Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Drake on January 17, 2010, 11:05:37 PM
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DURRRRRRRRRR
ITS TOO HARD
IM NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO DO IT (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=6930)
derpa derp derp derp
This is a 1cc of PCB Normal with SakuyaA. This is the PCB equivalent of what I had done with MoF a while back. In nearly every boss pattern I either bomb or die, no matter how trivial. If I didn't, it just means that the pattern was so ridiculously easy that I just forgot. The bomb mechanics are different in that you don't use Power to bomb, so you are slightly more limited than with MoF, which hands you bombs on a silver platter. Instead, Sakuya's default four bombs are taken advantage of.
Now, I don't recommend the use of SakuyaA, because of a few things. Her four bombs do encourage bombspam, and her homing shots spoil you to not memorize stages. This is a bad thing. Her focus speed is too fast, her unfocused speed is too slow and her hitbox is gigantic. Yes, the replay showcases me bombing everything, but it's only to prove that 1ccing Normal is really, really easy if you truly want to beat it.
If you cannot do any better than this replay during a serious run, I feel sorry for you.
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I can't tell if your paragraph is serious or not. :V
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you bomb too much
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This needs to be recorded, uploaded, and annotated
So I can show it to my friends who can't clear easy :V
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This needs to be recorded, uploaded, and annotated
Everyone mark this as TAS.
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I can't tell if your paragraph is serious or not. :V
Totally serious. SakuyaA is a terrible character to use. SakuyaB's damage output is better even if it loses homing but is still bad. ReimuA's homing is even worse, but the focus speed, hitbox, deathbomb time etc somewhat make up for it. The only three I would ever suggest seriously playing are ReimuB and MarisaA/B. If anything, use Sakuya once you're proficient at using more straightforward characters and are experienced enough that she won't spoil you silly.
Also I'm planning to maybe LP it, so yeah.
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Marisa B is also a bad choice, since other than her good bombs she is inferior in every way to Marisa A, and once you reach a certain point you should be able to end any spell card with one bomb regardless of who uses it. So basically yeah, only use Reimu B or Marisa A, or Sakuya B if you're a scorerunner.
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ReimuB 8)
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I like how you even broke a border against that one of Alice's nonspells that ends before the bullets can even reach you.
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hitbox is gigantic
Damn it, I want proof! If you mean larger of the two hitbox sizes for PCB then that's suitable, but I swear in a previous post you've hailed her hitbox as the largest which I can't bring myself to believe. A weak point to bring up, but although larger hitboxes aren't appreciated it isn't as painful compared to recent games.
Well okay, out of two it's the largest but the post to me implied out of a possible three choices.
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This is true. PCB is the last game in which I can tolerate using anyone other than Reimu, because the hitbox sizes are a lot less crippling. Still, Sakuya's ridiculous focus speed makes it seem larger than it really is.
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I am implying it's the biggest out of the three. Of course, I have no proof and Donut may be right in that it's just her focus speed.
However, you mentioning this again makes me want to clear it up. And I can. So I will.
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huzzah! I'm not the only one who gets hit. :V
but anywho, you've made me want to check if I can 1cc normal PCB yet.
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Marisa B is also a bad choice, since other than her good bombs she is inferior in every way to Marisa A[...]
She deals almost double damage to Yuyuko. Marisa A can't do that. =V Also complaining about hitbox sizes is a weak excuse.
Anyway, I recall I did something like this when I first gave Sakuya a try (can't remember if it was A or B), but quickly decided I didn't really want to use her, even if she could probably bombspam my way to my first 1CC (since apparently doing so in IN doesn't count).
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Wow. Uh, I can't 1cc any of the games in anything past easy, so uh, yeah. PCB is the first game I'm attempting to 1cc normal, and I can get to Yuyuko, but then I die. (using Reimu B)
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She deals almost double damage to Yuyuko. Marisa A can't do that. =V Also complaining about hitbox sizes is a weak excuse.[/s
One advantage. One. And Marisa A can do a similar thing since unfocusing under Yuyuko deals extra damage.
Also hitbox sizes are quite a legitimate complaint when you do maneuvers that need a small hitbox.
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One advantage. One. And Marisa A can do a similar thing since unfocusing under Yuyuko deals extra damage.
I thought I was quite clearly poking fun at you with a technicality, but I guess it wasn't as obvious as I was hoping... =V
Also hitbox sizes are quite a legitimate complaint when you do maneuvers that need a small hitbox.
Also a poking fun comment, though its hardly impossible to 1CC SA/UFO lunatic with someone not named Reimu (heck, most did it with Sanae long before Reimu due to broken-ness).
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This topic made me want to try to unlock Extra for one of the 2 shottypes I didn't have it for. So I selected ReimuA Normal and still game overed.
Some almost a Lunatic I am. Gotten close on 3 Lunatics, have a chance at 4 of them, yet I can still fail this particular game on Normal.
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PCB is the last game in which I can tolerate using anyone other than Reimu...
Reimu spoils you too much, stop using her. You'll thank yourself when you finally try her again after a while.
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Reimu spoils you too much, stop using her. You'll thank yourself when you finally try her again after a while.
Quoted for truth.
She tend to be my fallback when my pride has been shattered and I want revenge/confidence.
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Reimu spoils you too much, stop using her. You'll thank yourself when you finally try her again after a while.
But she also has the best shot types for me. >.> As Baity said, I'm a forward shot type specialist. In my eyes, she has both the superior hitbox and the superior shot types, so why would I ever use anyone else outside of dialogue? And for the record, I've 1cc'd IN lunatic with the Scarlet Team, but it was very close and I felt limited the whole way through.
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This topic made me want to try to unlock Extra for one of the 2 shottypes I didn't have it for. So I selected ReimuA Normal
This, except I did it no deaths :V Three bombs used; one on Lunasa's 3rd non-card, one on the stage 6 opener for MASS POINT ITEMS, and one on Youmu's st6 card.
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And for the record, I've 1cc'd IN lunatic with the Scarlet Team, but it was very close and I felt limited the whole way through.
Its because you've been playing purely border team for an eternity.
When I played Border team after using Neitherworld team so much I felt handicapped since I couldn't get anything good from shotgunnning bosses with no more Yuyuko, and I actually had to deal with stage enemies since I could no longer kill them all right when they appeared thanks to proper use of Youmu. Even the extra deathbomb time meant nothing since I already learned to do it based on Neitherworld team's timer (so I never needed the extra window).
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If you cannot do any better than this replay during a serious run, I feel sorry for you.
*ragequits for the nth time*
You know what, go right on ahead. >_>
(Maybe in the morning I'll forget this post and play with a clear head again...)
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I definitely prefer Ghost Team for IN, even if I only 1cc'd it using Border Team. It's just more fun. Beating the game isn't the one and only point to playing.
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As Baity said, I'm a forward shot type specialist.
Marisa is not forward enough? Most games where Marisa uses her lasers has a shot type more forward focused than Reimu.
so why would I ever use anyone else outside of dialogue?
And for the record, I've 1cc'd IN lunatic with the Scarlet Team, but it was very close and I felt limited the whole way through.
You answered your own question!
It's just more fun. Beating the game isn't the one and only point to playing.
Very this.
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I have scraped an IN Normal 1cc with the Border team, now I'm playing around with the other ones in Hard. The result: Netherworld makes stages a breeze and bosses a nightmare. Scarlet has great damage but it doesn't overall suit me. Magic makes stages an outright nightmare. So basically it's about using the Border team, which I'm used to and make stages a whole lot more difficult when I want to focus, or using the Netherworld and running into bullets while doing bosses unfocused, to compensate for Yuyuko's crippling damage output.
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Focus to dodge, unfocus to shoot. The reverse shot thing doesn't bother me like that.
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Doing it this mechanically seems to defeat the purpose.
What goal is accomplished here? Where is the feat (or even the enjoyment) in "I just beat a difficulty that literally anyone can beat by following this explicit set of instructions someone else wrote in order to unlock a stage I have no chance in hell of coming close to finishing because I only know how to follow bombing formulas and am not very good at actually playing the game"?
If I am missing something very key, please do tell me, because I'm genuinely confused.
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Focus to dodge, unfocus to shoot. The reverse shot thing doesn't bother me like that.
You don't cure "being bad at Touhou" this easy :V
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Doing it this mechanically seems to defeat the purpose.
What goal is accomplished here? Where is the feat (or even the enjoyment) in "I just beat a difficulty that literally anyone can beat by following this explicit set of instructions someone else wrote in order to unlock a stage I have no chance in hell of coming close to finishing because I only know how to follow bombing formulas and am not very good at actually playing the game"?
If I am missing something very key, please do tell me, because I'm genuinely confused.
Good bombing is usually the key to surviving and 1ccing these games. I think it's just to show how people shouldn't be afraid to use bombs.
Extra stage is a different animal since it's so much on pure memorization (at least most of them) so even if they couldn't beat it at first, eventually it will be burned into ones mind.
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Marisa is not forward enough? Most games where Marisa uses her lasers has a shot type more forward focused than Reimu.
Yes. She also does less damage for her even thinner range.
I don't see why this is such a big deal. I have the most fun with the shot types that I feel the most comfortable playing. When I want to switch things up I will try another shot type and usually fail because I'm not used to playing with them.
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genuinely confused etc
More or less what ^ just said. Obviously what I did was an exaggeration, but giving an standard example of a standard 1cc doesn't hold as much ground. There is very little enjoyment in beating it this way, I can say that much. I see way too many people complaining about how they can't 1cc a game on Normal, yet they refuse to bomb and die with many left in stock. Evidently, you shouldn't be bombing every pattern under the sun. If you really wanted to, you should be able to 1cc just by bombing the crap out of anything that might give you any trouble without giving it a second thought. But nearly always the reason people aren't succeeding is because of bomb neglect.
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People usually try to save bombs for the moment they need, but they "never" need it, and end up with a lot on stock that are never used.
I, for example, am always trying to capture the cards, but end up failing due to stupid mistakes and yet I refuse to bomb and thus I fail even more in the end...
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GUYZ I DUN GET IT Y CANT I 1CC PCB NORMUL
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5517/pcbderp01.jpg)
True its the farthest I've taken a Normal 1cc, but until I memorize stages and peripheral hitbox locating it's not gonna happen, and the same holds true for many people.
Sorry, it's just no matter how I read this thread it sounds like arguing a brainless 1-armed ape could 1cc Normal on his first try with bomb-spamming as long as "he wanted it", which feels insulting to say the least. >:( I apologize if I'm reading too much into it...
Easy Mode I would maybe agree.
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If I had started this thread, the question would be HEY GUYZ TEACH ME TO BOMB PLZ
I never think to bomb until after I've died <_<
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GUYZ I DUN GET IT Y CANT I 1CC PCB NORMUL
True its the farthest I've taken a Normal 1cc, but until I memorize stages and peripheral hitbox locating it's not gonna happen, and the same holds true for many people.
Sorry, it's just no matter how I read this thread it sounds like arguing a brainless 1-armed ape could 1cc Normal on his first try with bomb-spamming as long as "he wanted it", which feels insulting to say the least. >:( I apologize if I'm reading too much into it...
Easy Mode I would maybe agree.
Shit gets bad when Youmu is around. If I played more it wouldn't be a problem.
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Yes, this is what I wanted in here. Don't forget about your bombs, people. Mimeslayer, you just need to keep practicing. When you memorize stages you stop dying from enemy overload, first of all. Make sure at the very least you manage to get that 800 point extend.
Sorry, it's just no matter how I read this thread it sounds like arguing a brainless 1-armed ape could 1cc Normal on his first try with bomb-spamming as long as "he wanted it", which feels insulting to say the least.
Not on his first try he couldn't. Shouldn't be an insult; more like reinforcement with parody. Secondly to note, I would much rather people be insulted by this and actually do something about it rather than have them pass unaffected by the demonstration, continuing to waste bombs and failing to beat the game.
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Hey drake, can something similar done with Marisa, even though she has the lowest bomb stock? I don't think so, but I'm thinking if she can do it from stage 4 onward, that should be good enough for anyone using her to do it.
The result: Netherworld makes stages a breeze and bosses a nightmare.
Then you don't know how to use neitherworld properly, because Yuyuko has some great shotgun damage, and if you don't know how to do that properly she at least does reasonable damage if you can get two or three butterflies to hit. If only one is hitting you need more practice.
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Yes. She also does less damage for her even thinner range.
I don't see why this is such a big deal. I have the most fun with the shot types that I feel the most comfortable playing. When I want to switch things up I will try another shot type and usually fail because I'm not used to playing with them.
Reimu spoils you too much, stop using her. You'll thank yourself when you finally try her again after a while.
I mean I understand why you would prefer Reimu, but you always make it sound like every single shottype that isn't Needles Reimu is completely worthless (unless you're talking about SA in which case it's absolutely true :V).
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Fact: Touhou is a game about not thinking you're a better player than you are. A lot of players who chronically die with bombs in stock do so because they think they can get through stuff they obviously can't at their current skill without ridiculous amounts of luck, and fail to see fluke dodges/captures as such.
And this happens at all levels - I have the resource "chart" for SA lunatic all figured out, and it tells me I should be able to clear it with two lives to spare, a bunch of random mistakes outta nowhere included in the calculations. Why didn't I 1cc it yet, then? Because what the resources/bombs/deaths preview probably tells me is that a player somewhat better than me can clear it with two lives to spare, and my unpredicted deaths above the "still have enough to clear it" threshold are happening because I insist on saying to myself that some parts which are tricky for me are easy, leading to moronic deaths in places where I should be paying much more attention, ready to bomb at any moment.
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Another fact: shaming and ridiculing people into trying to beat the game makes it sound like a chore, and not an enjoyable one. Games are supposed to be fun to play. That's the point; winning isn't.
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Another fact: shaming and ridiculing people into trying to beat the game makes it sound like a chore, and not an enjoyable one. Games are supposed to be fun to play. That's the point; winning isn't.
and this is why i will never finish a Windows Touhou game not called PoFV.
This man speaks the truth
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Another fact: shaming and ridiculing people into trying to beat the game makes it sound like a chore, and not an enjoyable one. Games are supposed to be fun to play. That's the point; winning isn't.
some (like myself) find out that the *skill exercise* (the path, not the win itself) required to win provides more fun than just playing the game without that goal, if the gameplay is good enough and involves actual skills.
Drake did a great job in demonstrating how this series give out more bombs and extends than most arcade shmups (and before anyone says anything about arcade shmups being cheap, made to devour your wallet, this series is among the ones that showed me that it's just their designs that were beyond my comprehension back then), and how people should spend them more. The fact that some of the games allow the player to bombspam like he did was just a bonus.
Whoever's complaining about his demonstration taking away the challenge of the games and/or dismissing the efforts that they've put in isn't being critical enough to themselves (as in, not analyzing when/where/why they're dying when they could've bombed or done something else, and what to do against it) and the game (as in, it's not really difficult to do well on the first 3 stages consistently enough to give you more chances of starting stage 4 with enough lives and bombs until then and then learn to play defensively through the remaining stages, and learn when you're dying the most times. For example, Marisa in SoEW. If you learn to bomb her at the right moments, she won't take as many lives. Does it reduce difficulty? Yes. But am I playing for score there? No. at that time, I wanted to reunlock Extra. It took me something like 1 hour and half, with the 3 shot types.). 1ccing on Normal isn't as difficult as people may want to believe. There's really no shame in bombing a pattern that seems to be giving trouble to you in particular, and there's no pride in dying instead of bombing it.
Fact: Touhou is a game about not thinking you're a better player than you are. A lot of players who chronically die with bombs in stock do so because they think they can get through stuff they obviously can't at their current skill without ridiculous amounts of luck, and fail to see fluke dodges/captures as such.
true, also true for a lot of shmups. Players must learn to maintain control over the game, and normally, when we see gameplay videos, the player bombs when he/she has lost it, and wants to be safe, or dies because he/she accepted the risk, but knows his/her own current limits.
edit: I forgot to mention bombing for score, which usually reduces your survivability.
edit 2: forgot about preventive bombing too, when the player wants to avoid an incoming, foreseen situation of risk, such as difficult boss patterns, before they can represent a risk to the player.
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Is it really necessary to be "self-critical" to play a freakin' shmup?
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Is it really necessary to be "self-critical" to play a freakin' shmup?
when the goal involved is to 1cc the game, and the problem to be solved involves changing/improving your approach towards the stages/bosses, being self-critical, as opposed to just keep trying harder, is natural. People may even do that (sometimes on instinct, on the fly) without realizing they are, in between or during playing sessions, and discover other ways, or the flaws of their former ways.
However, when the goal is just to play the game (without expectations of 1ccing it), being self-critical becomes optional.
You seem to be treating Drake's thread as if you were being told to 1cc the games, but in fact, this thread is directed to those who want to 1cc the games and are having trouble with that goal.
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I'm addressing not the thread necessarily but the general attitude that 1cc is the sole point of playing; that it's so important it's worth imitating another's game, move for move, to get there. I'm offering that 1cc might just be secondary to having fun. Just puttin' that POV out there.
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IOW: Just adding to Kilga's point.
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I mean I understand why you would prefer Reimu, but you always make it sound like every single shottype that isn't Needles Reimu is completely worthless (unless you're talking about SA in which case it's absolutely true :V).
donut is right
most shooters don't have weird shottypes which are full shotgun or shotgun focused and straight unfocused.
Touhou has 3 shot tiers: Forward, homing and garbage
Also, SanaeB sucks.
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I'm addressing not the thread necessarily but the general attitude that 1cc is the sole point of playing; that it's so important it's worth imitating another's game, move for move, to get there. I'm offering that 1cc might just be secondary to having fun. Just puttin' that POV out there.
but, like Drake mentioned in his MoF thread, you're not supposed to bomb on many of the earlier patterns. Both of his replays (MoF and PCB) are meant to demonstrate how much bombs (and supernatural borders) the games give to you, and they also serve to encourage players to not hold their bombs in fear that they'll need them later.
In fact, 1ccing isn't everything. I have yet to be able to score decently in the games. ;D
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Now, people, try not to be unneccessarily harsh towards one another.
On the one hand it is true, one should not cry about how the game is too difficult or unfair when one is simply refusing to use a legitimate strategy that would greatly improve their chances of success. However, on the other one should not act condescending towards the people who refuse to use this strategy because it would render the game unfun to them.
For my part, I could probably 1cc the other lunatic modes if I used bombs more proactively against the difficult attacks and stage portions that I have problems with. However, this wouldn't be as fun to me. It feels bad to die to an attack, but just bombing it to smithereens because I would probably die to it otherwise is an inner defeat that sucks even more. I'd rather improve my skills so far that I'd either be able to do that pattern without bombing or at least be quick enough to bomb when it actually becomes immediately neccessary.
So yeah, abusing your bombs is obviously the rationally easier way to achieve the 1cc, but the desire to not abuse bombs should at least be understandable.
The goal is not to 1cc the game. The goal is the feeling of accomplishment afterwards. And this feeling just isn't there if you follow a strict formula that, as Drake proved, anybody can adhere to and win without much of actual playing skill.
So... pretty much what Tengukami said.
Conclusion:
Don't be afraid to use bomb, but don't lecture people who just don't enjoy to abuse bombs.
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Ha, likewise, shadowbringer. IN is the only one I've 1cc'd. I'm stuck at Stage 6 in SA and MoF, and Stage 5 in everything else. I've played all the PC-98 games a few times, but not enough to have a clear idea of my progress. I think I get stuck because I get so lost in the magic of the games, the girls and Gensokyo that I'll be blissing out with a grin on my face when suddenly: clipdeath. Heh. Way it goes.
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I was a good bomber when I 1cc'd eosd. But after that... My bombing skills went down the crapper. most of the time I even swear I bomb before I die, yet it doesn't happen and I die.
Anyway I don't like bombing unless I'm sure I'm dead because it just feels less fun to do so, and occasionally you DO fluke out, resulting in a good replay to impress yourself with.
I played pcb bard the other day, and somehow was at the life cap until youmou. I finished with 6 or 7 lives left, and most of my deaths were the kind with bombs wasted. Yet I still struggle to beat mod hard with more than 3 lives left, and I was bombing like a pro=p. I really don't see how people think eosd and pcb are particularly difficult touhous!
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Now, people, try not to be unneccessarily harsh towards one another.
On the one hand it is true, one should not cry about how the game is too difficult or unfair when one is simply refusing to use a legitimate strategy that would greatly improve their chances of success. However, on the other one should not act condescending towards the people who refuse to use this strategy because it would render the game unfun to them.
For my part, I could probably 1cc the other lunatic modes if I used bombs more proactively against the difficult attacks and stage portions that I have problems with. However, this wouldn't be as fun to me. It feels bad to die to an attack, but just bombing it to smithereens because I would probably die to it otherwise is an inner defeat that sucks even more. I'd rather improve my skills so far that I'd either be able to do that pattern without bombing or at least be quick enough to bomb when it actually becomes immediately neccessary.
So yeah, abusing your bombs is obviously the rationally easier way to achieve the 1cc, but the desire to not abuse bombs should at least be understandable.
The goal is not to 1cc the game. The goal is the feeling of accomplishment afterwards. And this feeling just isn't there if you follow a strict formula that, as Drake proved, anybody can adhere to and win without much of actual playing skill.
So... pretty much what Tengukami said.
Conclusion:
Don't be afraid to use bomb, but don't lecture people who just don't enjoy to abuse bombs.
it seems that you see 1ccing while bombing as fewer times as possible as the goal to be achieved, it sounds like if you've done it on all difficulties/characters, you'd feel that you've experienced everything that the game has to offer, and be ready to stop playing it. But there's something even more demanding (and enjoyable imho), the so often mentioned scoreplay (which for most games don't rely on such bombspam). I don't mean to 'convert', or 'force' everyone into trying it, but I can't help but sigh in disappointment when people believe themselves to have exhausted the games they're playing without exploring that aspect of the game.
Trying to avoid bombing is understandable (especially true for me, whenever I'm playing Dodonpachi and am in the Max Bombs bonus, where you gain points over time until you no longer are at maximum bomb capacity). But, like I've mentioned in the above paragraph (regarding scoreplay), most of the games in the series don't reward bombspam (thinking about HRtP, PoFV and MoF, and to a lesser extent, SA, as the exceptions, though not really spam -- rather, well-placed bombs --, but MoF being the main offender), and are more difficult to play for score, than for "perfect playthroughs". Most of the times, if you're going for score, you're already doing the stuff you were originally going for (not losing lives unless needed, not bombing as much), but risking yourself more.
With that said, it's fine to enjoy trying to 1cc the game while bombing/dying as fewer times as possible, the thing that I don't agree with, is that such a goal (bombing/dying as fewer times as possible) is an indicator or landmark of a player's best abilities (to put it shortly, not something that one could brag about to others, and certainly not the extent of how far can you improve at the game), and the ultimate-ish goal that the games have to offer.
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Thank you, shadowbringer. You seem to understand the point.
I could honestly care less whether or not people actually want to 1cc the games or not. They can make it their goal, or they can make something entirely unrelated their goal. However, shmup players by default set their goal to a 1cc. Touhou players in particular, a normal 1cc. This is not my choice, it is entirely theirs. I merely acknowledged this fact and decided to go through the most-played scenario in PCB.
I could honestly care less whether or not people bombspam or not. Having the idea that "using too many bombs hinders the amount of fun you're having" is fine with me. It's much more impressive to 1cc a game without the use of any bombs anyways, and I applaud one for being able to do this. However, people take their choice goal of a 1cc, complain that they cannot accomplish this, and refuse to use bombs as a preventative measure as they were intended.
The amount of fun you're having, in this case, is totally irrelevant. If you're complaining that you can't accomplish something and refuse to take into account one of the most basic devices the game gives you, then in my eyes you need to get told. However, many people who complain about not being able to 1cc are given advice to accomplish that goal. Replays are always available and more experienced players lend help on a more personal level. Critique is given. And people ignore it. Maybe not to the point of completely disregarding any help, but to the point that if they actually followed their instructions properly they would be 1ccing the game. Proper bombing is one of these heavily-ignored pieces of advice. You can give people a bunch of advice, they go back and die with a bunch of bombs in stock anyways and complain again. I am not saying that proper bombing can be learned instantly, either. Like everything else in the game, you need to exert that small amount of effort needed to learn it.
This replay is not to be taken as a literal example of what everyone should be doing. Lots of stress on this. I'm not telling anyone to actually go out there and bombspam their entire way through the game, not at all. You bomb whatever give you trouble or looks as if you won't be able to dodge it. It is merely a demonstration that implies heavily that if you bomb more, you will 1cc. This game gives you lots of bombs. Use them. It also gives you lots of Borders, but that's less urgent than bombing considering you'll use them automatically. If anything would get people to understand the difference that bombing can make, people will listen to demonstration of an extreme example. This, any way you look at it is an extreme example.
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Then you don't know how to use neitherworld properly, because Yuyuko has some great shotgun damage, and if you don't know how to do that properly she at least does reasonable damage if you can get two or three butterflies to hit. If only one is hitting you need more practice.
I never said I was good :V. Also, I generally try to unfocus during bossfights, as I prefer Youmu's higher damage and a little effort to stay under the boss.
To Drake: I agree with you, but ignoring people who complain they can't 1cc a game AND have all the advice they need seems far better.
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To Drake: I agree with you, but ignoring people who complain they can't 1cc a game AND have all the advice they need seems far better.
I somewhat disagree with this. Some of us get a (arguably perverse) satisfaction from making whiny people look stupid.
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There is a very fine barrier between helping someone and making them look stupid, unfortunately.
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It's easy to identify, though.
- If the person has never received help before, then you're helping them.
- If the person has received help before and simply refuses to pay attention to it, then they're being whiny.
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There is a very fine barrier between helping someone and making them look stupid, unfortunately.
Yes, but then if they have proven to be stupid enough to be unable to follow instructions, making them look stupid is just trolling for teh lulz right?
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Incidentally, Drake, I wasn't taking a dig at you in this thread. I understand your point. Mine was more of a "hey guys the point is to have fun" thing to offer those tearing their hair out about not being able to 1cc.
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I believe alot of Touhou fans aren't really gamers as well. So they kinda stink by our standards of gaming. This affects them a whole lot more than what one would initially expect. Most of the time when I see someone who isn't a gamer play a new game, they seem incapable of figuring out the obvious, such as where the health bar is, or whatever. I know when I told my brother to try touhou (he isn't a non-gamer, but he's not really a hardcore gamer either), he simply couldn't understand the point of focus. I kept telling him to use focus but he just didn't see why he should move slower.
These people do not adapt their bodies to the controls in the same manner, I can't really explain it. To them, it's like trying to text-message on a keypad you're unfamiliar with. Every little actual requires some "uh"s.
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I believe alot of Touhou fans aren't really gamers as well. So they kinda stink by our standards of gaming. This affects them a whole lot more than what one would initially expect. Most of the time when I see someone who isn't a gamer play a new game, they seem incapable of figuring out the obvious, such as where the health bar is, or whatever.
yeap this is really true , people which arent gamers have problems trying new games.
so they need a litle bit extra help(and motivation)
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i also tried playing one game after another (starting with all the pc98 games) i also had my problem for month beating pcb @ normal, most likely it didn't work because i tried like 1 or at most 2 times a day, when i decided to invest way more time like playing 5 oder 6 times a day i was able to beat it after a week or so, i guess it was because i startet really remembering every bullet pattern, still it was quite close i had only 1 bomb left^^
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Shouldn't be an insult; more like reinforcement with parody. Secondly to note, I would much rather people be insulted by this and actually do something about it rather than have them pass unaffected by the demonstration, continuing to waste bombs and failing to beat the game.
My only issue with this is the fact that when I die with bombs left in stock it's usually one of the following issues.
1: I waited just a hair too long to bomb and died instead.
2: I didn't even see the bullet that hit me or I moved into it myself on accident.
3: I DIDN'T EVEN EXPECT TO BE HIT!
I hate when people tell me to bomb more. If I KNEW every exact moment I was going to die, I bet you I would use every bomb before I do. The thing is, some people either have too much moxy or bad enough eyes that half the time they die, it's more of a "WTF hit me?" moment than a "Durp, I won't bomb because death is more fun."
Anyway, I finally 1CC PcB with Reimu B and it was a great accomplishment to me. Didn't hurt that I capped her survival spellcard to boot. I have come very close with Marisa B too. I just don't like using Sakuya.
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Nobody knows when they're going to die 100% of the time, not even Lunatics.
Maybe I'm different, but most of my deaths are derp moments or complicated dodges outside of my ability. Yes there are some wtf moments (Sakuya's spellcards) but most can be seen a mile away.
"Bomb more" does not equal "death-bomb more." It litterally means if you feel even the least bit uncomfortable with the pattern heading for your sprite, hit "x". Period. True this method will only carry you so far until your resources run out (well, except MoF I suppose), but for new players especially it will carry them a lot farther than trying for a tough capture and dieing with 3+bombs in stock (which some players equal to 4+ lives).
My 2c.
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I hate when people tell me to bomb more. If I KNEW every exact moment I was going to die, I bet you I would use every bomb before I do.
Practice. You learn when you need to bomb by dying at the same place every run :V
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Oi man, you did a better job than me!!!
Actually, on my file there is some guy going by the alias WIND who scored 212 million with a slow-down rate of 96%. Looks like super player potential to me eh?
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Play Dodonpachi. Helped me with deathbombing a whole lot.
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1: I waited just a hair too long to bomb and died instead.
2: I didn't even see the bullet that hit me or I moved into it myself on accident.
3: I DIDN'T EVEN EXPECT TO BE HIT!
I hate when people tell me to bomb more. If I KNEW every exact moment I was going to die, I bet you I would use every bomb before I do. The thing is, some people either have too much moxy or bad enough eyes that half the time they die, it's more of a "WTF hit me?" moment than a "Durp, I won't bomb because death is more fun."
This is a terrible mentality to have towards bombing, and comments like these are more or less the reason I made the damn thing in the first place. Mimeslayer covered what needed to be said.
1: You don't "wait" to bomb. If you know you're going to bomb, then do it. It's either time it well, or realize that it's too messy and bomb beforehand.
2: Well then that's your fault. Bullets that you don't see, you won't be able to deathbomb. In addition, you can't blame bombing problems in this situation, it's just your playing.
3: ...Yeah. Wow.
Where's your replay of your PCB 1cc.
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Play Shuuso Gyoku. You will never deathbomb again.
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Once you play through the stages enough, you start to see patterns of repetition. (Certain spellcards always killing you, near-exact place of death on said spellcards, etc.)
I say memorization is the key to victory. Unless you have short-term memory, in which you just bomb through the things you have trouble with. Deathbombing isn't bad, it is just hard to predict when you are going to get hit most of the time, which is why it really isn't recommended unless you have uber, uber, reflexes. (The small window you get to deathbomb in PCB is far too small for slow players like me.)
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Play Shuuso Gyoku. You will never deathbomb again.
Because you'll smash your keyboard at the stage 2 boss.
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Play Shuuso Gyoku. You will never deathbomb again.
Because you'll smash your keyboard at the stage 2 boss.
Banshiryuu C67. Both of you go play it. NAO
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Banshiryuu C67. Both of you go play it. NAO
NO
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Because you'll smash your keyboard at the stage 2 boss.
Banshiryuu C67. Both of you go play it. NAO
NO
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Once you play through the stages enough, you start to see patterns of repetition. (Certain spellcards always killing you, near-exact place of death on said spellcards, etc.
Wow, for me that would have to be Letty's Undulation Ray, which I can capture now somewhat due to seeing said patterns, Chen's every Hard mode spell which all kill me or take up a bomb or 2, Alice's every appearence on Hard and Sister Prismriver on Hard.
Part of my failure is also due to me 1st playing on Hard because I don't want to have to use Easy Modo, and I wanna challenge myself past Normal Mode.
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That's very brave of you, but maybe you should go down to just playing Normal to begin with. From then on, its basically playing the stages some times to find out what you can do with ease and what poses problems. Bomb all that have a chance to kill you - Touhou gives a lot of lives so that can be done.
Aside from UFO Lunatic, i have rarely found 1cc'ing very tough once all the kinks are worked out. Planned bombs are really helpful and due to stage practice, that nice little feature that Touhou has, it doesn't take too long to do.
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That's very brave of you
I am more known for being a hotheaded coward who is more bark then bite, so being called brave is very welcomed. Thank you very much :D Although, I want to try and beat the game on Hard otherwise I will never actually beat Hard. If I turn it down to Normal then I will have to learn all the patterens on Normal then either 1cc or beat it, then i will have to re-learn Hard Mode patterns.
Plus the difficulty thrown at me by Hard is actually fun, yes PCB kicking my butt to the Hakurei Shrine and back a few times over is actually FUN, the difficulty isn't the cheap "I do this and you lose" kind or the unfair "you have a short time limit to beat me". The difficulty can be bested in time with practice and memorizing the stages, especially the problem areas.
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Normal mode is good for building up basic skills but if you feel like you wanna start with Hard mode then i should by no means try to stop you. Have fun! :)
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This is a terrible mentality to have towards bombing, and comments like these are more or less the reason I made the damn thing in the first place. Mimeslayer covered what needed to be said.
1: You don't "wait" to bomb. If you know you're going to bomb, then do it. It's either time it well, or realize that it's too messy and bomb beforehand.
2: Well then that's your fault. Bullets that you don't see, you won't be able to deathbomb. In addition, you can't blame bombing problems in this situation, it's just your playing.
3: ...Yeah. Wow.
Where's your replay of your PCB 1cc.
Sorry for having bad vision and not wanting to sit 6 inches from my screen to see all the bullets, heh.
And I can't read ahead nearly as well as most people here so I don't realize that I can't dodge a pattern.
And it comes to my moxy statement. I see patterns and little tiny gaps and think, "There we go, salvation!" only to die.
Oh, here's my replay for you. Feel free to either mock or constructively criticize at your leisure.
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=7029
Halfway through the fight with Youmu, I had to get up and take care of something so when I sat back down I was REALLY out of groove for a bit. Outside of that, this is me playing at above my normal level. I also completely forgot which Prismriver I wanted for the mid-fight and man did I pick the wrong one...
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Black(Voilin) and White(Trumpet) Prismrivers seem more dangerous compared to Red(Keyboard), personally, so I have started taking Red on as the one I can pick... But in the end I always fail on them to the point that rather then getting angry when I die, I laugh xD Laughing at my own failures certainly helps keep me in the mood for more runs through the game. :V
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Yeah the white one bloody annoys me, its them wiggly stream thingies she uses in her first spell, always kills me once minimum.
This replay has me feeling ashamed at not being able to 1cc normal.
However, I often to try not to bomb so I can look at the pretty patterns, which might be why I keep dying :V
EDIT : I could have sworn I saw you autocollect at the top of the screen, How the hell does that work? I've only ever been able to do it in MoF and SA when you go past the line.
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You can do that at full power, same for EoSD.
In PCB Extra and Phantasm, autocollect is always there.
I still haven't done Normal with ReimuA and MarisaB. I'm beginning to not even care that I don't have extra for them. Also, I prefer playing SakuyaB now.
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ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I just failed to 1cc again. I totally blame my controller for being total shite, And have proceeded to RAGE and bite chunks out of it.
*sigh* this is why I never play touhou on my home computer anymore. Keyboard sucks, and the controller sucks.
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ARGH!
Question: do you have the vsync patch installed?
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Errr... was it needed to install the english patch or included in it?
If not, probably haven't.
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Errr... was it needed to install the english patch or included in it?
If not, probably haven't.
It's an add-on which you can find (along with installation instructions) buried somewhere in the tech help forums, which also have a few other topics regarding common issues with it. It removes the half a second input lag which the earlier Windows games have. The MoF version also fixes MarisaBugged if I remember correctly.
Oh, and make a backup of your PCB score.dat just in case; if you alternate between an english-patched and a non-english-patch PCB executable (something you might do in the confusion which often goes with installing patches and such), your PCB score.dat gets reset.
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Vsync is cheating.
I don't really think 1CCing Normal requires a vsync patch though. Most of the bullet patterns in PCB Normal are "fairly" consistent and do not really require extreme-speed input.
I should really get to installing it before I try Hard mode though. ;)
Edit: I was joking about the vsync patch. Chrome doesn't like strikethroughs for some reason.
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The fact that the input lag isn't even there in the first place on some computers makes it not cheating.
I've never even tried the patch, so I'm not sure if it'd even help me.
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EDIT : I could have sworn I saw you autocollect at the top of the screen, How the hell does that work? I've only ever been able to do it in MoF and SA when you go past the line.
I often think I am going to make it through and just don't. As far as auto-collecting, yeah. I am very highly aggressive about that. People reviewing my replays tell me that I need to bomb more and be more cautious. I have a replay that shows me flying up through the Prismriver Laser to the middle just to drop a bomb to hit all 3 at once. Fun stuff.
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I have a replay that shows me flying up through the Prismriver Laser to the middle just to drop a bomb to hit all 3 at once. Fun stuff.
^ This is probly the most epic thing in this thread. PERIOD. :V
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Using vsync on EoSD 90% of my misses have become deathbombs. Also in all the other games I can deathbomb reliably, so input lag is a big deal there.
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^ This is probly the most epic thing in this thread. PERIOD. :V
Probably not NEARLY as epic in viewing as it sounds.
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After now starting to play PCB with VSYNC, i now only need say this.
OH GOD VSYNC!
ITS LIKE A PARTY IN MY TOUHOU, AND EVERYBODYS GRAZING :*
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After now starting to play PCB with VSYNC, i now only need say this.
OH GOD VSYNC!
ITS LIKE A PARTY IN MY TOUHOU, AND EVERYBODYS GRAZING :*
VERY YES
VSync is the best thing to happen to Th6 and 7 since their creation.