Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Front Page Headlines => Topic started by: cuc on December 11, 2016, 11:03:30 am

Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on December 11, 2016, 11:03:30 am

<Moriya> Mod Note: Please do not use the term "loli" in regards to anyone in this game. Thanks!

For tonight's Play,Doujin! Year-End Party stream, a new Twilight Frontier PC fighting game has been announced: Touhou Hyouibana (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzY-rrEVIAAFRCr.jpg:small)

http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/ (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/)

Basic information (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=20471.msg1302923#msg1302923)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Spotty Len on December 11, 2016, 11:12:43 am
And then they'll make PS4-exclusive stuff again?

Well, I'm glad more is coming, I just hope the title doesn't mislead me in thinking a certain favorite character of mine will be in this time around.

(Also please no RNG come on it's not so hard Tasofro.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ☆ Kana ☆ on December 11, 2016, 11:13:31 am
Uhhh...?!  :o

W-well...can't say I expected that announcement, but a very pleasant surprise nonetheless~! ^w^
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 11, 2016, 11:14:41 am
Never expected another fighter so fast, I'm so hyped for this!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on December 11, 2016, 11:17:49 am
ZUN kan't into Western philosophy.

Also Tasofro IP block watch: it's down again. Following the current pattern, we should expect it to go up when the demo is released.

I'm actually fine if Tasofro or their ISP (whoever's responsible) simply maintains a block using the usual blacklists that cover most of China, since large-scale hacker attacks launched from Chinese IPs are a legitimate problem. The scope of the block that also includes Southeast Asia, and now this dance are plain weird.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Quwanti on December 11, 2016, 11:19:31 am
I was expecting them to fully commit to ULiL PS4 for a while.

Well, glad to hear about a new fighter!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 11, 2016, 11:20:43 am
How long did it take for us to learn what 14.5 is?  We can have an estimated time frame for this through that one.

EDIT: Is it really confirmed to be a new fighter?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 11, 2016, 11:22:09 am
So weird for another fighting game to be announced like that. Not really complaining, though.

Hopefully Junko is playable.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ☆ Kana ☆ on December 11, 2016, 11:24:05 am
EDIT: Is it really confirmed to be a new fighter?

I don't think it's been confirmed yet whether it's fighter or not, but given the track record of Tasofro/ZUN collabs, it's a pretty safe bet by this point.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Hrusa on December 11, 2016, 11:27:26 am
Time for another round of "Mima is coming back"
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 11, 2016, 11:29:42 am
While I'm glad we're getting more, I wish it was a bullet hell spin-off instead of yet-another-Tasofro-fighter.

A new Phantasmagoria-style game would be nice, or something entirely new.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 11, 2016, 11:33:47 am
I would sort of want to see a side-scroller shoot-'em-up from tasofro what use the movement/grazing style from the fighting games, but how good it would be in execution I don't know.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 11, 2016, 12:28:22 pm
Wow really, this soon?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on December 11, 2016, 12:32:56 pm
Ummmmm... wow.

It's been, what, 3 days since the release of ULiL on PS4? That's pretty cold of Tasofro to people who bought it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 11, 2016, 12:33:53 pm
Ummmmm... wow.

It's been, what, 3 days since the release of ULiL on PS4? That's pretty cold of Tasofro to people who bought it.
It probably won't come out until months later, so it's not a big deal.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gray21oh on December 11, 2016, 01:20:38 pm
Well that was pretty fast. Any more faster like actual character reveals and an immediate demo and I'd think Tasofro is ready to jump ship right after ULiL on PS4. Still pretty cool to see, I really hope there'll be more people that'll approach this one.

If anything ULiL PS4 pretty much confirmed this'll be a team fighter based on the ending of Reisen's Extra scenario.

Also I'm hearing rumours there'll be sexual themes in the story of this one so that sounds... Interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on December 11, 2016, 01:21:04 pm
sup y'all, time for a crazy fan theory

So let's assume this game is leading off the plot hook from ULiL, where people are getting teleported around and seemingly possessed at random.

First thought - teleportation? That's actually something we've seen before - namely, one of Komachi's specials in SWR/Soku. (https://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Onozuka_Komachi/Skill_Cards#Ritual_of_Ecstasy)

To play into this theory more, note the game's title, and the mention of flowers. What was the plot of the game Komachi was introduced in again?

So my guess is that this has something to do with Higan/the dead. Maybe even another Phantasmagoria style game?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: monhan on December 11, 2016, 01:23:58 pm
It probably won't come out until months later, so it's not a big deal.
In fact, it may motivate some players to actually buy the PS4 ULiL to experience the Extra story that ties to the new game. If they didn't just read it on the internet.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 11, 2016, 01:24:48 pm
sup y'all, time for a crazy fan theory

So let's assume this game is leading off the plot hook from ULiL, where people are getting teleported around and seemingly possessed at random.

First thought - teleportation? That's actually something we've seen before - namely, one of Komachi's specials in SWR/Soku. (https://hisouten.koumakan.jp/wiki/Onozuka_Komachi/Skill_Cards#Ritual_of_Ecstasy)

To play into this theory more, note the game's title, and the mention of flowers. What was the plot of the game Komachi was introduced in again?

So my guess is that this has something to do with Higan/the dead. Maybe even another Phantasmagoria style game?

I don't think Komachi will necessarily have anything to do with the game.  Remember Mima and Ten Desires?

And 2ch is claiming that ZUN said this game's theme is about "sexualization." Doubt that...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 11, 2016, 01:37:35 pm

Also I'm hearing rumours there'll be sexual themes in the story of this one so that sounds... Interesting.

Wat?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 11, 2016, 01:38:07 pm
Keep in mind ZUN has said several times he finds danmaku 'erotic'.
"All those curves".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nikkanoffun on December 11, 2016, 01:43:53 pm
Now I understand correctly? That "The game will presumably continue the storyline started in ULiL PS4." means that the game will continue storyline "Reisen", which was only on the PS4, so 15.5 will also be released on the PS4, and to this point we get 2 different storylines?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on December 11, 2016, 01:44:11 pm
The "erotic" talk you are hearing about is just a twitter joke, 'coz taking over another's body is considered inherently erotic. What ZUN actually did tonight is calling Fushigi no Gensokyo/Touhou Genso Wanderer "erotic."

Also some other jokes made by ZUN before: "Touhou is forbidden to anyone below 24." "If I keep saying 'danmaku are erotic' like that, there might be people who want to censor them. So I should write it down clearly: 'all danmaku in this game are 18 years or older.'"

Translation of backstory:

Quote
A strange phenomenon called "Perfect Possession" is taking place.
A phenomenon where one is taken over by a completely different person, not only in mind, but also in body.
But worry not: Reimu is already on her way to investigate the cause behind its occurrence.

"The strongest two have joined forces."
"Something bad might be in store for us humans."
"An opponent who cannot be bested by anybody alone?"
Ludicrous rumors are circulating, seemingly out of the fear in human villagers' hearts.

The so-called "Urban Legend Incidents," yet to be resolved, have bestowed unsubstantiatable rumors with a tendency to take on concrete forms.
And this time, the Perfect Possession is obviously yet another Urban Legend Incident.

This story is about those who keep watch on Perfect Possession, those who exploit it, those unwittingly dragged into it, and those working to expose the threat behind it...
Those who have made the error of seeing themselves as the strongest two. This is their bittersweet story.

Information:
- ZUN only decided on the title three days ago
- Continuation of the Occult system
- A standalone game with all ULiL characters plus new characters
- No demo for this Winter Comiket
- Unabara said they also wished to port it to PS4, but this is still undecided
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on December 11, 2016, 01:48:53 pm
Now I understand correctly? That "The game will presumably continue the storyline started in ULiL PS4." means that the game will continue storyline "Reisen", which was only on the PS4, so 15.5 will also be released on the PS4, and to this point we get 2 different storylines?
More properly, the Reisen storyline was a set-up for 15.5. It is not especially essential for understanding what's going on.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Quwanti on December 11, 2016, 02:10:25 pm
So since it is reusing the occult system, I wonder if you need ULiL to be able to play all the characters, like with Hisoutensoku and Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, as I don't believe all the characters will be relevant.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on December 11, 2016, 02:15:53 pm
Since the title contains 依, it is reasonable to expect Yorihime (依姫) this time. In fact, the name of Tamayorihime, the dragon princess/priestess-goddess she is based on, means "the Noblewoman (hime) Possessed (yori) by Spirits (tama)." Being a vessel for spirits is exactly the goddess' specialty, and consequently Yorihime's.

But we are talking Touhou here. If you expect Yorihime, an all-new character may be what you get.
So since it is reusing the occult system, I wonder if you need ULiL to be able to play all the characters, like with Hisoutensoku and Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, as I don't believe all the characters will be relevant.
No, ULiL is not needed.

Also the ULiL PS4 story specially stated that all users of Occult Balls are vulnerable to the effect.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MrDanmakuFellow on December 11, 2016, 02:19:16 pm
Time for another round of "Mima is coming back"
Bruh hahaha
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on December 11, 2016, 02:25:15 pm
Maybe even another Phantasmagoria style game?
As much as I want another Phantasmagoria game this one doesn't seem to be a likely candidate. Maybe Touhou 16?

Since the title contains 依, it is reasonable to expect Yorihime (依姫) this time.
I'd be down for that. Remember everyone claiming that the Watatsuki Sisters would be in LoLK?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on December 11, 2016, 02:48:31 pm
So since it is reusing the occult system, I wonder if you need ULiL to be able to play all the characters, like with Hisoutensoku and Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, as I don't believe all the characters will be relevant.
Also by having two-character teams, the number of story campaigns can be immediately cut down by half.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 11, 2016, 02:54:46 pm
So when ZUN said he had a new game in the works, is it safe to assume this is what he was talking about? Or should we expect another announcement sometime this month?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gray21oh on December 11, 2016, 02:57:34 pm
The "erotic" talk you are hearing about is just a twitter joke, 'coz taking over another's body is considered inherently erotic. What ZUN actually did tonight is calling Fushigi no Gensokyo/Touhou Genso Wanderer "erotic."

Also some other jokes made by ZUN before: "Touhou is forbidden to anyone below 24." "If I keep saying 'danmaku are erotic' like that, there might be people who want to censor them. So I should write it down clearly: 'all danmaku in this game are 18 years or older.'"

Okay that clears up a whole bunch for me. I might've made a joke with an overestimation so best I try to clear that up.

Since the title contains 依, it is reasonable to expect Yorihime (依姫) this time. In fact, the name of Tamayorihime, the priestess-goddess she is based on, means "the Noblewoman (hime) Possessed (yori) by Spirits (tama)." Being a vessel for spirits is exactly the goddess' specialty, and consequently Yorihime's.

But we are talking Touhou here. If you expect Yorihime, an all-new character may be what you get.No, ULiL is not needed.

Why must you do this to me?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 11, 2016, 03:03:28 pm
Considering how this "perfect possession" thing works and that it's central to the plot, could we possibly see something akin to Guilty Gear X Advance's "roman tagging"?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 11, 2016, 03:03:57 pm
So when ZUN said he had a new game in the works, is it safe to assume this is what he was talking about? Or should we expect another announcement sometime this month?

If he's working on a main-series game he won't show any screenshot/info till 3~2 weeks before Reitaisai. At last, he can say "ah yeah I'm working on a new game as usual".
So I would wait until April. Nevertheless, it would be pretty strange to only have a non-danmaku spin off on a year.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 11, 2016, 03:08:08 pm
Now that I think of it, which one was the last shmup spin-off? Impossible Spell Card? Three fighting games for 1 shmup spin-off since Fairy Wars. Eh. Well, considering this is 15.5, it's safe to assume that the next game will be a main game too.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 11, 2016, 03:35:23 pm
The strongest duo will be Hecatia and herself  :V. She wanted to bring her third body in, but she was too lazy to come.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on December 11, 2016, 03:40:02 pm
So wait, we might see the Watasukis portrayed at a reasonable power level rather than 'lol danmaku tastes great'?

I might actually be okay with this. If only because I'd have a new dummy for training mode. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 11, 2016, 04:15:57 pm
Okay, so I just check the name. And just from the first word (Antimony), I found out two thing about them (from Wiki):

1. A chemical element used to be use in drug (?)
2. Self-contradict paradox (Like "there's no absolute duo)

So yeah, we're pretty much going to the weird end of thing already, and it does definitively involve the Alien (If Reisen's storyline isn't clear enough already)

Edit: Maybe the opponent this time is a Youkai that can only confirm it own existence by possessing other? Thus an Antimony of itself.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Sedrife on December 11, 2016, 04:27:57 pm
Time for another round of "Mima is coming back"

https://twitter.com/aaaaari35/status/807983252438822913

"So tell me just this, is the new character one that has never been made it to the fighting games?"
"that's right"
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Yatsuzume on December 11, 2016, 04:42:14 pm
Okay, so I just check the name. And just from the first word (Antimony), I found out two thing about them (from Wiki):

1. A chemical element used to be use in drug (?)
2. Self-contradict paradox (Like "there's no absolute duo)

So yeah, we're pretty much going to the weird end of thing already, and it does definitively involve the Alien (If Reisen's storyline isn't clear enough already)

Edit: Maybe the opponent this time is a Youkai that can only confirm it own existence by possessing other? Thus an Antimony of itself.

The name is "Antinomy of common flowers", not Antimony (which is the chemical element).

Antinomy can only be the second definition you mentioned.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 11, 2016, 04:57:44 pm
Funny how you could figure out part of the story even with the wrong word.

And probably that Bull have something to do with all of this (It's an Urban Legend that's famous without telling it story), meaning...NUE IS COMING.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on December 11, 2016, 05:52:01 pm
Oh god, I kinda half-predicted that a ULiL-soku game would be made, but this time it's more of it's standalone thing since the characters will still be relevant. I'm just happy Koishi will still make a return :V

Also, this talk about the "strongest duo", does this mean that the game will actually be tag-team based now? That'll be really interesting in this case. But that also means I can play as Koishi/Kokoro best friends now :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ZM on December 11, 2016, 06:17:07 pm
Information:
- ZUN only decided on the title three days ago
- Continuation of the Occult system
- A standalone game with all ULiL characters plus new characters
- No demo for this Winter Comiket
- Unabara said they also wished to port it to PS4, but this is still undecided

So characters that haven't been playable before along with newly made characters?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 11, 2016, 07:15:16 pm
Yes! I knew that it could be a spinoff fighting game, now I'm hoping for some characters of LoLK to appear!

So characters that haven't been playable before along with newly made characters?

I'm pretty sure that is only going to be one new character and is going to be the final boss, like always.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on December 11, 2016, 07:36:45 pm
Quote from: story summary
"The strongest duo have joined forces."
"Something bad might be in store for us humans."
"An opponent impossible to defeat by anybody alone?"
Ludicrous rumors are circulating, seemingly out of the fear in human villagers' hearts.

Since the title contains 依, it is reasonable to expect Yorihime (依姫) this time. In fact, the name of Tamayorihime, the dragon princess/priestess-goddess she is based on, means "the Noblewoman (hime) Possessed (yori) by Spirits (tama)." Being a vessel for spirits is exactly the goddess' specialty, and consequently Yorihime's.

But we are talking Touhou here. If you expect Yorihime, an all-new character may be what you get.

Hmm... just let those quotes sink in and see if you think the same than I do.
However, like cuc says, and knowing Zun, it's probably a new character.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Tiamat on December 11, 2016, 07:40:52 pm
Yea, IaMP brought about one new character, SWR brought two, HM brought one, and ULiL introduced one new character (not including Kasen)

So one character is most likely, although two is possible as well (but by now there are so many other Touhou characters to draw on that I'd be really surprised if there were resources to spare for a second new character rather than the devs deciding to bring over one more existing character to the HM engine and style)

(I'm not counting Yorihime as a new character, because even if she does show up, I highly doubt she'd be the culprit.  Thus even if Yorihime is in the game, likely as the sub-boss akin to Yukari in IaMP, there would probably be a new character to be the culprit)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ZM on December 11, 2016, 07:45:28 pm
So we're going to expect:
-The ULiL roster
-One (maybe two, though most likely one) new character

Will anyone else potentially make it in? I think the line might be drawn there.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 11, 2016, 08:02:19 pm
So we're going to expect:
-The ULiL roster
-One (maybe two, though most likely one) new character

Will anyone else potentially make it in? I think the line might be drawn there.

It's gonna probably be: The ULiL roster, one (Or two) new characters and some old characters of past games (Like LoLK, TD, UFO or EoSD) making an apparition as playable characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ZM on December 11, 2016, 08:23:33 pm
It's gonna probably be: The ULiL roster, one (Or two) new characters and some old characters of past games (Like LoLK, TD, UFO or EoSD) making an apparition as playable characters.

Sounds about right to me. Hoping for playable Junko, Clownpiece, or Hecatia.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 11, 2016, 08:41:47 pm
So assuming the "absolute duo" thing amounts to something, I guess now the question is who the teams will be. I guess I will guess some obvious ones or ones what sort of make sense. Of course they could do some absurd teams.
- Reimu and Marisa
- Byakuren and Ichirin
- Miko and Futo
- Koishi and Kokoro
- Mokou and Sumireko

This leaves Nitori, Mamizou, Sukuna, Kasen and Reisen. I guess if we are doing duos, I would see three already existing characters coming into the game, with two of them forming a new duo.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 11, 2016, 08:42:14 pm
Well ? With the end of the occult balls problem and with the way how ZUN wants the games to conform to the lore, I say it should be pretty safe to say we can kiss the mystery spots goodbye, then ? Maybe this one'll be a less RNGey fighter ? I'm curious to see whether the occult abilities are going to be used like any normal ones or if they are going to depend on something that'll replace the balls... Also, since this game's defining mechanic is expected to have something to do with that "perfect possession" thingy, I'm curious to see how it's going to work : the girls switching among themselves, using some sort of assist-like attack or something else ? If it's the first, it'll be pretty funny to think that ZUN would create a complicated setup for something other fighters'll write off as the other character waiting outside the ring.

Anyway, I'm pretty surprised by this piece of news. I hope this'll bring stuff that wouldn't lose to ULiL extra mode. Looking forward to new updates on this.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Goomba98 on December 11, 2016, 08:45:16 pm
So does "new characters" mean "characters that have appeared before in Touhou, but not in an aerial fighter yet" or "characters that are specifically new to AoCF"?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shizzo on December 11, 2016, 09:02:26 pm
Going by the tag-team rule, all I can say is that I vehemently hope we get Mamizou and Kasen teaming up and fighting among each other more than against their enemies. 
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 11, 2016, 09:05:14 pm
This leaves Nitori, Mamizou, Sukuna, Kasen and Reisen. I guess if we are doing duos, I would see three already existing characters coming into the game, with two of them forming a new duo.
Then that could mean:
-Mamizou and Nue.
-Sukuna and Seija.
-Reisen and either Eirin, Kaguya, Tewi or a character from LoLK.

Nitori maybe can be with Sanae, and Kasen could be with Yuugi (or Suika). But It could be pretty funny if she was paired with Komachi.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 11, 2016, 09:15:37 pm
-Reisen and either Eirin, Kaguya, Tewi or a character from LoLK.

ZUN wanted to include playable Kaguya and Mokou on Soku.
Mokou's already playable, so~
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 11, 2016, 09:36:45 pm
-Reisen and either Eirin, Kaguya, Tewi or a character from LoLK.
ZUN wanted to include playable Kaguya and Mokou on Soku.
Mokou's already playable, so~
God, yes please. Let this be real. That would make my hype go through the roof as opposed to the current "eh, cool I guess"

As far as the "new" inclusions, Clownpiece/Hecatia would be somewhat of a letdown personally, but I'd be down for a playable Sagume.

Kinda hoping the Yorihime "rumor" is true as well. That'd be really cool.

Also, I was thinking, but maybe the "tag team" thing means that you'd compose your own team, rather than Imperishable Night style fixed teams?
Not sure how that'd work out story wise, though. But gameplay wise it'd sure be really neat.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 11, 2016, 10:02:36 pm
My personal hopes are for Seiga, Junko and Hecatia. Junko and Hecatia already work as a team, so there's that. I sort of feel like they might want to par as many existing characters together as possible before introducing new ones to fill out the pairs.

Of course the pairing speculation only work if the pairs will make sense. After all, "Those who have made the error of seeing themselves as the strongest duo. This is their bittersweet story.". The teams might end up being unorthodox, and as such not be the "strongest duo".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 11, 2016, 10:09:06 pm
Now that I think about it... If this game is about "Tag Team", does that mean that the final boss is going to be two persons fighting at the same time? Is the final boss going to be an original character and a past character or two new characters?

Also, I was thinking, but maybe the "tag team" thing means that you'd compose your own team, rather than Imperishable Night style fixed teams?
Not sure how that'd work out story wise, though. But gameplay wise it'd sure be really neat.

Maybe fixed two teams in story mode and compose your own team of two in VS mode? You know, like how in Skullgirls you can choose only one character on story mode but you can choose more than one character on Versus mode.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 11, 2016, 10:23:37 pm
Then again, many tag team fighters tend to have a single character as a final boss. Example would be like in Street Fighter X Tekken, where the final boss is either Akuma or Ogre.  Not the two at the same time, one or the another.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on December 11, 2016, 10:49:03 pm
So does "new characters" mean "characters that have appeared before in Touhou, but not in an aerial fighter yet" or "characters that are specifically new to AoCF"?

People seem to be using the latter definition. It's tripping me up a bit because I always use the former.

As for the roster, I'm expecting three "new-to-flying-fighting-games" characters (so that the number of oldtimers is an even number), as well as two new characters that will be the final boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 11, 2016, 10:57:04 pm
*sniff* it smells nasty, Yukarin gonna be in this mess.
I say pretty high chance Hecatia or Clownpiece gonna be in this, something to do about Heca tellling Clownpiece to stay in Gensoukyo. (It's Touhou! Final part of trilogy fighting series gotta have fairies on it!)
Im also thinking highest chance are one of PCB, maybe the ghost or poltergeist. second place candidate is Komachi, possibly something to back Kasen up (also execuse for PoFV representative). third is from EoSD, tho very unlikely, but we haven't gotten one from that title.
Well, those can be just easily discarded for favor of all-new character.

edit : actually, Aki sisters & Tsukumo sisters really does make a lot of sense to be in this
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 11, 2016, 11:04:43 pm
Then again, many tag team fighters tend to have a single character as a final boss. Example would be like in Street Fighter X Tekken, where the final boss is either Akuma or Ogre.  Not the two at the same time, one or the another.

But they're still two bosses in that game... Maybe there are two new characters, and you fight with them separately in the others story mode (Like how you fighted with Iku first then with Tenshi in SWR) but they're a team in their story mode?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Sophilia on December 11, 2016, 11:12:17 pm
Hmmm...dumb speculation time. 

This incident's origin might be related to Sumireko.  I think someone else has latched on to the rumor spread by her "humaning away" effect from WaHH and is taking it as far as they can with the Urban Legend power.  I really don't expect Lunarians involved.

Though if it's a duo tag system, and flowers are a thing of note...Yuuka teamed with herself for penultimate boss?  That'd definitely explain why the villagers are flipping out.  The final's got to be a new character or characters, of course, that's just how ZUN does it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 11, 2016, 11:15:52 pm
*sniff* it smells nasty, Yukarin gonna be in this mess.

No she isn't.

She said she wasn't interested in the Urban Legend stuff in Marisa's LOLK ending.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 11, 2016, 11:48:17 pm
No she isn't.

She said she wasn't interested in the Urban Legend stuff in Marisa's LOLK ending.

Damn! i just wanna say it! i thought it was a chance! damn you old man

edit : sorry about that, i didn't mean to say "damn" to you old man
I meant to say "Yukarin complicated anyway" in effort to avoid off topic
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 12, 2016, 12:05:09 am
Since the title contains 依, it is reasonable to expect Yorihime (依姫) this time. In fact, the name of Tamayorihime, the dragon princess/priestess-goddess she is based on, means "the Noblewoman (hime) Possessed (yori) by Spirits (tama)." Being a vessel for spirits is exactly the goddess' specialty, and consequently Yorihime's.

But we are talking Touhou here. If you expect Yorihime, an all-new character may be what you get.No, ULiL is not needed.

Also the ULiL PS4 story specially stated that all users of Occult Balls are vulnerable to the effect.
Remember when some people expected Shinki in HM because the Japanese title contains a character found in her name?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on December 12, 2016, 12:25:51 am
Tag Team Touhou oh boy.
I wonder how the gameplay will look. Tekken-style character switching, or Marvel-style assists? Or both?
If the combo system holds up, the game will look pretty crazy, and that'd be really cool.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: NinjiGenki on December 12, 2016, 02:48:26 am
I wonder what they are going to do for the music.
Will they reused the remixed tracks from ULiL?
Will they ask more artists to remix tracks for the new characters?

It be cool to see the same soundtrack remixed again, but I can see that being more of a hassle than just reusing tracks.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 12, 2016, 04:30:55 am
I'll bet the final boss we're going to fight the other one in our team-up somehow, before fighting the clone of the duo, before facing down on the boss. That would definitively be appropriated with the theme.

Edit: Hopefully ZUN could deliver it though. The idea of a tag-team fighting game have too much potential to be used, it's maybe too hard to program it.

About the Duo itself though:
1. Reimu/ Marisa
2. Miko/Hijiri
3. Kokoro/Koishi
4.  Kaguya / Mokou
5.  Kasen / Sumireko

other are pretty much too at odd at each other to think of a proper pair-up.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Margatron on December 12, 2016, 05:08:28 am
Duos speculation:

1. Reimu/Sukuna - they already live together basically.
2. Marisa/Nitori - history. Besides, Reimu/Marisa together is way too op and unlikely story-wise.
3. Ichirin/Hijiri
4. Futo/Miko - obvious pairs.
5. Kokoro/Koishi
6. Kasen/Mamizou
7. Mokou/Sumireko - friendsies!
8. Reisen/?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 12, 2016, 05:11:01 am
If it's going to be something like counterpart pairing, i think Kasen would be with Mamizou. Sumireko is lackeys

I think it's right to expect Kaguya, along with Wriggle, or only one of them. Hisoutensoku wiki said ZUN had planned for them.

Spiritual/Mystic
Buddhist/Taoist (boy, freakin hilarious lmao)
Buddhist lackeys/Taoist lackeys (even more hilarious lmfao)
Deceitfull Tanuki/Goody-Goody Hermit-in-Name
Not actually Rei-Ayanami expy/2015 popularity poll 1st place
Water/Fire
Dream Glassess Girl/Illusionist Long Ear Girl
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 12, 2016, 05:16:45 am
How much do you wanna bet that its going to be characters that NO ONE expected?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nimono on December 12, 2016, 05:23:38 am
Somehow, I get the feeling that the title will make perfect sense in the end, but in a way we'd NEVER be able to come up with until we see the story. Like "Hopeless Masquerade". I don't think many people here called that the plot of it was a menreiki (masquerade) stealing hope (hopeless) in order restore her lost mask of hope!

The plot already has me in its clutches. I MUST KNOW WHAT HAPPENS!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 12, 2016, 05:53:41 am
My flipping brain if Yuuka moe gonna be one of them.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 12, 2016, 06:29:26 am

About the Duo itself though:
4.  Kaguya / Mokou

other are pretty much too at odd at each other to think of a proper pair-up.

... :U


In the end, though, all this speculation will be completely thrown out the window when the new characters are announced and we find out none of them make any sense and ZUN/Tasofro just added them because they thought it'd be cool.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 12, 2016, 06:30:38 am
4chan's already trashing this game like it's already out.  Touhou is already dead to them.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: snowflake247 on December 12, 2016, 06:36:19 am
Somehow I almost feel like Medicine is more likely to be involved than Yuuka.

If Yuuka is in the game, it would be neat to see her paired with Doremy as a Dream World team, even though I realize Doremy's probably pretty unlikely.

4chan's already trashing this game like it's already out.  Touhou is already dead to them.
what else is new
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 12, 2016, 06:47:27 am
Somehow I almost feel like Medicine is more likely to be involved than Yuuka.

If Yuuka is in the game, it would be neat to see her paired with Doremy as a Dream World team, even though I realize Doremy's probably pretty unlikely.
what else is new
Makes me wonder if ULIL's reveal had such an overwhelming negative reaction here, how bad was the reaction there.  This place is taking this game nicely.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 12, 2016, 07:12:23 am
Makes me wonder if ULIL's reveal had such an overwhelming negative reaction here, how bad was the reaction there.  This place is taking this game nicely.

Well, 4chan only like the Touhou games that are Danmaku, they act a lot more violent and they have more trolls, haters and other awful things. There are rules here that aren't in 4chan, that's why is so chaotic there and here is much more smoother and pacific.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Kirin no Sora on December 12, 2016, 07:54:25 am
I just had a thought about something...

Kosuzu recently got a musical theme, believe it or not, and she had been possessed before in FS, so maybe maybe the final boss is someone who's possessing Kosuzu? I know that the ones who used the Occult Orbs are the ones vulnerable here, but it would not surprise me if this actually happened, given Kosuzu's habit of accidentally stirring up trouble...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 12, 2016, 07:59:19 am
Playable Kosuzu, that's something I want to believe.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Jeremie on December 12, 2016, 08:12:41 am
... :U


In the end, though, all this speculation will be completely thrown out the window when the new characters are announced and we find out none of them make any sense and ZUN/Tasofro just added them because they thought it'd be cool.

It might be this or another one of those instances where a character(s) is added based on a remark, dialogue scene or something obscure in one of the print works. This is how Koishi got in HM after all. As for Kosuzu, I could imagine her fighting with books which she opens to do various effects although that would involve inserting something completely new that hasn't been established and I guess there's no way she'd want to risk damaging the books.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 12, 2016, 08:14:45 am

If Yuuka is in the game, it would be neat to see her paired with Doremy as a Dream World team, even though I realize Doremy's probably pretty unlikely.
Windows Yuuka has no relation to dreams or the Dream World whatsoever, tho.

Also, unless something changed, Sumireko should be unable to visit Gensokyo physically, and outside her sleep time.

Adding Rumia, Wriggle, and Kaguya, would finally complete Soku's initial idea.

Is it somehow confirmed to have playable teams? Otherwise i'm guessing you only have teams as opponents when playing the story.

The rumors about this unbeatable enemy are similar to how Taisui Xingjun in Soku was also supposedly invincible. Probably a call back?

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 12, 2016, 08:14:55 am
Well, 4chan only like the Touhou games that are Danmaku, they act a lot more violent and they have more trolls, haters and other awful things. There are rules here that aren't in 4chan, that's why is so chaotic there and here is much more smoother and pacific.
I still remember how much chaos and negativity there was here when ULIL's gameplay was revealed.  Someone even cried Christmas is ruined...  Surprised the same hasn't happened for this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 12, 2016, 08:17:55 am
And then people realised many of the issues they had with Hopeless Masquerade were eliminated, except for those who didn't even want to try.  :V

Know that this girl is very powerful right now. Almost enough to tear right through time! Oh, were it true~ (The power of this enthusiasm--!  :getdown:)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 12, 2016, 08:23:11 am
I mean, I'm never particularly enthusiastic about fighting game spin-offs, and even less this time around because it's like the third in such a short time (fourth if you include the ULiL re-release, I guess) 
But the playable roster might make me change my mind (or make me meh even further, depending.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 12, 2016, 08:29:56 am
For the record, my one favourite thing from this series, other than the soundtrack, is character interaction. Competitive fighters are perfect for that purpose. :V

So when ZUN said he had a new game in the works, is it safe to assume this is what he was talking about? Or should we expect another announcement sometime this month?
"It could be either, depending on how you interpret it. technically, he *has* been working on this game, though he hasn't been a part of the gameplay development. :3 Hopefully we do get another double release!"
Nevermind, this was a response to a comment by Tresser on page one. I sleep good~
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 12, 2016, 04:16:00 pm
I'm going to make a guess and say one of the teams is Reimu/Mokou, since we already saw them switching places in ULiL extra.

As for the new old characters, I'd guess at least one person from LoLK, maybe 2 since we have the team system. Junko would be interesting to see, Clownpiece is already getting some spotlight in the manga and would also be interesting to see, I can't imagine how Hecatia would play but she's the next one I'd imagine.

I'd expect read: hope Nue and/or Seija too, though I expected them last game and that didn't happen.

ZUN's recent return to the old games makes me think we might be getting a character from 6-9, though I feel like he's already given the IN crew their spotlight.

I don't think the pairs are going to be obvious a la Reimu/Marisa or Ichirin/Byakuren, so I don't really have guesses on that.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on December 12, 2016, 05:30:47 pm
Although story mode will most certainly be concrete pairs, I wouldn't be surprised if normal play lets you mix n' match.

It could go either way though (If all play is concrete teams there may be some duo moves, such as a finisher ala last words)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on December 13, 2016, 01:01:13 am
Fixed teams would be horrible and I don't think they will go that way.
Even if the system allowed you to just play one character all the time with no penalty, that would be a terrible waste of potential.

That said, there are a lot of possibilities to consider when designing a tag team system. Would the characters have separate life bars or a shared one - and if separate, will the loss of one team member equal KO or not? How vital will switching out be to resource management? If not very vital, then will simple ULiL-style 1v1 battles be a viable option for Versus Mode? If vital, then what kind of variety will it bring to the gameplay? Switchout moves? Tag cancels? Assists? Combo breakers? Some character-dependent passive benefits on switch like in Ougon Musou Kyoku? There is a lot to consider.

Too bad a hypothetical 2 player vs 2 player mode is unlikely, if for the sheer hassle that would bring to configuring the keybinding on PC. That would be an incredibly sweet PvP option...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Iced Fairy on December 13, 2016, 01:26:26 am
Has there been any confirmation this is a tag battle/two character system?  Or is that just speculation based on the limited info given?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 13, 2016, 01:30:54 am
Fixed teams would be horrible and I don't think they will go that way.
Even if the system allowed you to just play one character all the time with no penalty, that would be a terrible waste of potential.

That said, there are a lot of possibilities to consider when designing a tag team system. Would the characters have separate life bars or a shared one - and if separate, will the loss of one team member equal KO or not? How vital will switching out be to resource management? If not very vital, then will simple ULiL-style 1v1 battles be a viable option for Versus Mode? If vital, then what kind of variety will it bring to the gameplay? Switchout moves? Tag cancels? Assists? Combo breakers? Some character-dependent passive benefits on switch like in Ougon Musou Kyoku? There is a lot to consider.

Too bad a hypothetical 2 player vs 2 player mode is unlikely, if for the sheer hassle that would bring to configuring the keybinding on PC. That would be an incredibly sweet PvP option...

When they said "not only in mind, but also in body" im guessing it's separate life bar, thus the "perfect possession" instead of simply possession, or can be said swap places/existence. who knows at this point yet, let's just indulge in wild guess game anyway.

Probably fixed partner/pair for the story mode, otherwise there will be too much dialogue variation.
But if 1v1 or solo is viable it would defeat the purpose of the new pair mechanic. rendering it your average fighters imo

Who started saying it's 2v2 anyway?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 13, 2016, 01:36:07 am
Has there been any confirmation this is a tag battle/two character system?  Or is that just speculation based on the limited info given?
Speculation.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on December 13, 2016, 05:38:25 am
The only time there will be "fixed" teams will be in story mode. Outside of that, if tag teams exist, it should be open-ended.

However, we all speculate that we can control two characters, but what if instead it was assist-based? Basically we take charge of one character, and the second character will be the "assist" only that helps out through a special move and that's it?

It's just another possibility but seems like something Tasofro would think of.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: monhan on December 13, 2016, 10:41:25 am
I think the tag system will be instantaneous, unlike most other fighters we've seen since they said it's like a teleport. So I imagine the swapping to happen right away in the middle of attacks, like Double from Skullgirls.

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Marron on December 13, 2016, 01:31:13 pm
I've followed this topic because I like those speculations about a new game. :)

I won't give my opinion about a new fighting game. What I would like to talk about is Hecatia. We're speculating about the fact that it's probably a tag team fighting game. If that were to be the case-and I'm not happy about what I'm going to say-, I don't think Hecatia will be playable. Like some people here, I would love to see a Junko/Hecatia team, since the two of them are my favorite characters from LoLK. But I think it's hardly possible if we take into account that Hecatia has three bodies. I don't see how she would fit the game with three separate bodies. If she "teleports" "switch" or "disapears", wouldn't it be more logic for her to swich with another body of her than switching place with Junko ?

I would like someone to explain to me how it would be possible. I don't know how it would work to include Junko/Hecatia in this game as a team because of that three bodies thing. Then again, the solution would be . . . Zun logic ?

A little joke here, if you want medicine to be playable, tag her with Yamame: Spread-the-poison-to-gensokyo-team ohohoh  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Firestorm29 on December 13, 2016, 01:41:38 pm
I'm starting to expect a "Imperishable Night: The Fighters" sort of approach. I'm expecting some characters to appear like Yuyuko, Yuuka, Cirno and some of the Prismrivers to pop-up. Maybe Yukari... It feels like this possession theme would fit something where the 2nd character modifies the danmaku and perhaps changes how attacks work.

And I'm feeling on going all on red for Kosuzu showing up.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 13, 2016, 01:53:02 pm
I've followed this topic because I like those speculations about a new game. :)

I won't give my opinion about a new fighting game. What I would like to talk about is Hecatia. We're speculating about the fact that it's probably a tag team fighting game. If that were to be the case-and I'm not happy about what I'm going to say-, I don't think Hecatia will be playable. Like some people here, I would love to see a Junko/Hecatia team, since the two of them are my favorite characters from LoLK. But I think it's hardly possible if we take into account that Hecatia has three bodies. I don't see how she would fit the game with three separate bodies. If she "teleports" "switch" or "disapears", wouldn't it be more logic for her to swich with another body of her than switching place with Junko ?

I would like someone to explain to me how it would be possible. I don't know how it would work to include Junko/Hecatia in this game as a team because of that three bodies thing. Then again, the solution would be . . . Zun logic ?

A little joke here, if you want medicine to be playable, tag her with Yamame: Spread-the-poison-to-gensokyo-team ohohoh  :3
I imagine Hecatia to be a stance character, where changing her hair color will give her new playstyles and moves.

As much as it would be cool to see her playable, ZUN seems to have something against overly powerful characters being playable.  He said the Watatsuki Sisters are too powerful to be playable, and since Hecatia is more or less confirmed to be the most powerful character to appear in the series so far...  Yeah...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 13, 2016, 02:19:03 pm
I imagine Hecatia to be a stance character, where changing her hair color will give her new playstyles and moves.

As much as it would be cool to see her playable, ZUN seems to have something against overly powerful characters being playable.  He said the Watatsuki Sisters are too powerful to be playable, and since Hecatia is more or less confirmed to be the most powerful character to appear in the series so far...  Yeah...
He actually said Yorihime was too strong to be a boss, because you should be able to defeat her. If anything, making her or Hecatia playable would be the best way to use them. And given the rumor of someone so powerful to be considered unbeatable in 1vs1 duels, this is probably the best chance for them to appear anywhere.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 13, 2016, 02:23:58 pm
ZUN kan't into Western philosophy.

Quoting this because it's a beautiful pun that deserved far more recognition than the none it got.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on December 13, 2016, 02:37:43 pm
ZUN saying the Watatsuki characters can't be in a game makes perfect sense if you've read the mangas; they're nigh undefeatable. They're not just strong, they're Mary Sue tier almost-invincible and do things like casually cut master spark in half and mock you. You can't really compare anyone else to them- if Hecatia was reasonably defeatable in an extra stage (And that was without the Ultramarine Medicine, as well) than she could reasonably enough appear. I still don't think she -will-, though.

After all, the "person too strong to defeat 1v1" is most likely going to be a new character. I would be shocked if the final boss wasn't new.

I could see the HP bars going either way (seperate or together) because AFAIK it was implied Reimu was fairly beat up in ULiL after Mokou had "possessed" her. Slightly confusing.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 13, 2016, 05:29:43 pm
ZUN literally said "Hecatia is stronger than anyone in Gensokyo or the Lunar Capital". The only reason we can beat her in extra is because she and Junko had already given up- she was just playing around.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 13, 2016, 05:30:43 pm
and since Hecatia is more or less confirmed to be the most powerful character to appear in the series so far...  Yeah...
Is that so? I'll admit I've only just grazed over LoLK so far, so I'm not entirely knowledgeable about it.

I do think there's no way the final boss won't be a new character though, much like others have said. Also in turn, even if it's just speculation, I think it'd be a huge waste if they didn't use the opportunity for tag team gameplay.

Edit:
ZUN literally said "Hecatia is stronger than anyone in Gensokyo or the Lunar Capital". The only reason we can beat her in extra is because she and Junko had already given up- she was just playing around.
When'd he say that?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 13, 2016, 05:46:54 pm
Is that so? I'll admit I've only just grazed over LoLK so far, so I'm not entirely knowledgeable about it.

I do think there's no way the final boss won't be a new character though, much like others have said. Also in turn, even if it's just speculation, I think it'd be a huge waste if they didn't use the opportunity for tag team gameplay.

Edit: When'd he say that?
LoLK interview (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom_interview_with_ZUN) (Hecatia's section).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 13, 2016, 05:50:21 pm
LoLK interview (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom_interview_with_ZUN) (Hecatia's section).
Huh, interesting. In context, it kind of sounds like he's saying she's this powerful in contrast to other characters who play by the rules. ie. Playing by the rules vs not playing by the rules = obviously a power mismatch.

Sorry I'm derailing this.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lishy1 on December 13, 2016, 11:47:52 pm
All this talk about the "dangers" to humans makes me think... Mima!?!? Nah. Couldn't be.

I kinda miss the Hisoutensoku systems, with decks and customization. It gave the game a lot of personality and flavor to the average player.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 14, 2016, 12:56:21 am
ZUN saying the Watatsuki characters can't be in a game makes perfect sense if you've read the mangas; they're nigh undefeatable. They're not just strong, they're Mary Sue tier almost-invincible and do things like casually cut master spark in half and mock you. You can't really compare anyone else to them- if Hecatia was reasonably defeatable in an extra stage (And that was without the Ultramarine Medicine, as well) than she could reasonably enough appear. I still don't think she -will-, though.

After all, the "person too strong to defeat 1v1" is most likely going to be a new character. I would be shocked if the final boss wasn't new.

I could see the HP bars going either way (seperate or together) because AFAIK it was implied Reimu was fairly beat up in ULiL after Mokou had "possessed" her. Slightly confusing.
Hecatia was beatable because she wasn't fighting seriously on purpose.  Since Yorihime has a no-nonsense attitude, I can see not fighting seriously and thus losing being out of character for her.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Jeremie on December 14, 2016, 03:16:55 am
Toyohime could totally be a "beatable" boss character in a fighting game. She could be just like Hazama in earlier Blazblue games. "Winning" against her doesn't even mean she's beaten but that she's just taking it easy. I think she has enough of a playful personality to do such a thing. Yorihime though would be indeed much harder to justify since she probably wouldn't ever hold back.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 14, 2016, 04:12:58 am
Toyohime could totally be a "beatable" boss character in a fighting game. She could be just like Hazama in earlier Blazblue games. "Winning" against her doesn't even mean she's beaten but that she's just taking it easy. I think she has enough of a playful personality to do such a thing. Yorihime though would be indeed much harder to justify since she probably wouldn't ever hold back.

Kinda like how you can beat Tenshi when she is a boss in SWR Story Mode, but only because she wasn't fighting seriously?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Jeremie on December 14, 2016, 07:10:43 am
Kinda like how you can beat Tenshi when she is a boss in SWR Story Mode, but only because she wasn't fighting seriously?

Pretty similar yes although in that example I gave, it goes further. The boss keeps smiling when he's hit, "defeated" and a time out victory yields a sarcastic clap from the character.  Afterwards, all the following cutscenes usually shows that he's perfectly fine anyway. He's pretty much just trolling/messing with the characters. While Toyohime wouldn't be as much of a jerk, I think it's not too much of a stretch to have her as a boss in a similar fashion. Now that I think of it, an alternative with Yorihime would be that depleting her health to 0 would just have her stay in a normal stance, not laying on the ground or exhausted at all. What happens next is that your character would be exhausted while she's just fine. Basically, in a story that could use a specific character, there's all sorts of ways or alternatives ZUN could use to bring a character he'd want to use regardless of "power levels" or those rather irrelevant things when it comes to the fighting game genre.  :3

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 14, 2016, 07:23:19 am
I don't think this incident would involve the Moon anymore though, since even the story said their's role is finished. If it even does involve to the extend that Yorihime is here, that would actually mean the new boss is someone strong enough to make even her get roped in. And that's would mean she's pretty fkin high in the strength totem (Like on Yukari-level), and I don't think Zun want that for such a local event.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 14, 2016, 07:30:32 am
Now that I think about it, that's true. I think it'd be a bit odd to have more lunarians brought in after everything said during Reisen's route in ULiL.
I mean, Reisen could just be wrong, but considering Touhou storytelling is usually done through dialogue as far as the games are concerned (well, that and the endings), it'd be weird to have the entire last route of a game - that is basically meant as a setup for the next game - say the same "No, it isn't A" repeatedly just for the next game to completely disregard that and go "Actually it was A lol".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 14, 2016, 07:38:39 am
Well, if there is anything to this. I guess the goal of the new boss would be to revive herself, and make herself know, based on the fact that the Occult Ball turn anything unreal into a reality, and possesion is used to be a famous method for an indivitual to be know of.

Also I does found something interest after a quick research on this, hope this may get relevant: https://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/07/02/tsukimono-the-possessing-thing/
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 14, 2016, 07:57:45 am
The only Lunarian I would see getting involved is Sagume, but only because she is partly the origin of the whole urban legend thing, so she would get dragged into this unwittingly.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 14, 2016, 08:36:03 am
After some thinking, here's what I know about the new boss:
1. She's either a spirit, or involved with spirit (since both Reimu and Miko, the two who are known to be able to listen to spirit, have a clue about her).
2. She's invisible to the naked eyes, or otherwise have such a low presence to leave no physical tract (Since (presumingly) no other ULiL, not even Hijiri or Reisen, know about such indivitual other that through the Occult Ball).
3. She's smart enough to used the Occult Ball, since the kanji 憑 (tsuki; possession) is pun with the kanji for the moon, thus the connection.
4. Possession is her main theme and expertive (this is kinda obvious).

Unfortunately, that still leave many suspect. But perhap this would help in our speculation.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 14, 2016, 10:38:48 am
I know!  Have Hecatia be playable, while Yorihime is an unplayable boss that only the former can fight.  This way, the latter losing makes sense!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 14, 2016, 11:05:15 am
I'd rather play Yorihime-
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 14, 2016, 12:19:55 pm
I'd only accept Yorihime if she suffers a painful and humiliating death.

So in other words, I don't want Yorihime to be involved.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 14, 2016, 12:20:54 pm
Such hate filled words.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 14, 2016, 12:36:05 pm
And here i thought the Watatsuki hate ship finally sunk.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 14, 2016, 12:58:17 pm
I'd only accept Yorihime if she suffers a painful and humiliating death.

So in other words, I don't want Yorihime to be involved.
The ending to the aforementioned boss fight shows Yorihime's severed head on top of Hecatia's head.  Happy?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 14, 2016, 01:49:49 pm
Since AoCF will use the urban legend system, The new playable characters will of course, have a urban legend.
We should think about that too.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 14, 2016, 02:11:05 pm
Come on, aside from her racism, it's not like she's that bad of a person. Decent by our standard if she wasn't filled with hatred against us.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nikkanoffun on December 14, 2016, 11:23:18 pm
ZUN literally said "Hecatia is stronger than anyone in Gensokyo or the Lunar Capital". The only reason we can beat her in extra is because she and Junko had already given up- she was just playing around.

He forgot the main rule danmaku? "If it won't hit, it's nothing to worry about!" (с)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 15, 2016, 12:14:26 am
Okay, maybe she doesn't deserve to die. But I'd be pretty annoyed if she continued to act like a smug bitch and got no punishment for it at all. She and her sister are already pretty annoying Mary Sues. What they don't need to be even more Sueish.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 15, 2016, 12:55:27 am
Bakatsukis haet so stronk, basically the guy hate anything that hadn't been beaten up by the hakurei shrine maiden. though everyone is smug in a way.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 15, 2016, 02:30:13 am
If there are more characters in the game, and if they can still use Urban Legends. Then, there are a lot of characters that could fit them perfectly fine.

Minamitsu Murasa: The Bermuda Triangle.
Clownpiece: The Clown Statue.
Seiga Kaku: Teke Teke.
Yoshika Miyako: Fast Food Restaurants Urban Legends.
Hecatia Lapislazuli: The Jersey Devil.
Kaguya Houraisan: The Moon Landing Hoax.
Nazrin: Rat Dog.

I'm just giving examples.

Since AoCF will use the urban legend system, The new playable characters will have of course, have a urban legend.
We should think about that too.


Well, maybe an Urban Legend that have to do with possessions or disappearances? Though, I don't know about a single one that had to do with flowers and possessions at the same time...

The only Lunarian I would see getting involved is Sagume, but only because she is partly the origin of the whole urban legend thing, so she would get dragged into this unwittingly.

Well, don't know if Hecatia or Junko are possible to be playable in this game. But the other ones, I think they have a possibility to be in this game too.
We still don't know if Seiran and Ringo are out of Gensokyo. After all, Seiran is probably in trouble for saying to Reimu about the base and Ringo prefer to live in Gensokyo than in the moon. Maybe they can be part of this incident by accident?
Clownpiece is still on Gensokyo too. Maybe Hecatia said to her that she need to resolve or investigate this incident?
Don't know if Doremi Sweet can go out of the Dream World, but if she can, then maybe she can go to Gensokyo because the incident have something to do with dreams? Maybe in search of Usami Sumireko?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 15, 2016, 03:30:53 am
Well, if anything, I guess the new boss this time is either a Divine Spirit (that Miko expertive), control Spirit, or being a Kotodama master in general (like Konoha in Yozakura quartet, but way, way better), or any combination above. And the third one make more sense, since :a. She could used that to control what people said and create rumor, b. She's using the double pun between Tsuki (Moon, AKA the occult ball) and Tsuki (possession) like a word master do and c. Only Reimu and Miko could know her, since they could listen to the spirit.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 15, 2016, 03:59:49 am
Kaguya Houraisan: The Moon Landing Hoax.
Can't really do that when it was literally the plot of LoLK.

We still don't know if Seiran and Ringo are out of Gensokyo.
They stayed. They're in the endings.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 15, 2016, 04:46:18 am
Can't really do that when it was literally the plot of LoLK.
But that doesn't mean that she can't use it, right?
Well, if she can't, then maybe she can use the Mars Hoax/Two Moons? Or maybe The Black Knight Satellite?

They stayed. They're in the endings.
Well, that's great! I really liked Seiran and Ringo. Actually, I liked every character in LoLK... But I liked Seiran and Ringo more
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 15, 2016, 05:35:47 am
Well, they could potentially become a Duo themselve (Team Moon rabbit or something), and then do the two moon hoax. They pretty much didn't involve much with the moon itself, so they could still be in the plot.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 15, 2016, 08:25:48 am
If there are more characters in the game, and if they can still use Urban Legends. Then, there are a lot of characters that could fit them perfectly fine.

Minamitsu Murasa: The Bermuda Triangle.
Clownpiece: The Clown Statue.
Seiga Kaku: Teke Teke.
Yoshika Miyako: Fast Food Restaurants Urban Legends.
Hecatia Lapislazuli: The Jersey Devil.
Kaguya Houraisan: The Moon Landing Hoax.
Nazrin: Rat Dog.

I'm just giving examples.

Alice could have Annabelle as her urban legend,  or the okiku doll, because dolls n' stuff.

Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on December 15, 2016, 08:44:25 am
If there are more characters in the game, and if they can still use Urban Legends. Then, there are a lot of characters that could fit them perfectly fine.

Minamitsu Murasa: The Bermuda Triangle.
Clownpiece: The Clown Statue.
Seiga Kaku: Teke Teke.
Yoshika Miyako: Fast Food Restaurants Urban Legends.
Hecatia Lapislazuli: The Jersey Devil.
Kaguya Houraisan: The Moon Landing Hoax.
Nazrin: Rat Dog.

How about the Roswell Crash? Or the Philadelphia Experiment? Or Project MK-Ultra?

Also, the possessing thing has a striking similarity to the Agents' body-surfing in the Matrix movies. Because the movie is what I thought when I saw what the incident in AOCF is.
Perhaps the plot will be a Whole Plot Reference to The Matrix, and that the final boss will be an Agent Smith wannabe?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 15, 2016, 09:31:10 am
I don't really think so, but perhap the boss would used some similar Urban Legend. Don't know what it is though
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 15, 2016, 11:13:09 am
How about the Roswell Crash? Or the Philadelphia Experiment? Or Project MK-Ultra?

Roswell Crash sound more like it could be Nue Houjuu Urban Legend. And the Philadelphia Experiment sound more like it could be Seiran Urban Legend, mostly because her ability and the Legend being war related. But the Project MK-Ultra sounds really great and final boss like. Like how Usami Sumireko Urban Legend is The End Of The World or Doppelgänger

I though about some more Urban Legends:
Sakuya Izayoi: John Titor.
Sekibanki: The Headless Horseman.
Cirno: Famous People Cryogenization.
Kanako or Suwako: Sewer Gators.
Doremi Sweet: The Russian Sleep Experiment.
Komachi Onozuka: The Grim Reaper.
Rin Satsuki: Kidney Theft. (Edit: Sorry, I confused the names:  Rin Kaenbyou is the one that should have the Urban Legend, not Rin Satsuki)

Wow, there are a LOT of Urban Legends... Could be fun to find one by one Urban Legends that can fit all of the Touhou characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on December 15, 2016, 11:14:42 am
Perhaps the plot will be a Whole Plot Reference to The Matrix, and that the final boss will be an Agent Smith wannabe?
So wearing a suit, sunglasses and calling everyone by their surname?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 15, 2016, 12:19:12 pm
Funny how Nue is associated with aliens and space, even though she's a completely Earth-based creature with no relation to those things.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 15, 2016, 12:35:01 pm
Here are my ideas for the urban legends of some characters
Sagume: Tomino's Hell
Youmu: Doppelgänger
Yuyuko: Kokkuri-san
Sanae: School ghost stories, possibly Glad you didnt turn on the lights?
Wriggle: Mothman
Nue: Area 51
Kagerou  or Momiji: Jinmenken
Parsee: Inokashira Park Curse (or any other curse story)
Suika(?): Cursed Kleenex Commercial ( i don't know, i heard the commercial had a oni)
That's all i got for now.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 15, 2016, 01:11:36 pm
They stayed. They're in the endings.

They were on the Legacy Miss endings, right?
I mean, according to ZUN only Pointdevice/No Miss endings are the true 'canon' ones.

Although you can never really tell what's canon and what's not in the game as "everything happens at the same time".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 15, 2016, 01:44:28 pm
It's worth remembering that characters like Yuyuko, Sakuya, and Komachi are unlikely to show up, since ZUN said he wanted to focus on characters that weren't in previous fighters a while ago during the ULiL release.

It's ALSO worth pointing out that the majority of urban legends in the game are japanese, or otherwise extremely general (Men in Black, sponntaneous human combustion, etc.). I totally can't see ZUN giving characters things like the Roswell incident or kidney stealing unless he has a really good reason (perhaps on Hecatia or Clowniece?)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 15, 2016, 01:47:27 pm
They were on the Legacy Miss endings, right?
I mean, according to ZUN only Pointdevice/No Miss endings are the true 'canon' ones.

Although you can never really tell what's canon and what's not in the game as "everything happens at the same time".
Reisen-Miss explicitly continues into the Extra stage, so disregarding Miss endings outright is strange. If that isn't good enough reasoning, then the common "UFO MarisaB is the canon route" argument is also invalid; but if all of the endings in that game are valid, then why say some endings in this one aren't? Because ZUN talked about No-Miss being canon? Because he said that about UFO MarisaB too. Checkmate??

Personally I think that it's demonstrable across so many of the games that no one route is "canon" and that each (good) ending yields something of value that often continues into future works, so I find all of this "which routes are canon" business a silly waste of time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 15, 2016, 02:14:38 pm
Roswell Crash sound more like it could be Nue Houjuu Urban Legend. And the Philadelphia Experiment sound more like it could be Seiran Urban Legend, mostly because her ability and the Legend being war related. But the Project MK-Ultra sounds really great and final boss like. Like how Usami Sumireko Urban Legend is The End Of The World or Doppelgänger

I though about some more Urban Legends:
Sakuya Izayoi: John Titor.
Sekibanki: The Headless Horseman.
Cirno: Famous People Cryogenization.
Kanako or Suwako: Sewer Gators.
Doremi Sweet: The Russian Sleep Experiment.
Komachi Onozuka: The Grim Reaper.
Rin Satsuki: Kidney Theft.

Wow, there are a LOT of Urban Legends... Could be fun to find one by one Urban Legends that can fit all of the Touhou characters.
I don't think the headless horseman and the grim reaper are urban legends, but more of horror story "celebrities."

But then, Futo and Kasen's are based on horror stories rather than actual urban legends...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 15, 2016, 04:33:24 pm
Personally I think that it's demonstrable across so many of the games that no one route is "canon" and that each (good) ending yields something of value that often continues into future works, so I find all of this "which routes are canon" business a silly waste of time.

And I agree with that, don't know why your post sounds so rude.
I was just shedding some light on the Seiran/Ringo case, never wanted to start any sort of "what's canon and what's not" debate. Even ZUN makes jokes around this.

Was this topic really that discussed on older forum posts?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 16, 2016, 03:42:46 am
Just clarifying I knew you agreed and wasn't trying to argue at you at all lol, I just quoted for context
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: UTW on December 16, 2016, 07:29:52 pm
If there are more characters in the game, and if they can still use Urban Legends. Then, there are a lot of characters that could fit them perfectly fine.

...

Well, maybe an Urban Legend that have to do with possessions or disappearances? Though, I don't know about a single one that had to do with flowers and possessions at the same time...

Maybe zombies? As in the classic zombie of Haitian or Louisiana voodoo origin. The origins of which are thought to be a type of "possession" brought on by temporary paralyzation, suggestion or hypnotism and such through medicines from flowers like Datura stramonium which cause amnesia. And there have been plenty of myths about villagers who disappear or are thought to be dead only to show up later.

It's sort of stepping on Seiga and Yoshika's toes, but maybe being a westernized necromancer voodoo type would make them distinct from Seiga. Could even just use Seiga herself. Or have it lead to Damballa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damballa), as long as ZUN is encompassing more world myth.


Sanae: School ghost stories, possibly Glad you didnt turn on the lights?

I like to think Sanae has/is her own urban legend on the outside. Find a generic disappeared schoolgirl urban legend to use...but wait, it's revealed to be about Sanae.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Kirin no Sora on December 16, 2016, 09:29:26 pm
Rin Satsuki: Kidney Theft.

First off, what's the urban legend behind "Kidney Theft"? Second, what does that have to do with Rin Satsuki?



Also, if "tsuki" is the pun here...

Rin Satsuki confirmed as final boss?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 16, 2016, 10:12:12 pm
First off, what's the urban legend behind "Kidney Theft"? Second, what does that have to do with Rin Satsuki?

Also, if "tsuki" is the pun here...

Rin Satsuki confirmed as final boss?

Oops! Sorry, wrong Rin! I mean Rin Kaenbyou. I kinda have a problem with the surnames of those two. Why didn't anybody tell me until now?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 16, 2016, 10:14:12 pm
I like to think Sanae has/is her own urban legend on the outside.

ooo i like this
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 17, 2016, 04:15:18 am
I figured it out! it's all Tewi!

beware though, this ultimate fool proof theory is quite heavy on spoiler tag

You see where i'm going? Tewi use the power of Bamboo Forest of the Lost!
With some tweak, she make an individual "lost sight" of where their "being" was supposed to be.
The "lost individual" then unconsciously attempt to find a way to go back into their "being", the "gate".
The tweaked power of Bamboo Forest of the Lost, again, messess with the "lost individual", leading them to the wrong "gate", the "gate" that are belong to another "lost individual".
And by doing the same thing to another individual, the two "lost individual" swapped "being".........

Of course it's not Tewi power alone, she use an urban legend from outside world, a power, an urban legend, that Tewi received from her secret long time acquaintance who had collected them on hidden agenda, Yukarin Yakumon, and THAT urban legend IS Gensokyo, which at it's core is the Law of Idle and Balance.
Out of that, Tewi make concept of Equal Exchange, or something like that, a concept which is acceptable to the Law of Idle & Balance. Channelling that concept to the basic principle of Bamboo Forest of the Lost, resulting Equality of Exchange "Between the Lost Being".......(im not savvy at these reference based Spellcard Name, so it came out dull, sorry)
Tewi got herself an "getting in the nerve of everyone" inaba. almost. ultimate. troll. tool. MkII..........

And of course this is all just Tewi experimental stage of "getting in the nerve of the moon" operations......

Perfect Possession is merely a code for Tewi attempt to "perfect" her "possession" on the power

Lunatic arc are yet to over......
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 17, 2016, 06:22:58 am
Oookay, one question though... why? She's already live a thousand year (Million if you count the White Hare of Inaba), without anything stopping her way, and she's smart enough not to mess with the moon nilly willy. She's the type that would contend with the present and follow the nature order, so why would she mess everything up for her and her kin for that?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 17, 2016, 08:04:17 am
Foolish impure mortals! the answer lies within that question itself!
Bratty as she maybe, she already lived so long, enough to wisely recognize who her enemy, her threat. She had attained enough intelligence to preserve her kin current state of peacefulness without being a total sinner as a beings who live in Gensokyo, that is, sparking "Incidents". By poking the idleness of current balance of existence, while bearing the name of her kin, youkai rabbit of earth, she will free her kin from the sin of "not-contributing to the great flow of fear & faith", solidifying their place in the "Foundation of Gensoukyo".

You are right, she will without a doubt at the end will be messed up. The great Hakurei Shrine Maiden will definitely mess her up. But that is just a common fragment to the great flow of fear & faith. As the very essence that make the Foundation of Gensokyo, will remain true to it's absoluteness (though i never mention something about it being absolute before), Law of Idle & Balance, will re-establish them to their former state of idle & balance, peace. One incident are merely another common trigerring force that help preserve the perfect spinning wheel of fantasy in stable & constant motion yet again once more.

quite a bullshit
to be honest, my initial idea was different, but as i tend to easily forgotten what i was about to type, it just somehow ended up like this, so i thought "well".......

p.s. that "impure" part rather rude, i apologize
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 17, 2016, 10:27:10 am
It's okay, we're all impure mortals in the eyes of something.  And aside from it's being a joke, the next title is Antinomy of Common Flower, and an Antinomy usually used to point out that there's no such thing as an absolute.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 17, 2016, 11:31:51 am
Aight one more idea
Nue: Area 51
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 17, 2016, 12:14:17 pm
Nue already has the urban legend of the bull's head, although it was extinguished by Reimu.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 17, 2016, 01:09:38 pm
Nue already has the urban legend of the bull's head, although it was extinguished by Reimu.
But, that would fit keine?
And i think you mean the Cow Head story??

Edit:
Ok here's another one
Parsee: Inokashira Park Curse (or any other curse story)
Suika(?): Cursed Kleenex Commercial ( i don't know, i heard the commercial had a oni)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 17, 2016, 02:20:49 pm

But, that would fit keine?
And i think you mean the Cow Head story??
You're just looking stuff up on wikipedia lol. It's the same thing. Read Forbidden Scrollery 30+31.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 17, 2016, 02:36:39 pm
You're just looking stuff up on wikipedia lol.

Lmao no i looked it up on a urban legend site :^))) i only look stuff on wikipedia to do a scientific(tm) research


ok just for one more
like uhh
u h h h
hhhh

daruma-san will be,,,,
like uhh
the uhh

Seiga??? don't ask me she was the first thing that came to my mind--
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on December 18, 2016, 03:42:42 am
ok just for one more
like uhh
u h h h
hhhh

daruma-san will be,,,,
like uhh
the uhh

Seiga??? don't ask me she was the first thing that came to my mind--


Daruma-san isn't even an urban legend... *facepalm* You're not putting any effort in your posts, are you?

Also, can you write in normal text size? Some people strain their eyes just to read your tiny texts.

Guys, how about Jack The Ripper? That guy is a mystery, and has been for many years, and still is today. He's so infamous, nearly every country in the modern world knows about him, including Japan. Seems very fitting as Sakuya's occult, even though I gave it to Yumeko in one of my topics.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 18, 2016, 05:14:00 am
Daruma-san isn't even an urban legend... *facepalm* You're not putting any effort in your posts, are you?

Also, can you write in normal text size? Some people strain their eyes just to read your tiny texts.

Guys, how about Jack The Ripper? That guy is a mystery, and has been for many years, and still is today. He's so infamous, nearly every country in the modern world knows about him, including Japan. Seems very fitting as Sakuya's occult, even though I gave it to Yumeko in one of my topics.

Except Jack the Ripper isn't an urban legend, but an actual person.  It's just that people don't know his true identity and what happened to him in the end.

Though considering how Futo and Kasen's urban legends are actually horror stories, I wouldn't be surprised if he still gets counted.

And please, Nebulae, use larger font size!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 18, 2016, 06:20:54 am
Except Jack the Ripper isn't an urban legend, but an actual person.  It's just that people don't know his true identity and what happened to him in the end.
One could argue that the legends surrounding Jack the Ripper are what elevates him to urban legend status.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 18, 2016, 06:27:06 am
Daruma-san isn't even an urban legend... *facepalm* You're not putting any effort in your posts, are you?

You could say that without being rude, yeah? im not the best at this kind of stuff, y'know.
by the way..i'm talking about the daruma-san ritual, which IS a urban legend.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Helepolis on December 18, 2016, 10:12:26 am
A small reminder to everyone in this topic:
- Please stay nice, heated debates are fine as long as you don't get personal
- Avoid double/triple/etc-posting. Please use the edit button
- Format your posts normal please, unless formatting serves a purpose (like joking, highlighting, etc). Using hip colours, fontsizes or font-types to post regular only makes it harder to read for everyone. I am not going to police on this, but I expect people to use common sense.

Aight, carry on.  :]
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 18, 2016, 06:40:15 pm
I just realized the daruma-san ritual could fit mima, which is never going to appear haha, because evil ghosts n' stuff.
Title: ;) :* ! A Merry,Holy Christmas and Life to you all ! :* ;)
Post by: Branneg Xy on December 19, 2016, 08:09:15 pm
I figured it out! it's all Tewi!

beware though, this ultimate fool proof theory is quite heavy on spoiler tag

You see where i'm going? Tewi use the power of Bamboo Forest of the Lost!
With some tweak, she make an individual "lost sight" of where their "being" was supposed to be.
The "lost individual" then unconsciously attempt to find a way to go back into their "being", the "gate".
The tweaked power of Bamboo Forest of the Lost, again, messess with the "lost individual", leading them to the wrong "gate", the "gate" that are belong to another "lost individual".
And by doing the same thing to another individual, the two "lost individual" swapped "being".........

Of course it's not Tewi power alone, she use an urban legend from outside world, a power, an urban legend, that Tewi received from her secret long time acquaintance who had collected them on hidden agenda, Yukarin Yakumon, and THAT urban legend IS Gensokyo, which at it's core is the Law of Idle and Balance.
Out of that, Tewi make concept of Equal Exchange, or something like that, a concept which is acceptable to the Law of Idle & Balance. Channelling that concept to the basic principle of Bamboo Forest of the Lost, resulting Equality of Exchange "Between the Lost Being".......(im not savvy at these reference based Spellcard Name, so it came out dull, sorry)
Tewi got herself an "getting in the nerve of everyone" inaba. almost. ultimate. troll. tool. MkII..........

And of course this is all just Tewi experimental stage of "getting in the nerve of the moon" operations......

Perfect Possession is merely a code for Tewi attempt to "perfect" her "possession" on the power

Lunatic arc are yet to over......
EDIT! [CHRISTmas Title! my Reply is Lenghty and Detailed so you can read piece by piece if you are so inclined,Thanks!] ->"This story is about those who keep watch on Perfect Possession, those who exploit it, those unwittingly dragged into it, and those working to expose the threat behind it...
Those who have made the mistake of seeing themselves as the strongest duo. This is a bittersweet story about them" A strange phenomenon called "Perfect Possession" is taking place. A phenomenon where one is taken over by a completely different person, not only in mind, but also in body. But have no worry: Reimu is already on her way to investigate the cause behind its occurrence...<-https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Antinomy_of_Common_Flowers

"The strongest duo have joined forces."
"Something bad may be in store for us humans."
"An opponent impossible to defeat by anybody alone?"
Sure thing We will be seeing and be having a good time thanks to ZUN/Twilight Frontier more joined Collab holding our patience and imagination to an extent to avoid iring or burning out. our just side of Speculation Fuel careful either not to irk or  burn out. Story-wise the fighters are improving in depth and intrigue,span of arc although the STG still  bear future Development and Potential almost always even when Zun stated Touhou is not that story-based(opposed to Visual Novel trend from JP-Asia) in https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom_interview_with_ZUN .Yours indeed  Intriguing regarding "Swapping and Gate of the Being" but too much complicated forTH  Story-Layout in a non visual Novel/Manga Style...Yet you might be on to Some Good Potential with  Tewi and the Youkai Earth Rabbits but also other factions(>>Please enjoy Reading Forbidden Scrollery from around vol.33 and Above and Wild Horned Hermit at the end of Tankobon/Volume 6 and Up<<).Earth Rabbit is kind-of Reisen  Confirmed8from IN,Cage of Lunatic Runagate to FS) more loyal to Lunarian Eientei than Tewi and co.(not that they are disloyal but with"their own agenda")  .Food for thought on the roster and relations to this "antinomy Urban Legend"(as pointed out here before) https://www.britannica.com/topic/antinomy :re-imagined in TH style during ULiL-LoLk Arc might point out to the appearance of seemingly forced to cope or gain,etc. in the incident ."Sweet" because there is an overwhelming competition and continuos complementing each other as "Strong Duos"bitter because this is a succor for the mastermind and any  "interloper" and particular ending  (Reimu/Marisa and Kasen/Mamizou Mokou and...Kaguya?Or..Wriggle??? ). Four categories ,more if we consider a likely Big Truth Reveal at the End, for this Incident...We can kind-of sort out various teams or duos with these hints tossing in new,promised or not, and renewed characters...An Occult Rumour taking shape through fear in the Villagers Heart through Occult Balls Misuse as a New source of power with the Gates being the Characters of ULiL...
New "Youkai in a Broad sense" coming into existence or  power-hungry one or a Transformation;those who were vulnerable and  and inexperienced enough  with "a Sort of Ghost Haunting The User Known or Unknown to her".  :getdown: The Game Features AND Core Mechanics must deal with Antinomy, Perfect Possession  Common Flowers- Such Themes such InklingsBeing specific,speculative specificeh:"Fixed Duos in every mode" but many different through a customization through various "(Im)Perfect Possession on a Tightrope Equilibrium depending on the one using,on the  circumstances ,on what kind of preparation (New Urban Legend  Technique?)". That is only the general Gist,mind you.A wider array of "Switching Duo while fighting" or "Select Duo Switch Combo Before the Fight Starts" is Feasible...Perphaps instead or Fixed or Free-For-All Duos there is a Choice for the Formation Duo among along a Criteria  with some more being unlockable.  :getdown: In the end we are going to see more in order to  learn more while learning morein order  to see more..Thanks :) for reading and sharing,Thanks to Zun(a cheer for his Family  :D!) and the Tasofro Team.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on December 19, 2016, 11:26:07 pm
sorry if i'm doing something wrong, but so when do you guys think any pictures or trailers or gameplay or the like will come out?

as for the release date, i was thinking maybe late june/early july 2017 :0
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on December 20, 2016, 12:53:11 am
I have to wonder...

It has always been the fact of the series that, Shooting or fighting game, the final boss is always a new face (Shoot The Bullet, Double Spoiler and Impossible Spell Cards are exceptions due to being neither genre).
So taking that into account, why do everyone still assume, in WMGs about upcoming games, that the final boss is going to be a previous character, despite all of the games having new faces as final bosses?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TenPlates on December 20, 2016, 01:32:13 am
Why do everyone still assume, in WMGs about upcoming games, that the final boss is going to be a previous character, despite all of the games having new faces as final bosses?

That's pretty simple: Because they want a specifical past character to reappear. Examples; Mima, Yorihime, Toyohime.
Basically, old characters that don't have apparition in any Touhou Modern Game (Shooting or Fighting). And sometimes, characters that they like and haven't appeared in a main or fighting Touhou game (Yuuka comes in mind).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: snowflake247 on December 20, 2016, 02:09:00 am
I have to wonder...

It has always been the fact of the series that, Shooting or fighting game, the final boss is always a new face (Shoot The Bullet, Double Spoiler and Impossible Spell Cards are exceptions due to being neither genre).
So taking that into account, why do everyone still assume, in WMGs about upcoming games, that the final boss is going to be a previous character, despite all of the games having new faces as final bosses?

People are probably thinking about Hisoutensoku, which didn't introduce any new character as final boss, unless you count the fish.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 20, 2016, 02:28:19 am
People are probably thinking about Hisoutensoku, which didn't introduce any new character as final boss, unless you count the fish.
The giant catfish, even if not playable.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Branneg Xy on December 20, 2016, 04:24:00 am
The giant catfish, even if not playable.
...https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Giant_Catfish this Guy's master's https ://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Taisui_Xingjun is still Undefeated according to Meiling's Dream ( Dream Souls  https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Doremy_Sweet by the lore of LoLK and WaaH give more substance to the encounter)... Sorry but there are two more Acting Final Bosses in HST  https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Goliath_Doll (made a Final Boss by Alice ) and https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Suwako_Moriya  the latter being one in Sanae's Route but Playable , we are able to trace her own little Story Mode  through Sanae's Last Stage,Ending plus Suwako's VS Scripts . Perphaps a version of the Final boss , later unlockable in a "story player version "is going to be NPC-Only according to the Villagers' Fearful Rumors of not needing to form a Duo while at the Peak of Power and Experimenting ?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 20, 2016, 11:12:02 am
now this might be very unrelated but???
i had a dream where Aya, Sakuya, Sanae, and Youmu were playables in AoCF??

And they had a finishing attack with Reimu, Marisa, and Reisen where they would wear glasses and shoot at you???
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 20, 2016, 11:18:49 am
...https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Giant_Catfish this Guy's master's https ://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Taisui_Xingjun is still Undefeated according to Meiling's Dream ( Dream Souls  https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Doremy_Sweet by the lore of LoLK and WaaH give more substance to the encounter)... Sorry but there are two more Acting Final Bosses in HST  https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Goliath_Doll (made a Final Boss by Alice ) and https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Suwako_Moriya  the latter being one in Sanae's Route but Playable , we are able to trace her own little Story Mode  through Sanae's Last Stage,Ending plus Suwako's VS Scripts . Perphaps a version of the Final boss , later unlockable in a "story player version "is going to be NPC-Only according to the Villagers' Fearful Rumors of not needing to form a Duo while at the Peak of Power and Experimenting ?
Don't get what you're trying to say...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 20, 2016, 01:20:17 pm
[CHRISTmas Title!  Lenghty and Detailed so you can read piece by piece if you are so inclined,Thanks!] ->"This story is about those who keep watch on Perfect Possession, those who exploit it, those unwittingly dragged into it, and those working to expose the threat behind it...
Those who have made the mistake of se.............................................................
*I snip the quote since it's long......it's on same page anyway......*

Though i failed to properly get a grip on what you're meaning to say, i appreciate your expression toward my post and my rather stupid but undeniably awesome theory because it's made by me. Really, unlike some others here who lack sense of humor and just lame..........
But one thing i'm sure about what to reply is, yeah, at least for the mangas (including Forbidden Scrollery & Wild and Horned Hermit of course) i have read them up to the recent chapter for each title barring the untranslated chapters. But it's not like i would be able to accurately recall every specific remark in there to pick for clue for next game.

Regardless of what is done, you indeed took it very well, after all, great minds think alike. You and i both are among the few who will not be taken by the unsuspecting threat clad in black.
==========================================

As for the rest of you, you have failed to swallow the measly word of a humble man which could have a probability to be actualized as an alteration toward the prearranged prophecy.
Especially you Wind Priest, not only you have failed to valuate the sign of a potential lead that was presented upon you, but your self had also placed faith to the word and act of an pseudo animated delineation substance that you are supposed to fear. The pseudo animated delineation substance, apparition, just like their fondness for traversing the lands of the livings in it's sunless phase, they also fond of charming and misleading the child of adam and eve with their word and act disguised under the shady sunlight of the night, moon.
Wind Priest, and every one of you, rethought and reshape your way of the wind, not only as a priest, but also as animated substance who bestow faith toward deities and project fear to the apparitions. Apparition word and apparent act are not made to be faithful toward the wellbeing of us humans.
=====
====

*return to speak normally*
admittedly, mine is not the "best grammar" out there, i still got comment saying my english needs work on occasion, i'm aware thank you very much, don't make fun of me please.
And since i can't actually put my finger on what Branneg Xy-san trying to deliver, i just decided to made up some pointless nonsense that looks cool and definitely not annoying.
at least i'm not someone who brag about their fondness toward buckets in a glorious manner
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 20, 2016, 01:54:02 pm
TBH, his comment look like someone forgot to press the Enter key...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on December 20, 2016, 09:07:22 pm
now this might be very unrelated but???
i had a dream where Aya, Sakuya, Sanae, and Youmu were playables in AoCF??

And they had a finishing attack with Reimu, Marisa, and Reisen where they would wear glasses and shoot at you???

huh... that's really interesting! let's keep that in mind tew see which parts of it come true !  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 21, 2016, 12:59:04 am
huh... that's really interesting! let's keep that in mind tew see which parts of it come true !  :3

I want to see those characters actually!!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on December 21, 2016, 02:11:25 am
So, this game is going to put emphasis on characters that were never being playable in a fighting game before. (Or even if I'm wrong, these characters never appeared in a fighting spin-off).
So, I decided to make a quick list for everybody. Especially if you have trouble reminding yourself of names. I also excluded canon characters with poor to no fighting abilities (ex.: fairies (except Clownpiece), Kosuzu, Rinnosuke...) or characters that never meant to be anything (ie. Daiyousei, Koakuma, etc.)

Rumia
Flandre Scarlet
Letty Whiterock
Chen
Lyrica Prismriver
Lunasa Prismriver
Merlin Prismriver
Ran Yakumo
Wriggle Nightbug
Mystia Lorelei
Keine Kamishirawawa
Tewi Inaba
Eirin Yagokoro
Kaguya Houraisen
Medecine Melancholy
Yuuka Kazami
Eiki Shiki
Shizuha Aki
Minoriko Aki
Hina Kagiyama
Momiji Inubashiri
Sanae Kochiya
Kanako Yasaka
Suwako Moriya
Kisume
Yamame Kurodani
Parsee Mizuhashi
Yuugi Hoshiguma
Satori Komeiji
Rin Kaenbyou
Utsuho Reiuji
Nazrin
Kogasa Tatara
Minamitsu Murasa
Shou Toramaru
Nue Houjuu
Hatate Himekaidou
Kyouko Kasodani
Yoshika Miyako
Seiga Kaku
Soga no Tojiko
Sekibanki
Kagerou Imaizumi
Benben Tsukumo
Yatsuhashi Tsukumo
Seija Kijin
Raiko Horikawa
Seiran
Ringo
Doremy Sweet
Sagume Kishin
Clownpiece
Junko
Hecatia Lapislazuli
Watatsuki no Toyohime
Watatsuki no Yorihime

Yuugi never appeared as a playable character in a fighting game. Let that sink in.
Also, I consider Clowpiece strong enough as a fairy to be worth playing. Cirno isn't though.

Feel free to let me know if I made a mistake (I'm sure I made one somewhere).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TheTeff007 on December 21, 2016, 02:59:50 am
Sanae, Suwako and Okuu were in Soku. Other than that, wasn't Clownpiece power due to the fact she was empowered with Junko power? Unless she still is, I bet she is as strong as other fairies, maybe more. That is not me implying I don't want her on the fighters, on the contrary. Just wondering
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 21, 2016, 03:45:43 pm
I wonder if the "strongest two" thing will create teams based on compatibility between abilities or similar traits, rather than actually being the strongest?
Also, maybe one of the characters in the team is just a supporter like Sanae's assists in Soku, the abilties in SA, or the familiars in IN? This would give ZUN and Tasofro the chance to use any character without having to make all of them fully playable, except giving them some dialogue.


Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on December 22, 2016, 12:04:45 am
Hmm, that's possible. There could be a list of playable characters and a list of assists, instead of outright tag team.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 22, 2016, 02:04:35 am
Sanae, Suwako and Okuu were in Soku. Other than that, wasn't Clownpiece power due to the fact she was empowered with Junko power? Unless she still is, I bet she is as strong as other fairies, maybe more. That is not me implying I don't want her on the fighters, on the contrary. Just wondering
I'm sure it was said she's the strongest of all the fairies in the series.  Given the place she comes from, it makes sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on December 22, 2016, 06:33:21 am
So, this game is going to put emphasis on characters that were never being playable in a fighting game before. (Or even if I'm wrong, these characters never appeared in a fighting spin-off).
So, I decided to make a quick list for everybody. Especially if you have trouble reminding yourself of names. I also excluded canon characters with poor to no fighting abilities (ex.: fairies (except Clownpiece), Kosuzu, Rinnosuke...) or characters that never meant to be anything (ie. Daiyousei, Koakuma, etc.)

Rumia
Flandre Scarlet
Letty Whiterock
Chen
Lyrica Prismriver
Lunasa Prismriver
Merlin Prismriver
Ran Yakumo
Wriggle Nightbug
Mystia Lorelei
Keine Kamishirawawa
Tewi Inaba
Eirin Yagokoro
Kaguya Houraisen
Medecine Melancholy
Yuuka Kazami
Eiki Shiki
Shizuha Aki
Minoriko Aki
Hina Kagiyama
Momiji Inubashiri
Sanae Kochiya
Kanako Yasaka
Suwako Moriya
Kisume
Yamame Kurodani
Parsee Mizuhashi
Yuugi Hoshiguma
Satori Komeiji
Rin Kaenbyou
Utsuho Reiuji
Nazrin
Kogasa Tatara
Minamitsu Murasa
Shou Toramaru
Nue Houjuu
Hatate Himekaidou
Kyouko Kasodani
Yoshika Miyako
Seiga Kaku
Soga no Tojiko
Sekibanki
Kagerou Imaizumi
Benben Tsukumo
Yatsuhashi Tsukumo
Seija Kijin
Raiko Horikawa
Seiran
Ringo
Doremy Sweet
Sagume Kishin
Clownpiece
Junko
Hecatia Lapislazuli
Watatsuki no Toyohime
Watatsuki no Yorihime

Yuugi never appeared as a playable character in a fighting game. Let that sink in.
Also, I consider Clowpiece strong enough as a fairy to be worth playing. Cirno isn't though.

Feel free to let me know if I made a mistake (I'm sure I made one somewhere).

In terms of roster characters, I would like to say the complete cast of ULiL (including Reisen) will appear in this game. But considering the game sets between LoLK and yet to be announced 16th main game, we can expect some of LoLK cast will appear in this game; such as Doremy, Sagume, Clownpiece, Junko and Hecatia. Sagume in particular will involved in this incident, considering all the mess during ULiL was her fault. Granted, she doesn't want to involve some of Gensokyo inhabitants until she had no choice but to spark the Urban Legend clash, and in Reimu's final scenario, she secretly using Sumireko as a proxy to regain Lunar Capital Occult Orb to allow Lunarians escape from Junko's wrath. But things become less interesting without one or two newcomers join the party, with one or both newcomers will be the perpetrator of the incident. Apart from that, we can expect some veterans like Sakuya, Youmu, or Sanae will appear too. Just like HM with Ichirin, Nitori and Koishi; and ULiL with Kasen and Mokou, we can expect another minor character will join the party in AoCF. Who knows if some minor characters like Yuuka or Keine will involved? Well, only time will tell.

Hmm, that's possible. There could be a list of playable characters and a list of assists, instead of outright tag team.

Regardless if its an outright tag team or one versus one with assist, it's about pair versus pair after all.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Reu on December 23, 2016, 12:57:14 am
Who would be the strongest duo, from the villagers's point of view?
I mean, aren't those lines coming from them?



Part of me wants someone from pc98 to return, just someone though.
Just because it would be interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 23, 2016, 03:41:57 am
Part of me wants someone from pc98 to return, just someone though.
Just because it would be interesting.
Orange, she is finally freed after being sealed away by Reimu for a long time. :P
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 23, 2016, 10:28:37 am
Who would be the strongest duo, from the villagers's point of view?
I mean, aren't those lines coming from them?
The Dragon God should be one of the two, then?
The second one might be one of those youkai or individuals that no human (including the not-so-normal ones) should be able to compete with.
Honestly, there are too many characters with superpowerful abilities to actually decide without falling into a infinite power level debate. Of course, i don't expect them to know about Hecatia or even Yorihime as individuals.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on December 23, 2016, 05:48:40 pm
Another completly unrelated topic.

I'm pretty hyped for AoFC you don't know how
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on December 24, 2016, 12:23:42 am
The Dragon God should be one of the two, then?
The second one might be one of those youkai or individuals that no human (including the not-so-normal ones) should be able to compete with.
Honestly, there are too many characters with superpowerful abilities to actually decide without falling into a infinite power level debate. Of course, i don't expect them to know about Hecatia or even Yorihime as individuals.

Oo, Dragon God in a form of little girl, i like that idea. But i don't think gensokyo ready yet.

edit : could it be........ Rin Satsuki are actually the Dragon God!? you know, like how chinese dragon and qillin are relatives.......
or
Rin Satsuki is the daughter of the Dragon God! and now this is her tale of how she ascend from a qillin to become the Ryujin II !
Holy sh*t! the resurrection of circle-cut-exclusive, butchered character!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on December 24, 2016, 04:11:27 am
Oo, Dragon God in a form of little girl, i like that idea. But i don't think gensokyo ready yet.

edit : could it be........ Rin Satsuki are actually the Dragon God!? you know, like how chinese dragon and qillin are relatives.......
or
Rin Satsuki is the daughter of the Dragon God! and now this is her tale of how she ascend from a qillin to become the Ryujin II !
Holy sh*t! the resurrection of circle-cut-exclusive, butchered character!

[why are you so cute]

hmmm... i wonder how rin's gameplay would play out, given that we are pretending that she somehow returns which i very highly doubt.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Helepolis on December 24, 2016, 10:35:07 am
How is a character going to return who has never appeared?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on December 24, 2016, 08:51:11 pm
How is a character going to return who has never appeared?

ZUN could potentially use her for something since she was unused in EoSD. i doubt he will, but i can't deny that there's a chance, even though it's miniscule, of it happening.

i was just wondering how Rin would play out as a character if she was in a fighting game, ability wise and gameplay wise  :smokedcheese:
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Komeiji11 on December 25, 2016, 05:53:11 am
Hmm... Maybe I'm way off base with this but I've been thinking about the past few Touhou games and noticed they all had something to with "identity"

HM: Kokoro awakening her self-identity as a youkai
DDC: Weak youkai trying to cast off that identity and attain ones with more strength and prestige
ISC: Seija reaffirming her identity as an Amanojaku through-and-through
ULiL: Characters adopting urban legends closely aligned with their identities
LoLK: This one's kind of iffy but it seemed to be making the distinction between Lunarians and Earthlings clearer, or maybe even the 3 worlds of Hecatia, and then there's Reisen who now considers herself an Earth Rabbit

And now there's antinomy and possession, a mixing and replacing of two different but somehow merging personalities. I don't know I thought it was something worth thinking about...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 25, 2016, 08:57:50 am
Identity is a fundamental part of a youkai's existence (you might say it is their existence), so it's no coincidence that themes of identity (of youkai specifically) show up all over the place.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 25, 2016, 09:32:02 am
Every game of Touhou is about identity one way or another though. That's kinda the point of Spell Card fight, and of Youkai in general.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on December 25, 2016, 09:33:45 am
Does anyone here talk about the gameplay features?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 25, 2016, 09:41:03 am
And we can't really talk about it if even the demo isn't out yet. So yeah...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 25, 2016, 09:44:56 am
The game has nearly no information released about it, most of which is ambiguous-Touhou-plot-introduction. All we can tell is that the Occult system is continuing in some form and the ULiL characters are playable.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Maple on December 25, 2016, 09:50:24 am
Who would be the strongest duo, from the villagers's point of view?
I mean, aren't those lines coming from them?

The Dragon God should be one of the two, then?
The second one might be one of those youkai or individuals that no human (including the not-so-normal ones) should be able to compete with.
Honestly, there are too many characters with superpowerful abilities to actually decide without falling into a infinite power level debate. Of course, i don't expect them to know about Hecatia or even Yorihime as individuals.

What if that hypothetical character isn't actually one of the higher tiers of power levels, but rather someone that intentionally spreads rumors about her own strength?

Quote
"The strongest two have joined forces."
"Something bad might be in store for us humans."
"An opponent who cannot be bested by anybody alone?"
Ludicrous rumors are circulating, seemingly out of the fear in human villagers' hearts.

If i where to make a guess of who would create rumors for their benefit, uh, huh, Seiga and Kogasa? Those are the first that come to mind, the first because of personality and the probably tag-team/assist character gameplay could do something with Yoshika, and the other because of her bread-and-butter of scaring people.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on December 25, 2016, 01:52:05 pm
If Kogasa ended up being a character that would be amazing, both because I'd play the shit out of her and also because pfft wow.

It's possible the final boss won't end up being the rumored strongest duo (and is moreso just responsible for the incident itself), I suppose. The thought that the duo is actually only RUMORED to be incredibly strong, therefore using the urban legend incident to make them so, is interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Komeiji11 on December 25, 2016, 04:08:29 pm
I suppose what I meant was that there seems to have been more of an emphasis on identity in more recent games. Yes, you can find these things in the other games but they never really played a story role until now. 6-9, incident happens from some big bad with some type of motivation, Reimu solves it. 9 is the only exception to this. 10-13.5, religious arc that focused more on that religious sects making their way into Gensoukyou and their "incidents." Really nothing threatening was going on but our heroes thought it was strange and investigated. And from 13.5 to now someone's idea of identity plays some big role in the stories. I don't mean like Remy is a vampire so she does vampire things, but that someone is trying to change/discover/come to terms with their identity and that's where my previous post came from.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on December 25, 2016, 07:29:53 pm
hey, hey, i've been meaning tew ask this. sorry for changing the topic so much.

but, do you guys think, that, maybe, just maybe... they would of fixed the netplay issues this time? and had it at least as good as the netplay that soku has? that's my biggest concern with this game. i really hope that it doesn't have terrible netplay this time.

also, happy holidays!! please have a good day and be safe.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on December 25, 2016, 08:55:40 pm
All we can tell is that the Occult system is continuing in some form and the ULiL characters are playable.

The Occult system? But aren't the occult balls gone?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: legwan-w-spioszkach on December 25, 2016, 09:31:20 pm
Heh, a new game has been announced long ago and I didn't comment on it. Oh well.

From the go I'll say that I don't like fighting games. At all. It's a cliched, ignorant disinterest simply because I don't play them. I guess that's the opinion of the most shmup players, and vice versa, fighting game players don't mind shmup at all. Yeah, Touhou should stick to a single genre. HONEST OPINION.
From what have been announced I suspect that there will be some stasus quo shakeup, but probably a minor one. I have to watch the events of the game due to myself writing Touhou game concepts that are actually supposed to fit canon chronology somewhat, and that the 2017 canon game have possibilities to null some things.

And for wishful thinking, I hope to see Parsee playable - simply because her canon appearance is limited. And, for some reason, Prismrivers - they are mostly forgotten nowadays and their appearance would be flat-out funny. Haha.
And no Mima. Unless radically redesigned to be a new character overall. Yeah, I would like to see Windows!Mima as a practically new character.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Marron on December 25, 2016, 09:44:37 pm
And for wishful thinking, I hope to see Parsee playable - simply because her canon appearance is limited. And, for some reason, Prismrivers - they are mostly forgotten nowadays and their appearance would be flat-out funny. Haha.
And no Mima. Unless radically redesigned to be a new character overall. Yeah, I would like to see Windows!Mima as a practically new character.

Ah, please, don't talk about Parsee, I've succeeded to maintain my brain to think that she will never be playable, it helps me to deal with the pain. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: legwan-w-spioszkach on December 25, 2016, 11:15:08 pm
Parsee with coarse language, intimid behaviour and true jealousy in place of somewhat odd talks that were included in SA back in 2008.
Given they being retconned with how the actual jealousy demons would cry would be neat B).
It would be actually quite in-canon. Powerful persons like Yuugi, Yuyuko or Eiki have little desire and/or need to come in and kick heroines' asses, while underpowered-but-civilised youkai like Wriggle, Letty or Sekibanki would look out-of-place beating everyone down the road.
Parsee, however, would be perfect. No real sense about how Gensokyo - or any civilization, for that matter - works, and a huge story potential that would be more or less impossible to replicate with any other character.

But, again, I said i won't play fighting games :V.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 26, 2016, 03:09:30 am
The Occult system? But aren't the occult balls gone?
System was the wrong word, sorry if that was misleading; it's just that at the core of AoCF is the continuation of the unresolved urban legend incident, so that's one of the only other leads you'd have to the mechanics. The mechanics haven't even been solidified yet, as ZUN has said during the Play,Doujin party. Unabara then joked that it's because ZUN would discuss the system with them while they drank and say "this is nice, I like it" but then at the next meeting go "never mind it's bad after all".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 26, 2016, 07:27:40 am
What if that hypothetical character isn't actually one of the higher tiers of power levels, but rather someone that intentionally spreads rumors about her own strength?

If i where to make a guess of who would create rumors for their benefit, uh, huh, Seiga and Kogasa? Those are the first that come to mind, the first because of personality and the probably tag-team/assist character gameplay could do something with Yoshika, and the other because of her bread-and-butter of scaring people.
Problem is neither of them are major enough to play big roles.  It's more plausible to think of more important characters in the series.  I remember when someone thought Rin (from SA) would be the main antagonist, or a major one, of TD, because one of the stages take place in a cemetery, so the plot involves Rin digging up corpse and letting lose divine spirits as a result...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on December 26, 2016, 06:27:57 pm
Seiga literally had her own game, and was a stage 5 boss (and plot-wise was sort of more important than the stage 6 boss, being the actual mastermind), so she's definitely "major" enough to get a role like semifinal fight in a fighter. Of course, the final boss will be new, because this isn't just an expansion pack like 12.3 where we fought Suwako and Alice as final bosses instead.

Seiga spreading a rumor about herself to gain power sounds like exactly what she'd do and reasonable enough to happen, so I wouldn't be surprised if she's in the fighter. Oh god, a reversed movement status effect attack...


edit:oh.

oh.

seiga/seija AUGH AUGH AUGH
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: legwan-w-spioszkach on December 26, 2016, 06:54:59 pm
seiga/seija

I would like to see them team up.
No, really.
and Aoki for good measure
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Marron on December 26, 2016, 08:43:44 pm
I would like to see them team up.
No, really.
and Aoki for good measure

Well, the two of them are wicked, it's not like they don't have anything in common.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Maple on December 27, 2016, 05:58:36 pm
You know, if there were rumors about Seija being a powerful individual, i suppose that then she would try to be a contrarian (as usual), and make herself really weak, below generic Fairy-tier.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Branneg Xy on December 29, 2016, 05:35:03 am
Don't get what you're trying to say...
(SMALL EDIT)I am very sorry  :smokedcheese: to have left replies unattended . My brief post(text from Prologue of https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Antinomy_of_Common_Flowers ) "An opponent impossible to defeat by anybody alone?""Ludicrous rumors are circulating, seemingly out of the fear in human villagers' hearts" The gist of it  all (previous at https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=posthistory;topic=20471.0;msg=1305221) is that a Powerful(or Empowered by Rumours or Aided by them) SINGLE VERSION FINAL BOSS(ES?) which are not meant for players could possibly give to PROTAGONIST DUOS New Approaches depending on how one handles the Final Battles and the Investigative Battles .New approaches MIGHT include a  playable-in-story   DIFFERENT VERSION OF THE FINAL BOSS(ES?) that would be in a pair with another or more likely alone but as if she was in one;remember my fallacy is: it all lays on the New Gameplay and on  most of the Cause and Consequences of the Incident.However a sort of basis for it is noticeable from UNL/Soku ....Perpetrators and Accomplices were to be dealt with during the story in Gensokyo-Style  but in Touhou 12.3 ...  New Developments! !Culprits and Causes,fully or partially, are this time DIFFERENT VERSIONS standing out from from SWR and IaMP : version 2 "Overwhelming NPC Final Boss" and  version 1 "Challenging mostly-Regular Boss"( Giant Catfish,Goliath Doll/ Suwako and Utsuho ) .Moving on from UNL/Soku to Hopeless Masquerade and to  TH 15.5/AoCM please notice the New Development  of  Perpetrator and Accomplice(Culprits and Causes) from NPC TO PLAYABLE STORY MODE alongside New Developments on the gameplay mechanics.

This lenghty one to MANoBadAssGar,to whom I give thanks  8) for his post and appreciation , was taking its time to EDIT  https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=posthistory;topic=20471.0;msg=1304986  but I did not write an EDIT warning8I will get to it) seeing that is possible to notice it at the bottom of each post.In fact it is  :wikipedia: fan theorizing,analysis and comparison  with lots of cross-checking, cross-references from Touhou Canon ,very advisable to read piece by piece -> [CHRISTmas Title!  Lenghty and Detailed so you can read piece by piece if you are so inclined,Thanks!]

edit:
--->>> An observation new for me but presented way before me in this topic:  Hecatia and Junko are the first and  only "Final Boss" Duo ,they are just right before Touhou 15.5,Reisen (PS4 Urban Legends in Limbo) Story Mode has vague hints tying to them from Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom... Other ties,even more interesting and solid :dragonforce: : Printworks of Forbidden Scrollery but also Wild and Horned Hermit ,as long we read and compare those that  were a Prologue or Post-Story /In-Beetween to the Urban Legends an Lunatic Legacy ... a Template for the Mechanics and Story by Zun is possible,at least generic details;by the way,  discoveries around and more AoCF are able to be made a mite easier: Zun  kindly gave us  new directions and insights .Sweet!Sweeter: artists who have collaborated (oooh    :P! at the New Improved-Style Covers)or are have a bond.Where?  https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World.A new topic for the Official magazine is already here in the forum to participate.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 29, 2016, 10:19:07 am
Well, the two of them are wicked, it's not like they don't have anything in common.
Wicked hermit is more of a title for Seiga.  She doesn't cause large-scaled chaos and trouble like Seija, at least to the point where she becomes wanted.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Marron on December 29, 2016, 10:57:31 am
I wasn't saying she caused some kind of massive chaos. But using a dead corpse as a bodyguard is still wicked, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Branneg Xy on December 29, 2016, 11:33:03 am
Sanae, Suwako and Okuu were in Soku. Other than that, wasn't Clownpiece power due to the fact she was empowered with Junko power? Unless she still is, I bet she is as strong as other fairies, maybe more. That is not me implying I don't want her on the fighters, on the contrary. Just wondering
She has the loosely based power req. but not the expertise and knowledge. for AoCF.I'm gonna explain more in detail and there are still other briefer replies,both are nice. On the "empowered by Junko power" you are right  she no longer is in Incident Mode but she was Powerful outside the "Fairy Category" ,being The Hell Fairy/Lamapadae Right-Hand of Hecatia Goddess of "Hell":o .Related amazing read http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_sangetsusei_visionary_fairies_in_shrine/v01/c001/1.html . On Vol.1 The Three fairies of light are positive "She feel  the strongest we have encountered....She could even be a strong as a  Youkai".on Vol.4 her Endurance earned from Hell and....Of course  how Strongly ,Skillfully,with Experience,ecc. one express a Power is a part of the issue too!  in fact,Intervention Award In the vol. 4 is for :D Cirno  not Clownpiece who was left amazed by the novelty and usage  of her "Iced Up" Power giving her all till passing out.This already happened in the past.She was motivated(ref. Fairy Wars mainly but also before it) ;this is a  special once for it is during the 2nd Hottest  :o Summer(1st in EoSD).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession)
Post by: Shadowlupus on January 01, 2017, 05:39:09 pm
This is not entirely related to Touhou 15.5 but from what I have gathered from Touhou 14.5 PS4, the AI has improved considerably. Opponents can shoot, dodge, use spell cards unlike Street Fighter V's sitting duck AI. Still, they don't really put much of a fight. The most disappointing part is that the Arcade Mode lasts only a single round, unlike Vs com or player that you can set the number of rounds, which is not satisfying. You can also set handicap on yourself or com in Vs Com and Vs player, which is nice. Opponent's spell cards in extra mode is harder to dodge and the effects are very impressive. The final boss is much more intense, arguably even more than Sumireko!

With all things considered, this makes me wonder why just now that they make the better AI, more modes and customizable difficulty/handicap. Is it because they just know to implement those? I dunno. Let's hope that Touhou 15.5's gameplay is just like ULiL PS4 but with some improved on the difficulty and rounds.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on January 01, 2017, 10:56:35 pm
I wasn't saying she caused some kind of massive chaos. But using a dead corpse as a bodyguard is still wicked, though.
You can't really be considered wicked or heartless if you're using something that's already dead.  Maybe it's not respecting the dead, but Yoshika is still happy anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on January 07, 2017, 08:27:49 am
hope its not a ps4 exclusive  :ohdear:


it might use a system similar to MvC

judging by the The strongest two have joined forces that or it will do it in the style of Scarlet weather raspady with two new characters one right after the other,


but it might not be new at all zun seems to have started adding characters from the official manga in  so it might be   Watatsuki sisters
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on January 07, 2017, 12:59:02 pm
There hasn't been any cases of ZUN making a statement at one point only to defy it himself at a later time. If he said the Watatsuki Sisters will never appear as bosses, then they're never going to be bosses. He can have either one or both of them as NPCs, but bosses appear to be an option he'll never consider in his lifetime.

Also, experience from how WMGs about the previous game turns out has taught me one thing: No matter how many previous characters are reappearing in a new fighting game, the final boss will always be a new face, or in the case of AoCF, maybe two.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on January 07, 2017, 03:10:03 pm
There hasn't been any cases of ZUN making a statement at one point only to defy it himself at a later time. If he said the Watatsuki Sisters will never appear as bosses, then they're never going to be bosses. He can have either one or both of them as NPCs, but bosses appear to be an option he'll never consider in his lifetime.
Quote from: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Chara%E2%98%86Mel/Mountain_of_Faith_interview_with_ZUN
――: Do you think Sanae will be playable at some point?
ZUN: Not really. It might be hard to pull off since she's a goddess with incredible powers.
Quote from: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_Creators_of_Outer_World/Who%27s_Who_of_Humans_%26_Youkai_in_Gensokyo/Sanae_Kochiya
Sanae is a surprisingly easy to use character. You can throw her into pretty much any situation and it'll turn out well. Because she talks a lot and is full of confidence and backbone, she doesn't blend into the background with other characters. She has elements of both Reimu and Marisa, as well as her own independent personality, so she's especially easy to use. Maybe that's because I originally created her to be Reimu's rival. Reimu doesn't chat much, so Sanae easily covers her share too. When I was making "Mountain of Faith", I was aware from the very beginning that I wanted an easy-to-use character.
:V

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Tiamat on January 07, 2017, 07:05:02 pm
ZUN did say in that old e-mail correspondence way back when that his memory wasn't the best... :P

Just gotta remember that people change their minds (...and misremember things) all the time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on January 08, 2017, 02:10:25 am
There hasn't been any cases of ZUN making a statement at one point only to defy it himself at a later time. If he said the Watatsuki Sisters will never appear as bosses, then they're never going to be bosses. He can have either one or both of them as NPCs, but bosses appear to be an option he'll never consider in his lifetime.

has not been the first time hes changed his mine on something



Also, experience from how WMGs about the previous game turns out has taught me one thing: No matter how many previous characters are reappearing in a new fighting game, the final boss will always be a new face, or in the case of AoCF, maybe two.

Wrong Hitsotensoku had no new characters

and before you say anything about the catfish
that was a dream

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 08, 2017, 06:01:06 am
It's better to say that ZUN tries his best to not say things with absolute certainty or reject possibilities of anything entirely, so there aren't many instances where he ends up seriously contradicting himself. He changes his mind on specific things all the time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shadowlupus on January 08, 2017, 07:41:17 am
I have read somewhere that ZUN said that if any info contradicts each other, the recent ones should be taken into account instead.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 08, 2017, 07:59:14 am
That's talking more about canon. Summers is just talking about things ZUN says about Touhou in general.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on January 08, 2017, 11:52:16 am
this is slightly unrelated tew AoCF, but i had a weird dream last night that PC-98 Alice was confirmed. now with the impossible out of the way unless AoCF involves some weird time reversal or age regression plot, in the dream, the following were also confirmed:

Doremy Sweet
Shou Toramaru
Patchouli Knowledge
Kanako Yasaka
Seiga Kaku and Yoshika Miyako
Minamitsu Murasa
Junko
Clownpiece
Sagume Kishin
Kaguya Houraisan
Eirin Yagokoro
and Reisen Udongein Inaba

who i'd like playable that wasn't in the dream:

Kazami Yuuka
Moriya Suwako
Komeiji Satori
Imaizumi Kagerou
Sekibanki
Hecatia Lapislazuli
Raikou Horikawa
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on January 08, 2017, 01:06:03 pm
this is slightly unrelated tew AoCF, but i had a weird dream last night that PC-98 Alice was confirmed. now with the impossible out of the way unless AoCF involves some weird time reversal or age regression plot, in the dream, the following were also confirmed:

Doremy Sweet
Shou Toramaru
Patchouli Knowledge
Kanako Yasaka
Seiga Kaku and Yoshika Miyako
Minamitsu Murasa
Junko
Clownpiece
Sagume Kishin
Kaguya Houraisan
Eirin Yagokoro
and Reisen Udongein Inaba

rifp i want to see all of those characters actually
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on January 08, 2017, 01:47:57 pm
rifp i want to see all of those characters actually

'rifp'? unless you meant 'rifp' :0
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on January 09, 2017, 01:21:38 am
'rifp'? unless you meant 'rifp' :0


rifp means "Rest in Pieces" but with a f
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: yukiluck on January 09, 2017, 10:23:24 pm
So i was reading the rules of the 13º Touhou poll: http://toho-vote.info/Rule.php
And in the first line i think they mentioned something like we can vote the best partners for AoCF.
Anyone can confirm?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 10, 2017, 04:11:07 am
That's indeed the case. I was intending on making a thread for the poll shortly, so hang on just a bit.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on January 10, 2017, 03:30:10 pm
Even though what i will say is complete speculation and may be made totally irellevant when the game will be released, i like the idea of a Tag Team Fighting game. However, considering the title " Antinomy " i have some of potential ides for the duos, where they are similiar, but also the opposite of each other.

Reimu and Mokou : Well leaving aside ULiL After Story as a connection, both of them got no real purpose in life (Reimu being too carefree, Mokou being immortal), both of them are humans regarded as monsters due to their level of power.

Marisa and Byakuren : Marisa being a brazen human seeking power and immortality through magic, while the other one is a humble magician who already achieved youth and power through magic but, through buddism, try to stay " human " in a way. Also, Byakuren is frendly with youkai while Marisa think that she can't trust them.

Kasen and Miko : The first pretend to be a hermit to meddle with and befriend humans, while the latter became an hermit to overcome her humanity, while both having " darker " sides to their past.

Koishi and Kokoro : Both seek their emotions, Koishi is doing it in a really carefree way (because she can't think of another way anyway) while Kokoro is doing it seriously, in a more "scholar way". Plus, both are archnemesis ( i believe Koishi still has the mask of hope ).

Nitori and Shinmyoumaru : Shinmyoumaru is stated to be quite childish and naïve, so Nitori could trick her into using her mallet for her in exchange of an invention that makes her grow taller ( as she is obsessed with that ). Nitori is also quite Haughty and think herself superior to others, so she seems suited to use the inchling as a mean to gain more power.

Futo and Ichirin/Unzan : They may share , like Alice and Marisa a " bad " relationship, as rivals from the Taoism vs Buddhism feud. They are both underlings of the represent on both religions, as well.

That leaves Reisen alone, as there is 15 characters (Unzan excluded). Whether Reisen will be in AoCF is debatable as she was a PS4 exclusive, so unlike she is paired with another character added to the game (though her general personality don't make me think of a possible duo), i don't have any ideas regarding her.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on January 11, 2017, 07:05:58 am
ZUN did mention that at least one previous character will be brought back in AoCF, so maybe Reisen will be paired with one of said "old faces".

Then again, we don't know if ZUN will pull a fast one and create pairings that none of us would've seen coming...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on January 11, 2017, 07:23:56 am
Then again, we don't know if ZUN will pull a fast one and create pairings that none of us would've seen coming...
This is my prediction as well, TBH. ZUN's a pretty weird guy.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: lolpudding on January 12, 2017, 01:35:00 am
From what I am hearing alot about this game what people have speculated, it would seem rather cool for a tag fighting system to be in the game. When I heard of the title of the game, my first thoughts were Yuuka, Medicine, and Rin Satsuki for some random reason (maybe because one of her spellcards were named "Flower Sign" when people found the game data).

Since this game focuses on previous characters that haven't appeared in the fighting games, I do hope characters that lack any information like Koakuma and Momiji to appear since we barely know much about them besides the fact that they have appeared in a few games.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hourai on January 12, 2017, 08:34:44 am
i've seen quite a few people talk about rin (satsuki) but her appearing in a game sounds like a very, very far off dream...despite that I would love to see her. i really hope I jinx myself by saying she won't appear
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on January 12, 2017, 11:53:42 am
i've seen quite a few people talk about rin (satsuki) but her appearing in a game sounds like a very, very far off dream...despite that I would love to see her. i really hope I jinx myself by saying she won't appear
Y'know, if you were Sagume, you'd have just guaranteed she wouldn't.  :V

I'd like to see Kogasa as well as Medicine and Yuuka, personally~ (And Seiga)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on January 12, 2017, 05:56:59 pm
i've seen quite a few people talk about rin (satsuki)

Seeing satsuki in AoCF would be a wish come true !!

Like, ZUN did not add her in EoSD because of time constraints, but she could be added in any other game,,,
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on January 12, 2017, 07:00:29 pm
I'm propably not the first one to inquire, but what's with people's obsession over a non-existent character?

Even if ZUN went and made Rin Satsuki canon, that wouldn't be the same person that he considered back then and whose original characteristics he surely already used when creating other characters. Especially since her role as a third protagonist is out of the question by now.

A Kirin girl would be a nice concept in general though. I'd rather have her named differently, if to prevent another Udonge/Reisen II problem, however.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hourai on January 12, 2017, 09:00:04 pm
Y'know, if you were Sagume, you'd have just guaranteed she wouldn't.  :V

now that you mention that, i think we need sagume in here to 'confirm' all the characters we want to see in the new game
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on January 12, 2017, 11:04:04 pm
I'm propably not the first one to inquire, but what's with people's obsession over a non-existent character?

Hipsters will be hipsters
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on January 13, 2017, 12:45:45 am
Speaking of which, at least one LoLK character is more or less guranteed to be in the game, right? Any thoughts on who it might be, and what their Urban Legend is?

My first thought was "the switching places thing is a perfect excuse to have Sagume show up, despite her being on the moon." Though Junko and Clownpiece are also super possible, in my head...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on January 13, 2017, 03:57:57 am
From what I am hearing alot about this game what people have speculated, it would seem rather cool for a tag fighting system to be in the game. When I heard of the title of the game, my first thoughts were Yuuka, Medicine, and Rin Satsuki for some random reason (maybe because one of her spellcards were named "Flower Sign" when people found the game data).

Since this game focuses on previous characters that haven't appeared in the fighting games, I do hope characters that lack any information like Koakuma and Momiji to appear since we barely know much about them besides the fact that they have appeared in a few games.
out of the three you listed Rin satsuki is the lest likely to show up i would say even less likely then some of the pc98 characters that are not yuuka alice marisa or reimu showing up in new games .

as for the tag battle system ya from the discription it seems heavly implied that its using it.
honestly with a title like Eastern Flowers of Possession

reminds me of when the spirits were possessing flowers in touhou 9

(speaking of possession wasn't there something about evil spirits being able to change a youkais nature in one of the games?)

it could be yuuka or even shiki eiki



but my main prediction is the game will involve flowers that Posses people
or flowers being possessed

Zuns titles tell you a lot about the plot of his games

look at urban legned in limbo
 
limbo was gensoyku if you look at it. it is kind of a limbo
and Urban legends from the outside world were falling into it.
there was also a limbo in a sense that it involved going between both gensyoku and the outside world

 





Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Komeiji11 on January 14, 2017, 10:06:26 am
Quote
Speaking of which, at least one LoLK character is more or less guranteed to be in the game, right? Any thoughts on who it might be, and what their Urban Legend is?
I kind of expect  to see Doremi since she's like the overwatcher of dreams and it sounds like this is connected to dreams... But I expected to see Yukari in ULiL and we saw what that situation is like. I'm really hoping we get to see more Sagume though. If not her than Junko.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on January 14, 2017, 03:12:21 pm
I kind of expect  to see Doremi since she's like the overwatcher of dreams and it sounds like this is connected to dreams... But I expected to see Yukari in ULiL and we saw what that situation is like. I'm really hoping we get to see more Sagume though. If not her than Junko.

Eirin had stated in PS4 ULiL's Extra Ending that Sagume and the Lunarians have nothing to do with whatever Incident that will be the focus of AoCF, and Doremy is working for the Lunarians, last I checked.

So unless one of the final bosses of AoCF is going to be another renegade Lunarian so obscure even Eirin doesn't know about, or the Lunarians decide to take advantage of the Incident for whatever reason, I don't think Doremy, Sagume and Junko will be appearing in AoCF as playables...
Yukari... I don't think Gap Hag even cares about what the Lunarians almost did to Gensokyo in LoLK...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on January 14, 2017, 03:36:16 pm
but my main prediction is the game will involve flowers that Posses people
or flowers being possessed

Zuns titles tell you a lot about the plot of his games


hmmnn... flowers that possess people? that sounds interesting. i feel like yuuka would be the second tew last boss in most scenarios due tew the pointing of fingers at her since it'd be 'flowers' being the cause for the incident, but it might be a longshot... i mean, mamizou was a bit unexpected in hopeless masquerade if i recall.

but it's confirmed for a fighting game, right? when i first saw the word 'flower', i automatically thought of PoFV. i wouldn't mind another PoFV, but... i like fighting games a lot... even if i'm super bad at them x.x'
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Ripaah on January 14, 2017, 10:55:25 pm
It will be really cool if AoCF is a game of another genre, like Puzzle, Horizontal Shooting or Beat 'n Up (like Grief Syndrome).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 15, 2017, 02:06:25 am
They said on announcement that it was a fighting game with the same engine as ULiL.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on January 15, 2017, 04:19:57 am
They said on announcement that it was a fighting game with the same engine as ULiL.

huh... i must of missed that. thanks for clarifying!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: lolpudding on January 16, 2017, 04:17:28 pm
out of the three you listed Rin satsuki is the lest likely to show up i would say even less likely then some of the pc98 characters that are not yuuka alice marisa or reimu showing up in new games .

as for the tag battle system ya from the discription it seems heavly implied that its using it.
honestly with a title like Eastern Flowers of Possession

reminds me of when the spirits were possessing flowers in touhou 9

(speaking of possession wasn't there something about evil spirits being able to change a youkais nature in one of the games?)

it could be yuuka or even shiki eiki



but my main prediction is the game will involve flowers that Posses people
or flowers being possessed

Zuns titles tell you a lot about the plot of his games

look at urban legned in limbo
 
limbo was gensoyku if you look at it. it is kind of a limbo
and Urban legends from the outside world were falling into it.
there was also a limbo in a sense that it involved going between both gensyoku and the outside world


I am very aware Rin Satsuki will (99.9%) never appear in a Touhou Game ever, but it never hurts to believe that rejected character might possibly appear in a Touhou game. She might not appear as "Rin Satsuki", but she might be made into a completely new character.

But anyways, yeah, this incident seems a little similar to Touhou 9, so I am also guessing it may or may not be related to that incident too.

I also remember hearing hearing about spirits also being able to change a youkais nature, but I am not sure where either.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on January 16, 2017, 06:34:06 pm
I also remember hearing hearing about spirits also being able to change a youkais nature, but I am not sure where either.
It was said on SoPM, but it was about vengeful spirits (they say the possession becomes complete, so you have the youkai's body with a completely new mind/conscience/personality forever). Assuming the "possession" they talk about in AoCF is just what happened to Reimu ad Mokou during ULiL Extra, i don't see any spirit involved, and is definitely different from the vengeful spirit possession.

A little thing i noticed is that Reimu and Mokou have the same red/white color scheme, i wonder if it means anything.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on January 17, 2017, 10:53:06 am
A little thing i noticed is that Reimu and Mokou have the same red/white color scheme, i wonder if it means anything.

Just thought of that today and was about to point it out too. But you beat me to it...  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on January 17, 2017, 12:06:03 pm
Guess it's correlation more than anything. I guess the teleport worked with the one that have the most relevant trait first (red-white, headstrong and stubborn, human-yet-not-exactly)

Edit: In other word, people that have the same type of spirit basically. Plus Reimu's job is letting people possess her, so she the first target, and Mokou isn't exactly the type that would care deeply about her body...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on January 17, 2017, 04:21:34 pm
If i remember correctly, in EoSD Reimu is stated to be able to control Auras, think there is some connection ?
(also, if the Hakurei Miko aka the most important person of gensokyo can be possesed that easily, i find it a bit scary tbh)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on January 17, 2017, 11:51:05 pm
i had another AoCF dream y'all

this time it was revealed that every character from LoLK to IN would be playables, and i was like "wait what whAT" and then it was revealed that AoCF was some bad 3D game, i'm pretty glad it's a dream.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on January 20, 2017, 08:10:02 am
I just realized this crucial point...

When Mokou's soul possessed Reimu in ULiL PS4 Extra, what happened to Mokou's own body? Is her body left as a soulless husk, or has Mokou's soul switched places with Reimu's?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on January 20, 2017, 09:25:44 am
Good question, but i"m pretty sure Reimu's soul replaced Mokou's, and vice-verca. To me, it looked like the bodies were physically switched more than only the soul going from one body to another.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 20, 2017, 10:45:26 am
A lot of people think it looks like body-swapping, but that's just a superficial view of it. There's likely a reason why it's officially being called "possession" rather than "swapping" despite being described as swapping.

Chirorian's theory (https://twitter.com/tiroryu/status/808930239942455296) is that while they were sleeping, Mokou's dream soul possessed Reimu's body, and for the time being Mokou's real body would have been without that dream soul, but there'd actually be two Mokous. Apparently the ending suggests that maybe the swap wasn't perfect, so Reimu didn't invade Mokou's body at the time. Anyways, they're unconvinced that it's actually a body-swapping thing.

If you read WaHH 29 and 35 you'll get an inkling of what might be happening, but here are my thoughts. It's still kind of unclear though.

When Sumireko first started coming to Gensokyo, somebody sleeping would have their own dream soul displaced by Sumireko's, and it would just wander around afterwards. Eventually she "displaces" entire human villagers while they're sleeping, but they seem to kind of stop existing while Sumireko takes their place, and they're returned in their entirety in the same place they were sleeping. Basically my take on this is that their dream soul is displaced from their body by Sumireko's own dream soul, and the physical space their body takes up is used by Sumireko to sustain her own form. Meanwhile, the villager's dream soul just kind of wanders in the meantime, and Sumireko's actual body is left without its own dream soul.

Sumireko's location in Gensokyo doesn't seem to depend on the villager's, which is a major difference from this new possession, but the concept is similar: Mokou's dream soul possessing Reimu displaces hers from her body, and the space Reimu's body takes up is used by Mokou to become Mokou. Mokou's real body is still where it was, without her dream soul, and Reimu's dream soul is off wandering. This doubly makes sense if you suppose that a perfect possession would have the two people swap entirely, since they'd essentially be swapping dream souls, and the bodies (which are similar) change form to become the possessor's.

Surely a lot more confusing than lel body-swap, but yeah.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on January 21, 2017, 03:42:35 am
Huh...if that were true though, Junko would have killed it for her to be able to swap to Chang'e's body... could it be though? Well, that would make sense why Reimu's getting muscle pain all over her body, since Mokou's method of using...tend not to have a healthy result, and kind of support my theory that Yukari is hiding the true cause of this by making that up. Still, if it is the kind of plan with someone of Yukari's caliber involve, those dream soul aren't going to wander, or at least the wandering is the first step.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 21, 2017, 06:50:24 am
I don't think Yukari is making anything up so much as it's progressed into a different thing altogether. The urban legends are involved in some way, at least.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on January 22, 2017, 09:57:19 am
But then the way she execute the solution for Humaned Away is strange, like the rest of it. Instead of just the same amount of material, Humaned Away is the result of Sumireko, which doesn't make sense if only the material is needed, and only the dummy body is required. It's like she said "I know what you're doing, you dummy" to someone, i presume, doing all of this. Yet she leave them alone, and even cover their track.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 22, 2017, 10:11:03 am
Um, but the dummy with similar physical attributes to Sumireko, and some fake dreams, are all that's needed.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on January 22, 2017, 01:47:22 pm
She could have give some rock of a similar weight and gave it dream and shit and it still work. It doesn't need to be human-shaped, if the pattern is followed...More over, where does that spell of exchange even coming from? If it from Sumireko, then the lesser shock thing doesn't make sense, if it from Yukari, Kasen should have known it, so that only leave the hand of a third-party, unless you assume the barrier have some built-in law for that (which, if Kasen being Sage is true, should have know).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 22, 2017, 05:40:19 pm
You sure are assuming an awful lot.
- I don't think anything in the manga leads to suggests that a rock would be fine, especially considering the whole problem was that she was taking the place of human villagers. If anything, the substitutes Yukari plans to use might be closer to human than inanimate, given how she avoids the subject of what the dummies would actually be.
- It is implied that the whole exchange mechanism is a natural part of the Barrier's function just by the way they talk about it. Yukari's suggestion is that they can't get around it, so she'd prepare a way to not get the villagers caught up in it. This makes sense.
- Kasen is also already established to not be all that familiar with the Barrier, considering she spends between the start of WaHH and ULiL trying to get outside, and had previously imagined it as a big dome around Gensokyo. At this point she seems to know just enough about manipulating the Barrier to be meddlesome. Being a "sage" doesn't seem to imply that the person was important for the Barrier specifically, but maybe they were important for other key parts of the youkai expansion project? We have close to zero information about what being a "sage" means, so finding out that Kasen is one doesn't actually reveal that much.

I'm not sure where you're even trying to go with this. I can't tell if you find that theory objectionable in some way or not because your comments are kind of all over the place.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on January 24, 2017, 03:16:18 am
Yeah, and why does she want it that way? If according to the previous pattern, it's kind of a big jump in logic, since that's assuming the barrier is actually getting worse and demand more sacrifices, a thing I'll bet Yukari want to permanently eliminated (It's not like it will be strange if some canon-fied characters mysteriously dissappear in there).Also I'll combine point 2 and 3 to point out that only Yukari herself implied this to her, since she the only one that know throughly how the barriers work. Which put alot of doubt into her statement since she's known to be a constant lier that like to manipulate people to her whim.

Point is, I suspect Yukari blatantly lied about Humaned Away, from how it goes to the cause, to hide the fact that some third party (the new bosses) is the one that do all of this (or taken advantegous of). While at the same time, using the dummy to warn them, baited them into action.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on January 24, 2017, 07:38:55 am
Yukari lying about some things to flush a culprit out is an interesting take and not out of the realm of possibility. However, we know Sumireko was displacing people's dream souls in order to come to Gensokyo, and those people had to be asleep already. Then when the people's bodies were being displaced, it was also while they were asleep, and the disappearances coincided with Sumireko's appearance. That's a pretty clear connection and it doesn't make much sense to write it in just to fool the readers.

I also have to correct myself about there being "nothing suggesting rocks are acceptable", since before she was displacing people's bodies she was displacing smaller objects, although we didn't see it. But it's clear that the best exchange is an exchange closest to being equal, so displacing people is better than displacing rocks.

I don't think of it as the Barrier "getting worse" either. Yukari suggests that the exchange is more stable now than it was before, where bringing Sumireko over the Barrier used to be costly from the imbalance between what comes in and what goes out, but now is not as costly because the exchange is more balanced. It doesn't make sense for the Barrier to demand any more now that the exchanges with Sumireko are as equal as possible. The dummies are made to be the most equal option to swap with, so that's just what she's be swapping with from now on.

I mean, Yukari shenanigans can still be happening, but the explanation of the issue with Sumireko already makes sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on January 24, 2017, 12:26:59 pm
Hm...perhap you're right. Still, when Yukari said that someone must have guided her there, I don't think she's talking about Kasen at all being the cause, since not even she know the Humaned Away. Well, perhap the culprit could be take this phenomenon by chance though, but I doubt it. (Though that would lead to either someone else (maybe in 16?), or Yukari )
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Onion on January 29, 2017, 09:14:13 am
Okay: could somebody please summarize everything from Reisen's ULiL story forward, for me? The thread is long, there's lots of speculation, and the wiki page just translates Tasforo's.

And in the tune of speculations, I went over to KimikoMuffin's pairing generator (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=randship&win=on&missing=on&pc98=on&ellen=on&submit=Generate!), and generated some STRONGEST pairings for the game. If anybody's worried about recent additions showing up, my first pairing was

Reimu Hakurei x Hecatia Lapislazuli

so I think we're fine. For Touhou 15.5, our duos shall be:

Hina Kagiyama × Ruukoto       
Oh yeah, I included PC-98. No need to eliminate options!
Sariel × Mamizou Futatsuiwa       
Why would Futatsuiwa ever need to swap?
Unzan × Remilia Scarlet       
Sounds like Ichirin and Remilia swapped.
Luize × Benben Tsukumo       
...I don't know either of these.
Sara × Chiyuri Kitashirakawa         
I'd rather not, if only because of that name.
Ran Yakumo × Kogasa Tatara       
Seems legit
Hong Meiling × Watatsuki no Toyohime       
Legitness intensifies
Ellen × Mugetsu       
Ellen has her own box on the generator... I wonder why.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on February 01, 2017, 09:45:53 am
Okay: could somebody please summarize everything from Reisen's ULiL story forward, for me? The thread is long, there's lots of speculation, and the wiki page just translates Tasforo's.

I hope i didn't miss anything, but most of the thread is speculation about whether or not this new game will be a tag-team battle game, and if it is, what would be the possible pairings, seasoned by speculations about new playable characters from previous games  #Mima.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on February 01, 2017, 10:33:19 am
#Flan.
Ftfy
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on February 01, 2017, 02:24:32 pm
Yeah i'd kill to see Flan Or Yuuka in that game. Just used Mima here as an example, even though i don't know why she's that popular.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Onion on February 02, 2017, 02:14:49 am
Yeah i'd kill to see Flan Or Yuuka in that game. Just used Mima here as an example, even though i don't know why she's that popular.

Mima was basically THE bad girl for the PC-98 games. Well, she wasn't always, but she was heavily involved with all 5. She was even playable in... Mystic Square? One of the later games. All that importance, all that attention, all that meddling, and...
She's not in 6. In fact, she's never seen again. She's supposedly sealed in some little box thingy at the Hakurei Shrine.
In any case, many people want to see Mima again, because A. she's cool, and B. she was important.

Both Flan and Yuuka are incredibly powerful, which while not dooming them to no fighting game status by any means, I think may hinder their chances. Maybe. Possibly. Mokou made it into ULiL, which I'm a little surprised at. She is human-squishy, but she can only give up, really... (remaining rambling omitted)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on February 02, 2017, 04:59:01 am
Ellen has her own box on the generator... I wonder why.

It's probably because she wasn't created by ZUN.

From TouhouWiki:
Quote
Ellen is not ZUN's original character but a parody of one of the heroines of Hatarakimono (はたらきもの, lit. "Hard Worker"), a manga by Izumi Takemoto, full name Ellen Fuwafuwaatama (fluffy-head) Aureus (エレン・ふわふわ頭・オーレウス).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Omicriel on February 05, 2017, 12:06:10 pm
Speaking of Mima and the other PC98 characters, for this release the biggest candidate to come back wouldn't be Mima - it'd have to be Gengetsu and Mugetsu.

In addition to the obvious fact that the Dream World will presumably play a large part in 15.5's plot, and the fact that they're two characters who come pre-grouped together, they seem to be the perfect thematic fit for the game. They could exist either as the perpetrators of the incident and final bosses, or (like Yuuka in PoFV or Alice in PCB) bystanders who were roped in or joined the incident of their own accord. Even bringing back both of them isn't necessary, as ZUN could easily group Gengetsu by herself alongside someone like Doremy or Hecatia. Mugetsu could get in this way too, but she's far less likely to get in without her sister.

The only other circumstantial help that this idea has is the quote "The Strongest Two Have Joined Forces!," since ZUN once called Gengetsu "the most terrible, most fearful boss" in some music comments back when LLS was released - though this helps the idea that Gengetsu could be grouped with someone like Hecatia most, rather than Mugetsu coming  back too. As far as evidence goes it's not very strong at all, but it's better than most PC-98 characters.

I'm still skeptical of the prospects of any PC-98 character coming back, though, much less in a game made by Tasofro.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on February 07, 2017, 12:41:32 am
ZUN once called Gengetsu "the most terrible, most fearful boss" in some music comments back when LLS was released
Look up her timeout spell if you want a possible explanation of why that is. It's physically impossible to dodge at the standard frame rate.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nikkanoffun on February 07, 2017, 02:35:10 pm
The only other circumstantial help that this idea has is the quote "The Strongest Two Have Joined Forces!,"

If you ask me, I would say that Cirno (The Strongest) and Daiyousei (I prefer, literal jap. Great Fairy) perfectly fit this description ~
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nyxnyx on February 08, 2017, 12:07:53 am
I definitely root for the 2 new moon rabbits duo  :]
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on February 08, 2017, 12:44:55 pm
Honestly, the one thing I want the most about this game isn't the addition of a specific character, but something universal. You know how in the PS4 version of ULiL, at the end of Aracde Mode, if you're playing in Overdrive dificulty, you fight an EX version of Sumireko or Mokou? I want every single playable character to have forms like that and I want them usable by players. Also, I want a mode similar to BlazBlue's Unlimited Mars were all your foes are in their EX-Modes.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Tiamat on February 08, 2017, 01:09:01 pm
You know how in the PS4 version of ULiL, at the end of Aracde Mode, if you're playing in Overdrive dificulty, you fight an EX version of Sumireko or Mokou? I want every single playable character to have forms like that and I want them usable by players.

Far as I know, the only differences between an EX character and a non-EX character in a Touhou fighting game are the AI-spell cards that would make no sense for a player to control...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on February 08, 2017, 01:40:24 pm
Far as I know, the only differences between an EX character and a non-EX character in a Touhou fighting game are the AI-spell cards that would make no sense for a player to control...

I was talking about Arcade Mode, not Story Mode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKQ_TJgpM30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKQ_TJgpM30)
This video should show you exactly what I'm talking about (skip to 22:00 for Mokou and 50:12 for Sumireko). In Arcade Mode, you fight ten different opponents in one round matches before fighting either Mokou or Sumireko in a best-two-out-of-three match at the end. In the four standard difficulties they're no different than normal, but in Overdrive they get powered up, not unlike Gold Characters from Guilty Gear XX and its updates or Unlimited Characters from BlazBlue.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Onion on February 09, 2017, 01:35:26 am
IMO, having Mokou in a fighting game makes no sense since she can fight for as long as she wants- she's immortal, remember? So, at this point, I don't really see any bars on characters coming forth. Even Flandre. She could have learned to control herself, and only "kyuu" as a final spell. Or, Rinnosuke could step forth, simply because ZUN wanted to freak us out. And that argument for Gengetsu seems sound. So, since anybody could join, we can all bunker down and hope against all the signs that Sakuya will come back.

What? Mima?!? Ain't happenin'. Probably. Maybe.

Watch it be, like, Genji.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on February 09, 2017, 03:17:15 am
IMO, having Mokou in a fighting game makes no sense since she can fight for as long as she wants- she's immortal, remember?
Keyword here being wants. Remember that she's immortal, not impervious. She does still feel pain and all that, so she will eventually go "fuck it, I give" when the pain gets too much for her.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Onion on February 11, 2017, 05:13:05 am
Higan forbid she ever gets raged. Determined to beat the truth out of you, a squiggle and "Disabled" appears over her life bar...

Even though the moon and Eientei have absolutely no connections to this whatsoever, a Kaguya/Eirin duo seems rather impervious. Or, Kaguya/Mokou. If they deem something a greater threat, they do fight together. My source is... somewhere else... Erm...

I'm thinking about making a list of every character, then removing the ones that have been in fighting games, and those that couldn't be in fighting games due to physical reasons (I.E. LoLK came out after all the other fighting games) to try and find the characters that have no previous connection. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Aya Reiko on February 12, 2017, 09:51:33 am
IMO, having Mokou in a fighting game makes no sense since she can fight for as long as she wants- she's immortal, remember?
Technically, the same also applies to Cirno.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on February 12, 2017, 12:35:48 pm
Fairies get respawn timers though, so you can just ditch 'em while they're stuck waiting for it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on February 13, 2017, 06:05:29 am
IMO, having Mokou in a fighting game makes no sense since she can fight for as long as she wants- she's immortal, remember?
I presume its because shes bound by the Spell Card Rules like everyone else. It probably wouldn't be too fare fetched to presume that theres some sort of rule that states fighters have to give up fighting at a certain point, even if their still able to fight.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on February 13, 2017, 06:50:32 am
There explicitly is, written in the draft. You declare the number of spells ahead of time and then when you run out you lose, even if you have strength left.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on February 13, 2017, 08:40:07 am
There seem to be cases where combatants don't respect certain aspects of the Rules, but yeah, Mokou will be limited either by her will to fight or the Rules, as I don't think she'd bother breaking 'em.  :)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MANoBadAssGar Jr. on February 13, 2017, 11:08:00 pm
From the manga i got impression whoever break the rules approved/established by the hakurei, gonna get their ass chased by everybody else.
something along the lines of "how dare you get ahead of us, friggin mothafocka" -> *gangbanging ensues*
that, and ofc the usual tyrannical judgmental retributionist of the hakurei
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Onion on February 14, 2017, 12:50:41 am
(Impossible Spell Card PTSD ensues)

Yo, is Ran in any of the fighting games? I was reading through Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, and came across this in Ran's entry:
Quote
The one who has enslaved this strongest of the beasts and uses her for various mundane tasks is the strongest youkai, Yukari Yakumo.
And the footnote:
Quote
Therefore, they're an unbeatable pair.
(Emphasis mine)
Seems to really fit Antinomy's description... Yukari was in Immaterial and Missing Power, though. Not the shaker-upper described. But Ran...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on February 14, 2017, 02:17:01 am
yeah except it's actually about those that mistakenly think they're the strongest two, so
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on February 14, 2017, 04:25:50 pm
Ran is just a Spell Card for Yukari. After Yukari booted her out of the Extra stage she's been pretty much used as a weapon.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Quwanti on March 01, 2017, 11:34:36 pm
Strange Creators vol. 3 got released today, and it also included some info on the new fighter. (From Touhou Network)
http://tohonetwork.doorblog.jp/archives/69388870.html

It is a tag team game.
The roster is set at 20 characters (including Reisen).
And some other stuff I will leave to the more experienced Japanese-language readers.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on March 02, 2017, 12:14:01 am
That's good news! And if google translate isn't lying there will be a new character, meaning we get 4 pre existing characters to show up and they are all Mima with various clothes on.

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Splashman on March 02, 2017, 12:35:16 am
Giving it a shot:

* TH15.5 is a tag team battle game.
* Release schedule and plans are well established.
* Including Udonge, all characters from ULiL are back. 20-people class.
* Aside from new characters, we'll dig deep into the current characters.
* The 2-people 1-team system greatly affects the story.
* The keyword "obsession possession" is very important.
* ZUN says this time it's an aesthetic system.
(Obsession Possession means to deeply adore this world.
Does that mean that the story is addictively amazing?)
* More news to come before this year's Reitaisai.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on March 02, 2017, 04:12:58 am
It's "Possession", not obsession. The next bit is "ZUN is saying that the game is an aesthetic-type", as in, it would focus on aesthetics over other things.
The blog comment is then "Aesthetics are what that world [Gensokyo] is fascinated with. Will it be that the story is so amazing that it loses itself in that?"


ZUN using the term 耽美系 is kinda weird though because I'm pretty sure it colloquially also refers to BL content
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on March 02, 2017, 07:50:17 am
I knew it! I'm so glad everyone's coming back, and Reisen won't be PS4- exclusive forever. :]
I'm still very interested in seeing how this tag-team system will behave. Demo when
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on March 02, 2017, 08:53:16 am
Possibly Reitaisai, given that it's said more information will be released before then.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on March 02, 2017, 09:28:37 am
Thankies! So still within two months, then.  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on March 02, 2017, 09:52:49 am
So the roster size is 20. So that means five newcomers. And I am going to assume that two of them will be brand new characters.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on March 02, 2017, 01:16:21 pm
So the roster size is 20. So that means five newcomers. And I am going to assume that two of them will be brand new characters.

One brand new character, actually. ZUN has said that including the ULiL playables, there will be other previous characters who have not appeared in IaMP, SWR and Soku making reappearances in AoCF. The newcomer will be the final boss, as per usual Touhou tradition.
Or two brand new characters if we have another duo as the final bosses.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on March 02, 2017, 01:58:25 pm
5 new character...Assuming the recent lunar's rabi duo and 2 new character, that would lead to 1 preexisting character...High chance it's going to be Kaguya since 1. ZUN does want her to be in one day and Mokou's already in 2. She's kinda fit for the aesthetic and 3. I suspect the moon part would lead her in. 

Edit: And speaking of, aesthetic mean that the gameplay's probably similar to Hopeless Masquerade, but couple more with the Occult Ball mechanic. That's probably mean, and fun IMO only, that "whoever suck their soul with beautiful play first, win."
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on March 02, 2017, 03:17:52 pm
Or two brand new characters if we have another duo as the final bosses.

That is what I sort of meant with my statement.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on March 12, 2017, 09:40:32 pm
So the roster size is 20. So that means five newcomers. And I am going to assume that two of them will be brand new characters.
where you getting the roster size?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on March 12, 2017, 09:55:03 pm
where you getting the roster size?

Just a couple posts before his own.
Anyway, I do hope Kaguya makes it in but I'm not holding my breath. Also hope the teams won't be obvious shipping fuel like Byakuren & Miko.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on March 13, 2017, 10:53:53 pm
I'm actually more interested in the game ZUN is making himself (TH16?).  Still no info on that?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on March 14, 2017, 01:04:03 am
As always, there will likely be zero news until a few days before the demo releases. You'll probably have to wait until May. Tasofro's media strategy is totally different from ZUN's.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on March 14, 2017, 10:59:11 am
Did they specifically say there will be more than one brand new character?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on March 14, 2017, 12:45:09 pm
Quote from: SC vol.3
初報の通り「深秘録」で動いているキャラは全員登場するということ。「全員」にはPS4版で追加された鈴仙も、もちろん含まれます。 [...] 今回新キャラを含めると20人クラスの大所帯なので、そうすると一人を選んで遊ぶゲームではキャラがもったいないんじゃないかなって。
- all characters from ULiL will appear, including reisen
- including new characters, it's a 20-character-class big family (how2translatelol)

I can't tell from context whether it means exactly 20 characters or "in the scope of" 20 characters. It's talking about how it's tag-team partially because it would be a bit of a waste to have so many characters with each individual person only ever playing one.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Marron on March 14, 2017, 07:07:53 pm
I don't really understand. Does that mean that we'll only see five new characters/returning characters for this game ?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on March 14, 2017, 11:46:30 pm
That's what's implied, I guess? I just get the feeling that it could too early for them to say exactly how many characters there will be.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on March 15, 2017, 05:11:11 am
"Only" 5 new characters is still as many as 12.3 added to SWR, and more than ULiL added to HM's cast (4; 5 if you count Reisen getting added to the PS4 edition). It's really a pretty reasonable amount to expect.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Marron on March 15, 2017, 10:30:07 am
Since it seems like it's more a new game than an extension of HM/ULiL, I would have thought there would be more characters to be honest.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on March 15, 2017, 12:59:49 pm
It's always been five characters between each game. Even with Hisoutensoku. :) Although being an expansion, none of those five were newcomers. (Not counting Namazu, who is not playable.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Marron on March 15, 2017, 01:39:26 pm
Well, what you say is a bit reassuring. I hope we'll get five returning characters(who were not playable in SWR/Hisou) + one or two bosses.(new characters)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on March 15, 2017, 04:01:56 pm
Oh wow, I didn't realize even IaMP to SWR only added 5 characters as well. I guess it really is the exact same for every game XD
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on March 16, 2017, 01:08:58 am
Ummmmm... wow.

It's been, what, 3 days since the release of ULiL on PS4? That's pretty cold of Tasofro to people who bought it.
not as cold as making Resien story exclusive to PS4 and isolating one of there oldest player bases :|

before you ask yes i'm very salty over this


I really Really hope 15.5 is not PS4 exclusive T_T

did the new volume of strange creators mention anything on what system its for?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on March 16, 2017, 01:54:22 am
I really Really hope 15.5 is not PS4 exclusive T_T
Why would it be? Unless Sony is paying them big money I don't see how an official Touhou title would be PS4 exclusive.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on March 16, 2017, 02:47:58 am
Pretty sure it'll be released on Windows first just like practically everything else. Hell, 14.5 even being put on console was a fluke in itself, for the most part, so 15.5 winding up just on console? Asinine notion...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Maple on March 16, 2017, 08:13:15 pm
Remember when people datamined ULiL's demo and revealed Mokou, Shinmyoumaru, and Hanako aka Sumireko?

https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1156734.html#msg1156734

Wasn't HM's cast also leaked (Nitori, Koishi, Mamizou, Boss aka Kokoro), first by a guy on facebook and then confirmed by Chinese dataminers? (may be remembering wrong)

I wasn't back then for SWR let alone IaMP, but did something similar happen then?

Who's gonna say that Tasofro messes up, again, and hides the cast on the demo (if we get a demo for AoCF)?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on March 16, 2017, 10:05:26 pm
It's possible, but you'll have to wait for a demo first.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on March 16, 2017, 11:07:50 pm
Disclaimer: I am not claiming this is a 100% certainty. It is entirely possible Tasfro may surprise us, but given their history it's pretty doubtful.

tl;dr probably even if it's not 100% because tasfro is a small company with shitty programmers.


I'd wager that the possibility of getting another leak like that is extremely high. As for why...it's not nessecairly a mess-up, but it's extremely likely for a number of reasons.

First of all, one has to understand why data mining is even a thing in the first place. Finding dummied out assets, hints of sequels, and even infamous cases like Sun and Moon's demo leaking all of the new mons - all of these things happen because coding is an absolute mess. One would think that it's as simple a matter as just removing the files in question, but then something seemingly unrelated breaks, or the game starts glitching in unexpected ways. This is because even with extremely good coding practices, programming is less like a straight road from A to B, and more like a Jenga tower. You never know what piece you remove is going to cause the whole thing to fall down.

This is, of course, a very simplified explanation of a very complicated topic, but the short version of it is that it's often preferred to simply build upon existing code, rather than trying to modify or remove existing code, and simply hide assets tied in with said code away from the player.

So what does this have to do with a demo of a game? Well, almost all demos (with a few notable exceptions, such as the Stanley Parable's demo) are based off a version of the already existing game. Preferably one later in the game's development cycle for the sake of stability and matching the full experience as much as possible. As a result, a bunch of stuff gets in the code - even for examples like the Sun and Moon Special Demo, where while technically being a unique experience from the game proper was completely based off of the existing code base and assets - and nintendo erred on the side of caution and playability, resulting in some assets making it through.

Nintendo is, by the way, a multi-million dollar company with a history of fairly stable games. Twilight Frontier, meanwhile, is a small company with a history of ...questionable programming quality at best. As a result, it's hardly surprising that they were unable to fully scrub any connections to the full cast in HM or ULiL - as they were presumably set in stone after a certain point. I have no idea and research into the matter didn't reveal if leaks had happened in hisou and prior games - but at this point people have gotten really good at data mining, so it's a whole different ballgame these days to begin with.


Of course, one may raise the question of "Why did the ULiL demo have Hanako listed instead of Sumireko?" The fact that Mokou and Shinmyoumaru were also in that datamine suggests that it wasn't because of an attempt to hide only Sumireko - surely, if the intent was to obscure info until launch, they'd go out of their way to hide the other two as well? Instead, this raises the interesting possibility (and this is only based on speculation from the evidence, unless we hear from ZUN himself we have no way of confirming this) that at some point a character named Hanako was intended to be the final boss of ULiL. This makes sense - Hanako is the name of a fairly big urban legend, and surely it would have made sense to tie in the Urban Legends into the culprit of the plot? I'm only making a wild stab in the dark here, but I'm assuming that ZUN changed his mind and shifted the plot's end focus away from the urban legends and implemented Sumireko instead as a hook for LoLK - presumably out of a desire to start a new meta plot, much like how MoF was the catalyst for SA, UFO, TD, SoPM, and HM. Combined with how Kokoro's entry in the HM demo was simply "boss," and it probably means that both HM and ULiL's demos were based off of considerably earlier builds than the final release - which, if the trend continues, means that we'll probably have to take any non-familiar name with a grain of salt (if we even get one and it's not just boss again). Not because Tasfro's attempting to hide anything, but because the demo will possibly have started being made from a fork that was early on enough that they hadn't fully implemented the final boss yet.


As a side note I fully expect Sagume to be in AoCF. She's gotten a number of cameos recently, she's a stage 5 boss (historically speaking they tend to find themselves in major or playable roles), she was name dropped in Reisen's campaign, featured in the tease for Alt Facts, and seems to have been established as a connection between Lunar Society and Gensokyo, which I'm speculating due to various plot developments and what I assume are bids at foreshadowing will continue to be at the forefront of future events.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Maple on March 16, 2017, 11:50:32 pm
As a side note I fully expect Sagume to be in AoCF. She's gotten a number of cameos recently, she's a stage 5 boss (historically speaking they tend to find themselves in major or playable roles)

Ayy

But, i wonder how Sagume could fit in a game where the playable characters go to a variety of locations, with "muh purity" and Earth being an impure place. I remember when Toyohime went to the Bamboo Forest. I can't see them being a prolonged time outside the Lunar Capital (and Dream World), with the risk of a combat they can't end with a single attack.

If they had a representative from LoLK, i'd expect literally anyone but Sagume, given that they are more comfortable with staying on Earth (or Hell). But it could be like Remilia with night stages on IaMP or indoor stages on Soku with some power up to allow her to be elsewhere.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on March 16, 2017, 11:54:32 pm
Disclaimer: I am not claiming this is a 100% certainty. It is entirely possible Tasfro may surprise us, but given their history it's pretty doubtful.

tl;dr probably even if it's not 100% because tasfro is a small company with shitty programmers.


I'd wager that the possibility of getting another leak like that is extremely high. As for why...it's not nessecairly a mess-up, but it's extremely likely for a number of reasons.

First of all, one has to understand why data mining is even a thing in the first place. Finding dummied out assets, hints of sequels, and even infamous cases like Sun and Moon's demo leaking all of the new mons - all of these things happen because coding is an absolute mess. One would think that it's as simple a matter as just removing the files in question, but then something seemingly unrelated breaks, or the game starts glitching in unexpected ways. This is because even with extremely good coding practices, programming is less like a straight road from A to B, and more like a Jenga tower. You never know what piece you remove is going to cause the whole thing to fall down.

This is, of course, a very simplified explanation of a very complicated topic, but the short version of it is that it's often preferred to simply build upon existing code, rather than trying to modify or remove existing code, and simply hide assets tied in with said code away from the player.

So what does this have to do with a demo of a game? Well, almost all demos (with a few notable exceptions, such as the Stanley Parable's demo) are based off a version of the already existing game. Preferably one later in the game's development cycle for the sake of stability and matching the full experience as much as possible. As a result, a bunch of stuff gets in the code - even for examples like the Sun and Moon Special Demo, where while technically being a unique experience from the game proper was completely based off of the existing code base and assets - and nintendo erred on the side of caution and playability, resulting in some assets making it through.

Nintendo is, by the way, a multi-million dollar company with a history of fairly stable games. Twilight Frontier, meanwhile, is a small company with a history of ...questionable programming quality at best. As a result, it's hardly surprising that they were unable to fully scrub any connections to the full cast in HM or ULiL - as they were presumably set in stone after a certain point. I have no idea and research into the matter didn't reveal if leaks had happened in hisou and prior games - but at this point people have gotten really good at data mining, so it's a whole different ballgame these days to begin with.


Of course, one may raise the question of "Why did the ULiL demo have Hanako listed instead of Sumireko?" The fact that Mokou and Shinmyoumaru were also in that datamine suggests that it wasn't because of an attempt to hide only Sumireko - surely, if the intent was to obscure info until launch, they'd go out of their way to hide the other two as well? Instead, this raises the interesting possibility (and this is only based on speculation from the evidence, unless we hear from ZUN himself we have no way of confirming this) that at some point a character named Hanako was intended to be the final boss of ULiL. This makes sense - Hanako is the name of a fairly big urban legend, and surely it would have made sense to tie in the Urban Legends into the culprit of the plot? I'm only making a wild stab in the dark here, but I'm assuming that ZUN changed his mind and shifted the plot's end focus away from the urban legends and implemented Sumireko instead as a hook for LoLK - presumably out of a desire to start a new meta plot, much like how MoF was the catalyst for SA, UFO, TD, SoPM, and HM. Combined with how Kokoro's entry in the HM demo was simply "boss," and it probably means that both HM and ULiL's demos were based off of considerably earlier builds than the final release - which, if the trend continues, means that we'll probably have to take any non-familiar name with a grain of salt (if we even get one and it's not just boss again). Not because Tasfro's attempting to hide anything, but because the demo will possibly have started being made from a fork that was early on enough that they hadn't fully implemented the final boss yet.


As a side note I fully expect Sagume to be in AoCF. She's gotten a number of cameos recently, she's a stage 5 boss (historically speaking they tend to find themselves in major or playable roles), she was name dropped in Reisen's campaign, featured in the tease for Alt Facts, and seems to have been established as a connection between Lunar Society and Gensokyo, which I'm speculating due to various plot developments and what I assume are bids at foreshadowing will continue to be at the forefront of future events.
Sumireko was likely called Hanako because the front part of her name is a type of flower, and "hana" means flower, so Hanako was likely a placeholder name.

And Sagume is a stage 4 boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on March 17, 2017, 12:46:35 am
Of course, one may raise the question of "Why did the ULiL demo have Hanako listed instead of Sumireko?" The fact that Mokou and Shinmyoumaru were also in that datamine suggests that it wasn't because of an attempt to hide only Sumireko - surely, if the intent was to obscure info until launch, they'd go out of their way to hide the other two as well? Instead, this raises the interesting possibility (and this is only based on speculation from the evidence, unless we hear from ZUN himself we have no way of confirming this) that at some point a character named Hanako was intended to be the final boss of ULiL. This makes sense - Hanako is the name of a fairly big urban legend, and surely it would have made sense to tie in the Urban Legends into the culprit of the plot? I'm only making a wild stab in the dark here, but I'm assuming that ZUN changed his mind and shifted the plot's end focus away from the urban legends and implemented Sumireko instead as a hook for LoLK - presumably out of a desire to start a new meta plot, much like how MoF was the catalyst for SA, UFO, TD, SoPM, and HM. Combined with how Kokoro's entry in the HM demo was simply "boss," and it probably means that both HM and ULiL's demos were based off of considerably earlier builds than the final release - which, if the trend continues, means that we'll probably have to take any non-familiar name with a grain of salt (if we even get one and it's not just boss again). Not because Tasfro's attempting to hide anything, but because the demo will possibly have started being made from a fork that was early on enough that they hadn't fully implemented the final boss yet.

Or maybe the character wasn't completely finalized yet and they had Hanako as a placeholder name
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on March 17, 2017, 01:38:53 am
It might have just been speculation and I'm remembering wrong, but I remember hearing somewhere that tasofro wasn't going to release a demo for this game, and that ULiL Extra was meant to be a preview of the system (minus the double player part).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Prime32 on March 17, 2017, 01:44:06 am
Sumireko was likely called Hanako because the front part of her name is a type of flower, and "hana" means flower, so Hanako was likely a placeholder name.
The first part of Renko is also a type of flower. If ZUN was trying to connect them by repeating the "flower child" naming scheme, then he would have almost certainly thought of her as just "flower child" for a while before he settled on a specific flower.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on March 17, 2017, 10:23:35 pm
Remember when people datamined ULiL's demo and revealed Mokou, Shinmyoumaru, and Hanako aka Sumireko?

I wasn't back then for SWR let alone IaMP, but did something similar happen then?
hi i disassembled the swr demo because i was super super hype for a game that eventually disappointed me. also, the demo had more fun mechanics than the final version did.

swr demo had slots in the data for 20 characters, but the only ones that were named were the characters from iamp. i don't recall if meiling was in the list or not. not checking again.

it's probable that swr was planned to be a much bigger game than it ended up being, and they had to make good on that with the expansion.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on March 18, 2017, 01:17:18 pm
If they had a representative from LoLK, i'd expect literally anyone but Sagume, given that they are more comfortable with staying on Earth (or Hell). But it could be like Remilia with night stages on IaMP or indoor stages on Soku with some power up to allow her to be elsewhere.

Considering that she's responsible for ULiL (during Reimu's final scenario in particular), Sagume will involved in AoCF, whether she like it or not. When we talking about IaMP, SWR and Soku, I would like to see the return of ground combat in AoCF. Or better yet, a mix between aerial and ground combat.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on March 18, 2017, 04:32:52 pm
Considering that she's responsible for ULiL (during Reimu's final scenario in particular), Sagume will involved in AoCF, whether she like it or not. When we talking about IaMP, SWR and Soku, I would like to see the return of ground combat in AoCF. Or better yet, a mix between aerial and ground combat.

The plot show that the moon isn't going to get involve in this directly though (Moon rabbits are a different case, as they're as concern with the lunarian side just as much as Reisen is: professionally). Also, another problem is that Sagume is too strong for a character, and ZUN doesn't put OP foreigner into the game. Also, assuming if Sagume is in the game, who would she be parring with? Since she isn't the type for the theme of this game (tag-team for the misguided strongest duo).

Edit: Also, if there's any involment, it's mainly going to be off-screen, and she would likely sent someone else to clean up the mess (someone that's convieniently on Gensokyo right now, and is partly under her command, like Seiran and Ringo)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on March 18, 2017, 04:58:59 pm
Ground combat isn't happening. It's still on the ULiL engine, which wasn't made for that sort of thing. Maybe in the next fighting game cycle. Presumably it's been selling reasonably enough for them to continue making faster spin-offs using the engine, rather than taking the time to make another Hisou-style engine.

As for Sagume being too strong - that's not a problem if she's playing by the spell card rules, since it's already established she has no qualms about holding back. It's not a problem like it is in, say, Flandre's case where she can't hold back that well, or in Kaguya + Mokou's case where they weren't in for Hisou due to being well above the power level meant for that expansion. As for who - the most likely outcomes are probably Reisen (already has a link to her, Reisen seems to hold respect), or one of the other four new characters. (The muh purity argument...well, evidently that's not an issue either since the moon bitches have visited Gensokyo in the past without issue. Presumably it doesn't hurt their agelessness if they only visit.)

Speaking of which, I expect the pairings to be, assuming ZUN & Tasofro didn't decide to go with a 'man let's just throw them together for the sake of clashing and thus humorous dialogue' approach - Ichirin * Byakuren, Futo * Miko, Either Kokoro * Mamizou or Koishi, Mokou * Sumireko, Reimu * Kasen or Shinmyoumaru, and Marisa * Nitori. Just wild shots in the dark here, but since we already know that nobody from the Hisou era will be making a showing, that somewhat dilutes the potential pool for partners for the odd ones out, and gives me speculation that we might possibly see Shinmyoumaru * Seija, Kasen * Yuugi, Mamizou * Nue, Reisen * Sagume, Reisen * Kaguya.

And if at least one of Seija, Yuugi, Nue, Sagume, or Kaguya aren't the newcomers in the cast I will be very sad that I got all my guesses wrong and probably add a dunce cap to my avatar or something for writing all that up.

Also yeah, entirely possible it was just a placeholder name for Sumireko too. I hope one day we get a confirmation one way or another, learning more about games in-dev is always so fascinating.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on March 18, 2017, 06:40:35 pm
I'm not up to date with the manga which might have clarified things, but from ULiL extra and the promotional stuff, I was under the impression that each person only bodyswaps with one other, specific person. If that's how it is, wouldn't Reimu/Mokou be a pair? And if that's the case, pairing people by their relationships might not work out too well.

Also, do we know if the urban legends will be making a reappearance in this game, or is that over and done with?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on March 18, 2017, 07:49:09 pm
Neither FS nor WaHH have clarified anything, no. That being said while we'll know for sure in a few months give or take, I'm running off the assumption that, like how they learned how to control urban legends in ULiL, the cast will learn before the events of the game how to use the possession phenomenon. If that assumption's wrong then all my guesses will be automatically wrong too (or at least, if they're correct, not for the reasons I guessed.).

As for one specific person - while it's pretty much garnered it'll be that way for the story mode I really hope it isn't for VS mode. The whole 'tag team' aspect would become extremely bland if you had no choice of who to pair. Of course this being Tasofro I would not be surprised if it was locked in stone even in VS mode.

Also yes, the urban legend system will be continuing. ACoF is a extension/continuation of that plot/mechanic, that much is already confirmed. It'll probably just build on/refine on it like Hisou did for SWR.

Edit: Though honestly, it's tasofro. If they don't push for at least some fanservice-y pairs I will be 200% shocked.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on March 19, 2017, 05:26:06 am
I would be -very- surprised if tag teams were concrete in versus, considering 15 characters already have full standalone sprites/moves/etc, along with the explanation that "it'd be a waste to have so many characters when you only use one, so let's do tag teams!". They'll likely only be concrete in story mode.

Besides, that would mean there is effectively only 10 characters, not 20, it seems like something that may have been mentioned by now. Granted, we don't know that much game info yet, but still.

And while the urban legend system continues, that's more of a plot device (And meaning that the occult moves may remain in some form) than otherwise; the occult BALLS are gone, so we shouldn't need to worry about having weather... again. Probably. Hopefully. At the least we won't need to chase balls during it if it does return.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on March 19, 2017, 10:24:04 am
I guess in exchange for lesser storyline, they would instead pad each storyline a bit more to compensate player time, or we could play flipped perceptive of each tag team.

As for Sagume, I mean she is too strong the same reason that the Lunarian is too strong: They're story-breaker element, in ZUN perceptive. The moment they're in, even if the law is follow, the narrative of the game isn't confine in gensokyo anymore (which is the main anesthetic of the entire series it build up on), but with something else. Even in the case of touhou 15, we didn't suddenly played with a lunarian character tasked to take back the holy land or anything, even though they're the entire reason, because in the end it's the problem they have to solve as usual.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on March 19, 2017, 01:03:00 pm
And ZUN doesn't put OP foreigner into the game.

Keep in mind ZUN also said Sanae wouldn't be playable in a game because she's a very strong character. He can change his mind at will to be quite honest.
Besides, while I do personally believe Watatsukis are kinda strong to be in a game, Sagume was defeated during LoLK using Spellcard rules — isn't this Gensokyo's premise?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on March 19, 2017, 03:04:48 pm
Hecatia was beaten in LoLK too, but more or less, some of these characters are holding back a LOT in the spellcard fights. It's also hard to imagine a story mode where the person you're playing is like extrafinal boss status and basically just fooling around when it comes to the fights. Theoretically, it can work, but... I don't think it's likely they'd do it.

Although yeah the Watatsukis are mary-sues and furthermore don't really have interest in holding back, so even with spellcard rules it wouldn't be realistic to have them in a game unless Eirin's ultramarine elixir was involved. As ZUN said, it was along the lines of "They can't be in a game because that'd mean you have to be able to beat them." Sagume and Hecatia are at least up for fooling around.

Quote
I guess in exchange for lesser storyline, they would instead pad each storyline a bit more to compensate player time, or we could play flipped perceptive of each tag team.
Several of the story modes in other games were already highly inconsequential, and 10 is still plenty (and as many as some of the touhou fighters have had) so I don't imagine that'd be necessary. The "padding" in fighting games generally comes from versus play anyway; the story modes are still cool but I can hardly see them going "We need to pad out the story mode content more!".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on March 19, 2017, 03:40:42 pm
It's not even a stretch when we already have Yukari's story route in IaMP and SWR, which is basically Slayer. The entire point of the spell card rules is to allow ZUN to make whatever dumb extraturbosuperultra powers he wants and still not have to worry about power levels, with few exceptions (which he seems to not particularly care much about following anyway so who knows with him). At this point I'd honestly not even be surprised if the Watatasukis showed up with some sort of retcon or other crippling factor to their power - I don't expect it, mind, but very few things should be surprising from this man anymore I think.

I WILL be surprised if Yuugi doesn't make a showing though. She's already showed up in an ending which is as foreshadow-y as it gets and honestly with Nitori (for Oni servitude jokes), Shinmyoumaru (Mythology gag + playing off small vs large) and Kasen in the roster I'd be exceptionally shocked if they don't go for it. Something like 300%.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on March 19, 2017, 03:52:19 pm
Keep in mind ZUN also said Sanae wouldn't be playable in a game because she's a very strong character. He can change his mind at will to be quite honest.
Quote
yada yada spellcard
Pretty much this. I don't really believe that being "overpowered" should be considered as an exclusion criteria for any character to be in any game *cough*Mokou*cough* ESPECIALLY if the premises of the game this time is that the enemy is TOO STRONG you actually need to team up to beat her down.

There are already plenty of OP characters who can do just fine in the games, even in the shooter ones. How is the issue of being overpowered tackled in these ? Through various character related motives : just a test, playing around, not feeling motivated, you name it... in this game for example, we should get a "took 2 of you to beat me" approach toward the supposedly OP new character.

Point is, fitting an OP character into a game really shouldn't be a problem at all : making it coherent would be the challenge toward creativity. Which ain't that hard.

Anyway, there'll be one guaranteed OP character : that'd be the villain in this game's plot : now the issue of being overpowered comes in the question of how to not only make the character balanced (gameplay wise) while STILL giving the message that she is pretty strong (cuz Touhou lore gotta be respected, y'know). And I say there might just be one way to do that :

See the ULiL interview in Strange CoOW and how some things were in ULiL ? It kinda gives the impression that there are a few ideas that Tasofro didn't get to implement in ULiL, like have Reimu have a hopeless boss battle against Sumireko's shadow for example ; and some other stuff they actually got to put in the PS4 one, such as battling EX Mokou or EX Sumireko in arcade overdrive : these are pretty OK ways of handling the issue. Just a challenge towards creativity.

It'd be pretty cool if Tasofro got to put those ideas in this game. Hopefully they will :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on March 19, 2017, 04:38:29 pm
Hanako is still in ULiL.
The release actually considers Sumireko as 2 distinct characters. The shadow at the end of Reimu's intro is called hanako, and her assets folder only contains the sprite for her shadow and a few more things. And the game has another character, usami, which contains the actual Sumireko used in all other scenarios and in VS mode.
Maybe they were just lazy to merge them into a single character. Maybe they actually wanted her to be someone else. We probably will never know.

And about AoFC datamining, I don't think I'll work on the demo, because my goal when working on the ULiL demo was to prepare ULiL patching, and they changed their file format for the release. Maybe someone else will do it (if we have a demo)? Or maybe the ULiL tools will work on the AoFC demo?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on March 19, 2017, 05:35:39 pm
they probably just didn't merge.

iamp yukari's sprite pack contain a bunch of reimu's for the border scene story.

laziness is the sign of a developer that gets things done.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrystalCreation on March 19, 2017, 06:57:57 pm
ESPECIALLY if the premises of the game this time is that the enemy is TOO STRONG you actually need to team up to beat her down.

...

Anyway, there'll be one guaranteed OP character : that'd be the villain in this game's plot : now the issue of being overpowered comes in the question of how to not only make the character balanced (gameplay wise) while STILL giving the message that she is pretty strong (cuz Touhou lore gotta be respected, y'know). And I say there might just be one way to do that :
I don’t think the culprit not being defeatable by a solo fighter has anything to do with power. The series had plenty of really powerful characters all of which could be defeated by a single heroine. It wouldn’t make sense to suddenly introduce an even more powerful character who could somehow overpower every protagonist.

I expect AoCF to have another situation like LoLKs fairy invasion. Fairies are by no means stronger than lunarians, yet a whole army of them on the moon can render the lunarians helpless due to the fairies impurity. Even though lunarians are the strongest known species and fairies are one of the weakest, the fairies can still set them checkmate under the right circumstances.

The culprit in AoCF likely has an ability or some other means to set any solo fighter checkmate regardless of power. But once the heroines can circumvent that ability via perfect possession then the culprit probably won’t be much stronger than the average final boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on March 19, 2017, 08:30:06 pm
Speaking of demos, I've been thinking about the more-than-probable TH16 getting its demo released alongside AoCF demo on Reitaisai, and both getting their full release at Comiket.
Weird but not impossible (technically Soku was released the same day as UFO but well).

Just wondering, tho.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on March 19, 2017, 10:42:53 pm
i wonder if the demo will run on my computer without having to fire up the debugger to take care of whatever misguided anti-hacking measure they did this time.

that sure would be nice.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on March 20, 2017, 05:59:01 am
The culprit in AoCF likely has an ability or some other means to set any solo fighter checkmate regardless of power. But once the heroines can circumvent that ability via perfect possession then the culprit probably won’t be much stronger than the average final boss.

It could be the main culprit has an ability to transfer someone's mind and soul from one body to another body. This might explains why sudden strangeness happen during the climax of Reisen's scenario in PS4 exclusive ULiL. Apparently, the culprit seems trying to take an advantage during the wake of Urban Legend Incident, and thus the Perfect Possession Incident happens.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on March 20, 2017, 06:53:06 am
For the Sagume thing again: I said ZUN doesn't like putting OP foreigner as the player roster, I don't said just OP alone. Yukari and Sanae (I don't think she's that OP anyway) can still be there because they're residents of Gensokyo, more or less, and thus the narrative of Gensokyo's perceptive is still preserve. If you put someone like the Watatsukis in the roster, the narrative naturally have to be shifted to the Lunarian perceptive, breaking the heavily establish theme of the game. I don't know if ZUN want to do that or not for his game right now, but the pattern is consistent.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on March 20, 2017, 06:55:52 am
It could be the main culprit has an ability to transfer someone's mind and soul from one body to another body. This might explains why sudden strangeness happen during the climax of Reisen's scenario in PS4 exclusive ULiL. Apparently, the culprit seems trying to take an advantage during the wake of Urban Legend Incident, and thus the Perfect Possession Incident happens.

If so, I guess some unlucky indivitual of the cast is going to be possessed by the boss, and we have to fight them instead of the one we fight before. It would be consistent with the theme, and you could get away with having only 1 boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on March 21, 2017, 04:42:06 am
If so, I guess some unlucky individual of the cast is going to be possessed by the boss, and we have to fight them instead of the one we fight before. It would be consistent with the theme, and you could get away with having only 1 boss.

Especially if one of ULiL participant is a key character in AoCF i.e. the culprit/final boss' main target.

When we talking about the culprit/final boss' ability, her ability is not only able to transfer someone's soul to another body, but also hijacking the unfortunate victim with her body surf-like abilities, effectively becoming her puppet in process. Hence the word "possession" on its Japanese title.

There's an implication when the events of ULiL still ongoing, the culprit (outside from Sagume's Lunarian mass migration plan) secretly analyze each participants' urban legend, and Sumireko is no exception. Then, in Reisen's scenario, the culprit makes her movement by tampering every participant's urban legend, along with their mind, body and soul. If this happens to Reimu and Mokou, then its implied the same phenomenon also happens to Byakuren and Miko as well, along with others.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on March 21, 2017, 07:51:04 am
Even though we currently have absolutely no information on the final boss of AoCF, I keep thinking that future fanworks will make her an expy of, or even crossover-ship her with Agent Smith from The Matrix movies, what's with the whole perfect possession thing being very similar to the Agents' possession skills...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on March 21, 2017, 08:37:59 am
Or someone like the second Colorless King fromK anime.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on March 26, 2017, 02:36:19 pm
After seeing the last FS chapter, i think they hinted that the last boss might be Kosuzu
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Sophilia on March 26, 2017, 08:45:39 pm
Nah, this probably isn't her Incident.  It doesn't match with her ability, position, or the lead-in story via Reisen in ULiL.

She's being set up for something big though.  ZUN is working on a second project after all...  ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on March 26, 2017, 08:54:21 pm
I'm kinda out of the loop, but super excited for this game! Even though the fact that it will likely be another float fighter is kinda a bummer...

Looking at the past's release dates of demos and the like, aren't we late on it?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on March 27, 2017, 03:46:28 am
No, both this and what is likely ZUN's next game seem to be scheduled for demos at Reitaisai in May.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on March 27, 2017, 07:33:01 am
Nah, this probably isn't her Incident.  It doesn't match with her ability, position, or the lead-in story via Reisen in ULiL.

She's being set up for something big though.  ZUN is working on a second project after all...  ;)

But then again, FS is more leaning towards innocent bystander series; a series where in a world filled with powerful individuals, the main focus of the story is a normal citizen with no combat experience/skills whatsoever.

BTW, does anyone here make a speculation about the new gameplay features for AoCF?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on March 27, 2017, 08:54:37 am
Nah, this probably isn't her Incident.  It doesn't match with her ability, position, or the lead-in story via Reisen in ULiL.

She's being set up for something big though.  ZUN is working on a second project after all...  ;)

Of course it's only a theory on my side, but i think that it might fit her pretty well. Her ability sure has nothing to do with it at first view, but her position i think is quite interesting : she has access to an awful lot of youkai knowledge, Yukari is helping her out, and Mamizou said that she was cursed by the youkai power

Also, as she seems to be neutral to both Youkai and Humans and wants them to be treated equally, the AoCF accident seems to fit her, as for example if Reimu's spirit ends up in a Youkai body, it might reveal her how youkai feel and stuff and maybe change her way of dealing with them ( i doubt it though ). So it would fit her, as Byakuren said in Reisen's story that to get hold of an urban legend, it must fit your character : she has been posessed multiple times, so why not.

Also, what is the " second project " you are reffering to ? It got me really interessted !


But then again, FS is more leaning towards innocent bystander series; a series where in a world filled with powerful individuals, the main focus of the story is a normal citizen with no combat experience/skills whatsoever.

BTW, does anyone here make a speculation about the new gameplay features for AoCF?


I agree with you for the FS point of view, but it doesn't really deny her from appearing : She might be the culprit, but you don't necessarily need to fight her : you may be fighting random duos until the last stand, where you fight your duo partner instead of her. Might be interesting.

As for the features, i think considering the duo-system we might be able to have two characters with a shared-lifebar that you can switch whenever you want, or just an assist system where sometimes the partner show ups in combos or for a combined super-attack, those are my guesses for now.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on March 27, 2017, 10:19:20 am
As for the features, i think considering the duo-system we might be able to have two characters with a shared-lifebar that you can switch whenever you want, or just an assist system where sometimes the partner show ups in combos or for a combined super-attack, those are my guesses for now.

Regardless if it's a 2 vs. 2 or 1 vs. 1 with assist system, it's about team versus team, right?

Speaking of the game features, I just got an idea of speculation in order to match the theme of the game.

If Hopeless Masquerade focused on popularity and faith, while Urban Legend in Limbo focused on urban legend via Occult Balls and Mystery Spots, then Antinomy of Common Flowers is likely about "anatomy of the soul". Sure, the urban legend thing is still ongoing, but it most likely the urban legend will be relegated into subplot (both story and gameplay wise) and the game will focused on this "anatomy of the soul" thing. I've got this idea of speculation after reading TV Tropes about "anatomy of the soul", as seen here (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnatomyOfTheSoul). Here's the speculation about the new gimmick for this game.

During the match, there is an object called "flowers of soul". Similar to Mystery Spots, each flowers gives you a temporary buff for 20 seconds. There are 10 flowers of souls, each flowers represent each part of humans' soul; 3 being main component and 7 being extra component.

 The 10 flowers of soul effects are:
- Soul: Regenerates health gradually, but become faster if you're in idle stance.
- Mind: Increase the Spell Card power by 10%, regardless how much spell gauge you have.
- Body: Increase melee power and reduce the received damage by 15%.
- Heart: Regenerates spell gauge by 100 points, but become 200 points if you're in idle stance.
- Dreams: Occult Attacks will increased by 10%.
- Memories: When your character get hit by your opponent, your character's Occult Attack will not disappear.
- Karma: Each consecutive hits will grant you a 200 points worth for spell gauge, but it will reduce the spell gauge with the same points if you taking damage from your opponent.
- Inner Self: Instantly declare a Spell Card without a character cut-in.
- Essence: When grazing projectiles, every graze will converted into spell gauge, with each graze grants you 25 points spell power.
- Shadow: Grants you a full and unlimited spell gauge for a while, in exchange of reduced health when declaring a Spell Card.

If a character has at least 4 flowers of soul, they can spend all of them to use their Last Word. The more flowers of soul spent, the higher the damage.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on March 27, 2017, 04:22:24 pm
No, both this and what is likely ZUN's next game seem to be scheduled for demos at Reitaisai in May.

ZUN's next game? Like an actual shooter again?

That's very neat. I hope they finally fix the issues of HM and ULiL, add a lil' bit of the depth Soku had in terms of cards and the like and we'll have a good fighter.

Given they both appear to be undergoing development in the same frame of time, would it be unrealistic to expect characters of 16 in 15.5?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrystalCreation on March 27, 2017, 04:48:24 pm
I think it‘s safe to assume the battle mechanics are going to be similar to how they were teased with Reimu and Mokou. In Ulil extra only Reimus body took part in the battle with Mokous body still being somewhere in the bamboo forest. But at some point Mokous soul(?) took over Reimus body. After the fight Reimu regained control over her body, but she still suffered from the burns Mokou gave ‘herself’ during the fight. In other words, Reimus body took Mokous ‘damage’.

So a 2 vs. 2 fighting system or an assist system would seem very unlikely since each team has only access to one body during the battle. I expect the fighting teams in AoCF to be able to switch fighters mid battle, but they will use the same lifebar since they use the same body.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on March 28, 2017, 12:02:27 pm
I think it‘s safe to assume the battle mechanics are going to be similar to how they were teased with Reimu and Mokou. In ULiL extra, only Reimu's body took part in the battle, with Mokou's body still being somewhere in the bamboo forest. But at some point Mokou's soul(?) took over Reimu's body. After the fight, Reimu regained control over her body, but she still suffered from the burns Mokou gave ‘herself’ during the fight. In other words, Reimu's body took Mokou's ‘damage’.

So, a 2 vs. 2 fighting system or an assist system would seem very unlikely since each team has only access to one body during the battle. I expect the fighting teams in AoCF to be able to switch fighters mid battle, but they will use the same life bar since they use the same body.

That's sound plausible. But then again, the game will focused on pair, similar to Imperishable Night; a team with two individuals with different personalities must work together to solve the Perfect Possession incident. No matter if they like it or not, voluntarily or involuntarily. Each pair have their own method to solve the incident.

Speaking of that, I re-read the premise of the game's story. But I found the most interesting thing about this part: "those who exploit it, those unwittingly dragged into it, and those working to expose the threat behind it..."

Let's say in AoCF, the complete cast of ULiL re-appear in this installment, along with some unexpected characters and newcomers alike. However, because the story itself sets between LoLK and the yet to be announced 16th main game, we can assume some LoLK character will join the fray. Here's some characters who keep their eyes open on this Perfect Possession:
- "Those who exploit it": Some participants who involved in Perfect Possession incident just for curiosity, to increase their fame, to fulfill their own goals, or just for the hell of it; such as Byakuren, Miko, Nitori, Koishi, Mamizou, Shinmyoumaru, Junko, Hecatia, and of course the main perpetrator(s) of the incident.
- "Those unwittingly dragged into it": Some participants who remain neutral from this matter, but unfortunately they forced to be involved in the incident; such as Ichirin, Futo, Kokoro, Mokou, Reisen, and possibly Sagume, along with Seiran, Ringo or even Clownpiece.
- "Those working to expose the threat behind it": As per tradition, it's Reimu and/or Marisa. Apart from that, we can expect other incident resolvers (AKA Stage 5 boss turned playable character in main games) will join the fray like Sanae, Sakuya or Youmu. Others who want to resolve this incident are Kasen and possibly Sumireko, the latter is trying to make up for what she's done in ULiL.

In regards of LoLK casts join into AoCF:
- If Sagume joins the roster, then we can expect the story will focused on how she tries to clean up the mess she done during the events of ULiL and LoLK. However, as andykhang said, ZUN doesn't like putting an overpowered foreinger into the roster. Instead, she will entrust her duties to Seiran and Ringo on her stead. But then again, we can only wait for a confirmation from ZUN.
- If Junko and/or Hecatia join the roster, we can expect the reason why they involved in Perfect Possession incident just for continuing their plan to avenge their respective relative's death towards Chang'e.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Clarste on March 31, 2017, 05:26:34 am
- If Junko and/or Hecatia join the roster, we can expect the reason why they involved in Perfect Possession incident just for continuing their plan to avenge their respective relative's death towards Chang'e.

Hecatia doesn't actually care about Apollo, that was just an excuse to help her friend Junko take on the moon. And as revealed in AFiEU, Hecatia also just hates the Lunar Capital as a concept.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on April 04, 2017, 08:04:21 am
Little more info from THproject Archival here (https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1873271959627173&substory_index=0&id=1638787029742335).
Ghost tail? Mima confirmed.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on April 04, 2017, 08:34:41 am
Link doesn't go anywhere.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 04, 2017, 08:40:49 am
The content is essentially this posting of Tasofro's circle cut:
https://twitter.com/A_kotiya/status/849036976175042561
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on April 04, 2017, 01:38:08 pm
¿It's too early to start with the annual Mima jokes? I'd rather not but at this point is just a meme.

Like Reisen.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 05, 2017, 01:57:29 am
Found this official(?) art while strolling around a Taiwanese forum (Drake's link went dead on my PC, so I can't see if its the same pic as this one):

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/coleblog/imgs/5/a/5a6e04ae.jpg

(Yes, I know the link goes to a Japanese website, but I stumbled upon it in the aforementioned Taiwanese forum)

Drawn by Twilight Frontier, and tagged as Antinomy of Common Flowers.

That's Reimu...with a ghost tail instead of human legs...
Even if that's not Mima taking on Reimu's appearance, the ghost tail could be a clue to what the final boss of AoCF might be, species wise.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on April 05, 2017, 02:53:57 am
Unless we know the source of the picture, I'm more in #TeamFake. It looks like fanart because, if I'm looking at other names beside it, it gives me that vibe.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 05, 2017, 03:22:11 am
Unless we know the source of the picture, I'm more in #TeamFake. It looks like fanart because, if I'm looking at other names beside it, it gives me that vibe.

The artist name tagged on the picture is tagged as Twilight Frontier. The Renko picture directly below is tagged as Azuma Aya, and the art style is consistent with WAHH. So its very unlikely to be fanart.
In addition, what would inspire a fanartist to draw Reimu, of all people, with a ghost tail, for no apparent reason? This makes it even less likely to be fake.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 05, 2017, 03:48:22 am
Unless we know the source of the picture, I'm more in #TeamFake. It looks like fanart because, if I'm looking at other names beside it, it gives me that vibe.
It's the same as the one in here:
The content is essentially this posting of Tasofro's circle cut:
https://twitter.com/A_kotiya/status/849036976175042561
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: monhan on April 05, 2017, 03:58:13 am
Unless we know the source of the picture, I'm more in #TeamFake. It looks like fanart because, if I'm looking at other names beside it, it gives me that vibe.

The source for that photo is from the Event Catalogue of Reitaisai 14, which will be released on April 8th
https://twitter.com/HakureijinjyaS/status/848785809079541760
https://twitter.com/HakureijinjyaS/status/848795525541380096
https://www.melonbooks.co.jp/detail/detail.php?product_id=212690

Some people have received a copy early, and a photo of the participating Circle Lists got leaked.
https://twitter.com/rikatantan/status/848407000744472576

The circle lists feature respective circles' circle cut, which is usually a preview/tease of what their new works will be.
And like Drake has mentioned, Tasofro's circle cut features a Ghostly Reimu with AoCF title.
https://twitter.com/A_kotiya/status/849036976175042561

It's true that there's no way for me to assure you that it can't be a fake art, but there is a source where you may find that info.

To be absolutely sure, then you have to get the catalogue and check it yourself. Those that will attend the event like N-Forza and Helepolis should get theirs by the 8th, so you can try asking them.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 05, 2017, 04:04:10 am
The artist name tagged on the picture is tagged as Twilight Frontier. The Renko picture directly below is tagged as Azuma Aya, and the art style is consistent with WAHH. So its very unlikely to be fanart.
In addition, what would inspire a fanartist to draw Reimu, of all people, with a ghost tail, for no apparent reason? This makes it even less likely to be fake.
The same reason someone drew this:
https://touch.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=59204697

But yeah, I do think it's real.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 05, 2017, 04:42:13 am
Is it supposed to be strange that it's Reimu with a ghostly tail? The whole theme of the game is the body possession, which we already know seems to happen when a dream soul enters another body, or at least a similar mechanism. It already fits thematically...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on April 05, 2017, 08:34:31 am
Yeah, and since it's directly from the catalog (advance copies were sold last weekend at a Touhou event in Nagoya), the cut is legit.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 05, 2017, 01:23:51 pm
Is it supposed to be strange that it's Reimu with a ghostly tail? The whole theme of the game is the body possession, which we already know seems to happen when a dream soul enters another body, or at least a similar mechanism. It already fits thematically...

And yet, we can expect one or two newcomers have an ability to transfer one soul to another body.

Even if that's not Mima taking on Reimu's appearance, the ghost tail could be a clue to what the final boss of AoCF might be, species wise.

Either another ghost like Yuyuko, or maybe the game will introduce a new species such as homunculus.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on April 05, 2017, 09:20:59 pm
Some new ghost 2hu would be pretty cool actually.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on April 05, 2017, 10:33:56 pm
OK, ok guys, proving me wrong once was enough >.<

I didn't even know that this kind of book existed. Geez.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ZM on April 06, 2017, 04:06:03 am
OK, ok guys, proving me wrong once was enough >.<

I didn't even know that this kind of book existed. Geez.

It's not like anyone was rude to you in their responses. They just calmly pointed out that the cut isn't fake, is all.

Anyway, where's th16? I'm itching to try out something new.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 06, 2017, 04:54:23 am
It's not like anyone was rude to you in their responses. They just calmly pointed out that the cut isn't fake, is all.

Anyway, where's th16? I'm itching to try out something new.
ZUN tends to be quiet about his games until week before release.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Spotty Len on April 06, 2017, 05:39:15 am
ZUN said he's working on it. I'm expecting it this year, maybe it's trial during Reitaisai and full version for Comiket right after.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 06, 2017, 07:59:37 am
I remember him saying it will be out before 15.5.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on April 06, 2017, 08:44:08 am
Speaking of it, did he actually specify it was a game the thing he was working on? Because if he only said he was doing "something" then maybe he was talking about Alternative Facts and not a game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 06, 2017, 11:30:51 am
To sum up some evidence, ZUN made some comments back in November's Nikenme Radio that suggested he was working on a game. He's also said before that his dev cycles are usually about four months of work, which corresponds roughly to a spring release. Then in January's Nikenme, he said he would be releasing something at Reitaisai. Lastly, when he tweeted about Poripori Club last week he was mildly irritated that he was invited abruptly despite being in crunch time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on April 06, 2017, 12:25:40 pm
Thank you, good to know!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on April 07, 2017, 12:49:30 pm
It's not like anyone was rude to you in their responses. They just calmly pointed out that the cut isn't fake, is all.
I just felt people just... put more and more "Shame on you to think that it's fake!"
That's the feeling I get but I would understand that nobody wanted to do that.

And now we return to the topic...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 07, 2017, 05:01:26 pm
I just felt people just... put more and more "Shame on you to think that it's fake!"
That's the feeling I get but I would understand that nobody wanted to do that.

And now we return to the topic...

shhh~ look on the bright siiiide

if you didn't make that mistake, we wouldn't have had the current discussions that we had now !

but... back tew the topic...

AoCF hype?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Failure McFailFace on April 07, 2017, 08:05:04 pm
I'm honestly not that hyped. I'm more of a shooter person, and the fighting game controls in general are really floaty or require precise inputs, both in the IaMP engine and the HM engine. HM and on not so much, since spells are declared like specials in Smash Bros, but the usual attacks still require complicated inputs.

This is also the 3rd fighting game in 3 game numbers (13.5, 14.5, 15.5). I'm getting a little sick of fighting games and just waiting for TH16 and new shooters to come out.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on April 07, 2017, 08:15:48 pm
The picture wants me to have the character you are not playing as float next to the character as a ghost.

Also to have Tojiko as a playable character. Double the ghost, triple the tail
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on April 07, 2017, 11:12:13 pm
Imo, I'm looking forward to the lore it brings. After all, I'm in the Touhou fandom mainly for the mangas and the lore haha.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on April 08, 2017, 03:20:35 am
I'm honestly not that hyped. I'm more of a shooter person, and the fighting game controls in general are really floaty or require precise inputs, both in the IaMP engine and the HM engine. HM and on not so much, since spells are declared like specials in Smash Bros, but the usual attacks still require complicated inputs.

This is also the 3rd fighting game in 3 game numbers (13.5, 14.5, 15.5). I'm getting a little sick of fighting games and just waiting for TH16 and new shooters to come out.
Huh? HM and ULiL don't have "complicated" fighter inputs. All the usual attacks are a single direction and a button, just like Smash. I don't expect AoCF to be any different.
Also what do you mean by floaty? Input lag can be solved by disabling VSync and/or playing Windowed, and airdashes allow for very flexibile mobility.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on April 14, 2017, 06:15:37 am
The lore + sprites + maybe music?? is definitely why anyone's excited since the game itself is 99% likely to be a dumpster fire, even for fighting game enthusiasts.

HM was a awful foundation, and then ULiL completely failed to do anything meaningful to salvage it. They have merit as con games, but there's absolutely no lasting appeal since Tasofro either refuses to or is incapable of balancing a lane-based fighter.

I really want to be surprised by ACoF, but their track record has been so awful I'm starting to wonder if Hisoutensoku was just a fluke :(
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on April 14, 2017, 11:18:40 am
IMO 'soku still was a big step back from IaMP other than being more accessible; yes, the accessibility of play was nice (IaMP could be pretty tough to learn, I won't beat around that bush), but I really didn't like having to draw my MAIN SKILLS from a random deck of cards and not even be able to start with them, weather was a thing (typhoon...), and I recall complaints about stuff like wrongblock being implemented in a dumb fashion where it's almost better for the person blocking, along with other things. But my main gripe was definitely the card deck- customization was cool, but I'd much rather have it HM-style (for all it's flaws, that part wasn't bad) where I'm just choosing what it is and that's that.

But, well, 'soku was still playable long-term. HM was a mess and ULiL, well... ULiL was -better- but it still wasn't exactly a great game. It was at least refined enough to be more reliably enjoyable but the system was still not exactly terribly great. It was a good improvement, but the starting point was so bad. :T

Unfortunately we can pretty much confirm they're keeping all the sprites they made since they're keeping current cast and adding onto it, which means the characters need to be flying again. It's possible they just keep it thematically mid-air but remove the "below-ground" lane entirely, I suppose. More likely we'll be hoping they find a way to make the system more fun, once again. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised! Regardless of what happens I'll be giving it the good 'ol try and learning a couple characters, and I'll see how it goes.

Tasofro's not bad at making fighters, but the problem is just their great desire to make a doofy flying fighter. They said in an interview they satisfied that itch with making ULiL from HM feedback, so, we'll see.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Spotty Len on April 14, 2017, 05:25:07 pm
I just want a way to disable random stuff during a match. I was quite satisfied with ULiL, really, I liked labbing it and finding combos, and Shinmyoumaru is in it, so I couldn't really complain.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 14, 2017, 05:52:50 pm
Hisoutensoku is a terrible game and its randomization up the ass can go fuck itself. I'm glad we're not going back to that ever again.

They just need to remove the little random elements that are left (the weather) and AoCF could easily be the best Touhou fighter.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nyxnyx on April 14, 2017, 11:01:26 pm
What's so bad about the flying fighter games? I don't really play fighting games so I don't understand what's all the fuss about.

Someone educate me?  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on April 15, 2017, 11:37:56 am
What's so bad about the flying fighter games? I don't really play fighting games so I don't understand what's all the fuss about.

Someone educate me?  :3

I've never played Soku/HM/ULiL at a competitive level but as far as I know, HM had some terrible design decisions and overall a floppy character control. It was also relesased unfinished (Kokoro wasn't fully playable till August if I remember correctly).
I wouldn't be surprised if some people complained about the lack of pre-MoF characters, but I'm not totally sure.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ILikeBulletZ on April 15, 2017, 06:11:27 pm
I HATE the floaty controls from HM onwards, and as a result I absolutely refuse to play these games.

Its really as simple as that.
I am not much of a fan of the fighting game genre as well. Its probably the genre I like the least. But At least the pre-HM fighters had good controls.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on April 15, 2017, 06:19:07 pm
The issues with ULiL (and I'm going to focus on it here since it's basically Better HM) are that it' A) broken on a fundamental level and B) really poorly balanced.

Note that neither of these issues apply if you use it as a casual fighting game with your friends. In that aspect, it at least succeeds where HM never did. These issues all simply apply on the competitive level (i.e. more than a handful of matches once every few weeks).

A) The game is a three-lane fighter with no throws, no high-low mix-ups, no border escape, and no charged melee. The only way to break guards is a blockstring that forces a crush. Without meter, since blocking is so easy you're never getting meter. And if you can crush a guard, then the other player has no option but to take it since there are no border escapes.

This leads to B) As a result, characters can be sorted into two camps: Those who can actually break blocks with their strings, and those who cannot. The former completely dumpsters on the latter (to the point where an incredible amount of match-ups in the game are 9:1, meaning that one of the characters will win 90% of the time assuming equal skill), and the latter going against its own kind turns into really boring block-fests where the first person who can land a few hits can just run down the clock since neither person can actually break a guard, turning literally every match into a forced 50-50 (who lands the first hit?).  And even if the question becomes "well then, why not have everyone just play high tiers?", 1) the game becomes just Ichirin, Kokoro, and Byakuren (since they're exceptionally poorly balanced) which is boring as fuck from a diversity standpoint, and 2) these characters can end the game in about two combos or so, which is also boring as fuck.


ACoF would have to make a sweeping number of changes to fix the fundamental flaws that ULiL has, and I'm not sure they have any real interest in that. So it'l probably be doomed to maybe being played at cons and with friends in the west, since the lack of competitiveness means that there's not gonna be a community around it. (Also very people like the three-lane system, even if it was tightened up a lot in ULiL)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on April 15, 2017, 11:42:28 pm
There is a method of escaping blockstun in ULiL though - defensive declaration. No doubt Tasofro is gonna take the reasons they implemented it for into consideration and either keep it or introduce another measure to make all blockstrings escapable in AoCF. Barrier guard is a thing as well.

Also, there's no use treating a fighting game like a solved tabletop game with perfect answers to situations. Not only people make and will make mistakes under pressure, but even against the characters with bad pressure, you will have to take the risk and try to escape sooner or later or suffer a guard crush - every character can apply stagger blockstrings (frame traps) and decide when to dash in for a reset, so it's just a matter of predictability. A different type of 50/50, but still a 50/50. It also helps that there are no non-spellcard invulnerable reversals save for Koishi's Fidgety Snatcher in the game.

HM did have an additional measure that forced people to not sit blocking and running away on HP advantage all the time (they would lose the round via popularity on timeout), but Tasofro decided against bringing it back for ULiL as it wasn't really necessary - I saw enough Tenco replays back in the day to know that the win ratio of any matchup isn't even close to 9:1. And this is coming from a Sanae 12.3 player, who also has to stagger pressure all the time by virtue of her having nothing tight to work with on the offensive xD.

Hell, if Tasofro really wanted to kill any potential extreme turtling strategies, they only would have to do the simplest thing and remove the timer, as it is no longer needed for popularity. In IaMP, you could absolutely not kill a blocking opponent, so a match could potentially last an eternity - and yet I've never seen that being a problem, as you won't win the game via blocking either, and thus will have to take the risk sooner on later - and in ULiL, you can kill a blocking opponent via a guard crush. The only problem that would pose is if they ever wanted to bring Touhou fighters into real arcade cabinets, where you need the timer.

As for the flying ground system being a turnoff, you might have a point. But the Touhou fighters never were your typical airdashers to begin with, with the bullet graze mechanics - so taking one another experimental step shouldn't drive away fighting game purists, who were never the target in the first place.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: The Anti-Person on April 16, 2017, 12:55:54 pm
I don't have any evidence about these characters but I'm p. sure the last words will still be urban legend related. So, here are some non-ULiL characters with relatable urban legends:
Sakuya Izayoi - Jack the Ripper
Remilia Scarlet - Bloody Mary
Alice Margatroid - Okiku Doll (different story from Okiku and the 9 Plates)
Lunasa Prismriver - Lavender Town Suicides
Yuyuko Saigyouji - Aokigahara (I know it's a real place and that there are lots of suicides there)
Yukari Yakumo - Teke Teke (trains)
Sanae Kochiya - Any urban legend (miracles happen)
Rin Kaenbyou - Tomino's Hell or Shichiinin Misaki
Utsuho Reiuji - Mutations of Chernobyl
Murasa Minamitsu - Bermuda Triangle
Nue Houjuu - Any urban legend (look at her Double Spoiler spellcards)
Seiga Kaku -Shichinin Misaki
Soga no Tojiko - Shichinin Misaki
Clownpiece - Supermoon's Lunatic Effect

The final boss will probably use an urban legend related to Misakis and the only one is the Shichinin Misaki. (which I connected to 3 different characters)

True in my opinion the most chance goes to Seiga, Tojiko and Clownpiece to return.

And also remember the fact that there is no silhouette, so the final boss might not actually be a new character.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 16, 2017, 01:09:44 pm
Lunasa Prismriver - Lavender Town Suicides
And also remember the fact that there is no silhouette, so the final boss might not actually be a new character.
I don't think Nintendo and GameFreak will allow ZUN and Tasofro to reference stuff from their games.

And the game's actual cover hasn't been shown yet.  Where are you getting the silhouette from?
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 16, 2017, 01:40:01 pm
Lunasa Prismriver - Lavender Town Suicides

Maybe Gloomy Sunday is more suitable for Lunasa?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 16, 2017, 01:51:12 pm
And also remember the fact that there is no silhouette, so the final boss might not actually be a new character.

Truth be told, every main games and interquel fighting games (any .5 titles) has at least a silhouette preview of the final boss of the game's jewel case, and AoCF is no exception.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on April 16, 2017, 03:32:45 pm
-snip-

The issue is that, without those added complexities that IaMP/SWR/Hisou had, ULiL is effectively a solved game.

http://tenco.info/game/6/type1_vs_type1_stats/

Here. I'll let the stats do the talking for me. For reference, http://tenco.info/game/2/type1_vs_type1_stats/ here are Hisouteonsoku's stats.

These match-up stats aren't weighted (which is why nothing quite hits the 8:2 or 9:1 level since those levels of MU dispariites only happen at high levels), but they're an easy at-a-glance representation of how utterly unbalanced ULiL is 2 years in - more than enough time to reach the point of meta.  Even killing off the turtling issues wouldn't be sufficient to fix the extreme levels of imbalance that exist within the cast, and I don't really have confidence in tasofro to do that after two games in a row of exceptionally poor balance.


Also the silhouette isn't shown until the jewel case is shown. This has been the case for every game up until this point - the logo's always been teased first, then the silhouette and jewel case are shown w/ the trial version.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 16, 2017, 09:11:56 pm
lotta people who don't regularly play fighters see strong corner pressure and are just, well, this is ugly/awful/dumb/bad. they're not necessarily wrong, but... the fact of the matter is that, in a well-designed one, to get into that situation in the first place you had to have done several wrong guesses in a row beforehand. 'two combos ends the match' doesn't state how much work it is to get those two combos going on anyone who knows how to defend against their midscreen game, you know?

most of my issue with soku wasn't the randomness, which is still bad, just not the worst part of the game, but that the modified cancel system (strict A->B->C, delayed movement cancel timings) simplified footsies dramatically, so the game you played to avoid getting stuck into these situations got dramatically less interesting while also putting more emphasis on the corner game itself. border escapes were just a bad band-aid over a system that didn't work.

tenco's charts have never been useful since they don't break down by skill levels. balance varies dramatically based on the levels of the players involved; it's a moving target and not something absolute and global. and tbh, iamp's gotten to the point where sakuya/marisa/alice are so undeniably above everyone else at the high end it's not like i can make a claim towards good balance for that game, either. it had a good run tho.

imo, tasofro is making the correct games for the audience touhou has currently. don't worry so much about competitive balance and enjoy them for what they are.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on April 17, 2017, 01:37:57 am
I have to say that I'm absolutely looking forward to ACoF as a single player thing and maybe a romp with friends. In that regard, ULiL was an enjoyable experience as it didn't feel like total shit to play like HM did. I also agree that this is the right decision for them to make for the fighting games moving forward. But at the same time, I can't help but feel that the goal of a fighter that has lasting appeal and the goal of one that's fun for a single player/casual experience are not incompatible, and feel some frustration at Tasofro's lack of attempts to balance the game to allow for some longevity.

Tenco's stats are horribly unweighted, yes (and are further diminished in use by the lack of resets ever), but even then no fighting game intended to be played competitively should have the completely outlandish w/l rates ULiL has. I also chose to use it instead of the more refined MU ratios you can get from talking to people in the know + looking at individual profiles of high ranking players since that's well outside of the scope of a simple post arguing "hold your horses, ULiL is actually pretty bad."

like wtf Miko has 7 match-ups with sub 40% win-rates, Marisa has 11 that are well above an already outlandish 55%, and Byakuren has 9 above 55%. None of these numbers should ever happen, much less all three at once combined with the shitshow that the game becomes if you assume both players are high level. I absolutely agree that balance is a moving target, but ULiL shows they flat out don't care about balance, they just want to make a doofy air/3-lane fighter (arguably Hisou was even a lucky exception here since it's full of useless or dumb shit). Which is ultimately fine, I just wish they'd actually balance it. But that's just a nice bonus and far from necessary, and I'll probably buy ACoF either way (though probably wait a month or two for them to inevitably patch it like sixty times.).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on April 17, 2017, 05:49:11 am
Uhh question. Do those stats take patches into account? Because Marisa used to be god tier in the initial versions, but now she's not that great anymore since they destroyed her j.A.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 17, 2017, 06:58:58 am
tenco's charts are useless for a lot of reasons:

* they don't clear out per revision, as stated, so old data still populates the list
* there's no sliding window to indicate only recent game data, it's all or nothing
* they don't factor in relative skill levels in their scoring, which means popular newbie-smashing characters make it like ranking flowchart kens higher because newbies get blown up by it.
* many higher skilled players never bothered registering with tenco (TR comes to mind)
* shrinking playerbase means that the data that does show up is skewed towards the people that still play; eg if there's no serious players of character X, she will rank lower, or other characters will be over-represented.

the best you can say from that data is that marisa was popular for beating up players for some period of time, and that miko's harder to play than other characters.

really, most fighters have a few chars that bad or good, tbh. 'balance' was never really a prerequisite until the modern age when people scream up and down at seeing the same characters tournament after tournament. heck, it's only in the modern age that capcom's made even a token effort with SF4/SFV, without a whole lot of success tbh, as patches mostly just changed the top tiers around. ST(boxer/claw), A2(rose/chunli), A3(pffthahahaha), 3S(chun-li/yun/ken) weren't exactly without their problems. and then in games with big rosters you have the problem of, like, multiple characters all being good at the same general thing so you pick the one that's best at doing the thing.

you should be more concerned how the game flows/plays in a general sense at that tier than overall game balance, because honestly it just is not that relevant to most players.

iamp these days goes like sakuya/marisa/alice >> remilia/suika/reimu >>> give up ok look i guess you can play patchouli if you really like playing high APM >>>> meiling. it's pretty okay but finals are probably going to have one of those top three, and i can't say i'm too fond of what sak and alice turn the game into, in all honesty. and i guarantee if you took averages over all matches like tenco does, alice would come out looking garbage as you have to be amazing to play her at that level and there's only ever been a few who could do it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on April 17, 2017, 04:04:17 pm
Again, I don't necessarily disagree, but it's just to give at an-at-glance representation of how flawed the game is on any level, and that's literally the only easy graph that's out there to point to. The actual MUs are *way* worse, and it's like IaMP where it just devolves into the top 3 (Ichirin, Kokoro, Byakuren). Agaiin, I understand and fully agree they're horribly flawed, but it's the easiest way I can think of to provide a showcase of "why it's a bad game" in the face of counter-arguments  (and yeah, Marisa wouldn't be remotely as high as she is if people actually played post-patches and there was enough of a desire to set up actual community stats, which I suppose is the more damning take-away from this).

I'm more concerned with longevity personally, and balance is a huge part of that. Sure, every fighter tends to have one or two bad characters, and usually one or two utterly exceptional ones. At times, ones that even utterly break the game (hi akuma and you air fireballs how you doin). But ULiL devolves at any level into high tiers shit-stomping low tiers, and low tiers being utterly unfun to play (and it's a personal thing but the rocket tag nature of high level play isn't terribly fun either from what I've watched/had limited experience with since nobody plays it and the only way I can know about these MU numbers is asking questions and getting second-hand discussion). And yes, one can argue this is a problem of fighters of the present that never was one in the past, since in the past you had situations like MvC2 where it was just the top 4 and god forbid you try anyone else, but now roster balance/diversity is a real concern and that's the now. Sure, it's not really a concern at a lower level unless there's a particularly poor balancing effort, but it takes really devoted, invested players to set up a community, and that just won't happen if the balance is utter shite.

Though yeah I will fully concede that game flow/play is ultra important even before the step of "but what about roster balance" and many people were soured on the initial utter mess that HM was. But I feel like ULiL did make some real big upgrades to the fun aspect, and if they tightened it up more and did some serious balancing passes we could at least wind up with a fun distraction that gets enough interest for a acofroll and a modest player-base for a bit

aaand yeah there's two reasons I'm personally uninterested in trying to get into IaMP even though it has fewer RNG elements, and that's one of them. Other one being the player base is way hella tiny in comparison to hisou's, which is already p modest..
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 17, 2017, 10:09:36 pm
believe me i wouldn't recommend anyone get into iamp now, it's impossible for newcomers. i should know, i still don't lose matches to anyone who hasn't been playing 5+ years. (and i'd have to get back into serious practice if i wanted to get a win on any of the jp regulars! that's not happening.)

i don't think soku is bad, but it sees what i am looking for in the genre and runs in the opposite direction as hard as it can.

imo, it's more of a problem if the game is 'boring' than if it's 'bad.' hopeless's original sin was just being incredibly dull to actually play. the characters were flying around, doing fun things, but the player wasn't.

you can have fun with a game that respects the player's effort and time, even if the game itself is kind of jank/unbalanced/whatever. and that's all that's really important.

we'll see how this one turns out. personally i'll be happy if the demo runs without needing hacks this time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 20, 2017, 06:10:56 am
(https://s10.postimg.org/tp7wfxxnd/imageedit_6_8502187259.png)
We now *have* a silhouette, in case anyone was wondering.
EDIT: Never mind, that appears to be a troll, it seems.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 20, 2017, 09:17:01 am
It's fake?  Got me hyped for nothing...

But then, it too early for the jewel case to be shown.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 20, 2017, 10:38:45 am
At least it's just another 16 days before anything should happen.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 20, 2017, 04:30:40 pm
It's not like Ulil and HM are trash on the competitive perspective, even from a casual perspective I did not find these games fun at all. The wacky float fighter just doesnt work out and everything just feels so out of control...

All I'm hoping for is that AoCF will either refine the float system so badly that it'll actually be fun and/or a general change of basics.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 20, 2017, 11:51:36 pm
It's not like Ulil and HM are trash on the competitive perspective, even from a casual perspective I did not find these games fun at all. The wacky float fighter just doesnt work out and everything just feels so out of control...

All I'm hoping for is that AoCF will either refine the float system so badly that it'll actually be fun and/or a general change of basics.

Or we could hope that all characters' boots on the ground again; similar to IaMP, SWR and Soku, along with new features like taunt or stage hazard.

Story-wise, I hope this will concludes the urban legend incident with their respective urban legends will dissapear for good.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ZoomyTsugumi on April 21, 2017, 12:53:28 am
Never really understood the hate for the floaty system. Honestly I felt like it was really cool, and I specifically liked the fact that it made it feel like there was a whole lot more combo potential especially with switching between the lanes during them.  So many of the moves hit differently if you use them in each of the 3 lanes and then can string on with other attacks depending on where you are.

I want the timer gone for sure (or at least removable), and I'd love to have the HM customisable moveset back (with different properties for different placements too), and I'd honestly be happy with this.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 21, 2017, 03:15:25 am
combos are kind of easily the least interesting part of the genre if you're doing anything other than watching videos tho
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 21, 2017, 04:45:00 am
Even though uncompetitive, I do miss the Deck System. It added so much diversity to playing even a single character. Nothing like that feeling when you get *just* the right card in a tough moment.

Them putting their boots on the ground again wouldve been great, but since they already announced they'll reuse assets we'll likely have to deal with wacky float again.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 21, 2017, 04:54:35 am
the thing i'm most concerned about is the netplay.

HM and ULiL have horrible netplay. it's virtually unplayable. i really, really hope they fix that.

i love soku, but it'd be nice tew have something else for a game as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on April 21, 2017, 05:23:40 am
Excepting Japanese games that have no intention to expand beyond the domestic market where internet speeds are blazing fast and distances are negligible to have optimized netplay is vain hope.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on April 21, 2017, 06:04:42 am
Even though uncompetitive, I do miss the Deck System. It added so much diversity to playing even a single character. Nothing like that feeling when you get *just* the right card in a tough moment.
Actually, that's the kind of thing I want to actively avoid in a fighter. I'd rather have 100% control in my options, not just praying to RNG that I get a skill or SC at the right moment or not having it when I do need it, etc.

HM's deck system is probably my favourite though. It does the diversity thing except better.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on April 21, 2017, 07:49:38 am
For me, HM was virtually unplayable because no dash button :v

That said, ULiL was amazing and I have a lot of fun playing with a friend, even though both of us are terrible at fighting games.

If AoCF can improve upon ULiL, then we'll have no hesitation on switching over.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gray21oh on April 21, 2017, 02:25:49 pm
I'm definitely hoping that AoCF will be the next big Touhou fighter though ultimately I'm wondering if it can even break the mold of HM/ULiL's engine by being something people actively want to put time into and have some fan made lobby ala Hisoutensoku's Soku Lobby to circumvent the wonky netplay that's oh so wonky in general doujin games.

But who knows with how Soku is it'll REALLY have to prove itself. Which I hope it does cause good grief I really cannot get into Soku anymore and I wanna fight more people in ULiL (PS4 specifically because of all it's beautiful boons)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 22, 2017, 12:03:02 am
i actually felt the deck system completely destroyed any sort of meaningful play diversity.

i mean, look at the decks people actually chose? they were all basically variants on the same thing.

- strong characters chose cards that augmented their strengths
- average characters chose cards that covered their weaknesses
- weak characters chose cards because lol whatever it doesn't even matter

random elements in a fighting game exist to downplay the human element of skill, period, end of story. don't ever think for a second it's anything else. (you can argue that compensating for rng is a skill all itself, but remember that the primary goal is still compressing winrates.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 22, 2017, 04:52:05 am
I'm definitely hoping that AoCF will be the next big Touhou fighter though ultimately I'm wondering if it can even break the mold of HM/ULiL's engine by being something people actively want to put time into and have some fan made lobby ala Hisoutensoku's Soku Lobby to circumvent the wonky netplay that's oh so wonky in general doujin games.

But who knows with how Soku is it'll REALLY have to prove itself. Which I hope it does cause good grief I really cannot get into Soku anymore and I wanna fight more people in ULiL (PS4 specifically because of all it's beautiful boons)

I hope it's gonna big in some aspect, such as:

1. Character roster. Since AoCF is the continuation of ULiL and LoLK, all characters from the former are (obviously) return for AoCF. Because AoCF sets between LoLK and HSiFS, some characters from LoLK might appear in AoCF. Some new characters will included, both from previous games and newcomers alike. Yes, the latter includes the final boss i.e. the culprit of Perfect Possession incident. I expect about between 13 to 17 new characters will included in this game; some from previous games, some from LoLK and some are newcomers, and as for HM (with Ichirin, Nitori and Koishi) and ULiL (with Kasen and Mokou), expect the unexpected (read: minor) characters will appear in AoCF.

2. The story itself. AoCF might concludes the whole Urban Legend incident with each participants urban legend disappear for good, along with all of Occult Orbs. Although it would pay with a cost of their memories of strings of events from ULiL to AoCF.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on April 22, 2017, 05:19:37 am
There's nothing inherently floaty about a midair fighter. Tasofro could adjust the physics of AoCF to make it equally as responsive as IaMP or Soku.

They probably won't, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 22, 2017, 10:25:19 pm
i actually felt the deck system completely destroyed any sort of meaningful play diversity.

i mean, look at the decks people actually chose? they were all basically variants on the same thing.

- strong characters chose cards that augmented their strengths
- average characters chose cards that covered their weaknesses
- weak characters chose cards because lol whatever it doesn't even matter

random elements in a fighting game exist to downplay the human element of skill, period, end of story. don't ever think for a second it's anything else. (you can argue that compensating for rng is a skill all itself, but remember that the primary goal is still compressing winrates.)

Is the Deck System retarded in a competitive scenario? Totally. Randomness has no place in competitive.

On a more casual level, fucking around with a friend? Nope. RNG vs. friends online or local is a lot of fun, especially for these adrenaline pumped moments where you just get that max level card to destroy your buddy. This is also where the card system gives for a lot of variety.

In a perfect world, they'd keep the massive amount of cards and variety, have the RNG stuff *purely optional* in netplay/localplay, and allow you to set the sequence in which what cards are coming to you.

I also wouldn't downplay the card system like that, even in a competitive manner. What you said is true, but one might be able to make specific anti-air decks or something to counter specific opponents rather than going for a generalist deck.

I just dislike there being only a *single* card in ULiL per match.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on April 24, 2017, 10:48:57 am
Finally we see something! http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/index.html
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/system.html

Apparently you can choose the team members, although i suppose not in story mode.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2017, 11:42:55 am
(http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/img/ss00.jpg)

In this incident it's two-for-one?

The still-ongoing influence of the urban legends has brought about a new incident.
In this incident two people are one!? In that case, we'll have to resolve it together!

Create the baddest pair using Perfect Possession!

This is an incident where one person will spontaneously change places with somebody else, called "Perfect Possession".
The playable characters are paired up as "Master" and "Slave", and you can manipulate this designation at will.

The player will choose a pair of "Master" and "Slave", and will fight together while switching between each other as a danmaku tag battle.
A Slave can lend the Master her power, occasionally pull her out of a tough spot, and be disposed in times of emergency. Such duels of love, friendship and exploitation will soon unfold.



Note, it isn't particularly clear whether the phrasing for "choose a pair of Master and Slave" implies choosing individually or as a group, and translated it to mimic that ambiguity.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2017, 12:00:48 pm
The Master will borrow the Slave's power, and occasionally will get them out of a tough spot.
In times of emergency they are disposable, and a duel with this sort of love, friendship, and cynicism can be unfolded. (Please check this line)
Like Kyouko's interview in Alternative Facts, ブラック is still riffing on ブラック企業 black kigyou, a phrase ZUN has been really into for the recent years. Also these two lines are one sentence. So my hasty rendering as:

Quote
A Slave can lend the Master her power, occasionally pull her out of a tough spot, and be disposed in times of emergency. Such duels of love, friendship and exploitation will soon unfold.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2017, 12:12:22 pm
Yeah I understood the feeling it was going for, so cynicism still kinda works. Your rearrangement works better though so I'll be borrowing it <3
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2017, 12:16:55 pm
In case readers misunderstand, "Master" and "Slave" here are English loanwords. They are foremostly intended in the sense of mechanical terminology, similar to the master/slave hard drives in computers. This is a feature of Touhou's danmaku rules: it has inherited the traditional shmup mindset that refers to everything as sci-fi mecha.

E.g. player characters are called 自機 jiki "your own craft", and remaining lives are 残機 zanki "crafts remaining".

I think this English loanword "slave" first appeared in IN, though I may be wrong. In Grimoire of Marisa, Marisa showed an interest in them, and wanted to experiment on improving her own, which resulted in her GFW spell card Magic Bullets "Test Slave".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2017, 12:22:36 pm
That being said, the naming is so incidentally perfect of a double-entendre that I can't help but think it's naturally going to become a theme in the fandom

EDIT: Yeah I did mean that it's intentional (not "coincidental", but that the situation fits). It's just too good for this context.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 24, 2017, 12:30:57 pm
So it sounds like it's an assist system rather than a Mavhel tag system? Or am I reading it wrong?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2017, 12:32:20 pm
That being said, the naming is so incidentally perfect of a double-entendre that I can't help but think it's naturally going to become a theme in the fandom
Of course it's wholly intentional. Grimoire of Marisa used the kanji word 奴隷 dorei after all.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 24, 2017, 12:35:02 pm
Glad there is no awkward ping pong urban legends thing going on anymore, although I really hope you wont constantly have your "slave" on screen, imagine the visual clutter.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on April 24, 2017, 12:35:11 pm
It sounds a whole lot like Mystical Chain to me. It may involve both assists and tag-teaming. (Of course, also like Skullgirls, potentially.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on April 24, 2017, 12:39:55 pm
Glad there is no awkward ping pong urban legends thing going on anymore, although I really hope you wont constantly have your "slave" on screen, imagine the visual clutter.

Reisen (Mokou's assist) isn't on-screen in that screenshot, so I can't imagine this will be an issue.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2017, 12:42:34 pm
Create the unluckiest pair using Perfect Possession!
[Here "unluckiest" (最凶) is a homonym for "strongest" (最強)]

Actually 凶 here doesn't mean "bad luck", but 凶悪 - "vicious, threatening".  Apparently (http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E6%9C%80%E5%87%B6) using it as a pun on "strongest" is an established manga copy-writing cliche. You can translate it as, say, "baddest", "most brutal".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2017, 12:49:09 pm
It sounds a whole lot like Mystical Chain to me. It may involve both assists and tag-teaming. (Of course, also like Skullgirls, potentially.)
That is what it seems to be. In the screenshot Reimu has activated Perfect Possession with Marisa, and they are using both Musou Fuuin and Master Spark.

although I really hope you wont constantly have your "slave" on screen, imagine the visual clutter.
Reisen isn't on screen, so assumedly not. Marisa is the Slave there.

Actually 凶 here doesn't mean "bad luck", but 凶悪 - threatening.  Apparently (http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E6%9C%80%E5%87%B6) using it as a pun on "strongest" is an established manga copy-writing cliche. You can translate it as, say, "baddest", "most brutal".
I was just pointed this out elsewhere. I considered "most fearsome" but "baddest" is funny so I'll use that.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2017, 12:59:21 pm
I was just pointed this out elsewhere. I considered "most fearsome" but "baddest" is funny so I'll use that.
ZUN just made a tweet (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/856486145328271361) using the tagline of 最凶の二人を選ぼうぜ! "Choose the baddest duo!"

I'm getting the feeling there really is a hidden sense of "unlucky" here.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2017, 01:04:58 pm
I first used unlucky as though 最凶 were an omikuji reading and also to reflect the synopsis' usage of "the bittersweet story of those that think they're the strongest duo". It'll be interesting if that assessment actually turns out to be the case.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on April 24, 2017, 01:21:08 pm
If this is some kind of supporting mechanic, that would be awesome. Kek, I'm gonna pair up with my mains, Kokoro and Mokou.

And about ZUN's tweet, my bing translation says something about "choose the two evil" or something like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2017, 01:32:43 pm
bing is bad
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on April 24, 2017, 02:08:17 pm
bing is bad

Exactly. But it's kinda, at the very least, close to the translations everyone has presented so far, like...

Actually 凶 here doesn't mean "bad luck", but 凶悪 - threatening.  Apparently (http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E6%9C%80%E5%87%B6) using it as a pun on "strongest" is an established manga copy-writing cliche. You can translate it as, say, "baddest", "most brutal".

But hey, there are a lot of possibilities though.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 24, 2017, 02:22:54 pm
ohhh ! omoshiroi... !!!

this reminds me of the shikigami-system from the Toho Rpg, "Devil of Decline"!

i'm excited for this turnout! 5/7, full speed aheaaaad..... !
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Tsalop on April 24, 2017, 03:15:31 pm
Poor Reisen, she has barely recovered from being shipped with the obsessive widow from the Moon and now she is going to become Mokous plaything.

Anyway the pairing system sounds interesting and I really hope they will bring back some older characters to expand the roster...
Though most likely in the initial version we only have the characters that has been introduced in the previous two fighters.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on April 24, 2017, 03:33:03 pm
So it sounds like it's an assist system rather than a Mavhel tag system? Or am I reading it wrong?

I don't think so, due to the following line:
The player will choose a pair of "Master" and "Slave", and will fight together while switching between each other as a danmaku tag battle.

Unless this is mistranslated, we can switch between the two characters.

Glad there is no awkward ping pong urban legends thing going on anymore, although I really hope you wont constantly have your "slave" on screen, imagine the visual clutter.
Was this confirmed? I mean I'd be really happy if this is the case because the "smash ball" type occult system was something I hated the most about it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on April 24, 2017, 03:46:06 pm
Hey guys. So as obvious that it could seem, there are two spellcards combined for an attack. So I've been wondering which spellcards would be dang OP. Unless if I'm wrong then you can ignore this.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on April 24, 2017, 04:20:35 pm
Not to be a party pooper, but spellcards were quite the screen fillers by themselves, so I feel that having two fired off at the same time will be MUGEN-level ridiculous.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Spotty Len on April 24, 2017, 04:27:42 pm
Oh man, Tag Combos, I was really hoping those would happen. Please don't screw this up, Tasofro.

Was this confirmed? I mean I'd be really happy if this is the case because the "smash ball" type occult system was something I hated the most about it.
There doesn't seem to be a gauge about it, so I'm guessing those won't appear anymore.

Not to be a party pooper, but spellcards were quite the screen fillers by themselves, so I feel that having two fired off at the same time will be MUGEN-level ridiculous.
Can't be worse than Marvel vs Capcom 3.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 24, 2017, 06:29:24 pm
The tag system looks to me similar to the system used Marvel. Partner can be brought as an assist, for a group super or tagged with for tag combos.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 24, 2017, 06:52:13 pm
Yeah, I'd go with Baddest Duo myself too. 最凶 would be, like, a thing that you meet that would be the worst possible luck to do so, and since it'd be pronounced the same as Saikyou(最強)/Strongest, it gets used in manga a fair bit for exactly the reasons you'd expect.

So what they're saying is, you should pick a top tier when this comes out. Canon.

i swear if they add cirno to this game too i'm going to be so mad
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on April 24, 2017, 07:07:13 pm
Well I already know I'm gonna go with team KoiKoro, best friends(?) forever :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 24, 2017, 07:14:57 pm
if i want to do dumb chara speculation it's that a game about repeatedly reversing leadership would probably have seija
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 24, 2017, 07:52:47 pm
It was already confirmed that the only new characters are going to be ones that werent available so far in Fighters.

The fact that its obviously another floater makes me kinda sad, but im optimistic theyll get it right this time. Meme balls gone are already a good enough sign to get me optimistic.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Matiasalb on April 24, 2017, 08:59:13 pm
I think two new charas, plus Sagume, Kaguya and nue? can be plausible. Kaguya was going to be in a fighter(SWR, if I don't recall wrong) so it would make sense, and Sagume was the one responsible of all the urban legend stuff, plus she is the new book. The pairs in the story mode could be something like this: MariNito, Reishin, SagumexReisen, MokouxKaguya, Hijimiko, ichifuto, Koikoko, KasenxSuminerdko, the two news, Maminue.
tl;dr some fandom favorites return in a plottwist no one could see coming, like Kisune, Tokiko, Kosuzu, that kappa that appears in WaHH and a new one. After tanned Cirno being the champion of Summer, nothing will surprise me anymore.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 24, 2017, 09:00:46 pm
It was already confirmed that the only new characters are going to be ones that werent available so far in Fighters.

The fact that it's obviously another floater makes me kinda sad, but I'm optimistic they'll get it right this time. Meme balls gone are already a good enough sign to get me optimistic.

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of interquel fighters, but I would like to see the "Urban Legend incident" will finished for good, coupled with some improvements here and there, in terms of flight system.

I also expect when it comes to a certain team in the game, each characters has their own shared character themes. Not unlike Len'en's RMI.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 24, 2017, 09:01:55 pm
I think two new charas, plus Sagume, Kaguya and nue? can be plausible. Kaguya was going to be in a fighter(SWR, if I don't recall wrong) so it would make sense, and Sagume was the one responsible of all the urban legend stuff, plus she is the new book. The pairs in the story mode could be something like this: MariNito, Reishin, SagumexReisen, MokouxKaguya, Hijimiko, ichifuto, Koikoko, KasenxSuminerdko, the two news, Maminue.
tl;dr some fandom favorites return in a plottwist no one could see coming, like Kisune, Tokiko, Kosuzu, that kappa that appears in WaHH and a new one. After tanned Cirno being the champion of Summer, nothing will surprise me anymore.
Some of those teams make no real sense unless the characters in question find themselves forced to team up for one reason or another (SaguReisen, MokoKagu, Hijimiko, Ichifuto most notably.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 24, 2017, 10:50:23 pm
I think two new charas, plus Sagume, Kaguya and Nue? Can be plausible. Kaguya was going to be in a fighter (SWR, if I don't recall wrong) so it would make sense, and Sagume was the one responsible of all the urban legend stuff, plus she is the new book. The pairs in the story mode could be something like this: MariNito, ReiShin, SagumexReisen, MokouxKaguya, HijiMiko, IchiFuto, KoiKoko, KasenxSuminerdko, the two news, MamiNue.
tl;dr some fandom favorites return in a plot twist no one could see coming, like Kisune, Tokiko, Kosuzu, that kappa that appears in WaHH and a new one. After tanned Cirno being the champion of Summer, nothing will surprise me anymore.

Some of those teams make no real sense unless the characters in question find themselves forced to team up for one reason or another (SaguReisen, MokoKagu, Hijimiko, Ichifuto most notably.)

For what I believe, Sagume, no matter how neutral she is, she will involved in Perfect Possession incident. However, ZUN doesn't want include some OP newcomers, so she might entrusts her responsibilities to her subordinates instead.

Remember, in AoCF, every participants have their own reason to be involved in this Perfect Possession incident; some are curious, some wants to increase their fame, some are unwittingly dragged into it, and of course for the incident resolvers, to expose the threat and stop the culprit i.e. the final boss of the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on April 24, 2017, 11:17:47 pm
Hey guys. So as obvious that it could seem, there are two spellcards combined for an attack. So I've been wondering which spellcards would be dang OP. Unless if I'm wrong then you can ignore this.
Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Dragon-Slaying Circle" (https://youtu.be/KIvsl1KAMLI?t=63) + Heaven Sign "Five-Element Mountain of Shakyamuni" (https://youtu.be/KIvsl1KAMLI?t=416).
When's Mahvel.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on April 24, 2017, 11:36:56 pm
I'd want to see Sakuya in this game just to see what you could pull off with time stopped for every character, but was it said earlier in this thread that characters that were already in one of the fighting games wouldn't return? I don't remember.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on April 25, 2017, 06:01:16 am
Wait guys, I thought up of something. Since mirror matches are possible, would it be possible for a master and slave to be the same character? Because that would be funny with the Blazing Star + Master Spark here. Like when Marisa's a Master but another Marisa's a slave.

Confusing but, hey. Do some of those speculations everyone here are good at.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on April 25, 2017, 08:07:07 am
i swear if they add cirno to this game too i'm going to be so mad
Expect to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 25, 2017, 08:26:15 am
Regardless if people hate this game because of the flying mechanics, the new characters are still going to be welcome additions to the series.  Kokoro did not become the least popular and most hated character in the series just because of her debut game, right?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 25, 2017, 08:30:31 am
...? shes the least popular and most hated? huh?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 25, 2017, 08:52:11 am
...? shes the least popular and most hated? huh?
I mean Kokoro is still very popular despite debuting in a widely hated game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ZoomyTsugumi on April 25, 2017, 10:39:10 am
inb4 "Slave Spark" instead of "Master Spark"
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on April 25, 2017, 10:56:03 am
Divine Arts "Omnidirectional Dragon-Slaying Circle" (https://youtu.be/KIvsl1KAMLI?t=63) + Heaven Sign "Five-Element Mountain of Shakyamuni" (https://youtu.be/KIvsl1KAMLI?t=416).
When's Mahvel.
That's cute. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIOs-TM8x10)

Unlike the Byakuren chop (which became comboable but much weaker), this is still a thing in 1.40.
It doesn't usually hit that hard without a counterhit or bad RNG, but you still pretty much have to stay the hell away from j.2A range or forfeit the round once Ichirin has full meter.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: DX5536 on April 25, 2017, 01:16:44 pm
would it be possible for a master and slave to be the same character?

I personally think this will be something that only Mamizou can do (aka immitate the "master").
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 25, 2017, 04:00:05 pm
I personally think this will be something that only Mamizou can do (aka immitate the "master").

Dont give them ideas

every character having their own stupid gimmick already made ULiL confusing enough...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on April 25, 2017, 04:52:18 pm
I mean Kokoro is still very popular despite debuting in a widely hated game.
Bold claim considering the only people who hated  the game were soku players (in the same fashion IaMP players hated SWR/soku) and some people who weren't used to the floaty gameplay.

Most of the casual base enjoyed the game in a casual sense, and there were a few of the more competitive people who liked this game...well more than soku at least :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on April 25, 2017, 05:12:45 pm
Bold claim considering the only people who hated  the game were soku players (in the same fashion IaMP players hated SWR/soku) and some people who weren't used to the floaty gameplay.

Most of the casual base enjoyed the game in a casual sense, and there were a few of the more competitive people who liked this game...well more than soku at least :V

Lol, I agree with that. Personally I liked these floaters. But if we're talking about gameplay here, I'd say I'd like the Soku system way more because of fast and smooth gameplay. If soku was continued, it would have probably been a great game. Imaging HM and ULiL as a Soku like game is so cool.

But then again, the floaters seem to be a bit of a challenge to me because of the different style of this fighter. Not before long, it has been my favorite because of how creative combos can be done "in mid air".

Opinions aside, fans has got to love the new game, because me, as a recent fan, has got to love the incoming games. Because it's better than nothing, right? Considering how small the team is. Plus, it has more fancier graphics so gotta stick for the new ones for now.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 25, 2017, 05:25:28 pm
Casual fans eat anything with Touhou characters and easy basic combos in it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 25, 2017, 06:40:58 pm
fyi going by download count, from the swr/soku era, the fighting game translations were more popular than most of the mainline shmup translations combined

it's real easy to get hung up on the opinion of your local circle without looking at the broader view, and most fans just want to press buttons and see sparks fly

i'll admit that i did feel a bit of schadenfreude when HM came out and i was like "yeah, feel my pain" at the soku communities, though. even then, that game was definitely released unfinished in most ways...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 25, 2017, 08:12:38 pm
fyi going by download count, from the swr/soku era, the fighting game translations were more popular than most of the mainline shmup translations combined

it's real easy to get hung up on the opinion of your local circle without looking at the broader view, and most fans just want to press buttons and see sparks fly

i'll admit that i did feel a bit of schadenfreude when HM came out and i was like "yeah, feel my pain" at the soku communities, though. even then, that game was definitely released unfinished in most ways...

Where are you getting those stats from?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on April 25, 2017, 08:37:57 pm
hi, i worked on those translations
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on April 26, 2017, 12:36:22 am
Hey guys. So as obvious that it could seem, there are two spellcards combined for an attack.
Oh, I didn't understand what you meant at first. Were you referring to how it looks like both Fantasy Orb and Master Spark are being shot out from Marisa? I also just noticed that two Spell Cards are declared and how there's something written under Marisa but not Reisen. Anyone know what it is?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 26, 2017, 02:14:00 am
In the screenshot Reimu has activated Perfect Possession with Marisa, and they are using both Musou Fuuin and Master Spark.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on April 26, 2017, 02:30:24 am
Oh, sorry, must've overlooked that. And is that what the text under Marisa's portrait says, then? Perfect Possession?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 26, 2017, 02:42:49 am
Yep. The gauge is obviously something that represents e.g. the time before you can swap again.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on April 26, 2017, 04:39:14 am

most fans just want to press buttons and see sparks fly


If you're referring to me, that's not it. I'm also aiming for competitive play.

But, no I'm not going to argue which game is better now. I'm not good at those things.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 26, 2017, 05:45:16 am
Well, the recently released FS chapter might be hinting us of a possible evil entity appearing in this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on April 26, 2017, 09:10:00 am
Well, the recently released FS chapter might be hinting us of a possible evil entity appearing in this game.

You may be right, i think it is related. As i theorized before, i'm sure the culprit is Kosuzu herself, either possed by something she understimated,or drunk of her own newfound power. The latter seems more probable, as Yukari helped her out.

By the way, i don't know if i should use the spoiler for this. As i'm talking about what happens in the print work, i don't want to spoil people ^^'.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 26, 2017, 10:10:34 am
Yes, please use spoiler tags for FS 50 lmao
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 26, 2017, 12:26:45 pm
Genuine question as someone that doesnt read the mangas: You really think they'll have a manga-exclusive character as one of the main plot points in the game?

I dont know if that happened before, just seems weird to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on April 26, 2017, 12:33:02 pm
Genuine question as someone that doesnt read the mangas: You really think they'll have a manga-exclusive character as one of the main plot points in the game?

I dont know if that happened before, just seems weird to me.

It could be possible, it's a spin-off after all. Fairy Wars is the continuation of one chapter in the Manga too, Aya was a print-work character too, so we never know.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on April 26, 2017, 12:40:20 pm
It could be possible, it's a spin-off after all. Fairy Wars is the continuation of one chapter in the Manga too, Aya was a print-work character too, so we never know.

Also, Kasen.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 26, 2017, 01:17:32 pm
Genuine question as someone that doesnt read the mangas: You really think they'll have a manga-exclusive character as one of the main plot points in the game?

I dont know if that happened before, just seems weird to me.

To be honest, I also never read some official materials, but in fact, who knows if a minor character  that briefly mentioned becomes a major plot point in a certain canon game. For example, Chang'e. She's briefly mentioned in Bougetsushou's Silent Sinner in Blue, but she's become a major plot point in Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.

Who knows in Antinomy of Common Flowers, there's one or two playable characters being a key player to stop the Perfect Possession incident, and thus ending the Urban Legend incident for good.

It could be possible, it's a spin-off after all. Fairy Wars is the continuation of one chapter in the Manga too, Aya was a print-work character too, so we never know.

Specifically, an interquel spin-off.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 26, 2017, 01:38:34 pm
Genuine question as someone that doesnt read the mangas: You really think they'll have a manga-exclusive character as one of the main plot points in the game?

I dont know if that happened before, just seems weird to me.
Kasen the Fairies of Light, 'nuff said.

And Aya can be considered as well, what with appearing in a literary work first.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on April 26, 2017, 04:35:36 pm
Well i think we all know who one of the new characters for the fighting games going to be  Kosuzu Night Parade Scroll Possessed do not mouse over the spoiler if you don't want a serious spoiler


Genuine question as someone that doesnt read the mangas: You really think they'll have a manga-exclusive character as one of the main plot points in the game?

I dont know if that happened before, just seems weird to me.
its not weird at all
the only manga elusive characters to not show up in a touhou game are the moon sisters. and that because zun said they wouldn't

also Kasen was extremely important to the main plot in ULiL
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 26, 2017, 04:37:02 pm
The annoying thing is that the email notification for new posts gives like care for spoiler tags.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrystalCreation on April 26, 2017, 05:16:46 pm
I must remind you guys that AoCF is going to be about the Perfect Possession incident. FS is following its own plotline though without ever even mentioning the possessions. FS Chapter 50 is currently the most recent event in the timeline while the possessions have been active since ULiL Extra. It wouldn’t make sense if the events in FS were suddenly somehow responsible for an incident that started quite some time ago. The two plotlines just don’t fit together.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on April 26, 2017, 05:38:06 pm
I agree with your point, but i think it can still be related. The UliL Extra was likely a " trailer " to introduce the possessions and the upcoming game, i don't think it's that important if the timeline isn't respected, Zun must just have planned ahead.

And again, all i say is pure speculation, so it may be entirely wrong.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on April 26, 2017, 05:45:43 pm
FS is in the same universe as the games as previous chapters have shown. so i don't know what your talking about own plotlines for.

the three fairies manga had a chapter that lead up to there own game so i don't see why FS latest chapters would not be connected with a game thats coming out. also there to many Coincidences  touhou 15.5 is about perfect possession and from the looks of it Kosuzu's been possessed by the night parade scroll, also remember the scroll did show up in many chapters before so it might not be as unconnected to the Occult incident as it seems 
still you should not count out the Possibility of it. Remember they had a chapter about the Urban legends in kasen's manga before the game came out

also i'm not saying its responsible for the Incident i'm just saying its likely that Kosuzu is involved much like Kasen was involved in the ULiL
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on April 26, 2017, 05:55:30 pm
I think it is a misunderstanding : Crystal knows it's the same universe, he's just saying that the UliL Extra came a bit far ago now ( i think 5 months by now ) and that FS 50 is the first time they are talking about possessions It's a bit weird the connection is this late without them talking about the incident once before.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on April 26, 2017, 05:58:19 pm
I think it is a misunderstanding : Crystal knows it's the same universe, he's just saying that the UliL Extra came a bit far ago now ( i think 5 months by now ) and that FS 50 is the first time they are talking about possessions It's a bit weird the connection is this late without them talking about the incident once before.
remember the game mentioned a Duo  so its quite possible a second person is involved who is behind the Occult indecent    unless it turns out to be yukari and Kosuzu
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on April 26, 2017, 06:02:14 pm
also remember the scroll did show up in many chapters before so it might not be as unconnected to the Occult incident as it seems 

If this turns out to be true I'll shout loudly. Something so obvious, right under our noses...

As an aside, the name of the manga makes a whole lot of sense right now. It's all because of that damned scroll...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on April 26, 2017, 06:13:03 pm
I also think they are totally unrelated. AoCF possession is due to the urban legends and has 2 people switching places. Kosuzu's "possession" has nothing to do with the urban legends, and it looks like it works like a "normal" overtaking of the body. This assuming she is actually possessed and didn't just lose hervmind and get wild dangerous ideas.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on April 26, 2017, 06:54:25 pm
The uses of "possession" here are different and we're only really thinking they're related because they're both "possession" in english. Even though the phenomena are not all that alike.

Kosuzu doesn't particularly seem to be "possessed" by the scroll anyways. Taken in by its influence and embracing it, more like.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on April 26, 2017, 08:10:30 pm
Figured this kinda belongs here aswell.

(http://i.imgur.com/wl78xs6.jpg)

Bonus(FS Spoilers): http://puu.sh/vx8Z5/e836d64163.png
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on April 26, 2017, 08:11:58 pm
Those made me laugh , well done
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: teefa85 on April 27, 2017, 03:05:43 am
I think I nearly spit out my drink from laughing...bravo!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on April 27, 2017, 03:09:09 am
Figured this kinda belongs here aswell.

(http://i.imgur.com/wl78xs6.jpg)

Bonus(FS Spoilers): http://puu.sh/vx8Z5/e836d64163.png
Please go ahead and spoil to me what that FS pic us about.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on April 27, 2017, 06:53:38 am
Please go ahead and spoil to me what that FS pic us about.

Marisa was found beaten-up at the shrine by Mamizou and Reimu. They start to burry her in a comical way, as she's still alive, and quickly gets up to tell them to not burry her alive.

I don't know if i should have done it by mail, i apoligize if it's the case.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: The Anti-Person on April 27, 2017, 05:24:02 pm
Well I also find it possible that the word 'Antinomy' refers to the pairs being opposing personalities or sides.
So I could imagine these pairs in the game:
Reimu - Marisa (confirmed)
Ichirin - Futo
Byakuren - Miko
Mokou - Reisen (confirmed)
Nitori - Aya???
Koishi - Kokoro

I wonder how will Shinmyomaru, Kasen, Sumireko and the newcomers get paired...
(it would be weird to see a Cirno + Utsuho pair for example lol)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on April 27, 2017, 05:44:17 pm
man I need to catch up on FS.
(I don't see a translation for chapter 50 on the Wiki, was it uploaded somewhere else or are people just reading Japanese?) Edit: nvm.

Also I really want to see gameplay of this game. Been watching the MvC:I videos that were released this week, and now I'm really hoping for AoCF having just half of the shenanigans of Mahvel.

Edit 2: caught up. Oh wow.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 27, 2017, 11:13:21 pm
Well I also find it possible that the word 'Antinomy' refers to the pairs being opposing personalities or sides.
So I could imagine these pairs in the game:
Reimu - Marisa (confirmed)
Ichirin - Futo
Byakuren - Miko
Mokou - Reisen (confirmed)
Nitori - Aya???
Koishi - Kokoro

I wonder how will Shinmyomaru, Kasen, Sumireko and the newcomers get paired...
(it would be weird to see a Cirno + Utsuho pair for example lol)

Seija would be a possible pair for Shinmyoumaru. But considering she's become a fugitive in ISC, it's possible to get another one like Raiko. It is possible for Sumireko and Kasen will be paired, especially in their story mode scenario where Sumireko wants to make up for what she done in ULiL.

For representation from LoLK, I want to see Clownpiece and Hecatia join the roster. If they're meet the final boss face to face, expect Hecatia will have a similar distaste like Komachi to the final boss' (or bosses if its more than one) attitude. Mainly, messing with everyone's mind and soul during the wake of urban legend incident and Lunarian "mass migration" for the hell of it at best and to make every participants' life like a living hell at worst.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Spectral Nexus on April 28, 2017, 12:21:19 am
Sorry, I'm really uneducated about this game in general, but I've gotta ask:
Has there been any 100% confirmed information about the game revealed by Tasofro/ZUN/anybody else yet? Or is this whole chat still just speculation and prediction?
If I recall, this game was announced in December last year, and seeing as it's gonNA BE MAY nearing May, it seems a little unusual for nothing to be explicitly revealed 4 to 5 months in.
Please enlighten me. :P
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gondolin on April 28, 2017, 01:21:48 am
Sorry, I'm really uneducated about this game in general, but I've gotta ask:
Has there been any 100% confirmed information about the game revealed by Tasofro/ZUN/anybody else yet? Or is this whole chat still just speculation and prediction?
The confirmed info I can remember off the top of my head is: same engine as ULiL, all the characters included in ULiL including Reisen from the PS4 version + 5 new (new boss and/or characters that have yet to make an appearance in any of the fighters) ones will be included, matches are a team kind of thing where one character lends another their power (as can be seen in the new screenshot from the most recent update on Tasofro's site for the game), and a demo is coming at this Reitaisai. Story-wise we have the intro-blurb included on the website which is translated and on the wiki.

If I recall, this game was announced in December last year, and seeing as it's gonNA BE MAY nearing May, it seems a little unusual for nothing to be explicitly revealed 4 to 5 months in.
Please enlighten me. :P

As I recall for Hopeless Masquerade, we only knew about Reimu, Marisa, and Ichirin up until only a few days before the game was released, during which Tasofro updated the website with information on a new character every day with the exceptions of Mamizou and Kokoro. ULiL I'm less sure of, but if I remember correctly we knew that it would include all the previous characters + Kasen for a long while before there was finally a trailer released not super far off from the full release which showcased Sukuna and Mokou.

So having little information seems to be par for the course, at least recently.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Onion on April 28, 2017, 04:45:21 am
Figured this kinda belongs here aswell.

*image removed for brevity*

Bonus(FS Spoilers): http://puu.sh/vx8Z5/e836d64163.png

Now that you have posted that, I request that every sub image be sourced for great justice in the preservation of all artwork (except my own) campaign.

Also, my Japanese skills are merely the ancient art of 辞書 use, and I'm lazy; does the tasfro site say anything about there being fixed pairs, or is it freeform? I hope it's freeform. More afterbattle dialogues that way.
ReimuxReimu vs. ReimuxReimu
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 28, 2017, 05:45:41 am
ReimuxReimu vs. ReimuxReimu

If you can have Reimu call upon herself against two of herself, that would be one heck of a doppelganger fight :]
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on April 28, 2017, 07:19:43 am

ReimuxReimu vs. ReimuxReimu
That's what I was talking about the other day.

Lol double sealing circle
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on April 28, 2017, 09:09:36 am
You know what's ironic about the Kosuzu-as-a-possible-boss theory?

Someone brought up the theory back during the Wild Mass Guesses for ULiL, citing the Forbidden Scrollery chapter in which Kosuzu was possessed by the ghost of a set of antique love letters, and used that to explain how Kosuzu might have an appearance in ULiL, possessed by the then-unidentified "Hanako". That turn out to be not the case: Kosuzu isn't even mentioned in ULiL, and "Hanako" is revealed to be the fully-human Sumireko. The jossed theory is, funny enough, forgotten within the same week it was brought up, and that's before ULiL full version is released.

But then came FS chapter 50, and suddenly, everyone is finding Kosuzu-as-a-boss-in-AoCF as a highly likely possibility...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on April 28, 2017, 09:22:32 am
But then came FS chapter 50, and suddenly, everyone is finding Kosuzu-as-a-boss-in-AoCF as a highly likely possibility...


Meh, i talked about this possibility at the release of FS 49 though, but i get your point ^^.

And speculation is speculation, if we get proved wrong, of course the theory will instantly vanish.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on April 28, 2017, 10:55:56 am
But then came FS chapter 50, and suddenly, everyone is finding Kosuzu-as-a-boss-in-AoCF as a highly likely possibility...

Specifically, a penultimate boss. Kosuzu might be a possible candidate to fill a penultimate boss role, similar to Kasen in ULiL. And if this is confirmed, she's become the second character in the franchise's history to debut in an official print work, then become playable in an official game. Who knows in AoCF, this might serves as one of Kosuzu's character development, as she's more than happy to get her hands dirty e.g. able to defend herself from a hostile youkai.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on April 28, 2017, 11:40:49 am
She's become the second character in the franchise's history to debut in an official print work, then become playable in an official game.

Everyone forgets about Aya rip.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on April 28, 2017, 12:02:34 pm
Everyone forgets about Aya rip.

BAiJR and PoFV came out, like, three days apart, practically at the same event, so that counts as a simultaneous debut instead.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on April 29, 2017, 12:47:58 am
I was thinking that if she was a boss in the game it'd be pretty cool, but now I'm thinking that it'd be kind of.. disappointing, I guess? It seems odd for something to be resolved in another platform.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hazerddex on April 29, 2017, 06:24:07 am
I was thinking that if she was a boss in the game it'd be pretty cool, but now I'm thinking that it'd be kind of.. disappointing, I guess? It seems odd for something to be resolved in another platform.
they did start the fairy war in the manga but resolve it in the game same with ULiL
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on April 29, 2017, 03:50:49 pm
they did start the fairy war in the manga but resolve it in the game same with ULiL
Well, the Urban Legend incident hasn't quite been resolved yet. As for Great Fairy Wars, wasn't that a one-chapter thing that didn't connect to the rest of the series?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on April 29, 2017, 04:47:46 pm
While I think it's very possible for Kosuzu to be in, WaHH's Urban Legend stuff and GFW aren't quite the same as this. The urban legend stuff was a side plot, and the GFW stuff didn't last very long at all.

The stuff with the youma books, the 4chan teller and all the questioning of humanity's place in Gensokyo, Kosuzu's powers slowly growing and growing, increasing youkai influence on her... This really feels like what the entirety of FS has been building up to.


A better comparison, I think, would be Kasen finding her arm or being outed as an oni in a game rather than the manga. Which are both possible but less likely than some side arc getting turned into a main game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on May 05, 2017, 02:10:59 pm
So NicoNico has started a programme called "Touhou Station". It will be a "variety show" hosted by Beat Mario, and the first episode (http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv294989011) will be broadcast tomorrow at 5 PM JST. ZUN will be burning his HSiFS CD-R discs from the show room remotely from somewhere else, and Tasofro will probably show off the AoCF demo.

Reposting since its relevant here aswell.

Would be great if someone could take note of all the information!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 05, 2017, 02:12:26 pm
Unabara tweeted (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/860492060029104128), the demo will support playing against humans and the computer, and a simple Practice mode. You can play online by "free matching" or by IP address. The demo won't support using network lobbies or creating replays.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on May 05, 2017, 10:24:16 pm
Tasofro blog (http://tasofro.net/diary/view/156) has updated with a picture of the demo CD and a short write-up. The demo will have only Reimu, Marisa, Mokou, and Reisen. Also confirmed that AoCF will be showcased on Touhou Station if it wasn't obvious.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on May 05, 2017, 10:30:00 pm
(http://puu.sh/vGQdk/eeafe4a49a.png)

What's this blue thing? This can't be reisen, can it?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 05, 2017, 10:34:13 pm
Where's zoom & enhance when you need it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on May 05, 2017, 11:00:10 pm
It's Reisen. I was confused at first too but they had announced just the four characters, and then if you check the main site you can see the blue Reisen in the banner logo.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 05, 2017, 11:21:58 pm
i'm so ready
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on May 05, 2017, 11:46:01 pm
Let's hope there will be new characters in the demo and not just those 4.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on May 05, 2017, 11:54:53 pm
Let's hope there will be new characters in the demo and not just those 4.

They literally said these will be the only 4.

I am only interested if they massively improved the float mechanics, that's the only thing I care about when it comes to the demo, let's hope they wont disappoint.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 06, 2017, 12:01:12 am
What I want to see are details on how Perfect Possession will work. I don't mind the floating all that much.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gondolin on May 06, 2017, 12:10:17 am
It'll be cool to see how their new system works, though it is slightly disappointing they're not showing off a newly included character for the demo. Just going to need to wait a bit longer!

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on May 06, 2017, 12:38:37 am
I feel like we'll know the rest of the cast pretty quickly. Last year it got datamined right? Plus there's that one guy who made accurate predictions about HM and ULiL. I'm excited to see who's teamed up with who.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on May 06, 2017, 01:26:29 am
Last year it got datamined right?

inb4 Tasofro learned their lesson and will use dummy names
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on May 06, 2017, 01:49:48 am
They literally said these will be the only 4.

I am only interested if they massively improved the float mechanics, that's the only thing I care about when it comes to the demo, let's hope they wont disappoint.
Way to not know how to build hype...  At least data mining is worth looking forward to!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on May 06, 2017, 02:06:28 am
90% of you probably haven't played the PS4 version anyway so Reisen is effectively new
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 06, 2017, 02:20:16 am
Speaking of, how will the characters be? As in moves, damage, combos and such? Are they likely to reuse what was in the most recent Urban Legend in Limbo patch, or will everything have been redone?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 06, 2017, 02:56:54 am
i'm the only one who really wanna see kaguya in the full AoCF?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on May 06, 2017, 03:15:09 am
I don't particularly want her to be in, but she is someone I thought had a good chance of showing up since she was a candidate for Hisou. Though if Mokou and Reisen are a team I don't think she'll make it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 06, 2017, 04:22:11 am
I don't particularly want her to be in, but she is someone I thought had a good chance of showing up since she was a candidate for Hisou. Though if Mokou and Reisen are a team I don't think she'll make it.

True, tho i wonder how she would look like in it, this might sound stupid but what if Marisa&Reimu and Reisen&Mokou are duos only in the demo? that could be a possibility, right?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 06, 2017, 05:50:25 am
Yeah, I'm hoping for Kaguya but it seems unlikely now..
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Spotty Len on May 06, 2017, 09:09:12 am
A closer look from the live :

(http://i.imgur.com/voQ1NuJ.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Spectral Nexus on May 06, 2017, 09:12:50 am
They're playing the game live on the Nico Nico stream now~! :)
http://live2.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv294989011 for anyone who wants to check it out.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on May 06, 2017, 09:13:17 am
IT'S FREE-PAIR
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 06, 2017, 09:13:42 am
IT'S FREE-PAIR

oh shit
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Spotty Len on May 06, 2017, 09:15:40 am
WE GOT GRABS

Possession lasts until you get hit.

Also, tag combooooos.

IT'S MAHVEL BABY
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on May 06, 2017, 09:23:04 am
- Assists
- Perfect Possession are temp switches as expected
- Spell Card Possessions by pressing a button during the Spell
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 06, 2017, 09:26:49 am
Touhou mahvel let's go.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 06, 2017, 09:43:28 am
Throws are back, they said.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on May 06, 2017, 11:23:29 am
IT'S FREE-PAIR

And that means we can mix-and-match our pairing.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on May 06, 2017, 11:53:51 am
Throws are back, they said.
I don't think any Touhou fighting game ever had normal (as in, not special) throws until this one.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on May 06, 2017, 11:59:04 am
Speaking of, how will the characters be? As in moves, damage, combos and such? Are they likely to reuse what was in the most recent Urban Legend in Limbo patch, or will everything have been redone?

I sure hope so. ULiL was an unbalanced mess.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on May 06, 2017, 12:50:40 pm
Are they still playing it live?

EDIT: Unfortunately, it has finished.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 06, 2017, 01:55:27 pm
I don't think any Touhou fighting game ever had normal (as in, not special) throws until this one.
If we look at Tasofro's entire history, Eternal Fighter Zero had normal throws.

(http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/coleblog/imgs/f/f/ff845596-s.jpg)

Also they may have said the game is (https://twitter.com/kameiwa/status/860805607942533120) 25 to 30% complete. If so, it's going to miss the simultaneous Summer Comiket release with Touhou 16.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on May 06, 2017, 02:18:17 pm
Did anyone manage to record the stream?
Also by assists are we talking single-move assists or full realtime character switching?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on May 06, 2017, 02:37:45 pm
If we are looking at Tasofro's entire history, Eternal Fighter Zero had normal throws.

The moment the first throw happened:
(http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/coleblog/imgs/f/f/ff845596-s.jpg)

Also they may have said the game is (https://twitter.com/kameiwa/status/860805607942533120) 25 to 30% complete. If so, it's going to miss the simultaneous Summer Comiket release with Touhou 16.

I doubt it, otherwise it would mean 15.5 is releasing after 16, which would likely cause massive confusion.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 06, 2017, 03:33:46 pm
Recorded videos: 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVlyhZ226eM), 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBzUHjR6Ve4).

Also by assists are we talking single-move assists or full realtime character switching?
Temporary switching. In the stream (which showed Practice mode), it seems to last until the Slave is hit after the Perfect Possession gauge is depleted.

I doubt it, otherwise it would mean 15.5 is releasing after 16, which would likely cause massive confusion.
Touhou 7.5 IaMP was released half a year after Touhou 8 IN.

With that said, things have greatly changed over the years. Touhou's story is now tightly woven between games and manga, so it's harder to imagine there being such a huge timeline gap happening today. We might be able to better infer how close the game is from completion based on tomorrow's demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on May 06, 2017, 03:45:01 pm
I missed the stream. Is story mode free pair, or just practice mode? If it's story mode.... good luck tasofro lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 06, 2017, 04:02:22 pm
Yes, I can confirm Unabara said "25 percent" when asked about completion.

Since Tasofro is a small team that can't divide themselves on multiple games the way huge developers can, the real production of AoCF probably began almost immediately after they wrapped up ULiL PS4 (they started the project before that, according to a Strange Creators interview). Which means it took them less than 5 months to reach 25%. And the remaining tasks don't have to take the same amount of time to complete. Still...

I don't think they can make it to Autumn Reitaisai.

EDIT: And this means for the purpose of the non-game media, either AoCF will have to take place after HSiFS, or they will have to dodge the topic of what transpired in AoCF.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on May 06, 2017, 04:10:13 pm
Anyway, it's 7th already here lol, but a few more hours, then I could see the demo. I missed the stream T.T
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on May 06, 2017, 04:37:17 pm
Throws being a thing is going to be huge, because it makes offense and mixups a thing now. Now we can mix it up between projectile/melee/throw pressure.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on May 06, 2017, 04:41:20 pm
okay now i have some hope in tasfro they're not just THROWing away hopes and drea-

i'll show myself out.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shiko on May 06, 2017, 04:52:57 pm
Here's a link to the vod of the stream for those who missed it:  http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv294989011 (http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv294989011)

AoCF demo gameplay begins at around 1:11:30.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on May 06, 2017, 04:59:05 pm
I just love how Reisen's hair is longer than her full height now.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on May 06, 2017, 05:07:44 pm
ZUN was right when he said visuals are very important this time.
Title screen, character select and HUD overall look beatiful.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on May 06, 2017, 05:16:41 pm
Some gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBzUHjR6Ve4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBzUHjR6Ve4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBzUHjR6Ve4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBzUHjR6Ve4)

I find the "revealed background" effect on Spellcards interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 06, 2017, 05:33:05 pm
i just woke up, what i missed??
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: gilde on May 06, 2017, 05:38:23 pm
In addition to all the Possession gauge stuff that's already been detailed in this thread, holding down B continually fires a modest spray of projectiles now. I know next to squat about fitegame strategy so I don't know if that actually makes a difference gameplay-wise, but it looks cool so I love it.

I find the "revealed background" effect on Spellcards interesting.
That just seems to be a problem with the greenscreen they're using for the broadcast. The background showing through is the one behind the guy during the last second of the video.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 06, 2017, 05:54:07 pm
What was that thing Reimu did when she blocked, the background dimmed, and she exploded? Well, I guess not exploded, but you know what I mean. It seemed like she was invincible for a second, since Reisen's bullets passed through. Marisa also jumped out of a block and there was an effect.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on May 06, 2017, 06:04:21 pm
What was that thing Reimu did when she blocked, the background dimmed, and she exploded? Well, I guess not exploded, but you know what I mean. It seemed like she was invincible for a second, since Reisen's bullets passed through. Marisa also jumped out of a block and there was an effect.

That appears to be some sort of guard cancel switch. Speaking of mechanics, in addition to normal throws, we also appear to have throw escapes, as seen in the 1:15 mark.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on May 06, 2017, 06:05:54 pm
Recorded videos: 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVlyhZ226eM), 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBzUHjR6Ve4).
Temporary switching. In the stream (which showed Practice mode), it seems to last until the Slave is hit after the Perfect Possession gauge is depleted.
Thanks for the links!
Fascinating new mechanics. Looking forward to the shenanigans.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 06, 2017, 06:07:07 pm
So Border Escape returns? And I assume the white HP is similar to Immaterial and Missing Power where declaring a Spell Card recovers the other HP bar.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 06, 2017, 06:56:25 pm
I just love how Reisen's hair is longer than her full height now.

Because ankle length just wasn't long enough.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on May 06, 2017, 07:38:40 pm
I wonder if the full version will have last words... Duo last words would be awesome, but I doubt they'd make one for every possible combination(225+).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 06, 2017, 07:53:04 pm
I wonder if the full version will have last words... Duo last words would be awesome, but I doubt they'd make one for every possible combination(225+).

A combination of last words would be pretty dope.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 06, 2017, 08:04:18 pm
I wonder if the full version will have last words... Duo last words would be awesome, but I doubt they'd make one for every possible combination(225+).
They could also just do what they did with Spell Cards: you just combo them into each other. Like Reimu uses her Last Word, hits, and when it ends, Marisa catches the enemy in hers. But I guess that might look kind of weird, if it's the same as Urban Legend in Limbo's Last Words.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: DX5536 on May 06, 2017, 08:45:32 pm
They could also just do what they did with Spell Cards: you just combo them into each other. Like Reimu uses her Last Word, hits, and when it ends, Marisa catches the enemy in hers. But I guess that might look kind of weird, if it's the same as Urban Legend in Limbo's Last Words.
Or maybe they could do something like JJBA Eyes of Heaven: special duo will have special Last word.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on May 06, 2017, 09:05:29 pm
Game looks promising from the looks of it, but I'm still pretty curious about how "getting rid of your partner / slave in times of emergency" is supposed to work, tho... guess I have to wait for a few more hours for that  :V

Also goodbye smash balls and Lunar Capital mystery spot, you're not gonna be missed
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on May 06, 2017, 09:47:19 pm
Yes, I can confirm Unabara said "25 percent" when asked about completion.

Since Tasofro is a small team that can't divide themselves on multiple fighting games, AoCF probably began development almost immediately after they wrapped up ULiL PS4. Which means it took them less than 5 months to reach 25%. And the remaining tasks don't have to take the same amount of time to complete. Still...

I don't think they can make it to Autumn Reitaisai.

EDIT: And this means for the purpose of the non-game media, either AoCF will have to take place after HSiFS, or they will have to dodge the topic of what transpired in AoCF.

Going by that, the game is still a year away. Geez.

The gameplay videos look promising, but I can't judge the feel of float in the video, I'll have to feel it myself, since I continue to find it gameruining when executed poorly.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on May 06, 2017, 09:53:43 pm
I wonder if the full version will have last words... Duo last words would be awesome, but I doubt they'd make one for every possible combination(225+).

They might be make a tandem Last Words, but only with a specific pairing. Especially when a certain pair was pre-made for Story Mode.

Game looks promising from the looks of it, but I'm still pretty curious about how "getting rid of your partner / slave in times of emergency" is supposed to work, tho... guess I have to wait for a few more hours for that  :V

Also goodbye smash balls and Lunar Capital mystery spot, you're not gonna be missed

I believr the Occult Ball thing might relegated to subplot. The Lunar Capital one in particular will be a focus in this game
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gondolin on May 06, 2017, 11:10:02 pm
I believr the Occult Ball thing might relegated to subplot. The Lunar Capital one in particular will be a focus in this game

Am I mistaken or wasn't that resolved in LoLK?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on May 06, 2017, 11:35:23 pm
It was, basically. It's the Urban Legend incident that apparently sprung forth this one, and using the urban legends are clearly still a thing judging by the special attacks we've seen.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 07, 2017, 12:51:52 am
It also drained the Perfect Possession meter when Occult attacks were used and when they were hit by the Occult attacks.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on May 07, 2017, 02:14:24 am
Touhou 7.5 IaMP was released half a year after Touhou 8 IN.
people might not actually remember this, but SWR was originally going to be touhou 9.8 but got renumbered due to delays

additional trivia: caster's port is 7500 because iamp is 7.5. swr's port? 10800. they were clearly thinking about going for 10.8, when 10.5 ended up not happening they took that.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on May 07, 2017, 05:22:32 am
there's gameplay streams of the game happening on NND right now and looks like the white health recovers while you are controlling the assist. However, since both share the same health bar, getting hit as the assist will still bring your health down.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on May 07, 2017, 08:41:31 am
I don't suppose anyone's got any suggestions if the demo flat out refuses to launch or even do anything at all?  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 07, 2017, 09:26:45 am
I don't suppose anyone's got any suggestions if the demo flat out refuses to launch or even do anything at all?  :ohdear:
...oh god
don't tell me
if it has anything to do with anti-hacking checks and nvidia drivers i'm gonna shit
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 07, 2017, 09:41:19 am
First, like Unabara said, you should disable Win8.1's touchscreen keyboard, if you have a touchscreen.

Then, when the game fails to start, it should leave behind a log file like th155.exe.log, which contains the paths of the suspect files. Since the previous tool th145launch.exe is ineffective on AoCF, your only current solution is to find and rename these files.

After renaming the files, you may find that only th155_log.exe works. This is actually because th155_log.exe forces you to run it with Administrator privilege. If you encounter an error about "Hoke" when running th155.exe, try running it as an Admin.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 7TC7 on May 07, 2017, 10:02:03 am
Any idea about what determines what the switch-button does? Sometimes it switches between characters, sometimes it shoots occult attacks/attacks with your slave and sometimes it does flat out nothing. All with a full partner-bar. Also, can't seem to consistently call my partner during double spellcards.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on May 07, 2017, 10:02:39 am
No characters leaks this time. The game doesn't even contains "nitori" or "ichirin" in its data file (and I talk about the game's decrypted files of course), so I really doubt there's any trace of new characters. Any leaked character is probably fake (but there's still a chance that I missed it).
th155 tools (yeah, I didn't rename some things so there's a lot of th145 everywhere but it's th155): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRd0hhMkx4WnFqWjA

Also, I heard the hacked binary I made to work on the game fixes the "the game doesn't open" bug, you can download it here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRRFBQOGtXX0lEc1E
Images dump incoming in a few hours.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 07, 2017, 10:14:26 am
No characters leaks this time. The game doesn't even contains "nitori" or "ichirin" in its data file (and I talk about the game's decrypted files of course), so I really doubt there's any trace of new characters. Any leaked character is probably fake (but there's still a chance that I missed it).
th155 tools (yeah, I didn't rename some things so there's a lot of th145 everywhere but it's th155): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRd0hhMkx4WnFqWjA

Also, I heard the hacked binary I made to work on the game fixes the "the game doesn't open" bug, you can download it here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRRFBQOGtXX0lEc1E
Images dump incoming in a few hours.
Thank you for everything! Though Network play seems disabled in this patch?

For players: you may still need to run brliron's th155_2.exe as Admin.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on May 07, 2017, 10:41:40 am
Is it just me, or I put the game folder on the tasofro folder, along with the other game :/
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on May 07, 2017, 11:23:35 am
how do you used that double spell card thing anyway? I tried using the same button again when she's performing the spell card, but it doesn't work
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on May 07, 2017, 11:32:14 am
how do you used that double spell card thing anyway? I tried using the same button again when she's performing the spell card, but it doesn't work

We definitely need an answer to this.

Anyway, seems okay for me except for the fact that Z+X is now spellcard and A is occult attack, which is very confusing. Lol I've been smashing buttons in between Z, X, and A whenever I perform the Master's spellcard. I rarely get the chance to fo the Master and Slave spellcard attack.

And oh, how to switch to slave without performing the spell, as in to quick change during the battle? I think I pressed A there, but I tried doing it again somehow, but it didn't work.
No characters leaks this time. The game doesn't even contains "nitori" or "ichirin" in its data file (and I talk about the game's decrypted files of course), so I really doubt there's any trace of new characters. Any leaked character is probably fake (but there's still a chance that I missed it).
th155 tools (yeah, I didn't rename some things so there's a lot of th145 everywhere but it's th155): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRd0hhMkx4WnFqWjA

Also, I heard the hacked binary I made to work on the game fixes the "the game doesn't open" bug, you can download it here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRRFBQOGtXX0lEc1E
Images dump incoming in a few hours.

Wow, what fast work. Eventually, we'll get the characters tho. Maybe in about nine months? T.T

Too bad there's no replay showcase, but meh, I shouldn't argue about it since it is a demo
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: arhus on May 07, 2017, 11:40:21 am
how do you used that double spell card thing anyway? I tried using the same button again when she's performing the spell card, but it doesn't work

Try using A while performing a first spell card, I think you have to hold it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 7TC7 on May 07, 2017, 11:47:14 am
Seems like holding A switches, pressing it quick uses occult, pressing it quick while holding forward uses your slave.
And grabbing is the same input as spell card? so can't grab with full meter, unless you switch into slave?
Also, double spell is holding A during a spell.

Edit: No, grabbing is just holding forward and pressing Z, so those don't interfere with each other.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on May 07, 2017, 12:00:04 pm
Seems like holding A switches, pressing it quick uses occult, pressing it quick while holding forward uses your slave.
And grabbing is the same input as spell card? so can't grab with full meter, unless you switch into slave?
Also, double spell is holding A during a spell.

Edit: No, grabbing is just holding forward and pressing Z, so those don't interfere with each other.


Thank yiu so much bruh. You made my night.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on May 07, 2017, 01:31:53 pm
Thanks, I will tried it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on May 07, 2017, 01:52:27 pm
When do you think we'll see new characters?  Wouldn't be surprised if it's a a week or so before release...

Hoping for data mined stuff, soon!  Assuming Tasofro left everything in there...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 7TC7 on May 07, 2017, 02:11:08 pm
After a playing a bit, the timer seems to be the only thing I don't really like about the game right now and if you play aggressively enough it usually won't get in your way anyways.
After figuring it out, I really like how this controls and feels. Can't wait to try out more combinations in the full game. Right now ReimuMokou seems to work quite well. Wonder if that will be the Story Mode team for those two, still.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on May 07, 2017, 02:33:05 pm
Any gameplay/combo videos yet, or is it still too early?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: grgspunk on May 07, 2017, 03:08:08 pm
Also, I heard the hacked binary I made to work on the game fixes the "the game doesn't open" bug, you can download it here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRRFBQOGtXX0lEc1E
Images dump incoming in a few hours.

I was just wondering, what's the cause behind the issue? I had the same problem and it was fixed when I used this binary myself.

I hope this is just a case of Tasofro not doing enough bug-testing.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 07, 2017, 03:10:09 pm
It sounds like the controls are quite confusing. Will there be any way to switch controls, or is it not as confusing as it sounds?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 7TC7 on May 07, 2017, 03:55:12 pm
It sounds like the controls are quite confusing. Will there be any way to switch controls, or is it not as confusing as it sounds?

I think the controls are quite simple. It's just hard to find out what they are at first, if you can't read what's what.
There is also a button config like in the previous games.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 07, 2017, 07:33:50 pm
Is there half Drawing Cycle? I can't run the last two fighting games above 30fps, so it really helps.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: fsvgm777 on May 07, 2017, 07:51:25 pm
So it seems the demo is incompatible with Locale Emulator. The game doesn't start up at all, and when I check the log file, I notice it points to one of the Locale Emulator DLLs (LocaleEmulator.dll). Tried updating Locale Emulator, but no dice.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on May 07, 2017, 08:15:10 pm
I was just wondering, what's the cause behind the issue? I had the same problem and it was fixed when I used this binary myself.

I hope this is just a case of Tasofro not doing enough bug-testing.
Well... IIRC, I changed 4 things in my hacked binary.

So it seems the demo is incompatible with Locale Emulator. The game doesn't start up at all, and when I check the log file, I notice it points to one of the Locale Emulator DLLs (LocaleEmulator.dll). Tried updating Locale Emulator, but no dice.
I think the problem isn't about Locale Emulator being outdated, rather about the game seeing Locale Emulator and thinking "That thing doesn't belong to me, it must belong to some spooky hacker trying to steal things from me, I'm out!"
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 07, 2017, 08:25:52 pm
Pretty sure the game can run without a locale eumulator

or a JP locale for that matter
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on May 07, 2017, 08:37:47 pm
ffs they still haven't given up on the worthless anti-modification measures?

these things literally only hurt legitimate users, if they released something like that to the west they'd get roasted alive in reviews
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: rubini on May 07, 2017, 08:58:52 pm
hello guys, I need your help u.u When starting the game this does not start, but in the task manager Indicates as if it is working... Same case happened before with ULiL and had to modify a hexadecimal data... Can somebody help?

PD: I sorry for my bad english...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: AvoidTheBullet on May 07, 2017, 09:00:41 pm
I'm having the same trouble here, horewer I download the hacked binary, I runned it as a admin and nothing happened, hell I even used Locate and Appswitch and nothing.

It's sad for me thought, along with Touhou 16 this was my first time being a witness of a Touhou game.

I hope this is not going to happen again with the full version.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Mach131 on May 07, 2017, 09:38:39 pm
Has anyone else had problems changing the controls? I can get to the menu for it, but when I press Z on something to change it, it basically softlocks until I switch to a different window. When I put AoCF back in focus, though, it cancels the button input mode (unless it's a gamepad button, in which case it gets set to Left for some reason).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 07, 2017, 10:15:31 pm
hello guys, I need your help u.u When starting the game this does not start, but in the task manager Indicates as if it is working... Same case happened before with ULiL and had to modify a hexadecimal data... Can somebody help?

PD: I sorry for my bad english...

I'm having the same trouble here, horewer I download the hacked binary, I runned it as a admin and nothing happened, hell I even used Locate and Appswitch and nothing.

It's sad for me thought, along with Touhou 16 this was my first time being a witness of a Touhou game.

I hope this is not going to happen again with the full version.

Quoting these since they were previously unapproved until now and so were likely missed by people that could actually answer them.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 07, 2017, 11:51:13 pm
Well... IIRC, I changed 4 things in my hacked binary.
  • At 2 places, allow the game to run under a debugger. Shouldn't change anything if the game doesn't run under a debugger.
  • I disabled the "dynamic base" flag. Most exe files you find should have it enabled. It's possible but really unlikely that disabling it fixes a crash.
  • And now, the thing I suspect being the cause of the game not working on some computer: removing the test on the call to WinVerifyTrust (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa388208(v=vs.85).aspx). I still don't know what that function does (I didn't read the documentation page yet), but my game stopped working after the previous change, it crashed around the call to this function, and by reading its name, I was like "oh, that thing looks like it could not like me hacking the game". That's among the "anti-hack stuff".
The Network option is disabled in your hacked .exe. They probably added an integrity check as a (final?) failsafe measure to prevent cheating.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on May 08, 2017, 02:48:09 am
Hey guys I made a Day 1 combo video focusing on tag combos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOqR1RS1zLE)

Core gameplay is basically the same as ULiL, minus a couple changes (mostly charged projectile properties and the removal of declare cancels since we have tag combos instead)

The tag combo part itself is really neat and allows for a lot of creativity, and I'm really damn happy that occult effects and occult smash balls orbs are no longer a thing. Those were terrible. The occult effects was almost as bad as soku weather itself.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shizzo on May 08, 2017, 03:37:14 am
I couldn't get my hands on the demo, but I got a question.  Does AoCF have Last Words like the previous 2 games?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on May 08, 2017, 04:10:29 am
I couldn't get my hands on the demo, but I got a question.  Does AoCF have Last Words like the previous 2 games?

Yes they do have, but it only has the ones in ULiL and only the Master (main char used) can use it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on May 08, 2017, 07:21:50 am
How do you used it again?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on May 08, 2017, 08:04:07 am
How do you used it again?


If you're talking about the Last Word, it's the good ol' C + A. But in order to do that, the spellcard meter has to be full, yes both master and slave. And perfect possession gauge has to be full to be used.

And about the combined last words, it seems vague considering the last word of the master already has taken such a big cost (like spellcard meter full and perfect possession). And probably they won't have room for tagged last words. Hopefully, I'm wrong about my theory.


EDIT: Speaking of, what happened to the Touhou 15.5 bingo card. Wanna see what's up so far XD
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 09, 2017, 02:09:47 am
Y'know, I kinda wish we could pick the slave's spell card.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on May 09, 2017, 06:48:58 am
Y'know, I kinda wish we could pick the slave's spell card.

Yeah, I couldn't do much with Reisen's spellcard. Also, it's a good chance to combine spellcards with the player's desire. It would be great if we could pick even if the op cards are contrasted to the slave's power.

But since it's a demo, I guess many has yet to come considering that the game's just in 25% completion.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 09, 2017, 09:30:43 am
ah, um... after a while of playing, my computer sometimes restarts on its own, but beforehand it freezes then the monitor shuts off and then whatever music was playing spam plays itself in 0.05 intervals or something like that (similar to a "bttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt" noise?)

this sometimes happened with other games such as stardew valley and yandere simulator, but it never happened much with touhou and AoCF.

it's really disappointing since i wanna play the full version as well when its out, but if this problem persists, then... you know.

im assuming it is a graphics card issue? though, it all started when i accidentally set a game called stardew valley's priority to high in task manager (it is been on normal for a while, and i dont play it that much anymore), though im sure that that is entirely coincidential.

i dont think this happened with ULiL, maybe once or twice, but considering that i don't recall, i doubt it.

could this be an AoCF exclusive thing? (or maybe my computer is just really bad... i hope it fixes itself soon. i can't afford another computer anytime soon at all.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 09, 2017, 12:03:19 pm
Try checking if your system is running the game with your integrated chip. You may have to manually set it to be run with the graphics card.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 09, 2017, 01:28:37 pm
Try checking if your system is running the game with your integrated chip. You may have to manually set it to be run with the graphics card.

my utmost apologies, but how do i do that? i am not very good with computers, after all.

furthermore, if your solution ends up fixing my issue, i will be very, very grateful!! (although i am grateful regardless.) it'll also be good 'cos if anyone has a similar issue and they find this and it works for them as well, then that's even one more person helped if they're struggling with this when it comes to AoCF~
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on May 09, 2017, 10:08:08 pm
No characters leaks this time. The game doesn't even contains "nitori" or "ichirin" in its data file (and I talk about the game's decrypted files of course), so I really doubt there's any trace of new characters. Any leaked character is probably fake (but there's still a chance that I missed it).
th155 tools (yeah, I didn't rename some things so there's a lot of th145 everywhere but it's th155): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRd0hhMkx4WnFqWjA

Also, I heard the hacked binary I made to work on the game fixes the "the game doesn't open" bug, you can download it here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jzCIkoNdTRRFBQOGtXX0lEc1E
Images dump incoming in a few hours.
Your tool didn't seem to extract the background music. Is that a bug with the extractor?
ah, um... after a while of playing, my computer sometimes restarts on its own, but beforehand it freezes then the monitor shuts off and then whatever music was playing spam plays itself in 0.05 intervals or something like that (similar to a "bttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt" noise?)

this sometimes happened with other games such as stardew valley and yandere simulator, but it never happened much with touhou and AoCF.

it's really disappointing since i wanna play the full version as well when its out, but if this problem persists, then... you know.

im assuming it is a graphics card issue? though, it all started when i accidentally set a game called stardew valley's priority to high in task manager (it is been on normal for a while, and i dont play it that much anymore), though im sure that that is entirely coincidential.

i dont think this happened with ULiL, maybe once or twice, but considering that i don't recall, i doubt it.

could this be an AoCF exclusive thing? (or maybe my computer is just really bad... i hope it fixes itself soon. i can't afford another computer anytime soon at all.)
yeah that's not normal Either your computer is overheating or your graphics drivers are crashing.
Make a thread in Tech Support (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html). Install Speccy (http://www.piriform.com/speccy) then post your specs. Also take note of your temperatures when you play each game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on May 09, 2017, 11:06:16 pm
Jut learned that Tasofro played it smart this time by excluding complete data from the demo...

It'll be a year long wait or so for news, then...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on May 10, 2017, 10:07:02 am
Your tool didn't seem to extract the background music. Is that a bug with the extractor?
That's somewhere between "normal behavior" and "known bug".
The filenames aren't in the pak files (only filename hashes), so the extractor need to know the file names beforehand. And you see all the unk_something files? When the extractor doesn't know the filename of a file, it creates an unk_something file. And there's a lot of them because the filenames list is the one from ULiL, all the AoFC-specific filenames are unknown. Finding all these missing filenames is on my TODO list, among other things.
Anyway, back to musics. unk_170D53BD, unk_173816E2 and unk_BCF54E65 are ogg files. Rename them to something.ogg and you will be able to play them in a media player.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: monhan on May 10, 2017, 12:00:45 pm
Hey guys I made a Day 1 combo video focusing on tag combos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOqR1RS1zLE)

Core gameplay is basically the same as ULiL, minus a couple changes (mostly charged projectile properties and the removal of declare cancels since we have tag combos instead)

The tag combo part itself is really neat and allows for a lot of creativity, and I'm really damn happy that occult effects and occult smash balls[/i] orbs are no longer a thing. Those were terrible. The occult effects was almost as bad as soku weather itself.

Pretty nice as always, Gpop.
As expected, the new tag system is the core in making combos this time. They also scrapped some mechanics from ULiL like declare cancel and 200% SC charge among other things.

Tried a few minutes in practice mode, and the first thing I note is that they put a tad too many functions on one button. Will need a gamepad to properly do a combo
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 10, 2017, 01:54:34 pm
yeah that's not normal Either your computer is overheating or your graphics drivers are crashing.
Make a thread in Tech Support (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html). Install Speccy (http://www.piriform.com/speccy) then post your specs. Also take note of your temperatures when you play each game.

thank you!! will do! i don't think it's my computer overheating since i recently cleaned it completely of dust with an aircan, but possibly? but anyhow, i will take the topic there when i can. thanks ~
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on May 10, 2017, 06:18:21 pm
That's somewhere between "normal behavior" and "known bug".
The filenames aren't in the pak files (only filename hashes), so the extractor need to know the file names beforehand. And you see all the unk_something files? When the extractor doesn't know the filename of a file, it creates an unk_something file. And there's a lot of them because the filenames list is the one from ULiL, all the AoFC-specific filenames are unknown. Finding all these missing filenames is on my TODO list, among other things.
Anyway, back to musics. unk_170D53BD, unk_173816E2 and unk_BCF54E65 are ogg files. Rename them to something.ogg and you will be able to play them in a media player.
And it's fixed. The link didn't change.
I also made an image dump: https://mega.nz/#!A9wQGTTR!mJzGcDUT3mpBNvFvV6zdipN4mk9couOBjKRk8jsr5eI
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on May 11, 2017, 03:20:57 am
So the guys at the ULiL discord server found a ToD combo in the demo already (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4MjOPGSyFk).

However, it's very highly unlikely this'll happen in a real match as it requires setting up Mokou's occult effect (blue flames). You can read up about it in the youtube description, but the tl;dr of it is that she has 6 phases of the occult effect, each powering her up but draining her health down faster. This combo uses her 6th phase of her occult effect.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 11, 2017, 08:19:48 am
I'm honestly not bothered by ToD combos considering one of my favourite fighting games is the Fist of the North Star arcade/PS2 game which is full of those.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 11, 2017, 08:32:07 am
Well, that game is pretty much the hilariously fun kind of broken.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 7TC7 on May 11, 2017, 09:04:19 am
So, anyone wanna try explaining what happened to us in the first round here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6HiQq9MqwE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6HiQq9MqwE)

Because that sure was ... something.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2017, 09:20:52 am
my utmost apologies, but how do i do that? i am not very good with computers, after all.
Just google "set default graphics card" plus your card type - nVidia or AMD.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on May 11, 2017, 10:30:10 am
So, anyone wanna try explaining what happened to us in the first round here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6HiQq9MqwE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6HiQq9MqwE)

Because that sure was ... something.
lolwut. Maybe Reimu's sealing field thing has a hitbox for since reason?
Just google "set default graphics card" plus your card type - nVidia or AMD.
He has a desktop with a GeForce 210, so I don't think this applies. I currently suspect overheating.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on May 11, 2017, 11:45:36 am
So, anyone wanna try explaining what happened to us in the first round here?

You can do this!
(http://i.imgur.com/Y58GhdN.gif)

The intention was propably for the talisman to transmit a little damage to Reimu before it got immediately destroyed by the attack. The issue is the talisman fails to die.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Splashman on May 11, 2017, 01:07:10 pm
Win quotes transcribed. This time they were all images, which I dearly hope is something they'll only do for the demo version!

Code: [Select]
data\actor\win\marisa\balloon_0.png
憑依と言っても
身体を乗っ取られるという
感覚とはちょっと違うな
data\actor\win\marisa\balloon_mokou_0.png
お前昔にフェニックスに
憑依されてなかったか?
data\actor\win\marisa\balloon_reimu_0.png
こんな面白い異変も珍しいな
私が調ベてやるよ
data\actor\win\marisa\balloon_udonge_0.png
この完全憑依異変
もしかして月の技術じゃないよな

data\actor\win\mokou\balloon_0.png
完全憑依の原因はよく判らないが
暴れるチャンスが二倍に
なったってことだな
data\actor\win\mokou\balloon_marisa_0.png
今度は私と組もうな
最強の日力でぬるま場の奴らを
焼き尽くそう!
data\actor\win\mokou\balloon_reimu_0.png
暫くは異変解決しなくて良いぜ
楽しいからな
data\actor\win\mokou\balloon_udonge_0.png
お前何か知ってそうだな
やっばりこの異変も
月の民の仕業なのか?

data\actor\win\reimu\balloon_0.png
多分、私一人でも勝ててたわね
data\actor\win\reimu\balloon_1.png
やだ、この異変は楽しい……
いやいや解決しないとね
data\actor\win\reimu\balloon_marisa_0.png
異変解決は私任せて!
あんたは大人しく
スレイブてれば良いのよ
data\actor\win\reimu\balloon_mokou_0.png
そういえば光る竹を見つけた
という噂を聞いたんだけど……
data\actor\win\reimu\balloon_reimu_0.png
あれ?
憑依しすぎなのか私が見える……
data\actor\win\reimu\balloon_udonge_0.png
奴隷根性が染み付いてて
上手くスレイブを扱えてない
みたいね

data\actor\win\udonge\balloon_0.png
完全憑依かー
これも都市伝説異変の影響って
ことよねぇ
data\actor\win\udonge\balloon_marisa_0.png
あんたがマスターだったんだ
見た目からてっきりスレイブかと
data\actor\win\udonge\balloon_mokou_0.png
最初に完全憑依を見たのは
霊夢と貴方が入れ替わった
時なのよねぇ
data\actor\win\udonge\balloon_reimu_0.png
この異変は私が調べます
元、月の兎としての負い目も
ありますので
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on May 11, 2017, 03:54:53 pm
Well, that game is pretty much the hilariously fun kind of broken.

how?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 11, 2017, 04:18:01 pm
how?

Think he was talking about the Fist of the North Star game I mentioned. It's indeed all kinds of broken, with the majority of characters having touch of death combos as well as instant kill moves they can combo into really easily if circumstances are met.
Think Guilty Gear on steroids.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 11, 2017, 05:24:39 pm
Aye, the physics is also just plain wacky too. Ever heard it being called "Hokuto no Basketball"?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on May 11, 2017, 08:15:42 pm
the hnk fighter is a post-apocalyptic basketball game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJd7RAh09SM), yes

appreciating all these amusing clips of things that are going to get fixed
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on May 11, 2017, 08:57:34 pm
All fine and dandy, but is there anyone who can explain the system already?  :V

By mucking around, I've noticed that switching when shooting bullets will also cause the other character to shoot a bullet attack that is exclusive to the tag-out. And I've just only figured out that mashing the switch and spell card buttons will cause the slave to use the spell card after master does - but the slave, apparently, cannot use a spell card on her own. Anything else I'm missing or should know?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 7TC7 on May 11, 2017, 09:42:16 pm
You can do this!

The intention was propably for the talisman to transmit a little damage to Reimu before it got immediately destroyed by the attack. The issue is the talisman fails to die.

Well, that's just silly. I was wondering how easy it would be to recreate it, but from your picture I guess, most bullets can damage Reimu through the talisman
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 13, 2017, 03:57:10 pm
Is it just me or is it impossible to remap the arrow keys to WASD? This is kinda important to me since my right arrow key's kinda busted.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 7TC7 on May 13, 2017, 05:56:48 pm
Is it just me or is it impossible to remap the arrow keys to WASD? This is kinda important to me since my right arrow key's kinda busted.

It works for me. Did you make sure you don't use any of those keys elsewhere in the mapping? And did you press confirm at the bottom of the key-mapping screen?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Flowers of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 13, 2017, 06:00:23 pm
...Well, this is embarrassing. Turns out I forgot to actually select the keyboard side of the bindings.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 16, 2017, 08:55:29 am
dream post time!

i had a dream where wakasagi was playable, and her last word  had bubble-like things.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 20, 2017, 02:48:33 am
Some Fridge Horror I've just realized about this whole "Perfect Possession" thing...

In the ending of the Extra Stage of ULiL PS4, Reimu was shown to be suffering the excruciating pain that came from Mokou's regenerative powers as a Hourai Immortal. And given that Mokou pretty much DIED several times and regenerated just as many times, this must be one hell of an excruciating pain for Reimu...
Worse yet: the ending also looks to me that whatever injuries inflicted upon Mokou that isn't fully healed, Reimu KEEPS them! Thankfully the injuries kept are not bad enough to be fatal, but imagine if it was something worse...like shattered ribs, broken spine, amputated limbs, having a large fraction of the head blown off... And we all know that Reimu's death will lead to the collapse of the Hakurei Barrier... *Shudders*
Even worse: before the fight began, Reimu immediately blames her losing control of her body on possession, shortly before literally turning into Mokou. That line seems to be implying that during the entirety of the fight against Mokou, Reimu is FULLY AWARE of what is happening: Mokou giving the Spell Card Rules the middle finger and tries to kill Reisen - a friend! And Reimu couldn't do anything but be forced to watch "herself" try to kill a friend using one excruciatingly painful Kamikaze attack after another, and said friend killing her back several times in self-defense!
I would be extremely surprised if Reimu didn't develop worse PTSD than Reisen did from the Lunar War after all that...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nebulae--Addict on May 20, 2017, 02:21:01 pm
you've made this too deep
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on May 21, 2017, 05:32:49 am
Some Fridge Horror I've just realized about this whole "Perfect Possession" thing...

In the ending of the Extra Stage of ULiL PS4, Reimu was shown to be suffering the excruciating pain that came from Mokou's regenerative powers as a Hourai Immortal. And given that Mokou pretty much DIED several times and regenerated just as many times, this must be one hell of an excruciating pain for Reimu...
Worse yet: the ending also looks to me that whatever injuries inflicted upon Mokou that isn't fully healed, Reimu KEEPS them! Thankfully the injuries kept are not bad enough to be fatal, but imagine if it was something worse...like shattered ribs, broken spine, amputated limbs, having a large fraction of the head blown off... And we all know that Reimu's death will lead to the collapse of the Hakurei Barrier... *Shudders*
Even worse: before the fight began, Reimu immediately blames her losing control of her body on possession, shortly before literally turning into Mokou. That line seems to be implying that during the entirety of the fight against Mokou, Reimu is FULLY AWARE of what is happening: Mokou giving the Spell Card Rules the middle finger and tries to kill Reisen - a friend! And Reimu couldn't do anything but be forced to watch "herself" try to kill a friend using one excruciatingly painful Kamikaze attack after another, and said friend killing her back several times in self-defense!
I would be extremely surprised if Reimu didn't develop worse PTSD than Reisen did from the Lunar War after all that...

Is Mokou still trying to find a way to die as a human being?

Then again, it's possible the perpetrator deliberately starting the "Perfect Possesion incident" more than just experimenting her abilities to transfering one soul from one body to another, but also making every ULiL participants life like a living hell.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 21, 2017, 09:43:45 am
Is Mokou still trying to find a way to die as a human being?

Then again, it's possible the perpetrator deliberately starting the "Perfect Possesion incident" more than just experimenting her abilities to transfering one soul from one body to another, but also making every ULiL participants life like a living hell.

But still, I find it chilling that Mokou is the first character in canon to blatantly violate the "all battles must be non-lethal" part of the Spell Card Rules when she decided to kill Reisen in ULiL PS4 Extra Stage.
Even the most villainous and literally insane 2hus ever presented - Flandre, Tenshi, Utsuho, Seija, Junko and Hecatia - kept their attacks non-lethal. But Mokou, the one you least expect to give the SCR the middle finger, is the first to do so in canon...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Flandre5carlet on May 21, 2017, 12:06:07 pm
But still, I find it chilling that Mokou is the first character in canon to blatantly violate the "all battles must be non-lethal" part of the Spell Card Rules
Can we really say that when some characters have what appears to be very muchly lethal danmaku, like Sakuya's knives?
Also, Seija has a whole game about breaking the rules and everyone else in turn breaking the rules to fight her.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on May 21, 2017, 12:32:28 pm
But still, I find it chilling that Mokou is the first character in canon to blatantly violate the "all battles must be non-lethal" part of the Spell Card Rules when she decided to kill Reisen in ULiL PS4 Extra Stage.
Even the most villainous and literally insane 2hus ever presented - Flandre, Tenshi, Utsuho, Seija, Junko and Hecatia - kept their attacks non-lethal. But Mokou, the one you least expect to give the SCR the middle finger, is the first to do so in canon...

What about Junko? Doesn't she also violates the spell card rule?

By the way, what I am talking about is the final boss' motives to perpetrates the whole Perfect Possession incident.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrystalCreation on May 21, 2017, 01:46:01 pm
What about Junko? Doesn't she also violates the spell card rule?

Junko wanting to actually kill the player is pure fan speculation made up to justify her poor bullet patterns. It even contradicts the ponitdevice route in which she pretty much admits defeat as soon as she encounters the purified protagonists. She just keeps fighting to vent out her anger.

Even Mokou isn’t really breaking the spellcard rules since she is still using non-lethal attacks like everyone else. Her dying and resurrecting is just part of her ‘skill set’ which she can channel into (non-lethal) attacks.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: D-T on May 21, 2017, 03:57:41 pm
The characters say that they're going to kill or murder each other all the time. Just because they say it don't mean that they actually want to do it. Mokou fighting Reisen in ULiL PS4 was purely venting some frustration and definitely was not an actual murder attempt.
Title: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 22, 2017, 12:43:14 am
The characters say that they're going to kill or murder each other all the time. Just because they say it don't mean that they actually want to do it. Mokou fighting Reisen in ULiL PS4 was purely venting some frustration and definitely was not an actual murder attempt.

Yet the ferocity of her attacks in ULiL PS4 Extra are at such a high level, she actually gave me impressions of her intentionally saying "Eff you, I'm gonna kill this bitch" to the Spell Card Rules before attacking Reisen.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on May 22, 2017, 02:45:02 am
But Mokou, the one you least expect to give the SCR the middle finger
I like how you say this but immediately assume she was trying to kill Reisen anyways. Like ok. Maybe there is another explanation that actually makes sense, perhaps?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Camilo113 on May 22, 2017, 08:37:21 pm
Yet the ferocity of her attacks in ULiL PS4 Extra are at such a high level, she actually gave me impressions of her intentionally saying "Eff you, I'm gonna kill this bitch" to the Spell Card Rules before attacking Reisen.
But that's not what she actually says nor she ever implies she wants to kill Reisen while violating Spell Card rules.

(http://i.imgur.com/nFgPWu8.png)

Are you seriously basing this whole thing on the fact you found her Stage to be particularly difficult?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: D-T on May 22, 2017, 10:51:03 pm
Not only all of that, it's far from the first time people ignored the spell card rules, because that is literally the entire plot of Impossible Spell Card.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: dark36 on May 22, 2017, 11:18:29 pm
i don't think that they actually broke the rules in Impossible Spell Card its just Seija trying to justify her cheating. the fact that its possible to beat the whole game without using the cheat items means that the spell aren't actually impossible they are just really hard to beat.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on May 23, 2017, 12:04:24 am
i don't think that they actually broke the rules in Impossible Spell Card its just Seija trying to justify her cheating. the fact that its possible to beat the whole game without using the cheat items means that the spell aren't actually impossible they are just really hard to beat.
It's just story/gameplay segregation. Both the "narrator" and the ones talking to Seija say they are impossible and that rules will be broken.

"For the next few days, the assassins will attack with impossible spell cards that ignore the rules!"

And so on.

Not sure what made people think Mokou wanted to kill Reisen, tho.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on May 23, 2017, 04:13:47 pm
Yeah. Gameplay/story segregation. Similar to how you can get "bad ends" in the normal games where you aren't as good as the girls canonly are, you can play better than Seiga would actually be capable of and no-item-clear stages. Also seen in GFW Extra; Cirno's the one beat up at the end, even if technically it's possible to flawlessly defeat Marisa without even standing in the low-power lasers. Doesn't hurt that Seiga's implied to not be -that- great at danmaku in DDC, and that she probably would cheat the attacks before seriously attempting to do 'em legit (a large portion of them require dozens of retries to no-item regardless of skill, anyway- even excluding the top 20% hardest cards)

Anyway, yeah, with the translated dialogue brought up... Mokou's fighting fiercely but there's really no reason to believe she's attempting to commit murder. She was just a bit more pumped up than usual.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on May 23, 2017, 10:48:53 pm
She was more fired up than usual. There are often times when the characters say something alluding to killing someone anyway. Take Remilia saying that you killed Sakuya.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 24, 2017, 05:40:31 pm
Hey

even if mokou (did or didn't) kill reisen she'll always respawn

the characters when defeated explode into a small yellow spark

then respawn


on another note

>tfw no kumoi as a playable character in the demo  :^^^^(
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on May 25, 2017, 02:18:11 am
Since this game is getting closer and closer to release now. I figured that I would write a list of the 4 characters that I would like to see:

Seiga
Shou
Kaguya (so that she could be an actually interesting character for once instead of just an lame sexist stereotype.)
Uuuuh..... Clownpiece maybe?

Oh wait this is fucking Twilight Frontier we're talking about, here's what I'm expecting to get instead:
Cirno
Reimlia
Sakuya
Youmu
Its really lame how Twilight Frontier always goes with what they think fans want instead what they actually need.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on May 25, 2017, 02:34:15 am
Its really lame how Twilight Frontier always goes with what they think fans want instead what they actually need.

I don't know what that even means.
Oh wait this is fucking Twilight Frontier we're talking about, here's what I'm expecting to get instead:
Cirno
Reimlia
Sakuya
Youmu
It's already been confirmed that all the new characters will be new to fighters. Nobody from the IaMP-Hisou era will be added to this game (bar Reimu and Marisa, of course). Plus none of those characters have been in a fighter for..... five years, I think? Idk why you'd think Tasofro would add them now as opposed to HM or ULiL.

Anyway, I'm not sure about specific characters, but here's what I think we'll see (from most likely in my mind to least likely):

A new character (duh)
A LoLK character (it's a toss-up between them, really. The only person I'd be surprised to see is Doremy.)
A character from pre-DDC (maybe Nue?)
A second LoLK character
A DDC character (could be Seija or Raiko)
A second new character
A character from pre-MoF (Kaguya, probably)
Kosuzu

As for who I want to see...
New Boss
Seija
Nue
Junko/Clownpiece
Hecatia
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on May 25, 2017, 03:29:06 am
I don't know what that even means.

I mean that Twilight Frontier loves to use popular characters instead of characters that actually make sense. Like Nitori and Reisen.

Sorry for phrasing that badly.
I don't know what that even means.It's already been confirmed that all the new characters will be new to fighters.
Can i please get a source for that?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Camilo113 on May 25, 2017, 03:48:33 am
I mean that Twilight Frontier loves to use popular characters instead of characters that actually make sense. Like Nitori and Reisen.
Where did you get the idea Tasofro is the one who chooses which characters appear and which don't?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on May 25, 2017, 04:21:07 am
Can i please get a source for that?

Huh. Now that you mention it, I CAN'T find a source for it. Looking back, I just see someone saying it's already been confirmed that the new characters will be ones that haven't appeared in fighters yet, and then much later on a bunch of other people claiming it. I wonder if it's really true, or if someone else can find a source.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on May 25, 2017, 06:25:47 am

Anyway, I'm not sure about specific characters, but here's what I think we'll see (from most likely in my mind to least likely):

A new character (duh)
A LoLK character (it's a toss-up between them, really. The only person I'd be surprised to see is Doremy.)
A character from pre-DDC (maybe Nue?)
A second LoLK character
A DDC character (could be Seija or Raiko)
A second new character
A character from pre-MoF (Kaguya, probably)
Kosuzu

As for who I want to see...
New Boss
Seija
Nue
Junko/Clownpiece
Hecatia

For the representatives from LoLK, Sagume is possibly the biggest candidate of being one of the new rosters in AoCF, considering she's partially responsible for the whole mess in ULiL and LoLK. Mainly, secretly using Sumireko during Reimu's finale arc by making her obtaining the Lunar Capital Occult Orb, allowing the people of Lunar Capital migrating to Gensokyo just for escaping from Junko's purifying ability. If she is included in roster, expect her story is about how she deals with the Perfect Possession incident, along with dealing the one who responsible for the incident. Another possible LoLK representatives are Clownpiece and Hecatia. In their storyline, I can imagine if they also investigating the Perfect Possession incident with their own method. I expect Hecatia will have a similar distaste to the final boss of the game, not unlike Komachi towards Tenshi during her scenario in SWR. In this case, Hecatia dislikes the final boss' intention of messing everyone's mind, body and soul.

From DDC, Seija and Raiko also being good additions too. But considering Seija being an outlaw (even by Gensokyo standards), Raiko might be one and only DDC representative to join in AoCF roster.

In terms of penultimate boss, along with the final boss, another newcomer might be take this position, possibly making the first time since SWR to include a newcomer as a penultimate boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on May 25, 2017, 08:55:13 am
Huh. Now that you mention it, I CAN'T find a source for it. Looking back, I just see someone saying it's already been confirmed that the new characters will be ones that haven't appeared in fighters yet, and then much later on a bunch of other people claiming it. I wonder if it's really true, or if someone else can find a source.
At the very least, someone said it on twitter
https://twitter.com/aaaaari35/status/807983252438822913
Apparently was said during the announcement? Should wait for someone here to confirm i suppose.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on May 25, 2017, 09:27:42 am
I can't see Sagume giving a crap of whatever is happening in Gensokyo, her fault or otherwise.

The LoLK playable character would probably be Clownpiece, Seiran, or Ringo, who are all already in Gensokyo. If Sumi's dream thingy turns out to be involved, Doremy has a high chance to get in, too.

Other than that, no idea. The Perfect Possession doesn't seem to have any limit to its victims, so theoretically everyone can get in. Personally I think it would be neat if we see rarely-appearing characters. So below is just a wishlist:

- Kaguya. Mokou already got in, so why not.
- Flandre. We haven't seen anything from her for a long time. Might be interesting to see how acts if she got dragged outside due to the possession.
- Kogasa. Surprise!
- Raiko. Can't think of any reason for her to get in, but I like her.
- Yuuka. Hey, both the Japanese and English title has "flowers" in them.
- Momiji or Hatate. Some tengu that's not Aya for a change.
- Yuugi. Possible interesting interactions with Kasen.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on May 25, 2017, 12:44:52 pm
Quote
Doremy
Doremy might seems like a weird choice when it comes to possible characters, but after thinking about it, she surprisingly has various things going for her that would make her a logical choice to put in the roster. Like, going by ULiL's extra mode, Urban legend users are more likely to be affected by the perfect possession incident. While literally anyone can change the nature of the materialized urban legends by spreading rumors, actually using a specific urban legend requires some compatibility between the potential user and a specific urban legend : the thing is that the user may not necessarily pick the urban legend herself, like with Mokou getting her urban legend from Kasen or some random passerby sticking the Kunekune urban legend behind Reisen's back. So basically, it's possible to make someone become an urban legend user, without their consent.

So... what do any of that have to do with Doremy ? Well, AFiEU kinda have that one article about "this girl" that people claim to have seen in their dreams, complete with a hand-drawney sketch of Doremy's face with especially thick eyebrows... the whole article really reminds of this man (http://www.thisman.org/)'s urban legend . Seems pretty compatible with Doremy due to obvious reasons. What if Doremy ended up with this one urban legend (albeit altered a bit cuz she a grill) ? There might also be various stuff that can be explored easily with Doremy, like the dream souls in case they DO turn out to be relevant, anything with "differents locations" and the Dream World, Sumireko shenanigans or whatever... How would she fare in a fitegame, that, I do not know, but neither did anyone see how Koishi would be a fighter, so... why the hell not  :V ?! Dunno how an incident that involves Gensokyo would manage to involve someone from the Dream World, tho...

At any rate, whoever's gonna get in this game are characters that can go together with urban legends. I'm especially curious to see whether someone's gonna come with the "Moon landing hoax" urban legend from LoLK...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on May 25, 2017, 12:52:28 pm
But still, I find it chilling that Mokou is the first character in canon to blatantly violate the "all battles must be non-lethal" part of the Spell Card Rules when she decided to kill Reisen in ULiL PS4 Extra Stage.
Even the most villainous and literally insane 2hus ever presented - Flandre, Tenshi, Utsuho, Seija, Junko and Hecatia - kept their attacks non-lethal. But Mokou, the one you least expect to give the SCR the middle finger, is the first to do so in canon...
Sakuya uses knives, and Youmu has a sword.  I don't see how those can be nonlethal...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 25, 2017, 06:48:02 pm
@the old guy: You do know that TF aren't the ones in charge of picking characters for the roster, right
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on May 25, 2017, 07:39:16 pm
On the one hand Sagume already accomplished her goal with the occult orbs. She was going to move the lunar capital to gensokyo, but since the heroes beat up Junko she doesn't have to. She doesn't care about gensokyo or sumireko or the occult balls or any of that- her issue is already taken care of so she has no reason to get involved. That's the reason the urban legend incident is still going on in the first place- Sagume is either unable or unwilling to fix it.

On the other hand, I can definitely see her getting accidentally dragged in. Perfect Possession doesn't seem like an intentional thing among the people affected by it (at least not at first) so maybe she got swapped with some earthling and is pissed about it now.

Also, every LoLK character except for Doremy and Sagume are now either in Gensokyo or come and go freely. Junko and Hecatia are hanging out at Eintei.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on May 26, 2017, 09:20:41 am
I don't think the Urban Legend reaches the moon, or anywhere outside Gensokyo. Sure, Sagume, Hecatia, or Junko could be affected if they were visiting Eientei during the incident, but that's kind of forcing it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VividMemory2000 on May 31, 2017, 02:49:56 pm
I want a Prismriver sister to appear in the game
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on June 09, 2017, 09:42:45 am
Comiket 92 info is out! Amazingly, Tasofro is in the list of circles that lost the lottery (which might also mean they had withdrawn their application?). If they were to release something AoCF at C92 (as their circle cut indicates), they will have to do it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on June 09, 2017, 10:08:59 am
Comiket 92 info is out! Amazingly, it looks like Tasofro has lost the raffle this time, so if they were to release something AoCF at C92 (as their circle cut indicates), they will have to do it elsewhere.
What do you mean they lost the raffle? They can't appear in Comiket?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on June 09, 2017, 11:24:35 am
There are a fixed number of circles Comiket can accommodate for. Invariably there are more applicants than booths, so a raffle is done to select which circles get booths.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on June 09, 2017, 12:25:01 pm
This year was particularly tight since they can't use all of West Hall for anything besides the corporate area so it's pretty rough.

(Although I managed to get in somehow rofl)

But seeing some other tweets by people who are "in the know" it's possible they just cancelled their application.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on June 09, 2017, 01:36:08 pm
In whichever case they are quiet now. Touhou twitter is still exploding over it.

It's generally believed (and likely true) a circle as important as Tasofro would receive a so-called "blue envelope" (http://www.paradisearmy.com/doujin/pasok7i.htm) from Comiket. An application submitted with it can bypass the lottery, or at least has a high chance of winning. Some say Tasofro may have missed submitting something (like the blue envelope itself). reasoning they would have told us if they had withdrawn.

But... I think we are already used to Tasofro taking their time to clarify stuff.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on June 09, 2017, 03:16:11 pm
They already said AoCF was only 20% done when the demo came out and that they might not be able to finish in time for comiket, right? Them cancelling isn't a huge surprise...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on June 09, 2017, 03:28:53 pm
yeah i highly doubt the game would have come out anyway

that being said, well, uh, lol?

maybe they could spend some more time fixing that startup crash in the meantime, huh!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on June 10, 2017, 08:05:06 am
In tomorrow's (9 PM, June 11 JST) Touhou Station Episode 2 stream, Unabara will make an emergency appearance for an interview about failing to enter Comiket.

The main topic of the ep is the recent "Reitaisai in Taiwan".

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv297551890
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on June 10, 2017, 03:06:27 pm
I shouldn't be laughing at this but I just can't stop.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on June 11, 2017, 02:39:20 pm
The interview happened at the start. The truth is unsurprising: Tasofro once targeted a summer Comiket release, but had withdrawn from the lottery since the target is quite impossible. The full version will be released at "an event in or after Fall 2017" - they discussed their options, but nothing is set in stone. There will be a web demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on June 11, 2017, 11:13:08 pm
Not a huge surprise, but Tasofro seems like they seriously don't have their act together. I have to wonder if they're planning on pulling another HM and just rushing the game out to make a fall release?


I want to be optimistic and hope that this is to give the game all the polish and care it needs to avoid another buggy, glitchy mess, but the fact that they failed to make an announcement in advance and on top of their recent track record (their only game aside from HM and ULiL to come out of late was shoot shoot nitori in 2014, and that was a completely garbage effort for a circle that's been around for as long as they have been), it's not really looking good for ACoF...

Here's hoping they can pull through and deliver us a good game!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: mauve on June 12, 2017, 01:29:29 am
i... wouldn't criticize them for having trouble. game development is legitimately hard, especially of something as complicated and asset-heavy as a fighting game. nearly a thousand frames per character was the norm for iamp/swr/soku! that's a lot!

honestly if you think about it, it's absolutely insane that they were able to produce the games that they did, when they did.

when you do that it's easy to just bit off way more than you could chew. HM's original design was a straight up copy of Astra Superstars, right down to the popularity mechanic, very unambitious game design. however, someone clearly had a point to prove as they spent a lot of time and effort patching it over time.

i will absolutely criticize them for having completely useless anti-hacking code that harms normal users though, they deserve that.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on June 13, 2017, 08:24:05 am
What are the chances of it not coming out until 2018?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on June 13, 2017, 09:03:26 am
That would depend entirely on them having it ready for Winter Comiket or not, which is immediately before New Years. I doubt they'd release it at Fall Reitaisai even if it was ready then.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on June 15, 2017, 06:50:30 am
i will absolutely criticize them for having completely useless anti-hacking code that harms normal users though, they deserve that.

Have you contacted them to provide the feedback on that? As well as share your suggestions on improving their netcode?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: cuc on June 19, 2017, 04:45:42 pm
From the Nikenme Radio stream (Jun 19): AoCF's design phase has recently concluded, moving into full production.

The initial plan for AoCF was to have the demo out at Winter Comiket 2016, and full release at Reitaisai this year. The entire schedule was delayed to develop ULiL for PS4.

Some other tidbits:

- In the early days ZUN longed for the live performance experience, and deliberately made his music to have that "live" feel. He no longer does that.
- The fighting game themes are especially long due to the gameplay, and harder to write.
- He has been playing EoSD and other older games, and now finds them very user unfriendly.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on June 19, 2017, 05:47:41 pm
- He has been playing EoSD and other older games, and now finds them very user unfriendly.
Touhou: Remastering of Definitive Experience confirmed.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on June 19, 2017, 05:51:53 pm
Touhou: Remastering of Definitive Experience confirmed.
Maybe, except he's lost the data from everything before MoF, so it'd probably be rather difficult for him to try and revisit development on the old games even if he wanted to.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shizzo on June 19, 2017, 07:24:49 pm
I mean, considering the original EoSD version - the one ZUN probably played - is that release version where you don't even have a hitbox showing?  Yeah they're quite user unfriendly. 
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on June 20, 2017, 12:28:19 am

- In the early days ZUN longed for the live performance experience, and deliberately made his music to have that "live" feel. He no longer does that.
So it's not only feelings that his music has been sounding more "background"-y.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Romantique Tp on June 20, 2017, 02:49:59 am
That doesn't even make sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on June 27, 2017, 11:55:51 am
I think Ran is a very unlikely new character, but I just realized she DOES use a urban legend in one of her spell cards: "Kokkuri-san's Contract".
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VTPHOENIX on June 28, 2017, 05:47:48 pm
I think Ran is a very unlikely new character, but I just realized she DOES use a urban legend in one of her spell cards: "Kokkuri-san's Contract".

I'm not that sure about that, though...
But perhaps ZUN likes using all that unlikeliness to get people to create awesome theories. And when the game is finally released and owned, the players face much disappointment. Trust, now, as I have felt this with every game since PCB, although I can't help but expect an uncertain twist.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on September 05, 2017, 01:54:01 pm
Looks like Tasofro will be at Autumn Reitaisai.

博麗神社秋季例大祭参加情報
10月15日開催の博麗神社秋季例大祭に参加します。
配置は「あ01ab」黄昏フロンティアです。

(From their site)

Also i know there aren't leaked characters this time, but did someone try to do it like they did for ULiL? I don't remember.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on September 06, 2017, 12:06:32 am
Looks like Tasofro will be at Autumn Reitaisai.

博麗神社秋季例大祭参加情報
10月15日開催の博麗神社秋季例大祭に参加します。
配置は「あ01ab」黄昏フロンティアです。

(From their site)

Also i know there aren't leaked characters this time, but did someone try to do it like they did for ULiL? I don't remember.
No character data in the demo this time. Tasofro got smart.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VTPHOENIX on September 06, 2017, 01:43:31 am
Quote
No character data in the demo this time. Tasofro got smart.

Too bad for me, then... I love character data leaks.  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on September 10, 2017, 03:58:08 pm
Tasofro revealed they will be releasing a new demo at Autumn Reitaisai next month. It will have everyone that appeared in ULiL including Reisen as well as tweaks to the system to help encourage using tag mechanics. Might not see any new characters but they didn't rule it out. One of the screenshots was a mock-up of the character select screen with 6 blank spots. If one is for random select, then there'll be 5 new characters for a total roster of 20.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on September 10, 2017, 04:45:10 pm
Tasofro revealed they will be releasing a new demo at Autumn Reitaisai next month. It will have everyone that appeared in ULiL including Reisen as well as tweaks to the system to help encourage using tag mechanics. Might not see any new characters but they didn't rule it out. One of the screenshots was a mock-up of the character select screen with 6 blank spots. If one is for random select, then there'll be 5 new characters for a total roster of 20.
For ULiL, leak aside, Mokou and Shinmyoumaru were only revealed days before the actual game, right? I'm not expecting them to reveal any new characters yet.

Although since last WaHH chapter suddenly mentioned Garden of the Sun after so long, I'm hoping for Yuuka.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on September 10, 2017, 04:57:18 pm
They revealed Kasen way before, tho. So maybe it's not that unlikely for one of the new ones to show up.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Kafuu on September 10, 2017, 05:39:19 pm
TH15.5 AoCF latest information (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNwA8pCM5_E)

FOUR new characters apparently

Quote
Unabara Iruka: Center one is just empty slot. The middle slot of the top is for random select.
Unabara Iruka: I asked ZUN to reveal some new characters and he said "It's too early"
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on September 10, 2017, 10:24:17 pm
A demo with the entire cast of ULiL? Single-player content aside, that's basically a full fighting game!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on September 10, 2017, 11:03:45 pm
19 characters is such a weird choice for a fighting game. Did they just run out of resources and they had to cut one character or something?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on September 10, 2017, 11:22:10 pm
Well, the final boss is supposedly superpowerful this time (like, more than usual), so she likely won't have a partner at least in story mode, leading to the odd number of characters?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on September 11, 2017, 01:33:59 am
"Well the game is numbered 15.5, but uh 16 already came out, oops"

actual quote
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on September 11, 2017, 08:17:15 am
Unabara Iruka: Center one is just empty slot. The middle slot of the top is for random select.
Unabara Iruka: I asked ZUN to reveal some new characters and he said "It's too early"

For this series, it's always too early until a week before release.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Despatche on September 11, 2017, 02:56:16 pm
19 characters is such a weird choice for a fighting game. Did they just run out of resources and they had to cut one character or something?
Ehh, a lot of older games had odd character counts. Often you'd have an even amount of regular characters but just one boss character, etc. Every now and then you'd have an odd number of bosses, like with World Heroes Perfect.

"Well the game is numbered 15.5, but uh 16 already came out, oops"

actual quote
Hmm, did they forget that Suimusou and Hisouten were like that though???
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on September 11, 2017, 03:19:18 pm
Ehh, a lot of older games had odd character counts. Often you'd have an even amount of regular characters but just one boss character, etc. Every now and then you'd have an odd number of bosses, like with World Heroes Perfect.

I think he was saying more because of the partner system. I guess this just means the final boss will be fighting alone against the two protags, then.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on September 11, 2017, 03:19:54 pm
Hold it. 19? Didn't they say there would be 20 characters before?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on September 11, 2017, 09:11:14 pm
Hmm, did they forget that Suimusou and Hisouten were like that though???
It was tongue-in-cheek in case that wasn't clear, whether they were thinking about this or not.

Hold it. 19? Didn't they say there would be 20 characters before?
No. You will see me calling this out  way back when SCoOW was published (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20471.msg1325975.html#msg1325975), but the "exactly 20 characters" assumption spread too fast to catch and now you have to deal with your self-inflicted disappointment lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VividMemory2000 on September 12, 2017, 09:45:01 am
Quote
Unabara Iruka: Center one is just empty slot. The middle slot of the top is for random select.


It would make sense to make the top slot 1+ to the character roster
and the center middle spot random

But whatever floats their boat. im still hyped to see the demo!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on September 12, 2017, 01:12:17 pm
Center slot is reserved for the inevitable PS4-exclusive character.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on September 13, 2017, 04:48:12 am
Center slot is reserved for the inevitable PS4-exclusive character.
I forget, was a PS4 version of 15.5 ever announced or was it just PC for now?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on September 13, 2017, 11:13:48 am
Tasofro revealed they will be releasing a new demo at Autumn Reitaisai next month. It will have everyone that appeared in ULiL including Reisen
Hmm, but i'm reading on tumblr (hungrybookworm) and FB (Monhan) that the demo will only add Ichirin and Nitori?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on September 13, 2017, 02:31:44 pm
When Reitaisai?  Next month what date?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VividMemory2000 on September 13, 2017, 03:39:18 pm
When Reitaisai?  Next month what date?

October 15th (JP)

14th (west)



sucks i can't go due to sessions   ;^(
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on September 15, 2017, 10:45:34 am
I wonder if there's any chance of AoCF being renumbered 16.5? Nothing in WaHH, VFiS and FS seemed to reference it at all despite the incident being already over by now. Which is weird because we know this possession thing should already be noticeable due to ULiL PS4 story.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on September 15, 2017, 01:05:57 pm
I wonder if there's any chance of AoCF being renumbered 16.5? Nothing in WaHH, VFiS and FS seemed to reference it at all despite the incident being already over by now. Which is weird because we know this possession thing should already be noticeable due to ULiL PS4 story.

Don't think there is going to be any renumbering. Immaterial and Missing Power (7.5) is released after Imperishable Nights ( 8 ), but set before it. And IaMP did not get relabelled as TH8.5 at any point since its release
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MitoriKawashiro on September 21, 2017, 04:00:55 am
Meanwhile, im hoping that tsukumo sisters would make an appreance, tbh, they were underrated but i really want they to be playable, time to make underrated characters rise! Especially my waifu, Yatsuhashi
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hellish_moon on September 30, 2017, 10:38:25 am
I really hope to see 2hus from HSiFS in this fighting, to be honest. I think it'd be cool to play as Nemuno or Okina haha. And since Eiki Shiki is directly connected to PoFV incident, I think there might be a chance of her appearing.

P.s. Please don't make it PS4 exclusive, ZUN.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on September 30, 2017, 11:21:21 am
I really hope to see 2hus from HSiFS in this fighting, to be honest. I think it'd be cool to play as Nemuno or Okina haha. And since Eiki Shiki is directly connected to PoFV incident, I think there might be a chance of her appearing.

P.s. Please don't make it PS4 exclusive, ZUN.

Not happening; AoCF takes place before HSiFS, and the protagonists know none of the HSiFS characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hellish_moon on September 30, 2017, 12:42:41 pm
Not happening; AoCF takes place before HSiFS, and the protagonists know none of the HSiFS characters.

Ah, right, I slipped up haha, sorry.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on September 30, 2017, 03:10:29 pm
And since Eiki Shiki is directly connected to PoFV incident, I think there might be a chance of her appearing.
What does Eiki and PoFV have to do with this game?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: hellish_moon on September 30, 2017, 05:07:25 pm
What does Eiki and PoFV have to do with this game?

NVM Eiki and PoFV part in my post, I wasn't thinking clearly (being silly is my specialty haha) ^^"
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on October 04, 2017, 02:12:23 am
Wasn't SWR meant to be 9.8 originally before they decided to move it up to 10.5? It even had Youkai Mountain and Reimu's Youkai Buster and Aya's Illusionary Dominance from MoF by the time they finished it, despite the trial version coming out alongside full MoF, nine months earlier. And Hisoutensoku had some major roster shuffles in development phase before settling on the final five, yet they even dropped the nod to simultaneously-released UFO in form of Sanae's Sky Serpent and Cobalt Spread specials.

Point is, moving AoCF into 16.5 and adjusting would pose no problem at all in itself. But of course, that would depend on their estimated time of release (winter comiket or later) and whether any of the characters from HSiFS fit their vision for the game in particular - Mai and Satono would propably be pretty amusing and would fit the duo motif pretty well. And all we have on AoCF's plot so far is one short story that's chronologically separate from ULiL to begin with, of questionable canonicity due to being console-exclusive or at least clearly not meant to be necessary to get properly introduced to the plot of AoCF. All they need to do is state that it actually takes place post-HSiFS to avoid any canon conflict - or even make the spread of Perfect Possession gradual enough to fly under the radar of Reimu during the season insanity.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on October 06, 2017, 10:49:53 am
They just updated the page with a new trailer for the Autumn Reitaisai demo. And you're not dreaming, it does show off a new character. http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/index.html

As far as what's new in the demo itself, the page mentions Ichirin and Nitori will be playable, and the items that show up in battle will have a stronger effect.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on October 06, 2017, 11:18:59 am
uoooooooooooooo
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on October 06, 2017, 11:32:20 am
Her hat is HUGE!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ☆ Kana ☆ on October 06, 2017, 11:41:19 am
Doremy?! Looks like this game could be worth the extra wait after all...  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on October 06, 2017, 12:24:46 pm
This was a very nice surprise. I'd never expect her.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Helepolis on October 06, 2017, 12:28:37 pm
People are going pretty hype over Doremy being in.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on October 06, 2017, 12:31:13 pm
If there's anything the previous installments have told us, it's that all official games have a new face as the final boss.

Wonder what this newhu looks like, and what species she will be...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on October 06, 2017, 12:31:25 pm
Indeed. I am very, very pleased with this.  :]
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on October 06, 2017, 12:34:35 pm
Hell yeah Dorm Suite.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 06, 2017, 01:34:07 pm
What are the chances of the whole roster being known before release?  Other than the final boss, obviously.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on October 06, 2017, 03:12:30 pm
Wooooooooooow, I kinda expected "her" to pop up in this game for reasons I mentionned previously but even I half-expected her to actually get in the game, but there she is, and in a demo, no less ! I bet her urban legend is SOOOO gonna be based of the "this man" one. Nice sheep bullets btw.
 
... at any rate, even though I've been through the releases of various Touhou games, Tasofro's reveals always manage to have that little something that catches you of guard. This one managed to catch me by surprise as well ~ now I'm really looking forward to the demo  :D

also nice drill punch, Nitori
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VividMemory2000 on October 06, 2017, 04:33:15 pm
They just updated the page with a new trailer for the Autumn Reitaisai demo. And you're not dreaming, it does show off a new character. http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/index.html

As far as what's new in the demo itself, the page mentions Ichirin and Nitori will be playable, and the items that show up in battle will have a stronger effect.

Lol nice reference
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on October 06, 2017, 05:14:44 pm
Of all the character that I think appear, Doremy is the least likely of them...Though the implication of her appearance is interesting.

As Touhou's fan, you should already know about the "Butterfly Dream": Is it that we dreamt about the butterfly, or is the butterfly dream about us? Since Doremy is involved, it make me think that the possession mechanic is entirely (or partly) based around that, in which 2 people are sharing a same "dream", so to speak, and as such they share the same "reality". One person could be "asleep", watching the action the partner take as in the dream, and vice-versa.

...This mean that, if my conjecture is true, then pile upon spirit, dream is involved also, making the theme of an impossible dream more complex. Moreover, this could finally connect the "Humaned Away" incident with this, finally suggesting that the newhu would also be the perpetrator of that incident, or at the very least exploit that.

Edit:...Also, if Doremy is involved, then it could also be possible that Eirin would also be playable too... I don't know, just remember that Eirin does make a "Butterfly dream" pill.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on October 06, 2017, 10:25:58 pm
Of all the character that I think appear, Doremy is the least likely of them...Though the implication of her appearance is interesting.
Thats ZUN for you
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 06, 2017, 10:35:08 pm
Found on 4chan.  Real or fake?
(http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1507307999795.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ChronaSE on October 06, 2017, 11:26:28 pm
I'm shocked, I think I've read somewhere here that Doremy might appear but its actually happening ... :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on October 07, 2017, 12:28:30 am
Wooooooooooow, I kinda expected "her" to pop up in this game for reasons I mentionned previously but even I half-expected her to actually get in the game, but there she is, and in a demo, no less !
She's not going to be in the demo from the looks of it. They just put her in the video as a teaser.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on October 07, 2017, 01:35:57 am
I thought she'd be the least likely of the LoLK characters to show up too (maybe after Sagume). I wonder if she's going to be the only one we get.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on October 07, 2017, 01:49:21 am
(http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1507307999795.jpg)
Quote from: Anonymous
Firstly I'm going to ask for a source for this picture because it's not in Tasofro's page for AoCF
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on October 07, 2017, 05:16:04 am
I thought she'd be the least likely of the LoLK characters to show up too (maybe after Sagume). I wonder if she's going to be the only one we get.
I'm not sure we're getting anyone else from LoLK. I'm not expecting Sagume or Junko to get involved in a Gensokyo-only incident. Seiran, Ringo, and Clownpiece might be possible, but they don't have any real importance, and with Doremy already in as the "representative" their chances to get involved dropped significantly. Hecatia has higher chance than them because she's more important lore-wise, but still a big chance she's not in.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: gilde on October 07, 2017, 06:38:32 am
LIL' SHEEEEEEEEEEEPS
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shizzo on October 07, 2017, 07:48:24 am
Assuming this image is real....

Is it just me or that final boss' sillouete has horns?  I wonder if we'll have yet another fighter with an oni as the final boss, heh.

That circle looks kinda different from a normal shimenawa.  It looks kinda puffy.  Frankly, considering the name of the game, that makes me wonder if that's some kind of intricate, floating flower-crown-circle of sorts.  Or maybe smoke.

From what I can tell, too, it looks like she has long hair. 

Ofc, it could just be a fake though, but it's nice analyzing stuff.  Hehe.

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on October 07, 2017, 09:03:18 am
...Well, the level of the bosses itself could be high, if Doremy herself have to drag her ass out of bedworld. She's the type that's way stronger than she look. As for the newhus itself though...I would like to imagine a twin, seperate as birth, one born in the physical realm and one born in the dream world. 2 minds, 2 body, yet shares the same layered view from different angle. And this incident is a chance for them to meet eyes to eyes.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Helepolis on October 07, 2017, 10:29:20 am
Found on 4chan.  Real or fake?
(http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1507307999795.jpg)
What would you think?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 07, 2017, 10:39:45 am
What would you think?
Real stuff do pop out every once in a while there, even if rarely.  But then, it's probably fake due to the lack of sources.

On the side note, who wants to try datamining the new demo when it's out?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nyxnyx on October 07, 2017, 02:28:30 pm
I want to see how the dialogue between koishi and doremy turns out. The dream and the subconscious seem like a good chemistry. And who would be her team? She's from the dream world and has no canon connection with anyone except from sagume. If sagume's not here for the job, then who will?

The answer is always Yuyuko :D
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on October 07, 2017, 03:27:21 pm
Quote
And who would be her team? She's from the dream world and has no canon connection with anyone except from sagume.

Maybe Reisen ? She doens't have much interractions with the rest of the cast either, and LolK plot and all this.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on October 07, 2017, 03:29:11 pm
I want to see how the dialogue between koishi and doremy turns out. The dream and the subconscious seem like a good chemistry. And who would be her team? She's from the dream world and has no canon connection with anyone except from sagume. If sagume's not here for the job, then who will?

The answer is always Yuyuko :D
Do we have confirmation on how story mode would be like already?
If we do have fixed teams for story, it probably would be Sumireko. You know, because of the dream disease thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fulisha of Light on October 07, 2017, 07:03:46 pm
Found on 4chan.  Real or fake?
(http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1507307999795.jpg)

I can tell from a distance that's 100% fake.

Here's the silhouette: https://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=64690318
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: AndyPyro on October 07, 2017, 09:26:28 pm
I was expecting Doremy, but at the same time, not really.

To put it bluntly, half of me was like "What!?" and the other "Told you so!"

In the end, This only adds to just how hyped I am for AoCF
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nyxnyx on October 08, 2017, 03:57:09 am
Do we have confirmation on how story mode would be like already?
If we do have fixed teams for story, it probably would be Sumireko. You know, because of the dream disease thing.

Yeah i forgot about sumireko, but imo she seems great with mokou, camaraderie and all. I actually think they would have fixed couple for the story. Makes it much more interesting imo.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 08, 2017, 04:38:20 am
Funny seeing this game hyping up people when its predecessor got overwhelming negative reaction when it was announced...  I still remember over-the-top comments such as getting kicked in the balls and Christmas being ruined.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on October 08, 2017, 05:11:30 am
Funny seeing this game hyping up people when its predecessor got overwhelming negative reaction when it was announced...  I still remember over-the-top comments such as getting kicked in the balls and Christmas being ruined.
Wasn't that because HM was new and had a lot of issues? ULiL apparently fixes a lot of them, and AoCF look like it would be fixing up ULiL's issues, too.
...Maybe? Gotta get some of the fighting game guys here.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PurpleXCompleX on October 08, 2017, 11:39:54 am
Yeah i forgot about sumireko, but imo she seems great with mokou, camaraderie and all.
Yeah right, Sumireko and Mokou could be possible,
but also Sumireko and Kasen judging from the recent Curiosities of Lotus Asia chapters in the Strange Creators of Outer World Magazine.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on October 08, 2017, 02:56:18 pm
Yeah right, Sumireko and Mokou could be possible,
but also Sumireko and Kasen judging from the recent Curiosities of Lotus Asia chapters in the Strange Creators of Outer World Magazine.
Sumireko has been around for two years but she's already got a harem
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nyxnyx on October 08, 2017, 02:57:08 pm
I'm actually hpyed cuz of the story. Admittedly I'm no fighting games player, i played touhou ones just for the dialogues so I'm always glad when new games come out.

If kasen's taken then shinmyoumaru will be hardpressed to find anyone relevent to her i think? Since not-so-obvious oni and inchling can be a possible pair.

All in all, can't wait for the game!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: AndyPyro on October 09, 2017, 05:26:15 am
Has there ever been talk about maybe Medicine Melancholy being a possible candidate?

and no, it's not because she's one of my favorite characters, but rather I feel she would fit with the topic of possession.

And if Mystery Spots are to come into play once again, I feel she would have "The Island of Dolls" as hers.

As for her Urban Legend, I'm not exactly sure yet...  Maybe the Okiku Doll?

That, or I could wait for another PoFV-style game with Medicine in it.  Those are fun.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 09, 2017, 07:40:48 am
Koishi's Mary the doll could've been Medicine's urban legend.  Another reason why I think 14.5 screwed up its roster...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on October 09, 2017, 01:09:01 pm
sheep bullets. incredible.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: pokopo708 on October 11, 2017, 12:28:56 am
lol... the character from the fake silhouette/cover (Shiunkai Amane) was also featured in a fake "leak" screenshot of HSiFS's stage 4 (https://twitter.com/mem8120/status/865942148595597313) from right after the trial was released... Looks like Amane's the official fake screenshot Touhou :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 15, 2017, 01:59:48 am
Shouldn't the demo be out already?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on October 15, 2017, 08:45:52 am
Reitaisai had literally just started at the time of your post...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 15, 2017, 08:56:20 am
Thought it started yesterday...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Helepolis on October 15, 2017, 10:36:18 am
Thought it started yesterday...
Reitaisai is usually on a Sunday.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: jhun on October 15, 2017, 12:15:28 pm
It's night already and there still no news about the demo :(

Please give me some sources on the updates of the game today
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on October 15, 2017, 12:25:33 pm
There's been a few japanese streams floating around, including one by Iruka Unabara himself: https://www.youtube.com/embed/wzqlTTLsMFU

Changes I've noticed:
The Palanquin Ship is among the Demo stages. Its theme is 聖輦船空を往く(roughly, The Palanquin Ship Going Through The Sky)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 15, 2017, 01:58:18 pm
I'm waiting for someone to datamine the game, though I wouldn't be surprised if we find nothing like last time...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 20, 2017, 02:48:05 pm
Any news on datamining?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on October 20, 2017, 04:14:21 pm
Dunno, but they released a patch for the Autumn Reitaisai version today.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on October 22, 2017, 06:55:15 pm
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/353236663041785857/371727992730157056/unknown.png)

So, I guess, the .dll checker is back to cause more havoc? Because the damn thing refuses to start up. Help, please?

And yes, I temporarily removed that file. Didn't help.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: shockdude on October 27, 2017, 05:40:23 am
Looks like gameplay videos finally showed up on Youtube.
Apparently you can cancel any attack into a tag, even if the attack doesn't actually hit the opponent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1NZB1tIcQ8). I don't know if this was the case in the previous demo, but it looks like an intriguing mechanic.

Also people have come up with tag combos that carry an opponent from one corner to the opposite corner. Fun stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSEx_866Wro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27YGvj-DrnQ
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on October 30, 2017, 01:27:41 pm
Any news on datamining?
I conldn't find anything.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/353236663041785857/371727992730157056/unknown.png)

So, I guess, the .dll checker is back to cause more havoc? Because the damn thing refuses to start up. Help, please?

And yes, I temporarily removed that file. Didn't help.
Did you try with thcrap (needs AoFC to be at version 0.021)? I added some things in the thcrap support to avoid these problems.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: WishMakers on October 30, 2017, 03:15:33 pm
The fact that you can cancel any attack into a tag provides amazing options, especially for characters who don't have a lot of combo potential by themselves (Ichirin is a good example).
Creates some really fast-paced fights too.

Marisa + Reisen is a very interesting set of characters because Marisa's neutral special (the bomb) combos into Reisen's projectiles, giving a good mix-up for a combo starter.  In fact, these two characters alone can give an interesting edge to characters with not a whole lot of a projectile game (Mokou was interesting in the demo, but I'm looking squarely at Byakuren).

Personally I'm looking forward to whoever manages to make Koishi tag combos...I will have their utmost respect.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on October 30, 2017, 03:20:25 pm
So who's looking forward to buying this off of Steam sometime early next year? Unabara himself said that's what he wanted to make happen on ZUN's livestream earlier. (and something about ZUN also releasing his games through the platform as well)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Banbeucmas on October 30, 2017, 03:23:57 pm
Still, I still prefer a CD tho. Pretty sure it would be more sastisfying to enjoy Touhou rather than puschace Digitally
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: WishMakers on October 30, 2017, 04:46:52 pm
Personally I'm collecting all the physical copies but if it supports ZUN and Tasogare, I will totally buy a Steam release.  It's kinda crazy that it isn't just a joke anymore, it's a potential reality.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on October 31, 2017, 04:48:42 am
Does that Steam thread confirm this game will be released physically this year at winter Comiket?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on October 31, 2017, 07:01:16 am
Yeah, I heard they said that in the Japanese stream (but I can't confirm because I don't speak Japanese).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on November 01, 2017, 05:50:48 am
It was said at 39:00 of Nikenme #86. Of course the caveat is this is the plan, not that they definitely will.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on November 01, 2017, 06:06:34 am
They made a blog post about it last night, too. They are aiming for the first half of next year but they want it to have it available as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: WishMakers on November 04, 2017, 06:13:44 pm
The HSiFS Steam link is available now, so I'm curious how soon after release AoCF will follow...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on November 05, 2017, 12:02:02 am
They said something about early 2018 but that's literally just "anytime after C93" and I'm too lazy to go back and see if there was a tighter estimate.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on November 05, 2017, 02:49:11 am
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/lBoN_G18QUiy3l0omY43Mg.png)

for convenience. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/745880/__Hidden_Star_in_Four_Seasons/)

(sorry if i did something wrong, just trying to be helpful.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on November 06, 2017, 04:14:09 am
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/lBoN_G18QUiy3l0omY43Mg.png)

for convenience. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/745880/__Hidden_Star_in_Four_Seasons/)

(sorry if i did something wrong, just trying to be helpful.)

Errrrr....
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,21113.0.html

In which I posted the link to HSiFS at the end of page 2 (default board settings)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on November 09, 2017, 10:52:03 am
Errrrr....
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,21113.0.html

In which I posted the link to HSiFS at the end of page 2 (default board settings)

uuuuuuuuu.... i didn't see that, i'm sorry.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on November 13, 2017, 02:22:34 pm
With all the hype of Injustice 2 getting the Ninja Turtles and Tekken 7 getting Noctis from FFXV, let's pretend ZUN decides to jump into the guest character bandwagon and throw in a guest or two into Touhou 15.5, who do you want them to be?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Sophilia on November 13, 2017, 02:55:49 pm
Well, let's see.  It'd have to be someone who fits the mood and style of Touhou.  Someone that can be lighthearted and at ease in a world full of the eldritch drawn from the hearts and minds of men, and kick ass at the same time, while bringing with them top-flight music.

But they've already been lined up for a fighter, so we'll just have to make do with Mirai.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on November 13, 2017, 03:15:21 pm
Goku, natch.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PurpleXCompleX on November 13, 2017, 04:04:57 pm
With all the hype of Injustice 2 getting the Ninja Turtles and Tekken 7 getting Noctis from FFXV, let's pretend ZUN decides to jump into the guest character bandwagon and throw in a guest or two into Touhou 15.5, who do you want them to be?
No, just no. Crossovers ouf of the blue in official Touhou games would kind of weird me out, honestly.

What I actually would find Interesting would be maybe VIVIT from Seihou Project.
Thats the kind of Crossover / Guest Character I would be totally fine with.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shizzo on November 13, 2017, 04:20:43 pm
Wasn't that one blonde girl from PoDD also a guest character?  Ellen/Ellie something something, I think?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on November 13, 2017, 09:35:55 pm
With all the hype of Injustice 2 getting the Ninja Turtles and Tekken 7 getting Noctis from FFXV, let's pretend ZUN decides to jump into the guest character bandwagon and throw in a guest or two into Touhou 15.5, who do you want them to be?
You can't compare offical Touhou fighters to Tekken and Injustice - there's a borderline between the games where the plot is not relevant at all, and the games where the story plays an important role. All official Touhou games are being the parts of one setting, and everything, that happens in them, affects it. Here you can't put a character into the game just because you want him to be in it - you must have a plot-justified reason for this. This actually makes crossovers completely impossible.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on November 13, 2017, 10:07:03 pm
You can't compare offical Touhou fighters to Tekken and Injustice - there's a borderline between the games where the plot is not relevant at all, and the games where the story plays an important role. All official Touhou games are being the parts of one setting, and everything, that happens in them, affects it. Here you can't put a character into the game just because you want him to be in it - you must have a plot-justified reason for this. This actually makes crossovers completely impossible.
Well, yes, making an actually plot-relevant crossover is impossible, but they could put a character only for vs/arcade mode like they did with Meiling in IaMP.
Probably a waste of time and resources for a small company like Tasofro, but it isn't ineherently impossible.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on November 13, 2017, 10:16:05 pm
You can't compare offical Touhou fighters to Tekken and Injustice - there's a borderline between the games where the plot is not relevant at all, and the games where the story plays an important role. All official Touhou games are being the parts of one setting, and everything, that happens in them, affects it. Here you can't put a character into the game just because you want him to be in it - you must have a plot-justified reason for this. This actually makes crossovers completely impossible.
I said let's pretend.  It's a what if scenario, so please just have fun.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Jeremie on November 14, 2017, 03:01:50 am
Well, seeing how ZUN seems to have a liking to throw in some characters based on some vague reference or stuff like that, perhaps we can expect to see Sub-Zero and Scorpion to make it as guest characters because Cirno and Mokou exists. Bad jokes aside, even though it's from Touhou itself, seeing some PC-98 (and by that I don't mean Mima) characters show up again would be nice even though we know it won't happen.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on November 14, 2017, 05:46:49 am
Wasn't that one blonde girl from PoDD also a guest character?  Ellen/Ellie something something, I think?

Ellen "Fuwafuwa-atama" Aureus is originally from Takemoto Izumi's Hatarakimono series. And if her THwiki article (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ruukoto) is to be believed, Ruukoto is also originally from another Takemoto Izumi manga.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on November 14, 2017, 12:44:48 pm
Ellen "Fuwafuwa-atama" Aureus is originally from Takemoto Izumi's Hatarakimono series. And if her THwiki article (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ruukoto) is to be believed, Ruukoto is also originally from another Takemoto Izumi manga.
She's from the time before Gensokyo has solidified, though. It was a time when anything goes as long as ZUN likes it.

Although how much of a meltdown would there be if there's ever a Touhou x KanColle official crossover.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VierMill on November 22, 2017, 10:06:24 am
No, just no. Crossovers ouf of the blue in official Touhou games would kind of weird me out, honestly.

What I actually would find Interesting would be maybe VIVIT from Seihou Project.
Thats the kind of Crossover / Guest Character I would be totally fine with.

I heard ZUN is friendly with Ryukishi07, I would be surprised if we get a crossover from Higurashi no Naku Koro ni or Umineko no Naku Koro ni, but at least it would be more welcome than some random stuff.
Of course VIVIT would fit in just right, Yuuka was already playable at Seihou after all, and Reimu and Marisa were bosses.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on November 22, 2017, 11:17:51 am
While I would genuinely love to see VIVIT in a touhou game, aren't the people who made seihou disbanded? Or did I misunderstand something?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: myon on November 22, 2017, 02:49:23 pm
While I would genuinely love to see VIVIT in a touhou game, aren't the people who made seihou disbanded? Or did I misunderstand something?

Shunsatsu Sare Do?'s website seems to be still active, so I guess not. Last blog post was earlier this month aswell. But that could be the circle itself and not the members that were crucial to the development of Seihou.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 04, 2017, 09:27:20 am
Is December release confirmed?  I wanna see a new girl before the end of this year.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 04, 2017, 01:20:18 pm
...I thought the game wouldn't release until next year or something? Releasing this year would be repeating the Kokoro incident again.

Edit:...Yup, too early. Just check, and version 0.023 is releashed just recently, about 2 week ago.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 04, 2017, 01:30:35 pm
We talked just last page about how they plan to release for C93.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 04, 2017, 01:38:51 pm
Where the news? Also isn't that too early, again? Thought they plan it on early 2018
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on December 04, 2017, 01:50:02 pm
That was the Steam release. But ZUN confirmed during a special Touhou Station broadcast on Nicovideo last week that it'd be released at Comiket.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Quwanti on December 04, 2017, 04:00:58 pm
Melonbooks now has the cover art and a few screenshots of the game.

https://www.melonbooks.co.jp/detail/detail.php?product_id=297709&utm_source=twitter_171204&utm_medium=213001023368
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shadowlupus on December 04, 2017, 04:38:54 pm
Is that a Youkai Mountain? I wonder who is associated with the stage if that's the case...Momiji? Kanako?

EDIT: Wonder if the Cracked Floor at the Shrine and Outside World are still playable stages. If not, this could be Kasen's new stage.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 04, 2017, 05:36:47 pm
Kinda inclined to believe Momiji's gonna be in this game, tbh. Like, we'd get Momiji and she could have ninja gorillas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot) as her urban legend, and she get Nitori as her partner. I mean, wouldn't it be fitting, for two of the residents of the place that is practically another different country in Gensokyo to come around, both of them with completely foreign urban legends ? Seems like something that could work. Dunno what criteria is going to be followed when it comes to partners, but that seems okay-ish to me. Pretty looking stage btw.

But any rate, with this, we can kinda expect youkai mountain to potentially be of some relevance in the story (assuming that's youkai mountain, that is) or something ? The Urban Legends part of ULiL's incident seemed like it spanned all over Gensokyo, but we actually never got to see how it impacted Youkai Mountain overall (excluding the Kappas, cuz they ain't exactly the society type). It's reading a bit too much from just a single picture but, hey, new bits of info always mean speculation, that's how it is.

Also can't really tell anything with the silhouette with all the everything on top of it and- wait, is that a dragon ? That thing in blue over there ? Anyway, gotta wait for a "cleaner" silhouette before commenting on it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 04, 2017, 05:40:33 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/OXJ5WRP.jpg)
Clear look at the cover. Seems to be two characters this time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 04, 2017, 06:19:12 pm
The character in blue ... she seems to have some kind of wavy looking thing where her feets should be ... maybe she's a ghost or something similar ?! Usually, when you hear "possession", it's usually in stories or rumors related to ghosts or some kind of spiteful spirit. I can totally imagine the "perfect possession" thingy being related to a ghost. Kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnndaaaaa trying to make some kind of speculation on no solid ground whatsoever, but imo it would be VERY dumb if whoever is the big bad this time caused an incident (perfect possession) that would be key to her downfall (in the sense where the big bad is supposed to be someone who would require to be teamed on). I can totally see the "perfect possession" thingy NOT being what is going to be the threat this time (if I go by the assumption where there's gonna be two newhus). Like, something else is going on, and the perfect possession incident is not the most important thing.

Dunno what to say about that suspicious person in orange though, but I must say, she looks kinda edgy

Kinda gratuitous, but then again, it's that time of the year where speculations fall from the sky
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on December 04, 2017, 07:02:37 pm
The character in blue ... she seems to have some kind of wavy looking thing where her feets should be ... maybe she's a ghost or something similar ?!
MIMA CONFIRMED
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 04, 2017, 08:03:13 pm
There's a dragon on the cover.
ULiL's cover had outside world on it, and we ended visiting it :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 04, 2017, 08:09:13 pm
Momizi didn't even get ratings in SCoOW 4 or an appearance in any HM backgrounds. She's not gonna suddenly pop up as a playable character in this game. >_>

Those Reisen/Miko team and Kasen/Miko team screenshots give me life.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shizzo on December 04, 2017, 09:44:49 pm
How weird, the orange sillouette looks so much like Reimu to me.   Ribbon, puffy sleeves, medium-length skirt.  I think even the pose looks like something she'd do.

I wonder if the mastermind is trying to make an anti-Reimu or something!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Marron on December 04, 2017, 09:51:10 pm
Am I the only one that find the orange shadow strongly looks similar to Suika ? It reminds me of her horn(with her ribbon on it) and her bottle.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 04, 2017, 09:54:22 pm
Am I the only one that find the orange shadow strongly looks similar to Suika ? It reminds me of her horn(with her ribbon on it) and her bottle.
Come to think of it it does.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 04, 2017, 10:41:16 pm
HMMMMMM After an INTENSE session of eye-squinting, I've kinda decided that blue person might suddenly not be a ghost but just someone who is crossing her legs, midair, and that the wavy thing on her might just be her hair or some weird thing. Still can't think of anything for orange person tho, so I'll pretend that the previous thing about ghosts or evil spirits applies to her  :X Really have no idea of what to make about everything around her head ...

Anyway, for the story, if the "villain who requires to be teamed up" premise gets followed through for the full game, then it would be rather inappropriate that the person we're supposed to gang up against has a partner of her own. It might be possible that whoever is gonna be the final boss will be by their lonesome, while the player gets to have a team. Personally, I'm rather uncertain about the assumption where all the opponents you'll fight against in story mode are gonna have a team or something ... ESPECIALLY the one you're supposed to team up against. Rather, wouldn't it be more appropriate to expect the newhus (but not just them tho) to be the final bosses of different routes ? Dunno if the newhus are actually going to team up or not (like, there is no reason why any of them shouldn't be able to go with Reimu for example), but if they do, it probably should be in their own story mode route.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Maple on December 04, 2017, 10:45:18 pm
Cutout of the silhouettes by @sou_swampert (https://twitter.com/sou_swampert/status/937721763273699328)

Quote
Blue, left/bottom(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQN0zQMVQAEubS4.jpg)
Orange, right/up(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQN00aDUIAUfWra.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Alrysc on December 05, 2017, 12:12:50 am
If it's a villain that needs to be teamed up against to defeat, then what if those two characters are actually the same person?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Tiamat on December 05, 2017, 12:20:11 am
Suika and Yuugi (in a sake-drinking sitting position), maybe?

Though I don't think Suika would be used as a final boss a second time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 05, 2017, 01:10:59 am
If it's a villain that needs to be teamed up against to defeat, then what if those two characters are actually the same person?
Then my wish for a character with split personality may come true!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on December 05, 2017, 03:35:03 am
So this went under the radar a bit but
(https://i.imgur.com/dSO6vJQ.jpg)

Steam version will be released on January 5th.

Comiket version and Steam version can cross-play with each other
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Clarste on December 05, 2017, 03:54:42 am
Is that a Youkai Mountain? I wonder who is associated with the stage if that's the case...Momiji? Kanako?

EDIT: Wonder if the Cracked Floor at the Shrine and Outside World are still playable stages. If not, this could be Kasen's new stage.

My guess is that the Cracked Shrine is no longer a stage and Youkai Mountain is Kasen's stage. You'll note that Doremy is fighting Kasen there.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on December 05, 2017, 06:07:58 am
How weird, the orange sillouette looks so much like Reimu to me.   Ribbon, puffy sleeves, medium-length skirt.  I think even the pose looks like something she'd do.

I wonder if the mastermind is trying to make an anti-Reimu or something!

If you remember the Reimu-with-a-ghost-tail image I linked to in a previous post, that might be what the above silhouette is also referencing.
That said, I wonder what species will the newhu be?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 05, 2017, 07:03:34 am
Yeah, the top one looks an awful lot like Reimu to me, and the bottom looks a lot like Marisa now that I can see it by itself. Actually, the bottom one also kind of looks like Toyohime....

I thought for some reason we were only getting a roster of 19 this time around. If there are indeed two new bosses, either I got my information wrong or there's going to be some weird team shenanigans going on.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 05, 2017, 07:52:07 am
Hm...one of them being ghost would make so much sense for me though, since I does speculate earlier that whoever the newhus is, one of them must be able to control or affect spirits of anykind since only Miko and Reimu seems to know that someone is behind this.

Also high on the chance that the newhus are twin, but that easier to guess. 
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 05, 2017, 09:31:05 am
I thought for some reason we were only getting a roster of 19 this time around. If there are indeed two new bosses, either I got my information wrong or there's going to be some weird team shenanigans going on.
Where did you get the idea it would be more just because there are two bosses there, though? You're thinking about a few pages back when the character select revealed there were 19, but there are four spots for new characters so this doesn't change anything.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 05, 2017, 09:45:36 am
I'm not assuming there will be more. But if we get 19 characters and there are two incident causers, then that means there will be 17 incident resolvers. In a game with a partner system.

At first I assumed that there would be 1 final boss, leaving 9 teams for story mode. But if there are indeed 2 final bosses (or a final boss and a penultimate boss or whatever), then that means.... 8 teams of 2 and a team of 1? Interchangeable teams for story mode? 3 new characters, with one being the penultimate and 2 being the final bosses? Or are we actually getting more than 19? That's where I was going with that.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on December 05, 2017, 09:48:07 am
The two silhouettes might be the same character, that can form a team by herself, and in versus mode, you may be able to chose between her two " forms " to chose which one to use as a partner, maybe.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 05, 2017, 09:56:57 am
Maybe there are 2 different teams for each character? One with the character as master and a second one as slave.
Like, Reimu's story has Marisa as slave, Marisa's story has Byakuren as slave, Byakuren's has Miko, Etc etc. So the uneven number shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 05, 2017, 11:33:02 am
The two silhouettes might be the same character, that can form a team by herself, and in versus mode, you may be able to chose between her two " forms " to chose which one to use as a partner, maybe.
Like I said, a character with split personality fits this bill well.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 05, 2017, 01:19:48 pm
Am I the only one that find the orange shadow strongly looks similar to Suika ? It reminds me of her horn(with her ribbon on it) and her bottle.

I immediatly thought about Suika too.
Probably just a coincidence, I guess.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 05, 2017, 02:12:54 pm
Has there been a word lost about further Steam Integration?

As in, does it use Steam's "Join game/Invite to game" function ranging from trading cards. I recall ZUN saying that Tasofro is a wildcard when it comes to that, afterall.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: VierMill on December 05, 2017, 04:45:27 pm
Those silhouette... their colors... I can't believe Shingyoku is coming back before Mima does!
Jokes aside, it will surely just be new characters, so there's nothing but wait left to know how are they like...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: WishMakers on December 05, 2017, 05:21:28 pm
Quote
Steam version will be released on January 5th.

Comiket version and Steam version can cross-play with each other

Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about.
That doesn't leave too much to support the improved netcode possibility, but it's definitely promising.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on December 05, 2017, 08:30:08 pm
Steam Store page is now live!
http://store.steampowered.com/app/716710/_Antinomy_of_Common_Flowers/ (http://store.steampowered.com/app/716710/_Antinomy_of_Common_Flowers/)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: teefa85 on December 05, 2017, 08:48:23 pm
Nice!  I have a gift card that I got for Christmas (I always buy myself a present from my cats to me so I know what it is) and that'll cover more than half the cost of both games.  So January 5th is perfect timing for this!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 06, 2017, 07:19:35 am
There's a dragon on the cover.
ULiL's cover had outside world on it, and we ended visiting it :V
I take this back. Apparently it's actually a baku (saw it retweeted by drake), which would refer to Doremy.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 06, 2017, 10:27:13 am
It is just speculation based on the silhouette pattern and context of the game (being related to dream souls, Doremy being included, etc), but I think it's a pretty reasonable guess to think baku will be important. It isn't necessarily that the baku would have to be just Doremy, though!

EDIT: reworded, was confusing
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 06, 2017, 11:52:45 am
I take this back. Apparently it's actually a baku (saw it retweeted by drake), which would refer to Doremy.
I don't see how it resembles a baku.  Looks like two characters to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 7TC7 on December 06, 2017, 12:07:45 pm
We aren't talking about the silhouettes but the thing overlayed on them, right? Because yes, thats totally a painting of a Baku. Most of them don't have these japanese-dragon-like antlers, but some paintings sure do.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 06, 2017, 12:10:11 pm
Yes, talking about the white lineart mostly visible on the left character. See here:
https://twitter.com/samekamanew/status/937931862944518144
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 06, 2017, 02:11:20 pm
Yes, talking about the white lineart mostly visible on the left character. See here:
https://twitter.com/samekamanew/status/937931862944518144
Not seeing resemblances to a baku.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 06, 2017, 02:17:55 pm
Not the silhouette itself. The pattern on top.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on December 06, 2017, 02:51:08 pm
Not seeing resemblances to a baku.
If this isn't a baku I don't know what it is
(https://i.imgur.com/Z4xeJi7.png)
You can clearly see its face
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Poison Cat on December 06, 2017, 07:41:15 pm
The blue silhouette can be a tengu. It seems to have a hat like Aya and Momiji.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Poison Cat on December 07, 2017, 08:41:03 am
(http://i65.tinypic.com/24wymmg.jpg)

But anyways, it might be something else. If it were a tengu, it wouldn't match the story pretty much.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 07, 2017, 10:01:01 am
4chan may be onto something here:
https://www.japanpowered.com/folklore-and-urban-legends/legend-of-the-twin-baku
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 07, 2017, 12:00:02 pm
That's some guy's short story that won a contest, it isn't folklore.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 07, 2017, 12:16:05 pm
While that makes its relevance less likely, I wouldn't discount it entirely. Given The Monkey's Paw appearing in ULiL.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 07, 2017, 11:48:07 pm
No I mean it's literally some reader-submitted thing. It says right at the start of the article, and that blurb is the whole story. It's basically Shinto fanfiction. The Monkey's Paw is a century old and is famous.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on December 08, 2017, 10:25:11 am
Wasn't Ichirin's Hasshaku-sama also a relatively recent Japanese creepypasta?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: WishMakers on December 08, 2017, 08:53:24 pm
Was looking through AoCF's Steam page, and got curious about something...

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/xsk5t0mv5wxo8j6/aocf%20question.PNG?dl=1)

"Online Multi-Player"
Does this imply using Steam's netcode and/or inviting friends to a game as an option, or is it just a general marker?
Want to be sure so I don't set my expectations for improved netcode too high.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 09, 2017, 12:02:55 am
Was looking through AoCF's Steam page, and got curious about something...

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/xsk5t0mv5wxo8j6/aocf%20question.PNG?dl=1)

"Online Multi-Player"
Does this imply using Steam's netcode and/or inviting friends to a game as an option, or is it just a general marker?
Want to be sure so I don't set my expectations for improved netcode too high.
Probably no, as it has been stated that the steam and comiket versions will be interplayable.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: WishMakers on December 09, 2017, 01:33:43 am
Quote
Probably no, as it has been stated that the steam and comiket versions will be interplayable.

That's why I thought it could be one of several options to connect to a game, but maybe not.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 09, 2017, 02:03:12 am
Wasn't Ichirin's Hasshaku-sama also a relatively recent Japanese creepypasta?
A popular and widespread creepypasta, on par with Slenderman overseas, something ZUN would know about. But the Twin Baku story, which is a single story written by a westerner with very little popularity, is highly unlikely to be something he would enough to base the fucking final bosses on.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 09, 2017, 01:25:33 pm
Also it's only involving the dream part of the incident, not the soul part or possession part. Beside, the story itself doesn't look like it would jive with either the urban legend aspect, or even Touhou aspect, as it's a morality tale, IMO.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 09, 2017, 02:33:25 pm
guys, what are the chances of junko being playable? i need mommy to be in the game real bad. :'(
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on December 09, 2017, 04:15:09 pm
What are the odds Junko decides to come to Gensokyo and engage in fights with its residents-

oh wait the LoLK Extra ending hinted that
(to be serious though I don't think it's very likely)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 09, 2017, 04:52:18 pm
she came to gensokyo in one of the mangas, so... ;)

ugh, imagine if hecatia was also playable and they'll pair up together, just like they did in LoLK. what a missed opportunity...

if doremy is actually gonna be the only LoLK character in the game, i'll be pissed. LoLK has by far the best cast of characters, why not fuckin' use them?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 09, 2017, 11:42:19 pm
she came to gensokyo in one of the mangas, so... ;)

ugh, imagine if hecatia was also playable and they'll pair up together, just like they did in LoLK. what a missed opportunity...

if doremy is actually gonna be the only LoLK character in the game, i'll be pissed. LoLK has by far the best cast of characters, why not fuckin' use them?

I feel like not having Hecatia pair up with one of her copies would be a bigger missed opportunity
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on December 10, 2017, 08:09:10 am
junko
Hecatia
You forgot about the main theme of the 15.5 incident. I think, the probability of such a powerful beings like Junko and Hecatia being affected by the Perfect Possession is extremely low. Same with the residents of the Lunar Capital.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on December 10, 2017, 08:15:06 am
she came to gensokyo in one of the mangas, so... ;)

ugh, imagine if hecatia was also playable and they'll pair up together, just like they did in LoLK. what a missed opportunity...

if doremy is actually gonna be the only LoLK character in the game, i'll be pissed. LoLK has by far the best cast of characters, why not fuckin' use them?
Junko came to Gensokyo? I only remember her doing that in one of LoLK's endings.

Also I think you should be prepared to be pissed.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on December 10, 2017, 08:59:57 am
if doremy is actually gonna be the only LoLK character in the game, i'll be pissed. LoLK has by far the best cast of characters, why not fuckin' use them?

If anyone wants another LoLK representatives appear in AoCF, Sagume is the possible candidate to fill the roster. Junko is out of question because she is the one and only final boss in main games who never got a chance to sit down and talk to incident resolvers for 5 minutes or so, thanks to her vengeful nature.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on December 10, 2017, 03:34:30 pm
Sagume is the possible candidate to fill the roster
Actually, lunarians are the last ones, who will help resolving Gensokyo's problems.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: 32th System on December 10, 2017, 08:40:27 pm
Touhou 15.5 is the first Touhou game to ever use a newer version of DirectX than 9. More specifically, DirectX11. I hope that with the upcoming Wine 3.0 you will still be able to run Touhou 15.5 on Linux, since it is the first version of Wine with out of the box DirectX11 support.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 11, 2017, 12:46:15 am
okay, y'all are making me doubt queen J is gonna be in the game. ugh. it's annoying how she's gonna be the ONLY stage 6 boss that isn't in a fighter... ZUN needs to get it together.  :wat:
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on December 11, 2017, 12:54:29 am
okay, y'all are making me doubt queen J is gonna be in the game. ugh. it's annoying how she's gonna be the ONLY stage 6 boss that isn't in a fighter... ZUN needs to get it together.  :wat:

Eirin, Kaguya and Kanako said hi.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 11, 2017, 01:00:55 am
Eirin, Kaguya and Kanako said hi.

and i say bye because kanako is in 12.3, eirin isn't the real final boss of IN, and kaguya was gonna be in 12.3 along with mokou (who made it into a fighter, which means kaguya will soon follow) so neither of them really count!

junko's the one that's truly getting snubbed here. :'(
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 11, 2017, 01:50:17 am
Calm down, 16.5 probs will start a new trilogy of fighters, and anyway remember that the UFO group didn't appear in 12.3.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: WishMakers on December 11, 2017, 01:57:53 am
Quote
junko's the one that's truly getting snubbed here. :'(

Think about the many people that want their favorite character in a fighter but haven't had it.  Think about the people who want PC-98 to return.
Trust me, Junko is not the first character that hasn't made her appearance in a fighter, nor is she the last.  I think you set your expectations too high.

Quote
Touhou 15.5 is the first Touhou game to ever use a newer version of DirectX than 9. More specifically, DirectX11. I hope that with the upcoming Wine 3.0 you will still be able to run Touhou 15.5 on Linux, since it is the first version of Wine with out of the box DirectX11 support.

I would think you would be able to, but any Touhou using newer than DX9 is news to me.  I'm surprised Wine didn't support DX11 until now.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 11, 2017, 09:50:56 am
(Eiki doesn't count as a final boss). It actually kind of makes sense that ZUN wouldn't use Junko much after her debut. Characters like Remilia and Yuyuko are whimsical enough to get involved in stuff that has nothing to do with them, and all the other final bosses only show up in situations that directly pertain to them (or when their assets are reused from the previous game). Junko, like Eiki, doesn't really have a reason to get involved in any of Gensokyo's politics, and with her one track, Chang'e murdering mindset she doesn't seem like the type to just do stuff for the sake of doing it. Same goes for Sagume. If anyone else from LoLK shows up I'd expect it to be Hecatia, who just plays around, or Clownpiece, who is now a Gensokyo resident. If anyone from LoLK shows up.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 11, 2017, 12:26:30 pm
Um, yes Eiki does. She is the last opponent you face in every scenario but her own, and her battle serves as the climax for the game.  ???
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on December 11, 2017, 02:44:34 pm
I often see people ask about Steam netplay support, but... would that change anything?
Sure, the Shift+Tab->Right click->play with him is more convenient than google for a tuto->select "enable UPnP"->send IP, but I read many people talking about the bad Tasofro netcode, how sokuroll need to happen for the HM series, etc. And I read all the hype about potential Steam netplay support because it's on Steam. So I guess people people are hyped because they think Steam netplay support means better networking code. But does Steam netplay support really means better networking code? It's not like a Steam employee will join the Tasofro team and write the netcode for them. They provide an API (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/multiplayer/networking), and the developers send and receive bytes using this API. The current Tasofro netcode uses a direct connection between the computers, and the Steam API does the same, it won't magically make the ping disappear. The Steam API doesn't control the game engine, it won't add any rollback. The only thing I can see it do is setting the QoS byte in the IP packet. And maybe recover lost packets, but recovering lost packets is usually something you don't want to do in a real-time game.

Am I wrong? If just using the Steam Networking API is such a life saver, and the game doesn't use it, I could think about adding it in thcrap.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 11, 2017, 03:48:13 pm
As much I want Junko to be in the game, I sort of have accepted the fact that she has been forgotten completely. Outside of few "Hey, that game just happened" group shot in the mangas, she hasn't appeared in anything. Heck, she didn't have anything written about her in AFiEU. Only others characters who didn't appear in it from recent games were Seija and Sumireko, and both of them has had time to be in the spotlight outside of their debut games.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 11, 2017, 04:32:24 pm
I often see people ask about Steam netplay support, but... would that change anything?
Sure, the Shift+Tab->Right click->play with him is more convenient than google for a tuto->select "enable UPnP"->send IP, but I read many people talking about the bad Tasofro netcode, how sokuroll need to happen for the HM series, etc. And I read all the hype about potential Steam netplay support because it's on Steam. So I guess people people are hyped because they think Steam netplay support means better networking code. But does Steam netplay support really means better networking code? It's not like a Steam employee will join the Tasofro team and write the netcode for them. They provide an API (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/multiplayer/networking), and the developers send and receive bytes using this API. The current Tasofro netcode uses a direct connection between the computers, and the Steam API does the same, it won't magically make the ping disappear. The Steam API doesn't control the game engine, it won't add any rollback. The only thing I can see it do is setting the QoS byte in the IP packet. And maybe recover lost packets, but recovering lost packets is usually something you don't want to do in a real-time game.

Am I wrong? If just using the Steam Networking API is such a life saver, and the game doesn't use it, I could think about adding it in thcrap.
Probably won't use the steam api. the comiket and steam versions were said by tasofro to be identical and interplayable, and i dunno if steam api works  with non-steam games.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: WishMakers on December 11, 2017, 04:41:47 pm
I often see people ask about Steam netplay support, but... would that change anything?
Sure, the Shift+Tab->Right click->play with him is more convenient than google for a tuto->select "enable UPnP"->send IP, but I read many people talking about the bad Tasofro netcode, how sokuroll need to happen for the HM series, etc. And I read all the hype about potential Steam netplay support because it's on Steam. So I guess people people are hyped because they think Steam netplay support means better networking code. But does Steam netplay support really means better networking code? It's not like a Steam employee will join the Tasofro team and write the netcode for them. They provide an API (https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/multiplayer/networking), and the developers send and receive bytes using this API. The current Tasofro netcode uses a direct connection between the computers, and the Steam API does the same, it won't magically make the ping disappear. The Steam API doesn't control the game engine, it won't add any rollback. The only thing I can see it do is setting the QoS byte in the IP packet. And maybe recover lost packets, but recovering lost packets is usually something you don't want to do in a real-time game.

Am I wrong? If just using the Steam Networking API is such a life saver, and the game doesn't use it, I could think about adding it in thcrap.

Something about HM and ULiL's netcode is just far worse than other games I've played.  I haven't played Soku online much at all so I personally don't recall how much better it is/was.  I'm not 100% that Steam API would fix it, but if it was implemented partially or at least tested (and maybe compared to how the old Tasofro engine was), in theory I think it could be used to improve the netcode at least a little bit.  I'm not sure I expect them to put in that effort, I'm really just hoping it's better than ULiL was, because having better connectivity would make it a lot more accessible.  I recall playing with a friend that was within 10 miles of me and the game running at around 5 fps, and I just don't want to see that kind of bad connection again (I've played PoFV recently with Adonis2 and even THAT was better)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 11, 2017, 04:56:49 pm
As much I want Junko to be in the game, I sort of have accepted the fact that she has been forgotten completely. Outside of few "Hey, that game just happened" group shot in the mangas, she hasn't appeared in anything. Heck, she didn't have anything written about her in AFiEU. Only others characters who didn't appear in it from recent games were Seija and Sumireko, and both of them has had time to be in the spotlight outside of their debut games.

ugh, i need to accept the fact too or else i'll just set myself up for unnecessary disappointment. but maybe the reason that junko hasn't appeared anywhere is because she's making a comeback in this game.  :blush:

honestly tho, i'm hella excited for this game. like, i'm literally counting down the days, the wait is starting to get to me. i've had two dreams about this game so far. 14.5 was AMAZING af, so i can tell that 15.5 is gonna follow in it's footsteps, quality wise. the newer fighters are better than the old ones, IMO. hopeless masquerade gets a lot of flack, but i don't think it's deserved. it's the very first game they made with the aerial engine, so obvious the game won't be perfect... but with urban legend in limbo, they looked at their mistakes from HM and fixed all of them and genuinely made a great game this time. ULiL is my second favorite touhou game with LoLK being the first. so yeah, while ULiL is amazing, i can admit HM isn't perfect, but it's sort of understandable. but overall, the newer fighters are way more enjoyable to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on December 11, 2017, 08:16:37 pm
I recall playing with a friend that was within 10 miles of me and the game running at around 5 fps, and I just don't want to see that kind of bad connection again (I've played PoFV recently with Adonis2 and even THAT was better)

It's because it's devlopped to be played by Japanese playing in Japan with other Japanese. So, the server is in Japan and you play from North America (or wherever you live), the lag is gonna be insane. As much as using Steam's API could alleviate this a bit, I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on December 11, 2017, 10:28:53 pm
It's because it's devlopped to be played by Japanese playing in Japan with other Japanese. So, the server is in Japan and you play from North America (or wherever you live), the lag is gonna be insane. As much as using Steam's API could alleviate this a bit, I don't see it happening.
AFAIK, servers aren't in Japan. There aren't any servers (except for updates check, and maybe for the IP given with "Use UPnP"). Well... actually, the server is the computer of one of the 2 players: the one who selected "Create battle server" in the "VS Network" menu. That's why, when you don't use "Use UPnP", you need to setup port forwarding on your router.

And yeah, I know Steam netplay isn't likely to be built into the game, I was thinking about hacking it into the game. But I feel like it wouldn't change anything. I just don't see how it could change anything, the netcode behind will be the same.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 12, 2017, 12:33:53 am
I agree. I'm not sure where the assumption came from; I think people just heard Steam has a multiplayer networking API and assume this means magic different netplay implementation.

If anything the lobby/matchmaking capability would be something actually useful.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on December 12, 2017, 02:44:27 am
So, any speculation on who else might be appearing in AoCF (aside from the ULiL cast, Doremy Sweet and the 2 newhus)?

In my own guess, I decided to narrow down the candidates by factoring in these points (characters that don't meet either one of these criteria are eliminated):
1. Not playable in any previous fighters except ULiL. This eliminates Cirno, Meiling, Patchouli, Sakuya, Remilia, Alice, Youmu, Yuyuko, Yukari, Suika, Iku, Tenshi, Momiji, Aya,, Sanae, Kanako, Suwako and Utsuho.
2. Character has something to do with dreams, possession and/or being ghostly. I don't consider flowers because the "flower" in "Antinomy of Common Flowers" might be metaphorical. This eliminates Rumia, Flandre, Letty, Chen, Ran, Wriggle, Mystia, Keine, Kaguya, Shizuha, Minoriko, Hina, Yamame, Kisume, Parsee, Yuugi, Satori, Kogasa, Nazrin, Shou, Kyouko, Yoshika, Seiga, Wakasagihime, Kagerou, Benben, Yatsuhashi, Seija, Seiran, Ringo, Clownpiece, Sunny, Luna, Star, Akyuu, Tokiko and Rinnosuke.
3. Character is the kind that might be interested in the events of AoCF. This eliminates the Prismrivers, Sagume, Junko, Hecatia, Rei'Sen, Yorihime and Toyohime, but it also puts Kaguya back on the list of possible characters.
4. Character's being present in AoCF should be logical. This eliminates Renko and Maribel.

PC-98 2hus are NOT eliminated, but since ZUN is pretty much ignoring PC-98 by this point, I'll have to assume that they are...

And so, the only characters not eliminated by this point are (in order of debut appearance): Ran, Eirin, Kaguya, Rin, Tojiko and Kosuzu. That's not a lot of candidates, is it?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on December 12, 2017, 03:42:17 am
Momiji has never been playable in a fighting game. If she would, she would probably have a portrait, yet, she still doesn't.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 12, 2017, 04:26:32 am
I have some problems with the methods of selection, Lt.

Isn't part of the incident that people are being possessed against against their own will? I don't think having interest in the incident will be a factor in if a character shows up or not, they probably won't have any choice in the matter.

Narrowing down characters based on theme falls apart when you remember that ULIL did nothing like that. It was about the occult and urban legends, but none of the new playable characters there other than Sumireko had any thematic ties to that outside of their occult balls.

HM was like this too. It was themed around religion and, i guess emotions? But it included a couple of characters without much relationship to religion, let alone emotions, like Nitori (who's only relationship with religion is being an atheist, which is a very minor part of her character), Mamizou (Who's only there because she was in 10D, and she hangs out with the Buddhists). Plus it strangely left out the Moriyas, despite them being the most obvious choice for a religious themed game. Koishi is a parallel to Kokoro, and fits the emotion themes, so she kinda fits in. A little.

Reisen was playable in a previous fighter, but yet she showed up in ULIL. Why are you assuming it will be different here? Also, Kanako wasn't playable in a fighter, she was just a spellcard.

Just my 0.02. I don't think the second returning character will be based on anything but if ZUN/Twilight Frontier thinks their inclusion would be cool. The only tend i notice in the choice of characters in the fighting games lately, is that they tend to be characters that have showed up in games recently, if not necessarily introduced there. Reisen was just in LOLK before the PS4 version of ULIL. Other then that, it's pretty much a gamble.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 12, 2017, 12:24:13 pm
i have a feeling it might be hatate.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 12, 2017, 01:18:38 pm
Quote from: ZUN
Actually I just forgot about Hatate

(I was also being sarcastic about Eiki not being a final boss.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 12, 2017, 01:34:11 pm
then maybe kaguya? or somebody totally new like iku... nue is also likely.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 12, 2017, 01:44:15 pm
'Tater is in Aya's HSiFS ending, so who knows! (It's still not likely.)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 12, 2017, 02:02:45 pm
omg wait, maybe eiki appearing isn’t that much of a stretch, because the description of the game says the two final bosses joined forces to become unstoppable... it also says the game is gonna have a “bittersweet story” about them (the final bosses), so maybe eiki is gonna wanna, like, judge them or smth?

the mystery playable character could be anyone, tbh... i wish they would just announce who it’s gonna be already. when does twilight frontier usually announce stuff like this? i’m assuming we’re gonna find out, like, a week before the game comes out maybe?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 12, 2017, 04:23:11 pm
omg wait, maybe eiki appearing isn’t that much of a stretch, because the description of the game says the two final bosses joined forces to become unstoppable... it also says the game is gonna have a “bittersweet story” about them (the final bosses), so maybe eiki is gonna wanna, like, judge them or smth?


Are you sure? My take on the plot premise is that the "strongest two" aren't the final bosses, but the teams trying to stop them since nobody alone could defeat the final boss/bosses (according to the villagers' rumors). Also that the "bittersweet story" is about the teams mistakenly thinking they are themselves the strongest two, not the final bosses.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 12, 2017, 05:58:33 pm
I highly suspect Kaguya might be playable, as pairing her with Mokou is common sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Serela on December 12, 2017, 06:23:24 pm
But Kaguya and Mokou have a bitter rivalry; them pairing up together seems like... the opposite of sense XD
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on December 12, 2017, 06:30:06 pm
As said, the pairing doens't seem to be the character's choice : they may be forced to do it.

I just wanna speculate that the " an opponent who can't be defeated alone " means that the new character behind this whole possesion thing will possess one of the character we play, and therefore, if you were alone against her, it would just possess you and you wouldn't be able to do anything.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 12, 2017, 06:30:58 pm
But Kaguya and Mokou have a bitter rivalry; them pairing up together seems like... the opposite of sense XD
Well, look at the game's title :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on December 12, 2017, 07:27:08 pm
'Tater is in Aya's HSiFS ending, so who knows! (It's still not likely.)
You know, it would still be neat if Hater-te got into AoCF to compliment Aya being in the older generation of 2hu fighters.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 12, 2017, 08:38:23 pm
Mokou is already paired up with Reimu, judging from Reisen's ULIL story mode. Why does almost everyone think they will be paired up with anyone else when that's really obvious?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: martelefort on December 12, 2017, 08:46:42 pm
The posession may not be permanent, and it may switch to other characters
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: OrbOrigin on December 12, 2017, 10:41:42 pm
Why does almost everyone think they will be paired up with anyone else when that's really obvious?

That simply because apparently the culprit(s) seemingly taking the advantage during the wake of ULiL and LoLK. If that happens to Reimu and Mokou, then it's possible the same thing also happens to other participants as well. So they don't have choices but forced to make a team-up during this event.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 13, 2017, 12:20:39 am
That simply because apparently the culprit(s) seemingly taking the advantage during the wake of ULiL and LoLK. If that happens to Reimu and Mokou, then it's possible the same thing also happens to other participants as well. So they don't have choices but forced to make a team-up during this event.

I wasn't saying that no one else was being possessed, only that Reimu and Mokou won't be paired up with anyone else other than each other. A lot of people here and elsewhere have speculated on who will be paired up with who, often pegging Reimu and Mokou as being with other people (Like Kaguya with the later, as shown above), when it is literally shown in canon that they're stuck with each other. I'm honestly not sure why so many people are missing something that's clearly shown multiple times.

The posession may not be permanent, and it may switch to other characters

That defeats the purpose of predicting who'll be stuck with who, if it can change at the drop of the hat.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 13, 2017, 03:19:06 am
Are you sure? My take on the plot premise is that the "strongest two" aren't the final bosses, but the teams trying to stop them since nobody alone could defeat the final boss/bosses (according to the villagers' rumors). Also that the "bittersweet story" is about the teams mistakenly thinking they are themselves the strongest two, not the final bosses.

my take is that the two silhouettes on the cover are the strongest two that teamed up, and both of them are THE final boss (as a pair, ofc). the main characters (reimu, marisa, miko, etc) are teaming up because you can't beat the pair by yourself. the "perfect possessions" are an urban legend that's manifesting into a real form, much like the other urban legends in gensokyo after the occult incident.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 13, 2017, 03:57:55 am
Judging from how it look though, "the strongest pair" is also an Urban Legend too, if it's spread by rumor and know everyone used it. I suspect that is something the girls do, a Gensokyo-made one to counteract the final boss like the moon in IN.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 13, 2017, 04:17:09 am
Personally, I'd guess that the perfect possession thing is going to be some kind of side effect or something, and that the final boss will have an entirely different theme and motivation for doing what they do. Nearly every game since UFO has pulled that kind of bait and switch, at least to some degree. Advertising one thing in the demo and then it being completely different in the full game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shizzo on December 13, 2017, 07:11:35 am
Personally, I'd guess that the perfect possession thing is going to be some kind of side effect or something, and that the final boss will have an entirely different theme and motivation for doing what they do. Nearly every game since UFO has pulled that kind of bait and switch, at least to some degree. Advertising one thing in the demo and then it being completely different in the full game.

Pretty much this.  I bet her power'll be something weird-that-makes-a-bit-of-sense like "Manipulation of Names" or something. 
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RedJewelBox on December 13, 2017, 07:29:34 am
https://imgur.com/a/9RjLQ

Pointless silhouette extrapolation/speculation.
Idk whats going on with their outfits, tbh, especially orange girl.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 13, 2017, 09:15:14 am
Hmm, after doing a wee bit of thinking, I got a few ideas regarding some stuff that may have some relation with this time's "perfect possession" incident :

Anyway, going by the series general soul-related lore : from what I can tell, the body is basically the container of the soul, while the soul is like the thing where all the memories, experiences, knowledge and all such things pertaining to defining the individual is located. But the soul seems to play one more role, one where it shapes the body according to what it is : say Futo and Miko for example : in order to become what they currently are, they transfered their souls into some other vessels : in doing so, the vessels inside of which they transferred their souls somehow became their bodies ; take Mokou too for example : while her fighting style involves her taking severe damage and even occasionaly completely destroying her body, she will not only "resurrect" in her exact, same appearance, but will also somehow still remember past stuff, even though her brain, which is usually supposed to be the thing in which memories are stored, gets fried every single time she self destructs. No question about her clothes, please.

So, regarding the way the perfect possession incident present itself, in light of the previous points I mentionned, imo it seems pretty plausible to say that the girls turning into other girls when performing the "perfect possession" thingy might quite possibly have very much to do with their soul switching (which was already fairly obvious tbh). But to begin with, it's not like moving the soul around is obvious though, else a massive amount of people who are interested in immortality would've already went the Futo & Miko route : there's no way regular people's souls (or at the very least people who are not familiar with the way to do so) can be normaly able to move their soul around possessing people.

Point is, I believe it is quite possible that the "perfect possession" part of the incident might actually have something to do with souls getting dislocated or something around these lines ; an incident where other people's souls can get dislocated.

By any means, when it comes to people who somehow end up outside their bodies for no clear and apparent reason, I believe the first urban legend that comes to mind ought to be the Out of Body Experience ones.  If it's just the rampant spread of the ability to use perfect possession, I can kinda see it as a consequence of the Out of Body Experience being misused or something around these lines. There's no telling what the actual responsible for the mess's intentions and motivations may be, though  :X
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 13, 2017, 04:57:57 pm
Well, the thing with soul reshaping body is obvious, as that is shown when Reimu suddenly feel sore all over her body because Mokou misused it, IIRC. I also think it's also related with "Butterfly Dream", when one person's dream is another reality, so the constant shift in body is also one deciding to sleep as her partner.

...If that were true though, then essentially the soul have a connection strong enough to "become one", in a sense. And if you're also combining the idea of body reshaping...what happen to the other body when all they need is one? Or perhap...that both of them losed their body at the same times in the dream word, to perhap the culprit?

Well, just my 0.02$. Need the game to actually come out to know for sure.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 14, 2017, 04:03:46 am
Go read the Sumireko transfer mini-arc in WaHH (ch. 29, 35), and maybe her AFiEU article as a bonus. This plus ULiL Extra connects the two incidents through dream souls, which is also why it's unsurprising that Doremy / baku are relevant.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 15, 2017, 01:58:42 pm
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/chara16.html

woop woop here comes the Dor:3my Sw:3:3t train
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on December 15, 2017, 02:26:33 pm
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/chara16.html

woop woop here comes the Dor:3my Sw:3:3t train
Her book seems to be opened in one of the images, maybe we'll find out what's in it?
Go read the Sumireko transfer mini-arc in WaHH (ch. 29, 35), and maybe her AFiEU article as a bonus. This plus ULiL Extra connects the two incidents through dream souls, which is also why it's unsurprising that Doremy / baku are relevant.
Maybe Doremy is this game's Kasen
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 15, 2017, 02:35:06 pm
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/chara16.html

woop woop here comes the Dor:3my Sw:3:3t train
Is the "fake text" inside and under the portraits anything meaningful?

Also got to wonder what happens if someone possesses Sumireko while she sleeps and visits Gensokyo.
Would they swap with her "dream body" in Gensokyo or with her actual sleeping body in the Outside World?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: niektory on December 15, 2017, 03:18:17 pm
Is the "fake text" inside and under the portraits anything meaningful?
It' the game's title (written normally on the right side and upside down on the left side).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 15, 2017, 03:26:10 pm
So, should it be safe to assume that those weird pink blobs that spawn whenever Doremy manages to hit with her ranged attacks (in the first PV) will basically power her occult or something ? Maybe she's gonna have some meter of some kind or whatever.

woop woop here comes the Dor:3my Sw:3:3t train
Speaking of trains, I hope that her LoLK's extra stage 2nd spell (super express "dream express") will be in this game in the form of something that shall be a worthy successor for Yukari's train thingy, cuz It's very satisfying to ram your opponents with trains. This better be a thing in this game  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 15, 2017, 03:53:30 pm
It' the game's title (written normally on the right side and upside down on the left side).
Are we talking about the same thing?
Every character in that page has some sort of profile and 2 pictures with some text. For example Reimu has
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/image/char_cut001.jpg
(Name + something in black that looks different than the character title)
and http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/image/char_comment001.png
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 15, 2017, 04:13:21 pm
ugh, i wish they would just announce the other playable character already.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: niektory on December 15, 2017, 05:32:45 pm
Are we talking about the same thing?
Every character in that page has some sort of profile and 2 pictures with some text. For example Reimu has
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/image/char_cut001.jpg
(Name + something in black that looks different than the character title)
and http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/image/char_comment001.png
Oh, I thought you were asking about the background here: https://i.imgur.com/QiQDaYu.png

The text under the names are character titles. Reimu has something like "Freewheeling and haphazard shrine maiden".
The purple text below says something like "Body and soul change places; this is called the perfect possession".
Someone who actually knows Japanese will have to translate it (I'm winging it).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on December 15, 2017, 09:58:12 pm
Sorry to say that apparently just like HM, some features will not be available upon initial release..,
https://twitter.com/unabara/status/941661115615817729
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 15, 2017, 10:52:46 pm
Is anyone able to gleam what sort of features that would entail?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 15, 2017, 11:04:55 pm
Is anyone able to gleam what sort of features that would entail?

Tweet says a future blog update will tell what features are still missing but not much more.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 15, 2017, 11:07:21 pm
i'm assuming the steam release is gonna have all the features tho? since it's gonna get released later.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 16, 2017, 02:01:24 am
It's only one week after C93. Highly doubtful the Steam release would incorporate anything else unless more patches are released within that time. To be clear, the tweet notes it's assumed there will be a day 0 patch.

Also, lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 16, 2017, 02:08:51 am
ugh, i wish they would just announce the other playable character already.
You must be new.  ZUN and Tasofro pretty much don't release info on their games until a couple of days before release, and even so, they only release very little.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on December 16, 2017, 05:46:31 am
ZUN and Tasofro pretty much don't release info on their games until a couple of days before release, and even so, they only release very little.
Mokou and Sukuna were announced for ULiL almost month before the release of the full game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ronglun227 on December 16, 2017, 10:45:21 am
I don't think there will be any other new character. With Doremy and the two bosses, the character select page is filled.
With the square between Reimu and Marisa confirmed to be empty, my guess is that the middle one of the last row is too.
(https://i.imgur.com/CTfp9yU.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 16, 2017, 11:27:47 am
It isn't empty, it's the random select.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 16, 2017, 12:34:07 pm
If thats the case we still got 3 fellas to go, 2 being the new bosses.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 16, 2017, 01:12:59 pm
1 is confirm to be Sweet Dream though, so 2 is left

Edit: Oh wait, you already count her. 3 is left then
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 16, 2017, 01:28:49 pm
We've no idea who to expect and what roles they play, though, so this might be unconventional. Maybe the midboss isn't Doremy, and we get a newcomer midboss, then a final boss duo, and another two veteran characters? If to obfuscate the roles, we have a potential midboss revealed, we'd have another four characters in addition to the double final boss. Or maybe for the sake of teams there will be even more people— although it seems like certain characters may act in separate story modes to prevent the need for extra characters. Judging by the profiles, it appears Byakuren has Ichirin as a familiar, and is a familiar to Miko.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrystalCreation on December 16, 2017, 03:49:26 pm
The new character bios from the AoCF page have been translated and we get some pretty interesting info: https://pastebin.com/w3H7HVu1

Quote
Taoist-Minded and Animal-Loving Hermit
Kasen Ibaraki
"If we want to find out who spread this rumor,
our only option is to jump into the thick of things."
A meddlesome Taoist hermit who's loved by animals.
She quickly responds to the Perfect Possession incident and teams up with Reimu, but after realizing that the usual approach won't work, she starts the shrine maiden on some special training.
Kasen is confirmed to team up with Reimu.

Quote
Almighty Taoist who Works for the People
Toyosatomimi no Miko
"I have nothing against you personally,
but allow me to use you as a guinea pig."
A renowned figure and Taoist, who was brought back to life in the modern day.
To seek out the truth of the Perfect Possession incident, she joins hands with her business rival.
Her goal: solving the mystery of the "other Perfect Possession".
Her fighting style changes based on her Occult Special Move, which strengthens either her melee or her projectiles. The choice, however, rests in the opponent's hands; grant them whichever terror they desire.
Looks like Miko is teaming up with Byakuren.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 16, 2017, 04:05:24 pm
An Byakuren herself;

Quote
Superhuman and Enlightened Mahācārya
Byakuren Hijiri
"You were possessed by an evil spirit just now!
You have to resist it, or you'll die!"
The head of the Myouren Temple, a Buddhist temple that accepts even youkai.
Regarding the incident as dangerous, she sets out to investigate the Perfect Possessions.
With the help of her subordinate, she tries to solve the question of just what the Possessions really are, but...


Quote
High-Firepower and Star-Loving Magician
Marisa Kirisame
"This whole Perfect Possession thing is
a heckuva lot easier than I thought, huh?"
A black-and-white magician who does diligent research in the Forest of Magic.
After discovering the Perfect Possession incident, she enjoys the possession battles with the help of her bizarre slave.
However, Marisa soon comes to realize that the Perfect Possession rumor has been spreading all too fast...
Her fighting style may be plain, but with her deep devotion to researching firepower and speed, she can run circles around any enemy.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 16, 2017, 04:56:59 pm
While Miko's profile could also be talking about Reimu or Ichirin, Byakuren only has 1 subordinate in this game (unless the second new character is a UFO character). Kasen->Reimu, Byakuren->Ichirin. So I guess it confirms that there won't so much be set pairs who stay with each other across stories, but each individual will group with someone different.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 16, 2017, 05:13:38 pm
Never before in the history of this fantasy country did we ever have a strong taoist leader with such a close relationship with the leader of another religion but the dishonest tengu media - fake news by the way - won't tell you that. FIRE THEM!

...

I guess this kinda confirm that story mode teams shall be irregular. Kinda make me curious about who Futo's partner's gonna be though and how interested or involved her partner would be in following Miko's wiles.

Kinda make you curious about who this "bizarre partner" of Marisa is gonna be ... one of the newhus maybe ?!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shiko on December 16, 2017, 07:59:45 pm
Quote
Ichirin Kumoi
but she and her partner seem to have quarreled to no end over which of them has the authority of being the pair's master.
Quote
Mononobe no Futo
Her struggle with her partner over master's authority has reached a temporary truce

Sounds like Ichirin and Futo are teaming up as well.

Mamizou and Mokou also shares some partner descriptions.

Quote
Mamizou Futatsuiwa
with a partner whose interests align with hers.
Quote
Fujiwara no Mokou
she teams up with a partner with whom she has a mutual interest.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 16, 2017, 08:09:52 pm
I predict that a lot of characters are going to go up a few notches on the asshole meter.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on December 16, 2017, 09:39:41 pm
The Byakuren, Miko, Ichirin and Futo thing makes me think maybe each character has a story mode and not a fixed partner. Like, in Ichirin's she partners up with Futo, in Byakuren's it's Ichirin and in Miko's is Byakuren. Reimu/Kasen is pretty much confirmed, but maybe they'll have two story modes like Reimu in ULiL.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: NinjiGenki on December 16, 2017, 09:42:41 pm
Similar to other games on steam, what is the likelihood that Tasofro will release the game's OST on steam too? I figure I shouldn't have my hopes up, and if it were to happen, it wouldn't be a bundle on the first day since the OST usually come out sometime after the games.

It'd be nice to have an easier way to buy the music too.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Clarste on December 17, 2017, 12:34:41 am
The Byakuren, Miko, Ichirin and Futo thing makes me think maybe each character has a story mode and not a fixed partner. Like, in Ichirin's she partners up with Futo, in Byakuren's it's Ichirin and in Miko's is Byakuren. Reimu/Kasen is pretty much confirmed, but maybe they'll have two story modes like Reimu in ULiL.

Yes, that's my assumption as well. There's no reason the partners need to be symmetrical. Heck, there's no reason they even need to with one partner for the entire route. I can totally see someone like Koishi with a different partner for every stage.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 17, 2017, 01:58:37 am
Similar to other games on steam, what is the likelihood that Tasofro will release the game's OST on steam too? I figure I shouldn't have my hopes up, and if it were to happen, it wouldn't be a bundle on the first day since the OST usually come out sometime after the games.

It'd be nice to have an easier way to buy the music too.
If that is the case, I just hope they don't screw up and release it in, say, CBR 128.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 17, 2017, 06:06:12 am
Yes, that's my assumption as well. There's no reason the partners need to be symmetrical. Heck, there's no reason they even need to with one partner for the entire route. I can totally see someone like Koishi with a different partner for every stage.

Look like Koishi IS going to have different partner for every stage. Her profile even said that she can possess anybody with this incident
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on December 17, 2017, 02:29:08 pm
Seems like a lot more work, and that'd mean they'd have this weird incoherent mix of some characters getting the same partner each route, and others being stuck with static partners (hi reimu and kasen), not to mention what a mess that would make the narrative, along with having to write dialogue scenarios for all of those different mixes. Keep in mind that each story route will need to have at least three (four if they go with both partners in both pairs getting to talk) separate characters talking to each-other, combined with all the other bells and whistles that story mode in soku fighters needs.

It's entirely possible they'll do it, of course, I just think it would be an utterly excessive amount of work.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on December 17, 2017, 05:19:09 pm
Well, the game did get delayed a bunch
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shadowlupus on December 17, 2017, 06:17:23 pm
This might not make much sense but I did try comparing the gap between the first announcement and full game release date of three recent games, HM, ULiL and AoCF.

It takes 8 months but it was released unfinished. It takes extra 3 months to include Kokoro and 1 extra spell card for everyone else. I think Tasofro release a minor balance patch after another month but I'm not really sure. Anyway, HM takes around 10-11 months to complete. Make sense for it to take that long since HM starts everything from scratch.

ULiL takes 7 months to release, in a complete state to boot because it uses the same sprite as HM. However, tweaking UI, including characters' personal Urban Legend attack, new story modes, attacks, stages, and adding Mokou and Shinmyoumaru as new characters are definitely what takes up the 7 months.


Now, we come to AoCF, which somehow takes a year for it to be released despite using the same sprites/attacks from ULiL. From what I see, 5 new characters, stages and movesets added are the main things I figure would take the most time but other than that, I can't see why this game would take more development time than its predecessors and still run out of time for comiket. Here's my thoughts.

Story mode: Judging from ULiL, story mode spells will probably be the same, with 1 extra spell only for certain playable characters.
Dialogue in story and VS: If Tasofro, not ZUN, is the one typing the dialogue into the game, then this probably makes the most sense. With 19 playables, writing all that would be time-consuming. However, Soku did the same but it was finished in a month. (Of course, I'm sure that they start developing the game really early beforehand.)
Creating a really stable multiplayer network: Probably.


So, really, I have no idea why it takes a year for AoCF to develop, yet still not in time for comiket. Anyhow, I'm not a game developer so I could be missing something obvious.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on December 17, 2017, 07:02:45 pm
Judging from ULiL, story mode spells will probably be the same, with 1 extra spell only for certain playable characters.
What?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on December 17, 2017, 08:04:00 pm
ZUN writes all text for fighting games. Always.

And if you think that more than 2 characters talking to each other would be hard to make then you REALLY should replay IN. Or SA.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Clarste on December 17, 2017, 11:03:09 pm
Writing an additional character into a scene is no more or less work than having two characters talk. And changing partners each battle is no more or less work than keeping the same one. Now, it definitely would have been a lot less work if the partners shared a route entirely (ie: you picked them both at once as a team instead of each leader being accompanied by a certain partner), essentially halving the amount of writing necessary, but it doesn't seem like that was going to be the case anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 17, 2017, 11:48:21 pm
any news about how the game will be released incomplete? i read somewhere that they're gonna patch it the day it comes out to add all the features in, is that true? if so, what's the point of releasing it incomplete if you're just going to patch it a couple hours later?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 18, 2017, 12:26:47 am
any news about how the game will be released incomplete? i read somewhere that they're gonna patch it the day it comes out to add all the features in, is that true? if so, what's the point of releasing it incomplete if you're just going to patch it a couple hours later?
The game discs have to be burned a few days in advance.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shadowlupus on December 18, 2017, 01:25:46 am
Hmm, so I overestimated how much time writing dialogue would actually take. If that's the case, it is probably either the network code or bugtesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on December 18, 2017, 02:50:19 am
It's also highly important to note that Tasofro has to balance the whole character switching mechanic, especially since that's the whole point of the game. With how many possible character pairs there are, it can end up taking a lot of time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 18, 2017, 04:03:36 am
The game discs have to be burned a few days in advance.
Rather, as said on the previous page, they've already submitted the master copy.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on December 18, 2017, 04:52:15 am
Idunno if it'd stop ZUN+Tasofro but even if they make it fixed pairs and not 19 routes, that's still at least 10 routes that need to be written and made sense of in chronological order, unlike IN's 4 (slightly more because of the stage 6 split i suppose) and SA's 6. If they went with "every character getting a story route", that'd be 19 pairings, each of which needs dialogue factoring in twice as many actors per scene as the fighters before it, combined with AoCF itself having five more characters than ULiL (over a 30% increase in the roster size!). Certainly it's not outside of the realm of possibility for them to do, but to say it's not more work is silly, and if they go with fixed pairs I can't really blame them.

If they *do* have 19 story routes i'll be pleasantly surprised, I just don't think it's a good idea to get one's hopes up by downplaying how much more work that would be, given that giving each character their own route would be almost double the work, for narratives that themselves are already going to be dealing with twice as many actors as the fighting games have had in the past in any given scene. Especially not by making comparisons to SA or IN,  which even in the "least-work scenario" still had around half each the total pairings than aocf would have, combined with having only singular (that is, 2 on 1 instead of the 2 on 2 aocf will feature) bosses and a narrative that didn't have to wrestle with making the other five or three tie together chronologically.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ZoomyTsugumi on December 18, 2017, 06:54:56 am
I just want arcade mode back :(
Honestly the biggest thing stopping ULiL from being better than Soku for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on December 18, 2017, 07:53:17 am
Idunno if it'd stop ZUN+Tasofro but even if they make it fixed pairs and not 19 routes, that's still at least 10 routes that need to be written and made sense of in chronological order, unlike IN's 4 (slightly more because of the stage 6 split i suppose) and SA's 6. If they went with "every character getting a story route", that'd be 19 pairings, each of which needs dialogue factoring in twice as many actors per scene as the fighters before it, combined with AoCF itself having five more characters than ULiL (over a 30% increase in the roster size!). Certainly it's not outside of the realm of possibility for them to do, but to say it's not more work is silly, and if they go with fixed pairs I can't really blame them.

If they *do* have 19 story routes i'll be pleasantly surprised, I just don't think it's a good idea to get one's hopes up by downplaying how much more work that would be, given that giving each character their own route would be almost double the work, for narratives that themselves are already going to be dealing with twice as many actors as the fighting games have had in the past in any given scene. Especially not by making comparisons to SA or IN,  which even in the "least-work scenario" still had around half each the total pairings than aocf would have, combined with having only singular (that is, 2 on 1 instead of the 2 on 2 aocf will feature) bosses and a narrative that didn't have to wrestle with making the other five or three tie together chronologically.

As I said, having more characters in a scene doesn't make it that much harder to write. Maybe even easier since you have way more options to use. If you assume it is because there's twice as much text, well, wordcount isn't what makes it hard. 50 words can be as hard to write as 500. And as for routes amount, SWR and ULiL both had 15 routes, heavily interwined with each other in former's case. I don't think it's all that unreasonable to assume that ZUN could pull off upping the ante a bit.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 18, 2017, 08:02:18 am
Is writing 19 stories really that hard of a task? It's not like these games have deep writing, it's just "fight 5 bosses then the one who's behind everything". This isn't The Witcher 3, i don't think ZUN is overextending himself very much here.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TrueShadow on December 18, 2017, 09:23:55 am
Wasn't the delay of AoCF also because of the PS4 release of ULiL?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on December 18, 2017, 09:42:46 am
Chiquita's in. (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/chara17.html)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Jeremie on December 18, 2017, 09:55:10 am
This is... very unexpected to say the least... or at least I didn't see it coming. Suddenly I somehow look even more forward to this game than I already did.

As for dialogues in fighting game, they tend to be at least a little more "complex" than what's seen in Danmaku titles. Even with a limited amount of dialogues, one has to figure out the plot for each characters, all dialogue bits, everyone they encounter, dialogue bits after each fights in Vs. mode and then there's the endings. It might not seem like a lot but figuring and planning everything out can be a surprisingly big amount of work.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on December 18, 2017, 10:19:33 am
Eh...?

Suddenly I feel much less hope for AoCF actually standing a chance to ever dethrone Soku.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 18, 2017, 10:23:04 am
I'm intrigued, on the other hand. A little bit miffed it's not someone who hasn't been in a fighter before, but intrigued by the choice. I'll be looking forward to the gameplay and character interaction I'm sure will be delicious. .3
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 18, 2017, 10:27:40 am
Her urban legend is the conspiracies about HAARP controlling the weather that's fucking fantastic
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 18, 2017, 10:35:30 am
Oh my god I love Tenshi so much I barely can't handle that this is indeed real. I always thought Tenshi deserved more as a final boss. Looking forward the game's release.

Her urban legend is the conspiracies about HAARP controlling the weather that's fucking fantastic

AGREED.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 18, 2017, 11:06:14 am
So do the last two slots belong to the two new final bosses or two established characters?  The latter would mean the final bosses won't have their own slots until you unlocked them, or they are reserved for free DLC.

What's Doremy's urban legend, BTW?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 18, 2017, 11:51:29 am
That seems to be a secret, yet. It'll probably be significant.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 18, 2017, 11:58:59 am
That seems to be a secret, yet. It'll probably be significant.
What secret?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 12:05:52 pm
Tenshi, another character I never see it coming. Her with that urban legend is exactly like Mokou with Spontanious Human Combustion: A giant redundancy (hey, maybe they will pair up?). She already fire a lazer with her sword, so would it be an orbital weather bombarment this time?

Also, I know that she's a loli judging from Grimore of Marisa, but it's still surprising to look at her new art.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 18, 2017, 12:07:44 pm
What secret?

What Doremy's legend is. There is no indication what it is.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 18, 2017, 12:13:29 pm
Eh...?

Suddenly I feel much less hope for AoCF actually standing a chance to ever dethrone Soku.

that's okay because ULiL already dethroned soku.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 18, 2017, 12:14:55 pm
Tenshi, another character I never see it coming. Her with that urban legend is exactly like Mokou with Spontanious Human Combustion: A giant redundancy (hey, maybe they will pair up?). She already fire a lazer with her sword, so would it be an orbital weather bombarment this time?

Also, I know that she's a loli judging from Grimore of Marisa, but it's still surprising to look at her new art.
Not sure what you mean by redundancy...  It's a fitting urban legend for her since her beam saber can influence the weather.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 18, 2017, 12:19:23 pm
Tenshi, another character I never see it coming. Her with that urban legend is exactly like Mokou with Spontanious Human Combustion: A giant redundancy (hey, maybe they will pair up?). She already fire a lazer with her sword, so would it be an orbital weather bombarment this time?

Also, I know that she's a loli judging from Grimore of Marisa, but it's still surprising to look at her new art.
Apparently she creates a storm.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nyxnyx on December 18, 2017, 12:31:24 pm
Wow her newest art makes her look way younger than SWR. Maybe heaven peaches does that to a person. Still baffled about how she's suddenly pulled out of nowhere, I mean, who can see it coming? This will be interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ☆ Kana ☆ on December 18, 2017, 01:00:26 pm
Oh boy oh boy I can't wait to play as Peach Celestial in a ~new~ 2hu fighter...  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 18, 2017, 01:27:14 pm
Tenshi in confirms ZUN's return to AWA
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 01:41:56 pm
Not sure what you mean by redundancy...  It's a fitting urban legend for her since her beam saber can influence the weather.

Yeah, but it's like adding fire to a person who already is always on fire, like Mokou does, into a giant blue ball of heavenly flame. Here, a character basically known for creating weather pattern for destructive used, get an urban legend in which the goverment used the weather for destructive used into Geostorm.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 18, 2017, 01:42:33 pm
Wow her newest art makes her look way younger than SWR. Maybe heaven peaches does that to a person. Still baffled about how she's suddenly pulled out of nowhere, I mean, who can see it coming? This will be interesting.

ikr? she looks ridiculous.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 01:49:28 pm
Idk, I think she actually look kinda cute right now. She's turning from a sassy,rowdy teenager into a sassy, rowdy, almost Remi-like kid.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 18, 2017, 01:56:21 pm
Me and someone else have a suspicion that Tenshi's art might have been done by an imitator. It isn't necessarily the case at all, but there are a couple of things that seem off for Harukawa and look more like another artist's style. Again, just speculation.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 02:00:05 pm
I guess you mean how the eyes is abit too close to the face? Whatever it is, isn't it already official art?

Guess Tenko will become a meme as some point.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 18, 2017, 02:04:11 pm
Yeah, but it's like adding fire to a person who already is always on fire, like Mokou does, into a giant blue ball of heavenly flame. Here, a character basically known for creating weather pattern for destructive used, get an urban legend in which the goverment used the weather for destructive used into Geostorm.
You can say the same for some other characters.  Reisen can drive people insane, and her urban legend relates to insanity.  It's only fitting for characters to have urban legends related to their abilities.  I don't see anything wrong with it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 02:10:44 pm
I'm not having any problem too, you know? Just kinda want to see Tenko's Occult spell card be her trying to goes Geostorm on her opponent.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 18, 2017, 02:17:45 pm
rip already-playable-characters-aren't-gonna-be-in-this-game theory, we hardly new ye

Looking forward to best grill's interaction with the enlightenment-aspiring folks at Myouren temple or the immortal folks  :3
... also don't you love the fact that there are conveniently some urban legends that match the girls perfectly lying around
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 18, 2017, 02:24:08 pm
lame tbh - wouldve loved a different lesser thrown around character to get into the spotlight instead of peach-dingus

then there is the thing that she seems to have regressed into a 5 year old, even Nitori looks older at this point, are we sure her urban legend isnt the well of youth?

I want AoCF to dethrone Soku so badly and the second demo only made me more optimistic however this is kinda slowing down my personal hype train
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 02:28:16 pm
More like 12-14 tbh, and Nitori always strike me as a working adult with an unfortunate height issue.

Slowing down is good though. In my experience, reality is always going to be different from your mind, and always disappointed abit.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on December 18, 2017, 02:31:17 pm
Childlike Tenshi isn't new, Take a look at her HM cameo sprite.
(https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/5/5d/Th135Tenshi.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: RoamerB on December 18, 2017, 02:33:44 pm
I just want arcade mode back :(
Honestly the biggest thing stopping ULiL from being better than Soku for me.
Then buy the PS4 version.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 02:35:49 pm
Childlike Tenshi isn't new, Take a look at her HM cameo sprite.
(https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/5/5d/Th135Tenshi.png)

Yeah, but it's still surprising to see. We always seen her being adult-like, so it's rare to see Tenko flying around shooting beam.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 18, 2017, 02:48:22 pm
More like 12-14 tbh, and Nitori always strike me as a working adult with an unfortunate height issue.

Slowing down is good though. In my experience, reality is always going to be different from your mind, and always disappointed abit.

I would not consider that 12, even in this artstyle that generally makes everyone look younger she looks extremely small and just outright weird compared to how she looked like in Soku - and Nitori being a working adult..?

Then again we are moving into dangerous territory because artstyle arguments never end satisfying, its just odd that she exists and that she exists in such a way. Wouldve loved quite literally anyone else.

Childlike Tenshi isn't new, Take a look at her HM cameo sprite.

Even there she looks like a real human and not a midget tbh
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 02:57:05 pm
Yiup, Nitori obviously doesn't have that cheekyness a child have, but more of a shrewness a business woman have, especially if she's selling her own craft.

Argee about artstyle, but I does find it surprising in a good way to see Tenshi is back (I mean it's like, 9 year since SWR, and 3 years since her last appearance in an official game (ISC))
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on December 18, 2017, 02:57:14 pm
I sure do love Tenshi so I'm happy on this on one hand, but on the other hand it does definitely seems like a missed opportunity.

dunno what the odds of AoCF overthrowing soku are tho - it's gotta work against momentum plus if they have the same issue again of "any external process latching onto the exe kills the game" and haven't considerably patched up the netcode then it'll be dead before it even gets a chance to be born.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on December 18, 2017, 03:00:59 pm
fucking Tenshi of all people, now that's a character i would have NEVER guessed, well played ZUN

So, two spots left in the game's character select and one spot left on the website's character page. That'll probably be another existing character and the two silhouettes will be two-characters-as-one (thus taking up the leftover spot in the character select).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 03:01:16 pm
BTW, why does everyone want it to surpassed soku anyway? It's still a great Touhou game, IMO, whether or not it's better.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on December 18, 2017, 03:26:28 pm
BTW, why does everyone want it to surpassed soku anyway? It's still a great Touhou game, IMO, whether or not it's better.
I think it's because people want to finally move onto a new touhou fighter that many people can accept again. Despite my own personal opinions against the game, you can't deny that people still enjoy that game (and IaMP) more than HM and ULiL, though I guess it's because it's more "traditional" than the floaty fighters. They haven't been able to satisfy that itch completely that soku already has.

I think AoCF has that chance with tag combos and all that (which I have a ton of fun with atm), and especially since it seems to get rid of most of the random factors this time around. However, since it's still not 100% a traditional grounded fighter, it probably won't "replace" soku or IaMP regardless (I think more people want a sequel to IaMP more than Soku from the people I've been asking). It'll just be the new thing like how people still play Street Fighter II ST even though Street Fighter V is the "hot new thing". Or I guess a better example in a non-fighting game stance would be how people still play Melee even though Sm4sh is still being officially supported.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 03:35:08 pm
Hm...IamP and SWR does give out more spell card, thus a treasure trove for someone like me who want to cagetorize ability and lurk around Vsbattle debating who win who, so I could get this somewhat (then again, I'm probably not the intended experience for this)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 18, 2017, 03:40:24 pm
BTW, why does everyone want it to surpassed soku anyway? It's still a great Touhou game, IMO, whether or not it's better.

Variety and just generally something new again. Soku has been the best 2hu fighter out there since its A Traditional and B has lots of variety with decks C great characters with unique movesets and D is just really fun
it has lots of flaws which is why I call it a "flawed masterpiece" - but instead of building on said masterpiece Tasofro attempts to reinvent the wheel with the floaters which flopped massively obviously since the floating felt super unatural, weird alongside a bunch of other issues

From what I have seen from the demos, they improved a lot - things are a lot more interesting and Tasofro seems to have finally gotten rid of the wacky xD randomness and extreme gimmicks the other floaters have - if they pulled it off again, well see with the full game, because if they execute the floaters well we might have a masterpiece on our hands that will finally replace Soku.

Yiup, Nitori obviously doesn't have that cheekyness a child have, but more of a shrewness a business woman have, especially if she's selling her own craft.

I have been mostly going off looks, doesnt matter if shes selling her own stuff or has an IQ of 3000 she still looks like a 6 year old midget
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 18, 2017, 03:50:02 pm
ULiL and AoCF are both by far better than Soku, y’all just aren’t willing to let go.

anyway, i seriously don’t know why they made tenshi look like a toddler. if you look at the character buttons where their sprites are, you’ll notice that tenshi actually has the shortest/smallest sprite, too. what the hell?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 18, 2017, 03:51:59 pm
ULiL and AoCF are both by far better than Soku, y’all just aren’t willing to let go.

Do not attempt to trigger the floater vs soku argument because you will be filled with walls of text you wont be able to comprehend
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on December 18, 2017, 04:04:42 pm
Can someone explain me, why "loli-Tenshi" is a bad thing?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on December 18, 2017, 04:07:04 pm
i'd say wait until we see what her in-game sprite fully looks like first, then freak out over how tall/short she is. It could just be someone trying to mimic Moe's art too much if they couldn't get her back on board, it could just be a bit exaggerated, we'll see soon enough!

Also ulil definitely way prettier but saying it's better than soku from a gameplay PoV is unlimited bait works.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 04:14:23 pm
Can someone explain me, why "loli-Tenshi" is a bad thing?

Well, I guess the same reason people used Flandre as her name despite the whole name fiasco: famililarity. People used to see Tenshi as the sort-of bigger than life mischievious teenager, and have build their own view about the character in that kind of vibe, seeing Tenko just kinda irk some people I guess.

Also why is there a rumor that Moe isn't joining this?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 18, 2017, 04:18:19 pm
If we could cease (a) all use of the term "loli", and (b) all ULiL/AoCF vs. IaMP/Soku discussion, that would be splendid. thanks!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 18, 2017, 04:20:11 pm
Can someone explain me, why "loli-Tenshi" is a bad thing?

Its just super weird as we arent famillar with that + Id prefer if images of certain characters stayed the same, or are you interested in a game series where Marisa is suddenly a big adult, then super buff, and then a 5 year old kid?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 18, 2017, 04:22:58 pm
Even if it wasn't Moe drawing Tenshi and they hired someone to imitate her, wouldn't they have to credit the actual artist?
And what about Doremy? Is she weird looking for Moe's style?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: BernkastelWitch on December 18, 2017, 05:20:37 pm
I always thought Moe's artstyle made some of the girls look younger than would be. Also sprites and portraits can be a bit different(I.E. Byakurens chest in her sprite while she looks relatively modest in her HM and ULiL artwork and Mamizous body looks slightly different if compared to her sprite and Moe's artwork). The examples I gave may be just my eyesight but for all we know, with Tenshis case, it could have that kind of inconsistency. It is not unheard for fighting games to have that.


I'm just happy my favorite celestial is back.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 18, 2017, 05:28:44 pm
Yeah, I’m happy too. And the fact that it doesn’t change the fact that this is still an official art, so I hope to see Tenko in the manga soon. (Too bad forbidden scrollery ended though)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 18, 2017, 05:59:14 pm
Another goddamn character who was already featured in a previous fighter? Lame.

So tired of interesting characters never getting the development they deserve, at least Doermy is a thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 18, 2017, 06:18:14 pm
Let's not all forget that this (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:TenshiSwordofHisou.JPG) exists while trying to analyze her portrait art, now.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 18, 2017, 06:20:51 pm
okay so maybe the nine year old portrait tenshi got was accurate. i went on the wiki and it says that some parts of tenshi’s name mean “young” and “child”. also, in some pictures of her in the mangas she lowkey looks like a small child. damn, i was always under the impression that she was a tall teen that looks like she’s in her twenties.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on December 18, 2017, 06:53:11 pm
ULiL and AoCF are both by far better than Soku, y’all just aren’t willing to let go.
Seconded.

Also you guys are putting way too much stock into alphes' portrayal of the characters. (https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/e/ed/Th135_Futo1.png) Tenshi is fine.

<Moriya> I already asked everyone to not use that word (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20471.msg1374877.html#msg1374877). I won't ask again.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on December 18, 2017, 07:09:26 pm
Heh... somebody's back to get beaten up some more. I love this meme of hers hahaha
Well, so much for "cast that hasn't been in a fighter yet". However, I always welcome some more official artwork.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on December 18, 2017, 07:41:18 pm
I've honestly always thought she was younger than people thought she was.

The issue with comparing the "first-generation sprites" (aka IaMP, SWR, and soku) for age appearance is that it's more of a design-choice to make them all look as young as they do, but it is most certainly not proportionate to their actual possible physical appearances. A good example of this is their older fighter, Eternal Fighter Zero, which also goes with this design choice of their character sprites, which they all look a lot younger than they actually do in their VN counterparts.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 18, 2017, 08:16:34 pm
Seconded.

Also you guys are putting way too much stock into alphes' portrayal of the characters. (https://en.touhouwiki.net/images/e/ed/Th135_Futo1.png) Tenshi is fine.

<Moriya> I already asked everyone to not use that word (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20471.msg1374877.html#msg1374877). I won't ask again.

dont remind me of the bush eyebrows - we should treat that game and art like the avatar the last airbender movie
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 18, 2017, 11:21:05 pm
I don't actually care much for fighters so I wasn't planning on buying it, but today's reveal totally changed my mind. I'm a bit disappointed about no Kosuzu, but this is definitely the next best thing. Wasn't expecting to ever see her again, VERY pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on December 19, 2017, 03:08:43 am
Actually, it does make some sense for Tenshi to be a young child. That's how she was when her family ascended to heaven. And odds are immortality comes with halting any further aging. ...I do have to admit I also considered her to be in late teens. Oh well, guess she's my Angel Daughter now.

That said, using GoM illustrations as proof is probably a bad idea. Half the characters are drawn way too young and cutesy there, almost chibified in some cases.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 19, 2017, 03:55:08 am
Tenshi being a child explains her "flatness," if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: AndyPyro on December 19, 2017, 05:06:54 am
Whew.

Was not prepared for Tenshi's return.

Although it's already been said by others, I do admit that I'm a bit disappointed that someone who's been in a fighter before is appearing again.

But hey, that HAARP thing is pretty cool!
I also am just excited to see the interactions and how the story goes with these few!

If I may ask, are the remaining slots for the character roster only for the final boss(es)?
If anyone knows, I mean.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Nyxnyx on December 19, 2017, 06:57:42 am
I think we're taking Tenshi's portrait at face value cuz Harukawa can definitely draw adult proportions. Byakuren, Mamizou and Kasen all come into mind. So unless it's an imitator then there might be reasons why Tenshi's draw like that.

Or I'm just looking way into it, which happens many times with touhou lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 19, 2017, 08:41:31 am
You guys seriously care way too much about stuff that literally does not matter at all.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 19, 2017, 10:24:15 am
Whew.

Was not prepared for Tenshi's return.

Although it's already been said by others, I do admit that I'm a bit disappointed that someone who's been in a fighter before is appearing again.

But hey, that HAARP thing is pretty cool!
I also am just excited to see the interactions and how the story goes with these few!

If I may ask, are the remaining slots for the character roster only for the final boss(es)?
If anyone knows, I mean.
Either they really are for the two final bosses, or those two will have their own slots once you've obtained them, so the remaining two slots are for other established characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: arhus on December 19, 2017, 01:32:36 pm
How do I use second spellcard? In old demo you have to press A while first attack, but now it isn't working or I'm doing something wrong  ???
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on December 19, 2017, 02:38:17 pm
You guys seriously care way too much about stuff that literally does not matter at all.

Pretty much this.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 19, 2017, 03:03:21 pm
I think this affects artists the most.  They'll be wondering how they should draw Tenshi from now on.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on December 19, 2017, 03:13:00 pm
When has that honestly stopped artists before, though?

...And before someone pulls the "it's different than reinterpreting ZUN art" card, it really isn't.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on December 19, 2017, 03:50:54 pm
How about you people stop telling everyone what they should or shouldn't care about. Sure, this isn't anything groundbreaking, but it's still new information, even if it's new in the sense of "something nobody paid any attention to before". Besides, this does paint events of SWR in a new light - Tenko acted like she did because she literally IS a spoiled child, and not out of any conscious arrogance which you'd expect from an adult acting like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 19, 2017, 06:00:27 pm
I think this affects artists the most.  They'll be wondering how they should draw Tenshi from now on.
Not really. Zent's reply summarizes it enough. New official art, whether it's new artists, outfits, hair styles, body figure, etc; everything strictly increases the pool of design material people pull from to create derivative works. People concerned about using any specific designs will pull from that material, but generally people draw from their understanding and envisioning of a character based on the combined material of that character (even including other derivatives). Adding new artistic detail, even when some aspects are changed to be different than previous material, doesn't erase the previous stuff. This is particularly important for Touhou; malleability of character design even in official works is part of why the designs are so appealing.

Additionally, people already portray Tenshi as young. No new artistic details are really even added here to pull from. The slightly derpy face she's making is legitimately the most detail that's being gleaned.

Besides, this does paint events of SWR in a new light - Tenko acted like she did because she literally IS a spoiled child
This was explained in her profile though? And the fact remains that she's arbitrarily old anyways; her behaviour is all you have to talk about apparent age. Whether her body might have stopped aging or not is neither here nor there, especially since anything that's not a normal human can be designed to look however old.

Anyways, the main reason I say this doesn't matter (not that people "should" stop caring about it) is because artistic detail in Touhou generally does not infer setting detail. How an artist chooses to portray a character does not "make" them something different. If e.g. Tenshi is supposed to be young, she is young because the writing and author intent shows as such, and the art is informed from that depiction or direction, not the other way around. This art by itself doesn't actually inform people that Tenshi is meant to be young. Without the other existing cues already suggesting that, there's no reason to say it's anything but artist choice. She could be given massive tits just because the artist wants to; it does not matter. At least stuff like random massive breasts gets to bring up the question of how it got past ZUN.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: notext on December 19, 2017, 08:09:51 pm
Another goddamn character who was already featured in a previous fighter? Lame.

She wasn't just featured in an existing Touhou fighting game; she was introduced in and represents one. As always, the roster appears designed to show off the full spectrum of Touhou characters, so having one to represent the earlier series of fighting games makes sense. I think Suika is cooler but Tenshi is fine too, I can see her fitting the game's style.

At this point every mainline Touhou game post 7 is represented (with 9 as an understandable exception), plus the print works with Kasen and even arguably the sealing club with Sumireko. The roster covers a lot of ground.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 20, 2017, 03:42:08 am
Welp, 10 days to go! I highly suspect that that currently empty box may be being left for perhaps dumping a character in a later patch, as 19 characters is sort of akward. We did have Meiling in IaMP v1.11, so there's precedent.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: AndyPyro on December 20, 2017, 04:21:24 am
If we go along the whole 'representing a previous game' shtick...

I feel there's a few I'd like to point out that could be possible.

Do correct / slap me if I pull out a character that is from a game that one of the characters from the current roster is from.

I would include the PC-98 games, but I honestly am not expecting anything from here.
Although I won't scratch out the possibility.
I was going to go entirely with characters who haven't been in fighters before, but I feel that's a bit more challenging with Tenshi hopping back on the roster.

If I have to guess :

EoSD - Either Rumia or Flandre.  I honestly doubt Rumia will appear, or Flandre as well.  But hey, these two have yet to shine anywhere else too besides their respective games.

PCB - Alice or Youmu (Perhaps Yuyuko?).  I honestly do doubt Alice will be coming back.  For one reason.  Her play style.  Which I feel has been sort of taken by Futo.  But otherwise, I feel the whole 'Doll = Possession' thing fits.  Sorta.  Do slap me, like I said.
As for Youmu, I feel it's probably to include somebody from PCB.
I also want to say the Prismriver Sisters (Mainly Lunasa), but I can't exactly see them anywhere else besides PoFV... < <

PoFV - Medicine or Yuuka.  Both of them are involved with Flowers.  Otherwise, I feel Medicine fits with the possession stuff. (Man, I cannot get that whole 'Related to Dolls = Related to this game' out of my head, huh?)  There are also a few urban legends that involve dolls that I've mentioned before in this post.
As for Yuuka...  And as many have said before...  She's the flower master, come on!

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Lebon14 on December 20, 2017, 04:58:29 am
Andy, if people can play Rosalina in Smash 4 or the Ice Climbers in Melee, I think people could play Alice and control a few dolls at the same time. ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 20, 2017, 05:35:03 am
Well, you also have to think about the sort of Urban Legend that would fit them, and right now, I can't think of any for dear old Flandre to have here.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Clarste on December 20, 2017, 08:34:24 am
The urban legend isn't a problem at all. I seriously doubt any of the characters were chosen with an urban legend in mind: they were chosen first and the legend was chosen to (loosely) match them afterward. Does Shinmyoumaru really make you immediately think "little green men"? Does Nitori make you think "Loch Ness Monster"? If so, I'd have to say that's a little weird.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 20, 2017, 10:25:03 am
Alice's urban legend could've been the Mary the Doll, but that's taken by Koishi of all people.  Even that UL fits Medicine better.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 20, 2017, 11:52:46 am
after the game comes out, how long will it take for us to get an english patch?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 20, 2017, 12:36:45 pm
after the game comes out, how long will it take for us to get an english patch?
Since it's a fighting game, it'll take longer than HSiFS, so expect about a week i guess.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: AndyPyro on December 20, 2017, 09:28:51 pm
Andy, if people can play Rosalina in Smash 4 or the Ice Climbers in Melee, I think people could play Alice and control a few dolls at the same time. ;)

That's true.

Although I meant as in her play style in SWR / Hisoutensoku.  Where she would deploy dolls to use.  And Futo would deploy plates and such.  Although both function differently in the end... so I'm still unsure if what I said is valid.

But the play style you brought up would definitely be pretty fun, honestly.  Playable Shanghai when?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CapTengu on December 20, 2017, 10:22:34 pm
Well, you also have to think about the sort of Urban Legend that would fit them, and right now, I can't think of any for dear old Flandre to have here.
Hmm... the Jersey Devil?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Shiko on December 20, 2017, 10:47:36 pm
Now I wanna see Remillia or Flandre with El Chupacabra as their legend, but they just chuck Tupai in the opponents face.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: brliron on December 21, 2017, 07:27:27 am
after the game comes out, how long will it take for us to get an english patch?
Well, maybe more than that. I think the ULiL English patch took 12 or 18 months. With everything I did to support the fighters with thcrap, 1 week seems possible if they don't change anything in their engine. But we already know they changed it to add some characters, and I'm sure I'll have to fix a few small things for that. There is also Steam support - I wasn't the one working on the HSiFS Steam support, so that will be my 1st time working on bypassing Steam DRM. And it they decide to change their file format once again... For ULiL, I spent 6 months trying to understand the new file format, until I found someone who already wrote an unpacker. I hope I would be able to do it myself now, but it would still take time.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 21, 2017, 09:19:14 am
Gap Hag is Back (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou155/chara18.html)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on December 21, 2017, 09:36:02 am
Aaaaaand, there goes my hope they went with Ran instead if they wanted to involve Yukari.

Do they plan to port all Soku characters eventually or what?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: CyberAngel on December 21, 2017, 09:42:38 am
Wow, something important enough to wake her up is going on after all? Color me interested.

I always wondered what's her opinion on the major newcomers. Guess that question will be answered soon!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 21, 2017, 09:50:04 am
Wooooooooow I wasn't even expecting another character, let alone her. But wait, Reimu took a lot of stuff from Hisou Yukari and made it her own. I wonder what they're going to do with her now... Jeez, I really didn't care at first but I'm getting super hyped for this game now.

Of course, google translate is NOT helpful whatsoever. But it seems like her urban legend has something to do with some entity from another dimension....? Excited to hear from someone who can say for sure.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ☆ Kana ☆ on December 21, 2017, 09:53:38 am
what dimension am i in

Well I guess now I can make a Yukari and Tenshi team if I want.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 21, 2017, 10:05:41 am
Best hag is back!

Could it be that we misunderstood the statement saying the new characters would actually be new to the fighters?

Also, unless they actually went for 20 characters and filled the empty space in the middle, there should be only one slot left, meaning there aren't two new characters and the cover is lying. Or the final bosses are always paired with themselves and share the same slot.

Tangentially related, looking at the cover again it made me thing of Reimu and Marisa, although with some missing/weird parts as is they were made of smoke or something.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 21, 2017, 10:37:54 am
Could it be that we misunderstood the statement saying the new characters would actually be new to the fighters?
I don't even know what the source was to fact-check. Somebody mentioned it in regards to Tenshi but all I remember is people suddenly saying this was the case.


In any case this is great. Been starved for appearances. It's also funny that Yukari could be a Slave at all.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 21, 2017, 10:43:22 am
I distinctly remember reading something about it in an interview or an afterword. I think ZUN said, like, he wanted  to focus on characters that had yet to make an appearance in fighters. But on the flip side, I think that was back for ULiL, or maybe even HM.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 21, 2017, 10:51:05 am
W-Wow indeed, I mean, with Tenshi, thinking about the possibility of there being OTHER returnee characters should've been obvious, but still, I was honestly NOT thinking around these lines  :o I kinda expected to either have someone from either Youkai mountain or hopefully the Moon ; but it's Yukari so okay I guess. The things she gets herself involved into are usually noteworthy. Like, usually, she tend to get involved whenever some foreign force comes into play, with the notable exceptions of ULiL and LoLK. Is this just her way of "cleaning up" the aftermath of these incidents or is she dealing with something completely different, like the real thing behind the perfect possession incident ? ULiL's extra stage ending has it that some people make use of the opportunity provided by this incident to visit places that are normally not accessible to them. Could that be of some relevance or not at all ? Anyway, her being here is speculation fuel as to what the plot could be. And considering how her reasoning can be when it comes to getting involved (ULiL, LoLK, and FS), making a guess might be a tad risky.

Looking forward to her first serious interaction with Mamizou, Sumireko (especially Sumireko (but like ESPECIALLY Sumireko)), probably Tenshi, and her fellow Sage Kasen  :3 Also Trains. She better come back with that gorgeous, sexy train spell card. Ain't nothing more satisfying than smiting your enemies with trains.

Anyway, with this we currently have 18 confirmed characters, right ? Either the magic of Christmas is a real thing and we magically get 20 characters, or it turns out that the blue silhouette is actually based off one of Yukari's portraits and there is actually just only one new character this time, and some people's holidays expectations gets ruined :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 21, 2017, 10:56:58 am
I don't even know what the source was to fact-check. Somebody mentioned it in regards to Tenshi but all I remember is people suddenly saying this was the case.

https://twitter.com/aaaaari35/status/807983252438822913

Which was reported here
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20471.msg1302955.html#msg1302955

Going by the picture it seems ZUN said it during the game's announcement.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Plubio on December 21, 2017, 11:16:49 am
My three favorite Touhou characters are now in the same game.
This is the best Christmas present.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 21, 2017, 11:28:54 am
And with this, it's 3 people in a row in which I never expect them coming...did I just have low expectation in general? Also, Yukari of all people is involve, so the pattern get all jumble up.

Also, what would be her Urban Legend? My guess is The New World Order.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 21, 2017, 11:35:47 am
https://twitter.com/aaaaari35/status/807983252438822913

Which was reported here
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20471.msg1302955.html#msg1302955

Going by the picture it seems ZUN said it during the game's announcement.
So exactly; this quote never said all new characters won't have been playable before, it says there is a character that hasn't been playable before, which is Doremy. Or rather, the context of the quote seems to be that they were talking about a new character, and Unabara said they can't reveal much but will say that they haven't been playable before.

Sedrife didn't even make the mistake reporting this, it was whoever else spreading it.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 21, 2017, 11:39:42 am
Well...right now there's something you know for sure though...If Yukari is involve...may god have mercy on the newhus.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 21, 2017, 11:43:11 am
OMFG YUKAR-BAEEEE YES
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Jeremie on December 21, 2017, 11:53:52 am
I'm even more interested to see where the story will go and what kind of character interactions we'll get with her added into the mix.

I just really, really hope she won't be here to give us a repeat of the conclusion of CiLR and FS. Just... anything but that please.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on December 21, 2017, 12:10:30 pm
Now that Yukari was announced I'm honestly scared of the game not having any new characters. Having Doremy sounds nice, but this is starting to look like a Hisoutensoku 2.0...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Kilgamayan on December 21, 2017, 12:12:19 pm
SWR is literally the only fighter to introduce more than one new character (and it only introduced two). Don't let your fears get the best of you just yet.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 21, 2017, 12:22:16 pm
Well...right now there's something you know for sure though...If Yukari is involve...may god have mercy on the newhus.
New characters end up being more powerful than her.
 :P

And at least it's not Hecatia they're up against.

Best hag is back!

Could it be that we misunderstood the statement saying the new characters would actually be new to the fighters?

Also, unless they actually went for 20 characters and filled the empty space in the middle, there should be only one slot left, meaning there aren't two new characters and the cover is lying. Or the final bosses are always paired with themselves and share the same slot.

Tangentially related, looking at the cover again it made me thing of Reimu and Marisa, although with some missing/weird parts as is they were made of smoke or something.
Or new slots appear when you unlock them.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 21, 2017, 12:25:25 pm
It's not even guarantee that being stronger would help you escape Yukari's mercy though. If she plan someone to pay, they will pay her, and they will fear her. Her power is in manipulating power, afterall.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: game2011 on December 21, 2017, 12:28:55 pm
It's not even guarantee that being stronger would help you escape Yukari's mercy though. If she plan someone to pay, they will pay her, and they will fear her. Her power is in manipulating power, afterall.
This better not turn into another power level debate.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 21, 2017, 12:36:25 pm
It's not, and I hope we will not let it be so.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: #JUNKO4TH15.5 on December 21, 2017, 12:45:49 pm
do you guys think they're gonna add any more characters after yukari (besides the final boss)? or was she last one
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on December 21, 2017, 12:51:16 pm
SWR is literally the only fighter to introduce more than one new character (and it only introduced two). Don't let your fears get the best of you just yet.
I meant I'm worried about not having even one new character.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 21, 2017, 12:59:16 pm
https://twitter.com/unabara/status/943775144480141312

What's this about? :v
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 21, 2017, 01:13:34 pm
That's addressing the rumour they'd choose characters based on how little exposure they've had.
"That was a lie, wanting to put characters other than the previous playables... This time, nostalgic characters were also chosen."
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 21, 2017, 01:21:34 pm
Ouch...that's going to tank the hype train abit. Wonder why they would do so though...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 21, 2017, 01:46:12 pm
I meant I'm worried about not having even one new character.

You needn't worry about that. This isn't a silly pseudo-expansion like 12.3, it's a brand new serious game.

Wonder why they would do so though...

I would bet you Texa$ that Tasofro had 0% control over which characters were chosen.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PapilLionesskort on December 21, 2017, 01:49:56 pm
Um, ULiL technically did on account of it being Kasen's first proper appearance in a game.  You don't have to worry about lacking newcomers, anyway. That's kind of the point of new games.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 21, 2017, 02:00:43 pm
You needn't worry about that. This isn't a silly pseudo-expansion like 12.3, it's a brand new serious game.

I would bet you Texa$ that Tasofro had 0% control over which characters were chosen.

All the more reason they wouldn't do that nilly willy. They're not dumb, knowing full-well that tanking a hype train is a risky move to take (though not that much in the long run if it's a one-time thing)...Well, judging from the respond, it kinda work? But I don't know is it what they're planning for ultimately.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Fluury on December 21, 2017, 02:35:00 pm
Pretty disappointed in all honesty, I like Yukari as much as anyone else but I'd have loved some new faces - more alike Doremy, you know? Atleast her art looks fitting and I might be forced to refund AoCF if one of Yukari's card isnt the train.

I also really hope the story wont end up as the classic Yukari pops out of nowhere and goes "actually it was me, it was me all along"

So, we've only got one character left, right? That one being the final Boss/es.

Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on December 21, 2017, 02:52:40 pm
That's addressing the rumour they'd choose characters based on how little exposure they've had.
"That was a lie, wanting to put characters other than the previous playables... This time, nostalgic characters were also chosen."
Please be a little more thorough so misconceptions don't get spread.

"We said we wanted to make more than just previously playable characters but that was a lie, which of course isn't the case yet we went with nostalgic characters. We want to do the best we can in giving them a modern makeover, but we have to keep fine-tuning the balance!"
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: andykhang on December 21, 2017, 02:58:51 pm
Wait, so this time, Yukari and Tenshi could be OP as heck?
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on December 21, 2017, 03:20:40 pm
SWR is literally the only fighter to introduce more than one new character (and it only introduced two). Don't let your fears get the best of you just yet.

While true, I think the basis is that since this game involves tag-based mechanics, it's more likely the villian comes in a pair. However, how the brand new character(s) will be handled could be one of the following:

- Two new characters. This is what everyone is expecting (and hoping for) in terms of story, as the incident could be the work of a new pair since people think it's unlikely any of these characters would be involved with them.

- Only one new character. A possibility, in which the troublemaker is either possessing one of the other characters, or she's working together with one of them. I think with Yukari being involved, this has gotten a bit more likely considering her own nature of things...

- Two characters, but treated as one. This was something I saw people bring up in the HM/ULiL discord, where it can be two new characters, but both attached to one slot. So if you pick this character in versus, you can't choose a partner as these two are stuck together. To be honest I think this is unlikely since this could cause problems in terms of balancing, but it could also be interesting if this was the case...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 21, 2017, 03:28:21 pm
Those are all possible but none of them are related to GenoCraft's concern that I was addressing. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Critz on December 21, 2017, 03:55:16 pm
I would bet you Texa$ that Tasofro had 0% control over which characters were chosen.
That would cost you quite a bit, then. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18442.0.html)

ZUN certainly can dictate which characters will not appear, but he won't make the fighting game on his own.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Quwanti on December 21, 2017, 04:03:07 pm
That would cost you quite a bit, then. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18442.0.html)

ZUN certainly can dictate which characters will not appear, but he won't make the fighting game on his own.
"Aside from the more important issues, in Part 3 around 11', and a later part (which I couldn't find), ZUN also explained Tenshi's visual design. The original idea was for Tenshi's skirt to display a cloud pattern, which would be displayed as a separate image layer moving on its own in the game. In the end, the effect was not implemented in SWR, but later used on Utsuho's cape (we now have Miko and Sumireko in the cool cape club)."

No doubt there will be a cloud pattern now.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Gpop on December 21, 2017, 04:11:01 pm
Those are all possible but none of them are related to GenoCraft's concern that I was addressing. :V
I was putting that out to put into perspective that if the latter two options become true, we still have a chance for one more character to be returning, which means there's still a chance of another returning character that isn't from the older fighting games. However, if the former is true, then that should be all of it until the game's release.

I don't think it'll be a soku 2.0 with no returning characters though, since, as you stated before, this isn't an expansion, it's treated as a brand new game (just expanding on ULiL's core fighting game mechanics).
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: GenoCraft on December 21, 2017, 04:13:36 pm
I would bet you Texa$ that Tasofro had 0% control over which characters were chosen.
What I could get from the interviews in SCoOW Vol.2 is that Tasofro does influence in ZUN's decisions, at least a bit.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on December 21, 2017, 04:46:44 pm
All of you need to remember, that Yukari never resolves problems, that can be resolved without her. This means, that here comes a really serious incident.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: PK on December 21, 2017, 05:24:36 pm
I wonder if Yukari Urban Legend is the Bermuda Triangle. Stuff disappearing as if "spirited away" would fit her.
Then in her LW she drops a shit-ton of airplanes and ships on the opponent.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: ToyoRai on December 21, 2017, 05:29:15 pm
She is her own Urban Legend. The urban legend of people disappearing without any trace or reason.:V
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on December 21, 2017, 05:59:46 pm
Milady is here; excellent, excellent.

I'm not too surprised by her presence, considering her own presence in (at least) one of LoLK's endings; and thinking about it like that, I'm surprised her reveal wasn't actually sooner instead!
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: the old guy on December 21, 2017, 09:01:54 pm
Another opportunity for a character that never got any development at all to finally get their due, lost.

Sick and tired of ZUN's bias towards older games. Doremy got my hopes up for some more characters from LOLK or DDC, but instead we get a character who literally had a game all to herself (SWR), which had done everything that could've been done with her. And a character that's been done to death already.

The only good thing I can see happening from this is Yukari interacting with the Buddhists and Taoists, but there's a low chance of that occurring.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: BernkastelWitch on December 21, 2017, 09:50:16 pm
As much as I adore Tenshi, between her and Yukari, I have to say Yukari makes a lot more sense to return for this game than Tenshi. I'm personally a bit glad Yukari is back in playable form, though. I'm just curious on how different she'll play from the previous fighters, considering AoCF is Aerial based.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Suspicious person on December 21, 2017, 10:41:42 pm
As much as I adore Tenshi, between her and Yukari, I have to say Yukari makes a lot more sense to return for this game than Tenshi.
That might not be necessarily true ; say Kokoro's profile for example : her ability over emotions supposedly has some kind of relevance in regards to the incident : in other words, stuff that goes around the lines of emotions or the like may prove to be relevant. And who, besides Kokoro, seems to have some ability that is related to that kind of stuff ? Tenshi, with her sword of Hisou which does some rather hard-to-explain things to the spirit and temperament. Depending of how relevant that emotion related thing mentionned in Kokoro's profile turns out to be, Tenshi's ability alone would make her a rather pertinent choice for the game's roster. Like, maybe there'd be some aspects of the incident that would be best explored with Tenshi.

While it is wholly possible for Tenshi to be the Shinmyoumaru for AoCF, in the sense where the part she plays in the story will be purely filler or overall minor in the incident, it is also more than possible for her to play a major role, although there's hardly anything at hand to suggest which direction things could go at this point in time.

Not saying Yukari's choice is inopportune or anything, just that there is a fairly valid reason for Tenshi to be in this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: TresserT on December 21, 2017, 11:07:34 pm
I really hope she doesn't get turned into a side character. Compared to the Lunar Capital, the rest of the afterlife, or Gensokyo itself, Heaven's one of the most underdeveloped "political" bodies in the series, imo. I would be absolutely thrilled to learn more about ZUN's interpretation of Heaven, and this is a great opportuity to show off more.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: N-Forza on December 22, 2017, 01:39:26 am
Sick and tired of ZUN's bias towards older games.
Because LoLK and HSiLS also had a lot of returning boss characters, right? Like Lily White and... uh...
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: AndyPyro on December 22, 2017, 02:26:04 am
Having Yukari come back threw me off a bit, but not a lot.
Since Tenshi was a surprise, and I pretty much expected older characters to come back at this point.

I do want to see how well she plays, though.  What kind of attacks she'll use, and if the train comes back.
I do also want to see how she ties into the story in general.  I can imagine that it's pretty major to have her come back. 
Especially considering that I believe she said that she wasn't going to get involved with the urban legends?  (Citation needed)
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: Drake on December 22, 2017, 02:29:27 am
That's because urban legends generally seem to be good for Gensokyo's ecosystem. Even if this incident started through an urban legend, it's clearly something else now that potentially requires her intervention.
Title: Re: Touhou 15.5: 東方憑依華 (Eastern Blooms of Possession) ~ Antinomy of Common Flowers
Post by: nyttyn on December 22, 2017, 02:48:22 am
New mainline games consist of almost all, if not all new characters for bosses - with the sole exception of PoFV, and a few bosses/midboss showings here and there. So pointing to LoLK and HSiFS makes little, if any sense.

That said, while there is some bias for certain members of the cast as far as PC slots go - nobody past MoF has ever been playable in any of the mainline shooters, with the closest we've gotten being a sidegame starring Seija. The fighters are really the only chance we have for diversity in that regard (or another phantasmagoria but that doesn't seem to be in the cards), so it's understandable why people might be disappo