Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Sara's Audio-Visual Import-Overflow Retail => Topic started by: neetori on January 04, 2014, 03:25:44 PM
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Hello, the forum itself suggested to create a new topic rather than necro a year or two old post, so I started this.
Hope it was okay.
I just had a few thoughts on my mind, and would love input.
The first time I`ve met a crowd of Touhou fans in the US was at last year`s AWA.
I was astonished to see the number of cosplayers among them.
I think it was harder to find a non-cosplayer (or maybe my eyes kept on chasing cosplayers too much?) there.
I cosplay because... I take it as a obligation.
Ever since cosplaying became so mainstream (at least in the US), where the emphasis isn`t creating the costume, but rather on wearing it to appeal your fan-ness (or yourself?), I feel like I have to cosplay to be considered a fan (worth talking to).
I also think I only got a new acquaintance there because I cosplayed.
I did get alot more attention than I was comfortable with too, so I have mixed feelings. (Having many pictures taken worries me)
So uh, barrage of questions. I wish Satori could put what I feel/think(?) in better words.
Why do you cosplay as a fan?
Has anyone here made new Touhou friends here out of cosplay? If so, was your interest in them regardless of them cosplaying or not?
What do you think about crossplay (completely trying to become a girl and/or wearing girl-suggestive clothing, like skirts) gender bending when cosplaying?
What strengthens your final decision? What do you think is the right decision?
How strong is the fandom to let past a poorly done crossplay or genderbend? A not-so aesthetically gifted fan doing such?
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I am a male... and really want to get into cos/crossplaying Touhou as well (could never be passed off as a trap though)... but my desires for doing so are still being held back by common senses -__-" . Few of my local Touhou acquaintances I have worked with does take cosplaying Touhou very seriously though (and also some pretty good trap as well... and some hillarious ones as well)). In my stances, I really paru at them though regardless of whether it is a good cosplay or not since they have the courage to go out there and enjoy displaying their affection toward their favourite 2hus (is that slang acceptable here? I am not sure).... and the admirable crossplay ones are just nothing short of awe inspiring regarding all the trickeries and work being involved to get it right...
I don't mind poorly done crossplay and genderbend as all fans have their rights to express their love for their 2hus... and personally find that the very very bad attempts are flat out hilarious and are probably intended to be a joke in the first place. A good laugh material is always appreciated :D .... what I do mind though is that I have met Touhou fans who did very bad crossplay... yet know nothing of humbleness and actually criticized other Touhou crossers for flaws in their cross works (which supposedly still looks better than the former's crossing attempt). Some reprimanding from "higher authority" were handed out, of course -__-
Regarding the sexy cosplay question... sexy Touhou cosplays on the other hands are kinda a mix bag since while personally I have no problem with sexiness... I have met my shares of people (girls) who cosplay Touhou without even knowing what Touhou is... and only do it because it seems popular (I don't call them out for it though... cause that would be a dckmove). Also, with that said, considering how popular Touhou is in Japan... I would not be surprise to know those famous cosers who do sexy Touhou cosplay... and know nothing of Touhou. So the only issue I have with sexy Touhou cosplay is that it is more self-promoting than expressing-Touhou-loves
...also personally, I could never cross since aesthetically I can't really pass myself off as a well crosser... yet at the same time I am not too aesthetically unpleasing enough that I can be safely passed as a satire... so it is kinda a mix bag and I don't want anyone to take my attempt at non-serious cross as serious... so I wholeheartedly stay out of this crossplaying business despite really yearning to actually try it.
If I absolutely have to though... I would like to pick Parsee since she embodied my feeling of jealousy toward other cosplayers pretty well :3 (and her long sleeves and loose shirt can help hide manly-ish features like bulky arms pretty easily :3
...or may be just bulk buy some pink fairy floss, buy a vecro suit and roll myself in them... then start calling myself Unzan cosplay :3
*hope I can get a pretty Ichirin to be with me to complete the cosplay though ' 3' *
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While I did meet up with YJ, Vento, Pasu etc during AFA last year for cosplay as Touhou, myself have no interest whatsoever with Touhou, not enough for me to trap that is. I love to consider the option but for me cosplay should be a passion and you gotta get it right, that means OH HEY MAKE UP AND NO COSFUCK. So yeah, that is it. On the other hand, I had the opportunity using my somewhat minute influence here in Malaysia and met some of the coolest girls in cosplay. People like Yingtze, Angie, Yuki Chow, etc I have been able to meet Onnies, Reika (even had tea with the no.1 cosplayer on Cure*), Danny Choo and his dad Jimmy who are my regular clients in hotel business, so I consider cosplay a door opener for me.
Though I don't cosplay that well, the characters I choose are wholesomely, my own, and I love them to bits. (I have succeeded only 1 cosplay so far, but I look forward to a lot more)
for now, I am making Tenryuu from Kantai Collection and reviving my old personal project Neroqvsr Chaos from Tsukihime (Type Moon). I intend only to make it happen this time for sure.
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I've met a lot people via my cosplaying at conventions, hanging out at the Touhou dinners and chatting and attending panels and photoshoots.
I've found that it's much more fun to attend conventions in cosplay.
Much more fun when you're crossplaying a character from a niche fandom like Touhou and have people run up to you and ask for a picture. (Especially at smaller conventions!) Honestly, I love the attention.
Even more fun when they realize you're a guy in a dress and they say you look pretty! It's a huge compliment.
On a related note, please don't use the term "trap" to refer to crossdressers and transgendered, etc... It's an offensive term in my opinion.
I have fun making the costumes. I currently have four completed Touhou cosplays and working on more.
My room is currently in a state of disarray as I prepare and adjust my current costumes for the upcoming 2014 conventions. First up is Katsu and I can't wait.
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Ever since cosplaying became so mainstream (at least in the US), where the emphasis isn`t creating the costume, but rather on wearing it to appeal your fan-ness (or yourself?), I feel like I have to cosplay to be considered a fan (worth talking to).
That is, quite frankly, ridiculous. I'm sure you realize it, but by saying so you're also just implying that all other people that don't cosplay for whatever variety of reasons aren't "real" fans. I'm not sure why you would force that belief on yourself, it's incredibly unhealthy and just plain false.
I also think I only got a new acquaintance there because I cosplayed.
I did get alot more attention than I was comfortable with too
This, however, should be natural. If you cosplay, you will naturally be identifiable to anyone else as a fan of whatever you're cosplaying. Obviously you're going to get more attention and have more people come talk to you than otherwise.
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I am also a guy, and I have a Youmu costume that I've worn for three Halloweens at this point. It's not a totally extensive costume or anything, I don't wear things like makeup or padding (not that you need any of the latter with Youmu :V), but doing crossplay in general isn't too much of an issue in my mind.
I've yet to go to any conventions, let alone cosplay at one, but should I have the time and money, I would certainly like to give it a shot.
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I missed AWA last year and plan to go sometime in the future, but this is an interesting question. A while back I was looking on some different sites for Touhou costumes (well, anything Touhou related really) and I remember thinking put of reflex that it was too bad I was a guy, I wouldn't be able to wear all these cool, awesome. pretty outfits. But hey...! Why couldn't I? If I was trying to portray a character as accurately as I could, it shouldn't matter to me at all. I'm confident enough in who I am, and it sounds like it'd be fun (and eye opening) to try to put confidence in being someone else. So I decided someday in the future if I ever try a cosplay I want to go all out haha and that's pretty exciting. I just need to decide on who to be. Hopefully that makes sense.
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Thank you for all these wonderful replies.
I hope it helps everyone who is here as much as it is with me.
Just wanted to say for now that I don`t mean that non-cosplayers aren`t strong fans.
I just feel that strong fans usually are picked up, so they have a identity without a costume.
I also feel like strong fans are the ones who do feel passionately enough to boost their will to cosplay where they usually might not.
So I guess I feel like cosplayers are the strong fans, usually.
I do know that there are beautiful people who just cosplay Touhou because it is popular, which makes me a bit sad.
It is a little something I am going through, I think.
So is cosplaying a good thing in the Touhou (US) fandom?
Maybe I should stop thinking about how Japanese generally think on cosplay...?
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(might be a little lagging in the discussion here, but oh well)
What I want to do for a Touhou cosplay is make a genderbent version of the character/costume, or at least make a unisex spin-off costume. My hesitation with that, though, is that it might not be as easily recognized and no one makes the connection to the character I'm trying to portray.
Also I haven't cosplayed before, so I'm worried I might make a fool of myself
The ones I want to do are a Kanako (genderswap) and Utsuho (unisex, but more "post-apocalyptic/war" style like these (http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts?utf8=%E2%9C%93&tags=didloaded+reiuji_utsuho+) (Danbooru)). Also coming up with materials is somewhat of a wall I've run into.
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Oh yeah, we do have a lot of cosplayers today who are more towards the beauty clothes hangers, who exist solely for eyecandy. Then again, there are some pretty beautiful geeks like Itsuki Akira, who beside being hugely popular in her mostly revealing costumes (sexualized version of them, sometimes, not all the time) is a huge geek that I really enjoy looking at her shenanigans.
and then there are serial idiots who are clothes hangers and think cosplay is a gateway to something more. It can be, but not with their ineptitude in attention to detail.
I know two girls who proceeded to modelling from cosplay. one is Fishii Loh, a malaysian cosplayer who is now cover girl for some decent fashion mags (and she has not so much as shown her navel as yet) the other is Jojo Himemiya who is also on facebook, and is known for her fashion designs and expensive and quality guaranteed costumes. You can find them on Professional Custom Made Costumes Malaysia.
Check that - it is not the costume that makes the person really, it is the person.
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I started cosplaying from Touhou quite a few years ago, not giving a second thought to the fact that I'm male. I had been going to conventions for a while at that point, so I was well aware that crossplay was a thing that wasn't severely looked down upon. (Only finding out later that in the Touhou cosplay community, a majority of the cosplayers are male.)
Now, I am by no means a small man, nor a convincing little girl, usually keeping a full beard/mustache, even for cosplay. I get some strange looks walking to and from the conventions, but I have not had any bad experiences while cosplaying a 2hu.
In fact, quite the opposite is true! I've met a whole bunch of cool folks, made some new friends! All of the touhou fans I've met at conventions are cool people, and don't judge you if your cosplay is bad, or if you're not a kawaii lady.
tl;dr: If you're on the fence about it, do it. You'll have a good time! And if we ever run into each other, we'll be friends I'm sure!
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Check that - it is not the costume that makes the person really, it is the person.
I like this statement. I can vouch for this.
I was very, very timid about crossplaying the first time. I didn't have a great time but it still was fun.
The subsequent times were substantially more fun because I had more confidence in myself (not as a cosplayer but myself personally).
Yeah, most Touhou cosplayers are male, might as well flaunt it!
tl;dr: If you're on the fence about it, do it. You'll have a good time! And if we ever run into each other, we'll be friends I'm sure!
Yeah, just do it if you want to or even remotely think about cosplaying.
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what I will do to cosplay the character in my sig and avatar - nothing. because I don't have the body and I don't want to be looked down upon for killing my own favorite.
how say you towards this?
Do you think you will kill your favorite character if you cosplay badly on it? or is it a homage regardless of effort and that it is a right thing to do if you like to do it? If so how much would you dedicate to a 'for fun' cosplay (just to note, we Asians seem to take cosplay very seriously, it is the whole thing, make up, set, everything, unless the characters themselves are in a joke character realm, by which means we can do whatever the hell we wish)
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what I will do to cosplay the character in my sig and avatar - nothing. because I don't have the body and I don't want to be looked down upon for killing my own favorite.
how say you towards this?
Do you think you will kill your favorite character if you cosplay badly on it? or is it a homage regardless of effort and that it is a right thing to do if you like to do it? If so how much would you dedicate to a 'for fun' cosplay (just to note, we Asians seem to take cosplay very seriously, it is the whole thing, make up, set, everything, unless the characters themselves are in a joke character realm, by which means we can do whatever the hell we wish)
um, assuming this is meant for me, IMO (I always wanted to use that acronym! ;) ), I don`t think I would ?kill? my favorite, but I certainly am reluctant to do so.
Luckily Touhou has many likeable characters, so it`s not hard to find other candidates and/or versions to cosplay.
There already is a good looking genderbent Nitori out there (apologizes to you if you do come across this), so I probably won`t do a normal version of her, at the least.
I feel that cosplay should be for fun in the US, especially in the warm Touhou fandom (I don`t know about Japan, but that Tokyo U. event makes me think so), but I also think that, borrowing off a friend`s idea, that it can also be to promote the franchise.
It is true that some people get into a franchise because they seen a heart-moving cosplay of someone. I assume there is the opposite as well, which adds to my reluctancy. (I made a new word?)
I do however, think any cosplay is a homage -but- (here comes where people hit me with unidentified funky objects) I do think it isn`t as much when you can tell it`s store bought.
Yes, money used to purchase that costume was from a indirect form of blood, sweat, and tears, but originally, cosplay culture in Japan was appreciating these fans creating their own costumes out of scratch. (and they had no choice as there were few to none costume stores.)
I think this is where the ?there is no such thing as a bad cosplay? comes from. But now, since buying costumes is mainstream, unless you take it as a profession, I think many people conceive that message as ?there is no such thing as bad representation of a character,? which I feel is not entirely true.
I will take ?cosplay for fun? to mean cosplaying for self-enjoyment and/or as invoking humor. The other possibility being serious cosplay, trying to impress. (two categories for now)
To be considered a joke, I think things should be represented radically different from how it is originally presented.
In that case, for cosplay, I don`t have the body or face to do so. I still do think it`s homage in some sort.
There is a term in Japanese: 体を張る, which the dictionary says it means: ?To take a action at the risk of one`s life.?
I don`t think that term is used that way, more like: taking a risk in terms of physical aspects, like diving in head first. (figure of speech meaning inclusive)
I respect that random E. Honda I saw at comiket before, as I could never take his place.
I feel sad when I think about it -- (no offense to anyone, just explaining awkwardly) let`s say Santa Claus cosplayed a Touhou character other than -suke.
Of course, he cannot shave off his trademark, elf-groomed fabulous beard, so he would cosplay in the form of just wearing clothes meant for a girl as a jolly man.
That would be almost instantly be taken as a joke, for fun cosplay, and less are likely to judge Santa`s character (as in his personality).
However, born as a Asian, (I don`t want to raise a gender situation here but explaining what I think) most of us are considered more feminine than our brothers from other nationalities because of our less protruding facial features and generally less or thinner facial hair.
An Asian guy can easily become a Asian woman just by wearing a long haired wig. Of course, not beautifully, though.
So it`s much more difficult for our type to cosplay without automatically being mentally categorized by viewers as doing it for fun, and/or a joke.
I am also shocked to see the sudden increase in male cosplayers at C85, probably due to the cosplay areas expanding since C84.
So since the sheer number is rising, as well as quality, it makes non-fortunate-of-the-aesthetics hard to cosplay without receiving many rough comments.
It may lowered the entry level, but comiket, thus a large influence on Japanese otaku culture being composed of males, cosplaying for self enjoyment is more difficult.
This is where my concern lies, especially since cosplay, after all, is something we appreciate mainly by aesthetics.
When I cosplay, half my mind is always thinking if I`m not offending any fans, crushing potential fans, doing the franchise injustice, hurting the cosplay culture, and so forth.
Pretty unhealthy right?
I`m trying to push this aside with the more positive opinions I hear here, especially because I probably won`t ever cosplay in Asia, so Asian mindsets do not apply.
Do non-Asians expect a higher standard level when Asians cosplay?
(Some of you might think why I`m asking this here and not on cosplay.com or something, but it`s the Touhou community I care about.)
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really, I am actually shocked by the lack of good male cosplayers, and we have one locally who shot to fame for cosfuckery. It was so bad I think I made a face at him when I actually saw him in person.
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really, I am actually shocked by the lack of good male cosplayers, and we have one locally who shot to fame for cosfuckery. It was so bad I think I made a face at him when I actually saw him in person.
See that's what keeps me from doing it -- fear of being that guy.
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About cosplay stuffs, would it be ok to post an offering? Because I was going to slim down whatever uniforms I had from the Navy to one or two and have quite a few to figure out what to do with. I know at least my dress white top would make for a good Murasa template. :)
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About cosplay stuffs, would it be ok to post an offering? Because I was going to slim down whatever uniforms I had from the Navy to one or two and have quite a few to figure out what to do with. I know at least my dress white top would make for a good Murasa template. :)
I don`t think anyone would mind.
I think I scared too many people off with being over the top, so this thread isn`t going anywhere. lol
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Why do you cosplay as a fan?
Because it's fun-- joking aside I'm pretty much more open and more talkative to the other cosplayers outside my circle
Has anyone here made new Touhou friends here out of cosplay? If so, was your interest in them regardless of them cosplaying or not?
I'm not sure if it counts because I made friends with them before I started cosplaying as a magicial flying girl, but I'm sure there were some friendships that became stronger after I started cosplaying.
What do you think about crossplay (completely trying to become a girl and/or wearing girl-suggestive clothing, like skirts) gender bending when cosplaying?
It's interesting and I am mad jelly of GUYS WITH GREAT LEGS MY GOD I'M SURROUNDED WITH SO MUCH OF SUCH PEOPLE AAAAAH
What strengthens your final decision? What do you think is the right decision?
Final decision to wat
How strong is the fandom to let past a poorly done crossplay or genderbend? A not-so aesthetically gifted fan doing such?
As long as the cosplayer isn't someone who crossed just because touhou is semi-niche-kinda-popular in my country, we pretty much welcome them; because then we can all help each other with crossing and cosplaying, right? Singapore's touhou cosplay community is split into two - fans (80% of cosplayers are crossers) and those who do it because its mainstream (mainly females who do either Flandre, Remilia, Sakuya, Marisa and Reimu) We get really sad when Flan/Remis don't react to a Sakuya near them ;_;
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I'll follow Pasu's format to sum it up
Why do you cosplay as a fan?
- Besides meeting new people, I'd like to better enjoy the fandom for doing so. Being able to represent a favorite character of yours is a great feeling.
Have you made new Touhou friends outside of cosplay?
-I had never met anybody who is into Touhou outside of cosplay/conventions.
What do you think about crossplay when cosplaying?
-People crossplay in theater during ancient times. It's amusing if one has the courage to try pull it off. We have a trap Reimu in my area and I must say he did improve a lot between the two times I've seen him in that.
What strengthened your final decision?
-The best inspiration was seeing a Keine-Hakutaku cosplayer, which I had never thought of seeing one in person, besides the already great amount of people in costume during the Touhou gathering on the first anime convention I went to. Sure enough, I had a lot much fun doing so in the last year and a half as a stress relief. Just need to deal with non-approval situation if it ever happens (I'm Asian and not all will approve you crossdressing, for fun or not).
How strong is the fandom to let pass a poorly done crossplay/genderbend? A not-so aesthetically gifted fan doing such?
-This is very subjective and really depends on how competitive people are around you.
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See that's what keeps me from doing it -- fear of being that guy.
ok, let me rephrase that, you can only achieve THAT GUY status (I do mean that particular guy)
- when you take constructive criticism as attacks on your cosplay
- when senior and more noteworthy cosplayers give you a pat in the back for 'not bad for a newbie' and you take that as 'well I am good enough and there is no need to improve'
- constantly post selfies of yourself in cosplay costume but without any make up and calls it a cosplay, making excuses like I sweat a lot and stuff.
As a whole, the Asian cosplay scene is very strict about portrayal of characters and will do a lot for the cosplay to represent themselves as a whole, if only to pay accurate tribite to the series, but as a whole people are not going to chase you down screaming for your head if you do not make a good cosplay the first few times. I DO MEAN FEW. and everyone has the patience to wait for you because guess what?
NOT the whole world waits in baited breath to see your cosplay, and certainly not you.
It is a hobby yes, but make good on your hobby. It is like stamp collecting club. Say you join one of these dreadful clubs and you come with a single collection and you show some cool shit you collected, and people give you advice where to hunt down the next set and oh and did you know this existed? and so on, and you go improve your collection. BUT you don't come around and show the same shit everytime in a different folder with the same stamps each time.
The way I see it, I see no reason why a slightly rounded person cannot cosplay a slimmer character, not all of us are born with six packs and peps that make our colleagues drool. BUT i certainly don't take to kindly to people who cosplay, rub it in your face in disgustingly shrill high pitch voices KAWAII DESHOOOOO KAWAII DESHOOOOOOO at you when you least asked for it (if at all).
There are two distinct groups that I find about this above type
1. Girls who go around AHAHAHAHAHH KYAAAAAA OMG YAOI OMG KISS DOCTOR WHO X SHERLOCK X HOMESTUCK omg SO KERWAIIIIII
2. Guys who do the same but with female characters (thank god the Singapore and Malaysian community of 2hus are kinda easy to get friendly with (and everyone seems to know Faiz and Gungnir and Tate lol)) but usually is worse because they will shout doujin titles at you. OMHG HAVE YOU READ THE ONE WHERE THEY DRILLED HER WITH THAT OMG IT IS SO SEXY LIKE THEY HAVE THESE TENTACLES AND THEY ARE LIKE WHOAH THE GUUREN LAGANN.
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Stuff
Seeing as to how I live in the southeast States, I don't think I'll need to worry too much about being damn near perfect with this.
What I meant by "That Guy" was something that was laughably bad or completely misrepresented and ending up being embarrassing, granted "bad" and "wrong" are subjective.
Seriously, this was really helpful. I'm considering doing something more strongly now.
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Let me add that there are also "That Girl" cosplays (or whatever gender someone prefers). So let's call it "That Person".
You know what I mean: Someone that obviously threw together a cosplay the day before or even in their hotel room just to be in a photoshoot.
There are two distinct groups that I find about this above type
1. Girls who go around AHAHAHAHAHH KYAAAAAA OMG YAOI OMG KISS DOCTOR WHO X SHERLOCK X HOMESTUCK omg SO KERWAIIIIII
2. Guys who do the same but with female characters (thank god the Singapore and Malaysian community of 2hus are kinda easy to get friendly with (and everyone seems to know Faiz and Gungnir and Tate lol)) but usually is worse because they will shout doujin titles at you. OMHG HAVE YOU READ THE ONE WHERE THEY DRILLED HER WITH THAT OMG IT IS SO SEXY LIKE THEY HAVE THESE TENTACLES AND THEY ARE LIKE WHOAH THE GUUREN LAGANN.
Ugh! These examples, they may be in hyperbole but are seated in truth, just make me cringe. These are the very definition of weeb.
I really hate the fact that people expect you to act "in character" the entire time you're in cosplay. What, is this con supposed to be a day long LARP?