Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Ai-chann on November 15, 2009, 06:08:12 PM
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I noticed in another thread that you can add more lives to your starting number in the options menu, which got me to thinking...what is the true definition of 1cc, then, if you can add more lives? Does this imply that you use the three life default? I was just curious about that. What are your opinions on this?
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1cc is simply clearing the game without using continues.
But everyone agrees on using default lives, even because on the latter games you can't even raise the number of lives.
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You are also allowed to use less than default lives if you want!
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1CC simply means "1 Credit Clear" or "1 Continue Clear." How many starting lives or bombs or how you TAS the game doesn't change that fact. As long as you mark it as having extra lives/bombs or TASing it, no one should object to it.
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So far I've only been using the default number, but now I'm unsure if I should even increase the amount. I've been unable to 1cc anything except for PCB so far. Maybe I should use the max and see how far I can go, then decrease the number as I improve...
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You get a score penalty for doing that, plus some people would not consider it a legitimate 1cc. You'll still unlock Extra or the stage practices though. My first clears of IN Normal and Hard were with the lives setting maxed, but I did it with defaults later. Hard was only done like that because Reimu solo is not fun to play at all.
You don't get a score bonus for going with less than default either, which makes it pointless to do so, even for challenge purposes.
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Even if you think it's making it easier, I highly recommend you keep it at default lives. A little over a year ago I was a hard mode player who was going nowhere. I finally decided to stop playing on max lives and noticed how much better I was getting at resource management. Two weeks later I began a playing spree where I beat several lunatics in the span of a month. Kind of a dramatic example I know, but seriously, playing on max lives will make you not appreciate the resources you have and thinking you can just blow them with no consequences.
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That is an interesting point. I never thought about that. I believe my biggest problem is not making great use of bombs, and needlessly wasting a bunch when I die and not use any. Maybe that challenge of default lives is what I need to make better use of my bombs.
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If your goal is simply to access the extra stages of EOSD, PCB, and IN, I would recommend you increase the default number of lives if you are having difficulty with the game. As you improve you can always reduce the number of lives to challenge yourself. Not to mention, "accidents" do happen and can be immensely frustrating on a 1cc run. But like lmagus pointed out, the later games like MOF, SA, and UFO don't allow you to increase the default number of lives.
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I wouldn't call a TAS or a completed game with more than default lives a true 1CC.
I generally follow the shmups forum definition: Clear the game on default settings, no continues.
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If your goal is simply to access the extra stages of EOSD, PCB, and IN
Then you should still not touch your lives. If you can't 1cc the game on default lives, you're not getting ANYWHERE on Extra.
Touhou is about resource management as much as it is anything else. Learn to bomb more, and keep default lives. You'll be doing yourself a favor.
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You might indeed get better at resource management if you start with default lives. I made it to Scarlet Meister on a Lunatic 1cc attempt with default lives. I made it equally as far with maximum lives.
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It's like any other type of training. You want to push your limits when you practice in order to make the live setting manageable. Maxing lives will leave you ill-prepared for later games. If you want to get better, study your replays to see what you did wrong, and try another approach. Also, you can spam continues to open Practice Start and do drills until you got it down. Be flexible - if one strategy doesn't work, try a totally new approach.
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Max lives are fine for unlocking stages for practice though, just not for actual 1cc attempts. I might try to do a max lives run of IN Lunatic later just to get FinalB unlocked since you have to 1cc the game just to unlock it for practice which sucks.
Edit: Not only for the stage for practice, but so I get the last 11 spells I need for spell practice.
But I would never try to call that legitimate until I did it with defaults, which I'm not even close to. Only to stage 4 with defaults.
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Yeah, Stage 4 is typically where taking it easy comes to a sudden end.
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While we're talking about resource management: start by bombing everything that poses half a threat, and see how far you can get this way. Make an effort to not waste bombs instead of an effort to win, it'll be just a test run. You'll most certainly fall short because even with Touhou being liberal with resources, you can't just bypass everything (except in MoF) - but you'll have an idea of how many bombs you should save for later.
After that, identify which of the attacks you bombed are reasonable and which are not for your current level; try to learn the less difficult ones and don't be afraid to keep bombing the ones that you just can't figure out. After a few more runs you'll have a clear separation between stuff that you just can't afford to bomb, stuff that means a net gain if you capture but not a problem if you bomb, stuff that you should be prepared to bomb at any instant because you know you have few chances of capturing it regularly, and auto-bombs for parts where trying to survive is futile.
If after that you still fall short, choose some cards you can do somewhat regularly but still bomb often, then ignore all previous advice and try to capture them no matter what. It's better than needing to capture the endgame stuff, and if you really screw up early, it's less of a pain to restart.
Oh and playing above your level does wonders. So does StB in all its glorious brutality.
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Oh and playing above your level does wonders. So does StB in all its glorious brutality.
i was once stuck without being able to 1cc anything for two months after I did MoF Hard
then i found StB out and started to rage at it, opened up to stage 9 and suddenly 1cc'd 5 games (2 normal, 3 hard) in the spam of two weeks
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Eh, I think it's only a true 1cc if you use default lives. If you give yourself max lives, you should just be playing to unlock an extra stage, or last words.
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Yeah, Stage 4 is typically where taking it easy comes to a sudden end.
In SA and UFO, it's stage 2 :V
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Actually, for SA, it's Stage 1, but then you can take it easy on Stage 2, then you can't take it easy anymore until halfway through the Okuu battle.
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Actually, for SA, it's Stage 1, but then you can take it easy on Stage 2, then you can't take it easy anymore until halfway through the Okuu battle.
Stage 3 in SA is pretty simple is it not?
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Stage 3 in SA is pretty simple is it not?
I find St4 to be easier than St3, and St2 to be easier than St1 (not mentioning bosses)
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I actually have no problem in Stages 1, 2 and 4 of SA, but Stage 3is pretty intense. And Stage 5 is just ... christ. It's a miracle I made it through that once, and I still have no idea how. I gotta watch my replay again.
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I actually have no problem in Stages 1, 2 and 4 of SA, but Stage 3is pretty intense. And Stage 5 is just ... christ. It's a miracle I made it through that once, and I still have no idea how. I gotta watch my replay again.
Same here, except I can't even get to Stage 5 on Normal. The only time I did I ended getting a game over like a second into the stage.
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Since we're arguing over difficulty in stages for SA I'll state that I actually find the difficulty in stages for SA to be relatively balanced, easiest to hardest 1-6..Not counting bosses that is, if you count the bosses, stage 5 is the worst for me. Yuugi is harder than satori for me too.
Anyway, I find stage 1 to not be bad in SA, the problem with it is you're in "lol stage 1 just get 5.00 power asap", and end up playing really stupid and getting yourself killed. If you played it like any other stage and just kinda took it easy with getting power ups and points, it's pretty darn easy. Too bad that's probably not a good idea anyway though.
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Yeah, SA Stage 3 is pretty simple. It's almost all micromemorizable. Actually, the stage is mircomemorizable, and half of Yuugi is.
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Even if you think it's making it easier, I highly recommend you keep it at default lives. A little over a year ago I was a hard mode player who was going nowhere. I finally decided to stop playing on max lives and noticed how much better I was getting at resource management. Two weeks later I began a playing spree where I beat several lunatics in the span of a month. Kind of a dramatic example I know, but seriously, playing on max lives will make you not appreciate the resources you have and thinking you can just blow them with no consequences.
I think this is true, this is why I can't use practice mode. I have 9 lives, and I do really bad in even stage 1's. :V
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You get a score penalty for doing that
Just curious, does this come into play after every stage, or only after you beat the game? Because if it interferes with scoring during runs then it'd delay (or possibly eliminate) score-based extends.
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Every stage. In PoFV, I don't think you even get bonus points.
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A funny story about this... I was playing EoSD when I first started and had max lives and bombs. I couldn't 1CC, had to use a continue but still it was great fun.
I then wanted to clear it "normal" and when I was done playing, I went to options and set the number of lives to 2. Think that it was the number of "extra" lives you have, not total lives you have at the start.
Needless to say for an entire week I was trying to 1CC EoSD with 2 starting lives until I watched a replay and realized I'm a dumb.
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Needless to say for an entire week I was trying to 1CC EoSD with 2 starting lives until I watched a replay and realized I'm a dumb.
I can 1-up you. When I decided to try out Touhou, I downloaded the EoSD demo and immediately went to options. Not knowing what "Player" meant, I set it to 1 thinking it meant 1 player only.
I think it took 2-3 nights before I realized why the demo was so unforgiving with lives. :-\
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I didn't know what focused movement was until SA came out (I started with MoF) and was just stumped at how the hell I was supposed to dodge all this madness.