Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Akyu's Arcade => Topic started by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 02:53:32 PM

Title: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 02:53:32 PM
It's our favorite time of year again.  The big E invades and we all sit about hearing about the latest technical doodads and wizardries for our favorite timewasters.

BIG NEWS:
Natal is now Kinect, sports badly synced actors (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64251) http://i46.tinypic.com/nybgog.jpg
360 slim likely coming your way, with 250gbs, built-in wifi, and a trendy new anorexic look (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64254)
Fallout: New Vegas trailer (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64255)
New game from Ninja Gaiden team promises shit exploding, lots of it. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64253)
Oh yeah, I guess there's this Killzone 3 trailer :yawn: (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64246)
Bodycount promises to be another generic console FPS (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64257)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 03:26:10 PM
Yawn another console FPS (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64257)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Bananamatic on June 14, 2010, 03:29:12 PM
lol nextgen
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nat Tea on June 14, 2010, 03:29:56 PM
VALVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Garlyle on June 14, 2010, 03:31:45 PM
This just in, Kojima still loves countdowns (http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/e3_2010/)

Quantum Theory (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bag0a-dJDqI).  I can't decide if this is the worst of Western and Japanese design combining or the best.

Also how the hell did you not bring up Naughty Bear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th_Zi0K2CjM)

Oh yeah, and please assume the SURPRISE escort position, which is not the surprise. (http://pc.ign.com/articles/109/1094050p1.html)

Also we're getting Hokuto no Musou.  Waiting on the trailer to show up.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on June 14, 2010, 03:52:46 PM
Anything about Golden Sun DS, maybe?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Fruggles on June 14, 2010, 04:09:52 PM
Anything about Golden Sun DS, maybe?
I hope so.
Also, I wonder will the 3DS be playable today, or only after the Nintendo press conference tomorrow? I don't have too high of hopes about it, but it might be great.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Gpop on June 14, 2010, 04:58:36 PM
Hey, don't forget Rock Band 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmWJNidyqKM)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: communist unity (comm-unity) on June 14, 2010, 05:30:30 PM
You can watch microsoft's E3 stream here.

http://www.gametrailers.com/e3/livefeed/microsoft

starts right now :V
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 06:17:19 PM
Natal (oh sorry, Kinect), is set for a November release.  Assassin's Creed and MGS got new trailers here (http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/14/assassins-creed-brotherhood-stalks-retail-on-november-16/) and here (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64263).

And of course Activision announces its new assraping scheme of DLC exclusively for the 360.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 07:08:32 PM
360 slim CONFIRMED and shipping NOW.  At same price points of current models, has wifi and HD built in.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Cadmas on June 14, 2010, 07:11:37 PM
I wonder if the ac adapter is also slim. That thing is as big as the xbox360 and weighs maybe more.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 07:14:39 PM
I would imagine given power requirements have dropped considerably with the redesign.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: JT on June 14, 2010, 07:16:56 PM
Happy face:
Metal Gear looks awesome
New 360 at the same price

Sad face:
More shooting games and buzzword-spouting corporate douchehats
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 07:26:13 PM
http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=14988&game_id=#img159038

360 slim pics.  Retails at $299 with builtin wifi and 250gb hd.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Cadmas on June 14, 2010, 07:29:05 PM
I'm alright with shooter games. I rather have a bunch of those rather than Yoga/Tai chi games and dance ware.

One thing that does make me sad about the new xbox360s is that it is made of that mac plastic.
Sure it looks nice and shiny on camera and in the store casing, but that stuff gets nasty when I start putting my chicken wing fingers on it.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 07:30:51 PM
Yeah the gloss kind of bothers me.  But who cares, smaller, quieter, BUILTIN WIFI (I can't repeat how awesome that is), and 250gb drive for $299?  Yes, drop that sucker right in my lap.

I'm going to talk my parents into buying my current 360 off of me and snagging a Slim :V
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 07:37:41 PM
More 360 SLIM pics http://www.flickr.com/photos/majornelson/sets/72157624274842982/
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 14, 2010, 07:41:14 PM
Kinect coverage is only slightly less mind-blowingly irritating than Cammie from Nintendo's conference in 2008.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 07:45:50 PM
Oh god yes, I am so totally nonplussed about Kinect, other than the potential for headtracking use.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on June 14, 2010, 07:46:52 PM
Anything about Golden Sun DS, maybe?

This. :ohdear:

Pok?mon B&W info, hopefully, too.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 08:07:48 PM
Fuck yeah Dead Space 2 PC controls fixed.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=250760
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Grand Octopus on June 14, 2010, 08:15:02 PM
http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265343/

Rez pseudo-sequel (Mizuguchi again) for 360/PS3. Video makes it pretty clear that Kinect/Move is the intended control method.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 14, 2010, 08:19:49 PM
http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265343/

Rez pseudo-sequel (Mizuguchi again) for 360/PS3. Video makes it pretty clear that Kinect/Move is the intended control method.

<Edible> man i hate all this motion control bullshit
<Game Industry> STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM!  NOBODY DENIES THE FUTURE OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY ON MY WATCH!  I'M CONFISCATING YOUR STOLEN GOODS AND HERE HAVE A REZ SEQUEL
<Edible> f u :(
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: JT on June 14, 2010, 08:22:55 PM
Quote
Rez pseudo-sequel
Awesome!
Quote
Kinect/Move is the intended control method.
god damn it
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on June 14, 2010, 08:39:16 PM
/me looks at JT's new av, which gets him thinking...

...Pshaw, I wish. Then again, does Skies really NEED a sequel?

...Though, speaking of surprise sequels to older games with cultish followings, new info on Rocket Knight popping up would be nice. ...Or ir's already out. :|
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Cadmas on June 14, 2010, 08:48:20 PM
Fuck yeah Dead Space 2 PC controls fixed.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=250760

Alright now I can, "enter zero gravity" and "smack that" without self killing labor.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Ghaleon on June 14, 2010, 09:03:19 PM
New ecks bawks? I hope it fixes the RRoD. Also I third a desire for golden sun ds info.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 14, 2010, 09:10:54 PM
RRoD has been fixed for years.  Falcon fixed most of it and Jasper fixed the rest.  Only thing new to the table is built-in wifi and quieter design.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Cadmas on June 14, 2010, 09:18:57 PM
So I read the showing of Kinect (I liked Natal better btw easy to spell) was a big stage show.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: JT on June 14, 2010, 09:45:07 PM
/me looks at JT's new av, which gets him thinking...

...Pshaw, I wish. Then again, does Skies really NEED a sequel?

...Though, speaking of surprise sequels to older games with cultish followings, new info on Rocket Knight popping up would be nice. ...Or ir's already out. :|

I know I for one would kill to see a sequel or spiritual successor to Skies of Arcadia. I feel like there are way too many flowery, angst-ridden, FF7/Evangelion-inspired JRPGs. We need more hotblooded adventures like Skies.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: dustyjo on June 14, 2010, 09:48:34 PM
OH GOD YES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hJQRSB6IqE&hd=1)

I am so happy right now. Thank you, Criterion.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 14, 2010, 09:56:45 PM
OH GOD YES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hJQRSB6IqE&hd=1)

I am so happy right now. Thank you, Criterion.

Looks sweet as hell, but lol cops in veyrons.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: NamelessFool on June 14, 2010, 10:01:25 PM
Wow. Naughty Bear seems to have a lot of promise. XD
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on June 14, 2010, 10:04:36 PM
I know I for one would kill to see a sequel or spiritual successor to Skies of Arcadia. I feel like there are way too many flowery, angst-ridden, FF7/Evangelion-inspired JRPGs. We need more hotblooded adventures like Skies.

Yes, that's very true. While I'm someone who can live with the trends, I do think more games like SoA should be around. Sadly, the chances of seeing a sequel, prequel, or spiritual sequel are slim pickings. But hey, we can dream, and if Skies taught you one thing, it's not to give up on your dreams, right? :3
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: communist unity (comm-unity) on June 14, 2010, 10:26:34 PM
OH GOD YES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hJQRSB6IqE&hd=1)

I am so happy right now. Thank you, Criterion.

 :getdown:
Classical NFS, hell yeah.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on June 14, 2010, 10:31:54 PM
Oh yeah, and i can't wait to see the parental watchgroups' reactions to Naughty Bear. It's going to be HILARIOUS.  :smug:
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 14, 2010, 10:59:25 PM
Oh yeah, and i can't wait to see the parental watchgroups' reactions to Naughty Bear. It's going to be HILARIOUS.  :smug:
Hmm I wonder if Jack Thompson is still around...

Or in jail :smug:
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: dustyjo on June 14, 2010, 10:59:39 PM
Looks sweet as hell, but Ha ha, old chap! cops in veyrons.

It's a classic NFS tradition to put cops in ridiculously impractical cop cars :V

There's a police Reventon in there too.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Iryan on June 14, 2010, 11:02:02 PM
So, Naughty Bear is a cross between Winnie the Poo and Manhunt?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on June 15, 2010, 12:16:56 AM
Hmm, is all the news for today over? :/
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 15, 2010, 01:10:38 AM
I'm watching the Ubisoft conference right now.

Nitori's inventions are to be featured in the next Ghost Recon.

Yes, I'm talking about the Optical Camouflage suit.

Edit: Oh snap, TrackMania is branching out into RPGs and FPSes. I cannot wait.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: communist unity (comm-unity) on June 15, 2010, 01:37:20 AM
Looks like another year without a beyond good & evil 2 announcement.

 :colonveeplusalpha:
(http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/5584/negativeman55f.png)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 15, 2010, 01:38:31 AM
Looks like another year without a beyond good & evil 2 announcement.

 :colonveeplusalpha:
(http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/5584/negativeman55f.png)

There there. At least they remembered Rayman existed.

Edit: Oh god. I just realized it's called "Kinect." I thought it was suppose to be "Kinetic" D:
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Silent Harmony on June 15, 2010, 01:56:58 AM
LOL Ubisoft. I'm actually shocked at how bad they pulled that off.

Only a couple of good things, but mostly Wii-ripoffs and showing off stuff that was "innovative" in the mid-90s.

And MICHEAL JACKSON!!!! Except not. ::)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Ghaleon on June 15, 2010, 04:50:32 AM
RRoD has been fixed for years.  Falcon fixed most of it and Jasper fixed the rest.  Only thing new to the table is built-in wifi and quieter design.

duds WTF, I remember researching this up the ass less than a year ago with no luck, when mushiness futari came out on xbox. Nobody seemed to know this. But thanks for the info! Also, I don't understand what merging garlyle is talking about with that quantem theory game. Looks like some kinda generic space marine tps game to me.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 15, 2010, 05:40:27 AM
And MICHEAL JACKSON!!!! Except not. ::)

Sage for not video games.

No, but seriously, That's Sega's shtick, not yours, Ubisoft.

Also, as it turns out, I asked around and I'm the only one who was actually interested in the Mania games. Oh well. Ubisoft style dropped the ball for the most part.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Grand Octopus on June 15, 2010, 06:06:57 AM
Quote
"Just so you're not wasting time wondering: YES - Child of Eden supports regular controllers, too."
Child of Eden / Rez pseudo sequel confirmed to support regular controls as well as motion shenanigans. (http://twitter.com/jamesmielke) I can breathe a little easier now.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: lumber_of_the_beast on June 15, 2010, 08:50:41 AM
In before Nintendo shows off a dozen or so 'core' titles, which turns out to be more than Sony and Microsoft combined. While Sony spends at least 60% of its conference talking about its crummy Wiimote knockoff and the crummy games that will be released for it.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Cadmas on June 15, 2010, 09:24:24 AM
Nintendo is likely to come out with The World before Microsoft and Sony catch up. :3

Or the Nintendo Holodeck.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Garlyle on June 15, 2010, 09:40:21 AM
Also, I don't understand what merging garlyle is talking about with that quantem theory game. Looks like some kinda generic space marine tps game to me.
Yeah, at first glance.  Then you realise the design of the characters is distinctly in that "Realistic Anime" format, that the plot and setting are shaping with JRPG traditions (Giant towers that are half-alive and randomly shifting)... it's just glossed over with western TPS gameplay and grit.  Like I said, it could be an awesome combo, because both sides of those have had some -really- good results from time to time - but they're also the chance of it taking nothing but the most generic elements of both sides in which case AUGH.

Ah well.  Rez 2 Seeds of Eden makes me happy on a matter of principle.  Only thing that could've made me happier would've been Space Channel 5 Part 3.... but then again, Space Michael is always a possibility, given BEAT IT JUST BEAT IT

Rayman makes me happy on a matter of principle.

Also, it looks like things are basically a repeat of last year.  Microsoft's got nothing new except Wii Sports Kinect to show off, Ubisoft is largely awkward and incoming failure pockmarked by a couple "HOLY SHIT DO WANT" moments, EA is clearly not aiming at the market I'm part of, and Activision is evil and useless.
...Which means we can expect Sony to show off a crapload of games but only have one actual announcement that will make any impact, and Nintendo to bring its fans to its knees with tears of shame - and then tears of pure joy.

Also Kojima trolling someone again.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 15, 2010, 01:30:40 PM
Don't forget that we should be seeing some more of Other M.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 01:48:27 PM
More impressions from the new 360.

Quote
After unveiling the new slimmer 360 at the close of their press briefing, Microsoft offered me a chance to check one out more closely. My immediate question was just how "whisper quiet" is this thing? The answer is, pretty damn quiet. Much of the noise from the old 360 actually came from the DVD drive spinning. I popped Alan Wake into the new machine and waited to hear what happened. Not much. The new optical drive makes very little noise beyond a few confident clicks as the tray locks into place and it goes about its business.
Likewise, the switch to a larger diameter, slower RPM fan eliminates almost all noise from that either. It also seems to have helped with circulation. Holding my hand above the vented top (with the console stood up) I could easily feel the air being drawn into the case. Internal updates also appear to help the new smaller 360 stay cool. The new model gets 45nm chips and the resulting reduction in power draw has let them drop the new power brick to 135 watts.

Other changes, including the new aesthetic, are refinements aimed at making the 360 more at home in the entertainment center. The glossy piano black finish looks like the bezel material on many modern HDTVs. The new touch sensitive buttons responded quickly and predictably to my finger. There are now plenty of connections on the back including three USB ports and an optical S/PDIF port. And lest it go overlooked, they've finally included built-in Wi-Fi with support for 802.11n. It's a nice enough refresh of the system that more than a few existing owners are going to be tempted to get a new machine.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 15, 2010, 02:05:24 PM
The biggest improvement for new owners is probably WiFi.  The 360 wireless adapter is a fucking ripoff, especially when you consider that the other two consoles had it standard.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 03:14:59 PM
Super Scribblenauts!
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 15, 2010, 03:19:34 PM
Oh man yes. Scribblenauts was brilliant save for a few flaws. Here's hoping they really did fix them all.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Janitor Morgan on June 15, 2010, 03:22:49 PM
adjectives

 :o

This will be awesome.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 03:28:11 PM
Oh man yes. Scribblenauts was brilliant save for a few flaws. Here's hoping they really did fix them all.

The chances of them having fixed the controls are slim to none.

Adjectives are a fantastic idea to an already fantastic game, though.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 15, 2010, 03:33:44 PM
The chances of them having fixed the controls are slim to none.

Adjectives are a fantastic idea to an already fantastic game, though.
At the very least, it seems like you can move Maxwell with the d-pad.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 04:06:53 PM
Oh boy.

Coming soon to your next console Zelda game, Wii Motion Plus to swing your sword around, and block things with the nunchuk.

:|
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 04:23:37 PM
Those controls look so fucking awkward.  Miyamoto is basically fumbling like crazy.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 04:26:29 PM
Can't even default to the superior gamecube version this time around.  blerhrgh.

And Wii Link is still right-handed.  Game sucks move on.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 04:29:31 PM
Oh fuck I totally missed this during the shitfest that was UbiSoft's panel.

TrackMania 2 screens?! :o

http://www.abload.de/img/maniaplanet10pnx.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/maniaplanet2kovt.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/maniaplanet3xozd.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/maniaplanet42rhm.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/maniaplanet5hpov.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/maniaplanet6lre2.jpg

TM2 beta in Q4 2010: http://www.abload.de/img/maniaplanet_beta_dates5oov.jpg
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 04:30:46 PM
Golden Sun: Dark Dawn! :O :O :O

I gotta replay through the first two again...

Trailer appears to be very similar to the original game, RPG + puzzle gameplay.  Battles are in full 3D now.

Edit: And out "this holiday season", or in game industry terms Q4, so anytime between December and March.  Here's hoping before Christmas, but I won't mind if they don't rush.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 04:36:50 PM
Oh fuck fuck fuck GOLDENEYE WII yesssssss.

But why can't it come out on a console with a non-retarded online setup whyyyyyyyy :(
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Matsuri on June 15, 2010, 04:38:21 PM
Golden Sun: Dark Dawn! :O :O :O

:* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :*
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Matsuri on June 15, 2010, 04:43:06 PM
oh fuck yes is that a new Kirby announcement

yes it is

I have been hoping for this for fucking years
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 04:48:34 PM
Damn it, that Kirby game looks phenomenal.  I may actually have to buy a Wii now, what with Other M coming out soon too.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Silent Harmony on June 15, 2010, 04:56:57 PM
Speaking of which, Other M looks better than I expected. As long as the 3rd person-1st Person transitions works well enough. But Kirby's Yarn showed some very nice innovation (unzipping a wall, folding the background). Beautiful too.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 04:59:27 PM
3ds spotted.  Sporting same stupid clamshell as the old DS, slightly wider screen, a single fail analog nub like the PSP.  But hey, it's

3D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 04:59:28 PM
...

I'm not usually one for Nintendo's repetitive product placement but I will be first in line to get a 3DS.  Holy crap.

@TSO: C'mon, TWO cameras on the outside so you can take 3d pictures. :O :O  How awesome is this.

ALSO 3DS KID ICARUS
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on June 15, 2010, 05:06:23 PM
:* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :* :*
My reaction exactly.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 05:07:22 PM
Overall this blows Microsoft's out of the goddamn water.  I don't know how Sony is going to one-up them this year.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: theshirn on June 15, 2010, 05:07:32 PM
Golden Sun: Dark Dawn! :O :O :O
OH YEAH[/koolaid]
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Matsuri on June 15, 2010, 05:10:40 PM
ALSO 3DS KID ICARUS

I have wanted a new Kid Icarus game since I was a little kid.

/me is in a starry-eyed state of reverie
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 05:11:29 PM
3DS NINTENCATS

FFFFFFUUUUUCK YEEEEESSSSS
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 05:13:36 PM
...

I'm not usually one for Nintendo's repetitive product placement but I will be first in line to get a 3DS.  Holy crap.

@TSO: C'mon, TWO cameras on the outside so you can take 3d pictures. :O :O  How awesome is this.

ALSO 3DS KID ICARUS

3DS Kid Icarus is huge but honestly?  Two cameras and a analog nub?  That's all we're getting?  Sorry I guess I was expecting something more gamechanging.  At this point Nintendo I was hoping (and they really really should) they'd put a GSM radio and a SIM slot in it.  Then I'd be all over it.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Silent Harmony on June 15, 2010, 05:16:37 PM
Considering my bad eyesight severely limits 3-D for me (9 times out of 10 it simply looks 2D), so I'm hesitant.

They're really pushing 3rd party, which was definitely the biggest question mark going in; at least they acknowledging it. If those games (Metal Gear, Kingdom Hearts, Resident Evil) can actually pull it off, even on just their handheld, it'd quiet a lot of worries.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 05:19:09 PM
Considering my bad eyesight severely limits 3-D for me (9 times out of 10 it simply looks 2D), so I'm hesitant.

They're really pushing 3rd party, which was definitely the biggest question mark going in; at least they acknowledging it. If those games (Metal Gear, Kingdom Hearts, Resident Evil) can actually pull it off, even on just their handheld, it'd quiet a lot of worries.

The problem with the "3D" part, is it's going to be a gimmick for 90% of the titles.  Just like the touch controls on the DS just ended up being painful gimmicks for all but a very few select titles.  At least with touch controls there's not much you can screw with except making all the buttons touch or requiring dumb stylus marks.  Being forced to use those plastic glasses to play the game?  No thanks.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 05:20:17 PM
A summary of the games displayed here. (http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c71692/media/image/201006/phpl3GfMkIMG_0123-W1000.jpg)

The problem with the "3D" part, is it's going to be a gimmick for 90% of the titles.  Just like the touch controls on the DS just ended up being painful gimmicks for all but a very few select titles.  At least with touch controls there's not much you can screw with except making all the buttons touch or requiring dumb stylus marks.  Being forced to use those plastic glasses to play the game?  No thanks.

Er, no glasses required.  That was the whole point.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 15, 2010, 05:21:08 PM
Considering my bad eyesight severely limits 3-D for me (9 times out of 10 it simply looks 2D), so I'm hesitant.
That's not a problem.  You can turn off the 3D stuff with a slider, anyway.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 05:24:05 PM
Er, no glasses required.  That was the whole point.

Oh I missed that.  Opinion slightly changed but not by much.  The "3D" effect gets old and frankly stereoscopic vision causes eyestrain much faster than normal flat projection.

That's not a problem.  You can turn off the 3D stuff with a slider, anyway.

But how many games are just going to look horrible with it off?  How many games can you play "without the touch controls" and end up just being a clunky mess?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: communist unity (comm-unity) on June 15, 2010, 05:24:10 PM
3DS. New Zelda (controls hopefully aren't as stiff as they seemed), Kid Icarus, Kirby Wii, Donkey Kong Country 4.

Hoooooly shit. :dragonforce:
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 05:26:31 PM
The "3D" effect gets old and frankly stereoscopic vision causes eyestrain much faster than normal flat projection.

This I'll agree with, but it remains to be seen what specifically they're going to accomplish with 3D, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

List o' features for 3DS:

Quote
? The Nintendo 3DS is black and blue
? As promised, this is a glasses-free 3D device
? Two cameras on the outside of the device for 3D picture taking
? 3D depth slider on the side of the device
? Round numb analog stick called the "Slide Pad"
? Bottom screen is a touch panel
? Below the touch screen are Select, Home and Start buttons
? Underneath the A, B, X, Y buttons is the handheld's power button
? Motion sensor and gyroscope
? Compatible with Nintendo DSi
? A camera facing the player above the portable's 3D screen
? The ability to play 3D Hollywood movies, like Legends of the Guardians from Warner Brothers
? The 3DS launch game will be Kid Icarus: Uprising
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Bananamatic on June 15, 2010, 05:34:11 PM
the power button part is interesting

Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 15, 2010, 05:37:05 PM
I'd be cool if the 3D part were nothing more than a marketing blurb, and will consider myself pleasantly surprised when a developer does something neat with it.

The hardware inside of the 3DS looks to have gotten a significant upgrade (probably a Tegra/Tegra 2 platform) and from what we've seen it looks like it is capable of pushing GCN visuals (and maybe better).
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 05:40:50 PM
capable of pushing GCN visuals

Hooray, Nintendo is finally getting close to the PSP's level.  Only took them how many years?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 05:42:18 PM
I'd be cool if the 3D part were nothing more than a marketing blurb, and will consider myself pleasantly surprised when a developer does something neat with it.

That's what I'm afraid of, it'll be more than a marketing blurb but noone will do anything neat with it other than IT'S IN 3DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Quote
The hardware inside of the 3DS looks to have gotten a significant upgrade (probably a Tegra/Tegra 2 platform) and from what we've seen it looks like it is capable of pushing GCN visuals (and maybe better).

It's not Tegra.  Nvidia has already denied that rumor.  And it's not that hard to push "Gamecube level" graphics when you're at such a low resolution point that the 3DS is likely to run at.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nat Tea on June 15, 2010, 05:45:22 PM
That's what I'm afraid of, it'll be more than a marketing blurb but noone will do anything neat with it other than IT'S IN 3DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Maybe that's why I feel the 3DS sounds like a terrible idea.

Also, I'm blind enough already, gosh. Nintendo, are you actually unintentionally narrowing your audience I don't know

It's E3 right now, I'm just not feeling the excitement. Maybe I need to actually know what's cool in gaming.

I do like new Kirby (I mean, we've already got SNES Kirby: Super Star Ultra, GBA Kirby: Squeak Squad, and Touchscreen Kirby: Canvas Curse) and Golden Sun (we haven't seen you in how many years now) though!
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 05:53:46 PM
3DS launch/near launch title list.

Kid Icarus Uprising
Nintendogs + Cats
Metal Gear Solid
DJ Hero 3D
Professor Layton
Saints Row
Madden NFL
FIFA Soccer
Samurai Warriors 3D
Dead or Alive
Ninja Gaiden
Kingdom Hearts
Batman
Resident Evil Revelations
Street Fighter
Assassin's Creed: Lost Legacy
Ghost Recon
Splinter Cell
Ridge Racer
Starfox 64
Paper Mario
Luigi's Mansion

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm kind of getting sick of handhelds basically just being yesteryear's console titles reported with inferior resolution and controls.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nat Tea on June 15, 2010, 06:00:19 PM
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm kind of getting sick of handhelds basically just being yesteryear's console titles reported with inferior resolution and controls.
Man, remember during the good old days when they came out with new games that implemented new ideas that were always there but we never actually thought about, like those riddles that have complex descriptions and an answer that's very simple yet encompasses a lot?

Oh man!

Wait.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Bananamatic on June 15, 2010, 06:02:26 PM
It's E3 right now, I'm just not feeling the excitement. Maybe I need to actually know what's cool in gaming.
same here

1) no way I can afford it
2) the improvement is just in graphics. I don't give a shit about 3D, I just want a game which is balanced, fun, and playable


also lol kingdom hearts
no proper game in ages, just handheld rushed sidegames with buttonmashy gameplay hoping to feed off the fanboys
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 06:04:43 PM
Man, remember during the good old days when they came out with new games that implemented new ideas that were always there but we never actually thought about, like those riddles that have complex descriptions and an answer that's very simple yet encompasses a lot?

Oh man!

Wait.

In the Gameboy age?  Fuck yeah.  Games were original because the hardware was nowhere near as powerful as home consoles, and thus there was no room for ports except for the simplest of titles.  With the GBA is when the trend really started reversing and it just ended up being a bunch of reports of yesteryear titles.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nat Tea on June 15, 2010, 06:05:34 PM
In the Gameboy age?  Fuck yeah.  Games were original because the hardware was nowhere near as powerful as home consoles, and thus there was no room for ports except for the simplest of titles.  With the GBA is when the trend really started reversing and it just ended up being a bunch of reports of yesteryear titles.
Now it's all about NEW AGE GRAPHICS ON OLD RETRO GAMES.

Gosh, we're old. and cynical.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Sana on June 15, 2010, 06:08:51 PM
What the heck is with SFIV: THE 3D EDITION :V

Anyway, the new Kirby game looks really nice, but I didn't see Kirby acquire any abilities :<
Unless that little Kirbycar was Wheel and the UFO ability is a lot different now :S
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 06:10:54 PM

Oh fuck yessssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

EDIT: oh god it's an MMOFPS yesssssssssssssssssssssssss
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Bananamatic on June 15, 2010, 06:12:30 PM
But is it in 3D?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: communist unity (comm-unity) on June 15, 2010, 06:25:18 PM
Apparently the paper mario title is a new game in the series that's an RPG.
i'm sold.

no way in hell I'll be able to afford this stuff, though.  :ohdear:
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Fruggles on June 15, 2010, 06:29:11 PM
YES GOLDEN SUN!
Kirby looks really fun, though it looks like he won't have a sucking ability, but can still transform.
I really hope that was really interference during the Zelda demo, which it looks like it was, because the video after the demo looked much more smooth.
I'm still hesitant on the Metroid game as it looks like the 3rd person part will be extremely fast paced.
Yay a DK game~
Much more yay for a Kid Icarus game.... in 3D!
The 3DS will be amazing, end story.
Nintendo had a great lineup this year, with many game. All I'm wondering is, unless I missed it, they never said the realease date for the 3DS...
Ugh, I'm going to have to wait really get some money this year.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Garlyle on June 15, 2010, 06:34:21 PM
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'm kind of getting sick of handhelds basically just being yesteryear's console titles reported with inferior resolution and controls.
You need to play different handheld games then.

Also

http://press.nintendo.com/E32010/3DS/FACT_E3_UpcomingGames_3DS.pdf
Username is guest, password is nintendo.
Terribly creative, I know.

Holy crap those games ASDFGH
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 06:48:18 PM
Persona 3DS and SRW 3DS.

Yep... I'm hosed.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 15, 2010, 06:52:39 PM
Is it just me or does the new Kirby game look... kind of disappointing? :x I guess I haven't really seen enough of it to make a final decision, but it seems like it's going to turn out to be a gimmicky spinoff ie Canvas Curse. Oh well.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: theshirn on June 15, 2010, 06:56:29 PM
Persona 3DS
:o
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: JT on June 15, 2010, 06:58:14 PM
DKC reboot! Kirby! Kid Icarus! New Metroid and Golden Sun footage! OH GOD THAT LIST OF 3DS GAMES FUCK

Jesus Christ Nintendo. Stop it. I'm excited enough already, stop announcing shit. Shut the fuck up before I have a heart attack.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Ghaleon on June 15, 2010, 07:11:56 PM
Really new originality in games is pretty overrated at this point IMO. It's very hard to come up with something completely new without using some new hardware gimmick or whatever. I think games can be fun or whatever without having some amazing new concept. Golden sun is a good example IMO. The most original thing they have in that game is the ability to summon spells at the cost of your stats temporarily, which is quite honestly not exactly major or groundbreaking, and hardly what makes the game.

I too AM tired of handheld games having an inordinate amount of games meant to be on a TV console dumbed down though. But handhelds still have plenty of great titles themselves, and most of them give you the same golden age of gaming feeling you did back in the gold old SNES days.

But anyway, HOLY SHIT KID ICARUS!?!? I thought I was the only person on the planet that remembered that one! I *STILL* have nightmares about those damn eggplant men in 3-4!
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on June 15, 2010, 07:25:19 PM
(after seeing Persona for 3DS)

WHY DID I HAVE TO BUY MY DSi?

I actually wonder, if the 3DS games can be also played without 3D, can you play 3DS games on older DS systems?

50 dollars if the answer is "No".
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 07:30:07 PM
(after seeing Persona for 3DS)

WHY DID I HAVE TO BUY MY DSi?

I actually wonder, if the 3DS games can be also played without 3D, can you play 3DS games on older DS systems?

50 dollars if the answer is "No".

Of course not.  The 3DS has a much more powerful processor/GPU than the DS.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 07:31:19 PM
I too AM tired of handheld games having an inordinate amount of games meant to be on a TV console dumbed down though.

This is starting to seriously irritate me.  Peace Walker would be fantastic if the limited PSP controls weren't so fucking awful.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nat Tea on June 15, 2010, 07:31:47 PM
I actually wonder, if the 3DS games can be also played without 3D, can you play 3DS games on older DS systems?
Backwards compatibility is dull edge technology.

Really new originality in games is pretty overrated at this point IMO. It's very hard to come up with something completely new without using some new hardware gimmick or whatever. I think games can be fun or whatever without having some amazing new concept. Golden sun is a good example IMO. The most original thing they have in that game is the ability to summon spells at the cost of your stats temporarily, which is quite honestly not exactly major or groundbreaking, and hardly what makes the game.

I too AM tired of handheld games having an inordinate amount of games meant to be on a TV console dumbed down though. But handhelds still have plenty of great titles themselves, and most of them give you the same golden age of gaming feeling you did back in the gold old SNES days.
Yesssss. It's just that if they make it for the handheld, they should make it feel like it's a handheld game and also implement more things that you wanted to put into the game when you were a kid.

Of course, I'm terrible because I actually compared the DS to the Atari because of the massive pile of shovelware and the lack of Nintendo's seal of approval.

Persona 3DS and SRW 3DS.

Yep... I'm hosed.
:o
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on June 15, 2010, 07:33:13 PM
Of course not.  The 3DS has a much more powerful processor/GPU than the DS.
Just as I thought. Now I can wait many years until I get enough money for a 3DS and basically every game Atlus will release for it...
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: theshirn on June 15, 2010, 07:37:03 PM
Welp, my DS's L button is breaking anyway.  Assuming I get a friggin' job, I know what at least one of my purchases is going to be.

(Another is a hexacore processor...mmm, hexacore.)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 07:39:39 PM
I'm not a big fan of any of this motion control stuff, but Sony's does appear to blow its competitors outta the water.

(Also... a Sly Cooper/Ratchet & Clank/Jak & Daxter crossover... jesus.)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 15, 2010, 07:40:16 PM
Just as I thought. Now I can wait many years until I get enough money for a 3DS and basically every game Atlus will release for it...
Hah!  You think Atlus is going to print enough copies for you to either a) find new ones years after the fact, or b) have used copies at a reasonable price?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: theshirn on June 15, 2010, 07:45:38 PM
Hah!  You think Atlus is going to print enough copies for you to either a) find new ones years after the fact, or b) have used copies at a reasonable price?
...damnit Atlus.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on June 15, 2010, 07:49:59 PM
Hah!  You think Atlus is going to print enough copies for you to either a) find new ones years after the fact, or b) have used copies at a reasonable price?
I saw Digital Devil Saga 2 a few days ago. New. So Yeah.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 15, 2010, 07:55:40 PM
Okami for DS :o
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 08:03:52 PM
I saw Digital Devil Saga 2 a few days ago. New. So Yeah.

They printed more copies of DDS2 than they did of DDS1.  Seriously.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Garlyle on June 15, 2010, 08:16:12 PM
I'm not a big fan of any of this motion control stuff, but Sony's does appear to blow its competitors outta the water.
Unfortunately none of the games look to have done anything interesting with it.
...I'm sure it could do something, but damn.

Also this conference has given me no enthusiasm for Sony.  Except Little Big Planet 2 being sort of awesome but I already knew about everything (Was just waiting for actual video)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 15, 2010, 08:16:24 PM
Wait, SSF4 for 3DS!?

Damn I've been waiting for a decent handheld fighter for ages (that's not for PSP >:D)
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 08:25:49 PM
rofl gabe showed up
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on June 15, 2010, 08:26:22 PM
They printed more copies of DDS2 than they did of DDS1.  Seriously.
...this is so strange, I have only one thing to say: Why?

On-topic: Suikama, don't tell me you didn't know of Okamiden until now?

...or is the original coming to the 3DS now as well?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 08:27:48 PM
Wait, wtf.

Portal 2 on PS3, with steam cloud + automated updates?

ffffffff
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 08:33:15 PM
:o :o :o :o :o

Sony just won this gen hands down.  Steam on PS3.  Jesus Christ that is a KILLER APP if there is a definition of one.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Bananamatic on June 15, 2010, 08:35:56 PM
wait so PS3 gets full TF2 while 360 gets nothing

lol ecksbawks
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: lumber_of_the_beast on June 15, 2010, 08:37:41 PM
Because Valve has such a great history of PS3 support :V

Also, is Ninty planning to implement a DLC transfer scheme beyond "buy everything again lol" this time?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 15, 2010, 08:39:20 PM
...this is so strange, I have only one thing to say: Why?

On-topic: Suikama, don't tell me you didn't know of Okamiden until now?
:derp:

Because Valve has such a great history of PS3 support :V

Also, is Ninty planning to implement a DLC transfer scheme beyond "buy everything again Ha ha, old chap!" this time?
Probably not :derp:
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 08:40:52 PM
GT5 finally got a release date - November 5.  About fucking time.

Because Valve has such a great history of PS3 support :V

I think that's why they dragged Gabe out on stage and made jokes about how he used to hate the PS3 until SONY GAVE HIM DOLLARS and now Steam is on PS3.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 08:45:24 PM
Bwahahaha yes Twisted Metal PS3.  About freakin' time.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 08:46:03 PM
Because Valve has such a great history of PS3 support :V

Also, is Ninty planning to implement a DLC transfer scheme beyond "buy everything again lol" this time?

That's the best part.  Valve and MS were basically butt buddies.  But MS went stupid about the DLC thing and wanted to charge 360 owners for what Valve was giving on the PC for free.  Bandwidth wasn't even an issue, Valve has the system to handle it and all MS needed to do was let them hook in.  MS wanted to control the whole kit and demand payment and get a cut out of what Valve wants to give for free.

If MS hadn't done that, we'd be talking about Steam on 360, not Steam on PS3.  Valve wanted nothing to do with the PS3, the arch was too different and they treated it as a second-class citizen.  They didn't even do any of the ports inhouse like they did for the 360, they let EA fumble with it.  And now there's been a complete 180 and Valve is doing everything by hand for the PS3.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Garlyle on June 15, 2010, 08:48:28 PM
:o :o :o :o :o

Sony just won this gen hands down.  Steam on PS3.  Jesus Christ that is a KILLER APP if there is a definition of one.
No, no it isn't.  Especially considering it doesn't offer anything the PSN doesn't already have.

Also I think something's been misinterpreted, because the people I was watching it with sure don't remember Steam being brought over and all I remember is "steam functionality".
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: lumber_of_the_beast on June 15, 2010, 08:49:03 PM
Also, since I'm not actually watching E3 due to poor internet and other people taking the TV, just what does Steam on PS3 offer over Steam on PC?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 15, 2010, 08:56:02 PM
No, no it isn't.  Especially considering it doesn't offer anything the PSN doesn't already have.

I... don't think you understand the kind of impact Steamworks has.  It is singlehandedly saving the PC gaming platform.  It is bringing a whole new distribution platform for indy devs.

The Steam name alone brings a lot of  weight and advertisement.  The fact that PS3 is now a first-class citizen of one of the biggest independent dev houses is ridiculous.  The rest is just gravy.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 15, 2010, 08:58:05 PM
Quote from: Garlyle
...Which means we can expect Sony to show off a crapload of games but only have one actual announcement that will make any impact, and Nintendo to bring its fans to its knees with tears of shame - and then tears of pure joy.

Also Kojima trolling someone again.

True, we still have one prediction left, but since when HASN'T Kojima trolled people?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Helion on June 15, 2010, 09:11:46 PM
/v/ is in an uproar about Valve's surprise. I still think it might be a good thing they make Portal 2 for PS3, it has no games after all  :V
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Silent Harmony on June 15, 2010, 09:13:27 PM
When Valve said that they had a surprise for E3....wow I wasn't expecting that! Sony really closed that out well. GT5, Steam (and Portal 2), Twisted Metal 3 (though I've never played the first two, the audience sure seemed pumped up).

They really emphasized Move, to the surprise of nobody. It looks like it has potential, if the 1:1 isn't a joke, but nothing truly wowed me. Until then it's just another Wii rip-off competitor, no matter what they force Butler to say.

Also I was surprised by how little MGS was mentioned, unless I missed something. Even Nintendo seemed to give Kojima more screen time. :/
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Garlyle on June 15, 2010, 09:19:35 PM
I... don't think you understand the kind of impact Steamworks has.  It is singlehandedly saving the PC gaming platform.  It is bringing a whole new distribution platform for indy devs.

The Steam name alone brings a lot of  weight and advertisement.  The fact that PS3 is now a first-class citizen of one of the biggest independent dev houses is ridiculous.  The rest is just gravy.
Unfortunately, Steam coming to PS3 isn't what's going on.  The only thing that's known for sure is that you'll have chat and connectivity features with Steam like as if you're playing on your PC, while playing Portal 2 on the PS3.

No sign of anything actual meaningful content-wise or even beyond the scope of Portal 2.

And before you say "Hey, I don't believe you, where's your source", keep in mind that you're making the far bigger claim, especially considering as how the Steam functionality was barely even mentioned - an announcement of "We're bringing Steam to PS3!" magnitude would not have been passed over so lightly.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 15, 2010, 09:29:04 PM
Unfortunately, Steam coming to PS3 isn't what's going on.  The only thing that's known for sure is that you'll have chat and connectivity features with Steam like as if you're playing on your PC, while playing Portal 2 on the PS3.

No sign of anything actual meaningful content-wise or even beyond the scope of Portal 2.

Er, that IS, effectively, Steam.

TSO wasn't implying that PS3 would be getting the full deployment of Steam games, obviously.  But Steam will be supported on PS3 in terms of in-game chat, content distribution (patches), etc.  This is very very big.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Garlyle on June 15, 2010, 09:30:50 PM
Er, that IS, effectively, Steam.

TSO wasn't implying that PS3 would be getting the full deployment of Steam games, obviously.  But Steam will be supported on PS3 in terms of in-game chat, content distribution (patches), etc.  This is very very big.
For one game.

And unless I missed something, these are things already handled by the PSN; the only difference is that it's cross-connected with PC.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Bananamatic on June 15, 2010, 09:37:50 PM
For one game.

And unless I missed something, these are things already handled by the PSN; the only difference is that it's cross-connected with PC.
tf2tf2tf2tf2tf2
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Garlyle on June 15, 2010, 09:39:29 PM
tf2tf2tf2tf2tf2
I missed the part where they announced they were going to update PS3's TF2, then.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on June 15, 2010, 09:44:22 PM
On GS: Dark Dawn -

FFFFUCK YEEEEAAAHHHH~!!!
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 15, 2010, 09:53:36 PM
I missed the part where they announced they were going to update PS3's TF2, then.
They didn't.  They said Steamworks for Portal 2, and nothing more.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Cadmas on June 15, 2010, 10:14:35 PM
Bwahahaha yes Twisted Metal PS3.  About freakin' time.

Bah if I had a PS3 and just this game I would be happy for a long while.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Ghaleon on June 15, 2010, 10:27:23 PM
You think MS would know better considering that's why Sony pretty much "beat" nintendo to begin with during their first generation. Nintendo being greedy nazis and Sony being less nazi-ish I mean
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 15, 2010, 10:38:34 PM
Bwahahaha yes Twisted Metal PS3.  About freakin' time.
Oh wow how long as it been :o
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Cadmas on June 15, 2010, 11:30:31 PM
Oh wow how long as it been :o

Been 9 years since twisted metal black.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: WHMZakeri on June 16, 2010, 04:11:30 AM
This (http://e3.nintendo.com/wii/game/?g=kirby) Is the cutest thing in the history of ever.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: orinrin on June 16, 2010, 05:16:13 AM
This (http://e3.nintendo.com/wii/game/?g=kirby) Is the cutest thing in the history of ever.
KIIIIIIIIIIRBY!!!   :* :* :*


I wish I remembered to register for E3.   :(
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: JT on June 16, 2010, 05:50:55 AM
This (http://e3.nintendo.com/wii/game/?g=kirby) Is the cutest thing in the history of ever.

Is it weird that this game reminds me more of Yoshi's Island than of any actual Kirby game? Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nobu on June 16, 2010, 06:47:20 AM
Nah, kinda reminds me of YI too. I don't know how much I like the looks of see-through outline Kirby, but the gameplay looks pretty great.


Also really late to the party, but zomg Persona.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: N-Forza on June 16, 2010, 10:49:07 AM
Buying a 3DS SO


HARD
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: ?q on June 16, 2010, 12:12:51 PM
Is it weird that this game reminds me more of Yoshi's Island than of any actual Kirby game? Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing.
You mean Yoshi's Story?  (except without the yoshis singing thank god)

At first I wasn't sure what I thought of the graphics, but I think I like the art style.  I don't know how much the yarn concept will allow for difficulty, though.

I'm fairly impressed with this year's E3.  There are finally a few games that may be worth buying again.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Formless God on June 16, 2010, 12:24:42 PM
What the hell is Portal doing on PS3 aaargharhaghhgrhagh
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Zengar Zombolt on June 16, 2010, 12:27:36 PM
SRW 3DS.
I came
so hard
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 16, 2010, 01:07:33 PM
The Kirby game is adorable and a mustbuy for me.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 16, 2010, 01:57:40 PM
The Kirby game is adorable and a mustbuy for me.
But will still probably come with Angry American Kirby box art :3
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 16, 2010, 02:11:10 PM
But will still probably come with Angry American Kirby box art :3

Then I import silly Japanese version just to get the better boxart BV
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 16, 2010, 03:58:56 PM
Pretty sure this was announced at E3, but this is a good a place for it as any:

Valkyria Chronicles 2, Stateside by the end of August.

<3<3<3
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 16, 2010, 06:27:32 PM
So apparently Miyamoto's fuckups with the Wii Zelda demo was just good old-fashioned interference.
http://www.giantbomb.com/news/what-its-like-to-play-the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword/2188/

Still looks ugly as hell, but I guess the motion is decent afterall.  Horray?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 16, 2010, 06:36:58 PM
lol Old Link + Wind Waker graphics
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Mounting Jaggis on June 16, 2010, 06:44:29 PM
It's like they put OoT, TP, and WW in a blender
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 16, 2010, 06:46:49 PM
It's like they put OoT, TP, and WW in a blender

Mind you, all 3 of those are good on their own, but together it just looks... odd as fuck.  The low res of the Wii isn't helping at all.  You got superrealistic Link with superdeformed monsters and terrain.  It's just full of juxtapositions and style clashes.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 16, 2010, 07:54:22 PM
From the my face is now a puddle category,
El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron

Game is being led by one of the key character creators and animators for DMC/Okami/Steel Battalion.  I am in awe.  I want this game.  I am tripping the fuck out.  Oh and there will be no HUD in this game at all.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 16, 2010, 08:10:03 PM
Hermaphrodites in games, huh.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nat Tea on June 16, 2010, 08:51:26 PM
Hermaphrodites in games, huh.
New and original concept.

Like visual novels.

:smug:
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 16, 2010, 09:35:12 PM
(http://i46.tinypic.com/28lctqt.jpg)

welp
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 16, 2010, 09:39:12 PM
It's like they put OoT, TP, and WW in a blender
I don't consider that a bad thing, though hopefully they take another few steps back from the "realism" side of things.  A small detail in the images we've seen is that instead of fading out images in the distance they take on a watercolor-ish appearance.  I like.

Hermaphrodites in games, huh.
Didn't we already have this in Nier?

3DS bit from Jeremy Perish (relevant to some posters ITT):

Quote
After yesterday's collective industry boondoggle, I was not looking forward to seeing Nintendo's E3 press conference. With 3DS on its way, things were just destined to make me angry. I mean, I've got really crappy eyes thanks to losing the genetic lottery, and 3D effects just don't work for me. Even when I can visualize them, they give me a headache in short order. That Crysis 2 demo at EA's conference yesterday made my skull go from zero to explode in about five seconds. And now Nintendo is inflicting a platform built entirely around 3D on us? Honestly, I was taking it as a personal affront.

Then I actually got to use the 3DS, and... wow. It works. It doesn't strain my eyes at all, yet I can absolutely see the depth. I'm not exaggerating that the realization that my poor eyesight won't shut me out of the next generation of portable gaming was the single happiest moment I've ever had at a gaming industry event. It's one thing to see cool new games -- speaking of which, finally! Kid Icarus! -- but another thing entirely to learn I am not suddenly biologically obsolete.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Edible on June 16, 2010, 09:46:32 PM
3DS bit from Jeremy Perish (relevant to some posters ITT):

Relevant to me, actually - my eyesight is rather remarkably effed up, and I have never been able to properly discern 3D through things like those Magic Eye books and whatnot.

I actually own Jeremy Parish's copy of Guilty Gear X on Dreamcast. <_<
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Cadmas on June 16, 2010, 11:41:22 PM
Enoch looks like a Guildwars paragon. Whats with all these biblical based games all a sudden?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 16, 2010, 11:48:05 PM
Enoch looks like a Guildwars paragon. Whats with all these biblical based games all a sudden?

Japanese have always had this rotating mythology hardon.  A few years ago it was Norse, then Greco-Roman, now Judeo-Christian.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: JT on June 17, 2010, 12:48:30 AM
3DS bit from Jeremy Perish (relevant to some posters ITT):

This is good news, but I'm still really curious as to how exactly the 3D effect actually works. I feel like they're being kind of vague about it.

Also, some guy from Kotaku played the Zelda demo and said the controls are fine. Apparently during the conference all the cameras and cellphones in the room were polluting the infrared or something.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Mounting Jaggis on June 17, 2010, 02:45:29 AM
This is good news, but I'm still really curious as to how exactly the 3D effect actually works. I feel like they're being kind of vague about it.

I was thinking that maybe the 3DS's screen is made out of whatever 3D glasses are or something like that
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Naut on June 17, 2010, 02:59:28 AM
Kirby game looks pretty neat, but even more cutsie than usual. Also, Drake pointed out:
<Drake>   i'm still unsure about abilities and eating things
<Drake>   i have not seen any eating

Which I'm kinda worried about too. Ah well, a new Kirby platformer is bound to be awesome.

The 3DS having a "3D depth slider" option makes it worth the purchase, methinks. This "400 pixels allocated to each eye" thing had me skeptical, but the 3D depth slider makes it pretty reasonable. Turn off that 3D garbage if you don't want it, or just tone it down if you're getting a headache.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nat Tea on June 17, 2010, 03:03:32 AM
I still don't like the 3DS because I don't know, I feel like it's just saying "the DS was nothing, WE'VE GOT SOMETHING NEW" in just two years? Maybe I'm just picky with money.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Kilgamayan on June 17, 2010, 03:05:52 AM
More Skyward Sword gameplay. (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5673/skywardbzzzz.jpg)

Also I watched that El Shaddai trailer and did not once hear the hymn of that name. Son, I am disappoint.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: The Greatest Dog on June 17, 2010, 03:06:40 AM
Kirby game looks pretty neat, but even more cutsie than usual. Also, Drake pointed out:
<Drake>   i'm still unsure about abilities and eating things
<Drake>   i have not seen any eating

Which I'm kinda worried about too. Ah well, a new Kirby platformer is bound to be awesome.

Kirby seems to hold enemies above his head in a sphere before he tosses them, so maybe he just injests them but not inhales. Like Kirby 64, or something.

That being said, since Kirby has the ability to float down slowly, he might not be able to fly infinitely.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Suikama on June 17, 2010, 03:11:17 AM
I still don't like the 3DS because I don't know, I feel like it's just saying "the DS was nothing, WE'VE GOT SOMETHING NEW" in just two years? Maybe I'm just picky with money.
The DS first came out 6 years ago :V

More Skyward Sword gameplay. (http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5673/skywardbzzzz.jpg)

Also I watched that El Shaddai trailer and did not once hear the hymn of that name. Son, I am disappoint.
ahahahaha oh you
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 17, 2010, 03:15:35 AM
Kirby game looks pretty neat, but even more cutsie than usual. Also, Drake pointed out:
<Drake>   i'm still unsure about abilities and eating things
<Drake>   i have not seen any eating

Which I'm kinda worried about too. Ah well, a new Kirby platformer is bound to be awesome.

The 3DS having a "3D depth slider" option makes it worth the purchase, methinks. This "400 pixels allocated to each eye" thing had me skeptical, but the 3D depth slider makes it pretty reasonable. Turn off that 3D garbage if you don't want it, or just tone it down if you're getting a headache.

The 400 pixels to each eye is garbage.  They're just doing bullshit handwaving claiming each eye is a separate image.  Basically all they're doing is taking a 800x480 screen, and interleaving every other pixel and polarizing it so it shows the two split images.  So imagine a checkerboard where every white space is polarized to show up in your left eye, and every black space is polarized to show up in your right.  That's basically how the 3D effect works.  So in reality you're getting a quarter of the quality as much as you would have normally gotten.  Honestly it's the most disappointing thing of the 3DS, how stupid low the resolution is.  It's frankly cheating.  They can claim the graphics are "PS3" quality, but that's only because the screen has such a low ass resolution.  It's not that hard to drive a crappy GPU at 400x240.

It's honestly a huge step backwards.  Really handheld resolutions that low are painful to look at nowadays, especially considering most smartphones easily double or triple that resolution.  Hell the PSP still has a higher resolution and better GPU than the 3DS, and it's what, 5-6 years old now?  Fuck this 3D gimmick, they should have just made the screen 800x480 and left it 2D and it would have been so much better.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nat Tea on June 17, 2010, 03:16:46 AM
The DS first came out 6 years ago :V
I feel old now.

Kirby seems to hold enemies above his head in a sphere before he tosses them, so maybe he just injests them but not inhales. Like Kirby 64, or something.
Klonoa?!
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Matsuri on June 17, 2010, 03:30:43 AM
I feel old now.

I can make you feel older.

Pok?mon Red/Blue came out in the US nearly 12 years ago.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: The Greatest Dog on June 17, 2010, 03:38:38 AM
I take back what I said before about Kirby.

Quote
Thanks to his versatile yarn composition, Kirby can take on a variety of forms both in his common actions and when he transforms into powerful vehicles. When Kirby dashes, he zips around as a car. In water, he turns into a submarine. At times he can even transform into a massive robotic tank, a UFO and other vehicles.

Ability copying seems to be nonexistent.

But...

Quote
Two players can play through the entire game together (additional accessories required and are sold separately).
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 17, 2010, 04:01:46 AM
Aww no more Kirby vacuum, but the co-op is nice.  It still looks absolutely adorable.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Matsuri on June 17, 2010, 04:14:10 AM
I don't see why it's such a big deal to leave abilities and stuff out of Kirby. Using the same formula would definitely get stale after so long, so I'm willing to welcome something new-- especially since I find the game itself to be so charming <3
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Third Eye Lem on June 17, 2010, 08:11:12 AM
I don't see why it's such a big deal to leave abilities and stuff out of Kirby. Using the same formula would definitely get stale after so long, so I'm willing to welcome something new-- especially since I find the game itself to be so charming <3
Indeed, but in all honesty I was hoping for that Super Star-style game that was announced for the Gamecube a while ago. Maybe it mutated into this?

As for the other games...

Golden Sun DS- Looks nice, but I'm gonna miss the 2D style of the other two. Let's hope the plot holds up this time, the previous one left some threads hanging.

Donkey Kong Country Returns- I know I'm not a DK fan but OMG I WANT THIS GAME SO BADLY. It looks incredibly badass.

Need for Speed Hot Pursuit- I loved the original NFSHP, and this one looks like a lot of fun too.

Metroid Other M- Some may be skeptical of the new control scheme, but I'm willing to give it a shot. A Charge Beam shot! XP

Kid Icarus Uprising- Eh, I know people are gonna bawwww because it's not a 2D platformer, but I could care less because I'm not that interested in it (sorry, fans).

Zelda Skyward Sword- Looks nice, I like the mesh of TP's and WW's art styles. It sucks that you need the Wiimotion Plus, but eh. I live with it.

Sorcery- I was kind of "meh" about the whole PS Move thing, but after seeing this, I feel differently about it. It's nice you can cast spells without consuming MP, more games need to cut the resource link like this one!

Rabbids Travel Through Time- At first, I was all like "are they going into the internet now?" but then I saw the rest of it, and I LOL'd. Looks like fun, but we'll have to see.

Rayman Origins- Dammit, I missed this one. All I know is that it's 2D. Ubisoft better not mess it up.

Mario Sports- Eh, new sports are nice but I never really got into this game series.

Bulletstorm- The only FPS worth my eyes, it looks like fun. I just hope we won't end up trying to leech every enemy for skill points, that's never fun.

Overall, E3 put on a good show. I didn't see the Microsoft stuff, sadly, but I can live with that.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Helion on June 17, 2010, 10:15:28 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtKMqdMWNec

Konami did the funniest thing, I think.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 17, 2010, 11:19:08 AM
Basically all they're doing is taking a 800x480 screen, and interleaving every other pixel and polarizing it so it shows the two split images.  So imagine a checkerboard where every white space is polarized to show up in your left eye, and every black space is polarized to show up in your right.  That's basically how the 3D effect works.  So in reality you're getting a quarter of the quality as much as you would have normally gotten.
Half.  The display is 800x240, the horizontal resolution is what is split between your eyes.

Quote
Honestly it's the most disappointing thing of the 3DS, how stupid low the resolution is.  It's frankly cheating.  Hell the PSP still has a higher resolution and better GPU than the 3DS, and it's what, 5-6 years old now?  Fuck this 3D gimmick, they should have just made the screen 800x480 and left it 2D and it would have been so much better.
I'm not seeing this, especially your comments about the PSP.

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_1276659917486.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=1276659917486.png)

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_1276659502860.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=1276659502860.jpg)

Looks better than the PS2 and PSP IMO.

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_2lialnb.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=2lialnb.jpg)  (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_rub9qp.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=rub9qp.jpg)  (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_4rfbi9.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=4rfbi9.jpg)

Screen resolution only really matters to a point based on physical size and viewing distance.  As far as I'm concerned "high enough" of a resolution is one where jaggies aren't a problem when viewed in person, and AA can help with that as well.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 17, 2010, 01:49:54 PM
Half.  The display is 800x240, the horizontal resolution is what is split between your eyes.
I'm not seeing this, especially your comments about the PSP.

Oh so they're literally just doing "this half goes to your left, and this to your right" instead of interlacing?  That's retarded =|

Quote
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_1276659917486.png) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=1276659917486.png)

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_1276659502860.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=1276659502860.jpg)

Looks better than the PS2 and PSP IMO.

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_2lialnb.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=2lialnb.jpg)  (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_rub9qp.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=rub9qp.jpg)  (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_4rfbi9.jpg) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=4rfbi9.jpg)

Screen resolution only really matters to a point based on physical size and viewing distance.  As far as I'm concerned "high enough" of a resolution is one where jaggies aren't a problem when viewed in person, and AA can help with that as well.

No shit it looks better than the PSP/PS2, because it's running at HALF THE RESOLUTION.  It only has to render a little over a fourth the amount of pixels a PSP/PS2 has to.  And it does matter a lot IMHO.  My phone is 864x480 and I can definitely tell the distance hobbling over to my DS at a paltry 260x192.  Clever AA can't make up for the fact there just isn't that many pixels being rendered per frame.  It's low-resolution garbage IMHO, and it's nothing more than a marketing gimmick to say "IT'S BETTER THAN A PS2" or whatever.

We have the hardware and the screens to be able to push 800x480, and it's not much to ask for.  I'm not expecting 720p here.  Just maybe can we get a handheld that has the same level of hardware as a 10 year old console?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: lumber_of_the_beast on June 17, 2010, 02:42:06 PM
Meh. Looks fine to me.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 17, 2010, 03:16:33 PM
Oh so they're literally just doing "this half goes to your left, and this to your right" instead of interlacing?  That's retarded =|
Not really.  That's just how these things work, especially if they're using a parallax barrier.  I see no advantage in splitting the vertical resolution.  Interlacing is generally stupid and an artifact from the CRT era (that's why LCDs have to deinterlace material prior to being displayed, which gives you input lag).

Quote
It's low-resolution garbage IMHO
Then don't buy one.

Quote
We have the hardware and the screens to be able to push 800x480, and it's not much to ask for.  I'm not expecting 720p here.  Just maybe can we get a handheld that has the same level of hardware as a 10 year old console?
No.  There are practical concerns like battery life and cost.

Did you know that there was another handheld released around the same time as the DS that had a bigger high-resolution screen and PS2-ish graphics?  It's the failure known as the PSP.  They basically did what you are asking for, and the market didn't buy into it.  UMD as a format was a disaster.

Nintendo isn't stupid.  They do some really dumb things (the DS/Wii friend code bullshit), but they aren't going to push out another PSP/early-life PS3 (599 US Dollars) to the market.  Especially in this economy.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 17, 2010, 03:58:57 PM
Not really.  That's just how these things work, especially if they're using a parallax barrier.  I see no advantage in splitting the vertical resolution.  Interlacing is generally stupid and an artifact from the CRT era (that's why LCDs have to deinterlace material prior to being displayed, which gives you input lag).

Vertical resolution is better perceived than horizontal.  Adding a few pixels to each edge is negligable, it's the increase of vertical lines that makes a far bigger difference in detail.  As for the interlacing comment I was just unsure how they were delivering the two polarized images.  I just figured they were interlacing because 800x480 screens are far more common than an 800x240 one.

Quote
Then don't buy one.

I'm not at this point, as I'm not seeing any tangible upgrade over the DS other than 3DDDDDDDDD and a couple of crappy sub megapixel cameras.

Quote
No.  There are practical concerns like battery life and cost.

Hahahah cost.  Nintendo is the only console manufacturer that makes a profit off of hardware sales.  Both Sony and MS sell their consoles below cost and make the margin up with software sales.  Cost isn't even a factor here.  And the only reason they're able to do that is because they're using outdated tech and slapping on a few gimmicks and claiming it's NEW AND EXCITING.  It's not that hard to make an obscene profit margin on hardware when you're not actually doing anything new.

As for battery life, that point is moot too.  Anything over 8 hours is frankly unnecessary.  Since the GBA we've been using rechargable batteries for handhelds.  There's no need for a handheld that gets 72 hours between charges when at most 1% of owners would be without a means to charge it for that long.

Quote
Did you know that there was another handheld released around the same time as the DS that had a bigger high-resolution screen and PS2-ish graphics?  It's the failure known as the PSP.  They basically did what you are asking for, and the market didn't buy into it.  UMD as a format was a disaster.

Failure?  UMD only failed as a MOVIE format.  It's done very well as a game media format.  It is still very much cost competitive with the flash media the 3DS is going to use.  If you consider that Nintendo has basically been the undisputed ruler of handhelds since the Gameboy came out in the 80s, having a handheld that didn't immediately flop in 3 months is amazing.  The PSP has carved out a decent market and is doing very well for itself.  It is still getting regular titles, and is now even getting a replacement in development.

Quote
Nintendo isn't stupid.  They do some really dumb things (the DS/Wii friend code bullshit), but they aren't going to push out another PSP/early-life PS3 (599 US Dollars) to the market.  Especially in this economy.

Maybe I'm just yearning for the old Nintendo that actually used to push the barriers of console tech instead of packaging last decade's tech with a few marketing gimmicks.  Between the Wii and this, I am frankly sick of Nintendo's new "models".  The N64 was the first truely 3D console, and first to embrace multiple movement inputs (DPad  + analog stick).  The DS was revolutionary when it came out.  Noone had done a touchscreen on a handheld, let alone two screens.  And both were probably the most powerful members of their respective generations in terms of graphical horsepower.

3D?  It's just the latest marketing fad that has pushed through Hollywood and will eventually be ignored.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Nobu on June 17, 2010, 04:01:08 PM
It's the failure known as the PSP.

Hey, don't be ragging on my portable Monster Hunter machine. :derp:
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Formless God on June 17, 2010, 04:24:57 PM
http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265927/
http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265926/

This looks ... sick :o
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 17, 2010, 04:44:00 PM
Vertical resolution is better perceived than horizontal.  Adding a few pixels to each edge is negligable, it's the increase of vertical lines that makes a far bigger difference in detail.
I don't see that being the case.  Pixel density, on the other hand...
Quote
As for the interlacing comment I was just unsure how they were delivering the two polarized images.  I just figured they were interlacing because 800x480 screens are far more common than an 800x240 one.
This is just a guess based on the fact that this method would play nicely with the slider that lets you adjust the effect:

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/th_paral.gif) (http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/Barrakketh/temp/?action=view&current=paral.gif)

Quote
Hahahah cost.  Nintendo is the only console manufacturer that makes a profit off of hardware sales.  Both Sony and MS sell their consoles below cost and make the margin up with software sales.  Cost isn't even a factor here.
Sure it is.  Cost control is how Nintendo prints money.  It's how they still made a profit during the N64 and GCN eras and kept afloat as a company.  Smart business practices are why Nintendo has had one unprofitable quarter in the history of the company.

You say Sony and MS make up the margin with software sales, but that's a short sighted view of things.  It took Sony and Microsoft years to turn a profit, and just because they eventually started making money (as opposed to losing it) doesn't mean much when you consider how much they lost.  Sony basically lost all of the money they made during the PS2 era because of the PS3 and then some, and still haven't (and probably never will) make it back.  The 360 isn't much better off.

If neither company had other divisions to prop up their gaming business they would be dead.  Nintendo does gaming and only gaming.  They don't sell operating systems or music players or TVs.

Quote
As for battery life, that point is moot too.  Anything over 8 hours is frankly unnecessary.  Since the GBA we've been using rechargable batteries for handhelds.  There's no need for a handheld that gets 72 hours between charges when at most 1% of owners would be without a means to charge it for that long.
We had first-party rechargeable solutions for the original Gameboy.  It was an external battery that you plugged into the power adapter slot.

But you say "anything over 8 hours" is unnecessary and seemingly forget how poor the PSP's battery life is.  One of the early (if not launch) racing games would kill the battery within two and a half hours if were using the wireless.

Depending on the CPU needs of the game, wireless use, and UMD use, it can kill its battery pretty quickly.  I know there are ways to run games off of the memory stick, but last I checked that's generally used by pirates and not an official installation method for UMD games.

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Failure?  UMD only failed as a MOVIE format.  It's done very well as a game media format.  It is still very much cost competitive with the flash media the 3DS is going to use.
Done "very well"?  I guess you could say that "it works" for the PSP but other then cost I don't see it having any advantages over the DS/3DS cards, and the 3DS cards available for developers at launch will have more capacity than a dual-layer UMD disc.

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If you consider that Nintendo has basically been the undisputed ruler of handhelds since the Gameboy came out in the 80s, having a handheld that didn't immediately flop in 3 months is amazing.  The PSP has carved out a decent market and is doing very well for itself.  It is still getting regular titles, and is now even getting a replacement in development.
It's market is a bit strange, because the PSP hardware is far more popular than software sales would suggest.  Which is to say that piracy far outstrips software sales, and PSPs jailbroken for homebrew and emulation use seem to be more common than stock PSPs.

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Maybe I'm just yearning for the old Nintendo that actually used to push the barriers of console tech instead of packaging last decade's tech with a few marketing gimmicks.  Between the Wii and this, I am frankly sick of Nintendo's new "models".  The N64 was the first truely 3D console, and first to embrace multiple movement inputs (DPad  + analog stick).  The DS was revolutionary when it came out.  Noone had done a touchscreen on a handheld, let alone two screens.  And both were probably the most powerful members of their respective generations in terms of graphical horsepower.
While waggle is generally overrated, the pointer on the Wi remote is the controller's best feature.  It's a far better FPS controller than dual-analog and second only to the keyboard and mouse IMO.

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3D?  It's just the latest marketing fad that has pushed through Hollywood and will eventually be ignored.
We'll see how well that statement holds up after the 3DS comes out.  People were ragging on the DS's touchscreen and waggle when the Wii came out, and both are huge successes.

Hey, don't be ragging on my portable Monster Hunter machine. :derp:
Hey, it gets some good exclusives :V
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 17, 2010, 05:59:48 PM
I don't see that being the case.  Pixel density, on the other hand...This is just a guess based on the fact that this method would play nicely with the slider that lets you adjust the effect:

It's been proven in multiple double blind trials that people notice changes in vertical resolution far more than horizontal resolution.  And at the viewing distance you're playing a handheld at a vast majority can tell the difference between 240 lines of vertical resolution and 720 or even 480.  You would have to be about 10 feet away from the console screen to not be able to perceive the difference between 240 and 480.

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Sure it is.  Cost control is how Nintendo prints money.  It's how they still made a profit during the N64 and GCN eras and kept afloat as a company.  Smart business practices are why Nintendo has had one unprofitable quarter in the history of the company.

Yet even with "cost controls" the N64 was still a revolutionary console.  The GCN was a little more conservative but it also came into the game later and had the benefit of watching how badly the PS2 was doing with wonky architectures.  The Wii adds nothing to the table other than waggle and is just an overclocked GCN.  Even though the SNES is basically the same thing (an overclocked NES), it at least added revolutionary new 2D methods like Mode7.

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You say Sony and MS make up the margin with software sales, but that's a short sighted view of things.  It took Sony and Microsoft years to turn a profit, and just because they eventually started making money (as opposed to losing it) doesn't mean much when you consider how much they lost.  Sony basically lost all of the money they made during the PS2 era because of the PS3 and then some, and still haven't (and probably never will) make it back.  The 360 isn't much better off.

A friend of mine (and a huge finance/econ buff), explained to me pretty clearly what Sony is doing for the PS3.  It knew it was going to be a painful painful transition to a new platform, especially one so markedly different than the previous gen.  So it hedged its bets on this gen being a shakedown.  It bought into Cell, and promoted the fuck out of it.  It now owns a foundry just for producing them.  And now third parties have started getting used to the PS3's architecture.  The Move release seems half-assed because it is half-assed, it's literally just a trial run.  They're basically just marketing it as Wii HD, to tap into the market Nintendo is intentionally leaving behind with their inferior product, the casual sector that does like shinies as well as waggle fun.

This is all just a shakedown and warmup for the PS4.  The PS4 is likely to be based on Cell as well, with the major upgrade coming to the RSX unit rather than the CPU cores.  They'll probably throw one or two more SPUs into the package, bump up the clock, and bump the memory up, and call it a day.  Whereas Nintendo is going to have to struggle to find a new architecture (the Wii/GCN hardware is at its limits, and doesn't even have facilities such as virtualization support).  And MS is completely ignoring the casual market, so Move has absolutely nothing to worry about from there.  MS backed itself into a corner catering just to hardcores because it's basically already tapped out the maximum potential of the console, and there's still probably 2 or 3 more years to go.

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If neither company had other divisions to prop up their gaming business they would be dead.  Nintendo does gaming and only gaming.  They don't sell operating systems or music players or TVs.

Erm no.  Nintendo is just in it for the quick cash.  Sony and MS are hedging their bets for the future.  Sony is making a direct attack at Nintendo's market with Move, and MS has already all but completely consumed the hardcore market in NA/AU/EU.  Nintendo will win this gen, there's no doubt about that, but their future prospects aren't exactly guaranteed at this point.

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We had first-party rechargeable solutions for the original Gameboy.  It was an external battery that you plugged into the power adapter slot.

No shit, I had one.  I'm talking about having the console built around it.

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But you say "anything over 8 hours" is unnecessary and seemingly forget how poor the PSP's battery life is.  One of the early (if not launch) racing games would kill the battery within two and a half hours if were using the wireless.

No I didn't forget about it.  There's no denying that the PSP had hardware design faults at launch, namely the poor UMD locking mechanism, the horrible DPAD switch placement, and the fragile screen.  But those got resolved and now the PSP has a very solid following.

Sony is the first manufacturer to take on Nintendo's complete monopoly of the handheld market, and not completely fold in 3 months.  That's astonishing given how much of a stranglehold Nintendo had with the Gameboy, and how much other companies have failed to introduce competitors.

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Depending on the CPU needs of the game, wireless use, and UMD use, it can kill its battery pretty quickly.  I know there are ways to run games off of the memory stick, but last I checked that's generally used by pirates and not an official installation method for UMD games.

Uhh the PSP Go completely ditched the UMD drive and uses flash memory exclusively for game storage.  Ironically it is failing hard because it lacks the UMD drive, to the point Sony has given up promoting it and is promoting the older PSP designs.  UMD is far from dead, even with the falling price of flash it is still far cheaper to press a UMD disc than to write to memstick.  It also has the advantages over download-only releases in allowing people to trade and resell their old games, something that cannot be discounted.

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Done "very well"?  I guess you could say that "it works" for the PSP but other then cost I don't see it having any advantages over the DS/3DS cards, and the 3DS cards available for developers at launch will have more capacity than a dual-layer UMD disc.

Capacity isn't the only thing that matters.  If that were the case consoles would have moved to flash drives and stuff years ago... yet they haven't.  Pressing a disc is still infinitely cheaper than building a cartridge.  And there is no reason we can't have multi UMD disc games, like we've had for consoles for decades.

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It's market is a bit strange, because the PSP hardware is far more popular than software sales would suggest.  Which is to say that piracy far outstrips software sales, and PSPs jailbroken for homebrew and emulation use seem to be more common than stock PSPs.

More like Sony marketed it as more than just a game playing unit, but as a mobile entertainment unit.  I probably use my PSP for more movie watching than I do game playing, even with the huge number of emulators at my disposal.  And Sony knows this, and it's why they're not too upset the market has moved towards that way, and why you hardly see PSP game promos nowadays.

Companies like Sony have the flexibility to be able to do that.  Nintendo is so ingrained in YOU ONLY USE MY CONSOLE FOR GAMES, that it's frankly boring nowadays.  Basically the only reason I'm interested in a 3DS is for the homebrew possibilities, as none of the DS titles ever struck me as a mustbuy.

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While waggle is generally overrated, the pointer on the Wi remote is the controller's best feature.  It's a far better FPS controller than dual-analog and second only to the keyboard and mouse IMO.

Err, the Wii's pointer detection is horribly inaccurate and painful to use.  Holding a controller like a remote is actually not that ergonomically good of a position, and it frankly gets tiring after a while.  Knock the dual-analog stick design all you want, but frankly it's the best compromise between comfort, usability, and playability.  Mouse/KB may be far better in a control sense, but it's also unwieldy and impractical to use from anything except a desk.

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We'll see how well that statement holds up after the 3DS comes out.  People were ragging on the DS's touchscreen and waggle when the Wii came out, and both are huge successes.

Honestly, it'll probably be a commercial success, but all it's going to do is dilute the market with even more shovelware.  Look at the huuuuuuuuuuuuge percentage of shovelware titles for the DS and Wii.  Is that something you really want to succeed?
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 17, 2010, 06:54:48 PM
Yet even with "cost controls" the N64 was still a revolutionary console.  The GCN was a little more conservative but it also came into the game later and had the benefit of watching how badly the PS2 was doing with wonky architectures.
And both the N64 and GCN did poorly compared to the PS1/PS2.  Many people were wondering if Nintendo was going to pull a Sega and leave the hardware business, but at least they had their successful portables.

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A friend of mine (and a huge finance/econ buff), explained to me pretty clearly what Sony is doing for the PS3.  It knew it was going to be a painful painful transition to a new platform, especially one so markedly different than the previous gen.  So it hedged its bets on this gen being a shakedown.
Which sounds like bullshit.  If you listened to anything the executives and spokespersons from Sony were saying, or the industry analysts, they were clearly betting on the PlayStation brand and PS2 owner loyalty in carrying them through.

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It bought into Cell, and promoted the fuck out of it.  It now owns a foundry just for producing them.
According to this (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST28617520080220?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews) Sony sold their production facilities for Cell and RSX to Toshiba.  So much for that!

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Whereas Nintendo is going to have to struggle to find a new architecture (the Wii/GCN hardware is at its limits, and doesn't even have facilities such as virtualization support).
I doubt Nintendo is going to "struggle" to find anything.  Since the N64 days they've had their GPUs custom designed by ATI (formerly ArtX), so it's not like they are lacking in expertise in GPU design.

The GCN and Wii's CPU were custom designs by IBM built on the POWER/PPC architecture, though Nintendo may choose a different direction. But guess what other consoles have used a POWER-based CPU?  The 360's CPU and the PS3 (via the PPE in Cell) both do, so Nintendo's competitors seem to be doing fine with that.  Those were made by IBM as well...

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Sony is making a direct attack at Nintendo's market with Move
And yet before Sony bought into Move they were saying that the PS3 and Wii weren't even in the same market and that motion controls were a gimmick.  Lawl.

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UMD is far from dead, even with the falling price of flash it is still far cheaper to press a UMD disc than to write to memstick.  It also has the advantages over download-only releases in allowing people to trade and resell their old games, something that cannot be discounted.

Capacity isn't the only thing that matters.  If that were the case consoles would have moved to flash drives and stuff years ago... yet they haven't.  Pressing a disc is still infinitely cheaper than building a cartridge.  And there is no reason we can't have multi UMD disc games, like we've had for consoles for decades.
So back to my question, does UMD have any advantages over the DS/3DS carts other than cost?  And you can even resell those!

And even though the discs may be cheaper to press, I haven't really noticed those saving being passed onto consumers.

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Nintendo is so ingrained in YOU ONLY USE MY CONSOLE FOR GAMES, that it's frankly boring nowadays
:derp:

My consoles get used for games, and only games.  HTPCs work wonderfully well for everything else, and I don't have to worry about things like my subtitles not working correctly since so many solutions for streaming to your consoles manage to fuck it up righteously.

One of the announcements for the 3DS was movies being made available for it.  It'll be interesting to see how that is actually delivered even though it's not something I'm interested in.

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Err, the Wii's pointer detection is horribly inaccurate and painful to use.
Wut?

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Holding a controller like a remote is actually not that ergonomically good of a position, and it frankly gets tiring after a while.
The Wii's remote is one hell of a lot more comfortable than the DualShock controllers, and my only complaint is that it and the nunchuck aren't bigger.

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Honestly, it'll probably be a commercial success, but all it's going to do is dilute the market with even more shovelware.  Look at the huuuuuuuuuuuuge percentage of shovelware titles for the DS and Wii.  Is that something you really want to succeed?
If people want to pay for garbage, they are more than welcome to.  You could've said the same thing about the PS2 when it reigned supreme.

So long as games that I like keep being made, I'm fine with ignoring the shovelware.  I'm pretty excited about the 3DS lineup, but maybe you consider the SMT series shovelware or something...
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 17, 2010, 07:39:29 PM
And both the N64 and GCN did poorly compared to the PS1/PS2.  Many people were wondering if Nintendo was going to pull a Sega and leave the hardware business, but at least they had their successful portables.

The N64 was a "flop" commercially because Nintendo made the same mistake Sega did, hoarding the devkits to themselves instead of fostering a good third party market.  Sony was honestly the first console dev to actively flirt with and try to woo in third party developers, and its successes during the PS1/PS2 days show that.

GCN did ok for itself, but was just overshadowed by the ridiculous success the PS2 was.  Better than the first Xbox that's for sure.

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Which sounds like bullshit.  If you listened to anything the executives and spokespersons from Sony were saying, or the industry analysts, they were clearly betting on the PlayStation brand and PS2 owner loyalty in carrying them through.

And it has.  The PS3 had a really shaky launch, probably one of the worst ever, and now it's nipping at the heels of the 360 and is likely to surpass it very soon.  Once the third parties got used to the architecture, it has really taken off.  Several real smart decisions, such as the Slim relaunch and , will help it even further.

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According to this (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST28617520080220?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews) Sony sold their production facilities for Cell and RSX to Toshiba.  So much for that!

Sony's massive investment in Cell is going to pay off for the PS4.  The sell off of their stuff to Toshiba was just financial footwork, as foundries are traditionally very expensive capital-wise and tend to not pay themselves off for a few years.  They basically bought off Toshiba and got them to buy into the Bluray standard and to using Cell processors in all their TVs and settop boxes in exchange for letting them own the foundries.

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I doubt Nintendo is going to "struggle" to find anything.  Since the N64 days they've had their GPUs custom designed by ATI (formerly ArtX), so it's not like they are lacking in expertise in GPU design.

The GCN and Wii's CPU were custom designs by IBM built on the POWER/PPC architecture, though Nintendo may choose a different direction. But guess what other consoles have used a POWER-based CPU?  The 360's CPU and the PS3 (via the PPE in Cell) both do, so Nintendo's competitors seem to be doing fine with that.  Those were made by IBM as well...

The problem isn't finding hardware, it's the platform they've put out.  The Wii has no hypervisor, no capabilities for virtualization.  They only hit the ground running for software devs because basically there was ZERO change between the GCN and Wii, so they really didn't have to do anything.

The problem is the devs are used to coding on a system where they basically have full control of the hardware, with no virtualization.  Virtualization forces you to stick to standard APIs and shy away from "hacks" and other undocumented features in your code.  This allows it to be a lot easier to make the games forwards compatible with the next system generation.  It also allows console devs to backport features that weren't available at launch. 

Look at Sony's big announcement that Move will be supported in much older titles such as RE5, Resistance, etc.  The Wii can't do that without pressing new CDs.  Imagine how much more successful the WiiMotionPlus would have been if they could have backported it to like Twilight Princess.  Same with things like Wii Speak.

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And yet before Sony bought into Move they were saying that the PS3 and Wii weren't even in the same market and that motion controls were a gimmick.  Lawl.

They are a gimmick.  It's why Sony is halfassing Move, unlike Microsoft who seems to be betting the farm on Kinect.  But it's a gimmick that sells units, and Sony is looking purely to brand penetration at this stage of the game, to set themselves up for the next generation.  They're looking to beat Nintendo out to making a "Wii HD".

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So back to my question, does UMD have any advantages over the DS/3DS carts other than cost?  And you can even resell those!

I don't think you understand the price discrepancy.  Most flash chips with the same capacity of UMDs are going to be in the 5-10 dollar range per chip, even at bulk pricing.  A UMD?  Probably pennies.  It's a huge margin change when you're talking about software sales in hundreds of thousands to millions.

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And even though the discs may be cheaper to press, I haven't really noticed those saving being passed onto consumers.

Of course not, but it makes the format far more attractive to publishers as they don't have as much manufacturing losses and can afford to have more aggressive pricing if necessary.

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My consoles get used for games, and only games.  HTPCs work wonderfully well for everything else, and I don't have to worry about things like my subtitles not working correctly since so many solutions for streaming to your consoles manage to fuck it up righteously.

Maybe I'm getting old but I don't like having twelve boxes that all only do one thing each.  I like having choice and functionality beyond "it's a nice paperweight!" when I'm not in the mood to play.  If I'm already paying 300-400 bucks for a console, is it really that much to ask for it to do more than just play games, especially in this day and age?

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One of the announcements for the 3DS was movies being made available for it.  It'll be interesting to see how that is actually delivered even though it's not something I'm interested in.

At 400x240?  Hah.  You thought UMD flopped bad this is going to be godawful.

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Wut?

I don't play 2 inches away from my sensor bar, and I just find the pointer interface painful to use and clunky as hell.

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The Wii's remote is one hell of a lot more comfortable than the DualShock controllers, and my only complaint is that it and the nunchuck aren't bigger.

The Dualshock controller is garbage, I don't know of anyone willing to go up to bat for one.  The 360 controller is far better, and would be perfect if it didn't have such a stupid DPAD on it.

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If people want to pay for garbage, they are more than welcome to.  You could've said the same thing about the PS2 when it reigned supreme.

The PS2 had a much higher proportion of good titles vs shovelware than the DS and Wii ever hope to.  I haven't even gotten close to playing all the great games PS2 had to offer, yet I can count on my hand how many good Wii or DS titles there are.

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So long as games that I like keep being made, I'm fine with ignoring the shovelware.  I'm pretty excited about the 3DS lineup, but maybe you consider the SMT series shovelware or something...

There's no indication if those are launch, near-launch or just big "maybe if we feel like doing it in a few years" titles.  I seriously doubt those are all launch titles.  That being said, Nintendo is notorious for having a fantastic launch lineup and then failing to have anything meaningful for a few years.  N64 and GCN had two of the best console launches ever, Super Mario 64 is likely the best launch title period.  But then look at the slide shortly after.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 17, 2010, 09:39:13 PM
The N64 was a "flop" commercially because Nintendo made the same mistake Sega did, hoarding the devkits to themselves instead of fostering a good third party market.
I don't recall the problem being devkit hoarding.  It was partly the increased cost (and reduced margins) from sticking with cartridges (especially for larger games), but more-so that Nintendo was still being as draconian with their approval processes as they were back in the NES/SNES days.

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GCN did ok for itself, but was just overshadowed by the ridiculous success the PS2 was.  Better than the first Xbox that's for sure.
Oh, you silly goose.  Read this (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e0912.pdf) and this (http://www.xbox.com/zh-SG/community/news/2006/20060510.htm).  According to Nintendo's sales document and Microsoft's press release the original Xbox outsold the GameCube.  That's kinda depressing when you think about it.

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And it has.  The PS3 had a really shaky launch, probably one of the worst ever, and now it's nipping at the heels of the 360 and is likely to surpass it very soon.
A more likely answer is that the 360 market is mostly saturated as more and more people that want one already own the console, especially since it was released earlier than the PS3 (plus the PS3 was horrendously overpriced at launch, putting off potential early adopters).  It'll be interesting to see whether the slim 360 manages to perk up sales for more than a few months.

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Once the third parties got used to the architecture, it has really taken off.
The exclusives have gotten better, but the multi-platform titles almost always have the PS3 release being the graphically inferior version (FF XIII is a notable exception)

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The problem isn't finding hardware, it's the platform they've put out.  The Wii has no hypervisor, no capabilities for virtualization.
Care to name any advantages to having visualization support for the software developers (as I mention below, I think you're referring to managed code)?  As it stands now it's being used for security (to prevent modding/pirating) on the 360/PS3, so as a platform for developers it doesn't really matter.

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They only hit the ground running for software devs because basically there was ZERO change between the GCN and Wii, so they really didn't have to do anything.
That really wasn't the case.  It wasn't until E3 2006 that developers even started paying attention to the Wii, and that showed in both the number and quality of titles that were being released by companies that weren't Nintendo.  The Wii was written off well before launch.

And most devs had their expertise in PS2 development, not GCN development.  Nintendo was the GameCube's lifeline in its later years, as they were basically the sole source of quality games for it.

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The problem is the devs are used to coding on a system where they basically have full control of the hardware, with no virtualization.  Virtualization forces you to stick to standard APIs and shy away from "hacks" and other undocumented features in your code.  This allows it to be a lot easier to make the games forwards compatible with the next system generation.  It also allows console devs to backport features that weren't available at launch.
It almost sounds like you're confusing virtualization with something else, like managed code.  What you're talking about is more like Microsoft's XNA, which is different than what development is for the PS3 is like.

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Look at Sony's big announcement that Move will be supported in much older titles such as RE5, Resistance, etc.  The Wii can't do that without pressing new CDs.  Imagine how much more successful the WiiMotionPlus would have been if they could have backported it to like Twilight Princess.  Same with things like Wii Speak.
Nintendo's policy with how they manage downloadable games and patches (which are non-existent for disc-based games) is dumb.  Their per-system and per-game friend codes are dumb.  Games with locked-down saves are dumb.  The fact that they took so long for SDHC card support is dumb.

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I don't think you understand the price discrepancy.  Most flash chips with the same capacity of UMDs are going to be in the 5-10 dollar range per chip, even at bulk pricing.  A UMD?  Probably pennies.  It's a huge margin change when you're talking about software sales in hundreds of thousands to millions.
Dual-layer UMDs are only 1.8GGB.  $5-10?  Try looking at retail prices for 2GB SD cards with Google and you'll see cards in that range and cheaper, let alone if you were find quotes for bulk pricing.  And remember that you only need writable storage for save files, so between bulk savings and the fact that most of a chip would only need to be written to once I could see it being considerably cheaper than what we see for SD cards.  Several times more expensive than a UMD disc, sure, but in all likelyhood a fraction of the cost that you think they would be.

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Maybe I'm getting old but I don't like having twelve boxes that all only do one thing each.  I like having choice and functionality beyond "it's a nice paperweight!" when I'm not in the mood to play.  If I'm already paying 300-400 bucks for a console, is it really that much to ask for it to do more than just play games, especially in this day and age?
You know, my PC is just one more device for that sort of thing.  I use it for games.  I use it for work.  I use it to watch videos.

If you own a Wii/PS2/PS3/360 you already have several devices that are going to be paperweights when you aren't using them.  It's just a matter of choosing which ones are going to be the paperweights.  Just add in a PC to the equation - you now have five devices, which ones are going to be the paperweights?

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At 400x240?  Hah.  You thought UMD flopped bad this is going to be godawful.
Assuming they do it with digital distribution?  Sure, I think it has a chance.  I can see Nintendo fucking this up, though.

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I don't play 2 inches away from my sensor bar, and I just find the pointer interface painful to use and clunky as hell.
I play about eight feet away and it works perfectly unless someone is standing in front of it :3

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The PS2 had a much higher proportion of good titles vs shovelware than the DS and Wii ever hope to.  I haven't even gotten close to playing all the great games PS2 had to offer, yet I can count on my hand how many good Wii or DS titles there are.
:/

List the good DS titles.  This I'm interested in.

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There's no indication if those are launch, near-launch or just big "maybe if we feel like doing it in a few years" titles.
AFAIK the games listed in the PDF on Nintendo's site are in-development.  The new Kid Icarus game will likely be a launch title, as it's being done by the studio founded by Iwata (Nintendo's president) and Sakurai (The Smash Bros guy) who hasn't been doing any other projects.  The new DKC game will probably be launch or near-launch since Retro has been working on another project since some time in 2008 and hasn't done anything else since Corruption/Trilogy.

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I seriously doubt those are all launch titles.  That being said, Nintendo is notorious for having a fantastic launch lineup and then failing to have anything meaningful for a few years.  N64 and GCN had two of the best console launches ever, Super Mario 64 is likely the best launch title period.  But then look at the slide shortly after.
That's because Nintendo were the ones having to drive everything.  3rd party support was largely shit (just like with the Wii).

I sure as hell hope quite a few of those titles aren't launch/near-launch, because my wallet is going to be hurting if these releases are well done.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 18, 2010, 11:05:21 AM
No I am not confusing virtualization with managed code.  Both go hand in hand; you use managed code to give developers standard APIs and the right way to do things, and you have a hypervisor to make sure they're sticking to them.  The nice thing you gain from having both standard APIs with a hypervisor is you are free to make changes to the underlying system software without affecting older titles adversely.  You can even backport improvements to much older titles in a lot of cases.

With how IOS is setup, there is absolutely no way Nintendo can backport new features, like the Wii MotionPlus, to older titles.  They could theoretically update the older IOSes with new device drivers, but the games themselves won't be able to take advantage of them.  You can't do disc patching without a hypervisor (well not reliably) and since each game assumes it has full control of the system, you can't implement a hypervisor without hardware support (which Broadway lacks).  Better system design is why I think this gen has lasted so long and will continue to. Having a smarter design capable of adapting to future developer needs, as well as fixing problems that may arise after a game has shipped.  It's also why piracy has basically been a nonissue for the 360/PS3.  Whereas you have a major dev like Namco declaring piracy has all but killed any revenue stream for third parties on the Wii/DS.

With Move/Kinect, Nintendo is running out of gimmicks. The Wii has an astoundingly dismal attachment rate (number of accessories/games sold with or after the console sale) despite having a ridiculous number of units sold.  Third party devs have all but given up on the Wii. With Epic Mickey the notable exception, only Nintendo is actually putting any AAA titles out for the Wii at this point, everything else is shovelware.  You'd think with the ten to one install ratio devs would be all over it.  Funny thing is, even with this massive install base difference third party AAA titles are more likely to sell MORE copies on the PS3/360 than on the Wii.  With how similar the 360/PS3 are compared to the Wii, it's just a developmental sinkhole in terms of costs that the market cannot put any serious resources into.

And honestly the only reason the 3DS even has a supposedly strong third party following is because the only major competitor for units sold in the handheld market is the iPhone/iPod Touch FFS.  A phone that costs leaps and bounds more than the DS.  And the sad thing is, even with how silly is to play games with no physical buttons, real solid studios such as Capcom and Square have been giving the iPhone serious attention.  Look at the number of ports (some which make absolute no sense like Secret of Mana) that Square has announced at E3.  Sony is in a real strong position with the PSP2 now, as the 3D "feature" is the only unique thing the 3DS brings.  If it can deliver on a handheld with real graphical prowess and reasonable battery life and price, it's likely to be a very strong contender against the 3DS.

Nintendo is in a truely bizarre position.  It is arguably only "winning" this gen in number of units sold.  In terms of developer support and attachment rates it is getting absolutely panned.  And honestly the Wii only got the massive console sales because of repackaging last gen tech and some ridiculous bad moves by Sony/MS.  Same with the DS vs the PSP, that short period of bad press over build quality really hampered what could have been a major major DS threat.  And despite these blunders, both are carving out a significant chunk of both the home and handheld console markets, and are poised to carve an even bigger chunk.

These bad moves only came about because neither of these companies have been in the console market for that long.  It's a whole different world going from marketing operating systems and TVs to consoles.  These guys are the young upstarts, and both of them managed to outright kill one old guard (Sega) and in a strong position to severely hamper the other.  You're right Nintendo doesn't have anything else to fall on, unlike Sony and MS.  And that's not exactly a good thing, as it means if push comes to shove Sony and MS can afford to sell hardware at a loss to gain marketshare whereas Nintendo has to rely on its hardware sales and exclusives to stay afloat.

To win only because you opponents were inept is not a strong position to be in.  And you damn well bet neither will make those same mistakes again.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 18, 2010, 01:06:08 PM
So to those people who said Steam on PS3 wasn't that big of news...

http://www.thekartel.com/zylvin/blog/2010/06/17/valve_plans_to_have_cross-platform_co-op_between_ps3_and_pcmac_for_portal_2
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=252387&skip=yes

Valve's Erik Johnson says their goal for steam works on PS3 includes PC/Mac cross-game play compatibility.  This is ridiculous and the possible start of an amazing relationship between PC gaymers and console fags.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Mounting Jaggis on June 18, 2010, 01:46:57 PM
Oh, boy! The Steam Forums are going to be loads of fun after this
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: lumber_of_the_beast on June 18, 2010, 01:51:21 PM
Crossplatform play for games from a company that makes FPSs.

Big deal.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 18, 2010, 02:27:35 PM
Crossplatform play for games from a company that makes FPSs.

Big deal.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Umm, you do realize that Steam (and the Source engine) is used by games that aren't FPSes.  This is huge, and the first actual attempt between a big name dev house/publisher and a console maker to try to bridge the cap between consoles and PCs.  MS is doing everything it can to make the divide deeper, and Nintendo has no online strategy to speak of, so this is a refreshing change of pace.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: Barrakketh on June 18, 2010, 04:23:14 PM
Oh, boy! The Steam Forums are going to be loads of fun after this
Eh, it means more scrubs to kill if TF2 for the PS3 gets an update.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: lumber_of_the_beast on June 18, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Umm, you do realize that Steam (and the Source engine) is used by games that aren't FPSes.  This is huge, and the first actual attempt between a big name dev house/publisher and a console maker to try to bridge the cap between consoles and PCs.  MS is doing everything it can to make the divide deeper, and Nintendo has no online strategy to speak of, so this is a refreshing change of pace.
That is an interesting idea that will become relevant as soon as you provide evidence that suggests that this might apply to games other than those produced by Valve.
Title: Re: E3 2010: Motion Controlled Edition
Post by: helvetica on June 18, 2010, 05:35:08 PM
Why not?  Valve specifically said STEAMWORKS was going to be ported to PS3, and STEAMWORKS is what third party devs using Steam use.

If you're already using Steamworks for your PC port it's likely to be very trivial to use it on your PS3 port as well.  Valve wouldn't have made a big deal out of stressing Steamworks over "PORTAL 2 IS A FIRST CLASS PORT NOW", if that weren't the case.  And this is Valve.  They're trying to position themselves as the master of digital distribution.

If it was just about Portal 2, they wouldn't have stressed the Steamworks aspect of it.