Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Alice's Art Atelier => Topic started by: SuperParadox on March 17, 2012, 01:31:29 pm

Title: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: SuperParadox on March 17, 2012, 01:31:29 pm
Idea originally by Maullar

Welcome artists and musicians!
Like the title says, this is a place for everyone to get music and visual art tips. Please don't be afraid to leave links, recommendations or just general tips. The more we have the better! Also, if you have any questions or want to request some help feel free to do so.



Visual Art Links

Motivation, general tips and links
10 Tips To Become A Better Artist (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159875)
10 Other Art Tips (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?s=4b9dad0ab11af348d7b9133acdb94880&p=5912866&postcount=7)
Need Motivation? (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138102)
Stop Whining, Start Working (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223223)
Verb List (http://cup2013.wordpress.com/tag/richard-serra/)
Creativity Prompts (https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx/Public%20PPTs/Creativity%20Prompts.pptx?cid=ba4a1212f6e9472f&app=PowerPoint)
How to learn? (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178582)
Idea Generator (http://www.magatsu.net/art/index.php)
Fuckyeaharttutorials (http://fuckyeaharttutorials.tumblr.com/)
Art-and-Sterf (http://art-and-sterf.tumblr.com/)
PSG Art Tut (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm)
Ways to avoid art depression (http://themrock.tumblr.com/post/10310881971/some-ways-to-avoid-an-art-depression-ok-folks)
A list of things to study (http://foervraengd.tumblr.com/post/26907933929/my-art-study-exercise-list)
Noah Bradley's Blog (http://www.noahbradley.com/blog/)
10 things you can do to become a concept artist (http://conceptart.org/forums/tutorials-tips-tricks/261923-10-things-you-can-do-get-started-become-concept-artist.html)
Fresh Designer (http://www.freshdesigner.com/)

Drawing Tools
Pixe Lovely (http://artists.pixelovely.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/)
Hands for Drawing (http://www.posemaniacs.com/tools/handviewer/)
Posemaniacs (http://www.posemaniacs.com/)
Love Castle (http://lovecastle.org/draw/)
Gesture drawing tips (http://fyuvix.deviantart.com/art/Tato-Tuts-Components-of-GestureDrawing-280311167)
More on gesture drawing (http://hospitalvespers.tumblr.com/post/8712840616/gesture-drawing-basics)

Anatomy and References
Pack of academic drawings (http://www.mediafire.com/?zpgkz5rrwk7ffqj,zapvppnyx29fs48,9caq8wuez134ws6,az3aupk6c3xv8n3)
Male Bodies Ref (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyl6s3K6MC1r9xxuwo1_1280.jpg)
Varying Your Body Types (Female) (http://dredsina.tumblr.com/post/25341400011)
Hands (http://qinni.deviantart.com/art/Hand-Tutorial-Tips-Reference-187433101)   Part 2 (http://qinni.deviantart.com/art/Hand-Tutorial-2-298739215)
Bird wings (http://supaslim.tumblr.com/post/33346467704/here-have-wings-good-resources-puget-sound)
Moar anatomy refs (http://pachurz.tumblr.com/post/17932870876/some-building-block-references-my-life-drawing)    and moar (http://potassium-iodide.tumblr.com/post/25277769845/im-sure-this-is-on-tumblr-somewhere-refs)
Female anatomy Ref (http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/061/6/3/girly_tips_by_robaato-d4ri4x5.jpg)
Real Model Drawing References (http://lovecastle.org/draw/)
Feet and shoes (http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=shoes+tutorial#/d46jv0m)
Maullar teaches fundamentals (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12835.msg848110.html#msg848110)
Basic Anatomy (http://comictool.blogspot.ca/2009/04/this-week-ball-hoop-cone-vase.html)
animation gestures (http://www.floobynooby.com/pdfs/gesturedrawingforanimation.pdf)
Unique Features Part 1 (http://jeinu.deviantart.com/art/Unique-Features-Tutorial-Pt-1-153030678)  Part 2 (http://jeinu.deviantart.com/art/Unique-Features-Tutorial-Pt-2-154756158)  Part 3 (http://jeinu.deviantart.com/art/Unique-Features-Tutorial-Pt-3-198515118)
The Book of Bones (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?26748-%95%95%95-%87%87%87%87%87%87-%95%95%95-The-%95-Book-%95-of-%95-Bones-%95%95%95-%87%87%87%87%87%87-%95%95%95/page23&p=1159293#post1159293)
Guide to flexibility (http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Guide-to-Movement1-Flexibility-66104159?q=gallery%3Acedarseed%2F6557&qo=5)
Feet drawing guide (http://goku-no-baka.deviantart.com/art/TUTORIAL-Feet-drawing-guide-257925538)
Hands and forearms (http://kakimari.tumblr.com/post/6674625474)
Some tips on legs (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=26126692)
Oppai tips (http://art-tutorials.tumblr.com/image/14062593503)
More Oppai tips (http://art-and-sterf.tumblr.com/post/27001880927/sephiramy-enough-of-you-seemed-interested-or)
Leg Anatomy (http://jeff-h.deviantart.com/art/Leg-Anatomy-Tutorial-320969998)
Arm Anatomy (http://canadian-rainwater.deviantart.com/art/Anatomy-Human-Arm-Muscles-260160580)
Arms and Hand (http://snigom.deviantart.com/art/Arms-and-Hands-Tutorial-44397669)
Loomis Hands (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm6kzzxgiV1qk06dro1_1280.jpg)
Over the Shoulder Tutorial (http://dersketchie.deviantart.com/art/Over-the-Shoulder-Tutorial-355555011)
More Hand and Feet (http://caucasian-eagle.deviantart.com/art/Doodled-hands-n-feet-tutorial-256757010)

Heads and Facial Features
Basics of a Portrait  (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201665)
Facial Features Tips (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/crapitalism/Art%20Helpers/nDHgD.jpg)
Semi Realistic eyes (http://qinni.deviantart.com/art/Semi-realistic-anime-Eye-Tutorial-and-References-305714842?)
Lackdaisy construction (http://lackadaisy.foxprints.com/exhibit.php?exhibitid=356)
Scurred faces (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507620)
How to draw the ear (http://art-tutorials.tumblr.com/post/41951924779/dredsina-sorry-for-making-such-a-huge-post-i)
Skull and facial features (http://learninganatomy.tumblr.com/post/37960329570/fyeaharttips-eyecager-skulls-noses-and-lips)
Noses (http://buttfuckerletgo.tumblr.com/post/13351426367/kelvin-asked-me-to-do-a-nose-tutorial-so)
Ear tutorial (http://conceptcookie.deviantart.com/art/Ear-Tutorial-Resource-355788582)
Facial Hair (http://cataclysm-x.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Detailed-Hair-part-1-72642274?q=favby%3Akousetsu-kage%2F45050005&qo=69)

Animals
Animal Noses (http://mikan-no-tora.deviantart.com/art/Animal-noses-comparison-193125711)
Sheeps and Goats (http://art-and-sterf.tumblr.com/post/43535214485/losthitsu-suits-tutorial-translation)
Deer Sketches (http://animalandlifedrawing.blogspot.ca/2010/10/first-post.html)

Clothing/Fabric
Frills (http://losthitsu.tumblr.com/post/22796345527/frills-tutorial-translated-version-also-in-a)
Shoes (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=30224902)
Drapery (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14739)
How to draw Cloth (http://janemere.deviantart.com/art/How-to-Draw-Cloth-The-Basics-213019261)
Folds (http://mariealbertine.tumblr.com/post/13710696701/this-is-jack-hamms-entire-section-on-folds-minus)
Costumes (http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/2413085571/costumes-the-wearable-dialog)
Shoe Refs (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk5kvt160b1qaobbko1_500.jpg)
Collar Refs (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkdbnrOLKI1qz814so1_500.jpg)
More shoes (http://art-and-sterf.tumblr.com/post/37297694321)
Suits (http://art-and-sterf.tumblr.com/post/43535214485/losthitsu-suits-tutorial-translation)
Armor for Women (http://martwhim.tumblr.com/post/40061546009/why-do-you-hate-the-shape-of-breasts-in-plate-armor-so)

Backgrounds
Rock Tut (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=210123)
Speedpainting Tut (http://tanathe.deviantart.com/art/Speedpainting-tutorial-292867500)
Clouds (http://aquasixio.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-2-You-have-your-head-in-my-cloud-11636717) Clouds 2 (http://aquasixio.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-8-Beneath-other-skies-36510628)
Water (http://aquasixio.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-13-Like-a-fish-out-of-water-262733692)
Dirt n' Grass (http://miamaska.tumblr.com/post/37870003169/previous-next-up-is-how-i-draw-the-dirt-and)

Color
Understanding Color Relations (http://www.georgetownatelier.com/tutorials/figure-trois-crayons/)
Color Theory (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17837)
Understanding Color Temperature Relations (http://www.georgetownatelier.com/tutorials/figure-trois-crayons/)
Skin Tutorial 1 (http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=Digital+basics+Tutorial#/d2dwqgc)    Skin Tutorial 2 (http://navate.deviantart.com/art/SKIN-a-tutorial-Part-2-145159387)
Colors (http://tanathe.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorials-and-techniques-217225496#/d1xdpvy)
Shading Tips (http://art-tutorials.tumblr.com/image/40963621670)
Rendering (http://art-tutorials.tumblr.com/image/13586078967)
How I see color (http://purplekecleon.deviantart.com/art/How-I-See-Color-A-Tutorial-184642625)

Composition/Perspective
Top 10 composition rules (http://www.photographymad.com/pages/view/10-top-photography-composition-rules)
Perspective Tut (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=181436)
Compsition Tut (http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/phil_straub_composition_tutorial)
Perspective + Composition (http://fox-orian.deviantart.com/art/Perspective-Composition-Pt-1-118068853)  Part 2 (http://fox-orian.deviantart.com/art/Perspective-Composition-Pt-2-125042592)
Another Perspective Tut (http://sashas.deviantart.com/art/The-Perspective-Tutorial-94166651)
Guide to tangents (http://curiousoldlibrary.blogspot.ca/2011/10/schweizer-guide-to-spotting-tangents.html)
Composistion! (http://kalidraws.tumblr.com/post/32953413185/today-i-gave-my-students-a-quick-presentation-on)
Obeying Screen Direction (http://giancarlovolpe.tumblr.com/post/32071328926/hey-kids-if-youre-a-filmmaker-animator-or)
Semi-basic Perspective (http://conceptart.org/forums/tutorials-tips-tricks/267246-semi-basic-perspective-tutorials.html)

Traditional
Russell Stutler on sketching (http://www.stutler.cc/other/sketchbook/sketchbook_c_01.html)
Shading Basics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V3WmrWUEIJo)
Watercolour Tuts (http://www.watercolorpainting.com/watercolor-tutorials.htm)
Graphite Portraits (http://treijim.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Graphite-Portraits-82895664)
Shading and Blending (http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=Shading+Tutorial#/d11w3vc)
Colouring with Coloured Pencils (http://iokothepanda.deviantart.com/art/How-to-colour-with-colourpencils-tutorial-348069056)
Watercolour Cheat Codes (http://carryalaser.tumblr.com/post/32840437337/watercolour-cheat-codes-i-made-really-quick)
Graphite Tutorial (http://treijim.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Graphite-Portraits-82895664)

Digital
 Digital Painting (http://www.ctrlpaint.com/)
Character Design in Photoshop (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=109491)
Howtodigitalpaint.com (http://www.howtodigitalpaint.com/)
Inking in Photoshop (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=237574)
Digtal Painting Study (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56806)
Watercolours In Photoshop (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=170975)
Painting realistic hair (http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/tutorial_how_to_paint_realistic_hair)
Cleaning Lineart (http://kureo95.deviantart.com/art/Tutorial-Cleaning-Lineart-164450877)
Concept Art 101 (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81332)
Game Art (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76898)
Character Design (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221166)
What Makes a Character (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232977)
Blending (http://art-tutorials.tumblr.com/image/14419847416)
Step-by-step painting (http://art-tutorials.tumblr.com/post/14228215585/payface-bit-of-a-walkthrough-process-thing-here)
Paint tool Sai tutorials megapost (http://referencesforartists.tumblr.com/post/36548580489/rhyhorn-hi-i-came-across-this-really-really)
Cell Shading (http://referencesforartists.tumblr.com/post/36591933955/mrpunchinello-myshrinkingviolet-blue-ten)
Coloring traditional lineart (http://onone-chan.deviantart.com/art/Traditional-lineart-and-colouring-tutorial-348125055)

Youtube and Livestreams
Maullar's Perfect Art Class  :V [Live Stream] (http://www.livestream.com/maullart)
Online Art [YouTube] (http://www.youtube.com/user/skiptothelove)
Draw Tips [Youtube] (http://www.youtube.com/user/drawtips)
Sinix Design[YouTube] (http://www.youtube.com/user/sinixdesign)
Sycra[YouTube] (http://www.youtube.com/user/sycra)
CGArtSuccess (http://www.youtube.com/user/CGArtSuccess#p/u)
FZDSCHOOL (http://www.youtube.com/user/FZDSCHOOL)

Other Resources and Refs
Simply Textures (http://simplytextures.com/)
Hair Styles (http://www.hairstylesdesign.com/)
Dresses I like (http://dressesthatilike.tumblr.com/)
1920's Fashion (http://1920s.tumblr.com/)  1930's Fashion (http://1930s.tumblr.com/)  1940's Fashion (http://1940s.tumblr.com/)  1950's Fashion (http://1950s.tumblr.com/)
Vouge (http://vogue.tumblr.com/)

Free art software
My Paint (http://mypaint.intilinux.com/)
Fire Alpaca (http://firealpaca.com/)
AutoDesk Skecthbook Copic Edition (http://copic.jp/en/sketchbook-ce.html)
Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/)
Krita (http://krita.org/)

Recommendations



Music Links
Learn How to play piano (http://www.zebrakeys.com/lessons/)
Learn How To Produce Your Own Music In LMMS  [Youtube] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFomRRDkv84&feature=my_watch_later_videos&list=WL9501DDAF04E0560B)
*Haha, Musicians please help me out with this part...  :derp:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: DX7.EP on March 17, 2012, 04:49:40 pm
Illustration:
I highly recommend the book Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. It helps correct many common mistakes in illustration (crushed forehead included) and offers a pretty effective approach to drawing things that really helps out. The later versions also include a bit on colour theory.

Music:
I guess we music-oriented types can cover for that.

General Tips (for music-writing):
 - Can't find a sample or instrument you exactly want, only approximates? After getting to the close match, modify it by adjusting a few parameters, adding effects, layering sounds, or even editing the raw sample directly (it all depends on what you intend to do, as well as your work setup). It certainly beats having to scour the web for what you want most of the time.

Specific Tips (for particular synths, programs, etc.):
 - MSGS may be shit, but it's still a bit versatile. Some patches, for instance, can be modified to simulate a low-pass filter. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0daRnCj4SQ)
 - FM synth users are best off downloading or purchasing a pack of presets for their synthesizers, even if they know how to program them, since it can take too long to do the latter. Many of these presets come in SYX files you can import directly into your DAW, so that the instrument loads directly. DX-7/TX-7 patches are most common and will work with most 6-op or higher FM synths, as well as FM7/FM8.
 - Sonar X1, Vista/7/8: External MIDI synth playback can cause a good but of latency, usually on laptops and weaker systems. Turning off MMCSS under Audio -> Playback and Recording alleviates the problem (tested on ThinkPad x201, comparing 64-bit Win7 to 32-bit Win2k3 R2).
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on March 17, 2012, 05:01:34 pm
Add posemaniacs to the links list.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on March 18, 2012, 02:03:50 am
@EP Thanks! I'll leave the specific tips in your post, (Unless you want me to put it in something like a wordpress post so it can be made into a bigger list later?)

and Posemaniacs added to the list!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 20, 2012, 02:38:48 pm
can we add this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/crapitalism/Art%20Helpers/nDHgD.jpg) to the OP too
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 21, 2012, 09:37:09 pm
Here's another good tutorial (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm) with a little bit of everything, and in addition I'd like to shamelessly plug my Livestream (http://www.livestream.com/maullart) channel :V
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on March 21, 2012, 11:39:04 pm
Oh crap I thought I added the PSG link, it totally slipped my mind.
And thank you very much for the livestream!  :V
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on April 22, 2012, 03:44:21 am
Whoops! I almost forgot about this topic!

Added about 12 more links to the Visual art section and will most likely add more in a few hours along with some music tips.

Happy drawing! or something like that.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on June 26, 2012, 07:55:08 pm
Lines keep running into each other? Try this guide to tangents. (http://curiousoldlibrary.blogspot.ca/2011/10/schweizer-guide-to-spotting-tangents.html)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on June 27, 2012, 01:31:35 am
Reposting here because I think it's generally useful:

What is meant by grasping the fundamentals is to see a cute girl, or a dinosaur, or a house not as a collection of lines, but as an amalgam of simpler shapes. Although a drawing is made of lines, it's not the lines that you're drawing. As the above linked shadow exercise shows, sometimes you can do away with lines entirely--because it's ultimately volume that you're trying to show, the peaks where light gathers and the valleys where light can't get in. As an illustrative example, and these links are slightly NSFW:

I start with a basic stick figure to get the pose down. (http://i.imgur.com/IdBL6.jpg) At this point I'm not worried about details at all, as long as the joints are in the right places and proportions are about correct (torso and arms 2 heads long, each half of the leg a little less). For further guidance, I draw in a ball and plane (http://www.stanprokopenko.com/blog/2009/05/draw-head-any-angle/) for the head, a cut-off egg for the rib cage, and a couple angled ovals at crotch level to represent the pelvic bones.

Second, I start adding volume to my stick figure. (http://i.imgur.com/ee36Q.jpg) In this, art books provide useful practice (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/crapitalism/Artwork/musclepractice.jpg) - these studies come from Loomis's Figure Drawing for All It's Worth. (http://www.amazon.com/Figure-Drawing-All-Its-Worth/dp/0857680986)

Only here, with the underlying form, pose and shapes laid out, do I concern myself with hair and eyes and other details. (http://i.imgur.com/8T1tO.jpg)

e: Finished product. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/crapitalism/Artwork/madoka-shibarikini-websize.jpg)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on July 01, 2012, 06:06:52 am
Russell Stutler on sketching (http://www.stutler.cc/other/sketchbook/sketchbook_c_01.html)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on July 03, 2012, 01:09:58 am
For those of you on the art-appreciator side of things--Ctrl+Paint's Matt Kohr (http://vimeo.com/44864213) speaks on critique and how to make it as useful as it can be.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 11, 2012, 02:47:43 pm
Looking at the ten tips to become a better artist, I have a question: how do I learn to accept failure as a positive thing? I can read those tips, but I don't know how to apply them :/ I'd appreciate help with this.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on July 12, 2012, 06:12:49 am
Looking at the ten tips to become a better artist, I have a question: how do I learn to accept failure as a positive thing? I can read those tips, but I don't know how to apply them :/ I'd appreciate help with this.
I don't know how to explain it properly. But I'd say the way I try to accept failure as a positive thing is to just  move on and be happy with the end results even if its nowhere near the results I imaged...

That is, if I'm not punching myself in the face after I finish a drawing.   :derp:
I'm still learning how to accept failure myself for the most part.

For those of you on the art-appreciator side of things--Ctrl+Paint's Matt Kohr (http://vimeo.com/44864213) speaks on critique and how to make it as useful as it can be.

And Matt Kohr's other videos are very recommended for those into digital painting.  if anyone wants to, check out his site.  :V
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 13, 2012, 03:59:38 pm
Hm, i c. Thanks for the answer, though I could still use more help with that.

Also, another question: how do I make drawing something that relaxes me? I heard that's a common effect of drawing, but more often than not it makes my mood worse, perhaps due to not being able to really accept failure.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on July 13, 2012, 04:35:30 pm
Oh, I am reading now the art tips, but I am missing some music tips, I am starting to learn eletronic keyboard by myself and I am using this site (http://www.zebrakeys.com/lessons/ (http://www.zebrakeys.com/lessons/)) as initial reference, the beginner lessons are pretty good in my opinion . Also I am training to use Linux Multimedia Music Studio (LMMS) in my computer to create musics for my game, a good tutorial for dummies to create musics using only your computer and LMMS is this one  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFomRRDkv84&feature=my_watch_later_videos&list=WL9501DDAF04E0560B (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFomRRDkv84&feature=my_watch_later_videos&list=WL9501DDAF04E0560B) .

Music artits pls give me more tips links :D
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KrackoCloud on July 13, 2012, 05:12:57 pm
Hm, i c. Thanks for the answer, though I could still use more help with that.

Also, another question: how do I make drawing something that relaxes me? I heard that's a common effect of drawing, but more often than not it makes my mood worse, perhaps due to not being able to really accept failure.
Well in a way you answered your own question :U
People who find drawing relaxing either have little standards in mind, or they're so good they don't have to try. So it's the mindset and/or skillset.
You and I, we probably don't have either. :U
I definitely don't always find drawing relaxing. But at the very least, I do find it fun. Like chess or Touhou, it's fun and frustrating at the same time. Seeing a drawing turn out the way I like it feels great but takes forever - But that's just part of the game, imo.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on July 13, 2012, 06:28:18 pm
Would go to them but avast! is being a douche :getdown:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on July 13, 2012, 06:31:26 pm
Use MSE. :I


e-
Hm, i c. Thanks for the answer, though I could still use more help with that.

Also, another question: how do I make drawing something that relaxes me? I heard that's a common effect of drawing, but more often than not it makes my mood worse, perhaps due to not being able to really accept failure.
If you don't like drawing, just stop...?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 13, 2012, 08:01:24 pm
@Krackocloud: then, that brings me back to the issue of getting able to accept failure.

@Kinoko: Due to my circumstances, drawing is not something i can simply give up. I need to become a good artist for the sake of my future. It's complicated...maybe I'll make an entry in LettyJournal about it sometime.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KrackoCloud on July 14, 2012, 01:48:38 am
Accepting failure is pretty straightforward. You just acknowledge that a drawing sucks (usually not that hard :U ) and work hard not to make the same mistakes next time (Practice!).

I should mention that if drawing is really going to be that vital to your future, you might not have the luxury of treating it like a hobby. Depending on how serious things are, relaxation is probably the least of your concerns. Then, treat it like any other discipline - Math, music, etc. Meaning at times, it's going to be slow, boring, discouraging, and you're just gonna have to force your way through things.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on July 14, 2012, 07:55:07 am
@Krackocloud: then, that brings me back to the issue of getting able to accept failure.

@Kinoko: Due to my circumstances, drawing is not something i can simply give up. I need to become a good artist for the sake of my future. It's complicated...maybe I'll make an entry in LettyJournal about it sometime.

Having little standards in mind if you're trying to relax is the best way to go. Seriously, don't even worry about how it turns out when you're drawing to relax, scribble all over the place. Doesn't even  matter if you can identify what it is in the end.

Also pretty much what Kracko said. If you're going to need art in your future you better start pushing yourself.  I dunno exactly what  you want to do with your drawing skills in the future. (I'd love to know why its so vital!) But I'm sure its not going to be easy to get there. It never really is. Its pretty much all hard work. 

I mean for example, I've been lacking actual practice for the past few weeks. So as of yesterday I've made a drawing routine  witch includes me sketching for about 3 hours everyday taking breaks in-between and whenever I start to feel unmotivated or catch myself getting impatient and loosing my attention  I do a 10-20 in place jog and I find that gets me back on track. From there the time I draw everyday can increase once I get used to my previous hours.  Trying something like that would be an option. I mean doesn't have to be the exact same thing, choose your own time and source of motivation if you want.

And never go near Christopher Hart's books.  :colbert:

Lastly, two links I want to highlight:
Need Motivation? (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138102)
Stop Whining, Start Working (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223223)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 14, 2012, 11:26:52 am
@KrackoCloud: I somewhat understand (that I'll need to get more serious), but what do you mean by forcing my way through it? Go through more good books, at a faster pace than I do now? Also, other than realizing my drawing sucks, how do I identify my "same mistakes"? That part always confused me.

@SuperParadox: Answering your advice in order:
I can try that.
What do you mean by "pushing myself"?
On my off-time I guess I'll go typing up a post explaining my situation and post it to LJ.
Yeah, of course it'd be hard work....I've been at it for over 4 years.
Hmm, I think I can make a routine like that. I think that'll help.
Yeah, his books are the devil. They're really not for beginners.
I'll go try the advice in those links. Thanks.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Vyrien on July 14, 2012, 06:06:08 pm
@Krackocloud: then, that brings me back to the issue of getting able to accept failure.

@Kinoko: Due to my circumstances, drawing is not something i can simply give up. I need to become a good artist for the sake of my future. It's complicated...maybe I'll make an entry in LettyJournal about it sometime.

Just, whatever you do, under any circumstance, don't give up.

 Practise (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=705924)
 makes (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=557282)
perfect. (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=556431)

Yes it's old, it's tired, it's cliched but it is true, and if you give up now thinking you are shit, then you will always be shit. It will take time, but it will come, you just need to be prepared to put in the extra effort. As for dealing with failure, it'll really sting when someone points out that your art is bad, but the harsher they are, the faster you grow as an artist. I can't really tell you how to react when someone knocks your efforts but if you learn from your mistakes then that's the fastest road to improvement in my opinion.

As another more personal example, this is one of my best efforts from early 2011:  OC Rinae (http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/627/rinae0001.jpg)
These are speedpaints/WIPs that took 1-2 hours from early June 2012: Medicine (http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1866/kawaiinomedialteyes.png) and Remilia (http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/6902/remiheadshotcolourfix.png)

I'm not the best by any stretch of the imagination and am probably not qualified to give this kind of advice considering the QUALITY of my drawing :V, but keep at it and you will most definitely improve.

Also, it's great to see the art tips threads revived, I love 'em!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KrackoCloud on July 14, 2012, 06:17:40 pm
Forcing your way through doesn't necessarily mean going faster, esp. if that means you won't absorb the knowledge and skills as well. You just need to be more relentless in drawing. Spend more time practicing, and practice even you don't feel like it. It's comparable to hardcore studying for some other discipline.

Seeing your own mistakes can be pretty difficult. Sometimes it takes days before I see a big glaring flaw in one of my drawings. If you really can't find any mistakes, then you've got to ask for criticism. It'll hurt, but if you've properly acknowledged that your drawings already are bad, then it makes more sense and is easier to accept and work off of.

Also, try doing more focused pieces, like just the head and upper body. This way, it's easier to pinpoint problems.
Once you have one part down, increase the scope of your drawings, or start playing with harder poses. If you try to do everything at once, it can be overwhelming to address all the problems. You might not even know where to start fixing things.
This kind of thing applies to a lot of skills, like game programming or music. If you go in trying to make an FPS from the start or playing some awesome VGM, you just might walk out totally disheartened. I guess the lesson is just be patient.

SuperParadox's links seem pretty useful, so I'd further encourage you to take a look!
Also, I too feel like disclaiming that I'm still an amateur. If my advice is good, that still doesn't mean I'm an awesome 'drawer.' :U
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on July 14, 2012, 07:58:22 pm
How to draw hands and feet/shoes.
Also, I found this website (http://easypianoscore.mad.buttobi.net/) and it contains some midis of the Touhou songs. I was thinking with FL Studio 10 I could use them to make remixes of the touhou songs, but is there a better way? IMO copy and pasting midis sounds newb-ish  :V
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on July 15, 2012, 02:50:09 am
Seeing your own mistakes can be pretty difficult. Sometimes it takes days before I see a big glaring flaw in one of my drawings. If you really can't find any mistakes, then you've got to ask for criticism. It'll hurt, but if you've properly acknowledged that your drawings already are bad, then it makes more sense and is easier to accept and work off of.

Truth. Another method is to try and get a different perspective on your own work--to see your drawing, if not objectively, then at least as a figure and not just 'hey, here's Reimu.' If you've watched my streams, you'll notice I flip my canvas a lot--SAI does it instantly with the 'H' hotkey, and it's very helpful for spotting errors and things that just look plain weird. On paper, you might turn the paper upside down and take a good look to see if you can pick out anything weird.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 15, 2012, 12:16:54 pm
@Vyrien: I'd love to take the "never give up" advice to heart (honestly), but considering I've gone through 4 years and have made so little progress, time considered... well, that  makes it way easier said than done. Also, to clarify, I can deal with the sting of someone pointing out my art is bad, it's just that I can hardly take the sting of hardly executing my drawings well.

@KrackoCloud: I think I get it now. I'll be more relentless, make more focused pieces, and more thoroughly check those links. I'll try to be patient  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Vyrien on July 15, 2012, 02:04:14 pm
Also, to clarify, I can deal with the sting of someone pointing out my art is bad, it's just that I can hardly take the sting of hardly executing my drawings well.

I understand, in that case, have you perhaps tried a different style or type of drawing? Naturally I draw semi-realism and it's very difficult for me to draw something cartoony. It could be that you are forcing yourself to draw in a certain style when you'd have much more ease drawing another way. Or maybe you just aren't good with people, I know I'm not. :3 Lastly, if it is anatomy as a whole you have trouble with, try figure drawing studies. I find memes, progress drawing videos, exercises and tutorials are also really helpful. It took me a total of six years to get to the level I am now, three of those I made little to no progress in. So I'll reiterate, don't give up! We are all here to help.

Kracko is right with the focused pieces, I found just sketching heads/hands/eyes etc. incredibly helpful.

Paintchats are useful as well when the people aren't just doodling anthro. OTL
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 22, 2012, 03:00:16 pm
Figure drawing's what I've mainly been doing, yeah. As for another style...well, anime's the style I want to learn to draw well in. What do you mean by memes, progress drawing vids, and such? Could you give me some examples, please? Thanks for the support, though. As a man with no money and thus few resources, I'm glad to have people helping me out from the kindness in their hearts.

Also, Vyrien, I'm sorry you had to go through 3 years with little to no progress. That kind of thing should never happen to anyone.  :ohdear:

Also, how do I learn to draw more accurately by looking at other people's work? Just looking doesn't really give me any insight. :/ Also, could someone please correct this rough sketch I made (http://imgur.com/oLFZE) so it looks right, along with arrows pointing to the corrected parts compared to the original? I seem to learn best when I see corrected versions of my own flawed artwork that way.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on July 22, 2012, 05:36:41 pm
Just because you're aiming for one style doesn't mean you shouldn't try others.  :V

some progress videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g857UNIKQsM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3adKjDyoxM&feature=related

Seeing artwork go from a basic sketch to a beautiful piece can be really reassuring.

Memes:
http://www.pixiv.net/tags.php?tag=2010%E7%B5%B5%E5%B8%AB%E9%80%B2%E5%8C%96%E9%8C%B2
http://www.pixiv.net/tags.php?tag=10%E5%B9%B4%E9%80%B2%E5%8C%96%E9%8C%B2
http://draw-this-again-meme.deviantart.com/

Also my own improvement: http://fav.me/d4zfoig   :derp:

As for learning how to draw by looking at other peoples work, I would guess it depends on the type of learner you are.  Also don't just look actually STUDY the image.

And since i'm bad at correcting others work I'll leave that to someone else.  :ohdear:


Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 22, 2012, 06:53:15 pm
So, what effect is watching those progress videos supposed to have on me? Also, what do you mean by studying other people's work? And, to be honest here, I'm unable to do those memes; I threw away most of my works.

I'd still appreciate a correction of that pic I posted, though.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Vyrien on July 23, 2012, 01:14:18 pm
 This is my favourite process video ever. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqwqioVw74&feature=related)
 And this is my second favourite. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_939713&feature=iv&src_vid=7XOWxWWwPkc&v=ywaAEbv1Xe4)
 Look up some of the other videos on this guy's channel, he goes around NicoNico uploading processes of awesome artists, you'll be sure to find one that matches your ideal style there. Then watch it and rewatch it until you can see how the artist forms the stroke, how they hold the pen, how they draft the proportions. This is what it means to study the drawing.

I think I can see part of your problem but it's something you have to figure out on your own or you won't learn anything. I had the same issue.

As for correcting your sketch, I don't mind doing it but give me some time, I have a lot on my plate ATM.

Also my own improvement: http://fav.me/d4zfoig   :derp:
I love that before and after, Paradox, I had to look twice though because at first I thought the improved version was the second one. :V
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on July 23, 2012, 01:25:14 pm
someoni answer my question  :getdown:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KrackoCloud on July 23, 2012, 03:46:47 pm
Sorry Fondue, I think the only thing I could give you tips on is hands. :U
A lot of people seem to teach it via skeletons and stuff, but although I'm not the hand-drawin' master, I think it would be better actually to start with references. You'll find that pretty much any practical hand pose you'll need is in a manga or reference collection. Once you get the hang of that, you can move on to skeletons and whatnot for the more complicated finger-poses.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on July 23, 2012, 04:42:47 pm
Okay, that might work, thanks.
I might as well do the copy-paste thing after all then.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 28, 2012, 04:02:23 pm
Every time I take more than 10 minutes at a time to draw, I tend to feel queasy. I think its because of my fear of drawing (which I've had for quite some time now). How do I fix this fear?

Also, when I try to apply the advice I've been give, it just never works for me. I never gain any insight or anything. Maybe I'm applying it wrong. So, how do I apply all these tips?

Also, how do I silence my inner critic? He's been one of my major obstacles since the beginning.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KrackoCloud on July 28, 2012, 11:07:01 pm
At this point it seems pretty clear that you don't like drawing, even if you want to. Although I'm not sure you're exactly afraid of drawing, I understand why you might be tense about it. Unfortunately, you just can't make yourself like something. You should know as well as I do that it just doesn't work like that. I'm going to reiterate the point that you have to treat drawing as a serious discipline, which means you're just going to have to learn to force yourself to practice whether you like it or not - Like studying for a final from a class you're about to fail.
But remember that you don't have to like something to become good at it. However, if you choose this mindset, then enjoyment will mean very little. You can't worry about having fun when you draw. Just draw. Emphasize technical aspects, and not artistic self-expression. It sounds almost heretic. In general though, it's not as uncommon as you think. No one has fun trying to get the same music notes down over and over, or studying to death, or practicing shooting a hoop for the hundredth time. For these people, and maybe for you, it's not about enjoyment. It's about willpower, perseverance, sacrifice, and just plain old forcing yourself to do it.


Anyway, for practice, you could try copying some simple drawings. Not tracing, of course, and definitely not just once. Redraw the same reference picture over and over.
While you're at it, analyze the picture. Think about how the artist drew this picture. What guidelines might he have used? What proportions are the most important to get right for this angle and pose? This part technically seems disproportional, so why does it still look okay? Think about some tutorials you've read in the past. Does this picture fit in with what the tutorials say? Stuff like that.

I would highly discourage silencing your inner critic. We've talked about accepting failure, and this is like that. To silence your inner critic is to ignore the problems in your drawing. If he sees something wrong, you probably should fix it. Like a strict editor, he's not there just to oppose you - He's there to work with you.
And when you do try to fix something, it probably won't resolve within the first try. You may have to redraw something countless times before it looks right. But if you do it enough, you'll start to get a handle on your weaknesses.
Also tip: Use references so you always know what something's supposed to look like. Trying to guess your way through a drawing, though it sounds pretty dumb, happens admittedly more often to each of us than we'd like to think.

So yeah. Basically, practice more, worry less. If things are discouraging, just force yourself through the hard times, though you don't know when those times will end. It's not always fun, and that's just how it is. But you've heard that enough times from me.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 29, 2012, 02:51:39 pm
I... can't just make myself like something? That's the opposite of what my high school art teacher told me when I asked her for help...but she's incompetent, so I'll believe you. All right. I'll force myself harder, and try everything you suggested, with all the repetition. Though, what do you mean by technical aspects, and what would be an example of a simple drawing? And, about analyzing...how can I figure out how the artist drew the picture?

And about my inner critic, I want to silence it because it isn't helpful at all; he just tells me I did the drawing wrong, but not how to fix it or where exactly the problem is. It's an destructive critic; rather than working with me he seems to just want to troll me like some 4chan asshat :ohdear: Also, where would I find references?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KrackoCloud on July 29, 2012, 09:01:27 pm
I don't want to be discouraging. When I say a person can't make himself like something, I don't mean you'll hate drawing forever. You can definitely change your mindset and/or motivate yourself. You might end up liking drawing more as you get better. But it's nearly impossible to just wake up one day and decide that drawing is going to be your favorite thing from now on, you know?
Anyway, it's still only my take on things. I could just be more pessimistic than some other people.

Moving on! Technical aspects are basically things like proportions and perspective, coloring and shading.

A simple drawing can be found pretty easily. A picture of a person standing and looking to the side is pretty simple, unless his/her clothing is particularly complex. A picture of just a person's head is also usually pretty simple. There shouldn't be a lot of movement. You should be able to find a few just by reading a non-action manga.

How to know how an artist draws something? You may never know for sure, but as I mentioned, you can try reconciling the pictures with tutorials you've seen.
For example, when I just started learning how to draw, tutorials commonly told me that heads should start with a circle. So whenever I saw pictures of people, esp. while reading manga, I would look at them and try to see if I could fit in a base circle. Sometimes, it didn't work, since a number of manga styles use slightly stretched heads.
Or, many say that a human figure is about 7-8 heads tall. While reading Bleach, I noticed that the artist tends to make his characters even taller than that.
Basically, the idea is to figure out which guidelines work for certain styles. Analyzing pictures like this will help you recognize styles, form your own personal rules for drawing, and see your own pictures more objectively.
Some people also have sped up videos of their drawing processes, so you can see where they start and what guidelines they use. This can be pretty helpful too.

If your inner critic is just telling you it's wrong, the fact still stands that something's wrong about the picture. But you'll need to figure it out. Do an analysis of your own picture, just like with others. Think about the rules you've learned about proportions. Compare your picture with references.
Don't stop trying to figure out what's wrong, or else the same mistake will live even longer! If you need help finding the problems, well, you've got an art forum right here.
There's always going to be that part of you that calls your drawings terrible, even when you get better. But hopefully, as you improve, he'll become a bit more civil about it. At the very least, use that hope to motivate you to practice harder.

References? As usual, just read some manga :U. If you're looking for a particular pose, even just Google Images should be more than enough. You might find some links to stock image websites from there, too.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on July 29, 2012, 09:45:06 pm
References? As usual, just read some manga :U.
Don't do this.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KrackoCloud on July 29, 2012, 10:06:19 pm
Don't do this.
Whoops. Sorry Termspeon. I forgot art's gonna be really important for your future. Forget about that :x
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on July 29, 2012, 10:19:15 pm
You still haven't explained why you absolutely must learn to draw.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on July 31, 2012, 11:35:42 am
@KrackoCloud: Yeah, things don't "just" work like that, despite that I've grown up being taught. I'll try out all that advice, with repetition as well. Thanks.

@Kinoko: It's complicated and I'd rather not explain, but art is a skill I'll need to supplement another skill I'll be working on after I get good enough at art (it's not like art will be my main occupation, though it'll be just as important).
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Shmarah on August 05, 2012, 07:55:43 pm
I find it kind of funny when people decide they're gonna learn anatomy and actually pick up a Gray's Anatomy book and attempt to learn the scientific names for every muscle and bone. -.- Honestly, great, you can be a doctor, but just because doctors have the human body down pat doesn't mean they can draw it.
Why? It's because what people need more than a knowledge of anatomy is a sense of it.
What helps tremendously, I find, is holding a picture up to a mirror or, if working digitally, flipping the picture.
Unless I flip a picture several times while digitally drawing, I find that my eyes stop seeing errors in slant and proportion. I know it might sound weird, but try it with a picture, preferably while you're still working on it; staring at the same thing for a while can make you see it a lot differently than other people will, and it really helps.

I've developed a sort of motto, that artistic skill doesn't depend on how well you can make art, but how well you can see it.
Sorry if I sound condescending;; My older sister is an artist, and by talking to me in a somewhat belittling, but very constructive, way on the topic of art, I improved from derpy animu faces to realism very quickly. Hated myself and my art for a good while, but I guess that comes with it.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on August 05, 2012, 09:45:49 pm
^ This.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KageTori on August 11, 2012, 05:03:24 am
I lol'd when I read of "Learn How To Produce Your Own Music In LMMS".
LMMS is constantly thrown around as a joke on My Little Remix since its like the equivalent of Windows Movie Maker, it's not exactly pro, but whatever.
Eh, I'm not very helpful I guess... I just mess around with stuff (Sytrus, Synth1, NI Massive and Harmless to be specific) until I find a sound I like, then I use those sounds. Even though I didn't (still don't) know what I was doing, I accidentally found some pretty good sounds. I honestly didn't have any clue of what most of the already existing music tips were talking about...  ???
As for the actual music writing, just lay out some random chords that sound like they would go good together, then make a melody that goes with it. You don't have to read a bunch of books or web pages to hear dissonance or just something that plain sounds bad. Once you do that, just keep adding to it with what you think sounds good. I'm not sure how to word it, but it's best to avoid using your conscious mind too much... feel and do it, don't think about yourself putting thought into it. (A general rule for most art I keep to myself anyways)

Also, "Music is art too!" can't everything be considered art really?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Vyrien on August 11, 2012, 08:27:50 am

Also, "Music is art too!" can't everything be considered art really?

Go to deviantart then come back here and tell me that :V

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Shmarah on August 11, 2012, 12:39:37 pm
CAN'T EVERYTHING BE CONSIDERED ART?!
okay that actually trips a wire in my brain; the other day my friend was saying that you shouldn't "falsely label" yourself an "artist" unless creating art is your "job." Therefore, unless I'm making money, or have a large following, I am not an artist, and he will get annoyed if I call myself that instead of my proper title: "Hobbyist."
It may seem like a stupid argument, but I really got angry when he said Leonardo DaVinci---who was sublimely unpopular while he was alive and people only started buying his paintings after he was dead--- wasn't an artist. Until after he died.
If you ask me, an artist is someone who creates art. Someone who only creates art for the money actually sounds... anti-artistic, but that could be just me.  :derp:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Skyler on August 12, 2012, 01:13:31 am
I really need help with realistic expressions - especially profile ones. Whenever I try to draw someone with an angry expression they always come out looking distraught or sad, and I can't find any useful tutorials.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on September 19, 2012, 12:30:49 pm
Okay sorry for necro-bumping but
How do I draw shoes and feet?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Merp on September 19, 2012, 03:24:05 pm
Okay sorry for necro-bumping but
How do I draw shoes and feet?

you don't becuz boots are the only thing you should draw :v   Booooootsmasterrace
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on September 19, 2012, 04:11:37 pm
you don't becuz boots are the only thing you should draw :v   Booooootsmasterrace
But Satori wears shoes and I'm trying to draw her :V
:v

:V*
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Vyrien on September 19, 2012, 04:48:57 pm
But Satori wears shoes and I'm trying to draw her :V

:getdown:*

Satori wears slippers not shoes, you should draw her with boots anyway!

 I found this useful though. (http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=shoes+tutorial#/d46jv0m)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on September 19, 2012, 04:53:50 pm
BUT REIMU DOES-


Oh well thanks anyway
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on September 19, 2012, 10:53:27 pm
BUT REIMU DOES-


Oh well thanks anyway
boots
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: DX7.EP on September 20, 2012, 06:14:31 am
I found this useful though. (http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=shoes+tutorial#/d46jv0m)
I find feet in general a bit difficult, so thanks for the link. (saving Tyshea's tut for use in this)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on September 20, 2012, 08:04:21 pm
I really need help with realistic expressions - especially profile ones. Whenever I try to draw someone with an angry expression they always come out looking distraught or sad, and I can't find any useful tutorials.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/crapitalism/Art%20Helpers/th_expressions1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v130/crapitalism/Art%20Helpers/?action=view&current=expressions1.jpg)

Even if you're drawing baby-faced animu girls or otherwise turning down the definition, you still need to understand the underlying shapes are there. Get some face time in front of a mirror, make funny faces, consider how each expression pulls the various muscles in different directions. Like how a smile pulls the cheeks and the corners of the mouth and the skin around the eyes outward to the sides. That kind of thing.

This is a good source of funny faces, too (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3507620)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on November 20, 2012, 02:58:09 am
Wow, has it really been two months? Anyway, here's a really useful tutorial on shading basics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V3WmrWUEIJo), one of the best I've seen.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: KrackoCloud on November 20, 2012, 04:25:37 am
Does anyone have any experience with a Monoprice tablet? I'm only hearing good things about it left and right, but I'm just making sure. It sounds pretty great.
Also, there's apparently this tracing flap. Does it work well? Do most models have it?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on November 20, 2012, 05:12:04 am
Pack of academic drawings. (http://d01.megashares.com/dl/jenDmfs/Academic drawings.rar)
e- that didn't work very well at all :V
uploading to Mediafire
e2- http://www.mediafire.com/?zpgkz5rrwk7ffqj,zapvppnyx29fs48,9caq8wuez134ws6,az3aupk6c3xv8n3
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Vyrien on November 20, 2012, 08:53:11 am
Wow, has it really been two months? Anyway, here's a really useful tutorial on shading basics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V3WmrWUEIJo), one of the best I've seen.

Thanks Malluar, I love how well it explains the reason shadow exists.

Most people's difficulty with drawing, I think, is due to them not knowing how the thing they are drawing would work in a real-life situation.

btw Kinoko, holy shit that's useful.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on November 21, 2012, 02:12:39 am
Links have been added!  :V

I'll add some more tuts and such later.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on December 07, 2012, 12:14:39 pm
copy and pasting is hard work.  :derp:

New links added, I'll add some more when I come home from school probably. 
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: fondue on December 07, 2012, 01:52:27 pm
I apologise if this is offensive  :ohdear: , but where is a woman's waist? I need to know how long the legs should be and where I should draw the skirt/whatever.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on December 07, 2012, 05:58:53 pm
At work and can't draw an example right now, but a woman's torso (from neck to crotch) is 2 heads long and legs (from top of the hip to bottom of the foot) are about 4 heads long. A woman's waist is a bit more than halfway down the torso.

e: rough example of what I mean (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/crapitalism/Artwork/musclepractice.jpg)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Zork787 on December 10, 2012, 10:53:08 am
Dunno if anyone's linked this guy yet so here http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCD2CF65888663986

Also, I'm having some trouble with shading this (http://zork-787.deviantart.com/art/Touhou-OC-Yuzuki-Natsura-341916628), I'm really not too sure how to approach it, especially the hair.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on December 11, 2012, 04:23:38 am
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCD2CF65888663986
stop that
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on December 13, 2012, 05:14:06 pm
C'MON IT'S TIME TO GET HYPE SAY HOOP THERE IT IS (http://comictool.blogspot.com/2009/04/this-week-ball-hoop-cone-vase.html)

(pretty good little anatomy resource)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: DX7.EP on December 13, 2012, 08:08:58 pm
Whoa, that's some really handy advice there. :o
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on December 14, 2012, 03:21:31 pm
C'MON IT'S TIME TO GET HYPE SAY HOOP THERE IT IS (http://comictool.blogspot.com/2009/04/this-week-ball-hoop-cone-vase.html)

(pretty good little anatomy resource)
You always find good stuff .  :V

I sorted out the links to make them easier to navigate and find things.
Also, looking for some good background and clothing tuts since the list is lacking.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on December 19, 2012, 05:09:13 am
animation gestures (http://www.floobynooby.com/pdfs/gesturedrawingforanimation.pdf)
Also, quick reminder that this (http://yuumei.deviantart.com/gallery/?q=tutorial#/d58fpqc) is essentially DEVIANTART SANIC RECOLORS: BACKGROUND EDITION before somebody else links it and tells you to use it for whatever infernal reason.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Vyrien on December 19, 2012, 11:42:16 am
animation gestures (http://www.floobynooby.com/pdfs/gesturedrawingforanimation.pdf)
Also, quick reminder that this (http://yuumei.deviantart.com/gallery/?q=tutorial#/d58fpqc) is essentially DEVIANTART SANIC RECOLORS: BACKGROUND EDITION before somebody else links it and tells you to use it for whatever infernal reason.

Thanks for the gestures! I find I learn best from things like this, great find.

Also, did they really just tell us to get a 3D background, filter the fuck out of it and then paint over it? I'm sure that'll improve everyone's skills.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on December 24, 2012, 01:52:37 am
Breaking Through Artist's Block (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb0g_gWrNf8)

Since we all feel this way at one point at another I thought I would highlight this video from a youtube channel I recently added to the list.
It basically explains artist block in theory. I think its worth a watch if you have the time. Also, check out his other videos.

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on December 29, 2012, 11:03:10 pm
Added some new links as well as sections for backgrounds, clothing, composition, references and also a list of some free art programs.

I'll also add some public free domain books later.  :V
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on February 17, 2013, 06:42:11 pm
Is it possible to get a sticky on this thread? Anyway, here's a brief note on shoulders and how to raise them when the arm is raised.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: SuperParadox on February 17, 2013, 06:50:49 pm
^ Seconding that.

Also, I need to remind myself to update the first post later tonight. I've been noticing how much its lacking in some areas.
and change the subject title  :derp:

e: Some new links added. If there's anything you guys want added or need help finding tutorials or information on something please ask. It will help me find things more suited to other people.  :V

I'll also add some public free domain books later.  :V

wow i'm bad at completing tasks I give myself.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: kinoko on February 20, 2013, 06:48:14 am
3D is cool and so, but what you draw is planar arbitrary-by-themselves lines. You cannot create real space within a piece of paper just because the piece is flat.
I wonder if we should move the discussion into other thread, to not derail Espeon's one.
You can't create real space. That's obvious; drawings are 2D. But it's very possible to represent 3D objects on paper.
This is a circle:
(http://i.imgur.com/tEqUbDu.jpg)
This is a sphere:
(http://i.imgur.com/nMuRjiY.jpg)
See the difference? An orange is not a circle. If you tried to draw an orange by drawing a circle, that'd be wrong. If you drew a sphere and called it an orange, you'd still be wrong because oranges aren't spheres. You'd be closer, though. The difference lies in that one looks like a, uh, circle, while the other one is a three-dimensional figure represented on paper.

okay i don't know if that even makes sense and sorry if it's like overly abrasive or something
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on February 20, 2013, 07:23:11 am
Is it possible to get a sticky on this thread?
Guys, that's what the report button is for. We can't exactly check each and every post in each and every thread to see if someone wants a sticky. :V
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Delfigamer on February 20, 2013, 07:38:05 am
okay i don't know if that even makes sense and sorry if it's like overly abrasive or something
It's okay, one must do his best to offend me even a little bit.
What I was saying, among other, is that skill of drawing circles will barely help to draw any orange, since oranges on paper aren't circles.
And lightning goes after shapes, so Espeon won't be able to do light until he draw proper shape. :/

Essentially a process of digestion then? Breaking things down into simpler things.
Which is to say, that you visualize underlying structures as simple polygons and polyhedrons. These themselves are constructed from lines.
What you end up drawing are lines, and the skill to learn is to draw them as you want them to be drawn.
But precisely because lines are arbitrary by themselves, I would suggest one should learn to see shapes instead. In the end you're drawing lines, but they give meaning based on how they associate with other lines.
Look at how it Espeon does it. (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/002deg.jpg/) I'd even say simplification makes him to do mistakes rather than actually help. What I see there are cylinders, cones, spheres, but not shoulders or legs.

I think, muscule's spatial shape is complicated enough to better keep its lines in mind.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: SuperParadox on March 12, 2013, 06:02:27 am
Updated again \0/

Also highlighting this blog post. (http://ctrlpaint.com/blog/choose-to-succeed)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on March 12, 2013, 06:21:46 am
I flipped through How To Draw Comics the Marvel Way the other day, and it's actually a decent book. It's very basic, but does it well and all without any giant walls of boring text.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Teewee on March 13, 2013, 10:13:50 pm

Then, how would I go about learning to draw proper shapes?

Also highlighting this blog post. (http://ctrlpaint.com/blog/choose-to-succeed)

Would it be okay to discuss how to put that blog post into good use?


Can't really see the shoulder ^^;  Mind pointing it out more specifically (with even an oval drawn over each shoulder), and how it looks compared to an arms-not-raised perspective?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II: Music is art too!
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 15, 2013, 07:10:35 am
Then, how would I go about learning to draw proper shapes?

Um, draw shapes? The average TF2 model is made up of about 580 bazillion polygons. If you can't even draw and render one polygon convincingly, then what chance do you have? This is why we practice balls, cups, boxes, and other simple stuff until we get sick of it, then keep practicing them until we're able to draw and shade them from any perspective, any lighting angle. Only then are we ready to move up to humans and other complex subjects.

Quote
Would it be okay to discuss how to put that blog post into good use?

I don't understand the question. When you read that blog post, what did you understand the message to be, and how do you think it was supposed to apply to you?

Quote
Can't really see the shoulder ^^;  Mind pointing it out more specifically (with even an oval drawn over each shoulder), and how it looks compared to an arms-not-raised perspective?

See attached.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on March 17, 2013, 09:14:57 pm
Um, draw shapes? The average TF2 model is made up of about 580 bazillion polygons. If you can't even draw and render one polygon convincingly, then what chance do you have? This is why we practice balls, cups, boxes, and other simple stuff until we get sick of it, then keep practicing them until we're able to draw and shade them from any perspective, any lighting angle. Only then are we ready to move up to humans and other complex subjects.

I think I understand.

I don't understand the question. When you read that blog post, what did you understand the message to be, and how do you think it was supposed to apply to you?

Aside from the bits about entering the commercial business, I understood the messages as advice on getting to improve faster. Specifically, about "choosing not to fail" and "making yourself have fun with it" Which is advice I could use, if I knew how to apply it. I was hoping to discuss ways to overcome mental blocks to be able to successfully apply that advice.

See attached.

From what I thought was the shoulder, the view of it seemed obscured from the first and second fleshed-out pictures from the right. If it's not too much trouble, could you perhaps explain how it is, or explain the proper meaning of a shoulder? Google definitions is rather vague about it... But, I'll be observing that ref to see if I can get my answers that way, so thanks :)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on March 17, 2013, 10:38:03 pm
If it's not too much trouble, could you perhaps explain how it is, or explain the proper meaning of a shoulder?
I

what?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on March 18, 2013, 09:17:01 am
I'll explain: looking at the ref, I knew that all this time I had been seeing shoulders incorrectly, so I asked for an explanation of what a shoulder exactly is, since (as I mentioned) two parts of that ref seemed to obscure the shoulder. In my eyes, that is.

I see shoulders as the parts connected to the sides of the torso, from which the biceps are connected to, if that helps any. See the attached jpg if my words weren't clear enough. :ohdear:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 19, 2013, 02:33:14 am
Aside from the bits about entering the commercial business, I understood the messages as advice on getting to improve faster. Specifically, about "choosing not to fail" and "making yourself have fun with it" Which is advice I could use, if I knew how to apply it. I was hoping to discuss ways to overcome mental blocks to be able to successfully apply that advice.

We've been over this before, albeit in a different context. Without knowing what "mental blocks" you're talking about--that is to say, without being you--we cannot help you on that front. We can provide resources and guidance; what we cannot do is wave our magic wand and make you a better artist, or make you understand a concept. You have to take charge of your own development, which means you need to put in the time, the effort, and the study. Only you can decide what a lesson means to you, and how to apply it in your life.

I'll explain: looking at the ref, I knew that all this time I had been seeing shoulders incorrectly, so I asked for an explanation of what a shoulder exactly is, since (as I mentioned) two parts of that ref seemed to obscure the shoulder. In my eyes, that is.

In the latter two pictures, you're looking at the underside of the arm, and the armpit is visible. Look at the attached image, which you should already be familiar with if you've been reading Loomis. Notice how the shoulder sticks out a bit above the bicep. When the arm is raised, that protrusion doesn't go away--it sits on top of the arm, on the inside (toward the neck) in the third picture, and on the outside (connecting the line that makes up the top of her arm, and the line that makes up her right side) in the fourth. This is very evident if you observe live models. Example:



Shoulders highlighted in red. Notice how the lines of her right arm don't just run straight into her neck--they're broken up by the shoulder jutting out, sitting between arm and neck.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on March 19, 2013, 10:15:59 pm
We've been over this before, albeit in a different context. Without knowing what "mental blocks" you're talking about--that is to say, without being you--we cannot help you on that front. We can provide resources and guidance; what we cannot do is wave our magic wand and make you a better artist, or make you understand a concept. You have to take charge of your own development, which means you need to put in the time, the effort, and the study. Only you can decide what a lesson means to you, and how to apply it in your life.

You seem to be misunderstanding what I'd been saying, somewhat. The reason I didn't divulge on these mental blocks is because I had been asking if it was okay to discuss the contents of that blog post. Was just waiting for the right timing, is all. Also, you make it sound like I'm asking for some magical solution, or that I'm hardly putting any time, effort, or study into learning to draw. As for the former, I'm not. I've no idea where you got that idea, but that certainly isn't the case. As for the latter, it's what I've been doing for all this time, though perhaps incorrectly (or just hindered by my slow learning speed).

Shoulder advice

I'll be studying that a lot. Thanks! Though, it doesn't seem to explain how you don't see the shoulder jut-outs when the arms are raised, like in your previous ref. Thats what I meant earlier, btw; I already know that the shoulder juts out, but thanks for reaffirming it for me! Was kinda unsure there, actually...
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 20, 2013, 03:00:21 am
I'll be studying that a lot. Thanks! Though, it doesn't seem to explain how you don't see the shoulder jut-outs when the arms are raised, like in your previous ref. Thats what I meant earlier, btw; I already know that the shoulder juts out, but thanks for reaffirming it for me! Was kinda unsure there, actually...

Um, yes you do. Like I said, the protruding muscle sits on top of the arm.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on March 20, 2013, 07:36:57 pm
Oh, now I get it! So then, when the arms are raised, the shoulder jut-outs just change position and place (oh, and the jut-outs I was talking about were the ones of the raised arms. sorry for my vagueness!. That a correct observation?

Thanks for the further clarification ^^
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 20, 2013, 08:01:20 pm
Yes, when you raise your arm, you move the entire shoulder joint. Reach across yourself to your back, and you'll find your shoulder is pressing up against your face.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: fondue on April 21, 2013, 04:14:07 pm
Does anybody here know how to draw kemono art? Help please anehbodeh?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: OkashiiKisei on May 06, 2013, 07:59:34 pm
Hmm... there is something I am unsure about, something that is giving me trouble figuring out what direction to take when trying to improve on my drawings.

Well, what I wonder is whether or not you should learn how to draw realistically first before you try more cartoonish and anime-ish styles, or if you should just try and build your own style through trial and error.
Learning to draw realistically would probably teach you a lot about how to draw anatomy correctly, and give you a good idea of how to draw beings and objects beyond your specific interests. But I worry that the principles of realistic art will clash with those of stylized art. That in the end knowing how to draw realistically won't help me with learning how to draw the styles I like.

What I fear just as much though is that by developing an art style of my own, without learning how to draw realistically, I will become incapable of drawing anything else, and that I'll keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
Basically, I simply don't know where to start with improving my art. Though I try and improve my anatomy by sketching outlines and skeletons first before drawing the complete character around it bit by bit, I still have trouble with such things as shading, hair, hands and eyes, as well dynamic movements. 3-dimensional rectangular shapes and edges are a nightmare for me too...

No doubt I'm sounding like an enormous amateur right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated though.
Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 06, 2013, 08:24:25 pm
I'm pretty sure you know what you *should* be learning, and what people are probably going to tell you :U
Because realistic is a big priority!
That being said, even if you choose to go for style first, you will inevitably have to learn realistic anatomy anyway - So it's really just a matter of if you want to put it off for a while or not.

Also, please don't think that realistic drawing doesn't apply to your style. It always does. I can't think of a single art style I've seen that doesn't apply real anatomy to some significant extent.

Except for chibis. Chibis are basically aliens.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on May 06, 2013, 10:28:48 pm
I'm pretty sure you know what you *should* be learning, and what people are probably going to tell you :U
Because realistic is a big priority!
That being said, even if you choose to go for style first, you will inevitably have to learn realistic anatomy anyway - So it's really just a matter of if you want to put it off for a while or not.

Also, please don't think that realistic drawing doesn't apply to your style. It always does. I can't think of a single art style I've seen that doesn't apply real anatomy to some significant extent.

Except for chibis. Chibis are basically aliens.

A million times this. Here, read this. (http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/657) Do you see what he's doing with the muscle guy around the middle of the post? Highly stylized, but everything fits together the same way it would on a real person. All the 'style' in the world won't save a drawing if the character's head is coming out of her shoulder. Similarly, one of the most prevalent newbie mistakes is flatness--the failure to convey a sense of volume or depth. Being able to portray a given shape from any perspective is the sine qua non of successful drawing, which is why you see art students drawing all those fruits and chairs for their classes. The same knowledge of how light and shadow play off different surfaces at different angles is relevant whether you're drawing an apple or a cute girl riding a dragon.

Conversely, trying to develop your own 'style' without knowing realism first will produce results like the Dominic Deegan comic cited in the above link. Style is a bending of the rules, a selective exaggeration of the elements, and you can't do that until you actually know the rules and elements that you intend to play with.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: OkashiiKisei on May 06, 2013, 11:23:36 pm
Had a feeling this would be the case. What has always been a boundary for me is 'draw from life'. The article mentioned (which is an amazing one by the way) you need to draw anything at random from things to animals to people. But how can you do that when most of those things won't even stand still for a minute? Do you have to memorize the entire thing in one go? Is one minute enough to fully draw something you've seen? And should the resulting drawing be highly-detailed or a sketch to simply get the hang of how things fit together?
The article shows many pitfalls that I have fallen in the past. To be honest, hearing the sheer amount of effort and discipline that goes into it makes me lose hope, but that's what makes me people lose before they even start the race. It's just going to be a long, tough ride I guess.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on May 06, 2013, 11:36:58 pm
Had a feeling this would be the case. What has always been a boundary for me is 'draw from life'. The article mentioned (which is an amazing one by the way) you need to draw anything at random from things to animals to people. But how can you do that when most of those things won't even stand still for a minute? Do you have to memorize the entire thing in one go? Is one minute enough to fully draw something you've seen? And should the resulting drawing be highly-detailed or a sketch to simply get the hang of how things fit together?

Have you heard of gesture drawing? In Hidamari Sketch, the girls went to the zoo to do gesture sketches of animals. Gesture sketches are really quick (like 30 seconds to a minute) sketches that just try to capture the basic forms and direction. The idea is to skip over the face and all other extraneous details and just try and get a recognizable human-shape down in the pose you want. And because gesture sketches are so short, you can do tons and tons of them in one session. Here are some of my gesture sketches.

Of course, you can also do a longer pose with a model. They'll stay still because that's their job and they get paid for it. You don't even have to go to an art school--lots of cities have amateur figure drawing classes for about $12-15 per 2-3 hour session.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 06, 2013, 11:43:09 pm
The article shows many pitfalls that I have fallen in the past. To be honest, hearing the sheer amount of effort and discipline that goes into it makes me lose hope, but that's what makes me people lose before they even start the race. It's just going to be a long, tough ride I guess.
Drawing really isn't different from any skill. And just like with any skill, there will always be discouragements and plateaus that make you wonder - why even bother?
I'm glad that you're willing to endure those parts, but you should also consider why you actually want to learn how to draw, because that may very much determine how much motivation and effort you'll output.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: OkashiiKisei on May 07, 2013, 12:06:42 am
Have you heard of gesture drawing? In Hidamari Sketch, the girls went to the zoo to do gesture sketches of animals. Gesture sketches are really quick (like 30 seconds to a minute) sketches that just try to capture the basic forms and direction. The idea is to skip over the face and all other extraneous details and just try and get a recognizable human-shape down in the pose you want. And because gesture sketches are so short, you can do tons and tons of them in one session. Here are some of my gesture sketches.

Of course, you can also do a longer pose with a model. They'll stay still because that's their job and they get paid for it. You don't even have to go to an art school--lots of cities have amateur figure drawing classes for about $12-15 per 2-3 hour session.
While I am much too shy to go to figure drawing classes, gesture sketches sound like a wonderful idea. I tend to cycle around the lake in my area to get fresh air. I can bring a sketch pad while cycling and practice drawing on anything I see. That should help~
Thank you for your advice. :)

Drawing really isn't different from any skill. And just like with any skill, there will always be discouragements and plateaus that make you wonder - why even bother?
I'm glad that you're willing to endure those parts, but you should also consider why you actually want to learn how to draw, because that may very much determine how much motivation and effort you'll output.
Yes. I mainly want to draw for fun, and to catch up with my friends (several of them are rather artsy and I haven't been able to practice in a long time. As such, I lag behind a lot). It's a pretty light motivation, but I think it might get me through.
Thanks for the support~
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on May 07, 2013, 01:04:45 am
I hope you don't mind me "piggybacking" off someone else's questions, but...

All the 'style' in the world won't save a drawing if the character's head is coming out of her shoulder. Similarly, one of the most prevalent newbie mistakes is flatness--the failure to convey a sense of volume or depth.

Then, is the "structure" mentioned in that article about where certain body parts are attached to others, like the head right on the neck? Also, aside from a little shading, what helps convey volume and depth in a drawing?

Also, can anyone please list some common pitfalls, and explain what exactly is a "pitfall"? The dictionary doesn't really make the definition in this context clear ^^; Oh, and when trying to draw the bones and muscles to try to understand underlying anatomy, do you draw them all detailed, or just outline-ish?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Desu_Cake on May 07, 2013, 11:59:40 am
The "structure" is about how everything fits together. You have to visualise what's going on under what you're drawing. To use the example of the head and neck, the neck has the spinal cord and windpipe going through it, so you need to make sure they can connect with the brain and mouth/nose respectively.
Like this:
[attach=1]
Only when you know how things fit together can you exaggerate and de-exaggerate them correctly.
For example, if you want to make the neck thinner, this  (http://imageshack.us/a/img341/8176/headneck2.jpg)is much more correct than this (http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9153/headneck3.jpg) or this (http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9033/headneck4.jpg).

"pitfall" comes from pitfall trap, and it means common mistakes that people often make.

Draw the bones and muscles whatever way you can. TBH, drawing outlines instead of objects is where you're currently falling down at the moment.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on May 08, 2013, 08:05:13 pm
All right, thank you very much ^^ So, how would one go about turning their outlines into objects? Sorry if the answer's obvious enough to make the question sound stupid, I apparently just don't get it, hehe...
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on May 30, 2013, 06:08:05 am
Dynamism for dummies! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1nxf5KQ2Js) Also a nice little insight into construction and sketching in general...
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Rin Kaenbyou on June 03, 2013, 02:22:12 pm
Not sure if goes here...

Well, I want to draw in my original character Chinese clothes, but not typical chinese clothes (like the chinese dress), I want casual Chinese clothes, but i don't know how to search it (in google appear clothes but made in China, not Chinese at all)... any idea?

(No, China's or Yoshika clothes don't work, I want to put on her something more casual-original)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on June 03, 2013, 03:20:31 pm
Not sure if goes here...

Well, I want to draw in my original character Chinese clothes, but not typical chinese clothes (like the chinese dress), I want casual Chinese clothes, but i don't know how to search it (in google appear clothes but made in China, not Chinese at all)... any idea?

(No, China's or Yoshika clothes don't work, I want to put on her something more casual-original)
Wait, what? Like, casual clothes you'd see someone wear in China if you happened to be there now?

Doesn't look all that different. Think Korean with Japanese overt cuteness made in a very cheap sweatshop.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on June 03, 2013, 06:22:56 pm
Not sure if goes here...

Well, I want to draw in my original character Chinese clothes, but not typical chinese clothes (like the chinese dress), I want casual Chinese clothes, but i don't know how to search it (in google appear clothes but made in China, not Chinese at all)... any idea?

(No, China's or Yoshika clothes don't work, I want to put on her something more casual-original)
I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for - have you been in any East Asian countries? Their fashion sense is different, but in general their clothing is almost completely westernized. If you're looking for something modern-exotic, it's not really there, tbh.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Rin Kaenbyou on June 03, 2013, 08:27:16 pm
I know, I konow

I will put this in a easy way: I want my character to be casual, but when you see her, you say "whoa! Chinese style!"

This is my Touhou OC
[attach=1]
(this is her battle dress)

I want to put in her casual clothes but with a Chinese vibe
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on June 03, 2013, 11:22:44 pm
I will put this in a easy way: I want my character to be casual, but when you see her, you say "whoa! Chinese style!"
If you're looking for something modern-exotic, it's not really there, tbh.
Seriously, the only people who would wear anything like what I'm pretty sure you're asking for are old women 60+.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: fondue on July 01, 2013, 08:57:10 pm
Idc if I've asked this before but how do I draw hands and feet? I'm like 90% done with a Hatate drawing but the hands and feet issues are nearly making me pull my hair out.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Vento on July 02, 2013, 10:20:09 am
reference
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Freeze-Ex on July 03, 2013, 04:15:35 pm
reference
+ this
also try to do more observation and learn the structure of hand from the reference
remember reference are just to give you the idea to understand how things looks. (such as hand/clothing
try not to rely on it too much
but ofc if u rly need a reference, it's always good to have one |O///O>

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: fondue on July 03, 2013, 04:45:52 pm
reference
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on July 03, 2013, 05:51:58 pm
look at a hand

draw a hand
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on August 21, 2013, 11:55:14 pm
I've been tryin to make the sclera of some eyes I drew smooth like you see in a lot of animu art like you see here (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=511944), but regardless of me using tools with smooth settings the edges look pixelly, most noticeable in a high magnification view.  Here it is (http://puu.sh/47Exi.png), at 300% magnification.

So far, I've tried blurring the edges with the blur tool and a low-opacity eraser tool. Anyone know how to pull off them smooth edges? I use Sai, in case that matters any.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: SuperParadox on August 22, 2013, 02:33:20 am
Well of course if you zoom in 300% on a image its gonna show pixelation. If you're wondering why even when the tewi image is zoomed in the sclera still looks somewhat smooth its just because her skin tone is light and kinda blends into the white I guess is how I would explain it. (??)

Maybe this would help?
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=8944743

Personally I don't use any type of blur tool and instead use the brush to blend the colours, so I'd kinda recommend to stay away from it.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Zerviscos on August 22, 2013, 02:07:23 pm
I've been tryin to make the sclera of some eyes I drew smooth like you see in a lot of animu art like you see here (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=511944), but regardless of me using tools with smooth settings the edges look pixelly, most noticeable in a high magnification view.  Here it is (http://puu.sh/47Exi.png), at 300% magnification.

So far, I've tried blurring the edges with the blur tool and a low-opacity eraser tool. Anyone know how to pull off them smooth edges? I use Sai, in case that matters any.
Want a neat tip I've learned over the years of making everything smooth?
Draw and color on a larger canvas size, and then resize it to make it look smoother. Eg: Make something on a 3000 x 3000 pixel canvas, resize it into 1000 x 1000.
It'll look smoother and have better quality. This is simple trick used by many gfx artists.

Note: This does not apply to pixel art.

Oh and btw, it's pretty rare for people to use blur tool for eyes, usually they just use brushes.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on August 23, 2013, 08:23:20 pm
Thanks for the tips, guys; I'll try them on my next major CG.

As an aside, I use the blur tool because I dunno how to use brushes to smoothen quite as efficiently. Any tips on that, then? :P
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Nicole Artist on August 24, 2013, 09:07:02 pm
Having a really hard time drawing some hands
I think I did the right hand okay enough, but have absolutely no idea how to do the left. I kept looking at pictures of hands but their not quite right.
[attach=1]
I think you can see from the right hand what im trying to get, but at a different angle. Someone help?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Zerviscos on August 26, 2013, 04:38:44 pm
Having a really hard time drawing some hands
I think I did the right hand okay enough, but have absolutely no idea how to do the left. I kept looking at pictures of hands but their not quite right.
(Attachment Link)
I think you can see from the right hand what im trying to get, but at a different angle. Someone help?
Try to draw the fingers slightly going inward at the tip. It'll make a perspective of the tips being at the top, but also make it a lot rounder, and add lines separating finger joints.
I'm pretty busy atm, I'll draw an example as soon as I'm done, which is probably tomorrow.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Goomba98 on September 09, 2013, 06:40:52 pm
A lot of the links in the OP are broken.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on October 02, 2013, 06:02:21 am
Some useful notes on clothing folds... (http://solfieri.deviantart.com/art/Clothing-Folds-Tutorial-194453484)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: SuperParadox on October 03, 2013, 04:40:59 am
A lot of the links in the OP are broken.

That might of had to do with concept art going down for a bit and a lot of the links being from CA, but they should be working again now.
I'll check over the links this weekend anyway and remove/replace broken ones.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Alcoraiden on October 03, 2013, 06:04:33 pm
Apologies if someone has already brought it up, but I found the book "Human Anatomy Made Amazingly Easy" to be really good. It sounds silly, but it boils down all the complicated anatomy references to handy techniques that people may find easier to pick up than just staring at a life-drawing book. Of course, it's a starting point, but it's really good for teaching the bread-and-butter of proportion, posing, body part structure, etc.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on October 04, 2013, 04:19:18 am
Tutorial: Constructing forms in perspective (http://forums.sijun.com/viewtopic.php?p=272300)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Zork787 on November 02, 2013, 07:43:11 am
Ok so I want to start really attempting proper pictures that involve scenery instead of just a static figure like I'm used too, I've attempted such a picture before but the perspective was a complete mess see for yourself (http://sta.sh/09bj3iw6u4d), so I was wondering how you guys draw these kind of scenes or any kind of scene for that matter, do you draw the character first then the scenery/background or vice versa? It's an issue that's really bothering me and never really thought about much until now if I'm honest.

And in honesty now that I've actually thought about it, I think I've come to a realisation that if I had tried to sort out this issue of mine years ago, I'd prolly be a much better artist than I am now, it just never actually occurred to me until now and I'm kinda upset with myself that I didn't realise sooner :(
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on November 04, 2013, 07:09:40 pm
The perspective on that pic ain't that bad; if anything, the Patchouli figure should be altered to be as if seen from above, since the rest of the pic seems to be as if seen by a security camera on the ceiling.

In the case of pictures like what you showed there, I'd draw what the character is sitting on first, then the character, and then the rest of the scenery. Before all that, though, I decide the angle of the whole pic, so I get an idea of how I change the contours of all the content to match said perspective.

Oh, and drawing the edges of rectangular things? I just experiment by changing th angles of them over and over, asking myself just what angle I'm looking at it per try. My prototype of one of my pics had the sofa looking as if from above, when I just needed to angle only half the edges to make it seem as if from the 3/4 view.

I hope none of that is confusing; brevity isn't one of my strong suits :ohdear:

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on December 28, 2013, 07:10:47 am
Just wanna say this Illustrator tutorial (http://iradukai.com/making/558/index.html) is really cool!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on January 01, 2014, 06:47:34 pm
Been using this site (http://www.angelthesis.com/index.php/learn-to-draw/86-tutorials) as of late. The homeworks at the end of each tut give a sense of direction after the tut contents; maybe this'd help others here.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Arkeden on January 25, 2014, 02:20:24 pm
(http://th01.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2014/025/d/2/untitled_by_arkeden-d73n0jc.jpg?2)

How do I make this look female? (This hand supposed to belong to a thin female)

It feels too masculine.

,_,
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Yookie on January 25, 2014, 02:59:07 pm
If the thumb was a bit thinner where it connects to the hand and you could have the transition from hand to arm at the right side bend inwards before it goes to the wrist where the bone stands out.
I suppose then it would look more feminine.
But depending on the perspective (I'm assuming you're looking straight at it but it could also be a little bit from down/left) the thing with the wrist wouldn't work.
Other than that one would need to see the rest of the body to put the hand into proportion, since you cannot really judge the slimness of a clenched fist in comparison to the whole figure. (At least I can't. :V)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Arkeden on January 25, 2014, 03:09:17 pm
Other than that one would need to see the rest of the body to put the hand into proportion, since you cannot really judge the slimness of a clenched fist in comparison to the whole figure. (At least I can't. :V)

T_T

To be honest, I always overreact regarding my drawings look like male  as any girls I drew look like guys ._.

If the thumb was a bit thinner where it connects to the hand and you could have the transition from hand to arm at the right side bend inwards before it goes to the wrist where the bone stands out.
I suppose then it would look more feminine.

I'll try this. Thanks!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Yookie on January 25, 2014, 03:24:42 pm

To be honest, I always overreact regarding my drawings look like male  as any girls I drew look like guys ._.


I have a friend who practically only draws rather bulky male characters. So I gave her a small selection of Touhou characters from which she should draw one. The result was interesting. :P
(As a trade-off I had to draw Kazuya Mishima, which went equally well with me drawing only females. :V)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on February 02, 2014, 06:10:26 am
So, I've been practicing drawing figures at about ~6 heads tall. As I finished the sketches, and tried to measure with my eyes, it seemed I succeeded in getting the height I wanted.

Then I broke out the ruler, to confirm. Ruler told me I was off by a whole head. So, I tried drawing a 6-head tall figure according to the ruler's numbers, and when I gave it a once-over with my eyes, my eyes told me the figure was 8 heads tall.

Something seems really wrong here. Could someone explain why this happens?

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Arkeden on February 02, 2014, 01:12:52 pm
Hmmm... I can't call this concrete since I lack evidence but...there is 2 reasons.

One, it's hard to measure by eyes only.

Two, for me, this is what I would call as user preferences.
Every people have different preferences, adjusting their drawing subconsciously to fit their preferences.
And as they practiced on, they eventually nurtured it into their own original drawing style.
In short, your eyes is telling you your preferences for a drawing style.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kimidori on February 02, 2014, 03:19:22 pm
been self-learn by redraw naked female figure I found on the booru sites, is that a good way to learn drawing?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Yookie on February 02, 2014, 03:29:05 pm
It is a good way to learn the general things with proportions and such but you should move on to setting up the poses you want to draw by yourself as soon as you can.
The thing with redrawing is that you don't get a feel for how you actually draw but instead confine yourself to the style of a different person and that only takes you so far in improving.

I for example "learned" by teaching myself via a trial and error method where I just drew stuff, spotted what felt wrong to me, drew more, spotted other mistakes and so on. But this definitely takes a while.

What you should do imho is to draw what you are not good at once in a while. And don't be too harsh on yourself if it doesn't turn out the way you want it to.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Arkeden on February 02, 2014, 03:37:11 pm
been self-learn by redraw naked female figure I found on the booru sites, is that a good way to learn drawing?

Although I'm not a good artist I'll answer : )
Also, don't take my answer too seriously, I'm not a good artist. "OTL

Answer:
It depends really.

If you are just redrawing then you would not learn much.

I'm not a good explainer but  basically.
When you redraw stuff you need to imagine it's position in your head.
Burn the positions and proportions in your head.
When you draw, you need to feel that whatever you draw is accurate.
Long story short, when you redraw, try to remember it's posture. Then attempt to redraw it as your own original drawing.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: SuperParadox on February 02, 2014, 05:57:45 pm
So, I've been practicing drawing figures at about ~6 heads tall. As I finished the sketches, and tried to measure with my eyes, it seemed I succeeded in getting the height I wanted.

Then I broke out the ruler, to confirm. Ruler told me I was off by a whole head. So, I tried drawing a 6-head tall figure according to the ruler's numbers, and when I gave it a once-over with my eyes, my eyes told me the figure was 8 heads tall.

Something seems really wrong here. Could someone explain why this happens?

Could you post images to explain what you mean?

been self-learn by redraw naked female figure I found on the booru sites, is that a good way to learn drawing?

Well im assuming that these naked figures are live figures and if they are then yes its a good way to learn, but like Arkeden said when learning how to draw the figure and poses you also need to learn from it. Study and learn how the anatomy works and all that stuff, don't just draw it and move on to the next pose if that makes sense.

Also the method of drawing the pose, looking at what you did wrong and drawing the pose again works really well too.  Just as long as you're learning from those mistakes and not just drawing the same pose over and over again.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on February 02, 2014, 06:06:49 pm
And don't be too harsh on yourself if it doesn't turn out the way you want it to.
It's hard when most of your drawans look either like shit or like some form of Cthulhu. :/
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: DX7.EP on February 02, 2014, 06:41:08 pm
been self-learn by redraw naked female figure I found on the booru sites, is that a good way to learn drawing?
I'm inclined to disagree, and would instead suggest anatomy guides and figure drawing courses / sessions. It's more important to grasp fundamentals first before going for style.

It's hard when most of your drawans look either like shit or like some form of Cthulhu. :/
Eh, we all mess up along the way. Simply move on to the next one taking into account the earlier errors.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Zork787 on February 07, 2014, 11:48:00 pm
Hey, I was wondeirng what artist's, if any, do you guys look too for inspiration cos recently I've been thinking that perhaps one of the issue's I have is I don't have an artist I can look too for inspiration?

Also I don't know if I have an issue but even when I go to doodle, I just end up looking at my blank paper/canvas and my mind goes blank and it annoys me to no end :/
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Vyrien on February 08, 2014, 12:32:03 am
Also I don't know if I have an issue but even when I go to doodle, I just end up looking at my blank paper/canvas and my mind goes blank and it annoys me to no end :/

Classic art block. Take a breather, draw stuff you wouldn't normally, focus on backgrounds over characters etc etc.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on February 14, 2014, 10:14:13 pm
Could you post images to explain what you mean?

Sorry it took a while, but here. (http://puu.sh/6Wh3f.jpg) To my eyes, and the circles I drew, the figure is 6 heads tall. When I measured it with a ruler, the head was 4.5 centimeters against a 22-centimeter figure (not counting what space the feet would occupy). Doing the math, it turns out that the figure I drew was no more than 5 heads tall, perhaps just a tiny bit more had I drawn in the feet.

So yeah, huge conflict between what my eye sees and what things actually are.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on February 23, 2014, 05:54:12 am
Nice and brief hair tutorial. (http://starshipsorceress.deviantart.com/art/Hair-What-to-Do-vs-What-NOT-to-Do-435729624) Remember, good detailing isn't about how many strokes you have, it's how you use them!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kimidori on March 11, 2014, 12:03:24 pm
I decided to halt on practising drawing anatomy and human figure drawing to focus on the face until I could draw a decent anime face.

is there a good tutorial, tips to draw specifically anime face? the tips on the OP is about human face at general, which somewhat different from how faces and hair is draw in anime facially and anatomically.

and no, I'm practice art as an hobby, I want to draw anime because it is what I love and because I want to one day create something visually beautiful, so I wouldn't care less about not being able to draw anything but anime-style drawing.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: HakureiSM on March 11, 2014, 05:19:12 pm
Eeh, anime faces work the same as realistic faces, just... bigger
And with less nose

So I guess work from there
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on March 11, 2014, 06:21:51 pm
You can't really learn from an anime face tutorial because animu is so reliant on style.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on March 11, 2014, 06:23:23 pm
http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/12/16/anime-vs-real-life-a-picture-dump/
Look for differences.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kimidori on March 12, 2014, 09:29:59 am
Almost every art tutorial I have seen so far always draw the basic shapes before getting to detail, but watching some artist stream and drawing video on youtube, I noticed that most of them don't do that at all and get straight to draw the facial feature detail.

my question is: is basic shape drawing necessary at all? is it only good for learning artist to get the facial position and anatomy right?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Yookie on March 12, 2014, 10:04:03 am
It depends on where you want to put your focus. That is where you model the rest around.
You can go into detail right away if you know, that you will have enough space for everything (nothing worse than drawing a fine face only to end up at the edge of the paper somewhere leaving you with no choice but to start over :V) but I guess that is not an issue for digital drawing.
Basic shapes are mostly for getting the pose right and fitting the character into the rest of the motive. It is easier to fit the shape of the face around the features than the other way around.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on March 12, 2014, 05:00:43 pm
Some people can get away with no guidelines because they're familiar with the shapes and have been drawing for some time. If you've just started drawing, I would probably suggest heavier use of guidelines like the basic shapes in those tutorials.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: HakureiSM on March 13, 2014, 03:05:09 pm
Almost every art tutorial I have seen so far always draw the basic shapes before getting to detail, but watching some artist stream and drawing video on youtube, I noticed that most of them don't do that at all and get straight to draw the facial feature detail.
That's because they're good. They already got the basic down and memorized and won't forget ever, because before doing youtube videos they've drawn basic shit 200 shitbajifucktillion times. So the answer to your question is
Quote
my question is: is basic shape drawing necessary at all?
Yes. Completely. 150%.
That goes for anything, everyone knows I don't draw very well :V but everything takes effort and starts from the basic
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 13, 2014, 08:33:35 pm
Almost every art tutorial I have seen so far always draw the basic shapes before getting to detail, but watching some artist stream and drawing video on youtube, I noticed that most of them don't do that at all and get straight to draw the facial feature detail.

my question is: is basic shape drawing necessary at all? is it only good for learning artist to get the facial position and anatomy right?

"Most" is a little overbroad. I've been drawing for more than 10 years and I still draft out basic shapes, map out facial features on the head, every time I draw. What you have to understand about streams and drawing videos is that the artist is going to pick a pose that they're already very familiar with--because they know viewers don't want to see them fumble and redraw 20 times. So if you already know exactly what you intend to draw, if every feature is already committed to muscle memory, then you can get away with launching right into details, maybe. But for a new artist--indeed, for experienced artists working with an unfamiliar pose or perspective--the way that lines and details map onto three-dimensional forms is not going to come intuitively. Andrew Loomis explains the dangers of skipping over construction:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on March 13, 2014, 08:51:41 pm
How so? Reading that page, I just see Loomis explaining that children draw things like those little figures, and that adults that havent been practicing constantly since childhood will be unable to draw better than those little figures without proper instruction.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 13, 2014, 09:22:42 pm
The point is that the basic forms--the "essential" shapes that make up the body--are more important than the details. Figures 1 and 2 indicate form without detail; therefore, they show more promise than figure 5, which shows detail without form ("buttons and clothes with a face on them.") Incidentally, many beginning anime artists wind up drawing things like figure 5 above, because they want to draw a pair of eyes, a set of bangs floating in space, and line in the rest of the figure around those elements. It doesn't work that way. As this attachment shows, even very simple, highly stylized figures benefit from starting from basic forms.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: SuperParadox on March 13, 2014, 09:34:35 pm
Welp, I need to remind myself to update the OP later tonight.

I don't really have anything else to add on to drawing the basic shapes but yeah, don't skip out on them.


I decided to halt on practising drawing anatomy and human figure drawing to focus on the face until I could draw a decent anime face.

is there a good tutorial, tips to draw specifically anime face? the tips on the OP is about human face at general, which somewhat different from how faces and hair is draw in anime facially and anatomically.

and no, I'm practice art as an hobby, I want to draw anime because it is what I love and because I want to one day create something visually beautiful, so I wouldn't care less about not being able to draw anything but anime-style drawing.


Even if you just want to learn anime its always a good idea to learn proper human anatomy, especially if you want to become good at it. Once you learn how the human body works you'll find it 500% easier to draw in an anime style.  I don't think there are any proper how to draw anime faces tutorials out there but i'll look when I get the chance.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: HakureiSM on March 14, 2014, 02:25:16 am
Even if you just want to learn anime its always a good idea to learn proper human anatomy, especially if you want to become good at it.
Especially since anime styling is generally very reliant on consistent anatomy, even if its very caricatured. A good artist will always follow a strict set of anatomical rules they've developed from combining their experience with proper anatomy with their stylistic goal.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on March 14, 2014, 04:03:02 am
Explanations

I see, that makes sense. Thanks.

A good artist will always follow a strict set of anatomical rules they've developed from combining their experience with proper anatomy with their stylistic goal.

Well, not always; I happen to have a friend who when asked about it, pretty much said that she didn't really get as good at drawing people as she did from learning any theory. There's always the exception for these things :/
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on March 14, 2014, 04:11:21 am
Well, not always; I happen to have a friend who when asked about it, pretty much said that she didn't really get as good at drawing people as she did from learning any theory. There's always the exception for these things :/
...but is she good at drawing

Don't expect to be the exception.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on March 14, 2014, 04:39:42 am
She's very good, and I never said one should expect to be the exception. It's still right to say that beginner must start small with shapes and such, but that was just something I wanted to mention :P

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 14, 2014, 06:39:37 am
Just because she didn't study theory doesn't mean she doesn't use it: she could have had the talent to develop her forms from observation alone. If you asked her to draw a chair or a human hand or something else that isn't in her usual style, I bet you she would still draw it better than an average untrained person. That's theory at work.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: SuperParadox on March 14, 2014, 07:53:15 am
(Also im updating the master post so if theres anything that you guys are looking for its a good time to say what you might want more of :v)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on March 14, 2014, 03:30:02 pm
Just because she didn't study theory doesn't mean she doesn't use it: she could have had the talent to develop her forms from observation alone. If you asked her to draw a chair or a human hand or something else that isn't in her usual style, I bet you she would still draw it better than an average untrained person. That's theory at work.

You're probably right.

(Also im updating the master post so if theres anything that you guys are looking for its a good time to say what you might want more of :v)

I found this website (http://www.angelthesis.com) a while back which has tuts that come with exercises to apply them. How about more tuts and websites like that?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kimidori on March 15, 2014, 12:30:12 pm
ok, after some hours trying hard I think I got the basic neutral eye down, I could draw this (http://i.imgur.com/kdalVtd.jpg) somewhat consistently now.

here (http://i.imgur.com/px2DpYc.jpg?1) is my failed attempt at drawing the face, did not manage to draw the left eye quite right, and failed so miserably at hair that I erased it, any tips for anime hair?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on March 15, 2014, 04:10:34 pm
I would still recommend to grasp at least basic workings of an RL face.

BTW
hair 'tutorial' for a fren (http://puu.sh/3QOaD.jpg)
Here you go. :derp:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 15, 2014, 05:02:22 pm
The way you are trying to draw a face now, drawing and redrawing the same line, you're essentially attempting to copy a symbol you've picked up from watching anime and reading manga. That's not a useful approach. I suggest practicing the ball-and-cross technique. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BevsH0jOMA) While it's usually used for realistic drawing, I use the ball and cross for anime drawings as well (examples 1 (http://i.imgur.com/hoibLI3.jpg) 2 (http://i.imgur.com/jq8ZY0y.jpg) 3 (http://i.imgur.com/p0SgIKa.jpg) 4 (http://i.imgur.com/aP1XsbF.jpg).) It helps you quickly identify the general shape of the head (hence where to draw the hair,) the centerline, and the eyeline all at once. Furthermore, for most artists, drawing a simple ball and cross is much faster than drawing a full-on face. Therefore, rather than spending hours laboring over a simple jaw line (not productive,) you can fill up several pages with balls and crosses in different perspectives (productive.)

One final note regarding hair: as yofukashi shows us, hair is made up of a few discrete 'blocks.' Again fundamentals and theory are important in being able to place these blocks correctly.

(http://i.imgur.com/6RwhUE7.jpg)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kimidori on March 18, 2014, 11:22:46 pm
I was quite busy the last 2 days to practice anything, anyway, having a entire afternoon free today so I decided to practice the face a bit, my attempts:

I still tried to draw without using circle and cross and got  this (http://i.imgur.com/yFydqJu.jpg), for some reason, I kind of "panicked" after I draw the 3 main front chunks and draw the outer hair chunk randomly  :V, I also think that the face is a little too narrow, so in my second attempt here (http://i.imgur.com/Wpp3Tjr.jpg?1), I tried to draw the face a little wider also, experiment with another iris style and tried to control the hair drawing a little. first attempt with ball and cross (http://i.imgur.com/M2JNTlT.jpg?1) did not go very well, the second (http://i.imgur.com/7UYlnML.jpg?1) attempt seemed to have gone better though, experiment with hair style, still having trouble with the outer hair chunk though.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Quad City QBs on March 19, 2014, 07:38:49 am
Have you tried drawing faces facing different directions? This is one of the chief advantages of the ball-and-cross setup -- it lets you plot the main volume occupied by the head, map out the main features, in any perspective. After you do a page or 20 like this (http://i.imgur.com/nh1KuDF.jpg) (as you can probably tell, a fairly early attempt on my part), you should start to get really comfortable with laying down the ball and cross facing any which way you please.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kimidori on March 20, 2014, 12:23:03 pm
hhmm, now I find myself having more control of the face shape and drawing better face proportion when drawing without ball and cross, but only cross, drawing with ball and cross most of the time result a face that is either too long, or too narrow.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kimidori on March 22, 2014, 04:39:35 pm
I think I have made a good progress with hair drawing today with this (http://i.imgur.com/gxYCl5h.jpg?1)

any suggestions on it?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on March 22, 2014, 05:47:08 pm
Draw the same head from the side.
Then - from below.
Good luck! (http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4902/110955323.e/0_c097e_8d7fd559_orig)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on April 06, 2014, 12:05:36 am
So, I've heard that a good way to soften digital shading is to lightly use the airbrush over it. Quite a few artists on here do it, but could someone explain to me how it's supposed to be done? When I do it, it doesn't soften at all :/ When I do it, it deepens the color instead of softening it.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on April 06, 2014, 05:34:19 am
Use a big, soft brush.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on April 12, 2014, 11:29:53 pm
Wouldn't that leave a mess, though? I don't see that happen in the streams I've watched, nor do I see the artists use such huge brushes.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on April 13, 2014, 02:36:58 am
(http://puu.sh/86oMG.png)

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Freeze-Ex on April 13, 2014, 11:04:06 am
Wouldn't that leave a mess, though? I don't see that happen in the streams I've watched, nor do I see the artists use such huge brushes.

Use a masking layer for area u wanna soft brush so it doesnt leave a mess
there are lots of other way to soften the shading
come in to my stream someday and i will show it mostly will be Fri,Sat
But I will be in Sakura con next week ....so a week after?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on April 13, 2014, 06:16:05 pm
Will do, should I find the time. Thanks.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on April 21, 2014, 11:18:59 pm
So hands are notoriously hard to draw, but well drawn ones are darn right frickin' sexy. Which is why I offer the following advice: develop a semi- hand fetish.
Well how do I do that? One needs only look upon the work of the master anime hand animator Takahiro Kagami. Allow me to supply you with some ammo:
Videos: 1 (http://nicotter.net/watch/sm1141713) 2 (http://nicotter.net/watch/sm669316) 3 (http://nicotter.net/watch/sm1323477) 4 (http://nicotter.net/watch/sm1265886) 5 (http://nicotter.net/watch/sm1062793)
Just one shot short of 6 rounds, I suppose.

Anyway, fooling around aside, it really is easy to just skimp on the hands and hide it behind something or whatever. You try to avoid things you know you're bad at or don't like because of the difficulty. To overcome this, you need either will or a massive like for the subject. When you start liking something, that's all you draw. So get a hand fetish; remove all fears.

(also note how the guy actually draws each character's hands differently according to their personalities. And you thought drawing more than half a dozen different faces was hard.)

If I get a bit better I may or may not post up some actually useful tips.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on April 23, 2014, 02:49:48 am
My apologies if this is the wrong area to for this but can I ask a question about something digital related?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Vyrien on April 23, 2014, 05:26:21 am
My apologies if this is the wrong area to for this but can I ask a question about something digital related?

My understanding is; as long as it's about art, you're in the correct place. Go ahead.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on April 23, 2014, 11:12:02 am
I'm trying to come up with a Banner of sorts using Kanji, but I'm not very sure on how to go about either making the Kanji not look plain or if there is a stylized font I can use. Any tips?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on April 23, 2014, 10:51:18 pm
Edit: Nvm, figured out the solution. ^^;
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: HakureiSM on April 24, 2014, 02:51:45 am
I'm trying to come up with a Banner of sorts using Kanji, but I'm not very sure on how to go about either making the Kanji not look plain or if there is a stylized font I can use. Any tips?
You could probably look around for real banners (https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1360&bih=703&q=japanese+banners&oq=japanese+banners&gs_l=img.3...2442.4004.0.4083.16.7.0.8.0.2.311.1139.2j3j1j1.7.0....0...1ac.1.42.img..12.4.624.m-hRiejmQZM) or other stuff with Japanese writing on it until you find one that gives you inspiration.
I know dickall about oriental fonts, though
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on April 25, 2014, 04:24:22 am
How not to feel bad when seeing that what you're drawing is shit? That's not motivating at all. :/
And by "how not to" I mean "any other way besides 'just come and don't'", if there exists any.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: pasu on April 25, 2014, 05:22:44 am
How not to feel bad when seeing that what you're drawing is shit? That's not motivating at all. :/
And by "how not to" I mean "any other way besides 'just come and don't'", if there exists any.

You go off and cry and whine about an artblock


Then go and find something that you really want to draw instead of forcing yourself to
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on April 25, 2014, 06:13:09 am
How not to feel bad when seeing that what you're drawing is shit? That's not motivating at all. :/
And by "how not to" I mean "any other way besides 'just come and don't'", if there exists any.
pasu mentioned something about art block, which reminds me of this:
Quote
“Writer’s block is a gift from God.” — OSC

Writer’s block is not when you look at the words and they seem stupid.

It’s not a disease, it’s a blessing. Either you just wrote or are about to write something you just don’t believe in. Go back and start asking yourself what else could happen. Find something you believe in.

You don’t write your way out; you invent your way out. You end up with more story.
Writer's block, artist's block, same difference. (Thank you, Orson Scott Card, I love your books)
I absolutely hate art block, it sucks. It's like I'm trapped in this mucky pit of holy-crap-I-can't-draw-for-shit. But you invent your way out. Innovate, try new styles and make your own. Looking back, it's times like these when I draw the most, improve the most, and change the most.
I used this article in an essay I had to write last quarter, I found it very interesting and helpful. (http://99u.com/articles/7188/why-boredom-is-good-for-your-creativity)

I totally understand what you mean though. Like a while ago, I was drawing something from touhou and was using Google Images as a reference, and whenever I would flip back to SAI I would feel a wave of discouragement from how crap my drawing looked.
My general routine is to keep making tons (pages) of different sketches of that-one-thing that I'm feeling art-blocky about, and just keep changing things up, looking up inspiration, then changing things up again over and over and over again until I finally stumble upon something that feels the most right out of what I've been doing. Then I start doing variations of that change over and over, such as drawing different characters in that new style.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on April 26, 2014, 08:12:01 pm
How not to feel bad when seeing that what you're drawing is shit? That's not motivating at all. :/
And by "how not to" I mean "any other way besides 'just come and don't'", if there exists any.

You could try to get together with others who're looking to improve their skills; as you go about your stuff with the group (sharing results amongst yourselves, arranging get-togethers, etc), your skills will improve, and eventually you'll stop seeing your works as shit.

Hope it helps!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on April 26, 2014, 10:55:56 pm
Well I fixed my own problem, I played around with Gimp and pasted the Kanji I need and sure enough with my default font pasted it in Kanji. That actually went well for something I never thought would work, so sorry for troubling everyone.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on April 26, 2014, 11:45:15 pm
Delfi, I personally don't see your situation as a necessarily bad thing. If you can see problems in your drawings, you know what to improve on - honestly a lot more constructive than when people finish a drawing and think themselves great.

I can't say my words hold much weight considering I'm not a queen of Art Atelier or anything, but instead of focusing on getting motivated, why not just focus on being disciplined? Willpower trumps emotional energy - otherwise, there wouldn't be all those people who get excited about going for some new project or learning something new, only to give up a few weeks later. But a person who knows how to just power through when it's not rewarding seems to be the person who actually ends up getting rewarded.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on April 27, 2014, 10:50:25 pm
But I won't improve if I don't draw. :fail:

Tidal, well, I sorta have a thread for this kind of things and sometimes even post something there, stuff that doesn't look too hopeless (or wasn't intended to be good from the very beginning, which is usually just :colonveeplusalpha:).
Seems there's no way besides "just sit and draw" after all. Gonna get some chocolates then, I guess, and continue to attempt to draw classmates from photos more often that 0.5 tries/month. ._.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kitten4u on April 28, 2014, 12:39:39 am
I went through something similar a few months ago, so I suppose I can offer my two cents.  Eventually there will be something you really want to draw and it'll make you feel better, but until then drawing is really going to suck.  There are two things I found effective at keeping me drawing while everything sucked.

1.) Pick one technical aspect that you want to work on (for me it was facial anatomy and expressions) and do it repeatedly.  A good time to work on those technical aspects is when you're not feeling inspired because then you can focus on all the boring parts then and focus on the more fun parts when you're feeling it.

2.) Do something you just find relaxing (for me it was coloring other peoples' lineart).  This could be scribbling nonsense if there's no relaxing part of art for you yet.  It's just a good way to wind down and relax and will still keep you drawing *something*

But yes, in the end it's difficult to get over if you stop drawing completely.  Keep at it though, I'm sure the thing you really want to draw will come to you.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on April 28, 2014, 06:13:47 pm
Delfi, an art topic is a start, but further collaborating (like making a group) would be more effective.

Also, I never said to stop drawing.

2.) Do something you just find relaxing (for me it was coloring other peoples' lineart).  This could be scribbling nonsense if there's no relaxing part of art for you yet.  It's just a good way to wind down and relax and will still keep you drawing *something*

But yes, in the end it's difficult to get over if you stop drawing completely.  Keep at it though, I'm sure the thing you really want to draw will come to you.

Also, this.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: NanoSatellite on May 04, 2014, 12:40:49 pm
But I won't improve if I don't draw. :fail:

Tidal, well, I sorta have a thread for this kind of things and sometimes even post something there, stuff that doesn't look too hopeless (or wasn't intended to be good from the very beginning, which is usually just :colonveeplusalpha:).
Seems there's no way besides "just sit and draw" after all. Gonna get some chocolates then, I guess, and continue to attempt to draw classmates from photos more often that 0.5 tries/month. ._.

Forming a group might be a fun idea.  Drawing has been a lonely experience for me so far.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on May 07, 2014, 11:26:47 am
I'm trying to come up with a Banner of sorts using Kanji, but I'm not very sure on how to go about either making the Kanji not look plain or if there is a stylized font I can use. Any tips?
Luckily for you, I recently had to do a bit of searching myself for one of my classes. Here (http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Japanese.html) is a pretty useful list of some Japanese font (naturally, this includes kanji), simply install them after downloading.
If you need more, just search around google for japanese kanji font. Considering that there's like a million kanji, I don't expect there to be too many options like English has.

Edit: If you want to narrow your search, I found another site here (http://www.mojigarden.com/translation/words/gallery.html) which has the names of some Japanese fonts. There's a nice kanji preview of the fonts too.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on May 09, 2014, 05:36:40 am
So, I've been progressing through Loomis' Figure Drawing For all It's Worth, and I'm near the point where I have to work from this page (http://puu.sh/8F2F1.png). Problem is, that it has quite a bit of skeleton foreshortening that I wasn't taught in any parts prior to that page, or anywhere else for that matter.

What am I supposed to do, there?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on May 09, 2014, 11:12:00 am
Since you don't know foreshortening  maybe you can still work on this kind of expression exercise by training expressing emotions using the character's silhouette. For example you can shrug your shoulders to show lack of interest, raise your hands to show doubt about something or bend inside your knees to show weakness. Try to note how these skeletons show a feeling of tragedy or struggle while you analyze their silhouette.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Freeze-Ex on May 09, 2014, 12:12:18 pm
So, I've been progressing through Loomis' Figure Drawing For all It's Worth, and I'm near the point where I have to work from this page (http://puu.sh/8F2F1.png). Problem is, that it has quite a bit of skeleton foreshortening that I wasn't taught in any parts prior to that page, or anywhere else for that matter.

What am I supposed to do, there?

hmmm if you want to only want improve your foreshortening skill
those drawing might not suit ur need since u are new to foreshortening
gesture drawing requires imagination of overlapping shapes and muscles
try to start with a simple mechanic
u can try observational drawing from a actual box
close carefully how the edge and the corner changes in shapes as you slowly rotate them
once you got the idea try to draw them out
but if you just want to do normal anatomy drawing then ignore watever i said and look for some model image on google XD

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: NanoSatellite on May 10, 2014, 09:30:46 am
So, I've been progressing through Loomis' Figure Drawing For all It's Worth, and I'm near the point where I have to work from this page (http://puu.sh/8F2F1.png). Problem is, that it has quite a bit of skeleton foreshortening that I wasn't taught in any parts prior to that page, or anywhere else for that matter.

What am I supposed to do, there?

Feel free to disregard my advice to those who are more experienced here.  I drew this up pretty quickly, but follow the 3 intersections of the cylinder. http://i.imgur.com/uuGA0F7.png the first image each one is the same height.  the 2nd part is to show it is a circle (cylinder).  Then the third part is to show what happens to the 3 circles in the first image when rotating the cylinder into a perspective.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on May 11, 2014, 03:14:52 pm
Forgot to mention, but I do know basic foreshortening in terms of some shapes, but it's just applying it to figures and skeletons that confuses me. Hence my question.

@Kaze_Senshi: Can you show me some examples of that exercise being done? I don't quite get what you mean :/

@Freeze-Ex: I'll see what I can do with that. Thanks.

@NanoSatellite: I see what you mean.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on May 22, 2014, 04:26:13 pm
I've been trying to figure out how to draw the head tilted upwards as seen from the front, but i don't get how the jaw shape changes. I understand that features like the eyes, ears, and hairline are placed differently in relation to each other, but when I try to draw the jaw, I get something like this (http://puu.sh/8WEOv.jpg).

So, how does it work?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on May 28, 2014, 01:48:29 am
Any good tips on how to begin on making your own sprites? I'm working on a project and I feel bad for using others work and would prefer to use what I make. If it would help it's gonna have Touhou characters so any tips on how to convert them easily over to custom sprites would be very helpful.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on May 28, 2014, 10:55:57 am
Any good tips on how to begin on making your own sprites? I'm working on a project and I feel bad for using others work and would prefer to use what I make. If it would help it's gonna have Touhou characters so any tips on how to convert them easily over to custom sprites would be very helpful.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'convert them easily over to custom sprites'. If it's custom, I'm assuming you're either creating your own or modifying existing ones. Either way you would need an application, and two stand out:

Graphics Gale (http://www.humanbalance.net/gale/us/)
Technically you there is a full version for $27, but I think the only useful feature the full version has that the free version doesn't is an export-as-gif feature. If you need gifs, you can always create them with other applications with the individually exported sprites, so this isn't a big deal. It looks and feels rather archaic, but it should fit the needs of any pixel artist/animator. I believe it's also the most used among spriters. It has a real-time animation preview window.

Aseprite (http://www.aseprite.org/)
I haven't used this one as much as Graphics Gale, but it certainly looks nicer. This alone makes me want to test it out more, but I haven't fiddled with it much. It's also completely free. It doesn't feature gif exports as well, but again this shouldn't be a problem. From the little that I've played with it, it seems a bit harder to actually create and edit animations (as in frame by frame stuff, as the animation editor isn't just a separate window. It also doesn't have a real-time animation preview like GG does). I believe this is popular alternative to people who are put off by Graphics Gale's archaic-ness.

If you want tutorials and tips, then this guide (http://gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/sywtbapa_almighty_grass_tile.php) has tons of useful information. The other guides on that site are very helpful as well.

If this is your very first attempt at sprite making, then I suggest just opening up MS Paint and playing around with the pencil tool just to get a feel for pixel drawing.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on June 04, 2014, 01:32:49 am
I've been reading the sites tutorials but I'm still just stuck on where to start. I need to make RPG sprites for over world stuff and then character portraits and then battle portraits. I've been looking at ones I have from other sheets but no idea where to start.

Also on another note I've been working on a UI for a fan game. It's pretty easy until I ended up at this (http://i59.tinypic.com/zkpa9v.png). The issue I have is since I like to stay authentic like this (Since it's tiny pic I'll add a NSFW here, odd results in the bottom) (http://i57.tinypic.com/zv4t29.png), looking into the background of the second one the gradient goes one direction, sadly for the first one the gradient has two start points and goes into the center and I have no idea how to get it to look like that. I'd like to get this project finished this year since it's been so long since I started.

Also know any good image hosting sites?  I use to use Imageshack but now I can't use it for free anymore.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on June 04, 2014, 04:22:05 am
I remember Puush, Imgur and Dropbox being recommended in GA thread.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: HakureiSM on June 04, 2014, 05:11:54 pm
Yup, please don't use tinypic. It just plain doesn't work in some countries.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Vyrien on June 04, 2014, 11:27:48 pm
Voting puush here.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on June 05, 2014, 02:39:07 am
OK, well should I re upload my images? Or am I out of luck here?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on June 05, 2014, 02:50:25 am
try puush
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on June 05, 2014, 03:10:21 am
OK so like I said above, this (http://puu.sh/9fDU9/3462e6b9b8.png) I need to change over to English, I have the text ready but the Issue is the gradient background.

The first one I did, this (http://puu.sh/9fE3C/fc7f47b6dd.png), is simple in that the gradient goes one direction, however the first one starts in two different spots and I can't get a good copy of the background to use. Any tips? I have tried to make my own but it looks no where similar.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Daiyuyuko on June 08, 2014, 12:44:22 am
I've been trying to figure out how to draw the head tilted upwards as seen from the front, but i don't get how the jaw shape changes. I understand that features like the eyes, ears, and hairline are placed differently in relation to each other, but when I try to draw the jaw, I get something like this (http://puu.sh/8WEOv.jpg).

So, how does it work?

I think that photo references are the best thing possible to know what something looks like. This might have been said over and over again by many people, but you could have someone take a photo of your head tilted, or taking one yourself, and see what that looks like. Using yourself as a possible reference is the easiest source to go to. xD

You could go to Google Images and search up "head angle references", see if anything suits your needs. :) Studying perspective/angle will help this a lot.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on June 16, 2014, 10:42:11 pm
I'll try that. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on June 29, 2014, 10:49:32 pm
Well I decided to throw together a quick and easy avatar for now till I can figure out what to do but I think I just don't have enough knowledge to know how to make my sigs and avys unique enough.

So for starters any tips on how to make <---- That not look so plain and not just full of simple layers with layer effects. If possible could you explain how to do the process? I'm not very well versed in a lot of the workings on techniques, and I also use Gimp so that's also something I have to face with.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on June 30, 2014, 04:46:24 pm
So, how does one go about quickening the speed in which they make artwork?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Yookie on June 30, 2014, 07:52:47 pm
Experience.
The more you draw the more stable you get with it. After drawing the same pose for the fiftieth time you know what you're doing and it just flows.
Speed is something that just comes with time, nothing you focus on acquiring.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on July 01, 2014, 10:20:05 pm
Is it safe to assume this thread is just for artists? Because I've asked 2 or 3 questions that yet had been answered. Where should I go for digital art questions?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on July 01, 2014, 10:29:44 pm
honestly, i think it would look better without the effects
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on July 05, 2014, 07:28:22 am
I'm sure that while any questions are acceptable, I don't think many people have much experience with digital editing here
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on July 05, 2014, 08:16:24 am
You can also try yourself at necromancy. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13420.0.html)
And if he won't receive an e-mail about a reply in his topic, you can send a PM, which he would almost certainly notice.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on July 12, 2014, 02:45:15 pm
Experience.
The more you draw the more stable you get with it. After drawing the same pose for the fiftieth time you know what you're doing and it just flows.
Speed is something that just comes with time, nothing you focus on acquiring.

Understood.


Also, I've been having a hard time learning to draw books, despite having many around me to study. However much I study, I don't understand how to foreshorten the flaps relative to the spine from whatever angle I'd like. I even tore off the pages of a book to study it, and I'm still stumped.

What should I do?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on August 13, 2014, 04:53:13 pm
In terms of contour drawing, I've been advised to move my eyes slowly across the contour of the object I'm drawing. Thing is, that even in everyday use, my eyes never move slowly; the focus point of my vision just darts from place to place, not in any slow movement like the advice suggests.

What am I supposed to do about that?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on August 28, 2014, 03:00:26 am
Well I'm getting to the point where GIMP is falling behind on what I need to do so I've been thinking of getting photoshop (thank god for monthly plans... are they till it's paid off for forever?) so I was wondering what version of photoshop I should go with? I look on the main website and it looks like they have a Photoshop CC but is that the same as say CS2 is? It's been years since I used it... like Photoshop 7, so I'm a bit confused.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on August 29, 2014, 08:51:32 am
Before you go buy Photoshop, first try out Krita (https://krita.org/). I've tried it and thought that it was pretty packed with features and tools. Interface and brushes are especially nice. I don't use it because it's a bit heavy on my crappy laptop, but it's free so definitely check it out.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: DX7.EP on August 30, 2014, 12:36:44 am
Well I'm getting to the point where GIMP is falling behind on what I need to do so I've been thinking of getting photoshop (thank god for monthly plans... are they till it's paid off for forever?) so I was wondering what version of photoshop I should go with? I look on the main website and it looks like they have a Photoshop CC but is that the same as say CS2 is? It's been years since I used it... like Photoshop 7, so I'm a bit confused.
Adobe CC is a subscription model. You pay indefinitely to keep using the product(s) - and whle it is cheaper than buying retail, it essentially ties you to Adobe's services (and if Adobe authenticaiton servers are down, well, forget being able to use the program!).

Before you go buy Photoshop, first try out Krita (https://krita.org/). I've tried it and thought that it was pretty packed with features and tools. Interface and brushes are especially nice. I don't use it because it's a bit heavy on my crappy laptop, but it's free so definitely check it out.
Haven't tried that program yet (Sketchbook Pro user here, and I tend to do more traditional sketching), but the FLOSS and cross-platform nature of this may make it a good go-to recommendation for any digital illustrators.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on August 30, 2014, 01:02:30 am
Well not gonna get CC then lol. Trying out Krita right now, feels familiar but does lag my PC a bit, comes with some interesting brushes.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on August 30, 2014, 11:26:44 am
I'll also mention that the developers are actively working on it, so I make it a point to periodically check for updates. See if they fixed or added stuff.
There were a few instances in the past where I drew most of a pic in SAI and then imported the file into Krita for filters, effects and what not.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on August 30, 2014, 11:14:17 pm
A question on drawing pads, what should I look for when choosing one? Just looking for one that's decent for a beginner and can work with a lot of programs. I know next to none so not sure of some only work with Photoshop or more.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on August 30, 2014, 11:22:11 pm
Drawing pads as in tablets? Try Monoprice.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on August 30, 2014, 11:30:06 pm
You can't go wrong with Wacom products. They're kind of the Adobe of graphic tablets. Meaning they're a bit pricey as well. The cheapest option is currently the Intuos for $80. Or you could search online for some of their older products.
I've heard good things about Monoprice, but I've never tried them so I can't say. They're also a bit cheaper, so take that into consideration.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on August 31, 2014, 12:49:59 am
I've tried Monoprice and low-end Wacom. Monoprice is really, really good. I'd totally recommend it for anyone who's not drawing for a profession, though you should note that it's desperately lacking in tech support and may have compatibility issues - nothing you can't work around, and the price does make up for it, but it can still be a hassle.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on August 31, 2014, 01:25:23 am
I'll look into them thank you, I don't plan to do it for a profession yet but I need to start working on getting better for the future.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on September 28, 2014, 07:02:24 pm
How do I access Krita's eraser tool? On my comp, it doesn't seem to have one (http://puu.sh/bRzYB/e547287ef4.jpg) (I'm on Windows, if that helps any).

E: nvm figured it out.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on October 08, 2014, 03:55:14 am
So even though I posted this in the artwork topic I'm still looking for feedback on my spritesheet for Reimu. Any form of tips is great but what I am hoping for is if when you first see the sprite that you do in fact see it as Reimu when you first look at it. That was my goal however so it would be great if it did turn out like that. This was a customized sprite done in Game Character Hub.

(http://puu.sh/c0JXD/95a67a1443.png)


EDIT: Oh also my avatar I'd like to be evaluated please! I'm not 100% sure how to go about it really, it's what I had in my head before I made it but not sure if the outlines are really good on Eiki but it was to help her not blend in with the scales of justice in the background. Speaking of the scales, is it not large enough? I felt it really fit with her and it made making it black and white simple but not sure if I should try to have it stand out more or since Eiki is the main focus that it should be made smaller or stay the same. The border seems a bit jagged and not sure how to fix that, but should I even add something to it for a actual border? So many questions, sorry!  :wikipedia:
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on October 09, 2014, 12:14:09 pm
I did a bit of experimenting, and I just discovered a neat little trick in Sai in regards to filling things with base colors. You have all the lineart in one layer, the base color layer(s) under it, and when you select the areas in the lineart you want to fill, you then go to Selection->Increment. That makes expands the selection area so that when you fill in the color, you won't have any of that white pixel garbage.

Hope this helps someone!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Ragathol on November 02, 2014, 11:28:22 pm

EDIT: Oh also my avatar I'd like to be evaluated please! I'm not 100% sure how to go about it really, it's what I had in my head before I made it but not sure if the outlines are really good on Eiki but it was to help her not blend in with the scales of justice in the background. Speaking of the scales, is it not large enough? I felt it really fit with her and it made making it black and white simple but not sure if I should try to have it stand out more or since Eiki is the main focus that it should be made smaller or stay the same. The border seems a bit jagged and not sure how to fix that, but should I even add something to it for a actual border? So many questions, sorry!  :wikipedia:

Try doing a 1-2px black outline on the white (character) side, and white on the other. The gray makes it look a bit fuzzy.

I did a bit of experimenting, and I just discovered a neat little trick in Sai in regards to filling things with base colors. You have all the lineart in one layer, the base color layer(s) under it, and when you select the areas in the lineart you want to fill, you then go to Selection->Increment. That makes expands the selection area so that when you fill in the color, you won't have any of that white pixel garbage.

Alt-s + 1 as a shortcut. For larger resolutions, you'll want to do it 2-3 times to get under the lines properly. Thin areas might not be selected properly though, so always do a manual checkup afterwards.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on November 14, 2014, 03:14:12 am
Hello all! I'm in need of some advice and help if possible. I'm looking to actually start drawing in general but hope to get to the point where I can make my own portraits for my projects. How should I begin to start? On paper or through things like photoshop? I do not have a tablet so how would someone like me get my stuff online or is it even possible to get high quality works without one?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: DX7.EP on November 14, 2014, 04:29:37 am
I'd start with traditional paper and pencil first, for the basics learned there will help a lot in the long run - and it also lessens over-dependence on software-based "crutches" IMO (such as stylus steady stroke, Ctrl/Cmd-Z, etc.) That doesn't entirely mean that one should entirely forgo digital work, though, even at an entry level.

For getting things online, consider getting a scanner.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Zerviscos on November 14, 2014, 06:59:50 am
Hello all! I'm in need of some advice and help if possible. I'm looking to actually start drawing in general but hope to get to the point where I can make my own portraits for my projects. How should I begin to start? On paper or through things like photoshop? I do not have a tablet so how would someone like me get my stuff online or is it even possible to get high quality works without one?
1.) Draw with pencil and paper; 2.) Scan it; 3.) If you think you want to enhance it(like adding colors, etc), use either Sai(I prefer this) or Photoshop; 4.) Upload; 5.) Profit

You don't necessarily need a tablet. But TBH having one does take off some workload if you're really looking for quality work.
Some people manually use a mouse, but that'll take heaps of time, still people get thru it(It's how I started).

But I'd recommend you start by drawing manually first with pencil and paper. If you're looking for enhancing quality in digital software, I'd recommend you atleast start knowing the basic gist of what you're gonna be using and use it for other stuff like Photo Manipulation, Sig making, etc, instead of just focusing for drawings, since you'll get there eventually. Vectors are usually the easiest way to do it.

But if there's one thing I still use if I'm too lazy to actually draw something digitally. I'll just 1.) scan a manual drawing; 2.) use Photoshop; 3.) use Burn Tool set on: normal 0 hardness circular brush, Range: Midtones, Exposure: 100%; 4.) Use it on the drawing to increase contrast; 5.) Use Dodge Tool with same settings; 6.) Use it on the lighter parts of the scanned drawing(the blank white part of where you didn't draw and have no intention to), to lighten that part(since scanned pictures/drawing has those dark edges, or parts which is identifiable that it is, a scanned picture); 7.) Make new Layer; 8.) Start coloring with preferred basic colors with any brush you want on any settings you prefer; 9.) Set the layer to preferred Blending Option(mine is usually Multiply or Color Burn); 10.) Continue until you get desired colors on desired spots.

It'll probably look something like this.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/365/2/5/charles_barkley_vs__rainbow_dash_by_dignifiedjustice-d4kub5j.png)
Take Note: This isn't mine. It's from my friend. And no, I'm not a Brony.

I don't use this often this often, and he was actually the one who told me this. The reason why he does this isn't the same as mine. He really doesn't have a tablet.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on November 14, 2014, 07:12:51 am
if you've got $50 to shell out
 (http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=113&cp_id=11303&cs_id=1084101)

Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on November 14, 2014, 08:23:36 am
If you're looking to draw draw, then I would suggest these free guides by Andrew Loomis (http://illustrationage.com/2013/04/02/free-andrew-loomis-art-instruction-downloads/).
Specifically, I recommend starting with Fun with a Pencil since it's pretty fun and humorous and gets you excited, up and going

And yeah, I agree with the others that traditional pen/paper will be the best place to start. I feel you would be able to develop good skills and habits more easily with the direct, tactile hand-eye-paper-color response. Also carry around a sketchbook and put everything that pops up into your head down into it so you can get it out of there and make room for more stuff. Just generate ideas everyday and put them down. I should mention that sketchbooks are not supposed to be perfect, so experiment a lot. If you find yourself being very hesitant about doing something new, try switching over to a pen and develop a free-er, guiltless way of drawing.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on November 16, 2014, 06:39:57 am
OK picked up a sketchbook today along with some colored pencils, kinda nervous to even get started but as you say the sketchbook is for experimenting. I kinda wanted to by some colored crafting paper and make some paper versions of Touhou character out of cut shapes, maybe next paycheck lol.

For a pencil would any just do for the sketchbook or should I get a certain kind?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on November 16, 2014, 07:07:37 am
There are a million+ ways to leave your mark on a canvas, choose the one that you feel the most comfortable with or one you're interested in.
Just remember, the more you spend time fretting over what stuff to buy to get started, the more money and time you waste.
Also, try to make an effort to finish things. If one avoids the full extent of their inadequacies due to fear, they will never be able to appreciate the full qualities of their inadequacies. And perhaps even areas that are unexpectedly unique.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Zerviscos on November 16, 2014, 07:18:44 am
OK picked up a sketchbook today along with some colored pencils, kinda nervous to even get started but as you say the sketchbook is for experimenting. I kinda wanted to by some colored crafting paper and make some paper versions of Touhou character out of cut shapes, maybe next paycheck lol.

For a pencil would any just do for the sketchbook or should I get a certain kind?
Protip: Focus on what you can do now, and sweat with the small stuff later.

Basically, draw first if you're really willing, and make those papercrafts after.

Edit: for pencils. It'll be fine for you to start with an ordinary #2 or HB Pencil, or practically any pencil you're comfortable with. I usually use #1 when I rough sketch.
Eventually you'll find yourself knowing what pencils to use. Charcoal Pencil is always good for some rough sketches and when you want to go monochrome.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on November 24, 2014, 12:54:28 am
Drew some monster girls. (http://tidalespeon.deviantart.com/art/DAversity-Assignment-10-496242771) (nsfw)

Only really satisfied with the penguin girl, myself. Opinions?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on November 24, 2014, 01:18:12 am
First thing, I'm really no expert and have difficulty drawing anything in general so take what I say with a grain of salt. Second, I'm in no way trying to be mean, I tell it how I see it.

OK, first thing I noticed was how very human they  look compared to their animal counter part. Now this doesn't matter so much as its also based on veiwer and artists tastes on the level of Animalization (not even sure if that's a word.) I've seen them be very humal like to barely human so my taste is somewhere in the middle for me.

Second thing I noticed was they do look a bit chubby, but again that's on the viewer side, I personally don't see many monster girls that are not skinny so that's just my lack of experience. But I think the frog one looks fine, frogs do look like that anyway.

Lastly the dog-girls breasts go a bit flat once they reach the outer chest and look a bit like man muscles. Maybe just round them out more near the outer part.

Sorry if I said anything offensive or made you mad, that isn't my intent.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Zerviscos on November 24, 2014, 08:27:35 am
Drew some monster girls. (http://tidalespeon.deviantart.com/art/DAversity-Assignment-10-496242771) (nsfw)

Only really satisfied with the penguin girl, myself. Opinions?
Chihuhua monster girl should be a loli IMO. :derp:

Frog monster girl lacks a bit more amphibian traits. Idk what, but that certainly doesn't stand out much to being a frog girl.

Penguin monster girl...Is that a faerie?

They more look like just animal girls that actual monster girls to me. My definition of monster girls is the usage of different animals combined together, to a girl. Basically a chimera girl.
Or a use of a mythological creature to a girl. Like Puzzle and Dragons Monster Girls. :derp:

Ofc that's just me.

If I could suggest you a reference, you could try using "Hiroyoshi Tsukamoto's MangaMatrix". Probably one of the best usage of a matrix to create characters I've read yet. It actually ranges and utilizes different species of animals to humans to create rather unique characters. It could help you with your monster girls.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on November 24, 2014, 08:32:10 pm
I meant to make my post in the Show Your Artwork Thread, but instead I posted it here without realizing it. :derp: But I appreciate the feedback! I'll be responding to the points you make in order, to clear up any confusion that would otherwise arise (being autistic, giving people the wrong idea is something I myself do often and unintentionally  :ohdear:)

Feedback

I see what you mean in regards to animalization. I know some things I could have done to make them look more animal-like, but you can see the reasons in the dA desc if you want to see them.

As for the chubbyness, I guess it's just a case of one man's middleweight being another man's chubby. :P

I see what you mean about the breasts; that's easily fixed.

Also, I'm not offended by your feedback. Considering this forum's culture, your feedback is actually rather gently worded. :)

Feedbacks

Agreed she should look like a little girl, but for the best result I had to make her an adult xD

I could have made the frog girl look more amphibian, true. I think I know what you mean and exactly how to go about making it more obvious she's a frog monster.

Designing penguin girls is hard :V I had some design choices to make her look more like one, but couldn't go through with it due to lack of time.

I think I see what you mean. Human upper half, monster lower half, right? Though it's different for some kinds of plant girls...

I'll consider putting that book on my to-buy list once I get to the right point. Thanks for the suggestion!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Colticide on December 04, 2014, 06:00:38 pm
So thank you all for the drawing tips! Fun with a pencil by Andrew Loomis was much better then I had hoped, however I feel that I need some more work on the anime style of faces and especially the eyes. Maybe I should just play around with faces first but would still like some tips on how to do eyes. Can be simple or complex.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: divinefrog on December 10, 2014, 11:15:05 pm
Excuse me... I'm trying to get into serious comic making and I was wondering if anyone had any programs that I can use to make an easier time of formatting. I use SAI, but to be frank, I find it's editing capabilities to be somewhat weak, so mostly what I do is paint and sketch in it, without finishing many pictures. I don't think I can insert text into it (which makes putting in dialogue hand-cramping at best) and I've no idea how to use the line tool for panel layout, so I mostly end up drawing my own lines which are frankly sloppy at best.

Something simple that isn't too hard to transfer to would be my favorite, but I'm open to suggestions. Also I want to know if there are any particular stipulations on size. I tend to try to go for larger images, but ahh... I'm aware that some of them get crunched up in previews. Is there any way to avoid this?

I've made one comic (Here! (http://40.media.tumblr.com/86992ca19792892ce729745951332c82/tumblr_nbo48x6YaE1s5d3c7o1_1280.png)) so far, but it was pretty back-breaking and I had to give up on nice clean linework so I don't know if I'll try it this way again. Any critique at all, especially on layout and readability is greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Inigo Montoya on December 11, 2014, 01:50:57 am
Excuse me... I'm trying to get into serious comic making and I was wondering if anyone had any programs that I can use to make an easier time of formatting. I use SAI, but to be frank, I find it's editing capabilities to be somewhat weak, so mostly what I do is paint and sketch in it, without finishing many pictures. I don't think I can insert text into it (which makes putting in dialogue hand-cramping at best) and I've no idea how to use the line tool for panel layout, so I mostly end up drawing my own lines which are frankly sloppy at best.

Something simple that isn't too hard to transfer to would be my favorite, but I'm open to suggestions. Also I want to know if there are any particular stipulations on size. I tend to try to go for larger images, but ahh... I'm aware that some of them get crunched up in previews. Is there any way to avoid this?

I've made one comic (Here! (http://40.media.tumblr.com/86992ca19792892ce729745951332c82/tumblr_nbo48x6YaE1s5d3c7o1_1280.png)) so far, but it was pretty back-breaking and I had to give up on nice clean linework so I don't know if I'll try it this way again. Any critique at all, especially on layout and readability is greatly appreciated!

Great start to your comic there! I like the stroke, and the page size is fine if this is meant for online reading. The text as you said, could be cleaner, but it actually does fit in context with your style.

Anyway, for programs, there's of course the usual Adobe Photoshop which may cost an arm and a leg, but I'd suggest Clip Studio Paint (http://www.clipstudio.net/en). The pens are similar to Sai, and there are editing tools to add in panel layouts, text, and screentone effects among others. The Pro version is rather affordable and there's even periodical sales where the price goes even lower.

For page size, if it's online, then the sky's the limit and you can make the canvas as big as you want, but if you're planning for future book printing, something along A4/B4 size at 300 to 600 dpi would suffice. With that you can already resize for the usual book sizes without losing quality in print.

Hope that helps and keep on drawing  :D
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: divinefrog on December 11, 2014, 06:41:31 am
Great start to your comic there! I like the stroke, and the page size is fine if this is meant for online reading. The text as you said, could be cleaner, but it actually does fit in context with your style.

Anyway, for programs, there's of course the usual Adobe Photoshop which may cost an arm and a leg, but I'd suggest Clip Studio Paint (http://www.clipstudio.net/en). The pens are similar to Sai, and there are editing tools to add in panel layouts, text, and screentone effects among others. The Pro version is rather affordable and there's even periodical sales where the price goes even lower.

For page size, if it's online, then the sky's the limit and you can make the canvas as big as you want, but if you're planning for future book printing, something along A4/B4 size at 300 to 600 dpi would suffice. With that you can already resize for the usual book sizes without losing quality in print.

Hope that helps and keep on drawing  :D

Thank you so much. I was having a really rough time finding a middle ground between Photoshop and SAI, so it's a great relief to find such a nice alternative. It's good to know about the resizing information- I was really concerned about it but just couldn't seem to find any information.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on December 13, 2014, 01:46:25 am
Well... first of all, art isn't really my forte. I'm more into video games, so I'm by no means expert on the former. But sometimes I wish I could draw some stuff, so...

I'd like to buy a drawing tablet to help me with this. I think I'd enjoy more drawing through the computer than traditional media. But from what I could see, there are many models/brands/etc (ctl-480l, cth480l, cth680l, whatever), so I have absolutely no idea which one to get.

Can someone recommend me a good drawing tablet? It'd help a bunch.

If you need to know what kind of stuff I wish to draw, then it's mostly humans (bishoujo, etc), but maybe fantasy monsters occasionally as well.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on December 13, 2014, 02:39:11 am
I've tried Monoprice and low-end Wacom. Monoprice is really, really good. I'd totally recommend it for anyone who's not drawing for a profession, though you should note that it's desperately lacking in tech support and may have compatibility issues - nothing you can't work around, and the price does make up for it, but it can still be a hassle.
Drawing pads as in tablets? Try Monoprice.
if you've got $50 to shell out (http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=113&cp_id=11303&cs_id=1084101)
or wacom if you have $$$
please read the thread
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on December 13, 2014, 02:51:43 am
None of the previous posts are explaining the difference between the Wacom models and this is what I want to know.

So I'll repeat: can someone recommend me a good model?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on December 13, 2014, 04:47:04 am
Did you try looking at the Wacom website? They have a compare function...
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on December 13, 2014, 09:10:28 am
The model numbers for the wacoms just indicate which type you have, along with the size, as you can see here (http://101.wacom.com/productsupport/model.php). So ignore the model numbers and just focus on which product line you want, and what size you want.
If you're just beginning, I doubt you would need to look beyond the Intuos line of Wacom tablets. Intuos Manga comes with a 2 year license to Clip Studio Paint. It might just be because the school monitors are huge, but I found working with them to be a bit too sensitive in a weird sort of way. It could also have been Photoshop's fault, since it doesn't feature any line correcting like drawing programs do.
I use the bamboo fun (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000V9RL3Y/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used), which was their previous low end model. Pressure sensitivity is lower, but it works pretty good for me. The cheapest used one on ebay in the link above is like 30$. However, it doesn't come with any software so you'd have to use Sai or Krita or Sketchbook or something.
For non-wacom tablets, I hear monoprice is pretty good. I don't have any experience with them, but many people say they work quite well. The only usual complaint is that the pens often feel cheaper than wacom ones and also need batteries to work; wacom pens don't.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on December 14, 2014, 06:08:49 pm
Thank you for the info, Mea.

So... I just found this on Mercado Livre (pretty much the Brazilian equivalent to ebay):
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-597572051-mesa-digitalizadora-tablet-wacom-manga-comic--_JM

It's a bit expensive, but seems to be specific for drawing manga style. Since this is the style I want to draw mostly, would it be a good idea to purchase this model?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Vyrien on December 14, 2014, 11:13:13 pm
Thank you for the info, Mea.

So... I just found this on Mercado Livre (pretty much the Brazilian equivalent to ebay):
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-597572051-mesa-digitalizadora-tablet-wacom-manga-comic--_JM

It's a bit expensive, but seems to be specific for drawing manga style. Since this is the style I want to draw mostly, would it be a good idea to purchase this model?

No, it's an absolute gimmick. The only reason it's called manga is because of the software it comes with then they slap a premium price on it. You'd be better looking at the Intuos Pen Small or Intuos Pen and Touch Medium. Personally, however, I'd see if I could find a second hand Bamboo fun Medium (cth-670) or Bamboo pen and touch (cth-470k) on the cheap (depending on what size you want).
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: HakureiSM on December 14, 2014, 11:34:41 pm
You're Brazilian, stay the fuck away from ML.com or anywhere else that you can buy electronics from in our country, and buy one of these (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-H420-Art-Graphics-USB-Drawing-Graphics-Tablet-Digital-Pen-For-Laptop-Computer/1879267110.html).

It's cheap, small, several reviews say it's pretty damn good, and you won't get anally raped in the wallethole with our ridiculous taxes and fees. Seriously, R$500 for a freaking starter-level graphics tablet is just fucking ridiculous. If you're just starting and this is your first tablet, a smaller one will do better, and you shouldn't invest half a grand in something you might not even like. Plus wacom marks their stuff up by default since everyone knows the brand, but that doesn't mean they're any less shitty than some other brands. Particularly Monoprice(which isn't worth it for us because shipping from the US gets expensive) and Huion are doing jolly fine in reviews. Plus, it's R$60, if it's not great you can just resell or give it to someone and buy something else lol
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on December 15, 2014, 12:21:35 am
Good news: Iirc, Monoprice tablets are actually manufactured by Huion, so whether you buy from one company or the other, they should be just as good.

Yeah, I'd echo the suggestion not to jump straight into Wacom. I made that mistake when I first started getting into drawing. The tablet wasn't bad or anything. It's just that, after buying and trying both Wacom and Monoprice entry-level models, I can very confidently tell you that buying from Monoprice doesn't put you at a disadvantage whatsoever.

Actually, I'd just make the suggestion not to jump straight into digital, if you haven't done much drawing yet. How much have you done on paper, or are you just starting out?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on December 16, 2014, 01:56:19 am
I've done some drawing on paper before but they were all sucky xD, and I didn't feel very comfortable with traditional media. I'm sure I can adapt to digital drawing if I spend time and effort on it.

That said, you guys are right. The Manga Wacom model is pretty expensive and not worth it, so I guess I'll go with the tablet Haku pointed out.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on December 16, 2014, 07:32:13 am
Good digital artists are generally good traditional artists too.  Unless you're talking about finishing a traditional piece, as in like painting or charcoal or watercolour or what not, in which case, yeah, digital drawing is a different media that better suits some more than others. You seem to be talking about just pencil and paper sketching/drawing in general though. But don't give up on those! The skills you develop with paper very much transfers over to the digital realm.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on March 15, 2015, 11:03:55 am
I replaced my Intuos with a Huion 610 a weekish ago! It's... okay. I wish I could say it matched up with the Wacom on every way, but that's not true lmfao. The drivers are crap (whether or not Photoshop wants to cooperate is a complete shitthrow + manga studio ex 4 just plain doesn't work (http://i.imgur.com/aMN54Ty.png)) and it might be my imagination but it's not as sensitive.

I mean, the price still beats a /new/ Wacom out of the water but you might want to take a look at eBay first.

Also Krita's (https://krita.org/download/krita-desktop/) decent if you don't mind it being buggy and a bit slower than Photoshop. Definitely give that a go if you're looking to try new software.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on March 15, 2015, 06:08:03 pm
so, it's me again,

I was wondering what would be better: Huion H420 or Huion 580?

Yes, Huion 580 because I can't purchase H580 or anything beyond that. The 580 model is as far as I can go.

all I know is that the "H" models seems to have some extra buttons or something, but I dunno what they are for.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on March 15, 2015, 07:24:19 pm
I'd choose 580 if I had to choose one of the two. The buttons don't really matter. They're just shortcuts for keyboard commands.

Now I've said this before, but Monoprice models are manufactured by Huion - Like, Huion H610 is even the same tablet as the Monoprice 10594, and Monoprice's is cheaper. So if you haven't yet, I'd suggest checking out Monoprice's tablets, just to compare prices. (The bad drivers and tech support don't change, in case anyone was wondering)

On another note, have you been practicing on traditional since we all last talked on this thread? I would feel a lot better about recommending this stuff to you if I knew you were already solid on the basics of drawing, but we don't exactly know where you are in terms of skill.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on March 15, 2015, 10:02:49 pm
I haven't practiced at all those days, sadly  :(  .......... partly because I lack the materials for that, and partly because I've been without inspiration/focusing on other stuff.

But I feel like drawing again now. That's why I'm posting here again. I'm currently reading through websites with art tutorials, comparing each other, etc. But all I'm doing so far is studying the theory. I haven't put anything in practice yet and I can't say for sure how good the result will be.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on March 15, 2015, 10:05:40 pm
get started then m8
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on March 15, 2015, 11:24:36 pm
You lack materials? You don't need a tablet or a sketchbook or anything like that, if that's what you're thinking! Just find yourself a stack of scratch paper, an everyday pencil, and a good eraser that doesn't smudge.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Bio on March 16, 2015, 04:53:51 am
I went out around a week ago and bought a 0.2 and 0.4 so I could do some paper drawings while I was sitting on the train. The very next day I managed to lose the 0.4 and I had to take a good look at myself and wonder why I even bother buying pens.
Moral of the story is that materials don't matter, I just use my writing pens now and draw on lined paper.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maple on April 03, 2015, 02:07:36 am
I had my art classes for some months by now and i think i want to make the jump to digital art. So... i'd get Monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=108&cp_id=10841) over Huion (http://www.huiontablet.com/all-products/graphic-tablets/) because of money. The 10'' x 6.25'' look the most attractive, but do i need such a screen? Why do tech sites use filthy imperial system instead of glorious metric system?

Now for software. I'm considering SAI as it (as per comments) allows good use of color and i want a lot of color. Do your colors have enough saturation? No they don't. But i want to make in format of comic and it seems that SAI isn't the best one (for drawing the panels), preferring Manga Studio, but MS seems to have problems for color. A lot of the...artists i follow on pixiv ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) use SAI, but their images are single-panel, the one making (monochrome) doujin manga being the one who uses Manga Studio, and he does use SAI for single-panel color drawings. Today i checked that Warugaki (which i don't follow on pixiv) also uses Manga Studio.

Also photoshop is out of discussion. With that price i could buy everything in the two previous paragraphs.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on April 03, 2015, 05:18:23 am
When I started out with tablets, I bought a Bamboo Pen & Touch, which has an active area of 5.8"x3.6". You can pretty much get used to any size of tablet. So no, you technically don't need 10"x6.25", but I would still suggest it. It's just a lot more comfortable, imo.

If you're willing to learn something like GIMP, the comic side of things can probably be taken care of for SAI, though not without significant hassle. Otherwise I'd go with MS (to be fair, I haven't used it myself, however).
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: DX7.EP on April 03, 2015, 06:36:53 am
I prefer Autodesk Sketchbook, myself, as its interface is well-catered to tablet PC users. While it is excellent for quick doodles and detailed edits, I do not consider it a one-stop shop either; thus I'd recommend either getting just a general jack-of-all-trades software or a combination of software to utilise in a chain (eg. sketching program + comic format program).

Do your colors have enough saturation? No they don't.
Don't over-saturate your colours, now! :P

Would also help to have pro-calibre (IPS/PLS panel) displays for higher colour gamut accuracy versus a standard TN one. Over-correcting saturation amid a bad display is often not a good thing, after all.

Quote
Why do tech sites use filthy imperial system instead of glorious metric system?
Screen sizes are almost always measured and categorised in inches, even in lands where imperial measurements are otherwise unknown.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Bio on April 03, 2015, 07:13:50 am
Getting a colour calibrator is real nice. You can now join the secret circle of everyone else who uses 6500k.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on April 03, 2015, 08:38:42 am
I... don't think a color calibrator is necessary for most people lmao
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Vento on April 04, 2015, 04:34:19 am
Sai  is love sai is liv

I use clip studio to tone my comics and stuff tho
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on May 03, 2015, 11:07:09 am
Hooooly crap. To all the people here who were suggesting studying anatomy, and to the person who invited me to those sessions a few years ago (I forget who): forgive me for not having listened to you. I just re-picked up drawing, after several months of busy-ness, along with some anatomy studies, and once again hooooly crap. Everything is so much easier. My third eye is opening, one I never knew was closed. Form, structure, balance, sense, everything, aaaaaaah--
Here (http://www.comic-tools.com/search/label/anatomy?updated-max=2009-04-18T20:00:00-04:00&max-results=20&start=12&by-date=false) is a fairly fun mini-series, just keep scrolling backwards through his posts.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on May 13, 2015, 08:20:26 pm
Lucky you, Mea. It still all feels like witchcraft to me ^^;

Could someone link me to something that shows me how fat dilutes the muscles as seen past the skin? Been doing quite a few posemaniacs-based drills, and I'd like to see which muscles poke out, as well as when they do.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on May 14, 2015, 01:12:30 am
It may be more useful to you to think instead of how (the visible/important muscles) attach to the underlying skeletal structures. They all have beginning and ending points. If you know that, then you just connect those points with squishy things, ie: the actual muscle. That way, instead of thinking of how the muscles in the armpit area stick out a certain way, you can just draw the rib cage/clavicle/etc and humerus and just start connecting them with the right muscles. The armpit then draws itself. Kind of like drawing a star by randomly putting down 5 dots and then connecting them, as opposed to trying to draw it by only the contour. Not saying that I'm at this level, but I'm trying to get there. Try also starting with one area at a time, since this is all really hard and complicated. I'm starting from the head and making my way down. Which is why my characters are currently limbless

Edit: ie: The answer to your question, why does this muscle stick out? Is, because that muscle is connecting between two point on separate bones. And the more you move those points around, the more the muscles have to stretch to stay connected.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Bio on May 14, 2015, 03:13:23 am
The question seems more like how subcutaneous fat changes the form of the skin. The answer is it doesn't really because for a normal person this layer is small enough that the muscles and bones can still contribute to the surface, with the fat only contributing really to curves. For an overweight person, a quick image search reveals that the only (typical) affected areas are the abdomen, hips, shoulders and necks and upper thighs. The rest of the body doesn't see that much of a drastic change that the deeper muscles don't contribute at all.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on May 14, 2015, 03:34:59 am
I saw that as 2 questions, one on fat and one on the appearance of muscles. I got the latter and you got the former, so teamwork!
Just found this YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/user/ProkoTV) channel, anatomy for artists which my roommate suggested that looks promising.

It seemed to me like he was trying to learn the body by looking through posemaniacs, which is about as useful as labeling lumps on the surface, which is why I made the comment on the inner connections. It's an excellent resource for reference after you get general attachments of the insides worked out I think.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Bio on May 14, 2015, 03:47:57 am
Yea, it won't do you much good to learn surface landmarks and not understand why they're there.
Spending some money on anatomy book isn't so bad either. I've got Rogers Peck on the side tabbed out and it's just an easy flip cause pdfs are a pain.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Teewee on May 14, 2015, 09:31:35 pm
So, the general ideas you're telling me are:
- I can see how muscles poke out past the skin based on how the muscle groups connect to certain bones
- Fat doesnt lessen muscle protrusion much, most of what it does is make parts of the body more rounded. For overweight people, the fat only significantly lessens muscle protrustion in the ab, hip, shoulder, neck, and upper thigh areas.

Is that correct?

Also, I know how helpful anatomy books can be, but teaching myself through them doesn't work out very well. If I had someone to guide me through them, I'd do well, but since I don't...well, I keep trying to make use of what resources I have. Which are admittedly lacking, despite how much there is on the net.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Fumi on May 20, 2015, 12:17:34 am
I don't know if this goes here but I need help. For those with tablets, do you know if I can use different tablet models and pencils?

See, I got a Bamboo Fun CTE-650, the tablet is working but I'm afraid the pen isn't, it broke and it won't even respond. So my question is, can I use any kind of tablet pen? I've tried to look for a pen that matches my tablet model but they are rare and it's pricey :<

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on May 20, 2015, 01:26:07 am
My roommate's CTH-470 pen does not work on my CTE-450, and vice-versa. I would assume this cross incompatibility carries over to every other iteration of bamboo as well, unless Google says otherwise.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: DX7.EP on May 20, 2015, 02:42:14 am
Usually, no. Digitisers vary by manufacturer, model, and implementation, so you will need to check with Wacom for a compatible part.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Fumi on May 21, 2015, 01:57:27 am
Thank you, I shouldn't risk and instead buy a new tablet :( besides, this one is too old (and it isn't mine anyway ;A;)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maple on May 28, 2015, 12:00:59 am
Remember me? I got my tablet   :3. There weren't 10x6.25 available in distribution for my country so i got a 8x5.

Now: how i am supposed to use it?! Now it feels so unnatural, i got hand strain after some minutes, i must put my sight either on my computer screen or on the tablet and that's more or less the same as drawing blind, i put my arm up and down more times in 5 minutes than in a hour-long art class...

Some tips before i destroy return it?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 28, 2015, 12:04:47 am
Everyone struggles with a typical drawing tablet at first. Don't expect to get good drawings from it for a good while, and just keep practicing.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maple on May 28, 2015, 12:18:39 am
Everyone struggles with a typical drawing tablet at first. Don't expect to get good drawings from it for a good while, and just keep practicing.

Could you be a bit more specific? I'm a total novice here and to say that is like telling a 4 year old to practice his algebra skills. Sorry for my rudeness, i'm getting my jimmies too rustled over this common situation. :fail:

btw, currently i have SAI trial version, if that helps.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on May 28, 2015, 12:35:03 am
I don't know how you could possibly get hand strains from using a tablet. Have you ever held a pencil? Do you get hand stains from using that? Just hold the stylus like a pencil.
By practice, Kracko means to develop the hand eye coordination of drawing something without being able to look at your hands. And the only way to acquire that is with time, to ingrain the physical skill into your body.
It may help to hold/place the tablet in different positions. If the height of your desk is what may be causing strain, through unnatural wrist positions, try holding the tablet in your lap. Or somewhere else. Presumably a place you would feel comfortable drawing with an actual sketch book on.
Like I said, it takes time. One of the better practice routines would be to draw straight vertical and horizontal lines. If there's any angle, try rotating the tablet until it looks right. Or learn to draw straight regardless. Once again, your body will understand eventually.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Delfigamer on May 28, 2015, 02:00:54 am
Strange. When I got my tablet, it took me only several hours to get used to it. Not like I suddenly started to paint like da Vinci, though.
Maybe your tablet works in a relative mode? Supposedly, placing a pen on the tablet should move the mouse pointer to a corresponding position; but, sometimes, Windows think it's a touchpad, and even applies ballistics of one. Needless to say, the latter mode is several orders more confusing, if at all usable, and is certainly not the one intended.
Could it be that your drivers aren't configured appropriately?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 28, 2015, 02:42:53 am
Delfi brings up a good point. Some tablets by default will stretch and skew your cursor's movements because the resolution of the tablet doesn't match the resolution of the screen. You should definitely check out your settings.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on August 27, 2015, 03:13:27 pm
I feel like silhouette practice is helping me in that I have the pieces in my head but not the overall figure. It also helps you to be a bit more daring about shapes and poses since you don't have to worry about the details. If you make them small enough, ~3in/7.5cm, you can do a lot really quickly.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Massaca on September 06, 2015, 12:41:30 am
So I've got quite a lot of spare time but waste a fair bit of it sitting around doing absolutely nothing, lack of interest in anything. Drawing is one of the only things I really want to do and have for a while, wish I could but I can't at all. Can't even copy from a reference image right there. Never had any artisctic talent at all.
Of course though, I also have no understanding and lack even the basics so I was wondering, how do I start to learn from the very beginning? I'm sure there are tons of books and sites but I wouldn't know which were half decent and which to avoid.


(If I can even get anywhere or learn anything I just want to draw cute girls and such, typically. Mainly I want to do digital stuff but I assume it's best not to just buy the cheap intuos drawing pad, jump right in and try to learn from there >_> And if I could actually learn to draw with pencil and paper that'd be great anyway)
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on September 06, 2015, 02:23:51 am
So an entirely new hobby? I can relate, I just picked something entirely new up recently myself.
I think the key when learning new things is to internalize tiny pieces at a time. Morsels, like gum--something small you carry in your mouth everywhere and that you can just continually chew and chew and chew and chew and chew away at. Having to continually refer back to something you're learning is tiring and discouraging. Practice the pieces you've internalized, then play around with them once you start getting bored. Then check back on the references once in a while to make sure you're doing well. Having random drawing buddies help too.
Keep showing your work and keep getting feedback. If you start to feel a little discouraged or sluggish with your progress, getting someone to keep you accountable can be helpful so you can keep practicing and hence keep getting better.
References references, I keep mentioning references, try this one (http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/). Check out Andrew Loomis' Fun with a Pencil on that page. Around page 14 ish is a great place to start. It may not be the style (or gender, lol) that you're going for, but I think it's excellent for getting into the swing of things. The best way to draw is bottom up; quick, easy, nice consistency is the trick. You'll get better at each of those when you've done it often enough, but the best way to be consistent and stay consistent is to start bottom up, ie: with a framework, an undersketch. And it doesn't have to be spheres and cubes, personally I found those hard myself. I like circles a lot, and those pages in Andrew Loomis help you. Draw a circle-ish thing here, draw one line here, then plot a blobby-thing for an eye here.
When I say consistent, I mean that you don't want to spend an hour drawing two things where one looks awesome, the other sucks and you can't figure out why. Having a framework of some sort helps with that, you can figure out what you did differently, how you plotted the elements on this most basic frame (like a circle, or a couple squares). You can adjust the relative distances, sizes, etc next time and see how it turns out. When you feel one works well, you'll remember it and your work will be consistent.
If referencing someone else's artwork, I'd suggest someone with very simple, clean, nice linework first. Avoid the complex, hair-strands-everywhere artists. If you're drawing anime-y, avoid the complex eyes too. All you need is a sideways pair of parenthesis hood with a circle inbetween. To be honest, I don't think it helps at all in the beginning because you're not adept enough to absorb the general aesthetics of the reference into your own style and it takes too long anyway, but sometimes it's helpful. And fun, I had lots of fun with that back in the day. Still took forever though. Also, if you're posting it, make sure you credit the original source. Oh, and remember that the point of copying or referencing someone else's work is to learn from it, not to just post it as some inferior version on DeviantArt.
As for tablets, some people apparently are more geared towards digital drawings, but I feel that you should hold off on that. The tablet isn't some magic wand that helps accelerate the learning of drawing. You should start with pencil and paper first. It's also more portable. I suggest you buy a big sketchbook to keep all your drawings in. Buy a small one and you'll often find your character's lower bodies being cut off; buy a big sketchbook. And then make a daily goal of filling in a page or two. Maybe start a 60 day improvement blog to keep yourself accountable.

Avoid How to Draw Anime books and their variants like the plague. If one touches you, burn your clothes and recite a thousand sutras. If you touch one, cut off that hand and I'll give you advice on drawing with your feet.

Above all, if you want to do something, do it now, start now. If you're not going to be an artist as a profession or living, you don't need talent, you just need to start now. Like right away. Get as much time in as you can. Good luck.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Bio on September 06, 2015, 05:27:35 am
Pen control will be what let's you improve the most during the early stages. You can't learn to draw, if you can't draw.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Massaca on September 07, 2015, 02:20:42 am
Thank you very much, I really appreciate it.
I don't have anyone to draw or check with but no matter. I do already have a book, Spiral bound on the long side, bit short of A3 size with those slightly thicker pages.

Anyway, read through the first 14 pages of Fun with a Pencil. I'll go through when I get home and start with it, see how things go. Nice to have a place to start.

Thanks again.

Pen control will be what let's you improve the most during the early stages. You can't learn to draw, if you can't draw.
That's something I didn't consider before and I imagine it's certainly a contributing factor.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: kinoko on September 07, 2015, 02:37:46 am
Check out Perspective Made Easy imo. Also I like Hampton muuuch more than Loomis (buy a physical copy of his figure drawing book (http://www.amazon.com/Figure-Drawing-Invention-Michael-Hampton/dp/0615272819) after getting throuhg fun with a pencil and skip every other loomis book). Bridgman is alright too but miles less comprehensible.

Buy a cheap plain sketchbook and bring it with you everywhere.

e- Go to a cafe, park, or library to draw!
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on September 07, 2015, 04:48:53 am
Also I like Hampton muuuch more than Loomis (buy a physical copy of his figure drawing book (http://www.amazon.com/Figure-Drawing-Invention-Michael-Hampton/dp/0615272819) after getting throuhg fun with a pencil and skip every other loomis book). Bridgman is alright too but miles less comprehensible.
Hm I might have to get one myself. What else would you recommend? I'm going through one of the Bridgman anatomy PDFs and having some trouble since it pretty much only lists muscles and their actions with a couple limited example pencil sketches thrown in.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Kitten4u on September 07, 2015, 08:44:59 pm
If you're just looking for a place to start then I actually recommend copying other things you see, whether it be other paintings (even then it can be anything from a photograph, to a old master painting to a random image on Danbooru that you like) or objects from life.  Drawing from another 2D image will be easier because then you can just focus on the shapes rather than try to figure out exactly how to translate a 3D object to a 2D surface.  Also, to clarify, I  mean copy, not trace.  Tracing will not help you, but copying is much more useful than it sounds, and I'm surprised it doesn't get recommended more often. 

For me, the first hurdle with painting was training my eyes to see what's actually there rather than what my brain thinks is there.  In order to avoid overwhelming us with information, our brains developed a very effective auto-correct system and simplification system that we as artists have to learn to look past in order to accurately portray what we see.  By copying something, you're learning to look at what's actually there rather than what you think is there.  It's important to take it really slow so that you make sure you're really paying attention to everything there.  Besides helping you learn to train your eyes, if you're copying photographs or other works that you consider 'good' or 'high quality' you're giving yourself a baseline for your own work.  You'll just start understanding whether or not something is 'correct' because you've been looking at it and emulating it for so long.  This will help you spot mistakes in your own work so that you can go correct them.

For techniques, there's one that I think carries over regardless of what you want to draw, the medium you want to use, or any other techniques you find you like: an iterative approach.  What I mean by that, is that you don't want to jump into details right away, rather you want to start with the simpler shapes and then fill in the details so that you can see the whole image first and make sure your composition's good, your proportions are correct etc.  This post (http://anatoref.tumblr.com/post/126495809101/light-and-shading-tutorial) shows it better than I explain it.  See how the artist blocks out the simple shapes first and then starts adding details?

For medium, most of what you learn from one medium will carry over to others just fine; you'll have to learn the quirks of whatever particular medium you want to use.  So, if you know you want to do digital I don't think there's anything wrong with picking up a tablet and diving right into it.  If you're not sure you'll like the hobby, or just can't afford a tablet right now, then starting out with a pencil and paper won't slow you down any if you decide to switch to digital later.  Don't worry about it too much, the important part is just drawing.

With all that said, in my opinion, the most important thing you can do to learn how to draw is draw what you like.  Learning how to draw can be frustrating, so it's important to keep it fun.  Besides, no one becomes an artist 'to get better,' they do it because there's stuff they want to draw.  So, be sure to do whatever's fun for you.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Maple on September 08, 2015, 04:13:21 pm
The other day i noticed that although i'm good at shading with graphite pencils, i don't know how to use colored pencils, it's either too faint or too harsh and scratched, talking about textures. I once commented that i could do better color using only black pencils. I was going to post yesterday and i also noticed that a lot of links in the OP are dead.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on September 16, 2015, 12:04:27 am
That Figure Drawing book just arrive today. Only been through a few pages, but I'm really enjoying it. The presentation is colourful and appealing. Having a book feels so good, unlike the crampiness of pdfs onscreen. I hope to get through a couple pages a day. Not sure what I was expecting, more like a crappy anatomy compendium I guess, but this is really nice. Figure drawing, I suppose. Not how to draw anatomy tuts. Anatomy seems pretty far in later.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Hannibal_Kills on May 09, 2016, 03:03:20 pm
If you're just looking for a place to start then I actually recommend copying other things you see, whether it be other paintings (even then it can be anything from a photograph, to a old master painting to a random image on Danbooru that you like) or objects from life.  Drawing from another 2D image will be easier because then you can just focus on the shapes rather than try to figure out exactly how to translate a 3D object to a 2D surface.  Also, to clarify, I  mean copy, not trace.  Tracing will not help you, but copying is much more useful than it sounds, and I'm surprised it doesn't get recommended more often. 

For me, the first hurdle with painting was training my eyes to see what's actually there rather than what my brain thinks is there.  In order to avoid overwhelming us with information, our brains developed a very effective auto-correct system and simplification system that we as artists have to learn to look past in order to accurately portray what we see.  By copying something, you're learning to look at what's actually there rather than what you think is there.  It's important to take it really slow so that you make sure you're really paying attention to everything there.  Besides helping you learn to train your eyes, if you're copying photographs or other works that you consider 'good' or 'high quality' you're giving yourself a baseline for your own work.  You'll just start understanding whether or not something is 'correct' because you've been looking at it and emulating it for so long.  This will help you spot mistakes in your own work so that you can go correct them.

For techniques, there's one that I think carries over regardless of what you want to draw, the medium you want to use, or any other techniques you find you like: an iterative approach.  What I mean by that, is that you don't want to jump into details right away, rather you want to start with the simpler shapes and then fill in the details so that you can see the whole image first and make sure your composition's good, your proportions are correct etc.  This post (http://anatoref.tumblr.com/post/126495809101/light-and-shading-tutorial) shows it better than I explain it.  See how the artist blocks out the simple shapes first and then starts adding details?

For medium, most of what you learn from one medium will carry over to others just fine; you'll have to learn the quirks of whatever particular medium you want to use.  So, if you know you want to do digital I don't think there's anything wrong with picking up a tablet and diving right into it.  If you're not sure you'll like the hobby, or just can't afford a tablet right now, then starting out with a pencil and paper won't slow you down any if you decide to switch to digital later.  Don't worry about it too much, the important part is just drawing.

With all that said, in my opinion, the most important thing you can do to learn how to draw is draw what you like.  Learning how to draw can be frustrating, so it's important to keep it fun.  Besides, no one becomes an artist 'to get better,' they do it because there's stuff they want to draw.  So, be sure to do whatever's fun for you.
I always re-draw my game screenshots instead of using my imagination to create one picture. Never knew it's a really good tip.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Z_A on June 17, 2017, 01:29:38 pm
I wonder if someone ever visits this thread these days, huh... Starting my own thread would be a bad idea as well, since I am not posting any of my work. Yet.

Anyway, what I wanted to ask for advice on was... no, that requires a bit of introduction. I made several Touhou arrangements using a midi editor. That's the reason I wouldn't post those: it seems, most people here just hate the default Windows midi soundfont (taken from some Roland synth, as far as I know). Well, it doesn't sound very good, but it's free, it's recognizable and really widespread, since Windows is so popular, and some other platforms don't have a default way of playing midi at all. Good or bad, however, it doesn't matter; what matter is that a midi file isn't actually real music. I feel like i'm kind of stuck at this point. I'd like to share my works, have them evaluated, criticized etc. But to do that, I need to convert them from midi to something else. And probably use a different soundfont, too. In this forum, I've learned about something that is called a DAW. So, in order to do that, I need one of those, then? Right? Or am I missing something? There was a lot discussed about art here, but much less about music, so please, could you guide me anyhow?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Mеа on June 19, 2017, 06:43:16 am
Maybe people do hate the sound of the default windows midi instruments, maybe others don't care, but my gripe with it is that midi doesn't feel like a very responsible or considerate form to submit your work in. For starters, it's not very nice to have to ask the audience to download the file, load up a midi player, load the file, select the instruments, and then finally after all this to play the file. People don't have long attention spans and I certainly feel less inclined to go listen to something when I need to go through all these steps to listen to it. One link. I appreciate it when all I have to do is click on one link to listen to the music.

And second, as a creator, you have no control over how the listener experiences your work. Which is why you should select your own instruments and create the final music file yourself. Retain artistic integrity and control and all that.

DAWs are a good way of doing that. There are plenty of free ones out there which you can find on the google machine. There are also lots of free vsts that you can download, virtual instruments, among which you can pick out the one that you would like your notes to be played by. I'm not super well-versed with the usage of these because I don't use these much, but simple experimentation with them works well most of the time.
So: go pick out a free DAW, go pick out some free vsts, go make some noise.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: GenericArrangements on June 19, 2017, 09:34:52 am
Yeah, I'd suggest using a DAW, preferably a free one until you know what you're doing. LMMS is what I used to use, and it's very user-friendly for newcomers to the digital music scene, although I don't like its reverberators very much (which are super important for mixing). Really it's the only place to go after MIDIs. DAWs take a long time to get used to - particularly in terms of mixing - but with good enough plugins you should be fine. Just keep making stuff until it sounds up to your standards. Good luck!

it's not very nice to have to ask the audience to download the file, load up a midi player, load the file, select the instruments, and then finally after all this to play the file. People don't have long attention spans and I certainly feel less inclined to go listen to something when I need to go through all these steps to listen to it.
That's probably an issue on your end. In my experience all a MIDI requires is Windows Media Player unless you're trying to play it at higher quality than necessary (which is rather pointless for such simple files).
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Z_A on June 19, 2017, 10:51:50 am
Thanks for help guys! I just had a couple more questions.

@Mea: sure thing, I understood that already ^^ I did read the forum a bit and what you said:
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midi doesn't feel like a very responsible or considerate form to submit your work in
strikes me as true (with all the rest of it in mind, of course). That's why I'm trying to do something about it. It doesn't have anything to deal with attention spans of people though :P

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DAWs are a good way of doing that. There are plenty of free ones out there which you can find on the google machine. There are also lots of free vsts that you can download, virtual instruments, among which you can pick out the one that you would like your notes to be played by. I'm not super well-versed with the usage of these because I don't use these much, but simple experimentation with them works well most of the time.
Thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to know! I also did a bit of research myself, but I don't understand all of this yet. Isn't a VST basically a software synthesizer, and do I need one for each of the instruments, or can one be used as more than one instrument, if I use different settings? Because I really use a lot of them already. Also, could you (or someone else around here) recommend some of those that sound prettiest? And do those plugins also emulate drums? I think, if I got that correctly, that there are also such things as samples and soundfonts, that can also be used to make music, not just synthesized sound. Should I use those as well?

@GenericArrangements: as soon as I posted that, I tried LMMS. Sure is harder to use that my midi editor, but it just feels more right. I also tried using several other soundfonts to play my midis, rather than the default one, and some of those indeed have better sound. That might be worth trying as well, especially since LMMS has a soundfont player tool. What worries me is that some of the more complex formatting that I used in my midis didn't import into LMMS correctly; it probably doesn't support all of the so-called flags or events.

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In my experience all a MIDI requires is Windows Media Player
That's not entirely true: some platforms don't have a way of playing midi at all (like my former Windows Phone), and some others play it not the intended way (like my new Android device). What Mea said is correct. As I send a file to my friend, who I know has Windows, I can be relatively sure that he hears the same sound that I do, but that's not the case, when I upload it for a broader audience.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Bio on June 19, 2017, 01:14:56 pm
VST is a software interface, with both synthesizer and effect plugins produced. As such, a lot depends on the actual plugin itself.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: GenericArrangements on June 20, 2017, 06:49:58 am
I think, if I got that correctly, that there are also such things as samples and soundfonts, that can also be used to make music, not just synthesized sound. Should I use those as well?
If you want certain sounds, it might be better to get soundfonts. I haven't yet stumbled into the world of VSTs, but I am aware that they are very different. Best idea is to just get both and mess around with both until you find what you like. It's all about experimenting.

What worries me is that some of the more complex formatting that I used in my midis didn't import into LMMS correctly; it probably doesn't support all of the so-called flags or events.
Yeah, that's normal. I tried importing a pitch-bend, and it literally crashed. I suggest you only put the notes in, and edit all other effects in the DAW itself. It's easier in the long run, and gives more freedom.

Windows Media Player
I thought this was clear enough. My fault for not elaborating more on MIDIs. I just thought it wasn't really necessary, considering you're moving away from them (as individual sound files). MIDIs are just a series of notes and simple techniques, and so use the sounds of what's actually playing them, which is why your Android phone made it sound different. Also Macs are not capable of playing them at all without external software, mainly because of the file-type (possibly because of a lack of pre-installed sounds too, but I don't actually know about that). Either way, MIDIs are still not good forms to release content as, when they're the main feature.
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Z_A on June 21, 2017, 05:19:24 pm
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considering you're moving away from them (as individual sound files)
No, really, I think I'll still be using midi a lot, at least to input most of the unaltered notes. Piano roll is just too inconvenient for the task.

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MIDIs are just a series of notes and simple techniques, and so use the sounds of what's actually playing them, which is why your Android phone made it sound different.
I know that ^^ I've actually been using this format for years already, but I started trying to arrange Touhou stuff only a little more than a year ago. One of the best things about midi, even to this day, is that it's pretty much universal. Most of the software that has something to do with music also has a means to interpret midi, making it almost as portable as such things get.

With all your help, I might finally be ready to post one of my arrangements soon. Because, well, I really need some feedback. While I don't think they are utterly awful, there is always room for improvement, right? I'm still not sure where to upload it. Would you recommend something?
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: GenericArrangements on June 22, 2017, 06:29:15 am
No, really, I think I'll still be using midi a lot, at least to input most of the unaltered notes. Piano roll is just too inconvenient for the task.
I completely agree, to be honest. I use MuseScore and export/import MIDIs to external software, because I prefer the manuscript interface. I just meant the use of them as the actual content.

I know that ^^ I've actually been using this format for years already, but I started trying to arrange Touhou stuff only a little more than a year ago. One of the best things about midi, even to this day, is that it's pretty much universal. Most of the software that has something to do with music also has a means to interpret midi, making it almost as portable as such things get.
MP3s and WAVs are also very universal, and manage to keep playback consistent, although the good thing about MIDIs is how easy they are to make, as well as their small size.

With all your help, I might finally be ready to post one of my arrangements soon. Because, well, I really need some feedback. While I don't think they are utterly awful, there is always room for improvement, right? I'm still not sure where to upload it. Would you recommend something?
I use SoundCloud, but after you upload a certain amount of music it becomes a paid service. It lasts quite a bit though. If you can make some kind of a thumbnail, YouTube is another option, although I'd wait until you're confident for that one (it doesn't really matter, just my personal opinion).
Title: Re: Art Tips Thread II
Post by: Z_A on June 22, 2017, 07:27:27 am
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YouTube is another option
Yeah... er, no. I mean, Youtube is full of trolls, I'm not ready for THAT kind of public attention. SoundCloud should probably be fine, thank you!