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(http://i.imgur.com/OoIucEi.png)
You think you're ready for Kunihiko Ikuhara's latest wild ride? You bet your ass you're not.
Directed by the mastermind behind Utena and Mawaru Penguindrum, we're thrust into a setting where bears and humans are separated by a seemingly insurmountable wall, after... an asteroid exploded and caused all bears to wage delicious war on humankind? Yeah, this is pretty weird.
Join us as student Tsubaki Kureha tries to not give up on love! And uh... to not get eaten? To search what she desires? To not fall down the stairs again? I dunno, man.
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gao gao delicious honey
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NO ONE SURVIVED... THE LESBIAN BEAR STORM
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Directed by the mastermind behind Utena and Mawaru Penguindrum
I KNEW IT
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I'll finish Utena some year. I'll try another thing from him if there's even a chance it will be like that but actually polished.
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Been anticipating this ever since "Penguinbear" was revealed like two years ago. Not disappointed so far (not that I expected to be).
Let's also not forget that this is also a collaboration with Akiko Morishima too, who did the character design as well as the manga (which is apparently entirely different from the anime). She's by far my favorite yuri mangaka. :D
EDIT: also oh god please give me the full single of the OP I love it so much
I know a lot of people don't dig the whole harsh whisper style of singing but dear god this song is wonderful
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So basically, this show is going to be Ikuhara's standard overwrought histrionic symbolism with yuri.
This thing is being over-hyped why? Because I'm not seeing the hype. I am seeing Ikuhara furiously masturbating to his own pretentiousness on-screen, however, and I'm really sorry, but that doesn't sound like a good show to me.
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Okay. Have fun not watching it then?
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Well, everyone and their mother is treating this show like it's the second coming of Jesus, so I thought I might as well put in my input. The only good part was with the three bishies, but otherwise...I didn't feel it one bit. I don't like yuri at all, and even though I like pretentious wankfests this show is just absurd with the pretentious wankery.
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Chagen.
We banned you once for being Chagen.
Please refrain from continuing to be Chagen, effective immediately.
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Okay fine...I wont go in this thread again.
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Outbursts like Razzi Zadhna's were probably what kept me from deleting my account on this site.
It's nice that the community's open enough to invite friction that isn't just drama or attention whoring, but legitimate disenchantment or disapproval.
In any case, I'm not familiar with Kunihiko Ikuhara, but I did like this first episode.
Surreal background art and pretty well-done criminal scene with the little number signs for evidence.
Also, how, when the bears snipped the heads off of all those flowers in the garden bed, the girls, rather than panicking or crying in each others arms, actually resolved to replant them. Very awesome.
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I'm giving Yuri Kuma Arashi the same shot I did as Utena and Penguindrum. I'll be honest - I see why people like them but Ikuhara's previous works just seem to be excuses to couch storytelling in symbolism.
I am no king of literary criticism so I won't try to draw comparisons, simply because I can't think of parallel works. It's just that to me, it seems like it's consistently overkill.
I gave Utena 10-11 eps, Penguindrum 6ish, I think. It just seemed like it was too heavy on Things Being Symbolic and less on characters being human. Maybe I missed something, maybe it's the symbolism itself that's the story, but I don't really see it.
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I'm giving Yuri Kuma Arashi the same shot I did as Utena and Penguindrum. I'll be honest - I see why people like them but Ikuhara's previous works just seem to be excuses to couch storytelling in symbolism.
I am no king of literary criticism so I won't try to draw comparisons, simply because I can't think of parallel works. It's just that to me, it seems like it's consistently overkill.
I gave Utena 10-11 eps, Penguindrum 6ish, I think. It just seemed like it was too heavy on Things Being Symbolic and less on characters being human. Maybe I missed something, maybe it's the symbolism itself that's the story, but I don't really see it.
I've had a very similar experience. Utena's been forced on me so much I haven't been able to stomach it past the first few episodes. Part of it was Things Being Symbolic and the rest is some rather unfortunate peer pressure.
This sounds silly based on the description and doesn't (seem to) come with weighty sociopolitical commentary.
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I choose to ignore all symbolism and instead it's about bears eating people.
Literallly attack on titan, but with bears, you see.
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SIE SIND DAS BEAR UND WIR SIND DIE LESBIAN
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SIE SIND DAS BEAR UND WIR SIND DIE LESBIAN
That day, the human race remembered: the terror of being molested by them, and the shame of being held captive in an all-girls high school.
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Okay after the first episode I think this is definitely not for me. Not enough free time to debate metaphor in my life.
I'm just gonna watch Yuki Yuna and Shirobako, having spent too much time on Reconguista in G this season.
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Reconguista in G
I am so sorry for your loss.
(I'm watching the rest of it because it is a fantastic excuse to drink a lot)
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I thought your excuse was "I inhaled oxygen today"
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I just figured that anything with bears and lesbians is a show I should at least check out.
So far it's good, although I can't tell if there's symbolism I'm missing or the show's just that surreal.
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A sizable portion of Ikuhara's Symbolic Things are less of "this has a deeper meaning" and more of "this looks cool". Don't get me wrong, he has some pretty clever stuff in his work, but not everything he throws on the screen is symbolism. I don't know, maybe I'm just dumb and everything is deep and it's all been flying over my head.
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A lot of Ikuhara's work, especially Penguindrum and Yuri Kuma Arashi, revolves around a combination of symbolism and surrealism (at least I'm predicting the hell out of that for Lesbears). Some of it exists to serve a point through metaphors, the rest is just weird and outlandish because Ikuhara himself is a weird and outlandish guy. Consider it his style.
On the surface, Penguindrum makes little sense, unless you analyze the symbolism. To some it is rather pretentious, but for a lot of us, the interpretation is part of the fun. It's like reading poetry-- interpretations vary from person to person. And I think that's kind of the point: you get out of it what you want to get out of it.
Penguindrum was bizarre as all hell but a lot of it revolved around the concept of what makes a family (Shouma, Kanba, and Himari lived as a family of siblings, but in reality there was no blood relation between them. Meanwhile, Kanba was Masako's brother by blood, but for much of the series they were adversaries. A lot of this was due their memories being messed up, but even after they get those memories back, Shouma, Kanba, and Himari still all love each other as siblings
) as well as the concept of "should children be compelled to atone for the sins of their parents" (Shouma and Kanba's parents were responsible for terrorist attacks when the boys were kids, and they felt responsible for their parents' actions, and considering Himari's failing health and imminent death(s) as their punishment
), and also the notion of whether or not fate and destiny are real-- and if they are, is it a good or a bad thing? Is it something to be anticipated and accepted, or resisted and defied? Everyone in Penguindrum is so delightfully messed up and I enjoyed it immensely for being able to analyze the characters' thought processes on life.
The Penguin aesthetic though? That's just one thing I never read anything from beyond "Ikuhara is being silly". You have to remember this is the dude who turned half the cast of Utena into cars for the sake of a metaphor.
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Hm. Maybe I should give Penguindrum another day in court.
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Hm. Maybe I should give Penguindrum another day in court.
I may not be a fan of these shows and/or Ikuhara but after WELCOME TO ROCK AND ROLL NIGHT, the court thing was dumb :-(
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I like the Shoujo aesthetic of Utena a lot, and it hit a zenith for me during that filler arc with the haunted dorm and the coffins and that guy with the black rose. That all turned out to be basically time-wasting gibberish in the end unfortunately even within the context of a show that's basically just time-wasting gibberish as far as I can tell anyway. But as it was ongoing it was Weird Fiction in upper case in the best way, in that it seemed to have internal logic but that logic wasn't fully clear to the audience and didn't need to be to tell the story. That is possibly my favorite kind of storytelling, and I think I could almost endorse that arc had it been its own show. Unfortunately it was floating in a sea of re-used (if pretty great, the first ten times) animation and endlessly looping plot points so it's not really worth the amount of digging it takes to get to. I'm told the Utena movies are where it's at though, so eventually I'll get to those and find out if that's true. And that's my nearly-unrelated piece on Utena. So, uh, I'm gonna go watch the show in question if I can get my streaming to buffer, which seems like a tall order right now.
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The Black Rose arc was neither filler nor gibberish, though. It was all about character development, and the symbolism is so obvious that there are, in at least two moments I recall, LITERALLY flashing arrows pointing at it (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7726.msg489083.html#msg489083). Mikage is manipulating people into trying to defeat Anthy so he can make his dying friend Mamiya the new Rose Bride-- and he does a lot of this manipulation by drawing out the worst in people-- their weaknesses, their insecurities, their flaws-- and they basically face their weakness to either overcome it or be defeated. There are lots of references to metamorphosis in the arc as well, as seen by the larva/cocoon/butterfly pictures-- and the progress is generally seen going forward or backward based on whether or not a character is growing or regressing. One of the climaxes of the arc is through Utena's own growth, in which her strength as a person comes from herself rather than relying solely on Anthy, and this is shown by having the sword that Utena usually draws from Anthy knocked away, leaving her defenseless. Just as she's about to be defeated, the roles are reversed and Anthy draws the sword from Utena, and achieves victory through power in which she herself is the source.
Also, the coffins represent stasis or empty motion in context of character growth. It's a dark, secure place, but you'll never grow as a person if you remain trapped within your own hesitance or refusal to step forward.
I may be off on a few things there, it's been a few years since I've watched Utena, but my point is that a lot of things in Utena actually does make sense if you watch it all and piece it all together. A habit Ikuhara seems to have is allowing viewers to make their own interpretations or analyses without giving context right away-- but gives pieces of the context in small doses the farther you get into the series. The same goes for Penguindrum. The first half of Penguindrum is nonsensical and absurd, but then episode 12 happens and then the floodgates of context begin to open.
In other words, while the show is airing, enjoy the ride for what it is and have fun making sense of it as you please. Things will make more sense as context is given.
By the way, there's only one Utena movie, and it won't make a single ounce of sense to you if you haven't seen the ending to the anime. (Think of it as a New Game+ for a certain character in the series.)
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"should children be compelled to atone for the sins of their parents"
I want to note that Penguindrum was also more broadly about adults screwing up children's lives and those children dealing with that, which is why I almost stopped watching it because I got so angry.
I enjoy surrealism a lot though, so I will be watching Yurikuma, though I have to wait till my friend and wife are available so I'll probably be at least a week behind the thread.
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Definitely that too. I just didn't want to go into detail on that one because holy shit. .____.
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The Black Rose arc was neither filler nor gibberish, though. It was all about character development, and the symbolism is so obvious that there are, in at least two moments I recall, LITERALLY flashing arrows pointing at it (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7726.msg489083.html#msg489083). Mikage is manipulating people into trying to defeat Anthy so he can make his dying friend Mamiya the new Rose Bride-- and he does a lot of this manipulation by drawing out the worst in people-- their weaknesses, their insecurities, their flaws-- and they basically face their weakness to either overcome it or be defeated. There are lots of references to metamorphosis in the arc as well, as seen by the larva/cocoon/butterfly pictures-- and the progress is generally seen going forward or backward based on whether or not a character is growing or regressing. One of the climaxes of the arc is through Utena's own growth, in which her strength as a person comes from herself rather than relying solely on Anthy, and this is shown by having the sword that Utena usually draws from Anthy knocked away, leaving her defenseless. Just as she's about to be defeated, the roles are reversed and Anthy draws the sword from Utena, and achieves victory through power in which she herself is the source.
Also, the coffins represent stasis or empty motion in context of character growth. It's a dark, secure place, but you'll never grow as a person if you remain trapped within your own hesitance or refusal to step forward.
I may be off on a few things there, it's been a few years since I've watched Utena, but my point is that a lot of things in Utena actually does make sense if you watch it all and piece it all together. A habit Ikuhara seems to have is allowing viewers to make their own interpretations or analyses without giving context right away-- but gives pieces of the context in small doses the farther you get into the series. The same goes for Penguindrum. The first half of Penguindrum is nonsensical and absurd, but then episode 12 happens and then the floodgates of context begin to open.
In other words, while the show is airing, enjoy the ride for what it is and have fun making sense of it as you please. Things will make more sense as context is given.
Maybe I was unclear, I don't think anything in particular in Utena literally doesn't make sense. Enough of the symbolism is blunt enough that it's clear what everything is supposed to be, not to mention that the plot literally is explained and does make sense without any of the supernatural elements. I meant "gibberish", probably inaccurately, in the sense that as soon as that arc ends it retcons itself out of the show, meaning that everything that happens during it retroactively doesn't matter and was a waste of time.
I quit watching for like six months because I was not too happy to see that the substantial chunk of time I invested in watching, and enjoying, that arc was actually dismissed as basically meaningless by the show itself, which already has a lot of arguably meaningless content by virtue of the fact that much of it is just the same episode on a loop with no new developments. That in itself has some meaning of course, but the number of times it's necessary to do that is up for debate, and I would argue it's far less than the show decided to go for.
Of course I haven't finished watching yet, so maybe I'm wrong about all of this and the Black Rose arc does actually matter and I just haven't seen the impact yet, but for all intents up to what I've seen it could be cut entirely without losing a single thing. The character development it invests in either refers to characters that no longer exist or has yet to be called back to as of four or five episodes from the end, but I recognize that that could change at some point. And of course all of the character development matters internally, which is why I said that I almost wish that arc had been its own, entirely separate show so that it wouldn't have to reconcile itself with fitting into something larger.
By the way, there's only one Utena movie, and it won't make a single ounce of sense to you if you haven't seen the ending to the anime. (Think of it as a New Game+ for a certain character in the series.)
Oh, okay, I thought there were like three for some reason. But yeah, I understand it has to be watching in order, which is why I haven't just skipped ahead to that.
As for Yuri Kuma Arashi, I successfully watched the first five minutes before my internet broke and I gave up and went to bed. The aesthetic is definitely there, which is cool. And it seems to be a fairly broad comedy at least on some level (as was Utena nearly all of the time, which people forget sometimes) which makes dismissing it as pretentious hard for me. It seems to understand what it is, and I respect that. But of course that was a first impression from five minutes. Maybe that's not actually the tone of the show, I don't know. I liked the first segment, it was fun.
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Hello, I just came from the Yuri Kuma Arashi thread on ADTRW. The thread is so gold it's worth paying for SA just to read it.
I'm not even into Ikuhara but the amount of sheer glorious gold has me laughing at the office over the trolls, weird feelings, and other goonish behavior within the thread.
Going back now, see you all in six more pages.
Seriously, so much gold you could melt it and hock it for a good chunk of change.
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I actually didn't know anything about ADTRW or SA until just now, after seeing you mention it then searching it up.
Uh, apparently it's a funny forum you have to pay to get an account on? And they even have subscriptions, so you can read stuff on a forum..?
I don't know what to think, because, at the very least, this is definitely unusual.
Could you screencap a page of that thread or something, as a sampler? I'm considering actually paying the $10 to make an account.
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SA is a good place to be if you can not only separate yourself from the fact that the internet is full of stupid people, stupid things, total absurdity, and horror, and bring some popcorn to laugh with fellow goons as you watch.
Let us show an example of this thread in all its finery.
(http://i.imgur.com/K6q9ox6.png)
Later on it degenerates into "THIS IS PEDOPHILIA, LESBIAN PEDOPHILIA" and "more Liberal kowtowing to disgusting alternative lifestyles" by a guy who was banned, and the fun part about SA, you can link back to see when people were banned, why, and a link to the post in question that got the deed done.
Furthermore it contains useful and informative discussion.
The $10 is basically a way to filter out annoying people who A) can't get a bank account, B) can't get a credit card, C) can't figure out how to buy things online, and D) have a financial incentive to not be all that bad, lest you get banned and have to buy your way back in for $10.
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So, just watched the first episode and, like Matsy, already trying to free associate stuff to predict what the symbols mean.
If it's ok to say stuff in spoilers, the big themes I'm noting thus far beside the extremely obvious (bears and lesbians herp), is the concept of "eating" and the concept of separation, which is expressed in some obvious and not so obvious ways. I just realized this /right now/, but just what is an all-girls school but separation from the outside world. Uh, anyway, there are other things but my mind is kind of running wild on the many implications of separation, particularly given the yuri theme and Morishima Akiko being involved. Of course, it's one episode so not much can be concluded without further context.
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I'm treating this as a fun project where Ikuhara pulls whatever he wants and I watch it because it's amusing. Specially since I don't think it's as ambitious as Penguindrum, what with being announced after it and I think it only has 12 episodes and also lesbian bears.
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So my first thoughts
At first blush it seems to be about the definition of yuri itself, the innocence vs sexuality angle seems obvious. I highly doubt it will remain this way all the way through though.
It reminded me of this quote from the afterward of this (http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/yuri_idol)doujin.
"Nowadays, gentle, healing-type yuri is what's mainstream. But I think that full-on romantic yuri, or immoral, lustful yuri would be very nice as well. There is a bit of controversy that one you cross that line, it no longer becomes yuri, but as long as there are two girls, why not just let it be yuri?
The manga I draw mostly uses green humor as a base for the gags so it is a little of the beaten path, if I do say so myself.
But there is freedom in yuri. Probably."
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So this came from SA, posting in its unredacted but spoilered entirety. I think this'll be my "yeah, that's Yuri Kuma Arashi" nod as I move on, but like any good threadshit I figure I'd fling this and run.
OK, first off, let's state the blindingly obvious - this is a show about yuri. It's called Yuri Bear Storm, the female characters are labelled 'yuri', and there's a literal court that determines what is and is not acceptable yuri. Since Ikuhara is one of those highfalutin directors who includes messages and themes and all that shit in his work, it seems reasonable to guess that we're looking at an examination of the yuri genre and Japanese attitudes towards female homosexuality in general. It's not 100% sure what he'll say about this, but it's clear that he's addressing it.
With that in mind, let's look at the history and origins of yuri as a popular literary genre. Around the early twentieth century, a socioliterary trend called Class S took off. Inspired by the Western concept of romantic friendship, which had been imported via Victorian literature during Meiji Japan's frantic Westernisation, it held that girls should form close, romantic friendships with each other in order to train themselves as proper wives for their future husbands, as part of the 'good wife, wise mother' philosophy brought in to indoctrinate Japanese women as good little baby-factories for the expanding empire. It had a lot of cross-pollination with the legendary Takurazuka Revue founded in 1914, which I'm sure many Ikuhara fans are familiar with. For the uninitiated, the Revue is a musical theatre troupe based on traditional Japanese kabuki, with the big twist that rather than being all-male, the actors are all-female. It's loud, hammy, garish, and hyper-stylised - sound familiar? Anyway, Takurazuka occupies a complex place in Japanese feminism and LGBT rights. It's often viewed as a liberating force, allowing women to escape the bounds of their gender, but while the actors are women, the whole spectacle is very male-controlled - the directors and backstage staff heavily skew towards men, and the original creator of the Revue, Ichizo Kobayashi, was a wealthy industrialist (the president of the Hankyu Railway company, in fact, which is why the Revue's named after the Hankyu Takurazuka line in Osaka and the actresses are all employees of Hankyu Railway) who created it as a training ground for housewives in-keeping with the Meiji 'good wife, wise mother' ideal.
Class S had a major impact on Japanese attitudes to lesbians. It meant that same-sex relationships between girls were acceptable if they didn't go too far, and if they were stepping stones on the path to a proper, heterosexual marriage. Adult lesbians were shunned and treated as immature/in need of a good hard dicking. This was reflected in Japanese lesbian fiction, yuri, where two options were traditionally presented to the main characters. One is 'Story A', a light, fluffy romance juuust this side of a close friendship where two girls like each other, discover they like each other... and then the final curtain slams down like a guillotine before the relationship can develop beyond holding hands, gazing soulfully into each other's eyes, and maybe a kiss if they're lucky. More sexual lesbian relationships tend to end in death or some other permanent, tragic separation, as the girls receive karmic retribution for violating society's norms, in much the same way as Hays Code-era crime movies showed gangsters being cool and awesome for almost their whole runtime before they were abruptly punished for their crimes in the last few minutes.
Now let's look at how this applies to Yuri Bear Storm. There's a clear contrast between the bears and the humans set up here. Kureha and Sumika's relationship is extremely chaste and desexualised, but still faces systemic opposition. The girls are dwarfed by enormous buildings and literally walled into their society. Their world is bright and colourful, but very regular and ordered, with a miasma of paranoia and oppression. The bears, on the other hand, are free and enthusiastically, aggressively sexual - they're responsible for 90% minimum of the fanservice and sexual imagery, and eating is an obvious metaphor for sex (rape, in fact). As opposed to the tame, Story A yuri of the human world, they're the predatory 'psycho lesbian' villain stereotype of innumerable Japanese and Western shows. They present a threat that can only be fought by conformity with the social order that controls Kureha and Sumika's lives. Even the bears aren't free, though - they're subordinate to the Court of Severance, the only men in the cast so far, who decide what is and is not acceptably sexy, beautiful, and cool yuri. Remember what I said about the organisation and purpose of the Takarazuka Revue? In fact, if Ikuhara's being self-aware, this might even be commentary on the fact that he, a guy, is directing a yuri show. "Will you be invisible? Or will you eat humans?" is a really telling line - the arbiters of yuri are asking the bears to choose between what is socially acceptable (tame, desexualised same-sex relationships) and unleashing their lust in an aggressive, blatant, and destructive manner. I wouldn't be surprised if the goal here is to preach a middle ground that goes against what either the Court of Severance or the human world will allow - a stable, loving, and openly sexual lesbian relationship. Certainly, that's what the opening seems to champion, with Ginko, Kureha, and Lulu ending it leaning against each other in a happy, naked heap after expressing their mutual affection with a string of kisses.
Basically, the evidence so far seems to suggest that Ikuhara's purpose here is to say 'yo, Japan, your attitude to lesbians is kind of fucked up and restrictive - let the girls have their fun, why don't you?'
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Huh. I like it.
I hope that's the direction this ends up taking, too.
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Oh, wow, that post was really really good forboth the background and likely symbol explanation.
I...admit, I had an underlying feeling about that being what "eating" referred to but I didn't want to jump to that conclusion so quickly. Still, I suppose it makes sense.
So, um, yeah, I'll be bearing all that in mind.
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Yeah, I like it. Makes sense, good direction. Fingers crossed it pays off that way.
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It makes sense, but if that's what Ikuhara's doing then it's unlikely his message will reach anyone that doesn't pretty much already agree with it.
I mean, who would watch this outside of the people who have already been exposed to stuff like it?
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My best guess is that Ikuhara's rolling with intentionally oversexualized material to draw in those who tend to fetishize and objectify lesbians and kind of blow it all up in their faces.
As far as his past work is concerned, he's never gone THIS far over the top with anything explicitly sexual-- Utena had a few moments (mainly the ending of the movie), and Penguindrum only had one outstanding moment and it was by no means meant to be enticing (more like terrifying). And I've yet to watch Sailor Moon R/S/SuperS, so I can't say, but I seriously doubt it.
It doesn't seem like him to do something thematically symbolic and have it have no loaded meaning.
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I've been waiting for this for a while. Never seen anything of Ikuhara's before, but with a name like Lesbian Bear Storm. I just had to give it a shot. He also made Utena, which people really seem to like (too lazy to watch, plus backlog too big :( )
As for the episode itself, I thought it was enjoyable. The theme song seems really weird, and it's great. The symbolism though...Is Ikuhara always this blantant with it? Some of the stuff seems like something I'd expect from Gainax.
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Ep 2 is out and well
huh
the twists began early huh
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So, uh.
"Eating humans" is not the innuendo one would have implied from the OP. Sumika is indeed dead, and has been eaten by Ginko and Lulu.
However, it seems like there's either a competition among bears, or they can't tell who is and is not a bear, since Yurizono was the one to kill the bucktooth girl who turned out to be actually a bear. And Yurizono is also a bear. Everyone is bears. Is everyone with 'Yuri' in their name a bear?
I read what has been translated of the manga and, even if Morishima's story idea is VERY different from Ikuhara's, something stood out to me:
The first translation of "invisible storm" in the manga said "clear storm"-- and it seems true on both accounts that bears seem to prey on those who don't stand out, or, one could say... are clear? Yurizono, who was presumably eating the corpse of bucktooth girl whose name I still cannot remember, said she didn't taste good because she was too visible or something like that-- but Sumika, who did not stand out, was incredibly delicious.
Also, "Kureha" sounds a lot like "clear" if you say it quickly.
Hm.
I've been waiting for this for a while. Never seen anything of Ikuhara's before, but with a name like Lesbian Bear Storm. I just had to give it a shot. He also made Utena, which people really seem to like (too lazy to watch, plus backlog too big :( )
As for the episode itself, I thought it was enjoyable. The theme song seems really weird, and it's great. The symbolism though...Is Ikuhara always this blantant with it? Some of the stuff seems like something I'd expect from Gainax.
Watch Utena, it's worth your time.
And yes, Ikuhara's symbolism is blatant and obscure at the same time. That is to say, you can definitely tell what is symbolic, but you can't tell what exactly the hell it's symbolic of without context. And as context is given over time, so too does the symbolism, if that makes sense.
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I might be misinterpreting the point entirely, but right now I can't think of this as anything but a lesbian-charged game of bear-mafia where we don't even know how many
mafiabears there are in the town.
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Second episode:
Wow, I did not expect that the girl from last episode had actually died. People are getting dead all over the place, that's a surprise.
Other than that, still lookin' good. I think I liked this episode a little more than the first one even. Will keep watching.
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I choose to ignore all symbolism and instead it's about bears eating people.
BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE
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I'm still not sold on Sumika being actually dead. I think she's been removed from the narrative for now, but a couple episodes from the end we'll be in for a...
SHOCK!
KUMA SHOCK!
Which actually ties into another theory I'm kinda developing as I go. As Matsy said, it seemed like everyone with Yuri in their name was a bear. I think that people can be made into bears, and that the "eating" process might tie into this. I think Kureha is basically on the border of bear and person. Arashi helpfully noticed that one of the street names outside Kureha's apartment says "Severance Barrier" (I really hope a Bearier pun comes up before the series is out. It's just too good but I don't know if it'd work in Japanese *pout*), and the way her house is placed is on a crossroads. I'd be paying a lot of attention to which direction people approach her house in when their human/bear status is unknown.
Anyway, I was mildly disappointed by this episode because I figured we'd have a lot thicker symbolism for the first 3 or 4 episodes, and then it would become clearer as we go, but this one didn't add much symbolism and instead added more...background information, I suppose, but not really. I don't know how to describe it. It was satisfying narratively, just didn't poke my symbol sense as hard as episode 1.
And that's basically what I have to say for epi 2.
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hashtag everyone is a bear but homura
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I too really liked MJP's analysis post, even more after episode 2 where
it seemed to fall apart midway when supposed humans Yurizono and Yurikawa started getting really fresh with each other, only to be confirmed back again when they turned out to be bears themselves. It also explained why the hell Yurizono kept quite about the Ginko and Lulu's identity.
One small annoyance I have is that it looks like we are going to be getting a lot of stock footage every episode. Which is par for the course for Ikuhara, but I still feel to be a little overbearing.
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Hmm..I found a Kuma Shock Button. (http://www.myinstants.com/instant/kuma-shock/)
As for episode 3, it looks like people were right about the whole invisible storm = heteronormative thing. I hope Yurizono stays around, I find her one of the more entertaining characters.
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Hmm..I found a Kuma Shock Button. (http://www.myinstants.com/instant/kuma-shock/)
I cut it out of last episode and made a notification tone. It's a little lower quality than that though.
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Geez, I didn't predict the invisible storm thing at all, and it was kind of clear in retrospect. I get an F in symbol interpretation on that one. So, it seems we have a 2 axis struggle. The disapproving majority versus those who won't back down from who they are, and aggressive, in the present love versus passive, steady love...or something like that. Either way, aside from symbols, Yurizono is such a huge jerk, she was wonderful <3.
I'm still standing by my Yuri = Bear thing, so we're in for some KUMA SHOCK regarding the headmaster of the academy, for sure. She probably betrayed Kureha's mom so she could eat her...or maybe she reached some weird love enlightenment like Ginko and Lulu and a third force like Yurizono took Kureha's mom away...it's almost certain that the headmaster is a bear tho.
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Either way, aside from symbols, Yurizono is such a huge jerk, she was wonderful <3.
I agree, Yurizono siting there with a grinning jerk face as the other girls chose to Invisible Storm Kureha, and then mocking Sumika's last words just to anger her was so awesomely evil, I can't help but like her.
And I got the same idea about the principal. I would be surprised if she isn't the bear that ate Kureha's mom.
Other than that, I've been a little bugged by the way they keep using "suki" as a noun to mean "love" (instead of "ai" or "koi"). It makes the sentences involving it sound a little strange and unusual in Japanese. I'm convinced that this must bear some meaning, but I'm not really sure of what.
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I think it really depends on how obvious the Yuri=bear thing is supposed to be. If it's not expected to be obvious, then it'll probably be played as a straight SHOCK! KUMA SHOCK! Re: principal lady. But if you're supposed to kind of have a clue with that, then she'll probably be an example of a "good" bear.
Also, thinking about this, the Invisible Storm is kind of like heteronormativity or the majority imposing their shit on the minority or something like that, but...it's reaaaaaalllly interesting that it's the bears that enforce that imposition. And I'm curious what role that places bears in addition to the kind of aggressive passionate motif.
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Yeah, that makes sense, it is looking like there are "good" bears like Ginko & Lulu, who would symbolize well-resolved lesbians. And, judging by the OP and ED, actually want for Kureha to be together with them by "eating" her (so I guess that beside lesbians that would make them also poly?). And then there are some like Yurizono who bear more resemblance to sexual predators. And so the principal might as well be one of the former examples.
Ironically, the Invisible Storm, isolating the members of society that don't conform, only ends up making them more vulnerable to the predators. So, hey, just like real life!
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My wife has a new hobby, watching the Hannibal tv series and adding her own KUMA SHOCK using the above button.
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Oh boy, it's plot!
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I'm not entirely sure what to make of the sudden plot!
The whole selfish way to self actualization by helping someone find their promise kiss thing, though, is interesting. I...guess it's kind of making fun of yuri where the protagonist lets the woman she loves pursue another "normal" relationship so that said protagonist isn't "imposing" or anything by being weird, and it ends up hurting everyone. But, that model doesn't quite fit since Ginko is clearly after a girl..
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Sorry to double post but episode 5 just happeend and...
Uh...I'm speechless. I...this isn't cool at all! Like, I figured that the whole ~*~let's be friends~*~ thing was fake, but geez, that was one hell of an anvil. So basically, the Invisible Storm, or mainstream society, has noticed predators congregating around their convenient outcast, and are using her as bait, much like the marginalized tend to be sacrificed, to catch one. Hell, it probably goes deeper than that depending on what symbolism Ginko and Lulu are really supposed to have, but, I mean...geez. Just, that episode, I don't even know what to think.
ADDENDUM: In the wake of THE THING happening, I completely forgot Sumika's apparent note, presented with what suspiciously seems like a prediction of her future. Sumika KNOWS things and is still up to stuff, I expect, and it will probably be the only thing that ACTUALLY protects Kureha from the Invisible Storm. More related to THE THING: I look forward to Lulu developing her own love, in light of events. She can't go on without development without Ginko as her crutch.
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(http://a.pomf.se/cebrav.jpg)
floating chunks of salmon-chan make for 10/10 kawaii background
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Yeah, that was an unbearably evil act by the Invisi-Stormfronters there. And not a even cool kind of evil like Yurizono. I still expect Ginko to survive, being a main character and all, unless we're in for a huge IKUNI SHOCK.
I still got a little bit annoyed at Ginko's egotistical delusions and attitude in this episode though. Lulu has genuine feelings for her, but it seems Ginko is just stringing her along in a selfish manner.
[attach=1]
And for a bit of trivia: The military emblem in this scene is actually based on a real Polish one, which was in turn inspired by an actual bear soldier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_%28bear%29).
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I'm sure there was loads of symbolism in episode 6, but you know what? I don't care because that was SUPER FUCKING ADORABLE OH MY GOSH. I am mildly disappointed Ginko wasn't dead (narratively! From a character standpoint I'm happy she's alive!), but I think that Ginko likely getting to be "friends" with Kureha will lead to interesting things for Lulu regardless...and I am very curious what will happen when Kureha finds out Ginko (and Lulu) are bears.
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That post-credits scene, though.
:V
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Aww, that's just how you know the series is winding up. Penguindrum started having post credits scenes at some point, not sure when, I got caught by surprise by one. Definitely later in the series though.
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I am double posting and I don't care. Also episode 8 spoilers.
Episode 8 is NOT OK. IT IS NOT FRIGGEN OK!
Yuri=Bear definitely confirmed with the Yuriika reveal, and I guess you weren't supposed to figure that out 'cuz it got played straight and then WHAT DID LULU SAY ABOUT SUMIKA!? Definitely not killer, we saw a flashback. While Yuriika definitely gave Lulu that note and could have lied, I'm pretty sure that whatever Lulu had to say was somehow worse than killing Sumika, since clearly Ginko DID do something...ah, geez, dammit WHY ISN'T IT NEXT MONDAY ALREADY
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I had the impression that Ginko's crime was bearing witness to Yurizono attacking and eating Sumika and doing nothing to help. Or maybe it was worse, and she somewhat contributed to Sumika getting eaten.
I wonder if it was really Yuriika who sent that note, I'm suspicious it could have been Yurizono, who I suspect is still alive and was Kaoru's lover/killer.
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Looks like you called it, Nietz. "Sumika's Killer's Accomplice" Ikuhara you bastard. SO! I admit my analysis brain wasn't very on for this episode, but, did anyone else notice that Yuriika adopted the identity of one of the VERY FEW MEN in this show before attempting to rape Kureha? I'm also wondering if we just got shown what eating /really/ is, and Ginko didn't witness a killing...but a rape, and did nothing about it, which, uh, yeah, she can get shot all fucking day for that.
Which kind of makes me wonder why I am angrier about her not stopping a potential rape than I am about her not stopping a killing. That's...damn Ikuhara >.> <.<.
I'm also curious what that stinger at the end is about...I'm also nervous about that weirdness with Yurizono representing ~*~desire~*~ and entering Ginko, so...well, we're definitely not out of the woods yet.
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Okay okay okay since this is apparently winding up in a week or so I'm marathoning the shit out of this and loving it
I just finished episode 6 and I'm just kind of a ball of whimpering disgruntledness over it all like noooooooooo that was the most fucking cruel thing ever holy shit
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WELCOME TO LESBEARS MATSY, WHERE EVERYTHING IS NOT OK (Gao~ gao~)
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episode 11 was not okay
episode 11 was not okay
episode 11 was not okay
EPISODE 11 WAS NOT FUCKING OKAY
LULU NO
Real talk, though, now that I'm caught up:
I'm definitely enjoying this, and yet god damn it all if I'm not desperately wishing this was a longer series like Utena or Penguindrum was. I mean, like, all of the elements that could make this super incredible are there-- there's not one element of the story I straight-up dislike-- but it's the execution and length that's bothering me.
Every episode comes on super strong and gives revelations and puzzle pieces for putting the story together-- so it's too easy to become desensitized without time to let the impacts settle in. That, and I just don't feel as invested in the characters as I should because of that, and it's making some of the emotional impacts more dull than they should be. Like, I can feel bad for and identify with Kureha/Ginko/Lulu (especially Ginko and Lulu because ow), but I guess it's just not hitting me in the core like Penguindrum did. It's not fair for me to judge it based on my standards for my all-time favorite anime ever though.
I think once the show is finished I'll take some time to reflect on it more. Maybe there's something I've missed.
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LULUUUUUU! ;_;
Yeah, that was not OK. Hell, Ikuni is going for King of Not OK with this series. Though I can't deny he's doing it to great effect.
(Yurizono bringing the sexy back was totally OK, though. :p)
But, yes, I too got the feeling that the pieces for the symbolism puzzle are coming together these last episodes, even though it all looked so random at the beginning.
It's a shame that it's almost ending, but on the other paw, I think the pacing was actually well done, considering the sense of intensity through most of it, and I'm not sure if being twice as long would work as fine.
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Yurizono best worst bear <3
Yeah...I really wish this series WERE longer, but I think Ikuhara did masterfully with the 12 episodes he had.
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Oh, surely. If there's anyone who can fit a story of this depth into 12 episodes, it's Ikuhara.
Now that I think of it, I'm more impressed that he was able to pull off a coherent puzzle with such constraints without making it predictable*.
*Though I totally called yuri____ names = bear forever ago and thus Yuriika being a bear was not a surprise to me, though her story was still pretty interesting.
What gets me the most is how well he can create and build surreal worlds and still make comprehensible, real-life metaphors.
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Ending:
Wow, that was pretty much perfect. There wasn't a thing in this show I take exception to. Show of the year so far.
I'm looking forward to hearing the explanations for all of the little stray bits of symbolism, but the show totally stands on its own without further analysis. It makes sense and is a complete story and everything.
And I don't mind saying that I teared up a little in the last five minutes there in a room full of adult men.
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Just finished it. I have been sobbing tears of happiness.
The ending was so bittersweet but it is exactly what I like out of endings.
AND LULU WAS TELLING A STORY THE WHOLE TIME SHE'S NOT FOR REAL DEAD I AM SO HAPPY
HER LITTLE BROTHER WAS STILL ALIVE
HE SHARED HIS PROMISE KISS WITH HER AND SHE ACCEPTED IT IT WAS SO SWEET
Also I spent all of the series feeling kind of irritated with Ginko because it was obvious that she was meant to be Kureha's lover, but how dare you push yourself onto someone when their lover was just murdered? But apparently, that was part of Sumika's-- part of Kumalia's-- intent to begin with. "The person in front of you is your new friend" was her reuniting Ginko with Kureha and aaaaaaaargh ;____;
Good show. Very good ending. I'm sorry I doubted you, Ikuhara.
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ALSO I FRIGGEN CALLED SUMIKA NOT BEING DEAD FOR KEEPS >=[. ALSO FROM LIKE EPISODE 3 I KNEW KUREHA WAS GONNA BECOME A BEAR
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ALSO I FRIGGEN CALLED SUMIKA NOT BEING DEAD FOR KEEPS >=[. ALSO FROM LIKE EPISODE 3 I KNEW KUREHA WAS GONNA BECOME A BEAR
But Sumika is still dead for keeps, isn't she? Do you think the intent was that she literally was Kumalia the whole time and she was just a god going to school (or a fragment of a god I guess)? Maybe that was the intent, but I figured Kumalia just appeared as Sumika symbolically, and they're not actually the same person.
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I suppose this is one of the parts where you shake your fist at Ikuhara because you don't know whether to take something as symbolic of something else or taking it at face value.
I'm going to take it at face value, I think. Here's why:
So many of the story's most important moments happen at the Door of Friendship-- that is to say, what we find out to be the door between the world of humans and bears. This is especially where most of Sumika's most significant moments take place-- constantly saying she won't give up on love and giving Kureha her birthday card early there. We later find out that Sumika being targeted by the Invisible Storm was the reason for her doing that, because she didn't want Kureha getting hurt by it. It's just too suspicious to be a coincidence-- I don't think Sumika would have given Kureha that letter early had she not been aware that she was going to be eaten by Yurizono. And Sumika was completely aware of Ginko's presence as well-- so her method was, though confusing, to bring her and Kureha back together while taking herself out of the picture. It all seems really convoluted and cruel of her if this is true, though-- but from the way things sounded, Kumalia was not the most benevolent of goddesses either. It's more likely that it was a test for Kureha, to see if she would truly not give up on love-- especially since she stubbornly believed in love even after she relinquished it in the Severance Court so Ginko would be transformed into a human, with the addition that she'll have a chance to reunite with Ginko later on-- and it was Kumalia, who gets the final word in human/bear relations, who provided that chance through Sumika. Now, whether Sumika was an actual person or just an extension of Kumalia is something I do not know, but it does seem kind of like she was a Christ figure in a sense-- sent to die to bring change and deliverance from a cruel world.
Thus, I'm fine with seeing Sumika as someone who was actually Kumalia all along.
Does that make sense, or am I missing something here?
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Does that make sense, or am I missing something here?
I don't know. You probably know more than me, I think I gotta re-watch it before I can comment on much. All I know is I was not given that impression, I can't refute anything specific. Maybe that was the intent, but if it was it went over my head and seems slightly strange to me.
So these are the things the people I watched with and I are still confused/unsure about. If anybody has any guesses or if internet figured them out already and we just didn't hear about it (or, just as likely, if we just forgot something that should have answered the questions within the show), please do share:
-If Tsubaki's wish was for Ginko to become human, what did Ginko wish for? Did she ironically wish for the same thing? Did she actually make a wish at all?
-What was the function, either mechanical or symbolic, of the half-human, half-bear forms? Why do people in Bear World sometimes appear as full bears (Ginko's backstory) and sometimes appear as half-human (Lulu's backstory)?
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Yeah, I'm taking Sumika as literally Kumalia, acting as a guide on Kureha's journey. Though, Matsy's interpretation as tester is actually way better, given the court bears are her fragments and go into her, so I think I like that more.
I admit, I was really really confused about what happened with Ginko's wish, and am tentatively assuming that, yes, she wished to be human too, since it was "better", but kind of basically internalized misursany.
I have absolutely no idea on the bear/human/hybrid forms though. I mean, I guess my best guess is the hybrid form is a metaphor for self actualization maybe? Idk. Kurehabear is the cutest though and I want 20.
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Yeah, I'm taking Sumika as literally Kumalia, acting as a guide on Kureha's journey. Though, Matsy's interpretation as tester is actually way better, given the court bears are her fragments and go into her, so I think I like that more.
I admit, I was really really confused about what happened with Ginko's wish, and am tentatively assuming that, yes, she wished to be human too, since it was "better", but kind of basically internalized misursany.
I have absolutely no idea on the bear/human/hybrid forms though. I mean, I guess my best guess is the hybrid form is a metaphor for self actualization maybe? Idk. Kurehabear is the cutest though and I want 20.
While 'internalized misursany' is a phrase that I am profusely giggling at, I don't think it was just that. Even though Ginko was a criminal-bear who has grown disillusioned to the bear world, I think a lot of the reason why she chose to wish to become a human was so she could seek a more peaceful life with Kureha. After all, the Invisible Storm bullies won't hurt her OR Kureha if they don't know she's a bear, right?
I feel a lot of the this boils down to a Gift of the Magi reference-- in fact, a lot of the Severance Court's modus operandi revolves around that. To have your wish approved, you must show that you truly desire it by giving up what is most important to you. At first, Ginko's wish revolved around giving up her love for Kureha so she could become a human. However, it's later seen that the one making the wish was actually Kureha, who was making her wish through naivety and desperation, so sure that everything would work out her way even if she gives up what is most important to her. The Court bears accuse her of pride, and while young Kureha doesn't understand this, she later atones for it by giving up her humanity to become a bear so she can be with Ginko outside of the cruel human world, safe from the Invisible Storm.
I think this is also why the artists chose to make both Ginko and Kureha humanoid bears at the end of the series, since they both gave up their bearmanity and humanity respectfully to reach the other. And in doing this, they become more than merely human or bear, but the combination of both. Or something like that, I guess. That's how I'm seeing it-- it's representative of how they've transcended beyond the flawed worlds they both come from and have departed them-- they neither live in the world of bears nor the world of humans, but somewhere in between, within the Door of Friendship.
[WARNING: UTENA AND PENGUINDRUM SPOILERS AHEAD]
I am reminded of this post here (https://formeinfullbloom.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/on-beginnings-endings-and-yuri-kuma-arashi/). In all three of Ikuhara's major productions, the main characters are freed from flawed and broken systems, even if the flawed and broken systems still remain regardless. In Utena Akio is made out to be a fool; a stubborn prince who refuses to leave his coffin and is trapped there by his own selfishness, power complex, and desire to control others. Meanwhile, the students, especially Utena and Anthy, break out of the system. In Penguindrum, Shouma and Kanba give up their humanity to change fate for Himari's sake. Sanetoshi swears he'll be back the next time the train comes back, but Momoka mocks him and walks away. He's not made to look a fool as much as Akio is, but instead he's defanged. Himari will live a safe and happy life, free from the punishment of fate. Ringo is no longer bound by her desire to make Momoka live on through fulfilling the destiny diary, and she can also live a peaceful life. Both have become friends with one another. The system of fate and punishment remains, but it is powerless when the realization is made that fate can be changed.
In Yurikuma, it's a bit less sweet of an ending. Ginko and Kureha escape the Invisible Storm by departing from both worlds to live happily elsewhere, free and safe. However, the Invisible Storm still remains, with its ferocity and zeal fully intact. But it is also shown that Ginko and Kureha relinquishing their existence within that reality had an impact, however small. During the Exclusion Ceremony or whatever it's called, a spotlight is shown on one girl in the crowd, who cannot bring herself to vote. She walks right out of there to the Door of Friendship, where a lonely and abandoned Robo-Konomi is sobbing. She picks her up and embraces her. You can see this as the potential for the vicious cycle of the system of the Invisible Storm to continue, but obviously the girl is aware of that. She walked out of the system for that reason, after all! So I am choosing to see that even if the impact is small, the potential to dismantle the system still exists, even if it's through one person at a time. She'll inevitably be the next "evil" target, but maybe they'll both end up where Ginko and Kureha are in the end. Who knows?
[UTENA AND PENGUINDRUM SPOILERS END]
One thing I'm really curious about is why the artistic direction of the OP and Severance Court approvals are so very sexualized, when in context it makes very little sense in the plot, which is on the whole not particularly sexually-driven. Sure, there's a little fanservice here and there with bath scenes and the "yeah this is kinda worrisome" scenes with Yuriika and... Akae, was it? But those are minor in comparison to the OP and Yuri Approved scenes. I have a few thoughts on it, but in the end they all boil down to 'yeah this is artistic liberty but it's got nothing to do with the plot'.
One possibility: I think we discussed this earlier at some point, but I think the possibility exists that the blatant sexuality in those scenes are, for lack of a better word, bait. It's there to draw the fanservice-crazed anime fans (especially the straight male demographic that fetishizes lesbians) in and then demolish their expectations for an ecchi series. Kind of like, making that particular demographic look like a fool for using them as fetish fuel as they disregard the fact that their relationship is for their pleasure, not the viewer's. Or something like that, I dunno.
Second possibility: Female sexuality-- especially lesbian sexuality, is often seen as taboo and mired with concepts of ~*~purity~*~ and anything explicit is considered dirty and inappropriate. I feel that there is some intent here pointing toward normalizing it, making it as mundane and inoffensive as sex between a male and a female. Removing the stigma, you know? The sooner such things are normalized, the sooner people will be accepting of it. (I mean, even in countless yuri manga it's basically a trope for at least one girl to be reluctant, usually saying something like "B-but we can't do this! We're both girls!", like even in lesbian-driven narratives, it's still present.)
Third possibility: Ikuhara likes having a little nudity in his shows for some symbolic reason or another. Morishima is a yuri mangaka, and she likes drawing naked girls. Artistic preference and artistic liberty, yo.
Just a thought. I'm curious to see what you all think.