Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Akyu's Arcade => Topic started by: redlakitu on April 17, 2014, 10:52:06 AM

Title: Classic PC (and other computers?!) Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: redlakitu on April 17, 2014, 10:52:06 AM: (post edited for more bonus material at the end)
(thread title edited to potentially encompass other machines, such as Commodore 64, the Sinclair ZX Spectrum or PC-98, because the IBM PC wasn't the only personal computer ever!)
Also click here for an entirely different, console related nostalgia trip (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16733.0.html)

(http://i.imgur.com/6cAVvGB.gif)

OK, the subtitle is not exactly true. Back in the '90s I had a console, a local, illegal clone of the NES. The included cartridge contained Super Mario Bros, Battle City, Duck Hunt and some rather useless, simplistic lightgun games. Additional cartridges were expensive (for the time), mostly offered subpar platformers and often barely worked. That was not enough to keep me interested for a longer period of time. Fortunately, we also had a PC! I grew up playing classic PC games and continued to do so later on. I never really got bored with games because (not surprisingly, given how flexible the platform is) PC games are an extremely diverse lot, even if we restrict ourselves to the older titles.

The early FPS games, for example, are still very playable and enjoyable even today. Wolfenstein 3D, while not exactly the first FPS ever, established the genre's defining characteristics for years and was impossibly fun to play. The popularity that Doom managed to attract - and still holds! - is nothing short of incredible. Then there were the Build engine games, which drifted away from the somewhat abstract levels pioneered by id towards more realistic (but still not quite) locales, at the same time introducing very diverse weaponry, highly interactive environments and charismatic protagonists. And let's not forget the two great multiplayer hits, Unreal Tournament and Quake III Arena, both criticized and praised for very different gameplay aspects, and both excellent.

A bit later on, I came to appreciate PC RPG games in their full glory. My first such game was Fallout, then Fallout 2, post-apocalyptic RPGs both included as a bonus by a domestic gaming magazine. The technology was already good enough for 2D RPG developers to do pretty much anything they wanted, and so Fallout 2 (along with games like Baldur's Gate or Arcanum) had one of the most detailed and complex video game worlds ever made. Then, after a short episode with Diablo II, I discovered Morrowind (can't believe this game is already 12 years old...) and spent two full months, 6-8 hours a day, ravaging its wonderful open world. And much later on, armed with an emulator and better language and gaming skills, I rediscovered much earlier RPGs, like the fantasy/science fiction Might and Magic series, or Albion, a game about two human astronauts crash landing on a planet inhabited by cat-like intelligent beings, and trying to save it from being destructively exploited for natural resources (sounds a tiny bit familiar...). PC games were often unforgiving and less than player friendly, and this is especially visible in early RPGs. I still remember that one time when I irreversibly aged my team to death in Might and Magic III because I insisted on recklessly clicking certain mystery items...

(http://i.imgur.com/2nKNpk7.jpg)

How about strategy games? RTS fans probably know Warcraft, the game that kickstarted Blizzard's fame. A bit later on, players had an excellent choice between the famous Starcraft and Total Annihilation, a game developed by Cavedog, something of an underdog compared to Starcraft, but still nicely balanced, audiovisually excellent and just pure fun. And let's not forget about the early incarnations of Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron! As for turn based entertainment, the military minded players could pick and choose from Panzer/Allied/Pacific/People's General, Steel Panthers, or the later Combat Mission series, but my preference was always the fantasy tactical turn based game with RPG elements called Heroes of Might and Magic III, a game so addictive and perfect in every inch, the experience is simply unforgettable.

Were there any SHMUPs (other than Touhou, that is)? Sure, although that's not exactly my area of expertise, because the two SHMUP games I used to play were so good that I never bothered looking for more. The first one, Raptor: Call of the Shadows, was simply about a mercenary making his way through numerous levels, but the execution was as close to perfection as it gets. And the other one, Tyrian 2000, was just amazingly diverse, every level a completely different environment and experience, creative bosses, loads of secret levels, ships, weapons and even minigames to unlock, and brilliant music by Alexander Brandon. There was even a detailed story, very tongue-in-cheek, but still.

Well, that's what I remember from the top of my head, and hopefully the above is a good enough discussion starter. However, this thread isn't meant to be about my memories; it's meant for YOU. If you happen to remember and enjoy some of the PC classics, here's the place to talk about them. What are your favourites? What do you like about them? Do you still play them?

Some bonus material:
Tyrian gameplay (http://youtu.be/kMgaarmADHU)
Final Doom - the Plutonia Experiment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtjT_rKC5SM)
Total Annihilation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7W5F61-rhY)
Jazz Jackrabbit 2, an outstanding platformer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGITBBoN7Cw)
Heroes of Might and Magic III music (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSoPiffmSYU)
Bill Gates as the Doom Marine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN0K58EfJSg)
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: I have no name on April 17, 2014, 11:05:48 AM: I have but 3 additions (never played any of the games you mentioned, honestly :V).

The first is Lemmings. I'm pretty sure most people at least know of this indirect control puzzler, where you give the lemmings abilities to help them get to the endpoint. I had a lot of fun with this even if I never beat any of those Mayhem levels. (floppy disc game ftw)
The second is The Even More Incredible Machine. Another indirect control puzzle game, this one involving setting up a rube goldberg machine to accomplish whatever goal the level wanted-getting the lemming-esque character Mel home, killing him (in one level I believe), blowing up all the dynamite, hitting a mouse cage, or dropping the ball. Anything went, and the level editor I used to create a lot of really silly contraptions. This one was on a CD but ran through DOS-pretty old fashioned.
The third and final is Chip's Challenge. Another puzzle game, but with some action elements and an active community even today, 20 years later and community made level editors and thousands upon thousands of levels now, even if the original only had 149. I played this game way too much as a kid, and despite that I never actually beat all the levels...until a couple weeks ago when I toppled the infamously difficult Cake Walk. I also never solved Icedeath until a few years ago because it's a sequence of around 60 moves-where one wrong move spells death and back to the start. I had to make a map of the level, work out and write down the path, but I got it! Seriously though if you've never played the game and like puzzle games then go play this game, there's an open-source clone called Tile World that you can just get.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Think Komachi with a Rifle on April 17, 2014, 12:08:44 PM: Might and Magic is a series I miss greatly, and one of the best western RPGs, a genre that basically died in the 2000s.

I agree early FPS hold up well. Oh how I miss secret areas and hidden doors.

No mention of the (point and click) adventure genre?
Myst was a defining game of the 90's
Every LucasArts game?
Monkey island
Day of the Tentacle
etc.

For RTS all of Westwood Studios' games. In particular Command and Conquer and Dune 2 .
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: redlakitu on April 17, 2014, 02:08:48 PM: Quote from: I have no name on April 17, 2014, 11:05:48 AM
Lemmings, Incredible Machines, Chip's Challenge
I guess I was a pretty dumb kid and rarely played puzzle games back then, leaning more for the action-packed ones. I ought to give all those games you mentioned a serious try eventually, but something always gets in my way. Although I enjoy playing Sokoban and Deadly Rooms of Death (I guess it's old enough for this thread?) occasionally nowadays.

Quote from: Think Komachi with a Rifle on April 17, 2014, 12:08:44 PM
Might and Magic is a series I miss greatly, and one of the best western RPGs, a genre that basically died in the 2000s.
[...]
No mention of the (point and click) adventure genre?
Myst was a defining game of the 90's
Every LucasArts game?
Monkey island
Day of the Tentacle
etc.

I heard Might and Magic X was released a short time ago, supposedly true to its roots, although I never had a chance to verify that so far? Have you played it? Either way, I completed parts III and VI and thoroughly enjoyed both. I'm thinking about playing World of Xeen next, but reported gold/experience imbalance problems scare me off a bit.

About point and click adventures, I didn't want to make an already lengthy post insufferably long, plus I never played too many such games when young because English is not my primary language and translated games were a rarity back then. One adventure I distinctly remember is Teenagent, one of the few Polish productions which managed to gain some respect in the West. Also Myst, Myst III and Discworld were awesome, although I only experienced them when I was already 20 years old.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Tamer Anode/Cathode on April 17, 2014, 02:09:52 PM: Doom is magnificent, and I'm amazed how well it has held up over time.

Other PC games that have a place in my heart:

Simcity The original game that launched not just a franchise but a whole genre. Shame what happened to the series nowadays, but I'll still have a lot of memories of planning out zoning blocks and developing transport networks.

Transport Tycoon Developed by the guy who would later go on to create Rollercoaster Tycoon, Transport Tycoon is a fun and challenging business/route-planning game once you get past the learning curve.

X-COM: UFO Defense An amazingly complex tactical game with a lot of mechanics and atmosphere. Even now it still scares me a little.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: commandercool on April 17, 2014, 03:01:37 PM: Baldur's Gate 2 still may take the crown for best video game ever made in my opinion. It's already been mentioned, but that's because it's great. Totally holds up, still hasn't even been approached in quality as a "role-playing" RPG in the Western sense.

Warcraft 3 was big at a specific point in my childhood, but I've since revisited it and found it not that playable. I think I just don't like RTS.

Going back further, I have positive associations with the edutainment Humongous Enterainment titles (your Pajamas Sam, your Fishes Freddi). I have no idea if any of these are any good even for what they are, but five-year-old commandercool seemed to be on board.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: redlakitu on April 17, 2014, 03:17:32 PM: Quote from: Tack Frost on April 17, 2014, 02:09:52 PM
X-COM: UFO Defense An amazingly complex tactical game with a lot of mechanics and atmosphere. Even now it still scares me a little.
I heard various stories about the difficulty levels in the series. Still not sure which one is true, but apparently fans complained that UFO Defense (aka Enemy Unknown) was too easy, so the developers altered the difficulty in the sequel, Terror from the Deep, so that Beginner mode would be equivalent to UFO Defense's Superhuman difficulty. And I can confirm that Terror from the Deep was extremely hard, much too hard for the young me.

Quote from: commandercool on April 17, 2014, 03:01:37 PM
Baldur's Gate 2 still may take the crown for best video game ever made in my opinion. It's already been mentioned, but that's because it's great. Totally holds up, still hasn't even been approached in quality as a "role-playing" RPG in the Western sense.
Allow me to quote your post as an opportunity to make a general statement. @everyone considering posting - please follow commandercool's example and don't shy away from talking about a game just because it's already been mentioned. I intend this to be a discussion thread, not a list thread, so every contribution is valuable, be it a concise description or some nostalgic memories!
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Ghaleon on April 17, 2014, 03:25:53 PM: I was the opposite. I never had a pc until much too late for my tastes. But i had consoles.
That said there are still some old classics i love on the pc.

Master of orion 1-2 (i preferred 2): not just civilization in space, it included a tactical combat feature for your battles that ive only wver seen replicated by games like age of wonders, and given a "lite" version in heroes of might andnmagic. Customizing your own ships was a big plus too... It endless space had moo2's combat instead of that effed up card thing, the game would be god.

Rise of nations isnt THAT old but its quite unique and very fun. And is actually strategic. Imagine civization turned RTS... If you do very well you can ICBM nuke enemy musketeers! How cool is that? =p.

Then there is escape velocity... There sre 3 actually, i liked the first and third most, 2nd wasnt bad, it just seemed to have a bit less stuff is all, and the races were a little too rocks paper scisscors for my tastes. But the series plays like a 2d version of privateer, or what star citizen looks like itll become. The only problem is you can manage too much combat simply by flying in a straight line away from enemies at a distance too far for their weapons, but close enough for yours because they are chasing you and you fleeing them, match their speed and continually fire as they fly into your stuff.

For rpgs i loved most of everything by spiderweb software. Notably blades of exile. They basically made what early dungeons of dragons rpgs should have been like, only usig its own ruleset/lore.

There was even a 2d fighting game i loved, and i dislike fighting games. It was called one must fall. DO NOT PLAY THE NEWER 3D ONE. It had you build robots and upgrade them. Different bots had different movesets, and could obtain varying amounts of each upgrade. You got paid depending on which tournament you did and how well, etc.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: redlakitu on April 17, 2014, 07:33:39 PM: Quote from: Ghaleon on April 17, 2014, 03:25:53 PM
Master of orion 1-2 (i preferred 2): not just civilization in space, it included a tactical combat feature for your battles that ive only wver seen replicated by games like age of wonders, and given a "lite" version in heroes of might andnmagic. Customizing your own ships was a big plus too... It endless space had moo2's combat instead of that effed up card thing, the game would be god.

For rpgs i loved most of everything by spiderweb software. Notably blades of exile. They basically made what early dungeons of dragons rpgs should have been like, only usig its own ruleset/lore.
Master of Orion is one game I completely missed in the old days, which is a shame because it's somewhat relevant to my interest (or, back then, obsession) in astronomy. I heard Master of Orion III is a completely broken game, too, which is too bad. I know there's an open source clone called FreeOrion, but I'm not sure if it's faithful to the original MoO II and worth the time.

As for the Spiderweb games, I'm happy someone actually mentioned those. They aren't popular enough! I only discovered them after they were put up for sale on GOG; haven't played anything with Exile or Avernum in its name yet, but I loved the Geneforge series. It's like Baldur's Gate meets Fallout on low budget, with the huge bonus of making and training your own creatures. Maybe one day I'll bring myself to write a really thorough guide for some of the Geneforge games, like this one (http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout2.html). They certainly deserve it.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: CyberAngel on April 17, 2014, 09:23:31 PM: Pirx, with each sentence of that OP, I didn't know whether to be happy or scared that there is someone who played and liked so many games that I did as well. It gave rise to many nostalgic feelings for me, so I guess I'll leave here my memories while also adding a few games of my own.

FPSs. Goodness, I loved those. Id Software stuff and games on their engines, Build engine games, I had fun with many of them. Ehe, but here's a catch, I was so bad back then that I could only play them with invulnerability cheat on. But that actually helped me to get used to them, and eventually I was good enough to drop that habit. The first game worth noting is The Catacomb Abyss. It's very easy, simple and even older than Wolfenstein 3D. I like its fantasy setting (how many FPS games have it? Not enough!) and the different messages in your status bar depending on location. It's too easy for me now, but I like it for its nostalgic feeling and rich atmosphere for such a simple game (I looked at its sequels and didn't like them aesthetically). Wolfenstein 3D, as was said, is a true classic that is fun to play, even though I have to use saves heavily on higher difficulties. There was also a game named Blake Stone that used the same engine and had a futuristic setting. It was fun and aesthetically nice, even maps were pretty good, it felt like each room had a purpose (cafeterias, storages, computer rooms etc.). Unfortunately, it went overboard with difficulty, I can't complete it on higher difficulties even with saves. Doom is another classic, and I like it so much I did a "start each level from scratch" challenge. I still fire it up now and then, and it's always fun with just enough fair challenge. I stopped liking Heretic because of enemy balance, but Hexen is another game I like to play once in a while. Duke Nukem 3D and other games on its engine were fun with invulnerability, but I don't like the amount of explosions now. Quake, yet another classic, is actually very dear to me. It was the first game where I tried to drop invulnerability. Back then, when I played Hard I ran out of bullets and health on the second stage. Nowadays I can complete it fully without any problems. And I really enjoyed exploring the game's world with the "notarget" cheat, it's fun to see what monsters do when idle. Same with Quake II.

RPGs mostly passed me by, even stuff like Diablo everyone was hot about. But I did play Fallout games. Everyone had the second one because it had more stuff, but I bothered and found the first one too, and I really loved its atmosphere, which was very different from the second game's. I also loved a game named Nox. It's a similar isometric RPG, but it's far more of an action game too. It was pretty fun, if easy once you get the hang of it. Morrowind, while far more recent, is a big part of my gaming experience as well. I just plain enjoyed exploring its huge detailed handmade world, in game or in the Construction Set. Though now I prefer to play Daggerfall because it's more variable, I still plan to return and do a few ideas there one day.

I don't like strategies much, but people around here played Warcraft II and Dune 2, and when netplay boomed it became Startcraft and HoMM III. I personally also enjoyed HoMM II, it's different enough from the third game to have its own charm. Some people around me also hold the first two Age of Empires games dear.

Raptor. Oh boy, I played the demo so much back then, I think I enjoy detailed and/or destructible backgrounds, and maybe shmups in general, thanks to it. Though I don't like the full game, too many enemies with too powerful shots.

Some more words about point-and-click adventures. They really helped with learning English, and were fun and interesting. Special mention to Sierra with its unique brand of humor. I also happened to play a few pirate-made translations of their games, and not only they weren't awful like most pirate translations are, the translating crew added some of their own humor that fit the game nicely. When I compared them to English originals, it turned out both versions were equally fun in their own ways.

Hmm, seeing a mention of a NES clone reminds me of my own childhood situation and brings even more nostalgia out, but I guess it would be out-of-place in this topic. Considering I have some interesting information to share, I think I'll start a separate thread about it a bit later.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Firestorm29 on April 17, 2014, 09:52:42 PM: Lesse here, first for me is Mechwarrior 2. Really liked the idea of being able to stomp around in a Timberwolf unloading LRM20s into some poor Hellbringer. I remember for awhile being stuck in the third Wolf mission because it delivers a bit of a sucker punch (FASA seemed to love to do that alot back then), and I thought I had to do more than I needed to. Would eventually beat it and get a shot at Ghost Bear Legacy and Mercenaries. Problem I had with Mercs was it was the Titanium Edition, these versions of the Mech2 trilogy had a habit of being unstable and crashing alot.

Next up is Battlezone. This PC version takes the arcade first person shooter and turned it into a FPS/RTS hybrid that works out fairly well. Had a secret space war between the US and space commies. It was a it more action than strategy but I felt that it works out well like that. Battlezone 2 added more strategy but a poorly executed single player mode (general consensus is to try and avoid it (which is rare in BZ communities)). The game wound up being more slower to try and discourage rushing and prevent games from ending within a few minutes,

I also got into Command & Conquer Red Alert 2 and Starcraft, I really do enjoy the campy goodness as others call it, I don't have a better term for it, that Red Alert brings with it. And Starcraft brought with it the Use Map Settings maps I really grew to enjoy. Probably would have done more regular games but I was never trained right on how to really play the game good (hey, only use one miner per mineral patch to save your supply for more carriers!).
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: theshirn on April 17, 2014, 10:31:59 PM: I still have memories of some of the bastard games of my childhood.

Like perfecting Episode 5 of Wolf3D except for one crown which was covered by a glitched panel (was fifteen years before I found out where it was), or the screaming noise the Prince made in the original Prince of Persia when you fell longer than a screen or two (and the splat he made at the bottom, unless of course there were spikes there), and the music from Lemmings.

Ahhhhhhh...the sieges from Castles and Castles 2, the early days of WarCraft and Heroes of Might and Magic, the fun of sieges and cauldrons of boiling oil and slaughtering villages in Lords of the Realm 2, the Baldur's Gate games and their unparalleled deep fun, Planescape Torment and its twisty little story, the whole Black Isle catalog really, the ancient Interplay Lord of the Rings games, oh man...
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Ghaleon on April 17, 2014, 11:10:22 PM: Oh heah lords of the realm 2. I was in the mood for that just last year and reinstalled it but the end turn button was missing. I tried compatibility mode and such but nothing would fix it... Was unplayable qq.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on April 18, 2014, 12:00:15 AM: Lego Racers.

Lego Racers.

Lego Racers.

Lego Racers.

Lego Racers.

Seriously, Jegus Crust. This game was reeeaaaalllyyyy fun (and still is due to things) due to the sheer simplicity there was about this game. The car builder was a fantastic one, and no 'balancing' things like the modern games have now (the exception being that bloody Warp Boost powerup) so your fun was shared all the while by the CPUs and player alike.

also, test drive 6 :V
[/size]
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Serela on April 18, 2014, 12:07:34 AM: Command & Conquer series is pretty great. Well, okay, might have to be a little more specific... C&C1 is a bit ergh to get into (it's pretty hard if you don't abuse a bug, and is pretty dated) but Red Alert is actually pretty alright as long as you're okay with it being pretty old as well; C&C2 has balance issues and annoying mechanics in the campaign like spend-30-minutes-hunting-down-every-single-structure-and-unit (which stand still after everything else is dead, why; this is a -major- pain in GDI route since Nod also has stealth bases/units, and the Nod route suffers from having like ONE good unit to use), but, uh. Red Alert 2 is awesome and playing through the C&C3 campaigns is fabulous, and has difficulty settings that -actually cater- to hardcore or casual players because they tweak a lot more than all the previous entries, which used to just makes units cost more and stuff like that. Some of the levels on Hard are actually really, really hard, even when you figure out good tricks to make it easier. TOO BAD THERE WAS NEVER ANOTHER SEQUEL COUGH

Erm in other news. Dungeon Keeper was a pretty cool non-standard RTS, and the Direct3D version is still totally alright looking (as long as you get an edition that can run on modern computers). It has a sequel, Dungeon Keeper 2, which has a lot of very significant tweaks... but it's still cool, just different. It helped make the strategies be less samey, at the least! There's actually going to be a non-official sequel (with the disbanded official dev's blessing) that's coming out soon, War For The Overworld, which was what the third game was going to be anyway.

I could probably think of more if I kept trying but I gotta run
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: redlakitu on April 18, 2014, 07:38:21 AM: Quote from: C.Angel on April 17, 2014, 09:23:31 PM
Pirx, with each sentence of that OP, I didn't know whether to be happy or scared that there is someone who played and liked so many games that I did as well.
Maybe that's something relatively common in postcommunist Europe, where computers were much more popular than consoles (except NES clones) in general? Anyway, I still left out a few things because the original post was getting a bit too long. The most significant one is a futuristic FPS with a bit of survival horror, very complex for its times, System Shock, a game I only played 20 years after its release and it was still able to captivate me with its atmosphere and storyline, the first game to do so since... well, Touhou.

Another is Deus Ex (Warren Spector's masterpiece FPS/RPG hybrid) and its total conversion, The Nameless Mod. This time it's all about the freedom. Freedom to carry out your orders however you want, break things, goof around while still keeping to initial orders (or not). Loot random apartments when the world is at stake, just explore and find secret stuff. And the UNATCO vacuum cleaner bug. And the music!

Quote from: C.Angel on April 17, 2014, 09:23:31 PM
The first game worth noting is The Catacomb Abyss. It's very easy, simple and even older than Wolfenstein 3D. I like its fantasy setting (how many FPS games have it? Not enough!) and the different messages in your status bar depending on location. It's too easy for me now, but I like it for its nostalgic feeling and rich atmosphere for such a simple game (I looked at its sequels and didn't like them aesthetically).
Are you familiar with the earlier Catacomb 3D as well? It was even more simplistic, perhaps even a bit too much, but I enjoyed it up to the point when I got stuck on level... 11 or 12 I guess? Still no idea if it's a bug and the level has no exit, me missing something obvious, or just the authors using holowalls or something similarly cheap.

Quote from: theshim on April 17, 2014, 10:31:59 PM
Like perfecting Episode 5 of Wolf3D except for one crown which was covered by a glitched panel (was fifteen years before I found out where it was)
You mean the wooden secret in E5L8? It was dependent of whether the secret wall moved two or three tiles, and I think that's one of the differences between the Apogee and Activision versions. Very annoying!

Most Episode 5 maps look really tiny in the editor, but feel much bigger and complicated when actually playing them, which probably didn't help figuring that glitched secret out. When I make my own maps, they usually cover most of the 64x64 grid, but somehow they never end up as convoluted as some of the Nocturnal Missions levels (*cough*E6L6*cough*)
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Helepolis on April 18, 2014, 09:40:56 AM: I grew up without a console at first but with a temporary MSX. My elder cousin had an Atari. My dad used to bring the MSX from his work which I heavily abused for gaming.

Atari games on my cousin's (console technically):
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E54GO7YGf7I/TnfvzoKdfSI/AAAAAAAAAjw/HqeLJzCJnII/s200/Outlaw+%25281978%2529+%2528Atari%2529+%2528PAL%2529_93.png)

MSX game example: 80'
(http://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/retro/user_screenshots/saves10/106592/MSX--Road%20Fighter_Jan18%201_07_29.png)

I later on jumped on Sega Megadrive then to a PC.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on April 18, 2014, 11:21:17 AM: Septerra Core was my first actual PC Game, I tried playing it again after so long... Don't play it, the story is actually above average but the fighting system, dungeon design and just about everything else... Isn't. :V

It doesn't help that there was a game-breaking bug that made one boss impossible without cheats that wasn't fixed until like 4 years after release.

Anybody here heard of it? It's an RPG game with some pretty decent voice acting for its time, it's only real downside is stupidly slow combat (The devs themselves told players to cheat their way through most areas due to that) and repetitive dungeons with stupid-as-all-hell design.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: CyberAngel on April 18, 2014, 11:30:51 AM: Quote from: navpirx on April 18, 2014, 07:38:21 AM
The most significant one is a futuristic FPS with a bit of survival horror, very complex for its times, System Shock, a game I only played 20 years after its release and it was still able to captivate me with its atmosphere and storyline, the first game to do so since... well, Touhou.

Ah, yes, played this one back then too. Very detailed and atmospheric. It's funny how you can set enemies to never attack you, sorta like "notarget" cheat, it was interesting to explore the game like that too. I also really enjoyed the cyberspace. Played it again much later, and it wasn't too challenging past the very beginning (seriously, so many weapons and ammo by the end). Except near the end when I picked up dat final shield un-powerup :V Also played its sequel much later. Very detailed and atmospheric as well, I loved the descriptions of all the items. Though it tried to be more RPG, and I don't like the weapon balance - you either need to use a melee weapon a lot, or pick up a shotgun and it stays the main workhorse for most of the game.

Quote from: navpirx on April 18, 2014, 07:38:21 AM
Are you familiar with the earlier Catacomb 3D as well? It was even more simplistic, perhaps even a bit too much, but I enjoyed it up to the point when I got stuck on level... 11 or 12 I guess? Still no idea if it's a bug and the level has no exit, me missing something obvious, or just the authors using holowalls or something similarly cheap.

Yes, I played and completed it. I didn't like it after playing Abyss, mostly because it's impossible to tell which walls are destructible without shooting all of them. Abyss usually used textures and location descriptions to mark them.

Oh, I remembered another classic I'm sure many remember fondly. Descent. Zero-g, six-degrees-of-freedom FPS, very unique and fun. I have no problem with spatial orientation, so I really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: redlakitu on April 18, 2014, 02:39:38 PM: Quote from: C.Angel on April 18, 2014, 11:30:51 AM
It's funny how you can set enemies to never attack you, sorta like "notarget" cheat, it was interesting to explore the game like that too. I also really enjoyed the cyberspace. Played it again much later, and it wasn't too challenging past the very beginning (seriously, so many weapons and ammo by the end). Except near the end when I picked up dat final shield un-powerup :V Also played its sequel much later. Very detailed and atmospheric as well, I loved the descriptions of all the items. Though it tried to be more RPG, and I don't like the weapon balance - you either need to use a melee weapon a lot, or pick up a shotgun and it stays the main workhorse for most of the game.
The customization of difficulty level in System Shock was an excellent idea. If the game was too easy, you could always impose a time limit on yourself and find a balance between thorough exploration and hoarding weapons and actually winning the game (unless you know the game well enough to do both)! I'd love to play the sequel as well, but like with World of Xeen, I'm a bit scared by tales of gameplay imbalance. Reportedly, weapon durability is a major issue and the enemy respawning is completely out of control. While enemies respawned in the first game as well, it was a very limited phenomenon and only a real issue on floor 3. According to comments on GOG, you can have enemies suddenly spawning right behind your back in System Shock 2. Can you verify this?

I'm also going to update the original post with a link to your thread.

Quote from: Sacchi Hikaru on April 18, 2014, 11:21:17 AM
Anybody here heard of it? It's an RPG game with some pretty decent voice acting for its time, it's only real downside is stupidly slow combat (The devs themselves told players to cheat their way through most areas due to that) and repetitive dungeons with stupid-as-all-hell design.
I recall playing the demo a very long while ago, but not much else. It's funny how the most negative review cited on Metacritic complains about... the story and voice acting.

***

Helepolis' post got me thinking... perhaps it's a good idea to extend the thread's coverage to other computers, not just the IBM compatible PCs? If I recall correctly, the Spectrum and Amiga computers were very popular in the United Kingdom, while Ataris and Commodores sold better in the US. And they were all popular in Eastern Europe because of the low price. Not to mention all the elusive Japanese computers which I don't know the first thing about, but many people on this message board definitely do.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on April 18, 2014, 04:14:43 PM: Quote from: Helepolis on April 18, 2014, 09:40:56 AM
My dad used to bring the MSX ~~from his work~~ which I heavily abused for gaming.

I don't mean to slightly change the subject, but now I am curious as to what your dad worked as at the time he had an MSX.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Think Komachi with a Rifle on April 18, 2014, 04:33:51 PM: Quote from: navpirx on April 18, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
Helepolis' post got me thinking... perhaps it's a good idea to extend the thread's coverage to other computers, not just the IBM compatible PCs? If I recall correctly, the Spectrum and Amiga computers were very popular in the United Kingdom, while Ataris and Commodores sold better in the US. And they were all popular in Eastern Europe because of the low price. Not to mention all the elusive Japanese computers which I don't know the first thing about, but many people on this message board definitely do.
The term is PC compatible, PC being the trademark for the IBM machines.
There's a load of Japan only and UK only machines. We are after all on a forum for a series that originated on the PC-9801.

For UK stuff.
There's also he likes of Acorn's (who's biggest legacy is ARM, the chip designer) BBC micro and Electron.
UK was ZX-Spectrum and Commodore 64 with Amstrad and Acorn also competing.

I remember actually using RISC OS based Acorn systems, only Atari systems that made indent over here were the console ones.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: CyberAngel on April 18, 2014, 04:35:00 PM: Quote from: navpirx on April 18, 2014, 02:39:38 PM
I'd love to play the sequel as well, but like with World of Xeen, I'm a bit scared by tales of gameplay imbalance. Reportedly, weapon durability is a major issue and the enemy respawning is completely out of control. While enemies respawned in the first game as well, it was a very limited phenomenon and only a real issue on floor 3. According to comments on GOG, you can have enemies suddenly spawning right behind your back in System Shock 2. Can you verify this?

Actually, System Shock 2 difficulty is quite variable. The thing is, the higher the difficulty is set the less skills you can upgrade, and there's a lot of things influenced by skills. Weapon skills determine which weapons you can use and add a noticeable damage bonus, for example. Weapon maintenance is a skill as well, you can restore weapon durability with special items, but they're limited in amount and their effectiveness depends on your skill. The game has little enough resources to feel like a survival horror sometimes, so such things influence a lot. If you play on Easy, you can tank the whole game without trouble, but anything higher will be less of a smooth sailing.

For enemy respawning, it's not too bad, really. It's more frequent than in the first game, but still restricted to predefined spawn points which you can just keep away from. Enemies usually can't spawn too close to you, but they can do so around corners or behind doors. The worst place is actually not too far from the start, and I guess that's where all the reports about it come from. There's a corridor divided into sections by huge doors, and there is a spawn point in one of sections near the middle. The problem is that once the door closes, the enemy appears and opens the door, so if you just sit there you're in trouble. I don't think it's that bad everywhere else.

One thing I remember about this game, though, is that it required some extensive patching before even working. I got it working all right, but it might be quite a hassle.
Title: Re: Classic PC Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: redlakitu on April 18, 2014, 05:36:46 PM: Quote from: C.Angel on April 18, 2014, 04:35:00 PM
[...]
One thing I remember about this game, though, is that it required some extensive patching before even working. I got it working all right, but it might be quite a hassle.
Sounds good! As for getting it to work, do you mean on a modern system? I can try running it on an actual ~15 years old computer, although, hilariously, it might prove too old and weak to handle System Shock 2 properly, mostly because of a terrible graphics accelerator (Rage). I have a much better card lying around (Riva TNT2), but the computer refused to work with it. I guess I can always lower the details and resolution, like I used to do back then.
Title: Re: Classic PC (and other computers?!) Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: CyberAngel on April 18, 2014, 06:04:12 PM: Yeah, IIRC, I used a special patch just so that it works on Windows XP, on top of patching to the latest version, maybe there was something else too, don't remember now.
Title: Re: Classic PC (and other computers?!) Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: Helepolis on April 19, 2014, 08:27:03 AM: @ Soichiro, my dad was a teacher at elementary school. He had to type documents in an ancient word-alike program and print it on a needle tape-ink printing ancient printer :V He took it home for a week or two so I could play on it. I even remember doing "homework" myself on it, printing non-relevant words at random. And so began my life as a gamer :V

@ navpirx, Commodores and Ataris were both quite common in the Netherlands. We've always been a country who was well on par with the rest of the world regarding technology and equipment. A family member later on purchased a 2nd hand MSX on a black market or what ever later on.
Title: Re: Classic PC (and other computers?!) Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: CF7 on April 19, 2014, 09:28:18 AM: My first PC game was some sort of weird Tetris for MS-DOS with ** thing running left and right around the game field. And that ** bug was quite annoying. It could only jump the height of 2 blocks. It would be stuck in the deep pits and if you had the line, you couldn't even clear it, because if you squash the bug you lose the game. Also for some reason it needed oxygen so, you couldn't just trap it somewhere, because if it was trapped with no open spaces above it, it would suffocate withing 5 figures and die, i.e. game over.
Some time later my dad bought me Metal Fatigue and it was a love at first sight. It's a more or less standard RTS, you had your hover drones what could gather energy from magma fields and it had 3 layers of game map. Ground, where most of the standard gameplay was played. Underground, where you can burrow with special vehicles, so you could harvest more resources from those same magma fields and orbit with floating asteroids, where you could build solar panels to get more energy. While lava fields had finite energy that could be harvested, solar panels gave you unlimited energy, as long as they were on that orbit asteroids.
Also the game had the giant robots, that actually were the main "meat" of the game. You could build them from many different parts however you liked. For example you could make a heavy but slow robot with katana and a shield, or you could make a robot with 2 plasma guns as some sort of mobile turret. You could even make a robot dual-wielding shields, or swords. Also there were parts, that allowed your robots to fly.
There were 3 different sides, or rather 3 corporations. Still each side had its differences, i can't remember how they were called, but basically they were blue, red and purple. Blue was more or less balanced, red was better armored and had better firepower, but was quite slow, for example torso mounted main gun had amazing reach but had quite long delay between shots, more like artillery cannon, and purple was more or less the opposite, they were fast, but quite fragile, but had the most interest combinations of the robot parts, for example invincibility chassis or fast running legs and the like.
And it had more or less standard tanks, fighter jets, bombers orbital cannons and other stuff.

And of course there were more or less usual things, i.e. Doom, Warcraft, HoMM and the like.
Title: Re: Classic PC (and other computers?!) Games - I Grew Up Without a Console
Post by: BasedJay on April 23, 2014, 02:44:51 AM: counter strike 1.6 is still "alive". some of the playerbase moved to go but meh