Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: shinyjam on May 05, 2009, 04:22:05 AM
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*Please explain your reasoning instead of listing it out*
*We are trying to discover what's the character's preference instead of what she know/have*
Base on the canon 7 elements fire, water, wood, earth, metal, sun, and moon. Debate which girl belong in which element(s)!
Element Description
Element in this Wu Xing system DOES NOT conflict each other, instead work with each other in harmony to create this world.
Wood: The growing of the matter, or the matter's growing stage.
+Water engenders Wood
-Wood begets Fire
Metal: The decline of the matter, or the matter's decline stage.
+Metal controls wood
-Metal is controlled by fire
Fire: The prosper of the matter, or the matter's prosper stage.
+Fire defeats Metal
+Water defeats Fire
Water: The low point of the matter, or the matter's dying or hiding stage.
+Water spawns wood
-Spawned by metal
Earth: The changing point of the matter.
Earth generally contains all elements including Fire, Water, Wood and Metal. (Mid/balance point of all five element)
Sun and Moon is not in the system, but it does represent by Ying and Yang system, which also work like the Earth above that govern everything include earth.
*Doesn't mean Earth, sun, and moon is more powerful than other*
This post will update all the current conclusion in alphabetic order.
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Alice Margatroid - Metal + Fire
Fujiwara no Mokou - Fire
Iku Nagae - Wood + Sun
Kanako Yasaka - Water
Marisa Kirisame - Sun + Fire
Patchouli Knowledge - Fire + Water + Wood + Earth + Metal + Sun + Moon
Sakuya Izayoi - Metal + Moon
Suwako Moriya - Earth + Metal
Tenshi Hinanai - Earth
Yuka Kazami - Wood
Yuyuko Saigyouji - Earth
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This is a seriously discussion where I hope each girl has a pageful of debate unless is very obvious or lots of supporting facts.
Should we take into account of the personality/nature, spellcard name, spell visual, etc.
Also feel free to clarify what the element is, for example moon would be darkness, etc.
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Patchouli and Alice have all elements.
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I notice that, but I believe all magician start with understanding all element and pick the element(s) they prefer to master in.
In Merisa case, she prefer Light and Heat magic.
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I notice that, but I believe all magician start with learning all element and pick the element they prefer to master in.
In Merisa case, she prefer Light and Heat magic.
I think Patchouli prefer darkness and combine it with the rest of 5 elements. I guessed that based on her fondness to darkness, she always locked herself in underground library.
For Alice, I guessed she prefer Metal and Fire. Her dolls attack in SWR use sharp metallic weapons and she can make her dolls explode too.
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I think Patchouli prefer darkness and combine it with the rest of 5 elements. I guessed that based on her fondness to darkness, she always locked herself in underground library.
For Alice, I guessed she prefer Metal and Fire. Her dolls attack in SWR use sharp metallic weapons and she can make her dolls explode too.
Haven't research enough on Patchouli to argue with that, but it's possible she keep it underground just because it will preserve the books better or other reasons.
For Alice, what do you think about wood element? Her doll probably made of wood too...and what her doll holding doesn't necessary reflect her element. Can't argue with doll exploding though. XD
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Haven't research enough on Patchouli to argue with that, but it's possible she keep it underground just because it will preserve the books better.
For Alice, what do you think about wood element? Her doll probably made of wood too...and what her doll holding doesn't necessary reflect her element. Can't argue with doll exploding though. XD
Patchouli should be has balanced elements power, that is the first thing that came to my mind.
If I look at her dolls (Shanghai and Hourai), there is no way her doll made from wood. Beside, Alice's dolls didn't hold anything instead, their weapons are materialized from Alice magic energy.
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Oh, thanks for the details. I guess I will add to the list until new facts appear.
Anyway, Merisa said she prefer Light and Heat magic, anything you want to add?
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Oh, thanks for the details. I guess I will add to the list until new facts appear.
Anyway, Merisa said she prefer Light and Heat magic, anything you want to add?
I agreed on Marisa's elements. Her hakkero can emit heat energy and she blast that heat energy using light as emitter, that's how the Master Spark works. Plus, Marisa also uses stars as her danmaku bullet in IN and SWR, that also support the fact that she uses a lot of light elements.
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Even still, the properties of Wood sounds fairly close to Alice.
Reimu: Earth/Sun
Marisa: Fire/Sun
Rumia: Moon
Cirno: Water
Meiling: Earth, possibly Sun
Patchy: Er, all of them
Sakuya: Metal
Remilia: Moon
Letty: Water
Chen: Sun
Prismrivers: Metal
Youmu: Wood/Metal
Yuyuko: Water
Ran: Sun
Yukari: Moon
Wriggle: Wood
Mystia: Moon
Keine: Water
Tewi: Earth/Wood
Reisen: Dunno. Fire/Moon?
Eirin: Moon/Metal
Kaguya: Moon/Earth
Mokou: derp derp Fire
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Yukari would do both sun and moon so as to manipulate the border between them and somehow make it stronger.
Or something.
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Reimu:
Shine Maiden = Witch girl, yet she use Talisman paper to exorcist demon(Note: Not exorcist evil). (Moon/Sun)
Ying-Yang orb = Light and darkness orb, only her Bloodline can use it. (Moon/Sun)
Aya Shameimaru wind power should be represent by what element? Or should I add it as an element?
Yukari would do both sun and moon so as to manipulate the border between them and somehow make it stronger.
Not too convince on that, I think you are influence by other game that extreme opposite element conflict will rip open a portal to another dimension?
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Actually I've never played a game involving stuff like this. >.>
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the most obvious ones:
Patchouli: Fire, Earth, Wind, Water, Metal, Light, Darkness
Alice: Fire, Darkness
Reimu: Light, Darkness
Marisa: ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Utsuho Reiuzi = Fire + Earth
Utsuho is Living at underground, it is natural to have earth element. Combined it with Fire, she can make her fire attack have quite masses.
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i disagree, Fire and Earth dun mix.
If u mind Fire and Wind I dun quite mind.
Someone has to theorize what is atomic power characterized under.
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i disagree, Fire and Earth dun mix.
If u mind Fire and Wind I dun quite mind.
Someone has to theorize what is atomic power characterized under.
It is simple, atomic power is need fuel and those fuel are radioactive materials. Radioactive materials such as plutonium and uranium are mined from earth so it is natural that atomic power inherits earth element characteristic. Those radioactive materials' atoms fuse each other and creating explosion that we know as fire element.
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Wind. nooklear weponz generate blastwaves.
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Utsuho Reiuzi = Sun + Fire + Earth
There, better.
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Utsuho Reiuzi = Sun + Fire + Earth + WIIIINNDDDD
Fixed the fix.
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Marisa: ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Marisa: LOVE
With how much she uses the power of love in her spell cards, it might as well be a canon element.
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cardcaptors of the clow expect the unexpected now
fixed^4
I don't think Darkness is a canon element. The only references are Rumia and Mystia, but that's more of abilities, rather.
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Once again, I will ignore any LISTING and go for those that have reasoning in it.
Utsuho is Living at underground, it is natural to have earth element. Combined it with Fire, she can make her fire attack have quite masses.
I don't think we should factor living environment into account, otherwise Alice live in the forest, then she would have wood element too.
i disagree, Fire and Earth dun mix.This is eastern asia elemental system, like Ying and Yang, opposite element can mix.
It is simple, atomic power is need fuel and those fuel are radioactive materials. Radioactive materials such as plutonium and uranium are mined from earth so it is natural that atomic power inherits earth element characteristic. Those radioactive materials' atoms fuse each other and creating explosion that we know as fire element.
Base on all these, don't you think Reiuji should be Metal element instead of earth? Since all those are metal.
I don't think Darkness is a canon element. The only references are Rumia and Mystia, but that's more of abilities, rather.
First post, the listed 7 elements is the canon one, darkness would be represent by MOON.
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i disagree, Fire and Earth dun mix.
Lava/Magma, ever heard of it. Stuff can burn the hell out of you even though it comes from the earth.
Meh a few, of my own...
Kisume - Fire/Water
Yamame - Earth (given)
Parsee - JEALOUSY Water/Moon(?)*
Yuugi - Earth (perhaps Steel as well? I dunno I'm thinking she could have another element to her, but dunno which one would fit best)
*I say Moon for it's been told that darkness is represented by Moon, not sure if it fits in anyone elses eyes but I think it does. Feel free to pick it apart at will.
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Nitori: Water
*runs away*
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Iku is an obvious one, since she only has lightning based attacks, her element is the lightning.
Tenshi's power is the "manipulation of land", so she belongs to the earth category, Mokou is burning like hell so she's a fire one.
Yuka... maybe wood, she's the flower master of the four seasons, and because of her powers she's almost like the embodiement of nature.
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If I look at her dolls (Shanghai and Hourai), there is no way her doll made from wood. Beside, Alice's dolls didn't hold anything instead, their weapons are materialized from Alice magic energy.
in SA, Alice's dolls do contain gunpowder: http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Subterranean_Animism:_Marisa_and_Alice%27s_Scenario#Stage_5
(in b4 Miss Marisa! Look! I'm shooting! I'm..)
my guess:
- Yuka = wood+sun (sun, because of the attacks involving lasers; though there's an unused ending theme for LLS, Crescent Dream, so, it could be moon instead)
- Suwako = earth+water+metal (she can produce earth, has a Fountain of Math sc and an iron ring sc)
- Kanako = wind+water (she can create sky, is a goddess of wind and rain)
there are also other elements or systems here, for those who may be interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element
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I always thought Marisa used Moon, Sun and Star as her elements. Doesn't her spellcircle uses those symbols?
Also, from Meiling's stronger cards, I'd think she'd be water elemental. Typhoon and Rain
I also think Darkness should be related to Moon. Rumia's powers become null at moonless nights, right?
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Cirno - Water
Patchy - All
Sakuya - Metal
Remilia - Moon
Youmu - Metal
Tei - Wood
Reisen - Moon
Kaguya - Moon
Mokou - Fire
Yuka - Earth, Wood
Komachi - Metal
Iku - Wood (Lightning is associated with Wood. See also: Sailor Jupiter)
Tenshi - Earth
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- Yuka = wood+sun (sun, because of the attacks involving lasers; though there's an unused ending theme for LLS, Crescent Dream, so, it could be moon instead)
I think ending theme have nothing to do with it. :p
I guess laser = sun then.
- Suwako = earth+water+metal (she can produce earth, has a Fountain of Math sc and an iron ring sc)
Have to agree with the goddess of earth, but metal just happens to be inside the earth, not sure about water and she did lost to kanako(water) . Not sure how she able to control Mishaguji(dark) though.
Edit: Ah her ancient war story she use metal weapon which rusted by Kanoko, I guess she can bring out of lot metal or something.
- Kanako = wind+water (she can create sky, is a goddess of wind and rain)
Not sure where to put wind, water is noted.
there are also other elements or systems here, for those who may be interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element
It pretty much can be anything at this rate, although I prefer to follow the system of Touhou, but if everyone think I should add new stuff, I am fine with it.
Iku is an obvious one, since she only has lightning based attacks, her element is the lightning.
(Lightning is associated with Wood. See also: Sailor Jupiter)
k, I will add it until someone have better facts.
Tenshi's power is the "manipulation of land", so she belongs to the earth category, Mokou is burning like hell so she's a fire one.
Agree
Yuka... maybe wood, she's the flower master of the four seasons, and because of her powers she's almost like the embodiement of nature.
I will go with wood, since it represent growth.
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I think these classifications are being based entirely on the character's abilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing)
Please fix.
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All touhou characters are Japanese, thus all of their respective element(s) = Moon.
Amidoinitrite?
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but then, the tale of the Bamboo Cutter wouldn't make sense (as it is now), nor the story of humans claiming success on lunar exploration (according to the lunarians). Thus, they must belong to Earth..
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I think these classifications are being based entirely on the character's abilities.
Please fix.
I conclude to let it base on ability instead of personality because it would conflict with facts like a good person able to use power of darkness. You have any suggestion to base it something else?
All touhou characters are Japanese, thus all of their respective element(s) = Moon.
What are you hinting about Japanese? By any chance you mean all human, ghost, magician, shine maiden, youkai, and TENSHI who happens to be japanese are Moon element just because they are Japanese? Are you labeling element base on RACE?
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My joke was not in taste :(
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My joke was not in taste :(
More like you fail to tell it correctly.
Next time try something like,
All touhou characters are Fire, because they are HOT!
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Your joke was better in taste, but really lame :(
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Yea, I notice. Can't be helped, somehow I do really well when I chat in MSN though.
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My joke was not in taste :(
*Mine* wasn't, though I knew what you meant :D
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Japanese = Moonspeak
Japan = Moon
Touhou = Moon
is what I got.
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...it would had been a good joke...
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but then, the tale of the Bamboo Cutter wouldn't make sense (as it is now), nor the story of humans claiming success on lunar exploration (according to the lunarians). Thus, they must belong to Earth..
people from the first lunar exploration were not moon people so they're element is not moon.
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I wholly refuse to classify a char moon element just because they live on the moon. >:(
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There are characters who do not have elements. How do you give an element to Shinki, who CREATED ALL THE ELEMENTS IN MAKAI? How do you give an element to Yukari, who CREATED ALL OF GENSOKYO? Is there an overall element for Makai or Gensokyo? What about Yuyuko and Hakugyokurou? What about Shikieiki? Eirin?
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There are characters who do not have elements.
That's up for debate, those who see it scientifically would put light and dark for yukari due to the wavelength time light speed manipulation stuff while those who go visually will think all 7 rainbow color mix together will be white, which represent nothing would suggest all element. Or going literary with Wuxing system that Earth, sun, moon govern all element so that could be her element.
These are Wuxing sign so there are element that represent medicine, healing for Eirin if we take it literally.
Anyway, Yukari didn't create all of GENSOKYO, she has a big role in it though.
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I'm inclining to say Yuyuko is Earth element.
She's the princess of the dead, and earth and plants have a relation to dead things. Grown on feeding of dead beings, feed living things, consume the once living things, etc.
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She's the princess of the dead, and earth and plants have a relation to dead things. Grown on feeding of dead beings, feed living things, consume the once living things, etc.
If this is base on the science of decompose and plants growth, then first of all, Yuyuko have nothing to do with decompose and plant growth, second, plant don't specifically feed on dead things, they also need other kinds of minerals and not necessary need dead decomposed animal to get it.
You are linking her to unrelated things, like expanding on your concept, she's also water and sun since plant FEED on sunlight and water too, along with the mineral.
Edit: Something bugging me about this, either I can't explain it correctly or I missed your point badly.
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I was actually going for the transition of states between life and death
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O..k these are some deep stuff here, so it will take a few posts or more for me to understand it.
Life -> Death -> X
At point x, you are saying providing death itself to continuing life. This is handle by earth while the process is consider Sun(light).
Now, how is Yuyuko fit into earth part or the process part?
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ok, to clarify even further, it has nothing to do with photosynthesis either.
As I said, it has to do with the transition of states between life and death. Not in the Christian sense of the world, but the one used for Touhou
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Ah ok, but Yuyuko power is Transit Life --> Death, it doesn't cover the Death ---> earth/wood part which is my question.
In other word, she didn't handle the transition from death to life, which is the earth part.
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ok, nevermind man.
No idea how you got the idea of Death to plants from my comment, though
Earth would be constancy and foundation, the constant pass from one state to the next
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...and please explain how that is linked to Yuyuko being Earth elemental.
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I think I figured out why there are so many problems here
You say
Earth: The changing point of the matter.
Earth generally contains all elements including Fire, Water, Wood and Metal. (Mid/balance point of all five element)
I took Earth from Touhou's perspective while you took another one.
Life and Death is a constant, the transition is constant. Undead, poltergeist, etc are paranormal happenings, outside of the cycle.
EDIT: Also, she would be Eart element furthermore by the fact her body is the foundation of the seal on the Saigyou Ayakashi
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...That's convincingly enough. Added to the list.
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Chen = earth; stage 3 of Guwange is supposed to relate to the earth element.
No, this does not bother me at all.
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Chen = earth; stage 3 of Guwange is supposed to relate to the earth element.
Basing element on where they appear? If Cirno appear in a volcano, should I put her as fire?
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Cirno would never be in a volcano, hypothetical or not.
Unless you want to drink her.
Put Cirno in a volcano, let her element be fire for 5 seconds.
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Right, let's everyone live on the moon be moon element then. It's for the best!
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Sakuya's elements are metal+darkness. Her abilities to manipulate sharp metal objects describe her metal element. Her abilities to manipulate time explain there is darkness involved beside metal.
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Time = darkness?
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Time = darkness?
Time is something mysterious, like darkness. Since time itself is not an element, the closest match is darkness.
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Not really accurate but I feel very comfortable with the idea. Added.
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darkness (read: void) is the opposite of space, which is the advancement of time
shinyjam: play guwange
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The Wu Xing System doesn't cut it for me as it doesn't even include the primer wind.
I like to base this more on the Schools of magic rather than basic elements.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/Cadmas/magicschools-1.png)
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"Crusing" = Cursing?
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Crap. I knew I'd spell something wrong. :(
Something about this site makes me spell like a idiot.
Fix'd
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Something else to help...
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q158/AyaReiko/cap001.jpg)