Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Letters to the Editor => Topic started by: helvetica on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

Title: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: helvetica on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

Things have happened and things have changed.  I don't know if it'll ever go back to how it was, or if I even want it to.  When April 1st rolled around I was just expecting a little humor, maybe a little overreaction, then some gratitude and things back to normal.  What instead I got was a view of how MotK really feels towards the idea of "community", how the users feel about the staff, and how users felt about eachother.  What I saw broke me in ways you can hardly imagine.

I've poured my soul, my finances, my freetime, everything, into saving MotK from ruin and attempting to build it up as a community I could be proud of being in.  I didn't take this position on for fame, or to feed a need to have power, or anything like that.  I took the position because at the time the community was teetering on collapse and I had the resources to give back to something I loved.  But in the end I feel I've failed as stewart and as head admin of this community.

I feel I failed as an admin to keep the two facets of this community, MotK the forums, and #shrinemaiden its IRC sister, together as one whole.  Originally my home was IRC and I joined the community that way, and frankly I spent too much of my energy catering to them at first.  I let the forums decay because frankly I felt I had no reason to care; all of the people I socialized with were on IRC.  After seeing how far the forums fell I made a promise to not neglect the forums again, and attempt to rebridge the gap.  To treat all of MotK as equal, not just the part I like interacting in.  But April Fools proved I failed just as miserably.

At first I thought it was kind of funny how much you guys were overreacting.  We sold ourselves well, maybe too well, but in the end we thought it was just a harmless tease with a good result in the end.  What I personally didn't expect, was the amount of vitriol to surface.  After a while it became more and more apparent this wasn't just posturing and off the cuff remarks, but sentiment that has been brewing for a while now.  Sentiment I definitely feel I didn't deserve.

AF, you said horrible, vile, untrue things about me.  Things I cannot easily forgive, and may never.  I will fully admit I called for your head several times, but in the end I decided to let you go.  I would be just as bad of a person as you are if I chose to abuse my position for personal vendetta.

As for the rest of the people who chose such awful words for me, I cannot describe how much you hurt me.  I have done everything I could to not be this "power hungry tyrant" people seem to think I am.  I spend most of my freetime working for this site, and in the end you guys.  Hell even after I said I was gone I have secretly been working behind the scenes making sure things work.  And yet I don't get anything as much as a thank you.

Now I will clarify myself.  I don't do this for gratitude, but to get nothing but bitching and moaning and complaints over everything I do gets old.  Even despite the brand new theme and months of work I spent working on the upgrade all I got was a "this was a terrible joke go kill yourself".  When I offered to move #meido to PPIrC, I didn't do it because I wanted to control #meido.  No, I did it because I spent a long time building a stable IRC home for MotK and providing all the bells and whistles.  To be brushed off as "seizing power" hurt me immensely.

But above all, none of you had the decency to lay your grievances to me personally, instead choosing to whisper behind closed doors and behind my back.  I do not demand, nor expect, respect because of my position, nor do I want it solely because of that.  I do not want to be feared or worshipped, just treated with decency.  If I have a problem with you I will bring it up with you privately, not whisper nasty things to other people.

You set me on a pedestal all alone with your actions.  You act as if I am some scary untouchable person, someone who will smite you for looking at me funny.  You know how alone that makes me feel?  How isolated and detatched from the community I desperately want to be a part of?  Noone even says hi to me unless I start the conversation, noone talks to me unless there's something broke.  And to hear I make you "censor" yourselves when I am around, makes me feel awful.  What's the point of working for the community when you just get shunned and separated in the end? =/

Kanako, UK, and others I put on my "hate list" (except UD and Mima, go fuck yourselves), I was just joking.  I apologize for any grief I caused.  I purposely intersparsed people I liked in the list to try to make it obvious it was a ploy.  Nemoma, I know I've already apologized in private, but I'd like to repeat myself openly.  As for everyone else, I admit I was a bit overzealous with the joke, and given the chance I'd probably not make it so believable.

But at the same time you guys need to lighten up immensely.  I tried to make it absurd and obvious it was a joke, and to see so many people fall for it and then be angry about it afterwards made me really depressed.  So what we had a little humor at your expense, was it really that awful to be without a forum for a day (and then to get back a shinier upgraded one)?  Get off your high horse for a second and calm down.  Maybe the joke was in poor taste, but the responses after it was revealed it was all a ruse were far worse.

Is that what you really see me capable of doing?  You truely think I would ever do something like that?  For what I do here I should be making a lot of money, but I don't do it for that.  Nor do I do it for fame or ego or anything really beyond giving back.  Realize I'm a human being, and a member of this community just like you.  Ask yourselves these things next time before you fly off the handle and say things that are very hurtful =/

Tell me why should I remain (or not remain) your head admin.  Here's your chance to really tell me if you want me to stay or go.  If you don't want to openly voice your opinion, then feel free to PM it to me.  But do not just cower in a corner and whisper behind my back because it is pointless and insulting.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Nat Tea on April 13, 2010, 06:57:02 AM

You're the one that made MotK how it is today, you made change.

My selfishness would tell you to stay, but my true feelings would say to do what makes you feel happier.

I still don't know what to say, I'm not good with people and I've always made decisions for everyone else.

I just don't know.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Furienify on April 13, 2010, 07:16:05 AM

I've only known you for a brief while, TSO, but I've honestly had no problems with your adminship here. Though I haven't been around long enough for most IRC drama, #meido appears to despise me too, so at least you don't have to be alone for that one.

For the pedestal: honestly, I don't find you unapproachable at all. I'm not sure why anyone would, you were far less intimidating than any of the other mods/admins back when I first joined.

At the same time, it's been very clear to me from the start that this issue has been taxing for you. I can see why. With that in mind, I want to say (and please let me justify this): I wouldn't have been surprised if MotK had actually been taken down on April 1st. You seriously seemed like you could have been pushed to the edge.

I gathered this just from two interactions/observations of you: first, way back when, there was that CPMC drama thread that Letty started. I was actually going back to read it today (unsure why, but it was in the archives) and I noticed all the signs that I missed that you were, definitely, very pissed off. I couldn't blame you. The signs were so obvious, too, but I had no idea what was going on at the time. Retrospect is 20/20 I guess. The second was just from an IRC conversation where you slipped some things in passing.

So with this in mind- all the bad things people may say about you, the cold way people treat you, all of it- I wouldn't have been surprised if you pulled the plug. Not because I think you're evil or terrible or anything. It's for the very reason you said- you're a human being. I could honestly see myself getting pissed off and just dropping it when things got as bad as they sometimes did for you. Shit happens. Sometimes a lot of shit happens.

Regardless of all this, I really would welcome you back. Not just to get the dating game off Ruro, either. Compared many of the other mods, you're very much more human and approachable (this is just personal opinion!). You've worked your ass off for this place, too, and I really appreciate that. My small danmakufu entry in the recent contest is a result of that. I seriously could care less that you're unpopular: so long as you know that some of us here appreciate you and we don't have to have conflicts like this anymore, everything's peachy.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: ES-Anthy on April 13, 2010, 07:20:39 AM

To be honest, It really isn't right if the person who made all of this just ended up handing the torch to someone else. I never really took a position when the 4/1/10 or 1/4/10 incident came around, I just ended up being one of those people who just never really said anything about this.

I do support you remaining the head admin, for the fact that you made all of this. If you choose to pass it on yourself, that's your decision and honestly I'll support either way.

Sorry if my post is rather odd, I'm not good with conflict or people either.

With one last thing, I think the reason why so many people went into a shitstorm about it was because the lot of us don't know the term of overkill. :V

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: trancehime on April 13, 2010, 07:21:27 AM

You know what? During the entire fiasco, I was willing to turn everyone against me to try and justify that you didn't deserve any of this. I didn't, because in the end, I thought people were smart enough to resolve things on their own, and I already knew that that was a joke anyways. I think what I have said alone will suffice that I pretty much believe that you should stick around, people being ungrateful, unsufferable fucktards will never change. It's painful, I realize this - I've seen how much you've suffered, TSO, ever since I joined motk and #sm those years ago. There was a precedent for that style of joke, people found it very distasteful - can't say I blame them, sadly - but still, what really disgusts me is that even AFTER it was revealed to be a joke, people couldn't be relieved about their shit being saved and then taking it like a good sport. They had to be insufferable assholes about it. You could do nothing, so I don't see why you should have to feel remorse or sadness about that.

I reitterate, people being insufferable asses will never change. Afterwards, it seems many people want you back. It is of your own volition whether you want to turn away or not, but I'm thinking that many people here will still want you back.

Honestly, in making this thread, you're probably going to cause a lot of the virulence that died down to suddenly spring up again, but that's probably because... Of other things. Anyway, be prepared.

I'm not going to be one to impose what you should do. As I've always told you, just do what you believe is best for yourself.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on April 13, 2010, 07:23:54 AM

I dunno if you should go back to being head admin, that is for you to decide.
It's your decision whether the outcome is worth all the trouble, work and probably headaches you've got to go through.

But I'd definitely like to see you stay in the community.
That is, of course, as long as there are people you like here, and things you find fun to do.
It always hurt to see the person responsible for giving everyone here this great place to stay being the one shut out most from the community.

Maybe you should just become a normal member for the time being, so that you can take part in things without having that cursed head-admin-stigma floating over everything you do.
That may sound a bit too optimistic, but it may get people to realize that you're as much of a normal human as everyone else.
Of course, it would be even better if you could take part in the fun even as a head-admin.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: communist unity (comm-unity) on April 13, 2010, 07:43:06 AM

_{This is probably a bad idea as it's 3:36 AM in the morning, but let's do this.}

Kind of sad seeing some of the disrespect you've gotten; there's legitimate criticism, and then there's just being an ass.  In most cases? It's usually the latter. Starting up a proper webforum and IRC server is quite the task, and getting an actual community for those is a pretty respectable accomplishment -- it's probably more than I could ever do on my own self-motivation and work. and I respect you for that, you've given us a nice forum here. That's something to be proud of.

I'll admit I was pretty annoyed at the joke as well, with the whole downtime part of it; I dislike most april's fools jokes in general though, that's just me. Of course, that pretty much went away when it was revealed that the downtime was actually legitimate, as you were upgrading the entire forum.

Sadly, there's always going to be assholes and ignorant kids who hate positions of power solely because they're positions of power. You've just got to ignore them, then they can go cause trouble and get their jollies somewhere else. I highly doubt that most users here hate you, TSO. There's just happens to be an extremely vocal minority that do.

As if you should stay or not, personally I think you should remain head admin, moderator, or at the very least an active member of the community. If the pressure gets too much you can always take a little break and hand the duties to one of the other staff. Ultimately though, it's up to you. It's your choice, not ours.


_{(Personally? Anyone who doesn't forgive TSO for what may or may not be a slightly tasteless joke by now is seriously kidding themselves and needs to seek professional help. It's was a relatively joke on april's fools; it's not like TSO  killed your dog or something. Chill out.)}

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Gappy on April 13, 2010, 07:44:28 AM

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but after appraising things, it seems those who think negatively of you in particular are only in the minority. A very small (but loud) minority. Most users have only heard of you by name and thus know little to nothing about you. And there's a good number of users who actually think very highly of you and are appreciative for everything. And the few people I've asked about you specifically as an admin can't name any specific faults at all (at least, backed with evidence. Such people still call you a tyrant, but they have no proof to back up their claims). The best they can come up with is 'the staff in general'  (and for this they can actually provide evidence, but not to your name specifically), which I guess means there's a little infamy-by-association going on here. Problem is, you're not seen around the forum much and thus the impressionable newcomers only hear the worst about you from said loud minority, however baseless.

As for people who think negatively about the forums and staff as a whole, there are far more of those, but as I said, not many pin it particularly on you.

You must understand, the April Fools joke you yourself contrived did not paint you in a good light at all. While people were sceptical at first, we staff did a good job at convincing people it was real. Once they started believing it was true, it is no surprise they came to think you were cold-hearted enough to do something like that. Now we all know it was a joke, no? No harm done. We did go a little overboard and most of us staff members have gone about making both personal and formal apologies. Maybe a little help and effort from all of us together can help push everyone along to get over that little episode.

In answer to your question, harsh as it seems, I don't think anybody here can really tell you the answer. It is for you and yourself to decide whether or not to return as the head. None of us can decide for you, tell you what to do, or give you a reason to. We can give you our opinions and support, but in the end it is your choice.

Myself? Despite what happened, I decided to stay. It took me some consideration, introspection and general support and advice from friend to realize that, in the long term, I would better serve the community as a staff member than leaving outright. As such I owe everyone an apology for my rashness and lack of foresight. In the past 2 weeks I've seen that wrongs can be righted. That you and other fellow staff members fulfil promises. And everyone has begun moving forwards. You proved yourself right when you told me 'things can be fixed'. Now I believe that. And I believe things on your end can be fixed too. It just requires the willingness to reach out on both sides. And now that you've put all your troubles on the table, hopefully others will come along and put theirs on the table too, and, somehow, we can all reach at least a compromise. You know full well us staff are here to help you do just that and bridge whatever gap you perceive to exist between you and the community. So take heart, TSO!

EDIT: I would also like to add that ever since becoming a staff member I got to see more of what goes on behind the scenes, all the active work and effort that goes into keeping the forum ticking over nicely. It's a privilege to be able to get to know and understand you and the other staff members better. However, unfortunately, that privilege is only allowed to the few who have access to the staff forums. Which is why I, again, emphasize that all that needs to be done is to reach out and allow people to understand, to make people aware and to allow them to overcome the baseless prejudice and misconceptions about you and the staff.

EDIT2: Actually, Sakana suggested a really good idea. Why don't you take a break from being admin for a while and try going about as a normal member? Post in the forums and come on #touhou-meido as a member, rather than an admin. Show everyone that you're as human and friendly as the rest of us, as you've shown me and the rest of the staff. As I said, reach out and help people overcome their baseless prejudice and misconceptions.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Hello Purvis on April 13, 2010, 07:53:51 AM

I've always been straight with you we've spoken, but admittedly we've not spoken much.

Furienfy has said a lot of of what I thought about the incident itself; it did feel like you were on edge enough to do it. You have, from what you've revealed to us, a hell of a stressful life. I would not have been surprised if that stress had gotten to you, and when disparate mods and admins whose opinions I trust, were fully acting as though it were the case, I was pretty much fooled. The doubt it was real turned to hope it was fake and the grim feeling it probably wasn't. And, yes, that engendered some black thoughts about you, as up til that point I had believed you a benevolent leader and felt betrayed. I don't remember how much or how intensely I vocalized them. Either way, I owe you an apology for that.

Do you want to return and chill with peoples here? I presume you do, or this thread wouldn't exist. I would like to have you back. If someone does not, well, that's their issue. You have as much right to be here as any of us.

Should you be head admin? Well, do you want to be? From what I understand, you hate the stress of it. I don't think anyone would be upset with you if you declined to do it. If you want to, I have no problems with it.

Anyways, you would like us to speak up? I suppose I shall say a thing I've kept to myself for awhile. Since the whole incident with whether to move #meido to ppirc, I think you have been too quick to declare people hate you and are trying to undermine you. You cite that people talk behind your back as a reason. That, unfortunately, is natural. we expect people to hold grudges when we say bad things to them, especially things that are bad and have some aspect of truth to it. I would say most of the people here do this, myself included. I am very aware of how hard it is not to hold a grudge when someone says unpleasant things about me, and I know that just disinclines people to do it. But I'm drifting from my point. I think you are too willing to decry others as hating you. I felt this personally when you declared CPMC and #meido as some sort of rebel secessionist faction that is out to get you. And that made me feel rather unfairly demonized. I am sure I'm not the only one who felt this way and did not deserve it.

However, despite this, I would still like to see you come back.  If you still wish to be head admin, I am happy to have you in the throne. If not, I am fine with this too. But, whatever you choose, I do want you to stay. You deserve to be here if you want to.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Tengukami on April 13, 2010, 07:55:19 AM

I know I already said words to this effect on the staff board, but I'll say it again, publicly.

You made for us a home that's everything I could ask for in a Touhou community. Without this place, I'd have to go back to Poosh, and I'd rather eat my own hands than go back there. For this place and everything you've done, I'm very, very grateful.

I do think you might be letting a few very loud people drown out the whole, in this case. The prevailing attitude towards you is a positive one, as far as I've seen.

If you feel you need to take a break, no one would hold it against you. But I think nearly all of us would be sad to see you go permanently.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: E-Nazrin on April 13, 2010, 08:58:40 AM

Oh, no. Why did it have to start again this way?

Phew... I've had this on my mind for a few days as well, and I was hoping to coordinate a better way to manage it, but... it looks like things broke. I could suggest some rules of engagement, but I'm not sure how well they'd work.

Here's to hoping this doesn't blow up too badly, or at least much worse.

..... I would like to be harsh about this, and hopefully fair, if I can handle it. But what with having emotions and all, I can't entirely guarantee it.

So I would like to ask: May I be harsh?

As part of this, here's part of the 'rules of engagement' I had in mind that I would like to be applied to my posts in this thread: If I word something here unreasonably, please, would one of the moderators take the offending segment, put it on pastebin or something, and try to reword it into something more neutral, while making the changed text also a link to the original version on pastebin for those that want to see it?

Gap and Purvis have outlined large parts of what I would like to say here - that some sort of civil discussion here should be able to come up with a better solution than lingering resentment, and that, sorry to say it, Fate is not entirely blameless in this matter.

I want to work this out. I really do. I've been scheming in the background the past few days about how to go about this. Discussed it with a few other staff members, for that matter. This really isn't how I wanted to start it. But I'm going to try and see it through. Let's see if what I've learned is of any use.....

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: N-Forza on April 13, 2010, 10:22:58 AM

Honestly, I don't see where the hate is coming from. Maybe I'm oblivious, or maybe it's just because I don't talk in the IRC channels, and I was fairly busy during the whole April Fools' fiasco, but I rarely see any criticism, constructive or otherwise, levied at you outside of these kinds of threads. I understand you're stressed from real life and the whole April Fools thing went over like a lead-filled balloon, but like Purvis said, I think part of the problem is paranoia. Even to those who are belly-aching about the way you handle things, if they're just being jerks, ignoring them would be the best course of action, because they're probably hypocrites anyway. You aren't going to make everyone happy regardless, and if they were REALLY unhappy with you, they'd leave the forums or IRC entirely.

So basically, from my point of view, a lot of people need to chill out. Just forget the April Fools fiasco, be more open about opinions, stop acting so uptight, and don't make accusations without evidence. Not taking things for granted is important too, but it's poor form to go fishing for compliments too, unless it's an extreme case like this.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Solais on April 13, 2010, 11:02:09 AM

Well, maybe I should tell my story, how I got associated with things here. I'm not a good speaker, by nature, but I try what I can. I was here for three months when I first got to notice you, and that specified minority did urged me to hate you. I felt comfortably in the safe heaven of CPMC, what you then tried to destroy. Then, my other safe heaven, #meido. I felt that I hated you, and I was afraid to ask you, "why?".
It was the very friends and supporters of you in this forum - those who make me feel that I'm lucky enough to call them friends too - who told me the answer to my question, "Why?". They were the one who taught me how to see the reason beyond everything that seems wrong. And in the end, during this whole April Fools mess, I could say out loud, that I don't hate you, but respect you deeply enough to show my signs of respect - to call you a "she" , as I have told all members of #meido, that this is the greatest sign of my respect for you, just because of the fact that we don't really know each other. And I do feel that I owe you a great apology for my hatred in the past.

I don't write this in the behalf of me - as I barely know you - but all those I've seen being depressed, even after all those weeks you've left. It's not just me I want you to come back, but all those who already voiced their opinion in this thread before me, I'm nothing but a part of the great thing what you have created.
And just like the others said, the choice is yours, but I suggest too, that maybe you should be just a normal member first. Maybe all those newbies who don't know you and are in the same pool as I was, would know that you're not the tyrant what the minorities make them to believe, but a very decent girl. Just like what the great Hungarian ruler, King Mathias the Righteous did.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 13, 2010, 01:17:20 PM

And here I was about to start a Post Here To Wait With Open Arms For TSO To Return thread on CPMMMMC.

TSO, I think you're really underestimating yourself. You haven't realised just how many people here are rooting for you, hoping that you'll come back and become part of the community again. If people had really been so thoroughly disgusted by the April Fool's joke, isn't it more logical to think they'd have just voted with their feet and stopped visiting? And yet we're still here, because just like you we value this community.

Personally, I owe you a good deal of gratitude. You were the first and loudest voice trying to help me when I was being distraught. You honestly wanted to help me, so I know for a fact you're a good person. You just seem horribly insecure and afraid you aren't doing a good job.

I wonder, though. You're afraid that people don't see you as a person, just a puppeteer running things behind the scenes. So prove them wrong and start joining in with the stuff everyone else is doing. Play along with the text adventures in RPG, read stuff in PSL, comment in TARC or post in CPMC, anything like that. If a temporary step-down from head admin is necessary to really get that going, then I'm all for it. (Emphasis on 'temporary', though.)

In short, I don't want to see you so thoroughly unhappy about how things are going, TSO. And no-one else here does either. I won't lie, most days I would look at your profile and see if you had come back to post yet.

A little exercise, if you'll forgive me. TSO, just read this page for a while. Read all the words people are offering you, words of thanks and congratulations for what you've made of MotK. Now, pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself for every happy poster. You deserve commendment like that after all your hard work, even if you yourself find it hard to believe sometimes. =3

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Nemo★Ma on April 13, 2010, 01:40:05 PM

Remember, to be an admin of a forum, firstly you must become a member of the forum.
The reason why lots of people falls for the trick on April Fools is because they believed the ragepost and you are really selling the domain for $1200 (A large amount of money).

However, if you spend more time on the forum, like random posting or replying, maybe people will not fall for the joke because no one will going to sell her only home for some money.

Recently a member called Komari*Kamitika posted something "silly" in CPMC about putting stars in your nicknames. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5692.0)  Which I found to be very interesting.

So why not just relax, (maybe put stars in your nicknames as well), and having fun, not as an admin, but a normal member. Not only on IRC, but the forums too. All the management can wait.

PS: Thanks for the usergroup, and I forgive you after reading this post, people generally has stereotypes against admins. It's the admin's job to break this stereotype.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Helepolis on April 13, 2010, 03:10:35 PM

Quote from: N-Forza on April 13, 2010, 10:22:58 AM

So basically, from my point of view, a lot of people need to chill out. Just forget the April Fools fiasco, be more open about opinions, stop acting so uptight, and don't make accusations without evidence. Not taking things for granted is important too, but it's poor form to go fishing for compliments too, unless it's an extreme case like this.

Winner post of the thread so far. Not because I am praising Forza.

But because I have been saying the same opinion around on forum, PM, irc (whether it be #sm , #danmakufu or #meido). Ever wondered why Keine isn't in #meido since a few days? Because of no appreciation and uptight behaviour. Humans value/react to something when they lost it or about to lose it. And the april fools joke had proven it perfectly. Think about it for a moment.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Momiji on April 13, 2010, 03:46:58 PM

Yay!!  I'm glad you decided to post.  ^.^


(You know my opinion.  =] )

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: theshirn on April 13, 2010, 05:21:46 PM

Oh for the love of-

I will preface this with two remarks: one, I usually don't find practical jokes funny, and two, I missed the whole "fiasco" (stupid lack of interwebs grrr).

OK.  TSO, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I've seen bad admins, I've seen good ones.  I know what can happen when you get a jackass in authority.  I know what kind of forum that degenerates into.  I also know that a good admin is often all that stands between a forum and utter crap.  And I say this, and I wholeheartedly believe what I say:

MotK is a good place.  Even with all the forum drama, the occasional flame war and the odd idiotic member (banned and not), MotK is still one of the few forums on the internet I've found that I've stuck with for more than, say, a month.  I've been here over a year now, and I don't see myself going anywhere soon.

Running a forum is no easy task.  You need to pour heart and soul (and cash) into it in order to get returns.  And it can hurt when people don't appreciate it - but I tell you, here and now, that I do.

I'm not sure any of this makes you want to remain head admin for the forum.  But even if all it does is bring a smile to your face, it was worth the time.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Seian Verian on April 13, 2010, 05:41:18 PM

I... Don't know much about this situation honestly. Everything I know, I've heard from other people, thanks to missing the April Fools fiasco, which means I may be missing large pieces of the puzzle. Truthfully? I don't know you, or really, much of anyone, except just a couple of people. Despite that... I still can't stand to see you, even someone I don't know, like this. If you really feel like these things have been happening, then try to talk with those who haven't done it themselves. They might not want to respond to being called to it, I of all people know how difficult it can be to start one of these conversations.

Those who continue to be unreasonable, despite everything? Those who just insult you for no apparent reason? They aren't worth your time. They may well be just the kind of jerks who like to take advantage of someone being in a fragile or overwhelmed emotional state, and try to make it worse. I'm not saying that they are, as such a judgment may still be hasty even for someone who knows them. However, with all the people here that are trying to help? I don't think you're nearly as hated as you seem to believe. As people have said, it's probably just an incredibly vocal minority. Funny how those seem to apply in so many things.

Anyway, I dunno if my post is welcome, or really says anything worthwhile. But I just wanted to let you know that even someone like me, a stranger, is here to try to help. Whether or not I ever succeed is a different story, but... Yeah, I should just stop talking now.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Sapz on April 13, 2010, 05:49:30 PM

I was originally going to make a long-ass drawn out explanation about what I felt happened, but given how the points I was going to make have already been made I'll keep it simple. I fell for it completely; this was primarily due to not knowing you well enough to be an accurate judge of whether or not you'd actually do something like that. I apologise for doubting you. I'd like for you to stay - you've been the driving force behind what is by far my favourite forum, and I owe you a pretty huge 'thank you' for that. I can't really advise you on which you should pick, but I'm confident you'll be welcomed back with open arms should you choose to return.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Edible on April 13, 2010, 05:50:02 PM

If I didn't want you to stick around, I would have stopped supporting you, and this site, a long time ago.

And that's all I feel I need to say on the matter.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Chainsaw Guitar on April 13, 2010, 06:16:20 PM

Okay, I don't think there is anything I can say that can possibily convince you to stay as I am not a good speaker. But I love listening to what other people have to say, no matter how idiotic it may be. Hell, there are some users here that are rightfully banned that I miss. So please don't go. Like others have said; just take a break from your responsibilites, and post here as a normal member. Avoid the IRC for a while too. I know from personal experiance that that IMs are not a good place to be when you're stressed out or whatnot.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Drake on April 13, 2010, 06:17:54 PM

I'm also not going to respond with loads of text. In this situation I feel that it would just be a waste of time reading the same things over and over.

If anything, you posting this huge wall just solidifies my belief that you're a rational admin who I would continue to support. I like having you as an admin, and I was quite disappointed when it was revealed that you were really leaving after the prank was over. I am going to say that having added a few extra admins might reduce your load by a lot (though being the runner of the site is still stressful). I definitely do not want you to leave, but if you do need a month or whatever to recuperate I can totally respect (and encourage) that decision. Even saying this, I can tell just how much of a blow the responses from the prank must have done. It's not like you're a robot or something, admins have feelings too. I would not be surprised if you did in fact just leave. You're probably right in that your disposition towards many of the members here has changed and might not ever recover. But regardless, I would be devastated if you would leave, just as I would by any of the mods here (except maybe Edible, don't see him doing much lately; maybe being promoted will change that, dunno :P).

Please stay.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Nobu on April 13, 2010, 07:29:56 PM

Do what makes you happy TSO. Anything else I could say has probably already been said. And the amount of text in this message is not indicative of the amount I care (if anything, the amount of text in our regular disputes is indicative of that. :V ). Didn't want to retreat to the books without saying something at least. Stay a while. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y593kChlV6w)

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Ghaleon on April 13, 2010, 08:45:35 PM

I personally enjoy the site, and the staff. Honestly I'm pretty upset with the people who were bashing TSO during April first. I can appreciate and respect their distaste for the joke (If I had to scramble and backup a buncha art or fan-stories, or whatever just IN CASE it wasn't a joke, I'd feel like my whole day was wasted). But it's just a bad joke. I saw some (key word some, not many, so fret not TSO) acting like doing such a thing would be typical behavior on your part. Like you were some kind of monster. I asked several times WHY they thought so little of you OTHER than April first, and they all just repeated april first over and over. GG

So honestly, I don't really think anybody has a legitimate reason to hate you TSO, and I think the reasons why people appreciate you are obvious. Reading your post I see you mention that you do this, and don't get a thanks, or how you never get people just wanting to talk to you. I just want you to know that I think it does happen, you are just being blinded right now because you're upset like any other reasonable person would be after what happened.

The thing is you ARE the admin, and it is VERY difficult to compliment you without being seen as a suck-up, I've tried to in the past with my letters to the editor post (not you personally but the people managing the site, I don't think I even k new you were admin at the time). I've even sent you a PM or two in the past about stuff unrelated to your duties as an admin. You responded yes, and I appreciate it, I understand you must get alot and be pressed for time. But I'm just saying that you can't say the effort is not being made, and I sincerely doubt I'm the one exception in the whole community.

I also recall you seemed to post more often when I was a new member, I remember one thread about Advance wars, and you drew us a loli-brenner or something, that was epic. Anyway, I'm not saying this to criticize that you aren't "there" enough for us. But that the few times you can be, people enjoy it, that's why you should say.

As for being admin, I'm not staff, so I don't know all the mechanics and whatnot. I think asking non staff that isn't really something they can answer fairly. All we can do is say we love the site, and that staff as a whole seems to do a great job maintaining it. Whatever is being done now is clearly being done right. So changing things is probably not a good idea.

I personally have oodles to say, and I'm quite upset that talking about April first is a no-no. I think it's important and that people should discuss it. I think the drama that might ensue should be said. People don't like people talking being their backs, so why keep these issues under a rug?

I wish the people who had a problem with TSO, or any staff member can really say why in a constructive way. I can appreciate people not liking them for personal reasons or whatever, but I think people should be mature enough to know that they work for the benefit of the site and the community, so constructive criticism will help a helluva lot more than personal angst.

The people who bashed TSO, you know who you are, honestly I hope you feel ashamed. But notice how you haven't been banned, or snowballed. Please take the opportunity to collect your wits and really say your grievances in a mature manner so we can resolve this. I don't want to lose TSO, nor do I want to lose Letty (where's letty? wahh), or videogamer (err..wait. nm >=P) or any other (real)member because of this whole fiasco.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Azure Lazuline on April 13, 2010, 10:32:41 PM

People have already said most of what I was going to, so I won't be redundant. There's one thing you overlooked, though.

Quote from: Yagami Hayate on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

As for the rest of the people who chose such awful words for me, I cannot describe how much you hurt me.  I have done everything I could to not be this "power hungry tyrant" people seem to think I am.  I spend most of my freetime working for this site, and in the end you guys.  Hell even after I said I was gone I have secretly been working behind the scenes making sure things work.  And yet I don't get anything as much as a thank you.

I'm not going to defend the people who said bad things about you. However, I will take this opportunity to say that it was NOT everyone. I suggest you read what other people have said in that infamous topic, ignoring the trolls and drama. There were plenty of people that complimented you on the new layout, and plenty of people that said you're a great admin. I would give direct links, but obviously that's impossible now.

Your judgment was clouded by rage, and so was everyone else's. That is not an insult, and your anger was justified. However, I suggest you calm down, take some deep breaths, and read what everyone has to say (both in the old topic and this one) without letting your emotions take over.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Garlyle on April 13, 2010, 10:50:39 PM

So you probably don't care too much about the opinion of someone who makes like maybe six or seven posts a day and stuff, and isn't around the IRC, so maybe I miss a lot of things that go on... but.

MotK is chill.  It's one of the only places I know where something like Letty's Snowball Challenges are actually met by people laughing, kicking back, and enjoying popcorn.  Most places I've gone, half the community would revolt at the sight of one and storm out on the basis of "mod control" and shit.

I mean, I can't speak to you personally, and maybe this is a case of "it's all bubbling under the surface", but to me, at least, MotK is chill, casually, friendly, honestly, genuinely, ultimately, enjoyable.  Adverb adverb adverb, etc. etc. etc., I like it here and you've done a good job making it a place I can like.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: The Greatest Dog on April 14, 2010, 12:23:31 AM

Alright. I'll admit it. Before this entire ordeal occurred, I didn't even know that you, TSO, were the admin here, let alone even know who you were. I spent most of my time in HME! and very rarely ventured out into other parts of the forum...

But I had come on that day, reading "Pack up your bags!" or something to that line, and I had immediately congregated along with everyone else to read what you were doing. Unfortunately, I had only finished reading the first page of replies before you apparently pulled the plug for the day, so of course I wouldn't know what everyone else was thinking about the matter. I know that someone, though, had mentioned that it's just a joke, which I had the hope that it was... And there was also the fear that it wasn't.

I hadn't known who you were. The only people who I could recognize would maybe be Baity or Bananamatic. Of course I wasn't sure what to expect of you during the time, only then realizing that you could potentially be pissed off at everyone who's pissed off at you - all for events which I hadn't heard of. Then the site came back, I noticed the new shininess, and once again congregated to a new thread. I read the entire thing, for which 20 new posts were appearing at a time, but it was clear that some people really didn't go well over with. I was fine with it, since you were doing it all for us and I had other things to do for the majority of the time frame. I didn't quite understand why the certain few people were still being asses over a simple joke.

Anyways, I don't want you to leave, but at the same time I don't want you to persist doing something you don't have the desire to. Just keep in mind that the vast majority of the people here would have left already if we thought you were a tyrannical arse.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Wylfred on April 14, 2010, 12:37:52 AM

I could take my time to write up a wall of text but this line can sum up my feelings more then any text wall can.

Eggs today are better than chickens tomorrow.

That is all I have to say on the matter. (Yes it does have meaning.)

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on April 14, 2010, 12:47:53 AM

What Edible said, really.

Quote from: Edible on April 13, 2010, 05:50:02 PM

If I didn't want you to stick around, I would have stopped supporting you, and this site, a long time ago.

I don't think I would have been quite as excited to work for the sake of the community if I hadn't had your example to look up to, TSO. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions in the past... ah, two years? Since I finally decided to register in '08 on old MotK have shown that you're a keystone of our community here, that you really care for all of us. Anyone who can't see that is blind or lying. Whatever action you take, as long as you're happy, is totally fine with me.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Mima on April 14, 2010, 12:49:15 AM

TSO begs for attention once more. MotK laps it up.

Quote from: Yagami Hayate on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

Kanako, UK, and others I put on my "hate list" (except UD and Mima, go fuck yourselves)

8)

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: ?q on April 14, 2010, 12:51:13 AM

Preface.  I have no particular emotional attachment to you or this site.  Kanako only knows why I've halfghosted here for so long.
Further, being terribly misinformed is entirely within my character.  Any slights are not intentional.

First, regarding lingering resentment from April 1.  You thought you made it obvious that it was a joke.  I would like to point out three things offhand that didn't work about the joke.
*"You sold the domain for $1200".  People who actually have experience with webspace - you and bofh, for instance - know that's a ludicrous amount of money.  People who haven't - almost everyone else - don't.
*"The front page reverted to [some unpopular anime]".  My bookmark goes to the forum index.  Judging from how many people didn't see the front page at all, many people do as well.  Truthfully, if I'm on a forum I never visit the home page because everything I want to know/see is on the forum.
*"I included people I liked on the list of people I gave EFF YOUs to".  This is probably the most relevant problem - I didn't know that.  I've been lurking here on/off for two and a half years, and I can't offhand remember anything you've posted except topic locks, gender-identity arguments, and mentioning once that you didn't have enough hours in the day to be as much of an admin as you are.  I would not have been able to distinguish UK and Mima (both divisive figures when they want to be) in terms of their standing with you.  And of course mods/admins are not generally known for being friendly people due to the nature of their job and when they have to step in.  It's entirely possible that I haven't been looking in the right places (cut by Ruro:  entirely possible), but there you are. 

Second, regarding whether you should continue to be our admin.  Your efforts have made this forum remarkably better than it was when I joined (well before the purge).  We have more Lunatics, many many many many more fanworks, and a community of people who are far and away the most honest and likable kind I've seen on the Internet.  This is a community I want to be a part of, and I'm not the one who has put so much time and money into the site.  I would think that all apparent animosity aside, you would also want to be a member of a forum that is very much in its prime.
If you step down as head administrator, you'll likely leave it all behind and not come back to it as much as you once did.  For as much effort as you have put in, that seems like a waste.  In your position I would keep my stake in the site and simply take whatever amount of time is necessary to recuperate.

Third, something completely unrelated to listen to (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kq_MeevbNA).

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Wylfred on April 14, 2010, 01:02:13 AM

Quote from: Mima on April 14, 2010, 12:49:15 AM

TSO begs for attention once more. MotK laps it up.
 8)

You could have kept that to yourself Mima. No one wants to see the bloated ego. Better yet, that could have been a pm. Oh well, honest opinions are honest opinions. I salute your bravery but frown at your opinion.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Alice Fact on April 14, 2010, 01:05:04 AM

because you're TSO and I like hearing you

I went to #shrinemaiden because *goes to the website* and because *lol shmups buddies*; people like you and Nazrin and Suzie are really why I stay

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Moerin on April 14, 2010, 01:13:24 AM

Gah, all these wall of text posts make me wish I was actually good with words... All I can really say is that we all care about you and miss you (apart from a very small and insignificant minority, but to hell with them).  And really, MotK without TSO just seems... Wrong, somehow.  I can't quite put my finger on why exactly I think it, but I think you're pretty much the core of MotK.  I mean, look at all the people who've said so much about wanting you back already.  They can't all be crazy, can they?  We miss you... So please, come back, TSO.  It'd put a smile on so many people's faces to see you here once again, I'm sure of it~

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: nintendonut888 on April 14, 2010, 01:57:16 AM

Er...um.

I realize I'm one of those people who hurt you with their words. I decided to forgive and forget after I realized I'm not the only one who was hurt by the prank (though I still say permabanning me from IRC, even with the intent to undo it a few hours later is pretty cruel), but I can tell that it's not so easy here. Knowing me, going into detail about my feelings would only worsen the situation, so let me just say that I am a horrible judge of character.

Oh wait, right. You know that trial from November? The one where you personally called me out on everything wrong with me? That incident shook me in a way that was similar to how you must have felt from this one. I was depressed for about two months after that, and I wasn't sure if I'd recover. But, well, I did, and you forgave me for all my mistakes, and I feel I came a better person from it all. So, from this big bad incident, I hope you can accept my forgiveness of you too. This was a pretty big job you did on the site, and if I had known you were working so hard on it all along I wouldn't have said the things I did. So...sorry.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Firestorm29 on April 14, 2010, 01:59:54 AM

I'd like to try and post these large walls explaining why you should stay, but to be quite frank there's only one response I keep on coming back to...

Why should you stay as a Head Admin? Because you care, a lot.

[edit] Maybe I should have elaborated on this alittle more... What I meant about the above is, you seem to care alot about trying to make this place and it's community the best it can be. I feel that's a really good sign of an great admin, never really have many complaints towards the stuff you've done myself.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Ghaleon on April 14, 2010, 02:21:37 AM

Quote from: Mima on April 14, 2010, 12:49:15 AM

TSO begs for attention once more. MotK laps it up.
 8)

I won't pretend to know if your mutual disrespect is justified, but I want the people that dislike TSO to realize that this person probably ( I don't speak for the staff but this is common sense
IMO) was banned not because they dislike TSO, but because that post served absolutely no purpose other than to hurt and mock. There are no "balls" involved in making such a post IMO, try to keep criticism productive.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on April 14, 2010, 02:22:26 AM

People still aren't over the April Fools joke? Huh.

I don't know about head admin (I'd prefer a group of admins running a site over one major ruler), but imo it'd be nice if you'd at least return as some form of staff or something. Note that a lot of the negative things people said about you might not be what they actually think about you, when a big change like deletion of a site is about to happen, people tend to rage and become more irritable and hostile towards others (especially the person causing the deletion). But I probably can't make a good comment here though because I'm one of the 3 or so people who kind of enjoyed the prank, so herpaderp.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 14, 2010, 02:38:02 AM

What I would say to this thread...isn't for public viewing, for a variety of reasons. I can put it up in the staff forum, in private, or keep it to myself, as you desire.

Quote from: nintendonut888 on April 14, 2010, 01:57:16 AM

I realize I'm one of those people who hurt you with their words. I decided to forgive and forget after I realized I'm not the only one who was hurt by the prank (though I still say permabanning me from IRC, even with the intent to undo it a few hours later is pretty cruel), but I can tell that it's not so easy here. Knowing me, going into detail about my feelings would only worsen the situation, so let me just say that I am a horrible judge of character.

Oh wait, right. You know that trial from November? The one where you personally called me out on everything wrong with me? That incident shook me in a way that was similar to how you must have felt from this one. I was depressed for about two months after that, and I wasn't sure if I'd recover. But, well, I did, and you forgave me for all my mistakes, and I feel I came a better person from it all. So, from this big bad incident, I hope you can accept my forgiveness of you too. This was a pretty big job you did on the site, and if I had known you were working so hard on it all along I wouldn't have said the things I did. So...sorry.

In fairness to TSO, the first one was my idea, and the second one was a staff decision (and I made the topic). If you're going to blame any one individual for all that, blame me.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Spidere on April 14, 2010, 02:43:19 AM

I finally found this thread. I need to say to you, TSO.

If I were truly even more selfish than I already am, I would tell you that you should stay, start again. But I can't do this.

If those words said to you truly made you lose faith in this community, then so be it. I'll miss you. I know you will likely never happen upon here again, but, if you do, I want to say I've always respected you. And despite this decision, I still will.


Goodbye, Shining Olaris. I will truly miss you.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Gpop on April 14, 2010, 03:22:52 AM

Geh, I have to go to sleep soon and that's when I find this thread...

...no matter. TSO, like others say, if I hated you, if I didn't like what you did here, if I was against you, I wouldn't even be here anymore. I would probably go to some other site and start complaining on how bad this site is because of a single admin. Because that's how I usually am when I hate people.

But no. I respect you. I like you. The entire joke...I actually fell for it. That's why I called it shit really. I usually don't like falling for something that was actually blatantly obvious when you look back at it. But in return, we get this awesome upgrade that I approve 150%. Seriously, this is just awesome.

I'll admit that I am scared, but from me that's normal, because I'm usually scared of the higher-ups in general. I'm scared because I don't want to hurt you guys at all, because I respect all of you. I don't want to lose you guys. You're all cool. You've done a great deal just holding up this forum for the community. Look at how many people hang around here now.

For the IRC thing, I actually approve on moving it to PPIRC. I had no problems with it at all. It's really too bad that no one else thought of it that way. I just thought that it could probably bring more people into the channel and all, and merge it more with this community than to feel a little isolated from MotK.

I know I have more to say, but that's it for now. I have to go sleep now. Respects TSO. Don't leave us. I'll be disappointed if you did...

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Aisha on April 14, 2010, 06:11:26 AM

TSO, we have never spoken, so I'm not sure if my opinion holds much weight, if any at all. From the perspective of someone who has been visiting MotK since Katchura was running the place, I believe that you have been doing a great job. I have also seen this forum stagnate and approach death (by Chinese furniture, to be precise). I believe that the domain hijack was one of the best things to happen to MotK, because it allowed you to assume control, recover the forums, and grow the community. Looking at the forum now and comparing it to how it was back then, both to when it was near its death and to how it was during that era's prime, there is no way that I can conclude that you have failed as the head administrator.

So why do I want you to remain as the head administrator? I want you to remain as head administrator simply because your actions reflect, to me at least, that you genuinely care about this community. Despite all of the personal and external bumps along the way, you selflessly continue to dedicate time and energy into maintaining and improving this site for everyone, which means a lot. I find this to be admirable, really. I can think of no one more suited to be the head administrator than one who is willing to put the community before and at the expense of herself.

At the same time, saying that makes me feel selfish, because you don't deserve the pain. Frankly, I don't know how to remedy that. In the end, if you want to remain as head administrator, then I think you should, and given that you continued working behind the scenes after April 1st, and given that you went and made this thread, I get the impression that you still want to continue.

But regardless of what you decide, thanks for everything you've done.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: orinrin on April 14, 2010, 06:20:45 AM

I haven't been here very long, but I fully support any decision TSO makes.


You deserve praise, not hate.  :(

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Just a GBZero on April 14, 2010, 06:43:25 AM

TSO, I don't know if I should be posting this here, being rather quiet and not ever talking to you before, but here it goes.

Being quiet, I'm not quite sure on how to put this, but here I go.  I've been to many forums before, with most of them I left rather quickly.  The biggest reason was the community, or lack of one in their cases.  Sure they may have had one, but it was one that people like me couldn't get into.  Here though, its different.  The people here are willing to listen, and the admins not afraid to make a joke or two. I believe it takes a real commitment to get something like that, and its not something that should go away just from a few people raging about something or another.  With the whole April fools fiasco, I only thought that the site was down, not knowing why and assuming it would be back up soon, and still don't know about it much.  But what I did notice was people afterwards angry, the type you get after you panic about something you worry about.  Actually reminded me of kids hating their parents after they get punished for doing something.  Thats about it from what I picked up, and I kinda understand where your coming from, but personally, I believe that leaving here for that reason may be a bit rash.  I would think a break from being at the head of it would be a good idea, but in the end, I hope you would go back there.  Maybe try making an account without linking back to your own, and try seeing how it is from a different perspective.  But thats just what I think, and you're free to ignore it if you want.  Thanks for making this board what it is.

Sincerely,
GBZero

Edit: And I cant believe I forgot to say this originally, Happy Birthday TSO

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Krimmydoodle on April 14, 2010, 09:48:40 AM

I understand how you can feel about the thanklessness of the masses, and I'll admit, I too am guilty of never having thanked you or any other staff for all of the time that's poured into maintaining... no, guiding us, as one, into creating and maintaining this community.  Many of us honestly enjoy this community, and yes, we take it for granted and forget to offer our thanks for what you've given us.  Remember that this silent, but happy majority exists behind the vocally angry minority, and this is true not just here, but in all communities.  For every negative comment that is voiced, there's many positive comments that have simply been left unsaid, and it's for that silent majority that leaders willingly choose to lead.

Ultimately, the decision of where you go from here is yours and yours alone, but regardless of your decision, thank you for all of the work you've already put into this community.  And to everyone else, we all have to remember to thank the staff, as it's for our thanks, and the smile that puts on their faces, that they continue to do what they do.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: HolmCross on April 14, 2010, 09:55:59 AM

I don't know if the opinion of a forum lurker means much and I will admit, as an admin you feel unapproachable. Like gpop though, this is mostly my issue. I'm a grunt/peon by nature and people in a position of power are, to me, mostly cold and unknowable. Maybe I should try to get to know the staff here. It's the only real issue I have with MotK, sometimes it feels like there's a second level to the community that only the elite (lit. CPMC) have knowledge of. I'm often a bit slow on the uptake, I honestly didn't even know about #touhou-meido before the April fool's shitstorm and I wasn't even even aware of said shitstorm until the forums came back.

However, in answer to you question:

Quote from: Firestorm29 on April 14, 2010, 01:59:54 AM

Why should you stay as a Head Admin? Because you care, a lot.

I think this says it best. The fact this thread exists is proof of that. I imagine it must take some dedication and real love to keep this ragtag community together and you deserve more respect for keeping it together (this goes to the rest of the staff too  ;)). It kinda shames me I've never stated my appreciation for it before. It's up to you if you're going to stay as head admin, but as Berk would say  "there's no place like home" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7W8iK7MYOU)

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on April 14, 2010, 01:59:22 PM

Quote from: u? on April 14, 2010, 12:51:13 AM

*"The front page reverted to [some unpopular anime]".  My bookmark goes to the forum index.  Judging from how many people didn't see the front page at all, many people do as well.  Truthfully, if I'm on a forum I never visit the home page because everything I want to know/see is on the forum.

Not only that, but sometimes DNS changes propagate slowly, especially if you have a local cache that holds resolved DNS records for far too long - for instance, I never got the redirect.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: E-Nazrin on April 14, 2010, 04:49:33 PM

I'm starting to become unsure whether I should hold off on harshness until I get an explicit OK from TSOPACFeito...

I'm still not happy about the 4/1 mess, and especially how it was handled. I won't lie about that. Even if large parts of it probably fall under the general headings of "generalized suspicion of authority figures" and "holding an unnecessary grudge," the sentiment remains. There are many things I could complain about regarding how 4/1 was handled, and I really think a few of them I would find difficult to brand unreasonable offhand, but...

The rest of the posts here have provided the implicit chastising I needed to remember what the actual purpose of this thread is. It isn't really for complaining about or discussing the whole April Fool's Day mess - it's about advising our head admin/chief coder what to do in response after the fact. What's happened has happened, and there's not much that can really change that (-harsh, hostile cynicism omitted-) - the issue NOW is what to do about it: How to make the most of this and maybe make some appropriate improvements or adjustments based on what happened.

... my current conclusion about what might be best for Feito to do position-wise is... difficult to articulate without bringing up a harsh point or two, I think. But the basic summary is that I think there are some implications and sources of stress that come from being the head admin that may not be healthy to try and deal with on top of the issues from Feito's real-world circumstances and the subtle, difficult-to-recognize services and sacrifices that she makes to keep this board running as it is. So I think that moving away from that position, at least for a little while, might be a good idea.
How far 'down the chain' to go in addition to that I am less certain about. Feito has more than earned administrator access from what she's done for the forums, and I think such access is necessary to continue helping with the unsung task of fighting with forum code (I may be wrong?); but removing the coding set of stresses might not be bad either, and the forum will survive for at least a while without it being regularly worked on, barring any emergencies.

Ultimately, though, it's your choice. I didn't go far into my reasoning for fear of emotional issues from being harsh, so I'm not sure what that's worth, but I've said my piece for now.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Momiji on April 14, 2010, 05:13:15 PM

The AFD thing was less prank and more TSO's reaction to certain people (specifically Mima, Kaorin/^^flandre^^, etc.) spreading around gossip, manipulation, and FUD (along with massive long-standing forum maintenance).  It caused a lot of turmoil as the crap worked itself out of the system.  Also, it was targeted at specific people, so if you felt unfairly blamed or overall confused about it it probably had nothing to do with you.  Since the idiots who were targeted by it have been dealt with now, we can get back to our regularly scheduled Shrinemaiden program, after these messages. \o/

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 14, 2010, 10:29:09 PM

To be honest, I don't want you to leave TSO. I am honestly happy and thankful for what you have done. For every jerk who is being so rude to you and hates you and doesn't care about what you've done to help, their is a user who is actually thankful for what you have done for us and likes you and is willing to try and help. I'm one of the thankful ones, willing to help.

In the end, I'm just one person, I can't do much, but I can do this. Thank you TSO, for everything you've done, and sorry TSO, for the fact that someone was rude to you.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: HakureiSM on April 14, 2010, 11:22:28 PM

Kay, I'm slow. I missed this thread yesterday.

Anyways, I'm PMing you my opinion. I feel it's necessary, and also applies only to me. I hope.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Valentinya on April 15, 2010, 12:21:10 PM

Seriously? Some people are actually still mad about this? Well I don't hate you but I also don't like you either. My opinion of you is pretty much neutral as I don't know you at all. But I have to say

Quote from: ★ on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

When I offered to move #meido to PPIrC, I didn't do it because I wanted to control #meido.  No, I did it because I spent a long time building a stable IRC home for MotK and providing all the bells and whistles.  To be brushed off as "seizing power" hurt me immensely.

Well I only really became active shortly before that whole IRC mess started. But from what I saw you kind of took that thread too far after people expressed that they really didn't want it to be moved PPIrC. You were kind of "beating a dead horse" there. I mean even after people stated they were against it you kept on trying to push it. But I know that how people act during drama isn't a very good judge of a person's character at all. So I don't hold that against you.

Quote from: ★ on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

You set me on a pedestal all alone with your actions.  You act as if I am some scary untouchable person, someone who will smite you for looking at me funny.  You know how alone that makes me feel?  How isolated and detatched from the community I desperately want to be a part of?  Noone even says hi to me unless I start the conversation, noone talks to me unless there's something broke.  And to hear I make you "censor" yourselves when I am around, makes me feel awful.  What's the point of working for the community when you just get shunned and separated in the end? =/

I don't mean to make you feel bad but I also feel that way in regards to you. Although I also see Letty the same way. In fact I was so terrified of Letty when I first became active I was too scared to post outside of MMM. But like I told Kilga one day the reason I feel that way is probably just because I don't Letty at all. Same for you really. But since I got to know them I've become pretty good friends with Kilga and especially Ruro. I feel perfectly relaxed and comfortable talking around them. So I know that you guys are human and not some "scary untouchable person".

Honestly before I came to MoTK I always thought that all moderators and especially admins of any forum were either scary untouchable people or just couldn't be bothered to care. While I may not know you I have to say you certainly don't seem like either of those types of people. But like others already suggested, becoming a normal member temporarily just so people can get to know you a bit better without having to fear your position might be a better way to show others that you're not a "scary untouchable person".

Quote from: ★ on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

Is that what you really see me capable of doing?  You truely think I would ever do something like that?  For what I do here I should be making a lot of money, but I don't do it for that.  Nor do I do it for fame or ego or anything really beyond giving back.  Realize I'm a human being, and a member of this community just like you.  Ask yourselves these things next time before you fly off the handle and say things that are very hurtful =/

To be honest my opinion was pretty much that I saw you as more then likely of doing something like that. No offense to the rest of the staff or anything but I largely hold them responsible for fueling that view of you. I won't list off any names but a few of you went to the point of telling people that TSO had been talking about shutting it down for several months prior to that day on the staff forum. That coupled with what happened before with the IRC drama made it seem perfectly plausible to me.

However my mindset from the start of the whole thing was that it was obviously an April Fool's joke. I mean come on the part about the $1200 was more then enough to give it away! Although what REALLY got me most upset were my friends (certain staff members) who were so "upset" by the whole thing. That made me pretty sad at the time. Later on the next day when I found out it was all a joke and they were only acting I was very angry with them. Well they've already apologized and I forgive them.

Doesn't mean you're getting out of your punishments though. I'm still very much so looking forward to those now.  :D

Quote from: ★ on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

Tell me why should I remain (or not remain) your head admin.  Here's your chance to really tell me if you want me to stay or go.  If you don't want to openly voice your opinion, then feel free to PM it to me.  But do not just cower in a corner and whisper behind my back because it is pointless and insulting.

I really can't really tell you what you should do. But while I may not know you I would still find it sad for you to go. A lot of others have also already expressed their strong desire for you to stay so I think that says right there what the majority of people think about you. As for the minority I don't even know who they are nor have I heard what nasty things they say about you. As for me I've always respected you. I've always referred to you as a "she" too. People may be entitled to their opinions but that doesn't give them the right to be downright rude and disrespectful.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Sen on April 16, 2010, 12:57:32 AM

Quote from: ★ on April 13, 2010, 06:36:00 AM

Kanako, UK, and others I put on my "hate list" (except UD and Mima, go fuck yourselves), I was just joking.

See, it's statements like that that make you seem unapproachable.

Even if you're joking, if someone doesn't know you well, how are they going to know? I know I didn't like you at first; I never heard any comments or rumours about you or anything (since I don't go on IRC), but I still thought you were a completely and unnecessarily rude person. Especially as an admin of the site, you just didn't come off very well. By now, now that I've had a few months to settle in and know people better, I know you're just joking, but I think you're either too convincing or you take it too far. And when you're not joking and you actually do hate someone, you just look petty and little for going down to things like flaming, especially since you're the admin of the site.

Still, that's just the outward appearance. Internally, I think you're a great admin and should stay. Behind the scenes, you do so much for the site, devoting all your freetime to MotK, in spite of the stressful life you lead. Through all the things people say about you, you really do care for the site, and it's obvious based on how far it's come, and the size of the community you've built. This is, by far, my favorite Western Touhou community (far better than DStyle, although I do think the excessive DStyle trolling on this site goes a bit too far at times...). I think you should stay, but I also think it's really a matter of "do you want to be the admin?"


(PS I would like to say right here that I think the shit that you're getting for the April Fools joke is ridiculous. I just assumed the site was having problems, and when it came back up with a shiny new layout, hooray! I have no idea why people got so upset about it, the forum was down for one day)

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: sammy t coleridge on April 16, 2010, 02:37:47 AM

But .... the MotK Star League!

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Alice Fact on April 17, 2010, 10:16:47 AM

Quote from: SenSageUn on April 16, 2010, 12:57:32 AM

(I have no idea why people got so upset about it, the forum was down for one day)

This is the whole point. This is why TSO freaked out in the first place.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: JT on April 18, 2010, 08:43:34 PM

Quote from: SenSageUn on April 16, 2010, 12:57:32 AM

(PS I would like to say right here that I think the shit that you're getting for the April Fools joke is ridiculous. I just assumed the site was having problems, and when it came back up with a shiny new layout, hooray! I have no idea why people got so upset about it, the forum was down for one day)

From what I understand, staff members told people the site was going down forever, not just for one day. Not that that explains the MONSTER FAGPARADE that became of it.

This whole thing is just massively, monstrously, unstoppably gay, and I don't understand how people (TSO included) could possibly care so much about something so trivial and stupid. Why the serious faces? Aren't we all here to have fun? Stop letting stupid shit that doesn't matter get to you.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 18, 2010, 09:01:11 PM

Because at the time, TSO said "I hate you all, I'm going to shut this place down and not give you any real chance to back up" and people assumed that this was meant sincerely instead of as part of the April Fools joke.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Matsuri on April 18, 2010, 09:05:21 PM

The day and over-the-top-ness of it all should have been a massive giveaway.

I do recall saying 'There's no way they'll fall for this, right?'

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Suikama on April 18, 2010, 09:09:18 PM

Quote from: Matsuri♡Sakuragi on April 18, 2010, 09:05:21 PM

I do recall saying 'There's no way they'll fall for this, right?'

:derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp: :derp:

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 19, 2010, 02:42:52 AM

Yeah. But now we're just starting to re-hash an argument in a thread which got locked for a reason.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: E-Nazrin on April 19, 2010, 03:03:47 AM

Ohhh... how I want to be harsh here.

But I guess I'll leave it at "The prank's problem wasn't in its concept, but the social atmosphere it was done in and the treatment that responses were then given."

I'm talking more frankly with TSO about this over PM right now. I'll probably want to talk more later, somewhere, but.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: HakureiSM on April 19, 2010, 03:20:19 AM

I wonder if TSO got my PM.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: JT on April 19, 2010, 04:04:47 AM

Quote from: KimikoMuffin on April 18, 2010, 09:01:11 PM

Because at the time, TSO said "I hate you all, I'm going to shut this place down and not give you any real chance to back up" and people assumed that this was meant sincerely instead of as part of the April Fools joke.

Yeah, I kind of figured that. Still don't get why everybody's got their asscheeks all puckered over it. Oh no, some people said mean things on the internet! Sound the Serious Business alarm! Let's all have seizures and write up giant 1000-word reams of text!

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Kerigis on April 19, 2010, 05:56:20 AM

*cracks knuckles*

I'm not a man of words, personally because of a very nice motto that my great-grandmother left me.
"Si del mundo quieres gozar; ver, oir y callar." (If you want to enjoy the world; look, listen, and don't speak)
I guess this is what left me along with everyone. I don't take sides because I want people to like me and have the less possible risks. I don't like to speak bad of someone "close" to me, and if I do, I try to be the less detrimental as possible, even joking. Any possible REAL grudges are inside me and talk to myself about it.

I guess you can call it some sort of L?esprit de l?escalier or Treppenwitz on me.

But in situations like these, sometimes, sadly, I have to break my motto. It's just too painful to have friends who don't get along with each other.

What I have to say, on regards of April Fools Joke, it was pretty distasteful joke to me. That I won't deny. I fell for it really hard, the turmoil started, and I was about -this- close to announce my local/other Touhou communities (non-english) about the death of MotK. However, I cannot deny as well that the people were on the wrong mood at such time. (Really, people. Your constant posts on the "Frustration Vent" here worry me a lot. I mean, come on, someone could make two topics of Happiness and Anger at the same time and guess which one rises quickly. On those days particularly, I heard people were not taking it easy and were about to go trigger-happy. I don't say that all the life should be shits and giggles, but man... take it easy). Also, I have to say that "I Hate you X" jokes are pretty touchy and difficult to do. I've seen one or two performed well, but with a community with this ammount of personnel that even haven't seen each other IRL or speaking to them to hear their voices (Yes I consider those as a major factor), it's bound to be doomed.

Thankfully, it was well... a joke. But it was a lose-lose scenario. And the fallout didn't turn out well. The panic button should have been hit and stopped early on.

Sidenote: Another joke could've been better. I have one or two ideas. Ufufu~

Regarding, TSO.

I had the nice opportunity to talk to you when you were on #meido. I remember asking help for the computer setup I was getting in and your technological expertise came in handy. I don't think we spoke a lot about anything else anymore, but it was nice to see that I was getting friendly with someone. I was a little sad, thinking that you thought #meido could be a separatist group from MotK, but that aside, I can say this:

You put effort on this. Now and then. That's enough reason to keep my opinion about you very high. I've seen admins driving things not so good or even disappearing from sight. I wish we could talk about more things and get to gnaw know each other more, just like any other person I chatted with on IRC. I may have not been observing MotK from the beginnings but I can say it stood up the test of time.

The detractors, well, there will always be, for troll, weak, stupid or real reasons, but the important thing is to keep the people who agree closer to you.

Resuming, I'd like for you to stay, however, what makes you happier is what should be prioritized.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Slaves on April 19, 2010, 12:47:16 PM

Quote from: Matsuri♡Sakuragi on April 18, 2010, 09:05:21 PM

The day and over-the-top-ness of it all should have been a massive giveaway.

your ourburst was a dead giveaway, to say the least.

the only thing i could see you getting so upset over is if someone doesn't thumbnail an image.  :3

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Matsuri on April 19, 2010, 01:07:00 PM

Quote from: KimikoMuffin on April 19, 2010, 02:42:52 AM

Yeah. But now we're just starting to re-hash an argument in a thread which got locked for a reason.

It got locked because at that point, everyone was saying 'That was a bad joke', 'lol, i got pranked', or 'i fucking knew it'. Oh, and your incessant 'I am upset because the mods should apologize instead of telling us to fuck off'. News flash, many of us (including myself) did apologize-- multiple times, even.

Quote from: Slaves★★★★★★ on April 19, 2010, 12:47:16 PM

your ourburst was a dead giveaway, to say the least.

the only thing i could see you getting so upset over is if someone doesn't thumbnail an image.  :3

Exactly. I'm not prone to explode like I did. To be honest, I thought it looked too contrived. ^^;

And yeah, it killed me to have to see those huge images. I remember going to edit the posts saying 'are they serious', and then remembering I was banned and couldn't.  :derp:

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on April 19, 2010, 01:52:57 PM

Quote from: Matsuri♡Sakuragi on April 19, 2010, 01:07:00 PM

Exactly. I'm not prone to explode like I did. To be honest, I thought it looked too contrived. ^^;

Since the point of 'it was obvious' comes up so often, I guess the fact that this board is highly multi-national worked against the original idea.

I can't speak for others, but due to timezones I was fast asleep when this infamous thread that started the joke began, and I assume lots of other Europeans were as well.
Because of that, when I woke up the site was already down, and since my link doesn't go to the frontpage, I didn't see the redirection either.
Now at that point I was thinking of an update, since it had been announced a few times I think. Up to that, everything was alright, and for people for whom it went like that, all the chaos aferwards is obviously non-sensical.
The real thing then started when I went onto IRC and made the mistake of asking about the site being down. Because from that moment onward I only could get different second-hand opinions, mostly from people who believed it wasn't a joke, plus the added acting from some of the staff.

In short, not having been able to see all the stuff that was done to make the joke obvious at all, and consequently lacking any first-hand-information, might be part of the problem for some people.
So, lesson for the future: Keep the obvious signs up longer, so that everyone will see them  :D

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 19, 2010, 05:13:44 PM

Quote from: Matsuri♡Sakuragi on April 19, 2010, 01:07:00 PM

News flash, many of us (including myself) did apologize-- multiple times, even.

Sorry -- I tend to be inept at conveying things in that kind of atmosphere, and I was directing it at the mods who were swearing at people instead. You were cool.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Matsuri on April 19, 2010, 05:16:41 PM

It's fine. I do think that if there was less yelling on both ends, many more apologies would be shared. Noise is a bitch.

However, that didn't happen. It is what it is, so it's best that we all just let it go. Lesson learned on both ends, eh?

Quote

In short, not having been able to see all the stuff that was done to make the joke obvious at all, and consequently lacking any first-hand-information, might be part of the problem for some people.
So, lesson for the future: Keep the obvious signs up longer, so that everyone will see them  :D

You've got a point.I think we probably would have dragged the ragequit piece out a bit longer, but things got a bit too chaotic, what with Kuma posting porn, and Pseudolus+everyone else posting that one really creepy pic, and others posting 5-figure pixel images.

I do have to say though, the fakebans were hilarious on my end, even my own. xD

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on April 19, 2010, 06:10:12 PM

Precisely!

Anyway ... I haven't had anything to say on the subject of the thread, so now it's my turn.

If I had to guess, TSO, I'd say you're emotionally sensitive, and you have a tendency to overreact. I base this on the fact that I'm exactly the same way, and I can see all the signs. This, of course, can make idiots act idiotic, but if there was anything that could make idiots stop acting idiotic, you can bet that someone would have figured it out by now and it'd be widely used.

But this does not make you a bad admin, for the sole reason that I've never seen you take admin action based on these overreactions. (I don't know which specific mod banned Mima, but frankly, if you're going to make a post whose sole purpose is to openly badmouth the owner of the site on which you are making this post, in a thread in which the owner is expressing extreme emotional stress and is seeking some kind of comfort, you deserve whatever the mods give you.)

I run a roleplay MUD. I am very lucky that it has become fairly popular. I am also very lucky that the other staff and many of the users are direct friends of mine, and the setup enables me to keep my outbursts mostly private, and when I seem like I'm about to do something in anger, I'm surrounded by people willing to talk me down. I'm also lucky that upgrading tends not to take much work. (And that the problem-people have been relatively few and far between. I suppose it helps that the staff personally have to approve every individual account ...)

But my point with that is, I understand. If you need a break, take a break. If you think the stress is too much, I can stand by that too. But you've been a good admin, even if people didn't always think you looked like it.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Ghaleon on April 19, 2010, 08:30:32 PM

Quote from: JT on April 19, 2010, 04:04:47 AM

Oh no, some people said mean things on the internet! Sound the Serious Business alarm! Let's all have seizures and write up giant 1000-word reams of text!

I really hate it when people say things like this. It's just so disrespectful IMO. Some people here are friends with each other, or thought they were. Not to mention alot of time is comitted to some of the projects here. While I wasn't upset at the event directly I was upset that some important people here may have left from the ordeal, like losing a friend.

Personally I think people are hipocrites when they automatically pull the "hurr hurr Internet is srs bizniz" card and think they are more justified by being upset with someone else outside the Internet that they spend 1/4 the time with. Automatically catagorizing everyone as a baby just makes you look like an ass IMO. TSO asked all a question, based on a scism during April 1st, people are just trying to discuss it. And the people with stronger opinions (e-mouse for example) don't need people saying they are twits for feeling the way they do without actually going into it on a personal level.

Personally I'm upset that some people feel the need to take it in pms (not saying it's your fault neccesarily) because I too care how everyone feels, even though the feeling probably isn't mutual.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: E-Nazrin on April 20, 2010, 12:28:55 AM

Quote from: Matsuri♡Sakuragi on April 19, 2010, 01:07:00 PM

Oh, and your incessant 'I am upset because the mods should apologize instead of telling us to fuck off'. News flash, many of us (including myself) did apologize-- multiple times, even.

I did not see that apology, since I was avoiding the forums out of despair at the time. It is, as far as I can see, no longer publicly visible. So I did not know this, and... well, -harshness omitted-

Quote from: Ghaleon on April 19, 2010, 08:30:32 PM

I really hate it when people say things like this. It's just so disrespectful IMO. Some people here are friends with each other, or thought they were. Not to mention alot of time is comitted to some of the projects here. While I wasn't upset at the event directly I was upset that some important people here may have left from the ordeal, like losing a friend.

Personally I think people are hipocrites when they automatically pull the "hurr hurr Internet is srs bizniz" card and think they are more justified by being upset with someone else outside the Internet that they spend 1/4 the time with. Automatically catagorizing everyone as a baby just makes you look like an ass IMO. TSO asked all a question, based on a scism during April 1st, people are just trying to discuss it. And the people with stronger opinions (e-mouse for example) don't need people saying they are twits for feeling the way they do without actually going into it on a personal level.

Personally I'm upset that some people feel the need to take it in pms (not saying it's your fault neccesarily) because I too care how everyone feels, even though the feeling probably isn't mutual.

Thank you.

I am mostly focusing on PMs and highly restricting myself here for fear of things picking up in a bad way, even if I think I'm capable of keeping my outbursts reasonable, both in reason and wording. Since odds are good I'm wrong, considering how it's an opinion about myself, well... I'm trying to hold back to make sure that this conversation remains civil. Or at least, improve the odds.

And yes, (perceived) lack of respect is a major issue in all of this.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: JT on April 20, 2010, 01:27:30 AM

Quote from: Ghaleon on April 19, 2010, 08:30:32 PM

words

Nope, still think this is stupid. It could have happened on or off the internet, between friends or non-friends, on a boat or on a goat, I'd feel exactly the same about it. Nothing personal. I'm just joking around, not trying to disrespect or insult.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: E-Nazrin on April 20, 2010, 02:46:40 AM

Quote from: JT on April 20, 2010, 01:27:30 AM

I'm just joking around, not trying to disrespect or insult.

Sometimes, the act of treating something sensitive as a joke is disrespectful and insulting in itself. I do not believe this is the time, nor the place, for such behavior.

If you are not interested in the matter, then you are free to leave it alone. But provoking emotions further will not help the issue. -Hostility omitted-

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Nobu on April 20, 2010, 03:02:08 AM

Let's keep things civil and stay on topic, guys. The fact of the matter is, some people took this seriously and real emotions were affected by the whole incident, whether or not you get why.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: JT on April 20, 2010, 03:05:55 AM

Quote from: Nobu~♪ on April 20, 2010, 03:02:08 AM

Let's keep things civil and stay on topic, guys. The fact of the matter is, some people took this seriously and real emotions were affected by the whole incident, whether or not you get why.

shrug

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2010, 03:10:34 AM

Quote from: KitsunΣ-mouse on April 20, 2010, 12:28:55 AM

-harshness omitted-

Quote from: KitsunΣ-mouse on April 20, 2010, 02:46:40 AM

-Hostility omitted-

Isn't this the same as saying "pointed out hostility"? Why even write that you omitted it in the first place?

Going on 3 weeks after the fact, I'm starting to get the feeling that dwelling on this is getting in the way of letting it go. But maybe not.

Just relax either way.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: E-Nazrin on April 20, 2010, 03:16:32 AM

Quote from: ☯Tengukami☯ on April 20, 2010, 03:10:34 AM

Isn't this the same as saying "pointed out hostility"? Why even write that you omitted it in the first place?

To show that I am still upset and that there is more that I would like to say, but realize probably wouldn't be wise to say, without necessarily seeking out an emotional response from it or request to explain. An expression of tone, so to speak. But you have a point in that I'm not sure what the best way to go about expressing that is.

Quote

Going on 3 weeks after the fact, I'm starting to get the feeling that dwelling on this is getting in the way of letting it go. But maybe not.

Just relax either way.

There are implications that remain that I would like to see addressed, or at least see if they were addressed.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: HakureiSM on April 20, 2010, 04:16:47 AM

Well it seems TSO never got my PM, as I didn't get a reply.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 20, 2010, 04:22:14 AM

Check your Outbox to make sure you sent it. If it's there, TSO got it.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: helvetica on April 20, 2010, 04:46:26 AM

Quote from: HakureiSM on April 20, 2010, 04:16:47 AM

Well it seems TSO never got my PM, as I didn't get a reply.

I got all PMs, I'm not ignoring you.  I just don't know what to say =|

Please, to anyone who PMed me, I don't mean any offense by not responding.  I just am at a loss for words.  To be honest I'm just trying to just listen to everyone's comments, and keeping my big mouth shut and let others speak their mind.  I know I come off as argumentative a lot, but it's not because I want to tear you down.  I learn someone else's stance and reasonings best by explaining my point of view and challenging others to defend theirs.  But I know it comes off as offensive to some people so I'm just listening quietly this time around.

Title: Re: Tell Me Why I Should Remain Your Head Admin
Post by: HakureiSM on April 20, 2010, 01:27:32 PM

Oh good, good.
I just had to know if you read it. If you did then great.