Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Daiyousei's Cold Storage => Topic started by: Letty Whiterock on January 30, 2010, 04:39:05 AM
-
Disclaimer: The views expressed in the following post do not necessarily represent those of the management of shrinemaiden.org or anyone involved with it other than myself. I am the messenger of my own message, so I claim full responsibility for what you're about to read.
------------
Listen up. I've had it up to here with this recent nonsense concerning IRC channels and staff idiocy, and so I'm taking my official stance here and now. I don't care what you think about what I have to say, but I'm saying it now. If you like it, awesome. If you agree, even better. If you hate me for it, you're entitled to that. If you want to leave, your hat and coat are by the door. If you want to be UsuallyDead and claim that I'm an incompetent, immature child, you are completely free to a biased, unreasonable idiot that is still incredibly sore about getting a stupid thread closed. That's all well and good to me. Anyways, let's get started.
Point #1: I want to address the main issue at hand: the IRC crisis.
This entire debacle started because of the problem I've been trying to address for months now: CPMC is the most prominent, most viewed, and most used board on the entire MotK forum. Why is this? It's because everyone has formed a nice little community to call home. Now, that's all well and good, and if you're trying to pretty much alienate the rest of the world and remain cozy in your little gated community, you're doing an excellent job. "Letty!" you exclaim. "How can you say such a thing!?" Quite simple, really.
Rule #2 of CPMC explicitly states, in detail, "don't post a thread here that can be posted somewhere else." Why do you think this rule is in effect? You don't know? I'll tell you.
---
#1: CPMC is a subforum.
You do realize that the CPMC community is actually part of a larger community, yes? The entire shrinemaiden.org community, to be exact. It also turns out that outside of CPMC is this vast world with various places to post about whatever you want. "But Letty!" you exclaim once again. "I want to make a thread that addresses just the people of CPMC!" That's fine! What exactly is stopping the people of CPMC from, say, leaving the board and going to another part of the board to check out your thread? It's actually pretty damn selfish to want to keep discussion in CPMC. Why, you ask?
#2: Access to CPMC is restricted.
Some of you tend to forget about that anyone with a "Newbie" title cannot post in CPMC. Arguably good discussion actually does happen in that board, discussion that various <10-post users could quite actively participate in. Maybe one of those threads will be the key to integrating into the community! It's certainly not going to happen with the "Post Your Desktop" thread. However, because, for the most part, the people of CPMC have no general interest in the rest of the board (outside of maybe N-Forza's Japan-shop thread), there is little in the way of expanding the community. When the majority of discussion by the people of a forum is occurring in a board you can't even post in, what the hell is the point of registering in the first place? No new active members, combined with the circlejerk of a clique community, is the first step on the road to stagnation. In keeping everything within CPMC, you're contributing nicely.
---
CPMC has become a tight-knit community, so tight-knit that you'd be perfectly happy with never having anyone new and the very thought of anything changing at all frightens and angers you. Thus, we come to the point of the IRC channel, #touhou-meido.
For quite some time, PPiRC has been the official home of MotK's IRC channel, #shrinemaiden. You can form your own opinions about what is good or bad about the channel. I don't really care, because that's not the point, and it really never was. The fact of the matter is that #shrinemaiden harbored the MotK community outside of the forum for the longest time, and TSO has done everything in his power to keep that running. (Sorry to interrupt, but I will be referring to TSO as "he/him" for the entirety of this post. So people like UncertainKitten, do not even bother responding to say that "he" is a "she" is a "he." Drop it.) Because TSO has full power over the server itself, it means that he can do pretty much anything he wants with it, and that includes doing things with that the MotK userbase would like as well. It can make your IRC experience even better, server-side. I'm pretty okay with that, actually, and really, you should be too.
The problem stems from the misconception that TSO's request to integrate #touhou-meido into PPiRC was a whining cry from someone who couldn't control people. I'm not sure how it came to that, but the entire idea was to simply put the channel on the server. Staff would remain the same, and the only power TSO would have is to pull the plug, which he would not do and you all know it. It would make access to #touhou-meido even easier for many, because TSO made a PPiRC web client for accessing #shrinemaiden that could no doubt be used to access #touhou-meido as well. That's pretty useful for people who are bound by certain restrictions and can't access the Dejatoons server via free clients like Mibbit, can't install an IRC client, or just don't understand how to work IRC at all.
Now, it should be made pretty clear that the only reason this came up is the CPMC community has taken it upon themselves to make #touhou-meido the official CPMC channel, and because CPMC is the biggest part of MotK at this point, that really makes it the official MotK channel by association. However, it has been said time and time again that this is not the case and should not be the case by our very own Pesco, the person in charge of it. In case you're unaware, here's an IRC log:
<Pesco> Let's go back to the beginning
<Pesco> AS Trance says
<Pesco> It's a place to do the RP of MeidoRPG
<AtyHime> it slowly incorporated the UGW elements, and then since many people from CPMC went to it, it became a conglomerate of people from CPMC talking about pretty much anything
<Pesco> It is NOT CPMC's channel
<YoseiOnmyoji> I like it the way it is now
<Pesco> It is NOT MotK's official channel
<AtyHime> Nobody and I mean nobody has declared it to be any official channel
<Pesco> Even though nobody declares it as such, it is being treated as such
<AtyHime> 23:55:44 (Pesco) Even though nobody declares it as such, it is being treated as such <-- this is the real issue
<Pesco> Despite my reminders to people not to do that
This is how the CPMC community and their use of the #touhou-meido channel is seen by the person running the thing. People are blatantly turning the channel into the CPMC channel, despite his wishes, and some people have even admitted to not coming to CPMC or even MotK as a whole anymore. CPMC is, either knowingly or unknowingly, attempting to break away from the rest of the forum, and the clique community within it has no intention of addressing it or stopping it.
A number of us have noticed this trend, and as a result, we are watching a community that we have come to love and have been with for quite some time trying to break itself apart and secede from the main forum. TSO's request to bring #touhou-meido to PPiRC was his attempt to try and facilitate the community as best he could and keep it from breaking away, not because he wants to be under his control but because he cares. He maintains this forum from further behind the scenes than anyone else and maintains a server entirely for the sake of the Maidens of the Kaleidoscope community, and he basically gave all of you an invitation that read "Hey, I like you guys. I'm paying for these things, so come on and use them to your hearts' content." That way, the thing that he keeps for you to use can still be used, and you don't have to deal with people like Link and Suzuran. Pretty nice deal, I think. Instead, he is met with animosity, and eventually, a bigger problem comes to light, which is the second point.
Point #2: You don't like us. We get it.
<UsuallyDead> I bascially just told TSO and LettyWhiterock that I think they're incompotents.
<Jana> Eh, I don't dislike any of them,but I don't think that Letty's really the best mod...
It comes to light that part of the reason that people moved to #touhou-meido is because they don't want to be under the "control" of primarily TSO and myself. They felt that they had to censor themselves or face divine retribution from the evil site staff. If that's how you feel, then whatever. You're entitled to whatever you want to feel. However, in all seriousness, what in the world do you think is going to happen? I hope the lot of you understand that while I play the role of a tyrannical moderator, I'm actually pretty reasonable. I may say that I'm going to ban or probate you for seemingly no reason, but very seldom will I ever actually go through with it. And hell, on that rare chance, I might do it for 15 minutes for the fun of it, and usually, when you come back, you've got yourself a shiny new tag. Remember when I banned MJP and triangles after their wedding? When they came back, I tried to give them Idiot Deity status (and couldn't due to the 3 ID rule). Sometimes, I do things for fun, and whoever is unlucky enough to fall victim usually gets something out of it in the end. We don't just do things for the sake of doing them and leave you with a deal-with-it unless we have a pretty good reason for it.
I don't know where we went wrong, exactly, but this entire debacle became an opportunity for a number of individuals to run to their little #touhou-meido home and bash us behind our backs. Edible and Benny seem to be loved by the community, despite the fact that they tend to share some of the same overall feelings that we do, and I seem to be liked by some people, but TSO really just got consistently shit on by the community at large, mostly with claims of power-hunger over the IRC crisis.
I'll tell you right now. Sometimes, TSO pisses me the hell off. There are instances when I do find him obnoxiously whiny at times, incredibly opinionated, and overly critical about a lot of things, so much so that eventually, I just deleted him off my message clients and tried to find a way to ignore him on this very board. Yeah, it happens. However, the people who are claiming that TSO is sore about "not being in charge anymore" are so asinine that it's appalling. Say what you will about him, right or wrong, but he gives a damn about this community and wants to see it thrive by offering his own services for your convenience, be it the IRC server or the forum. If not for TSO's contribution to keeping MotK alive and wanting to turn MotK into what I have repeatedly called "the laughing stock of the Western Touhou fandom." Here's a quote from someone on this very board:
There's a reason Shrinemaiden is the most hated western touhou community, and it's because we pick up all the kids that get shoved out of /jp/ and Poosh by the vitriol of their residents.
...
I doubt places like /jp/ or Poosh will ever consider us more than a stain on the internet, but I think we can do more to appeal to users from other sources.
The entire board redesign back in April 2009 was made to fix this exact problem and send the forum into a whole new direction. We staff members got together and did this for your benefit. So don't you ever say that TSO is in this to feed his own ego, because at any point, he could have said "Well, the forum is pretty much crap now. What say we pack it up and head out?" No, he, along with the rest of the site staff, got together, and discussed what we needed to do to turn everything around. We racked our brains to come up with new ideas and new formats. Hell, nearly every board name and the very concept of CPMC came from me, and they were implemented not because we wanted to feel accomplished but because we wanted to provide an entertaining and thrilling environment for the community we care so much to enjoy.
If you think TSO is a bad leader, that's fine. If you think I'm a crappy mod, that's fine too. If you think Edible isn't actually as edible as he says he is and should be sued for false advertising, have your lawyer call ours. But don't once try to say that we are in this to appease ourselves and want total control over your experience. We have specifically asked for your feedback on multiple occasions, through personal talks or reports, and we listen to what you have to say. Sometimes, we mess up. We're human. Even so, we try and make it right.
Point #3: We are not trying to be Something Awful.
<Mima> Not to mention TSO thinks sm.org is goddamn somethingawful or something
Something Awful is not a paradise. It has its fair share of problems, but everything that it does right, it does incredibly right. SA is a forum that a number of us have been a part of for years, and we have come to know how much of it is run. We're fans of some of the things they do. Their staff knows how to run a forum (watch Lowtax's talk at the University of Illinois if you think otherwise). However, while there are various parallels in the way certain things are handled, we have no intention of trying to become a clone board of SA.
We've taken certain ideas from SA, to be sure. My Probation avatar is a near-direct copy of theirs, which featured a caged cat, and our creation of bans and permabans were also taken from there (the original designs for those avatars, before I used Hong, were very similar to SA's as well). My Snowball Challenges are copies of their Moderator Challenges. Guess what? They've been well-received and entertaining to many. We're using a few of their avatars, and even "Deal with it" was straight from their forums. The entire concept of CPMC was taken from their creations of FYAD and YCS, off-shoots of certain main boards. If you recall, CPMC was an off-shoot of Everything Else that eventually evolved to become its own subforum. It was never meant to take away from the rest of the board in the way it does now. This stuff works.
If MotK was ever anything like Something Awful, you'd probably hate it. If you wanted a place like SA to post, you'd probably just post on SA. That's why, while we'll steal their ideas, we'll never steal their ideals. We have no desire to be like Something Awful.
Point #4: If you don't like something, speak up.
To the people who frequent #touhou-meido, this may seem familiar. We accept your feedback, and if you don't like us or something that we do, we will not rain fire upon you. The site staff is diverse enough that if something comes to our attention and a few of us agree, we will bring it up with the rest of the team. There is a strict communication policy now to prevent misunderstandings and problems from becoming rampant, and if you don't like what we're doing, tell us. This has pretty much always been an option, and with people like Kilga who fight so hard for neutrality, there is always someone to talk to who can convey whatever you need to whoever you need. Hell, if you don't like how I run things, then tell me exactly what I'm doing wrong. If enough people can get behind that, then I'll either change it or I'll resign from my post. Plain and simple. We want your stay at MotK to be an enjoyable one.
However, there is an exceptional problem with people's complacency. There are users who don't care one way or the other. They won't report problems. They won't address issues. They don't care unless they are taken out of their comfort zone. Suddenly, they're being intruded upon, because we staff members are mind-readers, and we are supposed to know how everyone feels all the time. That's plenty fair. We start making moves, and the people who, as far as we knew, had no issues with anything start telling everyone else that we're doing everything wrong and that we don't know what we're doing.
Speak the hell up. I've reiterated that we take your opinions into account. How about you start giving them?
Point #5: The move of the art threads to Community Fanworks was my idea.
A-F, Slaves, and Mode are talented artists. What if new users want to see, comment, and request artwork? Ijiyatsu's move was also one that made a lot of sense. Ijiyatsu was terrible Touhou fanfiction with terrible original characters. However, it is made great by the fact that they are being created as a game with community input. Yeah, it started in CPMC with that group as the set of characters, but again, CPMC should not be the community. It should be a board on MotK where people post sometimes. The move to Rika's Garage makes sense, because it's a fan game, and with the move, it can be seen and responded to by people who stumble upon the board. What if a really skilled danmakufu script writer wants to get involved? He shouldn't have to make 10 posts just to let us know. Again, we have other subforums. We're going to use them, whether you like it or not.
Point #6: I have a few more things to get off my chest.
TSO: You took this way IRC thing way too personally, but I don't blame you. Everyone jumped your shit and decided to turn this into an attack against you, because many didn't seem to understand anything about it, despite people like Benny trying to stand up for you. You've got a fair share of problems, and some of them are so frustrating that I want to punch you in the face. People can dislike you for those all they want, but you care about the community, even if they don't care about you. A number of us see that. Take a deep breath.
UsuallyDead: You seriously need to get the hell over it. I don't mean for you to be my little punching bag, but you continue to speak ill of the administration, because you can't seem to get past the fact that I found your thread stupid and did something with it. Should I have handled it differently? Absolutely. If I had to go back and handle it differently, would I? Without a doubt. Would I have still thought your thread was stupid? Abso-fucking-lutely. I expressed multiple times why, and you turned the issue into something else entirely and ragequit your janitor position. It seems like everyone who has a run-in with forum staff like that loves to run off screaming "they don't know how to run a forum!" You seem like you have the capacity to be a reasonable person. Take a deep breath.
UncertainKitten: I explained the problems I had with you in IRC the other day, but something else came to light that really encompasses all of it: UK, please, for the love of god, learn how to shut up.
01:31:33 <UncertainKitten> Oh god
01:31:39 * UncertainKitten reads Feito's thread about touhou-meido
01:31:46 <UncertainKitten> Why the fuck can't she leave well enough alone?
...
01:48:03 <UncertainKitten> You do realize how gender deviant the touhou community is in GENERAL, right?
...
01:53:05 <UncertainKitten> But then you have to deal with how someone gets therapy for the damage society causes thanks to it? And then where's the "medical justification", already an iffy argument against others, for the needed physical changes?
...
02:12:59 <UncertainKitten> But I don't think orientation OR gender identity are something people choose
...
02:19:28 <UncertainKitten> People on skype bitching about it because they don't have the guts to actually say anything here
...
02:33:33 <UncertainKitten> I find the fact that they are scared of a 20 year old woman on the internetz is hilarious
...
03:04:22 <UncertainKitten> You have some...opinions about me you don't wish to discuss to my face?
...
03:19:40 <UncertainKitten> Xan spoke of it. But the fact that Kanako did air his greivances about me on a public forum behind my back, instantly makes it a public issue
...
03:26:12 <UncertainKitten> Which it isn't. So you are being an evasive coward
...
03:30:03 <UncertainKitten> Ok, cite sources. Since when has everything ever called attention to myself?
...
03:34:08 <UncertainKitten> (10:34:29 PM) ShiningDrake: ...Amazing. Trying to avoid drama by causing it due to not voicing problems when asked. Priceless.
03:34:08 <UncertainKitten> Basically ^-^;
...
03:40:33 <Kanako> And this fucking argument about gender identities went on for like two hours
03:40:35 <UncertainKitten> Bullshit
03:40:38 <UncertainKitten> One hour
03:40:42 <UncertainKitten> And the argument itself was 15 minutes
...
03:46:17 <UncertainKitten> Also, I want to know why you think I'm an attention whore, since that came up
...
03:55:42 <UncertainKitten> Either we can resolve the supposed hatred, or I at least know my enemies
...
04:01:58 <UncertainKitten> I'll be honest Kanako. You should have just said something in meido rather than bullshitting behind my back.
...
04:22:05 <UncertainKitten> SERIOUSLY Letty?
04:22:11 * UncertainKitten facepalms
04:22:13 <UncertainKitten> You know what?
04:22:13 <UncertainKitten> Fuck it
04:22:27 <LettyWhiterock> What did I do?
04:22:49 <UncertainKitten> http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4796.msg235385#msg235385
04:22:52 <UncertainKitten> Yeah.
04:22:58 <LettyWhiterock> Oh ahahaha.
04:23:00 <LettyWhiterock> That was a joke.
...
04:23:15 <LettyWhiterock> I posted it over 3 hours ago.
04:23:27 <UncertainKitten> Ok. So my timing was off. Still
04:23:29 <UncertainKitten> Why me!?
04:23:45 <LettyWhiterock> Would it have been okay if it been, say, Greyn instead?
...
04:29:13 <UncertainKitten> And sometimes it's hard to believe Chaore. That people aren't out to get me. I like to think they aren't.
I like you, UK, I really do, but when you spend the greater part of three hours bitching about one thing after another, you start becoming obnoxious, and yeah, it sounds a lot like attention-whoring. You're not willing to let things go, and you want everyone to focus on you and the problem at hand until it's settled. Even Chaore had to tell you to settle down. Just chill out, and take a deep breath. You'll be fine.
To the rest of you: Behave yourselves. I'm tired of typing up long-winded diatribes, because I come off as a jerk, and despite my reputation as Letty Whiterock the Jerkface Mod, I love you guys and want to be accepted by all of you. If anyone is willing to listen and speak up, it's me. You know that. I, above all, want to see this community thrive, and I will do whatever it takes to help make that happen. If I have to step on a few toes, fine. If people hate me and leave, whatever. In the end, what I want to do for you guys is improve the place for you and for everyone else that will come here. In fact, that's what all of us on staff want. Don't fight us.
Peace.
-
I've covered everything else in PM, including this. But I'll restate it anyway.
We get the idea. Was the public callout necessary? And if you can come up with a good reason for it, I'll accept it. As it stands you come off as an asshat.
EDIT: Fair enough, a reason does exist. I don't think it's a good one but I also have some idealist views about how people should handle things.
-
(http://mikopics.fatechan.net/1264827305-emot-shivdurf.gif)
-
Wait, so, that entire debate about giving some kind of "official status" to #t-m was moving servers? Huh.
I've been fairly absent around these parts for a couple months now, so there's a lot of stuff I've apparently missed. My own little dig at #sm with regards to one member there was more a joke than anything. I don't see anything wrong with either IRC, like I said.
With regards to CPMC, I really think it's a good idea to try and make at least one post outside of CPMC for every post you make in it. Click that "unread posts" link every once in a while. Take part in threads on other boards. There are a number of newbies bouncing around out there. They could use friends.
I admittedly have only started doing this a couple months ago, but I feel like I get more out of the site than I used to. Hell, when I first came here, I ignored CPMC for months. I was all about the Addicts.
Letty's right. TSO works pretty damn hard for this place. If I never said it before, it's much appreciated to have a Touhou community this comprehensive and entertaining.
I guess that's it.
-
OK, speaking as a non-IRCer for the purposes of IRC is too tough to make work-looking and not a chat personality, question:
If every topic posted in CPMC should be constructive in some way, shape, or form, why is it that the topic is not moved to its appropriate subforum? Doesn't that turn the spammy nature of CPMC upon its head as a general spawning pool of topics, both Touhou and non-Touhou?
I honestly don't have anything bad to say about Letty, UD, TSO, UK, QED, PDQ, or anyone else - we're all in this together and I for one would rather stay the hell out of the drama other than what I posted a sentence ago. I don't see what the big shpiel is over IRC other than you guys want people to use it more, or maybe I'm completely wrong.
However, let me at least close with this: if mods and Powers That Be wish to make policy, why even attempt to explain it or win over our support? MotK is not a democracy, it is run by those in charge, and we essentially have no rights.
Life is too short for internet drama. If you guys want to make a change, do so, sticky the thread, warn offenders and then ban. What are we going to do, vote you out? Throw you out?
Put up or shut up is what I want to say here. Letty, if you want to make a change, use your powers to make that change. If it's going to counter TSO or other admins, and you want to get their support, talk to them and see what you can do to make that support. If they don't care, change it. If they disapprove and you want to roll the dice, risk it and make the change.
Don't post about what you dislike, do something about it. If you can't do anything about it, take it to PMs with the individuals who are giving you grief and if it can't be resolved no matter what, count your blessings and move on.
There, that's my $0.02. In the end all I want is a place to talk to people and kill time during the week; you guys all rock, I really don't have any problems with anyone here despite all the braggadocio and faux-hating I do.
Can't we all just get along?
-
Can't we all just get along?
Everyone here will get along once the unreasonable backstabbing stops.
There is a very damn good reason why I rarely post in CPMC nowadays, it's because of the alienating factor. I'll be frank. CPMC makes me feel like shit because I feel really out of place. Many places outside of CPMC are great places to post in, as well, and have interesting content, too, not unlike CPMC. It seems that people here seem to love shenanigans and MOE MOE too much to give a shit about the other forums. UGW is great. Help Me Eirin! is great. The other Miscellaneous boards are good too. CPMC was cool before, but now it's degenerating into a massive circle-jerk.
-
First of all, as of now, all active art threads have been moved to Community Fanworks. Please post them there from now on, or I will move them myself. You can post in them and enjoy them just as if they were here. It's no different at all, aside from the fact that they're in the forum where they're really supposed to belong.
Second, I'd like to state that I agree with Letty on pretty much everything he just said. I think last night was the first time in the half of a year I've been a member here that I was so frustrated at CPMC and #meido that I got up and walked away from my computer just so I didn't have to read any of it anymore. I understand that CPMC is very tight-knit, and that I'm honored that I feel welcomed here by you guys despite the fact that I'm new here. However, I think it's absolutely wrong that TSO and Letty don't get the kind of respect you all give me, especially since I agree with both of them in this situation. Is it because I don't have a shiny blue or purple title that you guys accept me but seem to hate them? I'm seriously wondering here.
I love MotK, CPMC, and you guys as well, but this is getting to be really frustrating. And if anything I've said just now is grounds for you all to hate me as well, please tell me why you do, and if you don't have the testicular fortitude to do that, I hope you realize how petty you're being. I've got nothing against all of you, so I hope none of you hold anything against me. It just upsets me that you all accept me, but not two people who have poured their hearts into this community and want to make it a better place.
-
Wait, so, that entire debate about giving some kind of "official status" to #t-m was moving servers? Huh.
Essentially yes. I did come off as sort of domineering and originally I did want staff to at least have hops in #meido but honestly all I really wanted was for PPIrC to get some love and make use of the things I built for the community. The rest I was more than willing to concede on in interests of good will.
Letty's right. TSO works pretty damn hard for this place. If I never said it before, it's much appreciated to have a Touhou community this comprehensive and entertaining.
Thank you. It means a lot to me. I'm not the type to demand praise, I'm content with being under-appreciated. It's just that it seems like I took 20 steps backwards over what I felt was the sign of a future big issue and just ended up making things worse :\
-
Wow, before this thread I was thinking "Letty is no nonsense what so ever" but now I see you as a way better person :), someone who actually has kind intent. I'm sorry if I seemed like an idiot when I was new to Shrine Maiden.
-
However, there is an exceptional problem with people's complacency. There are users who don't care one way or the other. They won't report problems. They won't address issues. They don't care unless they are taken out of their comfort zone. Suddenly, they're being intruded upon, because we staff members are mind-readers, and we are supposed to know how everyone feels all the time. That's plenty fair. We start making moves, and the people who, as far as we knew, had no issues with anything start telling everyone else that we're doing everything wrong and that we don't know what we're doing.
Emphasizing this, with some relevant discussion last night. Several people expressed distaste for how the occasional bouts of Anti-Semitism here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=10) go completely unchecked. I told them to make a topic about it in Letters to the Editor. One person responded with "I would, but :effort:" and no one else made any indication they even noticed my suggestion. This was :rolleyes: of the highest caliber. If something displeases you
SPEAK THE FUCK UP.
You might think you're being nice or some stupid shit by not bringing it up, but various residents in this community (myself included) have proven time and time again that silent aggravation left unchecked always explodes into something far worse than if you had said something from the beginning.
And if none of you deem trying to make this place better for you and for everyone worth the effort, then I have zero sympathy for whatever complaints you may have and will gladly spit in your face as I'm trodding on your toes.
-
well i didn't really pay attention to the IRC whatever thread, so i don't have much to say.
while i don't exactly like moving my art thread out of CPMC, there's no good reason for it to be here when it could fit just fine in Community Fanworks, so i don't have any complaints.
-
I never really visit IRC much, I could never access #touhou-meido (even after this forum pointed me to it, it seemed fun) and #danmakufu is obviously quiet but so is #shrinemaiden.
I've noticed a community here in CPMC too and I've been at these forums for under a month. But I've never seen any of this drama and backstabbing business, it's rather strange. :-\
(Also I like Letty a lot more now for some reason.)
-
To echo Kilga without the face-spitting: back-talking is not as productive as addressing problems directly, and tends to foment drama. I don't know if some people are intimidated about speaking up because they don't want to cause drama, but bitchgossiping (as I've seen in many a workplace) solves nothing and creates an atmosphere of distrust.
At the very least you can report posts. That's an anomymous form of speaking up. Or use PM. I don't think any mod would fault anyone for either of those.
-
To the rest of you: Behave yourselves. I'm tired of typing up long-winded diatribes, because I come off as a jerk, and despite my reputation as Letty Whiterock the Jerkface Mod, I love you guys and want to be accepted by all of you. If anyone is willing to listen and speak up, it's me. You know that. I, above all, want to see this community thrive, and I will do whatever it takes to help make that happen. If I have to step on a few toes, fine. If people hate me and leave, whatever. In the end, what I want to do for you guys is improve the place for you and for everyone else that will come here. In fact, that's what all of us on staff want. Don't fight us.
This is an important thing for me to hear.
Letty, I'm going be straight with you, since that's what you want. You seldom come off as friendly when I see you about. Most often, you are either upset about something, complaining about something, or being a cynic in general. I suppose this is an affected persona. But when you don't drop it, what is one supposed think about the person behind it? Simply put, you come off as not liking many of us, and taking joy in being able to censure, ban, and so forth.
With this in mind, I find it hard to trust you as a moderator. It's hard for me to think you are trying to be fair, considerate, or even-handed; rather than simply enacting whatever whims you have because you don't like CPMC. I've had to have Tso reassure me in the past that you aren't just doing whatever you feel like, and that there is discussion and such.
As I've said, part of this is my fault. I don't follow you around and try to pick apart what is affectation and what isn't. But on the other hand, you've not really acted in a manner that encourages me to do anything other than try to stay out of your way.
You wonder why people talk about the mods, and don't seem to include Benny or Kilga. I think this is why. Benny's a pretty nice guy, and Kilga drops his jerkface facade rather easily. But you never seem to, for more than a moment. You say you want to be friends with us. I don't think anyone would mind that. But in order to do that, you have to be friendly. Not only does it drive people to misinterpret and shy away from you, it makes the community moderation seem arbitrary and driven more by pathos than reason. This only feeds into those misconceptions that crept up, and makes them seem more justified. It's made me reluctant to speak up about things in the past, because you come off as the sort of person who holds grudges. Before today, I wouldn't have said anything at all for exactly that reason.
This is why it's important to me you said that up there. It help affirm that my perception is wrong. Please continue to do that.
-
I appreciate that, Purvis. I do.
It may come as a surprise, but I'm often nice to the point of self-sacrifice. I simply tend to put on the Letty mask more, because I find it more fun. I sometimes forget that people aren't always keen on my sense of humor. I apologize for this.
-
Miscommunication: the silent destroyer :V
-
I pretty much have to agree with Purv. There's been lots of times where Letty or some other mod has just come off as flat-out, unnecessarily rude, seemingly because they could. I'm new to CMPC in general (I really only came here for the Touhou game discussion and thought I might as well drop by this forum), so maybe it's just me not knowing the community well enough to know who's joking and who's not, so if that's the case, please do let me know. :(
Oh, that's another thing that bothers me about CPMC. Everyone always talks about how tightly-knit the forum is, how everyone's a great family and they all know each other and who's doing what with their lives and yadda yadda yadda.
Sometimes I feel CMPC is too tightly-knit. It's honestly just intimidating sometimes. Out of all the forums (and spam sections) I've visited, I've never felt...well, I don't want to say "scared," but...well, it's more like "awkward." I feel like I'm intruding on this forum whenever I browse it. Like Letty said in the OP, CMPC is a clique, and one I'm almost afraid to try to break through for fear of retribution or something.
When I type it out like this, I feel kind of silly, but it's just an issue that's been bothering me for a while. It just feels like CMPC has reached its maximum capacity and anyone who wants to join, well that's just too bad for them. :c
-
I pretty much have to agree with Purv. There's been lots of times where Letty or some other mod has just come off as flat-out, unnecessarily rude, seemingly because they could. I'm new to CMPC in general (I really only came here for the Touhou game discussion and thought I might as well drop by this forum), so maybe it's just me not knowing the community well enough to know who's joking and who's not, so if that's the case, please do let me know. :(
You catch on over time. It's like how people first perceive Moogy. As far as they know, he hates everyone and everything, but he's just a troll that really does no harm.
-
This is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I have never seen a post address so many issues so thoroughly and well at once.
Letty: This is a very wonderful post and I am very happy to see something like this, especially from you, because it seriously does address any and every sort of an issue I have had in a long while. Public callouts were a litttttle irrelevant but hey this is just a random post that doesn't necessarily reflect the views of shrinemaiden.org moderators, so I can deal with that. I'm going to entirely avoid something like that though, there's a reason I'm avoiding #meido right now, and I hate feeling angry at people so I'm trying to minimize that.
On top of what Letty said here, I want to emphasize one thing that I thought people here truly did understand, but apparently that wasn't the case: When you see somebody (and by somebody I mean (basically) anybody) typing a line on irc, making a forum post, writing up a thread because they are an admin and are trying to maintain their website, are pming you things that irritate you, or anything else, that person is a human being. I am not telling you to get along with everybody unconditionally. There are people I will forever not get along with, and I know this is pretty much the case for everybody. But that person is a human being. I saw people treating others not as human beings yesterday and I didn't expect to ever see this from this community (you guys did a really good job building up your masks) and I don't ever want to see it again.
I'm still really mad at people. What I saw on IRC last night is simply not forgivable and I do not ever want to see someone (in this case, Chaore) treated so poorly. He is a human being sitting behind a monitor and I am furious at how he was treated, and I am not in #meido right now because I do not want to look at some of you right now because I am mad at you. This will pass and I will love you all again sometime or another but what I saw last night, and yesterday as a whole is not something I will easily forgive. Perhaps I'm just mad at myself because when you all (all is used very loosely here) wore your masks of liking everybody and it turns out there were people you felt the desire to tell to their face, many of you at once, that you hated them, I didn't realize you were all wearing masks. You fooled me. Good job!
I do get angry easily, sometimes. I know this is a problem and I know when I was talking on #meido in the morning I was getting angry and I was being offensive to Mima and UD and probably others too. I don't like this and I was fuming all day (which is a bad thing because that Thursday I was busy from straight 11AM to 9PM). And you know what made me mad? I had spend a good long while talking about how #meido is very close, and that sort of closeness won't come in #sm. And then you all start telling each other how much you hate each other and I felt like I had been lying all day and what I had thought was true of so many of you wasn't true.
But at the same time, later that day I was asked if "I ever feel like I'd like to just take a few people from a community, lift them up, and go somewhere else." I responded by saying "Yes, I've felt that before, but this isn't that sort of a time. Even after tonight, I still want everybody in #meido to be there." You all are awesome and I am still mad at a bunch of you and probably won't be around for a few more days because I can't read lines from you without getting irritated but I will be back sometime.
Please don't ever forget that other users are human beings again. And thank you so much, Letty, for posting this, because I am too angry at everybody to possibly have any sort of composure to write a post like yours.
-
I honestly am not sure what to reply to this. I'm not one to care enough about any of these arguments to do anything about anything. It might just be because I'm far too lax, but whatever. Even if it sounds really lazy, just throwing everything you said into a ditto, I just have to say that I pretty much agree with everything you said.
Even just demonstrated by these few replies, you've worked your way, at least a bit, into a few people. I've said before that I totally respect your decisions and know that you guys are trying your hardest to make this place better, and I stand by it.
Good job.
-
Sometimes I feel CMPC is too tightly-knit. It's honestly just intimidating sometimes. Out of all the forums (and spam sections) I've visited, I've never felt...well, I don't want to say "scared," but...well, it's more like "awkward." I feel like I'm intruding on this forum whenever I browse it. Like Letty said in the OP, CMPC is a clique, and one I'm almost afraid to try to break through for fear of retribution or something.
I'm new to these forums in general, but uh, I've felt the same way, actually. I've also been worried that by posting in CPMC I'm being "that guy" and coming off like I'm trying to force myself into the community or something, which I certainly don't want to do. I don't even feel right referencing people by name here because I'm not part of the clique and I don't know them. Plus I don't get responses to half of my posts here so I don't even know if I'm being a really irritating jerk who isn't welcome or something.
-
Oh hi, look, I don't really care initially I think you guys do what you have to do to run the forum but damn, now you done pouring oil into fire now.
enjoy your forest fires.
beejeezus guys, can't you not flog the dead horse?
Thing is, it does bring awareness, but not like that is gonna change a thing ain't it.?
-
Thing is, it does bring awareness, but not like that is gonna change a thing ain't it.?
Not with that mindset, it won't.
-
I appreciate that, Purvis. I do.
It may come as a surprise, but I'm often nice to the point of self-sacrifice. I simply tend to put on the Letty mask more, because I find it more fun. I sometimes forget that people aren't always keen on my sense of humor. I apologize for this.
It's not so much not being keen on the humor; I sometimes come down with the haterade myself. Just that when it keeps happening, and makes up the bulk of what one sees, one starts to wonder if it's an act, or reflective of actual feelings that are just a little exaggerated.
To be fair, though. Edible is also really bad about this. Just that you are a more visible face.
I pretty much have to agree with Purv. There's been lots of times where Letty or some other mod has just come off as flat-out, unnecessarily rude, seemingly because they could. I'm new to CMPC in general (I really only came here for the Touhou game discussion and thought I might as well drop by this forum), so maybe it's just me not knowing the community well enough to know who's joking and who's not, so if that's the case, please do let me know. :(
Oh, that's another thing that bothers me about CPMC. Everyone always talks about how tightly-knit the forum is, how everyone's a great family and they all know each other and who's doing what with their lives and yadda yadda yadda.
Sometimes I feel CMPC is too tightly-knit. It's honestly just intimidating sometimes. Out of all the forums (and spam sections) I've visited, I've never felt...well, I don't want to say "scared," but...well, it's more like "awkward." I feel like I'm intruding on this forum whenever I browse it. Like Letty said in the OP, CMPC is a clique, and one I'm almost afraid to try to break through for fear of retribution or something.
When I type it out like this, I feel kind of silly, but it's just an issue that's been bothering me for a while. It just feels like CMPC has reached its maximum capacity and anyone who wants to join, well that's just too bad for them. :c
I don't think it's an issue of capacity. I don't think CPMC really actively excludes anyone who isn't acting like Myon or Seniwac (that is, trollin' it up.). It's just that you're overlooked if you don't make a name for yourself. I've got my RP stuff and once in a blue moon amusing quips. Slaves, AF, Erebus, Mode, and recently Gappy have their arts. Others are lunatic players. So on. I really didn't start to blend in here until I did that one thread back in June where I was pretending to be an old southern pedophile with a dozen and one stories. I managed to luck out and get IM, though, which is really what got me a name here at all. That and a thousand and one posts.
So there are two ways to really make yourself known here. One is you post a lot, so that people see you. Interact and have fun. It'll take a couple weeks, but you'll become a maff class spiffy personality just by being visible and bullshittin' with people. The other way is to find some kind of niche. We like art guys. We like effort posters, and so on. Either way, that's more or less how internettin' in general works. Just if you take the first route, you can't expect all your posts to be winners. Don't worry, happens to all of us.
I'm new to these forums in general, but uh, I've felt the same way, actually. I've also been worried that by posting in CPMC I'm being "that guy" and coming off like I'm trying to force myself into the community or something, which I certainly don't want to do. I don't even feel right referencing people by name here because I'm not part of the clique and I don't know them.
You're always going to be "that guy" when you're new to just about any community. Don't worry about it, no one's really excluding you or judging you all that much. We're just getting used to you.
For what it's worth, I thnk your frood has it share of hoop =]
Thing is, it does bring awareness, but not like that is gonna change a thing ain't it.?
Changed my view of Letty for the better, a little bit.
-
Conflict is a natural constant. The problem here is that the shadow of the issue is larger than what it really is.
To be informed will allow those to make a better decision, one that they knowingly can choose out of their free will.
I should assume that my short time in CPMC would mean that I shouldn't be affected by this, but my inability to forget and ignore still hurts me.
To be honest, I still love the moderators (not in that way and I only annoy Edible because he's funny) and MotK and I don't take MotK for granted; it's a lovely place even if the naysayers are right outside the front door.
Maybe I just sound a bit too optimistic, but better that than to be immutable, correct?
-
So we should just sit around and let the forest burn down instead?
The entire idea here is that people are supposed to speak up when they have problems, and they weren't aware of this or something or it wasn't emphasized enough and Letty and so on are trying to do a wonderful job to make it so this isn't the case anymore.
This is hardly a dead horse, by the way, drama from the day before is hardly "dead".
-
Plus I don't get responses to half of my posts here so I don't even know if I'm being a really irritating jerk who isn't welcome or something.
I'm usually too busy staring at your sig picture and thinking about Rhythm Tengoku.
Oh hi, look, I don't really care initially I think you guys do what you have to do to run the forum but damn, now you done pouring oil into fire now.
enjoy your forest fires.
beejeezus guys, can't you not flog the dead horse?
Thing is, it does bring awareness, but not like that is gonna change a thing ain't it.?
Are you drunk? I feel like this wasn't a complete thought.
-
Oh hi, look, I don't really care initially I think you guys do what you have to do to run the forum but damn, now you done pouring oil into fire now.
enjoy your forest fires.
No, this isn't fueling the flame. This is an attempt to try and resolve the issue that has been unnecessarily started and brought up. I know my voice means little here, but I at least want to try and be able to provide a voice of reason in order to clear things up. The administration are trying their best to try and resolve issues. If anything, it's the populace themselves that are causing chaos. We are trying to come to a peaceful resolution.
beejeezus guys, can't you not flog the dead horse?
Thing is, it does bring awareness, but not like that is gonna change a thing ain't it.?
What the fuck is this thread, then?
-
...Drake pretty much summed up what I was going to say far better than I could ever possibly hope to do. I mean, I feel pretty worthless for just doing nothing more than merely dittoing a ditto, which in and of itself is some pretty ludicrous laziness (possibly of the highest caliber), but when someone pretty much says what you wanted to say better than you can word it out, then what can ya do?
Oh hi, look, I don't really care initially I think you guys do what you have to do to run the forum but damn, now you done pouring oil into fire now.
enjoy your forest fires.
I fail to see how this is 'pouring oil into the fire', or what 'forest fires' will ensue for that matter, but what do I know?
What the fuck is this thread, then?
A waste of everyone's time, apparently.
-
All I am saying is, as it is, there is some leeway for understanding, bringing it the table like this seem to have caused a significant situation of conflict thus far.
I am not exactly opposing it of course, in fact I applaud your actions now that the issue has become like this.
I suppose without conflicts in opinion you cannot reach a consensus or solution.
drama from the day before is hardly "dead".
would be better if it was, because someone has to bring it up over and over again so yeah. sigh~
So we should just sit around and let the forest burn down instead?
it is a comfort zone thing, I suppose someone needs to wake everyone up with a topic like this, seeing as milder methods if any hasn't worked.
my apologies.
-
Okay, this is a thread where I just have to stop lurking and post again.
I, like MJP, am a non-IRCer and what I wanted to say about it has already been said by him.
I want to get to say something about you, Letty.
Yes, sometimes I got the feeling you are the dictator of these forums and hate everyone.
Yes, I hated you for the Myon-crisis.
But I got over it and do you know why?
Because I simply realised a person like you is needed for a place like this, a person who will clean up trash when needed and will hold peace and order. But we can't let you clean up everything and we as people from the community should work together to maintain this place.
And honestly Letty, I see you as the best mod around here and I find it very good you have posted this thread.
As for posting in other boards, you can count on me.
I needed and still need a hard break from CPMC.
Also, i will later come with a more worked out opinion, I can't think clearly at the moment and I am in a hurry.
-
I'm usually too busy staring at your sig picture and thinking about Rhythm Tengoku.
...Is that good or bad?
-
...Is that good or bad?
Thinking about Rhythm Tengoku is never a bad thing.
-
Thinking about Rhythm Tengoku is never a bad thing.
This, pretty much.
-
Thinking about Rhythm Tengoku is never a bad thing.
Agreements.
-
*takes a deep breath*
All right, reading all this I'm actually kind of glad I missed the drama last night, but let me share my thoughts right now.
A lot of that may have been said before, but whatever:
First of all, making this thread was a wonderful thing, Letty.
The simple fact that you did this shows how much you care about the community.
I can see how you come over as a cold-hearted jerk to many people, but I also think it's easy to see beyond that.
But the fact that you are able to act out that jerk-role so consistently is what makes you so valuable as a mod.
It allows you to decide what's best for the community as the whole, and as I see it you're doing a good job with that.
Just noting the following to those who are sceptical: If Letty really hated CPMC, he could've made this thread outside of it, just to make CPMC look bad in front of the whole board, or make some major changes without talking to anyone.
And I'd like to say it might even have been justified.
But he didn't. Think about it.
Second, what already has been said, I also feel that the staff's work is highly under-appreciated.
It's a fact that this board is what it is because of two things: The staff and the community.
And those aren't two opposing fractions, the staff is recruited out of the community, not appointed from outside or something.
They are people that started out like everyone else and were at one point trusted with tasks that are harder and require a lot of responsibility.
It's sad to see how little the staff seems to be able to participate in the board itself.
I'd really love to see TSO, Letty and the rest taking part in the daily activities of MotK and not be treated different.
But that'll require a lot of us to change our ways of thinking about this board and the people on it (and I don't wanna exclude myself here).
As for the posting on boards besides CPMC, I really don't get why some people are so adamant about not doing that.
I welcome how the art threads have now become available for everyone, because they are one of the things that makes MotK (yes, MotK, not CPMC) really stand out for me, and it would be a shame to hide them from someone just because that someone is hesitant to post and gain access to CPMC.
Same goes for the whole Ijiyatsu-project.
I'll say that the things I have had most fun with on MotK up to now have not been in CPMC at all.
They were in the Addict's, UGW and the Fanworks'
There's a lot more nice stuff going on out of CPMC than many people might imagine, so come out of your shell, open your mind and enjoy what this board has to offer.
And never forget that all of this is made possible by some nice people who are just as much a human as you are.
*phew* That's it. As usual when I get agitated, a wall of text.
-
hm. This post has turned out to be just me rambling about stuff, but while we're getting things off our chests ...
Yeah, I'm generally a non-IRCer, at least as far as #t-m and #sm are concerned (I go to others on PPIRC), because the one's often too spammy for my tastes, and the other is ... well, everyone's pretty much said everything I feel about both channels in the other thread. Speaking of which, said other thread probably became a problem because it wasn't clear what TSO actually wanted, and everyone subsequently did thier part to make it even more muddled ...
Let me put it this way: 1. CPMC's insular nature is pretty much the entire reason I gave my Ijiyatsu character a "hmm, not sure if I fit in yet" element in that one thread where we all made profiles. I mean ... fuck, just about every time someone posts a new picture of an Ijiyatsu character, I think "who the hell is that, anyway?" except in several rare, "prominent person" cases. I don't really feel like I've connected with people, even the way I connect with some people in other online communities. I don't mean just in CPMC, I mean the site as a whole. I don't seriously feel like I've made (m)any actual friends here, apart from some of the people who hang out in my comic's channel. Occasionally, I seriously wonder why I come here at all.
And 2. I kind of sympathize with TSO given his situation, but Letty and Kilga seriously need to make it clearer that their acts are nothing more than acts. My first impression of them has always been of "unreasonable, possibly tyrannical mods who are snarky about how unreasonable they are." And if you haven't spent months getting to know them better (In my case, for the record: Kilga slightly, Letty barely), what's a newcomer to the site and PPIRC supposed to think? Now that I think about it, I'm wondering if part of the reason people aren't speaking up about things is for fear of incurring Letty and Kilga's wrath.
-
For the record, I used to feel the same way about Kilga.
It wasn't until I spent a good deal of time, as in a couple months, talking with him on IRC that his non-jerk self came through and stuck with me. Though to be fair, he's been a lot better about it in the past couple months as far as forum posting, from what I've seen.
-
The effort and thought you put into the opening post shows. I applaud you.
Coincidentally, I agree with your sentiments.
Additionally:
There's a lot more nice stuff going on out of CPMC than many people might imagine, so come out of your shell, open your mind and enjoy what this board has to offer.
A poster in question may just be dropping in for a short while, and therefore just checks/posts in CPMC. But with times like these (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4724.0), it seems unreasonable (and probably unlikely) to spend time only in the classroom when the other boards are often times more interesting that CPMC.
Also, to newcomers who don't feel they fit in yet. Just stay active, you'll eventually learn about others, and the community won't seem so alienating. Personal messages are a great tool to get to know people.
Finally: Muffin, your #1 reflects a bit how I feel. Glad to see Mr_Bob is not the only one.
-
It seems that people here seem to love shenanigans and MOE MOE too much to give a shit about the other forums. UGW is great. Help Me Eirin! is great. The other Miscellaneous boards are good too. CPMC was cool before, but now it's degenerating into a massive circle-jerk.
This is basically my current problem with the forum too, although I really wouldn't consider myself a REAL member of the CPMC inner circle or whatever.
And right now, I think Letty is being TOO nice. He and the other mods could just as easily ban a few troublemakers for good (from the forums and IRC) without another word, and they have every right to do so. Still, I'd like to think that people are a little reasonable and that things can be worked out somehow and an understanding can be reached.
Another thing, if people are still REALLY that dead-set on separating themselves from MotK, then at least have the courtesy to do it properly, on another forum/server altogether.
-
I'm not sure if I owe everyone here an apology.
Looking back on history, it looks like a lot of this apparent elitism can really be blamed on one thing - Ijiyatsu. The users who got made characters jumped up an echelon in social standing, and it seems to have just about become the standard for #meido. Anyone new is immediately several rungs behind on the ladder simply because they don't have a loli caricature.
I don't want to come off as saying that if you enjoy Ijiyatsu, you're immediately xenophobic/elitist. It's an entertaining side-project that produces some nice fanart and that a lot of people enjoy.
And that's all it is. And you're hearing that from the mouth of the guy who came up with the damn thing. :V
Anyway, I think Muffin made a bit of a point when he said that he hadn't made any real friends on CPMC. People you make jokes with, yes. People you feel you can confide in and and trust? Not so much.
Then again, maybe that's not the sort of thing CPMC is really meant to generate. It's a place to hang out and do stupid shit. Serious business is for other boards. I certainly didn't get particularly friendly with anyone here based solely on a lolsocialthread.
So by definition, staying in meido/CPMC isn't going to make people anything other than mere acquaintances. It's through communication outwith that - communication with meaning, even something relatively lighthearted like UGW - that people really get close.
Maybe people need to take a step back and say to themselves: 'How well do I know my friends on CPMC? Do I know them as people, or do I know them as a loli caricature?' That sort of misconception is probably what's accrued Letty so much haet - everyone saw the cynic and no-one bothered to look for the person. Likewise for TSO - everyone remembered his whining when his life went to shit, but (as has been pointed out) no-one remembered the loyal admin who's basically kept this site alive. If you're taking serious offense at a person's internet persona, at least determine if it's genuine first.
I'm not gonna say that I'm above all of this. Hell, after so long I got scared away from #sm because it was too srs bzns. And I'm guilty of other things as well - my incessant whining was because I saw people as just walls of text, not genuine people whose concern would eventually give way to irritation as I do nothing but complain. I vented without considering the feelings of whoever was on the other side of the monitor, especially whether or not they wanted to hear it, and for that I owe everyone I moaned to an apology.
But if it's descended to the point where we need a thread like this, then I think we should stop and wonder how this happened. Did people simply write MotK off as a place where they could write stupid shit and be funny? Did it stop being a community and start being nothing but CPMC or #meido to some people? And if so, is it really that bad on anyone's behalf to take time every so often to post on more serious boards, where people try to do more than be hilarious? Because that seems like the first step to putting this board back together.
Anyway, I've probably said more than I'm due.
-
I can sympathize with the newcomers here, having also felt like I didn't want to try too hard. But I also felt awkward being old compared to most users here. I didn't want to come across as Mr. Midlife Crisis, or worse. I worried about that, wondering what I could even share. There's still plenty that's private, but I decided to be myself, talk to people, and remember we're all Touhou fans. It takes time. Just like being the new kid in any other class.
Also, Muffin, FWIW, I love your contributions here.
-
To be quite frank, I think the reason why I'm not more active is probably because I'm stuck at the "wondering what I could even share.". Should have seen how worried I was at first when I started that scratch ticket thing. ^^;
Wish I could add more than I hope you guys get through this alright. There's another community I'm in that is exactly what this thread's trying avoid, and I'd really hate to see you guys go further down that route.
Though I think one thing I am getting from this is that it makes me want to try and become more active with you guys than I have been from before.
-
To be quite frank, I think the reason why I'm not more active is probably because I'm stuck at the "wondering what I could even share.". Should have seen how worried I was at first when I started that scratch ticket thing. ^^;
Wish I could add more than I hope you guys get through this alright. There's another community I'm in that is exactly what this thread's trying avoid, and I'd really hate to see you guys go further down that route.
Though I think one thing I am getting from this is that it makes me want to try and become more active with you guys than I have been from before.
Do more scratch tickets
-
So...I'm not very good at writing posts like this, but I'd just like to say that I always thought Letty's "jerk" side was just a little joke of his, and it's really nice to be proven right at times like this.
Anyway, I'm just going to agree with Benny here. I think that it's really important to remember the text on your screen was typed by someone, and that someone has feelings too.
Also, Muffin's puns make my day. :P
-
(Thanks for pointing this out Pako)
Well...this is a thing.
I really don't have much to say. I'm gonna be blatantly honest and say that I actually like all of the mods/admins here. I may have complained about them before, and long before, but now I like all of you. Letty you're a cool guy. I understand that your ban-threats are usually empty if without good reason. It's just that before with your past bannings at the beginning of the new forum scared me a bit. Not only at you, but with every mod here. The probation TSO gave right at the beginning didn't help me as well >.>
Now about the IRC problem. I've been to #sm about...4 times in my life. All 4 times, I can not participate in the discussion because of what's being discussed. I don't feel like I fit in. Like what Edible said in the previous thread, it's a much different atmosphere.
Now #meido...at first I didn't intend to stay there. I decided to go there once because I wanted to know how that Maid RPG or whatever it's called worked. When I got there though, I discovered that most CPMC'ers goes there. I've been told by them (not by Pesco or Hime though) that this is where most of them talk and hang out. This is where I got the assumption that it was the CPMC channel. I will not point any fingers, but I'm just gonna point that out on why I go there.
I've never been to /jp/ or really 4chan in general. I just don't like to hang around there. And I've lurked Poosh sometimes, but not too much. In general, I don't go on imageboards or post there much. I just came straight here and posted because it seems like a nice community. To be honest, this community is A LOT better than most other communities I've been on, and not only will I thank the mods and admins for this, but for the majority of the members here that made it so. You guys are fun to hang with. I don't know how this place became the place where most kids got shoved out of /jp/, but again, never went on that place so no comment there.
I've never hung around SA as well, because I'm cheap and not willing to pay for membership, and ads make it unbearable for me to lurk the place. So I won't comment anything on that as well.
Lastly, this is regarding myself. I am fully aware of my actions. I may have contributed to some...discussions...that became the cause of most topic locks. I know that my perverted mind needs to be self-contained to a strict limit to make other members comfortable. I am trying to do so at the best of my ability. I've had warnings by fellow mods, more specifically Kilga, whom I respect whole-heartedly. It's not that I refuse to learn. It's just that how low I lower the limit sometimes isn't low enough.
I may be the biggest Koishi fanboy out there. The only thing I really want to point out and make clear is I AM NEVER SERIOUS WHEN I SAY I WANT HER TO BE MY WAIFU. I DO NOT WISH TO MARRY OR TO LOVE OR MAKE LOVE TO A FICTIONAL CHARACTER. I HAVE HAD GIRLS IN MY LIFE, AND I'VE HAD MY SHARE OF LOVE WITH THEM. So don't go thinking that Koishi is my one true love or that I never had a girlfriend or kissed a girl or whatever. I just think she's a fun character in the series who deserves more respect, and I like to make jokes about my favouritism over her.
While I'm on that subject, I'm gonna address the issue with the image thread. I've had complaints that I've been posting too many Koishi images. I understand. But the problem is that one day I don't post Koishi images, and I get PMs about my lack of Koishi in the thread FOR ONE FREAKING DAY. There's two sides to the argument. One wants less, one wants more. So the only thing I could do at the moment is to continue posting Koishi images. Why? Because it's not mandatory to save or to look at Koishi images. You still don't like it?
:dealwithit:
That is all. I'm not a person who likes to go into arguments (which is probably another reason why I left Mafia. Not like I hate you guys, it's just me).
-
I may be the biggest Koishi fanboy out there. The only thing I really want to point out and make clear is I AM NEVER SERIOUS WHEN I SAY I WANT HER TO BE MY WAIFU. I DO NOT WISH TO MARRY OR TO LOVE OR MAKE LOVE TO A FICTIONAL CHARACTER. I HAVE HAD GIRLS IN MY LIFE, AND I'VE HAD MY SHARE OF LOVE WITH THEM. So don't go thinking that Koishi is my one true love or that I never had a girlfriend or kissed a girl or whatever. I just think she's a fun character in the series who deserves more respect, and I like to make jokes about my favouritism over her.
One more thing.
I'm pretty sure that many people from the old forum remembers the waifu thread right? I was the creator and all, and how it all turned out.
I only made that thread to have some fun. I didn't intend people to take it so seriously and to go RP in it. My true intention was to see people fight over characters who's already been claimed and all. Like I said, this waifu thing wasn't serious at all. I may be part of the blame for the RP, but I never intended it to give off some creepy vibe. It was all fun and games for me, and may not have been for others. I am deeply sorry for whatever happened in that thread and could not withhold any actions in that thread. That would totally be my fault. Just don't take that waifu crap too seriously please.
Just wanted to point that out as it came to mind when talking to Pako.
-
Do more scratch tickets
I wish I could with the 9's, but they're gone already. @_@;
-
:wikipedia:
-
This is the only internet community that I like, and I hate it when we can't all just take it easy.
-
wait, hold on
the Mode Tells About CPMC thread was moved to Community Fanworks? i figured it should stay here because it's about CPMC too ???
-
In this thread, Confessions of a Shrinemaiden.
Anyway, CPMC and certain other parts of MotK definitely feels insular, even for someone that's been there for almost a year now. It feels hard to really interact much when you don't have a lot to contribute. But most of that is stuff that's already covered by other people. Personally, I guess I probably post more in Tech Support than anywhere else. There definitely seems to be a bit of a wall around certain groups of people (most evident during the Otakon meetup last year, but that was my own social anxiety acting up, ahahaa). But I guess time and whatever will fix that.
As for the cynicism, I definitely understand doing it "for the lulz", but there's a time and place for it. It definitely shouldn't come out when making moderation decisions, as it can cloud your perceptions of people and events along with causing misunderstandings in one's intentions. As forum and channel staff, you're the stewards of the overall image of the site. While I don't think the site's overbearingly unwelcoming, I think a bit of the cynicism needs to be expressed in a different way. Personally I haven't had any specific issues with anyone in the staff (including Suzuran on #sm), when I've interacted with them on a personal level they've seemed to be decent people.
Then again, I'm retarded as it is, so don't listen to me. :V
-
I may be the biggest Koishi fanboy out there. The only thing I really want to point out and make clear is I AM NEVER SERIOUS WHEN I SAY I WANT HER TO BE MY WAIFU. I DO NOT WISH TO MARRY OR TO LOVE OR MAKE LOVE TO A FICTIONAL CHARACTER. I HAVE HAD GIRLS IN MY LIFE, AND I'VE HAD MY SHARE OF LOVE WITH THEM. So don't go thinking that Koishi is my one true love or that I never had a girlfriend or kissed a girl or whatever. I just think she's a fun character in the series who deserves more respect, and I like to make jokes about my favouritism over her.
I don't think anyone actually thinks you want to marry a fictional character, so much as, I don't know, we get it already that you really, really, really, like Koishi. Might be a bit ironic coming from me, but yeah. Otherwise, party on.
-
Y'know, Gpoop, I think you'd come off as less creepy/obnoxious if you didn't give the impression that someone could write a fic that was complete and utter crap, or make a stupid and terrible create.swf comic, and you'd still love them solely on the basis that it had Koishi, possibly shipped with Flandre.
(That said, I still think you shouldn't have to spend months Getting To Know a moderator before they don't come off as an egotistical prick.)
-
I don't think anyone actually thinks you want to marry a fictional character, so much as, I don't know, we get it already that you really, really, really, like Koishi. Might be a bit ironic coming from me, but yeah. Otherwise, party on.
Just that I've had people who took me seriously, and actually starting coming out on me saying that they wanted to marry a Touhou character, seriousness and all. Just wanted to point that out for those people who thinks that way.
Y'know, Gpoop, I think you'd come off as less creepy/obnoxious if you didn't give the impression that someone could write a fic that was complete and utter crap, or make a stupid and terrible create.swf comic, and you'd still love them solely on the basis that it had Koishi, possibly shipped with Flandre.
I'll be honest, I don't read many fics. The only ones I follow are White Rose, Valesta's CtC re-interpretation, Sweet Dreams, some of UD's fics and some of yours. The only create.swf comic I follow is yours. How many of them have Koishi in them. Only three, and your comics I have been following before you introduced Koishi x Flandre or even Koishi herself. I'm writing a fic myself that's not even solely centered around Koishi, although it does have her as a major influence at the moment.
Anyways, enough of that. I'm done for now. I'll still be the Koishi-addicted fanboy, but I just wanted to make that clear for those who takes me seriously :V
-
I'm more pathetic than Gpop? ;_;
jk
-
Okay, I don't post here much, I have no idea what the drama was about, and yes, I do feel kind of awkward whenever I post here. But I would like to say one thing.
Thank you, Letty. Thank you, TSO. And thank you to everyone else who helps keep these forums running, because it's one of the best overall communities I could ever ask for.
-
We should all hug. right now.
-
I guess we all have to post here?
Jerk mods make the best mods because they're more likely to uphold rules and not worry and hurting feelings. If your feelings are hurt because you got probated, deal with it. You broke a rule and you got punished. Don't like it? Don't do it again. Simple as that
CPMC was a lot better before that Vic Viper guy came around, can't we do something about him? EUUGH!
-
(http://i47.tinypic.com/b3sw3q.png)
-
(http://i47.tinypic.com/b3sw3q.png)
Why, yes, miss Yakumo, I am!
-
I guess we all have to post here?
Jerk mods make the best mods because they're more likely to uphold rules and not worry and hurting feelings. If your feelings are hurt because you got probated, deal with it. You broke a rule and you got punished. Don't like it? Don't do it again. Simple as that
CPMC was a lot better before that Vic Viper guy came around, can't we do something about him? EUUGH!
I completely disagree with this. Friends are far more important than rules. If you're not blatantly trying to be an ass, ala Seniwac or Pedo, there's no reason to coldly drop the hammer. Treating that person like an errant friend would do.
Also, Ijiyatsu did not cause anything. CPMC was very much like it is before Ijiyatsu happened; it's simply a creative outlet and a harmless bit of doing nice things for friends. If anything, it's actually helped us get more peoples in, as it got Gappy to show up around here and contribute a lot more.
-
wait, hold on
the Mode Tells About CPMC thread was moved to Community Fanworks? i figured it should stay here because it's about CPMC too ???
You have a point. I'll move it back.
EDIT: Okay, it's back.
-
I completely disagree with this. Friends are far more important than rules. If you're not blatantly trying to be an ass, ala Seniwac or Pedo, there's no reason to coldly drop the hammer. Treating that person like an errant friend would do.
But if your friends are tearing the shit out of your stuff and you've asked them nicely to stop before, when do I draw the line at "friend" and "mod"? And why should we play favorites? Just because we know you more? That sounds horrifically partial and biased. If anything personal feelings towards someone should only determine HOW you approach the person causing problems, not whether or not you do it at all, or what consequences they face. If I am not completely impartial in my decisions, despite my familiarity with the person involved, then I am a horrible judicator and mod. Favoritism is never acceptable, even if it's just towards your friends. Everyone deserves the same playing field no matter how much I may like or dislike them. It's because of favoritism that some issues have boiled over way too long instead of actually taking care of them when they started.
Basically what I'm saying is, if you're being an idiot, it shouldn't matter if you're my friend or my worst enemy. I'm going to call you out on it and deal the same punishment to either of you. Only thing that being a friend matters is 1) I'll probably have a better chance of getting through to you and 2) I'll know a more appropriate way to address it. Just because you're my friend doesn't excuse you from "getting the hammer" dropped on you if you're causing issues. Trying to talk to a friend about an issue they're causing is probably the hardest part of my job. I don't enjoy it. I'm far more comfortable telling someone I don't know they're causing problems than to chastise someone I do know. But at the same time, would it be fair for me to beat up on the new guy I don't know and just give a slap on the wrist for my buddy? :\
-
If anything, it's actually helped us get more peoples in, as it got Gappy to show up around here and contribute a lot more.
I found this odd till I thought about it a little more....
And true, I hardly posted on MotK outside UGW until ijiyatsu came along ^^;; I guess it was a nice creative outlet for drawing and writing.
Honestly, I wasn't at all aware of anything wrong until all this came along. I'm sorry that what we were doing was upsetting people. I simply had no idea. I was just having fun ^^;;
Now that the art threads are gone, I guess have no more business in CPMC XD Well, I see the moving of the art threads as an opportunity. It was about time I stopped drawing this stuff anyway. It's high time I returned to my DA. So with that, thanks for supporting my art, (soon to be former) denizens of CPMC ^^ I hope you all enjoyed ogling them as much as I enjoyed drawing them.
Again, my apologies that they were causing some people grief ^^;; As I said, I never realized. Oh, don't worry (particularly certain people who brought this up with me on IRC last night), I will draw for MotK again from time to time, but most likely not ijiyatsu fan art.
Also, I guess everyone else has said what needs to be said. Thanks to the mods and admin for their fearless efforts in bringing the forum closer together. As I said, I had no idea these things were happening, and it takes courage on their part to do what needs to be done to fix what needs to be fixed. It's one thing to do the right thing, it's another to do it when you know you might be wrongly antagonized by doing it. For that, they earn our respect.
I'll be sure to drop by CPMC again whenever something interesting happens, like the dating challenge coming soon. Till then!
-
I think you're completely misunderstanding things. Your Ijiyatsu art threads weren't a problem at all, they were just in the wrong place :\
Don't think of this as a clamp down on CPMC. If anything we just want you guys to branch out more, and make CPMC's naturally exclusive culture more inviting. Look at poringleaf, didn't even have enough posts to post in CPMC but still drew some amazing Ijiyatsu art. Same with Rika's Garage, what if a really talented DMF scripter hangs out there or finds it and wants to participate but can't because of the 10 post wall. Why should we exclude people like that?
Really, the only reason the ten post limit exists is because there are tangible security issues at play here, and CPMC/UGW by their nature encourage posting a lot. Avatars and PMs are restricted to people with 10 posts or more due to several possible security exploits, and to curb spam (real spam not CPMC spam). The ten post limit on CPMC/UGW was to stop people from being able to just drop in there and spam their 10 posts without actually interacting with the community. It was never meant to be a barrier of entry to stop new people from being able to participate in CPMC/UGW.
So by moving Ijiyatsu and other stuff out of CPMC, this allows the culture of CPMC to reach other parts of the forum who may not be familiar, as well as bridging a gap and giving new people a chance to fit themselves in. Really how we see it is that a lot of the other subforums aren't very enticing to post because why post out there if the same threads are in CPMC but with the people you're familiar with?
Simply it's just a measure to get CPMC to break out of the current isolationist shell it's in, and to get the rest of the forum to also be able to participate. And to really share what kind of talents the CPMC members have. CPMC was never meant to be "All of MotK except with a 10 post barrier", it was meant to be the silly off-topic humor forum.
-
To be honest, this community is A LOT better than most other communities I've been on, and not only will I thank the mods and admins for this, but for the majority of the members here that made it so. You guys are fun to hang with. I don't know how this place became the place where most kids got shoved out of /jp/, but again, never went on that place so no comment there.
Your standard is Flash Flash Revolution. Your outlook on other communities has nowhere to go but up.
(That said, I still think you shouldn't have to spend months Getting To Know a moderator before they don't come off as an egotistical prick.)
The way I see it (and have seen it for a while not only here but in other forums as well), if a moderator comes off as anything but a stoic judge who knows his power and lets everyone know of it as well, users will test you to see how far they can go. Showing any semblance of softness as a mod can and usually will result in poor moderation decisions through favoritism, fear of hurting feelings, or not wanting to rock the boat. As a moderator, I cannot allow that, and the best way to nip that problem in the bud is to become the jerk mod that I am while still being a reasonable and fun user second.
Moderator positions are often thankless ones due to the fact that we do have the power and sometimes exercise it much to our own dismay, and either because people don't agree with the decision or don't like authority in general, we are the bad guys that everyone wants to hide from. It's an unfortunate truth.
Also, the "egotistical prick" persona is really very much a personal thing as well. As it turns out, I've had people in real life wonder if I hate them or not because of my sense of humor and how I act, and eventually they come to discover that not only do I like them, but they can turn to me for pretty much anything. It may some social defect of mine, but I really do mean well.
The only create.swf comic I follow is yours. How many of them have Koishi in them. Only three
It worries me that you've kept count.
-
I am so tsundere.
It's cool 8)
-
Your standard is Flash Flash Revolution. Your outlook on other communities has nowhere to go but up.
Not counting that place. Thank god it's dead now (literally).
It worries me that you've kept count.
Kinda easy when when the number of fics I read are just a little over my finger count.
(also, I might PM you about the pack and you submitting files if you're still interested).
-
*phew* Finally read through this whole thing. Trying to keep a social life outside the forum happy when ZOMG stuff is happening here is difficult. Anyway. I'll try and keep this short since it'd be hard to find something to say without being redundant at this point. :x
Letty: I'm happy you did this. Not only did you dispel a lot of the unintentional intimidating aura around you, but you gave everyone a chance to communicate with each other directly. Really, a 'public callout' for those that'd like to call it that is the only way to effectively resolve conflicts of these natures, because there's no way to fix a lack of communication without communicating, and this makes sure everyone's on the same page.
TSO, Purv: About the debate of being a 'friend' over being a 'mod', I don't think you two are as on opposite sides as you think. I doubt Purvis means to play favorites, and I don't think TSO is arguing that it's okay to be a jerk.
Purvis was responding to Vic's comment, which basically said "it's cool to be a Jerk mod". But is a mod really being a jerk if their punishments are justified? If I were to blatantly disregard the rules, it shouldn't matter who I am when it comes to punishment. In my shoes, I might be like "Oh man what a jerk", but anyone else looking at the situation can see that it's not jerkiness if it was justified.
As is made clear from this post, there is NO intention of the mods being jerks for the sake of being a jerk. Or if you want to look at it at a different fashion, the mods treat even the newest and unfamiliar member the same way as they would treat their closest friend, when it comes to administrating. :) That makes it sound a lot more appealing, heh.
-
I think you're completely misunderstanding things. Your Ijiyatsu art threads weren't a problem at all, they were just in the wrong place :\
I can see where people are coming from with ijiyatsu being a form of 'elitism'. Anyhow, even if that were not so, I somehow have my doubts people outside CPMC would understand ijiyatsu and appreciate ijiyatsu art. Let's face it. Frankly, it's art for what is essentially a big self-insert fest.
I don't think they are obliged to try and understand either and I would wholeheartedly understand if they either laugh at the very idea or even feel creeped out by it. It is, in all senses of the word, silly, and the only thing that made it okay to do was because it was being done in a subforum where silly was not only okay, it was encouraged. Now that it's in what I believe is very much a serious subforum, well....
Long story short - ijiyatsu is fun, yet silly, and it was okay because it was done in a silly subforum. Now the art thread is out there in what is a serious subforum amongst other serious threads with serious artists. You get the idea.
-
(also, I might PM you about the pack and you submitting files if you're still interested).
Sure, I have some things lying around that need homes. IMing me is also acceptable.
I can see where people are coming from with ijiyatsu being a form of 'elitism'. Anyhow, even if that were not so, I somehow have my doubts people outside CPMC would understand ijiyatsu and appreciate ijiyatsu art. Let's face it. Frankly, it's art for what is essentially a big self-insert fest.
I've sent people who don't even post here pictures of A-F's version of Ijiyatsu Letty and TSO. Believe me, it interests them.
-
I've sent people who don't even post her pictures of A-F's version of Ijiyatsu Letty and TSO.
What
You fuckass >:|
-
Anyhow, even if that were not so, I somehow have my doubts people outside CPMC would understand ijiyatsu and appreciate ijiyatsu art. Let's face it. Frankly, it's art for what is essentially a big self-insert fest.
Ijiyatsu was one of the first things I ever saw here and I found it pretty interesting, if that counts for anything.
-
I've sent people who don't even post her pictures of A-F's version of Ijiyatsu Letty and TSO. Believe me, it interests them.
Point is - art that was supposed to be completely for fun and gags is being placed in a place where art is taken seriously.
-
I am also tsundere.
8)
-
8)
And that has WHAT to do with anything?
-
I can see where people are coming from with ijiyatsu being a form of 'elitism'. Anyhow, even if that were not so, I somehow have my doubts people outside CPMC would understand ijiyatsu and appreciate ijiyatsu art. Let's face it. Frankly, it's art for what is essentially a big self-insert fest.
How do you know? Once again I'll bring up poringleaf who had never posted in CPMC prior and didn't even have enough, and yet still created fanart. Just because it has CPMC members as the main focus doesn't mean there's no appeal outside of CPMC. If anything it has very wide appeal considering it's one of the first major Western DMF projects.
I don't think they are obliged to try and understand either and I would wholeheartedly understand if they either laugh at the very idea or even feel creeped out by it. It is, in all senses of the word, silly, and the only thing that made it okay to do was because it was being done in a subforum where silly was not only okay, it was encouraged. Now that it's in what I believe is very much a serious subforum, well....
CF is a serious subforum? When did that happen? It's just a subforum for people to post their writings and art. There's absolutely nothing "serious business" about it.
Long story short - ijiyatsu is fun, yet silly, and it was okay because it was done in a silly subforum. Now the art thread is out there in what is a serious subforum amongst other serious threads with serious artists. You get the idea.
I consider your art serious art and you a serious artist. Stop self-depreciating yourself so much. Just because the concept art is personifying members of MotK doesn't make it any less "serious" than someone doodling Koishi.
-
"The vague existence of reputation" sounds like the title of a touhou game :V
I have nothing inteligent to add.
-
So why are we all acting that now that, ok, some threads have moved out of CPMC, we all need to like... pack up out bags and bid farewell?
Guys, the forum still is a click away. I load the page in milliseconds. Same stuff's more or less here. There's no need to say goodbye or even act like much has changed.
-
UK calm down, otherwise this will probably not end well and we don't want that to happen.
And by gosh, this is turning into a warzone.
-
Oh, well then.
-
I'm at a public library and as such I don't have much time to offer anything of much importance, BUT I do feel compelled to reiterate one point, then (no doubt inspired by where I am) offer a suggestion.
CPMC is not the whole forum. It has been said over and over again. There are lots of other places where you can go and have fun discussing Touhou or enjoying the danmaku, and yes, find newbies and the like who can't post in CPMC that you may have missed up until now because you've been spending all your time here.
I don't think I've been spending much time here myself lately, and that brings me to my suggestion:
OH GOD FANWORKS NEEDS SOME FANS PLEASE. THEY'RE STARVED FOR ATTENTION OVER THERE. SUPPORT THE STARVING WRITERS AND ARTISTS PLEASE. ;_;
I maintain at least two ongoing pieces of fiction over there (I'm pretty sure I won't be able to write Kurumi and Elly again, btw) and it pains me to glance through other writers' threads and see how little feedback they get. I am half convinced that the only reason I get reviews is because of my "position" here in the CPMC community, and not because of the actual quality of my work. Don't get me wrong: I love it when you guys read Sweet Dreams and tell me that you are eagerly waiting for my next installment. But I am not the only person who writes in fanworks, and neither is Roukanken, or Muffin, or UD, or Mima.
Anyone who writes-- hell, anyone who pursues a creative endeavour, be it music or art or literature-- knows how much it stings to see that their work goes unnoticed. I've seen too many writers insert messages like "I would love to see reviews if anyone is actually reading this" at the end of their latest update. While I think it's part of growth as an artist to keep going even though no one cares, I know from personal experience that it feels great to get recognition. To use a flowery simile metaphor, when I was first starting out writing on the old forums, seeing someone post in White Rose saying "I love your work and I want to see more" made me want to leap out of my chair and dance amongst the clouds.
I cannot stress this enough: there are lots of quality works in Fanworks that could use just as much attention as any thread in CPMC, and I do think they need more attention than they currently recieve. It's gotten to the point that some people have posted their fanworks here and not there, and here I will unfairly single out Mode and her Ijiyatsu fiction, which is actually kind of justified since Fanworks is reserved for Touhou fanworks, not Ijiyatsu. To use a better example, I will point to A-F's and Slaves' art threads, which have been moved to Fanworks because that's where they should have been all along (even though effectively half the content in there isn't Touhou-related, I think it's justified because artists do like to post unrelated stuff sometimes to see the reactions).
In any case, I reiterate my plea: Get out of CPMC more often and check out the content on other portions of the site. And no, not just Fanworks; Outside World could use some more attention. Go there and talk about the news or what books you read or the latest stupid law you've seen pass on the evening news. Everything Else exists for a reason, and so does Touhou Addict Recovery Centre. The latter especially is home to a lot of newbies who would love to get to know this site better but are denied the chance because none of the really vivacious personalities go there anymore, preferring to stay holed up in CPMC. This place will not lose its tight-knit nature and it will not implode overnight if you stop paying attention to it for a while. There are plenty of other boards, sub-boards, and threads that would really love your patronage, too.
Warning - while you were typing 10 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
For the love of god, will you people just stop arguing amongst one another? UK, I like you a lot, but you really need to stop jumping at every slight criticism of your behaviour and attitude, because it is not unwarranted.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Ugh, forget it. I wanted to say what I wrote above, and whether or not anyone notices (and I would bet money that they won't, but I've given up gambling) I've said what I wanted to say and I'm through here.
-
How do you know? Once again I'll bring up poringleaf who had never posted in CPMC prior and didn't even have enough, and yet still created fanart. Just because it has CPMC members as the main focus doesn't mean there's no appeal outside of CPMC. If anything it has very wide appeal considering it's one of the first major Western DMF projects.
CF is a serious subforum? When did that happen? It's just a subforum for people to post their writings and art. There's absolutely nothing "serious business" about it.
I consider your art serious art and you a serious artist. Stop self-depreciating yourself so much. Just because the concept art is personifying members of MotK doesn't make it any less "serious" than someone doodling Koishi.
Thanks, TSO ^^ I appreciate that. Still, it doesn't change the fact that what I've been drawing are self-insert OCs. I'm also a fanfic writer and in fanfic terms it's like writing a self-insert Mary Sue fanfic. Serious fanfic writers wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick, unless it was in a very limited gag circle.
The same applies here. As you pointed out, I am a serious artist. I would only draw these things in a gag circle. And you may not see CF as a serious place but artists and writers take what they do very, very seriously. I know. I was the first art poster on the 'post your artwork' thread.
In short - I didn't want to put it this frankly for fear of offending anyone, but not only am I uncomfortable with posting any new ijiyatsu art there, I'm uncomfortable with my ijiyatsu art being in that subforum at all. In fact, I have half a mind to request that you simply lock my ijiyatsu art thread and archive it in the archive section of CPMC. If people want another general ijiyatsu art thread, they can start a new one.
Still, I wholly understand your reasoning behind moving the art threads. It is in every way logical. In fact, my thoughts on the matter might not seem logical at all from the point of view of others and I can understand that. This is irrational behaviour. The other ijiyatsu artists might not see this the same way I do. It is wholly a personal thing and there is nobody to blame but myself for thinking this way. Still, it doesn't change the fact that this is how I feel about my art thread being moved.
-
Point is - art that was supposed to be completely for fun and gags is being placed in a place where art is taken seriously.
Do people not take every piece of art that they make seriously, even if it looks silly like a lot of Slaves's stuff?
edit: Holy crap, what just happened. *plays reading catch-up*
-
EDIT: this came out late. Disregard it ^^;;
UK, what the others said. I don't quite understand the overall issue but I agree with you in that, yes, a few things could have been handled with a little more subtlety and care by certain people here. However, responding in kind...or rather, responding with extreme hostility, on your part, simply makes you just as bad, if not worse. Please do calm down. We all know you and love you enough not to see you any worse for whatever people might say. Your reputation cannot be marred that easily ^^
-
I would be happy to split this thread into a new one for you. Is this all right with you?
If no one cares. It might not even be worth a thread.
-
I would say it is if you wish to debate this further.
-
OH GOD FANWORKS NEEDS SOME FANS PLEASE. THEY'RE STARVED FOR ATTENTION OVER THERE. SUPPORT THE STARVING WRITERS AND ARTISTS PLEASE. ;_;
<excellent points>
Speaking as a writer who has been internettin' it for about a decade now, this is always the case with fiction, particularly fan fiction. It takes desire, time, and attention to read things and comment on them intelligently. Many people don't care to do it.
You want to drum up attention for people's stuff? (Get someone to) Write a <time period-based repetition> literary review of the works going on there. Give a quick summary, both of the story's events and the type of story, then link it. Then post it up in Math Class or Everything Else or wherever you think people need to see it. Maybe spotlight older works worthy of attention. It'll help people know what's what and what's interesting, and natural curiosity will follow.
If you're really brave, add in some ratings. But be aware this will lead to a huge amount of whining and whinging. But it would be a hella service.
-
I would say it is if you wish to debate this further.
I wish to debate it further. That doesn't necessarily mean anyone ELSE does. Quite frankly, the way I bungled the opening comments does not make many favorably disposed towards debate. I'm basically tempted to request that if they do have counterpoints, just tell me privately and we'll work it out. But, then I lose the advantage of having my stance publically known to avoid misunderstandings. It's rather tricky.
-
I would say it is if you wish to debate this further.
Don't touch it.
-
You got it. o7
All right, I'm seriously out of this now. Later, folks.
-
(Superb Idea.Net)
This is an excellent idea. If not Rawro, Someone should do this.
-
Thanks, TSO ^^ I appreciate that. Still, it doesn't change the fact that what I've been drawing are self-insert OCs. I'm also a fanfic writer and in fanfic terms it's like writing a self-insert Mary Sue fanfic. Serious fanfic writers wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick, unless it was in a very limited gag circle.
Not to be pedantic but it's hardly a self-insert when the whole story of Ijiyatsu is supposed to be a "Touhouification" of the usual antics of this very forum community.
The same applies here. As you pointed out, I am a serious artist. I would only draw these things in a gag circle. And you may not see CF as a serious place but artists and writers take what they do very, very seriously. I know. I was the first art poster on the 'post your artwork' thread.
What I meant by serious is that you're not going to get scalding criticism for using made up characters instead of drawing yet another Reimu. And if you do I'd more likely beat that person down for being such a closed minded idiot.
In short - I didn't want to put it this frankly for fear of offending anyone, but not only am I uncomfortable with posting any new ijiyatsu art there, I'm uncomfortable with my ijiyatsu art being in that subforum at all. In fact, I have half a mind to request that you simply lock my ijiyatsu art thread and archive it in the archive section of CPMC. If people want another general ijiyatsu art thread, they can start a new one.
Not to sound insensitive, but it sounds to me like you're ashamed of your Ijiyatsu work. And you only did it because CPMC is a more "walled garden" type forum. If you're ashamed of drawing me or any other member's Ijiyatsu persona, I'm not exactly sure why. The art is fantastic and you really have taken the initial designs and added a whole new dimension to them.
Still, I wholly understand your reasoning behind moving the art threads. It is in every way logical. In fact, my thoughts on the matter might not seem logical at all from the point of view of others and I can understand that. This is irrational behaviour. The other ijiyatsu artists might not see this the same way I do. It is wholly a personal thing and there is nobody to blame but myself for thinking this way. Still, it doesn't change the fact that this is how I feel about my art thread being moved.
I just think you lack self-confidence in your abilities and image more than anything. To me it seems like you think Ijiyatsu isn't something serious and therefore tarnishes your outward appearance as a "serious" artist, when the truth couldn't be more farther away. But I respect your feelings and I would respect any decision you made, I just wish you'd reconsider :<
-
Just saying, can something really be considered a self-insert if everyone else in it is a self-insert as well?
-
Before I unlock this topic, do NOT bring up anything more regarding UK/Letty. This has done nothing good except shit up an otherwise decent thread.
UK or Letty, if you have really anything further to discuss take it to private, as NOTHING is getting accomplished in a screaming match out here.
-
Before I unlock this topic, do NOT bring up anything more regarding UK/Letty. This has done nothing good except shit up an otherwise decent thread.
Interestingly enough, it has actually resulted in some progress, so it wasn't entirely for naught. That being said, it is done. Carry on.
-
Warning - while you were reading and writing googolplex new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post, for it is old and no ones give a fuck anymore because it is out of context.
Fuck. Just when I thought I'd read it all. :V
Well I have nothing to do with UK's issue, and I like UK but I really don't get what the shit is going on so I'm gonna stay out of it.
As to the rest, I'll be short. As I don't go to IRC nor understand it and it's issues I won't adress them either, so Imma stick to CPMC and mods. Maybe just the mods, because I've been wanting to say this for a while.
From the very moment I arrived here, I loved Letty and hated TSO. And for each I'll write a paragraph.
I think I'll start with Letty. Maybe the fact that I'm also IRL misinterpreted as being a cold and insensitive prick, arrogant and agressive even, is why I never pictured you as a harsh modictator who hit everyone in the ass with the banhammer.
I always saw your decisions as being at least rational, even when I didn't agree with them. And if I didn't make it clear that I didn't agree is because I believed they weren't issues.
You also made it clear that you're reachable and talkable to. That time when I had to study and asked you for a 7 seven day probation, in 5 minutes I couldn't access the site and was like 'what the fuck :V'
On to TSO.
You seem like you're unreachable. You sometimes pass the idea that you don't give a fuck about some rules because you're the admin and you can do what you want.
Those two issues bother me a lot.
Back when Donut was called out by the mod team, the first post, by Kilga if my memory doesn't fail me, clearly said we could and should express our opinions on the matter,and so i did.
I did not in any moment say anything near ''hoho Donut you're in trouble'', I made my point and suggested solutions, and yet you showed up making this gigantic post in which you dedicated a paragraph to 'explain' how the thread wasn't there for the members to say what they thought, it was to publicly humilliate a troublemaker. I remember even Letty making a post disagreeing with you on that, which you deleted and replaced with a post by you saying you didn't want to be adressed publicly like that.
That paragraph started with the sentences "HakureiSM, shut the fuck up. I could also make a list of behaviours from you too''. Now that's one way of making me angry.
I decided to PM you about it once or twice, because if we're to speak up, you as mod are too. If you have a problem with me, goddammit tell me what it is and I'll do my best to resolve it.
I never got a reply. If I had behaviour issues back then, I probably still have them, because you refused to communicate with a member and tell him whatever he did wrong.
All that said, I also in no way believe you're a bad person because of my personal problems with you. Even if I really hate you, I respect you more than anyone else here, for the fact that you're the one keeping everything up, and not doing this because of you and your ego, but because you actually care about the community. I value that a lot.
-
I'm going to make a controversial statement here.
Note #1: This will be my first time speaking to anyone involved in this topic about this subject.
Note #2: These are my own personal feelings and do not represent the opinions of any other staff member, nor do they represent the MotK staff position on the whole.
Now then.
I endorse public callouts over private communication.
I am sure some of you that do not had the kneejerk reaction of "Kilga endorses public humiliation/ostracization/whateveration!" when they read that. I'd be lying if I said that was false, because there are certain circumstances where I find public humiliation amusing (the Snowball Challenges, for one, and I know I'm not the only one that finds those funny), but this is certainly not one of them. Let me go over my exact thought process here, using my own experiences as an example.
I prefer public callouts, first and foremost, because they engage the public (obviously). As much as I endorse people speaking up when they have issues with other people, one of the common misconceptions about User A having an issue with User B is that the fault lies with User B and they need to change. This is not inherently true, and it is why having the public get involved can be very useful, as they can go along way in determining how to resolve the issue. Maybe a lot of them have the same problem User A does with User B and have simply been too busy/lazy/sensitive/cowardly/whatever to tell User B. Maybe none of them share User A's feelings and User A is just being a jerk.
If the public generally agrees with User A, then the problem most likely does lie with User B and they need an attitude adjustment. However, if the public generally has a hard time seeing where User A is coming from and doesn't share that same problem with User B, then it is User A that needs the attitude adjustment.
Now, I know this looks like a whole bunch of hypotheticals, and I did promise examples from my own experience! I will share one of each.
Example 1: Several weeks ago, it was brought to my attention that Benny had a major issue with how I presented my opinions. I make no secret that I am loud and brash and frank about my feelings. I do this because I have a lot of fun carrying myself this way, and quite honestly I'm more concerned with my happiness than the happiness of any other individual on this forum. I had actually been told this one before in private, but that was so inconsequential to me I couldn't even tell you who it was that brought it up. My response was "I'm sorry that you don't like this, but it's how I like to conduct myself" and effectively told them to go eat a ham*. When Benny approached me in public about the same issue I was prepared to give it the same treatment until a bunch of other people started agreeing with him about it. Xan, Nobu, and a few others all spoke up about how yes indeed my presentation was obnoxious. Of course I got defensive at the time; my preferred e-lifestyle was coming under assault, it was a natural reaction. However, it didn't take me long to realize that, if this many users take exception to my e-lifestyle, then I'm the one that needs to change. I would like to think that I've been better about it since, as I've been watching myself more and have yet to receive another complaint about it. (Benny, it would be much appreciated if you can confirm this.)
Example 2: Around the same time, I got frustrated with one thing or another and let it known that I don't like how Nobu conducts himself. I feel that he handles himself in a very gotta-be-right-all-the-time know-it-all fashion, and this attitude irritates me to no end, no matter how many times I see it (and we've all seen it a lot in our internet travels, I'm sure - hell, even just on MotK, Nobu's hardly the only one I think falls under this description, but that's another discussion for another time). This issue was made public, Nobu got defensive (again, understandably so), and people started tuning in. I watched a bunch of responses that all amounted too "I dunno, I've never really seen Nobu that way". This told me that the problem in this case was with me, not with Nobu, and while I still think he tends to act like a gotta-be-right-all-the-time know-it-all, I don't expect him to change the way he conducts himself purely for my benefit, because that's unfair to him.
So there you go. I've seen public callouts get tangible optimal results, and I've seen private communication fail. You'll note the asterisk in Example 1: There's a great instance of why I don't like private communication all that much. It's far too easy for User B to simply brush User A off in the confines of a PM window, because User B doesn't necessarily see the big picture. Similarly, what if I had gone to Nobu in private and he actually decided there was a problem on his end and set out to change himself just because someone had raised an issue? What if he had assumed that, because I brought an issue to his attention, perhaps many users other felt the same way? Then he'd be altering his conduct an e-lifestyle enjoyment under false pretenses, and that's not fair.
I have no real good way to conclude this. Pretend there's some awesome summation here.
EDIT: Just thought of one.
If User A raises an issue with User B publicly and the general public consensus is "for the love of Christ will you two shut the hell up", then I endorse private communication. >_>
EDIT 2: Fixed a typo and changed the all-inclusive nature of the opening paragraph. That was unfair of me.
-
The conclusion I draw, Kilga, is it depends on the person. But you make a VERY compelling argument for Public callouts I didn't consider.
-
Before I unlock this topic, do NOT bring up anything more regarding UK/Letty. This has done nothing good except shit up an otherwise decent thread.
Alright let's address something else then.
Just saying, can something really be considered a self-insert if everyone else in it is a self-insert as well?
Yes, it would still be self-insert.
No, there's nothing wrong with it.
Self inserts seem to have a huge negative conotations thanks to the large number of self-insert fanfics on the internet written by 13 year olds, depicting themselves as ultra heros or godly beings or other things like that. It's like anyone who uses one is childish, self-centered, and idiot and a whole bunch of other things. Our view has been skewed thanks to the explosive reception of things like "My Immortal".
The thing is, it's just another writing technique. For instance people like Kinoko Nasu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinoko_Nasu) and Ume Aoki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ume_Aoki) have a little mini self insert char for humourous effect. Even the great "Godfather of Anime and Manga" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osamu_Tezuka) had himself as a character sometimes. It's something to use if it would increase the amount of amusement for the readers or watchers or even players. It is just for entertainment after all. In our case, having Touhou representations of ourselfs act as the characters makes it all more personal.
The only issue is if we take it too far, which really no one has really even come close to. Things like arguing over characters ("my power should be this, no I should look like this, now wa you are stronger than me!"), being too connected to the characters in general ("my char my rules! I choose who she gets to be, what she had, etc"), or other childish things will bring up problems for everyone, but as it stands, we're having fun making up characters who are only LOOSELY based on us, and other people can still enjoy it because of the wonderful art, silly character quirks, and the game that will hopefully exist someday (just make sure to give it time :V)
-
On to TSO.
You seem like you're unreachable. You sometimes pass the idea that you don't give a fuck about some rules because you're the admin and you can do what you want.
Ok point out a single instance where I acted like I was above the rules. Do it, I'm really interested. As for unreachable I have a busy life, sorry I'm not at everyone's beck and call 24/7.
Those two issues bother me a lot.
Back when Donut was called out by the mod team, the first post, by Kilga if my memory doesn't fail me, clearly said we could and should express our opinions on the matter,and so i did.
I did not in any moment say anything near ''hoho Donut you're in trouble'', I made my point and suggested solutions, and yet you showed up making this gigantic post in which you dedicated a paragraph to 'explain' how the thread wasn't there for the members to say what they thought, it was to publicly humilliate a troublemaker. I remember even Letty making a post disagreeing with you on that, which you deleted and replaced with a post by you saying you didn't want to be adressed publicly like that.
I never deleted Letty's post, and would never delete a post calling me out. If it disappeared Letty or someone else did it, not me. As for that whole thing, the thread was intended to show to Donut how his behavior was affecting those around him, not to rag on him and put him down. I interpreted your post as having nothing more than a "oh you're in trouble" and I used you as an example of what not to say. If you're offended by that sorry but you were an example of a useless post in a serious discussion thread about another user.
That paragraph started with the sentences "HakureiSM, shut the fuck up. I could also make a list of behaviours from you too''. Now that's one way of making me angry.
I decided to PM you about it once or twice, because if we're to speak up, you as mod are too. If you have a problem with me, goddammit tell me what it is and I'll do my best to resolve it.
I had no specific problems with you. There's a saying that goes "don't point out the splinter in someone's eye if you can't see the plank in your own". Basically saying, don't rag on other people's problems when most likely you have just as many as they do. Once again the purpose of the "callout" thread is to show how someone's bad behavior is negatively affecting those around them, not to nitpick every single flaw someone has.
I never got a reply. If I had behaviour issues back then, I probably still have them, because you refused to communicate with a member and tell him whatever he did wrong.
I probably didn't get it. Around that time I was working on the PM system and it probably got ate. Even then I typically get about 20-30 PMs/day. If I don't reply immediately it's not because I hate you or want to ignore you, I probably either overlooked it or just didn't notice. If you really want to get my attention, use the report button, send me an IM, or poke me on #shrinemaiden (I'm always idling there in some capacity). You could have easily hit report on my post and ask for an explanation of what I said.
Either way it's done and over with so I'm not exactly sure why you're still harboring such hatred over one little thing.
All that said, I also in no way believe you're a bad person because of my personal problems with you. Even if I really hate you, I respect you more than anyone else here, for the fact that you're the one keeping everything up, and not doing this because of you and your ego, but because you actually care about the community. I value that a lot.
Awesome, hated but respected. That makes me feel wonderful inside </sarcasm>
I like how all the stuff about how I'm a terrible mod finally comes out of the woodwork when I'm not around, instead of questionable decisions brought to my attention immediately. I've said time and again you'll never get chastised or punished for bringing up an issue and I am more than willing to listen. I've PLEADED with you guys several times to tell me what's wrong, that includes what's wrong with how I handle things. If I don't hear any complaints I'm just going to assume I'm doing ok. I'm not a mind reader :\
-
That was a very articulate outburst, Kilga.
-
You want to drum up attention for people's stuff? (Get someone to) Write a <time period-based repetition> literary review of the works going on there. Give a quick summary, both of the story's events and the type of story, then link it. Then post it up in Math Class or Everything Else or wherever you think people need to see it. Maybe spotlight older works worthy of attention. It'll help people know what's what and what's interesting, and natural curiosity will follow.
I've actually been mulling the idea of this over in my head for the past few hours. If he doesn't want to, I'll probably write it and then give it to Mima to post, because hell, he's the one actually in charge of that and I'm not enough of a hierarchy fanatic to try and one-up him in a forum that has been trusted to him. If he's not interested in doing this (and actually we've been debating the idea of making a fanworks repository not on this site, but that's neither here nor there), then I shall match my actions to my words and take care of it myself. It'll take some time, but I am more than willing to give it a shot o>
On a somewhat unrelated note, I find Snowball challenges to be insanely stupid and not funny at all, which is why I avoid them like the plague when they do show up. That's just my choice, I guess. Also, my experience with SomethingAwful is limited to the Sakura Taisen LP and that alone, so if CPMC is really based on something they've done, I had no idea until just a while ago. ???
Oh god time to play catch-up again
-
That was a very articulate outburst, Kilga.
As much as I dislike pseudointellectual attitudes, I wholly enjoy the practice of :words:
-
As much as I dislike pseudointellectual attitudes, I wholly enjoy the practice of :wikipedia:
there you go :V
-
I've actually been mulling the idea of this over in my head for the past few hours. If he doesn't want to, I'll probably write it and then give it to Mima to post, because hell, he's the one actually in charge of that and I'm not enough of a hierarchy fanatic to try and one-up him in a forum that has been trusted to him. If he's not interested in doing this (and actually we've been debating the idea of making a fanworks repository not on this site, but that's neither here nor there), then I shall match my actions to my words and take care of it myself. It'll take some time, but I am more than willing to give it a shot o>
You do it, and post it in Front Page as some sort of "Let's Tour MotK" or something like that. Introducing people to the ofttimes less visited corners. I would love to get people familiar with other parts of the forum they may fail to venture out into, and especially introduce new people to stuff we have to offer.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I find Snowball challenges to be insanely stupid and not funny at all, which is why I avoid them like the plague when they do show up. That's just my choice, I guess.
Basically Snowball challenges are enacted against people we know are going to get banned for various reasons, but would like to give a chance at redemption. If they can complete the Snowball challenge they would have provided MotK with some entertainment as well as show that we're not all just serious business GET OUT. They're not designed to be impossible or ridiculing. They're meant to address the specific issue we have with them, and to get them to redeem themselves.
There's only been 2 snowball challenges and one of them was Chagen. The only problem we had with Chagen was how he took things way too seriously, and the purpose of the challenge was to get him to lighten up. If he did we'd have no more problems with him, but since he couldn't he got ejected.
Also, my experience with SomethingAwful is limited to the Sakura Taisen LP and that alone, so if CPMC is really based on something they've done, I had no idea until just a while ago. ???
Basically I stole the Idiot challenges from FYAD. They appoint forum mods called Idiot Kings through various insane challenges like "post the best wiki vandalism" and stuff like that, and they serve limited terms. I wanted to bring some sort of life to the forums and build comraderie, so I modified the challenges and started them here. Letty had the idea to roll it into its own subforum and run it like a YCS (Your Console Sucks), a place to have humorous and off the wall threads about "Touhou 14, Yuyuko's Magical Pickle" and stuff like that.
-
there you go :V
I like it better when the emote is implied.
I must admit, for as aggravating as "I would, but :effort: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4818.msg236554#msg236554)" was, I still chuckled at it a little bit.
-
You do it, and post it in Front Page as some sort of "Let's Tour MotK" or something like that. Introducing people to the ofttimes less visited corners. I would love to get people familiar with other parts of the forum they may fail to venture out into, and especially introduce new people to stuff we have to offer.
That would be so much fun to do. I'll get started on this task right away. Might take a while to read literally everything in CF, but I'll certainly do it o>
As for the Snowball challenges, I now see the point of them, though I am still not overfond of the idea behind them. I poked my head into the first one and thought it wasn't any fun at all, and that idea stayed in my head when I saw the second one (even though I knew Chagen could have really used a stupid challenge to help get his head out of his ass) but that is because I don't have a sense of humour, which is entirely my fault and is not something you should feel compelled to correct.
Basically I stole the Idiot challenges from FYAD. They appoint forum mods called Idiot Kings through various insane challenges like "post the best wiki vandalism" and stuff like that, and they serve limited terms. I wanted to bring some sort of life to the forums and build comraderie, so I modified the challenges and started them here. Letty had the idea to roll it into its own subforum and run it like a YCS (Your Console Sucks), a place to have humorous and off the wall threads about "Touhou 14, Yuyuko's Magical Pickle" and stuff like that.
Oh. Neat, I didn't know this. What does FYAD stand for, though?
-
Fuck You And Die.
-
Yes, that's seriously it.
-
Kilga: I certainly haven't seen you being excessive with your opinions (I can't think of a good way to word it) which is very nice.
Public callouts are iffy. It certainly can work very well sometimes, like with Kilga's examples, but the problem is public callouts can also lead to "I hate you" bandwagons which I do not enjoy seeing and should not happen.
It's a touchy issue, really. Oh well. It can be very effective, and it can be a nightmare.
-
Public callouts can, theoretically, lead to hate trains, but in this most recent example we see people taking great pains to emphasize their caring and respect while fiing their grievances. So we got that going for us.
-
Fuck You And Die.
I thought it was Fuck Yourself And Die, as in "go fuck yourself and die, you moron" or equivalent. Could be wrong though, haven't been on SA in ages. Not really my type of forum.
-
I thought it was Fuck Yourself And Die, as in "go fuck yourself and die, you moron" or equivalent. Could be wrong though, haven't been on SA in ages. Not really my type of forum.
It was originally designed as a parody place for people to go in and go "you suck. no, you suck. hey, fuck you, man, i hate you. you suck." It eventually became its own thing.
-
It was originally designed as a parody place for people to go in and go "you suck. no, you suck. hey, fuck you, man, i hate you. you suck." It eventually became its own thing.
:3 (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/177670/angeltype-chibi-comic-flandre_scarlet-highres-izay)
-
:3 (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/177670/angeltype-chibi-comic-flandre_scarlet-highres-izay)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8flLpb3zXA
-
Ok point out a single instance where I acted like I was above the rules. Do it, I'm really interested. As for unreachable I have a busy life, sorry I'm not at everyone's beck and call 24/7.
Shit, I forgot to make that part clearer, sorry.
A while ago a few threds in CPMC were classified as attention whoring.
They were pointless threads usually starting with whatever information about one's live that did not create real discussions.
It was encouraged not to make these threads, and they would and are locked when found. Even when some didn't agree, most did, and everyone behaved accordingly, as we all stopped making them.
But Th (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4473.0)e (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4565.0)se (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4074.0) are a few examples of threads you created, that fit in the exact same profile that was discouraged.
That's what I meant by acting above the rules, that's all.
I never deleted Letty's post, and would never delete a post calling me out. If it disappeared Letty or someone else did it, not me.
Ok, I shouldn't have said you deleted it.
I interpreted your post as having nothing more than a "oh you're in trouble" and I used you as an example of what not to say. If you're offended by that sorry but you were an example of a useless post in a serious discussion thread about another user.
Well then you seriously misinterpreted my post, because 'oh you're in trouble' was not what I said, and that was not what you said in yours. If I remember correctly, you said the thread was not a discussion at all, it was there purely to humilliate a troublemaker. My intention was never to rag or put Donut down, but you said it yourself that yours was.
I had no specific problems with you. There's a saying that goes "don't point out the splinter in someone's eye if you can't see the plank in your own". Basically saying, don't rag on other people's problems when most likely you have just as many as they do.
Well then, don't expect people to read your mind when you tell to 'shut the fuck up'. And like I said, I wasn't 'ragging', and if I have such problems I didn't notice. I PMed you right after, not saying "what the fuck is wrong with tell me huh I bet you can't", I sent you an honest and polite request to tell me if there was anything wrong with my behaviour.
Well I think it's better if I quote the whole message.
Good evening, TSO.
Concerning that thread on Donut, Kilga started it by saying people could offer whatever comments they may like, and so I did. I didn't go "lol Donut you're in trouble", sorry if that's what it sounded like. But considering the thread's title is "The Trial of one Nintendonut888", if it isn't about judgement, then I'm not sure what a trial is anymore.
But beyond that, TSO, I get the feeling that you didn't like me the moment I registered on MotK. But that might just be a wrong impression.
Still, back there you said you could probably point dozens of annoying behaviours on me too.
Please do. I'm serious, please do. The last thing I want is to be a bad person, not behave well, and annoy and offend others.
I always try really hard to be polite, sometimes overly, and I know at least IRL I have accomplished that. But if here that's not true, and my manners are affecting others, I'm humbly asking to please tell me how so.
Every place has it's way, and it's code.
If I haven't yet understood the spirit of MotK, please point me in the right direction. I don't wanna be a dick. The people here is way too good to deserve anyone who's lower than them, and I like them all a lot. I want to treat them as well as they treat me, and that includes you, who I've watched manage a whole website such as this with success and dignity.
I think that's all.
I probably didn't get it. Around that time I was working on the PM system and it probably got ate.
Well, I couldn't possibly have known that.
If you really want to get my attention, use the report button, send me an IM, or poke me on #shrinemaiden (I'm always idling there in some capacity). You could have easily hit report on my post and ask for an explanation of what I said.
I don't go to IRC, but I might start one of these days. And I've yet to add many people here to my msn.
As for the report button, you're completely right, I'm not used to it but I should know it's there for me.
I'm not a person who refuses to admit my errors and change for the best.
Awesome, hated but respected. That makes me feel wonderful inside </sarcasm>
Don't misinterpret me. Maybe hate is a word too strong and my engrish is attacking you. Maybe respect is a word too strong. I don't know. Point is, I like the fact that you're the one running this place, not someone else.
I like how all the stuff about how I'm a terrible mod finally comes out of the woodwork when I'm not around, instead of questionable decisions brought to my attention immediately. I've said time and again you'll never get chastised or punished for bringing up an issue and I am more than willing to listen. I've PLEADED with you guys several times to tell me what's wrong, that includes what's wrong with how I handle things. If I don't hear any complaints I'm just going to assume I'm doing ok. I'm not a mind reader :\
Well that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm not bashing on you or anything, I'm not pointlessly venting, I'm bringing up the issues.
And as I see it, you're around to see it.
This isn't a personal attack, don't be offended by it. I know I'm not.
-
Shit, I forgot to make that part clearer, sorry.
A while ago a few threds in CPMC were classified as attention whoring.
They were pointless threads usually starting with whatever information about one's live that did not create real discussions.
It was encouraged not to make these threads, and they would and are locked when found. Even when some didn't agree, most did, and everyone behaved accordingly, as we all stopped making them.
But Th (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4473.0)e (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4565.0)se (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4074.0) are a few examples of threads you created, that fit in the exact same profile that was discouraged.
That's what I meant by acting above the rules, that's all.
Look at what you just said. Attention whoring posts that others can't really participate in other than "that's great" and "me too". In every single one of those examples everyone else could easily participate in. One was a mock rage thread, one was about christmas gifts, and one was about having to do really boring things, and how you deal with it. There's no problem with self-centered threads, it's when there's nothing really for others to participate in are the problem.
Ok, I shouldn't have said you deleted it.Well then you seriously misinterpreted my post, because 'oh you're in trouble' was not what I said, and that was not what you said in yours. If I remember correctly, you said the thread was not a discussion at all, it was there purely to humilliate a troublemaker. My intention was never to rag or put Donut down, but you said it yourself that yours was.
??? I just said the thread was not meant to be a discussion about his faults, nor to humiliate him, but merely for people to say how his actions affected them.
-
??? I just said the thread was not meant to be a discussion about his faults, nor to humiliate him, but merely for people to say how his actions affected them.
The problem was that when the thread came out, that wasn't exactly clear, and you were incredibly hostile over people's responses, which is the exact reason why you and I got into the scuffle we did over it.
-
I just found the thread and read my posts and yours.
I really don't feel like going further with this because I see it's getting nowhere, and I'm really phisically tired, but I have to repeat that saying how his actions affected us was exactly what I did.
-
The problem was that when the thread came out, that wasn't exactly clear, and you were incredibly hostile over people's responses, which is the exact reason why you and I got into the scuffle we did over it.
Yeah I'll admit we weren't exactly communicating back then, but that's been done and buried.
-
Damn Kilga, amazing post. I don't think there's anything I disagree with you on here. Fully support your viewpoint, and couldn't have said it better myself. :3
On an aside, if anyone has any sort of issue with me, even if it's just the "I think you're kinda annoying sometimes" or "Do you *have* to be like ______ all the time?", please let me know. I don't think there's anyone here that i'm on 'bad terms' with, but I still hold that slight possibility of someone resenting me for some reason I haven't forseen.
Also, if I have somehow given anyone the impression that I dislike you or secretly resent you behind your back, let it be known that I mean it when I say I love all you guys. ^___^;
-
I love all of you just so damn much <3
On an aside, if anyone has any sort of issue with me, even if it's just the "I think you're kinda annoying sometimes" or "Do you *have* to be like ______ all the time?", please let me know. I don't think there's anyone here that i'm on 'bad terms' with, but I still hold that slight possibility of someone resenting me for some reason I haven't forseen.
Also, if I have somehow given anyone the impression that I dislike you or secretly resent you behind your back, let it be known that I mean it when I say I love all you guys. ^___^;
Except this guy X(
-
Except this guy X(
I agree. He's a jerkass >=[
-
Except this guy X(
Oh. If it's you, I don't mind. >:3
jk ilu bff4lyfe
I agree. He's a jerkass >=[
asdfadfasdf FINE. >:| Are you happy now?
-
HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! ;_;
-
HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN! ;_;
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6523/googleit.png) (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/googleit.png/)
-
So can we make this thread a China thread now?
-
So can we make this thread a China thread now?
No.