Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Helepolis on August 14, 2017, 04:44:28 pm

Title: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Helepolis on August 14, 2017, 04:44:28 pm
Archive
※ Miscellaneous Questions Thread #1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,3947.0.html)
※ Miscellaneous Questions Thread #2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8344.0.html)
※ Miscellaneous Questions Thread #3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13761.0.html)
※ Miscellaneous Questions Thread #4 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15213.0.html)
※ Miscellaneous Questions Thread #5 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16752.0.html)
※ Miscellaneous Questions Thread #6 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18814.0.html)



☯ Welcome to the Miscellaneous Questions thread! ☯

The main purpose of this thread is to ask your random, one-off questions about different aspects of Touhou. You should always be aware of the Touhou Wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki) before asking your question.

No question is stupid, and therefore you shouldn't feel stupid or shy. We treat each other with respect and try to provide useful, valid and helpful replies. When posting your answers, please try to provide as much as evidence as possible. If it is a question about canon, cite sources. If it is a question about fanon, try to provide evidence. Don't claim things if you're unsure.


Important announcement for thread #7 and future
With the birth of #7, we're going to approach things slightly different. Don't worry! We're not going to police your questions. The main reason is to improve organisation for easy look up.

So when do you ask your question here? And when could it be a separate thread? It is hard to say. Here a few examples of typical misc questions:
- A question whether all Touhou characters weir bloomers in canon (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18814.msg1246072.html#msg1246072)
- A question on how to pronounce Chang'E (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18814.msg1246259.html#msg1246259)
- A question about Sanae wearing something around her neck in UFO (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16752.msg1089697.html#msg1089697)
- A question about Marisa and Reimu's footwear in PC-98. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18814.msg1356453.html#msg1356453)


Moderators will do their best to organise the thread and posts if needed. Therefore, questions might be merged and some might be split into unique threads. If you have any concerns, questions or comments don't hesitate to PM a moderator!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Tengukami on August 15, 2017, 06:40:49 pm
Janitor's Note:

If you need a quick and easy rule of thumb, think of it this way:

Your question has one, verifiable answer: post it here.
Your question is speculative, open, with multiple possible answers: make it its own thread.

That said, we'd like to raise the quality of the speculation threads, if at all possible. Pretty much any thread can spark a worthwhile discussion, but we've noticed that speculations that are either broad or can cite evidence from different sources will make for a better discussion than narrow questions that rely solely on pure imagination.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on August 21, 2017, 03:09:24 pm
It's a headband all along?
(http://i.imgur.com/9lxZJ40.jpg)
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Electroll on August 21, 2017, 04:01:16 pm
I'm really confused with Junko's ability because in LOLK, she used that ability to purify fairies into pure lifeforce and because of that, Lunarians have to run away because with life comes with death. However, Zun also said that her ability is capable of bringing back to its godly nature, aka making something/somebody a god. So the question is whether her ability is the former or the latter or both? If it's both, does that make the fairies temporarily some kind of lifeforce gods? Do the lunarians reject gods from entering their terrority?

Another question: Are all lunarians gods? I've read somewhere which I can't remember where that the Lunar Capital acts as a place for the greater gods to live. Not sure if that's true.

One more question: Is Eirin canonically a god? There are many references that state that Eirin might be the god of wisdom, Omoikane. However, are those just references or what?

Last question (Edit): What really happened after "winning" Okina during Stage6. Did Okina teleport them away or did the protagonists run away?



Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on August 21, 2017, 05:42:27 pm
I'm really confused with Junko's ability because in LOLK, she used that ability to purify fairies into pure lifeforce and because of that, Lunarians have to run away because with life comes with death. However, Zun also said that her ability is capable of bringing back to its godly nature, aka making something/somebody a god. So the question is whether her ability is the former or the latter or both? If it's both, does that make the fairies temporarily some kind of lifeforce gods?
It's both. "Godly nature" here refers to the concept that gods are inherently a part of everything, and only by pinning down what aspects a god has, or what it belongs to, does the god settle on being that thing. A god can be many things until it's refined by being given a name or a purpose. Junko's power didn't make fairies "lifeforce gods", it's that one essence of fairies is their representation of life force, and her power refined that aspect in the same sense that a god becomes a "god of [blank]" by having their identity refined. Note that in the interview you're talking about, ZUN mentions that he established a lot of this background in CoLA. Some relevant chapters:

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Curiosities_of_Lotus_Asia/Chapter_15
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Curiosities_of_Lotus_Asia/Chapter_25

Chapter 15 is probably the most relevant to get the background, but 25 also contextualizes how "divine spirits" (and thus Junko) enter the picture. Yes it's pretty confusing.

Another question: Are all lunarians gods? I've read somewhere which I can't remember where that the Lunar Capital acts as a place for the greater gods to live. Not sure if that's true.
It wouldn't be apt to say that all Lunarians are gods, but the Lunar Capital models Takamagahara, where the earliest Shinto gods live. These gods are called the Amatsukami / Heavenly Gods, and are the gods referred to in Shinto creation myths as well as many of the famous ones several generations down. Yorihime and Toyohime for example are also Heavenly Gods, but some generations away from Eirin. It's kind of assumed that all Lunarians are either gods or descended directly from gods.

One more question: Is Eirin canonically a god? There are many references that state that Eirin might be the god of wisdom, Omoikane. However, are those just references or what?
Related to the above, she canonically is Omoikane, who is a Heavenly god; while the name Omoikane isn't explicitly stated in-universe, there are many pieces of information and dialogue that make it clear who she is. Out-of-universe ZUN goes as far as to say she's amongst the gods on the Moon (i.e. the Heavenly Gods) in the SoPM interview, and later says she carries the "motif" of Omoikane in her SCoOW Who's Who comment section.

Last question (Edit): What really happened after "winning" Okina during Stage6. Did Okina teleport them away or did the protagonists run away?
Kind of all of the above? She steals the magic you gathered (because it was her power that let you do so); you both leave through doors. Aya and Marisa acknowledge they had lost, Reimu and Cirno don't but are convinced otherwise.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Electroll on August 22, 2017, 11:48:19 am
Chapter 15 is probably the most relevant to get the background, but 25 also contextualizes how "divine spirits" (and thus Junko) enter the picture. Yes it's pretty confusing.

After reading CoLA Chapter 15 and 25, can I safely say that Junko is a goddess too since she's a divine spirit. If divine spirits are indeed god/goddess, didn't the protagonists beat up a truck tons of gods during TD?

Kind of all of the above? She steals the magic you gathered (because it was her power that let you do so); you both leave through doors. Aya and Marisa acknowledge they had lost, Reimu and Cirno don't but are convinced otherwise.

So, what is the reason for Okina for teleporting the protagonists away or leaving through her own door if she had the upper hand? And how come the protagonists didnt realise that they are the one running away?


Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Hello Purvis on August 22, 2017, 10:51:44 pm
While we're on the subject, I have a question. Is it officially known where Kanako falls into all of this? She isn't a native god, certainly, but does this imply that she fits in among the Lunarian deities? Or is she somewhere in between? I've assumed it was one of the latter two, but I am curious if there is anything other than fanon on the topic.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: martelefort on August 22, 2017, 11:35:35 pm
To just quote ZUN from his interview in Symposium of post mysticism : " My thought is that the Lunar Capital is where the highest, noblest gods live. On the other hand, Gensokyo is where the more friendly, indigenous gods live. ".

So Kanako fall into the second category. The creation of the Lunar Capital was that Lord Tsukoyomi fled the earth with his relatives ( Eirin being one of them ) to escape impurity. Maybe we can assume that most of his relatives or their descendant were or became lunarian gods. We can't even know if Kanako was alive(?) at the time.

That's all i can think of. Maybe if you gain enough faith as a God on earth, you can ascend as a God on the lunar capital ? I doubt it, but we never know.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on August 22, 2017, 11:53:22 pm
The confusion comes from the fact that heavenly god and native god aren't strictly mutually exclusive. Heavenly god should be taken very literally- it's not so much a special race and more a nationality. A heavenly god is simply a god from heaven (takemagahara/the moon).
A native god, on the other hand, refers to a god born purely from faith, with no divine spirit as a basis. The opposite of a heavenly god isn't a native god, it'd just be an "earthly" god. Kanako is one of those "earthly" gods, but she's not a native god. She has a divine spirit. Hypothetically, you could have a god from heaven that's made purely of faith.

That said, IIRC, native gods are extremely impure. So in practice, you'll most likely never see a native heavenly god.

As for the other thing, the confusion here comes from the fact that there are several concepts which we in the west consider extremely different, but touhou calls them all "gods". To put it simply (and I might have some stuff wrong), there are two kinds of "gods". The first is closer to what we would call a soul. Once a soul becomes worshipped and deified, a god, as westerners understand it, is made from a copy of that soul. In TD you were fighting very weak spirits born from people's desires, which are gods in the former sense. Junko is a bodiless spirit so she's also a god in the former sense. But neither are worshipped by any means, so they're not gods in the latter sense.

Generally touhou refers to the former as spirits (either divine spirits, vengeful spirits, or whatever) and the latter as gods, but not always, so it gets kind of confusing.

EDIT: I also feel that I should add a disclaimer. ZUN has never said directly that "Lunarian gods and earth gods are the same in all but nationality", and if new material comes up that might prove to be totally wrong. He's just never given us any indication that they are different. That's besides the point either way, though. The more important thing is that Lunarian gods and native gods aren't strictly opposites, that's native gods and divine-spirit-type gods like kanako.

(Also that native god technically refers to something else but I don't know what else to call them. So for simplicity's sake I'm calling "gods that are born from purely faith" native gods.)
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on August 23, 2017, 01:16:58 am
From what I know, way way back in ancient Japan, there were lots of different tribes, each with their own pantheon of gods. In Touhouverse this would include the Moriya, Suwako's people.

Then, one of these tribes, the Yamato, thought of unifying the entire land. So they conquered the other tribes, replacing their myths with their own. Kanako is one of the gods in the Yamato side.

I think native gods simply mean gods from pantheon other than the Yamato's one. This symbolized in Suwako's spellcard "Central Myth vs Native Myth".

Incidentally, "tsuchigumo" (Yamame's species) were originally derogatives of the remains of the native tribes.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on August 23, 2017, 03:45:29 am
It's not really about being from a pantheon other than the Yamato one; that'd make Hecatia a native god as well, for instance. Rather, the term just refers to any god that is worshipped in a single area, different from gods that are more broadly worshipped (like Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi).

As Akyuu says in SoPM, Suwako's profile:
Quote from: Akyuu
Native gods are gods that are only worshiped in a limited region. When they are separated from their land, they lose their faith, but within their area, it's not uncommon for them to have more power than wide-ranging (and perhaps even the highest level of) gods.

Also, to simplify things, I think it's easier to define the lunarian gods as being the big important gods from Shinto myth, while the Earth gods are the Myriad Gods and the divine spirits that receive some sort of worship.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on August 23, 2017, 05:34:09 am
After reading CoLA Chapter 15 and 25, can I safely say that Junko is a goddess too since she's a divine spirit. If divine spirits are indeed god/goddess, didn't the protagonists beat up a truck tons of gods during TD?
I think this is still more of an issue of conflating all kinds of "gods" as some sort of equally relevant things when they aren't. There's not much of a point in calling Junko a god as though she's the same thing as a god that's revered. She's a divine spirit because whatever her original existence was has been completely removed from how she is represented, she is the pure "essence" or kami nature of her own story.

So, what is the reason for Okina for teleporting the protagonists away or leaving through her own door if she had the upper hand? And how come the protagonists didnt realise that they are the one running away?
I dunno.

While we're on the subject, I have a question. Is it officially known where Kanako falls into all of this? She isn't a native god, certainly, but does this imply that she fits in among the Lunarian deities? Or is she somewhere in between? I've assumed it was one of the latter two, but I am curious if there is anything other than fanon on the topic.
Others have posted enough to cover it, but the two CoLA chapters I posted are also relevant to her because similarly to Junko, her original identity has been "lost". It's clear that Kanako is generally intended to be an adaptation of the god Takeminakata, but deeper than that, divine spirits are they way they are because they were existing entities (typically humans or groups of humans) but have become detached and twisted from their original existence due to being worshiped (in Kanako's case) or otherwise becoming legend (like Junko).

Understanding that there's a difference between the myriad gods and divine spirits worshiped as gods, the natural question that follows is why Kanako is a divine spirit while Suwako is a myriad god. This is what leads into the discussion of the nature of those two myths; the old native Suwa god was Moreya, who did not have some sort of clear historical origin (i.e. just kind of made up by locals because reasons); meanwhile the god Suwa-Myojin worshiped in Suwa and said to have defeated Moreya is now identified as Takeminakata. "Suwa-Myojin" has a couple additional stories of origin as its own thing depending on region and time period, and Takeminakata is full of chunky historical conflation, being intrinsically tied to the Yamato rule, which was of course political and very human.

Also included in this is the fact that in the Suwa region itself, the god "Takeminakata" was basically never historically worshiped as such, and instead it's the Mishaguji that were commonly the target of worship and active role in rituals. This is alluded to by ZUN by having Kanako being "unable to control" the Mishaguji, which were the main cultural targets of reverence and fear at the time, and having Suwako be the one to control the Mishaguji while Kanako takes the face of leading the region. This is kind of how Takeminakata is seen today, being the "official" god but getting to that point by being slapped on and conflated with other myths to get there. In fact, this is arguably the justification for Kanako existing at all, because similarly to Miko, it's possible that scholarly criticism of Takeminakata's legitimacy is why ZUN chose to "move" them into Gensokyo.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on August 23, 2017, 06:47:39 am
Just to add more texture to the "god" thing, tsukumogami like Kogasa are also described as kami. That's the meaning of the word "gami" at the end. This also applies to to shikigami (Ran and Chen) and shinigami (Komachi). None of these spirits would be considered "gods" in the Western sense, but kami is a much broader term than that.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on August 23, 2017, 12:57:39 pm
By the way, what even IS the term for gods born purely of faith (as opposed to having a divine spirit as a basis)? Or is there not one, and that's more a footnote of Suwako's rather than a whole category of god?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on August 23, 2017, 01:10:45 pm
Speaking of gods, is Hecatia even the same category of "god" as Kanako, Suwako, or even the Lunarians? She seems like simply a powerful...whatever she is, and her "Goddess" is just a title.

Although given how gods work in Touhou, I guess she can be both.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on August 23, 2017, 01:13:53 pm
It's explicitly stated (I want to say it's in her AFiEU interview) almost word for word what you said. That "god" is just a term they use for the strongest people in Hell. A fairy can be a god down there if they're strong enough. So you're absolutely right.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on August 23, 2017, 01:24:51 pm
By the way, what even IS the term for gods born purely of faith (as opposed to having a divine spirit as a basis)? Or is there not one, and that's more a footnote of Suwako's rather than a whole category of god?
That would be the myriad gods. In the broadest sense they're the gods that inhabit all things (i.e. animism), and typically the term would imply that kind of god specifically rather than including the gods that have become worshiped (or to put it in ZUN's terms, "gods with names"), since in most contexts you'd just call those "gods".

Speaking of gods, is Hecatia even the same category of "god" as Kanako, Suwako, or even the Lunarians? She seems like simply a powerful...whatever she is, and her "Goddess" is just a title.
Well, she is based on Hecate, who is a goddess, but notably from a totally different kind of mythos. I would guess this the reason why ZUN calls her a goddess but also implies it's a title, as she wouldn't really be considered a god in a Shinto sense. Maybe.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Polaris on August 24, 2017, 08:19:56 pm
So, what is the reason for Okina for teleporting the protagonists away or leaving through her own door if she had the upper hand? And how come the protagonists didnt realise that they are the one running away?

As I understand it, Okina had the upper hand because she was able to kick the protagonists outóthat was her surefire way of winning. The whole "running away" thing is kind of weird, but really Okina just kicks them out and then tries to portray it as them "running away" as, like, a show of superiority or something.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shadowlupus on August 25, 2017, 08:35:30 am
I asked this in the last thread but got no response so I'm copying the whole thing here.



I'm here to ask for a permission to upload official? images that are missing from our wiki.

Is it all right to upload,

- 4koma in BAiJR?

- 4 different Message Papers like the one in Memorizable Gensokyo. According to the Thai wiki, each of these is received from buying PMiSS at 4 different stores: Toranoana, Melonbooks, White Canvas and Gamers. These papers are not given out anymore.

Of course, the images I'm going to upload are still in Japanese.


For another thing, is there any site for a Japanese transcript for CoLA and BAiJR? As I was looking at both wiki as usual, I noticed that ours misses one or two entire dialogue boxes.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Electroll on August 26, 2017, 12:27:14 pm
Since the Lunarians created a fake pure land which enabled them to live up till million of years and the Netherworld is a purer land than the moon, would Youmu have the lifespan of million of years or just normal lifespan of half human half phantom (assuming she lives in Netherworld for the rest of her life).
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Quanta on August 28, 2017, 06:55:01 pm
Since the Lunarians created a fake pure land which enabled them to live up till million of years and the Netherworld is a purer land than the moon, would Youmu have the lifespan of million of years or just normal lifespan of half human half phantom (assuming she lives in Netherworld for the rest of her life).
Youmu is half phantom,so even if we assume that the Netherworld is even purer than Lunar Capital she'd probably die sooner than them,thanks to her human half "poisoning" her with impurity.
Or at least that's how I think impurity works in Touhou lore.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on August 28, 2017, 10:26:04 pm
Eh, it's not being human in itself that makes one impure, it's living in the strife-ridden Earth that generates impurity. I assume that if Youmu never ever left the Netherworld, ever. she would probably live forever, but she does visit Gensokyo with some frequency, so she probably has some kegare clinging to her.
It's not like she won't be living for a long time anyway, being a half-youkai and all, though.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on August 28, 2017, 10:32:13 pm
Impurity (汚れ; kegare) is lifeforce (生命力; seimeiryoku), ie: the power of nature and what fairies are made of. It's the energy that makes flowers bloom and all organisms grow. However, the act of growth also brings them closer to death; you could say life and death are two sides of the same coin. Lunarians avoid death by also avoiding life. The moon is "sterile" and therefore "pure".

Similarly, the netherworld lacks both life and death, so if Youmu stayed there forever she would never grow old or die.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on August 29, 2017, 01:46:47 am
But there are fairies in the Netherworld?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on August 29, 2017, 04:50:17 am
Considering Mai and Satono would eventually stop becoming human if they keep working for Okina, I was wondering: What do you guys think they'd become if that transition occurs?  Youkai?  Divine spirit?  Something else entirely? 

I'd love to hear your theories!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on August 29, 2017, 05:11:13 am
They're already inhuman. They've become living puppets animated by Okina's magic. She says that if she freed them them they'd have their humanity restored.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on August 29, 2017, 07:44:26 am
They're already inhuman. They've become living puppets animated by Okina's magic. She says that if she freed them them they'd have their humanity restored.

Oh wow, I never pictured it like that!  Interesting, so I guess they're more or less the same as Yoshika huh?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on August 29, 2017, 08:43:41 am
Or maybe like shikigami?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Electroll on August 29, 2017, 08:57:15 am
I remembered asking a question in Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating where I asked whether a person would go to heaven and become a celestial after attaining Nirvana. The reply I got implied that they don't and would reach a state of non-existence.
Then, I read this phrase from PMiSS : '30: Upon nirvana, one can go to Heaven, but Heaven is already full, so I hear that nirvana is restricted now.'
So now I am pretty confused with what is Nirvana, what do you become and where would you be after Nirvana. Can someone clarify this for me?

Link to the page of Miscellaneous Questions 6: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18814.msg1329569.html#msg1329569
Link to PMiSS where I found the phrase: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Netherworld
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on August 30, 2017, 12:22:00 am
But there are fairies in the Netherworld?
They can probably be considered as coming from Gensokyo and to just be visiting the place. They do go crazy every time there's an incident, and we only see fairies in there during incidents, so...
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on August 30, 2017, 12:40:13 am
I also feel like the stage fairies popping up everywhere might not be canon... in HSiFS Okina and everyone seems pretty surprised the cirno, a simple fairy, could somehow make it to the world of back doors....

Despite the fact that stage ex has plenty of them, and stage 6 has one of its 2 enemy types be giant fairies.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on August 30, 2017, 12:53:39 am
Huh, you know, that IS a pretty big oversight on Zun's part, considering that he went through the trouble of not having fairies as enemies in the Moon Capital during stage 4 of LoLK.

Well, it's Zun we're talking about so :V
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on August 30, 2017, 01:04:22 am
There's a difference between a fairy making it into the world of back doors, and fairies who were born there and never left. I mean, even Hell has its own native fairies, so there's no reason to believe fairies can't spontaneously pop into exist in an alternate dimension. Okina could've easily recognized Cirno as an outsider from the door on her back as well as Mai's report.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on August 30, 2017, 01:16:46 am
Ooooh true, I didn't consider that.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on August 30, 2017, 05:54:26 pm
Speaking of HSiFS plot points, I was thinking earlier:  If it was Okina/Satono/Mai's doing that made people from Gensokyo get their power boosts (including, technically, the protagonists with their seasonal options), why'd they bother empowering Aya?

As a Tengu, and therefore an enemy of Okina, I can't see them giving her power on purpose.  Did they just make it so _everyone_ would be empowered by the incident, or is there something I'm missing here?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on August 30, 2017, 07:40:49 pm
They also empowered Larva despite her supposedly being one of Okina's enemies (or even just a symbol of that enemy), and they said to have made it to "absolutely everyone", which leads to my question: do they literally have to dance behind people to do that, one at a time, or would they be able to do it in grand scale? Otherwise how long would it take to do that to everyone?

Also, i wonder if the superpowerful enemy in AoCF is that strong because of this?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on August 30, 2017, 09:54:01 pm
Okina ordered them to power up everyone, so they did.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on September 01, 2017, 09:03:58 am
Thinking back on LoLK's plot, what -would- Junko do if she got her hands on Chang'e anyway?

I mean, Chang'e's immortal, so shooting her down wouldn't even really have much of a consequence.

Kind of feels like it's the same 'revenge' ideal that Mokou has for Kaguya. 
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on September 01, 2017, 09:14:52 am
Thinking back on LoLK's plot, what -would- Junko do if she got her hands on Chang'e anyway?

I mean, Chang'e's immortal, so shooting her down wouldn't even really have much of a consequence.

Kind of feels like it's the same 'revenge' ideal that Mokou has for Kaguya.

Torment Chang'E for the rest of her life (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMSDBPntMPE)?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Phasm on September 01, 2017, 07:56:16 pm
In IN why did the main heroines need to stop the night in order to stop Kaguya and Eirin? Why was it necessary to begin with?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on September 01, 2017, 09:28:07 pm
in order to have the time mechanic

Really though the main reason is that it would have only been a full moon on that night; the next night would have not been full. Sure, they stop the night because if they took too long they'd miss the moon, but there isn't actually any reason to write the story so that they would take that long. Instead it's written so that you can get the Normal ending and have to set back out again later (which is fine because you stopped the night), and then get the Good ending when Kaguya realizes you've stopped the night and puts an end to it. So in that sense stopping the night is the strange justification for being able to have two final stages intended to be on the same night.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: legwan-w-spioszkach on September 02, 2017, 11:24:19 am
A question that recently struck me hard:
Where the humans and youkai of Gensokyo go after death?
It is like a free market, where all three Higan, Netherworld and Hell are competing for souls?
Because I can't think of anything else.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: martelefort on September 02, 2017, 11:38:55 am
A question that recently struck me hard:
Where the humans and youkai of Gensokyo go after death?
It is like a free market, where all three Higan, Netherworld and Hell are competing for souls?
Because I can't think of anything else.

I'm pretty sure that when someone dies, he goes to Higan to be ferried to the Yama, where the soul gets judged. After that, he either goes to Hell or to Heaven, i think the netherworld act as some sort of purgatory where the souls go when they are waiting for reincarnation ( as i recall some characters lying about heaven being crowded ).
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on September 02, 2017, 09:29:04 pm
I'm pretty sure that when someone dies, he goes to Higan to be ferried to the Yama, where the soul gets judged. After that, he either goes to Hell or to Heaven, i think the netherworld act as some sort of purgatory where the souls go when they are waiting for reincarnation ( as i recall some characters lying about heaven being crowded ).
Pretty much that. The only correction to be made is that the Netherworld is actually where people that weren't deemed good enough to go to Heaven but weren't bad enough to go to Hell are sent. They remain there until they either achieve Nirvana or reincarnate, though achieving Nirvana is currently restricted because of the "heaven is full" lie that the celestials spread.

It's kinda relevant to remember that even souls that go to Heaven and Hell are bound to reincarnate eventually, by the way. The souls in the Netherworld aren't unique on that account.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on September 02, 2017, 10:52:44 pm
What reason Seiran and Ringo stay on Gensokyo ?
Aren't they afraid of becoming like Udongein ? or they actually unaware of that ?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on September 02, 2017, 11:35:59 pm
What reason Seiran and Ringo stay on Gensokyo ?
Aren't they afraid of becoming like Udongein ? or they actually unaware of that ?

Probably because rabbits are treated like slaves by the Lunarians. They don't care about impurity either.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on September 03, 2017, 12:03:08 am
Though just probability it kind of make sense.

I actually want to ask again why Seiran selling Dango instead of Mochi but i will hold back for now. i will just imagine it as "I'll beat you on yo stage, mofo!".
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lollipop on September 04, 2017, 04:41:06 am
does it snow in gensokyo question mark
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on September 04, 2017, 05:36:46 am
does it snow in gensokyo question mark
Perfect Cherry Blossom happened literally because it wouldn't stop snowing.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lollipop on September 04, 2017, 07:17:29 am
Perfect Cherry Blossom happened literally because it wouldn't stop snowing.

good point, lol i'm dumb  :V
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Jeremie on September 04, 2017, 07:47:17 am
I sort of (jokingly) think that it's always Winter in Gensokyo. This is primary because each time I look at all those chapters from the various manga series, Winter and snow are often present.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on September 04, 2017, 08:29:46 am
ZUN puts a very significant amount of effort into making all of his works accurate to the season in terms of the environments, character designs, subject matter, dialogue, everything. Many pieces are focused on extremely specific items relevant to that time of the year just because that's what he figured would be interesting to write about. If you try to pay attention to this it's absolutely everywhere, even down to just having a single line that establishes it's indeed the time of year it's intended to be. I can't even recall one work where the time of year is not appropriate (when works are released is a different matter, although typically this is either due to delays or intentional out-of-order events). Please appreciate.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on September 04, 2017, 06:07:47 pm
Yes, if you read the manga regularly, you'll notice that they almost always go out of their way to establish a season within the first couple of pages. And that's exactly the season they were released in.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on September 04, 2017, 10:35:16 pm
I suppose that also would explain why so many games take place during either Summer or Spring, huh?   Sure there's a few games that break the rule (MoF, SA), but it's still interesting to note. 

If I remember correctly, August is in Summer in Japan.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on September 05, 2017, 01:21:50 am
The games always come out in summer Comiket, so that doesn't really mean much. You just have to look for seasonal clues in the games themselves. Although we only learn in WaHH that HSiFS takes place in summer.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on September 05, 2017, 01:25:14 am
I believe the prologue also mentions it's midsummer, actually!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on September 08, 2017, 08:51:31 pm
* Sorry for the double post! *

I keep reading sources (apparently even ZUN said it in an interview, once too) that Yoshika is a Chinese Jiang-shi, but isn't she based on a Japanese poet?  Why's there this discrepancy between her nationality?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Prime32 on September 08, 2017, 09:49:05 pm
* Sorry for the double post! *

I keep reading sources (apparently even ZUN said it in an interview, once too) that Yoshika is a Chinese Jiang-shi, but isn't she based on a Japanese poet?  Why's there this discrepancy between her nationality?
There is no discrepancy. Seiga is a Chinese woman who knows spells for creating jiangshi, and she used them on a Japanese corpse.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on September 08, 2017, 10:29:20 pm
That's what I think so too, but I've heard Yoshika being described as Chinese before, not to mention ZUN himself mentioning it in his Chara Febri interview about the TD roster, which, despite being full of typos apparently, still states:

"Yoshika Miyako: There is obviously some similarity here as she is a Chinese Stage 3 boss, like Hong Meiling.[...]"

Maybe he actually meant she looked Chinese like Meiling?  I don't understand japanese nor do I have the original interview's text with me, but this sentence in particular was what prompted me to ask the question.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on September 08, 2017, 11:34:09 pm
Q: So did the fact that Yoshika is a jiangshi make designing her easier?
Z: Yes, it did. As well her pose.
Q: It was more or less settled right away.
Z: I just had to make her Chinese.

He just started with the concept of her being a jiangshi, and so her design is distinctively Chinese. The question's context was that for most of the characters ZUN didn't have easy motifs to go off of for the designs and whatnot, but Kyouko and Yoshika were exceptions. The part about Meiling was just noting that they're both Chinese-influenced stage 3 bosses and ZUN kind of made it that way on purpose.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on September 09, 2017, 07:20:00 pm
 Aaah so in the end she's a Japanese Jiangshi with a Chinese influenced design.  Got it!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on September 09, 2017, 08:51:29 pm
I'd say she's a Chinese jiangshi made from a Japanese corpse, personally. She has only the smallest traces of the original person.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Goomba98 on September 10, 2017, 07:10:15 pm
Which boss in the Touhou series has the most health bars?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Helepolis on September 10, 2017, 07:35:13 pm
Which boss in the Touhou series has the most health bars?
If you mean the most number of non-spell and spell cards then these would be one of the Extra bosses which can be easily looked up on the Wikipedia you know.

Edit:
Did some research:
- Almost all Extra bosses in the Windows series have exactly 10 spell cards.
- The exclusion is IN and PCB where Mokou has a Final Spell and Yukari has her final survival spell card making it 11.
- Mokou and Yukari are most likely tied in this case.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Goomba98 on September 12, 2017, 10:46:38 am
Do characters like Reimu, Marisa, Alice, and Yuuka have their last names in the PC-98 games?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: martelefort on September 12, 2017, 12:34:53 pm
Do characters like Reimu, Marisa, Alice, and Yuuka have their last names in the PC-98 games?

As i can see on their characters profiles, Reimu and Marisa had their last names the first game they appeared in, While Yuuka only got her in PoFV.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on September 13, 2017, 01:10:25 am
I believe some of the names were written with different kanji back then though.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on September 16, 2017, 04:58:26 pm
How is Yukari supposed to look?  Some people argue that she is supposed to be a loli, as shown in CoLA, and some even claim that her manga appearances lean towards more of a little girl or at least a teen.  ZUN's artwork in Touhou 7 didn't help and only reinforced that she looks very young, but her artworks in the fighting games show her looking like a matured adult, though some people refuse to accept that as the truth, claiming that Alphes is unreliable when it comes to character designs.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on September 16, 2017, 06:17:05 pm
Honestly, she doesn't look that young in any of the manga (compare her to the fairies or Remilia), or in PMiSS/SoPM/BAiJR. CoLA is the only real case that i can recall, but it's one in a sea of examples.
Also ZUN said she's one of the tallest.

And if people don't consider Alphes' art reliable then everything outside ZUN's art shouldn't be considered as well, they can't just choose what they want.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on September 16, 2017, 07:08:56 pm
And if people don't consider Alphes' art reliable then everything outside ZUN's art shouldn't be considered as well, they can't just choose what they want.
The reason for this is because Yukari's eye color being golden rather than the usual purple in their fighting games, so they use this as proof Alphes is unreliable with character designs.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on September 17, 2017, 03:55:56 am
I know who this "some people" is, and he's just a guy from /jp/ who refused to back down after his "most Touhou are loli" statement is proven wrong.

Due to manga artstyle, it's hard to determine exactly how old she is supposed to look, but she looks like a late teen at the youngest. Definitely not a loli.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on September 17, 2017, 04:27:49 am
Yukari isn't a Loli. And ZUN's art is pretty bad most of the time. So using that as evidence as how one character is supposed to look is pretty dumb IMHO.

She's canonically taller than most of the other characters, and is frequently drawn with a bigger bust size as well. And she's an old Youkai, so it would make sense for her to be older looking.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sophilia on September 17, 2017, 01:24:58 pm
Yukari is canonically a tall, mature looking woman, although in her various official art, she isn't very busty at all.  But if the chest is the only category you're looking at to determine if someone is a little girl, you're doing it wrong.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on September 18, 2017, 03:59:37 am
Is there an explanation for her child-like look on CoLA?  Or is that simply the artist taking creative liberties?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Jeremie on September 18, 2017, 05:25:57 am
It could be a variety of things but it's most likely something like you said related to the artist or limited information on how to draw her, the tone/setting of the series or quite simply that as time passed by, ZUN got or changed how he felt how the characters looks, etc.

I like that Eiki shows up in VFiS and she's not a loli. It was about time that old meme got debunked even more.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on September 18, 2017, 06:20:45 am
Genji Asai drew Yukari as a little girl because he only draws one girl ever.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on September 18, 2017, 06:40:18 am
But if the chest is the only category you're looking at to determine if someone is a little girl, you're doing it wrong.
Its not, but with the type of art style that is often used in the touhou media, where same face-ness is a problem, the only real way to determine IMO someones age is their height and breasts, as immature as that is.
And while Yukari has been drawn with flat breasts at times, shes been drawn with larger ones more often than most characters in the series so i presume she's "supposed" to have larger breasts.
Genji Asai drew Yukari as a little girl because he only draws one girl ever.

Good old sexism.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Hello Purvis on September 18, 2017, 07:49:48 am
You heard it here folks! Slender women are clearly children, and saying otherwise is sexist. That old guy solves it again!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on September 18, 2017, 07:54:45 am
You heard it here folks! Slender women are clearly children, and saying otherwise is sexist. That old guy solves it again!

.........Okay, good point. I was being an idiot there.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on September 18, 2017, 08:36:46 am
When it comes to Japanese media, a character's appearance is NOT suitable for identifying his/her age. For example: the cast of Lucky Star are all high school girls, but they all look like lolis.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Helepolis on September 18, 2017, 09:39:31 am
When it comes to Japanese media, a character's appearance is NOT suitable for identifying his/her age. For example: the cast of Lucky Star are all high school girls, but they all look like lolis.
Or high schoolers like in Bleach. They look as if they are in their late twenties (to me) but are actually ~16. Well, later on in the story they became older.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on September 18, 2017, 01:36:40 pm
When it comes to Japanese media, a character's appearance is NOT suitable for identifying his/her age. For example: the cast of Lucky Star are all high school girls, but they all look like lolis.
That's more of the series having chibi art style.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on September 22, 2017, 06:00:42 am
Does Okina actually have any kind of ability over the seasons? Or was she just drawing seasonal power from the fairies who were amped up by Satono and Mai?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on September 22, 2017, 07:17:14 am
Does Okina actually have any kind of ability over the seasons? Or was she just drawing seasonal power from the fairies who were amped up by Satono and Mai?

The latter. Okina is only indirectly responsible for HSiFS by having Satono and Mai power up everyone, and the out-of-schedule seasons is just an unforeseen side effect of the power-up being applied to the fairies.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on September 22, 2017, 11:31:28 am
The latter. Okina is only indirectly responsible for HSiFS by having Satono and Mai power up everyone, and the out-of-schedule seasons is just an unforeseen side effect of the power-up being applied to the fairies.
She also have another objective to announce her presence to everyone in Gensokyo. So, yeah, the seasons thing is only indirectly her fault, but not unforeseen. She knows full well what she's doing.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on September 22, 2017, 03:33:28 pm
I'm no so much asking about the season incident and more about power over seasons themself. Her spell cards and talk about absorbing the player's seasonal energy is what makes me ask.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Suspicious person on September 22, 2017, 05:50:00 pm
Okina's ability is her power over backdoors : beside creating them, she can also move stuff through them, seasonal energies included. The season related attacks of hers make use of these seasonal energies in some way. Think of ULiL for example : the heroines get to use brand new occult attacks, kinda fueled by occult power : these seasonal attacks kinda go along these lines, save for the occult part.

But it's not exclusive to her : the heroines in HSiFS use and rely on seasonal energy as well (hence the peculiar aesthetics of shot types and bombs), but the heroines only get to use seasonal weaponry and powers thanks to the season door attached to them, and that door is hers : Okina can pump the seasonal energy that was gathered by the heroines on their way, and similarly to the heroines, Okina can also make use of those seasonal energies. So, regarding the abilities she get to display in stage 6, I'd say these season related attacks are pretty much the equivalent of occult attacks, but for seasons.

The thing is, that is only indicative of Okina being able to make use of seasonal energies, the same as everyone else, and that is regardless of any power over seasons (for example, the heroines can use seasonal energies as well despite not having some kind of season manipulating ability). So, does she have an ability to exert direct control over seasons or to manipulate them in some way ? That's incertain, but she definitely can influence it in some way through her power over lifeforce, delegated to Mai, when used in the same way it was used to cause the incident. There can also be some speculations regarding those suspicious, season colored energy tails that oozes from her even in the extra stage (where she doesn't even use seasons), although I doubt them having some kind of super important meaning.

Can she directly manipulate seasons ? That'd be a big, fat question mark, as far as I am concerned (probably not tbh, save for her lifeforce powers). But what is certain is that her fancy, colorful  attacks from stage 6 just derives from a clever use of her backdoor powers plus seasonal energy. At any rate, it'd be pretty safe to stay with what has been explicitly mentionned and just stick with her backdooring ability. Maybe some precisions will be brought when the next Strange CoOW come out.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Phasm on September 25, 2017, 06:58:39 pm
Wait a second... does this mean that Okina's ability is basically Yukari's ability ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on September 25, 2017, 09:04:44 pm
Wait a second... does this mean that Okina's ability is basically Yukari's ability ??? ??? ??? ???
Most characters' named abilities are just what they are best known for, or something particular for them anyway. It's just a fraction of what they can do.
In Okina's case, the only abilities we are supposed to care about, for now, are the door-creation one, and the abilities she gave to Mai and Satono to make everyone stronger, because those are the abilities driving HSiFS story. Also, since her role is to protect Gensokyo from the outside, an ability to pass through the barrier is basically mandatory. ZUN avoided Kasen having the same ability, but she can tear holes in it anyway (although Kasen doesn't seem to be a "guardian" like Yukari and Okina, especially given her personal opinions on Gensokyo as a whole).
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on September 26, 2017, 01:25:54 am
Kasen chanted a spell to open a hole in the barrier, it's likely some sort of passcode entrusted to her.

Also, Okina's ability has nothing to do with barriers, she can just create doors to her door-world. Not, like, the abstract concept of doors, but literal doors with frames and hinges. She can also manipulate lifeforce and spirit to some extend. People always think of Yukari in terms of warping things through gaps in space, but that's not really the core of her ability. Yukari has power over boundaries in a much more general sense; border of night and day, border of inside and outside, etc. Akyu describes the power to control boundaries as the power to create and destroy, in a metaphysical/philosophical sense.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on September 27, 2017, 06:35:25 am
Is there an explanation for her child-like look on CoLA?  Or is that simply the artist taking creative liberties?

A bit late, but IIRC, it was winter at that time, and she take that form to hibernate and conserve her energy.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on September 27, 2017, 06:49:12 am
That is complete speculation. She sleeps in the winter for reasons unknown. As I said, she looks childlike on the cover simply because that's how Genji Asai decided to draw her. Every other girl looks essentially the same.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Helepolis on September 27, 2017, 05:05:08 pm
Long in the past in one of the previous misc I had asked about Nitori's necklace which holds a key, but it was not answered afaik. So hereby another attempt.

Does anybody know what that key is?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on September 27, 2017, 07:06:30 pm
Probably her bag's key? At least one of her portraits shows the back of her backpack having a key hole. The other portraits show the key itself tied to the bag's straps and keeping them tighter rather than as a necklace, although that's probably irrilevant.
The hole is much bigger than the key, though, so maybe it isn't that. Do kappa have something to do with keys and locks?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on October 01, 2017, 04:29:48 am
TBH, it's not like Kappa have anything to do with crafting, either. (...except perhap the medicine thing...and the shirikodama thing (probably just hemorrhoids though)). Anyway, I questioned this in the main thread already, but here goes:

In IN (or is it?), it's implied that the reason nobody could complete her impossible task, is because she have them already. That beg the question though: ...How, exactly, does she obtained it in the first place? It's not like she got them after they gone into Gensokyo (plus the item wouldn't even get inside). It's also not part of her treasures while she's on the Moon (since these thing are Earth-based), and it's not like she would be special enough to gather help from the Moon for this. That mean, either she collect them herself (meaning Kaguya is a badass), or someone else, who's not part of the Moon (since,remember,Eirin couldn't risk going down there herself,or deploying the bunny ( though that could still doable, but that would be one heck of a stealth ops) to help her with trivial stuff like that), could do this feat ( meaning someone else is a badass)
Modify message
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on October 01, 2017, 04:59:57 am
TBH, it's not like Kappa have anything to do with crafting, either. 
Wat

Kappa is all about crafting. They build the Tengu's cameras and the Moriya shrine ropeway. , among other things. Or just look at Nitori's moves in the fighting games, they all include tools she's crafted.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on October 01, 2017, 03:15:52 pm
Perhaps Kaguya's impossible objects are more like manifestations of her requests instead of being the objects themselves, created with magic so that she could use them as danmaku.

Or maybe they are fakes.

Wat

Kappa is all about crafting. They build the Tengu's cameras and the Moriya shrine ropeway. , among other things. Or just look at Nitori's moves in the fighting games, they all include tools she's crafted.
They were reffering to the mythological kappa, not the touhou kappa.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on October 01, 2017, 04:50:16 pm
Marisa says in GoM that Kaguya always uses a lot of special items in her spells, never her power. She's jealous about some of them but not about others, too.

Edit: also ZUN's comments on her IN spells seem to talk about actual items.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on October 01, 2017, 06:26:24 pm
The tree of hourai is explained as a special type of Lunarian tree IIRC. It blooms when it comes in contact with large amounts of impurity. Her branch is just a branch from that.

For the fire rat's robe, in the original legend the suitor who was tasked with finding it was tricked. Someone gave him a shining robe which they claimed was made from the fire rat's fur, but when he gave it to Kaguya she threw it in a fire and it sizzled up. The suitor was ashamed and exiled himself. (Though in the version I read, Kaguya was actually impressed by his hard work and honesty and would have married him, but never got the chance because he ran off). In other words, the prince gave up so we don't know if it was truly impossible.

Something similar happened with the Buddha's bowl- the suitor lied and brought her an ordinary bowl without even looking.

The swallow's shell was a problem because swallows don't have shells (they're talking like turtle shells, not egg shells), but if it existed it would be an incredibly mundane and easy to obtain item. Given how touhou plays with the ideas of "exists" and "doesn't exist", it shouldn't actually be that hard to get in the touhouverse.

The only truly badass thing is the scale from the dragon's neck, as in legend pulling the scale off of a dragon's neck will make otherwise peaceful ones go berserk.

All that said, there are two things I'd like to point out. 1) Kaguya is a Lunarian. She's a rather weak one, but she still is one. Lunarians are confirmed to be ridiculously op. We already know she's a badass. Dragons are also said to be ridiculously op so I don't know where she falls in relation to them, but it's possible that she really is just so amazing that she pulled off all the requests herself.

2) The hourai branch means something different in touhou than it did in the original legend. In the legend, there was a mythical island called hourai (think Atlantis) that had magical trees. In touhou, the hourai branch is a branch from a tree that's fairly easy to obtain on the moon. Since the hourai branch is the only object that has a fleshed out history, it's possible that the other objects have similar alternate interpretations.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on October 01, 2017, 07:25:54 pm
Sorry for not explaining what I meant earlier, Andy. But my point was that none of the tasks were impossible. They were just really really hard.

But tracer already explained what I meant. So it doesn't really matter now. But I'd like to point out that she's friends with the SHINTO GOD OF KNOWLEDGE. Getting the treasures wouldn't be that hard.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on October 01, 2017, 07:40:29 pm
As I mentioned in the other thread too, even if some of the impossible requests might be ridiculously hard and dangerous, let's all take a moment to remember too that Kaguya is immortal.    Sure pulling a dragon's scale might make them go berserk, but then so what?  What would it do, kill her

And of course, her friendship with Eirin definitely also helps even more.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on October 02, 2017, 07:00:22 am
The tasks were impossible because Kaguya already had the items in questions. They would have to steal them from her to get them.

Edit: Speaking of the Touhou version. Also not canon.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Helepolis on October 02, 2017, 09:09:48 am
Probably her bag's key? At least one of her portraits shows the back of her backpack having a key hole. The other portraits show the key itself tied to the bag's straps and keeping them tighter rather than as a necklace, although that's probably irrilevant.
The hole is much bigger than the key, though, so maybe it isn't that. Do kappa have something to do with keys and locks?
That is kind of the thing. No matter how I look at it, the Key remains a mysterious thing which she only seem to carry. I cannot remember other Kappas in official drawn work carry a key like that.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Prime32 on October 02, 2017, 11:05:06 pm
They were reffering to the mythological kappa, not the touhou kappa.
IIRC, the kappa in Ryuunosuke Akutagawa's book had invented shirikodama-powered replicators.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on October 03, 2017, 03:19:37 am
About the impossible request:
1. She's a badass, that we know. But she isn't what we would called a warrior princess. And even if she is, asking the suitor to defeat her in mortal combat would have been much more expedient than convolutively collect those thing, to then asking the suitor again to collect those thing. Heck, even Eirin would have suggested secretly poisoning them than this (though, arguably, the evident for the later case would have been easier to hide...). The only way that would work,IMO, is that she like to collect thing as a hobby, see the suitor, then do the whole request thing.
2.And even if she personally collect them, it's not like all of them need strength. The Buddha bowl for example: where could you even find that, and isn't the requirement to obtain it would be to either get approval from the fucking Buddha in some way, or steal it beneath whoever is guarding it? (...though the later option is more doable). The same with the shell:she wouldn't suggest it in the first place, if the thing aren't ridiculously hard to find, even if they exist (possibly in a form of an elusive youkai). That's not to mention about some item like the single tree floor that she would need help to carry, or the red eye of aya.

Edit:...Forgot that she could carry the damn floorboard herself, if her spellcard is any indication.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Hello Purvis on October 03, 2017, 09:38:12 am
You ought to consider both who she is and when she was doing her thing. Does Kaguya really strike you as a "Punch 'em in the face" type? No, of course not, she's a traditional Heian noblewoman, and she's the type to fight her battles in a more subtle social sense because that's whats proper. And coming from an advanced and theoretically peaceful civilization (let's set aside rabbit soldiers and go with what they want to believe they are for now), she's almost certainly going to prize a more social solution. And what's an easy way to do that that doesn't involve dealing with suitors any longer than needs be? Send them on a snipe hunt.

It's an elegant solution that results in minimal social boat rocking and also ensures she doesn't have to worry about things going wrong. At least until the family pulling the Emperor's strings and filling most of the high positions in government stopped writing poetry in the imperial capital long enough to get involved.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on October 03, 2017, 03:49:58 pm
Again, I already said that she isn't the warrior type in the first place. What I ask is, of all the option, why chose the most convoluted one, in which she collected them herself so that then she could ask them to collect that for her (remember, it's said that the impossible request remain impossible, is because she already have them)? Even accounting for the norm at that times, it isn't rare for a case of "double poisoning" by a mysterious "third party", but miraculously, the princess survive. It would make her famous for being a disaster princess too, which would ensure that she would be left alone forever. It's not like either Eirin or even Kaguya herself is full of mercy. Again, all that I could think of is that this is pretty much just an add-on to her collecting hobby.

Edit:...sorry, this whole thing have become a mess. I guess the answer that "Kaguya is a badass" is good enough for now, as any further (like how she collect them), is pushing even more speculation onto a speculation.( ...I personally like the "Mission:Lunatic" stealth ops idea though)
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on October 03, 2017, 07:52:53 pm
I don't think there has to be much of a reason beyond "she dealt with them this way because she wanted to deal with them this way". Kaguya is pretty whimsical.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on October 04, 2017, 09:22:25 am
That would be fine, though that doesn't explain how does she get it in the first place. Well, these kind of thing would have fallen into fanfic idea, so hope that someone do it somedays.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on October 04, 2017, 01:10:55 pm
Maybe they were all stuff that she owned back when she was a lunarian princess, and she brought them with her when she was exiled. The hourai branch is canonically from the moon, so I don't see why the other ones couldn't be as well.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on October 06, 2017, 11:34:31 am
Because the other thing is strictly Earth-based, like the fire rat robe....I mean, how the hell would you even bring it on the moon, not to mention making it in there, considering the Lunarian strict "NO IMPURE" code.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on October 06, 2017, 03:02:08 pm
Not really? They are all mythological treasures that were held by or made from legendary figures. Honestly, they feel like exactly the kind of treasures the lunarians would have.

And besides, since the hourai branch went from "branch of a tree that only blooms every three thousand years" to "branch of a tree commonly found on the moon and used as a radar to detect impurity", I don't see why the other treasures couldn't also have different origins. Like, maybe the lunarians invented the fire rat robe and just named it after the mythological creature.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on October 06, 2017, 04:09:58 pm
It would be more likely that human would named it like that rather than the lunarian though. And mythological creature or not, doesn't they have to...you know, kill the goddamn thing first?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sagus on October 06, 2017, 06:39:49 pm
Gonna have to agree to disagree on that, don't really see why the names are more human-like than lunarian. Also, not really, since the origin for it I suggested would simply be a lunarian invention, not the actual pelt of the fire rat. It'd just have been named after it.

Anyway, this is a bit too speculative for this thread so I'm gonna drop this train of thought. Canon-wise, we just don't know how Kaguya got any of the treasures outside the hourai branch.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Hello Purvis on October 06, 2017, 08:56:50 pm
There never were impossible treasures to begin with! They are a Fujiwara conspiracy designed to misdirect from their failures! Wake up, sheeple!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on October 08, 2017, 10:40:42 am
Why do people say that ZUN "rebooted" Mamizou's character?
She was fleshed out. Not rebooted. Adding more to a character that doesn't contradict said characters previous appearances is just fleshing her out. Are people just butthurt that ZUN likes using her? The SDM never get this hate.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: shockdude on October 08, 2017, 04:49:49 pm
Is Sumireko still in high school? It's been 2 years.
Have there been hints as to what she'll be doing after she graduates?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PurpleXCompleX on October 08, 2017, 05:02:54 pm
Is Sumireko still in high school?

She should be. According to Curiosities of Lotus Asia Chapter 29: An Expert on the Occult, Sumireko still sleeps during her lessons in school.
Quote
"I was woken up earlier since it was time for lunch, but now my afternoon classes have started, I came back."
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on October 08, 2017, 10:03:48 pm
Technically that doesn't mean she isn't sleeping through college.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on October 08, 2017, 10:28:58 pm
Sumireko is currently in the last year of high school, in the second semester. I'm pretty eager to see if this is talked about at all in CoLA at the end of the month.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on October 14, 2017, 12:09:15 am
In fandom its fairly common for Mokou to be shown as using kicks primarily for physical attacks, usually using her fire powers to enhance the kick. This is now canon as of ULIL, but i'm wondering what started it in the first place? Was it just to show off those cool ass pants, or was it a reference to a fighting game character im unaware of, or something else entirely? Or was it just because it looked cool.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on October 14, 2017, 12:49:09 am
It's probably some combination of the fire, the pants, and her having her hands in her pockets that just lends well to it. Nicopedia doesn't seem to have anything on it for explicit references.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Fulisha of Light on October 27, 2017, 06:39:29 am
This is an unusual question that I'm not sure is exactly Touhou-related, but I was looking into Japanese names today for research stuff (mainly with how English names are written with the little dot in the middle) and I've noticed this:

So characters such as Patchouli and Letty have that dot in the middle of their Japanese names because their names are English and it shows where the next word begins and fairies such as Sunny Milk and Star Sapphire have English names as well, but I've noticed they don't have that dot in the middle of their Japanese names despite it being English. Why is that exactly?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on October 27, 2017, 07:41:02 am
Fairy names are one word even when they're two English words put together. They have no last names. It just so happens that they're inconsistently written in English and just kind of depend on what looks good I guess. See Clownpiece of course, but also "Sunnymilk", "Lunarchild", "Starsaphire" written in PMiSS (yet written differently in other sources). And then despite them having just one name, they still all shorten to nicknames anyways (Sunny, Luna, Star, Piece).
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on October 27, 2017, 08:22:17 am
This applies to Lilywhite and Eternitylarva too, by the way. It's consistent across all fairies.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on October 27, 2017, 08:42:09 am
Yes, I just didn't use those as examples because I can't recall if they've been written that way in any official capacity yet.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on October 30, 2017, 04:51:07 pm
When Reisen said that Reimu's "Match with no one, and clash with no one", what does it mean?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on October 31, 2017, 02:46:40 am
I don't recall the context of that, but it means she can get along with anyone, but not especially well. Neutral.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on October 31, 2017, 07:50:44 pm
I wanted to do some changes to Yorihime's wiki page. Can someone tell me who are lord Gion (Yorihime's sword being Gion's) and lord Enma (the wiki says Yory uses his power)? Also what's with "she doesn't summon shinto gods because lunarians don't follow them"? The gods she summons are clearly shinto, and the lunarians are themselves the shinto gods.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on November 01, 2017, 02:49:01 am
Saying "she draws from Enma instead of Shinto gods" is like two mistakes. She calls upon the gods on the Moon "rather than" the Earth's, meaning she channels the Amatsukami rather than the Kunitsukami that Reimu calls. Saying "Lunarians do not follow the Earth's gods" is technically correct I guess but it's more like they probably just avoid them. It isn't like they don't believe in them or something, Yorihime might even be able to call them if she wanted to. Meanwhile I can sort of recall them mentioning "the power of Enma-sama" somewhere but I really can't remember where to clarify.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on November 01, 2017, 03:09:29 am
This is secondhand knowledge so you should do your own research, but I recall someone telling me that she uses weird obscure names for otherwise famous gods.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on November 01, 2017, 04:31:40 am
I do indeed remember that exact discussion! But, it was quite a while ago and I have no records of it to refer back to. Gion-sama for example could actually refer to the Gion faith (祇園信仰) in which Susanoo is commonly worshiped, but I don't know enough to make informed statements. Shinto is already fuzzy and chaotic enough as it is. I would say a reasonable gimmick would be to namedrop Earthly gods worshiped at shrines that also or used to house the intended Heavenly gods, but many of the gods called by Yorihime are already in that class.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on November 01, 2017, 09:38:58 am
What is the chapter where Reimu temporary work as a Divinator, who give shockingly accurate wild guess? I remember it somewhere in WaHH or FS, but can't find the chapter.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: martelefort on November 01, 2017, 09:52:09 am
I think it's WaHH chapter 23.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on November 01, 2017, 02:21:40 pm
Now that we on the subject though...how does her Intuition work anyway? I have a hunch that it's more akin to her "reading" the nature, by flowing with it + her massive luck in the first place, and it's getting stronger (from not be able to guess the incident in PoFV, to fortune telling), with the same amount of focus (when disturbed, she can't guess thing right). It's also depend on her interpreptation, as in the case of Humaned Away, she get to the one person that knew it the best, but mistake it for the cause.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on November 03, 2017, 01:49:50 am
Why are some people calling Narumi Chinese?  Aren't jizou statues Japanese?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on November 03, 2017, 05:12:22 am
She isn't, but her dress and hair have a Chinese design so yeah.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on November 04, 2017, 03:46:57 am
She isn't, but her dress and hair have a Chinese design so yeah.
How does her design look Chinese?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on November 04, 2017, 05:13:12 am
I don't know. The stereotype seems to be that long curve-fitting one-piece dress looks like a cheongsam or something, even though it totally isn't.

The red bib thing is also a traditionally Japanese thing, as far as I'm aware.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on November 04, 2017, 09:41:12 am
Most westerners just can't tell the difference between Chinese, Japanese and Korean cultural elements, despite the very obvious differences between the three.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on November 04, 2017, 11:39:46 am
Most westerners just can't tell the difference between Chinese, Japanese and Korean cultural elements, despite the very obvious differences between the three.
Even worse, I've encountered one who couldn't tell the difference between Thai and Japanese people...
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: andykhang on November 05, 2017, 12:18:54 pm
In Moon War 2, Yukari is "trapped" by the nest that have been planted a thousand years ago, as the waxing and waning of the full moon let to that very specific moment, when the time is shorten enough that the Lunarian could capture the mastermind, who somehow chose to go to this specific moment and somehow unaware of the phasing of the moon despite planning the following millenia invading it.

...Sound stupid, isn't it? It's as if Yukari herself wanted to get capture herself, playing alone with the plan that somehow only work in that very specific full moon a thousand years later. That shown how ridiculously arrogant the Lunarian (and Eirin) is, thinking that the mastermind behind this would willingly get capture in this specific moment instead of, you know, just do it the following full moon (in fact, that's precisely what she done, infiltrating the Lunar Capital and get her spy out)

The question is: Does that mean Yukari actually take into account of Lunarian's arrogant, and planned the whole Moon War 1 so that she could successfully win in also this very specific moment? Is Yukari, perhap, using the very failure of the Great Lunar War, to plant arrogant into the very heart of the Lunarian, so that she could successfully exploited it?

...Yeah, sound improbable. Yukari probably just planted that so that she could go into the Lunar Capital whenever she pleased, and thousands year later, she just see Eirin being arrogant and decided to used this really stupid plan (relatively, still smart enough to know that the opponent would play along with the trap (sarcasm)) against her.

Still, that's some fking mind game Yukari does. Anyway, just wanted to point that out.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on November 09, 2017, 10:52:00 am
Is it completely incorrect to say that the series is inspired by Japanese animation?  I've seen people going crazy and getting mad every time the word "anime" is used to describe the series in any way...

Personally, I think they're exaggerating...
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 09, 2017, 12:22:27 pm
I think it's because ppl (usually trolls) often associate "Anime" with ideas like weeb shit, ecchi or Japan is being weird again, instead of the artstyle itself. It does not help that most modern Anime I've watched so far have at least one scene of fanservice per episode. That's why Touhou fans are immediately triggered whenever outsiders say that forbidden word.

To be fair, I don't know why instead of asking "what series/work is this?", people have to replace it with "Anime" when the former is clear by itself even when the work isn't an animation.

On the other hand, I don't think there is anything so embarassing associated with western animations that ppl would get triggered when Japanese ppl says "What Disney is this?" when asking about anything western-made.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on November 09, 2017, 02:18:54 pm
I think it's because ppl (usually trolls) often associate "Anime" with ideas like weeb shit, ecchi or Japan is being weird again, instead of the artstyle itself. It does not help that most modern Anime I've watched so far have at least one scene of fanservice per episode. That's why Touhou fans are immediately triggered whenever outsiders say that forbidden word.

To be fair, I don't know why instead of asking "what series/work is this?", people have to replace it with "Anime" when the former is clear by itself even when the work isn't an animation.

This, I believed, can be chalked down to most westerners believing that all Japanese media (that isn't a pictureless novel or live-action film/series) are anime.
Quote
On the other hand, I don't think there is anything so embarassing associated with western animations that ppl would get triggered when Japanese ppl says "What Disney is this?" when asking about anything western-made.

This might be just the fact that westerners are more prone to hypocrisy than Asians (hence this trope (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MajoredInWesternHypocrisy))
Also, there are galaxy-sized differences between Disney/Pixar animations and any other western animations. We Asians know whether we're looking at a Disney/Pixar animation or not, even if we've never seen an animation before.
Also, some non-Disney/Pixar western animations would do anything to give their audience a good laugh, including blatant violation of logic and common sense (looking at you here, Simpsons).
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on November 09, 2017, 04:38:59 pm
Does anyone know what is this about?
http://tohonetwork.doorblog.jp/archives/73102208.html
Is ZUN releasing something else, or is Google betraying me?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: N-Forza on November 10, 2017, 12:47:57 am
The article is just making note that ZUN is attending an indie/doujin game exhibition this Sunday and there might be an announcement of some sort, like when he showed off the exclusive ISC stage a few years ago. That part's just speculation, but he'll probably mention that himself today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on November 10, 2017, 08:17:54 am
Thanks!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on November 10, 2017, 12:23:00 pm
So about my question from before...  Are those people overreacting?  I mean when they hear Touhou and anime put together and going bats**** insane.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: martelefort on November 10, 2017, 01:02:44 pm
So about my question from before...  Are those people overreacting?  I mean when they hear Touhou and anime put together and going bats**** insane.

" huuh touhou is ours it's not this mainstream anime huuh we're hipsters " kind of thing i guess. Going insane and getting angry at someone asking if it's an anime is just plain stupid imo.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on November 11, 2017, 03:03:45 am
People are going insane because Touhou 16 is tagged as "anime" on Steam...
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on November 11, 2017, 05:45:43 am
and they're idiots and/or it's just meme outrage, because 99.9% of everything on steam tagged anime isn't itself anime either
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shadowlupus on November 11, 2017, 06:45:47 am
Never mind this one. People have answered the question in another site.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on November 11, 2017, 08:25:11 am
It isn't as though the interviews didn't happen, but it is basically a tabloid, so Aya's personal commentary is even less reliable than her commentary in her regular articles and should be kept in mind for context.

EDIT: ok lol
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Goomba98 on December 05, 2017, 10:21:20 pm
Where has ZUN officially confirmed that the characters returning from the PC-98 era are the same people? xJeePx remembers reading that but can't remember the source.

Also, can anybody specifically name some of the redesigns that they mentioned in this PM quote:
Quote
First of all, all of these characters have the same names and the same looks. Sure, there are some examples like Reimu's hair color change, but her hair color was made purple on purpose, considering the color limitaions of the PC-98 (not to mention, Marisa had red hair in SoEW, and starting with PoDD, has blonde hair to this day). It's just simple redesign, which a lot of characters got through both PC-98 and Windows games, and the manga.
as well as some personality changes that happened in the middle of those eras? I can name Marisa having blue clothes in SA and HM/ULiL, and Nitori turning from shy to mean in the span of a few games, but are there any others?

(All this is because I'm trying to convince someone on another site that the PC-98 games are canon, by the way. I'm not doubting this info I'm posting, I'd just like some elaboration.)
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on December 05, 2017, 10:50:10 pm
Similarly, i'd like to see where he said there was a clean sweep from pc-98.
I know where he said you can ignore pc98 like you can ignore derivative works, but i personally never found the clean sweep part.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Goomba98 on December 05, 2017, 11:07:25 pm
Similarly, i'd like to see where he said there was a clean sweep from pc-98.
He probably never did, since his statements in recent interviews like AWA 2013 contradict that "clean sweep" thing. Unless it's like how Nintendo changed their story on the Koopalings being Bowser's biological children, and decided they weren't.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on December 06, 2017, 03:19:19 am
I believe the most recent thing he's said on the subject was his commentary on Yuuka's profile (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Yuuka_Kazami) in Strange Creators volume 3. He idly wonders if he could get away with bringing back even more PC-98 characters now, but seems to treat them as if they exist but are retired.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on December 06, 2017, 10:03:13 am
BBS posts. These are from a series of posts between PCB's trial and full version.

>Q.「アリス」は紅魔郷以前の東方シリーズに登場していたキャラなのですか?
  A.アリスは東方怪綺談(シリーズ第5弾)でも3面ボスでした。
    特に関連性は無いし、思いっきり別人です(^^;ので気にしなくても大丈夫ですよ。

Q: Is Alice a character from the pre-EoSD Touhou series?
A: Alice is the 3rd stage boss from Mystic Square (the 5th game).
   They aren't particularly related; you can completely think of them as different people, so don't worry about it.

> Q.「アリス」は怪奇談のアリスと本当に関係ないんですか?
   A.一応、同一人物ですが、ストーリー的には一切関係ありません。
    妖々夢のストーリー的にも、まるで重要な位置にいません。
    (というか妖々夢体験版に出てくるキャラは、全員ストーリーに無関係です(笑))

Q: Alice really doesn't have any connection to Mystic Square's Alice?
A: More or less they are the same character, but story-wise they are completely unrelated.
   She doesn't play any important role in PCB's story either.
   (Or rather, none of the characters that appear in the trial have anything to do with the story lol)

> Q.「幻想郷」旧作を知らないのですが、霊夢とアリスの過去になにが・・・?
  A.基本的に、ストーリーに関係するキャラは全て紅魔郷以降になります。
    一応、紅魔郷から全体の設定を一掃したので、新シリーズみたいなもんだと
    思っていただけると(^^;

Q: I haven't played the old works, but was there something with Reimu and Alice in the past?
A: Basically, all of the story-relevant characters have become the ones from EoSD and on.
   More or less, since EoSD the entire setting has been swept clean, so if you could, please think of it like a new series.


Note that despite using the wording "same character" and "story-wise" above, it should be made clear that he's saying Windows Alice and PC-98 Alice are not the same person, but are conceptually the same character. He is reusing the template of Alice as this character, so while they are both conceptually "Alice", she is not tangibly related to the Alice you see in MS. ZUN uses the word "story" a lot here to talk about what we might talk of as worldbuilding, because at the time ZUN wasn't really thinking much about worldbuilding but rather splitting things into basically "story" and "filler"; only later on going back to take these elements and fold them back into the bigger picture.


He probably never did, since his statements in recent interviews like AWA 2013 contradict that "clean sweep" thing.
No it doesn't. He stated the same methodology he's been working under since forever.

Q: Is PC-98 canon?
A: The world theyíre set in is the same. However, when I first started making Touhou, I didnít think I would keep making new games as long as I did, so Iím aware there may be some contradictions. In those cases, please take the latest games as more correct.


You're going to run into major roadblocks without some seriously intense confirmation bias, if your goal is to show that PC-98 is "canon", whatever you actually mean by that.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on December 06, 2017, 11:22:35 am
Thanks. Finally found it on the wiki. Turns out searching "swept clean" and "clean sweep" didn't work because it was translated as "clean state".
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Goomba98 on December 06, 2017, 11:33:50 am
Maybe you should tell xJeePx about that. He's the guy that made the PC-98 Touhou English patches, and he included a few images about why he thinks they are canon. He actually told me he remembered hearing something from ZUN about the PC-98 and Windows characters being the same. Is he just misremembering?

Someone on deviantArt made a comic about it too. (https://fullhitpoints.deviantart.com/art/PC-98-Isn-t-Canon-592737730) Is he being confirmation-biased too?

(I can settle with using the term "ambiguously canon", by the way. That's what the Zelda Wiki uses for games like the BS-X games and the Tingle spinoffs.)
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: CyberAngel on December 06, 2017, 12:50:38 pm
The author of that comic doesn't know what a homage is, it seems.

It's best to treat PC-98 stuff as a separate canon in a vaguely similar setting. Compare it to what's going on in Castlevania series - both older games and Lord of Shadow continuity have characters like Dracula, Simon Belmont and a few others, and even some events kinda overlap. But the two canons are not actually connected to each other despite that.

Now, Touhou has never been outright rebooted, but the way ZUN has been treating PC-98 stuff as a whole shows that it might have as well been. There is an obvious rift between the two canons, and denying it by bootstrapping the two together is a fool's errand.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on December 06, 2017, 04:31:30 pm
(I can settle with using the term "ambiguously canon", by the way. That's what the Zelda Wiki uses for games like the BS-X games and the Tingle spinoffs.)
Yeah, I think that's the best term to describe the PC-98 games. Nothing outright says they're not canon, but later installments pretty much pretend they don't exist and they're utterly unimportant to current Gensokyo.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Prime32 on December 06, 2017, 09:32:30 pm
I can name Marisa having blue clothes in SA and HM/ULiL, and Nitori turning from shy to mean in the span of a few games, but are there any others?
On the first of these, Marisa owns more than one set of clothes. WaHH has her wear a different variant of "witch outfit" in almost every chapter.

For the second: In her very first appearance Nitori sucks up to Reimu and Marisa (which they even call her out on), tries to trick them into getting rid of Kanako for her, and if they can't help she switches abruptly from praising humans to insulting them. Then in one of Marisa's endings (after the kappa have realised they can benefit from Kanako) she denies ever helping Marisa, saying she "forced her way in", while also acting like Marisa is ungrateful for her help.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on December 07, 2017, 01:57:48 am
Almost every character has a slightly different outfit every time they show up. The most obvious to the fandom would be Yukari's change between PCB and IN, but basically ZUN almost never draws the exact same outfit twice. Even Yuyuko's kimono changes patterns every time she appears.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Sophilia on December 07, 2017, 04:19:20 am
As ZUN says, in case of contradiction, you take the new material.  It only makes sense.  That still leaves a lot of things not only standing, but referred back to, though.  From dialogue, Alice is still Alice, and Yuuka is still Yuuka.  Rinnosuke even talks about Mima.

Though there are certainly things I can say were wiped away.  Kurumi and Elis no longer exist because of the Scarlet Mansion's plotline.  And PoDD is probably entirely excised, which is a shame because those characters were fun.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on December 10, 2017, 04:28:42 pm
Thinking about it, Sagume's plan to transfer the Lunar Capital in TH15 was meant to work due to rumors eventually making it materialize in Gensokyo.
Since the urban legends are still going on, how can Sagume be sure that the whole city doesn't get suddenly forced in Gensokyo with everyone in it?
Or would it just create a second Lunar Capital with no one inside?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on December 11, 2017, 07:32:05 am
Thinking about it, Sagume's plan to transfer the Lunar Capital in TH15 was meant to work due to rumors eventually making it materialize in Gensokyo.
Since the urban legends are still going on, how can Sagume be sure that the whole city doesn't get suddenly forced in Gensokyo with everyone in it?
Or would it just create a second Lunar Capital with no one inside?

They're kind of vague about how exactly this works, but the entire Urban Legend incident is derived from Sagume's own power. It's an application of her ability to change the truth with words. So presumably she has some control of it. It was also implied that she would have been responsible for "pulling the trigger" when the Lunar Capital was ready to move, so what was going on in ULiL was merely a preliminary set-up.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on December 17, 2017, 04:03:25 am
Why is Nazrin listed with a higher threat level than Shou in SOPM?

Is this a power ranking? Or is it just saying Nazrin would be a worse threat to a human than Shou (being friendly to humans) would.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on December 17, 2017, 04:16:18 am
The Danger levels in PMiSS and SoPM refer to things like passive dangers, potential accidents, consequences of retaliation/offense, etc. Take for example Yuyuko, Suika, and Hina, who have High/Medium friendship levels but are Very High dangers. Hina in particular isn't "powerful" but can still have extreme effects on humans.

As far as Shou and Nazrin go, nothing about Shou is really dangerous at all. She barely even retains her original nature and isn't a violent person even incidentally. Meanwhile Nazrin is at least somewhat dangerous due to her mice and general disposition, I would guess.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on December 18, 2017, 04:38:07 am
The short answer is that they're not power levels. It's just literally how dangerous they are for an average human to meet, in Akyuu's opinion.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on December 18, 2017, 07:59:07 am
That's what i thought, Shou is a avatar of a popular Buddhist/Hindu deity who would is fine with humans. Unlikely she would cause harm to humans very much.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Prime32 on December 26, 2017, 07:19:13 pm
Are there any fanworks featuring the Night Parade demon from Forbidden Scrollery? It seems like prime material for final boss of a fangame, particularly since its ability to absorb tsukumogami lets you scale it up in power by having it absorb Kokoro/the Miracle Mallet/etc.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Hello Purvis on January 15, 2018, 12:24:06 pm
Here's a question: Who made this song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLSRIg_Q408)?

It is neat. =[
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: N-Forza on January 15, 2018, 12:45:43 pm
Shows the credits at the very end: 平茸 (Hiratake) from the circle Aftergrow. Doesn't seem terribly active as of late, though.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Hello Purvis on January 15, 2018, 01:19:20 pm
Well that shows what I get for not watching the whole thing. I'm a spoiled baby and used to all that data being in the description. =[

Thanks Forza!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on January 19, 2018, 04:21:25 am
Is there any canonical source that states the Human Village as being build by Youkai Hunters?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on January 19, 2018, 06:34:38 am
The closest thing is probably PCB's prologue talking about humans that settled in Gensokyo to fight youkai. But as I tend to say about it, and is the case here, PCB's prologue is a terrible source of information due to being written before any of the setting we think of today was established, and contradicting the modern setting in many places.

That being said, that doesn't mean it's wrong, and it's pretty easy to see this being the case. It only makes sense that a secluded and dangerous area like Gensokyo wouldn't have humans settle there just incidentally, and the fact that youkai extermination is a tradition implies that it's been commonplace in Gensokyo for quite a while even if now there's barely anyone doing it.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Tsukishiro on January 23, 2018, 02:09:35 am
I probably just have a hard time understanding the mechanics of her power, but I feel compelled to ask anyway.

If she can reverse a situation with her words, why couldn't she just meet with some other upper-ranking Lunarians and say "The Lunar Capital is doomed" or something similar to reverse the situation in LoLK? It makes more sense than staking on a gamble with the heroines.
Maybe all the invading fairies would spontaneously die of heart attacks if she did? If that's beyond the scope of her ability, then it's description should be "reversing a situation with her words within realistic expectations."

I know it's not that the opposite of whatever she says will happen, but I can't really  tell the difference.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on January 23, 2018, 05:10:59 am
First of all, she can't know for sure that the Lunar Capital would be doomed under the regular flow of events, so if it wasn't actually doomed, then she could cause it accidentally. More importantly though she would have no control over how exactly the situation is reversed nor what about it is. Her power is always a game of probabilities which is why it's finicky. The invading fairies probably couldn't just die of heart attacks because that isn't very likely to happen. You have to ask, what are likely scenarios that could happen, assuming that some part of what she's talking about is the pivot that is reversed? It isn't necessarily about "realistic" expectations, since the situation being reversed can be what would normally be the most obvious outcome and anything but that could be seen as unrealistic.

For example, Sagume could enter a lottery and say "I will win the lottery" (or "I will lose the lottery", etc). Naively, one might think this means she would win the lottery because normally she would lose, but reality isn't just simple yes-no logic. Is it more likely that she would win the grand prize lottery, or that she would win smaller prizes? Or if the lottery is just one take-all prize, is it more likely that she would win the lottery, or that some other sequence of events would occur around the lottery or her life that still prevents her from winning (for example, losing the ticket or forgetting to check it, that normally she wouldn't)? Plus, how would reality need to contort itself to accommodate her winning, especially if the ticket she gets is only from a select bunch in the store she buys from, or the winning numbers are determined beforehand, and what are the likelihoods of these things happening? It's difficult to predict.

How this plays out in LoLK is that they're already this far into the Lunar Capital's plan, and the protagonist was already being sent there by Eirin to stop the plan / save the Capital, that it made sense to Sagume that the most likely outcome of the reversal is that the protagonist would defeat Junko, which they were already set to do. The only things that her ability might have actually affected were the protagonist's actual chance of winning the fight, because it makes sense that it might only take small tweaks to reality, if any, to get them to win against her, and thereby save the Capital and stop the moving plan. So in her eyes, that was the most probable scenario that would occur once she would reverse the current situation.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Polaris on January 23, 2018, 06:04:05 am
In particular, I'd say if you look closely at Sagume's dialogue, you can see she's pretty specific about only reversing the situation regarding the relocation plan. (It's a little ambiguous, but she never talks about the invasion of the capital with any explicit details and talks about it only in the context of the relocation plan, so I'm guessing that's all right.)

So I think before the player shows up, Sagume knows that the relocation plan will definitely succeed, but she's not completely sure about how the capital invasion is going.

After the player shows up, Sagume speaks and makes it so that the relocation plan will definitely fail. She's still not sure about the capital invasion, but that's where the player comes in: Sagume is betting that her relocation plan fails as a result of the player stopping the capital invasion. (I guess this implies that there was the possibility of the relocation plan failing while the capital invasion succeeded.)
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TrueShadow on January 23, 2018, 11:38:45 am
Okay, there's the theory that Narumi is the one in "putting hats on stone statues" of Marisa's line in IN.

Is there any actual mention of this in canon? Or it's just fans connecting two different things?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on January 23, 2018, 11:47:18 am
Okay, there's the theory that Narumi is the one in "putting hats on stone statues" of Marisa's line in IN.

Is there any actual mention of this in canon? Or it's just fans connecting two different things?
ZUN commented "that foreshadowing finally pays off" in the HSiFS interview on SCoOW when they asked him the same exact thing. Not sure how serious it was meant to be, tho.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on January 23, 2018, 01:46:07 pm
The fact that she's a magician that specifically used to be a Jizou and specifically lives in the Forest of Magic was already a pretty big flag, since neither of those had to be the case. But yes he started that exchange by saying "someone put it [her hat] there" before the interviewer even mentioned it so I think that's as good of a confirmation as any.  For him to call it foreshadowing is obviously a joke though.


Speaking of, do we know who the SCoOW interviewer is yet? I can't find anything on the staff list in the magazine.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Electroll on February 02, 2018, 04:53:23 pm
Anyone knows what flower is the flower on youmu's sword based on?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on February 06, 2018, 11:03:57 pm
Are people who think Nue is an alien serious or not?  The last time I've checked, she's native to Earth.  The Eientei folks except Tewi are the real aliens, but pretty much nobody in the fandom sees them as such...
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on February 07, 2018, 02:02:00 am
Are people who think Nue is an alien serious or not?
either no, or they're beyond help
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on February 07, 2018, 09:22:39 am
Why do people say Byakuren and Jesus are similar again?  Is it simply because they both are nice and kind and were persecuted for their beliefs?  Those alone aren't enough.  Jesus was willing to die for other people's sins, but Byakuren is so afraid of death and aging that she basically turned herself into a monster/demon to avoid such.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on February 07, 2018, 06:51:23 pm
It's just a goofy meme, not a serious comparison. And comparing Magician Youkai to Demons isn't really logical since Demons are canonically a thing seperate from other Youkai in Touhou.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on February 07, 2018, 10:44:31 pm
I use the two terms interchangeably.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on February 08, 2018, 05:54:41 pm
Is it right to translate Yukari's "Boundary of Intellect and Feet" description

置線状に境界を走らせ、そこに存在する物を分断する。威力重視技。全てに境界を引けると言う事は二つに分けられぬ物は無いと言う事である。

as

Yukari runs straight along the border, pulls high-powered objects from it and unleashes them upon the enemy. This just proves that you can always split something even smaller.

?

That's the current translation, but it sounds nothing like Yukari actually does during that move. Meanwhile google translates it as

Run the boundary in a plain line shape, and divide the existing objects. Power emphasis technique. To say that you can draw a boundary to everything is to say that there are no items that can not be divided into two.

Which seems much closer to what she is shown doing, i.e creates a straight boundary to split something, which is addressed in the final part of the description.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on February 08, 2018, 08:52:47 pm
Looking at the edit history, they aren't translations, they're descriptions written by whoever decided to do so back when the game came out. They were there even before the actual comments were added. I doubt any of them are accurate.

Also the template is broken.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shadowlupus on February 09, 2018, 01:12:16 am
PoFV dialogue, SWR and Soku skill/spell are filled with errors.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: N-Forza on February 09, 2018, 01:19:47 am
I tried to fix some of the SWR ones a while back but got sidetracked by life and forgot about it.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on February 09, 2018, 06:24:12 am
I might just go through them and wipe the info. A lot of these are worse than no translation.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on February 09, 2018, 11:46:25 am
PoFV dialogue, SWR and Soku skill/spell are filled with errors.
It's a pity since the spell and skill comments are some of the few things telling us what the heck they are actually doing during battles, and having them twisted isn't cool.

Also i fixed Soku's SC template, at least for translatable comments.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Jeremie on February 15, 2018, 07:51:12 am
Is there a specific date or an average time when Reitaisai participants are announced/confirmed? I browsed and searched the site and the best I could find was a post from last year that gave a link that had the list of participants.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: N-Forza on February 15, 2018, 08:20:17 am
They announced the results mid-March last year so it will probably be the same this year too.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on February 18, 2018, 02:34:50 pm
Did VFiS suddenly become monthly? I see thwiki.info marked Chapter 10 to be released 26 of February.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lebon14 on February 18, 2018, 08:03:39 pm
Did VFiS suddenly become monthly? I see thwiki.info marked Chapter 10 to be released 26 of February.

At the end of Chapter 9, it's explicit said "Continued next chapter, in April!" So, it's a mistake I'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on February 26, 2018, 09:07:53 pm
At the end of Chapter 9, it's explicit said "Continued next chapter, in April!" So, it's a mistake I'm pretty sure.
Well, the "April" issue of the magazine came out the 26 of February (today/tomorrow).
Hirasaka posted this on twitter:
https://twitter.com/hirasaka8/status/968060482660704258

Edit: Clarste confirmed it, also for next month. Good!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lebon14 on February 27, 2018, 04:48:01 am
Well, the "April" issue of the magazine came out the 26 of February (today/tomorrow).
Hirasaka posted this on twitter:
https://twitter.com/hirasaka8/status/968060482660704258

Edit: Clarste confirmed it, also for next month. Good!

Came to post to correct myself but I was too slow!
It's nice to see more of the same-face fairies again!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on March 02, 2018, 01:24:08 am
Why does Ichirin wield those two golden rings (other than the obvious usage as weapons)? Are they related to Buddhism in any way?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on March 02, 2018, 08:10:20 am
Either referring to the cycle of Samsara itself (輪廻) or the Dharmachakra (法輪), the latter I find more likely. Note this is also the "rin" in Ichirin.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on March 07, 2018, 07:47:39 pm
There seems to be recurring theme of circles and rings in UFO. Probably a reference to the wheel of dharma or something.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on March 08, 2018, 02:34:20 am
Note that Ichirin's whole existence is because ZUN wanted to include a Nyuudou (入道), which besides the youkai, refers to entering monkhood (from which the nyuudou gets its name), and/or achieving enlightenment. The imagery is everywhere.

Bonus note, he is a cloud because cumulonimbus clouds are colloquially called nyuudoukumo (入道雲). Nyuudou being clouds isn't a regular thing.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Alta on March 10, 2018, 09:35:57 pm
Not sure if this is the thread for this sort of question since I'm new, but after reading the rules and stuff, this seems to be the best place?

So I was trying to look for Eastern Starlight Romance because I just found out about it today. The main site (http://dsd.faceroll.net/ (http://dsd.faceroll.net/)) is down and the last time it was archived on archive.org was September 2017; maybe the site disappeared shortly after.  There's a 2010-2011 MotK thread about Demo 2 being released, with defunct download links, and a 2016 Reddit thread directing to the not functional website.

Does anybody know what happened to the project, and if there's any way I can get + play it?

Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: niektory on March 11, 2018, 10:12:06 am
I don't know what happened to them, but here's a link to the latest demo:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170921185833if_/http://dsd.faceroll.net/downloads/ESR-Demo3.0-all.zip
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Alta on March 11, 2018, 11:10:42 pm
It works! Thanks so much.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: niektory on March 17, 2018, 03:32:11 pm
Why is using vpatch usually not considered cheating?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on March 18, 2018, 07:24:32 am
On some older computers the input lag seen on newer computers with the older games doesn't exist, so vpatch is seen as evening the playing field. That being said, even newer games seem to all have an inherent 1-frame input lag on any setup, so in these cases vpatch to remove it would be giving yourself an unnatural advantage. Royalflare discourages submissions using vpatch even though there's no way they could tell, so it isn't as though it's entirely seen as acceptable. For that matter, calling it cheating or an advantage only makes sense in the context of a competition anyways. That aside, removing any and all input lag seems like it would be the ideal conditions of play regardless (i.e. the developer didn't intend for there to be input lag) so some may argue that it shouldn't be framed as "having advantages over others" to begin with.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: niektory on March 26, 2018, 04:41:01 pm
Not sure if this is the thread for this sort of question since I'm new, but after reading the rules and stuff, this seems to be the best place?

So I was trying to look for Eastern Starlight Romance because I just found out about it today. The main site (http://dsd.faceroll.net/ (http://dsd.faceroll.net/)) is down and the last time it was archived on archive.org was September 2017; maybe the site disappeared shortly after.  There's a 2010-2011 MotK thread about Demo 2 being released, with defunct download links, and a 2016 Reddit thread directing to the not functional website.

Does anybody know what happened to the project, and if there's any way I can get + play it?
The site is back up and they posted an update (http://dsd.faceroll.net/?p=761&cpage=2#comment-1877):
Quote
SleepKirby says:   
March 22, 2018 at 10:26 pm   

Oh, uh, hi. I guess one of us should turn on proper notifications for these blog comments again, huh?

It probably would be a good idea for us to make a new post here too. But Iíll want to discuss with the others first. For now, quick notes:

- Yes, faceroll.net was down for a couple of weeks from the beginning of March. I was uneasy too, but I asked Iced and he got word from Sigma that it was a planned downtime. It did go longer than planned, though, because they had some network config troubles. If you see any nginx warning messages on the blog, thatís probably related to server/network changes as well.

- Graph is still around on and off too. He was doing some editing, effects and art in 2017.

- I didnít get around to doing much at all last year, but this year I intend to change that. Iíve entered 5 new days into Renpy code, and currently working on 3 more.

- The Renpy coding is still a good way behind the writing in terms of story progress, so even though the writers are busy, I can keep going for a little while. Eventually though, writing will be the bottleneck, so weíll see what can be done there.

Hope to have a better update for you all soon. I think itís really cool that people are still checking on ESRís status (very sorry for the complete radio silence here, though!), and Iím certainly feeling motivated to keep my current momentum thanks to your support.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on March 27, 2018, 09:45:45 am
Not sure if the question qualifies, but I suppose I should post it here anyway.

I could be wrong, but we used to have a thread here in the forums on updates and news about ZUN, right?  It'd translate some of his more important tweets, appearances and quote things he'd say in interviews and all.  I wonder if that thread could be revived sometime, it'd be nice - as a non-japanese speaker - to know what he's up to.  Plus, I remember he'd give slight hints he was developing a game (that later turned out ot be HSiFS), so early-signs of a new release are always nice!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on March 27, 2018, 10:47:05 am
He hasn't been nearly as active recently, mostly showing for Nikenme (which I like to pore over but don't always have time to) and not tweeting much besides these. I find it highly likely he's gotten comfortable working quietly, and is busy being a dad during 90% of the rest. I'll think about making one again the next time something pops up (note Nikenme is probably tomorrow in Japan).
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Shizzo on March 28, 2018, 06:59:05 am
Aw, that's totally understandable.  Being a dad is very important after all, and if I remember he's got his 2nd child now, right?  Either way, thank you very much for the answer Drake!  Let's hope he has some news soon!
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Kinedyme on May 07, 2018, 12:06:16 pm
When you encounter little fairies and other small fry during the stage portion of a Touhou game, are those fairies using spell cards too? Or are all their attacks non-spells?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: niektory on May 11, 2018, 10:46:10 am
I assume that if there's no spell card name on screen, it's not a spell card.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on May 12, 2018, 03:39:40 am
Anyone think the series is worthy to be considered the king of indie/doujin games?  At least in Japan?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on May 13, 2018, 04:51:53 am
I think Minecraft is more popular worldwide than Touhou.

Touhou can be the queen though....but it would be out of character for it to be married to minecraft.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2018, 06:00:55 am
Anyone think the series is worthy to be considered the king of indie/doujin games?  At least in Japan?

Depends on how you measure it, but I think Fate Stay Night is probably the most successful series that started as doujin and the series that gets the most doujins made based on it. That said, it went commercial a while ago so maybe it doesn't count anymore.

Just in terms of raw metrics, Touhou is like 3rd or 4th most popular at Comiket, last I checked.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on May 24, 2018, 12:14:51 am
So i was reading through IaMP profiles and noticed how Alice's says "She is a kind of so called humanoid youkai" (所謂、人妖のたぐいである。), and uses the same 人妖 that was then used in the infamous chapter of FS to describe those humans-turned youkai like the fortune-teller. Should it be changed to "She is a kind of so called jinyou"?
Would it mean Alice (and any human-turned-magician) is explicitly in the same "forbidden class" as the fortune-teller and we can remove that huge "what constitutes a jinyou" speculation thing from the jinyou page?

Edit: rephrasing.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on May 24, 2018, 02:14:26 am
It isn't forbidden for humans to become youkai, it's forbidden for villagers to become youkai. Humans from the vilkage and humans from the outside world (or anywhere else for that matter) have two completely different sets of rules they have to follow. Since we don't know how old Alice is (she could predate Gensokyo) or where she's from (PC98's canon is questionable) it's not too clear whether or not she's in the "forbidden class" or not. It's the same reason Byakuren didn't get a gohei to the head despite being a human turned youkai.

Though I don't know the answer to the other things you were asking.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on May 24, 2018, 02:15:10 am
I highly doubt ZUN thought about these (this) characters back then relating to what they mean for the balance of Gensokyo in the same way as he would now, and probably wouldn't have used the term 人妖 until recently (i.e., this development was made and introduced for FS). Remember that the human village barely even existed as a concept back in IaMP. This also means that what constitutes a jinyou is not helped at all by this.


Since we don't know how old Alice is (she could predate Gensokyo)
Alice is stated in PMiSS to be a fairly new Magician. Before this she was human, so she's likely not a whole lot older than she appears, if at all.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on May 25, 2018, 07:34:25 am
Just from her non-Japanese name I would assume that Alice was never a villager in the first place though.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on May 25, 2018, 09:50:37 am
I highly doubt ZUN thought about these (this) characters back then relating to what they mean for the balance of Gensokyo in the same way as he would now, and probably wouldn't have used the term 人妖 until recently (i.e., this development was made and introduced for FS). Remember that the human village barely even existed as a concept back in IaMP. This also means that what constitutes a jinyou is not helped at all by this.

Alice is stated in PMiSS to be a fairly new Magician. Before this she was human, so she's likely not a whole lot older than she appears, if at all.
Well, yes. But "jinyou" seems more the definition of a class of youkai than a crime thing, no? The same japanese term is also used in Remilia's PMiSS article (translated as half-human half-youkai this time), and the village was already a thing at that point, even without defined rules.
Maybe i shouldn't have called it a forbidden class (my point wasn't even about Alice breaking the balance), but by definition, with or without Gensokyo's rules, a human that becomes a youkai would still be a jinyou, even if they did it 1000 years ago in China and Reimu can't legally do shit about it.
What i am saying is that the rules coming later don't make magicians like Alice and Byakuren non-jinyou, just jinyou not subject to the rules.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on May 25, 2018, 11:05:50 am
Probably, but until further confirmation I think it'd be best not to explicitly assume that categorization as a matter of fact? I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to change "humanoid youkai" to "jinyou" when the intention wasn't obviously the same "jinyou" as we now see it, but the term as used in Remilia's article and Alice's blurb can both carry the implication of "human-turned-youkai", so sure, maybe you could say that it's more appropriate than the existing wording. I think I would need some extra opinions from the native side of the fandom.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Kinedyme on June 19, 2018, 08:38:09 am
I've read that after a kitsune with nine tails reaches 1000 years of age, they begin losing tails once more until they have four.
If this is true, then can one tell the difference between a four-tailed kitsune who is 300 years old and one who is 1000+ years old?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: CyberAngel on June 19, 2018, 09:10:56 am
Kitsune with nine tails also have their fur turn white or gold and it stays that way.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Suspicious person on June 22, 2018, 11:01:51 pm
Heya

So, once upon a time, me ears stumbled upon some rumors 'bout an "official" map of Gensokyo set to be shown off in one of the official magazines

Now, due to, uh, certain "reasons", I haven't exactly followed properly on this and can't confirm any fact pertaining to that, so I'd like to ask 1/if anyone's got relevant informations regarding that : is it a thing or just some random rumors ? The lack of updates despite the elapsed time is making me curious.

Also, speaking of facts I can't confirm, I've also heard that somewhere in that one stream that involves talks about properly getting Touhou to Steam, ZUN supposedly gave some kind of explanation about how Okina's ability works : 2/ is that a thing ? And if it is, can I haz some manner of summary about it ? cuz I'm not exactly the best when it comes to understanding spoken japanese language ...

Thanks in advance !
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Clarste on June 23, 2018, 05:38:34 am
There's no "official map" but the Strange Creators magazine last time had a new feature where the writer is examining clues from EoSD to form a diagram of Gensokyo (presumably the first part of a series). So far all they have is that there's a forest somewhere between the Hakurei Shrine and the Misty Lake. It's more like "Let's map Gensokyo together!"
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on June 23, 2018, 04:55:42 pm
So apparently, Sakuya has superhuman strength, because she's can carry something like this all by herself?
(https://i.redditmedia.com/mbrdZ1rTlPEJib_NOj6kIkO7Hvx3z3i4HZkiIWJkocM.png?s=6cedae8dc925367e29e19de34b9080d2)

Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on June 24, 2018, 12:22:35 am
I mean, it's kind of for comedic value. You could take that to mean something if you want.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: game2011 on June 24, 2018, 09:54:00 am
I mean, it's kind of for comedic value. You could take that to mean something if you want.
Reddit says there was another instance where she carried a giant catfish all the way to Heaven, which further proves her strength...  When did that happen?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on June 24, 2018, 12:39:27 pm
Kinda makes me wonder if there's any fan material that ever made a gag of her throwing around kriegsmessers like they were nothing because they're technically still "just" knives.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on June 24, 2018, 09:09:43 pm
Reddit says there was another instance where she carried a giant catfish all the way to Heaven, which further proves her strength...  When did that happen?
That's literally the same scene. That ending is a party they threw in Heaven. Sakuya says she caught the catfish on the mountain, and Alice retorts that there's no way she caught a catfish that large on the mountain and she must have brought it. Note how nobody questions this.

If you really needed an explanation, which you really don't, magic should probably be the first thing to look at...
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on August 28, 2018, 12:33:01 pm
Does anyone know anything about nine-tailed foxes starting to lose tails until they have four, and then become a "Tenko"?
That's what is written in Ran's wiki article, but wherever i look i only see stuff about nine-tailed foxes becoming golden/white when they are 1000 years old, getting some weird powers like omniscience, and being called Tenko. Nothing about losing tails.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on August 28, 2018, 11:36:59 pm
There's a bit of a problem in that there are a bunch of different mythologies surrounding foxes. In one you'll see around, there's a ranking of 野狐 (yako, common foxes)・気狐 (kiko)・空狐 (kuuko)・天狐 (tenko) where tenko have 9 tails and that's just it, and there isn't necessarily any other tail-specific stuff. In another you have where after 1000 years one becomes a tenko, with 9 tails, but after 3000 years they become a kuuko with 4 tails (i.e. kuuko higher than tenko instead), and if they became a god they wouldn't have any. Then in some cases it's tenko with 4 tails and kuuko with none. And then of course there's no real reason to adhere to any of these.

Honestly I think I'll remove this from the wiki page entirely because there's absolutely no basis to this within the series on top of the mythology being so varied. In fact, Akyuu sort of implies in Ran's PMiSS article that there wouldn't be anything beyond.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on September 25, 2018, 07:44:06 pm
This one isn't really a question about Canon. But I felt like asking it for an fanfic I hope to write someday.

Is there any way the idea of Impurity causing a Lunarian to die from old age could make sense? Obviously, simple exposer impurity wouldn't cause it, since Eirin and Kaguya seem to be doing just fine living on earth. But perhaps, if it was being built up over a long period of time, without the victim knowing ahead of time and doing nothing to dispel it, it could somehow cause them to die of natural causes? Is this even possible?

For the record, my idea is an ancient Lunarian noble dies from old age (or possibly in their sleep), and Yorihime has to figure out why it happened since their death could mean the moon is being tainted by impurity at a rate not ever seen before in its history. Will she solve it in time? I don't know yet.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: PK on September 25, 2018, 10:54:54 pm
Eirin and Kaguya are doing fine on Earth because they are Hourai immortals.
The Watatsuki and Sagume had no problems dealing with youkai and coming to Gensokyo though, so maybe brief exposure doesn't do much. Yorihime has a power to purify stuff too.

I'm also sure it was stated somewhere, probably in CiLR, that impurity is outright what makes everything age and die, and that Lunarians themselves don't actually have infinite lifespans because they aren't 100% pure, so the idea of a lunarian dying because of that isn't impossible. However, the Lunar Capital has those neat udonge plants that detect impurity, so it would be weird if they didn't notice an increase in impurity.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on September 26, 2018, 08:00:55 am
I remember it is mentioned elsewhere that there are some "Pure Lands" on Earth where there's little to no Impurities, so Lunarians can stroll around in them without contamination. Eientei seems to reside on top of one such "Pure Land".

Also, brief minimal exposure to Impurities probably won't affect Lunarians in any way, like how brief exposure to minute amounts of radiation won't harm us humans (if not, then the radiation our gadgets emit would've killed us all already).
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: TresserT on September 26, 2018, 05:40:48 pm
Eirin and Kaguya are practically bathing in impurity, they just don't care anymore. Kaguya being a limitless source of impurity is actually a plot point in one of the side works IIRC. They're immortal cause of the Hourai Elixir, not cause of their purity.

From the perspective of humans, impurity isn't a poison that slowly kills you or anything like that. It's just the very idea that you CAN die. It could be in a decade or 100 years or 10,000 years. To us, dying is natural so impurity is too. Lunarians think that complete immortality is the norm, and because of that they do see impurity as a sort of poison.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, a Lunarian exposed to impurity isn't going to die instantly or rapidly as if they were exposed to poison. It just means that they're now exposed to the process of dying that humans are exposed to since birth. They might now live for 1,000 years instead of 10,000. But they aren't going to suffer any massive immediate effects. Which is why the Watatsuki's and Sagume seem perfectly fine when exposed to impurity.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on September 26, 2018, 10:27:17 pm
That part of CiLR is actually the opposite; the udonge flowers in the presence of impurity but it still hasn't bloomed despite being years after IN, suggesting there's something else at play. In the past I think people wanted to attribute this to some kind of tangible effect, like Kaguya being a well of purity (which isn't a real concept), but I don't think that's the case at all anymore and curse my past self for poor reading comprehension.

Rather, the chapter overall is about the comparison of Kaguya to Eirin and Reisen, who have both moved on from the Moon and are now doing as the Earth people do. Kaguya on the other hand has not found a purpose for herself or motivation to participate in Earth society, and shelves her worries off to Eirin. The unblooming udonge bonsai is a metaphor for Kaguya, as just in the same way, she hasn't yet bloomed years after being in contact with the Earth. There are many passages in the chapter that allude to this both from the side of Kaguya and the side of the udonge, some of them more obvious than others. Kaguya even wonders why Eirin named Reisen "Udonge", and it's exactly because of what she speculates -- that Reisen would flourish once being touched by the Earth's impurity -- but she can't make that connection with herself. At the end of the chapter, Eirin challenges Kaguya to find something that she wants to do, and Kaguya ponders that perhaps something would happen once the udonge blooms, or rather, that it would bloom once she found that something for herself. Once you go into the chapter looking from this lens it becomes very clear.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on October 09, 2018, 08:51:21 pm
Good to know my weird story idea isn't completely implausible, but I will need to address these points within the fic itself if I ever write it.

On a different note: Why exactly does Marisa like Mushrooms so much? Is it just because there's a lot of it around where Marisa lives, and she just likes the taste of it? If there isn't a canonical answer, I wouldn't mind a speculative one.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: gilde on October 10, 2018, 02:44:33 am
On a different note: Why exactly does Marisa like Mushrooms so much? Is it just because there's a lot of it around where Marisa lives, and she just likes the taste of it? If there isn't a canonical answer, I wouldn't mind a speculative one.

PMiSS to the rescuuuue (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Marisa_Kirisame)

They're Magic Shrooms (TM) and idk if she actually eats them ever, she mostly turns 'em into soupcakes and then does science to them. boring, down-to-earth science, like "what happens if i get this wet, what happens if i burn it" kinda stuff
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: niektory on October 12, 2018, 11:07:43 pm
Why is this site called "Maidens of the Kaleidoscope"? Are kaleidoscopes related to Touhou in any way? Or is this just what naturally comes to mind when you look at danmaku?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on October 13, 2018, 12:32:33 am
Maidens of the Kaleidoscope is the name Katchura gave to the original site (http://web.archive.org/web/20040420122332/www.shrinemaiden.com/MKMain.htm), which was initially just a basic fansite. I assume "kaleidoscope" just refers to the colorful danmaku.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: the old guy on October 27, 2018, 07:55:40 am
PMiSS to the rescuuuue (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Marisa_Kirisame)

They're Magic Shrooms (TM) and idk if she actually eats them ever, she mostly turns 'em into soupcakes and then does science to them. boring, down-to-earth science, like "what happens if i get this wet, what happens if i burn it" kinda stuff

Sorry for late reply, but I feel really stupid for not just looking it up in PMISS!

That actually makes a lot of sense, Marisa is just a huge nerd about Mushrooms. Just like she is with the Stars, and Magic in general.

While I'm here, might as well ask 2 translation related questions:

1. Whenever Sakuya calls herself an "Atheist", what word is actually being used in Japanese? There has always been mass confusion over why Sakuya considers herself one when Gods clearly exist in Touhou. I've always wondered if the term in Japanese is actually some vague term that could also be translated as "Anti-theist" or something like that.

2. A long time ago, ZUN sent an e-mail to a fan detailing some info about Youki's backstory to a fan, You can read it here (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Personal_Memo_on_Youki). The thing I wonder, however, is what exactly is the fan site (http://web.archive.org/web/20040816085903/http://th-radio.hp.infoseek.co.jp:80/library/memo.html) it was published on for? If you press the little link on the bottom, it sents you to an area, which if google translate isn't lying to me, seems to be for fan fiction and fan music? Am I correct? All I can say if that is the case, is that I really, really wish I could read it. (Google Translate garbles it too much to be enjoyable)
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Drake on October 27, 2018, 11:14:33 am
1) She says 無神論者 which is pretty much literally "atheist". If we're talking specifically about the bit in WaHH 35, it's that Reimu says 神隠し which is both the word for spiriting away (which she means) and more literally "god hiding", hence why Reimu says she doesn't mean Amaterasu secluding herself in a cave (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amano-Iwato), but that doesn't come across the best in the translation. Sakuya is just making a joke here. And the other instance where she says she doesn't believe in gods, in IaMP, she's also just making a joke at Reimu's expense after she repeatedly asked her for donations (i.e. "I don't believe in gods, so I have no reason to make an offering"). I think taking her seriously in these cases as though she literally wouldn't believe gods exist despite living in Gensokyo is a tad silly; at most you could possibly take it to mean that she doesn't have faith in gods, which is a much more tangible concept.

2) It really is just some dude's fansite, there are short fics and silly AA art and made up song lyrics. By the sounds of it they were probably pretty young.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: CyberAngel on October 27, 2018, 01:02:30 pm
She probably calls herself an "atheist" in a sense that she doesn't bother to follow any religious teachings and wouldn't ask any gods for any kind of help.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on December 31, 2018, 03:29:39 pm
Need help finding the name of an English fangame that's been on the tip of my tongue for a while.

The scant few details I remember are;

-The game was meant to debut at a convention. I forgot if it was AWA or Anime Boston.

-Utsuho was a focus character in the game. She wore denim overalls.

-Nitori was also there.

-PC98 characters also had a focus, as I know Rikako was there as well.

Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: 7TC7 on March 02, 2019, 12:39:13 pm
Does anyone know if there have been any efforts made towards fixing Antimony of Common Flowers official English subtitles? I know there is the thcrap English patch for the game, but that one translates the actual textboxes and feels like a rush job, as all the text runs out of the speech bubbles.

If nobody has tried there hand at it, I'm wondering how difficult it would be to edit the subtitles.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: niektory on March 02, 2019, 06:10:13 pm
Does anyone know if there have been any efforts made towards fixing Antimony of Common Flowers official English subtitles? I know there is the thcrap English patch for the game, but that one translates the actual textboxes and feels like a rush job, as all the text runs out of the speech bubbles.

If nobody has tried there hand at it, I'm wondering how difficult it would be to edit the subtitles.
Here's the relevant thcrap issue:
[AoCF] Subtitles patching ∑ Issue #70 ∑ thpatch/thcrap (https://github.com/thpatch/thcrap/issues/70)
It seems to be on hold due to lack of manpower.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Jikan on March 03, 2019, 04:03:59 am
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but would anyone know of any good replacements for 'Create.swf'?
I'm wondering if there is any similar alternatives to the artwork it has, as I haven't had any success with getting 'Create.swf' to work.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Let There Be House on March 17, 2019, 01:03:00 pm
Here's something I don't quite understand: why is, near the end of FS, Mamizou trying to endear the villagers to tanuki? Endearment is the polar opposite of fear, the thing youkai need to continue existing, so why? Is it really true that they don't need fear specifically and simple belief will do, and Mamizou figured that out, or what? She mentions being able to "come and go as [they] please", so is it that she's tired of having to disguise herself while in the village? Of all the things in FS, that might be the thing that confuses me most.
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: Biakmon on August 04, 2019, 04:24:55 pm
- Anyone knows what happen to Touhou Fan Project Hifuu Activity Club Record?
Are they sill there or have they cancel it?
Title: Re: Miscellaneous Questions 7 - To Misc or not to Misc
Post by: niektory on November 15, 2019, 09:36:52 am
- Anyone knows what happen to Touhou Fan Project Hifuu Activity Club Record?
Are they sill there or have they cancel it?
Sorry for the late reply. According to this tweet (https://twitter.com/fantasytroupe/status/1173153290684485632) the third episode is in production, and seems to be about the EoSD cast.