Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Ghaleon on July 24, 2010, 04:31:33 AM
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Seems like most Touhou fans list Touhou fans as their #1 hate for Touhou. They say 90% of the fans are morons or whatever. I'm just curious, where exactly do they see this raging retardation? Is it in the fan-art? The awful porn? The fanfiction writers?
I generally stick to just playing the fangames, and chatting on this board (though I pop in DS and poosh occasionally, I use this one more than those two combined X4 though..or something). Either way, I don't really see a whole bunch of idiocy regarding the fans in Touhou (Except I found those awful masturbate signatures on DS to be really dumb, but whatever).
What/where is the fan-dumb? What are they guilty of? Why the Hatate, err hate?
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I don't see the "fandumb" as a group of people so much as a group of ideas. It's just an expression of weariness from hearing a set of memes too often. A lot of these memes die out, and are replaced by new ones. They exist in nearly every "fan" community in some form. As far as Touhou goes, I don't think it's that big a deal. I can't think of any memes that particularly infuriate me or something.
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For me, it's the fans that take it upon themselves to spread the obnoxious memes, the unneeded porn art, or the crazy IOSYS mixes that seem to be everywhere. These are the things that embody what I dislike about the fandom.
My friend always refers to Alice as "oh, that girl from Marisa Stole The Precious Thing". This doesn't drive me so crazy though because he's NOT a Touhou fan. If I heard someone who claims to be a Touhou fan say that though, I might just explode.
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Finally, a thread I can fully utilize my one specialty; hatred.
I can say that alot of the haterade comes from different sorts of in-jokes/memes from either the games or from various videos on the net, most of said jokes, while funny to the average newfag aren't really seen as funny by anyone else or rather THEY RUN IT INTO THE GOD DAMN GROUND to the point where it becomes so overdone that you can't stand to hear it mentioned, not even once (read: "CHEEEEEN!" or "Cirno is (9)"). Coincidentally, I didn't really know how annoying the CHEEEN sfx was until I heard it in a L4D mod....yeah, pretty sure, I'd get sick of that quick. Anyway, there's also alot of shit about so called "fans" depending heavily on the ascinine fanshit that comes out instead of holding any form of respect or regard for the canon that was already created. Why do you think only about a handful of people actually know what's canon in Touhou and what's not? Because none of them make the effort to to look into it, that's why.
I have zero faith in Touhou fandumb at this point, the shit they took on most characters pretty much ruined my views on them completely (Marisa and Wriggle especially). This is one of the reasons I'm glad I'm a PC98 fan, at least here, I don't have to worry about fans coming all up in here fucking shit up.
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Finally, a thread I can fully utilize my one specialty; hatred.
Hatred is what drives you? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DissidiaFinalFantasy)
Anyways, I've never disliked other Touhou fans, and I've never been over-annoyed by the spreading of memes.
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Same. A lot of it just loses any effect after repetition.
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I have never seen a fandom as schizophrenic (I use this term in jest, btw) as the Touhou fandom. The fans themselves accuse everyone else of being fan dumb, and it seems that no one realizes that they could change the shape of fanon by taking their creativity in their own hands and going out and DRAWING or WRITING or COMPOSING something, instead of letting others dictate it for them.
I mean, if you loathe something THAT much, then why wouldn't you go out and change it? Instead I hear complaints about how the Touhou fandom ruins Touhou, from the Touhou fandom itself, and it's perplexing at best, disappointing at worst.
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Same above.
Frankly, I haven't seen anywhere where people spout it like the vuvuzelas in the World Cup, and if it were annoying, there's always the nifty [X] button. Really.
The only touhou fan I'd hate is someone who'd stole and took credits for x. That's about it. The rest is people just being people. If your views are being mesmerized by others, then you don't have a solid view or are undefined on something, just like everything else in life.
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When a fan says CAVE games are 10x easier than Touhou ones, I kinda just zone out and ignore them. There was some random comment on a YouTube video where some dood said that Hibachi paled in comparison to Mokou or something. It got removed, but yeah, you can see where I'm going with this.
Also, the ones who download the games and OPENLY BRAG ABOUT THEM BEING FREEWARE. I'm pretty mild when it comes to pirating of games and music, but that's just stepping over the line.
Of course there are the meme-spouting ones and the ones who bastardize all our favorite characters and whatnot.
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I'm going to go with Ruro here and say its schizophrenia. The man behind the curtain is making memes and messing with the touhous, but no one can point to who's doing it. I guess for some people its the IOSYS or those that don't read the cannon or maybe its me that's the fan-dumb.
Anyways I am touhoufag.
Please hate me.
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Boo, I want more hate! You all are from mamby-pamby land or something.
I don't hate the fanbase myself, but I really got the impression the majority of you guys really had a beef with the fans. I mean I think it was obvious in the "what do you like about Touhou thread (I think it was that thread anyway).
Basically what it boils down to for most of you is tiresome memes? I honestly find that rather suprising because I honestly see more ⑨ jokes here than anywhere else, along with other similar lines.
I think the haters are just being shy, boo.
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"____ game is easier than Touhou", "____ looks like Touhou", "____ looks like Touhou on Easy mode". And the best part ? I recognize most of their names from DS.
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Part of it is people complaining about stuff they don't like. Part of it is complaining about stuff that is legitimately bad (and there's a lot of that). And some of it comes from the various people that insist that ZUNs original characters don't matter and that the characters are whatever you want them to be; which is fine if you're writing your own fan thing, but it's straight out trolling when people are trying to have a meaningful conversation about characters.
It doesn't help that the western fandom is on the low end of the totem poll, and at the mercy of several layers of other fans when it comes to content they receive. It's really easy to get worked up about things when offical manga is sitting untranslated when the latest "tsundere Alice" doujin gets done in a week, reasonable or no.
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When a fan says CAVE games are 10x easier than Touhou ones, I kinda just zone out and ignore them. There was some random comment on a YouTube video where some dood said that Hibachi paled in comparison to Mokou or something. It got removed, but yeah, you can see where I'm going with this.
Also, the ones who download the games and OPENLY BRAG ABOUT THEM BEING FREEWARE. I'm pretty mild when it comes to pirating of games and music, but that's just stepping over the line.
That would piss me off, though. Both of 'em.
The second one is less fan-stupidity than generic stupidity, though.
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Boo, I want more hate! You all are from mamby-pamby land or something.
Are you ready for a throwdown?
#1 - Jesus Christ on a Pogo stick, stop spewing memes without knowing what they goddamn mean. I've had quite enough of pathetic IOShit (no personal hate for miko or any of those folks though) and I've certainly had enough of people spewing the (9) meme like it was "so i herd u liek mudkipz," that is to say, completely unfounded and nonsensical and it doesn't make you cool at all. The only time I will accept meme usage is in satire, and even then, that's hard to come around nowadays! Also, Ghaleon, the people here who posted don't really spew ⑨ jokes very often at all, it's the other plethora of members that hang out in this very board that are guilty of it. I'm delving into Mode-style territory of posting here so I'll knock it off. It's a very BIG reason as to why I stray away from this godforsaken board on principle.
#2 - Power-level discussions. Why do people try to get others to take them so goddamn seriously if they don't even read on official material and don't bother paying attention to the canon? That's a ridiculous amount of stupid right there and it's just as bad that people are either taking their word for it or they're countering with their own bullcrap which has basically no evidence either. If I want to see a serious power-level discussion, I'll wait until the people who are discussing it are actually discussing it instead of throwing baseless interjections at one another and calling it a "power-level discussion." No. Just... No.
#3 - Re: Ruro - Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen until more people magically begin to think they're actually good at writing / drawing / composing and actually have something to show for it. Sadly, the more confident people don't have the bite to match their bark, and those that DO have potential don't see themselves as anything more than bad. It's a bloody shame, and it leads me to my next point - the problem lies in the fact the people themselves have taken to believing fanon and finding more credit in it more than canon. That is some backwards stupid-as-crap logic right there. Why the fuck do these fans take fanon as the real thing? It is not. They are FREE to believe in it and say it is what makes their favourite character or whatever their favourite, but I cannot stand that there ARE some people I know who take fanon as fact and completely and outrageously deny the truth of the canon. Can't canon and fanon co-exist peacefully? Are the fans THAT stupid?
#4 - Re: SUPREME★ボガス - Seconding the motion. We have a canon v. fanon schism, no? We also have a completely and utterly stupid and bullshit Touhou v. CAVE schism, too. My god, there are PEOPLE out there who like games from both Touhou and CAVE. Since this is about Touhou fandumb, I'll cover that side more than CAVE. These fans seem to think that CAVE games are completely boring, bland, and stupid because they've already been spoilt by the ridiculous amount of resources Touhou gives you and its extremely aesthetic bullet patterns and music. Well, look sir, Touhou isn't a goddamn arcade shmup that's designed to drain quarters out of you. It's the game that can AFFORD to be aesthetic, regardless of whether it's hard or not as it's a one-time purchase of the game! How the hell can you compare a game like that to a shmup that's quite obviously meant for commercial consumption? CAVE games are ARCADE shmups, therefore they are DESIGNED to be hard, difficult, and quarter-draining. Jesus Christ, you people, are you THAT narrow-minded? There are many people here that enjoy both Touhou and CAVE, is it that hard to be like them? it's so completely and utterly stupid. At least, CAVE fanboys even have the decency to say Touhou games aren't their cup of tea because there are too many trick attacks or it's too slow or whatever for them. It's an objective part of Touhou that they are criticizing. Touhou fanboys just say "LOL CAVE IS BORING AND SHITTY LOL" even without trying them, or even REFUSING to try them. ::)
#5 - Re: IcedFairy - Because I love ninja editing. You know, I've always wondered. There are people out there who are genuinely interested in seeing some meaningful Touhou media or manga or even doujins getting translated. But then they get sad as it never does get translated. Why? Because the translating groups are always having to resort to translating fluff doujins because that's what every other guy wants out their because they only care about their moe shit. It's just not fair, isn't it? There's a lot of official material out there that isn't translated, and this affects my 2nd point heavily because this means official material is less accessible to the Western Touhou fanbase! Sigh... Maybe I should get into this translating business. Argh.
Ultimately, I'd say most of the hate comes from generally HOW stupid these people actually are, and how their existence affects other more reasonable Touhou fans on a larger scale, and it's really very unsettling, not to mention completely moronic as it shouldn't even be this way in the first place. Dear lord, there is a REASON why I don't hang out here. Oh, and to the older members: Remember the Touhou Waifu thread?
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I find this forum is pretty bad for fandumb. There's a reason many people don't like Shrinemaiden, and I'm sure that's one of them. But really, the whole thing is very hypocritical; there's going to be fandumb everywhere, and it isn't like just because people go "yeah fuck those touhoufags they're ruining the series", they're automatically exempt from doing/being the same, nor are anyone else.
Go to Youtube? Fag.
Go to Walfas? Fag.
Go to MotK? Fag.
Go to Poosh? Fag.
Go to /jp/? Fag.
Go to /bun/? Fag.
Go to Danbooru? Fag.
Go to DS? Fag.
Go to LR? Fag.
Go to any other community that may briefly if ever talk about Touhou? Fag.
Go to any japanese communities/BBS/imageboards? hell no obviously you're a cool kid then right
Still, there's a lot of things that I would group as "fandumb", whether or not it has anything to do directly with fanon or memes. I would guess the idea for most people is basically "anything someone else does that has to do with Touhou that isn't something official, that pisses you off". I dunno.
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You can replace the word "fag" with "stupid" and still get a similar effect, for what it's worth.
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And stuff.
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/OwlBear1337/Screens/good_job.png)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Also, let's not forget about the "Everything is suddenly shit compared to Touhou." sorta deal. It's shit like this that makes me want to FIND the things that aren't so hot about Touhou and shove it down the gullet of the asshat who shat out such a complete load. Do they want extra bull with their shit? I think they do.
-See text below badass Shinki avatar to see what REALLY irks me about this fandumb...
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My primary issue is with the fans who disregard canon and focus entirely on fanon, bastardizing and lowering the complexity of the characters until they become bland, generic shells with the faces of their former selves. Tsundere Alice, psychotic Flandre...the list can go on, I'm sure.
To a lesser extent, many of the memes that get run into the ground harder than a tunnel-boring drill. I can't tell you how tired I am of seeing almost every single form of media involving Sakuya having at least 5 comments about pads.
Of course, it's not like I go into a blind rage about any of these, but I can't help but think: come on, can't we get away from this? Can't we pay attention to the source material and analyze the characters? Can't we have canon and fanon that compliment each other instead of one being a bastardization of the other?
But really, it's not like their ruining the series. ZUN does what he does because he loves doing it, and I doubt he's going to go the route of some general media and adjust the games because of the fanbase, so I don't think the fandumb is going to ruin Touhou.
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But really, it's not like their ruining the series. ZUN does what he does because he loves doing it, and I doubt he's going to go the route of some general media and adjust the games because of the fanbase, so I don't think the fandumb is going to ruin Touhou.
Good stuff.
But while fandumb probably won't ruin Touhou at its core, fandumb will ruin people.
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But while fandumb probably won't ruin Touhou at its core, fandumb will ruin people.
And it might ruin the experience of Touhou for people who try to get into it, and thus drive them away.
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Damn that's one angry whore.
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Damn that's one angry whore.
:blush:
I guess you could say I'm...
PMSing
Cue the shades?
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But really, it's not like their ruining the series. ZUN does what he does because he loves doing it, and I doubt he's going to go the route of some general media and adjust the games because of the fanbase, so I don't think the fandumb is going to ruin Touhou.
Maybe not to the point of threatening the series as a whole, but I'm sure ZUN is even slightly influenced by his fans. There's a reason why Cirno is starring in a game, and likely not just because ZUN likes her.
You can replace the word "fag" with "stupid" and still get a similar effect, for what it's worth.
Sorry if it sounds offensive or whatever. Just using what other people say.
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Maybe not to the point of threatening the series as a whole, but I'm sure ZUN is even slightly influenced by his fans. There's a reason why Cirno is starring in a game, and likely not just because ZUN likes her.
BUT IT'S SUMMER TIME AND SUMMER IS HOT.
So y'all need some Perfect Freeze in your life.
Sorry if it sounds offensive or whatever. Just using what other people say.
Nah, it's not that it's offensive or whatever, it's more the fact that you can pretty much substitute that for any insult relating to the fandom and still practically attain the same effect. That's how bad the fandom has degenerated to.
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Maybe not to the point of threatening the series as a whole, but I'm sure ZUN is even slightly influenced by his fans. There's a reason why Cirno is starring in a game, and likely not just because ZUN likes her.
Well, I'm not familiar with the background behind Shoot the Bullet and Double Spoiler. What reason did ZUN have for making Aya the main character in those games? It would likely be a similar reason for making Cirno the main character of this game.
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Well, I'm not familiar with the background behind Shoot the Bullet and Double Spoiler. What reason did ZUN have for making Aya the main character in those games? It would likely be a similar reason for making Cirno the main character of this game.
Supposedly he had ideas for a StB style game for a long time, but had no character t hat really fit the requirements to star in such a game. So he made Aya show up in PoFV as an introduction to the "picture taking girl", then StB was born.
Doesn't really apply for Cirno in this case IMO
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Supposedly he had ideas for a StB style game for a long time, but had no character t hat really fit the requirements to star in such a game. So he made Aya show up in PoFV as an introduction to the "picture taking girl", then StB was born.
Doesn't really apply for Cirno in this case IMO
....well, scratch that theory, then.
I'm still doubt that Cirno's case is a case of the fandom influencing his work, but I digress.
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Well, I'm not familiar with the background behind Shoot the Bullet and Double Spoiler. What reason did ZUN have for making Aya the main character in those games? It would likely be a similar reason for making Cirno the main character of this game.
I think ZUN just likes to come up with new game play mechanics. Regardless of Cirno's popularity she has ice powers.
Aya and Hatate take pictures; Momiji doesn't. I guess a game about freezing things could have used Letty, but shes not a fairy.
Anyways am I like the only person that refers to themselves as a Touhoufag outside of these here'em forums?
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I think ZUN just likes to come up with new game play mechanics. Regardless of Cirno's popularity she has ice powers.
Aya and Hatate take pictures; Momiji doesn't. I guess a game about freezing things could use have used Letty, but shes not a fairy.
Anyways am I like the only person that refers to themselves as a Touhoufag outside of these here'em forums?
I have a great distaste towards the word fag for some reason.. It doesn't really apply to me in any literal sense or whatever, I just hate it. To me it's about as polite as as a serious"fuck you". I thought about not saying it in the thread title actually but I heard the term so often, I figured I should leave it.
Other derogatory forms of the word gay don't seem to bother me as much though.
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Anyways am I like the only person that refers to themselves as a Touhoufag outside of these here'em forums?
I did it once. Then I felt funny and decided never to do it again.
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I'm not sure, but I think the whole concept of 'the game' started by either a touhou comic, or a rewrite of a touhou comic. probably just that one page though. also, advent cirno.
oh, and alot of the Mugen Touhou characters are either half-assed, completely made up, or unavailable. one of the biggest hate factors for me was the fact that some dick was stupid enough to fake a Satori Komeiji character as an april fools joke! RRRAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGEEEEEE!!!!!!!... Seriously, though. Other than that, the touhou fandom doesn't bother me.
what DOES bother me is that ZUN seems to have a complete refusal to involve any shota in Touhou whatsoever. I mean, there are plenty of loli's some are more pubescent than others, but their loli none the less. and the only men that ARE in Touhou are either really old (physically), some random pet, or the owner of a random shop!!!!!! I WANNA FIGHT A POWERFUL SHOTA DAMNIT! YOUKAI OR NOT!!!!!!!!!
okay... I'm done.
oh, you may have guessed, but yes I am a Satori Komeiji fan. But my name is also the name of one of my many characters, who is a Satori-like being from- well, that would be going off topic.
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Let's hate on ZUN because he wants to be consistent with his universe and the characters he creates.
Exemplary behavior from a fan right there. ::)
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oh, and alot of the Mugen Touhou characters are either half-assed, completely made up, or unavailable. one of the biggest hate factors for me was the fact that some dick was stupid enough to fake a Satori Komeiji character as an april fools joke! RRRAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGEEEEEE!!!!!!!... Seriously, though. Other than that, the touhou fandom doesn't bother me.
what DOES bother me is that ZUN seems to have a complete refusal to involve any shota in Touhou whatsoever. I mean, there are plenty of loli's some are more pubescent than others, but their loli none the less. and the only men that ARE in Touhou are either really old (physically), some random pet, or the owner of a random shop!!!!!! I WANNA FIGHT A POWERFUL SHOTA DAMNIT! YOUKAI OR NOT!!!!!!!!!
But my name is also the name of one of my many characters, who is a Satori-like being from- well, that would be going off topic.
And here we have a prime example. Jesus christ.
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it's not consistent it's just discriminatory gender focus. youkai are still youkai and humans are still humans even if they get all bigender on us. being consistent is the reason he doesn't bring more pc 98 characters back. being consistent is why the whole story doesn't collapse in on itself. being consistent has nothing to do with spamming an all female cast every game. in other words:
BEING CONSISTENT IS BEING CONSISTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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it's not consistent it's just discriminatory gender focus. youkai are still youkai and humans are still humans even if they get all bigender on us. being consistent is the reason he doesn't bring more pc 98 characters back. being consistent is why the whole story doesn't collapse in on itself. being consistent has nothing to do with spamming an all female cast every game. in other words:
BEING CONSISTENT IS BEING CONSISTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what the hell are you trying to say here? Yeah, consistent is being consistent.
ZUN has made the Touhou cast predominantly female and for the sake of consistency it's going to stay that way. I don't see what's so discriminatory about ZUN focusing more on the females - note that characters like Rinnosuke and Youki exist, so he hasn't completely ignored the male demographic in Gensokyo. Nor has he mentioned that males are inherently weak in Gensokyo. it's just unexplored. That doesn't imply anything discriminatory to me.
I'm surprised I even bothered to dignify that post with a response...
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At this point, it is definitely relevant. People shat their pants when they saw Unzan. Face it, a mainly female cast is one of the reasons Touhou is Touhou.
ALSO PUTTING PHRASES IN ALL CAPS AND OVERUSING EXCLAMATION MARKS MAKES ME MORE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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oh, and alot of the Mugen Touhou characters are either half-assed, completely made up, or unavailable. one of the biggest hate factors for me was the fact that some dick was stupid enough to fake a Satori Komeiji character as an april fools joke! RRRAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGEEEEEE!!!!!!!... Seriously, though. Other than that, the touhou fandom doesn't bother me.
what DOES bother me is that ZUN seems to have a complete refusal to involve any shota in Touhou whatsoever. I mean, there are plenty of loli's some are more pubescent than others, but their loli none the less. and the only men that ARE in Touhou are either really old (physically), some random pet, or the owner of a random shop!!!!!! I WANNA FIGHT A POWERFUL SHOTA DAMNIT! YOUKAI OR NOT!!!!!!!!!
Have you fought any of the other Touhou!Mugen Characters? Trust me, they are worth more than a punch to the monitor screen. From what I understand, the mugen community isn't to fond of them either, at least those who use traditional methods rather than the Touhou way of using spam to win (which to them comes off as increadibly cheap). I'm gonna say that a good number of them are fun to fight, but only if you know how to get past all the spam first.
The last part of your post reminds me I was supposed to be working on Shota Dragon project...oops.
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it's not consistent it's just discriminatory gender focus. youkai are still youkai and humans are still humans even if they get all bigender on us. being consistent is the reason he doesn't bring more pc 98 characters back. being consistent is why the whole story doesn't collapse in on itself. being consistent has nothing to do with spamming an all female cast every game. in other words:
BEING CONSISTENT IS BEING CONSISTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what
I'm really not sure what you were trying to say.
Face it, having a 99% female cast just makes Touhou Touhou. Asking to change that is like asking to change spellcard rules.
Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with having a 99% female cast. It gives me a ton of female characters that I'm genuinely interested in. Before Touhou, all my favorite characters were either male or androgynous: Pyramid Head, Cthulhu, Dante, Kefka, Exdeath, etc., etc.
But I'm going off-topic now, so I'll shut up.
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oh wow. a character with a name who owns a shop. I APOLOGIZE!!!! also: unexplored?! that's not a really good reason at all. If it's still unexplored, then EXPLORE IT! The only reason Rinnosuke and Youki exist is so that people don't say the things that I said. I'm talking about an important, not dead, in a touhou game, male character.(also, just because I type in all caps doesn't always mean I'm angry. It just means that that particular bit is a little 'louder' than the rest)
...fuck now people are going to percieve me as a whiny bitch like everyone else does... damn I gotta stop posting late at night.
also: I know aout the shota dragon project, but it's a shame its not canon.
and saying unzan was important is like saying that rinnosuke is important. face it, he isn't. (although unzan can fight with his big ass fists)
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that's not a really good reason at all. If it's still unexplored, then EXPLORE IT!
Who are you again to claim that Zun has to bow to the will of the fans?
Show some respect for his work instead of only complaining about the things you don't like. If Touhou doesn't appeal to you as it is, I don't know what you're doing here.
Zun will do what he wants with Touhou, because it's his creation. If he wants to listen to the fans, that's his choice, but he has no obligation to please their needs.
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Who are you again to claim that Zun has to bow to the will of the fans?
Show some respect for his work instead of only complaining about the things you don't like. If Touhou doesn't appeal to you as it is, I don't know what you're doing here.
Zun will do what he wants with Touhou, because it's his creation. If he wants to listen to the fans, that's his choice, but he has no obligation to please their needs.
Nah, I think he just likes Cirno a lot.
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I think Zun listens to his fans enough to manipulate him towards making his Cirno game, as a gradual process...Getting rid of total female domination in Touhou though would be a huge change in direction. It would likely piss off more fans than please IMO.
There are heaps of games with complete male dominance anyway, but nobody thinks twice about it. Granted most of those games don't have 1/4 of the cast size of Touhou, but still, people associated Touhou as a loli-only series long ago, and it has to stay that way to a certain extent, or else it just wont be Touhou anymore (most likely).
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oh wow. a character with a name who owns a shop. I APOLOGIZE!!!! also: unexplored?! that's not a really good reason at all. If it's still unexplored, then EXPLORE IT! The only reason Rinnosuke and Youki exist is so that people don't say the things that I said. I'm talking about an important, not dead, in a touhou game, male character.(also, just because I type in all caps doesn't always mean I'm angry. It just means that that particular bit is a little 'louder' than the rest)
Excuse me? Have you not read any official material at all?
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I think Zun listens to his fans enough to manipulate him towards making his Cirno game, as a gradual process...
I won't say he isn't influenced.
He surely is, as such is the nature of feedback someone gets on their work. And the fandom is, in a sense, a kind of feedback.
But people who seriously believe they can make demands to the creator, well, irk me.
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I won't say he isn't influenced.
He surely is, as such is the nature of feedback someone gets on their work. And the fandom is, in a sense, a kind of feedback.
But people who seriously believe they can make demands to the creator, well, irk me.
I can make them all I want, you can't stop me. Now expecting to be listened to, that's another story.
It is kinda wonky to assume ones own wishes represents the whole fanbase though IMO.
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Now expecting to be listened to, that's another story.
That's the part I meant, obviously.
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Usually this is precisely the kind of thing I am opposed to in forums, but...
<snip>
Ahaha, Oh wow.jpg
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Bravo, this is what I wake up to at 4 AM in the morning.
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Reading through this thread I kinda didn't wanna parttake in it but two things just stood out to me.
1. Why is Cirno in 12.8?
- It's simple. It's a game about the three fairy mangas. Sure, he could have made one of them, or all three of them playable, but considering he wanted to make bullet patterns for them, he needed someone on equal level to fight against them. Considering Cirno is A) a fairy and B) already connected with the other three fairys makes her quite an obvious choice.
2. Why no male bosses?
- Simple too, if you know that ZUN has a hard time writing songs for male characters. He stated this in Shuu Sou Gyokus music comments and probably elsewhere. Why should he make it harder upon himself, if he's just making the games because he likes to? Also, it's not like their will be many complaints about an all female cast.
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fyi we are all touhoufags
-fag is nothing negative, it just describes you belong to some kind of a group or do some activity
to quote ED:
A term of derision/endearment. your affiliation/location suffixed with "fag"; e.g. Macfag, Britfag, newfag, Scifag, etc.
memes can die
"touhou is harder than X" is good practice for rage control, it might also be a troll
no one realizes that they could change the shape of fanon by taking their creativity in their own hands and going out and DRAWING or WRITING or COMPOSING something
What about the untalented losers like me? :V
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The ethnicity of using the "-fag" suffix can be disputed, while most people who use it don't mean any harm it may be unintentionally offensive to certain people. Let us respect the wishes of these people.
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I have a great distaste towards the word fag for some reason.. It doesn't really apply to me in any literal sense or whatever, I just hate it. To me it's about as polite as as a serious"fuck you". I thought about not saying it in the thread title actually but I heard the term so often, I figured I should leave it.
I'm gay and I still call people fags, so take that as you will. I think its usage just changed over time, at least on the internet :derp:
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I think its usage just changed over time, at least on the internet :derp:
An insult has changed into such a commonly used term that noone cares anymore what it actually means. I think that say a lot about the level on which some parts of the net operate :/
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(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4483/haveafag.jpg)
:V
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An insult has changed into such a commonly used term that noone cares anymore what it actually means. I think that say a lot about the level on which some parts of the net operate :/
It actually means a cigarette.
See: Banana
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Fag, a junior boy who acts or acted as servant ("fagging") to a senior boy at a British independent school
the more you know
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I guess at this point, it would seem redundant to make this point, but the fan-dumb is really a part of all of us. We all have seen our fair share of memes being spurted out everywhere, and direct references being made where it barely makes logical sense, (mentioning Sakuya in that one knife throw kill video) and we've complained about them, however let's not forget that each and every last one of us have gone and thrown around a couple memes too. I mean, even if I absolutely despise the "PAD" jokes, (they're natural, dammit!) I know I've gone around yelling "You (9)!" somewhere. In the end, we are all hypocritical idiots. Regardless, Ruro had a point of just creating something of our own, if we didn't like the fan-dumb, like...
The last part of your post reminds me I was supposed to be working on Shota Dragon project...oops.
Wait, is that still alive? I drew one picture, look away, turns into a whole project, look away again, and I never see much of it again. :V
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Regardless, Ruro had a point of just creating something of our own, if we didn't like the fan-dumb, like...
To that I mention wise words from Banana:
What about the untalented losers like me? :V
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Well no one has to right to tell the creator of an universe what to do and also he's succeful(sp?) so there's no need to change. Each of his games bring whimsecal plot to meaningful ones. But I can't help but feel completely bother by a domanice(sp? ;O; Forgive my aweful spelling) of a certain gender.
::) Maybe it's me looking too much into things... But even despite all the characters (ignoring fandom) having complete balance within the World of Gensokyo, they are of course girls/eternal-youth-living women, thus sex objects as well ( ::) Again, I'm may be overlooking things and saying crap, please forgive me). That's why they're popular in the first place.... pro-male or pro-female there's almost no balance within the sex when a game/anime Universe (as I can say for some books as well).
:ohdear: I would really like there to be a fightable normal looking male (of course this will never happen unless X3 Rinnosuki comes and fight at least ONE mid-boss/Boss battle), maybe anime like and not Machosim.
I always hate when they make one gender pro-active... is bothersome. Touhou is somewhat an exception but nearly 40/50 females and 5 males doesn't sound at all nice DX.
:derp: that is all. Iamfail
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Regardless, Ruro had a point of just creating something of our own, if we didn't like the fan-dumb, like...
Wait, is that still alive? I drew one picture, look away, turns into a whole project, look away again, and I never see much of it again. :V
I dunno, I need someone to poke at me about it and I would have drawn sprites (even though I'm not too good at them). I place full blame on myself for not checking in on it more.
As far as creation goes, I do go out of my way to pull some quality fanstuff out of my head (notice it didn't come out my ass), sure it's not alot now, but I have plenty of ideas for what I plan to take on in the future. My rational side tells me this won't change a lick but I'm gonna do it anyway. As I said long ago in a thread I can't remember "It's a good thing I'm a writer/artist, otherwise I'd never find relief from all the shit Touhou fandumb throws at me."
I can easily say that if it wasn't for this sorta thing (and Shinki), I would have been cut my ties with Touhou (at least by this point). Oh and it's you guys too, for some reason, as much as I hate the Touhou fan community it's my buddies here that help me stay just a little longer.
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What about the untalented losers like me? :V
(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0874775132.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Read it, then get to scribblan!
As for the rest of the thread. I can agree that constant meme spewing like "Ha ha, old chap! Cirno a (9)" can get exasperating, along with some people constantly whining about Touhou being unplayable hard, but I've kinda learned how to ignore it. Besides, after playing Takkoman, not much can sway me from thinking the Touhou fanbase is actually one of the best ever.
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Every fanbase will have some good and some bad. The Touhou fanbase is huge, so it has more bad - but more good, too. It just depends on what side you look at.
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I think it's also important to keep in mind that to someone out there, YOU are the problem with the Touhou fanbase. Whatever games are your favorites, whatever characters you cherish, even if you forsake all the memes, someone in the Touhou fanbase is pointing at your preferences and saying "This is what's wrong with Touhou fans. People who like ____. These guys are ruining Touhou." I think that's something to keep in mind when it comes to pointing fingers at what's wrong with Touhou fans.
And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame. This doesn't give you a license to bitch and moan. You can change the fanbase by example. Stop using the memes, create more canonical discussion, or - and I know this is a crazy idea here - stop raging over memes maybe? If you think a meme is dumb, you don't need to use it. Focus instead on what you like. Latching onto what makes you rage is what's sucking your enjoyment out of Touhou; not "fandumb".
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I think it's also important to keep in mind that to someone out there, YOU are the problem with the Touhou fanbase. Whatever games are your favorites, whatever characters you cherish, even if you forsake all the memes, someone in the Touhou fanbase is pointing at your preferences and saying "This is what's wrong with Touhou fans. People who like ____. These guys are ruining Touhou." I think that's something to keep in mind when it comes to pointing fingers at what's wrong with Touhou fans.
And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame. This doesn't give you a license to bitch and moan. You can change the fanbase by example. Stop using the memes, create more canonical discussion, or - and I know this is a crazy idea here - stop raging over memes maybe? If you think a meme is dumb, you don't need to use it. Focus instead on what you like. Latching onto what makes you rage is what's sucking your enjoyment out of Touhou; not "fandumb".
Oh my god this is beautiful. Get into my thoughts and say them better than me more often.
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And to think today was the first time I actually whined about meme spam and I did so nowhere else. Not to mention I don't really spam Touhou memes at all unless it's me trying to make a point with satire or ad hominem kept in mind...
The irony is completely delicious. Really.
And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame. This doesn't give you a license to bitch and moan. You can change the fanbase by example.
Well said, if people actually bothered to follow people who showed example of good and reasonable behavior. Nah, "damn i sux at drawing" isn't really a good excuse for bitching and moaning, but it is undeniably a huge deterrent especially considering nobody ever bothers following example. In a world where everyone was reasonable and did what you said, I would never have felt like I was a worthless human being. Sadly, it doesn't work this way. It is really a shame. Oh well~ :)
EDIT: Ironically, following by example happens very often in the real world. But we don't have this particular issue in the real world. And more often than not people follow BAD examples because it's the cool and in thing to do. :)
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Trance, though, you make a lot of people happy on this board. Just being you has an influence.
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Latching onto what makes you rage is what's sucking your enjoyment out of Touhou; not "fandumb".
I love that line. Both paragraphs were pretty spot on and better written of what I was thinking, but that line is great. Those types are what annoys me the most. I mean when I was looking through comics and fan arts and stuff you see it all the time. People are generally quiet until a character/meme/etc shows up they don't like. It just blows my mind how they can stay quiet for like 50+ strips and as soon as one of the something shows up, sure enough within the first couple of comments there he is.
And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame.
I like this part too. I mean I can't write worth a damn, but it doesn't stop me. :V
I approach it like I do everything else in life. As long as its fun I'm going to keep doing it. It goes for everything in fandom. Even with a few bad commenters, looking at fan art and reading fan comics is still fun. And occasionally you will find an actual conversation about said work.
And isn't that the reason ZUN made these games in the first place. I read it off some site, so credibility is kind of low, but it sounds reasonable. But I read that there wasn't any games out there he liked so it took it upon himself to make one.
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People are generally quiet until a character/meme/etc shows up they don't like. It just blows my mind how they can stay quiet for like 50+ strips and as soon as one of the something shows up, sure enough within the first couple of comments there he is.
Have you ever thought about the possibility that perhaps these people were quiet because they were tolerating the existence of something they didn't like? Perhaps it was because they tried to ignore it, but because it became so prolific and widespread, it pushed them off the edge. It's not always like this situation... I only had a massive outburst earlier because someone provoked it. I don't regret it one bit, because I managed to release the feelings I have kept deep inside for the past two, three years.
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Damn, some in to edit my post and find an awesome piece of good internet writing. Good show!
And isn't that the reason ZUN made these games in the first place. I read it off some site, so credibility is kind of low, but it sounds reasonable. But I read that there wasn't any games out there he liked so it took it upon himself to make one.
I wouldn't be surprised. I started writing a fanfic (Not Touhou related) because there wasn't many that included a character I liked.
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stop raging over memes maybe? If you think a meme is dumb, you don't need to use it. Focus instead on what you like. Latching onto what makes you rage is what's sucking your enjoyment out of Touhou; not "fandumb".
I'm going to be honest with myself here; I really need to take a page from this. Just this right here.
It's going to be hard; not only because it's so widespread and a little hard to just ignore, but also because of my nature. I've always wondered how people can ignore the bullshit fanon likes to pump into Touhou alot, I just can't see how they can do it without wanting to utterly destroy the thing next to them in a vehemet fury. If I can figure that out for myself, then maybe I can go back to enjoying Touhou like I did long ago.
I won't forgive fanon for what it's done, but I can certainly try to forget it.
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I don't really mind the "fan dumb". Incidentally, it was the constantly circulating fan art and annoying music remixes that eventually led to me finding out about the the Touhou project. So I'm not going to complain.
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And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame.
I really, really don't like the implications of this. The truth is that the majority of people are idiots if you have taste that is not commonly supported by the fandom (and strangely "original flavor" is apparently a nieche taste in touhou), you are screwed. You can try to contribute something, but a lot of people lack the artistic skills to make something of noteworthy quality. Even if you are capable, that doesn't magically make you have to wade through less of the stuff you hate when you are looking for the stuff you like, as you won't influence alot of people that way. They have their own tastes, and trying to actively change this taste is just as futile as them trying to get you to change yours. The position is worsened by the fact that the main meat of contributors doesn't care for the output of the Western fandom.
For once, Bananamatic has made a valid point.
To clarify my own position I will simply refer to a long post I made a while (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5366.msg284806#msg284806) back in a topic that got locked very shortly after.
Bottomline:
I haet, but I don't try to raeg. I ignoar.
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I didn't mean it was a one contained incident. I meant like in a long running thing like Tag Dream, every single time this character showed up he followed right behind post his disdain for her. She doesn't show up for an arc or so and he's quiet. Then suddenly she appears, she doesn't really have to do anything, but he'll still make a rude remark.
I'm talking more about hatred for the characters than the memes or meme pushers. But it's not just Touhou, everywhere I go I see such intense hatred for these fictional characters. And it's not always shippers. And they're fictional characters, why do people get so worked up? It's great that something inspired so much passion, but why hate?
But the sad thing is, I think some of the hatred for these characters come from people over using thee memes. I've seen it happen a couple of times. Don't hate Sakuya, hate the morons who have be "witty" by commenting "HURF DURF looks like she has her PAD *KNIFE'D*" You can physically slug that guy, you can't physically slug Sakuya.
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It's going to be hard; not only because it's so widespread and a little hard to just ignore, but also because of my nature. I've always wondered how people can ignore the bullshit fanon likes to pump into Touhou alot, I just can't see how they can do it without wanting to utterly destroy the thing next to them in a vehemet fury. If I can figure that out for myself, then maybe I can go back to enjoying Touhou like I did long ago.
I think, for me anyway, part of it comes from just accepting the fact that in any given day in the Touhou-ish areas of the internet, you're going to run into a number of memes that you don't find enjoyable or interesting. Just accepting that this is going to happen, no matter what, I don't know, maybe that'll help? I'm just speaking from experience here, when the whole "aya = slut lol" thing was in full swing. I used to rage at it, and then I'd try the "calmly refute with canon" strategy. It happened anyway. So I just shrugged and said, "Screw it. Nothing I can do about it; might as well not fuel it with my rage, or let it get in the way of a series I enjoy."
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I'm talking more about hatred for the characters than the memes or meme pushers. But it's not just Touhou, everywhere I go I see such intense hatred for these fictional characters. And it's not always shippers. And they're fictional characters, why do people get so worked up? It's great that something inspired so much passion, but why hate?
Let me share a story with you: The reason why I dislike (to some people completely hate) Reimu. At least, the Windows incarnation of her. It is common knowledge that Reimu's role in the Touhou canon is to solve incidents, bust some caps and defeat herself some Youkai. This was evident in the PC-98 incarnation too. But what made the two Reimus different from one another? During the PC-98 era, Reimu seemed a lot more... cheery about what she did. While both Reimus didn't have many second thoughts about their line of work, the Windows one seemed far more... ruthless and, well, practically a bitch about it. I do not like Windows Reimu's personality very much. In fact, I despise people like that. This is why I channel my hate for such a person onto a fictional medium, because it's better than me actively seeking out a person like that and then mauling their face with a knife or a pair of scissors. Purvis told me that maybe it's because Windows Reimu got sick and tired of dealing with bullshit but that still doesn't justify her behavior to me.
People who don't like a character, regardless of whether it's a Touhou game or NOT (even in novels, you see people bitching about characters they don't like), will express their disdain in certain ways. In these cases, it happens to be a vehement hate that some people happen to find unsettling. I don't think these people should be lumped with the meme-spammers. They're from completely different sides of the spectrum.
I think, for me anyway, part of it comes from just accepting the fact that in any given day in the Touhou-ish areas of the internet, you're going to run into a number of memes that you don't find enjoyable or interesting.
I wish acceptance was that simple and easy for me. I'm a pretty spiteful person.
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I think, for me anyway, part of it comes from just accepting the fact that in any given day in the Touhou-ish areas of the internet, you're going to run into a number of memes that you don't find enjoyable or interesting. Just accepting that this is going to happen, no matter what, I don't know, maybe that'll help? I'm just speaking from experience here, when the whole "aya = slut lol" thing was in full swing. I used to rage at it, and then I'd try the "calmly refute with canon" strategy. It happened anyway. So I just shrugged and said, "Screw it. Nothing I can do about it; might as well not fuel it with my rage, or let it get in the way of a series I enjoy."
I wish acceptance was that simple and easy for me. I'm a pretty spiteful person.
Still, I'm going to try. Being a Shinkifag and getting the usual "PC-98 is dead" flak among other shit, doesn't seem to phase me anymore, so maybe it's not totally hopeless for me yet. We'll see...
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Still, I'm going to try. Being a Shinkifag and getting the usual "PC-98 is dead" flak among other shit, doesn't seem to phase me anymore, so maybe it's not totally hopeless for me yet. We'll see...
Probably not. I know I'm beyond repair, as I still rage about people that don't exist anymore - I used to receive a lot of flak for being a PC-98 purist. Not as much anymore, but I'd still bitch about it from time to time. I guess I can never really deal with these things, and it leads to my biased responses in this thread...
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I really, really don't like the implications of this. The truth is that the majority of people are idiots if you have taste that is not commonly supported by the fandom (and strangely "original flavor" is apparently a nieche taste in touhou), you are screwed.
And I really don't like the implications of this. Really, I think it's quite a bad excuse to not even try. There's a good deal of Western artist that have different styles as you say, but they can still find people who like their work. Doyora's a damn good example of just that, and I doubt Ragathol's style of drawing bares much similarity to Japanese works. Those two are quite popular, not because they pandered to people who like Japanese stuff only, but because they kept pumping out work.
You can try to contribute something, but a lot of people lack the artistic skills to make something of noteworthy quality.
Then they should learn how to draw better? I do realize that improving one?s artwork is a long and frustrating trek (One I?m in the middle of right now), but anybody can do it as long as they keep themselves motivated. Even then, one?s artwork doesn?t need to be realistic and mechanically perfect to be likable. Take cookie for example, his figures are far from what can be considered ?correct human anatomy?, but his drawings are filled with so much life, charm and humor that they become outright lovable. You never know what kind of audience you can grab if you just try.
Even if you are capable, that doesn't magically make you have to wade through less of the stuff you hate when you are looking for the stuff you like, as you won't influence alot of people that way. They have their own tastes, and trying to actively change this taste is just as futile as them trying to get you to change yours.
As rude as this may sound: Welcome to the Internet! 90% of it is shit, here?s a shovel!
People wade through figurative mountains of shit all the time. That?s how people fin good stuff to begin with. This paragraph really reminds me of some users on 4chan?s /m/. They whine and bitch endlessly about how every show coming out recent is ?moeshit? then proudly admit that they don?t watch ANY new anime that comes out, and thus missing actually good shows. Hell, wading through shit is how I found Ennui Akadako?s Touhou comics, and they remain my absolute favorites.
The position is worsened by the fact that the main meat of contributors doesn't care for the output of the Western fandom.
I dunno about that, I here a good deal of positives about Western Touhou art. Hell, I get a good deal of positive comment on my scribbles as well, and I think most of it is poor (I?m my own worst critic and such). If you?re talking about the poor reception of Another Dream?that?s because that collection is indeed rather poor. If it was a Japanese comic, it?d still be considered poor. Then again, I have seen truckloads of Touhou art that can?t even be considered DevArt level on Danbooru?
My point is, if you don?t want to draw or write anything, that?s okay. Not everybody WANTS to draw and I have no problem with that. But the excuses you use here are just weak.
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You didn't read the post I linked to, did you?
And I really don't like the implications of this. Really, I think it's quite a bad excuse to not even try. There's a good deal of Western artist that have different styles as you say, but they can still find people who like their work. Doyora's a damn good example of just that, and I doubt Ragathol's style of drawing bares much similarity to Japanese works. Those two are quite popular, not because they pandered to people who like Japanese stuff only, but because they kept pumping out work.
So you think Ragathol and Doyora make bad work? No? Then read my post again.
Then they should learn how to draw better? I do realize that improving one?s artwork is a long and frustrating trek (One I?m in the middle of right now), but anybody can do it as long as they keep themselves motivated. Even then, one?s artwork doesn?t need to be realistic and mechanically perfect to be likable. Take cookie for example, his figures are far from what can be considered ?correct human anatomy?, but his drawings are filled with so much life, charm and humor that they become outright lovable. You never know what kind of audience you can grab if you just try.
There are people who are much worse than that.
Also, you say yourself that you don't like the stuff you make. Yet you say that me trying to make stuff I like and failing would somehow increase the amount of stuff I like. If you do not mean to say this, then you misread my post.
As rude as this may sound: Welcome to the Internet! 90% of it is shit, here?s a shovel!
Way to be treat me as if I didn't know that even if that is precisely the point I was making. Why are we arguing?
People wade through figurative mountains of shit all the time. That?s how people fin good stuff to begin with. This paragraph really reminds me of some users on 4chan?s /m/. They whine and bitch endlessly about how every show coming out recent is ?moeshit? then proudly admit that they don?t watch ANY new anime that comes out, and thus missing actually good shows. Hell, wading through shit is how I found Ennui Akadako?s Touhou comics, and they remain my absolute favorites.
My whole position is that you need to accept (and stop ranting on) the fact that there is lots of stuff you hate.
I dunno about that, I here a good deal of positives about Western Touhou art. Hell, I get a good deal of positive comment on my scribbles as well, and I think most of it is poor (I?m my own worst critic and such). If you?re talking about the poor reception of Another Dream?that?s because that collection is indeed rather poor. If it was a Japanese comic, it?d still be considered poor. Then again, I have seen truckloads of Touhou art that can?t even be considered DevArt level on Danbooru?
Do these works have a major influence on the japanese touhou community? As far as I know, they don't.
My point is, if you don?t want to draw or write anything, that?s okay. Not everybody WANTS to draw and I have no problem with that.
Yet another point we can agree on.
But the excuses you use here are just weak.
Excuses for what?
Even if every person was capable of creating high-quality artwork, which seems to be the only point we disagree on, that still wouldn't adress my main point.
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I think it depends on how much they want to participate.
This summer, I started learning the piano for the sole purpose of arranging Touhou songs in such a way as to bring out my views of the character's personalities. I would stay at the piano for hours and hours every day, and it was a pain in the ass, but after two or three weeks I got good enough to arrange and play U.N. Owen Was Her?. After some more perseverance, I got down Onigashima of the Fairyland, even though I still mess up on it sometimes. Then I completed Doll Judgement, and now I'm working on Green Eyed Jealousy.
If you take a page from ZUN's book and do whatever you do for the love of it, then you'll be able to learn how to draw, or write fanfiction, or play the music. It all depends on how much you want to participate to the fandom. Maybe it won't have a major impact on the fandom, but someone, somewhere, will notice it and get other people to notice it, and maybe, just maybe, it'll slowly have an effect.
....sorry if that was convoluted. Lack of sleep.
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I'm not sure if this is what your trying to state Iryan, but producing content isn't likely to change the fanbase, even if it's good content. For example, ZUN himself couldn't break the Alice is a loser who has no friends meme, even after giving her the three fairies as friends. From a changing the fanbase perspective, it doesn't matter if people look at your works, or even if they enjoy it, if it doesn't change what they produce. For those of us on the western side it's even less likely our stuff will influence the fandom, as it has to get to Japan and get accepted there (something that will probably never happen with stuff like my writing).
I got into writing fiction in order to change the fanbase, but I've given up on that. Now I'm just writing for fun and with the hope I'll change the minds of a few people. That's enough for me.
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I'm not sure if this is what your trying to state Iryan, but producing content isn't likely to change the fanbase, even if it's good content. For example, ZUN himself couldn't break the Alice is a loser who has no friends meme, even after giving her the three fairies as friends. From a changing the fanbase perspective, it doesn't matter if people look at your works, or even if they enjoy it, if it doesn't change what they produce. For those of us on the western side it's even less likely our stuff will influence the fandom, as it has to get to Japan and get accepted there (something that will probably never happen with stuff like my writing).
Exactly, thank you.
The one thing I disliked about Ammy's post was the (probably unintentional) implication that one can simply make his own stuff if one doesn't like the rest, and the problem will be solved.
For example, if there is a game series you like, but then the license is passed to another company, which then produces stuff I don't like, would I be expected to make my own game? No, I would not. Yes, this is pretty much what ZUN is doing, but most people aren't ZUN. :derp:
And again, I am not saying that this makes it okay to flame the people who make the stuff you don't like or something, quite the opposite in fact.
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You didn't read the post I linked to, did you?
I did, though after I posted earlier, and I liked it alot. I thought it wa a very good explanation why many fanworks tick some people off.
So you think Ragathol and Doyora make bad work? No? Then read my post again.
And here we have the disconnect. I was mainly referring to how they draw the characters visually, not their written personalities. Even with Japanese artist, almost none of them draw the girls like ZUN does. That's what I picked up from you previous post, and why I responded the way I did. I tend to get overly passionate on the art subject and I started typing before I really thought it through. I responded to Bananmatic the same way.
There are people who are much worse than that.
Also, you say yourself that you don't like the stuff you make. Yet you say that me trying to make stuff I like and failing would somehow increase the amount of stuff I like. If you do not mean to say this, then you misread my post.
I really could have worded that better. What I meant was that as an artist, I?m never completely satisfied with what I draw. More than a few artists are like that. There are a good deal of drawings I?ve made that I actually like, though I?ll rarely admit it. It?s less of a case of ?everything I do sucks? and more ?this can be a bit better?, If that makes any sense.
Do these works have a major influence on the japanese touhou community? As far as I know, they don't.
?Yukkuri Shiteitte Ne!? started as a set of ASCII pictures. Anything is possible.
Way to be treat me as if I didn't know that even if that is precisely the point I was making. Why are we arguing?
Because I?m apparently wearing the idiot cap today, and by golly I?m going to live up to what it implies!
But joking aside, I do have to apologize for jumping the gun like that. The art subject was something I?m passionate about and I ended up going off without really reading through the whole post.
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I'm a Touhoufag
I'm addicted to the series, not the fanbase.
Seems like most Touhou fans list Touhou fans as their #1 hate for Touhou. They say 90% of the fans are morons or whatever. I'm just curious, where exactly do they see this raging retardation? Is it in the fan-art? The awful porn? The fanfiction writers?
I generally stick to just playing the fangames, and chatting on this board (though I pop in DS and poosh occasionally, I use this one more than those two combined X4 though..or something). Either way, I don't really see a whole bunch of idiocy regarding the fans in Touhou (Except I found those awful masturbate signatures on DS to be really dumb, but whatever).
What/where is the fan-dumb? What are they guilty of? Why the Hatate, err hate?
The porn is good, err, decent
Fan Fiction? Don't read it
The games? They're good, nostalgic and a total kick to the behind if you're new to shmups
The music? Splendid
The characters? Very deep and well-designed
99% female cast? Begging for Yuri, hence the shitload of porn.
But, that's all trivial.
Dedication of the fanbase to their series. Yes. All those Touhou arranges, all those Touhou drama CD's (fan fiction) all that Doujinshi, all that derivative content of Touhou.
There's always something for us, whether if it's the games of not. I am quite fortunate to have become tied to such a wonderful series. I've never seen such a fanbase so dedicated. I never cease to be amazed.
So haters? They're just jealous.
Haters hate Touhou most of the time because they don't know it well or because they've been exposed to it incorrectly. What are you going to do? It happens... *sigh*
Same with every other series.
"Oh, I thought Touhou was an eroge the first time I heard about it"
"Touhoufags get all anal when you ask them if it's an Anime"
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I'm a Touhoufag
I'm addicted to the series, not the fanbase.The porn is good, err, decent
Fan Fiction? Don't read it
The games? They're good, nostalgic and a total kick to the behind if you're new to shmups
The music? Splendid
The characters? Very deep and well-designed
99% female cast? Begging for Yuri, hence the shitload of porn.
But, that's all trivial.
Dedication of the fanbase to their series. Yes. All those Touhou arranges, all those Touhou drama CD's (fan fiction) all that Doujinshi, all that derivative content of Touhou.
There's always something for us, whether if it's the games of not. I am quite fortunate to have become tied to such a wonderful series. I've never seen such a fanbase so dedicated. I never cease to be amazed.
So haters? They're just jealous.
Haters hate Touhou most of the time because they don't know it well or because they've been exposed to it incorrectly. What are you going to do? It happens... *sigh*
Same with every other series.
"Oh, I thought Touhou was an eroge the first time I heard about it"
"Touhoufags get all anal when you ask them if it's an Anime"
*applause*
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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I wasn't implying 'just make something, problem solved' at all. I was pointing out a number of things to consider. First, that there are people out there who think your tastes are what is wrong with the fandom, so try to accept that tastes vary. Second, that raging or complaining won't change anything, but not using tired memes, adding good discussion, and also, yes, creating are good ways to do your part if you want to see change; by being that change. And lastly, that shifting your focus from your dislikes to your likes also helps.
There's no one answer, just lots of little ones. Hope you understand my point better now.
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<----Ain't gotta be an artist to alter people's viewpoints.
(Also Tsundere Aliace has some canon support. IN stage one, she's got it or something like it pretty good. You just gotta remind people she also tells Marisa to say "Bitch get of the way!" and has +5 Shitkickers of Annihilation and stuff)
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oh wow. a character with a name who owns a shop. I APOLOGIZE!!!! also: unexplored?! that's not a really good reason at all. If it's still unexplored, then EXPLORE IT! The only reason Rinnosuke and Youki exist is so that people don't say the things that I said. I'm talking about an important, not dead, in a touhou game, male character.(also, just because I type in all caps doesn't always mean I'm angry. It just means that that particular bit is a little 'louder' than the rest)
...fuck now people are going to percieve me as a whiny bitch like everyone else does... damn I gotta stop posting late at night.
also: I know aout the shota dragon project, but it's a shame its not canon.
and saying unzan was important is like saying that rinnosuke is important. face it, he isn't. (although unzan can fight with his big ass fists)
fuckshitpissballs
Also, I do get what Green is saying, but it isn't like everyone who hates Touhou is hating it for a wrong reason, and to say they're all "jealous" is pretty conceited. Touhou isn't some perfect series that everyone should love, there are many, many legitimate reasons to not want to be a part of it. Especially "being exposed to it incorrectly". If people get annoyed by Touhou because of how much it get spammed on unrelated things by "touhoufags" (which it does, a hell of a lot), I sure as hell would get annoyed by it too and not want anything to do with it.
Touhou seems to be that kind of series where it brings the most pushiness out of its fans that I have ever seen.
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Let me share a story with you: The reason why I dislike (to some people completely hate) Reimu. At least, the Windows incarnation of her. It is common knowledge that Reimu's role in the Touhou canon is to solve incidents, bust some caps and defeat herself some Youkai. This was evident in the PC-98 incarnation too. But what made the two Reimus different from one another? During the PC-98 era, Reimu seemed a lot more... cheery about what she did. While both Reimus didn't have many second thoughts about their line of work, the Windows one seemed far more... ruthless and, well, practically a bitch about it. I do not like Windows Reimu's personality very much. In fact, I despise people like that.
I haven't played the PC-98 games, so I can't comment on that version of Reimu, but I can definitely see what you mean (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3369/plundering.png) about the Windows version.
Personally, I try to look for the good in both sides of the equation. While canon material is the basis for general information about a series, fanon material can sometimes expose possibilities for why the canon material is the way it is. Sure, there are some memes and things I could live without, but for the most part, I enjoy how the fandom explores the given canon material.
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(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1614/creepyfucks.png)
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Okay, so I realize that a lot of this has already been stated in various different ways by various different people, but I figured I'd throw my own take in.
From the outside looking in EVERYONE in the Touhou fanbase is the fandumb, because Touhou tends to be linked in many people's minds with pedophilia and blind arrogance. But then again, the same can be said for people's opinions of all kinds of series, just replace the word 'pedophilia' with something else derogatory.
From inside the fanbase itself, the fandumb can't really be nailed down to one specific archetype because it really tends to come down to taste. If there's a meme you don't like then people who use it are part of the fandumb. If there's a band you don't like then people who listen to them are part of the fandumb. If there's a character you don't like then people who like that character are part of the fandumb. Therefore, by being a part of the fanbase you are part of the fandumb, QED. Like Tengukami said, there will always be someone who thinks YOU are what's wrong with Touhou. I don't like the fact that that's how it tends to be, but you'd be hard pressed to find any fandom where it isn't. This is the internet.
However, Tengukami also makes another excellent point that we should focus more on what we like rather than what we don't. I can't stand the Aya is a slut meme, or the Ran is an exhibitionist meme, or the insert a Touhou character on a muscle bound man meme either, but it takes a lot less effort to roll your eyes and stop reading/watching than it does to yell at the people involved for doing something they enjoy that you don't agree with. I do, however, find memes like Cirno's strongest, caramelldansen, and cheeen! to be hilarious and I don't like being considered an idiot for using them, just like people who like memes I don't wouldn't appreciate me coming into their threads/videos/whatever and flaming them for liking what they like.. After all, rage can only beget more rage. When you yell at someone you put them on the defensive and it's almost guaranteed they will yell back at you. Repeat into infinity.
The only thing that really bugs me is a see a lot of posts saying 'why can't fanon and canon coexist' but also complaining about how fanon isn't canon enough. Tolerance isn't a one-way street. Personally I enjoy both fanon and canon and I think it wouldn't be any fun if both were the same. They're two completely different worlds to explore in the same series and I think that's part of what makes Touhou so great.
Although, who knows, maybe I'm just blowing hot air. It's always possible that I'm the fandumb.
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Eh, I think it's more of "people act as though fanon can substitute canon entirely in a given situation, repeatedly argue using fanon as basis while ignoring canon elements, argue fanon as though it were a canonical concept, etc" rather than "fanon isn't canon enough" or whatever, if that's what you mean. But yes to everything else.
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I've been reading through this, and well, most of the whole meme thing hasn't bothered me as much. The only thing that really bugged me was that whole Alice anal seepage thing. Never understood that.
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I've been reading through this, and well, most of the whole meme thing hasn't bothered me as much. The only thing that really bugged me was that whole Alice anal seepage thing. Never understood that.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that one. It seems that it's one of those memes you (thankfully) don't hear about anymore and/or fell out of style.
So, so many more to go, though...
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comic edit, forced meme, caught on to new people thinking it was truly a meme like every other forced meme out there
Not many people even talk about that nowadays.
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I do not know and I do not want to know.
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comic edit, forced meme, caught on to new people thinking it was truly a meme like every other forced meme out there
Not many people even talk about that nowadays.
Isn't everything said to be a forced meme know?
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People do tend to say any meme they don't like is forced. Whether they are or not is something else. Aya having pointy ears was unforced, but that died quickly. Sanae being a good girl wasn't forced, but gave way to her being a slut, which was forced. Youmu being soft, Yuyuko being a ravenous eating machine, Marisa having a harem, ⑨, Koishi liking phallic objects, Pads, were never forced.
What is forced and not forced in my opinion just tends to be how easily the fandom accepts the idea.
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All memes are forced. It's the very nature of memes for people to deliberately and repeatedly use them. That's how they spread.
Memes happen. No point in raging about them.
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I mentioned Touhou outside this forum, so I may as well resign myself to being labeled a part of the fandumb.
As far as most people are concerned that's as much as matters.
That was easy.
Generally speaking the people who comprise the "bad segment" of the Touhoummunity are the same sorts of people I wouldn't speak to for more than ten seconds if they were fans of anything else anyway. Dregs are dregs; it's just the subject that changes.
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Eh, I think it's more of "people act as though fanon can substitute canon entirely in a given situation, repeatedly argue using fanon as basis while ignoring canon elements, argue fanon as though it were a canonical concept, etc" rather than "fanon isn't canon enough" or whatever, if that's what you mean. But yes to everything else.
This is entirely what I was trying to say with why I find people who worship fanon to be completely ridiculous.
Because they're basically taking as true a fan's interpretation of a certain thing or character as true while completely dismissing the source material. It makes no sense :/
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Seems like most Touhou fans list Touhou fans as their #1 hate for Touhou. They say 90% of the fans are morons or whatever. I'm just curious, where exactly do they see this raging retardation? Is it in the fan-art? The awful porn? The fanfiction writers?
I generally stick to just playing the fangames, and chatting on this board (though I pop in DS and poosh occasionally, I use this one more than those two combined X4 though..or something). Either way, I don't really see a whole bunch of idiocy regarding the fans in Touhou (Except I found those awful masturbate signatures on DS to be really dumb, but whatever).
What/where is the fan-dumb? What are they guilty of? Why the Hatate, err hate?
The horrible memes. I know, already been mentioned, but I'm just adding my spit to the jar, err adding my two cents...
Also, the "war" between "real" Touhou fan and "casual" Touhou fans.
Or better known as, people who actually play the series versus those who just watch the PV's and read the Doujins. =/
People who consider themselves more of a "fan" than others, I guess.
A while back, there was a thread in MoTK where the OP asked "What is a Touhou fan" and this sort of ties in with that.
Honestly, I don't believe a lot of Touhou fans are dumb. If anything, Touhou really doesn't have so many fans as compared to other series. And I do get the vibe that a lot of prejudice is towards American English-speaking fans, not all fans (Excluding Japanese)
So you might ask "why?"
Well, I've heard a lot of "because they're shitting the fandom"
My response is: "Why do you even care? Zun sure as hell doesn't."
The point is, okay, so you might hate Touhou fans. Why, though? There's no reason. There's idiots in every fandom, so?
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yeah... about what I said back there... I can be kind of an ass when I post at around 2 am :V
all I really meant was that it would be a great twist if we see a shota in a game for once instead. it would be all like
reimu: um... why are you dressed like that, that's a boys outfit.
shota character: *anger face* that's because I AM a boy!
reimu: *shock*
*insert rest of the dialogue here*
or something. and it would be cool. what would be funny is if one of the characters said to themselves "aw I can't fight a boy, its unethical. oh well, looks like I have no choice". it would be hillariously ironic.
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I don't see fanon overriding canon in other fandoms. Maybe this is just my opinion alone, but I think the fanon vs. canon thing is one of the aspects that makes Touhou what it is.
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you know, as long as the fanon isn't too farfetched. I just think of it as 'a day in the life'. when it comes to comic edits. if its funny, lol. if not, oh well hey, that rhymes!
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Fanon never really OVERRIDES canon, even if it seems like it's more popular sometimes. I think the reason it seems to be so much more prevalent in the Touhou series is because there are so many characters that have only shown up once or twice so fans of those characters make stuff up. I've seen it happen with other series where a popular character stops showing up in the games. But I do agree, the fanon and canon are both vital parts of the series.
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Fanon never really OVERRIDES canon, even if it seems like it's more popular sometimes. I think the reason it seems to be so much more prevalent in the Touhou series is because there are so many characters that have only shown up once or twice so fans of those characters make stuff up. I've seen it happen with other series where a popular character stops showing up in the games. But I do agree, the fanon and canon are both vital parts of the series.
It doesn't and it should never override canon.
But there are people who treat it as such ANYWAY, and that's what makes me angry.
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Why? It doesn't change what's true about Touhou for you. They can't make you change your mind, and most of them probably aren't even trying to. We each enjoy the series differently. If you think they're too loud about their POV, well, I'd suggest either not engaging or just ignore it altogether. Actively ignore it long enough, it becomes background noise that barely registers.
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I do have to admit that during the CNN incident, I felt like getting a frying pan and smacking some posters across the face. =/
But we have to acknowledge that they're less than 0.1% of the entire fandom...
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Actively ignore it long enough, it becomes background noise that barely registers.
this is why i don't hang around TARC or I'd explode even more than this
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When I read the last few posts, I can't help but to wonder if it's similar to what one of my friends had to deal with once. Basically, he and someone else were discussing a subject, but random person C kept in interrupting and butting in saying how he felt and was forcing friend and other person to believe to answer was was random person C though and wouldn't drop it. Friend and other person just dropped the subject altogether since they couldn't get a word in without random person C being an asshole. Kinda gettin' that vibe here for some reason, although you can't really speak louder in a forum to override someone like you can IRL.
I'm the only person in my nieghborhood that knows about much about Touhou.
yeah... about what I said back there... I can be kind of an ass when I post at around 2 am :V
all I really meant was that it would be a great twist if we see a shota in a game for once instead. it would be all like
reimu: um... why are you dressed like that, that's a boys outfit.
shota character: *anger face* that's because I AM a boy!
reimu: *shock*
*insert rest of the dialogue here*
or something. and it would be cool. what would be funny is if one of the characters said to themselves "aw I can't fight a boy, its unethical. oh well, looks like I have no choice". it would be hillariously ironic.
Why don't you give that a spin in damakufu?
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I plan to eventually. It would just be much cooler to see it in a canon game.
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Since this kind of morphed into a topic about meme's somewhat.. What memes do people LIKE?
I personally like ones involving Reimu's armpits. I never really had an armpit fetish, but <3...I'm not even sure if that can be considered a meme though. I also think the whole 'haters gonna Hatate" thing is cute (funny isn't really the case though). Though I don't know how much I would use it personally.
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Minoriko Pees Wine
That's the only meme I like because it makes sense =/
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some of that people who are the "fandump" are the people who like the thing a season, but forget soon. Another ones stay more and turn into permanent fandump. or research about their object of adoration and turn into a fan normal...and after a true fan.
The bad thing of the memes is who turn all so bored and no offer originallity...not are you bored of, for example,the thing about psycho Flandre, pimp Marisa, Tsundere-Yandere Alice, the MANNOSUKE (XD) etc? i think who the meme is a kind of point of understanding, but an abuse of that can be bad...specially for ones who do doujins. Some of them simply are all the same...and no offer a new twist. But the memes have a short time of life; when the generation of fans who created that idea changed to other things, the next one, when see the meme, no understand nothing about that, and lost the meaning.
My fab meme? "all in Gensokyo is gay" (apart to my personal fujoshi preferences...(and im not a rabid fangirl)) because have lot of implicances, first lot of fanboys begin to fantasy about that...but forget the males.And then remember Rinnosuke. Then say who he is too, But who is sad for be the only male. The yuri fans NO WANT EVEN IMAGINE who Rinnosuke can have a male lover in this "paradise" full of lesbi girls, even if they no will appear in the hipotetical doujin. the funny thing? even the potencial here, yaoi fangirls no touch Touhou. that make me laught, make me think,make me draw, and make me sad.
(thinking no take so serious only a reflection) more correct is say "in Gensokyo, probably more people is gay than the real world" (Youkai are spirits and then no have an especial gender preference (bisexual we can say, but probably pansexual, same with the yousei, who are so free too) humans are (for biology) hetero, but for origin fluctuates sometimes in the homo or bi; Ghosts no can have sex because are only spirit, but can feel atracted for another soul; demons are bi (hermaprodites? succubus- incubbus are more especific in their genders...but this race trick human desires) half ones are "more bi" than a normal human (if youkai are bi, and human is neutral...a hanyou, a half ghost, a half hakutaku is in the middle, more open in their preferences) etc.
im almost tempted to put some of my you-know-about draws in pixiv(i have an account who i use only for lurk) but after think who i can awake an horrid monster...some fangirls are things to fear (the 801 monster is for something! im afraid)
Sorry for be like this. i like Touhou for the music and the world where all happen. Give you moments of dream a magical world for a time and forget your daily problems...the charas are lovable too.
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I don't mind when a person treats fanon as canon, after all, it's their intepretation. But don't expect to come out on top when you force your "facts" upon other people. Also, telling people that Touhou is a game, not an anime is fine. Yelling/swearing/selling your soul for revenge at the person who ask "What anime is this song from." is overreacting and idiotic. Swearing profusely at someone doesn't exactly make them understand better than just talking calmly. maybe it does...
I'll see what else I can add later.
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Since this kind of morphed into a topic about meme's somewhat.. What memes do people LIKE?
I personally like ones involving Reimu's armpits. I never really had an armpit fetish, but <3...I'm not even sure if that can be considered a meme though. I also think the whole 'haters gonna Hatate" thing is cute (funny isn't really the case though). Though I don't know how much I would use it personally.
Memes usually only take off if they're clever or scandalous. (or just meaningless but repeated so often that other people start doing it too)
I personally don't mind memes of any type as long as they STAY clever; i.e. they're not causelessly spouted by idiots.
Actually, I like creating my own memes. *credits self with helping start Koishi+Embers of Love, for better or worse*
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I like pretty much all Touhou memes as long as they somewhat make sense. The only memes I don't like are sexually based ones (Ran is an exhibitionist, Aya is a slut, etc although I don't mind the Sakuya pad meme) and the ones involving putting Touhou characters on top of muscley men (Be they the girls or even Rinnosuke).
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I like Guncannon Kanako and CAPTAIN MINAMITSU MOTHERFUCKING MURASA! Also China's JAAAAAAOOOOOOO, which is weird since it's spouted off as much as PAD *KNIFE'D* and others, but I'm tired of it.
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Sick and tired of the goddamn PAD meme. FFS! It's not like ZUN can actually draw that well to begin with, when you suddenly hand the art responsibility over to Alphes, what do you expect? Of course Sakuya's gonna spontaneously grow some breasts.
And even if that weren't the case, who's to say she didn't just develop a little more? Eh? Piss off with your PADs.
Also, Cirno being retarded to the point of crippling inability is straight up and down stupid. Leave the poor girl alone.
Ironically enough, despite my defending these (and a few other) of the girls' competence, I'm still a sucker for Failtacular Kogasa. There's just something about seeing her put out so much effort to spook someone just to fuck up royally that makes me grin. Poor girl, suffering for my amusement.
I was never subjected to the 'Aya is a slut' meme, nor Sanae's slut-phase, though I have seen some of the 'Sanae is a good girl' bit.
Since I'm not really up-to-snuff on any of the games' characters past Mountain of Faith, I really don't know many of the current memes for the other characters. I mean, I know who they are, just not really sure (beyond Utsuho being Cirno2.0, which I think is pretty stupid for the same reasons as I do Cirno's (9) meme) what their associated memes are.
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Sick and tired of the goddamn PAD meme. FFS! It's not like ZUN can actually draw that well to begin with, when you suddenly hand the art responsibility over to Alphes, what do you expect? Of course Sakuya's gonna spontaneously grow some breasts.
And even if that weren't the case, who's to say she didn't just develop a little more? Eh? Piss off with your PADs.
Here is my response to the PAD meme.
Please enjoy [NSFW] http://tsundereworks.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/%E5%8D%81%E5%85%AD%E5%A4%9C-%E5%92%B2%E5%A4%9C-lenfrieds-sexy-izayoi-sakuya-cosplay/[/nsfw]
So as you can see, a perfect maid does not need pads to look good, for she is perfect.
Also, nobody has yet mentioned "I'm just useful for my sex appeal"
Reisen U Inaba.
[matsuri]Fixed the NSFW tag.[/matsuri]
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Here is my response to the PAD meme.
Please enjoy [NSFW] http://tsundereworks.wordpress.com/2010/03/05/%E5%8D%81%E5%85%AD%E5%A4%9C-%E5%92%B2%E5%A4%9C-lenfrieds-sexy-izayoi-sakuya-cosplay/[/nsfw]
So as you can see, a perfect maid does not need pads to look good, for she is perfect.
Also, nobody has yet mentioned "I'm just useful for my sex appeal"
Reisen U Inaba.
She doesn't quite pull off the look right IMO. Still like drawn Sakuya from TH06 or TH07 better.
[matsuri]Fixed the NSFW tag.[/matsuri]
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There's a Sanae set that's better.
By the way, the NSFW tag in that post needs to be fixed.
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Done. o/
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Sorry guys.
Really? I didn't like her Sanae set that much... I guess I just White Hair > Green Hair
hmmm =/
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Assuming anyone is hardworking enough to change how they are like as a Touhoufag, the world of Touhou and its community would be a much better place.
ie: be like a certain IOSYS and create your own memes.
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IOSYS: CIrno's Perfect Math Class
Nice work you guys, now we got a bunch of weaboos yelling out "baka baka!" over and over without even knowing what the video's from.
Touhou? What the hell's that?
Toe Hoe? A foot fetish game of some sort?
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Erebus
Like Touhou memes
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/OwlBear1337/Screens/121694578913.gif)
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(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/OwlBear1337/Screens/121694578913.gif)
Studio Ghibli is the shit. *saved*
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What I don't like in the fandom is how some people don't take well to competing ideas or theories of other folks. I'm tired of hearing "You can't mess with the setting" or "It just doesn't fit" . If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit for that person.
If I make a theory, it makes complete sense to me. I can make things clearer but some of the more important stuff requires referencing to sources by I hope you do bother to even just take a look.
The setting/character theories I wrote aren't an attack on peoples' ego to begin with anyway, but people feel all too threatened when the setting gets touched or if I even mention technology or magitech.
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IOSYS: CIrno's Perfect Math Class
Nice work you guys, now we got a bunch of weaboos yelling out "baka baka!" over and over without even knowing what the video's from.
Touhou? What the hell's that?
Toe Hoe? A foot fetish game of some sort?
Is this really that much of a problem? I mean, look at Caramelldansen. Very few people seem to know the original anime the original video was from, but is that any reason to blame Caramell or the creator of the video? Or how about Buri Hamachi. How many people who know about that meme honestly know it originally started with a song and character from Ar Tonelico? Being mad at the creator for making a fan work of what they like seems counter productive to me. I don't see any reason for people to get mad at those who see videos without knowing what series it's from either, though. It's not like all the world is required to experience the full Touhou universe simply because they enjoyed a IOSYS PV.
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention this, but the full version of Cirno's Perfect Math Class includes lines that more or less translate to 'Laughing foolishly, laughing loud
Inaba, annoying rabbit, though she's loveless
Brings in immature newcomers handily, handily, handily.
They watch it 1000000 times, what ignorant fools!
What is this about?! I may as well say
Good job, server management! "
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It's not like all the world is required to experience the full Touhou universe simply because they enjoyed a IOSYS PV.
True, but a simple trip to our old friend Google can clear things up real quick for those who don't know, oh and look what's the first (or at least second to first) thing to come up; Touhou Wiki. OH and what's in this wiki you say? Why a cornicopia of information people can look into and FINALLY educate themselves on what they're really getting into.
Seriously. It's not that hard, but yeah...you know people.
Basically, people don't need to ask dumbass questions when they have Google to give them a clear answer.
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Alright, sorry, I think I was misinterpreting Yukimune Reiku's comment. As far as people who come into the Touhou community with no clue what they're talking about especially when the resources are readily available then it IS a problem. I still stand by what I said, though, and I don't see that as being IOSYS's fault.
EDIT: proper-nouned Yukimune Reiku's name so it doesn't look like I'm yelling it.
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Indeed.
Neither ZUN nor any doujin circle can account for the fact that humanity by nature is lazy and stupid. Myself included.
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Is this really that much of a problem? I mean, look at Caramelldansen. Very few people seem to know the original anime the original video was from, but is that any reason to blame Caramell or the creator of the video? Or how about Buri Hamachi. How many people who know about that meme honestly know it originally started with a song and character from Ar Tonelico? Being mad at the creator for making a fan work of what they like seems counter productive to me. I don't see any reason for people to get mad at those who see videos without knowing what series it's from either, though. It's not like all the world is required to experience the full Touhou universe simply because they enjoyed a IOSYS PV.
You took my comment at face value.
However, I'll admit that when I fail to take a topic seriously, I tend to post a sarcastic comment that more or less matches my thoughts on the subject.
Anyway, here's a little more serious comment for the interested.
The thread isn't much, but there is some attempt to define what a Touhou fan is exactly.
I guess the problem with fan-dumb, Touhoufags, etc. is you get the gamers of the original series versus the people who just stick with the fan content, with things like music and PV's getting the most attention. (A lot of them lurk Youtube and the sort, but don't decide to join a forum such as this... not even to ask "Where does I download Touhou gaem")
In other words, for some people, it frustrates them to know that a series they love is getting attention for all the "bad" reasons, and that causes bad reputation for the fans of that series. Something like that, I guess.
------------> http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5459.30 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5459.30)
Eh. It's late and I just got back from doing a few errands. Tired... Someone stretch this topic a bit.
If you check that thread, I loosely comment on how Touhou fans are ONLY those who play games. Many other people feel this way of course, but some of them take it personal and then we get this hatate, err hate.
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I guess the problem with fan-dumb, Touhoufags, etc. is you get the gamers of the original series versus the people who just stick with the fan content, with things like music and PV's getting the most attention. (A lot of them lurk Youtube and the sort, but don't decide to join a forum such as this... not even to ask "Where does I download Touhou gaem")
In other words, for some people, it frustrates them to know that a series they love is getting attention for all the "bad" reasons, and that causes bad reputation for the fans of that series. Something like that, I guess.
The worst thing about this is this wouldn't even be a huge deal in the first place if people actually bothered to see what canon is all about AND THEN make their own conclusions instead of outright denying the existence of one in the first place. And then there are still people that deny canon even AFTER doing so. It IS frustrating especially if you consider that fan content is a lot louder than everything else.
Or how about Buri Hamachi. How many people who know about that meme honestly know it originally started with a song and character from Ar Tonelico?
...
I did.
Should I feel ashamed?
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Defining what a Touhou fan is invites a No True Scotsman sandtrap. This is why defining 'right' and 'wrong' types of fans leads to trouble. To many others, you're the cancer killing Touhou. I am, to many, just by writing fanfiction. I'm ok with that. Touhou is not some secret society with an entrance exam and a code of conduct. It's a game. People are going to enjoy it differently than you. Enjoy it the way you like instead of worrying about who's doing it wrong.
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ITT summary: people who like Touhou hates everyone else who likes Touhou for spoiling their Touhou.
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ITT summary: people who like [insert something] hates everyone else who likes [same thing] for spoiling their [same thing again].
Fixed for applicability to all fandoms in existence past, present, infinity and beyond.
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Honestly, the people who make a big deal about the fandom are generally more annoying than the fandom itself.
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Honestly, the people who make a big deal about the fandom are generally more annoying than the fandom itself.
All that rage...where did the "take it easy" go? :derp:
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Defining what a Touhou fan is invites a No True Scotsman sandtrap. This is why defining 'right' and 'wrong' types of fans leads to trouble. To many others, you're the cancer killing Touhou. I am, to many, just by writing fanfiction. I'm ok with that. Touhou is not some secret society with an entrance exam and a code of conduct. It's a game. People are going to enjoy it differently than you. Enjoy it the way you like instead of worrying about who's doing it wrong.
Now if everyone else thought the same way we'd "be at peace"
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tawhaw is my favorite anime
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I love how Alice is tsundere for Melissa.
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All that rage...where did the "take it easy" go? :derp:
We need to put that on the very front of the board, in big letters.
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I love how Alice is tsundere for Melissa.
Melissa is fine too. :V
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tawhaw is my favorite anime
i am laughing so god damn hard at this oh god my lungs why
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Now if everyone else thought the same way we'd "be at peace"
That would require everyone to acknowledge that each might themselves be the cancer that is killing Touhou. I'd raise my hand immediately because it's not SRS BSNS to me, but I don't see this mindset spreading to the whole fandumb.
Then again, if nothing Toehoe was SRS BSNS we'd be at peace anyway, So Yeah.
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That would require everyone to acknowledge that each might themselves be the cancer that is killing Touhou.
FUCKDAMMIT Sakuya has PAD cancer
==============================
Touhoufags aren't important to anyone. Look, I don't even know any immediate Touhou fans in my area
---------> TOUHOU ONLINE DATING SERVICE Find your man/woman that plays Lunatic in your area
Why is Internet fame/praise/reputation (whatever) to all these people?
If I were to ask people around "Do you know what Touhou is?" I'll be more than lucky to get even one "I do" in that group.
Sure, idiots are annoying, but I still don't understand why so many people get butthurt about it. If I understood this even just a little bit, the thread would be going a little more in depth
/frustration
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That would require everyone to acknowledge that each might themselves be the cancer that is killing Touhou. I'd raise my hand immediately because it's not SRS BSNS to me, but I don't see this mindset spreading to the whole fandumb.
Then again, if nothing Toehoe was SRS BSNS we'd be at peace anyway, So Yeah.
I find the touhou canon to sometimes be more ridiculous than the fandom.
Even when touhous fight they're barely ever serious. Idk seems like there's this happy factor coinciding with all the danger.
---------> TOUHOU ONLINE DATING SERVICE Find your man/woman that plays Lunatic in your area
Fund it.
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tawhaw is an anime based on the BAD APPLE! music video which was made of paper cutouts i herd it on CNN
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tawhaw is an anime based on the BAD APPLE! music video which was made of paper cutouts i herd it on CNN
Is that the Bill o' Reilly news report?
"Touhou and how the Japanese are forwarding the gay agenda in America."
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tawhaw is an anime based on the BAD APPLE! music video which was made of paper cutouts i herd it on CNN
Responding with Banamatic's words on Youtube:
and today on CNN, how to piss off 200,000 weeaboos in 1 minute and 7 seconds
Highest rated comment on that goddamn video. Congratulations.
--------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeEIteQmpHE
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Responding with Banamatic's words on Youtube:Highest rated comment on that goddamn video. Congratulations.
--------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeEIteQmpHE
So, does this mean CNN counts as fandumb?
I can see the same thing happening no matter what fanbase it was. I mean, you have a "reputable" new sources telling the public screwed up info about a series and fanworls. It's much worse than was a troll could do.
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So, does this mean CNN counts as fandumb?
I can see the same thing happening no matter what fanbase it was. I mean, you have a "reputable" new sources telling the public screwed up info about a series and fanworls. It's much worse than was a troll could do.
1. CNN doesn't even know what Touhou is. Obviously they don't count.
It was a mistake that any human being could do. CNN wasn't made for this. CNN is better at reporting news about politics than reporting Touhou. It was just a slow day. =/
People failing to recognize this and bitching about it nonstop counts as FANDUMB, though.
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surprisingly, it was at work here that I found out my colleague's little brother is a Touhoufag.
he likes it so much he visits 4chan and talk about it.
problem: he spews memes
now, I know it is wrong to hate people like that but sometimes, just sometimes I can't help but wanting to ask him to shut the fuck up noob.
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he likes it so much he visits 4chan
Try to save the kid before it's too late, will ya?
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Sure, idiots are annoying, but I still don't understand why so many people get butthurt about it.
I agree wholeheartedly. Ours is a shared confusion.
I have been in many fandoms previously in my life, and so far, while Touhou is perhaps not the least conflicted one, it is by far most enjoyable fandom I've ever experienced.
I honestly have nothing to seriously complain about; maybe I am just good at ignoring the things I don't like, but that's the truth.
I love Touhou, and I want my time in the fandom to be enjoyable. I try my best to contribute the best I can, and leave it at that; it's the only thing I can do. I'm sure most fans try to do the same, but everyone does it in their own way. In this case, "fandumb" is entirely objective.
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CNN is better at reporting news about politics than reporting Touhou. It was just a slow day. =/
No sir, no sir they are not.
Well, maybe CNN International. Maybe.
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Should have gotten Anderson Cooper on that scoop. :V
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surprisingly, it was at work here that I found out my colleague's little brother is a Touhoufag.
he likes it so much he visits 4chan and talk about it.
problem: he spews memes
now, I know it is wrong to hate people like that but sometimes, just sometimes I can't help but wanting to ask him to shut the fuck up noob.
you have to grow up out of memespouting
3 years ago, I was also like that
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Okay, it's 1 AM in the morning in my country, I could only read the first 2 pages. And then, of course, I gave up on reading the same thing over and over again...
What I think you are saying is that, because touhou fans say memes of touhou that are repeated uncountable times, you rage at them? Can't you all control your rage a little? Please, I thought the human kind was dumb before, now I know it is pathetic. Look at what we are arguing over! Okay, so some people say some memes, IGNORE IT. You can't? Your fault. People will keep writting these things. So, the ones who can't stand them, just ignore them.
We've all said them ONCE in our lives, haven't we?
And, anyway, what's so wrong with them? At first, they just made me laugh. And some of them still do. I admit I don't like having to go to the bottom of the page just because someone wanted to say "CHEN" with unlimited E's, but it's just A LITTLE THING OF LIFE AND NO ONE SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION. Get over it.
You don't like IOSYS? Don't listen.
You don't like nine jokes? Don't read.
You don't like that touhou has almost no male? IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES TOUHOU SPECIAL.
And, something else, CIRNO WAS JUST A STAGE 2 BOSS. And from EoSD. If it wasn't because of fandom, would she be remembered so easily? I don't think that ZUN picked her randomly. And, look at that, a coincidence, that character that didn't appear for years suddenly appear in hisoutensoku and the great fairy wars! WOULD IT BE BECAUSE OF FANDOM? And, it's not like she standed out from anyone else in the game, he could have picked Rumia, but he didn't. He picked Cirno.
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Stuff
I personally have to agree entirely with you. It's not that big of a deal, and the fandom produces much more good things than bad.
I must say, though, it does get tiring whenever I see the apparently obligatory pad joke on almost literally anything related to Sakuya. But still, not a big deal.
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Well IMO fag is another word for "fan", nothing serious.
We have Touhoufags, Narutards, Nanohafags, Haruhibullsists,... and so on, the insulting part was washed away before the meme even started.
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Okay, it's 1 AM in the morning in my country, I could only read the first 2 pages. And then, of course, I gave up on reading the same thing over and over again...
What I think you are saying is that, because touhou fans say memes of touhou that are repeated uncountable times, you rage at them? Can't you all control your rage a little? Please, I thought the human kind was dumb before, now I know it is pathetic. Look at what we are arguing over! Okay, so some people say some memes, IGNORE IT. You can't? Your fault. People will keep writting these things. So, the ones who can't stand them, just ignore them.
We've all said them ONCE in our lives, haven't we?
And, anyway, what's so wrong with them? At first, they just made me laugh. And some of them still do. I admit I don't like having to go to the bottom of the page just because someone wanted to say "CHEN" with unlimited E's, but it's just A LITTLE THING OF LIFE AND NO ONE SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION. Get over it.
You don't like IOSYS? Don't listen.
You don't like nine jokes? Don't read.
You don't like that touhou has almost no male? IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES TOUHOU SPECIAL.
And, something else, CIRNO WAS JUST A STAGE 2 BOSS. And from EoSD. If it wasn't because of fandom, would she be remembered so easily? I don't think that ZUN picked her randomly. And, look at that, a coincidence, that character that didn't appear for years suddenly appear in hisoutensoku and the great fairy wars! WOULD IT BE BECAUSE OF FANDOM? And, it's not like she standed out from anyone else in the game, he could have picked Rumia, but he didn't. He picked Cirno.
Good, so you have intelligence and you show signs of understanding cause and effect from part of the fanbase and from part of Zun.
For me, memes are best described as harmless. It really doesn't do much. =/
Besides, you can't do much about any particular aspect of the Touhou fandom you don't like. The most you can do is change how you react to it. It doesn't sound like much, but it really makes a difference. It opens your eyes to other parts in the fandom that are more important, and overall, you enjoy Touhou more.
All this talk about memes is bullshit.
In short, I agree with everything you have said.
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Well IMO fag is another word for "fan", nothing serious.
We have Touhoufags, Narutards, Nanohafags, Haruhibullsists,... and so on, the insulting part was washed away before the meme even started.
Narutard is most definitely an insult. Just some narutards don't realize it.
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You are an alcohol connoisseur. You really enjoy alcohol, are very knowledgeable about the subject and you're well-versed in how you enjoy it. Of course you drink regularly, and you have many friends that share your interest. You do have people that share your interests but delve into alcohol in a different manner, and do not quite agree with many of your opinions. You bicker, but it yields nothing and at the end of the day you just separate from each other and leave each other alone. You do run into them every so often, and the meetings can result in a good and bad outcome all the same.
You also have many various acquaintances, relatives, friends of friends that binge drink. Their favorite booze is Jagerbomb, they drink purely to get totally wasted and have "no respect" for how alcohol "should be treated", among other such terribleness. They talk to you regularly and flaunt themselves at you, and everywhere you look there are more of them. You feel ashamed to even know them, and many people agree with you.
However, many argue that "how alcohol should be treated" isn't decided by the people who know the most about the subject, i.e. you. You can tell them precisely why certain things are inexcusable, but it changes nothing. You kind of sound like an elitist to other people, but it's your respect for the drink that brings you to this level, not a holier-than-thou attitude (which you may or may not possess). Many also argue that they should just be ignored, but pretty much anyone aside from them can tell it's simply impossible to let them roam around spewing around such crappery. Of course the arguments result in nothing, but you have to get out there and attempt to put them in their place anyways.
I might be able to go further with this but it's hard to find specific things.
You don't like that touhou has almost no male? IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES TOUHOU SPECIAL.
I like how you tell people to ignore these kinds of things and throw a comment like this out there yourself.
No, the thread is not directed towards raging at people who spout memes 24/7. Memes can be nice. Meme-spouting itself is just an annoyance. Of course some topics were repeated, but it isn't like this thread was designed for anything but demonstrating what people think of the fandom. I know it's 1AM, but the way you post all that really makes you sound like an egotistic prude. You're ignoring every argument in the entire thread and summing up everything discussed as something that can be easily handwaved away. I don't see how you can just waltz in, declare your almighty answer to everything (nothing) and just leave it at that, as if you actually contributed to any discussion at all. Using phrases such as "pathetic", "I thought the human kind was dumb before" and "your fault" without addressing a single thing in particular, it exudes a giant wave of self-righteousness and I don't particularly like it.
You could have taken your own advice and ignored this entire thread. Is there a reason for that, or did you just want to proclaim yourself as right? Is there any difference between you posting now, and us posting about the fandom?
I could have very well taken your advice and ignored you as well, but I would rather not.
(I do however agree with your comment on Cirno.)
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Really? I thought we were done with this.
Alright, I'll say it again, but I think the biggest problem is simply people assuming that there is a 'right way' to enjoy what you enjoy. Sure, people doing things that annoy you and that you consider base or inappropriate is terrible, but in the end it's their right and who are you to tell them that they can't? You don't have to like them, you don't have to agree with them, but you also don't have to rage at them or defame them. Sure they may seep into what you like as well and may express that they enjoy doing what they do in that inappropriate or annoying way, but by raging at them all your doing is breeding rage. You will not change their mind. They will not change your mind. The only way to break this cycle is to agree to disagree and not be angered when you see someone enjoying themselves simply because you see it as the wrong way of doing it.
That being said, as you pointed out Mary the Magician, after two pages you felt like you were reading the same thing over and over and to be perfectly honest you have only posted more of what has been posted here already. We can rage about who's right, who's wrong, who should ignore who and who has it coming ad nauseum or we can all agree that we all like Touhou, it's a pretty neat game, and all MotK is a pretty neat community.
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Yeah, I thought so too. Resurrecting a cautious debate thread with nothing fulfilling to say probably wasn't a great idea. Then again, neither is continuing it.
I respect your opinion in that it's pretty much neutral through-and-through. However, even if it's people's rights to do whatever they do, that doesn't deter people from actively disagreeing with them, and it doesn't magically block people against criticism and down-putting comments. It's also someone's right to fight against what they find is 'wrong' and it's a double standard to say that people can like whatever they like and be left totally alone without anyone else disagreeing. Who is anyone to tell anyone else to not tell someone else they can't do something (Ha ha, old chap!)? People are people. Whether arguing begets more rage is a different matter. People's minds can be changed, it's how we learn. Without other people telling us what to/not to do, we don't get any better. It's less of a "right way to enjoy something" as "how you enjoy something doesn't really affect me much but it pisses me off anyways".
You eat a meal daintily. I eat a meal by slamming my face into my food and shoveling into my mouth with my hands. You get angry. Same thing? Not quite, but close.
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I know it's 1AM, but the way you post all that really makes you sound like an egotistic prude. You're ignoring every argument in the entire thread and summing up everything discussed as something that can be easily handwaved away. I don't see how you can just waltz in, declare your almighty answer to everything (nothing) and just leave it at that, as if you actually contributed to any discussion at all. Using phrases such as "pathetic", "I thought the human kind was dumb before" and "your fault" without addressing a single thing in particular, it exudes a giant wave of self-righteousness and I don't particularly like it.
You could have taken your own advice and ignored this entire thread. Is there a reason for that, or did you just want to proclaim yourself as right? Is there any difference between you posting now, and us posting about the fandom?
I could have very well taken your advice and ignored you as well, but I would rather not.
(I do however agree with your comment on Cirno.)
Was this really necessary? Really? Mary's new here, she read up a bit on this thread, and expressed an opinion - just like everyone else in this thread has done. She did not deserve the type of vitriol you threw at her with this statement, and you'd do well to apologize to her. I seriously have no idea how you even arrive at half the shit you've said about her here.
YOU could have stopped writing after your alcohol analogy. YOU were the one who decided to go on and blast Mary for ... I still don't understand why. For bumping the thread? For having an opinion? Who knows. Whatever your reasons, you were totally out of line here and not very coherent.
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Ya know, I have to agree with the whole debate about having a "right way" of doing things, but if I may, what about those times when it gets really disruptive?
Kinda like that abusive PAD spam in a chat, I can understand some people can like that, but when it gets to the point that you can't get around it...
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Ya know, I have to agree with the whole debate about having a "right way" of doing things, but if I may, what about those times when it gets really disruptive?
Kinda like that abusive PAD spam in a chat, I can understand some people can like that, but when it gets to the point that you can't get around it...
Making people drink from a firehose is always a bad idea, no matter the content. If you keep hammering on one idea, one concept, one website, or even, yes, one meme, over and over again, people are bound to get tired of it. Especially from the same person. I don't think that's necessarily a judgement call on Touhou fandom itself, but on spamming the hell out of people in general.
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Was this really necessary? Really? Mary's new here, she read up a bit on this thread, and expressed an opinion - just like everyone else in this thread has done. She did not deserve the type of vitriol you threw at her with this statement, and you'd do well to apologize to her. I seriously have no idea how you even arrive at half the shit you've said about her here.
YOU could have stopped writing after your alcohol analogy. YOU were the one who decided to go on and blast Mary for ... I still don't understand why. For bumping the thread? For having an opinion? Who knows. Whatever your reasons, you were totally out of line here and not very coherent.
Vitriol? Are we reading the same words here? >>; Sorry, I don't quite follow.
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I don't agree on any of this cause almost a one month old thread got bumped for no reason. Repeating same words what has being said over a discussion that was suppose to end a month ago is not really necessary imo.
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<snip>
While I think that Drake's tone was quite amiss, I agree with him on several points. It is quite rude to bag together all posts in the thread and calling them "dumb" and "pathetic", especially after admitting that you did not read more than the first two pages.
Most importantly, it was a bump to an old thread that had already died, and your post was not really necessary anyways as you only brought forth argumemnts that had already be discussed sufficiently. You berated people for the inability to ignore stuff and let it die, yet you yourself revived a dead thread to complain about something. At the very least, this should show you how the people you called "dumb" and "pathetic" feel.
On the actual topic itself, I will tell you to read a post I made long ago on the discussion of "Fanon vs Canon (Alice)". I linked it earlier in the thread, but as you said yourself, you didn't get that far. :derp:
>>Click Here<< (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5366.msg284806.html#msg284806)
And now, as everything should be clarified, I am looking forward for this thread to die.
Again.
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Vitriol? Are we reading the same words here? >>;
I don't know, are we?
I know it's 1AM, but the way you post all that really makes you sound like an egotistic prude. ... I don't see how you can just waltz in, declare your almighty answer to everything (nothing) and just leave it at that, as if you actually contributed to any discussion at all. ... it exudes a giant wave of self-righteousness and I don't particularly like it.
If it's totally cool to talk like this to a new person who's expressed an opinion no "better" or "worse" than anyone else in this thread, then that's news to me.
The thread bump was probably unnecessary, but Mary was making an effort here to join in this discussion in good faith. I don't feel she deserved being called "an egotistical prude" for having the opinion she did which, as others have pointed out, wasn't exactly anything new to this thread.
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oh would you just shut up the user's been here for weeks
I'm locking this, I really don't think I need to explain why, maybe someone else wants it unlocked but I sure don't
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I don't know, are we?
If it's totally cool to talk like this to a new person who's expressed an opinion no "better" or "worse" than anyone else in this thread, then that's news to me.
The thread bump was probably unnecessary, but Mary was making an effort here to join in this discussion in good faith. I don't feel she deserved being called "an egotistical prude" for having the opinion she did which, as others have pointed out, wasn't exactly anything new to this thread.
"Can't you all control your rage a little? Please, I thought the human kind was dumb before, now I know it is pathetic. Look at what we are arguing over! Okay, so some people say some memes, IGNORE IT. You can't? Your fault."
I realize we all have our own definition of what is and isn't in good faith, but it blows my mind that you gloss over what Mary says yet seem to have a problem with what Drake says. And you keep emphasizing 'new person' but that really should be irrelevant here. I don't care if you've been here one week or one hundred weeks, you should be held to the same standards as everyone else.
Either way, locking thread. I'm not trying to hush things up (well I AM, but not in the "no more talky I AM THE LAW" way), but this can be taken to PM.
NO YOU DON'T LGB-NINJA I call dibs on the lock >:<
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am fastaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
(for the record, "egotistical prude" sounds more silly than anything)