Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Akyu's Arcade => Topic started by: trancehime on May 07, 2012, 08:19:23 AM

Title: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: trancehime on May 07, 2012, 08:19:23 AM
pokemon murky red α 1.99 hotfix
next :: β 1.00
a diabolic foray into in-game and competitive fusion


(http://i.imgur.com/FKcaK.png)
Ever wanted to see a Sudowoodo tank a
STAB Bubblebeam like a boss?

INTRODUCTION
Pokemon Murky Red is a basic and rudimentary Pokemon Fire Red hack (as of now) that aims to make every generation 3 Pokemon viable in use in-game. While most general trainers remain unchanged, your rival, the Gym Leaders and the Elite 4 have been heavily retooled. Their levels are mostly around the same (generally lower in the case of the Gym Leaders and the Elite 4), however, they boast improved movesets and have increased stats due to the general tweaks made to almost all the Pokemon. Careful thought is needed to be able to win against these major fights if you want to avoid over-grinding. Even so, over-grinding does not ensure one a free ticket to cockiness - the picture above is testament to this. Pokemon Murky Red is a game best played blind, with very little prior knowledge to the changes. However, I will describe the basic changes and what other things to expect in Pokemon Murky Red.

CHANGES

CURRENTLY DONE

CHANGED MOVES

TO DO

PATCHES
/!\ IMPORTANT /!\ This requires you to patch over a FIRE RED (U) ver1.0 copy. PM or message me concerns on compatibility.
DO NOT DISCUSS WHERE TO OBTAIN THE STUFF NEEDED TO GET THIS WORKING. 

Alpha 1.00
Alpha 1.50
Alpha 1.50 Mini-Fix
You can patch over Alpha 1.00 with minimal problems. But you will need to restart for earlier changes to be noticed.
Alpha 1.99 Hotfix (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20622791/Pokemon%20Murky%20Red%20Alpha1_9fix.ips) New, with fix
You can patch over Alpha 1.50 with minimal problems. But you will need to restart for earlier changes to be noticed.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: MatsuriSakuragi on May 07, 2012, 11:59:33 AM
I must try this out soon. A true Pok?mon hard mode (and not just cranked-up levels and ridiculous stats) seems like fun, and I have been following many of your tweaks on IRC-- it seems great. :D
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: BT on May 07, 2012, 07:45:45 PM
I suppose I might give this a shot once I have some free time.

The example given (Charizard vs Starmie) keeps implying that the game is made harder because of BST tweaks, but I'd assume the BST changes affect your own Pokemon too. Is it just a thing against starters? :V
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: Conqueror on May 07, 2012, 08:09:38 PM
So does the game become a RPS/pick the correct counter to this mon puzzle-type game?
Also, what about the Physical/Special Split?
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: BT on May 07, 2012, 09:21:51 PM
The split started in the 4th gen games. The original Fire Red doesn't have it.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: MatsuriSakuragi on May 07, 2012, 09:24:13 PM
Some hacks of the 3rd gen do have it-- I know for a fact some Touhoumon ones do. That's why they're called 'hacks'-- stuff is changed and new stuff is added in. :P
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: Janitor Morgan on May 07, 2012, 09:51:19 PM
So does the game become a RPS/pick the correct counter to this mon puzzle-type game?

Not quite. To give you an idea, I completely wiped to Brock my first time with the following team (not-vanilla-available 'mons spoilered): Squirtle L14, Rattata L11,
Venonat
L11,
Spearow
L12,
Eevee
L3 (just using this one for Pickup right now). Managed to get by on my second try once I knew what Brock's 'mons did, though.

Basically I'm saying that you don't *have* to have specific Pokemon to win; you just have to know your opponent's movesets and adapt to them.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: XephyrEnigma on May 07, 2012, 11:07:42 PM
Not quite. To give you an idea, I completely wiped to Brock my first time [...] Basically I'm saying that you don't *have* to have specific Pokemon to win; you just have to know your opponent's movesets and adapt to them.

I can tell you right now that this is true. It's like Trance said in the OP. If you aren't paying attention/don't plan carefully, you ~might~ lose the first time out. Not to say that this is ridiculously hard, but again, you need to adapt to your opponent's strategies.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: Janitor Morgan on May 08, 2012, 01:24:31 AM
Thoughts so far:

--The gym leaders are EVIL. Seriously, so far Brock and Misty have had one Pokemon I just completely didn't expect, and had my entire team wrecked by them. I'm wondering how Surge will go at this rate...
--Lots of interesting changes to wild encounters! I'm surprised I was able to find a Fire-type this early.
--SHINY BUTTERFREE YEAH
--Once the other trainers are retooled, I can see this being a rather difficult hack. Which is a good thing!
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: trancehime on May 08, 2012, 01:55:55 AM
Thank you for the interest in the hack.

Please forward your suggestions on how to improve it through PM or here in the thread. Feel free to share your experiences here too. Spoiler out anything that could make the game easier though  :blush:
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: Janitor Morgan on May 09, 2012, 06:12:49 AM
Just beat Erika so far, and...it seems that the next patch will be more difficult, from what I'm being told. I can't imagine how Misty would get tougher, though D:
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: trancehime on May 09, 2012, 08:13:13 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/YYDFj.png)(http://i.imgur.com/AkbHI.png)

Opening post edited with some minor updates.

Alpha 1.50 will be released sometime this week.

Accompanying mini-changelog to follow with it.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: Random on May 09, 2012, 10:34:29 PM
Any 3rd gen hack that has the physical/special split is automatically awesome.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack
Post by: trancehime on May 10, 2012, 04:42:57 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/NuXQF.png)

I'll be tweaking existing moves too.

Any 3rd gen hack that has the physical/special split is automatically awesome.

IKR?

Reference
Code: [Select]
0x720000
| Free Space
V Available
0xD00000
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: MatsuriSakuragi on May 11, 2012, 08:12:32 PM
Now that I have the Elite Four beaten in Touhoumon, I can mess around with this.

But

uh

I think I did something wrong

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13046768/1336766839211.png)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13046768/1336766850201.png)

and then it crashes :(

man i just wanted to beat things up with bulbasaur :fail:
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: BT on May 11, 2012, 09:59:52 PM
How did you get it to allow >10 chars in a name?

That might be the reason for the crash n' stuff.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: XephyrEnigma on May 11, 2012, 10:07:27 PM
How did you get it to allow >10 chars in a name?

That might be the reason for the crash n' stuff.

It probably just looks like that cause its spitting out parts of names. Notice how if you examine each segment carefully it makes up half of a name.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: Janitor Morgan on May 12, 2012, 02:15:33 AM
So, advice for those that are playing through: take a look at the different abilities and types of each wild Pokemon, if you find yourself stuck. A certain type combo or ability just might make things easier on you.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: trancehime on May 12, 2012, 03:28:35 PM
Hey everyone. I'm still fishing for comments.

Planned for β 1.00:
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: Random on May 12, 2012, 03:47:38 PM
Have you tried doing what Emerald 386 did and make an NPC that gives you the National Dex very early on?
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: MatsuriSakuragi on May 12, 2012, 04:17:02 PM
Brock was so mean omg

I literally had to Sleep Powder + Leech Seed Aerodactyl and switch through my team of weaker Pokemon as it slowly went down. D:
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: trancehime on May 13, 2012, 01:09:22 AM
Have you tried doing what Emerald 386 did and make an NPC that gives you the National Dex very early on?

Evolutions already work without needing the National Dex.

Doing the NPC route is not an elegant solution to the problem because:
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: Janitor Morgan on May 14, 2012, 12:32:06 AM
So it seems like
Ancientpower has a 50% proc rate on its stat-up.
I'm pretty much positive this is going to be fixed, because imagining something with Serene Grace, that move, and
Silver Wind
all at once...yeah.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: Serela on May 14, 2012, 06:56:07 PM
So it seems like
Ancientpower has a 50% proc rate on its stat-up.
I'm pretty much positive this is going to be fixed, because imagining something with Serene Grace, that move, and
Silver Wind
all at once...yeah.
Some boss thing (like the rival champion or whatnot) having something like that sounds awesome, although it'd have to be something not player attainable because that's pretty broken yeah.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: BT on May 14, 2012, 07:16:40 PM
All-Up boosts are NOT fun. Especially not to play against.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: XephyrEnigma on May 14, 2012, 07:36:21 PM
All-Up boosts are NOT fun. Especially not to play against.

Which is why it's probably going to either be changed, or occur less frequently.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: Random on May 14, 2012, 09:56:06 PM
Some boss thing (like the rival champion or whatnot) having something like that sounds awesome, although it'd have to be something not player attainable because that's pretty broken yeah.
That would be a pretty cool thing to add as well. Changing some Pokemon for the major battles that would add stuff like unattainable movesets, different natures, and modifications to the moves themselves are things I always wanted in a Pokemon hack.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.50]
Post by: trancehime on May 15, 2012, 02:30:02 AM
That would be a pretty cool thing to add as well. Changing some Pokemon for the major battles that would add stuff like unattainable movesets, different natures, and modifications to the moves themselves are things I always wanted in a Pokemon hack.

The only "unattainable movesets" in this hack will be Pokemon having moves they don't normally get at their level, but can still get it at higher levels legally.
I already am currently modifying moves.

Thanks to one of my testers, I'm yet again upgrading the Gym Leaders.
Clear Smog existing in FRLG would trivialize this
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Random on May 15, 2012, 03:09:22 AM
The only "unattainable movesets" in this hack will be Pokemon having moves they don't normally get at their level, but can still get it at higher levels legally.
Fair enough.

Brock already owned me once. And I thought nothing would surprise me after Touhoumon Lunatic :V
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: XephyrEnigma on May 15, 2012, 03:56:20 PM
>Gym Leaders, some trainers and possibly some others now on "Lunatic" difficulty style
I am fearful, but willing. Challenge accepted. Let's dance.

edit: Okay, so Misty is a hell of a thing. It's going to be like a puzzle figuring out what to use, but i've gotten past that one roadblock
Read: Politoed
, so now i'll just have to figure the rest out.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Janitor Morgan on May 16, 2012, 03:50:23 PM
And that's the gym leaders done. Off to the league! ...once I can get past the rival. orz

Giovanni actually wasn't all that bad. I think the fact that I had two water-types (one of whom had Levitate), a grass-type, another Pokemon with Levitate, and a Skarmory helped, though...

EDIT: And league beaten! Though I wish I could have done so with less item spam. >_< Regardless, from what I could tell, the teams were set up well, and I'm looking forward to how they change in round 2.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: BT on May 22, 2012, 04:58:50 PM
Are you still working on this? I might try 1.99 very soon but it would be a waste if 1.00 is just around the corner.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: trancehime on May 23, 2012, 07:33:58 AM
Are you still working on this? I might try 1.99 very soon but it would be a waste if 1.00 is just around the corner.

β 1.00 is gonna take a loooooong while because I still need input on a lot of things.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Janitor Morgan on May 29, 2012, 10:25:26 PM
So, training up for the second round of the Elite Four, and after they're done, looks like I'll be awaiting the changes in the beta version.

I am going to have nightmares about Lorelei, I just know it. Weather teams >_<
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: XephyrEnigma on June 03, 2012, 04:40:13 PM
So, i've gotten to the SS Anne so far, (I know, i know, i'm slow..) and while this point is moot since you are planning to and just havent done it yet (read: making the trainers more challenging) I'll just forgo that. Though I'm starting to think... Grass pokemon don't really seem to have too many options against anything not-water type. At least, Gloom doesn't.

I'm probably oblivious to some of the other grass types, but do they have any non-grass moves they learn? Might be something to think about.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Janitor Morgan on June 03, 2012, 04:51:14 PM
Well, as I mentioned on IRC, Weepinbell gets Bite, which could help against a wider variety of things. You can also find Shroomish if you spend a bit camping Route 4, and Breloom is pretty awesome (4x flying weak, though).

Meanwhile, trying to prepare for the second round of the Elite Four. Got four team members at level 65, a fifth at level 21 and rising, and still need to go breed a good nature for the sixth.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: trancehime on June 04, 2012, 07:43:46 AM
I am working on improving the trainers now, and then I'll work on legendary events.

Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: XephyrEnigma on June 04, 2012, 04:49:52 PM
I am working on improving the trainers now, and then I'll work on legendary events.

I look forward to seeing the results.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Janitor Morgan on June 16, 2012, 02:00:25 AM
Aaaaand just about done with my team; just have to EV train my sixth party member and get it to the same level as the others. Then we'll see what the second round of the E4 has in store.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: BT on June 16, 2012, 07:37:51 AM
Aaaaand just about done with my team; just have to EV train my sixth party member and get it to the same level as the others. Then we'll see what the second round of the E4 has in store.
W-Why would you do this in-game? Anything that can be overcome by EV training can be overcome by grinding / finding the right mons with the right moves. EV training is the worst kind of grinding and is a major pain. :(
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: trancehime on June 16, 2012, 09:46:55 AM
W-Why would you do this in-game? Anything that can be overcome by EV training can be overcome by grinding / finding the right mons with the right moves. EV training is the worst kind of grinding and is a major pain. :(

Trivialized with frameskip and encounter hacking. :V
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: BT on June 16, 2012, 09:48:45 AM
If you're hacking you may as well just hack the mons with the EVs. :V
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: XephyrEnigma on June 16, 2012, 12:34:11 PM
If you're hacking you may as well just hack the mons with the EVs. :V

The dude's got his own reasons. 'sides. not like he's actually taking all that long to do it.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Janitor Morgan on June 16, 2012, 03:04:23 PM
If you're hacking you may as well just hack the mons with the EVs. :V

I'm not sure how to do this with Codebreaker codes. :V

At any rate, sixth one is fully EV'd, so I just need to level it and I can go.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Vhaltz on June 24, 2012, 04:44:17 PM
Changes to random encounters are probably one of the things I appreciate the most in pokemon hacks, and I'm really pleased so far.

I killed off Brock on my first try with lv14
Mawile
, lv16Wartortle, lv12
Eevee
and lv15Mankey.
The first one was probably the most valuable asset to the team, it killed off about half of the enemy team before his HP went down low enough to switch out, and I still had Wartortle and Mankey around so I didn't even have to use any items.

Oh, and shiny onix (http://puu.sh/DkK0) :D

EDIT:
Both Misty and Surge gave some big trouble, but replacing
Mawile
with
Sableye
paid off, and having Primeape and
Ponyta
at level 31 for the latter one made it a lot easier, so I managed to beat both of them on my first try as well. Kind of barely made it on both, specially Misty, I had to use the only revive I had against her.

This hack is proving to be more challenging and fun just by making these harder, unlike resorting to the hellish, tedious dark mazes that the harder Touhoumon hacks all have. I like it.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Janitor Morgan on June 24, 2012, 08:58:44 PM
EDIT:
Both Misty and Surge gave some big trouble, but replacing
Mawile
with
Sableye
paid off, and having Primeape and
Ponyta
at level 31 for the latter one made it a lot easier, so I managed to beat both of them on my first try as well. Kind of barely made it on both, specially Misty, I had to use the only revive I had against her.

This hack is proving to be more challenging and fun just by making these harder, unlike resorting to the hellish, tedious dark mazes that the harder Touhoumon hacks all have. I like it.

I rather enjoyed the hack as well! I finished the Pokemon League V2 a couple days ago myself, and am just waiting on Trance to have the time to work on the beta (university's started again for her, so it may be a while).

For Misty, she can be made a bit easier with
an Onix or Aron with the Sand Stream ability, both found in Mt. Moon, or a Vulpix with Drought, which  I believe you can catch on the route south of Cerulean if you see Bill before doing the gym
. I didn't think to grab either option when I went through this version, so I had to make do with a
Breloom
, which worked relatively well for both Misty and Surge.
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: Vhaltz on June 24, 2012, 10:03:20 PM
For Misty, she can be made a bit easier with
an Onix or Aron with the Sand Stream ability, both found in Mt. Moon, or a Vulpix with Drought, which  I believe you can catch on the route south of Cerulean if you see Bill before doing the gym
. I didn't think to grab either option when I went through this version, so I had to make do with a
Breloom
, which worked relatively well for both Misty and Surge.

I actually used Aron against Misty, he didn't last long, though (Ludicolo was a bitch in that fight), so once he died I had to gamble on some astonishes getting a flinch to prevent them from setting up the rain again, I got quite lucky.

Also lol (http://puu.sh/Dp43)
Title: Re: Pokemon Murky Red - A crazy Fire Red hack [α 1.99 hotfix]
Post by: trancehime on June 27, 2012, 12:20:35 PM
Thanks for the feedback, for a sec there I thought I wouldn't get anymore.

I'm making very slow progress here, but I'll let you know when stuff's up.