Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Sara's Audio-Visual Import-Overflow Retail => Topic started by: Lepetit89 on April 15, 2012, 06:24:14 PM

Title: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Lepetit89 on April 15, 2012, 06:24:14 PM: Rare for me to actually start a discussion, but recently, there's one topic that's been bugging me, and no, not in the obviously ambiguous way.

Of course, I'm talking about fanservice here. Fanservice seems to have become an ever-present part of media, more so in Anime than in other media, and most probably can count more than a dozen of examples in a relatively short amount of time. Whether it's random pantyshots thrown in for no reason, breasts bouncing around like they wish to defy gravity as if they were Icarus or entire episodes created for the sole purpose of fanservice, be it beaches or visits to the pool (with the obligatory attack by a kraken or anything with tentacles, of course), maids - fanservice is everywhere.

You've probably caught on to my subtle critizism already, but fanservice kind of bothers me. Don't get me wrong (and anyone who knows me a little probably won't), I'm all for girls in swimsuits and sexual content of all kinds, the more the better, but that belongs into porn. If I seek arousal, I'll visit appropriate websites or pick something from my bookshelf, but the last thing I care about when I'm watching an Anime are breast comparisons between female characters - I watch Anime for the story, not to become aroused like a 12 year-old that somehow got a hold of a copy of Basic Instinct back in the 80s or whenever that movie was released.

Naturally, how much of an issue this actually is depends on how fanservice is embedded into the show - sometimes a little scene is added, sometimes it seems to be part of every single scene, sometimes the Anime might as well be called "Fanservice with a few shreds of story in between", and that's exactly when it stops being something to smirk about or smile at and turns into an annoyance - when an anime tries too hard to cater to an audience that shouldn't be watching it in the first place, a bunch of people who, as it would appear, put way too much "brainpower" into their third party down below the waistline. I'm not saying that's wrong altogether, but if your only intention is getting to exactly those people, then why not turn it into a goddamn porn movie right off the bat? To broadcast things censored and get people to buy the uncensored DVDs, which are completely overpriced anyway, just to sustain an industry that survives by selling extremely overpriced items to a fanbase consisting almost entirely of collectors instead of catering to a worldwide audience by lowering prices? Straying off-topic here, but that's exactly the impression I get, and it's not just Anime that make it seem like this is the case - take Maid Caf?s for instance.

You've got a caf?, just with women wearing fetish items, basically, you're catering to a customer base by taking their fetishes into consideration to sell, uh, coffee and cake? What in tarnation?

Similiar to Anime, you create a strongly sexual flavour, add it to whatever you're trying to do, thus addressing a larger audience, and then pass it off as non-sexual to improve sales. Sounds like a nice marketing strategy and it's not like Japan's the only country to use it, you can find it pretty much everywhere because any man who sees a bikini-wearing blonde woman wielding a chainsaw will want to buy one, but, different from Maid Caf?s or sexualized marketing strategies, you cannot turn it off in Anime, and that's the point.

Once you've added sexuality to an Anime or any show, it's there. You'll see pantyshots when the local heroine, who, while jumping around and engaging in swordfights and what not, is wearing a goddamn skirt for no apparent reason, you'll see breasts bouncing when the heroine with the skin-tight bodysuit is fighting, you'll get shots of bosoms, crotches and breasts when ambassadors from a faraway planets negotiate
in freaking school swimsuits - and I really, really loathe the taste it gives Anime that could have otherwise been a great show by merits of having an interesting story and characters I actually enjoyed watching. Instead, I'm treated to goddamn maids wielding miniguns in a subway because a fetish-driven organization wants to capture the big breasted, bodysuit-wearing alien with cat ears because cat ears are great. Thanks, really.

Now, I realize that there are plenty of shows that probably wouldn't be able to survive if it weren't for fanservice, but to drift off from the point of the story just to cater to a larger audience really gives otherwise great shows a flavour they don't deserve in the least. Not just that, it makes it hard to seriously talk about those shows or to watch them together with friends if the focus lies on sexuality - no manly tears are shed during otherwise epic moments, no, instead the mind drifts off to wonder what might be hiding under those panties, and that really cannot be the point of creating a story.

So, what do you think? Really interested in hearing if I'm alone here.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Omba on April 15, 2012, 07:57:49 PM: Quote from: Lepetit89 on April 15, 2012, 06:24:14 PM
So, what do you think? Really interested in hearing if I'm alone here.
You are. Well no, you probably aren't, but I at least like the added sexual flavour, provided that either the series is good or the sexual stuff makes it good; though the latter usually fails.
The "tastelessness" that is often present in nowadays anime is one of the reasons I watch it, actually. Granted, a lot of series that do it are shit, but it's not that stuff that makes them shit.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Cadmas on April 15, 2012, 08:02:21 PM: The only time I've been bothered by fanservice was when I watched Queen's Blade.
That's one case where the story is complete unimportant and its all about the boobs.

Higurashi had it bit of fanservice but it wasn't enough that it left the story in the mud.

fanservice doesn't always become the main focus but when it does it goes run-a-muck.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Tengukami on April 15, 2012, 08:54:55 PM: Quote from: Omba on April 15, 2012, 07:57:49 PM
You are. Well no, you probably aren't

He isn't. Needless fanservice is the major reason why I drop a lot anime series. First of all, it annoys me whenever a meaningless device is shoehorned into a series, whether it's fan service, violence, or some long, boring sequence of our MC walking around with music playing. It's filler. Second of all, shows with a lot of fan service tend to be weak on story and character development, because if the producers feel the need to swing boobs and panty shots in your face every 90 seconds, changes are it's to distract you from the lack of actual content.

On the other hand, some shows take fan service and use it as a tool for parody - Haganai, Nyaruko, and BakaTest all spring to mind - and that can be downright funny. Rika from Haganai, for example, is a very ecchi character, but her turn-ons include mecha combat sequences and watching the connecting joints of two train cars banging together. That's hilarious to me, and I don't mind that kind of fanservice at all.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Stuffman on April 15, 2012, 08:58:09 PM: Fanservice isn't anything new; I remember driving home from work one night and deciding to listen to a radio drama from the 1950s with Humphrey Bogart, and there was this part where the female lead winds up taking a bath in a river and winds up calling for Bogart's character saying she needs him to bring her a towel BUT DON'T LOOK and I was thinking "this is just like my Japanese animes!" There's also things like Betty Boop who was basically the ancient counterpart to the modern day fanservice girl.

Basically, fanservice is omnipresent in any form of media so I don't think you can point at it as the cause of any sort of drop in quality.

Really I think what the growth of cheesecake anime actually illustrates is the poor state of entertainment industry due to the internet rapidly rendering it obsolete. The industry relies more and more on easy sales to get by, and fanservice is just their best tool to get it. Hollywood is doing the same thing, relying on cash-ins of old IPs and mindless action movies. High-quality, intelligent material is difficult to write and produce, and the modern entertainment industry is not interested in anything that does not provide instant profits.

tl;dr: IMO the presence of fanservice is not the problem, the absence of other things is.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Palewolf on April 15, 2012, 10:03:51 PM: I mainly take issue with fanservice when it's shoved in somewhere it doesn't belong, battle scenes with boob closeups/pantyshots or whatever for an example, really makes me feel like facepalming.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Raikaria on April 15, 2012, 10:13:49 PM: Fanservice is OK when it's used as part of something else, and not meaninglessly thrown in. These cases are admittedly somewhat rare, I can't actually think of one off the top of my head. There is also nothing wrong with a character DESIGN being somewhat fanservicy... as long as it's not OTT, and especially not if it's actually part of their character.

Example of where a fanservicy design helps characterisation:

The Mizukage in Naruto. She is designed to look attractive. Then you learn what her berzerk button is... the fact she's not married. She looks like that because of her desire for a husband. It's part of her character. It's also not OTT.

Now, here's a bad example of fanservice; even worse because it was in a series it HAD NO BUSINESS BEING IN [Please don't judge me for mentioning this series, it's nostalgic for me <_<]

Well, in general, all fanservice ever done in Digimon falls into this, as it's target audience age is just above that of Pokemon's initial audience [Significantly above now. Pokemon is aimed at 7~12 probobly, Digimon is 10~15 probobly, seeing as things die and whatnot].

Seasons 1,3 and 4 all have nudity, albeit you can't see anything extreme. Season 4 has it practically every ep in the transformation sequences. [Not to mention the infamous Sexy Dynamite scene]

However, my major example of this is from the second half of Xros Wars.

Mervamon (http://digimon.wikia.com/wiki/Mervamon_%28Xros_Wars%29)

1: Look at her design.
2: Although this particualr sub-page lists only one attack of a form of her [Sexy the Cannon] there is also:
Sexy Dynamite: Yes, the name is a reference to the infamous scene. It's basically a butt-slam. With skin-tight shots as she does it <_<
Heartbreak shot: Basically shoots lasers from her breasts
Spicy Hard Love: Cannot recall what this one was.

Not to mention various times to showcase her tight outfit... I won't go into too much detail about the details... but let's just say they had no business with those details. At all.

And you just have to ask: Why are you doing this in a anmie specifically aimed at the younger audience?
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Tamer Anode/Cathode on April 15, 2012, 11:06:51 PM: I want to say that the excessive fanservice is part of a greater, more problematic trend in anime as of late. More and more series seem to be made not for the purpose of telling a story, but for selling merchandise. The tendency towards more fetishized and "moe" characters appears to be for the sake of getting otaku to buy their product.

I do not mind fanservice on its own; it's when it's used over anything of actual substance that there's a problem.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: pineyappled on April 15, 2012, 11:10:10 PM: Touhou is a moeblob anime
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Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Zil on April 15, 2012, 11:18:09 PM: The only times that I like fanservice is when it's funny, or a parody of something, etc. In almost all cases I'd have no sexual interest in it at all, so if it's not at least funny then it ends up being pointless and very annoying. It's not just wasting your time, but it's doing it an awkward, half-assed way. If I wanted something to turn me on then I'd be looking at hentai in the first place. Otherwise the anime should stick to what it claims to be about.

I don't watch enough anime to notice any kind of "trend" or something, so I won't comment on that.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Lepetit89 on April 16, 2012, 08:03:48 AM: I definitely agree that there are times when fanservice is properly placed. After all, it allows for a wider range of characters with different personalities, which actually benefits the story or the series as a whole.

It's also a given that fanservice is often used to hide obvious other flaws a series has, or rather, downplay them. However, what concerns me about that is when otherwise promising shows or shows that would, despite their flaws, still manage to entertain in a serious fashion are forced to jump onto the fanservice-bandwagon just to survive, which essentially degrades them from serious works to nothing but new material for the next wave of Hentai material, assuming they don't dive into those waters on their own.

As others have pointed out, this does reflect the current state of the industry - not just Anime degrading themselves, it's everywhere, whether it's game sequels that are essentially Title 1 Version 2.0 (if that), a large part of movies produced being sequels or the tenth movie reboot of a comic franchise - all parts of whatever industry play it safe and stick with what has already proven to work. As a result, innovative movies and games have a harder time actually being approved and in Anime you've got fanservice.

Quite frankly, I do admit that it's nice if shows that would otherwise never make it actually have a means of getting somewhere that way, but the way shows wind up being quite often rather makes me wonder if they should have been released at all. Of course, you can't really blame only the the companies for that - after all, to them it's business and bad business wouldn't just be bad to the business itself but to the economy as a whole. I suppose it's more one of those situations where no one's to blame because everyone's messing up - fans by approving those shows, companies by releasing them en mass?.

Well, at least there are still really great shows that get by without ludicrous amounts of fanservice and I'm definitely happy about any of those that I actually get to watch.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Jaimers on April 16, 2012, 08:38:35 AM: You're talking as if fanservice is always sexual. But then again I don't watch anime. V :V V

I think the reason this phenomenon is increasing is because interaction between creators and viewers has become so much more intimate in recent times because of the internet. The gap between them has become much smaller and people can freely talk to the developers on by example their deviantArt. And some of them even partake in the fandoms themselves. Because of this fandom stuff can sometimes become canonized in the actual source content as some developers have become part of the fandom. Little nods here and then in the background or one-time gags.
This is actually a really new development and it's really interesting to see.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: _Zac_ on April 17, 2012, 01:05:15 AM: Quote from: Stuffman on April 15, 2012, 08:58:09 PM
tl;dr: IMO the presence of fanservice is not the problem, the absence of other things is.
Agree. Fanservice for the sake of it leaves me wondering why they even put it in, rather than actually getting me interested in the anime. Though I give a little too much leniency to Shaft in a way I can only call a double standard. Still trying to figure out what Shaft does differently than other animes that use fanservice for humor.
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Suikama on April 17, 2012, 01:09:09 AM: Quote from: _Zac_ on April 17, 2012, 01:05:15 AM
Still trying to figure out what Shaft does differently than other animes that use fanservice for humor.
It's the headtilt (http://i.imgur.com/cqSg7.jpg)
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Tengukami on April 17, 2012, 01:30:20 AM: Quote from: _Zac_ on April 17, 2012, 01:05:15 AM
Still trying to figure out what Shaft does differently than other animes that use fanservice for humor.

It's the writing and direction. Shaft employs "fanservice", but the art is good, the writing is good, and the directing is stellar. Hell, even their fanservice is well-written - who else would have dreamed up "let's have the MC brush her teeth" as a device for sexual tension?
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Suikama on April 17, 2012, 01:35:16 AM: Quote from: Tengukami on April 17, 2012, 01:30:20 AM
who else would have dreamed up "let's have the MC brush her teeth" as a device for sexual tension?
I'm pretty sure that was thought up by Nisioisin in the original novels
Title: Re: Fanservice in series and movies
Post by: Tengukami on April 17, 2012, 01:40:57 AM: Quote from: Suikama on April 17, 2012, 01:35:16 AM
I'm pretty sure that was thought up by Nisioisin in the original novels

Yes, I'm aware it was in the novels. Shaft chose to include it, and did it spectacularly.