Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Serela on September 19, 2009, 04:11:09 PM

Title: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Serela on September 19, 2009, 04:11:09 PM
I was wondering exactly how much damage the UFO bombs did, and the old damage analysis from the demo is apparently gone forever. So, I went and tested them all against EX-Kogasa's first spellcard Umbrella Sign "Lightly Falling Large Raindrops".

This spellcard was used for ease of reaching quickly with at least 1 bomb and max power, and because its health takes up the entire lifebar, exaggerating differences in damage. Damage was tested by waiting until the first wave of raindrops spawned at the bottom, then hitting Z and X at the same time and moving into the optimal damage positions as fast as possible. Shooting was stopped at the end of the bomb, and then I screenshotted the lifebar.

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2356/bombdamage.png)

This is the remaining lifebar after optimal bombing. So, shorter=more damage dealt.

ReimuB's bomb is significantly stronger if you position yourself so that "Fantasy Seal"'s light orbs are ontop of the boss.

And yes, MarisaB does more damage with an unfocused shotgun, opposed to focused. The difference would be more significant if her bomb wasn't incredibly short. Make use of this, you MarisaB users!

You should shotgun SanaeB focused if you are at max power, and unfocused at any lower power. You might have to sit right on top of the boss to get all those frogs to hit.



All shot types were tested at full power, with the usual postions used to do most damage while bombing.

I'd record the damage of the regular shot against Flying Fantastica, but I have no idea how to hack myself invincible, so I can't do that with any kind of decent accuracy. Sorry!  ;) Have fun with your new knowledge of bombs.

Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Bananamatic on September 19, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
So why does MarisaB even exist anyways? :V
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Serela on September 19, 2009, 04:23:21 PM
Quote from: Bananamatic on September 19, 2009, 04:16:10 PM
So why does MarisaB even exist anyways? :V
...its sad that this is actually a good question  ;)

Maybe MarisaB is meant to be a "Challenge" Attack type, where you can't just skip spellcards with a bomb. Her regular shot is pretty decent, but... I really have no other idea why ZUN would make her bomb so terrible.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Matsuri on September 19, 2009, 04:33:23 PM
I like using MarisaB. Her bomb sucks, but she has good shotgun damage and can cover a lot of area with her spread shot.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Bananamatic on September 19, 2009, 04:34:43 PM
And I swear that SanaeA's bomb was much stronger.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Matsuri on September 19, 2009, 04:35:56 PM
I didn't expect ReimuA's bomb to be so strong, either.

Come to think of it, it seems that a lot of the bombs got nerfed from the demo, where they all were ridiculously strong.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: LHCling on September 19, 2009, 08:59:38 PM
MarisaB is for the skillful  :V

...how close were you for SanaeB *full* shotgun? Because at 4.00 Power, there are six frogs being fired when focused.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Zengeku on September 19, 2009, 09:02:21 PM
Quote from: BaityMS on September 19, 2009, 08:59:38 PM
MarisaB is for the skillful  :V

...how close were you for SanaeB *full* shotgun? Because at 4.00 Power, there are six frogs being fired when focused.

Yeah, like MarisaC from SA.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Serela on September 19, 2009, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: BaityMS on September 19, 2009, 08:59:38 PM

...how close were you for SanaeB *full* shotgun? Because at 4.00 Power, there are six frogs being fired when focused.

Is this question for me? The comment about six frogs doesn't seem to relate to anything anyone said.  ??? Anyway, I believe I was just about sitting on top of Kogasa, focused.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Drake on September 19, 2009, 11:32:22 PM
He meant unfocused. SanaeB fires 4 frogs when focused and 6 when unfocused, resulting in much more damage.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Serela on September 19, 2009, 11:41:35 PM
Quote from: Captain Drake I on September 19, 2009, 11:32:22 PM
He meant unfocused. SanaeB fires 4 frogs when focused and 6 when unfocused, resulting in much more damage.

No, at 4 power, she fires 6 frogs focused and 4 unfocused. You might be missing the 2 frogs on top of the rainbowy base shot. At 4 power, her focused shotgun is stronger then unfocused shotgun.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Heartbeam on September 19, 2009, 11:47:47 PM
If it's not too much trouble, could you try this out with Sanae B at 3.00 power unfocused?  I don't mind giving it a try, but by the end of the bomb do you mean when the invulnerability phase ends?  So you take a screenshot after dying but before the deathwave damage registers, or...?

Also, what was your optimal damage position for Reimu B and her bomb?  Too obvious I guess, but curious.  Both of those questions are too obvious.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Serela on September 19, 2009, 11:51:50 PM
Quote from: Heartbeam on September 19, 2009, 11:47:47 PM
If it's not too much trouble, could you try this out with Sanae B at 3.00 power unfocused?  I don't mind giving it a try, but by the end of the bomb do you mean when the invulnerability phase ends?  So you take a screenshot after dying but before the deathwave damage registers, or...?

Also, what was your optimal damage position for Reimu B and her bomb?  Too obvious I guess, but curious.

I'll hop to SanaeB 3 power in a second. And I ran backwards just as the invulnerability should be ending, except on the MarisaB bombs; her invulnerability actually ends before the bomb, so I just ended up taking the hit. I'm afraid deathbomb damage did register for the MarisaB bombs, but you can tell its by far the weakest anyway.

And with ReimuB... I had originally written the remaining lifebar down on paper, and then double-checked... THEN realized I should just screenshot it... so I think it does the most damage if you keep the orbs over Kogasa before they home in, but I was too sick of doing it to double-check again x_x
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Drake on September 19, 2009, 11:58:18 PM
Oh, whoops. Was it reversed in the demo or something? I remember it being the opposite when looking at it before.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Serela on September 20, 2009, 12:13:24 AM
For Heartbeam's requests, here is a picture with SanaeB at 3 power added in. Its put right beneath the 4 Power ones.

Also, I did ReimuB's bomb from a distance and put that in; its an awful lot weaker that way. I double-checked the damage dealt when you position the orbs over Kogasa, and it really does help the damage a lot. I'll edit that into my first post.

(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7553/bombdamageextras.png)
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Suikama on September 20, 2009, 12:36:57 AM
Sanae at 3 power does more damage than 4?
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Serela on September 20, 2009, 12:40:50 AM
Quote from: Suikam⑨ on September 20, 2009, 12:36:57 AM
Sanae at 3 power does more damage than 4?

...WAIT WHAT. Holy crap. I'm going to go check the value I got for Sanae at 4 power, because thats just... I was suspecting it might be that way, but I wasn't seriously thinking it. Just a second~
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: LHCling on September 20, 2009, 12:44:29 AM
That's weird, because 4.00 Power focused shotgun should be doing WAAAAAY more than 3 Power unfocused.

It's is however, a fact that 3 unfocused is stronger than 3 focused. (at proper shotgun range).

EDIT: Checking the various data that the Japanese have summed up.
EDIT 2: Copying data...
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Serela on September 20, 2009, 12:59:01 AM
Aaah~ I made some derp mistake. After checking damage of Sanae 4 Power focused and unfocused, getting the same result as original, I did 3 power again and got a much different result. I probably messed up the cut-paste somewhere, auuugh.

(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7553/bombdamageextras.png)

Kay, sorry about that  :-X

On the other hand, the hapzard UFO gathering I've been doing in these has resulted in higher Life/Bomb gains then my normal way. 2.5 lives and 6 bombs, or 3 lives and 4.66 bombs, when reaching Kogasa. Ooo.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: LHCling on September 20, 2009, 01:19:13 AM
Not a direct quote, as I've added a few headings. Some inaccuracies, and doesn't cover 3.xx Power or anything lower. Source: Kouryaku as usual.

HeroineTypeSpell Card(Bomb) PowerInvincible TimeBomb + P4 ShotsComments
ADream Sign "Wild Exorcism Dance"5606.51678Half Movement Speed, Narrow Range
ReimuBSpirit Sign "Fantasy Seal"3203.9836.8密着で威力が跳ね上がる、ただし張り付くと一瞬で破裂する (something about instantaneous bursts?)
BSpirit Sign "Fantasy Seal" (adhered*)5203.91036.8^
MarisaALove Sign "Master Spark"4605.71332.1Decreased speed, no other damage to the front
BMagic Sign "Ultimate Short Wave"1603.3738Bomb effect shorter than invincibility time, the weakest
SanaeASnake Sign "Orochi of Ancient Times"3004.7962.7Slightly stronger than MarisaB
BFrog Sign "Wily Toad"4805.21728爆発前の光にも判定があるため、張り付けると更に強い (something about actions prior to the explosion; i.e. delay; making this really powerful... or something)


Translations are mine. Anything I'm unsure of has the original text in-tact as well.
Regarding MarisaB, the bomb effect (i.e. the damage that occurs during the bomb) is really really short, much shorter than even the invulnerability time.

*My mistake (from before). This probably refers to having the orbs continually hitting the boss.
Title: Re: UFO Bomb Damage
Post by: Heartbeam on September 20, 2009, 01:52:04 AM
Quote from: NeoSerela on September 20, 2009, 12:59:01 AM
Aaah~ I made some derp mistake.

What, no way!  Time to put together some pictorial evidence.

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5456/solei.png)

Granted, the time difference is a little too widened for Sanae's 4.00 focused because of the fist coming down the middle, but that should be proof enough of the inferiority of max power in that scenario.  If you really need to see the minute-long replays they're both up on gensokyo.org.