Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Ghaleon on February 04, 2010, 10:20:10 PM

Title: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Ghaleon on February 04, 2010, 10:20:10 PM
Ok coming up with a title for what I want is really hard, shoot me >=P.

Anyway, in the past, there have been several spellcards that for some reason or another, I could just NEVER beat, they were stupid hard for me. They weren't neccesarily spellcards that are SUPPOSED to be crazy hard (like lunatic scarlet meister, or whatever), but are just cards that, might as well have been lunatic scarlet meister, and you would have had roughly the same chance of actually succeeding (which is about 0%). I'm curious to know what all of your shameful stories are in regards to this.

Also feel free to put in the names of any spellcards that used to be easy for you, that are now wtfhard.


For me:
hard cards turned easy:
Hong's Selaginella 9 (hard). I could never beat this on hard, I even spellcapped hard scarlet gensokyo and scarlet meister before I could cap this. Now it's a joke.. Oddly enough, I capped lunatic's version on my first (and second, and 3rd, then I stopped counting) try.

Hong's Colorful Sign "Colorful Light Chaotic Dance" : This one would always get me, now it's like her easiest card, durr.

Sakuya's Illusional Misdirection: I don't even know why this was hard. Now I kill myself by beating it too early and screwing myself with the trash afterwards.

Remi's Dark Sign "Scarlet Netherworld" ...Ok it's not easy sitll. But I have a better chance of capping scarlet gensokyo on lunatic, than I do capping this on normal, no I'm not exagerating. WTF

Remi's God Art "Vampire Illusion": Seems so easy now, just stay put, and move up thru gaps before they become walls, then go back down, simple.

Moon Sign "Silent Selene": easy
Five Elements Sign "Philosopher's Stone": also easy,

Noisy Funeral "Stygian Riverside: Just seems like streaming almost now.
Deva God Sword "Components of Konpaku": I don't even know why this was hard, it's like her easiest card!

Kaggy: Divine Treasure "Hourai Jewel -Dreamlike Paradise/rainbow danmaku": Ok I didn't know it was simple streaming, now I do, now it's easy.

Nitori: Kappa "Monster Cucumber": Truth is, I still suck at this one, badly.
         Kappa "Exteeeending Aaaaarm" : Yup, suck at t his one too.

Native God "Seven Stones and Seven Trees": I have no idea why I found this so hard before...

______________________________________________________________________________________

Easy cards that I now suddenly suck at!:
Aya: Crossroad Sign "Saruta Cross" I dunno, I always derp up and do something stupid now.
Bad Luck Sign "Biorhythm of the Apotropaic God" : I never got killed by tihs ever, now I screw it up somehow every time, wtf.

ALL of Keine's extra stage cards. I never ever got owned by them, now I can't cap ANY of them. ARGH!
Illusion Ghost "Jack the Ludo Bile": Sakuya's easiest spellcard is now her hardest for me for some reason. Now I always smack into her non-knife bullets for some reason. Like they are so friggin' huge, and I actually FAIL TO SEE THEM as I look for the knife opening.

Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Serela on February 04, 2010, 10:24:15 PM
Eternal Meek on Lunatic. Used to be impossible for me on Normal when I first started, now the Lunatic one is just plain fun and I usually cap it~<3
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Helion on February 04, 2010, 10:27:39 PM
Cirno shotgun, Bad luck charm "broken charm of protection".
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Drake on February 04, 2010, 10:28:24 PM
Eternal Meek Lunatic is easier than Normal. You can't nab the safespot on Normal :3
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Serela on February 04, 2010, 10:30:06 PM
Eternal Meek Lunatic is easier than Normal. You can't nab the safespot on Normal :3
Safespots are for wimps >:
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Azinth on February 04, 2010, 10:40:11 PM
Safespots are for wimps >:

Or scorerunners. :V


I once thought that Princess Tenko was the most brutal bullet pattern I would ever face and couldn't imagine anything possibly being harder.  Ah, good times~
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Sapz on February 04, 2010, 10:42:45 PM
Total Purification. This is still the hardest card in IN for me. :V
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on February 04, 2010, 11:11:48 PM
Everything in StB except for level 10 and Seamless Ceiling. I look back on those and I go "... oh how did I find that hard, ever?"

On the other side of the spectrum, I used to be able to cap Illusionary Dominance no problem, but now I can't last more than a few seconds against it. :(
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Iryan on February 04, 2010, 11:16:39 PM
When I had just been playing for a couple of weeks and was proud to have unlocked MoF extra stage, it took me ~ 30 tries on that card to realize one can misdirect the bubble cluster during Party Start.

It went from "almost impossible" to "man is this easy..."  :V
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Turtlesaur on February 04, 2010, 11:19:28 PM
Hollow Giant "Woo" turned from a 1/35 chainbombing run killer to a 18/59 fairly consistent capture with no change in strategy.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Zetzumarshen on February 04, 2010, 11:29:04 PM
Quote
safespot

Oh yes, risking 8 lives for 10k grazes on Ichirin's opener is not that great. Or when you deliberately reduced your life into 2 when entering stage 6 EoSD.
...
It is just like bombing the hard part, please spare me :(

OT :
- Everything Yuyuko throws at you except Resurrection Butterfly.
- Virtue of Wind God. When you played a certain spellcard for +100 hours you will know everything about that card.
- Misdirection. After watching some replays, I magically know the route and how the kunai will behave.

That's all for now I think.

 
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Bananamatic on February 04, 2010, 11:29:41 PM
Rainbow Wind Chime. Normal.

Also Misdirection. Normal. When I already 1cc'd Hard.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: theshirn on February 04, 2010, 11:30:11 PM
Fujiyama Volcano.  Used to shred me.  Used to. 8)
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: nintendonut888 on February 04, 2010, 11:51:46 PM
Scarlet Gensokyo. I'm not saying it's easy, but back in the day I was so scared shitless by it I held my breath every time the bubble bullets passed me by.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Lord Scalgon on February 05, 2010, 01:10:49 AM
Madly Dance on Medoteko Lunatic.  It's very intimidating at first, but if you know what you're doing, it's a complete joke.  As of now, I have a 5 in 1 capture ratio in that spell card.

Really, once that spell card begins, from the center, move slightly to the left or right so the boss will position to that area.  Center positioning will make this card hard in my opinion.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: jc_foster on February 05, 2010, 01:30:19 AM
Letty's Undulation Ray. I used to freak out because of the wtfcurvylasers behind the bullets .....

.... then I realized the card is static. -.-
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: arcs on February 05, 2010, 01:31:32 AM
Kokkuri-san's Contract. The bullets don't move particularly fast, the gaps are fairly sizeable, yet I still manage to frequently ram something for no apparent reason. :L

In contrast, I've never really had trouble with Embers of Love, despite hearing tales of people being cornered/general doom.

And lastly, Halo "Karakasa Surprising Flash" (aka Kogasa's swirly Extra lasers) went from being painful to relatively straightforward - partly due to the whole move-with-the-lasers technique. I even managed to capture it once when the controls bugged, causing me to move up unless I was pressing down. No replay unfortunately - I lost the game of roulette, the constantly moving cursor landed on Quit when I tried to save it. :V
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Garlyle on February 05, 2010, 01:37:34 AM
Kogasa's second spellcard on Extra made me freak the hell out the first time I saw it.  ...It has since become EZ Modo, surprisingly.

Also Saruta Cross (Aya's first card in MoF).  I don't know why, but on Normal I always ended up having to bomb this.  I moved onto Hard seriously with MarisaA, and I've got a 100% capture ratio after about 7 fights.  100% on a Hard card on a stage 4 boss.  What the HELL.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Heartbeam on February 05, 2010, 01:57:17 AM
China's last two spells on Normal were expected bombs during the 1CC attempts and even a long while after that.  And then after finally getting over them for good with an expectant capture rate they still left a bad taste in memory...not really so these days.  Excellent fun.

Red Oni Blue Oni.  Back in the days of much trial and error I eventually had it planned to bomb that spell during every single attempt for the first Extra clear.  The history is crippled pretty badly at a 21/90 for Reimu B.

80% Reflowering stayed with a poor record for a long time until it was at 1/38 and I thought, "Okay, I want to get this spell down."  Didn't help for all those full runs where I sure as hell wasn't going to try capturing it unless that was the intent from the start.  29/83 now, so it's just okay but it did beat out the capture history for 10% Reflowering.

Similarly, Deadly Dance -Demon World-, Butterfly Delusion and Asura Sword Lunatic were 1/xx for a while until effort was put forth to examine them.

I haven't gotten over Aya's first spell on Normal yet.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Azure Lazuline on February 05, 2010, 02:37:20 AM
Hourai Doll. It used to be horrible and frustrating, but now I think it's one of the funnest spellcards ever. I still die on it a lot, but it's from random errors and clipdeaths rather than just not knowing what's going on.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Sen on February 05, 2010, 02:47:52 AM
Basically any time I go back down to Normal mode now, after getting used to Hard Mode. Exceptions are Illusionary Dominance (Aya's MoF survival), Flying Fantastica, and everything Murasa has.

Special mention to Yukari's Last Word from IN. I suppose it's kind of unfair, since I never went for a "normal" capture of the card, and instead went for a no-focus supergraze run from the very start, but my history on that card is 1/451 with the Scarlet Team, after which the history made me cry and I switched to Sakuya Solo (her history for that card is 1/45 :V). Nowadays I try it and it's incredibly easy, albeit very dull to play.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: ?q on February 05, 2010, 02:48:35 AM
At first I thought this topic was about cards that shouldn't be hard, but are.  I was about to talk about Hydro Camouflage and Broken Amulet.  Party Start is another card in that category, although it's much more painful because IT NEVER ENDS AND IT'S TERRIBLY DESIGNED

Quote
Everything in StB except for level 10 and Seamless Ceiling. I look back on those and I go "... oh how did I find that hard, ever?"
Also, this.  Albeit with a couple more exceptions (i.e. 9-1, SUPERMAN, Flandre's idiotic cards)
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Serela on February 05, 2010, 04:02:07 AM
Party Start is another card in that category, although it's much more painful because IT NEVER ENDS AND IT'S TERRIBLY DESIGNED
Move to the side of the screen along with the blue lasers to misdirect bubble bullets, move back into the center to dodge them. Bingo, Party Start trivialized :3

Although, it might help to also look at a video or replay since I realize it might not be incredibly easy to understand what I mean. But with a video+replay AND what I said, you should understand how to do the spellcard correctly.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Formless God on February 05, 2010, 05:57:44 AM
(protip : go above Suwacko)

- Elegant Sign "Spring Kyoto Dolls" : I'm scared of how easily I could capture this now.
- Stygian Riverside : See above.
- Rumbling Jikoku-ten (Chen's last spell card in Extra ?) : Again.
- Kokkuri-san's Contract and Boundary of Human and Youkai : I used to lose six to seven lives on those two (joke runs, of course).
- BoLaD : ... WHAT.

- Lady Ohgane's Fire and Trauma in Glimmering Depths : Not very consistently though.
- Secretly Inherited Art of Danmaku : I've done it at 75 fps. Twice :V
- Take-Minakata's Invocation.
- Mad Dance on Medoteko : Took quite a while to realize the strategy, but I can hardly see myself failing this again.
- Divining Husk : Highest capture rate out of all of Kanako's spell cards :V
- Kanako's last spell card in Extra.

- Flying Insect's Nest.
- BoWaP and Ten Evil Stars : That safespot ... that safespot.
- Hell's Tokamak.
- Danmaku Paranoia, Release of the Id and Super-Ego : I used to fail these as hard as I failed Kokkuri-san and BoHaY.

- Busy Rod.
- Aura of Justice.
- Superhuman "Byakuren Hijiri".
- Karakasa Surprise Slash.
- Rainbow UFO Invasion of Raep :V
- Grudge Bow.

There's also a few spells that went from loleasy to "how was that EASY ?"
- Mesh of Light and Darkness.
- Yasaka's Divine Wind.
- Sinkable Vortex.
- Complete Clarification.
- Guerrilla Typhoon ... sort of.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Krimmydoodle on February 05, 2010, 06:00:53 AM
If you -really- want to trivialize Party Start, sit above Suwako while she's talking to you.  I don't know at what moment during the cutscene it occurs, but the laser component of the card is actually aimed at your position at some point before the fight.  If you're above her at the right time, all of the lasers will be aimed up, and you don't even have to dodge them.

For more fun, stand to her side instead.  Then the card goes from trivial to impossible.

... goddamnit Suwakodamnit Formless God
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Sen on February 05, 2010, 07:11:27 AM
For more fun, stand to her side instead.  Then the card goes from trivial to impossible.

What? I just tried that, captured it on my first try doing that. It almost makes it easier. ???
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Krimmydoodle on February 05, 2010, 07:14:38 AM
Hm, could have sworn it was really, really stupid that way.  Then again, the last time I tried that was a looooong time ago.

I'd check it again for myself, but I reformatted my comp yesterday and haven't put Touhou on it yet.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Drake on February 05, 2010, 07:48:56 AM
The aim lock happens a few frames after the dialogue finishes.

SSU didn't do it right. What happens is that the lasers wall you into the side, where the mess of everything else totally mauls you. There's pretty much no escape.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Zetzumarshen on February 05, 2010, 08:39:41 AM
I really hope that Byakuren's cards can be listed here.  :'(
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Lybydose on February 05, 2010, 09:01:59 AM
First Pyramid.  This card is soooo easy.
Native God "Long-Arm and Long-Leg" used to be the hardest card EVER
Same with Seven Stones and Seven Trees
Trauma in the Glimmering Depths used to be an auto bomb because I had no idea what the hell was going on.  It's now the easiest card in MoF.
Possessed by Phoenix used to be all kinds of impossible for me.
"End of Imperishable Night -Dead of Night-" went 1/52 trying to capture this to unlock last words.  A couple weeks later I discovered I could capture this and the Lunatic version pretty much 100%.

...and then there are cards that went from loleasy to HOW DID I EVER CAPTURE THIS.

Like Native God "The Red Frog in the Fourth Year of the Houei Era."  The first time I captured this I was like "oh this is actually really easy" and then I pretty much captured it on every run.  Then suddenly one day I was terrible at this card and now I rarely capture it.
Scarlet Destiny - captured this on the 2nd try ever, having never seen it before. I haven't captured it since.
Medicine Sign "Galaxy in a Pot" - I figured out a way to capture this 100% of the time.  I don't remember what it was.



Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Helion on February 05, 2010, 10:42:30 AM
I only ever captured Selaginella 9 on hard the first time I played it. All others, I failed. I did the same with the lunatic version.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Sen on February 05, 2010, 05:10:19 PM
SSU didn't do it right. What happens is that the lasers wall you into the side, where the mess of everything else totally mauls you. There's pretty much no escape.
What am I doing wrong, again? I'm really curious about this. I just stay to the left of Suwako during the dialogue, then when the card starts, I just stay under her while the lasers aim harmlessly to the side. ???
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Doomsday on February 05, 2010, 11:52:41 PM
Border of Life and Death really. Im not sure if this counts though because it looks really hard, but it really isn't as crazy as it looks
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Lybydose on February 05, 2010, 11:57:12 PM
Border of Life and Death really. Im not sure if this counts though because it looks really hard, but it really isn't as crazy as it looks

Yeah but you can safespot that  :V

I suck at safespotting Izuna Gongen though.

Profound Field and Danmaku Field are probably the best examples of going from wtfimpossible to loleasy.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: CK Crash on February 06, 2010, 03:05:05 AM
Hard -> Easy:
Pretty much everything Chen/Ran/Yukari have. Most of MoF. Satori. Murasa's anchor cards.

Easy -> Hard:
IN stage 4, MoF Aya.

Hard -> Hard
Youmu, Yuugi, Rin, Utusho, and Shou. And all of StB dammit.

Granted, most of these are due to me switching from Normal to Hard as my default playing level recently.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Poochy.EXE on February 06, 2010, 04:04:47 AM
Hard --> Easy:
Soaring Guardian God - At first I was trying to focus on dodging the bullets using SakuyaA, so the spell card took forever to finish off, and I'd always end up having to bomb sooner or later. Then I switched shot types, stayed under Chen, and now it's over quickly and a total cinch.
Princess Tenko -Illusion- - Ditto, only it's mostly because the waves speed up.
Unilateral Contact - Exactly the same as Princess Tenko.
Kokkuri-san's Contact - Something clicked and now I can slip in between bullets with ease.
Yukari's Arcanum "Danmaku Bounded Field" - Realized it's static.
Past "Old History" - Realized the small bullets are static.
Reincarnation "Returning-Bridge Ichijo" - Not sure how or why on this one.
Hourai Doll - Something clicked, and now I can keep track of the round bullets and the yellow and red bullets at the same time. I used to run into one kind trying to dodge the other.
Kaguya's third Last Spell - I realized this was easier to sit on the bottom and dodge horizontally with minimal vertical movement.

Easy --> Hard:
Lost Soul's Village - Trying to stay under Yuyuko makes this one HARDER.
Perfect Cherry Blossom of Sumizome - The very first time I ever faced this card (on Easy), I was out of bombs, and by some crazy fluke, I managed to capture it. I think I had an adrenaline-induced bullet time effect. To date, that is the only time I've ever captured it, mostly 'cause now I always have bombs left, and I panic and bomb easily.

Easy --> Hard --> Easy:
Mesh of Light and Darkness - Due to the way the bullets move faster than the laser beams spawn. First time I faced this, I had a bad habit of retreating to the very bottom at the slightest sign of danger during a boss battle, which caused the bullets to pass me before the lasers fired. Then I broke that habit, which was good for most other spell cards, but I'd be just far up enough that the lasers an bullets would hit at the same time. Then I figured out WHY it suddenly became harder, retreated back down just for that card, and it's easy again.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Sen on February 06, 2010, 07:18:14 AM
Y'know, I've never figured out why people think [Princess Tenko] is a hard card. You figure the trick within ten seconds, afterwords it's just a matter of not spacing out and moving in time.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: ?q on February 06, 2010, 01:03:22 PM
Y'know, I've never figured out why people think [Princess Tenko] is a hard card. You figure the trick within ten seconds, afterwords it's just a matter of not spacing out and moving in time.
Flaw in Unforgiving Argument

That and if you do it wrong Ran will catch up to you and you resort to flailing.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Lybydose on February 06, 2010, 01:06:00 PM
Y'know, I've never figured out why people think [Princess Tenko] is a hard card. You figure the trick within ten seconds, afterwords it's just a matter of not spacing out and moving in time.

In my case it went from loleasy to HOW DID I EVER CAPTURE THIS to loleasy again.  The problem was that I started using a different method that is very effective on Yukari's Spiriting Away, but it's much harder to do on Tenko.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Jaimers on February 06, 2010, 04:43:31 PM
Kogasa's train card.
This went from completely impossible bullshit to fairly easy stuff. I've timed it out twice now without much problems.

"Life Spring Infinity"
This one became really easy once I found out that the lasers don't become solid until literally two seconds after they appear.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, "Terrifying Hypnotism" as well and Cat!Orin's opener on stage 5.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Poochy.EXE on February 07, 2010, 09:25:02 PM
Y'know, I've never figured out why people think [Princess Tenko] is a hard card. You figure the trick within ten seconds, afterwords it's just a matter of not spacing out and moving in time.
My original problem was that the card speeds up, and eventually it'd get to the point where I couldn't get across the screen before Ran moved. Solution? Switch to a higher-damage shot type, and sit under Ran before she fires for a split-second longer.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: P♂ zeal on February 10, 2010, 10:59:13 AM
Icicle Fall  :V


What? It used to give me problems.  :-\
Yeah, when I first started it would get me too.
Until I figured out that you can basically shotgon cirno the entire card, just dodge the yellow bullets and ignore the ice.

a lot of things have become trivial over my two years of playing XD
rainbow wind chime, most of sakuya's attacks*including eternal meek, I learned the safespot.
Ran overall is pretty easy for me now that I've beaten Yukari.
Satori's suika cards have become a lot simpler for me than they started out being.
Same with her alice cards.
although for some reason, Parsee's "Jealous of the kind and lovely" has started a trend of spawning the flowers on me, which is kind of RAGEQUIT material for me.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: orinrin on February 10, 2010, 11:23:21 AM
although for some reason, Parsee's "Jealous of the kind and lovely" has started a trend of spawning the flowers on me, which is kind of RAGEQUIT material for me.
This.  I move while focused and it always happens.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Bananamatic on February 10, 2010, 03:17:53 PM
possessed fairy lunatic
lure to left, move to right, shoot

do anything else, you're fucked
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Formless God on February 10, 2010, 03:23:01 PM
Kefit and I actually did something else :V

But yeah, that's certainly the safest method to approach the spell.
At 4.00 Power :V
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Sen on February 10, 2010, 03:23:36 PM
Karakasa Surprising Flash. Used to die like two or three times and bomb at least once on this card, now I have a near-100% consistency on it.


On the other hand, I am suddenly completely incapable of doing Guerilla Typhoon or Mokou's Phoenix Tail spellcard.
Title: Re: Hard spellcards that make you think "how was that hard"
Post by: Seian Verian on February 10, 2010, 05:46:27 PM
Resurrection Butterfly. Not sure why I used to have so much trouble... Lunatic version is still utterly insane though.