Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Menorah Jams, Pham on April 14, 2010, 12:46:32 PM

Title: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Menorah Jams, Pham on April 14, 2010, 12:46:32 PM
No, seriously! 

http://www.japanator.com/touhou-is-way-too-popular-on-the-doujinshi-scene-14537.phtml

Some fun facts from these statistics:

-There are more Touhou h-doujins than the next three titles COMBINED.  (And that's Vocaloid, Idolm@ster, and Nanoha put together - not even the trifecta of REALLY underage girls, virtual idoru, and virtual idoru girlfriends!)
-The only series with less h-doujins is Maria-sama ga Miteru (What is it about yuri that lowers the porn percentage?)

Any other statistical geniuses wanna play around with those figures?  I know I wanna play around with their figures, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 14, 2010, 12:58:43 PM
I'm not all that surprised given the IMMENSE popularity of Touhou, but I didn't know said popularity was that large. I suppose it comes from the small amount of 'canon' material that (pardon my usuage of words) "restricts" artists from other ideas and plotlines they wanted to use. I'll admit, as an artist and writer, it IS fun to fuck around with the Touhou scene, more so when you include h-matieral and fetishes. Hell, half of the Touhous themselves are a good source of fetish fuel in their own right.

I'm not a statistical genius, so I'm pretty much limited to opinions, sarcasm and shoddy referances no one will ever get.

(What is it about yuri that lowers the porn percentage?)
It's really ironic how you include that, and half of the Touhou doujins ARE in fact yuri.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Merp on April 14, 2010, 01:03:05 PM
You mean lovely futas  :V

<Tengukami> No.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 14, 2010, 01:03:30 PM
Tasukete, Eirin!
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 14, 2010, 01:05:33 PM
You mean lovely futas  :V
Yeah, whatever. They're still all the same to me.

Old and overdone.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Grand Octopus on April 14, 2010, 01:31:23 PM
Do these retailers maintain any sort of standards when accepting doujins for retail? I'm just curious about how many of those 5030 Touhou doujins are essentially unmarketable garbage.

Also, I just realised I either dislike or know nothing about every other series mentioned in that article. Except for Marimite I guess.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on April 14, 2010, 04:35:24 PM
You'd think with all those doujins, we'd get some freakin' awesome battle scenes, but noooooooo....

Bah, someone wake me up when Himura Kiseki starts doing Touhou doujins with battle scenes in the style of SwordDancers (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/564572) or N (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/284193/)a (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/522120)n (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/209004)o (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/151788)h (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/200519/)a (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/296563/) BetrayerS (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/609273).
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Ghaleon on April 14, 2010, 05:44:14 PM
Given the fact I don't watch anime or read manga, I approve of these statistics.

But hold on, Yuri isn't considered erotic material? I thought Yuri was basically girl on girl porn.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: E-Nazrin on April 14, 2010, 05:54:30 PM
Given the fact I don't watch anime or read manga, I approve of these statistics.

But hold on, Yuri isn't considered erotic material? I thought Yuri was basically girl on girl porn.

I think it's being used as what would be technically more accurate as 'shoujo-ai' - works including romantic and/or sexual relationships between two women. It's a less clumsy term in English, and the distinction blurs a little sometimes.

Regardless: Wow. That's pretty much all I can say to that.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: orinrin on April 14, 2010, 06:11:10 PM
I can't tell if this is good or bad.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 14, 2010, 06:13:34 PM
I can't tell if this is good or bad.

If it's bad, then I don't wanna be good!

_, ,_ ∩
( ゚∀゚)彡 えーりん!えーりん!
  ⊂彡
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: jigglyppuff8 on April 14, 2010, 07:27:14 PM
Related somewhat. (http://vgmdb.net/artist/1) Arrange works from Key don't even compare.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 14, 2010, 08:20:06 PM
(What is it about yuri that lowers the porn percentage?)
Easy: the amount of porn produced by the fans is inversely proportional to the amount of "naughtiness" present in canon (and then multiplied by the popularity to begin with, of course). If you play your cards and creativity right, a fully-clothed romance with barely any kissing (um, I admit that I'm not actually familiar with Marimite) can be more "enticing" than full-on hardcore pornography. In short, the fans don't need to produce their own stuff, because it's already there.

(Contrast Touhou, in which everything is vague, and there's no fanservice or sexualization whatsoever, and the characters' underwear consists of poofy bloomers, which are just about as sexy as frilly cargo shorts.)
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 14, 2010, 09:06:10 PM
poofy bloomers, which are just about as sexy as frilly cargo shorts.

Speak for yourself!

*fires up Kiki's Delivery Service again*
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Suikama on April 14, 2010, 09:06:36 PM
Two words

Dark Tewi
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Naut on April 14, 2010, 09:09:55 PM
I'd say the reason Marimite has little h material is because it's is just a higher class show for higher class citizens *sips tea with pinky raised*

Speak for yourself!

*fires up Kiki's Delivery Service again*

This man knows where it's at!
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: orinrin on April 14, 2010, 09:24:39 PM
I'd say the reason Marimite has little h material is because it's is just a higher class show for higher class citizens *sips tea with pinky raised*
You forgot your monocle.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Chaore on April 14, 2010, 09:43:21 PM
I...holy freaking crap.

That is somewhere near half of -everything-. This is pretty damn astonishing.

Shoddy view of the entire industry though, given you know, its one damn source. Really I'd be entirely unsurprised if it's relative to that one company, and someone did the work just to achieve this response.

Still damn impressive though.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 14, 2010, 10:28:15 PM
Two words

Dark Tewi
Mmm, I'd pay for a an h-doujin with her in it.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: dustyjo on April 14, 2010, 10:32:04 PM
All these doujins yet I still can't find any Ranlove ones.

:(
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 14, 2010, 10:33:33 PM
Guess you need to write/draw one.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Suikama on April 14, 2010, 11:07:33 PM
I wonder what's the ratio of Touhou doujin music compared to others :smug:
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: orinrin on April 15, 2010, 12:40:23 AM
I wonder what's the ratio of Touhou doujin music compared to others :smug:
:ohdear:


The gap between Touhou and non-Touhou music would probably be larger than all of Yukari's gaps put together.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Furienify on April 15, 2010, 12:58:33 AM
I can't say I read much Touhou doujin. I usually run into a wall of h-doujins while searching, or find stuff filled with painfully shoehorned fan service. Not much of actual literary merit.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: orinrin on April 15, 2010, 12:59:53 AM
There are quite a few quality doujins out there AFAIK.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Furienify on April 15, 2010, 01:02:18 AM
I did read some weird doujin about all the girls getting into some sort of gunfight with one another. Mokou's team vs. Kaguya's. Unexpectedly, I found it extremely amusing.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: orinrin on April 15, 2010, 01:03:40 AM
I did read some weird doujin about all the girls getting into some sort of gunfight with one another. Mokou's team vs. Kaguya's. Unexpectedly, I found it extremely amusing.
That's the one with the Cirno Shotgun right?
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: N-Forza on April 15, 2010, 02:11:31 AM
quality doujin maker posting itt

Toranoana is a pretty big doujinshi dealer, so I'd say this is a fairly accurate representation of the current scene. Another big doujinshi store, Melonbooks, also has a ton of Touhou stuff on sale.

However, the one deal that might be skewing the numbers is that I'm not sure what Toranoana's criteria for acceptance is. Maybe Touhou doujinshi authors are just more willing to put up their stuff in stores.

Also, the original thread wasn't titled "waste of resources" (although I could consider Nanoha doujinshi more of a waste of resources), the intending meaning was closer to "a bad influence on how resources are spent", but it's not as catchy, admittedly.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Gpop on April 15, 2010, 02:47:04 AM
I did read some weird doujin about all the girls getting into some sort of gunfight with one another. Mokou's team vs. Kaguya's. Unexpectedly, I found it extremely amusing.

That one was epic. Goddamn yes.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: ♛ Apher-Forte on April 15, 2010, 03:22:20 AM
My idea: Touhou is a Supernova.

Its width of products will expand and expand and soon enough beyond it be damned by its own popularity. Just like a Supernova, it won't be soon before long it will be silenced to nothing, fed upon by its own popularity until nothing is left and boom, oh hey, no one draws Touhou anymore~

It is not that I don't like Touhou doujins, heck, I have more of them than I do of miscellaneous others, even the strange fetish ones that probably no one likes to read other than the niche few (Breast enlargement anyone? NO? I figured so). The doujin market is described as best like any other bubble market, it grows susbstantially because of the supply and demand curve marking a heightened sales level and status, giving it its 'premiere' level of widespread influence, making anyone in the market of anime and manga move over and check it out. In the event they find something they like and they see that they are not the only ones, the buy becomes buy more.

The same with the building boom in Dubai that crashed recently not so long ago. Investments (think of this as the doujin producers) were into the building of so many new infrastructures, facilities, business buildings and expensive villas that nobody thought twice of how good it will go bad at the end (the higher they go, harder they fall). Doujin without general interest spawns nothing, but because of the fanbase it expanded exponentially.

In due time, when markets go bad for Dubai, investors are indebted to banks, and now relies on Abu Dhabi to bail them out. Think of when the doujin market will suffer the bubble burst, and when it does, the interest will just die, and those that came late to the doujin drawan market and cannot divert their artistic license to anywhere else, it be sad to see them go, but yes, they will be dead too. Only loyal fans may live on a franchise, but those that contribute to the bubble boom will die along with the bubble burst.

/economic analysis
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Solais on April 15, 2010, 09:56:17 AM
*wall of text*

tl;dr We will be free from the fanon stupidity soon enough!
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: beaver1231 on April 15, 2010, 10:21:05 AM
Is there any report that refutes this fact?

I mean after all, no matter what people believe, there will always be one person who says otherwise.

What law was this again?

Sturgeon's law?
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 15, 2010, 12:28:26 PM
Stuff that makes sense
That's a pretty good point, given how popular Touhou is.

This only makes me wonder how long we got before the inevitable happens.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 15, 2010, 07:48:10 PM
Define "the inevitable."
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Slaves on April 15, 2010, 07:55:14 PM
Define "the inevitable."

the fall of an empire.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 15, 2010, 08:05:00 PM
Define "the inevitable."
in?ev?i?ta?ble ( n- v -t -b l). adj. 1. Impossible to avoid or prevent.

Seriously though, you can't possibly think this will go on forever. Eventually this will all burn out at some point, the time at which this actually happens is unknown, but trust me...it WILL happen. As they say; nothing lasts forever.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 15, 2010, 08:10:39 PM
Right ... sorry, I probably need a nap. |3
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: OkashiiKisei on April 15, 2010, 08:11:01 PM
in?ev?i?ta?ble ( n- v -t -b l). adj. 1. Impossible to avoid or prevent.

Seriously though, you can't possibly think this will go on forever. Eventually this will all burn out at some point, the time at which this actually happens is unknown, but trust me...it WILL happen. As they say; nothing lasts forever.

*puts 'make Touhou immortal' on To-Do list*
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 15, 2010, 08:45:07 PM
*puts 'make Touhou immortal' on To-Do list*
BAKA!

*thrusts cane into Okashii's face*

That is a foolish errand!

Yep...time to put the Soul Eater down for the day...
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: ♛ Apher-Forte on April 16, 2010, 10:05:07 AM
Define "the inevitable."

because the Touhou fandom spawns more fandoms, in the end when the attention dies out of disinterest, the whole thing also dies, including ZUN games. ZUN music will no longer be mixed, you get no input, Reitaisai will be no more.

It is not so much as the fandom dying really, that comes back when a new generation of fans pick it up. As it is however, I don't see that happening, face it, why play a 640x480 shooting game when even 1600x1200 res games are available? 60fps? Damn man, are we in 1989? Shooting games need to progress, and the game needs sustained attention from fans and loyal players alike, the ones that create fandumb as so properly labelled, are also part of that support. (Hey even Dodonpachi improved over the years, and we have something like Deathsmiles that is very innotative.)

Once the lifeline is snuffed out from what I believe will be a majority of interested parties, there is a chance that no one will even consider contributing to the Touhou franchise. I won't write off fandumb support as being non-important just yet. Face it, some of you probably youtube/nico'd your way here.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: beaver1231 on April 16, 2010, 11:17:37 AM
Define "the inevitable."

Touhou dies, everyone plays Battle Garegga for score. :V
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: OkashiiKisei on April 16, 2010, 01:28:47 PM
The idea of Touhou vanishing makes me extremely depressive :( I just can't comprehend what it is like without Touhou.


Although, the Mario franchise has lived for 20 years, and it is still going greatly. Mario is still Mr. Video Game. He helped making games mainstream. And it looks like he won't die anytime soon. Isn't it possible that Touhou may gain Mario's immortality? Final Fantasy is also going on for almost as long, and that series truly doesn't look like it will ever end. Some series truly are immortal as long as their company keeps existing. I don't believe we should condemn Touhou's fate like this. Touhou has a far more amazing fandom than any on Earth. This series will go on far beyond ZUN's retirement/passing away. Another team will pick it up in honor of ZUN and continue it for him. I am sure of it.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: ♛ Apher-Forte on April 16, 2010, 04:10:07 PM
Mario updated their franchise semi regularly. It is also backed by popular demand over the ages and it was what we grew up with. (much like Zelda) and if Final Fantasy can die, I doubt Touhou can survive the onslaught of oversupply.

what has it to offer? other than pretty crayon girls and colorful bullets over 640x480 screens of 8bit- or instrumental music?
It needs refinement, and upgrades.
WE HAVE TO MAKE IT HARDER BETTER FASTER STRONGER
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 16, 2010, 04:47:49 PM
The idea of Touhou vanishing makes me extremely depressive :( I just can't comprehend what it is like without Touhou.


Although, the Mario franchise has lived for 20 years, and it is still going greatly. Mario is still Mr. Video Game. He helped making games mainstream. And it looks like he won't die anytime soon. Isn't it possible that Touhou may gain Mario's immortality? Final Fantasy is also going on for almost as long, and that series truly doesn't look like it will ever end. Some series truly are immortal as long as their company keeps existing. I don't believe we should condemn Touhou's fate like this. Touhou has a far more amazing fandom than any on Earth. This series will go on far beyond ZUN's retirement/passing away. Another team will pick it up in honor of ZUN and continue it for him. I am sure of it.
Okashii, you're my buddy and all, but you're placing WAY too much credit into Touhou's popularity, dude.

Yes, it's popular, yes it has ALOT of doujins out going for it. But you have to remember, Touhous NOT like any other video game we've played, like say Mario or Sonic, that have existed for well on a decade and still come out with games that thounsands (hell maybe millions) of people buy. As AF already said, Touhou rarely has much change to it, while the other games have at least one large factor about them that is constantly updated or improved upon. Honestly, we have essentially 13 games out for Touhou and not one of them is different from the other when you stop and think about it.

-Miko senses something is up
-Miko investigaes, beats up a couple girls on her way to the truth
-Mastermind appears, commence final battle
-End

Think about it. Does that sound like any commercial game to you? Surely, a game like Mario or Sonic wouldn't have such a simple plotline? Sure it was like that before, but now look...we have plotlines that are FAR more advanced than Touhous could ever be. At this point, we're basically sitting in front of a screen wondering on what kinda loli we will have to shoot pretty bullets at. I mean come ON...we all know what's going to happen in the end once we beat the final boss...

They all forgive each other and be friends, pretty rainbows and happy puppies (okay that last one was horribly misplaced). No one ever dies due to plot, there's no secret twist to any of said plots, no dramatic reveals, or anything like that. It's all the same. Hell there isn't even any FUCKING replay value save for 1cc something or unlocking extra. Besides this, we pretty much got a decent time waster on our hands, something only good for 6 stages and that's it.

I am a living example of the fan with a dying interest in Touhou; I've been absolutely ravenous for a change in Touhou for a while now. However, I already know that said changes have a  very low chance of occuring ,due to how painfully static the games really are and how ZUN essentially keeps pumping out the same thing like he's scared of changing something he's supposed to have fun with making.

It's like I said before many, many times; There needs to be a change in Touhou, if it ever wants to survive. If another team DOES pick it up, I truly hope they change it for the better, because what we have now is growing stagnant and rotten before our very eyes.

EDIT: Of course, this isn't saying you HAVE to accept the inevitable fate of Touhou. Bubsy still has fans out there, and that series is pretty much confirmed to be dead. If Bubsy can still have fans after a franchise death, then so can Touhou. Think of it like a post-apocolyptic scenerio; there's a global disaster that's left the world and populace desolate and barren save for a few. Those few who have survived the cataclysm will live on a rebuild. It may not be the same, but at least they're sustaining themselves and keeping each other alive.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Silent Harmony on April 16, 2010, 05:35:54 PM
what has it to offer? other than pretty crayon girls and colorful bullets over 640x480 screens of 8bit- or instrumental music?
It needs refinement, and upgrades.
WE HAVE TO MAKE IT HARDER BETTER FASTER STRONGER
It has been TOO LONG, I admit, since any big changes have been made (the last "big" one was the new engine). However, you have to admit that every franchise you guys are comparing to Touhou isn't fair in the sense that it's a 1-man show vs. an entire studio. Zun's only HUMAN AFTER ALL,  it's not like he can snap his fingers and *poof* have 1080hp graphics. It would require a REVOLUTION in the franchise; or at the least taking a break ONE MORE TIME.

(Sorry, had to get that out of my system).

Honestly, it would be nice for Zun to take a break for a few years and come back with a whole new system. But how do you go about convincing him that? Really, stagnant as Touhou is, it's hard to say how it'll die. It's easy to say that it's festering, but it'd be nice to have numbers that support it. Right now it all depends on sales of the actual games and the feedback he gets from fans. Unless numbers are down and people are clamoring for him to take another years-long break and upgrade his engine again, or rethink how he's building his world, he may not have any incentive to do so. In fact the opposite may be true.

Also, one could argue Zelda's stagnant too, at least from what I've seen, and yet it's arguably Nintendo's biggest franchise. Aside from slightly different worlds and 1-2 unique mechanics (wind, wolf), the series hasn't grown much since OoT, which is one of the reasons I still haven't played much since Majora's Mask. Wind Waker could've breathed new life, but casual fans hated the change; they ripped apart young Link and the cartoonish style, and thus Nintendo went back to realism for Twilight Princess, which became one of the biggest games of the series (ok, so part of that was that they delayed it to be released with the Wii, but still the hype leading to it compared to WW was night and day).



Quote
ZUN essentially keeps pumping out the same thing like he's scared of changing something he's supposed to have fun with making.

Maybe I missed an interview, but...

What if he likes building his games this way. The biggest eras of change in Touhou were 1-3 (3 different game types) and 5-6 (new platform). Since then he's released 1 duel game (PoFV) and 2 camera games (STB, DS) and 1 new engine, other than that everything has been the same. Maybe he likes making shooters staring cute girls with little/no plot. After all, the biggest things for him, IIRC, were the danmaku and the music.




(Honestly this post was mainly for the Daft Punk jokes, but I wanted to bring up an opposing view as well. At worst I get ripped to shreds with evidence and I learn something new about ZUN and the franchise I didn't before).
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: OkashiiKisei on April 16, 2010, 05:56:29 PM
The sad, painful truth.

The truth hurts :(

It has been TOO LONG, I admit, since any big changes have been made (the last "big" one was the new engine). However, you have to admit that every franchise you guys are comparing to Touhou isn't fair in the sense that it's a 1-man show vs. an entire studio. Zun's only HUMAN AFTER ALL,  it's not like he can snap his fingers and *poof* have 1080hp graphics. It would require a REVOLUTION in the franchise; or at the least taking a break ONE MORE TIME.

Also, one could argue Zelda's stagnant too, at least from what I've seen, and yet it's arguably Nintendo's biggest franchise. Aside from slightly different worlds and 1-2 unique mechanics (wind, wolf), the series hasn't grown much since OoT, which is one of the reasons I still haven't played much since Majora's Mask. Wind Waker could've breathed new life, but casual fans hated the change; they ripped apart young Link and the cartoonish style, and thus Nintendo went back to realism for Twilight Princess, which became one of the biggest games of the series (ok, so part of that was that they delayed it to be released with the Wii, but still the hype leading to it compared to WW was night and day).



Maybe I missed an interview, but...

What if he likes building his games this way. The biggest eras of change in Touhou were 1-3 (3 different game types) and 5-6 (new platform). Since then he's released 1 duel game (PoFV) and 2 camera games (STB, DS) and 1 new engine, other than that everything has been the same. Maybe he likes making shooters staring cute girls with little/no plot. After all, the biggest things for him, IIRC, were the danmaku and the music.

1st point: I just meant that the fanbase is more active than any other fanbase, not that ZUN is as influential and powerful as Nintendo and Sega. I meant the sheer fan-power might keep the series immortal. After all, we're talking about the fandom that has made a full blown doujin anime for the game. And don't let me get started on the high quality doujin games and musix videos. I don't see Mario and Sonic fans doing that on such a grand scale.

2nd point: Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks say hi.

3rd point: Well ZUN has stated himself that he made the games solely for his very own amusement. He explicitly stated in an interview that he wouldn't care if the fandom died. He'd still have his own games to enjoy. He mainly made Touhou since not much else appealed to him, so he decided to make his own games to fulfill his needs. Essentially, ALL of the Touhou games are made just because ZUN felt like it, and all have mechanics that appeal to his own tastes. Based on that statement I don't think he's going to make many dramatic changes gameplay wise. Maybe he make more stages in one game and a more dramatic plot, perhaps throw in a male character or two (which seems plausible since ever that Myouren thing), but he's going to have to take a break if he seriously wants to make a big change for the next one.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Ghaleon on April 16, 2010, 06:10:32 PM
None of these are facts, not sure why you guys are making them out to be that way.
It seems like nobody knows that Touhou  is massively popular because of reasons OTHER than it being a STG. I mean just look at the Touhou popularity contest, I forget what it was, but while being able to vote on 3 different aspects of Touhou that you like, the games were near the bottom..

Touhou isn't about a series of STGs that refuse to change, that's merely what started it. Now I'm not saying Touhou interest might take a huge hit sometime in the future (which I don't t hink is soon btw). But sometimes things CAN live for a long ass time without changing. Look at Elvis for example, people STILL make records of the guy, and he's been dead for years! It's not like there are any new songs from him either. It's not 1 nut job out of every 10000 either. Games like Mario and Sonic are still popular  because their developers keep making games for them. Touhou fans are still making games for Touhou, and I'm pretty sure most of those fans are fueled by fanon just as much as canon, or else the games wouldn't have so much fanon-based content themselves.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Solais on April 16, 2010, 06:12:21 PM
Except maybe PoFV, what he made to the fandom as a fanservice game, as he stated in another interview.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: 8lue Wizard on April 16, 2010, 06:16:12 PM
-Miko senses something is up
-Miko investigaes, beats up a couple girls on her way to the truth
-Mastermind appears, commence final battle
-End

You forgot the tea parties.

Oh, and I figure Touhou'll die out around 2-3 years after ZUN dies of liver failure. Which is to say, not in this century.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: BeyPok?Dig on April 16, 2010, 07:17:34 PM
- There are 52 more adult only Touhou doujins than there are ALL #2 (= Vocaloid) doujins
- There are 98 more Touhou doujins than there are from ALL TITLES FROM #2 TO  #14 COMBINED OMG O_O
THIRTEEN MOST POPULAR titles COMBINED can't beat Touhou. WIN.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 16, 2010, 07:24:00 PM
Erebus, with all due respect, you seem lately to be making it your personal mission to be sure everyone is aware of your general dissatisfaction with the games. If you're wondering if anyone's caught on, I can assure you, we have.

I believe the popularity of the games will probably fade. I'd say it's a near certainty. It is a certainty that the series will one day stop. I'm not really sure what this changes though. One day the person you love the most will die. And so you enjoy the time you have with them now.

I'm not saying to be quiet about what you don't like about the games, of course. Just that you lately seem to be venting and repeating yourself when it comes to this subject is all.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 17, 2010, 03:19:48 AM
Yeah, you're like Ruro was with Nue a while back. And, like with her, we do not take issue with the fact that you don't like some parts of it (or at least I don't -- I mean, I have my fare share of bones to pick), just with the fact that you seem to bring it up in every thread you post in at TARC.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on April 17, 2010, 11:14:09 AM
Well I haven't been reading the walls of text here, but wow, Touhou is popular.

I just wish I knew a good source for buying touhou doujin in england. Especialy of the musical kind.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: ♛ Apher-Forte on April 17, 2010, 11:35:30 AM
Okashii let me put it this way:

until fans can give a full anime series, that is not done by one person (Tokine, you are one awesome motherfucker) oh hey, Touhou will still suffer from oversupply.

What I am saying is not influence, it is common progress. Product Life Cycle dictates that now seems to be at least approaching the Touhou maturity part, and from here on it is either a steady decline to death, or ZUN gives up. However, as are all economic situations, the solution to quick and quiet death is to make enough noise, or change your product to match up with competitors.


http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~renglish/370/notes/chapt11/life_cycle_01.gif

for full reference

You think players compare a company with a guy's game? That is what fandom does, players of a game do not care at the end of the day if it was designed by one man or one army, it is a game, if it has nothing to offer, it will have to stay stagnant or dead in the water.

Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: N-Forza on April 17, 2010, 01:35:31 PM
I wouldn't say that Touhou's popularity has stagnated or decreased until there's a moderate decline in the number of booths at Comiket/Reitaisai and similar events. Seeing as how Reitaisai this year was bigger than last year and they STILL had to turn down a bunch of applications, I think there's still life in it for a little while longer.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 17, 2010, 05:05:56 PM
I'd have to agree. All things must end some time, we all know, but it doesn't look like the sun is setting on Gensokyo for the last time just yet.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on April 17, 2010, 05:09:06 PM
And thank (insert favirote gensokyo shrine here)'s god for that because I cant get enough of the music.

Litterally, I can't because I cant find where to get some of it  :V
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: OkashiiKisei on April 17, 2010, 05:44:40 PM

Okashii let me put it this way:

until fans can give a full anime series, that is not done by one person (Tokine, you are one awesome motherfucker) oh hey, Touhou will still suffer from oversupply.

What I am saying is not influence, it is common progress. Product Life Cycle dictates that now seems to be at least approaching the Touhou maturity part, and from here on it is either a steady decline to death, or ZUN gives up. However, as are all economic situations, the solution to quick and quiet death is to make enough noise, or change your product to match up with competitors.


http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~renglish/370/notes/chapt11/life_cycle_01.gif

for full reference

You think players compare a company with a guy's game? That is what fandom does, players of a game do not care at the end of the day if it was designed by one man or one army, it is a game, if it has nothing to offer, it will have to stay stagnant or dead in the water.



I truly, with all my heart, cannot imagine the disappearance of Touhou. I am incapable of comprehending it. Like all the popular game series I've played I just cannot imagine that one day it will end. The fanbase is still so bustling, and puts so much effort in their work. I cannot imagine them ever giving it up. And what I defiantly cannot comprehend is that the girls might one day be forgotten. They are so memorable. I don't see why anyone could ever forget them.

And don't say stuff like it is about to end! Who knows how long it will still live? It might still survive for years to come! And like multiple people on this thread said, the business is still bustling! I cannot see the end of it.

And why is oversupply a bad thing? And Touhou isn't about profit, it is about fun. That is ZUN's motivation. He started it for fun, and is still doing it for fun, like he said in his interview.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 17, 2010, 05:49:29 PM
Read NForza's post and have a warrm glass of milk. AF's pushing your buttons.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: ♛ Apher-Forte on April 17, 2010, 06:15:55 PM
yeah, relax dude.

I am only saying that it will end, because like all good things, too much of it is never good. However, I said nothing about the time frame, this can happen in the next quarter century, or the next century, that is another 50 Touhou games by average!


as it is, every comiket looks to be filled with nothing but Touhou, do I think of it as  a bad thing? No, not really, trends shift from time to time, and like it or not Touhou is a trend, whether or not it will continue looks to how it will juggle with oversupply and well, if there is any demand it will stay. As it is, see for yourself in history, has a trend ever NOT ended? Every trend matures and subsequently gets replaced by something else. The important factor is whether this trend can live LONGER than other trends, and what it can do to lengthen itself over a variety of platforms. (hey Touhou on PS3? Xbox? OMG)

However, it doesn't mean if the franchise is no longer a popular trend it will die. There are still supporters, but how can supporters support a product that is quite simply not there enough? (the game itself) yes, you can support fanwork, but does the money go to ZUN? No. But this is of no importance, what I am saying is what can Touhou do to make it more enjoyable? What can make people come back beyond the fanwork (music etc) to the game itself? What can make the experience richer? Questions to ponder if you don't want a franchise to die.


People need to buy the games, if you were an outsider who never played a danmaku shooting game you would approach the game with much caution. Fun doesn't make money, money buys beer, without beer there is no Touhou, so.... yeah, how many times can ZUN recycle the plot of every game which was described by points in Erebus's earlier post remains to be seen.

I think of it as a wonderful fanbase, but well,

Quote
And don't say stuff like it is about to end! Who knows how long it will still live? It might still survive for years to come! And like multiple people on this thread said, the business is still bustling! I cannot see the end of it.

it won't tomorrow, maybe not ten years to come, but it will need more than this to keep on going. Like I said, and which you might not have read all too clearly, Touhou needs more than a few girls per game, who shoots colorful bullet patterns to live on.

(Look at Deathsmiles, now that is a really provocative shooting game, both gaming factor and art wise)

I'd say it is a healthy growth for now, and I won't curse it to die, or just yet. What I see however, is that Touhou quite simply, by all means, NEED to improve. Someone said above a few years of no new games can bring about a new if not better piece of game from ZUN, given the one man army had more than enough time to contemplate his new work into a masterpiece. Rome is not built in a day, and so a game that took a few years to develop might just be the saving grace to the franchise for those intend on seeking the gaming experience that is so much needed in a Touhou game!

Who knows? It is still not impossible for the game itself to NOT be supported by fandom and still become an awesome piece of gaming gem! Tetris is still popular without much revision, can Touhou walk the same path? We can only see.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 17, 2010, 08:00:01 PM
Erebus, with all due respect, you seem lately to be making it your personal mission to be sure everyone is aware of your general dissatisfaction with the games. If you're wondering if anyone's caught on, I can assure you, we have.

I believe the popularity of the games will probably fade. I'd say it's a near certainty. It is a certainty that the series will one day stop. I'm not really sure what this changes though. One day the person you love the most will die. And so you enjoy the time you have with them now.

I'm not saying to be quiet about what you don't like about the games, of course. Just that you lately seem to be venting and repeating yourself when it comes to this subject is all.
Yeah, you're like Ruro was with Nue a while back. And, like with her, we do not take issue with the fact that you don't like some parts of it (or at least I don't -- I mean, I have my fare share of bones to pick), just with the fact that you seem to bring it up in every thread you post in at TARC.
Yeah I am pretty much venting my frustrations with the seires (said frustration is something that's accumalated over the course of me playing the games and seeing them for what they really are). I may not be the fan I used to be, but I just can't see how people can deal with the same thing over and over and over again. It annoys me to no bounds to see a series with such potential be wasted with such a redundant factor crammed into it.

How can I stay interested in Touhou if it's not giving me something interesting to look at? I want to fully enjoy it as everyone of you do, but it's these factors that keep me from doing so.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 17, 2010, 08:20:16 PM
Yes, but broadly speaking, this is your problem. Lord knows I sympathize with the "gods, will you just do SOMETHING different already! (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=deadlymariari)" point of view, but I don't go to Wings of Yuri or some theoretical "The 'Alice is tsundere for Marisa appreciation thread" and constantly tell them I think it sucks.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 17, 2010, 08:51:39 PM
Yeah I am pretty much venting my frustrations with the seires (said frustration is something that's accumalated over the course of me playing the games and seeing them for what they really are). I may not be the fan I used to be, but I just can't see how people can deal with the same thing over and over and over again. It annoys me to no bounds to see a series with such potential be wasted with such a redundant factor crammed into it.

How can I stay interested in Touhou if it's not giving me something interesting to look at? I want to fully enjoy it as everyone of you do, but it's these factors that keep me from doing so.

I'm not trying to change your mind about anything, of course. You're entitled to your opinion. I was just saying that we get it already: Erebus is bored silly with Touhou.

But if you want, I'd say that it's also a matter of what you choose to focus on. Where you see 6 stages of vertical scrolling followed by a tea party, I see new characters, new music, new point systems, new bullets, new strategies and so on. Again, not telling you to change your mind, but since you asked, there it is.

For example, I think Double Spoiler was a real step forward, personally. Rather than it just being Shoot the Bullet Part Deux, there's a neat little puzzle game aspect added to it. It's not a game you need to play in a straight line, either - unlock a few stages of a level here, move on, come back later and try them again. The contrasting strengths and weaknesses between the unlocked player and the original player are pretty interesting, too.

ZUN is still a young man, and the fandom for his games is anything but stagnating. He will always be trying new things and going in new directions. The core principles of the games might stay the same, or they might not, but ZUN seems like a guy who bores easily, to listen to or read his interviews anyway. I wouldn't expect him to revisit EoSD, for example.

I'm not going to tell you how to look at Touhou or that your opinions are wrong. Everyone has individual tastes. But there's change going on from game to game, there is an evolution happening; just maybe not to the extent that you'd like. I was just trying to say that you've kinda ... repeated yourself many different times on this topic. That's all.

(Personally, on my wish list is something I love about Imperishable Night - the fork in the road in Stage 5. Wouldn't it be great if he created more intersections in a game? That I'd love to see. And maybe he'll go there again, who knows?)
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: OkashiiKisei on April 17, 2010, 08:55:15 PM

(Personally, on my wish list is something I love about Imperishable Night - the fork in the road in Stage 5. Wouldn't it be great if he created more intersections in a game? That I'd love to see. And maybe he'll go there again, who knows?)

Maybe two intersections or something like that? Or an intersection early on in the game that may lead to a drastically different storyline and bosses? That would be pretty neat, actually. :3
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 17, 2010, 08:56:54 PM
You mean "different storyline" as in "same source of conflict, but they go about it differently", or "different storyline" as "different source of conflict and results"?
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 17, 2010, 09:12:27 PM
Yes, I'd like to see that too. This could make for a larger game, more characters and basically something that is a little different from the norm. Maybe add somethings in one route you can't see in the other, like say a character exclusive to that route or a storyline that takes a turn that's different from the normal route?

Metal Slug 3 comes to mind when I think of something like this (albeit in less of a story oriented way and more in a 'choose this way to get some new scenery and face new enemies that can kill you in 2 seconds).
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: orinrin on April 17, 2010, 09:19:39 PM
Always save before a route split.


Oh wait.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: OkashiiKisei on April 17, 2010, 09:25:09 PM
You mean "different storyline" as in "same source of conflict, but they go about it differently", or "different storyline" as "different source of conflict and results"?

Rather that, around stage 3 or so, that you can pick which path you take, and then you fight a completely different enemy depending on your path. Like, there is a war between two factions, and both aren't really the good guy or the bad guy. You can either go beat up faction 1 (stage 4A, 5A and 6A) or faction 2 (stage 4B, 5B and 6B). Each has completely different bosses and result in a completely different enemy. The faction that doesn't get beat up by you wins this 'war', and tells you that everyone will be alright. However, in either ending there is a small indication that it will just start over again soon, or that the faction that won will bring major changes/chaos to Gensokyo. In the Extra Stage you will find the one who caused this feud, and by beating him/her up you get the two factions to stop fighting and come at peace. That way Gensokyo isn't in danger anymore!

Yes, I'd like to see that too. This could make for a larger game, more characters and basically something that is a little different from the norm. Maybe add somethings in one route you can't see in the other, like say a character exclusive to that route or a storyline that takes a turn that's different from the normal route?

Metal Slug 3 comes to mind when I think of something like this (albeit in less of a story oriented way and more in a 'choose this way to get some new scenery and face new enemies that can kill you in 2 seconds).

Exactly, but with different endings, like in Sonic Adventure 2. The Extra Stage will function as the True/Last Story.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: E-Nazrin on April 17, 2010, 09:31:33 PM
Tengukami and N-Forza have the right of it.

It's worth noting that there are two possible camps for what can happen when there's a significant change to a series, if I may invoke TV Tropes: They Changed It, Now It Sucks vs. the "gods, will you just do SOMETHING different already!" bit Muffin pointed out. Either way it's a risk, but to be fair, you probably have fewer existing fans to please in the latter camp, most of the time.

But I think the best way to handle this risk once you have a basic formula that works is to only play with little things in the main series itself, but do some branching out in the meantime to experiment with bigger changes in spinoff series/games and see what the response is. That way, your main series is less likely to get directly tanked/tarnished by an over-changed (or badly-changed) entry, while it gives you some weight to start off other ideas with.

Via the N.5 games, I think this is what ZUN's BEEN doing, by trying out (endorsing?) a danmaku-based fighting game mini-series and apparently getting industry recognition for the innovations of Shoot the Bullet. The changes in the main series are mild (but existent) aside from a new set of characters and music and slowly shifting styles, but he's still playing around with the spinoffs. And one of the big benefits of a strong fandom with relatively free reign is that fan creations can cover an even broader range of gameplay and styles than a single individual or studio can hope to achieve - if you like the characters and/or music and/or whatever, but don't care much for the official games, then keep an eye out for other ways to capitalize on what you like. Origins are important, but not the be-all-end-all.

What was I saying again?
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Iced Fairy on April 17, 2010, 10:45:42 PM
On a different note...  I wonder how much of this is due to the weakening of the anime/manga market in general?  I wonder how many of the doujin writers looked around, saw nothing they liked except Touhou and just went for it?

In addition, Touhou is pretty much easy mode for fanworks.  Weak canon, loads of characters, and self contained storylines.  Toss in a bit of bandwagon and you could get pretty impressive numbers.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Tengukami on April 18, 2010, 12:19:56 AM
In addition, Touhou is pretty much easy mode for fanworks.  Weak canon, loads of characters, and self contained storylines.  Toss in a bit of bandwagon and you could get pretty impressive numbers.

Definitely. I never considered writing fanfiction until Touhou. It does seem to have all the right elements for translating into any number of mediums.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: N-Forza on April 18, 2010, 01:15:51 AM
And thank (insert favirote gensokyo shrine here)'s god for that because I cant get enough of the music.

Litterally, I can't because I cant find where to get some of it  :V
Japan :V
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Sabino on April 18, 2010, 01:59:45 AM
Definitely. I never considered writing fanfiction until Touhou. It does seem to have all the right elements for translating into any number of mediums.

Yeah, I guess that's for leaving open lots of loose ends. I find that those "loose-end settings" like Sakuya and Eirin, or life of Reseidents of SDM, and Moriya shrine before Gensoukyou really help stir up imagination.

Oh, and if nobody mentioned already; ZUN says OK to all those doujin stuff (except for the anime which he said to watch out of overdoing it)
as opposed to all those stuff out there saying "Copy right protected! Get too close and we'll have your fingers for breakfast!"
...Well, maybe that's over saying it, but the fact that ZUN has acceptance to doujin stuff is really important too.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: ♛ Apher-Forte on April 18, 2010, 05:37:24 AM
Yes I think it would be fun if we can get something like a bad end.

heck, if one wishes to, maybe if you defeated a boss with a continue you get to fight an alternative boss?
all these multi-faceted ideas changes the idea of Touhou for those who have had experience with it and wanted more.

Ideally, how is a story that doesn't end with a tea party but OMG TORTURE sounds like?
On a different note...  I wonder how much of this is due to the weakening of the anime/manga market in general?  I wonder how many of the doujin writers looked around, saw nothing they liked except Touhou and just went for it?

In addition, Touhou is pretty much easy mode for fanworks.  Weak canon, loads of characters, and self contained storylines.  Toss in a bit of bandwagon and you could get pretty impressive numbers.
I am sure most doujin artists in order to ensure their circle gets recognized quickly will bandwagon into the nearest most popular subject, in this case Touhou. A while ago it was Idolmaster, and a while longer before it was Futari Prettycure.

Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Aisha on April 18, 2010, 05:45:23 AM
When the Touhou fanbase begins to decline, I don't think there is anything ZUN could change to keep it afloat. He would need to something radical like come out with Touhou on a completely new medium, like a (good) anime. He mainly puts out Touhou through the games, but I don't think that most of the fanbase revolves around them as much as it does around particular elements from them, namely the characters and the music. Sure ZUN could change his games up; I've mentioned elsewhere that he should introduce an entirely different scoring system to change the gameplay completely; but that's only good for the fans who are mainly into the games. Once Reimu loses her appeal and fans realize that some other guy in another wing of Tokyou Big Sight can also create good music and draw lolis with funny hats, ZUN is fucked. Of course Touhou won't die, especially if ZUN keeps making the games for himself, but the fanbase won't be as big as it is now, and there won't be as much derivative work based on Touhou. It's inevitable that something else will come along.

This is heavy speculation (as was the above paragraph :V), but I'm also wondering if there's some growing resentment towards Touhou overall from doujin fans who aren't into Touhou. Going by what someone said about Touhou making up about half of all doujin (probably a huge overstatement), the present situation has to suck for non-Touhou doujin fans. I know that if I were in such a position I'd probably start reconsidering my hobbies and stop making regular trips to Comiket and doujin shops if all I saw was all Touhou, all the time. Applying this to the general doujin fanbase and I'm wondering if traffic to Comiket and doujin stores will decline, and we'll see second party (i.e., vendors) regulation of Touhou supply, perhaps opening the window for something else to take its place.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Iced Fairy on April 18, 2010, 05:58:20 AM
This is heavy speculation (as was the above paragraph :V), but I'm also wondering if there's some growing resentment towards Touhou overall from doujin fans who aren't into Touhou. Going by what someone said about Touhou making up about half of all doujin (probably a huge overstatement), the present situation has to suck for non-Touhou doujin fans. I know that if I were in such a position I'd probably start reconsidering my hobbies and stop making regular trips to Comiket and doujin shops if all I saw was all Touhou, all the time. Applying this to the general doujin fanbase and I'm wondering if traffic to Comiket and doujin stores will decline, and we'll see second party (i.e., vendors) regulation of Touhou supply, perhaps opening the window for something else to take its place.

Hm... I don't know if it'll be fan blowout, burnout or just a shift in the market as new anime and manga come out, but I'm certain the amount of Touhou doujin will drop rapidly at some point.  Those numbers aren't really sustainable.

However I also don't think it'll damage the fanbase too much.  Sure the numbers will decrease a bit, but I hardly think anyone would be crushed if next year there was only 2000 touhou doujins instead of 5000.  I personally think the doujin craze isn't totally linked to the fanbase as a whole.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Sabino on April 18, 2010, 07:34:09 AM
This is heavy speculation (as was the above paragraph :V), but I'm also wondering if there's some growing resentment towards Touhou overall from doujin fans who aren't into Touhou. Going by what someone said about Touhou making up about half of all doujin (probably a huge overstatement), the present situation has to suck for non-Touhou doujin fans. I know that if I were in such a position I'd probably start reconsidering my hobbies and stop making regular trips to Comiket and doujin shops if all I saw was all Touhou, all the time. Applying this to the general doujin fanbase and I'm wondering if traffic to Comiket and doujin stores will decline, and we'll see second party (i.e., vendors) regulation of Touhou supply, perhaps opening the window for something else to take its place.
The doujin craze of the comicket is partly there for people who want to get in to the field of manga, games, music, anime... etc.
Its just that there are also lots of people who come to enjoy that as a sort of party and lots of people who come to target that certain market.
For example, many of the manga artists that we see today has had experience making doujins in the Comick market.
A famous example is the artist Koge donbo.

So, even if the majority of the stuff is Touhou, it wouldn't matter for people that are actually there for the Comick market.
People who go there to get "entertained" or feeling like they're "guests" or "customers" or something.... THOSE are the people who shall get lost quickly.
(Or at least that's the ideal of these events. Same goes for the Hakurei Shrine Reitaisai)
Another thing to note is that doujin artist rarely do stuff like "only on series", and that's because they will put "what they want to make" in front of what'll sell.
(One of the doujin artists that I follow went from Leaf and Kea only all the way to making Gundam, Geass, and Touhou stuff. Mind you, I actually do go around to their home pages and check out what thay're up to. Been doing it for quite some while actually.)
So its not rare to find something like a Magical girl R18+ doujin beside a clean Touhou doujin. ... Or even a JOJO doujin artbook.
The only places where your speculations can take place are doujin shops, but the guys running those stores are quite smart too and they do a good job of balancing out what they have as well as checking out the market too.

When the fanbase will fall is most likely when ZUN decides to quit Touhou, and new stuff stops coming out. (Or ZUN dies from alcohol overdose)
-Which is unlikely to happen since he said that he makes the games for his reliever from actual work.-
or when it finishes going through its prime.  ...Although we have yet to decide when was the prime... or has the prime yet to come?
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on April 18, 2010, 08:27:23 AM
Japan :V

Where the hell is ruro's headshot emote!! ah here it is-

 :colonveeplusalpha:

*dead*
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Firestorm29 on April 18, 2010, 11:16:28 AM
Yes I think it would be fun if we can get something like a bad end.

heck, if one wishes to, maybe if you defeated a boss with a continue you get to fight an alternative boss?
all these multi-faceted ideas changes the idea of Touhou for those who have had experience with it and wanted more.

Ideally, how is a story that doesn't end with a tea party but OMG TORTURE sounds like?I am sure most doujin artists in order to ensure their circle gets recognized quickly will bandwagon into the nearest most popular subject, in this case Touhou. A while ago it was Idolmaster, and a while longer before it was Futari Prettycure.

That got me thinking to R-Type Final with the 3 stage split depending on if you hit certain flags or not. I just hope if ZUN does do that, it won't be a Stage F-A.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Bias Bus on April 18, 2010, 04:33:10 PM
Yes I think it would be fun if we can get something like a bad end.

heck, if one wishes to, maybe if you defeated a boss with a continue you get to fight an alternative boss?
all these multi-faceted ideas changes the idea of Touhou for those who have had experience with it and wanted more.

Ideally, how is a story that doesn't end with a tea party but OMG TORTURE sounds like?
Yes that sounds very interesting indeed.
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 18, 2010, 04:54:53 PM
Where the hell is ruro's headshot emote!! ah here it is-

 :colonveeplusalpha:

*dead*
GAME OVER YEAAAHHHHHH
Title: Re: Touhou doujins outnumber all others in Japan
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on April 18, 2010, 06:39:02 PM
GAME OVER NOOOOO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaHFOpN5ifE) ... noooo! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQzruqWMGfs)

 :V
extra lives bitch!