You are aligned with the Ninja Sex Party coalition, and you win when all threats are eliminated.
its rng, duh(http://i.imgur.com/vuOAONN.jpg)
Are you going to do this all game Mr.123? Because you may be running for the Yoshika award if you do.
Pokemon, do you have some kind of post restriction?
Why did you change your vote?
Wait, I just realized Serela isn't in this game. You jerk! One of you replace out plz
Well, tiny things are how we get the ball rolling. Even if you phrase them in the most self-conscious way. <_<
Wait, I just realized Serela isn't in this game. You jerk! One of you replace out plz
Junko, what exactly is your post restriction? Can you try to explain that pictographically while we make guesses at your intent?
Well; this is gonna get irritating fast. But a post restriction is a post restriction; at least he's not being needlessly annoying like Yoshika.
Anyway this is a very tiny thing; not even enough to vote for but I gotta ask:
Why does that even matter? It was clearly still RVS.
If you don't try to move things out of RVS, they never will. I wanted to see what his reaction would be to the question. His reaction was okay I guess, since he didn't overreact in any way and just answered it simply.
also, post restrictions are lame
I'll also echo what BBM said; NNR; Zakeri already said his vote is currently a placeholder now that he knows it's a posting restriction. I don't agree with voting Zakeri for a vote he made when he did not have the information he did now; especially after he he outright stated that he's only placeholding right now.
tbh i would rather lynch Junko off the face of the planet since i trust Vhaltzo to not include such a confusing role in the setup. but thats like super personal so i am trying to set it aside for now
That's not what Zak said at all; he said that he had nobody else to vote, not that he was voting Junko for having the posting restriction. For one thing, he was voting Junko before we realized he had a posting restriction. And for that matter, I also posted after the posting restriction became clear and didn't move my vote away from Junko either. Why is Zak worse?
I don't think Junko would come up with a fake like this by himself. The posting restriction doesn't say anything about his alignment but I highly doubt it's completely made up.
(http://i.imgur.com/sPQT5Ue.jpg?1)
also I'm guessing from the sun picture that Junko can only have thoughts during the day and from the picture of the sun setting that he can post during the night
Is this you saying you find that quote scummy in some way? He looks kinda like a mafia godfather or something.(http://i.imgur.com/FadSlo4.jpg)
Zakeri's reaction to BBM's 'defense' of him seems a little confusing; but he does say it's mostly gut to the last sentence, and I can see where that might be coming from.Basically, the use of "Why X not Y?" is a fallacy based argument which is a soft scumtell. I don't like that he used it in what was basically a unneeded defense for me, in what might have been an attempt at buddying me. It also makes the NNR vote look more opportunistic than a regular RVS-jumping vote should be.
i just have no opinions, is that a problem? :VBBM didn't shoot down himself as a topic, he was commenting on your opinion. You could reply to him more clearly about what you think he's doing that's town. (Even if it's true, etc. I think BBM is more fluid/loose as town, and as mafia he's more like, gentlemanly polite)
you had the most activity so i talked about you but you shot down the topic yourself
like i dunno, mb we can start guessing at what Junko is saying? that seems like a massive waste of time to me tho so i would just wait for him to simplify his codes
yeah theres nothing here, its stale
SB and BBM For mafia.
I wish.Yeah, thinking about it that'd be kind of scary. Only a little, though.
like i dunno, mb we can start guessing at what Junko is saying? that seems like a massive waste of time to me tho so i would just wait for him to simplify his codes
Basically, the use of "Why X not Y?" is a fallacy based argument which is a soft scumtell.People make bad arguments because they aren't good at logic. Scum make bad arguments because they have to make up stuff.
I don't like that he used it in what was basically a unneeded defense for me, in what might have been an attempt at buddying me.I don't think that's what happened at all. BBM was asking NNR to explain why he was voting for you instead of another player who had also voted for Pokemon (himself). I don't think he was defending you, he was interrogating NNR. In the same way that I don't think I'm defending BBM now; I'm questioning your interpretation of the events because see point a) if somebody pushes their vote even after their reasoning...etc etc.
i feel better unvoting because a vote signifies you want that person ded.
that seems like a massive waste of time to me tho so i would just wait for him to simplify his codes
Ok back momentarily before out for the night.
I wanted to say, I don't want to focus entirely on the post restriction since it's not really contributing much to the discussion.
I'm going to change my avatar since I keep confusing myself with NNR.
***
The exchange between DNA and BBM on page 1 raised an eyebrow. Yes it is RNG. For me, I put down a random vote until I have something to improve it to. I do think DNA's shift was odd. On page 2 he had another run in with BBM after his 'BBM is tryhard = town' comment re: unvoting.
DNA
I think...trying to decrypt what Pokemon is saying would be a massive waste of town's time since they will probably be able to post normally at some point to explain and if they wanted to be clearly understood they would surely post more intelligently than they are now. At the moment they just have a random vote, I'm sure once they have a serious vote down they will try to explain it better in some way.
EG this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1116966.html#msg1116966) I don't know that face; is it one of the dudes from the Godfather series? What's it supposed to mean? I don't understand but I want to believe if it was something important, Pokemon would make it clear. Until then let's move on.
Zak (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117045.html#msg1117045) said:People make bad arguments because they aren't good at logic. Scum make bad arguments because they have to make up stuff.
I can't really agree that a logical fallacy is a scumtell. It just invalidates the reason for their vote; if somebody pushes their vote even after their reasoning has been pointed out to be flawed, theeeen you probably have a scumtell.
I also disagree with this:I don't think that's what happened at all. BBM was asking NNR to explain why he was voting for you instead of another player who had also voted for Pokemon (himself). I don't think he was defending you, he was interrogating NNR. In the same way that I don't think I'm defending BBM now; I'm questioning your interpretation of the events because see point a) if somebody pushes their vote even after their reasoning...etc etc.
Anyway I'm more concerned with how DNA keeps coming back to Junko who can't really defend themselves at all right now.
DNA
I'm gonna paraphase Kilga here; an empty unvote could be a scumtell because town are always trying to improve their vote.
I can see the arguments for Zak and BBM, and I feel that DNA's focus on Pokemon and...I want to say flawed but I feel like it's more misguided...arguments are damaging.
So I'm gonna go with this for now.
##unvote
##vote DarkNinjaABC
To be clear, my case is 'wasting time, misguided or anti-town points, empty unvote'.
I want to see some content from Polaris real soon.
##Unvote, ##Vote: NNRTone mostly, and parking your vote because you have 'nothing better' also seems kind of bad. however, Zak does do stuff later on so it's mostly moot at this point.
That's not what Zak said at all; he said that he had nobody else to vote, not that he was voting Junko for having the posting restriction. For one thing, he was voting Junko before we realized he had a posting restriction. And for that matter, I also posted after the posting restriction became clear and didn't move my vote away from Junko either. Why is Zak worse?
i am getting tryharding vibes from BBM, generally that's pretty safe coming from town!BBM on d1 so i am waiting and seeingEmpty unvotes should never be a thing, really. If you don't have a scumread, you should get one and vote, generally.
##Umvote to remain politically neutral
i feel better unvoting because a vote signifies you want that person ded. i dont agree with the wagon so i am showing my disagreement with the current wagons by not placing my voteuses a double standard here, he disagrees with the wagons and doesn't vote, but he thinks that someone else is scum and still does not vote.
and i trust i have enuff time to come back to vote
tbh i find shadoweh to be scummy, that attack on not elaborating during rvs feels off and her activity is unlike most d1s where she would abuse her mind control beams
Basically, the use of "Why X not Y?" is a fallacy based argument which is a soft scumtell. I don't like that he used it in what was basically a unneeded defense for me, in what might have been an attempt at buddying me. It also makes the NNR vote look more opportunistic than a regular RVS-jumping vote should be.This seems like a good catch the way you interpret it, Zak, but I guess BBM's defense would be nice as well. I'm tempted to side with Zak and sheep but that's probably biased because BBM is voting me.
I don't like Raikaria either; he hasn't given a straight stance on anything yet. He first says Zak's vote is a little confusing but then says he sees where it's coming from- so am I scummy or not? Same with SB's Zak vote, and same with Zak himself. In fact his vote is still on Poly from RVS for...?
I don't like Raikaria either; he hasn't given a straight stance on anything yet. He first says Zak's vote is a little confusing but then says he sees where it's coming from- so am I scummy or not? Same with SB's Zak vote, and same with Zak himself. In fact his vote is still on Poly from RVS for...?Raikaria is being indecisive, but imo he doesn't seem scummy. I'd be surprised if he turned out mofia.
Shadoweh- do you actually find Zak scummy? Your vote is still there from RVS but your language implies you find DNA worse.
People make bad arguments because they aren't good at logic. Scum make bad arguments because they have to make up stuff.This why I specified that it's a soft scumtell, as oppose to the usual hardness of one.
I can't really agree that a logical fallacy is a scumtell. It just invalidates the reason for their vote;
Then, "why X not Y" is a perfectly logical reason for a scumread because when there are multiple people doing Action A but someone votes one person for it without mentioning the other, at all, that person is arbitrarily pushing one person over the other for no real reason, which is generally because they're scum BSing something.This is false. a natural part of scumhunting is picking out and singling people for actions they've done, and a natural part of human psyche is to pick up on the first instance of something they notice and call out against it- especially since Mafia is a game where we're racing for information. I already said his reason for picking me out was because He noticed I did it but didn't notice others who also did it - are you actively denying this could happen?
His vote against me is absolutely terrible because he firstly agrees with my defence of him and then votes me for a part of it???Active Misinterpretation.
It just seems he's missing the point of Zakeri's beef against DNAI don't even remember having a beef with him. Let me check.
Even if he can do it later, where's the harm in it? How is it anti-town to try and do so?I think the harm comes from the fact that it wastes brain power and is not scumhunting - it's the same set of problems as trying to rolegame the setup, except instead of getting alignment info, we're just getting the thoughts of a person posting on day one anyway.
This kind of sucks. Deadline happens while I'll be in the middle of work. (I'll try to stop in before work at 9am but no promises >_>)Raikaria is being indecisive, but imo he doesn't seem scummy. I'd be surprised if he turned out mofia.(http://i.imgur.com/gx81qlf.png)
As for Zak, I'm really not sure. His posts make me nervous but I'm not really sure why? I wanted to see more of how you two played out first (not that that's worked well. :S Everyone's asleep this game.) In a few hours I'll be more free to make a decision on it.
DNA's freakout in response to being voted was pretty hilarious. I don't think anyone mentioned scumslips did they? (unless Sky P did, I haven't read his giant post yet).
i dunno why NNR and Shadow seem to have a bone to pick with me. NNR essentially gave up on further elaborating his case and just use vague methinks DNA iz scum and shadoweh somehow treated my perfectly justified irritation as a freakout, what?But I have totally justified it, in my posts reasoning why I think you're scum.
mother earth
Then, "why X not Y" is a perfectly logical reason for a scumread because when there are multiple people doing Action A but someone votes one person for it without mentioning the other, at all, that person is arbitrarily pushing one person over the other for no real reason, which is generally because they're scum BSing something.Zak:
This is false. a natural part of scumhunting is picking out and singling people for actions they've done, and a natural part of human psyche is to pick up on the first instance of something they notice and call out against it- especially since Mafia is a game where we're racing for information. I already said his reason for picking me out was because He noticed I did it but didn't notice others who also did it - are you actively denying this could happen?
I think the harm comes from the fact that it wastes brain power and is not scumhunting - it's the same set of problems as trying to rolegame the setup, except instead of getting alignment info, we're just getting the thoughts of a person posting on day one anyway.
Wrt DNA: Trying to decipher what Junko was saying doesn't stop us from scumhunting as well, does it? It just feels like it because this has been a really slow day. Zak and BBM feel like they're clashing in game theory rather than in who the scum is. They should vote real scum, like Sky Paladin!
I didn't really notice it before but his DNA case seems hypocritical (as well as bad, for reasons I stated earlier) considering that Sky's only contributions at that point were related to the post restriction too. In his *updated* case he basically says he's scum because he might be crumbing something which COULD BE DISTRACTING but it only is because you're making it so? I also find it strange how he's so interested in DNA lacking in opinions when roughly half the game are in the same position. The only difference is that he's stating it outright, which isn't scummy as of itself.
Not satisfied with Shadoweh atm as her only opinion is that DNA is scum based on the freak-out, and she doesn't even examine why it's scummy.
I can barely understand the last half of DNA's NNR case, can you explain it better?
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky Paladin
I'm probably gonna be here to change my vote later but I'd rather not lynch DNA because I don't feel like anything he's done has been actually scummy?
Cut by a Sky post that feels like it has more commentary than reads in it. There's a lot addressing Zak's content but I can barely make out what Sky thinks of him and him picking a side at the end just feels kind of arbitrary?
I didn't really notice it before but his DNA case seems hypocritical (as well as bad, for reasons I stated earlier) considering that Sky's only contributions at that point were related to the post restriction too.
he's not actually defending himself from Skypal really; which I feel is something town are more likely to do
throwaway one-liners by DNA about him complaining about the heat while calling DNA scummy for talking about Junko's posts.
I know that he's claiming that the heat stuff is another example of DNA fluff but to me it looks like Skypal fluff
He talks a lot about me vs Zak but then he just kind of plops down an arbitrary judgement in my favour which I don't get.My first wall post I picked apart Zak and then DNA, I went after DNA because I thought he was more likely to be scum. I've really only had time to look at DNA, Zak, and yourself.
DNA, Zak, Raikaria, Shadoweh, and Junko are scummy, which is like half the game.I'm trying to evaluate votes that are bad because bad votes are scummy votes. EG up until now Raikaria had a bad vote. Now he has a good vote (a vote that is justified in some way that I can understand) so I'd remove him from that list.
But do you think that either DNA or I are scum?
So right now I'm at like... Zak > Raikaria > Sky?It seems like you were happy to lynch a Zak until, as you said just a moment ago, it doesn't seem like Zak is going to be lynched.
In the year 2014 we lynch people for being scummy, not for the information they give upon flipping.
It's true that your only contributions before the DNA vote were based around Junko's PR (and an RVS vote but yeah.)
Wrt Town not defending themselves: scum's objective is to avoid the lynch. Not defending yourself is pretty much counter-intuitive to this.
Really Sky's BBM suspicion feels like it's super reactionary rather than saying why he's scum.
In the year 2014 we lynch people for being scummy, not for the information they give upon flipping. Why are you not enthusiastic about either lynch? Can't really remember you saying anything about either of them.
I figure there's two ways this night phase will go.
1 - scum will hit me and sab SB to get a free kill on DNA when he checks my corpse;
or 2 - scum will sab SB and hit DNA to get a free fake guilty on me.
Either way, scum will have to sab SB so if we have a watcher they better be watching SB to see who visits.
I was pressed for time because I had to sleep and there was an hour left in the phase, so let's continue from where we left off.
I crumbed my role in this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117263.html#msg1117263) when I listed three reasons for why I was not claiming.
Reason 3 is left blank, I'll fill it in now:
"3 - I don't need to claim; everybody will know my role in day 2. I am an announcer."
This whole drama came down with about an hour left to go til phase end (or so I thought, the phase extended itself by an hour somehow) and after I was supposed to be in bed.
I didn't claim then, and a town!DNA should also not have claimed, because with less than an hour to go, the only option for town was a panic consolidation based entirely on whichever claim you happened to believe. That is how these consolidation mislynches keep on happening. He should have crumbed something like BT did when he was a weak visitor and ran into Miller Dan but I concede with ten minutes left there's not a whole lot of options.
"I am the town weak visitor, I essentially visit people each night, if their alignment is scum or i fail my investigation, i die."
At this stage I'm believing this role claim.
It is kind of suicide, since he just told the scums they can kill him with a sabotage/redirect on to one of their own guys/framing or any other kind of thing. It IS a super obvious town role though because that specific weakness exists unless it's, you know, a fake role claim to avoid a lynch at all costs. There were several people (BBM, SB notably) who said they would hammer DNA over a no-lynch, until he made that claim.
SB This is lining up lynches really, and even if DNA does die, we can't trust the result. Scums can sabotage/interfere with DNA and we won't even know about it (unless Watcher).
I gave SB the benefit of the doubt because he actually made a case rather than just blindly voting. The core concept was wrong however. SB made two points in his case (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117240.html#msg1117240) that could be addressed.
Point 1 - "I didn't really notice it before but his DNA case seems hypocritical (as well as bad, for reasons I stated earlier) considering that Sky's only contributions at that point were related to the post restriction too."
This is a misrepresentation of the facts. The post that SB is referring to is here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117082.html#msg1117082).
This is the post where I voted for DNA for time wasting (focusing on Junko), the empty unvote and justification for that unvote, and the strange vote switch in RVS. SB is only focusing on the Junko point, which I actually discounted myself (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117083.html#msg1117083) in the post immediately after.
SB's case focuses on a point that I had discarded long before he suddenly noticed it existed. That's why I said that his case was bad.
Point 2 -
"In his *updated* case he basically says he's scum because he might be crumbing something which COULD BE DISTRACTING but it only is because you're making it so? I also find it strange how he's so interested in DNA lacking in opinions when roughly half the game are in the same position."
IIRC the only player apart from DNA who really said anything about not knowing what to do/where to vote was Raikaria, but you're welcome to go through and find instances of players implying they have no opinions. Well, that's kind of tough because up until the last few hours of the phase, the only people who really posted at all were BBM, SB, Zak, DNA and myself. Do we have a five way towny slapfight? It feels like nobody else is really playing this game.
I was making an effort to make a case and I found something that seemed weird so I brought it up. DNA didn't address my points (Well he called me a moron for my first post) so I thought I might be on to something. I shared it publicaly because I hoped other players would review the information since I can't do it all on my own. It's extra odd right now, because if he was crumbing, it doesn't seem to relate to his claim at all.
SB also really ignores the post where I apparently cut him, where I started challenging Zak on some of the points he's made. I've been really busy (and still am) and I didn't have time to catch up on all the points and players that I'd missed.
Basically, SB's case has nothing substantial behind it and if you read my posts that he is referring to, you can see he has taken them out of context to his own advantage.
It's day one and some people are trying hard to make cases; I pulled bits of scraps out of DNA's posts to try and get an early lead, so I can't blame SB for trying the same. However the difference is that when I realised one of my points was inaccurate (encouraging time wasting), I dropped it; and my case still had several key points that remain uncontested. SB's case had one point that was simply wrong, and another point that's just an appeal to indecisive players. I didn't have time to explain this so I disproved the key point and junked it. Town should always be trying to improve their vote, and I don't really feel SB's vote was an improvement at all. I initially gave him a semi-clear because of the way it came up but on the re-read and sitting on it for a day, I'm feeling more suspicious of it.
***
BBM
SB spent more time responding to my complaints against BBM did which was odd; I don't really accept 'there was no time' because SB had plenty of time, so I expect a better explanation from BBM this phase.
He did say one thing though;
"Skypal's suspicion is incredibly reactionary and twists like everything I've said into something scummy."
If it's reactionary, that's my playstyle. Remember the previous game where I had to argue with a tunnel vision town and ended up voting for the guy who was most anti-town over the scum.
I respect you as somebody who makes good calls, so for you to so easily jump on to what I know and pointed out to be as a non-existent case, and then stick to it, makes me question your motives. Upon reviewing your posts, I noticed you listed Raikaria as a higher scumpick than me and Raikaria was voting SB, who'd just made a case on me. It was startling to see you vote for me over Raikaria basically. So to me, it looks like a blatant wagon hop, especially when I see this kind of comment:
"I don't feel like he's really going to a lot of effort on anybody other than DNA. While the stuff about not voting Shadoweh is true, NNR pointed it out way earlier,"
when I'd just posted a bunch of stuff after Zak, like, you just completely ignored the entire post except for one tiny sentence. My comment on DNA re: Shadow was a single line under people he had actually expressed an opinion on and I didn't actually make any conclusions about it. It was just data so it's weird that you'd put it in as a supporting point somehow.
Then there's the stuff with asking for the claims when nobody was going to be lynched, the misrepping and...well this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117263.html#msg1117263) basically.
Anyway, we did run out of time and I'm talking to myself now, so.
Assuming I'm still alive I guess we'll continue this in day 2.
2 - There's a couple of statements from DNA that I particularly don't like:
***Some kind of pyro/planet crumbs?***
BURN THE ALIENS AND THEIR MIND CONTROL BEAMS
impale you on a stick and burn you
the sun reminds me of how hot and wet it is
god its hot over here
@Just. Meant that I could type normally D2. The two suns meant D2.
Shadoweh;s been similar to rakaria IMO meaning she didn't really give much stance on anything except for DNA. Never actually states what was scummy about DNA freakout response. I don't really get her read on me.
It'd be OK if Raikaria had at least posted anything about someone indicating alignment, but he hasn't.
Also I forgot to mention I don't think highly of SB in terms of liklihood to be town and SB is wanting Sky lynched and not DNA.
So; yeah; I'd rather vote against what my strongest scumread right now wants.
Haven't given a straight stance on anything because I don't *have* a clear stance on anything yet. I'm still attempting to figure out everyone. The only person I'm pretty sure if town is pokemon; aka: That guy with the posting restriction.
Rakaria why do still want to lynch poly/bard slot despite him not saying anything at the time of your post.
Yes, yes, I know, it's meta by now that you just don't participate in D1 and take a free pass to D2, but at least make the posts you do make worth it. They aren't.It's because the past couple months i've been finding it difficult to play Mafia for depression reasons, not meta. I'm trying to ease my way back into the run of things with this game, but it's hard.
That exact reason. People who lurk Day 1 here are often scum; letting the most vocal members of the town rip themselves apart early.This is hilariously hypocritical as well.
Actually yeah based on the past three post I'm just going to ##Vote: Raikaria right now, all sorts of wrong with his posts.
Townreads are not scumreads and don't count as contributing. I could call anyone town but I wouldn't be getting anything useful done if I'm trying to hunt for scum. This isn't Oarfish's game.
This is hilariously hypocritical as well.
Actually yeah based on the past three post I'm just going to ##Vote: Raikaria right now, all sorts of wrong with his posts.
Townreads are not scumreads and don't count as contributing. I could call anyone town but I wouldn't be getting anything useful done if I'm trying to hunt for scum. This isn't Oarfish's game.
This is hilariously hypocritical as well.
That exact reason. People who lurk Day 1 here are often scum; letting the most vocal members of the town rip themselves apart early.
So; yeah; that's my opinion of your slot falling rapidly Bardiche.
I have work so I can't do anything right now; I'll be back around midday for a short window and then I'll be on during the day.
I'm pretty sure I'm confirmed town because DNA targetted me and didn't die; BBM coming out with a fake guilty lines up with my pick of a BBM/DNA scum team late last phase.
Gotta go.
I have work so I can't do anything right now; I'll be back around midday for a short window and then I'll be on during the day.
I'm pretty sure I'm confirmed town because DNA targetted me and didn't die; BBM coming out with a fake guilty lines up with my pick of a BBM/DNA scum team late last phase.
Gotta go.
It's because the past couple months i've been finding it difficult to play Mafia for depression reasons, not meta. I'm trying to ease my way back into the run of things with this game, but it's hard.
I am pretty badly lost right now, actually, but I'm in full agreement with Bard's read on Raikaria, I mentioned it yesterday, Raikaria voteparked all day and did nothing, which is pretty terrible.
On the other hand, Raikaria can't be a roleblocker if his action is to vend fruits, hmm.
@Mod: Can a scum player act and kill on the same night?
I could ask if announce counts as acting but I already know I'm not going to get an answer on that.
Anyway my thinking is probably too shallow at the moment, need to read more and see if I can get a deeper introspective on things.
Skypal seems like pretty obvious scum if BBM's investigation is right, so I'm just gonna pass over him and look for the buddy.
Suspecting me because I suspect you is old as time, and of course you'd find my reaction to BBM's claim weird. But can you argue why it's scum-minded to disregard a claim up in the air to pursue other leads?
It'd be OK if Raikaria had at least posted anything about someone indicating alignment, but he hasn't. I don't buy that the game has been so incredibly hard to read that he couldn't form an opinion on anyone in any direction whatsoever.
I checked your initial reasons for voting SB in your #94, Raikaria. That's what I call a chainsaw defence: you're trying to pretend he had no valid reason to vote Sky Paladin and used that as a basis to throw suspicion onto SB instead.
Why Raikaria but not Shadoweh or NNR? Zakeri had been touting his why X not Y logic so beautifully at the start, it's a good thing I disagree. I touched on both Shadoweh and NNR earlier, choosing not to vote or focus on either of them because I believe(d) Shadoweh would come in and give a fierce rebuttal without me needing to write a case on her, and NNR I discarded because he habitually pretends D1 doesn't exist and doesn't post there. It's nothing out of the ordinary, but I did find his
This space reserved to talk about Shadoweh, once she stops emulating NNR; there is a Day 1, and you are expected to participate. You do so a little, but your posts are devoid of any reasoning and some of them (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117048.html#msg1117048) don't match up. You say Darkninja's posts are terrible, but then you keep voting Zak. "It's silly" isn't usually sufficient reason to vote someone over "are terrible", and since you later upgrade DNA to your top scum pick, this is egregious. In fact, you dismantle your own reason for voting him (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117202.html#msg1117202), which Townies don't usually do. The way you talk about it is also as if it refers to other people and not yourself.I'm not actually sure what you mean by dismantle my reason to vote DNA, since I was voting him? I expected people to consolidate on the only wagon that actually existed at the time, Sky wasn't really a counterwagon even if two whole people made a 'counterwagon' at the time, and looking at how we ended up no-lynching I don't think I was wrong about what was actually possible. It ended up working out almost entirely by accident. Really what I find confusing is how we went so long with no wagons in the first place, but etc.
I note that my argument about Raikaria not consolidating (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117248.html#msg1117248) applies to you in full as well, as you note there are two hours left, tell people to consolidate, spend not a word on the alternate wagon and stubbornly insist on DNA.
p much all the things I just said"DNA's role confirmed me, so DNA and BBM are scum buddies." I mean, it's weird that he's still here posting trying to defend himself but I doubt a game this size has alot of shenanigans going on. (although I'm beginning to wonder about that).
I'm much more iffy about voting Zak at this point. The argument between him and BBM about why me fry me seems to be semantics, I'm pretty sure they're actually saying the same thing, especially since "picking out and singling people for actions they've done, and a natural part of human psyche is to pick up on the first instance of something they notice and call out against it" is a good description of what BBM did with Zak's defense in the first place.
RE: Voting Zak, not voting DNA.Oh, that makes more sense. I don't really see it as shooting down my own opinions since I wasn't sure if I was into voting Zak at the time, I just don't like empty unvoting. You're probably right that I should have gotten more involved (which.. probably would have involved pushing DNA harder so acxtually maybe its just as well I didn't)
We/you ended up going so long with no wagons in the first place in part due to inaction on your part, wouldn't you agree? I remember a Shadoweh who pushed cases.
Between NNR and Zakeri, who is most scummy to you and why?
'I didn't have a go at Sahdoweh because I expected a fierce rebuttal'.
That said we pretty much have three townie obvtowns at this point. Me, skypal and BBM. The rest is easy.#
I pretty much have no words for this. I got roleblocked, somehow I did not die?(Yes, yes, despite saying that he would die if roleblocked.)
Sky Paladin, do you have opinions on people that aren't Darkninjaabc or BBM?
"Skypal's suspicion is incredibly reactionary and twists like everything I've said into something scummy."
If it's reactionary, that's my playstyle. Remember the previous game where I had to argue with a tunnel vision town and ended up voting for the guy who was most anti-town over the scum.
Maybe I'm just being too cautious.
And I did say I doubt there's a Doctor. I mean; town already has a lot of power. And there is an unexplained thing involving you. If the Doctor confirmed he protected you it would prove Sky is scum. That's why I thought a doc outing in the event; and only that event; that they protected you; was a good idea.
I mean; such an action would give us 2 confirmed townies and a dead scum almost certainly. That's why I called for what I did. I think that outcome is worth a doc outting if a Doc did protect you.
"DNA's role confirmed me, so DNA and BBM are scum buddies." I mean, it's weird that he's still here posting trying to defend himself but I doubt a game this size has alot of shenanigans going on. (although I'm beginning to wonder about that).
actually thinking about it i used that term incorrectly. but still scummy because it was to appease darkninja and as well as because town shouldn't really care of what people think of them.
That and no-one claimed doc and I still said the existence of a doc is unlikely.
Any particular reason for voting Shadoweh?
Junko- imo you should just claim/use your role if it's some kind of day investigation.
As for Sky writing all the stuff about SB- that's like super easy WIFOM. He's also all over the place; he went from saying that I was making up the result to saying that I'm... gambiting? Well, I'm not. How does that change your entire wallpost that assumes that I was?
That and no-one claimed doc and I still said the existence of a doc is unlikely.
Any particular reason for voting Shadoweh?
If not Raikaria implies that her role makes it impossible for her to be a scum roleblocker.
The entire spiel about SB is dishonest in the sense that you're relying on a logical fallacy:
You propose SB is Scum, and without checking whether your assumption is correct, undermine him. That's counting your chicks before the eggs are hatched.
1) If you were Town suspecting SB as Scum, it doesn't make sense to vote opposite of what he wants.
Using a contrived reason as, "I think SB is scum, and I don't want his lynch target lynched", you're basically saying you actively moved to prevent Scum's lynch Day 1 and tried to push DNA's lynch ahead instead.
3) Town's weapon is a lynch. With less than 30 minutes left, instead of trying to secure a lynch, you tied up wagons. Pro-Town movement would have voted Sky Paladin in hopes someone else can hammer. Pro-Scum movement is avoiding the lynch.
I checked your initial reasons for voting SB in your #94, Raikaria. That's what I call a chainsaw defence: you're trying to pretend he had no valid reason to vote Sky Paladin and used that as a basis to throw suspicion onto SB instead.
i thought DNA targetted neko neko rex. He was hooked. If you flip town announcer if you get lynched BBM gets auto lynched so what reason would BBM have to fake a guilty.DNA did not target NNR. He claimed to have targeted me.
What situation is there were BBM is lying about his result on Sky and he is not scum; Sky? Why are you not voting him? Are you wanting to try and avoid the 1v1 or something; knowing that if BBM flipped what he claimed you would be dead?
if Sky P is lynched and flips town, we turbolynch BBM who provided the guilty track. why would you turbolynch ME?
not surprised man, coming from the guy who ties up wagons instead of making a lynch possible, are you really town?
if you are still dubious i would swallow my entire fridge's stock of michelina's mac and cheese and upload a video on youtube if hes green
If ya that confident. No need to go all knight Templar on me for being a little curious as too the nature of your survival.
If Sky P does somehow flip town I would NOT turbo BBM because think about it. Why would scum throw themselves into a pointless 1v1 only to get turboed tomorrow.
super skimmed the rest of the game and nothing stuck out at me.If I wasn't like 90% sure of DNA, I'd be voting you right now.
----------
4. BBM/SB tied up wagons with 2 votes, Raikaria didn't (lol) / proof: uhhhhh, Sky P has brain damage?
Shadoweh, I didn't ask about Sky P's posts, I'm asking who is most scummy to you between NNR and Zakeri. Let's pretend Sky Paladin doesn't exist: on what merits are these two scummy (or not) by the content of their posts, rather than the content of Sky Pal's posts?It's not really possible to ignore a likely scum. It is why I'm loathe to reread things until his flip is confirmed. To be honest I wasn't much into a scum read of either of them until te day started. This is me being terrible but any other comments on my side are gonna have to wait until later today when I wake up. >_> Sorry.
It's not really possible to ignore a likely scum. It is why I'm loathe to reread things until his flip is confirmed. To be honest I wasn't much into a scum read of either of them until te day started. This is me being terrible but any other comments on my side are gonna have to wait until later today when I wake up. >_> Sorry.
the Town Collective.scumslip much lols
don't know why some people still think i'm a dayvig. also time to reread.
PEDIT:NNR why are darkninja posts so ridiculous to you. I mean you sort of addressed his D1 I guess but you never really mentioned him up until now D2 from memory and never said why his posts are ridiculous. hmm can you try to explain that shadoweh read a little bit better. I sort of don't get the comment about well if she's scum and she's not obvious scum and i sort of get a lurky feeling about them. If you had to place category in scum,null,town or something midway what would you choose for Shadoweh NNR?
isn't even valid or valuable for an accusation, yet that's what he's been throwing at me.QuoteThe Town Collectivescumslip much lols
Except I have never been nitpicking at your stuff.
Also, NNR, I never assumed you are scumYou have not gotten off my back ~at all~ since D1, when I said your playstyle was scummy and you using it as an excuse was meta-reliance and even worse. It was a pretty shallow read I agree, but I didn't have a ton of stuff to go off of D1.
The quoted example is a completely inaccurate example of my posts taken completely out of context because that would be more convenient for you to ignore all other valid points I have raised against your playstyle, posting history, stance and shallowness of reads in general.This? This shit I don't care about. Validity or no, it's just been so fucking endless that even if I did want to bother defending against it, you'd just be using the defense as more ammunition to beat me down. I do not give a single shit about your read on me any more, because it is not going to change irregardless of what I do. Unlike you, I don't have a fancy get-out-of-scumreads-free card to throw and instantly lob me into the echelons of pro-townieness like you have. Your posts are irrelevant to me because they'll be critical of everything I post anyway.
Except blowing steam at whoever that questions your <perfect play> seems like the only thing you are interested in doingI do NOT claim to have perfect play. In fact, my play is downright shitty, and it's been that way the last few months. I blame depression. There's a reason I can barely make it past D1 any more, and I've only recently been able to even climb slightly out of my depression to manage it.
That entire wall of text is rephrasing what Sky P said. man thats unfair you dont assume sky p is scum before wagoning him, man thats unfair you dont assume i am scum before vigging him eheI do assume Skypal is scum, he was caught by a tracker visiting a dead person, that's fucking incriminating. I haven't even bothered to read his posts since then but I'm pretty sure they're a load of crap from what I've seen from the responses.
I have never known Weak roles to die upon being roleblocked. Yes it is possible that DNA is scum faking but why on earth would he as scum even include that he dies upon failing his resultThis is true. Scum would be foolishly limiting themselves if they claimed a role that results in them getting NKed, I don't think in the grand scheme of fakeclaims that a Weak role would be one of the things you think of much less go through with.
I was hoping for a reply form Raikaria about the thing I actually questioned him, rather than ignoring the question. I know he ignored it too, because he responded to the post my question was in by trying to pull up role shenanigans as a defense.
Re 152: So was your only reason for not voting Sky the fact that Sky was being voted for by the person you thought was most likely to be scum?
Also the only person you though was likely to be town was Junko/Pokemon?
I strongly disagree with Darkninjaabc that I somehow made "massive blunders". Bardiche does not make blunders. I don't consider catching up with the game after subbing in D2 to be a "massive blunder". Posting what I have after spending the night reading shit trumps "hurr durr roles".If DNA knew how to be agreeable there wouldn't still be people arguing with him when he's most likely town. Although this day phase dragging because of it can't be helping. Making massive blunders about what's going on isn't really a scumtell either when there's enough scum to talk to each other left, so etc.
urghh i misread my role pm and thought i would have this ability forever.
However; seeing that sort of reaction only happened with the outing of the daycop; I think it's fair to say that the scum was not voting Sky. That was a panic selfhammer to prevent the daycop.
We can't really just confirm half the game like that without even the Cop's result, can we?
i didn't actually ask vhaltz why i didn't die to be fair.
i will admit here if i am not actually docced then i could've possibly made a wrong assumption in the D1 claim because time was so tight and i took the flavor over the actual words after the bolded command.
as fellow town PRs you should share a similar PM format with me which means only our actions are in bold, and after that is the literal description of our abilities, i read too deep into even the words (aka the flavour) throughout the whole PM and might have misunderstood something
BUT even so theres absolutely no reason to out our doctor if we DO have one, and theres absolutely no reason too to suspect me being scum because i am not playing perfectly under incredible stress and time constrains. i am sending a PM to ask Vhaltz to clarify on what abilities i do have and i am expecting things to be cleared up
yep, i probably misunderstood something on my part, but since this additional detail would benefit scum more than town as things stand and has no impact on the wagons whatsoever atm i still see no need to retconn or alter anything.but as scum likely only has one roleblocker remaining, it means that if i succeeded, bard is blocked. but this means one between bard and BBM is lying? hell no. bard, you are probably misguided or fucked up your interpretation of my roleclaim. shoot me with your questions
lynch priority list
Sky P>NNR>Zakeri=Shadoweh
I am the town weak visitor, I essentially visit people each night, if their alignment is scum or i fail my investigation, i die.
the priority kill on Junko is suspicious as fuck too.This line is intended to make it seem like killing Junko has some sort of higher value, when it really doesn't. If scum play it safe, then they always kill Junko to prevent a Town!Shadoweh from being cleared or a Scum!Shadoweh from being outed. There's no "suspicious", it's risk-free scum play. If they wanted to be risky (and Shadoweh isn't Scum), then they would've killed Shadoweh instead, but in all other cases it's a logical and understandable kill. Using Nightkill spec to throw shit onto people while coming in with a wrong basis is the basis of actual scummy play. Throwing fits and insults at people who suspect you is also an appeal to emotion moreso than a legit defence.
Besides, my exchange with NNR felt like genuine townie frustration
I simply analyzed the cost and effect of the scum NK processDespite you claiming otherwise, you use circular logic that presumes Shadoweh is scum to get an "understandable" outcome from the NK. There's a much simpler alternative:
The reason I am actually bothering to respond to you is because I am pretty sure you are a misguided VT
Lynch Priority list:
Shadoweh>Bard>Zakeri
Ref (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117277.html#msg1117277)which finally cleared up what time you are referring to when you make this argument, so naturally i responded accordingly and changed my view because of such. the lynch order itself is something of obviously less importance that my arguments so i am delaying this until i have finished responding before updating my lynch order. but right now as things stand you do seem more and more like a misguided townie which i am okay with townreading you, for now. and that explains everything
What exactly am I misinterpreting here?
You made a roleclaim, then BBM turned out to be an actual Tracker and your role suddenly "fails", you "misread" your role PM's flavour for actual ability text and your claim to being a third investigation role is "misinterpreted lol sry"?
I don't buy that a) Town has three investigative roles alongside b) an investigative role that misreads their role PM so severely they mistakenly believe they die after copping someone/failing their action but not until c) that person's supposed action actually fails.
I don't like your gameplay for a number of reasons outside of the weird role business surrounding you. For instance:This line is intended to make it seem like killing Junko has some sort of higher value, when it really doesn't. If scum play it safe, then they always kill Junko to prevent a Town!Shadoweh from being cleared or a Scum!Shadoweh from being outed. There's no "suspicious", it's risk-free scum play. If they wanted to be risky (and Shadoweh isn't Scum), then they would've killed Shadoweh instead, but in all other cases it's a logical and understandable kill. Using Nightkill spec to throw shit onto people while coming in with a wrong basis is the basis of actual scummy play. Throwing fits and insults at people who suspect you is also an appeal to emotion moreso than a legit defence.
i didn't insult nnr to discredit his logic and neither i did it to you.
just how wide open is that hole in your brain?
you conveniently forget the obvious fact that you are the moron
I'd say given the events of Day 2 BBM is pretty clear; especially given the hand he had in lynching Sky. DNA is in a similar spot; and of course to my PoV I am clear seeing as I have a PM in my inbox saying that I am town this game.
Really it's not setting a good feeling in me reading that sort of reaction without even saying anything as to try and disprove me calling BBM and DNA clear.
I would probably be much more interested in doing an actual super read of the game when Sky flipsso I was kind of hoping you'd done some of that super reading during the Night Phase to give the rest of the class a hand in where to go.
I'm just being cynical. And also Realistic considering this should be a balanced game.
Also, could you clarify on who that last line is suppose to be referring to? I don't remember anyone trying to disprove that?
If we assume both Shadoweh and NNR (both targets made very clear both cops are targetting) are town, the scum kill decision made absolutely no sense. Why would you, neglect the cop (me) who can conf townies each night and instead go for the even-night cop (who was obviously out of charges)? In both cases a townie will be confirmed anyway, and the only justification for hitting the less powerful cop is because hes gonna get a guilty.I thought you were targetting Raikaria actually. Rereading you (something I was hoping to avoid forever) doesn't show you saying you would change to NNR. I guess you tunnelling on him means you thought it would be obvious. Considering I appear to be lynching prime real-estate and trying to find your target looks like a nightmare, one clear has more value then the other.
Here's my votecount, have a nice DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
Zakeri (1): Bardiche
Shadoweh (2): DNA, BBM
With 7 alive, 4 votes are required to hammer. There's 51 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140810T21&p0=141&msg=D3+countdown) left in the phase.
SB points it out immediately, but I also sort of noticed Sky wasn't actually trying to provide a read on me. He could have been wanting to form a better read and waited for me to post, but there's nothing leading to anything in the entire post.
Zak
If I wasn't like 90% sure of DNA, I'd be voting you right now.
2/1/7 might be a thing however. The 1 being non-murderous; obviously.
That does complicate things a bit, although I don't think it'll change the outsome of the day/game much. I'd still be pretty set on Zak or Shadoweh.Uh, yeah, I bet you'd say this, seeing as the thing that just got cleared up is you aren't confirmed. You immediately quit trying to play after DNA 'confirmed' you as town. I believe it's your turn to claim. Zak also needs to claim and Bard I think? I don't care so much if he does or not.
Lynch all liars. There's no way I can at all harmonise DNA's actions with Polaris's claims. If we believe Polaris at face-value, DNA lied about his role and he lied about his target, then went on to falsely clear someone whose alignment he should not be able to know, and who he had been suspecting up to that point. I don't buy a Town!DNA lying about his target in order to clear someone he got into a huge slapfight with because he thought they were scummy.I would really love to just lynch the obvious liar but the reason I kept asking DNA if he wanted to clarify his role is DNA lies about his role every game no matter his alignment. >_> I don't think he's ever claimed a fake innocent though and I can't imagine what the fuck he was thinking when he did that.
It'll probably be a waste of time to discuss meta, so I guess that line of thought ends there. Are you guys massclaiming?I've already claimed, we have 4 PR's claimed, I would be... surprised if there's any more power to claim so I'm for it.
I'm some idiot who gets hit in the stomach with a football which is probably why I'm VT.
It looks a lot like you're assuming that I'm telling the truth -> DNA is lying scum -> I am scum? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
B) DNA was lying and you're honest about his role/actions. In this case, DNA's insistence on believing him, that he wasn't lying, and that any claim to the contrary is 'not worth respond to', well... his insistence is very suspicious behaviour from an already scummy playerslot. Your honesty would be appreciated, but DNA's lies are sufficient to mark the slot for death.
Ok, this makes things easier.
If option B is true, there is no way that I am scum. Therefore, I should not be lynched.
One of them assumes Darkninjaabc is pulling weird Town manoeuvres
Also considering no-one CC's roleblocked N1, and people are told if their action did not work, DNA being scum means... either he did not roleblock at all N1 or he... self roleblocked? Because even if he hit a VT N1 he would have no idea that he did such.
DNA/Polly as scum roleblocker makes no sense.
Vote NNRIn fact everything about this post kind of baffles me. He votes me, then notes he got roleblocked visiting ~someone~ (presumably Skypal), but he is surprised by the Skypal track. He's also claims Skypal and BBM are conf town for ??reasons?? in the same post.
I pretty much have no words for this. I got roleblocked, somehow I did not die? And SB was gambitting. Wow.
That said we pretty much have three townie obvtowns at this point. Me, skypal and BBM. The rest is easy.#
cut by SB
whoa shit
whoa whoa shit
Unvote
Vote Sky
this is turning out to be a really fast and furious game, wow
Well, that's kind of tough because up until the last few hours of the phase, the only people who really posted at all were BBM, SB, Zak, DNA and myself. Do we have a five way towny slapfight?
Leaning town on NNR and Raikaria because they both voted in the right place on day 1 even though they both did virtually nothing. Raikaria has the melon thing, I didn't really read in to it yet because *sleep* I'll look in the morning. I don't care what the detractors of Raikaria say, he was right to challenge SB for his vote at the last minute and BBM/SB cost us the no-lynch, not Raikaria. They had two votes, he had one, four plus two is six. DNA should have been lynched and then we would probably be discussing which of the ones on my wagon are scum.
I do assume Skypal is scum, he was caught by a tracker visiting a dead person, that's fucking incriminating. I haven't even bothered to read his posts since then but I'm pretty sure they're a load of crap from what I've seen from the responses.
I can't assume you are scum because you're protected from your above role, and I'm forced to go along with ~rolespec~ because you were [apparently] roleblocked and there's no reason to disbelieve you at this point.
Sure, you could be a lying scumbag who is throwing Skypal under the bus and conveniently also didn't die when you tried to visit him, but that's just assuming a lot of shit now.
We have to essentially waste a lynch on Skypal today because we already know he's scum and therefore don't have to argue making reasons why he is scummy, and the votes on him are essentially voteparks until deadline comes around. Today is about finding his scumbuddy, which only about half the players here seem content on doing.
We have to essentially waste a lynch on Skypal today because we already know he's scum [as opposed to being able to vig him to find his buddy]
In fact ##Vote: Poly
I haven't liked Poly's slot the whole game, from DNA's votes to his antagonism, and his unclear on his role just kind of does it for me. I don't need to be afraid of voting his slot now because of that.
In fact go read the rest of the paragraph in that quote and tell me what you think. That's some pretty serious misrep.
I spent D2 hunting for Skypal's buddy. I was already sure he would flip red, since there was no doubt in BBM's tracking claim, and Skypal didn't have a believable excuse for it.
I don't see a problem with DNA+Sky since Sky was caught D2 and trying to 'bus' his buddy with his unbelievable posts is a completely valid way to try and put distance between them. Anything Sky can do to make his buddy less suspicious is a valid action to keep the scumteam alive
Hey guys let's ignore the confirmed scum and look for someone else! - NNR.
If Skypal were vigged then we could set him aside and hunt for the other scum today.
Also if I'm reading what DNA is saying correctly he almost screwed us over by 'confirming' Sky, and if he's not telling the truth about his role he should come out and say it.Which NNR also astutely pointed out: DNA had initially come into Day 2 saying Sky Paladin was confirmed Town alongside him. Let that sink in for a moment. DNA had intended to claim a clear on Sky Paladin by virtue of his role.
If not Raikaria implies that her role makes it impossible for her to be a scum roleblocker.Sky was trying to bus DNA the whole game, yes, but I still don't see a problem with it. Other scum have played the Ultrabus game before, with good results.
This is also implying that DNA has a legitimate roleclaim, which I am currently assuming he is, and that he was actually roleblocked.
I also would like someone to vig Sky now so he'll be dead and out of the way. I do plan to consolidate on him at day's end to secure a lynch if need be, but my vote is being put towards finding the other scum as well.
I don't think I can get a read tonight, it'll have to wait till morning.
I also would like someone to vig Sky now so he'll be dead and out of the way. I do plan to consolidate on him at day's end to secure a lynch if need be, but my vote is being put towards finding the other scum as well.I wanted to point out this line in particular.
And seriously guys; we know there's a scum roleblocker and since DNA claimed D1 he as a perfectly legitimate roleblock target.
And Sky spent literally all game trying to lynch DNA.
And DNA voted Sky as soon as BBM claimed. [I think he got cut; that explains the reactions in his vote post]
There's no way Sky and DNA are scumbuddies unless the pair literally spent the entire game bussing each other.
EBWOP I forgot to mention why i quoted thatI wanted to point out this line in particular.
Raikaria, really. Think about it this way: Only Scum would know that BBM's results were accurate. He didn't question anything, he just jumped onto it asap. That's really not a point in Townie favour. At best it's null.
And yet despite no Vig happening you still never decided to give up on waiting for this magical vig and vote the confirmed scum.That may have something to do with the interesting situation I woke up to in which SKY SUICIDED TO END THE DAY EARLY
Just kidding, I can't afford to have you get another confirmed town/detective result.
the cop (me in this case) dies and leaves no result and can be easily tempered with even by roleblockingThat last part is important because he doesn't mention the Tracker and Doctor being "tempered with even by roleblocking"; this holds true for all cases.
for regardless of whether i am hooked or not, i probably will be alive anyway due to the doc.There's absolutely zilch in this post that implies he re-read his role PM and understands he won't die due to being roleblocked. Mostly because even after not dying (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117666.html#msg1117666), his explanation for everything is that N1 must have worked out such that a Doc protected him while SB claimed Guarding him, and that a Doc would prevent his role's self-destruct mechanism. Hilariously, he proposes there is "one more junk role" to mess up investigations, even though he has that junk role. He's flat-out pretending he doesn't have it.
as trying to lynch each other Day 2.
Seriously; can you explain why DNA being scum makes any logical sense at all other than 'He lied'; considering his lie makes absolutely no sense from a scum perspective?
How does this stance not make any sense?
Contuation of the lie after D1 is bad still and makes me want to punch him in the face but still; that lie makes absolutely no sense as scum. Why on earth would scum claim a role, and then claim a situation happened where they should have died, disproving their own role? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Is it too late to ask for a tactical modkill on this slot just so you don't waste a lynch on me >_> <_<
But I can assure you that I will not be voting Polaris today barring some outright damning evidence other than 'DNA told a stupid lie that doesn't even make sense to make as scum'.
Fine; we'll do this your way Bard. I'll assume DNA is a moron. And hell; Polly doesn't even seem to want to play after what his slot's done.
#Unvote
#Vote: Polaris
DNA was saying Skypal was "townie obvtown" in his D2 opening post because Skypal had just done Announcer shenanigans overnight.
I'm actually kind of offended that you're implying I don't want to play B(
I instantly lost all motivation to play as soon as i realized how much utter nonsense my slot was responsible for up until now.
I posted my thoughts on post #370, which you might have overlooked. Jeez Bard, did you think all I was doing was refuting your silly logic against me?
I'm not sure where DNA says Skypal is Confirmed Town with capital letters like you're implying, anyway ?_?
That said we pretty much have three townie obvtowns at this point. Me, skypal and BBM. The rest is easy.#
This post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117891.html#msg1117891) (which I quoted earlier on the post I voted Zakeri) isn't really "hey look at the scum that the tracker just got a guilty on" (which you'd think is pretty important) and more making a passing mention of him.
I don't know where else to put my vote, Zakeri, Shadoweh and NNR seem incredibly tame in comparison, and the one thing that stands out to me is Zakeri reactionary play, but even now Shadoweh persists in staying by the sidelines and it's all Normal Shadoweh Behaviour. I honestly think Scum must be among those three then, because if Polly really isn't the Scum, then I can only imagine the real Scum to sit back and let the rest fight over it. It's unfortunate that three people exhibit the exact same behaviour but if that's what we're hunting for, it's what we're hunting for.
someone print this out and frame it
I forgot a very useful quote:
Only two things are infinite; the Universe and Human Stupidity. - Albert Einstein.
That in itself is enough evidence to not completely write off the DNA thing as 'DNA would be stupid to do this'.
No, he doesn't have scumreads.
Day 1 he voteparked on Poly for almost entirely the whole day, finally switching to someone else 2 hours from deadline on SB with a token complaint, before consolidating. SB is now dead so the read barely even applies anymore, and DNA is essentially confirmed town.
Today so far he's gone and voted essentially confirmed scum, which takes about as much effort to find as skimming the thread and looking for the confirmed scum post. Aside from that he's complaining about people voting him, which is equally worthless because his defense is garbage.
Town reads are basically worthless unless you have enough of them to PoE the scum, which Raikaria has not, and anyway townhunting is not a worthwhile (or smart) undertaking anyway.
Raikaria is being accused of doing nothing because he IS doing nothing.
Basically, if there's "so much that can be said about Zakeri" then you really shouldn't have had any trouble choosing Zakeri from the three here, instead of being all wishywashy about it.
Bard has still made no attempt to say why Sky/DNA decided to bus each other D1.
if human stupidity is infinite, i would think it would serve as better evidence to the notion that DNA would indeed be stupid to do that. strange use of a quote, tbh
Bard, are you going to hate me for the rest of the day until I'm lynched, or can I convince you at all to consider other options during the day while operating under the assumption that I have been lynched and flipped town?
also maybe this is looking too far into something small, but NNR's first D3 post after DNA claimed an inno on NNR was like "what is even going on anymore"
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1118284.html#msg1118284
Just gonna wait for the inevitable post where DNA either confirms me as town or makes up some bullshit reason why he didn't target me or got blocked.
I admit in part this comes down to gut, because while I can believe town!DNA panicking and faking Weak to get the lynch off him, even I have trouble figuring out why he would give a fake clear on his biggest scumread.
Bard has essentially been calling out bullshit all day
Obviously the conflicting claims play a weird part in here too. I can't imagine why he would target Zak N2 even if he had a pointless role, he was clearly aiming for me with his bullshit claim, and it would be rather strange if he got tracked doing the unexpected route.
Something bugs me about the way he responded D2 to SB's death, he was clearly surprised that SB had no role, as if he were planning that SB actually had one.You think this might have something to do with the fact that SB's last game post was an attempt at convincing the entire game he was some sort of day-doctor role? Could you describe why this is glitchy for you?
I can't tell if there is a scum intent behind Zakeri's posts or if he really is town helping town out ):
NNR: Pitiful Townie or Criminal Mastermind?Here's a hint: It's not the latter.
NNR's cases have largely consisted of riding on the coattails of others' cases. BBM cites NNR's vote on Raikaria in Day 2 as an example; NNR's vote on me is another example, given that he initially accepted my claims but changed his mind while under the influence of BardI should remind you that Bard had already moved on by that point, in both cases. Hell, it was my case on you that made him reconsider, apparently.
This could be simply a consequence of Bard being loud and annoying, but is it possible that NNR is a scum mastermind taking advantage of others' cases in order to appear like he's scumhunting without actually putting in the effort?I don't even think I read Bard's Raikaria case and I mostly skipped over the slapfight between you and Bard, honestly. It wasn't even motivated to play any more until I realized that I thought [your slot] was scum after all.
Furthermore, he goes an extra step to discredit BBM's opinions. The reason?The reason is because BBM is trying to discredit me and get me lynched, obviously.
Perhaps he is scum, trying to force a mislynch on me.Apparently being a counter-wagon to you makes me scum. Hmm.
Or perhaps he is just confused and disoriented. Is NNR deserving of our sympathy, or should we lynch him?It's quotes like these that make me want to quit the game again :/
NNR has made several supposed "townslips" during the game. First of all, he asks the mod whether scum are able to act and kill in the same night. Secondly, he mentions how SB hadn't been posting, having "forgotten" that SB had been killed overnight. Normally, scum would be aware of both those things, so at first glance it seems unlikely that NNR is scum. But! There is the possibility of scum faking obliviousness as an artificial way of boosting his "town cred", so to speak. The question: is NNR cunning enough to be capable of such a deceptive art? Or is NNR actually just unaware?@Admins: I'd like to request a tinfoil-hat-wearing emoticon please.
NNR seemingly contradicts himself in Day 3: following my claim, he says he'll be set on Zakeri or Shadoweh. However!! Recent posts have revealed that he is absolutely unconcerned with either Zakeri or Shadoweh.It's like I changed my mind after circumstances involving a slot that has had a hugely irritating presence throughout the entire game has suddenly been revealed to have the most bullshit role of all time. How can I ignore that and go for the lurkers that I've essentially been waffling on throughout D2? My desire to play was at rock bottom before DNA was probated, but now it's not, and I'm actually scumhunting now. Go figure!
His comments on Bard and BBM seem out of place as a result, since they are hardly due for a lynch any time soon. What is the reason for this discrepancy? Is NNR just town, faltering on his own opinions? Or is he scum, who never had opinions to begin with?I don't think Bard is scum and I don't think BBM is scum, he's just making a bad case on me. I'm not even faltering on my opinions, I'm just giving a scenario in which BBM could be scum. The thought he is actually scum is somewhat nonsensical and if it isn't you should be reading him as the criminal mastermind, not me.
Just saw this when I was looking over NNR's posts again. NNR, are you seriously making the same mistake as Bard by going "Polaris is telling the truth" -> "DNA is lying" -> "DNA is scum" -> "Polaris is scum"? Because I already had this discussion with Bard B(You guys share the same slot. DNA's shortcomings are identical to your own, and it's perfectly valid to consider his actions when considering yours. I think you're trying to avoid SOMEHOW getting lynched even though your slot has been caught so hard it's redder then a ravenous fleet of human-eating fire trucks.
NNR's post where he condemns Raikaria (town heroism? or scum exasperation?) andWhat about it?
it is extremely easy and convenient for scum to mislynch my slot to death (but NNR could just hate DNA)Occam's Razor applies here. Sometimes the reddest player actually is scum after all.
Can I at least get a statement from everyone voting Polaris that each of you believe Polaris is a Scum Roleblocker, because I will search through your posts all of day three, and every time I post I will rotate between those of you that don't in order, even during Lylo.There's no reason not to assume he isn't a roleblocker. While that's a fallacy, we have no way to trace a roleblocker anyway aside from assuming that BBM and Raikaria aren't roleblockers from their roles. This would apply to Polaris/DNA if not for the fact he has no way now to prove his role and besides that his claims have been hugely unreliable and blatant fabrications so far.
NNR's vote on Polaris is once again a policy vote, and worse it asks leading questions but doesn't give direct answers to those questions as if we're suppose to come up with the answers ourselves in a fill-in-the-blanks scenario.And shouldn't this be the other way around?
##Vote: NNRYou know, its no wonder we both can't post much if you take the words right out of my mouth.
I really super mega ultra deluxe do not like the wagon on Polaris, what is even going on here?
It's like I changed my mind after circumstances involving a slot that has had a hugely irritating presence throughout the entire game has suddenly been revealed to have the most bullshit role of all time. How can I ignore that and go for the lurkers that I've essentially been waffling on throughout D2? My desire to play was at rock bottom before DNA was probated, but now it's not, and I'm actually scumhunting now. Go figure!It's like you changed your mind right after it was revealed you would actually have to work to mislynch people instead of being out of the pool. <_< Saying that Polaris has been 'caught' ignores the fact that Polaris is the one who brought it up in the first place. He caught himself? Damn, Town MVP right there!
You guys share the same slot. DNA's shortcomings are identical to your own, and it's perfectly valid to consider his actions when considering yours. I think you're trying to avoid SOMEHOW getting lynched even though your slot has been caught so hard it's redder then a ravenous fleet of human-eating fire trucks.
It's like you changed your mind right after it was revealed you would actually have to work to mislynch people instead of being out of the pool. <_< Saying that Polaris has been 'caught' ignores the fact that Polaris is the one who brought it up in the first place. He caught himself? Damn, Town MVP right there!It wouldn't be far-fetched for Polaris to use that meta to make DNA look just like an idiot who can't claim, and then clean up using his own different claim to try and clean up the mess.
It's like I changed my mind after circumstances involving a slot that has had a hugely irritating presence throughout the entire game has suddenly been revealed to have the most bullshit role of all time.
Bardykins: Do you remember Choose your Anonymafia? You remembr Mirai Nikki, who claimed lie-detecting vanilizer and flipped Town Tree-stump?
It wouldn't be far-fetched for Polaris to use that meta to make DNA look just like an idiot who can't claim, and then clean up using his own different claim to try and clean up the mess.Why wouldn't he just keep riding the claim that everyone was reading his slot as town for?
6. You will be informed if your action is blocked or redirected.
I didn't think it was important at first, but then I saw your post and something clicked.
Vhaltz told me my action on Night 1 was blocked, which is pretty crucial. I sent Vhaltz a PM to be absolutely sure but he probably won't be on for a while to confirm.
If BBM is absolutely sure that he wasn't roleblocked, then that means his role could only have failed via ascetic/untrackable/godfather or whatever. If BBM tracked Zakeri on N2 and his role explicitly failed and was not roleblocked, then that would really mean that Zakeri is scum.
NNR obviously isn't gonna be voting for NNR.OH BOY LET ME PROVE YOU WRONG, RAIKARIA
@Polaris:
I really hate the sensationalist tone in your anti-NNR posts.
nah jk i'm too lazy to do that again. I was going to open with a Zakeri vote but Raikaria beat me to it and I'm a little paranoid about putting someone to L-1 with Shadoweh in the game.I haven't quickhammered anyone, what the hell is that suposed to mean?
Bard would only be killed over both me AND Raikaria for two reasons:
1) the last scum was afraid of Bard's reads.
2) the last scum wanted to make it look like he was afraid of Bard's reads even though he wasn't.
I'm not really a fan of how Zak is trying to just fearmonger against me and Raikaria without actually building a case of any kind.
I haven't quickhammered anyone, what the hell is that suposed to mean?
I agree with BBM's assessment, its a bizarre nightkill, which actually points to Zak to me since from his position he'd need bizarre to win. After me there'd be no one left tomorrow by his own admission. If Zak is townwe're screwedit would just mean one of the actions is fake. I really hope it doesn't come to that. <_<
not really it's 4/1 and you need two MLs- the bard kill allows you to frame Polaris and ML him and then you ML Shadoweh in LYLO (reverse also applies to scum Shadoweh of course)
okay then Zak who do you think is scum?
I was just exaggerating your whole putting-sky-paladin-at-L-1-without-knowing-and-enabling-his-self-hammer thing :vThere's only one scum left so its not like anyone is working together. Zak being scum wouldn't stop everyone else from agreeing!
Does this mean everyone except Zakeri is willing to lynch Zakeri? `_` I can't help but feel a little weird about that.
The fact Zakeri dosen't even seem to be trying to defend himself or even make a case on anyone else in his defense makes me feel a bit better too. A townie would fight back. A scum in this situation, maybe he gave up.
this isn't really a great argument; last scum alive would also not just give up
The fact Zakeri dosen't even seem to be trying to defend himself or even make a case on anyone else in his defense makes me feel a bit better too. A townie would fight back. A scum in this situation, maybe he gave up.
Well, Day one scum interactions with SkyPal suggest that it's probably not Polaris since he was launching a bunch of ammo at DNA. He was in large part responsible for it being a 1v1 versus himself and DNA, and I don't think scum counted on town lurking out of the first lynch of the game. Quick Votecount (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17179.msg1117259.html#msg1117259) analysis also shows it's likely that Shadoweh is likely scum piling on DNA to save Skypal. She's the only grey vote in the list against DNA (With Sky being Red, NNR being Neon Green, and Raikaria being plain green) with the only other possibility being BBM Setting up to throw Skypal under the biggest bus he could possibly find.
I think this is the most parting incite I'll be able to muster, but in the end I'm slightly more convinced that it is shadoweh, which makes my previous panicking and warning seem stupid now.
If you wanted it you shoulda put a vote on it.I know what you're saying, but I'm surprised I haven't been quicklynched yet. Usually you guys lynch me during my read, and here I've already quit and gone to sleep.
I mean if you're stuck with the perspective of 'these roles i know exist proved themselves so Shadoweh is my only hope' then obviously I'm going to be the only choice left for you. I've always found as scum it's hard to be inventive (unless you count that time we invented countering each other's roles and we all got lynched..).
I don't have anything left to say. Really I'm stuck biting my nails over whether I need to work on a thesis tomorrow or if this is finally over today.
Shadoweh... why have you just been hiding away like; 90% of the game? You've been far less active than usual, not really contributing to much.The short story is I've been busy irl.
Also you claimed Vanilla; right Shadoweh?
Check it out, I'm on my computer now, as evidenced by my transition from OS X to Windows B) (although I was using Chrome on my iPad, so I dunno why it says Safari.)This is what I was drawn to when thinking over why Sky would use an Announce over a Rolecop. Somehow I don't think Polaris talked to DNA, so he probably saw that DNA and Sky had an idiot plan in their QT to confirm each other that got ruined when an actual PR decided to follow Sky anyways. It was actually a decent bet that Sky wouldn't be targetted if you think back on it, DNA outright said he was going to target Sky as a copish role. Considering the two of them nearly got quicklynched seperately (and it makes sense that both lynches failed because the scumteam weren't working together on them), and considering their uh, very good and unique ideas about gambits, a half-assed gambit that goes just far enough to confirm Sky without making it DNA's fault if Sky is actually scum isn't out of the question.
I don't like having to waste time defending DNA's actions, but I figure this deserves a mention. DNA was saying Skypal was "townie obvtown" in his D2 opening post because Skypal had just done Announcer shenanigans overnight.
Just kidding, I can't afford to have you get another confirmed town/detective result.
Had I known what you would've done tbh I would've just gone with your lynch D1 so we didn't have to put up with this shit. You don't fakeclaim as town unless you have a very good idea of what you're doing and are trying to get out of it and even then doing dumb things like confirming players who's alignments you're unsure of is a horrible idea. This isn't even getting into the conduct issues either. Saying like "Raikaria in LYLO = obvious loss" is also generally dickish and if you hadn't blatantly lied about what your role was I'm pretty sure Shadoweh would've been PoE'd easily (not to take away from her win, considering she needed 4 MLs to get there she did well to get it!) but that just kind of fucked up the game. Really.Anyone willing to look beyond the fact that I lied in order to save my skin D1 would know what I am town, and same thing applies to Polaris.
I want to yell at Raikaria for that vote but tbh I can't really blame him for what DNA did so eh (but I can be sad that you blocked the D1 scumwagon WHY.) Polly was super townie though so uh rip ;_;
wait isn't what i am doing essentially what scehzo did? man nnr's gonna be pissed as fuckThis didn't actually cross my mind until I opened up this game over thread to make a post (I still believed deep down in you being scum), but man, you are right on the money of what I wanted to say now.
Cant really be helped town lost this, I accurately readed everybody's alignment and was trying to lie around the town collective for the win but unfortunately bard made me snap.
But I disagree with how fakeclaims are inherently bad, fakeclaiming is as legit a tatic as bussing and rolespec and any other options you take to win the game. Regrettably this fakeclaim turned out to be disastrous because I raged myself out of the game and it wasn't followed through, but to complain in hindsight when town let themselves be blinded by their bias against fakeclaims and voted unreasonably is primarily town's fault, not mine.
Edit: NNR's ragequit was also what. If you think your counterwagon was the other scum why would you hammer yourself over him? :VI couldn't hammer him, Bard unvoted and I was the only other player with a vote down on him.
gg shadoweh. i just think i messed up when i realized the daycop only lasted for that PHASE. So I had to hurry up
Raikaria aren't you in Britain.
Admittedly it is a tragedy that Raikaria was in charge of LyLo, for he failed to consider the D1 scum standoff being impossible (as noted by conqy), failed again to consider the role implications of the tracker and failed a third time by displacing the blame on me (who honestly, matters less at that point) and went on with the silly hammer. But hey, it cant be helped.
This wasn't the case though? You could've used it when you liked, I'm pretty sure the only reason BBM wanted you to hurry it up was because otherwise scum would nightkill you before you got to use it in future phases. In any case, when in doubt about anything of the sort send a PM and as the mod, I may take a while to reply to things depending on whether I'm asleep or not but I don't bite."If you manage to spend all D1 without using any written means of communication, you will unlock a 1-shot ##Daycop for the next phase"
e: that said aside from announcing your daycop target before getting your result was the only thing that you messed up, and even then it was also the responsibility of everybody in the skypal wagon for leaving him at L-1 when you still had to get your result before phase end. You did outstandigly well in this game.
Literally the only thing you said that I agreed with was that Polaris played well.
You see I am in Britain. A little north of abergavenny in wales. Heading to London in the morning. If you are around I could meet you maybe like I met vhaltz and mitsuki in Spain
And yes; I hammered wrong. I hammered the role which claimed basically the same as mine; making me suspicious; and had lied openly about it's role for far longer than needed.
Shadoweh hadn't actually done anything scummy besides lurking most of the game; and I brought her excuse of 'I've been busy'. Should I have thought of Sky selfhammering to stop the Roleclop on Shadoweh because she was his scumbuddy? Yes.
I'm pretty sure I did mention that at one point [Or someone did] but it could have equally been that the scumbuddy was someone else and Sky did not want another cleared member of the town to make the scumbuddy's job harder. At the time; Sky's selfhammer seemed non-indicative of Shadoweh's alignment. Denying town a townclear is pretty useful too.
I'd just come off a scumgame where me and my scumbuddy bused each other from the start quite heavily.
Apologies if the bussing didn't seem out of the question from my perspective.
I didn't read this game that closely so no comments on your play, although from what I saw it was relatively fine. Just wanted to point out that there are clear differences between Shadoweh's play in this game and her typical town play because I think it came up earlier in this game as well. :V
i have the right to be confused and you are needlessly exaggerating this point of speculation and convincing yourself that i am lying instead of realistically trusting me.
Bardiche, your rage is delicious, mostly because I have the full knowledge all this time that you are on a completely wrong trail and is completely emotionally motivated to hatepost and scumread me all the way even to the graveyard,
I feel this fragment pretty much confirmed Shadoweh as Paladin's scumbuddy. If Paladin really wanted to avoid having a townie scan as town he wouldn't go and say that Shadoweh was confirmed town himself, since that's precisely the information he'd want to conceal.This was incredibly scummy of Sky P and I expected to be quicklynched the next day because of it! You might notice a theme in the scum QT of me wondering what day I would lose on. On a scale of terrible overacting, "Oh no can't let you figure out SHADOWEH IS CONFIRMED TOWNIE TOWN" was high up there! I also don't know what Sky did to piss in everyone's cheerios so bad (because I never read his posts) :< Someday I will have non-suicidal partners..
Not considering this because of possible WIFOM would is wrong since Paladin had to act as quickly as possible to avoid having the result outed, so it's not likely that he'd think of concealing information in complex ways.
Bard: If it makes you feel better, I killed you because arguing with you is hard and I didn't think I'd be more convincing then you.This was incredibly scummy of Sky P and I expected to be quicklynched the next day because of it! You might notice a theme in the scum QT of me wondering what day I would lose on. On a scale of terrible overacting, "Oh no can't let you figure out SHADOWEH IS CONFIRMED TOWNIE TOWN" was high up there! I also don't know what Sky did to piss in everyone's cheerios so bad (because I never read his posts) :< Someday I will have non-suicidal partners..
Edit: I almost forgot about this, but the GY reminded me. That part where DNA brought up the role pm formatting was really shitty and on mofiascum people have been modkilled for doing that under the 'don't quote mod communications' part of the rules. Don't do this again, seriously.
But I've been town LVP beforeno he hasnt hes just being modest
no he hasnt hes just being modest