Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: iVAwalys on May 02, 2016, 04:55:36 PM

Title: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [Done for now.]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 02, 2016, 04:55:36 PM
obviously inspired by this thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19213.0.html)  :V
It has probably been done already, but here it is...
In this thread, we're going to decide which games in the series are the hardest, and which are the easiest. I'm only ranking the official bullet hell shooters, so no fighters like SWR and Hisou.

Rules:
1. Place your personal hardest game at first place, second hardest at second, and so on...
2. Every week, we're rating higher difficulties.
3, No fighters, spin-offs, fan-made games, photography games, Impossible Spell Card, Great Fairy Wars and PC-98 games.
4. Try to respect other peoples' opinions.
5. You don't HAVE to comment on every single entry. Feel free to do so if you want though.
6. Do not leave out on any game.
7. Troll ratings will NOT be counted.
8. Images are allowed.
9. You can be a little salty in your posts, just don't overdose!
10. Number your list from 1st place-10th place.

Alright, that's enough formality, time to rank!

Easy:

1. LoLK - 1.77
2. UFO - 2.33
3. PCB - 3.78
3. SA - 3.78
4. DDC - 5.56
5. PoFV - 6.89
6. EoSD - 7.00
7. MoF - 7.22
8. TD - 7.44
9. IN - 9.22

Normal:

1. SA - 2.88
1. UFO - 2.88
1. LoLK - 2.88
2. PoFV - 5.19
3. EoSD - 5.69
4. PCB - 5.88
5. DDC - 6.38
6. TD - 7.19
7. MoF - 7.56
8. IN - 8.47

Hard:

1. UFO - 1.50
2. LoLK - 2.50
3. DDC - 4.75
4. SA - 4.88
4. PoFV - 4.88
5. TD - 5.63
6. EoSD - 6.38
7. PCB - 7.38
8. IN - 8.13
8. MoF - 8.13

Lunatic:

1. UFO - 1.80
2. LoLK - 2.87
3. EoSD - 4.47
4. SA - 4.53
5. PoFV - 5.27
6. DDC - 5.53
7. PCB - 7.27
8. TD - 7.53
9. IN - 7.60
10. MoF - 8.13

Extra:

1. LoLK - 2.82
2. SA - 3.91
3. EoSD - 4.00
4. UFO - 4.45
5. TD - 4.73
6. PCB - 5.73
7. DDC - 5.90
8. MoF - 7.00
9. IN - 7.09

Overall:

1. UFO - 2.13
2. LoLK - 2.51
3. SA - 4.02
4. DDC - 5.56
5. PoFV - 5.57
6. EoSD - 5.89
7. PCB - 6.08
8. TD - 6.95
9. MoF - 7.76
10. IN - 8.36
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 02, 2016, 04:56:09 PM
first  :V

1. LoLK - Easy in this game is pretty much the same as Normal, only some spell cards and bullet densities are different.
2. UFO - Resource management.
3. DDC - RESOURCE MANAGEMENT.
4. SA - It's one of the denser Easy Modes in the series.
5. PCB - Again, pretty dense bullet patterns.
6. EoSD - I have no idea why so many people recommend to start with this game. It's choppy and full of bad RNG.
7. PoFV
8. MoF - THIS is the game I recommend for newcomers. Imperishable Night is easier in terms of pure difficulty, but this one is the most straight-forward, with no strange mechanics.
9. IN
10. TD - There are no bullets in TD Easy Mode. None. I literally passed 3 stages of it without having to dodge a single bullet. The mechanics are not very noob-friendly though.
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Marbychu on May 02, 2016, 08:56:37 PM
Alright, I'll rank these as that one guy who only plays Easy Modo because I suck at Touhou. That is me.

1. UFO - I never made it past Stage 2 until recently. Then I only made it to Stage 3.
2. SA - Never beaten it, but I did get to Utsuho's very last spell.
3. PCB - I've seen people say this is one of the easier Touhou games. They must be talking about other difficulties compared to other games, because Easy is... not fun. Stage 4 in particular is a nightmare (though I think it is no matter what). PRISMRIVERS...
4. LoLK - I thought this was actually pretty hard, but part of that is because I was playing on Pointdevice so I only had one life. Clownpiece and Junko were frustrating beyond belief. My second run was easier because I managed my bombs better.
5. DDC - I agree, resource management.
6. TD - I might have to try your suggestion of not trying to dodge, because I had some trouble with TD. Stages 3 and 4 in particular were nightmarish to me.
7. EoSD - It's not all that bad honestly, the hard part is not being able to see your hitbox, but you can fix that with a patch if you don't mind not being able to upload your score. And really, if you're playing on Easy, why would you care about score?
8. MoF - Not too bad, made it through this game with not many problems.
9. PoFV - The only bad part about this is Eiki. I have never beaten her without a continue on Easy, but everything else? Pretty smooth sailing.
10. IN - My favorite game is also the easiest IMO. This is the game I play again and again because I know I can do it with relative ease.

Yes I know I suck at these games.

Quote from: iVAwalys on May 02, 2016, 04:56:09 PM
6. EoSD - I have no idea why so many people recommend to start with this game. It's choppy and full of bad RNG.

I personally do this because it's the first in the series not counting PC-98. My recommendation has nothing to do with mechanics, but I always tell people if they want to start off easy to start with IN.
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Uruwi on May 02, 2016, 10:12:33 PM
LoLK (Clownpiece) > UFO (just general difficulty) > SA (hardly played Easy at all but Normal was hard so I'd infer Easy is too) > PCB > DDC > TD > PoFV > MoF > EoSD (only 5 stages) > IN (a joke.)
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Jimmy on May 02, 2016, 10:24:30 PM
I think this kinda Touhou rating thing has recently become quite entertaining, so I'm gonna hop in as well.

1. PCB: To be honest, I had the most trouble getting through this game on easy than in any other installment. Stage 4 onwards rather feels like normal, and Youmu's dense patterns combined with the sword slash mechanics finished me off a good lot of times.
2. UFO: The UFO mechanics make it pretty tricky to gather resources in this game, and the patterns are quite fast-paced from stage 3 onwards. Took me the second longest for a 1cc, main obstacles were Murasa and Shou.
3. SA: Stage 5 and Orin were, and still are, a nightmare to get through. Spent most of my attempts on her to 1cc easy mode.
4. EoSD: Wonky hitboxes made my life quite an odyssey. Pattern-wise it's actually fairly doable on the first attempts.
5. LoLK: Not actually really hard, I manage to 1cc this quite consistently after breaking the barriers that were Clownpiece's nonspells and first spell.
6. PoFV: Darn it, Eiki-sama!
7. DDC: All hail the POC bonuses! They make this game a lot easier than it seems.
8. MoF: Smooth sailing until Kanako's last two spells. Virtue of a Wind God
9. TD: Somewhat hard to gather resources, otherwise nice and easy except the stage portion of stage 5.
10. IN: Pretty much the easiest game for me out of all. Even though Reisen was a pain, I needed the least attempts here to do a 1cc.
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Monarda on May 02, 2016, 10:29:54 PM
As a EoSD/PCB player, i can also say that IMO PCB Easy is harder than EoSD Easy (Just 5 stages is the game's way of telling you "You gotta do better than that if you wanna progress storywise."
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: yomichiyu on May 03, 2016, 12:26:45 AM
Haven't played in a long time so let's see what I remembered.

1.LoLK - Once stage 3 came into play, it just got serious. And of course, Clownpiece. You're cute and likable and all, but just.....no.
2. UFO - Those damn lasers. Overall difficulty was bit easier but still pretty tough, especially once Byakuren came in.
3. PCB - Really hard to choose between this and SA. But this wins due to stage 4 being more difficult. And bit harder for me to adapt to the gameplay since I played 10 and above much more than the others.
4. SA - Challenging but I always found Satori's stage to be quite easy. Orin and Okuu makes up for it though.
5. DDC - In the middle difficulty, not too hard, not too easy. Although Seija's reverse controls mechanic does make it bit more challenging.
6. IN - It was quite easy, except for the troll that is Reimu and Marisa, but I found the below games even easier.
7. MoF - Best game for a Touhou newcomer. Until they get to Kanako's last spellcard  :3
8. TD - Pretty easy to play, even without the spirits mechanic. Of course, stage 5 and 6 (and their respective bosses) does get bit tricky, but easier than the above.
9. PoFV - Except for Eiki and maybe Komachi (can't remember if she was hard or easy), it's a breeze for me. Just gotta keep dodging and use the charges wisely.
10. EoSD - I barely play this at all, as I find the game to be way overrated. Only thing I remembered was that I almost fell asleep while playing it.
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Drake on May 03, 2016, 01:46:41 AM
You should probably change the title to "Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread", as the current title implies its goal is some sort of forum-declared official ranking, unlike the previous thread just suggesting it was a thread where people rate things. The former is much more troublesome and reflects badly.
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: ZM on May 03, 2016, 04:16:21 AM
Judging this completely by observation, I suppose. From scoring comments here and there.

1. LoLK - Stage 5 is went shit goes down. Some of Clownpiece's and Junko's spells might be a bit intense for Easy mode. Kisara does some really interesting tricks in his Easy score runs, so those are kinda neat to watch.
2. PCB - At some points there's little difference between Easy and Normal. Patterns from Youmu and Yuyuko seem quite dense for Easy mode. This game has amazing scoring on this mode, too. It's really interesting to watch, I recommend downloading a few replays here.
3. MoF - Kanako's final two spells alone put this above the others.
4. UFO - Mechanic can be tough to get into for newbies. As for this game's scoring, it's fun to watch someone like KG take this category far.
5. SA - Watching Morth score this is fun.
6. DDC
7. PoFV - haven't played this game ever but this is a good estimate
8. TD
9. EoSD
10. IN - lmao
Title: Re: Official Touhou Games Difficulty Ranking! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 03, 2016, 10:17:21 AM
Quote from: Drake on May 03, 2016, 01:46:41 AM
You should probably change the title to "Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread", as the current title implies its goal is some sort of forum-declared official ranking, unlike the previous thread just suggesting it was a thread where people rate things. The former is much more troublesome and reflects badly.

Done.
Honestly, I'm waiting for the Hard Mode week. This is the difficulty I could rant about forever, since I play it the most. Had to start with Easy though.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Monarda on May 03, 2016, 10:59:44 AM
Just a suggestion, but maybe we should also rate the Extra stages too later ?
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 03, 2016, 11:01:35 AM
1. LoLK
2. UFO
3. TD
4. SA
5. PoFV
6. MoF
7. PCB
8. IN
9. EoSD
10. DDC
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 03, 2016, 03:48:30 PM
Quote from: Starlighthawk on May 03, 2016, 10:59:44 AM
Just a suggestion, but maybe we should also rate the Extra stages too later ?

Actually, that's a great idea!
I'm adding it to the main post. Extra will not be counted to "Overall" though.

EDIT:
Quote from: Failure McFailFace on May 03, 2016, 11:01:35 AM
LoLK -> UFO -> SA -> TD -> PoFV -> PCB -> IN -> EoSD -> DDC

EDIT: Wait, this is Easy Mode? Well, my game difficulties will be the same for all modes, barring Extra if we ever do that.

You kind of forgot to place MoF on the list. :V
Yes, this is Easy Mode. The difficulty spikes between difficulty levels are different in every installment of the series, so it's worth to separate the ranks into Easy, Normal, Hard and Lunatic.

EDIT 2:
I kinda forgot to add a rule. Please number all your lists from now on. It will be easier to calculate.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Mikuru on May 03, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
So, does one need to have played all the games to contribute to this? :) I've.... only played two. But I have watched all the others on Youtube.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Monarda on May 03, 2016, 04:47:04 PM
Quote from: Mikuru on May 03, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
So, does one need to have played all the games to contribute to this? :) I've.... only played two. But I have watched all the others on Youtube.

As long as you have valid reasons, i'd say it's alright, but playing it yourself is the best way to form an opinion, i can't say much about stuff other than EoSD or PCB because it would take another miracle to get another game of the series, since i don't want to do "that".
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: TableCloth on May 07, 2016, 12:29:36 AM
1. LoLK - one word: Clownpiece.
2. DDC - as someone said before, resource management. Oh, and Sukuna.
3. PCB - not much of difference between easy modo and normal modo. Like, wut the fak
4. UFO - at least we have more resource here than DDC. Byakuren is also an easier boss than Sukuna.
5. EoSD - no hitbox sprite, difficult resource management, Patchouli and Sakuya. This one is rather low simply because easy modo only have 5 stages.
6. SA - I have easier time 1cc'ing this than EoSD somewhat.
7. PoFV - Randomness.
8. TD - Overly difficult resource management, but otherwise easy patterns.
9. MoF - Everything was so easy, and then come Kanako.
10. IN - lol.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Lollipop on May 07, 2016, 12:54:11 AM
1. LoLK - Lots of things that are hard about this game, but specifically Clownpiece and Junko.
2. UFO - Those dumb UFOs make me angry. Also Shou's lasers are the stuff of legend.
3. SA - Lots of bullets.
4. EoSD - The only hard thing is that there's no hitbox. They also give you less lives.
5. PoFV - Not difficult per se but random.
6. PCB - Meh.
7. DDC - While the danmaku might be more than the other games, DDC hands out lives and bombs like candy.
8. MoF - You get an ungodly amount of bombs in this game. Kanako is actually quite hard, especially the final 3 spells.
9. TD - I almost switched MoF & TD, but then again, if you don't have good bomb reflexes, then those bombs are kinda useless.
10. IN - No comment needed.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 09, 2016, 03:46:31 PM
Alright, Easy Modo week ended, and we've got the results:

1. LoLK - 1.7777777777778
2. UFO - 2.3333333333333
3. PCB - 3.7777777777778
3. SA - 3.7777777777778
4. DDC - 5.5555555555556
5. PoFV - 6.8888888888889
6. EoSD - 7
7. MoF - 7.2222222222222
8. TD - 7.4444444444444
9. IN - 9.2222222222222

We actually got a tie between PCB and SA! Also, I know that these decimal numbers look pretty messy, but they're really important at ranking the games, so they're staying.

It's time for Normal Mode!

1. LoLK - It dethroned SA by A LONG SHOT. Some say Normal in this game is harder than Lunatic, and it really seems to be the case for me. ZUN didn't really do a good job at difficulty balancing while he was making this game...
2. SA - It's infamous for it's insane Normal Mode difficulty.
3. UFO - This is the game I beat the last on Normal, until LoLK came out. I didn't even beat LoLK on Normal yet :V
4. DDC - Resources are easy to get, albeit the mechanics make you bump into everything on-screen you would normally just dodge.
5. PoFV - Eiki is pretty goddamn difficulty on Normal. If you don't have at least 3 lives when you face her, you might as well just restart, because her AI becomes beatable after she had seen you suffer enough.
6. EoSD - It's much more bearable without input lag, so go strap on that VSync, unless you want to get clipped by clunky hitboxes.
7. PCB - The patterns are pretty dense, but it's still pretty bearable and often even static.
8. MoF - It's standard, straightforward and easy.
9. TD - It's one of the first Touhou games I beat on Normal.
10. IN - A joke on Normal Mode. Stage 4 might be a pain if you're not prepared enough.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Mikuru on May 09, 2016, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: iVAwalys on May 09, 2016, 03:46:31 PM
Also, I know that these decimal numbers look pretty messy, but they're really important at ranking the games, so they're staying.

But why not round to two decimal places? We would need to have over 100 voters before that fails to disambiguate, which is in the realm of "not happening".
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: TresserT on May 09, 2016, 04:32:04 PM
1) LoLK- Normal isn't really harder than Lunatic, though I can see why people would say that. Clownpiece really does have a few patterns that are harder, and less bullets means less grazing, so less lives. This game becomes ridiculously harder if you don't like to bomb.

2) SA- the patterns are difficult for normal mode. The resource system means you actually have to be decent at dodging to get lives- you can't cheese the game by riding your stocked up lives the way you can in UFO or DDC.

3) PoFV- I really don't play this game enough to give it an accurate rating. But I know Eiki is insane on every difficulty, so I'll put it here.

4) DDC- The super random patterns are stupid in concept, but the low density makes them doable. The resource system requires risky gameplay, but you can get a ton of resources and cheese through the harder bosses. No bombing isn't too hard here as a result.

5) PCB- As far as patterns go, this one is just slightly easier than SA. But you get flooded with so many lives and supernatural borders that you can 1cc without a problem. You don't even have to work for your resources- they just come to you. Becomes significantly harder if you don't like bombing.

6) UFO- the resource system is ridiculous. Like DDC, you can hypothetically get a ton of resources, but you have to do a lot of risky gameplay. However, unlike DDC, nothing is challenging until the 5th boss. So just build up your resources early, then ride them through those two bosses.

7) EoSD- nothing too challenging. A few tricky patterns involving fireballs and knives with weird hitboxes, but still. It's an easy 1cc if you like bombing, and not that hard even if you don't.

8 ) TD- Resources are limited, but the patterns are stupidly easy. Memorize the best places to trance and you're golden. Even if you don't memorize everything, you can still do this easily.

9) IN- Take PCB's extend spam. Give every player 3 bombs per life (or a few extra, if you play as Scarlets or Netherworld). Give a minute long deathbomb timer. The patterns are mildly harder than MoF, but they aren't that bad and you get so many lives it doesn't matter.

10) MoF- The patterns are dense but not difficult at all. This game is easy to no bomb- Kanako has maybe 2 patterns that are difficult. So one might think "this game has easy patterns, but limits your resources to make it moee challenging"? Nope. You have limited lives like in EoSD, but you get so much power that you can bomb every pattern and still 1cc with lives to spare.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: ZM on May 09, 2016, 04:46:41 PM
waiting for Hards and Lunatics patiently
haven't even touched Normal Modo outside of some scoring stuff in a long while, but:

1. LoLK - Clownpiece's first two spells, wow. XD Junko's not really a slouch, either, by Normal mode standards. The scoring here is probably the most appealing in the game, for some reason, due to quite a few interesting tricks that can be pulled off.
2. SA - For newcomers, just substantial jump from Easy to Normal is the most significant of the Easy -> Normal jumps.
3. UFO
4. PoFV - (good estimation, I think)
5. MoF
6. EoSD
7. DDC
8. TD
9. PCB
10. IN - lmao
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Monarda on May 09, 2016, 05:45:44 PM
Edit: This one won't be counted towards the rating results as it only regards the games i have access to without "that", however be free to say if it makes sense or not !

Well, this is where i have the bigger knowledge.

This time, EoSD is harder than PCB IMO, the lack of a character hitbox marker when focusing coupled up with frustrating danmaku hitboxes (i'm permanently fearful of knifes and bubble danmaku because of it.) and default 5x5 pixels hitbox for Reimu made it rather tough for me to get started, patterns were a problem in Patchouli too, cause Reimu B, and the game isn't as generous with it's resources as PCB.

I know it likely is because i started in EoSD and only went to PCB after 1cc normal and Extras on that were done, but the PCB 1cc normsl took just 2 days of practice.

I'm still nowhere close to the skill and knowledge of you guys, this is just what went on with me and my arguments about why that happened, i'm sure there are flaws here.

Wow, i went a bit overboard, sorry guys. :ohdear:
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 09, 2016, 06:49:19 PM
Quote from: Mikuru on May 09, 2016, 04:08:56 PM
But why not round to two decimal places? We would need to have over 100 voters before that fails to disambiguate, which is in the realm of "not happening".

I was going to do just that at first, but then I saw the SA-PCB tie and thought that rounding it up would make people think I missed a decimal of something. I might want to change that now.

EDIT: Got it. (gosh i'm unprofessional :V)

Quote from: Starlighthawk on May 09, 2016, 05:45:44 PM
Well, this is where i have the bigger knowledge.

This time, EoSD is harder than PCB IMO, the lack of a character hitbox marker when focusing coupled up with frustrating danmaku hitboxes (i'm permanently fearful of knifes and bubble danmaku because of it.) and default 5x5 pixels hitbox for Reimu made it rather tough for me to get started, patterns were a problem in Patchouli too, cause Reimu B, and the game isn't as generous with it's resources as PCB.

I know it likely is because i started in EoSD and only went to PCB after 1cc normal and Extras on that were done, but the PCB 1cc normsl took just 2 days of practice.

I'm still nowhere close to the skill and knowledge of you guys, this is just what went on with me and my arguments about why that happened, i'm sure there are flaws here.

Wow, i went a bit overboard, sorry guys. :ohdear:

Sorry, but I'm afraid I can't count you in. You have to rank all 10 games. Only ranking two gives them an unfair advantage.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Monarda on May 09, 2016, 09:21:16 PM
Quote from: iVAwalys on May 09, 2016, 06:49:19 PM
EDIT: Got it. (gosh i'm unprofessional :V)

Sorry, but I'm afraid I can't count you in. You have to rank all 10 games. Only ranking two gives them an unfair advantage.

I understand, it's the right thing to do, just don't pretend it doesn't exists though !!! :(

And i don't think you are unprofessional, remember, it's just like Touhou, self-improvement !

But yea, fine with me, but are my arguments at least sound ? Or is it wonky ?
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 09, 2016, 10:21:37 PM
Quote from: Failure McFailFace on May 03, 2016, 11:01:35 AM
1. LoLK
2. UFO
3. TD
4. SA
5. PoFV
6. MoF
7. PCB
8. IN
9. EoSD
10. DDC

it's exactly the same for me

all the time
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: LunaWillow on May 10, 2016, 12:49:36 PM
Oooh nice, I couldn't rate the shottypes in the shottype thread as I usually stick to two chosen ones, but here I can tell some stuff. Even though I am so rusty in Touhou I would probably get destroyed in IN normal I missed easy modo, sad face

1. LoLK - just, no. I still haven't beaten it, this game is a torture and should b legally banned, someone should burn Junko and Clownpiece, because they are the worst. THE. WORST. I STILL haven't 1cc'd it, and it's been almost a year. Jesus.
2. UFO - God, that game was horrible. I had such problems beating it, the bullets are killer here. I mean, who cares you have 9 lives if you loose 12 every stage?
3. TD - if anyone thinks TD is easy, fight me. I just hate this game's mechanics. It is literally the only Touhou game that had me frustrated, and I couldn't get through it for weeks. And I still can't. Avjiovajviaojva;vavfd.
4. DDC - this game is hard.
5. SA - honestly, I never had such problems with SA as I had with UFO or TD. It's still hard, though.
6. PCB - I don't really think this one is that hard, it might be my memory getting jagged. But it's still challenging, and I really dislike Merlin's guts.
7. EoSD - time shenanigans. Eh.
8. MoF - this one took me like two tries to beat? It's so easy.
9. PoFV - okay, after the amounts of times I have beaten this game, I must admit I am very biased. I'm just addicted to it at this point.
10. IN - no suprise there.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Nameschonvergeben on May 10, 2016, 01:53:36 PM
Quote from: TresserT on May 09, 2016, 04:32:04 PM
9) IN- Take PCB's extend spam. Give every player 3 bombs per life (or a few extra, if you play as Scarlets or Netherworld). Give a minute long deathbomb timer. The patterns are mildly harder than MoF, but they aren't that bad and you get so many lives it doesn't matter.
Actually you get 10 lifes in IN, which is exactly one more than EoSD and much fewer than PCB, the ressource that you do get a lot compared to other games is bombs. Of course there are also the deathbombs on top of that and just IN being IN, so it's still easy
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Raikaria on May 10, 2016, 05:39:58 PM
1: LoLK - The game is based around the effectively infinite lives and checkpoint mechanic of it's alternate game mode. As a standard 1CC it's insane and I can't even clear Stage 3.
2: SA - Very close between this and UFO for me, as both have the same stopping point [Stage 4 boss]. But I get to Murasa and sometimes past her more often than I get to Satori and past her.
3: UFO - See Above
4: PoFV - The rubber band difficulty that really kicks in on the Medi/Aya/Yuuka fights onwards really hurts. Especially against Eiki if you made it that far 1CC.
5: PCB - I'm about 50/50 at getting to Stage 5 here. Never got past Youmu.
6: EoSD - I can usually get to Sakuya. Getting past her is about 40/60. When I make it to Remi I can get a couple of spellcards in.
7: DDC - I almost always get to Sukana who is a big difficulty spike and kicks my butt. On my first attempt I made it to Seija. Strangely enough the Stage 4 which is usually the hardest normal stage was a cakewalk for me here.
8: IN - 1CC'ed. Havily depends on the team you choose however for me since I struggle like mad v Marisa but Reimu is cake for me. Took a lot more attempts for me to 1CC this than MoF.
9: MoF - 1CC'ed; was my first 1CC but it took me more tries than #10 to do. The only real holdups were Aya and Kanako.
10: TD: I 1 CC'ed this in only a few tries and got to Miko on my first run. I might have 1CC'ed first time if I didn't derpily waste lives with bombs still around picking up spirits.

I love the fact that everyone seems to have similar opinions... except on TD.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Sakurei on May 10, 2016, 08:27:16 PM
1. PoFV: Impossible game. I couldn't get a decent clear for the life of mine. It also never ends. You will be stuck in eternal limbo with Eiki until the day you die and she judges your sins. Probably the hardest shmup of all time, tbh.
2. PCB: Almost impossible game. It doesn't go on for forever but I'll be damned if the patterns don't make me weep uncontrollably when I play.
3. EoSD: You only get like no lives and the ones you do get are forfeited from the beginning. EoSD doesn't let you win. Cruel game.
4. UFO: Ichirin is impossible. Not allowed to make (m)any mistakes to boot. A truly horrifying thought.
5. TD: XXC but getting to the C part is sometimes really hard. Would probably game over 8 out of 10 times.
6. SA: Dying means reset. But at least you get a lot of bombs to press X.
7. MoF: Same as SA except with even more x pressing.
8. IN: All static until Kags and until then you have enough lives saved up.
9. DDC: You get like 20 lives, what could possibly go wrong?
10. LoLK: You get like 30 lives unless you avoid graze on purpose. I haven't seen something this free since that one time the pizza delivery guy gave me my pizza and left without taking my money first.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 11, 2016, 05:34:19 AM
Quote from: Sakurei on May 10, 2016, 08:27:16 PM
1. PoFV: Impossible game. I couldn't get a decent clear for the life of mine. It also never ends. You will be stuck in eternal limbo with Eiki until the day you die and she judges your sins. Probably the hardest shmup of all time, tbh.

PoFV isn't even close to being the hardest shmup of all time. Even if it did, there's still Phantamsagoria of Dim. Dream, which is much, MUCH harder. Eiki is only hard because the rubber band difficulty is at near-maximum in the last stage. My strategy is to get as many lives as you can get, and then face Eiki. It's nigh impossible to beat her with a single life, but after you lose at least two, she starts to weaken a bit. It's like tiring her out.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Nameschonvergeben on May 11, 2016, 07:52:45 AM
Nah it's literally impossible. Hardest shmup of all time is an understatement
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Sakurei on May 11, 2016, 10:16:25 AM
Quote from: iVAwalys on May 11, 2016, 05:34:19 AM
PoFV isn't even close to being the hardest shmup of all time. Even if it did, there's still Phantamsagoria of Dim. Dream, which is much, MUCH harder. Eiki is only hard because the rubber band difficulty is at near-maximum in the last stage. My strategy is to get as many lives as you can get, and then face Eiki. It's nigh impossible to beat her with a single life, but after you lose at least two, she starts to weaken a bit. It's like tiring her out.

And that's where our understanding of the game differs. The difference between PoDD AI and PoFV AI is that in PoDD, it sometimes just derps and dies on its own without you doing anything. That applies even to Yumemi in the first round. However, unless you use attacks that mess with the AI (Like Reimu's ying-yang orbs or Aya's EX-attack), Eiki will never get hit. And that's why it's the hardest shmup of all time. The goal in the first round is not to kill Eiki but to not die yourself and due to the infinite timer, the skill ceiling is infinite. You could, in theory, fight her for two days straight and it still wouldn't be "perfect". Naturally, that's not an angle of play many here would approach but it is the way I look at the game.

Of course, PoDD is, as you mentioned, a super difficult game itself. In theory it should also be infinite but the AI derping out makes this factually impossible. Although usually you die before the AI does due to just getting completely and absolutely overwhelmed.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Choco Beam on May 11, 2016, 11:11:17 AM
Normal mode?

1. UFO - I can't 1cc this game
2. EoSD - same as above but haven't played this one for years
3. MoF - gave me a lot of pains while scoring back then
4. PCB - I'm just terrible at this game
5. IN - Kaguya sucks
6. SA  -  I remember it took me a couple tries to get a 1cc but I don't know how to play back then
7. TD
8. PoFV
9. DDC
10. LoLK


Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: LinkyFW on May 11, 2016, 04:29:48 PM
Normal..? Hrmmm... I beat one, so I guess i can rate the farthest I got? This rate is by 1cc right?

1. LoLK - Seriously?
2. TD - Get to forth boss and die immediately. Why do people think its easy?? Oh wait...
3. UFO - At least I can almost kill the forth boss...
4. DDC - Screw the 5th boss just screw it. I don't like it i lose every time.
5. SA - Can I see the 6th Stage please? You are on your last spell card...
6. PoFV - Eiki has been counting my sins... that's why she never gets hit huh? I get close though.
7. EoSD - I remember that one video where that guy died because a bullet spawned on him and he flipped all of the tables. That's happened too many times.
8. PCB - Last spell card = brutal.
9. IN - I blame Reisen for making me lose all of my lives. Last stage isn't killer hard... Stop saying its insanely easy... its hurting my non-existent ego on being good at Touhou.
10. MoF - Heh... TH10 is 10th... Its the only one I've 1cc'd. Maybe its because its my favorite one.  :V
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 12, 2016, 02:32:15 AM
I'm noticing a trend with people saying that LoLK either gives infinite lives or is super mind-destroyingly hard. And in only place 1 or 10.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 12, 2016, 05:51:19 AM
Quote from: Failure McFailFace on May 12, 2016, 02:32:15 AM
I'm noticing a trend with people saying that LoLK either gives infinite lives or is super mind-destroyingly hard. And in only place 1 or 10.

LoLK is the most unbalanced Touhou game in every single aspect, so I could see why. (Doesn't mean it's a BAD game, but definitely unbalanced.)
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Jimmy on May 12, 2016, 12:23:30 PM
Difficulty += 1. Let's go.

1. SA - The difficulty gap between Easy and Normal here is ungodly. It's been three years since I started playing this and Orin is still a wall of Berlin in front of me.
2. PoFV - Haven't played too much yet, but I definitely feel that this one is legit tough. The bullet density is absolutely hellish.
3. PCB - Not too many differences there between Easy and Normal, but the stages 4-6 alone are still worthy for me to rank this one among the top three.
4. UFO - UFO mechanics and Byakuren.
5. LoLK - Clownpiece and her stars and stripes and moons. Junko isn't actually that hard. Use every single graze, stockpile lives and bombs and you're good to go.
6. MoF - Kanako's VoWG here is easier than on Easy  :V
7. IN - Reisen was a pain. Everything else was pretty easygoing except Eirin.
8. TD - The scarce resource gain do prove this game to be quite a feat, despite the easy-ish patterns.
9. EoSD - Remilia is a joke, except for the second and last spell.
10. DDC - All hail the POC bonuses - again!


Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: LinkyFW on May 12, 2016, 01:48:08 PM
Quote from: iVAwalys on May 12, 2016, 05:51:19 AM
LoLK is the most unbalanced Touhou game in every single aspect, so I could see why. (Doesn't mean it's a BAD game, but definitely unbalanced.)
I agree with this, I know that's not saying much, but grazing to get lives and stuff kinda makes me cry.  :V
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Random Sphere on May 12, 2016, 07:38:20 PM
EDIT : I`ve changed some positions since I haven`t played them enough.

1. SA - I reached stage 4. And then, I die because midboss. HOW?
2. LoLK - Maybe it`s the game or my luck but I usually die in the first stage. T_T I putted this game in second position because, at least, I reached stage 5.
3. EoSD - I can`t reach stage 5 without spending all my lifes/bombs.
4. PBC - At least I could reach stage 6.
5. UFO - Same as DDC but with Sanae B. BROKEN AS HELL (really).
6. DDC - Reimu A and all those resources. Lol.
7. IN - Just because this was the first 1cc and I needed a lot of time ... And still, it`s easy.
8.  PoFV - Dunno where to put this game.
9. MoF - Pretty easy, if it wasn't`t for aya. I still can`t understand her nonspells.
10. TD - Really, I ?1CCed? normal in 3 hours.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Mero on May 13, 2016, 01:11:32 AM
1. UFO
2. SA
3. PoFV (with a good character)
4. DDC
5. LoLK
6. EoSD
7. MoF
8. TD
9. PCB
10. IN

SA is harder than UFO, but you just have to learn to dodge (read: memorize) the patterns and you're set, while UFO is not only more random, it has the UFO system. Like Sakurei said, PoFV has this thing where the AI is scripted to play perfectly unless you play specific characters, so depending on your choice you may end up spending lives to tire Komachi/Eiki out, which isn't impossible (assuming you have enough lives to begin with), but it can get overwhelming on the average Normal player. DDC and LoLK are hard, but resources are very easy to come by, so it evens out difficulty. EoSD just has limited resources. MoF has plenty bombs and they're basically free passes out of spells. Even when you can't XXC, TD isn't very difficult. PCB and IN are easy, with generous resources and have free hits in the form of Borders and extended deathbomb timers, respectively
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Totalheartsboy on May 13, 2016, 02:36:16 AM
Here we go!:
1. SA - Seriously, stage 5 and Orin are freaking annoying, it took me months to reach stage 6 and beat Okuu without continues.
2. LoLK - A little broken on stage 5 and Clownpiece and her non-spells that are annoying.
3. UFO - Took me at least 2 months until i could beat Byakuren without continues, seriously the only obstacle was Shou and her curvy lasers.
4. EoSD - Similar reasons like SA.
5. PCB - Dense danmaku.
6. PoFV - One word: Eiki.
7. DDC - Seija was annoying but not like Clownpiece or Shou.
8. MoF - Only Aya was the problem but not that problematic.
9. TD - Deserves the ninth place because Seiga give me little problems.
10. IN - Too easy, and Marisa is broken because she is Marisa.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Lollipop on May 15, 2016, 02:47:14 AM
1. UFO - The danmaku isn't hard per se but the ufo mechanic is dumb.
2. SA - Stage 5 is really hard.
3. LoLK - Once again, Stages 5 and 6 are absolute bullcrap. It feels like Lunatic. But in return, you get an ungodly amount of lives. Hopefully the next game isn't this unbalanced.
4. PCB - Youmu and Yuyuko have some really dense damnaku.
5. DDC - I might be biased on this one, mainly because I play DDC a lot.
6. PoFV - Shikeiki is basically a wall. I can make the first 8 stages without losing a single life, and then I end up with almost no lives at the end. Gosh darn it, Shikeiki.
7. EoSD - Resource managment. That and the danmaku as a whole is difficult.
8. TD - Even more resource managment. You have to be able to adapt easily, because depending on how your run goes, you might not be able to trance at certain times. But the danmaku is still pretty sparse.
9. MoF - Handing out bombs like candy since 2007. Those final 3 spells are still tricky, however.
10. IN - No comment.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on May 15, 2016, 10:15:32 AM
EDIT: Ignore me I can't read.

I only played EoSD, PCB, PoFV, SA and the demo of LoLK so...

1. SA - Orin is Satan.
2. EoSD - I 1cc'd this once. With maximum starting lives. And I had nothing left by the end of it.
3. PCB - I got pretty far, but I always use all my continues.
4. PoFV - I cleared it for the first time on my second run (with Marisa) and I think every Normal run afterwards was successful.

I'm not ranking the LoLK demo because I haven't played it that much. (Also it's been a while since I've tried playing a Touhou game, so my memory could be a bit hazy)
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 15, 2016, 11:10:02 AM
Quote from: Hope ♦ Metal on May 15, 2016, 10:15:32 AM
I only played EoSD, PCB, PoFV, SA and the demo of LoLK so...

1. SA - Orin is Satan.
2. EoSD - I 1cc'd this once. With maximum starting lives. And I had nothing left by the end of it.
3. PCB - I got pretty far, but I always use all my continues.
4. PoFV - I cleared it for the first time on my second run (with Marisa) and I think every Normal run afterwards was successful.

I'm not ranking the LoLK demo because I haven't played it that much. (Also it's been a while since I've tried playing a Touhou game, so my memory could be a bit hazy)

Again, I'm very sorry, but you have to rank all the games in order to participate.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on May 15, 2016, 03:47:31 PM
Quote from: iVAwalys on May 15, 2016, 11:10:02 AM
Again, I'm very sorry, but you have to rank all the games in order to participate.
Whoops I didn't pay attention to the rules.
but I still wanted to call Orin Satan
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Uruwi on May 16, 2016, 05:34:43 AM
1. LoLK - last one I beat. Fuck Clownpiece and Junko.
2. UFO - Byakuren eating 5 lives, 2 on the last spellcard?
3. SA - Most frustrating for sure.
4. DDC - generous on resources but some attacks are difficult.
5. EoSD - no visible hitbox + Remilia making you bomb whenever a bullet approaches you.
6. IN - especially Marisa and Reisen. Kaguya was meh.
7. TD - Miko was hard, the other bosses were easy, but there weren't enough extends.
8. PoFV
9. MoF
10. PCB
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Sen on May 16, 2016, 01:54:26 PM
Hoo boy, been a while since I played Normal.

LoLK - goes without saying
SA - SA was one of the first Normal games I played and the last one for me to 1cc. It rightfully kicked my ass until I got good enough to 1cc the others
UFO - I would say UFO has harder danmaku, but because you can rack up resources so easily, it balances out more on lower difficulties. SA is brutal and unforgiving across all difficulties
EoSD - EoSD is also pretty good at even increases in difficulty across all levels. Normal feels like an appropriate step above Easy.
PoFV - wasn't totally sure where to throw this one, because of the genuinely random danmaku + AI jank, but I feel like the random nature makes PoFV always appropriately difficult for your skill level
PCB - I'm probably biased because PCB was my first Touhou game, but Normal feels like a fair challenge on its own. Supernatural Borders really help alleviate this, so I put it further down on the list.
MoF - some really nifty and challenging patterns, but bombspam works wonders!
DDC - resources for days and overall easier patterns
IN - with options like the Border Team, borderline static patterns, and a timebomb window lasting about a month, it's hard to say this was a challenge. IN was actually my first Normal 1cc, and it didn't even hit me what an accomplishment that was for a few minutes!
TD - lol
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Hard Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 16, 2016, 04:39:45 PM
alright, it's either me being wrong at the calculations, or WE JUST GOT A TRIPLE TIE AT THE FIRST PLACE.

1. SA - 2.88
1. UFO - 2.88
1. LoLK - 2.88
2. PoFV - 5.19
3. EoSD - 5.69
4. PCB - 5.88
5. DDC - 6.38
6. TD - 7.19
7. MoF - 7.56
8. IN - 8.47

...Anyway, time for Hard~ (FINALLY)

1. UFO - It's like this game was programmed just to troll the player. The UFOs keep changing the color at the worst time (THE F****NG BLUE UFOs), clipdeath patterns, annoying enemies all mix together to make by far the most frustrating game to 1CC in Bullet Hell history. Sure, you get like 12 lives, but only if you somehow manage to collect the Red UFOs perfectly. (Impossible, unless you perform some kind of miracle.) I haven't 1CC'd this game on Hard yet, and I think I don't even want to try.

2. LoLK - The second game I haven't 1CC'd on Hard yet. I don't care it gives you 20 lives. You can lose all of them in a single stage. The patterns are brutal.

3. DDC - Satan. The PoC-based resource system is by far the most annoying thing besides the mentioned UFOs. You have no idea how many times I went up, just to get hit by a stray bullet or a random fairy. Also, screw your dishwasher, Seija.

4. PoFV - The rubber band AI is strong with this one.

5. TD - I hate the resource system. It gives you way too little lives to survive, albeit the patterns themselves aren't that hard.

6. SA - It's not really that more difficult than Normal. It was the first game I 1CC'd on Hard, actually.

7. IN - The time point system really lures me into going unfocus mode an dying shortly after. The patterns are incredibly dense, sometimes absurd, but you can mostly marcododge them with enough strategy and careful movement planning.

8. EoSD - Stage 4 is hell, but the rest of the game is pretty standard, unless you're having bad RNG.

9. MoF - It can give you a lot of lives if you can use the PoC to it's full extent. The bombs not only are really cheap, but they also deal a lot of damage.

10. PCB - Yeah, not kidding. I may just be really good at dodging slow, dense patterns. I love the life system too.

Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Hard Mode]
Post by: TresserT on May 16, 2016, 09:57:13 PM
1) LoLK- There are several patterns that are harder here than on Lunatic (Seiran's last, Doremy's third, Sagume's first) and several that are equally as hard. While the patterns are easier as a whole, it's much more difficult to get resources. On Lunatic you're pretty much guranteed a life fragment every chapter, so it's just bomb-bomb-bomb-suicide. Here, you really have to work for your lives. I'd say this difficulty is possibly harder than lunatic as a result. And there's no way in hell I could beat this without bombs.

2) UFO - There aren't any patterns that are really challnging until the second half of stage 5. But after midboss Nazrin, the rest of the game is brutal. For the first half of the game, the main challenge is in getting all the UFOs you want. Basically, hard takes Lunatic stage difficulty and Normal's boss difficulty. I'm exaggerating but still...

3) PoFV- like I said, I don't play this game enough but this seems fine...?

4) TD- The patterns are a little challenging, but nothing is that hard until Miko. The problem is the resource system. It's not easy to get lives or bombs, so messing up even once is extremely costly.

5) DDC- The strategy is the same as on normal. The early stages aren't much harder here than on normal, so you stock up on lives and bombs then ride them through stage 5+. The only difference is, there a quite a few powered up boss patterns, so you need to be more careful about when to use your resources.

6) PCB- this one's kind of iffy. The game floods you with lives and bombs, so you can 1cc it easily. But the patterns are much harder than in MoF or IN, so if you're doing any sort of challenge it becomes a pain.

7) SA- Not much of a jump between normal and hard. Several patterns work differently, though, so you'll have to get used to the new way things work.

8 ) EoSD- There's really no difference in how you do stages/boss patterns between normal, hard and lunatic. This is just easier. Like, in UFO you want to bomb certain stage portions on Lunatic, but on hard you're fine. Here you bomb the same spots and rely on your skill in the same spots. This is just easier.

9) IN- There's nothing really difficult about this game. Stage 4+ can have some hard parts. But nothing that bad.

10) MoF- Same as normal. Bombombombombomb. You never even have to dodge. Even without bomb spam, there's not much on this difficulty that's really that challenging.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Hard Mode]
Post by: Choco Beam on May 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PM
The same exact rating as normal mode for the same reason.

1. UFO
2. EoSD
3. MoF
4. PCB
5. IN
6. SA 
7. TD
8. PoFV
9. DDC
10. LoLK
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Hard Mode]
Post by: TableCloth on May 16, 2016, 11:49:52 PM
Hmm...

1. UFO - Different difficulty force you to do different ufo routing, and some patterns are just crazy hax gone crazier (f*ck you, Shou).
2. LoLK - There is just a lot of brutal patterns. Earlier stages are especially brutal for Reisen player like me.
3. DDC - More-often-annoying-than-not patterns and a rather difficult routing. At least stage 4 is generous enough to give me some lives before cost it all on Tsukumo sisters and Seija.
4. SA - The best part about this is that stage 5 is actually challenging even with ReimuA. Best game ~<3
5. PCB - Damn Prismriver. At least Youmu isn't much harder.
6. TD - While the patterns isn't much harder than Normal, messing up means losing an additional live or two.
7. PoFV - This one isn't much harder than Normal, the exception being penultimate & last bosses.
8. EoSD - a lot of Sakuya's and Remilia's spell cards are way easier than the Normal version (except 'The World' and 'Scarlet Meister'), it was laughable. On the other hand, Meiling have a huge difficulty leap from Normal.
9. MoF - Sanae is difficult, but you mostly have a lot of lives by the time you reach her from all them bombing and free Extends.
10. IN - Again with the laughable difficulty. This time, Eirin become a lot harder than Kaguya, it's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Normal Mode]
Post by: Mero on May 17, 2016, 12:52:48 AM
Going by the assumption one has already played Normal and generally knows what to expect:

1. LoLK
2. UFO
3. DDC
4. SA
5. PoFV
6. EoSD
7. TD
8. PCB
9. IN
10. MoF

I feel Tres's description was on point, LoLK is an unbalanced mess and it is on Hard where it really shows. Some patterns, while they follow the same general logic across difficulties, they work so differently that their Hard version is comparable to its Lunatic one for their own reasons (e.g. Doremy's laser card on Lunatic is denser, but on Hard the lasers are slow enough for the bullets to actually be an issue), and some other patterns, if you can barely get a piece on Lunatic, then forget about getting it on Hard (Normal usually doesn't have this issue because graze items are easier to get).

UFO's biggest hurdle is learning the UFO system, but you have Easy and Normal to get comfortable with it. After that it's very easy to get Lives/bombs. Although, in terms of patterns, UFO does scale up substantially and you can't get resources during bosses, who can make you lose what you have just as easily as you got it

DDC is just the same as on Normal: hard patterns, easy resources

If you could memorize SA Normal, you've already memorized half of SA Hard, so it's not hard to get into it

PoFV is pretty much the same, it just picks up the pace earlier

EoSD is just dead average

TD now has you actually paying some attention to it, so you don't get killed and mess up your route, but still not very difficult (and trance is easier to fill).

PCB does see an increase in difficulty, but it also helps your defensive options a bit (more bullets=larger cancels=more borders), and it's still quite generous with resources

IN kinda just stays where it was. There are more bullets, but they get cancelled by familiars from dying enemies, some bosses (like Marisa) start getting difficult, but it's all very much manageable. And you still have extended deathbomb timers

MoF doesn't have many difficult patterns, probably just PWG and VoWG. Though if you decide to throw skill out the window, you can always bomb everything.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Hard Mode]
Post by: ZM on May 17, 2016, 06:27:05 PM
1. UFO - It's pretty crazy how the Stage 5 portion is nearly identical to the Lunatic variation. Heh, it certainly made it easier on me once I climbed up. Anyway, UFO Hard is certainly one of the most infamous difficulties in the series. One really needs to get a hang of the UFO system or they'll be in for a rough time.
2. LoLK - Basically what Tres and GMK said. For the sake of clearing, LoLK Hard isn't too bad (just bomb everything lmao). But for the sake of the patterns, they're on the higher-end of the spectrum compared to most other Hard modes.
3. SA - If you've done Normal, you can definitely do Hard. Patterns here get a buff, but nothing too outrageous.
4. PoFV - This seems like a good spot.
5. DDC
6. EoSD
7. TD
8. MoF
9. IN
10. PCB - kek
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 17, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
Quote from: Failure McFailFace on May 03, 2016, 11:01:35 AM
1. LoLK
2. UFO
3. TD
4. SA
5. PoFV
6. MoF
7. PCB
8. IN
9. EoSD
10. DDC
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Hard Mode]
Post by: Sen on May 21, 2016, 03:13:35 PM
Yay, Hard is what I'm actually at.

LoLK - I think Tres said it the best; LoLK Hard is almost unfair at times. If you're playing Legacy Mode, getting life pieces can be incredibly difficult. Lunatic has all the bullets you could graze and more, but you have to really work for some life pieces in Hard Mode (Extra stage falls into the same problem). I've only ever played LoLK on Hard and Lunatic so I can't say how it compares to Normal.
UFO - There's a billion lives and bombs, but the patterns have a noticeable increase in density. The increase in difficulty from Stage 4 to 5 is fucking absurd
PoFV - the cheating AI really starts to kick in for PoFV, far more noticeably than in Normal
EoSD - again, I think EoSD has the most balanced progression between difficulties. Stage 4 really ramps it up on Hard.
SA - if you can 1cc Normal, you can 1cc Hard
TD - TD's patterns are easier overall, but you get so few resources that a single death can mean the difference between a 1cc and a game over on Newborn Divine Spirit.
DDC - tons of resources, but the patterns are noticeably denser than on Normal
IN - same as Normal; IN is mostly static and has a deathbomb timer that allows effortless life saving
PCB - there's a definite increase in difficulty, but the generous life system and Supernatural Borders offset that by a lot
MoF - hahaha
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on May 25, 2016, 02:58:33 PM
sorry for being 3 goddamn days late

Alright, the results for Hard are in.

1. UFO - 1.50
2. LoLK - 2.50
3. DDC - 4.75
4. SA - 4.88
4. PoFV - 4.88
5. TD - 5.63
6. EoSD - 6.38
7. PCB - 7.38
8. IN - 8.13
8. MoF - 8.13

Again with the ties... (I'm seriously considering making a tiebreaker week after we're done with everything.)
LUNATIC TIME~!

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. UFO - My feelings are basically the same as for Hard. UFO Lunatic is on a whole another level though. It's definitely way up there with the hardest Bullet Hell shooters.

2. SA - Pure bullet hell madness. It's not like the mechanics are bad or anything, in fact, they're surprisingly simple for a Touhou game. It's just that the patterns are insanely difficult to dodge. Simple, yet deadly.

3. DDC - I hate the game. Take Junko's hatred towards Chang'e and multiply it times 10, and you basically get my feelings towards DDC. I'm not kidding.

4. LoLK - Same as Hard, only arguably much more difficult.

5. PoFV - Dodging is basically impossible at the later stages. You HAVE to abuse the bullet deleting effects and manipulate the rubber band difficulty, otherwise you're pretty much dead.

6. EoSD - RNG walls. Need I say more?

7. TD - It's a huge spike from Hard. It can get insane at Stage 4, but the two last stages are not much more difficulty than on Hard.

8. IN - The Last Spell system may waste your bombs, and the walls are insane, but at least you get a lot of resources.

9. MoF - VoWG.

10. PCB - I nearly 1CC'd it on Lunatic once, actually. I lost halfway through Yuyuko. I think if I try harder, it may even be the first game I'll 1CC on Lunatic.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: ふねん1 on May 25, 2016, 03:42:36 PM
1. UFO - This actually wasn't as clear-cut as it may seem. Although you can get lots of resources through the UFO system, it's not as easy learning how to do this as in DDC or LoLK, and the patterns are brutal enough to give players who can't get lots of resources a hard time without enough practice first.
2. LoLK - Although its patterns are much harder than those in UFO, the fact that you can get 20+ lives offsets this just enough to leave LoLK at #2. Granted, you need a bit of practice with the patterns to know how to get so many lives, and bad resource management at any point, especially during the late-game, can make the difficulty really swingy at times.
3. EoSD - Relative lack of resources in an old-fashioned engine that's prone to throwing RNG bullshit in your face? No thanks. The fact that the RNG can also go easier on you at any time is what saves this from being any higher.
4. SA - The patterns have above-average difficulty overall, but memorization can alleviate this in a bunch of places. You also can't go too crazy with bomb-spamming during bosses or you'll end up making things even harder - managing bombs in general takes some thinking (though not an extraordinary amount) to really make it effective.
5. DDC - Although I think this game's patterns are the most consistently difficult among every Lunatic mode (even more than LoLK imo), gaining enough resources to bypass them is also by far the easiest among the upper half of games on this list.
6. PoFV - Honestly wasn't sure where to put PoFV because I still haven't played this game. I can imagine the Lunatic AI dragging things on being the primary source of difficulty though, while you can otherwise learn how to make dodging easier by managing bullet-cancelling.
7. IN - Down here partly because of process-of-elimination if anything. Lots of patterns can be memorized to ease the difficulty, but until then they might give you trouble. Some other attacks can also be pretty uncomfortable even with practice, but you get a fair amount of resources to deal with them.
8. PCB - Similar to TD, except managing Borders is a bit trickier and the patterns are more in line with what you'd expect on Lunatic. You do get more lives than in TD though.
9. MoF - You can literally bomb-spam through everything except perhaps VoWG, and managing bombs doesn't take nearly as much thinking as in other games (though I wouldn't say it takes no thinking).
10. TD - Despite having fewer lives than other games, you get so many other resources through Trances, and the difficulty basically stops climbing at Stage 3, making it more like Lunatic-lite compared to every other game.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: TresserT on May 25, 2016, 04:25:54 PM
1. UFO - ふねん1 said it perfectly.

2. LoLK - The difficulty progression is really different from UFO. Seiran/Ringo/Doremy are waaaaay harder than Nazrin/Kogasa/Ichirin, but Shou/Byakuren are at least as hard, possibly harder than Clownpiece/Junko. Unlike UFO resources are really easy to get since stages are almost 100% streaming.

3. DDC - The patterns are hard and super random, so memorization can't help you much. You get a ton of resources but you'll need every one (unless you're Marisa B lol). For the record, I hate this game as well.

4. PoFV - This game is laughably easy until Aya/Medicine, and even then it isn't that bad. This game only gets this spot because of Eiki. She's the hardest boss in the series.

5. SA- the patterns are somewhat difficult, but nothing as absurd as DDC/LoLK/UFO. The system is also simple, so you don't have to do any crazy tricks to get resources.

6. TD - Yoshika and Miko are random, difficult, and annoying. Nothing else is too big a threat. You get very limited lives and have to be good at shotgunning to get the max amount of trances. But you get so many trances it's fine.

7. EoSD - There are only a few difficult patterns (Books, Bury in Lake, Killing Doll, Scarlet Meister) but the game is almost as random as DDC, so you can easily die in unexpected places.

8. IN - There are no difficult patterns that come to mind except Kaguya's last spell. You get so many lives and bombs that it makes up for any mistakes you might make.

9. MoF- You get soooooooo many bombs, and they're sooooooooooo powerful. There are a few really challenging spells, but you can still just bomb-bomb-bomb spam like in normal/hard.

10. PCB - Everything is very doable. There a several spells where it's easy to make mistakes, and the patterns are probably harder than MoF/IN/EoSD but you get tons of lives, tons of bombs, and tons of borders to make up for it. Becomes way harder if you're trying to do any kind of challenge.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Easy Modo]
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 25, 2016, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: Failure McFailFace on May 03, 2016, 11:01:35 AM
1. LoLK
2. UFO
3. TD
4. SA
5. PoFV
6. MoF
7. PCB
8. IN
9. EoSD
10. DDC
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: ZM on May 25, 2016, 06:36:42 PM
Hmm. I'll just rate them based on the difficulty it is to clear them rather than LNBs/scoring and the like, since I'm lazy. But I'unno, they're all not that bad.

1. UFO - You REALLY need to get a grasp on the UFO system or you WILL have a rough time.
2. EoSD
3. TD
4. LoLK
5. DDC
6. SA
7. MoF
8. PCB
9. IN
10. PoFV - use medicine!111!11~!
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Mino ☆ on May 25, 2016, 08:48:15 PM
I'm rating this on LNN/LNNN difficulty because why not (I honestly don't think I could make an accurate scoring comparison since I lack experience in all game scoring systems)

1. LoLK - This game is really tough for something like an LNN. Stage 1 already starts off rough with Seiran's first spell. Stage 2 has some tough things like Ringo's second non and final spell. Stage 3 really ramps up the difficulty. Doremy is annoying with all of her nons really (And her laser spell!). This is the type of game where you would very rarely see stage 4 (When Gobou streamed it, he was almost always losing to stage 2 and resetting). Stage 4 lowers the difficulty and offers the player a breather (but don't underestimate Sagume's nons as they are kinda weird sometimes). Stage 5 brings the difficulty back up with Clownpiece. Her nons are dumb and weird. Her spells are thankfully mostly memo (although the second and third ones I find tough). Junko really makes this difficulty as she's just overall a beast. Her nonspells aren't trivial (except MAAAAYBE the first one but I've seen Gobou 1MNB the game with a death only to that non). Her second spell is just absurdly stupid (to the point where people do risky strats that involve staying in the center just to kill it faster). Her final spell is its own level of difficulty and having to gamble everything on that spell after going through the entire game of hell. No. This game is tough to LNN.
2. EoSD - This game's stage 1-2 are very trivial. Meiling has a few difficult things though, so don't underestimate her. Stage 4 is where the hell starts. The books are absurdly difficult for something you'd just see on a stage portion. They're very prone to killing and the game can easily become a reset fest where you just keep playing until stage 4 and reset, never making it past. If you DO get past books, you then have to deal with Patchouli. Unless you're playing ReimuA, you're gonna have to deal with Megalith. Stage 5's stage portion is very easy, but Sakuya is pretty tough. Her nons are insane and Killing Doll is just deathworthy. Finally, stage 6 peaks the difficulty with hard things even in the midboss (Meek). Remilia is a very wall-tastic boss with crazy RNG and many, many chances to die. (Yay VI/SM/SG trio!)
3. UFO - Slightly easier than EoSD but has a harder early game IMO. Kogasa is actually threatening unlike Cirno. Stage 3 has weird spam sections. Ichirin is at least easier than Meiling although her first spell is annoying (dies really quick with ReimuA). Stage 4 is much easier than EoSD's. The stage portion only has one tricky section (ying yang spam before the endstage). Murasa is pretty tricky with stupid things like Sinkable Vortex, final non (Vortex bullets will most of the time overlap), and Ghost Ships Port (ZM's arch-nemesis). Stage 5 is where the real difficulty begins. With stupid things like GT, Shou, and Byakuren, this game's end game is very similar to EoSD's. I would still say UFO is slightly easier because it's definitely easier to make it to stage 5 NMNB than it is in EoSD. And Remilia's probably slightly harder than Byakuren.
4. PoFV - Unfortunately this game has to be placed on the list somewhere even though something like LNN would never be feasible (Does it even include no hit or just no round losing?). Technically, if you aren't some broken shot, this would be the hardest probably, since Eiki's timer is effectively endless. I honestly don't know where to put this so I'll placeholder it here.
5. IN - Assuming FinalB (although tbh I still find Eirin harder for some reason). Nothing early game is that threatening (as long as you know how to kill Mystia's first spell to manipulate her positioning at the start of the second non). Stage 4 has some annoying things, and stage 5 has Tei and Remote Rabbit. Stage 6 has most of the difficulty.
6. SA - Probably not that different than IN in terms of difficulty. Again, stages 1-3 are trivial. Satori is annoying though. Cat Walk is mega hard and you still can't underestimate things like Needle of Yore/Orin last spell. At least stage 6 is mostly light but Utsuho's first two spells are a pain.
7. DDC - Very feasible with SakuyaA/ReimuA yet it still has its hard moments. If you don't know how to properly do Kagerou (how to misdirect midboss, handle her first and third spells), you're not gonna make it. Benben also cannot be underestimated as her last two attacks are deadly (Yatsuhashi is irrelevant since no one will ever get LNN with a B-shot, although Miduki came close). Seija is the most difficult boss IMO as she's got some really annoying gimmicks. At least stage 6 is rather light to top things off.
8. MoF - Urghhhhh. It's not supposed to be THAT hard yet I'm still struggling with it. Stages 1-3 are mildly difficult with some hard moments. Stage 4 has most of the difficulty. Stage 5 is a natural breather. Stage 6 is moderately difficult for a stage 6. VoWG is mega hard IMO and you gotta be a superplayer to cap it consistently (dont' judge I lost 7 runs to this damn thing!)  I still put DDC above this game even though I got DDC. Thing is. I think DDC has a lot more BS'y RNG patterns and has more potentials to die in late game than MoF. While MoF takes a break in stage 5 before the final rush in stage 6, DDC never stops being hard from Kagerou onwards (in terms of bosses). Thus DDC is kind of an adrenaline rush all the way through while MoF is kind of singled out into two stages.
9. PCB - One of the more relaxing LNNNs. It took me quite a long time to get this but I wasn't as experienced back then so something like this was still pretty crazy to me. Mostly everything can be done consistently until Prismrivers. The Prismriver opening nons can be scary if you're Reimu or Sakuya. (Marisa gets the easy ones). Prismriver final is annoying. Youmu has some pretty hard things too (first and final spell). Stage 6 spam makes this game's LNNN a lot more troublesome than it should be. Yuyuko is at least the easiest final boss for survival (although don't underestimate her penultimate. I lost two runs to that!)
10. TD - The easiest LNNN in my opinion. It's not trivial, but it's probably the easiest game to do if you wanted an LNNN under your belt. It's difficulty is generally light. The early game is steady although there are a few rough patches. Kyouko's nons, fortunately, can be memorized. Her last spell is annoying though. Yoshika's second spell is also slightly troublesome. If you want full spell, that's also a thing, because then you have to deal with her final spell. Stage 4 onward is where the difficulty ramps up. Except this stage 4 isn't really too bad. Seiga's midboss non is slightly troublesome, but the spam section after the midboss isn't too threatening (nothing like PCB stage 6 spam or the UFO spams). Seiga is very doable if you know how to cheese her 2nd nonspell. The only threatening thing is her opener (sometimes) and Tongling Yoshika (which can be routed). The stage 5 end section is kind of annoying as it can be wall-y at times. Futo's first spell is very difficult but overall she's not THAT hard of a stage 5 boss. Miko has probably the majority of the difficulty in this game, if only because her fight is so long (and her nons are... weird). Thankfully, her attacks usually die quickly (bar her penultimate).
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Choco Beam on May 25, 2016, 11:38:44 PM
1. UFO
2. EoSD
3. PCB
4. IN
5. SA
6. MoF
7. PoFV
8. LoLK
9. DDC
10. TD
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Mero on May 25, 2016, 11:50:59 PM
Going from my No Bomb experience
1. LoLK
2. UFO
3. EoSD
4. DDC
5. SA
6. PoFV
7. IN
8. PCB
9. TD
10. MoF

So... LoLK, this game is hard and stupid. You get plenty of lives, but it has many patterns where the skill the matters the most is luck (see: Doremy's opener), It also has difficulty all over the place (Seiran's 1st spell is really hard for stage 1, and one of the easiest boss patterns in the game is on Junko's fight), which can be disorienting. That works in PD mode, where you literally can only lose by giving up, but in Legacy it's just... no. Also, Reimu is the only character in the game (I mean, Sanae's not bad, but her best attribute are her bombs and she doesn't have much on Reimu without them).

Everybody knows why UFO is difficult. Even if you know the UFO system, the very random and dense patterns may just make it impossible to get resources sometimes, and Shou and Byakuren are very hard.

EoSD... I think I've just had good luck with this one, I've never found it to be of the level people describe it. However, I've seen what this game can do and give trouble to even the best players, so I know this game knows how to kick your ass if it feels like it.

DDC has difficult patterns, but stages are fairly easy to learn, so you can rack up lives for the difficult bosses that are Kagerou, Benben/Yatsu and Seija. I don't find Sukuna that hard, but then again, ReimuA doesn't have to deal with half of her stuff.

SA is moderately difficult, it's mostly memorization, the patterns are pretty dense so you still have to be careful. The good thing about this game's power system is that doing NB also means you're at full power for the whole game

PoFV picks up really fast on Lunatic, and some characters just cannot beat opponents reliably. Then there is Aya, whose EX bullets can actually outspeed the AI reaction, Medicine who slows it down to hell, and opponents don't seem to register Eiki's giant laser as a threat and can literally run right into it. Characters like Reimu, Marisa and Reisen make for a decently challenging run on average.

IN is not that hard, and knowing how to handle familiars can help you dodge less from certain sections. Playing with Magic or Scarlet team can be troublesome, as Reimu is a much harder boss than Marisa. For Finals, I dunno, a lot of people say Kaguya is one of the hardest final bosses, but I very much prefer to fight her than Eirin...

PCB is also not that hard, and shots like MarisaA and ReimuB hardly lose anything from not having bombs. Borders are a really nice safety net if you don't mind them breaking, which is very likely on stuff like Youmu's 1st spell and the Spam. Yuyuko is an easy boss and every patterns starts you with a border, so not difficult

If you don't forfeit your trance, TD is hands down the easiest, it has mostly easy patterns and you can skip the hard ones with trance. If you go the extra mile for NT though, it jumps up a bit, because your resources are very limited and you have to deal with stuff you won't like, like Futo's first or Miko's penultimate.

MoF is quite easy to LNB. Like SA, going for NB means you'll have full power the whole game. Your first difficult pattern will likely be Nitori's HydroCamo, but since stages 1 and 2 are so simple you can reset and get back really fast. Momiji/Walls can be bad and PWG is no joke, but stage 5 is not very difficult and outside of VoWG, Kanako is one of the easiest (if not the easiest) final bosses in Touhou
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: ZoomyTsugumi on May 26, 2016, 04:18:51 AM
1. EoSD - RNG hell also the controls feel so bad after playing solely second gen windows 2hu for a long time.
2. PCB - I can't play this game well at all due to aforementioned control issues here. Also this game has micrododging from really early on which is something I suck at majorly.
3. LoLK - I suck at this one cos I always feel compelled to not bomb so much which is really stupid considering the mechanics basically encourage bombing.
4. UFO - Game becomes easy easy when you use a decent char and can resource your way to the end. Just requires beating stage 3 with a sufficient amount of lives and the rest is basically guaranteed. However it's still high up cos of the massive amount of difficulty it had before I got good enough to resource abuse my way through.
5. TD - I am accident prone and low resources are the death of me. This game was probably my first Lunatic 1cc but I've never 1cced it since then (and that was at least 4 years ago).
6. PoFV - RNG but also more abusable than EoSD. Shiki is the worst part by far and am prone to using a continue, but I rate this difficulty wise different to the other games due to the way the game works alone.
7. DDC - Getting good PoC grabs is basically what makes a 1cc for me, I'm still not that consistent but it's not tooo bad with Reimu A/SakuyA.
8. SA - I'm pretty good at consistently beating this with Reimu shottypes, Marisa is a different beast, but still, the game isn't tooooo bad and it's my favourite so I've played it a ton.
9. IN - Just practice good cancel timing on stages and you literally have both stages figured out and also near guaranteed time requirements obtained for every single run. Bosses can be bomb spammed if you really need to but spell practice makes it so easy. I can beat this with anyone (even solo alice) so it's definitely one of the easier ones for me.
10. MoF - bombs, nuff said. Also I'm soooo close to a perfect Kanako fight it's crazy.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on May 26, 2016, 07:09:56 AM
*pops in out of nowhere*

Coming in with my shitty opinions :P

Uh, I'll do this for patterns only. I feel this would get the best average across playstyles - scoring, bombs allowed, no bombs, et cetera.

Honorable mention/Unofficial number 1. PoDD - Just all around insane. Unforgiving, extremely fast, hard right from the start. Good luck if you're using Chiyuri and not named "ZIL".

Effective number 1 because no PC 98 games pls don't shoot me: LoLK - Do I really need to say anything? the difficulty is all over the place. Sagume is a breather, but shouldn't be underestimated, Ringo and Doremy are hell for stage two and three, and then you have Clownpiss and Junko to finish you off.
2. UFO - A lot of very random stage portions, UFO system can be annoying at times, and Shou and Byakuren are very hard.
3. DDC - There's a lot of very hard patterns here. You get a lot of resources, but good luck if you're going for an LNN or an LNB. (Also, Seija.)
4. SA - Has some hard parts and easy parts. I really don't get why others rate this game so low, but oh well. I guess it's because I barely play SA?
5. PoFV - Abusable, but the patterns can be quite hard. Eiki is by far the hardest part... another game I barely play. Can't even remember how the mechanics work off the top of my head  :derp:
6. IN - Mystia has two hard attacks early on, and Keine has some harder attacks, but overall early game isn't that hard. Neither is Reisen, but she has some legit attacks, too. But Marisa/Reimu and Kaguya more than make up for that... this is definitely the easiest game to lunatic 1cc, but this game has consistently suprisingly difficult patterns.
7. MoF - Sort of a toughie between this and EoSD. Aya and Kanako are both very hard for me, especially VoWG, PWG and Yamato Torus, but the rest of the game isn't that bad in terms of difficulty. Stage 1 is certaintly harder than in EoSD, but it isn't that bad. On the otherhand, you get a LOT of resources.
8. EoSD - This game has some tough patterns. It's easy early on, but Sakuya is brutal, so is the books, and Patchy is fairly difficult with most shot-types, and just downright evil with MarisaA. Remi's fight is a juxtaposition of very easy/doable attacks (Nonspells, sort of spellcard 1/2, VI is in the middle - entirely dependent on luck), but when she gets serious, boy does her attacks pack a punch. But even Meister and Gensokyo aren't that bad in my opinion. Overall though, unless you're going for an LNN or LNB, it isn't that bad. (god help you if you are though)
This would be a fair bit higher in a difficulty list of just 1cc-ing: you get less resources than later games. Maybe the fact I've played this game's lunatic a ton is why I put it so low?
9. PCB - Easy patterns, helpful system, lots of resources. This game is just all around easy. Nothing else to say, honestly. Though, Alice is evil. This is probably harder than some of the other games to LNBNBB/LNMNBNBB.
10. TD - Very easy patterns, but few resources. But the trance system can help you get through - overall, very easy. Kyouko is hard though, and this game has IMO an annoying early game. Even so, the main barrier to 1ccing is how much of a chore the early game is to play :V

So, uh, yes. My list. Here you go and all that shin-digs.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Sakurei on May 26, 2016, 03:21:15 PM
A fair number of people cleared PoDD with Chiyuri, not only Zil. That of course includes people in this forum. It only becomes really problematic to clear if you try to score as well but why take that into consideration if you don't do it for other games. Anyway, I don't play hard like ever so I ignored last week but I used to play lunatic at least. Not to mention Ellen is arguably harder than Chiyuri to clear with.

1. PoFV: Same as before. Eiki is essentially impossible to beat. Try not to die because she won't. The bullets are faster now than they were on normal, too. Scary game.

2. PCB: It's very approachable and easy to get into but may be the hardest game to get good at in the series. The game has been pushed beyond what was thought possible some years ago and there is still room for improvement in even the best runs there are right now. An incredibly deep and complicated game.

3. EoSD: Simply brutal. More often than not, the RNG will really screw you over and the times it does not, you still have to face some ridiculously difficult stuff and have to do some really annoying things. EoSD may be the most cruel Touhou game.

4. UFO: I don't like this game very much and that's probably well known but it is undoubtedly very hard. Byakuren and Shou are both very difficult bosses late into the game and Ichirin has to have the patterns with the worst feel overall in the series. Very hard, very annoying and you have to do them. Not to mention just learning a route in the first place might or might not be difficult.

5. LoLK: I'm not sure this is the right place but it probably is. You still get 25 lives but you can't just spend them all on the final boss. Still, a lot of it seems very doable and unless you die in a really bad place, you should be fine even with an accident or two.

6. DDC: Might be slightly easier than LoLK, might be slightly more difficult. Probably the former which is why it's 6th and not 5th for me. Stage 3 is hard and so is stage 5. Stage 4 seems perfectly doable even though the boss is hard regardless of your shot.

7. SA: Very VERY annoying early game. SA's stage 1 has to be the worst one in the series. Fortunately the late game is significantly easier than in most other games. Of course nerves aren't pleasant on Okuu but at least she's no Remilia by any stretch of the imagination.

8. IN: I have a hard time placing IN because it's the game I play most. Is it easy, is it hard? I don't know. The games I listed until now all give me the impression that they're either just flat out harder or at least way more annoying to play. IN also strongly depends on your level, I think. High level play might be in the top 5, but low level might as well be below TD.

9. MoF: I've seen really good players struggle with it. But of course that might just be because their goals are difficult to reach. But aside from stage 4 (which looks really ball busting), it never struck me as super difficult. Naturally, this is because subtleties are lost on me but the same can be said for every game :^)

10: TD: I can't not think of this as the easiest game for some reason even though I know it is still quite difficult. I'm a bad person towards everyone who plays this. Sorry.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: TableCloth on May 27, 2016, 09:44:38 AM
Oh God I hate this difficulty.

1. UFO - TOO. FUCKING. DIFFICULT. Them stage patterns can snap you easily when you're too greedy, and those boss will simply annihilate you when you are running low of resources.

2. LoLK - With my amount of skill, even passing Seiran's midboss spell using Reisen (without bomb, of course) requires nortorious microtapping and one hella good luck. Not to mention those early stages are brutal aside for stage 2. After that, it's just practice and a lot of 'praying that dem bosses don't get too low'.

3. SA - INTENZ PATTUHRN. Really, with those punishing resource system, this game would've been the hardest if not for the difficulty drop in Stage 6. Yuugi and the entire Stage 4 are hellish already, and Stage 5 is just... no. Goddammit Orin.

4. DDC - Why does almost every 2nd & 3rd gen Windows Touhou shmup always have difficult early stages!? Luckily, despite those annoyingly random patterns, there's a lot of resource you can easily gain (even more with Marisa B lol). Strangely enough, I noticed that some of the later stages patterns are no different than the Normal or Hard counterpart, especially Shinmyoumaru's Spellcards.

5. PoFV - Randomness. And difficult AI.

6. EoSD - Again, randomness. Doing this in max rank would make it way harder than DDC because some of those patterns in stage 5 are almost impossible to do at max rank, but then it become trivial even if you bomb only once. Sakuya doesn't have much of difficulty leap. The only bosses with over-the-top difficulty are Patchouli and Remilia.

7. PCB - This game is meh on Lunatic. While the bosses in the earlier stages get increasingly difficult, Yuyuko didn't even get harder, and Youmu is just... Youmu. It doesn't help that the Border system trivialize some patterns.

8. IN - Surprisingly enough, this one is actually quite tough from Keine onward. Also, stage 5 is quite fun. Other than that, just prepare for Eirin's hard ass-kicking Spellcards.

9. TD - Not much of a difficulty leap, other than some parts in the earlier stages. Again, resources are scarce, but it might get rather problematic on Miko (her penultimate spell goddammit)

10. MoF - Lotsa bombah. I don't play this in Lunatic much, but I do remember that Nitori get rather difficult with her 1st boss spell. Aya and Sanae also get a bit harder, but Kanako is the main entertainer here.

By the way, dem Stage 5 are all fun aside for PoFV.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Monarda on May 27, 2016, 01:22:56 PM
Even though i have yet to truly touch Hard and Lunatic, this is really nice to read, i'm eager to see the Extras section.

Not that my opinion would matter much.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Giratina93 on May 27, 2016, 07:28:13 PM
My experience is mostly limited to what I have seen of most Lunatic playthroughs of the Windows games from top players, but here's my opinion (Based on 1CC run):

1. UFO. Yeah, alot of people have already said why Lunatic UFO is BS. The UFO mechanic+lots and lots of hellish bullet patterns= HELL. Trying to get all the lives and bombs you need in the first 3 stages is hard enough (Thanks Kogasa and Ichirin) but once you get to Murasa, all your lives and bombs just melt away until either Shou or Byakuren obliterates you. This is truly suffering.

2. SA. Thankfully, there's no gathering UFO's, but the difficulty is still obscene. Parsee can catch you off guard as bad, or even worse than Kogasa, and stages 4 and especially 5 WILL make you rage, plus every time you bomb, you get weaker, which only makes things worse. Utsuho isn't as hard as the likes of Junko and Byakuren, but what comes before is still absolute hell, and Utsuho isn't a pushover herself.

3. LoLK. You got alot of lives to work with, and stage 4 is something of a breather, but good god can things get asinine real fast, Clownpiece and Junko are the real big offenders, and you will need all of those lives and bombs to survive. Thankfully, some shot types make LoLK less painful to deal with, but you still need to be careful.

4.  EOSD. Unable to see hitbox without patch+RNG walls of DIE+ the absolute hell that is Sakuya: NOT FUN. to make up for it, stages 1-3 are a breeze for the most part.

5. DDC. While it is technically harder than SA based on bullet patterns and OH MY GOD WTFness of it all, the difficulty is offset by the dozens of lives you can get with smart streaming, and certain shot types trivialize most of the adventure. Still stage 3 and stage 5 can be real pains to deal with (Goddamn wolf)

6. PoFV. For most characters, this is the pinnacle of suffering on Lunatic. fighting Eiki especially is an uphill climb unrivaled by anything in the Windows series. However, certain characters trivialize the game to the point of Lunatic being easier than the above games, such as Aya, Medicine, and Eiki herself, thanks to their properties. Still very hard, but not impossible.

7. MoF. Most of MoF is very easy, with stages 1-3, and stage 5 being relative cake walks compared to what most Lunatics have to offer. Stage 4 with Aya? Yeah, enjoy that time out card and PRAY, as well as fast non spells up the wazzo, and Stage 6 is THE biggest reason why I rank this game higher than the below ones for difficulty: Virtue of Wind God, which I consider one of, if not THE hardest spell in the series to capture, let alone survive against. It's not uncommon to go from 3 or 4 lives to NO LIVES, JUST ONE BOMB because of how EVIL VoWG is.

8: PCB. It's not an easy game by any means, but I've never really seen anyone have that much difficulty with PCB's lunatic mode. stages 1-3 are pretty easy for the most part, stage 4 itself is way too long and filled with trial and error BS, but the Prismriver sisters aren't too bad depending on who you use, and Youmu is probably the hardest boss in the game, and even then, she's not too bad. Yuyuko's spells are mostly slow and meant to lull you into a false sense of security, but keeping alert negates most of those, bar her final time out spell.

9. IN. Team Reimu/Yukari cheese this game to oblivion. Seriously, the only real challenge is stage 4 and some minor annoyances in stage 6, but for the most part, it's easier than what is above. CATCHING all the spellcards, though... is a different matter, especially against Kaguya.

10. TD. even with the early game being somewhat challenging, it's not very bad. once you get past Seiga, it's relatively smooth sailing, with Futo and Miko being pushovers compared to how stage 5 and 6 Lunatic bosses usually are.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Hainiryuun on May 28, 2016, 02:11:53 PM
1. UFO - HAHAHAHA....haha...ha.... pls no. Hope you got good routes or get bent, pretty much.

2 . SA - Please save me from Orin. Lack of good bombs also kills me.

3. LoLK - First few stages aren't that bad, imo, but the ramp in difficulty to stage 5/6 is just insane.

4. TD - My strat of 1CCing any lunatic is usually get infinite resources in stages 1-3 and then bomb my way through 4-6. Lack of resources kills me and I'm terrible at collecting souls.

5. MoF - Bombing everything doesn't work so well on Lunatic...

6. DDC - Difficult bullet dodging wise, but you can just get so many resources that it doesn't matter. Plus Marisa B(roken) and Sakuya A are OP.

7. EOSD - It's just vanilla bullet dodging with decent amount of resources.

8. PoFV - Marisa makes this super easy. Cruise through 1-6. Lose to Aya once, Lose to Komachi once, hope the beat Shikieiki before she kills you like 4 times.

9. PCB - Run Marisa and border break ALL the things. Super easy.

10. IN - Everything, period, in IN is a joke with boarder team.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Sen on May 31, 2016, 05:54:59 PM
Can't wait for Extra!

1 - PoFV - if for no other reason than the game is literally unbeatable on Lunatic. You don't "win" PoFV; the AI allows you to win after x amount of time. The difficulty spikes once you reach Aya/Medicine (Aya is much more manageable, though), and Shikieiki EX attacks are made of despair and hopelessness. As much as I adore PoFV, it's the only game where Lunatic has actually pissed me off. After so much bullshit, it's just not fun.

2 - UFO - patterns are incredibly dense, but you still have to weave through them to find your UFOs. Few things are more frustrating than the Green UFO turning Blue because you were trying to get around a wave of bullets, and the fact that you can't get resources back during boss fights (and it's extremely difficult to regain an option after taking a hit during a boss) really ups the difficulty. Shou's and Byakuren's nonspells are an absolute nightmare, and I have forever given up hope of capturing Murasa's third card.

3 - LoLK - goodness gracious. All the lives in the world, but good luck holding onto them. The difficulty in LoLK is all over the place-- Doremy and Clownpiece's nonspells are fucking stupid, and Junko is in a league of her own, but Sagume is a joke compared to the rest of the game, and Stage 5's stage portion is pretty simple overall. The stages feel like a CAVE game.

4 - EoSD - your performance on EoSD Lunatic is heavily RNG-dependent. The game is pretty consistent up until Stage 4, but all bets are off once the books come out. From there, you have the books, Patchouli (as a MarisaA player, Sylphae Horn High Level is one of the most frustrating cards in the series), Stage 5 fairy spam, Sakuya's awkward knife bullets, and everything Remilia throws at you. The random nature of the bullets means you can get walled in at any time, and the low amount of resources means you're less likely to have bombs necessary to survive. 

5 - SA - some of the most insane patterns in the series here, and with the weakest bombs in any Touhou game, there's no getting around them. Thankfully, most of SA can be memorized, but you still have to deal with things like Cat Walk, popcorn fairies in Stage 5, Double Black Death Butterfly if you're playing as ReimuA (and really, why would you ever play as anyone else), and the claustrophobic nature of Utsuho's stars. I will say that Drake's SA boss rush patch on Lunatic is some of the most fun I've had in a Touhou game in a while, though.

6 - DDC - I think DDC has the largest jump in difficulty from Hard to Lunatic, starting with Kagerou and ramping up as the game goes on. The stages are random enough that you have to truly be able to dodge, rather than just memorize your way through, and getting up to the PoC for all the resources isn't nearly as easy as on Normal or Hard. Both Stage 4 bosses are incredibly difficult, Seija's flipping mechanic adds another level of insanity to an already difficult fight, and Shinmyoumaru's size manipulation combined with the wonky bullets really messes with your perception.

7 - TD - the extremely low amount of resources (for a Touhou game) in TD means you have to get really good at using your Trances, otherwise you'll fall as early as Kyouko's stupid fucking spellcards. The patterns aren't as bad overall as the other games, so resource management becomes the biggest challenge.

8 - IN - the patterns here are very dense, but can be memorized for the most part, and the game is generous enough with lives, deathbomb timers, and strong bombs that it's manageable. The spike in difficulty between Reisen and Kaguya always throws me off.

9 - PCB - the first game I 1cc'd on Lunatic, so I may be biased, but with the memorization-heavy nature of PCB, generous lives, and Supernatural Borders, it's one of the more manageable Lunatics.

10 - MoF - the patterns are difficult, but the sheer power of bombs hugely offsets this. You still have to deal with shit like the Stage 4 maze and garbage like Exteeeeeeending Arm or Aya's survival card, but it's definitely the most manageable. It's a shame MoF doesn't have grazing, the patterns would really lend themselves to supergrazing in any other game.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Nameschonvergeben on June 01, 2016, 06:42:47 AM
Quote from: Hainiryuun on May 28, 2016, 02:11:53 PM
10. IN - Everything, period, in IN is a joke with boarder team.
post you are scores to be h
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on June 01, 2016, 12:34:02 PM
The results for Lunatic Mode are finally out!

1. UFO - 1.80
2. LoLK - 2.87
3. EoSD - 4.47
4. SA - 4.53
5. PoFV - 5.27
6. DDC - 5.53
7. PCB - 7.27
8. TD - 7.53
9. IN - 7.60
10. MoF - 8.13

FINALLY A WEEK WITHOUT A SINGLE TIE!
And I also got result for the overall main game difficulty!

OVERALL HARDEST TOUHOU MAIN GAME: UFO - 2.13
OVERALL EASIEST TOUHOU MAIN GAME: IN - 8.36

Now, now. It's still now over yet. Now we're rating Extra stages!
...But I don't feel like rating those now, so I'll rank them later. :V As for everyone else, feel free to rank the Extras.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: ZoomyTsugumi on June 01, 2016, 01:38:24 PM
1. LoLK - still not really consistent at this
2. DDC - still kinda inconsistent here too
3. EoSD - somewhat worse at this than most other extra stages
4. MoF - yes bombspam makes things easy but the second card makes me sooo nervous
5. TD - sort of middle ground here I guess
6. UFO - Kogasa is the only nervewracking thing about this
7. SA - more intimidating than it actually is, but once you get the gimmicks down its so easy
8. PCB  - easy easy easy
9. IN - Favourite EX fight also happens to be the easiest

If we're counting PoFV in this, put it at the top. otherwise here's the list.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Monarda on June 01, 2016, 01:59:40 PM
Just a question, about games with a Phantasm Stage like PCB, how do we proceed ? Do we rate only Extra, only Phantasm or both and take in account the jump in difficulty they have between them ?
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: TresserT on June 01, 2016, 02:38:36 PM
I'll include Phantasm but leave out Phantasmagoria.

The top 3 are all really close.

1. DDC- Raiko has a lot of random, reaction-dodging based patterns, which is abnormal for an extra stage. Extras are usually very memo-heavy. While the only thing that's ridiculously hard is "Joruri World", Raiko as a whole is consistently difficult. The stage is a breeze, though.

2. LoLK- The stage, the midboss, and most of the boss fight are all really easy. Hecatia and Junko have a few nons that are way beyond anything Raiko does, plus "Lunatic Impact". Raiko wins, though, because the rest of Hecatia's spells are laughably easy.

3. EoSD- The patterns aren't super dense, but there is quite a lot of random stuff going on so you have the chance of getting walled. The patterns are definitely easier than DDC or LoLK (though waaaay harder than TD), but the fact that you only get 4 lives makes this extra about as difficult as the top 2.

4. TD- There isn't much to say here. The stage isn't bad. Mamizou doesn't have any extremely difficult attacks, but most take some figuring out and at least a decent amount of skill. Difficulty jumps up if you play as Youmu, but even then isn't as hard as EoSD.

5. UFO- The stage portion is by far the hardest extra stage in the series (bar maybe GFW). Kogasa isn't so much hard as much as annoying. Clip death hell. However, Nue is a breeze so long as you keep your power up. Killing the UFOs can be a pain if your power drops below 4, though. Especially on Green UFO invasion.

6. PCB Phantasm- Nothing is extremely hard. You have to memorize DBF which is annoying, but it's just memorization. Pretty much everything else is about routing or foguring out the trick with some random spam mixed in, but it's sparse enough to not be a problem.

7. SA- The only extra I've NMNBd. Almost everything is either easy or can be routed. This is an extra where you just have to play it over and over until you know what to do.

8. IN- Has quite a few difficult spells, such as the last nonspell, Woo, and Fujiyama Volcano, but like Hecatia most of the fight is really easy. IN's hour long death bomb timer also trivializes clearing the stage, so it's only hard if you want to capture those patterns.

9. MoF- The stage portion is among the harder ones, but Suwako is so easy this still gets 9th place. Every pattern is either memorization, figuring out the trick, or clip death hell, except for Froggy Braves the Elements and Suwa War. MoF's infinite bombs doesn't actually help much.

10. PCB Extra- This takes Yukari, but makes every pattern either even sparser, or changes it from reaction dodging to memorization. This is the easy mode equivalent to Phantasm in every way. The one exception is Charming Siege, which has a very restricted space and has a high chance of walling you (it's also one of my favorite spells in the series).
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Mero on June 01, 2016, 04:03:29 PM
Quote from: Nameschonvergeben on June 01, 2016, 06:42:47 AM
post you are scores to be h

Honest question, how difficult is to score with Border, compared to the other teams?
I'd imagine not much with how simple and relatively strong they are
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on June 01, 2016, 04:43:10 PM
Quote from: Starlighthawk on June 01, 2016, 01:59:40 PM
Just a question, about games with a Phantasm Stage like PCB, how do we proceed ? Do we rate only Extra, only Phantasm or both and take in account the jump in difficulty they have between them ?

Oh yes, I did forget about that, didn't I?
Rank PCB based on the PHANTASM stage, not the normal Extra stage. (PCB's Extra is just an easy version of Phantasm with some slight changes.)
Second, I really approve of not putting PoFV anywhere on the list.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: ふねん1 on June 01, 2016, 06:40:00 PM
All the Extra Stages are actually fairly close imo, at least compared to Lunatic, so ordering these might come down more to how comfortable you are with them. Here's my take at any rate.

1. LoLK - I would probably rate this lower if I spent more time to get used to her various "Earth" attacks (the blue spells and nonspells) and "Moon" spells, but most of her and Junko's other stuff otherwise isn't too bad. Junko's nonspells might throw off anyone who's not a Lunatic player though. The stage portion also isn't too crazy, though Doremy's first two spells are a bit of a step up.
2. EoSD - More so because some things behave weirdly in this game's old engine, and because you don't have many resources. Thankfully a bunch (though not all) of Flandre's spells become easier with practice.
3. DDC - This probably would be #1 if you couldn't get so many resources, which is really the exception to the norm for Extra Stages. Some of Raiko's attacks still remain tricky even with practice (and with Spell Practice to help out too), though the stage portion isn't much harder than most others, Joururi World aside.
4. SA - This is where the ranking starts getting really murky. While SA Extra is still subject to the usual memo like in others, the patterns in this one punish you more than usual for not knowing them, which is why I rank it in the upper half of the list.
5. UFO - Not as many opportunities to build up resources with UFOs as in the main game, but perhaps not worrying about UFOs could also make the stage portion more comfortable, so there's a balance there. Nue's attacks are almost consistently middle-of-the-road in difficulty, with a few easy nonspells and trickier spells near the end being the only exceptions.
6. PCB - I put Phantasm down here because just going through Extra is already a good introduction to how most stuff in the former works, so you won't need as much practice with this one. Getting lots of borders helps too.
7. IN - Like with the rest of the game, this Extra is particularly prone to memorization. Pretty much the entire stage portion and most of Mokou's spells fall into that category, but any attacks that don't, especially her last three nonspells, save this from being the easiest overall Extra.
8. TD - Any lack of life or bomb resources isn't as prominent here since Extra Stages usually have fewer of those. Only a handful of Mamizou's spells are tricky even with Spell Practice to help you out, but everything else can be mastered fairly quickly.
9. MoF -  Originally I would've considered putting TD or IN here, but after thinking about it, MoF doesn't even stand up to those two. Even without Spell Practice, the tricks to all the Spell Cards can be figured out pretty easily (save for Froggy Braves the Elements and Suwa War), and the stage portion isn't any harder than IN or TD's.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Sakurei on June 01, 2016, 07:04:19 PM
PCB extra and Phantasm only look quite similar. In reality, they play very differently but whatever.

1. PCB: Phantasm is definitely the hardest extra stage. Precise timing, positioning and movement in the stage portion (including the mid boss) and a long boss fight with a lot of room for error, especially since some spells are very random (3rd) or just incredibly difficut (8th). Fortunately the non spells aren't too bad, generally. The finish is a pretty tough gauntlet, especially if the penultimate doesn't cooperate with the safe spot.
2. LoLK: This isn't really right because Both GFW (2nd) and PCB extra (3rd) are harder than this by a long shot. The reason I place this here is because Kisara is pretty good and he struggles with it a fair bit. The non spells seem pretty hard.
3. IN: Probably, at least. Difficult timings in the stage portion and some of the spells are quite difficult to do well. In addition there is a somewhat difficult finish with the final non, Hourai Doll and Imperishable Shooting.
4. EoSD: It's EoSD so the last spell has to be a dick. Laevantein looks impossible tbh and kagome kagome looks like hell too. Fortunately Flandre has a good number of easy spells and her non spells are all pretty easy too.
5. TD: Some things looks really hard, especially with Youmu. Really looks like RNG could just kill you really easy on some spells. I guess just get lucky.
6. UFO: Crazy stage portion. Fairly difficult and Kogasa is just luck but Nue is uneventful and fairly boring so it's not higher up.
7. DDC: figuring out a good balance between resource spending and capturing stuff may be difficult and I can see some 2.0s being annoying but it's really not that bad.
8. SA: Hella boring, man. I also don't think this extra had anything that I thought looked particularly difficult. Not that I want to try, I don't need help falling asleep just yet.
9. MoF: Most likely the easiest. Suwako's only difficult attack to not die on is Suwa Wars. Speedkills may be risky but they're never going to be riskier than graze heavy patterns unless it's on the level of a spell of Greatest Treasure but Suwako doesn't have anything like that.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Monarda on June 01, 2016, 07:50:41 PM
Unofficial Rating due to only being about EoSD and PCB Extras, please do not use this when ranking the places:

Let's start with EoSD:
As said before it has a annoying amount of RNG, and you will have to use well your few lives and use safe bombing strats, a newcomer will also likely hit some minor walls such as Royal Flare (unless they use Marisa A, then lol) and major walls such as the pain Maze of Love can be for first-timers (The way i dealt with it was doing the first counterclock cycle and then enduring the clockwise cycle in the bottom with the help of a bomb, since i don't play for score.), patterns are pretty simple but still make you stay on your toes so you don't pay a hefty price, overall it's a simple yet tough challenge.

PCB goes here:
PCB`s Phantasm patterns are harder and more annoying to learn, however there is a great difference in resource availability, compensating for said patterns, having 3-ish Survival Spellcards in the end phase, these cards will become a major pain for newcomers, not considering the stage and how you gotta do your routes, i still have trouble with it because i`m a stubborn averager that refuses to watch Replays to learn tricks and wants to learn them the hard way, i can`t really say much on this since i have yet to get it done, although i did get Extra done, but there are some things i noticed that for me ended up being easier in Phantasm than in Ran Extra, the most iconic being the Second Spellcard of the boss, eh, i really can`t say much, this is just to put up how a averager sees stuff, so....

Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Choco Beam on June 02, 2016, 12:23:06 AM
Quote from: GMK on June 01, 2016, 04:03:29 PM
Honest question, how difficult is to score with Border, compared to the other teams?
I'd imagine not much with how simple and relatively strong they are

Easier to learn and do scoring stuff but scores lower. You might still need to spend a few hundred hours to get use to the timings and grazes with them though.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Uruwi on June 02, 2016, 01:27:06 AM
M'kay, extra, that's going to have a completely different order than Normal.

1. SA (1st spell)
2. PoFV (at the highest, stage 3 or 4)
3 - 4. UFO and MoF (5th spell without exploiting MarisaBugged, though I did clear it with MarisaBugged)
5. PCB (6th spell) - the most troubling part is Princess Tenko.
6 - 7. EoSD and LoLK (7th spell)
8. TD (last spell) - this is also one of the most frustrating stages.
9. DDC (cleared)
10. IN (cleared)
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: FleetingGaze on June 02, 2016, 04:52:29 AM
I can finally participate! I haven't seriously played PoFV, so that would have screwed up my votes. GFW had a similar extra to the main series, so I'd put it in between EoSD and DDC. (If we count it.)

I had to do this list in reverse, because LoLK offsets everything. I wish I could put IN, MoF and PCB on the same level.

1. LoLK
This is uncontested. This is many times harder than the other extras. Terrifying nonspells and Junko are enough to ruin my day. It doesn't help that only Reimu and Reisen are truly viable, since Sanae can't bombspam for lives due to the 5 fragment requirement. The stage is simple and Doremy...is surprisingly tame.

2. TD
Low resources = costly mistakes. Though the nonspells are throwaway, Mamizou's spells are a wee bit more gimmicky than most extra bosses.

3. EoSD
The limitations of the game is what makes this difficult.

4. DDC
Stage is simple and you get plenty of resources. Raiko's not terribly easy, but she's not notably hard, either.

5. SA
I remember trying to do this one for the longest time as I first started out.

6. UFO
The only reason this is up this high is because of Kogasa, and *maybe* the section afterward. Nue's a joke. The only reason I didn't perfect her on a recent run was because I somehow got hit during the 3rd nonspell.

7. MoF
Spellcards don't last as long, but you can do all the non-spells nearly blindfolded.

8. IN
Only thing that's really a problem here is Mokou's last nonspell. Everything else is manageable.

9. PCB (Extra+Phantasm)
Borders and potential loadout of 4 bombs trivialize the stage.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Hainiryuun on June 04, 2016, 01:37:57 AM
1 - LoLK. So much rage.

2 - SA. I'm just terrible at this game, in general.

3 - UFO. I probably could get a lot better at this with practice, but too often I just go "TOO MANY BULLETS NO UFOS" and spam bombs.

4 - TD. Low amount of resources and I fail at trance.

5 - DDC. Get infinite resources in stage. Bomb through Raiko, if necessary.

6 - MoF. Nothing too fancy from Suwako and the stage up to her is trivial.

7 - PCB. Again, nothing overwhelmingly fancy, and you can border break just about every spellcard.

8 - EoSD. Patchouli is harder than Flan. Flan is a joke other than her last spellcard.

9 - IN. I've cleared this on Ultra. I've cleared this at 120 FPS. Mokou's most powerful attack is her last nonspell and is laughable, otherwise.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Failure McFailFace on June 04, 2016, 05:03:04 AM
This is one of those I'm not going to copy in my difficulty tier with this one.

I have yet to clear an extra stage, barring DDC MarisaB on Ultra because resource farming lol
1. LoLK: OMGWTFBBQ. I've practically memorized the entire stage, and I have yet to get through even TWO of Hecetatia's cards.
2. UFO: I hate random bullets.
3. SA: Streaming, but life pieces are not enough
4. TD: random bullets
5. MoF: It's alright, especially w/ MarisaBug
6. IN: Border Team helps
7. EoSD: Easier, but I've yet to make even halfway.
8. PCB: Somehow made it halfway through Ran.
9. DDC: MarisaB 2 op
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Lunatic Mode]
Post by: Mero on June 04, 2016, 05:33:35 AM
Quote from: Choco Beam on June 02, 2016, 12:23:06 AM
Easier to learn and do scoring stuff but scores lower. You might still need to spend a few hundred hours to get use to the timings and grazes with them though.

Thanks for answering, I thought it would be like that, since other teams also have other advantages (or at least I think they are), like Scarlet's larger graze area or Ghost having just having 3/4 of youkai gauge

Anyway, my Extras:
1. SA
2. TD
3. EoSD
4. PCB
5. UFO
6. IN
7. MoF
8. DDC
9. LoLK

SA Extra is all about the first impression, everything is hard and intimidating the first time, but then it's just standard. I put this at first because it's the Extra that took me the longest to get a clear of (after GFW). Also a little thing I believe most people overlook is that if you get hit on Sanae or Koishi, you essentially died twice, since you're not getting every life piece anymore, so you have very few mistakes to make

TD is actually not that hard if you route correctly, but it does have difficult patterns, mainly because of wonky animal hitboxes, and mistakes on TD are hard to deal with

EoSD is just a rough game, resources are fairly limited, but it's not terribly difficult, just don't do dumb stuff (like challenging Maze of Love at the bottom) and you'll be fine

PCB is just there, I feel like Ex and Phantasm are longer than average, so it's more an exercise of patience, but resources are plenty and like on Yuyuko, patterns cancel into cherry items so you have multiple borders (and you can even nearly trivialize DBDB by abusing the i-frames on the end of a border)

UFO has a very annoying Ex stage portion, but Nue is really not hard, you could enter her fight 0/0 and still clear quite handily, especially with shots like SanaeB or MarisaA

Mokou has mostly easy patterns, and you have extended deathbomb timers, so...

ReimuA tears MoF Extra apart, the stage is trivial to her and Suwako is very easy. Other shots can do the same, they just require some effort on your part

If you're not getting 2 lives out of all of Raiko's nons with MarisaB you're doing it wrong.

Reisen can actually get lives in LoLK Extra's stage portion and you get a minimum of 10 hits per life, you can't not clear with her

Also, GFW is both best and most difficult Extra, period.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Hainiryuun on June 04, 2016, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: GMK on June 04, 2016, 05:33:35 AM
EoSD is just a rough game, resources are fairly limited, but it's not terribly difficult, just don't do dumb stuff (like challenging Maze of Love at the bottom) and you'll be fine

Not gonna lie, clearing Maze of Love from the bottom is the only way I capture it. I think I've captured it the way you are supposed to, once, and realized that tapping left a couple times from the bottom is just easier.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Sen on June 04, 2016, 03:12:34 PM
Oh boy, Extra stages have always been my favorite.

EoSD - Probably my favorite stage in the entire series; beating it no-focus with MarisaA was one of my favorite accomplishments in these games. The stage is consistently challenging (especially the books at the end) and Patchy is a clusterfuck no matter what you do. Flandre herself is a great mix between puzzle danmaku (Maze of Love, Counter-Clock) and flat out dodging (Q.E.D., Catadioptric), with very few tricks to get you through it (Starbow Break safespot nonwithstanding). Not to mention only getting four lives for the whole stage.

PCB - Phantasm really feels like what PCB's Extra was supposed to be, and Yukari delivers. Her cards are pure chaos, and the surprise survival card at the end always catches me off-guard. Really enjoyable battle overall.

LoLK - The stage portion is surprisingly easy for LoLK, and Doremy is much easier than her Stage 3 iteration. Hecatia is the only Extra boss where I can say her nonspells are significantly harder than her spellcards. Same goes for Junko. Reimu is the only character I feel comfortable playing in Extra because the nonspells are so claustrophobic.

SA - I feel weird rating SA Extra because I either NMNB it, or Koishi smashes my face into the pavement. There never seems to be an in-between. The stage portion can be overwhelming, and Sanae's third card always makes me nervous, but they're doable. Koishi herself is definitely one of the harder Extra bosses, with cards like Genetics and Embers of Love that can easily overwhelm you without plenty of practice. I've still never captured Koishi's survival card-- just don't know how to deal with the second phase.

TD - It says something that I was able to go into TD Extra completely blind and get to Mamizou's last spellcard on my first try. The stage is a joke, but Nue provides a good challenge every time (I actually really like the Nue battle, it really has the UFO feel to it). Mamizou is...conflicting. Her nonspells are a joke and her spellcards are more puzzles than anything. They range from laughable (second card) to hilariously overwhelming (second-last card). The low resources definitely hurt, like they do in all of TD, but I'm very comfortable with this Extra.

UFO - Weirdly enough considering how batshit most of UFO is, the Extra stage isn't that bad. The stage portion is actually significantly harder than Nue; aside from Undefined Darkness and Rainbow UFOs, Nue isn't much of a threat. MarisaA and SanaeB also completely eliminate any difficulty in the UFO cards aside from Rainbow UFOs.

IN - Mokou has some difficult cards for sure, and that last nonspell is horrendous, but overall her cards (like most of IN) can be memorized and beaten very easily, just takes a lot of practice. The stage isn't too difficult aside from EX-Keine, whose third spell always gets me.

DDC - (http://i.imgur.com/aNvbpCM.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/aNvbpCM.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/aNvbpCM.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/aNvbpCM.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/aNvbpCM.jpg)

MoF - The stage portion of MoF Extra consists mostly of flying around in circles and streaming, so nothing here is really too dangerous. Kanako is a non-threat. Aside from Froggy Braves the Elements and her survival cards, Suwako is by far the easiest Extra boss. The infinite bombs actually don't really help that much, given the nature of Extra bosses, but Suwako is easy enough on her own that they don't really come into play.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: iVAwalys on June 08, 2016, 02:07:01 PM
And the week is over and I still haven't rated the extras yet. :V RESULTS COMING SOON.
best thread op 2017

1. SA - Koishi's attacks are hell. Everything except her first spell, second spell and Embers of Love is pure hell. When I completed the Extra stage, I timed out Subterranean Rose, because the last phase is so goddamn hard.

2. UFO - Even the Extra stage is hell in this game. No, not because of the boss. Nue is actually one of the easiest Extra bosses. I'm talking about the stage, mainly the UFOs and midboss Kogasa with her Guerilla Typhoon.

3. LoLK - Hecatia's nonspells are INSANE. This is probably the first time in the series, where the hardest attacks the extra boss throws at you are nonspells. If you're playing someone other than Reisen, that is.

4. EoSD - Welcome to RNG clipdeath nightmare, featuring everyone's favorite overrated vampire loli.

5. TD - This one has the same case as UFO. The boss is super easy, the stage is a struggle. It made me restart the most. Also, Mamizou's last spell is stupidly easy.

6. IN - The stage is easy, excluding hakutaku Keine, I ALWAYS bomb her every single card. Mokou, while not being particularly hard, is also not very easy either.

7. PCB (Phantasm) - (Yes, I do know that PCB Extra varies in patterns from Phantasm a lot, but I've always considered it an easier version of Phantasm.) This one is incredibly easy, even on Phantasm, even without abusing supernatural borders. Once you make a good route, you're only going to die by clipdeaths. It's also a very fun stage.

8. MoF - Once again, make a good route. Once you do, most of the stage revolves around circling around the enemies again and again. Suwako's attacks spike in difficulty all throughout the fight, and she has two friggin' survival spells, but you get a lot of resources before battling her.

9. DDC - It's so easy, it's almost insulting. I beat the whole Extra in just 3 tries.

...And now, I'm going to calculate the results.

Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: ZM on June 08, 2016, 02:47:15 PM
Aw shit. I forgot to post. If there's still time...

1. SA - Probably the toughest out of them all. Koishi isn't very difficult, but she has a couple tougher spells compared to everyone else.
2. LoLK - Hecatia's blue nons are shits. Lunatic Impact is also bully. Otherwise pretty simple.
3. TD - Mamizou's really fun and has some nice spellcard variety and challenge the whole way through. Nothing too difficult, though.
4. EoSD - QED is the only difficult thing about this Extra, but Flandre's only this high since it's probably the most difficult spell out of all the Extras. Maybe.
5. IN - idk where to put this, so maybe here? Mokou's not very dangerous outside of her final non, but her fight bores the fuck out of me.
6. PCB - Luckily Yukari and Ran are similar in difficulty. Good fights.
7. DDC - Even without MariB's bomb, Raiko's pretty simple.
8. MoF - Suwako's only threatening attack is Suwa War, but she's otherwise tame compared to the others.
9. UFO - I'd rate this a higher if I was judging based on scoring since the stage portion and Kogasa are bully, but since this is survival, Nue's the easiest Extra boss in the series. She has nothing particularly dangerous, and SanaeB/ReimuA pretty much decimate her.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: Monarda on June 08, 2016, 03:03:17 PM
Hmmm, now that this is almost done, maybe we could make a "Official Rate the Spellcard Thread" ? There is one for Shot-types, and we havr this one on difficulty, so i think it might be an good idea.

We could rate it by more categoriea too, like power, complexity, beauty/aesthetics, or whatever you want.
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [Done for now.]
Post by: iVAwalys on June 08, 2016, 03:20:41 PM
Quote from: ZM on June 08, 2016, 02:47:15 PM
Aw shit. I forgot to post. If there's still time...

Sorry, you were 15 minutes late. :V

Quote from: Starlighthawk on June 08, 2016, 03:03:17 PM
Hmmm, now that this is almost done, maybe we could make a "Official Rate the Spellcard Thread" ? There is one for Shot-types, and we havr this one on difficulty, so i think it might be an good idea.

We could rate it by more categoriea too, like power, complexity, beauty/aesthetics, or whatever you want.

But please do pick a better OP next time. :getdown:
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [Done for now.]
Post by: ZM on June 08, 2016, 03:25:06 PM
Quote from: iVAwalys on June 08, 2016, 03:20:41 PM
Sorry, you were 15 minutes late. :V

idc, I voiced my opinions and that's all that matters. :t
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [Done for now.]
Post by: Monarda on June 08, 2016, 03:30:37 PM
Quote from: iVAwalys on June 08, 2016, 03:20:41 PM
But please do pick a better OP next time. :getdown:

I'll try. :smokedcheese:
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [This Week: Extra Mode]
Post by: TresserT on June 08, 2016, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: Starlighthawk on June 08, 2016, 03:03:17 PM
Hmmm, now that this is almost done, maybe we could make a "Official Rate the Spellcard Thread" ? There is one for Shot-types, and we havr this one on difficulty, so i think it might be an good idea.

We could rate it by more categoriea too, like power, complexity, beauty/aesthetics, or whatever you want.

That would be... insane... There around 120 spell cards per game, over 8 games ._. How woud we even rank all of those? By game? Remilia > Rumia....? Scarlet Gensokyo > Ressurrection Butterfly?
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [Done for now.]
Post by: Monarda on June 08, 2016, 04:26:48 PM
I was thinking more like:

You make a list of the spellcards that left the biggest mark on you in terms of difficulty at the time, or how pretty it looks, or how interesting it's mechanics or complexity is.

You don't need to go through ALL the spellcards, yes, we could split it by games, or by eras, or even by characters, i never said it was gonna be easy, and it's good that way, that's why i play Touhou after all. :D
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [Done for now.]
Post by: Cream Soda on June 09, 2016, 12:12:33 AM
1. Gradius III
2. Cory in the House
3. Dodonpachi Daioujou
4. Raiden II
5. Same! Same! Same!
6. Sonic the Hedgehog 2
7. Touhou Eiyashou: Imperishable Night (Normal)
8. Touhou Seirensen: Undefined Fantastic Object (Lunatic)
9. Mushihimesama Futari (Ultra)
10. Armed Police Buttrider
Title: Re: Official Rate the Game Difficulties Thread! [Done for now.]
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on June 09, 2016, 05:27:11 AM
Quote from: Cream Soda on June 09, 2016, 12:12:33 AM
1. Gradius III
2. Cory in the House
3. Dodonpachi Daioujou
4. Raiden II
5. Same! Same! Same!
6. Sonic the Hedgehog 2
7. Touhou Eiyashou: Imperishable Night (Normal)
8. Touhou Seirensen: Undefined Fantastic Object (Lunatic)
9. Mushihimesama Futari (Ultra)
10. Armed Police Buttrider

What do you mean? Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is obviously the world's hardest shmup!  :derp: