Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Ghost/Spectre on December 08, 2009, 09:00:29 PM

Title: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Ghost/Spectre on December 08, 2009, 09:00:29 PM
Hi, i'm sorta new to the whole Touhou hell shooter stuff but I love the idea and adore alot of the characters. Particularly the scarlet sisters. Remilia seems like an open book, bratty, stubborn, but a fairly normal... er... well about as normal as a Gensokyian vampire can be, person. Flandre however seems more mysterious. I get different ideas from different sources and I've been able to limit it down to these two possible reasons she's kept locked up
1. she's completely nuts and being locked in a basement hasn't improved her... "tendencies" for mayhem and bloodlust and the term "play" means to boot head.
2. she's a complete spaz by reason of ADHD. Beleive me, when one is locked up and supressed with ADHD, they tend to become EXTREMELY hyper and when exposed to high amounts of new stimulation, such as being released into gensokyo, one tends to... well.... ashplode. it also makes one keep alot of childishness in their emotions, such as when she asked Reimu to "play" in the extra stage.

I'm leaning towards her being ADHD. She just doesn't seem like she's nuts. Whaddajoo guys think?
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Rikter on December 08, 2009, 09:06:12 PM
I recall reading something said she ussualy stays to the basement of her own will...

But then again my mind is likely fabricating this.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: theshirn on December 08, 2009, 09:08:15 PM
Insane.

/thread
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Ghost/Spectre on December 08, 2009, 09:09:41 PM
refering to Rikter:

Hmm... sounds like a freind of mine, staying in the basement of their own free will... video game addict mooching off her older sister?
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Kuma on December 08, 2009, 09:12:44 PM
Flandre isn't crazy, fans just assume this because she has spell cards named after a book about a serial killer, and she likes to have her meat* made into cakes

*human flesh and organs.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Ghost/Spectre on December 08, 2009, 09:18:14 PM
Flandre isn't crazy, fans just assume this because she has spell cards named after a book about a serial killer, and she likes to have her meat* made into cakes

*human flesh and organs.
Vampires drink blood, they don't eat the whole thing. I was thinking about "prepared meals" more along the lines of the hellsing anime. Blood packet with a bowl and spoon, liek fancy soup... but not.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: theshirn on December 08, 2009, 09:18:31 PM
Flandre isn't crazy, fans just assume this because she has spell cards named after a book about a serial killer, and she likes to have her meat* made into cakes
And the fact that her older sister keeps her locked in the basement was because they had an argument the day before EoSD, right?

...oh, wait, she's been there for 495 years.  Guess not.

You don't keep someone locked up - much less your sister - for ADHD on the scale of YEARS, much less centuries.  Flandre is a psycho, simple as that.  Fans are the ones who came up with the adorable little distractable super loli; ZUN created a monster.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Gpop on December 08, 2009, 09:23:42 PM
I don't really see her as insane, but rather destructive only with powers she can't seem to control herself. That's why she's locked in the basement. So she doesn't blow the shit out of everything in Gensokyo just because she wants to play.

Of course, if you let her out and she finds out that her food are from human flesh, she could go on a murderous rampage in the human village only because she doesn't know any better. It's their nature to kill humans, and Flandre would be reacting as such.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Chaore on December 08, 2009, 09:32:57 PM
You don't keep someone locked up - much less your sister - for ADHD on the scale of YEARS, much less centuries.  Flandre is a psycho, simple as that.
Or Remillia is a bit on the bitch scale.  :V Or not really good at reacting. Flandre has the power to literally, kill the crap out of many many things if not everything. Remillia deals with this by telling her to stay in the basement and bailing on her sister, leaving her alone for years on years. This isn't straightfowardly mentioned, its also inferred like 'Remillia did it because her sister kills people to bits and pieces and is too dangerous to have anywhere'.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Solais on December 08, 2009, 09:41:41 PM
Of course she's normal. Everyone else is insane.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Nobu on December 08, 2009, 09:43:49 PM
Sorta insane, but not any more or less so than anyone else in Gensokyo.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Chaore on December 08, 2009, 09:49:38 PM
Sorta insane, but not any more or less so than anyone else in Gensokyo.
Or maybe shes just...Super sane. o . o...
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Moerin on December 08, 2009, 09:51:05 PM
Quote from: Flandre
I've never seen humans as anything else but a drink.

Well...

Hmmm... Anyway, the way I see it, there's a chance she wasn't insane to begin with, at the very least.  I could imagine Remi being terrified of her sister's power and locking her up to keep her from going out of control.

Unfortunately, being locked in the basement for almost five centuries with little to no contact with anyone else would very likely have had a detrimental effect on her sanity.  From her dialogue, it's clear that she's at the very least emotionally stunted.  In all honesty, I could see her as being psychologically unstable to at least some degree.

But yeah, everyone else in Gensokyo is crazy too, so the point's kind of moot~
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Drake on December 08, 2009, 10:29:39 PM
Flandre stays in the basement of her own volition because she respects her sister and looks up to her as a motherly figure. It would be easy for her to break out at any time. Remilia holds frequent parties, and Flandre comes out at these times as well; she isn't as bound as most people think she is. Remilia is slowly training her to use her powers on a smaller scale as to not become a menace to the peaceful world they moved to. She doesn't tell Flandre that she eats people because Flan would likely not know any better and flatten the human villages without a second thought. Without human blood to feed on, they would likely both die; so this is necessary for their survival.

She taught her the spell card system, which she actually uses when playing with the heroines, and Remilia fated a meteor to enter Gensokyo's orbit so that Flan could destroy it. While many people think of Remilia as a spoiled bitch, she may be, but she is looking out for her sister and is keeping her powers under control in the best possible way she can. Whether is was out of fear for her life and for others is a different matter entirely. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If Flan wasn't insane to begin with, her powers could have likely driven her to her current state, as well as keeping out of contact with people for many, many years. Social contact is the main influence for people to mature, which Flan did not have. As such, she is burdened with a childish mind, and when she's in the basement her imagination can run wildly, which would also be a large factor.

Flan's behaviour is much like a child; and what would a child do with the power to destroy? They would end up weaving a path of destruction, most likely. Calling it ADHD would be a misdiagnosis. Her psychological and social development is stunted and her powers make her dangerous, but she is not insane. The respect she holds for her sister at the very least shows that she isn't just a maniac. Without her destructive powers, what would she be? Just an "everyday" vampire. There would be no need to keep her in the basement, she would not be socially underdeveloped, and she would probably sit at Remilia's right hand. She would not be dubbed insane.

Thus I conclude that her powers are the entire problem, Flan as a result has a childlike psyche and she is in fact, not insane.



Flandre stays in the basement of her own volition because she respects her sister and looks up to her as a motherly figure. It would be easy for her to break out at any time. Remilia holds frequent parties, and Flandre comes out at these times as well; she isn't as bound as most people think she is. Remilia is slowly training her to use her powers on a smaller scale as to not become a menace to the peaceful world they moved to. She doesn't tell Flandre that she eats people because Flan would likely not know any better and flatten the human villages without a second thought. Without human blood to feed on, they would likely both die; so this is necessary for their survival.

She taught her the spell card system, which she actually uses when playing with the heroines, and Remilia fated a meteor to enter Gensokyo's orbit so that Flan could destroy it. While many people think of Remilia as a spoiled bitch, she may be, but she is looking out for her sister and is keeping her powers under control in the best possible way she can. Whether is was out of fear for her life and for others is a different matter entirely. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If Flan wasn't insane to begin with, her powers could have likely driven her to her current state, as well as keeping out of contact with people for many, many years. Social contact is the main influence for people to mature, which Flan did not have. As such, she is burdened with a childish mind, and when she's in the basement her imagination can run wildly, which would also be a large factor.

Flan, if let outdoors, would be able to catch her own food easily, as she would just kill random humans as she pleased, whether she's insane or not. It's her social ineptitude that makes her unable to care for herself and have such a dependence on her sister; as it was probably planned by Remilia in the first place. If Flan's power was that unstable, then making her dependent on the only person who can control her is the perfect way to keep her in check. Flandre respects Remilia more than anyone else and Remilia takes advantage of that to keep her still.

Flandre is obviously more childish than Remilia. If not shown by the dialogue in-game that Remilia is actually fairly civilized as opposed to Flandre, it's also shown in PMiSS and BAiJR. Yes, Remilia is childish, but only in the sense that she might whine or cry when something bad happens, or that she's a bit self-centered. Mostly, she's fairly mature and put-together. The entire reason people call Flan insane to begin with is that nearly any time she's introduced, she will destroy something because of her childlike state of mind and unstable powers, and nobody can see beyond that because they're afraid of her. The difference between Remilia being insane and Flandre being insane isn't because Flandre actually is insane, but because Remilia has been exposed to social interaction her entire life (500 years is enough to act fairly civilized, one would think) and her powers aren't destructive enough to blow up a meteor.

The reason Flan doesn't mind being down in the basement all the time is because ever since she was five she's been locked up. It's what she has done her entire life. She is let out on some occasions, but these are probably regarded as privileges and a special treat, not the basement being a punishment. She looks up to her sister and does what Remilia thinks is best for her, which is probably true.

Flan's behaviour is much like a child; and what would a child do with the power to destroy? They would end up weaving a path of destruction, most likely. Calling it ADHD would be a misdiagnosis. Her psychological and social development is stunted and her powers make her dangerous, but she is not insane. The respect she holds for her sister at the very least shows that she isn't just a maniac. Without her destructive powers, what would she be? Just an "everyday" vampire. There would be no need to keep her in the basement, she would not be socially underdeveloped, and she would probably sit at Remilia's right hand. She would not be dubbed insane.

I conclude that her powers are the entire problem, Flan as a result has a childlike psyche and she is in fact, not insane.

Here's another way of thinking about it. Remilia can manipulate fate. Flandre obeying her and staying in the basement is accomplished because Remilia uses her powers to control Flan' fate. Flan never questioning what she eats, Flan coming up only when Remilia wants her to and respecting Remilia in general: is all controlled by her powers. Why do you think they moved to Gensokyo? Why does Flan only escape from the mansion immediately after the heroines defeats Remilia, and the heroines just so happen to be there on the day Flan gets loose? Think about it.

copypaste purposes
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Helepolis on December 08, 2009, 10:39:55 PM
I couldn't word it better my self. Straight PMiSS and BAiJR material there.

Drake , considered becoming a teacher for Gensokyo?
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Ghost/Spectre on December 08, 2009, 10:59:24 PM
Flandre stays in the basement of her own volition because she respects her sister and looks up to her as a motherly figure. It would be easy for her to break out at any time. Remilia holds frequent parties, and Flandre comes out at these times as well; she isn't as bound as most people think she is. Remilia is slowly training her to use her powers on a smaller scale as to not become a menace to the peaceful world they moved to. She doesn't tell Flandre that she eats people because Flan would likely not know any better and flatten the human villages without a second thought. Without human blood to feed on, they would likely both die; so this is necessary for their survival.

She taught her the spell card system, which she actually uses when playing with the heroines, and Remilia fated a meteor to enter Gensokyo's orbit so that Flan could destroy it. While many people think of Remilia as a spoiled bitch, she may be, but she is looking out for her sister and is keeping her powers under control in the best possible way she can. Whether is was out of fear for her life and for others is a different matter entirely. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If Flan wasn't insane to begin with, her powers could have likely driven her to her current state, as well as keeping out of contact with people for many, many years. Social contact is the main influence for people to mature, which Flan did not have. As such, she is burdened with a childish mind, and when she's in the basement her imagination can run wildly, which would also be a large factor.

Flan's behaviour is much like a child; and what would a child do with the power to destroy? They would end up weaving a path of destruction, most likely. Calling it ADHD would be a misdiagnosis. Her psychological and social development is stunted and her powers make her dangerous, but she is not insane. The respect she holds for her sister at the very least shows that she isn't just a maniac. Without her destructive powers, what would she be? Just an "everyday" vampire. There would be no need to keep her in the basement, she would not be socially underdeveloped, and she would probably sit at Remilia's right hand. She would not be dubbed insane.

Thus I conclude that her powers are the entire problem, Flan as a result has a childlike psyche and she is in fact, not insane.
I can see that. I guess I used the wrong words to explain it. YAY FOR... psychia....tristicateing... tristing.... YAY FOR PEELING BACK HER MIND!!!
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Patorikku on December 08, 2009, 11:01:19 PM
Something tells me that Drake IS a teacher for Gensokyo. A psychologist, otherwise.

Yeah, it's not so much Flan being insane so much as Flan's power being insane. Remi's just trying to keep her out of trouble, like any big sister would.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Toasty on December 08, 2009, 11:57:18 PM
Edit: Drake said it better.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Doomsday on December 09, 2009, 12:20:06 AM
Yeah. Drake summed up my thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Kuma on December 09, 2009, 12:26:45 AM
Teach us more, Drake-sensei *Starry-eyed look*
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Hashmalum on December 09, 2009, 01:19:03 AM
I've recently wondered how it is that she can be locked up at all, with the power that she has. My theory is that she entered into a contract with Remilia promising not to leave the mansion without permission (or blow it up) in exchange for Remilia feeding and taking care of her. Since vampires are a sub-type of devil, and devils are (presumably supernaturally) incapable of breaking their contracts, she thus ensures that she and Gensokyo are protected against the worst possible results of her insanity. And yes, I think she's insane. I don't think that she's called that just because she's childish, because Remilia is just as childish and no one thinks she's crazy. Both girls are childish and always will be because vampirism impedes not just physical aging and development, but mental aging and development as well (see Imperishable Night manual). If I had to guess just what form of insanity she has, I'd guess one of the schizoform disorders, based on her asocial behavior (she doesn't actually mind being locked in the basement alone, at least most of the time) and peculiar manner of speaking (Aya couldn't understand her very well in her interview).
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Kasei Honoo on December 09, 2009, 02:11:15 AM
Hard to say I'd like to say misunderstood mainly because of the pictures i see of her with Meiling and others.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Drake on December 09, 2009, 02:30:13 AM
She couldn't understand Remilia very well either. They both use ancient japanese.

Starting a contract such as that is ridiculous. Flan, if let outdoors, would be able to catch her own food easily, as she would just kill random humans as she pleased, whether she's insane or not. One, it's her social ineptitude that makes her unable to care for herself and have such a dependence on her sister; as it was probably planned by Remilia in the first place. If Flan's power was that unstable, then making her dependent on the only person who can control her is the perfect way to keep her in check. And two, if she was originally truly insane she would have probably fought Remilia if a contract like that was suggested, and it definitely wouldn't have been initiated by herself. Flandre respects Remilia more than anyone else and Remilia takes advantage of that to keep her still. There's no real evidence here to suggest that a contract could have been brought into place.

Flandre is obviously more childish than Remilia. If not shown by the dialogue in-game that Remilia is actually fairly civilized as opposed to Flandre, it's also shown in PMiSS and BAiJR. Yes, Remilia is childish, but only in the sense that she might whine or cry when something bad happens, or that she's a bit self-centered. Mostly, she's fairly mature and put-together. The entire reason people call Flan insane to begin with is that nearly any time she's introduced, she will destroy something because of her childlike state of mind and unstable powers, and nobody can see beyond that because they're afraid of her. The difference between Remilia being insane and Flandre being insane isn't because Flandre actually is insane, but because Remilia has been exposed to social interaction her entire life (500 years is enough to act fairly civilized, one would think) and her powers aren't destructive enough to blow up a meteor.

The reason Flan doesn't mind being down in the basement all the time is because ever since she was five she's been locked up. It's what she has done her entire life. She is let out on some occasions, but these are probably regarded as privileges and a special treat, not the basement being a punishment. She looks up to her sister and does what Remilia thinks is best for her, which is probably true.

Here's another way of thinking about it. Remilia can manipulate fate. Flandre obeying her and staying in the basement is accomplished because Remilia uses her powers to control Flan' fate. Flan never questioning what she eats, Flan coming up only when Remilia wants her to and respecting Remilia in general: is all controlled by her powers. Why do you think they moved to Gensokyo? Why does Flan only escape from the mansion immediately after the heroines defeats Remilia, and the heroines just so happen to be there on the day Flan gets loose? Think about it.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Bias Bus on December 09, 2009, 06:08:48 AM
Pretty much everything Drake said.

Insanity is just fanon bullshit
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Nine West on December 09, 2009, 06:10:54 AM
Drake owned this thread.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Moerin on December 09, 2009, 06:12:47 AM
Pretty much everything Drake said.

Insanity is just fanon bullshit

Personally I think it's a rather logical extrapolation of what would happen to someone if they were, y'know, locked in the basement alone for five centuries.

But that's just me, it seems~

But yeah, Drake's onto something here.  Really, if I actually believed in the concept of fate I'd probably go with that theory too.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Nobu on December 09, 2009, 06:30:51 AM
Pretty much everything Drake said.

Insanity is just fanon bullshit

I'm fine with both interpretations. Drake makes a good argument as to why Flandre could be sane, but it's not 'proof' by any means. In terms of a court case, if 'Guilty' was represented as Flandre being insane, Drake demonstrated reasonable doubt.

Some people like the idea of an insane yandere superpowerful loli Flandre, and others like the
non-insane version. I'm on the fence about it, because I think borderline insanity gives her an edginess that I love (perfect example being her grin during the Bad Apple PV that everyone's seen a million times)
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Kasei Honoo on December 09, 2009, 06:33:18 AM
...Yea Drake did kinda just own this thread.....
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Fightest on December 09, 2009, 07:26:03 AM
What Drake said, and I came to the same conclusion in my own analysis thread as well.

Also, wat? A meteor? Where does that happen? I'm pretty sure it isn't in PMiSS, so is it in BAiJR?
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Helepolis on December 09, 2009, 07:57:46 AM
http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Flandre

Quote from: ZUN
She's kind of nuts and isn't usually allowed out of the cellar, but she usually doesn't try to let herself out.

She really respects her older sister Remilia, but her raw destructive power far exceeds that of her sister's. Although she is usually docile, her insanity makes it difficult for others to understand her.

When vampires attack humans, they generally try to take their prey alive so that they can suck its blood afterward, but Flandre has always been fed with cooked dishes, so she doesn't know how to properly attack a human. Whenever she tries to attack a human, she fusses too much and blows them away without leaving a spot of blood.

Perhaps she can't tell that her daily meals are made from living humans.

Her meals look like such harmless foodstuffs as cake and tea, after all...

Remilia is such a nice elder sister. She fulfills the role of an elder sister, mistress and spoiled brat at the same time. This is why she is my favorite character. >:3
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Kasei Honoo on December 09, 2009, 09:16:26 AM
I would have never guessed XD Who mine who ahead and try to guess ^.^
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on December 10, 2009, 11:58:33 PM
Flandre is just insane because it's her nature. She is a lot more outgoing and less refined than her sister, with her destructive power she seems to take advantage from it in order to cause calamities. And by being locked the entire time it only helps her insanity to grow further.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Esoterica on December 11, 2009, 12:01:42 AM
Insane, but she has to be at least somewhat innocent.  Otherwise there's no way she'd just stay in the basement like that.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Hashmalum on December 11, 2009, 05:32:03 AM
She couldn't understand Remilia very well either. They both use ancient japanese.
That shouldn't be a problem for Aya, who is as old as both Scarlet sisters put together.
Quote
Starting a contract such as that is ridiculous. Flan, if let outdoors, would be able to catch her own food easily, as she would just kill random humans as she pleased, whether she's insane or not. One, it's her social ineptitude that makes her unable to care for herself and have such a dependence on her sister; as it was probably planned by Remilia in the first place. If Flan's power was that unstable, then making her dependent on the only person who can control her is the perfect way to keep her in check. And two, if she was originally truly insane she would have probably fought Remilia if a contract like that was suggested, and it definitely wouldn't have been initiated by herself. Flandre respects Remilia more than anyone else and Remilia takes advantage of that to keep her still. There's no real evidence here to suggest that a contract could have been brought into place.
Insane doesn't mean automatically violent (many forms of mental illness render one more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrator), or always unable to see what is in one's own best interests and act on it. Insanity isn't necessarily incompatible with willingly being contracted. She doesn't necessarily have any reason to fight it, and lots of reasons to accept.

For example, even if Flandre can catch her own food, if she had something like, say, schizoid personality disorder, she might not want to, since it would involve interaction with people (which schizoid sufferers tend to shun). She also needs a place to stay during the daytime and during the rain, and presumably she'd rather live in a comfortable house protected by others. For all her power, she's still someone with a ton of weaknesses who can be ambushed in her sleep. Besides friendship, why do you think that Remi keeps Patchy around? Because she's a powerful person who doesn't need to sleep. China, Sakuya, and the hordes of otherwise useless fairy maids all serve a similar function as well: they can slow down an intruder long enough for the Scarlet sisters to wake up and get ready for them (and if the intruder is weak enough, the help can keep them out entirely).
Quote
Here's another way of thinking about it. Remilia can manipulate fate. Flandre obeying her and staying in the basement is accomplished because Remilia uses her powers to control Flan' fate. Flan never questioning what she eats, Flan coming up only when Remilia wants her to and respecting Remilia in general: is all controlled by her powers. Why do you think they moved to Gensokyo? Why does Flan only escape from the mansion immediately after the heroines defeats Remilia, and the heroines just so happen to be there on the day Flan gets loose? Think about it.
Ah, you're saying that Remilia deliberately altered fate to get Flandre some human contact (with the heroines)? Sure, that makes sense.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Drake on December 11, 2009, 05:51:48 AM
That shouldn't be a problem for Aya, who is as old as both Scarlet sisters put together.
Good point. I'm also going to throw in that if Flan has had barely any contact with people other than the maids and her sister, she might have either just been shy or mumbling. A bit of a reacher here, but if she hadn't been let out of the basement for a while her ability to talk might have been garbled, as well.

stuff
Well, there's no real reason for me to disbelieve you as you put it that way, but I still say that it's complicating the matter too much and relies less on canon material than theories. I could say that when she was five, Remilia smashed her in the side of the head with a rock and she's been awkward ever since, because there's no real evidence to say otherwise. Either way, you can believe what you want.

members of the mansion
i agree etc

Ah, you're saying that Remilia deliberately altered fate to get Flandre some human contact (with the heroines)? Sure, that makes sense.
With Flandre having barely any contact with people, if I were Remilia I would think it would be great for Flandre to release on/play with/interact in any fashion with someone strong enough to have bested her. The more I think about this possibility the more I believe in it.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Hashmalum on December 11, 2009, 06:52:37 AM
Well, there's no real reason for me to disbelieve you as you put it that way, but I still say that it's complicating the matter too much and relies less on canon material than theories. I could say that when she was five, Remilia smashed her in the side of the head with a rock and she's been awkward ever since, because there's no real evidence to say otherwise. Either way, you can believe what you want.
Theories, sure. But that's all we have here, really. I'm not here to say that this is The Way It Is and if you disagree then You Are Wrong. I'm just here to present interesting possibilities and how those can fit in the canon.
With Flandre having barely any contact with people, if I were Remilia I would think it would be great for Flandre to release on/play with/interact in any fashion with someone strong enough to have bested her. The more I think about this possibility the more I believe in it.
I think it's extremely likely, yes.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: ♛ Apher-Forte on December 11, 2009, 08:04:15 AM
I like to think of her as insane, and that the only reason she stays there is because she wants to.
She doesn't like playing herself and wants people to visit her and so on, except since she is so insane, which she well understood the fact that she is, she calmly presses herself not to do much except wait an eternity.

In loneliness, she cannot destroy, and cannot harm, it would save her the trouble of going overboard and having to clean up her mess. In my opinion as well, one does not simply develop multiple selves (4 of a kind) that easily, it may be why she is in there, she may have found consolation in talking with her 'selves' instead of going out there and having to face unpleasantries. IOW: NEET VAMPIRE.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Helepolis on December 11, 2009, 12:02:46 PM
Flandre is insane (ZUN decides this), but people just take it too much by making her a total maniac or lunatic that loves to destroy humans and does it intentionally ( overdone Fanon lol ). She doesn't even know how blood tastes so let alone she would go destroy a village.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Ghaleon on December 11, 2009, 08:14:18 PM
I've accepted her as being somewhat insane via the zun quote linked in this thread previously. However I always felt that she's also sane as well in many regards. Nobody with the power of destruction WILLINGLY sits in a basement for 495 years without attempting to bust their way out violently at least ONCE without an incredible amount of self-control, even by a sane person's standards I mean. The whole respect for her big sister thing also goes a long way. Which also makes me think Remilia isn't really much of a "spoiled brat" that people think her as. I mean it's easy to think someone is spoiled when they have their own mansion with a staff of maids and whatnot. But Sakuya has a loyalty to Remilia that goes beyond a sense of maid duty, and her friend patchy seems content enough to live there and get along with Remi just fine, even tutor her young sister as well. Plus Remi is the first vampire I've heard of that decides it's rude to finish off a human while eating it. I know ordinary people with those kinds of resources tend to spoil a whole lot more than that >=P.

It's kind of hard to really describe why I think Flan isn't utterly insane due to the lack of lore surrounding her in the 'canon' Touhou I've seen/played. But honestly, Cirno seems more insane and bloodthirsty to me from what I've seen.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Esoterica on December 11, 2009, 08:54:00 PM
She doesn't even know how blood tastes
She does, she just doesn't know where her food comes from.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Aya Reiko on December 12, 2009, 05:50:16 AM
She's a little nuts.  Even Aya had trouble making sense of what she was saying.

Maybe Remi should introduce her to Satori, maybe Satori can figure out which gear is stripped.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Drake on December 12, 2009, 06:08:59 AM
More fic ideas.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Knuckx117 on December 19, 2009, 02:15:36 AM
Flandre isn't crazy, fans just assume this because she has spell cards named after a book about a serial killer, and she likes to have her meat* made into cakes.

*human flesh and organs.

Why do I think Sweeny Todd when I hear that? :V
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Tinari on February 06, 2010, 09:59:27 PM
I'd just like to throw out there that people use the term "495 years" as if it's significant.

To a vampire, I don't think 495 years is the same as it is to a human.  Waiting a month for us can be difficult.  Being locked in a small dark cell for 24 hours is hard for us.  I could imagine a vampire just sitting quietly for days on end just being "lost in thought" and 495 years being "just a little while."
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Ghaleon on February 06, 2010, 10:22:18 PM
I'd just like to throw out there that people use the term "495 years" as if it's significant.

To a vampire, I don't think 495 years is the same as it is to a Human.  Waiting a month for us can be difficult.  Being locked in a small dark cell for 24 hours is hard for us.  I could imagine a vampire just sitting quietly for days on end just being "lost in thought" and 495 years being "just a little while."

not when 495 years is more than 90% of your age it's not.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Tinari on February 06, 2010, 11:09:25 PM
not when 495 years is more than 90% of your age it's not.

Wouldn't that make it seem normal?

There are cases around the world where children are thrown in with packs of animals (dogs, etc) where the child grows up with very animalistic behavior.  Wouldn't that then, logically, mean that more than anything being locked (willingly or otherwise) be of no matter to her since it's what she knows and is used to?
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Kinzo the Astro Curious on February 06, 2010, 11:33:12 PM
Thats an interesting theory. She would probably have very little, if any perception of time. hours probably go by like minutes, blankly doing nothing.

Read a good doujin on flandre and remila once, what happened between them and why flandre is "insane" not being because of her power, but what it caused her to do once, And remila is trying to make her remember and come to terms with it.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Sabino on February 07, 2010, 12:24:37 AM
Although Prof.Drake summed up lots of the things that everyone was thinking very nicely,
I think everyone is forgetting one thing.
In the book she called Remillia "アイツ"
(Which literally means "that person" which is used in a more disrespectful manner.)
... Which is inconsistent to her "Looks up to and respects Remillia" sort of character.
This inconsistency in character is also one of Flandre's mysterious charms I guess.

I can't really state any opinion when it comes to Flandre, since the other infamous sister Koishi makes the matter so much more difficult to comprehend. (Koishi says quite morbid things too and her insanity seems to be on a different vector than Flandre's, but judging insanity is... *goes on endlessly*)
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Matsuri on February 07, 2010, 02:13:37 AM
Flan isn't insane. She's just destructive and lonely :(
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Helepolis on February 07, 2010, 07:49:59 AM
Flan isn't insane. She's just destructive and lonely :(

And adorable.
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Kuma on February 07, 2010, 08:39:20 AM
Koishi on the other hand, is fucking buttshit loco
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: Ghaleon on February 07, 2010, 08:42:54 AM
Wouldn't that make it seem normal?


Probably, I'm  just saying 495 years isn't a trivial amount of time to someone whose age isn't even 1000 (not even close in Flan's case).
I don't see what feeling normal about location has to do about her supposed insanity though. I agree with hele that she's adorable though >=P
Title: Re: Flandre Scarlet, insane or misunderstood?
Post by: orinrin on February 08, 2010, 04:56:43 AM
Everyone is misunderstood to some degree.  I don't think Flandre is an exception to this rule.

We may think of her as insane when it is just that her thinking is a bit different from ours.

Having U.N. Owen Was Her? as her theme doesn't really help this theory though.