Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Akyu's Arcade => Topic started by: Bananamatic on March 21, 2010, 06:12:20 PM

Title: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 21, 2010, 06:12:20 PM: ITT we post our opinions about this game.

I accidentally broke the disc a year ago(I take good care of my games, it was an unfortunate accident) and even though I didn't really mind at the time(because I was stuck with gil farming), but now I've decided to get it again...and I've been thinking about this game.

Figured out that it's probably the best FF so far.

I'm not really a story based gamer, but the story seemed cool enough to atleast pay attention to the cutscenes and the addition of skip scene on second and later playthroughs is a big plus compared to Final ~~Cutscene~~ Fantasy X.

The gameplay was pretty much perfect.
The only flaw was the spell queue, where there can be only a certain amount of actions at once.

I've seen complaints about "not doing anything" and "beating bosses without pressing anything"
What's bad about that again? It's not an action RPG, being able to customize your own AI compared to constant scrolling through menus is a good thing.

The game required a lot of gil grinding, but it's actually fast and fun once you figure out how - I was also frustrated at times(and fell asleep once chaining skeletons at the Paramina Rift...good times), but some early methods are much better than others.
Not to mention that mass spawning enemies to slaughter them with AoE is actually fun grinding which doesn't take long at all. I wish I knew about the Fira Jelly method earlier...

The boss bars were also cool - I like being able to see their HP drop without constant scanning.

But the fact that the battlefield and field you explore are the same thing - no more battle loading, no more hoping you escape or take 1 minute holding the shoulder buttons - sure, seeing 13'd huge plains with big enemies makes you drool, but the battle loading once you touch one kills it.

The marks also caught me off guard a lot - I remember walking around wondering where could it be, then suddenly a huge toad jumped out of nowhere. Made me almost need new pants.
Or the Behemoth King - you have to find him on a huge snowy plain with poor vision, the mist reflecting everything and you wonder whether this is a building or just another reflection - then you turn around - and he was right behind me, being 10x larger than my characters.

It's also the most open FF IMO - you can break the game before anything story based happens(Dustia, easy lv20 in an hour, early powerful weapons which aren't too hard to get), many cities and dungeons can be visited several dozen hours before you would reach them during the story.
Or you can play it normally, of course.

It's also the only FF capable of kicking my ass on a regular playthrough.
I remember getting completely destroyed by some marks...

What about you? :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: ふねん1 on March 21, 2010, 08:00:00 PM: ^ Whereas you liked the gameplay, I hated it. The gambit system was not intuitive to me, nor did the battles feel that exciting. And yes, I do know that their "special moves" (don't remember what they're supposed to be called in this game) looked flashy. But when I know something was made flashy just for the sake of being flashy, I can never appreciate it that much.

This is preference, but I'm not especially fond of battles that take place in the overworld, more because I'm used to battles taking place in separate screens. And in my opinion, menu systems usually work well anyway.

As for the story, it didn't interest me as much as other titles. It hardly felt like there were any real twists in the story, and looking back, I'm not even sure any of the characters (playable or not) stick out as memorable.

And let's not forget the bland music. Too bad Nobuo wasn't there.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Matsuri on March 21, 2010, 10:43:17 PM: Bored the hell out of me, and I don't say that often about Final Fantasy titles.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Aisha on March 21, 2010, 10:52:46 PM: I loved the battle system and the marks, but thought the story, characters, and music were unremarkable. I got up to the final boss, did all of the side quest shit, and put the game down.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Cadmas on March 21, 2010, 11:24:38 PM: The marks were and battle board were probably the best thing about this game.

Now the stuff I didn't like...

The battle system wasn't terrible, but it just didn't belong in a finally fantasy game.
I don't know why after getting turn based battle perfect in 10 that they decided to throw it out.
The gambit and running around to fight monsters on a map should be in a game for a different franchise not FF.
Give me back my random battle system.

The boss battles weren't all easy. Towards the start of the game there were some difficult ones.
The first magistrate guy you fight, that forest dragon thing in the elf forest, but at the end everything ended up tank n spank thanks to the shield block skill. There were some gimmicks that made other battles interesting like not being able to use magick or melee. But overall there wasn't much depth to the bosses. You'd kill them and that was it and I would be like, "that was a boss?"

Music was a let down. I can't recall one tune from the game.
Other than the victory fanfare you got to hear sometimes.

Story was pretty much nothing more than Star Wars.
As I play JRPGs their story lines start to become really cliche.
It takes a bit to impress me and FF12 didn't do it.

For the characters. Their customs were fine, but their faces made them look like sunburned raccoons.
I never got emotionally involved with any of the characters. I didn't care if any of them died or not.
The two guys I did like end up dying.
The knight guy you get on the airship Shiva and the pirate with the pink pants

Fran was the most emotionless thing I have ever seen. I've seen androids with more emotion.

The summons were absolutely useless. I would never use them over my mist attacks which murdered most bosses.

And that's my FF12 rant. What an eye blister.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 22, 2010, 12:34:32 AM: Well, I've heard people calling it "Vagrant Story 2"(and yeah, I love VS) rather than a FF game.

Somehow, I liked the music better than most FFs. Especially thanks to the lack of the regular battle theme which gets old rather fast, and the boss theme is simply amazing.

No idea why people don't like the final boss theme either. Different opinions I guess.

And yeah, Vaan's model is kind of horrible. He's rather unevenly tanned and looks like a monkey overall :V
Fran's ass also got boring rather fast.

The quickenings got rather boring too with the 1 hour long sequences and summons which died way too fast.
But on the bright side, it encourages normal combat compared to some of 10's boss solutions where you pre-charged your overdrives and summon rushed the boss to oblivion or aura+meltdown gamebreaking in 8.

Can't remember one game where Square got limits correctly - 7 had them overpowered, 8 had them overpowered AND spammable, 9's were basically boss breakers and 10's were either useless or overshadowed by Quick Hit.
10-2 dumped them altogether which is a good thing. Best random battle combat system by far with chaining and all.

12 had them overpowered from the beginning, then suddenly from one boss they got useless.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: WHMZakeri on March 22, 2010, 05:26:12 AM: As one of those who would consider themselves a fan of story telling and how the plot affects the characters, I can honestly tell you I can't get myself into this story. I don't know what it is, but every time someone in game opened their mouth, I just tuned out. I can't even get myself out of the intro anymore because of this.

I was actually able to connect with Vaan as the main character of the story. I mean he was never once relevant to what was going on in the story at all, and neither was I.

I think it largely has to do with the fact that the only two characters who I don't hate are Larsa and Penelo, and of the two, only Larsa do I think is sort of awesome. Yes, I admit I hate Balthier. You can take your leading man quote and stick it.

And Final complaint: Why were we only allowed to use Human characters (Barring a playboy bunny)? I wanted my 3d Bangaa party member! (That one hunt you do with a Seeq was fun enough that I kept trying to fight it even though I needed to go grind somewhere else to beat it).

As for the gameplay, I like the idea of the gambit system, but I don't think it was properly executed. For one thing missing gambits made it feel like your characters were retards. The thing that annoyed me most about it was that it seems like they purposely made the battle menu tiny, convoluted, and overall clunky just to corral you into using gambits. I do agree that customizing your own party's AI is a pretty awesome idea, and it should be worked on and implemented in other games (Specifically in Action RPGS where you have more than one party member at a time.)

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of "Click and wait" games. Any game where a majority of battle is going up to an enemy, clicking once, and waiting longer than 5 seconds before there's a need to click again kind of feels like I'm falling away from the action, rather than pulled into it. This is the reason why I don't like MMORPGs, and this is the reason why I don't like RTSes either. Well, that and in the latter, I have no concept of Micromanaging.

Quote
10-2 dumped [limit breaks] altogether which is a good thing.
And in their place, they had Special Spheres. It was like suddenly turning yourself into a Boss Fight. They need to work that back in somehow.
Limit Breaks are suppose to be overpowered though, otherwise there's really no point. I think the best Limit Break System Square has ever used was the one in FFVI, where it was rare and barely even hinted at in the strategy guide no less. Every time you saw one (If you saw one) You were left with an Amazing Story about how you just Deus Ex Machina'd your way to victory.

Quote
Pirate in pink pants
Oh, I know him. I was surprised to find out he was a Character from FFXII when I got far enough to meet him.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Aisha on March 22, 2010, 05:37:27 AM: Quote from: Zakeri on March 22, 2010, 05:26:12 AM
I think the best Limit Break System Square has ever used was the one in FFVI, where it was rare and barely even hinted at in the strategy guide no less. Every time you saw one (If you saw one) You were left with an Amazing Story about how you just Deus Ex Machina'd your way to victory.

Haha. Yes. I remember one time I was playing the SNES version and Terra pulled out her desperation attack during the second boss fight in the game, doing something like 3300 damage. I was left speechless at the time, partly because I had no idea that desperation attacks existed. FFVIA increased their chance of occurring though; it was nice to finally see them all, years later.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: WHMZakeri on March 22, 2010, 05:42:35 AM: I remember one time I forgot to equip my party members for a boss fight. They ran in naked. I was doing pretty okay considering I had no chance to survive it. Finally Gau, my biggest hope, was knocked down and only Celes was left alive. The very next turn, Spin cut. I Immediately got everyone set up and ran back to the Airship to rest.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Garlyle on March 22, 2010, 06:32:52 AM: I don't think Gambits really led to a "Do Nothing" situation. Having played FFXII on full speed Active, I have to say, the game was hellishly hard as it was (Up until I was able to have Basch running around with Haste/Berserk/Shell/Protect/Bubble and the Zodiac Spear). Gambits just cut down on a lot of the small-time tasks so you could focus on making the important decisions.

Kind of like how XIII only has you controlling one party member - if you had to control all three in XIII, it would be ridiculously impossible, or they would have had to slow the battle system down significantly.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Rikter on March 22, 2010, 01:55:46 PM: I honestly cannot get into this game at all. All I could bring myself to do was get the first mark.

I might get bored enough to get into it during spring break next week.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on March 22, 2010, 07:26:02 PM: Level 27-ish by Dustia, hit about 33 farming Werewolves for the first Katana *-* Then I got the Zodiac Spear Early O_O Vaan went from hitting 500-700 to hitting 2900-3500. Never beat the game, see below for why.

The game had flaws, of course, but my biggest problem was I could never complete the 2nd last(I think) Mark, and thus couldn't fight the games biggest and most powerful foes(I always fight the strongest foes before beating a game), 1 of which beats out Disgaea games for an HP count! FYI, Disgaea games often hit 30+ Million HP and have a level cap of 9999 and no visible damage cap, that one Mark in FF12 has 50 Million HP, which is evil once you see the FF12 Damage Cap, 9999 dmg, and halfway into the fight, the cap is 6999 T-T

Fun game none-the-less, but the hate on this gem is severe and common :(
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 22, 2010, 07:30:26 PM: Quote from: MystearicaUtsuho on March 22, 2010, 07:26:02 PM
Level 27-ish by Dustia, hit about 33 farming Werewolves for the first Katana *-* Then I got the Zodiac Spear Early O_O Vaan went from hitting 500-700 to hitting 2900-3500. Never beat the game, see below for why.

The game had flaws, of course, but my biggest problem was I could never complete the 2nd last(I think) Mark, and thus couldn't fight the games biggest and most powerful foes(I always fight the strongest foes before beating a game), 1 of which beats out Disgaea games for an HP count! FYI, Disgaea games often hit 30+ Million HP and have a level cap of 9999 and no visible damage cap, that one Mark in FF12 has 50 Million HP, which is evil once you see the FF12 Damage Cap, 9999 dmg, and halfway into the fight, the cap is 6999 T-T

Fun game none-the-less, but the hate on this gem is severe and common :(
You don't enjoy challenges, do you :V

Actually, I fell asleep twice while fighting the 50m mark because it took me 8 hours . But it's possible in 2 with some serious preparation and 1 hour with the perfect strategy.

Just reordered this game, can't wait :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Widermelonz on March 22, 2010, 10:44:17 PM: I just popped this game in my PS2 right now and loaded up my file. I'm at this "Pharos" place. I have no recollection of how I got here or why I'm even here. I do remember the characters, however. I actually like most of the characters in this game.

So I'm at Pharos and my party members are around level 53. Vaan is at level 14 and Fran is at 13. Of the things that I do remember, I remember that I hated Vaan.

Well, I'm off to replay this game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: WHMZakeri on March 23, 2010, 12:03:42 AM: If at any given moment, your Vaan is not at least level 30 AND you have other characters, you are doing it wrong.

I don't blame you though, since FFXII's definition of doing it wrong is not following every single guide on gamefaqs.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Cadmas on March 23, 2010, 12:14:42 AM: Bah FF main characters are always uninspiring. Vann, Tidus, Cloud...

They are just so lame I rarely keep them in my party.
The only reason I keep Vann in my main line up was because he matched Ashe and Penelo.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Rikter on March 23, 2010, 01:55:14 AM: So I actually turned this on and I got killed horribly by this... Wolf thing.

I also have no clue where to go.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Widermelonz on March 23, 2010, 02:52:07 AM: Quote from: Zakeri on March 23, 2010, 12:03:42 AM
If at any given moment, your Vaan is not at least level 30 AND you have other characters, you are doing it wrong.

I don't blame you though, since FFXII's definition of doing it wrong is not following every single guide on gamefaqs.

Then I guess the way that I've been playing it is VERY wrong, considering that I have not once used a guide when I was playing this game. :V

Maybe I should start using Gamefaqs once I start up a new save.

Oh wow, Split Infinity's Walkthrough on Gamefaqs is 4mb. 4 megabytes of just words.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on March 23, 2010, 03:09:32 PM: Quote from: Bananamatic on March 22, 2010, 07:30:26 PM
You don't enjoy challenges, do you :V

Hey, I got to the Final Dungeon normally. The Dustia bit and all that was on my run that I had PLANNED on beating all the ~~Ultimate~~ Marks on.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: WHMZakeri on March 23, 2010, 04:26:27 PM: Quote from: Watermelonz on March 23, 2010, 02:52:07 AM
Then I guess the way that I've been playing it is VERY wrong, considering that I have not once used a guide when I was playing this game. :V

Maybe I should start using Gamefaqs once I start up a new save.

Oh wow, Split Infinity's Walkthrough on Gamefaqs is 4mb. 4 megabytes of just words.

Seriously, there are lots of little tricks that Squeenix seems to play on whoever decided to play this game. The four nondescrept chests you should never open is just the first example. Here's another: Everyone has a different firing speed with the gun and the bow'n'arrow. Some are faster than others, which leads to different results in DPS. Guess which two people you should never, ever, ever give a gun and a bow to respectively?

Pro tip: Both of their "trademark", Starting weapons are the Gun and the Bow, respectively.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 23, 2010, 04:30:13 PM: Isn't Penelo also a little slower with a gun?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Sen on March 23, 2010, 07:25:16 PM: Quote from: Watermelonz on March 23, 2010, 02:52:07 AM
Oh wow, Split Infinity's Walkthrough on Gamefaqs is 4mb. 4 megabytes of just words.

You've never read a SplitInfinity guide before, have you :V

Anyway, never played XII, but watched my brother play it quite a lot. I just never really had any interest in playing it, and the only characters who didn't annoy me were Penelo and Balthier. Vaan is also the most irritating FF main character ever.

I still think FFX-2 was the best.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 23, 2010, 07:32:42 PM: Quote from: SenSageUn on March 23, 2010, 07:25:16 PM
I still think FFX-2 was the best.
Second best to XII IMO.

There was only one uber class, every single one has uses and without many, many NG+ including Via Infinito, you can't max everything.

The uber bosses also require strategy, lv80 and lv infinity bosses are near impossible to bruteforce.

Also, best use of ATB period. Stronger actions require more charge time, makes sense. Chaining also allowed some fun and strong combos.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Widermelonz on March 24, 2010, 07:04:41 AM: Quote from: SenSageUn on March 23, 2010, 07:25:16 PM
You've never read a SplitInfinity guide before, have you :V

Anyway, never played XII, but watched my brother play it quite a lot. I just never really had any interest in playing it, and the only characters who didn't annoy me were Penelo and Balthier. Vaan is also the most irritating FF main character ever.

I've used Split Infinity's guide for FFX and X-2. Their file sizes were 1973KB (combining the two parts) and 1599KB, respectively; whereas his FFXII one is at a staggering 4161KB. I don't think I've seen another guide larger than that. Man, I give props to him for his hard work. Must have taken quite a while to type that whole thing.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: trancehime on March 24, 2010, 11:16:27 AM: I personally played FFXII the way MystearicaUtsuho played it. That is, breaking the game almost right from the beginning. The Gladius from the Lindbur Wolf allows killing of Werewolves extremely early with copious usage of Quickenings, and the thing gets even easier once you farm up Kotetsu from the werewolves. This allows extremely fast and easy levelling. I only did it up to around mid 20s, but it's still very doable to continue blasting past 30 if you're patient. I got the Zodiac Spear also extremely early, and was able to plow through most of the game with it, as well as gaining accessibility to extremely powerful enemies as long as I maintained my health - thanks to the Gambit system, this was made possible. Deathbringers, Francescas and similar weapons were obtained before reaching Phon Coast, and the Tournesol was made before I took on Yiazmat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTNmT6f5398), the final mark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MviVmpuuaeY) in the game, boasting an insane amount of HP and at the minimum can take an hour to beat. In contrast, I beat the Hell Wyrm, a similar mark, which has around 5 times LESS HP in about 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 24, 2010, 01:32:02 PM: Hell Wyrm in 10 minutes? Using the Masamune low hp Decoy method I guess?

Took me an hour because I was only lv55 :V

also my copy just arrived
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: trancehime on March 24, 2010, 02:45:58 PM: Quote from: Bananamatic on March 24, 2010, 01:32:02 PM
Hell Wyrm in 10 minutes? Using the Masamune low hp Decoy method I guess?

Took me an hour because I was only lv55 :V

also my copy just arrived

Decoy+Reverse + Ultimate weapons barring Tournesol

Haste+Bravery
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 24, 2010, 03:31:29 PM: Quote from: TranceHimeKaidou on March 24, 2010, 02:45:58 PM
Decoy+Reverse + Ultimate weapons barring Tournesol

Haste+Bravery
No berserk/low HP for Adrenaline and higher combos?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on March 24, 2010, 03:34:52 PM: I used a similar method on some bosses, Haste, Bravery, Bubble, a skill that drains MP and puts HP at 10x of what you MP was, get back to 1 MP then use the skill again, Bersek on Vaan, Masamune(Vaan) or Zodiac Spear(Fran). Vaan and Fran hit pretty damn hard and a lot with this set-up. They of course have every Battle Lore and Adrenaline for even more damage >:D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: trancehime on March 24, 2010, 03:41:09 PM: Quote from: Bananamatic on March 24, 2010, 03:31:29 PM
No berserk/low HP for Adrenaline and higher combos?

Nah, I don't see it's necessary. I do pretty well without it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 24, 2010, 05:52:14 PM: In 10 minutes? Have you played IZJS or something? :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Reddyne on March 24, 2010, 07:55:14 PM: I have quite a history with the Final Fantasy series as a whole, and this one was rather disappointing.

The bad things were rather numerous and the regular complaints were spot on. Vaan and Penelo were out and out pointless characters. Gameplay felt like an MMO and could be fully automated. The plot was derivative and yet still managed to stagnate. The fun of using spells and summons was diminished. Sidequests were mostly boring. All in all, it just lacked the soul of a FF game. All of these factors have been done well in other FF games, but not this one.

The bright sides were small doses of goodness that unfortunately didn't outweigh the negatives. Hitoshi Sakamoto did a good job with the soundtrack and some songs in particular were quite good, although that only made me want a Vagrant Story sequel again. Gilgamesh (and his fight as a whole), Cid, and Balthier were great. Some side areas were a lot of fun to explore. Also, I loved giving my entire party the ability to steal, even if the spoils weren't great.

Still, with all the negatives, it's in my bottom third of FF games.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Widermelonz on March 25, 2010, 01:35:36 AM: About 25 hours into the game, and I've got Deathbringers for all my characters. Should I cheese the game and goes for Zodiac Spear? Just how powerful is it? My characters' levels are at high-20ish.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 25, 2010, 05:10:28 AM: Quote from: Watermelonz on March 25, 2010, 01:35:36 AM
About 25 hours into the game, and I've got Deathbringers for all my characters. Should I cheese the game and goes for Zodiac Spear? Just how powerful is it? My characters' levels are at high-20ish.
I'd say reset and play it normally :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: trancehime on March 25, 2010, 09:19:44 AM: Quote from: Watermelonz on March 25, 2010, 01:35:36 AM
About 25 hours into the game, and I've got Deathbringers for all my characters. Should I cheese the game and goes for Zodiac Spear? Just how powerful is it? My characters' levels are at high-20ish.

You can make a dash for it in the Necrohol of Nabudis if you have Protect/Shell. I'm assuming you beat the Bomb King, because you can't go to the area with Deathbringers until you get past that place.

Quote from: Bananamatic on March 25, 2010, 05:10:28 AM
I'd say reset and play it normally :V

I'd say play it however you want to play it :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 26, 2010, 08:59:32 PM: Quote from: Trance奴隷 on March 25, 2010, 09:19:44 AM
I'd say play it however you want to play it :V
uh

just reached Jahara on a normal run, party level 12-14.
No real problems, only grinded for gil twice(before Leviathan on Lhusu skeletons with Larsa, then chained Alraunes)

Hopefully Larsa will let me chain Panthers so I can get Jahara gear, rush Tiamat then Fira chain jellies with 2x LP.

Chaining anything before that is pretty shit tbh - the skeletons are the only ones which mass spawn but the fact that there are 2 kinds of them prevents any multiple bone fragment drops.

Alraunes are far apart and zoning is an ass, but it works the best.

EDIT: lol elder wyrm
took that bitch apart in 3 minutes with Jahara gear at lv22

what's so hard about him
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Rikter on March 28, 2010, 09:52:55 PM: So just how good is this Spear of the zodiac thing and how do I go about getting it? I heard you can screw up the process of getting it really early on if you don't know what youre doing.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 28, 2010, 10:40:54 PM: Quote from: Rikter Belmondo on March 28, 2010, 09:52:55 PM
So just how good is this Spear of the zodiac thing and how do I go about getting it? I heard you can screw up the process of getting it really early on if you don't know what youre doing.
150 attack(highest in the game), don't open 4 chests in the game:
1) chest right across Old Dalan's house
2) anything in the Rabanastre Palace(the kitchen where you pass the guards)
3) Nalbina Dungeons, the room where you get your equipment back
4) the 16 chests on the Phon Coast

If none of these are opened, you get it at the Necrohol of Nabudis in the room with lots of chests, closest row to the entrance to the room, second from the left. DON'T equip Diamond Armlet.

You can also get it extremely rarely at Henne Mines in the hidden area(Mindflayer beaten, 10 Espers controlled), or abuse the RNG like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ttyn6AZxqY

either way, if you have missed it, don't worry, the game is perfectly doable without it.

There are always Tournesol, Masamune+Genji Gloves(missable), Ultima Blade, Excalibur(for Hell Wyrm) and Yagyu Darkblade(for Yiazmat)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Wylfred on March 29, 2010, 12:03:59 AM: I think its a fine game. A little easy though. On my first play through I rushed the zodiac spear and finished the game at lvl 41. It could've been harder. The story was alright. Nothing spectacular but it was enough to not skip scenes. The gambit system was great I turned my two other characters besides vaan into heavy support characters so I only had more control of where my damage went.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Rikter on March 29, 2010, 01:30:11 PM: Okay I still don't like the system as much as a tradiotional FF game but now that i've gotten into it more its good. I reached the Mimic Queen this morning and I should be on track for the Zodiac Spear seeing as I kept all those chests closed.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Widermelonz on March 30, 2010, 12:37:12 AM: Hmm, for some reason Vaan doesn't seem that bad of a character anymore. I used to hate his gut, but now he's kinda alright. He seems more... mellow as the game progresses.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: trancehime on March 30, 2010, 12:39:07 AM: Quote from: Wylfred 無毀なる湖光 on March 29, 2010, 12:03:59 AM
I think its a fine game. A little easy though. On my first play through I rushed the zodiac spear and finished the game at lvl 41. It could've been harder. The story was alright. Nothing spectacular but it was enough to not skip scenes. The gambit system was great I turned my two other characters besides vaan into heavy support characters so I only had more control of where my damage went.

Well if you get the Zodiac Spear over 90% of the game becomes instantly trivial!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 30, 2010, 02:15:55 AM: For extra breakage, Barheim Passage and Steal :V

Fell asleep at 5 PM yesterday while chaining Mirrorknights :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on March 31, 2010, 02:21:43 AM: Quote from: Trance奴隷 on March 30, 2010, 12:39:07 AM
Well if you get the Zodiac Spear over 90% of the game becomes instantly trivial!

Not really. It's a grind to get strong enough to be able to reach it, and if your equips are as up-to-date as they can be, then it's just really powerful. Your not going to hit 9999 as soon as you equip it though, so it's not a massive game breaker, closer to an Easy Modo due to the DPS rate boost.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: trancehime on March 31, 2010, 12:30:12 PM: Quote from: MystearicaUtsuho on March 31, 2010, 02:21:43 AM
Not really. It's a grind to get strong enough to be able to reach it, and if your equips are as up-to-date as they can be, then it's just really powerful. Your not going to hit 9999 as soon as you equip it though, so it's not a massive game breaker, closer to an Easy Modo due to the DPS rate boost.

I actually got my Zodiac Spear around Lv29 >_>;; I didn't grind as much as I could have grinded, and it made Bomb King very challenging, still beat him though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on March 31, 2010, 02:08:50 PM: Quote from: Trance奴隷 on March 31, 2010, 12:30:12 PM
got my Zodiac Spear around Lv29
o.O I couldn't get past Bomb King till the upper-30s.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: trancehime on March 31, 2010, 03:38:11 PM: Quote from: MystearicaUtsuho on March 31, 2010, 02:08:50 PM
o.O I couldn't get past Bomb King till the upper-30s.

Vaan was L30, everyone else was L28/29.
I abused the fact you could leave the room and come back in and fight him again
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 31, 2010, 04:22:24 PM: I fought Bomb King with Phon Coast equipments at lv25.

Gave up after 15 minutes and the 20th Renew. He got nowhere close to killing me though.

also I know about disease and crap, I'm just not a huge fan of status crippling vs bosses

lv35 at pharos atm, level doesn't matter at all
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on March 31, 2010, 04:23:11 PM: I fought Bomb King with Phon Coast equipments at lv25.

Gave up after 15 minutes and the 20th Renew. He got nowhere close to killing me though.

also I know about disease and crap, I'm just not a huge fan of status crippling vs bosses

lv35 at pharos atm, level doesn't matter at all

also what is so cool about infinite stealing from him

boring, benefits you only in one way, jellies offer gil+exp+LP
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 02, 2010, 05:38:36 AM: The enter-exit trick is cause of the Gate Crystal directly next to the entrance to the boss fight which lets you Quickening Spam if your good at it. Also lets you not have to worry about you MP. I only ever stole from Gilgy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Widermelonz on April 02, 2010, 06:35:41 AM: I found out that if I keep on killing the Bomb King's minions, he'll keep on summoning his little bombs and have no time the cast Renew. I beat him with a 29/28/28 party with reflect on.

I just got the Zodiac Spear and I gotta say, it's not that great. Sure, it's powerful, but not by much. I deal about 2k damage with Deathbringers and 2.4k with the Zodiac Spear. Not that big of a difference if you ask me.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 02, 2010, 06:50:47 AM: Where can you get Deathbringers early? Zalera place? I thought they were a late game buyable or sumthin like that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 02, 2010, 11:08:18 AM: Actually, I'm almost done(finished Gilgamesh and Ultima, only the 4 wyrms and Zodiark left) and ZS does much more for me than Ragnarok - berserked and with Bravery, ZS did 2-3x more than Ragnarok.

Am I the only one who found Gilgamesh 2 also rather easy? Chaos was much harder than him...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: trancehime on April 02, 2010, 11:29:50 AM: Quote from: MystearicaUtsuho on April 02, 2010, 06:50:47 AM
Where can you get Deathbringers early? Zalera place? I thought they were a late game buyable or sumthin like that.

You can steal a certain enemy from Barheim Passage. Which is Zalera place.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 02, 2010, 11:39:27 AM: ithuno iirc, it's one of these mimics
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Widermelonz on April 02, 2010, 01:10:59 PM: Yea and they're pretty easy to steal. It took me very little time to steal three of them, with Thief's Cuffs on.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 02, 2010, 01:31:20 PM: man I love the weather effects in this game

Ring Wyrm hunt, I was so relieved when I got back into the city because the sandstorm hurts your eyes
same for the subterra, almost no map and extremely dark

atleast this time I know how to properly get the black orbs, getting them 1 by 1 was an ass :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 04, 2010, 08:56:34 PM: > How do you go from the 1st Subterra floor to the 2nd?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 04, 2010, 11:12:40 PM: Insert black orbs into the daises, you have to insert an exact amount, or they all disappear.

Also, don't pick up little orbs, wait until you find the big one which contains 3x the orbs you didn't pick up.

Hell Wyrm took me 37 minutes. Now for Yiazmat...this is going to be fun >.>
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 05, 2010, 02:14:05 AM: Into the things that light up rooms? I did that, I put in the amount need for maximum brightness, 1 at a time.

Edit: Oh, and I pwned the Pheonix or w/e it was.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 05, 2010, 02:29:04 AM: yeah, then go to the elevator and pick the next level(penumbra>umbra>abyssal>unknown)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 05, 2010, 02:40:30 AM: Thing is, their is no option for a next level. Only to go back up.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 05, 2010, 02:43:12 AM: Have you filled all 4 pedestals until it gives no option to add more orbs? once you open a new floor, there is a short sound
Also, is Phoenix really beaten? :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 05, 2010, 02:46:07 AM: Well for Pheonix... I drained it's Health Gauge until it suffered Critical Existance Failure, unless you fight it twice on the same floor.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 05, 2010, 02:47:17 AM: Nope, that should be all :V
Have you accepted the Shadowseer hunt? Might be required, probably not
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 05, 2010, 02:48:30 AM: It's accepted all right... I think... maybe... IDK... I haven't played in months, I can't remember specifically :colonveeplusalpha:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 05, 2010, 02:49:31 AM: Recheck all pedestals and the Seer hunt. Nothing else I can think of.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: MysTeariousYukari on April 05, 2010, 02:57:46 AM: I'll do that, next time I toss FF12 into my beloved PS2. Subterra is great, the enemies are vicious and the floor doesn't afraid of anything :colonveeplusalpha:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: lumber_of_the_beast on April 26, 2010, 06:47:26 AM: Bumping to ask: How am I supposed to figure out where the hell I should go on the License Grid? All I've got so far is that Penelo and Ashe are the best casters, and Balthier and Basch shouldn't be used for casting at all.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 26, 2010, 02:43:42 PM: Quote from: lumber_of_the_beast on April 26, 2010, 06:47:26 AM
Bumping to ask: How am I supposed to figure out where the hell I should go on the License Grid? All I've got so far is that Penelo and Ashe are the best casters, and Balthier and Basch shouldn't be used for casting at all.
You can use anyone for everything, but I'd recommend you to focus 4 chars on attacking, while 2 are spellcasters.

Fran is a little bad at...everything, so feel free to leave her out.
I'd say Penelo and Ashe for magic(get 3 quickenings for them first and don't get any for anyone else, as they benefit from the 200/300% MP while others do not) and the other 3 for attacking...but if you want to use Fran, use her for magic and Ashe for attacking.

For spellcasters, obviously go for staves and mystic armor(possibly Main Gauche+a good shield for really high evasion), while the attackers should go for light armor until you can buy Shielded Armor, then go heavy all the way.

As for weapons, some weapons are slower, some are faster, and some use more than STR.

Only STR weapons: Greatswords(later on, but faster than shortswords for some reason), Poles(use Magic Defence instead of Defence, high evasion), Spears(some of the fastest weapons out there) and Shortswords(for some reason, they are seriously slow)
By far the easiest to do high damage with, just slap on Heavy Armor and go kill stuff.

STR+AGI: Daggers(fastest, I'd say that only Main Gauche is worth it for the godly evasion), Ninja Swords(fast, but they are only Dark+weak and 2 handed), Bows(slow, but long range)
Use a Cat Ear Hood to greatly boost the damage of these 3 weapon types.

Other:
Guns are by far the slowest, but ignore defence and your stats - the attack is only decided by the ammo and gun's power.
Katanas are STR+Magic based.

The other weapons are either gimmicky, random, or useless. Don't bother. Oh and rods suck, go with staves.

I'd say avoid shortswords and bows, as they are too slow.
I don't like guns, but you might like them.
Go with poles and spears, then later on use greatswords or mix it up if you want. Pure STR weapons are really the best in the maingame, except for some elemental stuff(Muramasa, Gladius)

Use Berserk. A lot. It gives a huge attack AND speed boost. Berserk 2, sit in the back with your caster throwing support spells and you shouldn't have problems(especially with an evasive setup). Even the game considers it as a positive status...probably the most positive one of them all.

As for your casters, early on they have little MP and spells aren't exactly excellent either.
You might want to ignore the attack spells altogether, as they are slow and Berserk outclasses them at no MP cost.
I haven't really used Protect, Shell and Haste either.
Obviously get Berserk, Esuna, Cura/ga/ja, Raise/Arise, Float...maybe Fira as Jellies are easy and fun chaining for lots of LP and gil.

License board - don't get unnecessary equipment licenses - if you don't have it, don't get it.
Focus your mages on magic based augments and rush 3 quickenings, as having 3x more MP is invaluable. You might want to get Berserk for your attackers and set it as a Self gambit to save MP. Ignore the rest of the spells and get quickenings after both mages get all 3 of them, then abuse Syphon to drain their MP for yourself.

Unlike the Sphere Grid, you can't screw up. Get 6 Golden Amulets and never put them away. LP is really easy to get. Just remember, augments first, then licenses for the equipment/spells you need.

Technicks...found them mostly useless too.
Steal is obtained by default, definitely get Libra...and ignore the rest. I find Charge overrated and the rest is gimmicky crap.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: チソウ　タイゼン on April 27, 2010, 01:06:46 AM: I FREAKING LOVE EFF EFF EKS-EEH

It's my favorite Final Fantasy so far. 13 is failing to blow itself out of the water like 12 did.
I was thiiiiiiiiiiiis close to beating Yiazmat. Now it's borderline impossible for me to and I'm super angry.
Everybody is level 62.
I beat the final boss at 43. And I almost got the Tournesol!
I filled up like 1100 License tiles out of 1300~ have awesome equips~

...I'm so upset that I'm returning it to my friend tomorrow.
I've had it for 5 months (144:45:40)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Zengeku on April 27, 2010, 11:15:34 AM: I bought this game back when it was new as a biased FF-fan and loved it. Looked at it now its eternally boring and lacking the awesomeness the series used to have.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 27, 2010, 01:21:19 PM: Quote from: Zengeku the Viking on April 27, 2010, 11:15:34 AM
Looked at it now its eternally boring and lacking the awesomeness the series used to have.
Explain :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Zengeku on April 27, 2010, 05:37:47 PM: Quote from: Bananamatic on April 27, 2010, 01:21:19 PM
Explain :V

Uh yeah, the Final Fantasy series is in my opinion a series that has fallen from its prime. The last good installment in the series was Final Fantasy X-2. Final Fantasy XIII isn't really bad but i have just reached Chapter 11 (i think) which means that the game becomes less linear and gives you a crapload of sidequests to undertake. Now, the problem is that these sidequests aren't very interesting to play and the completionist inside me won't proceed with the game storyline before the optional stuff is out of the way. :(

Nevermind that though. Final Fantasy XII have some of the most boring gameplay i have ever experienced. Your gambits will basically play the game for you and if you don't use the gambits it will become an annoyance to have to input all those commands because you will be inputting a lot of commands if you are to work with same efficiency as the gambit system.

Add to that the fact that the game is incredibly easy. And 90% of the time is spent running around fighting battles - not entertaining battles that is - and the rest of the time spent watching cutscenes.

The story is by far the best part of the game and it isn't even as good as the one in the previous installments in the franchise (except FFVIII, that doesn't make any sense at all)

Mr. Uematsu's absence is also very easily felt. He was an excellent composer that did a marvelous job of making even a boring part of the game decent. Like level grinding for instance. What a pain would that be if there wasn't a great piece of battle music for it to keep up your spirits? It would be like FFXII. That game doesn't even have battle music. Instead the Nam-Yensa (i think) Sandsea's orchestral awesomeness must suffice.

tl;dr:

Mindless gameplay
Bad music
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 27, 2010, 06:04:13 PM: Quote from: Zengeku the Viking on April 27, 2010, 05:37:47 PM
Your gambits will basically play the game for you and if you don't use the gambits it will become an annoyance to have to input all those commands because you will be inputting a lot of commands if you are to work with same efficiency as the gambit system.
It's a turn based game, there is zero difference between direct input and setting your battle preferences. I don't see a problem here :V

Also, I don't find Uematsu all that great(I wouldn't even notice that he is gone if no one told me)

Political story>typical JRPG love story
It's like the men are way too busy being manly warriors. No time for hour long kissing scenes.

Quote from: Zengeku the Viking on April 27, 2010, 05:37:47 PM
Add to that the fact that the game is incredibly easy.

CHALLENGE TIME

Give me 5 reasons excluding early gamebreaking how is this game easier than FF1 to X-2 and I'll 1cc UFO lunatic.
I found it easily the hardest FF yet(but that doesn't mean it's hard)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: チソウ　タイゼン on April 27, 2010, 06:50:59 PM: It has it's moments, but it's by far the easiest to crack. Some people do level 1 runs.
While other, more inept gamers, struggle with the easy as fudge final boss at level 60.
It all depends on the strategy you put out. When I first tried it, I told my party to attack. Attack attack attack, forever and always. Then when I started having problems 10 hours in I switched them out, and progress continued. Tell them to revive, high priority heal, Esuna, attack, low priority healing.
Also it isn't a bad idea to spam magicks and weaknesses. Ninja swords + Cat ear hood + Genji gear + Haste = Extreme damage on light elementals, such as Ultima, Diakon Entite, Yiazmat.
Also, the boss music rocks.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 27, 2010, 08:17:42 PM: Lv122333 runs are easy as the game is easy as hell to break.
Do the license point glitch vs Ba'Gamnan, make an Arcturus, get the Firefly, get Fomalhauts, game complete.

ATM I'm doing a dual character, half license board, extreme battle settings challenge...with some extra crap like no glitching/no sidequests/hunts/no early stuff/no Nihopalaoa.

The game is fun as hell to play with EBS as you have to scroll through the menus instead of using gambits...on fastest speed, in real time :V

Also, the power of the final boss is determined by the amount of espers you own.
The more you know :V
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Zengeku on April 27, 2010, 08:24:50 PM: Quote from: Bananamatic on April 27, 2010, 06:04:13 PM
It's a turn based game, there is zero difference between direct input and setting your battle preferences. I don't see a problem here :V

Well i see a problem. I don't want to have my game play itself for me. The only reason i'd want anyone to play a game for me is if it was a bad game i just wanted to see the story of.

Quote
Also, I don't find Uematsu all that great(I wouldn't even notice that he is gone if no one told me)

That's a matter of taste naturally. Personally i find Uematsu to be pretty darn good but if you don't, that's fine.

Quote
Political story>typical JRPG love story
It's like the men are way too busy being manly warriors. No time for hour long kissing scenes.

Well, too be honest. I don't have anything against the plot in FFXII. Its just the earlier ones (excluding 8) that works better for me. Besides, i don't remember that much kissing in the FF games actually. Its only 8 that revolves mainly around a love story iirc while the others are much more "save the world from evil man"-oriented. There is one kissing scene from FFX though. That's hard to forget. Wonder how they managed to breathe underwater for so long...

Quote
CHALLENGE TIME

Give me 5 reasons excluding early gamebreaking how is this game easier than FF1 to X-2 and I'll 1cc UFO lunatic.
I found it easily the hardest FF yet(but that doesn't mean it's hard)

Dammit, you gotta ask for 5? Well, i can't really answer that question. Maybe its because the gambits will handle everything for you. You are right, the entire series is actually pretty easy. Final Fantasy IX i would say is harder though because you want to steal all the items from the boss encounters.

I suppose my main problem with the lack of challenge in the game is because i don't find the battle system very good like with the older FF games.

And FF3 is also harder. No savepoints in dungeons and bosses that might spam super moves.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: チソウ　タイゼン on April 27, 2010, 09:04:53 PM: Oh, what?! The number of Espers...?
I beat him at Lv43 with 6 espers. Now that I have 11...?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 27, 2010, 09:08:24 PM: Quote from: Mister Sanity on April 27, 2010, 09:04:53 PM
Oh, what?! The number of Espers...?
I beat him at Lv43 with 6 espers. Now that I have 11...?
He'll do much more damage...around double.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: チソウ　タイゼン on April 27, 2010, 10:44:16 PM: So 3,000 then? That's easier, actually.
Last time he did ~1,800 / 2,200 HP. Now he'll be doing ~3,000 / 8,000.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: lmagus on April 27, 2010, 10:54:56 PM: I've only played one hard Final Fantasy and that was FF5 when I played it for the first time with no FAQs or anything ages ago.

That game was a nightmare.

I played it last month and it was easy as pie when you know which jobs and skills to have for each boss x_x

FFXII is one of the best games in the series (with Tactics, V and IX).

My favourite soundtrack in the series is from Tactics, and hey, who does it?

Final Fantasy Tactics Original Soundtrack: Soundtrack by Hitoshi Sakimoto & Masaharu Iwata
Final Fantasy XII Original Soundtrack: Studio album by Hitoshi Sakimoto

So yeah... I find the music pretty good because it's so similar.

I wish I had more time to play FFT again =(
Title: Re: Final Fantasy XII
Post by: Bananamatic on April 28, 2010, 04:10:38 AM: Quote from: Mister Sanity on April 27, 2010, 10:44:16 PM
So 3,000 then? That's easier, actually.
Last time he did ~1,800 / 2,200 HP. Now he'll be doing ~3,000 / 8,000.
With only storyline espers, he did around 700-1000 damage with spells and regular attacks and 2000 at most with Teraflare. With all 13 espers, Teraflare hit high 5000s.