Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Abraham Lincoln on May 11, 2015, 09:20:54 AM

Title: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 11, 2015, 09:20:54 AM
What the title says.

Which real-life historical figures do you think would make for the best Touhou characters?


Here's mine:

-Benedict Arnold
Traitor! I don't know why, but something about him and his anxiety, major deppersion, and panic disorder makes me think he'd be an interesting Touhou character with a tragic backstory.

-Isaac Newton
His obsession with magic and the laws that govern our very nature could translate well into spellcards in my opinion.

-Ludwig van Beethoven
I would love to listen to ZUN-styled adaptations of his works. The intro of the Moonlight Sonata sounds like it would make for an awesome stage or boss theme.

-Leonardo Da Vinci
At the expense of a million bad ninja tortoise jokes, having a Touhou based around the fine arts would be a great addition to the series.

-Nikola Tesla
I can see the Tesla Coil being converted into some form of danmaku-spewing mechanism. A Tesla 2hu would get along really well with Nitori.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 11, 2015, 10:54:33 AM
I'm sure that people from myths are real people too, right?  :)

I wouldn't be surprised if Chang'e appears in LOL.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 11, 2015, 11:16:31 AM
I'm sure that people from myths are real people too, right?  :)

I wouldn't be surprised if Chang'e appears in LOL.
Not all mythical people are real, and isn't Chang'e technically Kaguya? :O
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: UTW on May 11, 2015, 11:30:14 AM
I think that ZUN missed a prime opportunity while the religion wars were going on to use Francis Xavier, Shiro Amakusa, the Shimabara Rebellion, and the Hidden Christians movement for a game.

And since we've named a lot of westerners so far, Matthew Perry and the Black Ships.

Not all mythical people are real, and isn't Chang'e technically Kaguya? :O

In that, as I recall, the literary Kaguya was based on Chang'e, yes. But Chang'e is also said to exist in Touhou.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: haoreos2 on May 11, 2015, 12:10:13 PM
Aleister Crowley.

Can you imagine the wonderfully convoluted infodumps? The cherrypicking of verifiably legitimate, contemporary aspects of eastern religions, mysticism and the occult, and shoving them into his own system? The antics resulting from certain characters taking issue with him doing so? It'd be great.


Also, seeing a bald, portly British man rendered in ZUNart would certainly be... something.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on May 11, 2015, 07:55:42 PM
We already have Prince Shotoku, his wife, and I think his mother-in-law.

We also have two Buddhist nuns, Hijiri and the daughter of Saigyou.

Would be interesting to see some mention of Masamune relating to the supplying of weapons to the Konpaku clan.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Raikaria on May 11, 2015, 08:49:12 PM
The problem of a real-world adaptation into a Touhou Character is the rules of Gensokyo. Things that pass into Gensokyo are [mostly] forgotten. So if you are thinking of these people to be 'Touhou-fied'... well, they don't fit the criteria.

Even the storyline of Miko is that she slumbered so long she [and the Dream Mausoelum] fell into Gensokyo, forgotten, and she was awakened [in part] the faith of Myouren Temple right on top of her place. She was 'forgotten'; in-universe; to the degree history remembered her as a male [Seeing as in one of the endings Sanae points out it says she is male in a history book]
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on May 11, 2015, 09:07:37 PM
For the forgotten part, I know that very few people even know of Saigyou's daughter, or at least that is my impression.  That said, Yuyuko lives in the Netherworld which technically is not actually part of Gensokyo, it just has a border with Gensokyo that can be somewhat easily crossed now.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Misfortune! on May 12, 2015, 06:05:59 AM
If we're dealing with "[mostly] forgotten," then Oda Nobunaga is out of the question. Though I don't know if many people know his successor, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, or even his successor, Tokugawa Ieyasu.

Actually all three sound like good ideas.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: game2011 on May 12, 2015, 03:00:16 PM
Not all mythical people are real, and isn't Chang'e technically Kaguya? :O
In that, as I recall, the literary Kaguya was based on Chang'e, yes. But Chang'e is also said to exist in Touhou.
Wrong.  Kaguya is based on the Kaguya from The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter.  Chang'e's story is a completely different one that originated from China.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on May 14, 2015, 05:17:37 AM
Silly me, forgot to mention that the true name of Saigyou's daughter is forgotten.  Because of this in order for her to have the dignity of a name now I can only think to call her "Yuyuko".  Now I doubt that is her actual name, but it is the name she was given by ZUN.  I guess it is better than not having a name so as someone who actually does care about her I do appreciate her once again having a name.  So yeah, no wonder she would be eligible to end up in Gensokyo...  even though again, Netherworld is not technically part of it.  Odd thing, though, there is no reference to Yuyuko being a Buddhist nun even though not just her father became a monk, she became a nun, as did her mother.  In the end, they entered paradise as a family one by one.

Shotoku, his bride, and another of his retainers on the other hand...  well I guess they are only known to academics so maybe.

Hijiri, no idea but I know she and her brother existed some time ago.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: the old guy on May 14, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
Hijiri, no idea but I know she and her brother existed some time ago.
Really? I'm under the impression that they were completely made up.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on May 14, 2015, 08:53:43 PM
I would have to find where I read it, but I seem to have forgotten most of the details.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on May 14, 2015, 09:37:09 PM
While hardly forgotten, and probably dead inside the Touhou'verse, Sun Tzu.
I'm curious as to what the author of The Art of War would think about Gensokyo's favored method of combat.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2015, 10:03:25 PM
>game with a cast of hundreds of female characters
>everyone names famous dudes

In seriousness, I would love to see some of our more badass women from history in Gensokyo. Joan of Arc, for example, or Voltairine de Cleyre (maybe paired with Emma Goldman as a chaos-inducing duo), Marie Curie, Mother Jones, and Bonnie Parker spring first to mind.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on May 14, 2015, 10:11:20 PM
Yaoya Oshichi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoya_Oshichi).

I know it's a rather strange choice, especially  of her repercussions in the 60s, but if we take THAT out of the equation she would be an interesting focus in a Touhou game relating to the Chinese Zodiac.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Kaizaki on May 14, 2015, 10:43:40 PM
In seriousness, I would love to see some of our more badass women from history in Gensokyo.
Amelia Earhart was never found because she ended up in Gensokyo, where she continued her passion for flying.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2015, 10:55:06 PM
Amelia Earhart was never found because she ended up in Gensokyo, where she continued her passion for flying.

This is such a great idea that I am sure there is fan fiction/art using this motif.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 14, 2015, 11:22:32 PM
>game with a cast of hundreds of female characters
>everyone names famous dudes
>MFW you don't realize Prince Shoutoku is in Gensyoko as Miko

In all seriousness, Shoutoku got gender bent, it seems, into Mike, so it's possible that famous guys could just gender bend into girls.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Lt Colonel Summers on May 15, 2015, 12:57:04 AM
How about Florence Nightingale? Imagine her hanging out with Doctor Shady Drugs...
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Tengukami on May 15, 2015, 01:31:27 AM
>MFW you don't realize Prince Shoutoku is in Gensyoko as Miko

In all seriousness, Shoutoku got gender bent, it seems, into Mike, so it's possible that famous guys could just gender bend into girls.

I think Raikaria already addressed this; she wasn't gender bent, she was a girl the whole time. Those of us in the outside world were the ones who changed her gender.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on May 15, 2015, 07:22:35 AM
>game with a cast of hundreds of female characters
>everyone names famous dudes

In seriousness, I would love to see some of our more badass women from history in Gensokyo. Joan of Arc, for example, or Voltairine de Cleyre (maybe paired with Emma Goldman as a chaos-inducing duo), Marie Curie, Mother Jones, and Bonnie Parker spring first to mind.

How about Typhoid Mary? :V

Spreads around sickness unwittingly as power, stage 1-2 boss.
Oh wait, Medicine Melancholy. Not quite the same, admittedly, but similar.

Fine, fine, I'll take it seriously. :P

I'm not sure if it counts as 'historical', but Athena?
I've always wanted to see a touhou fangame focusing on Greek myths so might just be me being biased.

Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: haoreos2 on May 15, 2015, 09:10:16 AM
I think Raikaria already addressed this; she wasn't gender bent, she was a girl the whole time. Those of us in the outside world were the ones who changed her gender.

Wouldn't that still count as gender bending from a meta perspective? After all, if someone made a doujin where Reimu was born a dude, that would still count as such (Unless the definition of gender bending involves a character actually swapping genders during the story or in their backstory, I guess).

Regardless of whether its been justified in the context of the story whether by mundane means or otherwise, it still sets a precedent for historical figures remembered as male in the real world to be included in the setting.



As for female historical figures, Boudica could work. Blaze sign: Londinium Conflagration.
If mythological ones count, Medea and Medusa could work for that whole "cursed by the gods" motif, and the fact that they'd actually be justified in having magic. In Medusa's case we'd even have an obvious power that would fill the requirement for every character to have some special skill that would also work in gameplay terms.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on May 15, 2015, 10:12:41 PM
What about Lady Murasaki?  She could have a story weaving ability or something.

Though her name might cause confusion with Yukari since it is written with the same kanji...  or perhaps a link can be created and cause all sorts of intrigue.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: ChronaSE on May 16, 2015, 02:33:26 AM
I'd love to see a touhou version of Joan of Arc and Socrates  :3
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: TresserT on May 16, 2015, 03:19:23 AM
Honestly... if touhou started using more western characters like most people are describing I think I'd lose interest. Touhou is a game about the east, and I hope it always stays that way.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: ChronaSE on May 16, 2015, 03:34:40 AM
Honestly... if touhou started using more western characters like most people are describing I think I'd lose interest. Touhou is a game about the east, and I hope it always stays that way.

I feel the same, but I also feel as though there are way less 'important' japanese youkai to introduce. So at some point ZUN would perhaps have less material to explore.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: TresserT on May 16, 2015, 03:56:41 AM
I feel the same, but I also feel as though there are way less 'important' japanese youkai to introduce. So at some point ZUN would perhaps have less material to explore.

It's not so much western "youkai", I mean touhou has been filled with western monsters since the very beginning. We had Sariel, then Shinki (and Makai in general), we had Remilia and Flandre, more recently we got Wakasagihime, Sekibanki, and Kagerou. I'd just be upset if he started making the plots revolve around western myths the same way they revolve around eastern ones. Like, it's one thing to make an angel character. It's another entirely to make the central plot about Jesus. I don't know how to explain what I'm saying...
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Tengukami on May 16, 2015, 04:08:29 AM
No, I hear you. Though I think there's little danger of that happening, given ZUN's deep fascination with Japanese history and lore. I don't especially want to see Voltairine de Cleyre made into a 2hu; I just took this as a light speculative What If discussion.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 16, 2015, 04:12:20 PM
Now that I think of it, Abraham Lincoln wouldn't be too farfetched of a choice, given that urban legend has it that his ghost haunts the White House

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%27s_ghost
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Hannibal_Kills on August 22, 2015, 11:37:45 AM
(Not serious but whatever)

Hang Tuah and the Hang Brothers.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: TableCloth on August 22, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Where is the love for Admiral Zheng He!?
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Der_Bright_Poster on August 22, 2015, 10:50:48 PM
I would like to see Stalin as 2chu character. His attacks would include launching hammers and sickles at the PC, along with throwing brainwashed fairies at the as a danmaku wave attack.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: snowflake247 on August 24, 2015, 05:22:45 AM
After watching the Idea Channel's video Are There Two Nikola Teslas? (https://youtube.com/watch?v=nUUysWuPdAM), the idea of Tesla in Gensokyo doesn't actually sound so far-fetched. (The "fictionalized" Tesla, rather than the "real" one, would be the one in Gensokyo.)
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on August 24, 2015, 09:20:23 AM
After watching the Idea Channel's video Are There Two Nikola Teslas? (https://youtube.com/watch?v=nUUysWuPdAM), the idea of Tesla in Gensokyo doesn't actually sound so far-fetched. (The "fictionalized" Tesla, rather than the "real" one, would be the one in Gensokyo.)

Speaking of Tesla... (http://flandre495.deviantart.com/art/Touhou-Afterword-Afterworld-s-Full-Version-553835784)
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Ryuunotaki on August 25, 2015, 07:14:13 AM
Hmmm... I'd like to see Datu Lapu-Lapu (the one who killed Magellan) just for the curiosity. He's going to be very different-- brown skin and all. And he was also quite warlike and skilled, having managed to beat the Spaniards with their metal armour with iron swords and wooden spears. It would also be interesting to have someone from a seafaring race in Gensokyo.

Him, or Chinggis Qahan (Genghis Khaan). Chinggis has this charisma and complex mentality. Also, a horseman!

Or perhaps Idi Amin Dada. For obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on August 25, 2015, 07:45:25 AM
Him, or Chinggis Qahan (Genghis Khaan). Chinggis has this charisma and complex mentality. Also, a horseman!
The mention of Chinggis' family reminded me of someone whose name I'd like to throw into the ring: Khutulun. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khutulun)
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Hannibal_Kills on September 06, 2015, 03:28:35 AM
I'm imagining Murasa Minamitsu being the captain of the lost USS Cyclops.
And I know this should be a person, not an object. But since there's a 'historical' in the title, then shall I write.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on September 10, 2015, 07:28:29 AM
I'd like to pitch in Richard Wagner.
(http://www.nocleansinging.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Richard-Wagner.jpg)
I mean...that hat. Just look at it.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Tsuken Yasashi on September 12, 2015, 02:39:14 AM
Any ancient Japanese/Chinese War texts (The Art of War, The Thirty-Six Stratagems, Hagakure, etc.)

Books can be historical figures too, since they're tied to their respective authors, right?
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on September 21, 2015, 11:38:22 PM
I'm imagining Murasa Minamitsu being the captain of the lost USS Cyclops.
And I know this should be a person, not an object. But since there's a 'historical' in the title, then shall I write.

I see her more as being a manifestation of the lost IJN Kiso, a Kuma class light cruiser.  Though this is meta as it is based on another game...
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on September 22, 2015, 02:33:01 PM
I see her more as being a manifestation of the lost IJN Kiso, a Kuma class light cruiser.  Though this is meta as it is based on another game...

I think if Murasa were to be the manifestation of a famous warship, she would most likely be the USS Enterprise (CV-6). Said ship was dubbed the Grey Ghost due to her reputation of being an unsinkable ship as well as the fact that the Japanese somehow often erroneously thought that they had managed to sink her. Enterprise's planes had also sunk the greatest tonnage so far of any US naval warship in battle, if my memory serves me correctly. After the war, she was sent to the scrapyard following failed efforts to have her preserved as a floating museum, so she is effectively a legend now.

Actually, Enterprise wasn't totally scrapped. A few of her small parts have been preserved and are on display, among them one of her anchors.


On an unrelated note, sometimes I like to imagine that the Prismrivers are three of Bach's prematurely dead children.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: snowflake247 on September 22, 2015, 04:15:34 PM
Now you're making me want to see Murasa in a Star Trek uniform.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on September 23, 2015, 07:29:32 AM
Now you're making me want to see Murasa in a Star Trek uniform.

I meant the historical, WWII-era one. >:U
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: qMyon on September 24, 2015, 12:12:47 PM
(Not serious but whatever)

Hang Tuah and the Hang Brothers.

I'm not that sure they were brothers.

Part of me wants to see Chevalier D'Eon, or maybe Theodora.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on September 24, 2015, 08:14:22 PM
I think if Murasa were to be the manifestation of a famous warship, she would most likely be the USS Enterprise (CV-6). Said ship was dubbed the Grey Ghost due to her reputation of being an unsinkable ship as well as the fact that the Japanese somehow often erroneously thought that they had managed to sink her. Enterprise's planes had also sunk the greatest tonnage so far of any US naval warship in battle, if my memory serves me correctly. After the war, she was sent to the scrapyard following failed efforts to have her preserved as a floating museum, so she is effectively a legend now.

Actually, Enterprise wasn't totally scrapped. A few of her small parts have been preserved and are on display, among them one of her anchors.


On an unrelated note, sometimes I like to imagine that the Prismrivers are three of Bach's prematurely dead children.

Actually, the "Grey Ghost" was the next USS Lexington.  It was so named due to its paint job and the confusion caused to the Japanese when they saw that a ship bearing the same name as one they did sink has shown up (and relatively quickly, as it was already in construction and the name changed in honor of the first).  It created the impression that US carriers come back from the dead to haunt them.

But yeah, a clarification on my Kiso comment.  In Kantai Collection, the embodiment of the IJN Kiso has a design that is directly based on Murasa.  The artist who designed her is a Touhou fan and actually drew a Murasa fan art that very closely resembles Kiso years before designing Kiso and has also drawn multiple subsequent artwork of Murasa and a few other Touhou characters.  So If she is a ship then I will always see her as Kiso...  I just can't unsee that.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on September 25, 2015, 01:02:11 AM
Actually, the "Grey Ghost" was the next USS Lexington.  It was so named due to its paint job and the confusion caused to the Japanese when they saw that a ship bearing the same name as one they did sink has shown up (and relatively quickly, as it was already in construction and the name changed in honor of the first).  It created the impression that US carriers come back from the dead to haunt them.

The second Lexington was the Blue Ghost. She was painted blue, a fairly unusual colour for ship camouflage. Enterprise (and to a lesser extent, the second Hornet) was the Grey Ghost.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on October 06, 2015, 01:46:13 AM
I think I remember one of the "ghosts" would eventually end up as a museum ship that has a reputation for actually being haunted!  Though I still think Murasa is Kiso (because the Kiso kanmusume is actually directly derived from Murasa), a different poltergeist kanmusume might work for it.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on October 07, 2015, 02:30:25 AM
I think I remember one of the "ghosts" would eventually end up as a museum ship that has a reputation for actually being haunted!  Though I still think Murasa is Kiso (because the Kiso kanmusume is actually directly derived from Murasa), a different poltergeist kanmusume might work for it.

Yep, you're right. Lexington II (and to a lesser extent, Hornet II) are both known to be haunted.

No offense intended, but that "Murasa is Kiso" logic doesn't feel valid to me, though it might just be me and my irritating tendency to nitpick.

Have I tossed in Johann Sebastian Bach on this thread yet? Danmaku based around fugue sounds like fun.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on October 11, 2015, 09:55:10 PM
I think we both have a tendency to nitpick, but on different things with differing priorities.

Bach?  I don't think it would just be the music, that guy was a brawler and would probably be very melee heavy in the fighting games.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Hannibal_Kills on October 18, 2015, 02:26:17 AM
What if Hartmann's Youkai Girl was true all along?

I mean most of Erich Hartmann's preys didn't know what hit them even if already a ball of flames.13mm machine guns and the 30mm auto-cannon are the best combination of the Bf109 G6.

Search for him in the Wikipedia if you don't know who I meant.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: NuclearFalcon on October 18, 2015, 10:33:03 PM
Actually he used mostly the 20 mm MG 151 and not the 30 mm MK 108.  He didn't really use the 30 mm until he got the BF-109 K-4.  The 20 mm was actually preferred due to its greater accuracy and ballistics.  The 13 mm machine guns were more secondary weapons, about 80% of the damage came from the 20 mm.  Also, he never used the gun pods and most pilots did not like using them due to the weight and loss of mobility.

And yeah, he would mostly sneak up on his targets and blast them without them knowing it.  He did not really rely on dogfighting.  The Bf-109 was not particularly suited to maneuvering dogfights, especially the heavier later versions of the airframe.   In fact it was not just him, about 80% of all aircraft shot down in the war the pilot had no idea they were under attack until it was too late.
Title: Re: Real world historical figures you would like to see as 2hus
Post by: Hannibal_Kills on October 19, 2015, 12:27:53 AM
Oh, thanks for the correction about the weaponry.

But I'm still sure that Koishi's theme title had to do with Erich. If it's true, then ZUN is really historically minded who can convert them into new character's for Touhou.