Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Front Page Headlines => Topic started by: Berzul on April 22, 2015, 12:04:05 pm

Title: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on April 22, 2015, 12:04:05 pm
東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/23556856/)
(http://i.imgur.com/gQFGzIw.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/JxDCNhT.jpg)

Full version release:
Summer Comiket 88(2015-08-14)

As promised, Zun managed to finish the Full version and will be distributing it via Doujin channels. If you expect to be at the event remember to shake his hand and mind the heat.

If you can't attend for some reason, like not living in Japan or not having the money for the trip, you can order the cd via other channels (http://d-stage.com/shop/detail.php?seq=68519). I recommend waiting for the game to appear on Playism since Touhou 14 is already there.


Trial version:

If you prefer to play now you can try the Trail version (http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/th15top.html), that Zun was kind to release. Even though it's only first 3 stages, there might be some differences between the Trail and the final version.


Playable characters:
Reimu Hakurei
Shrine Maiden of Paradise

The soldiers from the Pure Land finally made an entrance.
Their flawlessness rejected the life and death of living creatures.

Special trait is her shots that home in on enemies.
Her hitbox is somewhat small.

Marisa Kirisame
Ordinary Magician

The Lunar Capital's Power Stone appeared before anyone knew it.
It held a power that could throw Gensokyo's society into chaos.

Special trait is her high firepower, both when focused and unfocused.
She has high movement speed, and makes it easy to collect items too.

Sanae Kochiya
Mountain-Dwelling Living God of Miracles

A metallic spider appeared over the Youkai Mountain.
To her, it looked like the Mars rover, Curiosity.

Has a wide-range attack both when focused and unfocused.
Her focused shot homes in, so you can concentrate on dodging.

Reisen Udongein Inaba
Moon Rabbit on Earth

The only thing that can oppose the moon's power is the moon's power itself.
Eirin's drug had the power to experience the future.

Her focused shot uses piercing bullets.
Her high-performance Spell Card allows you to take three hits
without dying. (Her hitbox gets bigger, though.)
*Barrier disappears upon clearing a stage.

Gameplay:

This time around there are 2 modes instead of the previous arcade one.

Pointdevice Mode with infinite lives allows you to continue after death as many times as you want. However, every time you are hit you will be send a little back in the stage or at the beginning of a enemy spell card. However you will lose 0.01 power each time. On the bright side the game has a save feature that will allow you to resume from any checkpoint you ceased playing at.

Legacy Mode, more familiar one with returning players, features live pool and continues much like previous games in the series. Of course you can gain more by collecting life pieces. Since the lives are indeed limited, it might be worth leaving this mode until you manage to clear the game at all.

There are 4 difficulties to choose from: New Moon Level(Easy), Crescent Level(Normal), Half Moon Level(Hard) and Full Moon Level(Lunatic). The game is considered hard, even by ZUN, so don't be shy and try out all the options while playing.

Screenshots:

(http://i.imgur.com/a0pofHe.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/fws0lcj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FkWGIT5.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/4r2zHhW.jpg)

Quote from: Zun
Touhou Project 15.
"東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom."

It's read as Touhou Kanjuden (とうほうかんじゅでん). It will be completed this summer, and the demo version will be released on Reitaisai.

If I had to explain the general overview of the story, it's a secret. The player characters will be Reimu, Marisa, Sanae en Reisen. Though there will still be changes, I added some screenshots of the current state of development.

* The game is still in development. It's sure to change, so speculation on the basis of these screenshots is useless.

On face value it doesn't look much different from normal, but this time it will have a pretty daring system. It might turn out very different from the gameplay up till now. (although the fundamental shmup components are more simple) It's a challenge that seems to go well, so I get the feeling I might somehow manage to finish the demo. I hope you can appreciate the game as a proposition of what shmup games can also look like.

But if I'm honest, the completion of the demo version is still very far away, so I plan to continue development until just before Reitaisai. Which means the CD's will be home burned...... It's been longs since I had this feeling that signifies this kind of dōjin activities, so I am excited for it.
Having said that, I am still unsure whether I will finish the system modifications for the large changes in the gameplay on time, but we will see at Reitaisai this year. (Although thinking of what would happen if I don't is even worse)

Oh, furthermore, Touhou Project 14.5 Touhou Shinpiroku ~ Urban Legend in Limbo is also planned to be released at Reitaisai. If you are interested I would greatly appreciate you picking it up as well.

どうもー、暑くて体力的にまいっていますが、今年も夏コミに出ます。
一日目金曜日、東シー29a「上海アリス幻楽団」です。



今回の頒布物は「東方紺珠伝」のみです。
一部1000円です。

初めての方にとって、コミケの会場は予想より遥かに過酷ですので、しっかりと暑さ対策してきてください。
僕も大丈夫かどうか若干自信が無いので、万全の対策をしていきます。
グッタリしてたら申し訳ないですが。

それではビックサイトで僕と握手!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 22, 2015, 12:05:33 pm
It turns out ZUN didn't introduce astronomy in WaHH and Udonge in FS for nothing, lol.

Touhou Kanjuden ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.

Demo at Reitaisai 12 (May 10).

Title means roughly "Eastern Tale of the Ultramarine Orb".

The titular "Ultramarine Orb" (Kanju, mandarin: gn zhū), is a gem said to belong to Zhang Yue, a prime minister of China's Tang dynasty. When he forgot anything, he would hold the gem in his hand, and be able to remember everything.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Spotty Len on April 22, 2015, 12:10:24 pm
Reisen being playable is neat. Moaaaaar Stage 5!

I wonder about the new characters now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Edible on April 22, 2015, 12:12:38 pm
Reisen appears to be holding a gun.  A gun with bunny ears.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: microfolk on April 22, 2015, 12:14:46 pm
I'm literally shaking right now I can't believe I'm living in a world where Reisen is a playable character.

NOW ZUN PLEASE GIVE US YOUMU TOO I NEED BOTH OF THEM PLAYABLE THEN I'LL DIE HAPPY
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Damien on April 22, 2015, 12:23:01 pm
Reisen being playable is neat. Moaaaaar Stage 5!

So indeed Stage 5 Boss have the larger potential becoming playable.

Waiting for Shou, Orin, and Futo being playable.

Seija wasn't counted cause she's already got her own game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 12:26:06 pm
Sanae, Reisen, Reimu as playables.

Where is Marisa?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Spotty Len on April 22, 2015, 12:28:24 pm
Sanae, Reisen, Reimu as playables.

Where is Marisa?
Quote
登場プレイヤーは霊夢、魔理沙、早苗と鈴仙です。
She is also here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on April 22, 2015, 12:30:05 pm
So! Quick run of google translate on the text so far.

- Playables are Reimu, Marisa, Sanae and Reisen
- No comments on the story so far
- He mentions that although it looks the same at first glance, the gameplay's actually very different from usual and you may have to switch up your playstyle
- Because there are so many changes involved, the demo isn't actually finished yet. Hence every picture has a disclaimer saying it's subject to change.

Also, Reisen's shots are called Lunatic Gun and Mind Wave, and her spellcard is Evil Undulation.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Ri-ze on April 22, 2015, 12:31:36 pm
This is great news! I never would've thought Reisen would be playable ( there goes the only human player characters theory~) but I'm so happy!

I wonder what the disable over the life bar is going to do... maybe it's the game's gimmick or something?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 12:36:58 pm
@ Spotty, ah check.

Also: lolSakuya featuring in DDC and immediately disappearing again just to make place for Sanae :V

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on April 22, 2015, 12:41:19 pm
It turns out ZUN didn't introduce astronomy in WaHH and Udonge in FS for nothing, lol.

Touhou Kanjuden ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.

Demo at Reitaisai 12 (May 10).

Title means roughly "Eastern Tale of the Ultramarine Orb".

The titular "Ultramarine Orb" (Kanju, mandarin: gn zhū), is a gem said to belong to Zhang Yue, a prime minister of China's Tang dynasty. When he forgot anything, he would hold the gem in his hand, and be able to remember everything.
The titular "Ultramarine Orb" (Kanju, mandarin: gn zhū), is a gem said to belong to Zhang Yue, a prime minister of China's Tang dynasty. When he forgot anything, he would hold the gem in his hand, and be able to remember everything.
remember everything.
Mima confirmed!

I didn't think it was going to happen but for once I'm glad I was wrong. Touhou 15 2015!

On another note, this breaks the supposed Phantasmagoria pattern (unless it's a Phantasmagoria with only 4 characters _), as well as the "main game playable characters must be humans" pattern.

I also noticed something regarding "chapters", so I wonder what that is about.

I won't be quick to judge, but I have to say from the screenshots it looks like a fan-game in quality. And what was that a black Reisen?!?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Damien on April 22, 2015, 12:44:01 pm
@ Spotty, ah check.

Also: lolSakuya featuring in DDC and immediately disappearing again just to make place for Sanae :V

Ahaha, I guess after this the next roster will be Reimu, Marisa, Youmu, and Sakuya.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 22, 2015, 12:44:19 pm
Wow! New games already? Today is a good day.

So, here's what I see in the screenshots.

-No Spell Practice in this game
-1st picture: Lives disabled on stage and boss fight. I dunno what happens or why... I guess that is a new gimmick.
-4th picture: Chapter Graze, Finished? Shooting Down? Well, looks like this is gonna be interesting.
-The boss seems to be some kind of a rabbit (well, its Lunar Kingdom, isn't it? Also, are we going to fight the Watasuki sisters?)

As an unrelated note, I think the characters in this game look weirder than DDC.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 22, 2015, 12:49:51 pm
Reisen playable, this is one of the greatest Touhou-related news I've heard.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 12:50:11 pm
I had predicted TH15 would feature a youkai as a playable character, but a moon rabbit is fine, too. I can't wait to use that bunny gun.

So a non-human is resolving an incident in a standard Touhou shooter after all. Interesting change of pace.

e:
-1st picture: Lives disabled on stage and boss fight. I dunno what happens or why... I guess that is a new gimmick.

Could also be a Last Word type deal?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Arcorann on April 22, 2015, 12:52:16 pm
Will someone make a proper front page post about this? I ask because there haven't been any for the last several major announcements (14.5 and English Playism in particular, but quite a few others as well), making the front page look really outdated.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on April 22, 2015, 12:54:53 pm
So, bunny gun. This will be a meme. I guarantee it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Damien on April 22, 2015, 12:56:51 pm
Mima confirmed!

No! what are you doing!?  :getdown: :getdown:

You've just jinxed it by mentioning her name!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 12:58:14 pm
Will someone make a proper front page post about this? I ask because there haven't been any for the last several major announcements (14.5 and English Playism in particular, but quite a few others as well), making the front page look really outdated.
Can't remember if I wrote one for DDC, I think I did no?

I'll write one when I obtained a physical copy of the demo so I can post proper screenshots and maybe some more explanation about the game.

Currently we only have a ZUN announcement so yea this thread suffices for it. Speculations != game article.

Edit: Also Cuc or mods have hijack abilities, we could improve Berzul's post. I would strongly advice this though. Depends on what Cuc is gonna do. If he has limited time I can do it tonight when I am at home.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: monhan on April 22, 2015, 12:59:36 pm
I see a Lotus Crest on the title background. Familiar designs too.

Byakuren cameo incoming! Or heck, I don't mind if Shou is in instead, if that's even possible.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 01:03:14 pm
Ok so Ammy and I had the same idea it seems. If it is ok for you Ammy I will apply bit more structure to your screenshots
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 01:04:28 pm
Be my guest! Just thought this deserved more than a blog link and "Yey!"
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 01:06:44 pm
Be my guest! Just thought this deserved more than a blog link and "Yey!"
Quite so my dear Tengu friend. I have kept your screenshots and info, because I had same idea 

TEAMWORK FTW! caw!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Arcorann on April 22, 2015, 01:06:54 pm
Can't remember if I wrote one for DDC, I think I did no?

I'll write one when I obtained a physical copy of the demo so I can post proper screenshots and maybe some more explanation about the game.

Currently we only have a ZUN announcement so yea this thread suffices for it. Speculations != game article.

Edit: Also Cuc or mods have hijack abilities, we could improve Berzul's post. I would strongly advice this though. Depends on what Cuc is gonna do. If he has limited time I can do it tonight when I am at home.

I was referring to ULiL though, which hasn't had a post at all despite there already being a demo. I understand the logic to wait a while for this one, though.

Also, I checked the front page, and it turns out there was a post for DDC demo but not full. Should they have been separate posts?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 22, 2015, 01:07:04 pm
BUNNYMANIA IS RUNNING WILD SISTER
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 01:10:16 pm
<fangboy/girlgasm>
Except you have been betraying Reisen, like she did to her own kind, since 10D. How dare you to leave them all to their fate.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 22, 2015, 01:10:30 pm
Could also be a Last Word type deal?

Yeah, it could be but lives disabled on stage is new.

Maybe there is something else other than Last Word?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 22, 2015, 01:12:35 pm
Except you have been betraying Reisen, like she did to her own kind, since 10D. How dare you to leave them all to their fate.

Reisen's always been higher than Miko, broseph.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: hungrybookworm on April 22, 2015, 01:13:49 pm
Apparently the new gameplay system is gonna require a lot of work, so ZUN will be working right up until the very last minute, and burning all the trial discs at home.

God speed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ronglun227 on April 22, 2015, 01:15:12 pm
That boss there should look like Iku to me, since the title has the term "Lunatic Kingdom"
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 01:15:15 pm
Is that thing Reimu is holding some kind of mochi-pounding tool? Would tie in with the moon theme. If not, I'll just assume she'll be kayaking in this game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 22, 2015, 01:15:27 pm
Man, I still can't get over playable Reisen, she's in my top 3. Well, I'm still hoping for my other 2 favourites (Kaguya and Flandre) to make it as playable one day, but this is amazing. Really hope the game will be better than DDC was.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Spotty Len on April 22, 2015, 01:17:48 pm
That's how it went, right?

(http://i.imgur.com/7X9FdXB.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 01:18:13 pm
Man, I still can't get over playable Reisen, she's in my top 3. Well, I'm still hoping for my other 2 favourites (Kaguya and Flandre) to make it as playable one day, but this is amazing. Really hope the game will be better than DDC was.

Well, now that the ostensibly cardinal rule about at least partial humans as singular PCs in the main games has been broken, the chances are at least statistically possible.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on April 22, 2015, 01:21:25 pm
Well thanks for editing the post because I wanted to (With the translation just now) >..>
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 22, 2015, 01:23:03 pm
Also Cuc or mods have hijack abilities, we could improve Berzul's post. I would strongly advice this though. Depends on what Cuc is gonna do. If he has limited time I can do it tonight when I am at home.
Yeah, I only have enough time to cough up a translation. The rest should be up to you :)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 22, 2015, 01:35:15 pm
Well, now that the ostensibly cardinal rule about at least partial humans as singular PCs in the main games has been broken, the chances are at least statistically possible.
Well I hope it'll turn out more than just "statistically possible" in the future, sadly I really doubt it, especially in Flandre's case. ;_;

I just want my DodonPachi Daifukkatsu-like spinoff with playable Flan
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 22, 2015, 01:36:10 pm
> Kasen in 14.5
> Reisen in 15
2015 is a fine year for Touhou.


OK, slightly more relevant comments now:

I see how Reisen would fit in,  especially since this game's plot has to do with the moon.

Going off the previous point, there's a decent chance that the Watatsuki sisters will be featured. They'll even fight together like the Prismrivers did in PCB.

I'm sure a lot of you have the same thoughts as me here, but I'm almost certain this game will get a digital release via Playism, similar to DDC.

As many have already mentioned, these screenshots are only of an early? demo, meaning that anything can change at any time. The plot probably won't, but I can expect gimmicks being added or removed as game development goes on.

And at last but not least, GET HYPE EVERYONE!!!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 01:42:15 pm
@ Kilga, just checking broski, annual WAIFU CHECK.

@ Cuc, sounds fair enough.

@ screenshots:

I don't know, but I am loving Reimu's pose/stance in her dialogue portrait. The way she holds her gohei and her body stance makes her feel awesome to me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on April 22, 2015, 01:45:12 pm
Daaamn, Sanae is back and Reisen is playable in a main game. Thank you based ZUN, I'll let no Phantasmagoria slide this year  :*

(http://i.imgur.com/AbOPlMu.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ToyoRai on April 22, 2015, 01:55:35 pm
So Reisen having guns is canon now? Too bad she exchanged it for her vest. I don't really like Reisen's look without the vest.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SerB18 on April 22, 2015, 01:57:23 pm
Amazing this is great news. It is also great that we will be getting two Touhou games this year. Touhou is back baby! Also I never knew that above all the charchters that are to appear it had to be Reisen. Man, I was expecting at LEAST Kaguya or whatever or someone from DDC of TD but of my this was awesome. Also Sanae just apeared again and I`m sure that Sakuya fans are like "Pff, it`s that sorry excuse of a Shrine Maiden again." (No insults anyway but what is up with the hate on Sanae?) This plus Playsim release of DDC will trully mark one of Touhou`s finest year.

And oh crap I`m so bad at this game I cant capture even a single one of Yoshika`s cards! T_T
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 01:57:45 pm
So Reisen having guns is canon now?
Screenshots show her firing bullets / projectiles / suppository so canon I guess.

There seem to be much more going on with the game play and such because we're seeing weird things like the red circles around Reisen and the blue area circle. Disabled as mentioned before. A summary of something on the Sanae screenshot.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: dreamzzs on April 22, 2015, 02:01:16 pm
I think the "DISABLE" thing is supposed to be a Perfect run, no remaining lives for the entire six stages.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Metaflare on April 22, 2015, 02:05:03 pm
-No Spell Practice in this game

The very first pic, the one of the main menu, has Practice. It's just greyed out because demo
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 22, 2015, 02:05:29 pm
Going off the previous point, there's a decent chance that the Watatsuki sisters will be featured. They'll even fight together like the Prismrivers did in PCB.
I have my doubt regarding the return of the Watatsukis, especially as anything but last or EX boss, but who knows. It's already enough of a surprise annoucement that Reisen is a playable character in a main game, so...

The very first pic, the one of the main menu, has Practice. It's just greyed out because demo
It's probably stage practice and not spell practice la Imperishable Night. But again, who knows.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 22, 2015, 02:10:21 pm
OK, I've updated the first post with all the essential info.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on April 22, 2015, 02:15:06 pm
OK, I've updated the first post with all the essential info.

Thanks for that, if that's all. (As in if there would be more info to put it.)

(There is also no point in saying about the quality of the previous post, as in it is not essential for the post itself. Therefore I will delete that as soon everyone would be happy with all the quality.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: LunaWillow on April 22, 2015, 02:16:47 pm
HFDSLKHFVSBFDVIBDKJFGLWFE.OBZBJFDK,BKF.JSAJ

PLAYABLE REISEN

FINALYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I love you ZUN!

I'm so hyped right now! I feel like dancing~ I don't even know what to say. I'm just really, really happy!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Gpop on April 22, 2015, 02:20:26 pm
/me sees Sakuya gone
/me sees Sanae playable again

 One of the best things I've read all day, but something else surprisingly got me more excited, and that's playable Reisen.

I dunno why though. Maybe I secretly like Reisen more than I thought, but I'm actually really happy about that piece of news the most.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Koog on April 22, 2015, 02:21:43 pm
R-R-R-RE-REISEN!!!!!!
I can't believe it!!
Reisen playable!!!!

Watch me fail 30 thousands of times while playing as her...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Metaflare on April 22, 2015, 02:27:43 pm
It's probably stage practice and not spell practice la Imperishable Night. But again, who knows.

...Oh yeah.

I never stage practice so I forgot that it was a thing :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: MewMewHeart on April 22, 2015, 02:37:41 pm
OMFG MY DREAM HAS COME TRUE PLAYABLE REISEN IN A REAL SHOOTER!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! Now where's that playable Sukuna and Miko in a shooter?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 02:41:37 pm
(There is also no point in saying about the quality of the previous post, as in it is not essential for the post itself. Therefore I will delete that as soon everyone would be happy with all the quality.)

No worries - just a friendly bit of advice, though, is that a well-constructed post of breaking news like this is more likely to get approved than a single link and a single word. Better to do it well than to do it first and all.

One of the best things I've read all day, but something else surprisingly got me more excited, and that's playable Reisen.

I dunno why though. Maybe I secretly like Reisen more than I thought, but I'm actually really happy about that piece of news the most.

Same here - she's my main in PoFV!

Plus, bunny gun.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mino ☆ on April 22, 2015, 02:41:52 pm
Looks pretty interesting from the artwork at least. Except the HUD screen is very busy lol.

Er. great to have Sanae back. Also, isn't the playable characters only limited to humans or half-humans? (Though IN was an exception because teams lol).

Interesting.

I'm glad it was a main game shmup and not a side game or phantasmagoria. And I'm also interested in these "risks" he's taking.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suikama on April 22, 2015, 02:46:20 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/Hj2NKMO.png)
hey
herd u wer talkin shit
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 02:47:53 pm
Also, isn't the playable characters only limited to humans or half-humans? (Though IN was an exception because teams lol).

That's been the case for the main games anyway, yeah. I think this rule was bound to be broken sooner or later, though, and why not? If the gang can "suspend" the Spell Card Rules to fight Seija, they can easily put aside the humans/half-humans deal. I suspect, though, that ZUN has reasons for this that will pertain to the game's story.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mino ☆ on April 22, 2015, 02:50:38 pm
That's been the case for the main games anyway, yeah. I think this rule was bound to be broken sooner or later, though, and why not? If the gang can "suspend" the Spell Card Rules to fight Seija, they can easily put aside the humans/half-humans deal. I suspect, though, that ZUN has reasons for this that will pertain to the game's story.

It sure makes for some interesting variety. I can't wait to see how Reisen plays out
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 22, 2015, 02:51:46 pm
The rule isn't that important. It was only that way because ZUN had a plan for IN with four human-youkai pairs; afterwards it becomes unnecessary.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: N-Forza on April 22, 2015, 02:55:11 pm
"Interrupt data" is used whenever you have a saved game in progress available, so it seems like you won't have to start from the beginning each session. Either the game will be longer or there will be some other need for it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Moogs Parfait on April 22, 2015, 02:55:31 pm
Jumping on the hype train for Reisen. I just hope she isn't a joke character.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on April 22, 2015, 03:03:52 pm
Playable Reisen? Oh man, I think this is the first time in a couple of years that I've been even a little bit excited about a new Touhou game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 22, 2015, 03:18:09 pm
"Interrupt data" is used whenever you have a saved game in progress available, so it seems like you won't have to start from the beginning each session. Either the game will be longer or there will be some other need for it.
Hmm, the game seems to have an "experiencing past and future"theme... perhaps there'll be time loops.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: hungrybookworm on April 22, 2015, 03:19:59 pm
Hmm, the game seems to have an "experiencing past and future"theme... perhaps there'll be time loops.
Please God.
I will write all the fanfic.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BB on April 22, 2015, 03:20:48 pm
I hope there is a Gladiators-style paddle battle mini-game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Spotty Len on April 22, 2015, 03:21:00 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/SpjqFyx.png)

Okay, last one, I swear.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 22, 2015, 03:23:31 pm
Jumping on the hype train for Reisen. I just hope she isn't a joke character.

She better not be. She's already enough of a joke in most fanworks and fanon. >:I
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on April 22, 2015, 03:31:07 pm
Wait wait wait wait.
So this is the big thing?
WHELP HERE WE GO NEW MAIN SHOOTER ALL SYSTEMS SET TO BLAZING STAR GO GO GO
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fumi on April 22, 2015, 03:45:32 pm
Woow, this was quite a surprise. Is it me or the art gets more stylish for each new game? Anyway I wonder what changes made ZUN to the gameplay, I'm looking forward to challenges, I remember I played DDC for like two months until I unlocked all the extras and spell cards. This could get really interesting story-wise too if we take into account the name of the game, I wonder if we will go to the capital or something!

Also playble Reisen and Sanae! Yes! I'm glad to see Sanae back but Reisen is quite a surprise, first time we see a youkai alone trying to solve an incident anyway I'm kinda happy this doesn't turned out to be a Phantasmagoria, I think Phantasmagorias are cool and all but are easily forgetable
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GoKonRin on April 22, 2015, 03:58:29 pm
ZUN sure is taking risks here:
- First time a full youkai being playable in the main (full numbered) series that isn't a partner to an at-least-part-human
- If he really introduces a save system (still waiting to see what that "Interrupt Save Detected" thing is about) of any sort, it will likely annoy some of the fanbase. Although I suspect it is another form of continues.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 04:01:29 pm
it will likely annoy some of the fanbase

On the bright side, this could be said about literally any new thing ZUN introduces to the series.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 22, 2015, 04:07:00 pm
Wonder if ZUN's gonna destroy any headcanons again this time. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GoKonRin on April 22, 2015, 04:09:52 pm
On the bright side, this could be said about literally any new thing ZUN introduces to the series.

Indeed, and I really love how that doesn't stop him (at all) from trying new and weird stuff
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 04:19:18 pm
Or even, re-utilizing the old? Saw this posted elsewhere and thought it was hilarious. (Click for bigger)

(http://i.imgur.com/kaKy8rIl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/kaKy8rI.jpg)

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 22, 2015, 04:29:21 pm
If the storyline really does involve something to do with the moon, it's too bad Sakuya isn't a playable character.  Would be nice to get some clarification on that whole Lunarian thing with her. (of course, there's always the chance such a thing doesn't actually exist in the first place)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on April 22, 2015, 04:33:44 pm
About time-loops:
I doubt there will be something like this. My guess is that Eirin's medicine revealed that the Lunarians where planning some sort of attack against humans and youkai (Maybe to get revenge about Yukari fooling them in CiLR and SSiB?), and sent Reisen to do something aout it.

I hope there will be at least one of the Watatsuki. If not Yorihime (too strong, cheater, etc), at least Toyohime. As the Phantasm Boss perhaps.
Not because i like them a lot, but given their positions, they are more or less Yukari and Reimu's equivalent on the Moon. And because Reisen was their pet.

Also, first Mokou in ULiL, now Reisen. ZUN is really bringing pre-MoF characters back. I'm happy.
Full-power Letty and EX-Rumia when :V

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GoKonRin on April 22, 2015, 04:36:55 pm
Or even, re-utilizing the old? Saw this posted elsewhere and thought it was hilarious. (Click for bigger)

<snipped image>



Suuuurely there is a reason for that?

I thought maybe the 紺珠 shares some themes with Hijiri but my searches in Chinese wikis and Chinese historical texts doesn't show anything except maybe "Something long ago forgotten has come about" like how Hijiri come out after being sealed for so long and her certain spellcard that a lot of us remembered from long ago....

... Perhaps ZUN is going to put in something that he forgot to put in TH12?  :V
Doesn't seem to go along with the Lunar theme though
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on April 22, 2015, 04:42:23 pm
The news made my day. This probably won't rekindle my shmupping drive, but things will be interesting in many ways, that's for sure.

Jumping on the Reisen hype as well. Her previous playable appearances didn't do her justice. Here's for hoping that we'll see her shine here. Her (not so) recent manga appearance showed that it's very much possible.

But you know what I'm waiting for the most? Music. More recent entries were all awesome, it's safe to say that ZUN won't disappoint.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Metaflare on April 22, 2015, 04:51:02 pm
hey since the japanese title references a chinese artifact and the game seems to be about the moon

chang'e, anyone
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 22, 2015, 04:54:28 pm
In some screenshots, bullets within a radius around the player character turns orange.

Has this been pointed out?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on April 22, 2015, 04:58:51 pm
New Touhou game ?! New mechanism ?!!! PLAYABLE REISEN ?!!!!! *drools* When it comes to games in general, I am fine with the ones with simple mechanism but elaborate ones makes me curious too, I'll be looking forward to what this'll have that the older games don't have. I'm definitely looking forward to playing this (Maybe Reisen is gonna have some Youmu-like gimmick)

With this we also get to see that ZUN is totally fine with breaking traditions (bye bye "patterns" theory) and is really, really fond of the moon related things
Going off the previous point, there's a decent chance that the Watatsuki sisters will be featured.
This seems like a great occasion to do so, ZUN more or less mentionned that they don't get enough interraction with other characters and are, in all honesty, not very memorable. I don't quite buy the "Watatsuki too overpowered --> no game for them", because Yorihime pretty much did nothing else but bomb spamming in SSiB. It'll be awesome to see them in this game IF ZUN'll plan to, but introducing a more new characters works fine too

Also, poor Sakuya lol
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 05:05:10 pm
On fanon news: People on twitter / pixiv are going crazy with Reisen's announcement.

From mocking artwork to "Really, am I playable" type of display.

http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=49979857
https://twitter.com/2w_a7/status/590870860145119233

Even jojo parodies: https://twitter.com/jiba_tenko/status/590866772586139648
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BB on April 22, 2015, 05:08:18 pm
Bearing in mind 13 had little to do with ghosts, and 12 had nothing at all to do with aliens, I wonder if 15 will have the same kind of sting in the (fluffy) tail.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Moogs Parfait on April 22, 2015, 05:11:05 pm
Just had a thought, can't be the first  :

"Udongun"

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Boltyr on April 22, 2015, 05:14:40 pm
Byakuren for Extra Stage. Pls make it happen.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Familiar Stranger on April 22, 2015, 05:21:53 pm
Wow,this day finally came!
Can't wait to see the new plot
I'm too excited to sleep right now
Hopefully the new system will bring us even more surprise and joy!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: monhan on April 22, 2015, 05:22:32 pm
In some screenshots, bullets within a radius around the player character turns orange.

Has this been pointed out?

Nope, I guess.

The one with Reimu, huh? Doesn't seem to be the bullet behavior that's affected by range, so maybe it's the type that activates when you get close?
Or is that the game's gimmick?
Btw, those altered bullets look like carrots
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Jirachi on April 22, 2015, 05:25:59 pm
No Phantasmagoria? :(

The danmaku looks too DDC-alike either, which I didn't really enjoy.

Still, a standard danmaku game is really good news either way, and with Sanae back and Reisen playable? Even better!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 22, 2015, 05:29:35 pm
Oh boy oh boy oh boy playable Reisen!! Such lovely news~! ❤ ❤ ❤

I'm really, really excited for the game. ^^ This will be a good Reitaisai. We'll be getting both the full version of a fighter along with the demo of a main game. Just like how it happened in 2013. I still have fond memories of that year~  :3
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: notext on April 22, 2015, 06:15:44 pm
Touhou 15 is a pleasant surprise - although I will note that I  totally called Reisen being playable last July (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17051.msg1113211.html#msg1113211). If it follows the pattern I wouldn't be surprised if Kaguya, Eirin or Tewi showed up as a boss or midboss, but the possibility that the Watatsuki sisters might show up instead is interesting.

A few comments:

- The most interesting gameplay thing I noticed was that some of the bullets near Reimu in one of the screenshots have changed colour. Some kind of graze mechanic that alters onscreen bullets?
- I don't like the title screen, but Reimu's action pose is hilarious, I love it.
- Bullet patterns are already kind of stripped back - I hope this doesn't go too much further. Difficulty isn't the issue - I can always crank it up, I'm not that good at these games - I just hope the final boss doesn't have those tiny bullets this time, those were the worst things about Shinmyoumaru and Miko. Also hopefully less interface screw (I liked Seija, the blurring bullets in the extra stage not so much).

Most of all I hope he doesn't rush it too much - it sounds like ZUN's cutting things pretty close. From the sounds of it he wants to make the game fairly different - deadlines are good for getting things done, but if he needs the extra time I hope he takes it for the full version.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 22, 2015, 06:21:03 pm
I don't quite buy the "Watatsuki too overpowered --> no game for them", because Yorihime pretty much did nothing else but bomb spamming in SSiB.


I thought it was ZUN himself that stated that?  I think it was in the post SOPM interview. Although that's a bit of a mangle-ment from what I recall. What he said was they wouldn't really fit in a game due to their power or something or... I forget.

Still, easy story fix for that is just that they decided to conform more to the spell card rules or something.  Being a phantasm boss (instead of just extra stage) would also be a good way of sending a message that their power is outside the norm.

As an aside, I forget if the "only humans for playable characters" thing was stated by ZUN (be it mangled/misinterpreted or not) or not. I could have sworn we had a thread here somewhere discussing the matter.  No time to go looking for it right now though.  At any rate, Reisen at the very least has a humanish occupation from an organization with a human role, although Yukari still feels that's not enough and unlike the Lunarians, no youkai could ever act as a human (from CiLR).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Aya Reiko on April 22, 2015, 06:21:59 pm
So Reisen-san finally joins the Playable Command? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J6-3l3hCm0)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 22, 2015, 06:44:47 pm
I also noticed something on the last three main games.

You got to play as the three very first Stage 5 bosses in the series (not counting PC-98, of course): Youmu (TD), Sakuya (DDC) and Reisen (LoLK).

Not sure if this is intentional or just a coincidence. Probably the latter.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on April 22, 2015, 06:57:08 pm
Touhou 15? YES

Although, I didn't expect the moon-theme in this game, or Reisen being playable. And Sanae returning again.

I do agree with notext's prediction post, with ZUN tying in the old Windows with the new Windows games.

I also noticed something on the last three main games.

You got to play as the three very first Stage 5 bosses in the series (not counting PC-98, of course): Youmu (TD), Sakuya (DDC) and Reisen (LoLK).

Not sure if this is intentional or just a coincidence. Probably the latter.
I'm calling playable Komachi in 2hu 16 :V

And since we're on the topic of the moon...

Why is everything involving Lunarians so complicated?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 06:57:56 pm
As an aside, I forget if the "only humans for playable characters" thing was stated by ZUN (be it mangled/misinterpreted or not) or not. I could have sworn we had a thread here somewhere discussing the matter.  No time to go looking for it right now though.

I remember the Spell Card Rules being cited as why no way anyone not human or half-human would ever be playable in the main games. But as cuc pointed out, this "rule" was largely trivial anyway. In this instance, Reisen is a good choice, as she has canonically taken part in incident-solving. And given the game title, it'll be interesting to see what her role is.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sakurei on April 22, 2015, 06:58:43 pm
I don't like the looks of it, to be honest.

No playable Youmu is ZUN's worst decision. The images are also hard on the eyes with those bright purple colors. It's like I'm tripping on acid. ZUn saying he'll experiment with the system and whatnot does not bode well, considering the recent trend (by which I mean the trend of the last 3 years or so). I can only pray.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: LunaWillow on April 22, 2015, 07:01:39 pm
I'm calling playable Komachi in 2hu 16 :V
^This

Also I want playable Futo, but that's only my naive wish... You can always dream, can't you?

Anyways, I'm quite happy with Sanae comeback. I like her more than Sak-

*LunaWillow has been slain...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Hakurei Ninja on April 22, 2015, 07:04:15 pm
I translated ZUN's blogpost to Dutch in full for the Dutch Touhou forum, and thought I could make some of you happy by making an English version as well. Some bits are translated a little freely, but I'm fairly certain that the broad lines are accurate.

Quote
Good grief, it's almost May already. This year Hakurei Jinja Reitaisai will be held again at May 10th.

The thing Team Shangai Alice is planning to distribute is the following.

(http://i.imgur.com/LmlQoat.jpg)

Touhou Project 15.
"東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom."

It's read as Touhou Kanjuden (とうほうかんじゅでん). It will be completed this summer, and the demo version will be released on Reitaisai.

If I had to explain the general overview of the story, it's a secret. The player characters will be Reimu, Marisa, Sanae en Reisen. Though there will still be changes, I added some screenshots of the current state of development.

  (screenshots. see http://kourindou.exblog.jp/22976576/ (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/22976576/))

* The game is still in development. It's sure to change, so speculation on the basis of these screenshots is useless.

On face value it doesn't look much different from normal, but this time it will have a pretty daring system. It might turn out very different from the gameplay up till now. (although the fundamental shmup components are more simple) It's a challenge that seems to go well, so I get the feeling I might somehow manage to finish the demo. I hope you can appreciate the game as a proposition of what shmup games can also be like.

But if I'm honest, the completion of the demo version is still very far away, so I plan to continue development until just before Reitaisai. Which means the CD's will be home burned...... It's been longs since I had this feeling that signifies this kind of dōjin activities, so I am excited for it.
Having said that, I am still unsure whether I will finish the system modifications for the large changes in the gameplay on time, but we will see at Reitaisai this year. (Although thinking of what would happen if I don't is even worse)

Oh, furthermore, Touhou Project 14.5 Touhou Shinpiroku ~ Urban Legend in Limbo is also planned to be released at Reitaisai. If you are interested I would greatly appreciate you picking it up as well.

Feel free to do with this translation what you want. Repost it, edit it, tweak it, make out with it... The translation is public domain as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GoKonRin on April 22, 2015, 07:11:40 pm
As an aside, I forget if the "only humans for playable characters" thing was stated by ZUN (be it mangled/misinterpreted or not) or not. I could have sworn we had a thread here somewhere discussing the matter.
The last time I saw this type of discussion was a theory post about Marisa being youkai. I think it was mentioned that only having human as incident solvers was an important thing.

Speaking of which, TH5 already broke that pattern...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 22, 2015, 07:23:20 pm
>announcement

(https://i.imgur.com/BN7xIgN.gif)

I really can't say anything that's not a IN-deathbomb-timer-sized understatement of how I'm feeling right now, I really really can't. I hopped into the Touhou ride around July, last year. So, this and ULiL are my first time watching all the announcements, all the excitement, all the speculation run far, wild and free. SPECIAL FEELINGS, DUDE. SPECIAL FEELINGS AND EXCITEMENT WASH ALL OVER MY BODY.

In short, DAMMIT WHY IS REITAISAI SO FAR AWAY I NEED THIS
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 22, 2015, 07:26:49 pm
I also noticed something on the last three main games.

You got to play as the three very first Stage 5 bosses in the series (not counting PC-98, of course): Youmu (TD), Sakuya (DDC) and Reisen (LoLK).

Not sure if this is intentional or just a coincidence. Probably the latter.
Hmm... You're definitely on to something here. Personally I like to think it's the former, especially since ZUN seems like the kind of guy that would make references to things like that. Then again, it could be just a coincidence, but that's no fun, right?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: teefa85 on April 22, 2015, 07:43:05 pm
Wow...I came home to big news!  This is becoming a very good week for me.  I wonder how Reisen's type of fighting will work in play, and what sort of things the others have (while Reimu and Marisa are generally consistent there's still some minor changes based on gameplay, and Sanae was very different in both games she was in).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 22, 2015, 07:46:40 pm
Touhou 15 is a pleasant surprise - although I will note that I  totally called Reisen being playable last July (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17051.msg1113211.html#msg1113211). If it follows the pattern I wouldn't be surprised if Kaguya, Eirin or Tewi showed up as a boss or midboss, but the possibility that the Watatsuki sisters might show up instead is interesting.

Having Kaguya, Eirin or Tewi as bosses/midbosses doesn't seem to fit to me, given Reisen's description seems to imply that Eirin sent her. Of course, that's only what I personally interpret from it, could be wrong.


I don't like the looks of it, to be honest.

No playable Youmu is ZUN's worst decision. The images are also hard on the eyes with those bright purple colors. It's like I'm tripping on acid. ZUn saying he'll experiment with the system and whatnot does not bode well, considering the recent trend (by which I mean the trend of the last 3 years or so). I can only pray.

You've got to be the only person I've seen so far who reacted negatively, lol. I like Youmu a lot, but no Youmu is fine by me if we get Reisen instead - at least, it's not just Reimu, Marisa and Sanae. That would have been boring. Hell, it introduces a new playable character in main games, even better than Youmu or Sakuya again. Youmu has already been playable in a main game before afterall. If anything, Reimu, Marisa, Reisen and Youmu/Sakuya would have been nice.
As for experimenting, the way he announces it sounds to me like he'll massively alter the gameplay, unlike other main games. Could be good or bad (hopefully good, of course), but only time will tell. DDC was a disappointment, but it certainly wasn't because of experimentation.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fulisha of Light on April 22, 2015, 08:43:09 pm
The images are also hard on the eyes with those bright purple colors. It's like I'm tripping on acid.

It is kinda gaudy looking (the layout), like a cupcake with a lot of sprinkles on it, but it's not too bad. I hoping ZUN lowers the brightness a little so it blends better.
I'm pretty excited though to see what the gameplay will be like and the new characters we'll see  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on April 22, 2015, 08:45:23 pm
definitely excited. Don't really care about reisen being playable TBH but excited because I heard the game is going to be quite complex. I will agree with sakurei that the game looks a bit hard on the eyes personally. First time ever being part of the announcements (didn't really care for the ULIL announcement because not a fan of fighting games but this the first time I can be hyped for a new release with everyone else)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on April 22, 2015, 08:55:45 pm
#HYPEEEEEEE
New game.
#HYPEEEEEEE
Playable Reisen.
#HYPEEEEEEE

Let's see how this plays out!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mr Jovial on April 22, 2015, 08:57:38 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/XeEe6ol.jpg)
Looking very closely, does that say chapter finish?

Also Reimu looks so young in that title screen. Her ribbon looks like rabbit ears too :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 22, 2015, 09:04:44 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/XeEe6ol.jpg)
Looking very closely, does that say chapter finish?

Also Reimu looks so young in that title screen. Her ribbon looks like rabbit ears too :V

Chapter Finish
Chapter Graze
Shooting Down
Chapter Finish

Well, our new rabbit 2hu is still in the play field, so this isn't the Stage Clear screen. Maybe Spell Card Clear? (doubt it, but it's not like we got a lot go on off)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 22, 2015, 09:33:57 pm
The UI art does really hurt the eyes though, but seeing ZUN said they are subject to change: I hope he picks something more gentle for the eye or at least does some colour editing?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BB on April 22, 2015, 09:38:28 pm
Looking at the timer and the position of New Rabbit, it looks like that's the very start of an encounter- could "chapter" refer to the parts of the stage before and after the midboss? Implying we get a stats breakdown at the midboss as well as after completing the stage. "Shooting down" I'd guess counts against the number enemies that escaped without being hit, so (wild speculation!) perhaps a rhythm-game style combo system?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: shockdude on April 22, 2015, 09:40:17 pm
Quote from: Hakurei Ninja
On face value it doesn't look much different from normal, but this time it will have a pretty daring system. It might turn out very different from the gameplay up till now. (although the fundamental shmup components are more simple)
"Interrupt data" is used whenever you have a saved game in progress available, so it seems like you won't have to start from the beginning each session. Either the game will be longer or there will be some other need for it.
My guess is Touhou 15 is ditching the 6 stage format. That'd be interesting if true.
As for what he's doing instead, I dunno. Either he's increased the number of stages, or added multiple branching paths, or loops, or any combination of these. In any case I'm looking forward to it.

Btw what's Reimu wielding in the title screen?

Edit: "Chapter Finish" makes more sense as a screen that appears after beating a spellcard-like attack.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 09:45:00 pm
Pretty sure those are kayak paddles, one of which was dipped in yogurt.

Also, I don't know what you delicately-retina'd people are talking about; that color scheme is pretty.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Koog on April 22, 2015, 09:55:46 pm
Also, I don't know what you delicately-retina'd people are talking about; that color scheme is pretty.
Yeah, I think it looks quite great!!

I spent my day hyping for Reisen!!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on April 22, 2015, 10:21:14 pm
The hype is real. Reisen is real. Lunar kingdom stuff in the games is real.
I wasn't bracing for this, but glad I caught it early on. It's an exciting time for Touhou when there's just a few screenshots and a brief description and everyone's speculating.

Touhou 15 is a pleasant surprise - although I will note that I  totally called Reisen being playable last July (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17051.msg1113211.html#msg1113211).

And I might note that I called the celestial theme three posts later. Also I'm still calling the Zodiac inspiration somewhere, now more than ever. Year of the Rabbit and so on.

As for the disabled lives/chapter ending/save things, I don't think we can quite guess these yet, at least based on anything previously seen. Breaks of the traditional format are a thing now, and I'm totally welcoming them, seeing how good of an experiment ISC was.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Quukii on April 22, 2015, 10:35:03 pm
The UI art does really hurt the eyes though, but seeing ZUN said they are subject to change: I hope he picks something more gentle for the eye or at least does some colour editing?
I agree, the colors are a bit too much and clash. I think it would be better if the whole thing was more muted.

I'm pretty excited for this. Reisen being a playable character is cool.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BB on April 22, 2015, 10:43:56 pm
Pretty sure those are kayak paddles, one of which was dipped in yogurt.

Alternatively (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFGnPlpmMxE&feature=youtu.be&t=36s)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: nyttyn on April 22, 2015, 10:45:37 pm
Pretty sure those are kayak paddles, one of which was dipped in yogurt.

Also, I don't know what you delicately-retina'd people are talking about; that color scheme is pretty.

no that's mochi. What she's holding looks considerably similar to the type of mallet the Moon rabbit, companion of chang'e, uses to pound mochi.

Speaking of which I'm highly expecting Chang'e (or ZUN's version of her) to be one of the bosses this time around, if not the stage 6. Goddess of the moon, associated with mochi pounding, seems like a pretty reasonable conclusion.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 22, 2015, 11:00:53 pm
Wow, so they're not really kayak paddles? How weird.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 22, 2015, 11:17:03 pm
As a reminder, Chang'e is confirmed from SSiB to canonically exist in Touhou, and Chang'e isn't her real name. (Eirin's real name isn't Eirin either. Her last name is legit, though)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 22, 2015, 11:29:42 pm
As a reminder, Chang'e is confirmed from SSiB to canonically exist in Touhou, and Chang'e isn't her real name. (Eirin's real name isn't Eirin either. Her last name is legit, though)
She appears in SSiB? Where?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on April 22, 2015, 11:44:31 pm
I think she was referenced either in SSiB itself, or in CiLR, probably the latter. It's been a looong time since I've read SSiB, so I forget, and I never fully read CiLR.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Metaflare on April 22, 2015, 11:50:05 pm
Here you go
(http://i.imgur.com/NGBTI0k.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on April 23, 2015, 12:24:26 am
Ohh riiight... wait, so if Chang'e is imprisoned on the moon, if the game is possibly about Chang'e, then... oh god, did she escape and make it to Gensokyo? That'd be interesting, but I'm just wondering what that'll mean in regards to any Lunarian reactions.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Lishy1 on April 23, 2015, 12:25:46 am
FINALLY he is making a Water-themed Touhou game!

People have been making Marine Benefit haoxes for so long now. Finally it is time to get wet!

New Touhou also makes my pants wet. ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Metaflare on April 23, 2015, 12:32:43 am
But

But it's about the moon  ???
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 23, 2015, 12:40:36 am
FINALLY he is making a Water-themed Touhou game!

Dude, I was kidding about the kayak paddles ...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 23, 2015, 01:02:34 am
(http://i.imgur.com/XeEe6ol.jpg)

I'm curious about this screenshot. Here we see Sanae shooting Kanako's snakes, like she does in UFO as SanaeA. However, the explosion around her is the startup of her Wily Toad spellcard, which in UFO was attached to SanaeB. Does this mean that we're gonna see shottypes merged together like in Ten Desires? It'd make sense, what with there being 4 different characters and all.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on April 23, 2015, 01:12:25 am
It says so in the player select screenshot, so yes.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: An Odd Sea Slug on April 23, 2015, 01:27:51 am
I'm fully onboard for playable Reisen, along with whatever system changes ZUN has in store. I'm hoping this will give the game a freshness this series (imo) has needed for a good bit now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: UTW on April 23, 2015, 01:46:50 am
There are a few dangling threads left over from Bougetsushou and Symposium so I hope ZUN addresses that stuff. I'd love to see the Watatsukis come back, too, but of course I know they're not the most beloved.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mеа on April 23, 2015, 01:52:05 am
This needs to be a thing already (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=49975031)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mero on April 23, 2015, 01:55:45 am
Uh... okay. I'm curious about these new mechanics, when I saw loops being mentioned I immediately thought of actual shmup loops so I look forward to what this game does in terms of gameplay, and playable Reisen is nice I think (new non-Reimu/Marisa options are always welcome, and it means playable Futo/Orin might happen eventually in a shmup!)
I'm feeling kind of iffy about the looks of the game though, colors are all over the place, it's probably just fine I dunno, but something about these screens just feels wrong...

also
>LoLK
lol
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on April 23, 2015, 02:06:00 am
also
>LoLK
lol

Oh hey I wasn't the only one who noticed. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 23, 2015, 02:12:41 am
colors are all over the place

The main colors are variations of gold, maroon, and purple. These all overlap just fine. The pattern is pretty busy, though, which might make these colors seem especially pointed, but they do go together. Like, if someone was wearing a shirt of three solid bars of gold, maroon and purple ... not too shabby. Make those colors into a plaid pattern, though, and suddenly it's garish. So I think ZUN might have gone a little overboard with the busybusy whorls and curves and designs here, sure.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 23, 2015, 03:01:33 am
also
>LoLK
lol

I'm really glad there's "Kingdom" on the title, otherwise it'd be shortened to just LoL :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on April 23, 2015, 03:08:33 am
All ranged shots this time? Good. I hope we never, ever get shitty melee types again.

Also THANKS for that frame. It isn't like I need to look at the Enemy sign or anything.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: N-Forza on April 23, 2015, 03:48:45 am
ZUN noted in the announcement that the screenshots reflect a work in progress, so stuff could even be changed up to the release of the demo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Skullbelly on April 23, 2015, 04:32:32 am
This has probably been pointed out, but Reimu's ribbon in the title screen resembles bunny ears somewhat. How cute.

I think the colours are okay, though the orange stands out a bit and the coupling of the patterns and lotus/logo make it seem busy and almost draw attention away from the game screen.  As it's still in progress the graphics can't be expected to be fine-tuned just yet, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 23, 2015, 05:21:48 am
(Eirin's real name isn't Eirin either. Her last name is legit, though)
It's because we're too impure to pronounce her actual name. Damn filthy earthlings! :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phantasmal on April 23, 2015, 06:02:23 am
 :o
...
...
 :]
Z0mg! Touhou 15!! Hopefully it's going to be something special, but please, no
Subterranean Animism density.
 I'm really excited about Reisen being playable. She was always one of my favorites.
It makes you wonder though, how will playing as Reisen differ from the other characters?

I can't imagine how the bomb spellcard will work, since she's not a boss.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sakurei on April 23, 2015, 06:28:14 am
You've got to be the only person I've seen so far who reacted negatively, lol. I like Youmu a lot, but no Youmu is fine by me if we get Reisen instead - at least, it's not just Reimu, Marisa and Sanae. That would have been boring. Hell, it introduces a new playable character in main games, even better than Youmu or Sakuya again. Youmu has already been playable in a main game before afterall. If anything, Reimu, Marisa, Reisen and Youmu/Sakuya would have been nice.
As for experimenting, the way he announces it sounds to me like he'll massively alter the gameplay, unlike other main games. Could be good or bad (hopefully good, of course), but only time will tell. DDC was a disappointment, but it certainly wasn't because of experimentation.

I know plenty of people who reacted negatively though.

Reisen being a good substitute for Youmu would imply that Reisen = Youmu which is just wrong wrong wrong. Youmu is perfection personified! the game has to be really good for me to consider playing it without Youmu in it. And I really don't care about distributing playability evenly among the girls. Reimu and Marisa are of course a given, but if it was me, Youmu would be in every game. Reisen on the other hand is pretty meh, if you ask me. The same goes for Sanny.

ZUN experiments have shown not to do well with games like ISC and DDC (both of which were bad for more than just experimentation, I admit, but it was definitely a part of it). The last really good game he made was GFW and that was in 2012 I believe, so I'm very doubtful about this game when he declares he's gonna revamp things.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 23, 2015, 06:43:55 am
Speaking of which, TH5 already broke that pattern...
I think the general consensus is that Touhou 6 is a new start with new established rules, so everything before that no longer counts.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: notext on April 23, 2015, 06:49:19 am
ZUN experiments have shown not to do well with games like ISC and DDC (both of which were bad for more than just experimentation, I admit, but it was definitely a part of it). The last really good game he made was GFW and that was in 2012 I believe, so I'm very doubtful about this game when he declares he's gonna revamp things.

Except Great Fairy Wars experimented with the gameplay far more than Double Dealing Character did (and the Shoot the Bullet games were further from being standard shooters than Impossible Spell Card was), so by that metric what you want is more experimentation, not less.

As for the UI, I don't like it, but I also seriously doubt that I'll notice it while playing the game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 23, 2015, 06:57:07 am
Slight OT:  I am pretty sure that having negative opinions is allowed as long as they are proper explained. Just because it is Touhou 15 or Reisen playable, doesn't mean everybody has to agree. Sakuya fans will have similar responses and so on.

Personally I don't care much about the playable command but more about the game looks / playability. I personally own the games like Impossible Spell Card, but never actually finished them. I did always play through the Shmup versions. While 10D and DDC were enjoyable on their own, I still personally also think up to UFO they were enjoyable and post UFO it became bit iffy.

@notext, Fairy wars and such are for me not considered as the main-game, because they are side games/story. Doesn't matter how they experiment but the main games have to be solid. I honestly didn't like the fragment system for bombs and lives in DDC.

Of course we're just basing our opinions on speculations. The demo means nothing for now  as ZUN is trying a daring experiment. He could well ditch it after the demo and do something else. Though usually ZUN goes through with something regardless how the opinions are. As long as the story is sound, I guess that works.




Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: 7TC7 on April 23, 2015, 07:00:29 am
All the hype has been gathered inside me. Reisen might be one of those characters, whose existence I keep forgetting but actually like quite a lot everytime she's around. Game looks great so far from the few screenshots we have, but as those are very likely to still change, it's hard to say much about them.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sakurei on April 23, 2015, 07:25:54 am
Except Great Fairy Wars experimented with the gameplay far more than Double Dealing Character did (and the Shoot the Bullet games were further from being standard shooters than Impossible Spell Card was), so by that metric what you want is more experimentation, not less.

As for the UI, I don't like it, but I also seriously doubt that I'll notice it while playing the game.

With ZUN's recent trends, the stage 5 boss is going to shoot invisible bullets. I'm trying, but I just can't be hopeful for the game. ZUN used to be good with experimentation, having good ideas and he knew how to implement them well, but I haven't seen anything like that in TD, DDC or ISC. Or UFO too, actually. MoF and SA were okay, but not great.

When is old-school touhou coming back?!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 23, 2015, 07:32:28 am
I don't think we're going to have old-school straight forward Touhou with scoring mechanics (PCB?).

Just like how ZUN also has changed the power system from plain 128/Full to 1.00 ~ 4.00 where I believe the damage output is at minimum difference per 'barrier'. I remember myself when I try-hard play IN, being at < Max was noticeable increase in Spell card durations. (Bombing in MoF, lol).

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on April 23, 2015, 07:39:51 am
I can't say much in terms of how enjoyable a game is to some people, mostly because I'm poor at gauging the enjoyability of a game, particularly shmups, which I just sort of enjoy regardless (the only Touhou shmup I don't enjoy is UFO because while the danmaku can be enjoyable, the UFO gimmick sort of makes what on its own is a decent challenge into an annoyance to play, but that's my own opinion and I know some people probably thought UFO was the best thing ever, so eh). The only kind of thing that makes me cringe are things like:

Reisen being a good substitute for Youmu would imply that Reisen = Youmu which is just wrong wrong wrong. Youmu is perfection personified! the game has to be really good for me to consider playing it without Youmu in it. And I really don't care about distributing playability evenly among the girls. Reimu and Marisa are of course a given, but if it was me, Youmu would be in every game. Reisen on the other hand is pretty meh, if you ask me. The same goes for Sanny.

Like this sounds more like a troll thing than anything. The selection of playable characters has barely anything to do with the quality of the game unless you are that diehard of a fan of certain characters (and I'll be honest, the Youmu shottype in TD was okayish at best, but I'd rather use Reimu or Sanae if I were playing TD, even her IN appearance was better (actually she was really good in IN if you were good at using her)). And if so, okay? Hearing this being said as if it were a legitimate measure of game design kind of doesn't sit well with me, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on April 23, 2015, 07:42:39 am
Now that it was mentioned, as much as I like her, I'm not the least bit upset that Sakuya dropped out. I mean, just look at her shottypes in DDC. One is broken, the other is useless. I do remember ZUN saying he can't think of a good way to show her ability in her shottype, even before DDC. So if it means someone more balanced gets a place in the roster, I'm all for it.

(Also,I shuddered when I saw "Youmu-like gimmick" mentioned.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 23, 2015, 07:47:22 am
  • I wonder if this game will have anything to do with the moon at all or if we are led astray. Lunatic =/= Lunar, Kingdom =/= Capital. Reisen is a good indicator that the moon is involved, but Youmu was also a good indicator for more ghosts in TD as well... Maybe we are just going somewhere craaazy? The colors would be good indicator, if anything. And ... Reisen fit's crazy quite well, too. She is the Lunatic Moon Rabbit after all (not Lunar)

Reimu's pounding mochi in the title screen.  So odds are pretty good it'll have something to do with the moon.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on April 23, 2015, 07:48:35 am
Reimu's pounding mochi in the title screen.  So odds are pretty good it'll have something to do with the moon.

Not only that, but if you look closely at the title screen, you can see faded silhouette of the moon, or what looks like the moon in the night sky.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 23, 2015, 07:49:26 am
Also, Reisen's storyline bit in the OP says "The moon's power can only be opposed using the very same.
Eirin's medicine has the power to make its drinker experience the future."

So Reisen is opposing the Moon's power using her own Moon power.

Unless the Moon is a red herring, this could also imply the villain is a Lunarian.  (although more likely there's a red herring and at most we'll get a Lunarian for the penultimate boss or the extra stage boss, if at all)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 23, 2015, 07:51:49 am
FINALLY he is making a Water-themed Touhou game!

People have been making Marine Benefit haoxes for so long now. Finally it is time to get wet!

New Touhou also makes my pants wet. ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)
Dude, I was kidding about the kayak paddles ...

Real talk, there's a good chance for the story to be sea-related. Some Japanese fans have been reminded of another kanju (same pronunciation, different kanji), the "tide-ebbing jewel" of Japanese mythology.

In the story of Hoori (a.k.a. the husband of Toyohime and father-in-law of Yorihime), he was gifted with two jewels of the Dragon Palace, one that can raise water, and another that can drain water.

In later folktales, these jewels also aided Empress Jingū in conquering Korea.

The English wikipedia entry on the jewels is surprisingly elaborate and well-researched, especially considering there isn't a Japanese entry for them. The only downside is it doesn't mention those more folkloric Empress Jingū tales.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_jewels
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: LunaWillow on April 23, 2015, 07:57:36 am
For me, only TD is the game that is not enjoyable. Patterns are ok, music is good, shottypes are fun, but the trance gimmick and lack of lives makes it very, very frustraiting. I had a lot of fun playing ISC, and I can compare it to DS/StB in the level of enjoyability. And I also like DDC and it's unic shottypes.

I also like to not say things like "DDC, TD and ISC were bad". It sounds like you give the game only legitimate judgement, instead of giving your own opinion. I'd rather use something like "I think DDC, TD and ISC were bad".
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 23, 2015, 08:12:20 am
Remember what happened last time we got into a "war" with Sakurei over Touhou 14.3?  Touhou's dead to her already, so don't bother.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 23, 2015, 08:20:00 am
Reisen being a good substitute for Youmu would imply that Reisen = Youmu which is just wrong wrong wrong.
Never implied that; there isn't much to substitute when Youmu has only been in one single game on her own and hasn't come back in the one after it, anyway. Reisen would be a substitute if Youmu was a regular and suddenly wasn't here with Reisen in her place, but that is not the case. Also,
Like this sounds more like a troll thing than anything. The selection of playable characters has barely anything to do with the quality of the game unless you are that diehard of a fan of certain characters (and I'll be honest, the Youmu shottype in TD was okayish at best, but I'd rather use Reimu or Sanae if I were playing TD, even her IN appearance was better (actually she was really good in IN if you were good at using her)). And if so, okay? Hearing this being said as if it were a legitimate measure of game design kind of doesn't sit well with me, though.


Except Great Fairy Wars experimented with the gameplay far more than Double Dealing Character did (and the Shoot the Bullet games were further from being standard shooters than Impossible Spell Card was), so by that metric what you want is more experimentation, not less.
Personally GFW and StB/DS are some of my favourite games in the series specifically because of how different the gameplay is compared to the main games, so here's hoping that ZUN's experiment with TH15 works out here. I didn't enjoy ISC much, though.

-snip-
Interesting. And here everybody's thinking the theme is about Lunarians, but it could be... sea-related? Huh.
I don't remember ever hearing of anything specific about Toyohime's husband though, not even a name... Could you tell me where you've seen that?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on April 23, 2015, 08:29:00 am
Interesting. And here everybody's thinking the theme is about Lunarians, but it could be... sea-related? Huh.

"The lunar maria are large, dark, basaltic plains on Earth's Moon, formed by ancient volcanic eruptions. They were dubbed maria, Latin for "seas", by early astronomers who mistook them for actual seas."

Maybe it's both? The Hoori story would still be related to the Lunarians anyway, it would seem.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sakurei on April 23, 2015, 08:54:31 am
Like this sounds more like a troll thing than anything. The selection of playable characters has barely anything to do with the quality of the game unless you are that diehard of a fan of certain characters

You don't know me, do you?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 23, 2015, 08:59:36 am
"The lunar maria are large, dark, basaltic plains on Earth's Moon, formed by ancient volcanic eruptions. They were dubbed maria, Latin for "seas", by early astronomers who mistook them for actual seas."

Maybe it's both? The Hoori story would still be related to the Lunarians anyway, it would seem.
Well now that I think of it, aren't there also Lunar Seas on the Far Side of the Moon in Touhou? Could very well be both, going by that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: 7TC7 on April 23, 2015, 09:14:24 am
Reimu's pounding mochi in the title screen.  So odds are pretty good it'll have something to do with the moon.

You say that, but, and I know this is kinda nitpicky, there is really no telling if she is pounding mochi or a spirit/ghost. Or ghost-mochi. I know it's mostly the face and the immediate thought of the return of the smug ghost from SA's title screen, but really, with this art style, you can only tell from context.

Not only that, but if you look closely at the title screen, you can see faded silhouette of the moon, or what looks like the moon in the night sky.

That on the other hand is something I didn't notice and is really cool. Maybe it will be about the moon. For, like, the first three stages.

But on a more serious note, much earlier in the thread somebody mentioned, how potentially sad it would be if Sakuya wasn't playable in the game that could finally explain her connections to the Lunarians. Well, nothing says she couldn't still be a possible boss.

And on another note, because it was also mentioned in regards to the titular jewel. Isn't there also some synonymous meening between the Moon Kingdom and the Dragon Palace? Or is that something I'm just jumbling up in my mind? I now it's supposed to be underwater, but Iku came from the sky and there is no huge bodies of water to fit a palace inside in Gensokyo, so...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on April 23, 2015, 09:16:12 am
when he declares he's gonna revamp things.
Because he isn't already doing this in every game?

With ZUN's recent trends, the stage 5 boss is going to shoot invisible bullets
Yeah. How dare he make something like that. Like who even plays this literal turd of a game? (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Spell_Cards/Stage_5)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on April 23, 2015, 09:21:21 am
Well now that I think of it, aren't there also Lunar Seas on the Far Side of the Moon in Touhou? Could very well be both, going by that.

I looked it up on the wiki, and yes it does. Something to note, to bypass the barrier around the Lunar Capital you'd have to follow "an invisible predetermined route through the various seas of the Moon".  Maybe that'll happen in the game?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 23, 2015, 09:23:38 am
But on a more serious note, much earlier in the thread somebody mentioned, how potentially sad it would be if Sakuya wasn't playable in the game that could finally explain her connections to the Lunarians. Well, nothing says she couldn't still be a possible boss.
While it would be really cool to have that connection finally explained, I feel like we won't ever get an explanation for it (similarly with that of Maribel and Yukari.) ZUN did say that it was so big that if he talks about that connection, then the games would all be reduced to one. Could just be ZUN being ZUN, but well...

I looked it up on the wiki, and yes it does. Something to note, to bypass the barrier around the Lunar Capital you'd have to follow "an invisible predetermined route through the various seas of the Moon".  Maybe that'll happen in the game?
inb4 the game is about neither the moon or the sea because ZUN and we're just speculating way off
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Darkness1 on April 23, 2015, 09:25:11 am
Hmm, the game seems to have an "experiencing past and future"theme... perhaps there'll be time loops.
pc98 confirmed :V

Pretty hyped for a new main touhou game, and a lunarian theme on top, sweet!

Even if she may not appear as a boss, I hope Sakuya makes an appearance somehow, or just a character from IN or two. Kaguya seems plausible, atleast if the game theme is what I feel it could be, plus Kaguya knows time manipulation which is cool. :3
I don't think the Watatsuki's would appear as anything but EX personally.
Loving Reimu's appearance in the screenshots.

Also, am I the only one who really enjoyed TD? I wonder...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 23, 2015, 09:36:36 am
Plot twist: Sakuya's the final boss. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 23, 2015, 09:42:35 am
Also, am I the only one who really enjoyed TD? I wonder...
No, I really enjoyed TD myself; especially the EX stage. Much more enjoyable overall (to me) than DDC was.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sakurei on April 23, 2015, 10:21:21 am
Yeah. How dare he make something like that. Like who even plays this literal turd of a game? (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Spell_Cards/Stage_5)

Reisen's bullets don#t have a hitbox though. that is what I mean when I say invisible bullets - bullets with a hitbox.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 23, 2015, 11:06:32 am
You don't know me, do you?

For those who don't know, Sakurei enjoys saying mildly provocative things to get a reaction. And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know. Take the bait at your discretion.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Espadas on April 23, 2015, 11:08:44 am
HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!

MAIN GAME ANNOUNCED! AND SANAE RETURN!!!!!  :toot:
ZUN, one word..... THANKS!

Really curious about the "big changes", for ZUN himself to define them as such must be something really different from the usual gimmick....

Reisen is quite the welcome news, i like her and a completely new PC is refreshing.

Holy... bright frame is bright! Not a big problem for me, and this IS a work-in-progress demo, but i hope ZUN tones the colors down a bit.

Personally, i greatly enjoy EVERY game simply because the base gameplay is still the same and the gimmicks are simply an added layer of difficulty/complexity to it, making every game both similar and unique at the same time.

SUMMER, COME FAST PLEASE!!!


P.S. Sakurei, from how you worded your comments it looks like your problem with the games is not a matter of "innovations" but if Youmu is playable or not. Considering she was playable in 2 out of 9 (not counting pc-98 era) of the main games, isn't this "condition for a game being good" a bit too much restrictive? After all, Touhou is infamous for its enormous cast and lightly-defined characters.... I too have some chars i like more than others (heck, one of my favourite is Yuyuko, and she certainly isn't among the most "playable"  :V) but that doesn't influence my enjoyment of the game, it's just an added bonus if they appears.

EDIT: and if all you said was just to provoke reactions, well i guess you succeeded, you not-troll!  :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on April 23, 2015, 11:14:34 am
And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know.
well he's right about that one at least lol
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 23, 2015, 11:22:54 am
Heh. I loved GFW, too.

But yeah. Anyone making absolute statements about matters of taste might, just maybe, be trying to get a rise out of you. Just throwin' that out there.

You say that, but, and I know this is kinda nitpicky, there is really no telling if she is pounding mochi or a spirit/ghost. Or ghost-mochi. I know it's mostly the face and the immediate thought of the return of the smug ghost from SA's title screen, but really, with this art style, you can only tell from context.

Er, no, I think it's almost 100% certain there is implied mochi-pounding here. HAUNTED mochi.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 23, 2015, 11:50:55 am
Interesting. And here everybody's thinking the theme is about Lunarians, but it could be... sea-related? Huh.
I don't remember ever hearing of anything specific about Toyohime's husband though, not even a name... Could you tell me where you've seen that?
While the Lunar Capital does not display an overt sea motif, the Touhou lore has repeated associated it with the Dragon Palace in the sea (see how CiLR retells the Urashimataro legend), until in the SoPM interview, ZUN flat out said the Dragon Palace is in Lunar Capital.

A possible but overly formulaic plot for Touhou 15 would actually be: a Lunarian in exile wanted to settle down in Gensokyo, and tried to make it better resemble her Lunar Capital home by creating seas in Gensokyo using the tide jewel.

Re: Toyohime's husband
Well, the Watatsuki sisters are based on Toyotama-hime and Tamayori-hime from Japanese mythology about the origin of the imperial lineage. The two goddesses are dragon (or shark or crocodile, depending on interpretation) daughters of a sea god who live in the Dragon Palace. Toyotama-hime married Hoori, and Tamayori-hime raised and married their son, giving birth to the first Emperor. In Chapter 1 of CiLR, Eirin hinted at this complicated familial relationship, although last time I checked the wiki, the English translation of this part was a bit confused. You can read this entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoori) for a brief summary.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 23, 2015, 11:53:54 am
For those who don't know, Sakurei enjoys saying mildly provocative things to get a reaction. And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know. Take the bait at your discretion.
And like I said, Touhou's dead to her already.  The last time some of us got into a "fight" with her about 14.3, mods had to do a "mass deletion" of threads, so just let her be.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 23, 2015, 12:45:44 pm
And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know.
... I rank GFW way above DDC, what is it supposed to tell..?

-snip-
Very interesting, thank you for the explanation. I actually was not aware at all of the origins behind the Watatsukis sisters; I did remember the part about the "complicated familial relationship" but never thought much of it since I didn't have much to put it in context.
I like your theory for the plot also, it actually really sounds like the kind of plot you'd have in a Touhou game.


Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 23, 2015, 01:02:17 pm
Not to mention the fact that the basaltic plains the cover the Moon in patches are known as "lunar seas", and they've been called seas since long, long before anyone got a good look at the moon. I'm not sure if this was a part of ancient Asian astronomy, though.

e: Aaaand someone already mentioned that bit. NVM!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sakurei on April 23, 2015, 01:09:49 pm
For those who don't know, Sakurei enjoys saying mildly provocative things to get a reaction. And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know. Take the bait at your discretion.

I was more referring to the fact that Youmu > all for me by a lot. my degree of Youmu fangirlism is off the charts, so to say

GFW is legitimately better than DDC though. That has nothing to do with baiting. It is my good and honest opinion. And many people agree with me on it, apparently.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 23, 2015, 01:13:37 pm
Hurrah for you, then.

Well, the Watatsuki sisters are based on Toyotama-hime and Tamayori-hime from Japanese mythology about the origin of the imperial lineage. The two goddesses are dragon (or shark or crocodile, depending on interpretation) daughters of a sea god who live in the Dragon Palace. Toyotama-hime married Hoori, and Tamayori-hime raised and married their son, giving birth to the first Emperor. In Chapter 1 of CiLR, Eirin hinted at this complicated familial relationship, although last time I checked the wiki, the English translation of this part was a bit confused. You can read this entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoori) for a brief summary.

I really need to read up more on the Watas I guess.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 23, 2015, 01:16:58 pm
And many people agree with me on it, apparently.
How about you point out all the people or the place where they are agreeing with you instead of simply saying it, which anyone can do?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: LunaWillow on April 23, 2015, 01:20:13 pm
GFW is legitimately better than DDC though. That has nothing to do with baiting. It is my good and honest opinion. And many people agree with me on it, apparently.
And I must disagree. GFW is too difficult for me to be enjoyable. Argument "but you can freeze bullets!" does not speak to me. Just look at fairies last spell on lunatic! Look at this! And for a moment they shoots fireballs ONLY. And they cannot be froze. Thus, I enjoyed DDC much, much more (even though I suck at getting 2.0 bonuses).
But that's only my opinion...

Btw. we should probably end this off-topic by now...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Nameschonvergeben on April 23, 2015, 01:37:34 pm
How about you point out all the people or the place where they are agreeing with you instead of simply saying it, which anyone can do?
Read the thread
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plastic Vortex on April 23, 2015, 01:53:04 pm
New game with Reisen?

YESSSSSSS.

Hmm if the game is gonna involve Hoori, then perhaps Konohana Sakuya would make an appearance?? Konohana Sakuya is the mother of Hoori and was mentioned in Mokou's backstory. (unless it was Iwanaga hime)

Although I highly doubt that because if it has connections to the sea/moon, the goddess of Mount Fuji would appear.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 23, 2015, 02:15:18 pm
New game with Reisen?

YESSSSSSS.

Hmm if the game is gonna involve Hoori, then perhaps Konohana Sakuya would make an appearance?? Konohana Sakuya is the mother of Hoori and was mentioned in Mokou's backstory. (unless it was Iwanaga hime)

Although I highly doubt that because if it has connections to the sea/moon, the goddess of Mount Fuji would appear.
Both Konohana-Sakuya-hime and Iwanaga-hime have been mentioned in last month's Forbidden Scrollery.

I don't think these mythological figures will appear in the games; rather, these callbacks, including Mokou in ULiL and astronomy in WaHH signify a general return of motifs from the Bougetsushou era.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GoKonRin on April 23, 2015, 02:44:25 pm
Doesn't seem like this has been mentioned in the thread after a quick read through.

The following paragraphs are in the first chapter of CoLA:

Quote
With the 12 volumes I have on hand, and the three volumes there, that's a total of 15 volumes combined. I have no doubt that this is a set of 15 volumes. The shikigami of the outside world are the same as the ones in Gensokyo after all. With computers, F represents 15, and F is the state wherein everything is compounded. It was written that when everything becomes F, the highest value is held. I think that it's natural for 15 to have power; even in ancient times, 15 meant perfection in this country. The same reason the full moon is also known as the fifteenth night. Computers must be familiars that have resulted from the ideas of the East and the beauty of the moon.

Marisa asked me what I was thinking about as she lined up the three books. Through Marisa's nonchalant actions, I realized something else. The numbers on the books, 13, 14, and 15, when lined up, makes 131415. If the 1 in front is removed, it then depicts the number that represents a perfect circle, 3.1415. This also means a full moon. And thus my theory that the familiars of the outside world use the power of the moon becomes truth. I wanted to research more in regards to the shikigami of the outside world, but to do that, I required these books.

Lots and lots of links between the number 15 and the moon
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mikuru on April 23, 2015, 03:03:37 pm
This is particularly interesting because Sakuya's name is written with the kanji 十六夜 -- sixteenth night. If ZUN is thinking about the above numerology, dare we hope for the truth about Sakuya to be revealed next game?

Also, sixteen is twice eight, and TH16 would be the third game of a trilogy, as TH08 was. Perhaps the variations in the playable character roster are all setting things up for another IN-like game -- the teams could be Reimu/Sanae, Marisa/Alice, Sakuya/Reisen and Youmu/Komachi. Now that would be awesome.

Now that it was mentioned, as much as I like her, I'm not the least bit upset that Sakuya dropped out. I mean, just look at her shottypes in DDC. One is broken, the other is useless. I do remember ZUN saying he can't think of a good way to show her ability in her shottype, even before DDC. So if it means someone more balanced gets a place in the roster, I'm all for it.
I'm perfectly happy with how her shot-type was handled in PCB. He should just go back to that :)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: snowflake247 on April 23, 2015, 03:43:26 pm
A possible but overly formulaic plot for Touhou 15 would actually be: a Lunarian in exile wanted to settle down in Gensokyo, and tried to make it better resemble her Lunar Capital home by creating seas in Gensokyo using the tide jewel.

That sounds a little like Marine Benefit in my opinion. (MB wasn't about a Lunarian, but the general plot was similar: someone creates a sea in Gensokyo and this causes an incident.)

I'm perfectly happy with how her shot-type was handled in PCB. He should just go back to that :)

PCB SakuyaB was awesome, probably my favorite shottype in the game (tied with ReimuB.) It would be great if ZUN made a shottype like that again.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 23, 2015, 04:36:50 pm
You say that, but, and I know this is kinda nitpicky, there is really no telling if she is pounding mochi or a spirit/ghost. Or ghost-mochi. I know it's mostly the face and the immediate thought of the return of the smug ghost from SA's title screen, but really, with this art style, you can only tell from context.

It's some kind of sperm youkai and Reimu is keyakking.

At any rate, like I said in the next post, the "Moon's power" is identified as the antagonistic force  in Reisen's story text, too.

While it would be really cool to have that connection finally explained, I feel like we won't ever get an explanation for it (similarly with that of Maribel and Yukari.) ZUN did say that it was so big that if he talks about that connection, then the games would all be reduced to one. Could just be ZUN being ZUN, but well...

I recall ZUN saying the Reduced to One and I recall it being in regards to Sakuya, but I don't recall any mentions of Lunarians during the fact (IE, any confirmation that Sakuya actually DID have a connection to the moon).  Is this recollection correct?  Been a while.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 23, 2015, 05:19:33 pm
Lots and lots of links between the number 15 and the moon

That is really interesting. Really nice to see how ZUN ties in the literary narrative with the games, as always, but 15 is already looking promising.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Nimono on April 23, 2015, 05:19:53 pm
  • I wonder if this game will have anything to do with the moon at all or if we are led astray. Lunatic =/= Lunar, Kingdom =/= Capital. Reisen is a good indicator that the moon is involved, but Youmu was also a good indicator for more ghosts in TD as well... Maybe we are just going somewhere craaazy? The colors would be good indicator, if anything. And ... Reisen fit's crazy quite well, too. She is the Lunatic Moon Rabbit after all (not Lunar)
I'd just like to point out that while "lunatic" may not directly be "lunar", both words come from the same base of "luna", moon. It appears "Lunatic" comes from an old latin word meaning "moonstruck", which means pretty much the exact same thing as "lunatic"; all relating to the moon due to, if I recall correctly, an ancient correlation between insanity and the moon. Heck, we've seen that in Touhou before- Stage 6B of Imperishable Night brings it up on a few teams! Knowing how all the English names still relate to the plot of the games, I would not be surprised if "Lunatic" in this situation referred to the moon.


Furthermore, ignoring the fact that the little story snippet we've seen thus far outright states the moon's power is behind the game's plot, the fact that Reisen's involved is absolute proof that the plot relates to the moon- note how the past 3 'guests' were involved because of a relation with the incident. Youmu in Ten Desires because the plot related to spirits, and thus affected her home, and Sakuya in DDC because she was personally affected- otherwise, she wouldn't have been involved! From this, we can then assume that Reisen's involved here because the incident relates to her background and/or her home.



Also regarding the title screen, I actually thought Reimu was holding a giant spirit paintbrush until I read the thread more!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on April 23, 2015, 05:40:48 pm
Heck, we've seen that in Touhou before- Stage 6B of Imperishable Night brings it up on a few teams!

There's also Imperishable Nights's Extra Stage flavor text, "The moon drives people mad".
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on April 23, 2015, 05:44:50 pm
While it would be really cool to have that connection finally explained, I feel like we won't ever get an explanation for it (similarly with that of Maribel and Yukari.) ZUN did say that it was so big that if he talks about that connection, then the games would all be reduced to one. Could just be ZUN being ZUN, but well...

I recall ZUN saying the Reduced to One and I recall it being in regards to Sakuya, but I don't recall any mentions of Lunarians during the fact (IE, any confirmation that Sakuya actually DID have a connection to the moon).  Is this recollection correct?  Been a while.
Was there a source for this thing? I looked in the wiki but there aren't any near the quote, despite being something apparently important.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Raikaria on April 23, 2015, 09:21:01 pm
ZUNart seems to have gone backwards compared to 14.

Return of Sanae and Reisen? Interesting.

But as per usual; I'm more interested in the new characters to analyze and such. I'm not too fussed about the old characters we know about already.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sixten on April 23, 2015, 09:24:27 pm
So busy hunting for Uzuki (Kancolle's rabbit girl) that I completely missed Reisen stepping into the spotlight. Reisen is more awesome than Uzuki will ever be. You won't see me making an Uzuki fanbook.

Even if this is the first canonical appearance I can remember of Reisen with a gun, I feel like she's had the gun all along. It just feels right.

I was hoping Youmu would be playable in the game as well (think of all the new Youmu/Reisen illustrations that would appear), but you can't have everything. Youmu might still make a surprise appearance, you never know.

When playing Toho danmaku games I've always chosen Reimu by default. This time, it will be different.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on April 23, 2015, 10:13:16 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/WyMPYey.jpg)

Can someone say the name of this spell card? At least the part in katakana, the kanji being more complex that you can't see the strokes in this low res image. The best i can get is イーク[missing section]ツ[missing]ンク, someone could get to fill the blanks.

Edit: ↓ well maybe it was a recent addition to the op, i sure did miss it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on April 23, 2015, 10:33:28 pm
Can someone say the name of this spell card? At least the part in katakana, the kanji being more complex that you can't see the strokes in this low res image. The best i can get is イーク[missing section]ツ[missing]ンク, someone could get to fill the blanks.

The enemy spell card in a screenshot is Bullet Sign "Eagle Shooting".

I assume its that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 23, 2015, 11:34:55 pm

Even if this is the first canonical appearance I can remember of Reisen with a gun, I feel like she's had the gun all along. It just feels right.

IIRC, the lunar rabbits in SSiB had guns.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: FLASH on April 24, 2015, 12:35:16 am
ha! i had a feeling we had touhou 15 coming and not another spinoff game! great news (yeah i'm late to the party) :derp: now what can i say that hasn't been discussed by everyone already...?

-it has to be really very different from the traditionnal games for him to speak of it as a "big thing" in such a way and going out of its way to say it's experimental in the game's announcment. curious to see what that means. what i think though, is that this one will be like this because it's the 20th anniversary game, like Fantasmagoria. i don't think whatever radically new gimmicks it have will carry over to the future titles (i hope the 6 level format at least remains there as it's part of the serie's identity at least for me).

-definitely enjoying Reimu's badass pose in the dialogue picture  :D i was like "damn", first thing i noticed lol! so far i like the art better than DDC in this one: it seem more like the hallmark ZUN-art, as it was at the time of TD. the DDC characters were just... weird. i don't know they weren't ugly or anything but they just seemed like something was a bit off compared to all the other games.

-couldn't care less for playable Reisen (sorry, i just don't find her character all that interesting. personnal preferences i guess, heh), but lots of you seem very hyped to see her in so good for you! plus she fits perectly for the games' theme so no problem.
but i call OBJECTION ! on breaking the rule of humans as main characters: touhou 15 is definitely looking to be a non-traditionnal game in the series, so i don't think it counts in that case. again, Phantasmagoria was also a full-number game, yet it had playable youkai, no 6 stage format, ect... because it was just a special case for the anniversary.

-one thing that i'm pleased to see though is ZUN revisiting the whole moon motif. story and atmosphere wise however it's one of the most striking, deep and intense part of the ZUN mythology in my opinion, i can't really explain why i think it just works well with his style of storytelling, atmosphere, characters ect... SSIB or IN for exemple are some of the best exemples of the spirit and atmsophere of touhou in my opinion.
also, i'm just telling you if the Watatsuki sisters are somehow into this, i'm gonna go ballistic or explode or something!  :3
though i only see them as extra stage boss. or even more likely: if they appear at all, they'll just have a cameo appearance in the ending and not as ennemy. even that'd still be cool though!

could this also mean the coming back of IN style music? with the glorious screeching trumpets and everything? yes please, ZUN, don't mind if you do!  :D


oh, and one last thing: for the Last anniversary in PoFV, ZUN did bring back an iconic PC-98 character, that used to be playable, had green hair, and was a fan favourite...
now let's see, who else could he bring back this time around.... hmmmm....  :V :V :V :V :V
(not a chance...)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2015, 12:42:56 am
While it would be really cool to have that connection finally explained, I feel like we won't ever get an explanation for it (similarly with that of Maribel and Yukari.) ZUN did say that it was so big that if he talks about that connection, then the games would all be reduced to one. Could just be ZUN being ZUN, but well...
"All games reduced to one" is a Western community myth. All ZUN said was:

1) In a pre-IN message on his bulletin board, he said he should also write down Sakuya's backstory, which of course he never did except providing a few theories in PMiSS;
2) Sakuya's IN profile mentioned that Eirin was slightly surprised when she saw Sakuya, but this element was not brought up in the game story itself.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on April 24, 2015, 01:45:19 am
Honestly, I'm really curious now. Does ZUN even remember that it's the 20th anniversary? I haven't heard about him commenting on that subject anywhere. And IIRC he almost forgot about the 10th anniversary, though that could be my brain making things up. Is it possible that this is just another game?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2015, 01:50:11 am
Those are the kind of things he won't forget. Yes, he talked about it more than once in the monthly Nikenme Radio stream.

ZUN calls this game "the game for Touhou Project's 20th anniversary (not really)".
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 24, 2015, 04:05:15 am
To add more likeliness that this game is both water and moon-related, check out the word "ultramarine" in the Japanese title.  It comes from a Latin word meaning "beyond the sea." On the moon, certain parts of it are called "seas" by astronomers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maria_on_the_Moon
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 24, 2015, 05:45:17 am
"All games reduced to one" is a Western community myth.
So that part of the wiki is just... made up? Geez... And here I thought it was supposed to be reliable...

could this also mean the coming back of IN style music? with the glorious screeching trumpets and everything? yes please, ZUN, don't mind if you do!  :D
Yes please, give me more of the glorious ZUNpets!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 24, 2015, 05:47:57 am
To add more likeliness that this game is both water and moon-related, check out the word "ultramarine" in the Japanese title.  It comes from a Latin word meaning "beyond the sea." On the moon, certain parts of it are called "seas" by astronomers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maria_on_the_Moon
Was already  (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18338.msg1179661.html#msg1179661)mentioned.

So that part of the wiki is just... made up? Geez... And here I thought it was supposed to be reliable...
Wikis have never been a reliable source in general. Never blindly trust :V

Also regarding Sakuya, ZUN will never explain her like he barely explains stuff, especially now that Sakuya isn't even playable for this game. Damn you ZUN :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 24, 2015, 05:53:24 am
Wikis have never been a reliable source in general. Never blindly trust :V
Well, I usually verify the stuff I read there by checking the source, or looking up the original material - for example when I read the unsourced claim that Akyuu described youkai as stronger than they actually are in the Perfect Memento, I read the entire thing to find where that claim was.
It's just hard to find material on an unsourced statement about something ZUN allegedly said, so I figured I should just take their word for it.
But turns out they just made it up for whatever reason.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 24, 2015, 07:15:06 am
Was already  (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18338.msg1179661.html#msg1179661)mentioned.
Wikis have never been a reliable source in general. Never blindly trust :V
Doesn't mean everything it says cannot be trusted.  You can't, like, accuse it of being unreliable and lying when it says the Earth is round, can't you?  It's still one of the best sources of information for first timers of certain subjects.?

And didn't see the "sea thing" earlier when I wanted to make my post, even though I searched, albeit not seriously...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on April 24, 2015, 07:35:18 am
So, first, Mokou playable in Urban Legend in Limbo and now Reisen (first playable non-human in main game) Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
That seems pretty crazy. So, what are the rest of the Eientei crew up to?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: the old guy on April 24, 2015, 09:29:48 am
Youmu is perfection personified! the game has to be really good for me to consider playing it without Youmu in it.
I'm Youmu fan too, but i really hope that your just joking, because as awesome as she is, even Youmu isn't perfect. (The girl's a HALF-GHOST, and yet somehow she's AFRAID of half of her!)

As for the game itself, it sounds it like it will be good, and...
.....that's all i have to say about it.
 \:V/
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2015, 09:56:24 am
To add more likeliness that this game is both water and moon-related, check out the word "ultramarine" in the Japanese title.  It comes from a Latin word meaning "beyond the sea." On the moon, certain parts of it are called "seas" by astronomers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maria_on_the_Moon
First of all, everyone who read SSiB knows the moon seas are composed of real water in Touhou. Or more accurately, the seas in the "fantasy" version of the moon are, because that's how people imagined it.

In addition, I gotta point out, "ultramarine" was just the word I chose to translate the color 紺. Color words are generally tricky to translate between cultures. The memory-recalling jewel was supposed to be 紺碧 in color, which is a dark blue color, used to describe the oceans, the evening and dawning skies, and gems. I knew the etymology of "ultramarine" (having just read about it a few weeks ago), I knew it's safe to use a word that suggests both the sea and lapis lazuli, while another option, "navy blue" is too modern (originating from British Royal Navy uniforms).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 24, 2015, 10:25:28 am
So that part of the wiki is just... made up? Geez... And here I thought it was supposed to be reliable...

Where is that statement of "Reduced to one" in the wiki in the first place, anyways?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Flandre5carlet on April 24, 2015, 10:32:21 am
Where is that statement of "Reduced to one" in the wiki in the first place, anyways?

On Sakuya's profile, under Relationships > Residents of Eientei. Speaking of, I went ahead and added a citation needed note to it...
Quote
Also, ZUN said that "if I talk about the relation between these two, then the games would all be reduced to one, so I left it out". On how this will be portrayed in future works is uncertain.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on April 24, 2015, 10:39:38 am
On Sakuya's profile, under Relationships > Residents of Eientei. Speaking of, I went ahead and added a citation needed note to it...

The wording of it seems like it might be a left over Tosiaki edit that was never caught and thus should probably be deleted. While Tosiaki wouldn't go so far as purposefully lie about ZUN stating something. hearing "He said ZUN said" and thinking that just means "ZUN said" on the other hand is quite likely (especially since a lot of what Tosiaki did was just translate speculation and un-sourced stuff from Japan's wiki equivalent).

Maybe I'll look into that this weekend if no one else does.  I'm lazy in my old age.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2015, 11:24:26 am
The original quote was from a BBS message. I knew I had read what it actually said before, but somehow I never realized that this misconception even existed. It should be removed because that's not what it says at all.

Quote
設定的な質問は許されるのかわかりませんが
ネタバレ回避のために、えらい迂遠な言い回しをしますがご容赦。
咲夜を見てひどく驚く彼女が驚いた理由についてなのですが、
それって紅魔郷登場時の咲夜の目の色と関係があったりするのでしょうか?
今回のトップ絵も然り。
Quote
防災の日 投稿者 ZUN@管理人
>咲夜を見てひどく驚く彼女が驚いた理由についてなのですが、
それは一つのゲームになる位長いので割愛。
目の色はゲームを遊んでいただければわかりますよ。

The question was actually about whether the statement in Eirin's profile was related to why Sakuya's eyes are red both in EoSD and in ZUN's most recent drawing for 3 million hits (http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/pic/top/top040830.jpg).
ZUN's answer is that "It would become about an entire game's worth to explain [the line] so I didn't. About the eye color, perhaps you can understand by playing through the game."

The accepted explanation in the fandom for the line is the Sakuyahime explanation. As for the answer to the actual question, ZUN is saying that Sakuya's eyes really did also turn red from madness after looking at the real moon, and he had drawn the picture soon after IN was released (2004/09/03).

And lastly, I can source this all back to his old BBS based on the relation to the 3000000-hit picture.
http://web.archive.org/web/20040905235851/http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/cgi-bin/bbs/minibbs.cgi
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on April 24, 2015, 11:28:21 am
Doesn't mean everything it says cannot be trusted.  You can't, like, accuse it of being unreliable and lying when it says the Earth is round, can't you?  It's still one of the best sources of information for first timers of certain subjects.?
During my Uni life, if we cited Wiki sources, we received -1 point penalty on our mark.

Anyway, I said 'don't blindly trust'. That means if someone is written on the wiki, doesn't mean it is necessary truth or false. Unless the information is verified and checked based on actual sources or solid proof, it will just remain 'available information'.

Slight OT: I had an interesting discussion on IRC with someone regarding PMiSS. Person's argument was that PMiSS != canon material, because it is written from Akyuu's point of view and analysis. I first argued it has to be canon because ZUN said so, but the actual point was that it remains Akyuu family's history. As there are no other "sources" to gauge the Touhou's, it is our only available information. Therefore, PMiSS isn't necessary the absolute truth regarding character personality. Neither is SoPM. And perhaps even Grimmoire of Marisa can be considered questionable.

Does this mean we should reject everything on Wiki? No. Of course not. That is how it goes in the world of science, someone concludes and it remains "valid" until it is proven otherwise or perhaps even empowered/strengthened.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2015, 11:40:47 am
As for that point on PMiSS (and most other works), they're very obviously canon material, but the ranking of evidence is what's important to keep in mind, and that can get complicated. ZUN simply saying something himself might have high precedence, but there's also the problem where if he says something off the cuff, he might not have thought about it too hard. Because of this, what he writes down without a character narrator tends to be quite strong. For another seemingly-strong kind of evidence, there are character actions and events that actually take place. These are generally regarded as very reliable, but even this is somewhat affected by which work it's in -- ZUN writes in different flavors for different works, and on top of this things that appear in manga can be affected by seemingly harmless artist choices that fans run off with (cough stuff in ssib).

Where works like PMiSS and SoPM rank, is that they're being fed through the lens of Akyuu, and so narration is done with this in mind. It's also being edited in-universe by Yukari, and so this has to be kept in mind too. However, if ZUN is writing down information about a character, the intention is to disseminate information about the character. The books aren't just ZUN playing a joke by having a whole book where Akyuu just writes down whatever she feels like, that's incredibly pointless. The main purpose is to give information, and as such you can still think of it just as valid as anything else ZUN would say; it's simply colored through the lens of a character's perspective, and that gives it depth as a book on top of just being a raw encyclopedia. Yes, you have to be able to figure out what is being affected by that lens, but big deal, that's part of the fun.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 24, 2015, 01:03:14 pm
and on top of this things that appear in manga can be affected by seemingly harmless artist choices that fans run off with (cough stuff in ssib)

if you want to take my youmoobs you will have to pry them from my cold dead hands
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 24, 2015, 01:33:03 pm
During my Uni life, if we cited Wiki sources, we received -1 point penalty on our mark.

...because you're expected to cite the sources provided by the wiki, not the wiki itself.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on April 24, 2015, 01:36:06 pm
...because you're expected to cite the sources provided by the wiki, not the wiki itself.

Exactly, which is difficult to do on the Touhou wiki if you can't read Japanese; you just have to trust the translations of the cites are accurate (with a pinch of salt I guess).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Firestorm29 on April 24, 2015, 02:18:46 pm
Ya know, I've been putting some thinking into what this new system is, and I wanted to throw out my thoughts:

Looking at the picture, the boss is still getting shot and has a timer with the Chapter Bonus stuff, so I'm thinking it'll be independent of the game itself. I'm thinking it'll be like a Supernatural Barrier where you earn points by grazing and and shooting down stuff and you earn a bonus when it expires or you bomb/get hit, which would make scoring a bit of a different trek.

Of course, my initial thought could be fun too; ZUB Moon Bunny Rushes that can be triggered during normal gameplay.

Though I am interested in what that English text says at the bottom of Reisen's profile. It almost looks like "Previous Level Weak" at first glance, but it's alittle too blurry to make out.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on April 24, 2015, 02:40:13 pm
It's just whatever english title he gave to the game mode.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 24, 2015, 02:40:57 pm
Quote
First of all, everyone who read SSiB knows the moon seas are composed of real water in Touhou. Or more accurately, the seas in the "fantasy" version of the moon are, because that's how people imagined it.
I know that already.

Quote
During my Uni life, if we cited Wiki sources, we received -1 point penalty on our mark.
Not in my classes, as far as I'm concerned.  Whatever the case is, it's pretty much the first place people go to whenever they want information on something they don't know.

Isn't it funny how the most convenient site for information is constantly passed off as a site full of lies, even though there are moderators there keeping things in check?  It seems to me that nobody will miss Wikipedia at all when that site one day closes down for good.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2015, 03:00:07 pm
Re: game mode

The difficulty level "Crescent" (English word) is to the  bottom right. The central prompt is basically "Flawless Mode". It's probably an official alternate challenge mode, related to the disabled player lives.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 24, 2015, 04:13:23 pm
Speculation time!

If this so-called "Flawless Mode" actually involves disabling of lives, there's probably going to be some sort of secret that gets unlocked by completing the game with it set. What this secret will be is completely up to the man himself.

Personally, I want to to be some Phantasm-like stage where you fight Yorihime or a similarly overpowered boss.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on April 27, 2015, 03:39:56 am
I'd like to point out a few things:

Re: Lunarian + water-themed plot theory, Konohana-Sakuyahime is a water deity, according to Keine. If we consider the mallet, (sentient) rice cake, moon rabbit enemy, and connection to the moon, it's possible---as previous posters mentioned---that Chang'e is involved or relevant. If she is, then we would have a connection with water and (her presumable) immortality, i.e., the sisters Sakuyahime and Iwanagahime, goddess of immortality. Interestingly, Yatsugatake, Gensokyo's highest point and where the latter resides, would be somewhat unaffected if the land were to be flooded.

Re: Theme of time, especially the past, and Lunatic Kingdom; I'll speculate that the Lunatic Kingdom was the Lunar Capital. Eirin said in the first chapter of CiLR that "[...] after Princess Kaguya's great crime and subsequent exile to Earth, the moon changed enormously," which, to me, hints at great political upheavals. Also, the major events that happened during this era, e.g., Yukari's invasion and Kaguya's exile, became catalysts for subsequent ones, i.e., Eirin's betrayal, Mokou's immortality, IN, SSiB (+ relevant parts of Bougetsushou), and possibly one more (LoLK?). From a certain perspective, one could think of these as the Old Kingdom's "legacy."

A minor thought: if time manipulation is somehow involved, and the moon's power is to bring back the past, then Eirin's counter of enabling one to experience the future makes sense (to me, at least *sweatdrops*).

Another minor (cracky) thought: one of LoLK's spoiler for ULiL, following the moon + past + water route, is that Iwakasa's men died either by spontaneous human combustion, or by a fiery being from which Mokou got her power.... On further thought, it could have been both... hmm...



Before, my intuition kept on telling me that ZUN would soon return to his moon saga, but I always thought that it was just my wishful thinking. It appears that I need to give my guts (heh) more credit than I thought. :V I also find it fascinating that, prior to this, there have been significant moon-related occurrences, e.g., TARC Miscellaneous Questions thread's moon discussions and Hifuu Club's episode. In conclusion, I'm very happy with this announcement. (More brain food for me!)

(I wanted to post this days ago, but stuff happened. Oh well, better late than never.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SirSlarty on April 27, 2015, 04:18:37 am
What color will Sanae's eyes be this time?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: snowflake247 on April 27, 2015, 12:44:58 pm
I noticed that the Japanese title ends in the character 伝, the same as Highly Responsive to Prayers's Japanese title did. How fitting for the 20th anniversary of Touhou.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on April 27, 2015, 11:46:13 pm
So, ZUN said that the demo will be pretty much a last-minute release with (probably) home-burned disks and that speculation from screenshots is basically pointless. Now, did he said if the demo will be a  (more or less) accurate approximation of the final game (gameplay-wise)?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on April 29, 2015, 08:07:17 am
I really hope that Zun isn't going to rush this game in an attempt to try and get it finished before the end of 2015 because of "20th year anniversary" pressure being put on him. To many games these days are being released in an unfinished state due to impossibly strict deadlines placed on them by various influences.

Great example: Sonic the hedgehog 2006. That game was suppose to be an anniversary release for the franchise but due to a huge rush to get it released before the end of the year... well, it became one of the worst Sonic games of all.

Him rushing to get this demo out isn't a good sign, especially if this game is going to have an overhauled system implemented.

Take it easy Zun-Sempai! Release the game in 2016 if it's not ready. We are prepared to wait for greatness (I am, anyway)!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on April 29, 2015, 11:23:41 am
I think it's pretty much guaranteed that he's releasing it at Summer Comiket. Like, that's not even in question. He wouldn't be releasing the demo now if that wasn't his plan. He certainly isn't going to take an entire extra year on it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 29, 2015, 01:07:59 pm
I think it's pretty much guaranteed that he's releasing it at Summer Comiket. Like, that's not even in question. He wouldn't be releasing the demo now if that wasn't his plan. He certainly isn't going to take an entire extra year on it.

To be honest I agree with this statement. I mean, he's done this before with the main games and I don't see why he would step away from the usual schedule that he sets himself. ;w;"
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 29, 2015, 01:54:16 pm
Him rushing to get this demo out isn't a good sign, especially if this game is going to have an overhauled system implemented.
Doesn't matter if the demo is rushed, because it won't be exactly the same as the final version anyway.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 29, 2015, 02:20:18 pm
Doesn't matter if the demo is rushed, because it won't be exactly the same as the final version anyway.

Releasing a rushed game, whether demo or full, can leave a bad impression of the creator (especially a famous one). It feels like the developer is trying to conform to his own schedule and to make the game solely for a "memorable moment" and clump everything together for only basic structures rather than putting effort in making a full one.

Sometimes, it's best to break the "memorable moment" schedule now for even greater moment later.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on April 29, 2015, 02:24:56 pm
Historically it seems ZUN really likes intense work sessions, and is able to produce quality in a reasonably short time. Some people just need strict deadlines I guess, doubly so in Japanese overworking culture.

Disclaimer: this isn't healthy in the long run, and I don't personally condone "crunch times". Hoping ZUN doesn't burn himself out and is having fun.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on April 29, 2015, 03:05:29 pm
Releasing a rushed game, whether demo or full, can leave a bad impression of the creator (especially a famous one).
And while it's true that demos determine the impression of the final product, demo players are also expected to be smart and "think bigger." Just because you come across a game breaking glitch in the demo doesn't mean it will still be in the final version.  When playing a demo, the gameplay itself determining whether or not you will like the final product is one thing, but it's not right to instantly dislike a game and believe that the final product will be bad just because you run across some glitches in the demo.  One has to realize that the demo isn't complete and is likely to have oddities that will more than likely be fixed in the final version.

So if you play the demo and don't think you will like the final product because the gameplay doesn't suit your taste?  That's fine.  But you come across glitches and instantly say you will not like the final product because of those alone?  That's not the best reason for disliking a game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 01, 2015, 01:38:27 am
What the Touhou 9 playable character list looks like at a fresh install:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/kaei_zpslg7x9dyb.png)

The PoFV characters are separated into 4 categories, which is obvious when you are actually beating the game to unlock them: 5 protagonist types, 4(+2) minor/weak characters, 3 debuting strong characters, and 2 debuting endbosses.

Also note which characters' (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody/Story/Komachi%27s_Scenario) temperaments Komachi had read before she met Tenshi. I'd venture to say, she visited these characters because she considered them her peers (which does not guarantee Komachi will be playable again any soon).

I wonder whether the next batch of playable characters will include Satori, Captain Murasa or Seiga - Stage 4 bosses being as important as Stage 5 was a thing during the SA-TD period.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on May 01, 2015, 01:59:29 am
You're saying it like LoLK was supposed to be some hidden Phantasmagoria. Not that I wouldn't love it to death.
As for demo rush concerns - I *do* have my fair share of those as well, since even if it's a demo, ZUN has to make the core system for us to check out now anyway. Should he have a schedule slip, I fear he could end up not implementing everything he intended to and afterwards consider it too awkward to make changes between demo and full version that are so huge that the full version is a completely different game altogether... even if those would be welcome.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 01, 2015, 05:43:28 am
Komachi being playable would be strange and great. She is a stage 5 equivalent, more or less.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on May 01, 2015, 02:54:52 pm
Assuming that nobody said this yet, the mid-boss's spell card in one of the screenshots has the word "eagle" in it, so we can assume that she is a/n eagle/bird demon?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 01, 2015, 03:04:58 pm
Her sprite strongly suggests she's a moon rabbit.

The most convincing theory abt the "eagle shooting" spell card so far is that it's a reference to Eagle, Apollo 11's lunar module.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on May 01, 2015, 03:13:02 pm
I see now... The American Flag on the moon became a Youkai and lead a rabbit revolution on the moon, which caused (Who received a message from them) Reisen to seek allies within Gensokyo. There we go, that's the plot >..>
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 01, 2015, 04:01:28 pm
And Reimu found this out and promptly says "Do not want" and that is the cause of the whole incident.  :3
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 02, 2015, 11:59:30 am
Komachi being playable would be strange and great. She is a stage 5 equivalent, more or less.
Talking about Komachi, at the time of PoFV she said to Marisa that she was 10 years too young to think about her own death. I know it probably didn't have much meaning, but now it's exactly 10 years from that thing...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 02, 2015, 12:08:06 pm
Talking about Komachi, at the time of PoFV she said to Marisa that she was 10 years too young to think about her own death. I know it probably didn't have much meaning, but now it's exactly 10 years from that thing...
"Ten years too early" is a common Japanese phrase for chiding someone for their immaturity and lack of experience. Its variations have appeared more than once in Touhou. For an anime-style story it's typically used like this: "you are ten years too early to think of defeating me!" i.e. "go and train for another ten years before thinking of defeating me!"

The joke here is that Komachi used the phrase in a way that makes no logical sense, and Marisa immediately called her out. You shouldn't read too much into it.

Speaking of that, because the Touhou game scenarios are written as manzai comedy, I've been thinking that from a writing standpoint, the most important quality a main game playable character can have is NOT intelligence, or diligence, or any of the things you expect from a hero, but rather to play the part of the straight man well. They don't need to figure out the truth; rather, they should react to the ridiculous things the newly introduced bosses said in a funny way, and incite the bosses to say even funnier things.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 02, 2015, 12:57:52 pm
Reimu and Marisa also both have the remarkable talent to play both the straight man or the boke equally well, depending on the context. This is their virtue as main characters.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on May 02, 2015, 09:46:45 pm
(https://40.media.tumblr.com/08500c0a3f2b53001f60cda5e1a7bb02/tumblr_nnp04gZrvL1qhqn36o1_540.png)

I spy a certain game in the background from one of ZUN's recent tweets. (Unfortunately, the caption talks about the beer though. ;w;" )

https://twitter.com/korindo/status/594010609143848960 (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/594010609143848960) Source
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: gilde on May 02, 2015, 10:07:31 pm
Oh, that's interesting. There's some text on the right-hand frame that wasn't in previous screenshots. Too blurry to read, but it looks sort of similar to the "Chapter Finish" text, albeit with more headings. (Or maybe it's just for debug purposes? Who knows.) never mind :V thank u Not Bigode

The English text on the pause menu reads "to Waypoint" if you zoom really far in. Innnnteresting.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 02, 2015, 10:53:13 pm
That's just debug info.

http://i.imgur.com/cbt8aSe.jpg
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 03, 2015, 10:09:35 am
Quote
ZUN: (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/594792575694872576) A large batch of CD-Rs with labels already printed have been delivered to us. So, we will burn them all... Doki doki

Someone: Sorry for replying to your tweet all of a sudden. This time, is there any saving Toramaru Shou in Touhou 13.5?

ZUN: I am not worthy of saving her; Toramaru Shou should be the one saving others - in the Buddhist sense.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: monhan on May 05, 2015, 06:03:59 am
13.5 ----> 14.5

A slight mistake there, cuc. Was wondering about it for a while there.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 06, 2015, 01:18:58 am
"Ten years too early" is a common Japanese phrase for chiding someone for their immaturity and lack of experience. Its variations have appeared more than once in Touhou. For an anime-style story it's typically used like this: "you are ten years too early to think of defeating me!" i.e. "go and train for another ten years before thinking of defeating me!"

The joke here is that Komachi used the phrase in a way that makes no logical sense, and Marisa immediately called her out. You shouldn't read too much into it.

Speaking of that, because the Touhou game scenarios are written as manzai comedy, I've been thinking that from a writing standpoint, the most important quality a main game playable character can have is NOT intelligence, or diligence, or any of the things you expect from a hero, but rather to play the part of the straight man well. They don't need to figure out the truth; rather, they should react to the ridiculous things the newly introduced bosses said in a funny way, and incite the bosses to say even funnier things.
Yeah, i thought it would mean something like this. I'm always trying to see things where there are none :V

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Spotty Len on May 08, 2015, 12:53:34 pm
We have a visual now. (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/23082141/)

(http://i.imgur.com/fYrnMCb.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on May 08, 2015, 01:00:17 pm
Wh... is that a blood spatter on her hammer? o.o;; Like, that's the -last- thing I expect to see on a touhou cover XD
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: snowflake247 on May 08, 2015, 01:30:03 pm
Hello rabbit Seiga.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 08, 2015, 01:35:11 pm
Well, rabbit with a bloodstained hammer. "Interesting" is an understatement.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 08, 2015, 01:42:46 pm
Quote
May 10 is for Reitaisai

Ah, at last, the time has come.
Aside from things like a little spell-checking, the Touhou Kanjuden trial version is (to a large degree) completed.

[Image]
On that day, I will bring a CD like this to Reitaisai.
Each copy is 300 yen. Please take care.

This is the first time ever I caught myself doing game development so close to the deadline. To tell the truth, my hands are still shaking. Playing Lunatic too many times must have drained my energy... I meant to put up some game screenshots, but don't have the time to do it, so you will have to wait and see the game yourself at release.

Now that I got myself into attending Reitaisai in such a state, I just might collapse on the spot. Please take care of me if this happens. (In any case, there's a high chance I'll faint during Reitaisai.)

Well then, afterwards its (mass-scale) CD burning! We are on fire!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 08, 2015, 01:44:49 pm
Look at her bunny ears... look at her eyes. They are the same as Reisen's, which means that she is another moon rabbit, possibly with the power of the moon that drives people mad.

More material here that links the lunar capital as being a part of this storyline of this game.

Quote
Well, rabbit with a bloodstained hammer. "Interesting" is an understatement.

I like it... it's edgy! But lets not jump to conclusions just yet. It may or may not be blood.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 08, 2015, 01:54:59 pm
Seems the Watatsukis made her troops go hardcore on their training after the last Genso-Lunar war

that or this one is a klutz who pounded red bean paste instead of mochi :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: UTW on May 08, 2015, 02:12:23 pm
Seems like the fandom might have a new yandere on its hands.

More material here that links the lunar capital as being a part of this storyline of this game.


I want the Watatsukis in this game so bad. I feel like the Mima nuts now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: 7TC7 on May 08, 2015, 02:13:43 pm
Just look at that star and moon pattern on her blue dress. She might have reincarnated into a rabbit, but Mima's finally back.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suwako Moriya on May 08, 2015, 02:14:24 pm
It's like none of you have read Bunnicula.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 08, 2015, 02:21:18 pm
Quote
I want the Watatsukis in this game so bad.

Be careful what you wish for.

In SSiB the Watatsukis completely demolished our earth dwelling heros/invaders. Even Yukari knew well the full potential of their power, avoiding a frontal confrontation at all costs.

If they actually are in this game, expect a difficulty that goes beyond Lunatic... Beyond PHANTASM!

Zun will go full CAVE on our asses  :3

Actually, I just remembered something. In SSiB, the Watatsukis said that killing is avoided and forbidden on the moon. Yet this new character is totally rockin' that blood splatter.

Rogue agent anyone?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 08, 2015, 02:40:55 pm
Actually, I just remembered something. In SSiB, the Watatsukis said that killing is avoided and forbidden on the moon. Yet this new character is totally rockin' that blood splatter.

Rogue agent anyone?

Killing is forbidden on the moon. We're not on the moon. Toyohime was perfectly willing to kill on Earth with that super-fan of years. The idea is less that killing is morally wrong and more that the moon is a sacred place that should not be defiled by the kegare of death.

That said, I doubt we're dealing with the moon government here, because why the heck would they care about what's going on in Gensokyo? Maybe some moon rabbit rebellion or something.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 08, 2015, 02:58:19 pm
Oh, so we're quick to accuse the moon rabbit of murder, eh? That stuff on the hammer could be anything. It could be red paint. It could be strawberry jam. I, personally, am reserving judgement for when the DNA analysis comes back. JUSTICE!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 08, 2015, 03:22:26 pm
Let's consider for a second all of the evidence thus far, and realize that this character is obviously going to be a boss in this game. Maybe even the final or EX boss.

Either way, we will know about it all soon enough. For now, we wait.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 08, 2015, 03:27:15 pm
Lunar Hammer Massacre confirmed for Touhou 15.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 08, 2015, 03:29:54 pm
Let's consider for a second all of the evidence thus far, and realize that this character is obviously going to be a boss in this game. Maybe even the final or EX boss.

Either way, we will know about it all soon enough. For now, we wait.

ZUN wouldn't put the final/EX boss on the cover of the demo CD. She's more likely the stage 2 or stage 3 boss. She also resembles the girl in the announcement images.

(Honestly, I thought she was Kogasa for a second and I got reall excited T_T).

I have no idea, I'd like to think that this girl is an actual Lunatic (read: insane) rabbit with blood on her mallet, but it couod just be red bean paste. If she is a moon rabbit, it'll be interesting to see how she reacts to Reisen (the moon-war traitor).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Star King on May 08, 2015, 03:33:39 pm
I like it... it's edgy! But lets not jump to conclusions just yet. It may or may not be blood.

Let's not kid ourselves. It's blood.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 08, 2015, 03:56:31 pm
ZUN wouldn't put the final/EX boss on the cover of the demo CD. She's more likely the stage 2 or stage 3 boss. She also resembles the girl in the announcement images.

Yeah, this is almost certainly just a minor character. At best, she could hope for something like Nazrin's role. Which is at least connected to the main plot.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tsalop on May 08, 2015, 03:59:36 pm
We have a visual now. (http://kourindou.exblog.jp/23082141/)

(http://i.imgur.com/fYrnMCb.jpg)

This is clearly uncanny Reisen from stage 3B...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ExPorygon on May 08, 2015, 04:20:12 pm
I'm not convinced at all that that's blood. It's not like Touhou games have had anything close to resembling graphic content in the past, especially considering the lighthearted tone of EVERY game.

But you know the fandom is going to run away with it anyway. Expect art of the new character as a yandere any moment now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 08, 2015, 04:27:46 pm
I'm not convinced at all that that's blood. It's not like Touhou games have had anything close to resembling graphic content in the past, especially considering the lighthearted tone of EVERY game.

But you know the fandom is going to run away with it anyway. Expect art of the new character as a yandere any moment now.

Remilia was introduced as "the Scarlet Devil", so named because she's a messy eater with bloodstained clothes. Also, it's sort of implied that she's shooting blood at you as her danmaku (confirmed in Grimoire of Marisa). Also, Sakuya theme is "The Maid and Blood-splattered pocketwatch", she's got a serial killer thing in her spellcards, and its implied that she kills people to feed to her vampire masters. And there's no need to mention everyone talking about eating people all the time.

EoSD was a pretty dark game. Now, it was all treated as a joke and some of it retconned in later games, but I don't see any reason for this game not to be equally dark.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on May 08, 2015, 04:28:29 pm
Well, Reimu did recently split a person's head in two with her gohei in Forbidden Scrollery (on-panel, no less), so maybe ZUN finally wants to introduce some gore into the franchise.
For instance, it's not like we ever saw a human being actually eaten by a youkai, despite it being an extremely recurring motif in the series. The only thing that comes to mind are those humans in HM opening being shown dead, shot with arrows and possbily cleaved in half and whatever the hell happened to those lone faces (decapitated/buried alive?).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 08, 2015, 04:30:50 pm
Well, Reimu did recently split a person's head in two with her gohei in Forbidden Scrollery (on-panel, no less), so maybe ZUN finally wants to introduce some gore into the franchise.

It was a youkai, and he was already dead (technically), so it's more like exorcising a ghost.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ExPorygon on May 08, 2015, 04:33:59 pm
Remilia was introduced as "the Scarlet Devil", so named because she's a messy eater with bloodstained clothes. Also, it's sort of implied that she's shooting blood at you as her danmaku (confirmed in Grimoire of Marisa). Also, Sakuya theme is "The Maid and Blood-splattered pocketwatch", she's got a serial killer thing in her spellcards, and its implied that she kills people to feed to her vampire masters. And there's no need to mention everyone talking about eating people all the time.

EoSD was a pretty dark game. Now, it was all treated as a joke and some of it retconned in later games, but I don't see any reason fr this game not to be equally dark.
Fair point about EoSD, but at the same time it's really hard to talk about vampires without referencing blood. And there was no visual blood shown in the game either. The serial killer thing with Sakuya MIGHT just be clever references, people often read too deep into a lot of things. The references ARE there, but nothing visual. It's a rather big step to visually depict this kind of stuff IMO.

Not saying that it's not possible at all that it's blood, but I'm just skeptical. It would probably also be just like ZUN to make it look like blood only to show later that it isn't.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 08, 2015, 04:41:37 pm
The references ARE there, but nothing visual. It's a rather big step to visually depict this kind of stuff IMO.

Not saying that it's not possible at all that it's blood, but I'm just skeptical. It would probably also be just like ZUN to make it look like blood only to show later that it isn't.

As I said, Remilia's danmaku is blood. She's shooting blood at you, and blood is flying all over the screen. It's just a limitation of the graphics that they look like ordinary red bullets.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 08, 2015, 04:48:23 pm
There is visible bleeding in EoSD. In Sakuya's defeat portrait, she has the player character's blood on her knives. Both Sakuya and Flandre's defeat portraits have red crosshatches on their skins, which in this case should be a visual shorthand symbolizing skin scratches.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 08, 2015, 04:53:54 pm
Maybe that moon rabbit is actually a killer, and was banished on the Earth for this? Those rabbits are almost used as slaves after all, and if ZUN is connecting DDC and LoLK like he did from MoF to TD, maybe the Miracle Mallet's influence made it to the moon, making rabbits go crazy and try a rebellion.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ExPorygon on May 08, 2015, 05:03:57 pm
As I said, Remilia's danmaku is blood. She's shooting blood at you, and blood is flying all over the screen. It's just a limitation of the graphics that they look like ordinary red bullets.
Sorry, I must have glanced past that part of your post. I actually did not know that little trivia about her danmaku. It probably was graphical limitations, but Remilia's reappearance in ISC didn't have her using any visually different bullets there either, though I just realized that's probably due to the fact that it'd be a pain to make unique bullets for a character with only a few attacks. I still think there is a gap between SHOWING that it's blood and TELLING that it's blood.

There is visible bleeding in EoSD. In Sakuya's defeat portrait, she has the player character's blood on her knives. Both Sakuya and Flandre's defeat portraits have red crosshatches on their skins, which in this case should be a visual shorthand symbolizing skin scratches.
This I was not aware of at all. There are so many little nuances I just don't notice. The blood on the knife actually makes me think it's far more likely for it to be blood on the new character after all.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 08, 2015, 05:04:44 pm
Let's not kid ourselves. It's blood.
Or paint. Or mochi. Very colorful mochi. Besides, according to Reimu in WaHH, youkai don't leave body parts when they die but they simply vanish, so it'd be weird to have blood from some otherworldly being (assuming no humans would have been conveniently pounded in the way meeting the heroines)

At any rate, besides Marisa's injury in WaHH and Kokoro's splatter-ish LW, or some scratches in EoSD, there's hardly any VERY graphic depiction of blood, and the other darker parts of the setting are merely allusions. Maybe the blood-like pattern has been put there by the rabbit for fun, which follow more the prank-ish behavior of the rabbits and the games's light hearted tone.

Canon aside, if this character manages to kick open the dams that'll let loose torrents of rabbits pairings, I'll be very satisfied  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sedrife on May 08, 2015, 07:10:57 pm
Hello rabbit Seiga.
Funny that you say that, because this can be stretched to actually make some logical flow to back the claim that Seiga is really no different from the moon rabbit. 
Seiga mentioned that she was trained in making the elixir of immortality (錬丹).  The Chinese legend which basically started "rabbit lives on the moon" meme introduces Chang'e who made the rabbits make the same elixir of immortality for her to live forever on the moon.  So what moon rabbits are pounding are actually the elixir of immortality.  Pounding mochi is just the earthly variant that don't bother with the idea of wanting to live forever by common folks.  I see no reason why Seiga is wearing bunny ears to be capable of making elixir of immortality.

Also, 丹 from 錬丹 contains the meaning of red, which hints that the elixir of immortality was "red pills".  The reason for redness is because the main ingredient for practicing the art of making elixir of immortality was mercury, commonly available back then as Cinnabar (HgS).  So the hammer is red because the rabbit was pounding cinnabar, or she was really making a bloody mess (they are at war after all)...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phantasmal on May 08, 2015, 07:18:37 pm
Oh no! Blood! What ever will we do?!

Guys, honestly, you shouldn't care this much about a simple little blood splatter in some instances. I just don't want to see hardcore gore anywhere.
But back on the subject of LoLK, I really want to know how Reisen will play as a character. Anyone have any information? Her bomb might be something like MoF's bomb, I feel. Powerful and handy,  but hard to execute right next to the boss.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 08, 2015, 07:42:36 pm
I'm really liking this! I like the new character's design and we will probably get loads of fanart about her with the Eientei's crew.  :3

Anyway, I hope we will get confirmation if the stains on her hammer is really blood or just coloring or something else when the demo get released. I remember we had no confirmation if Byakuren's hair was really gradient or if that was just the light from her scroll or whatever else until much later. Hopefully there won't be a similar case here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ExPorygon on May 08, 2015, 08:09:45 pm
Or paint. Or mochi. Very colorful mochi. Besides, according to Reimu in WaHH, youkai don't leave body parts when they die but they simply vanish, so it'd be weird to have blood from some otherworldly being (assuming no humans would have been conveniently pounded in the way meeting the heroines)

At any rate, besides Marisa's injury in WaHH and Kokoro's splatter-ish LW, or some scratches in EoSD, there's hardly any VERY graphic depiction of blood, and the other darker parts of the setting are merely allusions. Maybe the blood-like pattern has been put there by the rabbit for fun, which follow more the prank-ish behavior of the rabbits and the games's light hearted tone.

Canon aside, if this character manages to kick open the dams that'll let loose torrents of rabbits pairings, I'll be very satisfied  :V

This is pretty much what I was trying to say, there's very little precedent to this for the most part.
Oh no! Blood! What ever will we do?!

Guys, honestly, you shouldn't care this much about a simple little blood splatter in some instances. I just don't want to see hardcore gore anywhere.
I really don't care, I just said that I doubt that it's actually blood. That and I like these kinds of discussions.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mеа on May 08, 2015, 09:20:46 pm
I thought moon bunnies all had lilac hair
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 09, 2015, 01:48:06 am
Also, 丹 from 錬丹 contains the meaning of red, which hints that the elixir of immortality was "red pills".  The reason for redness is because the main ingredient for practicing the art of making elixir of immortality was mercury, commonly available back then as Cinnabar (HgS).  So the hammer is red because the rabbit was pounding cinnabar, or she was really making a bloody mess (they are at war after all)...
Cinnabar (硃砂), that's a good point. ZUN loves throwing curveballs.

Itsuari suggested (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/596682409258524672) that the red stain can come from pounding benimochi, a process in making red dye from safflower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safflower) (article (http://www.pref.yamagata.jp/ou/shokokanko/110010/kogeihin/sp04-1.html) about the process).

For that matter, safflower is also used to make rouge in traditional Sinosphere culture.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on May 09, 2015, 01:58:31 am
 https://twitter.com/korindo/status/596853534487805952

I hope you guys can grab your copy, fresh from the brewery of the head priest.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 09, 2015, 02:02:43 am
Quote
Well then—, burn like there's no tomorrow—
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on May 09, 2015, 02:12:38 am

Bun like there's no tomorrow
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 09, 2015, 02:16:25 am
(http://i.imgur.com/5RpZkHM.jpg)

Seriously, I had no idea CD-burning farms are a thing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on May 09, 2015, 03:54:33 am
so it'd be weird to have blood from some otherworldly being
Doesn't mean they're not capable of bleeding, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 09, 2015, 04:02:54 am
I think it'd be weirder if they didn't bleed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on May 09, 2015, 04:45:30 am
https://twitter.com/korindo/status/596853534487805952

I hope you guys can grab your copy, fresh from the brewery of the head priest.

ZUN looks really happy in the picture for a guy who's probably going to be burning a hell of a ton of CDs over the next day or so in preparation. :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 09, 2015, 05:15:54 am
That's A LOT of CDBurners ZUN has there. Talk about a tight schedule!  :o
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 09, 2015, 09:58:16 am
Day 0 fanart should come as no surprise.

(http://i.imgur.com/F1NqQmQ.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 09, 2015, 01:58:29 pm
At 5:14 PM JST:
ZUN posted a photo. (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/596951384102084608)
Quote
The disc-burning went off without a hitch. Please take care tomorrow. I've already begun drinking now.

Quote
ZUN: (https://twitter.com/korindo/status/597030895317426176) It's been a long while since I last do something so doujin-ish, using my own hands. Gives me a strong sense of accomplishment. So strong that I'd be content even if I don't go to Reitaisai tomorrow.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: teefa85 on May 09, 2015, 02:23:40 pm
Oh ZUN...never change you crazy genius you!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Wolfolotl on May 09, 2015, 07:35:08 pm
I kind of want to nickname this new rabbit Ice Cream
(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120618173031/logopedia/images/b/bc/Blue_bunny_logo3.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on May 09, 2015, 09:58:27 pm
There's also that one fanartist, Ao Usagi ...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 10, 2015, 01:24:15 am
It begins (soon)! Only one copy each person at the start.
https://twitter.com/korindo/status/597209924569997312
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mino ☆ on May 10, 2015, 01:58:51 am
And within hours, we'll have nico streams, screenshots, and troll tweets (that aren't actually about the games)

Get HYPE
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phantasmal on May 10, 2015, 02:12:00 am
@Mino
OMG. Your profile pic. IT'S YONA!!!
I thought I was the only one who watched that!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on May 10, 2015, 03:29:16 am
Um... any news about the demo? Does anybody even care?  :derp:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Giratina93 on May 10, 2015, 03:31:28 am
Um... any news about the demo? Does anybody even care?  :derp:

I think everyone's off staring at the ULiL footage and stream. The demo, lost against the finalized fighting game product
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 10, 2015, 03:32:27 am
Um... any news about the demo? Does anybody even care?  :derp:

I think someone on the other thread mentioned that pictures were on 4chan, but I can't seem to find em'.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 03:33:50 am
I found some screenies on Reddit (put up by james7132): http://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/35g9px/discussion_reitaisai_12_discussion_thread/

Second boss is another moon bunny!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 10, 2015, 03:35:11 am
ringo's last name is definitely Girlington
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 10, 2015, 03:39:33 am
I found some screenies on Reddit (put up by james7132): http://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/35g9px/discussion_reitaisai_12_discussion_thread/

Second boss is another moon bunny!

So we have two moon rabbits, Seiran and Ringo Starr. Where's the 3rd boss?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: teefa85 on May 10, 2015, 03:42:38 am
I can think of a million jokes that will come in fanart considering Ringo brought snacks to the fight!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 03:44:19 am
Should be added once it has been posted online. (The post is continually updated with new info.)

Update: On-the-spot translation of the screenshots have started.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 10, 2015, 03:45:56 am
Should be added once it has been posted online, I guess. (The post seems to be continually updated with new info.)

I think I found it: http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1431229412965.jpg
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 10, 2015, 03:48:27 am
Wow, just judging by the screen shots he gave us I was thinking ZUNart was getting worse, but that Sanae is just gorgeous. And Reimu and Marisa aren't half bad either...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 03:49:54 am
I think I found it: http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1431229412965.jpg

First thought: Santa

Update: Stage title is "Dreamful Path"... Oh, it's a nightcap!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Giratina93 on May 10, 2015, 03:51:24 am
Well, based on what we know of Flawless Mode... I can tell Lunatic runs are going to get very, very, VERY annoying to do. I'm wondering if ZUN will make this TD levels of easy to compensate for it, or be a troll and keep things DDC/SA levels of hard ontop of FM.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 10, 2015, 03:52:17 am
new marisa is a basically a bobblehead lol. other than her his poses are becoming much more dynamic though
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 10, 2015, 04:11:34 am
Yay, now we got a better picture~ http://puu.sh/hHO55/b4293f2ebe.jpg
I'm confused as to what she's supposed to be, some people are saying she's a baku but she doesn't look like it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Achariyth on May 10, 2015, 04:29:12 am
I'm wondering if the third boss, with her musical name and prevalence of spheres in her design, might be a reference to the Music/Harmony of the Spheres.  But since that's Western, is there a similar Eastern concept?

EDIT: Or, after sounding out her name, I might have picked up on the wrong name pun..  Sweet Dreams are made of these...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 04:48:40 am
Yay, now we got a better picture~ http://puu.sh/hHO55/b4293f2ebe.jpg
I'm confused as to what she's supposed to be, some people are saying she's a baku but she doesn't look like it.

She may be one. For instance, Keine and Nitori don't look like a hakutaku and kappa, respectively. She does have a connection to dreams (and perhaps devouring them, judging from the sweets?). Also, Doremy has a tail FWIW.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Haganeproductio on May 10, 2015, 04:54:15 am
Yay, now we got a better picture~ http://puu.sh/hHO55/b4293f2ebe.jpg
Wait, she has a tail! And those are literally balls on her dress rather than just spots. Wtf ZUN. Where do you get these awesome ideas? Plus this game's playable characters have nice art.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mеа on May 10, 2015, 05:14:04 am
Here (http://pastebin.com/HUZEAp9d) is all the characters' official profiles. It's in Japanese unfortunately, but there's some interesting stuff in there.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on May 10, 2015, 06:02:13 am
SPOILERS: uhh what are the modes like point device and stuff?

EDIT: figured those out.

Anyway so far game is super interesting. As Zun said the gameplay it self feels simple but the structure feels quite different from the traditional games. Feels incredibly easy though right now on easy modo. I'm going to for the luna tomorrow XD.

I forgot to choose reisen though. I'll give some more thoughts later on her shotype.

Ran into a bullet by accident on SPOIIIIIIIIILEERS: flawless easy and the run ended XD

SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIIILERS: okay flawless has a checkpoint system it seems interesting.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 06:19:29 am
so what's pointdevice? is it for playing with touchscreens?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Metaflare on May 10, 2015, 06:21:44 am
It's just a strange name for the new mode, where instead of losing a life when you get hit, you get sent back to the previous checkpoint
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on May 10, 2015, 06:24:44 am
so thoughts from anyone so far. Based on my play with reimu this is a super interesting game.

Many interesting new structures added.

Some of these patterns I feel are also quite interesting but the spellcards feel a bit underwhelming even on easy if that makes sense.

Time to play with reisen.

okay so in legacy unlimited lives seem to be a thing.

Okay so I failed horribly on stage 3 boss.

Anyway stage 3 boss is freaking awesome on easy mode. Patterns that actually force you to move around. Quite nice ZUN. Quite nice I must say.

Lots of weird crap though like reisens bomb doing nothing at points and unlimited lives.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tsalop on May 10, 2015, 06:42:20 am
Okay... I just played the demo as Reisen in Easy-mode (just uploading video) and here is my toughs:
- Game is harder than any other Touhou-game I have played so far.
- Reisens bomb that gives you triple-layered shield was quite handy
- I have bit mixed feelings about the new bonus-system: Basically we have enemy waves (chapters) and after wave you get results that either give you items or not. Personally DDC:s bonus-system was better.
- Other thing that I found confusing was the two game-modes: Point Device Mode (unlimited continues) and Legacy Mode (normal shmup). PDM seems to be the default so when I ran the game I found it strange that my lives seemed to be nullified.

Well, otherwise I am looking forward the fullversion and hopefully ZUN will adjust the difficulty a bit.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: RaiTo on May 10, 2015, 06:48:26 am
MY GOSH this game is hard. And in the pointdevice mode, you loose 0.1 power everytime you return to a waypoint, to remind you how many times you died. ITS IMPOSSIBLE. IMPOSSIBRU.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on May 10, 2015, 06:48:41 am
Okay... I just played the demo as Reisen in Easy-mode (just uploading video) and here is my toughs:
- Game is harder than any other Touhou-game I have played so far.
- Reisens bomb that gives you triple-layered shield was quite handy
- I have bit mixed feelings about the new bonus-system: Basically we have enemy waves (chapters) and after wave you get results that either give you items or not. Personally DDC:s bonus-system was better.
- Other thing that I found confusing was the two game-modes: Point Device Mode (unlimited continues) and Legacy Mode (normal shmup). PDM seems to be the default so when I ran the game I found it strange that my lives seemed to be nullified.

Well, otherwise I am looking forward the fullversion and hopefully ZUN will adjust the difficulty a bit.

hell no man this game's difficulty is awesome. You actually have to move around instead of sticking at the bottom of the screen,


Also that bonus system seems ehh to me. Kind of reminds of SA though.

Going to be sticking with legacy for now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2015, 06:51:49 am
Reisen's bomb is a double edged sword it seems.  gives you three layered shield yeah, but it also makes your hitbox much bigger.  Clipdeaths become even more frustrating!!

Also her bomb has no kind of indicator whatsoever of when the shield ends so even more clipdeaths happen.

This game feels SO much harder than even UFO's demo I daresay.  Wonder if there's any mechanic I've yet to discover to make it feel easier.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 10, 2015, 06:52:57 am
It seems that this game focus on a heavy amount of bullets. There are so many that I hurt my eyes after playing it even on normal.

-Pointdevice Mode might to be good for practice 1cc.
-Reisen's bomb is good for survival.
-Bomb is not restored when you return to waypoint so you must use your bomb sparingly.

Time to play another mode to see if there is any differences.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on May 10, 2015, 06:55:18 am
urggh might try another reisen run again. Half the times her bomb was useless.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 10, 2015, 06:56:17 am
Is there a gameplay video up yet?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 07:04:54 am
Reisen's shot type is super interesting. Her bomb is not.

The scoring system looks really neat. Lots of focus on grazing. When you're grazing, items fall very slowly. Moreover, when you're grazing for a certain period of time (along with other constraints I haven't figured out) you get bonus green orbs that add a ton to the graze counter. Also, graze resets (and is stored) per chapter.


As for music, ZUN steered hard into making spacey, alien-sounding themes, it seems.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 10, 2015, 07:05:34 am
This game does a MoF stage 4 style difficulty jump in stage 3. :V Feels like StB or ISC with the Groundhog Day looping. The new characters are strong on the lunar theme.

Also, Touhou music still doesn't disappoint. The soundtrack's got this majestic, royal focus to it, with organic scifi undertones. Lots of catchy melodies and playfulness giving me definite PC-98 vibes. Instrumentation is stepped up one more notch from DDC and ISC, there's lots of delightful subtleties and colorful textures.

And another music thing which pleases me personally - the mixing has improved! DDC had strange jumps and sudden stops in dynamics, but this time the palette is more even, so that instruments feel like they're playing together instead of competing for attention.

The early stage themes feel like extra stage themes already. Of course that complements the high difficulty. I almost won't dare to see how bombastic this whole experience becomes in the late game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on May 10, 2015, 07:08:05 am
really reminded by EOSD and SA with this game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 07:10:49 am
ᶫᵉᵍᵃᶜʸ ᵒᶠ ᶫᵘᶰᵃᵗᶦᶜ ᵏᶦᶰᵍᵈᵒᵐ
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 07:16:56 am
Is Stage 1 Lunatic an Extra Stage?

I'm getting rekt

Also Reisen's shot is just a straight type or am I missing something
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 10, 2015, 07:18:30 am
Difficulty is a huge step up from the previous games, makes UFO look easy. PointDevice is fun for anyone but Reisen, huge hitbox makes Ringo and Doremy absolute hell. Especially Doremy.

Haven't touched legacy mode yet.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 10, 2015, 07:25:01 am
I try Reisen on Pointdevice mode. Hate...the Stage 3 Boss SO MUCH especially when I run out of bomb. It was pure hell. At least I much manage to clear it.

Her spells revolve around you to stay in the centre of the stage or you might get walled. Her nonspells try to wall you with high speed big bullets. Talk about unfair.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mеа on May 10, 2015, 07:25:08 am
Is there a gameplay video up yet?
The only one I can find atm (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26224898). You need a nico account though
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: kinoko on May 10, 2015, 07:26:16 am
http://nicoviewer.net/sm26224898
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mеа on May 10, 2015, 07:31:34 am
http://nicoviewer.net/sm26224898
Forgot about that site. Thanks!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 07:35:18 am
Videos confirm that the green orb stuff increases graze by 5. What I'm pretty sure it correct, is that the shadow around you while focusing is what puts nearby bullets into the timer. When the bullets are in the shadow for a little while, they give you graze orbs.

Basically this is a really interesting mechanic but it is obviously extremely milky.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Zil on May 10, 2015, 07:36:23 am
Everyone and their brother is streaming it on twitch, if you want gameplay.

-

Anyway, the game looks promising to me so far. Lives/bombs seem very limited. Stages look tap stream heavy, though with item collecting they may be more interesting. There seems to be much less RNG in the patterns than in previous games. I don't understand the chapter bonuses but they seem like straightforward kill things + graze. Probably will be a graze heavy game with limited lives/bombs to sacrifice. Better than a bomb spam game, I'd think. I don't see what the reasoning behind point device mode is.

e: the Reisen bomb is dubious, however.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2015, 07:45:59 am
Just 5cc'd this on lunatic.

All I'll say is that I felt like playing Len'en Absurdly Extra mode all over again!!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 07:52:11 am
Got to Stage 3's last spell on Normal. What's the extend condition? I only got one during the 2nd boss.

It's satisfying as fuck to POC a screen full of point items. Hard to pull off too because you have to be constantly grazing around the middle area. And no more bombing fests here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Jirachi on May 10, 2015, 07:54:46 am
dude

what the fuck is this game

3cc'd lunatic, am i pro yet?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 10, 2015, 08:00:10 am
Maybe my skills have just gotten very rusty but this is the hardest touhou game I've played in a while. Thank. God. I'm also in love with the themes for Doremy and Ringo, their spellcards are fun but god damn I've spent a lot of time on them on normal alone.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2015, 08:30:56 am
Let's just take a moment to remember though that TD and DDC's demos used to be harder than their final versions.  Probably Zun's way of making them entertaining instead of piss easy.

Still though, some lunatic spellcards here feel downright impossible.  If anyone finds out a way to capture Doremy's midboss spellcard I'll be very glad hearing how!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 08:31:47 am
Ugh, pointdevice isn't as easy as it sounds. Since you lose power every time you return, it's easy to get to a situation where you don't have enough damage or bombs to do anything. You only get two default bombs plus whatever the bonuses give you instead of 2 free bombs every time you respawn. I sorta gave up at the post-stage 2 midboss part where there are BOTH the streamy ghosts and the sturdy fairies that shoot pink bullets because there's no way in fuck I'm getting through that with 2.00 power.

I don't want it to get easier though.

Also I'm really not sure about bullets turning a darker tint when you approach them; makes them really hard to see. Should've made them glow instead.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on May 10, 2015, 08:35:25 am
From Reddit:

Character titles + Additional information.

    Seiran
        Pale-blue Eagle Rabbit. Moon rabbit. Ability: Power to send bullets from another dimension.

    Ringo
        Orange Eagle Rabbit. Moon rabbit. Ability: Power to become strong enough to eat dango.

    Doremy Sweet
        Ruler of dreams. Baku (I WAS RIGHT). Ability: Power to create and eat dreams.

Eagle Rabbits: Infiltration troops. Dangerous job with low wages, according to Seiran's profile.

And yes, Stage 3 is in the Dream World, where Doremy lives. It seems that this time around the disturbance has to do with Dreams.


What's with the 2nd boss's ability...?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tsalop on May 10, 2015, 08:52:35 am
My first play through of this game... (https://youtu.be/yeEv5n5_xGo)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Naut on May 10, 2015, 09:05:22 am
Still though, some lunatic spellcards here feel downright impossible.  If anyone finds out a way to capture Doremy's midboss spellcard I'll be very glad hearing how!

Jeez, one day in and we're already throwing around words like "impossible." Hug the bottom corners to cancel most of the bullets as they spawn. Move in her direction. You kinda want full power though, the card timer is tight.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Yonowaaru on May 10, 2015, 09:12:06 am
From reading the character profiles, it seems more like the main characters are using dreams to get to the Lunar Capital.
Doremi, who supposedly guards the dream world to prevent people from misusing it, tries to stop them but fails.
I failed like at least 15 times at the Indigo Dream spellcard. And that was on normal.
Gosh, this is going to take a while to clear.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 10, 2015, 09:15:01 am
From Reddit:

And yes, Stage 3 is in the Dream World, where Doremy lives. It seems that this time around the disturbance has to do with Dreams.

Whelp, there goes my plans of making a dream based touhou game  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: RaiTo on May 10, 2015, 09:16:58 am
Dream world? GENGETSU AND MUGETSU AND ELLY HYPE ACTIVATE. just joking about gengetsu. I'm pretty sure this game will be hellish-type hard (harder than SA and UFO) and if we get gengetsu...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SerB18 on May 10, 2015, 09:20:24 am
I just tried out the demo today. I was woefully unprepared for the carnage yet to come. I litterally got my ass whopped only at stage one, stage freaking one! I mean I just got EoSD from my cousin working in Japan an I was shocked how I lost all my lives and forced to use a continue. It got even worse in stage 2 when everything I hated about Hong Meiling was amplified by two an stage 3? Well I didn't last long either.
Am imI complaning? No I love it. I was really hopinh for Touhou to go back to the difficulty it had back at UFO or SA. I see a great potential in this game and I will definately look forward to ot. The demo was so heard I wasn't able to enjoy the music.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 10, 2015, 09:23:50 am

So, could someone change Reisen's species to human for Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom in the wiki? It is incorrectly translated as moon rabbit right now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 09:34:39 am
I got an extend at 30m (Lunatic) so it's probably score-based this time.

Other than the stage 2 boss, the bullets are really fucking fast in this game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2015, 09:37:54 am
Jeez, one day in and we're already throwing around words like "impossible." Hug the bottom corners to cancel most of the bullets as they spawn. Move in her direction. You kinda want full power though, the card timer is tight.

Well duh, every quirky spellcard feels impossible for fellas like yours truly who don't know how to properly dodge 'em :p 

You've any advice for her 1st and 4th spellcards too? 
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mino ☆ on May 10, 2015, 09:46:08 am
Wow. This game. Pretty damn difficult, if I must say!

DDC's Lunatic demo was sort of manageable but this one definitely doesn't mess around... I'd go as far as to say this is the hardest game in the series yet. It definitely has the toughest early game, that's for sure.

...But of course once we learn all the routes and all the tricks get figured out, it probably won't be as bad.

I am having a lot of fun routing this though. And the disable mode allows for unique practice that the other demos didn't offer.

I can't wait to see japanese superplayer routes.

This game is addicting. No seriously. It's so fun.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 09:47:11 am

So, could someone change Reisen's species to human for Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom in the wiki? It is incorrectly translated as moon rabbit right now.

Done. The previous editor seems to have assumed this was an error and swapped terms accordingly, but I think it's likely that ZUN is instead referring back to stuff from CiLR and this is a completely intentional detail.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 10, 2015, 09:50:35 am
        Pale-blue Eagle Rabbit.
        Orange Eagle Rabbit.

Go Go, Power Rabbits!

On the demo: very, very nice. Doremy is truly pattern based, and very hard to boot. And the music is great. And Sanae's focused shot just tears through levels, feels like it has way more power then it had in UFO.

Is there any translation yet?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 10, 2015, 09:55:59 am
"Doremy Sweet"... I can hear an incredibly lame pun begging to be made, here... and that's the kind of dress you'd expect to seen in a fashion show !

Music is still good (well, it's Touhou), if anything the style reminds me A LOT of the style in Trojan Green Asteroid album (especially stage 1), and  stage 3 sounds a bit like wind of agartha. In honesty, stage 1 music sounds a bit underwhelming but I am, okay with the rest;

Gameplay is the unusual kind of intersting, might take some time to get used. Reisen may be the new star, but I'll stick with Sanae for now (gosh, that Sanae ZUNart is cute)

There were expectations... all met ! Already looking forward for the full game  :3
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 10, 2015, 10:18:28 am
"Doremy Sweet"... I can hear an incredibly lame pun begging to be made, here...

Do Re Mi Sweet, you mean?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Piranha on May 10, 2015, 10:32:09 am
I definitely like the new pointddevice mode, being able to try a specific part again to find a way to beat it is loads of fun, especially if you have problems with a specific part in the stage/boss.
And the default mode is still there after all.

Character art took a big step formard IMO. Especially Marisa, but the other poses also look more varied and interesting. Not digging the design on the Stage 2 boss though...
Music's awesome, after all this time it's still getting better. Doremy's and Ringo's themes are clearly the best :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 10, 2015, 10:37:14 am
Do Re Mi Sweet, you mean?
Doremy Sweet, Sweet Doremy... Sweet Dream
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Anseriform on May 10, 2015, 10:38:44 am
There is a glitch in the PointDevice mode.
If you exit the game, start it back up in another resolution and resume from waypoint, the scaling is completely messed up. 
Works fine if you resume in the same resolution though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 10:50:10 am
Music is cool. The bleep boops are really nice compared to fucking guitar. Stage 3 nailed it with both the BG and BGM, feels really PC-98 ish. The only downsides are that the stage 1 theme sounds kinda forgettable and Seiran's is an absolute clusterfuck outside of the intro and the sex chorus.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 10, 2015, 11:28:25 am
Hmm... Flying to the moon, stages divided into chapters, bleepy music...

...wait a sec...

IS THIS ESCHATOS?!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Ozzter on May 10, 2015, 11:43:17 am
I'm really liking the demo, I hope nothing get's changed too much ( though I personally feel that Reisen's bomb should be tweaked just a little bit, I mean, 3 hits and no expiration in exchange for apparently a bigger hitbox that I didn't notice much while playing? ). Love the difficulty, and Doremy is pretty a interesting fight. So far noticing alot of circular patterns with the bosses, wonder if it'll continue like that?

Also did anyone else totally notice that Seiren is just Reisen's name with the s and r switched?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: FlareDragon on May 10, 2015, 11:46:12 am
Also did anyone else totally notice that Seiren is just Reisen's name with the s and r switched?
I thought it seems too similar (Also, it's more like "Re" and "Se" being switched around, since Japanese characters/symbols and all that)

Also, has anyone come across a certain glitch for Marisa, where the Master Spark graphic kinda just glitches and floats around the screen? (I'll get a screenshot up if I can replicate it)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 10, 2015, 11:55:52 am
Also, has anyone come across a certain glitch for Marisa, where the Master Spark graphic kinda just glitches and floats around the screen? (I'll get a screenshot up if I can replicate it)

Actually, I had a lot of random glitches, like visible hitbox on the boss or white flashes. Nothing really annoying, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 11:56:52 am
I'm getting a ton of graphic glitches with other characters as well. Spooky red flames floating in midair, entire screen flashing red, etc.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Darkness1 on May 10, 2015, 12:08:28 pm
Oh lord this is pretty difficult, seems like starting off on hard mode was a pretty bad idea.
The stage 3 boss is pretty fun (and abit confusing) and the stage 2 bosses nonspells are pretty terrifying.

Anyone got any tips for Doremy's first spellcard? I'm not sure if going down or up is better since the star danmaku was hard to read for me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 10, 2015, 12:09:18 pm
It was kinda mentioned already, but apparently Reisen is a honorary human now. Which I totally approve. Eat that, "there's no humans-only pattern among main game PCs" crowd!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2015, 12:13:14 pm
Just speaking from a technical point alone, just as in DDC, I get a less than 1% slowdown rate using the Fast input method, and graphics were fixed with D3DX9_43.dll.

And yes I am also feelin the space disco.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: FlareDragon on May 10, 2015, 12:34:34 pm
It's probably stated elsewhere already, and might be obvious, but it looks like that the life system is back to points-based (Good ol' SoEW/EoSD/MoF). So far, I've got 30mil and 70mil as the first 2 extends. I can't play through Hard or Lunatic enough to find the next few XD (damn, these gals get brutal)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mikuru on May 10, 2015, 12:40:47 pm
Music is still good (well, it's Touhou)
I don't agree with this -- I love the music in the early/mid Windows games, but I'm indifferent to most of UFO and DDC, and didn't like TD at all.

But the awesome is back! All the music in the LoLK demo is good, and Ringo's theme in particular is just beautiful.

Can't wait to hear the rest of the music in the full version  :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 12:41:58 pm
Translations were put up on LoLK's Wiki page: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom/Translation (I can't attest the accuracy.)

Judging from what's written:
- Moon rabbits invaded Gensokyo and are trying to purify the Earth.
- Eientei seem to have known this would happen and are prepared.
- Marisa had been investigating the (Occult) Ball of the Lunar Capital, when all seven disappeared. The titular Kanjuden, perhaps?


Edit: Oh yeah, we're taking a trip to the Moon too.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 10, 2015, 12:46:58 pm
All of the Lunar Rabbits have that crazy red eye that freaks me out when I try to look at their sprite in battle >.<

But the story sounds interesting and the seems really hard, with the events of ULiL, I wonder what else will happen in Gensokyo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: チソウ タイゼン on May 10, 2015, 12:51:24 pm
Oh my god, I can't believe how difficult this game is.
I had to waypoint restart a solid 10 or 11 times on normal
:qq:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 10, 2015, 12:51:43 pm
- Moon rabbits invaded Gensokyo and are trying to purify the Earth.

This makes me shudder. The moon actively wants to destroy our beloved fantasy land this time, and honestly, they have very good chances to pull that off from what we saw. Hopefully, since this is a Touhou game, chances are that Reimu and co. will be able to put up some diplomatic relationships by caving in everyone's skulls and having a tea party with lots of sake afterwards. Just as usual.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on May 10, 2015, 01:05:40 pm
Since the dream world is involved, do you know what that means?  Gengetsu and Mugetsu are returning!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 01:14:40 pm
Gengetsu and Mugetsu are returning!
[rape time intensifies]
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Arcorann on May 10, 2015, 01:40:10 pm
I should point out that the gameplay page on the wiki is mostly complete now. It still needs a little cleanup but all the important stuff's there.

[rape time intensifies]

Interesting fact: the person who coined that now says that he regrets doing it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 01:44:04 pm
What happened
It used to be popular 7 years ago
fuck I feel old
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 10, 2015, 01:59:41 pm
This makes me shudder. The moon actively wants to destroy our beloved fantasy land this time, and honestly, they have very good chances to pull that off from what we saw. Hopefully, since this is a Touhou game, chances are that Reimu and co. will be able to put up some diplomatic relationships by caving in everyone's skulls and having a tea party with lots of sake afterwards. Just as usual.

Don't worry about that. There is no chance the moon can succeed on this. Eirin and Kaguya are most likely on Reimu's side this time. Eirin has backup plans for everything.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: FLASH on May 10, 2015, 02:09:49 pm
i can't express how happy i am to see a Baku character in this game!  :)
it's one of my favourite Youkais and always one of those i wanted the most to see appear in Touhou lore someday!

plus what a fitting nice name too! i think Suspicious person you might be on to something here:
Doremi does sounds like how a Japanese would pronounce "Dream" ("Dorimuu" or something like that?  :3 ) so i'm inclined to believe it's a 100% intentionnal Pun by ZUN on "Sweet dreams" actually!

(he has done far fetched puns like these before: like in the PC-98 canon for exemple where Kana Anaberal = "Cape Canaveral" LOL. )

i know it's like whatever for everyone else  :derp: but that little detail alone is enough to make me glad this game exists, even if everything else in it ends up a disapointment (which i'm sure it won't!) .
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 10, 2015, 02:18:58 pm
Don't worry about that. There is no chance the moon can succeed on this. Eirin and Kaguya are most likely on Reimu's side this time. Eirin has backup plans for everything.

Makes sense. Thank you.

I do wonder who's behind it, though. Watatsukis seem to be unlikely, since they're cool with Eirin, but anything's possible.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: saisengen on May 10, 2015, 02:32:28 pm
Somebody has already done music rip?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 10, 2015, 02:34:19 pm
I probably won't be able to play this until the full release, but from the videos I've seen it looks muuuuch better than DDC. I think Ringo's patterns look pretty awful (as in not fun) but the stages, other bosses, and the music are all great. And really hard. Stage 3 looks like a typical extra stage -_-
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on May 10, 2015, 02:37:43 pm
It was kinda mentioned already, but apparently Reisen is a honorary human now. Which I totally approve. Eat that, "there's no humans-only pattern among main game PCs" crowd!
Mima and Yuuka in Touhou 5.

Still, it doesn't deny the fact that Reisen is still a lunar rabbit by default.  She's simply serving as a representative for humans.  Therefore, there is no need to tell people to eat their words and gloat..


Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Darkness1 on May 10, 2015, 02:41:22 pm
I like the part where Seiran blew me up on the second nonspell for trying to POC
and Ringo stole my hitbox graphic once wat
I have no idea what triggers it though since it only happened once and then never again.

If ZUN gave Sweet Ringo's nonspells she would probably top for hardest stage 3 boss ever in my opinion.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 10, 2015, 02:51:33 pm
Quote
It was kinda mentioned already, but apparently Reisen is a honorary human now. Which I totally approve. Eat that, "there's no humans-only pattern among main game PCs" crowd!

Since when and where did it say that Reisen became a human all of a sudden? She is a pretty strange looking human with those bunny ears on her head and not to mention that she did come from the moon, making her still an alien.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 10, 2015, 02:52:07 pm
LORE TIME.

As ZUN tweeted before release, Touhou 14.5 and 15 are explicitly connected. From Sumireko Usami's character text in Touhou 14.5:

Quote
...however, there was one thing that remained incomprehensible in the end.
Out of all the power stones that she set up in order to open the door to the other world,
one single stone seemed to have been switched with another.
Whose doing was this?
In the first place, the urban legends manifesting and spreading through Gensokyo were not something that she had planned.
The urban legends had taken action such that a hole would be broken in the barrier, in the end, but was that really just a coincidence...?
Perhaps someone had been attempting to break the barrier from the inside.
Had her power stones been used for someone else's purposes?
She never did figure it out.

Which segues to this, in Marisa/Reisen's story in Touhou 15's manual:

Quote
---Marisa's house, in the Forest of Magic.
The seven Occult Balls that had suddenly appeared.
Marisa had been investigating just what one of the balls had been;
the ball of the Lunar Capital, to be precise.
Marisa: "Looks like this thing was somehow the cause of that whole urban legend uproar, but..."
As she sat bewildered, the moon rabbit Reisen appeared there.

As we know, Touhou 15 is about a Lunarian invasion. Reimu/Sanae's backstory says this incident was started by a mechanical spider walking around in Gensokyo, and Touhou 14.5 expands on this by indicating how Kasen ripped a hole in the barrier between worlds, letting Sumireko pass through - and unfortunately the Lunarians as well.

People might be wondering, "what's that Point Device mode got to do with all this then"? It's not actually a "Point Device", the word is pointdevice (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pointdevice). It's the Ultramarine Orb medicine made by Eirin, as Eirin and Kaguya have indicated they were prepared for the invasion. From the game manual (but Marisa/Reisen's story also has dialogue related to this):

Quote
The lunar emissaries will not forgive even one error.
Why? Because life and death are the height of impurity.
Using the future-viewing medicine Eirin made, the "Ultramarine Orb Medicine,"
each chapter in a stage will repeat until you manage a no-death clear.
This is the main game mode this time around.

The medicine, in effect in the Pointdevice mode, allows the character to "read the future" and rewind to the point before death. Why is this necessary in Touhou 15?

As we know from the manga, the invading Lunarians don't respect spell card rules. This is the only Touhou game where your character is actually in danger of getting killed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 02:52:16 pm
Circle around Seiran when you POC the first spell

and maybe it's just me but Doremy's nonspells are harder already
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drayen on May 10, 2015, 02:56:48 pm
I know I haven't played in awhile, but it feels like every difficulty is a step above what it used to be in other games, normal feels like hard, easy feels like normal... The game is going to be brutal for new players/easy mode players.

I really hope the game has spellcard practice and lastwords and unlockables at release, why implement a flawless mode otherwise... the menu has no room for such things though :(
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 03:05:31 pm
Translations were put up on LoLK's Wiki page: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom/Translation (I can't attest the accuracy.)

Judging from what's written:
- Moon rabbits invaded Gensokyo and are trying to purify the Earth.
- Eientei seem to have known this would happen and are prepared.
- Marisa had been investigating the (Occult) Ball of the Lunar Capital, when all seven disappeared. The titular Kanjuden, perhaps?


Edit: Oh yeah, we're taking a trip to the Moon too.

Oh no, I'm spreading misinformation. :( The Occult Balls did not disappear, and Kanjuden refers to Eirin's medicine.

@The person who is not ZUN's wife: Thanks for that! I learnt a new word today.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Darkness1 on May 10, 2015, 03:12:32 pm
and maybe it's just me but Doremy's nonspells are harder already
May very well be so, they're certainly trickier. I just found Ringo's nonspells really scary on hard mode for some reason. I haven't done many runs yet though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BB on May 10, 2015, 03:56:48 pm
Jeez, where DDC encouraged free use of bombs, pointdevice mode almost disallows them completely. I feel like that aspect needs a little work... it's preferable to take a hit rather than deathbomb in a lot of instances, so you have the bomb to use later.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2015, 04:17:02 pm
Yeah, joining the chorus of "this game has a significant difficulty ramp". Stage 3 reaches UFO levels of Can't See Shit, Captain.

And the story? Holy shit yes. I mean we know how it will probably end but wow.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Wolfolotl on May 10, 2015, 04:21:22 pm
the demo wouldn't happen to be anywhere else but the CDs at the present time, would it?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on May 10, 2015, 04:30:10 pm
The game has a huge difficulty ramp because the game actually intends to give you infinite retries -during- a 1cc attempt, limited only by an extremely tiny power loss per death. This is... interesting balance :V

Legacy mode, however, will be utterly terrifying.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 10, 2015, 04:35:48 pm
limited only by an extremely tiny power loss per death.
And the fact that there are no bombs to save you.

Pointdevice is basically "Spell Practice everything back-to-back: the mode". That is terrifying because it's physically exhausting to retry so many times.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BB on May 10, 2015, 04:45:43 pm
Since Pointdevice is the main mode this time, I wonder what the 1cc requirements will be? Surely a perfect No Deaths run is too cruel?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2015, 04:56:15 pm
The game has a huge difficulty ramp because the game actually intends to give you infinite retries -during- a 1cc attempt, limited only by an extremely tiny power loss per death. This is... interesting balance :V

Legacy mode, however, will be utterly terrifying.

Bouncing back and forth between the two modes with different PCs here.

I get that your score leads to extends. But are the bomb fragments supposed to be visible? Because I don't think I see them.

What I do see a lot of is "Chapter Finish" appearing, in different parts of the screen and in different font sizes. It's actually pretty hilarious, and doesn't really get in the way, but I anticipate this is one of the bugs that will be worked out on the journey from 0.01a to 1.0.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on May 10, 2015, 04:59:21 pm
so is reimu's bomb supposed to form a big ball that occasionally explodes in your screen like a flashbang from COD and makes it impossible to see for a few seconds. It also seems to lock on to certain enemies at times?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: RegalStar on May 10, 2015, 05:01:47 pm
Every time you get a Chapter Finish, you get a bomb fragment if the score you get from it is above 1m. The score equals your graze number of the chapter, multiplied by the precentage of enemies shot down, multiplied by 5000. So if you shot down every enemy during a session, 200 graze is enough to get you a bomb fragment.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 10, 2015, 05:04:57 pm
The game has a huge difficulty ramp because the game actually intends to give you infinite retries -during- a 1cc attempt, limited only by an extremely tiny power loss per death. This is... interesting balance :V

You could think of it as a story-based ISC with only one item. That's sort of how it feels like to play it, anyway. You're given the Ultramarine medicine to jump back in time on death... and at that previous point in time, you hadn't yet used the item, so you can use it again, making it OMGWTFHAX levels of broken from everyone's point of view. Basically, this time you're the one using an impossible spell card.
But it's justified plot-wise against something as threatening as Lunarians, which have been told in manga to be way beyond our protagonists' skill level otherwise.

It's really fresh and memorable, and I appreciate it more the more I keep playing. I wasn't expecting ZUN to make something this conceptual for a main game, but it is the 20th anniversary after all. It could as well have been a Phantasmagoria game.

Since Pointdevice is the main mode this time, I wonder what the 1cc requirements will be? Surely a perfect No Deaths run is too cruel?

Ah, good point. Maybe the good ending is the only ending, with no fail condition other than giving up in frustration..? I mean, having limited lives in Pointdevice "after all" feels like it'd defeat the point.

(Also, think about what a bad ending would imply anyway. The protagonists being dead and Lunarians "purifying" all life in Gensokyo sounds too harsh for Touhou.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on May 10, 2015, 05:18:32 pm
So I guess this means we're back to Pre-EoSD where people are actually trying to kill the main characters now eh?

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 10, 2015, 05:20:32 pm
Since Pointdevice is the main mode this time, I wonder what the 1cc requirements will be? Surely a perfect No Deaths run is too cruel?

I guess a 1cc is if you NMB in Pointdevice mode. But in Legacy mode, I assume it's the same.

Or ZUN will take it easy on us and a clear is enough to unlock Extra.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on May 10, 2015, 06:29:51 pm
I just realised that the censor ship on the photo of the demo cd is real....
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 10, 2015, 06:46:47 pm
You could think of it as a story-based ISC with only one item. That's sort of how it feels like to play it, anyway. You're given the Ultramarine medicine to jump back in time on death... and at that previous point in time, you hadn't yet used the item, so you can use it again, making it OMGWTFHAX levels of broken from everyone's point of view. Basically, this time you're the one using an impossible spell card.
But it's justified plot-wise against something as threatening as Lunarians, which have been told in manga to be way beyond our protagonists' skill level otherwise.


Plot-wise, you don't really turn back time. If you die, it is treated as a "vision of the future" that you'll change by doing different moves, like that guy in the "Next" movie. Basically, all the game is just a vision of the future until you beat it.
Also, not ALL the lunarians are impossibly strong enemies. The only ones specifically overpowered are the Watatsuki (or rather, Yorihime), and i doubt they would destroy Gensokyo, since they are friendly with the Eientei group (unless they want to take them back to the Moon so badly to do something so drastic).

Of course, this being ZUN, "purifying" might mean something much less dangerous than it appears.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: 7TC7 on May 10, 2015, 06:58:55 pm
This is really important: If you get a checkpoint and pause the game and then just close the game. Or I guess even if it crashes for some reason. I you start the game again and select the same difficulty and character as before closing out of the game, it will ask you if you want to keep playing at your checkpoint. So you can actually play until like stage two, get stuck, close the game and try going further at a later time. This is awesome.

Edit: Further testing shows, the game can save a waypoint for each individual character, maybe even difficulty? And you can even quit back to title to save your progress for each individual player.

Edit2: Yes, every difficulty can also have his own save. So you can have a Reimu on hard in stage 3 and a Reimu on easy on stage 1 and a Marisa on normal in stage 2 all saved at the same time.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Jaimers on May 10, 2015, 07:08:25 pm
Lunatic Legacy 1cc. (http://t.co/CoQ1vSIO2j)

Game is pretty hard, I can only imagine what the full game will be like.

Also Reisen's shottype is literally from Darius Gaiden. And her bomb is literally the Darius Gaiden shield powerup.
Darius Gaiden is ZUN's favorite shmup after all I guess.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 10, 2015, 07:14:37 pm
You... You never cease to amaze...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 10, 2015, 07:17:39 pm
Just realized something, and now I'm wondering. In Legacy mode, how do you get lives?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on May 10, 2015, 07:28:28 pm
Just realized something, and now I'm wondering. In Legacy mode, how do you get lives?
Here:

It's probably stated elsewhere already, and might be obvious, but it looks like that the life system is back to points-based (Good ol' SoEW/EoSD/MoF). So far, I've got 30mil and 70mil as the first 2 extends. I can't play through Hard or Lunatic enough to find the next few XD (damn, these gals get brutal)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: microfolk on May 10, 2015, 07:35:38 pm
If you watch the end of Jaimer's replay (impressive work as always!) there is another breakpoint between 140m and 150m.
I hope it will be impossible to get all the extends without playing really well or trying at least a little bit to play for score~
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BB on May 10, 2015, 07:36:27 pm
I wonder if it'd be asking too much for replays in the final version to save all your deaths and play those out too, Super Meat Boy style...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kasei on May 10, 2015, 07:42:07 pm
I wonder if it'd be asking too much for replays in the final version to save all your deaths and play those out too, Super Meat Boy style...
Depends, aren't the random bullets different every time ? If so, it just would look like a whole bunch of deaths to nothing if it doesn't show the bullets of every single attempt, and if it did, that would just be way too many. Streamable bullets would have the same problem, too.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: WodofGar on May 10, 2015, 07:43:48 pm
Just realized something, and now I'm wondering. In Legacy mode, how do you get lives?
ZUN:
"Lives? HA!"

I have a feeling that Legacy mode is now Super Lunatic. The game does feel like a callback to the older Touhous with the points-to-lives system though, which I'm totally fine with.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: FlareDragon on May 10, 2015, 07:49:22 pm
Can I just call out the fact that Doremy/Doremi's 1st and 2nd boss spells are amazing? Seriously; they look like a bunch of bullet spam, but it has a really graceful(?) pattern once you figure out how to dodge it (and even then, Jaimers' playthrough shows just how brutal they can still be). Also, her theme keeps making me think of Alice's PCB theme.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: WodofGar on May 10, 2015, 07:52:47 pm
I already find Doremi horribly difficult on normal. Those graceful and deadly bullet clouds combined with danmaku that basically surrounds you makes for one of the hardest stage 3 bosses in the series. Seriously, can't wait to get wailed on by the Stage 4 boss when this game comes out.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2015, 07:58:23 pm
I am fine with the score = lives return, especially given the assist that Graze Freeze gives. Plus it'll encourage me to git gud.

Can I just call out the fact that Doremy/Doremi's 1st and 2nd boss spells are amazing?

Totally in keeping with the boss of a stage that looks like you just stepped into a nightclub from 1983.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 10, 2015, 08:06:52 pm
Depends, aren't the random bullets different every time ?
If the bullet trajectories are psuedorandom saving the seed should be enough. If they're truly random then it can't be done feasibly.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2015, 08:22:28 pm
Well we got some scenario translations up, and I don't mean to be an alarmist, but Ringo mentions the effects of some "madman" in the Lunarian Capital.

Is this an accurate translation, and if so, is it gender neutral? Would be quite the change of pace if it means exactly what it says.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: RCLeahcar on May 10, 2015, 08:26:00 pm
I have a feeling Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom will be one of the best releases in the series. At first I was a bit skeptical of how the 'gameplay changes' will turn out, but I do like the concept of the Pointdevice mode.

I really like the music of this game so far; it's interesting to see ZUN experimenting with a more technoey kind of sound. I think he must have revisited his PC-98 tracks and took some inspiration from them because there is a very PC-98-esque composition style to several of the pieces.

The character designs are really quirky and colourful. Doremy has quite an interesting, childish design. For some reason, she reminds me of Noddy (it's probably the hat), and her name made me think of the third season of Ojamajo Doremi where the witch apprentices were all patissiers. Probably because that anime was pretty much my favourite thing in my childhood. :3

I just hope the full version lives up to my expectations.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on May 10, 2015, 08:26:38 pm
Well we got some scenario translations up, and I don't mean to be an alarmist, but Ringo mentions the effects of some "madman" in the Lunarian Capital.

Is this an accurate translation, and if so, is it gender neutral? Would be quite the change of pace if it means exactly what it says.

Well both madman and madwoman exist so while I'm not sure I guess it'd be gender specific. It might be the translation though, I don't know if Japanese would distinguish them even if English does.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2015, 08:29:54 pm
Well we got some scenario translations up, and I don't mean to be an alarmist, but Ringo mentions the effects of some "madman" in the Lunarian Capital.

Is this an accurate translation, and if so, is it gender neutral? Would be quite the change of pace if it means exactly what it says.

Wasn't Chang'e supposed to be imprisoned in the moon?  Maybe she broke free and is the one Ringo talked about. 
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 10, 2015, 08:39:44 pm
First thing that came to mind when I reached stage 3 was Radar Scope.

http://i.imgur.com/nclAl8p.png
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5LjkUkAmMk
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: commandercool on May 10, 2015, 08:53:46 pm
Gameplay seems rock solid. Pointdevice is a cool idea that sounded a little dubious on paper, but in practice I think it does its job very well. I like it.

Not feeling the character designs at all yet though. Ringo and Doremi are a mess. Maybe I'll warm up to them.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 09:05:58 pm
Well we got some scenario translations up, and I don't mean to be an alarmist, but Ringo mentions the effects of some "madman" in the Lunarian Capital.

Is this an accurate translation, and if so, is it gender neutral? Would be quite the change of pace if it means exactly what it says.
I'll give it a shot: the Kanji used for "madman" is 狂人, from "madness" 狂気 and "people/person" 人. Nothing in the sentence specifies gender, ergo it's gender neutral. (Of course, I could be wrong, so corrections are very much welcome!)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ILikeBulletZ on May 10, 2015, 09:49:47 pm
Pretty impressed with this one, really :)


The game was a fair challenge on Normal. It actually put a fight without begin overkill-  Its more like the proper "Normal" should be (And not like the others who were relatively easy even the first time I did them...).


One question though... is Reisens hitbox bigger when using her bombs? I keep getting hit by bullets that, pretty sure should only have grazed... multiple times... but I only noticed it happened when I had the "shield" her bomb provides...strange...might be just me thought. I cant check because the replays are broken :/ (Is there a way to fix the replays?)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mero on May 10, 2015, 09:54:49 pm
So, this game's a thing.
Lunatic is no joke this time around. Resources-wise I thinks it's okay, given how you get both lives and bombs, it seems you have to try to score even for basic survival, so as Tengukami said, it encourages you to get good.

I'm iffy about Pointdevice mode right now, it's like a double-edge mechanic. On a full run, it seems a brute force way to get into patterns (as bombs are pretty scarce), and that can get exhausting rather quickly. However, it may very well be just perfect for practice mode, you can basically retry single sections/nonspells/Spells individually however many times you want.

The protags are kind of just there imo. Reimu and Marisa are just, well, Reimu and Marisa, after two games having the exact same thing, I find them pretty boring. Reisen is not as interesting as I thought she would be, but her bomb looks like it would be broken in Pointdevice mode in capable enough hands (but really, Reisen's waves pierce but Marisa's lasers still don't?  :wat:). Sanae on the other hand will probably be the girl I go with for this game, she has nice power, both focused and unfocused, and her bomb is not only stupid powerful, it lets you graze, so yeah, I believe she is this game's best shot.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 10, 2015, 10:06:22 pm
No kidding, this game is one of the hardest Touhou games of all time... heck even normal mode can qualify as hard in other games

I just tried hard mode, with waypoint, mind you, i didn't continue past stage 1, Seiren's last spell... i had no bombs ( yet somehow i beat it ) , i got powned like 20-30 times...

Lunatic in stage 1 is well close to ex stage difficulty, and i can't even imagine the section in stage 3 where the heroine is being bombarded by star danmaku from kedama's...

Also about Yorihime and Toyohime, appearing, it's likely because of the way Eirin's medicine behaves, Zun previously stated that the Watatsuki Sisters were too powerful for anyone in Gensokyo to even come close to handling, however, that may be possible with Eirin's medicine, which i am speculating if they appear, they would be in the 5th or EX stage, probably the latter.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 10:11:08 pm
Wasn't Chang'e supposed to be imprisoned in the moon?  Maybe she broke free and is the one Ringo talked about. 
There is a tenuous connection actually. And this started from reading about ULiL.

1. Merry and Renko share the theme "Strange Bird of the Moon, Illusion of Mysterious Cat."
2. The first three LoLK bosses are linked to birds: Seiran -> eagle, Ringo -> eagle, Doremy -> crane. (If anyone's wondering where I got "crane", look closely at her stage background.)
3. Doremy indicates that she was given the job (by whom?) to stop Reisen (presumably the protagonist, in general).
4. Cranes are associated with immortality in Chinese mythology.
5. The Chinese mythical figure Chang'e, as a drinker of the Elixir, is immortal. (Well, all Lunarians are considered immortals, but that's mostly due to purity than the inability to die.)


Off-topic: Doremy creeps me out. It feels like I've seen a similar character before that had the same effect on me... *shudders*
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: An Odd Sea Slug on May 10, 2015, 10:20:40 pm
I feel like this should be playing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU) everytime I die on Pointdevice mode.

That said, I was actually doing unusually well (probably all the practice I put into arcade shmups -especially Darius Gaiden- since February) until I got to Ringo and started jobbing rather hard to her nonspells; patterns like that really fuck with my eyes. Then again, this genre in general seems bad for my eyes. Then again, I've needed a prescription update for years.

I've actually spent more time in Legacy mode, as I find that pointdevice gets mind-numbing pretty quickly, not helped by the awesomely high difficulty spike this game represents. I may actually have to play easy mode, which I haven't done since SA. I started with normal, and ended up caught a bit off guard.

Aside from stage 1, Seirans theme and -maybe- the title screen, I'm also liking the music as well. Has that melodic feeling from old game soundtracks that the series had been missing for quite awhile. Also, +1 to the earlier comment about ZUN stepping up his mixing game. Ringo and Doremy's designs do nothing for me. Maybe fanart will fix that? And ever being the contrarian, I'm not enjoying the artwork at all.

If only the game would acknowledge my control pad. I'm not really liking playing on an analog stick; might have to break out my old Hori fightpad.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 10, 2015, 10:26:09 pm


2. The first three LoLK bosses are linked to birds: Seiran -> eagle, Ringo -> eagle, Doremy -> crane. (If anyone's wondering where I got "crane", look closely at her stage background.)
3. Doremy indicates that she was given the job to stop Reisen (presumably the protagonist, in general).



2.1 Doremy is a Baku, and Baku is a  tapir.
2.2 In these kind of connections, different characters should be linked to different creatures.
3. Doremy indicates that her job is just to guard the passageway from anyone, not specifically Reisen. A job she half-asses anyway. I think our enemy knew that she is against Eirin, and Eirin can send anyone (well, she sent everyone).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on May 10, 2015, 10:27:49 pm
No Darklord Reimu memes yet?
(http://s27.postimg.org/yxakh1yer/face_pl00bs.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: microfolk on May 10, 2015, 10:28:05 pm
Am I the only one who's puzzled by this section of the manual?

Quote
-Legacy Mode
Since the medicine seems to have some side effects, you can play without using it too.
You have the same old stock of lives as ever.
Can you shoot for a no-death clear with only your own strength?!

The last isn't implying we'll get some kind of reward if we'll manage to no-miss legacy mode... Right?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: WodofGar on May 10, 2015, 10:34:17 pm
I feel like this should be playing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU) everytime I die on Pointdevice mode.

One day, somebody is going to make a mod for it. That is the way of the weeabooWestern Fandom.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 10, 2015, 10:37:48 pm
Since when and where did it say that Reisen became a human all of a sudden? She is a pretty strange looking human with those bunny ears on her head and not to mention that she did come from the moon, making her still an alien.

Reisen's species is listed as human in Legacy in Lunatic Kingdom. It could be an error, but that is not very likely.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 10:38:51 pm

2.1 Doremy is a Baku, and Baku is a  tapir.
2.2 In these kind of connections, different characters should be linked to different creatures.

I didn't mean that Doremy is a bird. It's just that there are crane motifs in her stage.


3. Doremy indicates that her job is just to guard the passageway from anyone, not specifically Reisen. A job she half-asses anyway. I think our enemy knew that she is against Eirin, and Eirin can send anyone (well, she sent everyone).

Nor did I say that it's just Reisen, hence why I added "(presumably the protagonist, in general)."
The only reason why explicitly mentioned Reisen is because Doremy mentions it in her scenario. It's not clear in Reimu's, and Marisa's and Sanae's are not translated yet. :P

But like what I said at the start, it's just a weak connection.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 10, 2015, 10:41:43 pm
Pointdevice is balanced surprisingly well, in my opinion. There are many, many checkpoints (though once or twice I was like "aaarrrrrgh not this non-spell again!") and that helps you not immediately repeat that thing you did that got you killed last time, as it's a lot fresher in your mind.

But for me I'm mostly in Legacy Mode. Having to pay attention to things like grazing and points is a nice change of pace, though I'm relieved my beloved PoC whoring is still here.

Some people mentioned pointdevice as being like a practice run, and while I agree, Practice Start opening up will render that function obsolete. So I'm wonder how the endings for Pointdevice and Legacy will differ. While we're at it, what a good ending from Pointdevice will require.

I don't get the complaints about the character designs, which to me are wonderful. Especial Doremy. What I am really struggling with are those backgrounds, though, especially during Ringo. I literally leaned in inches from the screen with my eyes stuck to the hotbox at times (speaking of which, I love how the little eye shields around Reisen blink).

Musically, Ringo's theme is pretty great. It sounds like some European folk song, almost Slavic. Given the name, I was expecting it to be a little heavy on the drums.

Speaking of music: Seirin's theme is "The Rabbit Has Landed". This not only reference's Neil Armstrong's famous words upon landing on the Moon ("the eagle has landed" is what he said though, and Seirin is the Eagle Rabbit), but also, the exact phrase "the rabbit has landed" was used by lazy journalists around the world as a headline for news that China's own lunar probe - Chang'e 3 - landed on the Moon in December 2013.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 10, 2015, 10:51:26 pm
Ohh yeah, managed to clear Reisen's Pointdevice on Hard. It really was hard, as it should be. Heck, Normal was kind of hard already.

I think I've got the hang of Doremy's attacks now. Most of them had some kind of a gimmick that's almost necessary to beat them. I'm hoping for this puzzle aspect to be explored further in the upcoming stages, it's only good design in a game like this. (Though I can hear the Legacy players cringing far away.)

In general, Pointdevice is a great incentive to keep replaying cards and find possible tweaks in them, much like Spell Practice. In the older games, there were a few bits where I'd always just bomb my way through, even in the final 1ccs. Then again, saving bombs was part of the strategy. Here, bombs are less useful in a long-term sense, but they do have their place for something like Doremy's final attack. Reisen's bomb especially is made for Pointdevice.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 10, 2015, 11:00:16 pm
About the graze gimmick and points-for-lives:

WELCOME TO SUBTERRANEAN ANIMISM, IN SPACE!!!

Seriously, there's entire waves of enemies that only shoot homing bullets. If the Communication Meter was here, it would be giving Reimu and Co. a live 4k video feed through a Ying-Yang orb.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: gilde on May 10, 2015, 11:21:00 pm
Also, has anyone come across a certain glitch for Marisa, where the Master Spark graphic kinda just glitches and floats around the screen? (I'll get a screenshot up if I can replicate it)
Actually, I had a lot of random glitches, like visible hitbox on the boss or white flashes. Nothing really annoying, though.
I'm getting a ton of graphic glitches with other characters as well. Spooky red flames floating in midair, entire screen flashing red, etc.
and Ringo stole my hitbox graphic once wat
so is reimu's bomb supposed to form a big ball that occasionally explodes in your screen like a flashbang from COD and makes it impossible to see for a few seconds.
What I do see a lot of is "Chapter Finish" appearing, in different parts of the screen and in different font sizes. It's actually pretty hilarious, and doesn't really get in the way, but I anticipate this is one of the bugs that will be worked out on the journey from 0.01a to 1.0.

Seconding most of these, plus my hitbox leaping fifty feet across the screen one time. Most of the weird effects start happening around Stage 2, but only on Pointdevice Mode, and they seem to go away after restarting to a waypoint. The in-game description for Legacy Mode does mention that Eirin's medicine has "side effects", so... unless ZUN just messed up the coding in an absolutely unprecedented way, I think the weird graphical effects start happening if you go too long without using a waypoint?

edit:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax_MKil_R_8 ok perhaps not 'unprecedented', but.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 11:22:26 pm
狂人 is definitely gender-neutral. In fact, if there even were gender-specific terms, ZUN would probably go out of his way to switch to something gender-neutral anyways.

Re: Reisen being "human": As I mentioned on a previous page (and on the wiki), this is very likely a reference to the Eientei crew wanting to "be human" and integrate into human society by doing human-like things like working, which was elaborated on quite a bit in CiLR and is part of the reason SSiB even happened (see: Yukari wanting to get a "residential tax" from the Lunarians, along with the whole motivation to strike fear of the unknown into Eirin). Eirin and Reisen both do this (although Eirin has been referred to as Human since PMiSS), and I honestly didn't think about how clever this was until people started mentioning the "Species: Human" thing.



Also ha, I knew I had seen the background of stage 2 before. It's the Youkai Mountain lake BG from MoF stage 6. Looking at the dialogue now confirms this choice.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 10, 2015, 11:40:58 pm
Wait a sec. Is it just me or does that piano solo in stage 3 theme sound like... Moonlight Sonata?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 10, 2015, 11:43:39 pm
Okay, so I just played it. Here are my impressions:

>Game is harder than any other danmaku title. Even UFO and SA's difficulty pales in comparison.
>Graphics are amazing. I pretty much exploded when I saw Stage 3's visuals because it looked like we were on Space to me, but it's just a Dream World. :/ (still really good)
>...those. effin. Doremy's nonspells. I found them on Easy to be harder even than Futo's nonspells on HARD. I may be failing to see a pattern there but I dunno.
>Didn't understand Reisen's bombs at all.

Oh well, this game is indeed hard. I managed to get an Easy 1cc on it but that's all I can do atm. I could get one on Normal if I practice more but don't feel like it right now.  Maybe a Normal 1cc is the most I will be able to achieve on the Full version.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ExPorygon on May 10, 2015, 11:46:29 pm
>Didn't understand Reisen's bombs at all.
Reisen's bombs give you several free hits but make your hitbox considerably larger while its active.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 11:47:50 pm
Yet another thing: Ringo talks about "the Moon's style [of fighting], yet basically describes that you can't take a single hit, which is exactly the same as Spell Card Rules anyways. If I were to guess, I would say that 1) this is a way to reconcile the moon rabbits seemingly adhering to spell card rules, and 2) this seems to be a nudge by ZUN, in the sense of "Gee, what a 'coincidence' that the Spell Card Rules that may or may not have been drafted up by a mysterious unknown third party is similar to something from the Moon?!?!?"
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 10, 2015, 11:52:32 pm
Reisen's bombs give you several free hits but make your hitbox considerably larger while its active.

Oh, thanks! That will probably help me a lot since I only play for survival anyway. :V

I guess I'm getting too old and rusty on video games. Maybe I should retire, lol.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 11, 2015, 12:09:34 am
Thinking about this further, I was starting to anticipate a curveball for Pointdevice mode. While I have no problem with it, I don't see ZUN letting the game just loop nicely all the way to credits.

Then it hit me. The final boss won't have any checkpoints, because their power nullifies the Ultramarine medicine. Of course it does.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BB on May 11, 2015, 12:11:48 am
I feel like the threshold to get more bomb pieces should alter based on difficulty... it's very hard to get enough graze in Easy mode to get bomb pieces unless you leave everything alive long enough- and then you don't get the shooting bonus. It's also clear that a lot of rebalancing will need to be done to the length of each checkpoint, with the last one in Stage 3 being pretty much the entire second half of the stage.

Still, ZUN says he's still working on the system, so a lot of niggles will probably be ironed out by the Final release.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aListers on May 11, 2015, 12:19:28 am
I'm very much enjoying this new pointdevice system. After completing ESOD on normal (as well as most touhou games at the time) I decided that a 1CC was what I needed to aim at to improve. Unfortunately I never got much past stage 4 with a 1CC. This has lead to me instinctively ragequitting whenever I die twice in quick fashion or for doing something really stupid. This new system has made a fun way of getting round that. The difficulty is a lot higher but it's to make up for the fact that you can try and try again. Thing is that it makes me really want to do that. I hope that they release the full game in the west so that I can buy it and play the crap out of it. This new system was exactly what I needed to get my skill back after suddenly finding out that I was terrible at touhou about a month ago. I hope that this new system is here to stay because I need it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 11, 2015, 12:21:01 am
Mother of hell this is hard. Even easy is quite above my skill level (which admittedly is very, very low). Freaking Doremy, what even are those spellcards

Reisen's species is listed as human in Legacy in Lunatic Kingdom. It could be an error, but that is not very likely.
Drake already explained the joke, but in addition to that, the very first line of the description portion of her profile refers to her as a Moon Rabbit. So... yeah.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 11, 2015, 12:23:54 am
I hope that they release the full game in the west so that I can buy it and play the crap out of it.
THIS.

If the release of DDC on Playism is anything to go by, we should all be looking forward to LoLK being released the same way once the full version is out. Hopefully that won't be too long after the disks start getting sold.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 11, 2015, 12:29:52 am
Thinking about this further, I was starting to anticipate a curveball for Pointdevice mode. While I have no problem with it, I don't see ZUN letting the game just loop nicely all the way to credits.

Then it hit me. The final boss won't have any checkpoints, because their power nullifies the Ultramarine medicine. Of course it does.
The Ultramarine Orb medicine lets you experience the potential future, not go backwards. I'm not too sure how that can be circumvented.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 11, 2015, 12:39:36 am
although Eirin has been referred to as Human since PMiSS

That's because Akyuu didn't know about lunarians and honestly thought Eirin (and Kaguya too) is human. PMiSS is not completely accurate.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 11, 2015, 01:02:34 am
That's the whole point. She isn't -actually- human, just as Reisen isn't -actually- human. Despite being Lunarian and rabbit youkai, they choose to do human-like things (like the concept of "working") and essentially masquerade as humans. Eirin was just a case where she could fool people easily (although her behaviour is considered very weird, for good reason), while Reisen (as shown in FS) has to hide being a youkai but otherwise integrates with humans. As mentioned, this was a recurring theme throughout CiLR. I'm saying that ZUN is making a nod to all this (and also perhaps emphasizing Reisen being on the side of humans, against the other moon rabbits) by putting it in her profile. Obviously she didn't literally turn into a human.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 11, 2015, 01:06:40 am
This is really important: If you get a checkpoint and pause the game and then just close the game. Or I guess even if it crashes for some reason. I you start the game again and select the same difficulty and character as before closing out of the game, it will ask you if you want to keep playing at your checkpoint. So you can actually play until like stage two, get stuck, close the game and try going further at a later time. This is awesome.

Edit: Further testing shows, the game can save a waypoint for each individual character, maybe even difficulty? And you can even quit back to title to save your progress for each individual player.

Edit2: Yes, every difficulty can also have his own save. So you can have a Reimu on hard in stage 3 and a Reimu on easy on stage 1 and a Marisa on normal in stage 2 all saved at the same time.
Just noticed this, but this"save" feature also restores your power to the amount it was when the checkpoint was made if you exit and load the save. So, even if you die so much that you run out of power, you can just exit to the main menu and load the save again to get it all back.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ExPorygon on May 11, 2015, 01:21:04 am
Just noticed this, but this"save" feature also restores your power to the amount it was when the checkpoint was made if you exit and load the save. So, even if you die so much that you run out of power, you can just exit to the main menu and load the save again to get it all back.
I thought that your point item value also went down from reloading waypoints. Does exiting the game reset that too?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 11, 2015, 01:36:50 am
I thought that your point item value also went down from reloading waypoints. Does exiting the game reset that too?
Just did a quick check; as far as I could see that value does not go down at all when you reload a waypoint. Unless it goes down one at a time, which I didn't really die in a row enough to see.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2015, 01:48:37 am
Yet another thing: Ringo talks about "the Moon's style [of fighting], yet basically describes that you can't take a single hit, which is exactly the same as Spell Card Rules anyways. If I were to guess, I would say that 1) this is a way to reconcile the moon rabbits seemingly adhering to spell card rules, and 2) this seems to be a nudge by ZUN, in the sense of "Gee, what a 'coincidence' that the Spell Card Rules that may or may not have been drafted up by a mysterious unknown third party is similar to something from the Moon?!?!?"

Ha! That would be a telling origin story.

Also it seems the graphic problem a few of us have seen is in Stage 2. I also got the giant, floating hitbox in the middle of the screen, persisting through spellcards. It's kinda neat looking though.

Grazing on Easy (best I can manage on Pointdevice, still struggle with Normal Legacy) I can second is hard, for exactly the same reason BB mentioned. Except during spell cards, when graze goes off like a Geiger counter. I hover at around three bombs throughout. Getting point items by shooting at bullets that consequently spray more bullets at you adds to the fun.

Just did a quick check; as far as I could see that value does not go down at all when you reload a waypoint. Unless it goes down one at a time, which I didn't really die in a row enough to see.

Also handy to know!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on May 11, 2015, 02:00:13 am
Lunatic in this game is completely bonkers :V

Oh, and Sanae's shot type... just, pure, pure undiluted awesome.

Too bad Reisen's shot-type isn't very good, though.

Also, grazing stops point/power items from falling.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2015, 02:10:35 am
I guess where grazing is concerned it might be feasible to go virtually pacifist, bosses excepted, if you blast your way to 4 quickly enough. There are some replays on the High Score board on HME that I'm going to take a look at.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SomeGuy712x on May 11, 2015, 02:13:26 am
Hmm... Are the Pointdevice checkpoints that come immediately after a spell card not actually saving the points gained from that spell card bonus? I noticed that if I bit it on the pattern following a spell card that I captured and got the bonus for, my score was a few million points lower than I think it should've been at when I restarted from the checkpoint.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HertzDevil on May 11, 2015, 02:34:04 am
Also, [Doremy's] theme keeps making me think of Alice's PCB theme.
Yes, they have nearly the same chord progression in the intro, as does Ran's theme and Reisen herself's theme. It is quite refreshing to see ZUN bring that back from the previous games.

I dare say that every track in LoLK is better than the respective track in DDC that appears at the same location (except perhaps Ringo's theme).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on May 11, 2015, 02:48:26 am
How long does Reisen's bomb last?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Totalheartsboy on May 11, 2015, 02:56:13 am
How long does Reisen's bomb last?

I wouldn't exactly call it a bomb, but it lasts as long as you don't take many hits.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 11, 2015, 03:01:02 am
How long does Reisen's bomb last?

Until you get hit. It's like SA Nitori or DDC SakuyaA, but you can get hit up to three times. It does not cause a screen clear and gives very little invincibility frames.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Nolegs the Cat on May 11, 2015, 03:02:06 am
Until you get hit. It's like SA Nitori or DDC SakuyaA, but you can get hit up to three times. It does not cause a screen clear and gives very little invincibility frames.

... So it's pretty much clip deaths be-gone?
Not sure if that's broken or not :P

Though the fact each bomb essentially transforms into... 4? extra lives probably/definitely is.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ふねん1 on May 11, 2015, 03:08:35 am
So I just spent a bit of time with this game, and hoo boy is this leaps and bounds harder than DDC's patterns, which is saying something. And I've only seen Stage 1 so far. Trying to learn how to do stuff without bombing is a fair challenge, but those "flying-V wisps" are giving me real headaches. May have to steal a strategy from someone else who's already figured out an easier way to manage them lol. I can definitely see this being one of those games like DDC where I use the patterns to really push the limits of my skills and/or serve as a warm-up after a hiatus, though perfecting stages and other survival challenges may remain out of my reach without more dedicated practice.

I'm not sure I'm sold on Pointdevice Mode though. Having the waypoints is cool for practicing something later into a stage without having to restart all the time, but unless you can do something similar in Practice Mode itself in the full version, it may well become obsolete like Tengukami suggested (it would be easier just replaying that stage instead of trying to work your way to that point in the main game). Plus, one of the main reasons someone might use this feature for practice would be to find a way to score that 1 million points for a bomb fragment, but you need to trigger the next waypoint to find out if you succeeded, meaning you can no longer restart that waypoint and continue practicing (don't get me wrong, being able to pick and choose from multiple waypoints would be kinda broken, so perhaps this is more of a necessary evil). Also, am I the only one who finds it odd that there's no option on the pause screen to restart from the beginning of Stage 1 in Pointdevice Mode? Kinda compounds the whole unwieldiness of it as a way to practice specific spots of the game. I've honestly been doing most of my playing in Legacy Mode for that last reason - I don't have to go all the way back to the main menu if I want to study how to get a bomb fragment, or even learn how to handle the transitions between a stage section and a (mid)boss attack (yes, those are a thing). And I need to burn the earlier sections into my memory anyway.

About the graze gimmick and points-for-lives:

WELCOME TO SUBTERRANEAN ANIMISM, IN SPACE!!!
But SA has fragments-for-lives. :/
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2015, 03:20:42 am
I'm not sure I'm sold on Pointdevice Mode though. Having the waypoints is cool for practicing something later into a stage without having to restart all the time, but unless you can do something similar in Practice Mode itself in the full version, it may well become obsolete like Tengukami suggested (it would be easier just replaying that stage instead of trying to work your way to that point in the main game).

Just to clarify, I point this out to say the gameplay for Pointdevice likely has something to do with the narrative. Ditto the reason you can't resume the stage.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SirSlarty on May 11, 2015, 03:23:54 am
I don't like Marisa but her profile pic in LoLK is really pretty especially for ZUNart.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: mauve on May 11, 2015, 03:44:13 am
I was watching a friend play on stream last night and he noted that Pointdevice Mode felt like playing a romhack with save states, all the way to the music coming back to the same place every time.

Which I can totally see. It does give the same vibe of throwing yourself at something until you get through well enough for the next thing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SomeGuy712x on May 11, 2015, 03:48:31 am
How long does Reisen's bomb last?
It lasts until you get hit 3 times (like others said), or until you clear the stage you're on. I noticed that upon clearing a stage, any remaining shields I had were gone at the beginning of the next stage.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 11, 2015, 03:50:02 am
... So it's pretty much clip deaths be-gone?
Not sure if that's broken or not :P

Though the fact each bomb essentially transforms into... 4? extra lives probably/definitely is.

Oh, that might have been misleading. It clears bullets in a small circle after getting hit, but it doesn't do a full screen clear. You know when you die in Len'En? It's kind of the same, just with less invincibility frames.

It's not as great as it sounds. Plus Reisen is kind of meh as a shottype.

Eh, while I'm here I'll describe all the shottypes. Reimu is TD Reimu. Because the patterns in this game are so dense it can be hard to move around the screen. Her homing is extremely useful because of this. Her bomb is standard Fantasy Seal. As usual, her only "weakness" is that there are gimmicky shottypes that are better than her.

Marisa is DDC MarisaB, but with Master Spark for a bomb. The lasers are not piercing. She's strong and her focus shot does splash damage, but she has no range. Typical Marisa. And like I said, the patterns get really dense so Marisa will have a lot of trouble during stages.

Sanae's unfocused shot is like UFO SanaeB, her focused is like UFO SanaeA. Unfocused, she shoots slow moving frogs in a spread, and the frogs do splash damage. Focused, she has pseudo-homing. She fires snakes vertically. Once the snakes reach the height of an enemy, they move horizontally and hit that enemy. She can't hit enemies below her. (It's the same as UFO SanaeA). Her bomb is the same as UFO SanaeB's, the really long and really powerful one. I personally can't find any weaknesses with her.

Reisen's unfocused shot is a spread type. It's somewhat similar to MS Yuuka or IN Yuyuko- the individual bullets are strong, the spread covers a wide area, but you can't really shotgun with it. Her focused shot is a weak piercing type. Her bomb is like SA MarisaC or DDC SakuyaA, but it has no time limit and you can get hit up to four(?) times before the bomb ends. That said, it only clears a few bullets around Reisen and it gives very few invincibility frames so it's not as broken as it sounds. It's not noticable first but at full power Reisen will be doing much less damage than the other shottypes, and her bomb deals no damage at all.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mero on May 11, 2015, 03:59:33 am
... So it's pretty much clip deaths be-gone?
Not sure if that's broken or not :P

Though the fact each bomb essentially transforms into... 4? extra lives probably/definitely is.
it also makes Reisen's hitbox considerably larger, so I don't think it is that broken

Speaking of shottypes, the fact that Reimu's needle streams don't completely hit bosses bugs me like you have no idea
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 11, 2015, 04:07:16 am
Speaking of shottypes, the fact that Reimu's needle streams don't completely hit bosses bugs me like you have no idea

Story of my life T_T That's pretty much why I don't use Yukari in Subterranean Animism.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phantasmal on May 11, 2015, 04:20:08 am
Petition to ask ZUN to rename this one to "ZUN Tests Your Greed."
Also, if you're having trouble with Sweet Doremy's last spell, then go all the way to the bottom, and stick to horizontal movement ONLY.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 11, 2015, 09:21:21 am
Is there any trick to making Ringo's last spell less of Cannot see shit 「RNG Intensifies」?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 11, 2015, 10:24:24 am
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: angels above me on May 11, 2015, 10:39:02 am
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

What do you mean exactly?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 11, 2015, 11:17:54 am
What do you mean exactly?
Ever since Ten Desires, ZUN's works felt more and more like they're fan-made.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 11, 2015, 11:23:29 am
I understand your point better now
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: 7TC7 on May 11, 2015, 11:36:51 am
I know this isn't all that interesting, but I found it worth it, to note at least once. We could always see the moon from the Dream World. We just didn't know how easy it could be to reach through there.

(http://i.imgur.com/OKCg0RP.jpg)

Also interesting how the moon is kinda shrouded in mist in Mugetsu's fight, as if there was a barrier in between you and it, that is overcome by defeating her. The red grid in the background of stage 3 could very well emulate that (and, if you want to be really squint you eyes, it could even represent Gengetsu's cross.)

On another note, Reisen mentions that Doremy is the strongest being in the dreamworld, so either the MuGen-Sisters are just not as strong as her, or "beeing the strongest" in the dreamworld refers more to Doremy's ability and not acutal battle strenght or the sisters were just a dream/nightmare.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kasei on May 11, 2015, 12:26:03 pm
I just realised how fun pointdevice mode makes scoring; all those crazy grazes you notice as a possibility, but don't dare actually doing them in a full run, are now possible, since you can try a spell card or anything really over and over until you get it just right. Is there any downside to just killing yourself if you mess up  a graze ? I know you lose 0.01 power, which might make some spells captured less fast and therefore lose a bit of spell card bonus, but besides that, is there anything to discourage you from that ?
Also I really hope the full version does have replays enabled for pointdevice mode. It'll be really sad otherwise.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2015, 01:41:07 pm
Is there any trick to making Ringo's last spell less of Cannot see shit 「RNG Intensifies」?

Watched some replays this morning. It really seems like there's no "trick" beyond being good at dodging, though I've seen most folks hover about halfway between the bottom of the screen and Ringo.

Also, saw that the grazing "problem" (i.e. balancing grazing with building the shooting bonus) is relatively easy to rectify. Most of the better players seem to be killing everything in sight during stages, with moderate graze to keep items afloat for collection, but taking a different approach for bosses; shooting almost to the end of non-spells and spells and then grazing the shit out of bullets until there's like 3 seconds left on the timer, then blasting through. Both bombs and lives can be built up pretty effectively this way.

Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

I don't know what this means.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 11, 2015, 01:44:27 pm
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

I know exactly what you mean and I completely agree. I don't know how to describe it though. Like, these patterns would not fit at all in Imperishable Night, but they would fit very well in Concealed the Conclusion or War of Fox and Badger.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 11, 2015, 01:45:11 pm
wat
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 11, 2015, 01:45:36 pm
wat
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Camilo113 on May 11, 2015, 02:00:31 pm
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?
I don't know what this means.
wat
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: angels above me on May 11, 2015, 02:26:02 pm
I know exactly what you mean and I completely agree. I don't know how to describe it though. Like, these patterns would not fit at all in Imperishable Night, but they would fit very well in Concealed the Conclusion or War of Fox and Badger.
So what you're saying that the danmaku isnt pretty anymore?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on May 11, 2015, 02:26:11 pm
I think the only thing I can associate with calling his works more 'fanmade-ish' is that uhm.

Ermm.......
Uh..

Yep got nothing on me too.  Maybe his grasp at anatomy has been getting better when compared to EoSD's..?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 11, 2015, 02:32:26 pm
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

I remember thinking like that when DDC demo came out, and I had such thoughts this time. I think what gives such impression is that patters are less "aesthetic" and more "formulatic". Like, there's less needless flair that has no effect on how you dodge stuff, but which made watching the patterns pleasant. Now it really is more about things you need to dodge and how you dodge them. There are fewer things that are done "just because". Not like there were no simplistic, bare-bones patterns in older games, but it feels like there are more of them now.

Also, the music sounds less like "synthesizer that tries to sound like a real thing" and more like "synthesizer that sounds like a synthesizer". Not a bad thing per se, but still feels like a downgrade.

I'd suggest you don't give such thoughts much weight. When full version of DDC came out, I took back my thoughts about it being fangame-ish. And it's always been like that - stage 4 is where the game shows its true colors, demo stages are kept simplistic on purpose.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 11, 2015, 02:49:04 pm
Is it just me, or has ZUN's artwork also taken a couple steps down in quality? The ones from DDC were quite pretty and the anatomy was good, but the character artworks from LoLK look sort of...screwed up? Distorted? Not exactly sure how to put it. :S
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 11, 2015, 02:55:50 pm
I remember thinking like that when DDC demo came out, and I had such thoughts this time. I think what gives such impression is that patters are less "aesthetic" and more "formulatic". Like, there's less needless flair that has no effect on how you dodge stuff, but which made watching the patterns pleasant. Now it really is more about things you need to dodge and how you dodge them. There are fewer things that are done "just because". Not like there were no simplistic, bare-bones patterns in older games, but it feels like there are more of them now.

More complicated, sure. But I feel like the patterns that have been shown that do that also end up looking great. I was pretty impressed by Doremy's second and third spell (then cried because it took me a while to beat them), honestly.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Ozzter on May 11, 2015, 03:10:23 pm
Maybe I'm simple when it comes to aesthetics, but I thought there were plenty of nice looking patterns in DDC, especially Seija's fight in general. I think all the bosses in LoLK have really nice looking attacks, mainly with Ringo and Doremy, but I do kind of like Seiren's patterns as well. I like the artwork too, but to me there's just something about Marisa that does feel... off? I can't really explain it too well.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 11, 2015, 03:11:04 pm
But fan works are the most obnoxious at tossing needless flair around and using pretty patterns for the sake of looking pretty. I'm personally glad the pattern design has matured and became more like that of its peers (though to be fair "aesthetic" patterns was a problem with PCB and IN only; EoSD and the PC-98 games had very few of those).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2015, 03:24:20 pm
Yeah, I thought the art and bullet patterns in DDC were gorgeous.

And I also think ZUN's character designs are improving, in the sense that they look more "put together" and less like rough sketches, even though I'm aware they're hand drawn. I mean, he's ZUN, so the character art is always going to be wonky, but it looks like he takes a bit more time with them now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 11, 2015, 03:26:32 pm
Is it just me, or has ZUN's artwork also taken a couple steps down in quality? The ones from DDC were quite pretty and the anatomy was good, but the character artworks from LoLK look sort of...screwed up? Distorted? Not exactly sure how to put it. :S

ZUN's style has never been consistent, but there always was a "style" within each work. This one is no different. The only character art that looks weird no matter how you look at it is Ringo's.

I like the artwork too, but to me there's just something about Marisa that does feel... off? I can't really explain it too well.

She looks kinda stiff and uncomfortable on her broom. Certainly something not Marisa-like.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 11, 2015, 03:30:04 pm
I have no idea what people saying that recent games feel fanmade mean. The games always felt very consistent in terms of music quality, interesting patterns, and general art direction to me.

Ya'll just losing it to nostalgia :V (this is a joke. i'm not being serious)

ZUN's style has never been consistent, but there always was a "style" within each work. This one is no different. The only character art that looks weird no matter how you look at it is Ringo's.
Outside of her left hand, the portrait seems fine to me... what looks weird on her besides that?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on May 11, 2015, 03:30:22 pm
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?
I know exactly what you mean and I completely agree. I don't know how to describe it though. Like, these patterns would not fit at all in Imperishable Night, but they would fit very well in Concealed the Conclusion or War of Fox and Badger.
So what you're saying that the danmaku isnt pretty anymore?

I'll try to make some sense of this. Well, for me, personally i find the danmaku in EoSD lacking. Not (necessarily) gameplay-wise, but rather the aesthetics are a pet peeve. Specifically, compare the sprite sheets from EoSD (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhoukoumakyoutheembodimentofscarletdevil/sheet/33553/), with later games (http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/touhoufuujinrokumountainoffaith/sheet/51907/), just simply PCB who adds triangles and butterflies, or IN who adds stars (2 sizes) and amulets. We have even more than than, like arrows (the ones you use along a bow), music sheet symbols, glowing spheres, alpha channel (that one thanks to advances in software, but whatever). I see this problem with quite a share of fangames, though a lot of this is after being exposed to the high variety of bullets we have today (made by ZUN, or danmakufu ph3 making  easier than ever to add new bullets and other visual effects, at least compared to 0.12m). LoLK seems to use an overabundance of red and blue bullets (mostly on stage portions, but bosses also suffer from this), and simple spheres and diamonds. However, maybe this is the most appropriate thing, with people being from the moon on a full-on invasion, wanting raw power instead of more intricate designs.

Also, is this game meant to represent what happens when people are exposed to the true moon? I mean every aspect, like the color of the HUD, the backgrounds, the spell card backgrounds, the music (wanting a more "techno"-like ambient rather than using "traditional" instruments), the particularly high density/speed of enemy attacks...

Also, when i first saw Ringo, my dirty mind played a trick on me and i saw her having a bulge in her pants. Damn, i don't even watch that specific kind of artwork.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Soul Devour on May 11, 2015, 03:34:46 pm
I don't know what this means.

The only possible thing I could come up with that would make sense is that the game feels more amateurish compared to older titles, or don't feel as 'authentic' as the older titles. The bullet patterns aren't as clever / memorable as they were back in the day or the stories don't feel like they matter at all and are just all made up on the spot with various references to history and folklore thrown in.

I don't know.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Heian_Alien on May 11, 2015, 03:41:57 pm
The only possible thing I could come up with that would make sense is that the game feels more amateurish compared to older titles, or don't feel as 'authentic' as the older titles. The bullet patterns aren't as clever / memorable as they were back in the day or the stories don't feel like they matter at all and are just all made up on the spot with various references to history and folklore thrown in.

But the patterns are now PATTERNS instead of good looking, aesthetically pleasing spam. Also the story this time around is actually pefectly tied to Gensokyo lore from non-game canon material as well as 14.5. I don't really get what you mean. It must really be
nostalgia affecting you. If anything, earlier games feel more amateurish compared to this, with stages that have no flow or consistency and boss fights which are good but kinda random patterns put one after the other,rather than having a theme.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Soul Devour on May 11, 2015, 03:51:05 pm
But the patterns are now PATTERNS instead of good looking, aesthetically pleasing spam. Also the story this time around is actually pefectly tied to Gensokyo lore from non-game canon material as well as 14.5. I don't really get what you mean. It must really be
nostalgia affecting you. If anything, earlier games feel more amateurish compared to this, with stages that have no flow or consistency and boss fights which are good but kinda random patterns put one after the other,rather than having a theme.

Hey, I'm just trying to figure out what was meant by that comment. Please don't assume I also feel that way.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 11, 2015, 03:54:26 pm
or the stories don't feel like they matter at all and are just all made up on the spot with various references to history and folklore thrown in.
This is a far more accurate description of Touhou 6 to 9 than anyting after. Touhou 10 is when the stories between games actually started to get connected to any degree higher than "some characters from previous games appear in this one too". 14 doesn't have a relation to 13.5, but it does have a direct one to 14.3, and 14.5 is connected to 15.

And most if not all characters in general actually have a connection to the story, lately. Everyone from DDC was involved in the plot, from the weak youkai attacking humans because of the mallet's influence, to the tsukumogami who were given life by it, to the two that actually started the thing. LoLK so far has two rabbits that are part of the invasion force, and a baku that control the area that the protagonist needs to use. Compare that to the likes of Rumia, Wriggle, Mystia, Cirno (in EoSD), Letty, Kisume, Yamame, etc etc etc, who are literally only there so you have something to fight at the end (or middle) of the stage.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 11, 2015, 03:55:26 pm
Outside of her left hand, the portrait seems fine to me... what looks weird on her besides that?

Her right foot. Which wouldn't be so bad, since I understand it's ZUNart and all, but it's literally thrown into one's sight due to her pose.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 11, 2015, 03:57:48 pm
Her right foot. Which wouldn't be so bad, since I understand it's ZUNart and all, but it's literally thrown into one's sight due to her pose.
I was going to say "well it doesn't look that bad for zunart" but...
...now the more I look at it the weirder it gets...

Eh, still better than Sakuya's EoSD face :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 11, 2015, 04:06:10 pm
The only possible thing I could come up with that would make sense is that the game feels more amateurish compared to older titles, or don't feel as 'authentic' as the older titles. The bullet patterns aren't as clever / memorable as they were back in the day or the stories don't feel like they matter at all and are just all made up on the spot with various references to history and folklore thrown in.

I don't know.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not saying it's amateurish or worse in any way. Cyber Angel hit the nail on the head- the patterns are less intricate and the music is much different than ZUN's older works. Compare "Flower Wither Away" to the blue bunny's last spell. We don't have any of that unnecessary curvy stuff. Or Mystia's "Poisonous Moth's Scale" to Sekibanki's "Multiplicative Head". Seiga is another example. The newer patterns aren't bad, though, they just don't seem like classic touhou.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 11, 2015, 04:10:19 pm
You probably haven't played anything before PCB.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Heian_Alien on May 11, 2015, 04:11:28 pm
Hey, I'm just trying to figure out what was meant by that comment. Please don't assume I also feel that way.

Whoops, bad reading comprehension on my part.

Also posting in a touhou section after 2 years of not doing so! I don't know almost anyone
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 11, 2015, 04:16:39 pm
You probably haven't played anything before PCB.

Actually, now that I think about it, it does feel like a PC-98 game (which I do play). I want to emphasize that I'm not saying it's bad I'm just saying that since MoF the games have gradually removed the intricateness of the patterns. It's an observation, not a criticism.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: nyttyn on May 11, 2015, 04:38:47 pm
Personally, I think the new, less flashy patterns are probably for the better. They still have their gimmicks, still have their nuances to dodge, and imo they still look good, but now there's not as much random crap that can occasionally get a cheap KO on you.

Anyway, I wouldn't knee jerk to any conclusions on the story/characters based on the first three stages alone. Stages 1 through 3 are usually irrelevant throwaway characters, story wise - That's not to say they can't go on to be fan favorites (Mystia) or important to the story (Alice), and UFO was a huge exception in that every single character went on to be either relevant or at least notable in people's minds, but typically they're just random goons that get beaten up on the way to the real threats/memorable characters (stages 4-6, EX). Only real observation is that Ringo's about as notable as a stage 1, but otherwise Doremy seems pretty reasonable for a stage 3.

Keep in mind none of these characters have the benefit of an expanded fanon / mythos yet - Rumia, by herself, is pretty lame without a lot of her fanon/fan art, for example. I'd give them time - except Ringo, Ringo's p lame (though I think we have our new Wriggle, insofar as genderswap tier goes).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Ozzter on May 11, 2015, 04:54:16 pm
I-I thought Ringo was pretty neat...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 11, 2015, 05:12:37 pm
I-I thought Ringo was pretty neat...

I think so too) Plus, she is the first plot-relevant stage 2 boss XD (well, Chen's relevance is too loose). So, she will probaly be pretty popular as part of the team, like Nazrin is.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: 16thBrumaire on May 11, 2015, 05:46:59 pm
New guy here, registered since there's such an interesting discussion going on. Dunno how much new stuff I can contribute, but eh.

While I can kinda-sorta see where the crowd saying that the overall aesthetic of the game has deteriorated is coming, I can't but disagree.
In my opinion, this game represents a large step up from DDC, which while hardly bad or anything left me with a kind of vapid feeling when compared to the likes of SA. It seems to me that LoLK has far better of an idea what it's trying to be aesthetically - in truth, this is something rather different form much of the 6-onwards era Touhou and closer to PC-98 titles.

People have already discussed where this return resides in, effectively the points can be summarized as:
1) Patterns are simpler - I'd say this is far truer regarding the first two stages, as Doremy's patterns have a tad more nuance to them. This recalls the 98 games, where lest I'm mistaken this was partially due to technical limitations and partially due to ZUN's relative inexperience. If we are to take the current patterns as a return, I'd say it is a far more nuanced one. 
It seems that the relative simplicity is limited to the members of the Lunarian invasion force. From the story perspective this makes sense - as someone has pointed out many a page ago, this is
a) A military invasion with little respect for spellcard rules - thus the narrative need for the pointdevice mode
b) An invasion led by the Eagle Rabbits - a highrisk low-waged unit;
It seems sensible to me that these guys would be far more focused on sheer pragmatism than showing off. As has been already noted, from a functionalist point of view, the patterns are actually better, which strikes a wonderful union of story and gameplay.

2) The music has stopped being synthesizer-pretend-real instruments and has now shifted more towards synthesizer-being-synthesizer. The overall beat seems to remind me of the faster paced PC-98 tracks (though it is equally as well likely that the memory is simply fooling me). Where this was imposed by the 16 bit hardware, here it fits the overall theme - the technoish aspects reflect the extraterrestrial nature of the foe, while the faster beat the dire situation.

3) The graphics are a step back. ZUNart being ZUNart aside - and having recently played EoSD I can scarcely comment - the overall colour scheme seemed to evoke PC-98'ish style as well, appropriately enough this seems particularly true of stage 3. The overabundance of red-and-blue bullets seems to conform to this as well.

Overall, if I were to speculate as to why such similarities to 98 style (which in all fairness could be accidental and unintended), I'd say it has to do with the overall change in tone since we seem to be returning to the "external realm is invading Gensokyo and actually trying to kill the protagonists." Furthermore it could be an attempt to anchor the radical changes in gameplay to a more traditional background in hopes of not making it feel foreign to the series overall.
I can see how some mightn't like this, but I'd say ZUN has succeeded on both fronts - the aesthetic seems well integrated, something he's been moving towards increasingly since MoF and aside from a few kinks which will hopefully be ironed out, the gameplay changes seem well though out.  Of course, I am a tad biased seeing as this is the very first mainline game to have happened in my time, so take this with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on May 11, 2015, 06:11:28 pm
From seeing Doremy's spell card's names (on the wiki), do the colors (in order: scarlet, indigo, ochre, azure, ultramarine) follow certain theme, or it is simple randomness?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on May 11, 2015, 06:26:57 pm
The colors seem to be mostly variations of blue, with the exception of scarlet and ochre, which are a red and yellow-ish color respectively, so there might not be much in the way of a theme.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on May 11, 2015, 06:53:13 pm
The colors seem to be mostly variations of blue, with the exception of scarlet and ochre, which are a red and yellow-ish color respectively, so there might not be much in the way of a theme.

Now that you say it, i made a day one headcanon (take with a grain of salt): these colors are a reference to red/blue/yellow, the primary colors used in painting (compare to red/green/blue used in tech and yellow/cyan/magenta/black used in printing). Now see Doremy's dress, it's all black and white (and grey as well, but some could interpret it as shades).

Red, blue, yellow, black, and white, out of these basic colors you can make the rest in paintings. Doremy's ability manages dreams, she is a painter of sorts.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on May 11, 2015, 07:00:38 pm
The dream of Kaian about the man and the ant hill was one of the main stories in Lafcadio's collection, and part of the Dreamt I was a Butterfly motif.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the madman causing a ruckus in the capital right now was Maribel.  Heck, with the final boss of ULiL, it seems ZUN might be on a real sealing club binge here...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Picochilla on May 11, 2015, 07:13:10 pm
Somehow i found that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7G8Rh2T6b4 (Attention! Can cause Motion Sickness!)

Now my Head is spinning around too...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: FlareDragon on May 11, 2015, 07:32:44 pm
Somehow i found that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7G8Rh2T6b4 (Attention! Can cause Motion Sickness!)

Now my Head is spinning around too...
What's funny is that when I first saw it (which was actually when I was playing it), I thought it was Marisa trying to make a Master Spark/Non-Directional Laser combination XD (This thought evaporated quick enough when the laser spazzed out soon after)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 11, 2015, 07:34:36 pm
Alright, I think I'll toss my two cents in this discussion :

Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?
I'd say ZUN only put newly acquired experience that he didn't have around the time he made the older game into use : the newer games's style differs quite a bit when compared to the older ones, and that's about it. Obviously, the older games's instruments had their own charm with them, and since these mainly gave image of Touhou, it's understandable that slightly getting away from it might seem like not fitting into what is usually thought that makes Touhou games Touhou like. Remember that ZUN is an experiment maniac love experimenting with his games, regardless of what we'll think ; and if I may say, this game's pointdevice gimmick is quite an evolution compared to the older works (heck, the way he expressed this made me think he'd quit the traditional format of the games)

And about the fanmade-ish-ness of the newer games : I have to disagree with this because of reasons that have already been stated by other people. I'll just say that in general, the fangames are the ones trying to copy the style of ZUN's work: did you like a certain fangame's music more than a main game's music ? Then that has nothing to do with quality, only personnal preferences, nothing else.
If you compare the newer games's patterns with some fangames's patterns like, say, Riverbed Soul Saver's stage 5 boss's two last spells (and pretty much all of the phantasm boss's spells), the pattern start in a way, then it spreads, then it breaks and you get all kinds of bullets with more color than necessary: it doesn't have structure (I like RSS btw, I don't mean to insult it but seriously, some patterns are absurd) ; but the newer games have structure : the boss throw two to three different waves, rince and repeat, the color and patterns are not modern art level of ridiculous and, for the ones that rely on gimmicks, the gimmicks are pretty easy to figure out right on the go *cough*screen flip*cough*. There are actually more straightforward spells who are pretty simple but nevertheless entertaining (Doremy's spiral spells seems fun to me)

And what of the character design ? Well, IMO, some fangames try to make the character design TOO elaborate to be remembered or textbook touhou OC (trust me, they are easily recognisable) : design are nice and all, but settings ARE even more : anyone can give a character they make a backstory of some sort, but settings are not the biggest part of a character. Heck, just look at Cirno. Alright, so how is, say, LoLK in this regard ? Well, we have two rabbits with very PLAIN clothing but actual relevances to the plot. The end. There is more to characters than just frills, hats and drama.

And the music ? Well, like I said, fanworks try to be like official works when it comes to recreating Touhou's atmosphere, BUT then again, ZUN makes sure the music fits the game's atmosphere : is techno-ish untouhou-like ? Well, if the guy thinks it fits the atmosphere better, then that's it. Fangames do this too, but they copy the older touhou games's style IMO.



 Anyway, to sum this up, IMO the problem is pretty much "how the series used to be" VS "what the series has become", nothing else. It's not getting fanmade-ish, rather the fanmade stuff became better at copying the official things. Besides, I think it's contradictory that the games's quality'll go down at the same time where ZUN's ability as a creator go up.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 11, 2015, 07:46:36 pm
ZUN makes sure the music fits the game's atmosphere : is techno-ish untouhou-like ? Well, if the guy thinks it fits the atmosphere better, then that's it.

I can even say he makes sure the atmosphere fits the music)

Thank you for long explanation, btw. Totally agree.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 11, 2015, 08:34:52 pm
I've noticed that you can graze a bullet more than once and there is some sort of graze bonus for either grazing one bullet a certain number of times (3x?) or grazing a ton of bullets really fast, either way the graze mechanics seem to be a huge part of the game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 11, 2015, 08:39:01 pm
And the music ? Well, like I said, fanworks try to be like official works when it comes to recreating Touhou's atmosphere, BUT then again, ZUN makes sure the music fits the game's atmosphere : is techno-ish untouhou-like ? Well, if the guy thinks it fits the atmosphere better, then that's it. Fangames do this too, but they copy the older touhou games's style IMO.

And if anything, it's the game that fits the music - as we saw on that recent news blurb on Touhou, he makes the music first, then the rest of the game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: WodofGar on May 11, 2015, 09:06:49 pm
And if anything, it's the game that fits the music - as we saw on that recent news blurb on Touhou, he makes the music first, then the rest of the game.

I feel like if people made games like this, the games would be a lot more immersive. Making a game for the music rather than making music for the game really puts emphasis on the soundtrack, but I hope it doesn't make the game dull ^^;
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on May 11, 2015, 09:55:51 pm
huh doesn't feel PC-98 at all to me IDK I always felt pc-98 games focused on much faster bullets.  LOLK so far I feel has dense as hell patterns.

The only windows games that I felt was pc-98 was EOSD and that makes sense though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 12, 2015, 12:19:31 am
I always thought the best thing about EoSD is how the bullet patterns go from PC-98 like to something else over the course of the game. Could be imagining it, but it plays that way to me. LoLK is very much a late ZUN game as far as the patterns go, imo. Although Doremy does a great homage to Eirin with those familiar bacterial bullets.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SirSlarty on May 12, 2015, 01:56:01 am
Doremy does a great homage to Eirin with those familiar bacterial bullets.

I had PTSD flashbacks when I saw those.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 12, 2015, 02:06:18 am
I had PTSD flashbacks when I saw those.
Seconded. Once the webdemo comes out I'll be torturing myself with it :colonveeplusalpha:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 12, 2015, 02:36:49 am
Although Doremy does a great homage to Eirin with those familiar bacterial bullets.
I call them Seija bullets, mostly because they're EVERYWHERE in Seija's non-spells.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 12, 2015, 03:06:48 am
I forsee a lot of Beatles jokes about Ringo in the near future.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Garlyle on May 12, 2015, 03:25:50 am
Somehow i found that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7G8Rh2T6b4 (Attention! Can cause Motion Sickness!)

Now my Head is spinning around too...
my mind immediately shouted GET DOWN (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7aY-_b9sk)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 12, 2015, 03:36:42 am
This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA2cU5C5O6Y&feature=youtu.be&t=58s) came to mind, among many other things.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 12, 2015, 04:09:42 am
i thought DDC's danmaku was really dull looking personally, but didn't ZUN say he wanted to focus more on gameplay anyway? would make sense if the cards in are more attack-y rather than just being dumb gimmicks. UFO was really pretty to look at but shit to play (disclaimer: normal mode player opinion). not sure about this since i only watched videos and not much stuck with me, but keep in mind you're judging off the first three stages anyway. i'm really into the dream-esque space aesthetic, it's a neat departure from the typical touhou fare...

EDIT - also: spell card aesthetics become 100x more enjoyable when you view them as a personal expression of the user. seiga's about function over aesthetic, gotta get this bitch out of the way quick so she can go back to harassing humans and whatever else actual sociopaths do in gensokyo. thousands of kunai might not look pretty but if you're a braindead zombie trying to keep people away from a gate they're pretty appealing. shinmyoumaru's like a kid so it's easier for her to hit one big target with few bullets than one small one with a lot. IN has the most beautiful danmaku because being from the moon inherently makes you better at everything (basically canon)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Banim on May 12, 2015, 07:34:24 am
So from looking at videos and recent developments in Touhou lore... Holy moley. I want to say that ZUN is setting up something really big, or it feels like that to me... I already fell on my ass when I saw the last boss of ULiL and what led to it. LoLK has this sense of urgency and desperation so far that can be felt in the music and what I've read in what has been already translated from character dialogues, particularly Reisen's path. This isn't your everyday incident in Gensokyo. Perhaps, in typical ZUN fashion, it will be as always and everyone will end up being friends and blahblah, but this time it really does feel like there's something extremely shady and dangerous going on. I have absolutely no idea where all of this is going, all I have to say is that I'm impressed and maybe a bit too hyped.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 12, 2015, 10:19:55 am

I'm also too hyped. None of the games before gave me intense feelings like this time.
Reading the translation of the backstory in the manual, shit is getting real for good. It really feels like an apocalyptic thing going on. The fact that youkai can't interfere with this, makes it look even weirder and otherworldy.
I mean, there's this mechanical spider that is destroying/killing everything in its path, creating a "lifeless world", and tengu are NOT paying attention to it?  It gives me chills just imagining it.



Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 12, 2015, 11:30:26 am
Are people here really complaining about the music here in this demo?!?

I'm loving every single one of the tracks included with the 3 bosses. Eternal Spring Dream (Doremy's theme) is particularly nice and catchy and they all contain ZUN's trademark features that make them excellent to listen to.

The story is particularly interesting as well. The stakes are higher this time since the fate of Gensokyo is in jeopardy by these moon invaders. I always wished that ZUN in his games would raise the stakes of the incidents and here he did. I'm loving it.

The only thing I'm questioning is that in SSiB our heroines had to reach the moon by their god rocket or Yukari's moonlight lake-shine gap. Now all of a sudden they figured out they could travel to the moon by going though the dream world? That's pretty darn convenient... unless Gensokyo's gals have been doing some research into alternative ways to reach the moon since then.

How douse one get their physical presence to the dreamworld anyway to reach the moon? Well, I guess I am asking to much of a land called Gensokyo that has both the netherworld and the Sanzu River in the same landscape.

e: Yo guys, I just went to the Touhou Patch Center Tumblr page and found this as a tweet:

Th15 patch work by Brliron underway! A working GUI by Nmlgc is also being designed. Please wait warmly for future updates!

IS IT TRUE YOUR WORKING ON A TRANSLATION PATCH BRLIRON?!?! IF SO, THEN THANK YOU SO MUCH YOU WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL MAN!!!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 12, 2015, 01:04:55 pm
I call them Seija bullets, mostly because they're EVERYWHERE in Seija's non-spells.

Well it's not just the shape of the bullets; it's how they move. Seija's are arranged in curved rows with a simple scissor attack. In Doremy's case, they do the same seemingly chaotic, slow creep we saw in IN. It's a pretty clear nod to Eirin.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 12, 2015, 02:18:38 pm
The only thing I'm questioning is that in SSiB our heroines had to reach the moon by their god rocket or Yukari's moonlight lake-shine gap. Now all of a sudden they figured out they could travel to the moon by going though the dream world? That's pretty darn convenient... unless Gensokyo's gals have been doing some research into alternative ways to reach the moon since then.

My guess it's because this way is for rabbits only (Reisen's scenario), and only lunarians and moon rabbits know about it. Well, our crew now knows too, since Reisen told them.

Well, I guess I am asking to much of a land called Gensokyo that has both the netherworld and the Sanzu River in the same landscape.

Netherworld and the likes are not part of Gensokyo though) It's just that it's easier to get there from Gensokyo.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: shockdude on May 12, 2015, 02:59:15 pm
e: Yo guys, I just went to the Touhou Patch Center Tumblr page and found this as a tweet:

Th15 patch work by Brliron underway! A working GUI by Nmlgc is also being designed. Please wait warmly for future updates!

IS IT TRUE YOUR WORKING ON A TRANSLATION PATCH BRLIRON?!?! IF SO, THEN THANK YOU SO MUCH YOU WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL MAN!!!
Sounds more like brliron is adding TH15 support to thcrap (he's also added partial support for the Playism TH14 trial). Nmlgc is just working on a proper GUI for thcrap, which'll be really nice.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Wolfolotl on May 12, 2015, 03:43:15 pm
I don't know if other people feel this, but for some reason LoLK feels kinda campy to me. don't get me wrong, it's a good campy that I enjoy a lot! but for whatever reason the techno music and the plot of an alien invasion from the mood just feel a lot like a b-movie
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 12, 2015, 03:51:27 pm
I still don't know how to earn bomb pieces in this game, can you guys help me? Also how do you earn lives?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 12, 2015, 03:56:52 pm
I still don't know how to earn bomb pieces in this game, can you guys help me? Also how do you earn lives?

At the end of every chapter a little screen will come up with a score. Your score is based on how many enemies you shot down (in a percentage) and how much graze you got. If you have 100% of enemies shot down and at least 200 graze, you'll get a bomb fragment (you need 5 for a full bomb). Your score is multiplicative; if you have 100% enemies shot down and 200 graze, you get a fragment. If you have 50% enemies shot down and 400 graze, you get a fragment. If you have 75% enemies shot down and 300 graze, you get a fragment. Make sense?

Lives are based on your score (not your chapter score, your actual score) like in EoSD and MoF. I don't remember the exact numbers at which you get lives, but I think it's 30 million and 70 million.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 12, 2015, 04:02:00 pm
At the end of every chapter a little screen will come up with a score. Your score is based on how many enemies you shot down (in a percentage) and how much graze you got. If you have 100% of enemies shot down and at least 200 graze, you'll get a bomb fragment (you need 5 for a full bomb). Your score is multiplicative; if you have 100% enemies shot down and 200 graze, you get a fragment. If you have 50% enemies shot down and 400 graze, you get a fragment. If you have 75% enemies shot down and 300 graze, you get a fragment. Make sense?

Lives are based on your score (not your chapter score, your actual score) like in EoSD and MoF. I don't remember the exact numbers at which you get lives, but I think it's 30 million and 70 million.

Oh ok thanks! Does getting hit while  Reisen's " bomb barrier " is active reduce score?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 12, 2015, 04:16:54 pm
If you have 75% enemies shot down and 300 graze, you get a fragment.

No you don't) For 75% shot you need 267 graze and for 66.7% shot you need 300 graze.
Also, when fighting boss, shot count will always be 100% (unless you timeout), so getting 200 graze is enough.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 12, 2015, 04:25:52 pm
No you don't) For 75% shot you need 267 graze and for 66.7% shot you need 300 graze.
Also, when fighting boss, shot count will always be 100% (unless you timeout), so getting 200 graze is enough.

Oh, my bad ^_^ that's how you get bombs, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Star King on May 12, 2015, 04:33:46 pm
OK, how on Earth are you supposed to survive the laser + aimed bullet fairy section directly before the stage 3 midboss on Lunatic?

That was the one part I was unable to get past without bombing, and I tried many times. Yes I know the lasers are suicide bullets. Still can't do it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SomeGuy712x on May 12, 2015, 06:04:48 pm
Also, when fighting boss, shot count will always be 100% (unless you timeout), so getting 200 graze is enough.
Actually, there was one time where I got a shot down percentage of 50% when I finished the first midboss battle in stage 1, which confused me, and denied me a bomb piece since I had only gotten 300-something graze there. Unfortunately, I was playing on Pointdevice mode when that happened, so I couldn't save a replay of this. Hmm... Could one of the previous chapter's lingering enemies just before that midboss battle have somehow erroneously counted towards the percentage?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 12, 2015, 06:19:55 pm
OK, how on Earth are you supposed to survive the laser + aimed bullet fairy section directly before the stage 3 midboss on Lunatic?

That was the one part I was unable to get past without bombing, and I tried many times. Yes I know the lasers are suicide bullets. Still can't do it.

My solution is hide to hide in the top right corner. It's still hard though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Star King on May 12, 2015, 06:21:31 pm
I do that already when it's just the laser fairies, but that doesn't work once the aimed fairies come.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: shockdude on May 12, 2015, 06:26:19 pm
Can you save a replay in PointDevice mode if you make it through without dying, or can you only save replays in Legacy mode?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on May 12, 2015, 07:04:16 pm
Can someone decipher the stats at the bottom of the result screen? The only thing that I can understand is playtime, probably, but the other two I don't.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SomeGuy712x on May 12, 2015, 07:48:04 pm
Can you save a replay in PointDevice mode if you make it through without dying, or can you only save replays in Legacy mode?
I tried that on Easy mode once, and even though I completed Pointdevice without a single retry there, the game still didn't give me the option to save a replay. So, I guess replays are Legacy-only (at least right now).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mero on May 13, 2015, 02:15:35 am
I do that already when it's just the laser fairies, but that doesn't work once the aimed fairies come.
what's worse is they aren't actually aimed, they're just shot in your direction, like the yinyangs in UFO stage 6, and it's not like you can pacify with that many enemies on screen, either you run into them or get shot
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on May 13, 2015, 03:11:00 am
So guys I was thinking....  Do you think that what Doremy holds is a...

Yume Nikki?  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 13, 2015, 07:06:26 am
Quote
This isn't your everyday incident in Gensokyo.

The first 3 games, Touhou 6, 7, and 8 were major incidents. After that, Touhou 9 and on, there weren't major real incidents. I'm guessing this incident feels like the earlier games?

Quote
Now all of a sudden they figured out they could travel to the moon by going though the dream world? That's pretty darn convenient... unless Gensokyo's gals have been doing some research into alternative ways to reach the moon since then.

Eientei is on your side this time. Eirin probably told them how to do that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Aeteas on May 13, 2015, 11:23:21 am
Hmm. It seems like big fairies are worth a lot more than popcorn enemies when it comes to the shot down rate. I tested the end of stage 1 on easy mode. I killed the extra fairies and the spirits and left the 4 big fairies alone. I got like ~50% or so.

I wonder what the exact values are.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 13, 2015, 12:54:52 pm
The first 3 games, Touhou 6, 7, and 8 were major incidents. After that, Touhou 9 and on, there weren't major real incidents. I'm guessing this incident feels like the earlier games?

Eientei is on your side this time. Eirin probably told them how to do that.

Subterranean Animism and Double Dealing Character as well as Hopeless Masquerade and Mountain of Faith were also major incidents.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 13, 2015, 03:15:03 pm
Subterranean Animism and Double Dealing Character as well as Hopeless Masquerade and Mountain of Faith were also major incidents.

Mountain of faith wasn't an incident, the only reason Reimu/Marisa fights is because Sanae issued a challenge. Nothing really happened except the Moriyas showing up.

Eientei is on your side this time. Eirin probably told them how to do that.

Apparently (according to the ULiL thread) the Ultramarine Orb, also known as the Lunar Capital's Occult Ball, has the power to warp you to the moon. I'm guessing that's how they got there so easily.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 13, 2015, 03:48:40 pm
Apparently (according to the ULiL thread) the Ultramarine Orb, also known as the Lunar Capital's Occult Ball, has the power to warp you to the moon. I'm guessing that's how they got there so easily.

No-no,  Ultramarine Orb and Lunar Capital's Occult Ball are different things. the former being medicine Eirin gives to player characters, and the latter is a replaced occult ball with stronger power and unclear purpose (yet; we have to wait for full LLK release to find out).[/quote]
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on May 13, 2015, 05:44:24 pm
To answer the whole "why they're getting to the moon so easily" question, that's actually because they're making usage of a secret passage through the dream world used by moon rabbits to travel between Earth and the Moon, as Reisen mentions.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2015, 07:17:04 pm
No-no,  Ultramarine Orb and Lunar Capital's Occult Ball are different things. the former being medicine Eirin gives to player characters, and the latter is a replaced occult ball with stronger power and unclear purpose (yet; we have to wait for full LLK release to find out).

ULiL explains what the occult balls do in general, so it's pretty obvious that the Lunar Capital power stone would connect to the Lunar Capital, or break its barrier or something.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 13, 2015, 07:42:31 pm
ULiL explains what the occult balls do in general, so it's pretty obvious that the Lunar Capital power stone would connect to the Lunar Capital, or break its barrier or something.

ULiL also explains that Lunar Capital ball is special. Marisa even investigates it in LLK. May be (or even likely) there is much more to it then we can guess now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 14, 2015, 05:50:39 am
Quote
Subterranean Animism and Double Dealing Character as well as Hopeless Masquerade and Mountain of Faith were also major incidents.

No, not really. Subterranean Animism was going to end without issue anyway, even if Reimu and co. did not travel down to investigate. Orin caused a ruckus because she feared that the Oni would punish Okuu if Okuu is going to try something funny.

Nothing in Double Dealing Character was going to vastly affect humans. Their weapons went out of control for a bit. I don't see how that is a major incident.

Hopeless Masquerade, yes, that is a major incident. Since not fixing Kokoro means village is doomed.

Mountain of Faith is already mentioned.

Now, Urban Legend in Limbo, seems like it is scaling to be a major incident.

Edit: *Now, Urban Legend in Limbo, seems like it is scaling to be a major incident.
Wrong game name, it should be Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom, hopefully it was understood from context.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 14, 2015, 08:01:57 am
Nothing in Double Dealing Character was going to vastly affect humans. Their weapons went out of control for a bit. I don't see how that is a major incident.

Indeed, Akyuu didn't even notice it. Well, she noticed some tsukumogami but didn't realize it was anything more than that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: angels above me on May 14, 2015, 09:13:06 am
So about Ringo.

Ringo = Apple
Ringo's Theme = Pumpkin of September / September Pumpkin
Ringo's Ability = Growing in strength by eating Dango
Ringo's Title = The Orange Eagle Ravi

A lot of round food themes going with this one! And she only uses round bullets in her danmaku (IIRC).

Yeah I just thought that this was pretty funny. She'll probably be portrayed as a lazy glutton in the fandom.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Marron on May 14, 2015, 10:23:32 am
When I first saw "Ringo", i thought about her : http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141107014248/p__/protagonist/images/2/29/Character_Ringo_PuyoPuyoTetris.png
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 14, 2015, 12:52:01 pm
So about Ringo.

Ringo = Apple
Ringo's Theme = Pumpkin of September / September Pumpkin
Ringo's Ability = Growing in strength by eating Dango
Ringo's Title = The Orange Eagle Ravi

A lot of round food themes going with this one! And she only uses round bullets in her danmaku (IIRC).

Yeah I just thought that this was pretty funny. She'll probably be portrayed as a lazy glutton in the fandom.

Soooo....dango is to Ringo as spinach is to Popeye?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Unroyal Paladin on May 14, 2015, 01:24:01 pm
I don't know if this was mentioned here or not, but Reisen's bomb actually does have one certain time limit, and it is the end of the stage, as it doesn't seem to pass between stages.

Dem glitches though... the only one I encountered was the stage 2 boss hitbox glitch. I was really surprised when I looked up on the screen for a second, and there was a giant hitbox graphic there, I think it was on the boss. Either that or fixed place.

About the 'how did they find another way to get to the moon' question, I have another theory. Even though ZUN said to ignore PC98 stuff when talking about canon Gensokyo (Something like that) , the last times the 'Dream World' was mentioned in Touhou was SoEW stage 3 , and LLS stages 3 to 6 and its Extra stage. If anyone remembers what Yuuka says to Reimu in the final stage, that was something like 'In a few hours you'll become a mist of atoms' (I know, it's not really precise) , meaning that the dream world, by itself, is quite hazardous, at least to Humans. Probably it did exist, but it clearly wasn't the preferred method of getting to the moon.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 14, 2015, 01:32:05 pm
Back from the moonland it self, I finally got to actually try out LoLK for the first time after obtaining a copy. Installing from CD feels so weird these days :V

But only to discover getting my ass kicked by the game as it is noticeable harder on all difficulties. The sprites glitching so far I mostly noticed with Marisa when I did a quickplay with all four characters. I've seen the hitbox sprite too but this one obstructed my vision primarily a lot :V

[attach=1]

Edit Also the weird SFX suddenly happening in Stage 1 BGM I thought were hammer-swing sounds of Seiran. But listening to the BGM it self, it is being present. Feels bit off, haha but non the less, the Stage 1 BGM is super hyping again. I haven't felt this amount of power in a BGM since UFO. ZUN did a good job again in living up to his own interview about design.

Edit 2 considering it, could be intended by ZUN as she is carrying a mochi-pounding hammer. And Seiran appears exactly at the point where this "SFX" is heard.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Ruka on May 14, 2015, 01:41:38 pm
My first thought when I saw Doremy is that the overall design looks similar to a fan character made here. Anyone remember  (http://i.imgur.com/8R5lZWO.jpg)Mirai (http://i.imgur.com/yWJiu36.png)? Minus the dream catcher and tail of course.

In other news, Normal feels a little too hard for me...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Picochilla on May 14, 2015, 06:25:18 pm
Somebody Else who has Problems recording the Games replay with FRAPS? Whenever i get to the second Spirit spawn on Stage 2, the Record really likes to Stopmotion on my Computer (Win 7 /  6GB RAM)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Darkness1 on May 14, 2015, 06:49:59 pm
As seen earlier in this thread, the Dream World in LLS Extra does have a moon far in the background, but I'm not sure from pc98 if the Dream World is just huge or separated into different spaces, and since Mugetsu/Gengetsu apparently claimed to be masters of the realm, it may not be the same place as the one in LoLK.
If the current arc follows the same theme, I suppose only specific planes of the Dream World can lead to the moon. (Unless Doremy did state something different.)

Also, is it stated how Seiran's ability works?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 14, 2015, 08:13:19 pm
So guys, I just thought of a few things related to the full version. (all of them are speculations, of course)

>It's possible Seiran and Ringo could return later in the game. Maybe as midbosses on stage 4 or 5, but this time in their homeland (the Moon) instead of Gensokyo. Similar to how Nazrin reappears later in UFO.

>The backgrounds of the later stages could involve a scenery of peach trees (like on SSiB), and the Chinese looking Lunar Capital. We might even see that Lunar Sea as well. It could be the first time we'd see a sea appearing as stage background.

>Since this game is related to IN, I thought maybe we'd get dual final bosses again this time. Like how we got Final Boss A (Eirin) and Final Boss B (Kaguya) back then. It'd be really cool seeing this happen again if you ask me.

>Once the incident is over, I doubt the heroine will want to return to the moon on the Extra stage. So she could revisit the Dream World so the place would get more attention. Doremy could reappear as the EX midboss and the boss would be her stronger baku sister. She would have manipulation of nightmares as her ability as opposite to Doremy's manipulation of dreams.

...okay, I'll stop now. Sorry about the epileptic tree, it's just that those thoughts got in my mind and I wanted to share them. ^^;

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Achariyth on May 14, 2015, 08:43:05 pm
Given the Apollo 11 references in the first three stages (Eagle rabbits, a "moon base" by a lake, the Apollo Meridian = LEM Eagle, the landing at the Sea of Tranquility aka Tranquility Base, and the Apollo program), it wouldn't surprise me to see a Dove (CSM: Columbia) and a third Moon Rabbit (three astronauts in each Apollo mission) in the full version.  Yet I do have to wonder why the same people who remarked on the oddity of invoking a sun god to reach the moon would do the same to reach the Earth.  Anyway, I'm probably just as wrong as when I looked for music references with Doremy, but the guessing is fun..
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2015, 08:57:36 pm
>Since this game is related to IN, I thought maybe we'd get dual final bosses again this time. Like how we got Final Boss A (Eirin) and Final Boss B (Kaguya) back then. It'd be really cool seeing this happen again if you ask me.

I know this idea won't be popular with everyone, but I would totally love this.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sedrife on May 14, 2015, 09:28:55 pm
Put two and two together, you can see that ZUN likes to use "dream world" as a device that allows travel between the worlds, and this isn't the first time he clues it in.
Games:
1.  In TH2, Genmukai (幻夢界) was used as a passageway to connect between Gensokyo and Makai, with Reimaden (霊魔殿) stuck in between.
2. In TH4, Mugenkan (夢幻館) is believed to be reachable by a certain dream world passage beneath Lake of Blood.
3. In TH4 Extra, the battle takes place on a certain dream world, which is created and managed by Gengetsu and Mugetsu.
4. In TH14.5, Sumireko can travel to Gensokyo from Outside world through her dreams quite liberally.
5. In TH15, Dream World is used to travel between Gensokyo and Lunar Capital.

Books / CDs:
1. Rinnosuke visits Outside World by daydreaming into it, forced back by Yukari.
2. Merry enters assumably in Gensokyo through dreaming, but brings materials from her "dream" to her own world.
3. Dreaming is used as a route for both Merry and Renko to enter TORIFUNE, located somewhere in space.
 
With recent developments, I can't help but feel that those who "dream of Gensokyo" are seldomly the ones chosen to part with it.  Maybe some humans in Gensokyo are the ones who ends up sleeping eternally until their last moment, who knows.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ふねん1 on May 14, 2015, 10:11:18 pm
I finally decided to grind out Lunatic on Pointdevice Mode since I was sick of not wanting to spoil what Stages 2 and 3 looked like lol. I'm pretty impressed with the rest of the demo gameplay-wise. I'd actually say that the overall difficulty of each of the three stages is kind of close together, they each have harder and easier parts, with perhaps a slight increase over the course of the game, which is a promising trend. Granted, I've been burned before when it comes to wishing the second half of a Touhou game would get even harder (*cough*TD*cough*), so we'll see. The waypoint system still doesn't feel particularly helpful when it comes to practicing individual attacks since you want to be able to (close to) immediately retry what you just did that actually worked. Now that I think about it, it's arguably more reminiscent of how MoF through UFO gave you infinite continues but put you back at the beginning of the stage, essentially giving you a means to get to later parts of the game in the first place but without the rewards from getting a traditional 1cc. I do like how it puts much more of a hard cap on how many resources you can get throughout the game though, especially after what happened with DDC.

While we're on the topic of random speculations, anyone else notice how Ringo has three nonspells? Afaik that's never happened in an official Touhou game before. What if ZUN decided to give some of the later bosses (namely, Stage 5 and 6) more nonspells too, a la The Last Comer? I think that would actually help those boss battles flow a bit better, rather than having them use 3 or 4 Spell Cards in a row like they've been wont to do lately.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mero on May 14, 2015, 10:36:57 pm
>Since this game is related to IN, I thought maybe we'd get dual final bosses again this time. Like how we got Final Boss A (Eirin) and Final Boss B (Kaguya) back then. It'd be really cool seeing this happen again if you ask me.

Well, there are two game modes now, so it could happen, Like beat [Final Boss A] on Pointdevice to unlock [Final Boss B] on Legacy or vice versa

While we're on the topic of random speculations, anyone else notice how Ringo has three nonspells? Afaik that's never happened in an official Touhou game before. What if ZUN decided to give some of the later bosses (namely, Stage 5 and 6) more nonspells too, a la The Last Comer? I think that would actually help those boss battles flow a bit better, rather than having them use 3 or 4 Spell Cards in a row like they've been wont to do lately.

I knew something was off with Ringo's fight. Things really are different now, we haven't seen a double midboss since Orin, and on stage 1 of all places; and then we have Doremy with four spellcards by default, the only other stage 3 boss with that many is Alice (since Keine and Meiling vary with difficulty)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 15, 2015, 03:46:46 am
It's also strange that Ringo doesn't have a midboss spell.

By grazing the shit out of nonspells you get a bonus equal if not better than a capture, so more nonspell sounds totally plausible.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 15, 2015, 11:03:53 am
>Since this game is related to IN, I thought maybe we'd get dual final bosses again this time. Like how we got Final Boss A (Eirin) and Final Boss B (Kaguya) back then. It'd be really cool seeing this happen again if you ask me.
Before that, I wouldn't mind having two super-hard Stage 4 bosses again. Reimu and Sanae can fight Yorihime, their fellow shamaness; Marisa and Reisen can fight Toyohime (since that's how the four playable characters are grouped this time).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: BT on May 15, 2015, 12:54:13 pm
Tch, literally discovered this on Wednesday night when I watched ARF's Seiran video and went, 'Huh, this fangame really ripped off Kogasa', and then I noticed '15'. I guess I like ignoring threads with moonrunes in the title.

Since then I ragequit Pointsomething mode after it turned out I was stuck with no bombs on the third boss. With Marisa. Gosh, it forced me to figure out the first spell on my own, and then I couldn't get through the second nonspell for some reason and I gave up. Must have been the fatigue, since I managed it no problem today. Or Marisa. I also figured out the second spell. Those spells sure make you feel superplayer when you cheese them, since cheesing them is the desired method and all. :fail:

EDIT: Huh, but the '15' was from Jaimers' video. Whatever, a combination of the two then.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 15, 2015, 02:28:17 pm
I was thinking about pointdevice mode and Legacy mode in this game and I speculated something that would be wicked cool if it was implemented!

Seeing as how this incident is related to "purity" with the whole moon invasion and now that we have 2 game modes to play, imagine what this can be for the potential for a 1CC clear story-wise.

For example, you manage to 1CC the game on pointdevice mode... but because you have tainted yourself with the ultramarine orb medicine that Eirin gave you to achieve your 1CC, the stage 6 boss could say something like "you are unworthy to face me in my truest form, impure one" when you beat her and you get a normal happy ending.

Now, if you were to 1CC the game in Legacy mode in normal difficulty or above, you can prove to the one that is behind the moon invasion that you are a pure being just like they are that douse not need special medicine to stand up against the lunar defenses. Once you beat the regular stage 6 boss, the boss character will recognize your skill and/or "purity" and decide to unleash her "purest" form.

TRUE LAST BOSS!!!

It could be something like spiritual Larsa in Mushihime-sama Futari where you fight a beefed up version of the stage 6 character or another character entirely. Still, if your character beats the true last boss without continuing, you will get the true best ending that can be something really special.

Something like this would be groundbreaking and consistent with the increased difficulty of this game compared to the others. Someone like Jaimers would probably beat it like it was a pushover but to us normal people it would be a true test of our danmaku skills.

It would be fantastic if ZUN put in something like this... albeit very cruel and masochistic as well  :colonveeplusalpha:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on May 15, 2015, 05:07:42 pm
The fact that there are two game modes, and that it's a successor of Imperishable Night lore, does lend some credibility to the dual final boss idea. For the record, I'd personally love that.

If it were something as obvious as Chang'e, she's does have a husband called Houyi (with the first "Hou" written the same as in "Hourai"), who is an integral part of the Chang'e tale. The Watatsuki sisters are also a possibility, despite ZUN saying they're too OP for games at the time of Silent Sinner in Blue.

To be honest, I doubt it's either of those pairs, if it's gonna be a pair to begin with. They seem too obvious and deity-like. You didn't fight the Buddha in UFO, either, even if people could've guessed that based on the TH12 demo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 15, 2015, 05:21:19 pm
Damn, now from reading this thread I so want a TLB and/or dual boss. I do agree though that the fact that there's two modes opens up a lot of possibilities. Man, I really like how LoLK is pretty heavy story-wise. I'm excited.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 15, 2015, 05:21:57 pm
The Watatsuki sisters are also a possibility, despite ZUN saying they're too OP for games at the time of Silent Sinner in Blue.

This time the players are cheating though, with the elixir of foresight, so it might be possible.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ふねん1 on May 15, 2015, 07:03:01 pm
I still have great doubt that the Watatsuki sisters would work even with Pointdevice Mode. Afaik not too much was shown of what Toyohime could do, especially within the confines of the Spell Card rules, but the way Yorihime fought the heroines in SSiB was borderline circumventing the rules to begin with. ISC is probably the closest video game analogue to this, though it's the player that gets to break the rules in that game. The reason ZUN could get away with such a lopsided battle in a printed work like SSiB is because that battle wasn't even supposed to be the main conflict of the story. "Mental conflicts" are obviously perfectly viable in stories or story-based elements that you can't interact with directly. On the other hand, the nature of the Touhou video games as a medium pretty much requires that Spell Card battles, or some variation (i.e., how the side games experiment with mechanics), be the highlight of the user's interactions. Unless ZUN plans on introducing another new mechanic to get around the Watatsuki sisters effortlessly getting around the heroine's abilities, I have trouble seeing how the playable characters as they are now could feasibly tangle with that kind of boss. And no, Pointdevice Mode doesn't count. Pointdevice Mode is a "retry this attack you just died on until you clear it" mechanic, not a "bypass this attack completely" mechanic.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 15, 2015, 07:15:56 pm
There's nothing weird about how Yorihime fights, she just spams bombs all the way through. Think of her as the player character going through a boss rush.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: angels above me on May 15, 2015, 08:22:32 pm
I'm not personally keen on the idea of a Yorihime/Toyohime boss fight. Because at this point it would be pretty obvious, and in the end it's one or two less new touhous. Sure we have plenty of touhous already, but still.

Plus, if Toyo and Yori were present, I think Yukari would be too.

I personally hope that the plot won't be as simple as '' defeat buns, travel to moon via dream werld, fight uberhoes in the moon! ''
I'm also hoping for a Kaguya/Eirin cameo in the game! Though the chances of that happening are like, 0.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 15, 2015, 08:27:25 pm
I'm also hoping for a Kaguya/Eirin cameo in the game! Though the chances of that happening are like, 0.

They already play a very important part in the prologue. It's very much possible that they'll appear in endings. Especially Reisen's.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 15, 2015, 08:35:51 pm
I'm also hoping for a Kaguya/Eirin cameo in the game! Though the chances of that happening are like, 0.
I kinda want to see the OTHER Reisen in there. Some characters needs more love (not sure about a ZUNart of her, though  :ohdear:)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 15, 2015, 08:38:36 pm
I'm not personally keen on the idea of a Yorihime/Toyohime boss fight. Because at this point it would be pretty obvious, and in the end it's one or two less new touhous. Sure we have plenty of touhous already, but still.

It is vitally important that all characters eventually show up in a game so we can get proper spellcards and individual theme songs.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 15, 2015, 08:41:54 pm
It is vitally important that all characters eventually show up in a game so we can get proper spellcards and individual theme songs.

Just to be that guy, the Watatsukis already have a theme song "Watatsuki's Spellcard ~ Lunatic Blue". You could say they should both get their own theme, but the Prismrivers and the Tsukumos didn't.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 15, 2015, 08:47:07 pm
Unless ZUN plans on introducing another new mechanic to get around the Watatsuki sisters effortlessly getting around the heroine's abilities, I have trouble seeing how the playable characters as they are now could feasibly tangle with that kind of boss.
Not only that. Story-wise, the enemies (from the moon at least) aren't really using spell cards to begin with. Despite Seiran and Ringo both using named attacks that "resemble spell cards", it's clear that they are on Earth to purify (kill) everything in their path, not fooling around. The attacks do have SC-like names only to give us a way to remember them (i think Sumireko is in the same situation), and the player is still able to dodge them because ZUN can't put enemies with game-breaking attacks.
Counting also that the second half of the game is certainly set on the Moon, where SC rules don't even exist (and even if they existed, the lunarians wouldn't let earthlings pass anyway, like Yorihime said in SSiB), there would be no way to limit the Watatsuki's abilities.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 15, 2015, 08:49:09 pm
Just to be that guy, the Watatsukis already have a theme song "Watatsuki's Spellcard ~ Lunatic Blue". You could say they should both get their own theme, but the Prismrivers and the Tsukumos didn't.
Hmm, dunno, "Watatsuki's Spellcard ~ Lunatic  Blue" seems to be what "Strange Bird of the Moon, Illusion of Mysterious Cat" is for Renko and Merry. Seems more like a theme that fits the battle against Yorihime instead of an actual character theme to me, an individual theme would be most welcome for individuality's sake. The prismrivers and the Tsukumos may have a bit of personnalitey on their own but are not especially outstanding, so a more general theme seems about right for them, but the Watatsuki sisters DO have things going for them, be it different ability or distinct personnality. Opinion anyway.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 15, 2015, 09:16:55 pm
Yorihime/Toyohime aren't going to be characters that we fight against in this game, main game or extra. A supposed "madman" is behind the incident on the moon so I call it that it's an entirely new character. Yorihime/Toyohime will most likely congratulate the heroine in their endings for helping overthrow the revolution on the moon and the madman will probably get banished to Gensokyo or something.

Could this incident be the uprising that the moon rabbit's were talking about in SSiB maybe? I forget if that was Yukari or if that was left ambiguous.

Yorihime/Toyohime might be attacking Gensokyo finally for Yukari drinking their age old sake  :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on May 15, 2015, 09:34:01 pm
The uprising that was being mentioned in SSiB I thought was the rumors that Eirin spread purposefully, or something.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 15, 2015, 09:37:53 pm
Yorihime/Toyohime aren't going to be characters that we fight against in this game, main game or extra. A supposed "madman" is behind the incident on the moon so I call it that it's an entirely new character. Yorihime/Toyohime will most likely congratulate the heroine in their endings for helping overthrow the revolution on the moon and the madman will probably get banished to Gensokyo or something.

Well, if they do show up, which ultimately I believe is unlikely, it would almost certainly be in Extra. And Extra, by definition, has nothing to do with the plot of the game. So you can't use the plot as an argument against them showing up in Extra.

The uprising that was being mentioned in SSiB I thought was the rumors that Eirin spread purposefully, or something.

Yes, that was part of Eirin's plan. She asked Reisen to ask the other rabbits about the rumors of the uprising, which created rumors of an uprising because that's how rumors work.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ILikeBulletZ on May 16, 2015, 12:37:25 am
So who is your preferred shottype in this game, people?


I tried Reisen and TBH I did not quite liked her shot. The bombs seem usefull until you realize they make your hitbox big as hell...


Tried Sanae and I found her shot pretty cool and usefull... it makes certain stage sections really simple. Good bomb, as always.


Haven't bothered with Reimu/Marisa because quite honestly they are probably just the same as always... pretty boring...lol.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Spencer on May 16, 2015, 12:42:00 am
Does anyone else get the feeling Kaguya is gonna be in this game?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 16, 2015, 12:45:26 am
Sanae is probably the best shot. She's the only one with homing while focused, which is important when the patterns are so dense force you to move around, and she's got the best spread shot while unfocused too.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 16, 2015, 01:07:06 am
So who is your preferred shottype in this game, people?


I tried Reisen and TBH I did not quite liked her shot. The bombs seem usefull until you realize they make your hitbox big as hell...


Tried Sanae and I found her shot pretty cool and usefull... it makes certain stage sections really simple. Good bomb, as always.


Haven't bothered with Reimu/Marisa because quite honestly they are probably just the same as always... pretty boring...lol.

About Reimu and Marisa, Homing Talisman, Exorcism Needle, Illusion Laser and Magic Napalm are getting really old, Zun should make another shot type for both of them for Touhou 16.

Sanae is great for point accumulation as well, since she can beat enemy's in certain sections namely a part in stage 2 and 3 where they appear from the top of the screen, also her Spellcard, is the only one who allows grazing while active.

 Reisen i think is more the risk-reward type specially when it comes to scoring.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 16, 2015, 01:13:48 am
If it were something as obvious as Chang'e, she's does have a husband called Houyi (with the first "Hou" written the same as in "Hourai"), who is an integral part of the Chang'e tale.
Not really. "Houyi" is a transliteration of mandarin Chinese. The name is written 后羿, or simply 羿 (后 basically means "lord" here, and would later become the word for "queen"). "Hourai" is a transliteration of modern Japanese 蓬莱, which would be "Penglai" in mandarin.

Now if we are on this topic, another famous Chinese legend tells us about Wu Gang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Gang), a man receives a Sisyphean divine punishment: forever cutting down a self-healing osmanthus tree in the moon. Japanese folklore has adopted him as "Katsura-Otoko", the katsura tree-cutting man.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ChronaSE on May 16, 2015, 03:56:59 am
I was thinking of something that could have been fun. I think a team gameplay like in Imperishable Night could have fit this game perfectly. To further elaborate, lets say you get to play as Reimu, Sanae, Marisa and Reisen at the same time in which you could switch characters and their shoot-types similar on how Marisa-Patchouli worked on SA, as they all get to interact during boss fights. Or perhaps a gimmick similar to Marine benefit extra stage in which the protagonists came to aid you on the last spell.

To be honest, since this is a major incident and your life is at danger, it doesn't feel right for them to solve it individually.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: angels above me on May 16, 2015, 08:10:31 am
I was thinking of something that could have been fun. I think a team gameplay like in Imperishable Night could have fit this game perfectly. To further elaborate, lets say you get to play as Reimu, Sanae, Marisa and Reisen at the same time in which you could switch characters and their shoot-types similar on how Marisa-Patchouli worked on SA, as they all get to interact during boss fights. Or perhaps a gimmick similar to Marine benefit extra stage in which the protagonists came to aid you on the last spell.

To be honest, since this is a major incident and your life is at danger, it doesn't feel right for them to solve it individually.

Agreed. Though maybe the plot won't be as '' obvious '' as it seems to be and will take a goofy/unexpected turn in the end, but I doubt it.

Anyway, I'm super satisfied with the music at the moment. The stage themes seem to overshadow the boss themes a little though, but that's fine! And it's pretty sweet if you let the title theme build up, it sounds like an stage 6 boss theme!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Picochilla on May 16, 2015, 08:24:30 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYeu2DZLkC0
So i found a bombless Grazing thing on the first Mid-Boss phase of Seiran on Normal. Probaly not the best for Scoring or maybe still a bit too careful made.
Still a bit under investigation.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 16, 2015, 08:27:12 am
Quote
For example, you manage to 1CC the game on pointdevice mode... but because you have tainted yourself with the ultramarine orb medicine that Eirin gave you to achieve your 1CC, the stage 6 boss could say something like "you are unworthy to face me in my truest form, impure one" when you beat her and you get a normal happy ending.

You suggestion would only make sense if it isn't a 1 Credit Continue. Getting hit even once is considered a flaw. That is the whole reason why you have the Point Device mode, so you can beat the game without getting hit once.

Quote
Now, if you were to 1CC the game in Legacy mode in normal difficulty or above, you can prove to the one that is behind the moon invasion that you are a pure being just like they are that douse not need special medicine to stand up against the lunar defenses. Once you beat the regular stage 6 boss, the boss character will recognize your skill and/or "purity" and decide to unleash her "purest" form.

In order to do what you suggest, the player would have to beat the game without getting hit once. Such a mode for an extra ending seems pretty hardcore.

Quote
To be honest, I doubt it's either of those pairs, if it's gonna be a pair to begin with. They seem too obvious and deity-like. You didn't fight the Buddha in UFO, either, even if people could've guessed that based on the TH12 demo.

But you fought a god of the highest tier (Eirin), whose students were Yorihime and Toyohime. So, there is already precedence.

Quote
Yorihime/Toyohime aren't going to be characters that we fight against in this game, main game or extra.

As Clarste has mentioned, extra is unrelated to the plot, so it wouldn't matter.

That said, they could also be a candidate for stage 4.

Ultimately, it is unlikely for these two to be fighting the protagonists, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Quote
To be honest, since this is a major incident and your life is at danger, it doesn't feel right for them to solve it individually.

They are using the Point Device, so that argument is invalid. It is still possible that they are solving it together.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: DgBarca on May 16, 2015, 08:54:46 am
Hum do you guys realize that the first three stages are literally the same "kind of places" as the first three stages of Lotus Land Story (moutain/lake/dreamworld) ? That might explain why so many people get so PC-87 vibes. That plus the fast danmaku and such.
Plus in stage 2 the "moon beams" are like checkerboard (but they get distorted) you know what else is checkerboard ? YUUKA'S STUFF !
Youkai in pyjamas ? SUNFLOWERS ?!
ON THE MOON !?
MOONFLOWERS !

This game is hard.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 16, 2015, 10:50:17 am
Actually i hope seeing Last Words returning at least for the final boss. It would be cool for us to get 2 final bosses. But about Yorihime, as you guys know she is the captain of the Lunar Defense Corps.

Reimu and the others, are going to the moon, what happened last time they went to the moon, Yorihime showed up along with the Lunar Defense Corps, so the possibility of Yorihime and Toyohime, in my opinion exists and in my opinion they will appear in extra or stage 5.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 16, 2015, 01:08:48 pm
Watatsukis as stage 4 bosses actually can make sense. They'd get in heroines' way when they reach the moon because they have to, but they won't fight full-power because they also have a conflict with whoever is the final boss. Just think Aya in MoF.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 16, 2015, 02:46:22 pm
They'd get in heroines' way when they reach the moon because they have to, but they won't fight full-power because they also have a conflict with whoever is the final boss. Just think Aya in MoF.

Actually, two out of three bosses already don't fight full-power: Ringo doesn't want Earth to be purified and Doremy just puts a token resistance to show that she is doing her job.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 16, 2015, 02:51:13 pm
Actually, two out of three bosses already don't fight full-power: Ringo doesn't want Earth to be purified and Doremy just puts a token resistance to show that she is doing her job.

Seiran was (apparently) caught off guard, she was in the middle of punding mochi and wasn't prepared for fighting.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 16, 2015, 02:53:36 pm
Watatsukis as stage 4 bosses actually can make sense. They'd get in heroines' way when they reach the moon because they have to, but they won't fight full-power because they also have a conflict with whoever is the final boss. Just think Aya in MoF.
I was thinking the same exact thing.
Still, if they were to "lose" against some earthlings that were already easily defeated before, the other lunarians would stop trusting them for good. Particularly, Toyohime's ability can easily send everyone back on Earth without even starting a fight (at least until the full moon passes), and everyone knows that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: AxiamWolfe on May 16, 2015, 03:33:52 pm
Something that I noticed and someone else did mention but was overlooked:

When you graze bullets, and then keep them within that aura (which slows item fall speed) for a couple of seconds, the bullets drop more green point items. Anyone found a point to that yet? It's not like the ones from clearing the screen of bosses' bullets; these don't increase the item point value. Is it a seemingly pointless minor scoring mechanic?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on May 16, 2015, 03:55:36 pm
Something that I noticed and someone else did mention but was overlooked:

When you graze bullets, and then keep them within that aura (which slows item fall speed) for a couple of seconds, the bullets drop more green point items. Anyone found a point to that yet? It's not like the ones from clearing the screen of bosses' bullets; these don't increase the item point value. Is it a seemingly pointless minor scoring mechanic?
They add more graze.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ふねん1 on May 16, 2015, 04:00:59 pm
Something that I noticed and someone else did mention but was overlooked:

When you graze bullets, and then keep them within that aura (which slows item fall speed) for a couple of seconds, the bullets drop more green point items. Anyone found a point to that yet? It's not like the ones from clearing the screen of bosses' bullets; these don't increase the item point value. Is it a seemingly pointless minor scoring mechanic?
Each of those green point items gotten from hugging a bullet long enough increases your graze by 5. Since you're given a bonus to your PIV at the end of every chapter based on how high your graze is, these green items end up indirectly increasing your PIV, so they're far from pointless.

Back on-topic, I think I'm now addicted to the Stage 3 theme in this game. I just can't stop listening to it, whether during work or play. What's everyone else's favorite song from the demo?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 16, 2015, 04:17:04 pm
Back on-topic, I think I'm now addicted to the Stage 3 theme in this game. I just can't stop listening to it, whether during work or play. What's everyone else's favorite song from the demo?

Eternal Spring Dream. One of the best stage 3 boss themes, if not the best. Pumpkin of September is good too)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Piranha on May 16, 2015, 04:45:27 pm
Back on-topic, I think I'm now addicted to the Stage 3 theme in this game. I just can't stop listening to it, whether during work or play. What's everyone else's favorite song from the demo?

It's the same for me, every time I hear it, I like it more and more. It is melancholic, intense and just plain beautiful, and feels more like a stage 4 or 5 theme, tbh. And dat piano solo, hnnnngh!

Eternal Spring Dream too, I like it for its tempo and the chiptunes in the background. Also ZUNPETS :derp:
Though I can't shake the feeling I heard the main melody somewhere else (maybe the music cd's?).

Pumpkin of September is also pretty interesting, almost as good as Parsee's theme.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ChronaSE on May 16, 2015, 04:58:50 pm
Yes, stage 3 is amazing, that piano solo was inspired by moonlight sonata right?

Pumpkin of september feels really short though, it has only two main melodies and after that it loops. I guess it's still good for a short stage 2 boss.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 16, 2015, 05:13:39 pm
Eternal Spring Dream. One of the best stage 3 boss themes, if not the best. Pumpkin of September is good too)
Same here, the "putuputuputu" plus the weird, lazy but dreamy feel make it quite interesting. Stage 3 Bosses who have the misfortune of not being named Keine or Nitori and a few more doesn't get their themes arranged very often, but the new themes at the very least will get one at the next comiket, I'd like to hear how the circles'll do this ; and Pumpkin of September kinda remind or give the feel "Cinderella cage ~ kagome kagome" have, and it was a bit unexpected considering how rowdy Ringo looks like

Though I can't shake the feeling I heard the main melody somewhere else (maybe the music cd's?).
This is exactly what I thought about when I first heard it. It totally sounds like Wind of Agartha from neo-traditionalism of Japan (the main melody, that is), and the stage 1 song (not the boss theme) seems to use some of the instruments ZUN used for Trojan Green Asteroid (my impression, at least). ZUN is going wild there, makes me wonder what the rest of the songs'll sound like  :3
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: angels above me on May 16, 2015, 05:30:09 pm
Stage 2 theme > Stage 1 theme > everything else. Just super good OST all around.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 16, 2015, 05:30:50 pm
I'm looking forward to the doujin music circles arranges of LoLK's music. There isn't much yet but I'm sure we will get a flood of great music inspired by this game.

Eternal Spring Dream I agree is a beautiful piece of music... simple yet catchy... in typical ZUN style. I fell in love with it as soon as I heard it for the first time. I'm glad that ZUN isn't loosing his touch after so many years dedicated to this series. But hey, it would be pretty tough to loose your edge when he literally makes the music first then shapes the game around the music.

It makes me wonder sometimes how many music pieces he composes when planning a game and how many he may decide to scrap for certain reasons. Imagine what ZUN *hasn't* released to us that he keeps on his office computer or what he may have decided to scrap altogether. I really wish that ZUN would release another music album again... I kinda miss those.

Seriously, ZUN's music is such an inspiration to me that I am tempted to learn piano just so I can replay his music. He is an under appreciated musical virtuoso!   
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 16, 2015, 05:35:37 pm
What's everyone else's favorite song from the demo?
Stage 2 was the most memorable one for me because that part right at the midboss is space as fuck. Stage 3 quickly became my series favorite. My reactions to each boss songs consisted of both "nice" and "what the fuck are you doing" but they're serviceable. I'm just unable to remember the first stage (stage, not boss) for some reason.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: angels above me on May 16, 2015, 05:50:51 pm
Stage 2 was the most memorable one for me because that part right at the midboss is space as fuck. Stage 3 quickly became my series favorite. My reactions to each boss songs consisted of both "nice" and "what the fuck are you doing" but they're serviceable. I'm just unable to remember the first stage (stage, not boss) for some reason.
EEHHHH that is one of the most memorable songs though. It's definitely the next '' Night Sakura of Dead Spirits '' to me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 16, 2015, 06:04:00 pm
What's everyone else's favorite song from the demo?

The ones I listen to mostly are Stage 2 and Doremy's theme, so I guess they're my favorites. The other songs are nice too, but not as memorable imo.

I really love the atmosphere of Stage 2 theme, it gives me a feeling of "Oh shit, Gensokyo is being messed around by aliens!" - and for some reason I think Doremy's theme suits her. It gives me the impression I'm really fighting a powerful and hard boss.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 16, 2015, 06:04:46 pm
Each of those green point items gotten from hugging a bullet long enough increases your graze by 5. Since you're given a bonus to your PIV at the end of every chapter based on how high your graze is, these green items end up indirectly increasing your PIV, so they're far from pointless.

Back on-topic, I think I'm now addicted to the Stage 3 theme in this game. I just can't stop listening to it, whether during work or play. What's everyone else's favorite song from the demo?

I love every single theme in this game, but by far the bests are the stage themes, and Seiren and Doremy's themes
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 16, 2015, 06:13:47 pm
Player data -> Spell history. Is anyone else's No.2 showing 0/0?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mikuru on May 16, 2015, 09:12:30 pm
Back on-topic, I think I'm now addicted to the Stage 3 theme in this game. I just can't stop listening to it, whether during work or play. What's everyone else's favorite song from the demo?
September Pumpkin. So much love. So much awesome.

Stage 3 theme would be my second favourite, but it's a distant second.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Quukii on May 16, 2015, 09:51:09 pm
Player data -> Spell history. Is anyone else's No.2 showing 0/0?
Yeah, I'm getting that too.

Regarding the music, the soundtrack seems overall very good. I think all of the stage themes are excellent, and the boss themes are quite good too (I like Doremy's theme a bit less than the rest of the songs though). I'm really liking ZUN's music style for this game so far much more than that of the previous two main series games, TD and DDC.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 16, 2015, 10:00:41 pm
I'm really liking ZUN's music style for this game so far much more than that of the previous two main series games, TD and DDC.

Same here. For the first time in a while I feel like ZUN's songs are sounding more ZUN-ish. (I can't explain...) :ohdear:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 16, 2015, 10:25:10 pm
Same here. For the first time in a while I feel like ZUN's songs are sounding more ZUN-ish. (I can't explain...)  :ohdear:

I also feel a little bit nostalgic whenever i listen to the soundtrack, the music sounds like a mix of PC-98 and Modern Touhou.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ILikeBulletZ on May 17, 2015, 12:09:16 am
Stage 3 is simply epic.

I love its music, its danmaku overall, (Nearly) all the boss spellcards, its easily my favorite Stage 3 in the series.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 17, 2015, 04:35:54 am
I was thinking the same exact thing.
Still, if they were to "lose" against some earthlings that were already easily defeated before, the other lunarians would stop trusting them for good. Particularly, Toyohime's ability can easily send everyone back on Earth without even starting a fight (at least until the full moon passes), and everyone knows that.

Why would the Lunarians know how difficult of a time Yorihime had? The rabbits all clearly saw that Yorihime got beat up, even though she won at the end.

Also, some flawed reasoning here. This is based on the assumption that her ability will automatically "hit" the target and send them back with no resistance from the victim.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: XxYakogoro on May 17, 2015, 04:57:18 am
Seiran was (apparently) caught off guard, she was in the middle of punding mochi and wasn't prepared for fighting.

Possible comeback as mid-boss for later stages?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 17, 2015, 09:36:11 am
Possible comeback as mid-boss for later stages?

Unlikely, she's just a rank-and-file soldier without a hint of importance. There can be OTHER moon rabbits ahead, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 17, 2015, 11:35:33 am
Why would the Lunarians know how difficult of a time Yorihime had? The rabbits all clearly saw that Yorihime got beat up, even though she won at the end.

Also, some flawed reasoning here. This is based on the assumption that her ability will automatically "hit" the target and send them back with no resistance from the victim.
The rabbits also saw how she neutralized all of Marisa's and Sakuya's attacks with little or even no effort. It's true that Remilia managed to actually hit her, but she was playing defensive and won with a single move when she decided to counterattack. Even when fighting Reimu, her only problem was blocking the cursed ofuda from touching the ground, not resisting Reimu's attacks.
As for Toyohime, it seems to me that her ability of connecting places is pretty much absolute,  like Yukari gapping something/someone, or Komachi making impossible to move by contracting space.
Of course, if i'm wrong it is all another matter :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mr Jovial on May 17, 2015, 12:05:17 pm
Gave the game a try on lunatic pontdevice mode. 271 retries to clear and 1 accidental bomb. Had to look at Jaimers' 1cc for strats in places though. Can see what everyone means with the difficulty and music though. I do think the difficulty should be toned down but I definitely wouldn't object to a 5th difficulty above lunatic, that is as hard as what lunatic currently is.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Soul Devour on May 17, 2015, 12:29:51 pm
Eh, after how easy the Lunatics were in TD and DDC were I actually appreciate the increase in difficulty. Gives you something to keep working towards, you know? I also feel like lowering the difficulty would go against PointDevice mode, which looks to be there because of the difficulty.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 17, 2015, 03:42:05 pm
Hey guys, in case anybody hasn't noticed yet the Touhou patch center apparently has a thcrap English translation for the trial version now. By that I mean there is a little American and British flag next to its entry on the front page.

Has anybody experimented or played around with that yet? If so, what are your thoughts on the accuracy and quality of the translation job?   
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 17, 2015, 05:33:19 pm
Hey guys, in case anybody hasn't noticed yet the Touhou patch center apparently has a thcrap English translation for the trial version now. By that I mean there is a little American and British flag next to its entry on the front page.

Has anybody experimented or played around with that yet? If so, what are your thoughts on the accuracy and quality of the translation job?
Going from Sanae's story, all the dialogue (and only the dialogue) has been translated, it seems like. There's a line after Doremy that's untranslated, but AFAIK, that's it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on May 17, 2015, 08:41:48 pm
Why would the Lunarians know how difficult of a time Yorihime had? The rabbits all clearly saw that Yorihime got beat up, even though she won at the end.

Also, some flawed reasoning here. This is based on the assumption that her ability will automatically "hit" the target and send them back with no resistance from the victim.

They're the leaders of the defense force. The idea of letting a human past would just make things worse for them and might even threaten their positions,
however if they were "distracted" with what I assume is mutiny on the moon then nobody would pay attention.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 17, 2015, 10:31:18 pm
Quote
It's true that Remilia managed to actually hit her, but she was playing defensive and won with a single move when she decided to counterattack. Even when fighting Reimu, her only problem was blocking the cursed ofuda from touching the ground, not resisting Reimu's attacks.

Why would the rabbits, who would be the ones who could possibly tell this to the Lunarians be able tell how easy of a time Yorihime had.
It doesn't really matter how effortlessly she defeated the first two, the rabbits expected that.
They also never expected Yorihime to get knocked down and yet she did. So, the question remains, why would the Lunarians know how easy that fight was for Yorihime?

Quote
As for Toyohime, it seems to me that her ability of connecting places is pretty much absolute,  like Yukari gapping something/someone, or Komachi making impossible to move by contracting space.
Of course, if i'm wrong it is all another matter :V

You mean like how Reimu can effortlessly throw/spawn tons of amulets? Since the act of using a skill and the act of trying to hit someone with the skill are different things.
How would you know Yukari's gapping abilities always tags the target? Same deal with Komachi's ability?
These kind of reasonings assumes the victim has no way to avoid it.

Quote
They're the leaders of the defense force. The idea of letting a human past would just make things worse for them and might even threaten their positions,
however if they were "distracted" with what I assume is mutiny on the moon then nobody would pay attention.

It might, yes. I am still unsure why this would make them not a candidate for being either stage 4 or ex boss.

Stage 5 is not too likely, since stage 5 boss is friendly with stage 6 boss.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plastic Vortex on May 18, 2015, 12:39:09 am
 Eternal Spring Dream chiptune mix thing.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMkMY59ut6U). Before anyone asks, I DO NOT CLAIM THIS AS MINE.

I think this is the first remix/arrange of LoLK's soundtrack on Youtube. Didn't bother checking Nico.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 18, 2015, 02:10:30 am
^ HertzDevil delivers again. Sounds really great! :3
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 18, 2015, 08:58:13 am
Quote
Going from Sanae's story, all the dialogue (and only the dialogue) has been translated, it seems like. There's a line after Doremy that's untranslated, but AFAIK, that's it.

So, no music room ZUN comments? No manual? No spell card names? No music theme names in the bottom right hand corner when a new theme plays? No difficulty page and character select descriptions?

"Languages with >95% coverage" my ass Touhou patch center! Nameless Legacy and his goons had one simple job to do and since they are so obsessed with speed of translation, they cant even do that right. We want quality translation work, not rushed hack jobs... like a Call of Duty yearly installment.

You took on the responsibility of patching the games over stand alone patches to try and improve the process... This is not an improvement. Get back to work Touhou patch center, your job isn't done yet!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 18, 2015, 10:36:30 am
You do realize that the demo would never have been translated at all normally, right? I'm sure you're just trying to defend the honor of... someone, but your attitude is pretty disrespectful to all translators, including the ones who you're trying to defend (who, it should be noted, could totally keep making hard patches if they really wanted to, so apparently they don't). And the whole fricking point of the patch center thing is that it uses wiki-based translations so it's in constant flux, so complaining about it not being perfect immediately is literally meaningless.

I have no idea what happened to cause all this drama, but as a translator myself who just stepped up because no one else would (despite my lack of qualifications), I feel like nothing could possibly justify the level of vitriol you're displaying. If you don't like it, do it yourself. Even someone who doesn't know Japanese or how to program can still go to the wiki and edit for better English wording. You can help out with this, but you won't, because you're an entitled bastard who wants everyone else to do the work for you, for free. And even when they release work-in-progress samples a week after the game comes out, you do nothing but complain. Frankly, you disgust me, although I guess you could probably tell from the rest of this post. As someone with no attachment to either side of this drama, you disgust me.

Edit: Sorry, to everyone else.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 18, 2015, 10:56:11 am
No, you're right. HalfGrand, seriously, fuck right off dude. You don't have to be for or against thpatch or whatever to acknowledge you're being a total bag of dicks.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 18, 2015, 11:06:55 am
snip

A community contributor listed the game as being >95% translated by mistake. That was a very minor mistake (it doesn't affect anything) that anyone could have fixed. So basically you're being a huge ass over absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on May 18, 2015, 11:37:29 am
(who, it should be noted, could totally keep making hard patches if they really wanted to, so apparently they don't)
On a side note, if there's one single thing I could hold against thcrap's existence, it's this.
I appreciate the effort (and even made some Polish translations for it), but since the existence of thcrap made people behind the hard patches give up and forced people to rely on it, it would be a huge boon to the community if thcrap gave us some way to create a hard patch from their translations - be it for ease of installation, less portability issues or issues of compatibility with the Playism versions.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 18, 2015, 11:57:36 am
Is that Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata in the stage 3 theme that I hear?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 18, 2015, 12:07:44 pm
HalfGrand, by now I think everyone's familiar with your strong opinions about thcrap. Feel free to give it a rest.

On topic, I'm more inclined towards hard patches myself for the click-click-done one time ease of use, but as Clarste pointed out, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from making one. I'd welcome it, but I'm also OK with using thcrap at this point, too. Myself, I'm going to wait for the full release of LoLK before patching though. Makes it feel like Christmas!

Is that Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata in the stage 3 theme that I hear?

A lot of people have been saying this, and I honestly do not hear it. I mean, beyond there being a triad played on piano for a few seconds.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 18, 2015, 12:14:21 pm
The game shortcuts thcrap creates function pretty much the same as a hard patched game exe to the end user. It's not like you have to update the translations every time you run the game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 18, 2015, 12:25:43 pm
It's not like you have to update the translations every time you run the game.

I know that. I really don't want to derail this into why I prefer hard patches, but just for the sake of an example: I have all my games in one directory. Some of them I don't want patched with thcrap; others, I have to. For whatever reason, adding a new game to the directory means I have to repatch all the games with thcrap, otherwise just this new game gets patched and the others turn up an error message. Same deal if I have to move the games to a new location, such as an external HDD, as thcrap relies on shortcuts. This isn't a problem I'd encounter with a hard patch. OTOH, this stuff might be happening because of something I'm not getting about the way thcrap works, but again, it's not something I'd even have to think about with a hard patch.

I want to emphasise that I am not complaining about thcrap here. I am 99% fine with these patches, and these examples are minor quibbles at best. I realize and appreciate the work that goes into making them. But I think it's OK for people to have their personal preferences while still being totally fine with thcrap overall.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 18, 2015, 12:37:11 pm
A lot of people have been saying this, and I honestly do not hear it. I mean, beyond there being a triad played on piano for a few seconds.

The triad and the chord progressions are incredibly similar to that of the Moonlight Sonata 1st Movement (more specifically, the very beginning of the 1st Movement). The atmosphere of the music doesn't help, either.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Gamer251 on May 18, 2015, 12:38:18 pm
Uhh, HalfGrand, brliron's working on the th15 compatibility on thcrap.
He's pretty much one of the "goons" you're talking about.
Seriously, you expect EVERYTHING to be immediately translated and put into the game?
It's not easy editing all the pictures and make them clean and beautiful.
Of course, you have to work on dumping data and stuff, which brliron has been working hard to do the past few days.

tl;dr, it ain't instant, so please kindly shut up and wait.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 18, 2015, 12:39:38 pm
The triad and the chord progressions are incredibly similar to that of the Moonlight Sonata 1st Movement (more specifically, the very beginning of the 1st Movement). The atmosphere of the music doesn't help, either.

I'm familiar with the piece, trust me. I just don't hear it beyond some vague similarity. I would love to see someone do a side-by-side notation/chord comparison though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on May 18, 2015, 01:11:15 pm
The game shortcuts thcrap creates function pretty much the same as a hard patched game exe to the end user. It's not like you have to update the translations every time you run the game.
On the surface, yes it does. But I've heard my fair share of local vitrol about thcrap, ranging from complicated installation to not working on certain people's computers to being unnecessary bloatware to ugly-looking fonts to problems with portability and the necessity of reinstalling thcrap after copying the games to another PC (on top of ZUN's own portability problems), to lack of compatibility with other modifications such as vpatch to lack of compatibility with the Playism versions to huge chunks of ISC menus being untranslated months after release to it's existence killing the hard patch initiative. I'm pretty sure a huge portion of the fanbase would gladly give up the self-updating aspect just to have an actual hard patch, be it from a separate source or created with the use of some tool that would allow to convert thcrap into one.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 18, 2015, 01:30:02 pm
Well, I didn't expect such a strong reaction to my last post. Apparently, for me giving my honest opinion about a funneling technique that Nameless Legacy made to give himself power over the Touhou Community, I have been met with distaste from the community. But apparently, a man(?) who deliberately called his automatic patcher Thcrap because he "thought it would be a funny contrast to have a well-made piece of software with a name showing the developer's actual distaste for the subject matter" is apparently being accepted more and more by the community. How would ZUN feel if he knew that translation efforts by the english speaking community were being placed under the banner of "crap"? If I was a content creator like ZUN, I would find that pretty darn disrespectful.

For the record, I absolutely love all translators who work on anything to do with translating Touhou and helping it be brought to more cultures around the world. If people here felt that I was being insulting to translators who worked on stand along patches or the ones that go into thcrap (ugh! I hate even typing thcrap) then know that that was not my intention at all and that I apologies for misleading people into thinking that.

My point in short: Touhou patch center promised that "translation patches will match fan art speed". So far, they have failed. I'm not pointing this at the translators who contribute to Touhou patch center, Hakurei god bless them, I'm pointing at Nameless Legacy, his staff and his system he created.

But still, as of me writing this post, Touhou patch center took down the little English/American flags next to LoLK under "Languages with >95% coverage". I'm glad to see that perhaps my writings are prompting people to take necessary actions.

Quote
If you don't like it, do it yourself

I would **LOVE** to buddy, seriously, I would love to bring out a high quality, Japanese to English accurate, fan community loving and supported English patch. Some problems though:

*I don't know a lick of Japanese
*Writing scripts and codes for things is hard as hell to me. My coding assignments in high school computing needed some serious tutoring from my computing teacher since I couldn't figure heads or tails of anything.
*Hacking? Where do you learn that?
*I'm no expert on Japanese mythology

The best thing I can do is throw money at people who do actually have the skills necessary for a project like this. Not all of us are tech wizards in this world you know.

Quote
because you're an entitled bastard

Oh this is rich coming from someone who doesn't know a single thing about me personally. We appear to be reaching Youtube comment levels of mud slinging here. Something to truly be proud of on a dignified messaging board. I could be a careless brute and throw some insults back your way but I consider myself above all this trivial nonsense and blind slander.

Quote
huge chunks of ISC menus being untranslated months after release to it's existence killing the hard patch initiative.

My two personal nails on Touhou Patch centers well nailed down coffin. The ISC one in particular is a reason why we have gone a big step backwards in patching.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 18, 2015, 01:41:18 pm
HalfGrand, let me be more direct: stop it now.

Would also be great if we could move beyond thcrap and talk about LoLK. My apologies for participating in the slight derail.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 18, 2015, 02:03:41 pm
Agreed!

Quote
Is that Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata in the stage 3 theme that I hear?

Wouldn't be the first time ZUN gets some inspiration for some of his music. Especially from Beethoven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdJnzJjC7Ew
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 18, 2015, 02:04:14 pm
I'm familiar with the piece, trust me. I just don't hear it beyond some vague similarity. I would love to see someone do a side-by-side notation/chord comparison though.
Maybe one of us is going deaf, like Beethoven.


On an unrelated note, I propose a new nickname for Doremy Sweet: Satan Claus


No really, I can't count the times I died during her fight in Pointdevice mode. On Easy mode...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 18, 2015, 02:16:55 pm
Maybe one of us is going deaf, like Beethoven.

Do feel free to put me in my place with an actual notation comparison. Otherwise, there's no reason to think either one of us is going deaf.

No really, I can't count the times I died during her fight in Pointdevice mode. On Easy mode...

I've pretty much abandoned pointdevice at this point. It's neat in the sense that it's like a quasi-Practice Mode, or even how it reminds me of the photog games. But man! You're right, even Easy Mode is punishing. I eagerly await what actual purpose pointdevice will have in the full version; how it pertains to the story and whatnot.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 18, 2015, 02:31:41 pm
Quote
I've pretty much abandoned pointdevice at this point. It's neat in the sense that it's like a quasi-Practice Mode, or even how it reminds me of the photog games. But man! You're right, even Easy Mode is punishing. I eagerly await what actual purpose pointdevice will have in the full version; how it pertains to the story and whatnot.

To know true pleasure and satisfaction, you must first go through alot of pain.

When the full game is released, I look forward to my inevitable and countless defeats before I eventually become skilled enough to beat it and earn a legitimate replay that proves that I did indeed beat it.

Nothing is impossible. If there are people like Jaimers out there who breeze through it effortlessly, then we can as well.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 18, 2015, 03:04:44 pm
For example, you manage to 1CC the game on pointdevice mode... but because you have tainted yourself with the ultramarine orb medicine that Eirin gave you to achieve your 1CC, the stage 6 boss could say something like "you are unworthy to face me in my truest form, impure one" when you beat her and you get a normal happy ending.

Could it be instead, that the subordinate of the culprit stops you from seeing the culprit on easy pointdevice or easy legacy mode?

Like Sakuya in Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil and Marisa in Story of the Eastern Wonderland.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Quwanti on May 18, 2015, 03:12:33 pm
Eternal Spring Dream chiptune mix thing.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMkMY59ut6U). Before anyone asks, I DO NOT CLAIM THIS AS MINE.

I think this is the first remix/arrange of LoLK's soundtrack on Youtube. Didn't bother checking Nico.
This one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc4Z0-G0nbo) was a bit faster. Incredible speed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mikuru on May 18, 2015, 03:27:07 pm
Talking of the music, I've started working out the notation for September Pumpkin so I can play it on piano. It's immensely fun. The main theme is much easier than it sounds and it feels really awesome to play it at a good speed :)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 18, 2015, 04:31:31 pm
Could it be instead, that the subordinate of the culprit stops you from seeing the culprit on easy pointdevice or easy legacy mode?

Like Sakuya in Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil and Marisa in Story of the Eastern Wonderland.

That has nothing to do with what Starx said. Besides, it doesn't make any more sense here than for any other game.

On another note, I think I understand why there's "Practice" in the menu, not "Stage Practice" and "Spell Practice". Odds are we'll be able to choose chapters. And since the stages are divided in chapters, and each nonspell and spellcard counts as a separate chapter, it'll do the job stage practice and spell practice did just fine. And in case of stage practice, even better than before.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 18, 2015, 08:19:08 pm
On game modes: I'm pretty sure there will be no story or ending difference between two modes. It would force players to actually beat both, and I don't feel that was ZUN's intension.

On music: I don't like "music similarities" discussions. Whle exactly same melodies are indeed suspicious, getting, like, five or seven notes matching can be purely coincidential.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 18, 2015, 08:32:12 pm
Re: Stage 3 theme, it doesn't sound like the 1st movement of Moonlight Sonata to me, but I can see (heh) what people mean with the repeating triplets. Yann Tiersen was what actually came to mind first, but it wouldn't be surprising if ZUN took Beethoven as inspiration. The name "Moonlight" is quite fitting.

Re: Doremy Sweet
- The orbs on her dress and hand make me think of chocolate balls and a pastille, respectively. I blame her name.
- I finally figured out who Doremy reminds me of. I had an abridged version of Maeterlinck's The Blue Bird, and one of the places the protagonists visit is the Palace of Mother Night, who was illustrated as having dark blue hair and eyes, a pale face, and dark (black) clothing. She ruled over the Night (obviously), Darkness, Phantoms et al. and Sleep (and consequently, Dreams IIRC). Welp, she certainly left a mark on my then young, impressionable mind, but I digress. :V And I remembered this because of a recent dream I had, interestingly enough. Doremy, was that you?
- For the record, I don't find Doremy herself creepy. It was more of what she unconsciously reminded me of.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 18, 2015, 10:38:49 pm
Doremy consciously reminded me of Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls. Maybe she's Bill's superior?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on May 18, 2015, 10:55:49 pm
Doremy consciously reminded me of Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls. Maybe she's Bill's superior?

I didn't really think Bill was a master of dreams of anything. But now for some reason a TouhouxGravity Falls thing seems interesting. Damnit.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SirSlarty on May 19, 2015, 01:46:49 am
LoLK Stage 3 ≠ Moonlight Sonata

Aside from both pieces being in a minor key with a triplet feel over a common time signature, there's nothing melodic-wise the same.

Note by note comparison (http://imgur.com/0oYn2AZ).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 19, 2015, 03:03:31 am
Oh no he stole three notes from the beginning of Moonlight Sonata, what a disaster

But seriously, they only have the same feel, mood, that's it. Since people love to do this every time a game drops why don't we talk about how the stage 1 boss theme sounds like Old Yuanxian instead
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 19, 2015, 04:20:27 am
Thanks for the comparison, SirSlarty. As these "but ZUN is clearly ripping off [Song X]" discussions seem to always go in circles over who hears what, it's good to see it in black and white once and for all. Man, even the chords are completely different!

But seriously, they only have the same feel, mood, that's it. Since people love to do this every time a game drops why don't we talk about how the stage 1 boss theme sounds like Old Yuanxian instead

wtf zun is even ripping himself off!!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 19, 2015, 04:22:43 am
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 19, 2015, 05:08:57 am
the stage 2 theme of this game has a lot in common with the stage 2 theme of subterranean animism, in that both are good songs
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 19, 2015, 05:09:52 am
But seriously, they only have the same feel, mood, that's it. Since people love to do this every time a game drops why don't we talk about how the stage 1 boss theme sounds like Old Yuanxian instead

I don't hear it. ...unless that was the joke =P.

The only one I definitely hear is Eternal Spring Dream, which sound almost exactly like Winds of Agartha. Like, you could argue that Hartmann's Youkai sounds like U.N. Owen, but with this you can't even.

The first 24 seconds or so of Pumpkin of September also sound really familiar, but I can't remember where I've heard it before. It is a pretty simple melody though, so maybe I'm just remembering scales and arpeggios.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Formless God on May 19, 2015, 05:55:11 am
It's just ~1 second at the beginning of chorus
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 19, 2015, 06:10:52 am
Could it be instead, that the subordinate of the culprit stops you from seeing the culprit on easy pointdevice or easy legacy mode?

Like Sakuya in Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil and Marisa in Story of the Eastern Wonderland.

The quote is weird, it is as if you quoted my quote and not my response. I did not say what you quoted, I responded to that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 19, 2015, 06:27:54 am
Indeed, i just couldn't find it. Sorry.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: somenobody on May 19, 2015, 08:43:29 am
To me, Pumpkin of September's intro sounds simillar to Kanako's theme .

I also find it neat that when you fight Ringo, she sits in a simillar fashion as Kanako and not to mention you fight her in the same location.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: angels above me on May 19, 2015, 10:11:15 am
So after stage 3, are we officially on the moon? Or will the heroines go through some space route that'll lead them to the moon?

Cuz I would love a space stage, and the whole game is quite heavily implying that we are going to space. (Title song is translated to The Space Shrine Maiden Appears, and stage 4 song is translated to The Mysterious Shrine Maiden Flying Through Space. So wait, are we in space right now? Or are in the dream world? Is space the dream world? Huh?).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 19, 2015, 12:47:03 pm
Any thoughts on how the chaos in the Lunar Capital, plus the ensuing danmaku battles, may affect the Moon's purity? Here's hoping for a stage with blooming and colourful udonge trees in the background.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 19, 2015, 01:58:09 pm
Does Seiran have one or two hair bunches?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plastic Vortex on May 19, 2015, 02:11:47 pm
Does Seiran have one or two hair bunches?

I'm guessing it's like a curly ponytail thing that probably held together by a small ribbon or something.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 19, 2015, 02:15:10 pm
Any thoughts on how the chaos in the Lunar Capital, plus the ensuing danmaku battles, may affect the Moon's purity? Here's hoping for a stage with blooming and colourful udonge trees in the background.

Well the moon's purity can easily be affected if the culprit is a high ranking person, i'm betting it's the current Moon Princess ( cough cough not Usagi cough cough ) or someone of that jonhra.

Doremi or Ringo say something about a mad man.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 19, 2015, 02:32:47 pm
I didn't really think Bill was a master of dreams of anything. But now for some reason a TouhouxGravity Falls thing seems interesting. Damnit.
Bill states in his AMA that he's looking for a promotion, implying that there are other creatures like him that exist that are greater in power than he is. He also states that he used to have a family, but not anymore, which also adds more evidence to the theory that there might be more dream demons hanging around than just Cipher himself. It's not entirely too farfetched that Bill might be acquainted with Doremy. Bill also gives a picture of a strange humanoid and says that his friends "look like this", which could be seen as a nod to the positively poor quality of ZUNart.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 19, 2015, 03:29:30 pm
Any thoughts on how the chaos in the Lunar Capital, plus the ensuing danmaku battles, may affect the Moon's purity? Here's hoping for a stage with blooming and colourful udonge trees in the background.
Well, since LoLK is gonna be connected to ULiL, my  theory is this:
-During ULiL, someone manages to bring the Moon power-stone on Earth and messes with Sumireko's power-stones.
-The "madman" (someone really important) is scared about how the Moon power stone was brought on earth, because it might bring earthlings on the Moon, and orders the "purification" to be done.
-Some lunarians don't agree and they start a civil war, either killing each other and thus tainting the Moon with impurity coming from death, or trying to remove that person from his/her high-ranking position, causing impurity coming from "political power" (the same impurity that makes the Udonge plant bloom).

To me, this theory seems to make sense, but i'm sure there's plenty of holes in it, mainly because i don't know the endings of ULiL very well :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 19, 2015, 03:38:48 pm
Is this purification is the same as Toyohime's "purification"? Could it possibly be a misunderstanding?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 19, 2015, 04:30:32 pm
Well, the manual backstory seems to be pretty clear. Someone is trying to purify the Earth and make it "a perfect world with no life".
Looks like they even sent a Doomsday Machine in Gensokyo to do the job  :ohdear:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 19, 2015, 04:34:41 pm
Does Seiran have one or two hair bunches?

Two. The right one is seen clearly, the left one is mostly behind her, but you can see glimpses of it between her head and left arm.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 19, 2015, 08:49:18 pm
I have a feeling that whoever LoLK's "madman" antagonist is will be the true culprit for ULiL, as implied by Reimu's final scenario dialogue in ULiL that  Sumireko was being used by someone else. I wonder if by this it means we'll get another human antagonist, maybe the person who made those spider-machine things?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 19, 2015, 09:18:14 pm
I have a feeling that whoever LoLK's "madman" antagonist is will be the true culprit for ULiL, as implied by Reimu's final scenario dialogue in ULiL that  Sumireko was being used by someone else. I wonder if by this it means we'll get another human antagonist, maybe the person who made those spider-machine things?

The spider machines are just NASA-style rovers for exploring another planet.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Banim on May 20, 2015, 01:29:27 am
I have a feeling it's possible we might not even go to the moon and the Lunar Capital at all. On Stage 3, if the protagonist being in the Dream World on the way to the Lunar Capital is indeed part of a trap that has been set up for her, she could very well be led to some other place for the later half of the game. What purpose would that have, I don't know. Just a hunch. I do hope I am wrong though because visiting the Lunar Capital would be really, really epic.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plastic Vortex on May 20, 2015, 01:41:57 am
The spider machines are just NASA-style rovers for exploring another planet.

Quote from: Sanae Kochiya
That thing looked just like Curiosity.
I think the Lunarians reprogrammed Curiosity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_(rover)) or something. But how they got Curiosity, a Mars Rover, is questionable.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 20, 2015, 02:21:47 am
I think the Lunarians reprogrammed Curiosity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_(rover)) or something. But how they got Curiosity, a Mars Rover, is questionable.
Japanese fans have linked this to the fact (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Magical_Astronomy/Story#.E8.BB.8A.E6.A4.85.E5.AD.90.E3.81.AE.E6.9C.AA.E6.9D.A5.E5.AE.87.E5.AE.99) that humanity has yet to successfully carry out a manned Mars mission in the future, according to Magical Astronomy. They theorize that the Lunarians, or a similar faction, may have set up on Mars a life-cleansing mechanism similar to LoLK's reprogrammed Curiosity, which may have killed off any native Martian life, and will eradicate the astronauts landing on Mars.

In that case, the Mars has already been a home base for the Lunarians or the "madman" who now dominates them.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plastic Vortex on May 20, 2015, 02:46:17 am
Japanese fans have linked this to the fact (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Magical_Astronomy/Story#.E8.BB.8A.E6.A4.85.E5.AD.90.E3.81.AE.E6.9C.AA.E6.9D.A5.E5.AE.87.E5.AE.99) that humanity has yet to successfully carry out a manned Mars mission in the future, according to Magical Astronomy. They theorize that the Lunarians, or a similar faction, may have set up on Mars a life-cleansing mechanism similar to LoLK's reprogrammed Curiosity, which may have killed off any native Martian life, and will eradicate the astronauts landing on Mars.

In that case, the Mars has already been a home base for the Lunarians or the "madman" who now dominates them.

Hmm...then I feel like thats a possibility that the Extra stage could be in Mars. After the main incident is solved, the Final Boss could lead them to Mars, where there is another commander or something.

Inb4 Rover 2hu  :V

EDIT: Then again, those things can't become tsukumogami.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 20, 2015, 02:51:27 am
Although ever since EoSD, the Extra stages have reused background art from earlier stages. The dream space is still the safest bet for Extra.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 20, 2015, 03:56:47 am
Quote
Doremi or Ringo say something about a mad man.

Should probably stop using the term mad man, I am pretty sure it is gender non-specific.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 20, 2015, 04:19:04 am
Although ever since EoSD, the Extra stages have reused background art from earlier stages. The dream space is still the safest bet for Extra.

With Doremy's sis- I mean, Gengetsu for boss.

Extra Dialogue:

Gengetsu: Hey kid, get outta my lawn This is my dream space! Get out!
Reimu: and what if I don't?
Gengetsu: Then you're in for a treat!
*battle starts*
*battle ends*
Gengetsu: *sob sob* you're strong!
Gengetsu: wait, why did you even come here anyway...?
Reimu: ...I don't know... *sweatdrop*
Gengetsu: huu...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 20, 2015, 09:58:54 am
Going straight to the lunar capital and taking on the whole lunar defense corps seems  brazen even for the heroines, but it's another thing if they, dunno, suddenly appeared in the palace where the "mad person" resides, then it'd be a bit different. Also, it seems a bit weird that the incident this time is about an invasion of THE EARTH, while the "purification" is being done IN GENSOKYO. Unless these are both part of the incident.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on May 20, 2015, 10:20:11 am
Going straight to the lunar capital and taking on the whole lunar defense corps seems  brazen even for the heroines, but it's another thing if they, dunno, suddenly appeared in the palace where the "mad person" resides, then it'd be a bit different. Also, it seems a bit weird that the incident this time is about an invasion of THE EARTH, while the "purification" is being done IN GENSOKYO. Unless these are both part of the incident.
Maybe something or somebody in Gensokyo is keeping them from invading the Earth, or it's being used as a way to get the heroines' attention before the real thing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 20, 2015, 11:31:12 am
Regarding story / character: If Seiran is doing covert mission, does this mean she has infiltrated the Earthling rabbits? Which is a bit weird when I think about it, earthling rabbits were real rabbit-like creatures right? She would stand out as a Lunarian rabbit. Though does somehow dress similar to Tewi in terms of outfit style (puffy frilly with bloomers under).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 20, 2015, 04:39:17 pm
They look like rabbits only in Inabas manga, just for fun. They're humanoid like Tewi otherwise. If SSiB isn't enough as evidence, they can pound mochi and sing according to CiLR.

...if that's what you're asking.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 20, 2015, 05:22:51 pm
I always assumed animal youkai can turn into animals whenever they want, kind of like Rin in SA.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 20, 2015, 10:28:39 pm
They look like rabbits only in Inabas manga, just for fun. They're humanoid like Tewi otherwise. If SSiB isn't enough as evidence, they can pound mochi and sing according to CiLR.

...if that's what you're asking.
Yes, that was kind of my question. That would then somehow make sense for Seiran to be "one of them", I guess?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 21, 2015, 02:07:12 am
I always assumed animal youkai can turn into animals whenever they want, kind of like Rin in SA.
It's probably a common enough trait that Akyuu found it necessary to state that Shou can't turn into her man-eating form anymore in SoPM.

Yes, that was kind of my question. That would then somehow make sense for Seiran to be "one of them", I guess?
Well, outside of Tewi, the rabbits don't seem to be that smart, so it probably wouldn't be too difficult.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 21, 2015, 08:57:41 am
Not necessary regarding their intelligence. Lunar rabbits aren't quite bright either but more like the fact that if all Earthling rabbits are humanoid then Seiran is executing her task correctly. The way she dresses (Tewi like, thus earthling style) and her Mocchi hammer is true undercover (not sure about her patterns with the moon and stars)

Makes me wonder how long she has been already infiltrating them.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 21, 2015, 09:59:04 am
Hilarity I just noticed: the mirroring of the moon rabbits' profiles

イーグルラヴィと呼ばれる地上の調査部隊の中でも潜入操作という、一番危険な仕事を持つ。危険な割に賃金は低い。
Amongst the members of the "Eagle Ravi" Earth Recon Unit, she has the most dangerous job: infiltration operations. She isn't paid much relative to the danger.

イーグルラヴィと呼ばれる地上の調査部隊の中で情報管理という、閑職を担っている。楽な割に位の高い役職。
Amongst the members of the "Eagle Ravi" Earth Recon Unit, she bears the most leisurely job: information management. She has a high-ranking post relative to the leisure.

You fight Seiran while she's busy making mochi for everyone else, while on her break, and cries that the higher ups will kill her if she spills information.
You fight Ringo because she thinks it'll be fun and has no consequence to losing, and basically cheers you on to head to the Capital.

this is amazing
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Espadas on May 21, 2015, 10:04:00 am
Lol ZUN trolling the characters themselves? Why am i not surprised? :V

And it's also hilariously similar to some REAL LIFE work situations  :derp:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 21, 2015, 10:33:15 am
Real life depicted pretty well with Seiran and Ringo. Lower ranked > dirty jobs > afraid. Higher ranked > loljobs > care++.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Skullbelly on May 21, 2015, 12:14:57 pm
Their colour schemes contrast against each other too- blue/orange, cool/warm colours.

I'd like to see how their personalities play out in future works/fan-works.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Quils on May 21, 2015, 04:58:56 pm
Not necessary regarding their intelligence. Lunar rabbits aren't quite bright either but more like the fact that if all Earthling rabbits are humanoid then Seiran is executing her task correctly. The way she dresses (Tewi like, thus earthling style) and her Mocchi hammer is true undercover (not sure about her patterns with the moon and stars)

Makes me wonder how long she has been already infiltrating them.


But wasn't it mentioned in SSiB (or CiLR, I can't remember which one) that Tewi knows all the Earth rabbits? I think she would have noticed if there was an infiltrator... Or maybe she did and that's why Eientei is helping?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 21, 2015, 09:50:01 pm
Regarding ULiL connections i just remembered that in Nitori's scenario, when Nitori talks to Mokou in the Bamboo Forest, she seems to say that the Master of the house was the only one buying the balls from her. Unless it was Kagerou's house (:V), doesn't it mean Kaguya or Eirin were buying the balls?

Adding also the Eirin-Kaguya dialogue in LoLK backstory, particularly this:

Eirin: "If they're making a move, no humans will possibly be able to compete with them.
But if we stand against them, we'll be playing right into their hands.

i'm starting to suspect that the Eientei people are behind the whole thing for some unknown reason. This also explains why they already knew what was going on.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 21, 2015, 09:56:25 pm
Regarding ULiL connections i just remembered that in Nitori's scenario, when Nitori talks to Mokou in the Bamboo Forest, she seems to say that the Master of the house was the only one buying the balls from her. Unless it was Kagerou's house (:V), doesn't it mean Kaguya or Eirin were buying the balls?

They were standing in front of Miko's dojo, so Nitori was clearly talking about Miko, who was the only person in the game who actually bought balls from her (back in Miko's route). This also means that Mokou was talking about Futo as the immortal resident of the house (she left the forest to go visit Futo, who intrigued her), and the whole scene was 100% composed of references to previous routes. The fight took place in a stage belonging to neither of the characters involved. Also, Mokou and Futo are immortal-buddies and you should ship them, I guess.

I was wondering if the transcription failed to properly convey this context, and apparently the answer was yes.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 21, 2015, 10:17:50 pm
Ah, thank you. For some reason I assumed they were in Mokou's forest stage when talking.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 21, 2015, 10:23:43 pm
Probably because you're fighting Mokou, and the BGM changes to "Bamboo Forest in Flames". I think that's a reasonable assumption, if you're not playing the game while you read it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 22, 2015, 07:03:45 am
@Quils,

Yes. After my post I started digging through the profiles of the Eientei household and started skimming/re-reading CiLR. I kind of got obsessed with LoLK story and have to wait for the prologue in the full version to see whether my guessing is correct.

Regarding the prologue of LoLK (my own guessing)
When Rei`Sen fell from the sky, Tewi did indeed confirm to Reimu that it wasn't one of them. Eirin also explained that Tewi knows all Earthling rabbits thoroughly and thus has no doubt in Tewi's statement. Before Reimu visited, Reisen questioned whether Tewi shouldn't be scolded or not for doing w/e she pleases.

So, we know that Tewi is the leader and they only obey her no matter what. This means Tewi is in an ultimate position to gather intel in Gensoukyo, especially bamboo forest. We know that Reisen frequently talks with the Lunar Rabbits and Eirin frequently is requesting her to gather intel. The 2nd Lunarian Invasion planned by Yukari but before known as 'an invasion from earth' was also caught using Reisen's abilities. The Lunar Rabbits are described generally as docile and order obeying creatures, but the case of Rei`Sen and Reisen were showing that some of them 'break out' or want to break out. Reisen was also described as unique with high capabilities but had two negative traits which made her a 'bad soldier' according to the sisters (cowardliness and selfishness). Anyway...

This means Eirin has supreme intel on both ends + allies on both ends. The Watatsuki sisters are allied to Eirin which is clearly shown and told in CiLR. I am guessing the Prologue will show this intel gathering or the sisters somehow managed to contact Eientei.

Based on this, I am slowly drawing a conclusion that Tewi intentionally let Seiran and Ringo infiltrate the Earthling rabbits so Eirin could monitor the Lunar Capital's rumors/stories like she always did. And based on the intel gathered she asked an important favour to our heroines.

Reimu and Marisa show pro-actively there is an incident as they operate under the favour asked from Eirin. Reisen logically operates under orders from 'her Master'. Sanae again sounds like she is tagging along like she did in UFO.

I don't think we will see the sisters as potential bosses. If they are allied to Lady Yagokoro (as they speak of her), they won't fight her or her friends (Which they have met before any way and fought). They might show up in the story lines or maybe mentioned as dialogues.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on May 22, 2015, 09:45:24 am
Well, Ringo *did* involve Youkai Mountain by invading, so Sanae has the reason to look into the metal spider and it's passengers.
As for Watatsukis, them testing the protagonists' strength or pulling an Aya ("I have to fight you to keep up apperances, but I won't bother going all-out") is always an option. So is Extra Stage. From the meta point of view, LoLK is propably the best if not the only occasion to actually make the "too strong to be in a game" Watatsuki sisters into bosses, as the advantage of the Ultramarine Medicine could let the protagonists stand up to them.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 22, 2015, 11:19:29 am
Am I the only one who doesn't want the Watatsuki sisters in a Touhou game? ZUN himself said that they were 3OP5Touhou.
To be frank, I find having them show up as bosses in a Touhou game would be very disappointing in ways I cannot exactly pin down.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 22, 2015, 11:25:48 am
"Am I the only one" sounds like all of us want them to be in the game. I cannot recall my posts stating I want them in nor out.

Of course large number of people are hoping for them to be in. Just like how many people hope for Mima to be in.

The princesses being in the game wouldn't be disappointing but unfitting and hard to work with as a story line. Bosses appearing have usually a motive / drive. It is already said a madman is possible the incident for LoLK and my post above guesses that they won't be appearing.

Edit: Though the princesses are the leaders of the Lunar Rabbit squadron and holding firm training. They could be involved in the story line as said but not appear as bosses themselves. Defeating them would be problematic for the Lunar Capital.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 22, 2015, 12:07:05 pm
"Am I the only one" sounds like all of us want them to be in the game. I cannot recall my posts stating I want them in nor out.

Of course large number of people are hoping for them to be in. Just like how many people hope for Mima to be in.

The princesses being in the game wouldn't be disappointing but unfitting and hard to work with as a story line. Bosses appearing have usually a motive / drive. It is already said a madman is possible the incident for LoLK and my post above guesses that they won't be appearing.

Edit: Though the princesses are the leaders of the Lunar Rabbit squadron and holding firm training. They could be involved in the story line as said but not appear as bosses themselves. Defeating them would be problematic for the Lunar Capital.
Story wise it wouldn't be too hard to put them in. Like Critz said, they could be half-assing it in stage 4. If the madman is running the Lunar Capital now she (the madman) had to take power somehow, so beating them can't be that problematic. Especially if they make it obvious that they're not going all out. They could also be extra bosses fighting for fun or something.

I can imagine the Watatsukis being underwhelming if done poorly, but I can also imagine them being awesome if done right. The way Seiran, Ringo, and Doremy's attacks have been I don't think the Watatsukis would be very fun in this game, but I hope they show up and I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 22, 2015, 12:19:53 pm
The Watatsukis are troublesome to be fititng in this game. In CiLR they effortlessly beaten the heroines. Storywise they cannot fit because that would entail the heroines need to beat them and beating the leaders and princess of the Lunar Capital is a huge discomfort for them. I don't think Eirin will also enjoy this. This isn't about the " power levels ", but about the relationship and nature of Lunarians and the story about the early two invasions.

Of course we can endlessly debate about this but it will all remain wild guessing. I am more like personally obsessed by Seiran/Ringo's presence in Gensoukyo + the actual job Tewi is comitting for Eientei. Even though she has some what of a profile and usually portrait as prankster / annoying, she is actually quite helpful in general protective.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 22, 2015, 12:27:25 pm
Story wise it wouldn't be too hard to put them in. Like Critz said, they could be half-assing it in stage 4. If the madman is running the Lunar Capital now she (the madman) had to take power somehow, so beating them can't be that problematic. Especially if they make it obvious that they're not going all out. They could also be extra bosses fighting for fun or something.

I can imagine the Watatsukis being underwhelming if done poorly, but I can also imagine them being awesome if done right. The way Seiran, Ringo, and Doremy's attacks have been I don't think the Watatsukis would be very fun in this game, but I hope they show up and I hope I'm wrong.


Except if the Watatsuki Sisters were beaten, then the culprit is even stronger than them, so that means that Reimu and the others, desperately need the UltraMarine Medicine. Maybe the Watatsuki Sisters and the culprit are related or something.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 22, 2015, 12:31:00 pm
Ugh, yes, "Am I the only one who [X]" is getting tired in this thread, as often as it's been evoked.

I am on the fence about the Watas being in the game. On the one hand, it's neat seeing literary characters appear in a game. On the other hand, it would probably have to involve some kind of nerf or buff that would just seem shoehorned in. I cannot imagine these Lunarians, with their sneering disgust for Earthlings, being shruggo about fighting and holding back in some way.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 22, 2015, 12:39:28 pm
pulling an Aya ("I have to fight you to keep up apperances, but I won't bother going all-out") is always an option.

Doremy already did that, so I doubt ZUN will repeat this pattern.

I really can't predict what he will do. Watatsukis are too strong to appear as bosses, and they can't lose on purpose - it will make lunarians think they are planning rebellion. On the other hand, they have to appear as bosses since, technically, earthlings are invading the Moon, and it's their duty to fight invaders.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 22, 2015, 02:25:52 pm
I'm guessing that they will be having cameo appearances in the endings and mentions in the dialogue of the game. To me that seems the most likely to happen.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 22, 2015, 07:07:43 pm
If the Watatsuki sisters were in the game I'd honestly only see them ranking as Phantasm bosses considering their strength, the extra boss being someone like Reisen, like how PCB's extra was a direct subordinate to the Phantasm. A way to get around "Beating the watatsukis = trouble in the lunar capital" could be to make the fight last like a phantasm fight but end as a draw? I don't know, my best guess is that even though the sisters decimated Marisa/Reimu, the protagonists could've grown stronger since the last time they fought the sisters. Then again I don't know if there's some rule that Yukari can be the series' only phantasm boss, but if anyone the sisters seem like they'd fit the tier pretty well.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on May 22, 2015, 07:33:34 pm
Have the sisters show up after they've just gotten into a fight with the mad man and thus clearly not at full power. *shrug*  There are probably tons of excuses ZUN could make up if he wanted to. (question being whether or not he does)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 22, 2015, 10:26:20 pm
Honestly, we should just deal with all of the speculation, no matter how... ridiculous you may think it is, until it gets confirmed/discredited by the actual release itself.

I think the sisters showing up would be neat, however I really do feel it's better they have a limited appearance rather than full-on boss appearances. Still, I am awfully curious to see how they'd fight in the gameplay environment - let's face it, one of the reasons they won is because they were in a LITERARY one and weren't bound to the laws of gameplay/story division on top of, well, being the kind of beings they are.

As I'm saying... we'll just have to see what happens in August! BV
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 22, 2015, 10:40:37 pm
I still think that if they showed up they'd have to be extra bosses, and therefore all these concerns about the plot are totally irrelevant. And you're all silly for talking about them. They could also do the Fairy Wars thing and have them them technically "win" even after the player beats the stage, and indicated by them not appearing beat up in their portraits.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 23, 2015, 12:22:05 am
If the Wata sisters show up as Extra/Phantasm bosses, they'll be the first double Extra stage boss (2 bosses at the same time, like the Prisimrivers, the Faries of Light, and the Tsukumos in DDC Extra).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 23, 2015, 12:30:49 am
I still think that if they showed up they'd have to be extra bosses, and therefore all these concerns about the plot are totally irrelevant. And you're all silly for talking about them.

Speculations pre-full-release are always silly, which is also why they are fun. Plus you can bookmark your post and, if it turns out you were right, you can claim victory for your prescience publicly.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 23, 2015, 12:35:37 am
Speculations pre-full-release are always silly, which is also why they are fun. Plus you can bookmark your post and, if it turns out you were right, you can claim victory for your prescience publicly.

I know someone who correctly predicted that Yuyuko would be the stage 1 boss of the next Touhou game, which turned out to be TD.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 23, 2015, 12:44:36 am
Wow, kudos to that person. Seeing Yuyuko as a Stage 1 boss sure took me by surprise, as I'm sure it did a lot of people.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 23, 2015, 01:30:43 am
Did anybody predict the return of Kogasa in TD?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 23, 2015, 02:33:04 am
Did anybody predict the return of Kogasa in TD?
I guess it was a SURPRISE for them when they found out

:P
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Giratina93 on May 23, 2015, 03:23:04 am
Speaking of characters, am I the only one who finds it weird that there are no seperate mid-boss characters so far? Seiren, Ringo, and Doremy are both the midboss and the bosses of their stages, which is a little unusual given the past of previous games first 3 stages.

EoSD: Daiyousei in Stage 2
PCB: Cirno in Stage 1
IN: Okay, you got me here. (Inb4 lunar conspiracy)
MoF: Shizuha Aki in stage 1
SA: Kisume in Stage 1
UFO: Okay, you got me here again.
TD: Nameless spirit in Stage 1, Kogasa in Stage 3
DDC: Cirno (Again) in Stage 1

So, not as unknown as I thought.... maybe it's a pattern of every three games, no new midboss characters?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Camilo113 on May 23, 2015, 03:35:55 am
Speaking of characters, am I the only one who finds it weird that there are no seperate mid-boss characters so far? Seiren, Ringo, and Doremy are both the midboss and the bosses of their stages, which is a little unusual given the past of previous games first 3 stages.

EoSD: Daiyousei in Stage 2
PCB: Cirno in Stage 1
IN: Okay, you got me here. (Inb4 lunar conspiracy)
MoF: Shizuha Aki in stage 1
SA: Kisume in Stage 1
UFO: Okay, you got me here again.
TD: Nameless spirit in Stage 1, Kogasa in Stage 3
DDC: Cirno (Again) in Stage 1

So, not as unknown as I thought.... maybe it's a pattern of every three games, no new midboss characters?

Why would you find it weird if you just pointed out not every game must have a midboss character??
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Giratina93 on May 23, 2015, 05:43:36 am
Why would you find it weird if you just pointed out not every game must have a midboss character??
I dunno... I just find it a little strange for some reason, Like I'm more used to midboss characters being there than... not being there.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 23, 2015, 08:00:26 am
There is no real pattern. Cirno appeared in DDC as midboss because the heroines were travelling the misty lake and Cirno lives/moves around there. In DDC, the first 3 stages were existing places we had visited before in the past games. As said, bosses appearing or midbosses appearing have to "fit" the story line some how. That includes the stages themselves.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 23, 2015, 08:37:59 am
And, of course, previous game stage revisits aren't just a DDC thing, either - This game's's stage 1 being MoF's during a different season, and revisiting PCB Stage 5/6 in 10D's Stage 1.

...And then there's coincidentally returning to a PC-98 area in UFO (Makai), and now the Dream World here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 23, 2015, 09:31:47 am
Some bosses reappears in several stages to put up a fight, some bosses are their own midbosses,  some people are fought around the place they live, etc... I don't think there is a set pattern for the midboss appearance because there is way too much diversity. The lack of stage 6 midboss for the religion related final boss is as close as a pattern you can get.

...And then there's coincidentally returning to a PC-98 area in UFO (Makai), and now the Dream World here.
Maybe the settings of these places might have been slightly improved compared to how they were before ? Like, we have Makai but no direct references to Shinki yet, meaning that Shinki (and the rest of PC-98 era cast for that matter...) is basically Schrdinger's cat as far as canon goes ; while the dream world and its new settings is canon and modern and might even allow to do new kind of speculations that the PC-98 dream world (with questionable canon value) didn't allow to make, like, maybe Merry's popular time travel theory is related to the dream world and that she- wow, derailing averted. Anyway, with this, the dream world isn't getting retconned, but the rest are still not certain.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 23, 2015, 09:35:24 am
am I the only one who

(http://i.imgur.com/Pqjq0n0.png)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mr Jovial on May 23, 2015, 10:37:46 am
Are the games officially numbered 14.3 then 14.5 then 15? Because that seems a bit unusual...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 23, 2015, 10:56:43 am
Well, x.5s are always fighting affairs... by which I mean all of the fighters have been an x.5, not that all x.5s have been fighters. I guess ZUN was already planning ULiL when he made ISC... and then he decided another game between a x.5 and a x.0 was unnecessary since ULiL is a direct prequel to LoLK.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 23, 2015, 11:22:28 am
... An evil thought just occured to me. Because every stage 5 boss has an unique gimmick, I just got an idea that maybe we're going to get Gravity Manipulation (with being on the Moon and all). Sounds scary.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 23, 2015, 11:31:53 am
I can see it now ... you slowly float up the screen during the spellcards, powerless to stop it, then drop to the bottom of the screen at the spellcard's end.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on May 23, 2015, 12:00:29 pm
Well Utsuho's final spellcard has a gravity thing, where you're sucked towards the big sun in the middle. So a gravity gimmick wouldn't be unprecedented.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 23, 2015, 12:42:42 pm
Well, x.5s are always fighting affairs... by which I mean all of the fighters have been an x.5, not that all x.5s have been fighters. I guess ZUN was already planning ULiL when he made ISC... and then he decided another game between a x.5 and a x.0 was unnecessary since ULiL is a direct prequel to LoLK.

12.3

That said, who knows? Maybe it's just that 14.8 is in plans for later. Then again, maybe not.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 23, 2015, 01:22:39 pm
Well Utsuho's final spellcard has a gravity thing, where you're sucked towards the big sun in the middle. So a gravity gimmick wouldn't be unprecedented.
That's true but it's only in one card. It dragging over the whole battle would be pure evil.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 23, 2015, 01:29:54 pm
12.3

That said, who knows? Maybe it's just that 14.8 is in plans for later. Then again, maybe not.
Yeah. One can still hope.
There's not even a need for a possible 14.8 to be related to ULiL/LoLK plotline. IaMP came after IN despite happening before, and had no relation to IN.
Looks also like xx.3 and xx.8 games are really minor events compared to the others, and for what we know ZUN could make a game starring Rumia dodging incoming trees in the darkness, or Mystia throwing grilled eels to people while collecting yakitori.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 23, 2015, 01:39:48 pm
... An evil thought just occured to me. Because every stage 5 boss has an unique gimmick, I just got an idea that maybe we're going to get Gravity Manipulation (with being on the Moon and all). Sounds scary.

You just made me imagine a Touhou Isaac Newton. Again, the moon wouldn't be a likely environment to find him, if anything, he's more of a Patchouli-like being.

Neil Armstrong anyone?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on May 23, 2015, 01:44:46 pm
Some bosses reappears in several stages to put up a fight, some bosses are their own midbosses,  some people are fought around the place they live, etc... I don't think there is a set pattern for the midboss appearance because there is way too much diversity. The lack of stage 6 midboss for the religion related final boss is as close as a pattern you can get.
Not really on topic, but there is one pattern that's consistant- stage 4 midbosses are different from the stage 4 boss. The only exceptions are IN and TD, though in TD Seiga is alone for her midboss fight while she has Yoshika with her for the boss fight. IN's midboss is different from normal midbosses for several other reasons- it's the only midboss with 4 patterns, the only midboss that changes the theme, and the only stage 4 midboss with dialogue.

Are the games officially numbered 14.3 then 14.5 then 15? Because that seems a bit unusual...
It is strange though I guess it's still possible for ZUN to make 14.8 after 15. It wouldn't be the first time, though it would be odd.

On a different note, I think Ringo's spells are a lot harder than Doremy's. Ringo's are mostly tons of spam coming from every direction, so there aren't any tricks to make it easier. Doremy has extremely complex patterns but once you know their tricks they aren't really that hard. The non spells are about equal in difficulty.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 23, 2015, 04:16:26 pm
IaMP came after IN because fighting games take forever to make. It doesn't prove anything.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 23, 2015, 04:49:46 pm
Yo guys, I have been thinking about this for awhile and I was wondering if anybody else may have noticed this as well.

From the trial version that we have so far, is anybody noticing a distinct food motif with this game?

For example, Seiran was pounding mochi when the heroine ambushed her. Ringo's ability is literally growing stronger from eating dango and is eating all the way through the battle. Doremy seems to be all about eating dreams, since she is a baku.

I haven't played the trial version yet since I'm waiting for the full release, but has there been any mention of food in spellcards or anything in the stages that hints of food?

It will be interesting to see if this leads to something in the full game.  :munch:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 23, 2015, 09:26:17 pm
Speculations pre-full-release are always silly, which is also why they are fun. [...]
Pre-release speculations are one honking great fun---let's do more of those!

In the Prolog, Eirin says,
Quote
"If they're making a move, no humans will possibly be able to compete with them.
But if we stand against them, we'll be playing right into their hands.
Moreover, the youkai of Earth likely can't even interfere to begin with."
The passage reads as if they are luring Eientei (Eirin and Kaguya) out, by forcing their hand as the only ones capable of resistance. This is compounded by the former's notions that youkai (likely) can't help, nor can humans fend the invaders off. (This seems to mirror their predicament at the beginning of IN, when they had to deal with matters themselves. Of course, Eirin---with her genius and preparedness---took the way out by enabling select humans to do so.)

We learn in Bougetsushou that the Lunar Capital are still looking for Eientei, the responsibility of which falls on the Watatsukis. It's possible that, in addition to purifying the Earth, the invasion is a means of capturing them. It seems like taking them to the Capital holds a purpose, despite the Earth already being an impure prison. (Close to the mad person, perhaps? Research into obtaining absolute immortality? The drinkers of the Elixir aren't impure?)

Having written the above, I realised that the Earth purification would lead to the same condition, i.e., Eientei would be within reach of the Capital. Instead of bringing them to purity, they bring purity to them.



Regarding the Watatsukis, Toyohime states that she and her sister are "the most closely-related" to Earth matters, so they would have some involvement with recent events. But their stance has always been defensive, and they expressed no desire in capturing their master and the princess, if the latter is indeed one of the goals. Story-wise, either they won't put much effort into it, like what others said, or they were stopped from interfering, e.g., made powerless, stripped from their titles and duties.

The link between ULiL and LoLK appears to be the ball from the Lunar Capital, which connects a place to presumably the latter (see Clarste's ULiL plot summary; contains spoilers). The chaos in the Capital and perhaps the invasion are caused by one lunatic, which hints at this person's very high rank and status. According to Toyohime, when Earth discovered that reality is based on probabilities and gained the potential to reach the Capital, she named one person who was particularly affected. Is the mad person perhaps their Lord Tsukuyomi?

Tsukuyomi is the one who realised that impurity drains life on the Earth, and left with his trusted relatives for the Moon. Coupled with the threat of further defilement, rectifying what originally drove him out sounds like a legitimate move. Maybe the title Lunatic Kingdom is a hint in this direction? (I can imagine his affairs becoming worse when he no longer had Eirin's intellect to rely on. And I'm not saying we'll definitely get a male boss; there's always the first time, but ZUN can just throw in a twist and have us fight someone else instead, say his sister, Amaterasu.)

For more details, CiLR's third chapter discusses significant topics and seems very relevant IMHO.



@HalfGrand: Doremy and sweets for me. :V If I were to go by my theory, there is another connection: Amaterasu became angry with Tsukuyomi when he killed Uke Mochi, the goddess of food.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 23, 2015, 10:36:44 pm
Am I the only one who doesn't want the Watatsuki sisters in a Touhou game? ZUN himself said that they were 3OP5Touhou.
To be frank, I find having them show up as bosses in a Touhou game would be very disappointing in ways I cannot exactly pin down.

Zun says a lot of things, so you shouldn't take it all as facts. It isn't like this is the first time that the protagonist "lose" in story scenarios, even if they win. Great Fairy Wars and several other games do this.

Quote
In CiLR they effortlessly beaten the heroines. Storywise they cannot fit because that would entail the heroines need to beat them and beating the leaders and princess of the Lunar Capital is a huge discomfort for them. I don't think Eirin will also enjoy this. This isn't about the " power levels ", but about the relationship and nature of Lunarians and the story about the early two invasions.

Yorihime effortlessly beat Marisa and Sakuya. Not so for Remilia and Reimu. It kind of depends on what the take is, as we don't know how act 4+ will pan out.

Will Eirin want to see her pupils get defeated? It kind of depends. Does Eirin want to instill some humility on them?

Quote
Then again I don't know if there's some rule that Yukari can be the series' only phantasm boss, but if anyone the sisters seem like they'd fit the tier pretty well.

Maybe Phantasm was added, because Extra boss is unrelated to the events, but Phantasm is related.

Quote
while the dream world and its new settings is canon and modern and might even allow to do new kind of speculations that the PC-98 dream world (with questionable canon value) didn't allow to make, like, maybe Merry's popular time travel theory is related to the dream world and that she- wow, derailing averted. Anyway, with this, the dream world isn't getting retconned, but the rest are still not certain.

I wonder if you will have some dialogue with Yuuka, since dream world is kind of her thing and she is a current Windows character.

Quote
Because every stage 5 boss has an unique gimmick, I just got an idea that maybe we're going to get Gravity Manipulation (with being on the Moon and all). Sounds scary.

Suika already did that in Immaterial and Missing Power, so I don't know how unique that would be.

Quote
(I can imagine his affairs becoming worse when he no longer had Eirin's intellect to rely on. And I'm not saying we'll definitely get a male boss; there's always the first time, but ZUN can just throw in a twist and have us fight someone else instead, say his sister, Amaterasu.)

Yeah, I don't think you are fighting Amaterasu.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 23, 2015, 10:47:55 pm
Doremi stated that the Lunar Capital itself, is becoming impure as well, thanks to all the mess that the culprit has created, could the culprit actually want to cause chaos on the Lunar Capital on purpose so that she might become it's new ruler or something else.

If my theory is right, then maybe Yorihime and Toyohime might understand the culprit's plot and allow Reimu and company to move on, or maybe they will pull an Aya so as to not raise suspicion.

Also i am really looking forward to the interactions with Reisen and the Lunarians.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Hinacle on May 24, 2015, 05:46:37 am
I wouldn't mind seeing the war that Yukari launched against the moon a thousand years ago be addressed. It's such a prime opportunity for some more info on it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sagus on May 24, 2015, 02:57:28 pm
Suika already did that in Immaterial and Missing Power, so I don't know how unique that would be.
Suika manipulates density, not gravity.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Gamer251 on May 24, 2015, 03:18:22 pm
Yo guys, I have been thinking about this for awhile and I was wondering if anybody else may have noticed this as well.

From the trial version that we have so far, is anybody noticing a distinct food motif with this game?

For example, Seiran was pounding mochi when the heroine ambushed her. Ringo's ability is literally growing stronger from eating dango and is eating all the way through the battle. Doremy seems to be all about eating dreams, since she is a baku.

I haven't played the trial version yet since I'm waiting for the full release, but has there been any mention of food in spellcards or anything in the stages that hints of food?

It will be interesting to see if this leads to something in the full game.  :munch:

Ringo's spell cards involve Dango, except for her last one~
And her power is "to be strong enough to eat Dango" or something like that.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: cuc on May 24, 2015, 03:28:26 pm
Yes there is. The difficulty levels are described using how much effort it takes to chew them.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 24, 2015, 11:52:08 pm
Quote
Suika manipulates density, not gravity.

It doesn't look like Suika only manipulates density, seems more like mass and density to me. And that affects gravity. Unless you ignore physics, mass manipulation and gravity are pretty much the same thing. You can see her creating miniature black holes in the fighting games.

Quote
For example, Seiran was pounding mochi when the heroine ambushed her. Ringo's ability is literally growing stronger from eating dango and is eating all the way through the battle. Doremy seems to be all about eating dreams, since she is a baku.

I haven't played the trial version yet since I'm waiting for the full release, but has there been any mention of food in spellcards or anything in the stages that hints of food?

That's pretty interesting. This seems like a parallel to Yuyuko's route in Imperishable Night.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 25, 2015, 02:09:05 am
And, of course, if this game has anything to do with the Hourai Elixir, well, that's something that gets imbibed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ChronaSE on May 25, 2015, 04:23:04 am
Surprised no one mentioned how great the events of th15 would fit the plot of KoishiKHTA.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 25, 2015, 06:54:48 am
Surprised no one mentioned how great the events of th15 would fit the plot of KoishiKHTA.

Ringo: My hat is my friend, it helps me relax. I can use it to store my dango without having to worry about it getting pinched by a passing hungry youkai (or a certain witch)! Mg mg!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 25, 2015, 08:36:57 am
It doesn't look like Suika only manipulates density, seems more like mass and density to me. And that affects gravity. Unless you ignore physics, mass manipulation and gravity are pretty much the same thing. You can see her creating miniature black holes in the fighting games.

I feel like that's a more practical aspect way of looking at it rather than how it would work in an actual danmaku game. (Then again, Suika hasn't been in a main game and we won't see her in one, most likely) I more had the thought Tengukami had, or the same but just with the bullets.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Gamer251 on May 25, 2015, 12:00:10 pm
Yes there is. The difficulty levels are described using how much effort it takes to chew them.

I'm curious, so what do the difficulties say?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 25, 2015, 04:09:50 pm
From thcrap translation:

Easy
Well, this should take just one bite.
Normal
Firm and crunchy.
Hard
Your jaw will get tired from chewing this.
Lunatic
Please do not eat.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 25, 2015, 04:11:36 pm
Lunatic
Please do not eat.
but some already have

rip in pepperoni lunatic players /s
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Rei on May 25, 2015, 04:25:14 pm
It doesn't look like Suika only manipulates density, seems more like mass and density to me. And that affects gravity. Unless you ignore physics, mass manipulation and gravity are pretty much the same thing. You can see her creating miniature black holes in the fighting games.

Well, to be exact, her ability is only density manipulation (gather/disperse things). It can be used to create a suction force of some sort, but it cannot change how gravity operates on other things. It really depends on how you define "gravity manipulation", though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 25, 2015, 06:31:59 pm
It doesn't look like Suika only manipulates density, seems more like mass and density to me. And that affects gravity. Unless you ignore physics, mass manipulation and gravity are pretty much the same thing. You can see her creating miniature black holes in the fighting games.

Density is just the ratio between mass and volume, so control of density automatically covers mass anyway.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 25, 2015, 07:19:07 pm
Remind me, what was the point of this extended sidebar about the nature of density, mass and gravity again?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Valar on May 25, 2015, 07:40:56 pm
Remind me, what was the point of this extended sidebar about the nature of density, mass and gravity again?

... An evil thought just occured to me. Because every stage 5 boss has an unique gimmick, I just got an idea that maybe we're going to get Gravity Manipulation (with being on the Moon and all). Sounds scary.

XD
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on May 26, 2015, 12:42:55 pm
I wonder if you will have some dialogue with Yuuka, since dream world is kind of her thing and she is a current Windows character.

Yeah, I don't think you are fighting Amaterasu.

Amaterasu is actually somewhat likely if you know the history between her and her brother, a simple change from never wanting to see him again to wanting to ruin his paradise sounds pretty fitting.

Yuuka was simply the Youkai who lived there and as far as we know she doesn't live there anymore,but that doesn't exclude Elly and Kurumi, but they shouldn't really care about anything going on.
If anyone from the dream world is relevant it would probably be the sisters, I'd like to see some clarity on the whole dream world management thing.



Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 26, 2015, 02:18:12 pm
Amaterasu is actually somewhat likely if you know the history between her and her brother, a simple change from never wanting to see him again to wanting to ruin his paradise sounds pretty fitting.

I think it's pretty unlikely though, simply because Touhou likes to keep the scale relatively low. Think about Utsuho. She's "the power of the sun" and is all super impressive and all that, but ultimately she's just borrowing a bit of power from one of Amaterasu's servants. Touhou just doesn't deal directly with most of the really big names in Japanese mythology, and frankly that feels intentional to me. We get a ninetailed fox, but not Tamano no Mae herself. We get the descendent of Issun-boushi. There are some big names like Ibuki, but she's shown as an incredibly dangerous person who we're only safe from because she doesn't feel like it. Kaguya is sort of an exception, but Tsukuyomi himself (herself?) is deliberate kept in the background of the whole moon saga.

The biggest god we've met personally would Omoikane (Eirin), but she's both hiding behind a pseudonym and holding back out of respect, with the implication that she could accomplish way more if she actually had a goal other than maintaining the status quo. Having Amaterasu herself getting involved just seems like it would be way out of our protagonists' league and not a very Touhou-like story. Recall that Yorihime is considered ridiculously overpowered, and her power is just to briefly channel the power of better gods.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on May 26, 2015, 02:25:19 pm
Easy
Well, this should take just one bite.
Normal
Firm and crunchy.
Hard
Your jaw will get tired from chewing this.
Lunatic
Please do not eat.
I'm now convinced that one of the bosses is a personified mochi.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on May 26, 2015, 07:46:43 pm
I think it's pretty unlikely though, simply because Touhou likes to keep the scale relatively low. Think about Utsuho. She's "the power of the sun" and is all super impressive and all that, but ultimately she's just borrowing a bit of power from one of Amaterasu's servants. Touhou just doesn't deal directly with most of the really big names in Japanese mythology, and frankly that feels intentional to me. We get a ninetailed fox, but not Tamano no Mae herself. We get the descendent of Issun-boushi. There are some big names like Ibuki, but she's shown as an incredibly dangerous person who we're only safe from because she doesn't feel like it. Kaguya is sort of an exception, but Tsukuyomi himself (herself?) is deliberate kept in the background of the whole moon saga.

The biggest god we've met personally would Omoikane (Eirin), but she's both hiding behind a pseudonym and holding back out of respect, with the implication that she could accomplish way more if she actually had a goal other than maintaining the status quo. Having Amaterasu herself getting involved just seems like it would be way out of our protagonists' league and not a very Touhou-like story. Recall that Yorihime is considered ridiculously overpowered, and her power is just to briefly channel the power of better gods.

Hence why the stakes are higher in this game overall.
Also why the game has that feel of a pc98 game, the protags are actually in danger here.
Yorihime is considered overpowered not simply because she can channel better gods, it's because she's skilled at it and can use it to adapt to situations that seem impossible, right along with her own personal skills in swordsmanship which is very impressive.

Utsuho was never really any danger in the first place. She wouldn't have made it out of hell IIRC.

I don't see how fighting Amaterasu is any different from fighting Shinki, who may or may not be based on Lucifer.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 27, 2015, 02:31:41 am
Quote
I'm now convinced that one of the bosses is a personified mochi.

ZUN has been serving us a few fish dishes as of late (that giant catfish, Wakasagihime). Chowing down on some desert sounds appealing to clean the palate.

By the way, inB4 stage 4 or 5 boss is eating the moons peaches... because this food theme is really starting to sound like a thing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on May 27, 2015, 03:06:56 am
I don't see how fighting Amaterasu is any different from fighting Shinki, who may or may not be based on Lucifer.

The PC-98 games were made before ZUN had even started thinking about the setting. For example, there wasn't a place called "Gensokyo" yet. Setting aside the discussion of whether they're canon at all, or subcanon or whatever, the way ZUN did things back then is quite simply not the way he does things now. If we're revisiting PC-98 locations and themes, the purpose of that is to flesh them out and better integrate them into the modern idea of Gensokyo, not to blindly follow the nonsense he wrote for the older games.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on May 27, 2015, 03:17:16 am
By the way, inB4 stage 4 or 5 boss is eating the moons peaches... because this food theme is really starting to sound like a thing.
Indeed. Because the Lunar Capital is similar to ancient China, we might get moon cakes too. Then, at the end, everyone drinks Lunarian sake.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on May 27, 2015, 04:04:56 am
The PC-98 games were made before ZUN had even started thinking about the setting. For example, there wasn't a place called "Gensokyo" yet.
Touhou 4's Japanese subtitle is called "Gensokyo," though I'm not sure if that is intentional...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on May 27, 2015, 04:16:44 am
The PC-98 games were made before ZUN had even started thinking about the setting. For example, there wasn't a place called "Gensokyo" yet. Setting aside the discussion of whether they're canon at all, or subcanon or whatever, the way ZUN did things back then is quite simply not the way he does things now. If we're revisiting PC-98 locations and themes, the purpose of that is to flesh them out and better integrate them into the modern idea of Gensokyo, not to blindly follow the nonsense he wrote for the older games.

Still, doesn't really counter the idea of Amaterasu, god fought in a lethal environment was kinda the point of that example.
Who's to say Amaterasu is supposed to be leagues above? Because she's famous? I mean ZUN could make her boss fight be pretty hard, sure.
But that just makes things fun.
Either way though, point device is literal plot armor, so her being leagues about the main protags shouldn't matter much.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 27, 2015, 04:30:09 am
Touhou 4's Japanese subtitle is called "Gensokyo," though I'm not sure if that is intentional...
I think it's much more likely that he recycled the name later because he liked it. He still used "deep in the mountains in a certain eastern country" at that point.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 27, 2015, 04:34:44 am
By the way, inB4 stage 4 or 5 boss is eating the moons peaches... because this food theme is really starting to sound like a thing.

In the end, we all know that that was the final boss's true goal. Just to get all the peaches for herself.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 27, 2015, 05:54:14 am
Quote
Still, doesn't really counter the idea of Amaterasu, god fought in a lethal environment was kinda the point of that example.
Who's to say Amaterasu is supposed to be leagues above? Because she's famous? I mean ZUN could make her boss fight be pretty hard, sure.

It is mainly because she is the ultimate god as far as Japanese religion is concerned. I doubt someone so prolific would be a Touhou enemy. It is far more likely to be Tsukuyomi than it is for Amaterasu to make an appearance.
Unlike the likes of Shinki or Sariel, which isn't Japan's main religion, this is.
The best example I can think of using Christianity as example, since that would be the main religion for a lot of English speakers, is the touhou character would be facing God.

It could theoretically happen, but yeah, I highly doubt it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on May 27, 2015, 06:28:19 am
It is mainly because she is the ultimate god as far as Japanese religion is concerned. I doubt someone so prolific would be a Touhou enemy. It is far more likely to be Tsukuyomi than it is for Amaterasu to make an appearance.
Unlike the likes of Shinki or Sariel, which isn't Japan's main religion, this is.
The best example I can think of using Christianity as example, since that would be the main religion for a lot of English speakers, is the touhou character would be facing God.

It could theoretically happen, but yeah, I highly doubt it.

Not necessarily.
Amaterasu as far as I understand became that "ultimate god" over time, I could be wrong about this.
But judging from what we do know about her now, this is likely the time period where she shares the skies with her brother.
She does all that fancy stuff after this.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 27, 2015, 11:17:23 am
It is mainly because she is the ultimate god as far as Japanese religion is concerned. I doubt someone so prolific would be a Touhou enemy. It is far more likely to be Tsukuyomi than it is for Amaterasu to make an appearance.
Unlike the likes of Shinki or Sariel, which isn't Japan's main religion, this is.
The best example I can think of using Christianity as example, since that would be the main religion for a lot of English speakers, is the touhou character would be facing God.

It could theoretically happen, but yeah, I highly doubt it.

Isn't Tenshi sort of like God though?



Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on May 27, 2015, 11:40:21 am
Isn't Tenshi sort of like God though?
Celestials aren't gods, they are some kind of super-pure hermits with no attachment to desires that get to live in Heaven.
Tenshi didn't even earn it, not even Gensokyo is immune to nepotism.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 27, 2015, 12:13:20 pm
Yeah, Tenshi is pretty much a textbook spoiled rich brat. More like Paris Hilton than a deity of any kind.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 27, 2015, 04:23:46 pm
Tenshi is an angel.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on May 27, 2015, 04:45:38 pm
Yeah, Tenshi is pretty much a textbook spoiled rich brat. More like Paris Hilton than a deity of any kind.
Ammy NO! My image of Chiko you just ruined with 1 name  :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on May 27, 2015, 05:32:45 pm
Tenshi is an angel.
Not the "angel" depicted in christianism, but more like a "heaven person" to be precise.

Unlike the good people who deserved their place "up there", her whole clan got sent straight up to heavens for all of the hard work they did, so as a human who became a celestial out of the blue, she doesn't have the same discipline that the hermits who managed to get in there and the people who got there through their good deeds have. Let's just say she got there through family connections, and is obviously not very pleased with her lifestyle. Maybe she is just in her rebellious phase.

More like Paris Hil-
No.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 27, 2015, 06:57:41 pm
My post was more or less a joke (about her name), but yeah, even officially she's referred to as "fallen" celestial.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 27, 2015, 07:55:19 pm
Speaking of Heaven, if Heaven is above the clouds, then why don't the heroines need to go through Heaven to go to the Moon? In Tenshi's Last Word, you can clearly see space.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Prime32 on May 27, 2015, 11:55:01 pm
Bhava-agra isn't above the clouds, it's at the summit of the world. Metaphorically speaking. So in a land of metaphors, you can get there by climbing an actual mountain I guess.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 27, 2015, 11:58:16 pm
Bhava-agra isn't above the clouds, it's at the summit of the world. Metaphorically speaking. So in a land of metaphors, you can get there by climbing an actual mountain I guess.

So the Youkai Mountain's summit is basically metaphorically speaking a portal to Heaven?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2015, 01:54:09 am
Might be stretching the metaphor a little thin. And I think Kanako might have something to say about that before you get there.

e: And sorry, Tenshi fans, if the comparison to Paris Hilton rubs you the wrong way, but however jokingly it was intended there's some truth to it, insofar as both only got to a point of luxury thanks to family. And then proceeded to spread ruin in their wakes out of sheer boredom. Tenshi is the 1%, deal w/ it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on May 28, 2015, 04:00:41 am
Eh? That's not a good metaphor. The people in heaven aren't exactly good guys either. It seems fairly clear that they look down upon Tenshi because of how she got there.
Their attitude is more like Lunarians, they look down on people below them. In Tenshi's case, she doesn't understand this.

The better analogy would be, Tenshi's part of the 1%, but doesn't understand the rules or ways of the 1%. That isn't necessarily a good or a bad thing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 28, 2015, 07:49:44 am
I got no opinion of her fellow celestials. I'm saying she's spoiled, entitled, and made life hard for everyone else out of boredom. Last time this was brought up people actually cited this as part of her charm. You don't have to take this super literally.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: LunaWillow on May 28, 2015, 04:48:20 pm
I'm saying she's spoiled, entitled, and made life hard for everyone else out of boredom.
Welp, she is, I guess, but I don't think this is only because she got goods without effort, but also because she is more or less a teenager. I'm a teenager, and I have my "spoiled brat" moments from time to time when I tend to act like jerk to people for no good reason (or for something trivial). Thus, she does that because "lol, screwing with people is funny", which is very common for teenagers.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: OtakuGray on May 28, 2015, 07:57:31 pm
ZUN has been serving us a few fish dishes as of late (that giant catfish, Wakasagihime). Chowing down on some desert sounds appealing to clean the palate.

By the way, inB4 stage 4 or 5 boss is eating the moons peaches... because this food theme is really starting to sound like a thing.

I guess ZUN has been really hungry while making games lately... Please Eat More ZUN!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on May 29, 2015, 04:54:57 am
Quote
I guess ZUN has been really hungry while making games lately... Please Eat More ZUN!

Yeeaaap! ZUN is a pretty skinny man if you have seen pictures of him. Think of all the work he must put into making those games, coding the danmaku and perfecting it, drawing the characters, designing, fixing the bugs etc. Sitting on a chair all that time, how douse he NOT put on weight?

At least we can have confidence that he will never go thristy!  :P
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Arcorann on May 29, 2015, 02:59:36 pm
Remember how Drake gave that deep explanation for why Reisen's species was listed as Human? Well, sometimes, an error is just an error. (https://twitter.com/DraculaStoker/status/603923714921504768)

The other LoLK-relevant point I noticed was that ZUN noted he might not be able to finish before Summer Comiket. If this actually happens, it would be the first time he released a trial and didn't provide the full game by the next Summer Comiket.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 29, 2015, 10:31:31 pm
Yup I noticed that earlier this morning, oh well. I stand by my reasoning and note that I've always acknowledged the possibility of error!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on May 29, 2015, 11:49:20 pm
So, just to clarify: Reisen's profile should have her listed as a moon rabbit instead of human? That's somewhat of a bummer - it opened a can of interresting implications, so even if it was an error, I assumed ZUN would just run with it  :V. Not to mention it perfectly complemented her dialogue with Doremy about her adaptation (although the dialogue itself and the implications still stand).

As for the risk of ZUN not completing the game... That makes me worry both for the final version that might end up either rushed or released with a huge delay and for ZUN himself, as he might just overwork himself to meet the deadline  :ohdear:.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on May 30, 2015, 12:17:22 am
So, just to clarify: Reisen's profile should have her listed as a moon rabbit instead of human? That's somewhat of a bummer - it opened a can of interresting implications, so even if it was an error, I assumed ZUN would just run with it  :V. Not to mention it perfectly complemented her dialogue with Doremy about her adaptation (although the dialogue itself and the implications still stand).

As for the risk of ZUN not completing the game... That makes me worry both for the final version that might end up either rushed or released with a huge delay and for ZUN himself, as he might just overwork himself to meet the deadline  :ohdear:.

I'm actually kinda happy things went that way.

I always find it fun when people who look for patterns are shut down.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on May 30, 2015, 01:00:45 am
To be clear, the only mistake here is the actual usage of "human" in the profile. The connections back to CiLR about Reisen's development and attachment to the Earth, with her coverage in FS and her decision to protect the Earth and fighting off her comrades etc, are still very much there. It isn't as if all that doesn't exist just because this was a typo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on May 30, 2015, 01:24:01 am
What if the reason for Zun taking longer to finish this game is for some other reasons?  Since this time the plot's a bit deeper what if we had a Phantasm stage on the works?  :]

Would certainly be something worth the wait!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on May 30, 2015, 01:29:42 am
I suspect parenthood is also playing a role in things. It's not like fatherhood is smooth sailing all the time - there are easier and rougher patches. Surely not the only factor in this game project taking more time than he planned, but I'd be surprised if it weren't contributing to a lack of free time, either.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 30, 2015, 08:16:04 am
Somebody help? I can't stop listening to Doremy Sweet's theme.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: OtakuGray on May 30, 2015, 08:40:33 pm
Somebody help? I can't stop listening to Doremy Sweet's theme.
Any awesome arranges of her song yet? I know Komeiji Records has done Seiran's theme. I'm not sure which song out of the 3 I like the most, but Doremy's is definitely addicting.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on May 30, 2015, 09:52:54 pm
Doremy's is a masterpiece, something about Seiran's is extremelly addicting as well, i get a desert like vibe from Ringo's theme. Love them all <3
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on May 31, 2015, 01:09:00 am
There's something about these new character addictions that just makes me want a manga where each chapter focuses on a completely different character.
Sorta like a side story thing.
I really do want to know more about Seiran and Ringo's corps and their uh, "operations".
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on June 02, 2015, 07:49:00 am
Quote
If this actually happens, it would be the first time he released a trial and didn't provide the full game by the next Summer Comiket.

DON'T RUSH IT ZUN!!!

The last thing Touhou needs is an Assassin's Creed Unity like entry that will forever be mocked and scorned. This has the potential to be a great game and I would hate to see it become "that" game in the Touhou series due to rushing.

Wasn't LoLK's trial version buggier than previous trial versions? You know... Marisa's 360 spinning master spark?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on June 02, 2015, 02:47:35 pm
You know... Marisa's 360 spinning master spark?
xXx360-QUICKLASER-YOUKAIMASHER-HUMANMAGICICIAN-MLGPROxXx

Yep, that, and random flashes of red in the background. But then again, the Ultramarine Orb medicine has some side effects, so he handwaved those bugs.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on June 02, 2015, 09:50:49 pm
Hey guys... I just noticed something.
-The lotus on the title and little side bar thing is the same as the one that's in Byakuren's spell card background.
-Byakuren is the final boss of touhou 12 ~ Undefined Fantastic Object
-UFO's japanese name is touhou seirensen.

Seirensen. Seiren sen. Seiran.

Illuminati Mima Confirmed

I'm never going to stop making Mima jokes.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: OtakuGray on June 03, 2015, 04:18:24 am
Hey guys... I just noticed something.
-The lotus on the title and little side bar thing is the same as the one that's in Byakuren's spell card background.
-Byakuren is the final boss of touhou 12 ~ Undefined Fantastic Object
-UFO's japanese name is touhou seirensen.

Seirensen. Seiren sen. Seiran.

Illuminati Mima Confirmed

I'm never going to stop making Mima jokes.

Seiran
Ransei
Rainsei
Reisna
Reisan
Reisen
...

Mima is tots confirmed
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on June 04, 2015, 01:10:11 am
Is ZUN going to make changes over what we already saw in the demo, ie changes in the gameplay? Like rebalancing players/changing enemy formations/altering save points.
Reimu's needles not fully hitting the boss seriously bug me

Ransei
Ransei (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ransei)
Yukari fooling around again.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on June 04, 2015, 01:59:11 pm
Is ZUN going to make changes over what we already saw in the demo, ie changes in the gameplay? Like rebalancing players/changing enemy formations/altering save points.
Reimu's needles not fully hitting the boss seriously bug me
In the past, the stage 3 boss tends to get somewhat easier. We don't have precedent for a system like Pointdevice though, and he was rushing to finish it just barely in time to release the demo as it was.

Look at all these dorks complaining about having more range >:V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ZM on June 12, 2015, 11:48:40 pm
Digging the game so far, for the most part. Sanae's dialogue is solid, Hard/Lunatic modes fun patterns (albeit pretty insane in some areas), and I'm looking forward to the full release!

Hopefully ZUN tones down the brightness, though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on June 13, 2015, 05:01:45 pm
Just to ask, does ZUN ever tease official games before the release day? Like, does he show the cover of the game a few weeks beforehand or do we get no other info aside from the demo? Just wondering.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on June 13, 2015, 05:56:12 pm
Just to ask, does ZUN ever tease official games before the release day? Like, does he show the cover of the game a few weeks beforehand or do we get no other info aside from the demo? Just wondering.

Usually some time before their release he posts on his blog the game's jewel case with the final boss' silhouette but other than that that's it I guess. 
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on June 13, 2015, 06:15:41 pm
Um... last two games (ISC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2XZ1w-vvwI) and ULiL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-us2yE0s4)) got promotional videos before release, remember? This might well be ZUN's new standard.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on June 13, 2015, 08:31:15 pm
Isn't that, depending on the game, he releases a free trial downloable from his site? Depending on the game, the smaller ones like the photography ones or FW aren't included.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on June 14, 2015, 12:30:57 am
Um... last two games (ISC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2XZ1w-vvwI) and ULiL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-us2yE0s4)) got promotional videos before release, remember? This might well be ZUN's new standard.
ISC was more of ZUN's test run for PVs, and ISC didn't have a demo either. I don't think there's much use of a PV at this point when all such a thing would do is spoil the game. ULiL also would have been mainly Tasofro's decision, not solely ZUN's.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on June 14, 2015, 06:41:34 pm
Hey guys, I just realized something!

Marisa's image in this demo has her with a little crescent moon hanging on her chest near her buttons. Doesn't that remind you of Patchouli's crescent moon hat ornament on her mob cap?

...

Marisa stole the precious hat ornament!

Looks like she has been borrowing more than just books at the SDM library.  :]
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on June 14, 2015, 08:51:30 pm
Hey guys, I just realized something!

Marisa's image in this demo has her with a little crescent moon hanging on her chest near her buttons. Doesn't that remind you of Patchouli's crescent moon hat ornament on her mob cap?

...

Marisa stole the precious hat ornament!

Looks like she has been borrowing more than just books at the SDM library.  :]

Honestly, it reminded me a bit more of Mima's staff and the fact that she started off with star magic.
But interesting note.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Camilo113 on June 19, 2015, 11:50:41 pm
Since it's already confirmed (https://webcatalog-free.circle.ms/Circle/11929809) that Team Shanghai Alice will attend Comiket 88, does this mean LoLK will release at the event or he might have other things planned?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Marron on June 20, 2015, 09:46:46 am
Honestly, it reminded me a bit more of Mima's staff and the fact that she started off with star magic.
But interesting note.

Me too. It reminded me of her pc 98 self.(which I love so much. I don't care about Marisa windows but Marisa 98 is one of my favorite char of the serie)
I really loved when she used violet stars for normal shoot. :)

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ShaiaTheWolf on June 24, 2015, 04:58:04 pm
Somebody help? I can't stop listening to Doremy Sweet's theme.
Same. Her theme is precious.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on June 26, 2015, 10:34:10 pm
Quote
Marisa windows but Marisa 98 is one of my favorite char of the serie

Marisa is Marisa. The PC98 and windows Touhou follow the same timeline so its not like they are two different entities.

I have to admit though, Marisa's dialogue in the games as the series went on has gone from her being really playful and kooky to... not as playful and kooky.

I mean, in EoSD, Marisa's scenario, she was coy-fully saying to Patchouli that "I'm really delicious" and teasing Sakuya that she will be the head maid of SDM if she beats her (and playing along with the thing about her being a love doll, lol).

My favorite part of Marisa's dialogue comes from IN when she boldly said to Reimu "You're right. The endless night, that broken, warped moon, hiding the human village, and putting silly hats on the stone statues; all of it was Alice's fault. Now bitch, get outta the way!"

Totally badass.

I noticed around UFO that Marisa started to go "um", "huh" and "uh" alot more in her dialogue, and while she still had some cool moments, I didn't feel as thought they had Marisa's certain character to them like the earlier games did.

In DDC, Marisa B's scenario, Marisa stutters and goes "uh" like she has become more shy or something. I hope Marisa doesn't take things as seriously again in LoLK (this games douse sound pretty serious though).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on June 27, 2015, 12:32:36 am
Marisa's with Alice in Imperishable Night. They tend to do some sort of duo jokes.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Marron on June 27, 2015, 10:54:01 am
Not for me. Marisa isn't anymore the Marisa that have been trained by Mima, that have been malicious and sometime scary, and that really looked like a wizard. The one that had this trick to transform her broom into a plant, that could grow wings in PoDD. Everything about her is not the same anymore. Even if Window et 98 era were connected, that wouldn't change the fact that I think she became someone completly different.
She's a funny thief who uses magic, now, imo. But that's that. It's not these things about her that makes me like her.
I can't say I like Marisa in the windows even though I greatly appreciate her in the 98 era, that would be a lie, I don't feel they're the same.

In fact I don't really care if Zun says something about 98 era being connected with windows era, he's vague anyway, so I interpret things differently.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on June 27, 2015, 08:16:03 pm
Quote
In fact I don't really care if Zun says something about 98 era being connected with windows era, he's vague anyway, so I interpret things differently.

I'm pretty sure Zun never said anything like that.
In fact, PC 98 era is more than likely retconned by the windows era.

That said, for Marisa, I don't quite understand what is so different about the PC-98 Marisa compared to the Windows Marisa. PC-98 hardly has any character information, so you pretty much make up most of it. I don't quite see how she would be "different" when she isn't much of a character back in PC-98.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Marron on June 28, 2015, 10:45:14 am
It was more like "suppose Zun says that the window era and 98 era are connected", not really a "he said that" thing.

And as for how she would be different, simple: dialogue. She, Mima and Reimu appear at least three times in pc 98 era, where they say things. You can see their personnality by that. I think it's enough to make you an opinion about these characters. Of course, that won't be the case for Gengetsu, Luize or Meira. . .
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on June 28, 2015, 12:03:23 pm

As for the risk of ZUN not completing the game... That makes me worry both for the final version that might end up either rushed or released with a huge delay and for ZUN himself, as he might just overwork himself to meet the deadline  :ohdear:.
Going by the stage 1 theme comments, seems like that this time the game will be longer than usual (at least according to Google Translator). Maybe that's why there's delay or the risk of not ending in time.
I don't know if it only means the stages and boss battles are longer (and harder), but i'd be really happy if ZUN broke the 6+1 stages format and made it like 10 stages total, because this time the incident seems to be infinitely more dangerous than usual, and i almost feel that it would be reductive to put only 3 other bosses to end everything.

Also, for the Extra boss, maybe we'll fight the one who manipulated Sumireko? :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on June 28, 2015, 03:10:54 pm
Going by the stage 1 theme comments, seems like that this time the game will be longer than usual (at least according to Google Translator). Maybe that's why there's delay or the risk of not ending in time.
I don't know if it only means the stages and boss battles are longer (and harder), but i'd be really happy if ZUN broke the 6+1 stages format and made it like 10 stages total, because this time the incident seems to be infinitely more dangerous than usual, and i almost feel that it would be reductive to put only 3 other bosses to end everything.

Also, for the Extra boss, maybe we'll fight the one who manipulated Sumireko? :V
My guess is the manipulator of Sumireko is the causer of the incident, my best guess is that the manipulator will be the stage 6 boss. I certainly wonder what the relation between the manipulator and sumireko will be though, or if this means Sumireko will be a midboss to the manipulator's stage.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on June 28, 2015, 06:24:22 pm
Marisa in PC-98 seems more serious.  Come the windows series, she stole some chunks of Mima's personality or something.

(I personally like to think of it as Marisa adopting aspects of Mima's personality to fill the empty void left when her teacher/surrogate mother/whatever left or dissappeared or whatever.  I'd be pretty surprised if THAT were actually the case, though)

Hmm, if the game's gonna be longer, I wonder if that's because it'll have a phantasm stage or something. (maybe with Maribel as the phantasm boss, in which case Yukari hilariously could still technically be the only phantasm boss of the series depending on things)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on June 28, 2015, 07:42:08 pm
Well, I imagine it's more that the game is longer because of Pointdevice Mode mechanics. Doremy was a very long fight for a stage 3 boss, for example. Even in Legacy or with no death pointdevice! And, well, if you DO die in pointdevice, the length of course gets vastly longer.

edit:Well, if you die in pointdevice the music goes back too, so nevermind on that; but still, it seems like the game is going to be made longer longer in pointdevice (another thing that will make legacy extra difficult; there's more you have to get through, not to mention how hard it is!)
edit again:Okay, the stage music checkpoints; the boss music doesn't.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on June 28, 2015, 07:50:54 pm
Quote
And as for how she would be different, simple: dialogue. She, Mima and Reimu appear at least three times in pc 98 era, where they say things. You can see their personnality by that. I think it's enough to make you an opinion about these characters. Of course, that won't be the case for Gengetsu, Luize or Meira. . .

Sort of. Their characters are hardly fleshed out in the earlier series and continuity is iffy. I mean look at Nitori as an example, most people interpreted her personality incorrectly even though she appeared several times prior to Hopeless Masquerade and the comics.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on June 29, 2015, 01:33:31 am
I have a feeling that Point Device Extra will only have chapter ends right before the midboss, during the midboss, right after the midboss, and right before the Extra boss. Just to make a hellish game mode even more hellish.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on June 29, 2015, 02:39:47 am
Assuming Pointdevice is even going to be in Extra.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on June 29, 2015, 04:30:25 am
Just an angle that hasn't been pointed out before:

In the prologue, it says
Quote
When urban legends were manifesting in Gensokyo, a rumour started to spread that "Apollo never went to the Moon".

Maybe this particular urban legend (moon landing hoax) also manifested, and the invasion is the result of this alternative timeline.

The Lunarians likely took offence when humans started exploring beyond Earth (Mars, in this case), and took Curiosity as retaliation. And because Apollo landing in their backyard never happened---the event of which shook them and which they treated with much paranoia---they probably thought less of Earth's capabilities than if they (Apollo) had. In Touhou's timeline, this would mean only the Chang'e program occurred, and this was what ultimately set them off.

Kaguya and Eirin's conversation implies that they knew the invasion was a possibility. I'm guessing that the invasion was proposed before, but due to fear/reluctance/hesitation, it didn't fall through until now.

So, my thoughts on what happened:
- Perpetrator wants to invade the Earth, but due to the Apollo program, higher authorities were against it.
- Perpetrator manipulates Sumireko with the Lunar Capital power stone, and takes advantage of the existing faked moon landing conspiracy theory.
- Apollo never happened, and so the invasion was a go.

*Inserts remark about Moon stuffs being complicated, and curses insomnia.*
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on June 29, 2015, 06:57:15 pm
Just an angle that hasn't been pointed out before:

In the prologue, it says
Maybe this particular urban legend (moon landing hoax) also manifested, and the invasion is the result of this alternative timeline.

The Lunarians likely took offence when humans started exploring beyond Earth (Mars, in this case), and took Curiosity as retaliation. And because Apollo landing in their backyard never happened---the event of which shook them and which they treated with much paranoia---they probably thought less of Earth's capabilities than if they (Apollo) had. In Touhou's timeline, this would mean only the Chang'e program occurred, and this was what ultimately set them off.

Kaguya and Eirin's conversation implies that they knew the invasion was a possibility. I'm guessing that the invasion was proposed before, but due to fear/reluctance/hesitation, it didn't fall through until now.

So, my thoughts on what happened:
- Perpetrator wants to invade the Earth, but due to the Apollo program, higher authorities were against it.
- Perpetrator manipulates Sumireko with the Lunar Capital power stone, and takes advantage of the existing faked moon landing conspiracy theory.
- Apollo never happened, and so the invasion was a go.

*Inserts remark about Moon stuffs being complicated, and curses insomnia.*

100% sure Apollo actually happened, it was pretty much one of the major things in the manga, unless I'm not getting your point here.
A legend wouldn't make events suddenly not happen.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on June 29, 2015, 07:17:40 pm
100% sure Apollo actually happened, it was pretty much one of the major things in the manga, unless I'm not getting your point here.
A legend wouldn't make events suddenly not happen.
Well, maybe lunarians had their brain washed and now they actually believe humans never went to the Moon? Or the incident as a whole is just an illusion caused by the urban legend thing, showing "what would have happened if humans never went to the Moon"?
Both make some (little) sense, but it still wouldn't explain why lunarians would bother exterminating humans if they never went to the Moon. They are like millions of years old, if they wanted to remove us from existence, they could have done it long ago, and i doubt they were scared about humans considerating how they repelled an army youkai 1000 years before.

Also, any idea on why youkai "can't interfere to begin with"?
They are generally much more powerful than humans, and if humans get exterminated, youkai would be in trouble as well.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on June 29, 2015, 08:38:33 pm
Well, maybe lunarians had their brain washed and now they actually believe humans never went to the Moon? Or the incident as a whole is just an illusion caused by the urban legend thing, showing "what would have happened if humans never went to the Moon"?
Both make some (little) sense, but it still wouldn't explain why lunarians would bother exterminating humans if they never went to the Moon. They are like millions of years old, if they wanted to remove us from existence, they could have done it long ago, and i doubt they were scared about humans considerating how they repelled an army youkai 1000 years before.

Also, any idea on why youkai "can't interfere to begin with"?
They are generally much more powerful than humans, and if humans get exterminated, youkai would be in trouble as well.

Dunno, maybe it's because of the rules they have in place,
If destructive Youkai join in on a non spell-card incident, it could very well transform the incident into a completely different situation.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on June 29, 2015, 09:10:12 pm
Also, any idea on why youkai "can't interfere to begin with"?
They are generally much more powerful than humans, and if humans get exterminated, youkai would be in trouble as well.
I don't know either, but maybe the fact that youkai were created by the Lunarians (or by the Moon's dim light, at least) has something to do with it?



Whoops, sorry I didn't respond to this:
100% sure Apollo actually happened, it was pretty much one of the major things in the manga, unless I'm not getting your point here.
A legend wouldn't make events suddenly not happen.
PK wrapped it up nicely:
[...] The incident as a whole is just an illusion caused by the urban legend thing, showing "what would have happened if humans never went to the Moon" [...]



I also found this snippet from CiLR's seventh chapter:
Quote
The Soyuz spacecraft. After the end of the Apollo program, any further plans to reach the moon also became nothing more than fantasy. However, rockets used for the Soyuz spacecraft was said to have been even more technologically advanced than the rockets used in the Apollo program. If it had reached the moon before the Apollo program, it might have had a significant effect on history.
May not be relevant (the significant effect may just well be that the Soviet Union reached the moon first), but it's an acknowledgement of the impact if Apollo never occurred the way it did.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on June 30, 2015, 01:15:11 am
I don't know either, but maybe the fact that youkai were created by the Lunarians (or by the Moon's dim light, at least) has something to do with it?



Whoops, sorry I didn't respond to this:PK wrapped it up nicely:


I also found this snippet from CiLR's seventh chapter:May not be relevant (the significant effect may just well be that the Soviet Union reached the moon first), but it's an acknowledgement of the impact if Apollo never occurred the way it did.

That doesn't explain the American flag though.
Which once again, Urban legends shouldn't have the ability to erase actual history, it kinda goes against what has been established for them.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on June 30, 2015, 04:38:51 am
Quote
100% sure Apollo actually happened, it was pretty much one of the major things in the manga, unless I'm not getting your point here.
A legend wouldn't make events suddenly not happen.

Well, parallel timelines is a thing, Kaguya can manipulate it. So maybe someone else has some similar powers.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on July 02, 2015, 01:38:42 pm
Oh god, if the fan theories here actually are what LoLK is built around then this entry in the series will make Touhou more convoluted as a whole than the ending to Evangelion!

I really wish that ZUN would focus more on building up the lore of Gensokyo instead of the Luna capital and Gensokyo together. Some parts of SSiB had me quite lost at times.  ???

By the way, douse anybody have news or little snippets about how the development of LoLK is going? Something from ZUN's twitter or blog? Announcements at public events? Leaks?... rumors? (lol)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on July 02, 2015, 04:00:28 pm
I doubt the mastermind manipulated Sumireko in particular, otherwise she would have spilled the beans when the rest of Gensokyo scared her for life and tied her down. Unless all we know about her so far is bullshit and facade and she's actually in cahoots with Lunarians - but I can't picture ZUN going for that kind of twist  :V.

I still really want her involved though for meta reasons - it feels like ZUN gives too much emphasis on gameplay when picking playables as opposed to story potential as of late. First, an entire faction (the Moriya Trio) is missing from a religous war themed game, then Sakuya just convieniently finds a tsukumogami object to participate in DDC to have an excuse for her to return (as opposed to someone who already has a weapon to match Reimu and Marisa's situation), then Sanae sits out on the one incident she would never miss (hunt for outside world urban legend occult balls) AND misses an opportunity to meet a fellow Outside World girl and confront each others' viewpoints on OW and Gensokyo (in addition, Remilia is another person I just can't picture ignoring the urban legend crisis), and finally Sakuya is NOT involved in a game that has Eirin finally take an active stance again and would be a perfect opportunity to shine light on Sakuya's past. I want Sumireko and Sakuya to appear in LoLK as bosses if nothing else, so the mangas wouldn't have to make up for all of those missed plot opportunities at least.

As for the parallel realities theory, I can't see neither ZUN pulling something like that out nor Curiosity being any more of a potential scare for lunarians than Apollo. I'm trying to rack my brain for the reason of why Hiriji (http://i.imgur.com/kaKy8rI.jpg) would be involved though - the UFO motif and her finding the balls dangerous in ULiL don't really amount to anything.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on July 02, 2015, 04:30:40 pm
I doubt the mastermind manipulated Sumireko in particular, otherwise she would have spilled the beans when the rest of Gensokyo scared her for life and tied her down. Unless all we know about her so far is bullshit and facade and she's actually in cahoots with Lunarians - but I can't picture ZUN going for that kind of twist  :V.

I still really want her involved though for meta reasons - it feels like ZUN gives too much emphasis on gameplay when picking playables as opposed to story potential as of late. First, an entire faction (the Moriya Trio) is missing from a religous war themed game, then Sakuya just convieniently finds a tsukumogami object to participate in DDC to have an excuse for her to return (as opposed to someone who already has a weapon to match Reimu and Marisa's situation), then Sanae sits out on the one incident she would never miss (hunt for outside world urban legend occult balls) AND misses an opportunity to meet a fellow Outside World girl and confront each others' viewpoints on OW and Gensokyo (in addition, Remilia is another person I just can't picture ignoring the urban legend crisis), and finally Sakuya is NOT involved in a game that has Eirin finally take an active stance again and would be a perfect opportunity to shine light on Sakuya's past. I want Sumireko and Sakuya to appear in LoLK as bosses if nothing else, so the mangas wouldn't have to make up for all of those missed plot opportunities at least.

As for the parallel realities theory, I can't see neither ZUN pulling something like that out nor Curiosity being any more of a potential scare for lunarians than Apollo. I'm trying to rack my brain for the reason of why Hiriji (http://i.imgur.com/kaKy8rI.jpg) would be involved though - the UFO motif and her finding the balls dangerous in ULiL don't really amount to anything.

For some reason, I'd find it funny if her brother or another member of her "clan" was behind this all along.

Though I do understand why that's most likely imposable for the reason of him being dead and no other family confirmed, but it is interesting.
Now that I think about it, what are the possibility of it being a ghost or a phantom? They're pure enough to sneak around on the moon and possibly cause chaos unnoticed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on July 02, 2015, 07:23:59 pm
I doubt the mastermind manipulated Sumireko in particular, otherwise she would have spilled the beans when the rest of Gensokyo scared her for life and tied her down. Unless all we know about her so far is bullshit and facade and she's actually in cahoots with Lunarians - but I can't picture ZUN going for that kind of twist  :V.

Wait, "manipulated" doesn't mean she agreed with it, or even knew about it. What we know is that for some reason the lunarian occult ball was mixed with Sumireko's balls, and the one who did it probably expected someone to activate the lunar ball.

Now that I think about it, what are the possibility of it being a ghost or a phantom? They're pure enough to sneak around on the moon and possibly cause chaos unnoticed.
Well, if the occult ball comes from the Moon, that ghost or phantom must have had a way to reach it.
If it's indeed someone from the earth, maybe it's caused by Yukari going YOLO that decided to play another prank to the lunarians, or Toyohime having some reason to cooperate with earthlings.
At the very least, i hope ZUN refrained from putting yet another one capable of traveling from the Moon to the Earth like Yukari and Toyohime, because it's partially what makes those two unique.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on July 02, 2015, 08:01:03 pm
Quote
and finally Sakuya is NOT involved in a game that has Eirin finally take an active stance again and would be a perfect opportunity to shine light on Sakuya's past

Um... how exactly are Eirin and Sakuya related again? Has it been hinted before that Sakuya's past has Eirin linked to it?

I get the feeling that ZUN doesn't like to bother himself with character back-stories that much. I mean, Reimu and Marisa, two of the most prominent characters in Touhou, their back-stories are vague at best. Yes, we learn about what they get up to in the present like with stories in CoLA but back-stories of the characters... little hints.  :V

I would love to know more about Reimu and Marisa's upbringing from when they were younger and what that would have looked like in Gensokyo... but ZUN goes on record in interviews to say that he prefers to make new characters instead of building on existing ones (lol, no windows Mima for you, Mima worshippers!  :derp:).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on July 02, 2015, 08:12:00 pm
Wait, "manipulated" doesn't mean she agreed with it, or even knew about it. What we know is that for some reason the lunarian occult ball was mixed with Sumireko's balls, and the one who did it probably expected someone to activate the lunar ball. Well, if the occult ball comes from the Moon, that ghost or phantom must have had a way to reach it.
If it's indeed someone from the earth, maybe it's caused by Yukari going YOLO that decided to play another prank to the lunarians, or Toyohime having some reason to cooperate with earthlings.
At the very least, i hope ZUN refrained from putting yet another one capable of traveling from the Moon to the Earth like Yukari and Toyohime, because it's partially what makes those two unique.


Well, CiLR already said that she wasn't unique in her ability to go between the two, but she did say very few could do the same,
though the way the line is worded makes it look like it's a trained/earned skill or something.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on July 02, 2015, 09:24:40 pm
Wait, "manipulated" doesn't mean she agreed with it, or even knew about it. What we know is that for some reason the lunarian occult ball was mixed with Sumireko's balls, and the one who did it probably expected someone to activate the lunar ball. Well, if the occult ball comes from the Moon, that ghost or phantom must have had a way to reach it.
If it's indeed someone from the earth, maybe it's caused by Yukari going YOLO that decided to play another prank to the lunarians, or Toyohime having some reason to cooperate with earthlings.
Indeed, which is what I meant by not manipulating Sumireko in particular - the creator of the balls propably didn't even know her either, otherwise Sumireko would have mentioned another person being involved when she was under pressure (regardless of whether Sumireko knew or agreed with said person's plans). And the only person who could possibly swap the ball by the time it was already in Sumireko's possession for a lunar one without her noticing (Mamizou's tanuki ball nonwithstanding) would be Yukari with her teleport powers (and she's certainly not "the lunatic from the moon who made the Lunar Capital impure") or maybe Toyohime. Still, swapping a ball already in Sumi's possession is not really an option either as Sumireko certainly would notice a ball having been swapped right away, as she knew the difference between the Lunar Capital ball and the other ones (which is why she opted for her suicidal last-ditch plan to begin with), but she likely has no idea about their origin.

So it's not much of a *manipulation* per se, although I do wonder how did the Lunar Capital ball ended up being mixed among the others - the mastermind would have to have huge influence here on earth to have spies that either investigated the other balls for her and told her of a perfect opportunity to mix one trap ball of her own *or* give her a detailed report on the concept of Outside World urban legends (in case the mastermind created ALL of the balls). That or maybe the Lunar Capital ball is the original one and someone else based the design of the other balls on the Lunar Capital ball (that the lunar mastermind dropped) - which would indicate 2 separate plans of 2 separate people and yet seems quite plausible.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on July 03, 2015, 05:03:08 am
Um... how exactly are Eirin and Sakuya related again? Has it been hinted before that Sakuya's past has Eirin linked to it?

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Eirin_Yagokoro

Expand her Omperishable Night profile.

Quote from: Eirin's Profile
"Eirin is very surprised to see Sakuya, but only Eirin knows the reason why."

The fact that ZUN included "only Eirin knows the reason why" would imply it's something important, most likely.  And yet years later despite being teased with this, it was never expanded upon.

The only other interaction the two had besides Imperishable Night was Inaba of the Moon and the Earth where the two angrily glared at each other, with Reisen commenting there was a lot of tension, and... that's it.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Starxsword on July 03, 2015, 07:19:29 am
Quote
As for the parallel realities theory, I can't see neither ZUN pulling something like that out nor Curiosity being any more of a potential scare for lunarians than Apollo. I'm trying to rack my brain for the reason of why Hiriji would be involved though - the UFO motif and her finding the balls dangerous in ULiL don't really amount to anything.

Zun did Seihou sometime... Also, Touhou 3, Phantasmagoria of Dim Dream, alternate endings in Ten Desires. So, I don't quite see how parallel timelines is all that out of this world.

Quote
Well, if the occult ball comes from the Moon, that ghost or phantom must have had a way to reach it.
If it's indeed someone from the earth, maybe it's caused by Yukari going YOLO that decided to play another prank to the lunarians, or Toyohime having some reason to cooperate with earthlings.
At the very least, i hope ZUN refrained from putting yet another one capable of traveling from the Moon to the Earth like Yukari and Toyohime, because it's partially what makes those two unique.

Yukari never goes YOLO (You Only Live Once). It just isn't in her personality. She is similar to Eirin in this way. They both plan things, YOLO is not for them. Remilia would go YOLO, but not Yukari.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Reu on July 03, 2015, 05:33:38 pm
Zun did Seihou sometime... Also, Touhou 3, Phantasmagoria of Dim Dream, alternate endings in Ten Desires. So, I don't quite see how parallel timelines is all that out of this world.

Yukari never goes YOLO (You Only Live Once). It just isn't in her personality. She is similar to Eirin in this way. They both plan things, YOLO is not for them. Remilia would go YOLO, but not Yukari.

Seihou if canon would be the outside world though, and Samidare didn't have anything to do with ZUN nor the Seihou crew, though maybe I'm missing something here.
PoDD was future related which isn't exactly the same case as parallel timelines.
Depending on the theory of course.


Personally, the whole from another timeline thing never really works well, I'd hate it if that's the case here.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on July 04, 2015, 12:02:04 am
Indeed, which is what I meant by not manipulating Sumireko in particular - the creator of the balls propably didn't even know her either, otherwise Sumireko would have mentioned another person being involved when she was under pressure (regardless of whether Sumireko knew or agreed with said person's plans). And the only person who could possibly swap the ball by the time it was already in Sumireko's possession for a lunar one without her noticing (Mamizou's tanuki ball nonwithstanding) would be Yukari with her teleport powers (and she's certainly not "the lunatic from the moon who made the Lunar Capital impure") or maybe Toyohime. Still, swapping a ball already in Sumi's possession is not really an option either as Sumireko certainly would notice a ball having been swapped right away, as she knew the difference between the Lunar Capital ball and the other ones (which is why she opted for her suicidal last-ditch plan to begin with), but she likely has no idea about their origin.

So it's not much of a *manipulation* per se, although I do wonder how did the Lunar Capital ball ended up being mixed among the others - the mastermind would have to have huge influence here on earth to have spies that either investigated the other balls for her and told her of a perfect opportunity to mix one trap ball of her own *or* give her a detailed report on the concept of Outside World urban legends (in case the mastermind created ALL of the balls). That or maybe the Lunar Capital ball is the original one and someone else based the design of the other balls on the Lunar Capital ball (that the lunar mastermind dropped) - which would indicate 2 separate plans of 2 separate people and yet seems quite plausible.

You seem to be making some weird assumptions about what "manipulation" means. There's definitely a middle ground between "she was in on it" and "they just dumped the orb somewhere and she happened to be the one who picked it up." More likely, they noticed that someone was gathering Occult Balls and created a fake ebay account or whatever just to sell it to her. Sumireko wouldn't think there was anything strange about that, and the mastermind would have a bit more control over the course of events.

Or maybe you were imagining a much weirder methodology for Sumireko gathering the orbs than I was.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: gilde on July 04, 2015, 12:57:58 am
Here's ZUN's circle cut for C88. (Apologies if this was already posted somewhere.)

(http://i.imgur.com/Jsevupi.jpg)

"Legacy passes into the future!"
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on July 04, 2015, 03:47:27 am
[...] the invasion is the result of this alternative timeline.
Days later and I finally understood where people got the parallel timelines idea. I fail at expressing myself. Apologies. *shakes head*

[...] an illusion caused by the urban legend thing [...]
My theory is more in line with the above. Not really a parallel timeline, per se.

I think the easiest way to explain my thoughts is to compare this urban legend effect as similar to, but not the same as, Keine's ability. Her power in human form doesn't actually erase history, but merely hides it. In a similar vein, the moon hoax coming true would just overshadow the events of Apollo, but not undo them.

Here's hoping I don't confuse or mislead people some more.

Speaking of Keine, she and Doremy are pretty similar, with the eating, creating and primary association with a mythical creature. Ooh, and the fact that they're both Stage 3 bosses too.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: NuclearFalcon on July 04, 2015, 05:42:48 am
Here's ZUN's circle cut for C88. (Apologies if this was already posted somewhere.)

"Legacy passes into the future!"

There is something in the center of that pic that my eyes want to perceive as a gap.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Clarste on July 04, 2015, 05:55:42 am
There is something in the center of that pic that my eyes want to perceive as a gap.

It's got Yukari's ribbons on the ends too.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on July 04, 2015, 06:18:42 am
Hehehe, the space invader fits.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: NuclearFalcon on July 04, 2015, 08:28:03 am
It's got Yukari's ribbons on the ends too.

Thank you for confirming it and making sure it was not just me WANTING to see a gap.  XD
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on July 04, 2015, 10:15:07 am
If Sumireko sent her occult balls in Gensokyo from time to time, maybe one of them got swapped with the lunar capital orb at some point in time inside of Gensokyo. Sudden rumors about the moon landing hoax suddenly spreading sound rather weird too, since only "someone" who knows of both the moon landing and the moon landing hoax could spread it. Maybe there is some kind of "third party" involved this time ? I mean, the lunar capital orb had to end in Gensokyo in one way or another or be brought there...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sssgth on July 04, 2015, 02:20:03 pm
Hehehe, the space invader fits.

Also, Tetris and... some spaceship.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: N-Forza on July 04, 2015, 02:34:30 pm
some spaceship.
I'm about 90% certain that's the Solvalou, the player ship from Xevious, which was basically the second huge shmup that caught on after Space Invaders.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Komeiji11 on July 05, 2015, 02:18:26 am
Wasn't Yukari the one who tried to invade the moon before? Maybe, since I'd assume she know about Sumireko trying to break into Gensokyo being the youkai of boundaries and all (or Maribel-Renko theories), she used that as a chance to switch the moon capital power stone to make travel there easier, someone caught wind of her scheme, and that set off this lunar invasion.

If something like that is the case then maybe this is ZUN's way of expanding on Yukari's backstory (rather than Sakuya's who I feel should be in the game somewhere...)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on July 05, 2015, 04:13:43 pm
The only way I can see Sakuya's backstory or anything about her being linked to this game is if one of the bosses has an ability similar to her, like speeding up time using some sort of watch-device. Something that would connect her to the lunarian theory would be neat.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on July 05, 2015, 04:49:59 pm
Without wanting to read too much into the circle cut, it does give you ideas. Like with Sumireko being from the present and Renko being somehow related from the future, and the Lunar Orb further being connected to that. The titular Ultramarine Orb (is that the same thing as the Lunar Orb?) allowing one to remember any detail from the past. Yukari's moon excursion through gaps in Silent Sinner in Blue. Kaguya having time control abilities. The Pointdevice mode allowing you to peek into the future.

There's a bunch of loose ends about time travel, but not enough for me to speculate. I mean, ZUN tends to improvise and bounce around with the settings, but this time around there's really the feeling of a story arc that even shows up through his sketches.

(Uh, or it's just ZUN's way of saying "here's to Touhou continuing into the foreseeable future".)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on July 05, 2015, 05:34:10 pm
(is that the same thing as the Lunar Orb?)

If by "Lunar Orb" you mean the Lunar Capital's Occult Ball, then no, they are two different things. The Ultramarine Orb is the drug that Eirin gave the protagonists, the one that allows Pointdevice Mode to work.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on July 08, 2015, 11:52:51 am
Yo guys, I have been hearing rumors about LoLK being possibly released at Comiket 88 which is in August. That would mean that this game would be released more or less in a month if ZUN douse release it then. Hype?!  :V

I'm worried that if ZUN douse try and rush this game to meet that deadline like the one with the demo at Reitaisai that we might get a game that would need some polish or possibly be incomplete. Good games need time, especially if your fiddling around with new game mechanics like point device mode (yes, I know about after release patching like AAA game studios are doing nowadays, but come on that's lame).

Looking forward to the new music, the outcome of the story, the new characters and the new increased challenge! I am liking how the demo was going  :3
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: game2011 on July 08, 2015, 11:55:14 am
Yo guys, I have been hearing rumors about LoLK being possibly released at Comiket 88 which is in August. That would mean that this game would be released more or less in a month if ZUN douse release it then. Hype?!  :V
Which is usually when the final products are released if you are aware of the previous games' release patterns.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on July 08, 2015, 05:11:39 pm
I'm worried that if ZUN douse try and rush this game to meet that deadline like the one with the demo at Reitaisai that we might get a game that would need some polish or possibly be incomplete. Good games need time, especially if your fiddling around with new game mechanics like point device mode

ZUN has pushed things forward for needing more work in the past, there is no reason to believe he would release a rushed, unfinished product now.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: gilde on July 25, 2015, 10:05:43 pm
ZUN's been tweeting a bit more about LoLK's development recently. (https://twitter.com/korindo)

Quote from: ZUN
Looks like Windows Update started running while I was away from the computer. When I got back, there was a Purple Screen of Death instead of a blue one.
Works just fine after restarting, though. Eh.
I'll take it as a sign that I should tackle the last of the development pronto!
Quote from: ZUN
Whew, submitted the printed matter. Time to charge through the rest of development!
The timing of Windows 10's release was near-fatal, what with having to write the compatible OSes on the cover.

"Printed matter" probably refers to the CD labels, as was the case with Reitaisai's demo release.
Most of the web demos since MoF (save for TD, the outlier) have been released in the latter half of July, so one would guess the LoLK demo and CD cover will be posted real soon. (woo!!)



I only just noticed this, but Reisen's unfocused shot has the same name as Seiran's final card ("Lunatic Gun" / ルナティックガン). They even kinda look the same. I had thought the card was Seiran's own, but it's probably just the rabbits' standard-issue gun as depicted within the Spell Card system. That's neat.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on July 26, 2015, 12:10:36 am
I'll be patiently awaiting the release of the game's jewel case...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: snowflake247 on July 26, 2015, 12:27:49 am
I'll be patiently awaiting the release of the game's jewel case...

Me too. I can't wait to see how people are going to try to fit Mima into the silhouette.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on July 26, 2015, 01:46:12 pm
And we do get even more goodies (Screenshots) from the preorder page here

 http://d-stage.com/shop/detail.php?seq=68519

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ToyoRai on July 26, 2015, 01:58:20 pm
ZUN decided to put silhouette on Hard Mode. I cannot tell what is what, and the silhouette is cut off.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on July 26, 2015, 02:06:01 pm
Well, from the silhouette, it looks like there's no skirt/dress, so it's probably not Mima or Maribel.

Looks like you fight a boss in the Luna City itself who has mini-yin yang orbs. Maybe one of the sisters?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on July 26, 2015, 02:16:26 pm
Seems like she's holding 2 (flaming?) swords.
The thing in the mid-low part could be a tail or a floating piece of cloth.

The hat seems conical (like Mima's!!11!!!1), reminds me of those hats you see in movies about safari, but with a bow/ribbon like that in Marisa's hat.

Well, from the silhouette, it looks like there's no skirt/dress, so it's probably not Mima or Maribel.

I thought the same, but maybe that thing is some sort of pillar she's sitting on, with crossed legs (it would be weird to see though).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on July 26, 2015, 02:27:56 pm
Those bullet patterns are going to make me have to replay this game thousands of times.

Also, A Japanese-style building is in the background of one of the pictures. Lunar Capital confirmed? (as if it wasn't already)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on July 26, 2015, 03:02:25 pm
Seems like she's holding 2 (flaming?) swords.
The thing in the mid-low part could be a tail or a floating piece of cloth.

The hat seems conical (like Mima's!!11!!!1), reminds me of those hats you see in movies about safari, but with a bow/ribbon like that in Marisa's hat.

... Really? Two flaming swords?

How are you all seeing this stuff? These silhouettes are like the Rorschach test of the WTC. 

In any event, yeah, the bullet patterns look pretty uh challenging. Can anyone translate what Sanae is saying here?

(http://i.imgur.com/Wlb9rGM.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: N-Forza on July 26, 2015, 03:15:04 pm
"Looking at this, I don't think you could entirely call this an urban legend."
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on July 26, 2015, 03:37:11 pm
... Really? Two flaming swords?

How are you all seeing this stuff? These silhouettes are like the Rorschach test of the WTC. 

Well, this is what i see:

(http://oi62.tinypic.com/30u75hw.jpg)

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on July 26, 2015, 04:01:49 pm
^
(http://i.imgur.com/YvWjYML.png) (http://i.imgur.com/yiMpHHe.png)
:V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on July 26, 2015, 04:07:15 pm
"Looking at this, I don't think you could entirely call this an urban legend."

Oh ho ho! Very meta.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on July 26, 2015, 04:15:06 pm
^
(http://i.imgur.com/YvWjYML.png) (http://i.imgur.com/yiMpHHe.png)
:V

Heh, well, I laughed.  That's hilarious.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on July 26, 2015, 04:45:56 pm
Personally, I see a dragon in that silhouette.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on July 26, 2015, 04:48:37 pm
Could someone screenshot the silhouette cover please? The site wont load for me
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on July 26, 2015, 05:20:41 pm
Could someone screenshot the silhouette cover please? The site wont load for me

Here (http://imgur.com/mC8e0pc,yphYwGr,BRoe61Z,AbiWqst)'s the screenshots from the cover and heretofor unseen parts of the game.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on July 26, 2015, 05:23:40 pm
Here (http://imgur.com/mC8e0pc,yphYwGr,BRoe61Z,AbiWqst)'s the screenshots from the cover and heretofor unseen parts of the game.
Thank you! I must say this silhouette's the most confusing one I've seen to date. That, and to think those spellcards screenshotted are on normal mode. Yeesh.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ChronaSE on July 26, 2015, 07:03:54 pm
very weird silhouette indeed, other than that i'm so hyped !
 
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK2Uaj_UMAAyKTz.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on July 26, 2015, 07:08:34 pm
Damn, that is a janky sillhouette. I wonder how ZUN pulled off the character herself...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CK2Uaj_UMAAyKTz.jpg)

I would imagine something like this, though. It could be a possibility.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on July 26, 2015, 07:12:27 pm
Maybe she's a ghost or mermaid and the left leg is her "tail", with the right vertical line leading up to the cone-hat being some kind of.... phallic pillar or rocket or something that she's leaning against
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on July 26, 2015, 07:33:43 pm
What if it's a silhouette of those landrover machine things mentioned in LoLK? I mean it looks mechanical enough I guess.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tiamat on July 26, 2015, 07:47:41 pm
True... maybe it's a girl riding a land rover.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on July 26, 2015, 08:23:24 pm
Maybe she's a ghost or mermaid and the left leg is her "tail", with the right vertical line leading up to the cone-hat being some kind of.... phallic pillar or rocket or something that she's leaning against
Dunno, I kinda get the impression that she is the straight thing on the right side, the conic thing her hat (you can see her hair just below it), and she seems to wear a kimono or something around these lines. No idea what these flamey tail-ish things are, though (I hope these are fluffy tails, for fluffiness's sake).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Phasm on July 27, 2015, 12:27:08 am
I sort of get the feeling it's a Girl riding on a Turtle
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Doki-Doki on July 27, 2015, 12:52:23 am
I sort of get the feeling it's a Girl riding on a Turtle
Genji confirmed for 15's antagonist
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Fulisha of Light on July 27, 2015, 01:05:00 am
Dunno, I kinda get the impression that she is the straight thing on the right side, the conic thing her hat (you can see her hair just below it), and she seems to wear a kimono or something around these lines. No idea what these flamey tail-ish things are, though (I hope these are fluffy tails, for fluffiness's sake).
(http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/Gabifier-tm/Stuff%20to%20be%20Done/Stuff%20already%20Done/TH_15_shadowtheory_zps5cdre4g2.png)
(My impression. Yeah, kinda a bad sketch OTL)
I think you might be right that she's wearing a kimono though, but the bottom makes it almost unlikely.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on July 27, 2015, 01:11:05 am
It's a girl riding a mechanical dragon! :v

So the Lunar Capital really does have round windows.

Could someone translate the spellcard name in the seventh image, please?

http://d-stage.com/shop/detail.php?seq=68519
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on July 27, 2015, 01:15:05 am
I've seriously got to admire how ZUN obscures the bosses in those screenshots. Sneaky.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on July 27, 2015, 01:19:50 am
「片翼の白鷲」, "One-winged White Eagle".

also if that's reimu i'm going to explode

EDIT: To a lurking Gilde, nice catch on teppoudama
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on July 27, 2015, 01:30:45 am
also if that's reimu i'm going to explode

No, and I can tell that's not a 'other player characters are the stage 4 boss' schtick; note how around the spell circle you can see a faint cyan/red contrast in the spellcard background, which none of the MCs have in their backgrounds.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on July 27, 2015, 01:39:06 am
IIRC, Sukune's silhouette didn't have her mallet. There could always be a trick here... though I can't think of one.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on July 27, 2015, 02:04:16 am
Likely that one of the next bosses will be the commander/employer of the Eagle Ravi.  I mean they gotta have someone behind their backs eh?

The final boss' outline sure is strange though, but I still have faith that a Touhou-Chang'e will appear somewhere.  Maybe on the ex stage?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on July 27, 2015, 02:59:53 am
No, and I can tell that's not a 'other player characters are the stage 4 boss' schtick; note how around the spell circle you can see a faint cyan/red contrast in the spellcard background, which none of the MCs have in their backgrounds.
Wut? I'm talking about the picture with the yin-yang orbs and amulets; pointy lasers all over aren't Reimu's thing. I know the spell card backgrounds. The boss aura is red, which Reimu's is as well. Nothing suggests either of the pictures are stage 4 to begin with. The main reason I would say it wouldn't be Reimu is to note that those two pictures seem to be of adjacent patterns.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on July 27, 2015, 03:36:07 am
Wut? I'm talking about the picture with the yin-yang orbs and amulets; pointy lasers all over aren't Reimu's thing. I know the spell card backgrounds. The boss aura is red, which Reimu's is as well. Nothing suggests either of the pictures are stage 4 to begin with. The main reason I would say it wouldn't be Reimu is to note that those two pictures seem to be of adjacent patterns.

Aaah, I understand.

From how the attack seems to work, the amulets curve as they are being shot out (which Reimu would also not do), and it seems that the spellcard has a sort of barrier (or maybe that's just the charge effect) that would most likely punish you if you were in it (Much like  this attack in Earthen Miraculous Sword (https://youtu.be/gA0lA2Umqgc?t=27m44s) (You don't see it in that particular nonspell, but Yaorochi slashes at you  if you get in the red area).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on July 27, 2015, 05:15:39 am
The thing in the spell card is definitely a charge effect, whether it's a chargeup or the explodey-charge.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: nintendonut888 on July 27, 2015, 07:52:23 am
Wut? I'm talking about the picture with the yin-yang orbs and amulets; pointy lasers all over aren't Reimu's thing. I know the spell card backgrounds. The boss aura is red, which Reimu's is as well. Nothing suggests either of the pictures are stage 4 to begin with. The main reason I would say it wouldn't be Reimu is to note that those two pictures seem to be of adjacent patterns.

It's worth saying that the yin yang orbs in said picture appear to actually be kedamas, which all sport the yin-yang pattern since SA. Also, given the nature of the plot, I have my doubts that the heroines would choose now of all times to fight amongst each other, though anything is possible I suppose.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: 7TC7 on July 27, 2015, 08:19:21 am
also if that's reimu i'm going to explode

There is no name in the upper left corner, which suggests it's both a midboss and someone we don't know. The same is true for the laser spellcard right after, which suggests it's the same midboss battle.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Drake on July 27, 2015, 08:31:47 am
guys i'm not even suggesting that it is reimu

pls stahp

pls
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on July 27, 2015, 08:46:48 am
:V I too misread it as said on IRC, thinking you were suggesting it. At first glance it does look like that.

About the cover being posted, to be honest, they don't look like flames to me. But more like branches/pointy things. She does look a princess or sort of majestic dressed person. Think the drawing earlier shown might be quite close.

The question is, is the boss on the cover the "mad man" herself as said in the prologue/story? Or is she someone working under command? Questions questions.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: gilde on July 27, 2015, 09:29:27 am
I think the card name is "One-Winged Egret" (片翼の白), actually. Maybe?


On closer inspection, the card pictured doesn't come directly after the nonspell. The nonspell's health bar has a marker for the spell following it, which doesn't match up with the health bar for Egret. That, along with the huge jump in score between the dialogue and the nonspell, indicates that this is the boss we're seeing and not a midboss. The name's probably just missing in order to avoid any major spoilers.

On some even closer (read: obsessive) inspection...

Code: [Select]
Dialogue: 10,194,080 score
14,150 point value
0/1865 graze

Nonspell: 22,860,190 score +12,666,110 since dialogue
17,450 point value +3300 since dialogue
117/2664 graze +682 graze between dialogue & start of nonspell
+1 bomb fragment (ie. only one Chapter Bonus exceeding 1 million)

Card: 29,335,330 score +6,475,140 since nonspell
20,130 point value +2680 since nonspell
146/3010 graze +200 graze between previous screenshot & start of spell
+1 bomb fragment (ie. only one Chapter Bonus exceeding 1 million)
4,391,160 left on spell bonus

I'd guess there's 2 nonspells and spells between the dialogue and the pictured nonspell (two spell bonuses, both 4~5 million since it's S4 Normal + one Chapter Bonus over a million bc bomb fragment + three sub-million Chapter Bonuses = roughly 12-and-a-half million?). So this is the third nonspell and fourth Spell Card we're looking at. I think.


The big wavy parts on the CD cover silhouette reminded me of an Eastern dragon's horns before anything else. That and the tail-looking thing on the side. It's hardly likely that we'll be fighting the Dragon God any time soon, but speaking of dragons... maybe one of the Watatsumi gods? Maybe the Watatsukis' mom??
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on July 27, 2015, 10:36:31 am
Wut? I'm talking about the picture with the yin-yang orbs and amulets; pointy lasers all over aren't Reimu's thing. I know the spell card backgrounds. The boss aura is red, which Reimu's is as well. Nothing suggests either of the pictures are stage 4 to begin with. The main reason I would say it wouldn't be Reimu is to note that those two pictures seem to be of adjacent patterns.
And now i notice that Sanae's Cobalt Spread has explosions obscenely bigger than in UFO. Does this thing still do AoE damage? The explosions obscure the enemies and i can't see the damage effect.

Re:cover. I recall someone saying about a dragon. S/he used Shenron (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Shenron) as reference. At first i thought it meant that the "flames/wings" were actually stags, then i saw a spiky thing in the lower part of the image.

Also: Final boss confirmed to be simultaneously Miko, Mokou, and a Pokmon. (http://blog.livedoor.jp/tohomemory/archives/44903061.html)

Edit: Some more (http://blog.livedoor.jp/tohomemory/archives/44910225.html)
Quote
(http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tohomemory/imgs/5/b/5bc70f1c-s.jpg) (ラスボス=Last Boss)
(http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tohomemory/imgs/0/5/05278de2-s.jpg)
(http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tohomemory/imgs/a/5/a5103ccc-s.jpg)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: CF7 on July 27, 2015, 10:39:52 am
and to think those spellcards screenshotted are on normal mode. Yeesh.
This. The stage is not shown, but the fact that the amulet non-spell reminds me of Mokou's non-spells is probably not a good sign.
Also lazors. I hate lazors.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on July 27, 2015, 12:02:18 pm
And now i notice that Sanae's Cobalt Spread has explosions obscenely bigger than in UFO. Does this thing still do AoE damage? The explosions obscure the enemies and i can't see the damage effect.

Re:cover. I recall someone saying about a dragon. S/he used Shenron (http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Shenron) as reference. At first i thought it meant that the "flames/wings" were actually stags, then i saw a spiky thing in the lower part of the image.

Also: Final boss confirmed to be simultaneously Miko, Mokou, and a Pokmon. (http://blog.livedoor.jp/tohomemory/archives/44903061.html)

Edit: Some more (http://blog.livedoor.jp/tohomemory/archives/44910225.html)
Aside from the troll images and attempts (which were quite funny) the dragon one could be also plausible. Especially due to the thing not being fire but pointy/spikes/branches.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mr Jovial on July 27, 2015, 12:24:14 pm
(http://i62.tinypic.com/21jxfsg.png)
I don't know what I'm doing
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Hope ♦ Metal on July 27, 2015, 01:18:01 pm
(http://i62.tinypic.com/21jxfsg.png)
I don't know what I'm doing
everybody pack you bags, we have a winner
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Kaizaki on July 27, 2015, 04:12:27 pm
Whether eagle or egret, there seems to be a bird theme. Is it just me, or do you guys notice it too? (I think it's just me :[)

That said, could the silhouette be of an avian?

inb4 bird -> flame wings -> phoenix -> Mokou confirmed

I still go for dragon though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Suspicious person on July 27, 2015, 04:23:06 pm
food theme
bird theme
Smells like Yakitori
ZUN, how hungry are you
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plubio on July 27, 2015, 05:46:31 pm
About the cover being posted, to be honest, they don't look like flames to me. But more like branches/pointy things. She does look a princess or sort of majestic dressed person. Think the drawing earlier shown might be quite close.

Pretty much this. It looks like branches or thorny things to me (I just remembered branch of Hourai). I also think she's wearing some sort of kimono.
But, by the way, don't you think she's sitting in something? Like a throne. A final boss on a flying throne would be nice, i don't know.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on July 27, 2015, 07:45:09 pm
A final boss on a flying throne would be nice, i don't know.
Frieza confirmed for LoLK.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on July 27, 2015, 10:23:13 pm
Frieza confirmed for LoLK.
*Remilia (https://youtu.be/J1UMgkPsIUI?t=21m6s) confirmed for LoLK.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Spotty Len on July 27, 2015, 10:38:23 pm
*Remilia (https://youtu.be/J1UMgkPsIUI?t=21m6s) confirmed for LoLK.
That settles it, then.

(http://i.imgur.com/cyAiQFk.png) (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=41428351)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on July 28, 2015, 09:35:00 am
That silhouette is the freakiest ever. I agree that it looks the most like somebody riding a vehicle, possibly one of those "mechanical spiders" from the incident backstory.

Add to that the new screenshots, and our current hype status is MAX
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Picochilla on July 28, 2015, 03:22:23 pm
I'm wondering... wasn't there any known kind of Japanese Person who carries a lot of Sword-like weapons around?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on July 28, 2015, 03:54:20 pm
I'm wondering... wasn't there any known kind of Japanese Person who carries a lot of Sword-like weapons around?

Enough postulatory banter! It's time we talk like ladies! And men! And men who play as ladies! For touhou... I guess that's enough~
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Prime32 on July 28, 2015, 04:08:00 pm
I'm wondering... wasn't there any known kind of Japanese Person who carries a lot of Sword-like weapons around?
Only one that comes to mind is Benkei (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benkei), who seems unlikely.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on July 28, 2015, 04:55:49 pm
Enough postulatory banter!

Disagree, the speculation before a big release is always quite entertaining. Part of the whole community aspect, for sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jor%C5%8Dgumo

I'm near-convinced this myth is relevant somehow, referenced in someone's spell cards at least. A lunar rover in the form of mechanical spider. The way a Buddhist monk is featured in the Jōren legend would conveniently connect Byakuren's lotus, too. (Also, they weave their webs in the shape of orbs, but that's more of a stretch.)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on July 28, 2015, 07:41:08 pm
I'm wondering... wasn't there any known kind of Japanese Person who carries a lot of Sword-like weapons around?
This gal? (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Asura_(Summon))
Japanese by proxy. (Zoroastrianism->Hinduism->Buddhism->spread of Buddhism to Japan and mixing with Shinto)
Asura: Extremely powerful beings (compared to puny humans) who act as counterparts to Devas. In the earlier myths, asuras are neutral/benign/positive beings, but in latter myths, asuras are more leaning to carnal and materialistic desires; tend to be aggressive and warmongers. In Buddhism, asuras are one of the six domains of reincarnation (hell/animal/preta/human/asura/deva). Here more virtuous asuras are well-intentioned but still unpredictable.
Related: Yaksha (nature spirits); Rakshasas (kinda equivalent to ogres)

Well, the 2hu moon has relations of Buddhism (concept of purity); and wasn't Tenshi a deva (or extremely close to be so)? I'd be a good thing to expand our monster bestiary.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Picochilla on July 28, 2015, 08:16:42 pm
Only one that comes to mind is Benkei (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benkei), who seems unlikely.

I think thats actually the guy i meant... but still... i thought there were another one somehow...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: PK on July 28, 2015, 09:16:58 pm
Now that i think about it, since lunarians seem mostly based on actual gods and legendary characters, is there a god associated with "the end of the world" or mass extinctions in japanese mythology?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Loafing Bear on July 29, 2015, 05:17:13 am
I drew Seiran before her portrait was shown, and got it half correct. I thought her two ponytails were a blue cap and her ears were from Iku's hat :V

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2ecgqxj.jpg
And here's what I think this Final Boss looks like.... I have three other ones, but this will do. Okay so I'm thinking those are branches and that maybe she's with a space probe, like what Sanae mentioned. IDK, the probe manifested itself into a tree... oh and she's holding a stick with bells! That thing in the right of her hat is actually just another branch behind her. Looks like something that's part of the hat :P (I couldn't think of a design for that hat......)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plastic Vortex on July 29, 2015, 07:43:30 am
Now that i think about it, since lunarians seem mostly based on actual gods and legendary characters, is there a god associated with "the end of the world" or mass extinctions in japanese mythology?

This guy? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amatsu-Mikaboshi)

I highly doubt it but here are some more extremely unlikely candidates:
Izanami
Kagutsuchi
Susano
Nobunaga
Ieyasu
Hideyoshi
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mr Jovial on July 29, 2015, 07:28:09 pm
Uhh, just to make sure, should I avoid upgrading to Windows 10 considering the case and ZUN's tweet would imply that LoLK isn't compatible with Windows 10?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on July 29, 2015, 08:15:13 pm
I think it meant more along the lines of "oh crap, I need to make sure I actually put win10 on the compatible OS list", something that's easy to overlook when it's release is... now?

Only pre-2000 era games would be liable to have issues with win10 I imagine (as they have issues with win7, or even XP, etc)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Sage Ω (Ultima) on July 30, 2015, 02:25:52 am
I can see EoSD just plain not working anymore, on Win8 and 8.1 the game has issues playing windowed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: DTM on July 30, 2015, 05:15:06 am
Running Windows 10 right now.  The only rough spots are that Touhou 6-9.5 doesn't work fullscreen (windowed works perfectly fine).  All other games work perfectly.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on July 30, 2015, 06:58:25 am
Please post your technical issues / experience with Windows 10 & Touhou in the tech support (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html) section. Let us not litter the Th15 thread for this.

Cheers.


Silly me: I thought it was more specific tech issues but it was in relation to Th15 & Win10. My apologies.  :ohdear:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on July 31, 2015, 12:11:41 pm
Well we get more news, not too reassuring but still..

http://kourindou.exblog.jp/23501149/

Quote from: shanghai_alice
 いやー、連日暑くてとろけそうです。
 そんなわけで東方Project 第15弾 東方紺珠伝 の体験版を公開します。

 東方紺珠伝 体験版ダウンロード

 発表は今年の夏コミの予定です。自分の環境で動作するか確認してみてもらえれば幸いです。

 例大祭バージョンのバグ修正版ですが、一部システムの変更もあります。
  ・レガシーモードのチャプターボーナスが1UPのかけらになりました。
  ・完全無欠モードのミスペナルティに限度が付きました。
  ・ゲームオーバー時の曲がタイトル画面になっていますが、これはバグでは無く、容量節減のためBGMを省いています。製品版ではゲームオーバーの曲が流れます。


 本格的な調整はこれからです。製品版と異なる可能性が高いのでご了承ください。

 さてと、最後の仕上げといきますか!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plubio on July 31, 2015, 12:31:50 pm
The demo web, finally.
Three mirrors and I can't download it, haha.

Guess I'll have to wait a bit.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: 7TC7 on July 31, 2015, 12:32:40 pm
Why isn't it reassuring? Isn't it a a new webdemo with some nice fixes? I mean, that's what I get from google translate at least.

Edit: wuhu, 2+ hours download. but at least I got it to start
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on July 31, 2015, 01:07:47 pm
Oh, now in Legacy Mode, instead of getting bomb pieces from chapter bonuses, you get life pieces. I assume there are not score 1ups anymore. I'm curious how much this will improve the demo scoreruns, since if the piece count is still 5, they'll effectively get 3 bombs to score with per fill instead of 1; however, since it still ends at stage 3, that'll probably just make it a bombapalooza XD Good for casual players though since the difficulty is obscene...

edit:Dang, you weren't kidding about it not being easy to get it to start. Even with 3 mirrors, looks like the japanese are probably slamming this demo dl hard?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: TresserT on July 31, 2015, 01:12:57 pm
Oh, now in Legacy Mode, instead of getting bomb pieces from chapter bonuses, you get life pieces. I assume there are not score 1ups anymore.

Is it still bomb pieces in Pointdevice Mode?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on July 31, 2015, 01:15:23 pm
Waiting for download to finish, I got the lifepieces just from a machine translator on the blogpost. It mentioned something about pointdevice in a different bulletpoint, so I'll still check that out.

Edit:Okay, the other two bulletpoints in the announcement mean that there's a limit to the penalty (to your power) from dying in pointdevice mode. Presumably so if you have to retry a hundred times (Shudder, but in lunatic, it could happen) your power doesn't start dropping below 3 and making it effectively a game over. (I mean, if you couldn't win in 100+ tries, and your power then drops to 2, and then 1, well...) I'm not testing what it is, since that could involve dying 50~100+ times, but there you go. XD

The other is just that for the sake of game size, the demo does not have the game over theme. Instead it reuses the title screen theme. Full version will have a game over theme.

And of course, the several bugs in the original demo should be fixed.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: N-Forza on July 31, 2015, 01:23:06 pm
Seems that the final product could be a fair amount different from this demo...
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on July 31, 2015, 01:57:20 pm
Seems that the final product could be a fair amount different from this demo...
So he will after all manage to finish it on time for Ket huh? Cool.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Uruwi on July 31, 2015, 05:22:19 pm
Confirmed: you get life pieces in Legacy. Haven't counted exactly, but should be 8. However, there's no (pieces: 0/8) counter below the lives, while there is a counter for bomb pieces.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on July 31, 2015, 05:50:14 pm
8? Nah, it's 5, like bomb pieces are. I counted.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Zil on July 31, 2015, 11:22:25 pm
You're saying you get an extra life every 5 checkpoints? If that's the case this game is going to be a disaster. I can't even imagine what ZUN is thinking at this point.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on August 01, 2015, 12:42:44 am
No, you get a life fragment every time you earn the bonus instead of before where it was a bomb fragment for every time you earn the bonus (I assume it's still bomb fragments in Pointdevice). So it's not literally every five checkpoints unless you manage to earn the bonus at every checkpoint (good luck on that on lower difficulties too)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Camilo113 on August 01, 2015, 01:47:02 am
You're saying you get an extra life every 5 checkpoints? If that's the case this game is going to be a disaster. I can't even imagine what ZUN is thinking at this point.

Not an extra life but a life piece every 5 checkpoints. You need to collect 5 life pieces to get an extra life, which means you need to get 25 checkpoints to get your first extra life (via checkpoints I mean obviously); and all this considering you got the bonus points to actually get the reward life.

One exception is the Easy Mode in Legacy Mode respectively were you get a life piece in every checkpoint if you reach the bonus points.

I can't recall exactly how many checkpoints there are per stage, but I think it ranges between 9~12. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on August 01, 2015, 02:17:50 am
Interesting change about the life pieces.  Do you still gain extra lives when reaching certain score thresholds though?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ふねん1 on August 01, 2015, 02:19:38 am
Not an extra life but a life piece every 5 checkpoints. You need to collect 5 life pieces to get an extra life, which means you need to get 25 checkpoints to get your first extra life (via checkpoints I mean obviously); and all this considering you got the bonus points to actually get the reward life.

One exception is the Easy Mode in Legacy Mode respectively were you get a life piece in every checkpoint if you reach the bonus points.

I can't recall exactly how many checkpoints there are per stage, but I think it ranges between 9~12. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The three stages in the original demo had 11, 12, and 14 chapters. The second half of the game is surely gonna have more chapters, both from stages and bosses, so if the system was modified like you described, it should provide a few extra lives throughout the game beyond lives from scoring. I'm personally waiting for the full version before I come back to this game, so I'll see what ZUN's final modifications turn out to be.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Validon98 on August 01, 2015, 02:59:08 am
Not an extra life but a life piece every 5 checkpoints. You need to collect 5 life pieces to get an extra life, which means you need to get 25 checkpoints to get your first extra life (via checkpoints I mean obviously); and all this considering you got the bonus points to actually get the reward life.

Where's the 25 coming from? 1 checkpoint with the required amount of graze * shooting down is one life piece, five life pieces is one life, so 5 checkpoints where you get the bonus for one life.

Interesting change about the life pieces.  Do you still gain extra lives when reaching certain score thresholds though?

I did a test playthrough on Legacy Normal earlier, and although I wasn't paying attention to my score much, I don't think I got any score-based lives, just ones from life piece gain. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plubio on August 01, 2015, 03:37:25 am
I did a test playthrough on Legacy Normal earlier, and although I wasn't paying attention to my score much, I don't think I got any score-based lives, just ones from life piece gain. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong.

Checked it.
On the first demo getting 30,000,000 and 75,000,000 points would reward you an extra life this no longer happens.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on August 01, 2015, 04:07:28 am
Yeah, Legacy Mode is going to have a lot of lives; it's usually pretty easy to get all the boss checkpoints, at least above Easy mode, even if half the stage ones are unlikely. ZUN specifically said the system may change before release though; he might make further lives take more pieces ala Ten Desires, or just make it take like 8 pieces for an extra life.

However, the next point is that the game is pretty hard compared to the others in the series as it's designed for Pointdevice mode; and when you have to start bombing attacks away, you're less likely to get the life piece from them. (Although, honestly, a -lot- of the boss attacks are graze fountains; it's to be seen how the later game will go, though)

Legacy Mode might end up like UFO where you combat highly difficult gameplay with an avalanche of lives and bombs if ZUN doesn't tweak it a little, though. But it's likely he will.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ChronaSE on August 01, 2015, 04:23:22 am
Sounds better than the system used on DDC at least, in which just crossing the border line rewarded you with countless life and bomb pieces.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plubio on August 01, 2015, 12:53:10 pm
(Although, honestly, a -lot- of the boss attacks are graze fountains; it's to be seen how the later game will go, though).

To be honest, it's far more from only bosses attacks this game is pretty much based on graze, nearly EVERYTHING on stages is aimed at you (oh, btw, did you notice you can graze bullets more than once?).
And that's nice, Sanae's the best one this time. But I find the others especially painful to play.

And yep, pretty much a better system than DDC, not saying it wasn't bad tho, but this time it's less complex than UFO but you need some minimum skills, much more than just "bomb and go to the top of the stage" flaw DDC has.
Not a flaw at all, tho.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Raikaria on August 02, 2015, 06:45:59 am
And that's nice, Sanae's the best one this time. But I find the others especially painful to play.

In every game Sanae's been in she's either been the best [UFO] or good [TD; Reimu's certainly the easiest there]. I don't think Sanae's ever been a *weak* character; like Marisa can be sometimes.

You can usually count on Reimu have at least one solid shottype; Marisa usually having weaker ones unless her forward focus is that powerful [EoSD's Christmas Trees] and everyone else varies; except Sanae who is seemingly always solid at worst.

I'd say Sakuya is always solid given that I play Sakuya shottypes in every game that has Sakuya that I play; but that's probobly just me. I know a lot of people don't rate Sakuya in PCB outside of high score runs.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 02, 2015, 12:37:35 pm
Well we get more news, not too reassuring but still..

http://kourindou.exblog.jp/23501149/

いやー、連日暑くてとろけそうです。
 そんなわけで東方Project 第15弾 東方紺珠伝 の体験版を公開します。

 東方紺珠伝 体験版ダウンロード

 発表は今年の夏コミの予定です。自分の環境で動作するか確認してみてもらえれば幸いです。

 例大祭バージョンのバグ修正版ですが、一部システムの変更もあります。
  ・レガシーモードのチャプターボーナスが1UPのかけらになりました。
  ・完全無欠モードのミスペナルティに限度が付きました。
  ・ゲームオーバー時の曲がタイトル画面になっていますが、これはバグでは無く、容量節減のためBGMを省いています。製品版ではゲームオーバーの曲が流れます。


 本格的な調整はこれからです。製品版と異なる可能性が高いのでご了承ください。

 さてと、最後の仕上げといきますか!

So, does anyone want to offer a translation of this, just to avoid any confusion about how this works and all? Because there seems to be some confusion.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on August 02, 2015, 02:27:02 pm
I know machine translators are awful, but in this case, they honestly get the job done fairly well. With paraphrasing-

"This should fix the bugs, but please tell me if it works correctly on your computer!"

-In Legacy Mode, you get life pieces instead of spellcard pieces now
-In Pointdevice Mode, there is now a limit to the power penalty from dying
-When you game over you get the title screen theme, but it's not a bug; it was omitted for the download size. The proper game over theme will play in the full version.

"By the way, the final product may be different from what you see here..."

There's nothing complicated about it; I think the life piece mechanic confusion was coming from people who were speculating more than they were using data from the demo itself. It doesn't help that the piece counter is still on the bombs, not lives, so you have to manually count your pieces :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 02, 2015, 02:30:51 pm
Thanks! Wasn't sure if I could trust Google.

One thing:
Quote
-In Pointdevice Mode, there is now a limit to the power penalty from dying

Am I understanding this right? The penalty is already pretty minuscule, like about -0.01 or something ridiculously low like that. Maybe he means a limit to how many times you get chipped away at when dying?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Critz on August 02, 2015, 02:41:37 pm
In every game Sanae's been in she's either been the best [UFO] or good [TD; Reimu's certainly the easiest there]. I don't think Sanae's ever been a *weak* character; like Marisa can be sometimes.
Except, TD Sanae is the worst of the four due to her lackluster damage output. She's got a very solid bomb in terms of damage and divine spirit collection and enhanced trance gain, but that's it. Reimu outclasses her as a spread-type option by virtue of dealing more damage and being all-around best character after Youmu. And Sanae's 12.3 incarnation is low-tier and very technical if that matters, lol. I still always play Sanae out of loyalty though, and she's great in UFO and LoLK. :3

You can usually count on Reimu have at least one solid shottype; Marisa usually having weaker ones unless her forward focus is that powerful [EoSD's Christmas Trees] and everyone else varies; except Sanae who is seemingly always solid at worst.
Marisa pretty much always gets the shaft in comparison to Reimu. She got limited to 2 bombs in PCB, saddled with Alice in IN, cannot compete with Reimu-Yukari in SA and finally she lost her piercing from TD onward (now Reisen  has it) and isn't even that impressive in terms of damage now, Master Spark being her sole redeeming feature (that also slows her down badly).

On the bright side, she's still got solid damage on her missile option in EoSD, great familiar set-up option in MoF, nice damage and laser piercing that's very useful in UFO and can actually compete with the brokenness of DDC's Reimu A and Sakuya A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to_EGwaWcEU) with the power of ♡Magic Absorber♡  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tASHLAad3k). And she's always strong in fighters and Phantasmagorias.

I'd say Sakuya is always solid given that I play Sakuya shottypes in every game that has Sakuya that I play; but that's probobly just me. I know a lot of people don't rate Sakuya in PCB outside of high score runs.
PCB Sakuya A is good for survival as far as homing options go and has 4 bombs per life to burn, but is complete garbage for scoring. PCB Sakuya B is, on the other hand, a borderline gamebreaker - Marisa-tier damage output, wide shot that covers most of the screen when moving unfocused and solid range when focused, four bombs per life that do wonders for scoring with their clearing effect and  high cherry gain are nothing to scoff at - unless you need Reimu's smaller hitbox/longer deathbomb/slower movement perks.

On the other hand, IN Sakuya is outright garbage due to her nonexistent damage and so is DDC Sakuya B - who is shit at survival and only good for scoring due to her item-generating focus shot and her bomb that converts bullets to point items and let's you graze stuff. Meanwhile DDC Sakuya A is, as mentioned above, a gamebreaker due to damage, homing and double-shield bomb and her PoFV incarnation is both solid against other players and AI due to her EX-daggers. And she is pretty much top tier throughout the fighters due to her great bullet game and ridiculous pressure. :derp:
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on August 02, 2015, 02:50:42 pm
Am I understanding this right? The penalty is already pretty minuscule, like about -0.01 or something ridiculously low like that. Maybe he means a limit to how many times you get chipped away at when dying?
I'm pretty sure he means the penalty maxes out at some point; I'm not sure where, but I imagine it might be when you're about at 3.00 power (so as to keep you from dipping down in power levels on an attack you're already so bad at you did 100 tries without winning)

However, there's no way I'm dying on an attack 50~100 times to test >_>; Maybe I'll get back to you on that in the full version when I get around to a lunatic run. (someone else will probably figure it out first)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: gilde on August 02, 2015, 11:51:39 pm
More ZUN twitter (https://twitter.com/korindo/with_replies), from last night (Japan time) and a few minutes ago:

Quote
Huh, this is hard! It's ridiculously hard. Let's go with this, though. It really is lunacy up on the moon.

|-`).。oO(...well, I am balancing things based on Pointdevice Mode first and foremost, since Legacy Mode is meant to be an extra as far as game mechanics are concerned. Ah well.)

You'll need perseverance to clear it, but try tackling Pointdevice as the main mode first of all. :-)

Woke up, did a lot of fence-sitting.

The moon's become slightly more of a mild one, so perhaps I'll finish the balancing here. I think it's calmed down nicely enough if you're just aiming to clear the game. Whew, I'm beat!

I do usually lower the difficulty as the last part of the balancing. When I, as the creator, think "maybe I lowered it a little too much," it tends to be just about right, I think?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2015, 01:08:36 am
Ha, nice, Pointdevice has gotten pretty addictive. I am still curious about it's narrative role in the end.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plubio on August 03, 2015, 01:36:46 am
I found hilarious he thinks the game is "ridiculously hard".
Oops, needs more testing.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on August 03, 2015, 02:00:04 am
Well, when you balance the game around "infinite retries on all the attacks", it's kind of like making the cards Shoot The Bullet/Double Spoiler tier :V

It's interesting to hear about how he balances game difficulty when you consider overall, the attacks in the series seem to be getting harder as it goes on. SA and UFO are definitely a big step up from the earlier games in the series... and DDC is no joke either when it comes to attack difficulty on the higher ones (although you can get a lot of resources)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on August 03, 2015, 08:44:52 am
Heads up for posters, readers, lurkers and guests: As the opening post lacks proper updates in both screenshots and information, I will remake the thread once the full game is out with new screenshots and existing info + your usual BunBunMaru style reporting. Logically spoilers will be avoided for minimum of 24h.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on August 03, 2015, 12:11:56 pm
Quote
Huh, this is hard! It's ridiculously hard. Let's go with this, though. It really is lunacy up on the moon.

Oh my Hakurei god! You know this game is going to be hard when even lunatic clearing ZUN admits to its difficulty.

ZUN's going full CAVE on our asses! I, however, approve of this increased level of bullet density (...Hit me harder please ZUN; I love it when you go all masochistic on us, I can take it!)  :3

I wonder how many more Touhou games after LoLK will it take before ZUN goes full Mushihimesama Futari Black Label god mode on us? Because as someone said above, ZUN appears to be increasing the difficulty with every game. Imagine a Touhou game finally taking the title of the worlds hardest game to complete.  :]

I have been wondering what the 1CC ending to this game will be like once we vanquish the big bad on the moon. Will we be getting our regular run-of-the-mill happy go lucky endings that we usually get where the protagonists and antagonists have tea at the end?... Or perhaps we may end up getting a more darker, serious ending?

Since we have a giant mechanical spider going around Gensokyo "purifying" everything in its path, the ending might be that Gensokyo has taken heavy damage from the invasion attempt and the humans and Youkai band together in the aftermath to rebuild... all while contemplating that fighting and war really all just leads to misery... and the Hakurei shrine is destroyed again!  :]

Giant mechanical spider...seriously, the Jon Peters parallel here just gets me every time.  :V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2015, 12:19:53 pm
ZUN appears to be increasing the difficulty with every game.

Wow, this is not the impression I get, at all. Seems more to me like the overall difficulty across the games go through uneven peaks and valleys rather than a steady incline. And that's leaving aside what skill sets are being challenged for which particular game. I mean, DDC harder than SA or UFO? Sure hasn't been my experience anyway.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on August 03, 2015, 12:36:24 pm
Hmmm... well the games seem to be picking up the difficulty pace steadily to me at least.

SA was my first 1CC. I had more trouble with SA than I did with UFO. The easiest Windows game to me was EoSD since the lack of an onscreen hitbox limited the complex Danmaku opportunity. DDC I cleared once with Reimu B but Seija and Sakuna were pretty tough to me in terms of bosses. I guess I'm a weird one though because I consider IN to be one tough cookie when other people consider it one of the easiest.

Cheers to LoLK, and cheers to a good ZUN difficulty curb stomp to our faces!  :D   
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on August 03, 2015, 01:04:20 pm
DDC is certainly easier to clear overall, however, when you look at it this way; DDC has a lot of spellcards that on high difficulties are just crazy. You can bomb past them, but daaaang, there aren't many cards like that in pre-PoFV imo. (They do exist, like Lifespring Infinity (or whatever replaces Swallow's Cowrie Shell because that sounds wrong) and Scarlet Meister, but even those are the final boss's semifinal cards)

Even on Lunatic I think just about all the spellcards in the earlier games are very doable, just perhaps a bit risky to not bomb, especially pre-stage-6 cards. On DDC they mostly qualify as "if I'm lucky maybe I'll go 8 seconds before I bomb", and I couldn't imagine trying to capture Sukuna's "Inchling's Path" or "Shining Needle Sword" in a 1cc run on normal mode, and even if you give Seija a pass for being gimmicky her spellcards on that high of a difficulty are probably too much for most people, good at Touhou or not << That's harder to quantify though and she might not be bad if you just grind her cards in practice mode

TD is let out of the difficulty loop because ZUN specifically designed it as a lower difficulty game so that instead of the high-resource games we'd been getting, we'd have a low-resource one.

In other news, those people who go around doing Lunatic No-Bomb runs of games because they're Better Than You, I'm curious how impossible Legacy Mode LoLK will be for them :V:V:V
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 03, 2015, 01:33:36 pm
DDC is certainly easier to clear overall, however, when you look at it this way; DDC has a lot of spellcards that on high difficulties are just crazy. You can bomb past them, but daaaang, there aren't many cards like that in pre-PoFV imo. (They do exist, like Lifespring Infinity (or whatever replaces Swallow's Cowrie Shell because that sounds wrong) and Scarlet Meister, but even those are the final boss's semifinal cards)

Even on Lunatic I think just about all the spellcards in the earlier games are very doable, just perhaps a bit risky to not bomb, especially pre-stage-6 cards. On DDC they mostly qualify as "if I'm lucky maybe I'll go 8 seconds before I bomb", and I couldn't imagine trying to capture Sukuna's "Inchling's Path" or "Shining Needle Sword" in a 1cc run on normal mode, and even if you give Seija a pass for being gimmicky her spellcards on that high of a difficulty are probably too much for most people, good at Touhou or not << That's harder to quantify though and she might not be bad if you just grind her cards in practice mode

TD is let out of the difficulty loop because ZUN specifically designed it as a lower difficulty game so that instead of the high-resource games we'd been getting, we'd have a low-resource one.

This seems like using very selective and decontextualized criteria to fit the hypothesis to me, but then again "game difficulty" has always been at least somewhat subjective, based on the dozen or so polls we've done on the subject in HME. A whole range of answers, with a few games most likely to pop up on the Easiest and Hardest ends of the scale.

And yeah, I too will be very curious to see some of our more skilled players take on Legacy Mode in all kinds of ways.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Berzul on August 03, 2015, 03:23:45 pm
Heads up for posters, readers, lurkers and guests: As the opening post lacks proper updates in both screenshots and information, I will remake the thread once the full game is out with new screenshots and existing info + your usual BunBunMaru style reporting. Logically spoilers will be avoided for minimum of 24h.

There is not new info on the game, but if you wish so....
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on August 03, 2015, 08:20:37 pm
This seems like using very selective and decontextualized criteria to fit the hypothesis to me, but then again "game difficulty" has always been at least somewhat subjective,
Well, I didn't want to go into too much depth, but to put it simply; when I went back and replayed PCB on Lunatic after having been used to ZUN's newer games, there was a big general feeling of "holy crap most of this is so much easier than... everything after MoF".
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Zil on August 03, 2015, 08:55:32 pm
When DDC came out people were raving about it being harder than UFO, just as people are doing for LoLK now. However, I think most lunatic players currently see DDC as average. The stage 3 boss is hard but the stage 5 and 6 (especially 6) bosses are easier than usual. LoLK so far seems to have quite a few patterns that can be memorized (more than half of all boss patterns I think), which by their nature are hard at first but become easy with practice. Puzzle / trick patterns are about what I'd expect if ZUN says he's "balancing" around pointdevice. I think forcing the player to retry until they solve something tricky makes more sense than forcing them to retry until they luck out on something ridiculous, and that's exactly what we already see happening with Doremi (aside from the one non spell of hers, which is indeed ridiculous.)

In any case I don't think the games are getting harder. Seems all over the place to me.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on August 03, 2015, 11:14:12 pm
I take it this way:
SA is the hardest going by patterns themselves alone. Then you also have bombs directly tied to firepower which is somewhat discouraging.
UFO is there, but the difficulty goes up when trying to collect the UFOs while matching the colors and dodging the bullets.
DDC has some dense patterns, but it can be mitigated if you know how to abuse the Point of Collection/Item gathering mechanic for bombs and lives. Even without getting there, bombs are given like candy (in exchange of losing them all when dying).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on August 04, 2015, 02:06:35 pm
I'm still waiting for ZUN to go full CAVE on us... or at least make a game that Jaimers91 will at least contemplate throwing his keyboard/joystick/whatever in frustration.

I believe legacy mode for LoLK is a step in this direction... and I like it : 3
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: pokemon123 on August 04, 2015, 08:47:52 pm
i actually hope he doesn't go full "CAVE" on us lol. i enjoy high difficulty but futari ultra is hard to the point where it's just not fun. I've heard god mode is actually around UFO hard tier?
But that's for another time. 
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Jaimers on August 05, 2015, 01:12:23 am
You can get maximum lives before the stage 3 boss now lol.
This change kinda made the demo go from 'quite hard' to 'impossible to fail'.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Failure McFailFace on August 05, 2015, 03:06:22 am
You can get maximum lives before the stage 3 boss now lol.
This change kinda made the demo go from 'quite hard' to 'impossible to fail'.
If you don't suck like me and farm graze at every opportunity.

Are you playing at Hard or Lunatic? Then that's probably why.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Emerald Mint on August 05, 2015, 06:05:32 am
You can get maximum lives before the stage 3 boss now lol.
This change kinda made the demo go from 'quite hard' to 'impossible to fail'.
I think 1 million for a chapter bonus is too easy. Something like 3m or higher, could be different for higher stages/difficulty.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 05, 2015, 03:56:37 pm
You can get maximum lives before the stage 3 boss now lol.

Looking forward to seeing those replays!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mero on August 05, 2015, 06:50:05 pm
You can get maximum lives before the stage 3 boss now lol.
This change kinda made the demo go from 'quite hard' to 'impossible to fail'.
yeah, it did tone down the game substantially.
I'm not really feeling this approach (that is, going life pieces only), I would have preferred something like bombs and lives needing three pieces but you get them in a 3>1>3>1 fashion, but eh... we're probably getting an entirely new system on release anyway
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Arcorann on August 06, 2015, 11:36:30 am
Heads up for posters, readers, lurkers and guests: As the opening post lacks proper updates in both screenshots and information, I will remake the thread once the full game is out with new screenshots and existing info + your usual BunBunMaru style reporting. Logically spoilers will be avoided for minimum of 24h.

Could you make sure that there's an actual front page post this time? We still don't have one for either this or 14.5, which makes it look very unmaintained (the newest post is still the one on *that* project, which is now six months old).
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Helepolis on August 06, 2015, 11:57:02 am
You're right. Some Tengu-ass-spanking needs to be done I see. Unacceptable!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aListers on August 06, 2015, 03:20:34 pm
It's quite unfortunate that the difficulty has been toned down on legacy. I was quite proud in the demo of being able to complete the game on my first shot of it on legacy. Sure it was kind of cheating because I had completed point-device so many times to the point that I knew a good strategy for every spell card and Reisen's bomb is really OP on legacy but it still made me proud. So this game will be the easiest since MOF like I've been telling people after all then?
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on August 06, 2015, 05:31:17 pm
So this game will be the easiest since MOF like I've been telling people after all then?
ZUN's release of the updated demo said the final product might be quite different than what we see here; there's no telling what we're going to get. Best to wait for the full release before saying it'll be the easiest. In any case, it's more likely to end up like UFO; you get a boatload of resources, but the attacks are brutal on high difficulties so it's still nearly impossible.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 06, 2015, 05:49:14 pm
Quote from: aListers link=topic=18338.msg1204258#msg1204258
So this game will be the easiest since MOF like I've been telling people after all then?

It's a proud Touhou fandom tradition to write off an entire game based on a rushed demo.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aListers on August 06, 2015, 07:11:21 pm
It's a proud Touhou fandom tradition to write off an entire game based on a rushed demo.

It'll still probably end up my favourite game in the series - point-device mode is still amazing and the soundtrack so far is too. Still, I hope Zun will revert to having a hard legacy mode or change it up a little bit like that. I'll still argue that no matter what, point-device mode has made the game much easier than at least the last 3 though.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 06, 2015, 07:32:01 pm
I'll still argue that no matter what, point-device mode has made the game much easier than at least the last 3 though.

Well the important thing is you've already decided you're right, no matter what the full game turns out to be.

Light-hearted kidding aside, ZUN did say with the web demo release that we can expect the full version to be "much different" than what we're looking at now. I also hope the difficulty pushes back up a little, but I think he'll have that covered. For some reason I think we have little to worry about.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: ZM on August 06, 2015, 08:31:09 pm
This game feels like it'll definitely be tougher than TD and DDC. I'm glad it'll be up there with UFO in terms of difficulty.

I plan on jumping straight into Hard, and I'm looking forward to the last three stages!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Maple on August 06, 2015, 08:35:56 pm
I still don't have the web demo, so some questions that weren't asked in the last pages:

Are there changes in the danmaku, more/less/faster/slower bullets from enemies or bosses?
New glitches? Are the graphical glitches from the last demo (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom/Gameplay#Glitches) left intact?
I already asked this some pages back: Sanae has explosive frogs. Do these explosions do any damage or it's merely an aesthetic effect? The explosions are way bigger than in UFO, obscuring the enemies and i can't see the damage animation.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Serela on August 06, 2015, 09:29:51 pm
The glitches were fixed, less sure about the others.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Mero on August 06, 2015, 10:20:43 pm
I'll still argue that no matter what, point-device mode has made the game much easier than at least the last 3 though.

That's because PD is Touhou's Casual Mode, it lets you retry indefinitely, and saves your progress too.

I don't really think it's that close to UFO (not random enough), I see it more like SA, where like 80% of patterns are "fail once, then never fail again". It's definitely not like MoF (although I can see the comparison, both games have a lot of aimed stuff)
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on August 07, 2015, 02:32:06 am
So... Any speculations as to when the game will be released on Playism? I'm hoping it won't be long after Comiket. I don't know how well the Playism TH14 sales went, but I hope it was successful enough for ZUN to continue using it as a sales platform.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on August 07, 2015, 10:05:32 am
I can't wait to see the new characters and listen to the new soundtracks in the full version.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Shizzo on August 07, 2015, 10:06:30 am
The glitches were fixed, less sure about the others.

I'll miss Mastersparking Ringo and having her use master spark back at myself ;;
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 07, 2015, 12:15:30 pm
Oh, yes. Really going to miss "Chapter Finish" in 48pt font floating in circles around the screen while I'm trying to see what I'm dodging. That was some next level fourth wall shit right there.

Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: HalfGrand on August 07, 2015, 04:25:25 pm
Quote
I can't wait to see the new characters and listen to the new soundtracks in the full version.

As am I

Quote
It's a proud Touhou fandom tradition to write off an entire game based on a rushed demo.

And to us people that have a folder completely dedicated to Touhou games on our hard drives; good, bad, hard, easy, bad art, good art, hate music/characters, love music/characters... We are going to get the game anyway because... complete collection!  :D
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Tengukami on August 07, 2015, 05:12:20 pm
Yeah I think that's a pretty safe bet. I know it's my plan anyway.

Although I've never gotten the fighting games, because I'm not really crazy about fighting games, but I don't feel my collection lacks them. More power to those who enjoy learning combos!
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: Plubio on August 07, 2015, 05:50:23 pm
It's a proud Touhou fandom tradition to write off an entire game based on a rushed demo.

I think that's because Touhou has very little information of the final version aside from one blog post, and two demos.
Not saying I'd like a bit more information about the game development but do you remember times like UFO demo on March, nothing till August?

Those were the times.
Title: Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
Post by: not ZUNs wife on August 07, 2015, 08:14:20 pm
The information about upcoming games is still very scarce, considering how huge a thing Touhou is. Independent developers generally love spamming screenshots, trailer videos, social media stuff all over the place months before a release. It's what people think marketing is about, but would it really add any value to a franchise like Touhou, where the actual playable games speak for themselves?

I've always appreciated the mysterious aspect surrounding Touhou releases, like how ZUN went through the trouble of blocking the new boss characters from the latest teaser screenshots. It leaves just enough room for speculation, and comes off as more personal somehow. Even seeing the cover art feels like something festive.