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There is murder and mayhem in MotK Town once more. Looks like those crazy Mafia Goons are at it again!
Rules
-Town must lynch (no majority = random lynch)
- Scum must kill
- Everyone must post at least once every 24 hours, standard modkill warning system applied, inactivity modkills will flip at end of day
- Days will last 72 hours (3 days), nights 24 hours
- No extensions
- No editing posts
- Votes must have ## in front and be bolded (EG: ##Vote Kitten4u)
- Play to win
- Don't be lame
- Parties with private communication (e.g. scum) may communicate at any time
- Don't quote any private communications (role PMs, questions you asked the mod etc.). Paraphrasing is fine. If you're unsure if you're paraphrase comes to close to quoting ask a mod.
- You cannot talk about the game outside the thread
Playerlist (Bold has confirmed)
2.) huh what
8.) Serela
11.) Hero999
12.) JOB
Dead
9.) ActionDan Vanilla Townie was lynched D1
7.) Schezo Vanilla Townie was killed N1
13.) Shadoweh Vanilla Townie was lynched D2
5.) Omba Vanilla Townie was killed N2
10.) PX Mafia Goon was lynched D3
6.) Pesco Vanilla Townie was killed N3
1.) Dormio Vanilla Townie was lynched D4
3.) BT Vanilla Townie was killed N4
4.) Bardiche Mafia Goon was lynched D5
Useful links
End of D1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728935.html#msg728935)
End of D2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg731316.html#msg731316)
End of D3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg733473.html#msg733473)
End of D4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg734199.html#msg734199)
End of D5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg734257.html#msg734257)
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Confirming in a locked thread :V
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All role PMs are out. Game will start once people have confirmed.
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Confirmed
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/confirm!!!!!!!
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CONFNFMIRMRMMM
or something
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@Conq: I know you're reading this.
FROSTIES.
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Guys I think Kitten4u is a lying bastard mod.
What is this weird green color in my post?!
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/suck blood
/confirm
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Same bloody mess every day all day.
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So it's time for this huh?
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Confirmed.
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1. Confirm
2. Profirm
3. ???
4. Profit
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Also for the next five (in real life) days (Thursday-Monday), expect quite minimal content from me... or whatever I can get away with past ~10-30 min of time. (I'll make those MS guys proud!)
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/confirm
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Alright, I suppose that's enough people confirmed. D1 starts now!
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (0):
PX (0):
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: Dormio, huh what, BT, Bardiche, Omba, Pesco, Schezo, Serela, ActionDan, PX, Hero999, JOB, Shadoweh
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
D1 ends on October 8 at 10 PM EDT (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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##Vote Shadoweh
Need I say more?
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##Vote Dormio
Dormio D1 quicklynch go.
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##Vote: Shadoweh
At worst she's flipping yellow. :V
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The itsy bitsy spider crawled up the water spout
Down came the rain, and washed the spider out
Out came the sun, and dried up all the rain
And the itsy bitsy spider crawled up the spout again
##Vote:Serela
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@Serela: Your avatar is freaking scary. Like holy shit what is that crap.
##Vote Serela
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*whistle*
##Shoot Shadoweh
##Vote Dormio
Did I win?
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##Vote: Pesco
Only witches scum escape from burning fires. :V
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##Vote Pesco
VOTE OR DIE!
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Posting to say I wasn't confirming because I just woke up.
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##Vote PX
tl;dr PXa is scum for doing some really scummy shit so let's lynch him.
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PX, even.
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Question: Wtf are you doing up at 3 in the morning?
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Posting in mafia, because
there was a power outage and I wasn't able to get online at all during the past 10 or so hours I've lost control of my life.
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But it's not 4A- Holy crap it's 4AM where you guys live.
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That leaves a question for PX and huh what, where's my chocolate pudding?
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Well my reply is bandwagons.
Because RVS needs more of those.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
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Oh actually I forgot about DST again and it's actually 3AM for you two, belay that pudding... for now.
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It's 3 in the morning, not 4. But still close enough to make the obvious joke. <_<
Also, is PXa in actually in PST? I never realized this.
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I've always been in PST. Except for that week I spent in the ocean.
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Dormio (1): JOB
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (2): Omba, ActionDan
Schezo (0):
Serela (2): Serela, Hero999
ActionDan (0):
PX (1): huh what
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Dormio, Schezo, PX
Not Voting: BT, Bardiche, Pesco, Shadoweh
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~63 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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Timezones are really annoying. :colbert:
It's only 9:30PM here.
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Why'd yah have to make so much noise...its still early for me...
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##Unvote
##Vote pesco
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It is now 4AM for PX and huhwhat. I demand chocolate pudding.
##Unvote
##Vote PX, huh what
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Vote pesco instead.
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(http://www.cdkitchen.com/images/cats/f,836,cat-836-200-1,Chocolate-Pudding-Recipes.jpg)
THERE
Speaking of which, you guys content with making more noise or can we get more (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/images/avatars/avatar_2167_1316314112.gif)
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Who said you could use my avatar?
##Unvote
##Vote PX
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After looking at that pic of chocolate pudding I am really hungry for some melted chocolate.
:colbert:
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##Vote: Shadoweh
We're getting our Shadoweh D1 quickwagon after all? I approve.
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Ssssllllooowwww... Someone claim miller alr- oh wait, vanilla. W/e.
##Unvote
Serela: Nice self-vote there. Why did you do that?
Dormio: I don't think you can vote two people at once. Why do?
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Well, you can only claim Town or Scum here, Omba. :P Which, clearly, it's me, I'm the scum!
Why not join our Shadoweh wagon, Omba?
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>:(
I haven't been able to post for over 12 hours. Where the hell are my content cases? What is this chocolate pudding nonsense?! Why haven't I ben quicklynched yet as a third party?!
##Vote: Dormio
YOU'RE the noisiest one of these clowns. I blame this entire wasted line of conversation on you. Stop trying to feed everyone and find the scums! My partner is getting restless! Since Kittan4me said it was okay, she mentioned earlier the normal setup for this game has 2 scum in it, so we'll have all kinds of time to lynch down the list and kill the towniest looking people, ignoring the scum as they lurk to victory.
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Since Kittan4me said it was okay, she mentioned earlier the normal setup for this game has 2 scum in it,
Mod confirm this pls
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Bardiche: I was satisfied with doing just one lolrvs vote. And I preferred using that on Pesco because RtD luck.
Shadoweh: Please clarify which parts of your post, if any, are serious.
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Two scum and eleven non-scum would be kind of stupid, just saying.
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You fail to take into account ~*~MotK Town~*~
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##Schezo
You sound scummy now.
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##Vote Schezo
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@Pesco: Is that a real vote? ... Probably not
@Shadoweh: Wtf?! If that is true, I'm gonna have some problems with a certain scientific kitten
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##Unvote
##Vote Schezo
Posting nothing but one line of MotKTown hate right when shit is starting to get kind of serious is pretty lame. Feels a little like he's trying not to stand out or get into fights.
Also not liking Shadoweh telling Dormio to scumhunt when his last post was at a point where everything that had been posted was a joke. <_< Seems more silly than scummy, though.
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@Shadoweh: Wtf?! If that is true, I'm gonna have some problems with a certain scientific kitten
Why problems? 2 scum 11 town just means we can mislynch four times or so before LYLO. I can only see it as problematic if you are, in fact, scum.
So PX. Are you scum?
Bardiche: I was satisfied with doing just one lolrvs vote. And I preferred using that on Pesco because RtD luck.
Early wagons are a great way of getting debate... normally. Of course, we've since entered serious votes stage, so I guess I'll replace mine with a vote for grounds of voting.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Why share the information on two scum (for that matter, why even ask K4u about the number of scum?) and then do absolutely nothing with that knowledge bar suggesting we lynch the towniest people?
Also lol @ "Dormio go scumhunt".
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So PX. Are you scum?
You got me.
No, but my problem is not with the two scum 11 townies, it's more the fact that THE MOD TOLD ONE SPECIFIC PLAYER THE SET UP INSTEAD OF EVERYONE ELSE.
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As I said in the topic, I am using the normal ratios for this game. That is all I can say on the matter.
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I only have one mode when it comes to mafia. All Serious, all the time.
Oh my god it took me an hour to find it again. Here (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Mountainous) is where the ratios are from. I did ask if this should be common knowledge before /inning to the game, hence sharing immediately. Mountainous, the normal ratio is in fact, 11 town and 2 scum. Recall in a normal game we would have at least a cop and a doctor moving those numbers to our side. In Mountainous all we have is our townie prediction ability.
Bard: I have done something with it. To annoy you further I'll ask why as scum I would share this information at all.
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Attempt to sidedance the issue noted. I asked why you would do nothing with the knowledge bar pointing out we should lynch the towniest looking people. If you've done something else with it, do tell.
"To annoy further" should not be the goal of this game.
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No, but my problem is not with the two scum 11 townies, it's more the fact that THE MOD TOLD ONE SPECIFIC PLAYER THE SET UP INSTEAD OF EVERYONE ELSE.
Valid point. If K4u did indeed tell Shadoweh and now avoids telling us publicly, either Shadoweh is getting favoured, Shadoweh lied about K4u telling her or Shadoweh is scum.
"Why would I share it as scum?" is WIFOM, and using that as a defence is poor.
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EBWOP: To clarify the "Shadoweh is scum" point: if there are two scum in this game and nothing more, then it stands to reason scum would be aware of this knowledge.
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Dormio (1): Shadoweh
huh what (1): Dormio
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (1): ActionDan
Schezo (2): Pesco, huh what
Serela (2): Serela, Hero999
ActionDan (0):
PX (1): JOB
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Schezo, PX, Bardiche
Not Voting: BT, Omba
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~55 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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Quad posting is Townie. I can't find anything from K4u in the sign-up thread or this thread stating that it should be common knowledge to know the ratio of Town:Scum, and question why you would even ask for the number of scum AND get a response from K4u, even though she refuses to respond to us now.
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Does it really matter what the scum ratio for Vanilla Wafiers is? We're going to know by the time we reach LYLO anyway. I can see further dwelling on this going nowhere fast and making D1 a pain to re-read. Trying to discern Shadoweh's alignment from her foreknowledge is outguessing the mod, which is dumb.
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After some discussion with someone outside the game I've decided to confirm that this game is indeed Mountainous.
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If she really were scum, what kind of good idea would mentioning the ratio and lying that she got it from the host (all intentional from the start) be? I hope I don't have to explain why this is illogical.
I'm not ruling out the possibility, I'm just saying that this isn't a good thing to base a lynch off of.
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Host = mod. I need to get used to that, I guess.
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@Shadoweh: Modcleared, for correct information, therefore not lying.
@huh what: ...For what reason did you ask [Blank] to vote Pesco?
It was empty. With nothing to clear it.
@Dormio+PX : I must ask, is there a reason for you two to have talked about pudding?
@Serela: I know I did not ask early, but I also need to ask why you voted yourself.
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I'm confused why Bard thinks I asked her privately. <.<; She mentioned it on IRC, and it's available if you search for vanilla mafia on the wiki, it's why she considered it public knowledge in the first place. Your attack is pretty much what I expected actually, from an upset townie. See, good information already.
Huh whatty, it matters because it means scum are vastly outnumbered and for at least this day will get a marginal say on what we do. As odd as that is, today is the best day for us, as a town, to make our own townie lynching decision.
BT, since you've said before you have some mafia experience, I'll ask what your take on everyone that's posted so far is and expect you to answer. This is introduction to the group time, don't be shy. We all bite. ..Wait.
Hero, if I'd been claiming what I had as scum, the mod would have had to tell everyone anyways just to clear up the confusion. It's not suposed to be a secret. ^^;
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Hero, (Villian isn't as catchy)
Could you explain to me how Shadoweh is Modcleared? What if she's just being "helpful" scum?
I do think that going out of her way like that is something I could see myself doing as town.
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To clarify, I what I mean by modcleared is the information about # of scum.
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There's not really much to warrant a full "comment on everyone" post at this point. Hell, I think the only thing that even mildly caught my eye was the whole mess around the ratio. I think Bard might have been a bit TOO accusing (a bit too much), but that's no grounds for lynching either, as it could have easily just been an honest belief that Shadoweh's scum.
And no, Shadoweh has not been modcleared. All the mod interference did was prove that she was telling the truth about this whole ratio thing, nothing more. I GUESS you could conclude that, because she even asked the mod, she didn't know the ratio and therefore isn't scum, but that might just be assuming too much. Although, if we have to cling to it in the future, I guess I wouldn't oppose.
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By the way, yeah, I'm experienced in mafia, but I think this is my third(?) NOC game, so don't think I'm some kind of expert. ?_?
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Valid point. If K4u did indeed tell Shadoweh and now avoids telling us publicly, either Shadoweh is getting favoured, Shadoweh lied about K4u telling her or Shadoweh is scum.
I agree with this enough to policy lynch Shadoweh at LyLo. And I want the mod to confirm the exact numbers. As far as the rest of this goes, it's a null tell on day 1.
Hero your clear of Shadoweh is Tbax-bad.
Still think Schezo is scum. Mindhax and that he's coasting.
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Alright, I'll state it even more clearly
I do not believe Shadoweh to be modcleared.
I believe the information about # of scum to be mod cleared.
@BT: I feel as if your just throwing things out but not really considering them to be possible. Is there a reason for this other then lack of content around?
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RE: Hero: It was RVS past midnight and I was bored and wanted to try to make something happen. Don't think it matters at this point.
RE: Shadoweh: I'm not saying it's something you shouldn't have brought up, just that it's not worth dwelling on to the extent people have been doing. Our goal is still to lynch scum regardless of how many there are.
Schezo is still the only person who bugs me right now. Everybody else is just kind of squabbling. I think we should talk less until more people have contributed, because in this set-up it's pretty easy for scum to coast through a noisy D1 by not having a large presence.
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Yes, there hasn't exactly been a lot going on up to now, so I was noting possibilities with or without believing them.
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People who asked:I voted myself because for the past few days I've been in an unstable state of mind and I was just like "My jokevote... it must go on me." It was just a thing my mind said must happen.
My mind also said I had to recite The Itsy Bitsy Spider. I wasn't exactly thinking clearly!
But anyway, with some mental endeavors to control my line of thought today away from the issues plaguing me, at the moment I'm in a normal (For me) point again! So time for sum MAFIERS.
##unvote
I'd be okay setting my vote on Schezo for the moment for, as people have said, coasting. I'd try to do a little more then blatantly say exactly what other people said about him but that's sort of impossible. :V
My mind is telling me, though, to vote Bardiche. It's because of all his going after the Shadoweh because of the shenanigans this game has been hooked on for a little while. Logic part of my mind tells me it makes sense for town to do this, but my gut says "nooooo this is something to look at blah blah blah".
If I try to combine the logic with the gut I come up with "Scum seeing this as a good opporitunity to push a Shadoweh lynch without actually having to scumhunt". I don't know if the logic part of my brain agrees with this 100% yet but, seeing as the only other thing I have to go on at the moment would be "Schezo is coasting", I think this is good enough for an ED1 vote.
##Vote Bardiche
My personal opinion on Shadoweh is I don't want to let this shenanigan stuff be included in my opinion of her at all and therefore I have no opinion of her yet.
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I do think that going out of her way like that is something I could see myself doing as town.
Which makes scum also likely to do that as well because it's seen as being a town action, so all this is just going to WIFOM territory.
EDIT: Cut by 3 people??? Could have sworn I hit post....
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BT, day 1 doesn't allow you to relax with your options. We're getting close to 24 hours off and we still haven't gotten far. It would be much better using your vote and getting people to talk. Like Schezo.
##Unvote
##Vote: Schezo
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Yes, let's jump that wagon...
##Vote PX
What exactly do you want to hear from Schezo / why do you want to specifically get him to talk? There's a few other players that haven't posted since he did and unlike him, they're currently getting less or no flak at all, so I'd assume there's a reason. Given that you didn't think it likely Pesco's initial vote on Schezo was serious, I'd further assume you at that point didn't see anything of note in Schezo's post that preceded it. And Schezo hasn't made any new posts since then, so... Why the vote now?
---
Answerstuff in like 2 hours.
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I'm awake, I'm awake.
I only have one mode when it comes to mafia. All Drunk. all the time.
Anyway.
Bard: I have done something with it. To annoy you further I'll ask why as scum I would share this information at all.
I love waking up to some delicious WIFOM.
I GUESS you could conclude that, because she even asked the mod, she didn't know the ratio and therefore isn't scum, but that might just be assuming too much. Although, if we have to cling to it in the future, I guess I wouldn't oppose.
But then I have to vwondre wath the ehll this is.
##Unvote]
##Vote BT[/b[
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I'm awake, I'm awake. And now typing properly.
I only have one mode when it comes to mafia. All Drunk. all the time.
Anyway.
Bard: I have done something with it. To annoy you further I'll ask why as scum I would share this information at all.
I love waking up to some delicious WIFOM.
I GUESS you could conclude that, because she even asked the mod, she didn't know the ratio and therefore isn't scum, but that might just be assuming too much. Although, if we have to cling to it in the future, I guess I wouldn't oppose.
But then I have to wonder what the hell this is.
##Unvote
##Vote BT
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Are you lynching me because I'm bad at wording things? Or because I implied something I wasn't aware of?
If it's the former: Basically, if that convo existed (which the mod might have just proved), then we know that Shadoweh was genuinely clueless about the ratio, w
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...which means that she's not scum because she would otherwise know about the ratio.
Don't know how that got cut off.
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To expand on what I said: I dislike both Shadoweh and BT right now.
Shadoweh is doing this thing where she's posting but not really adding any content.
You accuse me of generating noise when you pull this weird setup crap.
As for BT, BT is also doing that thing where he doesn't make any cases, instead arguing about the things that Shadoweh brought up.
In addition, he defends Shadoweh as shown in that quote I put in the earlier post.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
And cut by BT doing that thing where he defends Shadoweh once more.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
And again. Why do all you people insist on giving me this WIFOM in the morning?
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Well, what's wrong with making clear a possible modclearing? If it makes me look like scum, sure, I can just let it slide next time.
And like I said earlier, I don't play traditional mafia a lot, so I wouldn't necessarily know if I'm acting scummy or not. And I don't know what "making any cases" means.
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Who do you think is scum, and why? :D
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Like I *tried* saying earlier, I don't think there's enough content for me to have someone in mind. Might also be a result of not playing a lot of traditional mafia.
So no, I don't have anyone in mind. I'm up for the usual "make people talk and see if something happens" routine.
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Stuff has happened though, you're still getting nothing from it?
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Nope. :(
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Dormio (1): Shadoweh
huh what (0):
BT (1): Dormio
Bardiche (0): Serela
Omba (0):
Pesco (1): ActionDan
Schezo (3): Pesco, huh what, PX
Serela (1): Hero999
ActionDan (0):
PX (2): JOB, Omba
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (2): Schezo, Bardiche
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~52 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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I like you Omba.
I like your vote too!
##Unvote
##Vote PX
PX feels like he rolled scum (again) finally.
Besides Omba, I feel alright with Huhwhat, but no where near as close as Omba.
Not sure why Pesco attached the word "coasting" to his Schezo vote when Schezo made 2 posts, otherwise I comprehend the rest. Huhwhat's use of the word is more suitable.
Making a note here: Small associative tell between Pesco/Schezo; If one is scum I would clear the other.
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I like you Omba.
I like your vote too!
##Unvote
##Vote PX
PX feels like he rolled scum (again) finally.
Besides Omba, I feel alright with Huhwhat, but no where near as close as Omba.
Not sure why Pesco attached the word "coasting" to his Schezo vote when Schezo made 2 posts, otherwise I comprehend the rest. Huhwhat's use of the word is more suitable.
Making a note here: Small associative tell between Pesco/Schezo; If one is scum I would clear the other.
This is a curious post. Omba made a good post to vote PX with, but you didn't. That you'd tack on 'PX feels like scum' instead of 'I agree with Omba because...' indicates much more of a opportunist behaviour here.
I consider Schezo coasting because he hasn't made a comment on the mod-confirmation debacle when he has been able to. What makes HW's use of it more suitable when I'm the one that introduced it? If I or Schezo flip scum, the other is clear. Pray tell what happens when one of us flips town? Auto-lynch the other?
In short your shit is too dry to stick when you fling it.
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##Unvote
##Vote Actiondan
I have extremely bad feelings when someone is buddying up with someone so quickly in the game.
(cough lambda cough UK cough)
Anything other then feelings? I do not like how you say you feel he rolled scum without any kind of explanation.
I also do not like how you believe Huhwhat's use of coasting to be much better then Pesco's use of coasting. Elaborate?
I also do not like your note. The fact that you will clear one person if the other flips is setting them up.
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What most people call WIFOM is just something confusing happening that they'd rather dismiss then consider. I forgive you for not wanting to trust me since you're town, Bardy. <3 What do you think of Pescorz?
Thinking BT sounds a little confused to be scum.. pondering possible inexperience/uncommunicativeness of partner to counter-balance. Still coming up slightly towned. Just decide for yourself which of those possibilities you think is more likely, trust your gut and go from there.
There's something about Pesco's post that sends alarm bells ringing, but I'm not sure which part it is. Saying you want a policy lynch doesn't actually tell us what you think about the whole mess. 'Null tell' my behind. You didn't get a read off of anyone out of that? Demanding more mod conformation is just noise at this point. It makes you sound outraged and offended while not playing the game.
Hero999 sounds really frustrated that no one is understanding the point he's trying to get across. Cool, he's town too. Better change your name buddy.
Omba cut me with exactly my thoughts on PX's vote. Also probing and trying to ask genuine-feeling questions during the early phase. Townie here.
PX, do you really have nothing better to do then a lurker prod? You're one of the people dodging commenting by saying WIFOM and it doesn't sit right combined with a 'talk moar' vote.
Dormio.. this is giving me weird deja vu to MRM. Talking about Jerky and pudding. Do you think I suceeded in pushing us out of RVS? RVS banter is the kind of noise YOU were making. Do you think BT is my baby scum partner or are we likely apart? I will set you more nelly.
So, so far Bardiche, Hero999 and Omba are town, with a possible BT town. Pesco is getting the eye of suspicion, PX reads PX and Schezo doesn't exist. I'd say something about it being natural but Schezo should post again instead. Lynching a null-to-scum Lurker Day 1 would be just so ~novel~ I could get behind it if the people on him weren't making me twitch. Maybe that'll change. The day, she is still early. My vote, she screams to go where my GUT! feels something is out of place. Also I've been cut something like 21 times. SHUTUP ALL OF YOU.
##Unvote
##Vote: Pesco
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Sober up before you press post.
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Dormio appears to be going for the easy attacks (newbieness, stuff that he can discredit as WIFOM) rather than trying to find scum intent, which doesn't look good to me. Additionally, he last line of Dan's post is quick to jump to conclusions and has some nasty implications of lining up lynches. The rest of his post didn't really bug me, but I'm wary of him.
I think PX is voting the "right" wagon for the wrong reasons, but I don't think he's scum. Everyone else just seems silly. Want to hear Schezo post some content
pesco, while you're responding to Dan, what do you actually think about PX's Schezo vote itself?
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Votepark. But definitely not a bus.
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Shit on a stick, captains, what the hell is going on here?
If I try to combine the logic with the gut I come up with "Scum seeing this as a good opporitunity to push a Shadoweh lynch without actually having to scumhunt".
Clearly I voted Shadoweh because I felt throwing in information, then sitting back and doing nothing with it was scummy. Pay attention, my vote on her isn't "Lol Shadoweh knows more OMG", it's "Shadoweh provides information and does jack shit with it". Why, again, is this lazy behaviour that doesn't express scumhunting, and why is it worse than "Schezo is coasting" (your words not mine)? (?･ω･`)
As far as "Schezo is coasting omg" goes, it's rather a null tell to me. The most blatant way to avoid saying anything about anything invites nothing but WIFOM, although I agree Schezo needs to produce content beyond dissing MoTK Town.
BT is fencesitting and he needs to come out and produce SOLID OPINIONS beyond just "well this COULD be the case". If Shadoweh was unsure of the numbers and yet claimed she was certain there are 2 scum, then she deserves to get the shit lynched out of her for lying as Town, or because she's Scum. No ifs, buts or whats about it. Who is scum, BT?
Dan's "PX feels like he rolled scum" needs to be made substantial and fast. It's past jokevotes stage, son, we're not permitting "lol GUT!" as your only reasoning! Why does PX feel like he finally rolled scum, and why are you already tying Schezo/Pesco together?
Similarly dislike PX's "we should get people to talk" while saying NOTHING at all.
Oh christ you're all scum again. Why do you do this?!
As far as my thoughts on Pesco go Shadoweh, he's Pesco, I have no idea what the hell he's doing but it's not pinging up in a bright red dot for me.
Shadoweh's recent content is good, so I'm letting off on her. PX, however, has less good content and I'm unhappy with the vote for Schezo to talk when so far PX's contributions have been, "I has PROBLEMS with mod telling Shadoweh about setup". Does that make you think she's scum, yes or no?
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
Don't demand others to "say more" when you yourself have been saying nothing of value.
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Hmm, my aura is coming out already?
It does feel strange that HW's case seems to be asking me to elaborate on something serious when he wrote it off himself as "silly."
I do not however like the people flinging "Schezo is lurkan" when I made my last post... 5 hours ago? Really? This feels more like an easy way for scum to push me and bandwagon early.
So the main offender in this is PX, in his 81 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727382.html#msg727382). With no original reasoning. Nice.
Dan blows PX out of the water though.
In his 94 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727445.html#msg727445) he gets to:
Gut PX which is not provable and can be placed on anyone. There is no explanation behind this. He goes on to write off crap on a person who said the exact same thing. Pesco gets scrutiny and HW doesn't when they made pretty much the exact same case on me. He tops off his wonderful post by throwing pairings around in early day 1 over....? what exactly.
Because Pesco made a case on me?
##Unvote:
##Vote: Action Dan
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Goddammit I deleted my first line.
Before HW. line This goes:
I initally wrote Shadoweh's post off as not serious and it didn't register that there was a mod confirmed thing there. I messed up it's scummy.
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I am perfectly sober you rascally rabbit. -.- (oh god more deja vu.) Here, let me highlight the part that addresses you so you can find it better.
There's something about Pesco's post that sends alarm bells ringing, but I'm not sure which part it is. Saying you want a policy lynch doesn't actually tell us what you think about the whole mess. 'Null tell' my behind. You didn't get a read off of anyone out of that? Demanding more mod conformation is just noise at this point. It makes you sound outraged and offended while not playing the game.
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The null tell is on you. I didn't bold the call for mod confirmation, so I wasn't going to ask for something I knew the mod would no longer give.
How about you tell me why you're not voting for scum?
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ITT Schezo thinks the "always paraphrase, never quote" applies to everyone's stuff, not just the mod's. It's a good idea to point out where you got your ideas from when you're not the first one to post them. Or at least somehow acknowledge that they're not originally yours. That would kind of make your post seem to have less actual new content in it, though. Oh.
It's a good way to avoid blatantly jumping a wagon with borrowed reasoning, though. Just start a new one with borrowed reasoning, it'll look a lot better. Oh. :V
It does feel strange that HW's case seems to be asking me to elaborate on something serious when he wrote it off himself as "silly."
Bad kind-of-defense. Not what he actually said, he never limited "things starting to get kind of serious" to the one specific aspect he called silly.
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Personally I found nothing before Shadoweh's post serious, so yeah it's why I'm finding it strange.
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So since you think there was at that point nothing serious besides the part of Shadoweh's post HW called silly, HW's case seems strange to you because... he saw something serious where you didn't?
Then there's that small part where you did comment on an issue that obviously was serious, even if you were to think the part of Shadoweh's post it originated from was not serious. And your comment on that was pretty damn fluffy. Which you got called out for.
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Yes, I didn't think it was serious so I made a fluff post.
However things were picking up, so we're back to: "Schezo fucked up"
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Durrrrrr... :V
You forgot the part where someone asked the fucking mod to confirm it, three posts above yours. Why would you completely disregard something at least one other person considered serious?
And two posts above yours is me asking Shadoweh if she's serious. That's two people thinking of it as a serious issue.
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In addition, if you didn't think it was serious, but people taking it seriously talked about it, why didn't you ask them why they took it seriously?
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It wasn't a serious issue to me until we got either Mod info back or Shadoweh responded. Neither of these happened. I could have just went, "yeah what she said" and made noise. But I didn't and for not acknowledging that I am getting scrutiny for it. Ah well.
-
Actually let me try to clear up my thought process in this when I made that post.
I mulled over a few options and chose the lesser of the evils, (so I thought)
I could lurk
I could parrot your serious request
I could treat it as if nothing serious had happened at that point
And since there was no feedback at that point, no there wasn't anything serious going on to me, so I chose the third.
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There's three things you can do in RVS: post nothing, go lolrvs, or try to end RVS by starting serious discussion.
Guess which of these three looks scummy when other people already chose the third option. Not seeing any actual drive to find scum from you there.
More importantly, not seeing any in your posts after this, either.
##Unvote
##Vote Schezo
--cut by... Oh great. Now you're basically calling yourself scum. :V
You know why? You chose "post something just to post something", you even admit it. Why is "post something for the heck of it" the lesser evil for you at that point of the game?
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Responding to you now makes me not trying to make my scum picks?
And I do believe I have explained that track of logic.
You had already asked a question asking for serious correspondence. What good would it do me to repeat that question? Nothing. You had already asked for the serious response that could be garnered from that point, I didn't want to repeat it.
So why do I look scummy for continuing where "people already chose the third option" when there was, again no responses from serious questions to work with, because they had already done it?
It's like you're literally encouraging me to parrot you or lurk; don't make an offhand remark after 1 sided srs mode began. Why is this?
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Responding to you now makes me not trying to make my scum picks?
That's not it. I see no drive to find scum in your responses. The reasoning you provide for what you did does not sound town-motivated.
And the post I already called you out on doesn't, either.
You had already asked a question asking for serious correspondence. What good would it do me to repeat that question? Nothing. You had already asked for the serious response that could be garnered from that point, I didn't want to repeat it.
So why do I look scummy for continuing where "people already chose the third option" when there was, again no responses from serious questions to work with, because they had already done it?
It's like you're literally encouraging me to parrot you or lurk; don't make an offhand remark after 1 sided srs mode began. Why is this?
If you're not seeing anything that looks serious to you and hasn't been adressed yet, you could try finding something. Ask people about reasons for non-serious stuff they did, for example. Non-serious posts can have serious reasons behind them. And if they don't, you'll still get an answer that either yields something interesting, or can result in an interesting reaction from someone else. The point is: You preferred continuing the fluff over serious debate. Serious debate is good for town, fluff is better for scum than for town. Town needs content to work with. I shouldn't even have to be this verbose about that because this is so basic stuff.
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I need to start waking up earlier than 11AM.
Posting to say I'm here, another post should come soon.
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Oh yeah I forgot this.
## Unvote
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Okay, lets get down to business shall we?
With all this noise going on it's been very hard to get a clear read. But there have been a couple of people who have stood out to me. And they just happen to be some of the main noise creators. Namely Bardiche and Shadoweh.
Shadoweh I don't have much on, other than the fact that she deliberately used WIFOM to defend herself. Only scum would use WIFOM to defend, right? I'm pretty sure townies would rather defend with solid defenses instead.
Bardiche on the other hand, My opinions aren't the most original, but I think they still hold. Bardiche created a lot of noise by repeatedly going after Shadoweh and her modconfirm (for number of scum). In my opinion, that's a null tell. All we ever needed to clear this up was just a modconfirm that the ratio was indeed correct. But Bardiche had to drag it out longer than what was needed. He looks extremely town on the exterior, but I think he's hiding something on the inside.
##Vote Bardiche
@Shadoweh: Did you explicitly ask the ratio of town/scum on IRC or had K4U posted it by herself?
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@Mod: Could we get another votecount please?
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JOB: Generally, don't make "I'm here" posts unless you're either a) confirming or b) your presence is specifically needed (to secure a lynch before the day ends, for example). Other reasons are possible, but I'm not seeing one here.
Sooo... Other stuff.
ActionDan: It's nice that you like me. It's not so nice that you follow that up with things that make me hate you. That wagon jump somehow seems familiar... oh, right, PX already did that. Considering you read my post where I voted PX for what he did and even agreed with it so much you went on to vote PX, too, it seems a little strange to just go ahead and follow in his footsteps. 3rd on the wagon is scum is bullshit, so please don't try to make it into an actual tell by confirming to it. :V
Don't think I have anything further to add to what Pesco said to you for now.
--cut by JOB
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JOB, what alternatives were there other than to press Shadoweh? Since you chide me for it, surely you have some alternative. What else was suspicious? You say Shadoweh uses WIFOM in one breath and in the other condemn me for voting her, parts of which were that she was invoking WIFOM and throwing info in without doing anything with it but look. I don't get your case.
Omba's latest argument against Schezo feels like, "Go reach for something to pick at, anything!", which isn't necessarily Townie. Why do you feel Schezo should've done his best to stretch something he felt wasn't at all suspicious or serious?
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Alright,
Show me. What parts don't sound town motivated. I want to see it, please quote it.
If you're not seeing anything that looks serious to you and hasn't been adressed yet, you could try finding something. Ask people about reasons for non-serious stuff they did, for example. Non-serious posts can have serious reasons behind them. And if they don't, you'll still get an answer that either yields something interesting, or can result in an interesting reaction from someone else. The point is: You preferred continuing the fluff over serious debate. Serious debate is good for town, fluff is better for scum than for town. Town needs content to work with. I shouldn't even have to be this verbose about that because this is so basic stuff.
It's like a fucking marry-go-round.
You asked the most reasonable question to pursue out of pudding nonsense or Shadoweh's mod thing. I was waiting for that Shadoweh one. Gracious fuck.
I thought this 1 on 1 we had could be townxtown but there is seriously something wrong with how you're taking what I tell you. It's almost like you've made up your mind on what you think of me before I answer. I honestly think you're scum leading up an elaborate vote on me so you don't look like you're bandwagoning and there's two posts you just made that make me feel this way.
In the post you vote me in, 114 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727539.html#msg727539) these lines don't flow with what you've been saying and just seem to me to be a buff to your case on me that you can just tack on.
Not seeing any actual drive to find scum from you there.
More importantly, not seeing any in your posts after this, either.
It doesn't fit and makes me wary with how you've been talking to me.
Then you go ahead with the post you just made (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727582.html#msg727582) and do the same things you just called me out on (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727520.html#msg727520). Are you kidding me? Fuck. It's even about the same person. You seriously are encouraging people to beat stuff over the head with a stick, knock it down and stomp on it aren't you?
##Unvote:
##Vote: Omba
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@Bardiche: Did you ever give an example of what Shadoweh could do? Not that I know of. Surely the mod comfirmation was enough information of what Shadoweh was saying? I see it as a null tell, and nothing else. And as I said the only reason I suspect Shadoweh at all is for creating a bit of noise and direct use of WIFOM in defending herself. I never comdemned you for voting her, I only said that I didn't like that way you kept on pushing she was scum through the fact that she knew the ratio of town to scum.
Cut by Schezor
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Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Dormio
Bardiche (2): Serela, JOB
Omba (1): Schezo
Pesco (1): Shadoweh
Schezo (4): Pesco, huh what, PX, Omba
Serela (0):
ActionDan (1): Hero999
PX (2): ActionDan, Bardiche
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~47 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
I will only post one votecount per page unless an absurd amount of time has passed (read 8+ hours).
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Omba's latest argument against Schezo feels like, "Go reach for something to pick at, anything!", which isn't necessarily Townie. Why do you feel Schezo should've done his best to stretch something he felt wasn't at all suspicious or serious?
Asking a question can be done without implicitly attacking the one questioned. I didn't say he should have attacked anyone if he didn't see anything that appeared suspicious to him.
I did say he should have tried to find something worth asking about if he didn't have anything he wanted to add to the current issues.
Reasons are as I explained: If he asks, the answer might contain something suspicious. Or it might not, but someone might react to the answer in a suspicious way (for example, by trying to attack someone just to attack someone). Or some other form of serious content might result from it. Either way, asking can lead to content that Town can use to find scum, even if the thing initially questioned is completely innocuous.
Point is: What I'm looking for here is motivation to find scum. If he had that, he should have searched for ways to find scum when he thought the direct way (i.e. serious questions regarding or analysis of serious/suspicious content) wasn't available to him.
Reason why: Suppose everyone's RVS post was "Keine told me to vote X, so there" and nothing more. What do?
Considering this, if you have time to make a post, use it to do something useful. If you don't, don't make a post. Lolrvs is ok as long as we're actually in RVS. Adding non-serious stuff to serious stuff is fine, too. But just posting fluff when other people have started to get serious does nothing but make you have a post sitting there, telling people "hey guys, I posted something, I'm not lurking". Further elaboration needed?
--cut by Schezo and more stuff. One moment please.
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Omba can you answer this question too please.
It's like you're literally encouraging me to parrot you or lurk; don't make an offhand remark after 1 sided srs mode began. Why is this?
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Alright,
Show me. What parts don't sound town motivated. I want to see it, please quote it.
You realize I've been pointing that out for a while now, right? Right? W/e, here you go
You fail to take into account ~*~MotK Town~*~
1 - The post that initally got you under fire. The not town motivated part is the "hello, I'm fluff" one.
2 - Most of this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727474.html#msg727474), as I already stated here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727520.html#msg727520).
Actually let me try to clear up my thought process in this when I made that post.
I mulled over a few options and chose the lesser of the evils, (so I thought)
I could lurk
I could parrot your serious request
I could treat it as if nothing serious had happened at that point
And since there was no feedback at that point, no there wasn't anything serious going on to me, so I chose the third.
3 - This. What you say here is that you opted to post just so you could post (you deemed posting fluff the lesser evil compared to posting nothing).
I wouldn't damn you for 3 alone, which is why I didn't vote you at that point. Combined with the post linked in 2, however...
I thought this 1 on 1 we had could be townxtown but there is seriously something wrong with how you're taking what I tell you. It's almost like you've made up your mind on what you think of me before I answer. I honestly think you're scum leading up an elaborate vote on me so you don't look like you're bandwagoning and there's two posts you just made that make me feel this way.
I'm not going into this with the assumption you're scum. I'm just bashing anything bashworthy you say until you either stop saying bashworthy things or die. It's that easy.
In the post you vote me in, 114 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727539.html#msg727539) these lines don't flow with what you've been saying and just seem to me to be a buff to your case on me that you can just tack on.It doesn't fit and makes me wary with how you've been talking to me.
Durrr... :V
What do you get when after picking something apart, there's nothing left? Right, a lack of something. These lines are not tacked on, they're the conclusion I've reached from the posts you made and the answers you gave me.
Then you go ahead with the post you just made (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727582.html#msg727582) and do the same things you just called me out on (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727520.html#msg727520). Are you kidding me? Fuck. It's even about the same person. You seriously are encouraging people to beat stuff over the head with a stick, knock it down and stomp on it aren't you?
... Seriously? You're not seeing the difference between a) your only content post consisting mostly of things that have already been stated by others, just reworded and without any attribution to the original source and b) making a comment with a bit of added stuff and referring to the original source; while that comment is only a little part of the whole content made by the person? You do notice you used your post in question to get your vote on someone, while I made a comment in passing between the other stuff I was writing about, right? Hell, if you thought ActionDan was the most suspicious person and you really had absolutely nothing further you could add to the case or ask him, great, happens, vote the one you find most suspicious, it's what you should do. It won't be as bad if you make up for it by searching for other interesting things you can add to anything. You didn't. Hence you get the big stick.
Omba can you answer this question too please.
I already did when I indirectly stated that the assumption you're making here is false. You're making it sound like those were the only two other options you had. Which is not the case.
I said do something useful. If nothing useful is immediately apparent, try to think of something. You can't go claiming miller in a vanilla game, but it's not like you have to take measures that drastic.
Actually, just read my answer to Bardiche directly above your post.
Side note: You had no issues with basically parroting Pesco to get the chance to vote anything. I don't know why you would have a bigger problem with doing that at the end of RVS. Well, there's some possible explanations for it but that's not the point here.
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Oh, right. If you take that "bashing until" comment to be my whole modus operandi and make assumptions based on that, I will mukyu in a way so terrifying you will die.
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So no, I don't have anyone in mind. I'm up for the usual "make people talk and see if something happens" routine.
You say you're up for it, but I'm not seeing you actually follow through on your words. Where exactly have you even attempted to make someone talk so far?
How do you want to go about making people talk?
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Dormio: What did you think of PX at that point (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727407.html#msg727407), compared to the people you mentioned in your posts?
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Why share the information on two scum (for that matter, why even ask K4u about the number of scum?) and then do absolutely nothing with that knowledge bar suggesting we lynch the towniest people?
Name one thing Shadoweh could have done with the information besides sharing it, please.
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I just lost a 5.5 hour game... Piece Sacs, how do they work!
I skimmed/glanced most of Schezo/Omba and Omba looks as green as town kiro.
I see Schezo post a lot. I think that means he's town. no jokes.
The only thing that gets muddled in your back and forthes are your scum reads. Although each of you have earned a special place in each others hearts, it would be nice to reiterate your spum picks. No reasoning required. I remember Schezo thought I was me and Px were scummy yes?
Omba, where do me and Px fall for you? Since you dislike us both.
@Stuff that's been asked of me:
Huhwhat warned of scum "coasting" D1. That is a better use of the word than using it to say a player is "coasting" within the first 24 hours of D1 based on 2 posts.
As for Px, I agreed with Omba's earlier case. I also think Px is playing differently than usual. If I had to give words to my feelings, I'd say Px is trying too hard to invoke his random anti-town town meta by forcing "bandwaggons" down our throats instaead of actually caring much for trying to vote scum
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Huh whatty, it matters because it means scum are vastly outnumbered and for at least this day will get a marginal say on what we do. As odd as that is, today is the best day for us, as a town, to make our own townie lynching decision.
What is this reasoning. Just like every other D1, we start out with exactly no information about any of the players, no flips, no nothing. And to top it off, we have a lower scum:town ratio, which means a lynch based on a small amount of content has a higher chance of hitting a townie. We do have more town input compared to scum input, but I don't see how on D1 that outweighs the negatives to a degree that would make you sound so elated about this. Less scum is a good thing for town. But what the hell this reasoning.
Not exactly liking your Pesco vote. What specifically makes him seem scummy enough to you to vote him over everyone else? Please elaborate on your case.
Villain999: Can't believe I overlooked this. Anything new on anyone that is not ActionDan and/or hasn't already been stated?
--cut by ActionDan
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I see Schezo post a lot. I think that means he's town. no jokes.
Why? Most of his posts are dedicated to answering what I said to/about him. Reacting to that would be a good course of action regardless of his alignment. That wasn't something he could just sit out by avoiding the issue, especially considering he already had a wagon on him, not just my vote.
The only thing that gets muddled in your back and forthes are your scum reads. Although each of you have earned a special place in each others hearts, it would be nice to reiterate your spum picks. No reasoning required. I remember Schezo thought I was me and Px were scummy yes?
Omba, where do me and Px fall for you? Since you dislike us both.
Would currently like to brutally murder the most: Schezo.
Would want to blow up all together: PX, ActionDan, Villain999; if necessary, starting from the leftmost one. Order could easily change, I don't have much content from any of these three to go off.
No idea what to do with: JOB, Serela, BT. Haven't stared at their posts enough yet.
That leads me to a question: What are your scum picks, apart from PX?
Huhwhat warned of scum "coasting" D1. That is a better use of the word than using it to say a player is "coasting" within the first 24 hours of D1 based on 2 posts.
So what do you think of Schezo's fluff post and his explanation for it?
As for Px, I agreed with Omba's earlier case. I also think Px is playing differently than usual. If I had to give words to my feelings, I'd say Px is trying too hard to invoke his random anti-town town meta by forcing "bandwaggons" down our throats instaead of actually caring much for trying to vote scum
That sounds logical. It's also completely useless on D1 and especially so with the small amount of posts he has made so far.
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POST SOMETHING
Call me a huge coward. But yeah, I'll do my best to fix this from this point onward.
Opinion on the Bardiche-Shadoweh incident: Unless someone convinces me otherwise, the mod proved the conversation about the ratio to be true, so I tend to believe that Shadoweh is town. Yes, there's a chance that this is all a set-up, but since you people want me to drop my reasons for "not going with my gut" and just plain go with my gut, that's what I'll be doing. About Bardiche, I do agree that the prolonged argument about the ratio was a bit non-town-like, but I don't think it was TOO long like some others noted. I really do think that Bardiche was doing it out of town-ish concerns and stopped a bit too late, so: town.
The only thing that really caught my eye up to now was this:
Making a note here: Small associative tell between Pesco/Schezo; If one is scum I would clear the other.
Like others have noted before, this is an extremely bad idea for the town to follow 99% of the time, so unless ActionDan somehow forgot this fact and thought it was a good idea to post this, I would go for him as my scum pick.
That is, then there's Omba's and Schezo's incident. At first I thought (and still think) that Schezo's "non-serious" post was, just that, a non-serious but harmless post that wouldn't immediately put a huge "scum" tag on him. Through the convo Omba had with him, though, I kind of got convinced. Schezo's posts after that seemed to continue the tradition of not helping the town at all, something I now believe to be important.
But for the sake of not accidentally pushing for majority,
##Vote ActionDan
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It wasn't a serious issue to me until we got either Mod info back or Shadoweh responded. Neither of these happened. I could have just went, "yeah what she said" and made noise. But I didn't and for not acknowledging that I am getting scrutiny for it. Ah well.
I pointed out your coasting when I felt there was more than enough time after mod and Shadoweh response. If you could have confirmed or moved your vote at that time, it wouldn't be noise and you'd give us a reaction to gauge.
I mulled over a few options and chose the lesser of the evils, (so I thought)
I could lurk
I could parrot your serious request
I could treat it as if nothing serious had happened at that point
And since there was no feedback at that point, no there wasn't anything serious going on to me, so I chose the third.
How is this third option you chose different from the first option, given that your visible action was to not post anything?
Bardiche on the other hand, My opinions aren't the most original, but I think they still hold. Bardiche created a lot of noise by repeatedly going after Shadoweh and her modconfirm (for number of scum). In my opinion, that's a null tell. All we ever needed to clear this up was just a modconfirm that the ratio was indeed correct. But Bardiche had to drag it out longer than what was needed. He looks extremely town on the exterior, but I think he's hiding something on the inside.
##Vote Bardiche
Why are you voting on a null-tell. Why are you voting someone that you think looks town? If you think he's hiding something, explain it because you're just voting someone for being town now.
Then you go ahead with the post you just made (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727582.html#msg727582) and do the same things you just called me out on (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727520.html#msg727520). Are you kidding me? Fuck. It's even about the same person. You seriously are encouraging people to beat stuff over the head with a stick, knock it down and stomp on it aren't you?
##Unvote:
##Vote: Omba
You'd have to do better than that if you want to OMGUS. Put Omba aside for a moment and tell me about Dan and PX.
Huhwhat warned of scum "coasting" D1. That is a better use of the word than using it to say a player is "coasting" within the first 24 hours of D1 based on 2 posts.
As for Px, I agreed with Omba's earlier case. I also think Px is playing differently than usual. If I had to give words to my feelings, I'd say Px is trying too hard to invoke his random anti-town town meta by forcing "bandwaggons" down our throats instaead of actually caring much for trying to vote scum
What the heck are you even saying here? Use sentences that contain ONE subject, ONE verb and ONE object please.
> PX playing differently from usual
> PX invoking his meta
Logic error...
But for the sake of not accidentally pushing for majority,
##Vote ActionDan
How would you feel about a Schezo lynch?
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If I would be willing to "put my gut on something", it'd be on one of ActionDan or Schezo, so I have no problem changing my vote to the other. There's still plenty of time left though, no need to push for majority this early.
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What is it about having a clear majority this early that puts you off?
Shadoweh's last posts on an ISO reread sound terrible. Like Wrathie-terrible.
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@Pesco: The reason I voted him wasn't because Bardiche is being town, it was because of him dragging out the Shadoweh modconfirm in scum numbers. Did you yourself think that a modconfirm was all that was needed to end the discussion on that matter? I know I did. I think he has some hidden motive that is probably anti-town. So he kept on attacking Shadoweh because she was an easy target.
Also I'm not really liking Omba's attitude towards Schezo. He keeps relentlessly attacking Schezo for not doing scumhunting, but I don't think Omba has any other real scum suspects
other than Schezo. Surely if you were scumhunting you would have more suspects, right? It's like scum is going for an easy target while not paying much attention to the rest of the game. Then with your latest 7(I think) posts, you appear to be all over the place, responding to several people and asking questions to others. I seriously have no real idea who you acually suspect other than Schezo.
Just saying this:Would currently like to brutally murder the most: Schezo.
Would want to blow up all together: PX, ActionDan, Villain999; if necessary, starting from the leftmost one. Order could easily change, I don't have much content from any of these three to go off.
No idea what to do with: JOB, Serela, BT. Haven't stared at their posts enough yet.
Does not cut it. You've stated your possible scumpicks, but you haven't stated your reasons. I can't be sure if you really suspect them or not if you don't say why *hint* *hint*.
This is enough for me to warrant a vote.
##Unvote
##Vote Omba
@Schezo: Who are your top three scumpicks and why?
Cut two times.
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I'd normally say "so that someone doesn't stealth the lynch" but I keep forgetting that doing this in a 2-scum game is suicidal (on their part, obviously). So yeah, I guess I don't have a clear problem, aside from the fact pushing for majority early instinctively makes me worry.
If it means so much to you, I can change my vote. It shouldn't be a big deal to begin with, though.
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How is Omba worse than Bardiche now?
@BT: you don't need to change right now since I think a Dan lynch is viable today. So long as your stances are clear.
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I think he just wants him to explain his behavior, rather than suspecting that he's scum.
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It's always better to vote scum than prod maybes.
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Tunneling. Which is obviously scummier than what I had pinned Bardiche for.
@Omba:I just noticed that Action Dan said that you didn't have to put reasoning in with your scumpicks, so you're excused for not giving reasons there, but I would still like some reasons from you now.
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I think he just wants him to explain his behavior, rather than suspecting that he's scum.
I'm pretty sure some magical person somewhere said that answering questions directed at other people wasn't a good thing to do.
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@Schezo: If I go by meta, then I'm quite sure your scum due to you being reserved, and supposedly "kind".
I'm okay with your lynch, due to you defending only with no kind of scum hunting shown in it.
Why exactly was the 3rd choice out of the other 2 a better idea?
Dismissing the conversation when there was multiple input on the same topic made it serious. By dismissing the discussion is dismissing serious content.
@Actiondan: Your logic is completely misplaced. How exactly does changing a play style make that person scum?
Your attacking someone because they are acting different from their usual actions.
Is there really a difference considering huhwhat is just stating it, as Pesco is accusing it?
You also have not explained your reason of setting up Pesco/Schezo.
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I did that thing where I left things until the last second that they were due because lolDotS and forgot that mafia existed.
Anyway!
Dormio: What did you think of PX at that point (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727407.html#msg727407), compared to the people you mentioned in your posts?
Neutral, still is.
I think I actually dislike ActionDan more.
BT, what do you think about Shadoweh right now?
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
ActionDan #133: No other comments about anything that Schezo has said? Really? Just going to go "posts a lot" and clear him for that reason alone?
Basically, Dan seems to be doing, uh, nothing. His only case is on PX for ED1 stuff. Do you have no thoughts about the rest of the game?
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BT, what do you think about Shadoweh right now?
Town, unless I get convinced that the ratio thing was a set-up.
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>Votecount
D1 looks like a choice between me and Schezo. I haven't read Schezo's posts fully (I skimmed, along with Omba's) aside from his case post on me and PX. He reads like
sailor moon. I happen to think that Schezo isn't doing the usual "scumhunting" because he's divesting all his time into Omba's barrages of posts. In my experience it's hard to refrain
from getting sucked in to this kind dialogue, when you are expected to "answer everything!" If I have to, I will switch, in typical not-me over me fashion, but I am no where near sold
on Schezo and I don't like his lynch.
Omba link the relevant posts for me to read that you feel are fluffly and I'll get back to you on that.
As far as scumpicks go, I fell quite good about PX as scum still. I am getting wary of BT and Dormio for sneaking onto my wagon, with BT voting me for thinking that "if one of Pesco/Schezo scum ==> the other is town"
and Dormio's anger at me for simply going "Schezo posts a lot ===> town." I did expect anger because I couldn't care less when I typed that, but it doesn't tell me why Dormio thinks I'm scum.
With two scum in the game, I don't understand why people are dying to hear MULTIPLE suspects from people as if fewer = scummier. I have town reads on Omba and Job, and to a lesser extext, Hw, and I am leaning town on Pesco too.
(Also for some reason, I can't word wrap [words I type are moving off screen and I can't see], anyway to fix this?)
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O ya. The Pesco/Schezo aren't scum together. DWI
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You said you got wary of me and then explained why I voted for you, but... without explaining why you're wary of me. If I did something wrong by voting you, or if my logic is bad, feel free to tell me.
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I think your reason is weak. You are voting me solely for "if one of Pesco/Schezo scum ===> the other is town, A.k.a they aren't scum together"? Tell me if this is not the case. Also you can update your case if you want.
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Guess I thought you were implying that "if one of them is town--> the other is town", which is usually a set-up. That's why I voted, not because I think they both might be scum or something. If that's the case...
##Unvote
##Vote Schezo
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**if one of them is town--> the other is scum
whoops
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I happen to think that Schezo isn't doing the usual "scumhunting" because he's divesting all his time into Omba's barrages of posts. In my experience it's hard to refrain
from getting sucked in to this kind dialogue, when you are expected to "answer everything!"
I thought this all along too. I just couldn't put it into words.
I too thought that what you said about Pesco/Schezo scum implied (or explicitly stated, I forget) that if one was town, then we should lynch the other. But that neccesarily isn't always the case, as they could both be town.
In my personal opinion I think Schezo is leaning town and I'm not too sure of Pesco yet.
And about multiple suspects, no matter how many scum there are it's always good to have multiple suspects if any of them turn out to be town.
Oh, and I forgot to clarify that I actually do think Omba could be scum.
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By the way, I'll be away for the next 24 hours, I'll answer any questions when I get back.
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Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (1): Serela
Omba (2): Schezo, JOB
Pesco (1): Shadoweh
Schezo (5): Pesco, huh what, PX, Omba, BT
Serela (0):
ActionDan (2): Hero999, Dormio
PX (2): ActionDan, Bardiche
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting:
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~33 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
Schezo is at L-2!
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Opinion on the Bardiche-Shadoweh incident: Unless someone convinces me otherwise, the mod proved the conversation about the ratio to be true, so I tend to believe that Shadoweh is town. Yes, there's a chance that this is all a set-up, but since you people want me to drop my reasons for "not going with my gut" and just plain go with my gut, that's what I'll be doing. About Bardiche, I do agree that the prolonged argument about the ratio was a bit non-town-like, but I don't think it was TOO long like some others noted. I really do think that Bardiche was doing it out of town-ish concerns and stopped a bit too late, so: town.
Town, unless I get convinced that the ratio thing was a set-up.
What. What does any of that have to do with Shadoweh being town or not. That she told us about the setup doesn't tell us anything about her alignment, unless maybe if she lied, which she didn't.
Lolwaffle on Bardiche. So it was kind of non-town-like, but you think he did it out of a townie tought process? Why was it non-town-like when you don't think it was too long? What exactly was non-town-like about it?
@Pesco: The reason I voted him wasn't because Bardiche is being town, it was because of him dragging out the Shadoweh modconfirm in scum numbers. Did you yourself think that a modconfirm was all that was needed to end the discussion on that matter? I know I did. I think he has some hidden motive that is probably anti-town. So he kept on attacking Shadoweh because she was an easy target.
How is asking probing questions indicative of being anti-town? That's like completely backwards and only makes sense if you already assume Bardiche is scum beforehand.
Also I'm not really liking Omba's attitude towards Schezo. He keeps relentlessly attacking Schezo for not doing scumhunting, but I don't think Omba has any other real scum suspects
other than Schezo. Surely if you were scumhunting you would have more suspects, right? It's like scum is going for an easy target while not paying much attention to the rest of the game. Then with your latest 7(I think) posts, you appear to be all over the place, responding to several people and asking questions to others. I seriously have no real idea who you acually suspect other than Schezo.
Just saying this: Does not cut it. You've stated your possible scumpicks, but you haven't stated your reasons. I can't be sure if you really suspect them or not if you don't say why *hint* *hint*.
This is enough for me to warrant a vote.
Are you kidding me? Did you actually read my posts? W/e, reasons in short.
PX: I made a fucking case on him here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727405.html#msg727405) and voted him for it, he hasn't posted anything since. Guess what my reason for naming him as a scumpick is.
ActionDan: Comment on him here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727582.html#msg727582) and agreed with what Pesco already bashed him for, so refer to Pesco's post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727448.html#msg727448) for more reasons.
Villain999: Pulled the same stunt as Schezo, only he chose to directly go for parroting instead of fluff. Compare this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727449.html#msg727449) of his with Pesco's directly above it. Tell me what's new. Then consider that that's most of what he'd done up to that point apart from a few questions about RVS, all but one of which had already been asked by others (this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727329.html#msg727329): the one to serela is a repeat of mine; pudding stuff already asked by Shadoweh; question to huh what was new) and talking the setup stuff. It's nice that he at least somehow tried to actually ask questions, but it shouldn't have been limited to one fucking short post about RVS stuff and one more with a little probing to BT. Still the one of the three I want to lynch the least.
Tunneling. Which is obviously scummier than what I had pinned Bardiche for.
:V :V :V
Yeeessssss, I tunneled so much the light at the end of the tunnel got scared and ran away. Now I'm stuck in this tunnel and everything is black. I'll be forced to tunnel forever.
Except for the part where I fucking bash 3 other people apart from Schezo and ask questions to more people still. How the hell is this tunneling? Because I preferred to answer whatever Schezo said to me before I got to other people? Uh, yes, that makes so much sense. Oh wait it doesn't.
Will get to the stuff on page 6 next.
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Name one thing Shadoweh could have done with the information besides sharing it, please.
If you mean "besides sharing it and suggesting we lynch the towniest people", then I'd say use it at a later juncture when scum tries to pull 3-scum-teams after one of their members get lynched, making Town look for a phantom scum. Does that sate your curiousity?
Did you ever give an example of what Shadoweh could do? Not that I know of. Surely the mod comfirmation was enough information of what Shadoweh was saying?
See above for the first, and for the second part... I guess this is due to me being vague with words. I'll do my best to clarify. When I said this:
I voted Shadoweh because I felt throwing in information, then sitting back and doing nothing with it was scummy. Pay attention, my vote on her isn't "Lol Shadoweh knows more OMG", it's "Shadoweh provides information and does jack shit with it".
I actually meant I voted Shadoweh because I felt throwing in information, then sitting back and doing nothing with it was scummy. Pay attention, my vote on her isn't "Lol Shadoweh knows more OMG", it's "Shadoweh provides information and does jack shit with it".
The distinction is vague and-- no, sorry, I can't keep this up. Why are you pushing the idea that I'm voting Shadoweh for knowing more when that wasn't the thing I pressed her for, and why do you pretend voting her and demanding explanations is the same as chiding someone for a specific course of action when there were no better alternatives available? I've answered your questions, I'd like to hear what else was on the table at the time.
BT still does this thing where he's fencesitting and not taking strong to a conviction. Offering to change votes multiple times, cheerleading the Schezo wagon until chided for not voting his top scum pick and then voting Schezo based on GUT! isn't something I like, and I can already tell this game will involve me headdesking a lot due to the copious amounts of green-coloured scum. That is to say I think BT's just newbiederping but not being scummy right now.
I did say he should have tried to find something worth asking about if he didn't have anything he wanted to add to the current issues.
If Schezo couldn't find anything, does your case then change? Is he still scum for prioritising making his presence known over simply lurking?
Tunneling. Which is obviously scummier than what I had pinned Bardiche for.
You're voting Omba for tunneling after he made a wall of posts responding to everyone else and pointing at things? Really?
Dormio, are you seriously voting Dan for having a singular case on PX while you had up till then a singular case on BT?
Christ you all are scum, and I still dislike PX for keeping up his LURK LURK LURK SAY NOTHING OF VALUE for this long but I cannot stick to Lynch Lurkers this early in the game, can I? Can't have my cake, right?
People I like: Pesco, Omba
Everyone else: shades of grey or scum, I'm not sure which.
And of all people, I dislike Dormio most now.
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
You vote Dan for not having an opinion on the rest of the game or what Schezo posted. You yourself have had no such opinion either. By your own standards you are scum, and bandwagon hopping scum to boot. Care to clarify what you think about others not named BT or ActionDan? Similarly dislike the excuse for lurking. Lol DotS and forgetting Mafia exists indeed.
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How is asking probing questions indicative of being anti-town?
PX: I made a fucking case on him here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727405.html#msg727405) and voted him for it, he hasn't posted anything since. Guess what my reason for naming him as a scumpick is.
ActionDan: Comment on him here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727582.html#msg727582) and agreed with what Pesco already bashed him for, so refer to Pesco's post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727448.html#msg727448) for more reasons.
Villain999: Pulled the same stunt as Schezo, only he chose to directly go for parroting instead of fluff. Compare this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727449.html#msg727449) of his with Pesco's directly above it. Tell me what's new. Then consider that that's most of what he'd done up to that point apart from a few questions about RVS, all but one of which had already been asked by others (this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727329.html#msg727329): the one to serela is a repeat of mine; pudding stuff already asked by Shadoweh; question to huh what was new) and talking the setup stuff. It's nice that he at least somehow tried to actually ask questions, but it shouldn't have been limited to one fucking short post about RVS stuff and one more with a little probing to BT. Still the one of the three I want to lynch the least.
I never said I voted Bard for probing questions. I only said I voted him for dragging out that discussion for longer than needed.
I completely forgot about the PX case, sorry. I can give you that as a good case.
Nice Action Dan case btw, oh wait that was meant for Pesco. You only really added like one bit of information. Try adding a little bit more into the mix to see what you can make. With that last sentence, it seems as if you wanted to elaborate further but didn't have anything to go on. Perhaps now would be a good time to try?
Hero999(because Hero is much more catchy than Villian): Okay, I see what your views are on him. They make sense to me, I'll give you that.
You still look suspicious in my eyes though, so if I were you, I would try and make that better. (and be a little less aggressive too)
@Bardiche: Did you think that the mod confirmation on the setup was enough to dismiss that matter?
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Postin to say that yesterday I felt like complete shit, what with 2 hours of sleep and morning class after staying up all night to write a paper :|
I'm rested now and ready to post! After my next class, so I'll be back in maybe 2 hours :|
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Yeah, you just scared me away, no duties I had to take care of. GJ
Omba's 128 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727639.html#msg727639) case on me:
1. fine
2. How does hypocrisy feel?
Then you go ahead with the post you just made (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727582.html#msg727582) and do the same things you just called me out on (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727520.html#msg727520).
Your response to my request:
Durrr... :V
What do you get when after picking something apart, there's nothing left? Right, a lack of something. These lines are not tacked on, they're the conclusion I've reached from the posts you made and the answers you gave me.
I didn't know stopping to answer your questions was scummy, especially when NO ONE HAD FUCKING POSTED on our spat at that time.
Again, let's go back to this quote
It's like a fucking marry-go-round.
I mostly was waiting on HW to get his bitchass in here and weigh in on what he thought of our 1v1 earlier, being that he was instumental to getting my wagon going and everything but no, he's content to just lurklurklurk lurk this shit out. Did I want to go back and make content on people after I already posted and dear God get called for backtracking. No, not when our 1 on 1 was going because I wanted to form a more solid opinion on people, and what they thought of our thing, since it's one of the most serious and drawn out things that has happened all day. A few have posted about it now let's get to that in a sec.
... Seriously? You're not seeing the difference between a) your only content post consisting mostly of things that have already been stated by others, just reworded and without any attribution to the original source and b) making a comment with a bit of added stuff and referring to the original source; while that comment is only a little part of the whole content made by the person? You do notice you used your post in question to get your vote on someone, while I made a comment in passing between the other stuff I was writing about, right? Hell, if you thought ActionDan was the most suspicious person and you really had absolutely nothing further you could add to the case or ask him, great, happens, vote the one you find most suspicious, it's what you should do. It won't be as bad if you make up for it by searching for other interesting things you can add to anything. You didn't. Hence you get the big stick.
No, look at your entire 121 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727582.html#msg727582) and tell me it's not just copied. The only thing you added was an advice remark to Job and Dan, and that's it. What it's fine now since Pesco said it and you give him credit? Then what in the fuck is the point if you're reposting JUST to make so fucking noise?
Argh, the reason it's driving me up the wall is that your case on me is built on "Schezo made noise and nothing else" and then you proceed to make a post that mirrors this and screams hypocrisy to my ears. It's why it's bothering me so much that your backing it up.
I already did when I indirectly stated that the assumption you're making here is false. You're making it sound like those were the only two other options you had. Which is not the case.
I said do something useful. If nothing useful is immediately apparent, try to think of something. You can't go claiming miller in a vanilla game, but it's not like you have to take measures that drastic.
Actually, just read my answer to Bardiche directly above your post.
Side note: You had no issues with basically parroting Pesco to get the chance to vote anything. I don't know why you would have a bigger problem with doing that at the end of RVS. Well, there's some possible explanations for it but that's not the point here.
This is why I was adamant about you quoting where you're pulling your facts from. I'm not going to read between the lines just to get an indirect answer that you can claim false on. I want a straight one. For this:
No, that was the case you presented on me and what I could do:
-Force something on someone when I didn't find anything not already said to pursue
-lurk
I kid you fucking not that's what you did. And now I have your direct answer that you did indeed.
So, in your response to Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727615.html#msg727615) that you told me to look at, I think I've garnered what you're doing that making me insane.
I taking from this, you're only looking at the logical aspects of the game and it has to be cut and dry, townie does this scum does that. I don't think you're taking into account grey areas and exceptions which are always bound to come up in this game.
I look faulty in all ways on paper. I was thinking your engagement with me earlier was just a prod to try and see my emotional side and if that was scum or not.
So I've drawn from this that you either aren't taking emotions into account and writing up the black and white case that's easy to see or you find me fraudulent.
Anyways the omgus on you was heat of passion even if I deplore your reasoning.
##Unvote:
I'm going to get this out there and post the scumz reads like now.
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BT wants me to break his face in or something "Sup gaiz, Putan Schezo at L-2 with no explaining and won't be back to answer questions until tomorrow"
Yes please I want you to explain this even if it's 20 or something hours from now.
Action Dan:
What on Earth are you talking about?
We're only halfway into the day and you're already setting up a not me over me thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727830.html#msg727830). What? And I want to know where this town read on HW is coming from since he's been content to lurk his the fuck out of all the current drama going on.
Dormio there is so much fucking disconnect in your 148 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727830.html#msg727830), one suspect post, that I'm ready to kill you now. What do you think of everything else that's happened?
Villain999: What are you on?
First, if you're convinced I'm scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727802.html#msg727802) why are you just cheerleading me on instead of FOSing or voting me (which would have been appropriate) at the time you take potshots at me? It's stronger that the stuff you're throwing on Dan. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727449.html#msg727449) ("Bad feelings" as opposed to "I'm quite sure you're scum")
This is not taking into account that your meta case is a bunch of BS and your "he ain't tryan" just tacked on parroting.
And here's the answer to the question you would already have answered if you would read what I write:
It's like a fucking marry-go-round.
You asked the most reasonable question to pursue out of pudding nonsense or Shadoweh's mod thing. I was waiting for that Shadoweh one. Gracious fuck.
##Vote: Villlain999
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##Vote: Villain999
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Why vote twice? I'm sure you meant to unvote instead.
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##Vote: Villlain999
##Vote: Villain999
Nope, misspelled his name in my first vote.
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Making a "I'm here" post because I think time for me to get prodded was like, between fifteen minutes ago and five minutes from now.
But I'm home from school and reading up and stuff! So a real post will come soon.
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Can you morons just make the content post without making the 'I'm here' one? Do not respond to me.
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I'm missing Dan's response to my 137.
Waiting on Neo and PX's updates.
Still need to hear from HW and Shadoweh.
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A winner is me! :D
Schezo: I honestly thought I had more votes on me. I think I did have 4 at one point with your and BT's previous votes, and with 36 hours left, a 4 vs 5 bandwaggon is good enough to decide the day's lynches.. There is anti-dan sentiment floating around with Pesco and Ombadisliking me.
I will never make lurking into a scumtell ever. I refuse (it's just my way). I may factor "posting a lot ~= town" if the posts aren't bad and I see towny stuff flowing whether I agree with them or not.
Even from the small amount of posts HW has made, I get town vibes from them, which makes for a "better than neutral read."
Schezo, I like your reads, even if I'm a little biased because you dislike the people voting me. I'm waiting for a PX post, but I am amenable to lynching Dormio in particular.
I was not thrilled by Dormio's earlier questioning of BT, but at the time I had an inkling that it was hyper-agressive town Dormio. The only problem is that with Dormio's vote on me, there isn't an update of opinion of BT, as would be expected.
This is sort-of why Hero in Diablo was scummy. I think the same phenomenon is occuring here as well.
Pesco cut. Let me look over your 137 now.
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Similarly dislike the excuse for lurking. Lol DotS and forgetting Mafia exists indeed.
I said I'd be busy until the week ended, bro.
Anyway.
Why Dan is scum 101, let's reiterate edition.
#94: As Pescar says in #95, dislike how he just states that he likes Omba's vote and copies it, giving no reasoning of his own at all.
In addition, dislike how he randomly proclaims both Omba and huh what as town.
As well as the whole "if one of Pesco/Schezo are scum, the other is town".
Despite the fact that he says later in #151 that you don't necessarily need to have many suspects as there are only two scum, yet by making the statement that "if one of Pesco/Schezo are scum, the other is town", you're implying that one of them is scum without a real case.
#133: Clears Schezo based purely on activity? What?
Really, out of everything that happened there, you're going to clear Schezo based on the fact that he posted a lot in order to respond to people and leave it at that?
You even say that it sounds like Schezo is getting his priorities muddled, but you simply ignore it.
At this point, your only case is on PX for his ED1 behaviour. Nothing about the rest of the game?
#150/151/153/171: For some reason it just seems like to me that these posts accomplish nothing. It's all just Dan defending himself.
(Also for some reason, I can't word wrap [words I type are moving off screen and I can't see], anyway to fix this?)
Try refreshing the "Post reply" page a couple of times. Worked out for me and Trance.
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Perhaps clarity is needed.
PX going "bandwaggons" at every opportunity looks forced. My interpretation is that PX is trying his bestest to show town that this game he is just like usual;
he is having fun trying to create bandwaggons like he always does. The reaction he may expect from town is "Oh, that's just town PX playing for the lols."
I don't see any indication that he thinks the people he's "bandwaggoning" are scum.
This is why I think PX is likely scum.
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"Okay I'm going to post in mafia now!" "*Spends 30 minutes ranting in GoS thread*" welp
Can you morons just make the content post without making the 'I'm here' one? Do not respond to me.
I didn't want to have to get prodded ;_; Otherwise yeah I wouldn't have. Also I'm assuming the "Do not respond to me" was just like "Don't make another useless post with no content" and yeah moving on to that content now
...I'm having one of those days where I read the topic three times over and get nothing. This usually happens for me, on D1 :c Bleh. All I can think is "Gee I'd sure like to hear from PX and Huhwhat and Shadoweh.". To make this easier on myself so that I might actually come up with something, I went through and made a list of People I don't Feel Like Lynching Today (Probably for dumb reasons), People I don't Remember Having Any Sort of Opinion About, and People Who Are Lurky Plus Dormio. I'm not sure why Dormio is in the last category along with PX and Huhwhat. I guess my gut hates him. I'll go reread Dormio (again) and some of the three who are in the middle section! Maybe I'll get somewhere now.
Okay! My gut hates Dormio but I'm not sure why I would actually vote him, so. Reading Villain999 just gives me that feeling where I don't really understand what words mean anymore. And the other two people (Pesco/JOB) I decided I don't want to lynch today either.
oh and now the middle section of the list is gone and there is a "People I don't Feel Like Lynching Today" and then Huhwhat/PX/Dormio/Villian999 but I don't actually know who I want to vote because I'm not sure which I think is actually scummy, partially because two of them haven't posted in a long time and one of the others I can barely even interpret his posts for whatever reason.
This really isn't going well for me.
I'm going to take a nap and come back later after those people have posted. I feel sleepy after looking at mafia for an hour and a half. ...dear god this post is useless. :c
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^ Proof that people don't follow instructions.
Update your vote. Is Bard still scum? Would you vote one of Schezo or Dan at the moment? Is a Dormio lynch going to be viable today?
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Try refreshing the "Post reply" page a couple of times. Worked out for me and Trance.
That worked! thanks.
@Pesco, In my mind, I keep thinking you dislike me more than Schezo, even though your vote is on Schezo. Considering I think Schezo is looking town and that I have posted answering your questions, it would be nice to hear an update of opinions from you. (possibly your doing this as I type)
@Dormio
I think your case doesn't fly.. in that I don't think it's an honest to goodness case at all, but just IioA.
#94: As Pescar says in #95, dislike how he just states that he likes Omba's vote and copies it, giving no reasoning of his own at all.
In addition, dislike how he randomly proclaims both Omba and huh what as town.
As well as the whole "if one of Pesco/Schezo are scum, the other is town".
Despite the fact that he says later in #151 that you don't necessarily need to have many suspects as there are only two scum, yet by making the statement that "if one of Pesco/Schezo are scum, the other is town", you're implying that one of them is scum without a real case.
I mostly had GUT back then (and a tantalizing idea to post a la [Redacted]. Sadly that style just doesn't suit me)
that I have since put into words. You may dislike if I think people are town, but that doesn't tell me why you think I'm scum. Also I never implied one of Pesco/Schezo is scum. IF ONE IS THOUGH, THEN THE OTHER IS CLEAR. Why? Because Scum Pesco would never call his scum buddy scum based off FPMH.
#133: Clears Schezo based purely on activity? What?
Really, out of everything that happened there, you're going to clear Schezo based on the fact that he posted a lot in order to respond to people and leave it at that?
You even say that it sounds like Schezo is getting his priorities muddled, but you simply ignore it.
At this point, your only case is on PX for his ED1 behaviour. Nothing about the rest of the game?
#150/151/153/171: For some reason it just seems like to me that these posts accomplish nothing. It's all just Dan defending himself.
Schezo posting a lot like that is a rarity. I don't see scum schezo posting like that ever, so yes, I couldn't call him scum from those posts. Schezo did get his priorites mixed up, but in a towny way, as I see it. Seriously if I said nothing about the rest of the game where is all this IioA coming from :V.
I am pretty sure people know where I stand. That is an accomplishment I'm proud to hold.
I really am not sure what to say here. Your posts conveys only what I've said or done, and not why it's scummy. Dormio, what do you think of the people I called town, especially Schezo? Do you find good reasons to not consider them town? Or is me calling people town scummy in and of itself? This is what is not clear to me in your case.
Leaving people to guess that is truely scummy because you don't put yourself out there, but rather leave others to pick up the pieces.
##Unvote
##Vote Dormio
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##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Shadoweh D1 wagon still going!
Real case: The announcing the set up is a null-tell, however, the thing that turns me off is how you tried to present it as making you Townie to everyone and throwing WIFOM at everyone. Your first real post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727452.html#msg727452) is so annoying to read that I want to lynch you just for that format. And it's mostly "X did this. Town read", which leads to fluff to make it look bigger. And her vote, she's giving off a preferred vote simply because it would be "Voting a lurker on D1", and instead going with a weird suspicious gut vote on Pesco.
Was going to say stuff on Dan after reading but looks like Dormio did that for me. And I find the case agreeable. Also, you're "Bandwagons" case on me is just wrong. This was all during the early morning RVS crap. Really? Did you expect me to give a serious answer to "That leaves a question for PX and huh what, where's my chocolate pudding?" Also, I always jump on bandwagons during RVS because that's usually how town gets out of RVS. And who ever seriously thinks their RVS bandwagon is scum before serious posts happen?! I'd still like to see Shadoweh post first before I vote you though.
Warning - while you were typing 6 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
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And I want to know where this town read on HW is coming from since he's been content to lurk his the fuck out of all the current drama going on.
Busy with school + you guys are posting way too fucking much and I can't really parse anything. I'll get stuff done eventually.
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PX confirmed for idiot.
I am disliking Dan more than Schezo. I haven't switched my vote because I don't think it's time to let off the pressure on him. Perhaps Hero and other people can respond to his vote. I want to see if anyone else shares what I'm feeling from Schezo's last move.
@HW: There's posting too much pillows and there's posting a lot of content. I'd say we've got the latter and it's a good thing.
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##Unvote
Kind of surprised that the wagon on Schezo grew so much. I personally feel that he hasn't been so bad now that he's actually posting things (read: his logic flows pretty well IMO, though I'm not sure why he dropped his Omba vote so easily). His first post did look bad early in the day but I think there's a lot of bigger stuff to worry about now that we've left the RVS.
Dislike Omba right now. The way he's attacking Schezo doesn't look like the way a townie method of pushing a case to me - he's not trying to convince other people that Schezo is scum, he's trying to convince Schezo that Schezo is scum and forcing Schezo to turtle in response. Pressuring townies into focusing only on defending themself instead of hunting scum makes sense as a scum ploy.
Dormio's obvious disconnect looks terrible to me given that I felt he was just poking at the easy stuff before he switched over to Dan. It's like he's trying to pretend his earlier opinions don't exist anymore. Dormio, how do you feel about BT and Shadoweh at this point in the day?
Currently suspicious of the manner of targeting other players that I'm seeing in Hero999's... two or so posts. <_< It doesn't look like he's trying to find scum, just that he's searching for a player who he can post a shotgun attack against to deflect all their points (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727449.html#msg727449). By doing this, he's discrediting Dan and Schezo rather than actually scumhunting in there direction. At the very least, he should explain why the people he is voting are scum instead of just nitpicking at sections of their content.
##Vote Hero999
Think he looks the least genuine of the three at the moment.
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@Schezo: You accuse me of parroting. Then please, elaborate what other points were viable options to pursue.
You practically attacking me with what Omba was attacking you for. While as your was post nonsense, I was to parrot.
Omba's massive case really does not leave us much to work with due to him already declaring every single detail.
On the meta point, I never said you were scum. I said by meta you were scum. This was something you twisted into saying I believed for sure you were scum.
As well as the fact that I remembered something about British gentlemen when scum and meaner when town.
In what way is it stronger then my case on Dan?
Which is
Bad Feelings of Buddying up, Setting up a Pesco is _____ if Schezo _____ and then dismissing it soon after he was getting fire for it.
As well as attacking someone purely because they were acting completely different.
I do not like how you only point me out on parroting when there are a few others who have also done such.
Also, your quote does not exactly explain to me why the 3rd out of the 3 choices were the best. All I see from that quote is your saying you were waiting for Shadoweh's something.
Also, In what way am I worse then Dormio supposely? You clearly state you want Dormio dead. Yet your actions say you prefer me dead.
@Huh What; What exactly are you voting me for?
What I read from your vote post is this.
Hero is specifically looking for players who he can shotgun attack.
Hero is the least genuine out of Dormio and Dan.
???
@Actiondan: What made you feel the need to post a small *NOTE* about clearing/lynching Pesco/Schezo if the other is _____.
I also need to ask why you clarified on the subject only after you had gotten fire over it.
I also want to know why you were mostly voting PX for having a change in character.
I do not like how you only invoked meta for PX but disregard everyone else's meta.
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Hero is specifically looking for players who he can shotgun attack.
This should have an implied (instead of scum) at the end of it. I'm having trouble seeing why you think the people you're attacking are scum from your posts, and it makes me think your scumhunting is faked.
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Dormio (2): Bardiche, ActionDan
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (1): Serela
Omba (1): JOB
Pesco (1): Shadoweh
Schezo (3): Pesco, Omba, BT
Serela (0):
ActionDan (2): Hero999, Dormio
PX (0):
Hero999 (2): Schezo, huh what
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (1): PX
Not Voting:
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~25 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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Then please, elaborate what other points were viable options to pursue.
Get some original opinions especially after this whole ordeal it would seem you'd learn however,
On the meta point, I never said you were scum. I said by meta you were scum. This was something you twisted into saying I believed for sure you were scum.
Then why say it and lie? It is an accusation at me being scum and you just did one of two things:
-You baited me to turn this around on me
-You are backtracking because you see the error of what you said and don't want to admit it's wrong.
I mean jeez look"I never said you were scum. I said you were scum"
can this not get any more clear?
I personally think you just did the former so you can nail a point down on me to further my lynch and I do not like that. It is scummy.
Then on your Action Dan point, you hold onto the miswording from him even after he further explained it.
Also, your quote does not exactly explain to me why the 3rd out of the 3 choices were the best. All I see from that quote is your saying you were waiting for Shadoweh's something.
And are you reading my words?
Are you really?
I don't think you are.
Go reread what Omba and I just went through and tell me, you don't understand and want your question that has already been answered, answered.
Then look back at my case:
You clearly express stronger opinions on wanting me dead, yet you voted Action Dan for a weak reason when he already explained what that meant and you're still holding that over him than the very accusing words of "quite sure your scum."
You don't throw that around if you are just going to chicken out when you get called on it and that furthers my scum read on you.
Your attempt to deflect this onto others is also noted.
I want you to tell me what that comment is? What are you going to call it:
If I go by meta, then I'm quite sure your scum due to you being reserved, and supposedly "kind".
Are you going by meta? Your post implies you are.
I do not like how you only invoked meta for PX but disregard everyone else's meta.
So please.
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/me offers draw in slightly better position on move 15 to save 5 hours of torture.
/me sees opponent take off headphones and extend hand :V
Anyone keeping score?
Anyways I'm doing a re-read. Questions, Answers, Fulfillment of base desires will have to wait!
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Just as a note for people: I have some weird superimposed curfew stopping me from internet-related activities at night right now, along with job type stuff. I'm pretty sure the deadline is when I'm home though. Reading komplete. People asking me if I specifically went to the mod and asked her the ratio of scum to town after the game started are stupid and I'm going to ignore you now.
Shadoweh I don't have much on, other than the fact that she deliberately used WIFOM to defend herself. Only scum would use WIFOM to defend, right? I'm pretty sure townies would rather defend with solid defenses instead.
You don't know me very well, do you? I will say anything I think will make other people think. Who taught you what WIFOM is, anyways?
Bardiche on the other hand, My opinions aren't the most original, but I think they still hold. Bardiche created a lot of noise by repeatedly going after Shadoweh and her modconfirm (for number of scum). In my opinion, that's a null tell. All we ever needed to clear this up was just a modconfirm that the ratio was indeed correct. But Bardiche had to drag it out longer than what was needed. He looks extremely town on the exterior, but I think he's hiding something on the inside.
##Vote Bardiche
Change Bardiche for Pesco and everything you've just said holds. Why haven't you accused Pesco of anything in your posts? You're 'not too sure of him', why? In all seriousness, am I the only one feeling like JOB's posts have content written by someone else? It feels disjointed in some posts and completely thought out in others. I don't like it.
What people are saying about Schezo being defensive is true. However, it looks like a pissed off mean town Schezo more then a scummy Scumzo. I honestly don't feel the case and question if people are just voting him because it's Schezo and he's bad at words.
I had so many more words before talking to a tech for 49 minutes. -.- I need to refresh and catchup again. Still think Omba is town, Bard is town, Pesco... might actually be town but I want to know what he thinks about Schezo's latests posts. Specifically, if he thinks they feel fake, where and why is he getting that read from in them. BT is making some placating mistakes, but still more likely to be town mistakes. Serela is being Serela. Probably town. He should sleep before making a new post. =.= I don't have a feeling either way for the rest of you that goes beyond 'seems like a guy.' that I can remember.
I'm feeling a lack of consolidation and a 24 hour mark, so looking over the votes, ohshit no prods posting
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You have more to say I take it? Sooner the better!
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You don't know me very well, do you?
Why haven't you accused Pesco of anything in your posts?
You're 'not too sure of him', why?
In all seriousness, am I the only one feeling like JOB's posts have content written by someone else? It feels disjointed in some posts and completely thought out in others. I don't like it.
I prefer to not use meta in games.
Because I don't find him actively suspicious at the moment. I'll give him a deeper reread on D2.
Because I haven't really read his posts in-depth yet. Getting onto that in D2.
Give an example of a disjointed one and a thought out one. I want to see what you mean. Because that is most likely my personality showing in mafia.
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@Bardiche: Did you think that the mod confirmation on the setup was enough to dismiss that matter?
... Right. So we're playing a different game. I have no fucking clue what mod confirmation has to do with fucking anything, and either you're acting stupid to annoy me or you just fail to read what I'm saying. I give up on you.
ヽ(；▽；)ノ Why is everyone being scummy? Why? Why do you do this? I like Schezo a whole lot more now that he's stopped dancing with Omba alone.
Dormio proceeds to ignore the very reason I'm voting him. Try the part where I ask you to produce reads on people, because so far we don't have much of anything from you.
Serela's still going ^_^ Kyaa I'm so useless, sugoi desu yooo~ =^,^= and it makes me want to policy lynch him for being useless. Good lord. Why do you people do this? Is there some kind of particular reason you enjoy doing absolutely nothing? ;_; Tooooown.
Dan using META on PESCO. ... let that sink in a for a moment. Meta on Pesco. Good lords.
Using meta at all is bad because any player who knows what his meta is will fuck with you when you try to invoke it and it's silly.
Keeping my vote on Dormio, nothing in his post that makes me feel any better about him.
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That is to say, Dan, that I'd like you not to clear people as being Scum or Town by association with ~*meta*~ because that's completely useless without more stuff to back up that person X is Town.
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ANYWAYS. Looking at the votes.. I just noticed Dan and Dormio are voting each other. Dan, how do two people sneak onto your wagon when they ARE your wagon? PX hadn't posted before you moved your vote, did you forget about him or are we facing the dreaded PX/Dormio scumteam? Eh. I'd rather lynch PX then either of them. No, not because he wants to wagon me, because I can't remember anything he's said today. It took me a minute to remember what his last post was. I -think- Dan looks better then Dormio, but when they're both green, what's the difference?
In fact, where did all the votes on PX go exactly? Can someone tell me one god damn thing he's done that's warrented the wagon on him fleeing to sink the Schezo Titanic? No, I bet you can't. Schezo is loud, Schezo gets pressured, Schezo screams like a little girl, so let's not lynch the guy who was voted for being a lurker and stopped lurking, and instead vote someone who actually is.
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
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Dan using META on PESCO. ... let that sink in a for a moment. Meta on Pesco. Good lords.
Hi5 Bard.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
I think I'm done with my vote on Schezo. The reactions are good enough and people don't seem interested anymore.
Dan's PX and Dormio votes look OMGUS when read in ISO.
I look forward to what Dan's next post can come up with.
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I chose to abandon LAL, Shadoweh.
PX's recent post is terribad though and I'm fine with going back to PX if Dormio produces answers to my question. Preferably good answers, but I'll take any answer over "lol none".
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I too would be fine wih going for PX if needed. It seems to me that he has produced nothing content wise and hasn't made much of a presence either.
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Anyone I ignore is usually because they're either neutral or town looking to me and I don't particularly care about them.
I have a lot of neutral reads right now. :V
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Oh yeah, updated read on BT/Shadoweh.
Shadoweh looks townish to me.
BT is a thing, wouldn't be willing to push for his lynch right now and would prefer to see some more content outside of the whole Shadoweh claims to know how many scum there are incident.
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Thing is, Durmio, you voted because someone didn't have reads on anyone but one person. You yourself had voted two people. Why is it scummy for said person to not have reads everywhur but you should be excused with "lol neutral everywhur"?
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Are you talking about where I voted for Dan?
Because I voted for Dan ignoring the entirety of the game at the time and going after PX purely based on ED1 (joke?) content.
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Stop the boat. Hold the train. Turn the plane around.
Hi5 Bard.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
I think I'm done with my vote on Schezo. The reactions are good enough and people don't seem interested anymore.
Dan's PX and Dormio votes look OMGUS when read in ISO.
I look forward to what Dan's next post can come up with.
Dan's PX and Dormio votes look OMGUS when read in ISO.
Dan's PX vote looks OMGUS when read in ISO
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco
##FOS: Dormio
No Wai! No Wai Man!
Px wasn't voting me, didn't express suspicion of me, and wasn't negative to me when I voted him. You just pulled that out of your ass. How could you make that mistake besides sheer laziness, and not the kind that comes from anyone besides the red colored team!
I am so not satisfied with you at all. I believe you have some sort of read of Schezo, as you claimed in #179 about his "last move" a.k.a his vote. I'd assume you should be free to share with the class since you unvoted him. Moreover your "vote" on Schezo is complete garbage. It did nothing. Absolutely nothing at all. Glad it produced reactions for you, but that's worthless if you aren't going to say anything about them. In fact your vote has been on me since #95.
THE PIE IS MINE THIS TIME!
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##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan
Dear god, that OMGUS is so bad that I'm gonna take another post to explain why it is :|
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On a semi-related note, I'm a little curious what the odds of us getting a non-Dan/Schezo lynch, given that the votes are spread out pretty wonkily and those two are basically my only town reads right now.
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First off, he didn't say it was an OMGuS, he said it looked like one. Sure, what you're saying is true in that I never voted you, but that wasn't the point he was making in the first place! And then you completely flip on him and vote him because of that mistake??? And what's the point of that second paragraph? It looks more like IIoA fluff. In short, you look like desperate scum.
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Dan lrn2read pls.
Dan's PX vote looks OMGUS when read in ISO
As in, just your post without any other posts around it and all situations leading up to it forgotten. I thought PX had attacked you at that point. Maybe he didn't. I still don't remember yet because I haven't looked. It doesn't change the facts of the time that your votes have been terrible.
My vote on Schezo sparked it going up to L-2. So it wasn't worthless or garbage. People have gotten their own reads on him out of it and I've gotten mine now. That read is that he's not worth pursuing anymore today.
@HW: why is Dan town?
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You can find a wonderful scum if you take half a glance at Villain999 and see how his name matches his actions.
How would people feel about this?
Dormio has done absolutely nothing to redeem himself, still ready to kill.
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RE: Pesco: OMGUS on you looks like something coming from town with bias against the people voting them. Overall tone of that post is that of a townie who thinks he just found a revolution.
I was a little wary of Dan earlier in the day, but have since become rather uncomfortable with the way his wagon is unfolding. He has basically been the guy who people can say "oh, this player looks kinda scummy, yeah" about on the side for the same reasons everybody else already mentioned, giving them somebody to pile onto whenever without actually having to commit to a case on him. The push against him feels rather manipulated to me, and so I do not want to see him lynched. It doesn't help that I dislike the two people at the base of his wagon.
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*revelation, not revolution
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Desperate D1 scum sure is a thing! As in a fantasy!
I'm quite prepared to die. But I will do my utmost to make sure Pesco gets lynched. His post in my eyes was the equivalence of a scum-claim. What was to "point" he was making in the first place, because I see no "point" and no comment on any content I've posted after I voted you besides "logic error" and "Vote on Dormio looks like OMGUS." Pesco has been tight-lipped this game and it's about time he starts talking. The slight town read I gave him evaporated. What you refer to as IIoA is actually important. He kept his vote on a big bandwaggon for pressure and reaction gauging, yet has nothing to say on those reactions. His vote did nothing. His content D1 is worthless.
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Pesco, stop skipping my posts. :| Where are you getting these thoughts about Schezo from? I have no way at all to track any of your thoughts. It's disconcerting for you to leave it to your readers to connect the dots themselves.
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I thought PX had attacked you at that point. Maybe he didn't. I still don't remember yet because I haven't looked. It doesn't change the facts of the time that your votes have been terrible.
So you're happy to vote me without checking something like that. times change. Why I am scum? I don't think my votes are terrible at all. Why am I scum? all I remember from you is that you attacked me after I voted PX. The rest of the day has been small prods on people that hardly got people to focus on Schezo. The only person that you influenced to talk was BT. And his vote could probably change with the wind.
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I mean, Durmio, this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727808.html#msg727808), given you yourself has made no opinion on Schezo clear that I can recall, and you yourself haven't commented on the rest of the game. It's a sneaky little votepost that avoids touching on anything except the now-increasingly-popular Dan wagon.
Until the last 12 hours, the wagons can fluctuate heavily and, even after, it can change. Stop acting as if we have "two wagons decided". Look for scum, not which of the wagons you like best, damnit. You can do that once time is running short and it's a right gamble to get the wagon to flip to anything.
Speaking of which I'm down for either a PX or a Dormio lynch at this point, because while everyone else is making *noise* and doing stuff, Dormio's done depressingly little and PX is... I don't even know what the fuck PX is doing. Are you seriously going to-- I just... what is this.
Dan is scum ONLY because of the vote on Pesco? REALLY, PX?
Ugh. Scum everywhere.
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Speaking of which, I am not down for a Schezo lynch today because he's improved beyond the Omba fuzzle and I don't really find him that scummy. I need to read the Hero nonsense to get a grasp of that wagon, and the Shadoweh vote by PX is just stupid. I don't even know why the hell he placed it and why he moved it without explanation to vote Dan for a crap reason.
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
In fact I find him worse than Dormio.
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Also "until the last 12 hours" is a general comment, not specifically aimed at Durmio. Because you know. PANIC LOL. Damnit, guise.
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No, it's combined with this case here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728021.html#msg728021)
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Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (1): Serela
Omba (1): JOB
Pesco (1): ActionDan
Schezo (2): Omba, BT
Serela (0):
ActionDan (4): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX
PX (2): Shadoweh, Bardiche
Hero999 (2): Schezo, huh what
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting:
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~22 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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I can easily consolidate unto Dormio or PX. Less so for Hero. The next time I'm available to talk is ~15-18 hours depending on how long my chess game goes (assuming a 3-6 hour game).
I can't imagine Pesco as town. All my senses scream scum.
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I might vote PX now too. He's become more scummy than Omba in my eyes.
##Unvote
##Vote PX
For reasons I mentioned earlier.
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No, it's combined with this case here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728021.html#msg728021)
Quoting someone's else case makes it better.
##Unvote
So where was I? Oh right.
##Vote: PX
What makes you think quoting someone else validates your vote? :toot: Are we not even pretending we're doing our own work now?
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Requesting Hero to restate his case on me sustinctly and tell me why I'm scum. It's hard to judge you based on your questions to me and Schezo. The ones to Schezo I can't really follow and most of them are worded like "why this and not that? Why me and not X." I'll be rereading you to see if you're playing dodgeball or not.
The questions to me are "why do this?"
Why did I feel the need to say that Pesco/Schezo are not both scum? Because I felt this way and I call things as I see it (and I still feel this way). Why did I elaborate further when pressed? Because people (including yourself) asked me too. I didn't think it was necessary to use more :words: over a small point at the time. Why do I call people town (or "buddy up" to them in your words)? Because I state what's on my mind. Usually I agree with either a case, or perhaps a post, or maybe I just like the way somebody's posts flow.
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@J.O.B: It seems that you haven't said much about the more polarizing cases today. What are your opinions on the other potential lynches right now, such as Dan?
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@Huhwhat: I'm not too sure on Dan, but I'm currently leaning town. He has said and done some scummy things but I think overall he isn't that bad.
Schezo, who was a potential lynch target, I am leaning town too. The argument between him and Omba really painted Schezo in a good light for me.
Hero999 I'm not sure of either. I'd rather have a bit more substance from him before I decide.
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Holy mother of words I'm free! FREEDOM TO WIFOM!
-Town must lynch (no majority = random lynch)
HEY GUYS GET YOUR ASSES IN HERE VOTING.
Bla bla words. Dan, there is no way a Pesco lynch is going to start up. Vote a possibility please. Is there anything about Hero you care about that isn't related to him attacking you?
Serela, same vote demand. Also exist harder. Wow you haven't changed your vote since a day ago. -.- Lazy lurker.. we aren't lynching Bardiche.
JOB, can you explain why PX is suddenly scummier then Omba to you or is this more random flying onto lynches?
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Hero999 I'm not sure of either. I'd rather have a bit more substance from him before I decide.
This is the kind of stuff that lets scum coast by with little-to-no content. It seems pretty unlikely we'll get enough substance from him for a clearer decision to be made before the day is almost over, so it's best to re-read him and decide now rather than waffling over it.
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@Shadoweh: It's more of an "Omba isn't looking as scummy now so he isn't the scuumiest to me". Omba started to look slightly less scummy to me once he replied to my questions. But PX on the other hand, I noticed his scummy behaviour originally (yet still managed to forget Omba's PX case) but I didn't want to mention it just yet, as I wanted to look further. And he kept the same scumminess throught D1 so far. As Omba went down, PX stayed the same, and so Omba went down lower than PX, making PX the scummiest player so far in my opinion.
Cut by Huhwhat.
I was planning to reread him on D2. I currently don't suspect him too much which is why I'm waiting. Since I don't think I'll probably end up voting Hero today.
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Also, RE: Shadoweh: I'll be around for deadline unless unexpected shit pops up. Would prefer to see Hero lynched but would vote PX over Dan if it came down to that.
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And if Hero ends up close enough to lynch then I would reread him before tha day ends.
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No, what the hell? Why can't you read him now and figure out an opinion about him?
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Fine. I'll do it now.
Please wait warmly~
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If there's a will, there's a way! Not buying the fact Pesco needs an ISO read of me to think my vote of PX looks like it could have been OMGUS when Pesco was the first to make a case on me precisely for that very vote. How do you forget such things? Unless you were trying to lump my Dormio and PX vote in the same basket to try to streamline a read for the masses.
Only thing I can add is that Hero does sound like Bremm. His alter-scum self. Questions for the sake of questions + lack of saying why things are scummy whilst documenting a player's actions.
I'll be here ~6ish hours before deadline. Sleeping now.
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Wow, I thought that would be longer.
Hero want a cracker? Because you're quite the parrot aren't you? I would quote all the things that aren't yours but that would probably take up too much space. Come up with your own reasons, then we'll talk.
Cut by Danno
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That's great JOB but, is Hero town after your read, or is he scum? Would you vote for him over insert person here?
I have my own thoughts after rereading but I'll hold to share them.
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Due to the large amounts of parroting, he is scum (if he parroted like 1 or 2 lines then it wouldn't matter as much). But I don't want to vote him unless he ends up being the only lynch candidate.
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My actual response to what you just said was to hold my head in both hands and wince.
Why? If he is scum, why don't you want to vote him?
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Because PX is scum too.
I'll be willing to switch to either at the end of the day though, when we're closer to a lynch.
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Just on the parroting alone, he is scum. But parroting is not really enough for a good argument, hence another reason why I'm not going to vote him yet.
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Oh fuck that was not supposed to be an edit
I thought I clicked quote
MOD FIX PLEASE. I'M SORRY!
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Thank you so much K4U!!
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But PX on the other hand, I noticed his scummy behaviour originally (yet still managed to forget Omba's PX case) but I didn't want to mention it just yet, as I wanted to look further. And he kept the same scumminess throught D1 so far.
Please elaborate: What?
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Please elaborate: What?
Please elaborate: What what?
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God I feel like walking a baby....
Explain WHY I'm scum?
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Okay there captain Bandwagon. Hands up on how many people would vote themselves for losing to a Hero/PX scumteam? That would be so shocking a revelation even I couldn't fathom it.
My read of Hero is he said Schezo was scum and didn't vote him immediately, then claimed he wasn't saying he thought Schezo was scum even though he was okay with his lynch and provided actual reasoning related to Schezo being scum. Hero, this is pretty silly even for you. I still think your initial frustration looks town, but you need to follow up the questions you ask as well. Failure to do so makes it look like you don't care.
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So you're happy to vote me without checking something like that. times change. Why I am scum? I don't think my votes are terrible at all. Why am I scum? all I remember from you is that you attacked me after I voted PX. The rest of the day has been small prods on people that hardly got people to focus on Schezo. The only person that you influenced to talk was BT. And his vote could probably change with the wind.
Rereading is effort and I know for a fact that I've reread the game more than anyone else so far. What you already did doesn't change unless someone deletes posts and rewrites history. Why I would misremember the meaning of stuff you did is because your stances are so pathetic that they look different when reread. My vote swap to you was telegraphed here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728057.html#msg728057).
@Huhwhat: I'm not too sure on Dan, but I'm currently leaning town. He has said and done some scummy things but I think overall he isn't that bad.
Schezo, who was a potential lynch target, I am leaning town too. The argument between him and Omba really painted Schezo in a good light for me.
Hero999 I'm not sure of either. I'd rather have a bit more substance from him before I decide.
Use more words and elaborate further. What exactly have they done that is scummy/town?
This is the kind of stuff that lets scum coast by with little-to-no content. It seems pretty unlikely we'll get enough substance from him for a clearer decision to be made before the day is almost over, so it's best to re-read him and decide now rather than waffling over it.
Hero responds to pressure, such as voting him to L-1. If you can get it that far then you might be able to have your preferred lynch too. Bear in mind that town would have to risk losing out a viable wagon.
My read of Hero is he said Schezo was scum and didn't vote him immediately, then claimed he wasn't saying he thought Schezo was scum even though he was okay with his lynch and provided actual reasoning related to Schezo being scum. Hero, this is pretty silly even for you. I still think your initial frustration looks town, but you need to follow up the questions you ask as well. Failure to do so makes it look like you don't care.
I'll reread Hero for this.
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Normally when you say "please elaborate" you would say after that something like "on what you meant by 'insert thing here'".
I saw your scummy behaviour but I wanted to wait to see if you would do something scummy again, before being sure of it. What you did was scummy. You voted Schezo for what I assume was to pressure him for lurking and you didn't even give a real reason other than that. Then later on you vote Shadoweh for only one reason that's your own (IIRC) and about 2-3 reasons taken from other people (one person being me suspecting her for throwing around WIFOM). Then later on you vote Action Dan for OMGUS, which it turns out actually was supposed to join with a whole other case. Stop taking from others, and make your own cases. If you can find another thing bad with Dan then that would be good.
Cut 2 times
@Pesco: I've already elaborated further on Hero. Dan did some suspicious things (like the Pesco/Schezo scum thing) but I can see some town intent in his other posts. Schezo had that argument with Omba, but during it he got a bit frustrated, I think that was townie frustration, and paired with the townie intent I see in his posts he looks very town to me.
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I'm not seeing scumHero. He hasn't said much but I think he's been pretty clear on exactly what he's saying.
And that he spells 'you're' as 'your' :V
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I wouldn't take it to the bank, but someone told me to trust my gut more often.
Now why won't you answer the other thing I keep asking you? -.-
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Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (1): Serela
Omba (0):
Pesco (1): ActionDan
Schezo (2): Omba, BT
Serela (0):
ActionDan (4): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX
PX (3): Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche
Hero999 (2): Schezo, huh what
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting:
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~18 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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No you answer what I asked you.
I draw my thoughts of Schezo from the moment his Soul Gem turn into a Grief Seed and the overwhelming despair will reveal his true nature
he started replying out of emotion. There's no formula for reading people's knee-jerk reactions. It's just how well you think you know them.
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@Schezo: Alright lets get this broken down into pieces.
I believe if I went by Meta, Schezo would be scum due to the British gentlemen or something or another.
I Went by Meta.
Went by Meta.
Meta.
Have I explicated stated that I rely utterly on meta?
Why do you want me to specifically reread your whole spat with Omba, why is it that you cannot state the answer to my answer in a more clear light for me to understand?
On the note of Deflection, You stated yourself, and I was stating what you said. You want Dormio dead, then you don't seem to be doing anything on that part. Reason?
Clarified on it? I stated that he only clarified after he was hit for it.
Also, your last quote in #184 is unreasonable.
I am stating the fact that Actiondan invoked Meta upon PX, and attacked him for a change in personality.
Felt the need to note a setup oh Pesco/Schezo, and clarifying only after being hit for it.
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@Job: Please, parroting? is that all your attacking me for? Your parroting right there by saying the exact same thing Schezo has said to me already. You want a cracker too?
Due to the large about of parroting. So that is your only reason? I really can't think your going to towns interests if you believe that parroting a large amount is immediate scum. Especially after you stated it wasn't a good argument yourself. Yet still stick to it.
Right now I find your cases to state
PX + Hero are scum, lynch PX over Hero anyways.
@Actiondan: My case on you is
You attacking PX specifically because of personality changes.
Needing to get hit on your *note* before you cared to clarify.
Counter vote on Pesco, because he apparently voted for something you found wrong.
@Pesco: Is there any reason you refuse to diverge information to public? You do not need to respond to this if you don't want to. Jerk Pesco
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Okay I woke up and stuff
first of all
##Unvote Bardiche
because I haven't even wanted Bard lynched since like the start of d1, but in my previous post I thought it'd look worse to just ##Unvote and leave my vote nowhere :C
old pesco questions go
Would you vote one of Schezo or Dan at the moment? Is a Dormio lynch going to be viable today?
No No and No
Bard:I triiiiied ;_; My online friend Ty calls me useless too from how I act in all the roleplays we've done. And he hasn't even seen me play mafia. I guess I'm not very useful in general!
Shadoweh:"Fleeing the Schezo Titanic" is an awesome line
Schezo/Huhwhat look town to me. I'm positive there are more town reads I could pick up right now but finding scum before my brain gets tired of mafia is more important!
I'm not sure where I stand on Dan. I don't really want to vote him today, but I wouldn't say I have a town read either. This must... develop further.
I'm trying to reread PX but I can't even find any goddamn posts by him wtf :I That in itself isn't exactly a good sign. Oh wait nevermind I just skimmed past them somehow. Okay! PX's posts past RVS are "Shadoweh is scum over shena-" oh wait that's actually sorta true and I can see where you're coming fro- okay well next is "Dan's OMGUS i-" oh wait I sorta like that too :C
Fuck, where was I again?
Knee-jerk reaction is that Pesco is scum. This is probably a really dumb reaction though. I have some questions for PX before I decide whether I want to vote him or not, anyway.
PX, what are your opinions on people other then Dan? You haven't really mentioned anyone other then Shadoweh/Dan yet. Like at all. This makes me sadface!
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@Actiondan: My case on you is
You attacking PX specifically because of personality changes.
Needing to get hit on your *note* before you cared to clarify.
Counter vote on Pesco, because he apparently voted for something you found wrong.
personality changes should be looked into. People not acting like themselves is suspicious, and I found PX to be scummy because of it. (Also, I thought Omba's case was good).
Narrative causality. I simply assumed people could take that at face value. People "hitting me" are those on my wagon proclaiming me scum, and all have used that as a reason to attack me without explaining why it's scummy. I believe Bard is the only one to say anything of substance about it, that it was "silly and bad to do."
Your Damn right I found it wrong. How is it scummy for me to vote someone I think is OBVSCUM.
And Pesco is Obvscum. Thank you serela for the knee-jerk reaction, I'm glad someone can see the light.
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@Pesco: Is there any reason you refuse to diverge information to public? You do not need to respond to this if you don't want to. Jerk Pesco
What haven't I told town? The only thing I can think of is that my gift of insight looks like leaps of logic to you lesser life forms. Ain't my fault if everyone is too dumb to read.
##Unvote Bardiche
because I haven't even wanted Bard lynched since like the start of d1, but in my previous post I thought it'd look worse to just ##Unvote and leave my vote nowhere :C
So you've just unvoted and left your vote hanging anyway. Now where was the rest of your post?
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(http://www.emotty.com/images/emoticons/1093.png)
JOB's jumping bandwagons left and right, Serela's talking about how he doesn't want to just unvote and then he just unvotes... you're all scum, aren't you?
Using meta is silly and bad because good players use that to their advantage, Dan. I agree here now that PX is not acting like his useless usual self by being twice more useless than normally, exceeding even Serela in being useless.
PEOPLE ON ACTIONDAN: WHY IS DAN WORSE THAN PX?
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Aw crap, that's s'posed to be a psyduck.jpg
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... That's a lot of posts, huh. Oh well.
Omba link the relevant posts for me to read that you feel are fluffly and I'll get back to you on that.
FFFFF-
One fluff post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727272.html#msg727272), the one that got him under fire in the first place.
If you mean "besides sharing it and suggesting we lynch the towniest people", then I'd say use it at a later juncture when scum tries to pull 3-scum-teams after one of their members get lynched, making Town look for a phantom scum. Does that sate your curiousity?
It does.
If Schezo couldn't find anything, does your case then change? Is he still scum for prioritising making his presence known over simply lurking?
I'm not able to tell whether he was unable to find anything, but the possibility has been noted; I think he would have been able to, though. And yes, I still see it as scummy, just as before. It's a very weak tell on it's own, however.
I never said I voted Bard for probing questions. I only said I voted him for dragging out that discussion for longer than needed.
Define longer than needed. Specifically, define difference between probing questions and dragging out.
I completely forgot about the PX case, sorry. I can give you that as a good case.
Nice Action Dan case btw, oh wait that was meant for Pesco. You only really added like one bit of information. Try adding a little bit more into the mix to see what you can make. With that last sentence, it seems as if you wanted to elaborate further but didn't have anything to go on. Perhaps now would be a good time to try?
Hero999(because Hero is much more catchy than Villian): Okay, I see what your views are on him. They make sense to me, I'll give you that.
->
You still look suspicious in my eyes though, so if I were you, I would try and make that better. (and be a little less aggressive too)
Suspicion why? Yes, I have read your previous posts. Yes, I'm still asking this question.
I didn't know stopping to answer your questions was scummy, especially when NO ONE HAD FUCKING POSTED on our spat at that time.
Seems I didn't word that clearly enough. To clarify: Didn't see motivation to find scum in the post where you voted ActionDan. Then didn't see this motivation in the reasoning you gave for that one post that initially got you voted (the fluffy one at RVS' end). The fact that you chose to use your time to respond to me instead of looking at the rest of the game is not something I see as scummy; it's something I might have done myself, as town. I see it as completely neutral.
No, look at your entire 121 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727582.html#msg727582) and tell me it's not just copied. The only thing you added was an advice remark to Job and Dan, and that's it. What it's fine now since Pesco said it and you give him credit? Then what in the fuck is the point if you're reposting JUST to make so fucking noise?
Argh, the reason it's driving me up the wall is that your case on me is built on "Schezo made noise and nothing else" and then you proceed to make a post that mirrors this and screams hypocrisy to my ears. It's why it's bothering me so much that your backing it up.
It's not just copied (:V), which you will notice if you take a close look.
That's not the point, though. You're saying my case on you is built on "Schezo made noise and nothing else", but somehow fail to see that it's specifically the "nothing else" part that I see as scummy. I thought I explicitly made that clear multiple times, but it seems I didn't. In short: If that post of mine you linked was my only one, I would have pretty much been guilty of the same thing I accused you of. But, somehow, it wasn't.
I taking from this, you're only looking at the logical aspects of the game and it has to be cut and dry, townie does this scum does that. I don't think you're taking into account grey areas and exceptions which are always bound to come up in this game.
I work with probabilities. But yes, I prefer to rely on the logical aspects and the intent I can read out of them, where possible. I am taking into account all the shades of gray I can see, though.
Anyway. You've started to actually do things now. Not exactly liking how the probing others vs responding to others' cases on you is still tilted towards the latter, but since you were today's first huge wagon, I guess that's kind of to be expected, hence for the time being neutral; my view of this may change depending on how you act D2+. Which is to say you're no longer the one I want to dismember the most.
##Unvote
Dislike Omba right now. The way he's attacking Schezo doesn't look like the way a townie method of pushing a case to me - he's not trying to convince other people that Schezo is scum, he's trying to convince Schezo that Schezo is scum and forcing Schezo to turtle in response. Pressuring townies into focusing only on defending themself instead of hunting scum makes sense as a scum ploy.
Uh. It also makes sense if what you're trying to do is get someone to proof his actions don't make him scum, then see if his explanations look town or not. And how is continuing to attack anything I see as in need of getting attacked a scum trait? What would you have me do instead?
I do not like how you only invoked meta for PX but disregard everyone else's meta.
Have you used meta for anyone besides Schezo so far? In your posts, that is.
Because I don't find him actively suspicious at the moment. I'll give him a deeper reread on D2.
Because I haven't really read his posts in-depth yet. Getting onto that in D2.
Do not like. If you plan to re-read his posts, that means you haven't done so enough to form a good opinion of him.
If you haven't done that, how the fuck do you plan to make a good decision on whom to lynch today. The fuck.
Schezo is loud, Schezo gets pressured, Schezo screams like a little girl, so let's not lynch the guy who was voted for being a lurker and stopped lurking, and instead vote someone who actually is.
Lynching a null-to-scum Lurker Day 1 would be just so ~novel~ I could get behind it if the people on him weren't making me twitch. Maybe that'll change. The day, she is still early. My vote, she screams to go where my GUT! feels something is out of place.
I'd rather lynch PX then either of them. No, not because he wants to wagon me, because I can't remember anything he's said today. It took me a minute to remember what his last post was.
What changed? I see you seem to have changed your opinion of Pesco at least somewhat. If your case on PX is he's lurking (I assume that's what you've meant here), does that mean there's no one else you'd like to kill more than the lurker (like Pesco before you changed your opinion of him)?
Also, please note that this post of mine (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727704.html#msg727704) exists.
Now that that stuff is out of the way...
##Vote PX
Why hello thar Schezo#2. Lolcase on Dan doesn't cut it. Let's find things others have said about Shadoweh and make a case out of it doesn't cut it either. What little effort I'm seeing from you has not been spent on doing actually useful things. I'm not fond of lynching lurkers D1. I do like lynching lurkers that behave like you do. Posting for the sake of posting is a surefire way to get your head ripped off by me.
Would lynch Dan if PX magically died before the day ended. Don't want to lynch Villain999 today anymore.
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Just got on. Going to take me a while to read through all this, but if anyone has some urgent questions for me right now, go ahead.
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For fucks sake guys, stop doing this. And don't ask people to ask you unspecified questions in this manner. Ever.
Oh btw, that town read thing aka short list of people who's lynch I'd violently oppose:
Pesco, Bardiche
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Dan is scum because:
First vote on PX was a crappy one. I talked about it in #95. The subsequent posting that mentions PX just continues to be parrot and dry flinging.
Second vote on Dormio came later than it appears. By that I mean Dan posted a bit in response to other people before deciding to vote
Dormio. Since Dormio says he was reiterating in #172, I reckon Dan could justifiably have responded to Dormio's vote much earlier than that. Like before Bard voted Dormio.
Brief recap here of Dan's voting pattern. Second vote on PX and Dormio. The second vote is a relatively safe spot on the wagon in theory. He's not the first vote, so he doesn't take the flak for starting the wagon if they flip town. It's not near the end when people start raising the standard for vote backing. He's made rather washy reasons that might have gone unnoticed had he not been called out for them from his first vote.
Third vote on me was a plain OMGUS. Just before Dan made this vote, there was a supposed reread coming. You can go all gung-ho onto me, but where's that big reread gone? Forgotten in the heat of the moment or ditched while the diversion gets sprung? Back to the first point of the vote; 'Pesco was being lazy, therefore scum'. Even when I'm being lazy I've done plenty more than you have when you're active. Same shit-flinging as you've been doing all along since you don't show us how an instance of me not checking the details equates to me being scum.
The second point of Dan's vote got refuted by PX and myself in #202 and #203 respectively. I take responsibility for my actions and it just shows how desperate Dan was to have anything to puff up his vote that he tries to discredit the discussion that generated from my Schezo vote.
Now read over his latest posts. Where are Dan's suspects for scum? Only the people who vote him. If he was making valid points it would be cool. But that's not happening.
PX's voting has been all round jump on whoever catches his eye last. It's bad/silly play but it's at least original to himself. I don't find him scummy today because DotS meta. PX is more like Dormio v.2 to me. They're quite straightforward about their feelings and thoughts, PX less obvious than Dormio. My view of PX is that he's being this useless because he doesn't have anything to hide. There's no fancy role to try and stay alive to use, so just wing it.
Of the 4 votes on PX Bard's one is backed with real intent to lynch (1). Shadoweh was made as a prod (0). JOB was trying to look like he has something when he doesn't (0.5). Omba's PX revote looks disjointed without a recap of the initial PX-vote reasons (0.5). Intent to lynch value here: 2
Dan's got my vote (worth a whole 1), Hero's vote (worth 1 as well because Hero has been on this guy from early on and has stayed on his ass the whole time), Dormio's vote (pretty outdated but I also don't see anything scummy about Dormio's actions thus far, worth a 0.5) and PX's vote (worthless). Intent to lynch value here: 2.5
Basically half the people on PX aren't feeling that strong on getting him to hang. On the other hand, Dan is cornered scum.
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We have 8 hours from this point on. If we're gonna lynch, we'd better get our asses in gear altogether and stat, before Keine-tan rando-lynches. And no one wants to hand Town's ONLY weapon against scum to a hateful, spiteful bot.
PX being Dormio v2 to you makes me ;_; because I also want to lynch Dormio. Reading Dan now to see if I can get behind a Dan wagon.
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Pesco: No recap of the reasons for my initial vote on PX because they're directly linked to the ones for my second vote. "Posting for the sake of posting is a surefire way to get your head ripped off by me" applies in both cases.
You got me to take another look at Dan and PX. In light of your analysis, Dan does actually look a lot more definitive scummy.
I initially did not take a closer look at his OMGUS on you because I read it as Dan being Dan and hence overlooked the other shit associated with it.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
Also, this action of Pesco's cements my town read on him, regardless of Dan's flip.
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Draw agreed.
##Unvote
##Vote Hero999
I'll be here for another 3 hours, then I have to play another game, and I'm very likely to miss deadline.
I think both Hero999 and PX are bad, but I think PX has more genuine feeling in his vote on me than Hero (Oddly enough, I am in agreement with Pesco here). If I am to use Omba's phrase, Hero is more "definitively scummy" than PX. After Obvscum Pesco, I think Dormio is a better lynch than both Hero and PX. The Hero and PX wagons should consolidate, because the people on them to my knowledge are not interested in lynching me. If Hero doesn't pick up votes soon, I'll switch over to PX.
If there's one thing I'm going do before dying, It's make a Pesco case. Oh, and my vote on you is not "refuted" at all. I'll get to that.
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Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (1): BT
Serela (0):
ActionDan (5): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba
PX (3): Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche
Hero999 (3): Schezo, huh what, ActionDan
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: Serela
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~6.5 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-2
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Uh. It also makes sense if what you're trying to do is get someone to proof his actions don't make him scum, then see if his explanations look town or not. And how is continuing to attack anything I see as in need of getting attacked a scum trait? What would you have me do instead?
Main problem is that you seemed convinced of scum!Schezo after you switched your vote, and most of the pressure after that looks like noise that was just cornering somebody into turtling when they had already done most of what they could do to explain themself. It wasn't actually helping town catch scum, it was just oppressing your target. You should be trying to convince the other players of your case, not your target. Questioning seemed fine to me until after the voteswitch, though.
In other news, I feel obligated to express irritation toward Serela for not having any solid opinions on who is scum with 7 hours left in the day. <_< The only thing close is his stance on PX, but there are more targets than PX right now and I can't tell what his opinions on Hero and Dan are supposed to be. Most notably, I don't think he's said anything about Hero at all.
Cut by weird-looking wagons. I'll switch to PX if necessary, haven't found him very impressive and still think Dan is looking townie. Hero is my preferred lynch regardless.
-
Far as I can see on AD, I dislike this initial stint (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727346.html#msg727346) where he encourages looking at Shadoweh like "helpful scum" but chooses not to submit to that route himself. Panic mongering, or helpful case building? I think the former.
A jump on PX (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727445.html#msg727445) with explanation of GUT! and liking Omba's vote. And Omba. And Huh What. And Pesco/Schezo can't be scum together. I don't see anything really terribly wrong beside the jump on PX with what amounts to "what Omba said", and would've liked a stating of personal reasons beyond GUT!, despite PX's light content.
That he does so later on (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727699.html#msg727699) redeems him for me, even though I don't like the meta argument. We're looking for scummy behaviour, not behaviour that differs from a standard MO for players. If the change is scummy, explain it.
His next post is a counter to the Schezo case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727830.html#msg727830) by clearing Schezo as possible Town, while in the same breath acknowledging he only skimmed Schezo's posts. I dislike the blunt admission of "I haven't read him as close as I could" and clearing him solely on the amount of posts he produces and not the content therein. I happen to think Schezo's content is good that he doesn't smell as scum to me, so I find it strange Dan would cop-out by just using posting frequency.
There's also the pre-emptive "looks like it's either Schezo or me", which doesn't jive with his defence of Schezo... because if it truly were between the two of you, isn't Me Over Not Me the preferred course of action for town?
Bandwagon is spelt thusly, stop it with the double G's, homey.
While he is on PX's case (good!), I dislike the stated reasons (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728022.html#msg728022), which are meta and speculations that he doesn't support with any arguments to make us see the same "PX trying to 'bandwaggons'" for fun and trying too hard to look Town. From where I sit PX is rather scummy and not in any way does he resemble a Townie. The later speculation that scum!Pesco'd never hyperbus a scum!Schezo by FPMH (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728036.html#msg728036) is downright stupid. It's because you don't expect it to happen that that kind of shit happens, because scum like to avoid detection.
Bad reasoning isn't scummy reasoning, though, and while Dan is not the flying paragon of Townie spirit to me, I also don't think he's scummier than PX.
I do dislike the song and dance he has with voting Pesco, and suddenly now jumping off of PX because "PX feels genuine" after adding on to his case for the rest of the game stating how PX is lying and pretending and being all flavours of scum.
OK, nevermind, I can get behind a Dan lynch.
-
I don't think I understand every last thing that's been going on in the last three pages or so, and despite this I try making a case and not slacking off, something that would probably make me look even worse (slacking off, that is).
##Unvote
There's not much time left, so I doubt this lynch will go anywhere outside of Dan/PX/Hero. Besides, my opinion on Schezo has improved after a reread or two.
I'm having a really hard time making a case here. I've reread the past few pages a couple of times and still don't have a clear choice for scum. There has been, however, something that really bugged me. Namely, Dan's recent post.
In #199 he makes what others have already explained quite well (and I back them up on that opinion) to be a panic post, or at least something that looks like one. Then, trying to explain that it wasn't a panic post, he tells us how suicidal he is in that he doesn't care anymore and just wants us to lynch Pesco as soon as possible, since he's "obvscum". In fact, he repeats this in a few good posts, including his recent posts. Regarding the actual idea of lynching Pesco-- I'm not really convinced, and I get the feeling most of the others aren't either. But that's not the point I'm making. After already "accepting his fate" and trying to do his best before dying to "put us back on track", he suddenly forgoes all that and lynches Hero for the sole intent (even if he didn't make it clear) of saving himself by changing the lynch. He says that both Hero and PX are bad (without explaining why), then says that both bandwagons should cease from existing, which doesn't make sense aside from a sudden Pesco wagon that won't happen, and then to top it all off JOINS the Hero bandwagon "in the meantime". Why the fuck? If this isn't a result of some kind of panic (which is ALSO a contradiction, this time of the posts he had so far, that begged us to believe he ISN'T panicking), I don't know what to make of that post.
My official vote on Dan is put on hold so he explains what that post was all about, in case I'm somehow misinterpreting something. Also because the last time I joined a bandwagon I got shit in front of my face just for pushing to L-2. What, then, will happen now, when I push to L-1? I think I made myself clear.
-
OK, nevermind, I can get behind a Dan lynch.
Am I to read this as "I can get behind a Dan lynch, but would still prefer a PX lynch"? Decide, please.
-
BT: Whether you get bashed for something or not is not what you should base your actions on. It's whether it will benefit town. I do hope you'll be around to actually place your vote before the day ends.
Also, decide. Not liking this wait-and-see at all. To speed things up, I'll explain one part of Dan's post that you appear to be confused about, since it's a simple matter. That he wants the wagons to consolidate means he wants the voters from either of the wagons to switch to the other (so either everyone on PX switches to Villain999, or the other way around). I wonder why you failed to grasp that, though. It should be fairly obvious if not directly, then at least on a closer read. I'm pretty sure you should do a closer read of something that confuses you to the point of holding your vote off.
-
I'm in the middle of writing a pesco case, but BT, my god.
I'd much rather lynch not-me over me, and the two choices are Hero and PX. I think both are scummy and viable options. I think Hero is more scummy than PX, because I have the feeling that there is a chance that PX will flip green and that town would have just lynched absolutely terrible play. Hero's posting is more concretely scummy and I think his lynch will be more likely to flip red. Read my ISO for opinions about the both of them. I'm not asking for both there wagons to disappear. I'm asking for town to choose one of them as the main counter-wagon.
Bard, don't you dare think I'm letting go of PX. I thought he was scum early, and carried that impression until he posted. I can't be sure his recent posts are scummy because I think there is no "scum" foresight in them.
-
So, what, you spent the majority of the Day on someone you thought was scummy and his lackluster posts here now magically absolve him of Prime Suspect status? What is this "scum foresight"?
-
Bard, don't you dare think I'm letting go of PX. I thought he was scum early, and carried that impression until he posted. I can't be sure his recent posts are scummy because I think there is no "scum" foresight in them.
And Pesco is Obvscum. Thank you serela for the knee-jerk reaction, I'm glad someone can see the light.
##Unvote
##Vote Hero999
How many scum are in the game?
-
Bardiche, I'm trying to lynch scum here, not lackluster posts. PX isn't absolved, and I think he is scummier than everybody besides Pesco, Dormio, and Hero. Question to Bard. If PX were to flip town, what would your reaction be?
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (5): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba
PX (3): Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche
Hero999 (3): Schezo, huh what, ActionDan
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: Serela, BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~5 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-2
-
The reason I failed to understand 'consolidate' correctly is not because I was speed-reading, but because English is my second language and I thought that was another word for 'disappear' for whatever reason.
Dan, if prepping a Pesco case is your main concern, why are you making a counterwagon out of one of Hero/PX? If you believe it will convince us that he is, in fact, obvscum, the counterwagon is completely unneeded, and for the sake of momentary survival all you had to do was, well, ask for momentary survival. "Don't get majority on me until I'm done posting this" or something like that. And if you think whatever you're tying to post now WON'T lead to a Pesco lynch, shouldn't your focus be on making a better Hero case? This split-focus confuses me.
-
Honestly the cases that have been built on Dan and the current actions he's been taking to find his so called Obv scum Pesco and that he thinks PX is town and doesn't want to drop him as a scum suspect.
Still not seeing where the clears of Hero are coming from and he's still my preferred lynch but I will vote Dan over PX. I'm seeing mislynch PX, not scum PX.
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Bardiche, I'm trying to lynch scum here, not lackluster posts. PX isn't absolved, and I think he is scummier than everybody besides Pesco, Dormio, and Hero. Question to Bard. If PX were to flip town, what would your reaction be?
This question is stupid and I deign not to respond. Why? Because you can't tell beforehand how you'll act to unlikely event X.
By lackluster posts, I mean there is NOTHING in them that evidences even a tiny shred of scumhunting, reasoning or even trying to help Town catch the damn scums. Remember Huh Whatty warning about coasting players? Well, here we have one.
-
Pesco has not contributed to town in the way he thinks.
Pesco's FPMH vote on Schezo for hios "fluff" post was fine. Schezo made a bad post, Schezo got punished. Pesco was the not the only one to see this of course, with HW and Omba launching an attack for the same reasons. Pesco can claim responsibility for discussion around Schezo and for reactions associated with it all he wants, but that doesn't change the fact that Pesco's power is limited to a vote + Pesco's own words. It's simply causality that people other than Pesco attacked Schezo and that Schezo himself developed various reads. What is actually important is what Pesco's own participation in the conversation entailed. And looking back at Pesco's posts during that time, it should be quite clear Pesco didn't do a whole lot of anything, either in reads of people, or in content.
#137 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727770.html#msg727770) attempts to link up with the Omba/Schezo discussion. While both have given a good amount of content, Pesco is only willing to cherry pick from these posts without giving substantial opinions on what he thinks is scummy. Quoting selections of text and offering up small prods is interpreted by me as scum coasting. For example, here's a comment about Schezo's vote on Omba.
"You'd have to do better than that if you want to OMGUS. Put Omba aside for a moment and tell me about Dan and PX."
Whilst discrediting it as OMGUS, you don't quite say if it's scummy. At this point Schezo had already made a post about me and PX, and considering PX hadn't posted again, and you didn't ask Schezo anything specifically about me or PX, I see why you are holding back here. This is scum stalling the day and pretending to be useful.
Where (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727782.html#msg727782) are (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727788.html#msg727788) your (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727792.html#msg727792) reads (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728012.html#msg728012) already? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728033.html#msg728033) It's a lovely thing to prod people. But I don't think you've made anything out of it.
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728057.html#msg728057) has been a long time coming. And it only comes after people have solidified their reads of Schezo (mostly as town Schezo) and after a few people have voted me. You waited to see what would fly and only gave these measly reads once after you felt comfortable that they would conform to popular opinion that no one would take a 2nd glance. I had already called you on keeping my case in the backround (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728036.html#msg728036) as well.
Flipped my Shit. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728143.html#msg728143) You had a stronger case for me being scum than whatever your vote for Schezo implied, so saying that in ISO my votepost for PX could be interpreted as a OMGUS and forgetting your case against constructed FORM THAT VERY POST is not just a mistake, its scummy as all get-out. It tells me that you must not have felt that strong about it, since you forgot about it. Secondly, your presenting an argument to town based on a falsehood is scummy for misrepping. You brush that off saying "w/e town can go back and read," but obviously town isn't going to do that so readily and catch your mistake. Furthermore if you are happy with saying my vote on Dormio feels like OMGUS, you should be able to agree with Dormio's case. You haven't commented on Dormio's case at all. I thought Dormio's case was garbage. I don't think you bothered to read why, or else you'd have something more to say about it.
Dormio has yet to answer my questions from my votepost of him. Dormio is getting away with murder.
Pesco's case on me is "specious voting analysis" whilst discrediting my content as parroting or shit-flinging. And the fact that more people voting me means I'm cornered scum, which is patently stupid.
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I was sorta waiting on PX to come and answer my questions
but it's getting kind of late and he still hasn't appeared
Dan is like, definitely not getting my vote today. And with PX's continued nonexistence that keep him from fixing any of his shortcomings I'd much rather vote him then Hero.
##Vote:PX
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That case is riddled with grammar mistakes, but I don't have time to edit. My match starts in about half an hour.
>votecount
I would vote the most viable not-me wagon but I don't even know which it is, since Bard and Schezo both have stated they are ok with my lynch if not PX or Hero respectively.
Considering they won't switch to the opposite counter-wagon to me, this annoys me greatly.
-
Thank you serela for stepping in.
##Unvote
##Vote PX
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Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (5): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba
PX (5): Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan
Hero999 (2): Schezo, huh what
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~4 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-2
PX is at L-2
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Things before I go.
Schezo=town, Hw=town, Omba=town, Job is better than neutral = town. Shadoweh sounds weird, like ITP weird. Bard slightly better than neutral, because these last few votes playing with wagons make my head explode and don't seem compatible with his dislike of Dormio when Dormio hate came from a vote on me that by his lack of presence, one that Dormio will not retract. Even if this is not how it works, I could give a shit.
-
Dormio and PX, you need to talk.
Pesco's "lol you think there is 3 scum?" is fucking scummy. LIKE WTF SCUMMY LYNCH NOW scummy!
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My dislike of Dormio came and comes from tunneling and then voting someone else for tunneling and refusing to look at other people. Don't try to twist it into something else now.
How is Pesco's "lol you think there is 3 scum?" fucking scummy?
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BT, town hardens there hearts late in the day and a Pesco lynch would at this point be asking the impossible.
-
Pesco's post is unnecessary mudslinging. Think about it.
Btw Bard. Why are you hunky dory with Pesco clearing PX, but when I so much as mention the possibility, you get agitated.
-
I understand your Dislike of Dormio. I'm not twisting anything. It's simply unnatural to be willing to switch to me when BOTH your main suspects are voting me. Even if you tell me mafiers doesn't work like this, EVERYONE gets this feeling.
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I think Dan and Pesco are just two townies with opposing viewpoints. Dan is probably more tunneled than Pesco, though, given the post that "EVERYTHING PESCO DOES IS SCUMMY" he just ninja'd me with. I don't think that Pesco was mudslinging at all and find it more likely that Dan is just super biased.
That said, people who claim Dan is bad for voting Hero over PX fail to realize that scum!Dan had no absolutely no reason to vote Hero instead of jumping straight to the PX wagon, given that it would have been easier to attack PX from his vantage point while adding numbers to the wagon with a larger chance of growing to boot. I'm actually reading the maneuver as slightly town, because I can't find any scum intent in it unless scum!Dan just wanted to waste time (which is kind of a stretch and only seems like it would serve to draw more suspicion to him).
Any objections to me putting PX at L-1 now that the Hero wagon seems to have dissipated completely? I personally feel shifty about the way his wagon grew but do not have the townie read on him that I have on Dan. I don't think I need to explain why his content has been rather lackluster.
Speaking of the Hero wagon, I'm irritated with Serela still for ignoring it completely.
-
Pesco, what were you holding back about Schezo voting Villian. YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR FEELING! You just went Schezo is town, I was pressureing him.
I g2g.
-
Thank you serela for stepping in.
##Unvote
##Vote PX
Looks like you don't care who gets lynched when you do stuff like this. Everyone who's attacked you is scum and everyone who doesn't is town. Way to be pro-town right there ::)
Pesco, what were you holding back about Schezo voting Villian. YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR FEELING! You just went Schezo is town, I was pressureing him.
Schezo was no longer being outstandingly scummy. But even if I was starting to doubt, there's no need for me to show it when there was still time and pressure to make him react some more.
Any objections to me putting PX at L-1 now that the Hero wagon seems to have dissipated completely? I personally feel shifty about the way his wagon grew but do not have the townie read on him that I have on Dan. I don't think I need to explain why his content has been rather lackluster.
I object to you not voting Dan to L-1.
-
Play DotA until 2am. Wake up at 6am and proceed to be unable to see anything as it's freaking blurry for the next couple of hours.
I really am not sure what to say here. Your posts conveys only what I've said or done, and not why it's scummy. Dormio, what do you think of the people I called town, especially Schezo? Do you find good reasons to not consider them town? Or is me calling people town scummy in and of itself? This is what is not clear to me in your case.
Huh, don't know how I missed that.
Anyway, I don't care about who you think is town, it's who you think is scum that is far more interesting and important.
Also, after having skimmed over whatever happened after I went to sleep, it kind of feels like Dan is just doing anything to try to save himself.
#267: You're making a Pesco case. Does that mean you think that Pesco is scum? Why do you feel the need to make this case right at the end of the day? Since the last thing you referenced was from like almost 24 hours (19 hours) before your big case, why couldn't you have made it a lot earlier?
I dunno, tired.
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BT: You had enough time to think, got your reaction from Dan and everything. Decide whom you want to lynch now.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (5): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba
PX (5): Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan
Hero999 (2): Schezo, huh what
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~3 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-2
PX is at L-2
-
Omba: If you're worrying because I might leave at any second-- I'm not. I'm actually waiting for PX to get on, and I should stay online for at least another hour or so.
-
Been trying to re-read but my brain is dying on me.
I now find Hero even worse. Taking another look at Dan's #94 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727445.html#msg727445) gives me the impression that Dan's line about Pesco was more intended as a question for Pesco rather than an attack on him, and yet Hero has been blowing an apparent misunderstanding of Pesco's content out of proportion as a point against Dan without actually explaining how it's scummy. Blargh. This is reinforcing my belief that Hero is voting the player whose points he can counteract rather than voting the player who is scum.
Ugh why did Omba drop Hero for no apparent reason.
The gist of what I got from reading everything again is that both of our current wagons seem really shifty to me now. Feels like we're lynching two bad townies, though I'd still argue that Dan is the better of the two. The nature of the wagons makes me think that Dan's is more likely to be a scum push because he's been the guy people just agree to be scummy on the side so they can voteswitch to him later and that bugs me. PX's wagon looks a lot less calculated, which coincides with the overall unruly nature of town. I'm more comfortable seeing him go, though I think this has devolved to the point where it's a total crapshoot either way.
##Unvote
##Vote PX (L-1)
-
There's a reason I wanted PX to say his stuff: I'm currently leaning towards a PX lynch, and I wanted to hear him out, but he's been online for ample time now and I'm not seeing anything. Now, I've been in this kind of scenario before, where a suspect spouts irrelevant info out of possible panic and before likely demise. This could be one of two things: a townie trying to share his suspicions/what he thinks is important info with the rest of the town, or scum trying to mislead the town in order to survive. I know it's in order to survive because, if he DOES die, the town would automatically discard any of his prior cases, making this a waste. And, if this really is the case, Dan went for Hero and not PX, even though I think PX was the more suspected of the two at the time (I think he had one vote more on him, as well), so this could also mean that PX is scum. If it's the former, though (the panicked town), I've been in this scenario before. And the former is usually the case.
It is now ten minutes before 2:00 AM. Unless I see a plea from PX to convince me otherwise in this time, I'm casting the final vote.
-
HEY d9on't you dare cut me, you know how hard it is to race buses to get home this early? -.- We still have what, an hour?
-
Yes, there's an hour left. So if someone else wants to vote PX, and PX doesn't respond yet, I have no problem letting him end it instead. In fact, it's preferred, for obvious reasons.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (5): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba
PX (6): Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan, huh what
Hero999 (2): Schezo
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~2 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-2
PX is at L-1
-
I stand corrected.
Yeah, I'm leaving. For the people that really wanted to see my vote, it's too bad, since now I can't cast it. I made my opinion clear, though, which should be enough at this stage.
-
I hate you DotA, for ruining my life. What do I have, 2 hours left? Let me try to catch up???
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Yeah, I'm leaving. For the people that really wanted to see my vote, it's too bad, since now I can't cast it. I made my opinion clear, though, which should be enough at this stage.
Not good enough. You should have been ready to post what you had irrespective of whether or not PX came around again.
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Let him end it.. are you suggesting PX is going to vote himself?! That's.. uhm.. actually that's not that unusual come to think of it. PX don't cut me either! I missed a couple things fropm earlier in my rush 2 post, so I will address as much as possible.
If you mean "besides sharing it and suggesting we lynch the towniest people", then I'd say use it at a later juncture when scum tries to pull 3-scum-teams after one of their members get lynched, making Town look for a phantom scum. Does that sate your curiousity?
Think for a moment about how upset other players were at the idea I was told the ratios by the mod ahead of time when I mentioned them. Now imagine if I had done what you're suggesting instead. I'd rather share something that people possibly could have missed early so everyone is working with the same information then have the endgame devolve into cries of cheating and bastard modding.
Omba: To answer your question in #134, It makes me happy to be surrounded by so much green. The scum can't take all my townie friends away from me! <^_^> On regular Day 1's scum can make up about half of a wagon. Makes it easy to block people into a choice. Now they have to deal with town random shenanigans and keeping up with the tides. The question about Pesco, uhm.. he looks like scum. This probably means he's actually town because he doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks of him. I don't feel like he's trying to drown us out in noise either. So yeah. And I was going to say PX hasn't posted at all since then,but he appears to be here now.
I think I'm feeling confident huh what is town now, despite my inability to read him as anything but town. Posting this now while I continue reading.
Fixed your formatting!
-
ActionDan I would still peg him as my best pick regardless of if I were dying or not. His vote on me is very lackluster, and he claims he's voting me because I'm scum. He's kept repeating that I'm scum, yet his only reason is because I'm not playing to meta???
Shadoweh still looks weird, she doesn't feel like her self when she was town.
BT is what? I'd look towards him later on.
JOB should not reach Lylo. Just don't let that happen again.
And a lot of other people are either town or uninteresting. Because I don't need to say :X person looks town because" to make my posts look bigger :|
-
Shadoweh still looks weird, she doesn't feel like her self when she was town.
When was the last time you saw town!Shadoweh?
-
Too long ago.
-
You guys suck.
Shadoweh sounds weird, like ITP weird.
Wow it is almost like when I'm not scum I sound similar, what is with that!
The Hero and PX wagons should consolidate, because the people on them to my knowledge are not interested in lynching me.
>___>
PX give me one good reason to vote for the other guy right now and I'll consider it.
-
This is a limited time offer btw, valued until someone on Dan's wagon shows up to hammer you. Act now and avoid being lynched!
-
I'm here, in case I need to hammer.
Now reading what's happened.
-
Possibly. I'm serious about what I just said to PX. I'm a tad worried though, who IS here that can hammer PX? I Tyhink Omba is here. In fact a rolecall is in order.
-
Dan has been everywhere this D1. He's jumped between 4 votes and he's saying they're all scum. And if you notice, it's his entire wagon. Idk, but it looks like he's just OMGuSing this whole day.
-
Oh, also. With BT abandoning us, we won't get either lynch until people switch.
Which is to say I want people on PX to switch over. I won't switch unless I absolutely have to to avoid Keine-sama coming down us.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (5): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba
PX (6): Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan, huh what
Hero999 (1): Schezo
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~1 hour (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-2
PX is at L-1
-
Hold on let me consult my advisor. My Bacardi Breezer wants to know why you sound so blaze about being lynched. It also wants to know what this weird feeling about me is based on but that's because I'm narcissistic. I want to see you say something I could hold for or against you, personally.
-
I'm here but can't hammer PX and would rather not switch to Dan. PX's last impressions are actually pretty weak. I disagree that OMGUS is the concrete scumtell he seems to be treating it is.
Omba being so unwilling to switch to PX makes no sense given his past stances on both players. <_<
-
It should be noted that I might not actually be around for the last few minutes before deadline, but I'm not fully sure yet. Sorry. @_@
-
..Also where the hell is Schezo and why is his vote floating in outer space? >_> He sounded like he would be around a bit longer.
-
So I return only to find we're tied on wagons and everyone's unwilling to lynch the other.
Shadoweh, why would you switch to Dan over PX?
-
Because he sounds like Just. Didn't you all want to lynch Just? Infallible logic.
-
So yeah.
I'm having really bad feelings over this Dan thing even though I said earlier I would vote him. I still do not like either of these wagons and would rather lynch Hero but that ain't happening.
PX's lack of anything right now is who I want to lynch and will vote here in a second.
Shadoweh, I keep getting this feeling that you're going to make response post and get a lot of stuff out there but all you're doing is just "ugh cut (insert one liner)"
-
Let's hit post not preview.
So Shadoweh do you plan on making one of those?
-
PX's lack of anything right now is who I want to lynch and will vote here in a second.
Define "a second", please. Vague wording about when you're going to hammer somebody isn't exactly ideal. :l
-
I'm having really bad feelings over this Dan thing even though I said earlier I would vote him. I still do not like either of these wagons and would rather lynch Hero but that ain't happening.
PX's lack of anything right now is who I want to lynch and will vote here in a second.
What changed? Please elaborate.
-
And by elaborate I mean before you vote him, obviously.
-
Fine, I'll elaborate. What everyone is pointing out, and what I quoted from him, is a trend in voting and scum accusations that denotes Dan is scared of getting lynched and looking for something to get people off of him. I doubt he has quite the same panic tinge as me, but he does start to sound unhinged as scum the closer he is to a lynch.
PX on the other hand was following through on a promise to vote Dan he made earlier. I think Pesco is right in that there are a pile of votes on PX by people that aren't really committed to sticking onto him. But the last minute post he put out doesn't seem.. from the heart, if it makes sense.
I trust in the feelings of Dan's wagon and haven't gotten a town read from him yet. My own selfish self wants to ride PX into the sunset. Schezo popping up when I mention him makes me want to punch him in the mouth. >:<
-
Actually, let me go analyze my wagon right now. It shouldn't take long to find the votes :|
-
My own selfish self wants to ride PX
Keep your lewdness out of this, Shadomeh.
Because he sounds like Just. Didn't you all want to lynch Just? Infallible logic.
I didn't want to lynch Just.
Anyway, Schezo's hammering PX then?
-
Shadoweh: He's useless
JOB: I'm a parrot!
Bardiche: Can't actually find... can you restate it?
NeoSerela: He wasn't here, and not Dan over Dan
ActionDan: OMGuS?
huh whut: Dan is the better Townie.
...
Right, I don't really like this wagon. AT ALL.
-
Right, so when I get lynched and flip
scum Town, Dan and Serela should be looked at D2.
-
Shadoweh: So let me get this straight. You... think Dan acts like scum, Pesco is right on PX, but PX made a last minute reaction that doesn't sit right with you, so you want to lynch PX, even though Dan's reaction to getting waggoned has also looked like a scum reaction to you? The hell?
Also: "I trust in the feelings of Dan's wagon" I think I remember you mentioning something about this but can't find the actual spot right now. Please link it because I'm not sure I'll be able to find it before someone hammers.
-
Guys? Are you there?
Guys? Don't leave me alone...
Uguu
*crawls to a corner and goes fetal*
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (5): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba
PX (6): Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan, huh what
Hero999 (1): Schezo
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~20 minutes(watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-2
PX is at L-1
-
You could just ISO me, it's not like I've had time to make posts earlier. Reading over myself reminds me that Dan has been bugging me all day. The Bacardi has spoken! Also cutting Schezo for the lulz.
##Unvote
##Vote: Action Dan
You expect me to be 100% sure of what I'm feeling? I don't have your alignments on a spreadsheet today, sorry.
-
:l
Will hammer in 10 minutes if there are no Schezobjections.
-
TL;DR; you're scum because you've done scummy shit.
By which I mean you've had all of zero presence this entire day, provided nothing of valuable insight when you WERE present, hopped on the Dan bandwagon ONLY for his OMGUS on Pesco, and you've basically said NOTHING about ANYONE. This stunt (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727382.html#msg727382) where you vote Schezo to "say more" when your contributions up to that point have been "lol bandwagons" and "omg K4u!11!", combined with voting Shadoweh in a throw-away fashion as you jump on Dan later (bandwagons hoot hoot) for an 'OMGUS' vote on Pesco, combined with Omba's case. Omba's case, with no effort to actually make a case yourself.
I'd say more but sadly that's all you've done. A grand whole of njende.
Ninja by Shadowehaaaaah what are you doing.
-
Stop turtling you whiner. And Town's apathy on lynching scum doesn't ever stop them from accidentally targetting scum. I said Pesco is right that PX as usual has a full wagon somehow built out of false promises while Dan has a wagon of full-time commitments. I'd rather be sure I'm on the right wagon then just switch for "Information".
-
Oh I'll hammer PX in 10
Don't have time to do ombas thing.
-
Schezo: You can't hammer ATM because Shadoweh switched votes. You'd only be putting him to L-1.
Hammering Dan in five.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (6): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba, Shadoweh
PX (5): JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan, huh what
Hero999 (1): Schezo
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~15 minutes(watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-1
PX is at L-2
-
What false promises? My desire to see him lynched is very real! I thought yours was as well!
-
Oh fucking.
##Unvote:
##Vote:Px
-
...actually, it's probably better if I wait another 5, given that Bard doesn't seem to be done here.
So. 5 minutes until hammer, again.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (6): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba, Shadoweh
PX (6): JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan, huh what, Schezo
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~10 minutes(watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-1
PX is at L-1
-
I'm just confused by Shadoweh's sudden jump off of PX, given she was all PX before and aaaaah. Jesus christ I hate deadlines.
-
My thought process right now is grdlghekledat. Both people are an option. It's really up to everyone that's here. Omba, do you honestly think the way PX is curling up sounds like his town self? This isn't just my commitment.
-
1 minute, but willing to wait for Omba to answer.
I still think that Omba's sudden complete change of heart about PX is pretty argh.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (6): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba, Shadoweh
PX (6): JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan, huh what, Schezo
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 ends in ~5 minutes (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=08&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
ActionDan is at L-1
PX is at L-1
-
Shadoweh: I don't have that much meta on PX. I do think it sounds consistent with his previous post. Or rather, more town than his previous posts. So yes, I think so.
-
Right then.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan (L-0)
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Schezo (0):
Serela (0):
ActionDan (7): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba, Shadoweh, huh what
PX (5): JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan, Schezo
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT
ActionDan has been lynched! He was a Vanilla Townie. It is now N1. Night actions need to be sent to me with in the next 24 hours.
-
Overnight Schezo died. He was a Vanilla Townie
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (0):
PX (0):
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT, Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba, Shadoweh, huh what, JOB, Bardiche, Serela
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends at October 12 at 10 PM EDT (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
##Vote Hero999
Still scum for tunneling on Dan all of D1 with no real impressive content. His "case" was just a bunch of attempts at countering Dan's logic rather than trying to find scum intent. The most egregious example of this is him apparently thinking Dan is scum for not properly interpreting Pesco's post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727445.html#msg727445)
J.O.B is scummy for having weak (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728129.html#msg728129) / waffly (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728302.html#msg728302) stances on the people he wasn't voting and requiring prodding to produce opinions throughout D1 (eg. the scuffle about Hero from late in the day). Also dislike Dormio for abruptly dropping his early reads without initial explanation just to tunnel on Dan for the rest of the day, which leaves him with no real opinions now that Dan has flipped. Would lynch either of them of the two if I can't get my Hero lynch again. Willing to concede that Omba is probably town and that my suspicion of him on D1 was due to disagreements with the way he was playing and overall frustration toward the Dan wagon going through.
Also, Serela is vigbait and should needs to post some :words:. I keep forgetting that he's in the game, and it's annoying because if he were scum right now then he could probably end up coasting to endgame on meta so long as he posted some waffles and vague stances every now and then.
-
...can I stop F5ing now?
-
Look at this! Mutiny.
Catch them all!
-
I would like each player to post his current read on each of the following players, with a short explanation why:
Bardiche, Pesco, Shadoweh, huh what, Omba
You can refuse to give an explanation for some or all of your reads or refuse to give a read on some or all of these players, if you so choose.
-
I would like Omba to post his current read on each of the following players, with a short explanation why:
Bardiche, Pesco, Shadoweh, huh what
You can refuse to give an explanation for some or all of your reads or refuse to give a read on some or all of these players, if you so choose.
-
Serious answer is that all of them seem town to me (Shadoweh and Bard being townier than Pesco and Omba). But asking people for reads that you yourself haven't given is kind of stupid (hence above post). <_<
-
But asking people for reads that you yourself haven't given is kind of stupid (hence above post).
Why?
-
Well, do you actually have a decent reason to withhold your reads until other players have given them on the same group of people? <_<
Even if you had answered your own question already, the post seems kind of silly and also like an invitation to noise that makes you seem pro-active when you're not actually doing much or pressing specific players. I don't think people ignored the players you listed so much as just didn't talk about them on the grounds that they looked townier than a lot of other targets. If anybody has something interesting to say about one of those players, then they're going to say it without needing somebody to question the entire town first.
-
I don't think people ignored the players you listed so much as just didn't talk about them on the grounds that they looked townier than a lot of other targets.
To elaborate, I don't mean that people skipped over those players. I mean that people just didn't constantly pad out their posts with "I think my town reads look town" or "I think my neutral reads look neutral", because that's unnecessary.
-
Hi I'm back!
...
WHAT THE HELL. YOU PICKED SCHEZO?!
Omba: Why are you asking me about the townie voting block? that certain list of players? I think they can't all possibly be town, but I think they're all town. This is driving me into a cyclic WIFOM race through space. Any of us wearing town badges should be mortally insulted right now.
My natural gut instinct is to vote Pesco. First, he voted up both the town-flipped now. Secondly, when I ask myself "Who the fuck would nightkill Schezo?" I can clearly see him reasoning that no one wants to vote Schezo anyways and killing him now when it's nebulous. It looks guiltless since Schezo never looked back at Pesco. Hmm. I can see motive for Omba and huh what, and the trail pointing to Hero seems so obvious as to be forged.
Bardiche is my waifu. We are getting married in the Dead QT later.
Oh, I supose you want me to talk about the WAGONS. Which are pretty neat! We got everyone on them! Except for BT who is earning a Newbie Scowl of Doom. I didn't mean for you to just disappear out the door. You should have realized I couldn't hammer the PX wagon. Except for at the end but huh what cut me first. I'd venture to say there's one scum on each instead of a scum concentration. I... just don't know where they would be.
-
... That NK analysis looks pretty forced, given that I was actually calling Schezo as the NK. <___< I would have done the same thing.
-
To elaborate, virtually everyone seemed to have cleared Schezo or at least considered him to lean townie after his wagon died out. Given that he wasn't on the flipped town wagon either, he probably would not have been a possible mislynch any time soon. Scum would most likely want to focus on offing the people they can't lynch due to the set-up.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (0):
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): huh what
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Not Voting: BT, Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba, Shadoweh, JOB, Bardiche, Serela
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~69 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
I on the other hand, am incredibly shocked all of Omba, Pesco and Bardiche lived. I'm not surprised at my own state of living being. You should take more pride and look at it from this angle. Who out there considers YOU less of a threat then SCHEZO the guy who was a scum wagon for one post?
-
Assuming that all three are town, Omba and Pesco were on the flipped townie wagon, and Omba was IMO already lynchable on D1. Bard... actually, I don't know. <_< Maybe he's just scum.
Honestly, I'm not gaining much out of NK analysis at all. Not stopping other people from using it (though I do agree with K4U's quote comparing NK anal and wikipedia) but I think Schezo was a fairly obvious kill.
-
K4U's quote comparing NK anal and wikipedia
*possibly misattributed
-
WIFOM and WIKI!
BAH!
CHESS!!!
GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO Town!
-
##HAMMER: PX
##Vote: PX
I STILL want you to produce content.
Good morning, and I see I wake up to NIGHTKILL ANALYSIS (lol NK anal, Huh Whatty, you card) and Shadoweh suggesting that all of us being alive would be indicative of one of us being scum. Which is a fantastic strategy except scum could reason the same way and keep us alive PRECISELY because people'd reason the smarter people stay alive.
In short it's WIFOM and I can't believe Shadoweh is once again invoking WIFOM as some sort of strategy.
What the hell, Shadoweh?
-
You know, I never understood the concept of WIFOM. More specifically, the wine in front of me is a fallacy because it didn't matter which glass was chosen. They were both poison. He had to look at the bigger picture to realize he shouldn't think about the WIFOM too hard.
-
I'm back and I'm ready to roll. During the night I did a reread of everyone that's still alive. I would post the reads now but Omba not providing his reads first worry me. I too think you should post your reads on them. Then I will post mine.
Also.
NK anal
This made me lol so much.
Oh and my reads were made in notepad so if the formating is lolfail then :dealwithit:
And the reads aren't heavily detailed either, just pointing out my general thought of them and not being hugely specific.
-
I would post the reads now but Omba not providing his reads first worry me. I too think you should post your reads on them. Then I will post mine.
So you have your reads already written out, but want me to post mine first. What difference does me specifically asking for some of them make when you had already planned to post them anyway?
-
You know, I never understood the concept of WIFOM. More specifically, the wine in front of me is a fallacy because it didn't matter which glass was chosen. They were both poison. He had to look at the bigger picture to realize he shouldn't think about the WIFOM too hard.
It's because you can argue either way, and one could argue scum!Shadoweh specifically left those alive so she can pull this argument out now.
Retort?
-
So you have your reads already written out, but want me to post mine first. What difference does me specifically asking for some of them make when you had already planned to post them anyway?
I want to make sure your opinions are original first. Mine are already done so I shouldn't have to change anything.
-
The difference, my dear Bardiche, is that in this case there is a motive that is true, and findable if we look hard enough. You can always argue either way. Arguments can be examined and realized for how weak they are. For example, "Because scum would WANT you to think that!" is the usual dumb answer. NK anal is illegal, why bother rigging them? Don't actually answer that. My point is we should stop dismissing weird occurences.
JOB, dude, Omba isn't going to steal your reads. We'd appreciate it if you told us what you were maybe thinking so we could hit our heads on the table faster.
-
Okay then, I'll post them.
Just remember that this was not supposed to be too in detail, and that it was written before Schezo died.
"Pesco: I think Pesco is very good at getting the point across with little amounts of words. The only information he hasn't given town so far is his Mindhax results (unless he already said them). I think he's town.
PX: PX hasn't said much of use in this game. He has been taking reasons from other people and hasn't even said much at all. I would really like to see an original case on someone today. I think he could very well be scum.
Huhwhat: Huhwhat looks soo town to me. Good, original content, and a good amount of posts. Like Shadoweh said, it's almost impossible to see him as scum. Town.
Omba: I'm not too sure with Omba now. That argument with Schezo seemed to be more in favor of Schezo than Omba (based on towniness), but he is looking more town to me now. He is certainly posting a lot of content, a lot of it is his own too. Currently my main suspicion of him consists of gut. Leaning town with gut read of scum.
Bardiche: I'm still slightly weary of Bardiche. But other than a gut read, I've got nothing on him. Looking very town and is full of content, which is original too. Town with a slight scum gut read.
BT: I am really not sure what to think of BT. A lot of his posts make me go psyduck.jpg. That's probably the newbieness at work there. He is seems so confused at some points, and him not putting his vote down before he went was scummy but still understandable. Because that would've lynched PX. Rereading him makes my brain hurt. Neutral.
NeoSerela: Serela could really do with some more posts. Luckily the ones already there have a lot of content. Serela was being a bit derpy at the start of the game, but I would say the only bad thing they really did was leaving their vote out in the open (especially after saying they didn't do it earlier because it would be suspicious). Leaning town.
Hero999 (because Hero is catchier than Villian): I've already said why I suspect him. The reason being a whole lotta parroting. As said earlier, this isn't much to go on by itself, but he's basically the only good scum read I have other than PX. The reason why Hero parroting a large amount means his scum, is because he's basically said nothing else of value throughout the game. And suspecting someone only because of meta is stupid and is a highly scummy thing to do. Definitely leaning scum.
Dormio: Hasn't said much at all, though being busy excuses him from that, I do hope you post more from now on. I need more posts to really determine what I think. He has made some content within the small amount of posts he has made, but I don't think it's enough to go by. Neutral."
-
I'm going to solely NK obvious mislynch targets next time I roll scum. It'll be awesome.
Also, there shouldn't be such a hassle over posting reads on other players in the first place. <_< It should just be something you do at the start of the day automatically assuming there aren't more important matters to attend to (which there aren't in this case as far as I'm aware). Blargh. Requiring significant prodding to post opinions is for scum and I still have no idea why Omba needs people to comment on the "Townie Voting Block" -Shadoweh before he talks.
-
I was suspicious of Omba because he is my strongest gut read. So it's natural for me to be suspicious of him (because why wouldn't you be suspicious of someone you think is scum).
If it was someone else I probably wouldn't have had a problem posting them. Except with that reread of Hero, which I said I was planning to do today because low content makes me unable to get a really good read on him and I didn't want to vote him that day either, because I was already voting PX..
-
Asking for reads because of :reasons:. Anyway.
##Vote huh what
I did a quick iso re-read of all the players on that little list of mine just now and surprise. He's the only one who so far managed to elegantly avoid getting his hands dirty one way or another.
-
How would you feel about a Schezo lynch?
If I would be willing to "put my gut on something", it'd be on one of ActionDan or Schezo, so I have no problem changing my vote to the other. There's still plenty of time left though, no need to push for majority this early.
##Vote BT
-
Asking for reads because of :reasons:. Anyway.
##Vote huh what
I did a quick iso re-read of all the players on that little list of mine just now and surprise. He's the only one who so far managed to elegantly avoid getting his hands dirty one way or another.
So why am I scum? Furthermore, why are you choosing only to scumhunt within a select group of players?
-
Nice load of active lurking by SHadoweh and zero scumhunting. Stick down a vote for us won't you? And you still haven't answered the question I asked you yesterday.
How about you tell me why you're not voting for scum?
-
Pesco: Really? Is that really what you'd call an excuse to vote me? I'm not the only one who had that opinion at that point (I'm pretty sure you were one of them, too). Not only that, but this kind of thing isn't something to warrant a lynch in the first place.
I share the same concern shown in huh what's post (the one before this one). As much as it's also a good way to start the day, it's also kind of weird. Why stay within the same pool of players? It's like saying "hey, I know for sure we were on track last time so let's just stay on these people because obviously some of them are scum".
-
So why am I scum? Furthermore, why are you choosing only to scumhunt within a select group of players?
Because you read like a good player, but not like a specifically town player. Unless you have a power role, these two should generally directly correlate. And in this set-up, I know for a fact that you have no power role that would warrant a different way of playing (to avoid getting NK'ed etc.). I haven't seen you show disregard for appearances. In other games, I'd call out the narrow focus each of the players on the list including myself have shown as scummy. But since this tell obviously doesn't work so far in this game, I've looked one step further and there, only you still fit. Hence scum.
Examples of what I'm missing from you: Shadoweh went 'gut vote Pesco', Pesco did whatever he could to get the ActionDan wagon to majority, Bardiche similarly worked for the PX wagon and I beat people with a big stick to get ActionDan lynched in the end.
I'm not looking only at this specific group of players. But I'm generally dissatisfied with the other cases that could be built from what content we have so far. We have a lot of players that produce enough shit to last us way beyond LyLo if we continue like we have.
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Yeah, I'm leaving. For the people that really wanted to see my vote, it's too bad, since now I can't cast it. I made my opinion clear, though, which should be enough at this stage.
Not good enough. You should have been ready to post what you had irrespective of whether or not PX came around again.
You didn't care either way on a Schezo/Dan choice. Then at the end of the day between Dan and PX you ditched posting more information than to let town know exactly what you thought.
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How is Shadoweh going 'gut vote <player>' a pro-town thing?
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How is Shadoweh going 'gut vote <player>' a pro-town thing?
It might be (if she actually went with her gut like she said and thought it might lead to finding scum). It might also be scum motivated. The relevant part is that it's something that she could get attacked for and more importantly, something that she most likely knew she could be attacked for when she decided to post it and still went ahead with it.
I.e., I'm not saying it is an indication of her being town. But an absence of things like this is an indication of being scum.
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So you base my lynch off of a stupid reason, then find a (slightly related but) different reason when you realize that won't work? Ok.
I believe I told the town as much about my 'thoughts' as I could muster. I've never had to deal with scum-hunting like this before, so saying I'm "lost" is kind of an understatement. Despite this, I tried making an opinion, and this ended up being, consequentially, mostly based on others' posts.
Maybe a little explanation on my play-style so far is in order. At first I was wary of Schezo and ActionDan, because that seemed to be the consensus (yes, I know how terrible this is, no need to say anything). Then, to try and produce my own opinion without knowing how to properly scum-hunt, I tried finding inconsistencies and basing stuff off of logic. As a result, I had less INFO to post and more opinions. I'm not holding back from posting info, it's just that I don't have any in the first place. Call this scummy all you want, but it's the truth.
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RE: Omba: You fail to consider the possibility I might not be making risky moves that will get me attacked because I have no pro-town reason to take risky moves that will get me attacked. <_< Do you expect me to go out of my way to make myself a potential target just so that people with weird logic will think I'm town? Townies aren't going to try to make polarizing moves if they aren't put in a situation where they feel that the move they are making is benificial to the town overall, and I have not yet been put in one of those situations. You seem to be voting me over a null tell and possibly even just because my playstyle isn't notably aggressive. Bleh.
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The difference, my dear Bardiche, is that in this case there is a motive that is true, and findable if we look hard enough. You can always argue either way. Arguments can be examined and realized for how weak they are. For example, "Because scum would WANT you to think that!" is the usual dumb answer. NK anal is illegal, why bother rigging them? Don't actually answer that. My point is we should stop dismissing weird occurences.
I read this a few times to try and understand. I've failed. So long as you understand I'm unwilling to vote anyone based off of purely WIFOM reasoning like you employ, and that I'll be combing through your posts shortly to see if I should even excuse your attempts now to push WIFOM in a game heavy on newbies. Because I don't like it, not a bit.
Now you say that in this case there is a motive that is both (a) true and (b) findable if we look hard enough. Given you believe in this theory of yours, why not commence the search for the reason so we can all follow your line of thought other than "GUT!", because I think "GUT!" is being thrown around so much this game it becomes difficult to understand who are bandwagon hopping and who really just don't have reasons other than a warm fuzzy feeling somewhere between the pelvis and tummy button.
I'll admit I'm somewhat miffed I didn't get my PX lynch yesterday after you were the one talking about voting the real lurker instead of trying to lynch the fake lurker (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728141.html#msg728141), and speculating that Dan is green. You later backpedal (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728887.html#msg728887) to state that you haven't gotten a Town feeling from Dan yet. Which is it now? Looks like a convenient bandwagon hop to me. Yeah no, you're gonna have to explain this in a satisfying way, missy.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Bardiche: I'm still slightly weary of Bardiche. But other than a gut read, I've got nothing on him. Looking very town and is full of content, which is original too. Town with a slight scum gut read.
ヽ(；▽；)ノ Amazing.
Why is Shadoweh absent from your list?
JOB: I am really not sure what to think of JOB. A lot of his posts make me go psyduck.jpg. That's probably the newbieness at work there. He is seems so confused at some points. Rereading him makes my brain hurt. Probably Town: I haven't seen scum throwing in the towel yet.
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Why is Shadoweh absent from your list?
Fuck I must've forgotten her. I'll reread her now.
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RE: Omba: You fail to consider the possibility I might not be making risky moves that will get me attacked because I have no pro-town reason to take risky moves that will get me attacked. <_< Do you expect me to go out of my way to make myself a potential target just so that people with weird logic will think I'm town? Townies aren't going to try to make polarizing moves if they aren't put in a situation where they feel that the move they are making is benificial to the town overall, and I have not yet been put in one of those situations. You seem to be voting me over a null tell and possibly even just because my playstyle isn't notably aggressive. Bleh.
Cut by weird-looking wagons. I'll switch to PX if necessary, haven't found him very impressive and still think Dan is looking townie. Hero is my preferred lynch regardless.
This is where you try to get the guy lynched you would like to see dead. Oh, wait, no. It's the part where you didn't. A few posts above yours you have Pesco posting one huge case on Dan. Considering you later post this
I think Dan and Pesco are just two townies with opposing viewpoints.
you would have had ample reason to really push for a Hero lynch; get your preferred lynch, save your town read. Going 'yeah, I'd rather lynch that guy, but this one is fine too' doesn't cut it.
There's an ever so slight difference between a not aggressive style of playing and not actually caring.
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Okay then.
"Shadoweh: Shadoweh is an..... interesting character. But overall she seems town to me (yeah that's right, Shadoweh = scum town for once) She seems to be making good content and a decent amount of posts. Although I still would like her to answer this:Give an example of a disjointed post and a thought out post. I want to see what you mean. Because that is most likely my personality showing in mafia.
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##Vote Shadoweh
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~
Highly dislike Shadoweh.
Although she pushes PX's lynch, she keeps wording it so that she can easily jump between PX and ActionDan's wagons.
EG: I trust in the feelings of Dan's wagon and haven't gotten a town read from him yet. My own selfish self wants to ride PX into the sunset.
So like, you're just going to blindly sheep onto the wagon despite the fact that you see PX as scum, and have been seeing him as scum for the entirety of D1.
I'll admit I'm somewhat miffed I didn't get my PX lynch yesterday after you were the one talking about voting the real lurker instead of trying to lynch the fake lurker (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728141.html#msg728141), and speculating that Dan is green. You later backpedal (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728887.html#msg728887) to state that you haven't gotten a Town feeling from Dan yet. Which is it now? Looks like a convenient bandwagon hop to me. Yeah no, you're gonna have to explain this in a satisfying way, missy.
This is a thing too.
After having called PX scum for so long yesterday, Shadoweh has yet to mention or even vote for him yet today? ???
I mean it's slike sersiouly.
She like throwing around NK speculation that's not going to go anywhere.
She's also trying to create confusion by grabbing a list of the more active people in D1 and saying "omg they didn't die obviously there's scum inside that group".
I mean, even if you ignore aow bad doing that by sitsle f is since it creates suspicion and atteampts to get people tp tunnel just on that group of people, all it is sis just noise.
noiseonoisenoisenoinseoinse.
Adn then Swadoweh sayas to job that like he should post hits reads when she's braely doing that herlself..
I mean it's like she said atojng about pesco but then you lave stuff lie:
WHAT THE HELL. YOU PICKED SCHEZO?!
but thens he lisek explains herlsfe what motivation scumf might ave had to kill schaezo.
My natural gut instinct is to vote Pesco. First, he voted up both the town-flipped now. Secondly, when I ask myself "Who the fuck would nightkill Schezo?" I can clearly see him reasoning that no one wants to vote Schezo anyways and killing him now when it's nebulous. It looks guiltless since Schezo never looked back at Pesco. Hmm. I can see motive for Omba and huh what, and the trail pointing to Hero seems so obvious as to be forged.
anfd thens the goes bakc to lietk saying omg why woud you kill schezoll.e no way scum would kill shcezo.
I on the other hand, am incredibly shocked all of Omba, Pesco and Bardiche lived. I'm not surprised at my own state of living being. You should take more pride and look at it from this angle. Who out there considers YOU less of a threat then SCHEZO the guy who was a scum wagon for one post?
okay i think my braing melaited as i rwite this post.
i'm going to sleep or saomting
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I'ADSMG NOT DSGRUNKO HERO SDVCEREW YOU
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So you base my lynch off of a stupid reason, then find a (slightly related but) different reason when you realize that won't work? Ok.
I believe I told the town as much about my 'thoughts' as I could muster. I've never had to deal with scum-hunting like this before, so saying I'm "lost" is kind of an understatement. Despite this, I tried making an opinion, and this ended up being, consequentially, mostly based on others' posts.
Maybe a little explanation on my play-style so far is in order. At first I was wary of Schezo and ActionDan, because that seemed to be the consensus (yes, I know how terrible this is, no need to say anything). Then, to try and produce my own opinion without knowing how to properly scum-hunt, I tried finding inconsistencies and basing stuff off of logic. As a result, I had less INFO to post and more opinions. I'm not holding back from posting info, it's just that I don't have any in the first place. Call this scummy all you want, but it's the truth.
So what? It doesn't excuse your actions on Day 1. The only way you don't have any info is because you aren't actively scumhunting. The only truth in the game is what the mod says is true.
There's a reason I wanted PX to say his stuff: I'm currently leaning towards a PX lynch, and I wanted to hear him out, but he's been online for ample time now and I'm not seeing anything. Now, I've been in this kind of scenario before, where a suspect spouts irrelevant info out of possible panic and before likely demise. This could be one of two things: a townie trying to share his suspicions/what he thinks is important info with the rest of the town, or scum trying to mislead the town in order to survive. I know it's in order to survive because, if he DOES die, the town would automatically discard any of his prior cases, making this a waste. And, if this really is the case, Dan went for Hero and not PX, even though I think PX was the more suspected of the two at the time (I think he had one vote more on him, as well), so this could also mean that PX is scum. If it's the former, though (the panicked town), I've been in this scenario before. And the former is usually the case.
It is now ten minutes before 2:00 AM. Unless I see a plea from PX to convince me otherwise in this time, I'm casting the final vote.
At this post I believe you could have hammered if you so wished. You state that you would, but you don't. If you did, it would have been a clear sign of you wanting PX lynched over Dan. Why would you be afraid of delivering on a commitment you told everyone?
Prior to this waiting for PX post, you've never shown any interest in him. So where did it come from and where did your "My official vote on Dan is put on hold" thing go?
Shadoweh had better give us a wall when she posts again. I don't want to read some shoddy attempt at copying a Kitten's playstyle. I want to hear Shadoweh's ORIGINAL methods.
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@Huh What: You believe I'm scum, yet if you truly believe that then why did you switch you ActionDan, someone I was after all game?
He was also someone who you had a Town read. Are you that willing to give the "scum" the satisfaction in obtaining his lynch?
Schezo believed ActionDan to be town, he refused to move his vote even near end day. You compromised with voting anyone, even your town read.
##Vote Huh What
@Omba: For your question,
Omba: Feels like a leader. Wary, but town read.
Huh what: Mentioned in the above content.
Shadoweh: The sudden swap as mentioned by Bard, is suspicious. Still, Neutral leaning scum.
Stupid net refusing to connect
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Why would you be afraid of delivering on a commitment you told everyone?
1) Shadoweh asked me not to. Hammering before time is generally bad for the town, unless I was 100% sure my action was going to benefit the town, of course. Which leads me to:
2) PX didn't defend himself yet. As long as he didn't defend himself, there was a chance of my (and other's) opinion changing. At the time, I WAS going to hammer him. Presently, I still would have hammered him, seeing as his defense wasn't really a defense. But, since the chance existed, I thought giving those extra two hours, and in that letting PX defend himself, would benefit the town MORE than just hammering it then. I was wrong, but it was a logical move back then.
Prior to this waiting for PX post, you've never shown any interest in him. So where did it come from and where did your "My official vote on Dan is put on hold" thing go?
One of two people were going to get lynched: ActionDan or PX. At first, I thought ActionDan's posts seemed like panicked scum, which I tried explaining at the time. Then, his following posts made me re-examine the situation, and made me think that he's actually town, which I explained in the post you quoted. Seeing as there were only two options (him and PX), did I even need to be 'interested' in PX to vote for him? In my eyes, ActionDan was leaning towards town and PX was a big 'I have no idea'. Obviously, I was going to vote for the latter, although I wasn't happy with both choices, and I don't think most of the others were.
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Hammer when you decide there's caught scum. Waiting until deadline to have a lynch is a bad habit that needs to be beaten out of you people. What gives if Shadoweh asked you to not hammer? Was she confirmed town?
PX didn't defend himself yet. As long as he didn't defend himself, there was a chance of my (and other's) opinion changing.
Because PX didn't defend himself, your opinion of him could change...
PX not posting anything to change the opinions of him, meant that your opinion of him could still change...
Why? There's something horribly disconnected going on here.
Dan, if prepping a Pesco case is your main concern, why are you making a counterwagon out of one of Hero/PX? If you believe it will convince us that he is, in fact, obvscum, the counterwagon is completely unneeded, and for the sake of momentary survival all you had to do was, well, ask for momentary survival. "Don't get majority on me until I'm done posting this" or something like that. And if you think whatever you're tying to post now WON'T lead to a Pesco lynch, shouldn't your focus be on making a better Hero case? This split-focus confuses me.
Opinions don't come from nowhere. This is the last thing you say about Dan. It doesn't tell me that you thought him town. The last indication of your stance on him was that your vote should count as being on the guy, which implies that you want him lynched for being scum.
When you tell us that you're willing to Hammer PX, it means that you think he's scum or that you think his lynch is the better one to have if we're faced with a mad dash for deadline. You say you were waiting for him to post a defense, but I don't see you fielding him any questions. What exactly do you want the guy to defend himself from then? If he posts, he's answering to other people. He's not specifically replying to what you want to know about him. You don't mention anyone else's questions directed at him that you think he should definitely answer. What do you want him to post a defense on?
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Hammer when you decide there's caught scum. Waiting until deadline to have a lynch is a bad habit that needs to be beaten out of you people. What gives if Shadoweh asked you to not hammer? Was she confirmed town?
Because PX didn't defend himself, your opinion of him could change...
PX not posting anything to change the opinions of him, meant that your opinion of him could still change...
Why? There's something horribly disconnected going on here.
*What 'caught scum'? The situation wasn't Scum/Neutral -- it was Neutral/Town.
*She wasn't confirmed town, nor was she confirmed scum. All her comment did was make me reconsider my action. I realized there were two more hours (not one), and that I may not be giving PX enough time, so I reconsidered.
*What makes you think he didn't want to defend himself? I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that he's in PST earlier in the thread, so not having a chance to defend himself, rather than choosing not to defend himself, is perfectly possible.
Opinions don't come from nowhere. This is the last thing you say about Dan. It doesn't tell me that you thought him town. The last indication of your stance on him was that your vote should count as being on the guy, which implies that you want him lynched for being scum.
Yes, OK. How does this contradict with what I'm saying? I thought he was slightly scum, then I thought he was slightly town. This post was still in the process of changing my perspective, but yes, my vote was still going to be on Dan at the time. It wasn't after his spree of random posts that I changed my mind.
When you tell us that you're willing to Hammer PX, it means that you think he's scum or that you think his lynch is the better one to have if we're faced with a mad dash for deadline. You say you were waiting for him to post a defense, but I don't see you fielding him any questions. What exactly do you want the guy to defend himself from then? If he posts, he's answering to other people. He's not specifically replying to what you want to know about him. You don't mention anyone else's questions directed at him that you think he should definitely answer. What do you want him to post a defense on?
Who says I was going to question him? As I noted a few times back then, it was really late for me. All I wanted from him is an indication that he's ready to defend himself, then hopefully to see some of this defense and possibly change my mind. I didn't have any questions for him regardless, maybe aside from "why do you post so little" -- he posted so little, I didn't have what to ask about! Let me repeat: he was NEUTRAL. I didn't have any opinion on him. So, when I had a bad opinion on Dan, my vote was on Dan, and when I had a good opinion on Dan, my vote was on PX. This doesn't mean I had anything at all against PX, or anything to ask him about. I was hoping that the people who voted for him originally had the questions, so ultimately, they would be doing the questioning.
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Dormio (0):
huh what (2): Omba, Hero999
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (0):
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): huh what
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Not Voting: BT, PX, Shadoweh, JOB, Serela
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~58 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
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BT: I don't think I get your method of hunting scum. And you're currently doing a great job of transparently trying to weasel your way out of this. What I can gather from your words is that you didn't really have anything close to a real read on anyone.
As for that Shadoweh thing. Not convinced talking about NK WIFOM is indicative of her being scum. Thinking about that NK is what initially got me to take an especially close look at the players I haven't done much on so far; I can see why she'd think there definitely has to be a theoretically discernible motive, although I don't see how she would be able to definitively find out what the reason for the NK actually was. Because I sure couldn't. Would like to hear her explanation on that part specifically.
I'm... not sure concerning the way she switched wagons at the end of day, either. I changed my own opinions rather radically some time before that after reading Pesco's Dan case, so it stands to reason that me pointing out the disconnects in her opinion and the resulting vote here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728898.html#msg728898) could have similarly changed her mind. Still, not liking that she didn't spot that disconnect herself that close to a lynch.
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Villain999: Anyone else you think is scummy, as opposed to maybe scummy maybe neutral not really sure?
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RE: Omba: The point I switched was when the Hero wagon was pretty obviously hopeless. If you re-read the thread you'll notice that I did try to get people to comment on Hero, they just didn't buy the case. I didn't press further because heckling people for disagreeing with me isn't convincing, just annoying and likely to clog up the thread. That, and I wasn't going to magically spring up a gigantic Hero wagon at the end of the day when he had 2 votes and the other wagons had 5 given the people around. So yeah, you're voting me on playstyle and unfortunate circumstances.
RE: Hero: Well maybe I voted him because everybody else was being stubborn at deadline and I didn't want a randomlynch? <_< It's not like Dan was confirmed town to me, and a lynch that the town agrees on is better than something decided by Keine. Your content is still really weak if this and a waffly Shadoweh stance are all you have at this point, why are people not voting for this. Gut tells me you're voting me because I'm attacking you and you want a wagon to take off on me from Omba's vote (read: OMGUS).
J.O.B and BT (Shadoweh too but she's actually getting called out for it) are posting a lot today but don't actually have their vote down on who they think is scum. This makes me frown. Come to think of it, I haven't heard any opinions from BT at all today, which is irritating because he was slow to comment on anything yesterday as well. I'd say he's worse than J.O.B on this account, actually. Could be convinced to switch to him but would probably want to ISO him first.
I want to hear from Dormio about people who aren't Shadoweh! His recent post makes me feel better about him because it looks consistent, but I still can't tell where he stands about everybody else.
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Also, Pesco, what's your actual opinion on Shadoweh? You've been taking occasional shots at her but I can't tell if it's coming from irritation or suspicion.
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I'm willing to vote Shadoweh for being scum on the grounds of active lurking and zero scumhunting (going by the stuff she's posted).
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RE: Omba: The point I switched was when the Hero wagon was pretty obviously hopeless. If you re-read the thread you'll notice that I did try to get people to comment on Hero, they just didn't buy the case. I didn't press further because heckling people for disagreeing with me isn't convincing, just annoying and likely to clog up the thread. That, and I wasn't going to magically spring up a gigantic Hero wagon at the end of the day when he had 2 votes and the other wagons had 5 given the people around. So yeah, you're voting me on playstyle and unfortunate circumstances.
Obviously the hero wagon had pretty much no chance of succeeding left here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728764.html#msg728764), but here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728674.html#msg728674) it was still on par with the PX wagon.
And I call bullshit on this. Three posts above this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728674.html#msg728674) of yours is me switching my vote after Pesco really hammered the Dan case home. There's no excuse for thinking you had no chance of similarly convincing people, unless you weren't that sure of your preferred case yourself. And actually, me nagging people was part of what got Dan instead of PX lynched in the end, so doubly no excuse there. And this coming from the one who called me out on trying to convince Schezo that he's scum, rather than convincing other people that Schezo is scum, seems kind of ironic.
As for the part where you actually tried to convince people to vote Hero... this one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728078.html#msg728078)? Or this one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728315.html#msg728315)? Apart from that, the only thing you've done to get a Hero lynch is pretty much saying 'yeah, I'd prefer to lynch Hero, if you guys are cool with it'.
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BT: I don't think I get your method of hunting scum. And you're currently doing a great job of transparently trying to weasel your way out of this. What I can gather from your words is that you didn't really have anything close to a real read on anyone.
Come to think of it, I haven't heard any opinions from BT at all today, which is irritating because he was slow to comment on anything yesterday as well. I'd say he's worse than J.O.B on this account, actually. Could be convinced to switch to him but would probably want to ISO him first.
OK, from now on I'll be doing my best to stop this trend of blaming everything I do itg on my horrible lack of scumhunting experience, but-- I suck at scumhunting. I said this way too many times and am currently doing my best to improve and/or be less reliant on it, but this generally causes me to be really slow with my cases (if they can even be called cases), act weird and whatever else bad you have in mind. D1 is currently a pain for me to reread but despite this I'll do my best to establish my opinion on everyone by the end of today (which for me is in a few hours). So, yeah, I'll be working on that now.
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Also can someone please tell me what ISO means?
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Isolation. As in, viewing only the posts one player has made in the thread. One way to do this: Click on the user's name to get to their profile, then click "Show Posts".
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Hammer when you decide there's caught scum. Waiting until deadline to have a lynch is a bad habit that needs to be beaten out of you people.
I agree with this so much. And not just because I like days ending slightly earlier.
Especially because of how the end of D1 went.
I'm not buying into the huhwhat cases. At all. In fact, I dislike them and I think they're terribad. Hero's solely consists of Huhwhat hammering Dan which is terribad because the alternative to Huhwhat hammering Dan was a Keine randomlynch. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting Omba's case but it sounds like "Huhwhat is too not-scummy to be town".
I mean really.
He's the only one who so far managed to elegantly avoid getting his hands dirty one way or another.
...so he's scum because he -didn't- do anything bad?
I have a town read on JOB to add to my Huhwhat town read. Oh and Bard too.
I'm not really sure what Shadoweh's reads on people are supposed to be. Who do you think is scum, again?
Okay. Dormio is neutralish for me. I can still definitely get behind a PX lynch because he still hasn't really improved on any of the great lack from yesterday, although it's to be seen whether he'll improve today or not. I think I would support a Hero lynch, too. Everyone else... my opinions are not stable yet.
Hero, PX, Hero, PX, Hero, PX, hmmm.
##Vote:PX
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Now you say that in this case there is a motive that is both (a) true and (b) findable if we look hard enough. Given you believe in this theory of yours, why not commence the search for the reason so we can all follow your line of thought other than "GUT!" because bla bla gut is evil and it makes you sound like UK who I must also lynches for being SCUM!
Okay, maybe Bard didn't say that last part.
I can show you the reasons I've noted so far.
Pesco's isn't in Schezo's posts, it's the grounds of his voteswitch here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728143.html#msg728143) Huh what outlined the exact motives I would give Pesco for wanting that kill. I didn't expect someone else to follow the train of thought for that.
I thought there was a bigger line on huh what at first. Putting that one aside. Huh what still seems town and I would consider him explaining his nightkill choice to be one of those anti-town mistakes Omba is looking for.
There's a few mentions of wanting Dormio murdered. Dormio is impossible to ISO -.- I can't read half his post from today, if he can concisesly tell what he thinks of people now that would be nice. Minds change, kind of like yours. You said I was townish to you before, what changed?
The main offender is Hero as the one he wanted dead the most. I just can't bring myself to want to vote for him. I want to know why he didn't mention JOB when he was clearly suspicious of him yesterday though.
I'm not just going to revote for PX. His wagon was still as shitty today as it was yesterday. I only have one question for him, and it's serious so he should answer. Why didn't you hammer yourself?
I'm kind of busy today, so you're all going to have to wait a few more hours if you want a vote. I feel like I did in NotV, no one is clear scum to me. I'M SO CONFUSED. IT FEELS SO GOOD! \^_^/
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I can still definitely get behind a PX lynch because he still hasn't really improved on any of the great lack from yesterday, although it's to be seen whether he'll improve today or not. I think I would support a Hero lynch, too. Everyone else... my opinions are not stable yet.
Hero, PX, Hero, PX, Hero, PX, hmmm.
##Vote:PX
How does PX improve if he hasn't posted at all today? You haven't read the game at all and I simply cannot believe you no matter how much you claim you have.
waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle I CAN'T BE ARSED TO PUT DOWN A VOTE OR EVEN SCUMHUNT waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle waffle
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Go away, I don't need your monkey on my back. Your constant mudslinging at my posts without ever addressing them is pretty scummy though.
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I'm kind of busy today, so you're all going to have to wait a few more hours if you want a vote. I feel like I did in NotV, no one is clear scum to me. I'M SO CONFUSED. IT FEELS SO GOOD! \^_^/
HEYAH GUYS OOLLOKG AT HOW TOWNEI I AM I'M INSVOTKING METATATATATATATATTA. WOTHN O CATUAL REASONT O BACK ITO UP OF CORUJSE.
Go away, I don't need your monkey on my back. Your constant mudslinging at my posts without ever addressing them is pretty scummy though.
HAEY IF YOU THNSIK PESCOP SI STCUMMY AND YOU EVENESAID THAT PESOCP WAS SCUMMY EYSTERDAY WHY DON'T YOU CJVOTE HIM/ I MEAN IT'S LIKE YOU HAVD SUSCIPIONS OF PESCO SEYYSTERDAY AND SIET LOOKSL EIKE YOU HAVE THEM AGIANG TODAY SO WHY DOENS'T YOU VOTES HIM. ORA PZ.
oh god whhy was caps on.
i'll make smp[sto lalters hwen my head coesn't hurs.
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Go away, I don't need your monkey on my back. Your constant mudslinging at my posts without ever addressing them is pretty scummy though.
I'll address your posts when you actually post content. You can start by answering the question I asked you yesterday and repeated today. I'm not going to repost or quote it here because that'll just be incentive for you to be lazy and not reread.
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For fuck's sake, Dormio, write legible posts. I can barely read the garbage you're posting.
Shadoweh, can you explain the logic or assuming Pesco NKed Schezo? I didn't get that out of your post, nor the weird disconnect (why does everyone copy me in using this word? :V) between "What does it matter who looks worse when Dan and Schezo are both green?" and "I haven't gotten a town read out of Dan yet". At one hand you try to distangle the Dan wagon to vote PX, and then you jump onto Dan after anyway. I don't follow.
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How does PX improve if he hasn't posted at all today? You haven't read the game at all and I simply cannot believe you no matter how much you claim you have.
wut
I never said he did either of those things. Because he hasn't. Which is why he's still terrible.
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What, why I'm not voting scum? How do you expect me to answer that ever? Especially when I'm voting people I don't know the alignment of. If you ask a stupid question repeatedly and don't get an answer for it, maybe it's because it's a stupid gotcha question, Pesco. Do you think I'm going to take YOUR word that you're not scum if I vote you? Hey Pesco, why were you voting for Schezo? Your gut was wrong and he wasn't scum. Hey Pesco why were you voting for Dan? He wasn't scum either. OBVIOUSLY SINCE YOU WERE VOTING TWO TOWN YOU MUST BE SCUM AMIRITE?!
*takes deep breath*
I expect better then that from you. I seriously think you're just doing it to get a rise out of me. Still scummy, but not scum-intended.
ANYWAYS. Dormio, can you ask Google Translate to make your posts today if you're going to be like this? The simple answer to your question is because I have a habit of voting for whoever annoys me the most and I don't know if I'm tunneling on him for being annoying or because he's actually scum. I think my reasoning for why he's town still holds. Your reasoning for not doing anything but posting junk about me doesn't exist. Opinions, we need them to make choices.
If it makes you all feel better, I have found something that irritates me more:
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
So, Serela. You said here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728537.html#msg728537) that you liked things from both Dan and PX, and you weren't sure of who to vote at the point where they were pretty much the only two wagons. Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728745.html#msg728745) you vote PX over not-Dan because of his continued non-existance. Today, you are voting PX for still being scum? But you never thought he was scum in the first place! You just thought he was the scummier of the two choices! And you're already making it look like that again with a choice between PX and Hero. I want to hear more when you think of everyone else. Like why you randomly thought Pesco was scum but didn't follow up your suspicion.
Bard: Tried to get a wagon running up on him. Wagon dissapated for little to no reason. Kind of being cleared by people. Who would do a kill that effectively trolls all the players like that instead of killing someone pushing discussion? The worrying thought is that someone thought what he did yesterday would make him obvtown later. About the wagons, uhm.. wow I really said that. Now I'm feeling even more trolled by the kill. I changed my mind, is all I can say. The suspicions on his play looked reasonable and I hadn't actually cleared Dan before that. It does make me feel worse about my choice though. I was worried I was tunneling on an early game read and that the wagon I was on had no basis in reality.
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As promised, A BIG WALL OF TEXT.
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Dormio: Eh... I can't say "no content" because he did have some sort of argument against ActionDan. Albeit, that's the only big case he had. All the others were "small pickings" (yes, I have no problem admitting this), which is what makes me want to see more content. It also doesn't look very good, almost like a sort of "ok, I made some cases, now I can stop contributing to the town" attitude. And I'm going to slam my head into somthing if I see another troll post. Neutral-.
huh what: About Omba's claim that you "haven't gotten your hands dirty", I... agree. You've had some helpful and calculated posts, but I'm not sure how huge your contribution to the town really is, and like Omba explained, this kind of behavior could easily be explained by being scum. However, this can also have other explanations (like anything else in mafia), and the little posts he did make are posts I can really agree with. Others posts just raise really interesting conclusions. #180 and #205, for example. In the former, he raises a good point about the Omba vs Schezo incident which I fully agree on. In the latter, he raises a good point against the ActionDan wagon. Notice how both of these players were revealed to be town. Why, I ask you, would scum mitigate rolls against not one but two non-scum? Town.
Bardiche: All of his cases (scratch that-- all of his posts) up to now were pretty well-made. Aside from his first case against Shadoweh, maybe, which I still think was kind of dragged-on, but nothing scummy overall. He was always looking at more than one guy (aka, the opposite of tunneling). His posts were very convinving imo, something that would kind of make a good NK target, but like stuff that's already been said, "NK anal" will bring nothing but WIFOM at this stage, and I agree. (Hell, I think Bard himself was the one to say this) Town.
Omba: Definitely a "village leader" vibe, but not one I'm 100% happy of. For someone who posts so much content, the number of players this content refers to is tiny in comparison. This is why people have been accusing Omba of tunnelling in the past, and although it isn't 100% accurate, the accusation's definitely got some kind of reason for existing. I feel like, once he finds a 'prime' scum pick, he just sticks onto him until something major happens, like the general consensus on that player changing. Kind of like what happened with Schezo. Really, I do agree with most if not all of your content, but the way you're doing it all worries me. Neutral+.
Pesco: Very very similar to Omba in that I agree with most of his content, but the way he plays kind of bugs me. In comparison to Omba, he posts much less content but that's usaully enough. My 'problem' here is not the semi-tunnelling, which partially exists here too (how he was head-on agaisnt Dan from the instance the Schezo incident ended up to the day's conclusion), but the fact that several people had accused him in the duration of the game and his responses were either lacking, stupid or nonexistent. Examples include #97/#98 and #275 (of course)(he instead chooses to reply to his much weaker-based panic posts). Hell, I bet this won't get much attention as well, only proving my point. If you think the accusations lack actual content/reasoning, go ahead and explain why. Don't dismiss them entirely and THEN tell us they're "bad accusations" whe n you're questioned about them. What also annoys me is his consistency at pointing out scummy behavior but almost never expanding on these accusations. This is something I'd call common behavior for a chaos-inducing scum. This usually isn't enough to scream 'scum', but I have other things bugging me which I have yet to identify. Honestly, if not for the exceptionally good content, I probably would have been making a case right about now. Neutral but UGH.
Serela: I honestly can't think of a verdict here. Too little posts, too little influence, too little contribution. Neutral.
PX: Ugh, I don't know. Some of his posts are insightful, some are just plain weird, and some are flat out bandwagoning. I think the reason I don't really have an opinion I can be sure of yet is the fact you've yet to make ONE CASE the entire game. So I suggest you get to that. Neutral-.
Hero999: EXTRAODRINARY CONFUSION. Some of his posts are glaringly bandwagonous, the others I simply can't tell because they confuse me so much. I tried going over his 10 or so posts a few times and I STILL don't understand most of them. And, unless I'm mistaken, and this isn't a result of this confusion, you've not made a single case all game (excluding what might be a very vague huh what case a bit earlier today). Instead, I can identify posts filled mostly (or fully) with questions that only make the town lose progress (questioning the actions of several players at the same time without any huge progress promised in any of them). And if I'm not mistaken, some of these posts went on even near the D1 deadline. Again, I might be exaggerating here, but the combination of little posts along with massive confusion is one I really don't like. I can't, however, claim that you are "absolutely scum". So, Neutral--.
JOB: His 'cases' aren't stellar at all. In fact, I probably disagree with most of them. But he is actively making his opinion known and imo isn't showing any signs of LOOK AT ME I'M SCUM, so it's all good. Honestly don't have much to say here. Neutral+.
Shadoweh: Let's see. At first I had a high opinion here. Then came some kind-of-ill-explained cases along with posts that never really made any breathtaking progress. Still, she was neutral at worst, seeing as I really liked the activity and that there wasn't anything overly scum-like in her posts. Then came the weird shift in vote near the deadline, and I think Bardiche (388#) explains this nicely. Nothing to say here but "I agree with this post", as I really do. Expanding on this myself won't bring to anything new anyway, so I won't bother. Kind of a bad opinion currently, but it could be worse. Neutral-.
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Alright, you might have noticed no 'Scum' and plenty of 'Neutral-'. Well, that's because 1) I'm naturally indicisive and 2) I really don't have a scum pick I'm completely fine with. Despite this, I'm probably the most fine with Hero999, so ##Vote Hero999.
Pesco, there's another thing that bugs me that I didn't mention above. Namely-- what you were doing with me in these last few posts. At first, you fling a dumb case at me. I respond, and you fling yet another case at me. And then you do it AGAIN. If you have something against me, just do it in one big case. There should be no reason for this stupid shenanigan. You're either toying with me, testing me, or just being outright dumb.
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BT is adorable. He's also probably not scum. Get your stupid vote off of him.
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this isn't some kind of test I hope
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>Shadoweh implying she needs to unvote
Were you specifically holding off on voting today until you could snipe someone, Shadoweh?
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Dormio (0):
huh what (2): Omba, Hero999
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (1): Shadoweh
PX (1): Serela
Hero999 (2): huh what, BT
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (2): Bardiche, Dormio
Not Voting: PX, JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~51 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
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>Shadoweh implying she needs to unvote
Were you specifically holding off on voting today until you could snipe someone, Shadoweh?
..It's a habit okay? I forgot I wasn't voting.
I was holding off on voting until I finished playing D&D with UK, actually, so I wouldn't be trying to write paragraphs between Spot checks.
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What, why I'm not voting scum? How do you expect me to answer that ever? Especially when I'm voting people I don't know the alignment of. If you ask a stupid question repeatedly and don't get an answer for it, maybe it's because it's a stupid gotcha question, Pesco. Do you think I'm going to take YOUR word that you're not scum if I vote you? Hey Pesco, why were you voting for Schezo? Your gut was wrong and he wasn't scum. Hey Pesco why were you voting for Dan? He wasn't scum either. OBVIOUSLY SINCE YOU WERE VOTING TWO TOWN YOU MUST BE SCUM AMIRITE?!
The difference between you and me is that I posted a case on why the person I'm voting is scum. You never did that. How convinced were you when you made your vote on me? Not very much if you couldn't bother bringing it to more people's attention. Your voting now is again a weak vote. NeoSerela annoys you, but how is that scummy? Your vote is just going to park on the guy until we need a majority elsewhere.
*What 'caught scum'? The situation wasn't Scum/Neutral -- it was Neutral/Town.
*She wasn't confirmed town, nor was she confirmed scum. All her comment did was make me reconsider my action. I realized there were two more hours (not one), and that I may not be giving PX enough time, so I reconsidered.
*What makes you think he didn't want to defend himself? I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that he's in PST earlier in the thread, so not having a chance to defend himself, rather than choosing not to defend himself, is perfectly possible.
Yes, OK. How does this contradict with what I'm saying? I thought he was slightly scum, then I thought he was slightly town. This post was still in the process of changing my perspective, but yes, my vote was still going to be on Dan at the time. It wasn't after his spree of random posts that I changed my mind.
Who says I was going to question him? As I noted a few times back then, it was really late for me. All I wanted from him is an indication that he's ready to defend himself, then hopefully to see some of this defense and possibly change my mind. I didn't have any questions for him regardless, maybe aside from "why do you post so little" -- he posted so little, I didn't have what to ask about! Let me repeat: he was NEUTRAL. I didn't have any opinion on him. So, when I had a bad opinion on Dan, my vote was on Dan, and when I had a good opinion on Dan, my vote was on PX. This doesn't mean I had anything at all against PX, or anything to ask him about. I was hoping that the people who voted for him originally had the questions, so ultimately, they would be doing the questioning.
Caught scum is a matter of how strongly you believe in the guy being lynched is scum. The choices are to announce no intention to hammer (you don't believe the person to be scum and WILL NOT agree to their lynch) or to announce intention to hammer AND specify that you think the person is scum OR specify that you're only willing to hammer because it's deadline. All three of these options tell everyone exactly what your stance is.
The fact remains that Shadoweh is unconfirmed. Why do you accommodate the request of an unconfirmed player? Why don't you decide for yourself what to do instead of following another player's whim?
I know that PX is unlikely to respond because he's playing DotS. That's the DotS meta of his activity in general. When I know he won't show even if you vote him to death, there is absolutely no point in waiting for him to respond.
Your opinion changed and you never told anyone of that while there was still time. Explaining it in retrospect leaves it an unknown factor.
Leaving the questions to other people is lack of scumhunting. Does it make you look bad to attack someone you can't get a read on? Are you afraid? You don't have questions for PX translates to you have no scumhunting intent on him.
Pesco, there's another thing that bugs me that I didn't mention above. Namely-- what you were doing with me in these last few posts. At first, you fling a dumb case at me. I respond, and you fling yet another case at me. And then you do it AGAIN. If you have something against me, just do it in one big case. There should be no reason for this stupid shenanigan. You're either toying with me, testing me, or just being outright dumb.
And we'll keep responding to each other after every post. The more we post, the more people can get a read on us. Do you consider it noise what we're arguing about? If so, why?
Your big wall of text gets us nowhere because you kinda lack people you're willing to call scum and fight with them about it. Your vote sucks and I called it out before already.
It's always better to vote scum than prod maybes.
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##Vote Serela
I looked through all your posts and I manged to find no scumhunting, cases, or even reasons why you're voting people other than "Gut! =D" All the reads I can get from you are "This guy is town", and that's not good.
Bigger post coming after class.
Cut by giant wall post what?
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Oh right, and another interesting thing is that Omba still hasn't posted his opinions of the people he asked everyone to post about. Did everyone forget about that?
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I can show you the reasons I've noted so far.
Pesco's isn't in Schezo's posts, it's the grounds of his voteswitch here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728143.html#msg728143) Huh what outlined the exact motives I would give Pesco for wanting that kill. I didn't expect someone else to follow the train of thought for that.
Errr... yes, that might be one possible reason, although I think it's a pretty bad one. Now what about all the other possible motives that point in completely other directions?
Using something like that as a reason to look into a certain direction is fine. But actually using it as a reason for a vote is wtf, "gut vote" or not. That you didn't actually go through with that vote doesn't make it better.
Huh what still seems town and I would consider him explaining his nightkill choice to be one of those anti-town mistakes Omba is looking for.
Don't think so. Especially not since you started discussing the NK, so it was already clear you'd be taking the flak for it.
Oh, also. Pesco summing up that post of yours with "waffle" was not mudslinging, but pretty damn fitting.
What, why I'm not voting scum? How do you expect me to answer that ever? Especially when I'm voting people I don't know the alignment of. If you ask a stupid question repeatedly and don't get an answer for it, maybe it's because it's a stupid gotcha question, Pesco. Do you think I'm going to take YOUR word that you're not scum if I vote you? Hey Pesco, why were you voting for Schezo? Your gut was wrong and he wasn't scum. Hey Pesco why were you voting for Dan? He wasn't scum either. OBVIOUSLY SINCE YOU WERE VOTING TWO TOWN YOU MUST BE SCUM AMIRITE?!
Are you intentionally misunderstanding his question here? He's not asking you why the players you vote for don't flip scum. I fail to see how you could even think he meant that, given the question was asked before anyone had flipped. He's asking you why you're not voting for someone you strongly believe to be scum because of :reasons:. That retort of yours is all kinds of horrible.
PX: I guess I got all I could out of that question, so reads on those here:
huh what - well, obvious since I'm voting him right now
Pesco & Bardiche - unchanged so far, which is to say both are still my only town reads; reasonable cases, not afraid to take clear stances
Shadoweh - Is looking increasingly bad. Would lynch if huh what magically died.
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Caught scum is a matter of how strongly you believe in the guy being lynched is scum. The choices are to announce no intention to hammer (you don't believe the person to be scum and WILL NOT agree to their lynch) or to announce intention to hammer AND specify that you think the person is scum OR specify that you're only willing to hammer because it's deadline. All three of these options tell everyone exactly what your stance is.
So, since I didn't hammer, I didn't think there was 'caught scum'. What's your point?
The fact remains that Shadoweh is unconfirmed. Why do you accommodate the request of an unconfirmed player? Why don't you decide for yourself what to do instead of following another player's whim?
And suddenly respecting an "unconfirmed player"'s wishes is some kind of scummy behavior? You're going to be dealing with "unconfirmed players" for the bulk of the game. Also, I wasn't "accommodating her request", I changed my mind after her request made me re-examine the situation. It's not the request, it's the re-examination.
[/quote]
Your opinion changed and you never told anyone of that while there was still time. Explaining it in retrospect leaves it an unknown factor.
I made a post about wanting PX to be heard before I vote (#292). If this isn't a hint of a possible change of heart, I don't know what is.
Leaving the questions to other people is lack of scumhunting. Does it make you look bad to attack someone you can't get a read on? Are you afraid? You don't have questions for PX translates to you have no scumhunting intent on him.
Didn't I already explain how PX was completely neutral to me? I know I found some credibility for his roll while making the "big wall of text", but back then, he was literally completely neutral. I didn't know exactly what he was doing wrong (aside from not posting), but why does this make me have no 'scumhunting intent'? I did, I just had nowhere to start from. I wanted to see questions asked and answers to those questions so I could establish an opinion on him that way. Obviously, there wasn't going to be any time for me to do that, but that was the original plan.
And we'll keep responding to each other after every post. The more we post, the more people can get a read on us. Do you consider it noise what we're arguing about? If so, why?
If 'noise' translates to something completely unneeded, then no, as people getting a read on us automatically makes it worth something. Explanation accepted.
Your big wall of text gets us nowhere because you kinda lack people you're willing to call scum and fight with them about it. Your vote sucks and I called it out before already.
No. My big wall of text wasn't in order to find and debate against scum, but this is more of a welcome result if it happens. Yes, it did not, so what was the actual purpose of this?
Obviously, to make my thoughts known. That's what people want, isn't it? What I think about players, how much credibility I give to each, who I suspect, who I trust, the works. This wall of text helps people understand where I currently stand, what my thought process is, and who I'm willing to lynch more than others. Ultimately, it allows for people to get a very good read of me, and like you said in this very post, that's something that's worth the time, isn't it?
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Also, that's very nice of you to completely discredit my vote just because I'm not 100% certain about it. Maybe I'm 99% certain? Maybe I just want to hear more out of him? Maybe this is all just a result of a big gut feeling?
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My case is not that Serela annoys me. What the hell. I think he sounds like he knows all the wagons are town, and that's why he didn't want to vote for either of them, then forgot he never had a reason to vote PX when he voted him again today. Does that make more sense to you? It could also make other people look at him and realize yes, he could be scum. You don't mention what you think of him while you're busy deriding my vote. What's your opinion, Overlord Pescorz?
...Uhm, PX, that's really not.. Ugh. Way to make me feel uncomfortable with my vote. Bigger post sooner, please. It's my fault you're alive, you know, I expect you to use your livingness usefully. I will make you talk.
Omba: I listed multiple motives. Why are you quoting me as if I only looked at Pesco? Why do you even say it would be wrong to vote just for that, then say not voting was wrong? You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You don't even comment that I'm voting for someone else. This is suspiciously bad reasoning for attacking me. Stop it.
And his "question" was put forth when I was voting for him. It was really "Why are you voting for me?" which answers itself. The second time was answered by "Because I'll vote when I'm good and ready you damn rabbit".
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Does that make more sense to you? It could also make other people look at him and realize yes, he could be scum.
Yes, I agree, he could be scum. So? Are there really no better alternatives? There are plenty of possible 'could-be scums' at this stage.
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Omba, did you read the part of my wall about HW? If not, read it. I want your opinion on it.
For reference:
huh what: About Omba's claim that you "haven't gotten your hands dirty", I... agree. You've had some helpful and calculated posts, but I'm not sure how huge your contribution to the town really is, and like Omba explained, this kind of behavior could easily be explained by being scum. However, this can also have other explanations (like anything else in mafia), and the little posts he did make are posts I can really agree with. Others posts just raise really interesting conclusions. #180 and #205, for example. In the former, he raises a good point about the Omba vs Schezo incident which I fully agree on. In the latter, he raises a good point against the ActionDan wagon. Notice how both of these players were revealed to be town. Why, I ask you, would scum mitigate rolls against not one but two non-scum? Town.
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That's really interesting but what do you think of the actual points I've raised against him? Your opinion on it isn't as interesting to me as Serela's response. I would hope he returns soon to comment on it rather then letting me add lurking harder then the Godfather from Darker then Black to the list.
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Omba: I listed multiple motives. Why are you quoting me as if I only looked at Pesco? Why do you even say it would be wrong to vote just for that, then say not voting was wrong? You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You don't even comment that I'm voting for someone else. This is suspiciously bad reasoning for attacking me. Stop it.
And his "question" was put forth when I was voting for him. It was really "Why are you voting for me?" which answers itself. The second time was answered by "Because I'll vote when I'm good and ready you damn rabbit".
I meant: It's still bad, even if you didn't actually put the vote down with that reasoning. And yes, you named a few other players the kill might implicate. What you didn't explicitly mention is that there's reasonable motives for pretty much all of the players; and considering we've got quite a few new players, we've got even more possible NK motives (all the bad ones). And what does you voting someone now have to do with your reasoning many hours before?
And no, that answer doesn't cut it. He specifically called you out on going for the lolgut vote instead of really pushing a case. That he happened to be the target of your vote does not somehow excuse you from answering the question. No, really, it doesn't. Never.
BT: That question was specifically directed at me? Ok then. Most obvious reason: Defending players later revealed to be town can make the defender look town. And for the Dan thing specifically: In case both Dan and PX are town, scum would have absolutely nothing to lose by defending one of them. They'd still have a town lynch. Moreover, defending town is easier for scum than hunting scum. They already know that whatever the other players are doing is town-motivated (or laziness / ...).
Hence doesn't tell me anything because it's a completely reasonable thing to do both as town and as scum.
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I think he sounds like he knows all the wagons are town, and that's why he didn't want to vote for either of them, then forgot he never had a reason to vote PX when he voted him again today.
Are these (this) your points? If so, that's not a very good point. It's more of a huge "what if" than anything. Yes, he may have not voted because he knew they were town, but what if he didn't vote for them just to not get blamed of bandwagoning? Or because he simply didn't think they were scum? My opinion on this point is "not very good".
I am, however, interested in Serela's response, as I definitely want more content from him.
Omba: I was asking you because I thought my logic was sound, and you were the one leading the lynch on him. And, your reply in fact proves that my logic wasn't that sound. I still find it kind of town-ish that he chose to defend BOTH wagons and not just one of them, as defending one of them and leaving the other for 'insurance' seems like a scum thing. But I guess it's more of a gut feeling than anything else. I don't think I'll be quick to lynch him, at least not right now.
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I meant: It's still bad, even if you didn't actually put the vote down with that reasoning. And yes, you named a few other players the kill might implicate. What you didn't explicitly mention is that there's reasonable motives for pretty much all of the players
No there aren't. I refuse to believe this can possibly be true, not compared to the other hands on deck. There are plenty of reasons to push this line of thought as true though. The kill is too strange for the newer players, and I doubt their partner would have let them pick the kill. (Inb4JobxBT team trolls us all.)
Let me try this again. I'm not voting on nightkill speculation. You're attacking me for suspecting someone based on nightkill speculation. Nevermind that before people started suspecting me it was a town tell to you. And cases aren't nessicary to find scum, even if they're nice. Simplicity is. I get that you think Pesco is town, but that doesn't make him right.
Actually. Can you tell me why you haven't looked back at PX since this happened and just basically said hello when he posted a vote and a BBL? Didn't you think he was scum?
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Bard: Tried to get a wagon running up on him. Wagon dissapated for little to no reason. Kind of being cleared by people. Who would do a kill that effectively trolls all the players like that instead of killing someone pushing discussion?
Stupid scum?
The worrying thought is that someone thought what he did yesterday would make him obvtown later.
So up till here it's still all WIFOM, and the only reason you think Pesco is scum is because Night Kill Analysis assuming scum!Pesco. Hey, let's do more analysis. Scum!Shadoweh shoots Schezo in the night, then posts a case on Pesco out of the gate by using NK Analysis with what looks like reasonable reasoning on the outside in a game laden with newbies and derps.
About the wagons, uhm.. wow I really said that. Now I'm feeling even more trolled by the kill. I changed my mind, is all I can say. The suspicions on his play looked reasonable and I hadn't actually cleared Dan before that. It does make me feel worse about my choice though. I was worried I was tunneling on an early game read and that the wagon I was on had no basis in reality.
How does the kill have anything to do with your decision to suddenly abandon the PX train and jumping onto the express train to Danlynch? Do you feel there is still no basis for Scum!PX, then?
I'll be blunt. I think your vote looks like a chainsaw by attacking Serela over voting PX (and now attacking Omba for NOT voting PX). Of course without his flip this is USELESS speculation (thanks, Shadoweh, for denying me that flip!), but it's all these things added together that make me think Shadoweh is scum. "I changed my mind" seems an odd way to suddenly go "I haven't gotten a town read on Dan yet!", which moreso looks like scum throwing in throwaway opinions and then forgetting what they've said. How can you honestly forget whether someone looked Town to you or not?
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Also PX: Who do you think are scum beside Serela? Reads, produce them. Fuxdamnit.
Can't I lynch BOTH Shadoweh and PX?
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No there aren't. I refuse to believe this can possibly be true, not compared to the other hands on deck. There are plenty of reasons to push this line of thought as true though. The kill is too strange for the newer players, and I doubt their partner would have let them pick the kill. (Inb4JobxBT team trolls us all.)
... :V
Fun fact: There are plenty of reasons to push this line of thought as well.
Let me try this again. I'm not voting on nightkill speculation. You're attacking me for suspecting someone based on nightkill speculation. Nevermind that before people started suspecting me it was a town tell to you. And cases aren't nessicary to find scum, even if they're nice. Simplicity is. I get that you think Pesco is town, but that doesn't make him right.
My natural gut instinct is to vote Pesco. First, he voted up both the town-flipped now. Secondly, when I ask myself "Who the fuck would nightkill Schezo?" I can clearly see him reasoning that no one wants to vote Schezo anyways and killing him now when it's nebulous. It looks guiltless since Schezo never looked back at Pesco. Hmm. I can see motive for Omba and huh what, and the trail pointing to Hero seems so obvious as to be forged.
Now tell me this doesn't read like X is reason for voting Y. That you add the qualifier that it's just gut doesn't help one bit, you're still using this line of reasoning. Also, I'm not attacking you for suspecting someone based on speculation. I'm attacking you for actually stating that speculation, and specifically in a way that makes it look like it was more than just speculation.
Also, a quick look back will tell you that Pesco already asked me how you gut-voting him is a town-tell. To which I replied that it wasn't, just that the absence of anything like it is a scum tell.
Cases may not be necessary for finding scum, yes. Keine-tan has a chance of 2/11 to catch scum on the first hit. You might have insane mindhax that allow you to instantly spot the scum. W/e. That all doesn't matter since we have no way of knowing whether you're actually town. Finding scum is reason a) for making cases. Reason b) is allowing town to determine whether you're scum.
Actually. Can you tell me why you haven't looked back at PX since this happened and just basically said hello when he posted a vote and a BBL? Didn't you think he was scum?
My read of him changed at the time I changed my vote to Dan. Further re-reads today have told me that all I can really tell from his posts is that he's lazy as all fuck. There's exactly one more thing I could have said in reply to his newest post: "You're a lazy fuck. Post more goddamnit." I'm pretty sure that won't make him spit out more content so I might as well not say it. As it is, he'd be a perfect policy lynch. And I'd rather not waste a lynch on someone that pretty much has a 1:1 chance of flipping either way when there's people actively displaying scum traits around.
--cut by Bard telling PX exactly that.
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So first, there's Serela's first post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727370.html#msg727370) Here, he says he'll go with a Schezo vote, but instead goes vote Bard based on "GUT! =D". Next post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728028.html#msg728028) isn't much better than a "Don't prod me" and a giant garbled mess of "I don't like these people." And not a thing about his current vote, Bardiche. Next post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728537.html#msg728537) "Yeah, that Bardiche thing was just voting for the sake of voting. I never wanted him dead." Uhhh, is nobody else seeing that? "I don't like Dan, but I don't want to vote him. I like PX, post more before I decide if I want to vote you or not. Pesco is scum, but I'm going to unvote and not vote anyone despite saying that I didn't want to do that last post." Combined with his next post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728745.html#msg728745), it looks like he's avoiding one town wagon while being on the other wagon, but trying to sound like he's not really on it so when either one flips Town, he'll be in a good spot as not really being on the Town Wagon. His latest post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729885.html#msg729885) is a defense of huh what, along with a suspicion of me and Hero. I would seriously like to know how you came to this conclusion of Hero, as you haven't so much as put an opinion of him before that post all game, and now he's randomly a top scum suspect?
Shadoweh, I still don't like her. The forcing the lynch on Dan over me makes no sense as Scum, but her actions so far on D2 are just terrible. Trying to indict people based on NK analysis? Really, if you're not pointing it at Pesco and instead saying anyone can do it, then let's just lynched everyone! She's neutral, more scummish. And before you go "Stop copying stuff.", originality on the internet is overrated and pretty damn hard when everybody has covered EVERYTHING about Shadoweh.
The Hero case, I can very easily see, especially after that OMGUS vote on huh what. However, he's giving me a Sid GUT which conflicts with the case, but I can get behind the wagon on logic.
JOB and BT are just what
Pesco reads to me like Town scum. He's green.
Everybody else would be town but I FORGOT ABOUT DORMIO GHISDHBFISD
Okay, after "reading" his posts (The ones that are legible), I like his cases, and they make sense, but he could do with MORE READS. Neutral, townie.
CUT BY TWO PEOPLE GDI THIS POST TOOK A WHILE BETWEEN STUFF
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Oh right, I forgot this.
I only have one question for him, and it's serious so he should answer. Why didn't you hammer yourself?
Uhhhhh, because I'm scum? Truthfully, I was going to, when suddenly a voice came screaming out to me saying "DO NOT SELF HAMMER. DO NOT GIVE UP" right before I hit post. Probably Kitten/Shadoweh's back from CotA. And are you seriously asking this? -.-
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So up till here it's still all WIFOM, and the only reason you think Pesco is scum is because Night Kill Analysis assuming scum!Pesco. Hey, let's do more analysis. Scum!Shadoweh shoots Schezo in the night, then posts a case on Pesco out of the gate by using NK Analysis with what looks like reasonable reasoning on the outside in a game laden with newbies and derps.
Oh no, you've seen through my secret scum mastermind plot, killing someone so I could stunningly speculate on it. How will I never defend against this. This motive is bad and you should feel bad for considering it.
How does the kill have anything to do with your decision to suddenly abandon the PX train and jumping onto the express train to Danlynch? Do you feel there is still no basis for Scum!PX, then?
It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'm indecisive, sue me. The kill doesn't have anything to do with yesterday and I don't know what your point with this is. Yes, a PX scum is still a possibility. No, you can't lynch both of us at the same time. Incidentally I'm mortally insulted you are putting us on the same level.
I'll be blunt. I think your vote looks like a chainsaw by attacking Serela over voting PX (and now attacking Omba for NOT voting PX). Of course without his flip this is USELESS speculation (thanks, Shadoweh, for denying me that flip!), but it's all these things added together that make me think Shadoweh is scum. "I changed my mind" seems an odd way to suddenly go "I haven't gotten a town read on Dan yet!", which moreso looks like scum throwing in throwaway opinions and then forgetting what they've said. How can you honestly forget whether someone looked Town to you or not?
>.> I feel like I'm letting down some kind of intelligence quota you put in me. I forget alot of things. Towniness doesn't stay at a solid level anyways. I thought I was lynching PX just because my vote is magnetically attracted his face and the other side sounded more reasonable then me, okay? As for the chensaw (a whole new level of wince because it sounds like you're accusing me of being scum with PX and feeling the need to defend him from NEOSERELA), I think it's reasonable to point out differences in opinion regardless of whether they contradict. Serela thought PX was town, Omba thought PX was scum. Serela hasn't come back to answer me. Omba answered pretty quickly with an answer that portrays how I felt about the PX wagon in general. "Let's lynch PX because PX is being PX." Serela hasn't answered because posting is hard, I'm sure. Guess which one I'm still voting?
Oh right, I forgot this.Uhhhhh, because I'm scum? Truthfully, I was going to, when suddenly a voice came screaming out to me saying "DO NOT SELF HAMMER. DO NOT GIVE UP" right before I hit post. Probably Kitten/Shadoweh's back from CotA. And are you seriously asking this? -.-
Flattery will get you everynowhere. It's a serious question. We were starting to look in danger of a Keine-lynch after BT disappeared. I was curious why you didn't offer. Alright, I'll buy your Serela vote now.
Now tell me this doesn't read like X is reason for voting Y. That you add the qualifier that it's just gut doesn't help one bit, you're still using this line of reasoning. Also, I'm not attacking you for suspecting someone based on speculation. I'm attacking you for actually stating that speculation, and specifically in a way that makes it look like it was more than just speculation.
I'll concede this point. I think I misunderstood what you disliked. You are correct that I'd originally included a vote in that post. I think it's more then just speculation. I simply don't think I can convince enough people of my suspicion when I'm not confident enough in my own point to push it. It's.. probably a bad habit. My faith wavers at the though of possibly mislynching the stronger town.
And yes, yes I know that cases are good. I just think you're accusing me of saying less then I am.
Apparently I should stop being lazy and actually try to find the scum. Can one of you do something really scummy so I can notice you? That would be super.
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If huhwhat wants a vote, I'll give him a vote. I was trying to decide on who I should vote today and I've pretty much made my decision now.
##Vote PX
I still don't see much improvement here. So I still think he's scum.
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You... still have yet to say why I'm sum in the first place?
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I'm pretty sure I've made a case on you already. Besides, don't the opinions shed some light on why I think your scum?
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@BT: Look at the people that everyone has a town read on. Those town reads don't appear to be uncertain of whoever they're attacking. If they are indecisive, they aren't showing it. It's scummy to not show this investment into a stance because of how fluid it lets you be when the wind changes. Now tell us again who you are willing to fight to the death because you believe strongly in them being scum.
My case is not that Serela annoys me. What the hell. I think he sounds like he knows all the wagons are town, and that's why he didn't want to vote for either of them, then forgot he never had a reason to vote PX when he voted him again today. Does that make more sense to you? It could also make other people look at him and realize yes, he could be scum. You don't mention what you think of him while you're busy deriding my vote. What's your opinion, Overlord Pescorz?
ANYWAYS. Dormio, can you ask Google Translate to make your posts today if you're going to be like this? The simple answer to your question is because I have a habit of voting for whoever annoys me the most and I don't know if I'm tunneling on him for being annoying or because he's actually scum. I think my reasoning for why he's town still holds. Your reasoning for not doing anything but posting junk about me doesn't exist. Opinions, we need them to make choices.
If it makes you all feel better, I have found something that irritates me more:
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela
He doesn't annoy you you say? Well you're voting him for irritating you and going by what you say here, it's a knee-jerk vote at that. Why aren't you voting for scum?
My opinion of NeoSerela is that he's a moron. If I were to support his lynch, it would be policy and gets us absolutely nothing.
Apparently I should stop being lazy and actually try to find the scum. Can one of you do something really scummy so I can notice you? That would be super.
Vote yourself. TownShadoweh was never this lazy.
I'm pretty sure I've made a case on you already. Besides, don't the opinions shed some light on why I think your scum?
You most certainly didn't.
Gonna have to drop BT seeing as there's no interest. Shadoweh has been making less sense than drunk-posting Dormio on meds. Active lurking and zero scumhunting on Day 1, making a weak vote and trying to weasel out of being caught for the poor voting reason today, and IMO from above, pushing a policy lynch.
##Unvote BT
##Vote Shadoweh
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Let me try actually remembering who is playing this game.
The Townies:
2.) huh what - Trying
3.) BT - Trying
4.) Bardiche - Trying
5.) Omba - Trying
6.) Pesco - Trying Jerk
I think we should stop fighting with each other as of now. We're bombarding everyone that's speaking and the lurkers are slipping through the cracks. The more we sort through the people not talking, the more we can hear what the speakers are actually saying, and no matter how many times I stare are you with suspicion I just keep seeing something obviously town. My order of towniness here is Omba > Bardiche > BT > huh what > Pesco. I just can't stand Pesco's posts and I don't know why. I'm getting a bit of a lurker vibe from huh what. BT just has the newbie trying spirit. Bard is being himself and Omba is The Townest.
The ITP:
13.) Shadoweh - It's funny when you lynch me as scum. It's mean but understandable when you lynch me as third party. But I will throw a fit if I end up as a town mislynch. I can't even defend myself properly from some of your accusations due to how mindblastingly silly they are, especially if they center around "OMG SHADOWEH DID SOMETHING FOR A BUNCH OF ATTENTION INSTEAD OF MISLYNCHING PX/RIDING PX INTO THE SUNSET, SHE MUST BE SCUM! OMG SHADOWEH IS DOING SPECULATION EVERYONE HATES, OBVIOUSLY SHE MUST BE SCUM NOT WANTING TO HELP US MISLYNCH TOWNIES!"
Me: That's stupid. Shadoweh would never do that as scum.
Town: THAT'S WIFOM OMG SCUM LOGIC.
Me: No it isn't. It's logic. Why would I want to-
Town: WIFOM WIFOM MORE WIFOM VOTE SHADOWEH
Me: ...Kitten can I replace out?
The Scummies:
1.) Dormio - ..You actually added the Whee. You cheeky little.. okay. Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728021.html#msg728021) is Dormio's reasoning for the Dan vote. It is because 'what Pesco said', because he dislikes him saying the two towny people are town, and because of a possible false dicot.. dic.. a false situation where one town flip implicates the other. That's not what Dan did though. Saying if one is scum the other is town possibly clears the other. It doesn't mean if one is town the other is scum. The rest of Dan's posts are blatantly ignored as 'loldefending'. About the only other thing he said yesterday was that I looked townish. Obviously not anymore. He might even have a case if not for the mistyped garbage.
I'm getting tired of tearing apart these loaded cases against me, but I don't think I addressed the 'wanted to switch between both wagons' thing. I was already on one of the wagons. It was less then an hour before lynchytimes. As scum I didn't have a reason to suddenly care which wagon I was on, especially if I intended to be on one of them. So yeah. You're about due for a prod too. Less drunken tunneling. More actually looking for scum.
11.) Hero999 - Well apparently other people think he's scum. I think I want more reads from him specifically on the people he's questioned in the past. JOB, BT, Pesco.. and pretty much other then one question each everything else was addressed to Schezo and Dan. Hmm. He does read more like tunneling town to me.
10.) PX - Uhm.. I think the most scummy thing he's done was this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728900.html#msg728900) post. This is the one 20 minutes before lynch when it sounds like he thinks there's no one else here. How is it not giving up to curl into a ball and die?
12.) JOB - I'm not sure I feel like he's trying. I mean, he doesn't feel like he has that go ahead townie spirit. He did actually make a case on PX earlier now that I look through his posts, so I'm less ready to punch him for the PX vote. I do question why he felt the need to say he was voting just because huh what wanted him to.
8.) Serela - I already looked at this one. >8(
I started this post three hours ago ;-; Why can't I think in a consice manner? It worries me how the most likely team I'm casting here is Dormio X NeoSerela. My order of dislike here so far is Serela < Dormio < JOB < PX < Hero.
I would yell some more at Pesco but I need to sleep, so this is what you get.
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I saw your scummy behaviour but I wanted to wait to see if you would do something scummy again, before being sure of it. What you did was scummy. You voted Schezo for what I assume was to pressure him for lurking and you didn't even give a real reason other than that. Then later on you vote Shadoweh for only one reason that's your own (IIRC) and about 2-3 reasons taken from other people (one person being me suspecting her for throwing around WIFOM). Then later on you vote Action Dan for OMGUS, which it turns out actually was supposed to join with a whole other case. Stop taking from others, and make your own cases. If you can find another thing bad with Dan then that would be good.
Go find your own damn original reasons. How the fuck does make me scum. If I come up with my own conclusions on someone and someone else already said that, how does that ruins the validity of my opinions?
Cut by Pesco
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My order of dislike here so far is Serela < Dormio < JOB < PX < Hero.
I like how they're all people you could push a lynch onto without much effort.
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@Shadoweh: Huhwhat was suspecting me for not voting. So I voted so he can't suspect me for that reason.
@PX: If I were to make a case using reasons taken from everyone and not using any reasons of my own then wouldn't you find that scummy? It doesn't ruin the validity of your opinions, if it did, then the first person to make the reason wouldn't have valid cases. It jus means that you can't find anything else. True townies can keep digging up dirt on someone regardless of alignment.
Cut by Pesco.
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I lied.
##Unvote
##Vote: Serela[/b]
So, Serela. You said here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728537.html#msg728537) that you liked things from both Dan and PX, and you weren't sure of who to vote at the point where they were pretty much the only two wagons. Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728745.html#msg728745) you vote PX over not-Dan because of his continued non-existance. Today, you are voting PX for still being scum? But you never thought he was scum in the first place! You just thought he was the scummier of the two choices! And you're already making it look like that again with a choice between PX and Hero. I want to hear more when you think of everyone else. Like why you randomly thought Pesco was scum but didn't follow up your suspicion.
OKAY PESCO LET'S JUST PRETEND I VOTED HIM FOR BEING ANNOYING AND THAT THE REST OF THAT POST NEVER HAPPENED RIGHT? It's right freaking there. And you're already surrendering your vote because oh well no one cares about what Pesco says guess I gotta go this way. I can't take this anymore. You have got to be scum. You can't seriously be this blind. You can't really believe these blatant misrepresentations of everything I say. You talked about the 'uncertainty and not showing it' but you know what? Your voting pattern says you haven't been certain of who you're voting since the beginning of the game. Why do you care what everyone else thinks instead of voting for the scum? You're just hopping on bandwagons until it bloody sticks. OH MY GOD YOU SUCK.
##Unvote
##VOTE: PESCO
I'M GOING TO BED. I WON'T BE BACK UNTIL TOMORROW AFTERNOON. MY ANSWER TO WHY AM I NOT VOTING SCUM IS BECAUSE YES I AM SO DIE.
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Shadoweh, you still haven't answered my question that I've already asked you twice.
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True townies can keep digging up dirt on someone regardless of alignment.
And that is a trap. You're basically saying that people have to dig out the most bullshit reasons on why a person is scum so weak that it can be easily torn apart. That is not how scum hunting works, trying to turn everything someone does into scum.
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WHY DON'T YOU GO ANSWER IT.
JOB SOUNDING LIKE A SENSE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728145.html#msg728145)
THIS POST IS WEIRD TOO (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728129.html#msg728129)
THIS IS TOTALLY A JOB POST[URL=http://[URL=http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728337.html#msg728337]THAT'S PRETTY JOB TOO]
[URL=http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728337.html#msg728337]THAT'S PRETTY JOB TOO (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728319.html#msg728319)
THIS ONE SOUNDS LIKE THE PART ON PX AND THE PART ON HUH WHAT WERE WRITTEN BY TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730303.html#msg730303)
NOW GO AWAY
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WHY DON'T YOU GO ANSWER IT.
JOB SOUNDING LIKE A SENSE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728145.html#msg728145)
THIS POST IS WEIRD TOO (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728129.html#msg728129)
THIS IS TOTALLY A JOB POST (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728319.html#msg728319)
THAT'S PRETTY JOB TOO (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728337.html#msg728337)
THIS ONE SOUNDS LIKE THE PART ON PX AND THE PART ON HUH WHAT WERE WRITTEN BY TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730303.html#msg730303)
NOW I FIXED IT AREN'T YOU HAPPY
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Kind of here still. No real time to :words: right now or respond to Omba (who is IMO being dumb/tunnelly town and probably not worth squabbling with anyway) or whatever, but ##Unvote and ##Vote Pesco because I think he's taking potshots at Shadoweh just to irritate her more than he is honestly pushing for her lynch. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730302.html#msg730302) bugs me because Shadoweh herself has been playing badly enough today (silly townie bad and not scummy bad imo) that she's probably easier to push a lynch onto than any of the people she mentioned. He's not pressing her for taking scummy stances, he's just trying to push her buttons, and this isn't something a townie should do. I also don't believe town Pesco would drop the BT case so easily after arguing with BT about it so much. Given the way he switched to Shadoweh so easily I think he was predicting BT to be a huge target today. I would talk about Hero still but he isn't fucking posting anything. More tomorrow at like, late in the day. <_<
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Also true facts: above post was me claiming Shadoweh's scumbuddy attempting to start her counterwagon, lynch me when her wagon flips scum.
Kind of irritated with this game TBH and shouldn't even be posting right now but I'm a lurker suddenly so okay.
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Thank you Shadoweh for finally responding. I can kinda see what you mean.
Isn't it obvious that I have multiple personalities Fake edit: Now you fixed it I'm even happier.
Also PX, what do you think about the rest of that paragraph?
@PX: If I were to make a case using reasons taken from everyone and not using any reasons of my own then wouldn't you find that scummy? It doesn't ruin the validity of your opinions, if it did, then the first person to make the reason wouldn't have valid cases.
I never mentioned you opinions not being valid. Just because they're not valid doesn't mean your scum. If you look hard enough you can find something worthwhile.
Cut 2 times.
Cut again. Hey Huhwhat, do you still suspect me even though I have a vote down now?
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What the fuck did I type yesterday?
So apparently I made some posts that I have absolutely no recollection of making.
Okay, so I am not Shadoweh. I should not drink and post ever again.
Anyway. I think I can still make out what I was trying to say in those posts.
On late day one, the way Shadoweh worded her posts gave her a lot off leeway in switching between PX and ActionDan.
She admits in #323 that her only case on Dan is that she believes in the people voting for him. No actual case of her own. Note that this is the person she hammered, over the person that she has been constantly calling scum throughout D1 and D2.
Bardiche's point in #388 is something that I find to be very interesting, too.
When I had written #392, Shadoweh had failed to mention PX at all during D2.
In fact, she seems to have kind of forgotten about him, placing him on a backburner for now. Kind of like a backup case or something.
Shadoweh unleashes a barrel of noise upon us by grabbing a list of the most active people and exclaiming that because none of them were killed overnight, at least one of them must be scum.
This announcement is horribly, horribly anti-town.
Firstly, it's an attempt to get everyone to focus on these people and to ignore the others.
Secondly, it's extremely distracting.
What makes this statement even worse is how Shadoweh actually gives her own justification on why the scum might have pulled such a stunt in the middle of stating how it makes no sense whatsoever.
For some reason, it just seems as if such a scenario could have been engineered by Shadoweh.
Her closing statement in #410 is absolutely terrible.
She says that we're going to have to wait to see a vote from her, despite the fact that she had several suspects from D1 that are all still alive.
She also calls herself town for "meta" basically. She claims to be so confused and loving it. Something that you can't prove, and gives no reason for us to believe that she's really telling the truth.
It also irks me that Shadoweh called Pesco scummy for "mudslinging" but refuses to vote for him at that point. Especially if you take into consideration that Shadoweh actually had suspicions of Pesco yesterday to boot.
Oh, and I also dislike Shadoweh's #451. She finally votes for Pesco, but has it filled with so much AtE. Something about that just doesn't sit right with me.
I mean, she did put Pescar into the "Townies" list in her #447, after all.
I'll make a post on the rest of you people later today. I have a massive headache right now.
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I never mentioned you opinions not being valid. Just because they're not valid doesn't mean your scum. If you look hard enough you can find something worthwhile.
THEN WHY THE FUCK AM I SCUM TO YOU?!
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Stop dodging questions. That last sentence was in reply to the post you made that I was replying to in that quote.
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How the fuck does make me scum.
THEN WHY THE FUCK AM I SCUM TO YOU?!
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PX STOP BEING DIFFICULT AND ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION!!!
Shadoweh was able to spot a case, so why can't you? Even if it's a bad case doesn't mean I don't think your scum, and it doesn't mean that it's not a case.
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You know what, I'm in no mood to deal with this at this time. Just repost everything you want me to answer, because if you want me to answer so badly try to make sure I get it right by shoving it right in my face instead of getting me to look for something that you're thinking of that I'm not. I'll deal with it tomorrow, sleep now.
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@PX: If I were to make a case using reasons taken from everyone and not using any reasons of my own then wouldn't you find that scummy? It doesn't ruin the validity of your opinions, if it did, then the first person to make the reason wouldn't have valid cases.
Also PX, what do you think about the rest of that paragraph?
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Dormio, what do you think about everyone else (generally)? Do you have any other suspects?
Hero better post something soon... If this keeps up I'll be encouraging everyone to follow this lynch.
JOB and BT are just what
Did none of my recent posts made you change my opinion on me (or find an opinion) in any way?
Agreeing (still) with the accusations against Shadoweh so far. Once I see something from Hero I may as well change my vote.
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Kind of here still. No real time to :words: right now or respond to Omba (who is IMO being dumb/tunnelly town and probably not worth squabbling with anyway) or whatever, but ##Unvote and ##Vote Pesco because I think he's taking potshots at Shadoweh just to irritate her more than he is honestly pushing for her lynch. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730302.html#msg730302) bugs me because Shadoweh herself has been playing badly enough today (silly townie bad and not scummy bad imo) that she's probably easier to push a lynch onto than any of the people she mentioned. He's not pressing her for taking scummy stances, he's just trying to push her buttons, and this isn't something a townie should do. I also don't believe town Pesco would drop the BT case so easily after arguing with BT about it so much. Given the way he switched to Shadoweh so easily I think he was predicting BT to be a huge target today. I would talk about Hero still but he isn't fucking posting anything. More tomorrow at like, late in the day. <_<
My dislike of Shadoweh started on Day 1 here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727782.html#msg727782). I point out here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728012.html#msg728012) that Shadoweh still hasn't been producing. This isn't a switch out of the blue. I reread Shadoweh and my conclusion of her was here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729614.html#msg729614) at the start of Day 2. How is this leadup an easy switch? It should be clear that I suspected her long before I made the vote.
Don't tell me that you think Shadoweh's dramatics are an indication of her alignment. I've told her time and time again after games to drop the stupid sarcasm in her posts because it's never appropriate. She doesn't learn, thus the best thing for us to do is to call her for crying wolf every time. If she's town, then she needs to up her standard of play.
As for you, I don't believe you would be town for not pressing Hero more yourself. I've gone back and forth a lot with BT, you acknowledged it, and nobody wants to support my case. If I can't have that lynch today, then I can only move onto my next suspect. What exactly puts you in the clear for doing essentially the same thing via far less presence?
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Dormio (0):
huh what (2): Omba, Hero999
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (2): Shadoweh, huh what
Serela (1): PX
PX (2): Serela, JOB
Hero999 (1): BT
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, Pesco
Not Voting:
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~38 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
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Homework, >_<
@Huh what; Your attempt to practically discredit everything Omba has said in your first sentence (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730313.html#msg730313), is scummy.
Job's post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730248.html#msg730248) makes me face palm. Your voting Huh What because he is suspicious of you? -_-;
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@BT: Why do you feel the need to only encourage my lynch when I'm "lurking"?
I'm your worst read am I not? Why do you sound so unwilling to push for my lynch?
@Shadoweh: Invoking your own meta on yourself...>_>;
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So basically you're trying to policy lynch me because you want me to post differently. Why aren't you voting for scum?
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So basically you're trying to policy lynch me because you want me to post differently. Why aren't you voting for scum?
Just to make sure: Are you referring to this?
Don't tell me that you think Shadoweh's dramatics are an indication of her alignment. I've told her time and time again after games to drop the stupid sarcasm in her posts because it's never appropriate. She doesn't learn, thus the best thing for us to do is to call her for crying wolf every time. If she's town, then she needs to up her standard of play.
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Let's see, people want my thoughts on everyone else, right?
Scum - Shadoweh. Totes.
Weird - huh what, Pesco, BT. Needs more words on them later.
Dormio - Dormio
Everyone else - I don't care about you.
BT has not contributed much to the game until #418 where he lists off his opinions on everyone in the game.
What do I dislike about it? It says basically nothing. It gives us examples of bad play by the players, but so what?
I really think that it tells us nothing about what he really thinks and gives him the ability to jump onto the wagons of pretty much anyone.
As for huh what and Pesco, there's something about them that seem kind of weird. I'll expand on this when I actually get sleep and don't wake up hungover.
Also, on an unrelated note, I like how BT is the only person to still have not confirmed. :D
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Job's post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730248.html#msg730248) makes me face palm. Your voting Huh What because he is suspicious of you? -_-;
Hero's post makes me face palm. I'm not voting Huhwhat at all. -_-;
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@BT: Why do you feel the need to only encourage my lynch when I'm "lurking"?
I'm your worst read am I not? Why do you sound so unwilling to push for my lynch?
You're misunderstanding. I was anticipating you to reply to my accusations. If the reply is adequate, I would have switched my vote. It didn't need to be much, seeing as most of my accusations were based on your bad content. In other words, I was anticipating you to make me change my mind. If this is your reply, though, then I have no reason to.
I really think that it tells us nothing about what he really thinks and gives him the ability to jump onto the wagons of pretty much anyone.
If this isn't what I "really think", than what were you expecting? I'm all ears.
Also, on an unrelated note, I like how BT is the only person to still have not confirmed. :D
:/
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ლ(?ロ?ლ) Do we have to go through rage every game, even in a game where we don't even have power roles so no role shenanigans?
Shadoweh, calm the fuck down and then please answer: why would a Town!PX offer to suicide hammer self? If I were Town and I'd be tied for lynch on D1, I sure the fuck wouldn't hammer myself because from my PoV, a randolynch has a 2/11 odds of hitting scum, whereas my lynch has a 1/1 odds of hitting Town. I find the suggestion doesn't really work there, to tell people to hammer themselves.
I still don't like PX but it's less with his recent posts, and I begrudgingly admit lynching him at this point would be more a policy lynch for channeling Zakeri than it'd be a lynch for scum. Shadoweh is being annoying with the AtE, and fuck why is everything and everyone exploding?
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To just deign a response to the rest of your emo-laden shtick... I speculated on Scum!Shadoweh killing to show you just how stupid and utterly indefensible the WIFOM route is, and yet you employ it and call it a valid reasoning. It's getting back at you with your own reasoning and you now acknowledge it is bad.
I meant the part where you said the kill was trolling you because you jumped off of PX! There's no indication that a PX lynch would've resulted in a not-Schezo kill. It was just a question due to your oddness in phrasing but I don't hold it against you as scummy either way.
When you say PX scum is a possibility, is it just 1/11 odds of him being scum, (silly me, above should be 2/13 odds of hitting scums), or actual basis/grounds? I need to understand why you jumped off him yesterday! I'll grant that it's possibly less of a scumtell than I've thought up so far, because a panicked, indecisive Town could indeed randomly jump off of wagons they propelled forward themselves first.
Sorry, you're PX-level, Shadomeh. :derp:
You'll have to forgive me for thinking it's a chainsaw when you're attacking both Serela and Omba, for voting PX and not voting PX respectively. Christ this is PX Mafia II (Day 2), and everyone's scum.
Anyway I'll go reread Pesco because it looks like this may be PERTINENT to do and whatnot and christ you all make me want to headdesk. Scum everywhere. From where I sit, scum everywhere. Stop doing this.
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So basically you're trying to policy lynch me because you want me to post differently. Why aren't you voting for scum?
I'm lynching you for active lurking and not scumhunting. These are things that I've reasoned out and determined you are scum for, thus I vote you to get lynched. If you aren't scum, then I hope you will post competently in future games.
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Hero's post makes me face palm. I'm not voting Huhwhat at all. -_-;
Really? and Your calling me out for parroting?
;ohdear; I looked at it wrong, my apologies then.
The contents itself were all about huh what so I had mistaken.
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"Yeah, that Bardiche thing was just voting for the sake of voting. I never wanted him dead." Uhhh, is nobody else seeing that?
Noooo more like I didn't want him dead at the time of the previous post. I obviously didn't like him when I voted him.
I like PX, post more before I decide if I want to vote you or not.
I could see where his cases come from and I thought they were nice. He was still bad due to great lacks of many things, so I figured I'd give him a chance to come back and make up for his lacking, because then he still could have been fine to me.
But he didn't.
I would seriously like to know how you came to this conclusion of Hero, as you haven't so much as put an opinion of him before that post all game, and now he's randomly a top scum suspect?
I suppose this is true... I haven't really communicated how I've felt about hero. It's been sort of hard for me to read his posts and get feelings out of them. My opinion of him was sort of "askjdfjasdfl how" as in "HOW TO GET A READ ON THIS PERSON", but then he comes up and makes a horribad case on Huhwhat that's just terrible, so suddenly he goes from being effectively neutral to being pretty bad.
That also sums up my case on Hero! Yay getting asked questions.
Serela thought PX was town,
wut
like, uh, what
When did I -ever- say this? I didn't. Just gonna throw that out there. Just because I could see his cases and somewhat liked them does -not- mean I thought he was town. Scum can also make nice cases on people, because scum are not the only people who it's possible to make a good case on.
Oh and PX is actually making words now. This makes him... less bad. But his D1 is still horrible. But I think I'll go ahead and
##Unvote ##Vote Hero
Shadoweh is rage-moe. It's especially cute how in post 455 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730310.html#msg730310) the "I FIXED IT" is inside the quotebox which seems like a mistake (Although maybe it's not). As for her alignment, I'm honestly not sure where I stand, but I definitely see where people are coming from on the Shadoweh-scum front. I'd like to come back to this after we have more relevant flips to back things up. Seeing as she may be a contender for today's lynch though, I better come back to this sooner then that, which makes me go "DARN" but it is what it is, so
Pesco's felt weird to me the whole game but it's Pesco so I went "Well I guess he's supposed to be weird, it's Pesco." I'll reread him later, but the emerging Pesco wagon isn't worrying me at the moment.
Hey, anyone else notice how Hero's posts today seem INCREDIBLY EMPTY? Iunno if it's just me, but it really doesn't feel like there's much in these other then his case on huhwhat! Other then his stuff against Huhwhat, all he's done is jot down a few words to answer Omba, and make tiny comments to people.
Hero's case on huhwhat also pretty much still just consists of huhwhat hammering Dan at the last minute of the day so that we didn't get a randomlynch by Keine. I sort of thought he might say something to improve or defend his case against Huhwhat, but he hasn't. Do you REALLY think huhwhat is scum just for preferring to lynch someone a majority chose over a randomlynch?
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Dormio (0):
huh what (2): Omba, Hero999
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (2): Shadoweh, huh what
Serela (1): PX
PX (1): JOB
Hero999 (2): BT, Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, Pesco
Not Voting:
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~29 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
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huhwhat hammering Dan at the last minute of the day so that we didn't get a randomlynch by Keine.
And do people suddenly forget there were TWO people at L-1 before deadline?
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...And you DO realize that SOMEONE had to switch wagons to get a hammer because SOMEONE didn't vote.
Also, JOB, just restate your case on me. Seriously, make another one.
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And do people suddenly forget there were TWO people at L-1 before deadline?
Huhwhat was already on one of them. He can't just revote the same guy to hammer him, and no one else was going to switch to PX, as evidenced by... no one else voicing that they would or doing so by the time there was like 2~3 minutes left in the day.
So having a case based entirely on Huhwhat making sure we at least got a majority-chosen lynch over a randomlynch is still horribad.
oh ninja'd by px basically saying it
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@Serela: In post number 79 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=888)
Your words say mind wanted, but then right after you say gut wanted you to look at. So is it your mind or gut at work here?
Post number 174 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=888) in where you talk about everyone but don't really explain anything about any of them. Leaving it all to "I don't understand so I'm making a useless post" In where you stated yourself was useless. The only things I got from that post was that you needed to keep appearances and are willing to lynch 4 people even when earlier in the post you stated you don't understand anything.
Post number 249 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728537.html#msg728537)
Where you state you didn't want Bard lynched at all and yet kept your vote on him throughout D1. You also pretty much said you didn't unvote because you thought it would make you look bad.
Posts some noise about how hes called useless and such, and that a phrase sounded nice.
Then he states that schezo/huh what town, his kneejerk reaction was to vote pesco, but held back on it for whatever reason.
Post number 409 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729885.html#msg729885)
Here he says he doesn't like huhwhat cases, stated a view of Omba's statement and did not ask for clarification if it was the meaning Omba meant to state or not. Which shows he does not exactly care what the meaning was.
Post number 480 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730530.html#msg730530)
To clarify on your last statement, I believe that if your going to be voting for someone you believe to town, then having a random lynch is more preferable to lynching someone you believe to be town especially if the one who is targeting the townie is your scum suspect.
Cut by stuff.
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Oh dear me, How did I forget,
##Unvote
##Vote Serela
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@Serela: In post number 79 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=888)
Your words say mind wanted, but then right after you say gut wanted you to look at. So is it your mind or gut at work here?
I'm not super sure why this matters. But as can be seen I was referring to a gut part of my mind and a logic part of my mind. So gut=mind.
his kneejerk reaction was to vote pesco, but held back on it for whatever reason.
because kneejerk reactions aren't a case and they aren't something to be relied on if you can't find stuff to back it up (at which point it wouldn't be a kneejerk reaction anymore)
Here he says he doesn't like huhwhat cases, stated a view of Omba's statement and did not ask for clarification if it was the meaning Omba meant to state or not. Which shows he does not exactly care what the meaning was.
I said "Sorry if I'm misinterpreting" which means I wasn't 100% sure if it was the meaning or not. It's pretty assumed that if it's not, I would be corrected. Even if I didn't include that bit I'm pretty sure someone would correct me if I completely got what they meant wrong.
hooray at the end you actually defended your case a little. I still think it's a bad case though. But at least it makes sense now.
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also I'm assuming you find me scummier then huhwhat, now?
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I fixed my shift key. I'm much calmer now that I've had 10 hours to think about how scummy Pesco is being.
Shadoweh, calm the fuck down and then please answer: why would a Town!PX offer to suicide hammer self? If I were Town
Stop right there. You're not asking why I would expect YOU to self-hammer. The question was why would a Town!PX offer to hammer or just hammer himself without telling us. Don't act as if this is something he's never done before. Why don't you actually read my post and determine if it changes your mind instead of repeating what other people have said about 'oh noe AtE'? The trolling isn't about PX. It's because I said both Dan and Schezo were town in one of the sentences you quoted, and they both died.
I'm lynching you for active lurking and not scumhunting. These are things that I've reasoned out and determined you are scum for, thus I vote you to get lynched. If you aren't scum, then I hope you will post competently in future games.
As for you. You are not wiggling your way out of this. I'm not scum. You KNOW I'm not scum. You're not trying to lynch me for being scum. You're trying to lynch me to teach me a lesson. Because you hate reading my posts. Because my posting style is wrong. Because Shadoweh is a bad player. Because Shadoweh ruins everything. I've never laughed a single time you've said that because I think you meant it every time. You're already composing your 'oh well Shadoweh flipped town' notes in your posts, how is no one seeing how scummy this is? You're being a far worse player then I am at this moment, Pesco.
You called me out for making a prod vote that'll just get moved at the end of the day, when your voting history is trying to start wagons and abandoning them when no one bites to jump onto an ongoing wagon. You're calling me out for active lurking when you make posts consisting of quotes from someone else and a single vote as your contribution. You're not actually calling me out for anything I'm doing either. You just add a 'Shadoweh is terrible' addendum to every time I post.
So there are three choices here for me. 1) Pesco is a terrible player and actually can't tell I'm town. 2) Pesco just wants to lynch everyone he doesn't like so he can enjoy his mafia game, regardless of alignment. 3) Pesco is scum.
One is out because you're not a bad player. Two is a chillingly large possibility considering your attitude so far. But I'm going to have faith in you as a human being and say you're just going to flip scum,
I'm sure someone else posted some scummy stuff. I don't care right now. Hero just did the worst OMGuS vote on Serela though. Willing to lynch him just based on complete abandonment of his previous vote. That's not Sid behaviour.
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I wanted to call it an OMGUS but I'm not 100% positive what counts as one and I went :effort: about checking the wiki, partially because I didn't know if it'd actually help.
Yeah, I did think it was pretty damn strange, though. Hooray! Well, hooray if Hero is scum. Which I think he is.
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I don't know the alignment of anyone except for myself. You do scummy things, I call them out and then vote you. You're not even addressing the points I've raised against you. How is telling me that I'm the same as you a valid defense? It's especially bad when you misrep my actions. I start the wagons AND argue my bit about them. If nobody is going to pay the slightest attention, then I'm wasting my time if I continue. My shifts in voting are not lolbandwagon hops. I've telegraphed my stances on the people that I considered worth a move onto. My willingness to vote Dan was shown when I told BT that I considered Dan a viable lynch. I placed you as my secondary suspect for the day when I called you out on my second post of the day.
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We're into the later half of the second day and you have 0 reads on anyone? That's even more unbelievable for you. Why do you care if anyone else is paying attention to who you think is scum? Does the lack of outside attention make the person less scummy to you somehow? I don't think it does, or should. You vote for who you think is scum. Yes, you start the wagons, argue your bit, then leave them for more acceptable pastures. You're catering to people. The stances you've telegraphed have been on people obviously taking flack during the day.
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Things at a glance:
PX. I think all but your post on Serela has been you telling JOB over and over to repost/unpost/undo his case, which is completely irrelevant to you actually having done anything today. Comments, questions, ideas that you actually care about what's going on at all?
Bardiche. It is defensible. That's the point I made in return. Your accusation made no sense and was refuted, like any other argument. More importantly, with your note on PX eing policy you currently have no scumspects other then me. Take a few more minutes while you're reading Pesco and see if anyone else comes up as scum to you. By my estimation there should be two more numbers. I think you're voting for the sake of consistency at this point. Everyone is not scum. There's barely a scum presence in this thread.
Hero. Where the heck did your suspicion on huh what go?
Dormio. Cute, taking another post to translate your content, effectively telling us nothing new and making you look more contentful. Your suspects after Shadoweh look random and convenient to suspect Pesco after I would be theoretically lynched.
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Shadoweh: a) Shadoweh has suffered permanent brain damage from too much alcohol or b) Shadoweh is scum
I have faith in your body, so I'll go with b).
##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh
No, seriously. What the hell is it you're trying to pull here. Nevermind that if Pesco wanted to lynch someone for playing badly, there'd be a lot of worse and easier to lynch ones in line before you.
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730395.html#msg730395) here is especially telling. You pick some part of Pesco's case on you that looks like you can use it to throw his own words back at him; incidentally the ones he's been bugging you with since like the start of the game. Fuck. You're pretty good at words, you even had me half-convinced with that post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730588.html#msg730588) of yours and forced me to spend hours to think about this shit. Perfect example of why AtE should not be used if you're town. Nice try clouding people's judgement there.
Re-reading you also tells me that the only thing this game that really got your fire going is Pesco trying to lynch you. Not liking that this coincides with you starting this Day off with naming Pesco as the one the NK implicates the most (no, you didn't say it like that, but worded it in such a way as to suggest it).
Actually, the more I read and compare your posts, the more I get the impression you've been adjusting your level of play to somewhat match that of the lot of new/bad players in this game. Until the Pesco case, that is.
I know how you played in MHM. No way in hell are you telling me this is townShadoweh in a game with no power roles.
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Like?
No, really I'm waiting for an example. There isn't anyone else that's attracted this much attention. I've seen this situation before in games. You're all lashing out at something unfamiliar and scary, as if being openly abnormal is a scum trait.
What are you trying to pull here? Damn straight you should think about this shit because that's what's happening here and if you're going to take the reins of the city you should try to steer it from crashing and burning. You of all the people here today should be wondering why the scum team feels free to let you live instead of removing the closest thing to a confirmed town this game has so far.
You are correct about the fire. There's a pleasing moment of clarity when what your gut is telling you becomes clear. I plainly said the NK implicates Pesco the most. I've plainly said I'm displeased at being pushed for being bad.. and you're adding it to your own case. Looking back here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728646.html#msg728646), you got onto the Dan wagon by following Pesco as well. The way you've slowly changed your opinion of me from town to confirmed idiot scum as the day wanes on and more opinions come forward is something I hope more people look at tomorrow.
Because today if you kill me I will only become more confirmed then you can imagine.
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I'm here but currently feel too mentally dead to post anything. If Shadoweh really is town then I fully expect her to post a motivating spiel that fixes all my problems forever. This is a serious request.
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If you really are town, huh what, then who else do you think is going to fix the problems in this town? Unless you die tonight. Then we can have a graveyard party! I've realized for scumteam issues I put Omba in the wrong category, he's never been scum before, he would be the weaker half, not stronger. You haven't looked into some of the basic hunting techniques you use, I don't think you've even glanced twice at the wagons from yesterday. I think I shall quote some here so they're easier to find.
Schezo (5): Pesco, huh what, PX, Omba, BT
ActionDan (7): Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba, Shadoweh, huh what
PX (5): JOB, Bardiche, Serela, ActionDan, Schezo
Not Voting: BT
Shadoweh (4): Bardiche, Dormio, Pesco, Omba
You'll have to add my full one manually at the end. I won't be around to quote it fully. :V I'm pretty sure wagon analysis says one of Omba or Pesco are scum. The entire PX wagon is probably town. Here's some more stuff you guys can lynch me for, by the way. I switched for better evidence. Both the pro-town people drowning in townie cred today were driving that wagon like it was a chariot of fire. I wanted to see if they were telling the truth. The lack of analyzing anything about what happened yesterday beyond lolShadoweh just increases the suspicion that some scummy people were doing some scummy things over here. Please don't forget that day was a thing that happened, and actually read back over the townies, lynched or killed. The dead are trying so hard to scream their lungs out at you.
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Going to cut the inevitable "OMG SHADOWEH OBVSCUM...." posts by saying that I'm reading ~switching for information~ as a townie move because I was honestly really tempted to do the same thing so people would shut up about town!Dan being scum (only innate townie morality prevents me from doing things that are arguably kinda fucking stupid (no offense)). Though as it happened I ended up being on his wagon anyway. <___<
But yeah, post is being worked on.
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Fuck it.
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco
Complete reversal of my read, will probably get me lynched regardless of which of you two gets lynched today and what his flip is, or possibly even before either of you two.
But one of you two is scum and one scum is worth ~6 townies in this game so fuck if I die for it.
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More like 5 but w/e numbers.
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That wasn't supposed to happen before I even posted my case. :ohdear:
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I'm trying to be a martyr here damnit how am I suposed to die if you don't kill me. ;-;
I don't understand where your reasoning comes from. :s
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Why would you want to be a martyr?
Lynching scum D2 > mislynching town D2 then lynching scum D3
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Looks like you don't care who gets lynched when you do stuff like this. Everyone who's attacked you is scum and everyone who doesn't is town. Way to be pro-town right there ::)
This would make more sense if Dan didn't peg me as town. Since I was, like, voting him and had already attacked him earlier in the game.
Also if that wasn't Dan switching to support the one of the other two wagons that gained traction. Lynching someone else instead of yourself at the end of day is not a scum trait since as town you're the only one you know to be town; everyone else has at least a chance of flipping scum, no matter what you currently think of them.
That's the one thing about Pesco that bugged me yesterday, but I ignored it.
Shadoweh: Mine? Or huh what's?
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Shadoweh: If mine, then that's obviously because I didn't say anything about my reason for switching to Pesco. Also obviously, that thing I posted just now is not the reasoning for the switch.
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Huh what: I'm only being slightly fascitious. It's awkward when you start writing up a will and find out you might not actually be dying.
Omba: I mean the comment about one of us having to be scum, or that you would get lynched for either flip. It's still possible for both of us to be town trying to kill each other. It just seems nervous. You're more likely to die at night then ever get lynched.
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Right, Gonna Get This Post Out Here* before the Hero one because Pesco is actually the lynch for today. Hero is scummy as all hell too and they both need to fry but I feel that Pesco has a lower chance of just being a really awful townie.
Why Pesco and Hero are scum and we should lynch them to win the game Vol 1.: Pesco
D1: The way he switched from the Schezo wagon to the Dan wagon is suspicious given the flips. #179 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728057.html#msg728057) seems like a lack of caring about which of the two actually get lynched combined with a desire to stick around on the Schezo wagon if possible. This fits scum's agenda because they don't care about which townies get lynched and end up producing less votes to be analyzed if they stick to their guns all day, respectively. I'm interpreting #95 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727448.html#msg727448) as an attempt to set up a back-up in case the Schezo wagon died out, given that way that Pesco really seemed to have more on Dan than on Schezo in the first place yet clung to Schezo's wagon for a significant time before switching over to the other wagon. I disagree with his response to Dan's point in #288 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728768.html#msg728768) because the post made it clear that he intended to switch off of scum!Schezo anyway. This doesn't pressure scum, it just tells them "hey, if you post anything substantial then I'll switch onto this delicious townie wagon".
Pesco's Shadoweh case has been handled rather curiously. Until his voteswitch, he never actually cited genuine reasons for suspecting her - virtually all his interactions were in the form of loaded (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727513.html#msg727513) | questions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730295.html#msg730295) or mudslinging (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728637.html#msg728637) (ctrl+f "prod (0)") to make (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729621.html#msg729621) | her look (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730302.html#msg730302) | bad (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730006.html#msg730006) (also she really obviously wasn't voting Serela because he was annoying her, what the fuck, I have no idea how town could get an honest impression of Pesco's accusation from her case) without getting directly involved and attacking her. I'm reading this as another attempt to set up a future wagon jump. By not calling her a suspect or outright referring to her as scummy until he was asked, it would become rather easy for Pesco to not get held to his attacks on her or make a town!Shadoweh feel motivated to start playing better (thus making herself an unlikely mislynch) and yet have something to cite to make himself look consistent when he jumped on her later in the game. Furthermore, the way he seems to egg her on for the sake of reactions in posts like #441 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729912.html#msg729912), and #394 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729695.html#msg729695), #98 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727453.html#msg727453) seems to come from the intent of aggravating her more than the intent of pushing her to play better due to the connotations of his tone. Town has absolutely no reason to act like this - angering players who are townies just causes them to become blinded and irritable and often fills up the thread with time-wasting noise in the form of emotional reactions, and scum typically has no reason to care about trolling attempts because they know you're a silly townie anyway and feel no little-to-no obligation to respond. However, given that the effect anger has on townies is a huge benifit to scum due to the chaos involved, scum!Pesco would actually have every reason to push Shadoweh's buttons if he knew he could probably anger her.
On the subject of Pesco and Shadoweh interactions, this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727355.html#msg727355) is SO BAD that I can't believe I never thought about it before. Setting up an earlygame plan for who to mislynch in LYLO, much?
Regarding the BT case, it is difficult to believe that Pesco would be so willing to give it up easily early into the day given how much conviction he had regarding the ActionDan case from the previous day. There were still 44 hours left in the day at the time of his post, and the D2 wagons had not even yet started to settle. Some people hadn't even given the impression they were fully set on their suspects, and I had even expressed interest in a potential BT lynch. There was definitely a lot of room for him to push for his case and attempt to convince the other players to see his way, and yet he took the easy way out by prematurely jumping onto the wagon that he had made faux-setups toward in the past when it was only at two votes anyway. This shows a huge lack of conviction. I disagree with his attempt to spin my point against me (which is arguably scummy in itself) here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730371.html#msg730371) because I did not give up on getting Hero lynched D1 until the wagons had settled and there was virtually no chance of convincing people to go for that wagon, while Pesco had plenty of time to rally the town up against BT today. My switch off of Hero today doesn't really count as giving up the case, because unlikely Pesco's switch to BT, it wasn't born of compromise so much as having more conviction for the Pesco case (I'd also argue that sticking to my guns on Hero today would have been the easier mislynch but this post doesn't exist to defend myself so yeah).
As I said earlier, this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730302.html#msg730302) is still bad because Shadoweh was easier to push a lynch onto than any of those people, which may possibly have been why she had 3 votes when none of them actually did. <_<
tl;dr Pesco is scum for setting up wagon jumps on people he predicts to become obvious targets and also for aggravating with mudslinging in lieu of actual cases against them. Obviously not expected to convince people on that sentence alone though, so go actually look through those posts yourself instead of skimming my post.
Also, NK anal totally points to scum!Pesco too, if you're into that kind of thing (like Shadoweh is). 100% genuine quality points here
* this phrase ? hanged hourai
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Also, would probably want to hear Shadoweh and Omba comment on that too even though they're already voting him, because true wagon bros stick together (until scum jumps on for the sake of bussing).
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Oh right, responding to J.O.B.
Cut again. Hey Huhwhat, do you still suspect me even though I have a vote down now?
Finally placing your vote down doesn't change the fact that not placing it down previous was already scummy. Also, you care too much about whether people suspect you or not, which errs a little bit on the defensive scum side. <_< Still, it should be pretty obvious that I think there are much better lynch targets today.
While I'm at it I'll say that I still want to see Dormio look into other players than Shadoweh more, particularly Pesco now that I posted that case.
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Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): Shadoweh, huh what, Omba
Serela (2): PX, Hero999
PX (1): JOB
Hero999 (2): BT, Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, Pesco
Not Voting:
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~22 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
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You touched on what exactly about Pesco's attacks have been pinging me the most. I haven't felt like he's been trying to get a read on me. That's what his prods are for. I feel like he misses Roukanken and wanted someone new to rage suicide into him. I will be the first to admit I haven't been obvtown. ,But I expect someone like Pesco to clear people on meta, not hang them for it. (Incidentally the mod never answered his question about the numbers and he kind of forgot about it? You're still welcome everyone, even if you've been ungrateful.) I have long stopped being able to tell if I'm actually being accused of doing something scummy or being Wrathie.
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Omba: I mean the comment about one of us having to be scum, or that you would get lynched for either flip. It's still possible for both of us to be town trying to kill each other. It just seems nervous. You're more likely to die at night then ever get lynched.
About one of you two being scum: Both cases are pretty damn solid; more solid than any of the other cases flying around. Kind of the reason I've been on yours and then switched. More importantly, I've spent a lot of time thinking about how this spat between you two came to be; NK tells me it's highly likely scum is either two idiots or planned to set exactly something like this up, albeit with less backfiring. Then I weighed the probabilities of all the possible options I could think of and the only ones seeming remotely likely involve one of you two being scum. Which would be completely useless if it weren't for the two by far strongest cases pointing in exactly the same direction.
As for me getting lynched over this: Assuming Pesco is scum, that would have been exactly the right moment for idiot_scumMe to start a bus if I had thought he'd likely get lynched over you today.
And assuming you are scum, it'd be even more obvious since I'd be building a townie counter-wagon to scum.
And if by some miracle you're both town and got lynched before me... Well, the flips might not kill me in that case, but me saying one of you two has to be scum sure would.
Either way, completely throwing away my town read on the one person I haven't attacked a single time this game (at least I think I never did) looks pretty damning no matter what the resulting flip is.
--cut by huh what making one wall of a case and already pointing out how I could be bussing Pesco. :V
Technical comments later when I'm not tired as fuck.
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--cut by huh what making one wall of a case and already pointing out how I could be bussing Pesco. :V
That wasn't what I was trying to imply. >:
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Oh man I heard this rumor there were more then three players in this game. APPARENTLY NOT.
HEY EVERYONE NOT NAMED HUH WHAT OR OMBA Get your behinds in here and tell us if you're switching/why we should care about your wagon instead. I would trust Keine over this lurkfest town right now.
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@PX: You already quoted the case.
Huhwhat has changed my view on Pesco. I can't believe I did not see most of that. Pesco is looking really bad to me now.
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Sheep is delicious.
Don't care about posting for the rest of the day since I'm tired. I've said enough for the entire game as is.
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco
There's no need for me to post my suspects because you guys deserve to lose if I did post such a list and you end up following it.
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Giving up is bad.
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Giving confirmable information is better.
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That was my idea first. Stop being a PX and play Mafia. I happen to know if you really are town that you're currently trying to send town down another mislynch, and probably a third with the newbie you hate for being a newbie as far as I can tell. Why don't you share your reads because it's what a good player would try to do in this situation?
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Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.
The entire PX wagon is probably town.
Please please don't make this assumption. There's plenty of chance that PX was town as well, making it easy for scum to be on either wagon as long as one of them succeeds (and that did happen).
About Pesco vs Shadoweh? If you hadn't noticed, my 'big wall of text' basically convicted Pesco without actually convicting him, mostly because I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it, and that I possibly had worse reads. Oh, and was also afraid of getting accused of OMGUS. HW's case just proves me wrong, though.
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco
Yes, this beats the Hero case. Defend yourself please?
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When I see the current situation, I see this:
(http://i.imgur.com/pPQeQ.gif)
So BOTH of the current wagons are going HERPDERP LET'S JUST SURRENDER AND GIVE UP. Shadoweh less so than Pesco. Pesco in a completely uncharacteristic anti-Win play by thinking lynching himself is going to yield some magical Shadoweh = scum info, which sadly it only provides ~*CIRCUMSTANTIAL*~ evidence for.
Results of Pesco read. One of his early posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727448.html#msg727448) contains a good point against Dan, even if Dan now flipped Town. He makes a vote on Schezo early, and then switches to Dan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728143.html#msg728143) with the most succinct case of the day. That's not exactly a happy thing. It's... huh, interesting how PX jumps on the Dan wagon with the exact same reason: Dan OMGUS'd. Opportunistic much?
Anyway, Pesco fixes this later (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728637.html#msg728637) and... well, that's mostly it, aside from more one-liners. Pesco is succinctness himself, but I'm not so sure it's exactly scummy. Someone'd need to restate the case on Pesco so I can clearly look at it, because right now I just don't see the scum. Day 2 posting isn't as bad as people are making it out to be, he's clearly scumhunting and I happen to agree Shadoweh was posting lots but refused to put her vote down or even look clearly in one direction to state that there was scum there.
Aside from the NK analysis stating one out of four people had to be scum, and that person was Pesco.
Christ are you all in some elaborate OMGUS ploy here or what?
Cut by BT bandwagon hopping blatantly. What the fuck?
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GUYS. STOP VOTING PESCO. PESCO IS AT L-!!
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Has JOB voted yet? No?
##Unvote
Dear Bard, I'm divorcing from defending myself constantly from you, there are only so many ways I can explain the same action before it gets stale. Want to lynch PX and Dormio? PS: I'll forgive your opinion since you're still suspicious of me, but you're due for some townie change of heart any time now. You haven't changed your opinion about anything in two days!
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GUYS. STOP VOTING PESCO. PESCO IS AT L-!!
Completely forgot to take into acount Pesco's self-vote. Although, last time I held off from voting because of L-.. well, we all know what happened.
bandwagon hopping
Do you think I didn't go over my post ten times before deciding if it was bandwagonous or not? I had a not-so-good read on Pesco, I voiced my reasons for that read, and this last page "fills in the gaps". Why would I not "hop on the Pesco wagon" if I thought he was my worst read? Since, at the moment, he is.
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The way I see it, is that I don't get NK'd if 1) my reads are wrong and 2) scum feel confident in lynching me. People that I ignored for the most part on Day 1 have to be looked at on Day 2 because the game state demands it.
Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.
Wierd stuff. But that's up to you guys to look at.
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Has JOB voted yet? No?
##Unvote
Dear Bard, I'm divorcing from defending myself constantly from you, there are only so many ways I can explain the same action before it gets stale. Want to lynch PX and Dormio? PS: I'll forgive your opinion since you're still suspicious of me, but you're due for some townie change of heart any time now. You haven't changed your opinion about anything in two days!
OK, want to lynch PX together?
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Do you think I didn't go over my post ten times before deciding if it was bandwagonous or not?
I think you went over it a few times. Possibly together with a scumbuddy. Seriously, what? "Hey guys I'm not bandwagon hopping because I was secretely super suspicious of Pesco all along but thought voting him was suspicious :V"
Jesus fuck this should never be a motive not to scumhunt your scummiest read, what the shit. I'm thinking right now it's probably the NEWBIE HERPDERP so prevalent in MOTK Mafia newbies, but seriously, don't repeat that shit this game. Vote the scummiest person and to shit if that's gonna make you look scummy or not. You will NEVER get lynched for voting scummy shit, unless you word it as though you're not voting scummy shit at all or grasp completely wild concepts for it.
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Also found HW's Pesco case so I'll read that. Hurff.
And on Shadoweh, still think she's scum. TBSS. AtE isn't necessarily town.
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Uh, he wasn't my scummiest read? And I wasn't "secretly suspicious" either. I voiced all my concerns at the time. I was suspicious, but not enough to go on a front. "This is probably a bad move" was a concern, yeah, but not one that stopped me from scumhunting, as I wasn't going to do that then either way.
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Quad posting is Town. I disagree with the Pesco case. Obviously shielding my scumbuddy here, but no, I don't see Pesco scum the way you lot do.
I'm not going to provide a defence for his actions, and I can certainly see how you might draw the conclusions Huh What's done, but I don't agree with the case on the simple basis that it is not that concrete. The mudslinging point against Pesco is absurd, given Shadoweh agreed to the point more or less by swapping off the PX wagon and onto Dan as a result. If anything, I'd hold that against Pesco, but it struck me more as a Townie convinced Dan was scum than it does for scum to do.
The rest of the links HW provides are all mudslinging themselves, calling Pesco scum for legitimate points, I feel. If Shadoweh votes based on GUT! and someone claims she's Town for it, why is asking for elaboration trying to make her look bad? I just don't see the case, and I'm not too happy with Huh What's claim that "Pesco is less likely to just be terrible Town", which feels like a setup to later abandon the Hero case if the mood strikes him.
Yeah no, I don't like the Pesco wagon. Sorry. I'll be sticking to my guns here. Shadoweh's done no scum hunting until a while into D2, sniping at Serela immediately after Serela posts despite information on Serela being readily available. Why not dig through that earlier? Why at all open the day with ~*NK SPECULATION*~ in a game where you can likely get BT, JOB and Serela as staunch supporters given their propensity in voting?
I've seen better from Shadoweh, and honestly this behaviour is totes unShadowehlike and would be SCUMMY coming from anyone else as well. Universally scummy + Shadoweh not-meta. THERE, CAN ALL THE METADERPS AGREE TO IT NOW?
If you hadn't noticed, my 'big wall of text' basically convicted Pesco without actually convicting him, mostly because I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it, and that I possibly had worse reads.
How is this at all saying you weren't stopped from scumhunting?
This usually isn't enough to scream 'scum', but I have other things bugging me which I have yet to identify. Honestly, if not for the exceptionally good content, I probably would have been making a case right about now. Neutral but UGH.
Honestly, if not for the exceptionally good content
I probably would have been making a case right about now
Let me repeat that.
I probably would have been making a case right about now
You're saying you were suspicious of Pesco all along. Granted, you note it. You never said he was scum, just NEUTRAL UGH, that he's got exceptionally good content which stays your hand from making a case. What changed between then and now that he's suddenly SUPER SCUM that you were grand suspicious of and convicted without actually being afraid to pursue the case?
You said it your goddamn self. I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it
"I was sure... I'd get even more shit for it."
You didn't want to vote him because you'd get shit for it. What changed, aside from a wagon now forming on Pesco? You're blatantly bandwagon hopping.
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The way you're going at this now, no explanation of mine will make you happy. Despite this, let me try explaining it all again.
I make a huge post. I reread everyone. I find stuff to warrant suspicion on Pesco, but as a whole it's not enough to be a prime suspect, so I don't go places with it. HW comes and presents a case that cements my concerns, and I now feel that Pesco IS my prime suspect, so I vote.
Those are the occurrences. Now let me see what your concerns are.
"Getting shit for it" was a concern. Not a prime concern. Pesco was a suspect. Not a prime suspect. I had worse reads, so I didn't vote. "Getting shit for it" was a concern that ADDED to that decision, not made the decision.
What changed? Is this an honest question? Yes, more people voting Pesco is a change. No, it is not the only change. HW posted a case I agree on. Did it add to my former suspicions? Yes, it did. Did it make me change my mind about my prime suspect? Yes, it did. Did the wagon on Pesco also contribute? Obviously. Was it what made me vote? Obviously not.
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I find stuff to warrant suspicion on Pesco
Wrong. You suspect a person and then find stuff to back it up.
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Way to claim something you can't prove and I can't reject.
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No, he's right. You first suspect someone and then use shit to back it up. You don't first dig up stuff with the express purpose of throwing shit on them: that's what scum do, we call it "fabricating cases" by construing innocuous shit into "LOL SCUMMY" and goad the masses along.
I still dislike your reasoning for suddenly jumping the Pesco wagon. It would've been fine if you highlighted your earlier passage, compounded it with how HW made you SEE THE LIGHT that Pesco's EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD CONTENT (your words not mine) is suddenly not even close to being good! Yeahno, your vote's shit.
The Pesco wagon's shit. Shadoweh is scum, BT is scummy, HW is neutral and Pesco is being a derptard by voting himself. Oh, and Omba's employing WIFOM in advance. Jesus fuck how can I like the Pesco wagon if the only one I could hold in any regard is HW, and the rest of its voting bloc is seven kinds of derp and/or scum?
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Omba falling in the derp category what with the WIFOM, prior to this and beside this I haven't found anything objectionable in his content, so.
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Also obvious chainsaw there for my scumbuddy but no. Shadoweh's vote reads like OMGUS, BT is bandwagon hop and HW's at least legit. Pesco's vote is obviously shit, and Omba's vote I'm not sure what to make of. This leaves a voting value (LOL PESCO) of 1.5, being generous.
Pesco had REAL INTENT on Shadoweh as do I, voting value 2.0, even discounting Dormio. The rest of you are scattered about and lurklurklurk. Even Dormio is lurklurklurk. I wish we had roles so we could vig the shit out of these policy-lynch candidates.
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I go off to recuperate for a bit and then... The hell is going on?
I dislike Pesco's change in behaviour, and have no idea how to approach it.
I'd say that it's anti-town, but is it going to scummy territory? Eh. I'm leaning no.
I still want Shadoweh lynched for what I stated earlier.
Also, I like how Shadoweh accuses Pesco of mudslinging and stuff when she does a similar thing to me.
In #447 she says that I typed garbage, which I will concede. Keep me away from booze during mafia.
However, I rewrote it in #459 and how does Shadoweh address it? Well, first off, she completely ignores it until #493 where she just dismisses it again.
I also dislike how Shadoweh seems to disregard all of Pesco's cases against her by AtE.
I mean, she sees it fit to post shit like: I have long stopped being able to tell if I'm actually being accused of doing something scummy or being Wrathie.
because Pesco is being aggressive in his tone.
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Anyways, none of this stuff is making sense so I'll just stick to what I had earlier, since the Serela lynch isn't happening.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Perhaps I can make sense of this stuff after some sleep.
Cut by bards what?
cut afgasin by doemio sleeeeeeeeep no
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No, he's right. You first suspect someone and then use shit to back it up. You don't first dig up stuff with the express purpose of throwing shit on them
Is that what he meant? If that's true, then I completely misunderstood.
I still dislike your reasoning for suddenly jumping the Pesco wagon. It would've been fine if you highlighted your earlier passage, compounded it with how HW made you SEE THE LIGHT that Pesco's EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD CONTENT (your words not mine) is suddenly not even close to being good! Yeahno, your vote's shit.
Hello? How is what I did with my vote different from that? "I had some original suspicions, didn't have the grounds to do anything big with them, HW posted a case, now I do." Dearly sorry I had to expand my words to make the exact same point, and somehow go from "scummy" to not. If you consider my reasoning shit, then I don't know where to start here.
Would love some other opinions here.
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And before you decide to AGAIN take my words out of context, what I meant by "didn't have the grounds to" included "didn't have enough to scream 'scum'".
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So Pesco how about this Shadoweh wagon can I convince you to switch to NOT ME over ME?
BT: You added addendums on how you were suspicious of Pesco all along so your vote was always meant to go there except you didn't dare. I'm saying it's scummy to try and justify your vote with "I was suspicious all along", because if that were true you'd not call him Neutral. You'd say SCUMMY.
Cut by BT: Ololol. It's not taking out of context, it's taking them as-is. You're saying you aren't bandwagoning because you were suspicious of him all along before voting him. That's just bad. Say someone is scummy if you think they're scummy, not 'neutral UGH' and then go "I was convicting him without convicting him", that's too abstract shit to wrap my head around.
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Also PX how about tossing a case in here before going LOLSLIP.
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Pesco self voting like that was scummy in it's own right, but I actually think that it's honest townie frustration instead.
The rest is lolwut? That wagon is bad. I agree with Bard. I think BT's wagon hop was questionable, but I think it's really just a newbie derp, I would have probably done that if I was still new (I'm not that new anymore guys).
And I seriously have no idea how Shadoweh never seems that suspicious to me at all. It's not just in this game, but a lot of games too. If someone could restate the case on her, I'd really appreciate it.
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I mean no serious, while I like having more votes on wagons I support I also like them being grounded and foundated and yours is neither. Produce case, what the shit man. Why is everyone in this game scum, and why can't we just policylynch the shit out of people like PX?
JOB as long as you act confused I'll call you a newbie, deal with it. (this is mostly better because like BT, it means I won't yell for your head as much)
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Ok, let me try something else. He wasn't "suspicious" all along. Rather, I had "reasons to suspect him". This does NOT equal scummy, because, aside reasons like these, reasons that suggest otherwise exist too. For me, it was good content. Then came HW and presented how this content wasn't as good as it had seemed, taking my reasoning for "neutral UGH" away.
It's nice and all being considered scum for being a newbie, then dismissed because of being a newbie. Instead, I'm trying to show you how this wasn't a newbie thing in the first place. Apparently, all this suspicion originated because I wasn't clear about this in my vote post, and this is the only 'newbie mistake' I see here, one I'm trying to fix right now.
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Shadoweh's case:
- She's done scummy shit so let's lynch her for being scum.
- Lol WIFOM to defend herself. "Why would Scum!Shadoweh do this?!" is WIFOM.
- Lol WIFOM to make a Day 2 case. Pesco is scum because NK. Using the same logic against her obviously doesn't apply! Shadoweh is scum because she planned to do this from the start! OMG! It's wonderful! And useless. Utterly. Shadoweh makes a terrible case and that's her Day 2 contribution after spending a few hours Not Voting but seeing how the waters flow.
- Her vote is ultimately on Serela. While still arguing Pesco scum. Vote on Serela is sniper, case is admittedly not too terrible.
- Lol Appeal to Emotion to defend herself.
- Backpedaling on Dan: first he's 'probably green-coloured' (being generous, she moreso implied he was Town for her) and then she's 'never had a Town read on Dan' and votes him. Off of a wagon she pushed for at first. Scummy as shit? Admittedly, more weird than super scummy. Notable? Yes, because scum're the type to forget whether someone read town to them or not: anyone not scum is obviously a town read for them! Townies are actively looking for whether someone is scum or town and wouldn't forget an important detail like that. Unless they're derps but Shadoweh's not a derp. Unless booze has finally killed her brain.
- Vote on Pesco is OMGUS AtE.
Succinct as can be.
@BT: And that's appreciated because it lends some clarity. The point I had most issue with was with the "I convicted Pesco without convicting him" "because I thought it'd be impossible to lynch him and I'd get shit for it" (paraphrased). Read any way for me, it read as "I was actually suspicious of Pesco all along, really guys", which you must agree with if that was the message conveyed it's a bandwagon hop plain and clear, yes? That you didn't INTEND to convey that message goes a long way, but that's how it came over to me and in that light, I have little choice but regard it as a bandwagon hop.
Of course, PX has perfected that art by being goddamn useless and scum but no one wants to lynch the shit out of him.
HEY PESCO, SHADOWEH, HOW ABOUT WE CONSOLIDATE OUR WAGONS ON PX'S USELESS AS SHIT BANDWAGON HOPPING ARSE? I'd also want to lynch Dormio if not that he's doing better today beside his booze-induced stupidity earlier. (Deal with it Dormio, that was unpossible to read)
-
And if you have to ask me? In all the excitement I forgot all about PX's scummy as shit arse because he's getting away with lurking so heavily everyone forgets about him until someone randomly mentions his arse. Because he's useless, and delighting in it by not offering any improvement. He's getting away with lurking, posting shit content, contributing little and just bandwagon hopping. It's baffling he didn't jump on the Pesco wagon but his jump on the Shadoweh wagon isn't really that great.
Ugh, but if we don't lynch one of Pesco or Shadoweh today we'll be repeating this song and dance tomorrow. Can we at the very least agree PX is not living to see D4? Because holy shit I don't think I want his scummy arse in the game that long.
-
Thank you Bard.
I SEE THE LIGHT!!!!
Now I see why you guys are suspecting Shadoweh scum.
I agree.
##Vote Shadoweh
Cut by Bard.
Let's lynch PX tomorrow, you 'an me.
-
(Deal with it Dormio, that was unpossible to read)
Which is why I reposted it, and then she continued to ignore it.
-
THAT MEANS SHADOWEH IS AT L-1 PEOPLE, SO DON'T YOU BRING YOUR TARTLY ARSE IN HERE AND HAMMER HER OUT OF NOWHERE.
-
Lolno.
-
I never unvoted silly :P
That was a gambit to see if any scum would expose themselves.
-
>_> Yeah I only parse ##VOTE commands.
-
Lol. I probably shouldn't have blown the cover so quickly. I'm surprised someone fell for it though. But not in the way I had planned (Plan was to get a vote on Shadoweh, then vote the scum who did it).
-
I really think that it tells us nothing about what he really thinks
If this isn't what I "really think", than what were you expecting? I'm all ears.
Remember this? This is why you thought I'm 'weird', and I didn't get an answer yet.
Also, I want these questions answered:
Is there anyone that believes that both Pesco and Shadoweh are scum? Why? (this is the easy one)
Is there anyone that believes that both Pesco and Shadoweh are town? Why? (this is the important one)
I believe we got into the Dan x PX shitfest last day because we didn't ask ourselves this. As for me, I have bad opinions on both, but I made it clear what choice I prefer, and I'm of the opinion that the chance of both of them being scum partners is so low it's practically impossible. If someone thinks they're conflicting town, say so now.
-
Is there anyone that believes that both Pesco and Shadoweh are scum? Why? (this is the easy one)
Is there anyone that believes that both Pesco and Shadoweh are town? Why? (this is the important one)
No. Because I now think Pesco is town.
No. Because I now think Shadoweh is scum.
-
For no apparent reason I was thinking of NK anal (in a non-dirty sense) and one of the reasons for the Schezo nightkill could possibly be killing a strong townie player that didn't have much to do with the scum in question.
Fun fact: PX only had Schezo's name appear 4 times in all of his posts this game. And one of them was in a quote by me. The most contact he actually had with Schezo was a vote on him.
Feel free to hate on me for saying that. I was just bored and had some random speculation.
-
I'll take a BT or Shadoweh lynch as per my posts throughout this day. PX I still don't know about.
##Unvote
Kitten's rules don't require unvoting. So JOB's vote did count.
-
##Unvote
Lol I thought they did.
-
If you support a Shadoweh lynch then why didn't you hammer? You said it's better to vote who you definitely think is scum than to wait till deadline to lynch.
-
I feel my play has only been going down since that game >_>
I do not believe both Pesco and Shadoweh, are scum.
I believe Pesco is town over Shadoweh due to the fact that I find Pesco's posts easy to read and look at, and Shadoweh is consistently using meta and theory.
Meta that I do not know having never seen her has town in the first place, and theory that just makes everyone more paranoid. Then after, she makes it sound like Pesco has a vendetta against her, and wants to kill her for the sake of killing her.
@Shadoweh: My Huh what case was dropped because I decided to trust my own analysis more.
Also seriously, how the hell do you think you can convince anyone with meta when at least 3 peoples here Don't Know Peoples Freaking Meta.
@Job: I really can't trust your views at all. Your vote posts don't say anything to me other then, "I want this lynch... NO I WANT THAT LYNCH. No I think I want the other lynch."
...I need to organize my thoughts more...
-
Discussion is still going on. If we were sitting with hours between posts, then hammering to end it would be what people were waiting for.
-
I'll take a BT lynch as per my posts throughout this day.
Is there any question you made about my behavior that I left unanswered? Were some answers lacking? You seemed to drop it out of nowhere, without updating your opinion on me, and now you're doing that but without explaining why it is so. If I'm still scum through your accusations, go ahead and explain why. If there's something else, you still need to explain what it is.
-
Discussion is still going on. If we were sitting with hours between posts, then hammering to end it would be what people were waiting for.
I thought so.
@Hero: It's nice to see you trying to do this by yourself for once. Now I would like to see something useful. I'm not sure if I can trust your views either. Oh wait, the majority of them are actually other peoples views.
-
Remember this? This is why you thought I'm 'weird', and I didn't get an answer yet.
I said that I dislike your #418.
Why? Because it just seems like you've been setting it up so that you can be on whatever wagon you want at any given time.
In addition, you find bad play, but give no reasoning on how that leads to scumminess.
Anyone can make mistakes, how does whatever mistake they made lead to them being scum?
It's just, how do I explain this? You're not looking for intent or something.
Except for Hero's one, which is the one you voted for.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX
Not Voting: Shadoweh, Pesco, JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~11 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
ITT Pesco stalls his wagon by voting himself. Seriously, it's like Shadoweh's AtE all over again. The fuck.
-
BT's been overly defensive about how his actions make him look. Ass-backwards kind of scumhunting and lolbandwagonhop.
Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.
This is seriously strange. I don't get what's the point of declaring Omba to be town here.
##Vote BT
I want a BT flip the most now so that I can look into Omba as well. Omba's voting today has been kinda dodgy when you really think about it.
-
BT's been overly defensive about how his actions make him look. Ass-backwards kind of scumhunting and lolbandwagonhop.
Overly defensive? If someone accuses me of something, and I can answer to it in some way, I do. That's what I did in our back-and-forth and now I'm legitimately concerned as to why you still suspect me, and you call it being overly defensive.
I already admitted countless times that I suck at scumhunting.
Do I really need to explain the "bandwagon" again?
This is seriously strange. I don't get what's the point of declaring Omba to be town here.
He thought the sudden reversal will make him look bad, so I felt the need to say it.
-
I'm awake!
Ooops I was supposed to go to school three hours ago.
Oh well.
I've never been good at gauging spats. This is why I took the Schezo-Dan spat from yesterday and threw it under a rock, Now there's a Pesco-Shadoweh spat and gdi one of them is most likely being the lynch.
No one even seems to remember how horrible Hero has been being :c
Fine, I can wait on a Hero lynch until tomorrow if I have to. We've got plenty of mislynches. But I really want him dead.
GUT screams that Shadoweh is not scum. If I try to apply logic to this line of thinking I get "scum!Shadoweh would not play like this". If I try to appeal to meta people like Bard did I get "Shadoweh isn't acting like her usual self? Well guess what she's been for the past bajillion games.", which is basically what Bard said.
But reading actual posts says she's scum.
I think I'm going to err on the side of her being town.
Pesco, I keep waffling between whether he's town or scum. I'm just not sure. I'm okay with lynching him I suppose because everyone is going to remain hung-up over it if we don't (You know it's true.), and because information is coolbeans. But I do think it's quite possible that both Pesco and Shadoweh are town.
Not interested in lynching BT, like, at all. Pesco has a good point about Omba, however, and I've been noticing this. Not someone I want to lynch today or probably even tomorrow, but in the future, should be looked into.
Hero still needs to die but everyone else forgot so I'm despairing in the possibility of this.
I just remembered OH HEY PX EXISTS. But he's being useless again. Pro-town+++! I'm okay with lynching him too because his content this game is almost nonexistent.
tl;dr
People I'd like to lynch: PX, Hero (Prefer Hero)
People I wouldn't sigh in disappointment if they were lynched: Pesco
People who are town: Huhwhat, BT, Bard, JOB
Erring on the side of town: Shadoweh
idk: Dormio, Omba
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX
Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~10 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
Do I really need to explain the "bandwagon" again?He thought the sudden reversal will make him look bad, so I felt the need to say it.
You felt the need to defend someone that could very well defend themselves and wasn't under any danger of being lynched. How does doing this benefit a town player? What motive is there for you to go this far for Omba?
-
The post you're talking about is the first post I made today. Which means, I responded to a couple of things that happened while I was asleep. One of them was the reversal, and this was merely "my stance" towards it. Yes, I thought it was needed. When I look at it now, not so much. I'm willing to admit that much, but you're making it into something completely different. My thought process was "letting the town know who you think is town is always good, so I may as well". I failed to focus on how much it was actually needed, and what possible conclusions it can create. I can't -prove- that it wasn't out of an intent to 'aid a scum partner' or whatever you're going for here, so I'll let the town make their own decision on the matter.
-
Town hunts for scum. We don't care if you can find townies.
-
Pesco: Case on me. Right now.
-
After BT flips.
-
Yeah, it's not like letting people know who you think is town has any value or anything. They can't reinforce/weaken their town read on you at all based on the people you ended up trusting, or anything like that.
Oh, wait, it is important! Because now you know for absolute certain that Omba is scum when I flip scum!
Honestly. Not only is my sarcastic remark very iffy (and this is AFTER assuming I turn out scum), but this is actually one of your reasons for wanting this flip so badly, which is ridiculous. You're the only one pushing for my lynch this far, even when I actually counter most of your reasons. So far, no one has supported this lynch but you, and there are 10 hours until deadline. You've been trying to make a case on me all day, and have had pretty much no progress. In other words, what you're doing now is only confusing people before deadline.
-
Pesco: Yeah right. That's exactly why I want it right now. Because most likely, we won't lynch BT today.
Actually, if you really want BT dead today, then that's even more reason to make that case now. If your case on me combined with assumed BT scum is really convincing, you might get people to switch to BT over that. You said yourself that part of why you want BT to die today is to look into me. It stands to reason you could get other people to share your view. TODAY.
-
I don't need to convince either of you of what I think at this point. I can only hope that the game's other players aren't so retarded as to not pay attention to what flipped townies point out before they die. You worry far too much for just a single vote, that as you say yourself, no one supports.
-
Had I not been worried, you wouldn't be the only one supporting this vote.
-
Phoneposting to balk at Serela's post. Good god, I desire to lynch all of you.
-
Pesco: Err... Obviously I'm not asking you to convince me to vote BT by making a case on me. I'm asking you to take the risk of actually getting BT instead of Shadoweh lynched today.
The flipped townie thing is funny considering Dan really wanted you dead before he died.
-
Your wanting of a case is still irrelevant because you're not voting for BT or Shadoweh. If you aren't asking me to convince you to vote one of them, then what's the point of making a case on you? I don't get what this is supposed to prove.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX
Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~8 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
Pesco: If you're scum, killing off Shadoweh today then going for BT tomorrow seems to me like a much better option than the reverse. And setting up a lynch on BT that will not get through today, then continuing tomorrow where you left off today seems like a good way to go about this. Making a case on me right now could only hurt you if you're scum, so I'm asking you to do it.
For that matter, I know there's enough to make a case on me regardless of BT's flip, so that's even more reason to make it right now if you're town, suspect me and think you're going to die today. I'm so not buying the "you don't deserve my reads" thing. No, really.
-
Oh, also.
There's no need for me to post my suspects because you guys deserve to lose if I did post such a list and you end up following it.
I don't need to convince either of you of what I think at this point. I can only hope that the game's other players aren't so retarded as to not pay attention to what flipped townies point out before they die.
Seriously?
-
Explain more clearly how it hurts ScumPesco to make a case on you right now? BT's scumminess drew my attention to you. On your own, I'm undecided on you after all that's been said and done today. Flip BT first and I can make a better evaluation on the voting pattern that I've seen.
Schezo (5): Pesco, huh what, PX, Omba, BT
There's three things you can do in RVS: post nothing, go lolrvs, or try to end RVS by starting serious discussion.
Guess which of these three looks scummy when other people already chose the third option. Not seeing any actual drive to find scum from you there.
More importantly, not seeing any in your posts after this, either.
##Unvote
##Vote Schezo
Guess I thought you were implying that "if one of them is town--> the other is town", which is usually a set-up. That's why I voted, not because I think they both might be scum or something. If that's the case...
##Unvote
##Vote Schezo
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco
Complete reversal of my read, will probably get me lynched regardless of which of you two gets lynched today and what his flip is, or possibly even before either of you two.
But one of you two is scum and one scum is worth ~6 townies in this game so fuck if I die for it.
Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.Please please don't make this assumption. There's plenty of chance that PX was town as well, making it easy for scum to be on either wagon as long as one of them succeeds (and that did happen).
About Pesco vs Shadoweh? If you hadn't noticed, my 'big wall of text' basically convicted Pesco without actually convicting him, mostly because I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it, and that I possibly had worse reads. Oh, and was also afraid of getting accused of OMGUS. HW's case just proves me wrong, though.
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco
Yes, this beats the Hero case. Defend yourself please?
What is all this? Let Omba lead and BT follows. Both times, without much backing of the vote from BT. With this interaction I'm pointing out, BT has to flip first because Omba could still be town that scumBT is sheeping after. Omba's Schezo vote is faultless in its context. But Omba's votes today are lacking. Never said much on his HW vote when he made it, fliflop between Shadoweh and myself. There might be something wrong there Omba but BT needs to be lynched first. I think interesting interactions can be uncovered.
Cut: Smart players evaluate the analysis from dead players. Bad players follow it blindly.
-
The rest of the links HW provides are all mudslinging themselves, calling Pesco scum for legitimate points, I feel. If Shadoweh votes based on GUT! and someone claims she's Town for it, why is asking for elaboration trying to make her look bad? I just don't see the case, and I'm not too happy with Huh What's claim that "Pesco is less likely to just be terrible Town", which feels like a setup to later abandon the Hero case if the mood strikes him.
I probably should have elaborated on that a bit more.
It didn't feel like the point needed to be brought up. It was fairly obvious Omba wasn't looking for town intent so much as "stuff he didn't think scum would do" (which is silly but that's aside the point), so Pesco's post looked more like he was trying to take advantage of the situation to make Shadoweh look bad rather than a genuine question that needed to be asked. Or at least that's how I felt when reading the interaction.
Not sure what to say to the second thing other than "I have no plans to drop my suspicion of Hero" but I can't really prove that. I want them both dead, really. I just thought I saw more concrete scum intent in Pesco actions, which isn't intended to imply that I didn't feel there wasn't any scum intent in Hero's.
Speaking of which, I really should be writing up my Hero case at this point but I'm honestly really tired of this game and don't even like the POST HUGE PSUEDO-POSTBYPOST WoT CASES EVERYDAY playstyle. :/ I'll see what I can do.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX
Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~7 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
You're acting like my flip will have some kind of game-changing revelation. If I'm scum, Omba could still very well be town (you've said this yourself). If I'm town, Omba could still be scum. There's no guarantee of anything here anywhere. OK, it could lead to a "better" evaluation. Lynching ANY player (unless they happen to be idle or lacking in content, in which case you wouldn't be lynching them for better reads anyway) could give you better evaluations on an unlimited number of players. It is NOT an excuse to lynch someone, and you're not going to convince people that didn't agree with the rest of your arguments to lynch me over this. In fact, if you're scum, this is a very nice way of wasting a lynch. I flip town, you do whatever you want with a 'better evaluation' and no one can do anything about it.
-
Hi, uhm, I hate to interupt this wonderful conversation but PX is scum and I feel really stupid about yesterday now.
No seriously. Why the hell is the only person that 'knows' I redirected a town lynch to a town lynch voting for me? The rest of you can WIFOM and argue about omg Shadoweh's scum partner and crap, but PX should be the only one who knows what happened. That might not mean alot to you guys yet but.. No, it really should. It doesn't make any sense.
Wow why are neither of us above 3 votes? This is going to end with a bunch of compromising on both of us, isn't it?
Pesco, do you still think I'm scum?
-
And I, for one, am tired of people complaining they don't want to play after signing up. Clearly though, my complaints won't help, but I believe a post-game discussion regarding this is in order. We need lynch only two scum: we outnumber them a paltry five to one. Now get in there and tell us why Hero is one of those two.
-
Shadomeh, phoneposting at the moment but I like the idea of lynching PX, held back onlyby knowing this bullshit will continue tomorrow... Whatever, PX's flip would lend more information if notjing else, and I like my idea that he's scum. Phoneposting so being succinct, will say more later.
-
Also... (completely unrelated to Shadoweh's PX post, I was cut)
Hi5 Bard.
##Unvote
##Vote ActionDan
I think I'm done with my vote on Schezo. The reactions are good enough and people don't seem interested anymore.
Dan's PX and Dormio votes look OMGUS when read in ISO.
I look forward to what Dan's next post can come up with.
##Unvote
##Vote: ActionDan
Dear god, that OMGUS is so bad that I'm gonna take another post to explain why it is :|
Gonna have to drop BT seeing as there's no interest. Shadoweh has been making less sense than drunk-posting Dormio on meds. Active lurking and zero scumhunting on Day 1, making a weak vote and trying to weasel out of being caught for the poor voting reason today, and IMO from above, pushing a policy lynch.
##Unvote BT
##Vote Shadoweh
Anyways, none of this stuff is making sense so I'll just stick to what I had earlier, since the Serela lynch isn't happening.
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Perhaps I can make sense of this stuff after some sleep.
Cut by bards what?
cut afgasin by doemio sleeeeeeeeep no
Do we flip PX now?
-
BT: Pesco is scum likely to be lynched, why do you care what he says?
*hugs for huh what* Bard is right, it's too early to be fed up, this is going to be a long haul game anyways. Keep townie motivation up! Also if you stay strong you're more likely to be nightkilled. \^.^/
-
Explain more clearly how it hurts ScumPesco to make a case on you right now?
Assuming it would lead to more people voting BT because of more people interested in information about me gained by lynching BT. It's BT dying today that would hurt a scumPesco; he'd then either have Shadoweh attacking him for another day or would have to waste a NK on someone he could have lynched otherwise.
Smart players evaluate the analysis from dead players. Bad players follow it blindly.
This is true. That wasn't what I was pointing out, though. It's the disconnect between "not going to post my suspects" and "I hope people will follow my analysis". If you had more suspects than you had told us at the point you refused to list your suspects, it doesn't fit. No one can evaluate an analysis that was never posted.
Shadoweh: Do you still think Pesco is scum?
--cut by Shadoweh
-
Sure go ahead and flip PX if you want. What Pesco/PX has that's not in Omba/BT is that we've spoken about each other and made it clear that we don't find each other scum. I believe it's a stance that myself and PX will keep until a cop can prove otherwise.
@Shadoweh: You're scummy independent of BT. Your latest call for scumPX makes as much sense as DotS-balance. When we were both tied at 3 votes apiece, I offered myself to die. You want to fight me over who who gets to suicide first?
@Bard: I like to believe that Hero is a good kid and isn't scum. He does his own scumhunting and his tunneling isn't scummy, it's his show of intent.
Cut: If I post a case on YOU, I expect people to vote YOU.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): Serela
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX
Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~6 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
Hero lynch isn't happening, my next favorite lynch as I've said is PX, and I see lots of support for a PX lynch!
In other words,
##unvote ##vote PX
-
Pesco: Instead of just saying it makes as much sense as DotS balance, can you explain to me the reasoning for a town!PX to vote me at any point? I don't think it's logical. And it wouldn't matter which of us dies first if we're both town. You would still have some credibility even if I was lynched. You've effectively killed anyone's expectations of my abilities already.
What do you think of how Hero hasn't actually been tunneling? He hasn't felt latched onto anyone.
Omba: I'm looking if this BT case has any merit first. It's true that he's overdefensive, which I've been dismissing as a scared newbie.
-
Just got back from class, but BT, what?
You're going to refute Pesco's arguement... and then use it to throw it at me and Pesco? ?????
-
Omba: I'm looking if this BT case has any merit first. It's true that he's overdefensive, which I've been dismissing as a scared newbie.
I'm not asking if you still want Pesco lynched the most, I'm asking if you still believe in your case on Pesco.
-
Gahhh being cut a lot.
BT: Pesco is scum likely to be lynched, why do you care what he says?
I don't know if you've realized, but... it's currently 3-3. Assuming you and Pesco stay as prime lynch candidates, you re-lynch and Pesco goes back on your wagon, it's 4-4. Serela looks like a Pesco vote, JOB and PX look like a Shadoweh vote. Unless they've reread a bit and changed their minds, you're getting lynched.
And why wouldn't I care? He's trying to get me lynched in a stupid way. Nothing is set in stone, and with all the stuff he's been flinging at me for the entirety of today, he could have possibly assembled a wagon on me quite easily had I not argued against it. He's still trying to arrange one on me, so I'm still arguing against it.
Just got back from class, but BT, what?
You're going to refute Pesco's arguement... and then use it to throw it at me and Pesco? ?????
Sure go ahead and flip PX if you want. What Pesco/PX has that's not in Omba/BT is that we've spoken about each other and made it clear that we don't find each other scum. I believe it's a stance that myself and PX will keep until a cop can prove otherwise.
I was just demonstrating how you can easily build accusations like you did with little effort. PX was just a wild example. Also, what's your point?
It's true that he's overdefensive, which I've been dismissing as a scared newbie.
I like replying to anything I'm able to reply to (like I'm demonstrating here). In this case, it translates into being overdefensive. This is a bad habit.
-
Also I meant "JOB and Hero".
-
Just got back from class, but BT, what?
You're going to refute Pesco's arguement... and then use it to throw it at me and Pesco? ?????
Sup dawg, some of us are arguing you're scum, your response is pretending the argument doesn't exist?
-
Oh I forgot that Scum!Me could have just lurked through BT hammering PX instead of attracting all this attention in the first place. More depressing reasons I don't think any of you are really rereading the game.
why BT wasn't voting Dan. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728818.html#msg728818) This is an explanation of why you aren't voting Dan. There isn't a single reason in here why you voted for PX. Your reasoning for unvoting Dan is pulled from huh what's post here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728764.html#msg728764)
Honestly I don't think this is worth lynching over, nor are there many connections besides Omba. The following isn't true at the most important point of yesterday either. Omba wanted Dan deader then dirt and BT refused to vote because he wanted to hammer PX. I'd rather lynch Omba then BT if it came down to it.
Omba: If I was ever sure on anything I wouldn't be me. I think the parts not written in anger still hold. His answer to my pointing at PX was to deride it, so he's still doing the same thing as earlier. Trying to redirect the lynch onto BT at this point doesn't exactly make sense as scum though.
I'll be back in a few after I get drinks. Every other time you guys have hammered me before I got back. =.=
-
What do you think of how Hero hasn't actually been tunneling? He hasn't felt latched onto anyone.
Hero's been backing up his words and actions and he's scumhunting.
I was just demonstrating how you can easily build accusations like you did with little effort. PX was just a wild example. Also, what's your point?
I'm not afraid of anything whereas you're afraid of everything.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (1): Serela
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX
Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~5 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
I've literally spent the last 15 minutes trying to understand your logic. With no success.
Also, stance on PX vote: I don't think my opinion changed at all about him since last day. Which means, I'd still look for better options. Currently, there are better options. I also fear that a wrong lynch on PX will bring little to no progress.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (3): huh what, Omba, BT
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (1): Serela
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (3): Bardiche, Dormio, PX
Not Voting: Shadoweh, JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~4 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
COULD WE WORK TOWARDS A LYNCH PLEASE.
Seriously. Two people aren't even VOTING, no one has posted in the last hour, Hero's vote is on someone who has a 0% chance of getting lynched, these are things that need to be fixed.
I'm going to be here all day and I'm willing to vote Pesco. But I'd rather have the PX lynch, whom many people have shown support for.
Shadoweh/JOB/Hero and anyone wanting to switch to PX needs to get their vote thrown down somewhere if we don't want a randomlynch by Keine.
-
Here, back home, catching up.
What the fuck wagons are we supporting.
-
So we're still fucking divided? Jesus christ, guys. For once I agree with Serela, we cannot let Keine-tan decide. So, Pesco, Shadoweh or PX? WHO'RE WE GONNA VOTE?
-
I'll vote Pesco over Shadoweh and both over PX. Will most likely be here for deadline.
-
##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh
The only thing I don't like about a Shadoweh lynch is that she gets to be dead before me.
-
I'll vote Pesco over Shadoweh and both over PX. Will most likely be here for deadline.
The people who want a PX lynch should note this.
-
Gahhh being cut a lot.I don't know if you've realized, but... it's currently 3-3. Assuming you and Pesco stay as prime lynch candidates, you re-lynch and Pesco goes back on your wagon, it's 4-4. Serela looks like a Pesco vote, JOB and PX look like a Shadoweh vote. Unless they've reread a bit and changed their minds, you're getting lynched.
I fail to see how my flip will aid Pesco in pushing a lynch against you, other then him being alive and proven to be pushing Yet Another Town Lynch.
I don't feel like a number of people today have presented or even considered other cases today. This day has been far too polarizing. Admittedly alot of that is my fault. I went to go find PX's posts from the only scum game he's been in. Suffice it to say I think he posts way too differently now for it to matter. >_>
Shadoweh is going to be here until day end. I'm not satisfied with what's going on. I feel like this has been a perfect day for two scum to duck and cover while the cannons fire. The people I look at with suspicion the most besides Pesco (Dormio, Hero) aren't even blips on the rest of the town's radar. They aren't blips on his radar either of course. I'm told honesty is a bad thing, but I think not questioning whether what you're doing is right is worse. In the end I still believe a Town Pesco would have been able to notice my sincerity and is above lynching for textbook reasons.
##Vote: Pesco
-
Your flip wouldn't aid a lynch on me, but if we go with either you or him (which is what's happening right now), this is what I predicted will happen.
And, oh look, it's already happening.
Anyway, like I said, a PX lynch isn't ideal. But, if we're forced to in order to stop a rand (aka, if JOB fails to vote or Hero fails to change vote), that's where my vote is going.
For this, I have to stay up till 4 am... ugh.
-
Omba is town. NO scum would EVER first get such secure town reads, then knowingly throw it all away with a move like that. Unless, of course, Omba and Shadoweh are scum, which I really don't think is the case, especially after Omba finally decided to change his vote from HW to her.Please please don't make this assumption. There's plenty of chance that PX was town as well, making it easy for scum to be on either wagon as long as one of them succeeds (and that did happen).
Reading this over again, I noticed the words NO scum would EVER. The assumption of scum never doing something is bad.
I also need to ask what Serela did that made him go from vigbait to an uninteresting person.
...
I refuse to vote Pesco, and I give Shadoweh the benefit of doubt...
Screw you all I want my random lynch.
-
You're already voting the biggest wagons. What have you got left undone?
-
Screw you all I want my random lynch.
How the fuck would this be town-motivated?
-
Even if you think wanting a random lynch is anti-town, it's TownHero to me. The fact that he doesn't care about what anyone else wants.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (4): huh what, Omba, BT, Shadoweh
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (1): Serela
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (4): Bardiche, Dormio, PX, Pesco
Not Voting: JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~3 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
Pesco is at L-2
Shadoweh is at L-2
-
Even if you think wanting a random lynch is anti-town, it's TownHero to me. The fact that he doesn't care about what anyone else wants.
So he's just a horrible player as far as you care. :derp:
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (4): huh what, Omba, BT, Shadoweh
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (1): Serela
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (4): Bardiche, Dormio, PX, Pesco
Not Voting: JOB
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. D2 ends in ~2 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=12&year=2011&hour=20&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
Pesco is at L-2
Shadoweh is at L-2
-
K so a PX lynch pretty much isn't happening, then. On to a Pesco lynch!
##Unvote ##Vote Pesco
-
Kiitan has more posts then some people today. -.-
JOB where the hell are you. I didn't reread why you decided I'm scummier now, but I assume someone said something and you called it genius and sheeped to them. It better not have been Bardiche since his case hasn't changed in 70 hours.
Rereading. Yeah, I remember why Hero is town now. I can understand the random lynch sentiment. Laisir can't do worse then it seems we are. If he thinks we're both town, lynching a random other person wouldn't be as bad as lynching one of us. (It is, but not from that perspective.) If he's not going to switch though and JOB forgot why I'm town, someone else needs to switch.
Pesco, if you're town don't you dare hammer yourself. If you're scum go ahead and hammer yourself!
-
Lol @ Shadoweh blatant lies. I didn't make my Shadoweh case 2 hours into Day 2, missy. The latest revision was when you were going LOOK AT ME I'M SO SAD RAGE to get people to pity you. Well, seems to have worked. Congrats.
-
##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh
I don't think I've ever bounced reads around this much before. :colonveeplusalpha:
-
...Okay what the fuck
Shadoweh's latest post is freaking...what?
Her suspects, Pesco, Hero999, Dormio. Using Sid as a reference for every expectations from ,e
Pescos posts stuff.
Sudden memory of Why Hero is town.
.........
Wow I feel like taking back my statement and hitting shadoweh with it now.
-
Lucky I got sick, otherwise I wouldn't be here for deadline.
@Shadoweh: I liked Bardiche's case. It made sense to me, and now I get why you were being called scum.
##Vote Shadoweh
Not a gambit this time.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (4): huh what, BT, Shadoweh, Serela
Serela (1): Hero999
PX (0):
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (6): Bardiche, Dormio, PX, Pesco, Omba, JOB
Not Voting:
Shadoweh has been lynched. She was a Vanilla Townie
Night actions are due in 24 hours.
-
Overnight Omba died. He was a Vanilla Townie
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (0):
PX (0):
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting: Bardiche, Dormio, PX, Pesco, JOB, huh what, BT, Serela, Hero999
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch
D3 ends on October 16th at 9 PM EST (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=16&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
Hey guyz, if you see the scum, could you please tell them this for me?
[nsfw]http://sadpanda.us/images/506326-6W2O68Z.jpg[/nsfw]
-
>Overnight Omba died
>Omba died
>Omba
whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
okay fine
I'm too sleepy to actually say anything, but. My thoughts about Hero and PX from yesterday still hold.
##Vote: PX
we were so close D1 guise can we finally lynch the scum today
-
Uhh.Why are there only two posts since day start?
I want to say first that I did not see Omba's vote before I hammered Shadoweh. I had intended to put her a L-1 but I had no idea she already was there.
Now then.
##Vote PX
His lynch is long overdue.
-
I... well, this was interesting.
I was going to stay up in order to post this:
Scum, scum everywhere.
I know we all have a lot to say, but before we do anything, I demand that the following people state their opinion on players and what route they want the town to take:
PX
JOB
Serela
Hero
Dormio
Why? Not enough involvement, not only during last day, but during D1 as well! I will NOT accept another day like this. Right here, right now, you are going to take a stance on your own. No "I agree with playerthathasactuallyexplainedtheiractions". This is why I want this done NOW, and before anyone else posts. So, for this, I'm also asking for everyone else to not post for a while.
There should be NO excuses, a lot has happened and not having any opinion is unacceptable.
I was not expecting an out-of-the-blue PX wagon, though. If you really want this, expain why it's better than every other choice and why, since currently, there are many choices and plenty to say about each choice.
I'm going to post 'my thoughts' once these people post, and JOB and Serela explain themselves.
-
Fair enough. I'm not posting until those 5 have all put out some content.
-
I was going to stay up in order to post this:I was not expecting an out-of-the-blue PX wagon, though. If you really want this, expain why it's better than every other choice and why, since currently, there are many choices and plenty to say about each choice.
The PX wagon happened because PX hasn't done shit.
And I summed up my thoughts on D1 with my opinions post.
If you really want another post then I'll do it. I just think I have at least had some involvement with town.
-
Notice how I said "not enough involvement". I didn't say you were idling the whole game.
Don't you think D1 opinions are a tad outdated now?
-
I did notice you said "Not enough", I just thought I had done more.
I'm doing a reread now. Will be done whenever.
-
Here we go.
"Pesco: Looking town for some reasons, but looking scum for other reasons. His contribution is not exactly the best in early game, but during D2 he starts putting out a lot of content. I've already explained how he can get his point across using few words, but I would really like to see what he could do with a really long case. His Schezo vote early D1 was terribad, because the only reason he gave was "You sound scummy now". The fact that he mentioned policy lynching Shadoweh at LYLO disturbs me. A lot of his posts are filled with questions, which can be a town tell because of scumhunting. His Dan case was pretty good, would like to see more cases of that length and depth from him. His giving up was bad, but I could see it as townie frustration. Overall I would say that Pesco is town. The only thing he has really done bad was tunnelling on Shadoweh and BT.
Hero999: Okay, Hero has made what, 19 posts (not including confirmation post)? That's what I counted. There is not enough at all from Hero here. He really needs to get his ass in gear and start posting some more. All his parroting was bad, and if he says he is going to start using his own scumhunting powers instead, I would hope he starts very soon. I would say that arguably his best post was the one that focused completely on Serela. Because that actually had something in it. He is scum unless he starts contributing, then I can decide for real.
Serela: Serela also needs to post more (18 posts(not including confirmation)). But I think that compared to Hero, Serela actually tries to put content in his posts. The only part I don't like about Serela is the lack of posts, but I'm fine with everything else. Town.
Dormio: Dormio appears to have lower activity than Hero, but surprisingly he actually has more posts. I don't really find anything wrong with Dormio other than his activity levels. Town.
Bardiche: Bardiche is town, no doubt about it. He has made solid cases, and contributes a lot. The only issue I really have with him was his early D1 (and that wasn't much of a big issue) and the fact that he hasn't been nightkilled yet Town.
Huhwhat: Huhwhat is also very town. He has made solid cases, and contributes a lot. I don't really need to say anything else about him. Town.
BT: BT was bad D1, but he was still trying. His D2 wasn't the best either. He had an argument with Pesco and he didn't really do too much either. In fact, I think he actually had less contribution than me overall. I had a decent D1 and D2, but his D2 was probably the only one with any good contribution. I think he's a confused derptownie.
PX: I don't really have anything else to say on PX other than what I have already said. He really needs to post some content. Policy lynch plz."
-
@Serela: What the hell? You prefered my lynch so much yesterday, you even stated that you prefer Hero over PX, and you stated that you feel the same as you did yesterday, so what the hell? Your actions don't match what you say. -_-
@Job: I'm personally starting to feel that your attacking just for the sake of attacking me. Your only case on me is that I was parroting. Which by itself is a pretty weak case apparently. Which you've held onto since ...D1? D2?
@Pesco: I have some views on why you would hold back on content, bit after all is said and then, I wish for you to clarify why you say such a thing.
And thats all I can say at the moment, schools calling.
-
@Hero: The reason why I'm still attacking you is because I have not seen any improvement since I first accused you of parroting. But I've stopped accusing you of parroting, because your not doing that anymore. In case you didn't notice, I'm attacking you because you haven't done much at all, just like PX.
-
Oh and Huhwhat still hasn't posted "Why Pesco and Hero are scum Vol.2: Hero".
-
I did far too much talking yesterday. There's definitely scumsheep in these parts.
-
I, too, would like to hear the others speak. Pesco and I both contribute a lot of :words: to the thread, and given we've been wrong in our directions thus far, it seems reasonable for scum to let us live to generate more words while they skirt by.
Serela, why PX over Hero?
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (0):
PX (2): Serela, JOB
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting: Bardiche, Dormio, PX, Pesco, huh what, BT, Hero999
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. D3 ends in ~56 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=16&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
-
... Also I swear I will lynch the shit out of the lot of you if you just lurk past the day.
-
okay home from school wheeeeeee
K. Hero/PX/Dormio/Pesco are the only people I don't believe are town. Even Pesco I'm leaning towards town a little. And then Dormio I'm like "idk", but now that I think about it, how much did he say yesterday, again...? Anyway. Out of those, Hero/PX are definitely the two people I don't like.
PX makes like no content at all. His d1 consists of exactly two posts with one case in them and the rest is pretty much useless, his d2 has like one post of content and the rest is pretty much useless. PX is active lurker as fuck, and should die.
Hero is... well, he has more content then PX. He still has barely any content. His d2 had a terrible case on huhwhat ( I don't care if the other lynch choice was lead by ALL your scum picks, someone picked by a majority is better then a Keinelynch for several reasons, one of which being ~*~information~*~), and then OMGuS'd me and that was about it.
tbh I think they both look really scummy and I waffle between which one I want to die first, I'm perfectly fine with lynching either as long as we lynch ONE of them. And to use tbh again, I don't think they're scum together purely because I hope Kitten would change one person on the scumteam if the RNG chose those two together. But trying outguessing the mod is bad, plus it would be a really DUMB way to lose, so it by no means clears one if the other flips scum.
I had another paragraph but it was really dumb and useless and speculatory so I deleted it herp derp
ilu bardcut
-
Then someone tell me, what kind of information did we even get out of Shadoweh Lynch?
For me I feel like its a freaking wall right now, because of the intense focus yesterday on 2 people, there really was no information I gleaned out of the shadoweh lynch.
Please tell me how the shadoweh lynch ended up better then having a laiser random lynch.
Anyways re-reading now weekends huzzah
-
Please tell me how the shadoweh lynch ended up better then having a laiser random lynch.
because everyone would have kept being hung up on shadoweh otherwise and kept calling for her head
When half (or more) of the game is convinced someone is scum, letting them live another day probably won't make everyone suddenly think they're town, even moreso because this is vanilla and there are no role shenanigans to save you. But, with her gone, at least now people can concentrate on OTHER things! Hooray.
-
One thing I like to note is that by looking at the Votes currently Serela was on both counter wagons. I consider this something like avoiding detection.
I remember before the Shadoweh + Pesco spat, that Omba had mentioned Huh what.
I look at him now, and when I consider certain things.
JOB has mentioned about the Why Pesco + Hero Vol.2 being missing. Coincidence?
This declaration is also a claim to have nailed the scum team, which is something really suspicious in my eyes.
He declared Serela as vigbait at the beginning of D2 , and has since then not mention him in the slightest.
Throughout D1, he was with Schezo going, um...hello scum there lynch him. While Schezo tried to do the convincing, Huh What was seemingly just following along.
D2 He tries to start a wagon on me, he says he did not bother trying to continue to convince people because they were not interested.
If he truly believed I was scum, then there was no reason for him to have not tried to convince people even if it clogs up the thread, because even if it does clog the thread up, atleast hes bringing attention to it. Which he did not. Other then "Look at Hero! hes so Scummyyyy" "See He matches his name!"
...Where was I again?
Ah right, ##Vote Huh What
-
K. Hero/PX/Dormio/Pesco are the only people I don't believe are town.
And why is everyone else town?
-
All I have to say is: Ugh.
How does I words?
##Vote Serela
Oh and PX is actually making words now. This makes him... less bad. But his D1 is still horrible. But I think I'll go ahead and
##Unvote ##Vote Hero
Hero lynch isn't happening, my next favorite lynch as I've said is PX, and I see lots of support for a PX lynch!
Fine, I can wait on a Hero lynch until tomorrow if I have to. We've got plenty of mislynches. But I really want him dead.
Hero still needs to die but everyone else forgot so I'm despairing in the possibility of this.
I just remembered OH HEY PX EXISTS. But he's being useless again. Pro-town+++! I'm okay with lynching him too because his content this game is almost nonexistent.
People I'd like to lynch: PX, Hero (Prefer Hero)
Hey, what is this?
When and why did PX take priority over Hero for you? I mean, you opened today with a vote on PX, despite how often you called Hero worse than PX.
GUT screams that Shadoweh is not scum. If I try to apply logic to this line of thinking I get "scum!Shadoweh would not play like this". If I try to appeal to meta people like Bard did I get "Shadoweh isn't acting like her usual self? Well guess what she's been for the past bajillion games.", which is basically what Bard said.
But reading actual posts says she's scum.
I think I'm going to err on the side of her being town.
Pesco, I keep waffling between whether he's town or scum. I'm just not sure. I'm okay with lynching him I suppose because everyone is going to remain hung-up over it if we don't (You know it's true.), and because information is coolbeans. But I do think it's quite possible that both Pesco and Shadoweh are town.
Nice waffle and fence sit on the two main wagons yesterday.
And then there was pretty much no content at all from Serela.
It is interesting to note how all of his targets seem to be whoever is popular at the time.
Also, blatant sheeping.
##FoS PX
-
And why is everyone else town?
Hmm... everyone else is Job/Bard/BT/Huhwhat
They pretty much all seem to consistently be good contributors and make nice posts and be cool and stuff, basically.
Not that I'd be utterly shocked if one turned out to be scum, but that's something to be left for later in the game when more likely suspects have already been weeded out. They are, simply, much more town-looking then everyone else, as of so far.
Oh hey dormio cut
Complains at me because I want to vote my other scumpick instead of the scumpick I liked more yesterday
they were both my scumpicks, is it -that bad-? ;_;
Dormio says my targets are "whoever is popular at the time". LOLWUT? Dude... my targets yesterday were the NOT popular people. Hero was barely even mentioned by most people, and he was my biggest target yesterday. And I didn't want to lynch the people who WERE popular.
You say I waffle and fence sit about Shadoweh/Pesco, when I say "Shadoweh is probably town" and well I guess I sorta fence sit on Pesco but pretty much I made clear I didn't particularly think he was scum and wanted Hero/PX dead way more.
And I make cases on Hero/PX, both yesterday and today, (Okay the PX one is sorta tiny but jeez he doesn't really do anything to make a bigger case on in the first place) question Hero and get places doing so, even provoking him into OMGuS'ing on me, and you completely ignore that, instead saying "Nope no other content from Serela".
basically Dormio's case on me is made of misrep
and then dormio goes from "neutral but process of elimination makes him likely scum" to "I don't like him and process of elimination agrees with me", hooray.
-
also the "blatant sheeping", I can't tell if it's pointed at me or PX. It'd be cool to explain what you mean there regardless of who it's pointed at. If it's at me I don't know how I'm sheeping when I seem to be going against what the rest of town wants to do so I'd love to find out what I'm apparently doing wrong here.
-
TRIPLE POST AWW YEAH.
Hero's case on huhwhat has been made significantly better. I still think Huhwhat is town, but it's not a bad case anymore. Another reason why my vote is on PX instead of Hero today. Would be so cool to lynch scum!PX today and then scum!Dormio tomorrow, but I'm probably getting ahead of myself here. If I'm overreacting about Dormio I'll probably realize it when I wake up tomorrow.
-
Uh, what is misrep?
Nice OMGUS read change there, though. Keep it up. :D
Dormio says my targets are "whoever is popular at the time". LOLWUT? Dude... my targets yesterday were the NOT popular people. Hero was barely even mentioned by most people, and he was my biggest target yesterday. And I didn't want to lynch the people who WERE popular.
>PX
>Not popular
Wut?
And I make cases on Hero/PX, both yesterday and today, (Okay the PX one is sorta tiny but jeez he doesn't really do anything to make a bigger case on in the first place) question Hero and get places doing so, even provoking him into OMGuS'ing on me, and you completely ignore that, instead saying "Nope no other content from Serela".
And you accuse me of misrep'ing? I said and then there were none, implying that the Hero and PX things that I was referring to kind of existed, you know?
You say I waffle and fence sit about Shadoweh/Pesco, when I say "Shadoweh is probably town" and well I guess I sorta fence sit on Pesco but pretty much I made clear I didn't particularly think he was scum and wanted Hero/PX dead way more.
Uh huh. I like how. unlike the other people you go out of your way to label as town and stuff, you use vague terms for both major lynch candidates.
The blatant sheeping is something I'm doing by FoS'ing PX.
-
Hero's case on huhwhat has been made significantly better. I still think Huhwhat is town, but it's not a bad case anymore. Another reason why my vote is on PX instead of Hero today. Would be so cool to lynch scum!PX today and then scum!Dormio tomorrow, but I'm probably getting ahead of myself here. If I'm overreacting about Dormio I'll probably realize it when I wake up tomorrow.
And I like how you place a cover for yourself, so you can gauge interest in how many people find me scummy or something.
You know, something that you've kind of been doing all game. Waiting for people to find other people interesting, that is.
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And I like how you place a cover for yourself etcetc
you know how I post and then contradict like half of everything I thought in my previous post fairly often in mafia
that's what tends to happen when I wake up the next day :V
Not that that's necessarily a good thing, but it's how my brain works. /shrug
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Dormio (0):
huh what (1): Hero999
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (1): Dormio
PX (2): Serela, JOB
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting: Bardiche, PX, Pesco, huh what, BT
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. D3 ends in ~51 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=16&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
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welcome to next episode of Serela Thinks Dormio's Case is Bullshit
Dormio's Case On Me, as of before I called him out on it
-You opened today with a vote on PX, despite how often you called Hero worse than PX.
-Nice waffle and fence sit on the two main wagons yesterday.
-And then there was pretty much no content at all from Serela.
-It is interesting to note how all of his targets seem to be whoever is popular at the time.
The last one is still incredibly wrong because PX does not equal All Of My Targets and the "Whoever is Popular" applied way more to Pesco and Shadoweh then PX anyway.
The third point is still pretty wrong.
First one is still "So?" because they're both my scumpicks anyway
And the second is wrong because I did not waffle and fence sit on them. Waffling is going back and forth between my feelings about them. I picked a solid stance and kept it. My stance on Pesco could be considered a fence sit, I guess.
So your case sucked. Now lets get to stuff you said AFTER I called you out!
And you accuse me of misrep'ing? I said and then there were none, implying that the Hero and PX things that I was referring to kind of existed, you know?
you didn't even quote or refer to my hero case anyway
And even so, it's a pretty loaded statement. "And then there was no content from Serela" instantly implies I made no or extremely little content simply in how it's worded, even if when getting in technicality it doesn't truly mean so.
Uh huh. I like how. unlike the other people you go out of your way to label as town and stuff, you use vague terms for both major lynch candidates.
So just because they're major lynch targets I'm supposed to have concrete opinions on them? I said I thought Shadoweh was erring on town, aka more likely town then scum. Honestly I had a town read on Shadoweh since early D2 but since she was looking bad, my read looked incredibly unjusitified, and I knew it would be retarded to actually say that I was positive Shadoweh was town, as well as completely unhelpful to working towards a town win.
Besides, I didn't want to lynch either of the major lynch candidates. Sorry for not building up super cool stances on them. I wasn't interested in them and still aren't.
Honestly I don't see how what Dormio is saying holds any water in a case trying to portray me as scum and if PX didn't need to die so bad today I'd vote Dormio right now.
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Hmm... everyone else is Job/Bard/BT/Huhwhat
They pretty much all seem to consistently be good contributors and make nice posts and be cool and stuff, basically.
##Vote Pesco
##Unvote
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well when you consider that it's JOB, what I said seems about right
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also hey Dormio, care to tell us how you feel about people NOT named Serela? I mean yeah you FoS'd PX but who wouldn't do that at this point, seriously
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I'M BACK! IT'S THE FUCKING WEEKEND FUCK YOU UNI YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways, if you look at NeoSerela's voting history, you'll find something interesting. He has managed to avoid voting every single person that has flipped Town, he has managed to avoid voting on the big wagons until the very end of the day rush, and he's always off the wagon that's lynched and flipped Town. Coincidence? I just noticed that he kind of... ignored my case here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730200.html#msg730200). Reading more....
Apparently, from D2 onward, you said you wanted Hero dead. Despite the fact you said absolutely shit nothing on Hero D1. And you never even said why you wanted Hero dead, why he was scum, all of D2. Your D2 ended up going waffly on both Pesco and Shadoweh, saying "S/he could be town, could be scum." And it seems like you've been following huh what's opinions and defending him. Buddying up? In addition, your link to the night kill choice is an absolute blank. Actually, looking at both night kills, they're a complete blank in terms of connections to you. Seems like good night kills to avoid being linked to later on. In addition, it looks like he's trying to set up me and Hero so that when one of us flips Town, he can say the other one is scum and set up a mislynch based on another mislynch.
##Vote: NeoSerela
Pesco, huh what, and Bardiche are Town.
JOB is fucking useless. All he has done all game is restate popular opinion. ALL GAME. Can we just policy lynch him soon? Because I don't want him in Lylo, and I'm sure you guys don't want either.
Hero... I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and labling him as town. He's consistent, and I don't like Serela's case or push on him.
Dormio, I would put him on Town leaning neutral still....
And BT I don't know
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And you never even said why you wanted Hero dead, why he was scum, all of D2.
Okay you can't read. Just gonna throw that out there.
Your D2 ended up going waffly on both Pesco and Shadoweh, saying "S/he could be town, could be scum."
Okay you still can't read. Just gonna say that again because you can't. Maybe this applies a bit to Pesco, I admit, but I think I've made it pretty darn clear by now I thought Shadoweh was town.
He has managed to avoid voting every single person that has flipped Town
not my fault you people keep lynching my town reads
he's always off the wagon that's lynched and flipped Town
I tried to get PX lynched D1. He almost was. I tried to get Pesco lynched. He also almost was. It's not my fault the wagons I am are not getting lynched. There is a difference between finding evidence that your target is scum and using coincidence to make it LOOK like your target is scum. This statement also applies to your stuff about the NK.
Look, we've got two scum making cases on me that don't hold water. Fascinating! Let's lynch them and win now, please?
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I just noticed that he kind of... ignored my case here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730200.html#msg730200).
did you even READ d2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730530.html#msg730530) I mean you don't seem to know about ANYTHING I've said on it
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JOB is fucking useless.
Look who's talking.
And it's nice to see Dormio post finally, but I don't necessarily like his Serela case either.
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Also, all five of those people BT was calling for reads from? They've done it (Even if Dormio still really needs to post again with more). So everyone else can start posting now, too, please. Too much of it feeling like the only people here are me and scum with cases that look like swiss cheese.
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But you thought I was town.
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Still missing HW and a few more words from Hero. In the meantime
##Vote Pesco
##Unvote
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SORRY SORRY was super busy for like the first 24 hours of the day and have only really had time to skim posts until now. no i didn't give up on this game like i probably gave the impression i was going to at the end of yesterday. This is probably gonna be really incomprehensible because my brain feels weird right now and also because I wrote this post in an inconsistent order.
This declaration is also a claim to have nailed the scum team, which is something really suspicious in my eyes.
So according to the other players, if I don't act overconfident then I'm not trying to convince other people of my case, but the second I start sounding like I have conviction then I'm really suspicious and throwing around scumpairs even when that wasn't my actual intent? <_< I'm not sure how youseem to have drawn the conclusion I'm throwing around scumpairs, I didn't post any associative tells between you and Pesco and I haven't even been considering those at all. If you're just saying that I shouldn't have claimed I nailed scum, then uh, claiming to have nailed scum isn't suspicious, what. It's dumb and I only did it for the sake of making my post look flashy so people would actually listen to me because they never do, but players do that shit all the time regardless of alignment, I'm not sure why you're attacking me over this.
He declared Serela as vigbait at the beginning of D2 , and has since then not mention him in the slightest.
Have you considered that I might not be talking about Serela because I don't consider him vigbait anymore? He's actually posting opinions that make sense now, this is something that he was not doing before I called him out in that post.
Already defended against the other stuff back when Omba was poking me over it so yeah.
Before I get to the meatier stuff I'll say that my gut dislikes Serela's posts today ("Hero's case on huhwhat is better now but I think huhwhat is town but it's a good case so yeah"? What? also the overreaction to the omba nk is weird, i mean while omba wasn't a super amazing nk choice or anything it's not like he wasn't unlikely to be lynched and therefore worth removing from the game. damn it people stop overreacting to nk choices that make sense, scum is going to make oddball kills if they know we're looking into everything and it'll just result in a bunch of stupid everywhere).
RIGHT SO about that Hero hate that I should have posted yesterday.
- Convenient placement on the D1 wagon on town!Dan over a case that countered Dan's points instead of searching for Dan's scum intent (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727449.html#msg727449) gave him an easy way to cruise through the day pushing for a townie lynch and look consistent even though his case actually kinda sucked (that attack on dan for misinterpreting pesco's post and prodding pesco for clarification is still bad because that on its own wasn't scummy at all, it was just human).
- d2 case on me is just as ingenuine, i'm sorry i had to be the one around to hammer obvtown dan i guess but that doesn't really make me scum? pretty funny how he just kind of dropped the case halfway through the day actually. seems like he wanted omba's vote to become a wagon. rest of the day was just kind of him being a background presence while everybody else squabbled and made a bunch of noise, i think this fits scum's agenda because scum wants to remain hidden amidst townie arguments, and D2 was the best place for him to do that. When he actually had to give an opinion on a slapfight it was just based on meta and contained a lot of waffling (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730987.html#msg730987). Doesn't look like he was putting genuine effort to help town decide between Shadoweh/Pesco, which would make sense if it was a townie slapfight like he claimed to think it was. Serela case wasn't too bad but now then he already dropped it? Curious if he went into the day thinking he'd have a better chance getting me lynched than getting Serela lynched.
- D3 case on me isn't the logical conclusion of his D2 case at all. Looks like he's trying to dig up random dirt on me (particularly arguments taken from other people, ie the "HW DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH CONVICTION WITH HIS CASE" parts which he could have cited at any time yesterday but didn't until today for... some reason) with the intention of building a case on me rather than finding me suspicious and backing up his points (Serela line is an example of this). oh my god you suck. OKAY but no seriously hero's cases are all based on attempting to counter his target's points and scavenging minor points he can try to snag them on. it wasn't honest scumhunting on d1 and it still isn't, and on d2 he took advantage of all the noise so that he could get away with not having an active presense, like scum would want to do (especially in a set-up like this where they need to cruise by). let's go murder him.
##Vote Hero999
~PESCO~ is still shifty imo for all the reasons that d2 wall had but i want hero dead first again because of the way he basically walked by the d2 noise while whistling innocently and pretending he had nothing to do with it. in hindsight i think that's worse than openly accepting the spotlight like pesco did, didn't think about that yesterday because these things are easier to notice when the day isn't still actually happening (read: bad excuses for not thinking things through). also i'm curious what pesco thinks my alignment is because i dunno i've been getting the impression that he's been kinda irritated with me all game (but that might just be toward people in general).
I think PX's opinions on Shadoweh were coming from a townie who's views have been slanted by his earlygame stances (ie that random attack on her in the middle of d1). He was lurky but I don't get the impression that he was trying to invoke coasting like Hero seemed to be (since Hero didn't really touch on Shadoweh/Pesco until late in the day, and also Hero felt like he had less presence in D2 than in D1 while lurker PX is consistent even though it's also dumb) so yeah that's cool. Though I do think Bard should talk about PXscum again in case I'm missing something, I've liked his insight this game (hw openly claims sheeping to bard oh man).
Uhhhh I don't have much to say about BT and JOB and Dormio and people I've forgotten, ask me specific questions about them and I'll answer I guess? If I had to guess who is the most likely to be the sheeping scum that Pesco keeps talking about then I'd say JOB. He just kinda started supporting the Shadoweh wagon halfway through the day without ever talking about why, which makes no sense when you consider posts like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730953.html#msg730953) and this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730810.html#msg730810). Consistancy, what the fuck is that. Hey Serela, why is JOB town?
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Also Pesco what's up with the voting shenanigans? Can't tell what you have to gain from that in vanilla mafia unless you're just trying to get attention.
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@Huhwhat: I already explained my support for the Shadoweh wagon silly. Bard's case summed it all up for me, and I could see Shadoweh doing it, and I thought it was bad.
Hmmm, I can't decide between lynching Obvscum Hero and Uselessscum PX now.
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OK, so there we go! I am a bit worried I'm still alive due to how off-track I've been so far but goddamnit, everyone's scum.
Would lynch: Dormio, PX
Would not lynch: Huh What, BT, Pesco
Can be convinced to lynch: Hero, Serela
So yeah, the dread Dormio/PX scumteam. Let's talk about why these two are shit and why they deserve the noose.
Let's start with Dormio and his very first post in the game (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727406.html#msg727406), which is cheerleading a wagon on Shadoweh by pointing out WIFOM, but then jumping on BT for utterly camp reasons. One has to wonder about priorities (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727417.html#msg727417), as he continues cheerleading the Shadoweh case by accusing her of active lurking while sticking to a BT case, which is reasonably weaker. BT is a new player, I can't imagine Shadoweh active lurking is a weaker charge than BT not making sense yet.
To point out: defending another player is BAD, but it's not a scumtell by itself. Only once the other player flips, and even then it's circumstantial, where active lurking is scummy any way you slice it. His jump off of BT is sudden and hardly explained (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727808.html#msg727808), other than that Dan is suddenly worse. He comments that Dan doesn't have cases except PX for ED1 stuff, and that Dan doesn't have comments about the rest of the game.
Up to this point, Dormio has had a case on BT for early day 1 stuff and hasn't commented on anything not Shadoweh or BT. Hypocrisy isn't scummy, but it is when you pretend that the same traits in other people is scummy. I'll note the excusing for activity because this shit was done last game by Dan himself, until we lynched his red-coloured arse.
He explains his case later (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728021.html#msg728021), but calls it a reiteration: as if he had to restate a case. Look at the previous post. Is there really a case? His case comes down to "Dan has too many Town reads", and repeats a request for more about the rest of the game. Dormio has still not commented on the rest of the game, focusing solely on Dan without ever going back to how Shadoweh or BT are scum. Or anyone. He's slamming Dan for town reads but doesn't seem to dispute whether the person in question is Town or not, and the add-on from post #150 onwards is just "Dan is defending himself", which again is not a trait that alone defines scumminess.
The case up to this point is Utter Shit. His excuse for not commenting on the rest of the game himself is anyone not mentioned is town or neutral (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728146.html#msg728146), and everyone is neutral to him. Way to dodge responsibility. His case on Dan becomes further shit when he clears Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728147.html#msg728147) without any explanation to it himself, and minor suspicion on BT which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Up to here, Dan is scum, Shadoweh is Town, BT is "a thing" and everyone else is neutral.
Don't scumhunt now, you might tire yourself out. His "a thing" of BT is based on Early Day Content, which he still holds against Dan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728153.html#msg728153) alongside not commenting on the rest of the game, where his comment was a blanket "everyone's neutral".
He later contradicts his own case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728787.html#msg728787) by saying he doesn't care about who Dan thinks are Town. Even though he voted Dan for clearing people as Town! Dan doing "anything" to save himself isn't really Scum, you know. Town also want to survive, unless you're Pesco and have to suffer Serela clearing JOB as useful content.
NOW THEN, on to Day2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729678.html#msg729678), where Dormio just succesfully lynched Dan based on who Dan cleared as Town and that Dan defended himself too much. This is fucking circumstantial and terrible, in my opinion, but alright. Vote goes to Shadoweh after she was his only Town read the other day! The case isn't that bad, but it's stuff that happened Day 1, and I ill see how that reads as Town one Day and as SUPER SCUM PRIORITY #1 the other Day, and no, he hasn't mentioned anyone outside of Dan/BT/Shadoweh as possible scum yet.
He later finally materialises something and that something is that there is one scum and three weird (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730405.html#msg730405), where Huh What is mysteriously mentioned but later not touched on. Pesco also mentioned. These are people others were voicing suspicion of. BT is still there, and he claims that's because BT's list tells us nothing. Whereas Dormio's tells us more amiright. After blanket clearing everyone as "neutral" earlier on, I find this objectionable content from Dormio.
He then moves on to respond to BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg731001.html#msg731001), and we still don't know why Huh What and Pesco are "weird" for him! And then on to D3. Wow, this is going fast. Ninja vote on Serela out of nowhere (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732331.html#msg732331) based on content from the previous Day, which he made no mention of at all the previous day!
And that's it. No really, that's it. Dormio hasn't done anything else the entire game and has never actively tried to scumhunt besides latching onto the popular Shadoweh case with a good enough case but yeah, that's it. He's mentioned BT, Shadoweh and Dan as scum suspects, one of which went from Scum to Town to Scum, and now suddenly votes Serela out of nowhere, ignoring his suspicions of Pesco and Huh What the previous day. Or his suspicion of BT.
PX case is that he's shit and a lurker but I can write one up by POST ANALYSIS if people really want me to. Do I really need to restate how PX's content doesn't exist?
Want to lynch either of these two, not only for lurking but also because what they HAVE produced is scummy as shit.
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Also Words of Text hoot hoot. I've read over the opinions of everyone else in the mean time and appreciate that they've come out with :words: and :opinions: now. Let's get this shit on the road and lynch ourselves some red-coloured bastards before LYLO comes around because holy crap we only have two scum, I don't want to lose to a team of two.
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...
@Huh what: ...Your comparing me...to Pesco...?
...This is wrong on so many levels...
@Job: I would like it if you could actually restate your case with actually NEW content?
The only thing I can really remember from you are your smart-guy comments...GENERATING USELESS NOISE.
...You have absolutely no comments on Dormio's case on Serela other then "I don't like?"
You have absolutely no questions for Dormio at all when he was here?
You sound like your so set on your reads that you aren't considering other possibilities.
Are you so confident in your reads that you won't bother with other possibilities?
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RE: Bard: Haven't really processed the Dormio case yet, but why do you think that PX's D2 lurking is worse than Hero's? D1 I can understand, but on D2 PX spent less time avoiding the main spectacle of the day, so I feel Hero's looks worse. Also, what's your opinion on JOB? You left him out of most of your post, even your list of lynches.
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@Hero:My case on you is that you haven't been providing enough content. Just like PX. If you can improve and provide more content, then I will be happier, because right now you are coasting through the game.
I don't have any questions for Dormio because there isn't really anything I want to question. Dormio's case on Serela was bad because I agree with Serela that Serela didn't actually do those things.
I'm obviously not completely set on my reads, but they're my strongest reads so I will support them all the way.
Cut by HW
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Oh I almost forgot I could do this. Well bah.
~*~Townie Motivation ~*~
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...JOB
You read like you're COASTING ON POPULAR OPINION WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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...PX
You read like you're COASTING WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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RE: Bard: Haven't really processed the Dormio case yet, but why do you think that PX's D2 lurking is worse than Hero's? D1 I can understand, but on D2 PX spent less time avoiding the main spectacle of the day, so I feel Hero's looks worse. Also, what's your opinion on JOB? You left him out of most of your post, even your list of lynches.
I need to read Hero to really get a grasp but he didn't particularly stick out to me. Maybe it's because I'm bull-headed that I'm so set on PX, but Hero's content, from what I remember, is at least more than PX's content.
I've left JOB out because I don't consider him scum at all. I would stake my life on it: there is no way JOB can be scum.
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How have you come to the conclusion that there is no way I can be scum?
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Alright, let's see what I can muster out of this mess.
Let's see... what happened in D2? Random accusations, massive polarity (yikes!) and a very silly end. Omba "reversals" again and makes me think of 101 (maybe 3 or so) theories on "how he could be scum" without being sure about any of them. I'm sure this happened to some other people so I'm kind of surprised about the NK but I already tried looking for conclusions and found nothing glaringly big. Then we have JOB the (accidental?) hammer and Hero who doesn't hammer. Hero I'm kind of annoyed he took the whole "random lynch is better since these choices suck :V" stance after not participating in the bulk of the day, which is really stupid. But the thing that's more obviously wrong is JOB's hammer, which didn't even let Shadoweh respond to Hero's accusations OR Omba's wagon hop. It's like he picked a very convenient part of the lynch to "oops-re-vote" and end it before anything else happens. This isn't screaming 'scum' for me, though, since this is AFTER Omba changed his vote and made the Shadoweh lynch more likely than anything else. Basically I'm reading JOB's move as a very stupid move and Hero's as... well, annoying. But nothing to call him scum over.
Bard and Hero are both refusing to do anything wrong, so aside from the lack of NK I don't see anything here.
Pesco... I still don't like. Nothing has changed, but since the remaining scum choices (read: players) are Dormio/PX/JOB/Serela/Hero, all of which have avoided any sort of focus AT ALL yesterday, I'm willing to put this on hold for a whole. Mostly because going back and forth the whole day didn't amount to much progress too.
JOB looks to me like town. His posts aren't great but I don't see any scum intent in them at all.
Dormio and PX are lurkers. PX has shown this especially, replying to random comments on random times. In fact, a lot of his comments are only there because someone accused him of something, and he's being defensive about it. Hero I'm slightly less sure of, and Serela I'm pretty sure is not. Dormio was pretty set on his targets the whole game (never straying from me, Shadoweh, Dan and now Serela), and I too have noticed how he called Pesco and HW weird without explaining himself afterwards. It looks like he's trying his best not to make too much accusations in fear of... something. Seems scummy, but doesn't seem scummy enough.
Hero still refuses to act like a townie in my eyes. His posts are mainly questions to other players with no real progress aside from the accusations here and there, with most of them not being good accusations at all. Also, when he actually chooses to reply to someone, it's usually because that someone voted for him/accused him of something. Kind of like PX, but this time it's slightly less painfully obvious. Despite this, I can't put my finger on something and follow it with a "you're scum" accusation. He just... doesn't look good.
Serela has had weird posts, but he's mostly giving me townie vibes. Unlike some others, he doesn't actually seem to be lurking. Rather, he just doesn't pay attention, and he posts when he manages to pay attention / understand what's going on. The thing that started bothering me though is the sudden assault on Dormio, which I am seeing as OMGUS. Dormio has done nothing exceptionally wrong and Serela tries accusing him with "everything he can" (that's what I'm getting out of his posts), and so suddenly. And, you betcha, this started immediately after Dormio's vote on him. I see this as bad playing, but not necessarily scummy behavior. For some reason I get the same "lack of scum intent" vibes I got from JOB.
As a some sort of conclusion: I'm still not entirely sure. I'll try rereading these last few pages again, but honestly, there's "some" reason to lynch any of these guys, but I don't see any "bigger" scum. Might take me a while to completely settle with my opinion here.
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Doesn't look like he was putting genuine effort to help town decide between Shadoweh/Pesco, which would make sense if it was a townie slapfight like he claimed to think it was.
I don't think so. If Hero believed both were town, then it IS right to try push another lynch into viability.
also i'm curious what pesco thinks my alignment is because i dunno i've been getting the impression that he's been kinda irritated with me all game
Null read, therefore highly suspicious.
Also Pesco what's up with the voting shenanigans? Can't tell what you have to gain from that in vanilla mafia unless you're just trying to get attention.
Gotta kill myself to wake up from the dream.
I would stake my life on it: there is no way JOB can be scum.
Bard please look at Shadoweh's sig and retract this statement. For your own good.
Still a lot to read over and recheck. Would the sheep put down their votes so we've got YOUR dedicated stances in the open first?
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Lemme tell yah a story, of how a guy had to choose or randomly kill 2 people. He loved both of them, so he decided to random kill.
The end.
@BT: ....What did you mean by Bard and Hero not doing anything wrong?
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Meant to say HW.
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..Wait my story is wrong...holy shit I suck D:
@BT: So you have reread the pages a bit more, any new opinions?
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I wanted to do a bigger reread once more posts show up. If it's urgent, I can do one now.
(you're interfering with my slacking off...)
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@Bardiche: Inb4 you eat your words like Kitten did.
@BT: I just looked over that part, and I feel like your trying to say that you want them to do something wrong.
....
@Huh What: please clarify where I had an opinion purely due to meta? Just because I use the word does not mean that I'm using it to clear people.
(Its weekends, I want words and I want them now)
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... God I need to actually got to start compiling things again.
@Huh What: Why would I help town if they are trying to kill two people I believed to be town? That would be anti-town for me, and the fact that the information we actually got from Shadoweh's lynch was NILL. Please tell what kind of information we got at all from Shadoweh's lynch?
The reason I voted for you over Serela, also had part to due with the fact that OMBA was the only one aside from me to have expressed suspicion of you.
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Well, obviously, if someone does something
wrong, your read on them changes. I want people to post so my read on them changes. Was this even worth explaining?
I'll get to rereading soon...
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Pesco, the day is growing short. Mind sharing your opinions on who are scum, since the sheep seem to be unwilling to decide so hastily?
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In brief words:
I have a neutral read on HW and Dormio, which is not a good sign. I still don't like BT for not making a vote yet. I doubt he's as noob as he's claiming to be. Increasing dissatisfaction with PX. Using a meta clear on him isn't going to cut it anymore since even given the opportunity he hasn't produced.
##Vote PX
I don't have the words for a case. Deal with it.
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Dormio (0):
huh what (1): Hero999
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (2): Dormio, PX
PX (3): Serela, JOB, Pesco
Hero999 (1): huh what
JOB (0):
Not Voting: Bardiche, BT
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. D3 ends in ~32 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=16&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
PX is at L-2
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I'm gonna be at a wedding all day today, so I'm notngonna be able to post until the end of the day.
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The reason I haven't voted is not because I don't have choices, but because I couldn't find the best choice. Oh, and I'm not claiming to be noob, I'm claiming to lack scumhunting experience.
Let's see. We have Dormio the tunneler who won't post anything but a few posts outside of said tunneling, in which he shows that he indeed has one main suspect, before proceeding to focus only on him. Do you suspect anyone other than Serela? What do you think about me, Pesco or HW right now? Why do you feel that way?
We have PX, who has shown signs of following the thread without actually contributing anything (and by that I mean 0 content). His "cases" so far were either band (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728168.html#msg728168)wagoning (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730946.html#msg730946) or... well, his case on Serela, which to me looks like a big "what if", seeing as most if not all of his accusations have some sort of logical explanation to them. To me it looks like making a quick case, with help from Dormio's earlier case (which may or may not have been coincidental, seeing as a Dormio-PX scumteam possibly exists), in order to create a wagon, delaying his own wagon.
And we have Hero, whose only original cases have been against HW, which I see as OMGUS (his accusations were bad regardless). Oh, and he had something against Serela here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730564.html#msg730564), which, like PX's case, looks pretty bad. Yeah, I'm under the impression scum are gunning for Serela as an "easy lynch" now. He didn't vote in the D2 vote "because Pesco is town and I'm giving Shadoweh the benefit of the doubt", despite not saying anything earlier (we're talking about 2-3 hours before deadline). Yeah, try convincing me this isn't avoiding the vote as a whole, you won't succeed. I still don't like the whole "lots of 'scum pointers' but no big contribution" thing. At least he's giving a bigger picture when he does that, though.
I'm leaning towards PX here. Like I pointed out earlier, he seems too defensive at times, and his "contributions" are either bad or don't exist, and this is despite actually being active. Besides, I already don't like what he's doing today. If you want to save yourself from a wagon, trying to build another one definitely isn't the town way.
##Vote PX (L-1 !!)
..oh, what a fantastic post to have cut mine. v_v
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And that is sheeping.
##Unvote
##Vote BT
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I think these new meds are doing something weird to me. It's 5AM, I haven't been able to sleep and I don't feel tired at all. I guess that gives me more time for mafia!
The last one is still incredibly wrong because PX does not equal All Of My Targets and the "Whoever is Popular" applied way more to Pesco and Shadoweh then PX anyway.
>Implying that you adding words like "probably" and similar ones didn't mean that you could switch onto them whenever you wanted anyway. Especially when you used definitive terms for other people that you proclaimed as town.
The third point is still pretty wrong.
What contribution did you give outside of "Hero and PX are scum"?
And the second is wrong because I did not waffle and fence sit on them. Waffling is going back and forth between my feelings about them. I picked a solid stance and kept it. My stance on Pesco could be considered a fence sit, I guess.
Oh like I give a fuck about what the proper word is. Waffle, say nothing of any real significance. Same thing. And "probably" to you is solid when you have said things like "definitely" in regards to other people? And you admit that you did so about Pesco.
So your case sucked. Now lets get to stuff you said AFTER I called you out!
you didn't even quote or refer to my hero case anyway
>Implying that there was a hero case worth responding to.
It was, what? "Made a bad huh what case and not much else." On top of that you never explained what you thought was bad about it, just that it was bad and you wanted him lynched so hard for it. Best case amirite? :V
And Serela's activity today has been spectacular, right?
>"lol PX is scum"
>forget about Hero
>"lol OMGUS Dormio is scum"
>Secret Barrage 「And Then Will There Be None?」
Lemme tell yah a story, of how a guy had to choose or randomly kill 2 people. He loved both of them, so he decided to random kill.
The end.
The hell does this even mean?
Cut by confusion!
Oh, and BT is still the only unconfirmed. :D
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You didn't even "have words for a case" and you call what I'm doing sheeping? Hell, even if I was sheeping, that's not going to warrant you complete change in scumpick.
You're not even doing this subtly anymore-- you're waiting for me around the corner. And that is not town-like at all.
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OK, Huh Whatty, I've read over Hero, and I can't make heads nor tails of it. It may be due to his diction or it may just be because I'm me. Why is Hero case superior to lynching Dormio or PX?
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##Vote: PX
##Unvote: PX
That's where my vote is, just for clarity sake, but not putting to L-1.
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You didn't even "have words for a case" and you call what I'm doing sheeping? Hell, even if I was sheeping, that's not going to warrant you complete change in scumpick.
You're not even doing this subtly anymore-- you're waiting for me around the corner. And that is not town-like at all.
It does because it's proven that you make no effort to scumhunt on your own.
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So I reckon my last post just appeared out of nowhere? Or maybe I copied it from some unknown source?
Saying something like that is dumb. Claiming that it's "proven" is even dumber.
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If your post didn't come from nowhere, then why wait until over half the day had gone and PX was at L-2 already to vote? Your post and vote could have happened way earlier. I find it scummy that you do this every day.
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I voiced who I thought was a suspect, without deciding on which one I wanted to vote. I was not certain who I'd be voting for then, so this couldn't have happened way earlier. Not casting a vote at all would be worse, so I voted the moment I was more sure of my choice. In fact, you're the one who promped me to vote, here:
I still don't like BT for not making a vote yet.
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Pesco, do you find BT scummier than PX?
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Also I like how Dormio doesn't deign to respond to anything I charge him with. :V
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So if I didn't post at all, you weren't going to vote. Because that's textbook sheeping.
@Bard: I want BT to die first.
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No, that's not what I said. Now you're just putting words in my mouth.
I'm not going to let you polarize this day. If you keep throwing baseless accusations at me I'm just going to start ignoring them.
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I don't think so. If Hero believed both were town, then it IS right to try push another lynch into viability.
I got the impression that he was trying to avoid getting caught in the scuffle instead of trying to push his prefered lynch over the town's prefered lynches. If he wanted to push his prefered lynch into viability, he could have been tried to rally up support for Serela's death. Waiting until the last minute to say "I want a randomlynch" instead looks lazy, given that it's the inferior option and could easily result in one of Hero's two town reads or even Hero himself dying. The way he handled his defense of Pesco/Shadoweh looks more like he was trying to advantage of it than stopping it, IMO.
Pesco, how do you feel about JOB, particularly given what I said about him at the end of my post?
@Huh What: please clarify where I had an opinion purely due to meta? Just because I use the word does not mean that I'm using it to clear people.
Rescinding that attack because now I'm realizing I misread your post. <_< I thought "consistently using" said "consistent using" and that you were using meta and theory to make your decision.
OK, Huh Whatty, I've read over Hero, and I can't make heads nor tails of it. It may be due to his diction or it may just be because I'm me. Why is Hero case superior to lynching Dormio or PX?
Hero is scummier than PX because Hero's low content during D2 looks like an attempt to skirt around getting too involved with the Pesco/Shadoweh wagons, which is what I believe scum would want to do in that situation (flying under the radar and all that). See above reponse to Pesco for explanation on this. PX actually tied himself to a wagon when it was necessary and had talked about his opinions on Shadoweh and Pesco before he really "had to", while Hero did not do this until the very last moment and it'd look odd if he didn't. Hero's actions are scummier because he was giving town less to work with and avoiding tying himself to flips.
I think I'll need to re-read Dormio before commenting on that part. PX is a town read for me at the moment, but Dormio has just been kind of there and I recall disliking him until Pesco/Shadoweh became distracting.
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JOB is sheep too, but he isn't as blatantly bad in that he could decide to make a vote without being told to.
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Results of Dormio ISO!
...actually, this is pretty bad. You know how I dislike Hero avoiding giving town sufficient enough content to work with after flips? Dormio is scummy in that regard as well for basically only talking about his preferred lynch targets for most of the game and giving vague hints at most when forced to talk about other people (stances on Pesco and me). Furthermore, Dormio typically hasn't been engaging in discussion with players other than the ones he's targeting, and that makes it feel like he's not really interested in socializing and helping us come to a proper decision for our lynch. It gives off the impression that he isn't actually a part of the town, and this makes sense for scum play. I don't have much else to say that wasn't already covered by Bard.
...fuck, in all honesty, even though I don't think Dormio is scummier than Hero, I can't really think of a major reason to lynch Hero over Dormio that isn't most likely rooted in sheer tunneling. The only "real" thing I have is that I think Dormio's cases are more logical, but that seems like it could be attributed to gaps in playstyle. I'm fine lynching either at this point.
My earlier stances had Pesco and JOB as my secondary suspects, so I suppose I should talk about them. Pesco is trying, and I really do think that scum was most likely trying to take advantage of Pesco/Shadoweh, which implies town!Pesco. Not placing him as a high priority right now. I hate the way JOB handled Pesco vs Shadoweh but I don't see the weasel-y scum intent in him that I see in Hero and Dormio, because JOB at least seems to want to be involved in the game. There's also Serela. I'm not really feeling the case on him, but I find his posts unsettling on gut and could probably be convinced to go for him if somebody posted a good Serela case that didn't look like it was intended to convince Serela himself instead of the rest of the town.
PX is a town read for me, I've already said this. Bard too, I think I already implied that as well (though the fact that he lampshaded himself still being alive doesn't settle well with me). BT has recently read more like a townie who needs to have more self-confidence, but is the weakest of my town reads, so I guess I could maybe be convinced to put him into the neutral bin.
tl;dr
Would lynch: Hero, Dormio
Could be convinced to lynch: JOB, Pesco, Serela
Will not lynch: PX, Bardiche, BT
JOB is sheep too, but he isn't as blatantly bad in that he could decide to make a vote without being told to.
Given that he seemed to vote on D2 just so that I wouldn't attack him for not voting, I'm not entirely sure if this is true. <_<
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JOB sheepvoted D1 and D2. BT sheepvoted D1, D2, D3. Which one is worse?
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If you phrase it like that, then yeah obviously BT is going to look bad, but I still think that JOB is worse because he sheepvoted twice on D2 while waffling over what could have been a critical moment with little explanation.
Regardless of that, I will say that I find it curious that on D2, BT thought that the PX lynch was not ideal and perhaps even a waste of time if it looked like there were better options. Why does he think that the PX lynch is ideal today?
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Hey, Bard.
How have you come to the conclusion that there is no way I can be scum?
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Okay so I'm ready to read more mafia again
But I'm not really sure what else I have to say. :c
I think I got asked questions at some point. /finds
Hey Serela, why is JOB town?
eh puts effort and doesn't afraid of pesco
But yeah, considering it's JOB, I thought he's been doing pretty great so far. I'm not expecting him to be the next Kilga or anything. And I don't really see any kind of scumminess from him.
The thing that started bothering me though is the sudden assault on Dormio, which I am seeing as OMGUS. Dormio has done nothing exceptionally wrong and Serela tries accusing him with "everything he can" (that's what I'm getting out of his posts), and so suddenly. And, you betcha, this started immediately after Dormio's vote on him. I see this as bad playing, but not necessarily scummy behavior.
He was sorta neutralish before that, but honestly I hadn't even -read- his stuff before that much (Which as people have said, is lackluster, and yes I've reread it by now) so. And then he did that, so he went from, as I said before; "IDK Read but Process of Elimination says scum" to "Scummish read and process of elimination agrees".
There is a different between "Case I don't agree with" and "Case made of bullshit". A case made of bullshit is scummy because if you're town, then you should geniunely believe your target is scum, and as such you should have/be able to find some kind of decent evidence as to WHY. If your evidence is bullshit then something is wrong, and the wrong is quite possibly that you aren't actually town.
Anyway I'm pretty sure Dormio is scum and I think PX is too. If PX isn't it then my next guess would definitely be Hero. I'm honestly fine with lynching any of these three, although PX practically needs to be policy lynched as well, so I suppose I'd put him first.
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Dormio (0):
huh what (1): Hero999
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (2): Dormio, PX
PX (3): Serela, JOB, BT
Hero999 (1): huh what
JOB (0):
Not Voting: Bardiche
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. D3 ends in ~25 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=16&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
PX is at L-2
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Policy lynches don't lynch scum, they lynch bad players.
PX lynch looks like a repeat of the Dan lynch from D1. Just about everybody thinks that a certain player has been derping up pretty badly, so they decide to agree that he's scum on the side and have an easy place to leave their vote instead of putting out effort into looking for the real scum (who escape being voted because one player is so polarizing). I dislike it, and it doesn't help that I already think that PX is town for reasons unrelated to the way his wagon is evolving.
Seriously, it would be pretty fucking awesome if there was finally a death that wasn't one of my town reads.
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PX hasn't done anything at all. He is coasting through the game while providing 0 content. How is that not scummy?
I myself actually thought Dan was town. I think PX is either scum or useless (leaning on the first option).
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I disagree that PX is coasting. He has been considered a target on every single day so far. In general, if people start looking too much at scum trying to coast then said scum will feel motivated to step their game and activity up.
Hero and Dormio have had comparable amounts of content to PX and what they actually have posted is scummier than PX's content. Hero's is something I've covered like a million times by now. Dormio is scummy because he's treating mafia like a chore rather than a game. He enters the thread to post attacks on the same select few people and then leaves until he can do the same thing again. He doesn't really interact with others or try to help town decide on a lynch or anything. There's no town intent in what he posts. PX is at least somewhat engaging and speaks up about his stances on more than two players at a time.
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@Pesco: Why exactly is BT worse than PX? I think BT's at least trying.
@Huh What: ;_; I disagree. PX has been useless the entire game and rather than step it up, he's done none of the sort. He's been getting away with lurking away since Day goddamn One, and he hasn't improved on that since then, practically ignoring anyone making cases on him... and his most insightful post has been this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732417.html#msg732417), which is in Day 3 and rather late to be providing anything of use. Suggesting we policy lynch JOB is a terrible idea because we need to eliminate scum, and if we eliminate scum then we don't need to worry about JOB reaching LYLO.
His ONLY scum read is Serela. Let that sink in. Serela's the only guy he puts as scum. I think you can do much better than that. The only reason my vote isn't on him yet is the dread L-1 and someone herpderp quicklynching him stupidly.
I don't buy the Serela cases so far because they seem rather weak, and the only thing I can really hold against Serela is that he's been useless, but at the very least he's been there, posting and doing what looks like trying. I detect no such thing from PX, who is actually skillfully lurking and avoiding ever having to push anything.
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@Bard: Can you please answer my question?
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This thread needs more activity, it's been more than 6 hours (if I counted correctly) since my last post.
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@Bard: Supersheep. I'm sure you understood what I was doing when I said I wouldn't post until everyone else had made content today. It's not a subtle play and I think everyone else at least figured out that they have to get off their bums and show strong stances. I don't see how it's a misrep for me to say that BT wasn't going to show commitment if I was silent the entire day. What's been posted doesn't change:
In fact, you're the one who promped me to vote, here:
I still don't like BT for not making a vote yet.
I voice suspicion of BT for not voting, immediate compliance from him. I'm calling bullshit that he needed a prod to take action.
Line by line analysis:
I voiced who I thought was a suspect, without deciding on which one I wanted to vote.
We call this cheerleading a wagon.
I was not certain who I'd be voting for then, so this couldn't have happened way earlier.
Zero suspects that you're willing to take a solid stance on. Bard, note here that he has NO scum reads and PX has at least one.
Not casting a vote at all would be worse, so I voted the moment I was more sure of my choice.
This is pretty juicy. The choice that BT became sure of was PX. Last big post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732700.html#msg732700) with opinions, has just one line about PX and a lot more on Dormio, Hero and NeoSerela. Repeat it out loud for yourself, how the heck did BT become sure of scumPX from nothing? "Oh but reads changed when people posted"...bullshit because you keep saying you're waiting for people to post more while you don't pose them any questions to respond to. You're happy to let PX trip himself up answering other people so that you can sheepvote him when the wagon gets big i.e. when I put him to L-2 and it started looking like his wagon was the sure lynch for the day.
I wanted to do a bigger reread once more posts show up. If it's urgent, I can do one now.
@BT: I just looked over that part, and I feel like your trying to say that you want them to do something wrong.
This is what makes Hero town.
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I don't see how that makes Hero town, but I see how it makes BT scum.
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I'm calling bullshit that he needed a prod to take action.
Wrong, but I see you're not going to change your mind about this anyway.
We call this cheerleading a wagon.
I wasn't sure about my suspect, so I was cheerleading. In that case, was Bard cheerleading when he named PX and Dormio but not one of them?
Zero suspects that you're willing to take a solid stance on. Bard, note here that he has NO scum reads and PX has at least one.
If I wanted a quick read that would cast suspicion on me, I would have at least one as well. The difference is that I'm thinking like a townie here, while he is not.
This is pretty juicy. The choice that BT became sure of was PX. Last big post with opinions, has just one line about PX and a lot more on Dormio, Hero and NeoSerela. Repeat it out loud for yourself, how the heck did BT become sure of scumPX from nothing? "Oh but reads changed when people posted"...bullshit because you keep saying you're waiting for people to post more while you don't pose them any questions to respond to. You're happy to let PX trip himself up answering other people so that you can sheepvote him when the wagon gets big i.e. when I put him to L-2 and it started looking like his wagon was the sure lynch for the day.
Finally a valid point.
At the time, I didn't have a clear stance about PX. He was posting too little so I found it hard to actually do something with him. Hero, on the other hand, I was annoyed with the little posts he actually had. By the time D2 was over, my opinion on PX was solidifying and Hero has been acting... weird, still, but less weird than I remembered. This is why I was completely fine with a unison PX wagon at the end there, willing to stay up for it if need be. By the time I posted my vote, my opinion had changed. Yes, it changed, I don't have much to do about that, do I? I could make the same fuss about you being almost silent about PX the whole game, going instead for Dan, Shadoweh and myself, then suddenly voting for him and putting him at L-2.
I honestly don't see anything special about these accusations. They're not definitively scummy, and they're not very stable either. I really do see this as more of a "fling everything we have" case than anything else.
This is what makes Hero town.
I would like an explanation to this.
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cast suspicion on --> remove suspicion on
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I really do see this as more of a "fling everything we have" case than anything else.
Really? I think Pesco is making good points as to why you're scum. It's almost like you're trying to fling everything back at him instead.
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BT: Why are you able to defend yourself against Pesco right now, but not able to answer my question (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732976.html#msg732976)?
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##Unvote
##Vote BT
Forgot this.
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Why does he think that the PX lynch is ideal today?
Is there anything I need to answer here aside from 'why I think he's scum'? Since I already answered that, and the 'ideal' lynch for a certain day is lynching the guy who's most scummy, so I don't get what you're asking.
Do you believe me to be scummier than Hero (or Pesco, who you are currently agreeing with), despite my 'defense'?
Also, JOB, do you believe I'm doing this because I'm trying to get Pesco lynched? Since, if I was going for that, I would have voted him already.
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@BT: No, I think your doing to defend yourself. It still doesn't look good though.
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Is there anything I need to answer here aside from 'why I think he's scum'? Since I already answered that, and the 'ideal' lynch for a certain day is lynching the guy who's most scummy, so I don't get what you're asking.
Your posts haven't made you seem very confident in PX being scum. Given that you thought lynching him could have been a total waste of time yesterday, this is a really awkward swing in opinions IMO, especially given the wagon on PX. Explain your thought process on why PX is suddenly the most scummy player as opposed to being a crapshoot as a lynch target, please.
Will address the question later.
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@Bardiche: Okay I assume you're referring to the words in #677.
Let's start with Dormio and his very first post in the game (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727406.html#msg727406), which is cheerleading a wagon on Shadoweh by pointing out WIFOM, but then jumping on BT for utterly camp reasons. One has to wonder about priorities (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727417.html#msg727417), as he continues cheerleading the Shadoweh case by accusing her of active lurking while sticking to a BT case, which is reasonably weaker. BT is a new player, I can't imagine Shadoweh active lurking is a weaker charge than BT not making sense yet.
At the time I felt like prodding BT more. Meh.
To point out: defending another player is BAD, but it's not a scumtell by itself. Only once the other player flips, and even then it's circumstantial, where active lurking is scummy any way you slice it. His jump off of BT is sudden and hardly explained (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727808.html#msg727808), other than that Dan is suddenly worse. He comments that Dan doesn't have cases except PX for ED1 stuff, and that Dan doesn't have comments about the rest of the game.
I was reconsidering my thoughts about BT at that point, though I still disliked Shadoweh somewhat. Disliked Dan. And?
Up to this point, Dormio has had a case on BT for early day 1 stuff and hasn't commented on anything not Shadoweh or BT. Hypocrisy isn't scummy, but it is when you pretend that the same traits in other people is scummy. I'll note the excusing for activity because this shit was done last game by Dan himself, until we lynched his red-coloured arse.
Meh. I think it was somewhat different but whatever.
He explains his case later (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728021.html#msg728021), but calls it a reiteration: as if he had to restate a case. Look at the previous post. Is there really a case? His case comes down to "Dan has too many Town reads", and repeats a request for more about the rest of the game. Dormio has still not commented on the rest of the game, focusing solely on Dan without ever going back to how Shadoweh or BT are scum. Or anyone. He's slamming Dan for town reads but doesn't seem to dispute whether the person in question is Town or not, and the add-on from post #150 onwards is just "Dan is defending himself", which again is not a trait that alone defines scumminess.
Perhaps I should have worded it as "clarified". Whatever. I had changed my read of BT at this point. And didn't really know how to make out what I thought about Shadoweh.
The case up to this point is Utter Shit. His excuse for not commenting on the rest of the game himself is anyone not mentioned is town or neutral (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728146.html#msg728146), and everyone is neutral to him. Way to dodge responsibility. His case on Dan becomes further shit when he clears Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728147.html#msg728147) without any explanation to it himself, and minor suspicion on BT which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Up to here, Dan is scum, Shadoweh is Town, BT is "a thing" and everyone else is neutral.
Eh, neutral was basically what I was calling town. Townish being below neutral. Terrible system, yes, but oh well. That's all I can really say about that.
Don't scumhunt now, you might tire yourself out. His "a thing" of BT is based on Early Day Content, which he still holds against Dan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728153.html#msg728153) alongside not commenting on the rest of the game, where his comment was a blanket "everyone's neutral".
I will agree that it was a blanket statement, but I really didn't see anything interesting about everyone else.
He later contradicts his own case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728787.html#msg728787) by saying he doesn't care about who Dan thinks are Town. Even though he voted Dan for clearing people as Town! Dan doing "anything" to save himself isn't really Scum, you know. Town also want to survive, unless you're Pesco and have to suffer Serela clearing JOB as useful content.
I meant that as in Dan was giving us town reads, but no scum reads basically.
NOW THEN, on to Day2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729678.html#msg729678), where Dormio just succesfully lynched Dan based on who Dan cleared as Town and that Dan defended himself too much. This is fucking circumstantial and terrible, in my opinion, but alright. Vote goes to Shadoweh after she was his only Town read the other day! The case isn't that bad, but it's stuff that happened Day 1, and I ill see how that reads as Town one Day and as SUPER SCUM PRIORITY #1 the other Day, and no, he hasn't mentioned anyone outside of Dan/BT/Shadoweh as possible scum yet.
All I can say is that Shadoweh looked scummy to me at this point.
He later finally materialises something and that something is that there is one scum and three weird (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730405.html#msg730405), where Huh What is mysteriously mentioned but later not touched on. Pesco also mentioned. These are people others were voicing suspicion of. BT is still there, and he claims that's because BT's list tells us nothing. Whereas Dormio's tells us more amiright. After blanket clearing everyone as "neutral" earlier on, I find this objectionable content from Dormio.
I had a few qualms with how Pesco was attacking Shadoweh, but then I though Shadoweh was scum. Meh.
He then moves on to respond to BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg731001.html#msg731001), and we still don't know why Huh What and Pesco are "weird" for him! And then on to D3. Wow, this is going fast. Ninja vote on Serela out of nowhere (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732331.html#msg732331) based on content from the previous Day, which he made no mention of at all the previous day!
huh what because gut. Pesco because of self voting weird stuff.
And that's it. No really, that's it. Dormio hasn't done anything else the entire game and has never actively tried to scumhunt besides latching onto the popular Shadoweh case with a good enough case but yeah, that's it. He's mentioned BT, Shadoweh and Dan as scum suspects, one of which went from Scum to Town to Scum, and now suddenly votes Serela out of nowhere, ignoring his suspicions of Pesco and Huh What the previous day. Or his suspicion of BT.
I don't think I really "latched onto" the Shadoweh wagon. Whatever.
Don't particularly like BT getting lynched.
##FoS PX
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Will address the question later.
No, you won't. You voted me over Hero. Either you think I'm worse, which you need to explain now, or it's completely unjustified.
As for your question:
In this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg729983.html#msg729983), I say how I'm lacking info from PX in order to stabilize my read on him, while presenting enough weird behavior from Hero to warrant a vote. To understand what happened between then and now, let's look at their posts. Starting from Hero's:
Some more random posts that don't (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730381.html#msg730381) achieve (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730384.html#msg730384) much (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730482.html#msg730482). Standard fare.
A (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730564.html#msg730564) case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730567.html#msg730567) on Serela. I said earlier how this seems kind of bad, and to explain this: the accusations are overall random, he doesn't comment on these things earlier but saves it for one big 'everything I can find on you' post (a lot of these posts being from D1), and all this as a combination seems like he was looking for accusations.
Some actual thoughts here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730987.html#msg730987).
Then there's this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg731228.html#msg731228), which I have already commented on. In hindsight, saying he didn't say anything earlier is false according to the former link, but I read it as more of a "I'd lynch Shadoweh over Pesco" post rather than a refusal to lynch either of them. I'm still not happy about that random lynch request, which is a terrible idea. If he cared more, he would have backed up the "we want a big PX wagon instead" posts that were going on 5? hours before deadline. This is, of course, assuming he thought PX was worse than Shadoweh, which I can't really tell based on his posts.
Of course, I wouldn't have been as angry about it if not for this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg731308.html#msg731308) post, in which he displays how unhappy he is with Shadoweh, still without voting. I would have expected a hammer there, but... did you really stay with your town Shadoweh read after that post, and after stating how you'd remove your former statement? All in all, weird.
D3 begins with these two (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732183.html#msg732183) posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732315.html#msg732315). The usual questions with no content, but he DOES raise some town concerns.
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732327.html#msg732327) case, I do not agree with. A lot of the accusations were bad, and I still read this as a sort of OMGUS for HW's votes. This is after he shifted his vote from HW, to Serela, and how to HW while stating how Serela is acting weird without voting him, since for whatever reason HW suddenly became worse again.
More questions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732466.html#msg732466). Some more useless posts follow, which I get ok-ish vibes from. (got tired of linking every single post...)
And then we have PX's post, starting with this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730018.html#msg730018) one that gets cut by mine. He expresses displeasure from Serela following by a vote, saying he'll explain later. Seems like a "hold on, I can actually do contributing but not now, later". And, indeed, later comes a Serela case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730200.html#msg730200) with an overview of everything attached. The case is ok, but I don't like how he leaves room to jump on the Shadoweh wagon in the future.
A whole bunch of posts defending against JOB which I am NOT going to link. Some are legit but some are just odd. I'm seeing some of this as unneeded precautions.
He shows his activity (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730921.html#msg730921) without actually saying/updating anything despite the Pesco/Shadoweh thing. Help?
And here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730946.html#msg730946) is the expected Shadoweh vote. He had not updated his thoughts at ALL from that post, which was a while earlier. He said in that post that Pesco was "town scum but green" without explaining and without updating his opinion. Overall looks like "ok, I said stuff about Shadoweh before so now I'm just going to lynch here, I hope no one minds and oh yeah I'm maybe going to explain later maybe not".
And where's the explanation? It doesn't come. Instead we have here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg731159.html#msg731159) a post in which he mistakes my sarcasm for an accusation and immediately defends himself. Honestly, I think even Pesco saw the sarcasm and replied assuming it wasn't. I see this as another case of too much defense.
And that's it. Nothing more from D2. He was showing activity despite not presenting enough clarification/reiteration to his (very little) points and while not responding to the many accusations on him despite those of JOB, which were very easy to defend against. I was really, really not satisfied with this. Then comes D3:
A return (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732417.html#msg732417) to the Serela case, in which he presents a lot of coincidental accusations (being on the wrong wagons, not being connected to the NKs) among other shaky accusations. Is this honestly the worst scum you could have found? What about explaining your read about everyone else? You'd put Dormio as "town leaning neutral still..." without explaining why, and giving Hero the benefit of the doubt similarly to what Hero did with Shadoweh... yeah, seriously? Oh, and a request to policy lynch JOB. Don't get me started on how much this annoyed me. And that's his only post up to now, too. All the others were this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732490.html#msg732490) and that (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732850.html#msg732850), which show signs of activity and nothing else. He also still doesn't respond to anyone's accusations (but JOB's ?).
tl;dr
I don't like either of them. They both have weird votes and weird cases, along with behavior I don't see as town behavior. What's the difference, then? Hero actually posts more. He questions plenty of players, potentially putting him at risk. This is not something I'm seeing from PX. Most of his replies have been to people like JOB, when there are obviously other people who are addressing him more than JOB. I also see signs of over-defensiveness. He lurks, looks for easy replies and easy cases, and to top it all off he's being defensive. Hero is slightly more daring, like he has less to lose, and this is the difference I'm seeing.
My opinion on Hero didn't change overall from my vote on him on D2. My opinion on PX, though, did. I saw him as neutral-maybe-scum, but now I see him as scum. This warranted the change in opinion and vote. Is this to your satisfaction?
Cut by a big Dormio post.
-
Good morning, and sh'yeah no, ##Vote: PX, we are not lynching BT today.
Look at Dormio's retort to the case on him. "Whatever". What are you, Squall? BT does a much better job, and I don't really feel like he's at all scum.
I'll grant that between Hero and PX, there is not a great distinction to be made, but in this case, I'm going with GUT!, and stubborn tenacity. I've wanted PX's lynch since D1. He has made no attempts that I can see to dispel this desire from me, indeed, to even come close to expunging my idea that he is scum to the rotten core that deserves to be tossed off a twelve-story building. Twice, now, have we come close to lynching him, and twice has he escaped the lynch. Is it not time we lynch the goddamn scum in front of us? If you were almost lynched twice, would you still be as impassive as PX? Would you still persist in lurking like shit?
I suppose so, because we've been rewarding him thus far. No. We are not lynching BT.
-
@Bard: Can you please answer my question?
-
I thought my ignoring your question would set off some kind of alarm bell that maybe I had a reason for that, but since you insist. Here you go: your floundering and helpless piggying around doesn't impress upon me in the slightest that you've even a sliver of scum in you. Put plainly, you strike me as too stupid and uncoordinated to be scum this game.
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...Wait wait wait...BT, one of the points your attacking me with is the fact that I expressed suspicions on shadoweh JUST before JOB hammered it?
sigh...lemme go read PX now. Every time I tried I get side tracked by something else/.
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I thought my ignoring your question would set off some kind of alarm bell that maybe I had a reason for that, but since you insist. Here you go: your floundering and helpless piggying around doesn't impress upon me in the slightest that you've even a sliver of scum in you. Put plainly, you strike me as too stupid and uncoordinated to be scum this game.
I could guess you had a reason for not answering that but I still wanted to know why.
Lol, I don't even think I'm that stupid and uncoordinated in this game at all.
-
The JOB hammer is completely unrelated. Basically, you said you didn't want to lynch any of them (and with bad timing too), then you showed how you didn't like Shadoweh without actually doing anything else. You even said you were retracting what you said about giving Shadoweh a chance, and this made me expect a hammer, which you did not deliver. It's like you sided with the lynch without actually voting in it.
-
I could guess you had a reason for not answering that but I still wanted to know why.
Lol, I don't even think I'm that stupid and uncoordinated in this game at all.
Are you saying I'm wrong and you're really scum? :derp:
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@BT: You fail to consider that there was an hour or two left in the day, I had that suspicion stated because I wanted shadoweh to clarify, you turning it into a point against me, is unreasonable.
-
Are you saying I'm wrong and you're really scum? :derp:
Yes.
No, I just don't think that I've personally been that stupid and uncoordinated this game.
I actually think I've improved quite a lot recently.
-
Still not really anything to say but I guess I'll throw out to Huhwhat because of her town read of PX;
Notice how he seems to make one case, then do absolutely nothing for the entire rest of the day? He's done this, like, every single day so far. Okay on D1 he made -two- cases and then did absolutely nothing. But still. After those he just seems to make one-liner posts that are usually defending himself.
Yeah this is one of the reasons I'd lynch PX first. At least my other two choices say stuff sometimes.
-
EWBOP:This is also the reason I said that he practically also deserves a policy lynch at the same time. He needs to be lynched for being scum and policy lynched for being massive unexistance.
-
Alright, I ISO PX, and I really...well...
Other the lack of content, I find his reactions at certain points in the game to be town-related, so I cannot say I agree with his lynch.
I really do not see the scummy content Bardiche is saying from just a ISO.
However, one thing I'd like to note is that he seems to be avoiding Dormio, not sure if it is his Bias or something else.
On another note, looking at Bardiche's post 740 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg733315.html#msg733315) seems...abuse of mob mentality?
It feels like hes using AtE, since most of us are suspicious of each other, and that hes trying to unite us to bring down an easy target.
Not sure if this is just me being paranoid.
-
Dormio (0):
huh what (1): Hero999
BT (2): Pesco, huh what
Bardiche (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (2): Dormio, PX
PX (4): Serela, JOB, BT, Bardiche
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting:
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. D3 ends in ~6 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=16&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
PX is at L-1
-
You're right, Hero, I'm trying to unite you all to bring down an easy target. Easy because he's fucking scum. I just don't detect any of this Town spirit and I will restate the case on PX before deadline, and you will all see the goddamn light.
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How about I hammer PX now?
I don't have a case on him. We just want a lynch.
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Yeah I'm fine with that, Pesco. I don't really think anything else needs to be said, partially because nothing else has really been getting said recently in the first place.
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tl;dr PX is scum for doing some scummy shit. Bounds into D1 with blatant hypocrisy and almost no presence, jumps onto popular wagons, doesn't bother scumhunting outside of whatever Town is mulling over, making ED1 cases during Late Day 1, jumping around cases with no rhyme nor reason, ignoring of all comments vis-a-vis him except the ones he can easily counter (and subsequently doesn't beyond asking why he's scum!), and things he votes people for also apply to himself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730018.html#msg730018).
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Also claiming scum and wanting to self-hammer as Town. Town should never self-hammer and even thinking it is scummy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg730203.html#msg730203). Fuck, he's claimed scum.
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Responses to Shadoweh don't mean anything because sarcasm on the internets. Why do you think I tell her to stop doing that.
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Well, okay, to his credit the question asked is really stupid, but the proper response is always "Why the fuck would I self-hammer?" if you're Town.
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I prefer a response of "Shadoweh stop asking crap and scumhunt" :V
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Well, that's what we told her, but it turned out she was Town asking crap and not scumhunting. Which is why this game would be infinitely easier if everyone'd stop being scum and the real scum'd stand up.
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/me stands up and walks away
Cutting PX with another post :V
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D: I'm back, but let me post people!
GOD LET ME POST.
It seems like it's me vs BT :| Guess I should finally read BT.
Reading through his ISO, I immediately see stuff I don't like. Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727764.html#msg727764), he goes follows the group and votes for ActionDan for what everyone else said, and then says he thinks Schezo is scum. Then cheerleads the Schezo wagon to avoid "pushing for majority." Then he suddenly takes back everything he says on ActionDan and jumps on the Schezo bandwagon anyways. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727839.html#msg727839) Then here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728701.html#msg728701), "Everybody thinks Schezo is town, so will I! ActionDan is my vote, but I'm not going to vote him because I'll be put on the spotlight." All of a sudden, he goes "but I'm really voting PX" here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg728818.html#msg728818). Holy crap man, MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
Yes, there's an hour left. So if someone else wants to vote PX, and PX doesn't respond yet, I have no problem letting him end it instead. In fact, it's preferred, for obvious reasons.
So, you want me to die, but you don't want to get your hands dirty on it?! SCUM!!!!!!!!!!
Despite this, I tried making an opinion, and this ended up being, consequentially, mostly based on others' posts.
Maybe a little explanation on my play-style so far is in order. At first I was wary of Schezo and ActionDan, because that seemed to be the consensus (yes, I know how terrible this is, no need to say anything).
Da fuck? You claim that you're sheeping. Then you claim you're scum? Considering you posted this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg731140.html#msg731140).
About Pesco vs Shadoweh? If you hadn't noticed, my 'big wall of text' basically convicted Pesco without actually convicting him, mostly because I was sure a lynch on him would be nigh impossible and that I'd get even more shit for it, and that I possibly had worse reads. Oh, and was also afraid of getting accused of OMGUS. HW's case just proves me wrong, though.
##Unvote
##Vote Pesco
So you just try to avoid the spotlight and follow the leaders? SCUM BEHAVIOR!!!!!!!!!!
Look here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732113.html#msg732113). Looking through all your posts, this now reads like you trying to get everyone else to post before you can continue to FOLLOW THE LEADER!!!!!!
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732700.html#msg732700) your opinions are pretty much copy paste, not to mention the first time you made a solid stance on me AND A CASE.
tl;dr
NOT ME OVER ME
##Unvote
##Vote: BT
AND FUXDAMMIT YOU TWO STOP CUTTING ME SDFHIL:SDF
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So you "finally read BT" on D3? I'd call you a huge slacker, but considering you've already made up time to read other people (you had your vote on a certain someone before you changed it), I'm not buying it.
Town behavior isn't mustering a last minute case against "second place lynch target", especially if you had a scumpick beforehand and mysteriously forgot about it. I rest my case.
I'm ok with ending the day at this point. My opinion just got reinforced.
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Dormio (0):
huh what (1): Hero999
BT (3): Pesco, huh what, PX
Bardiche (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (1): Dormio
PX (4): Serela, JOB, BT, Bardiche
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting:
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. D3 ends in ~5 hours (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=16&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=00&p0=398)).
PX is at L-1
BT is at L-2
-
Screw you all. The day will be starting at a more suitable time for me.
I'll just pretend that we're getting BT's flip and be satisfied with that.
##Unvote
##Vote PX
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Dormio (0):
huh what (1): Hero999
BT (2): huh what, PX
Bardiche (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (1): Dormio
PX (5): Serela, JOB, BT, Bardiche, Pesco
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting:
PX was lynched. He was a Mafia Goon
Night actions are due 24 hours from now.
-
Overnight Pesco died. He was a Vanilla Townie. It is now D4.
Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Serela (0):
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting: Serela, JOB, BT, Bardiche, Dormio, huh what, Hero999
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is October 20th at 5PM EDT (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=20&year=2011&hour=15&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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Shit I was about to post at the end of D3 before jerk Pesco decided to hammer right when I finished writing it:
Hero and Dormio lynches obviously weren't happening because people hate my logic so I switched to BT because recent interactions with Pesco have made me think that he's the best next target. Did so without explanation because I wanted to see his reaction given that he has been trying a lot harder when talking to people who are attacking him. I took another look through BT's posts after Pesco responded to me about JOB and most of his effort seems to be put into defending himself rather than toward hunting scum. This isn't the "cornered townie has to defend themself a lot due to pressure" kind of overdefensive, it's scummy because he's not actively playing the game and voting for scum until other players start attacking him. I'd argue that some of his defense even comes off as an overreaction, I'm pretty sure my question toward him didn't warrant a huge WoT. It should be noted that said WoT didn't actually answer how his thought process changed from lynching PX is a crapshoot -> one sentence during early D3 -> PX IS THE SCUMMIEST, LYNCH NOW. The evolution of BT's PX stance looks like a scummy attempt to sneak on a wagon without actually having any consistency throughout his play.
Ultimately I'd say Hero and Dormio are still worse, but I can actually see the case on BT after re-reading him and I'm willing to push for his lynch. I still think PX is town and do not want him lynched. Serela case isn't really convincing to me even though his posts irk me on gut.
None of that matters now but should explain why I did what I did. Even though I was wrong. :l
Pesco and Bard are obvtown now. One of them probably died overnight, I don't know, I'm writing this at the start of N3. JOB looks fine too due to his staunch refusal to go after anything aside from the PX case. Serela probably wasn't bussing because he was the initial push on PX during D3 and scum probably knew the PX wagon was very likely to take off. There would have been enough mislynches for scum!Serela that I don't think he would have needed the bus if he could find a good reason to not start the D3 PX wagon. He was also one of the main components of the PX wagon on D1, so without him, PX would have definitely survived that day. Actually, I realllly don't think that PX was bussed, so I'm not particularly interested in attacking his wagon today. If anybody was bussing, though, then it was probably BT since his stance on PX was inconsistent as fuck... but he was also a counterwagon, so unless PX's post before deadline was last minute distancing, that leaves me, Hero and Dormio. <_<
##Vote Dormio
He completely ignored PX on D3 even though PX's wagon was huge throughout the day, which I think is actually worse than me and Hero openly defending PX.
In fact, given what he said on D1, PX has been in his neutral pile the entire game. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.180.html) This is the easiest way for scum to avoid attention following a scumflip, because there are no ties to analyze at all. This is scummier than any of the actual "connections" to PX.
Regardless of him never actually saying anything about PX, throwing reads out of the window to vote Dan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727808.html#msg727808) looks like a sloppy chainsaw defense of PX in hindsight. I'm interpreting the way he way he dropped his reads without little explanation as being a side effect as scum rushing to lynch the easy target who was after their buddy.
Refer to this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732969.html#msg732969) for things I dislike about Dormio that aren't flip related.
Finally, PX's flip makes me strongly believe that the Serela wagon was a scum push. I don't think that both scum voting on it is too unlikely if they thought it could discredit Serela himself and have him take off as the counterwagon to PX.
Hero is still Hero, and at this point I can't tell if he's actually scummy or if I just have massive tunnel vision on him. I think his stance on PX looks more genuine than BT's because it's not ~INCONSISTENT AS FUCK~, so I'd actually lynch BT first. It doesn't help that BT should have hammered PX on D1 but didn't actually do so. Blargh.
-
Jesus fuck.
##Vote: Dormio, for all the reasons I stated yesterday.
-
Why I don't like a Dormio lynch:
Don't particularly like BT getting lynched.
PX wanted my wagon to out-vote his. We can only conclude that his partner would have to be in a desirable spot to "vote BT over PX". However, this puts him in a completely opposite spot. A scumpartner would want to leave me as a possible vote, especially after Pesco's case making my lynch even mildly possible. If Dormio were PX's partner, this would be illogical of him. With Hero, on the other hand, things fit;
Alright, I ISO PX, and I really...well...
Other the lack of content, I find his reactions at certain points in the game to be town-related, so I cannot say I agree with his lynch.
He doesn't express any opinion on me, while defending PX. If the need to vote for me showed up, he'd just have to say "yes I agree with Pesco's case and like I said earlier I don't agree with PX's lynch so *vote*".
Both Dormio and Hero have had weird non-town behavior, but this puts Hero in front for me.
In the same way I could accuse HW of turning me from 'town' to 'scum' after the Pesco case, voting me and expressing no will to lynch PX. HW has actually been acting mildly town-like, though, so I'd be less willing here.
##Vote Hero999
HW, does scum!BT make sense with PX's flip? Remember that I actually WAS going to hammer PX if nothing else happened, and I put myself in unneeded risk just to vote against him last day.
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Dormio might as well have been bussing his buddy, BT. The argument doesn't hold.
-
Ack, didn't know what made me skip through that possibility.
My vote holds, though. I still have plenty of reasons to think that both of them are scum, so either one is acceptable for the time being.
-
Yeah ##Vote Dormio
We've got this in the bag.
-
I have no complaints at all about lynching dormio, as Huh what pointed out, they have been neutral to each other all game, with little to no connection with each other...
Wait what L-1 already?
-
Oh that's L-1.
But honestly I don't care. He's scum and I can't even humor the possibility of it being anyone else without anything short of mod confirmation.
And it's not like he's going to hammer himself anyway, unless he's scum completely giving up.
-
...
Bah
...Sigh...
##Vote Dormio
-
##Vote Dormio
-
OH MY GOD YOU FUCKERS.
LET ME POST YOU BASTARDS.
YOU.
BASTARDS.
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Dormio has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie.
Dormio (4): huh what, Bardiche, Serela, Hero999
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Serela (0):
Hero999 (1): BT
JOB (0):
Not Voting: JOB, Dormio
It is now N4. Night actions are due in 24 hours.
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Overnight BT died. He was a Vanilla Townie.
huh what (0):
Bardiche (0):
Serela (0):
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting: JOB, huh what, Bardiche, Serela, Hero999
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is October 20th at 6 PM EDT (watch countdown (http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=10&day=20&year=2011&hour=16&min=00&sec=00&p0=398))
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DID YOU GUYS SAY QUICK-LYNCH? Because I think we did quick-lynch. And uh, quick-NK. Jesus fuck.
Okay, Hero, what the shit was up with the quicklynch? ?,?
Also clearly JOB is scum for lurking through all of Day 4 etc.
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ALSO FGDSFGR would probably be okay with lynching the shit out of Hero but Dormio NOT being scum means I need to update my reads on everyone.
HOLD YOUR QUICKLYNCHING HORSES.
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AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAAAAA fuck he was town
...welp
uh well ##Vote Hero999
I better start looking over my town reads again, though.
Sort of surprised BT died when he was a very potential lynch, when... everyone else other then Hero is much less likely? That's just weird. Another reason to look over the people I thought was town.
Actually I'm not sure about my Hero vote at all anymore. ##Unvote Hero
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what the fuck
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Isn't JOB basically confirmed town due to online times? <_<
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...is it bad that I want to automatically clear JOB and Huhwhat because they just plain weren't here or on irc during the THREE MINUTES of night?
Well I guess since HW is here right away and I know has messengers it could have been done over those. So scratch that. But JOB is pretty much confirmed town.
I mean I know this might be considered bad play, but now that I looked it up it's sort of impossible for me to un-know it. It's like Nobu accidently googling the Werewolf mafia setup :V
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I don't have K4U added on any messengers. :/
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Stop encouraging me doing something that's sort of cheating ;_;
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Yeah, he is. Unless Scum!JOB sent in the NK ahead of time. ... which would be really fucking stupid. Then again, why the fuck kill BT? BT. But yeah I doubt JOB would get the idea to send in an NK in before even 24 hours into the Day, which means scum was active.
So we can all LOLLYGAG and lynch the shit out of Hero today, and god knows he's deserved it at least for the quicklynch shit... or we take our time, review options on who are scum. So that even if Hero isn't scum we don't blindly wander into LYLO with only people who we thought were Town.
EDIT: Serela. JOB wasn't here, but I don't consider Huh What cleared by virtue of NOT ON IRC.
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EDIT: Serela. JOB wasn't here, but I don't consider Huh What cleared by virtue of NOT ON IRC.
I checked Huhwhat's login time too, which apparently happened right before he logged in again and posted
It's sort of hard to believe now, though.
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GUESS WHAT TIME IT IS?
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lok8i1zoQd1qaiq8fo1_500.jpg)
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Online times say that JOB wasn't even online after the day started.
Serela, it's not cheating if the mod made it possible.
Also, I just happened to refresh shortly after the night ended. I'm not sure what really happened.
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I think Bardiche is the scum.
##Vote Bardiche
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Yeah I'm fine with lynching Hero today though. The only reason I'd have to not vote him is "Hero/PX scumteam? Really?", which would be trying to outguess the mod which is dumb.
Kneejerk reaction if it isn't Hero would be Bard because A.Process of Elimination and bias in favor for Huhwhat for technically not being logged on during the 10 minutes between end of d4 and start of d5 and B.Why the FUCK was he not NK'd when he was like considered town by all.
...honestly I can't see myself lynching anyone other then those two on our last two days. Huhwhat's clear is less 100% concrete but still there, while JOB is obvtown and I think everyone is decided that I'm obvtown, so.
OH hey look it's huhwhat
I'm tempted to just vote bard
it's so tempting
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Well I just said the only lynches I can see myself going for on our last two lynches that we have is Hero and Bard. It doesn't really matter which order we go in I suppose, and... I mean really, PX/Hero scumteam?
##Vote Bardiche
It's terrible that suddenly my lynch choices are governed by mod-related things in a vanilla game, but it is what it is.
I sort of feel bad now.
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Bard is scummy because I'm a potential mislynch candidate if I'm not clear, and he is trying to stop me from being cleared.
Also, I don't really like his D4 Dormio vote in hindsight. Looks too set-up (in a "sort-of lined up lynches" way), he didn't give the impression that he reconsidered the game in light of PX's flip at all. Possibly because he knew PX was scum.
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Wait what.
Huh What, maybe because I thought Dormio was ALSO scum?
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ლ(?ロ?ლ) How can one go from the Townest to the Scummiest in two hours?
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...
Personally by my analysis, its Serela.
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You could have actually talked about how PX's flip had changed your thought process instead of just citing a case not founded in delicious scumflips. <_< No real opinions on anybody else is odd given that PX's flip altered the appearance of a lot of players. Looks like you got lazy and were hoping you could just pick off the set-up townies mislynches until you won off of cred from PX's flip.
Hero: Post your anal then?
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tbh more like 8 minutes
also I'm interested in hero's logic
I mean huhwhat's reasoning on why I'm obvtown seems pretty concrete
also the fact that Hero is -still- gunning for me makes me think he's serious and therefore town
gogo bardlynch
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This is thought while I was taking a shower, so I really don't remember it other then Bardiche being cleared due to Job town a....
On second thought maybe bardiche is scum.
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Scumserela doesn't make that much sense IMO because he could have chosen to keep quiet about me being cleared, giving him another mislynch target. It's not impossible, but if he is scum, then that was rather stupid of him.
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Oh wait, I have a bah post?
*Takes a deep breath*
Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Yes
Bard is scum.
I believe that everyone other then Bard is town now. Huhwhat/JOB from mod-related shenanigans and Hero from what I said like thirty seconds ago. And then huhwhatlogic that makes me town. Both what he said just now and that stuff on D4!
Let's make today even shorter then yesterday! :V
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.....Alright, FOR THE LULZ!
##Vote Bardiche
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Huhwhat/JOB from mod-related shenanigans
tbh I thought they were town in the first place but I could have considered HUhwhatscum after Dormio being town if it wasn't for the 3-minute night he wasn't present for
oh look it's a hammer
oh man :V:V:V:V
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this game, man
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Ah well, at least I had fun. Neither PX nor I thought we had a ghost of a chance of victory, so hey, we went for the lulz.
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Best hour and thirty minutes of mafia ever
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Bard, why did you kill BT? I probably would have lynched him over you. In fact, I think I probably wouldn't have suspected you without the clear bullshit.
But I sucked this game.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOl6asjq_7E
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Well, what a fine game. Guess we should introduce our third partner.....
*loud bang*
*confetti*
*trumpets*
<Keine-tan> You guys suck
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huh what (0):
Bardiche (3): huh what, Serela, Hero999
Serela (0):
Hero999 (0):
JOB (0):
Not Voting: JOB, Bardiche
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Bardiche was lynched. He was a Mafia Goon
Town Wins!
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PX and I gave up from the very start, we let Keine-tan decide all the NKs.
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PX and I gave up from the very start, we let Keine-tan decide all the NKs.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
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Keine's choices were actually pretty okay until BT.
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my bah post
bahahahahahahaha
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Then I guess Keine still has something against BT.
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Graveyard (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/Wa6xFyHFPkqu). Scum can post their QT if they want to. My own comments will come later.
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K4U
how do you feel about the last hour and thirty minutes of the game
aka everything after n4 ended
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I'm still not sure what happened.
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Bard always breadcrumbs his role (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg727261.html#msg727261). Always.
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Also, I had fun this game, despite the despair over six mislynches to win. To me, that's enough of a victory.
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We didn't have a chance at winning anyways. :|
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what the fuck.
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PX, you totally had a chance of winning. Mountainous is EXTREMELY hard for town to win. Again, town only has a 36% win percentage.
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I'd get on IRC and chat it up, but firewalls@_@/
so... I personally prefer Pesco/PX scum team.
Also this is the 2nd time Dormio got lynched... without being able to post.
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Troll scumteam is troll.
Also, D4 is the new D5.
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Omba NK makes sense too for HW scum as well.
After I spent like half the game talking about how much I disliked his play even though I thought he was obvtown? >: scum!HW would have obviously killed Bard. I didn't really consider Omba's case to be a threat as town, not sure why I would as scum.
Dormio was lynched a day too early.
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Dormio was lynched a day too early.
Do you mean realtime or gametime?
No, seriously. :ohdear:
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Omba actually looked at you though. Which is enough in my opinion for scum!HW to consider, since Omba was looking town for the most part.
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Because demands (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/XC4JZCTFidAFy). JOB, you probably don't want to read it because we're not speaking favourably of you there.
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PX and I gave up from the very start, we let Keine-tan decide all the NKs.
So this is why pesco died. because I could not. Think of him as town.
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Do you mean realtime or gametime?
No, seriously. :ohdear:
Game time. I'm meant to be lynched on D5, damn it.
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So this is why pesco died. because I could not. Think of him as town.
Yeah, Keine was unbudging, and we complied. As long as Keine dictated the NKs, it could in no way be optimal to either of us every night, so if anything it reduced the odds of NKs being linked to us. And as long as I played competently, removing competent players every night wouldn't be such a boon due to obvious "He's alive despite being pretty Town". And honestly I expected to be lynched sooner, I thought I was pretty scummy.
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...Pffffft ahhahahahhah!
Man, this game, this game this game this game.
Best days ever.
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Bard, I could only pick up weirdness the end of D1 plus most of D2. Otherwise... not so much :V.
I still don't know how I got lynched instead of PX day one. that was one of the worst wagons ever. I am so glad Job/Serela were off it though.
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Oh yeah, sorry about my terrible play. :(
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I can't believe I didn't notice Bard was scum while he was right there. ;_;
Poor Zakeri. No replacements this game! o/
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what in the world...?
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IRC Quick lynch modo.
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what in the world...?
Sorry bro.
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Sorry bro.
Don't apologize.
You are probably the second, if not most innocent in whatever the hell it is I'm accusing you all of.
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And you accuse us of?
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I haven't figured it out yet.
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At least you can rest happy that PX tried to channel you, and JOB channeled you by lurking through the last two Game Days.
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JOB Couldn't have been channeling me then. If he was, he would have been one of the quicklynches. :wat:
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Do not post for two game days. Win anyways. Sounds like you.
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JOB wasn't a survivor, though.
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I just got home and wat happen?
Hooray for town!
I wasn't actually around for this whole day. The day started at 6AM for me. And I actually did the math and found out I'm unavaliable on weekdays for around about 16 hours per day.
EDIT: Can everyone also give a quick review on my play this game. I felt I improved and I want to know what you guys thought.