Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Phantasmal on April 09, 2015, 11:23:18 PM
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I think I know who the Hakurei god is. I think that the Hakurei god is...
...ZUN himself! Think about it. He is the Hakurei Kannushi! Kannushi = God.
I may be stupid for just realizing this now.
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Kannushi are priests of shinto shrines. Miko (shrine maidens) assist them.
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My preferred theory is based primarily on Mountain of Faith, which (if you play as Reimu) can be thought of as a conflict between two gods both sending their shrine maidens in to do battle on their behalf.
In other words, the Hakurei god is... the player :)
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My preferred theory is based primarily on Mountain of Faith, which (if you play as Reimu) can be thought of as a conflict between two gods both sending their shrine maidens in to do battle on their behalf.
In other words, the Hakurei god is... the player :)
This is my new headcanon.
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DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I thought it was previous owners of the Yin-Yang Orb, who were part of the Hakurei Clan long ago, trapped within it once they died to sustain the god's power.
That's my headcanon that I plan to put in my book anyways.
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My half-baked idea is that The Hakurei God is a powerful (well not so much anymore) anti-youkai god that's main blessing is fighting against youkai, but Yukari has intentionally kept it from being too powerful, because if it gets too powerful, then it will get pissed and probably go on a Youkai killing spree. Which means that even if Rimu wasn't lazy, the hakurei god would still be weak, because of yukari pulling the stings behind the scenes.
(Will edit in more later, probably)
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Sure, Yukari is powerful, but we can't forget that the main border between Gensokyo and the real world is the Hakurei Border. I'm not 100% convinced that Yukari is controlling the Hakurei god. I mean, why would it be kept a secret this long? I don't know, but I have a feeling that TH15 might hold some answers on this subject. Why? Well, simply because 15 is such a solid number. Big stuff usually happens on numbers like these. It's just how things go.
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Sure, Yukari is powerful, but we can't forget that the main border between Gensokyo and the real world is the Hakurei Border. I'm not 100% convinced that Yukari is controlling the Hakurei god. I mean, why would it be kept a secret this long? I don't know, but I have a feeling that TH15 might hold some answers on this subject. Why? Well, simply because 15 is such a solid number. Big stuff usually happens on numbers like these. It's just how things go.
Well, if the Hakurei god was revealed, humans would probably start worshipping it a lot, thus increasing its power. And since the Hakurei shrine's blessing is youkai extermination, it will probably start exterminating youkai on the spot as the old guy said (still, they aren't the species that needs protection in Gensokyo, and noone would care if Medicine or Seija got killed for good).
Also, the Hakurei barrier was namely made by humans, but was Yukari who prepared it, and most likely she had a big role in the actual construction since she was the one who proposed it, and Reimu calls Yukari the "creator" of the barrier in Wahh.
If the god was involved in the barrier, its powers would have conflicted with Yukari's, a youkai, making it impossible to build it in the first place.
On the other hand, you could say the "youkai extermination god" is almost powerless simply because after the barrier was made, exterminations became really rare, thus people stopped relying on the god reducing its importance and powers.
What if Yukari IS the Hakurei God? (Both have thier names hidden and IIRC Rinnosuke claims to know both.)
If ZUN is going to repeat the MoF->SA->UFO->TD thing, TH 15 will probably have something to do with Seija and Shinmyoumaru, or at least the Miracle Mallet :V
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If you want my opinion on it, i'm pretty certain who the Hakurei God really is will never be Revealed officially.
I think ZUN doesn't really sees this as important, it's just a point that you are supposed to wonder about and fill in yourself
In order to make good lore it's important that there are some things that are kept mysterious... and to let everyone have and keep their own idea on the subject.
I think ZUN sees the Hakurei God's Identity as one of them.
Same thing with the relation between Maribel and Yukari, for example...
now if you want my own, personnal take on this:
-My favourite pet theory is that the Hakurei God is no other than.... Reimu Herself! And she doesn't know it...
i've read somewhere (think it was SoPM or WaHH) Kanako said about her she is already God-like, being independent from the rest of the world and residing all alone in her shrine following just her intuitions, like this. And she also said that "if the Hakurei shrine had more followers, she'd have already become a Kami."
Very suspicious! now this could be interpretated as the Hakurei's God powers being sort of "Washed Off" onto her, but Reimu becoming more Godlike and more powerful whould be very well explained if she actually was the god of the shrine: gods become the more strong and wise and important as they gain followers. And then, because the shrine is destitute and has no followers, its god (Reimu) remains greatly weakened (she remains mostly Human-like and can't realise who she is).
My opinion is that she'd be the God of Dream (she use lots of Dream sign attacks, and Dream is linked to Fantasy) or God of Fantasy (= God of Gensokyo: the land for fantasy, outside of the real world). Japanese Gods (Kami) are supposed to be the essence of things like mountains, but also Concepts, ides or emotions, that took a physical form. Reimu is the God that embodies the essence of Gensokyo: The Fantasy/Dream. And her Shrine powers the Hakurei Barrier, which sets the limit between Fantasy and Reality...
and before you say "That's stupid, a Miko (by definition: a Human who serve gods and shrines) can't be a God at the same time!" well, i answer you, Sanae pretty much proves the opposite! she is a god, too: a descendant of Suwako. That, and you also need to read Silent Sinner in Blue! :derp: ( Izunome)
only my 2 cents of course.... :3
Other ideas that i like include, in order of preference:
-All of Gensokyo itself and everyone within it; in other worlds, the Shrine dedicated Fantasy/Mystery in general, pretty much ties in with my Reimu main idea, except that here, gensokyo itself is the god, without having took physical form (cause the shrine is too destitute). Reimu herself, then, is just the Miko serving the god of Gensokyo, who can't manifest. She isn't that god without knowing it.
-Yukari
-ZUN
-YOU! the player (Nice one, Mikuru, i never tought about it, i like this idea too!)
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My personal opinion is the Hakurei God has died. Just like Kanako/Suwako are ultimately dying due to a lack of faith [The entire reason they broke into Gensokyo and the MoF incident and Kanako's empowerment of Utusho].
Now; if Kanako/Suwako; both Shinto Gods; are dying due to a lack of faith, what does this say about Hakurei? No-one worships at the Hakurei Shrine, except *maybe* Reimu herself. Reimu isn't exactly a good shine maiden either, doing things which are outright the antithesis of what she should be doing. [Like bringing youkai to the shrine for tea]. Te only thing which hints Hakurei is still alive is that it was said she's 'left the shrine because of Reimu'. This theory would probobly weigh somewhat heavily on Reimu's predecessors and their actions as well. All we know is Reimu's direct predecessor died when Reimu was rather young, leaving Reimu to learn the Ying-Yang Orbs with Genji at a very young age.
And that's a pretty desperate thing for a god to do, leave their own shrine.
The source of Reimu's powers then? Well. That should be obvious. A lot of her attacks focus on one of the following:
1: Sacred items like her Gohei; Needles; ect.
2: Borders, also known as Boundries.
And we know Reimu spends a lot of time around Yukari too, relative to anyone not named Ran or Chen or perhaps Yuyuko.
It wouldn't surprise me if Yukari has filled in for the Hakurei God's void in terms of Reimu's powers. After all; she needs Reimu to maintain the Barrier tied to her bloodline. Not saying Yukari is a god; just Reimu's source of power has changed without her knowing it.
But the only thing we know for sure is the Hakurei God has bailed. Which pretty much makes it certainly not Reimu or Yukari.
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The Hakurei God is unprovable in its existence or lack thereof.
That said, I really like the idea of the player being the Hakurei God, even if I believe the deity is likely an uninvolved deity or a Watchmaker God. And as I think of it, doesn't Reimu's shruggo attitude about the official duties of being a miko go well with the Hakurei God's own "attitude" as it were? Maybe laziness about religious matters is just the Hakurei way.
That, or Genji has been the Hakurei God all along.
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FLASH: What you say is strongly similar to the "Concealed the Conclusion" scenario. Is it wanted ?
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I just wish Rinnosuke would stop being a huge jerk and just tell everyone.
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Byakuren once said that Hakurei God was angry to Reimu in UFO ending.
If we are the God, then yeah, some people do get angry at Reimu sometimes(Why can't you pass that seam like you occasionally do!!?)
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Based on all that was revealed about the Hakurei Shrine in Touhou series, it's fairly obvious that ZUN had Abe no Seimei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe_no_Seimei) in mind, but only the Kannushi knows the truth.
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FLASH: What you say is strongly similar to the "Concealed the Conclusion" scenario. Is it wanted ?
what's Concealed the Conclusion?
i just know the name, i think its some danmaku fangame where Reimu dies at the end or something, right? never played it, don't know anything more about it.
Based on all that was revealed about the Hakurei Shrine in Touhou series, it's fairly obvious that ZUN had Abe no Seimei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe_no_Seimei) in mind, but only the Kannushi knows the truth.
Really? i haven't read all the Touhou prints and books, ect... but from everything i know, i can't think of anything that whould point to him...? could you give some examples?
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"My opinion is that she'd be the God of Dream "
That's the MOST thing similar from concealed the conclusion. In Concealed the Conclusion, it says that Reimu die, but we also learn that she's kind of the "God of Gensokyo", even if that's not the name, that's what is implying in the game. In fact, Gensokyo exist just because of Reimu, and that all territory, all people, all incident in Gensokyo results of Reimu's dreams. Reimu is dreaming in the real world, and these dreams created Gensokyo. Marisa is one of the only one to be not created by Reimu, but to be a real person in the outside world who happens to be allowed to be a part of Reimus dream, so: to be a part of Gensokyo.
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@ MaskedLeon
i see, well that's only superficially similar i'd say:
-in that case in Concealed the Conclusion: Gensokyo is not real, it's just a dream like hundreds of others, of 1 random, ordinary person: the reimu of the real world.
-in my idea, it's actually kinda the opposite: Gensokyo is real, it's the world/dimention/whatever you call it, where mysteries and Fantasies that doesn't exist in real life live for real , and Reimu is the embodiement of this world of dreams, so she doesn't exist in the real world. although of course if she cross the Hakurei barrier (ie: the boundary between fantasy and reality), she, or anyone from gensokyo, CAN go to the real word, and Humans from the real world like Maribel can go into gensokyo...
in my idea,Gensokyo isn't anyone in particular's creation, it just came into existence itself as soon as humans started to have dreams and Imagination.
what i don't like in Conceald the Conclusion's idea is that all of Gensokyo being just one person's dream, it's too reductory and i really think ZUN meant it as being the land of all dreams and fantasies in general.
also, why whould marisa whould be Randomly a Human from the real world allowed in another's dream...? there is nothing in particular that could point to this in official material...
if anything, if you prefer that idea that Gensokyo is just One Person's Imaginary world, then Yukari is a Far better candidate because of her connection with the Real World Maribel, and being generally the Overseer of Gensokyo of sorts...
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It occurs to me that there actually may not be a Hakurei Shrine God at all.
Firstly, the Shrine itself (the Gensokyo half at least) is NOT hallowed ground; everyone and anyone in the Touhou cast can freely step into and out of the place. It's not even protected from periodic demolishing (ask Tenshi and Rika, both of who managed to demolish the joint), and blowing the Shrine up doesn't seem to cause Gensokyo to unravel.
In other words, its only a model; Rinnosuke's secret answer to who the Hakurei God is could very well be "nobody". >_>'
It's not like the Hakurei ever needed to enshrine anyone anyway. The Hakurei have a spiritual reputation so great (or personal faith so plentiful) that Reimu actually shares faith with the Moriyas (not the other way round!), and all she has to do to get a block of palladium is to casually ask the God of Metallurgy for it. :3
Note that Gensokyo' s supposed defense mechanism supposedly kicks in only when Reimu is offed, not when the Shrine is demolished, so there is no need for the Shrine to be a temple.
Why else do you think the Shrine has no worshippers? I think all of the Human Village actually realize the Hakurei Shrine is not actually a legitimate worship location. The handful that do make the journey and throw stuff in the box, merely do so out of respect for Reimu. <_<;
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Why else do you think the Shrine has no worshippers? I think all of the Human Village actually realize the Hakurei Shrine is not actually a legitimate worship location. The handful that do make the journey and throw stuff in the box, merely do so out of respect for Reimu. <_<;
I always thought they never came to worship because of the amount of youkai that show up there.
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I just wish Rinnosuke would stop being a huge jerk and just tell everyone.
I am pretty sure there are many others in the Touhou universe that know who the Hakurei god is. Akyuu, Keine, Yukari, Yuyuko, and many others. However, Reimu doesn't know who the Hakurei God is.
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Other ideas that i like include, in order of preference:
-All of Gensokyo itself and everyone within it; in other worlds, the Shrine dedicated Fantasy/Mystery in general, pretty much ties in with my Reimu main idea, except that here, gensokyo itself is the god, without having took physical form (cause the shrine is too destitute). Reimu herself, then, is just the Miko serving the god of Gensokyo, who can't manifest. She isn't that god without knowing it.
-Yukari
-ZUN
-YOU! the player (Nice one, Mikuru, i never tought about it, i like this idea too!)
I'll throw in my own candidate here and say...
-Cirno! ...Except she doesn't quite know it yet. Like... at all. But she is the strongest after all.
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Well, if the Hakurei god was revealed, humans would probably start worshipping it a lot, thus increasing its power. And since the Hakurei shrine's blessing is youkai extermination, it will probably start exterminating youkai on the spot as the old guy said (still, they aren't the species that needs protection in Gensokyo, and noone would care if Medicine or Seija got killed for good).
Also, the Hakurei barrier was namely made by humans, but was Yukari who prepared it, and most likely she had a big role in the actual construction since she was the one who proposed it, and Reimu calls Yukari the "creator" of the barrier in Wahh.
If the god was involved in the barrier, its powers would have conflicted with Yukari's, a youkai, making it impossible to build it in the first place.
On the other hand, you could say the "youkai extermination god" is almost powerless simply because after the barrier was made, exterminations became really rare, thus people stopped relying on the god reducing its importance and powers.
What if Yukari IS the Hakurei God? (Both have thier names hidden and IIRC Rinnosuke claims to know both.)
If ZUN is going to repeat the MoF->SA->UFO->TD thing, TH 15 will probably have something to do with Seija and Shinmyoumaru, or at least the Miracle Mallet :V
Actually Kobito's like Shinmyoumaru are in the border between existence and extinction because there is only Shinmyoumaru.
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There are a few facts (or apparent facts) we know about the Hakurei God, to disprove some theories or support some others.
We can be relatively assured he (or she) exists because Byakuren senses s/he's mad at Reimu in Reimu's UFO ending. This also makes it unlikely (but not completely impossible if you twist your definitions a little) that Reimu is the Hakurei god.
Also, Rinnosuke knows who it is (and thus, likely others, cause Rinnosuke didn't act like it was some special secret only he knew).
We also know that Reimu's shrine was once taken over by an evil spirit instead.
And we know its blessing is youkai extermination (from Oriental Sacred Place).
Pre-windows, Mima (an evil spirit) herself did take over the shrine, and also pondered becoming the hakurei god, but ditched the idea so she could goof around more. Of course, that's pre-windows.