Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F  (Read 169421 times)

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #240 on: December 26, 2017, 02:10:19 PM »
For Renko, you generally want to invest in her HP, since her MND is pretty bad; plus if you use Maribel their synergy gives her a decent amount of HP regen, which benefits HP tanks greatly.
Eh, considering she has maintenance, it really isn't. (especially after being taught def/mnd boost) She does work really well in an HP build (especially as that becomes more useful the farther you get), but before def/mnd taper off in usefulness some she can easily get the best def/mnd stat in your entire party. Which is a little easier to keep healed up, esp. if you aren't using Maribel. Both are good~
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #241 on: December 26, 2017, 05:44:13 PM »
The extra areas part of the postgame is a neat concept but my god are some of these bosses for the light pillars insanely weird and kind of unenjoyable. Is it me or is boss balance in this game kind of bad? There seems to be a weirdly large amount of bosses that are really difficult to damage even when you have insanely overpowered people on your team (Nitori).

Yeah, that's the postgame bosses for you. I didn't find Second Sun too bad, but that was before Laevatinn/Gambler were nerfed, so things could be much different. Guardian of the Crystals, on the other hand, is probably the hardest boss anywhere in the game. The way to go is basically to get the strongest alpha strike you can in the single free turn before any of the enemies act. Have Yuyuko instadeath the Wind Crystal and then go all in with Kaguya and one of Marisa or Flandre. Ideally you want to use Spiriting Away and Aya in order to get as much damage in as possible. The battle becomes possible once you've killed both the Fire and Wind Crystals, although it is still extremely difficult. Last time I did this, I actually managed to kill the Guardian before it got a turn, but that was abusing Laevatinn/Gambler/Genji Glove and took dozens of tries before I got the triple damage proc several times in a row.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #242 on: December 26, 2017, 06:20:28 PM »
The extra areas part of the postgame is a neat concept but my god are some of these bosses for the light pillars insanely weird and kind of unenjoyable. Is it me or is boss balance in this game kind of bad? There seems to be a weirdly large amount of bosses that are really difficult to damage even when you have insanely overpowered people on your team (Nitori).

Yeah, the main game's postgame bosses are probably the hardest ones in the game. I SHK cheesed The Great "C" to death to skip its duplication entirely, but mainly because I couldn't get a more consistent strategy fighting it normally. The Second Sun wasn't too bad (although I did empty the party of nonessential members to minimize the hassle of Time-Space Warp), but the Guardian of the Crystals has my vote for the hardest boss in the game, nothing contests that. You can definitely defeat it at challenge level, but it's pretty grueling. Took me about 20 minutes accounting for the frame rate loss while recording, but a large part of that was because I used Tenshi as the sole attacker throughout the entire fight. This is definitely one fight where you want multiple attackers due to how much MP you have to go through.

Wind Crystal has very low HP and defenses and can be taken out in a couple turns, but has high EVA so you have to be sure to use either high ACC attacks or have ACC boosts like Momiji's 50% boost to deal with it. My recommendation is taking it out first due to Calming Scent. If it gets a turn there's a very real possibility it'll just use that a couple times and then the Guardian of the Crystals can use Dark Star, which is pretty much a party wipe. Earth Crystal is susceptible to PAR and Water Crystal is susceptible to SHK, those two can be disabled for long periods of time provided that you have the MP for it. As long as you can prevent them from acting, you'll only have to deal with the Guardian of the Crystals and the Fire Crystal. Should be able to eliminate at least one of the Crystals this way. Water Crystal's Shredder is pretty dangerous this early in the game since buffs are vital for damaging and survival, so this one gets preference imo. Earth Crystal would be next for the healing. Guardian of the Crystals goes berserk if it's the last enemy standing, so defeating it before defeating the last Crystal is vital. That leaves you having to survive the attacks of the Fire Crystal throughout the entire fight.

Water Crystal has high overall DEF/MND, but if you debuff its defenses you can damage it fine. Earth Crystal has low DEF and high MND, while Fire Crystal is the opposite. Earth Crystal is also very resistant to non-SPD debuffs, so you'll definitely want to target its DEF or use defense-ignoring attacks on it. Fire Crystal's DEF is easy to debuff though. Make sure not to debuff Guardian of the Crystals too much, that'll trigger Dark Star too. It uses Dark Star when its combined buffs are at or exceed 150%, or combined debuffs are at or exceed 75%. As far as equipment goes, 3x Grand Master Breaker Title is your best option in almost all cases, but realistically you probably aren't going to grind for that on every character. Cyber Elf Grandie and Star of Elendil work out too. Fight mostly involves tanking MYS/DRK attacks, with primarily FIR targeting the first slot (Fire Crystal does have a potentially dangerous multi-target attack though). The other Crystals have weaker attacks, use fewer offensive attacks with their turns (particularly Earth Crystal), and can have their turns delayed easily (besides Wind Crystal which should be defeated rapidly), so their attacks are of less concern. Not to be ignored entirely, but the main offensive threat comes from the Guardian of the Crystals and the Fire Crystal. The Fire Crystal is the most dangerous to your first slot due to Crimson Lotus Fang and the highest attacking stat between all of the enemies, so FIR resistance is more important there. MYS/DRK are more relevant to the other party slots.

Another thing you could do is take out the Fire Crystal before the Earth Crystal, but then you have to spend more time PAR locking it to mitigate/negate its healing, since you have to leave it for last. This would be more complicated and luck reliant, but means taking less damage from the Fire Crystal, and the Earth Crystal is less dangerous alone than the Fire Crystal.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #243 on: December 27, 2017, 03:14:52 PM »
Great C is almost trivial if you have Hina, since the debuff resistance is low. All it's attacks become pretty toothless and it slows down quite a bit. At that point your main concern is just trying to kill them all at the same time.

Guardian of the Crystals though... ooomph!
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #244 on: December 27, 2017, 07:08:03 PM »
Defeating all of them at the same time was actually the main problem. I tried several times to beat them all simultaneously with Tenshi's Violent Motherland, but the first one always went down when the others still had about 40-50% of their HP. It was really strange. I tried using Reisen's Gas-Woven Orb for PSN in combination with Violent Motherland but it still didn't get them down low enough for a quintuple knockout, the first one would get down to 1 HP before the others were close enough to defeat. So my options were to either whittle them all down simultaneously with PSN, settle for defeating the first "C" and then use single-target spells to bring it down low enough for a simultaneous knockout, or just SHK cheese and use Iku to ignore its defenses. That last option just seemed like the most consistent and easiest to do, so I went with that and nailed it on the second try.

The other problem that forced the SHK lock solution was that The Great "C" could, at any time two (or more) of them act in a row, wipe out a character via Black Universe followed by "C" Falling from the Sky, since that one ignores defenses. Of course, anything that deals damage can do this, but there is no way to negate "C" Falling from the Sky's damage. Having five bosses attacking simultaneously with the ability to use Black Universe was...questionable, design. Didn't feel that way for anything else in the game. The other fights could be hard, but they were fair and lacked cheap shots like that.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #245 on: December 27, 2017, 07:43:22 PM »
All of the "C"s actually have different health scores. The one in the center has the least health. I remember that I used Midgard's Tooth with Misdirection to poison them until the center one ended up at 1 HP and then switched to having Sakuya just basic attack the "C" I needed poisoned. Wriggle probably would have worked better, but I was running a fixed team. Their combo with Black Universe and "C" Falling from the Sky wasn't that bad if they were all kept at low speeds by Perfect Freeze, although I do remember losing a few party members to it just because the fight took so long.

ZoomyTsugumi

  • zoom zoom
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #246 on: December 27, 2017, 09:02:20 PM »
For Great C, I just pumped Yuuka's defensive capabilities so that she could fairly easily stay on the front line with buffs. Gensokyo Reflowering hits all consistently for high numbers, the original boss dies easily but in the time it takes for you to kill it and let it respawn you can bring it back down to low again by continuing to use GR and then it falls more in line with the health of the others. Then can use flower shot to individually take down some health.

Only problem with this strat was Extra Attack meant individually hurting them and even sometimes using GR was a bit of a gamble in if she'd proc it and then accidentally kill one, so I did employ some assorted other people to help take down some of the straggling health and finished them off with Yuuka.

Spent no time debuffing and didn't reallly capitalize on poison except the occasional one from Mystia's NTR attack. GR however was extremely useful for small boosts in HP to keep everyone topped up after nasty attacks.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #247 on: December 27, 2017, 09:14:16 PM »
All of the "C"s actually have different health scores. The one in the center has the least health. I remember that I used Midgard's Tooth with Misdirection to poison them until the center one ended up at 1 HP and then switched to having Sakuya just basic attack the "C" I needed poisoned. Wriggle probably would have worked better, but I was running a fixed team. Their combo with Black Universe and "C" Falling from the Sky wasn't that bad if they were all kept at low speeds by Perfect Freeze, although I do remember losing a few party members to it just because the fight took so long.

Ugh, is that the case? No wonder it was such a hassle. It makes sense, I did count the damage involved, but I thought they were all identical despite the HP counts clearly not being identical. Pity Akyuu wasn't available that early, she would have made it obvious.

Anyway, one of my targets for runs is to do the boss without losing any characters (I made an allowance for Shadow Youkai Mountain team though, it was the fastest way to beat them), which is why I dislike The Great "C"'s Black Universe so much. It's the only fight where luck is a sole factor involved in whether or not a character gets defeated. I could set the party up to survive 3-4 "C" Falling from the Sky in a row even without MAG debuffs in play, but there is nothing that can be done if Black Universe gets thrown out there.

IRUN

  • Sin Sack
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #248 on: December 28, 2017, 01:37:30 AM »
Culex was hard but doable. What frustrated me the most was the fight with the Desire Eating Demon.

 A lot of it?s attacks inflict various ailments, and on the 4th turn, it will use Empty Mouth That Swallows Sinners, a single target Dark attack that inflicts Death, regardless of resistances.

 After it is used the first time, The Desire Demon will alternate between its status effect attacks and Empty Mouth That Swallows Sinners. My party always gets decimated up to this point in the fight. The boss also has very high HP, Defense, even higher MND and is extremely fast so yeah...

After dying six times to it, I just decided to cheese the fight by shock locking it with Orin and Maribel, with Diva Aya covering for them
I walk one step, and I?m visiting a shrine
I continue two steps, and I?m spirited away
I tread three steps, and I?m playing god
I arrive with four steps, and ****

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #249 on: December 28, 2017, 02:08:24 AM »
Yeah Desire Eating Demon was definitely designed with the expectation that you were going to SHK lock it. With 0 resistance to it it's pretty trivial with that strategy, although I guess designing a boss like that in itself is pretty cheap design. Definitely the most strict in how you have to approach it if you want a no-death run of it, SHK spam is the only viable strategy there. Not all that cool.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #250 on: December 28, 2017, 03:02:39 AM »
 The strategy I usually use against Desire-Eating Demon is to have two strong attackers subbing as monks spamming Iron-Mountain Charge in the rightmost slots while I throw disposable characters as sacrifices in the 2 leftmost slots; with proper equipment, the fact that the boss only uses status attacks means it's basically going to do almost no damage to even very frail characters, so glass-cannons can stay in the front and pump up as much damage as they can without worrying about being killed (in fact, it's probably the only fight where Flandre's Vampiric Wrath can actually come in handy). It's basically a damage race, though like most postgame fights, particular characters (Mokou and Orin/Maribel) just make the fight so much easier.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #251 on: December 31, 2017, 11:23:42 PM »
Holy dung I couldnt log in for like a month.
Started playing this again cuz fantranslation progress on plus disk.

That said I never enjoyed late 2 as much as 1 so I never could be bothered to do the post game... doing it for the first time now... hot damn what a slog. Like every freakin boss I debuff their defenses by 50%. Buff my attack by 60-100%. And most of my party STILL hit for 0s at challenge level.

I actually thought the 4 post bosses to be less of a pain than the azure giant and knowledge boss.

I still have to kill the final boss though. I tried once, seemed to be doing fine but then did something that made me call bs and level up a bit more. Cant recall what.

Really looking forward to plus disk though. I do enjoy the dungeon diving in 2s main game minus grinding for bonus tenshi.

Edit. Oh yeah I forgot to ask. I made genji gloves with a dragons mane. Found the other mane, but zeus armor isnt there to craft. What other materials Do I need?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 03:13:09 AM by Ghaleon »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #252 on: January 01, 2018, 03:24:34 AM »
*2 Hero's Soul
*2 Mysterious Structure
*2 Light Needle

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #253 on: January 01, 2018, 04:40:01 AM »
Thanks!

IRUN

  • Sin Sack
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #254 on: January 02, 2018, 02:25:22 AM »
Don?t bother farming Genji Gloves/Zeus' Armor, as those become outdated as soon as you step into Plus Disk, where +256% ATK equips and +240% MAG equips become semi-common
I walk one step, and I?m visiting a shrine
I continue two steps, and I?m spirited away
I tread three steps, and I?m playing god
I arrive with four steps, and ****

ZoomyTsugumi

  • zoom zoom
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #255 on: January 02, 2018, 04:39:43 AM »
So I finally defeated the Guardian of the Crystals with probably the silliest strategy ever.
Nitori, who is sitting pretty at Level 219 with 84k ATK, managed to kill the entire fight almost singlehandedly.
Strategy was frontline of Meiling/Byakuren/Iku/Nitori to get Nitori up to full ATK buffs almost immediately, before the Guardian can even get a turn. Fire off an Iron Mountain Charge for an easy 300k damage. Then when all the crystals are subbed in I switch Iku for Momiji who was subbed Herbalist, so that I could get the passive ACC buff (Nitori's main equip reduces her ACC considerably in exchange for ATK power) and then with the subclass spells I was able to tack on Herb of Awakening to Nitori every time Momiji got a turn (which was twice since i didn't beef her up so she died fast).
Nitori, who has Overheating as well, naturally piled on the damage with Extending Arm, to the point where on the last hit on the guardian I did 1mil damage, and killed it and the water/wind crystals in one fell swoop. Then it was a simple Waterfall to victory.
I think the enemies all only got 2-3 turns before they got decimated.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #256 on: January 03, 2018, 12:19:01 AM »
Don?t bother farming Genji Gloves/Zeus' Armor, as those become outdated as soon as you step into Plus Disk, where +256% ATK equips and +240% MAG equips become semi-common

Needed for achievement thing... normally I dont care about achievements but they unlock stuff in this game.

Edit: so I beat futo, which took awhile cuz I just reset whenever she would 10 plate full heal but one time I didnt then beat her. I was surprisee how easy she was after struggling so long to get there. I suspect when she 10 plates or super heals she lowers her stats permanently or something. She dropped an egg but not the other item. Not gonna try to get it again.

Is there a reliable source of infinity gems later on? So far ive spent them all on keys. Even still im out of keys but still see 2 locked chests.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 09:48:54 AM by Ghaleon »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #257 on: January 04, 2018, 09:52:03 AM »
Yeah, Infinity Gems are a common item from treasure in the Infinite Corridor, you can even get 10 from one treasure somewhat frequently. Think later floors gave up to 20, don't quite recall.

dawnbomb

  • Adventurer
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #258 on: January 06, 2018, 11:41:04 PM »
im having a hard time grasping library levels in LoT2. in LoT1 on the wiki their clearly called SkillLevels on the wiki, and it provides formulas for them, simple, easy, i get it. i don't get the formula for EXP at all, but i get skill levels.

in LoT2, skill levels aka library levels arn't even on the wiki. and they arn't talked about in the gameplay / stat formulas. i have no idea how they work. there is skillboost, and highskillboost, but not skill levels/library info.  before i sit here and try to make formulas for like 15 hours, anyone happen to already know? like, what determines their cost at a specific level?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 12:32:01 AM by dawnbomb »
There's no way I could love anyone
but i wish to be loved by someone in return

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #259 on: January 07, 2018, 12:50:22 AM »
im having a hard time grasping library levels in LoT2. in LoT1 on the wiki their clearly called SkillLevels on the wiki, and it provides formulas for them, simple, easy, i get it. i don't get the formula for EXP at all, but i get skill levels.

in LoT2, skill levels aka library levels arn't even on the wiki. and they arn't talked about in the gameplay / stat formulas. i have no idea how they work. there is skillboost, and highskillboost, but not skill levels/library info.  before i sit here and try to make formulas for like 15 hours, anyone happen to already know? like, what determines their cost at a specific level?

All I know is that the game has a formula that calculates the "base cost" of how much money is required to advance a stat by one level, and each character has a unique "multiplier" that is multiplied to that base cost in the end. The multiplier is listed as "Library Cost" in the wiki, which denotes the money required to raise an elemental affinity from Lv0 to Lv1. I tried to find the formula for the base cost once, and failed utterly because it grows in a very weird way that doesn't seem to be polynomial at all. If you want to take a stab at it, feel free to do so.

The boost and high boost skills are not related to library levels at all, which is why no one calls library levels "skill levels" in 2. They're just character skills, levelled up using SKP (like the more unique and personal skills) and gives an integer increase to base stats.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #260 on: January 07, 2018, 06:18:46 AM »
So now im at 23f/7b

Im not stuck but I wanna do endless corridor. But I read that you should expect 100 floors+ in a dive for best rewards.

So... i feel like I need to avoid progressing in it until I feel like Im over 100 levels over the 1st floor enemies (if not more). If I want to make the most of it. Opinions?

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #261 on: January 07, 2018, 07:46:24 AM »
Best way to grind the shop items is to just clear out the 100 floors and grind 101f. In the current version, 101f loops infinitely, with the enemies becoming stronger with each loop (resetting when you exit the Corridor). This lets you get as much Seven Star Dust as you want to shop without having to fight any bosses.

Doing all 10 bosses in a single run is definitely a PITA, each boss is 36 levels higher than the last, with the final one being level 600 and significantly harder than the others. Doing it more segmented is easier, but nothing much is really specifically worth purchasing on the way toward 101f, at least imo.

Xarizzar

  • RPG fan
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #262 on: January 07, 2018, 07:36:53 PM »
Yeah, just grind Infinite Corridor Floor 1 for Ironman's headbands/Tetsujin no hachimaki or whatever name the translation used if you want OP equipment. Sometimes you may even get them from chests instead of having to craft them.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #263 on: January 07, 2018, 09:14:23 PM »
 Clearing a lot of floors at once simply gives you more Seven Star Dust to spend on the shop between floors, but most of what you can buy there can also be obtained either from Akyuu, Crafting, from enemy drops, or in Chests (even the most expensive equipments can be obtained from 4-5 exclamation mark chests if you're lucky enough). So most of the time just grinding the same floor (by entering and exiting) to find chests/grind drops can be more rewarding; since I believe you get better rewards the higher the floor, you should just clear floors until you're the same level as the enemies and grind there.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #264 on: January 07, 2018, 09:38:34 PM »
I see thanks. I thought it went up to 1000 not 100.

That sounds more fun yay. So far Ive been doing 1f and exiting a dozen or so times. Oddly enough chests with more !s are crap and the singles are good. Some single loot I got include 4/6 infinity stones, training manuals, fatima, rhodendron dress,etc. Got 2 4!chests. One was a single infinity gem, the other was some page 1 main equipment garbage. Similarly nearly all of my 2 and 3! Chests were pre-plus disk equipment, and not even good ones like ribbon or whatever.

Anyway I just beat mika, frankly she was a joke compared to futa.

Was hina nefed at some point? I recall not using her on my first playthru and people saying things like 1 shotting the final bosd with her and stuff. But when I use painflow with -50 across the board against an enemy with -80ish defenses and weak to dark... it hits hard yes but less so than 3d cannon would or something. Its actually less powerful than a simple patchy concentrated +mag buff nuke.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #265 on: January 07, 2018, 10:18:04 PM »
Hina hasn't been nerfed, no. Think you might be thinking of Parsee for the final boss one-shot.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #266 on: January 08, 2018, 05:11:46 PM »
Rather than nerfing Hina they nerfed Hexer, which was kinda what made her so broken. She could never oneshot the final boss, but she could probably solo it.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #267 on: January 08, 2018, 10:45:30 PM »
I dunno, before the final boss got big buffs in patches Hina might have gotten pretty close to one-shotting it.

She should still be pretty powerful post-awakening though. Really powerful direct damage increase on debuffed enemies (up to 250%, 1% per debuff point) and a good team synergy skill. Of course, right now you can only awaken a few people...
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

IRUN

  • Sin Sack
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #268 on: January 09, 2018, 02:07:01 PM »
250%?! That?s ridiculous, especially when you consider Biorhythm?s high affliction rate; and with Reisen?s Vertigo in play...
I walk one step, and I?m visiting a shrine
I continue two steps, and I?m spirited away
I tread three steps, and I?m playing god
I arrive with four steps, and ****

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F
« Reply #269 on: January 09, 2018, 04:19:55 PM »
Hina was never really a nuke-grade character other than Pain Flow (which, as stated, still just compares to nukes that -don't- require and then wipe all of Hina's debuffs) so honestly, something like that is necessary to keep her offensively relevant compared to just building her for tanky debuffs. Old Lady Ohgane's Fire should be really solid with sorc subclass for 30% extra damage, considering her debuff damage boost ability requires Hina to be using her personal skills.

Also worth considering that, realistically, you'll have more like 120~150% damage boost (spd is hard to debuff, and debuffs decay down from 50% quite fast of course) but that's still more than doubling her damage. Double damage on Hina is just enough to make her a viable offensive option postgame, where you have so many other powerful awakenings and attackers to choose.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore