Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Sara's Audio-Visual Import-Overflow Retail => Topic started by: Mеа on February 04, 2015, 09:08:16 AM
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For any discussion of any Gundam show/series.
I've seen Zeta, Wing/EW, Turn A, Seed, Destiny, Stargazer, 00 (all 3), Unicorn, and Build Fighters (the first one). Technically I haven't seen Unicorn's last ova yet. I also want to get started on ZZ sometime because, I mean, Haman. Just Haman.
And the only reason I started this thread is, besides talking about good things with good people, because of a sudden fridge moment I had. I'd hate to stand a dead horse back up only to beat it back down again, but this is about the controversial Turn A vs. 00 argument (is this technically a power level discussion??). So for a short while I was of the opinion that Turn A had the edge with the ML Butterfly. Then I ran into a very convincing argument that said that the ML Butterfly nanomachines operate on the nano scale, while GN particles are on the pico scale. Which means that the nanomachines can't do anything against GN Fields. With that, the only objective basis we have in the comparison fades away, and all that's left is very vague technological nonsense. GN Fields and I-fields are incomparable, as is any GN technology vs Minovsky particle technology. Armor is also incomparable. And since the Turn A 100% output functionality is very obscure and non-canon anyway, the discussion kind of dies off, with the general consensus being that the 00 (or Qan-T) has a slight upper edge because of quantization and more offensive options. And so for the longest time, I held this opinion.
My fridge moment was this: supposing that the Turn-A can teleport things (itself, armaments, its beams, etc. The more common argument for the beams being that the Turn A could potentially warp the shots from its beam rifle directly into the enemy MS's cockpit), what if it could teleport ML Butterfly nanomachines directly inside an enemy machine? This completely bypasses external defense systems like I-fields or GN fields or GN-particle coated armor plates, etc etc. And because the 'attack' is so small-scale, so to speak, I have to wonder if quantization would kick in at all.
Random musings.
In other related topics, is anyone watching Reconguista in G? How is it?
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I've heard it's amazing. I also recommend huuuuuuugely watching the new Build Fighters as well as some of the older UC series like Stardust Memory (best Gundam of all time don't fight me on this) and War in the Pocket (prepare to cry). I'd stay away from 08th MS Team because it really screws up the canon and it's not that great. F91 is weird and Crossbone is even stranger but they're still good. You also owe yourself to watch Char's Counterattack, although if you're like me you'll want to punch Quess in the head several times for being a brat.
If you want even more Tomino depression, I highly recommend Ideon. It's basically Gundam when Tomino is off his antidepressants. It's really really really good but it's really depressing.
And the only reason I started this thread is, besides talking about good things with good people, because of a sudden fridge moment I had. I'd hate to stand a dead horse back up only to beat it back down again, but this is about the controversial Turn A vs. 00 argument (is this technically a power level discussion??). So for a short while I was of the opinion that Turn A had the edge with the ML Butterfly. Then I ran into a very convincing argument that said that the ML Butterfly nanomachines operate on the nano scale, while GN particles are on the pico scale. Which means that the nanomachines can't do anything against GN Fields. With that, the only objective basis we have in the comparison fades away, and all that's left is very vague technological nonsense. GN Fields and I-fields are incomparable, as is any GN technology vs Minovsky particle technology. Armor is also incomparable. And since the Turn A 100% output functionality is very obscure and non-canon anyway, the discussion kind of dies off, with the general consensus being that the 00 (or Qan-T) has a slight upper edge because of quantization and more offensive options. And so for the longest time, I held this opinion.
My fridge moment was this: supposing that the Turn-A can teleport things (itself, armaments, its beams, etc. The more common argument for the beams being that the Turn A could potentially warp the shots from its beam rifle directly into the enemy MS's cockpit), what if it could teleport ML Butterfly nanomachines directly inside an enemy machine? This completely bypasses external defense systems like I-fields or GN fields or GN-particle coated armor plates, etc etc. And because the 'attack' is so small-scale, so to speak, I have to wonder if quantization would kick in at all.
Random musings.
Considering it's half canon that Turn-A is actually set in the UC universe in the far far future, Turn-A would most likely have the best of the best of the technology of that era. Plus any tech after Tomino moved on from Gundam tends to be pseudo-babble bullshit (although the newtype stuff towards the end started turning into space magic anyways).
As dumb as power level arguments are, that's what Build Fighters is for :D!
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I was a huge Gundam nerd up until OO. After that, I've stopped watching the shows, not 'cause I didn't want to. I just find myself not being hooked in the mecha genre anymore. For some reason around hitting the age of near adulthood, slice of life, comedy, tragedy, and drama, has been most of my cup of tea up till now. Although I will probably pick it up again in the future.
That said, my favorite of the series will be Seed, followed by W, then OO.
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I'd stay away from 08th MS Team because it really screws up the canon and it's not that great.
get out
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I'd stay away from 08th MS Team because it really screws up the canon and it's not that great.
SOMEONE BAN THIS MONSTER
I got into Gundam when Wing was on Toonami; I watched it in college with my friend who later became my roommate. The years went by and I watched no other Gundam show until Seed and Destiny, and only a few years after did I watch the original 0079 series via the movie compilations. Zeta and Double Zeta followed only within the last two years, along with War in the Pocket, Stardust Memory, 08th, and of course Build Fighters/BF Try. I still need to play some of the English PS2 games that have all the side stories to see what all the Johnny Ridden hype is about.
Aila is mai Gundam waifu
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I started out with SEED and then Destiny around three or four years ago and then decided to watch everything in the order it was released. My favourite series by far is the second season of 00, but I've still got a bit of a soft spot for X. I keep procrastinating on starting AGE though.
Reconguista is pretty good so far, but it took a little bit to get used to the way that Tomino decided to have it animated. It's like a mix of how Zeta and ZZ were animated with modern animation.
Can't get enough of the latest Build Fighters series though. Freaking loved the first season and the second is proving to be equally as awesome.
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get out
Fight me >:( 08th MS Team was beyond campy and the whole dumb Romeo and Juliet romance story was trite. Not saying that Gundam is always full of good writing, but of all the UC series it is by far the worst. There's just... so much better out there.
AC series, well.. we can really scrape the bottom of the barrel with those (lol SEED Destiny).
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Fight me >:( 08th MS Team was beyond campy and the whole dumb Romeo and Juliet romance story was trite. Not saying that Gundam is always full of good writing, but of all the UC series it is by far the worst. There's just... so much better out there.
AC series, well.. we can really scrape the bottom of the barrel with those (lol SEED Destiny).
1) I will fight you irl for this
2) I'm not saying Gundam's romances have been good (lol Stardust Memory) but other than that, 08th was not only completely within UC0079 canon but it was integral to the franchise itself. We needed more boots-on-the-ground One Year War situations. There isn't much better out there, period. You cannot tell me that the Packard fight was a bad thing.
3) AC is Wing, CE is Seed. :smug:
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I keep procrastinating on starting AGE though.
Reconguista is pretty good so far, but it took a little bit to get used to the way that Tomino decided to have it animated. It's like a mix of how Zeta and ZZ were animated with modern animation.
For all the crap I hear about AGE, apparently the original novelization was actually good.
And if that's true about Reconguista, I'm really excited because I was starting to grow tired of how shiny, colorful, and 'mainstream' anime-style things were getting. The animation style in Age looked too childish, and even the designs of 00 season two were starting to get weird and cutesy. Everything after 00 started having that same recent and distinctive look that I'm not liking. Build Fighters is different though, the entire point of that is that it's not a war, and hence cool that we can have some fun/cutesy Gundam shows too.
Also I'm an idiot because, yes, I did watch Char's Counterattack. I also forgot that I'm midway through 08th MS team, and I was enjoying it. Whatever anyone says about it, no one tops the Ball vs Zaku fight. Totally channels the GaoGaiGar. CC didn't strike me as too great though. Probably since it thrusts you in the middle of the original novel base, which was confusing. And since my only exposure to Amuro and Char were through Z, where they don't have any rivalries, I didn't have any satisfaction in seeing them settle the score. I guess it's because the Sinanju looks too awesome. They kind of seemed like bros almost in Z.
And yeah, Shinn's a fucker I love to hate, but someone made a really good argument about how he was justified in his angst. And through much frustration and ego swallowing, I've come to terms with him.
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I too cut my Gundam teeth on Wing, via Toonami. Its aged like 50 year old milk IMO, but still holds a special place in my heart. I've since gotten quite deep into UC Gundam, and can't take any of the alt. verses seriously anymore (not that G-Gundam was ever meant to be taken seriously). The exception is Gundam X which I find to be the strongest of the alternates by far.
I'll be the umpteenth person to disagree with TSO regarding 08th MS Team. For me, its right up there in greatness with the original series, Stardust Memory and War in the pocket. That said, even UC has its hiccups for me. I didn't enjoy Zeta all that much; overrated trite with nary a likable character. Decent battle scenes with lackluster everything else. I have the same problems with Reconguista, though its characters are simply boring to me, as opposed to Zeta's insufferable.
I've since dropped Reconguista and have returned to pining for the second season of Knights of Sidonia, along with the disposable income needed for the final Unicorn OVA.
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I'll be the umpteenth person to disagree with TSO regarding 08th MS Team. For me, its right up there in greatness with the original series, Stardust Memory and War in the pocket. That said, even UC has its hiccups for me. I didn't enjoy Zeta all that much; overrated trite with nary a likable character. Decent battle scenes with lackluster everything else. I have the same problems with Reconguista, though its characters are simply boring to me, as opposed to Zeta's insufferable.
This is how I know how broken of a person you are.
1) I will fight you irl for this
Slapfight at the basketball court at 4, bring your slide rule.
2) I'm not saying Gundam's romances have been good (lol Stardust Memory) but other than that, 08th was not only completely within UC0079 canon but it was integral to the franchise itself. We needed more boots-on-the-ground One Year War situations. There isn't much better out there, period. You cannot tell me that the Packard fight was a bad thing.
The thing is they bent a LOT of canon to make it fit in. Gundams didn't fight in the One Year War because the war was over too quickly for Gundams to ever go into mass production (not like Anaheim could/wanted to... that's another argument though). That alone drives me up the wall. There's other annoyances I had (turning down a beam saber does not let you make a sauna in siberia :[) but it's been forever since I've watched it.
3) AC is Wing, CE is Seed. :smug:
I call anything not UC AC, dwi. BV
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so many incorrect words
you are so incorrect
how does it feel being a dirty secondary casual
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you are so incorrect
how does it feel being a dirty secondary casual
I bet Kira is your favorite pilot.
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I bet Kira is your favorite pilot.
o crap these provocations
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I bet Kira is your favorite pilot.
That's not how you spell "Ramba Ral"
This is what happens when you have all the wrong tastes in Gundam, you conflate the knowledge of canon with affiliation to era.
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That's not how you spell "Ramba Ral"
This is what happens when you have all the wrong tastes in Gundam, you conflate the knowledge of canon with affiliation to era.
Realtalk tho I think Unicorn and Victory Gundam are absolutely amazing and Gundam the Origin is probably the best thing ever to grace this planet. I think it has moreso to do with that at the time 08th MS Team aired here in the colonies, so did Stardust Memory and War in the Pocket. Those two were so outstandingly good that what were probably minor annoyances with 08th were greatly amplified. That and I also got the Zeta Gundam boxset and I kind of got exposed to almost all of the best of the UC at the same time.
Considering I still think Wing is up there at the top (obviously Turn A and G Gundam win, Build Fighters is a close second) of the AC series, I have no doubt my tastes are trash and I don't care. I'll admit I only passively watched Seed (and never touched Destiny) and only ever saw the 00 movie which confused the hell out of me.
(Chris Mackenzie is the best pilot and Alex is my Gundam waifu)
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So now that I've thoroughly killed the thread... Has anyone been reading Gundam the Origin? I've heard nothing but awesome things about it but dropping $20 a volume is pretty steep for me :[
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So now that I've thoroughly killed the thread... Has anyone been reading Gundam the Origin? I've heard nothing but awesome things about it but dropping $20 a volume is pretty steep for me :[
I've been reading it via :filez: and it's a darn good graphic novel interpretation of the original series. Covers some of the more nuanced bits of Char and Garma's interaction quite well, at least for where I'm at.
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I have to have it in hand, I hate reading on my phone or tablet unless I have to (scanlation :S).
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I've read it. at least volumes 1 through 3 that is. It helps to have a library around that has them. :)