Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: game2011 on August 28, 2012, 04:50:59 PM
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Am I the only one around here who would prefer that an official Touhou TV series be done using CGI rather than being 2D animation? I think most people would prefer it to be in 2D.
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Official Touhou series sounds really icky. Like a cash cow.
Also, 3DPD.
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If one were to even be made I'd like it to be 2D animation, there's way too much 3D CGI animation stuff being made here (well how im seeing it) and it's bugging me.
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Official Touhou series sounds really icky. Like a cash cow.
Also, 3DPD.
Yeah, no official series please, it'll divert attention away from the games and yardiyardiyar (I think ZUN said something about this, someone might find it).
The fan animations (PVs etc.) are alright though, they're generally quite enjoyable to watch .
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CGI animation done outside major Hollywood studios always turns out looking soulless and empty. Look at Green Lantern TAS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs3-N5ch98w), for example. It's kind of gross.
Besides, anime styles don't fit in 3D. Behold. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXlnm7-pnFI)
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Then again now that I think about it, not all CGI Touhou stuff is horrible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDH76B5or54&list=FLQCgu9UyKG0xEjZJIord9PA
is pretty damn amazing.
there's way too much 3D CGI animation stuff being made here
Yep, it's 'cause CGI is cheaper and thus makes better quick buck.
Yeah, no official series please, it'll divert attention away from the games and yardiyardiyar (I think ZUN said something about this, someone might find it).
The fan animations (PVs etc.) are alright though, they're generally quite enjoyable to watch .
Agreed. I haven't watched Maikaze, but I hear it's good. The one from the other group I can't remember with PCB story was sweet.
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No, that's still awful.
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Then again now that I think about it, not all CGI Touhou stuff is horrible.
Out of curiousity, have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx3Tq0QLoOU
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Yeah. The graphics are a bit blocky and clippy, but it's a good one.
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Yeah. If the graphics were a bit nicer-looking, that would be great, but I don't care what medium is used for a Touhou anime as long as the fights look glamorous.
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There's always this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMeDKLc1KRc), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxkAxYFCdQg&feature=related) and this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byfXri2KEmY)
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When it comes to this:
I don't care what medium is used for a Touhou anime as long as the fights look glamorous.
...though many of them could use more background details and probably a few stylistic changes.
now where's my Source Filmmaker-compatible Touhou models damnit
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Official Touhou series sounds really icky. Like a cash cow.
Yeah, no official series please, it'll divert attention away from the games and yardiyardiyar (I think ZUN said something about this, someone might find it).
The fan animations (PVs etc.) are alright though, they're generally quite enjoyable to watch .
I would have to disagree with this. I really want a Touhou anime that fleshes out the characters and Gensokyo even more, like a slice-of-life anime. But of course, there will be a couple of episodes that are about the incidents, so there would be action too.
Also, I disagree with the reasoning "the anime would divert the fandom's attention from the games" because let's face it, the games only come out like once a year or so and they're really short. Wouldn't it be better if there's a Touhou anime that we can wait for every week?
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The problem with an official series for me, is that it pretty much sets character personalities in stone, one of the fun things I find about Touhou is that there are multiple portrayals of one character (because of the lack of appearances or flanderization) so it keeps things interesting in fan-woks and well it's nice trying to find out how characters are in Canon through the books or interpretations compared to fan-works and even with that it can be played around with so it's not entirely definite.
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The problem with an official series for me, is that it pretty much sets character personalities in stone,
You can also say the same for the Touhou comics. In my opinion, they have quite a big impact on setting some of the characters' personalities in stone.
But really, I don't think canon will stop people from making out-of-canon characterizations for the characters.
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You can also say the same for the Touhou comics. In my opinion, they have quite a big impact on setting some of the characters' personalities in stone.
But really, I don't think canon will stop people from making out-of-canon characterizations for the characters.
But the only one that went way off the games was the Inabas, making Eirin a sadist (fanon bs), Reisen a buttmonkey (fanon bs) and Kaguya, a lame moeblob (what the hell was that?). Even then, it's questionable if we can even consider it canon, since it has some blatant discrepancies with previous works.
Anyway, if there must be an animation, I'd have it 2D, with the characters drawn all round and fluffy like Zun makes them.
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So? I don't really see your point. That Inaba comic was a gag comic anyway so you shouldn't take it seriously.
By the way, that comic was hilarious. I like it a lot.
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My point is that they can't "set the personalities in stone" when they're just repeating the games. The ambiguity is still there.
I take the Inabas seriously because it's an official work, supposedly canon until god speaks.
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Just remember that ZUN only gave pointers for the Inabas, not directly writing it.
So, if there's an anime, you want it to be like the games?
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Giving pointers or not, it is still official work, so it would be canon. Unless there are direct contradictions with other official works, Inabas is as good as any official work.
But the only one that went way off the games was the Inabas, making Eirin a sadist (fanon bs), Reisen a buttmonkey (fanon bs) and Kaguya, a lame moeblob (what the hell was that?). Even then, it's questionable if we can even consider it canon, since it has some blatant discrepancies with previous works.
I must disagree with most of what is said here.
Reisen deserves quite a bit of the things that happens to her. In canon, she is fairly obnoxious to the rabbits, who are supposed to be her equals.
I have no idea how you got the idea from Inaba of moon/earth that Kaguya is a lame moeblob. I am sure it does not protray her as such there.
As for discrepancies with previous works, there are few discrepancies. I would like to request examples of these so called discrepancies.
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I don't find anime transcends well into 3D personally. But if it was done right, I'd give it a look. However, I think I'll always prefer line drawings.
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I have no idea how you got the idea from Inaba of moon/earth that Kaguya is a lame moeblob. I am sure it does not protray her as such there.
You'd be right. Kaguya is exactly like her canon self of what we've seen in Imperishable Night; (Wants to be) Outgoing, good-natured, curious about the world around her, while still being stuck in Eientei. The comic just portrays a more humorous view of her.
Also anything about Reisen not being a buttmonkey is a total LIE. If you were to look at any ending involving Reisen, you'd see she's being mocked, looks plain crazy due to unfortunate circumstances or other whacky stuff.
And about Eirin, she's not sadistic per se, more like a mad doctor who is also a complete genius. I mean, you gotta test those medicines right?
And finally, about a possible Touhou anime, I'd prefer 2D, but I wouldn't mind 3D. Even though I'm against the idea of having a Touhou Anime; We already have a lot of people asking ''what anime is this?'' on every touhou related videos, we don't need people to answer them ''It's a super cool anime! Also they made a spin-off bullet hell game!'' That would KILL ME.
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Eirin actually goes around casually threatening or mentioning the offing of characters several times in official works, too (such as SSiB where she has an arrow at Patchouli's back, or CiLR where she mentions that one stray rabbit from the moon won't be missed if they end up having to eliminate her in regards to Reissen II), so the whole "sadistic" (in terms of "I will kill you" stuff) thing IS canon even without Inaba, though of course Inaba exaggerates it a bit.
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Giving pointers or not, it is still official work, so it would be canon. Unless there are direct contradictions with other official works, Inabas is as good as any official work.
I must disagree with most of what is said here.
Reisen deserves quite a bit of the things that happens to her. In canon, she is fairly obnoxious to the rabbits, who are supposed to be her equals.
I have no idea how you got the idea from Inaba of moon/earth that Kaguya is a lame moeblob. I am sure it does not protray her as such there.
As for discrepancies with previous works, there are few discrepancies. I would like to request examples of these so called discrepancies.
Things like Eirin getting sick (An immortal's body is immune to all disease, by Mokou), Toyohime wanting to take a rabbit to the moon (which would "taint" their precious, pure moon), Kaguya getting stuck on bamboo, and being physically unfit (she's supposed to be physically strong, according to Marisa), getting "fat" ("Souls don't have a particular size, so they can freely create another body wherever they like", by Alice), the weaponry in Kourindou.
On Reisen: she's not equal to the rabbits.
"Tewi Inaba acts as leader of the rabbits, but she gives orders to Tewi
This makes her the de facto leader of the rabbits."
On Eirin: threatening or killing someone (even worse if they're just "tools", like the rabbits) is not being sadistic. Bdsming Reisen to the point where she can't get up in days, is.
And finally, Kaguya... not actually arguing anything here, just stating my opinion. Almost all of her "screen time" is about her being cute, silly or naive, in such a childish way that I find it hard to not think of her as the epitome of moe. All of her background, like living for over a millenia, being a good talker with an "outdated manner of speech", her feud with Mokou, her supposed "actions" in instants was ignored or altered by the author (which is also true to many other characters... but I don't want to extend this too much).
Tbh, I don't think that those are the characters ZUN had in mind. But, as lightdreamer said, he didn't actually wrote it.
Just remember that ZUN only gave pointers for the Inabas, not directly writing it.
So, if there's an anime, you want it to be like the games?
Yes. Complementing what I was saying above, if there's one, may ZUN write the scenario, like he's doing in Ibarakasen.
Just adding this in, I don't hate the Inabas, it was a good read - I just dislike the idea that what's there may be definitive, to be taken into account if there's another work with the Eientei people.
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I'd like to think of Kaguya being physically powerful as... only being physically powerful and not physically fit. She can easily lift a boulder, but she can't do push-ups properly.
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I'd like to think of Kaguya being physically powerful as... only being physically powerful and not physically fit. She can easily lift a boulder, but she can't do push-ups properly.
She doesn't need to do push-ups, Eirin is there to lift her up and down.
To be honest, I think the most changed part of Kaguya's personality was the whole hatred she has toward Mokou; In regular Touhou, they fight to the death fairly often, and they hold a burning hatred for each other, Kaguya even going as far as sending other people to ''kill'' Mokou for the sake of inflicting her pain. In Inaba of the Earth and Inaba of the Moon, it's a tsundere relationship.
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Yes. Complementing what I was saying above, if there's one, may ZUN write the scenario, like he's doing in Ibarakasen.
That was what I meant actually. Of course it should be written by ZUN.
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I don't like 3D animation much unless it's graphics in a video game. Like tales of. Then it looks alright. I did however like the look of the Reimu vs. Utsuho dogfight.
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Things like Eirin getting sick (An immortal's body is immune to all disease, by Mokou)
This is inaccurate. We don't even know if Eirin is immortal or not. There is no canon proof on this part.
Toyohime wanting to take a rabbit to the moon (which would "taint" their precious, pure moon)
Does not contradict with canon. They do have a ritual cleaning in which you can clean impurities. Lunarians used to be humans from earth. They would have "tainted" the moon ages ago if there was not a way to cleanse themselves and others.
Kaguya getting stuck on bamboo, and being physically unfit (she's supposed to be physically strong, according to Marisa), getting "fat" ("Souls don't have a particular size, so they can freely create another body wherever they like", by Alice), the weaponry in Kourindou.
Kaguya does not care enough to destroy the bamboo. It isn't like being stuck hurts her.
That said, let's not forget that it isn't that she isn't physically fit, it is that she is psychologically lazy. She can easily do a stretch that is impossible for even fit people, but can barely touch her knees with her hands.
Everyone has a soul, souls don't have a particular size, but the body has a particular size. If souls can freely create a size, then anyone, not just Kaguya can be of any size they want. What the Hourai Elixir does is causes the soul to become invincible. It doesn't actually change a soul's state.
What about the weaponry in Kourindou? Guns is not something that is out of place. Those are probably weapons that imaginative designers tried to do, but failed, because of impraticality and thus it fell into fantasy lands.
On Reisen: she's not equal to the rabbits.
"Tewi Inaba acts as leader of the rabbits, but she gives orders to Tewi
This makes her the de facto leader of the rabbits."
This is false. Reisen cannot give orders to Tewi. Eirin never gave Reisen the authority to do this. However, Reisen takes it upon herself to order Tewi, even though she isn't supposed to. Her thinking is probably on the lines of since she is Eirin apprentice and she believes Eirin is the boss, then she would have authority over the rabbits. This is untrue and we know this from canon, not just from Inaba of Earth/Moon.
If you check other canon sources, like Cage in Lunatic Runagate, Eirin does not order Tewi around. When Eirin first met Tewi, they made an agreement, not that Eirin was Tewi's boss. The relationship between Eirin and Tewi are of equals, not of a superior and a subject. Eirin does not actually have authority to order the rabbits around, only Tewi can do that.
Here is the link: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/First_Chapter
On Eirin: threatening or killing someone (even worse if they're just "tools", like the rabbits) is not being sadistic. Bdsming Reisen to the point where she can't get up in days, is.
As I have already mentioned, Reisen deserves a lot of this. Refer to that link to see why.
All of her background, like living for over a millenia, being a good talker with an "outdated manner of speech", her feud with Mokou, her supposed "actions" in instants was ignored or altered by the author (which is also true to many other characters... but I don't want to extend this too much).
Mokou may have a fued with her, but for Kaguya, it is just fun and games. This is verified in Cage in Lunatic Runagate.
I don't see anything ignored, you may want to check out Cage in Lunatic Runagate if you are seeing some differences in characterization.
Yes. Complementing what I was saying above, if there's one, may ZUN write the scenario, like he's doing in Ibarakasen.
Just adding this in, I don't hate the Inabas, it was a good read - I just dislike the idea that what's there may be definitive, to be taken into account if there's another work with the Eientei people.
I am saying that there is not much wrong with the accuracy. Yes, some stuff are inaccurate, but most are good. Some get verified in other canon sources.
As I have already mentioned, Cage in Lunatic Runagate talks about Eientei and I believe Zun wrote that.
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This is inaccurate. We don't even know if Eirin is immortal or not. There is no canon proof on this part.
Holy crap, I thought I was the ONLY person who knew that! Eirin isn't immortal, she's just freaking old! I seriously have no idea at all where people get the whole ''Eirin is immortal'' thing. Eirin got banned from the moon because she made the Hourai elixir, Kaguya got banned for drinking it. Lunarians have crazy lifespans, not immortality.
Mokou may have a fued with her, but for Kaguya, it is just fun and games.
It's hilariously sad for Mokou. I mean, Mokou sees it as an eternal revenge full of death and suffering for causing her father's death, Kaguya is pretty much just playing around. (In a rather morbid way, but still)
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Holy crap, I thought I was the ONLY person who knew that! Eirin isn't immortal, she's just freaking old! I seriously have no idea at all where people get the whole ''Eirin is immortal'' thing.
I think it's because she's one of the "big bosses" from IN and everyone else is immortal - seems easy to generalize and throw her in with the rest... Also, with the whole Hourai Elixir; it's probably assumed by most who think she's immortal that she already took it herself a long time ago (even though nothing canonical even hints at anything like that).
It's hilariously sad for Mokou. I mean, Mokou sees it as an eternal revenge full of death and suffering for causing her father's death, Kaguya is pretty much just playing around.
It's ironic that they'll probably end up stuck with one-another eventually. Being immortal and all that. Who knows, Gensokyo's final days may be of them fighting (or at peace?) through an empty, lifeless wasteland eternally. Which is kind of grim and sad for the both of them.
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Yeah, that's the really sucky part of immortality.
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In regards to Eirin being immortal... I didn't believe that at first, but supposedly, some people here claims that after looking into more accurate translations regarding Ghost Team's ending, Eirin did take the elixir and become immortal. The whole "immortal can't go to the netherworld" thing actually refers to immortals can never go there naturally, meaning going there by dying, but they can still go there by themselves.
With what I heard here, I don't know what to believe anymore... And there's also the Eirin being a goddess thing...
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That is an argument made by how Eirin could be immortal. However, there is no conclusive proof that it is the case.
The ghost team ending can just be them bantering, like they usually do.
I think the whole reason why Eirin could be a goddess is because she is supposedly similar to Omoikane. Considering how old she is, I wouldn't be too surprise if that were true. I think Yorihime and Toyohime are supposedly goddesses, so Eirin could very well be one.
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In regards to Eirin being immortal... I didn't believe that at first, but supposedly, some people here claims that after looking into more accurate translations regarding Ghost Team's ending, Eirin did take the elixir and become immortal. The whole "immortal can't go to the netherworld" thing actually refers to immortals can never go there naturally, meaning going there by dying, but they can still go there by themselves.
With what I heard here, I don't know what to believe anymore... And there's also the Eirin being a goddess thing...
Don't think too much about it. This part of Touhou canon is exceptionally fuzzy. Just go with whatever you want to believe.
That is an argument made by how Eirin could be immortal. However, there is no conclusive proof that it is the case.
The ghost team ending can just be them bantering, like they usually do.
I think the whole reason why Eirin could be a goddess is because she is supposedly similar to Omoikane. Considering how old she is, I wouldn't be too surprise if that were true. I think Yorihime and Toyohime are supposedly goddesses, so Eirin could very well be one.
If the Lunarians are gods, then faith is what makes them tick. And I've yet to see them bringing up this "faith" problem even once.
The question is, will they disappear when people stop believing in them? I seriously doubt the answer to this is "yes".
That's why I always think of them as mere humans who gain superpowers because of their purity. We could call them the more "enlightened" version of humanity.
Also, does anyone here know whether Lunarians are immune to diseases or not in virtue of them being Lunarians? I prefer to make them immune to diseases but there's that whole thing of Eirin being a doctor/Lunarian sage who watches over Earth in the old times.
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Lunarians can live forever, but they are still susceptible to dying from illnesses, injuries, hunger, lack of air, etc. They just can't die from old age.
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Lunarians can live forever, but they are still susceptible to dying from illnesses, injuries, hunger, lack of air, etc. They just can't die from old age.
Hmm, perhaps we should look at this from another perspective. Maybe there are no diseases in the Moon because of its pure environment.
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Hmm, perhaps we should look at this from another perspective. Maybe there are no diseases in the Moon because of its pure environment.
IIRC that's prettymuch the case.
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Lunarians can live forever, but they are still susceptible to dying from illnesses, injuries, hunger, lack of air, etc. They just can't die from old age.
Hmm, perhaps we should look at this from another perspective. Maybe there are no diseases in the Moon because of its pure environment.
iirc It is the moon's purity that makes the Lunarians ageless as well. A Lunarian wouldn't have such longevity on Earth.
By the way, here are the threads that cover the IN mistranslations:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8344.msg836584.html#msg836584
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12776.0.html
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iirc It is the moon's purity that makes the Lunarians ageless as well. A Lunarian wouldn't have such longevity on Earth.
By the way, here are the threads that cover the IN mistranslations:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8344.msg836584.html#msg836584
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12776.0.html
So, are they already added to the wiki yet?
About their longevity on Earth, I'm curious. How long would it take for a Lunarian to become "corrupted" if he/she stays on Earth?
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Don't know. But Eirin could have created a medicine to counteract this aging issue.
I believe Kaguya mentioned that they(herself, Eirin, and Reisen) have been tainted by impurity of the earth and that is a good thing.
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Wonder why they view it as a good thing.
And if Eirin has a medicine that stops aging, would she sell it in the Human Village?
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Wonder why they view it as a good thing.
Prolly cause Kaguya is more down to earth than the other lunarians.
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down to earth
Oh you.
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Wonder why they view it as a good thing.
And if Eirin has a medicine that stops aging, would she sell it in the Human Village?
That would make Gensokyo overpopulated and cause lack of food and houses for the poor humans :P
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Eh, it'll be a while before that happens. Gensokyo is quite large after all.
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>>>Gensokyo
>>>Limited space
>>>Obeying the laws of physics
>>>laughingtewi.jpg
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*facepalms* Silly me; *psycho Sanae face* Can't let common sense drag me down! :]
Though, food would be a problem, it's actually a matter stated numerous time in various written canon material.
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*facepalms* Silly me; *psycho Sanae face* Can't let common sense drag me down! :]
Though, food would be a problem, it's actually a matter stated numerous time in various written canon material.
Yeah, but even then THAT goes through a pair of mountain goddesses and other assorted oddballs instead of dealing with such puny things as the laws of thermodynamics.
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Yeah, but even then THAT goes through a pair of mountain goddesses and other assorted oddballs instead of dealing with such puny things as the laws of thermodynamics.
True. But ya know, if anything went wrong, Yukari can just fool with the borders again to prevent Eirin's shady medicine to accomplish the plan of the Moriya shrine conspiracy the taoists thought of.
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True. But ya know, if anything went wrong, Yukari can just fool with the borders again to prevent Eirin's shady medicine to accomplish the plan of the Moriya shrine conspiracy the taoists thought of.
TOUHOU 14: IN WHICH ANOTHER BUNCH OF SCHEMING MORONS IS INTRODUCED AND EVERYONE FORGETS WHAT THEIR ORIGINAL PLAN WAS, LEAVING GENSOKYO TO DESCEND INTO AN ENDLESS CASCADE OF TROLLING, Part the 1st.
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If the Lunarians are gods, then faith is what makes them tick. And I've yet to see them bringing up this "faith" problem even once.
The question is, will they disappear when people stop believing in them? I seriously doubt the answer to this is "yes".
That's why I always think of them as mere humans who gain superpowers because of their purity. We could call them the more "enlightened" version of humanity.
Also, does anyone here know whether Lunarians are immune to diseases or not in virtue of them being Lunarians? I prefer to make them immune to diseases but there's that whole thing of Eirin being a doctor/Lunarian sage who watches over Earth in the old times.
ZUN says in the SOPM interview that gods live on the moon, so even if most of the Lunarians are merely super-humans (which I agree with), they're living alongside real gods. Throw in the "Eirin is one of them" line and it's seems very plausible to me that Eirin is a god, even if the other Lunarians we know aren't.Eh, it'll be a while before that happens. Gensokyo is quite large after all.
Gensokyo is quite small, isn't it? Byakuren even mentions that she thinks they'll have food supply problems because there isn't enough farmland.
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ZUN says in the SOPM interview that gods live on the moon, so even if most of the Lunarians are merely super-humans (which I agree with), they're living alongside real gods. Throw in the "Eirin is one of them" line and it's seems very plausible to me that Eirin is a god, even if the other Lunarians we know aren't.
I'm still not convinced that Eirin's a god. Is Omoikane still famous in the Outside World, that is assuming it's her "god" identity?
Gensokyo is quite small, isn't it? Byakuren even mentions that she thinks they'll have food supply problems because there isn't enough farmland.
I think that's more because the humans don't dare to cut down parts of the forests and disturb the youkai to build more farmland.
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I'm still not convinced that Eirin's a god. Is Omoikane still famous in the Outside World, that is assuming it's her "god" identity?
Well, she could hardly be anyone else if she's a god, given that Omoikane's full name is "Yagokoro Omoikane". I would say Omoikane's definitely pretty famous (he gets listed as a "major Shinto god"), but it's hard to say how fame would translate into faith. We haven't seen much explanation of the "higher gods" at all though, which would presumably include Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, and Omoikane. Maybe they work somewhat differently.
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I feel like I'm going way off topic... What am I arguing foooor.
This is inaccurate. We don't even know if Eirin is immortal or not. There is no canon proof on this part.
Already addressed. Btw, I thought everyone already took her immortality for granted.
Does not contradict with canon. They do have a ritual cleaning in which you can clean impurities. Lunarians used to be humans from earth. They would have "tainted" the moon ages ago if there was not a way to cleanse themselves and others.
I've got curious about this.
A single "impure" bullet from Reimu's Omagatsumi could ruin the moon ("let it go, and you'll bring death to the Moon", "if you don't smash the bullets one by one, the moon will become the same as earth"). If Toyohime could just "cleanse" such impurity, why would she go to the length of threatening Reimu's life to stop it (which, would also "taint" the Moon, I presume)?
Kaguya does not care enough to destroy the bamboo. It isn't like being stuck hurts her.
"I can't get out by myself", she says.
That said, let's not forget that it isn't that she isn't physically fit, it is that she is psychologically lazy. She can easily do a stretch that is impossible for even fit people, but can barely touch her knees with her hands.
Huh?
She clearly couldn't stretch nor do push ups. I don't know how being "psycologycally lazy" would stop her from doing those.
Everyone has a soul, souls don't have a particular size, but the body has a particular size. If souls can freely create a size, then anyone, not just Kaguya can be of any size they want. What the Hourai Elixir does is causes the soul to become invincible. It doesn't actually change a soul's state.
I should've cited the entire quote.
"Immortality is like casting away the physical body.
It is for one's true self to become merely the soul, and to be able to produce new a new flesh from that.
Souls don't have a particular size, so they can freely create another body wherever they like. "
Even if Mokou wasn't blowing her up lately, the "create another body wherever they like" covers my reasoning.
What about the weaponry in Kourindou? Guns is not something that is out of place. Those are probably weapons that imaginative designers tried to do, but failed, because of impraticality and thus it fell into fantasy lands.
Quite the wildcard argument you pulled there.
(http://i.imgur.com/HLlNd.png)
This is false. Reisen cannot give orders to Tewi. Eirin never gave Reisen the authority to do this. However, Reisen takes it upon herself to order Tewi, even though she isn't supposed to. Her thinking is probably on the lines of since she is Eirin apprentice and she believes Eirin is the boss, then she would have authority over the rabbits. This is untrue and we know this from canon, not just from Inaba of Earth/Moon.
If you check other canon sources, like Cage in Lunatic Runagate, Eirin does not order Tewi around. When Eirin first met Tewi, they made an agreement, not that Eirin was Tewi's boss. The relationship between Eirin and Tewi are of equals, not of a superior and a subject. Eirin does not actually have authority to order the rabbits around, only Tewi can do that.
Here is the link: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/First_Chapter
Ok, I take that back. Sorry.
But I still don't understand what your reasoning is. Most things that happens to her (even when brought by people outside of Eientei) has nothing to do with the rabbits, even if they had, the fact is that she's still a buttmonkey.
As I have already mentioned, Reisen deserves a lot of this. Refer to that link to see why.
You're implying that Eirin is taking revenge for the rabbits, the ones that she doesn't care and even experiments on?
Still, doesn't diminishes the fact that she's a sadist. Even if it's just on Reisen.
Anyway, you're just giving more examples of discrepancies, since Reisen is the only one that treat the rabbits well in Inaba. Talking about rabbits, aren't they supposed to be "little girls"? Shape changing isn't out of question since they're youkai, but still, you'd expect them to protest when being painted and sold, played around like balls, used as futon-warmer, used as fish bait, used as Mokou-bait, or being freaking kidnapped by Toyohime.
Mokou may have a fued with her, but for Kaguya, it is just fun and games. This is verified in Cage in Lunatic Runagate.
I don't see anything ignored, you may want to check out Cage in Lunatic Runagate if you are seeing some differences in characterization.
I know the Mokou episode from Lunatic Runagate.
Actually, Mokou moved on, but Kaguya is still on it, apparently going herself as well (Always trying to kill me... Always sending assassins... She KNOWS that I'll never die!). Then when they meet, Mokou's the one that wants to fight, but Kaguya tried to "avoid" it. Ok then, let's move on... food fight! Hooray. Way to ruin the gruesome Mokou and somewhat sadistic Kaguya ZUN created.
It doesn't matter how many times I read Lunatic Runagate, Silent Sinner in Blue and beat IN (after all, Kaguya is my favourite character... I can't get enough of her), I just won't see her being unrefined, lazy, childish and silly (all typical moe traits... ahem) like in the Inabas. Because, well...... she was not. Until now, of course.
May ZUN protect my waifu so she can be perfect as I want (sorry
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That is an argument made by how Eirin could be immortal. However, there is no conclusive proof that it is the case.
The ghost team ending can just be them bantering, like they usually do.
You realize that if we use this kind of approach to everything important said by the characters, we can pretty much create whatever canon pleases us, right? You deserve another Moko-tan stare.
Btw, ZUN must've been drunk when he gave that interview. His view on SWR and Tenshi was completely... uh... inaccurate, to say the least.
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But about the whole ghost team ending; Didn't Yuyuko offer poisoned sake/wine/a drink whatsoever that contained poison so they could kill her, and thus have a nurse in the netherworld? If Eirin outright refused to drink the whatever, knowing in had poison in it, doesn't that slightly hints she's in fact not immortal? I mean, if someone offered me poison and I was immortal, I'd at LEAST point out that it wouldn't work anyway.
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Btw, ZUN must've been drunk when he gave that interview. His view on SWR and Tenshi was completely... uh... inaccurate, to say the least.
No, the better question is, "When is ZUN not drunk?"
Also, I like his view of Tenshi, mostly because I'm a fan of her.
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No, the better question is, "When is ZUN not drunk?"
Also, I like his view of Tenshi, mostly because I'm a fan of her.
Would you please tell me what ZUN said and all? I missed that, and I'm a fan of Tenshi as well so I'm interested :D
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>>>Moeblob Kaguya not canon
>>>Mengele-Eirin *is* canon
Excuse me, what the Devil is this.
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A discussion about character interpretation. Touhou is probably the game with the most of those. No one sees the same character the same way, I guess.
*Personally likes moeblob Kaguya and Nazi Eirin*
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I can tell it's a discussion about character interpretation. It's just that one moment the argument is FANON BAD FANON MAKE KAGUYA INTO DUMB NEET MOEBLOB and the next minute it's all NAZI EIRIN IS CANON EIRIN when I thought it was the memes that portrayed her that way and her canon self was benevolent if grouchy but not afraid to tell the rest of the Lunarians to go jump in a lake.
So what I'm saying here is either MM's being a bit inconsistent or else I missed something.
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I can tell it's a discussion about character interpretation. It's just that one moment the argument is FANON BAD FANON MAKE KAGUYA INTO DUMB NEET MOEBLOB and the next minute it's all NAZI EIRIN IS CANON EIRIN when I thought it was the memes that portrayed her that way and her canon self was benevolent if grouchy but not afraid to tell the rest of the Lunarians to go jump in a lake.
So what I'm saying here is either MM's being a bit inconsistent or else I missed something.
Woah, me? You're probably missing something, or reading someone's posts as my own. I'm not talking about fanon at all... nor neet or nazi stuff.
If you mean the part where I said that Eirin is sadistic, I meant in that particullar comic.
Would you please tell me what ZUN said and all? I missed that, and I'm a fan of Tenshi as well so I'm interested :D
He said:
"Well, simply put, they were left out (of SoPM) because they have nothing to do with Kanako, Hijiri or Miko, but Tenshi has a pretty good personality, doesn't she? In the end, the game was all about everyone bullying her. She reminds me of Cirno in that sense. The number of characters at that level of intelligence has increased, hasn't it. That kind of character is easier to come up with, compared to timid characters, which tend to be harder. In the end, in a game, Reimu is just going to force her way past and defeat them anyway, though."
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Woah, me? You're probably missing something, or reading someone's posts as my own. I'm not talking about fanon at all... nor neet or nazi stuff.
If you mean the part where I said that Eirin is sadistic, I meant in that particullar comic.
Oooooooh, okay. I figured I was doing something dumb. :getdown: Sorry for putting you on the spot!
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A discussion about character interpretation. Touhou is probably the game with the most of those. No one sees the same character the same way, I guess.
*Personally likes moeblob Kaguya and Nazi Eirin*
The hell is a Nazi Eirin?
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The hell is a Nazi Eirin?
An Eirin that does mean and ethically questionable experiments on living creatures for science lulz.
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Personally, I don't think Eirin does cruel experiments, if only because has no reason to do experiments anymore. She's already done. Her whole gimmick is that she knows stuff, so why does she need to learn more stuff? ...On the other hand, I believe it is canon that she drugs the rabbits, to make them more obedient or quieter or something. Not an experimental drug, but a known drug. So in that sense she's not very nice. Surely she's smart enough to take good care of her tools though?
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Personally, I don't think Eirin does cruel experiments, if only because has no reason to do experiments anymore. She's already done. Her whole gimmick is that she knows stuff, so why does she need to learn more stuff? ...On the other hand, I believe it is canon that she drugs the rabbits, to make them more obedient or quieter or something. Not an experimental drug, but a known drug. So in that sense she's not very nice. Surely she's smart enough to take good care of her tools though?
Yeah. She even charges reasonable prices for the meds she makes. (Also, the idea of Eirin making Ritalin for the Earth rabbits makes me giggle far more than it should.)
Didn't she leave the moon because she didn't agree with something the Lunarians wanted her to do or is my brain scrambled again?
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Yeah. She even charges reasonable prices for the meds she makes. (Also, the idea of Eirin making Ritalin for the Earth rabbits makes me giggle far more than it should.)
Didn't she leave the moon because she didn't agree with something the Lunarians wanted her to do or is my brain scrambled again?
As far as I know, she left because she felt guilty about not being punished for making the elixir that Kaguya drank. So she only left the moon because Kaguya felt like leaving the moon and Eirin loyally followed. She has no grudge against or disagreement with the Lunarians at all.
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As far as I know, she left because she felt guilty about not being punished for making the elixir that Kaguya drank. So she only left the moon because Kaguya felt like leaving the moon and Eirin loyally followed. She has no grudge against or disagreement with the Lunarians at all.
Ahhhhhh, okay.
I was gonna say, Eirin leaving the moon because the rest of the Lunarians skeeved her out seemed a bit grim for canon Touhou to me. :V
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Already addressed. Btw, I thought everyone already took her immortality for granted.
Untrue, there are others that do not think she is immortal.
The banter at the end of ghost team's ending only says that Eirin could have been immortal, since you know, they were bantering. There have been many bantering dialogues and a lot of it is trash talking. Look at Yuyuko's dialogue with Yukari in IaMP, they were talking about poisoning everyone, which I am pretty sure is not true. Or the dialogue where Remilia mentioning how Reimu killed Sakuya, which we know is false.
What we do know is Eirin says that the drink Yuyuko gave her won't affect her.
A single "impure" bullet from Reimu's Omagatsumi could ruin the moon ("let it go, and you'll bring death to the Moon", "if you don't smash the bullets one by one, the moon will become the same as earth"). If Toyohime could just "cleanse" such impurity, why would she go to the length of threatening Reimu's life to stop it (which, would also "taint" the Moon, I presume)?
You should know that Yorihime countered Reimu's skill, using her own shrine maiden summon. What Reimu was throwing out is pure impurity, it is not something that is so easily cleansed. However, we know for a fact that it can be cleansed, as seen in that very comic.
Yorihime threatening Reimu's life is probably because of some other reason. Reimu's spell was cleared successfully by Yorihime already.
Huh?
She clearly couldn't stretch nor do push ups. I don't know how being "psycologycally lazy" would stop her from doing those.
This is false. On the very same page, she can do a full bend, this is only possible for people with lots of training. Refer to this and look at the whole page, not just part of it: http://mangafox.me/manga/inaba_of_the_moon_inaba_of_the_earth/c008/6.html
Hence, I call it psychologically lazy, because she can in fact do this.
Even if Mokou wasn't blowing her up lately, the "create another body wherever they like" covers my reasoning.
Only after the body goes away. Which it has not. The soul recreates the body when the body is destroyed. I thought if you look at the Mokou scenario, you would have seen that Mokou was clearly suffering from the effects of the battle.
Quite the wildcard argument you pulled there.
It may be a wildcard argument, but it is not illogical. We know that there are people who have ideas of all sorts of weapons and many of them never see the light of day. Gensokyo is a place where fantasy creations appear. It is not too much of leap in logic to think of cool creations such as a shotgun umbrella, which never saw the light of day in the real world.
A more concrete example is in Hisoutensoku, where Suwako created Hisoutensoku. It is a creation only possible in a fantasy setting.
Similarly, there is cold fusion...
You're implying that Eirin is taking revenge for the rabbits, the ones that she doesn't care and even experiments on?
No I am not talking about Eirin at all. I am talking about Reisen abusing powers that she does not have. This is why Reisen deserves the pranks that Tewi plays on her. She has no authority to order Tewi around, but she does, and Tewi being the better rabbit, allows her to do it sometimes.
Anyway, you're just giving more examples of discrepancies, since Reisen is the only one that treat the rabbits well in Inaba. Talking about rabbits, aren't they supposed to be "little girls"? Shape changing isn't out of question since they're youkai, but still, you'd expect them to protest when being painted and sold, played around like balls, used as futon-warmer, used as fish bait, used as Mokou-bait, or being freaking kidnapped by Toyohime.
Reisen is not the only one who treats the rabbits well, she actually does not treat them well. She considers them her subordinates when they are not.
The rabbits can change shape. They could be little girls or little rabbits. You see both versions in various mangas.
There is a difference between Tewi treating the rabbits and Reisen. Tewi is their boss and have known them for a long time. Reisen is not, she is an outsider. Tewi is closer to family with the rabbits.
Kaguya and Eirin are different from Reisen, they respect Tewi's authority. This is also why they are able to "mistreat" the rabbits, as you put it.
The difference here is, respect. You don't see Reisen considering Tewi or the rabbits her equal. However, this is not the same case for Kaguya and Eirin.
As already mentioned, the only reason why the rabbits listen to Kaguya or Eirin is because Tewi allows it. It is a mutual agreement, one which Reisen somehow missed.
Which Tewi prevented Toyohime from doing. Toyohime is a fairly dangerous person, so prevention is the better idea.
Actually, Mokou moved on, but Kaguya is still on it, apparently going herself as well (Always trying to kill me... Always sending assassins... She KNOWS that I'll never die!).
That's the thing though. Prior to the comics, we don't know what kind of assassins Kaguya sends to Mokou. Now, if we consider what kind of minions Kaguya does have, the only assassins she can possibly send are, Reisen or the rabbits. Neither of them are much of a threat.
What Kaguya does like to do and this is reflected in the Inabas manga is that she still likes to troll Mokou.
I don't really see any contradiction from Imperishable Night and this. I mean sure, there are darker interpretations of this, but this interpretation makes the most sense, considering what minions Kaguya has access to.
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This thread has roughly 4.7 times as many off-topic posts as on-topic ones. That is, 55 posts vs 15.
Therefore, non sequitur mode activated.
I'd like to see remakes of EoSD, PCB and IN with MoF-style graphics, sound quality and gameplay. EoSD is especially hard to get back into what with the slow movement and oddly sized bullets.
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Oh look, secondaries are still claiming Eirin is a goddess. Some things never change. :smug:
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Honestly, I don't think it really matters whether Eirin's a goddess or not. Either way, she's really old, knows a lot of stuff, and likes to drug rabbits. It's like... Hina. She was claimed to be a goddess from her first introduction, but Akyuu says that she's technically not because she lives on curses instead of faith. So she's not actually a goddess, and nothing like any of the other goddesses we know, but I doubt that's going to stop anyone from thinking of her as a goddess.
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This thread has roughly 4.7 times as many off-topic posts as on-topic ones. That is, 55 posts vs 15.
Therefore, non sequitur mode activated.
I'd like to see remakes of EoSD, PCB and IN with MoF-style graphics, sound quality and gameplay. EoSD is especially hard to get back into what with the slow movement and oddly sized bullets.
I agree with you, though I preferred SA graphics, which were pretty much like an upgraded MoF. And for some random reason, it went downhill with UFO, in my opinion at least. EoSD would be awesome with better bullets and glow effects and stuff.
On a side note, I'm sorry your post got ignored and that the off topic Eirin debate continued. I support you! :3
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I agree with you, though I preferred SA graphics, which were pretty much like an upgraded MoF. And for some random reason, it went downhill with UFO, in my opinion at least. EoSD would be awesome with better bullets and glow effects and stuff.
On a side note, I'm sorry your post got ignored and that the off topic Eirin debate continued. I support you! :3
Gotta agree with that, UFO didn't seem quite as atmospheric as Mof or SA.
On a side note, why thankee kind sir.
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Gotta agree with that, UFO didn't seem quite as atmospheric as Mof or SA.
On a side note, why thankee kind sir.
MoF = Beautiful atmosphere. Really shows how nice Youkai Mountain looks at fall (CMIIW)
SA = I don't remember it being that atmospheric except for Stage 5, and that's mostly comes from the music.
UFO = In the early stages it's not that atmospheric but when it reaches Makai it's just awesome.
So, MoF > UFO > SA.
Oh look, secondaries are still claiming Eirin is a goddess. Some things never change. :smug:
I agree with Eirin not being a goddess but why does the wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Moon) say that ZUN refers to her as a god?
I wish the wiki would be more clear in stuff like this. If a consensus can't be reached, then just say that we don't know whether Eirin's a god or not.
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I agree with Eirin not being a goddess but why does the wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Moon) say that ZUN refers to her as a god?
I wish the wiki would be more clear in stuff like this. If a consensus can't be reached, then just say that we don't know whether Eirin's a god or not.
In the interview at the end of SOPM, ZUN is talking about how the moon is home to the higher type of god, who don't get along with the native gods of Earth. He then says that Eirin is "one of them". It's unclear whether he's saying she's a god or just from the moon.
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Since her supposed deitic properties aren't mentioned anywhere, I'm going to go out on a limb and venture that ZUN meant she's from the moon.
I'd like to see remakes of EoSD, PCB and IN with MoF-style graphics, sound quality and gameplay. EoSD is especially hard to get back into what with the slow movement and oddly sized bullets.
Really gotta disagree with re-doing Imperishable Night. I loved the art for that game, and Stages 5 and 6 are among my favorites in the series, art-wise. The gameplay has enough going on that it stays very interesting, and the music is fantastic. I don't think MoF quite lives up to IN, to be honest. Having said that, EoSD and PCB could stand to use some tweaking, especially in the art department.
I think ZUN's art continues to improve, although UFO definitely was a step sideways. Going into Stage 4 of Ten Desires reminded me of what he's capable of again.
What I'd like to see is a game with multiple possible routes. IN and GFW do this in a limited way, but I mean like, five or six possible starting paths that branch out from there. Might make for a massive game, but hell, I'd totally play it.
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I agree Imperishable Night was very beautiful and by a long shot, had the best atmosphere. Right after it, there's MoF.
I kinda wonder what caused the sudden change in graphics style in UFO and in some parts of TD? It's like he took a big step backward, then stumbled foward.
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Wasn't this thread about CGI Touhou anime?
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Wasn't this thread about CGI Touhou anime?
Say what now? I thought this was about Eirin's various fandom interpretations!
I'm joking, it's pretty crazy how it flew out the window.
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Wasn't this thread about CGI Touhou anime?
Not since reply 27, try to keep up. :V
Regarding IN:
I actually think the art and atmosphere for IN is fine as is, I just imagine it would seem out of place if every other game had uniform graphics. Not particularly bad in comparison, just a bit jarring, like remaking a five year old series for a more powerful modern console, but leaving out the middle game in the series.
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Regarding IN:
I actually think the art and atmosphere for IN is fine as is, I just imagine it would seem out of place if every other game had uniform graphics. Not particularly bad in comparison, just a bit jarring, like remaking a five year old series for a more powerful modern console, but leaving out the middle game in the series.
I guess a slight revamp in graphics, like for some bullets, would look nice, but IN isn't so bad, compared to, let's say, PCB or EoSD. Those are really far behind IN, especially when it comes to lasers >_>
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Yeah, there's a reason why I use the retexture patch for EoSD.
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Yeah, there's a reason why I use the retexture patch for EoSD.
For the hitbox, OBVIOUSLY.