Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Front Page Headlines => Topic started by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 01:24:39 pm

Title: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」 announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 01:24:39 pm
ZUN updated his blog today with some exciting news! (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/25711799/)

<Moriya> This post has been edited with Drake's translation.
EDITED by cuc:
The main title can be translated as "Eastern Jade Scepter of the Skies" or "Eastern Jade Ladle of the Skies".
Background info here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1334689.html#msg1334689).
New character (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1339730.html#msg1339730) on the demo CD.
(http://wx2.sinaimg.cn/mw690/be8f9ff3gy1ffajjwh8anj20l80bzq74.jpg)

---

It's been a while. The weather over here has suddenly gotten hotter.
On the last day of Golden Week (May 7), I will also be participating in Reitaisai.

The work I'll be presenting this time is below.

(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201704/20/42/e0088742_21470551.png)

Touhou Project 16th
 「東方天空璋 (Touhou Tenkuushou) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons.」

I'll be selling the trial version at Reitaisai (if I make it in time). The full version is planned for Summer Comiket.
Please speculate about the story from the screenshots. Doing a 180 from the last work, I'm going for a really light and refreshing feeling, I guess?

The protagonists this time are; Reimu Hakurei, Marisa Kirisame, Tanned Cirno, and Aya Shameimaru.
What kind of adventure is this even supposed to turn into, I wonder.

(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201704/20/42/e0088742_21533189.png)

(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201704/20/42/e0088742_21533377.png)

(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201704/20/42/e0088742_21533462.png)

(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201704/20/42/e0088742_21533632.png)

Something like this.
Right now I'm in crunch time, so the screenshots are highly likely to change, but it'll probably stay an STG.
I'd sure like to release the demo for Reitaisai.

This time I'd like to return to my roots with something that simply aims to make you feel good to play. No twists; the somewhat fabled "ordinary STG" might be the thing we need right now!

And with that, IT'S TENKUUSHOU-TIME!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Plubio on April 20, 2017, 01:26:47 pm
Screenshots (and blog text) also show playable Aya.
According to ZUN, he thinks the story this time has a more light, refreshing feeling (unlike previous works).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 20, 2017, 01:28:19 pm
Cirno had too much sun!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: HTFCirno2000 on April 20, 2017, 01:29:02 pm
Ya know, i'm extremely hyped for playable Cirno!

Also, seems like she finally grew back her bottom 2 wings, they were missing in DDC and ISC.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 20, 2017, 01:31:19 pm
Is this really Touhou 16? Or is it like a dot version which we had for Fairy Wars and such.

Never mind, I am mega dumb for not reading ZUN's message.

> Playable character:  Hakurei Reimu, Kirisame Marisa, Tanned Cirno, Shameimaru Aya.

I am now extremely curious for all that artwork.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 01:32:24 pm
ZUN refers to it using "16" in the blog post.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 20, 2017, 01:39:36 pm
Good thing I checked twitter before going to bed!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Arcorann on April 20, 2017, 01:39:43 pm
Key points from the post:

* Yes, it is Touhou 16. The trial will be released at Reitaisai (assuming it's ready by then) and the final will be at Summer Comiket. 天空 (tenkuu) translates to "sky", but I haven't been able to track down a meaning for 璋 (shou).
* Four playable characters: Reimu, Marisa, Tanned Cirno (yes, the post actually says that) and Aya.
* The game is described as a "return to the beginning" with a "simple feeling" according to Google Translate (an actual translation would be appreciated). The only indication of what the system might involve is the meter on the lower left of the screen.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zigzagwolf on April 20, 2017, 01:42:20 pm
This game looks interesting, can't wait to play it.

Also, tanned Cirno? I'm honestly giggling a bit here, this game looks really awesome and I'm already hyped up for it
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ZoomyTsugumi on April 20, 2017, 01:42:42 pm
The title screen screams a gore game to me oh my. This aesthetic is very pleasant but feels very unfamiliar to the series. Interested in where this goes.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 20, 2017, 01:50:44 pm
do you think each character has a season associated with them? Marisa is dressed in winter gear, but Cirno is tanned and has "SUMMER" in the background in one of the pictures... maybe Aya is autumn and Reimu is spring? i wonder what it means, assuming i'm correct... hmm...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: jhun on April 20, 2017, 01:56:26 pm
Brace yourselves on another round of "Mima is Back" lmao
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 20, 2017, 01:58:01 pm
Wow! I was not expecting such a quick tease of the game. I'm excited how this game gonna turn out!

The title screen is way too flashy imo, so it kinda looks like MS paint.

Is there gonna be a plot involved why Cirno is tanned? Was she cursed by Lily White? I can't wait to find out!

And don't forget the obligatory Mima is the hidden star.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 20, 2017, 02:01:39 pm
Now that I look, it seems that all four have a different symbol in the corner. Reimu has something pink (presumably cherry blossoms), Aya has a flower, Marisa has something blue (presumably a snowflake). I wonder if that'll have some gameplay aspect or if it's just aesthetic.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ToyoRai on April 20, 2017, 02:02:22 pm
Cirno being summer might be weird, but remember, the title is " Hidden Star in Four Seasons".

How more hidden can you be than an ice spirit during summer? :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 02:02:37 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/IxyrFeu.jpg)

* The game is described as a "return to the beginning" with a "simple feeling" according to Google Translate (an actual translation would be appreciated). The only indication of what the system might involve is the meter on the lower left of the screen.

(http://i.imgur.com/JuxXZot.jpg)

* Four playable characters: Reimu, Marisa, Tanned Cirno (yes, the post actually says that) and Aya.

(http://i.imgur.com/IKhM41C.jpg)

I had just started playing LoLK again, too, and was speculating to myself yesterday that the next game will likely be some "back to basics" angle. But I was really not expecting an announcement this soon. Holy moly!

And yes, given the "SUMMER" in the background of Cirno, I'm guessing each character has its own season. Aya will likely be autumn.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 20, 2017, 02:08:35 pm
WAIT I just realized I was right...

TD: PCB, DDC: EoSD, LoLK: IN, HSiFS: PoFV

Which means... No Mima this game, but TH17 will be a return to MS!!!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: binbinbake on April 20, 2017, 02:09:54 pm
Maybe ZUN wants to go back to the usual Shmup-system he used, so there might not be a Pointdevice Mode in this one...?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 02:10:22 pm
Sir Amat, do you happen to have the Smug Aya Face handy? I need it for reasons.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 20, 2017, 02:10:35 pm
It's been a while. The weather over here has suddenly gotten hotter.
On the last day of Golden Week (May 7), I will also be participating in Reitaisai.

The work I'll be presenting this time is below.
[]

Touhou Project 16th
 「東方天空璋 (Touhou Tenkuushou) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons.」

I'll be selling the trial version at Reitaisai (if I make it in time). The full version is planned for Summer Comiket.
Please speculate about the story from the screenshots. Doing a 180 from the last work, I'm going for a really light and refreshing feeling, I guess?

The protagonists this time are; Reimu Hakurei, Marisa Kirisame, Tanned Cirno, and Aya Shameimaru.
What kind of adventure is this even supposed to turn into, I wonder.

[]
[]
[]
[]

Something like this.
Right now I'm in crunch time, so the screenshots are highly likely to change, but it'll probably stay an STG.
I'd sure like to release the demo for Reitaisai.

This time I'd like to return to my roots with something that simply aims to make you feel good to play. No twists; the somewhat fabled "ordinary STG" might be the thing we need right now!

And with that, IT'S TENKUUSHOU-TIME!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 20, 2017, 02:13:01 pm
how am i supposed to go to bed now argh

Maybe ZUN wants to go back to the usual Shmup-system he used, so there might not be a Pointdevice Mode in this one...?
Pointdevice was explicitly a one-off for kicks. It probably won't happen again (at least in a main title).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Marron on April 20, 2017, 02:14:42 pm
I think that all characters represent a season, or at least it seems so if we look at the screenshots. From Reimu's shoot, I'll say that she represent spring, while Cirno seems like to be associated with summer.(sunflower) Marisa wearing a pear of gloves and a scarf obviously represents winter while I think Aya will be the autumn one.(Because the other three already show a season + Aya usually carries an autumn leaf)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: binbinbake on April 20, 2017, 02:15:01 pm
Something about Cirno bugs me and it's not the tan...  xD

If she really represents summer, then why would she wear a vine with flowers and a sunflower on her red ribbon?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 02:17:30 pm
Sir Amat, do you happen to have the Smug Aya Face handy? I need it for reasons.

I do, of course.

(http://i.imgur.com/9h3bYLl.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 20, 2017, 02:18:39 pm
hey, hey~

i was thinking about it, and it makes sense, so i guess i'll share it if thats alright !!

do you think this will be, story-wise, a "disconnect" like it used tew be back in the days of EoSD, PCB, etc, where the stories only happened consecutively but were not exactly directly correlated or caused by each other like with 10-15.5? after all, ZUN said hes gonna "return to basics" and that it is a 'fresh start'...!

plus, going from what we know of 15.5, i can't think of anything correlating for "perfect possession" with the four seasons... especially anything directly involving aya or tan-no (tanned cirno)... but then again, we don't know much of the story, but that's the conclusion i can draw from all of this so far!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 02:19:28 pm
I do, of course.

(http://i.imgur.com/9h3bYLl.png)

Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Marron on April 20, 2017, 02:20:04 pm
Isn't sunflower supposed to represent summer though ? While I agree that the vine with flowers bugs me too. It would have been fun if Marisa would carry that vine, it would be like a pc 98 reference, since Marisa used to "transform" her broom into a vine when she fought during SoEW and LLS.

Damn, it's beginning to look like a "Mima's back" thing but with Yuuka now, I mean, a fighting game about flowers, a shooter about the four seasons while Yuuka is known as the "flower master of four seasons"...what the hell ?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 20, 2017, 02:22:26 pm
Quote
Please speculate about the story from the screenshots. Doing a 180 from the last work, I'm going for a really light and refreshing feeling, I guess?

Why do I feel that this is completely not true and we're getting more of the same depressingly overly dragged out Sumireko/Lunarian plot?

But with 'going back to basics' didn't he say that before DDC?  And that was the complete lie.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: N-Forza on April 20, 2017, 02:22:39 pm
Marisa's complaining about how hot it is and either blaming someone for it or just venting.

It's extremely hard to read the text in the character select screenshot, but Cirno's title is probably "The Unmelting Ice Fairy of the Blazing Sky" but also phrased to imply that she is (naturally) the strongest.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Iced Fairy on April 20, 2017, 02:23:43 pm
At last.  With tanned Cirno I can play as a character who's danmaku skills match my own in a main storyline game.

Liking the idea of a return to an old style shmup as well, though it's been a while since I've had to collect lives or points the old fashioned way.  Gotta bust out PCB and get some practice in or something.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ☆ Kana ☆ on April 20, 2017, 02:24:13 pm
Whoa, didn't quite expect this kind of announcement, but on the other hand, I guess it's about time by now, huh?  :V

I find it kinda funny that Cirno of all characters seems to be associated with summer in this game, being an ice fairy and all...though thinking a bit more about it, her personality does seem quite appropriate for it~

do you think each character has a season associated with them? Marisa is dressed in winter gear, but Cirno is tanned and has "SUMMER" in the background in one of the pictures... maybe Aya is autumn and Reimu is spring? i wonder what it means, assuming i'm correct... hmm...

I can totally see Reimu being associated with spring, given it's in one of her theme titles. And with Marisa and Cirno getting winter and summer respectively, that leaves autumn for Aya, which makes perfect sense to me~  :D

(...Heh, and while typing this, I noticed that Cirno is apparently even referred to as "Tanned Cirno" in-game according to the screenshots. :V Well, that aside, it's nice to see ZUN experimenting with darker skintones~  :3)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 20, 2017, 02:25:26 pm
At last.  With tanned Cirno I can play as a character who's danmaku skills match my own in a main storyline game.

Liking the idea of a return to an old style shmup as well, though it's been a while since I've had to collect lives or points the old fashioned way.  Gotta bust out PCB and get some practice in or something.

I'm hoping for once he's actually telling the truth.  It might actually be going back to some awful gimmick based resource system. Again.  I mean he said he was doing that with DDC and well we saw how that turned out.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Marron on April 20, 2017, 02:27:22 pm
I'm hoping for once he's actually telling the truth.  It might actually be going back to some awful gimmick based resource system. Again.  I mean he said he was doing that with DDC and well we saw how that turned out.

True. I'm one of those waiting for the old fashioned system actually.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 02:28:07 pm
At last.  With tanned Cirno I can play as a character who's danmaku skills match my own in a main storyline game.

Liking the idea of a return to an old style shmup as well, though it's been a while since I've had to collect lives or points the old fashioned way.  Gotta bust out PCB and get some practice in or something.

Was thinking the same, actually. Only with EoSD or something.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 20, 2017, 02:35:06 pm
True. I'm one of those waiting for the old fashioned system actually.

It looks like we're not going back to the BlueChip setup sadly.  They've been utterly meaningless since Mountain of Faith... 

Bringing back being able to start with more than 3 lives would be great too.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 20, 2017, 02:35:35 pm
Yeah Cirno's title seems to be like "The Ice Fairy Unmelting Under Blazing Sun" lol
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 02:39:44 pm
Yeah Cirno's title seems to be like "The Ice Fairy Unmelting Under Blazing Sun" lol

She's dealt with successive summers, yet we've never seen her tan. What kind of summer are they dealing with in Gensokyo? Have all the seasons gone haywire?

STAY TUNED!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 02:41:14 pm
As someone else pointed out on a different site, this is clearly Alolan Cirno.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 02:42:30 pm
Deliberately calling her "Tanned Cirno"... could this be an alterego? Like Evil Jim to Earthworm Jim?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Quukii on April 20, 2017, 02:43:00 pm
Looks like there will be spell practice in the game, which is nice.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: N-Forza on April 20, 2017, 02:44:03 pm
Yeah Cirno's title seems to be like "The Ice Fairy Unmelting Under Blazing Sun" lol

...Cirno's title is probably "The Unmelting Ice Fairy of the Blazing Sky"

:colbert:
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 20, 2017, 02:45:44 pm
loldidn’tread


also can i mention the title screen font is super bad
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: HTFCirno2000 on April 20, 2017, 02:52:47 pm
loldidn’tread


also can i mention the title screen font is super bad

I think the font reminds me more of Generic 90s Style Computer-y Font or something like that.
Kinda funny ZUN uses that even though this game has nothing to do with computers. Or so we think...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 02:58:21 pm
The font works for how PC-98-y Reimu's title screen portrait looks.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ZM on April 20, 2017, 03:01:43 pm
Looking forward to decipher the scoring system of this one.

Also. Tanned Cirno is one of the greatest things to happen in the universe.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 03:04:20 pm
I'm feeling the font. Reminds me of some of the more clunky shmups I used to try out like 10 years ago. Love it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 20, 2017, 03:08:00 pm
Oh boy, a lot of people are going to rush for ZUN's booth this year. I know that quite a lot of MotK people are visiting.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ToyoRai on April 20, 2017, 03:14:09 pm
Deliberately calling her "Tanned Cirno"... could this be an alterego? Like Evil Jim to Earthworm Jim?
She has become Sunburned Sakura from Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on April 20, 2017, 03:16:51 pm
Welp, there goes that "human protagonists only in main games" trend! *evil laugh*

Cirno being able to get a tan solves so many metaphysical questions. Also...

Quote
sunflower

Cirno x Yuuka official couple, calling it now :)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suspicious person on April 20, 2017, 03:18:04 pm
Nearly had a heart attack from reading the announcement

I'm getting this solely for that tanned Cirno. Tanned Cirno already put this in front of all the previous games' playables
Also rip playable-characters-can-only-be-stage-5-boss-theory, we hardly knew ye

Quote
Aya
Recent works have been VERY Aya-centric as of late, not to mention the mangas' focus slightly shifting towards youkai mountain (not that I am complaining tho  :V) Can't wait to see what this is gonna bring about !

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 20, 2017, 03:21:04 pm
I've nothing to add to this. Just, yes. I just about had a heart attack myself. <3 I am so pleased and so anxious and so happy  :blush:
Ah, I'm looking forward to Cirno-things as well!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Mikuru on April 20, 2017, 03:23:52 pm
Cirno in summer is surely a balancing thing; she would be way overpowered if she could use her ice power in a game that wasn't designed around her being the only playable.

I wonder what Aya's shot-type will be like? Will she still have her camera power?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 20, 2017, 03:25:20 pm
Cirno in summer is surely a balancing thing; she would be way overpowered if she could use her ice power in a game that wasn't designed around her being the only playable.

I wonder what Aya's shot-type will be like? Will she still have her camera power?

From the screenshot it looks to be shooting those IN Youmu's Myon shots just like Reimu is.

Not sure if those are supposed to be placeholders or not.  Since usually we have no one really repeating a primary shot type projectile
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 20, 2017, 03:30:01 pm
So me and some people were staring at the screenshots and noticed some things...

Reimu and Marisa both seem to have their regular two options, as well as 3 extra options (note they're only at two power). Reimu's usual options are shooting cherry blossom-like things, while her extra options (what appear to be gaps) are shooting a forward focus type shot.

Reimu and Marisa both have yellow gauges in the lower left corner, while Aya has a blue one. The fact that Reimu and Marisa have different colors seems to imply that the color isn't character exclusive.

Maybe there's some sort of IN-like mechanic going on that changes your color from yellow to blue, with possibly additional colors?

All three also seem to have different symbols above their colored gauge. Oddly enough, Aya seems to have either a flower or a snowflake, despite seeming to represent Autumn (Reimu represents spring, Marisa's outfit shows she represents winter, Cirno is explicitly shown to represent Summer).

It's possible that the character's season can change depending on some mechanic, possibly the color gauge. As for what that season would do if that were true, it's still a total mystery.

As for some pure speculation, one guess is that the player has main options and a sub options, with the sub options changing what they do depending on your current season (which changes based on some gauge mechanic). Of course, that would definitely not be a "return to basics" or a simple mechanic of any sort.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 20, 2017, 03:42:00 pm
Welp, there goes that "human protagonists only in main games" trend! *evil laugh*
/me mumbles something along lines of Imperishable Night and Ten Desires
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 20, 2017, 03:44:58 pm
Nah, this is only a recent thing. Up until LoLK it was only humans. In IN the youkai were merely partners. Even in LoLK it's still arguably just humans. Reisen became an "honorary human" for various reasons, probably from spending so much time selling drugs in the human village (as shown in FS). For more proof, check the LoLK demo character profiles.

In fact, I bet Aya's being treated as a human in this game for the same reasons- she spends so much time with Kosuzu in the village, she's become an honorary human.

As for Cirno... Eiki *did* say Cirno was on the path to transforming from a fairy into a youkai. She just got things slightly wrong... Cirno wasn't turning into a youkai, she was turning into a human.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Monaco on April 20, 2017, 03:48:02 pm
I'm going for a really light and refreshing feeling, I guess?

This time I'd like to return to my roots with something that simply aims to make you feel good to play. No twists; the somewhat fabled "ordinary STG" might be the thing we need right now!

I wonder what these things will mean for the soundtrack. Will it be more reminiscent of the older games, perhaps?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 20, 2017, 03:49:53 pm
Nah, this is only a recent thing. Up until LoLK it was only humans. In IN the youkai were merely partners. Even in LoLK it's still arguably just humans. Reisen became an "honorary human" for various reasons, probably from spending so much time selling drugs in the human village (as shown in FS). For more proof, check the LoLK demo character profiles.
To be fair, that wasn't what CyberAngel's post mentioned. You're now just bending words to fit. The fact remains that there were Youkais, Vampires, Ghosts, Half humans/phantoms and ex lunar rabbits in the main games.

Edit:  Reminds me. Touhou 9 is just as hard a main game than any other release and it contains playable Youkais.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 20, 2017, 03:51:47 pm
That was a complete joke hehehe...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: not ZUNs wife on April 20, 2017, 03:52:17 pm
Very curious, as one should be. A main game is always huge news in terms of the aesthetic. Looks like this will be seen as a sharp contrast after LoLK's 20-year-anniversary bombastics.

I wonder if Dr. Latency and Dateless Bar are anything we can expect from the soundtrack.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 03:54:44 pm
I wonder what these things will mean for the soundtrack. Will it be more reminiscent of the older games, perhaps?

One can only hope. I love TD's soundtrack to death, but the musical quality of the chosen sound fonts has been declining since SA.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 20, 2017, 03:56:00 pm
As for some pure speculation, one guess is that the player has main options and a sub options, with the sub options changing what they do depending on your current season (which changes based on some gauge mechanic). Of course, that would definitely not be a "return to basics" or a simple mechanic of any sort.
This is what I was really worried about... 

Unless we're getting a Raiden style pick up powerups to choose shot type.  But I kinda don't know how to feel about it as Touhou and Raiden's core styles just are so different that doesn't make sense for the Genre as it'd bring back the UFO problem but even worse as with Raiden style games you pick up the other color and you're back to basic power IIRC.  Been ages since I've played one.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 20, 2017, 03:59:29 pm
One can only hope. I love TD's soundtrack to death, but the musical quality of the chosen sound fonts has been declining since SA.

you gotta be joking
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 20, 2017, 04:03:07 pm
I'm one of those anomalies that loved everything about TD and didn't like anything about DDC or LoLK (a few select songs aside). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ふねん1 on April 20, 2017, 04:07:45 pm
Wow a tease this early? I like what I'm seeing so far, especially the character choices. Yes we've had playable youkai plenty of times before, but it looks like any reasons for Aya and Alolan Cirno might be quite different from in the past. Why does Reitaisai feel so far away now aaaahhhhh...

And please give it a rest Zelinko, it's just a tease, let's rejoice that there's a Touhou 16 at all. :P
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: not ZUNs wife on April 20, 2017, 04:08:58 pm
The theme of this game also ties together a slight seasonal arc that's been going on throughout the main series games:

TH10 took place in autumn. (and this was a central theme)
TH11 took place in winter. (most visibly on the extra stage)
TH12 took place in spring.
TH13 took place in summer.
TH14 took place in autumn again, starting a new generation like TH10.
...Well, TH15 kind of broke the cycle though, since it doesn't have a coherent winter theme. But it does feel like the idea of seasons in gameplay has been brewing in ZUN's mind for a while.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 20, 2017, 04:11:09 pm
Wow a tease this early? I like what I'm seeing so far, especially the character choices. Yes we've had playable youkai plenty of times before, but it looks like any reasons for Aya and Alolan Cirno might be quite different from in the past. Why does Reitaisai feel so far away now aaaahhhhh...

And please give it a rest Zelinko, it's just a tease, let's rejoice that there's a Touhou 16 at all. :P

I'm just trying to get this out early so I can keep my aims low so if it's good it'll be even better.  If it's not... It won't be crushing to me.

I'm hoping this good but I don't want more heartbreak.  Last few games have just been heartbreak for me... 

Maybe going anti-hype for this will result in good things as I kinda had some for the last games and it backfired.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 04:20:17 pm
And please give it a rest Zelinko, it's just a tease, let's rejoice that there's a Touhou 16 at all. :P

Yeah seconded. I think we get it at this point.

I'm one of those anomalies that loved everything about TD and didn't like anything about DDC or LoLK (a few select songs aside). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TD arguably had a great soundtrack. But I also loved DDC's. Especially Sukuna's theme. LoLK wasn't bad, it's just not very memorable.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on April 20, 2017, 04:20:28 pm
To be fair, that wasn't what CyberAngel's post mentioned. You're now just bending words to fit. The fact remains that there were Youkais, Vampires, Ghosts, Half humans/phantoms and ex lunar rabbits in the main games.

No, TresserT's post illustrated just the thing I was referring to. The lengths some people go to in order to justify such silly ideas always baffled me.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 04:24:34 pm
Fans gonna fan theory I suppose. Though certainly, plenty of them could stand to have more consistency.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Spotty Len on April 20, 2017, 04:25:34 pm
I already screamed enough internally at work, so I can

I like ZUN's claim to go back to simpler mechanics, I'm not very fond of lots of gimmicks usually. That being said, I'm more excited about Aya and Alolan Cirno being playable in a main game, that should be fun.
It doesn't seem to have much of a link with Forbidden Scrollery, so I guess that will stay with AoCF.

Also pls, four seasons, flowers, stop taunting my heart with Yuuka.

Oh, yeah, Cirno being more powerful than the Sun. (http://i.imgur.com/xEgCycQ.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Hello Purvis on April 20, 2017, 04:29:34 pm
So it turns out the mythical summer youkai wasn't Yuuka after all.

Rappaya gonna have to redo Four Seasons House.


EDIT:

Hecatia: Clownpiece is a super strong faerie!
Cirno: ::Tans:: But can you master this technique?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Plubio on April 20, 2017, 04:47:53 pm
Wow a tease this early?

Just for reference, ZUN has always showed his next game two weeks before demo lunch.
This wasn't the case only on Impossible Spell Card, tho.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on April 20, 2017, 04:57:22 pm
Quote
I will also be participating in Reitaisai.

The work I'll be presenting this time is below.
Biggest nitpick, I'd translate the pronouns in the opening paragraphs as "we", since he's speaking formally on behalf of his circle, not his own person :D. He's also using the full name of Reitaisai here, which I tend to translate more properly as "Hakurei Shrine Regular Grand Festival" when possible.

The further translations I'm sure you all want!

Tanned Cirno's description:
Quote
灼熱の太陽が降り注ぐ、情熱的で熱気溢れる季節。
うだるような暑さと、全てを洗い流す夕立など
最も表情豊かな季節である。

The season of being poured upon by a scorching sun,
brimming with a zesty haze.
Bathed sometimes in seething heat, sometimes in evening showers,
this is the season with a most expressive face.

The normal difficulty is 夏の夕立級 "Summer Evening Shower Class".


The difficult word this time is 璋. Pronounced zhāng in mandarin Chinese, it is one of several types of ritual objects made with jade in ancient China - I'm talking about 4500BC to 200BC ancient.

You can see six of the most common such objects on this page (http://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%85%AD%E5%99%A8). Zhang is the second-to-last one, resembling a bladed weapon in shape. Among the six objects, zhang stands for the south and summer. Here's (http://www.christies.com/features/Archaic-jade-A-history-7014-1.aspx) an English version of the same info.

Both zhang and gui were probably used somewhat like scepters carried by courtiers in those ancient courts. While the associated rituals had long faded from the lives of the Chinese people, the words zhang and gui remained as symbols of moral uptightness, and are often used in people's names.


So if both zhang and Miko's shaku are ancient Chinese artifacts translated as "scepters", and their shapes are also similar, what is the difference? Well, the shaku was originally a less august object made with not-so-precious materials, used by courtiers to write down their memos on, but eventually turned into scepters of the Japanese court (you can still see the emperors and high priests of modern Japan holding them in ceremonies), while zhang has not seen use in more than two thousand years.

I hope this somewhat clears up things!

Trivia:
Probably not relevant to Touhou, zhang is also a symbol of giving birth to boys in old China:
Quote
Sons shall be born to him:
They will be put to sleep on couches;
They will be clothed in robes;
They will have zhang to play with;
Their cry will be loud.
They will be [hereafter] resplendent with red knee-covers,
The [future] king, the princes of the land.

Daughters shall be born to him:
They will be put to sleep on the ground;
They will be clothed with wrappers;
They will have ceramic [spinning wheels] to play with.
It will be theirs neither to do wrong nor to do good.
Only about the spirits and the food will they have to think,
And to cause no sorrow to their parents.

(Based on this translation (http://ctext.org/book-of-poetry/si-gan/ens))

Addenum:
Zhang can also be another ancient Chinese artifact: the handle of a jade ladle, used to pour a sacrificial wine on the ground. However these things are all too old for us to know how exactly they were used. For all we know, the handle and the scepter may be one and the same.

Itsuari (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/855376047444860928) further suggests this can potentially connect the story to a currently ongoing plot thread in Touhou: the Gensokyoan mythology of the Big Dipper as the ultimate youkai - a heavenly dragon, threatening to swallow the light of Polaris.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on April 20, 2017, 05:08:47 pm
Since when did tanned cirno had a desc?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 20, 2017, 05:46:03 pm
Sweet, Cirno playable in a main. Wasn't expecting that.

Hoping the new characters' designs will be nice, I found the TH14 ones generally bland (especially the non-demo characters) and I'm not fond at all of most TH15 designs except Sagume and to a lesser extent Junko.
Same thing with the music actually, found the TH14 soundtrack overall fairly boring aside from Sukuna's theme growing on me, although TH15's was overall better.

Most importantly though, I hope the gameplay will be fun! Cirno having a GFW-like gimmick would be nice.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Chill Observer on April 20, 2017, 05:48:08 pm
Tanned Cirno is delicious.

Seems like we have spell practice back again, nice. New engine game for th16?

Also, the "simpler mechanics" bit. I'm not so sure about that. The game already seems to use a life and bomb piece system which adds some complexity on its own. Now we'll just need to see its scoring.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 05:55:04 pm
Also, the "simpler mechanics" bit. I'm not so sure about that. The game already seems to use a life and bomb piece system which adds some complexity on its own. Now we'll just need to see its scoring.

On closer inspection, and I admit my eyesight isn't what it used to be, but I don't see fractions of hearts or stars. So maybe you get entire bombs or lives at a time.

There is graze though it seems. So I'd guess a score-based item collection.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 20, 2017, 06:03:33 pm
By the way, ZUN's backgrounds seem to become more and more photo like. That Marisa screenshot, the sky looks quite nice.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 20, 2017, 06:08:23 pm
Speaking of stage backgrounds, does anyone know where he gets all of it from?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 06:09:54 pm
Yeah that stage looks glorious.

The normal difficulty is 夏の夕立級 "Summer Evening Shower Class".

Ah, so the seasons are difficulty levels then? This is getting more interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PK on April 20, 2017, 06:14:42 pm
What is Marisa saying in that screenshot?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Neovereign on April 20, 2017, 06:17:56 pm
Tanned/EX Cirno looks pretty good. Good as in I can't stop thinking about it. Laughing, wondering why, praising, etc. And she's playable in a main game, as people have said before. Wonder if it's just uphill from there...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 20, 2017, 06:32:42 pm
Marisa is complaining about the heat. So some erratic climate changes seems to be the case.
"なんだよ暑いじゃねーかこのヤロ !"
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Maple on April 20, 2017, 06:35:53 pm
Marisa in winter-like gear, four seasons, those blue options and 3 blue triangles...

Maybe Marisa gets to use Cold Inferno again like in MoF? Probably a modified version, though.

What is Marisa saying in that screenshot?

なんだよ[kanji]いじゃねーか このヤロー!

I guess ヤロー (Yaroo) is yellow or Yarrow (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yarrow).

"What's up with this [kanji]? This Yaroo [whatever it is]!"

Yeah, the kanji may be 暑 heat.

Edit: Notice that she's probably complaining about the heat while using winter clothing on a sunny day.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 20, 2017, 07:26:36 pm
By the way, what does the japanese title translate to?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 20, 2017, 07:55:37 pm
Oh boy, all this art work about tanned Cirno. I can't think of any thing else but completely be amused. ZUN being unpredictable as usual in an awesome way.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Sedrife on April 20, 2017, 08:02:06 pm
By the way, what does the japanese title translate to?

東方 (Eastern) 天空 (Sky) 璋 (Scepter / orb)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 20, 2017, 08:11:41 pm
Yaroo means "bastard". She's essentially cursing the climate out.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Mino ☆ on April 20, 2017, 08:23:37 pm
Not sure if this was brought up, but is it possible that every character will have two shot types?

Here's a google doc me and a friend put together of our evidence for this theory (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F-z7S0j-vKQ7X9X7fOYBLsVvC9kZiTVAmA898LKVSbg/edit?usp=sharing)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 20, 2017, 08:26:24 pm
 :getdown: :getdown: :getdown:

I was already wondering whether ZUN was going to bring another main game this year or not, but oh boy, here it is! Playable Aya and TANNED Cirno? Have all my money.

But honestly, is it just me or did ZUN's artstyle change yet again? I kinda didn't immediately recognize his style on the screencaps, especially with that tanned Cirno. The HUD looks also sorta different from what we're used to from ZUN so far. Can't wait to see the first three stages and the game's mechanics, with the latter being season-based (from what I could take from the info so far) sounds fairly interesting to me. E: I can't read, goddamn. I'm fine with a MoF-like system though.

That's the third main game's release I'm going to witness up-close since I got into Touhou, first one being DDC. What exciting times  :toot:
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 20, 2017, 08:30:13 pm
Quote
Doing a 180 from the last work, I'm going for a really light and refreshing feeling, I guess?
So a less-gimmicky game? I can roll with that. It might also just mean "none of the IWBTG mechanics from LoLK."

First impressions:

I'm looking forward to seeing demo videos (assuming the demo does get released) and of course listening to the soundtrack ZUN has cooked up this time around. Skipped LoLK because it didn't interest me; if this one looks good I'll likely be ordering a copy.

Oh, and as usual, prepare for a metric ton of fan content and speculation!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Wrathful_Scythe on April 20, 2017, 08:56:46 pm
I'm all for a more relaxed game after LoLK with the serious tone and the weird difficulty. Not saying that I want it to be much easier but the difficulty in the last two games felt kinda off. LoLK went with the checkpoint system, which I can't, for the best of me, like at all seeing as lunatic is not that much harder than normal and DDC spiked it up with Sukuna, being one of the hardest stage 6 bosses in the series (for me at least).  That said, I'm pumped.

Aya and Cirno as playables.... man, that might even break my tradition of always starting with Marisa.
On a side note: Reimu looks kinda psychotic. Seems the whole moon affair left its marks.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Monaco on April 20, 2017, 08:57:11 pm
Not sure if this was brought up, but is it possible that every character will have two shot types?
Four characters with two shot types each seems a bit much.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on April 20, 2017, 09:22:26 pm
Wait, lemme just clarify a thing, was she just called Tanned Cirno in Zun's description or even in her character select page she's being called that?

Cuz that'd be pretty funny.

That being said I wonder what this one will be all about.

Since the game's about seasons and the title is "Eastern Sky Orb/Scepter" the first thing that came to mind was Oracle of Seasons.

Also on Aya's screenshot the fairy on the left has some weird pellets on top of her.  I wonder if those are a new kind of item, or just danmaku.

Either way this is so exciting!!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: dark36 on April 20, 2017, 09:34:35 pm
is it just me or does Aya's image looks like she used a bomb( the thing at her left)?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Mero on April 20, 2017, 09:37:41 pm
I really like how the HUD looks this time, very colorful, yet not as busy as LoLK's.
I have to say, I don't like seeing the 0/3 and 0/5 life/bomb pieces, but who knows, maybe we'll get something else from that now, probably related to that corner gauge. I wonder how the overall difficulty will turn out with going for a "simpler" game this time (but hey, Spell practice is back, that's something), though I really don't expect precision dodges to come back full force after Junko.

Cirno being the summer character is certainly an odd one, and she's brown now, so fanart is probablydefinitely exploding over that right now, I wonder how she will work now. And Aya is a really nice addition imo, gotta go fast. The secondary options thing looks interesting, and Marisa's layout reminded me of he DDC flamethrower, with her being winter-themed, maybe we will see Cold inferno again (a.k.a. the best shot Marisa's ever had). Maybe ZUN is making Marisa great again
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Hello Purvis on April 20, 2017, 09:55:22 pm
I really like Cirno's little sunflower bow =]
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on April 20, 2017, 10:35:51 pm
One can only hope. I love TD's soundtrack to death, but the musical quality of the chosen sound fonts has been declining since SA.
LoLK wasn't bad, it's just not very memorable.
Pure Furies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, except Gensokyo the Gods Loved
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Monaco on April 20, 2017, 10:41:19 pm
Wait, lemme just clarify a thing, was she just called Tanned Cirno in Zun's description or even in her character select page she's being called that?
She's called Tanned Cirno in the screenshot too.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Chill Observer on April 20, 2017, 10:51:48 pm
I'm fine if this game had 8 total shots. RSS had 9. IN with solos had like 12 lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 20, 2017, 10:52:38 pm
Quote from: Mero link=topic=20728.msg1334791#msg1334791
I don't like seeing the 0/3 and 0/5 life/bomb pieces, but who knows, maybe we'll get something else from that now, probably related to that corner gauge.

Ah, I missed that.

I'm kinda hoping as well that this game ties in with Alternative Facts somehow, if for no other reason than alt-right otaku are already incredibly butthurt at ZUN right now.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 20, 2017, 10:53:55 pm
I'm kinda hoping as well that this game ties in with Alternative Facts somehow, if for no other reason than alt-right otaku are already incredibly butthurt at ZUN right now.

Please no. I've had enough of american politics on the net being literally everywhere, I'd rather not have any more of it in Touhou.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on April 20, 2017, 11:00:05 pm
Sweet, Cirno playable in a main. Wasn't expecting that.

Hoping the new characters' designs will be nice, I found the TH14 ones generally bland (especially the non-demo characters) and I'm not fond at all of most TH15 designs except Sagume and to a lesser extent Junko.
Same thing with the music actually, found the TH14 soundtrack overall fairly boring aside from Sukuna's theme growing on me, although TH15's was overall better.

Most importantly though, I hope the gameplay will be fun! Cirno having a GFW-like gimmick would be nice.
TH14 does have unique concepts for te series, though, like Wakasagihime not having legs, Sekibanki's head shenanigans, and Shinmyoumaru's size.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 20, 2017, 11:03:18 pm
TH14 does have unique concepts for te series, though, like Wakasagihime not having legs, Sekibanki's head shenanigans, and Shinmyoumaru's size.

That's true. The gameplay gimmicks on Seija and Shinmyoumaru were interesting also. I just wasn't really fond of the post-stage 3 cast.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Plubio on April 20, 2017, 11:17:25 pm
I'm kinda hoping as well that this game ties in with Alternative Facts somehow, if for no other reason than alt-right otaku are already incredibly butthurt at ZUN right now.

Oh? Did I miss something?
I mean, everytime someone's mad at ZUN because he decides to write down stuff. I guess that's nothing new.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Maple on April 20, 2017, 11:24:36 pm
That's true. The gameplay gimmicks on Seija and Shinmyoumaru were interesting also. I just wasn't really fond of the post-stage 3 cast.

Wouldn't that be because two of these characters are the rather forgettable Tsukumo sisters, and another one was Raiko who's slightly less forgettable. Their character niche was already filled by the Prismreznors sisters. Seija and Shinmyoumaru are leagues above them, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on April 20, 2017, 11:27:07 pm
Really nice to see more new protagonists in a mainline Touhou game. I look forward to seeing the gameplay this time around, especially with the new colored meters and all.

Edit: Also this is the first Touhou game with a five word subtitle: HSiFS. This will take some getting used to, lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 20, 2017, 11:30:09 pm
Wouldn't that be because two of these characters are the rather forgettable Tsukumo sisters, and another one was Raiko who's slightly less forgettable. Their character niche was already filled by the Prismreznors sisters. Seija and Shinmyoumaru are leagues above them, though.
I dunno, the cast as a whole felt kind of underwhelming to me. Some in terms of design, some for other reasons such as abilities. Usually you have these characters that have rather specific abilities, and here it was like... Kagerou, species werewolf. What's her power? "Can transform into a wolf on the night of the full moon." Oh uh, okay. I mean that's just what any werewolf does but sure. How about the Tsukumos then, they must have cool music or sound related powers? "Making sounds and performing on her own." ... ah.

Seija and Shinmyoumaru I grew warmer to much later on but initially I wasn't that interested in either (or flat out disliked in Seija's case.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suspicious person on April 20, 2017, 11:39:19 pm
is it just me or did ZUN's artstyle change yet again?
Seems pretty similar to how he drew DrLFR's cover art imo. So a wee bit different compared to ZUNart in the games in general, maybe ? Pretty fine though.

The ZUNart this time look pretty OK imo. I mean, look at that Marisa and compare her to LoLK's :leMarisaFace: : it's quite something. There's not a lot of ZUNart to see besides the 3 ones we have so far so I can't say for sure whether this games' art is gonna be better than the others but I must say I am quite pleased with the ones we see now. Heck, he even got the fingers' number right. I am curious to see how the rest of the cast are gonna look like

...Gonna miss the good times where we could laugh at the bad anatomy  :(
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 20, 2017, 11:43:22 pm
Brace yourselves on another round of "Mima is Back" lmao

Yeah. I am totally ready.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 21, 2017, 12:04:40 am
Seems pretty similar to how he drew DrLFR's cover art imo. So a wee bit different compared to ZUNart in the games in general, maybe ? Pretty fine though.

The ZUNart this time look pretty OK imo. I mean, look at that Marisa and compare her to LoLK's :leMarisaFace: : it's quite something. There's not a lot of ZUNart to see besides the 3 ones we have so far so I can't say for sure whether this games' art is gonna be better than the others but I must say I am quite pleased with the ones we see now. Heck, he even got the fingers' number right. I am curious to see how the rest of the cast are gonna look like

...Gonna miss the good times where we could laugh at the bad anatomy  :(

ZUNart jokes were funny times indeed...

But honestly, I think that ZUN did improve his artstyle here from what we can see so far, to me at least, so that's why I didn't recognize the style immediately. Tanned Cirno is perhaps the most unusual turn he took, and I honestly like that quite a lot. It makes the whole plot more interesting, to which I'm really looking forward to know something about as well as the newcomers.

Also Clownpiece's missing right thumb is a thing too


Pure Furies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, except Gensokyo the Gods Loved

same here
but I like all of ZUN's OST tbh
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Failure McFailFace on April 21, 2017, 12:09:26 am
wut i didn't see this before
why am i hyped
is this the easier game i've been wanting since impossible spell card came out

It looks like we're not going back to the BlueChip setup sadly.  They've been utterly meaningless since Mountain of Faith...
Here's some examples where they're useful since MoF:

In a scoring aspect, they're very important. In the survival aspect I can see why it's near useless to you for score items to exist. But you can't just say that they're "useless" when it's almost impossible to get resources in UFO and DDC from just using power items. By your logic, ZUN should just remove power items and keep you at 4.00 power because they give little score and do nothing but increment a number on the side of the screen and make bosses die slightly faster.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Mikuru on April 21, 2017, 12:30:08 am
By your logic, ZUN should just remove power items and keep you at 4.00 power because they give little score and do nothing but increment a number on the side of the screen and make bosses die slightly faster.
Well, why not? I know I'm not the first to say this, but the power system is a great example of something that's in the games because it's always been there, and maybe it's time to reconsider. It makes the early game more annoying and luck-based (especially in EoSD / PCB where you can't PoC below max power, but thankfully that's been left behind), and it makes deaths unnecessarily costly (especially in UFO).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 21, 2017, 12:33:36 am
Well, why not? I know I'm not the first to say this, but the power system is a great example of something that's in the games because it's always been there, and maybe it's time to reconsider. It makes the early game more annoying and luck-based (especially in EoSD / PCB where you can't PoC below max power, but thankfully that's been left behind), and it makes deaths unnecessarily costly (especially in UFO).

A gradual power system is pretty much a staple of the shmup genre and there's honestly very little reason to do away with it. It makes the game more of a gradual curve of difficulty with milder early levels - and the power level that goes with it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on April 21, 2017, 12:45:39 am
Yeah that stage looks glorious.

Ah, so the seasons are difficulty levels then? This is getting more interesting.
As I understand it, they are confusingly two unrelated things. The difficulties are named after seasons, while the four characters also each correspond to a season.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ZoomyTsugumi on April 21, 2017, 12:47:34 am
Well, why not? I know I'm not the first to say this, but the power system is a great example of something that's in the games because it's always been there, and maybe it's time to reconsider. It makes the early game more annoying and luck-based (especially in EoSD / PCB where you can't PoC below max power, but thankfully that's been left behind), and it makes deaths unnecessarily costly (especially in UFO).
EoSD especially also sucked with the gradual power in the earlygame because on top of not being able to PoC without max power, the way the enemy bullets were shot made it much harder to fly around collecting everything. Most of the stage 1s after that in the series were significantly more streaming based or wider in their patterns which made it overall easier to collect everything anyway. Not to mention the fact that EoSD and PCB literally had luck based drops and were never guaranteed to drop power items on certain enemies.
But yeah the loss of power hindering you is honestly an incentive to play better especially later game. And besides, outside of UFO it almost feels like the difference between 3-4 power is getting more negligible as the games go by, but maybe thats just me.

Back to something more on topic. I want the return of a score based life system tbh, but I can make do with a fragmented system again. I just hope there's something involved in the system that can give some cool multipliers or something. DDC's score system was kinda lame imo so I want something cooler.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on April 21, 2017, 12:50:06 am
A gradual power system is pretty much a staple of the shmup genre and there's honestly very little reason to do away with it. It makes the game more of a gradual curve of difficulty with milder early levels - and the power level that goes with it.
Eh to be fair there are a bunch of shmups that already did away with powerups. Crimzon Clover is a notable example.

Imo the power system is good in the sense that it forces a little variation in gameplay strategy as a result of deaths, and it also does a decent job of separating out high scores in games where power items turn into other items at max power.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: N-Forza on April 21, 2017, 02:30:13 am
As I understand it, they are confusingly two unrelated things. The difficulties are named after seasons, while the four characters also each correspond to a season.
I get the feeling the difficulties are going to take more after types of precipitation.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on April 21, 2017, 03:05:07 am
I get the feeling the difficulties are going to take more after types of precipitation.
I think winds are also on the table. For example, it can be Cool Spring Breeze (Suzukaze), Summer Evening Shower (Yuudachi), Grass-dividing Autumn Typhoon (Nowaki), Winter Snow Storm (Fubuki)... I can imagine some fans see the climate theme as practically an open invitation for KanColle puns.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fluury on April 21, 2017, 04:46:28 am
I just re-read it and it said he'll *sell* the demo.

Aren't demos supposed to be free? Least in the west.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 21, 2017, 04:52:27 am
I just re-read it and it said he'll *sell* the demo.

Aren't demos supposed to be free? Least in the west.

if i recall correctly, he always has sold the demos. they're cheap, though; usually about 500-600 yen !
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: mannik on April 21, 2017, 05:04:53 am
I hope this game will have bright and joyful music, just like "The Childlike Duo's Naturalis Historia".

And playables Cirno-tan and Aya Crow are freaking amazing!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tsalop on April 21, 2017, 05:11:20 am
Looks like Cirno has become somewhat special character considering how many times he has appeared in official games... Quite a feat for a level 1 boss.
Personally I hope that Alice would get more screen time, after all she is a special character.

Anyway as this game is season based I really hope we could see Letty or the Aki sisters making a new appearance...
Another thing I though  that would be cool and theme related is that the playable characters would have a sidekick:

Cirno and Yuuka will form a tag team, Aya will pair with the Aki sisters and Marisa and would team up with Letty...
Poor Reimu has to do with sarcastic Lily Black as Lily White has more important things to do.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 21, 2017, 05:13:05 am
I just re-read it and it said he'll *sell* the demo.

Aren't demos supposed to be free? Least in the west.
They're sold for a low cost before the full game is released. After that the demo will be available for free download on his website. People buy the demos to support ZUN while getting a collectable CD and case in return.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: N-Forza on April 21, 2017, 05:21:06 am
Yeah, some demos are free, some are sold for a small price. It's entirely up to the circle/developer.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 21, 2017, 06:01:02 am
While Cirno gets all the attention and love for her tan, in the mean while Reimu is wielding a LANCE. That Gohei is long. Very long.

Several artwork already appeared expressing this.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tsalop on April 21, 2017, 06:08:30 am
While Cirno gets all the attention and love for her tan, in the mean while Reimu is wielding a LANCE. That Gohei is long. Very long.

Several artwork already appeared expressing this.

Maybe she realized after killing the fortune teller that she needs a bigger weapon?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on April 21, 2017, 06:44:58 am
Yeah, some demos are free, some are sold for a small price. It's entirely up to the circle/developer.
I remember someone suggesting the idea of a paid demo for some other game, and nobody else thought it was a good idea.

At least ZUN offers them for free eventually.  Let's face it, does anyone really want to pay just to "watch a trailer?"
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 21, 2017, 06:50:08 am
While Cirno gets all the attention and love for her tan, in the mean while Reimu is wielding a LANCE. That Gohei is long. Very long.

Several artwork already appeared expressing this.

Reimu's gohei getting longer with each sequel is already the case in the past. Its only with HSiFS that it became long enough as to become a meme.
Although I also have to note that the gohei shrunk back to normal length for all the fighting games (IaMP, SWR, HM, ULiL) before explicitly becoming long again in the next shooting game.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on April 21, 2017, 07:08:24 am
Quite a feat for a level 1 boss.

/me slaps Tsalop with EoSD jewel case

Maybe she realized after killing the fortune teller that she needs a bigger weapon?

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" - Clownpiece, probably
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: not ZUNs wife on April 21, 2017, 07:12:54 am
(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201704/20/42/e0088742_21533462.png)

What does Marisa say here?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Onion on April 21, 2017, 07:19:21 am
"Return to basics"

inb4 ZUN overhauls the game into HRtP.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 21, 2017, 07:35:23 am
(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201704/20/42/e0088742_21533462.png)

What does Marisa say here?

"なんだよ暑いじゃねーかこのヤロ "
"Why is it so hot? Goddang..."

Or something like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 07:44:00 am
Please no. I've had enough of american politics on the net being literally everywhere, I'd rather not have any more of it in Touhou.

Bit too late for that I'm afraid.

I get the feeling the difficulties are going to take more after types of precipitation.

Ah, this makes more sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on April 21, 2017, 07:45:13 am
Only Marisa would go out in winter clothing in the middle of spring/summer and complain about the heat.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: martelefort on April 21, 2017, 08:28:26 am
Only Marisa would go out in winter clothing in the middle of spring/summer and complain about the heat.

I'm sure she can't help it, imo all the characters got stuck in a season, maybe according to their personnalities or something ( sounds like SWR though ).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 21, 2017, 08:29:45 am
I remember someone suggesting the idea of a paid demo for some other game, and nobody else thought it was a good idea.

At least ZUN offers them for free eventually.  Let's face it, does anyone really want to pay just to "watch a trailer?"
I think it's pretty well-understood in the doujin scene that charging something like 200~300円 is basically just to recoup any production costs. It's less about it being a demo than it is just being a physical release with a large number of copies to be made. Spending say a dollar per copy for even 1000 copies still puts you down a thousand bucks. People will pay the small bit to cover it and get the demo rather than wait for the free web version that only comes out a few weeks before the full version anyways, so why not?


Quote
なんだよ暑いじゃねーかこのヤロ
Marisa's line is something else. I can't really describe it besides saying that it sounds hilarious. I don't think I can translate how funny it sounds.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 21, 2017, 09:17:24 am
Well, yaroo means "bastard". Essentially, she's not pleased. XD
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Marron on April 21, 2017, 09:33:50 am
I'm sure she can't help it, imo all the characters got stuck in a season, maybe according to their personnalities or something ( sounds like SWR though ).

Hmmm...well in that case I don't understand why Marisa doesn't have the summer season. She's oftenly joyful and a little "wtf". It doesn't really contrast with her personnality.
In truth, aside from the fact that Reimu is often associated with spring and even has a theme with "spring" as a title, I would see Reimu more associated with winter, she seems more cold, she exterminates youkai without any reason even though it's not for evil intentions. I mean, she tends to keep some distance with most of Gensokyo's residents while Marisa is more interested and open to the other residents, may they be youkai or not by the way.
But it's true since LoLK, it seems like Marisa has become somewhat more...cold or something like that.(It's more a feeling I have, though.)
She used to be kind of cruel and sarcastic in the 98 era too. Maybe it's not only the game, maybe Marisa is returning to the classic one ? Lol, just joking.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 21, 2017, 09:52:55 am
Bit too late for that I'm afraid.
Yes, I'm aware, hence "not any more of it." Having any of it in Touhou was to me a misstep already.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 21, 2017, 09:54:01 am
Well, yaroo means "bastard". Essentially, she's not pleased. XD
I mean more that I don't think I could do it justice, not that I couldn't translate it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: martelefort on April 21, 2017, 10:01:50 am
Hmmm...well in that case I don't understand why Marisa doesn't have the summer season. She's oftenly joyful and a little "wtf". It doesn't really contrast with her personnality.


Welp i have nothing to say against that  :derp:. Even in CiLA Rinnosuke mentions multiple times that Marisa is weak against the cold, and isn't especially pleased about winter.
Though i think Spring is pretty fitting for Reimu. Then maybe it will be just random, with characters more or less pleased about the outcome .(Cirno's outfit shows she isn't displeased about it imo)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 21, 2017, 10:03:21 am
English is a pretty poor language when it comes to these kind of nuances. I wouldn't even know how to justify it in Dutch. In Turkish on the other hand, I could translate it without mangling the expression.

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on April 21, 2017, 10:10:58 am
I think it's pretty well-understood in the doujin scene that charging something like 200~300円 is basically just to recoup any production costs. It's less about it being a demo than it is just being a physical release with a large number of copies to be made. Spending say a dollar per copy for even 1000 copies still puts you down a thousand bucks. People will pay the small bit to cover it and get the demo rather than wait for the free web version that only comes out a few weeks before the full version anyways, so why not?
Dedicated fans may do that, but no matter how you look at it, the majority would rather receive it free than to pay for something that only has limited contents and becomes obsolete eventually.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Marron on April 21, 2017, 10:11:43 am

Welp i have nothing to say against that  :derp:. Even in CiLA Rinnosuke mentions multiple times that Marisa is weak against the cold, and isn't especially pleased about winter.
Though i think Spring is pretty fitting for Reimu. Then maybe it will be just random, with characters more or less pleased about the outcome .(Cirno's outfit shows she isn't displeased about it imo)

When you think about it, story wise, it's a pretty interesting idea. I mean, putting two characters that fan oftenly associate a season(Aya/Reimu), while the other two are characters you wouldn't normally think with the season they represent(Marisa/Cirno). Marisa could be the complaining one, while Cirno would be the "wow, that weather's freaking cool" one with some funny lines.

It might be a faint wish, but I really hope Yuuka'll make an appearance. Boss 4, with different spell card depending the characters you play or the season. Since she's the flowermaster of four season, that could be a great opportunity for Yuuka to show off her flower power by the help of the four seasons, and for us to see beautiful battles !
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 10:37:03 am
Dedicated fans may do that, but no matter how you look at it, the majority would rather receive it free than to pay for something that only has limited contents and becomes obsolete eventually.

The majority of people would rather receive everything for free. This isn't relevant. Comparing it to a movie trailer would only be valid if trailers were like the first half of the movie.

I mean, just wait for the full version and buy it I guess. This is such a weird, entitled complaint.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 21, 2017, 10:42:44 am
Dedicated fans may do that, but no matter how you look at it, the majority would rather receive it free than to pay for something that only has limited contents and becomes obsolete eventually.
Wow, people want to not pay for things. Good for them?


By the way, I think it's worth mentioning that the calls for "simple gameplay" here don't necessarily match up with what ZUN might call uncomplicated. People seem to interpret this to mean mostly barebones systems whose mechanics are mostly geared towards scoring and otherwise not an active part of regular play. All he really seemed to say with DDC is that there are "no complicated systems so that people can freely enjoy dodging bullets". Which really is what the game is -- there's no special items, no strange mechanics or abilities, etc (note DDC came after divine spirits, trance, freezing, cameras, and UFOs); you just dodge things, PoC a lot, and bomb. While it is true that the game is fairly demanding in that it wants you to aggressively route PoCs and/or bomb for resources, that doesn't really make the system "complicated". Now after LoLK, that's probably more of what we're going to see here. People seem to be looking for a more "coasting" game where they don't have to concentrate on anything besides the patterns, which I don't think is necessarily the intention.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 10:46:59 am
wut i didn't see this before
why am i hyped
is this the easier game i've been wanting since impossible spell card came out

Here's some examples where they're useful since MoF:
  • UFO: Mixed with a Rainbow UFO, you get power. Parts of stage 2 come to mind specifically for farming power from point items and Rainbow UFOs. Also useful as filler for Green and Red UFOs.
  • DDC: Essential for getting 2.0 multiplier and life pieces. Parts of the game only spawn enemies that drop score items.

In a scoring aspect, they're very important. In the survival aspect I can see why it's near useless to you for score items to exist. But you can't just say that they're "useless" when it's almost impossible to get resources in UFO and DDC from just using power items. By your logic, ZUN should just remove power items and keep you at 4.00 power because they give little score and do nothing but increment a number on the side of the screen and make bosses die slightly faster.

Actually my thought was the opposite.

Why not make all of them Red instead?  So one you hit max power all the Reds give bonuses as a sorta overcharge bonus.

I might be wrong about this but don't the UFOs and DDC things not care if you're feeding em reds or blues just sheer volume of things nomed up by them?  I'm more sure about this with DDC than with UFO though. In the 'Everything is Red' scenario the system still works out as is without changing the core mechanic.

Still we saw in Fairy Wars that it's plausible to roll with and kinda interesting.  And Mystical Power Plant so far has give me always max and was interesting on how that worked out.  And really why shouldn't he do that?  Outside score based extend-based  games score really doesn't mean anything.



I think winds are also on the table. For example, it can be Cool Spring Breeze (Suzukaze), Summer Evening Shower (Yuudachi), Grass-dividing Autumn Typhoon (Nowaki), Winter Snow Storm (Fubuki)... I can imagine some fans see the climate theme as practically an open invitation for KanColle puns.

Although I think with the obvious poi puns word filters might be needed else we'd reach a POInt where everyone goes insane rather quickly.

Well, why not? I know I'm not the first to say this, but the power system is a great example of something that's in the games because it's always been there, and maybe it's time to reconsider. It makes the early game more annoying and luck-based (especially in EoSD / PCB where you can't PoC below max power, but thankfully that's been left behind), and it makes deaths unnecessarily costly (especially in UFO).

I kinda think it'd be interesting to try out more if only because of that.  With bombs not actually drawing from fire power again it's not like it'd matter at all.  It'd kinda be novel.  I mean POFV didn't have boosting primary shot leveling and it worked out... although admittedly POFV is weird.

Also if this discussion of concepts needs a spinoff just make the move as I'd find it neat to think about this.

Wow, people want to not pay for things. Good for them?


By the way, I think it's worth mentioning that the calls for "simple gameplay" here don't necessarily match up with what ZUN might call uncomplicated. People seem to interpret this to mean mostly barebones systems whose mechanics are mostly geared towards scoring and otherwise not an active part of regular play. All he really seemed to say with DDC is that there are "no complicated systems so that people can freely enjoy dodging bullets". Which really is what the game is -- there's no special items, no strange mechanics or abilities, etc (note DDC came after divine spirits, trance, freezing, cameras, and UFOs); you just dodge things, PoC a lot, and bomb. While it is true that the game is fairly demanding in that it wants you to aggressively route PoCs and/or bomb for resources, that doesn't really make the system "complicated". Now after LoLK, that's probably more of what we're going to see here. People seem to be looking for a more "coasting" game where they don't have to concentrate on anything besides the patterns, which I don't think is necessarily the intention.

I'd rather have a game going back to simplicity. I don't want a DDC style setup as that was just as heavily gimmick focused as UFO or TD. Just get us back to like EoSD/PCB/IN (just make sure the hitboxes ain't wonky like in EoSD).  I don't like the entire "YOU MUST BE HYPER AGGRESSIVE OR GET NOTHING" Mindset that LoLK and DDC really pushed. 

I like the idea for a 'coasting' game which is just focused on having fun and not dealing with annoying gimmicks. Hell it's been what I've been kinda looking for for years,  TD brought the difficulty back down from "This is just not fun at all" of UFO but LoLK went 'you call that hard?'  Because of Point Device Mode being pushed super hard because of how bad the drops were in Legacy Mode.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 21, 2017, 11:11:23 am
When is Summer Komiket, by the way?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 21, 2017, 11:30:18 am
I'd rather have a game going back to simplicity. I don't want a DDC style setup as that was just as heavily gimmick focused as UFO or TD. Just get us back to like EoSD/PCB/IN (just make sure the hitboxes ain't wonky like in EoSD).  I don't like the entire "YOU MUST BE HYPER AGGRESSIVE OR GET NOTHING" Mindset that LoLK and DDC really pushed. 

I like the idea for a 'coasting' game which is just focused on having fun and not dealing with annoying gimmicks. Hell it's been what I've been kinda looking for for years,  TD brought the difficulty back down from "This is just not fun at all" of UFO but LoLK went 'you call that hard?'  Because of Point Device Mode being pushed super hard because of how bad the drops were in Legacy Mode.
To be honest though, I don't think that DDC has anything gameplay-wise that could be warranted as a truly intrusive gimmick aside the PoC-mechanic, which is actually a really simple and easy thing compared to especially UFO, TD and LoLK. The resource system there actually has IMO the most sustainable concept out of all games so far, meaning that the mechanic allows you to collect an indefinite amount of  lives and bombs. In the aforementioned three games, however, the special items from which you obtain said resources all have a definite amount which will actually limit resource gain, TD moreso than the others, considering that each subsequent extend requires more pink spirits which are already pretty sparse if you don't speedkill certain stage enemies. LoLK doesn't have any special items like UFO and TD did, but there's that grazing mechanic and the checkpoint system that make the gameplay unique and challenging.

I'm assuming that HSiFS will turn out similar like DDC, considering we all have a somewhat different interpretation of what "simple gameplay" is like. ZUN said that DDC was going to be simple game mechanic-wise, and compared to its predecessors it actually was. It may involve scoring as an essential way to gain resources like EoSD or MoF, or a PoC based mechanic like DDC. The gauge in the bottom left corner kinda reminds me of MoF's faith (PIV) meter, but in HSiFS the PIV is displayed with all other HUD elements so the gauge might involve something new.

When is Summer Komiket, by the way?
Usually mid-August, hence the previous full main games were all released on August 12-15ish.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 21, 2017, 11:51:37 am
Something interesting I haven't seen noticed yet: Reimu's bonus options seem to be Aya's crows.

(http://i.imgur.com/1t5pI2A.png)

(https://twitter.com/drakeirving/status/855387104632811521)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 12:57:08 pm
To be honest though, I don't think that DDC has anything gameplay-wise that could be warranted as a truly intrusive gimmick aside the PoC-mechanic, which is actually a really simple and easy thing compared to especially UFO, TD and LoLK. The resource system there actually has IMO the most sustainable concept out of all games so far, meaning that the mechanic allows you to collect an indefinite amount of  lives and bombs. In the aforementioned three games, however, the special items from which you obtain said resources all have a definite amount which will actually limit resource gain, TD moreso than the others, considering that each subsequent extend requires more pink spirits which are already pretty sparse if you don't speedkill certain stage enemies. LoLK doesn't have any special items like UFO and TD did, but there's that grazing mechanic and the checkpoint system that make the gameplay unique and challenging.

I'm assuming that HSiFS will turn out similar like DDC, considering we all have a somewhat different interpretation of what "simple gameplay" is like. ZUN said that DDC was going to be simple game mechanic-wise, and compared to its predecessors it actually was. It may involve scoring as an essential way to gain resources like EoSD or MoF, or a PoC based mechanic like DDC. The gauge in the bottom left corner kinda reminds me of MoF's faith (PIV) meter, but in HSiFS the PIV is displayed with all other HUD elements so the gauge might involve something new.

Well with DDC you had to be extremely aggressive or you got nothing from the POC except maybe a random sympathy bomb fragment, which randomly might be a life frag if you're getting constant bomb fragments.  No clue if Marisa B's bomb actually gets you resources outside being a screen clear that does no damage (why does Zun love Zero Damage bombs so much lately) so I didn't use her. Most of the time you're perfectly fine in other games not rushing the POC If you're focusing on performing a fairy line clear (resources drop right on you so why rush.  Unless you've got a narrow shot then eh???)

I loathed being forced to pretty much pray I could DPS enough to not only clear a line but be able to almost instantly kill anything jumping from the top of screen when I tried to POC grab. If Zun only got rid of the kinda awful idea that every life up needed more and more fragments I think TD's system could have worked out far better. Of course with TD's difficulty level I always found it really easy to collect what spirits I wanted and because shot types actually had decent scaling it was kinda rare to have targets escape which carried frags.

The bottom left meter also kinda reminded me of the SA reception bar thing but that was just for points after all and really didn't do much for gameplay from what I saw.  If this is going for point extends maybe it'll matter but we'll need a gimmicky new pickup for it to work unless it's another Graze or get Nothing setup... Which is honestly an awful form of gimmick focused gameplay
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 01:12:10 pm
Well with DDC you had to be extremely aggressive or you got nothing from the POC except maybe a random sympathy bomb fragment, which randomly might be a life frag if you're getting constant bomb fragments.  No clue if Marisa B's bomb actually gets you resources outside being a screen clear that does no damage (why does Zun love Zero Damage bombs so much lately) so I didn't use her. Most of the time you're perfectly fine in other games not rushing the POC If you're focusing on performing a fairy line clear (resources drop right on you so why rush.  Unless you've got a narrow shot then eh???)

You can also get life fragments if the items you collect from going above the POC total 2.0, or if you just straight bomb when there's enough enemies on the screen. Lord knows I did that plenty of times.

As someone who normally plays Easy/Normal, I didn't find DDC Normal to be that hard, like at all. Seija was mind-boggling, sure, but riding that POC was actually the easiest part of the game for me. I think it's a stretch at best to call POC-for-item-collect a "gimmick", but even if we accept that it was, it's not like a totally out there and unprecedented aspect of a shmup to put in there.

Fortunately, there are loads of replays you can look up that'll attest to just how easy the POC thing is, and there's no shame in watching them to learn from them.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Mikuru on April 21, 2017, 01:20:32 pm
I'd rather have a game going back to simplicity. I don't want a DDC style setup as that was just as heavily gimmick focused as UFO or TD. Just get us back to like EoSD/PCB/IN (just make sure the hitboxes ain't wonky like in EoSD).  I don't like the entire "YOU MUST BE HYPER AGGRESSIVE OR GET NOTHING" Mindset that LoLK and DDC really pushed.
But PCB and IN are just as heavy on the risk/reward gameplay as DDC... firstly, you have to PoC to get the extends, since they depend on number of items. Secondly, PCB gives you much more cherry for shooting unfocused, and to get borders at the right time you often have to plan them a long way in advance. IN has you shooting unfocused to gain time orbs, and often not shooting at all to wait for a good cancel.

Really, I like the fact that every game has its own unique gimmick; it's what makes them all different, and ensures that when I'm feeling frustrated with lack of progress in one game, I can have fun playing a different one. And each one tests and encourages me to improve a different aspect of play -- unfocused dodging, PoCing, grazing, timing and placing bombs (in MoF), etc. So I look forward to seeing what TH16 will have to offer :)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 21, 2017, 01:23:33 pm
TD arguably had a great soundtrack. But I also loved DDC's. Especially Sukuna's theme. LoLK wasn't bad, it's just not very memorable.

For me, it was a combination of the songs themselves and the sound font used to make them. TD's sound font isn't as bad as that of DDC or LoLK, but it's not as good as UFO's, which wasn't as good as SA's.

For individual tracks themselves, though, there are a few in each game that are certainly good, but without the Hifuu CDs, Little Princess was literally the only song between the two games I could recall any part of without listening to it, and even that required forcing the OSt on myself a few times while at work. Everything else just...didn't stick. At all. Pristine Beat in particular was a massive disappointment in this regard given how highly it was being touted back in the day.

I imagine this is mostly a product of ZUN's musical tastes changing, so really, all I can reasonably hope for is a sound font that doesn't sound anything like anything after UFO.

(My comment was also generalized to the games on the whole - I love playing TD and feel like DDC and LoLK are outright chores - but that's a discussion for another thread.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 01:42:09 pm
You can also get life fragments if the items you collect from going above the POC total 2.0, or if you just straight bomb when there's enough enemies on the screen. Lord knows I did that plenty of times.

As someone who normally plays Easy/Normal, I didn't find DDC Normal to be that hard, like at all. Seija was mind-boggling, sure, but riding that POC was actually the easiest part of the game for me. I think it's a stretch at best to call POC-for-item-collect a "gimmick", but even if we accept that it was, it's not like a totally out there and unprecedented aspect of a shmup to put in there.

Fortunately, there are loads of replays you can look up that'll attest to just how easy the POC thing is, and there's no shame in watching them to learn from them.

The problem is that this is horribly communicated in game.  You'll seemingly randomly get these low multiplier things around and there is no indication that the POC is at all related to this.  Explaining your gimmick in play goes a HUGE way to understanding it.  I just really hated how it was presented and how it interacted with gameplay. Also Seija's still just a textbook example of how to NOT make a boss in Touhou, bland patterns, the most cheap possible gimmick and just more enough it's ugly shots and patterns.  Stage 5s should have beauty Seija had... like If you took away the control screw gimmick those patterns would be expected from a Stage 1 Midboss!

And see my only danmaku type games I've ever played is Touhou and more and more I just find the gimmicks really lame.  Hell I forgot that Trance really is a gimmick because of how rarely I use it (9/10 times it's just because it's the death drain which gets a 'Oh hey that trance thing is a thing')

But PCB and IN are just as heavy on the risk/reward gameplay as DDC... firstly, you have to PoC to get the extends, since they depend on number of items. Secondly, PCB gives you much more cherry for shooting unfocused, and to get borders at the right time you often have to plan them a long way in advance. IN has you shooting unfocused to gain time orbs, and often not shooting at all to wait for a good cancel.

Really, I like the fact that every game has its own unique gimmick; it's what makes them all different, and ensures that when I'm feeling frustrated with lack of progress in one game, I can have fun playing a different one. And each one tests and encourages me to improve a different aspect of play -- unfocused dodging, PoCing, grazing, timing and placing bombs (in MoF), etc. So I look forward to seeing what TH16 will have to offer :)

See just running through PCB and IN I'm getting near the 999 tier at the end of game which tells me I've hit the par level for progression. 

PCB's basic stuff with the barrier itself is incredibly good at explaining itself in play.  You can figure out  get pink boxes and you get this Cherry Barrier that starts big and shrinks down.  You'll likely have it pop automatically and get the point bonus. This tells you that it's got a limited lifetime and give bonus points if it runs out.  Eventually you'll get hit while it's active and discover the second property of it. Get hit with it up. You live and screen is cleared!  The final aspect I'll admit I didn't even known for a long time and that's detonating it like a bomb.  That might be found out by panic bombing while it's up. Dunno

With the Time Units thing... does it do ANYTHING? No really I've never had TIME OVER in a run that I didn't use a continue on.  Is it a points thing? Because if it's only points (and number of last words Kaguya spams out at the end, which is just bonus points) then it's just utterly ignorable.

I kinda hate the gimmicks he's been pushing lately. It's just been a bunch of bad gimmicks in a row.  I shouldn't be punished for not grazing every single bullet like LoLK does (and they're ugly bullets too.  Why are LoLK's stages so ugly?)

For me, it was a combination of the songs themselves and the sound font used to make them. TD's sound font isn't as bad as that of DDC or LoLK, but it's not as good as UFO's, which wasn't as good as SA's.

For individual tracks themselves, though, there are a few in each game that are certainly good, but without the Hifuu CDs, Little Princess was literally the only song between the two games I could recall any part of without listening to it, and even that required forcing the OSt on myself a few times while at work. Everything else just...didn't stick. At all. Pristine Beat in particular was a massive disappointment in this regard given how highly it was being touted back in the day.

I imagine this is mostly a product of ZUN's musical tastes changing, so really, all I can reasonably hope for is a sound font that doesn't sound anything like anything after UFO.

(My comment was also generalized to the games on the whole - I love playing TD and feel like DDC and LoLK are outright chores - but that's a discussion for another thread.)

I hear you man.  Having to re-record LoLK's stage 1-2 like four times due to recorder and game fuckups (For some reason it kept doing strange things that just lead to the music of stage 1 just dragging on FOREVER while the game went to slide show mode) it was like kill me please.  I'm kinda in the same boat as I've tried to make my self listen through stuff like Doremy's theme and it's just... "This doesn't feel like a theme for someone like Doremy". It's a weird feeling about like how there is this weird disconnect in the times I've watched replay against her to look at her cards.  I can't figure it out.

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 01:53:15 pm
The problem is that this is horribly communicated in game.  You'll seemingly randomly get these low multiplier things around and there is no indication that the POC is at all related to this.  Explaining your gimmick in play goes a HUGE way to understanding it.

You know what else goes a huge way to understanding it? Reading the forums or the wiki and watching replays. I guess if you lived in a cabin with no internet access and the games were hand delivered to you, this complaint would make sense. All the information you need is not only there, it's trivially easy to access. Make use of it, it'll reduce all this stress by a long ways.

Really, I like the fact that every game has its own unique gimmick; it's what makes them all different, and ensures that when I'm feeling frustrated with lack of progress in one game, I can have fun playing a different one. And each one tests and encourages me to improve a different aspect of play -- unfocused dodging, PoCing, grazing, timing and placing bombs (in MoF), etc. So I look forward to seeing what TH16 will have to offer :)

This, a thousand times. Game after game of "dodg bulit shoot n bom" would get boring af really fast. Even Seija's spellcards, as maddening as they are, are at least relevant to Seija the character, and her whole aim of turning the established order on its head. That shows a tremendous amount of creativity and makes the games fun. I honestly do not understand why anyone would want to reduce Touhou to a very narrow set of parameters. But I guess for those folks, the option is always there to just ... stop playing Touhou I guess.

For me, it was a combination of the songs themselves and the sound font used to make them. TD's sound font isn't as bad as that of DDC or LoLK, but it's not as good as UFO's, which wasn't as good as SA's.

For individual tracks themselves, though, there are a few in each game that are certainly good, but without the Hifuu CDs, Little Princess was literally the only song between the two games I could recall any part of without listening to it, and even that required forcing the OSt on myself a few times while at work. Everything else just...didn't stick. At all. Pristine Beat in particular was a massive disappointment in this regard given how highly it was being touted back in the day.

I imagine this is mostly a product of ZUN's musical tastes changing, so really, all I can reasonably hope for is a sound font that doesn't sound anything like anything after UFO.

(My comment was also generalized to the games on the whole - I love playing TD and feel like DDC and LoLK are outright chores - but that's a discussion for another thread.)

Yeah have to agree with you about the music in a general sense. IN to my mind has the best soundtrack in the series, stage after stage. Not because of their technical expertise or bells and whistles but because the melodies are simply memorable and fit the mood of the stage. I'd really like a return to that.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: 7TC7 on April 21, 2017, 01:55:24 pm
Something interesting I haven't seen noticed yet: Reimu's bonus options seem to be Aya's crows.

http://i.imgur.com/1t5pI2A.png

(https://twitter.com/drakeirving/status/855387104632811521)

That would explain, why they shoot Aya's shots, at least.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on April 21, 2017, 01:58:18 pm
It is true that, with zero prior knowledge or explanation, very few of the Touhou mechanics or extend/scoring systems are immediately intuitive. But that's a game design problem that's hit-or-miss in a lot of shmups.

A new player can only go so far without learning essential mechanics like grazing, PoC collection, unique gimmicks etc.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on April 21, 2017, 02:04:13 pm
Something interesting I haven't seen noticed yet: Reimu's bonus options seem to be Aya's crows.

(http://i.imgur.com/1t5pI2A.png)

(https://twitter.com/drakeirving/status/855387104632811521)
Someone I know said these bonus options are created by filling up the lower-left meter.

(Some data comparison they did.)
(http://wx1.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/5012403dly1feum6ucz5oj20xx02p3zc.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 02:10:55 pm
It is true that, with zero prior knowledge or explanation, very few of the Touhou mechanics or extend/scoring systems are immediately intuitive, especially when compared to other shmups.

It's something I've been appreciating more is how intuitive information giving can be kind of amazing.

Tengukami's argument might hold up more for stuff like Minecraft* (there ain't no documentation in game that even gives the slightest idea that something like a TNT cannon is even possible) but Touhou's not a game you can play with the wiki in your lap. And if the answer to all the problems is "Go to the Forum" or "Go to the Wiki" then you've kinda failed to explain your games mechanics.  The instructions that they give you in some of the newer games might help but pure text doesn't help that much in an extremely visual focused game like Touhou. 

I'll admit massively that a number of games I play are fucking AWFUL at explaining themselves and what various things mean.  Which is why so many people won't play it or won't enjoy it because of just how much out of game information is needed and how bad the bar of entry is for understanding mechanics is.

*I originally thought of Dwarf Fortress but that game is so difficult to figure out as a new player that it's pretty much mandatory to have the wiki open to do anything.

Edit:  At least newer games also point out POINT OF COLLECTION at the start of the  game which gives an idea but the gimmicks are often rather obtuse and that also makes it just not fun to learn.

Also actively grazing is not a needed skill... passive grazing is fine.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 21, 2017, 02:16:50 pm
These games come with a manual...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Gray21oh on April 21, 2017, 02:18:28 pm
Someone I know said these bonus options are created by filling up the lower-left meter.

(Some data comparison they did.)
(http://wx1.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/5012403dly1feum6ucz5oj20xx02p3zc.jpg)

Huh. And here I am thinking it could relate to a team up mechanic. I suppose it would be pretty far fetched for the game to suddenly pull that out on someone though it's really something I really can't wait to see more action from.

Also a bit unrelated and late, I can't get over how Cirno is freakin' tanned.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 21, 2017, 02:18:40 pm
I just noticed that Reimu's face in the title screen is the same as Junko's in-game portrait in LoLK, right down to that head tilt...

Looks like Reimu did bring something back with her from the moon...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 02:19:10 pm
Someone I know said these bonus options are created by filling up the lower-left meter.

(Some data comparison they did.)
(http://wx1.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/5012403dly1feum6ucz5oj20xx02p3zc.jpg)

Ah, this is shaping up to be really interesting. I like how the fandom seems to work out so many of the details before the trial version is even out!

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 21, 2017, 02:20:20 pm
I kinda hate the gimmicks he's been pushing lately. It's just been a bunch of bad gimmicks in a row.  I shouldn't be punished for not grazing every single bullet like LoLK does (and they're ugly bullets too.  Why are LoLK's stages so ugly?)
Well, I can't imagine that 16 main games with the absolutely same and most basic mechanics without any specialties regarding a game's plot or an individual character's abilities and personality are something that would have built up such a considerable fan community and inspire so many derivative works, of which one you're even playing.

I won't debate your general opinion, but in all honesty, I don't think that it would be any fun from a long-term perspective if all main games were absolutely identical mechanic-wise.

It's something I've been appreciating more is how intuitive information giving can be kind of amazing.

Tengukami's argument might hold up more for stuff like Minecraft* (there ain't no documentation in game that even gives the slightest idea that something like a TNT cannon is even possible) but Touhou's not a game you can play with the wiki in your lap. And if the answer to all the problems is "Go to the Forum" or "Go to the Wiki" then you've kinda failed to explain your games mechanics.  The instructions that they give you in some of the newer games might help but pure text doesn't help that much in an extremely visual focused game like Touhou. 

I'll admit massively that a number of games I play are fucking AWFUL at explaining themselves and what various things mean.  Which is why so many people won't play it or won't enjoy it because of just how much out of game information is needed and how bad the bar of entry is for understanding mechanics is.

Edit:  At least newer games also point out POINT OF COLLECTION at the start of the  game which gives an idea but the gimmicks are often rather obtuse and that also makes it just not fun to learn.

Also actively grazing is not a needed skill... passive grazing is fine.
Either you gotta figure them out yourselves or get help from more experienced people. The Touhou Wiki actually has plenty of explanation about the gameplay of each main game. Explanations can actually helpful if you understand and try them out. Honestly now, figuring out a game's mechanics is part of playing it, and the Touhou shmups belong to the simpler games that exist out there. The more you play a game, the more you'll know about its respective mechanics and gimmicks. Blaming the game's mechanics if you lack patience and motivation to learn it is..., well, I hate to say it, really pathetic. Just stop playing them if they're not fun for you.

I just noticed that Reimu's face in the title screen is the same as Junko's in-game portrait in LoLK, right down to that head tilt...

Looks like Reimu did bring something back with her from the moon...
I've been thinking this as well. The adventure to Junko seems to have left its marks on her.

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on April 21, 2017, 02:25:38 pm
The majority of people would rather receive everything for free. This isn't relevant. Comparing it to a movie trailer would only be valid if trailers were like the first half of the movie.

I mean, just wait for the full version and buy it I guess. This is such a weird, entitled complaint.
Wow, people want to not pay for things. Good for them?
First off, I am NOT complaining.  Please refrain from jumping to conclusions.  I hate it when people do that or misunderstand me.

Second, if people can get a good deal out of paying, then they are willing to do so.  If you go to the grocery and come across a food sample, will you still want to try it out if you must pay just to taste one?  Paying as little as possible sounds nice, but if the quality is low as a result of the cheap price, then it's more worth it to buy the more expensive one instead, as the quality and quantity make up for it.

Well, I can't imagine that 16 main games with the absolutely same and most basic mechanics without any specialties regarding a game's plot or an individual character's abilities and personality are something that would have built up such a considerable fan community and inspire so many derivative works, of which one you're even playing.

I won't debate your general opinion, but in all honesty, I don't think that it would be any fun from a long-term perspective if all main games were absolutely identical mechanic-wise.
That is why you cannot satisfy anyone with gameplay mechanics.  Make something new, and people will complain that you are ruining a good thing that doesn't need to be change.  Make no changes, and some other will complain that you are being unoriginal and lack innovation.

Personally, adding new mechanics and gimmicks is a good thing in order to make things fresh.  As similar as 2D Mario games are, each of them still throw in a couple of new mechanics in order to offer new gameplay experiences.

And what gimmick did DDC have?  That game is very straightforward from what I've played.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on April 21, 2017, 02:28:06 pm
Addenum to the previous post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1334689.html#msg1334689):

Zhang can also be another ancient Chinese artifact: the handle of a jade ladle, used to pour a sacrificial wine on the ground. However these things are all too old for us to know how exactly they were used. For all we know, the handle and the scepter may be one and the same.

Itsuari (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/855376047444860928) further suggests this can potentially connect the story to a currently ongoing plot thread in Touhou: the Gensokyoan mythology of the Big Dipper as the ultimate youkai - a heavenly dragon, threatening to swallow the light of Polaris.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 02:38:17 pm
These games come with a manual...

Which is in Japanese...

----------

I'd be fine with the mechanics staying the same.  Outside the smoothing out some odd problems of how PoC worked and some bad hitboxes along the problem of the games having a bad habit of needing Vsynch patches or running wild to use full CPU power.

And DDC's gimmick was the get giant blob of stuff by PoC or get nothing resource gimmick.

Either you gotta figure them out yourselves or get help from more experienced people. The Touhou Wiki actually has plenty of explanation about the gameplay of each main game. Explanations can actually helpful if you understand and try them out. Honestly now, figuring out a game's mechanics is part of playing it, and the Touhou shmups belong to the simpler games that exist out there. The more you play a game, the more you'll know about its respective mechanics and gimmicks. Blaming the game's mechanics if you lack patience and motivation to learn it is..., well, I hate to say it, really pathetic. Just stop playing them if they're not fun for you.

If your mechanics are so bad that there is NO incentive to play or learn then it IS the fault of the game for being extremely poor at explaining itself or being new player friendly enough to have them want to show up again.   And the wiki's often are not helpful at fully helping to explain itself. 

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 21, 2017, 02:39:35 pm
Which is in Japanese...

Well, yes, since the primary language of the game's intended audience is Japanese.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 02:41:46 pm
Well, yes, since the primary language of the game's intended audience is Japanese.

Indeed and that tends to not get translated.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 21, 2017, 02:44:42 pm
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Double_Dealing_Character/Translation#Manual
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom/Translation#Manual

?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 21, 2017, 02:51:02 pm
And the in-game manual is usually translated and added to thcrap shortly after the trial versions are released.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 02:54:47 pm
And the in-game manual is usually translated and added to thcrap shortly after the trial versions are released.
See Thcrap is something that's an ipsec nightmare (seriously javascript injectors is just a massive NO) so I don't touch it. If they ever made real translation patches anymore...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 21, 2017, 02:56:23 pm
jeez you've got an excuse for everything
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 02:57:33 pm
jeez you've got an excuse for everything

It's not an excuse when it's a fact that thcrap is garbage.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 21, 2017, 02:59:07 pm
So, uh, just to be clear, it's not that the games have failed to explain their mechanics, it's that everyone along the way have done the best they can and provided translations in multiple locations and your personal preferences simply don't like any of those locations? o_O

I mean, if that's the case, then okay, you do you, but that seems like good enough motivation for someone like you to work on a static translation patch. If it's not the case, though, then I'm genuinely confused as to what you're trying to get at here.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 21, 2017, 02:59:32 pm
I'd be fine with the mechanics staying the same.

If your mechanics are so bad that there is NO incentive to play or learn then it IS the fault of the game for being extremely poor at explaining itself or being new player friendly enough to have them want to show up again.   And the wiki's often are not helpful at fully helping to explain itself.
If the game's mechanics are as bad as you're claiming, then no one would've bothered playing it in the first place, which clearly is not the case if you go to sites like YouTube. Easy mode and stage practice exist for reasons.
The Wiki does provide elaborate explanations on each game's mechanics. The only conclusion I could draw here is that you either don't really bother reading them at all or are hesitating too much to try them out in the respective game. Each game explains its mechanics to you through playing it, and if you don't do that, it's no wonder that you're complaining so much about them being too complex. It is none of the game's fault if you don't have the motivation to actively practice and understand them.

See Thcrap is something that's an ipsec nightmare (seriously javascript injectors is just a massive NO) so I don't touch it. If they ever made real translation patches anymore...
THcrap is a translation patch too. That's a fact. Only difference is that it is continuously updated with revised translations.

It's not an excuse when it's a fact that thcrap is garbage.
That's what you think. Otherwise no one would use that as well, which is also not the case.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 03:06:41 pm
jeez you've got an excuse for everything

The Wiki does provide elaborate explanations on each game's mechanics. The only conclusion I could draw here is that you either don't really bother reading them at all or are hesitating too much to try them out in the respective game. Each game explains its mechanics to you through playing it, and if you don't do that, it's no wonder that you're complaining so much about them being too complex. It is none of the game's fault if you don't have the motivation to actively practice and understand them.

dingdingding

So, uh, just to be clear, it's not that the games have failed to explain their mechanics, it's that everyone along the way have done the best they can and provided translations in multiple locations and your personal preferences simply don't like any of those locations? o_O

I mean, if that's the case, then okay, you do you, but that seems like good enough motivation for someone like you to work on a static translation patch. If it's not the case, though, then I'm genuinely confused as to what you're trying to get at here.

You can also completely disable the online aspect of thcrap once you translate the game, rendering the patch static.

I think we're done chasing the ever-moving goalposts here.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on April 21, 2017, 03:15:03 pm
See Thcrap is something that's an ipsec nightmare (seriously javascript injectors is just a massive NO) so I don't touch it. If they ever made real translation patches anymore...
Thcrap is not a JavaScript injector. Like with the game mechanics, this sounds like another case of not wanting to research.
I'm a pretty security conscious guy. I've even looked at the source code for thcrap a little bit.
A static patch has patch data (text, images, diffs) in its installer. Thcrap downloads patch data from online repositories and into a local browseable folder These online repositories are as secure as any other website on the internet.
A static patch edits the game at patch install time. Thcrap simply edits the game at game launch time.
Thcrap is totally fine, software-wise. There are other legitimate reasons to not use it, but you haven't brought those up.
Also this is a Touhou 16 thread, I'm not sure how much longer we can keep this discussion going.
I think we're done chasing the ever-moving goalposts here.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 03:19:34 pm
I'm a pretty security conscious guy. I've even looked at the source code for thcrap a little bit.

Yeah, same, and I was even one of the more vocal (read: annoying) opponents of thcrap initially. After opening it up and looking at it, though, I honestly haven't found a single problem with it security wise. And again, if you wanted to be REALLY super careful, you could always just disable the online function post-patching.

Which is relevant to anyone wondering if they should use thcrap for Touhou 16, the subject of this thread.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 03:23:46 pm
Thcrap is not a JavaScript injector. Like with the game mechanics, this sounds like another case of not wanting to research.
I'm a pretty security conscious guy. I've even looked at the source code for thcrap a little bit.
A static patch has patch data (text, images, diffs) in its installer. Thcrap downloads patch data from online repositories and into a local browseable folder These online repositories are as secure as any other website on the internet.
A static patch edits the game at patch install time. Thcrap simply edits the game at game launch time.
Thcrap is totally fine, software-wise. There are other legitimate reasons to not use it, but you haven't brought those up.
Also this is a Touhou 16 thread, I'm not sure how much longer we can keep this discussion going.

Weird as I stumbled upon something tied to it which was just filled with .js files and presumed it was a .js injector.  I'd rather it be a purely static patch. 

And why is it online by default?  You had to last time I checked to into .ini files to turn online mode off instead of it being an installer option of I do not want online mode EVER.  Static patches  are just infinitely superior to the always online checking of Thcrap.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 21, 2017, 03:29:48 pm
There was a call for dynamic patches because Touhou went many years with static patches that contained overly liberal translations and/or outright mistranslations. (Among other notable examples, Ranmilia had a great post on SomethingAwful a few years ago lamenting his "Now, bitch, get out of the way!" decision for IN.) We accepted it at the time because (a) we didn't know better, and (b) we were desperate for anything we could get - things like BAiJR and PMiSS took forever to get translated simply because no one was around to work on them - but now that those concerns have been addressed by the rocketing number of quality translators, many people want accurate translations above all else. This more or less requires multiple passes by multiple translators to get everything "right", which an immediate static patch would not take into account.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 03:34:37 pm
There was a call for dynamic patches because Touhou went many years with static patches that contained overly liberal translations and/or outright mistranslations. (Among other notable examples, Ranmilia had a great post on SomethingAwful a few years ago lamenting his "Now, bitch, get out of the way!" decision for IN.) We accepted it at the time because (a) we didn't know better, and (b) we were desperate for anything we could get - things like BAiJR and PMiSS took forever to get translated simply because no one was around to work on them - but now that those concerns have been addressed by the rocketing number of quality translators, many people want accurate translations above all else. This more or less requires multiple passes by multiple translators to get everything "right", which an immediate static patch would not take into account.

Or you avoid Go Fever and wait for the good translation before you put it out.  I know everyone's got the damn thing now but I can wait for an actual patch. 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on April 21, 2017, 03:38:16 pm
Weird as I stumbled upon something tied to it which was just filled with .js files and presumed it was a .js injector.  I'd rather it be a purely static patch. 

And why is it online by default?  You had to last time I checked to into .ini files to turn online mode off instead of it being an installer option of I do not want online mode EVER.  Static patches  are just infinitely superior to the always online checking of Thcrap.
The js contains data in JSON format. No JavaScript code is contained in those files.

Static patch: Download patch installer (which comes with patch data from X date), apply patch at install.
Thcrap: Download patch installer, patch installer downloads patch data from today's date, apply patch at game launch.
If you want a static patch, set up thcrap then rename thcrap_update.dll to disable online connectivity. Want a "newer patch version" later? Restore thcrap_update.dll, reconfigure, then rename again.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on April 21, 2017, 03:46:03 pm
Static patch: Download patch installer (which comes with patch data from X date), apply patch at install.
Thcrap: Download patch installer, patch installer downloads patch data from today's date, apply patch at game launch.
If you want a static patch, set up thcrap then rename thcrap_update.dll to disable online connectivity. Want a "newer patch version" later? Restore thcrap_update.dll, reconfigure, then rename again.

The fact I have to dig and rip out .dll files in itself is a massive flaw of thcrap.  By default it should NOT check for updates. If you're forced to rip out .dll files from a program then your program is fucked.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 03:53:34 pm
The fact I have to dig and rip out .dll files in itself is a massive flaw of thcrap.  By default it should NOT check for updates. If you're forced to rip out .dll files from a program then your program is fucked.

You make it sound like some monumental effort. The .dll is the function of a dynamic patch, so of course it's there by default. It takes literally 5 seconds to go into the thcrap directory and delete/rename the file. Jesus.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 21, 2017, 03:55:39 pm
I must confess, the willingness to wait for "the good translation" (which is a nebulous concept in and of itself) is rather incongruous with the unwillingness to take the time to rename a single file.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 03:59:09 pm
I must confess, the willingness to wait for "the good translation" (which is a nebulous concept in and of itself) is rather incongruous with the unwillingness to take the time to rename a single file.

YUUUP. Five seconds vs. who knows how long.

Anyways, I think there's no getting to a satisfactory point here. There's always going to be an excuse.

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 21, 2017, 04:09:51 pm
The fact I have to dig and rip out .dll files in itself is a massive flaw of thcrap.  By default it should NOT check for updates. If you're forced to rip out .dll files from a program then your program is fucked.
I'm confused as for how you could consider that a flaw. Get the .dll file out if you don't want updates, get it in again if you want the translations revised, simple as that. It's designed to update every once in a while since new information could surface from unknown references or vocabulary in the dialogues and other texts in-game, especially between the demo and full release and particularly after the full release. Why shouldn't it do so? It's far more flexible that way.

Anyways, I think there's no getting to a satisfactory point here. There's always going to be an excuse.
This.
Let's get back to HSiFS-related discussions. I feel that this thread's going to derail if we keep this up too long.

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 21, 2017, 04:23:51 pm
Yes, I suppose this is enough discussion of the merits and drawbacks of various translation setups.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on April 21, 2017, 04:25:12 pm
You know a person is biased when far a too many of their statements stem completely personal (and terribly unpopular) opinion, and no critique whatsoever can't be done without a "Well, -I- think".  Kinda unpleasant.

That being said, back to the new touhou game!

I'm so surprised even in her profile she's being called Tanned Cirno.  Part of me makes me wonder if there'll be some deeper meaning behind this or if it's just a new  joke. 

That being said, makes me think how exactly will the shottypes work.  Reimu and Aya seem to have the same the same yellow bullets, but from Cirno's SS you can see that selecting a single character is a thing (In other words, teams are unlikely unless it's like IN where you can play either as a team or as a solo character - even if iirc you could only unlock solos after beating extra or something). 

also hot dang after you guys mentioned it I too noticed Reimu's gohei is huuuge
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 21, 2017, 04:26:58 pm
Jimmy said it well along with many others. Time to get back to the show folks. If you feel like continuing the discussion anyway, then you're always welcome to open the specific threads in one of the fitting forum sections. Or perhaps you want to take it more 'live' by discussing it on IRC? Plenty of opportunities.

Also I personally trust the community is capable of handling derailing most of the time. Cut by 2 people :V

Edit:
Drake had linked this on IRC and had to laugh out loud at work (partially shown, see link below for full. Artist twitter = NSFW, be warned)
(http://i.imgur.com/ScXswXM.png)
Source: https://twitter.com/keta_icetea/status/855083312477372417    Warning, this artist is NSFW / R-18.

異変だァ!!!  It is an incident!!!
うぐうっ!!!  Gah!!!
  (how does one even translate うぐうっ English sometimes...) 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Maple on April 21, 2017, 04:36:16 pm
Someone I know said these bonus options are created by filling up the lower-left meter.

(Some data comparison they did.)
(http://wx1.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/5012403dly1feum6ucz5oj20xx02p3zc.jpg)

What is the name in red at the end of Marisa's row? It's in Chinese, i could only see the 多 as in Kogasa's surname but it's not Kogasa.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 21, 2017, 04:40:19 pm
Drake had linked this on IRC and had to laugh out loud at work (partially shown, see link below for full. Artist twitter = NSFW, be warned)
(http://i.imgur.com/ScXswXM.png)
Source: https://twitter.com/keta_icetea/status/855083312477372417    Warning, this artist is NSFW / R-18.

異変だァ!!!  It is an incident!!!
うぐうっ!!!  Gah!!!
  (how does one even translate うぐうっ English sometimes...) 

Clearly this gohei is going to be used as a perch for the various crows she'll collect as she travels.

Is this not obvious???

I'm so surprised even in her profile she's being called Tanned Cirno.  Part of me makes me wonder if there'll be some deeper meaning behind this or if it's just a new  joke.

This will be an alterego Cirno; she'll think she's quite weak, but will be the literal strongest.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 21, 2017, 04:40:41 pm
The last several games (definitely by UFO, arguably as far back as MoF) have been very "abuse the system to gain an absurd number of resources, bomb (or trance) to get even more resources, then cheese the hardest parts with your absurd number of lives/bombs". TD was admittedly less focused on this than UFO/GFW/DDC/LoLK, but the whole "10 seconds of powerful invincible mode" made the "cheese the harder parts" bit still there.

Compare to the older games, where bombs and lives were much more finite resources, so you had to be careful and save them for when you really needed them. Suiciding back then was much less of a valid option. Even in MoF and SA; you do get a ton of bombs, but making super risky decisions to get those bombs is probably not a good idea.

I'd personally like to see an "old style" game again. I very much like the "cheese everything for tons of resources"-type games, LoLK and GFW are two of my favorites in the series. It's just nice to take a breather from that kind of gameplay every now and then. And it'd be nice to have something new to take that breather with.

Though if it does turn out to be the kind of game I described I'm sure I'll still enjoy it a ton.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 21, 2017, 04:44:19 pm
Someone should draw Reimu partaking in the pole vault contest for Japan 2020 Olympics  with that Gohei
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 21, 2017, 04:45:07 pm
What is the name in red at the end of Marisa's row? It's in Chinese, i could only see the 多 as in Kogasa's surname but it's not Kogasa.
From what I could read, it's actually not a name, hence probably why it's written in red.
"多种可能" (duō zhǒng kě néng) can be translated into "There are multiple possibilities", given that we don't know anything specific about the game's mechanics yet.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Helepolis on April 21, 2017, 04:55:25 pm
Clearly this gohei is going to be used as a perch for the various crows she'll collect as she travels.
Crow Kebab. Sounds delicious!


Someone should draw Reimu partaking in the pole vault contest for Japan 2020 Olympics  with that Gohei
I had to do this:
(http://i.imgur.com/u1f8GPj.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 21, 2017, 04:57:36 pm
Masterpiece.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on April 21, 2017, 05:06:17 pm
Guess I was right to give Reimu a spear in my LP back who knows when :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 21, 2017, 05:10:16 pm
Clearly Reimu needs to use that long-ass gohei to spear someone in the head a la End of Evangelion. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Gondolin on April 21, 2017, 05:45:44 pm
Was starting to wonder when ZUN would speak about the new game he was working on. Super excited to see what HSiFS will bring!

I'd really love to see Yuuka make an appearance, if for no other reason than to get her some more interesting spellcards besides the two she has from PoFV.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: notext on April 21, 2017, 06:06:03 pm
Compare to the older games, where bombs and lives were much more finite resources, so you had to be careful and save them for when you really needed them. Suiciding back then was much less of a valid option. Even in MoF and SA; you do get a ton of bombs, but making super risky decisions to get those bombs is probably not a good idea.

Perfect Cherry Blossom let you max out the lives counter by the end of stage three while giving you four bombs per life, and that was the best game in the series.

I really admired ~*~the economy~*~ of DDC's design; it was essentially UFO without the ufos, encouraging you to collect large numbers of items for a big reward while relying on the POC and bombs to let you do so, rather than introducing a group of other collectibles. Remember that ZUN described that game as being somewhat back to basics as well, so it might be an idea of what to expect.

Wishlist:

- I hope the bullet vibration goes away, I hated that, it made things feel imprecise.
- No hard patterns using tiny pea bullets! Those were my least favourite parts of both TD and DDC's final bosses.
- More generally, I hope there isn't too much ui screw going on. I'm optimistic about this since there wasn't really any in LOLK, but I'd have liked DDC much more without it (and Seija wasn't the worst offender).
- The difficulty curve could probably be shallower; since TD I keep finding I need to step up the difficulty a level to keep the first few levels interesting, but then get frustrated by the game's latter half.

Beyond that, and on a more positive note, I've learned never to discount a Touhou game, because I've done that before, returned to the backlog years later and ended up loving them. Although maybe that just means I should go dark on Touhou until 2020 and then catch up.

I remember reading that ZUN focuses on what he sees as the weaknesses of his previous games when making a new one. I wonder what he thinks the weaknesses of LOLK were?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: WindyKitsune on April 21, 2017, 06:21:48 pm
16th Touhou is incoming, the journey continues, such a good news!

Seasons being one of main themes of this game reminds me a lot Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, especially because of Marisa complaining about the weather; seasons have been a background aspect of ZUN's games and it will be interesting to see how ZUN will develop the theme.
Tanned Cirno leaves me puzzled: it's an ice fairy and as expected effect she should melt/weaken, instead she is tanned >:( ; ZUN has his own sense of humor (like Youmu is a sword expert and a gardener makes me think of Youmu cutting trees with her powerful swords :D) . indeed it will be a prolific source of fandom artworks.

Big hopes for the music, until now ZUN has never disappointed me (since EoSD to SA/SWR games)!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: teefa85 on April 21, 2017, 07:49:26 pm
Only a few screenshots and I'm definitely excited!  I'm also very interested to see what's up with Cirno and her awesome tan.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Failure McFailFace on April 21, 2017, 08:01:20 pm
Itsuari (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/855376047444860928) further suggests this can potentially connect the story to a currently ongoing plot thread in Touhou: the Gensokyoan mythology of the Big Dipper as the ultimate youkai - a heavenly dragon, threatening to swallow the light of Polaris.
Could you explain this? I've never heard of this plot thread. Is it from one of the mangas/books/OSTs/that official magazine?

Tanned Cirno leaves me puzzled: it's an ice fairy and as expected effect she should melt/weaken, instead she is tanned >:( ; Z
Yes, an ice fairy should melt by logic. But, Cirno at this point might be so powerful that she resists heat, and thus a tan. This might have been the case earlier, since in Hisotensoku, she falls into a freaking nuclear reactor and comes out unscathed.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 21, 2017, 08:17:55 pm
...Cirno is a fairy that represents ice... she isn't literally made of ice, you realize....?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: martelefort on April 21, 2017, 08:23:56 pm
Sneak profile pic change :D

From what i've seen in all the mangas, they only talk about dragons in CiLA, and it was mostly Rinnosuke making bullcrap theories. As for Cirno + summer, her power isn't shown to be weakened, but she can't stand the heat at all, and her wings seems to melt.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suspicious person on April 21, 2017, 08:41:40 pm
Could you explain this? I've never heard of this plot thread. Is it from one of the mangas/books/OSTs/that official magazine?
That'd be from WaHH, chapter 25. Read and see for yourself. It's pretty vague and open for interpretation for now. We're currently waiting to see if any future work is gonna cover it up and tie up the loose ends before having any serious and concrete discussion.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ふねん1 on April 21, 2017, 09:53:52 pm
Inb4 "you can't let yourself be trapped by common sense in Gensokyo" lol. I for one like the apparent contradiction of Tanned Cirno and am really curious what the background for it is in-story.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: nyttyn on April 21, 2017, 11:51:15 pm
IMO it's kind of making a fuss out of nothing because this isn't a "loose end." Tenryu, or the Celestial Dragon, is basically touhou's version of the Big Dipper, and it wants to devour the north star to gain control of the heavens. WaHH isn't the first time it comes up in the series (that'd be CoLA ch 22, which isn't one of Rinnosuke's usual nonsense theories since it's backed up by WaHH 25), and I think it's nothing more than world-building information as the timeline for it happening is really, really far in the future (thousands of years at the least). Even when it does happen it's somewhat outside of the scope of the series itself - the fate of the stars is something you'd find in Gurren Lagann. While it's vague as to what will happen when the north star is eaten, and that can be speculated on to kingdom come, I feel that it's an event completely outside of the scope of the series.

On the note of speculation...man, ZUN has so many great characters to draw back on for season based shenanigans. It's a tragedy that we'll see exactly none of them since even when it makes the utmost sense ZUN practically never brings back old characters for the mainline shuute games (ignoring Alice and Yuuka, we've gotten Cirno like 3 times, Yuyuko, Kogasa, and...uh, I think that's it?).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Karisa on April 22, 2017, 12:02:49 am
If by "old characters" you mean anyone from a previous game returning as a boss (seems like it since you mentioned Kogasa who was UFO-TD), there's also Nue (UFO-TD), Sanae (MoF-SA), Aya (PoFV/StB-MoF). All of them except Cirno and Yuyuko were from the previous game, though.

Also Reimu/Marisa in IN if you count that, though that was probably ZUN's method to give them non-bomb spell cards.

It would be surprising if a season-based game doesn't contain any of Lily White, Letty, or the Aki sisters (why is there no summer-based character?), even as a random midboss, but then... perhaps not that surprising?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: martelefort on April 22, 2017, 12:09:58 am
Yuuka is often used to represent summer, as there is not a " real " summer-theme character. Now we have Cirno for that. Maybe.

As someone said previously,Yuuka there as a boss would be great, but ZUN does his own thing i guess. I'd like to see her again though.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 22, 2017, 12:43:37 am
EDIT (to add quote):
Yuuka is often used to represent summer, as there is not a " real " summer-theme character. Now we have Cirno for that. Maybe.

As someone said previously,Yuuka there as a boss would be great, but ZUN does his own thing i guess. I'd like to see her again though.

EDIT: Wouldn't it be spring, with the sunflowers and all?

Anyways, I've got a feeling that there won't be a single mention of Yuuka, but we'll see...

EDIT-2: Also, this thread is real popular. 20-some guests viewing at the time of the edit. Wow.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 22, 2017, 12:48:56 am
EDIT-2: Also, this thread is real popular. 20-some guests viewing at the time of the edit. Wow.
Yep that tends to happen whenever a new game is announced or released.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Alrysc on April 22, 2017, 12:56:19 am
The seasons and a star, as well as this being a "return to roots"... Though it's unlikely, does anyone else think this might be somewhat similar to the 60-year cycle? Eiki explained it as being nature resetting (like this game being possibly like the earlier Windows games), and that it was 60 years because that's the four seasons times the three lights times the five phases. We know there are the four seasons, and the title has a star in it (unlikely, but perhaps the Swordsman of a Distant Star?). There are five stages before the final boss (five phases). That leaves the sun and moon. The Stage 4 bosses usually have some differences depending on the character, so what if characters relating to the sun and moon showed up for Cirno and Aya? Cirno is Summer, so the sun is for her, not to mention her sunflower. Aya is likely Autumn, and the Harvest Moon shows up during that season. (Okay at this point it sounds kind of flimsy, but I think I'm on to something.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 22, 2017, 01:14:02 am
Not at all, lol

As far as responses to the crow options thing, I'm personally leaning towards it being a system where your extra options change depending on that supposed season gauge. If each character represents a season then perhaps that's the relation.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 22, 2017, 01:29:39 am
The seasons and a star, as well as this being a "return to roots"... Though it's unlikely, does anyone else think this might be somewhat similar to the 60-year cycle? Eiki explained it as being nature resetting (like this game being possibly like the earlier Windows games), and that it was 60 years because that's the four seasons times the three lights times the five phases. We know there are the four seasons, and the title has a star in it (unlikely, but perhaps the Swordsman of a Distant Star?). There are five stages before the final boss (five phases). That leaves the sun and moon. The Stage 4 bosses usually have some differences depending on the character, so what if characters relating to the sun and moon showed up for Cirno and Aya? Cirno is Summer, so the sun is for her, not to mention her sunflower. Aya is likely Autumn, and the Harvest Moon shows up during that season. (Okay at this point it sounds kind of flimsy, but I think I'm on to something.)

I'd actually agree with you here... maybe. It's a little over my head here. I'd gladly take Konngara as a Windows boss. :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 22, 2017, 01:48:37 am
"なんだよ暑いじゃねーかこのヤロ "
"Why is it so hot? Goddang..."

Or something like that.

Well, yaroo means "bastard". Essentially, she's not pleased. XD

Just this one sentence of Marisa saying "bastard", and suddenly there's a spike in fanworks of her sprouting profanities like a modern day American teenager...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: mauve on April 22, 2017, 02:26:20 am
i vote komachi for random low stage boss

because it makes about as much sense as any other possibility given series history, really

and no, neither 'yarou' or 'kono yarou' means bastard, please throw your bad fansubs out, kisamas
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 22, 2017, 02:58:39 am
or maybe it'll be tenshi because they think she's toying with the weather again, temee
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: RedJewelBox on April 22, 2017, 03:12:25 am
I'm really excited for this! I didn't expect a new entry into the main series so soon.
It's always surprised me that conversations about past and future games seem to rather contentiously center themselves around mechanics as opposed to danmaku, although I suppose that phase of discussion begins when the demo has actually been released. Hopefully this game's supposed return to form involves that more than anything. In TD, DDC and LoLK everyone (aside from the Tsukumo sisters, Ringo, Doremy, and Junko - in my opinion, of course) seemed to make use of some surprisingly bland patterns. Hecatia was a specifically big disappointment, because even though I loved her theme and design to death, her spell cards, while challenging, put me to sleep conceptually.
Looking at the screen captures, more radial triangle bursts à la LoLK stages 1-3 seem to be on the horizon, somewhat disappointingly. Isn't there something a little suspicious about that one with Aya, though? What's the fairy in the upper left firing (or dropping)?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 22, 2017, 04:12:31 am
or maybe it'll be tenshi because they think she's toying with the weather again, temee

The final boss is always going to be a new face. That's normal Touhou tradition...
...Which you guys still cannot accept...

Why do people always think the final boss is going to be an old character despite every single instalment (save SoEW, Soku, STB, DS and ISC) having a brand new character as the final boss?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 22, 2017, 04:51:33 am
what part of "random low stage boss" did you not read

i don't think you know me very well if you assume i wouldn't know something so first-day basic as that
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 22, 2017, 04:57:22 am
what part of "random low stage boss" did you not read

i don't think you know me very well if you assume i wouldn't know something so first-day basic as that

Sorry about that. :X
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: commandercool on April 22, 2017, 05:10:18 am
I'm really looking forward to this as a jumping-back-on point to Touhou for me. I've been following Touhou closely and reading the manga this whole time, but LoLK basically scared me off from the main series games for a while with its sheer difficulty. I'm not expecting Touhou 16 to be easy necessarily, but I really hope it's not quite as rough as LoLK and maybe DDC were.

Meanwhile, the fanart this game has created has been fantastic so far. I normally don't especially care about Cirno, but Tan Cirno has inspired tons of gorgeous and/or cute art already and Mittens Marisa is fantastic as well. They're both really weird design calls that work surprisingly well.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on April 22, 2017, 05:16:39 am
It's always surprised me that conversations about past and future games seem to rather contentiously center themselves around mechanics as opposed to danmaku, although I suppose that phase of discussion begins when the demo has actually been released.
Danmaku generally gets lumped in with characters when it comes to discussing future games. Since we don't know any new characters, we can't really discuss new danmaku.

That being said, it'll be nice to have non-Pointdevice-oriented spellcards this time around.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on April 22, 2017, 05:24:25 am
what part of "random low stage boss" did you not read

i don't think you know me very well if you assume i wouldn't know something so first-day basic as that

That actually reminds me of that one time ZUN said he had Hijiri in mind as the ex boss of TD.

If he ever decides to put a recurring character as a major boss it'd be so weird tbh. x__x  Thankfully it's more than unlikely that it'll ever happen.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: SerB18 on April 22, 2017, 05:38:32 am
What a shame I was expecting Youmu to be playable again or make an apearance
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 22, 2017, 06:33:35 am
That actually reminds me of that one time ZUN said he had Hijiri in mind as the ex boss of TD.

If he ever decides to put a recurring character as a major boss it'd be so weird tbh. x__x  Thankfully it's more than unlikely that it'll ever happen.

I've always wondered about that. I feel like he would have meant Ex midboss, but I can't really verify.

My thinking being, Mamizou's been pretty important since she's been introduced, I find it kind of odd to think that she wasn't planned in advance...
Plus, Nue does seem kind of out of place as the ex midboss. She doesn't have much connection to the story, and her relationship with Mamizou hasn't been really acknowledged since Ten Desires. It kind of feels tacked on tbh, Byakuren would have worked just as well since it's her temple. And I could definitely see ZUN changing his mind at the last minute about who the ex midboss would be.

Though I'm just speculating. And I guess that doesn't have much to do with HSiFS :v
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 22, 2017, 11:58:37 am
her relationship with Mamizou hasn't been really acknowledged since Ten Desires
FS 30+31!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: dass on April 22, 2017, 02:40:38 pm
Welp, there goes that "human protagonists only in main games" trend! *evil laugh*
Reisen in LoLK.

Anyway I'm excited for this game, but the font on the title screen looks like it's from a fangame lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 22, 2017, 03:11:50 pm
Reisen in LoLK.

Anyway I'm excited for this game, but the font on the title screen looks like it's from a fangame lol.
I've been wondering about that too. Dug through the omake.txt files of the trial and full version again, former says that she's a human but was apparently changed back to moon rabbit in the latter, which is sort of confusing. But now we actually have two playables from whom we can be fairly sure they're not humans in any way, so that's certainly something new. Let's see what their profiles in the demo say, which I'm really looking forward to read mostly because of the backgrounds that got those two involved in a major arc.

It's been probably pointed out by someone else, but now that you say it, the font of the English title and menu looks sorta mechanical and unfitting for the general theme unless ZUN does a major plot twist  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Splashman on April 22, 2017, 03:14:38 pm
and no, neither 'yarou' or 'kono yarou' means bastard, please throw your bad fansubs out, kisamas

(http://i.imgur.com/YceF2TS.png)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


But I guess Marisa's line is more about "It's those annoying jerk's fault that it's so hot...", whoever those annoying jerks might be.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: N-Forza on April 22, 2017, 03:33:24 pm
You basically touched on it, but I think Mauve was trying to say that the Japanese word doesn't have the same gravity as the English word oft-chosen to represent it. I personally would not use any of those words listed in definition 2, but then again, I can only speak for myself.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: R. P. Genocraft on April 22, 2017, 04:01:58 pm
I don't know if I should be happy because new 2hu or sad because I was planning on a fangame based on seasons too...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 22, 2017, 04:05:09 pm
I've been wondering about that too. Dug through the omake.txt files of the trial and full version again, former says that she's a human but was apparently changed back to moon rabbit in the latter, which is sort of confusing.

This was explicitly stated to be a mistype. Reisen is NOT human in any way. (I was joking earlier when I said she, Aya, and Cirno were honorary humans).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 22, 2017, 04:12:58 pm
Ah, ok. Thanks for clearing up. I was only stating my confusion about Reisen's profiles in LoLK though.

So basically the "human protagonists only" trend was already broken by LoLK, now HSiFS is taking that even further.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 22, 2017, 04:17:34 pm
The only alternative I can think of for 'kono yarou' is "Curse you!", "Curse this (jerk/weather)!" and "Rats!" Dunno whether they are considered profanity or not.

I still don't think they are fitting but I gonna my share my idea anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Maple on April 22, 2017, 05:33:45 pm
Probably something to be defined by context. The previous or next sentence being either "dang it, incident" or "dang it, whoever made this incident".
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: mauve on April 22, 2017, 06:55:05 pm
I was wondering how long until someone decided to screencap a dictionary, confusing its definitions with actual translations. A dictionary is a vague categorization with no nuance whatsoever, a translation requires context because it is imparting meaning. And especially when it comes to Japanese translations, there is no such thing as a 1:1 mapping of meaning. At all. The meaning and _sort_ of term depends a lot on context. Which is the main issue with using dictionary translations in any sense, because, yeah there's like 8 similar words with different connotations. Which one are you picking? You can't just go "it's in there, it has to be right!" because you're automatically saying all the others are equally right. And as we all know words never have alternative contextual meanings (http://jisho.org/search/%E3%82%84%E3%82%8B).

So what happens if you look around for a native to define "kono yarou"? Fortunately we live in a high tech dystopia and Google can help us out. (http://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%22%E3%81%93%E3%81%AE%E9%87%8E%E9%83%8E%22+%E6%84%8F%E5%91%B3)

Take for example this famous clip (https://youtu.be/5k8989-tXEM?t=21) of an interview with a baseball player where he gets distracted by a heckler in the stands complaining that he can't hear the interview, and the player follows it with "kono yarou omae!" Since he's telling the heckler that, yeah, of course you can't hear it, he's talking to the mic, duh, an American would probably just say "you dumbass!" in the same context.

Like a lot of derogatory terms, intent matters.

K. So. Let's talk nuance here. Let's look at Marisa's line again.

Quote
なんだよ暑いじゃねーか
このヤロー!

When used like this, what is she trying to insinuate? よ is a clause ender, so it's disconnected and implies disbelief. 暑いじゃないか is a question, though: "Isn't it hot [out here]?" So she's directing that at someone. The implication here is that whoever she's cursing at is implying that it's not really hot. She could be pointing that at nobody in particular, or at a particular person/youkai/being, and it would change the implications a bit.

To phrase it in a similar way, if she said something like 溶けないか、このヤロー! to Cirno it'd be "This jerk just will not melt!" Expressing her frustration at Cirno not melting.

So, if directed as a person, "What the heck is with you?! It's totally hot out!" if I wanted to take the insult out of it while retaining the meaning.

And if directed at nobody, "What the heck! What idiot said it wasn't hot out?!"

tl;dr: It can't be helped.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Splashman on April 22, 2017, 08:16:45 pm
I was wondering how long until someone decided to screencap a dictionary, confusing its definitions with actual translations.
I did not confuse anything, I merely pointed out that "You bastard!" can very well be a correct translation, let's say in the context of a shounen action series like Jojo or Hokuto no Ken.

But you're absolutely right that too many bad translators and fansubs take the dictionary definition and misapply it in the wrong context. For example, in the wrong hands, Hecatia would be "Strange T-Shirt Bastard".
You explained the nuances better than I ever could, so I'll just rest my case here and wait until Reitaisai to see who or what this "yarou" really is.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shadowbringer on April 22, 2017, 09:34:14 pm
Cirno in summer is surely a balancing thing; she would be way overpowered if she could use her ice power in a game that wasn't designed around her being the only playable.

I wonder what Aya's shot-type will be like? Will she still have her camera power?

the shot freezing ability (and Aya's camera) could have a more limited availability (take longer to fill its own gauge to the max), with a bonus (optionally, for example, being able to use trance in TD without dying if you have all 3 trance gauges) for using it when it's full. In case these character-specific mechanics get implemented in the game, I wonder what would be Reimu's and Marisa's. Also wonder what their characteristics would be; Reimu is known for her default homing shots (in most games) and average speed, Marisa is known for her narrow piercing shots (or powerful shots, depending on the game) and speed, so I wonder how Cirno and Aya will be made different enough from them.

Also, Cirno sees more bullets than their actual amount in GFW (but somehow not in PoFV), and ZUN has also said something about returning to the basics before releasing MoF, yet the scoring system was different enough from the other games, so I don't think it's something I should worry about.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shadowbringer on April 22, 2017, 09:50:46 pm
This is what I was really worried about... 

Unless we're getting a Raiden style pick up powerups to choose shot type.  But I kinda don't know how to feel about it as Touhou and Raiden's core styles just are so different that doesn't make sense for the Genre as it'd bring back the UFO problem but even worse as with Raiden style games you pick up the other color and you're back to basic power IIRC.  Been ages since I've played one.

the first thing I thought about when I read "Raiden" was wrist pain (if you don't use autofire), then the second thing was about how awesome Raiden Fighters Jet is for me, because it has event chaining (event messages such as "Discovered the Fairy!", "Killed the Fairy!", "Quick Shot!", "Destroyed at a Time!" serve as temporary score multipliers) and medal combining (although only to access another medal mode, so, used pretty briefly), which reminded me of UFO (how your "options" in RFJ attract falling airborne medals towards it and then they're combined into a bigger medal).

Speaking of Raiden, I'm reminded of another game which was apparently meant to be a competitor to it, but was pretty much forgotten: Varth (which also can give wrist pain if you don't use autofire), however I like this game for a different reason (or at least, one of the reasons): collecting powerups (even point items) give you temporary invincibility, so it encourages the player to play more aggressively and trust his/her own timing for powerup collection (so to take advantage of the invulnerability period), and managing the bomb gauge (which regenerates itself over time).

I wonder how a TH game with medal chaining would look like.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Maple on April 23, 2017, 12:18:47 am
the shot freezing ability (and Aya's camera) could have a more limited availability (take longer to fill its own gauge to the max), with a bonus (optionally, for example, being able to use trance in TD without dying if you have all 3 trance gauges) for using it when it's full. In case these character-specific mechanics get implemented in the game, I wonder what would be Reimu's and Marisa's. Also wonder what their characteristics would be; Reimu is known for her default homing shots (in most games) and average speed, Marisa is known for her narrow piercing shots (or powerful shots, depending on the game) and speed, so I wonder how Cirno and Aya will be made different enough from them.

Also, Cirno sees more bullets than their actual amount in GFW (but somehow not in PoFV), and ZUN has also said something about returning to the basics before releasing MoF, yet the scoring system was different enough from the other games, so I don't think it's something I should worry about.

Consistent in the series.
Reimu -> Average speed either (high to) average-powered forward focused shot or (low to) average-powered homing shot.
Marisa -> High speed with narrow but high-powered shots.

We receive each game one or two shottypes that stand out both in their respective games and more often than not, the series in general (Sakuya's aimable knifes [PCB], Youmu's ghost half [IN] and sword slash
, Marisa's Cold Inferno and Spread Star [MoF], Reisen's barrier bomb, among others).

Expect a gimmicky shot. Also, that one will probably be the best one in terms of scoring.

Aya probably will be a high-speed shottype.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 23, 2017, 01:55:45 am
Consistent in the series.
Reimu -> Average speed either (high to) average-powered forward focused shot or (low to) average-powered homing shot.
Marisa -> High speed with narrow but high-powered shots.

We receive each game one or two shottypes that stand out both in their respective games and more often than not, the series in general (Sakuya's aimable knifes [PCB], Youmu's ghost half [IN] and sword slash
, Marisa's Cold Inferno and Spread Star [MoF], Reisen's barrier bomb, among others).

Expect a gimmicky shot. Also, that one will probably be the best one in terms of scoring.

Aya probably will be a high-speed shottype.


Wonderful.

(Sorry for not saying much, I just don't have much to say.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shadowbringer on April 23, 2017, 01:56:48 am
I have to say, I don't like seeing the 0/3 and 0/5 life/bomb pieces, but who knows, maybe we'll get something else from that now, probably related to that corner gauge.

I'd (probably) like it if you could use partial bombs (with proportional damage and invulnerability time) like in Battle Garegga/Armed Police Batrider (where bombs can be used for score; LLS is vaguely similar in that bombs collect onscreen point items and double their value); alternatively, some Cave games like ESP Ra De/ESP Galuda allow the player to spend more than one bomb's worth at a time (by holding down the bomb button, you increase the duration of invulnerability and strength of the bomb's attack)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shadowbringer on April 23, 2017, 02:34:10 am
When you think about it, story wise, it's a pretty interesting idea. I mean, putting two characters that fan oftenly associate a season(Aya/Reimu), while the other two are characters you wouldn't normally think with the season they represent(Marisa/Cirno). Marisa could be the complaining one, while Cirno would be the "wow, that weather's freaking cool" one with some funny lines.

It might be a faint wish, but I really hope Yuuka'll make an appearance. Boss 4, with different spell card depending the characters you play or the season. Since she's the flowermaster of four season, that could be a great opportunity for Yuuka to show off her flower power by the help of the four seasons, and for us to see beautiful battles !

speaking of four seasons, there's also Shikieiki, and if the incident involves seasons, some might be suspicious of Tenshi messing with weathers again. There are precedents for playable characters battling against the wrong perpetrators (Yuuka in PoFV, Yuyuko in PoDD TD lol).

I wonder if the game really has messed up seasons, if that's the case we could expect to see Letty, the Aki sisters and Lily White a couple times.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drayen on April 23, 2017, 02:59:54 am
Haha I knew we were around that time so i was checking his blog daily lately.

I really hope he goes back to the imperishable night style where you have to work to unlock last spells/last words, it gave the game so much replayability. Overdrives never cut it for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shadowbringer on April 23, 2017, 03:14:18 am
Actually my thought was the opposite.

Why not make all of them Red instead?

the way I see it, getting reds while not being at full power would become both the way to improve your survival chances and the way to obtain a higher score, and then, when you reach full power, either you play more safely (for higher survival chances) or not (for a higher score). Perhaps not having that small time window of getting to full power before collecting point items would be more fun (by not delaying them from getting more point items).

Outside score based extend-based  games score really doesn't mean anything.

this would be true for playstyles which focus on survival (or specific challenges such as no-bombs, spellcard captures, no-focus etc.), not on score (which often require riskier routes, riskier and more precise movements/positioning, prolonged exposition to dangers by milking patterns, use of resources for scoring, which means less resources available for survival, less room for mistakes).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Aeteas on April 23, 2017, 03:57:14 am
I'll post some random observations and theories I have after staring at the screenshots for the new game. A lot of these I noticed two days ago, but I didn't get around to posting anything. I don't expect them all to be right, but who knows?

From the logo, it's clear that spring is pink, summer is green, autumn is orange, and winter is blue. What else happens to use these colors? Lives, bombs, power, and PIV, respectively, which are positioned in the same order on the right side of the screen (similar to the last few games). I suspect this is not a coincidence, but we'll have to wait and see if there's actually some correspondence in the game system or if it's a purely aesthetic decision. He might just be using these colors because they look nice.

The symbols in the bottom left corner also have colors. Reimu's looks pink to me and Marisa's looks blue, which is in line with how most people are associating the characters and seasons. The symbol in the Aya screenshot looks greenish, so she's probably in summer mode. However, Cirno is already associated with summer. The symbols must be changeable in game, or there wouldn't be any point in putting something there. My theory is that using a bomb will advance the mode by one season. So Aya starts in autumn mode because she's associated with autumn, and after 3 bombs she ends up in summer mode.

Looking at the Marisa screenshot, she has three mini options trailing behind her. In the Reimu screenshot, she seems to have three mini crows following her, which I assume are mini Aya options. It's hard to tell because of the dark red background, but If you look closely at the Aya screenshot, I think there's a larger crow option next to Aya's head and a mini crow option a bit above that. Thus, there's some mechanic which allows each character to obtain mini options and these mini options can belong to other characters. No clue how this works though.

Speaking of Aya's option shot, it looks like the vertical space between the bullets gets wider as they go up the screen, so I suspect that they accelerate like Aya's EX attacks in PoFV. I also wonder if Aya has Gradius style options that follow her around. It's hard to tell. Reimu's option shots look like they change direction, so they're probably homing.

From all three gameplay screenshots, it looks like PIV gain is just a little more than three times the graze. I think this means that each graze is now worth 3 PIV, and bullet cancels are now worth relatively little. The Aya screenshot has bullet cancels from 2 bombs but still only has 30 PIV from 8 graze. Meanwhile both Reimu and Marisa presumably got a cancel from a midboss and their PIV gain is still only a little bit more than three times their graze.

On the title screen there's a rather conspicuous petal that's sort of magenta colored rather than light pink. There are petals of a similar color in the Aya screenshot. My guess is that it's some sort of seasonal energy, which charges up the gauge in the bottom left corner. I might be completely wrong about this one though since there's almost no basis for it.

I also have a hunch Lily White will appear. I'd be really amused if she appears to announce spring... and then she appears again later to announce spring a second time, since I assume the plot will be about the four seasons being in flux. I don't really think that will happen, but after Tanned Cirno, anything is possible.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Gondolin on April 23, 2017, 04:04:01 am
Haha I knew we were around that time so i was checking his blog daily lately.

I really hope he goes back to the imperishable night style where you have to work to unlock last spells/last words, it gave the game so much replayability. Overdrives never cut it for me.
Absolutely. IN probably has the most hours played of all the games for me as a result- certainly I wouldn't have bothered clearing Lunatic if it weren't a requirement for a last word, normal usually being enough of a challenge for me anyway.

I'd (probably) like it if you could use partial bombs (with proportional damage and invulnerability time)
This would be nice, but I wonder if it wouldn't mess with game balance. Take a situation where you get 10 bomb pieces over a span of time and are able to do 10 1-piece level bombs- I can't see 2 full damage bombs and screen clears being better than that, but maybe I'm misguided. In my own play at least, I'd prefer having death bombs that keep me alive rather than the damage and clear from a whole bomb, except in perhaps specific unusual circumstances.

That said, there are loads of ways you could make the above strategy less powerful. Curious what you/others think.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shadowbringer on April 23, 2017, 04:43:11 am
This would be nice, but I wonder if it wouldn't mess with game balance. Take a situation where you get 10 bomb pieces over a span of time and are able to do 10 1-piece level bombs- I can't see 2 full damage bombs and screen clears being better than that, but maybe I'm misguided. In my own play at least, I'd prefer having death bombs that keep me alive rather than the damage and clear from a whole bomb, except in perhaps specific unusual circumstances.

That said, there are loads of ways you could make the above strategy less powerful. Curious what you/others think.

one example of what I meant is at 5 minutes 5 seconds of this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VisS7_ROmYw#t=5m05s), when the player gets one bomb fragment (iirc, 20 fragments = one full bomb), which then shows up in the bottom-left corner, then bombs the airplanes (because they're worth more points if killed by bombs) while collecting bomb fragments; note that the bomb duration is short and not much damaging, compared to one full bomb (like the one used on the same stage's boss). In this game and Armed Police Batrider, bombs can also damage parts of stage backgrounds for points or to reveal medals (which are worth points), and some boss parts (and even destructible projectiles) are worth more points if destroyed by bombs. You can't choose how many bomb fragments to use when bombing on these two games, it's always one whole bomb, or all remaining fragments if you don't have one.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 23, 2017, 06:16:58 am
Also, Cirno sees more bullets than their actual amount in GFW (but somehow not in PoFV)
Just gonna mention this was likely just an improvised joke justification for FW Lunatic having such intense danmaku. I wouldn't really take it as a serious statement.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Marron on April 23, 2017, 11:47:18 am
speaking of four seasons, there's also Shikieiki, and if the incident involves seasons, some might be suspicious of Tenshi messing with weathers again. There are precedents for playable characters battling against the wrong perpetrators (Yuuka in PoFV, Yuyuko in PoDD TD lol).

I wonder if the game really has messed up seasons, if that's the case we could expect to see Letty, the Aki sisters and Lily White a couple times.

It would be logic to at least one of them as midboss. I really think we'll see at least one character link to a season, and I think it will be lily white. If that's the case, it would be great for her to have an spellcard or two, she finally would have a spellcard background and a picture of her by Zun ig.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 23, 2017, 05:52:12 pm
The half-baked theories of mine and others (in this thread):

So... yeah. Little early to be talking about story theories, suuure. If this needs to be cut and pasted into a different thread (in TARB, maybe?), let me know.

#1: Current consensus, whatever it may be. Something about some new character messing up the seasons. I'm not exactly sure, with the on-off story discussion in this thread.
#2: Something similar to the 60-year cycle. An earlier post to this thread explains this theory a bit better. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1335170.html#msg1335170)
#3: Konngara. ("Swordsman of a Hidden Star"...? Highly unlikely, due to Konngara being a PC-98 character.)
#4: Renko. I've heard around various fanfics, stories, and whatnot that Renko's ability is to use the stars as navigation. Connection? (Although this is extremely unlikely, since ZUN said this game will be a "return to the roots" and a "180 from previous works". But you never know.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on April 23, 2017, 08:53:55 pm
Well, from the past few games' experience the incident usually doesn't have to do directly to the culprit's actions or motives.

-In TD the spirits were just gathering on their own because Miko was revived
-in DDC the possessed weapons were a side effect of the mallet's power
-In LoLK the Lunarians were invading the earth because they were being under attack (and sending probes to Gensokyo before their invasion too, I believe?)

So if tradition sticks, there'll probably be a boss with some kind of ability like "Making planets change color" that somehow messed the seasons. 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 23, 2017, 09:31:54 pm
It is worth noting the incident of DDC wasn't just the possessed weapons. Youkai were acting oddly aggressive, which was caused directly by Shinmyoumaru and Seija in preparation for their revolution.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Maple on April 23, 2017, 09:32:35 pm
If that "return to roots" is in a gameplay sense, maybe the playable characters/shottypes will be measured with stars like in Story of Eastern Wonderland to Phantasmagoria of Flower View. Like

Quote
Reimu Type A
Movement Type (高機動タイプ)
Movement Speed: ★★★★★
Attack Range: ★★★★★
Attack Power: ★
Bomb Duration: ★★★
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 24, 2017, 01:16:52 am
If that "return to roots" is in a gameplay sense, maybe the playable characters/shottypes will be measured with stars like in Story of Eastern Wonderland to Phantasmagoria of Flower View. Like
(SNIP)

Well, from the past few games' experience the incident usually doesn't have to do directly to the culprit's actions or motives.
-In TD the spirits were just gathering on their own because Miko was revived
-in DDC the possessed weapons were a side effect of the mallet's power
-In LoLK the Lunarians were invading the earth because they were being under attack (and sending probes to Gensokyo before their invasion too, I believe?)
So if tradition sticks, there'll probably be a boss with some kind of ability like "Making planets change color" that somehow messed the seasons. 
It would be logic to at least one of them as midboss. I really think we'll see at least one character link to a season, and I think it will be lily white. If that's the case, it would be great for her to have an spellcard or two, she finally would have a spellcard background and a picture of her by Zun ig.




And the best part about all of this... is that we just don't know what'll happen until we get our hands on the demo. Wonderful.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2017, 02:54:41 am
The half-baked theories of mine and others (in this thread):

So... yeah. Little early to be talking about story theories, suuure. If this needs to be cut and pasted into a different thread (in TARB, maybe?), let me know.

#1: Current consensus, whatever it may be. Something about some new character messing up the seasons. I'm not exactly sure, with the on-off story discussion in this thread.
#2: Something similar to the 60-year cycle. An earlier post to this thread explains this theory a bit better. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1335170.html#msg1335170)
#3: Konngara. ("Swordsman of a Hidden Star"...? Highly unlikely, due to Konngara being a PC-98 character.)
#4: Renko. I've heard around various fanfics, stories, and whatnot that Renko's ability is to use the stars as navigation. Connection? (Although this is extremely unlikely, since ZUN said this game will be a "return to the roots" and a "180 from previous works". But you never know.)
If that "return to roots" is in a gameplay sense, maybe the playable characters/shottypes will be measured with stars like in Story of Eastern Wonderland to Phantasmagoria of Flower View. Like

Reimu Type A
Movement Type (高機動タイプ)
Movement Speed: ★★★★★
Attack Range: ★★★★★
Attack Power: ★
Bomb Duration: ★★★
i will bet anyone that thinks these things five dollars that they won't happen
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Alrysc on April 24, 2017, 03:57:56 am
i will bet anyone that thinks these things five dollars that they won't happen
Well, of course. Has any theory in the past been correct, or even close?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2017, 06:27:45 am
[flashbacks to speculation that nazrin was a cricket youkai]

LoLK's Pointdevice was almost correctly described (without IWBTG resets) before the demo was released. Lunarian involvement and even that Jouga/Chang'e was somehow relevant was speculated. The game having something to do with seas (and specifically the lunar seas) was also poked at, but that was only coincidentally because kanju can also refer to the tide jewels in Shinto folklore.

A couple of people predicted tsukumogami characters in DDC. ZUN gave away that the tools were acting on their own so the shot type system was also guessed.

(of course there was a ton of speculation that was nowhere even close)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on April 24, 2017, 07:22:35 am
[flashbacks to speculation that nazrin was a cricket youkai]


Honestly it's a real darn shame there was no slightly-blurred-midboss-sprite in this game's preview screenshots, it's always tons of fun to check places like pixiv and see what interpretations people have for those designs. 

 Like that one boss from WnSP who's basically the artist's rendition of Sekibanki from DDC's preview screenshot (https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/6/61/WNSP_Uka.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PK on April 24, 2017, 08:54:06 am
I wonder if the intense heat that is apparently going on will lead to Utsuho as stage 1 boss like Yuyuko.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 24, 2017, 09:54:18 am
I had a thought about that screenshot of Marisa's dialog. Assuming that the seasons-shenanigans is even remotely similar to the hijinks of the weather in SWR, could it be that the other playables are potential bosses in the game? What if Marisa complaining about the heat means Summer is overpowering her own season, and she must fight Cirno to win her influence back?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 24, 2017, 10:55:34 am
I had a thought about that screenshot of Marisa's dialog. Assuming that the seasons-shenanigans is even remotely similar to the hijinks of the weather in SWR, could it be that the other playables are potential bosses in the game? What if Marisa complaining about the heat means Summer is overpowering her own season, and she must fight Cirno to win her influence back?


Then that means my thought could be more correct. It was 6 games between Dimensional Dream and Flower View... it's 7 games between Flower View and Four Seasons. Coincidence? I think not.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on April 24, 2017, 08:29:14 pm
So it just dawned on me that, if Reimu is using Aya's shots and options, this game might be an extension of AoCF's story, what with the perfect possession thing and all.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Maple on April 24, 2017, 09:12:40 pm
This is important (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RnmFjjZqZQ)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 24, 2017, 10:43:59 pm
This is important (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RnmFjjZqZQ)


I saw that two days ago lol


and you made me click on it again  :trollface:
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Gondolin on April 24, 2017, 11:32:31 pm
This is important (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RnmFjjZqZQ)

Now I won't be able to help but think of Cirno whenever I hear the Pillar Men Awaken track. And I'm not sure what to think of that
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 25, 2017, 06:59:10 am
Now I won't be able to help but think of Cirno whenever I hear the Pillar Men Awaken track. And I'm not sure what to think of that

kars' laugh except it's cirno instead as she makes her way tew conquer the sun.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 25, 2017, 10:44:09 am
kars' laugh except it's cirno instead as she makes her way tew conquer the sun.


i don't get that


 ??? ???   :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 26, 2017, 12:13:08 am

i don't get that


 ??? ???   :derp:

this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unuadNjSbRw) except imagine cirno's face over kars' (the character laughing) face.

the joke is that tanned cirno is probably conquering the sun, and in JoJo, kars is an antagonist that has the same goal of conquering the sun. he is known for his laugh.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 26, 2017, 10:10:23 am
this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unuadNjSbRw) except imagine cirno's face over kars' (the character laughing) face.

the joke is that tanned cirno is probably conquering the sun, and in JoJo, kars is an antagonist that has the same goal of conquering the sun. he is known for his laugh.


oh. I've never watched JoJo... or any real anime, for that matter.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Xeno on April 26, 2017, 01:07:33 pm
This is important (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RnmFjjZqZQ)

Has anyone else noticed since Tan Cirno's reveal that racist comments have been appearing more often within the western fandom? People either saying n-Cirno or n-rino? I imagine its even worse on Warosu /jp/ or /v/

Its really vile.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 26, 2017, 01:37:12 pm
Has anyone else noticed since Tan Cirno's reveal that racist comments have been appearing more often within the western fandom? People either saying n-Cirno or n-rino? I imagine its even worse on Warosu /jp/ or /v/

Its really vile.

Yeah, it is pretty bad on /jp/. Troglodytes from /pol/ have wended their way into TH16 discussion threads. They're still pretty mad at ZUN about "Alternative Facts".
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Xeno on April 26, 2017, 02:22:21 pm
Yeah, it is pretty bad on /jp/. Troglodytes from /pol/ have wended their way into TH16 discussion threads. They're still pretty mad at ZUN about "Alternative Facts".

Yeah I figured as much as /jp/ (as well as other sections) is nothing but a cesspool of human trash (Not all users of course but you know what I mean~)  Also if you don't mind me asking, why are they mad about "Alternative Facts"? I just imported the book from Amazon Japan not too long ago~  :)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 26, 2017, 02:24:01 pm
Yeah I figured as much as /jp/ (as well as other sections) is nothing but a cesspool of human trash (Not all users of course but you know what I mean~)  Also if you don't mind me asking, why are they mad about "Alternative Facts"? I just imported the Lightnovel from Amazon Japan not too long ago~  :)

Because it makes fun of the Trump administration for coining that term.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: N-Forza on April 26, 2017, 02:26:25 pm
That's why I just don't visit 4chan anymore.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 26, 2017, 02:28:20 pm
That's why I just don't visit 4chan anymore.

Smart man.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 26, 2017, 02:35:54 pm
What's the point of that site anyway? It is confusing to navigate or find old topics, and full of annoying cuss-happy people.

Oh, I know! Garbage dump.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 26, 2017, 02:39:53 pm
What's the point of that site anyway?

(http://i.imgur.com/CnVevG2.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Rei Scarlette on April 26, 2017, 05:38:07 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/CnVevG2.gif)

Very accurately described, good sir, but I personally find this one to be even more fitting;

(http://i.imgur.com/ntcfoPl.gif)

I regret that, sadly, I have nothing more to really add to any conversation at the moment. Patiently awaiting and looking forward to all these new things recently announced, however.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Gpop on April 26, 2017, 06:07:58 pm
Yeah, it is pretty bad on /jp/. Troglodytes from /pol/ have wended their way into TH16 discussion threads. They're still pretty mad at ZUN about "Alternative Facts".
Boy it gets even worse for them if you read some of the stuff in the book, because man ZUN (through one of the interviews in the book that Aya conducts) is basically talking shit about a lot of Trump's policies and the alt-right movement in general, just in a way that Gensokyo has the same issues, but you can obviously see his hard stance on those issues (and he uses Aya as an example of presenting facts in hugely biased ways just to appeal to readers who only wants to hear what they want to hear and all).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: the old guy on April 26, 2017, 07:27:21 pm
Has anyone else noticed since Tan Cirno's reveal that racist comments have been appearing more often within the western fandom? People either saying n-Cirno or n-rino? I imagine its even worse on Warosu /jp/ or /v/

Its really vile.
In short, Anime fandom (Which the 2hu fandom overlaps with) has always been misogynistic and racist as hell. Partially because Japan is a very bigoted country that has had a long history of racism, sexism, and pedophilia, and also partially because most of it is centered in America, a country with a just as horrifically racist history as japan*, this has always naturally attracted a LOT of horrible human beings. Neo-Nazis, MRAs, Red Pillers, Lolicon fanatics, ect.

With fascism under going a rebirth (That i think will led to a new age of hatred and oppression not seen since WW2, but thats besides the point), its not surprising alot of horrible people are saying and horrible shit about Touhou, alot of people are very angry at ZUN for promoting pro-immigration views in his works right now.

*Please note that i am NOT saying that all Japanese or all Americans are bigoted, just that hatred is a big problem in those countries. There are absolutely other countries that have just as much problems with those issues, but those countries aren't really relevant right now.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ZM on April 26, 2017, 07:50:14 pm
Boy it gets even worse for them if you read some of the stuff in the book, because man ZUN (through one of the interviews in the book that Aya conducts) is basically talking shit about a lot of Trump's policies and the alt-right movement in general, just in a way that Gensokyo has the same issues, but you can obviously see his hard stance on those issues (and he uses Aya as an example of presenting facts in hugely biased ways just to appeal to readers who only wants to hear what they want to hear and all).

So basically they're mad at ZUN for being a respectful human being, unlike themselves?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kanade on April 26, 2017, 08:06:10 pm
As expected of alt-right. They have no respect for other people's opinion and anything that is against their ideology is just simply "liberal".

Back to the topic, I'm guessing the whole "180 turn" is making Cirno tanned?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 26, 2017, 09:09:59 pm
Has anyone else noticed since Tan Cirno's reveal that racist comments have been appearing more often within the western fandom? People either saying n-Cirno or n-rino? I imagine its even worse on Warosu /jp/ or /v/

Its really vile.
Yikes.

I guess I should've expected this happening sooner or later, good thing I didn't see a trace of any of that here and on YouTube :V
Hell, I already thought there'd be a backlash about that practically all Touhou characters have only fair skin colors
This is all still really disgraceful to see, of course.

If I could wish something, then that'd be people finally stop crying over skin colors and ethnical differences, geez. This is getting out of hand.


Anyway, thinking about this now, I wonder what exactly did make Cirno's skin tan? I'm also really amused to see the reaction of all the people to this who've been led by the (mostly) fanon idea that Cirno melts in high temperatures. This would be quite the unexpected "180°" turn for many people out there, although I did see Cirno lying in a puddle all exhausted in a VFiS chapter (I don't exactly remember which one though).


Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 26, 2017, 09:12:23 pm
magic
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ZXNova on April 26, 2017, 09:14:22 pm
In Strange Creators of Outer World (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Basic_Knowledge_of_Fantastic_Words_2015 (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Basic_Knowledge_of_Fantastic_Words_2015)), It was mentioned that there were two barriers that covered Gensokyo. The Barrier of Illusion/Fantasy and Reality, and the Hakurei Barrier. The Barrier of Illusion and Reality allows is so that youkai from anywhere can come into Gensokyo, not just the ones that exist in Japan. The youkai expansion project, in other words. Now the main purpose of this barrier may have been to give more power to the youkai, but you gotta think about it. It's been basically said long ago that Gensokyo has been willing to open up its borders to other youkai. Even if it is just for youkai, it isn't just youkai. Now I'm not trying look too deep into this, but basically, Gensokyo has been having its borders open to other youkai for a long time. That's basically saying that Gensokyo has already been accepting of outsiders in a way. Gensokyo could have just only had eastern youkai only, but it hasn't. There's western-type youkai here too. We have werewolves, we have vampires, chupacabra. Maybe more types of youkai in the future. Clearly the youkai have no issues with others.

As for tanned Cirno, I find it even funnier that people are complaining about her for simply having a tan. Come on now? There's so many things to be said about that it's ridiculous. Am also glad that this tan Cirno proves that Cirno doesn't actually melt. I mean come on, she's a fairy, not a literal block of ice.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Gondolin on April 26, 2017, 11:55:13 pm
In short, Anime fandom (Which the 2hu fandom overlaps with) has always been misogynistic and racist as hell.

I've always seen the anime fandom as being pretty accepting and diverse in a large manner of ways- a sort of 'our hobby is weird and people think we're weird but we can be weird together' kind of thing, but maybe my initial interactions with it were different from most. That said, certainly in recent years I've seen less of that, generally online.

As for tanned Cirno, I find it even funnier that people are complaining about her for simply having a tan. Come on now? There's so many things to be said about that it's ridiculous.

When I first saw tanned Cirno I was surprised because it was unexpected in a way that only including an old character as playable but with a tan can be, but at the end of the day it is just a tan.
People choosing to take issue with things that should be non-issues is nothing new I suppose. I for one am enjoying the nice spin it brings to Cirno fanart.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 27, 2017, 01:57:08 pm
Boy it gets even worse for them if you read some of the stuff in the book, because man ZUN (through one of the interviews in the book that Aya conducts) is basically talking shit about a lot of Trump's policies and the alt-right movement in general, just in a way that Gensokyo has the same issues, but you can obviously see his hard stance on those issues (and he uses Aya as an example of presenting facts in hugely biased ways just to appeal to readers who only wants to hear what they want to hear and all).

i do not read the print works or the manga, so may i ask for an example? (either in link form or in spoiler marked form). sorry if that's an annoying request!! i just can't seem tew find it anywhere. it's fine if not !

i'm sure tanned cirno, viewing from the outside world, is calling them "baka" right now.

"My tan is soooooooooo cool! Those idiots are too dumb to see it!"
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: martelefort on April 27, 2017, 02:31:36 pm
Basically, ZUN (or Aya as it's her book) just took some speech from Trump but replaced some words to fit in Genoskyo. Heres a link
http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2676378
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on April 27, 2017, 03:07:50 pm
Basically, ZUN (or Aya as it's her book) just took some speech from Trump but replaced some words to fit in Genoskyo. Heres a link
http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/2676378

The whole thing is pretty masterful, really. And it really pleases me that a man who lives in a country with very restrictive immigration controls, especially a guy who evokes Japan's ancient past as often as he does, made the conscious decision to do this and managed to pull it off in a light and humorous way.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: D-T on April 27, 2017, 03:35:53 pm
Moreover the interview with Hecatia near the end of the book pretty clearly has him use her as a bit of a mouthpiece and makes it clear he's very pro-immigration, using Gensokyo, the Lunar Capital, and Hell as non-specific analogies for the real world.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on April 27, 2017, 04:59:06 pm
CUT CUT CUT


Well, I'm not a moderator or anything, but I think they would appreciate if we would get back to the game discussion. Just a suggestion.

If need be, moderators: Move the AFiEU talk to it's own thread.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Chill Observer on April 27, 2017, 06:50:05 pm
Well at this time there's not really anything much that can be said about the game itself. We'll need to wait for the demo in a week's time.

Also, /jp/ is literal trash.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on April 27, 2017, 07:30:45 pm
The game is based around seasons

soooo

lily white as a midboss possibly?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on April 27, 2017, 07:53:33 pm
Seeing Letty again sure would be awesome as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fluury on April 27, 2017, 08:18:42 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/bFJxrHM.jpg)

Due to popular demand, here's a touhou 16 Bingo.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Maple on April 27, 2017, 10:13:26 pm
Quote
Destroyed clothes

First i was like "hwat", and then i was like, "oh, so that's they're talking about".

(1) (https://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/33547/) (2) (https://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhouyouyoumuperfectcherryblossom/sheet/44413/) (3) (https://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/91799/).

I swear, i didn't notice it until now. Sagume doesn't even get torn clothes (visible during normal gameplay, it's still in the code).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 28, 2017, 08:16:30 am
Sagume's the only character without torn clothes, so "return of ripped clothes" is kind of a misnomer. Well, Junko too, but probably because he just didn't bother making one for Extra.


(http://i.imgur.com/TygtJkF.jpg)

predictions

- Unconnected story: Latest VFiS chapter might be somewhat related?
- Focused on gameplay/resources: Probably both, being bonus options and pieces
- Team system: bonus options are assists
(- Enemies bleed season items to fill up gauge)
(- At full gauge get that season's bonus options)


I'm noticing that, considering ways to increase point value besides graze, in Aya's screenshot it looks like there might be faith items. But there certainly aren't a lot of them when ZUN only has an extra 130 and 190 in the other screenshots. Also notice that Aya's screenshot is near the beginning of the stage, Reimu is near the end, and Marisa is at the end. Reimu seems to have full gauge and Autumn, Marisa has full gauge and Winter. Does that suggest the season progression just starts with Spring? Could Reimu switch before the end of stage? Have Reimu and Marisa gained bombs or has Aya just managed to use three right at the beginning?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 28, 2017, 09:04:58 am
Also, not really sure where else to put this, but as some of you may have seen on Twitter, tomorrow is the NicoNico Chokaigi at the Makuhari Messe. There ZUN is distributing this year's Super ZUN Beer: This time he has named it 超東方トリプルシトラスラガー "Super Touhou Triple Citrus Lager". Hiroyuki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroyuki_Nishimura) is also of course participating again with Biere Orange.

Coasters this time:
(http://i.imgur.com/NBzSdib.png) (http://i.imgur.com/8Vnhp1a.png)

I wonder what the citrus fruits are? Yuzu, orange, grapefruit? The stuff on the coaster makes it seem like something like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Onion on April 28, 2017, 11:10:08 pm
Positive bits:
Gimmicks only really bother me when it's a new item I have to learn or something (UFOs, I'm looking at you).
I hope for this game that we get more bullet types than LoLK. I miss bubble bullets. They were so fun looking. (;_;)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Onion on April 29, 2017, 03:41:08 am
Wait! Incoming theory:
Marisa's complaining about it being hot, when often she complains that it's too cold out. This is unlike her, and she's "winter" in this game.
Cirno has a tan, even though she's an Ice fairy (who likely does not need tans). This is unlike her, and she's "summer" in this game.
I don't know about Aya or Reimu, but maybe this game focuses around an incident causing contrary and unusual behavior in people related to the seasons. So, Aki sisters would be Spring, Letty would be summer, and so on.
It's an incident!  :o

End of theory. You may resume your normal lives.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on April 29, 2017, 04:21:41 am
I don't really think so. Marisa and Reimu complain about the weather almost constantly regardless of what it is.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: 7TC7 on April 29, 2017, 08:00:22 am
But that would make it possible for Aya to be spring and Reimu to be fall (as their season gauges might even hint at?) which could be interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on April 30, 2017, 12:58:20 pm
Next Sunday!
(https://media.tenor.co/images/2c08c9b6c2c35b7074b98f4e79cad26e/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on April 30, 2017, 06:09:48 pm
^
Same here.
Even if it's only a demo, the closer the release date gets, the more excited I become  :toot:

Gameplay, plot, new characters, music... so many things to look forward to!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 30, 2017, 07:46:37 pm
on another note....

tomorrow is may...!!!

what the h*ck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it doesn't feel like the demo release of th16 in a week either...

but, during that time, i'll be having AP tests and the like... uuuu...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: jhun on May 01, 2017, 04:35:58 pm
Yay, few days left

but, during that time, i'll be having AP tests and the like... uuuu...
AP tests?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 01, 2017, 05:56:37 pm
AP tests?
Exams taken as part of the "Advanced Placement" (read: College-in-High-School) curriculum.

i'll be having AP tests and the like... uuuu...
Good luck!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: jhun on May 01, 2017, 06:30:10 pm
Exams taken as part of the "Advanced Placement" (read: College-in-High-School) curriculum.

Oh I see. Goodluck



Anyway, HYPED!!!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 01, 2017, 11:51:23 pm
Exams taken as part of the "Advanced Placement" (read: College-in-High-School) curriculum.
Good luck!

thank you !! i will try my best.

while i'm suffering through those exams during that week, though, i hope you guys have fun with the demo!!

though, it's on a sunday, so i guess i'll be able on playing it for at least a little bit, but i might spend most of my time studying. oh well ^^;;

at least i'll definitely be around for the full version !

Oh I see. Goodluck



Anyway, HYPED!!!

grazie!! (italian - thank you)

have fun next week !!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 02, 2017, 08:27:53 am
while i'm suffering through those exams during that week, though, i hope you guys have fun with the demo!!

though, it's on a sunday, so i guess i'll be able on playing it for at least a little bit, but i might spend most of my time studying. oh well ^^;;
Play it when you've got the time, but studying here is definitely more important.
I hope that you can pass your AP exams decently and then have no worries about them anymore when playing TH.
Wish you all the best for the hurdle to come!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 02, 2017, 02:05:30 pm
Play it when you've got the time, but studying here is definitely more important.
I hope that you can pass your AP exams decently and then have no worries about them anymore when playing TH.
Wish you all the best for the hurdle to come!

thank you very very much!! it's not required that i pass, but if i do, then i won't need tew take english or world history in college i think! it's really hard though, so i kinda have my doubts. however, just by being in the course, i have an advantage over other students and stuff so it's alright !

i procrastinate a lot and am currently doing badly in two classes since i am not good at those subjects, so i will try my best for studying ; ;" school has been my main stresser lately, aha.

however, while i appreciate it, i don't wanna clog the thread with this topic. if anyone else wished for sending me support, please use the inbox feature ;v; !! i don't want helepolis putting a "dunce" hat on me while i stand in the corner xwx

but but, anyway....! touhou 16 seems fun yes yes.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fluury on May 03, 2017, 02:06:04 pm
So, is there any set time for the demo to be sold and thus through particular means brought to western audiences or is it in the blue for now? Same goes for 15.5.

I know they are going to be released this weekend, but when?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 03, 2017, 02:13:01 pm
Whenever the event starts?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Buck on May 03, 2017, 06:20:45 pm
This time I'd like to return to my roots
(http://i.imgur.com/YTyWm07.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 04, 2017, 06:15:28 pm
guys guys guys guys

it's too soon i'm too hyped
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on May 04, 2017, 06:51:38 pm
Three days remain.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 05, 2017, 04:45:54 am
TWO DAYS REMAIN!!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Spotty Len on May 05, 2017, 05:21:23 am
The CD cover of the next game has been revealed on ZUN's blog, along with a new character : http://kourindou.exblog.jp/25748283/
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on May 05, 2017, 05:25:57 am
A butterfly?

Well Rev up the shipping train as Wriggle just got a new ship!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 05, 2017, 05:28:19 am
Makes sense, given the seasonal theme.

That is one cheerful butterfly!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 05, 2017, 05:35:51 am
she is so cute oh my gosh!!

i expect her theme tew be lighthearted and fun~ 

watch her swear often and actually hate being called cute and in reality is a weird tomboy
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 05, 2017, 05:46:24 am
What kind of butterfly do you think she is? I wanna say monarch due to the pattern but I'm not sure...

I feel bad now that my own butterfly fc isn't as nice as this, she looks so cute~
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 05, 2017, 05:54:55 am
The CD cover of the next game has been revealed on ZUN's blog, along with a new character : http://kourindou.exblog.jp/25748283/


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_CmBp7XYAAq0sY.jpg)

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 05, 2017, 06:06:53 am
Finally, a new bug-based character!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 05, 2017, 06:21:47 am
 we barely know anything about her but i aleardy love her
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Plubio on May 05, 2017, 06:51:46 am
we barely know anything about her but i aleardy love her

This.
She's so cute~ I really like her design.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TheTeff007 on May 05, 2017, 07:59:29 am
Dammit... she's cute but she's a butterfly. Time to redesigna character of mine....
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Zelinko on May 05, 2017, 08:09:48 am
On that bingo sheet. Shouldn't we check of bugs?  I mean she is one after all
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 05, 2017, 08:24:40 am
On that bingo sheet. Shouldn't we check of bugs?  I mean she is one after all

I think "bugs" on the bingo sheet refers to the programming kind of bugs.

Other than that, new 2hu get!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on May 05, 2017, 08:31:52 am
What kind of butterfly do you think she is? I wanna say monarch due to the pattern but I'm not sure...

I feel bad now that my own butterfly fc isn't as nice as this, she looks so cute~
A swallowtail.

specifically, seems to be the Asian swallowtail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papilio_xuthus), a most common butterfly species in Japan.

(http://wx2.sinaimg.cn/mw690/be8f9ff3gy1ffajjwh8anj20l80bzq74.jpg)

Her skirt is based on cocoons, and the "antennae" on her head is actually an osmeterium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmeterium), a defensive organ that scares away predators by spitting out a foul odor and looking like a snake's forked tongue.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on May 05, 2017, 08:34:00 am
Her pose and face remind me a lot of the  that one fanmade boss created to celebrate a famous japanese singer's birthday (http://i.imgur.com/x4i50Fe.jpg)

That being said, she's adorable and I love her smile ♥  Here's to hoping all bosses are this cute.

Time to make your bets while you can, everyone, which stage do you think she's the boss of?

Personally I think she's gonna be stage 1's since a -ton- of stage 1 bosses are animal-based.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 05, 2017, 08:42:18 am
https://twitter.com/VJ_frmk/status/860364419129147392

Day zero fanart strikes again  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suspicious person on May 05, 2017, 08:45:31 am
Precious looking indeed, I like how even her sleeves look like butterflies, haha.  Here's hoping that she won't get forgotten like a certain blue moon bunny

Time to make your bets while you can, everyone, which stage do you think she's the boss of?
Money on stage 1, no way the latter stages bosses are gonna get spoiled, aren't they  :V ? ... not paying if I lose, tho

[...] a defensive organ that scares away predators by spitting out a foul odor and looking like a snake's forked tongue.
Don't ruin the cute plz
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TheTeff007 on May 05, 2017, 08:48:13 am
(http://i65.tinypic.com/11uf9mx.jpg)

My Day Zero attempt. 1.5 hrs, and is past 2am right now  :V

My bet is on Stage 1 Boss too
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on May 05, 2017, 08:49:52 am


Actually iirc DDC's CD had Sekibanki, TD's had Kyouko and UFO's had Kogasa.  So hey, who knows!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on May 05, 2017, 08:51:50 am
Newgirl x Yuyuko instant ship
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on May 05, 2017, 08:57:36 am
Don't ruin the cute plz
Look it up on Youtube, it's quite adorable.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Piranha on May 05, 2017, 08:58:51 am
So it's finally time ;)
And what a cutie that is  :3
ZUN's getting better with this, I love the way he based the design on a real-life animal.

[...]a defensive organ that scares away predators by spitting out a foul odor and looking like a snake's forked tongue.

And now all I can see in my head is her trying to scare the main characters away like a skunk ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 05, 2017, 09:09:02 am
D'awww, a wild new cutie 2hu appears!

Butterfly ---> Butterflies pollinate flowers ---> Yuuka has a new partner.


Well then, obligatory new 2hu name-guessing time! Mine is Utsukushii Chouko (Beautiful Butterfly Girl).
I know, that was completely unoriginal.  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 05, 2017, 09:26:56 am
Damnit I'm late again
IT'S HERE.
She's one cute little butterfly  :3
Chances are that she's the first boss, since her design and her pose look really light-hearted. I'm sure looking forward to her theme now :derp:

Now I'm thinking what name ZUN might've given her. Wriggle is the first insect character in Touhou and has a Western name. According to cuc's insight though, this new character probably has got an Asian/a Japanese name, since her species is likely from the East. Then again, Doremy is based on a Japanese mythological creature and has a Western name, so no one can know for sure what naming shenanigans ZUN's up to again.
Wild speculations ahoy!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: PK on May 05, 2017, 10:42:46 am
Rumia's pose
Cirno's blue hair
Actual wings like Mystia
Insect like Wriggle

Team 9 personification.

Hype train choo-choo!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 05, 2017, 11:02:22 am
Actually iirc DDC's CD had Sekibanki, TD's had Kyouko and UFO's had Kogasa.  So hey, who knows!
UFO has Nazrin and DDC has Sakuya.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on May 05, 2017, 11:19:07 am
Now I'm thinking what name ZUN might've given her. Wriggle is the first insect character in Touhou and has a Western name. According to cuc's insight though, this new character probably has got an Asian/a Japanese name, since her species is likely from the East. Then again, Doremy is based on a Japanese mythological creature and has a Western name, so no one can know for sure what naming shenanigans ZUN's up to again.
Wriggle is a Genji firefly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciola), which is also a signature species of Japan.

Doremi's name and appearance are actually a homage to Ptolemy, heroine of Taito's The Fairyland Story (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fairyland_Story). In general, there's no definite pattern to the names.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: the old guy on May 05, 2017, 11:19:31 am
Predicts: That character will be a total a-grade asshole.

Also, people are going to accuse her of being a rip off of Wriggle and say that ZUN is running out of ideas. Calling it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 05, 2017, 11:41:18 am
Wriggle is a Genji firefly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciola), which is also a signature species of Japan.

Doremi's name and appearance are actually a homage to Ptolemy, heroine of Taito's The Fairyland Story (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fairyland_Story). In general, there's no definite pattern to the names.
Oh, I see. It's interesting how ZUN gives Western (sounding) names to characters whose species are based on Japanese mythological or real life species. I wonder what kinda reason that might have. Also I didn't even hear about Doremy's name having that reference, thanks for the info  :3

I think that this character might get a pretty simple sounding name, as for most stage 1 bosses (given if she's one).

Predicts: That character will be a total a-grade asshole.

Also, people are going to accuse her of being a rip off of Wriggle and say that ZUN is running out of ideas. Calling it.
Woah hold your horses there. It's too early for that. We don't know anything about her aside her appearance and her being one of the first three bosses. Maybe it's her being an insect and having a haircut similar to Wriggle's, but that still doesn't mean anything. Let's see what the game will tell us about her. At least she doesn't look like a boy
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fluury on May 05, 2017, 12:02:41 pm
the feel when ZUN himself spoils you the character designs

welp we are only like 30 hours away from playing it, right?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 05, 2017, 12:11:24 pm
Predicts: That character will be a total a-grade asshole.
She sort of is already for someone I've met.  He has a fear of butterflies and moths...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Plubio on May 05, 2017, 12:38:44 pm
Actually iirc DDC's CD had Sekibanki

Mmm, no, sorry, DDC's demo disc had Sakuya. The other two are right though.

(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201305/25/42/e0088742_12175489.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 05, 2017, 12:54:37 pm
Quote
ZUN (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/860471920952721409): I had prepared all the data, so I burned it to a CD to test install on another PC, and then I realized. I didn't make a freaking icooon. I never notice until the very end.

lol
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 05, 2017, 01:39:34 pm
Mmm, no, sorry, DDC's demo disc had Sakuya. The other two are right though.

(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201305/25/42/e0088742_12175489.jpg)
I'm very sure UFO's is Nazrin.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 05, 2017, 01:57:40 pm
UFO trial had Nazrin on the CD. The full version has Kogasa.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on May 05, 2017, 02:09:08 pm
So NicoNico has started a programme called "Touhou Station". It will be a "variety show" hosted by Beat Mario, and the first episode (http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv294989011) will be broadcast tomorrow at 5 PM JST. ZUN will be burning his HSiFS CD-R discs from the show room remotely from somewhere else, and Tasofro will probably show off the AoCF demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suwako Moriya on May 05, 2017, 02:10:24 pm
lol

Absolutely incredible.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Xeno on May 05, 2017, 03:07:33 pm
Newgirl x Yuyuko instant ship

I imagine the newgirl x Wriggle will be more popular, since they're both insect youkai and stage 1 bosses afterall.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TableCloth on May 05, 2017, 03:38:39 pm
And once more this topic become popular lol.

I like the art for that butterfly girl, tho. Seems really cute for ZUNart.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 05, 2017, 03:42:24 pm
I'll be the odd one out and guess that she could be a fairy (like a counter to Cirno as a main). Granted I do feel she will be an insect youkai, she could easily be an insect fairy (though those they are the less common of fairies from what I can tell.) but my only real thought to this is that the game deals with seasons and fairies are products of nature... maybe haha! 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 05, 2017, 04:22:55 pm
If she is a butterfly, though, it would make a lot of sense given the seasonal theme. And ZUN's fairy wings are typically not that insectoid.

But hey, the guy's full of surprises, who knows?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 05, 2017, 04:36:03 pm
True, we will have to wait and see! But I do find it interesting that the season where butterflies are more common is summer. (could just be a coincidence though!)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Gondolin on May 05, 2017, 04:40:04 pm
Liking the design of our new butterfly friend. Wonder if the organ on her head will bring some of that slowing mist from Medicine in StB to a spellcard.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 05, 2017, 04:59:35 pm
I imagine the newgirl x Wriggle will be more popular, since they're both insect youkai and stage 1 bosses afterall.

Or with that "earth spider" from Subterranean Animism

if she counts that is...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 05, 2017, 05:02:19 pm
Or with that "earth spider" from Subterranean Animism

if she counts that is...

That's a pair I don't see too often! hmm~ (I do hope someday Yamame will come back)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on May 05, 2017, 05:47:02 pm
Ohh man you guys were right with the cd cases.  In UFO's case I was actually thinking of Kogasa's 'surprise!' from the full version, as people've put.  My bad! ♪
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 05, 2017, 07:03:25 pm
I love our new butterfly friend and I'm calling her Aggie until we get an actual name and I'm drawing her already and extremely excited for the demo in general but I also just had a horrifying realization:

revenge of ISC butterfly hitbox
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tsalop on May 05, 2017, 07:23:16 pm
Princess Wriggle will be the final boss..,
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 05, 2017, 07:31:42 pm
So NicoNico has started a programme called "Touhou Station". It will be a "variety show" hosted by Beat Mario, and the first episode (http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv294989011) will be broadcast tomorrow at 5 PM JST. ZUN will be burning his HSiFS CD-R discs from the show room remotely from somewhere else, and Tasofro will probably show off the AoCF demo.
Reposting because page. I've commented about this before, but the format will probably be very similar to the 20th anniversary livestream (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18958.0.html). This time instead of showcasing select art with the #touhou20 twitter tag, they've opened signups for people to have their new Reitaisai works advertised during the show.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: WindyKitsune on May 05, 2017, 07:37:49 pm
Such a cute butterfly!
Warmly waiting for Reitaisai demo release.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: teefa85 on May 05, 2017, 07:40:28 pm
The new girl is super adorable!  Can't wait to find out more about her.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 05, 2017, 07:48:57 pm
Time to make your bets while you can, everyone, which stage do you think she's the boss of?

I'm gonna guess she is a stage one boss, she gives me a stage one boss feeling for some reason. if i lose i will pay with candies
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 05, 2017, 08:42:43 pm
Given that starting with MoF the only exceptions to the demo CD having a Stage 1 boss is TD (where Yuyuko was Stage 1) and DDC (which was just Sakuya for whatever reason) it seems pretty straightforward to expect her as Stage 1.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ふねん1 on May 05, 2017, 08:56:18 pm
Love this new character's design. I just can't wait anymore uuugggghhhh I wanna see the demo already!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Plubio on May 05, 2017, 09:09:18 pm
I'm very sure UFO's is Nazrin.

lmao that's true.
I mistaked full game with demo

rip me
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 05, 2017, 09:42:19 pm
That butterfly. One of my favorite designs for a while, seems like a return to this light-heartedness of Touhou 9 era.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lebon14 on May 05, 2017, 10:08:23 pm
She's so cute~~
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Alrysc on May 05, 2017, 10:54:52 pm
I don't think any Stage 1 or Stage 2 bosses have really had a major connection, or any connection at all, with the Incident, and I'm not too sure a butterfly would be that closely related to it, so I'll go with the guess that she'll be a Stage 1 or 2 boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 05, 2017, 10:59:09 pm
Well the fanart is already chucking out really nice and beautiful art of out new bug friend!~ Really want this demo!

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18221755_217433592089420_8904532315828461314_n.jpg?oh=6a73a9795d2be90a1db5f86104065cef&oe=598B243B)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/18221979_217432635422849_3605557831809039378_n.jpg?oh=49c089fbb845a9b94802724c8bf4e257&oe=597C93F5)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 05, 2017, 11:47:15 pm
I don't think any Stage 1 or Stage 2 bosses have really had a major connection, or any connection at all, with the Incident, and I'm not too sure a butterfly would be that closely related to it, so I'll go with the guess that she'll be a Stage 1 or 2 boss.
UFO and LoLK are two notable exceptions, otherwise you're right. In UFO, Nazrin is a member of the Myouren Temple crew that attempted to free Byakuren, and in LoLK Seiran and Ringo were two lunar emissaries sent to Gensokyo as an aftermath of Junko's siege on the Lunar Capital. Otherwise the earlier bosses are just randomly encountered characters that are designed to fit their respective game's overall theme, like in DDC.

Well the fanart is already chucking out really nice and beautiful art of out new bug friend!~ Really want this demo!

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18221755_217433592089420_8904532315828461314_n.jpg?oh=6a73a9795d2be90a1db5f86104065cef&oe=598B243B)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/18221979_217432635422849_3605557831809039378_n.jpg?oh=49c089fbb845a9b94802724c8bf4e257&oe=597C93F5)
Already saw those being posted on Tumblr. One of the reasons I really like being part of this great fan community  :)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on May 06, 2017, 12:38:39 am

Quote from: ZUN
 The trial CD of Touhou: Hidden Star in Four Seasons has arrived!
 This is what CD-R does not contain any data.


(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201705/05/42/e0088742_14082345.jpg)
 Well, I am glad that it was on time. So, tomorrow (with the help of Mr. Dwango) I will burn this CD-R, bake it, and distribute it at Reitaisei on Sunday!  The price is expected to be 300 yen. Say hello on the day of the big festival!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Alrysc on May 06, 2017, 12:44:38 am
Uh... Bake? I question this process.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lebon14 on May 06, 2017, 01:03:16 am
Uh... Bake? I question this process.

Probably Google Translate's version of the word "burn" as in "burn a CD".
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: WestTxTapper on May 06, 2017, 01:22:04 am
I think "bake" means putting the picture on it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on May 06, 2017, 01:30:17 am
Probably Google Translate's version of the word "burn" as in "burn a CD".




Probably. Google Translate sucks at quality translations.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 06, 2017, 01:40:03 am
The word for CD burning in Japanese is 焼く, to bake/cook.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: the old guy on May 06, 2017, 03:23:34 am
Woah hold your horses there. It's too early for that. We don't know anything about her aside her appearance and her being one of the first three bosses. Maybe it's her being an insect and having a haircut similar to Wriggle's, but that still doesn't mean anything. Let's see what the game will tell us about her. At least she doesn't look like a boy

ZUN likes to make cute characters total asses, like Nitori.

And people like to accuse ZUN of running out of ideas whenever new characters are revealed. People claimed Nue was a rip off of Flandre (Which makes no sense.), people did the same thing with Junko, claiming her rivalry with Chang'e is a retread of Mokou and Kaguya's rivalry (Also weird, because it's completely one sided, to my knowledge Chang'e hasn't ever killed Junko.), i'm sure people said the same thing with Kagerou, and probably many other characters. It's really annoying because technically ZUN's been doing this since the beginning of the windows era, i mean, Meiling is literally just Orange.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 06, 2017, 04:20:32 am
Well nitori is really the only example I can think of, but it really depends on what you call a cute character.

I could care less about characters having similar things, they still have a defined personality and their designs are very different. For pc98 however... as cool as I like some of them most don't have the depth of design that windows character have. What design details from history can we learn from Ellen? Not much... but we can find a lot when it comes to characters like Nazrin or Yamame.


Edit: but to be fair sine EoSD was right after pc98 a few characters kinda have the same issue like Rumia and Cirno. We know a lot more about them in lore but design wise there's not a huge influence as some of the others.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 06, 2017, 04:21:56 am
Probably. Google Translate sucks at quality translations.

No surprise since not all translators are accurate
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 06, 2017, 05:20:14 am
to be honest the fact that i'm not going to bother retranslating the blog post because i figure people get the picture is a testament to how far machine translation has gotten due to advances in natural language processing
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 06, 2017, 05:28:24 am
TOMORROW! IS! THE! DAAAAYYY!!!/i]
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 06, 2017, 05:34:03 am
to be honest the fact that i'm not going to bother retranslating the blog post because i figure people get the picture is a testament to how far machine translation has gotten due to advances in natural language processing

Agreed! While a lot say that Google translate is awful  (and to a point it is) but it can still give someone a decent picture of what the context is, even if you have to have some knowledge already. But it's not bad if you know what your doing. (God I'm defending Google translate. ..)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 06, 2017, 05:44:37 am
i used google translator to make some Touhou OC's, i don't use it anymore.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 06, 2017, 05:48:57 am
Agreed! While a lot say that Google translate is awful  (and to a point it is) but it can still give someone a decent picture of what the context is, even if you have to have some knowledge already. But it's not bad if you know what your doing. (God I'm defending Google translate. ..)

Google Translate coupled with some simple basics in a language can be a huge help and even enable you to have a simple online discussion with someone who speaks that language. I regularly use it to contact doujin artists and musicians and it works quite well, especially now that Japanese-English has switched to neural networks.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 06, 2017, 05:55:04 am
Google Translate coupled with some simple basics in a language can be a huge help and even enable you to have a simple online discussion with someone who speaks that language. I regularly use it to contact doujin artists and musicians and it works quite well, especially now that Japanese-English has switched to neural networks.

Exactly! I use it on twitter all the time and have full conversations with artists. I would apologize for the poor japanese but they are very understanding and can understand quite well! As long as your using the right kanji/kana your fine lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Raikaria on May 06, 2017, 08:39:11 am
ZUN likes to make cute characters total asses, like Nitori.

And people like to accuse ZUN of running out of ideas whenever new characters are revealed. People claimed Nue was a rip off of Flandre (Which makes no sense.), people did the same thing with Junko, claiming her rivalry with Chang'e is a retread of Mokou and Kaguya's rivalry (Also weird, because it's completely one sided, to my knowledge Chang'e hasn't ever killed Junko.), i'm sure people said the same thing with Kagerou, and probably many other characters. It's really annoying because technically ZUN's been doing this since the beginning of the windows era, i mean, Meiling is literally just Orange.

EoSD had quite a lot of PC-98 retreads or nods actually.

Sakuya is literally blue Yumeko. Down to the space/time warping and knife/sword throwing and loyalty to their master.
Meling is Orange as aformentioned
You can see some similarities between Patchouli and PC-98 Alice [Reclusive magicians who both use powerful elemental magic. Both also show up in the EX stage of their games; using their true power [Patchy because she 'feels better today' and Alice due to using her Grimoire]]
Hell; Remilia is the 'Scarlet Devil' and Shinki was the God of the Demon Realm [also known as the Devil] and is clad in scarlet; although aside from the wings that's about where the similarities end.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 06, 2017, 09:50:47 am
ZUN likes to make cute characters total asses, like Nitori.

And people like to accuse ZUN of running out of ideas whenever new characters are revealed. People claimed Nue was a rip off of Flandre (Which makes no sense.), people did the same thing with Junko, claiming her rivalry with Chang'e is a retread of Mokou and Kaguya's rivalry (Also weird, because it's completely one sided, to my knowledge Chang'e hasn't ever killed Junko.), i'm sure people said the same thing with Kagerou, and probably many other characters. It's really annoying because technically ZUN's been doing this since the beginning of the windows era, i mean, Meiling is literally just Orange.
Seeing her arcs and profiles in HM and ULiL, yeah, Nitori's a pretty unfortunate example since I liked her MoF/SA design and personality a lot.

Now that you mention it though, I'm still fairly new to Touhou compared to many veterans here, but I've heard that accusations towards ZUN upon the revelation of new characters happened pretty much with every game. I've even seen somewhere that people even were initially quite toxic against the SA cast at its full release, now we've all seen in the recent popularity polls where especially Koishi and Satori have gotten to. As with DDC and LoLK, the only two major games of which I've witnessed the release up-close, I for myself didn't really saw any of the accusations except for that the musical characters in DDC are rather forgettable and that Junko VS Chang'e has ties to Mokou VS Kaguya, of which the latter comparison actually makes a tad bit sense since one side is (still) a Lunarian, while the other side is not (anymore). Other than this and that each arc involved a casualty, they're not really that similar. I literally don't see any similarities between Flandre and Nue aside from both having extraordinary designs for their wings and being EX bosses, Koishi would actually be more similar to Flandre since both are EX bosses and the younger sisters of mistresses that appeared in the respective main games. I guess that's the Touhou fandom for y'all, even though I'm not that sort of person who likes to accuse everything. People fortunately mostly settle down as time passes.

Let's hope that ZUN is actually being nice with the new cast  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Spotty Len on May 06, 2017, 09:59:20 am
It doesn't matter if he's nice with the new cast or not, just look at how happy he is right now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_IfyglXgAAHdz8.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 06, 2017, 10:16:02 am
A smiling ZUN is always a good sign!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 06, 2017, 10:17:23 am
Well, that last sentence wasn't meant to be completely serious anyway. I'm of course always happier to see ZUN being in a good mood  ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 06, 2017, 11:19:18 am
It doesn't matter if he's nice with the new cast or not, just look at how happy he is right now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_IfyglXgAAHdz8.jpg)

Completely made my day.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 06, 2017, 12:43:04 pm
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NMeXkvvwluM/hqdefault.jpg)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/b1o4elYH8Tqjm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on May 06, 2017, 01:24:30 pm
Well nitori is really the only example I can think of, but it really depends on what you call a cute character.

Rumia acts goofy but her first interaction with humans was pretty much a literal "Can I eat you?"

Medicine would poison anyone without a second thought when we see her the first time.

Kisume is a loli who drops down and cuts off people's heads, according to her base legend. She even threw a whole skeleton at a bunch of kids!

Nazrin acts like a smug little asshole even to her superior.

Clownpiece is Clownpiece.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kurzov on May 06, 2017, 03:49:06 pm

(thread about zun of snip)

Rumia acts goofy but her first interaction with humans was pretty much a literal "Can I eat you?"

Medicine would poison anyone without a second thought when we see her the first time.

Kisume is a loli who drops down and cuts off people's heads, according to her base legend. She even threw a whole skeleton at a bunch of kids!




Creators have the freedom to change things from the base as they see fit.
Things can change, interactions can change.

End of argument, the way I see it... but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 06, 2017, 07:13:58 pm
Agreed! While a lot say that Google translate is awful  (and to a point it is) but it can still give someone a decent picture of what the context is, even if you have to have some knowledge already. But it's not bad if you know what your doing. (God I'm defending Google translate. ..)

Bing translate is better

 :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 06, 2017, 10:26:36 pm
Bing translate is better

 :V

 :P ah yes! exactly! How easily I forget!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 07, 2017, 02:25:30 am
Tanned Cirno nendoroid is being made! (https://m.facebook.com/goodsmileenglish/photos/a.129413530475308.33481.122978557785472/1302764516473531/?type=3&theater/)

That was...fast! The demo isn't even out here yet!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: mauve on May 07, 2017, 02:45:40 am
the charas are so ill-defined in general it's like

you can literally pick specific incarnations of a character from different works in the same series and they won't be remotely consistent

there's a pretty famous chart (https://twitter.com/zweignw002/status/724248583554244608) comparing reimu's completely haphazard personalities across the various canon works and it's hilarious

just pick what you like from the franchise and ignore the rest, it's what zun does
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 02:48:09 am
It's screenshots time!! A bunch of people on JP Twitter are posting phone pics of their CD copies and someone in this thread (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read.cgi/internet/22214/1492697303/) is posting a buncha screens

I was gonna summarize the screenshot contents but Whoops Theyre Comin In Too Fast

The name at the top of the .exe window is 天星璋 instead of 天空璋... ZUN must've forgotten to change it after finalizing the title lol

also i imagine Look Don't Touch Policy is probably a good thing to follow re:that thread in question, just as a general reminder

<Karisa> Fixed broken link
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 02:54:32 am
i.imgur.com/mHc4Szig.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/mHc4Szig.jpg)

Butterfly-chan's name is Etarnity Larva, which means she's probably a fairy

i.imgur.com/OkT1NeQ.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/OkT1NeQ.jpg)

Looks like score-based extends

http://i.imgur.com/THDq2Jv.jpg "Breezy Cherry Blossom "
http://i.imgur.com/tw2UVc7.jpg "Perfect Summer Ice"
http://i.imgur.com/5f679YP.jpg "Crazy Fall Wind"
http://i.imgur.com/wpZ71u9.jpg "Extreme Winter"

Also subweapon select screen, season predictions were accurate of course
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: mauve on May 07, 2017, 02:57:13 am
i was expecting something corny

i'm still floored
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 07, 2017, 02:58:52 am
Engrish strikes again!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Plubio on May 07, 2017, 03:03:52 am
Lovely.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: teefa85 on May 07, 2017, 03:04:03 am
Gotta love goofy names!  Her expression looks both adorable and hilarious!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 03:12:11 am
Stage 2 boss is Nemuno Sakata, a yama-uba (mountain hag). Judging by the surname, she's the hag who raised Kintarou (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintarō").

*edit: yamanba, rather
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 07, 2017, 03:13:24 am
Stage 2 boss is Nemuno Sakata, a yama-uba (mountain hag). Judging by the surname, she's the hag who raised Kintarou (http://"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintarō").
Image for others: http://i.imgur.com/eKOPPIL.jpg
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 07, 2017, 03:23:45 am
Lily White friendos: http://i.imgur.com/oYsNpB6.jpg
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 03:24:38 am
Stages look like they cycle through seasons. Summer -> Autumn -> Spring.


Stage 3: Komano Aunn (http://i.imgur.com/9evRT6W.jpg). Probably a Yamainu Komainu wtf is with my names today.


Noting that point value seems totally unrelated to graze, as previously hypothesized from the blog screenshots.

CURVY LASER NO (http://i.imgur.com/eR26xBT.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: mauve on May 07, 2017, 03:35:34 am
komano the komainu (http://i.imgur.com/viQBW9P.jpg).

even i groaned at that one
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 07, 2017, 03:36:54 am

Stage 3: Komano Aunn (http://i.imgur.com/9evRT6W.jpg). Probably a Yamainu Komainu wtf is with my names today.

Was about to ask what a Yamainu was because I was sure by her name alone she had to be a Komainu instead.

So we have a butterfly, mountain hag, and komainu as bosses. Huh.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 03:37:07 am
Reimu heads back to the shrine and Aunn's there like 'oh hi! :D i was guarding the place while you were out' and Reimu's like 'OH GOD WHO ARE YOU WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN MY HOUSE' lol
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: teefa85 on May 07, 2017, 03:39:55 am
Poor Reimu...someone's always dropping by unannounced...

So we've got two adorable girls and one of the best slasher smiles (fittingly so).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 07, 2017, 03:41:26 am
Oh sweet! If she is a fairy I'll be happy! I'm not sure but the other two just feel like characters you see in some fangame shooters lol. Might take me time to get use to them I guess.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 07, 2017, 03:44:40 am
Is she a fairy or a butterfly?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 03:45:57 am
A butterfly fairy.

Apparently there's no music room or manual yet? Only thing selectable on the title screen is 'Start Game', says screenshot dude.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nyxnyx on May 07, 2017, 03:46:43 am
We have another girl with pants!

So, komainu is considered some kind of a lion-dog? Do we have a lion dog girl now?

Looking great so far, i like all the new characters. Or maybe I'm biased, we may never know.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 03:47:11 am
Graze creates Season items.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Alrysc on May 07, 2017, 03:48:59 am
To be honest, I didn't like the Life Pieces. How's the difficulty compared to the other games? Has anyone said?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 07, 2017, 03:56:11 am
We have another girl with pants!

So, komainu is considered some kind of a lion-dog? Do we have a lion dog girl now?

Looking great so far, i like all the new characters. Or maybe I'm biased, we may never know.

Those stone lion things you find at temples.  Also called Shisa, unless they're both different.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 03:59:20 am
System:
- Graze and destroying enemies creates Season items
- Season items fill up gauge
- When it fills up one level you gain a bonus option
- Up to 6 bonus options
- Can press the Release button to get rid of bonus options for temporary invulnerability and a circle spawns around where you press it
- Release circle cancels bullets and you gain point value based on how much you cancel, and also canceled bullets give you Season items back
- Effectiveness of Release depends on what your level is; the behaviour depends on subweapon
- Release can deal a ton of damage holy cow

Spring Release uses all levels, size of circle depends on level, and disappears quickly. You also become invincible.
Summer Release uses only one level, creates a small circle, and disappears quickly.
Autumn Release uses all levels, creates a small circle that follows you, and lasts longer depending on level. You can also go fast.
Winter Release uses all levels, creates a small circle that shields you, and lasts longer depending on level. Your shot power also increases a ton.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 04:01:04 am
Oh the manual is still accessible from the pause menu during gameplay. Okay.

Quote
The Butterfly Fairy who Approaches God
Etanity Larva

Species: Fairy
Ability: Capable of scattering scales

A swallowtail butterfly fairy.
However, she doesn't just embody grown butterflies, but also caterpillars and chrysalises;
she can be said to be a fairy embodying insect growth, rebirth, and perversion.

Like Cirno, she's stronger than usual due to some strange force. She's in berserk mode, basically.
Fairies typically go berserk during most incidents anyway.
Her regular personality is extremely gentle-- no matter where a fight breaks out, she'll head over
to play with a few power items in hand.

Apparently when she senses danger, she spews danmaku and a foul stench from her antennae.

Her theme song is "A Midsummer Butterfly's Dream". I would imagine it's a reference to A Midsummer Night's Dream, as opposed to the Nicovideo gay porn memes, but since ZUN straight-up put the word '変態' in her profile he's probably well aware of how the JP fandom's gonna memeify the poor gal.

Shisa are specifically the Ryukyuan kind I think.

edit: You can select which Season options you want when selecting your player character. Spring converts bullets into Season items and grants brief invincibility, Winter serves as a temporary barrier and grants increased attack, Autumn converts bullets into Season items and increases your speed, and Summer's bullet-clear is small and brief but only consumes one option at a time.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lebon14 on May 07, 2017, 04:03:27 am
So, we have another fairy to go hang out with Luna, Star, Sunny, Cirno, Clownpiece, Lily and "the big fairy". I'm kinda disappointed because I'm pretty sure she'll show up in Visionnary Fairies in Shrine's next issue this summer. I really wanted her to be a butterfly youkai instead of a fairy. Beggars can't be choosers I guess.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Gondolin on May 07, 2017, 04:03:33 am
New characters are looking pretty cool so far. Nice to see Lily White make a return
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Alrysc on May 07, 2017, 04:04:38 am
Wait, does Reimu's sprite not have her Gohei? I don't see it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 04:08:41 am
Hooray new Smug Aya faces!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2017, 04:09:32 am
Reddit post with some screenshots (contains spoilers): https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/69p8u8/some_images_of_touhou_16_hidden_star_in_four/

Also check out the headbar there XD
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 04:13:11 am
System:
- Graze and destroying enemies creates Season items
- Season items fill up gauge
- When it fills up one level you gain a bonus option
- Up to 6 bonus options
- Can press the Release button to get rid of all of the bonus options for temporary invulnerability and a small circle spawns around where you press it
- More Release time depending on what your level is
- Release circle cancels bullets and you gain point value based on how much you cancel

EDIT: This is Aya. Seems like other characters have different Release mechanics.

Seeing screenshots of choosable options after Character Select, i.e., Something + Something, where the bottom something is changeable. What is this?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 07, 2017, 04:13:44 am
So, we have another fairy to go hang out with Luna, Star, Sunny, Cirno, Clownpiece, Lily and "the big fairy". I'm kinda disappointed because I'm pretty sure she'll show up in Visionnary Fairies in Shrine's next issue this summer. I really wanted her to be a butterfly youkai instead of a fairy. Beggars can't be choosers I guess.
She's a butterfly fairy, so she still counts as she bug.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 04:14:44 am
Seeing screenshots of choosable options after Character Select, i.e., Something + Something, where the bottom something is changeable. What is this?
(   .w.)/ it dis
You can select which Season options you want when selecting your player character. Spring converts bullets into Season items and grants brief invincibility, Winter serves as a temporary barrier and grants increased attack, Autumn converts bullets into Season items and increases your speed, and Summer's bullet-clear is small and brief but only consumes one option at a time.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lebon14 on May 07, 2017, 04:15:14 am
She's a butterfly fairy, so she still counts as she bug.

She still has "fairy" in her species. That's where I'm getting at.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nyxnyx on May 07, 2017, 04:15:42 am
Then let's say we have a lion girl!
Butterfly and lion now, what kind of beasts will the 3 unrevealed be? Hmm

I think the final boss will be a genuiue youkai though.

But Cirno seems to get way stronger than fairies, excluding clownpiece. Since she's out to resolve an incident, something that only some of the strongest members of gensokyo are capable of. Aya has always been powerful so that doesn't change much for her, however.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 04:16:43 am
(   .w.)/ it dis

Oh neat!

On a musical note, nothing so far has really jumped out at me, save for our Mountain Hag's theme, which is pretty rad.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 07, 2017, 04:19:44 am
Then let's say we have a lion girl!
Butterfly and lion now, what kind of beasts will the 3 unrevealed be? Hmm

I think the final boss will be a genuiue youkai though.

But Cirno seems to get way stronger than fairies, excluding clownpiece. Since she's out to resolve an incident, something that only some of the strongest members of gensokyo are capable of. Aya has always been powerful so that doesn't change much for her, however.
Shisa are like lion/dog hybrids.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 07, 2017, 04:22:07 am
Oh neat!

On a musical note, nothing so far has really jumped out at me, save for our Mountain Hag's theme, which is pretty rad.

I hope to be able to hear them soon!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 07, 2017, 04:31:54 am
but since ZUN straight-up put the word '変態' in her profile he's probably well aware of how the JP fandom's gonna memeify the poor gal.

Or maybe ZUN is actually saying she's embodying insect growth, rebirth and metamorphosis?

'変態' does means "pervert" in Chinese - which is what Japanese Kanji is based on. But '変態' can also mean "metamorphosis", as in the stage where a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly (basically an insect's equivalent of puberty), and the inner pervert in most people automatically assumed it means "pervert". A case of "one word having multiple meanings", which is more common in Asian languages like Chinese, Japanese and Korean than it is in English.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on May 07, 2017, 04:43:47 am
Here be somebody's day 1 Normal 1cc. Spoilers! (https://youtu.be/Po7PS76k_1M)

(All music is Bangin'™, those stage themes in particular.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ZM on May 07, 2017, 04:45:44 am
Demo Lunatic 1cc with ReimuWinter, every spell captured except the last. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84cQny_7fiM)

This is really fun~ Still learning.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 04:48:35 am
Or maybe ZUN is actually saying she's embodying insect growth, rebirth and metamorphosis?

'変態' does means "pervert" in Chinese - which is what Japanese Kanji is based on. But '変態' can also mean "metamorphosis", as in the stage where a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly (basically an insect's equivalent of puberty), and the inner pervert in most people automatically assumed it means "pervert". A case of "one word having multiple meanings", which is more common in Asian languages like Chinese, Japanese and Korean than it is in English.

Oh, duh, now that I actually Google it the Japanese Wikipedia article says this exact thing. Thank u

edit: the 'no music room' thing one JP poster reported may simply be a menu glitch, now that i think about it
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on May 07, 2017, 04:49:32 am
Wait wait wait... how much of a power boost does Winter give you? Is it enough to make up for the lost options lol
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on May 07, 2017, 04:56:11 am
So I've compiled some info based on very rough translation of the game text and personal experience.

(first three season items are just recolors of the same pellet-esque sprite.)
(all releases will convert bullets in their radius into season items)

Reimu - Spring. Items are cherry petals.
Spell Card: Spirit Sign "Fantasy Sakura Seal"
It's Fantasy Seal but pink.

Shots (for both main and sub): Breezy Cherry Blossom
Entirely homing shots (outside of amulets)
(generally they mimic the characteristics of the original shots)

SPRING OPTION RELEASE: Has very large area, changes bullets into PiV and more season items. Invulnerable during use.

Tanned Cirno - Summer. Items are green leaves.
Spell Card: Ice Sign "Cool Sunflower"
SA MarisaB's bomb, but bigger. Also maybe lasts longer.

Shots (for both main and sub): Perfect Summer Ice
Spread shots, diagonal split like in SA MariB
SUMMER OPTION RELEASE: Extremely short radius and time, but only consumes one option.

Aya - Fall. Items are fall leaves.
Spell Card: Wind Sign "Tengu Burst Storm"
Vertical area of damage initially angled based on your movement. Slightly moves in your direction when active.

Shots (for both main and sub): Crazy Fall Wind
The new needles. The main shot pierces when focusing.
FALL OPTION RELEASE: The circle of release centers around you and moves with you. Hyper-speed during usage.

Marisa - Winter. Items are snowflakes!
Spell Card: Love Sign "Master Spark Frozen"
It's a Master Spark but blue and with a giant snowflake symbol.

Shots (for both main and sub): Extreme Winter
Illusion Laser. No piercing.
WINTER OPTION RELEASE: Stationary barrier, your shots power up during duration and you are invulnerable to bullets (?)
This power boost only seems to compensate for lost options.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 05:06:32 am
updated
System:
- Graze and speedkilling enemies creates Season items
- Season items fill up gauge
- When it fills up one level you gain a bonus option
- Up to 6 bonus options
- Can press the Release button to get rid of bonus options and a circle spawns around where you press it
- Release circle cancels bullets and you gain point value based on how much you cancel, and also canceled bullets give you Season items back
- Effectiveness of Release depends on what your level is; the behaviour depends on subweapon
- Release can deal a ton of damage holy cow

Spring Release uses all levels, size of circle depends on level, and disappears quickly. You also become invincible. Spell Cards fail instantly.
Summer Release uses only one level, creates a small circle, and disappears quickly. Spell Cards do not fail.
Autumn Release uses all levels, creates a small circle that follows you, and lasts longer depending on level. You can also go fast. Spell Cards fail if you run into the boss.
Winter Release uses all levels, creates a small circle that shields you, and lasts longer depending on level. Your shot power also increases a ton. Spell Cards do not fail.

Having canceled bullets give you back Season items means that if done properly you can milk for point value. Summer seems especially good for this.

EDIT: updated again to include spell card bonus info
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on May 07, 2017, 05:08:48 am
updated
Having canceled bullets give you back Season items means that if done properly you can milk for point value.
Does release affect spellcard bonuses?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 07, 2017, 05:11:45 am
Does release affect spellcard bonuses?
fails the card as if you bombed if you bomb after the card begins. so if you bomb before and it lasts into the card it doesn't remove the bonus
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 05:17:11 am
Summer keeps it. It might be a bug but it does.

Doing damage to the boss with Release is what fails the card. This means Spring will easily fail cards at high levels, Autumn will fail if you ram into the boss, but Summer and Winter are fine.

Spring fails immediately
Summer is fine
Fall will if you ram into the boss
Winter is fine
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 07, 2017, 05:22:43 am
Just played the trial

im already in love with the stage 1 boss theme

as for the bingo:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_MzEzGXoAAuGap.jpg)


Lily White is a stage 3 midboss
The game has a sync issue with replays
3rd one is just my opinion >_>
Stage 1 boss (the butterfly we saw on the disc) has short blue hair
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Chill Observer on May 07, 2017, 05:23:44 am
Here's a hard mode playthrough. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvxneK0F78Y)

Overall, the difficulty feels right. Flashbomb mechanic seems interesting too. It'll take me some time to get used to, but that's alright.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: jhun on May 07, 2017, 05:33:31 am
The return of the curvy lasers rip.

Also, the return of Yuugi's Stage 3 horn
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2017, 05:41:27 am
Can't start the game. Always get the same error message, lots of japanese characters with "DirectImput" and "Direct3D" being the only words in english. Any ideas what it might be and how to combat it?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 05:43:10 am
Interesting: custom.exe is in english here. Maybe it detects an english locale? OS language?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 05:43:10 am
Can't start the game. Always get the same error message, lots of japanese characters with "DirectImput" and "Direct3D" being the only words in english. Any ideas what it might be and how to combat it?

Sounds like a graphics card thing?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2017, 05:45:04 am
Interesting: custom.exe is in english here. Maybe it detects an english locale?

I'm actually running a japanese locale, and custom is still in english.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on May 07, 2017, 05:46:44 am
Interesting: custom.exe is in english here. Maybe it detects an english locale? OS language?
The custom.exe didn't seem to do anything on my end, e.g. changing the resolution does nothing.

This game has really fun mechanics, wow.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 07, 2017, 05:47:04 am
Can't start the game. Always get the same error message, lots of japanese characters with "DirectImput" and "Direct3D" being the only words in english. Any ideas what it might be and how to combat it?

Destroy your computer and buy another one

that's the only way to combat the issue
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2017, 05:49:43 am
The custom.exe didn't seem to do anything on my end, e.g. changing the resolution does nothing.

I think I get it. I had this problem with some other TH games when they refused to load on fullscreen. But here I can't actually make the game losd windowed, because custom.exe isn't connected to the game :(

Is it possible to force load an application windowed?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on May 07, 2017, 05:52:36 am
lol I found the problem with custom.exe.
Touhou 16's config files are in %appdata%\ShanghaiAlice\th16tr\
but custom.exe saves to %appdata%\ShanghaiAlice\th16\

I think I get it. I had this problem with some other TH games when they refused to load on fullscreen. But here I can't actually make the game losd windowed, because custom.exe isn't connected to the game :(

Is it possible to force load an application windowed?
Try copying the th16.cfg from the appdata th16 folder to th16tr.
What's your screen resolution?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: the old guy on May 07, 2017, 05:57:30 am
Etarnity's design: Awww, how cute!

Nemuno's design: Isn't she supposed to look like an old lady? Looks ugly tbh.

Aunn's design: I didn't like at it at first, but then i saw fan artist's drawings of it. Now i'm a fan.

Wow, just after i was complaining about people complaining about Touhou, i complained about Touhou.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 07, 2017, 06:01:55 am
lol I found the problem with custom.exe.
Touhou 16's config files are in %appdata%\ShanghaiAlice\th16tr\
but custom.exe saves to %appdata%\ShanghaiAlice\th16\
Try copying the th16.cfg from the appdata th16 folder to th16tr.
What's your screen resolution?

"th16"

Then that means he must've installed that troll download
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2017, 06:03:05 am
Yup, it worked. Thanks a lot.

Got it running on fullscreen at 960x720 resolution.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 07, 2017, 06:09:49 am
Also nice job at not responding to my helpful method of getting the game to work :^(
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 07, 2017, 06:16:24 am
aargh i'm very happy, i really love etanity's theme
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 07, 2017, 06:24:07 am
Apparently, Stage 3 takes place at the Hakurei Shrine, and Komano was just trying to guard it due to her nature as a Komainu...

So maybe Komano will be joining Suika and Shinmyoumaru (and Mima, Kana and Ellen if you count the PC-98 games) as a new permanent resident of the Hakurei Shrine?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 06:31:13 am
It notes in the manual that you only get Season items from enemies if you kill them quickly. Speedkilling ahoy.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Chill Observer on May 07, 2017, 06:34:45 am
Score extends (in millions:): 5, 10, 20, 40, 70, 100, 150, 250.

We don't know what else beyond that yet. Highest known score is 175m on lunatic.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 06:37:35 am
I am thoroughly enjoying the Season items thing. Especially when beating a spellcard using them generates enough to refill the gauge.

It's like TD only fun.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 07, 2017, 06:50:55 am
I haven't seen a post yet on it, but will the digital demo be available sometime or is it already out? Really curious about the music!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on May 07, 2017, 06:53:41 am
Everything so far seems so much fun!  The first 3 stages seem kind of easier than, let's say, LoLK or DDC, but considering how ZUN usually adjusts de difficulty between the demo and full releases, I'm certainly looking forward to how the full version will be!

That being said, the 2nd stage boss is tons of fun.  Plus, a mountain hag!  That was one youkai I wasn't expecting to see.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 07, 2017, 07:09:06 am
Watched a few gameplay videos and wow the music's good in this one. I especially like the first stage boss and second stage themes. Art is better than LoLK and the level of shot-type customization's definitely a first for Touhou. I'm definitely looking forward to the full game now.

Also the return of Lily White. You can't have a game about seasons without her. Let's see if ZUN brings back more older characters...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 07, 2017, 07:12:14 am
Apparently, Stage 3 takes place at the Hakurei Shrine, and Komano was just trying to guard it due to her nature as a Komainu...

So maybe Komano will be joining Suika and Shinmyoumaru (and Mima, Kana and Ellen if you count the PC-98 games) as a new permanent resident of the Hakurei Shrine?

Seriously?

that sounds pretty awesome
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 07:16:53 am
Cirno's bomb seems to be ... crazy long. Like Fantasy Seal long.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Chill Observer on May 07, 2017, 07:17:01 am
There's a way to fix replay desyncing: you must select the shot type option you used in your replay first, then exit to title screen and watch the replay.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 07:25:22 am
Going to mention that fairies are a prominent part of the game because as embodiments of nature they are being messed with hard due to the incident affecting seasons. This is the main rationale behind Cirno, Etarnity, Lily, etc.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 07, 2017, 07:27:43 am
Very happy for those who uploaded gameplay and an ost already. This music I like right off the bat. (Hmm~ that title music!) Checked ZUN's site and no demo yet, but not too worried now I can listen to the songs.

Going to mention that fairies are a prominent part of the game because as embodiments of nature they are being messed with hard due to the incident affecting seasons. This is the main rationale behind Cirno, Etarnity, Lily, etc.

I kinda figured that was the case when I saw lily white, she's never around unless something is up with seasons or fairies.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2017, 07:28:38 am
Using flashbomb draws all items on screen to you, so if there are a lot of season items on screen and you are sitting at max releases already, it would be actually free (or very close to free). I think you can use them freely just to grab items if you have four or five of them.

Season items gained from graze might be actually pretty hard to collect, they spawn so far away from your character. If you are getting crazy graze from somewhere, it might be viable to just flashbomb for both points and collection.

That all said... wtf flashbombs? In my Touhou? It's all Yabusame's fault, I'm sure about that XD
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 07, 2017, 07:30:06 am
Wish I could try it out but away from home right now, sounds fun from what everyone's saying.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: gilde on May 07, 2017, 07:39:42 am
i finished translating the manual & character profiles over on the touhou wiki & am going to Flop Into Bed for now & squeal extensively over the music and danmaku tomorrow, probably

also uhhhh according to the manual, power items become point items in all but appearance when you're at max power, wowza
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 07, 2017, 07:42:46 am
English patch when
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on May 07, 2017, 07:43:03 am
So........ If you bomb at the end of a nonspell the bomb will carry over into the spellcard. And it'll steal do full damage, or at the very least your shots still do damage. With Cirno's bomb that means you can pretty much clear every spell in the game without dodging, except for the third boss's last spell (since the direction she jumps in appears to be random and you have to place your bomb on one side or the other to do the most damage).

Combine this with Aya's flashbomb that lets you get right up next to the boss during the nonspell..... yeaaaaaah....
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 07, 2017, 07:50:13 am
now here's a question

what theme is the best so far?? i gotta say etanity's theme is the coolest!!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 07:55:22 am
now here's a question

what theme is the best so far?? i gotta say etanity's theme is the coolest!!

Hag's theme is doing it for me.

So........ If you bomb at the end of a nonspell the bomb will carry over into the spellcard. And it'll steal do full damage, or at the very least your shots still do damage. With Cirno's bomb that means you can pretty much clear every spell in the game without dodging, except for the third boss's last spell (since the direction she jumps in appears to be random and you have to place your bomb on one side or the other to do the most damage).

Combine this with Aya's flashbomb that lets you get right up next to the boss during the nonspell..... yeaaaaaah....

I've been hitting Seasons towards the end of every non-spell and spell, refilling that gauge all over again. For that purpose, Winter has been working well, although I like Spring and Summer most overall.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Karisa on May 07, 2017, 08:02:48 am
Score extends (in millions:): 5, 10, 20, 40, 70, 100, 150, 250.

We don't know what else beyond that yet. Highest known score is 175m on lunatic.
There's always testing in Cheat Engine. I don't have the setup to do it myself right now, but score addresses are easy enough to find. It's typically (since PCB) a 32-bit integer that's 1/10 of the displayed score.

By the way I think ZUN underestimated bomb-grazing once again. Try using Aya's bomb to the side of a boss, then overlapping the boss...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 07, 2017, 08:04:14 am
now here's a question

what theme is the best so far?? i gotta say etanity's theme is the coolest!!

Most of them for me actually! But I do like the title and Etarnity's theme!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Shizzo on May 07, 2017, 08:04:29 am
Cirno's bomb seems to be ... crazy long. Like Fantasy Seal long.

Her's and Aya's.  I'm not sure which of them lasts longer but you can definitely take your sweet time before the invulnerability wears off.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Piranha on May 07, 2017, 08:08:24 am
Wow, the new character designs look really good IMO (especially Etanity+Nemuno)

Music:
Stage 1 - Possibly my favorite Stage 1 theme since TD and SA, I like the beep in the background and the ZUNpets, of course.
Etanity - Pretty surprised because it sounds a lot more dramatic and melancholic than you would think of a Stage 1 boss. Awesome track.
Stage 2 - Can't put my finger on it, but it reminds me of another theme (probably from LOLK/DDC). Still, I like it very much.
Nemuno - This doesn't really sound like a stage 2 boss, reminds me more of Seija or the extra bosses, pretty intense.
Stage 3 + Komano - Nice themes, but I like the ones before more this time around
 
For such an (potentially) upbeat story, the themes sound pretty intense this time.
Unrelated to music, i looove how stage 3 feels, colors, enemies, patterns and everything.

So, are we really getting 16 shot types, or just 4 with the same 4 gimmicks to choose from?

what theme is the best so far??

Etanity, closely followed by stage 1 theme, though Nemuno's is pretty good too. Hell, all of the themes are pretty awesome this time.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 08:09:34 am
So........ If you bomb at the end of a nonspell the bomb will carry over into the spellcard. And it'll steal do full damage, or at the very least your shots still do damage. With Cirno's bomb that means you can pretty much clear every spell in the game without dodging, except for the third boss's last spell (since the direction she jumps in appears to be random and you have to place your bomb on one side or the other to do the most damage).

Combine this with Aya's flashbomb that lets you get right up next to the boss during the nonspell..... yeaaaaaah....
This is likely unintentional. If you were around during the release of the UFO demo, the same problem would occur where a bomb from SanaeB used right before the card started would clear basically everything while keeping the Spell Card Bonus. Later ZUN fixed this by making cards invulnerable if there was a bomb active, which is why in recent games you often see people avoiding hitting the boss too much if they have to bomb a noncard. In the game scripts I'm pretty sure it's just one instruction, so he probably just forgot.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ZM on May 07, 2017, 08:20:56 am
With a well-timed flashbomb, you can completely skip Nemuno's final spell. Example. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0IHUEgnkU0)

How silly.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 08:26:40 am
yeah see i bet that would be fixed if he threw in that invul instruction too lol
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Monaco on May 07, 2017, 08:43:26 am
now here's a question

what theme is the best so far?? i gotta say etanity's theme is the coolest!!

Personally, my favourite is the stage 1 theme. It's a nice, funky, slightly jazzy song, and very fitting for a stage 1 theme.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tsalop on May 07, 2017, 08:44:09 am
After playing the trial, I am liking this so far, and I am currently uploading a video of my Cirno run (EASY)...
Anyway, the usage of the 'C' button still makes me wonder what it should do actually.

I wish somebody would draw a picture of Nemuno riding Komano like in those Napoleon pictures...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Mino ☆ on May 07, 2017, 08:46:41 am
Wow! I'm really quite liking this game so far. The whole mixing and matching with the shottypes and seasons is really cool! You can like create your own combination which suits you.
The game is more lax than LoLK in terms of difficulty, which is honestly refreshing. This game kinda feels like MoF/SA difficulty.
The flash bombs and scoring system seems interesting.

Also, here's a No Miss No Bomb No Release Lunatic 1cc I did earlier (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izrUSlOEe1w)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: GuppyForce on May 07, 2017, 08:58:13 am
Wow! I'm really quite liking this game so far. The whole mixing and matching with the shottypes and seasons is really cool! You can like create your own combination which suits you.
The game is more lax than LoLK in terms of difficulty, which is honestly refreshing. This game kinda feels like MoF/SA difficulty.
The flash bombs and scoring system seems interesting.

Also, here's a No Miss No Bomb No Release Lunatic 1cc I did earlier (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izrUSlOEe1w)
Wow somebody other than me who doesn't think the game is really easy (though MoF/SA is a strange pair to compare it with). For some reason I've having more difficulty focusing on the bullets than usual. I'm not sure if it's the backgrounds or the season items from the graze or something else entirely. Music isn't really doing it for me with the exception of Etanity's theme which has a great intro/background line. Stage 2 boss theme in particular sounds like a total mess
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 07, 2017, 09:08:31 am
Decided to play all characters on Normal mode right off the bat - the difficulty indeed has been considerably toned down in comparison to LoLK. This game feels actually really refreshing, nothing too hard, but there are few tricky spots to be figured out. The subweapon selection kinda makes this similar to IN's partnering system if you ask me, plus each character having their own unique season items, which I also find pretty neat.

First impressions:
- ZUN's outdone himself on the in-game portraits and music. I really like the facial expressions in this.
- Backgrounds are really well done too, especially the wobbly air in stage 1 and the mountains in stage 2.
- I never thought that a stage 1 boss out of all would now become my favorite character of the demo. She looks really adorable, and her theme has a kinda mysterious undertone.
- Wow goddamn that stage 2 boss and her theme are freaking creepy, but I like it! So she's a mountain hag? Looking forward to know more about her once translations are up.
- Unexpectedly light-hearted theme for a stage 3 boss. She looks kinda strange compared to what we had in Touhou this far, but is adorable nonetheless. Her attacks tend to be quite tricky though, but is still a step down from Doremy difficulty-wise.

Liking everything in this demo so far  :)

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: The Anti-Person on May 07, 2017, 09:14:19 am
This game is very cool. I love how it has an original feel yet it also has throwbacks.
The seasonical minibombs remind me of SA and MoF and I find the customizable shottypes amazing.

Zun really likes having customizable stuff nowadays, since AoCF will also have custom pairs for versus. (but I think they're gonna be static for story mode)

Also what's the best shottype in your opinion? I find Reimu Winter the best myself.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tsalop on May 07, 2017, 09:17:46 am
Yeah, the game indeed feels much easier than few of the previous ones and also I think I have never seen so much variety in the enemies so early in the game...
Anyway I have uploaded my easy Cirno run (made two simple mistakes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqsfEluJNpk&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 07, 2017, 09:27:01 am
Decided to play all characters on Normal mode right off the bat - the difficulty indeed has been considerably toned down in comparison to LoLK. This game feels actually really refreshing, nothing too hard, but there are few tricky spots to be figured out. The subweapon selection kinda makes this similar to IN's partnering system if you ask me, plus each character having their own unique season items, which I also find pretty neat.

First impressions:
- ZUN's outdone himself on the in-game portraits and music. I really like the facial expressions in this.
- Backgrounds are really well done too, especially the wobbly air in stage 1 and the mountains in stage 2.
- I never thought that a stage 1 boss out of all would now become my favorite character of the demo. She looks really adorable, and her theme has a kinda mysterious undertone.
- Wow goddamn that stage 2 boss and her theme are freaking creepy, but I like it! So she's a mountain hag? Looking forward to know more about her once translations are up.
- Unexpectedly light-hearted theme for a stage 3 boss. She looks kinda strange compared to what we had in Touhou this far, but is adorable nonetheless. Her attacks tend to be quite tricky though, but is still a step down from Doremy difficulty-wise.

Liking everything in this demo so far  :)


Stage 2 boss adopts any children she comes across for unknown reasons.  Imagine the fan stuff potential!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 07, 2017, 09:30:29 am
Stage 2 boss adopts any children she comes across for unknown reasons.  Imagine the fan stuff potential!
"moshi moshi keisatsu desu ka?" :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Catmusica on May 07, 2017, 09:30:52 am
This game...is great!!!! It has a very different atmosphere than the rest if the series but it gives me like a remastered pc98 feel. Music is great. I ended up clearing with reimu my first run now i really wanna try out aya and cirno for sure. As far as danmaku goes i cant tell if its harder or easier but seems easier to me. 2nd boss was really fun and others were as well but sometimes i felt like the danmaku on the stages were kind of sloppy but still nice. I think instead of normal ill play on hard for this one. Cirno looks like she wants to fight somebody hahaha
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 07, 2017, 09:46:33 am

That all said... wtf flashbombs? In my Touhou? It's all Yabusame's fault, I'm sure about that XD

LOL Len'En reference  :V

That said, I wonder if ZUN is aware of JynX and the Len'En series?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: game2011 on May 07, 2017, 09:52:29 am
LOL Len'En reference  :V

That said, I wonder if ZUN is aware of JynX and the Len'En series?
I'm sure he doesn't live under a rock.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Spectral Nexus on May 07, 2017, 10:34:51 am
Wow, what a demo this was!

Great job ZUN, I'm super excited to see what comes next!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Suspicious person on May 07, 2017, 10:44:18 am
Had a go at the game, and it's pretty enjoyable indeed. Difficulty feels pretty tame and the patterns doesn't feel especially difficult nor stressful (Doremy's nons still haunt me). Heck, most of the deaths I had were either me screwing around in stage 1 or accidentally walking into random bullets. The customizable shot thingy seems pretty neat as well, you can experiment various combinations and see which one you're most comfortable with. Gotta say though, playing spring Reimu with spring options on stage 3 reeeeeeaaaaaaaaally fills everything with pink color (background and cherry petals(?)) and can make dodging the pink bullets a wee bit confusing. Not a big deal really, but just a tiny nitpick.

Dunno what to say about the characters for now, but it'd be cool to see... """Etanity Larva""" in VFiS one of these days...but srsly, what kind of name is thaaaat she could be named Cuterpie and it'd work better tbh

I really like the music in this game as well, especially stage 1 : it has so much stuff in it : that piano, bass, good olde ZUNpets and a wee bit of theme of eastern story, but it's those chiptune soundbits that does it for me : pretty chill and relaxing theme, not too energic, not too catchy : not tiring to listen. When it comes to lighthearted sounding themes, ZUN has, for better or for worse, the habit of making things sound too high pitched (ie : misty lake, Seiran theme, childlike duo off the top of my head), which isn't the case for this one. The various instruments don't clash badly with each other either : simply magnificent. And from what I can hear from some tracks, there seems to be a comeback of TD's percussions ? Anyway, I like the sound of it and I'm looking forward to see what kind of magic ZUN's gonna work up for the final version. Looking forward to the arranges !
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: andykhang on May 07, 2017, 10:49:41 am
The game is overall good, the music, for me, take a time to get used to but when you do, it's great. Character design is ZUN's level like usual, but it's expressive (also i like Aunn the best!), since I play Normal i don't know much, but the game is pretty easy (then again, I have to used a continue...)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on May 07, 2017, 11:18:35 am
Oh yeah, a subtle change is that bombing makes you PoC at max value now. ZUN really wants to push this game's scoring potential.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Piranha on May 07, 2017, 11:34:22 am
After I listened to it a few more times, that stage 3 theme just feels so relaxing, especially the middle part. 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Hainiryuun on May 07, 2017, 11:44:34 am
Played for about an hour and got a Normal 1CC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd77ue1yWAs) and a Lunatic 1CC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DISzJ651aJk). Game is certainly a lot easier than the previous couple of games. I'd say it's probably around MoF's difficulty. Music was great, as always and the gameplay was fun. The only real issue I had was when playing as Spring, the leafs falling for the release were kind of hard to differentiate between the green bullets on stage one. Overall, a very great demo, though!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Wrathful_Scythe on May 07, 2017, 11:56:24 am
I love this game already. After I needed some time to get used to LoLK, this game found itself already a place in my heart. The music, the characters, the mechanics, everythings great. Only thing I noticed is, that the screen gets cluttered with stuff. Now with the flashbomb points it can get really straining on the eyes. Though, I might just no be used to it.

I am really looking forward to see the rest of the game and will play this demo a lot more after my exams.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 07, 2017, 12:18:39 pm
Touhou 16 feels like a part in the PCB arc, which has been lately revisited story-wise in TD and DDC without much of the feel of the source material. I'm glad to see this style make a comeback with modern tools.
But most importantly, it feels really original. It's fresh but made from familiar elements.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on May 07, 2017, 12:44:37 pm
Backgrounds are awesome. Music is awesome. Characters are awesome.

Also, first three stages are summer-autumn-spring. Next one is likely to be winter. Letty for final boss confirmed?..
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 07, 2017, 12:53:09 pm
What is the sound font like? Is it more DDC/LoLK style? Or has he changed it once again?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Spectral Nexus on May 07, 2017, 01:11:09 pm
What is the sound font like? Is it more DDC/LoLK style? Or has he changed it once again?
From what I can hear, I believe he's using:

The SD-90 (obviously),
Groove Agent ONE and Retrologue, which he used for LoLK and the new CDs.
I also think I can hear some Trilian synth bases, like Atlas Sphere and Flitter(?) for Nemuno's theme, in addition to RealLPC for that DDC rock guitar.
Furthermore, the piano he uses seems to be Steinberg the Grand III -- the same as Membrane Wall of Taboo.
Therefore, his predominant soundfont choice seems to be similar to that of LoLK (or the newest CDs to be more precise), with Nemuno's theme being a DDC-LoLK hybrid of sorts.

However, there're some instruments I can't put my finger on just yet, like the instruments playing the main melodies for the title theme, Etarnity's theme and the Stg 2 theme, as well as the underlying bass synths for Stg 3's theme. Something tells me some of them are just Trilian presets I haven't heard yet, but some of them definitely seem quite new, especially the title theme's instruments.

EDIT: The title theme instruments are actually mostly SD-90 presets. I didn't know because I don't own one so I couldn't check. :P
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 01:13:38 pm
The music is definitely growing on me the more I play, especially Stage 1.

In terms of subweapons, Spring and Summer really seem to be the way to go here. Though I get a feeling I may change my tune in later stages.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 07, 2017, 01:17:41 pm
So more DDC/LoLK some music? Ergh. Well, I'm optimistic for the gameplay, at least, based on what's been said so far.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Karisa on May 07, 2017, 01:32:44 pm
Oh yeah, a subtle change is that bombing makes you PoC at max value now. ZUN really wants to push this game's scoring potential.
That's not new-- it's existed since DDC (and since UFO, items have been worth full value when auto-collected in any way; it's just that bombs didn't auto-collect in UFO and TD).

Trial version scoreboard (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20776.0.html) is up, by the way. I've been doing some experimental Normal Aya Winter attempts. Alternating Aya bomb-grazing with Winter spawn-point cancels gives a nice PIV rate on bosses, though I'm not sure that's the best combination.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 07, 2017, 01:40:35 pm
From what I can hear, I believe he's using:
(...)

I love you for this.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: lolpudding on May 07, 2017, 01:57:11 pm
Well, I waited until the demo was released to draw any conclusions and I must say, this was much more than I expected. I really enjoyed the music, especially the third boss stage theme. The game mechanics aren't too complicated and the difficulty is simple, which is pretty nice. The character designs are strange yet cute and original. I really love this demo and I can't wait for the full version.

By the way, that third stage boss seems rather familiar to me. Is she something from Buddhist mythology?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 07, 2017, 02:05:35 pm
I've been messing around a bit with the different shottype combinations and came to notice that the release effect (flashbomb) is different with each subweapon, not main player:

Spring: appears only very briefly fixed on its initial location (doesn't move with the player). The higher the gauge level, the larger the radius. Release at level 6 to wipe the screen clean, but then completely empties the gauge after use.
Summer: also only very briefly and stationary, but has only a very small radius. However, using it once only empties one level the gauge (e.g. releasing on level 6 will decrease the gauge to level 5), so cheesing ahoy!
Autumn: SANIC SPEED The higher the gauge level, the longer it lasts. Its radius is slightly larger than the Summer one, and slightly shrinks as it is active. When unfocused, the player will be able to move at a very high speed (like ReimuC in SA). It also moves along with the player. Empties the gauge to level 1 or completely (if used on level 1).
Winter: Same as autumn, but stays fixed on its initial location, thus acting like a bullet-eating shield.

All release bombs will autocollect all onscreen items, and don't cancel spell bonuses as long as their effect radius don't reach the boss.

Time to experiment more  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: CyberAngel on May 07, 2017, 02:06:13 pm
By the way, that third stage boss seems rather familiar to me. Is she something from Buddhist mythology?

She's a komainu - those lion-dog statues you can see near shrines.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Drake on May 07, 2017, 02:09:21 pm
I've been messing around a bit with the different shottype combinations and came to notice that the release effect (flashbomb) is different with each subweapon, not main player:
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1340370.html#msg1340370
System:
- Graze and speedkilling enemies creates Season items
- Season items fill up gauge
- When it fills up one level you gain a bonus option
- Up to 6 bonus options
- Can press the Release button to get rid of bonus options and a circle spawns around where you press it
- Release circle cancels bullets and you gain point value based on how much you cancel, and also canceled bullets give you Season items back
- Effectiveness of Release depends on what your level is; the behaviour depends on subweapon
- Release can deal a ton of damage holy cow

Spring Release uses all levels, size of circle depends on level, and disappears quickly. You also become invincible. Spell Cards fail instantly.
Summer Release uses only one level, creates a small circle, and disappears quickly. Spell Cards do not fail.
Autumn Release uses all levels, creates a small circle that follows you, and lasts longer depending on level. You can also go fast. Spell Cards fail if you run into the boss.
Winter Release uses all levels, creates a small circle that shields you, and lasts longer depending on level. Your shot power also increases a ton. Spell Cards do not fail.

Having canceled bullets give you back Season items means that if done properly you can milk for point value. Summer seems especially good for this.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 07, 2017, 02:10:53 pm
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1340370.html#msg1340370
Oops sorry, missed that because I wanted to avoid spoilers first  :ohdear:
Thanks for the notice!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 02:25:38 pm
Some kind soul also translated the manual and put it on the wiki (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hidden_Star_in_Four_Seasons/Translation#Manual), for future reference.

I've been doing some experimental Normal Aya Winter attempts. Alternating Aya bomb-grazing with Winter spawn-point cancels gives a nice PIV rate on bosses, though I'm not sure that's the best combination.

Whoah, that's a neat idea.

Also, I'm curious about the power of the subweapons themselves, i.e., the homing, spreadshot and so forth. Activating them is one thing, but they don't seem powerful as additional shots until you get to like 5 or something.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Ripaah on May 07, 2017, 02:29:33 pm
I bet that in stage 4 the Player Character will battle one of the heroes. Reimu's dialogue with Aunn hints this.

Maybe you battle the character from the option shot you choose. That's will be so cool~~
I really miss the Imperishable Night stage 4 battles...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on May 07, 2017, 02:33:39 pm
I presume "flashbomb" is a reference to some other shmup? (Len'en?)

The season collectibles are sometimes hard to distinguish against the background and the bullets. So much translucent stuff on the screen.
Getting extends is nearly impossible without flashbombing due to the perpetually low PIV, so that's something to get used to. nvm, just saw a gameplay video of someone getting 3 score extends on Easy without flashbombing.

I'm really looking forward to actually being able to do a Normal 1CC this time, lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 07, 2017, 02:33:57 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/AMEtCjt.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Monaco on May 07, 2017, 02:34:33 pm
Score extends (in millions:): 5, 10, 20, 40, 70, 100, 150, 250.

We don't know what else beyond that yet. Highest known score is 175m on lunatic.

I changed the scores in Cheat Engine, and the extends are 5, 10, 20, 40, 70, 100, 150, 250, 500, 1000.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: The Anti-Person on May 07, 2017, 02:43:21 pm
The summer minibomb is really good against bosses.
I wonder if the exboss will be immune to releases.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: WishMakers on May 07, 2017, 02:51:30 pm
Got my hands on this game this morning, and it is quite something.
I'm glad the difficulty was toned down a bit.  Still a fair challenge by the time Stage 3 comes along but not hair-pulling.
Now it's time to see how many videos are made of the game
For reference, I used Reimu + Summer shot type.  For survivability it sounds like a decent combo but the extra shots are...not stellar.
Looking forward to trying Reimu + Winter combo.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2017, 03:11:36 pm
I presume "flashbomb" is a reference to some other shmup? (Len'en?)

Len'en, yes. I mean, a short mini-bomb that doesn't deal damage, doesn't prevent you from getting spell card bonus and has a gauge filled by graze? While a bit different mechamically from Len'en, it's a flashbomb for all intents and purposes.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2017, 03:14:56 pm
Oh, music remixes already!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPEPVt_JIDE
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: dark36 on May 07, 2017, 03:18:59 pm
is it just me or does Lily White simply leaves after the midboss fight instead of having the "defeated" explosion?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 07, 2017, 03:21:20 pm
What is the sound font like? Is it more DDC/LoLK style? Or has he changed it once again?

This is a weird question because none of the games released by ZUN in the past 8 years sound much like each other, but first let me clarify that "Sound font" isn't synonymous with the set of instruments used in a game, it's the name of a very outdated proprietary format that no serious composer has used in like 20 years. The word you're probably looking for is instrumentation.  But yes, HSiFS doesn't quite sound the same as LoLK. Note that instrumentation and/or samples used alone don't definite how music will sound and feel.

BTW most of the info in Spectral Nexus' post is wrong and probably unnecessary...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 07, 2017, 03:21:33 pm
Oh, music remixes already!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPEPVt_JIDE
That was fast.
Not only release day fanarts but also release day arranges, and a pretty decent one at that, gj.

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: saisengen on May 07, 2017, 03:35:33 pm
Did someone make music rip?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 03:39:54 pm
Overall I'd say the music is reminiscent of DDC, at least in terms of choice of instruments and style of melodies. Which to me anyway is very encouraging. Hoping later stages have more memorable melodies.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: WindyKitsune on May 07, 2017, 03:43:35 pm
Some first impressions about Hidden Star in Four Seasons demo:
After playing games chronologically (almost) I decided it was time to give this demo a shot.

The first impact was obviously the intro: a sort of space trance music with powerful main theme, I really didn't expect something like that from a season-themed Touhou game; maybe it resembles IN intro. I don't know why but I find it quite disturbing (but certainly good).
About the music from the stages, I think is gorgeous! I already like every BGM.
First level BGM is cheerful and a bit fast-paced with a little twist.
Eta(r?)nity Larva's BGM is melanchonic with some dark notes but with feeling of calm in my opinion. Heavy percussions here (looking at Wriggle's BGM).
Second level BGM, here background is fast while the main theme slow and gradually goes climax; result is kinda sadness and happiness mixed.
Nemuno Sakata's BGM begins as badass song, resulting a non-continuous step by step progression: first melody, then second, then repeat.
Third level BGM, calm, peaceful, slow, with a discernable background; really contemplative.
Aunn Komano's BGM: mid-fast pace, sustained, sometimes seems being singed (maybe it really does?).

The higher resolution is good news, kana and that three-dimensionally flying flowers are displayed precisely. Even if sprites are somewhat pixelated I don't care, I really got habit playing games most part of screen and have no problems.

The general aspect during the game seems messy for my eyes at first impact: score items everywhere, fairies, bullets, shooting trailings, death decorations. Oh my God!
I've read that in MoF falling leaves are used as decoration but also as a visual element in the game to make it more difficult. At the moment I have this feeling for HSiFS. It will need some training to overcome it.

Another peculiarity in this game is the usage of Score Items, using them makes necessary to change my hand position in order to bomb with this and bombs mechanism; but it is painful...

I have nothing to say about shooting types and spellcard yet, I would prefer to play more before.


Oh, music remixes already!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPEPVt_JIDE
So fast, less than 24 hours... WOW.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Colticide on May 07, 2017, 03:53:02 pm
Overall I'd say the music is reminiscent of DDC, at least in terms of choice of instruments and style of melodies. Which to me anyway is very encouraging. Hoping later stages have more memorable melodies.

I'm hoping for stage 5 to give the best stage theme! DDC's stage 5 was such a tone shift in the beginning being very dark and mysterious! I loved it!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 04:00:51 pm
I'm hoping for stage 5 to give the best stage theme! DDC's stage 5 was such a tone shift in the beginning being very dark and mysterious! I loved it!

Yeah I really loved the way Stages 5 and 6 kind of comprised one longer song. I'd be amazing if he did that again for this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lebon14 on May 07, 2017, 04:08:32 pm
Clarste argues (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/160394625411/for-what-its-worth-etarnity-is-obviously-a-typo) that Etarnity's name is a typo and, even if it's not fixed in the full game, that her name should be "Eternity Larva" regardless. And I agree. If I had any Japanese skills, I'd try to ask ZUN on twitter.

EDIT

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Eternity_Larva#Name
Yup, her official profile says "Eternity Larva". So, we can stop with the typos already :P
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: lolpudding on May 07, 2017, 04:27:36 pm
She's a komainu - those lion-dog statues you can see near shrines.

Okay, thanks ^-^ No wonder she seemed familiar to me
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Giratina93 on May 07, 2017, 04:37:59 pm
Was I the only one who for a second thought the stage 2 boss was Sakuya undercover or something? The kunai and knives in her nonspells and final spellcard made me rather curious, though I guess that's just coincidence now.

Really liking how this game is shaping up. Definitely not as "WTF IS THIS?!" hard as DDC and LolK's demos, and much more enjoyable and less stressful than those two as well. Eternity Larvae is a fun first stage boss, Lily White's always pleasant to see, and the Komainu defending Reimu's shrine is an interesting touch, though I do wonder why she only shows up now and not earlier...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on May 07, 2017, 04:41:02 pm
Did someone make music rip?
I made a simple bgm file (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=82682962659656974238) for Touhou Music Room (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Game_Tools_and_Modifications#Touhou_Music_Room) so you can extract the music directly from the trial.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Spectral Nexus on May 07, 2017, 04:50:13 pm
This is a weird question because none of the games released by ZUN in the past 8 years sound much like each other, but first let me clarify that "Sound font" isn't synonymous with the set of instruments used in a game, it's the name of a very outdated proprietary format that no serious composer has used in like 20 years. The word you're probably looking for is instrumentation.  But yes, HSiFS doesn't quite sound the same as LoLK. Note that instrumentation and/or samples used alone don't definite how music will sound and feel.

BTW most of the info in Spectral Nexus' post is wrong and probably unnecessary...

I was only trying to help. :\
Care to enlighten me on the truth?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on May 07, 2017, 04:51:47 pm
I'm going to be the obligatory hater and say...

The music just isn't doing it for me. Maybe I'll enjoy it more over time, though. After playing it nonstop since last night, none of the songs have stuck in my head except for the stage one theme. All the songs feel a lot like DDC stage 4 in the sense that "these aren't bad but aren't worthy of further comment".

The patterns feel like a step down from LoLK too. This might just be because it's a demo, though. The stage 1 boss's attacks feel kiiiiiind of bland, but that's standard for a stage 1 boss. The stage 3 boss feels like something you'd see in a beginner danmakufu script, but it's still fun to dodge so I guess it's alright. The stage 2 boss is the one with the most uninspired stuff. The nons look like something out of a gore game- it's 100% streaming and racking up score, nothing to actually dodge. The spells feel pretty meh too... the second spell is flashy but just amounts to a mini/random "poison nail raze", and the final spell isn't special in any way. It'd fit on any boss, it's incredibly generic.

I feel like most of ZUN's effort this time went into the player and score systems.

THAT SAID that's kind of a good thing. The player system is FANTASTIC. I haven't had so much fun playing with shottypes in any game, not even BPoHC. And they seem MUCH more balanced than the previous games- every sub shot has its strengths and weaknesses, one isn't definitively better than another.

I'm very excited for the full game, as stage 3 already felt better than stages 1 or 2. And with the system already taken care of, a lot more focus will be placed on the patterns and music.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: saisengen on May 07, 2017, 05:02:00 pm
I made a simple bgm file (http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=82682962659656974238) for Touhou Music Room (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Game_Tools_and_Modifications#Touhou_Music_Room) so you can extract the music directly from the trial.
Thank you very much. How you did it?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Mikuru on May 07, 2017, 05:05:40 pm
I have to agree -- not really a fan of the TH16 music so far. Although I find I am liking the Stage 2 music a little bit more each time I hear it. And the boss 2 music is very atmospheric; just not something I would seek out and listen to outside the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 07, 2017, 05:07:07 pm
I'm going to be the obligatory hater and say...

The music just isn't doing it for me. Maybe I'll enjoy it more over time, though. After playing it nonstop since last night, none of the songs have stuck in my head except for the stage one theme. All the songs feel a lot like DDC stage 4 in the sense that "these aren't bad but aren't worthy of further comment".

The patterns feel like a step down from LoLK too. This might just be because it's a demo, though. The stage 1 boss's attacks feel kiiiiiind of bland, but that's standard for a stage 1 boss. The stage 3 boss feels like something you'd see in a beginner danmakufu script, but it's still fun to dodge so I guess it's alright. The stage 2 boss is the one with the most uninspired stuff. The nons look like something out of a gore game- it's 100% streaming and racking up score, nothing to actually dodge. The spells feel pretty meh too... the second spell is flashy but just amounts to a mini/random "poison nail raze", and the final spell isn't special in any way. It'd fit on any boss, it's incredibly generic.

I feel like most of ZUN's effort this time went into the player and score systems.

THAT SAID that's kind of a good thing. The player system is FANTASTIC. I haven't had so much fun playing with shottypes in any game, not even BPoHC. And they seem MUCH more balanced than the previous games- every sub shot has its strengths and weaknesses, one isn't definitively better than another.

I'm very excited for the full game, as stage 3 already felt better than stages 1 or 2. And with the system already taken care of, a lot more focus will be placed on the patterns and music.

I had very similar thoughts, but kinda pushed them back and said "it'll grow on me." Stage 1 is pretty impressive in all areas, but Stage 2 and Stage 3 were kind of a let down. However, there are two hopes I'm holding out on- first, someone said that Reimu's stage 3 dialogue hints at a battle against another player character. Second, in the Prologue it's stated that it's snowing in the Forest of Magic. Considering that the first three stages were based around summer, fall, and spring, respectively, it's a reasonable guess to think that Stage 4 will be based around winter. So, my best-case scenario guess is that there are multiple bosses in the Forest of Magic for Stage 4, and by that, I mean four bosses. Reimu fights Aya and vice-versa, and Marisa fights Cirno (they have opposing seasons.) This means 4 bosses... once again, that's my best-case scenario. Perhaps Marisa and Aya fights Cirno while Cirno and Reimu fight Aya, or something like that. Having Reimu and Marisa be the Stage 4A and 4B bosses again would be pretty lame. Or maybe it'll be Daiyousei. Who knows.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Chill Observer on May 07, 2017, 05:31:24 pm
I feel like most of ZUN's effort this time went into the player and score systems.
Even the scoring system this time got broken into pieces. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBgyE0mrjJk) It's amazing just how dumb this system is, honestly.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Serela on May 07, 2017, 05:33:55 pm
Shot type system is super cool. 'nuff said.

Summer options seem to be the easy method for survival as the cost is low; with good bullet density you can get a good chunk of a release back, too. Spring gets quite a bit back too once you hit lv3+ and has helpful clearing ability more similar to bombing (wheras Summer only saves you for a second), but it can be hard to get a significant amount back at lv2, and lv1 is weaker than a pop of Summer, so it'll run down quickly if you want to use it in succession and makes you spend bombs instead. Of course, that's reasonable, but it brings me to the next season.

Fall. It can be extremely effective, especially on high difficulties; it gets really easy to get 1~2 releases back from just spamming lv1~2 on basically any significant mass of bullets by ramming yourself through it at superspeed, so you can just spam it OVER AND OVER FOREVER. However, the cost is that you have to be careful not to murder yourself ramming into bullets after the duration runs out, and you still can't touch a boss or you'll die. It's a lot safer at high power, along with enough duration to keep your release count high if the bullet spawn is steady enough... but if you get used to the duration of lv1~2 they can sweep quite a bit already. Fall seems to be the high risk high reward option; you can cheese through high difficulty areas with next to no actual dodging... if you're good enough to not accidentally kill yourself doing it anyway.

I guess Spring is the much safer, but notably less spammable version of Fall, whilst Summer is ideal if you just need to throw up a shield occasionally. Summer probably works the best on easy/normal mode, where you can't get as much back with Spring/Fall anyway so you just want the lower cost, nor is the game crazy to where you need to try to abuse tons of flashbombs.

That leaves Winter... the duration is high, so in some cases you can probably get good power back, but overall it's the worst for successive use. Instead you can do a lot of damage if you drop it ontop of a boss, along with the laser's contribution to shot damage overall, and it's release effect of damage up. Not sure how I feel about this one yet? I should watch a replay of someone using Winter competently, I think.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ChronaSE on May 07, 2017, 05:36:45 pm
I'm so happy about the shot-types, they are fun. Specially Marisa's, I've always hated her missiles, glad that she's back at her prime.

Stage 4 obviously will be winter-themed, im hoping for Letty as mid-boss.

I greatly enjoyed the music, characters and the pretty background stages. Not sure how to feel about the 'flashbomb' thingie, it seems game-breaking.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Nyxnyx on May 07, 2017, 05:51:53 pm
Is it just me or Cirno is using a lot more "dase" in her dialogs in the demo?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: TresserT on May 07, 2017, 05:52:20 pm
I wonder if that rate the shot types thread should be revived at some point. Probably a bit after the dust has settled, but I'm interested in what people think on that topic.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: shockdude on May 07, 2017, 06:07:16 pm
Thank you very much. How you did it?
No problem. Made the bgm file using some Touhou extraction tools and wiki translation copy-pasting.

The flexibility of the shot types is fantastic. There's a combination for every playstyle.
I'll probably be using Marisa Autumn once the full game comes out. It's nice to see Marisa with powerful focused lasers again.

edit: lol thcrap's already gotten started on the translation patch. What a time to be alive.
(https://abload.de/img/th16_thcrapbdb3y.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Tengukami on May 07, 2017, 06:19:55 pm
Thr shot types are arguably the best part. Combine that with chaining refilling the season gauge and it gets more fun. Bomb fragments are frequent, and I think the score extends are challenging but fair. I think it's the right balance of simplicity and choice.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: ChronaSE on May 07, 2017, 06:42:16 pm
Saw a japanese niconico gameplay where the flashbomb feature gets pretty much abused in every spell and non-spell. Hopefully Zun puts a limit to its use in the full version.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Serela on May 07, 2017, 06:55:14 pm
It's probably going to see more balancing between demo and release; but it'll also still likely remain very powerful. See:MarisaB in DDC, SanaeB's bomb in UFO. They got nerfed, for sure. but MarisaB still got really silly in DDC lunatic/extra. They just weren't able to abuse spellcards to an absurd degree.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Jimmy on May 07, 2017, 07:59:01 pm
Mods:

Now where the demo is out, shouldn't the title of the thread be changed?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 07, 2017, 08:06:31 pm
Was glad to see that lily white was in the game
The music is neat with Etarnity and Menuno's themes being my key favorites

Also ZUN having people hit a certain score amount to earn a whole life is pretty relaxing and encouraging in a way

especially the number of bombs you can get

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYKQE9D5Op8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYKQE9D5Op8)

^^ My playthrough
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on May 07, 2017, 09:38:51 pm
Anyone knows if the spellcard names are translated somewhere?  I'm looking forward to seeing what they're called!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Nova234 on May 07, 2017, 10:14:44 pm
Just finished my first run (Aya/Fall Normal) and I have to say I like what I'm seeing so far.

The difficulty seems rather below average: nowhere near the "fall asleep while I'm playing" levels of easy that we saw in TD, but still not particularly hard - once I figured out how the release mechanics worked, I never really felt threatened outside of the curvy laser card. On a side note, curvy lasers are an unholy abomination against all that is good in this world, and should die in a fire. In any case, the difficulty does seem fairly reasonable, I guess I'll have to see how things turn out on Hard. Curvy lasers aside, most of the patterns were fun - Nemuno's nons got a bit repetitive, and some of the stage portions felt like retreads of LoLK's, but the rest were nice. The character visuals are pretty decent; it's good to see that ZUN's art is still improving, even if I'm not entirely sold on the character designs for the stage 2/3 bosses. The music doesn't seem especially remarkable, but a few of the songs did grab me. That stage 3 theme is wonderfully calm.

The shot type system is definitely the star of the show this time, though. I'm looking forward to tinkering with it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 07, 2017, 10:22:56 pm
Also ZUN having people hit a certain score amount to earn a whole life is pretty relaxing and encouraging in a way
This must be what he meant by "return to my roots with something that simply aims to make you feel good to play."

The shot type system is definitely the star of the show this time, though. I'm looking forward to tinkering with it.
Same. A lot more possibilities than before.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on May 07, 2017, 10:35:28 pm
Clarste argues (http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/160394625411/for-what-its-worth-etarnity-is-obviously-a-typo) that Etarnity's name is a typo and, even if it's not fixed in the full game, that her name should be "Eternity Larva" regardless. And I agree. If I had any Japanese skills, I'd try to ask ZUN on twitter.

EDIT

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Eternity_Larva#Name
Yup, her official profile says "Eternity Larva". So, we can stop with the typos already :P
You do realize you're using an editable wiki page as proof...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: shockdude on May 07, 2017, 11:20:50 pm
Thcrap now has the music room & manual translated.
...but the controls section is missing the description for the Release Key (C Key). Hopefully that gets resolved soon.
(https://abload.de/img/th16_controlsq2z1t.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Arcorann on May 08, 2017, 12:20:17 am
Did someone make music rip?

I suggest you bookmark this site (http://mayoiga-shiro.blogspot.com.au/search/label/%E6%9B%B2%E7%9B%AE%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB) since it usually updates with title files (for thbgmextractor) on the day of release (it already has th16 trial). I described how to configure thbgmextractor with an external encoder in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20624.msg1334228.html#msg1334228).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Hello Purvis on May 08, 2017, 01:10:06 am
Guys you're seeing it wrong, Nemuno actually has a cart.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on May 08, 2017, 01:14:01 am
Quote
Etarnity vs. Eternity
I trust in omake.txt and "Etanity". You can get more valid non-typo hits for "etanity", and Google won't even suggest it is a typo!

I kid, I kid. The point is, the instability of the spelling can be a strong sign for it being an error. The spelling would be more likely to be consistent when the writer himself knows the word with absolute certainty.

We can also compare Doremy's name. Her name is not only consistently spelt, it's written ドレミー in Japanese, with a rather unusual long vowel at the end; this suggests it has some special meaning beyond the musical scale "doremi" (ドレミ). And if we dig further, we can indeed find the Taito game "The Fairyland Story" has a red cap-wearing heroine called Ptolemy (トレミー), who starred in the very first game ZUN ever made (a Taito crossover).

Here our Stage 1 fairy's name is written エタニティ. While the word "eternity" is often transliterated エターニティー (two long vowels) or エターニティ, the long-vowelless version also shows up with enough frequency to be generic and meaningless.

These are just my observations; I don't care how people spell it, because her name is unlikely to turn out important. For the time being, I'm fine using all three.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 08, 2017, 01:32:22 am
Who cares if her name is spelled "Etanity" instead of Eternity?

The name itself might even be a meme
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: CyberAngel on May 08, 2017, 01:35:08 am
Instant headcanon: she saw the English word and thought it would be cool as a name, but since she's, well, a fairy, she forgot how to spell it properly.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: cuc on May 08, 2017, 02:19:03 am
komano the komainu (http://i.imgur.com/viQBW9P.jpg).

even i groaned at that one
Yes. Though written with different kanji, the "koma" in both is the same word stem, meaning "Goryeo", Goryeo being the name of several historical kingdoms on or near the Korean peninsula, and the etymology of the English word "Korea". Places called "Koma-something" (like "Komano") are named after ancient immigrants from the Korean peninsula, while "komainu" is named as such because stone lions are an Indian thing that came to Japan that way.

So this is like... having a German shepherd character with the surname "Germaine" or "Germanicus"?

the charas are so ill-defined in general it's like

you can literally pick specific incarnations of a character from different works in the same series and they won't be remotely consistent

there's a pretty famous chart (https://twitter.com/zweignw002/status/724248583554244608) comparing reimu's completely haphazard personalities across the various canon works and it's hilarious

just pick what you like from the franchise and ignore the rest, it's what zun does
Actually I agree with this if not 100%, at least 80%.

While there are some extremely well-defined, show-stealing personalities like Yuyuko, Touhou characters, *especially Reimu and Marisa*, are better seen as actresses like Osamu Tezuka's "star system", whose behaviors must fit the story they are in.

The remaining 20% is because some of this can be explained in-universe, chalked up to the stories being shaped by the perspectives they are told from, e.g. the main characters of WaHH and FS pretty much occupy the two ends of the Gensokyoan power hierarchy.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 08, 2017, 02:25:34 am
Question, do we aleardy have a jewel case? if so, i would like to see it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: teefa85 on May 08, 2017, 03:03:02 am
Instant headcanon: she saw the English word and thought it would be cool as a name, but since she's, well, a fairy, she forgot how to spell it properly.

That's a pretty cool idea.  And works.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: brocoli on May 08, 2017, 03:03:59 am
Plot prediction:

Global warming is causing winter to disappear from the real world. With the existence of winter becoming a fantasy of the past, the kami and youkai that represent it are all entering Gensokyo at the same time, causing its own cycle of seasons to be thrown out of whack.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 08, 2017, 03:04:21 am
Question, do we aleardy have a jewel case? if so, i would like to see it.
If we had a jewel case, you'd have heard. That's probably going to be the next- if only- big news drop we'll get. (I don't speak from experience, though, so don't trust my word.)

As for speculation... is anyone going to talk about this snippet from Reimu's scenario after beating Aunn?

"Is my intuition starting to fail me?
I've never had such a total lack of leads during an incident.
Or maybe... I overlooked something big
hidden among my previous opponents...?"

And then:

"A fairy, a mountain hag, a komainu...
Hrrmm... wait. Nah, no way.
Well, no, on the other hand..."

Is there any importance of a trio of a fairy, mountain hag, and komainu? (Also, this is probably unrelated, but the other big question I have from the demo is... what is the "Star of Hope" that is referred to in the Stage 1 theme, "A Star of Hope Rises in the Blue Sky?" more like a star of hype)

My only good theory upon the announcement was that the titular "hidden star" was a solar eclipse causing the strange weather by blocking out the sun, but that doesn't seem likely now. I'm still going to throw it out there, though, just in case there's a connection.

Also, Reimu's right- we still have little no idea what the latter half of the game is going to be like (short of a Winter-themed stage, likely the Forest of Magic.) Has there ever been a release with so little leads from the demo?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Alrysc on May 08, 2017, 03:09:30 am
If anything, I'd say it has to relate to some folk tale or legend of sorts. I don't know any, though, so I'm no help there.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on May 08, 2017, 03:34:27 am

Also, Reimu's right- we still have little no idea what the latter half of the game is going to be like (short of a Winter-themed stage, likely the Forest of Magic.) Has there ever been a release with so little leads from the demo?

Most Demos actually give very little information of how the plot is supposed to go.  Back in UFO many people thought that the flying ship was gonna house the last 3 stages of UFO, and I remember a talk of skypirates/gods hoarding treasure, too!  Hahaha

DDC also had many people in the dark since docile youkai turning aggressive was quite strange.

In the end it's quite hard to figure the plot without having the full game released.  For now we can speculate, but having an accurate guess about the plot is really tough.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lebon14 on May 08, 2017, 03:48:32 am
Youkais that has relation to weather or heavy dependence on weather that appeared in the past:
Letty Whiterock, Yuuka Kazami, Shizuha & Minoriko Aki and Iku Nagae.

I could see Letty being a midboss for a winter-based stage and the same for the Aki sisters for the Fall/Autumn themed stage. But I wouldn't bet on Yuuka and Iku appearing at all.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 08, 2017, 04:54:17 am
In general the apparent plot in the first half of the game has little to do with the actual plot in the second half. I'm going to guess that the final boss won't have anything to do with seasons directly, with the wild weather being some kind of side effect or cover up or something. I'm also going to guess that this jade scepter that the japanese name refers to is a bigger hint to who the final boss is, since there isn't anything in the demo that it's obviously referring to.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Alrysc on May 08, 2017, 05:11:16 am
Or some powerful Youkai is just bored.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 08, 2017, 05:25:13 am
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/230457423985508354/311010309404098560/unknown.png

this is so... cute.

i can't deal with this.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lebon14 on May 08, 2017, 05:54:43 am
In general the apparent plot in the first half of the game has little to do with the actual plot in the second half. I'm going to guess that the final boss won't have anything to do with seasons directly, with the wild weather being some kind of side effect or cover up or something. I'm also going to guess that this jade scepter that the japanese name refers to is a bigger hint to who the final boss is, since there isn't anything in the demo that it's obviously referring to.

Right.
I was just saying that, if any past characters made an appearance, what would have been the best bets. Knowing Zun, that will probably not happen.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on May 08, 2017, 07:04:11 am
It turns out that the amount of PiV you get from bullet cancels is also affected by how many options you had upon release.
...this means that consecutive summer releases will get better multipliers and hence overall more PiV than, say, consecutive fall releases.
As for whether this makes summer better than fall in scoring? It depends on difficulty, but Summer is the definitive sub to take for Easy scoring.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 08, 2017, 07:23:08 am
Youkais that has relation to weather or heavy dependence on weather that appeared in the past:
Letty Whiterock, Yuuka Kazami, Shizuha & Minoriko Aki and Iku Nagae.

I could see Letty being a midboss for a winter-based stage and the same for the Aki sisters for the Fall/Autumn themed stage. But I wouldn't bet on Yuuka and Iku appearing at all.
Just an aside, but Yuuka has no dependence on nor connections to the weather or the seasons what-so-ever.  It's just a persistent misconception since her title in PoFV is "Flower Master of the Four Seasons".
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: andykhang on May 08, 2017, 07:37:43 am
Hm...A fairy is getting more berserk, a Yamanba is getting more territorial, and a Komainu is getting more out-going and protective...It's as if along with the weather, their nature is getting more expressive. Also, maybe Tenshi could be in this game?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: xJeePx on May 08, 2017, 08:09:34 am
Sorry if this was already posted, but I wanted to share some observations of mine on Etanity's name and visual design.

Her music theme is called "A Midsummer Fairy's Dream" (真夏の妖精の夢). This is a parody and reference to the title of William Shakespeare's play "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Midsummer_Night%27s_Dream) (真夏の夜の夢).

Etanity's name seems to be an anagram of "Titania" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titania), one of the characters in the play who is a fairy queen.

エタニティ (E-ta-ni-ti)
ティタニア (Ti-ta-ni-a)

And last, but not least, here's something I noticed right away, when Etanity's image on the demo discs was revealed.
Her pose and overall design bears a striking resemblance to Kazuma Kaneko's design of Titania and her husband Oberon from Shin Megami Tensei. Knowing how ZUN was a huge fan of those series way back in the 90's and referenced Megaten a lot in his works, I wasn't surprised.
(http://i.imgur.com/Qj1EP1a.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on May 08, 2017, 08:32:46 am
intrdasting

We're probably going to end up sticking with Eternity at least for the time being, but I wonder if a patch or the full version will shed some more light on that.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on May 08, 2017, 09:00:41 am
Bravo, now that's a good assessment! "A Midsummer Night's Dream" was also referenced by 真夏の昼の夢 "A Midsummer Noon's Dream", Chapter 3 of VFiS.

Unfortunately as the anagram is katakana-based, we can't be sure about how エタニティ is spelt in romaji. I too favor "Etanity" a bit more, since it's more of an actual name, but that has nothing to do with ZUN's decision-making, who may well have decided either plain "eterny" or one letter off is good enough for him.

To derail a little: I found the game's in-development title 東方天星璋 infinitely better than 東方天空璋, but he has settled on the later, and that's the end.

(東方天星璋 can be seen in the game executable's title and an error message. While 天空璋 is tenkuu "sky" + shou "jade scepter; jade ladle", 天星璋 is ten "sky, heaven" + sei "star" + shou.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on May 08, 2017, 09:19:34 am
Anything noteworthy between Cirno and Negumo's conversation?  Since the latter adopts lost children, I expect her to have something to say about seeing a young fairy appearing before her.

Imagine the fan work potential between those two!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 08, 2017, 09:21:40 am
Sorry if this was already posted, but I wanted to share some observations of mine on Etanity's name and visual design.

Her music theme is called "A Midsummer Fairy's Dream" (真夏の妖精の夢). This is a parody and reference to the title of William Shakespeare's play "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Midsummer_Night%27s_Dream) (真夏の夜の夢).

Etanity's name seems to be an anagram of "Titania" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titania), one of the characters in the play who is a fairy queen.

エタニティ (E-ta-ni-ti)
ティタニア (Ti-ta-ni-a)

And last, but not least, here's something I noticed right away, when Etanity's image on the demo discs was revealed.
Her pose and overall design bears a striking resemblance to Kazuma Kaneko's design of Titania and her husband Oberon from Shin Megami Tensei. Knowing how ZUN was a huge fan of those series way back in the 90's and referenced Megaten a lot in his works, I wasn't surprised.
(http://i.imgur.com/Qj1EP1a.jpg)

Whoah, that is some pretty solid theorizing. Excellent, that settles it for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 08, 2017, 09:31:49 am
Wait, I don't see how Etaniti is an anagram of Titania, whether in romaji or katakana...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 08, 2017, 09:42:08 am
Wait, I don't see how Etaniti is an anagram of Titania, whether in romaji or katakana...

FTR: I'm going with this spelling (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1340800.html#msg1340800) because I like the reasoning put behind it; not necessarily because I think it's canonically true, and won't pretend it is.

Ultimately, I'm not sure it even entirely matters, but it's that kind of attention to detail that I like about this community.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 08, 2017, 09:47:23 am
It wasn't meant as a remark toward you but rather a personal interrogation about the general reasoning. Most of it is sound but I just don't see the anagram part, unless I'm mistaken on what an anagram is.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Karisa on May 08, 2017, 10:05:51 am
Etanity's name seems to be an anagram of "Titania" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titania), one of the characters in the play who is a fairy queen.

エタニティ (E-ta-ni-ti)
ティタニア (Ti-ta-ni-a)
Not quite? エ (e) and ア (a) don't match up.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: binbinbake on May 08, 2017, 11:53:06 am
Me reading the music description of the Stage 1 theme:
"...
With all said and done, it goes well with beer. "

Touhou in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 08, 2017, 12:58:09 pm
Yes. Though written with different kanji, the "koma" in both is the same word stem, meaning "Goryeo", Goryeo being the name of several historical kingdoms on or near the Korean peninsula, and the etymology of the English word "Korea". Places called "Koma-something" (like "Komano") are named after ancient immigrants from the Korean peninsula, while "komainu" is named as such because stone lions are an Indian thing that came to Japan that way.

Korean elements in Touhou? I must say ZUN has gotten pretty bold...

For those who don't get why I'm saying this, its because Japanese media tend to avoid portraying anything Korean for some reason (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoKoreansInJapan)...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 08, 2017, 01:21:58 pm
For those who don't get why I'm saying this, its because Japanese media tend to avoid portraying anything Korean for some reason (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoKoreansInJapan)...
You know, that very page you linked to already contains quite a few counterexamples to what you're saying.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Prime32 on May 08, 2017, 01:27:00 pm
Korean elements in Touhou? I must say ZUN has gotten pretty bold...

For those who don't get why I'm saying this, its because Japanese media tend to avoid portraying anything Korean for some reason (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoKoreansInJapan)...
Korean people. There's nothing bold about a shrine having guardian lion statues, any more than there is about having characters go to one of those barbecue restaurants with a grill built into the table.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: CyberAngel on May 08, 2017, 02:02:06 pm
My nicknames for the new characters so far: Tanya, Yaga-obasan and "PLEASE PET ME!"
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Announced
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 08, 2017, 02:08:27 pm
You know, that very page you linked to already contains quite a few counterexamples to what you're saying.

I know. The trope page explains the meaning of the trope, and because this trope is so common, the page itself requested all examples listed under it to be subversions and aversions.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tsalop on May 08, 2017, 02:47:50 pm
Hm...A fairy is getting more berserk, a Yamanba is getting more territorial, and a Komainu is getting more out-going and protective...It's as if along with the weather, their nature is getting more expressive. Also, maybe Tenshi could be in this game?

Hehe... What if Kokoro is behind all of this? After the events of 15.5 her emotions go out of control causing normally apathetic creatures to become more active. Kokoro is not the big bad however but the real mastermind is a person who uses this outbreak of emotions for her own gains.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lebon14 on May 08, 2017, 03:52:53 pm
Not quite? エ (e) and ア (a) don't match up.
Yup. So, it's not an anagram.
Eternity it is.

<derail>Here's an actual anagram. Take the item from "The Legend Of: A Link To The Past"'s "Cane Of Byrna" (the blue cane). Look at "Byrna":
Byrna
Bryan <- Anagram of the above! </derail>.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 08, 2017, 04:37:00 pm
Aya + Spring seems to be working best for me. Not really crazy about homing shots, but at 5 or 6 they seem to do well enough on stages. And I think I'm mastering the timing of unleashing Season. Absolutely great for the last few seconds of a card, or autocollecting when the screen is a mass of items. Time it right and it refills as a result of the autocollect.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Serela on May 08, 2017, 04:56:56 pm
Fall Aya is a lot of fun on high difficulties for the silly season chaining over and over, but I sure do bump into an enemy and kill myself like, constantly. Even somewhat durable fairies will mess you up, aaaa; high risk high reward indeed. I gave Spring a good go as Marisa... it's effective at what it does, but you can't use it a lot like Summer or Fall, so I don't favor it a whole lot. It's pretty satisfying when you can get a full screen clear with a lot of items and bullets onscreen though, and that can pump it back to 3+. You're liable to only get like half the power you spent on a really good use even at high difficulty though... I'm really spoiled with Summer and Fall.

Still gotta try Winter again and see how useful it is for boss murrrderrrrr. Low spammability can be a decent tradeoff if it deals enough heavy damage. oh wow jesus christ that did a lot of damage
edit:Yeah, Winter has potential if you can get used to setting lv2~3 winters on the boss without killing yourself. Farms a good bit of season on many attacks, does a hefty load of damage (lv6 winter is amazing), etc. The forward focus damage is a welcome bonus, too.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: The Anti-Person on May 08, 2017, 05:12:40 pm
The winter releasable/minibomb is broken against boss fights.

Broken stuff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yW08Rycdo4)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 08, 2017, 05:25:58 pm

Fall is great, definitely, though Winter feels like ... maybe too powerful? And Summer just feels like cheating on account of how often you can use it.

Overall I'd say Spring and Fall have been working best for me.

The winter releasable/minibomb is broken against boss fights.

Broken stuff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yW08Rycdo4)

Yep, as I suspected about Winter. Also, great demonstration of how to collect season items with graze despite how they spawn quite a ways away from you.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: shockdude on May 08, 2017, 05:31:39 pm
The winter releasable/minibomb is broken against boss fights.

Broken stuff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yW08Rycdo4)
Looking forward to Touhou 16 speedruns.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Colticide on May 08, 2017, 05:46:15 pm
Yup. So, it's not an anagram.
Eternity it is.

<derail>Here's an actual anagram. Take the item from "The Legend Of: A Link To The Past"'s "Cane Of Byrna" (the blue cane). Look at "Byrna":
Byrna
Bryan <- Anagram of the above! </derail>.

I'm OK with any version we end up with! Just tired of arguing with a certain person that her name is certainly not Etarnal  ::)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lobind on May 08, 2017, 07:04:38 pm
Well I've decided to get back into Touhou after a year-long hiatus and it seems like I picked the perfect time for it. I've been trying out the touhou 16 demo with all four of the characters on normal difficulty.

.The first thing I've noticed that it's quite a lot easier than touhou 15. Back when I played the LoLK demo I couldn't even 1cc it, whereas I have already no-missed the touhou 16 demo on normal with reimu and marisa, which is especially surprising considering the fact that I should be very rusty with bullet hells right now.

.The lower difficulty is by no means a bad thing though. I felt as though touhou 15 was outright unfair at points, and I was never really a fan of the pointdevice "quicksaving" gimmick. Touhou 16 in comparison feels a lot more relaxing to play so far, a feeling that is especially helped by the usual brilliant music, and nice visuals. In particular I love the purple appearance of stage 3.

.Speaking of the music, the stage 1 and stage 3 themes are in my opinion two of the best stage themes ZUN has made in a while. ZUN really nailed the feeling of the stage 1 theme. It feels exactly like how a stage 1 theme should, like the start of an adventure. It features a funky bass line as well, which is uncommon for a touhou theme.

.The menu music also gets me pumped.

.Lily White is back - without a portrait. I'll take what victories I can receive though.

.Playing as Cirno feels strange. I notice from my extremely limited knowledge of Japanese that she is saying "da ze~" now as well. Maybe she's been hanging around Marisa too much?

.Aya feels somewhat weak compared to the other three. I tried her with both autumn and spring. Her shot-type is narrow and she doesn't have the same advantages as Marisa. Perhaps it's just me?

.I love all three of the new character designs already. Especially Kumano Aunn. Her pose is just too pure. This is a pleasant surprise considering none of the touhou 15 characters ever really grew on me.

.Stage 1 has a summer theme, stage 2 has an autumn theme, and stage 3 has a spring theme, and seems to be set near the Hakurei shrine. I imagine that stage 4 in the full game will be a winter stage set in the forest of magic. This would especially make sense seeing that Marisa is the winter character here.

.Despite the great stage themes and visual designs, the stage designs themselves feel uninspired. It is mostly just waves of fairies and spirits, with patterns that feel too familiar. Not a dealbreaker considering everything else the demo has going for it, but I wish that ZUN would spend a bit more time on making the stages, and even add some new enemy types.

.Eternity (Etarnity?) Larva is a fun stage 1 boss with a fast, frantic nonspell. It feels like a short fight though, even for stage 1 boss standards.

.Sakata Nemuno has good spellcards but a really bland nonspell. It is the least-threatening knife pattern in the series, just basic streaming. Almost feels like an unfinished pattern. I enjoy the rhythmic feel to dodging her last spellcard with the knife clusters.

.Komano Aunn's boss fight is great. Dodging her second and third nonspell is probably the most challenging part of the demo and her last spellcard reminds me of Parsee. Also curvy lasers.

.I actually quite like the season flashbomb system. Reminds me of collecting spring pieces for cherry borders in PCB. Using a flashbomb during a boss spellcard should fail the spellcard though, seeing that they can be every bit as useful as a regular bomb.

.Speaking of bombs, that is one massive master spark, Marisa.

Overall I'm impressed. There are some problems and signs of rushed development but the positive aspects easily make up for this. So far, I think I prefer TH16 to both TH14 and TH15.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: DTM on May 08, 2017, 07:17:11 pm
Thcrap now has the music room & manual translated.
...but the controls section is missing the description for the Release Key (C Key). Hopefully that gets resolved soon.

That has been fixed and the patch and thcrap will automatically update whenever you run the game.
Also, English Dialogue is now in the patch!

Additionally, whenever there is a consensus on the name, it will be reflected in thcrap and the associated patch which will also automatically update whenever you run the patched game!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: shockdude on May 08, 2017, 07:55:00 pm
That has been fixed and the patch and thcrap will automatically update whenever you run the game.
Also, English Dialogue is now in the patch!

Additionally, whenever there is a consensus on the name, it will be reflected in thcrap and the associated patch which will also automatically update whenever you run the patched game!
Nice! Seems like the only major thing left is the shot type descriptions. Props to all the translators, artists, and developers.

One more thing: Cirno (With a Zan) should probably be Cirno (With a Tan), lol.
(https://abload.de/img/cirnozanmga50.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 08, 2017, 08:04:09 pm
Cirno with a zan. You know.

Don't you know what a zan is???
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Colticide on May 08, 2017, 08:35:31 pm
Duh! Zan! As in Zanzibar, as in lifting someone higher, as in elevating oneself to a higher existence . It's a Hip and cool way to say she is stronger. Everyone knows this!  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: DTM on May 08, 2017, 08:51:43 pm
Nice! Seems like the only major thing left is the shot type descriptions. Props to all the translators, artists, and developers.

One more thing: Cirno (With a Zan) should probably be Cirno (With a Tan), lol.

Duh! Zan! As in Zanzibar, as in lifting someone higher, as in elevating oneself to a higher existence . It's a Hip and cool way to say she is stronger. Everyone knows this!  :V

We're glad someone understands! :V
(Unfortunately, it is now Tan)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Colticide on May 08, 2017, 09:00:44 pm
We're glad someone understands! :V
(Unfortunately, it is now Tan)

Well short lived meme haha! Fast work!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: shockdude on May 08, 2017, 09:18:12 pm
Also, good job translating the little Japanese snippets that ZUN doodles around characters' heads.
(https://abload.de/img/ayaderpe6ay0e.png)
(https://abload.de/img/ayaderpjikxot.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Colticide on May 08, 2017, 09:27:50 pm
Its the small things in life that make it more fun lol, Never knew Derp could be a ... expression?  ???
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 08, 2017, 09:29:28 pm
I don't think I would have even noticed if someone didn't point it out.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Splashman on May 08, 2017, 10:35:32 pm
Image translations are now finished (except for the JP menu captions, but those can wait until someone can retrace the background).
With that, th16-trial is completely playable in English!
thanks to all the handsome people who helped!

One more thing: Cirno (With a Zan) should probably be Cirno (With a Tan), lol.
(https://abload.de/img/cirnozanmga50.png)

No, no, "ZAN" is the newest krispy creamy dank meme. It came to me when I was editing images half asleep one day.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Nyxnyx on May 09, 2017, 12:16:48 am
After playing, i really like larva and aunn's theme, with larva sounds somewhat spacey? And aunn's theme has the word "valor" pops into my head after the first 2 seconds.

Looking forward to the full game! Also i already like the new cast but nemuno seems to be a fired and forget character since she seeks to be alone even more than those so-called hermits. A shame.

I would certainly welcome aunn if she would be another hakurei shrine's freeloader.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 09, 2017, 12:35:24 am
Well, this is a thing that has already happened:

https://youtu.be/Wvxx0YVlqAw

700 million score within 2ish days. Crazy. Is Fall Aya going to be the go-to score choice?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Chill Observer on May 09, 2017, 12:40:21 am
Well, this is a thing that has already happened:

https://youtu.be/Wvxx0YVlqAw

700 million score within 2ish days. Crazy. Is Fall Aya going to be the go-to score choice?
You're a bit late on that. 1 billion has been reached. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMh0GHU5O2w)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Serela on May 09, 2017, 01:21:21 am
.Aya feels somewhat weak compared to the other three. I tried her with both autumn and spring. Her shot-type is narrow and she doesn't have the same advantages as Marisa. Perhaps it's just me?
She's got Marisa-grade range, but without the firepower, which is a bad starting point. Instead she's got a fast unfocus (It's not stated but... it definitely feels faster, doesn't it? Am I wrong?) and piercing shots in Focus mode; whether piercing matters is to be seen in later stages, but the fast unfocus makes her good at using Fall, which... is very Aya-like, to say the least. Fall is ridiculously powerful so that alone isn't half bad, and fast unfocus has it's advantages. Other than that, her bomb is PERFECT for scoring... which is relevant for all players as score=lives, and it looks like there's definitely going to be score extends that are not easy to reach, unlike how it usually is. Cirno's bomb isn't bad either, but Reimu and Marisa... well, Marisa's all about power as usual, at least. Aya's gonna be the big score shot this time around due to her bomb, even if Fall gets nerfed before full release.

I was excited when I read somewhere that Aya's shots angle with your movement and thought it'd be like PCB SakuyaB's "Power Direction" shot, which was a really nice shot. However, if it actually does that at all, the effect is almost unnoticeable.

edit:Okay, I think the angle shots is just for Aya's BOMB. Also, Cirno's bomb has basically the same duration... you kinda need to cast it in a corner to farm score with it though, so it's a slightly harder to use. Spread shot probably isn't ideal for scoring either, and if Aya does have faster unfocus, that'll propel Aya ahead again. She'll still be fairly good at it, though. And if nothing else, that's important for casual players getting lives~
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 09, 2017, 02:50:01 am
I was mentioning to someone on Discord, I love this game's balance.

Aya's a lot like MoF Reimu C. She sucks at the bottom of the screen, but she has insane shotgunning damage. And since you can stay right next to the boss for a good portion of the game thanks to the releases, it evens itself out.

Likewise, fall is probably the best release (though not so ridiculous that the others are blown out of the water) but it's also probably got the worst sub options. They're very weak in general, and the way they're positioned it's impossible to get all of them and your main shot to hit any individual enemy, which makes them even weaker.

That said, with spring release causing you to fail spell cards it's hands down the worst season.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Mero on May 09, 2017, 04:40:57 am
Likewise, fall is probably the best release (though not so ridiculous that the others are blown out of the water) but it's also probably got the worst sub options. They're very weak in general, and the way they're positioned it's impossible to get all of them and your main shot to hit any individual enemy, which makes them even weaker.

That said, with spring release causing you to fail spell cards it's hands down the worst season.
I do believe Fall has the best release by a significant margin. I mean, sure Winter's is stupid strong, but Fall chains itself like it's nothing and it lets you retreat safely to boot. That said, Winter has the best sub-options by far

And yes, Spring is worst season
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fluury on May 09, 2017, 05:02:41 am
Y'all forgetting that there are more than enough people that just play to win and not play for score.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Nova234 on May 09, 2017, 05:07:33 am
That would be true of most games in the series, but HSiFS is bringing back purely score-based extends. As such, a certain level of proficiency with the scoring system is important even if you're just playing for a 1cc.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ふねん1 on May 09, 2017, 06:45:13 am
Given LoLK changed from score-based extends back to life fragments, we shouldn't project too far ahead on how scoring might mesh with survival. For the demo at least, scoring isn't really that necessary just to get a 1cc imo since releases have survival utility on their own and are so dang plentiful anyway, and there's a decent amount of bombs to back you up if you run out of subs.

Anyway, I haven't gotten to play too much over the past couple days, but I'm finding this game fairly interesting so far. As others have mentioned, the shot types are the biggest highlight of this game, and independent of anything else regarding release mechanics, pattern difficulty, etc., the sheer amount of style combinations you can make is reason enough to try everybody out. Previously the only game I was ever motivated to try more than one or two shots for was SA, mainly because it's my favorite, but going through HSiFS with all 16 shots oughta be fun (I've only done Reimu so far lol). Also as others have mentioned, scoring is absolutely bonkers, so I won't go too much into that other than presenting my slimmest of hopes that ZUN will see what people are doing on day 3 and realizing something needs to change. But something that might be a bit overlooked is how the release mechanic might affect survival play in the full version. Three games in a row now (TD to LoLK), we've had games where people argue that even Lunatic difficulty becomes not just easy, but borderline trivial because the unique mechanics lead to extremely heavy resource abuse (sometimes dependent on character/shot as well, but then again, all it takes is one good shot for it to be a problem). And the sheer frequency of releases in HSiFS has the potential to surpass all of them by miles the way it is now. As someone who enjoys the challenge of Touhou's danmaku patterns themselves (and I recognize I may be a rare breed on this front lol), seeing other mechanics greatly overshadow this aspect of the games as routinely as they've been doing lately is a bit depressing. Though on the topic of the danmaku, Lunatic's patterns feel like they're pretty close to where they should be - not as mind-numbingly boring as TD, but not as insanely hard as LoLK. I stop short of predicting where the second half might take things - I learned my lesson from TD when the second half of that game turned out to mostly not be any harder than the first - but at least we can be sure the first half of HSiFS is all right this time.

But enough of my moping about the gameplay, on to the rest of the game! Some things in HSiFS still tended to be hit-or-miss with me, but I think that's fairly normal - it's rare for anyone to like absolutely everything in a work, after all. Eternity was already an early hit when she was revealed, and I liked her even more after seeing her dialogue. Her trying to out-ham Cirno just put a huge grin on my face lol. Nemuno... I honestly don't know what to think about her. Everything about her just seems so off-putting to me (that includes her danmaku, but I digress). Maybe that was the intent considering she's described as a "mountain hag", but I don't know how much that really adds to things. If it weren't for the fact that she's based on an established Japanese youkai and made friends with the player after defeat like everyone else, I'd swear she was Shrek reincarnated into Gensokyo, which makes her seem more out-of-place than I think she was meant to be. I suspect this mainly lies in cultural differences here, so I'm more willing to let that slide. I'll never get over her ugly outfit though. :V Aunn I've started to warm up a bit more to after seeing her dialogue. In a universe where practically everybody makes friends after a good-old-fashioned duel, Aunn somehow manages to be friendlier than everybody else, a feat unto itself, given her nature as a guardian to the Hakurei Shrine among other places. I definitely look forward to how future works will portray her and her connection to the shrine. As for music, it's probably no surprise I find the title and Stage 1 themes to be amazing. Both are catchy as hell and provide good atmosphere. However, neither Stage 2 theme is really doing it for me so far. There are parts of the Stage 2 theme I like, but others not so much. And Nemuno's theme started getting grating really fast despite the relatively low amount of times I've fought her. I haven't listened to Eternity or Aunn's themes enough to really judge them, though first impressions are sorta in the middle - good, but not great. I thought Stage 3's theme would be kinda meh at first too, but it's been growing a bit on me the past day, so it'll likely end up a good listen. The overall presentation of the game is also very good so far, with a couple exceptions. Stage 2 has a couple danmaku patterns I think end up seeming too bright against the colorful background, never mind some of the danmaku feeling too similar to LoLK Stage 2 and imo not meshing that well with the autumn theme. Stages 1 and 3 are much better though. Stage 1 is very fast-paced and brimming with energy like the intense summer heat, and I can't help but feel pumped up by it. Stage 3 is more relaxing, kinda like what you'd expect at an actual flower viewing, but the danmaku has some great color choices to go along with the background, and everything just looks so inviting. There were a couple teases for a possible winter stage coming up, but given Reimu's musings, we may end up with something we never expected, so that should be fun to look forward to.

EDIT: Oh and how could I forget? "Spring is heeeeere!" :V Thank you Lily White for coming back and brightening up our playthroughs.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Serela on May 09, 2017, 12:24:58 pm
Y'all forgetting that there are more than enough people that just play to win and not play for score.
As I was saying each time, you need score to get lives. In the previous games, just a very basic understanding of the system and attempt to regularly PoC was enough to get all the score extends (past easy or so, at least) but this time it looks like you'll need to ACTUALLY try to score to some degree if you want to get the later ones, since the score extends look to be extending rather far. Expending a little resources on the most milkable patterns in stage 2~3 at the least will probably be worth everyone's while in the full version so your PIV (point item value) is significantly higher for the rest of the game. If you're playing Aya or Cirno it's trivially easy since you just release, then use a bomb, run in a circle, throw a release or two after (depending on your season), so it's nothing tricky or fancy but it'll drastically raise your PIV in an otherwise casual run. Fall is also ridiculously good at racking up huge amounts of PIV, but I suspect it'll be nerfed by full version somehow.

Technically the LoLK demo and full vers swapped from score to life fragments, but I'm pretty sure that was just due to the awkward pointdevice/legacy shenanigans; the system already in place for giving bomb pieces was swapped to life pieces instead, probably because he figured Legacy needed the handicap. It could certainly still happen that we get life fragments again in the full version, buuuut it feels like scoring lives is actually intended this time. I mean, he even made a chunk of the UI for showing at what score you get the next life, so.

As far as the concern for releases making the later part of the game potentially too easy, I can definitely see that. Summer/Fall have immense potential and Winter does still hold possibility of dealing very heavy loads of boss damage by casting it before the cards start, etc. Spring's the only one that feels like it's "normal" in it's usability, making it the worst of the seasons because nothing about it seems OP :V ZUN has lots of time to tone the abusability down a bit though, so we'll see.

Likewise, fall is probably the best release (though not so ridiculous that the others are blown out of the water) but it's also probably got the worst sub options. They're very weak in general, and the way they're positioned it's impossible to get all of them and your main shot to hit any individual enemy, which makes them even weaker.
You say that, but Summer isn't any better XD Seems like the best releases have the worst options. Unless you're playing Cirno (or at least Reimu) I'm not sure the spread damage is worth anything on Summer options, and none of them go forward enough to overlap with your main shot even at max power. (Summer Cirno is also really weak vs. bosses, it feels like... unless you're shotgunning) At least fall will hit the boss when you're not directly on-center. You'll get an icicle or two offcenter with summer I guess, but the damage is probably too little to notice in such cases. So yeah, Winter definitely has the best options XD Spring's aren't bad, but the release doesn't have any really strong points like every other season does, so.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 09, 2017, 01:00:26 pm
Summer is admittedly pretty useless on Reimu, and Aya needs power more than she needs spread. It helps Marisa a bunch though, and it lets Cirno melt through stages. Plus its release is a decent option (though definitely not as good as fall).

In general I agree that winter are the best sub options, but that's mostly because 3/4 characters are lacking in power and that's the only one that gives a significant damage boost. If we ignore releases, Marisa's going to do alright with spring or summer too, though super-high-melt-through-everything damage with winter options is still a good choice for her.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Serela on May 09, 2017, 01:16:38 pm
I'd wager ZUN will nerf Fall by making the duration at low levels shorter; lv1 winter and spring barely do anything (lv1 winter is hard to put on a boss without dying) but lv1 fall lasts for an awfully long time, giving it way more power than it should have. It'd still probably be a solid choice, just not... you know, totally crazeballs. The real issue is just that lv1 and 2 do way too much work when the other seasons are nearly useless at those grades past being a small range bullet clear for saving your life.

If that's the only nerf he does then seasons will still be super strong, so, we'll just have to see.

Honestly I don't think about the options so much as the releases, but it depends what difficulty you're looking at I guess. On Lunatic you can abuse mass-releasing due to all the bullets (and as well, you'll probably want to do so; hence the release becomes more important than the options), but on normal you're probably enjoying your options more often than you're releasing them.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 09, 2017, 02:26:53 pm
And yes, Spring is worst season

I'm not getting this at all. Do you mean as a subweapon? If so, yes, it is definitely the weakest. But when activated? It can be hugely useful for autocollecting enough to fill the Season gauge right back up again, and is very powerful when fully charged. Fall's deal when activated is pretty useless to me.

So I guess it depends what you choose a Season for, really.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Mero on May 09, 2017, 04:04:29 pm
I'm not getting this at all. Do you mean as a subweapon? If so, yes, it is definitely the weakest. But when activated? It can be hugely useful for autocollecting enough to fill the Season gauge right back up again, and is very powerful when fully charged. Fall's deal when activated is pretty useless to me.

So I guess it depends what you choose a Season for, really.
It's what Serela said basically, it's the "worst" because everything else is better in some way: Summer has multiple releases and is good for a little burst damage at the start of spellcards, Winter has the best options and its release outright destroys bosses, and Fall is super good on Lunatic's bullet count on top of being decently strong. Spring is more like a PCB border to me, and it does have uses, but it's rather unimpressive (I actually don't care much about it failing spellcards, right now they're looking up to be pointless for score)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 09, 2017, 04:17:12 pm
It's what Serela said basically, it's the "worst" because everything else is better in some way: Summer has multiple releases and is good for a little burst damage at the start of spellcards, Winter has the best options and its release outright destroys bosses, and Fall is super good on Lunatic's bullet count on top of being decently strong. Spring is more like a PCB border to me, and it does have uses, but it's rather unimpressive (I actually don't care much about it failing spellcards, right now they're looking up to be pointless for score)

This I can agree with, definitely. Just been avoiding Winter because it seems brokenly overpowered at the moment.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 09, 2017, 04:18:26 pm
(I actually don't care much about it failing spellcards, right now they're looking up to be pointless for score)

I've actually been wondering about this. I'm sure cheesing Etrainity's spells for a higher piv is more important than capturing them, but at what point (if ever) is capturing a spell worth more than cheesing it? Since the later in the game you are the less point items there are left, I'd imagine it's have to stop being valuable at some point.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Mero on May 09, 2017, 04:55:00 pm
I've actually been wondering about this. I'm sure cheesing Etrainity's spells for a higher piv is more important than capturing them, but at what point (if ever) is capturing a spell worth more than cheesing it? Since the later in the game you are the less point items there are left, I'd imagine it's have to stop being valuable at some point.
If this keeps up, we'll probably get TD 2.0. The cancel items here look like IN's time orbs, in the sense they increase PIV but still are score items themselves. With PIV capping at stage 3 and bonuses being really low, it seems more valuable to just cancel bullets for 50k each on later stages. It's probably why timers are also really short this time around, enough to cut the time-out ticks to 5 seconds left instead of 10
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Valar on May 09, 2017, 05:34:36 pm
I was just struck with realisation: sub-seasons enable you to use parts of shots of other characters. Meaning that other characters lend you a part of their power. You could say that you are posessed by parts of their power... Antinomy of Common Flowers incident anyone?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Serela on May 09, 2017, 05:44:02 pm
Spellcard bonuses are mostly ever only important on Extra mode anyway, iirc. However, since most season uses don't actually stop you from capping cards right now, it's feasible to grab both.

In terms of PIV capping at stage 3, I think Fall's probably gonna get nerfed, and it's the only reason you can get that much -that- fast. It doesn't take much skill to just spam fall almost -constantly- in Lunatic and avoid any actual dodging, you just have to make sure not to ram into enemies. If it remains as-is though then el o el, but I bet ZUN'll kick down the duration at low release levels.

Spring's not exactly -bad-, it's just that the other seasons are all really abusable looking. A high level release of Spring is impressive, but even on really good casts it's not exactly "sustainable" to the immense degree summer and fall are, and winter does boatloads of damage in exchange for less spammability (and even it's spam potential isn't necessarily too bad since it sticks around awhile)

Hmm, one thing I didn't consider with Spring though, is it'll make you invulnerable for a bit. The pop only lasts a moment in terms of clearing bullets out, so you might be able to grazespam for a little bit and get more season items.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on May 09, 2017, 05:51:01 pm
Spellcard bonuses are mostly ever only important on Extra mode anyway, iirc. However, since most season uses don't actually stop you from capping cards right now, it's feasible to grab both.
Feasible yes, but with a good pattern bombing for graze when you run out of gauge, and then continuing to spam Release, is still better.

The cancel items here look like IN's time orbs, in the sense they increase PIV but still are score items themselves.
Yep. Really a lot of the brokenness of this system could likely be fixed by not giving the green point items their insane value, and/or by nerfing the amount of Season you get from canceled bullets. Bombing to graze for Season is not particularly broken by itself.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fluury on May 09, 2017, 06:27:19 pm
As I was saying each time, you need score to get lives. In the previous games, just a very basic understanding of the system and attempt to regularly PoC was enough to get all the score extends (past easy or so, at least) but this time it looks like you'll need to ACTUALLY try to score to some degree if you want to get the later ones, since the score extends look to be extending rather far. Expending a little resources on the most milkable patterns in stage 2~3 at the least will probably be worth everyone's while in the full version so your PIV (point item value) is significantly higher for the rest of the game. If you're playing Aya or Cirno it's trivially easy since you just release, then use a bomb, run in a circle, throw a release or two after (depending on your season), so it's nothing tricky or fancy but it'll drastically raise your PIV in an otherwise casual run. Fall is also ridiculously good at racking up huge amounts of PIV, but I suspect it'll be nerfed by full version somehow.

Technically the LoLK demo and full vers swapped from score to life fragments, but I'm pretty sure that was just due to the awkward pointdevice/legacy shenanigans; the system already in place for giving bomb pieces was swapped to life pieces instead, probably because he figured Legacy needed the handicap. It could certainly still happen that we get life fragments again in the full version, buuuut it feels like scoring lives is actually intended this time. I mean, he even made a chunk of the UI for showing at what score you get the next life, so.

As far as the concern for releases making the later part of the game potentially too easy, I can definitely see that. Summer/Fall have immense potential and Winter does still hold possibility of dealing very heavy loads of boss damage by casting it before the cards start, etc. Spring's the only one that feels like it's "normal" in it's usability, making it the worst of the seasons because nothing about it seems OP :V ZUN has lots of time to tone the abusability down a bit though, so we'll see.

You need score to get lives, yeah.

Not only does Spring generate a lil' bit of score from deleted bullets but it generally does a better job at defending yourself than the others; Will I lose out on a bit of score? Yes. Will I survive and keep my remaining bombs instead of letting them fly into the netherland? Yes.

It's the weakest by far, but not by a large margin if you ask me.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: shockdude on May 09, 2017, 06:34:09 pm
Imo Spring is the best season for new players as it's the only one where you can't die after using it, and the AoE is big enough to collect plenty of PiV at any given point for extends.
The other seasons are obviously better for score or survival (at a certain skill threshold), but Spring is good for what it is.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on May 09, 2017, 07:28:20 pm
Everyone's dissing spring but I quite like it.  Considering not for the release but for the options themselves. 

Considering the game has right now a -ton- of streaming patterns and some spellcards last as little as 20 seconds (another thing I'd like to discuss, everything feels so shorter duration-wise compared to the other games!) , those homing shots can help quite a lot.

I've found spring to work best with Aya, since her shot deals a ton of damage but has a very narrow size.  Helped me not-timeout all of Nemuno's nonspells.

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: GenericArrangements on May 09, 2017, 07:31:29 pm
Spring Marisa is good. Nice focus power, speed and homing.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Karisa on May 09, 2017, 08:05:52 pm
Spellcard bonuses are mostly ever only important on Extra mode anyway, iirc.
They're relevant in the main game about half the time, I'd say. Specifically, spells are mostly captured in PCB, IN, MoF, UFO, and DDC, and mostly stalled/bombed in EoSD, PCB, SA, GFW, TD, and LoLK. (PCB is an unusual case where they tend to be relevant only if stalled for graze. IN is a mixture of that and regular captures depending on difficulty.)

The initial spell bonuses tend to reflect whether they're intended to be captured or not-- for example, SA, TD, and LoLK all use a standard formula of (stage+difficulty)*1 million, which maxes at 9m Lunatic stage 6, 11m Extra. Meanwhile UFO bonuses are double that, and DDC's bonuses are about 2.5x as high.

As for the spell bonuses in HSiFS? At stage*(difficulty+1)*500,000, they're the lowest in the main series since EoSD.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ふねん1 on May 09, 2017, 09:35:01 pm
As an attacking option I actually think Summer is worse than Spring. Both are indeed very weak, but Spring at least hits things more reliably because of its homing nature, most notably bosses. Though given Winter's sheer power, this is one of those "better than nothing" scenarios, which is basically what Summer is as a sub-shot. :V

Also I'm pretty sure Aya's main shot isn't that strong unless you're shotgunning unfocused. Probably why she has piercing and not Marisa.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 09, 2017, 10:22:22 pm
Spring has the standard homing issue- it's veeeeery easy for the shots to target the wrong enemy, and that enemy flies off screen and the shots don't target the enemy you were going after until it's too late. This is an advantage spread shots have over homing in general, not just in this game.

Though that's only part of the issue. Having a slow homing shot combined with the extremely short release is what makes it the worst season imo. Though now that I know spell card bonuses don't really matter in this game, I might have to give it another try.

Unrelated to that, listening to the soundtrack outside of gameplay has given me a much greater appreciation for it. All the songs feel like ZUN's music CD style. I really enjoy the first and third boss themes.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 09, 2017, 11:51:01 pm
Yes, homing is often frustrating, being useful only in some portions of a stage. I do like using the option on Spring when it's charged enough or close enough to the boss, but yeah. I still prefer forward focus.

I'll miss these bombs that last forever though.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fluury on May 10, 2017, 07:29:12 am
So what is the general vibe surrounding 16 so far?

From what I have seen the most complaints come from the high level players, with the broken scoring system, *somewhat* extremely abusable releases and certain safespots, people going so far and telling ZUN to throw the towel, geez.
The more casual side seems to enjoy it as always, with this thread being in the rather mixed to positive side.

It isn't uncommon for ZUN to make larger changes to earlier stages in full releases, right? Or is it unrealistic to be expecting those issues that high level players have, such as the broken scoring system, to be fixed?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on May 10, 2017, 08:32:01 am
So what is the general vibe surrounding 16 so far?

From what I have seen the most complaints come from the high level players, with the broken scoring system, *somewhat* extremely abusable releases and certain safespots, people going so far and telling ZUN to throw the towel, geez.
The more casual side seems to enjoy it as always, with this thread being in the rather mixed to positive side.

It isn't uncommon for ZUN to make larger changes to earlier stages in full releases, right? Or is it unrealistic to be expecting those issues that high level players have, such as the broken scoring system, to be fixed?
I can safely say for myself that I'm thoroughly enjoying this game so far, mostly because of the shottype customization that enables a wide array of various strategies that can be played with. While I agree with that the release mechanic is out of normal compared with most other official Touhou games, I think the main issue lies within the damage output of the flashbombs (of all seasons) rather than the flashbombs themselves. That would the only major criticism I have so far, because more skilled players could just detonate them right at the boss and utterly trivialize all the attacks, so tweaking the flashbombs' strength should do it. Other than that, fixing the safespots in Eternity's patterns would be nice, and alter stage 2's pattern designs a bit, which do look quite similar to that of LoLK's stage 2 but still have their own vibe combined with the background scenery and stage theme.

With that said, I have a positive outlook to the full release and am still meddling around with different shot combinations and scoring strategies. 1 billion, heck, even 100 million ain't a piece of cake with the releases, so I'm somewhat puzzled by all that backlash against this mechanic. I mean, it has issues as mentioned above, but honestly I see a lot of potential with this scoring system. Considering that the amount of PIV obtained by the releases depends on the level of the gauge and not just maximum PIV gain at, say, a level 1 or 2 release already, and that the amount of season items dropped depends on how quickly you kill the stage enemies, it's actually a pretty well worked out system already.

On a side note, there are also some huge-ass arguments going on on Jaimers' demo playthrough about exactly that. There are sure some quite stubborn folks out there.
Title: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 10, 2017, 09:11:56 am
On a side note, there are also some huge-ass arguments going on on Jaimers' demo playthrough about exactly that. There are sure some quite stubborn folks out there.

As someone who play video games as an enjoyment, I am quite ashamed to find that there are morons who play games not to enjoy but to look cool.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: GenericArrangements on May 10, 2017, 09:21:17 am
Honestly unless you're going for score Touhou 16 is perfectly enjoyable. I especially like the sub-weapons shot-type system, because it leads to more variety for each playthrough. Talking about problems though, it may just be me, but I'm having difficulties noticing some bullets because of the lack of contrast between the bullets and the background (particularly in Stage 2). Just a small tweak would help enough.

As someone who play video games as an enjoyment, I am quite ashamed to find that there are morons who play games not to enjoy but to look cool.
100%. Video games were originally intended to be for fun. Even if you play Lunatic Mode, if you aren't having fun there's a problem.

EDIT: Speaking of Lunatic Mode, Stage 1 feels a lot messier than other Lunatic Modes. Particularly the part with the green yin yangs.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lobind on May 10, 2017, 10:17:01 am
As someone who play video games as an enjoyment, I am quite ashamed to find that there are morons who play games not to enjoy but to look cool.

Let's be honest though, this is by no means unique to the touhou series.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Chill Observer on May 10, 2017, 10:25:16 am
As someone who play video games as an enjoyment, I am quite ashamed to find that there are morons who play games not to enjoy but to look cool.
Can you provide us some examples?

People can have fun going after goals, it's not like "looking cool" is the only thing on players' minds. I sure as hell don't do that, I only play whatever I enjoy.

As a side note, I've tried learning demo scoring, Eternity Larva ramming into me when I do releases has got to be the most annoying thing ever, I swear.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Aeteas on May 10, 2017, 11:15:35 am
Some people say Spring is useless, but it's actually pretty good at canceling stage portions. On Stage 3 Lunatic, there's a couple spots where a 6 option release can get back 4 or 5 options. What's even better is the post-midboss section, the part with four big fairies shooting bullet lines. It's possible to go in with 6 options and wait for the bullets to build up on screen. I managed to get a cancel so huge that the amount of PIV and season items appearing on screen crashed the game. Oops.

Spring is secretly the most broken season.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 10, 2017, 12:19:34 pm
A lot of people elsewhere seem to assume that the final game will be this spammy. I think it's worth keeping in mind that the Reitaisai trial version was rushed. The season system will likely be tweaked before release.

The web trial version (which will be released shortly before Comiket) should give us a better idea of what the final game will actually be like.

 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lebon14 on May 10, 2017, 12:46:45 pm
So, I was thinking about this... I was thinking about this incident and what happened in VFiS Chapter 6. It's a stretch but it could be loosely connected.

Spoilers:
It's flower-viewing time! However, the fairies notice that the cherry-blossoms haven't bloomed AT ALL (Also, Sunny was totally oblivious to the issue until her comrades point it out to her). So, the 3 mischivious fairies (+ Clownpiece) decide to do something about it. So, Star suggests the other fairies to enact the "Flower Blooming Old-Man". By the end of the story, Marisa joins in too. At the end, All the cherry trees around the Hakurei are blooming splendidly.

Other comments:
The fairies actually argue that Clownpiece might be actually be the reason why nothing bloomed or that the fairies are getting weaker. And, to be honest, we are talking about "fairies theories" here. So, it might just be the incident slowly starting up. Or maybe forcing the bloom kickstarted it?

Regardless, we'll only know for sure this summer. My mind's always making such scenarios. I can't help it. :-P

P.S Go read that specific chapter of VFiS. It's so cute. <3
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HotoCocoa on May 10, 2017, 01:25:47 pm
The scoring system is pretty cool, nothing cooler than spinning around cute 2hus at high speeds.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Serela on May 10, 2017, 02:13:15 pm
It isn't uncommon for ZUN to make larger changes to earlier stages in full releases, right? Or is it unrealistic to be expecting those issues that high level players have, such as the broken scoring system, to be fixed?
Stuff that feels outright abusable is often tweaked. SanaeB's bomb in UFO and MarisaB's bomb in DDC were both things people were like "uhhhh holy crap" and they were toned down. Of course, MarisaB was still abusable, but the tweak did help a lot (it used to convert bullets into items in spellcards, too)

So we can expect Season to be tweaked. But like MariB in DDC, I expect it to still end up really powerful. Just, not quite as bad? At the least I expect a fall nerf, because that's bonkers. Probably just cut down the duration on early level releases. If that happens, the rest of the seasons... they're strong but it's probably a more intended level of strong.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 10, 2017, 04:23:55 pm
From what I have seen the most complaints come from the high level players, with the broken scoring system, *somewhat* extremely abusable releases and certain safespots, people going so far and telling ZUN to throw the towel, geez.
The more casual side seems to enjoy it as always, with this thread being in the rather mixed to positive side.
I disagree about the scoring thing. Maybe I'm just not a "high level player", but this game is one of, like, 3 where I'm actually enjoying trying to get a high score.

 My biggest complaint is that some of the patterns feel a bit generic, most specifically ones on the stage 2 boss. Other than that this game is extremely enjoyable, though it does feel a bit rushed in places.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ふねん1 on May 10, 2017, 05:06:03 pm
As much as I would like to believe that releases will get toned down to more reasonable levels, I have a past experience that stops me from being completely sold on that. Back when it first came out, I dabbled with scoring in the TD demo, and I noticed how much of the game, especially the bosses, ended up being bomb+Trance spam, severely reducing the amount of dodging needed when playing through the game (sound familiar?). Given how the system worked, I had a strong sense that the rest of the game would end up the same way, with perhaps the only things that could prevent that being the way the life fragment counter scaled limiting the lives you could use for said spam (it was 10, 15, 20, etc. instead of 8, 10, 12, 15, etc.) or bosses being tweaked to cough up fewer/no spirits when damaged. Neither of those things happened in the full release, and in fact lives were made easier to get as previously described, and the full game turned out to be entirely bomb+Trance spam, even with the weaker shots. While releases in HSiFS are seemingly a more prominent issue than Trances, there's still a chance not much will be changed. Predicting the future is a tricky thing lol. I'm pretty much entirely in "wait and see" mode at this point.

And just putting this out there, high-level players are totally capable of enjoying the non-gameplay aspects of Touhou as well, even if you don't see them talking about it to the same degree that, say, I did earlier.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: CyberAngel on May 11, 2017, 12:06:10 am
I find that the music grows a bit on me after some time, even though I did feel it was a bit generic at first. So I suggest anyone doubting it give it some time.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: mauve on May 11, 2017, 12:48:55 am
people play and get involved in games for lots of different reasons, it's entirely justifiable if they feel that a game doesn't live up to their particular tastes or interests or if they're interested in portions of it less related to that nebulous thing known as 'gameplay'

as long as people aren't getting mad at others for enjoying things that they don't, it's all good
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Plubio on May 11, 2017, 10:22:53 am
as long as people aren't getting mad at others for enjoying things that they don't, it's all good

Problem is this happens all the time.
Touhou is getting some "Fire Emblem" vibes and it's kinda annoying somehow. Western fanbase above all.

Long time ago I decided to ignore this part of the fandom but sometimes I just think that calling a new game "a fangame-like" is pretty disrespectful towards ZUN, especially when you didn't buy the demo (and obviously you don't have any plan on buying the full game). I've been in this Touhou thing quite a while (since SA demo) and I know hating new things is like a rule these days but I somewhat feel this was too much; it was the first time I read something this harsh lol.

I'm not judging anyone here, just saying what I've seen in different websites.

If someone doesn't like the game that's cool, we all have different opinions. I can understand some people not liking it and it's obvious it'd happen, that's just a common thing. You can't make everyone happy. But there are people that doesn't let you like things no matter what.

And y'know sometimes I just wanna have a nice chat with fellow Touhou players without someone saying "holy shit everything post SA it's fucking garbage ZUN died long ago" lol. Sorry if this was kinda "dramatic" but it has happen.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 11, 2017, 10:34:13 am
imo it's nothing worth worrying over, people will be people and sometimes they're very entitled about their opinion. It's a bit like when people say things like "Why is X character more popular than Y character, Y should be more popular than X because [reasons] and if you prefer X over Y you should feel bad"
At the end of the day it's a vocal minority that thinks them disliking the game means the game is objectively bad - while the rest either dislike the game in silence (or state their taste in a civil manner), or like the game and are busy playing it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Chill Observer on May 11, 2017, 10:55:21 am
I also don't understand the term "fangame-like". Is this supposed to be a good or bad thing? Because I have played several quality fangames and enjoyed them thoroughly, if it's supposed to be a good thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lobind on May 11, 2017, 11:04:32 am
I also don't understand the term "fangame-like". Is this supposed to be a good or bad thing? Because I have played several quality fangames and enjoyed them thoroughly, if it's supposed to be a good thing.

It seems to be a bit of a double standard for some people.
FIrst they say that the fangames are better than ZUN's official games
And then they complain that ZUN's new official game feels "too much like a fangame".

I know not everyone who prefers fangames mimicks this behaviour but I have observed it in youtube comments and so on.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2017, 12:17:44 pm
And y'know sometimes I just wanna have a nice chat with fellow Touhou players without someone saying "holy shit everything post SA it's fucking garbage ZUN died long ago" lol. Sorry if this was kinda "dramatic" but it has happen.

In fairness, though, these people are a small minority. Non-fans such as this (and I say "non-fan" because people who are still hanging out in the fandom for the sole purpose of bitching about how much ZUN has failed since Game X are not actually fans) can and should be safely ignored.

There's plenty of people here who are willing to talk about Touhou in a friendly, casual way. Non-fans are annoying, but few.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Plubio on May 11, 2017, 12:59:46 pm
In fairness, though, these people are a small minority. Non-fans such as this (and I say "non-fan" because people who are still hanging out in the fandom for the sole purpose of bitching about how much ZUN has failed since Game X are not actually fans) can and should be safely ignored.

Worry not. I've met a lot of Touhou fans who I can speak to about new stuff and so on. And I've never feel restrained to post on these forums too. I know they're a minority but usually they make the biggest noise.

Anyway, thank you for your words tho :)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Nyxnyx on May 11, 2017, 02:05:00 pm
I find that the music grows a bit on me after some time, even though I did feel it was a bit generic at first. So I suggest anyone doubting it give it some time.

I second this, especially Larva's theme and Aunn's theme. They're already on their way to some of the top of my favorite touhou themes!

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fluury on May 11, 2017, 03:56:46 pm
Don't let specific surroundings fool you, I am positive the main vibe around the game is flawed, but still good.

Now we wait for the full version.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Colticide on May 11, 2017, 04:54:00 pm
I second this, especially Larva's theme and Aunn's theme. They're already on their way to some of the top of my favorite touhou themes!

I also agree with those! Eternity's and Aunn's are amazing! I even like the title theme too! Which is kinda odd for me since it takes me a bit to get use to some music. (especially from DDC, I love those tracks now but it was so different it took me back)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: mauve on May 11, 2017, 07:49:07 pm
i mean, i definitely had my 'i hate swr/soku and why does anyone like this trash please stop so i can keep having more of The Good Stuff that i actually like' era which was kind of a dumb opinion to have even in the best of circumstances

i'm over it, we all grow up sometime. it's not worth the anger, people like what they like, celebrate what you do and hope to see more of it in the world

there's definitely a bit of "in my day, games were better because i was younger and less jaded about the world" out there though
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 11, 2017, 07:57:51 pm
Been playing a bunch.

It's chaotic. Between collecting power and point and Season makes it a little hard to collect all three at once.
Either the stage 1 small fairies have more health than usual or the shots are weaker this time around.
An auto-release patch would be cool. I can't count how many times I've run into the boss thinking that releases give me invincibility.
AyaAutumn is definitely OP. ReimuSpring is pretty bad for score. Marisa doesn't pierce (again. y zun).

Music's nice. Title screen theme is intense. I like Stage 3 boss theme
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Serela on May 11, 2017, 08:08:12 pm
An auto-release patch would be cool. I can't count how many times I've run into the boss thinking that releases give me invincibility.
AyaAutumn is definitely OP. ReimuSpring is pretty bad for score. Marisa doesn't pierce (again. y zun).
How would autorelease fix that though? :V Aya pierces instead of Marisa this time around, although it still feels a little strange.

It's worth nothing you can't deathrelease, either. You can only deathbomb.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on May 12, 2017, 02:43:42 am
I've been thinking, and it's a bit strange how the three bosses/stages are so well related to their respective season's characters.

Eternity is a Fairy and so is Cirno
Nemuno's had a territorial treaty with the Tengu of the youkai mountain
And Aunn is all about shinto/buddhist temples.

It feels a bit too specific, almost SWR-like in a way that each character's homes are reflecting on a single season (whist SWR had characters reflecting a weather)

As many assumed, I'm pretty sure stage 4's oughtta happen in a wintery forest of magic.  I wonder if the boss will have anything to do with Marisa or the forest itself.  Maybe another magician, or maybe a plant youkai of sorts?

It'd be neat to see something like a Jubokko! 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Alrysc on May 12, 2017, 03:19:59 am
I'd say it's likely the Stage 4 boss will have to do with a forest, since the first three bosses have to do with their setting. I don't recall anything about anything besides Marisa, Alice, and some mushrooms living in the Forest of Magic, though. Any mushroom Youkai? Then again, there was never anything said about a Komainu at the shrine.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on May 12, 2017, 03:52:00 am
This isn't a coincidence, the reason they're going to the different locations is because that's where the seasons are changing, and each player associates with the season because they live in places that were affected. Which is why they're investigating. Marisa outright says that the next location would be Winter, so Forest of Magic it should be.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Onion on May 12, 2017, 05:31:29 am
Tried the demo out:
Best. Touhou. Ever!
This is a good Touhou game, and totally what I was hoping for! It's beautiful! It's basic! It's ZUNish!

My only possible complaints would be regarding releases: I keep mixing up buttons, now that I have 4 to keep track of, and I keep mixing up danmaku and seasonable collectables, since they're not square. Square things are not collectable. Also, releases do NOT make you invincible against enemies, so I keep dying by headbutt with Aya+fall at the speed of sound. Practice will probably make it better.

The spell cards seem either pretty, but not really for dodging, or Junko basic and will kill you on sight.
Eternity Larva's last normal pattern remind me of Rumia's Demarcation.
Sakata Nemuno's nonspells feel original. I might just have not met a boss she's taken after, though.
Her first spell seems rather Color Typhoon esque. The second gives me LoLK nightmare flashbacks. Her third reminds me of Sakuya's nonspell from EoSD, but is actually easy to dodge.
Stage 3 reminds me of SA stage 5 so much. It's almost uncanny. Lily White reminds me of Meiling.
Speaking of which, Komano Aunn's patters are familiar. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Overall, the game feels familiar, but is still new and refreshing. I love it!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: PK on May 12, 2017, 11:05:14 am
I read a theory saying fairies are getting empowered because the seasons/nature give them overflowing power. Which would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that Aunn also feels much more powerful than usual, so i think the power boosts are affecting youkai (gods? Whatevs Aunn is supposed to be) as well. Just not all of them, since apparently Nemuno and Aya didn't feel anything.
Or maybe Aunn's ability to detect gods actually makes her stronger depending on the "divinity level" of the surroundings, so there might be a crazy strong god in the later game that is making Auuunn's divinity-o-meter going out of scale which is obviously the Dragon God, who can control nature and seasons.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fluury on May 12, 2017, 05:48:24 pm
Also to anyone speculating Stage 4 will be the magic forest.

(http://puu.sh/vNSTT/19ef0121cc.png)

yes.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on May 12, 2017, 05:59:37 pm
That much was already in the Prologue :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 12, 2017, 06:05:14 pm
Also, releases do NOT make you invincible against enemies

Spring does
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 12, 2017, 06:15:19 pm
Speaking of which, Komano Aunn's patters are familiar. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Her final spell is very Parsee-ish (more SA vibes), and her curvy laser spell could be really any curvy laser spell (Merlin, Shou, Junko.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ふねん1 on May 12, 2017, 07:31:16 pm
Aunn's final is like the opposite of Parsee's doppelgänger spell since you have to shoot the clone down first rather than ignore it. Also I guess her nons could be similar to Orin's in that they focus on lanes, but Aunn's overlap in different ways, which sets hers apart in that sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 12, 2017, 08:34:37 pm
I'd say it's likely the Stage 4 boss will have to do with a forest, since the first three bosses have to do with their setting. I don't recall anything about anything besides Marisa, Alice, and some mushrooms living in the Forest of Magic, though. Any mushroom Youkai? Then again, there was never anything said about a Komainu at the shrine.

Canon version of Kinoko Masha confirmed?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Onion on May 13, 2017, 12:11:54 am
Canon version of Kinoko Masha confirmed?

If a suspiciously similar youkai appears, I am going to have a seizure.
I don't hate Masha, and I don't hate the idea of ZUN borrowing from the fandom (a small part of me wishes he did). I don't hate anything. It would just be really shocking. KimikoMuffin would get more mail. Fanart would flip. The Yama's space heater would break.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 13, 2017, 02:56:13 am
The Yama's space heater would break.

Honestly, I don't think that would break it at all.

Rin Satsuki appearing in this game for whatever reason, however, would destroy the heater, the room, the building, and the area that it's in, forcing the Yama and co. to stay at Yuyuko's for a bit while Yukari complains to Reimu about the whole blasted thing...

I'm aware that the chance of Rin Satsuki appearing is virtually nil, but I can dream, can't I? *shrugs*
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2017, 04:26:33 pm
Has ZUN ever at any time "borrowed from the fandom", or do i see this hope with every new game because wishful thinking?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Alrysc on May 13, 2017, 04:33:25 pm
I believe I read that he used the name Daiyousei, the name given to the Stage 2 midboss of EoSD by the fans.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2017, 08:08:48 pm
I believe I read that he used the name Daiyousei, the name given to the Stage 2 midboss of EoSD by the fans.

The wiki on Daiyousei casts some doubt on this idea, but it's still probably the closest to ZUN borrowing from fandom that there is.

I just see people speculating on "will ZUN adopt this fanmade character and use it in a game?" as if it were an actual possibility and it always puzzles me a little, like, is this for real or kind of half-humorous "what if?" stuff? Because I honestly can't tell sometimes. Like when people get angry that 2hu [X] absolutely DESERVED to be in this game and was robbed again or something. I can never fully believe people are serious about it, but they sound serious enough.

But hey, Touhou brings out some strong responses in people, and it's all part of the fun.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fluury on May 13, 2017, 08:57:45 pm
Here's a theory for ya:

Characters under possession in 15.5 have a purple aura around them.

(http://puu.sh/vP227/84d7a974ba.png)

Lily white also has one in 16. Coincidence? Probably.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 13, 2017, 11:10:38 pm
what if it's the big bad or an associate of the big bad using perfect possession to indirectly attack the player
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 13, 2017, 11:25:09 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/bB7eKFO.png)

After the Forest of Magic, player will meet the stage boss, Alice. From there it's on up Mount Youkai to tangle with a new tengu. Final boss is Lord Tenma, behind Kanako's Shrine. It was Kanako's idea all along. Extra Boss is Eternity, only as a caterpillar this time. You fight here in gas station parking lot outside of Elizabeth, New Jersey. You heard it here first.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: GenericArrangements on May 13, 2017, 11:47:37 pm
It was Kanako's idea all along.
FRICK.

Extra Boss is Eternity, only as a caterpillar this time. You fight here in gas station parking lot outside of Elizabeth, New Jersey. You heard it here first.
I love this idea and I hope it will be canon.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 13, 2017, 11:50:14 pm
I believe I read that he used the name Daiyousei, the name given to the Stage 2 midboss of EoSD by the fans.

Wasn't Koakuma also a name that was given by the fandom and that ZUN was seen/heard using? I seem to remember something like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: CyberAngel on May 13, 2017, 11:54:42 pm
ZUN called Big Fairy a big fairy and Little Devil a little devil. Shocking!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 13, 2017, 11:58:00 pm
ZUN called Big Fairy a big fairy and Little Devil a little devil. Shocking!
Sarcasm aside, that might be so, but they are both the names given to them/commonly used by the fanbase and that he could easily not use. "Unnamed fairy" "Stage 2 midboss" "Unnamed demon"...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: GenericArrangements on May 14, 2017, 12:08:32 am
I remember hearing something about ZUN using those names mainly as identifiers. It's not like they're prominent characters, so I don't think he would have many reasons to talk about them anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on May 14, 2017, 12:17:45 am
Wasn't Koakuma also a name that was given by the fandom and that ZUN was seen/heard using? I seem to remember something like that.
Neither. Both Daiyousei and Koakuma were from ZUN in a post on his personal message board.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 14, 2017, 12:20:36 am
Neither. Both Daiyousei and Koakuma were from ZUN in a post on his personal message board.
I stand corrected!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Ripaah on May 14, 2017, 01:08:11 am
Also to anyone speculating Stage 4 will be the magic forest.

(http://puu.sh/vNSTT/19ef0121cc.png)

yes.

Alice confirmed for Stage 4 boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on May 14, 2017, 02:44:13 am
Characters under possession in 15.5 have a purple aura around them.

(http://puu.sh/vP227/84d7a974ba.png)

Lily white also has one in 16. Coincidence? Probably.
Ever since 12.5 he decided every character should have their own color aura, so :U


Even times when people claim ZUN does things because of the fandom it falls a little flat. The fact that Cirno got a game as 12.8 was one of them, but really that was more like the amalgamation of her ending up in PoFV, ZUN's direction on the role of fairies in Gensokyo, then being included in Sangetsusei and eventually the declaration of war idea, which is probably when he started thinking about it as a game idea (the game coming out about a year and a half after the relevant manga parts). Or perhaps he wrote it the special chapter because of the idea. Point being that ZUN liking a character and the fandom liking the character can be parallel while still not being all that related.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Onion on May 14, 2017, 03:26:39 am
Alice confirmed for Stage 4 boss.

Incoming remix of Plastic Mind.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 14, 2017, 03:29:05 am
is it plausible that, if it isn't alice due tew either not being present or wanting no part of it, that the player characters fight each other? after all, all four of them are going towards the same area, so they're bound for some type of meetup, right?

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on May 14, 2017, 04:15:08 am
The fact that Cirno got a game as 12.8 was one of them, but really that was more like the amalgamation of her ending up in PoFV, ZUN's direction on the role of fairies in Gensokyo, then being included in Sangetsusei and eventually the declaration of war idea, which is probably when he started thinking about it as a game idea (the game coming out about a year and a half after the relevant manga parts). Or perhaps he wrote it the special chapter because of the idea. Point being that ZUN liking a character and the fandom liking the character can be parallel while still not being all that related.
Speaking of that, what do you think of mauve's suggestion that SWR might have been 10.8 based on the 10800 port? If true, what would this theoretical 10.5 be? One pecularity of ZUN is he never wastes stuff, so we likely have already seen it in some form.

Tasofro could have also wanted to avoid the port 10500, but it doesn't seem to be a special number.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on May 14, 2017, 06:33:25 am
I think it's worth considering at least? The IaMP caster going with 7500 sounds deliberate and along the lines of being close enough to the common 8000 port, and 10800 is out there enough that it makes sense for that to be the connection. If there were another data point (like if HM did it too, etc) it would be a lot stronger. If you're looking for my thoughts...

Being considered for 10.8 instead of .3 (as Soku was) suggests maybe that it was intended to be released between the so-called 10.5 and 11, meaning that ZUN had both in his pocket when Tasofro began. However, the development train of 10 -> 10.5 ->11 had no actual gaps -- Mountain of Faith released in August 2007, alongside Scarlet Weather Rhapsody's first demo, which itself was released fully in May 2008, alongside Subterranean Animism's trial, which itself released fully a few months later.

Taking this into consideration, note that by the time of SWR's first demo it was already numbered 10.5. This means that in one scenario for this theory, ZUN would have had to be planning/developing for 10.5 while developing MoF, and then realizing that he wouldn't be able to finish MoF as well as that game before Tasofro opened with SWR, allowing them to take 10.5 and shelving his game for later. Except, this was the golden period where SA would come out the next year, and in the meantime we had ZUN working on SSiB every month, SaBND every month, and CiLR every three months. There's no way he was bothering with such a game at this point, which makes it hard to believe that he might have been planning for it so far in advance and not doing anything with it until way later.

Another flawed idea is that rather than the 10.5 game having to be shelved for later, it was MoF that was pushed back, and it was the other game that was made first: Shoot the Bullet. This would make StB 9.5 instead of 10.5, giving Tasofro the number. But StB was out at the end of 2005 and was originally planned for that Summer alongside BAiJR and PoFV, which makes it wayyyy too early (and still too tightly packed) to be possible to have MoF also in hand. Besides that, this is when ZUN had to take a break from doujin activities for a while.

Rather, we know that MoF was in the planning phases in late 2006 (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/4354569/). It's in this post that ZUN says he's coming back to Touhou after his break, and gives us one of the first examples of him saying that he really doesn't like going back to old work (this being the reason StB didn't get its planned expansion or PoFV getting more patches, even after his break). He more or less says that during his break he eventually got carried away with new ideas that ended up spiraling into a new work; this would become Touhou 10. He then says it would probably be released next Summer, which it was.

So like, we have a pretty solid mental map of ZUN here. I don't see any immediate room for such a game, so if anything it would have really had to be morphed into something way down the line. Even still, you could make the simple argument that Tasofro just wanted to keep the numbering open just in case ZUN wanted to make a new side game, but then ended up not needing to. I suppose that's possible, but all the interesting meaning is lost in that case.


That aside, to support the subject of ZUN never wasting stuff, there's this nugget:
Quote from: The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers
JS: Have you ever started a Touhou game and didn’t finish it? Are there unreleased Touhou?
ZUN: Because I’m making them on my own, obviously I’m not really beholden to other people. So the only time it happens is when I play it and then I go, “Oh, this isn’t much fun.” So I’ve had games in the series, or I’ve had times, where I’ve gone back and made changes. That happens and it’s a process of improvement. I don’t think I’ve ever cancelled a Touhou game. Every Touhou game that I’ve set out to make has been released or come out.
So this would also support that a theoretical 10.5, if it ever existed, would have later made it as a different game.



oops i made a big history dump
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on May 14, 2017, 07:23:27 am
Oops while researching things I broke the mystery.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070527084336/http://www.tasofro.net:80/diary/index.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20070826105835/http://www.tasofro.net:80/diary/index.html

Scarlet Weather Rhapsody was considered Touhou 9.8 at the time of the Reitaisai 4 exhibition play. By the time the C72 demo rolled around it was pushed to 10.5 for quote "secret reasons". Somehow I didn't know this, but ok. I think it can safely be said that it wasn't intended to be 10.8.

If you want to stretch, maybe the port was 9800 at first and then they changed it but only the 9 to 10, and they forgot the 5 part lol
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on May 14, 2017, 08:42:06 am
Ow, sorry for making you go to such trouble. I'd crunched the numbers myself, and decided it's quite impossible. The timeframe was only about 2 months, and they probably weren't even working on the netcode during the period (the C72 trial has no netplay).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: CyberAngel on May 14, 2017, 02:42:51 pm
is it plausible that, if it isn't alice due tew either not being present or wanting no part of it, that the player characters fight each other? after all, all four of them are going towards the same area, so they're bound for some type of meetup, right?

All characters always follow the same path in all games, and the only time when they fought among each other was when some were (rightfully) suspected of causing an incident themselves.

That aside, as much as I'd be happy to see Alice again myself, thinking that she'd be the boss is a very naive way of thinking. The latter parts of the games have always been completely unpredictable, so such an easy option is never the one to happen. (Remember how people hoped to fight Watatsukis in LoLK?)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: mauve on May 14, 2017, 05:19:46 pm
i still think it's possible 10.8 was the working version

at the very least, they knew they had to bump it to 10.x and weren't sure what ZUN was going to do numberwise otherwise
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2017, 06:34:17 pm
So I'm using Aya/Spring for my practice runs now. Just a quick question: how do you increase the PIV in this game? I've noticed that ending non-spells and spells early with a Season seems to do it. What else helps in increasing the PIV here?

Pardon my ignorance; I'm more accustomed to playing for survival than score.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 14, 2017, 07:33:34 pm
The only way to increase PiV is by clearing bullets with your release. The more bullets you clear, the more your PiV increases. Using higher level releases also gives you higher PiV increases (for example, level 1 release will create tiny green items, which only increase your PiV a little bit. Level 6 creates big green items, which increases your PiV a lot).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2017, 07:37:46 pm
The only way to increase PiV is by clearing bullets with your release. The more bullets you clear, the more your PiV increases. Using higher level releases also gives you higher PiV increases (for example, level 1 release will create tiny green items, which only increase your PiV a little bit. Level 6 creates big green items, which increases your PiV a lot).

Sweet, thanks. That explains the correlation between ending cards early with Seasons and a PIV increase. Guess it's time to shift focus on unleashing 6 when the screen is filled with garbage.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 14, 2017, 07:44:30 pm
There's actually also a scaling thing going on, where it takes more season items to go from level 5 to level 6 than it does to go from level 1 to level 2. So sometimes it's more profitable to spam lower level flashbombs than to save up for level 6. But it's really up to the individual to see what works for them.

Unrelated to that, this is some stuff I found while testing. It's not perfect by any means, but it's still interesting until we get the usual shot type analysis.

Quote
All tested on Etarnity's opening nonspell on Easy at 2 power. Results may be different at higher power levels.

Reimu shotgunning 6 spring sub options: 16 second mark (at the bottom of the screen, 2 of the sub options are unable to hit the boss)
Reimu 6 winter sub options: 17 second mark
(Did not test with Reimu summer or autumn, as it's nearly impossible to get all the bullets to hit the boss with those types)

Reimu no shooting, lvl 6 winter release on top of boss: 21 second mark
Reimu shooting, lvl 6 winter release away from boss: 21 second mark
Reimu shooting, lvl 6 winter release on top of boss: 24 second mark

Reimu no shooting, lvl 6 autumn release on top of boss: Did not clear pattern before release ended
Reimu shooting, lvl 6 autumn release away from boss: Did not clear pattern before release ended
Reimu shooting, lvl 6 autumn release on top of boss: 21 second mark

(Couldn't clear pattern before the release eneded with spring and summer releases)

Reimu no sub options: 14 second mark
Aya focused no sub options: 12 second mark
Aya unfocus shotgunning no sub options: 16 second mark
Aya unfocus no sub options (bottom of the screen): 13 second mark
Marisa no sub options: 15 second mark
Cirno focused shotgunning no sub options: 17 second mark (may be a higher number, it's difficult to get all her shots to hit the boss)
Cirno focused no sub options (bottom of the screen): 14 second mark
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on May 14, 2017, 08:16:46 pm
Ow, sorry for making you go to such trouble. I'd crunched the numbers myself, and decided it's quite impossible.
was kinda fun tbh
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2017, 11:47:27 pm
There's actually also a scaling thing going on, where it takes more season items to go from level 5 to level 6 than it does to go from level 1 to level 2. So sometimes it's more profitable to spam lower level flashbombs than to save up for level 6. But it's really up to the individual to see what works for them.

I notice I am making more 2 and 3 shots, especially in the beginnings of Stage 2 and 3. Stage 1 Normal doesn't warrant saving anything up, but carefully timed larger releases later in Stage 3 seem to be pretty advantageous.

I dunno, there's a lot of flexibility to work with, fortunately, to see when releasing what pays off the most for how I play.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 15, 2017, 12:20:50 am
I'm still trying to work out the kinks in my Stages 1-3 run for this game. I managed what I thought was a pretty good run- only one stupid death and releases in all the right times- only to get a score much lower than what I've managed before. I'm currently running Winter Reimu, but I'm considering trying out summer for the more convenient stage portions (really, they are the bane of my existence,) and convenient releases.

Anyone know the best time for releasing in Stage 1? Right now I'm just doing Eternity's first spell, but spell bonus is also a thing I'd like. The reason why I'm releasing on Stage 1 at all is for the PiV.

Forward note- I am not a scoring expert, or even a scoring adept, I only just managed to 1CC DDC on Normal today. Really, I'm just trying to maximize score in the first 3 stages in order to get lives in preparation for the latter half of the game (praise the death of life pieces!)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 15, 2017, 02:27:52 am
Hell yeah got my first TH16 1cc normal, AyaSpring.

I ended with 0 lives and 0 bombs, but I made it.

What I can say is that the Fall release was killing me constantly from accidentally ramming bosses and enemies because it didn't do enough damage to kill it/me being stupid and ramming the boss.

Fun.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Chill Observer on May 15, 2017, 06:53:16 am
This is what happens if you cancel too many bullets at once with a release. (https://clips.twitch.tv/AbrasiveHyperAnteaterDatBoi)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Aeteas on May 15, 2017, 09:51:14 am
This is what happens if you cancel too many bullets at once with a release. (https://clips.twitch.tv/AbrasiveHyperAnteaterDatBoi)

I discovered this a couple days ago. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1341260.html#msg1341260) If anyone's curious, this cancel is probably 75k-80k PIV. That's about how much it takes to crash the game. There's actually a simple trick that lets you get the cancel without the crashing the game, and you'll be able to see it once I get a score I'm happy with. In any case, I think someone should complain to ZUN about this.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on May 15, 2017, 09:55:34 am
Oh dear, I actually wanted to try using a spring release on that post-Lily White pattern but once I got to it, I forgot I didn't have a full release bar.

I'm kind of glad now though, crashing the game would've been really sad!  Hahaha
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 15, 2017, 04:56:43 pm
So, do we have any ideas when the jewel case will be revealed? When is it usually released? Will ZUN post it on his blog, or will it be revealed at the event in August? Please say it will be earlier than August. I do love me some speculation.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on May 15, 2017, 05:31:38 pm
So, do we have any ideas when the jewel case will be revealed? When is it usually released? Will ZUN post it on his blog, or will it be revealed at the event in August? Please say it will be earlier than August. I do love me some speculation.

Usually the jewel case is posted days before the event.  ZUN always makes a "Hey I'll shortly be selling this new game, please look forward to it" blog post, like how he did with the one showing Eternity.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 15, 2017, 07:11:20 pm
This is what happens if you cancel too many bullets at once with a release. (https://clips.twitch.tv/AbrasiveHyperAnteaterDatBoi)

OK that's pretty hilarious. As I'm playing Normal, not Lunatic, maybe I don't need to worry about this so much? I'll find out.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on May 15, 2017, 08:04:42 pm
Usually the jewel case is posted days before the event.  ZUN always makes a "Hey I'll shortly be selling this new game, please look forward to it" blog post, like how he did with the one showing Eternity.
Having witnessed the development of both DDC and LoLK, I remember that ZUN actually already revealed the jewel cases of these two games several weeks prior to the respective Summer Comikets (around mid to late July). It's only the trial CDs that he reveals them only a few days before their release.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 15, 2017, 08:24:54 pm
Having witnessed the development of both DDC and LoLK, I remember that ZUN actually already revealed the jewel cases of these two games several weeks prior to the respective Summer Comikets (around mid to late July). It's only the trial CDs that he reveals them only a few days before their release.
That's a relief, at least somewhat, since we won't know for sure. Really, I don't know how I'm going to survive until August with just the demo. There's so many hints and loose ends (what's the deal with Eternity "looking up to god?" What's Reimu referring to in her dialogue after defeating Aunn? Why does Reimu think a mountain hag, fairy, and komainu are related? Are the protagonists going to fight each other in Stage 4?) The jewel case showing off the final boss (or ZUN could be obnoxious and use the extra boss like in EoSD and PCB, but I doubt that will happen) might give us some more hints, especially if they're holding this "Jade Scepter" that Tenkuushou refers to.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 15, 2017, 09:14:02 pm
That's a relief, at least somewhat, since we won't know for sure. Really, I don't know how I'm going to survive until August with just the demo. There's so many hints and loose ends (what's the deal with Eternity "looking up to god?" What's Reimu referring to in her dialogue after defeating Aunn? Why does Reimu think a mountain hag, fairy, and komainu are related? Are the protagonists going to fight each other in Stage 4?) The jewel case showing off the final boss (or ZUN could be obnoxious and use the extra boss like in EoSD and PCB, but I doubt that will happen) might give us some more hints, especially if they're holding this "Jade Scepter" that Tenkuushou refers to.

The jewel case tends to muddy the waters more than clarify anything, hilariously enough. The one exception I remember being DDC, as Sakuna's silhouette was pretty distinct. Apart from that, there have been some incredible attempts to find commonalities. Like I think one person noted a striking similarity between UFO's jewel case and Malmsteen's Fire and Ice album cover.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 15, 2017, 10:02:17 pm
The jewel case tends to muddy the waters more than clarify anything, hilariously enough. The one exception I remember being DDC, as Sakuna's silhouette was pretty distinct. Apart from that, there have been some incredible attempts to find commonalities. Like I think one person noted a striking similarity between UFO's jewel case and Malmsteen's Fire and Ice album cover.
Yeah, I've been looking into previous game names, direct translations of the Japanese names, and jewel case combinations. The most confusing ones were probably IaMP and HM, although those are fighting games, so they don't really apply. The vaguest direct translated name is probably UFO's "Star Lotus Ship," the only relevant word being ship (while still being pretty useless).

Really, I've got a couple theories as to the plot of HSiFS, but the one that covers the translation name and the one that covers the english name don't really have any overlap, with the latter being all but ruled out. The "hidden star" could be anything, now that the chance of an eclipse messing with the weather has been tossed out and replaced with different weather in different areas. The Jade Scepter probably refers to either a Ruyi or a Shaku (not that I knew anything about either of those until I googled "japanese jade scepter"), but still that's kinda vague, other than shaku being used for Taoist and Shinto rituals, and Ruyi being used in Buddhism. There's also this thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazu_Hyakki_Tsurezure_Bukuro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazu_Hyakki_Tsurezure_Bukuro) (which I reached through the wikipedia page on Ruyi), which makes me think the final boss could be the tsukumogami of a ritual jade scepter. Who wants to mess with the weather. Because reasons. And something about a star. Unless the star is the extra stage boss, thus being "hidden." Hm, this seems to have circled around to the Extra-bosses-on-jewel-cases thing. Maybe it's too much to hope that it'll be like IN, where both the final and extra bosses were on the jewel case?

EDIT: Also, ZUN said that DDC started a new storyline in Gensokyo, just like how MoF did with Moriya shrine conspiracies. The final boss being a tsukumogami could be because of the Miracle Mallet in DDC.

ANOTHER EDIT: Expanding my above theory- thr final boss is the tsukumogami of a ritual jade scepter used to appease the storm god Susanoo.  Now being a salty unused tsukumogami (because the outside world is turning from religion to science, blah blah MoF,) they decide to mess with the weather instead of fixing it. The extra stage boss ends up being a storm youkai, and Kogasa shows up in either the final or extra stage and ties with Nue on midboss appearances. The hidden star is... A simultaneous yet unrelated plot.

Okay, this is sounding a blazing hell of a lot like the fanmade game idea I had a couple weeks ago.

Finally, since LoLK revolved around the moon and HSiFS revolves around a star, the next game will end up being about the sun or something. Because sun/moon/stars. Insert Utsuho, Amaterasu, etc.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on May 16, 2017, 01:11:50 am
The Jade Scepter probably refers to either a Ruyi or a Shaku (not that I knew anything about either of those until I googled "japanese jade scepter"), but still that's kinda vague, other than shaku being used for Taoist and Shinto rituals, and Ruyi being used in Buddhism.
Actually the comparison of zhang to ruyi or Shaku is to help people who already knew about either to more easily visualize it, and not so helpful if you don't, because zhang predates both by at least a millennium. We know the original purposes of the latter two - Shaku for courtiers to write memo on, ruyi from a backscratcher into a purely ornamental object, but can only guess at the Neolithic/early Bronze mystery that is zhang.

For HSiFS, the jade ritual ladle sense of zhang seems most relevant, now that we know the earlier version of the main title also has "star" in it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 16, 2017, 01:57:14 am
I think it's important to note that the game's title is generally very tangentially related, if not completely unrelated, to the story the game is based on. Like, I don't think we've had any game where the title's been a direct reference to the final boss's original legend or story.

I'm sure ZUN will add stuff to make the story fit the title (like he did with Miko's "hearing ten people" evolving into "hearing ten desires"), but if his past games are anything to go by the "jade scepter" and "hidden star" won't be a part of the original myth, or else will be a very small part of the myth.

So looking up stuff based on that is probably futile.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on May 16, 2017, 02:43:31 am
I think it's important to note that the game's title is generally very tangentially related, if not completely unrelated, to the story the game is based on. Like, I don't think we've had any game where the title's been a direct reference to the final boss's original legend or story.

I'm sure ZUN will add stuff to make the story fit the title (like he did with Miko's "hearing ten people" evolving into "hearing ten desires"), but if his past games are anything to go by the "jade scepter" and "hidden star" won't be a part of the original myth, or else will be a very small part of the myth.
Oh, surely the so-called "Eastern Record of Wind Gods ~ Mountain of Faith." is about wind gods whose worship is focused on sacred mountains?

More seriously, Touhou titles are chosen for the imagery. Sometimes the images they conjure are pivotal to the plot, sometimes not.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 16, 2017, 03:08:24 am
Oh, surely the so-called "Eastern Record of Wind Gods ~ Mountain of Faith." is about wind gods whose worship is focused on sacred mountains?

More seriously, Touhou titles are chosen for the imagery. Sometimes the images they conjure are pivotal to the plot, sometimes not.
So the gist of it is... We really won't know for sure until it actually comes out.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 16, 2017, 03:16:00 am
Nah, you're misunderstanding me. Of course the title refers to something in the plot. I'm saying that you'd never guess from the title that the "Wind God" they're referring to is based on one of the gods of the Suwa shrine. The most direct reference to a real legend we've gotten is "Shining Needle Castle", which is still fairly vague.

While the Jade Scepter or the Hidden Star will probably be plot relevant in the game, I'm saying I don't think they'll be plot relevant (or at least not super important) in the legend that the game is based on (assuming ZUN doesn't go the EoSD route and make the final boss 100% original, which would be kind of weird at this point).

.....Unless I misunderstood what you were saying.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Onion on May 16, 2017, 03:19:23 am
Least it's at least a little related. It could've been like "Eastern Night Vignette ~ Imperishable Night", where the premise is the whole title and nothing's left for speculation. For now, we have
Mima is a star... who's been hidden... and her staff looks like a sword... and her hair's green.
Mystery solved.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 16, 2017, 03:27:09 am
Least it's at least a little related. It could've been like "Eastern Night Vignette ~ Imperishable Night", where the premise is the whole title and nothing's left for speculation. For now, we have
  • A star
  • Something hidden
  • Some sorta sword
  • Jade
Mima is a star... who's been hidden... and her staff looks like a sword... and her hair's green.
Mystery solved.
Joint plot between Meme-a and Yuuka to revive PC-98 canon confirmed. Yuuka's the four seasons, Mima's the hidden star. The Jade scepter is Sariel's staff.

Edit: Or rather, Mima's staff is the scepter, like you said, and the moon on the point is the Lunar occult ball.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 16, 2017, 11:33:49 am
Increasing PIV, on Normal anyway, seems to work a lot better by releasing at 3 or even 2 at crucial times/parts of the screen, as opposed to saving up for 6 and releasing it when the screen is full. I haven't been able to replicate crashing the game yet, but at the very least, saving up for 6 instead of using 3's and 2's when you can and should doesn't seem to pay off except as an occasional thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Raikaria on May 16, 2017, 12:10:04 pm
So; with Lilly White appearing as a Stage 3 Midboss dosen't this make Lilly White the most recurring non-playable enemy character?

She's been present in 3 main series games; PCB; PofV and now HSFS; as well as 1 spinoff GFW. That's 4 games where she's appeared as an enemy character. And she managed this without being in STB or DS; where pretty much every character appears; and counting those she was previously tied with Kogasa and Nue at 3 enemy appearances [UFO; TD and DS]; and perhaps a couple of others.

And Lilly White has managed this all without being an actual boss once. Even in GFW.

Forget Cirno. Lilly White's the persistent one!

Has ZUN ever at any time "borrowed from the fandom", or do i see this hope with every new game because wishful thinking?

Parsee's typical elf ears. Parsee never actually had those in SA but when she had art in SoPM; there they were. I mean; her ears were noticeable before and that could have been ZUN-art [One ear looks vaguely elfish while the other looks human] but she clearly had ear lobes in her SA art but her SoPM artwork dosen't and they're styrotypical elf ears.

SA Parsee art: https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/e/ed/Th11Parsee.png
SoPM art: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:ThGKParsee.png

Also I believe similar happened for Koakuma's wings; except that was a manga panel. She clearly dosn't have back-wings [At least; ones large enough to be visible] in her EoSD sprite; but in Strange and Bright Deity 14; she had wings on her back [I'm not gonna mention Moon+Earth since that's a little questionable in it's own right]

But these are minor character design tweaks from the fandom. Not taking an entire character idea.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: GenericArrangements on May 16, 2017, 12:45:07 pm
I wouldn't necessarily take art from the manga as a definite source for canon details. Obviously ZUN doesn't draw them himself, so it ends up being dependent on whatever the actual artist thinks looks good. As a result things becomes inconsistent. An example of this is in WaHH when Kogasa is seen disconnected from her umbrella. Kogasa shouldn't actually be able to do that.

SoPM is possibly a slightly different story though.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 16, 2017, 01:43:25 pm
Yeah, when I say " has ZUN borrowed from the fandom" I don't mean "did an artist drawing official manga use anything" but rather, has ZUN himself actually borrowed from the fandom in his games. So far the answer seems to be "no" or at best a hard "maybe" on stuff like the name of Daiyousei, so it still puzzles me that people still hold onto hope that ZUN will lift a fan-made character wholesale, especially one from the western fandom.

Maybe it's a troll claim, though, like speculations about Mima's return.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 16, 2017, 03:31:23 pm
Yeah, when I say " has ZUN borrowed from the fandom" I don't mean "did an artist drawing official manga use anything" but rather, has ZUN himself actually borrowed from the fandom in his games. So far the answer seems to be "no" or at best a hard "maybe" on stuff like the name of Daiyousei, so it still puzzles me that people still hold onto hope that ZUN will lift a fan-made character wholesale, especially one from the western fandom.
Which fan-made character are we talking about here? I lost track of the discussion.

And yeah, it's hard to tell when people are joking about absurd stuff like using fanmade characters...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on May 17, 2017, 12:10:01 am
Which fan-made character are we talking about here? I lost track of the discussion.

And yeah, it's hard to tell when people are joking about absurd stuff like using fanmade characters...

I didn't check the whole discussion (and am quite lazy to do so @__@) but I believe they're talking about a Mushroom-youkai called Masha, which was created in a popular Walfas.swf back in the day. 

Some people in the thread said Zun was taking inspiration from her for one reason or another, I think.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 17, 2017, 12:35:42 am
I didn't check the whole discussion (and am quite lazy to do so @__@) but I believe they're talking about a Mushroom-youkai called Masha, which was created in a popular Walfas.swf back in the day. 

Some people in the thread said Zun was taking inspiration from her for one reason or another, I think.
Well, Stage 4 will, after all, be taking place in the Forest of Magic, which is known for its mushrooms. Maybe they were speculating there'd be a mushroom youkai (or fairy)? That would be plenty of opportunity for Masha to pop up. It would then only be a matter of time until people say "ZUN should use Masha in HSiFS!"
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on May 17, 2017, 12:37:31 am
Comrades, here's the one thing he most likely had adopted from the fandom, and it's the name of a ULiL trophy.
Pichuun!! (Silver)
Achieve 10000 combo damage.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 17, 2017, 02:19:55 am
Comrades, here's the one thing he most likely had adopted from the fandom, and it's the name of a ULiL trophy.
That might not even have been ZUN, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 17, 2017, 07:44:59 pm
Quoting myself from the Blogging thread, because LoLK bullets + highly abusable scoring system = broken

Spent 30 minutes messing with the LoLK stages patch for TH16 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOzx_UIOwcs).

The season system is so hilariously broken when LoLK-levels of bullets are on the screen.

Some notes from me:
  • Unless the bullets come from a single point on the boss, Autumn isn't as broken.
  • Spring has become the best season to use. Clearing an entire screen of bullets on Lunatic is able to get you back up to level 6.
  • Ringo's 2nd card is great for farming PiV. Just release when the dango rings appear, and you'll get tons of PiV and be back to level 6.
  • The max PiV is 500 000 points per item.
  • The hard limit to the PiV might make it hard to get higher and higher scores/lives, unless ZUN uncaps it for the full version.

tl;dr it's hax
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 17, 2017, 09:05:25 pm
Quote
Unless the bullets come from a single point on the boss, Autumn isn't as broken.
Spring has become the best season to use. Clearing an entire screen of bullets on Lunatic is able to get you back up to level 6.

I was talking to someone about this elsewhere. In the full game (not the LoLK patch), spring might actually have some really high scoring potential, assuming 1) fall gets nerfed a bit, as people have speculated it will, #2) we get more patterns like the one the big fairies shoot in stage 3, and #3) ZUN fixes the "too much score time for game to crash" thing. Spring is way more useful in certain places, and the fact that it doesn't deal damage might give it an advantage somewhere.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on May 17, 2017, 09:20:40 pm
Spring is way more useful in certain places, and the fact that it doesn't deal damage might give it an advantage somewhere.
-Note: I'm not a scoring expert, I'm actually kind of a noob, so take this with a grain of salt-
If it doesn't deal damage, then it doesn't automatically fail the card. Thus, you get the spell card bonus, which starts ramping up in the end game. Really, this is the first time we've seen a way to cancel bullets that doesn't fail the card, which is a big deal. This is good for the survival aspect too, if there ends up being a particularly nasty spell card (we're talking crazy RNG-based spell or the like) in stage 5 or 6.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 17, 2017, 09:33:35 pm
Well, I can attest that the release does some damage to bosses anyway. But yeah, even at 6, the homing shots of Spring take a while to kill even the weakest fairy.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 18, 2017, 07:18:43 pm
  • Spring has become the best season to use. Clearing an entire screen of bullets on Lunatic is able to get you back up to level 6.

Not sure, with just how abuseable Fall is even when you're not going for score (though I do believe that season will become acquainted with the nerf bat by the time the full game is out)

Also Spring does deal damage to everything it hits, and ALWAYS fails spellcards if you use it even if it doesn't reach the boss because it makes you invincible when you release (notice the character blinks blue for a few moments, the same as during a bomb or right after respawning). This doesn't happen with any of the other releases

As a side note, that LoLK-in-HSiFS mod looks absolutely amazing and I really hope the person making it gets to port everything because LoLK's patterns + HSiFS's season thingamajigs = oh shit
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 18, 2017, 07:36:04 pm
As a side note, that LoLK-in-HSiFS mod looks absolutely amazing and I really hope the person making it gets to port everything because LoLK's patterns + HSiFS's season thingamajigs = oh shit

He said he didn't expect it to be received so well and that he'll make the rest of the game. Though he said that he can't add additional stages to the demo, so he'll either have to make a separate patch for 4/5/6 or 4/5/Ex or something, or he'll have to wait for the full game. Or I could have misunderstood something.

Unrelated to that... when using higher leveled releases, you get larger green point items. Does anyone know if these larger items are worth more score, or if they just increase the PiV more?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 18, 2017, 09:38:41 pm
Yeah, I expected I'd have to wait until the full HSiFS game first. But it'll be worth the wait.

Unrelated to that... when using higher leveled releases, you get larger green point items. Does anyone know if these larger items are worth more score, or if they just increase the PiV more?

I'm pretty sure it's just the latter. Though, they do increase your score so they're probably counted as point items at max value, meaning you'll get more score anyway because of the higher PIV you'll get.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 18, 2017, 09:50:44 pm
Right right... So that means that by the end game (once the PiV reaches the cap) you're better off spamming low level releases than saving up for high level ones, since they'll give you the same amount of points....
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Mero on May 18, 2017, 10:10:38 pm
Someone in the scoreboard mentioned how full game routes would have to be tweaked for limited extends if the current system stays, since it probably wouldn't be profittable to spend that many resources before the more loaded late game.
If Autumn releases do get nerfed in some way, and we still get that many extends, I can see Spring becoming a pretty good option for score, since its i-frames could help with not having bombs handy to graze (and you can clear stage enemies without potentially killing yourself xd)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Chill Observer on May 19, 2017, 02:52:30 am
Release items are PIV/10, regardless of the level of release you used.

So yes, level of release only affects the PIV gain.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Ripaah on May 19, 2017, 04:05:12 pm
edit: If someone is interested in see Cirno + Summer beating Lunatic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oNfIUaY0bc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oNfIUaY0bc)

I noticed that ZUN didn't change the loading screen:
(https://i.imgur.com/sLwQXeV.png)

Neither the Pause Menu text (translated by ThCrap):
(https://i.imgur.com/LrE8iyO.png)

They are the same from LoLK.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on May 19, 2017, 08:45:01 pm
edit: If someone is interested in see Cirno + Summer beating Lunatic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oNfIUaY0bc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oNfIUaY0bc)

Pretty certain these bombs are going to get shortened by the full release. Cirno's really goes on forever.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Plubio on May 19, 2017, 09:57:49 pm
They are the same from LoLK.

Keep in mind that ZUN has been used the same sprites since PoFV (2005).
I guess that if it works there's no need to change something.

Unless loading screen will have its own background on full release.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 20, 2017, 07:53:11 pm
Keep in mind that ZUN has been used the same sprites since PoFV (2009).
I guess that if it works there's no need to change something.

Unless loading screen will have its own background on full release.

wasn't PoFV released in 2005...?
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/6b1c5549f25d48a498490ad50e5edf8d.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on May 20, 2017, 09:02:50 pm
Keep in mind that ZUN has been used the same sprites since PoFV (2009).
I guess that if it works there's no need to change something.

The real secret behind how ZUN chooses which characters will be playable. Does he already have a player sprite for them.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Plubio on May 20, 2017, 09:20:53 pm
wasn't PoFV released in 2005...?

holy shit why I wrote that.

I thought "oh yes Touhou 9 from 2009".
I'm so sorry.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 21, 2017, 05:23:11 am
holy shit why I wrote that.

I thought "oh yes Touhou 9 from 2009".
I'm so sorry.

it's fine~! i assumed that's why that mistake was made pfft

i pointed it out 'cos that means that he's been using those sprites even earlier than that.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Onion on May 21, 2017, 09:16:37 pm
This post is imagetastic. If anybody has suggestions for hiding them away, do tell.

KimikoMuffin created Masha in his series "Create.swf Adventures", which is in the same format as MS Paint Adventures:
(http://dizzy.pestermom.com/csa/csa01marisa/csa01marisa0196-00.gif)

She has white sleeves longer than her arms. She also has an older version, from after the series.
In story, she was ranked as a Stage 3 Midboss, thus she couldn't possibly show up in this game.
(http://dizzy.pestermom.com/csa/csa01marisa/csa01marisa0603-00.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Havel on May 22, 2017, 08:42:46 pm
I can often chain Fall releases into more Fall releases (especially with Aya's speed), even on Normal difficulty. I'm wondering if the meter gain from cancelled Fall release bullets needs to be reduced. Maybe the level 1 and level 2 Fall releases can have the meter gain from cancelled bullets reduced by 50%?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 24, 2017, 06:24:40 pm
The bar at the bottom left corner seems pretty useful

chops down boss's HP (only if you press C near the boss without getting yourself killed)

and it even turns danmaku into value


I didn't find it out until yesterday...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TrueShadow on June 03, 2017, 04:32:57 pm
So, here's a bit farfetched theory. The story of TH16 will allude to the story of Momotaro.

In case you don't know (shame on you, you not-weeb!), Momotaro is a boy who was born from a giant peach. Then together with his companions a dog, a monkey, and a pheasant, journeyed to defeat a bunch of troublemaking oni.

Now, at the end of the HSiFS demo, Reimu thought about her previous opponents "a fairy, a yamanba, and a komainu", as if there's something linking them. Let's look at the bosses.
So, later bosses may include an oni or a peach-girl. Or less likely, a surprise appearance by Ringo (in the story, Momotaro tamed the animals with dango).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: R. P. Genocraft on June 03, 2017, 05:46:35 pm
peach-girl
TOYOHIME CONFIRMED
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on June 03, 2017, 08:44:17 pm
TOYOHIME CONFIRMED

Uuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jeremie on June 04, 2017, 03:58:46 am
TOYOHIME CONFIRMED

Best Touhou game confirmed!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: the old guy on June 04, 2017, 04:16:55 am
TOYOHIME CONFIRMED

Worst Touhou game confirmed.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TrueShadow on June 04, 2017, 05:51:33 am
Uuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhh
Best Touhou game confirmed!
Worst Touhou game confirmed.
TOYOHIME CONFIRMED
I actually was thinking about Tenshi when I wrote that. But Toyohime works, too. Hey, this time you can beat the crap outta her.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on June 04, 2017, 08:00:11 am
ummmm excuse me it's actually going to be murasa because the name 水蜜 is a variety of peach
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jeremie on June 04, 2017, 10:24:49 am
ummmm excuse me it's actually going to be murasa because the name 水蜜 is a variety of peach

Oh.

Best Touhou game confirmed even more then!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on June 04, 2017, 12:00:06 pm
ummmm excuse me it's actually going to be murasa because the name 水蜜 is a variety of peach

This is fine.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: R. P. Genocraft on June 04, 2017, 01:28:16 pm
I actually was thinking about Tenshi when I wrote that. But Toyohime works, too. Hey, this time you can beat the crap outta her.
ummmm excuse me it's actually going to be murasa because the name 水蜜 is a variety of peach
The three of them then :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: shockdude on June 04, 2017, 04:15:39 pm
The three of them then :V
all of them as stage 4 boss variations.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on June 05, 2017, 01:06:26 am
all of them as stage 4 boss variations.
Depending on how many times you die leading up to stage 4, you fight a different peach girl. The one chosen by dying an absurd amount of times is worth a lot of points, just to troll scorerunners by wasting their resources.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Failure McFailFace on June 05, 2017, 02:26:14 am
Depending on how many times you die leading up to stage 4, you fight a different peach girl. The one chosen by dying an absurd amount of times is worth a lot of points, just to troll scorerunners by wasting their resources.
That sounds both horrifying for score and amazing for survival.

Maybe stage 5's gimmick is based on something similar, where the amount of lives, bombs, and score determines the bullets spawned. A perfect run, with max possible score, would yield no bullets at all. No spell card scores, invincible boss, etc. The boss just won't let you get a single point from her. But then if you are going really badly, then you get some score from the boss to help you on your way.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on June 05, 2017, 03:27:41 am
So, here's a bit farfetched theory. The story of TH16 will allude to the story of Momotaro.

  • Nemuno represents the monkey, because a hag looks human, and human is somewhat closely related to a monkey
Also associated with Kintaro, another oni-slaying child hero with miraculous birth.

DDC also based its central character on a hero of children's tales (LoLK was a Very Special Episode and a pattern breaker like EoSD and SA), so this theory is not farfetched by any means. All we need is to somehow hybridize it with another story that connects it to astronomy and the seasons (lol that's da hard part).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on June 05, 2017, 03:34:14 am
What was DDC cross-legended with? I didn't realize it was anything other than Issun boshi...

legended
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on June 05, 2017, 03:44:06 am
The motivator for DDC was the tsukomogami-fication of tools and the attempted rise of weakling youkai. That was then planted into Issun-Boushi and the amanojaku. Point here is that these were connected by the flipping of the weak; you'd need something to connect the seasons to Momotaro.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on June 05, 2017, 03:55:20 am
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought they were saying DDC featured another legend that was fused with Issun Boshi a la Mikaboshi being crossed with Lucifer in TLC. I get you now.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TrueShadow on June 05, 2017, 04:51:46 am
DDC also based its central character on a hero of children's tales (LoLK was a Very Special Episode and a pattern breaker like EoSD and SA), so this theory is not farfetched by any means. All we need is to somehow hybridize it with another story that connects it to astronomy and the seasons (lol that's da hard part).
The farfetched bit is connecting the three bosses to Momotaro's companions.

Also consider that DDC has no hints to Issun-Boushi at all, except maybe the "Kishinjou" part. We were expecting more "Japanese youkai with Western counterparts".

Quote
Also associated with Kintaro, another oni-slaying child hero with miraculous birth.
Hmm, Kintaro later became one of the retainers of Minamoto no Yorimasa, who with the other retainers destroyed the gang of Shuten-douji.

Now I want Nemuno to appear in WaHH and interact with Suika/Yuugi/Kasen.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on June 05, 2017, 05:14:42 am
What was DDC cross-legended with? I didn't realize it was anything other than Issun boshi...
Actually that's what I meant. This was another find by Itsuari (FiveAnts), The Touhou Fan Who Gets the Most Things Right(tm).

The in-game plot of DDC appears inspired by one particular tale about Ishino Houden (http://www.nihonsanki.jp/en/nihonsanki/), "the Stone Treasure Hall", a rock carved to a near-cubic shape about 6 meters on each side, seemingly meant to be a house (http://blog.goo.ne.jp/hirokazu0630/e/e6f6a9f850e153c2dbbcab14855cd36f) with a pyramid-shaped top, but unfinished and lying on its side - although to our modern eyes, it may look more like a CRT television.

In the version (http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~HASSHI/ishinohoden.html) relevant to DDC, two gods, Ōkuninushi (=Ōnamuchi in the linked page above; intentionally but erroneously rendered "Daikoku" in the SSiB English translation) and his diminutive mentor-sidekick Sukuna-bikona tasked an amanojaku with building a stone hall over one night. As roosters crowed to the coming dawn, the amanojaku fled the site, leaving the palace incomplete and well, incorrectly oriented.

The clue that confirms the connection is in the long interview for DDC: ZUN mentioned the original plan for DDC's final boss to be a team of one giant and one dwarf, which mirror the two gods in the legend.


EDIT: Byyyy the way, as far as speculation goes, I slightly favor the legend of Tanabata (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanabata) and Weaver Princess myself.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: VividMemory2000 on June 05, 2017, 06:44:12 pm
Scenario: Yuuka is an extra stage midboss
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on June 05, 2017, 07:21:56 pm
EDIT: Byyyy the way, as far as speculation goes, I slightly favor the legend of Tanabata (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanabata) and Weaver Princess myself.

I was actually thinking a lot about Tanabata myself too, especially since it's all about stars. 

Curiously the popular Fangame Book of Star Mythology's plot also revolves around it, so it'd be even more curious to see ZUN's take on it!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on June 05, 2017, 09:38:46 pm
EDIT: Byyyy the way, as far as speculation goes, I slightly favor the legend of Tanabata (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanabata) and Weaver Princess myself.
Oooh, that looks promising. It's got the star... Just not the "hidden."

As for how to incorporate seasons... The two lovers could enlist someone with power over seasons to make people unsure of the date so that they can see each other more often.

Also, the 7th day of the 7th month would end up somewhere in midsummer, which is when HSiFS takes place.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on June 06, 2017, 01:22:47 am
Forgot to dump my general opinions, so here they are:

1. DDC was unprecedented in that the demo gave us absolutely no clue about what to expect in the second half. We were never told anything about the existence of storm or castle until the official DDC website went up.

HSiFS has a different problem: we know Stage 4 will take place in the Magic Forest, but still don't have enough information to know where we are headed. Touhou's 4th stages are always a long corridor gauntlet inside or leading towards the final enemy bastion, and we have no prior knowledge of such a thing being there. Perhaps we will be told that some structure has either always existed in the forest or newly sprung up, or we will see a portal (doesn't have to literally be one) at the end of Stage 4 that accomplishes the transition from Magic Forest to the bastion.

Unless of course, the last two stages will return to the sky directly above Gensokyo.

2. You know how the four seasons correspond to four of the five Chinese elements? What about the remaining central element, Earth?

To some pre-BC Chinese scholars, the answer was obvious: they knew of a fifth season in the middle of the year, the Long Summer (often translated "Late Summer"), roughly equivalent to "dog days" in Western culture. This must be the season of Earth.

However, some later medical theorists were not content, since there's no avoiding the fact this Long Summer is barely a month long, while also taking away a part of summer or autumn proper. Thus a more advanced theory was developed to balance all five elements: now the last 18 days in EACH of the four seasons belong to Earth, called 土用 ("For Earth").

The concept has come to be far more popular in Japan (seriously, I doubt one in 10,000 Chinese has ever heard of the term), though in Japan, 土用 doyou generally only refers to the summer one, turning it into the Japanese word for dog days. In other words, we have come full circle. If you read wiki translations, you can see it in Patchouli's Earth-elemented fighting game skill, "Doyou Spear" (mistranslated into "Dew Spear" in the old patches).

TL;DR: Neat background knowledge: the hot late summer days can be considered a fifth season.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on June 06, 2017, 02:15:20 am
I have to disagree with a bit of that- DDC was by no means the first game where the demo gives us no clues. In fact, I'd go as far to say that we get 0 or very few clues from the demo more often than not.

I guess I can kind of sort of see where you're coming from... even though we didn't get anything about makai or buddhists from the UFO demo (which was the "main point" of the second half), we still could pretty much tell that stage 4 would be on the ship, whereas with DDC we had no idea whatsoever what places we'd see in the second half. Though even then, I'd argue that PCB, IN, and TD all gave us no indication either.

My point being, trying to find the plot of the game from the demo has always been wild guessing. DDC was correctly guessed once the jewel case was released, but that was a bit of a special situation due to Sukuna's unusual appearance.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TrueShadow on June 06, 2017, 02:30:19 am
HSiFS has a different problem: we know Stage 4 will take place in the Magic Forest, but still don't have enough information to know where we are headed. Touhou's 4th stages are always a long corridor gauntlet inside or leading towards the final enemy bastion, and we have no prior knowledge of such a thing being there. Perhaps we will be told that some structure has either always existed in the forest or newly sprung up, or we will see a portal (doesn't have to literally be one) at the end of Stage 4 that accomplishes the transition from Magic Forest to the bastion.
Stage 5 will be Marisa's House, distorted by whatever magic artifact Marisa collected but forgot about. Final boss is the tsukumogami of said artifact :v

Joking aside, this is the first time we actually go to Hakurei Shrine and Forest of Magic in the Windows shooting games, huh.

Quote
The hot late summer days can be considered a fifth season. This has a decent chance to be relevant.
Maybe the fourth stage will be the late summer days instead. If we look at the cycle of destruction on the elements: Fire (summer) destroys Metal. Metal (autumn) destroys Wood. Wood (spring) destroys Earth.

It fits with the progression of the stages.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: mauve on June 06, 2017, 02:46:42 am
DDC demo was a huge pile of Castlevania refs and my entire JP feed exploded with jokes about it the instant the announcement for the demo went up. (And Yugioh in the music room.) Considering we got an inverted castle I'm absolutely certain the references were on purpose.

he named it Kishinjou (Kishin's Castle (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Maxim_Kischine)) for crying out loud it was right there in the name

edit: i mean, this video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20859707) was from before the demo even came out
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on June 06, 2017, 03:15:59 am
My bad. I meant "where the second half is set", or more strictly "any dialogue about your next destination". This is all about plot momentum and player motivation, nothing to do with backstory or theme at all. We generally get that at the end of Stage 3. It is the most tenuous in IN, which only has Keine giving a direction meaningless to you the player, but in all six routes of DDC you didn't even see that.

On story predictions:

DDC demo:
We'd just freshly come off Touhou Shinkirou, where not only is the "mirage tower" purely metaphorical, it only appeared three times in the dialogue, in addition to obliquely referenced through the stage title "The Tragedy of Fata Morgana". It also happened on the heels of a notoriously unpredictable roster reveal. There was reason to feel trepidation when faced with yet another building-themed name; the lack of hints in the demo added to the uncertainty.

IN:
The demo offered little on backstory and theme, but once the cover was revealed, Kaguya would have the easiest to read silhouette. On the topic of silhouettes, ZUN said (https://twitter.com/tara_touhou/status/869532810108784640) in last week's Nikenme Radio stream: "everybody seemed to have predicted it's Kaguya-hime, which was appropriate given it was the trilogy finale."

TD demo:
Of all games, TD keeps its cards under wraps the least. You start off with Yuyuko, the single wisest Touhou character laying out the entire theme of the story before you ("the people's desires make past heroes into gods"). A Japanese blogger was able to guess (http://sorane880.blog47.fc2.com/blog-entry-311.html) Prince Shoutoku based on the title reveal alone. They then found ample support in the demo: what Yuyuko said, the suggestion of a religious war, the "Grand Mausoleum" Daishi-byou / "Mausoleum of the Crown Prince" Taishi-byou pun...

If we look at the cycle of destruction on the elements: Fire (summer) destroys Metal. Metal (autumn) destroys Wood. Wood (spring) destroys Earth.

It fits with the progression of the stages.
Yes, a sultry Stage 4 before the wintry Forest of Magic. Itsuari also suggested this possibility.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on June 06, 2017, 05:23:58 am
Now having the forest of magic as stage 5 would be pretty weird and unprecedented. I don't think we've ever had a game where the "new location" was revealed in stage 6. It'd be pretty odd to have stages 1-5 be various known locations around Gensokyo then have stage 6 be somewhere completely new.

I can't imagine ZUN wouldn't introduce a new location either; the only games that didn't introduce a new place in the end game were UFO and LoLK, both of which were special cases and both of which introduced a new place in the demo (which HSiFS hasn't).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on June 06, 2017, 06:05:15 am
the only games that didn't introduce a new place in the end game were UFO and LoLK, both of which were special cases and both of which introduced a new place in the demo (which HSiFS hasn't).
From another perspective, Makai was new to Windows games, and the moon was new to games, period. The HSiFS demo also has a somewhat new stage: the Hakurei Shrine, which has not served as a shooting game backdrop since SoEW. It's not very exciting, but it is a thing.

Quote
I don't think we've ever had a game where the "new location" was revealed in stage 6. It'd be pretty odd to have stages 1-5 be various known locations around Gensokyo then have stage 6 be somewhere completely new.
Agreed and agreed. Even Stage 4 being this close to home (the Forest of Magic was featured in GFW, in addition to being one of the most thoroughly explored locations in the manga) is unprecedented. This is why I find the topic interesting in the first place.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: mauve on June 06, 2017, 07:44:47 am
i feel like the thing with DDC was that the entire game's setting concept started as a joke and he worked backwards from there. first three bosses a merman, dullahan, and werewolf? naming the game kishin's castle? an inverted castle? i mean...

but while the theming was all really obvious Castlevania jokes, the story was focused entirely on the tsukumogami. which is barely mentioned in the demo outside of the player's weapons, at character select.

he does this pattern a lot, tbh; game theming is generally separated from the game's core story.

PCB: theme was seasons, real story was the cherry blossom trees (core game mechanic)
IN: theme was a false moon, real story was those who came from the moon (mentioned in the intro)
MoF: theme was a mountain in fall, real story was gods (the first three bosses before nitori being gods)
SA: theme was a trip underground, real story was the geyser (again, mentioned in the intro)

etc etc. this goes on. always misdirection, with not much mention given to the real.

so if you want my opinion: the four seasons are absolutely a red herring, as the main theme has been so in every game so far has been.

my bet? it's not the four seasons part that's important, it's the hidden star part.

celestials up to no good, clearly. except more likely celestial bodies, given the game's title.

finding this god (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenominakanushi) to be a fairly plausible reference, tbh
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on June 06, 2017, 02:37:12 pm
Considering the trend following the past few games where ZUN uses one game's plot as fuel for another's (The whole religious arc, or the Lunarian invasion's shenanigans), part of me wonders if something from LoLK or ULiL/AoCF will be what ultimately prompted HSiFS's plot.

The only far-fetched relation-and-theory I can come up with of would have something to do with Hecatia's 'arrival' at Gensokyo prompting another western god to show up?  Not that I can think of any western deity which could relate with the incident (or a Jade Scepter/Hidden Star for the most part). 

While it's pretty obvious it isn't ZUN's MO to consult much of Western Mythology for his games, since Heca's shown up on LoLK there's always the possibility of him trying to expand his horizons once again, eh?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Alrysc on June 06, 2017, 10:36:00 pm
That radio tower from Oriental Sacred Palace is in the Forest of Magic, right? If the fairies actually finished doing what they were doing, it'd be a sacred place in the Forest of Magic. Maybe that could have something to do with something.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: BernkastelWitch on June 06, 2017, 10:42:23 pm
Considering the trend following the past few games where ZUN uses one game's plot as fuel for another's (The whole religious arc, or the Lunarian invasion's shenanigans), part of me wonders if something from LoLK or ULiL/AoCF will be what ultimately prompted HSiFS's plot.

The only far-fetched relation-and-theory I can come up with of would have something to do with Hecatia's 'arrival' at Gensokyo prompting another western god to show up?  Not that I can think of any western deity which could relate with the incident (or a Jade Scepter/Hidden Star for the most part). 

While it's pretty obvious it isn't ZUN's MO to consult much of Western Mythology for his games, since Heca's shown up on LoLK there's always the possibility of him trying to expand his horizons once again, eh?

It would be nice to see ZUN connect HSiFS to LoLK since there seems to be an ongoing story arc but who knows with him. And I wouldn't be surprised if in this or a future game we may get at least one more Western Mythological being. Just my own theories.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on June 06, 2017, 11:17:13 pm
IIRC he said the ULiL story arc would be ending with AoCF, though that doesn't necessarily mean HSiFS will have nothing to do with LoLK. I also don't have a source so I could just be remembering wrong.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on June 07, 2017, 03:53:43 pm
As for Western Mythological Beings(TM), I think that the Stage 4 boss could be a Celestial/Hermit/Heaven-person/whatever who represents the constellation Orion. Orion because it's a well-known constellation, and it's a winter one, which corresponds with the Forest of Magic being all wintry. The midboss could be a rabbit or dog representing the constellations of Canis or Lepus respectively. Idk, probably not likely, so it's just an idea.

As for stages 5 and 6, I think they're going to be the tsukumogami of the Jade Scepter and the Dragon God (or an avatar of the big DG), regardless of who the stage 4 boss is.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Suspicious person on June 07, 2017, 08:38:13 pm
Yes, a sultry Stage 4 before the wintry Forest of Magic. Itsuari also suggested this possibility.
A bit late, but I think the 5th season could be a better fit for extra stage : considering that the 4 usual seasons are already used for difficulty (ie : winter / lunatic) and that extra stages usually have some sort of fancy but thematically relevant difficulty name, I think midsummer  would work pretty well for extra, even moreso since the actual season they're supposed to be in is midsummer (assuming we don’t go the LoLK route and the season issue gets fixed by the end of the main storyline). Extra could be like "damp midsummer" or something like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TheTeff007 on June 07, 2017, 08:52:12 pm
If the incident is fixed by the end of the main game, the extra stage could take place in either the current season or a place where the effect of the seasons doesn't reach. On the other hand, if the extra boss is the culprit,maybe the stage will cycle in seasons. Wouldn't be the first time ZUN makes changes to the stage (IN Stage 6, MoF Stage 4, UFO stage 3 technically)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ILikeBulletZ on June 08, 2017, 04:58:07 am
A bit late to the party but here's my 2cents about this demo:

Gameplay: Kinda broken and unpolished tbh... but then again, ZUN has to balance not only the release gimmick, but also 16 shots. Its no wonder some of these things are a little overpowered... however if you don't use Releases (Which is how I plan to play the full version, in the case ZUN cant fix the broken Release thing), it actually plays decently and its kinda fun. Not Best Touhou game material, not even close, but it will hopefully turn decent-tier at least (So long as its at least a slightly better than TD I can get into it). Stage portions are kinda meh, ESPECIALLY Stage 2, it looks a lot like LoLK´s stage 2 and its also boring af.

Music: Ehh... its kinda there. Not much of a fan of this game's ost so far, sorry. Only 2 themes I actually really like are Nemuno´s theme and Stage 3 theme. Everything else is honestly kinda forgettable so far.

Best Newcomer/Bossfight: Nemuno, because her theme is among the best so far, I like her design, and is basically pretty cool for a Stage 2 boss... Don't particularly care about the other 2 bosses so far. That said, her nons are stupidly bland. I hope ZUN changes those nons in the final version, even though we all know that most likely ZUN wont change/will barely change the base game as it is now...


Overall... I think it will turn out to be a decent game. However if I am being honest, I expected a bit more from it. Then again, might be a bit unfair to it, because it has to compete with LoLK´s demo (Regardless of how the final game turned out, when LoLK´s demo came out, I was HOOKED to it. I really, really wanted the full version to come out to try the new stages!... Not getting quite the same feeling of urgency with this game´s demo).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: R. P. Genocraft on June 08, 2017, 02:21:25 pm
Am I the only one who likes Nemuno's nonspells? D:
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on June 08, 2017, 09:30:01 pm
Am I the only one who likes Nemuno's nonspells? D:

They're cool but it's slightly frustrating that not only their timers are abysmally small compared to other games' timers, but.  It's just plain streaming.  Even on lunatic you just have to go from one side to the other without even worrying about having to switch your direction because Nemuno herself stops shooting after a while.

I think the only one which doesn't do that is her midboss spell on lunatic, which keeps on shooting almost until the end of the duration.  Still pretty easy.

They're very cool looking, but from a gameplay perspective, they're really boring. 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on June 08, 2017, 10:45:16 pm
Nemuno's nons are very much score things. In order to get the most points out of them you need to get up close, which is bad since it's an aimed pattern and that makes bullets fly all over the place. Since you can't really spam releases (there's a period where you're vulnerable but unable to release), so unless you get the timing down right the nons can turn into an undodgeable mess.

Of course, they're very silly patterns because they exist solely for score. It's almost like ZUN forgot that playing for survival is a thing with them :P
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on June 10, 2017, 07:00:39 pm
You know, while I was thinking of a possible relation the 3 current bosses might have (reflecting on Reimu's dialogue), a thing came to mind:  They're all somewhat elusive/ignorable. 

Eternity's a fairy so most people simply disregard them, Nemuno is a mountain hag who often secludes herself so most people don't even know of her whereabouts, and Aunn tries doing her volunteer work while unnoticed. 

While I have no idea whatsoever what sort of connection to a youkai/plot point this all might make, the fact even the heroines mention a lack of a lead on the incident's resolution makes me wonder if this has something to do with it.

Plus, the game -is- called Hidden Star in Four Seasons, after all. 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on June 10, 2017, 09:57:43 pm
You know, while I was thinking of a possible relation the 3 current bosses might have (reflecting on Reimu's dialogue), a thing came to mind:  They're all somewhat elusive/ignorable. 

Eternity's a fairy so most people simply disregard them, Nemuno is a mountain hag who often secludes herself so most people don't even know of her whereabouts, and Aunn tries doing her volunteer work while unnoticed. 

While I have no idea whatsoever what sort of connection to a youkai/plot point this all might make, the fact even the heroines mention a lack of a lead on the incident's resolution makes me wonder if this has something to do with it.

Plus, the game -is- called Hidden Star in Four Seasons, after all.
My first reaction to reading this is... ninjas.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on June 11, 2017, 01:28:35 am
A bit late, but I think the 5th season could be a better fit for extra stage
Yes, you caught me redhanded sneaking speculation into the thread :3

You know, while I was thinking of a possible relation the 3 current bosses might have (reflecting on Reimu's dialogue), a thing came to mind:  They're all somewhat elusive/ignorable.
Good point. The very first thing I felt upon seeing the bosses was how amicable they are to the common people, which gives the whole demo the vibe of a neighborhood stroll. Swallowtails are everywhere in Japan; the mountain hag is a popular youkai, often depicted as a mother with her son Kintaro to symbolize motherhood; and you can see stone lions every time you walk by a shrine or Buddhist temple.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on June 15, 2017, 11:54:00 pm
Latest Horned Hermit chapter is a prologue to this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lebon14 on June 16, 2017, 01:12:19 am
Latest Horned Hermit chapter is a prologue to this game.

aaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
I want the translated chapter so bad now!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on June 20, 2017, 07:50:30 pm
Interestingly, the new chapter of Wild and Horned Hermit is, as mentioned a prologue to HSiFS.  What's more, another curious fact is that cuc and I mentioned earlier that the incident might deal with the Tanabata festival and how a plot involving Tanbata kind of happened in Book of Star Mythology, the fangame.  Interestingly enough, the glowing bamboo at the forest of the lost in WaHH's latest chapter also appeared in BoSM's 4th stage too. 


While I'm not well versed in japanese mythology and culture, is there any mention in it about glowing bamboo?   It's a surprisingly strange coincidence, after all.

Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: martelefort on June 20, 2017, 08:00:11 pm


While I'm not well versed in japanese mythology and culture, is there any mention in it about glowing bamboo?   It's a surprisingly strange coincidence, after all.




Well, in the tale of Kaguya, baby kaguya was found in a glowing bamboo, but, well, Kaguya was based of that already. .
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on June 20, 2017, 09:53:46 pm

Well, in the tale of Kaguya, baby kaguya was found in a glowing bamboo, but, well, Kaguya was based of that already. .

Mastermind the "adoptive parents" ? (lol, sorry i really want to say that). But the game not only taking place in Bambewb Forest of Lost right? it's all over the place.

Btw, it's funny how you put dot(.) after the /spoiler] pft lolol
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Alrysc on June 20, 2017, 10:55:31 pm
WaHH Chapter 40 - So bamboo flowers are blooming when it should only happen once every sixty years. Might as well bring up the sixty year cycle again. The three lights, the four seasons, and the five phases. I'm sticking to the idea of this being relevant. I guess all of nature must be affected.
Title: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on June 21, 2017, 02:07:00 am
Mokou chopping off one of those glowing bamboos with a bare-handed karate chop - which is even a clean cut - is what amazed me in that chapter...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on June 24, 2017, 10:49:01 pm
WaHH Chapter 40 - So bamboo flowers are blooming when it should only happen once every sixty years. Might as well bring up the sixty year cycle again. The three lights, the four seasons, and the five phases. I'm sticking to the idea of this being relevant. I guess all of nature must be affected.
Could Stage 5 take place in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost, then? If so, then Stage 6 would probably just take place in the sky. Alternatively, the BFotL could be the setting of the Extra stage. I doubt they'd mention an area in the prologue that has undergone a change without showing it in the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fumi on June 27, 2017, 12:48:38 am
Could Stage 5 take place in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost, then? If so, then Stage 6 would probably just take place in the sky. Alternatively, the BFotL could be the setting of the Extra stage. I doubt they'd mention an area in the prologue that has undergone a change without showing it in the game.

It's pretty much confirmed Stage 4 will be on the Forest of Magic, because so far we have visited the "home" places of the protagonists which have been affected by their respective season (Cirno-Summer-Random fields, Aya-Autumn-Youkai Mountain, Reimu-Spring-Hakurei Shrine, Marisa-Winter-Forest of Magic), which in the prologue as mentioned by Marisa it's winter, though, it is curious to see the Bamboo Forest in the manga right before this incident, that Glowing Bamboo is of course unatural and must play some role, idk probably pulling out a BoSM where the forest appeared or the so called fifth season.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drayen on June 28, 2017, 11:45:17 pm
Am I the only one.. Maybe I'm getting old but I swear there is SO much clutter in this game it makes it confusing for me sometimes. Especially on the spellcard where bullets are coming from top/left/right at the same time and theres just so many seasonal items everywhere.

I literally played imperishable night, the clutter is so much more tolerable there... And I was surprised at how easier the game was too... but thats probably because i played the stages on lunatic thousands of times back 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Quwanti on July 24, 2017, 03:23:15 pm
The cover image just got added to Melonbooks (https://www.melonbooks.co.jp/detail/detail.php?product_id=227497).

(http://i.imgur.com/jvwShSD.jpg)

There appear to be multiple characters on the image.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on July 24, 2017, 03:32:59 pm
Yay, the Prismriver Sisters are back.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on July 24, 2017, 03:46:59 pm
 Well that's new!  Either we're getting some weird Stage 6A/6B (maybe 6C?) like IN, or we'll have our first.  uh, triple, final boss battle in touhou history?

Curiously enough I'm surprised there's three people there since the game's, ya'kno, HSi--F--S
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: CyberAngel on July 24, 2017, 04:19:28 pm
/me slaps Linnah with a stack of th12,8 discs

Anyway, I see... a picture frame? Or an open window? Curious.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on July 24, 2017, 04:27:49 pm
/me slaps Linnah with a stack of th12,8 discs

Anyway, I see... a picture frame? Or an open window? Curious.

Oh gosh, Fairy wars completely went over my head.  Granted, I was thinking only about 6-staged games and didn't even consider it, hahahaha!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Suspicious person on July 24, 2017, 04:48:30 pm
That's quite the peculiar silhouette. Is that thing in the middle some kind of throne or something ? It's pretty hard to discern stuff, and the white spots and overall splashiness are certainly not doing any favors.

At any rate, I can totally see the newhus in this picture getting shipped among themselves or getting the family treatment in the future, haha.

... *impatiently checks calendar for C92*
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: dark36 on July 24, 2017, 04:54:29 pm
is the center girl holding something in her hand?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on July 24, 2017, 05:15:20 pm
Akiba Hobby's version is larger (http://ec.akbh.jp/upload/save_image/pics/2100000079636.jpg).

Sorry to rob you of the excitement of speculation, but...

An anonymous Japanese poster just casually googled "god, two people, accompany", and immediately hit on what looks to be the right image.
(http://wx3.sinaimg.cn/mw690/be8f9ff3gy1fhvg6isbanj20fw07twge.jpg)

The characters very neatly fit the description for Matara-jin (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%91%A9%E5%A4%9A%E7%BE%85%E7%A5%9E) - I'm linking Japanese wikipedia, because while a number of English pages on him exist, they don't seem to contain the info relevant to identifying the silhouette. You can google the god yourself :D .

This is a mysterious and relatively obscure Buddhist deity, the patron of a Buddhist sect and a Shinto shrine of the Hata clan. He is accompanied by two servants, Teireita and Nishita, both holding sasa (a bamboo shrub) in the left hand, myōga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myoga) ginger in the right hand. Together, the three symbolize three poisons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_poisons): greed, hatred, and delusion. The Big Dipper is a part of their image (http://www.kuniomi.gr.jp/geki/iwai/nikk06.gif).

This doesn't mean Matara-jin is the final answer on who they are, just he likely is an inspirations for their designs. If you look, you can find lots of opportunities for syncretism with Matara-jin, e.g. with Daikokuten (Shiva, but as one of Japan's Seven Lucky Gods), as the secretary of Yama, and being called "Myojin of Silla", which associates him with Korea. Yeah, his identity feels like whatever random thing his small number of worshipers wanted him to be.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: PapilLionesskort on July 24, 2017, 05:55:50 pm
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/265023039996035072/339101887951405057/1500914590707.png)
Nevertheless, have some concept art of how they might look like. (Apparently from /jp/)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Neovereign on July 24, 2017, 06:43:44 pm
The middle figure kind of seems like it could be Lily from the top. I mean, despite already being in the game she hasn't been an actual midboss yet, has she? Seems too farfetched though. I wanted to believe at least...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 24, 2017, 08:27:21 pm
IT'S HERE

This is getting interesting. If there are really three separate characters on the cover, there either might be

- different routes after stage 5 a la Imperishable Night
- a final boss fight consisting of three characters
- a possible Phantasm stage , if they're the bosses of the last stages (stage 6, EX, and PH)

All just pure speculation of course, would be totally rad if one of those turns out to be actually implemented (of which I think the first two are more likely).

Now I'm genuinely hyped for what exactly the plot in HSiFS will turn out to be.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on July 24, 2017, 11:47:28 pm
Another reference to Korean Mythology after Komano's etymology?
Does that mean we are going to have our first ever Korean 2hu?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on July 24, 2017, 11:52:07 pm
Comiket is August 11 or...?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on July 25, 2017, 12:38:28 am
snip

We should come to expect that ZUN is always going to pull something out of obscure, ancient NE Asian history and drop it into the games. Would be interesting if he were to do a panel discussion with some historians and just chat about some of the more fascinating and intriguing myths and legends for an hour or so.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: shockdude on July 25, 2017, 12:47:57 am
Sorry to rob you of the excitement of speculation, but...
lol. Is this a new record for deciphering a new game's character silhouette?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fluury on July 25, 2017, 12:50:07 am
31 Release, oof.

Other than that, interesting to see three characters.  As others have said could be multiple routes or a triple boss fight.

What can however be said is that the left and right character are associated with another, while the middle one seems to have no distinct features that associates them with, well, them.
I recall IN having Mokou on the cover aswell - maybe the middle one is just the stage 6 boss, while the two others are the extra stage bosses?

EDIT: Nevermind I'm completely sold on that 4chan post. For a bit I thought about the three poisons being paths for the characters (Marisa -> Greed, Reimu -> Hatred, Cirno -> Delusion) but then I forgot about Aya..
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Malik on July 25, 2017, 01:04:36 am
31 Release, oof.

Other than that, interesting to see three characters.  As others have said could be multiple routes or a triple boss fight.

What can however be said is that the left and right character are associated with another, while the middle one seems to have no distinct features that associates them with, well, them.
I recall IN having Mokou on the cover aswell - maybe the middle one is just the stage 6 boss, while the two others are the extra stage bosses?

EDIT: Nevermind I'm completely sold on that 4chan post. For a bit I thought about the three poisons being paths for the characters (Marisa -> Greed, Reimu -> Hatred, Cirno -> Delusion) but then I forgot about Aya..

That's the date for when it will be sold in MelonBrooks, we should still be getting Touhou 16 in three weeks.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Spectral Nexus on July 25, 2017, 01:14:45 am
Honestly, given the possible pretext of the 2 other characters being servants for one god/high figure, I honestly think it'll be less of a triple-boss fight and more of a boss fight with 2 humanoid familiars, similar to Miko's spellcard using Futo and Tojiko.

In regard to the possibility of having 3 options for Stage 6, it would be a little tedious I feel, and though it'd be cool for sure, I don't know if it's too probable, considering Imperishable Night already exists, in which that feature was its unique strongpoint. That's just a hunch though, so feel free to prove me wrong~

Another thing is that the 2 'servant' characters on the right and left have similar headgear and similar poses judging by the silhouette, which definitely establishes a strong connection between them, and so I doubt those 2 would be separate bosses. It also wouldn't make much sense for them to be on the front cover if they weren't affiliated with the final boss -- even Seija wasn't on the cover for DDC, despite being the true culprit of the incident. Therefore, I believe that the 2 'servant's also share a connection to the central figure, and will probably be used in her fight as familiars, possibly like Futo and Tojiko, or possibly like Yoshika to Seiga.

Just my two cents, though. :b

inb4 for the final spellcard they fuse Steven Univer- I mean, Tarumi-style hehe
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on July 25, 2017, 03:02:49 am
So is the game coming out on 11 or 31 of August?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on July 25, 2017, 03:26:36 am
It'll be sold at C92 on the 11th (Day 1). The game will reach shops on the 31st. This is pretty standard.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Malik on July 25, 2017, 04:06:54 am
(http://i.imgur.com/W9XDmJq.png)

Here's and outline merged with the actual cover. I feel like we're gonna get a double boss fight. Maybe ZUN is doing something entirely new.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on July 25, 2017, 04:19:49 am
Given the sort of possible idea as to who these three characters are, as Cuc said, I am very certain that the Teireita and Nishita characters are to be the stage 5 bosses, given the norm of the direct servants of the stage 6 boss always being stage 5 bosses. I can assume, however, that they will play a role midway through the Matara-jin character's fight.

Curiously enough I'm surprised there's three people there since the game's, ya'kno, HSi--F--S

I am actually sort of intrigued by this, since maybe, just maybe, considering the existence of these three characters on the cover, and the idea of the Extra boss, I would assume that they (Teireita and Nishita as the S5 bosses, Matara-jin being the S6 boss, and the aforementioned Extra boss) could have some sort of individual representation of each season.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Malik on July 25, 2017, 04:26:48 am
Given the sort of possible idea as to who these three characters are, as Cuc said, I am very certain that the Teireita and Nishita characters are to be the stage 5 bosses, given the norm of the direct servants of the stage 6 boss always being stage 5 bosses. I can assume, however, that they will play a role midway through the Matara-jin character's fight.

I am actually sort of intrigued by this, since maybe, just maybe, considering the existence of these three characters on the cover, and the idea of the Extra boss, I would assume that they (Teireita and Nishita as the S5 bosses, Matara-jin being the S6 boss, and the aforementioned Extra boss) could have some sort of individual representation of each season.
I'm also pretty certain the characters have more to do with the "Hidden Star" part rather than the four seasons. I'd bet stage 4 would end the focus on the seasons and we'd find out more about the hidden star from stage 5 and onwards.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on July 25, 2017, 04:39:02 am
Hope all three of them are exclusive to stage 6.  That way, there will be tons of new characters!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Malik on July 25, 2017, 05:06:10 am
Hope all three of them are exclusive to stage 6.  That way, there will be tons of new characters!
That would be awesome. And it's not entirely a weird thought either considering the theories. And Seija + Hecatia both had a bunch to do with the final boss without appearing on the silhouette yet this one we do have three. So I wonder if it's "Any boss on stage 6" ill be on the silhouette.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: PapilLionesskort on July 25, 2017, 11:17:21 am
Now I'm genuinely hyped for what exactly the plot in HSiFS will turn out to be.
The plot we know so far is that the seasons are completely out of wack and have come to Gensokyo all at the same time. Somewhere in Gensokyo it's winter, another place it's summer, and another it's autumn. As a result of this incident, fairies have also become substantially more powerful, hence why Cirno is a playable character here. :3
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 25, 2017, 12:51:48 pm
The plot we know so far is that the seasons are completely out of wack and have come to Gensokyo all at the same time. Somewhere in Gensokyo it's winter, another place it's summer, and another it's autumn. As a result of this incident, fairies have also become substantially more powerful, hence why Cirno is a playable character here. :3
I'm aware of that already, but thanks nonetheless. I actually meant it in a way of who could've caused all of this and through what motive. It's the first time ZUN's put three silhouettes on the cover ever, making the anticipation to the full release more exciting than before.

Speaking about the full release, I wonder whether he'll put up a web trial soon.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Kurzov on July 25, 2017, 01:19:27 pm
Maybe ZUN's doing the "extra mode of the extra mode" boss system for this game, a la Phantasm in PCB, with the final boss, extra boss, and second extra boss on the cover. That's just my theory, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Marron on July 25, 2017, 01:45:03 pm
Well that's new. Totally unusual to see three shadow. The middle one seems to represents some sort of sun. The left one seems to have a weird dress. That's all I can say.
Anyway three shadows ? Like, wtf ? I don't think Zun would include three roads. I can't think of anything. Maybe three final bosses yes. That makes you wonder who'll be the extra boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Nyxnyx on July 25, 2017, 04:57:30 pm
At which circle will the game be sold? Zun hasn't give out any information about where will his circle be in the comiket, at least as far as i know. Will it be sold on one of those "official" booths?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Marron on July 25, 2017, 05:11:58 pm
Btw, wanted to say....the title is HSiFS, right. But the shade of the middle boss seems to represent a sun though.... so will there be a "star" boss in this game, if that is so, could it be the extra boss ?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Spotty Len on July 25, 2017, 05:13:18 pm
At which circle will the game be sold? Zun hasn't give out any information about where will his circle be in the comiket, at least as far as i know. Will it be sold on one of those "official" booths?
Team Shanghai Alice is ZUN's circle.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: martelefort on July 25, 2017, 05:40:39 pm
Btw, wanted to say....the title is HSiFS, right. But the shade of the middle boss seems to represent a sun though.... so will there be a "star" boss in this game, if that is so, could it be the extra boss ?

Isn't the Sun our solar system's star ?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Marron on July 25, 2017, 05:41:27 pm
Yeah that's what I thought but then....why not using "Hidden sun" in that case ?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: dass on July 25, 2017, 06:17:09 pm
Because that's not as cool or cryptic.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Marron on July 25, 2017, 07:28:35 pm
I'm gonna wait for the full version, we'll get more answers when the game'll come out anyway.

But that 3 bosses thing smells fishy.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: PK on July 26, 2017, 11:48:19 am
Maybe there are 3 characters as final bosses because there are 3 out-of-season seasons going on, and each one alone isn't strong enough outside their season (think of Letty, and likely Lily). The EX boss could be the Summer god/youkai. Dunno how this has something to do with Matara-jin, or a hidden star.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on July 26, 2017, 03:36:26 pm
Highest resolution I've found.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFprmMKW0AAwemV.jpg:orig)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Helepolis on July 26, 2017, 04:05:47 pm
There is a huge wheel or something big behind the boss. It goes all around.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on July 26, 2017, 04:14:22 pm
I honestly love the Touhou Rorschach Test we play with every time a new cover comes out.

Personally, I'm seeing an open two-pane window there. Or possibly double doors.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Kurzov on July 26, 2017, 05:38:16 pm
I honestly love the Touhou Rorschach Test we play with every time a new cover comes out.

Personally, I'm seeing an open two-pane window there. Or possibly double doors.

Yes, very fun.
The way the hair is shown on the boss on the far left seems to resemble the way that Shinki's hair was always shown. Just something that I noticed...
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 26, 2017, 05:41:51 pm
There is a huge wheel or something big behind the boss. It goes all around.
I immediately began thinking about that circular motive on the opening screen. Perhaps they're the same?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Badz on July 26, 2017, 06:33:52 pm
I swear the rightmost character actually has her left arm raised and is holding something. Am I going mad?
Whatever this is, I really have no idea what to make out of it. The two side characters assisting the center one or them being a separate encounter (or both of these options at once) seem about equally plausible.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Helepolis on July 26, 2017, 08:37:50 pm
I immediately began thinking about that circular motive on the opening screen. Perhaps they're the same?
Yup, they are exactly the same. It is the loading screen window/circle thingi indeed. The size even matches without resizing if I put them together in Photoshop.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Spectral Nexus on July 26, 2017, 08:44:33 pm
There is a huge wheel or something big behind the boss. It goes all around.
It's definitely visible, however I believe it may not be related to the silhouette, and is moreso a background graphic, considering the wheel does seem to overlap the silhouette rather than merging with it -- you can see it more clearly by looking at the two side characters. This most likely suggests that the two graphics are separate rather than being one and the same, as they have different opacities.

But the relation to the loading screen graphic is very interesting indeed.

EDIT: On second thought, I may have misinterpreted the original comment, as you don't explicitly say that you think the wheel sigil is part of the boss graphic itself. My apologies there
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on July 27, 2017, 12:15:17 am
I swear the rightmost character actually has her left arm raised and is holding something. Am I going mad?
Whatever this is, I really have no idea what to make out of it. The two side characters assisting the center one or them being a separate encounter (or both of these options at once) seem about equally plausible.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks of that!  It looks kind of like she's holding a sheathed sword's handle on her back. 
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on July 27, 2017, 12:27:38 am
I reckon it's probably the aforementioned bamboo shrub described in cuc's post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1354196.html#msg1354196).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: dass on July 27, 2017, 12:33:32 am
With Lily coming back for spring, do you think it's possible that Letty comes back as the stage 4 midboss? (Or boss!) She was fought in the Forest of Magic in PCB, so I don't think it's impossible that this is the case.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 27, 2017, 12:46:59 am
Yeah, she definitely would fit the theme of the upcoming winter stage, but knowing ZUN, she'll rather be a midboss and the main boss of that stage is most likely a new character.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on July 27, 2017, 02:33:04 am
I'd wager that no, Letty won't come back, but it's certainly possible. We didn't get the Akis in the Autumn stage so it's not like ZUN's going out of his way to include the season youkai. Plus Lily's already a pretty recurring character, and since she's a simple minded fairy who doesn't talk it seems like it's pretty easy to just throw her in.

Though it's not impossible or even that unlikely. I'd just guess no.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on July 27, 2017, 03:35:10 am
Brief summary of some more random info on Matara-jin - again, I'm not saying they have to figure in Touhou 16 at all, but it breaks down what his deal is:

Origin:
Ennin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ennin) was one of the important Buddhist monks who studied at Tang China. During his voyage back to Japan, he heard Matara-jin calling out to him. His sect would establish Matara-jin as the patron of 常行三昧堂 (JP: Jōgyō-zanmai-dō) - a hall for mystic training, and 玄旨帰命 (JP: Genshi Kimyō) - a Tantric rite of initiation. All in all, he was supposed to be a hidden god not shown to the public.

As patron of the performing arts:
This also makes him the patron of ushirodo, the space at the rear of the temple complex. Among other purposes, the ushirodo was used for Noh and related theatrical performances. This should be why Matara-jin became a patron of the performing arts associated with the Hata clan.

Connection with Silla Korea:
Ennin frequently associated with and learned from monk scholars of Silla during his stay in China, especially when at 赤山法華院 (CN: Chishan Fahua-yuan), a temple in today's Shandong Province founded by a Silla general. In his true nature, Matara-jin might simply be adopted from their local worship.

Explanaining his role as Yama's secretary:
Said local god is often explained to be 泰山府君 (CN: Taishan Fujun; JP: Taizan Fukun), god of Mount Taishan in Shandong, one of the most important mountains in Chinese culture. The notion of this god appeared around 200 CE under the influence of Buddhism, as patron of the boundary between the living and the dead. The god was highly popular with rich Taoist and folk lore appearances, and played an important role in the wizardry of Abe no Seimei.

(Mount Tai and Taishan Fujun also have a strong connection with the Big Dipper.)

As a merger of Daikokuten and Dakini (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakini), hermaphrodite, god of eroticism, etc.:
The Genshi Kimyō rite would absorb increasingly more elements of Tantric eroticism, leading to its banning as an evil cult in mid-Edo era, and the burning of its books.


EDIT:
By the way, I forgot about mentioning the biggest connection. It is common Chinese lore that the direction of the Big Dipper's handle indicates the four seasons. In spring it points east, in summer south, and so on. This is something you might be taught in elementary schools.


EDIT2:
I also haven't reported on July 14's Nikenme Radio stream. In short:

- ZUN couldn't guarantee the downloadable demo be released at the usual time. This is why we haven't seen the demo.
- The second half of HSiFS will betray your expectation. It will make you feel uneasy, maybe creep you out. You will see it from the artwork of the fourth boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on July 27, 2017, 07:28:41 am

- The second half of HSiFS will betray your expectation. It will make you feel uneasy, maybe creep you out. You will see it from the artwork of the fourth boss.

Yeesh, so much for a game he said it wouldn't have too many twists, hahaha.  I'm curious about what kind of uneasy youkai he could be talking about.  Since it's more or less guaranteed it'd be in the forest of magic, at night, and during winter, there's quite a handful of scary looking youkai that would fit the bill.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fulisha of Light on July 27, 2017, 07:35:56 am
- The second half of HSiFS will betray your expectation. It will make you feel uneasy, maybe creep you out. You will see it from the artwork of the fourth boss.

inb4 he adds a male character to the game  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on July 27, 2017, 08:42:46 am
On the other hand, he also said the Reisen Extra will anger us, and it did—by being a glorified ad for the next fighting game lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 27, 2017, 09:18:45 am
To be fair, Nemuno already had creeped me out decently on the first encounter, but if ZUN himself says that the fourth boss is gonna be creepy, oh boy, gotta brace myself for the next stage.

I feel like that the twist in HSiFS' plot is gonna be good deal greater than in LoLK. Seeing what ZUN said according to cuc's post, I don't think that this game will turn out to be that light-hearted at all :V

Still looking forward to it though, especially the potential triple final boss fight.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on July 27, 2017, 10:26:19 am
I can hardly say I'm surprised given how serious the music sounded...
That said, I wonder how the difficulty will turn out to be like.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Spectral Nexus on July 27, 2017, 11:07:09 am
I just hope the fanbase will be more accepting to whatever it is.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Kilgamayan on July 27, 2017, 11:39:05 am
I like the amount of speculation surrounding the idea of a three-person final boss fight as if we didn't already get one in 12.8 (and, to a lesser extent, 13).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on July 27, 2017, 12:57:14 pm
I like the amount of speculation surrounding the idea of a three-person final boss fight as if we didn't already get one in 12.8 (and, to a lesser extent, 13).
The difference is that the two games you mentioned are a trio of bosses that appeared in previous stages, whereas this one is implied that all three bosses won't show up until the final battle.

As for the stage 4 boss comment, as long as she's not based on any monster/demon/ghost that has relations to viscus (internal organs), I'm cool with it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Helepolis on July 27, 2017, 12:59:23 pm
Except there is no implication but only assumption based on a front cover. It remains speculation no matter how you look at it.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on July 27, 2017, 01:01:17 pm
Except there is no implication but only assumption based on a front cover. It remains speculation no matter how you look at it.
It's the first time something like this happened.  ZUN never squeezed bosses from multiple stages onto the cover before, barring the PC-98 ones.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Helepolis on July 27, 2017, 01:05:33 pm
I understand and agree with ZUN surprising us by displaying multiple silhouettes. That is a fact and definitely something new based on his last releases. However, some people are jumping the gun speculating about them being final bosses together. Of course nothing wrong with hopes and wishes. But it won't be anything surprising, as Ten Desires had it already. Even if they were from previous stages.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: cuc on July 27, 2017, 01:33:00 pm
It's the first time something like this happened.  ZUN never squeezed bosses from multiple stages onto the cover before, barring the PC-98 ones.
Mokou was featured on the IN cover. I'm not pulling your leg, you can find her silhouette inside the moon.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on July 27, 2017, 01:35:05 pm
Mokou was featured on the IN cover. I'm not pulling your leg, you can find her silhouette inside the moon.
She is, however, very small compared to Kaguya, whereas all three on this game's cover are equally big.  It's as if they are equally important.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tengukami on July 27, 2017, 01:46:08 pm
I, for one, welcome having my expectations betrayed and being creeped out by a Touhou game.

So if the trio is the final boss, and the artwork of the 4th boss is going to be a reflection of the latter half of the game, then I suspect a variety of extreme weather conditions: high winds, hail, lightning, torrential rain and so forth. The fourth boss will be some kind of extreme weather spirit, coming at you with weather conditions that reflect whatever secondary skill you chose. Then in Stage 5 you'll have to deal with the companions of Matara-jin, and then in Stage 6 you'll deal with all three of them.

That, or Stage 4 will have Alex Jones as the boss, who screams at you and hurls gay frogs at you.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Suwako Moriya on July 27, 2017, 01:55:38 pm
gay frogs

You rang?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Malik on July 27, 2017, 02:22:52 pm
I'm jumpin up n down now. all of this new speculation has got me hyped.
(also for those living in america and Canada, expect the new game on the 10th not the 11th)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Drake on July 27, 2017, 03:24:28 pm
For those living in the Americas I'd hope they're either in Japan at the time or are willing to wait for the mail!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Tiamat on July 27, 2017, 03:54:01 pm
But it won't be anything surprising, as Ten Desires had it already. Even if they were from previous stages.

Even if it isn't surprising, it might at least be better utilized than Ten Desire's version of it.  For Ten Desires, it was just one single spell card (and a rather simplistic one) where IIRC Miko herself didn't even DO ANYTHING whatsoever (which was funny and made even funnier by the dialogue but makes the battle itself more like a battle against two turrets and one hit box than a battle against three bosses).

If the final battle even has anything remotely to do with three different characters, odds are pretty good it'll top what Ten Desires did if only by stint of a low bar being set.

(that's talking about if they're just basically summoned familiars of course a la Ten Desires.  ZUN already did an actual tri-boss fight with Fairy Wars as pointed out previously)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 27, 2017, 04:16:01 pm
She is, however, very small compared to Kaguya, whereas all three on this game's cover are equally big.  It's as if they are equally important.
Plus, the two silhouettes flanking the middle one both have that distinct feature on their heads, which can also be seen on the picture with Matara-jin and his both servants that cuc's posted a couple of pages back, making me doubt that they'll be main bosses by themselves. I reckon that one of them could already appear on stage 4/5 and the other one on stage 5/6 as midbosses and then appear altogether with the actual final boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: IzanathosIV on July 27, 2017, 10:38:32 pm
Plus, the two silhouettes flanking the middle one both have that distinct feature on their heads, which can also be seen on the picture with Matara-jin and his both servants that cuc's posted a couple of pages back, making me doubt that they'll be main bosses by themselves. I reckon that one of them could already appear on stage 4/5 and the other one on stage 5/6 as midbosses and then appear altogether with the actual final boss.

Other posiblility is to have 2 midbosses on stage 6, that would be cool, and then you could face all three of them as the final boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 28, 2017, 10:18:17 am
Or that.
A double midboss for the final stage would certainly be unique too, since it's never happened before either. However, I think it'd be a tad more likely that they'd appear earlier trying to halt the heroines' progress, and because they're being inevitably defeated while fighting on their own, they'll try to fight the heroines together with their master/the final boss in the end.

Let's wait and see. There are quite a number of possibilities.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on July 28, 2017, 10:37:12 am
Or that.
A double midboss
Not final stage, but happened already in DDC's extra stage, the Tsukumo Sisters.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on July 28, 2017, 03:55:21 pm
So... *cough* I have a theory about the "creepy stage 4 boss." Remember how people were confused about Yuki's name meaning snow, despite using fire attacks? Well, if you didn't already know, it was a reference to a (probably) Buddhist hell where the wind is so cold that your skin cracks and bleeds. Fun stuff, I know.

Considering the fact that Stage 4 will be a snow stage, I'm wondering if ZUN will draw from his PC-98 routes and have a spiritual successor to Yuki. As in, some hell monster in the vein of Clownpiece that can make really cold wind or something.

Just please, no more lasers.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: ToyoRai on July 28, 2017, 04:40:15 pm
The second half of HSiFS will betray your expectation.

There is no winter stage.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Kirin no Sora on July 28, 2017, 04:59:34 pm
If an "extreme weather spirit" is an idea, why not a Letty that has been affected by the weather in a similar vein to Cirno? Maybe she's infused with the winter that the forest of magic now has, and is actually willing to put more effort into fighting you. Also, she'll look different, and that's what will probably creep us out. Is a yuki-onna a youkai or a ghost? If a yuki-onna can be considered a ghost, then we could see a scarier side to Letty...

There is no winter stage.

That... would be a betrayal of expectations. Maybe the thawed out Forest of Magic will be the Extra stage where a kinoko youkai will wake and despite haven woken up, serves as the EX Boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on July 28, 2017, 05:07:46 pm
If a yuki-onna can be considered a ghost, then we could see a scarier side to Letty...
So wait, the incident causers will have straight up killed Letty? Yeah, that would definitely count as unsettling.

I'm still not too worried about the latter half of HSiFS being 2spooky5me. The Stage 1 theme is just way, way too upbeat for a complete 180 into spoopsville. After all, the Stage 1 theme is always meant to set the mood for the rest of the game. I think that the Spook(TM) will be specific to the Stage 4 boss, and that the end-game will betray our expectation in another way. By perhaps not being about the Buddhist god that everyone is expecting? (Lol, not likely.)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: PK on July 28, 2017, 05:27:36 pm
Remember that none of the bosses until now are directly related to the seasons (only Lily and she's a midboss). Also, "hidden star" makes me think about an eclipse, but since there is no eclipse ongoing in the main incident, maybe it's gonna be in the extra stage backstory.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TrueShadow on July 28, 2017, 05:57:14 pm
Wait, maybe ZUN is trying to subvert our expectations...BY BRINGING MIMA BACK!! After all, nobody has any hope of her returning anymore!
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 28, 2017, 06:08:22 pm
It could be likely that actually no boss in this game will directly have anything to do with seasons, but rather there will be one or multiple characters whose powers have influence on the seasons. I'm going as far as thinking about star constellations that appear on the night sky depending on the season, and wondered whether the "Hidden Star" could mean an unknown constellation that nobody's seen before and someone's using its power for whatever reason, causing the seasons and fairies to go bonkers and the calm, reclusive youkai to be more active than ever.

I'm somehow getting BoSM vibes right now, mixed with DDC.


The star constellations part might not have made much sense, but it's just random speculation now so whatevs :V



Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TresserT on July 28, 2017, 06:38:20 pm
I think cuc pretty much explained the hidden star part. Matara-jin is a "secret god", who's basically worshipped by their cult and not super well known outside of them. They're also associated with the big dipper. Seems like a pretty clear explanation for "hidden star". If what cuc said is true, it's even got a direct explanation for the "four seasons" part- the direction the big dipper's tail points in correlates to the four seasons.

I'm not trying to act like I know what I'm talking about, I'm just repeating what I heard because it seems like it got glossed over.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: HistoryoftheMoon on July 28, 2017, 06:43:56 pm
the direction the big dipper's tail points in correlates to the four seasons.
Hmm... then perhaps the climax will take place somewhere between the Forest of Magic, Hakurei Shrine, Youkai Mountain, and... uh... the generic forest area where Stage 1 takes place.

As far as my knowledge of Gensokyo geography goes, this is probably either the Misty Lake or Human Village, neither of which are prime spots for incident causers... I'm probably thinking too far into this.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: TrueShadow on July 28, 2017, 07:00:23 pm
Wait, "hidden star" and the Big Dipper. I'm getting Devil Survivor 2 flashback here....

For those who don't know, The Big Dipper constellation is made up of 7 main stars:
- Dubhe
- Merak
- Phecda
- Megrez
- Alioth
- Mizar
- Alkaid

However, near Mizar there is another star, Alcor, which is fainter and usually hidden by Mizar's light. Could the "Hidden Star" be referring to Alcor?

Also, this piece from Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizar_and_Alcor
Quote
In Japanese mythology, Alcor is known as the lifespan star or "jumyouboshi" (寿命星) as it was believed that one who could not see this star would pass away by year's end. The Japanese manga Fist of the North Star used this legend as a model for its death-omen star (死兆星), in which it was said that people who saw the star would die later in the year.
Could this be important?
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 28, 2017, 07:00:50 pm
the direction the big dipper's tail points in correlates to the four seasons.
Damn, I apparently didn't have understood it that way. Got riled up by the general speculations a bit so I proceeded to toss in some far-fetched ideas.

Maybe I should just wait and see how it'll turn out.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: game2011 on July 28, 2017, 11:10:15 pm
More than likely fake:
http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1501253448664.png
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Fluury on July 29, 2017, 12:15:59 am
More than likely fake:
http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1501253448664.png

Very much so fake. ZUN's drawings aren't the finest but even he wouldn't draw a hand the size of what appears to be a roach.

(https://my.mixtape.moe/lkvnnk.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: pokopo708 on July 29, 2017, 01:29:18 am
A reverse image search of the supposedly leaked screenshot leads to this (https://twitter.com/mem8120/status/865942148595597313) tweet, posted on May 20th 2017. The person who tweeted the screenshots also posted the "new" character's art two days later, as seen here (https://twitter.com/mem8120/status/866698864899768320). So yeah... it's fake.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: the old guy on July 29, 2017, 04:05:53 am
It looks like an ms paint drawing anyways.
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Shizzo on July 29, 2017, 05:24:16 am
Not only that but by the position the screen is at and the fact her portrait is showing, if this was a legit screenshot her sprite would definitely have appeared too (even if only the lower part).
Title: Re: Touhou 16 「東方天空璋(とうほうてんくうしょう) ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」Trial 0.01a Release
Post by: Jimmy on July 29, 2017, 09:14:37 am
Very much so fake. ZUN's drawings aren't the finest but even he wouldn't draw a hand the size of what appears to be a roach.
(https://my.mixtape.moe/lkvnnk.png)