Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: J.O.B on April 10, 2010, 07:57:28 AM

Title: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: J.O.B on April 10, 2010, 07:57:28 AM
I am surprised there isn't something like this here already.

Anyway, this thread is for talking about stuff you hate/like about touhou.

I really hate it when you get an itch and your concentrating on dodging bullets and then you quickly go to scratch it and then you die.

But I really like the music though.

I also hate curvy lazors.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: 8lue Wizard on April 10, 2010, 09:02:35 AM
I like the varied cast of characters.
I hate all stage 2 bosses not named Chen.
I like bashing my head against a challenge repeatedly until I finally incur brain damage prevail.
I hate StB/DS.
I like wading through slow, dense masses of bullets.
I hate fast bullets that make me use my walrusy reflexes.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Solais on April 10, 2010, 09:49:29 AM
I like every aspect of Touhou, but the games should be a little longer.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Treasurance on April 10, 2010, 11:06:45 AM
Music, characters...most games, especially the photography games (yes I am crazy)... Pretty much everything in the series EXCEPT SoEW (too much BS, and where's my deathbomb) and Phantasmagorias (cheater AI). Also, Yukkuris are a bit too scary.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 10, 2010, 11:07:35 AM
what I hate:
1) bad controls
2) boring stages with inconsistent difficulty
3) EoSD's hitboxes
4) seriously uneven shottypes
5) MoF and SA's bomb system, UFO's power system
6) pixel streaming

what I like about touhou:
1) It's still a shmup
2) It isn't X-Multiply
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Reddyne on April 10, 2010, 11:29:10 AM
Oh, I'll keep it simple. Things I like:
1. The characters
2. The ridiculous, hyperactive fanbase.
3. The music.
4. Easy to pick up and play.
5. It's such a dramatic escape from my normal diet of RPG's and generic action games.

Things that tick me off:
1. My lack of skill.
2. Certain degree of repetitiveness between the games
3. StB and DS can bite my ass.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Gandalph on April 10, 2010, 02:28:15 PM
Like:
-Music
-Huge cast of varied and somewhat silly characters
-Fanbase is very active and mostly friendly

Dislike:
-Shmups aren't my thing. I find the actual gameplay frustrating and boring.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 10, 2010, 02:31:38 PM
The shorter list would be things I don't like. And that would be the fighting games. Namely because I don't like the genre. For all I know, IaMP, SWR and UNL might be awesome games for their genre.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Formless God on April 10, 2010, 02:36:52 PM
The shorter list would be things I don't like. And that would be the fighting games. Namely because I don't like the genre. For all I know, IaMP, SWR and UNL might be awesome games for their genre.
This.

Things I don't like ? Haven't thought of a list yet, meanwhile these are the two that pissed me off the most.
Anyone who goes here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQZuidKexBQ) screaming "LOL THIS GAME IS IISI GO PLAY IMPIRISHABLE NIGHTS EXTRA NOOBS"
Those who can't pronounce refuse to pronounce "Touhou" correctly for fuck's sake.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Silent Harmony on April 10, 2010, 03:27:32 PM
God I hope this thread doesn't dissolve into a stupid flame war.

LIKE:
-The music
-The characters
-The fanbase's creativity with both
-The gameplay (like another said it's different from what I usually play)
-The quick nature of the game (stage practice; full game about 30-40 minutes)

DISLIKE:
-The fanbase's immaturity
-The massive amount of porn fanart [don't dislike porn out of principal, it's just annoying to look for pictures for certain characters (i.e. Komachi) and find nothing but boobs everywhere]
-The inconsistent difficulty
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Chainsaw Guitar on April 10, 2010, 03:34:13 PM
+ The greatest gallery of fan art I've ever seen. (Just so long as you search Danbooru with -rating:_s blacklisted)
+ Easy to pick up and play, but incredibly hard to master.
+ Fan games are interesting and fun to play as well.

- Gimmicks. Just about every game ZUN has ever made has them.
- The best Touhou game in the series is almost completely ignored due to people not willing to punch in any time into training.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Formless God on April 10, 2010, 03:36:45 PM
- The best Touhou game in the series is almost completely ignored due to people not willing to punch in any time into training.
Undefined Fantastica :*
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 10, 2010, 03:42:15 PM
DISLIKE:
-The fanbase's immaturity
-The massive amount of porn fanart [don't dislike porn out of principal, it's just annoying to look for pictures for certain characters (i.e. Komachi) and find nothing but boobs everywhere]

This brings up a point I was thinking of earlier. Would fan-related matters fall under things we like/dislike about Touhou? It's not as thoough ZUN started some of the stupider memes about the Gensokyans.

In the area of fandom, there are few memes that really bug me. What I do dislike is fan elitism.

The Double Spoiler thread was a great example of this. Here we had a bunch of people all excited for the release of the game, chatting, speculating, having a good time, and one or two guys dropped in to basically shit in the thread and talk about how much they hated StB and don't care about the sequel.

Another example of this would be something that came up in IRC the other day, where a discussion of EoSD was taking place. Someone basically got on their elitist high horse and started calling anyone using the hitbox patch a "kindergartener" who is "ruining the integrity of the game".

I mean please. Games are supposed to be FUN. What games others find enjoyable - or what they do to make the games more enjoyable for them - is of no concern to anyone. The kind of sneering elitism that some fans show blows my mind. Just chill already. 狂えよ其は幻想郷!
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Gpop on April 10, 2010, 03:44:54 PM
What I like:
1) Koishi
2) The cast
3) The fun yet challenging game.
4) Awesome music from every game but EoSD
5) Beautiful patterns
6) Really fun fighting games

What I hate:
1) EoSD
2) Eirin
3) SDM crew (well only Sakuya and Remi really)
4) Clip-deaths
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Azinth on April 10, 2010, 04:06:52 PM
Like:
-The gameplay (for the most part)
-The music
-Pretty fanart
-A few of the characters

Indifferent towards:
-Doujins
-Most of the characters

Hate:
-Just about everything else. >_>
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Formless God on April 10, 2010, 04:16:10 PM
^ It's pretty much the same for me too >_>
God, how the fanbase irritated me ...
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: ふねん1 on April 10, 2010, 04:34:47 PM
Things I like:
- Characters
- Awesome music
- Difficulty, provided it's not for the wrong reasons (ex. VoWG is a great dodging test)
- The fact that there's so much fanwork devoted to it (whether or not I care about a particular piece is another story)

Things I hate:
- Attacks that are hard for the wrong reasons (i.e. general programming/attack design errors, extreme randomness, etc.)
- The immaturity of some of the fanbase
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 10, 2010, 04:41:13 PM
these "touhou games are well known for being ridiculously difficult" people. that's why I hate the goddamn fanbase.

2D games always required some practice to clear. Mario, Gradius, Battletoads, whatever. Today's games aren't hard at all, and when something which goes back to the old days appears, it's immediately called "extremely hard".

And then one game makes it to the mainstream and everyone shits bricks everywhere. THIS GAME IS NOTHING, PLAY TOUHOU IT'S MUCH HARDER

I want to tie these people to a chair and force them to play Gunbird 2 for 10 hours straight.

And the overprotective fans. Look at the CNN video.
"I didn't know Idiots existed as far as within CNN. Please Fire Them, For the sake of Touhou and ART!!!"

"honestly 'm glad that CNN didn't get the whole thing because then everyone and there mother would be checking out touhou and then touhou would be the next naruto"

unfortunately, that's most of the comments

tl;dr: MY GAME IS EXTREMELY HARD AND EXTREMELY OBSCURE WHICH MAKES ME THE BEST PERSON EVER
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Chaotic Phoenixma on April 10, 2010, 05:10:34 PM
Like:

Music
Difficulty(most of the time)
Gameplay
Characters

Dislike:

fanbase
Difficulty(some of the time)
most fangames
All the gimmicks


As for examples of difficulty that I like:(PC98 not included in any of these, but there's plenty of them for each of them)

Virtue of Wind God(when it's not throwing solid walls), Kappa's Pororoca/Illusionary Waterfall, Illusionary Dominance(MoF and DS), Agni Shine High Level, Rage Trilithon High Level, Water Elf, Mercury Poison, Scarlet Gensokyo(Hard), Everything from Kaguya on IN, Orin in general, Most of UFO on Normal and Extra, Murasa last normal spellcard, Grudge Bow, QED, Descent of Izuna Gongen, Boundary of Life and Death, Mishaguji-sama(although this one is easy)

Examples on difficulty I don't mind too much either way: Patchouli books(these seem fairer each time I go against them, but I still can't capture them. The BS is in clipdeath, not actual reading). Demon of Purification(I'm just terrible at these ones though, but they're still fair), Illusion Dream Vine, Colorful Chaos Dance

Examples of Difficulty I hate: Peerless Wind God, Sylphae Horn High Level, Agni Radiance, Scarlet Meister, Remilia Opener, Eternal Meek, Young Demon Lord, Scarlet Gensokyo(Lunatic), Princess Undine/Bury in Lake, Killing Doll, Ichirin on Hard/Lunatic, Shou first nonspell, Shou third nonspell, Byakuren on higher difficulties, VoWG(when throwing solid walls), Almost everything in PCB, Eirin on IN, Marisa's nonspells in IN,  Kogasa(Hard/Lunatic), UFO Hard/Lunatic in general, Yamame's opener, Heart danmaku, Stuff that's impossible unless you memorize it, StB/DS puzzle gimmick cards that are impossible to clear with pure dodging, Vampire Illusion, Momizi, PostMomizi BS Walls, Kanako opener, Stage 5 midboss Orin.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Drake on April 10, 2010, 05:30:24 PM
Chentlemen, I like Touhou. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INotAKQV2tk)
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Silent Harmony on April 10, 2010, 06:13:16 PM
Ah yes, a few actual Zun-based Touhou things. Sorry.

LIKE
- Stage 2 boss characters (for some reason I tend to like them  *shrug*)
- Item-based lives (Point and fragment)
- Short stages
- Somewhat forgiving gameplay
         - Death Bombs

HATE
- Stage 3 boss fights (for some reason I tend to suck at them)
- Score-based lives (suck at spellcards? LOL good luck)
- Long stages (PCB S4 oh god)
- Gimmicky shot-types (holds SA back from true greatness IMO)
- Inconsistent difficulty (needs to be said again!)
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Grand Octopus on April 10, 2010, 06:31:11 PM
The Good

- Games
- Characters on balance
- Music (GSTs + remixes)
- Fanwork on balance

The Bad

- Unpolished aspects of games (e.g. misplaced difficulty, bugs, lack of options)
- 98.45% of memes
- Majority of fanbase needs to have their breathing permits revoked

The Ugly

- Any character drawn too young or with unwarranted cat ears
- Sanae
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 10, 2010, 06:38:23 PM
- 98.45% of memes
Forgot this. Except that it's 100%. And 90% of them are less meme than Milhouse.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 10, 2010, 07:38:33 PM
The list of likes could go on for some time, but I'll try to keep it simple.

Likes:
Music,
cast,
lack of seriousness,
pretty kaleidoscope-like bullet patterns,
fanbase (I'll get to that in a minute),
promotion of fanon,
the fact that most are shmups (dying genre),
high difficulty combined with generous extends

Dislike:
Fighting games (I dislike the entire genre, and haven't given Touhou's a try, so put my opinion with tengu here),
fanbase,
shot-type imbalance (ban has a good point here). I mean some of them are seriously garbage,
UFO ufos,
MoF/SA Bomb-system,
stages are rather boring compared to bosses...We need more enemy variety plox.

summary:
The fans are obviously a mixed bag. I think it does them great injustice to say you dislike them because of all the immaturity found on certain areas or sites. I think people need to think just how much touhou they enjoy that is fanmade. All those music remixes, the english patches, the fan-games, even the community websites like this place and the fan-maintained replay archives.

The fact that Touhou is more fanon than canon is IMO what really makes it shine, not that the canon is bad by any means. But I like to think of it like with what happened between IBM and Macintosh in the early days. IBM allowed people to make their own systems and sell them, Macintosh didn't. In the end, the PC market dominated the mac market because of that decision (many other reasons were heavily influenced by that decision, such as the price difference)

As for difficulty rants. I really like Touhou's difficulty, it is IMO one of the best-made games in that area. I've played other shmups that are regarded as harder. And the thing is when you get down to sheer dodging difficulty, Touhou is *NOT* easier. It's just easier to think of it as easier because of the generous lifecount/extend and deathbomb mechanic. Voluntarily end your game after 4-5 deaths on lunatic (and suicide after a deathbomb) in Touhou if you want it to be the same difficulty as a cave shooter if you like. Of course it doesn't have a TLB, but I think there is only 1... maybe 2 (shadowbringer the only one I think) who can actually legitimately reach a TLB in most cave games. So I don't see why that should really matter to us >=)

It's like IWBTG. People know it's a hard game, but if you counted the generous saves and unlimited lifecounts, it'd be even easier than normal-mode Touhou in that regard. Life counts and whatnot don't really count towards how hard a game FEELS IMO.

/rant off.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 10, 2010, 08:00:56 PM
uhh...what exactly is "legitimately reach a TLB"? 1ccing both loops or just looping the game once, then creditfeeding to the TLB?

Another thing - Touhou is too slow with too dense patterns, which forces micromemorization and makes you go asleep.

ZUN could learn a thing or two from the team which made Blue Wish Resurrection.
But he probably wants to make different shmups.

And the importance of score - the scoring mechanics are usually way too hardcore - unless you play for score, your score will suck. You have to sacrifice lives in UFO to score high, switch between youkai and human in IN, bombgraze in SA - nothing which is normal in survival play.
Just as POCing. It's a bad scoring mechanic.

In the later touhous, score does nothing - no extends, nothing. No point in caring about score. Hell, you could take it out and nothing would change.

In an arcade shmup, the extends are set much higher, which makes the person want to score well so he can get further and high scores are achievable through perfectly normal play - pick up the items which drop and don't let any escape, chain the enemies, use that item to get this other item, eat bullets, etc.

Just getting further usually improves your personal record. Touhou requires completely changing your playing style. Scoring is 50% of shmup fun.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Naut on April 10, 2010, 08:15:13 PM
Likes:
Games, music, characters

Hates:
Bananamatic's trolling
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Formless God on April 10, 2010, 08:15:44 PM
Scoring is 50% of shmup fun.
Maybe it's because I started with Touhou and never cared about score in any games), but dodging is 100% fun (sure, cool if I get a nice score at the end, but I've never actively played for it). BoWaP, VoWG, Scarlet Gensokyo, Total Purification, Vajra (one of the few fast-paced spell cards out there, cannot really complain), Superhuman, Grudge Bow, Larsa, Hibachi, all sort of awesome :*

Another thing - Touhou is too slow with too dense patterns, which forces micromemorization and makes you go asleep.
Mushihime :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 10, 2010, 08:26:54 PM
Hates:
Bananamatic's trolling
You need to give it more time, I also didn't like it at first.

Mushihime :V
Streaming is fun if it isn't pixel perfect and if there is re-streaming involved.

Touhou :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 10, 2010, 08:27:28 PM
Another thing - Touhou is too slow with too dense patterns, which forces micromemorization and makes you go asleep.

You really enjoy beating this tired, tired drum.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Formless God on April 10, 2010, 08:39:45 PM
Streaming all the time isn't fun either.

PCB Stage 6, UFO Stage 4 :V
For re-streaming see SA Stage 4 and Stage 6.

And what is pixel-perfect streaming ?
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 10, 2010, 08:46:34 PM
Streaming all the time isn't fun either.

PCB Stage 6, UFO Stage 4 :V
For re-streaming see SA Stage 4 and Stage 6.

And what is pixel-perfect streaming ?
Pixel perfect=every single bullet is perfectly aimed at your hitbox, meaning slight tapping will trivialize it entirely.

Non pixel perfect=while the bullets are aimed, there is a random factor which doesn't reduce streaming to simple tapping. Obviously, this is the more exciting one.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: ふねん1 on April 10, 2010, 08:47:26 PM
Note: all of the following assumes Banana isn't trolling us. :V

Another thing - Touhou is too slow with too dense patterns, which forces micromemorization and makes you go asleep.
Seems like you're trying to sound off your opinions as fact. I don't think I need to go on why this doesn't work.

Just getting further usually improves your personal record. Touhou requires completely changing your playing style. Scoring is 50% of shmup fun.
And simply getting further in Touhou can't possibly improve your score either? (this is assuming you're not switching playstyles between any two runs, of course) Think for a minute. End-of-stage bonuses, spellcard-related bonuses, the list goes on.

And as for the last sentence, you're making your opinions sound like facts again. There's nothing wrong with holding your own opinion (you are the one playing, after all), just don't assume everyone else will automatically agree with you.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Azinth on April 10, 2010, 08:51:06 PM
Quote
Touhou vs. Cave argument
UGH.

Lock thread and probate Bananamatic plz
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Goldom on April 10, 2010, 09:00:33 PM
Like:
Everything about IN, maybe just because it was the first I played, but I much prefer its visual style and the use of two-character teams.
But it's lead me to

Dislike:
Things that are different in the others from IN.
Especially how spell practice isn't in any other game. Not only does it make it so much easier to learn attacks, but I love stats, so having records on the level that IN does is fun.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Formless God on April 10, 2010, 09:01:42 PM
Pixel perfect=every single bullet is perfectly aimed at your hitbox, meaning slight tapping will trivialize it entirely.
As far as I've seen nearly everything up to Stage 5 in DDP is like this :V

Non pixel perfect=while the bullets are aimed, there is a random factor which doesn't reduce streaming to simple tapping. Obviously, this is the more exciting one.
Post-midboss!Nazrin fairy spam, UFO Stage 6 and Extra are all non pixel perfect streaming sections.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bias Bus on April 10, 2010, 09:05:23 PM
Like
-Shinki
-A few other characters
-Gensokyo (as in the places and mythology surrounding it)
-A few of the games

Hate
-Everything else
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Chainsaw Guitar on April 10, 2010, 09:23:55 PM
Dislike:
Fighting games (I dislike the entire genre, and haven't given Touhou's a try, so put my opinion with tengu here)

Why is everybody here hating on the fightan genre so much? Maaaaaaaaan...
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 10, 2010, 09:47:33 PM
UGH.

Lock thread and probate Bananamatic plz
If probation removes unfunny, I won't mind :V
Also, why lock AND probation? You could just probate me and leave it open.

It's not just Cave. It's shmups in general. Including Space Phallus.

scoring, let's see
safespot abuse graze milking, POC safespot abuse milking, suicidal graze milking
SA EXTREME bomb graze milking(seriously, watch the ReimuA world record)

which word have I just repeated 4 times
BOY OH BOY
now you have boss milk and STAGE MILK

UFO Extra are all non pixel perfect streaming sections.
UFO...maybe ZUN is really improving :V
So that's why I've spent so much time on UFO extra trying to get a good score. It's fun.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Solais on April 10, 2010, 10:22:30 PM
I don't really want to get into this, but Daifukkatsu Hibachi safespot.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 10, 2010, 11:33:04 PM
UGH.

Lock thread and probate Bananamatic plz

I wouldn't like to see this thread locked, personally, but here again I say - if you have a problem with someone's post, report it. I can promise you I won't out anyone as the reporter. It's all anonymous.

Bananamatic has been warned about trolling before. And while tiresome, his bitching yet again about what he finds wrong with Touhou is relevant to this thread. I hope for his sake he doesn't test the limits.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: orinrin on April 10, 2010, 11:57:38 PM
Love:
Nothing


Hate:
Nothing


Indifferent:
Everything
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 11, 2010, 12:30:50 AM
wait

since when is seriously stating your opinion trolling
there are 50 better places to shitpost and cause 100x greater drama with 500% less effort anyways

I don't really want to get into this, but Daifukkatsu Hibachi safespot.
glitch/programming error. I wonder why it didn't get fixed yet, as the non black label one was updated. They are even slower than ZUN :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: nintendonut888 on April 11, 2010, 12:42:24 AM
What I like about Touhou: The music, the characters, and the gameplay unique even among shmups (the only shmup I've ever played that comes close to being like it is Exceed 3rd BP). While great, all these would only be okay if they weren't blended together the way they are. Touhou is a rare game that both gives me a challenge that seems insurmountable yet is appealing enough to convince me to do it.

What I don't like: SA Much of the fanbase that doesn't fully appreciate such a great series (though to be fair this stereotype has been less prevalent in the last year). Still, one thing that does bug me is how certain people forget that Touhou is a game. It's not worth getting pissed off at others for being better at it than you are. As for the games themselves, clipdeath, PoFV, and Eirin. In no particular order. :V

since when is seriously stating your opinion trolling

It's trolling when you frequent a board with the sole intent to either bitch about how Touhou sucks (on a Touhou fansite) or tell people to play Dodonpachi instead.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 11, 2010, 12:54:24 AM
All this random stuff about other games scoring and challenge reminded me of another thing I like about Touhou:
It's not an arcade game. So it allows you stage practice, difficulty selection, etc. Imagine how fun learning the game would be if lunatic was the only difficulty and stage practice was not available, it would suck.

As donut said, it keeps your desire to improve to a level of mastery more than most other shmups, probably because you don't have to restart and do the WHOLE DAMN FRIGGIN GAME again over and over just because you suck at the 2nd last boss or whatever. I like hard games, but sometimes you just don't feel like sleeping thru the first few stages multiple times.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bananamatic on April 11, 2010, 01:54:39 AM
It's trolling when you frequent a board with the sole intent to either bitch about how Touhou sucks (on a Touhou fansite) or tell people to play Dodonpachi instead.
Banned from CPMC and you don't frequent AA. Sole intent? :V

don't get me wrong, I like touhou but it could use improvements

And I don't mean that DDP thing seriously. You guys are being too serious :V

actually fuck this ban me
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: ふねん1 on April 11, 2010, 02:02:49 AM
don't get me wrong, I like touhou but it could use improvements
As if anyone said Touhou was perfect in every way.

And I don't mean that DDP thing seriously. You guys are being too serious :V
Yous trollin' then? :V

Might as well stay on topic. This kind of falls under "programming errors" that I mentioned earlier, but I'd like to stress that inconsistent hitboxes are a cheap way of raising the difficulty. Some of the effects only feel pronounced enough if the bullet is going at a weird angle, but the fact that this exists at all is stupid.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Gpop on April 11, 2010, 02:06:13 AM
Banana should know that ZUN does this in his own spare time. He's not like some huge company that worries about what the fanbase wants and tries to make lots of money. He just makes the game he wants himself. If it's fun for him, it's good.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 11, 2010, 02:09:26 AM
Why would you ask to be banned when you could just log out? I never understood that. Not that I want you gone, mind you. You're basically a decent guy when you're not trolling.

On topic: PoFV. Ugly danmaku, and it won't even run properly on my machine.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 11, 2010, 02:26:29 AM
Why would you ask to be banned when you could just log out? I never understood that. Not that I want you gone, mind you. You're basically a decent guy when you're not trolling.

I think it's pms.

I never understood the "ban me" mentality either.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Azinth on April 11, 2010, 02:33:47 AM
I think it's pms.

I never understood the "ban me" mentality either.
Because he thinks he's having his freedom of speech infringed on and wants to become a martyr in the name of his cause or some shit like that.

Oh yeah, on topic, on topic...

Over time, I've come to the conclusion that PCB and IN the best Touhou games. I'd probably say that SA and MoF are the worst as far as Windows goes, though they have a few parts that I enjoy.  Discuss
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on April 11, 2010, 02:39:00 AM
hate : StB's melee style stages. and alices srs bulletspam in the early stages. I mean wtf alice.

Love : The atmosphere of the final bossfights. I would have just said PCB's bossfight, as that practically had me shed a tear to the emotion of the ending, and then I was thinking the intro byakuren gets is great when fires of hokkai starts up again to the sunrise, and then I remembered completing IN and that was pretty fantastic, so...

atmosphere is what sets it appart from everything else. That, and how it pulls you into that atmosphere through the shear fucking concentration :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: RavenEngie on April 11, 2010, 02:56:34 AM
Over time, I've come to the conclusion that PCB and IN the best Touhou games. I'd probably say that SA and MoF are the worst as far as Windows goes, though they have a few parts that I enjoy.  Discuss

PCB, agree. Others, disagree. (Apart from when you fight Kanako in MoF. STILL HAVEN'T 1CC'D IT YET! DX)

Of all the games released so far, PCB's been the one I've gone back to the most. It's just incredible. Hell, played it twice today.
IN, only part I play now is the Stage 6's, and Extra. :V
MoF : All great, apart from Granny. Maybe Sanae Stage 5 in general on the higher difficulties.
SA : Loved it. The music, settings and danmaku all fitted the characters perfectly.

And I know this has been said many times, but I just... Can't get into IaMP, SWR etc... They had a shot at it, I'll give them that... But Touhou's about the danmaku, for god's sake.
That said, StB and DS, I thought they were great, though...
hate : StB's melee style stages.
Agree completely. Meiling's and Youmu's cards completely befuddled me. Same with the ones in DS.

Love : The atmosphere of the final bossfights. I would have just said PCB's bossfight, as that practically had me shed a tear to the emotion of the ending, and then I was thinking the intro byakuren gets is great when fires of hokkai starts up again to the sunrise, and then I remembered completing IN and that was pretty fantastic, so...

atmosphere is what sets it appart from everything else. That, and how it pulls you into that atmosphere through the shear fucking concentration :V
This. Hell, sometimes I just play PCB all the way through to build up to that one point. :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 11, 2010, 02:58:03 AM
Very well put. I don't know how many times I've died because I'm spacing out watching the bullet patterns or getting into the song. Boss intros are always pretty neat. I did like Kaguya's, but my favorite moment in Imperishable Night is at Stage 4, when everything goes white, and then the moon appears. That's always enjoyable.

EDIT: I hate fighting Marisa though. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEcO4ZSv_Lw#t=1m5s&fmt=22)
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Furienify on April 11, 2010, 03:14:49 AM
Netherworld Team, Stage 6A.

Yuyuko
Oh, Youmu, now you get what I was saying?
Well then... First, be my shield.

Youmu
Affirmative.
I will be the hardest shield in all the Netherworld.

They'll always be my favourite team. The whole dialogue is a perfect example of how Yuyuko can really be- deceptively sharp and insightful, covering it up with a guise of whimsy, combined with Youmu's unwavering dedication to guard her. And if you time the music just right? Gives me shivers.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Sen on April 11, 2010, 03:18:02 AM
Likes:
Games, music, characters

Hates:
Bananamatic's trolling
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 11, 2010, 03:19:42 AM
Border Team or Magic Team for me. I love Reimu's attacks in Stage 4, and there's Master Spark. On the other hand, Border Team just annihilates this game, so if I can eek past Marisa, I'm good. Dialogue-wise I think Magic Team is more entertaining, too.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Aisha on April 11, 2010, 03:46:30 AM
The main thing I don't like about Touhou is that each game feels so derivative. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but after so many games, I wouldn't mind seeing a different approach from ZUN. I'd like to see him scratch the score system formula that he has been using since the dawn of time and try something different, perhaps something to do with enemies or bullets. I want him to switch things up and deliver a different and fresh experience.

I also wouldn't mind seeing him take the next step forward and put a bit more into the stage backgrounds. Having different types of enemies that are integrated into the backgrounds (yes, like an arcade shooter) would bring so much more life into the stages and make them a lot more interesting. Currently I just find them so abstract and usually unmemorable. Stage 4 of MoF is one of my favorites in the series simply because it has enemies emerging out from behind a waterfall.

Then there are just the little things that I wish ZUN would do: being proactive about releasing patches to fix his shit, making more balanced shot-types, and having better-defined bullet hitboxes so you don't die when there's clearly a visible space between your hitbox and the bullet. Also, no more fucking additive blend.

Lastly, I don't like fanon. At all.

As for things I like, well, I like everything else. I enjoy ZUN's mythology and find the unique touch he has in putting his games together to be appealing.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Matsuri on April 11, 2010, 03:57:33 AM
First off, Mushihimesama is much less micromemorization than you think.

Anyway:

Like:
The music, like... a whole lot
Most of the patterns
Many of the characters
The stories that aren't stupid throwaway plots like most shmups
The colors~

Dislike:
Most of the scoring systems suck
If you're not playing Hard/Lunatic it's slow-paced and somewhat dull
Memes
Most of the fanbase (like, seriously. This is the only Touhou community that I've seen so far I actually like.)
In some of the latest games, some of the bullets glow and it's annoying as hell
Curvy lasers  :(

Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: TakerFoxx on April 11, 2010, 04:10:07 AM
Likes:
Well, for starters the games are simple to learn, but are still difficult enough to merit great replay value and are great fun, even if I need to get over my ragequit tendencies.
The whole Gensokyo idea. I just like it. It's a fantasy world that's based on actual myths but has enough personality and quirks to stand on it's own. The rules are flexible to allow for all sorts of storytelling possibilities, but are still well-defined so it doesn't feel like something a third grader crapped out.
The characters are fun and endearing. I like how despite appearing to be classic Moeblobs, everyone's basically a big jerkass to each other and their first impulse upon meeting is to attack/insult/try to eat one another. Also, there's a nice blend between of lighthearted silliness and creepier dark stuff, like Flandre.
The music. Just...the music.
I'm gonna have to hand it to the fanon here. While it does get annoying when some people take it too far and get over-defensive, for the most part it's one of the cooler fanbases I've seen. All the artwork, fanfic/comics, music remixes, bands (damn, Cool&Create put on an awesome show), dances, fan games (I have got to get my hands on Touhou Mother and Touhoumon), fan vids, etc. are just plain awesome. And there is a nice sense of community that I appreciate.
I have to admit, I do like most of the memes, except when they're overused and/or pointless.
The fact that ZUN created this crazy franchise by himself, and that he's perfectly fine with all the fanworks. Also, his constant state of drunkenness is pretty amusing.

Dislikes:
The Yukkuri meme creeps the shit out of me.
Chen's uncanny ability to kill me in random spots every single game. At least have some consistency!
The porn. Dear God, the porn. It is single-handedly responsible for me engaging the safe search whenever I look up fanart.
The fact that the better I do at dodging is inversely proportional to my item collecting abilities.
The effin' Last Word in IN.
The crappy continue system in MoF. No, I don't want to do the whole freaking level over again!
The lack of decent t-shirts. I think I've seen maybe two designs I actually like.
That the Makaize anime stopped at one episode.
The inconsistency of the scoring system. Pick a way and stick with it!
The way it feeds my ragequit tendencies straight from the bottle.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Naut on April 11, 2010, 04:11:45 AM
Also, no more fucking additive blend.
In some of the latest games, some of the bullets glow and it's annoying as hell

Just poppin' in to say this is very unlikely, ZUN has been progressing more and more towards additive blending each consecutive game he makes. Very pretty, but unfortunately is a huge pain in the ass to dodge on Hard/Lunatic. Let's hope the more micrododgable patterns have some of the few alpha bullets in his arsenal?

Adding "musically synched stages" to my list of loved things in Touhou. Makes Touhou feel so much more organized when compared with other shmup games where they're just a clusterfuck of bullets thrown vaguely in your general direction with no rhyme or reason.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: ふねん1 on April 11, 2010, 04:32:15 AM
Just poppin' in to say this is very unlikely, ZUN has been progressing more and more towards additive blending each consecutive game he makes. Very pretty, but unfortunately is a huge pain in the ass to dodge on Hard/Lunatic.
I'm not sure I see additive blending becoming a real problem until UFO actually (haven't played DS yet, so don't know that one for sure). But I agree, the nature of the bullets' appearance makes them harder to dodge than they should be. I'd be perfectly fine with them if they're used for static/micromem. attacks though - then I'd be able to treat them exactly like any other kind of bullet.

Adding "musically synched stages" to my list of loved things in Touhou. Makes Touhou feel so much more organized when compared with other shmup games where they're just a clusterfuck of bullets thrown vaguely in your general direction with no rhyme or reason.
Very much this. I can't believe I forgot to include "when the good points come together" in my "likes" list before - such a feature really makes the Touhou games stand out beyond all others. Shame on me for forgetting about it for even a moment. :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Matsuri on April 11, 2010, 04:38:31 AM
As much as I hate saying it, the more ZUN uses alpha bullets, the more I'm going to dislike playing his games. Yeah, it's all pretty to watch, but a bitch to dodge.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 11, 2010, 04:40:45 AM
It's a dilemma for me. Yes, the glowing bullets are hard to dodge. But if I'm doing a spell card over and over in Double Spoiler, I want it to look pretty. And the glowing bullets do.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Aisha on April 11, 2010, 04:58:26 AM
Just poppin' in to say this is very unlikely, ZUN has been progressing more and more towards additive blending each consecutive game he makes. Very pretty, but unfortunately is a huge pain in the ass to dodge on Hard/Lunatic. Let's hope the more micrododgable patterns have some of the few alpha bullets in his arsenal?

Yeah, I noticed them here and there in MoF and SA, but UFO really took it too far. I don't think they would be so bad if they just had a solid outline so they don't become a solid mass of white when they cluster together.

I also don't like the new lasers ZUN uses. Not only do they suffer from the same additive blend shit, making it very difficult to assess their trajectories, but I find that their hitboxes are very unforgiving. I'm now mortified to get near them. And they curve sometimes. :V I was much more comfortable with the lasers used in Touhou 6-8.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Sen on April 11, 2010, 06:47:31 AM
I actually think the lasers used in SA were the best. UFO's look pretty, but the curving trajectory makes it almost impossible to read, and MoF lasers are annoying since the hitboxes are rectangle-shaped when the lasers themselves are pointed.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Iryan on April 11, 2010, 08:19:53 AM
Like:
Games; Music; Games synchronized to the music; characters; productive fan community;

Dislike:
Memes; Overabundance of fan dumb;


I'm also another member of the crusade against additive-blended bullets.

So... pretty much everything Naut said.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tonepoet on April 11, 2010, 08:59:29 AM
Just off of the top of my head:


         
Likes:
      

         
Disikes:

      
         
  • Tasteful fan-works. [Subjective]
  • The character designs: Simple ones remain distinctive and classy; complex ones don't look too far fetched or busy. Virtually all of them match.
  • The music.
  • Shoot 'em Ups are fun.
  • Lots of the dialog.
  • The unique take on a rural fantasy setting.
  • Magic.
  • Pretty Colors
  • How the games somehow pull off gender imbalance with dignity. [Most other works even coming close have obvious motives and are cheapened by this...]
      

         
  • Distasteful fan-works. [Subjective]
  • Yukurris are a crime against nature.
  • The many complications caused by being an exotic good.
  • C.C.P.G.S.S. (http://2chan.us/wordpress/2009/03/15/another-pc-98-touhou-cd-sold-on-yaj-final-price-726000-yen/)
  • Hand cramps. [Yes this is Touhou specific: I don't usually get them playing most other games.]

      

Can't think of much else right now. If not only for the sake of well outlined writing, I wish I could balance out the list more. However it's only natural that I like it more than I hate it, otherwise I'd not be here. XP
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Aisha on April 11, 2010, 09:46:22 AM
  • C.C.P.G.S.S. (http://2chan.us/wordpress/2009/03/15/another-pc-98-touhou-cd-sold-on-yaj-final-price-726000-yen/)
Haha.. I remember this. It's ridiculous.I really wish that such a compilation disc were made available for purchase once again. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It also makes me wonder--does ZUN even own the copyrights to the PC-98 games, or do they belong to Amusement Makers (like I think they do)? It might explain Reimu's name change and why ZUN is a little reluctant to resurrect things from those games.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Solais on April 11, 2010, 12:15:11 PM
I already wrote here, but I think that Touhou is better than other shmups, as it has a Soul. When I look at Arcade Shmups I just see mostly bullshit that exist solely to destroy you so you spend more money on the game, while most of the games are really, really just the same game over and over again, with a little different graphics. Even the music is almost the same. But Touhou... it's like the game has a Soul; it was made by one, single man, who poured his free time, love, feelings, talent, and hard work into making a game for an actually very little market, where he sells the games for very little money. And while he makes the games for himself, he actually thinks about the players too; if some of you followed ZUN's twitter around the development of DS, you could see how he suffered to make an enjoyable game to us, and not a sadist game to a few.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 11, 2010, 12:39:33 PM
Likes:

- Generally high quality gameplay
- Consistently awesome music
- Characters that manages to be awesome personalities while being adorable/sexy (may or may not be both simultaneously)
- Effortless lives-systems. (All Touhou games but UFO basically)
- Neat amount of resources that allow relatively painless 1cc'ing while still maintaining the challenge of the gameplay in the shape of perfect running and timeouts. (That's how i see the Touhou challenge anyway.)
-When the stages aren't being long as hell.

Dislikes:

-The games have a pretty large amount of attacks that gives me painful frustration. Attacks that destroy you and isn't nice about it either making it feel as if its the game that's being badly designed even if it was your own mistake.

- The UFO scoring/resource grinding system. To be honest, its not at all a problem for me as a scoring system but too much bad blood is between the UFO system and my playing of the game. I just want my resources given on a silver platter and then use them to the best of my ability. I hate having to work for them. - And this is regardless of what you can do to simplify the process.

-When ZUN sacrifices gameplay in favor of aesthetics. Those glowing bullets are pretty but make things needlessly harder.

-UFO Lasers. I don't care if there are any nerds tactics that works wonders. I don't care if i'm just being a horrible player (yeah, those perfect boss runs doesn't mean that one should at least have a chance in the new game does it?). The sight of that crap disgusts me and that will probably never change.

UFO Stages. I don't know why but for some reason the stages in the latest installment of the shooter series are just plain bad compared to the good old days. I can't argue for it either. Its just preference.

Myself and everyone i ever spoke to. After reviewing personal posts and others posts i spot similar tendencies. Complaining about stuff we are no good at. People who call Yuugi bullshit and me calling Ichirin bullshit despite the fact that both have been proven to be perfectly manageable. Often the sucking comes from lack of practice. I know i often do this myself and i am often left ashamed of it later.

Also, Banamatic. He exists. :)

Oh and Formless for beating me to that timeout of Ghost Wheels and for liking UFO :)

Myself for not having perfected Utsuho, Satori, Aya and Kanako yet.

Last three of course not being serious.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: LHCling on April 11, 2010, 01:06:56 PM
The main thing I don't like about Touhou is that each game feels so derivative
enemies that are integrated into the backgrounds
What about PC-98? LLS had TurretFairiesTM in various stages. Though, I do wish ZUN recreated the games or at least brought back concepts that were present and then dropped later on. Also, I believe that UFO is actually quite different as well in terms of "gameplay", don't you think so as well?

Quote
Boss Milk
Quote
エスプレイド
I think I've said enough there.

Likes:
Dislikes:
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 11, 2010, 01:28:06 PM
What is an AB bullet?
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: LHCling on April 11, 2010, 01:33:24 PM
Quote
additive-blended bullets
Sorry about that. I thought that because people used the term a ridiculous number of times in the thread already, I concluded that I could use an abbreviation and hope that people made the connection. Obviously, I wasn't thinking straight seeing as I'm really, really tired at this point (RL-related; on a Sunday of all things). Editing.

...I think this is probably a good point for me to get to sleep.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 11, 2010, 01:37:42 PM
Sorry about that. I thought that because people used the term a ridiculous number of times in the thread already, I concluded that I could use an abbreviation and hope that people made the connection. Obviously, I wasn't thinking straight seeing as I'm really, really tired at this point (RL-related; on a Sunday of all things). Editing.

...I think this is probably a good point for me to get to sleep.

Yeah, go home and sleep forever!
Oh that kind of bullet... i think i'll be needing some sleep as well.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Aisha on April 11, 2010, 01:43:32 PM
What about PC-98? LLS had TurretFairiesTM in various stages.

Since then I think ZUN has forgotten that the ground exists. :V

Quote
Though, I do wish ZUN recreated the games or at least brought back concepts that were present and then dropped later on. Also, I believe that UFO is actually quite different as well in terms of "gameplay", don't you think so as well?

Eh.. At first I thought that UFO was taking a step in the right direction, but as I've reflected on it more, I've concluded that's it's just more of the same. UFO is different in that it gives the player a choice in how they want to progress, but I didn't find it substantial enough to drastically alter the gameplay; in other words, I didn't find myself playing it any differently than I do any other Touhou game. The scoring system itself is also just the one used in SA, but repackaged as a UFO. In both games, you graze to increase the value of the point items, and cash-in by collecting above the POC or by utilizing the game's gimmick. Sure there might be (many) differences when it comes down to intricacies, but I think the general formula is pretty much the same. When I said that I want to see ZUN deliver a different and fresh experience, I meant that I want to see a difference in gameplay as stark as the one between DoDonPachi Dai Ou Jou and Espgaluda.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 11, 2010, 01:51:08 PM
Since then I think ZUN has forgotten that the ground exists. :V

.... what does this even mean?
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Sapz on April 11, 2010, 01:58:51 PM
.... what does this even mean?
Means no grounded enemies; things like turrets, tanks that move along the ground, things that pop out of the ground, etc etc. They move (or don't move) independently of the screen scrolling, basically, so you usually want to go out of your way to destroy them before they get too low on the screen. I'd like to see some of these as well, I think they could make the stage sections a lot more interesting (at the minute they're pretty weak compared to the boss fights, IMO). Kind of difficult with the abstract background thing ZUN's got going on at the minute, though. :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 11, 2010, 02:00:45 PM
Oh, that. I guess that'd be a neat gimmick but I can't say it's something I find missing from the game.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: ?lice Bl?ckb?rn on April 11, 2010, 02:53:46 PM
I also wouldn't mind seeing him take the next step forward and put a bit more into the stage backgrounds. Having different types of enemies that are integrated into the backgrounds (yes, like an arcade shooter) would bring so much more life into the stages and make them a lot more interesting. Currently I just find them so abstract and usually unmemorable. Stage 4 of MoF is one of my favorites in the series simply because it has enemies emerging out from behind a waterfall.
I actually like this a lot. I have bad/weird eyes with notoriously bad contrast sensitivity, and a lot of shmup backgrounds are so goddamn noisy that my eyes at times stop being able to differentiate between bullets, enemies, portions of the background that *won't* kill you for a change, and medals/point items/powerups/1ups/bomb items/etc. It all blends together into this weird mess. With the Touhou backgrounds, that's not an issue, they're usually very simple and made predominantly of solid colours, and thus it's virtually always easy to see when something is moving overtop of the damn things and if it's a bullet or a 1up/point item/power item/etc.

Other things that I like:
THE PATTERNS. Probably the biggest draw of Touhou for me is the complex patterns that boss spellcards have that add a puzzlegame aspect to the shmup gameplay.
Fairly consistently good gameplay, for that matter.
The amount of lives is nice, warrants less grinding for a 1cc while still letting you pull off stuff like No Bombs 1ccs if you really want to put a crapton of time into playing the games.
The music. The music is simply excellent.
For that matter, the synchronization of the games to the music - this is something that needs to be done more often in shmups, it alone makes playing a given stage approximately 10x more awesome for me.

Dislikes:
Virtually all of the fanbase. Jesus Arc-Welding Christ, the fandumb just gets to ludicrous extents half of the time.
BOSS MILK/STAGE MILK-based scoring systems. Blargh. And people wonder why I don't play Touhou for score at all :V
UFO curvylasers. What was ZUN drinking when he designed those?
UFO's power system, for that matter. Losing a whole 1.xx power upon death? What the shit, way to make recovering from a death in UFO like 10x harder for absolutely no good reason, ZUN.
Speaking of fandumb, virtually all of the memes, but that's neither here nor there.

Indifferent:
Characters, plot, doujins. Meh. Really couldn't care less about the vast majority of this stuff, it isn't terribly interesting. Especially the doujins, which I find are all terribly boring and usually also fairly asinine, tbqh.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Helion on April 11, 2010, 03:26:38 PM
Love:
-THE MUSIC - it's what got me into the games
-The gameplay, when it's hard but fair type
-The boss fights, especially Extra stages

Hate:
-The stages, they are generally boring and falling asleep through them means chances for retarded deaths and downward spirals. PCB stage 4 is a particularly bad offender
-Everything to do with memorization, especially micromemorizing patterns.
-Safespot attacks

Indifferent:
-Bananamatic's arguments: I like Touhou AND Dodonpachi, your arguments count as preaching to che choir.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: theshirn on April 11, 2010, 05:22:30 PM
LOVE:
STORY OF EASTERN WONDERLAND

HATE:
EVERYTHING ELSE

see, that's trolling
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Trinket on April 11, 2010, 05:54:36 PM
Like:
The characters
The danmaku patterns
The music

Dislike:
Yukari not being a loli.
Phantasmagoria characters (Not that there's anything wrong with them, but I just somehow don't take those games seriously enough to get to know the characters.)
In PCB, when you get that cherry border, and then you feel all "Ahh, safety" and then it goes away~
Suika not appearing enough.


Something like that, I didn't put much thought into it
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: KrackoCloud on April 11, 2010, 09:51:54 PM
I honestly don't have much to say in this.
I really like Touhou for its great music, extensive cast, and pretty patterns.
I don't like how you're pretty much always forced to start over from the beginning when you lose in the games. I mean, it makes sense and there's not many good alternatives, but... It just bothers me how I have to start at Stage 1 when all my problems start at Stage 4.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 11, 2010, 10:05:06 PM
It just bothers me how I have to start at Stage 1 when all my problems start at Stage 4.

1. Study your replays for mistakes.
2. Spam continues until you unlock Stage 4 in Practice Start.
3. Practice til you got that sucker down.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 11, 2010, 10:18:16 PM
1. Study your replays for mistakes.
2. Spam continues until you unlock Stage 4 in Practice Start.
3. Practice til you got that sucker down.

This, you realize Touhou is one of very very few shmups that has a practice stage mode? (talking to kracko here). I'm not really sure what you expect.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Chaotic Phoenixma on April 11, 2010, 10:20:41 PM
That's helped a bit to a lot on every stage 4 except PCB, where I still fail the stage every time.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Aisha on April 11, 2010, 10:24:20 PM
Plenty of shmups outside of MAME have a stage practice mode.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 11, 2010, 10:31:31 PM
Plenty of shmups outside of MAME have a stage practice mode.

I know, most shmups are on mame though >=P
edit: Just remember I even mentioned that as a benefit for being a non-arcade shmup.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Azinth on April 11, 2010, 10:34:33 PM
And MAME has savestates , which gives the player way more practicing options than just about any kind of stage practice can. :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 11, 2010, 10:36:40 PM
And MAME has savestates , which gives the player way more practicing options than just about any kind of stage practice can. :V

That's a feature in Mame, not the actual game itself. You could theoretically use a cheat program for a non-mame game to give you unlimited lives or continues or whatever else but that wouldn't really count either.

*mumbles* I can't get them to work in my mame games either.. gah.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Azinth on April 11, 2010, 10:47:45 PM
Quote
*mumbles* I can't get them to work in my mame games either.. gah.
Wolfmame99.

Go crazy.

Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Sinner on April 11, 2010, 10:48:18 PM
Like:

- Pretty much all the characters, both personality and designs
- The music, oh my god the music
- Gensokyo itself and it's mythology
- The gameplay, even though I suck terribly at the games
- The fighters, I suck at them as much as I do at the danmaku ones but at least I can have a few fun matches with friends
- The fan base, yes it has more than its fair share of retards but without it I'd have never have heard of Touhou and it can produce some good stuff at times.
- The colorful fireworks
- Pairings, I'm a yurifag

Meh:

- Memes, some are funny as a joke once in a while but others ("Aya's a slut", Ran's pedo for Chen etc) get annoying quick.

Dislike:

- The UFO system, great idea but it gets me killed way too much ;_;
- Orin's boss battle, she's easily within my top 5 characters but the difficulty of it is too much for me, she rapes me every time and not in a pleasurable way either.
- McRoll, thanks to it I heard U.N Owen Was Her and ended up finding about Touhou in the long run but the fad is annoying.

That's not all of it, but it's a start.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: The Greatest Dog on April 11, 2010, 11:55:02 PM
Likes:
Dislikes:
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Alice★f on April 12, 2010, 12:19:15 AM
Likes:

Colorful Bullets and Cute Girls? (Including cosplayers)
Epic Theme   Music
Plotline and Freedom of   Expression to the Fans (Except in Anime, though.)
Creativity by Part   of the Fandom. (C'mon, there's only so much an underweight alcoholic can   do.)
The Insane Sadistic Difficulty of the Games.
Quote from: Lantern link=topic=5677.msg309403#msg309403
Dislike:
Yukari not being a loli.
Like:
Yukari not being a loli.

Sakuya and Utsuho (not as pairing, though.)

Dislike:

Obnoxious fandom.
Some memes/commonly accepted ideas. Tenshi being a masochist? =/ c'mon...
UFO system (Everyone's been bashing that lately, though. =[
Sudden clippage, bad hitboxes (Remi's bubbles in her opener)

& WHAT ANIME IS THIS
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Sinner on April 12, 2010, 10:10:00 AM
Likes:
Yukari not being a loli.

Oh yeah I forgot this one.

Dislike:
& WHAT ANIME IS THIS

I find this one pretty hilarious at times and at others it does get rather annoying. I mean sometimes the video might not have the word "touhou" in plain English so it's forgivable if some people get confused but people still seem to jump into "WTF U RETART ITS A SHOOTING GAME!!!11" mode a little too fast. Of course when the name is there clear as day and people still ask, wanting to slap them for not having any common sense and reading is  completely understandable.


Another one I forgot...

Dislike:

- SakuyaxRemilia, no, just no.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 12, 2010, 10:46:20 AM
Dislike:
I find this one pretty hilarious at times and at others it does get rather annoying. I mean sometimes the video might not have the word "touhou" in plain English so it's forgivable if some people get confused but people still seem to jump into "WTF U RETART ITS A SHOOTING GAME!!!11" mode a little too fast. Of course when the name is there clear as day and people still ask, wanting to slap them for not having any common sense and reading is  completely understandable.

Just because the video gives the name in readable doesn't mean that people would know its a game would it? Unless you do research there is nothing about the word Touhou that indicates that its a game. And a lot of that fanmade material really doesn't say much about it being a game. I can understand why people gets confused if they have never heard about it before.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Procyon-Vulpecula on April 12, 2010, 10:51:09 AM
Am I the only person whose only dislike (if you can call it that) is how bloody difficult the whole thing is? (and that just makes it fun.)

I still like all the characters, the storylines of the games, the shooting games, the fighting games, the music, the remixes, the fanon, the fandom, the memes, the doujin manga and anime, the fanfic, the fanart... everything.
...I've been into Touhou since about November. Will I eventually learn to hate things? :P
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Sinner on April 12, 2010, 10:53:22 AM
Just because the video gives the name in readable doesn't mean that people would know its a game would it? Unless you do research there is nothing about the word Touhou that indicates that its a game. And a lot of that fanmade material really doesn't say much about it being a game. I can understand why people gets confused if they have never heard about it before.

Apparently googling or even using youtube's own search function are strange kinds of foreign magic only few people know how to use.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 12, 2010, 10:56:33 AM
"What anime is this?" can only make me laugh. It just can't be helped.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 12, 2010, 10:59:19 AM
Just figured out that i hate everything that isn't easy mode or Call of Duty so Touhou sucks now. :]

Will I eventually learn to hate things? :P

Yes, you will. Once you get older you will find hate that makes you want to beat ZUN with a bat. Or his fanbase. Or maybe even ZUN's creation. Just have patience and you will find your thing to hate. (And a personal favor: Don't become a Yuugi hater.)

Apparently googling or even using youtube's own search function are strange kinds of foreign magic only few people know how to use.

Maybe people don't think too much of it. If they seriously wanted to know what Touhou is they would probably go look for it on google. Its just easier for them to leave the "what anime is this" comment. I suppose its laziness. My introduction to the Touhou games were a phantasm video so i wouldn't know.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Sinner on April 12, 2010, 11:15:44 AM


Maybe people don't think too much of it. If they seriously wanted to know what Touhou is they would probably go look for it on google. Its just easier for them to leave the "what anime is this" comment. I suppose its laziness. My introduction to the Touhou games were a phantasm video so i wouldn't know.

Laziness is mainly my problem with it I think. It's bearable though, as far as youtube comments go there's a lot worse that's for sure.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Easy Mode on April 12, 2010, 12:10:57 PM
I like the music, character designs, etc.

I hate the stupid fandumb theories.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bias Bus on April 12, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
Will I eventually learn to hate things? :P
You're just getting into it.

I was the same way when I first started Touhou, but now look at me, I can't stand about half of the shit that gets put out for Touhou.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Solais on April 12, 2010, 12:25:13 PM
This Friday I'll have my first anniversary with Touhou and I still don't hate anything about it.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 12, 2010, 12:45:01 PM
Wow, you remember the precise day? I know it was August 2007 for me but I have no idea what day.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Solais on April 12, 2010, 12:56:38 PM
Actually, no, I remember from the date I've downloaded the Apllocale installer... and I actually remembered it wrong, my 1st Anniversary was on the 10th, Goddammit, I wanted to celebrate it. April 19th was my fist Normal 1cc of a Touhou game, EoSD. ... and that's not Friday... I have a really bad memory as you see. :V
I'd be that kind of horrible husband who forgets the anniversaries. :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Bias Bus on April 12, 2010, 01:07:34 PM
Yeah...that sounds about the same >_>

I can't remember the first time I downloaded the PC98 games either, then again I usually don't pay attention to shit like that. Although I can say it couldn't have been that long ago, maybe 2 years or so.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Gpop on April 12, 2010, 02:19:41 PM
I remember I first discovered Touhou around November 2007. First played it at December 2007.

I don't remember the exact date either though =/.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Formless God on April 12, 2010, 02:29:19 PM
- Sanae is a slut.
(waah waah she stole Sakuya's rightful place in UFO !!!1!!1! <fanboybitchmoancry>)
- Suppa-Tenko !
- CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Just fucking stop.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Arcengal on April 12, 2010, 04:30:58 PM
Like:

Music
Games
Flavour / background
Feelings of accomplishment based on games

Dislike:

UFO Lunatic
Lasers
DS 12-6
Yukkuris.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 12, 2010, 07:02:40 PM
- Sanae is arrogant holier than thou egomaniac bish.
(waah waah She doesn't deserve to be a playable character, sakuya or not rightful place in UFO !!!1!!1! )

fixt >=)

Seriously, reminded me that one of my least fave characters got that spot.. grrrr. >=P
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Chainsaw Guitar on April 12, 2010, 08:03:30 PM
<fanboybitchmoancry>

This. This right here is one of the many reasons Yumeko is superior to Sakuya.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 12, 2010, 08:42:52 PM
DS 12-6

Just in general when ZUN makes glitches. I captured that attack TWICE hoping to get a functioning replay but alas i didn't. Similar to MoF S4 and SA S6 this thing. Fucking annoying crap.

I was the same way when I first started Touhou, but now look at me, I can't stand about half of the shit that gets put out for Touhou.

Yeah, or look at me and my endless anti-UFO rants. I've been reduced to a bitter old man at the age of 17 who likes young girls too much and long for the good old days of Touhou. (Pre-MoF)
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: KrackoCloud on April 12, 2010, 11:00:39 PM
Phwoar. Lots of posts before I even got to replying to stuff.
1. Study your replays for mistakes.
2. Spam continues until you unlock Stage 4 in Practice Start.
3. Practice til you got that sucker down.
What I meant was that I don't actually start dying until Stage 4, so the first three stages feel like a waste of time. I can still usually get to Stage 6.
This, you realize Touhou is one of very very few shmups that has a practice stage mode? (talking to kracko here). I'm not really sure what you expect.
Yeah, I don't play practice much. But still, you can't really unlock anything except through the real playthrough. Practice helps, but it's the combination of stages and a net total of lost lives that cause my downfall, so unless I master the stages through practice... Or is that what you were getting at?
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Alice★f on April 13, 2010, 05:51:19 AM
"THIS IS HOW THEY MADE IT" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeEIteQmpHE)

Dislike:
Butthurt fandom

Comments on that page are just, horrible...

Kind of makes me wonder somtimes: What's worse? Twilight fans or Touhou fans?
Touhou fans can dodge bullets, though.
- Sanae is a slut.
(waah waah she stole Sakuya's rightful place in UFO !!!1!!1! <fanboybitchmoancry>)
- Suppa-Tenko !
- CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Just fucking stop.
Sanae is a slut, what are you talking about?
j/k

<Not directed to anyone in particular>
Yeah, if only people would read the goddamn dialogue and realize that Sakuya says at the end of PoFV "Resolving incidents is the work of a shrine maiden."

(I mean, if you can bitch that much that your favorite character is not in the new game, you should know what already. I mean, you like Sakuya so much, don't you? You're probably the type that doesn't care about the Touhou unless Sakuya is in it.)

I would have loved for Sakuya to be in UFO (Her PCB shot is better than Sanae A's anyway =/

But it wouldn't make sense.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Silent Harmony on April 13, 2010, 06:40:38 AM
Kind of makes me wonder somtimes: What's worse? Twilight fans or Touhou fans?

Considering I've yet heard of a Touhou equivalent of this (http://twilightsucks.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=fangirls&action=display&thread=5175) (at least western-fanbase wise), I think Twilight has the edge.

Oh god please don't let there be a Touhou equivalent of that....
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 13, 2010, 07:48:47 AM
What I meant was that I don't actually start dying until Stage 4, so the first three stages feel like a waste of time. I can still usually get to Stage 6. Yeah, I don't play practice much. But still, you can't really unlock anything except through the real playthrough. Practice helps, but it's the combination of stages and a net total of lost lives that cause my downfall, so unless I master the stages through practice... Or is that what you were getting at?

This is exactly why I said you should spam continues in Stage 4 until you unlock it in Practice Start, and then do Stage 4 runs in Practice Start until you got it down.

I don't know why people only save replays of their successes when they can learn from their mistakes by saving replays of their failures. I don't know why people completely ignore Practice Start and then complain that they always die at the same spot. There are tools there for you to use. You'd be surprised the difference they make.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: CarefreeCat on April 14, 2010, 08:07:37 PM
I hate it when I die right after/before I capture a spell card.
I also hate how EoSD doesn't have a hitbox. But that's what patches are for, right? Right?!?
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 14, 2010, 08:38:35 PM
I hate it when I die right after/before I capture a spell card.
I also hate how EoSD doesn't have a hitbox. But that's what patches are for, right? Right?!?

Indeed. That's what patches are for. Don't listen to those elitists who claim that using hitbox patch is cheating.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Matsuri on April 14, 2010, 08:52:06 PM
But... it is cheating.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Pai! on April 14, 2010, 11:06:31 PM
Love the characters.
Love the music.
Love the gameplay.
Hate the fact that I'm terrible at it.
Hate that Cirno is not the final boss of EoSD, for I lose interest after her stage.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on April 14, 2010, 11:13:44 PM
But... it is cheating.

... not this again ...
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: CarefreeCat on April 14, 2010, 11:17:49 PM
Hate that Cirno is not the final boss of EoSD, for I lose interest after her stage.

 I always found Cirno and Rumia's stage a bit boring, but Chinese Tea always revived me. And if you haven't fought Remilia yet, I guarantee you won't lose interest during her stage.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Pai! on April 14, 2010, 11:22:12 PM
I always found Cirno and Rumia's stage a bit boring, but Chinese Tea always revived me. And if you haven't fought Remilia yet, I guarantee you won't lose interest during her stage.

I haven't gotten to Remilia, though I am aware of her epic theme... but I just have Chirumiru Cirno running through my head during Chinese Tea and it's sort of like, "Oh, I wanna go listen again~" And during my bit of distraction, I die four or five times. Which discourages me, and leads me to restarting .-. Sigh.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 14, 2010, 11:24:44 PM
How can you lose interest just before the whole SDM cast, they are like the coolest group in all of Touhou! blasphemy!
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Pai! on April 14, 2010, 11:28:39 PM
I know! >O I love the whole SDM cast lots. It annoys me that I can never get to them though... I always run out of continues on Patchouli. >>
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on April 14, 2010, 11:30:10 PM
I know! >O I love the whole SDM cast lots. It annoys me that I can never get to them though... I always run out of continues on Patchouli. >>

She's a nasty one. Eirin would cure her illnesses but Patchy would dominate all of Gensokyo if she did >=)
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Pai! on April 14, 2010, 11:32:17 PM
She's a nasty one. Eirin would cure her illnesses but Patchy would dominate all of Gensokyo if she did >=)

... that's actually quite fun to imagine. Good 'ol Eirin~ 8D
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: CarefreeCat on April 14, 2010, 11:52:34 PM
She's a nasty one. Eirin would cure her illnesses but Patchy would dominate all of Gensokyo if she did >=)

Damn right! Patchy always ruins my chances of finishing EoSD with 1 continue on normal and up.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Pai! on April 14, 2010, 11:58:22 PM
Damn right! Patchy always ruins my chances of finishing EoSD with 1 continue on normal and up.

I still can't get past it at all... on Easy... That's another thing I hate about Touhou >< Not enough Continues.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: CarefreeCat on April 15, 2010, 12:05:59 AM
That's when you do one of my favorite things about Touhou: Focus! I wouldn't even be able to get past Rumia without it.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Alice★f on April 15, 2010, 12:16:19 AM
How can you lose interest just before the whole SDM cast, they are like the coolest group in all of Touhou! blasphemy!

Hell yeah! Woo!
The SDM Cast and the SA Cast are my favorites, honestly.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Goldom on April 15, 2010, 07:44:41 PM
Gotta add to hate list...
Practicing something over and over, finally getting to where I can do it with some regularity, then getting to it in regular play, and panicking straight into the first bullet I see.

Also EYE STRAIN
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Napalnman1231 on April 19, 2010, 03:57:37 AM
Things that I like about Touhou:

All Games
Fandom
Characters
Music
Megamari

Hate:

Touhou H Doujin (I don't like how they treat Flandre and Suwako there)
EX Keine (I don't hate her as a character, just in the game)
IN 3rd Stage - Keine's boss battle

Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Hakkai on April 19, 2010, 10:48:51 PM
I just HATE these snake-laser
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Trinket on April 20, 2010, 08:31:53 PM
Oh yeah.

Curvy lasers. God damnit, curvy lasers.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 20, 2010, 08:50:50 PM
Touhou H Doujin (I don't like how they treat Flandre and Suwako there)

But they are both way beyond 18 years old.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Alice★f on April 23, 2010, 12:46:59 AM
Touhou H Doujin (I don't like how they treat Flandre and Suwako there)
Why? Some of them are very high quality, I gotta admit, but the rest is a load of unmarketable crap.

Touhou H Doujins outnumber all other franchises by a huge margin, and it's only a small fraction of all doujinshi for Touhou.
If I have anything to complain about, it's Inu-Sakuya. Yuck.
and futa

Another Like:

UN Owen Was Her
But then again, all touhoufags like it, so this is redundant
not true
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Minunlike on April 23, 2010, 08:07:33 PM
Things I like:
~ Most characters (Especially Yuyuko)
~ Bullet patterns which are moderately challenging, but not WTF hard
~ Music
~ Utsuho and her goal of world domination (cue M Bison "Of course!" clip)
~ The PC-98 games
~ The dedication of the fans
~ The dedication of ZUN


Things I hate:
~ The UFO system
~ The lack of a cut-in picture for bombs in UFO
~ MoF and SA's bomb system
~ SA in general (besides Utsuho)
~ Characters who are defined only by the concept they represent (Suwako, Yuugi, Koishi)
~ Bullet patterns that require extremely precise movement
~ Fans who insist that their way of playing is the correct way
~ Excessive amounts of H-material
~ Certain memes (Yukkuris are quite annoying, and I don't like Alice's portrayal as a rapist)
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Azure Lazuline on April 24, 2010, 12:57:11 AM
This is going to sound stupid, but there's only one thing I like about Touhou: the whole thing. Everything is just put together so well, and it doesn't hurt that all of the parts are awesome too. ZUN takes all the little details and forms them into a single experience that can't even be described. The music's good, the graphics are good, the story is funny and deep at the same time, the patterns look wonderful, and the characters are memorable. Any of those alone would be cool, but they all somehow combine into something even better.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Zengeku on April 26, 2010, 10:56:48 AM
As deep as a puddle of rainwater, the story that is. Very likeable.

Another thing i like about Touhou is the support it gets from the patchers. The guys who makes english patches and hitbox patches and vsync patches. Awesome that somebody helps ZUN with his own shortcomings.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Nyyl on April 26, 2010, 01:03:56 PM
Like:
Addictive gameplay. why do i keep going to byakuren to get my trash kicked~
Awesome musics. (that should be obvious though)
The fact that it has EVERYTHING EVER
Also the story. Touhou story gets a lot of poor reception for being so whimsical and pointless... but I still love it.

Hate:
Fanbase drama. That's pretty much all there is to hate.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Shade on May 02, 2010, 02:43:36 PM
I hate danmaku the comes from behind (Patchies Royal flare)
I love the 'reply value'
I like the character selection
I hate how time consuming extra mode takes but like it at the same time.
I like when touhou games have the 'practice spell card' mode.

And how could I forget:

I like how challenging it is
I love the music.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Radaxen on May 02, 2010, 02:52:30 PM
Like:

Music
Characters
Music
Music Remixes
Epic pictures of ANY character
All the Final Boss Themes
The fighting games because I suck at the standard ones
...Music



Dislike:

Easy is too hard for newbs :( ...(can't even clear EoSD, SA Easy using all continues)
Too little chars in TH12.3 (don't think many people care about this one)
Touhou pr0n
Some of the fanbase
Merlin Prismriver (okay I admit, it's curvy lasers)
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: mew77 on May 03, 2010, 01:58:38 AM
easy is too hard...but that's by stage 4 on EoSD

and stage 5 on SA

SA stage 4 is still doable, but Yuugi is still frustrating.

Like
the music
the remixes of the music
some comics
the games
Touhou allowed me to rediscover the scrolling shooter genre
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: WanderingKnight on May 03, 2010, 09:07:21 PM
Dislike:

Fandumb. The only reason I like Touhou is because of the STGs.

Love/Hate relationship:

The UFO mechanic. It's terribly gimmicky, but chasing UFOs makes things a lot more interesting and gives me a rush that only late-stage bosses and post-stage 2 Cave games give me. UFO has probably the most fun stage portions in all of Touhou games because of this. But I can't convince myself that it is good as a scoring mechanic--since I'm still bad at the game, I need to play for survival and as such my scores suck balls. But at the same time, that gives it an even higher learning curve (meaning a longer life for the game) which makes it even more appealing. Also whoever said that it's bad as a resource management strategy, it is the ultimate resource management strategy. At least in order to get a good score.

Honestly, about the discussion in the first posts (no I don't think Bananamatic was trolling) Cave games and Touhou games are completely different beasts. Cave games tend to have a lot more aimed bullets (randomized as Banana said) which forces you to play faster and basically makes it less about memorization and more about reflexes, though memorization still plays a big part in it. Touhou has a notably inferior number of aimed patterns--in fact, most of the patterns are either static (to some degree) or completely random, and sometimes I don't see too much thought put into, for example, mixing a whole bunch of aimed bullets coupled with one or two enemies firing a static pattern during the stage portions, which leads to the blandness some people complain about in Touhou's stage portions. This is not bad per se, but it leads itself to a whole different style of play.

Which leads me to my ultimate complaint about the series: How playing Touhou makes me bad at other shmups and viceversa :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on May 04, 2010, 01:28:55 AM
Cave games and Touhou games are completely different beasts. Cave games tend to have a lot more aimed bullets (randomized as Banana said) which forces you to play faster and basically makes it less about memorization and more about reflexes, though memorization still plays a big part in it. Touhou has a notably inferior number of aimed patterns--in fact, most of the patterns are either static (to some degree) or completely random, and sometimes I don't see too much thought put into, for example, mixing a whole bunch of aimed bullets coupled with one or two enemies firing a static pattern during the stage portions, which leads to the blandness some people complain about in Touhou's stage portions. This is not bad per se, but it leads itself to a whole different style of play.

Having watched plenty of Touhou and a fair amount of Cave, I honestly cannot see where you're coming from here. Maybe I'm missing something, but there are countless Touhou spellcards I could name that involve "aimed patterns". I'd go so far as to say the "completely random" ones seem to be in the minority (lookin' at you, PoFV). Cave has plenty of random crap floating around, too.

All due respect for your opinion and all, it's just the complete opposite of my experience.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: WanderingKnight on May 04, 2010, 01:43:54 AM
Flip on Dodonpachi and look at the first stage--during the whole stage portion, almost every single pattern is aimed (actually, except for the bosses, I think the whole of the first stage in Dodonpachi is aimed patterns). Flip on any Touhou game and you'll see almost the exact opposite.

That's not to say there aren't aimed attacks in Touhou--there are quite a few. But given any random snapshot of a spellcard or a stage portion in Touhou, a vast majority of the time most of the bullets on the screen aren't aimed at you. That's not to say it makes the game easier or harder--well, for me in particular it makes it easier, though some people might have more problems micrododging and memorizing patterns.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Azinth on May 04, 2010, 01:56:53 AM
Flip on Dodonpachi and look at the first stage--during the whole stage portion, almost every single pattern is aimed (actually, except for the bosses, I think the whole of the first stage in Dodonpachi is aimed patterns). Flip on any Touhou game and you'll see almost the exact opposite.

That's not to say there aren't aimed attacks in Touhou--there are quite a few. But given any random snapshot of a spellcard or a stage portion in Touhou, a vast majority of the time most of the bullets on the screen aren't aimed at you. That's not to say it makes the game easier or harder--well, for me in particular it makes it easier, though some people might have more problems micrododging and memorizing patterns.
Just about every stage 1 of every Windows Touhou game is nothing but aimed patterns.  In fact, the vast majority of Touhou stages are nothing but aimed patterns, usually in the form of a stream aimed at your hitbox that can be simply tap-dodged.  What are you talking about? :/
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Nyyl on May 04, 2010, 02:03:05 AM
Flip on Dodonpachi and look at the first stage--during the whole stage portion, almost every single pattern is aimed (actually, except for the bosses, I think the whole of the first stage in Dodonpachi is aimed patterns). Flip on any Touhou game and you'll see almost the exact opposite.

That's not to say there aren't aimed attacks in Touhou--there are quite a few. But given any random snapshot of a spellcard or a stage portion in Touhou, a vast majority of the time most of the bullets on the screen aren't aimed at you. That's not to say it makes the game easier or harder--well, for me in particular it makes it easier, though some people might have more problems micrododging and memorizing patterns.

It feels... kinda the opposite to me, actually. From what I've played of Cave STGs, most of the challenge comes from bullets going in every direction, making you maneuver through a "field" of danmaku. DDP stages do have aiming, I'll give you that, but the bosses are mostly static blasts of bullets. Touhou, on the other hand, has liberal amounts of aimed patterns. Even some boss attacks are aimed. Though, your point still stands. It's true that Touhou requires more memorization than Cave shooters, which rely more on reflex.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Tengukami on May 04, 2010, 02:05:18 AM
Huh. I think on the whole I find a lot of bullets are indeed flying right at me most of the time. Not that bullets aimed at you necessarily means harder, as you say - ZUN tosses in aesthetic effects that I like looking at more than a spray of bullets in multiple beam formation, and that make me change up how I'm playing.

It certainly does effect how you play other shmups, too. I really like the eXceed series, for example, and I'm basically streaming left and right, stage after stage. Play that for a while and then open up one from the Touhou series, and you really feel a difference.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: WanderingKnight on May 04, 2010, 04:22:12 AM
Quote
Just about every stage 1 of every Windows Touhou game is nothing but aimed patterns.  In fact, the vast majority of Touhou stages are nothing but aimed patterns, usually in the form of a stream aimed at your hitbox that can be simply tap-dodged.  What are you talking about?

Huh? I'm seriously trying to think here but I don't think aimed patterns are common. Or at least as commonplace as in most other shmups out there. There are several sections which rely heavily on it (for example, a lot of PCB stage 4), but most of times it's static or randomized patterns in the form of walls (PCB stage 5, most of IN stage 4, IN stage 5), etc. Or at least that's the impression I get.

I might be wrong. I'm not a shmup expert by any means, it's just a random observation I think has a lot to do with the differences between Touhou and the rest of the danmaku shooters, Cave in particular, but it just might be a wrong impression. I'd have to sit down and analyze it in more detail. Of course there are a couple of other factors (bullet speed in particular) which are also part of the differences. Also, I really don't pay too much attention to bullets in stages 1 in Touhou because they're all so damn boring.

Quote
It feels... kinda the opposite to me, actually. From what I've played of Cave STGs, most of the challenge comes from bullets going in every direction, making you maneuver through a "field" of danmaku.

I think that impression has more to do with the fact that, most of the time, you're confronted with bullets aimed at you but slightly randomized so it's not just a matter of tapping to the sides.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Aisha on May 04, 2010, 05:05:40 AM
I don't think that the difference between Touhou and Cave (and most other arcade shooters, really) can really be described in terms of bullet patterns because there is going to be a lot of ambiguous overlap. Both are going to have aimed bullets and static spreads; both are going to have slow bullets and fast bullets; and both are going to have geometric bullet patterns and random sprays. It's what the games do with these elements that makes the difference, which I think can be summarized with the word "relentlessness". I'm not sure if it's something that can be truly realized without actually playing both and comparing. Arcade shooters in general have a more aggressive pacing that will overwhelm the player if the player does not respond with a higher level of intensity in his play. I know that when I play an arcade shooter, I'm much more tense and unable to relax until the game is tallying my score at the end of each stage. When I play a Touhou game or clone, I'm at ease more often and find myself catching my breath at many points throughout each stage.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Marly on May 08, 2010, 04:07:58 AM
Like: The music, the gameplay, and general character designs.

Dislike: Plot.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Kayin on May 08, 2010, 04:32:08 AM
Like

-The gameplay. Shmups are a dying genre and I openly welcome any shmup into my collection of games.
-The music. I fucking swear it's been covered/arranged as damn near everything. It's very easy for me to find covers/arranges I like.
-IaMP. I love fighting games and IaMP is easily the most unique doujin fighter I've ever played.
-The characters. ZUN's art kind of sucks, but the fanart makes up for it.

Dislike

-Secondary fandom. I thought no genre could be worse than fighting games in regards to having fans that don't actually play, but Touhou seems to take the cake.
-SWR/UNL. Took everything that made IaMP good and got rid of it. (I'm gonna get so much hate for this. :/)
-ZUN's art.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Esoterica on May 08, 2010, 04:37:38 AM
-SWR/UNL. Took everything that made IaMP good and got rid of it. (I'm gonna get so much hate for this. :/)
More like support; IaMP is by far the best of the fighters.

I find Soku tolerable though, given that it took out some of the stupid crap that annoyed me in SWR (i.e. wrongblocking being advantageous) and added more layers of depth to the card system.  Plus, more fun characters.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: ふねん1 on May 08, 2010, 04:50:47 AM
I find Soku tolerable though, given that it took out some of the stupid crap that annoyed me in SWR (i.e. wrongblocking being advantageous) and added more layers of depth to the card system.  Plus, more fun characters.
It's technically not a part of the original game, but I've also seen a "no weather" patch for Hisoutensoku if you hate the weather aspect (though I'm not familiar with the general community's stance on this). Don't know if SWR ever got an equivalent patch though.

Yeah, Hisoutensoku's card system is quite fun IMO. Plus there's Utsuho. :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Esoterica on May 08, 2010, 04:56:00 AM
It's technically not a part of the original game, but I've also seen a "no weather" patch for Hisoutensoku if you hate the weather aspect (though I'm not familiar with the general community's stance on this). Don't know if SWR ever got an equivalent patch though.

Yeah, Hisoutensoku's card system is quite fun IMO. Plus there's Utsuho. :V
Weather I don't mind, since it's completely controllable.  But yes, there was a no-weather patch for SWR long before Soku. :V
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Kayin on May 08, 2010, 06:11:11 AM
The fact that you'd even have to use a patch that removes a major element of the game to make it bearable = bad game.

And even with the patch, it still feels really dumbed down.

That = really bad game.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Ghaleon on May 08, 2010, 07:16:32 AM
I don't like fighting games. I mean I sorta occasionally wouldn't mind playing Guilty gear at a friend's house when he was anyway kinda. But I'd never actually buy it for myself.

Is there a point to trying the Touhou fighting games knowing that I've never really enjoyed a fighting game? It's not like I've only tried 2 or 3. probably more like 10 (I know most fighting game fans have probably tried way more and scoff at 10, but I think 10 is a fairly open minded amount for someone who hasn't really enjoyed anyway)

Fighting games I have tried (in case it matters which) are:
Street fighter 2, Street fighter alpha 2, Mortal combat 1 and 2, Guilty gear X, and XX (my 2nd fave), Soul blade X (my fave), Soul calibur 1,2,3 (soul blade x was better, these are merely meh), Toshinden battle arena, uhh...maybe a couple more. Don't remember.

I mean I hear that the touhou fighting games are "danmaku fighting games", does that make it different enough so that I have a decent chance of really enjoying it?

Sorry if that seems somewhat off topic, it's KINDA on topic, but..well I also feel bad making a new topic asking such a question solely for myself when I already did so earlier today >=P.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Formless God on May 08, 2010, 07:46:48 AM
No. I disgusted the three fightans (especially IaMP). You are probably not going to enjoy them either.
Title: Re: Things you Hate/Like about Touhou
Post by: Barrakketh on May 08, 2010, 07:58:43 AM
I don't like fighting games. I mean I sorta occasionally wouldn't mind playing Guilty gear at a friend's house when he was anyway kinda. But I'd never actually buy it for myself.

Is there a point to trying the Touhou fighting games knowing that I've never really enjoyed a fighting game? It's not like I've only tried 2 or 3. probably more like 10 (I know most fighting game fans have probably tried way more and scoff at 10, but I think 10 is a fairly open minded amount for someone who hasn't really enjoyed anyway)

Fighting games I have tried (in case it matters which) are:
Street fighter 2, Street fighter alpha 2, Mortal combat 1 and 2, Guilty gear X, and XX (my 2nd fave), Soul blade X (my fave), Soul calibur 1,2,3 (soul blade x was better, these are merely meh), Toshinden battle arena, uhh...maybe a couple more. Don't remember.

I mean I hear that the touhou fighting games are "danmaku fighting games", does that make it different enough so that I have a decent chance of really enjoying it?

Sorry if that seems somewhat off topic, it's KINDA on topic, but..well I also feel bad making a new topic asking such a question solely for myself when I already did so earlier today >=P.
Well, the story mode fights play out quite differently than they do in a versus match.  The enemy spell cards are more like they are in the SHMUPs, where the attacks are a specific pattern and you have to work out a strategy to beat them.  In a versus match they're basically like supers/ultras.  Watch a lunatic 1cc if that still isn't clear.

Also, it's entirely possible to spam the fuck out of your projectiles and win fights like that, even on lunatic.  This guy (http://www.youtube.com/user/RagnarokDS) has videos of him doing exactly that with practically every character.

Danmaku is a form of pressure, and you can graze projectiles.  In the end, I don't think it'll be that much different for you if go the versus route.  You might enjoy the story mode, though.