That goldfox replay is a savestate TAS.
The guy wanted to cheat some reputation to himself, posting it to several boards and youtube.
Some people on /jp/, me included, watched both the videos and the replay. In addition to his dodging style being completely ridiculous - as if he had never seen the patterns before, but got lucky -, there were other things. First hint of something fishy is that the score doesn't exceed 2B. For a person with enough knowledge and confidence to NMNB the game, a basic survival score of 3B should be reached. The condition of NMNB could actually push it well beyond 4B without the player doing anything fancy, given IN's system.
In the videos, there were several idioticly low spellcard records and whatnot.
He also started the run with four extra lives or so. I'd assume someone good enough to NMNB a game played with normal rescources.
The replay site is poorly managed, to put it kindly.
edit for clarification: those in charge appear to have no idea to tell if a replay is legit and are unresponsive to notifications.
That goldfox replay is a savestate TAS.Ah thanks, I just removed it. Yeah, I also suspected, especially by the way he dodged Kaguya's spellcards. But I wasn't sure.
Oh, quite interesting, thank you for the background information!I doubt anyone still moderates that thing. I've marked some obvious EoSD Extra TAS, and some stolen replay, and months have passed and they're still unmarked.
Though I have to wonder, how come it isn't flagged? I'm not overly familiar with that replay site, has no one ever bothered flagging it or is it being deemed legit by whoever is in charge there?
I think there's another one for SA. I haven't watched it to confirm though. It was in a folder than Riz sent me on YouTube sometime last year in response to a comment I'd made.
http://score.royalflare.net/th11/replay11/th11_ud103d.rpy (http://score.royalflare.net/th11/replay11/th11_ud103d.rpy)
UFO:
coa - ReimuA - http://score.royalflare.net/th12/replay12/th12_ud0e03.rpy
TD:
みぞる - ReimuA - http://score.royalflare.net/th13/replay13/th13_ud0522.rpy
ns - ReimuA - http://score.royalflare.net/th13/replay13/th13_ud030d.rpy
coa - ReimuA - http://score.royalflare.net/th13/replay13/th13_ud034f.rpy
ひなぶ@7bitm - ReimuA - http://score.royalflare.net/th13/replay13/th13_ud0602.rpy
savestate TAS.
Did he say what savestate program he used?
Did he say what savestate program he used?He never replied.
And honestly, I couldn't care less what he used. And neither should you.Well, TAS runs made to look legit and be passed off as legit are evil and should really not be done.
And he'd need a slowdown program for that, not a savestating program. Or, if he'd do what Kopiapoa does, both. And a huge amount of patience and effort, actually good TAS replays are not made without tons and tons of effort. Take the TASMAFU PCB Replay for example, or Kopiapoa's EoSD Extra stuff.
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As far as I can remember, Bang Jan would want a savestating program to practice single Spell Cards without having to go through an entire stage.
I think he - and many others of you, when it comes to asking from me - could use some practice in patience. Forget the savestating, sit down on your computer and enjoy the ride, the entire thing.
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Also, discussing cheating methods and naming them is a thing I'd rather not do, and I do believe that the moderating side on this forum chimes with me on this. While the one asking might not have any malicious intentions, someone else could have, and I have no intention in making life easier for possible cheaters.
Probably since TASMAFU is not an abbreviation. It's a replay name. (http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=22998)
Did he say what savestate program he used?
SOMEBODY ANSWER MY QUESTION!
SOMEBODY ANSWER MY QUESTION!
Did he say what savestate program he used?
He never replied.
I personally take these perfect runs with a grain of salt. Cheaters can't be fully eliminated.definitely not any projection going on here nope no sirree
I personally take these perfect runs with a grain of salt. Cheaters can't be fully eliminated.
because those players totally just did it out of random and didn't need to grind their asses off for them. I bet people like 水月 have more playing hours in ONE game than you or I do in all of them combined.
a NMNB run is definitely something only the very best (or very luckiest :V) can achieve through legit means. every such run deserves some hell of recognition.
MoFPWG is the big one, Momiji can almost wall with bad movement, Source of Rains can throw nasty waves, Hydro Camouflage can throw some nasty waves, nothing else is that RNG dependent.
The amount of people who perfected MoF is mostly because in order to get world-level scores you have to perfect almost everything, as dying gives you a huge score penalty.That doesn't mean you have to perfect it, it just means you have to no-death it. The reason why perfecting it is relevant is that not being at 5 power on later bosses costs you a lot of point items.
Would you bother to also ask if he used the hitbox patch on this one as well, since game modifying patches tend to invalidate the run.By that logic almost everything I've done is invalid due to using the English patches.
By that logic almost everything I've done is invalid due to using the English patches.
He does seem to "know too well" where his hitbox is
What does this even mean? If you've played hundreds of hours of EoSD, you'd know where your hitbox is, patch or not.
You're saying "it looks like he used the hitbox patch" just in case he used the hitbox patch?
Wait, so does this mean that all the Royalflare scores of EoSD/etc were done with the input lag from no vsync patch?
I'm not so sure that really counts as a modification, since as far as I'm aware it doesn't replace any files.It does fix the score counter glitches in PCB and UFO. I'd say that's a modification on a similar level as the English patch, in that it's purely graphical but may make scoring a bit easier (the English patch for players who don't read Japanese numbers intuitively, that is). It also has the potential for larger effects on the gameplay, evident by the optional fix to the MoF MarisaB glitch, though of course that would desync replays.
In any event you can disable vsync yourself without even using that, so I doubt the world records were done with input lag.
SA depends on character. I can see ReimuC being easier to to a NMNB with, but ReimuA gets DBDB and that combined with Catwalk are certainly big luck spots.
Regarding Orin, he stalled all of her patterns (I don't remember how long he stalled Catwalk though), to skip the popcorn section (if these were the popcorns Nindel was talking about :V).Stalled the nonspells, captured the spell as fast as possible, if I recall correctly.
Chum: Do you know whether the Japanese players agree with that as well?
pndsng's PCB run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7dDf3st6bQMiduki's MarisaC MoF run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S53lNMV2m0
pndsng's PCB run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7dDf3st6bQ
Miduki's MarisaC MoF run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S53lNMV2m0
I don't think capturing Miko's second-to-last spell should count towards all spellcards because sometimes it's literally uncapturable.
TD Youmu run is up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3OSZyZw9os
This just in, coa manages to defeat SA with ReimuA NMNBs :D
Badass run as expected. Took him a lot of tries and I followed him on twitter through a lot of it. He sometimes lost runs due to depressingly stupid failures like midboss Orin's first non.
Gotta give this guy credit where its due and watch the fruits of his efforts eh?!
http://score.royalflare.net/th11/replay11/th11_ud1235.rpy
Here are recordings on ns's GFW replays
Route A1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eERupzMmlI
Route B1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZxBmbEcWnI
Route B2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq13ss1HYVs
I'm interested in see the NMNB GFW replay as well.
I'm interested in seeing the NMNB GFW Ex replay as well.
There's this one (http://score.royalflare.net/th128/replay128/th128_ud05ee.rpy). It's the only ExNMNB of this game I've seen so far.Thanks, and it is indeed a pretty cool replay. :toot:
Having watched this, I never want to hear anyone say that kagerou midboss should be nerfed again ;)
is there any video or replay for touhou 1-5 on lunatic?Not that I'm aware of. Most people don't play the PC98 stuff too much, and many runs aren't recorded. ZIL has a no-miss (1 hit) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LwoDrMVcXs) for PoDD though, which is pretty impressive even if it's not a NMNB.
Added SOC's LNN on DDC demo. It's really impressive, he even finishes with max resources.LNN?
is there any video or replay for touhou 1-5 on lunatic?I was planning to respond to this earlier, but forgot about it-- it was posted right before the site was down.
LNN?
Same with LLS: it has a few insane parts like the stage 4 midbosses and stage 5 rings, but the Windows games have patterns like that too.Midbosses are actually not that bad on a survival route. They become quite reasonable if you drop items to lower rank, and most of the game can be managed in a similar way. Rings are nasty though. Might be harder than EoSD books and being on stage 5 makes it even worse. Someone with mad reading ability could get a decent cap rate on it though. Yuka's finals can be pretty tough but they're static so at least you can savestate grind them for consistency. And then there's Marisa, but no sane person would play as Reimu for something like this right :V? So really it's pretty much just the rings and then not messing up on the rest. I could see some people here being able to do it without a huge amount of time/effort if they rank controlled. I just don't think anyone cares to actually play LLS w.
let me tell that outside of aya/medicine (and maybe reimu if you're really good), PoFV isn't possible to even no miss. eiki won't take any planned hits, so unless your character is really good at hitting the AI, you won't live long enough to beat her. you won't be able to do it with, let's say, marisa. despite being overall harder, PoDD is probably easier to NMNB. no damage is a ridiculous challenge so I wouldn't really count getting hit as a miss.
no damage is a ridiculous challenge so I wouldn't really count getting hit as a miss.At least among games that have a damage system, almost every "perfect" challenge I know of has no damage as one of the criteria (sometimes the only condition for "perfect", sometimes not), as opposed to just not dying. (Either that or a "perfect" is something completely unrelated, like 100% completion.) So I wouldn't consider a NMNB that takes damage in PoDD/PoFV to be "perfect". Of course, it'd still be a really good (and probably really lucky as well) run.
I wonder if PoFV no damage is doable with one of the broken characters...
I'd also arguing a run using level 2s to be "perfect" at all. the only thing I'd consider "perfect" for PoFV would be no miss (maybe no damage if you're crazy), no charge and no bomb. so just dodge and shoot, pretty much.But that's ridiculous. It's a fundamental aspect of the game, akin to GFW's ice shield. (I might even go so far as to say that it's the same for bombing in PoDD, given the game's tendency to give you humanly impossible situations, and the lack of any penalty for using the bomb in the first place.)
what kill the AI with reimu isn't it entering the rings, but her ying yang orb.She has a variety of things that can work. The most effective is by far her level 3 spell, though the yin-yangs and the homing boss attack also work. The level 2 almost never hits fast characters, but it's not useless. Of course, all of those things can work in conjunction with each other.
I might even go so far as to say that it's the same for bombing in PoDD, given the game's tendency to give you humanly impossible situations, and the lack of any penalty for using the bomb in the first place.Except bomb penalties weren't introduced until MS...
I am not sure about that Chirpy. The stuff you are thinking about isn't actually that hard to do. I watched the replay and the UFO usage didn't make things very much easier. Perhabs it might've made the spams on Stage 3 more manageable but those are not too bad anyway. I believe that carrying out a proper UFO route and maintaining NMNB is considerably harder than just NMNBNV'ing the stage portions.Well that much is obvious. I was more referring to usuing UFOs for survival/bullet cancels when I posted that. And god dammit, it is hard :<. The spam is not the worst of it though, it's those damn fairies right after Ichirin. I'm probably the only one who finds them hard though...
While you're at it. I think ASL's TD LNNN run should be put on the list as well, with an asterisk stating that a spell was timed out. The NMNBNT condition was filled, after all.
- On top of that, if the "time-out" clause was to be fully enforced, the run would be disqualified from stage 3, since he timed-out Yuugi's second non, even if it was for score
Just a bit of a hypothetical and silly thing but what if, hypothetically, someone made a NMNB run of UFO... while pacifying every spell in it. (yeah i know)
Would it be discounted for failing spells too? :V
☯♥♡PERFECT♡♥☯
Okay, I watched the SA MarisaB run more calmly, and now I get what Mino said. The run's impressiveness made me rethinking about the "fullcap policy" I've beenannoyinglykeeping, and there's a few points that could possibly support this case or similar ones:
-He didn't explicitly fail the spellcard since the didn't fight it at all, which is somewhat similar to safespotting a spell, which is common for BoWaP on the perfect runs.
-The popcorn spam can be as hard or harder than Catwalk, in an overall view (pretty much only MarisaB or ReimuC would trivialize it, or very maybe ReimuA).
-MoF+ games doesn't seem to track, or take spellcard captures too seriously given there isn't the statistics screen after the run anymore, but that also goes to other stuff like misses or bombs so idk if this counts.
-One exception like this wouldn't be really a problem for other games since the only other tough-enough-worth-skipping-the-spellcard is Stage 5 Nazrin, but timing out the nonspell won't skip Greatest Treasure.
Discuss.
and you miss out on a ton of juicy graze! :ohdear:
Bloody awesome! :o
えなめる did pretty much what I hoped to do with MarisaB (and a ton more!), although I decided to go with ReimuA as I too would skip Catwalk were I to use MarisaB :derp: (and I want to NMNB with all spells captured :3).
MarisaB and ReimuC (and MarisaA too!) have a pretty easy time with the Popcorn section compared to ReimuA, B or MarisaC. It's significantly easier/less of a risk/gamble than Catwalk once you know what to do! :D
I don't think it's quite right to having safespotting BoWaP on the same level as skipping Catwalk, BoWaP is memorisable, but doing it legit increases the time you spend on it (portions of your shot miss Satori more frequently compared to the safespot where your shot can constantly hit her fully) and you miss out on a ton of juicy graze! :ohdear:
I think it would be best to include all SA NMNBs, but also add as a note how many spellcards they captured (or pretty much what you've done already! haha~)