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Thread 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4187.0)
Thread 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=4614.0)
Thread 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5049.0)
Thread 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.0)
Thread 5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6744.0.html)
Thread 6 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.0.html)
Thread 7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9136.0.html)
English wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
Japanese wiki (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
2.04 download (http://www.mediafire.com/?mzdgl54mxmi)
2.06B download (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC)
NG+ save file (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7188.0;attach=15055) For 3.01
NG+ save file with all BP pre-set (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11564.msg842455.html#msg842455) For 3.01
Cheat table for use with Cheat Engine. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.msg356800#msg356800)(Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010)
Cheat Table for Special Disc on WinXP (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=6229.msg377088#msg377088) (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010)
Suggested builds for characters (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg589521.html#msg589521)
Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/?w5jig4q58hlmy3z)
Image packs
Squidtentacle's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j)
chirpy's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/?pc8dovp81cj8u8z)
Pandaology's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z)
Let me know if there are other links you guys want in here.
Didn't notice the last thread reached the limit and got locked.
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Dear jesus this game is like... immortal.
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What're you going to do once you hit F30, thread-wise? Go to NG+F1, and so on?
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I doubt it'll reach 20 threads, let alone 30.
Took down Bloody Papa V2, at nearly 100 levels less than what the wiki recommends. :V
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Looking forward to getting back into this for all the 20F+ content once I beat Genius of Sappheiros... it's gonna be FUN. :V
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*insert joke about decreased vision range*
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May as well get in this thread, though I've nothing significant to say.
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Was wondering what happened to the other topic.
Finally took down Baal Avatar full sp Mastah spark FTW. Of course like I feared the fern sigil guardian is awful. Fight seems to be heavily MND oriented but there's a few composite attacks in there that muck things up. Not sure how to handle it yet. So sick of grinding on 25F.
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It's weak to fire, and vulnerable to debuffs. Reisen has a field day on that boss. Pretty much every attack it has is MND-based except for Plasma Touch, which has a weak damage formula anyway. Most of its spells are also WND-based. Stack all ailment resistances (due to Magical Hellfire), have a plan for dealing with Strengthen Jutsu, and field mostly high MND characters (I had Iku tank in the 1st slot due to insane MND and high WND resistance).
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I remember that one being the easiest. Just do what Parallaxal said and get to 27th floor as quickly as you can. That's a much better place to grind.
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Question. At what point do you start getting diminishing returns on SPD and elemental affinity? I know stat protection levels off at 34-36. Anything higher is a waste mathematically. Wasn't SPD somewhere in the early 1000 range? And then I think affinity was somewhere around 5-600 right?
I ask because I'm wondering if I should throw more SKP into elemental affinity for my current party. I mean just about everybody has at least 20-30 lvls in each regardless if they've been used lately or not. I was thinking maybe another 20 lvls in each for my main party would be a good idea but I wanted to know the cut off first before I go too crazy.
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34 is good for total immunity to ailments except Death. I think you want 40 or something to be immune to some death attacks, because their succes rate is over 100% or something.
For elemental affinity, it never stops doing anything, but the higher it is the less useful each new point is. I believe that elemental damage is multiplied by 100/affinity. So 50 gives you twice the damage, 100 takes normal, 200 takes half, 400 takes a quarter, and so on. I ended up bringing mine up to the 500-600 range for the 30F boss, though a few, such as Yuka's nature affintity, were over 700. Of course, I don't know if I was making a good decision or not. And then there's the matter of the particular characters defensive stats. Certainly I think Komachi wants more affinity than others, for example.
For speed I have no idea.
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Alright so most of my information was correct thanks Zil.
Finally beat Agastobrauma god I hated that battle. Para thanks a lot for suggesting I take Iku because I never would have thought of it. The battle was still irritating but her being there helped a fair deal. Mystia is pretty damn MVP in that fight too. I brought Reisan along as well but I felt like I was just wasting turns trying to debuff him given how fast the stupid thing is.Magical Hellfire and Jutsu were the real problems. I just turned it into a damage race and tried to bring it down ASAP. And since this game loves to throw incentive my way to keep me playing even when I'm ready to give up the little twit coughed up his drop the Necronomicon. I was pretty happy about that. Threw that pretty little beauty on Marisa post haste.
Finally on 26F and after that boss fight it seems like a walk in the park. The random encounters aren't terribly threatening at all. Then I ran into Eiki... shes no where near as bad as Agasto but it's still not going to be a walk in the park. BTW is something wrong with the sound file for Last Judgement? I don't hear anything when she uses it.
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I just remembered something. I think I kept Agastobrauma paralyzed for the entirety of the fight. Unless he's immune to that, then I'm thinking of something else. Pretty sure it was him though.
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You're thinking of Flame Tyrant. Agasto has regular resist to PAR so it's not a sound strategy against him.
On a side note I completely forgot that I never killed duel Hibachi. They weren't much of a challenge at Reimu 240ish but I'm not complaining. Slaughtered them and then went on to slaughter Mari 2.0. Her new minion summons surprised me but they went down just as hard as she did. So I've got 2 new party members now, 3 if you count Keine who I grabbed before these two fights. She's a solid character for sure.
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I really think Keine was designed to be the most "average" character imaginable. Average damage formulas, reasonably decent affinities, straightforward buffs, even her stats feel decidedly "average" aside from good HP. Really a Jack of All Trades type of character. Given how late you get her, I think she was intended to be someone who could fill in whatever role your team lacked, since you can build her to emphasize something you need (although in practice she's just much better at buffing and off-tanking).
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She's a pretty damn good replacement for Ran in that she can fill the same role but for different reasons. Ran is a solid character but she's not much of a tank.
Finally beat Eiki and I'm now down on 27F reaping the benefits of absurdly awesome EXP/SKP. The battle with Eiki isn't really hard at all it's more a luck battle varying on when and IF the AI decides to say F you I win and wipe you out with Bar of the 10 kings. Can't count the number of times I got her down under 3-4 mil and then BAM focus you lose. Finally got lucky enough to drop her under 2 mil so even when focus showed up it didn't matter. 2 shot her at that point. 600k from Flan and 1.3 mill dmg full sp mastah spark from Marisa. Mystic resistance much Eiki? xD
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Ran is a solid character but she's not much of a tank.
If you think that then you didn't build her defensively :V
Yukari, for example, works wonderfully as a tank if build that way. Then I tried Ran as a tank and realized that every single one of Ran's stats was superior to Yukari's after I skp'd her out and everything. I used a DEF build on them both, by the way; since Yukari already had superb mnd but kept being frail as soon as physicals came out, and was offensively nigh-useless anyway, outside of weird situations.
Ran is also amazing offensively because her composite attack has such low delay and a great formula ontop of her great stats. And when you have the sp for it, spamming her def/mnd buffs can keep your party nigh-permanently at 70~100% buff, which makes a -massive- difference (If you aren't opening ***Winner*** battle with Reimu and/or Yukari def/mndbuff and having Ran on permabuff duty the whole fight to keep it up, you're doing it wrong). Ran is just... amazing. However, I find her usefulness low until her SP rises up, similarly to Aya, whom also skyrockets in greatness with high SP (Aya is chen 2.0 even if the boss resists WND).
I used Keine for awhile and I found her to be a good off-tank and a good alternative for Iku... although not particularly special (If only you got her earlier.). It's also very notable that, due to Keine's much better SPD, Keine can actually be spec'ed out to go before the rest of your team in randoms and buff them up to do much higher damage. It's the one thing Keine actually shines at!
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When in doubt, build for speed.
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It's also very notable that, due to Keine's much better SPD, Keine can actually be spec'ed out to go before the rest of your team in randoms and buff them up to do much higher damage. It's the one thing Keine actually shines at!
I remember on one of my previous playthroughs, when I was 27F grinding before Flan could 1HKO everything with Laevatain, I would field Keine and give her as many speed boost as possible, and use an ATK buff when something that Flan can't 1HKO shows up. Worked wonderfully until Flan could 1HKO everything consistently.
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If you're planning on 30F grinding (aka planning on seriously going after Winner, especially if more then one kill for whatever reason), you should, however, head towards a goal of Iku being able to outspeed Nitori when given a full equipment set of huge speed bonus gear. Regardless of how much you have to neglect Nitori's SPD and pamper Iku's.
Because Yukari/Iku/Kaguya/Nitori is just the best grinding party possible for 30F. You cannot beat it. Nitori's Megawatt is too friggin OP (And Kaguya can even allow you to take on Alice V3)
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I think I broke Rinnosuke V3.
He started spamming Form Destruction after he switched forms once, which let me kill him ridiculously quickly. I'm fairly sure that isn't supposed to happen. :wat:
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No that's supposed to happen. There's just something wrong with game. I think only the last form drops his item though. It's the only one I never found. (At least I got six of Yuka's dress things.)
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Huh. I guess that makes him easy then.
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If you deal 5m or more damage to his first form, he'll transform. If you deal 5m or more damage to him after his transformation (or maybe a total of 5m or more over the course of his transformations; I haven't tried it since I always deal 5m+ after his first transformation), he'll spam Form Destruction. During this phase, I think it takes 2m+ damage to beat him, but I just keep Focusing til he reaches his final form which only takes 200k damage to beat. I finally got 2 Awakened Exoskeletons but no Dresses... Now, idk if he drops the item when he's in his Form Destruction spam mode. If he does, it'd make it much easier to get the item. Imo, Rinnosuke's one of the easiest encounters there.
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You don't even need to beat his first elemental form. Once he shifts to another, he spams Form Destruction regardless of how much damage you do.
I'm basing this off one encounter though, so I might be wrong.
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Well, my assumption was that you do so much damage, and it just carries over to the next form (Eventually going through all his hp and killing him)
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It would make sense that he needs to be in his final form like Yukari for the drop.
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I don't plan to exceed 5-7m damage in fear of accidentally beating him before he reaches the final form. As for Yukari, really? Aww, although I did get the item before, I thought I'd get it again if I beat her before she does her second Djinn Storm, or first if I get lucky.
Also, what determines the girl that appears on the save screen? Is it most used girl? At first I thought it was based on the number of kills since it showed Flan previously, but now it's Yukari. And my Yukari's built for defense, she can barely kill anything.
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It's most used, yes. To be more precise, the one with the most battle points. Mine was Patchy for a very long time, before it was "frozen" as Cirno for the rest of game. :P
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Well that makes sense. Mine's been Reimu throughout the main game and most of the post game, then switched to Flan and now it's Yukari.
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Mine always ends up being Mystia. NO EXCEPTIONS.
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I don't know about Rinnosuke, but I'm almost positive that I once managed to get a drop from Yukari v3 without her reaching her final form.
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Pretty sure I've gotten Rinnosuke's drop without him in his final form.
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After I heard what decides the picture on your save, mines is Youmu and it will always stay Youmu. I make sure of it.
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My save pic usually ends up being Meiling unless I happen to constantly use a character that requires alot of battle points for event triggers but not sure if I use anyone like that in my last save.
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Mine used to be a tie between Remi and Nitori. As I got further it became Nitori only. Megawatt Linear Gun is too hax to pass up.
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Mine usually ends up being Flan at some point and then stops moving. She's a godsend in grinding.
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I've confirmed that you can get the Immortal School Badge before Yukari's first Djinn Storm. Not yet with Rinnosuke though.
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you don't need to wait until he's in his last form. I have never waited for him to reach his last form, but got the item 7x or so. there's not really anything you need to fulfill in order to get the items aside from beating everything on F30. the drop-chances are just very very low. I think the highest was tenshi's drop with 6% and that's nothing.
and I personally beg to differ. yukari/iku/kaguya/notori is NOT the best way to farm items.
I started using youmu as a tank, instead of komachi, considering that my youmu has enough hitpoints to even soak last judgement of eiki version 2 (which is 276k or something, on average). and for komachi I brought Flan in my team and my sweeping party are just 4 nukers. Youmu, Eiki, Nitori and Flandre can pretty much kill everything on the floor without anyone needing a 2nd turn. and least for me. having raised everyone's affinities and ATK (for Flan MAG, too, 'cause laevantein is composite), I don't need to be scared of a wipeout.
it was, however, useful to manipulate items, so that Flandre's the slowest, that way I can use laevantein safely. after everyone used their high delay nukes, the 5% eiki loses don't matter. not to mention that laevantein is the strongest attack in the game if you do it right (against anything that doesn't heavily resists FIR, anyway)
I didn't dare fighting WINNER yet, but I think I ought I will try him in a bit. I should be able to defeat him.
I am sorry to say this, but I honestly think that yuugi lacks a little later on. despite me having used all of her level-bonuses on ATK and having pumped her ATK stat till 400, she's still doing 500k-1 million damage less than Youmu, who's the weakest of the aformentioned 4 (damage-wise, that is). Yuugi is only doing more damage on opponents weak to FIR. Youmu's doing 4 million against everything except hibachi twin #1 :'D and I believe that yuugi's getting too much credit for her damage. I thoroughly compared the big nukers (on physical side, that is) and feel the urge to tell people to not overrate yuugi, I think that everyone with a rteal big nuke is better, like suwako. I stopped using her and started to use mystia for mysterious song.
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Yeah I agree about Yuugi being kinda lame. (I ditched her almost immediately.) Just a semi-decent fire nuke, but there are tons of those. Not to mention she's not really a proper tank since magic kills her pretty quick. I'm not too fond of Youmu either for basically the same reason.
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youmu might be easily torn apart my magic, but Youmu's got a non-elemental nuke, which is usually an advantage opposed to elemental nukes suck as knockout in three steps. best example is against the serpent of chaos: youmu and eiki could stay outside for the whole fight (youmu didn't get damaged by anything physical, and eiki fared against the magic well), because they could attack with their non-elemental spells until their SP would run out (they didn't, though), while yuugi only had a small window of doing damage. a huge backdraw, in my opinion and I found even kaguya to be more useful thanks to buddha's stone bowl.
I don't mind yuugi's low MND that much, since well, every character's got weaknesses. patchy is pathetic in terms of HP, speed and DEF, but is still regarded as an awesome character (on which I do not disagree). so the same for yuugi and youmu with their MND. I can just wring out more damage out of her than I can out of youmu (+ I am very biased, because youmu's like my 2nd favorite character in touhou, lol)
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I personally think my strategy probably starts working at lower levels then yours, is the thing (Having Iku switch Yukari for Aya and then Yukari out again to get another round of attacks if it doesn't quite work out; and, the fact that Nitori has Iku's attack buff for her ridiculously powerful Megawatt makes a huge difference in sheer numbers. A huge one. 3 Megawatts from a buffed Nitori and one Kaggy attack>>>> 4 unbuffed nukers); but I don't remember if I started farming 30F around Reimu lv380 or 420 or what. It was a long time ago x_x
I mean, after you get strong enough, you can use most strong nukers and it works fine :V The difference is how low of a level it becomes 30F-viable.
Also, about your Yuugi; I actually thought Yuugi got a lot BETTER later on. Now, she already has HP/DEF comparable to Meiling (I don't remember if they were better or not), but she had the low MND thing. However... that late in the game, you can boost her affinites up a lot (Especially if you get Hibachi V2's drop) and then she becomes an incredible tank who even takes magic very well. When you're at 30F grinding point, you can basically have affinities completely make up for anyone with low MND that you want to be tankier. Yeah, she'll do a little lower damage then other nukers, but she'll have incredible durability!
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I personally think my strategy probably starts working at lower levels then yours, is the thing (Having Iku switch Yukari for Aya and then Yukari out again to get another round of attacks if it doesn't quite work out; and, the fact that Nitori has Iku's attack buff for her ridiculously powerful Megawatt makes a huge difference in sheer numbers. A huge one. 3 Megawatts from a buffed Nitori and one Kaggy attack>>>> 4 unbuffed nukers); but I don't remember if I started farming 30F around Reimu lv380 or 420 or what. It was a long time ago x_x
I mean, after you get strong enough, you can use most strong nukers and it works fine :V The difference is how low of a level it becomes 30F-viable.
Also, about your Yuugi; I actually thought Yuugi got a lot BETTER later on. Now, she already has HP/DEF comparable to Meiling (I don't remember if they were better or not), but she had the low MND thing. However... that late in the game, you can boost her affinites up a lot (Especially if you get Hibachi V2's drop) and then she becomes an incredible tank who even takes magic very well. When you're at 30F grinding point, you can basically have affinities completely make up for anyone with low MND that you want to be tankier. Yeah, she'll do a little lower damage then other nukers, but she'll have incredible durability!
when I STARTED, I just went all out on everything. I took every encounter serious like I'd do with any bossfight. tank in the first slot, durable character in 2nd, support, healer and nuker in 3rd and 4th. I didn't want to spend long on that floor in 1 session, I wanted to beat the enemies there, so I did that. and I thin kthat trying to stay on that floor for a long time without returning to gensokyo proves difficult and will result in rage once you encounter Chen, since I found myself often half dead after meeting her early on (since she's got a speed of 11k or so, so she WILL outrun anyone who just started on F30). I personally believe her to be (ironically) the most dangerous encounter on F30, together with yuugi and okuu. Yuugi just have a 2 million damage attack with knockout on F30 and Okuu is just being okuu.
I am not denying that a buffed megawatt deals massive damage. I know nitoris capabilities very well - using her myself, after all. but it might be true that at lower levels, doing what I am doing is...just a little too much. I am mostly farming for items, instead of levels, too. since I missed out my chance for maschine god lucifer (the one I have before winner), I wanted to at least get enough exoskeletons, dresses, psycho guns and school badges.
well, you could say the same about youmu. I believe if you can compare someone to yuugi, it's youmu, rather than suika, 'cause suika displays a more the side of an attacker that yuugi is missing. the MND aspect (and whatnot). their HP and DEF growth are (if I recall correctly, and even if not, youmu still gets 0 dmg from anthing physical I have met, even from hibachi #1's needle parade) comparable. though, only komachi should outdo meiling in terms of HP.
yes, later in the same you can do that, but non elemental attacks will still rip through them. and that's fine. I don't need a character immune to every type of attack, that would take away part of the challenge. and I personally am not too fond of hibachi V2 drop. all it does is raising the affinities a lot and in that case, I'd rather have an exoskeletion that raises everything, affinities too (even though to a much lesser extend) and spend some more skillpoints of affinites.
and that little damage is the point ! my youmu can do what your yuugi can do + more damage. I found myself to be thinking about it a lot and determined that yuugi was really not up to my standards because of her lower damage. I think youmu's more reliable there.
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There is actually very few magical non-elemental attacks in Touhou Labyrinth, especially once you hit 30F farming, where basically Serpent of Chaos/Hibachi V2/Winner are the only things that matter in terms of surviving against them. Winner has none to speak of; I think he might have one, but if he does it ignores MND entirely, so it doesn't matter who it hits anyway, it's entirely undefendable.
So, yeah, affinities basically can replace MND that far in for whoever you like. This means anyone with good DEF/HP can be tanky and anyone at all can go in the 4th slot without worry, if you so desire to build them up for it.
And Yuugi actually has a LOT more DEF (and more MND, although both have abysmal anyway) then Youmu (And more then Meiling, although yeah, Meiling has some more HP). Youmu does still have almost as much as Meiling though, so the same strategy still basically applies. I actually replaced my Meiling with Yuugi and it worked so well that I sorta felt bad.
So basically, Youmu gets more damage, while Yuugi has more DEF (Only really important if you want to replace Meiling with her, which I consider a great idea that far in)
When I first saw Hibachi V2's drop I wasn't too interested. But far, far by the time I actually got it, I realized it was amazing due to affinity becoming a MND replacement for those with low MND growth. Besides, it's not as if you have Exoskeletons to just throw around (Then I'd probably use those instead, but no, those are in very small supply).
Also; you're close to being ready for Winner, right? Just in case you weren't already planning on it, the best way to open the battle is with Yukari and/or Reimu buffing the first four up to 100ish DEF/MND and then sit Ran in your front four for... pretty much the entire duration of the battle spamming her DEF/MND buff to keep your front 4 constantly at 70~100% buffs. It makes a huge difference. It really does. And Ran should be able to sustain this action for the whole battle (If not, get an SP bonus equip or two on her; the better ones give a giant boost this far in, as SP doesn't get a bonus % per level as the other stats do, if I remember right). And this opinion is coming from someone who never really used Ran's buffs over Reimu/Yukari/Iku/Keine's. It's just... Ran is actually quite tanky if you build her for it, and once she has the SP to pull that sort of strategy off, you basically have 20%+ more DEF/MND at ALL TIMES which is a -massive- change.
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yeah, the dedicated tank character kind of get thrown aback by the high HP/DEF ones in the end :s
when I noticed that affinities mostly replaced MND, I went ahead and used my skillpoints for them. I didn't think that I'd be raising my ATK / MAG for my nukers anymore anyway (I still did, but that's an entirely different story). it took a lot of time, but it paid off. now even Flandre has 600+ on 2 of her affinites that aren't fire. and 500+ for the other 3. But I don't think anything beats my reimu in that. I build her so that he doesn't require switching out, ever, if I use her in a boss battle. 2nd highest speed of anyone (2nd only to aya) and MND/DEF high enough to not receive more than 10% damage of her health. with affinities of 800-900. just in case, for the winner. I don't plan on switching her out in that fight. as for the exoskeletons: I have a lot of them, just as I have badges and dresses, as I said before. I don't think there's a character in my team that doesn't have at least 2 of thos items. but I have to admit that I have more dresses than anything else, really.
well, I don't use yukari, but I think using Reimu's first turn to buff defenses isn't silly, as long as she is faster than WINNER. but rather than planning to go for defenses, I was thinking about raising my attack power. 100 million is a lot to take down and with 4.5 million steps, it'll take forever, knowing that he can heal himself. so I was thinking of raising MAG and ATK to 100 with ran, instead if relying on defenses too much. if I can deal8-9 million with a gun or one last judgement, I can take him down quickly, no?
I will not ignoring any defenses, of course, but it seems to me that prolonging this fight will just make it tedious.
my ran should be able to take everything winner throws at her, since I did build her as a MND tank, similar to how I'd have raised a yukari, as well as Reimu can.
Ran is a useful character, indeed, but here, too, I think she's slightly overrated and if you rely on her too much, it could end bad if you lose her through some unfortunate accident, which is what I am trying to prevent: I don't want to rely on anyone buffing me or something, so that I don't end up helpless when she dies. the only exception is reimu, because I didn't feel like getting more than one healer, which is also the reason why she's build like 3 tanks and aya. lots of defenses, massive affinies and high speed, slightly higher HP than usual, too. she's almost a god...if just her furmulas weren't such a lackluster, lol.
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If you can do that much damage to Winner in one hit and have accrued all those items, I'm amazed you haven't steamrolled him yet. O_O
But anyway, I always have Iku out to handle all my ATK/MAG buffing needs, along with switches. It's not a sort of buff that really needs Ran's all-targetting low number buffs anyway.
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It's weird to not use Yukari...
And if you try to do this battle without maintaining defensive buffs you'll get your ass kicked. Unless of course you're just way overleveled. But I'd certainly open with defensive spells. The fact that he heals himself is precisely why you don't want to try to win through sheer offense. It takes so long to kill him that you really need to be able to last indefinitely. Also I believe he's got a single target "you die" spell, so keeping Reimu out at all times might be a bad idea.
But if you can do a 10th of his health in one hit then really you should just go kill him now.
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I was firing Megawatt Linear Gun for about 4 million damage after Thundercloud Stickleback buff when I fought ***WINNER***, and I did nothing but build Nitori's ATK the entire game. If you're doing more than that, I think you'll be fine.
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I admit: I like iku's buff more than ran's. but I told myself I'd keep the current party until I beat him (which I have done now, more to that in a bit). I already did new game+ for the main game twice and I'm on my third run (now I have every character covered up), and I know how efficient iku is, but better than the one time world shaking military rule or ran. I don't think there is anyone who could really give iku a run for her money when it comes to offensive buffing...if you have PAR resistant gear, at least
I don't think it's weird to not use yukari. I found her to be somewhat subpar in terms of survivability, in which Ran is a lot more efficient, at least defense wise...plus, she#s faster too. I know that spiriting away can pull off some insane moves, but I never got the timing down to do so, so I ditched her right before beating the main game.
to the battle itself: it was longer than I expected, as the winner used his weak healing spell 3x and the stronger one 1x, making itaround 50 (?) million more damage I had to deal.
unsurprinsingly, Reimu survived and didn't get much damage at all. Sure, I lost Flandre and nitori because I miscounted his HP and laevantein screwed those 2, but hey, everyone else survived. and while I did bother to set up defenses in the beginning (sed ran to get everyone till 100&), I didn't refresh them. Youmu did as expected: taking some more damage from the magic, but basically nothing from physical attacks, aside from the piercing ones. Reimu provided healing and stood up to WINNER pretty well, not receiving any severe damage even once. she's a better tank than youmu or komachi :V
as for offense: I made sure to buff everyone till 100%, fire some nukes at safe times and swap Ran back in for more offensive buff. she could take the hits well, since I build her defensively.
I didn't do quite as uch damage with 180% as I expected, the difference was slim, though. instead of 8-9 million, I ranged from 7.5 million to 8.3 million or so (with youmu, eiki, nitori and Flan, at least). yuka's master spark seemed disappointing, as she barely scratched 6.5 milion and the buff on aya...well, she has 15k speed, the buff wore off before I would realize.
I think I spent too much time looking for items, because it felt somewhat easy, opposed to what I expected. yes, he was strong, but he could barely scratch my characters when he used a magic spell on the MND strong ones and physical attacks for the DEF strong ones. I might for for another couple of fight. just to get the regalia and having a proper challenge.
-
the buff on aya...well, she has 15k speed, the buff wore off before I would realize.
Aya deals AMAZING damage (She's like Chen is during the main game, except BETTER), but you have to have Iku or Keine out keeping her ATK buff up or she'll lose it all while spamming Peerless Wind God at permanent 100% speed boost.
And yeah, sounds like you spent a loooot more time grinding(Item Hunting, same thing :V) then you needed to. And I can tell you from experience; after several more wins against him he won't really be any harder, not yet. I stopped fighting him because I could beat the fight without even using Switch, and it was just boring and tedious.
-
yep. aya'S amazing for different reasons than nitori is. Aya still managed a million damage per hit, but she isn't really durable, but even when the winner had only half of his gauge, a 100% speed buffed aya with 15k speed is just so fast that I could easily attack 7-8 times, before he got another turn. so it was like shooting a full-buffed megawatt
I very likely did, indeed, but it made a difficult battle turn pretty easy, so I suppose I don't mind too much? I will see what happens after 10 wins and if he's notnotably stronge rby then, I will just stop. with a rising percentage, I should get the item then, anyway. but I'll do that just occasionally and concentrate on my current playthrough, in which I am using the remaining characters (and some for the 2nd time). the main game shouldn't pose a problem, I suppose.
-
OK so does anyone know a good way to grind easier? I'm on floor 30 and I already beat all of the V.2 bloodstained bosses.
-
Grind on the 27th floor. 29th floor gives slightly better exp, but those naked women on floor 27 give an absurd amount of skillpoints (for god knows what reason). If you can kill the stuff on 30th floor quickly then grind there.
-
Does anyone know what to do with the cheat table for special disk? When I download it I get an index.PHP. What do I do now?
-
The link in the OP goes to an old post with the download. I don't know why it would give you what you got.
-
The link in the OP goes to an old post with the download. I don't know why it would give you what you got.
Do you have an alternate download link?
-
Direct link (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6229.0;attach=7352)
Load it in Cheat Engine and it should work. Bear in mind it may not have the right addresses if your OS isn't XP.
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Direct link (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6229.0;attach=7352)
Load it in Cheat Engine and it should work. Bear in mind it may not have the right addresses if your OS isn't XP.
I can go to the thread but, when I click on the download link I get an Index.PHP.
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Re-attached. If you still can't get it, maybe you need 10 posts before the forum will let you.
-
Does anyone have a strategy for dual hibachis. I just beat Serpent of Chaos at level 270. My party is Meiling, Remilia, Eiki, Reimu, Marisa, Alice, Patchy, Flan, Yukari, Suika, Kaguya, and Aya. Reimu is at Level 282
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I just beat Serpent of Chaos at level 270.
what the fuck
-
what the fuck
-
what the fuck
Skillpoints. Because of skillpoints I was able to do Rinnosuke at about level 60.
-
Oh god that's a high level ( 282? )
-
Oh god that's a high level ( 282? )
Not when you consider most people reach like level 400+ before beating Serpent of Chaos!
-
Not when you consider most people reach like level 400+ before beating Serpent of Chaos!
The fuck!? Level 400 and up!? You mean like this dude ( Read his levels in the description. ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUH9cM_-j_A
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Yes, like that dude. I was at a similar level to him (a little lower) when -I- beat the Serpent.
That is why "what the fuck" :V
-
Ehehehe I just beat the hibachis with no deaths but, a bunch of close calls. So anyone have a strategy ***WINNER***?
-
Re-attached. If you still can't get it, maybe you need 10 posts before the forum will let you.
10 posts and I still can't get i'll just give up on it.
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Ehehehe I just beat the hibachis with no deaths but, a bunch of close calls. So anyone have a strategy ***WINNER***?
Ordinarily I'd say get to level 600, but what are you, cheating or something? You can't just say "skillpoints."
-
If you cheat with enough skillpoints, it will work. I'm level 500ish with about 300 skill levels in Attack and Defense or something. I'm sure
skill levels will mitigate any levels you need if your skill levels are sufficiently high.
-
Character levels increase your base stat values for the calculations. You need character and skill levels to beat the game with pure stats.
Team (9) with about 400 levels in their main attack and defenses only beat SoC when they were over level 300. But in my case, sheer stats advantage had to make up for the limited strategy.
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10 posts and I still can't get i'll just give up on it.
Do you actually have Cheat Engine?
-
there is also the possibility of him using old skillpoints and items. new game+
I did that once and did not need to grind at all. never. I beat rinnosuke on level 55 and maribel on level 70, at most. I did not even need to wait long until I could take on Baal avatar. it'S possible without cheating.
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He was making it sound as though he had never been through the extra floors before, but if he wasn't cheating that's what he must have done I guess.
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Meanwhile, back at the house...
Levi is still grinding for Youmu :U
-
For some reason, right now I feel tempted to replace the character portraits with those of non-Touhou characters just for fun.
Who would be a good fit given the existing abilities and animations?
-
Advance Wars characters. I'd love to see that. There certainly are enough of them.
-
Robot Masters. Don't know what you'd do for Reimu, but a lot of the others seem to match up decently. The only question is whether Marisa or Nitori gets to be Megaman.
-
There's also the obvious Dio Brando for Sakuya.
-
Sadly, my computer crashed this past week, and I lost everything on my hard drive. That includes all of my LoT save files, lol.
Well, I suppose now's as good a time as any to start a new game.
-
I'd imagine you lost the saves for a whole bunch of other stuff too. Tragedy man :/
-
Sadly, my computer crashed this past week, and I lost everything on my hard drive. That includes all of my LoT save files, lol.
Well, I suppose now's as good a time as any to start a new game.
Bummer, man.
Now that I feel like getting back to it, AGAIN. I might go with the Robot Master idea... but I can't make portraits for my own good T-T
-
Picking this game up again after misplacing it for a while, decided to do a run with characters that have high TP because I hate having 6-10 TP characters in party and having to go home every few battles >:C
Regardless, I am about to distribute my skill points equally to everyone in my party before heading out to floor one. Normally I just skill point them in one or two stats for the whole game, like spending magic and speed only on Sanae, but then I came across Remilia. I'm not sure how to put my skill points into the vampire, since she excels in many things. I'd rather conserve them and not spend unnecessarily early on, so what does one generally drop their skill points for Remilia in? She looks like her stats do well in too many things ffffs
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Probably defense. She is ultimately a tank, after all. She's pretty fast and can dish out some damage, but I don't think she can go too far in that direction, and you may end up using her speed for switching anyway. It's not like I'm a guru though, that's just what I found her to be best at in my own playthrough.
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For Remilia, I dump into Attack purely. The basic idea, I think, is either Pure Attack, Pure Tank(DEF and MND) or Pure Defense. But again, I use Pure Attack, as she is your first, and only, solid ATK-attacker for several floors(your next ones being Yuugi and Komachi, pending on your idea of 'solid'), best to make her last out, lest you run into something Low-DEF High-MND and have a Composite or MAG based party :ohdear:
And, just for the sake of giving a simple idea of my own setup: Meiling: ATK/DEF/HP, Tenshi: DEF/MND/ATK, mostly everyone else: Main Offensive Stat. You might be surprised how effective it can be XD
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This may seem like a rather idiotic question, but does the Special Disk run on XP?
-
This may seem like a rather idiotic question, but does the Special Disk run on XP?
Yes!
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Yes!
Perfect! Thank you so much.
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Okay, been trying to use Google Translate(lolol) to get an vague idea on what sort of damage
Astronomical Entombing and Hourai Barrage
would deal from Boss!Eirin and Boss!Kaguya, v1 of each.
If my understanding is correct, at all, both moves completly ignore MND, and would deal about 10800 and 7200 before Affinity kicks in.
Can anyone confirm/deny this value with some maths/values? And if deny, can you provide more accuract numbers?
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Going off the database included with special disk, I get 6426 (1360 MAG, with a 1.35x MAG multiplier and a 3.5x damage multiplier - 1360 x 1.35 x 3.5 = 6426) and 5580 (1240 MAG, with a 1.5x MAG multiplier and a 3.0x damage multiplier - 1240 x 1.5 x 3 = 5580), respectively, for those two.
You're correct on them ignoring def/mnd though.
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Hmm, I've been wondering. Is there any way to change the appearance of vanilla
Rinnosuke
and psycho Maribel
?
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Okay, I was doing Boss Rush, and I got to
Maribel
. I was pretty bloody powerful, even if Maribel
was at 100% buffs everything, I'd be taking 0s.
Maribel
is summoning the mooks, I'm blasting away with full ATK Buffed Nitori and her Megawatt. The first mook died, before all three had been summoned. Maribel
gets a turn, was probly gonna summon the third... game crashed. I am not kidding, I got a popup saying that "thLabyrinth_ver3 has stopped working" or w/e XD
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Maybe the crash was because you killed the summon before the others came out. As I recall you're not supposed to be able to do that...
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Ugh, made it to 27F, and the map on the japanese wiki isn't helping as much as I'd like D:
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27F is for farming. The map is irrelevant.
-
I found my way through, eventually :|
27, 28 and 29 are all pains, especially when you have to find the path yourself. Currently on 29 >_>
I'll grind on 30F thank you very much :V
EDUT: Made it to 30F
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Wow, you are the first person that would willing grind at floor 30 the first time you get there over floor 27.
-
Eh, the only real issue is that the enemies still outspeed Iku. Few more levels should solve the issue for the most part anyway. Besides, when someone like
Sikieiki
gets owned THAT royally... :P
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27, 28 and 29 are all pains, especially when you have to find the path yourself.
But that's part of the fun. :(
-
29F isn't that bad, actually. Especially considering it's the first floor in a long time where the spaces are a little more open, so you can actually explore the entire thing in a fairly short amount of time. I thought it was a breath of fresh air!
Although, after a few key party members were finished with, I had to start running from most of the battles until a trip to Gensokyo. 29F battles are barely any better then 27F exp/skp wise anyway.
-
My friend recently got this game, but he has version 3.00 when a lot of you seem to have version 3.01. He and I are curious if there are any major differences between the two versions.
Thanks in advance!
-
Some balance changes and maybe the instant battle button probably. Otherwise you'd need it for compatibility with the english patch.
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As a quick question, what's the general opinion on Eirin? Is she mostly just an accessory for Komachi, or can she stand on her own? I like how they pair together either way, seeing as the both of them can cover all stats with their debuffing spells, but I'm messing with this team of twelve:
Komachi
Eirin
Tenshi
Iku
Reimu
Mystia
Suwako
Flandre
Yuyuko
Marisa
Kanako
Utsuho
The first five form my defensive core, along with Kanako and Yuyuko more or less. i think I covered most of the bases - I wanted to see if Tenshi and Komachi would work together as a sort of tag team, like having Komachi come in for fun when there is any Rasetsu Fists and the like to Tenshi's face. I also really like Eirin, but I have heard some pretty nasty things about her, so I'm currently contemplating her usefulness!
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I'm pretty sure Eirin is just generally lame.
I have to question your lack of Meiling. And Eiki. If you're going for 30th floor you probaby don't want a trash clearer like Mystia either, since I don't think she's much use in boss battles.
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I think I have something against Meiling in general, but I suppose in the long run I would need her, along with Eiki. I guess I'll have to switch things up! I have a nasty habit of not getting past floor 3 because I spy something wrong with my team and just have to restart, because I really want to stick with a team of 12, but I can't seem to find one to stick to.
Mystia has her uses, either way! Her paralysis is helpful and the statusclear/debuff flipflop into buff spell she has is incredibly lovely.
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Oh for some reason I thought you were putting together a team just for the end. Yeah, Mystia's insane in the main game.
-
I'm pretty much going to run with those twelve for as far as I can (Probably floor 3 is where I wish I had another member) and see how it goes.
I think I'll switch out Suwako for Yuuka, however, seeing as I might need her pleasant Defense stat and the secondary Spark. Might be erring a little high on the magic spectrum, but that shouldn't hurt too badly, I hope.
-
Mystia is fine for bosses. Her single target is pretty fast and has respectable damage.
I'd question the lack of Nitori more then the lack of Eiki, as Nitori is much more powerful for a lower SP cost and much higher usability in randoms. Only worse in the sense that Nitori can't damage billion def enemies; Megawatt pierces enough defense to still stand up to Last Judgment in other cases. Nitori is just grossly overpowered in general.
One other problem with sticking with a single team of 12 the whole game is scaling; some people are really bad early on and really good later, and vice versa. This is partly due to SP costs (Especially for, in your party, Utsuho/Kanako/Yuyuko, and to a point Mystia as her multitargets are 80 sp), and partly due to how stats scale in general. Partway through with that party I think you'd start to encounter SP problems trying to deal with the random battles. As well, taking along Minoriko is -immensely- helpful for maingame, while being droppable in Plus.
Eirin is pretty bad until late in where she can be a defensive nuker with Astronomical Tombing (her heal only covers 50% hp and is very slow, when a single-target heal should be capable of fullhealing or near so), Utsuho is questionable overall because she's actually not very strong nor does she have good defenses, and Yuyuko, while being an awesome defensive nuker later, is difficult to make use of before then due to slug speed and low damage, especially due to the amount of bosses with a SPI resistance.
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Ah, I see where you're coming from.
In that case, if I drop Eirin, would it still be acceptable to use Komachi? Maybe as an attacker, I suppose, instead of an Hp slot. I also can't stand Nitori due to her nasty overpowered quality, although mostly because I lack any good images for her (By my own opinion), although I'd be okay with dropping Flan when/if I find one.
What would be suitable replacements for Yuyuko and Utsuho then? Or I suppose, to better word it, suitable Spirit and Fire nukers to use in place of them. I sort of want to cover all the elements in the case of 18F Boss. So as for the team once more, i seem to have something akin to:
Meiling
Tenshi
Minoriko/Sanae(I'm still thinking about them- I'm low on offensive buffs other than Iku and have no speed buffs, so Sanae might be a better case here)
Reimu
Iku
Mystia
Yuuka
Marisa
Flan/Nitori
Kanako
-- (Was Utsuho)
-- (Was Yuyuko)
Maybe I should fit Renko there in place of one of them. Or someone with offensive debuffs, like Mokou.
Thanks for your time! Sorry to continue questioning on this, but I'm sick of making teams and dropping them by the 2nd/3rd floor because something about them botehrs me. I actually really want to get through the game with one team XD
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Now we're looking a lot better :3
There's many people who can cover Spirit and Fire. Orin, Ran (Sorta works as a SPI nuke, but is wonderful overall, great composite move when buffed and good durability), Kaguya can do both at once (Not the best FIR but not bad) , Yuugi, Komachi (Atk-based Komachi does work well), Patchouli.
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Hm hm hm! Yeah, there is a lot. I think I'll use Komachi as one of my attackers, then drop in Ran and use Minoriko over Sanae, so Ran can buff and she can heal. Although I might note that Ran's composite spell is non-elemental, but I do love it either way because I love Magic Ran or whatever. Then i have one extra slot. So to sum it up, it comes out as:
Meiling
Tenshi
Iku
Reimu
Ran
Minoriko
Marisa
Kanako
Nitori
Yuuka
Mystia
---
So I think I more or less just need someone with Fire. I'm so close! I think they might have to be tanky on the side of Defense, since most of my group seems to be able to take magic hits, but not the other spectrum. Would Yuugi work? Or maybe Mokou? Are there any Fire users who actually have an offensive debuff besides Mokou? I mean, I like her and all, but I'd rather not have to use her silly Tsuki no Whatever Curse to get a debuff on while doing no damage.
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Alice actually sounds like she fits the final slot very well. I forgot she has a good FIR attack, plus she's got decent stats in both DEF and MND, can debuff both offensive stats, and for extra she's got good multitargets to use in randoms and can cover both physical and magical in that aspect.
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Oh! Oh my she does! Yay!
Now I have a full team that can do nearly everything I want and I will update everyone if I make it past the first few floors <3333
Many thanks!
-
Okay, I managed to defeat
***WINNER***
and on my first try ^_^
Now, to go for New Game+(if I can figure out how to get it to work... defeat the Final Boss again maybe?)
Trying to form up a team for it, and so far:
Iku(Tanking and Buffing, general use)
Mary(Self Buff, Nuking/Trash clearing, general usage)
Nitori(Nuking, general use)
Komachi(Sorta Tanking, posibly nuking)
Rumia(Nuking -> Healing)
Meiling OR Reimu OR(if she's as good as people say) Minoriko(Mainly Healing before Rumia can do so properly)
Reisen and/or Eiki
Are my current ideas. Any idea's for the remaining half of the party?
-
To make new game+ work you just start a new game and after all the intro dialogue it asks you if you want to carry over data from another game. Yeah, that confused me for bit as well.
I still wonder what it would be like to do a new game with only final-boss characters.
-
Final-boss roster means you have to use Remilia and Eirin. That really sucks.
-
Final boss only? So, no healers then? Unless you count the fighting games, where Reimu is technically the final boss against Suika. Though, I would normally think of only Suika as the final boss for Immaterial and Missing Power and Tenshi as the final boss for Scarlet Weather Rhapsody.
-
Nah, Eirin can heal, she's not gonna be any good for it for a while unless built for sheer speed, and even then...
Also, Yuuka can Heal, and she was an S6 Boss/Final Boss, back in PC-98, but same issue as Eirin, a % heal that likely can't keep up at all until later, and even then, it's probly only cause you have the DEF/MND to make most things trivial.
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Just discovered that pressing right or Z and S together on the SP menu will instantly add all of your points into it. Quite handy for those characters you never use who have 50+ levels waiting to be added.
On another note, when does 30F become worthwhile for grinding? With my Reimu at 451, 30F is only giving me about 60% the exp rate and 22.5% the SP rate of 27F, not counting items (which I've yet to see one of from 30F)
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It's hard to say really. The items are an important thing. Also you should run from the crappy opponents and only fight the one's who die quickly or give good items.
Mokou
is a waste of time, for example. Okuu
is excellent. Alice
is another one I always ignored.
-
Just discovered that pressing right or Z and S together on the SP menu will instantly add all of your points into it. Quite handy for those characters you never use who have 50+ levels waiting to be added.
You serious? I could have added alllllllll those level bonuses like that? ....... :colonveeplusalpha:
-
How soon 30F becomes good for grinding depends on the strategy you're using for the fights. I personally used Yukari/Iku/Kaguya/Nitori setup so Iku went first, then Nitori, then Kaguya, then Yukari, and basically Nitori gets so many superbuffed Megawatts in because of their extra turn granters that she utterly annihilates almost anything (Alice/Yuyuko/Mokou can be problematic, for example.)
I figured that Nitori was so overpowered, and Iku's buff is so strong, that taking advantage of both of these and then giving Nitori like 5 turns in a row is best strat. It worked awesomely for me.
-
Well, in the end, I...completely scrapped that team! Aren't I special? :3
On the bright side, the new one I threw together has made it past the first floor! So I am not doing terribly. It's:
Meiling/Reimu/Iku/Renko/Sanae/Rumia/Nitori/Kanako/Yuuka/Yuugi/Suika/Kaguya
The team is a tad low on defense buffs, but that should get a bit better once Reimu and Sanae's SP gets moving. i really like Sanae, and I figured she and Rumia would sort of exchange roles as the game goes on. Sanae from healer to buffer, and Rumia from nuker to healer. I also love the oni in general, and Kaguya and Renko's buffs should get me by in the early game too. I just find Renko's incredibly interesting, and want to find scenarios where using it is applicable and safe.
EDIT: Yay! I got a Para Resistance Ring from one of those moths you have to beat for Wriggle! I think those are rare and now Iku can buff someone else safely so it's great <3
-
If your intention is to use the best team you can, I would really reconsider using Rumia.
And yeah Renko's going to be useful since she's kinda broken really.
-
Rumia is really questionable until around the end of the main portion of the game, where her heal starts getting usable. I tried using her for the whole maingame in my third playthrough, using Special Disk, and... yeah. I just had to drop her, she was really bad. I picked her back up as I started grinding up to face Plus Disk though, because her heal is great for Plus, and I never regretted it.
Renko is indeed broken for maingame. The opponents just don't have the PAR and debuff resistance to deal with her. She still has massive SP cost to help counterbalance somewhat, I suppose...
-
I suppose! I mean, truthfully, for the most part on a whole I just like her moonlight ray damage, which is pretty high for a pleasantly small cost, I think. So she's mostly a nuke that can also conveniently clear multiple debuffs for me. Maybe I could switch her for someone else if the damage really isn't as good as I believe, I guess.
-
So, i finished the game. Now going to new game+ but i'm having trouble picking teams... so any suggestions? i will save 2 spots for remi and sakuya so someone pick the rest
-
I suppose! I mean, truthfully, for the most part on a whole I just like her moonlight ray damage, which is pretty high for a pleasantly small cost, I think. So she's mostly a nuke that can also conveniently clear multiple debuffs for me. Maybe I could switch her for someone else if the damage really isn't as good as I believe, I guess.
It's really high... for a little while. As you start getting into the part of the game that isn't pretty easy anymore, Rumia's Moonlight Ray damage isn't as exciting anymore, and it becomes more apparent in random battles that single targets are generally boring, while her multi-target becomes pathetically weak aside from the handful of low-hp-massive-def/mnd monsters. Removing debuffs is also pretty unhelpful, as it's generally way easier to rebuff instead of removing the debuff.
Plus, because of Marisa's Master Spark likely, a lot of bosses in the main game have mystic resistance, rendering Rumia nigh-useless until her heal kicks in as usable (Which isn't until near the final boss of the main portion of the game)
-
EDIT: Yay! I got a Para Resistance Ring from one of those moths you have to beat for Wriggle! I think those are rare and now Iku can buff someone else safely so it's great <3
Honestly, I don't think it's gonna help that much. It only adds 20 resistance and even my 30-45 resistance Nitori or my 54 resistance Youmu occasionally get PAR'd.
-
Oh. Well, 30 resist is better than 10!
As for the case of Rumia, if that is truly the case then I should look for a replacement in the meantime! I'll have to think about it, however, because I've got nearly all my bases covered. Maybe someone with Defense buffs, or Tenshi? I love Tenshi, but I fear Meiling outclasses her.
Either that or maybe someone like Rinnosuke. His buff hits defenses, right? Or any character, really. It's too hard for me to decide and just pick one ^^;;;;
-
my 54 resistance Youmu occasionally gets PAR'd.
...wait, what? Isn't PAR (along with SIL and PSN) calculated as a (100 - [PAR resistance]*3) % chance? I used Iku's buff extensively throughout my latest playthrough, and I'm fairly certain I never saw any of my characters with more than 34 PAR resist get hit by its PAR effect.
EDIT: missed a fairly important *3 in the formula
-
Yeahhhh, definitely impossible to get hit by the PAR of anything other then WINNER's Time Stop if you've got at least 34 PAR resist, and with 33 you'd only have a 1% chance to be hit.
aaand off to be dragged to family events
-
Strange, pretty sure I got PAR'd. Either that or I was messing with equips and didn't notice.
Rinnosuke's buff hits all stats, but it's a one time use. After using it, he'll ditch the party after the battle. As for defense buffs, Reimu and Yukari are more than enough.
EDIT: Derp. I realized I was using a 3x Gurthang Youmu (20 PAR) rather than my standard Gurthang, Rhododendron Dress, Immortal School Badge (54 PAR) Youmu. :V
-
I am seriously considering attempting that Nuzlocke run that someone mentioned way back in the last topic, only doing it with all the characters unlocked from the get-go with NG+ just so I have variety of choice, since I kinda want to see if Renko is truly as broken in the main game as is claimed to be.
-
I am seriously considering attempting that Nuzlocke run that someone mentioned way back in the last topic, only doing it with all the characters unlocked from the get-go with NG+ just so I have variety of choice, since I kinda want to see if Renko is truly as broken in the main game as is claimed to be.
Sorry but I've been away for awhile, but what's a nuzlocke run? I'd look but these threads are pretty massive soo...
-
Nuzlocke run is a term coined by the Pokemon community who seek masochism by imposing a very specific self-imposed challenge upon themselves, in this case when a Pokemon faints it is considered "dead" and must be released or placed in the last PC box.
I felt like the challenge was semi-transferable to this game by just not using a character ever again should they ever fall in battle, although you can probably go for double the masochism by never using a character again if they leave through TP reaching 0, although I wouldn't do that because it would drive me utterly batshit.
And Yuugi seems like a spot where you're virtually guaranteed to lose a couple due to Knockout in Three Steps being enough to kill anyone two to three times over.
And Nuzlocke'ing the Plus Disk would also be hard due to Shikieiki and Last Judgement being basically an insta-kill on anyone not named Komachi.
-
Yuugi is an optional battle so there's no problem there. Just come back to get her when you're well overlevelled.
-
Yuugi is an optional battle so there's no problem there. Just come back to get her when you're well overlevelled.
...I actually hadn't considered that.
I feel rather stupid now. But still, sound advice for a Nuzlocke run, where the name of the game is overlevelling all the waaay.
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yeah that doesn't sound like fun. I'd rather enjoy a good challenge such as lower levels with some game overs than one where I'm overlevel.
BTW, I'm not a brony, but I've seen a few episodes just to see what all the hullabaloo was...but yeah, fluttershy <3.
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Nuzlocke challenge just doesn't sound that fun in this game. There's so many random encounters that can easily OHKO someone. I like level up just enough so that bosses are still a challenge, but the amount of extra grinding you'd have to do to play it safe is too much even for me.
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I don't think Nuzlocke Challenge is possible in this type of game. It is way too easy to die and once you get to floor 20+ it gets even easier to lose a character or two.
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You'd have to over-level on wimps until you're sure you can progress with no casualties. I assume that's how it works in Pokemon as well though, so if someone likes to Nuzlocke, this game would work as well as any other. The whole idea is ridiculous in my opinion.
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Bleh, good point.
I thought it might've been interesting to try and force some character diversity and unconventional teams along the way but in reality it'd probably just be "grind grind grind are you grinding yet?"
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Well fuck.
Having problems with CE again (should I run LoT 3.0 or 3.01 for this cheat engine?)
All it shows are the question marks even when I select the game.
*why is it always me that fucks up T-T*
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So I figured while I was cheesing my way through one file with Renko (Galaxy Stop makes Alice surprisingly easy <3) I'd try out another team with...a theme, of sorts <3 All the characters on this team are tanky (And/or incredibly inhibited by SP costs but whatever <3), so this should be fun!
Meiling, Remilia, Minoriko, Yuugi, Iku, Ran, Eirin, Mokou, Yuyuko, Kanako, Yuuka, and, uh, Alice!
I think it should be fun to work with such a team, although maybe not! I really feel like sentencing myself to death with Eirin but I truly want to see how (in?)capable she really is! some other choices didn't particularly make it, either. I had to drop Suika in favor of Alice for Alice's debuffs, and Yuuka replaced someone else because the initial team had no Nature damage.
Let's see how this will end up, too <3
Also, does using Death to kill bosses inhibit the item drop rate? I feel like it does, but it might be me being paranoid.
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I doubt it affects the drop rate, but after the first few floors they become immune to death.
Also, you probably really, REALLY want Reimu. Her two support spells are just insanely helpful, and until late in the game, no one else can duplicate their effects sufficiently (And even then they don't do it as well as Reimu at all, nor on one character). She's also fairly tankish in her own right after she gets to grow some.
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Hum. I suppose so! Making room for characters is kind of hard, however, so I'm not sure how I'd fit her, sadly!
I think I'll keep at it for a while with this team and see if there's a point where I say to myself 'Man, i really wish I had Reimu right now!'
In the meantime, I suppose this is supposed to be semi challenging, so I may have to make do! Minoriko will just be...strained for a while! Maybe I'll have to put a number of skill points in her speed, too. Hum.
On the hopeful side, everyone should be taking relatively low, or at least manageable numbers so it should be fine. Ish. Oh well <3
EDIT: Well, looking around, I suppose I could drop Alice, but then the lack of a Mind debuff makes me uneasy. Would it be worth it in exchange for Reimu?
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No love for Shikieiki? She damages, ignores defense, sweeps, debuffs and does status effects including Death.
Ridiculous SP cost aside that is.
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MND debuffs aren't really necessary. I don't think they're as useful as DEF debuffs are, as high MND enemies tend to be more resistant to debuffs anyway. That and Holland Doll is fairly weak, with a relatively weak debuff on it too. If I'm using Alice, it's for the DPS on Return Inanimate.
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No love for Shikieiki? She damages, ignores defense, sweeps, debuffs and does status effects including Death. Ridiculous SP cost aside that is.
Shikieiki's SP costs are steep in Plus Disk, using her in the maingame is drastically worse. She'd be nigh-useless in randoms because after one or two battles even late into the maingame she'd run out of SP, and in bosses the same problem would still be very, very bad.
But anyway, Alice's uses are being a durable caster with a useful range of different damaging options to choose from, and ATK/MAG debuffs. I honestly never had much use for def/mnd debuffs in any of my three runs of the game. Their effect just doesn't amount to much, outside of helping with a superhigh def/mnd enemy, which are usually easier to smash with a nuke instead. Of course, they're nice on the side with a skill that debuffs -everything- (Or everything other then SPD), but they simply aren't worth the effort by themselves in almost all cases.
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I'm sure this question has come up before, but is Flowing Hellfire a Physical, Magical, or Composite spell? I'm trying to think ahead for my current party (At this point, assume that it's always something different because I am never able to decide ever).
Other than that, would Rinnosuke be able to tank as well as Meiling can, or at least somewhat close? I'm wondering about that currently, seeing as I've always wanted to pull off the thing he can do with Yukari later on.
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Isn't Meiling just vastly superior to him in every aspect?
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Flowing Hellfire is purely magical, targetting MND only.
Rinnosuke does more damage, has decent multi-target damage, and has World-Shaking Military Rule for those big flashy plays, but he's nowhere near as tanky as Meiling is.
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Rinnosuke's tankiness is more comparable to Remilia, except he can't buff himself.
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Oh :ohdear:
Then maybe I'll just stick with meiling and mess with the team a bit more.
Ahhh this is so hard ;.;
I'm trying to cover all the bases I can but this seems to just stretch me too far out if anything. Maybe I should just aim for certain objectives, like a healer, and not necessarily spending a character slot on a debuffer. bah, I just don't know what's like, bare-minimum necessary for stuff like this!
but if I remove Yukari and Rinno from the team, then I have:
Yuuka, Kanako, Mokou, Nitori, Kaguya, Youmu, Minoriko, Komachi, Reimu, and Iku.
Assuming I put Meiling in there, then I have one extra slot left. i gotta think about that one.
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I really don't think Minoriko's needed. I got through the game just fine with only Reimu for healing.
Mokou's just kind of plain. I don't know why you'd need her. Also, Your team doesn't make such a huge difference. As long as you have Reimu you're basically good to go, so I'd just choose characters who seem most fun to play.
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I'm not sure. If it's possible to work without Minoriko, then maybe I'd be better off.
I mostly want Mokou because Fujiyama Volcano hurts, if I recall. I'm not really sure how much, however! Her generally pleasant affinities and defenses also make me feel better. She's not like Flan, where if I mess up I lose a character for the battle.
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A character's power as a boss is not an indication of their power as a player. Mokou is pretty boring. You could easily have Suika, Reisen or Chen take the slot to make your team better.
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Ahh, then if she's really not that great, I suppose I should turn elsewhere, huh. I mostly picked her because I figured she would output some fine damage, but if it's not that outstanding, I suppose I should look towards other firey characters, like, Alice, I suppose. She'll probably provide more utility than Mokou.
I suppose then i can sort of drop anyone in the last slot, really. I /think/ I have a good spread of offense, defense, physical, and magic. Along with buffs and healing, so I suppose anyone who would round out a team would do, I suppose? Probably Ran. She seems helpful. That or Keine, too. Possibly Chen, or Suika. Unless there's some glaring weakness in the composition I should be relatively good, right?
Many thanks for bearing with me. I'm sure eventually I'll get a team up and going and get into the plus disc and through the game like I hope ;.;
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Well, seeing as the MMO I've last been frequenting kind of got "zeroed out," so to speak, I decided now would be as good time as any to edge even closer to completing this game. I remember getting blasted by dual Hibachi v2 from the last time I was playing, so I went to do a bit of levelling to Reimu 457 or so. Went to challenge the Hibachis, and got wiped on #2's dual funeral washing machine (not even Meiling nor Remi could tank it at full hp). I noticed I had about 46 mil skillpoints kicking around, so I decided to spend them all... :V
Rematch went a lot smoother because of higher defensive stats on my tanks, as well as a better idea of how to go about fighting the hibachis (mostly by starting the match with a buffing spree), which eventually ended on a not-so-smooth clinch victory with Remi's Gungnir (finishing off Hibachi #2), with Iku in slot 2, Marisa idling in slot 3 :derp:, and Mino in slot 4. Everyone else was dead.
Overview:
The Team: Remilia, Ran, Reimu, Yukari, Mystia, Iku, Kaguya, Flandre, Meiling, Minoriko, Suwako, Marisa. First four was my opening four, in that order. The idea was to buff up in the beginning using Reimu and Yukari to buff up defenses while Ran set up all offenses of my attackers in safety. Remi was there to just absorb hits and make switches for the first phase (killing Hibachi #1). I packed several physical nukers to be extra ready for the bezerked Hibachi #2, relying on Kaguya to lower the Hp of both Hibachis reliably, and Marisa to spark #1 if it was taking too little damage. First phase went just as expected, but things got shaky on the 2nd part of the battle, with several nukeres getting killed off early, as well as some of the more defensive characters, too... But, in the end, I won with a clinch victory as earlier stated (I have too many of those in this game, I swear).
Props:
MVP: Remi for tanking everything she needed to, including every single dual funeral washing machine, and taking over where Mystia left off after she died. Very impressive!
-Meiling for subbing in for Remi when she needed recovery and more, as well as providing minor healing.
-Reimu and Yukari for keeping defenses up, and for Reimu giving vital recovery, and Yukari tanking an unexpected washing machine (and a 2nd).
-Ran for keeping buffs going, and for taking hits.
-Mino for providing that extra heal and def buffing support.
-Kaggy for pretty much sweeping the first phase.
-Mystia for sweeping most of the zerked Hbachi #2's HP.
-Iku for tanking and for her Stickleback.
Slops:
LVP: Suwako for getting just one nuke in before her death
-Flandre for only getting two starbow breaks in before jumping ship.
-Meiling for dying to the first Dual Funeral Washing machine thrown her way (probably wasn't fully buffed / healed, can't really recall).
Somewhere In Between
-Marisa for ensuring that Hibachi #1 went down first, but was dead weight in the 2nd phase.
No drop, but I'm more than happy to have cleared this boss.
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Out of interest, how does Flan's Starbow Break compare to Nitori's gun in terms of damage? I've heard good things, but the formula of Starbow makes me wonder.
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Megawatt gun is just more efficient from what I could gather. Starbow is also a composite while Gun is ATK only.
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Megawatt factors in a fairly low amount of defense and over twice as much attack as Starbow, and Nitori has a drastically faster rate of leveling then Flandre, countering her insane ATK growth.
Flandre does have only 50% delay on it and a good SPD stat, but since it hurts her significantly she simply can't stay out in order to gain advantage on that point. Plus her rock bottom defensive stats, outside of a high cushy HP that gets torn down after using Starbow anyway.
Starbow is actually not composite, although Flandre's other two attacks are.
Unfortunately her other two are simply unviable to use, unless you can completely wipe the random trash out of existence with one go, which brings up another point against Flan; she's nigh-useless in random battles if she can't completely wipe it (Which, admittedly, she can do after awhile in many places.). Even with Starbow as a single target smash, it drains her TP -very- fast, and the hp damage plus her astronomically low MND and bad DEF makes it easy for her to die.
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Ah! In that case, I think I am finally almost done and can be satisfied, I think <3
Although the other thing I still have on my mind is if Utsuho really is bad or not. I just have the loveliest portrait for her and all, but I think Alice will probably serve me better for fire damage anyway, and I suppose my group's sp costs are fairly high enough as is without the bird coming in with her own.
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Oh oops about the attack formulae.
The only bird any team should use is Mystia.
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The only bird any team should use is Mystia.
Aya actually works extremely well as Chen 2.0 in the plus disk (So that she has the mp to actually spam Peerless Wind God). She's even still good against the bosses with some WND resist, I found out to my surprise, when I used her for such in my third play.
But yeah, unfortunately, Utsuho is just terrible. She's one of the very few characters I just can't see as having ANY sort of good use. Giga Flare could maybe be a thing as a rather minor use, if they didn't let the OOPS on Kaguya's spells stay in, making them all ignore mind (Except the nonelemental one, because... just because.)
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I'm sure Mystia is also a little better balanced on the defenses than Aya. Team (9) kept Mystia in slot 2. But by postgame Cirno took the slot and spammed White Album.
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But by postgame Cirno took the slot and spammed White Album.
I really don't think you can use Team ⑨ run results as research to apply to using them normally... :V
Mystia isn't frail, but not tanky at all, in a normal game (Mystia is still definitely a great character, not denying that at all, used her happily as well in my third play), and Aya at least has the rapefast speed with her permanent 100% speed bonus and low delay to switch herself out from Peerless Wind God spams, similarly to how Chen could switch herself out in maingame to avoid boss attacks.
Reminds me of my other discovery; Ran spamming her composite attack turned out to be a hidden gem. It was beautiful. And Ran's stats are all so good.
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I find that Mystia's bulk is pretty sufficient when you consider her speed and low delay of her dive. Sure, she can't tank repeated powerful hits, but she's not gonna break in a light breeze, either. No idea if she can hold up to WINNER, but I'll probably find out when I get there... In 100+ levels :V
Hopefully I can finish this run in the realistic near future and get on with a ng+ run. I'm rather curious about a lot of other characters (and builds, such as the aformentioned offensive Ran), regardless of how bad they are.
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Yeah, Mystia can take a hit, as long as it's not a nasty one. She's not really durable -or- frail. Her attack power/speed is respectable, she's pretty nice.
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Flan, if she is fast enough, can deal some *serious* damage in a short span of time. From my own usage, I can think of her as a faster-but-fragile-er version of Nitori(who I have also used and loved ^.^).
Utsuho, I used for a while, thinking "Who cares if the formula's aren't *that* great, it's freaking Utsuho!" and she preformed rather well(then again, I say the same about Remilia). In postgame, she's got reliable enough SPD(outruning anything that isn't Aya/Chen sort of omgfast), and can usually either wipe the trash, or leave them close to dead, with either Tokamak OR Reaction. If I pull out Giga Flare? They just plain die, unless they got some wicked HP and/or Mys Affinity And if Utsuho gets hit? pffft, like that's an issue, her defenses are naturally good enough that's not an issue unless the attack was something big.
Mystia... just looking at her stats, I find it hard to believe that she is as good as people say. I suppose she's like Reisen then? "Better in practice then on paper" or such? I look at her stats, and I think "slower then Chen, but better stats overall, but still nothing special."
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Utsuho doesn't have particularly good stat growth considering her leveling rate, and the formula on her moves is pathetic, so I imagine that your other damaging characters were probably capable of similar damage to your Utsuho... or else I don't even know, heh.
Conversely, Mystia's leveling rate is VERY good, which makes her stat gains a lot better then they look at first glance. She has good damage dealing and very strong spammable multi-target paralysis, which is great for randoms combined with her speed, and Ill-Starred Dive has a quite low delay in addition to her good speed and decent damage. So she actually ends up quite nice.
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...Bah >:C
Sometimes I wish there were more viable Cold spell users than Kanako. Cirno and Eirin, are, erm >>; And Suwako has a better spell! How very depressing.
If Futo or something was in the game I'm sure she might end up with one or something. But ah, there aren't truly to be any more expansions.
I suppose I don't mind - I love using Kanako! But being limited to her as your choice of Cold nuke just never sat well with me.
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Suwako has a better cold spell, but you'd have to go the definitely inferior MAG route to really make use of it... and Cirno only barely stands up to actual attackers when the boss is -weak- to cold. Eirin's is also -really- weak. I suppose... Komachi has one...? It barely stands up to the damage of her SPI nuke -after- the double damage increase, though.
Ah, I suppose Nitori has one that works if the target doesn't have great DEF. But... Megawatt. Okay, maybe the overabundance of CLD-weak bosses (And Yukari being about the only NTR weak outside of one of Rinno's forms) means that a magic Suwako isn't -completely- a bad idea. But, it'd only seriously be considerable if you were planning on dropping Suwako later. Because she'd be pretty boring outside of randoms and CLD-weak bosses.
There's soooo many bosses weak to cold though, that taking Kanako along isn't a bad idea. But on the upside, if you don't want to use her (Because she really isn't that exciting outside of CLD nuke; her damage is otherwise somewhat eh for a nuker, and while her defenses are nice, her HP is pretty low, so she's not exactly a tanky caster either), the game expects you to not have a CLD nuke anyway.
Which is most probably why like half of the bosses are weak to CLD :getdown:
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Alright. I considered this a while ago but now I'm actually doing it. My team consists only of final boss characters, meaning...
Yuuka
Remilia
Yuyuko
Eirin
Kaguya
Eiki
Kanako
Utsuho
Tenshi
Suika
Does this seem viable, or would it be senseless to bother? I could include Reimu with the justification that she is Eiki's final boss in PoFV, but I'd rather not.
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Ah, well, I myself would certainly say that is both a nasty and hard run!
Your only healer is Eirin and for most of the early game she'll only be able to heal someone for 50% once before resting. The team is pretty heavily magic-skewed, on that note.
I will say that if you can handle not actually having any real heals, then by all means! But you really might need Reimu or someone else to help. I think characters heal when they're not active, but it's probably not that much.
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Reimu is also the final boss for the scenarios for the boss characters of IaMP and SWR (Suika and Tenshi). And you seriously need her, especially considering you don't even get Minoriko or Sanae.
You could also possibly consider adding Extra mode characters, which mainly just lets you weed out the characters that REALLY wouldn't be useful. Maribel could also possibly be used, as she's the final boss of Touhou Labyrinth itself; and she's one of the few who'll be able to have their attack buffed, which actually makes her strong in such a team.
Oh god you don't even get Meiling; that's a huge enough setback itself, although at least Tenshi is available. If you didn't want a playthrough like that to be REALLY cruel to you, you'd really want to add in extra bosses (And -definitely- Reimu. No ifs ands or buts, you would NOT get anywhere without her. Yuuka and Eirin cannot even pretend to be your sole methods of healing, and you similarly need to have def/mnd buffs.)
You'd probably have to spec Remilia out for tanking with her levelup bonuses instead of offense, possibly Eirin and/or Yuuka as well. Eirin's offense is horrible outside of the too-expensive Astronomical Entombing anyway. And... without extra stage people like Ran, you'd be low on multitargets for randoms, especially ones that don't cost a bucketload of SP and can deal nice damage. You might want to go for a magic suwako in that case just to soften random battle difficulty.
I will say that if you can handle not actually having any real heals, then by all means!
This pretty much isn't possible without massive overleveling or whatnot, beyond the means of any reasonable amount of normal grinding. Things you have to consider are how hard a normal run of the game is... and then how much worse a restricted team is in comparison to a more optimal one.
Sure, Parallaxal's Team Underappreciated worked out, but the thing was that it was actually not a bad party at all. They were underappreciated, yeah, but for the most part, actually pretty good characters. And he had his bases covered.
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Yeah, I'll add Reimu and Maribel, which puts me at 12 characters. I've also carried over items from my previous game, which I can hopefully use to avoid being forced to overlevel when necessary. If this still comes out to be too hellish I'll throw in some EX characters.
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Mystia... just looking at her stats, I find it hard to believe that she is as good as people say. I suppose she's like Reisen then? "Better in practice then on paper" or such? I look at her stats, and I think "slower then Chen, but better stats overall, but still nothing special."
Mystia stats may look crappy, but I would argue she is probably one of the best, if not the best character in Labyrinth of Touhou. Her attacks do respectable damage, she can heal conditions, is pretty fast, can paralyze, and can take a hit.
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Mystia stats may look crappy, but I would argue she is probably one of the best, if not the best character in Labyrinth of Touhou. Her attacks do respectable damage, she can heal conditions, is pretty fast, can paralyze, and can take a hit.
Thing is "heal conditions" is a VERY useless upside if you are in the Plusdisk chunk of the game, and by that point, you probly aren't even seeing condition-using enemies getting turns, let alone using those moves!
Also, SPD-Renko(which is best Renko IMO) is also quite fast(like 5000 SPD when I took on Winner, similar ammount on SPD-Iku), can paralyze AND debuff every working stat.
Also, maybe my main team was just naturally rather tanky, but all of them could take a hit as well :V SPD-Iku was even my main tank!
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I have no idea why you say the heal conditions are useless. You only get her in the Plus Disk normally, and I find the heal conditions very good. Mystia's stats are crazy once you consider her leveling speed. She is one of the few characters I would call overpowered in this game.
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By lategame your gear is good enough that you should be immune to most of those statuses.
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>starts collecting the various postgame stars.
>realises he missed an item that can otherwise only be gotten on the plus disk floors on floor 18F.
FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
TRIAL AND ERROR GAMEPLAY, GO!
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Mystia's stats are crazy once you consider her leveling speed. She is one of the few characters I would call overpowered in this game.
Thing is, by time you get her, you already have about 70-100 Skill Levels in most stats for every character you've been using seriously, more if you made it to, say, 24F before getting Mystia. Only so many characters that I can stand pressing my Z key like my life depended on it, to keep up to date.
Also, Leveling Speed isn't exactly that great of a deciding factor either. Chen has an insane leveling speed, still isn't beastly. Remilia, Patchouli and Rinnosuke all have bad(or even the worst) leveling speed, and are extremely good to outright godly.
My little list of who is "OP" contains a whole two characters. Nitori(Iku support boosting this further) for one, the other being Eiki... sorta... Really, when no one on my team can out damage Nitori and her Linear Gun, even a full ATK-Buffed Eikioutside of the DEF-God of the Hibachi Twins, only thing Nitori can't blow to bits... yet
, it gets hard to see anyone beyond my main sweep team(Iku, Mary, Nitori, Eiki) as being worth any effort XD
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Chen has an insane leveling speed, still isn't beastly
Chen's beastly as fuck in the main game. But, the thing is that you have to consider their stat growth rate -and- their leveling speed; Chen has really low stat growth, Mystia has a very fast level rate plus stat gains that aren't bad.
Slow leveling people also usually have pretty high stat gains in exchange. So you just sort of have to gauge the two in comparison to eachother. It can be kind of hard without a lot of experience with how it scales ingame.
Rinnosuke definitely doesn't even really count as "extremely good". His damage is NOT exciting, and his tankiness isn't either. Both are nice enough (He's a good character, certainly), but when I was doing plus disk, he was comparable to, say, Alice. Except Alice had better mnd, which was arguably better for what I was needing them for.
Also, yeah, once you're getting into plus, you only need a few switch-in attackers to be set, the main being Nitori. What you would look for in others are things like being able to stay out and take hits while dealing damage at the same time.
A big reason for using mystia is the powerful group paralysis in combo with her speed and it's nice damage. It helps a -lot- in randoms, and she's still good enough for bosses, so it works.
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Does Parallaxel or anyone else remember where his tier listing post is?
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Soooo, I've just gotten this game but haven't started playing it yet. Do you guys know any general tips/tricks that would be helpful to a newbie?
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Evade does nothing, so invest no points in it. Focus on improving the stats that characters are already good at. The improvment is proportional to their natural ability, so you can't really undo weakness. For instance, don't waste your time on Patchy's HP. Her magic and mind are what she's best at, so focus on those.
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In a similar way, do try not to spend your level up bonuses on SP. Skill points are more or less fine if you wanted, simply because you can garner them much more quickly, but your group's SP will shortly catch up to the cost of whatever expensive spells they have and more, especially post-game.
Um, other than that, the wiki happens to have a lot of information on characters, along with some general advice somewhere, I believe <3
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Building your team defensively makes bosses easier but trash harder and vice versa. And never bother using the normal attack, it does nothing.
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Thing is, by time you get her, you already have about 70-100 Skill Levels in most stats for every character you've been using seriously, more if you made it to, say, 24F before getting Mystia. Only so many characters that I can stand pressing my Z key like my life depended on it, to keep up to date.
Also, Leveling Speed isn't exactly that great of a deciding factor either. Chen has an insane leveling speed, still isn't beastly. Remilia, Patchouli and Rinnosuke all have bad(or even the worst) leveling speed, and are extremely good to outright godly.
My little list of who is "OP" contains a whole two characters. Nitori(Iku support boosting this further) for one, the other being Eiki... sorta... Really, when no one on my team can out damage Nitori and her Linear Gun, even a full ATK-Buffed Eikioutside of the DEF-God of the Hibachi Twins, only thing Nitori can't blow to bits... yet
, it gets hard to see anyone beyond my main sweep team(Iku, Mary, Nitori, Eiki) as being worth any effort XD
You should try using Mystia then. Skill points isn't as important, since you can get her as soon as you beat the main game. The stage where you can really get skills points is stage 27, which beats earlier stages by the mile.
And as for Chen, I heard good things about her, but I haven't tried her, so no comment. Patchouli and Rinnosuke are so so. I wouldn't say good and I wouldn't say bad. They are far below Mystia in terms of how good a character is.
I don't even know Mystia is when I played this game, all I did was check up to see which characters are supposed to be good and tried them out. Mystia is one of the characters that I tried out and I can say, she is better than every member in my current party. Her attack is average to high, if you take consideration of cool down and damage. Her paralysis is fairly potent, one of the stronger paralysis in the game. Her speed is fast or very fast. This is with leveling speed taken into consideration. You probably want to build her as speed or attack, as while she can take a hit, she is not a tank.
All that said, Mystia obviously doesn't go well with buffs, since she attacks so often, unlike other nukers. So, there is that to take into consideration.
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Patchouli and Rinnosuke are so so
Patchouli actually has a unique factor in her fabulous MND stat, especially considering most physical attacks do not hit the back row, or barely do so, and even moreso when you realize... there's an awful lot of bosses in this game that have little or NO physical attacks, and likely few to no composites!
That being said, I've never actually used her past the main boss, and only kept her anywhere near that long in my first playthrough. But I've used characters with similar mnd levels via mnd boosting in levelups, and it's wonderful. It does give her a little niche as a good nuker that still has a massive MND stat.
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Does Parallaxel or anyone else remember where his tier listing post is?
Got it. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg508887.html#msg508887) I, uh, hand some free time on my hands and decided to wade through his posts because i am totally a stalker why not.
And yeah, as said, Mystia is useful because she is sort of a jack of all trades, and generally above-average in all these qualities. She's fast, not too fragile has a quick spammable attack for good damage over time, a heavier nuke attack of sorts, a potent status spell (And multi-target, at that!), and she can clean up debuffs and statii. She's like maybe a jack of all trades, master of some? That may be a good word for it.
I would also like to inquire about Yuuka. Say you're in a boss battle, and Master Spark is not a viable spell at the moment (High affinity, more weak to nature, what have you!) Would it be better to use Flower Shot, Gensokyo's Reflowering, or Beauty of Nature? I've taken to simply spamming Flower Shot (Mostly because I'm on floor 2 and SP costs urrrgh) but I wonder if using the other two may be better.
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If you're gonna keep her out and the boss's defense is weak enough, flower shot is probably good, just look out for burning through buffs.
For the other two spells...
Gensokyo's Reflowering has low mind piercing but higher damage potential.
The Beauty of Nature has good piercing and usually does more damage.
And Cirno is too low on that list. Even if Mystia's paralysis is better, Cirno's version is still broken as hell.
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Cirno can't take a hit and does not have a nuke to compensate for it. That is probably why she is so low. Don't forget that Mystia status resistances are pretty godly, so that means you don't need to wear too much status resistant items.
Patchouli actually has a unique factor in her fabulous MND stat, especially considering most physical attacks do not hit the back row, or barely do so, and even moreso when you realize... there's an awful lot of bosses in this game that have little or NO physical attacks, and likely few to no composites!
I used Patchouli in the main game, but I find her less useful in the post game. The physical attacks, even if they are rare drop her automatically. Her mind tankiness isn't as helpful as during the main game.
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Cirno is not broken in any meaning of the word. She's nice for inflicting SPD down or PAR on a boss early on, and inflicting PAR on randoms for a bit longer, but these are her absolute only uses, and other characters drastically outclass her in them (Her PAR is very weak compared to many other characters)
Her damaging and survival abilities are both abysmal, which means she has no use outside of status effects that other characters can inflict as well or better then her. She's good early on, but not later.
That tier list looks overall about right, although it's hard to tier due to the fact that character usefulness scales. Minoriko is VERY good for the maingame while not very useful in Plus, and Wriggle is awesome in the main game until... around beating Yukari, while still being totally usable until finishing the main game. And then useless bottom-tier in Plus. Yuyuko and Eirin (more Yuyuko) work the opposite, starting to shine in Plus as they get the MP to spam their big nuke, suddenly becoming rather tanky nukers. Definitely moreso for Yuyuko, who is a great Winner party choice. But due to the amount of bosses who resist SPI... using her earlier can be slightly problematic, sadly.
Also not sure I'd stick Maribel into low-tier. She's not that bad, and can have utility in dealing decent damage and simultaneously having a chance to inflict a good debuff on the opponent, sort of like Reisen, and has some degree of self-sufficiency with her self-buff, as it can be sort of awkward buffing switch-ins sometimes. She can stay out to take a hit decently enough after buffed, so it's viable for her to spam her low-delay skill out for debuffs as well, although Reisen might be better in that aspect. I'd consider Sakuya low-tier before her, at the least.
It's not a big issue though. As long as you keep in mind each character's one or two specific best uses and how they scale during the game, you can figure out whether they're helpful in your party or not, as the mid-tiers can (nearly) all fit quite helpfully into your party as long as you need what they're good at.
In other news, if Maribel, Kanako, and Yuka didn't have such obscene SP costs, they'd be fun to use in the maingame :/ They each do have a single-target affordable skill, but... all their rest are super SP-costly, in many cases on skills that aren't even very strong and would mostly have utility as your go-to normal random trash spell.
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Ok, I look at the Tier list... I honestly disagree with Mari being where she is. I don't switch often, and her self-buff is enough that she can 1st Slot Tank, or 2nd slot without. If I compare her to an actual tank like Meiling, yeah, Mari is no tank, but among who I use for trash, and as Main Team for bosses, she can tank quite well
Hellloooooo, she survived 3 direct hits from WINNER of all people!
. Toss is the fact that she was my sweeper for most of the Plus Disk, OHKO'ing most mooks without an Iku buff, and everything short of the very last of those crabs at the end floor with...
I'll... have to try out Minoriko more, tbh. I used her very little last playthrough :P She was okay when I used her, but she was no super star like I hear about her, and I was, reasonably, cranking her MAG up so that her heal didn't suck. It still sucked :V
What point, Main or Plus, is Youmu even good for? I swear, she needs like 500 SP Skill Levels or sumthin to have a decent SP count that will last beyond 5 uses Gods Slash of Karma Wind >_>
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At least in my game, Youmu is on par with Shikieiki in terms of damage. Her Atk may not be that impressive compared to the well known damage dealers, but her Slash of Eternity has very good multipliers. At first I was reluctant to use her, but in the end, going with a full Atk Youmu really did pay off. With her SP pool, especially at early-midgame, I wouldn't really recommend putting her in the front lines as a mook sweeper but she's very good vs bosses.
As for your Minoriko, I dunno... I actually stopped raising her MAG cause she can full/near full heal anyone but my tanks. This was when I started floors 25 and up. I just tested now and at level 754 with a mere 150 MAG stat and inferior gears (2x Ultimate ZUN Hat, Great Question's Mask), she can heal somewhere from 260-290k unbuffed. The average HP of my party (non tanks) is around 270k when geared.
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Do keep in mind said tier list was done up, around, erm, two years ago! Maybe a few things don't hold as much water as they did then, ahem <3
To be honest, I'm quite fine with using Youmu in the main game. Just give her a few sp recovery items and I honestly let her sit, Slash of Eternity, (Maybe switchout and back in to reset gauge) Focus back to like full SP, and then attack again. I think she just sort of starts at good, and then curves upward from there into Plus? Something like that <3
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It's the opposite for me. I used Youmu early game and she was terrible. The damage was great but with low speed and the ability to only do 2-4 sweeps before taking a backseat, I had to ditch her. The only time she started to show potential was during the very late parts of the maingame. Then I ditched her halfway though the Plus floors (I ditched a bunch of members barring key members to test new chars out) and got her back on floor 26/27 and never took her out.
That was vanilla New Game, so I really can't judge NG+ with carried over gears.
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Youmu is a little limited by her SP pool (A problem that becomes less of an issue as time goes on, making her slowly become better, and jump up in Plus), but her damage is up there with the best in the game, and her best nuke is non-elemental with two good ones to hit WND/NTR weaknesses.
She was okay when I used her, but she was no super star like I hear about her, and I was, reasonably, cranking her MAG up so that her heal didn't suck. It still sucked
You shouldn't need to pump up her MAG much to full or nearly full heal even without a MAG buff on her; and any buff on her should solve any problem in that case. Perhaps if her SKP on MAG was neglected? MAG equips could be a short-term solution until time fixes the issue. Unless maybe she's targetting Meiling or Komachi. And then, with all levelup bonuses slotted into MND, she's got a MND stat up there with Iku, very magic tanky. As well, her spells having very low SP cost (and low delay) comes in handy if she gets Magic Drain/Destroy'd or against things with Djinn Storm, a case where all your other heal/buffers will likely have little to no SP for their costly skills.
But, in Plus Disk, other then bosses with SP drain moves she isn't as needed. At that point multi-target heals+def/mnd buffs are more spammable and high-number capable, and I'd recommend using Rumia as your secondary healer to Reimu as opposed to Minoriko. Or no secondary healer at all. ...assuming you're keeping Meiling as your perma-1st slot in bosses, with her heals, at least.
And, Tangrelle, the Tier list came out pretty much after most strategies were figured out, so for the most part, it's fine; there's a few characters whom are arguable (Aya IMO is high-tier in Plus, acting like a Chen who needs Iku help), or who scale drastically depending on what part of the game you're in.
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Rumia is definately pretty solid no matter what ^_^ Main game she can Moonlight Ray things into the ground
oh Hill Gigas~~
, and Plus Disk her MAG starts to really show, to the point she can be a main healer(helllooooo 200k group heal!)
I guess my Youmu complaints are more from that chunk of the game, floors 3-7 or so, where Youmu's SP counts requires a switch out after just about anything not named Present Life Slash XD Also, she doesn't quite "jump up" in SP count in Plus Disk XD Got to 30F, she only had 550 or so, a count I expected about... 10 floors earlier from mostly anyone else XD
Also, I went the entire game, up to 30F, thinking that Reisen's nuke was Lunatic Red Eyes, not Mind Starmine XD I was disapointed to find out that Mind Starmine was supposed to be the nuke, what with LRE having (IMO) the better animation
Also, assuming good leveling and an offensive build, you can get *some* use out of the Attack command actually... if you have to. After 16Fs Double Djinn Storm, I was in a losing battle, Attack command was good enough that it got me the win XD Didn't really have any cheap spells that had *any* powerYin Yang Orb? Mountain Breaker? Short Life Expectancy? yeah... right.
, so I decided to ignore focusing, and just attack XD
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I would also like to inquire about Yuuka. Say you're in a boss battle, and Master Spark is not a viable spell at the moment (High affinity, more weak to nature, what have you!) Would it be better to use Flower Shot, Gensokyo's Reflowering, or Beauty of Nature? I've taken to simply spamming Flower Shot (Mostly because I'm on floor 2 and SP costs urrrgh) but I wonder if using the other two may be better.
It's pretty situational. General rule of thumb is Gensokyo's Reflowering for low MND targets, Beauty of Nature for high MND targets, and Flower Shot for if you need Yuuka to act again soon, such as for switching someone out. Flower Shot has the highest DPS, but the other two spells can outpace it if you have buffs (which Flower Shot runs down quickly) or if you have someone to switch her out.
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I wrapped up GoS sometime last month and wanted another game to scratch that RPG itch, so I figured I'd give Labyrinth of Touhou a try. I already spoiled myself on parts of the game with a Let's Play elsewhere, so I decided to make up for it on my first playthrough by doing something weird. (http://i.imgur.com/f5aOx.png) Long story short: I had a group of people I know pick my team for me and I'll be running through the game with them mostly blind.
What could possibly go wrong? I know I shouldn't say that, since I've a feeling I'm in for some real pain here. But whatever - bring it on, game!
I think I might replace either Eirin and Shikieiki, however - their SP costs are just too damn ridiculous this early in the game. That said, it was kinda funny watching the Yama one-hit Meiling with Wandering Sin; I guess they weren't expecting you to have instant death this early in the game. :V
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Dropping Eirin is...probably a good idea, yes <3
She's rather lackluster in terms of leveling, her SP costs are high, and her heal is really only meant for Komachi!
you may want to keep the Yama around until you see how much damage she can do with Last Judgment. It's usually quite staggering.
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What's with all these "first playthough" with all chars unlocked thing? Getting them manually's one of the best things in the game, imo. The starting team and early members are enough to get through early floors since their skills don't take much SP.
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you may want to keep the Yama around until you see how much damage she can do with Last Judgment. It's usually quite staggering.
Except the SP cost isn't shoulderable in the normal game and she's, outside of bosses, basically dead weight as well because one cast and -poof- no SP. Even Youmu at least has the double SP regain on focus to help her out. Last Judgement isn't so incredibly strong that its damage overcomes it's downsides, until Plus where the issues aren't nearly as prevalent anymore.
What's with all these "first playthough" with all chars unlocked thing? Getting them manually's one of the best things in the game, imo. The starting team and early members are enough to get through early floors since their skills don't take much SP.
Yeahhhh, I have the same opinion. Honestly whenever I tried a NG+ style I couldn't do it because half the fun of the game was sapped away. And the appeal of using Plus Disk characters for maingame is greatly diminished by their mostly ridiculous SP costs...
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Cirno is not broken in any meaning of the word.
Late response here. I'm kind of surprised to hear that really. I always thought of multi-target paralysis as being a very powerful effect, and paired with Cirno's good speed, she can usually disable the random encounters very effectively. I used her for most of the main game and I can't think of any other non plus-disk characters who offer that kind of effect along with the speed to use it fast enough. Yes, she not too hot for boss battles, but her damage isn't terrible when the enemy is weak to ice, and there are many bosses like that, and instant 50% slowdown with Icicle Fall is a powerful debuff. Again, just compared to main game characters, I don't think anyone else can lock the boss at bottom level speed like that. The debuff goes all the way with one shot, and she's got the speed to try again several times if the first few don't stick. She's no Mystia, granted, but I don't think she belongs in the fail-tier. She does her job pretty well in the main game, and can even still be used for paralyzing mooks in the plus-disk, despite the fact that other characters would be better at that point.
What's with all these "first playthough" with all chars unlocked thing? Getting them manually's one of the best things in the game, imo. The starting team and early members are enough to get through early floors since their skills don't take much SP.
And I'm also gonna strongly agree with this. The game's really meant to to played unlocking the characters as you go. It's more fun and some of those late game types are just clumsy early on. If it's your first playthrough you should really just do it normally.
In fact, I've ditched that "final boss" run I was doing. Whether or not it would have worked, it was just plain boring. Almost all the characters were nukes or some plain thing. It just didn't flow... or something. I may try a super defensive team and see how that works out. Lots of buffs and fancy moves going around.
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What's with all these "first playthough" with all chars unlocked thing? Getting them manually's one of the best things in the game, imo. The starting team and early members are enough to get through early floors since their skills don't take much SP.
I'm doing it more for the hell of it than anything, honestly. The sheer number of options and points and whatnot there are in LoT was overwhelming at first, so I figure I'd try something silly and run the dungeon with a randomized team while I learn how everything works. That said, odds are I will go back and start over from scratch once I do adjust - I've a feeling that you're right in that the game works better with a more gradual introduction.
That said: using some of the bosses against themselves is kind of fun, albeit in a goofy way. Hey Meiling, quit hitting yourself! (http://i.imgur.com/DGbsa.png)
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What's with all these "first playthough" with all chars unlocked thing? Getting them manually's one of the best things in the game, imo. The starting team and early members are enough to get through early floors since their skills don't take much SP.
I was at 20f doing a main game run and a few days thereafter my computer got tossed, which was incredibly demoralizing to my everything involving a computer, so it took me a long while to get back into it. (And a new laptop to use it on)
And honestly a new game run with sticking to twelve is just easier me to keep track of. I'm really bad at keeping track of character's skill points among other things. Maybe I'll pull off another main game run as per normal, but I always felt underlevelled trying to keep up all my characters.
It's mostly because I'd miss Mystia, Yuuka, and Kanako too badly if I did a normal run, ahahahoo.
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I always felt underlevelled trying to keep up all my characters.
Oh well, yeah, heh x3 I always stuck to twelve, it's just, I'd switch in new ones I wanted once I got them, and whoever was removed would then be promptly ignored forever. (Unless I brought them back in for Plus Disk or something, like the case for Rumia.) Very rare for me to bring out a character other then my assigned 12, although I did do it a very few times for specific boss debuffing related reasons. Namely pulling out Cirno to Icicle Fall on Yukari and Agaustrobauma, which she doesn't really need SKP levels to pull off. The latter I coulda used Renko instead but :cough: pulling out Cirno for old times sake sounded fun. I stacked HP accessories on her so she could take a single hit from the boss.
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Eh, I think NG+ without levels/equipment/whatever but a full party is more fun. I've done both and I simply enjoy having whoever I want right from the getgo more. Early game might be odd due to many of the non-starting characters having extreme SP costs to their "cheap" spells, but then again you aren't supposed to have 12 characters then either so it more than balances out. Youmu is kind of a lame luck-based fight if you do her at a natural level (reimu 9 IIRC, 11/12 is what happens if you grind a tad IIRC) in a proper playthru too imo. I mean if she decides to spam wind karma, you're pretty hooped regardless of your planning/strat. Or if her ghost ally does aoe poison very early, it is also pretty unfair, particularly because you have no means of curing, or even seriously boosting resistance to it early game.
But anyway, some people were talking about Patchy's usefulness. She's very useful from start to finish IMO. Silent selene is always a great spell with its high pierce, high damage, non-element, and good delay (not counting patchy's slow speed that is). Her high MND far outweighs her low hp and def for most fights, someone mentioned composite attacks, her mnd should be so high that she'll tank composite attacks better than everyone but your pure tanks too. Though sometimes if you fail to defense buff with reimu/yukari/ran/whoever first, what would be a composite attack which deals 0 to her might be a 1-shot later. As for physical bosses, it's true, she's an accident waiting to happen if a boss has thousand needles or arrow rain. But fortunately most with thousand needles use it in a predictable pattern, arrow rain is a 50/50 affair in +disc though. But honestly, I play defensively, and I like to clear the game at low levels. Truth is, most, if not all nukes, not just patchy, are often 1-shot by SOMETHING or another from most serious boss fights. The game gives you 12 characters to use in a fight, with only 4 duking it out at once. You can play 0-casualties hardcore mode if you like, but making educated risks using your characters is just part of winning imo.
As for tier listing, I'm sure many of you know, but I still think that a tier list is kind of silly in this game. There are so many characters, and so many combinations of them. Then there is your playstyle, level range. etc... Sakuya for example is flat out terrible if you're underlevel against a boss with even slight levels of defense, but if you're overlevel, or fighting something with no defense, she's a beast. Yukari is also likely awful if you have reimu or ran and/or kaguya. But if you have none of those, she's most likely going to be one of your most important characters for any difficult encounter. I personally have bias with my own opinions on characters in the sense that I pretty much always have china, Reimu, Remi, and Patchy. Between those 4, there is nothing I can't damage AND survive for a long ass time against. I like playing defensive, and those 4 can pretty much endure everything, minus patchy against arrowrain/needle enemies. China can heal herself, Remi can def buff herself if Raymoo needs to heal while def buffs are "only" at 30% or below .
That's kind of my problem with this game. I love it to bits, and I like experimenting with parties, but I pretty much nailed down the optimum party for my playstyle (aside from those 4, I feel like I'm gimping myself if I'm not including Ran, kaggy, Nitori, and Mino...Though I haven't played since it was discovered that Iku's buff was 70%...not 35% like the wiki originally listed, I MIGHT be able to replace ran with her, but I do make use of ran's def buff too so I dunno).
As for Eiki, I found her to be very useful the time I used her. Her damage is obviously good. Yeah her trash clearing options are limited, but defense ignoring is actually pretty useful for SOME trash...you know, the really really annoying kind that are otherwise the kind that might make you decide to just flee from instead.. But more importantly, she's one of the beefiest top-tier nukes in the game. Her MND was fantastic, and her hp wasn't shabby either. Best of all, BECAUSE she ignores defenses, you can forfeit spending level up bonuses to her atk, and the "gimp" factor won't be as bad for her since its effective damage from 0 is so much wider due to defenses not eating her atk up...err.. I can't explain it well. I'm sure some people who aren't real theorycrafters will think I have it backwards but I don't >=P. But yeah, again, defensive stats on a nuke aren't really a turn-on for many people, so whatever.
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but if you're overlevel, or fighting something with no defense, she's a beast.
nope
her attack stat isn't quite high, nor is Killing Doll equipped with a nuke-level formula, TBH Mystia is probably better although less tanky even on a target without real high def
Totally usable as an attacker, yes, beastly, uuuunfortunately not. It'd be cool! But :c
Yukari is also likely awful if you have reimu or ran and/or kaguya
No offense, but this is in absolutely no way true at all :V Even if you have all three of those people. IMO a party designed for the sake of being really good would have all four of them. If we're talking about, like, Winner only, then things change, but.
Although I never find Ran's buffs useful until later in plus disk (And godly for Winner/SoC, 80~100% def/mnd on everyone for the whole fight fff yes) she's still an awesome and tanky attacker with her composite spell.
And yes, Eiki is quite great, but what I meant is just for the main portion of the game (Not Plus Disk) she simply doesn't have the SP to be really useful in comparison to other choices.
But, anyway, there actually isn't as many useful "character combinations" as much as several characters capable of adequately filling a useful role for your party. Technically yes that's different character combinations, but it's an overcomplication. Playstyle does have a bit more leeway, but it does also come down to Playstyle That Is Better and Playstyle That Is Worse (But still entirely usable, of course) in many cases.
Sakuya will never be an ideal attacker. Even if the target doesn't have great defense. But she CAN be an acceptable attacker, and usable for that fashion, yes.
Characters can definitely be tiered in this game, because it all comes down to numbers. Touhou Labyrinth is a very number oriented game, when it comes down to it. Some characters are just not ideal. They're still, for the most part, totally usable though. If you love Orin, you could use her as a nuker, even though the result isn't quite as impressive as other choices, she still certainly gets the job done alright (And is great for the less-important-to-worry-about random battles!). Yeah, people in the low tiers can also still be very useful; but they don't have as high of an importance. Alice is a good choice for a stay-in nuker in Plus Disk, but her damage also won't be nearly as exciting as someone else could be (Except when fighting Yuka), and her presence is not going to have a large impact on the party.
The main difficulty with tiering is more on how much a character's usefulness differs depending on what part of the game you're in. Status effects/debuffs become overall less useful, while support skills, and defensive capability overall jump in usability and power, nukes become more spammable, and overall damage of skills rounds out somewhat. That would be big things that gradually occur between midway through the maingame towards the final boss of maingame, and then a drastic jump when you hit plus disk (Wriggle going from super awesome to useless once you hit Plus, for example. Although her usefulness takes a hit after beating Yukari, as well.).
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Evade does nothing, so invest no points in it. Focus on improving the stats that characters are already good at. The improvment is proportional to their natural ability, so you can't really undo weakness. For instance, don't waste your time on Patchy's HP. Her magic and mind are what she's best at, so focus on those.
In a similar way, do try not to spend your level up bonuses on SP. Skill points are more or less fine if you wanted, simply because you can garner them much more quickly, but your group's SP will shortly catch up to the cost of whatever expensive spells they have and more, especially post-game.
Um, other than that, the wiki happens to have a lot of information on characters, along with some general advice somewhere, I believe <3
Building your team defensively makes bosses easier but trash harder and vice versa. And never bother using the normal attack, it does nothing.
Thanks for the tips guys, I'm starting my game today. Wish me luck!
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I have nothing better to do so to waste my time I typed up some big tiering list with lots of notes and :shrug: (http://puu.sh/kygv)
when I look back I wonder why Sanae isn't in crappy tier, but I suppose it's because, it's not as much that she's crap as that Meiling covers your status cure and can do it more handily then Sanae due to already being out, and then Minoriko handles the actual healing part better (With actual dedicated buffs overshadowing Miracle Fruits too much for it to really be worth having Sanae in, it's slow and she's not all that durable and stuff like Iku is way faster)
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Sometimes I just wish I could drop some, say, Seraphim Diamonds into a New Game just so Yuyuko and others with similar SP costs won't be so shafted the whole time ;.;
I wonder if that's possible, maybe? Oh well.
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You mean carry over items? Yes that's possible.
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Ah, if I carried over all the items, I'd be too tempted to drop on the really good stuff when things got hard ;.; I was trying to say just the specific item, but if it's not possible, I can make do, I guess!
I've managed to keep two separate playthroughs going so I can always drop the one with Yuyuko if it's not going to work out.
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You could sell everything except the items you want to carry over. The game forces you to keep one of each thing, but you could then equip as many of those to the party as you can, since anything equipped won't carry over. You'd still end up with lots of lone high power items, but you could easily tell if it had been carried over or found in the new game by just subtracting 1 from however many you have.
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Oh yeah, Flandre is one of the few characters that you can use the attack command, if you do not wish to use Star Bow Break. Her regular attack hurts a lot.
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The only time you'd use a normal attack is when you're back on 1F grinding BP.
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Actually, some characters have enough Attack to get away using the command, if you did a character carry-over and are on about 1F-3F.
It's never a great option, but better then nothing as well. I've survived a few fights that would otherwise be a Game Over, or a complete mess, thanks to Attack command when I couldn't use a Spell.
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It can, used carefully, eke out a small bit of use for awhile. But by the time you're reaching double-digit floors, only Flandre will almost ever be able to really get any actual use out of it. Rising SP numbers/regeneration and harder times telling when the enemy is at critically low HP makes it less and less helpful to try and take advantage of it to save small amounts of SP.
That being said, even Flandre's isn't very strong, but it is good enough that it can be usable sometimes. Especially as Starbow Break will drain her TP real fast. She's awkward for randoms unless she can finish it in one fell swoop with Laveateinn.
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But to be fair, there is very little trash that doesn't die to laveateinn! The only ones I can think of would be the 20f guys.
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If you're going with average/slightly above average levels, the mooks starting at floor 21 and up can withstand Laveatein.
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Plus anything that resists fire or has abnormally high HP, of which there is many in the later floors of even just the maingame.
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Right, so I figure I'll give Magic Suwako a try for a bit <3
Her Cold nuke should have numbers at least somewhat comparable to Kanako's if you account of the leveling and growth differences, I believe. Her SP costs also aren't as restrictive as Kanako as well.
Although I will admit that Mishaguji will not do anywhere near as much damage as the Frog that Croaks Often (Maybe half?), it only really comes into play during Yukari and NatureRinno, so seeing as Cold affinity often favors her Cold spell, it should do numbers pretty much the same as Croaking Frog, right? Assuming the enemy in question is weak to cold, which is pretty common, I'd say. If I actually need to use Croaking Frog anyway, I figure I'll just drop in some Attack skill points and switch her gear and that would probably be alright I think.
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Despite kanako having the best cold nuke in the game, its damage is still not very impressive unless the target it weak to cold since her magic growth and level up rate aren't steller (plus the formula itself isn't amazing so much that there is a serious lack of competitive cold nukes in general). The only real reason why kanako isn't "crap" tier is because she's very beefy for a dps.
Given Suwako only gets 1 more mag growth per level, levels a little bit faster (maybe 1 or 2 levels higher once you're in the 100s), has a formula that is fairly significantly worse, but has the survivability of chen...I'm pretty sure she's gonna feel like a wasted spot for anything but trash.
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Yeah, Suwako's defenses are sad.
It can, used carefully, eke out a small bit of use for awhile. But by the time you're reaching double-digit floors, only Flandre will almost ever be able to really get any actual use out of it. Rising SP numbers/regeneration and harder times telling when the enemy is at critically low HP makes it less and less helpful to try and take advantage of it to save small amounts of SP.
That being said, even Flandre's isn't very strong, but it is good enough that it can be usable sometimes. Especially as Starbow Break will drain her TP real fast. She's awkward for randoms unless she can finish it in one fell swoop with Laveateinn.
Flandre's regular attack is comparable to Remilia's Spear the Gungnir, so it is respectable. But this is because Remilia was built defensively and Flandre was built offensively. Not that I can see any other way to build Flandre.
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I actually main teamed a mixed Suwako. Not bad up until 16F, but I'd say that post-Yukari, she was pretty much relegated to paralysis slave.
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Might be a bit selfish to ask but hope it's alright. I'm dealing with the postgame on my first playthrough and my team does not feature anyone besides Reimu that can actually heal HP: should I expect any problems with that or can I just go on? Switching out generally takes care of the problem but longer bossfights tend to drain the ressources after a while. Or is there a plus-disk character that could fill this spot?
On an unrelated note: hunting for that one item I'm missing for the star ... it's been two hours, get me out of here! Please! The grind just won't stop! There probably isn't any way to raise the chances of an actual drop, right?
edit: nevermind, finally got it ... typical. :V Should've whined about this much sooner!
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I went through the whole thing with only Reimu for healing and everything went fine for me. According to Serela, Rumia's heal starts getting usable. There is a plus-disk character who can heal but that's not her main attraction and it's probably worse than Rumia's thing. And don't worry about longer boss fights draining your resources in the plus-disk. Reimu's SP will be effectively infinite once you reach a high enough level, and running out of TP becomes impossible with all the skillpoints and items you get to boost it.
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Guess that means I should prevent that anything could ever kill her. Tenshi's doing it, sitting all smug in bossfights, not taking damage (not dealing any either but that's another story). :V
Thanks.
Generally speaking: are the new characters worth switching your line-up (and probably spending a lot of skill points)? Mystia is a definite yes, not sure about Kanako yet. 's alright to just speak out of experience if there's no definite answer.
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I'm not too sure about Kanako. I didn't use her, but I hear she's nothing special. There certainly are some good plus-disk characters though. Spending skillpoints on them isn't a problem, so don't worry about that. You'll get more skillpoints and levels in the plus-disk floors than you got in all of the main game floors put together.
I'm not sure how well Tenshi works in plus-disk because I didn't use her either.
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Tenshi has been a great tank but really can't dish out anything (again: nothing, nada, completely worthless, at least if you go with the tank-build, I'm happy that she can deal 30k damage... in the plus-disk, that's really good for her! :V). Which is actually pretty convenient, she's perfect for organizing the team, no second thoughts about any damage or status inflictions she could possibly deal instead of switching somebody in/out, ensuring a lively ensemble of many different nukes popping in to provide damage. Combine that with a few items that make her immune to any status afflictions and you can use her self-buff for 100% MND/DEF as long as you want; you might argue that Reimu and Yukari could take care of it too but imagine that her defensive buffs are running on a different "engine", so it's a lesser strain for them to keep track of the main-tanks buffs (and personally I try to avoid having both Reimu and Yukari at the frontline for prolonged intervals, losing both of them would be a disaster). Of course this is related to keeping the SP-usage of Reimu/Yukari in check so it's probably not going to be that much of an issue anymore.
But Tenshi definitely prevents sudden deaths even as the battle draws to a close (unless you're severely underleveled of course) - most of the time she is the last one standing in any boss fight (assuming that everything went wrong for the player) and it can take a long time until she's actually taken down (... you can probably restart and go through half the battle in that time).
So much for the advantages but attacks that completely ignore defense are a problem for her (so if they increase in number on the plus-disk... well you get the picture), even though she has enough health to deal with it (at least in my game). Her MYS attack that "cuts" away buffs of the opponent doesn't always work so that's not a reason to keep her either. All in all I'll probably drop her at some point in exchange for a lot of points into Yukari's defensive stats - I'll remember her fondly though.
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In the Plus Disk, defense becomes somewhat important, unlike the Main Disk, where defense is almost useless.
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Yeah, survivability overall increases significantly. For an example, Alice is tank-level in the back, and can take a decent physical hit as well.
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Defense is useless in the main game!? What the goodness are you smoking. Anyway i didnt like tenshi in the end because i find she did NOT have the hp pool to survive ANY defense ignore attacks other than that lolweak one from hill gigas.
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I think you misunderstood what I said. Defense is a useless stat in the main game. Mind is the only stat you really use. However, post game, there are more enemies that use physical attacks, so defense is much more useful.
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Honestly; I thought it was sort of the other way around; in the post game, there's a lot more boss fights with little to no physical attacks at all. (Although the ones that are there tend to be scary things like Demon Slashing Dance, Arrow Rain, and Needle Rain.)
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I am unsure then. During the main game I don't really notice the pain of having no Defense. Most of my party members were built with Mind and there does not seem to be many enemies that can do real damage. Once I got to post end game, that was a different story. My team was unprepared for Bhaal, or whatever his name was. I lack the defenses to handle him.
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How about this then: post game, a lot of critters have threatening physical attacks (if you let them live long enough) and bosses that use them have the potential to be really frightening.
Still, I can't remember a lot of physical bossfights in the main game and most that come to mind are in the beginning and/or the smaller* problem in the fight (Meiling, Chen, Youmu*, two of Alice' dolls*, Flandre*, Rinnosuke* [not sure about this one though]
, very few moves of Maribel*
... err, who else?). Not like I know what I'm talking about though. :V The first time I actually paid attention to the difference in my own party was due to Hibachi #1 and #2. And strangely enough Hourai Barrage hits both, which confused me even more about their gimmick.
i find she did NOT have the hp pool to survive ANY defense ignore attacks other than that lolweak one from hill gigas.
I'd say it's up to you to decide whether you spend some points into Tenshi's health or invest (probably a lot more) into Def/Mnd. Then again, whenever you hit 19/20/27F, you get more points than you could want so it's just up to preference. I've been gearing Yukari into the role of the tank since I got her, just like Tenshi, and she still hasn't caught up - in fact, the difference between the two is growing (they have about the same amount of skill points in both, though Yukari has a few more), we're talking about thousands - tendency towards tenthousand - at around level 210 in both Defense and Mind.
My team was unprepared for Bhaal, or whatever his name was. I lack the defenses to handle him.
Argh. All I've got to say about him. :V
The boss that Baal unlocks (25F) actually makes me use Tenshi in a new way - let's gamble and try to cut away his buff of 100% Magic (chance is at 40%)! Will it work or will we gain a new problem?! DokiDoki heartburn.
... I believe she once cut away a debuff. Great work Tenshi. Thanks, really. :V So dorky.
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The boss that Baal unlocks (25F) actually makes me use Tenshi in a new way - let's gamble and try to cut away his buff of 100% Magic (chance is at 40%)! Will it work or will we gain a new problem?! DokiDoki heartburn.
On the other side, I'm pretty sure that boss has a low debuff resistance :V At the least low enough that it'd be easier to use Renko (plus she can debuff and not just buff-remove) then rely on the 40% chance to remove it.
Okay, I checked; it has a 70% chance to get hit by debuffs, which is absolutely stunning for a Plus Disk boss :3
...as long as we're talking about Agastobrauma and not Bloody Papa V2, wait, it might be the latter. I think he has -zero- debuff resistance, though. Renko is like MVP in that fight and lets you beat it, like, 150 levels early.
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Didn't have Renko yet (went to beat
Maribel
Ver. 2 after Agastobrauma; pity that she was a pushover this time around) but I used Komachi & Reisen instead.
So about this judge, that Eiki. Yeah, 70-80k damage and ignores defensive stats? I think that's as far as Tenshi will go, for now. At least she got to be useful as more than just a switcher and wall via derp-cutting (de)buffs! :V Guess it's grindtime.
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If you've been using Komachi, you might be surprised how much throwing high HP bonus items from Plus Disk will go towards getting her to that HP number, along with some SKP gouging in her HP stat. It'll help a lot if you can manage that.
Decking out a few important people with resistances specific to her attack elements will help a lot too, and I know some Plus Disk items also carry like +256 affinity to several of them. It's the only boss I did that for, and it -really- helped out.
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I hadn't used Komachi at all and I was still able to bring her out for that fight with enough health to survive.
Hourai Barrage hit's both Hibachi's bacause it ignores defense, if you hadn't already learned that.
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There goes the judge (thankfully she never focused in this run).
I went through the whole thing with only Reimu for healing and everything went fine for me.
Did you manage to keep Komachi alive with just Reimu or did you use another strategy? I was forced to make it a shared effort together with Sanae.
Decking out a few important people with resistances specific to her attack elements will help a lot too
Had some 4 million SKP to spare. It's like being a millionaire!
P.S.: Shikeiki's natural mute resistance is pretty high... gasp, who would've thought?! :V
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I swapped her out the moment she was hit, then brought her back in and healed her with Reimu just before Eiki used Last Judgment again. I don't remember if she does it at set intervals, but if not then I think I just left Komachi in the back until she healed enough then brought her out as soon as I could. Items to boost recovery rate were probably involved.
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Yeah I find defense is still a very important stat for main game. Chen and Youmu are obvious... I think cirno's par one was phys too wasnt it? doesn't matter though. Yuugi's wind thing, orin, great stamp,executioner or whatever it's called (hugely important there), flan, Cootiesuke, all the bloody seal bosses cept for bloody papa (even then washing machine is composite isnt it?)...That's off the top of my head after not playing for nearly a year (windows 7 grr. I have to reinstall I think, if that doesn't work imma cry). Frankly, the only bosses where mind is clearly more important are yukari, maribel, yuyu,..uhh...cosmic, prismatic wind, or whatever it is, and bloody papa.
Problem with boosting Tenshi's hp. Is that having higher hp on tenshi isn't actually needed except for a rather extreme select few bosses. And her base hp is so low that you have to SEVERLY gimp her mnd/def potential to raise her hp to defense-ignore attacking survivability levels IMO. But yeah early game they aren't much of a threat coming from hill gigas and rinnosuke. I seem to recall great stamp's fist thing wasn't a big deal either (it could do it right? I forget if I'm thinking hill gigas again), but good luck with thousand fist khanon from that boss (though to be fair I don't think china even has a snowball's chance. that move is so way over the top op for that level...kinda like yuugi's ko3..maybe not THAT bad, but pretty bad).
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Double posting cuz phone editing is being a dork.
But i was looking at the wiki (net) and it says Yuugi's ko3 is fire. I havent played in awhe so im not 100% sure, but wasnt it physical and only fire in like 1.0-1.3?
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It's physical and fire. You're thinking of Nitori's murderbeam, which used to be fire and is now non-elemental.
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Problem with boosting Tenshi's hp. Is that having higher hp on tenshi isn't actually needed except for a rather extreme select few bosses. And her base hp is so low that you have to SEVERLY gimp her mnd/def potential to raise her hp to defense-ignore attacking survivability levels IMO. But yeah early game they aren't much of a threat coming from hill gigas and rinnosuke. I seem to recall great stamp's fist thing wasn't a big deal either (it could do it right? I forget if I'm thinking hill gigas again), but good luck with thousand fist khanon from that boss (though to be fair I don't think china even has a snowball's chance. that move is so way over the top op for that level...kinda like yuugi's ko3..maybe not THAT bad, but pretty bad).
This might be a difference in perspectives but I don't have a problem using another character when faced with something like Last Judgement. As you said, Tenshi is good enough for most bosses, but nothing is stopping me from using someone else when needed. If anything it's great that not every character can deal with every single situation, forcing you to mix it up a bit. But yes, I know, most players that have beaten the game prefer having their select 12 but I'm not there yet. :V Probably wouldn't take her myself for this kind of challenge.
You're thinking of Nitori's murderbeam, which used to be fire and is now non-elemental.
Well that explains why it was so effective on that fire-based Sigil Guardian on 24F, good to know.
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Labyrinth of Touhou should work fine with Windows 7. I am now using Windows 7 and I can run it fine.
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I know it can. I mean reinstall labyrinth, not windows.
Just that some reason a direct transfer of my game folder from my backup before I formatted to my newly installed windows 7 machine doesn't work at all...yes I got all the files.
Anyway I just got it to work again now (fresh install that is), translating as we speak. provided that works, I'll try stuffing in my save files.
edit: nope. as soon as I apply the translation patch the game is broken. Imma try re-dling it. maybe mine got corrupted somehow.
Update: yeah, that was it. my translation patch rar was corrupted or something. works now yay.
Another update: Seems that windowed mode is the only way to play..which sucks cuz I hate playing in windowed mode. If I play fullscreen mode, the game runs at 1300 FPS...making movement difficult, and menu selection maddening. Anybody know how to fix this? I tried running with old-windows compatibility but no dice.
Yet Another Update: Nm, force vsync on in graphics card settings. yay...Who knew there'd be a day where I'd WANT vsync in a touhou game.
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Heh, I've got that fullscreen ridiculously high FPS bug aswell.
I actually keep it that way though, because it speeds things up immensely. Grinding is quicker, floor exploration doesn't take so long.
Honestly, I've been playing it for so long like this that the general motions for menu selection at such high speeds become muscle memory.
Frankly, I think it is kind of amusing how much more enjoyable certain RPG's become if you just crank the game speed up, perhaps I'm just an instant gratification junkie who likes my games quick, but I'm the kind of guy who when starting an RPG immediately hits the options menu, turns the text and battle speed up to high and later on the battle animations off.
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I'm guessing your fps wasn't quite as high as mine then. I had 1500 according to fraps. I mean even if I hit a key as quick as I could, menu selections would move like 4 slots...the whole confusion of menu selecting wasted more time than time was saved, same goes for exploration.
As for grinding faster..ehh.. you know you can push 'm' and your next step is a guaranteed battle? that'll save grinding time more. Also, you can disable spell animations in the config thing....That kinda broke the game in some areas though, I forget what because I've never done it myself. I forget if 3.01 fixed those issues or not.
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It would remove "extra" effects from spells, such as Flandre's self damage and Rinnosuke's TP loss with his mega-buff. I think.
I don't know if it's been fixed either.
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Ok...so I beat Nitori then accidentally saved over the file where I beat her with the one right after beating Reisen (to show a friend my equipment for her). Thankfully I had a backup of my pre-Nitori save, and hadn't done anything after, so the only thing I'd need to do is beat Nitori...again. (and redo equipment, and re-level/re-skill Nitori, but it's not that hard)
I'd really rather not do this, so I'd like to get the Cheat Table working so I can get the game back as it was before.
I tried but was unable to, what I plan to do is:
1: Hack in 12 Machine God Lucifers
2: Put them on the 4 party members who were active at the end of the fight
3: Start with the same party, switch to the uber party, kill Nitori
4: Hack out the Machine God Lucifers
Is this a viable method?
Also, I'm planning on fighting Suwako next, followed by picking up Sanae. Is this a terrible idea?
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I haven't been able to get the cheat table to work this run even with the add/subtract 10000 trick so good luck with that.
Getting suwako shouldn't be a problem...Getting sanae will probably not be an option just yet. It most definately wont be an option if you're using a non ng+ party, cuz it'll require a very balanced party with buffs, debuffs, and very high initial fire resist. I don't think it's possible to meet all those requirements at your level with default party...assuming your level is normal for your floor, maybe you're way overlevel, dunno. But anyway, under normal circumstances. The sanae boss will 1hko your entire party before you get to move at the same level which nitori would be piss easy, it's that much more powerful.
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It's much easier to find the HP/SP values of the 4 party members and hold them constant. Let them cheese their way through the fight. Close CE when you're done.
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It's much easier to find the HP/SP values of the 4 party members and hold them constant. Let them cheese their way through the fight. Close CE when you're done.
Yeah I know, but without NG+, I don't think you have access to 4 relatively beefy people with decent natural fire resist that early in the game unless you're overlevel.
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You don't need high HP if you're holding them constant. Only DTH procs can kill you.
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Yeah I know, but without NG+, I don't think you have access to 4 relatively beefy people with decent natural fire resist that early in the game unless you're overlevel.
I buffed people's FIR affinity for Tam's Foe. That and I have a bunch of Bomb Rings anyway, or is 200 affinity and 2000 HP not enough to survive it?
EDIT: Solved the Nitori problem by editing her HP to 1 and attacking. Back on track with the main game.
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I'm guessing your fps wasn't quite as high as mine then. I had 1500 according to fraps. I mean even if I hit a key as quick as I could, menu selections would move like 4 slots...the whole confusion of menu selecting wasted more time than time was saved, same goes for exploration.
As for grinding faster..ehh.. you know you can push 'm' and your next step is a guaranteed battle? that'll save grinding time more. Also, you can disable spell animations in the config thing....That kinda broke the game in some areas though, I forget what because I've never done it myself. I forget if 3.01 fixed those issues or not.
Yeah, according to Fraps my FPS is like 160-something, quick but still manageable. And I like it that way.
And I know that you can press M to make the next step a guaranteed fight, it just makes battles in general go quicker along with fully exploring the floors.
I can't find the button which actually does disable spell animations since the config is just in garbled text to me, probably due to lack of AppLocale and my total inability to use it due to not having the damn language files and having lost access to the windows disc long ago, not that the config in general does me much good, since the button that is clearly intended to change the volume of the game doesn't do jack shit.
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Yeah, according to Fraps my FPS is like 160-something, quick but still manageable. And I like it that way.
And I know that you can press M to make the next step a guaranteed fight, it just makes battles in general go quicker along with fully exploring the floors.
I can't find the button which actually does disable spell animations since the config is just in garbled text to me, probably due to lack of AppLocale and my total inability to use it due to not having the damn language files and having lost access to the windows disc long ago, not that the config in general does me much good, since the button that is clearly intended to change the volume of the game doesn't do jack shit.
Its the second option I think. below the volume slider.
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I buffed people's FIR affinity for Tam's Foe. That and I have a bunch of Bomb Rings anyway, or is 200 affinity and 2000 HP not enough to survive it?
EDIT: Solved the Nitori problem by editing her HP to 1 and attacking. Back on track with the main game.
Sanae's foe is significantly nastier than tams... but really you can just try and see for yourself.
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Sanae's foe is significantly nastier than tams... but really you can just try and see for yourself.
Sanae's Foe went down easier than Tam's Foe actually. Granted, I lost 1 party member to each Flowing Hellfire (Youmu, Yuugi and Komachi in that order), but no one else got KOed, unlike Tam's Foe which left me with 7 alive (2 Hellfire KOs, 3 other moves)
Tenshi took more tries to get to than to beat (I swear, if one more Eye of Twilight uses Stygian Ferry on Meiling...)
so now I have nothing to do but face the Eientei crew...and I'm dreading the fight.
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Sanae's Foe went down easier than Tam's Foe actually. Granted, I lost 1 party member to each Flowing Hellfire (Youmu, Yuugi and Komachi in that order), but no one else got KOed, unlike Tam's Foe which left me with 7 alive (2 Hellfire KOs, 3 other moves)
Tenshi took more tries to get to than to beat (I swear, if one more Eye of Twilight uses Stygian Ferry on Meiling...)
so now I have nothing to do but face the Eientei crew...and I'm dreading the fight.
What level are you? Pretty sure something like 53-55 was a good level to go in at or something.
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What level are you? Pretty sure something like 53-55 was a good level to go in at or something.
42-48, Chen at 52, Suwako at 40.
Both Tenshi and Sanae's Foe were fought with average active party level of ~44-46.
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Just use reimu's level as your level gauge. As for sanae's foe, i said that under he impression that you were sill doing floor 9ish, not already pretty much done 12 =p... Cuz you were talking about not even doing suwako and nitori yet.
But yeah, once youre AT entei, sanae's foe is underlevel.
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Just use reimu's level as your level gauge. As for sanae's foe, i said that under he impression that you were sill doing floor 9ish, not already pretty much done 12 =p...
At the time of the post Sanae's Foe was the last thing on any pre-10 floor, then I spent 6 hours going through 10-12.
Sanae's Foe was a nice break from the switch puzzle.
Also I beat Nitori in a couple tries, same for Suwako before then. I played a lot the last couple days :V
EDIT: Well I'm underleveled for Eientei. Going to get Reimu up to at least 52 from 48 before trying again.
EDIT 2: Eientei down, 13F explored. I hate the encounters on policy now. At least the drops are nice.
[attach=1]
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Yeah, trash gets noticeably nastier after 12f. 13f itself isnt so bad iirc excluding those annoying swordfish things which can move first and 1-2shot everyone... And spawn in groups of 2-3.
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Is there a Cheat Table for getting all of the items on ver 3.01? I'm Trying the Axel one and nothing is changing...
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It's been too long ago and I don't have the time these days to keep the cheat tables updated. Do the tutorial exercises in CE and you can compile your own cheat table with a bit of effort. Find the offset for one item in the game as a reference and just keep adding 4 bits to it until you have all the items.
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I feel strange because I played this game without ever cheating. It's like all the cool kids are doing it and I don't know what they're talking about.
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I didnt cheat for my first 2 playthrus, but i do now just to save time rather han cheat.
1: kill boss, cheat their item if they didnt drop it, rather than reload and kill em 500 times
2: "cheat" the bp requirements for certain party members so i can do their events witbout wasting time, leveling excessively. In this case "cheating" actually adds difficulty since thats lost exp (and i dont grind except at 20f and 27f).
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Whoa, people actually cheat? I thought not cheating was the norm.
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@Ghaleon: Yeah, I guess those do make sense. Counteracts some of the game's stupider aspects. I did the bp collecting all on the first floor just to avoid overleveling, which was tedious, to say the least.
@Keine: I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. :V
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Cheat Engine was made for educational purposes. The applications of which simply happen to be cheating at the game. Even if the means are there, nobody has to use them if they don't want to.
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@Keine: I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. :V
Was serious about it.
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I dont think too many people cheat on a first playthru aside from MAYBE speeding up the stupid level grind at 30f. I didnt cheat that twice but i think i will next time. I dont really think of it as cheating when it doesnt make anything easier, and when i did it before =p.
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Find the offset for one item in the game as a reference and just keep adding 4 bits to it until you have all the items.
offset is 4, so the last value goes 0>4>8>C repeating.
Doesn't work for the plus disc items.
I did all my BP collecting (I only needed to go out of my way for Rumia's) while getting drop-only items on the 1st and 5th floors.
I have a Minoriko that full-heals Komachi and deals 10k to Mokou. I think I buffed her magic too much.
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Throwing my own hat in the ring with regards to portrait packs.
UPDATED LINK #2 (Now with 99% less 404 errors): http://www.mediafire.com/?ssx7tma7o7m7bnb
A portrait pack for those who want the pretty Sengoku Gensokyo art in Labyrinth of Touhou.
The pack's a bit rough around the edges IMO (I despise Marisa's and Aya's _Stand images but I'm a complete noob with image editors and wouldn't know how to go about fixing them to make them look less...screwy).
Marisa in general is kind of annoying, her Stand images in Sengoku are wide as fuck and don't translate well in the resizing and she also has the only face picture to not have a transparent background, MARISA Y U NO CONSISTENT.
Also, a fair few characters don't have pictures by virtue of not being in the game, fill in the blanks with other packs or something.
Also, Sanae, Minoriko, Kanako, Nitori and Suwako lack X_Stand images because I couldn't find them and I'm not even sure if they exist.
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As long as the picture isn't insanely wide, you can use a wider-then-what-it-says pic for _Stand's and it can work out pretty well. Possibly with a horizontal picture flip depending on what the image is like.
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As long as the picture isn't insanely wide, you can use a wider-then-what-it-says pic for _Stand's and it can work out pretty well. Possibly with a horizontal picture flip depending on what the image is like.
I've taken the effort of fixing Marisa's and Aya's images and you were right, even if it is a bit wider than normal it more or less looks just fine. There's a "Marisa is fat" joke in there somewhere from all of this but I'm too lazy to figure it out.
I'm happy with the pack at this point since I haven't just got two characters squished-as-fuck image starting at me going ಠ_ಠ
Link in the last post I made has been updated. :)
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So I just beat Eientei. I accidentally ended up KOing Reisen first after repeated Royal Flares while Kaguya got healed at least 4 times. I thought I was doing enough damage to Eirin with other attacks but I must have been mistaken. Reisen focused and I immediately finished her off with Nitori's cannon. What surprised me even more was that Eirin went down about a turn later, without ever focusing. After debuffing Kaguya's MAG with Alice trying in vain to survive the inevitable Hourai Barrage, I was also surprised to see Kaguya attack with Fire Rat's Robe twice instead of Hourai Barrage. Those 2 attacks gave me enough time to Silent Selene one last time for the knockout.
In short, I just beat Eientei while avoiding all of their uber attacks without planning for them at all, since Reisen went down sooner than expected. My question: How lucky was I to have avoided getting hit by Hourai Barrage and the like? Also, how did I manage to KO Eirin without seeing her focus?
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You messed up their AI somehow probably.
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You messed up their AI somehow probably.
I figure Hourai Elixir has a higher priority than Focus for Eirin, and after Eirin's defeat Kaguya skips the focus phase completely, going onto an AI Roulette. As a result it was a ridiculously lucky ending, but it was a good fight.
Have fun with 13F+ encounters, they just don't die.
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Nah, in my first playthru, before I knew reisen was helpless against par, I intentionally rush-nuked her to death first because her debuffs really pissed me off, and never got blasted by a super nuke. As for kaggy and Eirin, Id idn't kill them at the same time either.
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Just beat the Great Stamp, time for some 16F exploration.
It's funny how going in completely unprepared got me destroyed before I could even do a fifth of its HP but then after a little planning (max attack Suika spamming Throwing Atlas while Meiling and Komachi tank the everything) I won very easily. Wriggle also tanked a Great Tremor, surprisingly.
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Nah, in my first playthru, before I knew reisen was helpless against par, I intentionally rush-nuked her to death first because her debuffs really pissed me off, and never got blasted by a super nuke. As for kaggy and Eirin, Id idn't kill them at the same time either.
Funny thing about PAR, I didn't use it at all. My only paralyzer was Reimu, and every time she had a move, I felt it was more pressing to heal rather than evil sealing circle.
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OK! Decided to make my own Charagraphs... One problem.
I have no idea how to do it, which program to use, the dimensions or anything ><
Can I get some help?
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Use whatever program you like as long as it saves into png.
Filenames
Ｓサイズ画像は ○○_SFace.png 50x50
Ｌサイズ画像は ○○_LFace.png 104x112
立ち絵の場合は ○○_Stand.png 300x360
霊夢 → Reimu
魔理沙 → Marisa
レミリア → Remilia
咲夜 → Sakuya
パチュリー → Patchouli
橙 → Chen
美鈴 → Meirin
チルノ → Cirno
穣子 → Minoriko
妖夢 → Youmu
アリス → Alice
ルーミア → Rumia
リグル → Wriggle
勇儀 → Yuugi
文 → Aya
衣玖 → Iku
小町 → Komachi
諏訪子 → Suwako
早苗 → Sanae
にとり → Nitori
藍 → Ran
鈴仙 → Udonge
永琳 → Eirin
天子 → Tenko
妹紅 → Mokou
フランドール → Flandre
お燐 → RIN
輝夜 → Kaguya
萃香 → Suika
幽々子 → Yuyuko
紫 → Yukari
霖之助 → Kourin
蓮子 → Renko
メリー → Maribel
空 → Utsuho
神奈子 → Kanako
幽香 → Yuuka
ミスティア → Mystia
慧音 → Keine
映姫 → Eiki
e.g.
Reimu_Stand.png
Minoriko_SFace.png
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Use whatever program you like as long as it saves into png.
Filenames
Ｓサイズ画像は ○○_SFace.png 50x50
Ｌサイズ画像は ○○_LFace.png 104x112
立ち絵の場合は ○○_Stand.png 300x360
霊夢 → Reimu
魔理沙 → Marisa
レミリア → Remilia
咲夜 → Sakuya
パチュリー → Patchouli
橙 → Chen
美鈴 → Meirin
チルノ → Cirno
穣子 → Minoriko
妖夢 → Youmu
アリス → Alice
ルーミア → Rumia
リグル → Wriggle
勇儀 → Yuugi
文 → Aya
衣玖 → Iku
小町 → Komachi
諏訪子 → Suwako
早苗 → Sanae
にとり → Nitori
藍 → Ran
鈴仙 → Udonge
永琳 → Eirin
天子 → Tenko
妹紅 → Mokou
フランドール → Flandre
お燐 → RIN
輝夜 → Kaguya
萃香 → Suika
幽々子 → Yuyuko
紫 → Yukari
霖之助 → Kourin
蓮子 → Renko
メリー → Maribel
空 → Utsuho
神奈子 → Kanako
幽香 → Yuuka
ミスティア → Mystia
慧音 → Keine
映姫 → Eiki
e.g.
Reimu_Stand.png
Minoriko_SFace.png
Ok... any methods for cleanly cutting a background away from an image?
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You have to ask someone that can do art.
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I hardly am an artist but i find the magnetic lasso to be good for that for nubtarda like me. Dont have photoshop? Welp people gotta know what you DO have.
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GIMP or paint :V
EDIT: I tried and... ended up with a really grainy image... THERE HAS TO BE EASIER WAY.
Or I just give up -_(o_O)_-
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The paint.net program has a nice transparency tool to get a chunk of stuff out first (Provided you mess with the tool's percent bar to not destroy the touhou herself).
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The paint.net program has a nice transparency tool to get a chunk of stuff out first (Provided you mess with the tool's percent bar to not destroy the touhou herself).
Ok, I'll check that out, thanks!
EDIT: Any specific tool? or is it a plugin?
SEQUEL: Figured it out. Thanks for help!
UNRELATED: Beat Youmu extremley undernourished! (I think my highest level was 12) and onto Alice! Might run into Rumia though. any tips?
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Rumia is pretty easy. Decent MND will be more than enough
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Rumia is pretty easy. Decent MND will be more than enough
As long as she doesn't decide to debuff spam you.
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THE HUNT BEGINS (let's hope i ain't the hunted)
EDIT: I got Wriggle! But Rumia got me with her constant spamming of Demarcation and DSOTM
EDIT: JEEBUS THAT WAS CLOSE (yeh I got Rumia)
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Farming BP to be able to recruit Kaguya to have a better chance at defeating Yukari is so much fun.
100 battles to go until I have enough...
EDIT: Kaguya get, Yukari down because I decided on a whim to leave Suika in the 4th spot after Yukari buffed herself. She uses Double Colorful Light and I lost Komachi, Meiling and Suwako, but Suika survived to be able to switch people in. Unfortunately Yukari buffed herself after 1 additional move, so I had to Miracle Fruit (Sanae was a sacrifice in the first spot when Yukari buffed) Kaguya (3rd spot, last ditch effort), who due to the speed boost was able to go first and deal 45k for the finishing blow.
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Just finished Alice. (Lost 8 people but I got her!)
Floor 5 next!
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well, ive been busy with school and LOL, and also trying to beat IN hard (which im almost done!), that i forgot about this game. so, i decided to play to cool off from numerous frustrated attempts at IN hard, and got addicted. Here is where the question lies.
1: how can you tell how many battle points accumulated you have? I want to fight Kaguya's FOE before Rinnnousuke so that i have more exp
2: around what level should i challenge Rinnousuke? im almost done exploring floor 18, so I'm just thinking ahead a bit.
well good thing, at least the bosses after the eintei trio weren't that hard, at most 5 tries. Yukari wasn't as bad as I thought she would be. Flan has low health, so i somehow managed.....
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You can't really see how much BP you've accumulated. The only thing you have is that the character portrait on your savefile changes to match the person with the most BP.
Also, I recommend 100+. Rinnosuke's pretty tough, being completely immune to debuffs, ailments and what with his ability to just kind of screw you if you get unlucky.
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1: how can you tell how many battle points accumulated you have? I want to fight Kaguya's FOE before Rinnnousuke so that i have more exp
In game, you can't.
With Cheat Engine though...
1. Scan for value greater than 0
2. Enter battle with Reisen, Eirin, Mokou and Sanae
3. Scan for values that increased by 1
4. Win the fight and return to the map screen
5. Scan for values that increased by 1
6. Repeat 2-5 until you only have 4 values left.
Those are your BP totals for the 4 characters required for Kaguya's Foe.
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ok, just got kaguya and right now im grinding for the fight against rinnousuke.........
which floors are good for grinding? my levels are around 75-85 ish
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I'm pretty sure you should be able to beat Rinnosuke as soon as you reach him. Just put up defensive buffs. That's what I did at least.
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Cootiesuke is only tough at the very first phase, get past that and you should be golden as long as you know to ubernuke his last phase. But yeah he poses little trouble imo at levels as low as 90... However many people seem to think hes really hard, so who knows. Just keep def buffs up cuz it makes his composite attack go from lol i died before i moved to lol 0'd. His Tai slash during phase one stays relatively dangerous though. If you wipe and he used that alot, prob just bad luck, try again.
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I'm pretty sure you should be able to beat Rinnosuke as soon as you reach him. Just put up defensive buffs. That's what I did at least.
Uhhh...this is fine, except for:
Cootiesuke is only tough at the very first phase
this, but...
His Tai slash during phase one stays relatively dangerous though. If you wipe and he used that alot, prob just bad luck, try again.
this isn't what kills me.
I can't survive Start of Heavenly Demise no matter what I do, with the exception of having one character survive, then I'm forced to not spend turns depleting his health. Though I could techincally win by getting really lucky, I'd rather not. So, how do you survive it?
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Over 50% defensive buff should reduce it to no threat, if not complete zero. Just keep Reimu and Yukari on duty. It's composite so anyone with a good def or mnd stat should be fine. If it's possible to debuff his offense then do that too.
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+50% DEF and MND on Meiling...oneshot because I didn't have a turn to heal after Iai Slash. Ran had similarly high buffs and also died from near-max HP.
and when he opens with it I lose by default.
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If even Meiling's getting oneshot at 50% DEF/MND buff then I reckon you either need moar levels and SKP or need to do equipment or what have you.
That really should not be happening if you're even remotely prepared.
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Reimu was level 81 when I got there. I'm not trying again until at least 95. (Currently: 87)
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Dear goodness, reimu 82?! You must flee from alot of battles, because I was 92 in my last playthru and I didn't waste any time grinding.
But yeah, start of heavenly demise is a game-ender if he casts it on the first turn (if you're going for low level wins), that's just a no-luck thing.. But once you get some def buffs up, its damage gets reduced by a LOT while tai slash's does not.
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Dear goodness, reimu 82?!
Yeah...I beat Yukari without too much difficulty at a high 70.
I wasn't fleeing from most fights, and I happened to find my way to Rinnosuke pretty quickly on the 18th floor. Even still, 10 levels lower than where I should be?
I've grinded my way up to 87 so far, it's tedious though.
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Yeah...I beat Yukari without too much difficulty at a high 70.
I wasn't fleeing from most fights, and I happened to find my way to Rinnosuke pretty quickly on the 18th floor. Even still, 10 levels lower than where I should be?
I've grinded my way up to 87 so far, it's tedious though.
If you didn't know this, you can press M to make the encounter bar go to 200% instantly if wandering around a floor is too tedious and you've found all the nice things.
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If you didn't know this, you can press M to make the encounter bar go to 200% instantly if wandering around a floor is too tedious and you've found all the nice things.
Re-Really!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
like ihavenoname, i am also grinding (reimu 98, but i want reimu 100 before i challenge rinnosuke for easier boss)
almost there, but it was tedious. oh and i just realized to get to post disk contents i need all the items in first 10 pages.........do some bosses drop certain items cuz if they do i am screwed.
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do some bosses drop certain items cuz if they do i am screwed.
Yes, but there's always a non-bss drop means of getting the item.
and after the final boss there's Boss Rush mode anyway, and the bosses can give their drops then too.
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Re-Really!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
like ihavenoname, i am also grinding (reimu 98, but i want reimu 100 before i challenge rinnosuke for easier boss)
almost there, but it was tedious. oh and i just realized to get to post disk contents i need all the items in first 10 pages.........do some bosses drop certain items cuz if they do i am screwed.
Yeah, it's really useful if you need to fight a boss if your underleveled and your patience has run dry. (I used this tactic to kidnap recruit Rumia and Alice.
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I have found a risk-free method of grinding on the 18th floor.
I've manipulated speed so that Ran goes first, and Sanae, Youmu and Flandre all go in that order (speeds of 201, 200 and 199 to outspeed all the enemies).
Banquet of the Twelve General Gods
Miracle Fruit on Flandre
God's Slash of Karma Wind
Laevetain
This kills everything, and I can do it twice per trip to the floor. I go through an average of 2 battles per minutes, meaning about an hour of grinding should put me well above the level I need to be at.
and I'm also getting a ton of nice random drops (Blue Saber, Floppy Rabbit Ear Headband...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ9jFkVaSwI
video example of what I'm doing.
and Reimu has now reached level 97, up from 81 a few days ago.
Going up to 100 before trying Rinnosuke again. Which of his elemental forms is most dangerous? I've managed to beat all of them except SPI because he never pulls it out.
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I uhh.. don't really remember any of them being very dangerous. I had water be annoying once cuz he used sealing slash and managed to silence my entire party once. But even after that he never managed to kill anybody cuz all his elemental forms have pretty feeble offense.
I seriously want to know how you got to him at reimu level 82.. are you not fully exploring every floor for treasure?.
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The only time he killed someone for me was in his nature form, where he did something that killed Patchy (probably the word for world is forest). They're all pretty much the same though. Maybe wind form can paralyze you, but you should be immune anyway.
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I seriously want to know how you got to him at reimu level 82.. are you not fully exploring every floor for treasure?.
I used a map to blitz through floor 17 after beating Yukari at around level 75 in 1 prepared try.
Then I used a map for the second half of floor 18 to find the quickest possible route through the treasures and relay point.
I also escaped from most Sorceress battles after they made me game over repeatedly.
The only time he killed someone for me was in his nature form
Funny, I beat him just now and his nature form was the only time he scored a KO, and it was on Youmu because he poisoned 3 party members the turn before.
Video of the fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB3UyVMSs4Y
I hated Nature Rinnosuke just because of Word of Forest or whatever.
It did so much damage and I cried ;.;
I hated the Mystic form because it's uber attack always KOed someone Meiling until this fight.
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I hated Nature Rinnosuke just because of Word of Forest or whatever.
It did so much damage and I cried ;.;
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Did a bit more 30F grinding and got to Reimu 501 (and that's still not enough for you-know-who). I'm settled with a lead of Yukari, Keine, Suwa, and Nitori. I picked Keine over Iku because she can buff both of my nukers simultaneously which works out to more total damage, it seems. Things should go a little faster now that I'm not
as
distracted by ToGF :V
I don't remember Rinno too clearly, but I'm pretty sure I didn't like his wind form because I didn't have proper para-resist gear. However, his MYS SPI (hurr) form is pretty easy :3c
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OK! I suck at finding characters in this game...
So I'm gonna do what Parax did in his second playthrough (minus posting it on youtube and make funny and witty dialouge to go with it. maybe) and I will let YOU decide what 12 character I should play through the game with!
Because I'm bored :P
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Even a recording of the playthrough could be interesting enough if you get a... unique party :V
I give you Reimu. However, this Reimu is so incredibly bored with the exploration of the space that she must use each of her attacking spells once in any given battle before she may use either of her two supporting spells in that specific batt--
On a more serious note, are you going to be doing this on a ng+ with all characters, equips, or some combination of that stuff, carried over? Although, regardless, I'm giving you...
Sakuya
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Use Youmu.
and also Yuyuko if I can suggest multiple.
What would a good level for Maribel
be? Reimu is currently level 113 and I got destroyed (yes I used Chen-->Escape to get to the relay point)
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Use only people who have the letter "Y" in their names. BV
I seem to recall beasting Maribel
somewhere in the lower 100's. (I'm leaving that spelling mistake in there because it made me chuckle.)
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The final boss isn't realistic to beat before 120 unless you want heavy luck-based-ness, and 130 is a better idea of seriously trying her, DEPENDING on your party and how much ease you want in the fight.
It does depend a lot on your party/strategy, since at this point in and on this fight you have a high degree of customizability in that category.
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Use only people who have the letter "Y" in their names. BV
The list if you were curious:
Sakuya, Youmu, Yuyuko, Yuugi, Kaguya, Yukari, Yuuka, Aya and Mystia
Including last names we add Chen(?), Ran, Rumia(?), Eirin, Sanae, Suwako, Kanako, Orin, and Shikieiki
I like how everything on 20F dies before it moves except The Norns, which use 1 attack which everyone survives because affinities.
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I think this is the first time since early early game where adding a point used up the last of my SP (http://i.imgur.com/bsZa4.png). Was kinda cool :V.
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I was thinking more along the lines of "Who should I add to my party, ALL SLOTS"
And I don't think going with everyone with "Y" in their names gives me a lot of restriction :V
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I was thinking more along the lines of "Who should I add to my party, ALL SLOTS"
And I don't think going with everyone with "Y" in their names gives me a lot of restriction :V
No Reimu, Marisa, Minoriko, Rinnosuke, Iku, Tenshi, Meiling, Remilia... the list goes on.
Although if people only draw from the 'y' pool, I vote for "Empty" for 123th party slot. ::)
Reimu has already reached level 124.
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So... any suggestions for a full party? Or am I gonna have to make a party with Y people...
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@Chirpy: I had Reimu at 630 when I beat Winner, and I probably went a bit further than needed, plus I was using a few sub-par characters (Mokou, Cirno, etc.) just because I like them. So I'd say ~600 would be good to beat him and still get a challenge from it. If it's not enough you can always add more. Also skillpoints make a big difference, so if you're going to gain 100 levels without any skillpoints you may want to level up a bit further to make up for it.
@Yukiko: You could go with a team of only final boss characters. I tried it earlier but stopped because it was boring, but if you want a weird party you could try that. Reimu and Maribel could be included to make things easier.
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>goes to random.org
>generates 1, 3, 6, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 25, 32, 33, 39
Reimu, Remilia, Chen, Cirno, Minoriko, Youmu, Yuugi, Aya, Mokou, Rinnosuke, Renko, Keine.
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>goes to random.org
>generates 1, 3, 6, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 25, 32, 33, 39
Reimu, Remilia, Chen, Cirno, Minoriko, Youmu, Yuugi, Aya, Mokou, Rinnosuke, Renko, Keine.
Well at least I have a healer. I'll go with that!
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Final boss, final phase.
How.
Flowing Hellfire!
CLD target-all!
self-buff!
Flowing Hellfire before I can move!
Hyperdimension Flying Object before I can move!
Game Over!
What am i supposed to do, level some more?
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What am i supposed to do
Get lucky, pretty much. Hope she doesn't self-buff or use her Dullahan impersonation. Or you can level up more, but her last phase is fairly stupid, yes.
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Get lucky, pretty much. Hope she doesn't self-buff
Stupid.
Because she used Overflowing Unnatural Power THREE TIMES IN A ROW (right after killing the last minion no less), giving herself +100% in every stat. I lost before I even had a chance to start.
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I think it's always the first thing she does after you kill the last one, but using more than that was pretty bad luck. I remember having a kind of strategy actually: keep her speed at -50%, lower the last minion's health as low as you can, and then wait for her to move, ideally with a spell that has high delay. Then put her speed back to -50%, kill the minion, and unleash as much hell as you can before she buffs herself, which removes the speed debuff completely. After that things get ugly, but her health in the last phase is fairly low so hopefully she only gets 4 or 5 moves before she dies.
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I'm just going to level up a bunch more, hopefully pick up some more items and then be able to actually survive her after buffs.
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Play with Eirin
12 Eirins
Anyway on a serious note I put together a lovely charagraph using the Last Word Cut-in Stand things from the Genius of Sappheiros characters <3 Unfortunately there isn't one for every character, but a good chunk of them, at the least.
I love how some of them turned out (Cirno, Reisen, a couple others) although others aren't too great (Remi and Yuugi have great poses, but Remi is a bit short for dialogue boxes and Yuugi has the dilemma of if she faces one way she looks good for battle but hideous on status/level-up pages and vice versa for the other way)
I'm still trying to mess with Reimu, because she's a tad too far over in the main selection screen for my tastes, but to fix it I'd have to chop up the picture and I'd truly rather not. I hope I did a fairly good job, and I'll see if I can't change something if it's not well executed.
Probably going to do up a team out of their images <3
Charagraph of Genius of Sappheiros Characters (http://www.mediafire.com/?xb2i1zeq6cu8cfi)
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Well at least I have a healer. I'll go with that!
Err, uhh, unless you count minoriko, there is no magic dps in that group. Or was mokou? I cant remember if she was phys or not.
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Mokou's magic, yeah, though nothing amazing. You probably want to spam her big multi-target to do good damage, and that costs over 100sp.
It's surprising really. That's practically all of the physical attackers in one group.
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Mokou's magic, yeah, though nothing amazing. You probably want to spam her big multi-target to do good damage, and that costs over 100sp.
It's surprising really. That's practically all of the physical attackers in one group.
Hmm... maybe I will roll again.
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Maribel Hearn defeated.
Suika was the MVP pf the battle, followed by Remilia, and then Youmu.
Tenshi managed to remove 3 buffs, Marisa got sniped, etc. etc.
So...I see a lot of boss markers have suddenly appeared.
Also, Maribel's boss marker didn't go away, does this mean I can fight her again whenever?
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Maribel Hearn defeated.
Suika was the MVP pf the battle, followed by Remilia, and then Youmu.
Tenshi managed to remove 3 buffs, Marisa got sniped, etc. etc.
So...I see a lot of boss markers have suddenly appeared.
Also, Maribel's boss marker didn't go away, does this mean I can fight her again whenever?
You can fight Maribel whenever you want, but if you get 5 stars and activate the switches on the 20th floor afterwards you can fight Maribel Han ver.2!
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Wow, remi 2nd mvp!? Shes nearly always the mvp for me no matter what my overall party serup is, but everyone else is convinced shes just "meh".
I mean she cranks out those spears faster than anything other than aya or chen spam, but its damage (after her self buff... And i dont mean 1 attack after but like 4-5) is about half as much as the really heavy hits like megawatt gun. Plus she tanks well, and after a djinstorm she can dish out full damage within a single turn for a good 5-6 turns before anybody else can even do one attack.
I honestly have no idea how she can be anything less than great for people =p.
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Wow, remi 2nd mvp!? Shes nearly always the mvp for me no matter what my overall party serup is, but everyone else is convinced shes just "meh".
I mean she cranks out those spears faster than anything other than aya or chen spam, but its damage (after her self buff... And i dont mean 1 attack after but like 4-5) is about half as much as the really heavy hits like megawatt gun. Plus she tanks well, and after a djinstorm she can dish out full damage within a single turn for a good 5-6 turns before anybody else can even do one attack.
I honestly have no idea how she can be anything less than great for people =p.
I totally agree. Remilia has always and probably always will be my character with the highest BP. Honestly, after a Curse, nothing can really hurt her badly and each spear is like half the damage dealt by nuke hits like Silent Selene.
Also, just beat Yuyuko. Is it really lucky for her to only use Saigyiouji Flawless Nirvana once during the battle (only the opener)?
And is it just me, or is Yuyuko's damage output on anything other than Saigyiouji Flawless Nirvana rather low (as a party member)?
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And is it just me, or is Yuyuko's damage output on anything other than Saigyiouji Flawless Nirvana rather low (as a party member)?
It is, but if you build her MAG it hits really hard.
Been a long time since I played but I specifically remember her being my main damage source for the 20F boss fight.
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I made a mag yuyu in my last playthru and was excited to see her damage... Unfortunately it wasnt auite as i hoped. Yes its powerful, but despite its amazing formula, megawatt still outdoes it. While you may think thats a given, consider that it is spirit elemental instead of non; which SERIOUSLY hinders her end game boss dpsing viability. As for her other spells, yeah theyll always deal crap damage. Though if you build her for speed, and you use kaggy and yukari, and you dont underlevel, you can really stall the bosses with her atb reduction.
That said she didnt suck. She was flan-tier for mist trash, and even if flawless's damage was situational, it was almost always fairly good at worst, combined with her AMAZING base resistances, high mnd, and respectable hp... She was kinda like kanako only situationally strong and weak during different bosses than kanako. So like she did the same thing as kanako during different times (though she lacks elemental versitility, the plain superior power of flawless makes up for that).
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so I just played a bunch more.
Wow, remi 2nd mvp!? Shes nearly always the mvp for me no matter what my overall party serup is, but everyone else is convinced shes just "meh".
She's not meh, it's just Suika was hitting for 150-200k per hit as opposed to Remilia's 50-70k, and Remilia kind of was forced to switch people as opposed to attack and then Djinn Storm happened.
Mystia is awesome so far. Spammable 50k is awesome, status removal is awesome, survivability is not crap, target all is great damage, great PAR and PSN effect, awesome SP pool...it goes on.
I've already beaten the boss rush, recorded, will likely upload (Yukari didn't get to Djinn Storm).
I've also beaten 14/18 V2 bosses-just Rinnosuke, Yukari, Flandre and Nitori haven't been beaten.
Is it really lucky for her to only use Saigyiouji Flawless Nirvana once during the battle (only the opener)?
I saw it 3 times. Ah well, I stacked SPI resist when I did it so it barely scratched me as it was. (2-3k max)
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Oh no i didnt say YOU said she was meh. 2nd mbp is still plenty good. Like you said too, shes also a good switch bot if for some reason the tank cant. I prefer letting the tank do it though if possible since their attacks tend to be less important.
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I would think that Remilia's a good enough tank that you don't need another one out, unless you mean you have Remilia built for damage instead of durability.
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I would think that Remilia's a good enough tank that you don't need another one out, unless you mean you have Remilia built for damage instead of durability.
Problem is China is pretty much the unopposed best tank. She can tank anything tankable in the game and tank it well. The only exception would be eiki's final judgement, which nobody can tank except komachi. But I don't think you're really SUPPOSED to tank that so much as just kill her before she kills you...kinda like yuugi at half health. But slot 2 still needs a fairly tanky character because they still take 80% of the damage slot one takes from physical row attacks, and they're still very likely to eat strong single target attacks like steel slasher, triple slash, etc on a regular basis against enemies who have such moves. Half-tanky characters like mnd-reimu, kanako, eirin, etc are still very susceptible of getting 1-shot by such moves, not to mention they cannot eat more than one strong row attack without a dedicated healer all the time. China doesn't need a dedicated healer ALL the time, she's quite capable of surviving on her own for awhile, but many people on a strong physical boss can't make the same claim, not even in slot 2.
Remi IMO is however since curse also buffs her defenses (And they're both good at default, as is her hp). Tenshi is too but tenshi is so useless at anything other than tanking it's really a wasted slot if she's not in the front. Basically, you can make do with other people sure, but it's just so much more safe to have a party with only 2 squishies instead of 3. A Defense build youmu/yuugi can do the job but they're both way too squishy mnd-wise to be there unless the boss is pure physical only like baal avatar (that dark spell doesn't count, it's super feeble). IMO the number of characters who can take multiple frequent physical AND magical hits like a champ AND provide something not-situationally useful other than switching is really low, and I don't think anybody does it as well as remi.
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Slot 2 Wriggle :smug:
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The Hibachi's are annoying.
My strategy basically falls apart if I lose Marisa until she deals 800k-ish to Hibachi #1. I could have won last time except I mis-timed a switch and lost Ran+Kanako, removing the last of my magic damage dealers. I can take out either one, but never both since after taking out one results in Dual Funeral Washing Machine TPK.
Is there any way to beat these guys without relying on ungodly amounts of luck in who gets targeted? and which one is the better choice to take out first?
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As long as you're preparing for it in advance (Pumping Meiling's hp skp more then you otherwise would, start to give her some levelup bonuses in HP) and then drop your boost HP bonus gear on her, you can actually get Meiling up high enough to take hits from Last Judgment without overgrinding, without too much trouble :V
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Is there any way to beat these guys without relying on ungodly amounts of luck in who gets targeted? and which one is the better choice to take out first?
ok, I beat them.
My opening party was Remilia Rinnosuke Ran Kaguya, with Rinnosuke going 3rd after the Hibachis. On the 20% of attempts where everyone actually got to move, I had Remilia switch herself for Flandre and Ran for Marisa before using World Shaking Miilitary Rule. I then switched out Flandre for Meiling using Kaguya and usually Marisa swapped for Reimu to heal, but I didn't need to this fight, so I used Master Spark. From this point the fight went pretty much as planned, I took out the physical one, fired off another Master Spark...for only 350k as opposed to 650k. I had Kaguya use Hourai barrage for 250k but it didn't die. At this point I was in a panicked frenzy trying to have either Kanako (sniped), Kaguya (low health) or Marisa (no SP to start) get a turn in edgewise to kill it (I didn't know the second one got faster after the death of one until this fight), and I did using Yukari. Magic Missile ended the fight.
This was so luck based it lost most of the fun. Then again I was 5 levels under recommended.
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I thought the point of World Shaking Military Rule was to use it at the end of the fight? Otherwise it just wears off doesn't it?
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I though the point of World Shaking Military Rule was to use it at the end of the fight?
I thought you were supposed to open with it? Except for multi-phase bosses, then you use it before SP drain/start of final phase.
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I always thought that you opened with World Shaking Military Rule to immediately get yourself set up against tough bosses or save it for multi-phase bosses and use it at the phase that gives you issues.
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I would imagine it's supposed to be saved for the boss's crazy phase just before they die, otherwise it's just going to wear off and you've got Rinnosuke stuck in the front with no TP left. (I'm guessing the idea is to just let him die after that?) It's nothing that Reimu and Yukari can't give you defense-wise, and since you presumably start with nukes in the back while your support characters get everything set up I feel like the offense boost is kind of arbitrary at the start of the battle like that. Of course, I guess you could start with nukes in the field if you're insta-buffing with him, but it still feels like you're just wasting it.
Personally I think of him as a pretty wimpy character, all things considered.
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On the whole I believe Military Rule in boss battles is usually paired with Spirited Away and two nuke characters.
If the sequence is done right two fully buffed nukes get two turns really very quickly, but Parallaxal and others know how it go better than me.
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He's a somewhat tanky character with somewhat okay damage.
If you want a defensive attacker at the point in the game you get Rinno, pick Remi or Alice or Ran or someone instead. (Alice being more back-row choice, but this is a niche role well-needed in Plus bosses) They do it better then him. Remi has no multitargets for randoms, though. Ran is -totally awesome- for that with spamming her composite (Granted that she has high offense buffs on, it's very high tier damage on a very durable character, as opposed to "decent" damage off the other two) but people seem to like using her for buffing, so.
His buff is only notably useful for grinding 20F/30F earlier/faster/easier (And you don't really need it for those, it makes you have to go back after each battle as well... but it does help for awhile), since if you use it in a boss, then you cannot switch him out ever again unless he dies.
If you'd really like to use him he's okay. But he's not exciting, trust me. I was rather underwhelmed when I used him. He was neither as durable as I hoped nor was his damage output all that great.
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As long as you're preparing for it in advance (Pumping Meiling's hp skp more then you otherwise would, start to give her some levelup bonuses in HP) and then drop your boost HP bonus gear on her, you can actually get Meiling up high enough to take hits from Last Judgment without overgrinding, without too much trouble :V
That did t quite work in my last playthru. I had hp for china costing 3x more than anything else on my other characters (via spending sp on absolutely nothing but her hp for the last 2-3 floors or something) and even with the best hp gear i could get (i think it was just those 160% bodybulding ethos things) , she didnt have enough to survive most of the time (due to 22% damage deviation... Like she could take the bottom 4% or something).
Maybe you put some levelup bonuses into her hp too? Im soing that in my current playthru (about 1/5 hp, 4/5 def). Im hoping thatll make a noticeable diff.
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Arthur's Gem or Gem of Arthorous or whatever gives more HP bonus plus big affinity boosts to help keep her health up there. And yes, I did say some levelups to HP (I basically started putting them all in HP after I started 21F; but she was pure DEF before, so.)
And yeah, it did involve a lot of HP gorging via SKP, but it's not as if the result isn't useful for the entire game. Meiling staying alive is soooo important for a boss. I didn't regret it, basically.
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so I'm grinding on the 25th floor (blitzed through 21-24 just seeing how high I could get and if there was a more efficient floor than 20) and I got the following drop: [attach=1]
Kaguya now hits the SPI-weak things for 7 digit damage =D
At what level should I think about fighting the Plus Disc bosses/Maribel ver 2?
EDIT: Celestial Bright Demon down. That was annoying, I ended up having to use mostly chip damage for the last 2/3 of the fight because Kaguya got Magic Drained and Marisa got KOed early. Thankfully Komachi's "nuke" is SPI element, thankfully I buffed Youmu's attack to absurd levels and thankfully I had the good sense to keep Kaguya off the field until she had enough SP for 2 Hourai Barrages.
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I'm trying to use Cheat engine to mitigate grind time by boosting exp/SP/Item droprates, but I am absolutely :] at using Cheat Engine, even after going through the tutorial and downloading the Cheat Table. I have the 3.01 ver with the Special Disk and I have the respective table for it.
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Droprates can't be changed. Just edit the item into your inventory.
Exp and Skp per battle can be found right after a battle. Don't press anything and search for the values while they're still there. Accept your exp/skp and the address that drops to 0 is the one you want to keep to hack the exp/skp rate.
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Throwing my own hat in the ring with regards to portrait packs.
UPDATED LINK (Now with 99% less shit Marisa and Aya images!) http://www.filefactory.com/file/17fdugvz8mxp/n/CharaGraph_Sengoku_Gensokyo_zip (http://www.filefactory.com/file/17fdugvz8mxp/n/CharaGraph_Sengoku_Gensokyo_zip)
A portrait pack for those who want the pretty Sengoku Gensokyo art in Labyrinth of Touhou.
The pack's a bit rough around the edges IMO (I despise Marisa's and Aya's _Stand images but I'm a complete noob with image editors and wouldn't know how to go about fixing them to make them look less...screwy).
Marisa in general is kind of annoying, her Stand images in Sengoku are wide as fuck and don't translate well in the resizing and she also has the only face picture to not have a transparent background, MARISA Y U NO CONSISTENT.
Also, a fair few characters don't have pictures by virtue of not being in the game, fill in the blanks with other packs or something.
Also, Sanae, Minoriko, Kanako, Nitori and Suwako lack X_Stand images because I couldn't find them and I'm not even sure if they exist.
Man the link went dead already :(
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Man the link went dead already :(
OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE.
GIVE ME A MOMENT.
I will fix this shit.
EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/?ssx7tma7o7m7bnb
AND SO I DID.
Humph. Bloody dead download links.
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Awesome, thanks.
I might just have to do a third playthrough of this now. Maybe I should try and challenge myself by not using Meiling or something.
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Uhhh...
What kind of boss requires you to get lucky over 11 million HP that it doesn't buff its magic and then spam target alls?
Oh right, Agastobrauma on 25F.
What am I supposed to do, level grind further???
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Am I the only one who thought he was the easiest of the plus disk bosses? I remember him being weak to deduffs or paralysis or something. He barely got any moves in.
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Am I the only one who thought he was the easiest of the plus disk bosses? I remember him being weak to deduffs or paralysis or something. He barely got any moves in.
Flame Tyrant was PAR-locked.
This guy is vulnerable to debuffs, but when he does go he destroys my party while buffed with not a thing I can do about it. I've tried keeping his speed debuffed, I've tried nuking him, but "Strengthen Jutsu" means "you lose 4+ characters depending on what I do"
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I don't know then. I remember keeping his speed at rock bottom and keeping him paralyzed for most of the fight. Maybe I got really lucky. :V
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PAR has a 10% chance to hit him. Of 20 or so chances I saw it land once last time.
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No doubt I was spamming Diamond Blizzard, and maybe Suwako's Ring thing if I still had her then, since that's what I did to anything that wasn't immune to PAR. I don't know what to say otherwise, aside from just level up more.
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I dont recall it being that hard myself (though i know i never relied on a par strategy) I had a mnd evey level patchy for most of my games though so magic based bosses were less threatening for me.
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When I was using Meiling to tank Shikieiki's Last Judgment, I prepped in advance by pumping maybe 80 level's worth of level up bonuses into her HP, on top of all the HP skill points and HP items. In fact, I believe I started putting level bonuses into HP as soon as I decided I was going to challenge the Plus Disk with my team. I don't think you can reasonably take it if you only use skill points and items, at least not without extra level grinding.
As for Agastrobrauma, I had fun just tanking him with Iku in slot 1. Super-high MND, near invulnerability to PAR, and naturally good WND affinity? It's almost like she's tailor-made to tank that boss.
If you can fight Agastrobrauma, you should already be able to unlock Renko. Just use Renko's Debilitate to counter Strengthen Jutsu each time (or, hey, just keep applying it regularly). The great thing about Renko is that she doesn't scale with stats at all, so you don't even need to invest any skill points in her, and she'll still perform her job well enough. She just needs to be fast enough to switch in, cast Debilitate/Galaxy Stop, then switch out again. I just put her level bonuses into SPD and give her some random SPD-boosting items.
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I was trying that, except I can't figure out how to damage the 3rd summon from Mairbel V2.
Throwing Atlas, 0 damage, Master Spark, 0 damage...the only way I could hurt it was Kaguya-and she got sniped.
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The 3rd Summon has extremely high DEF/MND at first, but you need to wait for it to start using Rankain, which is a charging attack that takes several turns. After it uses Rankain the first time, its DEF and MND will drop to pathetic levels, giving you time to kill it ASAP before it finishes charging Rankain.
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The 3rd Summon has extremely high DEF/MND at first, but you need to wait for it to start using Rankain
Ah. Last time it used some party-all move that did 30k to everyone after heaven's Lightning x3.
This time it went straight for Rankain, I killed it before it could move again, and won with the only casualty being Remilia, to a Scourge.
EDIT:
FIVE
MINUTES
spent waiting for Meiling to get a turn against 2 Rainbow Insects. Posion immunity+0 damage from everything=very annoying when you can't die and have to wait for the 15% chance for paralysis to hit (per move) can't happen for 14 moves. This is a 9.7% chance that the string of moves will occur, assuming equal chance of every attack. The problem is that each "try" takes forever. I'm convinced Rainbow Insect's sole purpose is to be annoying.
double edit:
Shikieiki down...and I got her drop. I've gotten every drop from a plus disc boss first try so far, except for Celestial Bright Demon.
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Eh? I find renko's defensive stats scale reasonably enough via skillpoints. Yeah maybe she's not a proper tank, but she can take a hit or two in slot two if you don't neglect her defense completely. Even a steel slasher. But yeah, don't need offensive skillpoints at all. Or offensive items. Really though, I do the same thing with kaggy. Yeah her mag growth is good, yeah defense ignoring attacks are good...But there are like a dozen characters with really good attack formulas on high attack stats, and there's only a few fights where defense IGNORE is truly more important than say, just a really big hit like Nitori, yuugi, youmu, patchy, etc. So basically, I just find she's still perfectly great if you focus on her being a buddha's stone bowl bot, and pour the vast majority of her skillpoints into mnd/spd. I mean I know she's good as a nuke too, but other than yukari, there really isn't anybody else who can replace the bowl (and even then yukari's eats up her sp much faster, plus the delay on it is brutal).
But anyway, it is indeed pretty cool to have a few characters with no need for any offensive stats (or at least little), it really makes you be able to have really powerful items that truly compliment each character perfectly much better. Not to mention allows you to make your entire party mostly status immune (though the actual stat debuff one tends to be a tough one to reach naturally, qq).
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27F boss.
Rankain.
I don't even know how to beat this thing, Rankain would be a TPK even 100 levels up. So what do I do, other than use Master Spark and defense ignoring moves?
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Debilitate.
That and SPI affinities.
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I ended up just Master Sparking it to death after losing Shikieiki+Kaguya to Quantnum Dissonance Form.
and Komachi could apparently survive one anyway.
Somehow.
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Ok, so after being a lazy twat I decided to go with Random.org and see what I got
2, 4, 7, 9, 10, 11, 20, 22, 24, 25, 26, 36
(Marisa) (Sakuya) (Meiling) (Minoriko) (Youmu) (Alice) (Nitori) (Reisen) (Tenshi) (Mokou) (Flandre) (Kanako)
...I ain't seeing any dedicated buffers on this list.
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Reisen is going to be your MVP since she can selfbuff. Otherwise Sakuya's SPD buffs are the closest you'll have to boosting your damage. And you have zero defensive options other than base tankers. Levelling is your only way to play.
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Reisen is going to be your MVP since she can selfbuff. Otherwise Sakuya's SPD buffs are the closest you'll have to boosting your damage. And you have zero defensive options other than base tankers. Levelling is your only way to play.
...So reroll :D?
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you don't actually need damage buffers per say, they are really just a time saver more than anything. I think it'd be harder without a reimu/yukari/ran for group defense buffs but you have Mino at least.. I don't particularly want to use a random group myself, but if I did, I'd be pretty open to that one.
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you don't actually need damage buffers per say, they are really just a time saver more than anything. I think it'd be harder without a reimu/yukari/ran for group defense buffs but you have Mino at least.. I don't particularly want to use a random group myself, but if I did, I'd be pretty open to that one.
...Well I would like a group defense buff, I WILL USE MY LOLI POWAHS TO SWAP TENSHI FOR RAN OUT OF PURE BOREDUM
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That group seems decent enough.
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So I just beat the V2 boss rush.
By overkilling Rinnosuke's SPI form with a 360 SP Master Spark.
I don't think I was supposed to do that.
EDIT: Ok...at what point does grinding on 30F become more effective than on 29F?
and at what level should I think about fighting the V2 Bloodstained Seal bosses/Serpent of Chaos?
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IHNN:It's hard to tell, but I'd recommend using Yukari/ (iku or keine or rinnosuke for quick offensive buff) / Nitori / Kaguya and giving Nitori a million turns to buffed murderbeam with whenever you start doing 30F. Iku is arguably best since Rinnosuke means going back to Gensokyo after every fight, but Rinno also buffing defensive stats (and Kaggy's MAG) makes him safer at first, and it takes a lot of speed gouging on Iku to make her get a turn quickly.
Bloodstained Seal bosses vary, although Bloody Papa's debuff weakness makes him doable earlier I think (Especially if you use Renko), and the ridiculous long named butterfly-ish one is probably the next or most easy. SoC is lv400~450. Dual Hibachi v2 is... well, "after SoC".
If you can take the butterfly's startoff needle parade, you should be able to do that one, pretty much. Since the subsequent parades you'll have buffs up for.
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Beast of Centaurea V2 is on a whole different level from the other 3 Bloodstained Seal bosses on 21F. If you can beat one of three, you can probably beat them all (or close to it, anyway). But Beast of Centaurea V2 requires another 50 levels or something. I suppose you can cheese its first form with PAR hax, but that takes way too long and I lack the patience for it. For the most part, you just need lots of defensive buffs and enough sustain to survive an extended barrage of attacks. Unlike the other Bloodstained Seal bosses, it doesn't have any insta-wipe desperation attacks, so if you can withstand its offense, you can grind it down.
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Shouldn't you be on 27F if you're not on 30F?
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Shouldn't you be on 27F if you're not on 30F?
oh dear, yeah, I just noticed IHNN said he was grinding on 29f.
Because of liliths having a bajillion SKP, yeah, 27F is definitely the best; plus all battles can be finished very fast, unlike 28 or 29f. The exp increase on 28 and 29 is very small as well, and the extra time/going back to gensokyo puts them at a loss in exp as well as skp.
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I just recently did Beast of Centaurea V2 at about Reimu level 402. The recommended level is 440+ though. Was going to wait till the recommended but I was soooooo tired of grinding levels I said screw it and fought it and then Bloody Papa.
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Yaaaaaaay!!! :toot: :toot: :toot: :toot: :toot: :toot: :toot: :toot: :toot:
Just beat the main game's final boss! I think that battle went rather well, as she was finally nice in not spamming magic drain early on and not using her self buff more than twice and never using Djinn Storm. I probably needed the good luck, since I was apparently under the recommended level for the boss (I was at Reimu 124).
So now that the main game is finished, what part of the post game should I start with? Or should I grind some more on 20F?
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Grinding more on 20f doesn't hurt. After all, 170 is like a minimum level you'd want to hit before doing actual plus-disk floors, with 200 being more of a goal if you don't want to return to grinding awhile later. (It's nice to break up grinding with some floor exploration, though. Overall though, you'd want to be around 210 finishing 21f, 220 finishing 22f, and this trend continues all the way to 30f.)
There's also the v2 bosses that appear all over that you can go after. Two more bloody seals (One on 9f) have become available, along with the rest of 20F to be explored, and the two bloody seals you found before fighting the final boss should be easy now.
Around level 170~180 you should have defeated everything before the plus disk floors (Such as Boss Rush, which I hadn't mentioned previously) and hopefully have gotten all the 20F exclusive drops (Since getting all 100 initial items gets you a star)
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Ok, I've cleared all the V2 bosses up to and including Eientei, except Alice. Is it me, or did the bosses that consist of multiple targets get even more tougher than the other V2s? Also, is Reimu Lv around 153 enough to take on the 3rd blood stained seal boss?
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Also, is Reimu Lv around 153 enough to take on the 3rd blood stained seal boss?
Which is "third"? There's Hibachi, Bloody Papa... :o I think that should be fine, though.
Alice IMO is easier because you have Kaguya to wipe all three dolls at once. She's also great for the 5th bloodstained seal. (5th I'd recommend more like 170+)
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I found Alice mk2 is indeed harder than most of the mk2s, but IIRC Yukari was the hardest for me, but...yeah, most other people seem to have this strange magical ability to make Yukari not troll so hard. For me she just LOVES deleting the action bars of my characters about to pull off important moves (like reimu's heal) just as they're full, or destroying their mana (and I don't mean djinn storm). Maybe Flan was also hard, been awhile I forget.
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Which is "third"? There's Hibachi, Bloody Papa... :o I think that should be fine, though.
Alice IMO is easier because you have Kaguya to wipe all three dolls at once. She's also great for the 5th bloodstained seal. (5th I'd recommend more like 170+)
My bad, I thought there was a particular one that was supposed to be fought third or something. Anyway, I beat Hibachi and Bloody Papa. Also cleared the Boss Rush, after a super trolling final boss fight. In fact, my first attempt went even worse at that battle, with the final boss using her self buff at least 3 times in quick succession in addition to 5 djinn storms throughout the battle. Anyway, I'm now wondering whether I should continue fighting V2s, or is there even anything else to do at this point since I'm clearly no match for the Hibachis together?
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nothing much else to do but 20F grind
you do need to get all 4 20f exclusive drops! (Scourge, Divine Spirit Barrier, Flower Kiykhaisdhogfudgs Blade, and Armads)
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nothing much else to do but 20F grind
you do need to get all 4 20f exclusive drops! (Scourge, Divine Spirit Barrier, Flower Kiykhaisdhogfudgs Blade, and Armads)
Fortunately, I'm only missing Scourge at this point, so it shouldn't be too much longer.
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Or you can intentionally avoid getting the ribbon on 13f, get one with the 5% bonus on 20 too, then get a 2nd via chest on 13f >=P. too late for you to do that though.
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Can someone please explain why Rinnosuke V3 keeps dying without going into final form?
I've beaten 2 of them and...the fights went as follows:
Starting form-->SPI form-->CLD form (Last Judgement)-->dead
Starting form-->NTR form-->WND form (a lot of attacks)-->dead (+1 drop)
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Can someone please explain why Rinnosuke V3 keeps dying without going into final form?
Because you depleted his health...?
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Because you depleted his health...?
But I'm clearly not supposed to do that.
I kind of want to see what buffs his final form got, but if he's going to die every time on his second elemental form...
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The big thing to note is that while each form does have a 'set' amount of health that you're supposed to deplete, Rinnosuke actually does have a total hp pool which you'll realize is spread across all forms. What this means is that it's possible to kill the v2 and v3 Rinnosuke bosses in far less form changes because the weakness of each form expand your related damage to that so much plus it shares a total hp pool across its form despite being scripted to change when you deplete the 'set' hp amount when the turn comes up for him and you'll note that the boss's hp doesn't scale very well based on the amount of damage you could possibly do at that point for v2 and v3, so by the time you get to the last boss of Plus Disk you can destroy that v3 boss in one shot and it won't change forms at all.
Which is why you won't see his final form so easily at all, because the game maker didn't scale his hp up very well.
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I don't think that's really what happens with v3. When I've fought v3, what's happened is that he goes into his first elemental form as normal and switches when I deplete enough HP, also as normal. But after that, he uses Form Destruction again on his next turn, even if I don't attack him at all. So it looks to me like his form HP isn't changing correctly. So if you want to see the v3 final form, I'd think it's as simple as just not attacking while he uses Form Destruction over and over.
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I would revive the thread, but there are no revive effects in this game.
So what's a good level for ***WINNER***? I have Reimu at 560-570ish and he's destroying me, still.
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That level looks doable. How are your SKP levels?
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That level looks doable. How are your SKP levels?
Highest skill level on everyone is 200.
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Hello,new here =3, i am currently at 16f grinding for yukari,however i was reading other threads and i see there is no love for okuu,is she so bad even at NG+?, also what do your think of my party? (once i get them all of course,note these are picked due to them being my favorite chars) meiling,mokou,tenshi,okuu,yukari,ran,flandre,manosuke,sanae,iku,marisa and komachi
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Utsuho is low tier because her spells are expensive, commonly resisted element, not so great durability and slow (I think).
:Generally accepted good party characters:
Meiling
Iku
Ran
Yukari
Tenshi
Rinnosuke
Flandre
Sanae
Komachi
Marisa
Mokou
Utsuho
:Generally accepted not so good party characters:
The top 4 are solid additions to any team. Tenshi down to Marisa are pretty situational characters. Mokou and Utsuho suffer from someone else being able to do the same things as them with far more efficiency.
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i see.....even if those are weak i must find some use to them,even full MAG utsuho is bad?
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Okuu is usable, just like anyone else in the game. It's just that even with a full MAG build, her damage output is only around average, but suffers from having poor elemental coverage, a low level up rate, crippling SP costs in the early game, and fairly low utility. She has one of the few DEF/MND ignoring spells in the game, but it has fairly low multipliers compared to the likes of Shikieiki or Kaguya. Okuu does have the niche of being able to self-buff while attacking, similar to Aya. It's just that if she does, her defense drops even lower, plus her self-buff spell is also her weakest (unlike Aya's). Curiously, she's probably at her best in teams that lack ways to buff yourself offensively (so no Iku, Sanae, Ran, or Kaguya). I can't really see why you'd want to cast Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction if you can get an even bigger MAG boost from Iku with no penalty to your DEF/MND.
She's not bad enough to actually discourage you from ever using her (I've used her for a playthrough before; that's why I can say what I'm saying), it's just that there are better choices for the role. But she can still fill the role if you want.
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Currently at 16F, best is meiling lv69, Bosses left to defeat: Kaguya foe,Flandre,Yukari, all three keep wiping the floor with me, what i should do? :<
EDIT
Yukari down, was kinda easy now that i buffed suwako, suwako doing 70k per nuke took her down pretty fast
EDIT 2
Reached mannosuke at lv71 meiling, i feel i am severely underleveled......if so, where to grind?
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18F is fine for grinding, so long as you can handle the enemies there. I actually think 18F is a little easier than 17F, as far as enemy mobs are concerned. The only things I really have issues with are those squid-like things with high speed and like to cast Dark Hole/Destroy Magic.
If you haven't taken the time to explore all of 18F, do so. It's pretty huge with lots of nice items. I usually end up at a good enough level to take on the boss simply by exploring everything first. Mannosuke is beatable in the 80's, but most wait until the 90's to make it more comfortable.
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Utsuho is low tier because her spells are expensive, commonly resisted element, not so great durability and slow (I think).
:Generally accepted good party characters:
Meiling
Iku
Ran
Yukari
Tenshi
Rinnosuke
Flandre
Sanae
Komachi
Marisa
Mokou
Utsuho
:Generally accepted not so good party characters:
The top 4 are solid additions to any team. Tenshi down to Marisa are pretty situational characters. Mokou and Utsuho suffer from someone else being able to do the same things as them with far more efficiency.
There's quite a few characters missing... Reimu, Remillia, Wriggle, Cirno, Reisen, Sakuya... pretty sure I missed some
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He was rating that guy's team, not all of the characters.
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been considering to replace mannosuke with orin, how good is she and at what stat she is good at?
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Orin is a fairly nice character, since her nuke is composite, as long as her offense buffs are high it should do good damage on bosses despite being normally non-nukey on randoms. In randoms she has high speed and Blazing Wheel can be used to great effect (Or if you need a non-magical attack, then needles.). Cat's Walk can be used to help manage switching sometimes.
She has nice MND and high speed, and the offensive stat to concentrate on is ATK (But keep in mind that her nuke is composite; it's just that since ATK has the higher growth, it should get the levelup bonuses and a little more attention in general)
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Pretty much what Serela said. Blazing Wheel is probably one step below the really big nukes like KO in 3 Steps or Croaking Frog Eaten by Snake, but it's about on par with Fujiyama Volcano and maybe Royal Flare. However, given its delay and Orin's speed, it's notably more spammable without switching her out, unlike all the other spells I just listed. Its composite nature is both a drawback and an advantage. It's a drawback in that enemies with really high MND or DEF (or even both) are able to resist it (as opposed to only one or the other), but it's also an advantage because the damage formula benefits more from buffs that raise both ATK and MAG, like Thundercloud Stickleback. It's a great trash clearer and a solid nuke for boss fights.
Needle Hill is not only non-elemental, but also has fairly decent DEF-piercing properties. I used it to kill those really high DEF crabs on 27F when level grinding there. Cat's Walk is very situational, but is great for micromanaging turns in boss fights (something I absolutely love to do). Finally, while people tend to forget her last spell, Vengeful Cannibal Spirit is noteworthy for its very strong DEF debuff (-50%) and the fact that it's SPI elemental, ensuring that Orin isn't a one-trick pony element-wise compared to some other characters. And hey, it's damage formula isn't really that bad; it's composite, so it has the same benefits from buffs as Blazing Wheel. It'll probably outdamage Blazing Wheel on bosses that are weak to SPI or resist FIR.
Stat-wise Orin has great SPD and remarkably good MND for a character that you'd normally expect to be a glass cannon. Her natural MND growth is already very good, plus she has a slightly above-average level up rate. However, her HP and DEF are both kind of sub-par, so don't really expect her to be that tanky. It just means she can take a decent spell or two and still survive comfortably.
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finally,flandre and kaguya foe down at meiling 75, its normal for flandre to have 10,000 attack at around those levels?
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Yes.
Flandre's attack will be much much higher than everyone else's, like Komachi with her HP.
Does anyone know if every 30F encounter has the same chance of coming up? Because I mostly seem to get Nitori and Orin.
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It depends on the area.
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do i am the only person that replaces the portraits with non-touhou characters? :<
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There was some talk about doing that a few pages back or in the last thread. You can post what you have and someone might want it.
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do i am the only person that replaces the portraits with non-touhou characters? :<
You're definitely not the only person.
Hell, I made an entire portrait pack that replaces the characters with the cast from Friendship Is Magic, you know, just to fulfil my brony quota.
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You're definitely not the only person.
Hell, I made an entire portrait pack that replaces the characters with the cast from Friendship Is Magic, you know, just to fulfil my brony quota.
I would love a link to this pack, I would love you forever.
Even my avvy is interested.
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I would love a link to this pack, I would love you forever.
Even my avvy is interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVP45Pu5Ptc
The vid's got the download link in the description.
Keep in mind there's very little in the way of rhyme or reason for most of the character swaps. There's only so much I can do to draw parallels between these lot.
In hindsight, I really should've done Shining Armour as either Youmu or Rinnosuke. Prolly Rinnosuke. But I did make this pack before that episode even aired, it's not like I possess the ability to see into the future.
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i keep getting this urge to replace shiki with shinki....
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Started a new playthrough some time ago and I noticed that Eirin has the same DEF growth as Meiling, albeit with notably lower leveling speed, so I tried using her (and Yukari) as my "slot 1 characters" in this playthrough. Every single level up bonus went into her DEF, since her MND and HP are naturally good enough to survive spells and rasetsu fists. I'm actually surprised how well she does she job. I've yet to encounter anything she can't tank comfortably and I just beat Bhaal Avatar at level ~200 where she could take the demon slashing dances just fine. Also having a tank who can debuff ATK and MAG is nice, even though both of those spells generally do 0 damage. But god damn, Hourai Elixir is a terrible heal. The delay, the SP-cost, the amount healed, everything about it is terrible. Even when healing Komachi, Minoriko and Sanae probably produce better results than Eirin. At least she can use it to overheal herself the turn before a boss unleashes a predictable, powerful attack, like the demon slashing dance every 5 turns.
This made me like Eirin a bit more in this game. I actually think that she does the tanking job quite a bit better than the MAG-attacker job. Though she's still not even close to being as good as Meiling at tanking.
Edit: Just lost my 25F savefile due to being incredibly retarded and accidentally overwriting it with a 2F save. So I guess Eirin won't be able to tank the winner then...
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It's summer. I've just finished my first year of medical school.
Time to waste time on computer games.
I'm tempted to do another run-through of LoT, although I think I'm going to replay Etrian Odyssey 3 first.
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I'm tempted to do another run-through of LoT
How many runs of LoT would that put you at in total? I'm interested because I swear you've played this game through with just about every character at some point.
Do a Nuzlocke. I fucking dare you.
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Nuzlocke is way too boring. Could say speedrun rather.
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Nuzlocke is way too boring. Could say speedrun rather.
Or how about solo character runs?
SOLO RENKO DO IT DO IT DO IT
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Nuzlocke is way too boring. Could say speedrun rather.
Funnily enough, there was a race to beat Alice a couple days ago on speedrunslive.
SOLO RENKO DO IT DO IT DO IT
uhhh...how do you get past Rinnosuke? Assuming you can even beat the bosses you can't PAR-lock.
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uhhh...how do you get past Rinnosuke? Assuming you can even beat the bosses you can't PAR-lock.
It was a joke. I don't think it'd be reasonably possible.
I mean, technically speaking you could just grind for several months for her Galaxy Stop to do enough damage to kill.
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I cant figure out how to patch my labyrinth of touhou ver2.04 to ver3.01! :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:
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The thing is, patch 3.01 doesn't work on the expansion - you need the special bundle named Labyrinth of Touhou Special Disc which is the regular game/expansion bundle because v3.01 and above only works with it IIRC.
At least that's what I think you're trying to do is patch 2.04 over the Labyrinth of Touhou expansion if I read that right.
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Yes, version 3 is the Special Disk, and must be obtained on its own; you can't just patch a different version. Get it, then apply 3.01 to it.
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So, I think I've figured out what to do for my next LoT team. And it all started with a random train of thought that went something like this:
"Hmm, Maribel's Overflowing Unnatural Power and its +75% buff is nice, but that delay just makes it so much worse than Reisen's. It's such a waste to switch her out, given that if she could just stay in she can remain in and spam Hyperdimensional Flying Object with 40% delay and that huge speed buff."
"Huh...I just realized that Kaguya's Buddha's Stone Bowl synergizes really well with Maribel's self-buff, giving exactly +100% to all stats while ignoring the delay penalty."
"Wait...I've never actually built support Kaguya before."
So yeah...gonna try to build MND-tank support Kaguya and see what comes of it. I've built teams around Yukari and Iku before, and now I want to see how effective Kaguya can be if I try to use her like a mix of the two. Because I want to see how support Kaguya works on her own, I won't be using either Yukari or Iku in this team. I'm also not using Nitori, just because she just overshadows all other high-delay nukers. Everyone else is sort of comparable, but Nitori is in a tier all of her own.
Meanwhile, I'd also like to try Tenshi as my only tank for the entire game. I've done main game runs with her before, but I haven't taken her all the way through the Plus Disk yet. I want to see just how many bosses she has difficulties with, because I suspect it may be fewer than I originally thought.
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I'm comparing the stats of Wriggle and Tenshi. Tenshi is the far better tank for main game since the slower level rate isn't as big as their difference in DEF/MND growth. Wriggle's HP, resists and level rate just seem like they can outpace Tenshi by the time you hit postgame.
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Because I want to see how support Kaguya works on her own, I won't be using either Yukari or Iku in this team.
While the instant full gauge effect is pretty nice, I think you will have trouble buffing your characters stats to acceptable levels with only Kaguya in the maingame because of Stone Bowl's massive SP-cost.
Meanwhile, I'd also like to try Tenshi as my only tank for the entire game. I've done main game runs with her before, but I haven't taken her all the way through the Plus Disk yet. I want to see just how many bosses she has difficulties with, because I suspect it may be fewer than I originally thought.
Come to think of it, the number of bosses with strong defense ignoring moves really isn't that high. Eiki doesn't count since any tank other than Komachi has trouble surviving her attack. I think the Serpent of Chaos also has defense ignoring attacks, but I'm not sure if there are any other bosses with attacks like that in the Plus Disk. Some trash packs on the plus disk floors have Rasetsu Fist, at least those bodybuilder-kedamas have it, but I don't think trash matters much.
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Has anyone tried to do a 4-character playthrough without significant overleveling? I've thought of something like this:
With the skillpoints I'd normally distribute between 12 characters used on only 4 characters their skillpoint levels will be quite a bit higher than in a normal game, so maybe it's possible to beat most bosses while still being in the upper range of the level recommendation or slightly above that. Since I can't switch heavy nukers with long delay in and out I'd have to play defensive and try to outlast bosses while dealing steady damage. I'd need a tank, healer, physical attacker and magical attacker.
I'm thinking of
-Meiling, because she's a great overall tank, can remove status (+minor healing) and has a great selfheal
-Remilia, because she has very high defensive stats and HP even when built for ATK, great SPD and can keep herself constantly buffed at near +100% without problems (with ailment resistance gear of course)
-Reimu, should be obvious. Great Hakurei Barrier and Exorcising Border are required for this.
-??? (Maybe Kanako? She has good DEF, a good single target nuke, a great multi-target attack and can also target DEF with her spells)
I'm a bit worried about the lack of debuffs, that will make bosses like Yukari probably impossible, but Reisen and Maribel don't have enough DEF to survive attacks like arrow rain or snipe.
I've thought about using Rinnosuke for slot 2, but he seems inferior to Remilia in pretty much all categories. His damage isn't higher, Scarlet Gold Sword may have a better formula then Spear the Gungnir, but it has more delay, he isn't as fast as Remilia and he levels slower. Scarlet Gold Sword also costs 52 SP and he has a terrible SP recovery of 6%, compared to Remi's astronomical 28% baseline. This is important, because I'll probably have to spend quite a few turns focusing to regain SP. World-Shaking Military Rule is also pretty useless here, at least compared to Curse of Vlad Tepes. I expect boss battles to take much longer than in a 'normal' game and being able to keep herself buffed at all times is a big plus for Remilia. She has no multitarget attacks though, Rinnosuke would certainly be better on trash.
Trash in general might be a problem. Only Kanako can really do something meaningful in random battles in that team and her big multitarget nuke costs 148 SP. I can probably do something about that by investing lots of skillpoints into her SP and maybe Reimu's offensive stats, so Fantasy Seal remains a decent multitarget attack even in the later parts of the game.
SP and TP will be a big problem in the early game, but the early game is pretty easy and both can be boosted with enough skillpoints.
I'm almost certain that the plus disk is impossible with a 4 character team, the damage won't be high enough to bring bosses like Bhaal Avatar down before his stats get too high, or Shikieiki before she uses Trial of Ten Kings. But Yukari is the only boss in the main game that seems problematic to me. Yuugi could be pretty hard with only 4 characters, but she's optional, I don't even know if I'll be able to hurt Tenshi, but she's optional too. Flandre might be interesting, with 3 times as much skillpoints it's probably possible to bring even ATK-Remilia's combined defensive stats high enough to take 0 damage from Laevateinn after her selfbuff.
Any thoughts on this? Is this even possible and worth trying?
Would you choose other characters and why?
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I did a Team (9) run a while ago. Wriggle, Cirno, Mystia, Rumia. If you want to do a 4 character run with a more structured team, it should be a little easier than Team (9). Switching during fights is doable, you'd use it for the heal/regen. But it's very risky most of the time. Extra resources in terms of sellable equips and SKP should be poured into defenses. Any time you lose one of your 4, it's time to get out.Basically turtle hard and grind more.
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This is gonna sound dumb, but how do you change the images to ones in one of the image packs?
The one flaw with this game; they somehow did worse art than ZUN.
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This is gonna sound dumb, but how do you change the images to ones in one of the image packs?
The one flaw with this game; they somehow did worse art than ZUN.
There's a folder named 'CharaGraph' in the Labyrinth of Touhou directory, that's where you have to put the images.
I think you also need v3.01 for it.
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While the instant full gauge effect is pretty nice, I think you will have trouble buffing your characters stats to acceptable levels with only Kaguya in the maingame because of Stone Bowl's massive SP-cost.
Back when I did my first Let's Play of this game, the team that people voted for had absolutely no offensive buffs whatsoever. I think I'll manage.
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Yuugi and Tenshi can always be gone back to beat way later after you're overleveled.
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My first (and only) playthrough had Kaguya as my only offensive buffer and I progressed just fine, having built her to be all MND and spam the bowl. She works a lot like some kind of mimic, though buffing the person she copies and , in a sense, herself. But yeah, I think offensive buffs aren't strictly needed. Defense is much more important.
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Yuugi and Tenshi can always be gone back to beat way later after you're overleveled.
I'd like to avoid overleveling as much as possible though. Any character can solo any boss with a high enough level, I'd like to try beating them while still in the recommended level range. Though that will probably be impossible for Yuugi, there's no way to survive her KOi3S at level 25-30 and with 4 characters and only 2 damage dealers I won't be able to take her down fast enough, so I guess I'll have to overlevel for the fight against her.
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Or PAR-lock?
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So guys, any tips for Eientei Team on 12F? I swear, those three are hard..
Only Reisen and Eirin give me a hard time.
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So guys, any tips for Eientei Team on 12F?
PAR-lock
For Reisen at least.
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So, Yuugi or Suwako for PAR-lock?
Reimu can do it too, but I kinda need her for buffing/healing the team, with Sanae.
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Suwako has the best PAR in the game. Yuugi can help with damage but the Eientei fight is strictly for MND tanks. Cirno's PAR is good enough to keep Reisen shut down iirc.
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Well, time for a rematch. I took Aya and Yuugi out of my party and replaced them with Suwako and Cirno.
BTW, I heard it wasn't a good idea to kill Kaguya first?
EDIT: Finally, FINALLY! I beat them! I actually took down Kaguya last instead of Eirin.
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Killing Eirin or Kaguya first will result in the other going beserk mode on you. Reisen can be killed whenever you want.
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Oh. But Eirin's Astronomical Entombing one-shotted my anyways, so..
I'm bringing back Yuugi for this, at least she can survive Kaguya's Fire Rat something spell.
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I think they can be debuffed, but at 3 or more debuffs Kaguya will start buffing them with Stone Bowl, you will want to avoid this. Try debuffing Kaguya and Eirin with Cirno's single target SPD debuff, you should be safe if only 2 debuffs are active, keep Reisen PAR-locked for most of the battle and try to deal equal damage to Kaguya and Eirin. Once one of them uses focus (or one of them dies) go into damage overdrive and kill her. Then pray that you can finish off the other girl before she uses hourai barrage or astronomical entombing. Reisen shouldn't be a problem after that.
Astronomical Entombing and Hourai Barrage are only used the turn after focus, which they only do when they're low on HP (so you can probably finish them off between the focus and the actual spell) or if the other one of the 2 is already dead, they can use it without focusing first then.
It's also possible to tank those 2 spells, they're both SPI-elemental and completely MND-ignoring, so the only way to reduce their damage is SPI-affinity. Zodiac Stones and other items with SPI affinity stacked on a character will significantly reduce the damage she takes from those 2 spells. Boosting SPI-affinity on some characters with skillpoints is also not a bad idea for this battle, raising affinities is never a bad idea. Generally the fight should be doable around Reimu level 50.
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If you want to tank through one of their nukes, you can off one of them and then spam MAG debuffs (Hi Alice), drastically reducing their offensive power.
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Is it normal to beat Alice at Reimu Lv 18? I checked the wiki afterwards and saw the reccomended level was 22+...
I abused Wriggle's Poision effect to kill Healing Light, and just basically stallled after that.
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Is it normal to beat Alice at Reimu Lv 18? I checked the wiki afterwards and saw the reccomended level was 22+...
It says 18-22 for me.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Dungeons/4F (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Dungeons/4F)
The japanese wiki says 18-21.
If you're using the wikia-wiki be informed that the level recommendations on that wiki are all kinds of fucked up and generally WAY too high. (I just checked it. Level 120+ for Flandre? Most characters in the game should be able to solo her at that level.)
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Is there a way to delete my own posts? I accidentally posted this twice.
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So me, Ozzy and Withhelde (from SRL) came up with the idea of a Labyrinth of Touhou NG+ "draft" playthrough.
The 3 of us all get Reimu, then we banned 6 characters (agreed on to be somewhat OP, Nitori, Kaguya, Meiling, Shikieiki, Ran and Renko), then drafted 11 each from the remaining 33 to create full teams of 12 with which to beat the game.
My team ended up consisting of:
Reimu, Minoriko, Mystia, Chen, Yuyuko, Utsuho, Alice, Yukari, Youmu, Suika, Keine and Rinnosuke.
Slot 1 Keine will be fun :V
Unless there's a better Slot 1 in that group of characters?
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Yukari, Keine, and Rinnosuke are your characters who could actually stand to take a hit physically f you build them for DEF. Having to use them as slot one, though... :V
Keine is probably the best, with Yukari/Rinno switching around in Slot 2, or taking one if needed.
On the upside, you have Minoriko to be mnd-tanky support spam and Yukari to help out with DEF/MND buff to help make up for no Meiling, two characters who can self-buff their offense along with Keine for overall offense buffs despite no Iku... and several somewhat durable attackers. I think you'll do fine! :3 It'll probably be a bit rocky before stats scale in, but you can make it!
I'm curious what the other slotted teams were? I can see one other pretty usable team coming out of this. Not sure if both others can be so good, though...
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My team from the aforementioned draft is:
Komachi
Yuugi
Sanae
Patchouli
Flandre
Eirin
Aya
Maribel
Yuuka
Cirno
Wriggle
I think I got all my bases covered sort of well with this team. Komachi will have to be my primary tank followed by Yuugi or Wriggle. I should have snagged Remilia, but oh well. Does anyone see any glaring weaknesses?
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Wait a minute...you guys banned Shikieiki and Ran, but not Mystia and Iku? BLASPHEMY! If I were in that draft of yours, I'd have first picked Iku, no questions asked. Every other role is replaceable, but with your bans there's only one decent offensive buffer available (and even then, I'd still argue Iku is more broken than all those bans except Meiling and Nitori).
Anyway, my obsession with Iku aside, for Ozzy's team I'd go with Wriggle as your slot 1 tank. Komachi isn't really that great when spec'd for tanking; you kind of need Minoriko to heal her if you're relying on her massive HP pool, since even Eirin can't fill it as fast as Minoriko can. Furthermore, you lose a lot more building Komachi for HP than you do building Wriggle for DEF/MND. Wriggle's damage output is almost identical regardless of where you put her points, whereas Komachi loses out on the decent DPS from Scythe that Chooses the Dead if you don't build her for ATK. And you'd probably want her to go ATK anyway, since your team's a bit light on damage. Yuugi, Patchouli, Flandre, and Yuuka are powerhouses, to be sure, but Maribel's damage output is rather low until you can reliably keep up her buff, and Aya doesn't do that much damage without Iku backing her up. You've got a ton of utility, at least, so you can grind out boss battles.
I have no name's team looks to do the exact opposite, if only for the Yukari + Rinnosuke + 2 heavy nukers combo (Yuyuko, Youmu, and Suika can all fill that role). You'll be amazed with how many bosses you can chunk down from half health or more to 0 with World-Shaking Military Rule > Spiriting Away > switch out and in, Spiriting Away ad nauseam. Utsuho's the only weak link on the team, but even she can probably do some nice things with a 100% buff + Spiriting Away. I bet you'll get some mileage out of that against the Hibachi twins or something.
I agree with using Keine as your slot 1 tank. She'll probably end up tankier than Rinnosuke or Yukari can by virtue of her level up rate, plus she'll be too busy switching people out or keeping up buffs to do any attacking (unlike Rinnosuke, who has better damage output). Do take note, though, that your team will be really light on magic damage for a long time. Yuyuko and Utsuho both have major SP issues in the early game, and Alice's best damaging spell is actually Artful Sacrifice, which targets DEF. This shouldn't be too big of an issue, but it's still something to keep in mind.
If I'm not mistaken, whoever's left in your little draft gets Tenshi, Iku, Kanako, Marisa, Mokou, Remilia, Orin, Rumia, Sakuya, Suwako, Reisen, and Reimu. That actually looks like an amazing team to me. Tenshi is the best tank available in your pool, and Reisen is likewise the best debuffer. You even have Suwako for the PAR-lock. Iku can make almost anyone do Nitori-level damage (yes, even Sakuya), and it even has plenty of healing between Reimu and a Stickleback'd Rumia (not that Tenshi needs much healing). The biggest drawback I can see is the lack of status healing, which hurts Tenshi, Iku, and Remilia, but this obstacle is surmountable if you farm up Paralysis Rings on floor 6 and pick up a Ribbon or Shuttle Body for Tenshi later.
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Wait a minute...you guys banned Shikieiki and Ran, but not Mystia and Iku? BLASPHEMY! If I were in that draft of yours, I'd have first picked Iku, no questions asked. Every other role is replaceable, but with your bans there's only one decent offensive buffer available (and even then, I'd still argue Iku is more broken than all those bans except Meiling and Nitori).
Well Mystia was a candidate for ban early on. But none of us ever really used Iku as far as I know, so no one really thought she was that awesome.
Anyway, my obsession with Iku aside, for Ozzy's team I'd go with Wriggle as your slot 1 tank. Komachi isn't really that great when spec'd for tanking; you kind of need Minoriko to heal her if you're relying on her massive HP pool, since even Eirin can't fill it as fast as Minoriko can.
Funny, Wriggle was my last pick, the last pick of the draft period. I sure am glad to have her now after hearing that though.
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But none of us ever really used Iku as far as I know, so no one really thought she was that awesome.
Iku is absolutely broken if used right. Forget her MAG and just build up her MND, this turns her into a great MND-tank and she doesn't need MAG for her primary role anyway. No other character can buff up your offensive stats as good as Iku. You will need high PAR resistance on most of your characters, but that is not hard to achieve and being immune to paralysis also helps in lots of boss battles anyway.
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Draft run looks pretty cool. Who's in to do one of our own?
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I just started a new game, as mentioned earlier, but I'm only on floor 3. I wouldn't mind restarting again for a draft. Unfortunately, I doubt I'd be able to get my beloved Iku (either to a ban, or someone else's first pick), but that's fine. At least I didn't blab too much about who else I think is an awesome sleeper, haha.
If there's one thing I learned about drafting from playing Magic: the Gathering, it's that drafting is not just about getting individually good units, but drafting with synergy and an archetype in mind. There are party archetypes in Labyrinth of Touhou as well, which tend to fall on two different axis. This will be a good opportunity for me to theorycraft and put my theories into practice.
I wouldn't mind doing a draft with just 4 bans and no shared characters between us. I'm not really as attached to Reimu as some other people are, and would be willing to let someone else first pick her or something. As for bans, I'd definitely consider Meiling, Iku, and Nitori as the top 3 characters in the game. The 4th ban can be whoever else you think is worthy, including even Reimu (hey, I just said I personally don't like using her, not that she isn't great). My personal suggestion would be banning Renko, not because she's head-and-shoulders better than everyone else, but because she's too binary; either she makes bosses trivially easy, or contributes nothing at all to the boss fight.
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4 bans and no shares sounds good to me. I'd personally ban Eirin because nobody really wants to use her :V.
Meiling, Iku, Nitori and Renko ban is fine with me. That leaves us with 36 to choose from. One more for the draft and we'll have 3 runs of our drafted 12.
If you consider this draft like MtG, then there's bound to be hate-drafting too :V
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Oh, I know. I have half a mind to claim all the best remaining tanks, but then again I'm not that cruel. Truth is, hate drafting in MtG is only good if there's nothing in the pack for you (not even a sideboard card). Unlike in MtG, here every character is useable in our party, if sub-optimal. And it's not like we're pitting our own parties against each other or anything. Nope, hate drafting is just a form of griefing here (which is admittedly amusing and can be argued to have its place).
I've got a pick order flowchart coming along right now. I know what my #1 pick is and my contingency plan if I don't get her. I'm also prepared to go into two different party archetypes (each with separate pick orders) depending on who my #2 pick ends up being (and who my #2 pick is depends on whether or not I get my #1 pick). The exciting part is considering whether or not you guys value certain characters as highly as I do. Can I expect a particular character to wheel even though they're a high priority for me personally, but might not be widely considered high tier?
Yeah, I'm getting a bit too into this, hahaha, but this does sound quite fun. Limited is my favorite format in MtG, after all, plus I love theorycrafting about games. After we finish drafting, I'll post up my pick order flowchart and explain the choices, and would love to hear feedback concerning my logic.
Now we just need one more person to step up. Come on, join us!
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I have a save-slot, I'll be the 3rd wheel to your draft Pesco and Para. I'll just need a few mins to plan out a team and contingency.
And figure out how to get the game to recognise the 3.01 save file.
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Nice. Let's get this done on IRC.
Webchat link (http://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=MotKTown). We should be fairly uninterrupted there and there's a bot for us to roll pick order.
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Can you give me roughly 1 hour? That's when I'll be on my lunch break. Right now I'm actually still at work, hahaha...(yeah, I'm so bad).
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Yeah I'd probably vote Iku as more broken then, say, Shikieiki. Shiki gets balanced out by her huge MP costs sorta, anyway. Her SP recovery isn't that great and her leveling rate and SP pool aren't too great either, so it doesn't grow fast enough to be able to really use much with her. While her attacks are certainly very strong, they aren't insane like Nitori's even when you can cast them.
The thing is though, Iku brings in a cheap and highly effective single-target offensive buff. Mister first guy's team has several strong attackers with their OWN offensive buffs, plus Keine's buffs (even if you can't cast them too much for a good while), so he actually gets by without her pretty fine. She does do so with ridiculous mind, but, yeah, he'll be fine.
Eirin and Wriggle should be built tankily. Well, so should Sanae, but that goes more without saying (I think... but seriously, she needs the MND so she doesn't fall over when healing). This team looks pretty painful to use, honestly, while still being doable. You've got passable tanks and healers and sources of damage, but it'll be a bit of a thing. Wriggle's poison will help you out a lot, I think. She was amazing when I used her. I do also recommend offensive Komachi, she doesn't lose much in the tank department and isn't exactly a tank anyway; she can't stay out for that long unless Minoriko healspammed her, who you don't have. She's good for not going down when you do switch her in, though.
Maribel will shine some since she's able to self-buff. There is no offensive buffers in this team, and Sanae REALLY does not count because she's so slow at getting them up and not durable enough to really stay out and spam reliably. This also makes Wriggle shine more; like, Wriggle's poison is great compared to BUFFED attackers. She'll be megaawesome with most of them unbuffed :getdown:
Mystia is pretty silly with her paralysis and poison combo move, for the first team. It's not wriggle, but it's pretty strong. Honestly, the first team is really nice. The last team is a little eyebrow raising damage-dealer wise, but definitely still nice, and it has Iku, so that makes up for everything.
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I'm around generally all the time. The hour gives me time to plan my picks.
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And just to clarify, pick order loops around so that 3rd and 4th pick go to the same person, right?
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1>2>3>1>2>3 was how I was expecting it to go. I get the logic for 1>2>3>3>2>1 though.
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Well, I'm planning my strategy around 1>2>3>3>2>1.
That's how you're suppose to do Rochester drafts, which is the closest MtG analog to what we're doing. In Rochester draft, draft order reverses after everyone completes a pick.
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Rochester draft order makes more sense now since we can see each other's picks. Let's go with that then.
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Okay, I'm actually ready now.
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Well, I got firstpick and went:
Tenshi
Sanae
Aya
Marisa
Rin
Wriggle
Sukia
Cirno
Remillia
Yuuka
Kanako
Utusho
Basically, I have a lot of damage and some solid tanks, but nothing to really back them up in terms of defense buffs outside of Tenshi's own.
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Tenshi
Sanae
Aya
Marisa
Rin
Wriggle
Sukia
Cirno
Remillia
Yuuka
Kanako
Utusho
Basically, I have a lot of damage and some solid tanks, but nothing to really back them up in terms of defense buffs outside of Tenshi's own.
Sanae is your only healer, this might be a problem in fights with a lot of multitarget damage.
Are you planning on building Remilia offensive or defensive? You really lack a character who can do decent non-elemental damage if you build her for DEF and there are some bosses with 150+ in all affinities, afaik. And it's not like she can't comfortably stay in slot2 24/7 with an ATK-build anyway. Wriggle would probably have to take slot 1 for those few bosses with Rasetsu Fist then.
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Remi was going for an attack build. I picked her because I needed both damage and tankiness.
The lack of healing and defense buffs is an issue, but I can speedbuff Sanae with Aya and basically use her as a dedicated buff/heal bot. Orin's speed is more than enough to get her in and out as need be. I have Yuuka to heal too later in the game, a 10% team heal is helpful, and Yuuka can remove stat-downs. That's why I picked her even when I already had Marisa.
A big thing on my comp is also debuffs. I have Poision from Wriggle, I have Cirno's Para and Slows, Utusho's and Orin's defense drops. I wanted Reisen but she was taken.
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Going into the draft, here's what I had written down on my flowchart. Picks in each category are listed in rough order of how highly I value them, although it's really kind of variable depending on who I already have (for example, if I have Youmu then Yuugi's priority would go down).
Pick 1 - Minoriko
Reimu (if Minoriko is taken)
Tenshi + Sanae (if I'm 3rd and both Minoriko and Reimu are taken)
Pick 2 - Keine (if I have Minoriko)
Tenshi (if I don't have Minoriko)
Wriggle (if either of the above are taken)
If I have Tenshi, pick Burst archetype enablers next
If I have Keine, pick DPS archetype enablers next
If I have Wriggle, remain open (pick wild cards)
Burst archetype:
Enablers:
Kaguya (also decent enabler for DPS)
Ran (consider taking for DPS as damage dealer)
Yukari
Rinnosuke
Damage dealers:
Youmu
Suwako (consider taking for DPS due to PAR lock)
Yuugi
Kanako
Flandre (consider taking for DPS, but risky)
Shikieiki
Mokou
Yuyuko
Suika
Marisa
Maribel
DPS archetype:
Enablers:
Aya
Sakuya
Sanae (works better as a healer in Burst, as buffer in DPS)
Damage dealers:
Patchouli
Alice
Orin
Remilia
Chen
Komachi
Yuuka
Wild cards: (can work well in any party)
Mystia (high priority)
Reisen (high priority)
Rumia
Cirno
Try to avoid:
Utsuho
Eirin
My reasoning was that Minoriko was top priority because she can turn any half-decent tank into an excellent one for a low cost at any point in the game. After that, I wanted Keine, not that I thought she's a better tank than Tenshi, but because I wanted to try out the DPS setup instead of the Burst one, and Keine works better in the former than the latter (her SPD is too high to be a good switcher).
Next up I wanted to draft enablers and wild cards, with damage dealers dead last. Even if I went with a DPS setup, most of the damage dealers from the Burst archetype still work, just not as optimally. The DPS setup uses speed buffs to help characters with reasonably decent delays on their attacks stay in and spam their moves. This minimizes the need for switching, which allows Keine and Minoriko to concentrate on buffing and healing instead.
My actual draft picks were, in order:
Minoriko
Keine
Ran
Suwako
Reisen
Sakuya
Youmu
Patchouli
Flandre
Yuyuko
Shikieiki
Maribel
As the 3rd drafter in our pick order, I got to grab Minoriko and Keine first, which was exactly what I wanted. Both Aya and Kaguya were taken immediately after, so I decided to go with Ran to shore up my need for buffs. However, with my final team I might consider just building her as a straight attacker. But that's why I picked her here: because she has the versatility to fulfill either role. I also noticed that both Reimu and Mystia were taken, and I didn't really want Cirno when I stood a good chance of picking up Reisen, so I grabbed Suwako for the strong PAR effect.
For my next two picks, I got Reisen and Sakuya to finish off my team's need for utility players. Reisen was actually one of my highest priority characters (I value her almost as much as I do Mystia), but I correctly guessed that I could pick her up around the middle of the pack because I figured most people don't like her as much as I do. Sakuya was the last utility character I picked up because while she does fill an irreplacable role in my team, Raikaria already had a speed buffer and Pesco was looking to draft the Burst archetype, which doesn't need speed buffs at all. I might have even been able to get away with picking her later than I did.
With the utility requirements of my team complete, I was finally looking to draft pure damage dealers. Luckily, I already had Reisen, Ran, and Suwako, all of who are excellent damage dealers in addition to the utility they offered. By this point several of the good DPS damage dealers were already claimed (Alice, Orin, etc.), so I went with Patchouli and Youmu to cover both magical and physical damage. While Youmu does offer great bursty high delay damage with Slash of Eternity, her Flashing Cherry Blossoms has remarkably low delay for its power and could work in a DPS setup if necessary. Plus, her staying in lets me take advantage of her bonus SP focus in the early game. Flandre and Yuyuko were my next picks, once again covering two different damage types. Both have low delay moves that don't demand my switching them out, so they still fit reasonably well into my strategy (although Flandre is a bit fragile for what I want to do).
My last two picks were simply the remaining characters not on my "try to avoid" list. Maribel works as a second Reisen, just worse in most ways (but gains some merits in a Burst party setup). I was really surprised to see Shikieiki coming this late, as I figured whoever was drafting the Burst archetype would have grabbed her by then. She doesn't fit well with a DPS strategy, but sometimes it's nice to have a plan B that's completely different from plan A for situations where plan A isn't the best. Also, I did technically pick up a multi-target PAR spell, didn't I?
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my team. I got most of the utility characters that I wanted, and while the damage dealers are somewhat interchangeable, I think I came out well with those too. My team looks to have the best early game out of all the teams drafted, but I've still got some late-game characters like Reisen, Flandre, Yuyuko, and Shikieiki. Elemental coverage looks great as well, missing only a good CLD nuke (which only Kanako has anyway). Overall, I'm quite pleased with how this went.
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The lists and their pick order. Just put Tenshi and Minoriko as first pick of their respective lists.
[19:24:30] <@Keine-tan> Serela: "pescolist" is (#1) Mystia, or (#2) Reimu, or (#3) Kaguya, or (#4) Yuugi, or (#5) Alice, or (#6) Rumia, or (#7) Komachi, or (#8) Chen, or (#9) Rinnosuke, or (#10) Yukari, or (#11) Mokou, or (#12) Eirin
[19:24:34] <@Keine-tan> Serela: "raikaria" is (#1) Sanae, or (#2) Aya, or (#3) Marisa, or (#4) Rin, or (#5) Wriggle, or (#6) Sukia, or (#7) Cirno, or (#8) Remillia, or (#9) Yuuka, or (#10) Kanako, or (#11) Utusho, or (#12) Tenshi
[19:24:38] <@Keine-tan> Serela: "parallaxalist" is (#1) Keine, or (#2) Ran, or (#3) Suwako, or (#4) Reisen, or (#5) Sakuya, or (#6) Youmu, or (#7) Patchouli, or (#8) Flandre, or (#9) Yuyuko, or (#10) Shikeiki, or (#11) Maribel, or (#12) Minoriko
NG+ save file with all the BP requirements pre-set attached. I'll link it in the OP as well for other people to use.
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Flandre and Yuyuko were my next picks, once again covering two different damage types. Both have low delay moves that don't demand my switching them out, so they still fit reasonably well into my strategy (although Flandre is a bit fragile for what I want to do).
I don't think leaving Flandre in in bossbattles is ever a good idea. She has decent max-hp, so she can probably take a hit in the beginning despite her terrible defenses, but after 2 or 3 starbow breaks she will be at 1hp for the rest of the battle and even the weakest row-target attacks will kill her in slot4.
Edit: After looking at the list I'm really surprised that some characters were picked so late. Especially Yukari, she was one of the last characters?
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I don't think leaving Flandre in in bossbattles is ever a good idea. She has decent max-hp, so she can probably take a hit in the beginning despite her terrible defenses, but after 2 or 3 starbow breaks she will be at 1hp for the rest of the battle and even the weakest row-target attacks will kill her in slot4.
I'm quite aware of that. I plan to leave her in only against bosses with few multi-target attacks, or against things I can PAR-lock with Suwako. There are several examples of the former that I can think of. For example, Yuugi's boss fight, Rinnosuke's first and last forms, and Foe-type bosses in between Flowing Hellfire.
I believe that disregarding enemy attacks, a SPD-buffed Flandre has the highest DPS of any character without switching out (Chen might be close, but Flandre benefits more from others buffing her). It's risky, as I noted earlier, but it might just be worth the risk.
Edit: After looking at the list I'm really surprised that some characters were picked so late. Especially Yukari, she was one of the last characters?
Yukari doesn't fit with the strategy that I had, and Pesco already had Kaguya early. Although I suppose Raikaria could have picked Yukari earlier, she seems to fit well into that party.
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Just asking, does anyone have a link to the Pocket Wars pack? The one on Poosh is linked to Megaupload and well... :derp:
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Just asking, does anyone have a link to the Pocket Wars pack? The one on Poosh is linked to Megaupload and well... :derp:
I'm not sure if it's in one of the links in the first post, but I could upload it later when I get home if you still haven't found it by then.
(You are asking for the character portraits, right?)
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I'll admit I went in without knowing what Archetype I wanted. So I went and firstpicked Tenshi for a reliable tank. [She's listed last because I didn't know the command for IRC when I picked her]
I was intending to pick Minoriko next, however she was snapped up Para first [Sane situation as Tenshi]. Reimu was also picked by Pesco. As a result, my second pick was Sanae, because Eirin wouldn't exactly cut it when healing Tenshi. I picked Aya because I knew I wanted Aya's speedbuff, the healing pool was already dying up, so I needed speed to keep Sanae up with demand.
Another round of picks passed, and I lost Reisen, who I wanted. I picked up Marisa for trash cleaning and Master Spark, and Rin for swapping, debuffs, and general utility in many situations.
Wriggle was next because I wanted her reliable poisions, and Sukia was because I needed a physical nuke.
Next round was Cirno, because I realised I needed paralysis, and Remi as a secondary tank and non-elemental damage dealer.
Yuuka and Kanako were mainly filler, although they have high damage capabilty, and double Master Spark really lets me nuke bosses. Utusho was the last one left.
I wanted Keine and Reisen, but alas, I didn't get them.
@ Headphones: I belive it's included in one of the two packs listed on the OP. Can't recall which one though.
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Well, you took my Aya and Orin, so we're even. :P
It's really interesting to see how drastically different we value certain characters in this format, compared to just a regular game. With Meiling and Iku banned, Tenshi and Keine jump up tremendously in value. With no Nitori to work with, Yukari drops in our esteem. It's amazing how priorities shift once an alternative is sealed off.
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Yukari has more going for her than just Spiriting Away though.
Especially IN Quadraple Barrier for Raikaria's team. And she's a passable tank as well.
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Team (9) solo was totally viable if only Raikaria hadn't taken Wriggle and Cirno just the turn before I was going to take them.
I sort of went with my favourite characters first since I was familiar with I should do with them. My picks were between Para and Raikaria so I wouldn't often get the best at anything other than my first picks. Yukari and Rinno were taken to be my tanks. But Yuugi may end up being my slot 1 with one of those in slot 2. I'm also pretty pressed for choice with my MND tank. I'm going pure MND on Reimu, Kaguya and Eirin for that. Everyone else on my team is on attack duty. My mages are pretty lacking as I'll only have Rumia and Mokou as dedicated mages. Alice replaces Yuugi's KO3S since Return Inanimateness targets DEF.
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You know, Kaguya is more than capable of being a MAG-based nuker.
Just sayin'.
But support Kaguya is fine too. Her MND is even better than I gave it credit for. And both her and Yukari can become a second copy of whoever you need anyway.
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I'm not sure if it's in one of the links in the first post, but I could upload it later when I get home if you still haven't found it by then.
(You are asking for the character portraits, right?)
Yup, I'm asking for them portraits.
Though I just checked the second charagraph pack and Pocket Wars is in there, so no need for that upload, thanks anyway.
(And thanks for Raikaria for making me look.)
@EDIT
Well, apparently the cheat tables aren't working for me, so I can't set my encounter rate to 0 when I wanna fight a boss to preserve resources.
What gives? >_>
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What have I done :V (again)
Well, apparently the cheat tables aren't working for me, so I can't set my encounter rate to 0 when I wanna fight a boss to preserve resources.
I couldn't get the cheat tables working either, but the memory address where the encounter rate is stored is 00171580 on Vista and 00181580 on Win 7.
No I don't know why it's different, but all Win 7 addresses are exactly 10000 higher than the corresponding address on Vista.
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Didn't work for me, but when I actually decided to stop being lazy and went to find the encounter rate value, at least on Win7 Ultimate, it seems to be 0121580
Soo... 50000 lower than vista and 60000 than Win7, what?
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That just means it might not be OS based.
My sample size is 2 anyway :V
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Finished up floor 1 of my draft run. At this point in the game, Tenshi, Kanako, Utusho, Yuuka and Sukia are practically useless, due to their SP costs, or the fact Remi outdamages them massively after a Curse.
Ironically, in terms of raw damage potential, due to not having Patchouli, I'm actually lower due to SP limitations at this point. Of course this will change as I proceed throughout the game, in terms of raw damage, I think I have the most out of Pesco, Para and myself. [I have Double Master Spark, Throwing Mt Atlas, and several other major nukes]. But by that point damage will not be my worry, it'll be surviveing to nuke before I get destroyed myself.
Beat Meiling at around Lv 4~6 [Cirno 6, others 5 or 4], and Chen after a return to Gensokyo after. Ironically, I found Meiling HARDER. Meling was just more durable than Chen, and because of my lack of damage at that point outside of a Tepes Boosted Remillia... I did get a Poision off from Wriggle, however.
Chen went down very fast. I just Speedbuffed Sanae with Aya, Tepes with Remi, cure the afflications, speedbuff Remi, and then Miricle Fruit on Cirno who spammed Diamond Blizzard. A switch to Sukia later to blow all her SP on a single Throwing Atlas and Chen died from Gungir spam. At this point Tenshi isn't as good a tank as Remi, simply due to her lower HP and inabilty to use State of Enlightenment.
[Also leveled Rinnosuke once to confirm something I never bothered to check. Apparently, he's a lady according to that level-up goddess!]
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Oi, this is withhelde from I have no name's and Ozzy's draft.
I really feel comfortable with my picks and probably am going to pull some wacky builds with my 12 (Tenshi, Iku, Kanako, Marisa, Mokou, Remilia, Orin, Rumia, Sakuya, Suwako, Reisen, and Reimu).
When I return home on Monday night, I'll likely stream my entire run through in a week on my account (http://www.twich.tv/withhelde).
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I haven't actually started playing because I've been too busy picking out just the right portraits for my team.
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Eirin and Wriggle should be built tankily. Well, so should Sanae, but that goes more without saying (I think... but seriously, she needs the MND so she doesn't fall over when healing). This team looks pretty painful to use, honestly, while still being doable. You've got passable tanks and healers and sources of damage, but it'll be a bit of a thing. Wriggle's poison will help you out a lot, I think. She was amazing when I used her. I do also recommend offensive Komachi, she doesn't lose much in the tank department and isn't exactly a tank anyway; she can't stay out for that long unless Minoriko healspammed her, who you don't have. She's good for not going down when you do switch her in, though.
I'm aware of my lack of offensive buffers. I realized that with Ran out of the picture I should have gone for either Iku or Keine. But unfortunately I realized too late. And it just so happens that none of the characters I have have self buffs either, except Maribel. Will this be much of a problem? I thought I heard that it was more important to have defensive buffs than offensive buffs.
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But yeah, I think offensive buffs aren't strictly needed. Defense is much more important.
Was it this perhaps? I've only played through the game once, so don't take my word for it. :derp:
I think it's true though, in most cases. I felt like any boss I could survive against would eventually go down after enough time, so higher damage would just be a time-saver. I've no experience with trying to rush the bosses with lots of damage though, since my team had no offensive buffs aside from Kaguya, but judging from Parallaxal's love of Iku, I'm guessing offense can make a big difference.
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AFAIK, some bosses can burst you down in seconds even with +100% DEF and MND, Flandre with Laevantainn and especially Yuuka with Master Spark as well as Shikieiki with Bar of the Ten Kings spring to mind.
So in these cases, defense is useless and you should try to turn these 1m into 2m if you wanna survive.
Though these three are the only ones I can think of where you should really just kill before you're killed, there's also mokou but...
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Funny thing is, Laevantainn is Fire-based, so you can also gear for fire resist along with enough MND/DEF considering it's composite for that case and reduce the damage far more. I agree on Shikieiki considering that spell is non-elemental, though. Yuuka kind of requires huge amounts of MYS resists and HP to survive Master Spark if you can't make it in time, though, to prevent wipes.
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Well, all this business here has inspired me to revive my stupid idea of a final boss run, for better or worse. I want to ask for advice from the more experienced players here, mainly about how I should build certain characters. Given this team:
Yuuka
Reimu
Remilia
Yuyuko
Suika
Eirin
Kaguya
Eiki
Tenshi
Kanako
Utsuho
Maribel
How should I build Yuyuko, Suika, Eirin, Kanako, and Maribel? I haven't used them before so I'm not sure how they work. Any other kinds of advice are welcome as well, of course.
And about those bosses like Flandre and whoever, for some of them you always have the option of just returning to them later. Eiki kinda gets in your way, though personally I never witnessed Bar of the Ten Kings. I guess I might have just been lucky there.
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Suika: ATK
Maribel, Yuyuko, and Kanako: MAG
Eirin: MND, maybe some DEF, depending on which slot you have her sit in
You have a strong tank already with Tenshi, so there's not as much need to make the rest of your team tanky. Tenshi is great at being a stone wall while switching high delay nukers in and out, so you can afford to build characters like Kanako and Shikieiki for pure offense.
Eirin is in kind of a weird spot in that her offense is still sub-par compared to the rest of your team even if you build her pure MAG, so instead you can dedicate her as more of a MND tank while Tenshi focuses on DEF, or use her as a durable support character for more switches and the occasional Hourai Elixir.
As far as offensive buffs go, they're useful because there are quite a few bosses that you want to finish off quickly. I don't care how many group DEF/MND buffs you can cast, I doubt your team can survive for an indefinite period of time against any bosses that self-buffs to the extreme when low on health. Rinnosuke, Yukari, and the main game's final boss all come to mind. And let's not even get started on the Hibachi twins.
In fact, most Plus Disk bosses are of the kill-or-be-killed variety. Baal Avatar will keep gaining bonus ATK and SPD until he dies. No one can really survive multiple Giga Flares from Utsuho. Serpent of Chaos's 3rd form has attacks that can 2 million damage even to Meiling with full DEF/MND buffs. There are so many boss fights in this game where something can go wrong if you just try to grind them out, so I find that nuking them for that final stretch is definitely more than worth it.
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Restarting a run on LoT I finally decided I'm going all the way through this time, no cheat engine (With the exception of encounter rate for bosses to save resources), no NG+. nothing, just going through the game normally.
I finished Floor 1 no problems, Meiling got steamrolled, though Chen did give me a few headaches, she was quickly dispatched as well, floor 2 was annoying with these shadowcats, I had to pretty much hope they didn't Par-Lock my entire party. :/
My fight with Cirno was a huge gamble, at best, if she casted Diamond Blizzard even once I was royally screwed, though I got lucky with her debuffs not landing, so I made it safe and sound, took me two tries to beat her (Got PAR/SPD Debuffed way too much first try, which resulted in her ramming me with Diamond Blizzard and Perfect Freeze over and over for a game over.) and a total of four to get her item.
Youmu... Well, first try she instantly casted Focus and followed up with God Slash of Karma Wind which immediately wiped out my party with the exception of Remilia (And I wasn't even gonna try without Reimu and Patchy.), second try through though and I discovered how reliable both Sakuya's SPD Buffs and Cirno's SPD Debuffs are. By putting an all SP-Recovery items on Sakuya, I was able to cast Lunar Clock on my party about 6~7 times through the whole thing, and with Cirno's Icicle Fall, Youmu was barely attacking at all. It took forever for her to fall, but she eventually did and never casted God Slash, though she did snipe Minoriko halfway through, unfortunately. Overall an easy battle, Myon was giving me more trouble than Youmu herself, and I got her item first try, yay.
Will do 3F and beyond maybe tomorrow, but now that I get how important debuffs and buffs are in this game, I can safely say that this playthrough will be much smoother than the last.
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AFAIK, some bosses can burst you down in seconds even with +100% DEF and MND, Flandre with Laevantainn a[...] springs to mind.
So in these cases, defense is useless and you should try to turn these 1m into 2m if you wanna survive.
I have exactly the opposite experience.
I think it's ridiculously easy to get Flandre's Laevateinn to do close to 0 damage if you have a character with good combined defensive stats und near +100% buffs. It doesn't even have to be Tenshi, in my last playthrough I managed to do that with both Eirin and Yukari while still being at the lower end of the level recommendation.
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Got to Cirno at Lv 8~10 [Wriggle being the only 10]. Very quickly nuked her down with the Aya-Sanae-Remi tactic, also hitting nukes with Rin [Who was then promptly OHKO'ed afterwards but I don't care because she was pretty much out of SP after that anyway], Sukia, Marisa's Master Spark and Utusho's Hell Tomahawk for the kill.
I could have done it a lot safer than I did, but I basically just wanted to see what sort of damage benchmarks I was hitting at this point, so I know my limits better for Youmu, who I'm not looking foward to because Tenshi still can't use State of Enlightenment.
Also when I beat Cirno her level-ups reset, and her SP spent and held items vanished. I guess this will happen for the other characters too. That's gonna be painful for Utusho, Yuuka and Kanako. [Or I can just avoid their fights and not have this reset]
But at least I know now. It just means I can't fight Sukia, Utusho, Sanae's Foe, ect, and shouldn't talk to Wriggle or Aya after their quests are done.
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The resets only happened in one of the early versions. If you're properly patched to 3.01 it shouldn't do that.
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Well, my version is 3.01, and the 3.01 english patch works fine on it.
Weird.
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Made it to the 3rd floor with my draft team. Boss fights were fairly uneventful. I mean, I have Yuyuko, how hard can those early fights be?
Random encounters haven't been too bad so far. Keine, Reisen, Sakuya, Suwako, Patchouli, and Ran are all excellent at sweeping floor trash in the early game. However, I do find myself remebering again why I hate those Bronze Sorceresses to no end because no one on my team was fast enough to outspeed them until I was almost done with the 2nd floor. And running into 4 Bronze Sorceresses at once is no fun at all.
It has come to my attention that I have two almost identically good tanks on my team. Keine is the obvious one, but apparently it slipped my mind that Sakuya is more or less just as tanky. The two of them actually have identical HP, DEF, and MND growths. Sakuya levels up ever so slightly faster, but Keine has superior affinities. There's one more thing I've discovered that gives Keine the edge: her skill point costs to level up DEF and MND are actually lower than Sakuya's. Still, it's nice to have two nearly interchangable main tanks, especially since they both fulfill the same role in boss fights: spam party buffs.
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I've just reached Floor 3 too.
I actually had some trouble with Youmu, because she decided to instagib Sanae as soon as I casted Divine Wind on Remillia to heal PAR and PSN from Tepes, and then she took Aya out shortly afterwards. This was compounded by Youmu's Ghost Half proccing PSN on both Tenshi and Remillia.
So, I was left without my speed buffs and heals. I think I was down to Remi, Tenshi, Sukia, Wriggle, Kanako, Marisa and Yuka at the end of the fight. I did manage to kill off Youmu and her Ghost half pretty much at the same time, however [I was focusing on Youmu, but AoE killed Myon]
Floor 3 is going OK right now. The way I do floor 3 is fully explore it before going onto 4, gives me an excuse to grind. Marisa and Cirno are trashclearing well. I then explore F4, then go beat up the bosses... not counting the dolls.
Decided to build some SP on Utusho and Kanako so they are useable before endgame. Even lategame, Utusho's SP costs are horrific, Kanako can fight somewhat now, but she needs some SP too. I'm probobly going to need them against Alice after all, if only to buy time for Wriggle's Poisions to whittle down Healing Light...
But I should have State of Englightenment by then. Although in all fairness Remi's probobly goning to be the main tank for Alice, because Tenshi will be using her Sword to try and disspell the defensive buffs on Healing Light.
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I am clearly behind. This needs to be fixed immediately.
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Went up against Rumia, the first boss I couldn't cheese with instant death attacks. I had to settle for Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana chunking her for 6k damage instead.
Moonlight Ray does about 50 damage to Keine without buffs, and 0 damage after buffs. I think she'll be fine for now. The real test is how well she can tank Yuugi's Supernatural Phenomenon, although that will take a while to get there.
I really hate those stupid little tengu.
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Mokou has turned out to be quite a nice slot 2 so far even without building her for it. It's not so much that she can take a hit, just that she does happen to have the TP to stick around even if mobs get a turn in. Mokou also appears to be quite fast for a mage.
Pure ATK Komachi with no items currently has the highest offensive stat in my team. On paper with the modifiers on her biggest nuke, it's pretty cost effective and fast.
Currently not having enough SKP to put Yukari and Rinno's TP to respectable levels for proper tanking.
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Currently not having enough SKP to put Yukari and Rinno's TP to respectable levels for proper tanking.
The drop of the 2 St. Elmo's Fires on 5F and 6F is a +8 TP item. Consider getting those for them.
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The drop of the 2 St. Elmo's Fires on 5F and 6F is a +8 TP item. Consider getting those for them.
I have never got those drops and didn't know they existed.
BRB noteing this down for Yuuka and her 5 Base TP.
Also I join your hate for those freaking small Tengu. Aya's not fast enough to outspeed them yet, and even then, they resist Wind. They also have this wonderful habit of double-tackleing Cirno or Marisa, who, as my main trashclearers, forces me to go back.
Sukia is proveing a useful slot 2 right now when it's called, simply because she has pretty nice HP. Obviously she's not ideal, and once Tenshi can use SofE Remillia will be slot 2 in boss fights...
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I'll do the equips changeups once I'm there. On top of redoing the boss fights until the drops appear as well.
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The draft I'm in has a ban on instant death moves on bosses :V
Also, I have Chen and Mystia, probably the 2 fastest characters in the game. I don't see failing to outspeed enemies being a problem until the 10th floor.
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The draft I'm in has a ban on instant death moves on bosses :V
Also, I have Chen and Mystia, probably the 2 best trash clearers in the game. I don't see failing to powergrind on enemies being a problem until the 10th floor.
Fixed it for ya.
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The powergrinding option with Chen and Mystia on your team is very true. It's viable enough for me to farm for Bomb Rings, and Black Onyxes on 3F and 4F.
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The draft I'm in has a ban on instant death moves on bosses :V
Seems kind of pointless to me. If you can't beat the bosses of the first 2 floors with a full party of any 12 characters, I don't really see how you could survive the rest of this game.
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Seems kind of pointless to me. If you can't beat the bosses of the first 2 floors with a full party of any 12 characters, I don't really see how you could survive the rest of this game.
This really just means that Komachi can't be used to attack, and Yuyuko only has 1 available move for Meiling, Chen, Youmu and Cirno-all of which are fights that a normal playthrough wouldn't have 12 characters yet.
Basically, we're going to fight the fights instead of using "loldeath" on them because it's fun that way.
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Chen is good on trash? I never really used her much on trash, because row-target attacks usually aren't that great. I guess she can outspeed most enemies and remove that one annoying mob with ATK-buff+Flight of Idaten before it gets a turn, but Aya, Remilia and Orin should be able to do that too.
I agree with Parallaxal on instant death vs bosses. It only works on the first 2 floors and if you're starting with 12 characters it's basically just a time-saver.
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Chen is good on trash? I never really used her much on trash, because row-target attacks usually aren't that great. I guess she can outspeed most enemies and remove that one annoying mob with ATK-buff+Flight of Idaten before it gets a turn, but Aya, Remilia and Orin should be able to do that too.
I agree with Parallaxal on instant death vs bosses. It only works on the first 2 floors and if you're starting with 12 characters it's basically just a time-saver.
Build her pure ATK and SPD.
Pair her with a second somewhat fast AoE, like Marisa. Make the other two characters who can handle tougher single targets and take some punishment. Remi comes to mind instantly.
Spam Pheonix Wings.
Wipe trash off the earth.
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>Build her pure ATK and SPD.
I don't think there's another way to build her. :V
I still don't see it.
I'll try it, but right now it doesn't seem much better than just using another somewhat fast character with a multi-PAR move and then killing everyting off with big multitarget attacks or just using 2-3 multitarget attacks to kill everything off before most enemies get a turn, because there really aren't many enemies in this game that can outspeed most characters.
For the faster trash, a single Phoenix Spread Wing won't kill more than maybe the first enemy and while Chen is extremely fast she's not fast enough to act again before the enemies after using a Phoenix Spread Wing, so I don't see the big advantage over using another character with stronger multitarget moves if you can't kill all the fast enemies before they get a turn. Taking attacks from 2 Tengus instead of 3 is certainly not bad, but not that amazing either. Maybe I'm missing something here...
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What I did was pair her with Aya, have both use their multi-target/row-target attacks, and watch the giblets fly!
Well, if you have Aya available that is.
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My own method for most of the game was to paralyze everything with Cirno, then win by default. I also have a hard time believing Chen can kill everything before it moves where someone else couldn't.
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Took down Alice, she was quite easy. Opened up with Three Treasures: Orb into Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana and Silent Selene, which took out most of Healing Light's HP. Royal Flare ended up finishing it off. I didn't even have to use Last Judgment, which I had prepared just in case. Beautiful Light and Magical Light both died at the same time from Royal Flare and other multi-target spells, then I switched in Flandre while Alice's gauge was low, buffed her speed with Sakuya, and landed two Starbow Breaks for 4k damage each to finish her off.
Got Alice's drop on my first try too, nice.
EDIT: Now on Yuugi. I decided to fight her before embarking to the 6th floor, since I already had 400 battles down. My team ranges from level 26 (Minoriko) to 22 (Shikeiki). Keine at level 24 is capable of tanking Yuugi reasonably well, with about 1.3k HP and 650 DEF. Supernatural Phenomenon does about 1-1.2k damage, depending on buffs. Yuugi herself goes down pretty quickly thanks to double Three Treasures: Orb buffing up both Patchouli and Ran. The MAG buff also ensures that Minoriko can heal for more than enough to counteract Supernatural Phenomenon. A Luna Dial to start things off keeps Minoriko's speed up to the task as well.
Now farming Yuugi for that stupid Lion King's Soul. She's easy enough, but please drop already!
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The main selling points to Chen:
Pheonix Wings costs almost nothing [24 SP] and has short delay, it's also pretty good damage, 330% ATK - 50% T.DEF
High Focus Recharge, so if she's on low SP she can just regain 30%+ of it and let the rest of the party clear if there's a trash wave that's easily killable without a pheonix wings.
Pretty high TP
Very fast leveling rate
Non-elemental attacks
She sucks hard at boss fights so you don't need to worry about her being low on SP getting to a boss or something.
Selfbuff with 1% delay
Of course, the downsides:
Paper
Purely physical
Purely non-elemental.
Multi-target is a row attack [Easily cleaned up by single target cheap attackers, like Remi]
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When trash sweeping with Chen, I like to pretend that she just has a single really powerful row-target attack that costs 72 SP, since her self-buff is fast enough to let her go again immediately, and that + Phoenix Spread Wings is enough damage to rival most trash-sweeping nukes. It works very well on enemies that are in groups of 3; she'll usually kill the first 2 and bring the 3rd down really low. It's also great against fast enemies that tend to stand on the left side for some reason (like those floating swords on floor 7).
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The main selling points to Chen:
She sucks hard at boss fights so you don't need to worry about her being low on SP getting to a boss or something.
What? I think she's a high-tier damage dealer against bosses.
she'll usually kill the first 2 and bring the 3rd down really low.
Doesn't that stop working around floor 13 when trash starts getting decent hp?
Don't understand me wrong, Chen is certainly not bad on trash, I just think she's not even close to being the 2nd best trash clearer in the game. Let's take Orin as an example - she can outspeed almost anything too and Blazing Wheel has no trouble killing the enemies in position #3 and #4 as well.
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I just took down Yuugi and got Lion King's Soul on my second try, I have all available characters up to 7F, I'm running this party:
Meiling (Slot 1)
Remi (Slot 2)
Youmu (Slot 3)
Patchy (Slot 4)
Iku
Minoriko
Yuugi
Reimu
Marisa
Sakuya
Cirno
Aya
All are doing very standard stuff, level-up wise I've been building Yuugi, Remi and Youmu on pure offensive, while taking care of Remi's tankyness and Youmu's speed through Skillpoints. Sakuya, Cirno and Aya I've been building pure SPD (Which explain why they are the fastest chars on my party), the rest has been either pure MND (With some SKP on Minoriko's and Reimu's MAG to help with healing) and MAG for Marisa, as well as all-around tankyness for Meiling (though with some emphasis on MND).
Please tell me I've been doing stuff right, my heavy emphasis on MND is thanks to the fact that I want that Eientei Trio dead when I get to them, simply because I've never beaten them before without cheat engine :colonveeplusalpha:
(Also, Yuugi is currently my streongest nuke, her KO in 3 Steps deals 14k damage when fully buffed, patchy can barely break the 10k mark with Silent Selene.)
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either pure MND (With some SKP on Minoriko's and Reimu's MAG to help with healing)
Please tell me I've been doing stuff right, my heavy emphasis on MND is thanks to the fact that I want that Eientei Trio dead when I get to them, simply because I've never beaten them before without cheat engine :colonveeplusalpha:
Sentences like that always confuse me. By "pure", do you mean that you "only" raise that single stat through SKP on that character? The sentence after that sounds like that to me and I think that's horribly, horribly wrong.
It's right to put a heavy emphasis on the characters strengths, but completely neglecting to raise the other stats is just not good when you can get 10 levels in DEF for the same cost that would get you 1 level in ATK.
I usually think of primary, secondary and (sometimes) tertiary stats for my characters. (And unused stats like MAG on Remi or EVA on all characters and I also count stats like Flandre's or Patchy's DEF as unused, because no matter how much you raise them, the skillpoints are wasted). Of course I never invest anything in unused stats. Late in the maingame or at the beginning of the plus disk it'd be something like DEF lvl90, ATK lvl70, HP lvl70+. MND lvl 70, MAG lvl30 (it factors into her healing), SPD lvl 50+ on Meiling, for example.
Other than that: If your problems with Eientei were Astronomical Entombing and Hourai Barrage in your earlier playthroughs then raising MND will get you nothing, because both of those spells completely ignore it. If you want to reduce their damage you need to raise your SPI affinity.
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Usually I just assume they mean level bonuses when they say "pure" ATK or MAG or MND or whatever. Skill points are plentiful and there's more to go around.
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Usually I just assume they mean level bonuses when they say "pure" ATK or MAG or MND or whatever. Skill points are plentiful and there's more to go around.
I'd think so too, the sentence just confused me. It might be because english is not my first language.
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It is confusing. At the start he said "level-up wise" but later said "some SKP", so I'm not sure. Saying "some" there does sound a bit dubious though, since with skillpoints you should certainly be increasing everything in varying amounts, aside from useless things of course.
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What? I think she's a high-tier damage dealer against bosses.
I just don't like using Chen in boss fights, because if she gets so much as poked she's dead. One misjudgement of the enemy speed and Chen dies.
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Sorry, that was written in a hurry.
Anyway, when I said "some SKP" it's because they are only two characters, and I'm focusing my points mainly on my four most active members (Meiling, Remi Youmu and Patch), for Reimu and Minoriko, most of the SKP being spent on them is being put in their MAG (Though I'm not completely neglecting their MND) while all of their Level-Up Bonuses are being spent on MND. Reimu has 900-ish MND and 600-ish MAG at level 27, Minoriko has 700-ish on both, also at level 27. (Though their Equips are focusing on MND (For Reimu) and MAG (For Minoriko))
That sound okay?
(Also, I'm barely using Marisa at all, any suggestions on who should I swap her with?)
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(Also, I'm barely using Marisa at all, any suggestions on who should I swap her with?)
If you want to replace her then replace her with another MAG-based character, otherwise Patchouli will be your only character who can deal good damage against high-DEF targets.
Don't put too much emphasis on MND if it's only for Eientei. A high MND-stat is certainly nice to have in the Eientei battle (and not only there), but their big killer spells that ruin most attempts are MND-ignoring.
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I'd say Alice, assuming you have her. She has both magic and physical attacks, a good single target, and she's pretty durable. She'd also give you some debuffs, I think.
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I'd say Alice, assuming you have her. She has both magic and physical attacks, a good single target, and she's pretty durable. She'd also give you some debuffs, I think.
Def and M.Def lowering attacks, to self-support her own damage.
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Alice debuffs everything except SPD, actually. Artful Sacrifice debuffs ATK, Seeker Dolls lowers MAG, Little Legion hits DEF, and Hourai Doll weakens MND. Artful Sacrifice is also her most damaging spell, although it's only single-target and FIR elemental.
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I made some custom portraits for my 4 character run. They're not perfect, but maybe someone likes them and wants to use them, so I'm attaching them to this post.
Edit: Goddamnit, this post got longer than I thought because of that, sorry for that. Maybe I should've made a .rar instead
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Bonuses from levelups will always be less than what you buy with SKP. So when I say 'pure XXX' it means levelups and SKP levels on that stat. Something like 'hybrid with MND slant' on a character like Kaguya would mean SKP focus on MND and levelups into MAG to me. If a build is just termed hybrid, I assume equal split of levelups and SKP into the stats.
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Still doesn't really make much sense to me.The actual functional difference between the two stats is a lot smaller than the effect that your level bonus should have, because it depends on the difference between the skill level of the stat you're emphasizing and the ones you're not.
For example, let's say you have a level 50 Kaguya that you were doing your "hybrid with MND slant". You might have 50 SKP in MND at that point, and only 30 SKP in MAG, but you spent all your level ups in MAG. However, a difference of 20 SKP levels in MND only means an additional 60% more MND compared to MAG, but a full 50 levels in MAG means you got 100% more MAG than MND from levels. So your "hybrid with MND slant" is still technically emphasizing MAG in the long run.
To put it another way, whenever you're considering focusing on different stats for SKP and level ups, if the SKP cost of raising the stat your focusing ever surpasses 150% of the cost to raise the stat you're spending level ups on, then you're no longer spending your resources efficiently. That 150% threshold is fairly low as far as SKP levels are concerned, as it will pretty much ALWAYS result in a much lower impact on your stats compared to how you've been distributing your level ups.
You can also look at it as meaning that the opportunity cost and gain from your level up bonus is equal to 2/3 of the SKP cost needed to get another skill level into that stat. Because of this, it's actually most cost-effective to be spending your level up bonuses on whichever stat you've emphasized the most in terms of SKP. If you're spending, say, 3 level up bonuses on MAG and 2 SKP on MND, but MND costs you a lot more than MAG to skill up because you emphasized it for SKP, then you probably could have spent those 3 level up bonuses on MND and gotten maybe 3+ levels of MAG out of that SKP, for a net gain in your total stats.
As the game goes on, it only gets more and more impractical for the difference in skill levels to grow greater than your overall level. The mechanics of the game encourage you to keep your SKP distributions even, thus minimizing differences in skill levels, but your level will keep growing linearly. In the long run the opportunity costs from level ups are actually far greater than what you buy with SKP. Thus, I'd define focusing on a particular stat as spending comparatively limited and precious resources (i.e. level ups) rather than something relatively plentiful (i.e. SKP).
Does this make sense, or should I give some specific examples (with numbers) to illustrate what I mean?
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Finished sweeping Floor 3, although I've not fought Rumia yet.
Starting on Floor 4, and I have one thing to say:
I Hate Aeros.
These things are faster than anyone I have right now except Aya, and like those Tengu, they resist Wind. If they Swoop, say, Cirno, she dies instantly.
HNNGK.
I miss Chen Q_Q
I'm Lv 14~16 right now.
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I just stick all of my level up bonuses into one given stat for a character and just spread my SKP as evenly as I possibly can among everything else, skipping stats like ATK and MAG for characters who don't use one of them, basically raising anything but totally useless stats.
Boring, yes. Practical, most certainly.
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Shouldn't have taken my Wriggle if you wanted Chen :V
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Shouldn't have taken my Wriggle if you wanted Chen :V
I knew I wanted Wriggle for bosses, I picked her somewhat early, I just never realised how much I'd MISS Chen and her trashclearing.
You took my Rumia so it's K.
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A few SKP into SPD, and now Sakuya is easily outrunning and sweeping most fast and annoying enemies, like the Aeroes on Floor 4 and those sword thingies on Floor 7. Usually after a level or two behind Sakuya, Ran is capable of the same feats (I had forgotten how AMAZING she is at trash sweeping: high speed, cheap and strong spells, and even decent TP!).
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Beat Rumia with relative ease besides Orin and Cirno dying due to her spamming Dark Side of the Moon at one point, and both having heen debuffed by a Demarkation which caused havoc on her first turn. Remi got ALL her stats debuffed!
I'm guessing Rumia is resistant to MYS seeing how little damage Marisa did to her with a Spark at full SP compared to everything else. Even Remi's Tepes Boosted Spears were doing more damage.
Was Lv 16~18 for that fight. I'm currently farming Bomb Cores for Ifrit, because they raise Cirno's Fire Affinity to where she can take hits from it, and they're generally good items at this point for composite attackers like Cirno anyway. Sure, I have Orin and Utusho who could probobly tank it all day with their inherant Fire Resistances, but this is how I beat it the first time I fought it in a normal game so I'm fairly confident it works.
Thanks to speedbuffs I was finding time to buff with Sanae as well as heal during the fight against Rumia.
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That's what I don't like about Marisa: she's entirely dependent on MYS attacks. MYS might just be the most commonly resisted element in the whole game, or at least it sometimes feels like it. Yuuka has more than just Master Spark going for her, thankfully.
Took down Suwako and Nitori. Reisen was probably MVP against both of them, thanks to one Grand Patriot's Elixir followed by 3x Discarder hitting the FIR weakness for tons of damage and debuffs. Patchouli also a great job here, and both of them were able to receive multiple Three Treasures: Orb for some fantastic damage output. Once their role was done, Flandre and Ran managed to clean up nicely.
Keine had no problem tanking either of them. Thanks to a Holy Mist Robe (dropped from Suwako) and a Love Machine 3322, Keine was taking only ~1k damage from Megawatt Linear Gun, and she has about 1.9k HP anyway. No other attack came close to killing her. The biggest problem against Nitori was just her tendency to snipe other characters with Air Torpedo. Her other spells weren't too bad, thanks to some affinity items on Minoriko to ensure that she won't have to worry about healing herself too often even as she sits indefinitely in the 3rd slot.
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Sorry, it's just that I caven't been able to get the engish patch to the special disk version, could someone help me?
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I like how I need to fully explore 9F before beating Suwako and Nitori and my Meiling was taking 2k~ damage from Nitori's Gun and Paral just steamrolls both.
Right now I just reach the 10/11/12F puzzle, I've been periodically changing my party as I get new characters, like I changed Marisa first for Alice and then changed Alice for Ran once I got her, though the core group of Meiling;Remilia/Youmu/Patchy/Reimu/Iku stays as it is.
I came here mainly asking help for a friend who unfortunately speaks no english: Everytime he chooses new game, the simply closes, his should be working considering we're using the same files... What gives?
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Beat Reisen and got her drop, and didn't even take a single point of damage that entire fight (well, minus Starbow Break, of course). I let Reisen summon her little minions, killed them all immediately with Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, then just kept her PAR-locked with Suwako while Flandre and Patchouli pounded on her. Poor thing never got to do anything except use Summon Underlings twice that whole entire fight.
It's okay, Reisen. You're still high tier in my eyes. Incidentally, you're also now my save file portrait. Good thing I picked that cute portrait of hers that I'm rather fond of (same one I used for Team Unappreciated).
Also beat Sanae's Foe, but that was a very uneventful battle. Let's just say Suwako's PAR proc'd 4 times during the fight, which meant Sanae's Foe only ever got 2 turns before dying.
(By the way, does anyone else besides me choose to intentionally not pick up that Frozen Frog near the 7th to 8th floor stairs? I leave that for last because it's the easiest frog to reach, in case I want to retry Suwako's fight. Plus that means no accidentally running into her on the 8th floor when I'm unprepared.)
I came here mainly asking help for a friend who unfortunately speaks no english: Everytime he chooses new game, the simply closes, his should be working considering we're using the same files... What gives?
Are the file paths okay? I think there was an issue about that a while back regarding Japanese characters in the file path, or something of that nature.
Check here if you haven't yet:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Troubleshooting
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I normally do the 7F frog thing, I just forgot this playthrough and went with the frog straight down from the entrance of 8F.
Also, it was the fonts problem, he's playing it now, thanks.
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Hey Pesco: the save file you gave us doesn't seem to have enough BP for Chen to get her event on floor 11 for the Yuyuko boss fight.
Just fyi.
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200 BP wasn't enough? I'll fix it later today :ohdear:
Edit: Uploaded a fixed file with 250 BP on Chen.
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Don't know why that would be. 200 BP is correct according to the wiki.
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Ifrit was laughable. Kanako's CLD nuke hit something like 6.5k with no buffs or debuffs on Ifrit.
Ranged from 17 to 20 [Yuka and Kanako being 17, Cirno and Wriggle being 20], I take on Alice. First time I get some awful luck, with Cirno and Orin focused down and killed on the first turn [They both got paralysed and Orin got hit by a weakening, while Cirno got sheild bashed before the magical light KO'ed them], so I retry:
I inflict poision on all 4, and then go to my usual tactic, except with Cirno spamming slows and PAR. Healing Light went down quickly, shortly followed by the other two, because I had been switching Utusho in and out using Uncontained when she could, and she just nuked with Tomahawk.
Then Silence Cloud got Sanae Silenced. At which point I just went 'Forget this' and hit Alice with everything I had. Throwing Atlas, Master Spark, and Blazing Wheel. Seeker Dolls started stacking debuffs so I threw out a Beauty of Nature and it killed her anyway ._.
Finally had enough SP on Tenshi to use State of Enlightenment. Taking 0's from everything Alice throws at you is fun. Sanae's heals are healing ~700 ATM.
Also got the drop.
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Beat Tenshi and the Eientei trio.
Tenshi was a joke. Between my multitude of debuffs, the PAR from Suwako, and the fact that I have Shikieiki, she was no threat at all. She died before even using Focus for the first time.
Eientei was the toughest fight yet, but still not too bad. I started off with Sakuya and Keine swapping in and out of slot 1 and casting their buffs alongside Minoriko, with Ran and Patchouli spamming their multi-target spells to great effect thanks to said buffs. My secret weapon, though, was Yuyuko, whose enormous natural SPI affinity combined with a Zodiac Stone meant that she could easily tank Astronomical Entombing or Hourai Barrage. Suwako also came in from time to time to paralyze Reisen. Kaguya died first, and I was fully prepared to eat Astronomical Entombing, but thanks to Yuyuko using her spells to lower Eirin's active gauge I was able to just finish off Eirin right after with a Starbow Break for 25k damage. Reisen went down soon after, of course. Won without losing anyone, which was nice.
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(http://i45.tinypic.com/1p9yqt.png)
I finally did it.
I finally beat the Eientei Trio, second try too!
Plus, I got the sunglasses and the Star of Erendil, I'm aware that none of them is as good as the Getitup V (Which is kinda weird for it to not have dropped, seeing as these two seem to have an abysmally low drop rate while Getitup has like 50% :wat:) but hell, maybe the game is just trying to compliment me saying "Hey, you finally did it! Here's the rarest drops of the fight." :3
I still haven't left that exact screen, since I'm just so euphoric listening to the battle theme, but what I can say is:
Cirno got sniped at the very beginning, but she did an amazing job of both debuffing Kaguya and keeping all three in constant PAR-Lock until her SP ran out, but then they got to act and just sniped the poor girl.
Ran also didn't last too long in the fight, so she didn't do anything, really.
However, Iku is absurdly overpowered, both distributing amazing offensive buffs to all my high damage dealers and taking no more than 200 damage all fight long. Iku's HP never got below 1k, and as you can see, Meiling died, Meiling died while Iku didn't, holy shit.
Remilia didn't do much until the end of the fight, where I just used her to finish Reisen off, though the last hit was admittedly, Yuugi's, Reisen did get off a Mind Starmine, but it was barely a problem. I also think I invested a bit too much into Reimu's MND since she was taking very little damage (though more than Iku). Minoriko, unfortunately, got sniped about halfway through, ):
Aside from Iku's OPness though, the MVP of this fight was undoubtedly, Patchy, with Nitori sitting closely in third place, Royal Flare deals way too much damage when buffed. And so does the gun, by the way. (The gun was dealing almost 40k damage at full buffs!)
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm go bask in my victory for a little while longer.
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However, Iku is absurdly overpowered, both distributing amazing offensive buffs to all my high damage dealers and taking no more than 200 damage all fight long. Iku's HP never got below 1k, and as you can see, Meiling died, Meiling died while Iku didn't, holy shit.
Would you believe that for a whole year, the wiki article used to say that Iku's survivability was "nothing special"? Yeah...we've really come a long way in our knowledge of the game.
Meanwhile, I've been messing around on floor 13 and am reminded of just how much of a difficulty spike this floor's trash is. Spiral Divers do insane damage with Slash Dive and can outrun anyone on my team with ease; Rabbit Snipers and Rail Insects are quite speedy as well, plus the former has a nasty habit of literally Sniping your 4th slot. Even those Verdant Dryads are fast enough to outspeed Patchy normally, thus making it hard to just sweep them with Royal Flare.
After some deliberation, I was able to set up my party to survive and beat the new threats on this floor. Keine goes in slot 1, packed with tons of defensive gear for the sole purpose of tanking Spiral Divers. Even then, it still took her a few more levels to be able to survive double Slash Dive regularly. Slots 2 and 3 are for Ran and Reisen, each with a Getitup V, some more SPD gear, and some extra SKPs to get their SPD to 152 so that they can outpace both the Rabbit Snipers and Rail Insects. Together, they can easily sweep them reliably. Finally, Patchouli sat in the 4th slot with all the best SPD boosting gear I had on hand just so she could hit 128 SPD for taking out Verdant Dryads. Together, this group of four was able to handle everything the floor could throw at them (unless I got really unlucky with those Spiral Divers).
While exploring floor 13 with this team, I was able to appreciate for the first time just how well-designed this floor is. Don't get me wrong; it's still a nightmare of a floor compared to everything else in the game thus far, but I think that was the point of it. The game developers wanted this floor to be a huge jump in difficulty, following the climactic Eientei battle and all. They wanted the floor itself to be the menace, so I think it was intentional that they didn't put a boss fight here. That puts all the focus onto the really difficult enemies, and the preparation that you have to use to overcome them without losing too many characters to Slash Dive or Snipe. But as hard as they made it, the developers also showed quite a bit of mercy. The enemies are very tough, true, but the layout of the floor is such that you don't lose much if you recall back to Gensokyo often. Each trek to explore one corner of the floor is fairly short, and so you only have to go a few battles before recalling without missing out on much. This turns the difficult fights into a totally surmountable challenge rather than a hair-pullingly frustrating ordeal. I mean, can you imagine what floor 13 would have been like if you had to make enormously long treks without any breaks in between, like with the multi-switch puzzle on floor 12? That could have dissuaded more players from finishing the game than any of the main game bosses, I bet.
As far as game design goes, I can admire the effort, which I assume is intentional. It eases the players into the next level of tough floor mobs, yet doesn't overwhelm them with too much at a time. So yes, it's still a difficulty spike, but it's a deliberate one that serves a purpose.
In fact, it's rather Etrian Odyssey-ish. And that's a good thing in my eyes.
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I got the sunglasses and the Star of Erendil, I'm aware that none of them is as good as the Getitup V
Not necessarily. +8 in all resistances can be great and is often worth far more than just +10% in all stats, especially since most characters only really benefit from 3 or so stats.
If you equip Remilia with a Star of Elendil, a para resistance ring and a poison resistance ring for example, she will have 34+ in both PSN and PAR resistance and can use her selfbuff without ever being in danger of poisoning or paralyzing herself.
Only +20% on everything from all 3 items is pretty low though, so if no one else really needs it it's probably better to just give her the ribbon you'll soon find on 13F instead.
Since you're using Iku the Star of Elendil is generally quite useful, if you can bring a character from something like 24 to 32 PAR with it that character will be far less likely to be paralyzed by thundercloud stickleback.
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Personally I just gave her a Para/Poison resist ring and a Phial of Galadrial before coming to floor 13, so the Star wasn't really necessary. Especially now that I have the ribbon Remilia doesn't really need nor the phial nor the star anyway, though something tells me I'm better off giving the ribbon to Patchy and sticking the star to remilia instead.
Regardless, Floor 13 is a major pain in the ass to deal with, I actually tried to hack the value i nthe teleporter just so that I don't have to keep changing the crystals all the damn time, didn't work.
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Each switch on 13F is set to hex 1 or 0 depending if it's on or off. Once you find on switch, the rest are right after it in sequence. All it does is save you running between them setting them on or off.
The coloured switches on 10-12F are the same.
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I found that any item that increased ailment resistence was far more useful in the long run, since the boosts from other items start giving you a smaller and smaller percentage of the stat's unboosted value, and I found myself wanting everyone to be pretty much immune to everything.
Now I've finally got around to starting the game, after taking forever to choose the charagraphs I want. As before, I'm kinda dissapointed with some of them (I wish I had more good pervy ones). I'm also going with the other bgm this time. So far I think it's better than the newer version bgm.
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Rumia almost wiped my team because I walked in a little overconfident. Finished with all my meatshields alive only. My damage dealers were all caught out of position with Demarcation.
I was slightly overlevelled for Alice. Healing Light went down to poison first. Then I kept Alice and Shielding Light PAR-locked while Magical Light got heavily debuffed. Stall it out and let the poison put them all low enough for me to finish with a party-wide attack. Alice somehow survived and took out a few of my back rows with Little Legion though. Again only my meatshields lasted till the end. Didn't get the drop right away so I suffered a few more retries to get it.
I didn't overlevel for Yuugi but I still explored half of 6F and all of 5F before taking her on. This time I went straight for debuffing her attack with Alice and Mokou while Rumia did the damage. My Yuugi threw on the occasional Shackles for the procs. Also didn't get the drop on the first run but Yuugi is an easy enough fight to redo until I got it.
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Dammit, what the hell is up with the mobs at 14F!?
It's like, "Oh, you're finally here? Let's start you off with someone who can kill your team in one shot!" Damn.
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I can't handle both the Bronze Golems and the Knowledge enemies of floor 14F, the swordfishes and rabbits of 13F still snipe my back row characters, and 15F rapes me to no end, Reisen also fails to kill the Obsidian Sorceress, which are no less common than the absurd-resist enemies of 15F or the Bronze Golems of 14F. And Mokou rapes me, I haven't tried either the Triomegon (or w/e) nor Yuyuko.
So... Help? :ohdear:
(Party composition is currently: Meiling, Reisen, Ran, Patchy, Nitori, Remilia, Reimu, Suika, Iku, Suwako, Minoriko and Aya, though I'm willing to change.)
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Mokou has a very easy strategy for her-Weld Tenshi into your first slot and keep Mokou speed debuffed. Make sure your active party is debuff-immune. She'll spam Tsuki no Iwasaka's curse, which Tenshi will likely take 0 from. Meiling should be in slot 2 with boosted FIR affinity, Ran can max buff everyone, and Marisa should Master Spark the Fujiyama Volcano phase.
You're at the point in the game where I started finding Minoriko and Aya less useful-I'd suggest switching them out for someone else for exploration at the very least.
Triomagen...you really have to get lucky with its every third turn-either it heals 70k, or debuffs 1 party member.
Yuyuko isn't hard if you have SPI and DTH resist items.
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I also find Suika to be kind of lackluster. The real problem there seems to be a lack a fast characters though. I'd like to say break out Cirno, make her as fast as possible, then paralyze stuff, though I don't recall how effective that is on those floors. Get someone fast at least.
Also, I think you may as well put Remilia in the first slot for the random battles, seeing as she actually has some speed and damage potential. Meiling's durability shouldn't really be needed.
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On floor 14, you really have to just go all-out with your heavy nukes like Megawatt Linear Gun to deal with the golems and stuff. The floor isn't really THAT big, at least compared to what it looks like, because the paths are wide and straightforward rather than windy and narrow like most other floors. That means you can afford to recall often and still get things done.
Take out Dark Forge first, it's definitely the easiest boss you have access to right now. It's a pretty simple, more-damage boss.
Triomagen is a little tougher, but is thankfully very predictable. Since it'll always use the same attack pattern despite its speed, you can take advantage of the lull in between its abilities to switch in glass cannon nukers like Nitori. For example, it's very rare for Triomagen to hit anyone in the back slots aside from its multi-target elemental spells, which it will only use every 3 turns. So if you see, say, Flame Wind, then you're clear to switch anyone in to the back slots for an attack without too much risk. Try to keep your 1st slot buffed defensively or give them lots of debuff resistances, because that single-target debuff spell the boss uses is very strong.
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How about Yuyuko? DTH resist is pretty much all I need?
Grinding is still pretty much my priority, still can't kill the mobs at 13F without some form of damage.
(Party is: Meiling, Komachi, Reimu, Patchouli, Sanae, Reisen, Ran, Nitori, Suika, Tenshi, Marisa, Yuugi.)
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DTH and SPI resistance. Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana is strong enough to OHKO a lot of characters even without the instant death effect. Aside from that, she favors targeting MND, so take that into account when you choose your front line. Tellina Shell Necklaces and Zodiac Stones work wonders in this fight.
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Okay, so how do I decrease the damage of Mokou's Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse?
I have DEF/MND buffs but it still hits me for 3k damage.
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It's a WND attack, so WND affinity.
Additionally if you use Reisen for the debuffing you debuff her attacking stats resulting in less damage.
Tenshi should be taking 0, 2nd slot will likely be taking close to 0, 3rd and 4th slots maybe a little more (I think it's a composite attack). Just make sure everyone out has defensive buffs (Ran is good for this) and at least 1 good defensive stat.
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Oh yeah, forgot about this. Is Fujiyama Volcano a single hit or all hit?
Need to prepare myself for that.
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Oh yeah, forgot about this. Is Fujiyama Volcano a single hit or all hit?
Need to prepare myself for that.
Target all-it wiped me out the first time I saw because I didn't know it was target all.
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Another thing you should know about the Mokou battle: Nearly all her spells count as physical damage. Yes, really. I know once you get her as a character everything she's got is MAG-based and hits MND, but for some odd reason, every attack she has is physical for her boss form, with the exceptions of Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse (composite) and Flame Wind (MAG). I have no idea why the game is like this, but that's how it is.
This includes Fujiyama Volcano. Characters with high HP, DEF, and FIR resistance, such as Yuugi, stand a pretty good shot of surviving it if you prepare for it.
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Another thing you should know about the Mokou battle: Nearly all her spells count as physical damage. Yes, really. I know once you get her as a character everything she's got is MAG-based and hits MND, but for some odd reason, every attack she has is physical for her boss form, with the exceptions of Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse (composite) and Flame Wind (MAG). I have no idea why the game is like this, but that's how it is.
Well, if you're keeping her speed debuffed then aside from the first attack and Fujiyama Volcano/Resurrection, all you'll see is the Curse attack.
When I did this fight that's what I did, and I counted HP too to time Resurrection, and didn't have to survive any Fujiyama Volcanoes at all.
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still can't kill the mobs at 13F without some form of damage.
At the point where you can beat all of the 13F random encounters without taking damage you're already way overleveled, those swordfish mobs have 180+ speed iirc. The game simly increased the challenge random encounters present at this point and you'll have to live with often taking damage in random encounters from now on.
I never had much trouble with floor 14 though. Only the golems are really are really noteworthy because of their massive hp and strong attack, but 1 golem in a group of other enemies shouldn't be too much trouble and I usually just escaped from battles with multiple golems.
Floor 15 has some annoying enemies too, like those Tengu, but 16F is quite grind-friendly again. Upon arriving at 16F you'll probably hate the gold sorceresses and those dryads that outspeed most characters and inflict a ridiculously strong poison on everyone, but as soon as you start to outspeed them they lose most of their horror.
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I don't exactly like the speed debuff approach to the Mokou fight. Curse hits hard and debuffs ATK/MAG, the fight drags on forever. I guess it's okay if you stack wind affinity on everyone, but still.
I don't remember what I did for the fight exactly, I remember using Chen/Patchouli/Nitori to DPS, Tenshi to tank, Suwako (and Reimu if need be) for PAR. Mokou typically got three attacks off before Resurrection if I'm remembering right, then I'd swap in Iku-buffed Nitori and Patchouli to drop her before Volcano.
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It's certainly not necessary to debuff Mokou's SPD. I rarely do it myself, since I don't really find her other attacks to be that tough to manage anyway. In fact, Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse is probably one of her more dangerous (or at least annoying) attacks if you don't properly prepare for it. The fight usually just comes down to whether or not you are prepared for Fujiyama Volcano.
One could argue that it's tough to do both at once; most of the items you want to withstand Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse don't really help you against Fujiyama Volcano, but if you gear up for Fujiyama Volcano, you will naturally resist her other attacks.
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Can I impose on someone to help me understand how cheat engine works with this game. Specifically, I'd like to know how to add equipment to my inventory. I'm at the part of the game where you need 6 stars to explore the special disc content further, and I have a few items missing from the first 100 that could only be obtained from random battles. I don't feel like going back and gaining negligible exp and skill points for only a chance at the items I need.
I'd appreciate any help people can provide greatly.
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Set the search range to All. Note how many of an item you have. Have CE search for that number. Equip one and search for the new value. Unequip and refine the search again until you're left with only one address. Add 4 to that address if your initial item was one before the stuff you're missing (e.g. searching with Book of Knowledge to find the address for Ball Lightning).
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Set the search range to All. Note how many of an item you have. Have CE search for that number. Equip one and search for the new value. Unequip and refine the search again until you're left with only one address. Add 4 to that address if your initial item was one before the stuff you're missing (e.g. searching with Book of Knowledge to find the address for Ball Lightning).
I appreciate the help. That was surprisingly easy, though it took several steps to find what I wanted.
Thank you.
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Finally won against Mokou!
Bringing Iku in this battle was one thing I never regretted, with her bringing Patchouli's MAG to the max.
Also, Yuugi's PAR helped a little with preparing for Fujiyama Volcano.
And of course, Nitori gets the kill with fully buffed Megawatt Linear Gun.
Thanks for the tips, guys!
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So, I've known about and played this game for quite a while but I've never gotten beyond 18f because I have a bad habit of becoming unhappy with a team (On my first play I played it normally but since then I like to use NG+ and stick to a team of twelve) and restarting. However, I think this time I've nearly pinned down everything I want, except I'm worrying about one thing, so I'd like to ask. In people's opinions, is it necessary to have another healer besides Reimu?
The fact that I'm going to use Komachi is the only real reason I'm considering it as neither Minoriko or Sanae would be of much use to my team outside of the heal. I realise that having another healer would help greatly main game as Reimu can't spam her heal but I don't want a character that never sees use once I get to the plus disk floors. My team is heavily orientated towards late-game strength, anyway, so...?
The team so far, by the way, is:
Meiling (Primary tank, bonuses in DEF)
Youmu (Nuke, bonuses in ATK)
Komachi (Primary tank main game, later on I'm planning to use her as a fourth slot pivot to get my nukes in safely, her bonuses will switch between HP and ATK)
Nitori (Nuke, bonuses in ATK)
Ran (Offensive buffer, bonuses in MND)
Yukari (Secondary tank and defensive buffer, bonuses in DEF)
Kaguya (Nuke, bonuses in MAG)
Renko (Debuffer, bonuses in MND)
Reimu (Healer and defensive buffer, bonuses in MND)
Marisa (Nuke, bonuses in MAG)
And then two slots I don't know what to do with. Maybe Mystia and healer if I need one, if not I don't know.
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It's not necessary to have another healer. If you have Meiling, you don't really need someone to keep healing Komachi, since Meiling can do the heavy tanking, and can of course heal herself.
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Thanks, that's good to know.
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Went on a boss binge tonight and took down Dark Forge, Triomagen, Mokou, Yuyuko, and Orin.
First two were pretty easy, since they're just minor bosses. Triomagen is one of the most predictable bosses in the game, and Dark Forge is pretty tame unless it spams Cry of Anguish (which it did against me...but oh well).
Mokou I found to be a lot easier simply by not debuffing her SPD, since all of her other attacks feel weaker than Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse anyway. I bumped up Keine's and Sakuya's FIR resistance by a ton, then just had them sit in to tank Fujiwara Volcano when it came up. The two survived easily and switched in Suwako and Youmu to finish off Mokou with their nukes.
I felt really prepared going into the Yuyuko battle, with most of my team packing complete immunity to instant death and SPI affinity of over 200. Sure enough, Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana did little to me, but this fight still went on a lot longer than I anticipated simply because Yuyuko was casting SP Drain on my main damage dealers, like Patchouli. She also kept poisoning my party, which I wasn't really as prepared for; I think I took more damage from poison than from all her other spells combined during the fight. Still, I managed to grind her out despite most of my team being poisoned or SP drained.
Orin was an interesting one. I finished off her knights with no issues at all thanks to hitting their weaknesses with Fox-Tanuki Laser, Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, Royal Flare, and Laveatein. Orin herself did 0 damage with Cat's Walk on Keine after a buff from Minoriko, so the fight started off well. Thankfully, her boss version of Needle Hill is row-based, so Patchouli sat comfortably in the 4th slot and did heavy damage every turn with a buffed Silent Selene. Once she got low Orin started wrecking my team with Blazing Wheel, and then she silenced Minoriko with Silent Cloud, so I had to switch to all-in damage mode. Choosing to forgo switching in someone to the empty slot, I had Keine use her last turn casting Three Treasures: Sword to boost both Flandre and Shikieiki, and Starbow Break and Last Judgment combined to deal well over 100k damage to finish off Orin right there.
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Just beat St.Elmo's Fire on Floor 5.
The thing was a pain with it's elemental resistances, silenceing Sanae and Aya Turn 1, and spamming Destroy Magic three times in a row at one point...
Tenshi as being a baws and taking 0's. I only lost Cirno to a wind of Souls.
Still won, but not re-fighting for the drop.
For the lulz, I went and fought Yuugi, simply because I wanted to see how well Tenshi took her hits.
She got one hitted before I could even move, although to be fair, if she had ime to get into State of Enlightenment, she would have survived, since it only overkilled her by about 200
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Floor 15 enemies feel really easy to me. Definitely far easier than 13F and 14F had. The only enemies that stood a chance at damaging me were the tengus, but truth is, they aren't really THAT fast. Certainly nowhere near the likes of stuff like Spiral Divers. Ran and Reisen were both able to outspeed them with proper equipment and SKP shortly after embarking on 15F, so after that I had no issues at all with the floor.
Hill Gigas went down easily enough, I usually just run into him like a random encounter and still come out on top. Thousand-hand Kannon is strong enough to OHKO most characters, but it's only single target and he doesn't have enough HP to use it too many times before he just succumbs to everyone else's damage.
Great Stamp is a cakewalk with my team. Stack affinity items on Keine and Minoriko to survive Great Earthquake, keep all its stats perpetually at -50% with Reisen, then just laugh as I get 3-4 turns in between each Great Earthquake (which can't even 2-shot Keine). Killed him like 5 times just for the drop, since it was easy enough to farm. Also, Flandre does absurd DPS when she can stay in safely and spam Starbow Break with some ATK buffs. It's only a little weaker than Megawatt Linear Gun was when I did this fight with Nitori, but I don't even have to switch out afterwards.
16F mobs are more of a pain. Those stupid mandragoras are so fast for plant enemies. Sure, Ran and Reisen can now outspeed them, but they're still pretty tanky and annoying.
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Just beat triomagen.
I really don't know how you can call him easy :ohdear:
I mean, sure, it's predictable, but the fact that he kept sniping Iku with Slash (My Iku can, thankfully, take a shield bash) my healers, and patchy, made me get 6~7 game overs before winning.
Also Suika deals way too much damage for her own good, fully buffed Nitori deals about 35k~, suika was dealing all the way up to 50k, I mean, what?
Help on floor 16, it stinks :colonveeplusalpha:
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Also Suika deals way too much damage for her own good, fully buffed Nitori deals about 35k~, suika was dealing all the way up to 50k, I mean, what?
Of course. Triomagen is weak to WND, and Suika's big nuke happens to be that element.
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OMG, I finally beat Yuyuko.
Patchouli and Nitori got DTH'ed halfway into the battle, without even dealing significant damage.
Cirno, Alice and Komachi on debuffs.
Reimu, Ran and Sanae worked on buffs.
Alice was my main damager on this battle for some reason, with Marisa on back-up.
I'm still shocked from finally beating her. After suffering so many DTH's from her at the start of the battle on my previous attempts..
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Alice was my main damager on this battle for some reason,
Well, Yuyuko is weak to fire, as I recall.
Always helps to know an enemy's elemental weaknesses!
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Ahh, I wasn't even expecting to win this one after my key members (Tenshi, Nitori and Patchouli) got killed.. :V
Also, Yuyuko just stopped being affected by debuffs after being with so much Icicle Fall and Return Inanimateness. Wonder why?
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Well, Yuyuko is weak to fire, as I recall.
Always helps to know an enemy's elemental weaknesses!
Not only that, but she's got low DEF and high MND, so Return Inanimateness (which targets DEF) actually works better than stuff like Royal Flare here.
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good to see this topic didnt died (yay!), now on to the topic
-Gave up on machosuke, used cheat engine, got to maribel han with meiling lv 400 or so, maribel uses scourge when she is almost dead.me:FUUUUUUUUUUU.....
-now starting a NG+ with this team
Meiling
Tenshi
Mokou
Utsuho
Flandre
Yukari
Aya
Suika
Renko (sprite replace with koakuma,yay?)
Kaguya
Yuuka
Youmu
Chen
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Been a long time since I've played this game, thinking about starting a new game (old file left off at 22F I think). I'm thinking I'll run a specific team this time though, since that's what everyone else seems to be doing now. :V
I'm thinking I'll probably use:
Iku
Yuka
Yuyuko
Mystia
Eirin (never really used her at all in my first run)
Remilia
Might use Meiling as my tank instead of Tenshi this time, but I like Tenshi more as a character and she worked great last time. Then again, Meiling'd synergize better with Eirin...
Which leaves five slots remaining. Five slots that I'm clueless on. :derp: Obviously need at least one healer, don't know who else I'd want at all.
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Just beat Orin. I thought she would be harder, from the Knights before her battle. But I kinda overestimated her, so I didn't take it too seriously halfway..
Big mistake for me. She suddenly threw out Blazing Wheel, Meiling and Patchouli fell to it. After that, I managed to give myself time because of Yuugi's Irremovable Shackles, PAR and PSN'ing Orin.
Only Tenshi and Alice and was left with their HP's below 500. Alice was my last shot at winning. I couldn't rely on Return Inanimateness due to Rin's high FIR resist.
So I go, "Eh, what the hell. I'm gonna lose anyway. So why not fire Little Legion?" and use Little Legion I did.
But then, Orin died. :V
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Defeated Flandre. This was actually the hardest boss battle by far for me thus far, as it finally revealed the difference in tankiness between Keine and Meiling/Tenshi. While Keine had no problem tanking every boss up to this point (even when a little underleveled), she at last met her match against Flandre's enormous amount of raw damage. Starbow Break and Slash Dive are non-elemental, so Keine's fantastic affinities won't save her, and she lacks Meiling's great HP and heals or Tenshi's ability to just take 0 damage from everything, so I just couldn't really keep up with Flandre's damage output. In the end, I ended up winning by simply paralyzing Flandre once with Suwako, then unloading like 300k damage before it wore off (Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana by itself was doing over 100k after buffs).
Now on Yukari. I actually have a pretty easy time with her, thanks to Reisen for massive debuffs and Suwako + Youmu to hit her weakness hard. In fact, I can easily do enough damage to force her out of transitioning into her latter 2 forms. But my question is: can Yukari still drop her drop if I kill her while she's stuck on her first form? I forgot.
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No drop if you kill her in the non-final forms.
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In that case hit her with 600k damage, let her use Djinn Storm twice then NTR nuke her before self-buff.
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Uh...I accidentally did too much damage after Yukari's 1st Djinn Storm, forcing her to use Djinn Storm again in a row without transitioning into her 2nd form. I decided, hey, whatever, I'll just finish her off, so I killed her while she was still stuck on her 1st form.
And then I got her drop.
Huh. I thought she had to use Barrier Release to transition into her other forms?
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So, what tips can you guys give about fighting Flandre and Yukari?
I want to be ready before I fight them. Lest another Orin incident happens to me..
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Flandre does no thing but raw damage, so status resistances are useless here. You'll want good FIR and MYS resistance, and as many defensive buffs as you can muster. She can be paralyzed or debuffed, but don't necessarily count on it (although PAR makes her much easier). She always uses Forbidden Fruit at about half health and Laveatein when low on health. Both are composite, so a buffed Tenshi or Meiling can easily survive them, but you have to expect most characters to flat-out die to them without massive resistances. The fight is really more of a damage race than anything; don't expect to just stall and outlast her unless you've got a good Tenshi.
Yukari's biggest weakness is her extreme vulnerability to debuffs. All debuffs except for ATK are useful here, but especially so for SPD, since she's already not that fast to begin with. Debuffing her SPD is key to making her fail to transition into her latter 2 forms, lowering her high DEF and MND lets you actually put up decent numbers, and hitting her MAG makes a huge difference in her damage output. Her spells are primarily MAG based, and most of them are row-targetting, I believe. In order of threat level, the affinities you'll want are SPI, MYS, WND, and NTR. The best strategy, if you can pull it off, is to bring her down to just before she would cast Djinn Storm for the first time, wait for her to use a high-delay move (hopefully while SPD-debuffed), then unload as much damage as you can before she casts Djinn Storm. If lucky, you'll only have to do a bit more damage for her to not do much at all in her 2nd form, if not outright skip it.
Take note that her 3rd form is pretty much one of those "I buff myself and kill your whole team" kind of fights, just like with Rinnosuke or Maribel, so either debuff her immediately or bring her low enough from previous forms to make this one a short fight (or force her to skip it altogether, like described previously).
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don't expect to just stall and outlast her unless you've got a good Tenshi.
My Flandre clear came down to Tenshi, Sanae, and Kaguya being the only three left alive; managed to win by switching Kaguya in and out for Hourai Barrages between Lavaeteins V:
iirc CLD and SPI damage works best on Flandre and NTR reams Yukari. NTR might be good against Flan too? Can't remember.
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Flandre isn't really weak to NTR (100 affinity), but it's still pretty effective given her relatively low DEF and MND for a boss (about half that of the Great Stamp). You just really need to avoid FIR and MYS, since she takes only 20% damage from those elements.
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I got a dilenma :V i cant decide between komachi or yukari, anyone got a good comparison between these two?
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They do completely unrelated things.
Komachi is mostly a physical DPS character, and is in fact the only strong SPI-elemental physical attacker in the game. Yes, her HP is very high, but she's not a good tank because she requires a ton of babysitting from a healer to survive due to her terrible defenses (Minoriko is practically required for that job). Contrast with Meiling, Tenshi, or even tier 3 tanks like Keine, Sakuya, and Wriggle, who can go for a while without heals after some buffs. However, Komachi's ATK growth is also quite good, and Scythe that Chooses the Dead has a strong damage formula for its good delay. She's got a side use of debuffing DEF/MND/SPD with Narrow Confines of Avici, so she's got great utility as well, but her primary role should be to pump out lots of physical SPI damage.
Yukari is mainly a support character, as her most useful spells are her DEF/MND buff and Spiriting Away. Her PAR/SPD debuff spell isn't as strong as other options, so I usually just use it for random mobs. But her buffs are just as good as Reimu's (so very good, in other words), and Spiriting Away can be a game-changer. It takes work to make it good, and tends to be party-dependent, but when used to its best effect it can absolutely destroy many bosses.
The two work better in different party configurations. Komachi works best in teams that make good use of DPS-type characters with good delay who don't need to switch out, and uses SPD buffs a lot better than high-delay nukers. Yukari prefers to work with high-delay nukers, who allow her to maximize the effectiveness of Spiriting Away. Look at what your team has more of, and make your decision based on that.
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Being lazy, not progressing much, but beat Round 2 of St.Elmo's Fire.
It started with Destroy Magic, so I just responded by switching in my AoE Nukes and killing the Pressures with Blazing Wheel and Mountain of Faith. From there, it was holding out while it spammed Wind of Souls until my initial party had enough SP. After a CoVT Remillia was dealing 4k+ per Spear. After Miricle Fruit Orin's Cat's Walk was dealing over 1k, and I used a Guidance on her to speed her up to obscene levels. By the time I'd actually got my buffs on because of Destroy Magic, everything was smooth sailing.
Although the spam of Wind of Souls beforehand while I was stalling for SP killed Sukia and Cirno.
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Been a long time since I've played this game, thinking about starting a new game (old file left off at 22F I think). I'm thinking I'll run a specific team this time though, since that's what everyone else seems to be doing now. :V
I'm thinking I'll probably use:
Iku
Yuka
Yuyuko
Mystia
Eirin (never really used her at all in my first run)
Remilia
Might use Meiling as my tank instead of Tenshi this time, but I like Tenshi more as a character and she worked great last time. Then again, Meiling'd synergize better with Eirin...
Which leaves five slots remaining. Five slots that I'm clueless on. :derp: Obviously need at least one healer, don't know who else I'd want at all.
Still clueless as to who I want for the last five slots. Any suggestions?
EDIT: Okay I just noticed I have no PAR-inflicters outside of Mystia, that would need to be remedied for sure. Minoriko + two PAR-inflicters + at least one more nuker + idk, I suppose?
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Hmm... This game keeps dragging me back to it, and with 7 weeks of holiday (YESYESYES) I decided to random a team.
So... How's this?
33-Maribel
37-Yuuka
19-Suwako
24-Tenshi
23-Eirin
1-Reimu
7-Meiling
34-Renko
10-Youmu
32-Kourin
3-Remilia
I think it's good personally, but I need a pro's opinion :derp:
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Meiling, Minoriko/Reimu, Suwako, 2 of Suika/Youmu/Yuugi
That covers pretty much everything as far as I can tell.
self-buff, NTR, PAR+NTR, tank, healer, healer/buffer, tank, debuffer, nuke, super-buffer, tanky DPS...that's only 11.
Overall though since you have Reimu, Meiling and Remilia you should be able to get through the early game without too much SP issue.
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Looks a little tank heavy, imo. You have both main tanks and two of the tougher secondary tanks in the party, I don't think you need 33% of the group devoted to tanking. No offensive buffs either (unless you count Kourin).
Technically it should perform alright, though. I can't immediately think of anything where that party would struggle.
Meiling, Minoriko/Reimu, Suwako, 2 of Suika/Youmu/Yuugi
That covers pretty much everything as far as I can tell.
Well technically slot 7 was a debate between Meiling and Tenshi, so there'd still be a slot left :derp:
Could take all three between Suika/Youmu/Yuugi but I'm not terribly fond of the onis.
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Looks a little tank heavy, imo. You have both main tanks and two of the tougher secondary tanks in the party, I don't think you need 33% of the group devoted to tanking. No offensive buffs either (unless you count Kourin).
Technically it should perform alright, though. I can't immediately think of anything where that party would struggle.
Yays, I'm not fucked after all. I did see it a little tank heavy, and my main damage dealers are probably going to be Youmu and Yuuka, While Suwako can stun crap and Reimu and Eirin (to an extent) can heal and stuff.
Obvious who is going to be tank... And Maribel will be on standby until I need to rip the shit out of something.
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Personally, I'd drop Kourin in favor of Iku.
Common consensus and my own experience shows that Iku's generally better.
And the 12th should be an attacker or buffer. Either Flan or Yukari would suffice.
And I'd probably swap Eirin out for Minoriko or something, since you can only do so much with her.
And to be honest, you really need a speedy trash-killer, like Chen/Aya/Orin.
I think Youmu also falls under that, but her moves are so expensive that I wouldn't consider her for that, she's more a boss-killer type in my book.
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Mystia's PAR is more than enough as long as she's got the SP.
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Thanks for suggestions, but I'm going to stick with these guys for now and see how it turns out.
EDIT: Oops, I had missed a character, I ended up getting 9-Minoriko
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Aya has been rathering disappointing as a speedy trash sweeper, in my experience. Her damage output isn't that great without buffs, even if you go full-ATK with her, and a lot of fast enemies are resistant to WND anyway.
But you know who is an amazing speedy trash sweeper? MAG-build Ran. Totally carrying my current team through the hellish mobs of floors 13+.
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Aya has been rathering disappointing as a speedy trash sweeper, in my experience. Her damage output isn't that great without buffs, even if you go full-ATK with her, and a lot of fast enemies are resistant to WND anyway.
But you know who is an amazing speedy trash sweeper? MAG-build Ran. Totally carrying my current team through the hellish mobs of floors 13+.
Yeah, once I hit Floor 6 I've started to notice Aya's trashclearing die off, at least, in a solo sense. Aya + Cirno is enough to clear most things.
You know who hasn't stopped killing everything?
Sanae. Hardly anything lives her Guest Stars, albeit, prior damage is usually done because she's slow, but it still hits harder than Divine Grandson, Diamond Blizzard, or Earthlight Ray.
Which is weird, seeing as I'm mainly building defenses on Sanae.
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Sanae's attack will get less exciting later, even if she was in a MAG-build. Early on attacks scale differently.
Speaking of scaling, in Plus, Aya's random battle offensive picks up again since she'll be attacking so damn fast.
MAG-build Ran is simply lovely, though. She's still really durable, her multihits are fantastic for randoms, and her composite skill, after she's buffed, has high damage and a pretty low delay to boot.
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Personally, I generally prefer building characters to be more useful for boss battles, unless random encounters are all they're really good for. I just don't like using MAG Ran frankly, it feels like I'm limiting her potential to be an 2nd-slot buffer, which is what I find her most useful as.
I think my favorite trash sweeper is probably Orin. Her only real weakness is how fast Blazing Wheel drains her SP, but there's plenty of ways around that.
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Nah, Iku is the best second-slot buffer. Ran should sit in the 3rd slot, get buffed by Iku, and spam Soaring En no Ozuno for massive DPS.
As far as I'm concerned, that's my ideal role.
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I actually pair Aya with Chen, have Aya use that multi-target, and have Chen use Phoenix Spread Wings.
Stuff tends to die in short order afterwards. If not, Patchy's around for cleanup.
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I have finally begun my draft team runthrough...only to have to stop in a couple days for a camping trip :getdown:
Did some leveling, fought Chen at Reimu level 4. Did not use death, Youmu hit for 1000 with Slash of Eternity. Suika hit for 800 with Throwing Atlas. Only 2 casualties, Keine and Suika as both were acting as tanks.
Then I went around the back way and fought Meiling. If anything it was easier than Chen, Youmu and Suika both hit for 800 while Minoriko continued to exceed all expectations with consistent 300 damage hits.
So far I'm going full support Keine/Rinnosuke/Yukari/Alice (not entirely sure about Alice), pure nuke Youmu+Suika+Utsuho+ MAG Yuyuko+ MAG Minoriko with Reimu being an all-around character and Mystia and Chen being speedsters who kill things before they move.
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No offense, but full support Alice and magic Minoriko both sound like pretty bad ideas. Alice's damage would be pretty bad after scaling set in (Nor is her DEF -that- good), and Minoriko still fullheals with a MND build. (And no, minoriko's attacks are not even decent even in a MAG build. After awhile they start to just suck. Yeah, the single target almost completely ignoring MND gives it a little bit of utility in randoms, but it's still pretty weak)
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Then 1/3 MAG 2/3 MND for Minoriko then on level-ups.
Alice if probably one of the better characters I have to stick in the second slot-can she stay there comfortably with most level-ups going into MAG?
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Didn't really use Minoriko myself but I doubt you need to put any levelups in her MAG. Just buff her with Iku if the heals aren't big enough or something.
EDIT: Actually I don't know your team composition now that I think about it :derp: Lemme browse through the thread quick...
EDITEDIT: Yeah okay you do have MAG buffs available if it's absolutely necessary. Good to know.
EDITEDITEDIT: Was rereading old posts and noticed
I'd personally ban Eirin because nobody really wants to use her :V.
This has me wondering if I should reconsider her for my team. I was admittedly underwhelmed when I tried her in my previous run, but she was built for MND; I found MND Yuyuko to be pretty worthless but MAG Yuyuko to be the main damage in my team.
Granted I didn't ever get to try out different roles with her, but is she really that bad? :ohdear:
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What the heck is the level requirement for Flandre and the Great Stamp?
I walked into their battles since I thought I could take them. Then, I got my ass handed to me immediately.
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What the heck is the level requirement for Flandre and the Great Stamp?
I walked into their battles since I thought I could take them. Then, I got my ass handed to me immediately.
Wiki says 65-70 for Great Stamp, 75-80 for Flandre.
I think I was around 72 when I did the Flandre fight, but I just barely won that (as I said a page or two back, I was down to Tenshi switching Kaguya in and out for Hourai Barrages between Laveateinns, and Sanae for emergency healing if Tenshi's health started to dip :V)
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Welp, went and defeated Rinnosuke. My party levels ranged from 79 (Yuyuko) to 91 (Minoriko).
Rinnosuke was a challenge for this team, since I lacked both a top tier tank (like Meiling/Tenshi) and any form of multi-target healing (since Rinnosuke uses so many multi-target attacks). Keine was able to hold down the 1st slot reasonably well, though, with enough HP and defenses to survive any of Rinnosuke's attacks. Still, Minoriko had her hands full trying frantically to keep everyone healed. I had to take a lot of chances with leaving low HP characters like Flandre in, but somehow my gambits still paid off (most of the time). My top damage dealers were actually Reisen, Flandre, and Youmu. Ran got sniped early, Patchouli was silenced by Sealing Slash (despite having a Ribbon equipped), Maribel had SP issues (but otherwise was OK), and Suwako and Yuyuko both got off one extremely powerful attack against Rinnosuke's weaknesses before becoming incapacitated in one way or another. I didn't use Shikieiki until the very final form, when she worked with Youmu to eliminate Rinnosuke before his 2nd turn.
Flandre got very lucky and just stayed in for like 3 different forms, spamming Starbow Break for 60-90k damage depending on buffs, all the while narrowly avoiding death until a Wind of Souls wiped her out. Reisen buffed herself like crazy (she's transcended most of her SP issues by now) and was able to stay in safely against 3 or 4 forms before succumbing to Rinnosuke's second-to-last form. Youmu survived the whole ordeal and did quite a number to 4 different forms. Sakuya and Keine traded turns in slot 1 while passing out buffs, and both managed to survive the entire fight, as did Minoriko.
Now onwards to floor 19...the dreaded floor that takes like 3-4 hours to fully explore.
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Random thought; how horrible of an idea would it be to not have Reimu in the party?
Thinking about dropping her for Yukari, but then I'd have Sanae and Eirin(LOL) for healers.
Also probably just going to go with Tenshi over Meiling again, I like Tenshi a lot more as a character and she feels more self-sufficient to me.
Or maybe I'll work Keine in somehow...decisions decisions...
Whatever, I've got this.
Current lineup:
Tenshi
Iku
Reimu
Remilia
Mystia
Patchouli
Yuka
Yuyuko
Eirin
Sanae
Kanako or Youmu (DECISIONS)
Ran
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I would go with Youmu for your team. You've already got enough MAG damage dealers with Patchouli, Yuyuko, and Yuuka. Plus Youmu's nuke damage output is usually higher than Kanako's anyway, and can be elemental or non-elemental.
Not having Reimu isn't really that bad if you've got Tenshi, since that's one person you rarely have to heal anyway. I've played through the main game before with Tenshi as tank and Sanae as my only healer.
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As it is clear that 3peso isn't going to update the game again, I've started working on fixing the remaining issues. With mauve's help I was able to restore the spell graphics to Meiling's mountain breaker and Youmu's slash of eternity (which also fixed Alice's dolls' defensive buffs. I wasn't even aware they had a missing graphic).
I also have a good number of translation fixes that never got included with a previous release, mostly missing translations (a few bits of dialogue, Shikieiki V2's name, The World, ...). I'm hoping that everything has been caught by now, but I don't have any way to validate this automatically. So this is my first question:
Is anyone interested in beta testing a new version of the English patch to look for any missing/broken/awkward translations throughout the entire game? I've noticed that a lot of people in this thread seem to be doing a new playthrough; it'd be fine to beta test using that playthrough, although someone would still need to check the earlier floors. I'd also recommend saving before fighting Okuu or Shikieiki (see below).
In addition to the image and translation fixes, I've also been trying to add the sound effects to Okuu, Yuuka, and Shikieiki's attacks (Giga Flare, Uncontained Nuclear Reaction, Hell's Tokamak, Flower Shot, Gensokyo's Reflowering, Beauty of Nature, Last Judgment, and Bar of the Ten Kings do not have any sound effects when used by the boss/v2 but do when used by the player). The problem is that the code for playing these sounds is completely gone, and I haven't had any success in trying to add it back in from the player version. I was able to use a cheap hack to get the sound to work for Giga Flare, Hell's Tokamak, and Bar of the Ten Kings by using the player display function rather than the enemy, but this causes unfortunate side effects when applied to the other spells. So my second question: Anyone here reasonably skilled with assembly/runtime debugging and think they can find a way to re-add the missing sound effects? I'm completely at a loss at this point.
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You can certainly get by without Reimu, but if you aren't trying to challenge yourself, don't do it. Even if you can get by fine, it's certainly not going to make bosses any easier on you.
I'm not sure how well Tenshi works in plus, but the issue is that a single attack that can overwhelm her defenses will just kill her. And there's a lot more of those getting used around in Plus. Meiling is more universally reliable. I think people have used only Tenshi through Plus and been okay, though.
Granted I didn't ever get to try out different roles with her, but is she really that bad? :ohdear:
Astronomical Entombing is alright and gives her possible use as tanky damage dealer, but it'll work out a good bit worse then Yuyuko, who has the same Tanky-With-A-Super-Expensive-Nuke schtick, so it's better to just use Yuyuko if you want to do that. They're even both SPI element :V
All of Eirin's other moves will deal shitty damage even in randoms, in a MAG build.
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Is anyone interested in beta testing a new version of the English patch to look for any missing/broken/awkward translations throughout the entire game? I've noticed that a lot of people in this thread seem to be doing a new playthrough; it'd be fine to beta test using that playthrough, although someone would still need to check the earlier floors. I'd also recommend saving before fighting Okuu or Shikieiki (see below).
I've got a few saves with varying amounts of progress. Otherwise someone can just turn off encounters and speedrun the floors with a hacked team for the testing.
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I've got a few saves with varying amounts of progress. Otherwise someone can just turn off encounters and speedrun the floors with a hacked team for the testing.
Got one with boss Yuuka, Okuu, and Shiki unlocked but not beaten? That'd certainly be simpler for testing those three than trying my luck on 30F.
A speedrun would be useful, but it unfortunately won't catch everything, just events and boss dialogue. It'd naturally skip right over all the enemy names and attacks. It's possible but unlikely that something broke with the latest build, or that there's something else like The World that never got translated and was never noticed. A full playthrough would be preferable, especially since people are playing the game anyway.
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Is there anything different between the boss event versions and the 30F versions? I'd test them both just to be safe.
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Is there anything different between the boss event versions and the 30F versions? I'd test them both just to be safe.
Not according to the Database or what I'm seeing in the disassembly. The player version and enemy version of spells are all different (extremely noticable for some; e.g. Chen's Kimontonkou has 75% post-use and only buffs 50%, and Phoenix Spread Wings is FIR elemental), but the v1, v2, and v3 bosses all use the same spells, just with better stats.
It would certainly be best to test both, but that can wait until it actually works. If I need to fight Okuu to have her use Uncontained as soon as possible, it'd be easier to just go to the boss encounter than spam M + run away on 30F.
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I am unsure if there is a difference between event bosses and bosses from floor 30, there could be. Or there is a flag that is making some sort of different.
Floor 30 enemies are treated as non-bosses, so Yuyuko's gauge down skill will lower their ready gauge as if they are regular enemies.
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Crap, I made a mistake on my battle with Yukari. I actually let her use the IN Quadruple Barrier before I started buffing myself again.
Should I go on overdrive when nearing the third form shift?
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Completed the main game. My party ranged from lvl 108 (Yuyuko) to 125 (Minoriko). The final boss was not too terrible, although there was a large degree of luck involved since if she snipes just one key member (Minoriko or Suwako, mostly), then the fight would suddenly become way harder. Status resistances were a big factor, since PAR and SIL are pretty much the same as being killed in this fight.
My strategy was to paralyze the 1st summon, debuff the 2nd, then focus down the 3rd followed by the 2nd once all 3 are out. I left the 1st summon alive because it's vulnerable to PAR, so I had Suwako PAR-lock it while I did as much damage as I could to the main boss. I did manage to get her down to fairly low health before finishing off the remaining summon, and I still had my entire team alive at that point. However, despite having only a small amount of health left, the boss had to make things difficult by using Djinn Storm shortly after and forcing me to scramble to come up with the damage needed to finish her off. She also started wrecking my team with Overflowing Unnatural Power + Berserk and Chaotic Quadruple Barrier. Eventually, though, I managed to scrounge up that last bit of damage after waiting what felt like an eternity for people to recover their SP.
By the way, funny story: during my earlier failed attempt at the final boss, I was left with only Minoriko and Shikieiki alive at one point. Minoriko tanked the final boss's last form for ages just by buffing herself and healing herself while switching Shikieiki (who was at 1 HP from poison) in and out in between the boss's attacks. She did this long enough for Shikieiki to use Last Judgment three times, despite Djinn Storm being used twice as well. Still lost, though, but it was hilarious to see Minoriko eat over a dozen attacks from the buffed up boss and still remain standing.
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By the way, funny story: during my earlier failed attempt at the final boss, I was left with only Minoriko and Shikieiki alive at one point. Minoriko tanked the final boss's last form for ages just by buffing herself and healing herself while switching Shikieiki (who was at 1 HP from poison) in and out in between the boss's attacks. She did this long enough for Shikieiki to use Last Judgment three times, despite Djinn Storm being used twice as well. Still lost, though, but it was hilarious to see Minoriko eat over a dozen attacks from the buffed up boss and still remain standing.
This sounds so much like what happened to me when I was first trying to beat the final boss. Reimu and Ran were my only remaining party members. Ran continued to attack with Soaring En no Ozuno, focusing when necessary while Reimu continously healed, with just enough turns to recover her SP for another heal. This went on for quite a bit of time during 2 djinn storms literally back to back. I believe she also used Magic Drain a lot as well, to little effect. I can't remember what finally took them down, but it would have been awesome if that attempt succeeded. Your story sounds almost exactly the same as mine except with more damage output perhaps. I wonder if this is a common occurrence on this boss.
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Not according to the Database or what I'm seeing in the disassembly. The player version and enemy version of spells are all different (extremely noticable for some; e.g. Chen's Kimontonkou has 75% post-use and only buffs 50%, and Phoenix Spread Wings is FIR elemental), but the v1, v2, and v3 bosses all use the same spells, just with better stats.
It would certainly be best to test both, but that can wait until it actually works. If I need to fight Okuu to have her use Uncontained as soon as possible, it'd be easier to just go to the boss encounter than spam M + run away on 30F.
As far as I can tell, all the bosses have the same AI script, except with different HP values for triggers. Moves are also mostly same except Kaguya v2/v3, who replaces Hourai Barrage with some lame move that debuffs SPD and does nothing else.
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Hi everyone! I'm kind of new here (actually very new :<) but I wanted to get some help with team-building for Labryinth of Touhou.
I've read through a bunch of pages to find out what might work best, but a lot of the characters seemed to need a good team to support them.
So, I want to know your suggestions for my team.
Currently, I'm not very far in (just started 7F), but I still am trying to plan out the best team :<.
My team consists currently of:
Aya, Cirno, Rumia, Youmu
Minoriko, Marisa, Patchouli, Alice
Meiling, Remilia, Reimu, Iku
When I get them later, I think I'll swap out the top row for Kaguya, Suwako, Komachi, Yuugi
and possibly youmu/marisa for renko/flandre
but I was wondering on the balancing of the team. Do I need more physical characters? Is there something that my future team needs to cover?
Also, how much PAR resistance do I need to make sure that Iku's buff doesn't stun anyone?
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I think you have enough physical characters as is. Youmu can carry your physical needs by herself, Remilia does decent physical DPS if you build her ATK, and Alice is primarily a physical attacker (despite what she may appear to be) because her most powerful spell, Return Inanimate, targets DEF instead of MND. If you're going to add Suwako, Komachi, and Yuugi to your team, then your team will be heavily physical-based, since all 3 of them are excellent physical attackers. If anything, you'll be lacking MAG damage, although a MAG-based Kaguya does go a long way towards fixing that issue.
Your team isn't really lacking anything important. Once you swap in the characters you mentioned, you'll have a nuke-level spell covering every element except CLD (which, to be fair, only Kanako has). You're a bit light on strong debuffs until you get Renko, but you have incidental coverage between Alice, Cirno, and Komachi.
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Okay, thanks for the help.
I didn't actually realize Suwako was physical (and Alice) because I haven't gotten her yet, only read about her XD
Now I need to actually get all these characters :<
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I think 34 is what you need to be completely immune to ailments. The only exception is a few Death attacks in the plus disk. For those you need 50 or something.
And you do seem to be covered as far as physical damage goes. I'm tempted to mention Nitori as being a powerful option, but yeah.
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On paper, Suwako may look like a mixed attacker, but the reality is that both of her physical spells (Iron Ring and Croaking Frog) are far more powerful than her magical spells. Their drawback is that they're both single-target, but that's typically all you need against bosses anyway. So while she has equal ATK and MAG growth, you'll tend to get more mileage out of her if you focus just on ATK than if you were to try to divide up her level up bonuses evenly. Even if you focus on her MAG, other characters will be better at sweeping trash mobs than her, but if you focus on ATK you'll have yourself the most powerful NTR nuke in the game and one of the strongest PAR effects as well.
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Random thought I've been kicking around, has anyone tried ATK-built Tenshi as a secondary tank? Her ATK's not the best, but her damage formulas aren't half bad; looking at her stats and formulas on the wiki it looks like she'd at least be close to Maribel's output, while being a lot sturdier by comparison. NTR's also a lot less resisted than MYS too.
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I'd say no. Looking at the stats and formulas, Tenshi's damage output is significantly worse than Maribel's. She has worse lvl up rate, lower ATK growth (compared to Maribel's MAG), worse SPD, worse delays, and worse damage formulas. Maribel herself is decidedly mediocre without her self-buff, and Tenshi doesn't have that of course. I daresay you would have a better chance of making Sanae into a good attacker than Tenshi.
Besides, Tenshi already has amazing damage output, albeit in an indirect way, since her low SPD and ridiculous defenses easily enable her to keep another slot efficiently switched out. Think of her as sacrificing her own turn to double the rate of fire for your other characters to use their high-delay nukes with minimal penalty. With the proper strategy, any damage that Tenshi could possibly do with her spellcards would be vastly overshadowed by the extra damage she enables through judicious switching of characters.
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Parallaxel your gameplay theories are just too high tech for us. I'm too casual to play at your level.
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>Marisa has MYS .
>Utsuho has both MYS and FIR .
>Team only has Fire Rat's Robe for a FIR MAG spell .
Guys should I ditch Marisa for Utsuho ?
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For maingame, no. For postgame, maybe.
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Besides, Tenshi already has amazing damage output, albeit in an indirect way, since her low SPD and ridiculous defenses easily enable her to keep another slot efficiently switched out. Think of her as sacrificing her own turn to double the rate of fire for your other characters to use their high-delay nukes with minimal penalty. With the proper strategy, any damage that Tenshi could possibly do with her spellcards would be vastly overshadowed by the extra damage she enables through judicious switching of characters.
True enough. I already knew it wouldn't be the most efficient use of her, I just thought it might make for a viable/entertaining result :V
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>Marisa has MYS .
>Utsuho has both MYS and FIR .
>Team only has Fire Rat's Robe for a FIR MAG spell .
Guys should I ditch Marisa for Utsuho ?
Utsuho sux so no
She has nice attacks for random battles but nothing you'd ever want to use on a boss, and she isn't durable either, so there's just... no reason to use her unless you just REALLY want to use Utsuho. She's like... the only character in the game I'd say this about.
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You want a character who deals both MYS and FIR damage? Use Reisen.
The funny thing is that Reisen can easily outdamage Utsuho, to say nothing of her debuffs.
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Umm does anyone have the Sayori portrait pack?
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Second pack in the OP has Sayori art mixed into the packs.
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Excuse me...
I picked up this game a while back, and I've been having a lot of fun with it, but it occurs to me that I may have slightly shot myself in the foot. I'm on the 20th floor and so far have been swapping out characters just about every level. Everyone has TONS of SP thrown around and I don't really have a set team, just a cobbled together mess of whoever works for the floor. Something tells me I MAY not be doing this right... In addition, I've no real idea of whose skills work as what, and have been throwing SP and bonuses into whatever needs help at the time. No points in evasion, and I generally checked to see what attacks are magic and attack based, so I didn't blow any points there, but otherwise, I'm walking a painful tightrope with every battle, it seems. It just feels like nobody has enough defense or mind...
I don't think I have any real tanks, save Meiling, and most of my buffing comes from Reimu and Ran. I'm not sure what a good balance of characters would be, and the idea of a "secondary tank" occurred to me only recently... My main attackers are Yuugi, Suika and Nitori, but as for the rest of my team, I don't really have any set formation.
Am I doing this wrong, or is this just how hard it gets at the end? I kind of don't want to start over if I've gone and blown everything to hell, but at the same time, I'm only planning on sticking it out as long as it takes to get all the characters before using the new game + option.
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It's some of both-difficulty spikes around 13F, and the last few bosses (Yukari, Rinnosuke and Maribel( are also difficulty spikes in and of themselves. Additionally, the 20F encounters are sort of like minibosses.
Generally you want to focus on a group of characters (I focused on ~16 which I switched in and out), but spreading everything around just means you need to grind a bit more.
Utsuho sux so no
She has nice attacks for random battles but nothing you'd ever want to use on a boss, and she isn't durable either, so there's just... no reason to use her unless you just REALLY want to use Utsuho. She's like... the only character in the game I'd say this about.
shut up Okuu is awesome
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The only real concern I see is that you built everyone offensively; I did that my first playthrough and it definitely gave me a lot of trouble - particularly against Rinnosuke. There aren't any real issues with cycling between a lot of different characters, aside from maybe running short on skillpoints frequently; if you were getting the impression you were doing something wrong due to everyone here sticking with a single party, don't. We've all cleared the game at least once I'm sure, and doing one-party runs for added fun/challenge.
From what I gathered of the team composition you did mention I wouldn't exactly expect any problems though, unless it's dealing with MAG-centric opponents.
shut up Okuu is awesome
awesome at being useless
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awesome at being useless
Am I seriously the only one who likes using Okuu?
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Am I doing this wrong, or is this just how hard it gets at the end? I kind of don't want to start over if I've gone and blown everything to hell, but at the same time, I'm only planning on sticking it out as long as it takes to get all the characters before using the new game + option.
You've done nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of extra grinding. Skill Points are not a limited resource if you can tolerate beating up some floor trash.
All characters are usable in this game, but if you want to have more of a focus to your party, you can try to streamline your team by focusing on one of two major archetypes (I posted something like this several pages ago):
Burst archetype - The burst archetype revolves around using extremely powerful nukes that have the drawback of emptying your entire active gauge. The plan is to have someone slow but durable (like Meiling or Tenshi) spend all their turns rotating another slot to launch powerful nukes in quick succession. Each of your attackers should be faster than whoever's doing the switching for maximum effectiveness. This is why speed buffs are not useful for this strategy; you're only as fast as the person doing the switching, and you need them to be slower than everyone else. Doing this correctly lets you keep your squishiest attackers out of harm's way whenever a boss is about to attack, only to switch them in for a hit-and-run strike while the coast is clear. This strategy also works well with abilities that instantly fill an active gauge, since they take full advantage of the high-delay attacks you're using.
Here are some characters that work well with this strategy:
Enablers:
Iku
Reimu
Kaguya
Ran
Yukari
Rinnosuke
Damage dealers:
Youmu
Suwako
Yuugi
Kanako
Shikieiki
Mokou
Suika
Marisa
Maribel
Utsuho
DPS archetype - This strategy simply asks that you leave in your characters to attack quickly with low delay attacks. The lower delay allows them to act often and react as necessary, such as if they need to switch themselves or others out. While the overall damage output for this strategy may be lower than the previous, this is also a more flexible and adaptable strategy, with many characters that are interchangeable instead of having your team rely on specific linchpins. This is where speed buffs shine, as increased speed translates directly to more actions, which can be very powerful.
Some characters that work well with this strategy:
Enablers:
Iku (She's just too good at everything)
Aya
Sakuya
Minoriko
Sanae
Keine
Damage dealers:
Patchouli
Alice
Orin
Remilia
Flandre
Chen
Komachi
Yuyuko
Yuuka
Characters that I haven't listed (like Meiling, Mystia, Reisen, Cirno, etc.) are good in pretty much any strategy; these are just specific ones that I believe fit one role better than the other. Do note, though, that some characters on these lists can still work reasonably well in the other strategy. For example, most characters with buffs can do fine enabling either strategy, but they just happen to do a bit more for one than the other.
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Doesn't Yuka fit more under Burst than DPS? Aside from Flower Shot (which I recall being like a moderate-delay Flight of Itaden) all her attacks set delay to like 0~15%.
Unless I'm remembering wrong and/or undervaluing Flower Shot.
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Well, she can fit in both. Although I believe she does more damage with Flower Shot spam than with her other spells if you just leave her in due to its low delay and reasonable damage formula, so I figured she would fit in well enough with the rest of the DPSers. But you're right, she works well in either setup. I just listed her there because I wanted to even out the two lists, haha...
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Yuka's multitargets aren't all that strong. Flower Shot isn't particularly strong either, but it has low CD to make up for it.
edit:Oh right, Master Spark. Okay, Master Spark is strong. Not nearly as strong as Marisa's though :c Any of the star dedicated nukers would deal more damage, without losing their entire MP pool.
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Thank you very much! A few more questions before I proceed...
I see Iku come up a lot as a fantastic character, but I must not be using her correctly, as I cannot see the appeal. I can see that her debuffs are stellar, and Stickleback looks good, but I find trouble keeping her alive and even when she's out, I can't seem to have her do much. Perhaps I'm a bit too defensively minded and focus on buffs too much, but whenever her turn rolls around I go "Ahhh, fff, what can you do, ahh no idea SWITCH OUT" (This probably speaks more about me than it does about her, though.)
Also, I know that putting people with high defenses in the front is a sensible idea, and ones with high mind but squishy defenses in back is also fine, but I appear to have run into a problem where everyone is squishy and nobody has decent defense, save Tenshi and Meiling. My Reisen in particular suffers from squishiness, as she has non-notable Mind and a defense of 2K even now. A shame, because I've grown to love Discarder. I just can't keep everyone alive as much as I'd like, it seems, and I always end up with something like Meiling -> Ran -> Reimu -> Anybody
Also, here is my proposed party... Just checking to see if there are any glaring troubles, as I will probably be carrying these fellows into Plus Disc, if I can best Maribel with them.
Reimu
Meiling
Aya
Sanae
Minoriko
Ran
Suika
Nitori
Alice
Patchouli
Remilia
Komachi
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Party looks more than fine. Pretty similar to what I was running my first playthrough.
Iku's sole purpose is to megabuff your heavy damage characters with Thundercloud Stickleback. Don't even bother attacking with her. Stickleback is by far and away the best offensive buff in the game. She also has good affinities and HP and stellar MND, making her a sturdy character for slot 2 or 3.
As for the party you listed, Remilia and Komachi are both perfect slot 2 candidates. Ran, Suika, and *maybe* Alice or Reimu could probably be put in that slot if needed too.
Regarding Reisen, I don't know if she really has enough SP to abuse it yet or not, but are you abusing Grand Patriot's Elixir to keep her buffed? +40% to all stats and it only puts her at 86% delay, allowing her to full-buff herself in no time flat then ream opponents with mass Discarder debuffs.
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Reisen has to have low base stats. If her stats were any higher, Grand Patriot's Elixir would be ridiculously broken (well, more broken than it already is right now). She is limited by SP to start with, but I find that usually by floor 16 she's able to quickly chug 2 or 3 Elixirs and then go to town, refreshing the Elixirs every 2 or 3 turns. In my last Plus Disk run, she was my 2nd best damage dealer come endgame (when she had no SP issues whatsoever). With enough SP to keep herself permanently at 50-80% buffs, she was tankier than all but the dedicated tanks and off-tanks.
Iku is arguably the best MND tank in the game. Just dump all of her level bonuses into MND, and watch her take next to no damage from most MAG-based bosses. I've had Iku take slot 1 against some heavy MAG bosses. Patchouli and Yuyuko could potentially get more MND than Iku, but at the expense of their MAG, which they also need to deal their damage. Iku can cast nothing but Thundercloud Stickleback and still be MVP for your team.
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Oh my god, just finished 12F Eintei.
Wow, that was really hard. Definitely the hardest boss yet, even with using cheat engine to count health.
I think the only reason I survived is Eirin didn't use Astronomical Entombing until her fourth or fifth turn.
Oh, and Iku's buffs are pretty much the reason why she's so good. As long as you have some PAR resistance, it's relatively easy to boost your attackers to full, which lets them do a LOT more damage. In addition, her MND isn't bad either. I only ever use her DEF debuffs when I've accidentally switched her in so that the nuke moves first.
For example, (my) Suwako hit 20-30K against Kaguya, but with Iku's buff her attack shot up to 55K.
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In my last Plus Disk run, she was my 2nd best damage dealer come endgame (when she had no SP issues whatsoever). With enough SP to keep herself permanently at 50-80% buffs, she was tankier than all but the dedicated tanks and off-tanks.
In the same vein, Ran's def/mnd buff can be infinitely spammed (Give her high sp bonus gear in plus disk, it practically doubles your SP, seriously) endgame to keep your entire party at 70~100% def/mnd. This has a massive effect due to how the damage formula works, considering that it's like 20~50% more buff then you'd normally consistently have on. (Reimu has too much of a delay for this, and Yukari has the same delay coupled with low speed so hell no)
I normally don't like Ran's buffs much, but using them like that is just faaaaaabulous.
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Oh, wow...I never quite understood Stickleback. But then, I was always wary about the status stuff because I have a tough time understanding resistances in this game. Maybe later I'll give it a shot, for now I'll just try to stick with what I have.
I didn't realize the Elixir trick. I should pump some more into her SP pool and maybe a little into her speed, just to help her get going. My biggest problem was her getting oneshotted before she even got a turn, so that should handily circumvent that.
I'll go grind up a little more and see about facing Maribel. Overgrinding probably won't kill me, as I hear Plus Disc is a killer and having a good baseline will help me along.
Oh, one last thing, one of those star things, it says "Get every item on the first ten pages" in the wiki, but I've heard it as "Get every item in the game." Which one is correct, or are there simply more than one stars like that?
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First ten pages. The bonus stars were in the game before the Plus Disk was released, and before the Plus Disk, the first ten pages were every item in the game.
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So I just did some more of my draft team run, and I think it's actually working out the way I expected it to.
I beat the first 2 of Wriggle's bugs (the second of which I used DTH on because boring repeated fight is boring) without anything eventful occurring.
Reimu was level 9 when I fought Cirno, it was an easy fight that would have been easier had I remembered Alice had a single target fire move.
Reimu was only level 10 when I went on and fought Youmu-this fight was much harder, although Mesh of Light and Darkness made it go easier (PAR+SPD debuff on Youmu both times while the ghost half was out). Keine is shaping up to be as tanky as expected although she died to 3 Slash of Eternity attacks in a row. Yin Yang Orb ended up being the final attack.
Then I went and fought Rumia at level 13-it was another hard fight, she decided to open with Demarcation, and she also used it several times in a row later in the fight. Mystia was MVP for being able to heal those debuffs, Yuyuko had some solid damage but Youmu and Suika dealt the most.
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Then I went and fought Rumia at level 13-it was another hard fight, she decided to open with Demarcation, and she also used it several times in a row later in the fight. Mystia was MVP for being able to heal those debuffs, Yuyuko had some solid damage but Youmu and Suika dealt the most.
I can see Mystcia being a complete troll to Rumia [Boss].
Oddly enough, it sounds like your draft run against Rumia went identically to mine. She opened with Demarcation and Dark Side of the Moon for me. Except I didn't have Mysti, so my best option for removeing debuffs was buffing, which few of my characters could do, or one of Yuuka's skills, I forgot the exact one.
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I can see Mystcia being a complete troll to Rumia [Boss].
She would have been a bigger troll except lack of SP.
Anyway, Ifrit was uneventful despite me derping and losing Mystia and Suika immediately.
Alice, on the other hand, took 2 tries, the first of which had Alice and Reimu barely hanging on at the end (I failed), and the latter of which...almost has to be seen to be believed. Minoriko and Mystia dual MVPs here, Minoriko for being the only one who can hurt Magical Light consistently and Mystia for Poisonous Moth's Dark Dance. Reimu gets honorary MVP for surviving the Little Legion that wiped Yuyuko, Keine and 1 other character with only 2 HP left. Yes, that was 2 HP away from a game over. Probably would have been easier had I gone in with Reimu at a higher level than 17, but whatever.
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Fought Tam's Foe after entering every single teleporter on the level to unlock him.
Actually lost the first time because I underestimated Flowing Hellfire's power, because Ifrit's was like a tickle. I instantly lost Sanae and Aya.
2nd time I was still sacrificeing characters to HellFire [Orin and Utusho could each only take one, but that's all they need to do, absorb the first blast, and Remillia was taken out towards the end, although Tenshi tanked like a boss].
Kanako's CLD nuke was hitting over 10k. Cirno was actually the MPV in terms of damage, I buffer her with Aya and Sanae, and she was hitting 5k+ with each Icicle Fall. Not to mention Cirno's sped debuffs. Had 6 standing when the fight ended.
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Just did St. Elmo's Fire, Reimu level 20.
It has less health than Alice, but even still...it wasn't an easy battle. Wind of Souls was an absoulte killer on my party, thankfully Utsuho and Yuyuko could comfortably tank everything (Bonfire+Wind of Souls). Youmu dealt 4k with 3 slash of eternity, single-handedly knocking off half its health. Chen, Rinnosuke and Alice dealt most of the rest.
I see Yuugi as being the opposite of this fight-I'll know for sure in another 150 or so battles :V
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Finally got started with my draft run. I'm about ready to take on the 1F bosses. One reason this took so long is that I've decided to do a full video Let's Play for it. The first episode is uploading right now. The first part won't be very exciting for most of you guys who have beaten the game several times over, but I'll post a link here just in case. I'm also wondering in which forum I should make a general thread for my Let's Plays. Any ideas? I'm currently LPing danmakufu scripts and LoT, nothing else for right now but that could change.
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LP threads go in Akyu's. For a Labyrinth-specific LP, just post the updates here. We're all pretty much doing informal LPs here by posting our progress.
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LP threads go in Akyu's. For a Labyrinth-specific LP, just post the updates here. We're all pretty much doing informal LPs here by posting our progress.
Thanks for the info, I'll get that up soon. In the meantime: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkUQ1Gw1dSs
Here's part 1. Nothing interesting yet.
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I've been grinding on floor 20 for a while now, and I have to ask, what's with this "Heaven's Lightning" attack? Everything here spams it, and I've seen Hellfire Demon Kings cast it up to six times. I wouldn't complain, but when one of my squishier members gets caught in the blue, six bolts of lightning tend to hurt, and even Meiling has trouble recovering from it when it's followed by a stronger attack. Also, while I've seen The Norns listed as dropping Ribbons, they only ever seem to give Elder Dragon's Jewels, which while nice, are not exactly what I'm looking for. Can you tell me where to find them, if not dropped by the Norns?
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I've been grinding on floor 20 for a while now, and I have to ask, what's with this "Heaven's Lightning" attack? Everything here spams it, and I've seen Hellfire Demon Kings cast it up to six times. I wouldn't complain, but when one of my squishier members gets caught in the blue, six bolts of lightning tend to hurt, and even Meiling has trouble recovering from it when it's followed by a stronger attack. Also, while I've seen The Norns listed as dropping Ribbons, they only ever seem to give Elder Dragon's Jewels, which while nice, are not exactly what I'm looking for. Can you tell me where to find them, if not dropped by the Norns?
Heaven's Lightning has a post-use delay of 10200. A character gets their turn when their gauge is the highest above 10000. That's why it gets spammed.
I believe the Truth Seeing Eyes that come along with The Norns drop the Jewels-The Norns themselves drop the Ribbons on a 1.5% chance. I ended up being very lucky and got 2 Ribbons in 7 fights when I needed 2 more for some Plus Disc stuff.
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There's a box with a ribbon as well, in case you missed it. Actually, it's kind of advantageous to skip that box since the Norns give you the ribbon more easily if you don't already have one, so you can get one from the Norns, then return to the box to get two ribbons.
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Heaven's Lightning has a post-use delay of 10200. A character gets their turn when their gauge is the highest above 10000. That's why it gets spammed.
Oh that's just NASTY. I guess I've just been having bad luck with the RNG then, to have them get caught in loops like that. Guess it's time to heavily invest in everyone's Mind again.
There's a box with a ribbon as well, in case you missed it. Actually, it's kind of advantageous to skip that box since the Norns give you the ribbon more easily if you don't already have one, so you can get one from the Norns, then return to the box to get two ribbons.
Ahh, if only I'd known that a few floors back. Oh well, and thanks for the trick, I'll try it on my next run. As for now, I'll just keep trashing Norns until I get a Ribbon for Minoriko. It always sucks when a healer gets nailed by instadeath, and I might as well increase her debuff resistances too. Honestly, I'd pull a Gold Cloth off Reimu if it weren't for the fact that I'm pretty sure she needs everything, whereas Minoriko only really needs defenses.
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Oh that's just NASTY. I guess I've just been having bad luck with the RNG then, to have them get caught in loops like that. Guess it's time to heavily invest in everyone's Mind again.
Yeah, the amount of Heaven's Lightnings used varies from 1 to 6-thankfully it's capped.
You'll see something similar with a Bloodstained Seal boss later...
The ribbon Zil mentioned is on the 13th floor I think-I'd check the wiki though.
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"Ooh what's this explanation mark?"
Suddenly Sanae's Fow; Flowing Hellfire insta-wipe
Yay for not being boss symbol :/
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That's not a boss fight until you have at least 20 characters. I'm surprised you had 20 before you found it.
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That's not a boss fight until you have at least 20 characters. I'm surprised you had 20 before you found it.
New Game+, 40 characters from the beginning.
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Hey, does anyone know how to make one of those Charagraph images? I'm aware it has something to do with transparency and the names and sizes and whatnot, but does anyone have the actual dimensions? I've downloaded every image pack I've seen, but I haven't found any particularly badass looking images of Aya, and I'd like her to fit into my dark & gritty character portrait set, so I figure I might as well try and make my own.
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Making the Charagraph images is simple (but kind of hard to get it right). First you need a picture that you want to use (it can be of any dimensions as scaling is easy). Secondly a image editing program that can create a transparent layer, I use Gimp for this as paint can't do it. Then in that program go around cropping out the sections you don't want and convert them to a transparent layer, this part can take a bit as even the smallest pixel is really obvious so the cropping has to be really tight. The scaling should be easy but if the image is to flat it might cause issues. The dimensions of the Stand image is just a height of 360 but the width can be whatever. The face icons are a little harder, for the Large face select an area with a ratio of 0.9:1(I think), and the smaller one is just 1:1. The larger one scales down to 104*112 pixels and the smaller one to 50*50. It can take a long time (the cropping) but the results tend to be worth it.
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Just popping in to say that someone hacked my computer, infecting it with a lock-out malware. This required me to completely reset my computer and re-install Windows, which has resulted in the loss of EVERYTHING.
Needless to say, I've lost my draft run file. As that is part of everything.
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@ the above
That really sucks :(
As for me, since I fixed my recording, I can proceed.
However, since I'm behind on uploading, have what I currently have up:
Wriggle's first bug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hswf_BzVAh4
Cirno (level 9): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yYH3gydltM
Youmu (level 10): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OyJOMVX0vk
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Phew, just went through Rinnosuke.
First of all, his boss art... O.o
And he was surprisingly easier than I had thought. Maybe it helped that I had a variety of elements to choose from, but even boosted Youmu dealt 90K with non-elemental Slash of Eternity. Suwako was hitting upwards of 200K when fully boosted and with type advantage.
Maybe it helped that I managed to kill him before he used world shaking military rule, but even then Gungnir, Croaking Frog, and Slash of Eternity killed him using only one shot each.
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Can't say for certain yet, but I *may* be able to salvage some of my files. My draft run may be recoverable. When I reinstalled Windows most of my files got moved to Windows.old, and not outright deleted as I anticipated. Ofc, I need to ensure that I can pinpoint the virus before I fish around and see exactly what is recoverable, but from going to my old desktop folder I see my shortcut there at least, which is a good omen.
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I haven't forgotten about my draft run.
7F: No real problems running around. Got a Forbidden Tablet in the first run of the area and another one when I came back to grind a bit before fighting Suwako.
8F: Underestimated Komachi's event souls a little. First one almost wiped me so I left them alone until I cleared 9F. Got 2 Gutsy T-shirt drops very early and sold them.
9F: Straightforward stuff and fully explored it in 2 trips with good TP management. Haven't fought Nitori yet but took Reisen out easy.
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Can't say for certain yet, but I *may* be able to salvage some of my files. My draft run may be recoverable. When I reinstalled Windows most of my files got moved to Windows.old, and not outright deleted as I anticipated. Ofc, I need to ensure that I can pinpoint the virus before I fish around and see exactly what is recoverable, but from going to my old desktop folder I see my shortcut there at least, which is a good omen.
I hope that's the case, really sorry about what happened :(
Anyway, my draft run is finally progressing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zgESQ64zQA
Finished the 1F and defeated Chen and Meiling. They were quite easy, as expected. Chen took out 2 party members while Meiling didn't defeat anyone. I was surprised to find that they were both nearly immune to poison. Why did the developers bother to make them poison immune but not death immune? It seems really weird but oh well, it's not like i needed to poison them.
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I'm just derping around and taking it slow and easy after having finished the main game with my draft run. Working my way through the V2 bosses, still have about 6 or 7 of them left to go.
Just finished collecting the four unique drops from the 20F mobs, so that's nice to cross off my list.
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Finally got back around to my game, where I was currently at 16F but stuck there. I did manage to go defeat Kaguya's FOE (Reimu level 69) despite it literally being "Toss fire resist on Meiling/Yuugi/Remilia, throw my usual dungeon team at it" and losing Reimu and Meiling to the "hay I'm using Flowing Hellfire a turn early you ok with that?" thing. Hooray Ranbuffs and Cirno SPD debuffing.
Now back to the grind and maybe poking the two bosses I still have to fight.
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The Foes skip a step in their pattern if one of their single-target skills initially targets an empty slot (you don't see this targeting, as the move is automatically retargeted), so try not to have any empty slots when it acts.
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Further uploads for my draft run:
Rumia (Reimu level 13): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9Iu0x_zHxM
Ifrit (Reimu level 16): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrZkhl05tAc
Alice (Reimu level 17): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT77afOIS6E
I was surprised to find that they were both nearly immune to poison. Why did the developers bother to make them poison immune but not death immune? It seems really weird but oh well, it's not like i needed to poison them.
So was I-perhaps it's because you could have posion at that point without being too overpowered for the fights? (yeah right, since you'd have to beat Youmu). At least you wouldn't be able to get death at that point without being able to oneshot them both.
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Does anyone know what the general patterns are for various boss moves? Because I was considered dropping my second tank slot for a moderately tanky -supporter, which frees up two slots for Iku/Nukers.
Also, I beat Maribel Han :3 yay
Now I just have to drop-grind 20F...
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The Foes skip a step in their pattern if one of their single-target skills initially targets an empty slot (you don't see this targeting, as the move is automatically retargeted), so try not to have any empty slots when it acts.
Except I never did. Maybe it's just a desperation thing for Kaguya's FOE or something
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You may have just mis-remembered its spot in the pattern (I've done that a few times). Outside of what I already mentioned, I've never seen any of the Foes break pattern.
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I have seen Kaguya's Foe use FH-->Tackle-->FH with a full party out on all of these moves.
A friend of mine has seen back to back Flowing Hellfire, with full party.
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I have seen Kaguya's Foe use FH-->Tackle-->FH with a full party out on all of these moves.
A friend of mine has seen back to back Flowing Hellfire, with full party.
How can this possibly happen? A glitch?
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Finally did some of my draft run over the previous week on stream and have reached a road block. I cannot get pass either the Great Stamp, FlanFlan, Kaguya, nor the 16f randoms (though Yukari shouldn't be an issue with my 12).
Despite numerous strategies, the only real way I see myself pressing on is grinding more, which is always the lamest option.
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What team do you have?
Totally not slacking on my draft run
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Marisa (62, popcorn eater/Sparker), Iku (63, 3.7k mnd/Iku things), Tenshi (62, 4.1k def/mnd, 1st slot tank), Remilia (58, 2nd slot tank and damager), Suwako (59, main nuke), Kanako (58, jack-of-all-trades/meatshield), Reisen (62, debuffer/almost useless sex bunny), Orin (62, popcorn eater/almost a nuke), Sakuya (63, off-nuke) Mokou (61, jack-of-all-trades/not as useless as Kanako), Rumia (67, pretty damn good for everything).
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Stamp is the one that can be debuffed into oblivion, right? With Reisen doing that and Sakuya's speed up, you should be able to get a ton of turns per character to each of his. Then when his turn does come, Tenshi's high NTR and State of Enlightenment should allow her to survive. Remi might too, especially if she gets Reimu buff on top of Curse. Everyone else get out of there though, Earthquake hurts like hell.
For Flan, she's got all those composite attacks IIRC, so you want Tenshi on the field the whole fight turning them into zeroes. Other than that, I just Iku'd everyone and made it a damage race. You'll probably want a few more levels though.
I don't really remember anything special about Kaguya's Foe, but then again I brought in Yuugi with fire resist gear and just laughed at flowing hellfire. I don't know how well your tanks would serve in her place though.
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Remilia with roughly 200 FIR affinity (easily attainable with the LOVE Machine 3322) can tank flowing hellfire like a pro. For Flandre, Tenshi needs some affinity on top of her buff to survive Flan's best 2 attacks. Great Stamp I don't exactly remember how that fight goes.
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Great Stamp's the last of the four guardians of 14f/15f who has that very annoying Earthquake and insanely high attack.
Normally he is pretty easy, but I'm having a lot of trouble with this draft party.
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easy as pie. for flandre: buff tenshi, ditch marisa because she's useless in that fight, use nitori instead and spam iku's buff on kanako, nitori and maybe orin. I think NTR was neutral against FLandre, so Suwako would probably work too. get the timing down so those cannons never get hit and you win. as long as you make sure tenshi has enough MYS and FIR resistance, she won't get hurt (too badly) but yes. you will want a few more levels (like...let's say 10 for eeveryone)
why do you have no healer anyway? I know rumia's got a healing spell, but it's fucking weak. It will never suffice in critical situations :v
kaguya's foe is...YEAH, IT'S THE SAME. Except that you can use marisa now. Buff tenshi, give her lotsa FIR affinity and buff your nukers. here a few more levels won't hurt, either.
great stamp is basically this: DEBUFF DEBUFF DEBUFF DEBUFF DEBUFF DEBUFF DEBUFF DEBUFF DEBUFF; NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE NUKE
yeah. not that difficult. be careful thatno nukers get hit by earthquake and you win, really. Tenshi has naturally high NTR resistance and can probably tank one, maybe two. If you keep the debuff steady at -50 for everything, you win.
and what you said about your team: Kanako is a fantastic character. If you do it right, she'll be one of the best in the team you have. If you aren't doing anything wrong with orin, she WILL be a nuker. Blazing wheel is an amazing, high damage attack. Buff her with iku and her damage doubles. at 50%, because composite attacks are like that. That's why laevantein is so fucking amazing when you have it. Flandre's offensive stats dwarf many others. especially ATK, which is the best is the whole game. So yeah. Orin is fucking amazing as far as I am concerned. Mokou is awesome for floor sweeping. But I never found much use for her in boss fights, but that may just be me.
Reisen isn't useless at all. she can dish out fucking serious damage later on. if you spam grand elixir, which has a pathetic gauge thingy, then she can do a lot of damage on par with nukers like Suwako. Because her attacks don't use up all the fucking gauge bar.
Rumia's awesome, yeah.
Why the fuck are you even using Sakuya? Aya's doing a much better job, especially as the game progresses. Leaving aside that I would never build a team like that, you're really missing a serious healer.
And one last thing: why are there only 11 characters listed when you can have 12?
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It's a draft team run, so you're limited to only the 12 characters you drafted for the entire game :V
Also, the 12th character is Reimu, which everyone had.
Last night on stream I know at least Kaguya's Foe fell, I stopped watching after that (sup Withhelde/koakoa, didn't realize that was you at first :V)
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I also got Great Stamp down with some really lucky Par tactics and it coming down to the last people (as per usual).
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Elmo's Fire and 3 Pressures down. Yuyuko DTH'd 2 pressures. The fight took just over 2 minutes, Reimu was level 23. Next boss is Tam's Foe, after 1 and a half floors of exploration.
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Tam really shouldn't be an issue with your group; though Nitori/Suwako may make it so.
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Finally progressing on my draft run: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-bCAprYX_g
Cirno went perfectly, even better than Chen. Youmu should be fun.
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15F gives little to no exp, 16F rapes me, Yukari One-Shots my Meiling and Great Stamp one-shots everything but Tenshi unless he decides to bring out Rasetsu Fist which he does a lot, I'm not even gonna try Flandre.
This gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
Reimu Level 67, something tells me I need to grind, but...
Well, WHERE? Do I really have to stick to 15F? D:
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I am pretty much where you are in my draft run (levels and position wise).
The easiest thing would be to go down to 13F and level a bit (Orin can oneshot everything with Blazing Wheel and likely go before everyone else). Great stamp give me a lot of trouble (I pretty much had to resort to PAR lock, which only have a 28% chance of working), but as long as you debuff him (do not debuff his speed else he'll do his ultra-attack) and high a high HP character in front (China should work), then you should be able to get him.
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13F is a fine place to farm for Blue Sabers. Once you outspeed the swordfish, it's not too dangerous.
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Hi, I started playing this game last week. I'm on floor twelve in the middle of that irritating switch puzzle. My levels range from 38 (Remi) to 45 (Chen) Reimu is 44. I beat Nitori after some work and a few tries, I haven't gotten Suwako or Sanae yet, can I beat them? And then can I beat Tenshi after? Or do I have to level more first?
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Thanks for the tip, 13F grinding ended up being the correct answer, quick, easy, and good EXP, leveled people up until I felt more comfortable, then I beat Yuyuko and Orin (Whom I had forgotten to kill), Great Stamp (Though it was a pretty hard battle) Kaguya's Foe (Whom decided to shenanigan me and back-to-back Flowing Hellfire, even though I had a full party) and finally, just now, Yukari.
Yukari went down after three tries, I took her first form as a means to buff everyone and debuff her, unfortunately, Reisen died pretty quickly, but after a lot of ATK Buffs from Ran and DEF Debuffs from both Orin and Iku, I sent in my heaviest nukers out to get her: Suwako and Nitori.
...Did they just deal 220k damage in a single turn? :getdown:
I was tempted to bring in Kaguya just for a second shot of Croaking Frog, which was dealing upwards to 150k damage, maaaaaaaan.
On the beggining of the fight, she got trigger-happy with Quadruple Border, but it was pretty easy after that, aside from when she decided to one-shot Mokou with Objective Border, not allowing me to further debuff her MAG.
Overall, a smooth battle, it was pretty easy, after all of the leveling, thanks guys.
Now, onto the teleporting madness of floor 17 and Rinnosuke on Floor 18, I've never been so close to the ending before :getdown:
(Reimu Level 75, btw.)
@EDIT
Got flan and did every single fight I can do at this point besides Rinnosuke, Reimu level 78, Wiki recommends 90+ for Rinnosuke.
I'm still grinding on floor 13, but the results are starting to slow down... I still can't reliably kill stuff on 16F and 17F/18F stink.
Help? :ohdear:
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Rough it out on 18F. 17F has nothing that you can't just get elsewhere in terms of drops. The exp returns on 18F are just better at that stage.
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Just beat Rinnosuke, I got tired of grinding after I reached level 90 after mapping out the entire Level 18F, not even gonna map out 17F, after I finally reached level 90, Rinnosuke was still raping me, so I cheat engined my way to level 94.
That's when I beat him.
The fight started out as smoothly as possible, though TP became a huge problem halfway through, in the end I was stuck with pretty much a TP-Less team, it was a major pain in the ass to plow through his forms (Especially because he kept form destroying into the Fire Form, something I was using to "relief" my party, which ended up being half the reason of why I had TP problems).
Once he finally entered the final form, I had only Flan, Youmu, Nitori and Ran left, considering Ran still had enough SP for one more buff, and the rest were all nukers, I just went all out, Flan fell, but he finally died.
Now, onto floor 19F, the Great-Labyrinth-With-An-Equally-Great-Name, and, finally, the Final Floor.
I'm so close.
(Any tips with dealing with mobs on 19F?)
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Which is more valuable, level bonuses or skill points? I mean which should i use for a characters main stat or does it not matter? and if I use two stats can I use one for each? Like Tenshi's defence and mind.
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Spend skill points roughly evenly, with some extra emphasis on the character's stat. By "spend evenly", I mean spend until it costs about the same amount of skill points to raise each stat up to the next level.
With level up points, you should only be spending it on your main stat(s). That's the most efficient way of spending level points. One way you can think of it is that a level up point represents an amount of skill points equivalent to 2/3 of what it costs to reach the next skill level for that particular stat. Say it costs you 3000 skill points to get the next skill level in ATK, but only 2100 skill points to reach the next level for DEF. If you spend your level up bonus on ATK, it's like you just earned 2000 skill points. But if you spent your level up bonus on DEF, then you only earned the equivalent of 1400 skill points.
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Over time, the stat you spend levelup boosts in will REALLY show major difference in comparison to having, uh, not spent them. It adds up greatly, and the cost of trying to make up for it with skill points instead is way too massive to even consider.
So you pretty much want to throw all the levelup bonuses into that one most important stat, basically. Offensive for any character you attack with and defensive on anyone meant for support.
Tenshi can go for MND/DEF both equally on levelups and be fine though. Defensive characters generally want their levelups more or all in one or the other though, due to their use/stat layout.
And then skill points go in everything yeah. Some stats are just plain not very important for some characters though. You'll have to use your own judgment. EVA is broken and a useless stat, and non-offensive characters don't need ATK/MAG much (other then ones who need them for healing), and characters who almost purely only see battle to nuke and get switched out don't need defensive stats as badly, etc.
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Thank you, the amount of points it takes to level up in some stats is amazing, one can be level 50 and another only 20 and it costs the same points. But I digress, what level should I be to recruit Sanae? The wiki doesn't have a reccomendation and I keep getting wiped out.
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I'm about to play this game, quite excited :D
Thank you, the amount of points it takes to level up in some stats is amazing, one can be level 50 and another only 20 and it costs the same points. But I digress, what level should I be to recruit Sanae? The wiki doesn't have a reccomendation and I keep getting wiped out.
The wiki does have a recommendation: supposedly you'd better be level 60 or higher. I have no idea what that means though.
EDIT: I'm playing the game right now and I think it's quite nice.
Drawback: the escape button is pause in most Touhou games, but in this one it means quit without autosave.
Four consecutive times now have I erased my progress while straddling about the first floor, and I still don't know where that crying sound's coming from. It's getting annoying.
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The wiki does have a recommendation: supposedly you'd better be level 60 or higher. I have no idea what that means though.
Reimu's level should be that, the wiki level recommendations are good for a first runthrough but ultimately way too high. I beat Alice at level 17 when the wiki recommends 18-22.
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Aaaand I got my butt handed to me by Meiling. This does not bode very well.
On the other hand, I didn't even try to return to the surface first, so I think after leveling up I should get her alright.
Yay for being a noob, there's so much to discover.
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Aaaand I got my butt handed to me by Meiling. This does not bode very well.
On the other hand, I didn't even try to return to the surface first, so I think after leveling up I should get her alright.
Yay for being a noob, there's so much to discover.
Unless if you've already seen all the crying events, I suggest looping around them, you'll find a one-way path, if you see the second crying event, beat Meiling, THEN see the first Crying event, you unlock an optional boss battle.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter, but it helps.
@My progress
So I got lazy on leveling up on 19F and just Millitary Ruled + Spirited Away + Hourai Barrage + Starbow Break/Laveatainn'd my way through the minibosses of 20F, and I got like 20 levels in no time.
Even then Cosmic was a PAIN IN THE ASS to beat. WHY DO YOU HAVE TO OPEN UP THE FIGHT WITH ETHER FLARE AND DESTROY HALF MY PARTY? WHY.
Aside from that... It was fairly easy to map out the entire 19F, just boring as fuck. Now, my way to the Final Boss is open. I'll try her today after some more leveling. Also, I managed to drop a Scourge and an Armads :3
(Flandre with 15k atk is OP.)
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Drawback: the escape button is pause in most Touhou games, but in this one it means quit without autosave.
Oh god. I just need to comment on this. This is the most annoying thing ever - many games do this. No confirmation, nothing - the game vanishes the instant you hit escape.
I remember spending almost 3 days trying to beat the Eientei trio on F14-ish. The fact you have to go through a maze of teleporters to get to them from the nearest dungeon entrance doesn't help. After a gruelling battle that left only 2 of my 12 characters standing, I finally won, paused the game to go grab myself something to drink (mini-victory-celebration FTW!) and... come back to my desktop.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU- @_@
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Unless if you've already seen all the crying events, I suggest looping around them, you'll find a one-way path, if you see the second crying event, beat Meiling, THEN see the first Crying event, you unlock an optional boss battle.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter, but it helps.
Thanks. I just got eradicated by Meiling again so I'll be sure to do that now.
Is there anything else that is easy to miss and causes stuff to be permanently locked away?
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Thanks. I just got eradicated by Meiling again so I'll be sure to do that now.
Is there anything else that is easy to miss and causes stuff to be permanently locked away?
Nope. That's the only missable event in the entire game, short of dialogue saying what you need to do due to meeting a condition before arriving. It's nothing special, just a boss fight that gives 0 EXP and a guaranteed SPI +128 drop.
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Nope. That's the only missable event in the entire game, short of dialogue saying what you need to do due to meeting a condition before arriving. It's nothing special, just a boss fight that gives 0 EXP and a guaranteed SPI +128 drop.
Nothing special? NOTHING SPECIAL?!
EVERYTHING IS SPECIAL! I MUST see ALL the secrets! ALL OF THEM-I'm sorry, where was I? :blush:
Oh right, Meiling's beaten. Just a bazillion floors, bosses and secrets to go I guess.
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I got that boss fight without realising what I was doing and Game Over'd.
Cue starting again saving after Meiling and grinding to kill that thing, then checking online, learning it's a bonus boss and blitzing the next two floors due to overleveling.
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I'm having so much fun with all these stats and calculations and everything.
Battered Chen into submission, she was a lot easier that Meiling really.
Now prancing around on floor 2. The enemies in there are kind of creepy.
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??? i don't know what it is```i'm a new guys :V
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??? i don't know what it is```i'm a new guys :V
It's a dungeon crawler game, but with Touhou characters instead. That's pretty much the gist of it.
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So, I managed to batter up Cirno. It was a little close at level 10 but it was pretty straightforward.
Also figured out how to rescue Minoriko, she's pretty good.
Now there's Youmu... what level should I be to beat her up? The wiki says at least level 18, but I'm surmising that's too much seeing how Cirno is marked as at least 15. Currently Reimu's 11, Chen's 12 and most of the others are 10 with maybe two at eleven.
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Youmu is beatable at that level, I'd suggest going in and giving it a try and if you get slaughtered then level up again.
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Beatable? O.O
...CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
Still, I am supposed to take out the ghost half first, right? A large part of the problem is how it poisons everyone before I can finish it off, and that pretty much spells doom for most of my party.
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I personally killed the main body first since it has the stronger attacks. If you're having trouble with the poison, remember, Meiling can cure it with her healing spell.
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I personally killed the main body first since it has the stronger attacks. If you're having trouble with the poison, remember, Meiling can cure it with her healing spell.
I know, but the poison deals so much damage that my first target is already at around 150 HP by the time she gets to cure anyone, and by the next turn they're at 1 HP - not really worth curing anymore.
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Taking out the ghost half means the mainbody goes into overdrive, so I would try to whittle the mainbody down to a decent point, then take them out at the same time.
That's how I finally managed it in my time playing.
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Proccing slows on them with Cirno is also a good way to lessen the pain.
But yeah, you *really* want to take out Youmu first. While the Ghost Half also goes into an overdrive, it's nothing like Youmu's.
Youmu gets to use her strongest attack at will, with no Focus beforehand, unlike when the Ghost Half is alive, nothing like Multiple Karma Slashes with whatever one it is.
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Man, paralysis is a bitch to proc. Two Diamond Blizzards and an Evil Sealing Circle with zero procs between Youmu and her ghost half? Blech.
I'll just have to keep trying and hope the RNG doesn't screw me over.
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Proccing slows on them with Cirno is also a good way to lessen the pain.
But yeah, you *really* want to take out Youmu first. While the Ghost Half also goes into an overdrive, it's nothing like Youmu's.
Youmu gets to use her strongest attack at will, with no Focus beforehand, unlike when the Ghost Half is alive, nothing like Multiple Karma Slashes with whatever one it is.
There is one downside to taking out Youmu first. Youmu has a lot more HP, meaning that the Ghost Half has more opportunity to buff Youmu. I can't remember how effective that buff is and I know that the chance of it using it each turn is rather low. However, since Youmu will take a lot more time to defeat, the Ghost Half will have ample opportunity to cast it.
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So I tried it again.
I accidentally killed off the Ghost Half first.
...somehow, I won. Heh. I guess that's pretty good with Reimu at 11.
Now going to explore F3, no idea what's coming. Judging from the darkness events, Rumia or Mystia could be there...
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Now going to explore F3, no idea what's coming. Judging from the darkness events, Rumia or Mystia could be there...
It's Rumia, she's an optional boss that if you fight her as soon as you're able you WILL die.
Mystia shows up muuuuuuch later (after the final boss in the Plus Disc...on 1F)
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Eh, Rumia isn't -that- bad. It's more like, if you fight her in the middle of exploration by walking into her on accident so you're totally unprepared, you're likely to die. It'd be bad if you beelined for her (whether on purpose or on accident) too. But she's not really a boss you should need to wait to need to fight, at least not for long; it's not uncommon to get beaten by her while completely prepared, but if you do, after gaining a couple levels exploring she's probably fine.
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Eh, Rumia isn't -that- bad.
She can wreck you with Demarcation pretty easily :ohdear:
Shes not as bad as I made her sound though, anywhere from 14-16 for Reimu is probably enough.
Walking around on 3F now. Immediately walked into Alice, and an event here suggested I'll run into Yuugi on this floor or some other.
You will, but not for the reason you think :V The event you ran into (presumably a sake shard) is one of 6 or 7 required to recruit Suika way later.
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Walking around on 3F now. Immediately walked into Alice, and an event here suggested I'll run into Yuugi on this floor or some other.j
There sure are a lot of dead-end corridors in here.
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I think for your sake everyone should refrain from spoiling for the time being.
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Walking around on 3F now. Immediately walked into Alice, and an event here suggested I'll run into Yuugi on this floor or some other.j
There sure are a lot of dead-end corridors in here.
All I'll say is I hope you like grinding :V
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I think for your sake everyone should refrain from spoiling for the time being.
Heh. I can see where you're coming from, this place sure has a lot of secrets. It's fun to be a newbie :D
All I'll say is I hope you like grinding :V
It's okay for now, since there's treasure all over the freaking place.
Sooo I just tried to batter up Rumia. It was going really well, no idea what all the hubbub's about... until she used Demarcation and I understood.
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http://i50.tinypic.com/2z3s1mh.png (http://i50.tinypic.com/2z3s1mh.png)
I just finished this game, the main game, at least.
For the first time, no cheat engine used (Except to speed up grinding, since i hate grinding but REALLY wanna finish this game), I finished this game.
Now, I have access to miss overpowered herself - Mystia Lorelei.
As for the battle... Everything went was smoothly as possible. That is, until the last minute. I began the fight by ran buffing everyone, and keeping Shredding Amnesiari as Paralyzed as possible, once Aria-singing Toruastory appeared, I just mass debuffed it with a 3-elixir Reisen and it was barely a threat. Then she summoned Staring Igmaruji.
Then shit went to hell.
Staring Igmaruji wasn't a problem in and of itself, it went down before it took a third turn. The problem was Shredding Amnesiari, it pretty much got tired of me PAR-Locking him and outright REFUSED to get paralyzed, 3 Evil-Sealing Circles and Meshes of Light and Darkness, and no PAR. It got even worse when he decided that DTH'ing my Reimu was a fun idea with Hyperspace Slash.
Once Staring Igmaruji went down, I immediately focused Shredding Amnesiari, killing it before it took two turns, Aria-singing Toruastory was barely a problem, it got a Strengthen Jutsu off, but I just exploded it.
I then went to town on her.
She overflowed herself, and proceeded to pound HARD on my team. What you see on that screenshot is literally everything that was left of my team. She got two chaotic Quadruple Barriers on my Meiling, effectively locking her down, and then proceeding to insta-kill both Flandre and Suwako with another Overflowed Berserk, which also took Meiling, with a DTH'ed Reimu, Meiling and two of my damage dealers down, I just took everything I still had, after several more poundings (And a third overflowing), I finally managed to finish her off with Iku (Who only survived thanks to a miraculous heal by Minoriko), Yukari, Kaguya and Nitori. The Gun was the killing blow.
I don't think I need to say much more. I'm euphoric, also, Reimu level 133 - a bit overleveled, as far as I'm concerned, but it was still a fair fight.
Now, on to get miss overpowered, and pound hard on the Post game.
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I have no idea what that all means, but I gather it's a big accomplishment. Relish in your well-deserved surge of dopamin.
For my part, I beat Rumia. Reimu was at level 15. It's going pretty smoothly.
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Started playing this again, started over cause my old save was on another computer. I remember how unfun it was running into Suwako after exploring so I skipped a frog on F7, but now I can't get the frog that triggered the fight in the first place, so is the last frog always going to be the same?
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The frog that triggers the fight is always the 8th one. I'm yet to test this, but I think the game triggers the Suwako fight after the event that gives you the 8th frog.
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I mean, what I was asking was, is the eight frog always going to be the same one? The one that's on the other side of the map from the downstairs to the 7th floor? I remember that being the one that Suwako came after, but I can't trigger it. There's not even a "!" speech bubble.
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No, the frog that triggers Suwako is not fixed. Whenever you find the 8th frog, Suwako will show up.
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Ah thanks, I must have picked that one with out noticing. I hate to admit it, but I had to use the map on the wiki to find the one I missed, I explored all of F8 by myself except for one square just a little to the right of the center of the map. That hurt my pride a little bit :V
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I always intentionally skip the frog that appears right next to Tam's Foe on the 7th floor. It's the easiest frog to reach, so as long as I remember not to get it, I can have quick access to Suwako whenever I desire.
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On my sixth try today and fourteenth overall, I polished off Alice Margatroid with Reimu at 18. I had to get a little lucky.
Then I tried to pause. With escape.
*cliff*
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I'm fighting the Eientei group. I managed to take out Kaguya and was working on Reisen, when Eirin just decided to kill us all. She did over 4000 damage to everyone, Meiling included. And everyone had at least 60% Mind and Defense boost. So what the hell do I do against that?
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Short version:
Each one of them has an uber attack that they will use after a certain trigger is met.
Detailed version that goes slightly in-depth into game mechanics:These triggers are certain health values, at which point they will focus beforehand, OR, they can use it any time after someone is taken out. Eirin and Reisen can both use theirs after Kaguya, and Kaguya can use hers after Eirin is removed. Reisen's is the same as her previous fight, but Kaguya's and Eirin's both ignore defenses, the only way to survive is pump SPI affinity.
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Basically, the ideal situation is to kill Kaguya and Eirin at the same time, so you only have to deal with Reisen's ultimate attack, which you can actually defend against.
Of course, ignoring defense means you can also defend against it with HP as well as SPI resist, I think Komachi can do well here.
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Is full HP meiling recomendable? =/
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Is full HP meiling recomendable? =/
No, but it works alright. It's better for Meiling to go full DEF though.
Of course, as I say this, I admit I pumped HP for like 50 levels to make her able to take Shikieiki's Last Judgment.
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HP/DEF works best for Meiling I think, with an early defensive focus shifting more towards an HP focus as the opponents get more and more defense piercing moves.
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I'm fighting the Eientei group. I managed to take out Kaguya and was working on Reisen, when Eirin just decided to kill us all. She did over 4000 damage to everyone, Meiling included. And everyone had at least 60% Mind and Defense boost. So what the hell do I do against that?
Oh man, this was my favorite battle. It was so hard the first time (took like 2 days of occasional attempts and repeated griding) - the fairly long route leading up to the fight doesn't help.
Once you kill off one of them or reduce their health enough, the fight goes into overdrive mode. As soon as a boss uses focus you know they're about to do horrible things to you. You can keep Reisen pinned down pretty easily with Cirno, Reimu, Suwako, a few others since paralysis hits her like a sack of bricks. I think you can keep Kaguya from using her debuff on you if you avoid hitting anyone in the group with more than a few debuffs, too. Ideally keep them pinned down with multi-target paralysis skills, avoid hitting them with too many debuffs, and try to save Reisen for last since she can be nullified easily enough. At least IIRC that was how I did it.
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What is the recommended level for the Celestial Bright Demon? Also where is the best grind spot early post game, I get wiped really fast on floor 24.
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Oh man, this was my favorite battle. It was so hard the first time (took like 2 days of occasional attempts and repeated griding) - the fairly long route leading up to the fight doesn't help.
Once you kill off one of them or reduce their health enough, the fight goes into overdrive mode. As soon as a boss uses focus you know they're about to do horrible things to you. You can keep Reisen pinned down pretty easily with Cirno, Reimu, Suwako, a few others since paralysis hits her like a sack of bricks. I think you can keep Kaguya from using her debuff on you if you avoid hitting anyone in the group with more than a few debuffs, too. Ideally keep them pinned down with multi-target paralysis skills, avoid hitting them with too many debuffs, and try to save Reisen for last since she can be nullified easily enough. At least IIRC that was how I did it.
That's what I ended up doing. I opened with Reimu, Alice, Nitori, and Wriggle. And I switched out Wriggle for Patchy after they were poisoned. I just spammed Evil Sealing Circle, Little Legion, Extension Arm, and Royal Flare until Kaguya was dead. Then I tagged Alice and Nitori for Marisa and Yuugi and used Master Spark and Knockout in Three Steps. Then I just wailed on Reisen until I won. I managed to keep her and Eirin Paralyzed for most of the fight. I'd feel like I was cheating if that wasn't my bazillionith attempt.
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What is the recommended level for the Celestial Bright Demon? Also where is the best grind spot early post game, I get wiped really fast on floor 24.
I was grinding on 20F until I reached 25F.
I'd suggest Reimu at around level 210 I think.
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So, after remembering my login... :V
I finally got my crew to past Level 1000 XD Chen is no longer my highest level character, but Rumia! At 1378, she has 7 levels on my Chen XD Guess that is what happens when you don't use Chen, but do use Rumia XD
Also, at these levels, I find that only Final Boss V2 and The Super Boss can survive Megawatt, surviving 4 and 5 hits each
which is tons of damage to survive o_o
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So, after remembering my login... :V
I finally got my crew to past Level 1000 XD Chen is no longer my highest level character, but Rumia! At 1378, she has 7 levels on my Chen XD Guess that is what happens when you don't use Chen, but do use Rumia XD
Also, at these levels, I find that only Final Boss V2 and The Super Boss can survive Megawatt, surviving 4 and 5 hits each
which is tons of damage to survive o_o
W*I*N*N*E*R is literally impossible to OHKO, and gets significantly more HP and stats every time you do beat him and re-fight him. It's no shocker you can't OHKO him, although I'm shocked it's even a 4/5 HKO.
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I finally got my crew to past Level 1000 XD Chen is no longer my highest level character, but Rumia! At 1378, she has 7 levels on my Chen XD Guess that is what happens when you don't use Chen, but do use Rumia XD
Cirno and Chen are duking it out for highest level in my game. Yeah, not using Chen and Cirno usually being the first person I tag in probably helps. Also through seer dumb luck she's almost always in the party at the end of boss fights.
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W*I*N*N*E*R is literally impossible to OHKO, and gets significantly more HP and stats every time you do beat him and re-fight him. It's no shocker you can't OHKO him, although I'm shocked it's even a 4/5 HKO.
Nothing that massive amounts of levels can't fix. My PC broke down and I haven't been able to recover my stuff yet. Can't get it done for the showing.
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Did I miss something? Cause I can not make any progress on Floor 15. The random encounters are so annoying. There are these shadows that don't die, these knights that don't die, the tengu that don't die, and the lampost that you can barely even scratch. I thought Floor 14 was annoying with the Golem that didn't die. My exploration team is Meiling, Yuugi, Alice, and Marisa. Up until Floor 14, Marisa and Alice would kill most everything and Yuugi would pick off any survivors and Meiling made sure there wasn't a surprise party wipe. But now after an Asteroid Belt, Little Legion, and Storm on Mt. Ooe the entire enemy party is still alive and kicking. And those Knights can make short work of Meiling. My levels are late fifties to mid-sixties and I have their HP, SP, ATK or MAG, DEF, MIND, and SPD up to Lv30. And affinities around Lv10.
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I'm not certain or anything, but I don't think Yuugi has much place in random fights. Just have one tank (if even that), someone to debilitate the enemies, and the others should be big fast multi-target hitters. I recommend using someone fast to paralyze them (Cirno works well, I don't remember who else there is) if you can't outspeed them from the start. Also note that Marisa's MYS element often cuts her damage is some fights. If you're going to use slow characters with big nukes Patchy is probably a better choice, especially given how she can usually strike the enemy's weakness. Remi is probably better than Meiling in randoms since she can get out some quick attacks, while Meiling just takes hits. Alternatively, you might use the tank to swap other characters around, letting you get more attacks in (i.e. remove the paralyzer to bring in someone stronger).
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Weaknesses like SPI (and I think maybe FIR) take out the shadows well, and non-physical attacks (Alice has magic too!) work better on knights. For the invincible seeming enemies you need something nuke-tier; Yuugi might have something that can do the trick.
Yuugi's fine in randoms because she has a workable MT skill and her nukes are good for those single tough enemies.
Reimu works as a paralyzer while still being someone you want to have unlike Cirno, who gets stale as characters who have more use then "Speed down and PAR" while still having such skills come up. Plus she has nifty SPI stuff!
I didn't ever stick to 4 specific people in an exploration party because of TP (or whatever the motivation stat was, it's been years), although in Plus Disk where I had a party of half support people and more TP then before it became more common to only have a very small pool of characters used for it.
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Trading Patchy for Yuugi helped a whole lot. It never really crossed my mind to use Patchy as an explorer, just cause in early game her horrible TP and expensive spells made her horrible for it. But not that's all moot, what with her having more Mana than Marisa and Royal Flare being cheaper than Asteroid Belt and having some nice TP boosting items. She actually lasts longer than Marisa and Alice. And it's not like I use just those four characters and go home when they run out of Mana. They're just my front line, I do switch in characters when they run low. I have Yuugi, Cirno, and Nitori for physical damage and Rumia, Sanae, and Reisen for Magical. Also have Reimu and Minoriko around just in case.
But I haven't gotten much use out of Minoriko in awhile. Sanae heals for more and removes ailments. Rumia and Reimu can both party heal. Reimu can buff the whole party in one turn and take a hit. I was thinking of trading her for Ran cause buffing the reserves sounds really handy. I'm not sure though because it's not a whole lot and she can only do it twice before having to tag out. Any other suggestions for a party member. I have everyone up to Tenshi and I'm missing four and have Suika. And I think I might be getting Flandre and Kaguya (if that thing she said about the 16th floor happens) soon.
P.S. I still hate the Tengus. I ran into three Tengus and the first ignored Meiling, Alice, and Marisa and killed Patchy. And then the second one killed Marisa. And then just to mess with me, the third one used their weak Cherry Blossom attack. And this was all before I got a turn.
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Tengu have 0 PAR resistance, so if you can load up Cirno with a ton of SPD items and some skill points in SPD to overcome the Tengu's 174 stat, you can easily paralyze them and keep them from doing anything while you mop them up. The catch is that you need more than just 174 speed, since they can still act if you paralyze them while their bar is full.
Minoriko is good because she's a great MND tank with really low delays on her spells. Sure, Sanae's heal might be stronger, but Minoriko can spam hers almost twice as fast.
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Minoriko is also significantly more MND tanky then Sanae, and her heal and buff are very cheap, so they can be spammed at all parts of the game, and are even easily usable in Djinn Storm situations, which is notable for both the Yukari fight -and- the final boss, both difficult bosses.
...and Sanae's heal is a lot weaker then Minoriko's :V Unless you're like, comparing MAG build Sanae to MND build Minoriko or something, maybe.
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I'll also agree that Minoriko is the better healer. On top of what's been said, Sanae's ailment removing will also become less of an advantage as you gain immunity to prevent the ailments in the first place. Also, keeping both of them around is probably overkill (strictly speaking, you don't even need either of them), and Ran's supposed to be a great character or something, so if you're thinking of swapping her in, I'd say go for it.
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On top of what's been said, Sanae's ailment removing will also become less of an advantage as you gain immunity to prevent the ailments in the first place.
Meiling is next to always around when you need ailment healing anyway; if she's SILenced, that's one thing, but Meiling should be the first priority to get high status resist... something that should occur before you get Sanae.
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has anybody found a way to fix small things like missing animations and no sounds from late bosses? also whats the best build for healer eirin?
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I never had any issues with sound and animations o.O but as far as I know it's something you could turn off/on since the special pack.
as for eirin: defensive. if you only use her for healing, then anything but defenses is silly and doesn't make sense, since her healing spell is dependent on the HP of the target.
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by bugs i mean stuff like meiling mountain breaker missing sprites,def mnd or hp eirin?
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A lot of the Plus Disk character bosses, like Utsuho and Shikeiki, are missing the sound effects for their signature spells. It still works fine once you've recruited them.
With Eirin, I would probably choose depending on which slot you expect her to take. DEF for slot 1, MND for other slots. I normally go with MND on my semi-bulky characters who aren't in slot 1, as they are more likely to take magic damage and raising DEF/MND over HP synergizes better with other kinds of healing spells, but I suppose Eirin is unique. Maybe doing a split is better, I dunno. This is where I can't really theorycraft effectively.
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i will figure out what to do with eirin later :V
I also feel this will be a hard playtrought, only 1 supporter and 1 healer and tons of expensive spells,i feel i was cheating when i was killing all with DTH on floor 1 and 2 with komachi.....
Meiling
Tenshi
Mokou
Utsuho
Eirin
Kaguya
Komachi
Shikieiki
Yuuka
Flandre
Renko
Yukari
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Renko essentially makes the game much easier on you though, regardless. The debuffs are so nice <3
Which is why I also don't really want to use her because that's all she does. Still!
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On paper, Eirin seems like a good character, in practice though I can't believe show SHE wasn't in Team Unappreciated and the likes of Nitori and Iku were :wat:
Her defenses are subpar, she isn't particularly fast and her magic isn't all that great, her formulas aren't anything absurdly impressive and the only thing she really has going for her is Hourai Elixir which loses a lot of its potential since you can't buff your ally after casting it if they do get the extra HP.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but she really seems like the weakest character in the game.
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Just started a new game a couple days ago, and I'm thinking of deviating from the suggested builds a bit for some characters. Looking for some feedback on the effectiveness of said builds before I go all-in.
Reimu - Magic heavy, some mind. Better healing (and attacking for whatever it's worth), but I'm concerned about her taking too much damage and dying on me.
Meirin - Torn between pure hp and pure defense. Not sure which would be more effective in the long-term. HP seems would be better for piercing hits and mind-targeting abilities, but is she okay with the low defense? Sure she's beefy, but it's not like she's a steel wall like Tenshi.
Chen - Pure speed. Kimon+flight is pretty sex, and high speed only makes it better. Would also turn her into one badass switcher. But the question is will be able to deal damage with the low attack?
Aya - Same deal as above, but with PWG spam.
Iku/Sanae/Ran/Minoriko - Pure speed. They seem kind of useless aside from buffing and healing. More turns = more efficient?
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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but she really seems like the weakest character in the game.
I'd say Mokou's worse since Hourai Elixir is at least a healing move. Eirin's down there though.
Reimu's attacks become mostly useless, I'd suggest giving her some more speed and mind and less magic (though she does benefit from magic boosts, especially early game).
Meiling I split between HP and defense, defense is more useful early on but HP becomes far more useful lategame, so I'd adjust the spread accordingly.
Chen needs attack, hands down. If you don't boost her attack her damage very quickly reaches 0.
Aya I never really got to deal damage so she's fine as speed buffer/switcher. PWG is still a nice utility move for getting her speed up faster and some extra damage on top.
Ran I gave some of everything and she turned out fine, able to deal some decent damage with Soaring and Laser. Minoriko should get some early magic for heal boosts and then some mind, Iku should get LOTS of mind and Sanae magic/speed.
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I can attest to Ran being good with everything. She's a real Jack-Of-All-Stats.
In most game, Reimu falls under that. But not this one. Ran's one of the higher-end characters who's pretty versatile in everything she does.
Need a buffer? She's got you covered. Need a nuker? She's got you covered.
She's the Nine-Tailed Strategist after all, so it's child's play.
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Mokou offers more elements and utility than appears. It's only that other people can do the job better.
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> mokou worst character in the game > good joke.
Yeah, her fire attacks aren't the strongest in the game, but that's because you have crazy stuff like laevantein, knockout in 3 steps and blazing wheel for that element. if you're handling mokou properly, she's somewhere in the middle range.
if we go by damage, the weakest is obviously renko :v but yeah. everyone knows renko's awesome and makes the game piss easy. but no really, the character I perceive as weakest is probably eirin, too. hear magic growth isn't too great to cover for the average spell formular and aside from high HP characters like komachi, youmu or meiling, hourai elixir doesn't help much. sure, you can heal over the limit, but it still doesn't help you if you character's got 20k HP overall and needs 18k healed.
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Utsuho is worst, Eirin at least has utility as tanky nuker in Plus Disk when you can spam Astronomical Entombing (Although Yuyuko is certainly better for such purposes and I would never recommend using Eirin)
Mokou is pretty bad because tons of people do what she does, except they do it a lot better. She's... not horrible, you could use her if you -really- wanted to, I guess. Utsuho just has no real use because all of her moves are super expensive and are random-battle tier damage levels. She has no good move to use on a boss, and has no other perks that would make you want to use her.
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Just something that's been bothering me whenever I make teams.
I like Kaguya. I have a wonderful portrait for her and she is pretty cool all around with the defense ignoring
But! I also really like Yuyuko, who is hip and Deathmaking and nifty in her own way.
But I want to use them together, yet I worry if Kaguya just absolutely trumps Yuyuko in every way! Could someone help me on this <3
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no other perks that would make you want to use her.
Defense ignoring.
MND debuffing in a decent damage attack. (comparable to Mokou's in terms of damage in my experiences)
I never found Mokou useful and I found Utsuho somewhat useful for a few things. I agree that they're both near the bottom overall though.
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But I want to use them together, yet I worry if Kaguya just absolutely trumps Yuyuko in every way! Could someone help me on this <3
How does Kaguya trump Yuyuko in every way? Kaguya has terrible HP. Yuyuko has a move that messes with the enemy gauge, which no other character has. Yuyuko's Flawless Nirvana is also one of the best Spirit Nukes in the game. Yuyuko also has very high Death chance, which is very useful in random battles.
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Defense ignoring.
MND debuffing in a decent damage attack. (comparable to Mokou's in terms of damage in my experiences)
DEF/MND debuffs are seriously useless almost all the time (They make almost no difference in the damage you deal in the vast majority of cases) (ESPECIALLY by the time you actually have utsuho), and Utsuho's mnd ignoring attack only does enough to warrant use in a random battle. Which would be alright, if she was any good outside of random battles. A character who is only good in random battles is a character that is useless; every other character in the game is nice for bosses in some form; even if Mokou is outperformed by tons of other people, even she still has an okay boss nuke, and a ATK/MAG debuff if you need such a thing and don't want to use anyone else's (Reisen, Alice, Maribel, Renko, etc)
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How does Kaguya trump Yuyuko in every way? Kaguya has terrible HP. Yuyuko has a move that messes with the enemy gauge, which no other character has. Yuyuko's Flawless Nirvana is also one of the best Spirit Nukes in the game. Yuyuko also has very high Death chance, which is very useful in random battles.
Kaguya is awesome. Yuyuko has good Spirit nukes but that is her only element meaning anyone resistant to Spirit means she is screwed. Kaguya has multiple elements all of which (cept for one I think) are 100% piercing. Yuyuko's enemy guage manipulation is MUCH weaker against bosses so it is not reliable. But it is all a matter of taste I suppose. Kaguya 100% piercing does mean she can hurt things that are immune to magic (like the Hibachi twins and Bloody Papa).
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I am able to share my charagraph? :ohdear: if so, all the images must be from touhou characters necessarily?
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Nah, go ahead and share whatever characters you want. I've always wanted a League of Legends charagraph for this game, haha.
We have come a long way in our understanding of this game. When I came up with the idea for Team Unappreciated, Iku was seriously less used than Eirin. In fact, people used her so little that the wiki had incorrect information on her (it listed the buff from Thundercloud Stickleback as much lower than it actually is). The fact that such an error was never caught speaks to how unpopular she used to be.
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Nah, go ahead and share whatever characters you want. I've always wanted a League of Legends charagraph for this game, haha.
We have come a long way in our understanding of this game. When I came up with the idea for Team Unappreciated, Iku was seriously less used than Eirin. In fact, people used her so little that the wiki had incorrect information on her (it listed the buff from Thundercloud Stickleback as much lower than it actually is). The fact that such an error was never caught speaks to how unpopular she used to be.
And now Iku is seen as near broken for buffing nukers to stupid levels.
Same with Nitori and her Megawatt Cannon.
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Here is the link if anybody is interested, All my stand pictures are 450 pixels tall because i am picky and i didnt liked the empty space below :V
http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii237/matrix8000/Share%20Charagrapt/
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Same with Nitori and her Megawatt Cannon.
The difference is, Nitori's Megawatt actually -was- pretty eh, it's just that in Special Disk they gave it a ridiculously huge buff.
The formula went from factoring in 625% of the Attack stat, to 1000%.
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Thanks, I Have No Name for a while ago. (That sounds weird) Yah, I really need to grind now but I just don't feel like at the moment.
It would be cool though if we had a place to store all our Charagraphs, I've managed to find a large number of different packs on the web but it involved a lot of searching.
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Post the charagraph download and I'll add it to the OP. I leave it to you guys to check the validity of the links.
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Here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z
I think that should work. I just uploaded all my charagraph stuff, so there will be a lot of repeats but I don't want to take the time to sort it all out.
Wasn't some doing some a long time ago? I just remember a very fluffy Chen. Does anyone still have that?
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has anybody found a way to fix small things like missing animations and no sounds from late bosses? also whats the best build for healer eirin?
I've fixed the missing animations, but I can't do anything about most of the missing sounds. Someone that actually knows assembly might be able to fix it, but it's beyond me.
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On the note of charagraphs... I've been trying to figure out how to change the images for bosses and such. Does anyone happen to know the keystring for the DXA files, since apparently I need that in order to extract the images from them?
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It's my first playthrough of this game and I feel like sharing a short war story. I approached the fight against Eientei with Reimu at level 52, after two or three earlier, failed "test" attempts, somewhat prepared, though I didn't expect to find a winning strategy just yet. My lineup was Meiling-Reimu-Cirno-Patchouli. I brought Cirno in hopes of inflicting paralysis, but it didn't work and the first enemy attack of the battle was Fire Rat's Robe... So already a stupid mistake resulting in a KO'd party member.
Amazingly, after this display of incompetence, the fight was going relatively well, with my party receiving only moderate, rather easy to heal damage, but dishing out quite a bit thanks to Youmu and Patchouli. Kaguya went down quite early (far too early, as it turned out), so I switched in Komachi to debilitate Eirin and Reisen as much as possible, then switched Komachi for Reimu... Surprise, Astronomical Entombing to the face!
This was the breakthrough moment of the fight, as Meiling (who wasn't even at full health) somehow managed to survive with 40 or so HP! I had to exchange the whole lineup, though, so I brought in the only reasonable reserve choices - Komachi (who barely had any spell points left), Remilia, Youmu (half SP) and Sakuya. In the meantime, Eirin blasted everyone with Mercury Sea, then Focused to prepare another Astronomical Entombing, so I had to somehow defeat her in time or face a total party kill. The remainder of the battle went along the lines of: THE WORLD, Killing Doll, Spear the Gungnir, Killing Doll, Killing Doll, last second victory. Let me tell you, this was exciting! Oh, and after a while, the game decided to scare me good and freeze for a good ten seconds. Fortunately it was just the music taking a while to change.
By the way, the Wiki recommends level 70 for this fight. Isn't that a bit excessive? I mean, the sheer amount of grinding needed to reach such a level...
Also, is the game going to get much harder from this point on?
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Eientei is pretty much the place where the difficulty spikes. Expect everything, including encounters, to be about there in difficulty from now on.
The wiki recommends overleveling for every single boss in the game. The only fight I think it's worth listening to on is the very last one in the Plus Disc, just due to the sheer amount of luck required (leveling only reduces it)
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It's my first playthrough of this game and I feel like sharing a short war story. I approached the fight against Eientein with Reimu at level 52, after two or three earlier, failed "test" attempts, somewhat prepared, though I didn't expect to find a winning strategy just yet. My lineup was Meiling-Reimu-Cirno-Patchouli. I brought Cirno in hopes of inflicting paralysis, but it didn't work and the first enemy attack of the battle was Fire Rat's Robe... So already a stupid mistake resulting in a KO'd party member.
Amazingly, after this display of incompetence, the fight was going relatively well, with my party receiving only moderate, rather easy to heal damage, but dishing out quite a bit thanks to Youmu and Patchouli. Kaguya went down quite early (far too early, as it turned out), so I switched in Komachi to debilitate Eirin and Kaguya as much as possible, then switched Komachi for Reimu... Surprise, Astronomical Entombing to the face!
This was the breakthrough moment of the fight, as Meiling (who wasn't even at full health) somehow managed to survive with 40 or so HP! I had to exchange the whole lineup, though, so I brought in the only reasonable reserve choices - Komachi (who barely had any spell points left), Remilia, Youmu (half SP) and Sakuya. In the meantime, Eirin blasted everyone with Mercury Sea, then Focused to prepare another Astronomical Entombing, so I had to somehow defeat her in time or face a total party kill. The remainder of the battle went along the lines of: THE WORLD, Killing Doll, Spear the Gungnir, Killing Doll, Killing Doll, last second victory. Let me tell you, this was exciting! Oh, and after a while, the game decided to scare me good and freeze for a good ten seconds. Fortunately it was just the music taking a while to change.
By the way, the Wiki recommends level 70 for this fight. Isn't that a bit excessive? I mean, the sheer amount of grinding needed to reach such a level...
Also, is the game going to get much harder from this point on?
You're reading the wrong wiki. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou/Dungeons/12F recommends 45-55, (No one updated the LoT pages on Wikia for like two years, so you're better off using the new wiki.)
Also, I tend to have a number of Bomb Rings on Cirno since she really makes good use of all the bonuses. I actually got her to tank through two Fire Rat's Robe that way while having bad luck with PAR - it was really funny.
Anyways, Eientei is supposed to be a climatic fight and thus hard, although there are ways to cripple them. You probably won't find any boss as challenging until the end of 16F. However, random encounters start becoming notably difficult starting from 13F, so you'll have to prepare for that. 14F in particular have really nasty encounters that are probably harder than most things you'll face in the next two floors.
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You know how almost every Touhou game has a difficulty spike at stage 4? Eientei is basically stage 4 for LoT.
As for grinding, it's not really necessary as long as you're fully exploring every floor. I always do that on all of my playthroughs, and I don't think I've ever had to grind until I reached floor 20.
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Umm, I Need Help Fighting Tam's Foe. I Used New Game+ Save File, And Im Look For An EXP Cheat, So I Could Level Them All Up, So I Could Have Enough Power To Kill All And Every Boss! And I Need Help Looking For An Encounter Cheat Also, So I Dont Have To Keep Running Into Random Enemies And Wasting SP. I Also Need Help Finding A Skill Point Cheat. I Have To Increase Their Stats Too!
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The first post has all the addresses for changing exp and skp gain after battles in a Cheat Engine table file. Those will only work for Windows XP though. Just do the tutorial that comes with Cheat Engine and then you can figure all of that out on your own for your operating system.
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Code for\OS for|WinVista|Windows7
EXP from battle|0016C648|0017C648
SKP from battle|0016C64C|0017C64C
Current EncRate|00171580|00181580
Other things that I've found are consistent memory addresses are X and Y position*, battle count and player ATB gauges.
*I found a dummied out area on 5F as a result of this :3
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Oh my, you were right about the difficulty spike. I'm currently on 16F with the Yukari battle already unlocked. My Reimu is Level 66 and I'm able to handle most random encounters without much fuss, but I'm still scared to even touch Yuyuko, Orin or Flandre (not to mention Great Stamp). Is it worth it to play it safe and farm for Tellina Shell Necklaces on 16F before attacking Yuyuko?
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Oh my, you were right about the difficulty spike. I'm currently on 16F with the Yukari battle already unlocked. My Reimu is Level 66 and I'm able to handle most random encounters without much fuss, but I'm still scared to even touch Yuyuko, Orin or Flandre (not to mention Great Stamp). Is it worth it to play it safe and farm for Tellina Shell Necklaces on 16F before attacking Yuyuko?
Yes, but I'd suggest instead farming Rings of Hades. I fought Yuyuko with a fully death immune party and though this makes her less threatening, she can still wipe an unprepared party.
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Yuyuko isn't that hard. I don't see Mokou on that list so I assume that you beat her already? If so then you'll have no problem with Yuyuko. Orin is harder though due to all those knights you have to deal with before, but your level should be good enough. Great Stamp is a wuss. Flandre though isn't, so a few more levels won't hurt. (Yukari is easier than Flandre IMHO if you have Suwako and Iku, and are abusing debuffs.)
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Code for\OS for|WinVista|Windows7
EXP from battle|0016C648|0017C648
SKP from battle|0016C64C|0017C64C
Current EncRate|00171580|00181580
Other things that I've found are consistent memory addresses are X and Y position*, battle count and player ATB gauges.
*I found a dummied out area on 5F as a result of this :3
I Tried Using The EXP And Skill Points Cheat, But Neither Of Them Work, Only The Encounter Worked ... Any Solutions? ???
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Okay, so I've currently hit 12f, and I'm a little stuck with the whole lock puzzle thing. But suffice to say, i have 2, 3, and 4 turned off. I still can't find 1.
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Video guide
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pdxdem8PnE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2KreOCa6QI
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Video guide
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pdxdem8PnE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2KreOCa6QI
I'd figured it out the night before, but thanks anyway.
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So Mokou, Orin, Yuyuko and the Great Stamp all proved to be farily easy to beat, especially Yuyuko who was just unable to deal any serious damage outside of her opening spell. Kaguya's Foe, however, is cheating! I can't beat it if it keeps using Flowing Hellfire earlier than it should and killing my offensive characters that way. The fight would be a piece of cake if it wasn't for that. Am I supposed to wait until much later, or what?
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Make sure you have four party members out every time it gets a turn and it will never cast hellfire early.
...is what I would like to say but when I played through that part a few weeks earlier, I noticed that it still casts hellfire early even with me putting a full party out every turn he gets. I'm not really sure what's the cause of that so you'll just have to wing it.
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Make sure you have four party members out every time it gets a turn and it will never cast hellfire early.
...is what I would like to say but when I played through that part a few weeks earlier, I noticed that it still casts hellfire early even with me putting a full party out every turn he gets. I'm not really sure what's the cause of that so you'll just have to wing it.
It's really annoying though. My plan was to stack a lot of fire resistance equipment on Tenshi, Meiling and Reimu so they can tank the Flowing Hellfires rather comfortably, heal with Reimu, switch in a nuke character along with Iku to deal damage faster, then switch them back out for Reimu before another Flowing Hellfire comes and repeat. The whole plan falls apart when Kaguya's Foe suddenly decides to kill both Iku and the nuker with an early Flowing Hellfire.
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I've never had a Foe use Flowing Hellfire early when I've had four characters out every time it had a turn. Doing that will at least minimize the chances of seeing an early one.
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Yeah, I've done maybe half a dozen playthroughs already and still haven't seen any of the Foes use an unexpected Flowing Hellfire early, so all I can say is to keep at it. Even if they're some freak chance of it cheating, it should still be consistent the majority of the time, provided you execute the accepted strategy correctly.
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Have the draft runs all stopped? I admit, I haven't really played much since finishing the main game and doing a few of the V2 bosses.
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Have the draft runs all stopped? I admit, I haven't really played much since finishing the main game and doing a few of the V2 bosses.
Mine is still in progress, I just haven't been able to record much lately. Ozzy is uploading but not posting here, and Withhelde/koakoa I believe finished already.
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Got a research paper due this friday.
Dissertation paper due in 3 weeks.
And keen to get back to work on my Diablo2 mod.
I have recovered my game from my crashed PC but haven't felt like playing it since the crash. I'll find time to complete my run though.
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Mine is still in progress, I just haven't been able to record much lately. Ozzy is uploading but not posting here, and Withhelde/koakoa I believe finished already.
And mine died because I literally had to wipe my ENTIRE COMPUTER because virus.
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Mine is progressing slower due to it being an LP and slower still due to school finals 2 weeks ago. And now Youtube has decided that my current video format is not supported anymore.
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Sometimes Youtube says that and I just retry the upload and it works.
I used FRAPS and Windows Movie Maker for my LP of this game awhile back if that helps.
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On the note of meiling and youmu missing animations, the fix is simple or requires alot of work?
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Hello! I recently started playing this again and wanted to go through with a specific team (never got too far in my previous run before I lost the game in a crash, but meh), but I wasn't really sure how to build the characters for it, as I noticed I'm kinda lacking in some aspects with it, namely buffs and healing, and wanted to ask for opinions before I got too far with it. I haven't decided whether to try using the team on a New Game+ or just do a normal playthrough and unlock everyone normally (though I might end up doing the latter, then the former, rather then one or the other), by the way.
Marisa
Remilia
Sakuya
Patchouli
Meiling
Youmu
Eirin
Rin
Flandre
Yuyuko
Rinnosuke
Utsuho
Now, I read through some of the previous threads to get a decent idea of what I should be aiming for, but the lack of buffs and healing makes me uncertain about what holds true for a team like this or not. As Eirin and Meiling are literally the only characters here that are capable of healing, I'm a little unsure about my ability to weather attacks, and Rinnosuke is the only character capable of buffing the team's defense (though Remilia can buff her own defenses, of course). I think Eirin can help mitigate this with her debuffs, but they're only -18%, have high delay, inefficient for damage, and prevent her from healing, too.
On the side of buffs, Sakuya can use Lunar Clock to buff everyone's speed and Rinnosuke has World-Shaking Military Rule, but the former, as I understand, lacks usefulness later in the game due to how speed is handled, and the latter is of course one-time use, and a one-time use spell is kinda unhelpful for defensive play. The severe lack of buffs is making me consider using Remilia as my primary tank and Meiling/Eirin to heal her, but I'm concerned I'm wasting Remilia's potential here.
Now, I'm a little concerned about damage due to the lack of offensive buffs, but I gave that side of things some thought, and I THINK it's not that bad. I don't know how much damage a tanky Remilia can dish out, but if she turns out bulky enough to survive well with an attack oriented build, then it should be fine. Rin can debuff defense, so I figure my physical side of things is covered, and World-Shaking Military Rule should be able to make a significant difference in my offense, I think.
Outside of that, I'm also lacking in status effects and I don't have much in the way of debuffs (and of useful ones, Rin is probably the only one in the group, though at least she can poison too, even if that isn't helpful postgame), though I'm not sure if it's worth worrying about. Certainly, if I play the whole game with this team, it might cause issues, but I'm not too worried about it.
So, with that, I do have a couple of questions. I have a strong feeling that, due to the lack of buffs available to this team, strategic usage of World-Shaking Military Rule is going to be very important to deciding fights, whether it be damage racing from the beginning or pushing forward in the last bit, where my damage might otherwise not be enough (I imagine a fully powered Master Spark paired with a 100% buff is going to be pretty), but I can't figure out an efficient way to use it defensively too. Are my concerns about defensive play overblown? I think this is a pretty offensive oriented team outside of the bulky attackers (and Meiling/maybe Eirin), but I don't know whether Remilia and Meiling will be enough, especially considering Meiling will likely not be buffed (I might have to use Colorful Rain a lot with her), or if Meiling will even be necessary in the first place. If an offensive Remilia is tanky enough, I was considering making a full blown offense team with Meiling as a backup tank, then adjusting each character accordingly. Eirin should be enough to heal Remilia occasionally, and she might even be able to dish out decent damage, if not impressive amounts.
In addition to those questions, I have some more character specific ones.
Is Marisa with an emphasis on SP recovery% gear a good way to build her? I was thinking she could be brought in more frequently to use Master Spark, which would probably deal less damage than a build that optimizes her Magic stat, but my hope is that the increased usage will make up for that, though I put Marisa at more risk doing this if I use it improperly.
How do I optimize Eirin's Hourai Elixir usage? I've read it's great for Komachi (but also read that it isn't enough by itself), but I've also read that focusing on Eirin's defense and mind is preferable to her HP, which gives off a conflicting message here (Komachi's huge amount of HP means a percentage based heal is pretty significant if other heals fail to heal that much, but boosting Eirin's defenses means that she takes less damage and the percentage becomes more lenient, since it can be outclassed by more potent, non-fixed healers). I imagine that I can't generalize all of the characters I would target it with, since everyone's defensive stats are rather balanced besides Sakuya's, who is the closest to Komachi stat-wise (lowest defenses of my team for a character that I would probably have a tank, given that buffing her with World-Shaking Military Rule would be kinda wasteful due to Killing Doll's formula in comparison to my other heavy hitters). In practice, I'm just not sure which way would be best to go.
Rinnosuke, outside of Remilia and Meiling, as far as I can tell, may be my most important character, due to World-Shaking Military Rule being my only significant team buff. While I know he's going to be important, I still can't decide on how to build him. I see him as a character that can be an effective offensive member and defensive member, but only one of the two, and they both have different uses. For early use in a fight, I imagine the latter will be more important, since Rinnosuke is going to be staying for a while and he might be more useful as a switcher, but if I'm damage racing a boss, I don't know if I want to waste Rinnosuke's buffs at the end of a fight with tank-oriented stats. I think it would be more efficient to use an offensive build, but I don't know if I actually need the extra offense, really. In the end, I don't know if defensive play is even viable with this team though, so I could just be overthinking things here.
Anyway...that certainly ended up being a lot more long-winded than I intended. Any feedback would be much appreciated~
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There's quite a lot in your post so I'll try answer what I can. Parallaxel will probably give a better answer later when he sees the thread.
Negligible first point: Any 12 characters can finish the game. Level enough and it's doable.
I'm going to assume the listed team is who you want to use. In terms of defensive/offensive buffs, you don't have any directly dedicated ones. Rinnosuke's buff is a single shot thing that's more an all-in move than a reliable buff. Meiling only becomes a viable healer very much into postgame. Eirin's heal is too inefficient compared to the other healer options in the game. But in the absence of them, you can still heal your team via swapping characters out in the fights. So since your team has no real buffs or heals, make your playstyle not reliant on them.
Meiling and Remilia can both be great tanks, but Meiling is far better because she does it better and can do more than just tank. Remilia if built for tanking, won't be able to keep up the damage output later in the game. The same for if you want her to deal damage. In your lineup, Youmu will be your main physical damage dealer. Sakuya can do it too but takes a lot of investment. As for magic damage, you don't have a great selection of spells but you do have something in each element. Patchoulli carrying half of them will hinder you though.
The only status effect the player needs most in the game is PAR. You don't have any in the team, just play without it.
Marisa needs her offensive stat more than her recovery. Since she's only needed in the fight for a single shot, by the time you cycle through all your other burst damage dealers, she'll have naturally recovered back to full anyway.
Eirin's heal is optimized by using Komachi. Everyone else's HP pool is too small compared to Komachi that the overheal is a waste of time. Eirin gets suggested to build defensive because raising her offensive ability is not worth it and her heal is not dependent on Eirin's stats.
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The runthrough I'm using has a support-Rinnosuke, and he can tank decently well if you build him for defense. WSMR, though only a 1-shot buff, is incredibly useful-use it whenever a hard phase is about to start. Flandre will also be a heavy physical attacker alongside Youmu, but Youmu with a decent HP investment can actually survive a lot of attacks.
I think the early-game will be the hardest part for you, get to the point where people have about 160 speed (off the top of my head) when the heal-by-switch-abuse becomes actually effective: I remember losing Reimu first turn then going on to win via abusing that.
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@Pesco
Ah, yeah, I thought that would be obvious but looking at my post again the lack of context makes that list rather random, eheheh.
Hmm, so switching out will be sufficient for healing? I was initially concerned that it wouldn't be effective enough, but if it will work, that's a significant relief on the defensive side of things.
So even with Remilia spamming Curse of Vlad Tepes to buff herself, Meiling without buffs (besides a possible World-Shaking Military Rule) will be a superior tank? That's another good thing to know indeed, I had doubts that she'd be able to handle herself without buffs. I don't need to be concerned about that then, and Remilia can be an important attacker instead, though if I understand you correctly Curse of Vlad Tepes won't be enough to let her handle attacks in late postgame? That concerns me a little, but I think it won't be too problematic.
I had a feeling I was overlooking Youmu, but I'm not sure whether to go for offense or defense with Sakuya. Will she be better off as a damage dealer rather than a tank like I initially thought? I really thought Killing Doll would only be useful if she's buffed, but if it's still the most optimal way to use her, I'll definitely try to incorporate that into my strategy.
Hmm, I had considered the lack of magic but didn't see it as a problem...I haven't decided whether to just use Patchouli as another character to switch in for damage and switch out or try to raise her Mind stat to deal with magical attacks and keep her in. As for my other magical attackers (excluding Marisa since you already answered my question about her), I guess Yuyuko should simply be dealing damage with Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, but I'm a little unsure about Utsuho, since she can debuff and buff herself. The self-buff seems bad due to the negative effects, but the debuff helps all of my magical attackers, and might be really nice for Yuyuko or Marisa to take advantage of. I guess it's better to build her for Magic either way though, since she's so fragile, it's really just trying to decide on how to use her.
Hmm, I see, so it isn't about the healing itself but the overheal? Hmm, I'm still not sure if that warrants adjusting my tanks around it or not, but I suppose it would be better to play specifically to a character's strengths and not worrying about maximizing Hourai Elixir, then, since it won't be worth it? A little uncertain about what to do with her now, but I suppose that's normal given that everyone says she's bad (and honestly, I've always thought she was rather subpar, but I'd like to use her anyway). Anyway, thank you for the input, it was very helpful!
@I have no name
Hmm, should I build Rinnosuke defensively then? I haven't determined the most efficient way to use World-Shaking Military Rule yet (It seems like there isn't really a hard rule for it in this kind of team anyway, since it's so lacking in buffs a single-time use buff with that kind of potency makes a huge difference depending on when it's used). I had actually given a lot of thought to Flandre before, but Youmu's superior defense would make her more useful for staying in to deal damage, yeah. Should I focus on attack with most of my level-up points and use the remainder for HP, or focus on her defense or another stat instead, or split it between those three? I can see her attack, HP, and defense are basically her most noteworthy stats (with attack being her primary appeal), so choosing between those three stats seems best, but if I focus too much on attack she'll be a tad too fragile, and too much on HP/defense will worsen her excellent damage, so figuring out a good balance between these stats seems to be the basic goal to aim for with her.
Overall, I guess this is what I'm looking at:
Marisa: Heavy/Complete emphasis on Magic for high powered Master Sparks.
Remilia: Heavy emphasis on Attack, maybe all level-up points into that stat?
Sakuya: Probably an Attack oriented build, if not a tank? Needs more consideration.
Patchouli: Undecided between splitting Magic and Mind or focusing on one of the two. Needs more consideration.
Meiling: Tank.
Youmu: HP/Attack/maybe Defense. Primarily physical damage dealer with some bulk.
Eirin: No idea, tank? She seems worthless for anything else.
Rin: So far nobody commented on her or Yuyuko, which I guess means nothing specific needs to be said about her? I'm certainly interested in seeing if Vengeful Cannibal Spirit's defense debuff is worth it or if Rin is yet another damage dealer in this party formation. I imagine she'd be pretty nice with World-Shaking Military Rule due to Blazing Wheel, too.
Flandre: Glass cannon. I don't see any other way to use her.
Yuyuko: Generic magical damage source, really.
Rinnosuke: Probably a tanky build?
Utsuho: Magic oriented build, all three of her moves look useful depending on the situation (besides maybe Giga Flare, what with that mind ignoring). Notably my only source of damage that ignores defense.
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Personally I'd say to go tanky with Remilia. You have okay sources of damage output among the rest of your team, and given the lack of defensive buffs, I think you'll want to make sure Remilia is as durable as possible. Otherwise your only other true tank would be Meiling (maybe Rinnosuke?), and she's never really going to have buffs going for her. You'll probably want two really good tanks so you have one to use while the other is recovering in the back.
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@I have no name
Hmm, should I build Rinnosuke defensively then? I haven't determined the most efficient way to use World-Shaking Military Rule yet (It seems like there isn't really a hard rule for it in this kind of team anyway, since it's so lacking in buffs a single-time use buff with that kind of potency makes a huge difference depending on when it's used). I had actually given a lot of thought to Flandre before, but Youmu's superior defense would make her more useful for staying in to deal damage, yeah. Should I focus on attack with most of my level-up points and use the remainder for HP, or focus on her defense or another stat instead, or split it between those three? I can see her attack, HP, and defense are basically her most noteworthy stats (with attack being her primary appeal), so choosing between those three stats seems best, but if I focus too much on attack she'll be a tad too fragile, and too much on HP/defense will worsen her excellent damage, so figuring out a good balance between these stats seems to be the basic goal to aim for with her.
Youmu can be a second slot damage dealer pretty effectively if you put some points into defense and especially HP. Flandre is a switch-in nuker (she also benefits amazingly from WSMR). Note that Yuyuko will be useless in some fights, most notably against herself, except as a tank/switcher due to being all Spirit. Marisa suffers the same problem, and Utsuho does to a lesser extent with MYS and FIR/MYS.
Rinnosuke can still attack with a tanky build with Scarlet Gold Sword-since it pierces it will probably be helpful in a lot of places, though Silent Selene is all-around better for the job except in terms of user-tankiness.
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If nothing else, the thought of playing without any def/mnd buffs AND no healer (Eirin's is very slow and only heals half HP) makes me want to cry inside. That's a party that's looking at unavoidable big grinding spots later in the game (And I don't mean Plus Disk later, either). And then no atk buffs. ;_;
Def/Mnd debuffs are super insignificant against enemies that don't have a superhigh value in either of them. The damage increase in your attacks is otherwise very small.
Also, if you want a character to be an attacker, you want to go all out with ATK or MAG, example: Orin. Def/Mnd is only for characters you plan on actually staying out a lot of the time during bosses (Meiling, Remi). Sakuya will -not- be a good attacker without buffs, due to Killing Doll's bad def pierce formula; she's only passable even with them, and when they're gone the damage drastically nosedives much moreso then other character's. So you'll probably want to spec her out to be a tank that uses speed up buffs.
When you're deciding whether to level HP or Def or Mnd on characters you want to be tanky... ignore HP. And probably concentrate on whichever other stat is better. Youmu has rock bottom MND, for example, so using level up boosts on it is a waste of time; Meiling's isn't horrible, but the return on Def is vastly superior. (Of course, with SKILL POINT levelups, you'll level them all for obvious reasons)
Eirin's attacks are worthless outside of late plus disk (Where she can spam Astronomical Entombing) so yeah, tank.
Really though, I'd extremely recommend throwing Reimu in there or something. Probably in place of Eirin, who is almost dead weight except for being the -only- healer you have. While Utsuho isn't entirely worthless in this party since she's the only one who can get buffed MAG, her attacks are insanely expensive when you're not in plus disk... and still aren't that strong. So... :T
tl;dr You COULD play through with this team, but it'd be a lot harder then the game needs to be (And it's already not easy) and would inevitably lead to a lot of grinding sessions simply because there would be bosses you could -not- manage to take the hits from otherwise, and don't have any good damage rush or Tenshi cheese strats either. (Tenshi can, quite honestly, take so little damage from several bosses that you can try to cheese with her sitting out alone and switching one slot in and out with characters- it just takes forever and is a pain, and with a bit of bad luck goes horribly wrong)
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Oh, good. These threads are still going.
Yeah, I'm giving this another run. Last time I got to 30F and then lost interest at the grind wall. Hopefully this time I'll be able to get through 30F. No special gimmicks or handicaps. Just me using my previous knowledge of the game to venture to WINNER and defeat him at last.
Currently exploring: 10F. Everyone's favorite Iron Maze.
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After not playing Lot for a year and more I decided to come back and start with some of the characters I like (Raaaannnn <3) and some other to help me in the run. Sadly I have forgot a lot about the game so if you could please help me with some doubts . .. :V
1-Overall who ends up being better as a physical damage nuker and in trash clearing... ?Nitori with her OP cannon or flandre with her OP stats?
2-I have too many physycal damage and want to bring a magical damage dealer with some kind of debuffs (Maybe Alice) but im not sure if I should kick out Suwako or Mystia (the later could be the best choice since I have Aya and I dont like the overpopulation of birds in my town, logic)
3-I dont have but a single idea of how I should build Rumia, plain as that :I
4-For Suwako portrait I got the one called "Pyonta man" (http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3620/suwakostand.png) and it really turns me on ?Does this mean I'm gay?
._.
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After not playing Lot for a year and more I decided to come back and start with some of the characters I like (Raaaannnn <3) and some other to help me in the run. Sadly I have forgot a lot about the game so if you could please help me with some doubts . .. :V
1-Overall who ends up being better as a physical damage nuker and in trash clearing... ?Nitori with her OP cannon or flandre with her OP stats?
2-I have too many physycal damage and want to bring a magical damage dealer with some kind of debuffs (Maybe Alice) but im not sure if I should kick out Suwako or Mystia (the later could be the best choice since I have Aya and I dont like the overpopulation of birds in my town, logic)
3-I dont have but a single idea of how I should build Rumia, plain as that :I
4-For Suwako portrait I got the one called "Pyonta man" (http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3620/suwakostand.png) and it really turns me on ?Does this mean I'm gay?
._.
1. Nitori no contest; she easily beats out Flan for raw damage (at least with how I used and built Flan since Leviathan is basically useless outside of specific setups) and still decent for randoms (Leviathan is still basically useless without a setup).
2. Well, both are just really good and really should always be in the party when you need them (Suwako moreso for bosses and Mystichi mainly for popcorn); hell, I'd replace Aya with Alice just because Aya never really shines much until possibly postgame).
3.Pure mag; Rumia is actually fairly decent and a fine addition to most teams.
4. He is handsome and a bit sexy; that's all that matters~
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Walked into Tenshi with my draft run unprepared. How do I play this game again?
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2-I have too many physycal damage and want to bring a magical damage dealer with some kind of debuffs (Maybe Alice) but im not sure if I should kick out Suwako or Mystia (the later could be the best choice since I have Aya and I dont like the overpopulation of birds in my town, logic)
If magic damage is what you want, then Alice is a poor choice. Despite relying on her MAG stat for her damage formulas, Alice's two strongest spells (Return Inanimate and Little Legion) both target enemy DEF, so they're effectively physical attacks.
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If magic damage is what you want, then Alice is a poor choice. Despite relying on her MAG stat for her damage formulas, Alice's two strongest spells (Return Inanimate and Little Legion) both target enemy DEF, so they're effectively physical attacks.
Well, for pure Mag damage, nothing can really beat the sheer brokeness of Kaguya.
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Recompiled a cheat table which should work for win7. Has addresses for all the items, skp pool, skp/exp gain, battle count, game timer, encounter rate and shortcut switches for 10-12F and 13F.
Seems like the cheat table isn't transferable or even reusable.
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Technically, Kaguya can count as non-attribute damage when it comes to physical/magical; she doesn't factor in any defensive stats unless you use Dragon Necklace, which is only considerable against enemies with large resists against FIR/NTR/SPI.
Rumia is kind of eh when you don't need her MND-ignoring move for some enemy, especially due to how many monsters/bosses resist mystic (Probably because of MARISA :T), but towards final boss time (and especially once you're in Plus Disk) she expands into her true role as a jack of all trades, able to decently nuke with Moonlight Ray, decently ignore defensive stats for high def/mnd enemies with Dark Side of the Moon, and most importantly, decently heal the entire party with Demarcation (Which is by far the main reason you'd actually use her apart from liking Rumia; to help back up Reimu in the multitarget healing department)
She's good at the earlygame and endgame, but kind of awful for most of inbetween (save for against the occasional high def/mnd enemies), especially because of the common MYS resistance neutering her.
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Thanks for all the input to everyone that responded to me. I decided to re-evaluate my team, with this being the current result:
Marisa
Remilia
Patchouli
Sakuya
Meiling
Youmu
Reisen
Mokou
Rin
Flandre
Kaguya
Rinnosuke
This time Meiling's the only healer, but Reisen can buff herself and Kaguya can provide buffs, so it's not quite as unbalanced as the previous one, I think. I still have issues with figuring out how to build some of the characters for this specific formation, but I think I'll be happy with this team once that's all figured out. For the record, I do plan on grinding a lot for equipment and Skill Points (the former is basically my favorite part of RPGs, and the latter is just a side effect of the former anyway), so that won't be a problem. Primarily, what I'm most curious about the most optimal way to manage level up points and equipment.
So far, reading through, I'm getting conflicting messages about how to build characters defensively. I guess that's only natural since it's a subject where opinion matters a lot, so I guess I have to figure out for myself what to do. More specifically, I'd like to ask if Youmu is better off focusing on only Defense, HP + Defense, or Attack + Defense, since that's the primary thing I see where information is conflicting.
Should I build Patchouli for mostly/all Magic, mostly/all Mind, or a mixture of the two? I figure that, due to my lack of healing, I should aim to take as little damage as possible, so maxing Mind might be preferable, but I don't know if it's more viable to avoid taking damage or try to end fights as quickly as possible, which would involve focusing on Magic. A mixture compromises both sides, giving benefits of both but not to the same extent as going all the way, and from what I've read specializing is usually preferable, but it's still an option available to me and should be considered.
What stats should I emphasize with Reisen? I understand her most prominent traits are her self buffing and debuffing abilities, but whether I should focus on bulkiness or damage is something I'm rather uncertain about, especially given my party setup (I doubt very many people played with as little healing ability as I intend to, so whether the same ideas apply or not is something I'm doubtful about). I would expect focusing on Magic to be the best idea since she does have decent damage output and her defensive stats aren't that great compared to Remilia or Meiling, but I'm not sure whether bulkiness is more of a priority or not, again because of the lack of healing.
I understand Mokou is a bulky magical attacker, but to what extent should I concentrate on the two aspects that describes? On the one hand, looking at her stats it seems like she has workable defensive stats, but I've consistently read that her damage output is rather lackluster, leading me to be concerned about whether she'll be up to par if I focus on her defenses. A mixture seems like the solution, but it poses the risk of making her bad at both taking hits and dealing them...so I don't know what to do.
As for the others, I think I understand what would be the best way to go about using them
Marisa: Damage dealer with Master Spark
Remilia: 2nd slot tank that will buff with Curse of Vlad Tepes and provide supplemental damage occasionally
Sakuya: Defensive build, main use is buffing other character's speed (If Kaguya's attack buff makes Killing Doll usable, maybe she can go full offense, though I think Buddha's Stone Bowl is kinda wasted on Sakuya, since the speed buff can be better handled by Sakuya anyway)
Meiling: 1st slot tank that can heal, might be a competent healer late postgame with Buddha's Stone Bowl support
Rin: Attack oriented build, primary use is attacking, Vengeful Cannibal's Spirit provides supplemental debuffs
Flandre: Attack build. Hurr.
Kaguya: Defensive build so she can sit out and hand out buffs. Maybe Magic oriented to spam Hourai Barrage like most people do with her, reading the thread, but I think I need to prioritize buffing with this selection of characters, since no one else in it is as good as her at it.
Rinnosuke: Tanky character, I think. Might get switched up if he's no longer optimally a tank in this current setup, but as it stands he seems mostly there to provide buffs at key moments in a fight, then offer a supplemental source of damage in Scarlet Gold Sword, when he isn't helping switch characters out.
Again, any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help so far.
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This time Meiling's the only healer
Meiling has 2 healing moves, a good self-heal and a status healing move that is useful for restoring very small amount of HP. This is a horrible idea, you really kind of need either Reimu, Sanae or Minoriko here.
Reisen can buff herself and Kaguya can provide buffs, so it's not quite as unbalanced as the previous one, I think.
Reisen's self-buff turns her from a solid C to an A rank as of the midgame when she can spam the buff. Until then she's kind of underpowered. Kaguya has massive SP costs, so it's the same idea. Reisen is more useful here as a debuffer and Kaguya as a nuker. Again, you kind of need healing.
So far, reading through, I'm getting conflicting messages about how to build characters defensively. I guess that's only natural since it's a subject where opinion matters a lot, so I guess I have to figure out for myself what to do. More specifically, I'd like to ask if Youmu is better off focusing on only Defense, HP + Defense, or Attack + Defense, since that's the primary thing I see where information is conflicting.
Attack on level-ups. skill points should focus more on HP so she can survive moderate magic attacks (mine could survive Flowing Hellfire, a very powerful fire attack by sheer virtue of HP and affinity). Though pure attack or attack+defense can also work, I've experienced great success with attack focus with HP emphasis in skill points.
Should I build Patchouli for mostly/all Magic, mostly/all Mind, or a mixture of the two?
MAGIC NUUUUUUUUKE. Seriously, her MND is high enough off natural level-ups and skill points and her HP is so low that Meiling could probably keep her healed. Not that I'm saying Meiling as a healer is a good idea, just that Silent Selene and Royal Flare are your friends.
What stats should I emphasize with Reisen? I understand her most prominent traits are her self buffing and debuffing abilities, but whether I should focus on bulkiness or damage is something I'm rather uncertain about
Magic and speed. Do not underestimate speed. I gave Youmu some speed boosts since her being slow is ehhhhh (and faster characters are always a good thing).
I understand Mokou is a bulky magical attacker, but to what extent should I concentrate on the two aspects that describes? On the one hand, looking at her stats it seems like she has workable defensive stats, but I've consistently read that her damage output is rather lackluster, leading me to be concerned about whether she'll be up to par if I focus on her defenses. A mixture seems like the solution, but it poses the risk of making her bad at both taking hits and dealing them...so I don't know what to do.
From my experiences, Mokou would be better being switched out for...Reimu/Sanae/Minoriko. She's not very tanky, could hardly survive in the second slot for me, dealt almost no damage, etc. etc. She's fine if you can buff her with Iku, but then again so is everyone and she still gets seriously outperformed by Orin, who also has a composite Fire attack with no drawback, higher formula, lower cost, less delay and on a higher speed character! Seeing as you have Orin already, Mokou is kind of obsolete and should be replaced by a healer.
Marisa: Damage dealer with Master Spark
Remilia: 2nd slot tank that will buff with Curse of Vlad Tepes and provide supplemental damage occasionally
Sakuya: Defensive build, main use is buffing other character's speed (If Kaguya's attack buff makes Killing Doll usable, maybe she can go full offense, though I think Buddha's Stone Bowl is kinda wasted on Sakuya, since the speed buff can be better handled by Sakuya anyway)
Meiling: 1st slot tank that can heal, might be a competent healer late postgame with Buddha's Stone Bowl support
Remilia can be a first slot attacking tank sometimes, but an attack build is probably best. Kaguya would not make Killing Doll that great unless you stacked it many times, Meiling is accurate. (though SHE IS NOT A HEALER) Also don't underestimate the power of Asteroid Belt, or even Magic Missile.
Rin: Attack oriented build, primary use is attacking, Vengeful Cannibal's Spirit provides supplemental debuffs
Flandre: Attack build. Hurr.
Rinnosuke: Tanky character, I think. Might get switched up if he's no longer optimally a tank in this current setup, but as it stands he seems mostly there to provide buffs at key moments in a fight, then offer a supplemental source of damage in Scarlet Gold Sword, when he isn't helping switch characters out.
These are all correct.
Again, any comments or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help so far.
No problem.
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How should I build Yuyuko? For the post-expansion?
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For Yuyuko, I would go either pure speed or pure magic. I guess if your speed is high enough, regular enemies will never get their turn, but yeah, that would be some massive speed levels.
@LonelyGaruga: Not having a real healer is kind of bad, but hey, if you think you can do it, there is no harm in trying. You will need to be well versed in switching with only 1 healer.
For a general rule of thumb, if a character has a high multiplier go for pure attack. Youmu has a high multiplier with her skills, so pure attack is good. Remilia has a so so multiplier, so you can choose however you want to build her. Meiling, just go defense or hp.
I suggest building Patchouli as a Mind tank, since you don't seem to have any mind tanks. You'll suffer quite a bit against magic based enemies without a mind tank of some sort.
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Hm, sorry for the infrequent replies, I've been a little busy with college and other stuff.
Anyway...the team I posted earlier is definitely what I'm going to use (trying to use favorites here), so I'm not going to substitute anyone out or anything. Well, I was considering using Eirin for this team too, but judging from the general opinion on her that wouldn't be recommended. She's not a good healer anyway. I wouldn't mind having to switch around a lot to manage healing, though something I'm considering is that if I focus on defense more than would otherwise be recommended, the damage will be easier to deal with because there will (more or less) be less damage taken (this is especially what's making me think of having Remilia as a tank and Patchouli as Mind oriented, since they should be able to soak up hits pretty well), so Meiling's minor heals should be able to manage the damage relatively well. I'm not sure whether reducing damage so significantly is actually possible, however. I was thinking Buddha's Stone Bowl can help get characters out of tight situations in addition to the obvious offensive utility it provides, but should I build her for offensive purposes like recommended? I'm not really sure giving my only buffer that kind of role is the best course of action, but Hourai Barrage is pretty damaging...I guess it's really a matter of figuring out what's feasible/recommended to do. Truthfully speaking, I think I've more or less figured out a basic course of action that I like. It probably requires refining, but I'm starting to see a goal to aim for now. Thanks for the help everyone.
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Focusing more on defense has a couple of downsides. For one, bosses will live longer from lower damage, thus dealing out more hits. Another thing is piercing attacks: defense/mind doesn't really help much. You'd have to grind A LOT in order to beat the game without a healer, having Meiling as primary healer is a very bad idea as her heal is single target, maybe 10% max HP restored at 50% delay IIRC.
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Meiling's non-self-heal is VERY weak until expansion where it only becomes okay.
And Kaguya, while having a buff, is NOT a buffer. Her buff's point is giving people another turn, and is nowhere near sufficient for buffing stats.
You could win with that party, but you'd have to do insane amounts of grinding. If you just fit in a few key support characters, everything becomes fine. Reimu/Minoriko are great for healing and def/mnd buffing (You can get by without both, but Reimu has a hard time with SP until late in the game- could likely just use Minoriko for awhile and then later in the game when Reimu can handle it, switch Minoriko for a favored character you wanted instead), and Iku is a fabulous MND tank with faaaabulous ATK/MAG buff capability (Although it means you have to resist PAR on your nukers, since her buff does that). You can get by without Iku fine though, she just makes bosses more managable. Taking a character that will keep your team from falling flat on their face, however, is not very optional if you don't want to make things vastly more painful.
This game uses subtraction formulas. If you have 50% more def/mnd, that makes a WORLD of difference in how much damage you take. Attacks that would one-shot you become not terribly scary. Not having them in a capability where you can use them often in bosses translates into you having to do an obscene amount of grinding to get the required def/mnd through leveling instead, which is painful and boring and gross.
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I'm sorry for doubleposting but
(http://puu.sh/1tCm4)
who can resist PCB demo art set
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So I played the game to the 20f, started to get to the plus disk content and then got distracted by other stuff. As such, I need to get back into the game before I can do the grinding, so I wanted to have to play through the game with a challenge party. I was originally just going to use the party member I didn't use the first time, but that left me with only Erin and Sanae for healing, and as Sanae is also my only all purpose buffer, she's a little too busy. Thus I want a suggested team that I could use.
I'll also count plus disk members in the possible roster too.
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Wondering if anyone had a save file at 30f they could spare--I found one in the previous forum but the link no longer worked. I'm interested in trying out some team combinations and seeing how they pan out in late plus disk, but I've only made it as far as beating Maribel...
who can resist PCB demo art set
It's amazing how nostalgic and tacky it makes the game look. Bonus points if you replace all the portraits with original ZUN art. :V
. . .so I wanted to have to play through the game with a challenge party.
Red eyes team! Aya, Iku, Kanako, Keine, Komachi, Minoriko, Remi, Orin, Tenshi, Reisen, Yuugi, and Rumia. Okay, so I left out a few, but this is what I narrowed it down to.
Tenshi is the main tank :derp:
Minoriko/mag buffed Rumia for heals
Keine and Iku/Aya? for buffs
Kanako, Orin, and Rumia are mag attackers
Komachi, Aya, Remi, Orin, Reisen, Yuugi are all atk-based attackers
No Sanae or Eirin though, but I'd say you could easily make do with Mino and Roomia.
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cheese the game with this team.
Meiling
Suwako
Iku
Orin
Cirno
Wriggle
Minoriko
Mokou
Flandre
Rumia
Reisen
Kanako
yeah, this is pretty monster - something I was told to take for a let's play I never did, after all. it's actually pretty powerful. orin/Flandre - iku combination is beast. maybe changing a character or two because fire element seems pretty darn abundant in this team. well. good luck on the plus disk content.
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Just tried the Cheese team and...dang. They wiped the floor with the final boss. Iron rings paralysis + buffed leviathans = LOTS of damage. I'm very tempted to add Aya though, REALLY fast Leviathan!
Edit: Hmmm... I think I'll mix the two teams:
Wriggle, Minoriko, Mokou ,Flandre, Aya, Iku, Tenshi, Reisen, Rumia, Orin, Meiling, Keine
Though I might do some editing, I'm not so sure about Meling
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yeah, that team's pretty darn powerful. I don't think you'll have many problems with this, even if you choose to take aya instead of mokou, reisen or whoever you wanna put away.
@ traubela if I uploaded the correct file, this should be it. I have no idea what I was doing, though.
do note that this is from my first playthrough, so some characters are rather botched up (like suwako being half-assedly trained on both magic and physical) http://www.mediafire.com/?8u5nhtdh4do6qto
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http://www.mediafire.com/?8u5nhtdh4do6qto
I tried putting it in a ng+ save and a normal empty save, but to no avail. Did you mean to include more than just the F00 file or am I just doing it wrong?
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Sounds like you did it wrong. Replace the folder entirely, don't touch the individual files.
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After giving the team a go, I've decided to drop Meiling because she not that useful. So I'm looking for another option, I was thinking Yuka cause she would both deal damage and be able to take a bit of damage, but Utsuho follow the idea of fire and massive amounts of damage. I'm also thinking of having another disabler, like Cirno. I just don't know which to chose, the logical, the fun, or the crazy.
By the way, Reisen's attacks are magic based. (despite all logic, though I'm not sure logic applies in this case)
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Pesco: The download link leads directly to a single F00 file, so I can't exactly do any folder replacing here.
Pandaology: Reisen's really mag based? I've been increasing her attack the whole time....
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I knew this wouldn work :V I just thought the newest file would be the latest save, tehe. well, I put my save folder in a rar and uploaded it. probably should have done that from the beginning, but thinking at 3.30 am isn't my strong point. let's hope this'll work http://www.mediafire.com/?g9w3p6tceijq63d
also: meiling not useful? she's a fantastic character. plus you absolutely NEED a tank. if you go into the eiki fight without komachi or meiling, you will never get past her. never. Tenshi just doesn't have the HP to take last judgement. I wouldn't get okuu. her damage output is terrible and the only thing she's got going for her is giga flare's MND ignore. but th formula on it is bad, so it doesn't help much, either.
if you want someone to cripple, there is no thing such as renko :V maybe the best character in the game in properly used. mystia is a fantastic choice for a supporter, too.
I will be entirely honest and say what I think: if I wanted to put someone out of that team, I'd choose mokou. she's awesome for normal encounters, but is lacking against bosses for the most part. maybe wriggle, considering her poison loses effectiveness the more you progress in the game. your current team is powerful in itself, but ineffective against bosses who resist FIR and MYS. if you were fighting Flandre with a team like that, you'd be fucked. might wanna balance things out a bit, rather than just throw another FIR/MYS type into the fray.
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Nah, its that I've pretty much always used her, and she doesn't really fit the teams strategy beyond being a lot of Hp.
Actually, I just looked at the wiki and found that Demarcation only remove debuffs, not status effects. I guess I'm sticking with this team then.
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Sakurei: Many thanks! Seeing what it's like on floors 27-30, I'm motivated to continue on my own file.. There's just something so satisfying about hitting 34 million on a boss. :V
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I don't really use Meiling, either. I'll use her early on when I don't have a large selection of characters to choose from (and while she's the only one with a status heal), but once the selection starts widening, I don't use her, not even for bosses. Komachi and Yuugi can tank quite well, and they have the advantage of being able to inflict statuses/debuffs and do pretty good damage, respectively, whereas all Meiling can really do is just sit there.
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Well, Meiling has Healer for when status effects still matter (assuming you aim to make most members who stay out for more then 5 seconds immune to them, and everyone on PAR since :Iku:), and a self-heal. The rest of the time you probably want your tank to be a switch-slave anyway. It's part of the reason I find Tenshi bleh to use, she's super slow. (That and against certain moves she falls over. She -can- break a few fights, though.)
I do eventually switch to Yuugi though because super high affinities can completely replace the MND stat, especially in late Plus where you can pump them with SKP/gears very effectively. In Plus, Healer actually becomes a decent heal, though... really, I'm talking about 30F bosses when I talk about switching to Yuugi. It'd be completely realistic to do earlier though.
As for Komachi Tank, I never, ever liked that idea in actual play. She has very high HP, but takes massive damage from everything. It's nice because she can take several hits before going down, reliably, but it's too much maintenance to actually keep her out as a tank. She's good for being a spongy person with a nice variety of moves, though. (DTH for randoms, Avici for a variety of situations, and Scythe for a decent SPI nuke)
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I tended to use Meiling as a switcher due to colorful rain, she could just sit out forever, she was also the only person with a status heal in my party. As status ailments have been reduced due to equipment though, she's becoming less useful. I liked Komachi but sometimes a group of enemies could just focus her down over a few turns and she was too hard to heal.
For me, Yuugi was that one character who is always attacked by the perfectly wrong move and got one-shotted, but she could dish out the damage and take it as well.
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Labyrinth of Touhou 2 (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm).
There's some info on his blog (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/). It will still be like EO and have 12 character parties, but unlike LoT1 it'll have subclasses and upgradable/equipable skills. Looks like there'll be about 30 characters in the final game. No idea when it's supposed to come out, but C83 seems a bit unlikely. There'll be a trial version at some point in time as well.
The art is now being done by eho_(icbm), so there won't be any need for the charagraphs anymore. His webpage (http://eho971.web.fc2.com/zakki.html) has some character sketches.
I should be able to handle the hacking when it does come out, but I'd need someone to volunteer to translate it. Deranged doesn't seem to be available anymore, unfortunately.
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Gonna sadface if the character customisation is as freeform as Arcanum Knights and we can't get a translation.
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30 characters is low (non-Plus Disk original has 40), especially since there are more characters now. I hope they end up having more than that.
Also: LOT 2 HELL YES!
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40 is INCLUDING the plus-disk characters, actually. It's only 32 beforehand.
So, it's actually pretty much the same amount of characters LoT had before it got an expansion. Not a low amount at all! :3
ALSO WOW :D Hype!
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Oh. Well, I still think there should be more, since there are more characters now.
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Just because more characters are available doesn't mean game rosters get bigger; things like balance and getting them ingame and the actual work to make them all generally are far more significant limiting factors. This is why almost all games have very limited rosters despite there being tons of touhou characters. (Devil of Decline is a rare exception due to the shikigami system making it realistic to have them -all-)
There was plenty of characters that weren't in LoT1 who could have been put in if the issue was just there not being enough Touhou characters to fill it up with.
Since it's about the same number LoT had, it seems about right to me, heheh. You were always getting new ones all the way until Plus Disk, often several in a short period of time.
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Keep in mind that this appears to be an almost complete redesign. There's definitely none of the original art, probably none of the existing stats, and even if he does reuse skill animations, there's still going to be a lot more new skills for all the characters.
The subclasses and additional skills will probably make balancing characters really difficult. I think he did a great job of that with LoT1. It's perfectly reasonable for him to not want to cram in additional characters.
Besides, there'll almost certainly be an expansion with additional characters.
Gonna sadface if the character customisation is as freeform as Arcanum Knights and we can't get a translation.
Hmm? Did anyone actually make an attempt to translate it?
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Yeah, too many characters is nice to have, but taking the time to design them all is very difficult. I rather see smaller, but quality casts, over bigger, but lacking in quality casts.
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Hmm? Did anyone actually make an attempt to translate it?
I never looked for one since there didn't seem to be all that much interest in the game.
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I looked for an AK translation a couple times, but it seems like no one ever even looked at it because it wasn't touhou. Shame, really.
EDIT: From a bit of googling, it looks like someone dumped the script at one point but couldn't figure out a way to reinsert translated files.
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I looked for an AK translation a couple times, but it seems like no one ever even looked at it because it wasn't touhou. Shame, really.
EDIT: From a bit of googling, it looks like someone dumped the script at one point but couldn't figure out a way to reinsert translated files.
I haven't looked too deeply, but from what I've seen it's almost the same as LoT. I could probably make a patch for it, if I had a willing translator. It looks like that guy wasn't a forum regular, so contacting him through there would likely be fruitless.
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Yeah, I got that impression too.
Would be nice if it could at least get a menu patch - I suspect drumming up interest for a doujin game not based on an existing IP with an existing fanbase is fairly difficult, sadly, but one can dream. You could try asking around on some of the console fan translation communities (RHDN comes to mind) perhaps.
Sadly, I don't have any Japanese knowledge to offer. :(
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You know what, I'll give this a shot. Once I'm done with my Diablo2 mod, I'll need a new project. I make no claims about being able to translate well or fast, but it's going to be practice for me. Let's just try get AK to be a little more playable friendly, a patch to translate as much of the skills and items as possible.
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You know what, I'll give this a shot. Once I'm done with my Diablo2 mod, I'll need a new project. I make no claims about being able to translate well or fast, but it's going to be practice for me. Let's just try get AK to be a little more playable friendly, a patch to translate as much of the skills and items as possible.
Awesome. Send me a PM or something when you're ready. I've created a string dump of the entire game (v 1.53, the latest). It's unfortunately a giant mess, as there's no clear division between sections and plenty of junk data. As a result there's a huge block of dialogue, then menu stuff, what appears to be skill information, maybe some weapon stats, and then more dialogue. It'll probably be easier to go through the game and look for things to translate and then find them in the string dump, at least for the menus.
If anyone has a save game with all of the items, I could at least use that to separate the items into a different file.
Incidentally, it seems that carpe fulgur is interested in the game; not necessarily to translate, but I found a post from one of their guys expressing interest in playing the game to evaluate it, and considering their circle name to be "the most amazing thing ever". If nothing else, they'd be able to localize AK without any issue with ZUN's policies. This was 6 months ago, so it is likely that nothing has panned out.
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LoT2?
Actually good character art?
Customization?
YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES...
Also, that dark/silver-haired girl... is that Meimu?
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On the preview image with the game logo? The two silver-haired female characters shown are Keine and Momiji.
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I know on the preview image who everyone is. I was looking at the artist's webpage and looked at the wrong image. So never mind.
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Oh, on the artist's website? The girl with Reimu in dark clothes and silver hair with a purple streak? That's Tokiko/Un-named Book-Reading Youkai from CoLA I think. Odd pairing, that.
I wonder if he(?) has enough character art to make a graphic set for LoT1, because I love his stuff.
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What?! Another game... ah crap I have to finish this one quickly then. And there's so much more to do...
I've recently started playing again. Managed to beat Alice and Yuugi and recruit Aya and Iku. Currently scampering about on 7F and I have a feeling it'll be a while until I get out.
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Oooh, a sequel? With actually good character art? Customization?
This could be fun.
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Boy, I'm sure behind the times. Yeah, this sounds amazing. Can't wait to see how this one turns out!
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Am I the only one who liked the charagraph function? Ah well, still hype nonetheless.
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I took a closer look at the blogpost for LoT2. The customisation looks about as much as Arcanum Knights.
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So by taking that into consideration, we can then assume that it's practically AK, but Touhou-ized?
Of course, we sill need more information though.
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Yay, Now I get to lose another 100 or so hours of my life, Again!
This does look really cool though, I really can't wait, I just hope that there is less grinding gaps.
So I was bumbling around the second floor with my new file, and found that I could cross the gap despite not having beaten Cirno. That was kinda cool, and I decided to make use of it by grinding on the third floor, but I forgot something...
Suprise! Youmu!!!!
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NG+ games lets you skip the recruitment events like Cirno since you already have the characters.
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The main thing I have to say about that LoT2 image is...
Dat Parsee. Seriously. It sent shivers down my spine with the shadow and green eye glint.
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Dat Parsee. Seriously. It sent shivers down my spine with the shadow and green eye glint.
Maybe she'll be like she is in "Do the Right Thing" and have a split personality, one personality being somewhat nice and the other completely murderous.
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I haven't looked too deeply, but from what I've seen it's almost the same as LoT. I could probably make a patch for it, if I had a willing translator. It looks like that guy wasn't a forum regular, so contacting him through there would likely be fruitless.
With regards to this, I would actually be interested in helping with translating this. I can't say I'm amazing or anything, but I could certainly contribute.
I actually completely forgot they were making a non-Touhou game until I randomly looked in this thread and had my mind exploded by this sequel announcement. I should see about playing it...
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Get Hype (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/), there's a Labyrinth of Touhou 2 announced!
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...you do realize we've been talking about that for most of the last 30 posts in the thread, right? :getdown:
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Get Hype (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/), there's a Labyrinth of Touhou 2 announced!
I imagine you noticed with that avatar and flavour text change :derp:
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Enter another latecomer to the big news. All I can say is: HECK. YEAH. :]
The only thing that could make me feel ever giddier would be if Hina were confirmed (and turned out to be an OP-character in the end).
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iirc one of the Special Disk bonuses talking about Wriggle said he was debating between Wriggle and Hina for the poison-specialist.
Actually lemme...
I wanted a character that specialized in poison, but there were other alternatives like Medicine
and Hina (in some interpretations) to think about.
In the end, thanks to StB which gave the impression that Wriggle was a poison-related insect, and that in production terms, I was working on the dialogue for the 12F boss (= the decision was taking far too long), I ended up just deciding on going with Wriggle.
The art for Wriggle (both the original and the alphes version I used) were kinda cute. She's very fabulous before poison starts getting resisted often near the end of maingame (and then completely drops off the charts damage-wise in Plus). And her moves are really cute looking/sounding! Comet on Earth is, at least :T I like using her a lot.
However, Hina I'm sure would have been nice as well. Hmm. I wonder who the cast will be~
...I also wonder if Labyrinth 1 will be canon. Maribel returning or more Mannosuke? Heheh.
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...I also wonder if Labyrinth 1 will be canon. Maribel returning or more Mannosuke? Heheh.
Rinnosuke is on the page, and it'd be weird to have him in the game without his powerup. Maribel, however, is less certain. Mary and Renko are sent back to the outside world after 20F boss, and they only appear in the plus-disk because the plus-disk is largely unrelated to the maingame plot.
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Rinnosuke is on the page, and it'd be weird to have him in the game without his powerup.
I think he'll still be powerful (thus I think the games will share continuity), but not join the party immediately. Either that or he loses some of it at the beginning.
That does make me wonder what is actually going to happen. Is Another Space going to return? Is it simply an incident within Gensokyo itself? Which Touhou is behind it? Or is someone new behind it? Gah, I can't wait for it to come out!
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...Labyrinth of Touhou 2?
...My entire life is now complete in the most opulent and wonderful way.
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omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg
YES YES YES. I CAN DIE HAPPILY NOW.
Why do I get the feeling it might have to do with the underground people.....
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I think he'll still be powerful (thus I think the games will share continuity), but not join the party immediately. Either that or he loses some of it at the beginning.
He had some kind of power up in this continuity, because of the tear in space or something. Renko and Merry are pretty weak and they still have good skills. So, if he doesn't have his power up, maybe he will be a buffer of some kind or a crafter of some kind, both of these scenarios would work.
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Speaking of which, and I feel terribly stupid for asking this, but what exactly gave Rinnosuke his powers and stuff? I never quite understood what the game meant.
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I understood it as he collapsed the power of all possible outcomes into one reality, basically hijacking power from alternate timelines and stuff like that. I might be wrong though, It was just the explanation that made sense to me.
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Essentially, he "Pulled a Zeltrech", to those who know the Nasuverse.
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I understood it as he collapsed the power of all possible outcomes into one reality, basically hijacking power from alternate timelines and stuff like that. I might be wrong though, It was just the explanation that made sense to me.
Oh yeeaah, that's right. Thanks for the summary!
That kind of explains why Rinnosuke's attacks are also a bunch of references.
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I think out of the entirety of the threads, this is the frst time there's a question about the plot :V
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I've always considered the game's plot more of an excuse plot anyway.
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You people actually understand what's going on? I think I lost the plot around the point where they took the piss out of me for sequence breaking.
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I followed the plot for floor 12, 16, 18 and 20.
Everything else was quotes and references thrown at my face so hard it almost hurt.
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I haven't gotten too far into it, but it's mostly references and such until people who are suspected to have something to do with the plot start showing up i.e. Yukari, the Eientei crew, Rinnosuke, etc.
It's not supposed to be a very serious game.
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I'm kinda/sorta back to playing this, I'm still stuck i nthe very beginning of the postgame, reimu level at 140.
I'm still one star away from acessing the Plus Disk. My choices for getting that third star are: Get every single item in the normal game (Rough and tedious but not impossible. Will have to rough it out on the boss rush, though), Bloodstained Seal bosses (AFAIK, they should only be done after a while in the plus disk) and V.2 Bosses (AFAIK, can't, since I'dh ave to beat the final boss v.2 as well, right?)
So my only real choice seems to be roughing it out on the boss rush, any tips? Aside from the usual "manage your TP/SP as well as you can" tips.
Party is Meiling/Iku/Reimu/Nitori/Mystia/Yukari/Kaguya/Flandre/Ran/Minoriko/Suwako/Komachi. It's worked well for me so far, but I dunno, feedback?
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Hm.. You're just about ready to handle any of those three stars that you're asking about. 20F grants a nice amount of experience, and grinding there for a bit should allow you to be powerful enough to defeat the v2 Bosses, or even Boss Rush for that final item. You don't have to beat Final Boss v2, as that is a star in itself for much later. You could also take a crack at the first two Bloodstained Seal bosses to see how well you fare on that challenge.
Hm.. I forget. Is the path to the "rest of 20F" blocked off by a star checkpoint? If so, that will hinder you trying to finish the v2's and Bloody Papa.. If so, then the Items star is your best bet for now..
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You should be able to beat most V2 bosses as you are right now. It's definitely an easier star than the Bloodstained Seals, as none of them are as strong as the Hibachi twins. As was said earlier, the V2 final boss doesn't come until you've already cleared the other stars. A few of them might give you some difficulty, but since they each give a ton of EXP anyway, you can just kill the easier ones first and work your way up.
The boss rush is not too bad, either. I'd finish that before finishing the Bloodstained Seals. You are already more than strong enough to defeat the first two Bloodstained Seals on the 1st and 6th floors, and you might (or might not) be strong enough to take on the ones on the 9th and 20th floors. But I'd save the final seal for after completing the V2 bosses and the boss rush.
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If you can beat Maribel handily you're ready for the Boss Rush.
V2 bosses are pretty easy as a whole, a few of them are kinda tough but mostly the multi-target ones.
First 2 Bloodstained Seal bosses are easy, 3rd is pretty easy too, 4th can be cheesed and Hibachi Twins are 0___0 (but that miiight have been due to my strategy of nuking both down with Kaguya and carefully tracking and manipulating HP loss combined with being underleveled...
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I have abandoned my first attempt at the game and am about to start a second one, but before I do and mess everything up yet again, I'd like to ask a simple clarifying question regarding character building. Not any particular characters, but building in general. Does a sentence along the lines of "the best build for Marisa is a pure attack one" mean that absolutely every level up bonus should go into Attack, or is it still wise to allocate something into an universally useful stat, like Spell Points or Speed, once in a while?
And one more thing, does it matter if I raise skill levels before or after leveling up?
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I can't answer your first question (though I guess boosting things besides a characters main stats would be good), but it doesn't matter if you boost skill levels before or after leveling up, as boosting skill levels adds to a multiplier that multiplies your base stat by a certain amount. This multiplier grows also with level ups and level up bonuses. The base value is boosted only upon level up, and it will immediately be affected by the multiplier you have built up so far. So boost skill levels when you want, because it doesn't affect leveling up at all.
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You actually want Magic on Marisa, not Attack. Attack is for brawlers like Remi and Flan.
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You actually want Magic on Marisa, not Attack. Attack is for brawlers like Remi and Flan.
That's actually what I meant. I have no idea why did I type "Attack" instead.
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Level up bonuses should be used purely on the best stat. So pure Magic build for Marisa would be spending every single one on Magic, yes. There are a few characters who can perhaps focus on two stats, like half Magic, half Mind for Patchy. For the most part you want to focus purely on the best stat.
And yeah, it doesn't matter if you raise skill levels before or after level ups. None of that bullshit where you want to level up as slowly as possible.
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Yeah. You're better off sinking Levels into Magic for Marisa, and using SKP to boost her SP.
Something of note is that you can easily get her to 20 TP with a little SKP. I believe she starts stock with 18.
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Ah, thanks everyone. Hopefully I won't ruin my party through stupid decisions this time around.
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Incidentally, I've been experimenting lately, and found that, given the right items and enough SKP, Flan can indeed tank.
It takes an exorbitant amount though, so don't expect to get it without a lot of grinding, or with Cheat Engine. (Thanks again for the help with that Ikari!)
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> First try at boss rush, dies at Cosmic.
> Second try, several levels later, I manage to kill Yukari off before she uses Djinn Storm which makes my life just that much easier. By the time I reach Mari
I only have Kaguya and Suwako left as my nukers. Mystia never left my party the entire rush. Kaguya gets one-shotted by Amnesieri. Suwako and Mystia carry my team to the Final Phase where I die with Mary
having about 1,2 million HP left.
Why do I still play this game.
(Back to farming Page 10 items.)
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Thanks to how SKP works, literally any character can tank (Even Flan) and any character can nuke (Even Renko
) problem is, it takes 5000+ levels of SKP for that to happen.
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You can also flat-out ignore mind in some situations by just plowing resists.
In Flan's case, that's actually the more effective method than grinding up her Mind stat to resist magic.
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Issue is Flan either hurts herself or drains the party's active bar, so she still can't tank :V
But yeah, if you -really- wanted to do that, it does apply to most everyone. But it takes entirely unrealistic amounts of points for non-tanks. (And by that I mean even if you hacked in the SKP it'd take a long time just to pump it high enough) Resist pumping does realistically replace mind in Plus Disk though; it can make people like Yuugi or Youmu ridiculous offensive tanks with their magic weaknesses gone.
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Forbidden Fruit is a pretty reliable move, the only issue is the SP cost. It doesn't bust the active bars too much, and it dishes pretty respectable damage on even folks that resist MYS.
And, in a pinch, Flan can just knock heads the traditional way.
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even if it's flan, a regular attack won't do shit.
that said, if your Flandre doesn't oneshot everything (outside of bosses) you did a terrible job. with the exception of heavy FIR and MYS resistance enemies.
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I think cutting your entire party's active bars by half is a really, really bad cost for a move that doesn't do super-amazing damage :V
You never, -ever- want to use those two active-bar kill moves if it won't finish the round. It is never worth the gigantic hit to the rest of the party's turns, which generally sets them farther back then they'd ever be if they just used a move. (And actual long delay moves are usually followed by switching that character out rather then letting them wait, in the first place)
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Actually, I've noted that even with normal attacks, Flan's pretty powerful.
Then again, NG+ file, so I don't have to mess with recruiting her. I got tired of the grind, and skipped straight to the experimenting.
And so far, despite not having a lot of gear, I have more than enough SKP to make up for it. (Again, thanks for the help Ikari! Can't say it enough.)
...Fridge Logic moment! If she's this beefy without equips....Oh shit. Blue Sabers are really gonna make things beastly.
Incidentally, on my main runthrough, the Flying Squirrel never dropped. But on the experimental run, it's droppin' like there's no tomorrow.
As for the active-bar busters, enough SPD can compensate for that. Either by SKP grinding(which takes ages.), or Equips.
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No, spd doesn't compensate :V That's like saying "Oh, using this move debuffs my attack? Time to get more attack!" No, you -always- want more attack, and getting more doesn't make the detriment any less bad.
Forbidden Fruit does nice damage, but most of the time (after early game, which you're in right now) it won't finish a battle, and then the enemies all get to wail on you while your entire party can't move. It's not even as strong as most other worthy nukes in the game! It's all perfectly fine if it ends the battle, of course, but when it doesn't, it's bad news.
Flan's normal attacks are actually fairly okay, but they're still not terribly good. (Again though; in early game they probably tear things apart. You aren't even supposed to have her yet though, of course.)
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laevantein still OHKOs everything that isn't a boss or strongly resistant to FIR (or has high MND and DEF) lol.. so it's generally fairly safe to use it. though, manipulating orders so she goes last is certainly helpful.
I don't see forbidden fruit as anything useful in late game, either. especially against bosses. but if you have a strong flan, it should generally be enough to OHKO trash. I know mine could do it. or can :V
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Forbidden Fruit is actually very effective against Victorious Little Tengu on 28F. It's not too hard to have Flandre outspeed them (I think you need 1501 speed to do it). They take half damage from fire and double damage from MYS, and they are nasty enough that you want them dead immediately.
I saw a (Japanese) video a long time ago about someone that was horribly overleveled beating WINNER with a party of just Flandre and Rumia (healer). Anything is possible with enough grind, but that's not really saying much.
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If you can beat Maribel handily you're ready for the Boss Rush.
Tried to go for her just to see how ready I was.
Killed toruastory and amnesiari in the same turn, leaving only the third one. He immediately casts djinn storm along with mari
casting flux of yomotsu hirasaka which DTH'd nitori and meiling.
Oh yeah, and after I killed the third one she insisted in locking me down with another two djinn storms.
I am .not. prepared.
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Then prepare for SP recovery and DTH immunity.
The boss rush is not very damaging, the threat there is TP/SP running out, and statuses, mostly DTH/SIL.
Djinn Storm is RNG, and IIRC only a 5% chance so that has to be the unluckiest Maribel fight ever.
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> implying it's as unlucky as my "she cripples me with every status bullshit she has got" fight I once had. I was well prepared for the fight, I had no problems survivng a really long maribel fight, quickly disposed of her familiars and whatnot
but then she decided it'd be fun to cast djinn storm, crippling my offence. after wasting 2 turns recharging, she does it again. rinse repeat until game over.
of course she attacked me inbetween. and without SP I had no way of healing. that was so bulllshit. I defeated her on the try after that because she didn't throw such crap at my face ever again
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In the end, this game is just a game of numbers. And sometimes those numbers are against you, even when you're prepared. All our theorycrafting is just us trying to tip the odds.
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Anything can be done through massive amount of skillpoints. An entire team with 1000 levels in everything is hilariously great.
...I swear I thought I'd lose my finger after all that tapping.
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After 20 levels of grinding purely on Hellfire's Demonskys, I cheat engined my way through getting the Divine Spirit Barrier, then I attempted the Boss Rush.
It was a pain, but I made it, third time's the charm!
Now I have the postgame content available to me.
So... Should I quit now before I become addicted to grinding? :V
Anyway, I should be able to beat the beast of centaurea, and I've beat EVD. But I wanna go for the plus disk now, any tips for floor 21?
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But I wanna go for the plus disk now, any tips for floor 21?
Enter 21F, and then go back to 1F and pick up Mystia. You won't regret it.
Don't try fighting Baal Avatar until you need to get past the seal on 25F.
Don't try fighting Okuu until you're at Reimu level 250+ (and you'll still have a hard time..)
Don't even think of fighting any of the Bloodstained Seals V2 for a very very long time.
In short, explore 21F, but go deeper into the Plus Disk dungeons and then come back for the bosses when you're significantly stronger. :V
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Enter 21F, and then go back to 1F and pick up Mystia. You won't regret it.
Don't try fighting Baal Avatar until you need to get past the seal on 25F.
Don't try fighting Okuu until you're at Reimu level 250+ (and you'll still have a hard time..)
Don't even think of fighting any of the Bloodstained Seals V2 for a very very long time.
In short, explore 21F, but go deeper into the Plus Disk dungeons and then come back for the bosses when you're significantly stronger. :V
For Mystia, I've done that the moment I beat Mari the first time through :V Mystia has been my MVP for a while now.
Fun Fact: My Mystia has about half of the DEF/MND of my meiling, about 3/4ths of her HP, a tiny bit less ATK than my Nitori, the highest SPD of my team (Beating Flandre, the second fastest, by 50 SPD) 42 Resist to all ailments and debuffs (Except DTH, which she has 22). 200 Affinity to all elements and as much SP as my Iku with about half of the SP cost.
BV
Regardless, guess I'll do nothing but explore and grind like a maniac for a good while. When is the next star-barricade, btw?
PS: The enemies on this floor are surprisingly easy. I thought I'd have to deal with a second 17F or 18F or something.
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The next Star checkpoint is on 22F. You'll need four Stars completed to proceed. You will need six of the seven Stars completed by the time you get to 27F. The sixth Star is
Maribel V2
, but to unlock that fight, you will need five Stars..
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That's a pretty beefy Mystia there man. bet she can tank pretty nicely on earlier floors.
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doesn't sound beefy to me. my reimu had higher defenses than my meiling and about 2/3 HP. higher affinities and resistances.
as a matter of fact, my reimu is a better tank than my meiling in my current safe xD when grinding for the winner I made her able to survive everything (with the exception of knockout in 3 steps and last judgement; because KI3S is busllhit on the yuugi 3 version. 2 million damage, wtf?)
I am so overpowered :V I should probably kill the winner so often until I game over eventually.
ah, I digress. well, good luck on the plus-disk content. unless you "like" grinding, defeating F30 is going to be a fucking chore. good luck, regardless!
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Well, Meiling and Tenshi are regarded as the gold standards of Tanking, so having a character be almost as durable as them really says something.
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Late in Plus Disk, balance weirds out. For example, it becomes really realistic to pump affinities to make a bad-MND character take magic hits like a pro, suddenly making a whole lot of people able to hold the first slot as well as Meiling... who at that point only really has her heals going for her, which aren't particularly needed at that point either.
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Only thing I've noted that Flan's got poor affinity in is Spirit. But that makes sense given that Remi shares a similarly low Spirit Affinity.
So to make her tanky, just plow DEF and Affinities.Boom, instant Tanky Nuker.
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even if it's flan, a regular attack won't do shit.
that said, if your Flandre doesn't oneshot everything (outside of bosses) you did a terrible job. with the exception of heavy FIR and MYS resistance enemies.
I am not quite sure what you mean. But Flan's regular attack is respectable. Regular attacks have a 50% delay after use, so you can use that until you can get off Laevateinn or Starbow Break and then switch out. With her HP growth, she is unlikely to get one shotted and in the Plus Disk, that likelihood drops even more, because affinities are generally more important than defenses.
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what are you saying? the normal attack still doesn't do nearly enough damage to have an effect on a fight. be it trash or a boss. sure, 50% delay is nice, but if you use it, you will never get a laevantein. because if you couldn't do it in the first round, you won't use it 3 rounds after using attack.
you also don't have to wait for gauges of other team members. as I said, if your Flandre doesn't oneshot anything outside of strongly FIR resistant enemies as well as enemies with high DEF AND MND, you are doing something seriously wrong and should rethink about how you use level points and skillpoints for her.
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Huh? Are you sure you are seeing her damage correctly? My level 489 Flandre has 417903 attack power and does 390k damage per hit with regular attacks. Sure, it can't compare to high tier attack skills, like 1.46 million Last Judgement, but it isn't isn't low damage. Compared to Mystia's Ill Star Dive, which does about 420k, I wouldn't say it is bad.
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is still won't do shit in a fight. 390k damage alllright, but against enemies with several million HP, it's better to use a fucking skill. unless you are out of EVERYTHING there should never ever be a reason to use the regular attack of anyone.
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Using the attack command loses out in dps in every way to using a skill. Even if you're out of sp, a focus and skill will likely net you more damage.
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Flan has some consideration for it since Starbow Break in randoms loses her HP and drains TP quickly, but she's the only case outside of earlygame where you'd ever do it
Flan's Attack isn't -useless-, although it's not often you'd seriously consider using it (Since it does decent damage you can finish off a nearly-dead enemy, which Attack isn't good for normally after the first couple of floors). You want to clear random battles quickly and being that amount of conservative isn't conducive to that.
But yeah, outside of finishing off a nearly-dead enemy, you wouldn't bother. It does decent damage, but you don't want to take your time with things.
As for the person still trying to argue on how to do Tanky Flan, it seriously just does not work, because the attack you'll use in bosses (where you want a tanky character) will hurt her with defense-ignoring damage, and it doesn't matter how tanky you are when your HP is constantly low from that.
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Well, I finished the V2 bosses and they were surprisingly easy. I destroyed Yukari after she decided to stop OHKO'ing my Suwako and Rinnosuke was more annoying than anything.
I've been steamrolling floors 22 and 23, completely mapped them out and everything. I'm currently at floor 24, which prompts me to take a break, I've heard this floor is a nightmare fitting of its looks.
Reimu Level 190. Also, I have 1,5 million SKP sitting unused. All of my characters HP, SP, Main offensive stat, DEF, MND, SPD and all elemental Affinities have been raised until they cost 5k SKP to upgrade.
So... what now? I still have to beat hibachi.
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With skillpoints, you should concentrate more on a character's most important stats. Especially considering many of your characters likely aren't switched in for more then a few seconds at a time in boss battles, rendering their HP/DEF/MND fairly unimportant, and raising SP becomes less important for many people now as well. (the SP recovery amount maxes out at a certain point of SP, so you don't keep getting recovery speed returns from higher max)
If you're planning on implementing any of the soon upcoming Plus Disk characters into your party, keep on saving. You should be able to beat Hibachi no issue right now, unless you mean the dual hibachi; which you should still be able to beat, albeit it's not a pushover.
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is still won't do shit in a fight. 390k damage alllright, but against enemies with several million HP, it's better to use a fucking skill. unless you are out of EVERYTHING there should never ever be a reason to use the regular attack of anyone.
Except in Flan's case, you don't have anything else to use. Starbow Break hurts her and can make her die if the enemy's turn is coming up. You need to use a regular attack so you can follow up with Laevateinn. However, that said, her attack damage isn't insignificant. As I have mentioned for comparative purposes, Eiki's Last Judgement, does 1.46 million against Flan's regular attack which is 360k. This means if Flan attacks 4 to 5 times, it is equal to Eiki's damage. Flan can get in about 2 attacks compared to Eiki's 1 attack if you take delay into account. That means Flan is sporting 720k damage compared to 1.46 million. That doesn't look so shabby now, does it?
Of course, if you have an opening, you can use Starbow Break and switch her out afterwards, because that skill hurts her a lot. But if you need her to stay in combat, this is what you do. Use a regular attack, then follow up with a better attack, then switch.
Using the attack command loses out in dps in every way to using a skill. Even if you're out of sp, a focus and skill will likely net you more damage.
For everyone else, yes. For Flan, not necessarily, unless you can switch her out after her Starbow Break. And against regular enemies that hurts her TP if you use Starbow Break, so its best that you use regular attack, then follow up with Laevateinn.
Reimu Level 190. Also, I have 1,5 million SKP sitting unused. All of my characters HP, SP, Main offensive stat, DEF, MND, SPD and all elemental Affinities have been raised until they cost 5k SKP to upgrade.
I would suggest level up their skill points on what they are good at. Someone like Youmu, don't bother with Mind, because her Mind growth is so terrible. But for someone like Reimu, yeah, leveling those will help. SP level ups aren't as good later on though, but if you still run into SP issues, then yeah, level it up.
Just remember, as the previous poster says, SP recovery has a cap. I think the cap count is 200. So if you have 300 SP and 30% recovery, you recover 60 SP on focus, not 90 SP on focus.
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Floor 24 never gave me issues. Just make sure Mystia's faster than everything on the floor, and you'll do fine. She's useful like that.
Anyways, I've been doing another playthrough of this game. I got to 30F last time, but never actually did any of the bosses, something I plan to rectify. I'm on 18F now, grinding for the boss, who's every bit as difficult as I remembered, unlike Yukari, who I took on well before I thought I should (mainly to hear her awesome original-game BGM) and won anyways. I lost Reimu to Yukari's first attack, but guess what? I won anyways. I hadn't even mapped out the entire floor (hell, I hadn't even beaten Great Stamp). I expected to lose badly, but nope. Even with Reimu dead before any of my characters got a single turn, I managed to win. Barely, yes, but I should've gotten my ass handed to me, especially without my group healer (and only good defensive buffer). So that was amusing.
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New thread here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13990.0.html).