Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Bardiche on July 11, 2011, 05:14:17 PM
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Welcome to Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia! I am your host, Bardiche. Pesco and Kiro will be joining me in making some sense out of this nonsense.
The following six rules apply at all times during the game:
1) Play to have fun. It is assumed playing to have fun involves playing to win. Any violations of this rule, at our discretion, may result in penalties up to immediate removal from the game.
2) Day phases last 72 hours. Night phases last 24 hours. Any actions not submitted within the Day's 72 hour frame for Day actions, and Night's 24 hour frame for Night actions will be ignored. You may pre-register an action to go off "when the night begins", "when the day begins", but not for any other conditions. Unless a role specifically states otherwise, there is to be no posting at night.
3) You are expected to post content within 24 hours of your last post. Failure to do so results in a prod. Repeated failure to do so results in removal from the game. Posting "content" means that "posting to avoid prod" will not save you from a prod. If you have any reason to not post within the timeframe, message a mod. What is and is not content is up to our discretion.
4) Town does not need to lynch. If a majority votes No Lynch, then No Lynch will be made. If there is no majority by Deadline, we default to No Lynch.
Scum is not required to Night Kill. If Scum does not submit a Night Kill within 24 hours of the Day Phase ending, then Scum defaults to No Night Kill.
5) No contact may be held with players or non-players outside of the game thread unless specifically permitted by a mod or role. Dead players still count as players and are expected to heed this rule still. There will be no Confirmation Bias in my dead peoples.
6) If a mod says it is true, it is true. If we deem you are violating a rule, written or not, you are violating a rule and we will act accordingly.
A few notes:
- As promised, everyone has a power role, and each power role has a use within the game.
- Roles and characters are not linked. Neither are characters and alignments. Neither are alignments and roles.
- Players flip with Role Name and Alignment, but not an explanation of their role. Any exceptions to this are caused by roles.
- The colour in your role PM is your alignment. The bolded part is your role name. If you are unclear what your abilities are, PM me.
- Any and all actions should be sent to all three mods to expedite the process. While we will post actions in the Mod QT, sending it to Kiro, Pesco AND Bardiche will ensure your actions will be received and resolved in a timely manner.
- Please post with your Anonymous account so as to facilitate ISO reads and such.
- Do not commence game until I tell you to.
- A HAMMER ENDS THE DAY PHASE. That means shut up once someone's been voted to Lynch.
Current Player List:
03. Caladbolg
04. Mikhail
07. Depore
Dead People:
01. Just - Ouroboros, Serpent of Knowledge
09. Demon Navarus - Lord of Demons
02. Empress Iffrita - Faithful Empress
12. Sage Orwen - Reknown Sage
08. Prophet Mala - Divination Prophet
06. Xix - Unsealed Evil
11. One - Mercenary
05. Moonin - Oski's Servant
10. Princess Miya - Child
Removed From Game:
13. Yuan - Barrier Master
Current phase: Night 4
Links to flips:
Just was lynched D1. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676958.html#msg676958)
Demon Navarus was killed N1. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677516.html#msg677516)
Empress Iffrita was erased D2. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679418.html#msg679418)
Sage Orwen was lynched D2. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679771.html#msg679771)
Prophet Mala was killed N2. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679997.html#msg679997)
Yuan was modkilled D3. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg681294.html#msg681294)
Xix was lynched D3. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg681812.html#msg681812)
One was killed N3. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg682215.html#msg682215)
Moonin was lynched D4. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg683355.html#msg683355)
Princess Miya was killed N4. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg683486.html#msg683486)
PLAYER LIST AND ROLES (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg683592.html#msg683592)
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/Confirmed
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☆〜（ゝ。∂） Ta-da! Were you surprised?! Confirming~☆
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Confirmin'
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Confirmed.
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Confirmed
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This just occured to me as a note inbetween: anyone who wants to know about their character for roleplay purposes can PM me to request the information. Far be it from me to deny you vital information to veiling your identity. Or not.
Proceed as you will.
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/me confirms.
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Confirmed
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Confirmed
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Confirmed
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Confirmed
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/confirm
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Confirmation from 11/13? Good enough for me.
Game Day 1 commences now.
You have 72 hours to decide on a lynch. If no lynch is reached by then, no lynch will occur.
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So how is everyone?
I myself am doing fine.
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Anyway, first, just to avoid all the bullshit that will undoubtedly ensue, I'm UncertainKitten. It's not like I could hide it anyway.
Second, ##Vote Bard
So, he knows who all the scum are, right? But he's not being very forthcoming with this information. THEREFORE HE HAS SCUM INTENT IN NOT REVEALING THE SCUM! Let's quicklynch him and go to D2, kay?
Derpore is town.
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EBWOP: >.< DEPORE. I totally misread the name, I apologize.
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##Vote Demon Navarus for misreading my name.
It's nothing really.
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##Vote: Yuan
For lurking through confirmation phase.
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##Vote:Just for stealing the mod's avatar.
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/useless confirm
##Vote: One
They are number one to confirm, number one in name, number one in my heart. <3
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That Just guy is cute... A little too cute if you ask me.
##Vote Just
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##Vote Prophet Mala
for having a post before mine
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Friendly reminder: bold your votes.
Votecount the First: Joke's On Me[/b]
Navarus (1): Depore
Yuan (1): Orwen
Just (2): Book of the Long Name I Don't Want To Type Out, Mala
One (1): Yuan
Mala (1): One
Not Voting: Everyone else
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have 71 hours, 30 minutes until Night 1.
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Mod, you forgot to count my vote for Bardiche
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What the hell is wrong with you guys?!
Start killing the scum.
##Vote: Just
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Hmm, mister, you look like you could be mine! I'll keep you in eternity to call you my own~
##Vote: Xix
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Oh Xix-kun let's not fight (⌒▽⌒)~☆
Can't we just be friends? When I inherit Chaos, you can be my slave boy~☆
##Vote: Xix
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/firmly confirmed
##Vote Book of the Past
May Chaos bind and seal you
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I've been
carving womanly pleasures into the bodies of men divining and the stars tell me that there is a good chance that Just is conspiring together with several others to destroy Chaos itself. I suggest eliminating him before he does the same to us.
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Votecount the Second: Pretty in Pink
Navarus (1): Depore
Yuan (1): Orwen
Just (3): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix
One (1): Yuan
Mala (1): One
Xix (2): Miya, Just
Book of the Past (1): Mikhail
Not Voting: Navarus, Iffrita, Moonin
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 67 hours until Night 1.
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##Unvote
##Vote Prophet Mala
I think Mala likes divining her reads a little too much.
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##Vote: Xix
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Yanno, Sage's latest post bugs me a rather lot.
##Vote Sage Orwen
Just wagon does interest me slightly, particularly given there's actually a viable counterwagon with Xix. Granted, this being RVS bullshit doesn't help much, but I can't say I've seen this particular voting pattern often...I haven't the slightest what it means though.
(Also, seriously? Barely two pages in 18 hours?)
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Nav-tan should turn his thinking around~ Why isn't Xix-kun the wagon with me as the counterwagon?
I know its hard to notice him with me around but still~☆
What stars have you been reading Mala? If I destroy Chaos then who will serve me? No conspiracies here ヾ(＠⌒ー⌒＠)ノ We can work together if you want to sign my contract~
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##Unvote
With the beginning phase over, it is time to search for the information in which shall be used to destroy the enemies of my Love.
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Ugh...ruined it again
##Unvote
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##Vote Prophet Mala
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675292.html#msg675292) strikes me as unnecessarily vague enough that I want to press Mala on it. Is she trying to tell us something she knows, or is she just trying to push a jokevote wagon further? It seems like her post was left this way on purpose, and town has nothing to gain from confusing others. Want to hear a clarification from her.
Even though I desire a post from the prophet too, Sage Orwen's vote on her mystifies me because I can not tell whether he is joking or is genuinely attempting to create an ED1 case. We shouldn't be letting RP get in the way of our clarity, guys.
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@Iffrita: Your vote is awful. Why do you need to know a damned thing about Mala's statement with her vote for Just? If it's concrete information, there's CLEARLY a reason she's not saying that. If it's not concrete information, as far as I can tell people aren't falling over themselves to vote Just for her.
Why are you rolefishing?
(I also get a bad feeling from your Orwen suspicion, but I'm not going to press that right now since as things stand you are somewhat consistent)
@One: When did we get out of RVS? Has there been an interestingly scummy enough post been made? If so, why aren't you voting? If not, why are you declaring RVS over without putting anything out there except an unvote? To be clear I don't get a scummy vibe from it, just a bad play vibe.
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Votecount the Third
Navarus (1): Depore
Just (3): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix
One (1): Yuan
Mala (2): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Xix (3): Miya, Just, Moonin
Book of the Past (1): Mikhail
Orwen (1): Navarus
Yuan (0): Orwen
Not Voting: One
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 51 hours and 30 minutes until Night 1.
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@One: When did we get out of RVS? Has there been an interestingly scummy enough post been made? If so, why aren't you voting? If not, why are you declaring RVS over without putting anything out there except an unvote? To be clear I don't get a scummy vibe from it, just a bad play vibe.
Its been out of voting stage when you made a post with more a serious intent then what has been going on.
An for the answer for your second question, I declared an unvote due to the fact that I felt RVS will end soon, and i wished to take a neutral stance asap.
There was no real reason other then a nuetral stance.
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Not sure how I feel about that. Anyway, stuff has happened. RVS is getting to be over. Do you have *any* opinions of anyone at all, or are you going to sit there without a vote and stare at the topic?
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@Iffrita: Your vote is awful. Why do you need to know a damned thing about Mala's statement with her vote for Just? If it's concrete information, there's CLEARLY a reason she's not saying that. If it's not concrete information, as far as I can tell people aren't falling over themselves to vote Just for her.
Why are you rolefishing?
It seems like she is being vague in a situation where she has nothing to gain from being vague. Her post was downright redundant with her vote already down and it looked unnatural for her to suddenly push the Just wagon further because of previously unexplained "divine readings". I do not believe that town should ever want to keep people guessing with their posts, and I want Mala to return and elaborate on why she even bothered to make that post.
Fairly difficult to defend against "Why are you rolefishing?" when the intention of my vote was just to get an explanation from her, but for the sake of giving you something to chew on, I'll point out the following: If Mala has some sort of precognitions telling her Just is scum, then sharing them openly would actually benefit us a lot more than it would benefit scum, considering that she has no real need to say anything else about her role. Assuming Mala does have role information about Just, then she was obviously not being shy about it if she was indeed "trying to tell us something", meaning that any role information coming into play would most likely not be something she is trying to keep from scum. Because of this, I felt there was no real harm in tossing the possibility of her having role information around after it came to mind, but I suppose that mentioning the roles of other players in general comes off as taboo to some people.
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There are many forms of information. I highly doubt that Mala would have been directly told Just is scum. If it's role related, it's soft enough so that claiming would likely be detrimental, but she'd have to make that call.
As I said, I can think of town intent behind being vague. I actually see very little scum intent since it's unnecessarily drawing attention to her when she could easily have coasted her random vote on Just (which took place *before* her claim of divine insight). Exhorting the wagon the way she did makes little sense as scum.
In the end I think Mala needs to make the call whether elaboration is necessary, and stick to it.
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Exhorting the wagon the way she did makes little sense as scum.
I can't say I entirely agree with this. My initial hypothesis was that she could have potentially been trying to goad players into wagon jumping so that scum would have easy targets to jump on, but seeing as nobody actually listened to her, it's difficult to tell.
I do concur that it is probably best to wait for her to return.
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My divining abilities wouldn't let me find scum that early in the game. I was simply using that to see if I could get any reactions out of people.
Speaking of reactions I do have to agree with Demon Navarus. You claim that you weren't rolefishing but I see no possible way for me to clarify what I meant by that without mentioning what role I do or do not have.
@One: You've unvoted and claimed that the RVS is over. Who do you find suspicious?
@Everyone else: Talking is good and pro-town so you should totally do it too.
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Another thing I find weird: Demon Navarus seems somewhat overdedicated in defending me. Why is that?
##Unvote
##Vote Demon Navarus
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Cuz you're probably town. If you don't like you can vo...oh wait.
So then, is Iffrita still town despite the rolefishing?
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##Unvote
##Vote: Moonin
Do I have to rip your mouth off your face or are you going to use it? Even a half assed garbage reason for a vote would be better.
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@One: You've unvoted and claimed that the RVS is over. Who do you find suspicious?
If your going by suspicious, then pretty much everyone is suspicious at the moment.
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Now, Now, No need to be so rude.
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@Demon Navarus: I have some suspicions but I think that your random defence of me is worse at this point. We'll see as the day progresses.
@One: You've stated that you wish to take a neutral stance. Do you know who else likes to take neutral stances? Scum. Because neutral stances give them flexibility with which wagon you want to be on. Opinions. Everyone is suspicious. Who is the most suspicious to you right now?
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@One: Why are they suspicious?
@Mala: It's not a random defense of you. I defend my town reads. As I said, if you don't like it, you can vote me for it. You've chosen to do so. Not much I can say about that. And yes, I get town reads quickly. You're pretty much proving me right thus far.
@Moonin: Is that really all you have to contribute? More stuff has happened. Who's scum?
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EBWOP: Not to mention I also rather disliked the methods being used against you.
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@Xix: For somebody that wants to poke somebody for not contributing much to the topic so far you're doing very little yourself. All you have is your confirmation, a random vote, and a prod on Moonin for not adding anything to the topic.
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##Unvote
##Vote Xix
Wow, you pretty much just waltzed in on a serious discussion, voted one of the easiest targets, and left! Moonin's vote may essentially be nothing, but it's still equal in contribution to several other votes that were being made at the time, and the lack of words just makes it a target for people who don't want to actually analyze posts. Where are your other opinions, and why did you not reveal them in the first chance you got? If your post had been made before Mala had returned I could possibly understand, but as it stands you have no real excuse.
@Mala: I find your explanation clear enough, but your opinions on me in your returning post look odd. You say that my post made it difficult for you to clarify "what you meant by (your post) without mentioning what role you do or do not have", and yet... you pretty much did just that, disproving your own argument. Also, telling other people to do something helpful is a pretty good way for scum to try to sound subliminally pro-town without actually pushing players directly and getting involved. Yeah, despite unvoting you I'm still not your biggest fan, though I guess this may possibly be biased by my original vote on you.
@Mala #51: What do you think about Xix? Scum on D1 would much rather be pushing players they can get lynched early than remaining completely neutral and drawing suspicion for doing nothing, and the only real major between the content One and Xix have produced is Xix's vote on an easy wagon. HERP got cut by Mala addressing Xix, but my case on Xix is still a little different so yeah I want a reply. This opens up a new question for Mala, how would she prioritize Xix in comparision to Navarus?
@Navarus: does Mala's vote on you affect your read on her? I parsed your #52 as you saying you are becoming more sure of your town read on her. Would be nice to know where you're coming from at this point, since I've been reading you as town but have been finding Mala's content to be somewhat lackluster.
@Moonin: Post more please, I want to be able to develop a proper read on you. Bonus points if it's worthy content.
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She's asking good questions. I have more reasons beyond that for my town read that I'd prefer to keep quiet. It's not role related stuff, before you go off on that tangent. Her vote on me is fairly inconsequential.
I gotta say I'm liking the Xix case, but I want Orwen to post before I throw myself at it.
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@One: You've stated that you wish to take a neutral stance. Do you know who else likes to take neutral stances? Scum. Because neutral stances give them flexibility with which wagon you want to be on. Opinions. Everyone is suspicious. Who is the most suspicious to you right now?
While that may be true, there are also people who just passively like defending...which could also be misunderstood as masochist by some people...since they do not believe they have the skills to assault someone.
The most suspicious would really...well I don't have any solid reasons but I would find Moonin and Xix and well...people with no posts that may apply to the discussion in either a positive or negative manner.
@One: Why are they suspicious?
Information is ...vital... which means people who post the least have the highest or lowest chances of avoiding fire by others. Less posts mean less information on them, which leads to less of a idea on what their alignment is, which also leads to a suspicious conclusion.
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Nav-tan did something interesting just now~☆
There are many forms of information. I highly doubt that Mala would have been directly told Just is scum. If it's role related, it's soft enough so that claiming would likely be detrimental, but she'd have to make that call.
As I said, I can think of town intent behind being vague. I actually see very little scum intent since it's unnecessarily drawing attention to her when she could easily have coasted her random vote on Just (which took place *before* her claim of divine insight). Exhorting the wagon the way she did makes little sense as scum.
In the end I think Mala needs to make the call whether elaboration is necessary, and stick to it.
You realize you accused Iffri-chan of rolefishing then encouraged Mala to answer the fishing? I know she's got nothing cause I ain't scum, man! ┐('～`；)┌
You could have just asked me~☆
You shouldn't have done this and I pontificate that you are experienced enough to have known better. Don't be suspicious Nav-tan~☆
The most suspicious would really...well I don't have any solid reasons but I would find Moonin and Xix and well...people with no posts that may apply to the discussion in either a positive or negative manner.
People with no posts that may apply to the discussion in either a positive or negative manner. I.E. Neutral. I.E. you? I cannot argue with your superior logic. Could you tell us who your buddies are so the next day is this easy~☆
##Unvote
##Vote: One
Xix-kun is trying to sound manly again ooh~☆
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Just, you know I already said I was UK, right? Secondly, I never encouraged Mala to elaborate. I said she should make her own call on it. I'd kindly appreciate you not misrepping me.
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Votecount the Fourth
Navarus (1): Depore, Mala
Just (1): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix
One (2): Yuan, Just
Mala (1): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Xix (3): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita
Book of the Past (1): Mikhail
Orwen (1): Navarus
Moonin (1): Xix
Yuan (0): Orwen
Not Voting: One
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 48 hours until Night 1.
I have sent prods to Depore, Yuan and Book of the Past. I am unhappy with these players.
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##Unvote
##Vote:Xix
Your lack of good reason and aggressive language are very suspicious to me. You shouldn't vote other people for something you are guilty of too. Very Scummy behaviour.
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@Empress Iffrita:
Also, telling other people to do something helpful is a pretty good way for scum to try to sound subliminally pro-town without actually pushing players directly and getting involved.
@Moonin: Post more please, I want to be able to develop a proper read on you. Bonus points if it's worthy content.
:V
Difficult doesn't mean impossible. In regards to Xix how come you're comparing him to One? I think I'd like to see Xix go more than Demon Navarus though since I can see his actions as being more scum motivated.
##Unvote
##Vote Xix
I don't like the fact that half the votes on Xix are random votes though.
@One: Information is vital indeed. You find Xix and Moonin suspicious but lack any solid reasoning. Do you have any reasoning at all? And does suspicious equate to scummy in your head?
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Wagon on Xix picked up amazingly fast. I'll be really interested in his response.
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@Depore: You're looking pretty opportunistic there. Do you have opinions on people other than the guy who the currently growing wagon is on?
@Mala: That's not the same thing, actually! What you were doing was just sending out an open message to all players. I confronted somebody directly, which can actually be traced as an interaction with them later on. Also, I was comparing Xix to One because you were attacking One when at the time, both were not providing opinions on the discussion surrounding them and the only real difference between their content was Xix hopping on an easy wagon. ... It made sense to me when I posted it! Speaking of which.
RE: One case: yeah, uh, I'm not seeing it. Just's vote on One bugs me in the same manner of Xix's vote on Moomin because what One is posting is kind of content you see from confuzzled townies who don't know how to vote properly, not scum who are trying to avoid being tied to opinions. I think that scum!One would be more likely to produce some names then waffle back on them instead of just throwing out some potential targets. I do want him to elaborate on his Moomin and Xix suspicions and slam down a vote, though.
Also, guys, Xix is currently at L-2. Just throwing that out there for the sake of caution.
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People with no posts that may apply to the discussion in either a positive or negative manner. I.E. Neutral. I.E. you? I cannot argue with your superior logic.
Your right, I totally contradicted myself. Goes to show what I would know.
@One: Information is vital indeed. You find Xix and Moonin suspicious but lack any solid reasoning. Do you have any reasoning at all? And does suspicious equate to scummy in your head?
I find Moonin suspicious for the short and vague response on Xix voting on him, he did not attempt to defend and just shrugs it off like it mean't nothing.
I find Xix suspicious due to the fact even though he had 3 votes on him at the time, he does not have a case in which he defends himself, but instead focuses on Moonin.
Therefore I have decided :
##Vote Xix
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##Unvote
##FoS Xix
Because L-1.
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Are you friggen serious? That's L-1. Claim, Xix.
And One suddenly becomes a lot more suspicious.
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Votecount the Fifth
Just (1): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix
One (2): Yuan, Just
Mala (1): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Xix (5): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One
Book of the Past (1): Mikhail
Orwen (1): Navarus
Moonin (1): Xix
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Yuan (0): Orwen
Not Voting: Mala
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 47 hours until Night 1.
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@Navarus: Why would he need to claim? Two of the votes on him aren't even serious. Sure, a majority of the town dislikes him, myself included, but he hasn't even come back to defend himself yet. You do realize that this game has a 72-hour D1 unlike most of the recent Mafias here, right?
@One: I'm having trouble understanding why you think Xix is worse than Moomin from what you said about the two. All three of Xix's original votes were jokes, while the vote on Moomin was serious. Also, pay attention to how many votes a player has before voting them in the future, putting somebody at L-1 when we're only a third of the way into D1 is not a very good idea.
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Theoretically the claim should happen at L-2 with 13 players. Also consider the fact that I don't like him but want to get an Orwen answer first to be registering my discomfort with him. He's clearly done bad enough so he's a viable lynch. I find the fact that we have a viable lynch candidate within 24 hours to be an actually *good* thing. It means we aren't scrambling if Xix pops out a provably town claim.
Is there a particular reason claim pressure needs to happen 2 hours before deadline?
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Just because I think having claim pressure right now would be somewhat premature doesn't mean that I would want it to happen two hours before deadline. It just seems odd to have him claim right now when five people (Mikhail, Book of the Past, Sage Orwen, Yuan, Princess Miya, Moonin) don't even have clear opinions, especially considering that Xix only has four to five or so votes against him at the moment. I wouldn't fully oppose Xix claiming right now, but I still want to see more people return to voice their opinions on him before we actually force him to do so.
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@One: I'm having trouble understanding why you think Xix is worse than Moomin from what you said about the two. All three of Xix's original votes were jokes, while the vote on Moomin was serious. Also, pay attention to how many votes a player has before voting them in the future, putting somebody at L-1 when we're only a third of the way into D1 is not a very good idea.
I...see...I'll keep that in mind.
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Whatthe helljust happened!?!?
Moonin. Easy target, in ED1? What's different about that, everyone would pick on the person who stands out. And he stands out because he has said absolutely nothing. Lack of information is anti-Chaos. Anti-Chaos is not helpful. Even throwing out a random reason with a vote gives more information, as you can discern motive from that. Sure, I'm asking somebody to do something, but this is a person who has done less than other people who have done nothing!
Anyways, you want what I think? Fine, here ya go.
Mala's 29 does indeed feel like a strange unnecessary push for a wagon. And some role-playing
Iffrita, your wording on 37 is terrible. Agree with Navarus during that little bout between you two.
As for the timing of my post, that was started before the Mala posts, but :effort: :dealwithit:
Meanwhile, Navarus, why don't you feel like throwing your hat into these messes? It seems like you're trying to look like you're in the case, but will talk about it if it feels right.
Now to deal with these damn cuts, cue the first line in this post. Man, why am I wasting time dealing with cuts when they should be spent on killing Nex! This damn crow shouting next to me isn't helping. Wait...
What do you mean eight cuts?!
Someone is clearly having fun with Ouroboros. I got nothing on Just for now.
Depore: Yeah, this is the person you should be voting for Noah Iffrita, with the reasoning you're using on me. Me, jumping on to an easy wagon? A person who had NO VOTES?!?! Seriously, jumping on to the only wagon without explaining a reason?
Mala: Exact same damn thing, except she doesn't actually give an damn reasoning on this vote.
Alright Oski, I'm hitting post, sheesh. Annoying little...
WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN SIX MORE CUTS?!
One: I was giving you a pass for being a newbie, but what is this? You want me to defend against RANDOM VOTES?!
Oh look, reasonable posts. Wait, you want me to claim because I'm at L-1 when 1/3rd of those are random votes? Good job, trying to get me to reveal my role. There should be no reason why I'm even at L-1 in the first place.
Empress Noah saying what I just said.
And just hit...
Two more cuts. I hate everything.
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I think Mala looks suspicious. My first impression of her divining was that she was playing in character; Just seems to be plotting against the throne in the story, so it would make sense to vote for Just on that basis (likewise, since in the story divination is powered by sex with her guard, Orwen, I voted her for likely her "job" too much). That reasoning, apparently, no longer holds. However, her hinting that she does have divining abilities worries me a little, since the mod has stated that roles and characters are not linked. Furthermore, I don't really like her vote on Demon Navarus, because while she found Navarus's defense of herself suspicious, she doesn't mention Navaris's defense of Depore.
I'm also really not liking the wagon on Xix, nor I'm I fond of Mala's. Xix had a point on Moonin (though a hypocritical one), and there are quite a few lurkers I would like some more out of. Furthermore, Xix hadn't made a post since Mala's 51 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675740.html#msg675740), so I would like to know what changed her mind since them. Heck, the last three votes on Xix by Mala, Depore, and One all strike me as suspicious and in need of backing.
That doesn't mean Xix's off the hook. He's still a hypocrite even if he's right, and I am also interested in his response to his wagon. Actually, Depore, Moonin, and Xix are all guilty of giving limited one liners, and that's before we get to the non-posters, which makes them all hard to judge.
One should explain why he placed Xix at L-1. I found the act suspicious, possibly scummy. And I somewhat agree with Navarus; it would be best for town for Xix to give his claim while giving town enough time to turn his wagon around if we believe it. I don't think it needs to be done immediately though, because if he's town content from him may be sufficient to turn his wagon around considering his lack of content so far. I do think sometime in the next 24 hours would be preferable if he's still at L-2. We are not waiting until 2 hours before deadline to ask for a claim when he's already at L-2, with with a 6th player FoSing him.
-3 Cuts-
I'm going to respond to those posts after I put this out.
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Fair enough Iffrita. I'll cede that.
@Xix: I feel more comfortable putting pressure on Orwen, that he needs to respond to.
Hrm...I like Orwen a lot better now
##Unvote, Vote One
That vote was awful. Why Xix over Moonin?
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@Sage Orwen: When I mentioned Xix in #54 I already had suspicions on him. I switched to him because I liked the case on him more than Demon Navarus. I had been intending to switch earlier than I did in #62 but a few things came up.
In regards to One I'm actually reading him as derp(town?).
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@Xix: Yeah, your reaction doesn't exactly make me want to move my vote. You skipped over the most significant part of my case on you, which was how you made your vote when serious discussion about various players (myself, Orwen and Mala) was going on and yet did not contribute towards it at all in favor of the easy target nobody was prioritizing. You essentially avoided giving opinions on the biggest names at the time, which in turn gave us less to judge you on. This fits scum's agenda of attempting to avoid attention.
Regarding you claims that I should be voting Depore, Depore at least made her stance on a player who had importance to the discussion at the time and was not as easy as the guy who just voted without posting any words, so I thought she looked better than you at the time of her post. I still want to hear back from her about her opinions on other players, however.
Aside from that, your post reads as very reportery to me. You're lightly touching on several issues, but there's a lack of actual conclusions on each and by the end of the day your post is still sitting on Moonin even though your case on him has not advanced at all. Satisfied seeing you hanged today.
@Navarus: Are you still disliking Xix after his response, or did it answer most of your qualms about him? Since you just jumped over to One, all I'm left with is an assumption. Also, how's your town read on Depore holding up?
Regarding One... eh. I initially thought I had a fairly strong town read on him, but the way he awkwardly prioritized his cases on Moomin and Xix so that he could place Xix on L-1 then completely brushed me aside when I pointed it out doesn't look that great to me. Want to see him explain why he wanted Xix gone over Moomin originally, and whether that still holds up or not now that Xix has responded.
Orwen's post looks pretty solid to me. I'm leaning town on him now, actually, since the one thing I found iffy about him earlier was explained.
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Depore is still town that needs to post way the fuck more. Still suspicious of Xix, want to pressure One, I don't feel comfortable putting Xix at L-1.
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So you're saying that scum is more likely to ignore the current topic and try to get something started on someone, than going "I like this wagon" and doing what others are doing, blending in and pushing a wagon? On day 1? ???
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Even though both of these things push for the lynches of easy targets in the current situation, one of these them is significantly less likely to draw town's attention and votes. Scum does not want to draw town's attention and votes, and giving opinions on the current topic gives them more of a chance to slip up. I think you look worse than Depore because of this. I feel that Moonin was an easier target than you were, too.
Of course, I can't really get a good read on what Depore was even trying to do because she hasn't posted since her initial vote. Considering that I think her vote was on scum, I might be slightly biased.
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@Xix: I wasn't jumping on an easy wagon. There was only 1 serious vote at the time.
"What's different about that, everyone would pick on the person who stands out."
I picked someone who stood out. You! You didn't say much and just gave an easy reason for voting Moonin.
But I must admit that Moonin should post more and with more information.
"Depore: Yeah, this is the person you should be voting for Noah Iffrita, with the reasoning you're using on me."
Now you're just deflecting the heat off you right onto me insted of making a proper defense.
Come back when you have cooled down and have some evidence.
@Orwen:
"Furthermore, I don't really like her vote on Demon Navarus, because while she found Navarus's defense of herself suspicious, she doesn't mention Navaris's defense of Depore."
That probably wasn't for my defense, it was probably just a statement of opinion whether serious or not.
@One:
"The most suspicious would really...well I don't have any solid reasons but I would find Moonin and Xix and well...people with no posts that may apply to the discussion in either a positive or negative manner"
I know you thought you worded it wrong but what did you actually mean by this sentence?
5 cuts.
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As for opinions I'm getting on that.
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Ufu! Time to enlighten you as to what I think now~
One: Super cool waffle there one-san! 57 And then we have some content that isn't just an unsure blab... which consists of putting Xix at L-1 when your case really isn't that solid... Tsk tsk. You are now a lot more scummy.
Moonin-san~ I think what you are doing (besides nothing <3) is just provoking Xix. This would be passable if you had other actual content, but nope~! You have literally done nothing but provoke Xix. I would like some words from you about people, until then you are suspicious.
Oh my Xix! What makes you so uppity? You being placed at L-1 for some really weak cases is making me question things. I mean really. I would like everyone with a vote on Xix right now to now explain what. exactly. is so bad about him? It's like he's the easy case of the day people can drive by and smash on. His reaction to me reads as flustered townie. I want everyone on Xix to now look around, and restate clearly all the points about Xix and why he's scum.
##Unvote:
Depore! Can just get away with the drive by thing on Xix that I talked about and not say anything else. Really! Your jump on him without any other words on anyone else make you look bad Depore-chan. You are also suspicious.
Sage mah dear, Can you clarify this stuff for me please~? Do you not think Xix is scum? Or do you just think the wagon formed on him is a bad one with bad reasoning and if he is still scummy to you, why is he scum? It may just be that you posted without looking at Xix's resonse but these opinions seem outdated now can you update them?
Ohhhh Prophet Mala! You have a derp read on One. Is it a townie derp read or scummy derp read?
@Mala: I find your explanation clear enough, but your opinions on me in your returning post look odd. You say that my post made it difficult for you to clarify "what you meant by (your post) without mentioning what role you do or do not have", and yet... you pretty much did just that, disproving your own argument. Also, telling other people to do something helpful is a pretty good way for scum to try to sound subliminally pro-town without actually pushing players directly and getting involved. Yeah, despite unvoting you I'm still not your biggest fan, though I guess this may possibly be biased by my original vote on you.
HMMM? Empress I do not understand what you are trying to convey here. Because Ms. Mala clarified things for you, she's bad for it? Also, make up your mind. Do you still agree that the ideas you let out here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675666.html#msg675666) make Mala scummy or not?
##Vote: Empress Iffrita
Your new Depore point does not impress me. Depore has talked about 1 person, the easy wagon and you are slamming Xix still for doing the same thing? Ufufufu, what? There seems to be some hypocracy going on with your thinking, mommy.
Dink: I'll address you Depore in another post~
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My children, ease your minds, and let the Chaos fill your souls.
I too have learned that sometimes lurkers are simply not available until a specifc time each day. With peace of mind I will come to express my true feelings shortly.
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Detach your filthy fingers from my spine, earthly knave. I will not have my delicate pages soiled by one as bastardly as you.
The Singular One radiates derp, what with the syntax failures, blatant active lurking without any attempt to hide it, and the push of a wagon to L-1 barely 24 hours into the day. While the play is bad, I can't find the vote to be scum-motivated, because it brings inordinate suspicion onto him with little to no gain. He reads more like derptown to me, and I wouldn't support a vote on him today. The Singular One should elaborate on other suspects though, and perhaps even answer the questions of others who have queried him.
I find Xix suspicious, and to answer Miya's query, it is because he's all talk with no substance. Post #73 is practically incomprehensible, and in any case I can't get any opinions from it even after rereading it. Miya, what makes you think Xix is town?
In any case, I disagree with the sentiment that Xix should claim (at least, not until the last 24 hours of the day). Instead, Xix should be getting back here and giving actual opinions on people. Enough with the shotgun attacks. Do you think Moonin is the best vote out of everybody you're mentioned? Right now it looks like you're just picking an easy place to part your vote.
Ah, I see Orwen is holding on to his vote on Mala, but his reasoning is incredibly weak. First half of the first paragraph is irrelevant. As I read it, his case boils down to, ~role speculation~ and this gem:
Furthermore, I don't really like her vote on Demon Navarus, because while she found Navarus's defense of herself suspicious, she doesn't mention Navaris's defense of Depore.
Please point out this defence.
All in all, it's a rather weak case, and I found the rest of post #74 to be rather fluffy. There are points to be made on Mala (which I will touch on in my next post), but Orwen declines to mention any of these points.
I'm also really not liking the wagon on Xix, nor I'm I fond of Mala's.
But aren't you the only person on the Mala wagon?
In any case,
##Unvote
##Vote:Orwen
More in a few hours.
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Just some quick opinions:
Xix:Bad reasoning with low content. His second last post had a larger amount of content though. Also needs to tone his
aggressiveness down (I'm okay if it's in character).
One: I think One needs to put a whole lot more content in his posts. He should also think his words out a bit more
otherwise they become confusing.
Moonin: Post more!
Book of the Past: Good Scumhunting with good reasoning, content and attention to detail.
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Miya, I disagree with you that Xix's response to being placed at L-1 looks like a flustered townie. It seems more like something flustered scum would do, because he's throwing out weak points without giving any clear opinions in his post. Still, since you wanted me to re-establish my case on him, I'll go and do so:
- Not only was Moonin a very easy target at the time Xix jumped on him, but the case itself was actually minimal. Lacking reasons for a early D1 vote of all things doesn't actually make somebody scum, especially considering that a majority of the votes that do have reasons are going to be for around equal worth. Xix's attack was shoddy overall and basically utilized reasoning that
- The lack of any other opinions from Xix in his first post basically serves to emphasize the first post. There was serious discussion when he posted, and yet he chose to neglect it in favor of attacking an easy target for something that wasn't really a scum tell. This gives town less to snag him on.
- Even now that Xix has finally returned, his vote is sticking down on Moonin, which looks awful considering that I felt the original vote was somewhat of a park. All of Xix's other opinions have been quick, reporter-y attacks that do little to reveal his priorities or whether or not he would actually accept seeing them hanged today.
None of what Depore has done looks worse than this to me, so I don't see why Xix is expecting me to vote her instead. Back when their content was roughly equal, I was obviously not going to switch to Depore when Xix had yet to respond to my original case on him, and I felt that Depore was the lesser of the two evils as a result of having more meat to her case on Xix than Xix had on his case on Moonin. I could see Depore as scum and would not particularly object to her lynch today, it's just that Xix has the same problems as her to a worse extent. I would much rather him be the one we send to the gallows for now, unless Depore starts looking a lot more horrible after she gives her next post.
As for Mala, no, of course I do not still think my initial reasons for attacking her still make her scummy when she clarified herself. Still, the way she threw out an attack against me despite solving said attack in the same post rubbed me the wrong way, as did the way she threw out activity prods towards the players in general instead of nudging specific players and potentially getting reactions. It seemed to me that she could have just been faking townieness with the latter of these actions, which isn't really a good thing. One slight issue I have with her is the way she jumped on to Xix's wagon, as she expressed suspicion of Xix fairly early but waited until Depore and I had placed our votes their before she did the same. Looks like potential opportunism. Aside from that and the other aforementioned reasons for my negative read on her, I've felt that she seems pro-active enough that I most likely wouldn't lynch her over Xix today as is, but I am still wary of her posts.
Cut by Depore.
...
Yeah, um, I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to convey here. I know you think Xix is scum based on where your vote is, but what about One and Moonin? Your post expressed irritation towards them, but I can't tell which of the players you would actually want lynched. I'm assuming that you're not fully familiar with this game.
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One and Moonin I'm not too sure of at the moment but I'm leaning slightly towards scum.
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I'm a pissed off zombie who will stop at nothing until I kill Regis Nex. Yes it's character.
Cut by Iffritia so I guess I might as well... Oska, shut the hell up!
Moonin is still my best choice, since he still has yet to speak of anything, despite the fact that he was here when I voted for him. Active lurking, maybe?
Wait, is that Nex's transport? I'll be back, after I kill the bastard!
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I find Xix suspicious due to the fact even though he had 3 votes on him at the time, he does not have a case in which he defends himself, but instead focuses on Moonin.
I find you suspicious for putting Xix at L-1 simply because he couldn't think of a better way to respond to a case that I never even made.
[b\##Unvote: Xix
##Vote: One[/b]
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##Unvote: Xix
##Vote: One
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Votecount the Sixth - You're All Black and White! You're All Scum!!!
One (4): Yuan, Just, Navarus, Moonin
Mala (1): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Xix (3): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One
Book of the Past (1): Mikhail
Orwen (1): Navarus, Book of the Past
Moonin (1): Xix
Iffrita (1): Miya
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Yuan (0): Orwen
Just (0): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix
Not Voting: Mala
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 44 hours and 20 minutes until Night 1.
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##Vote Moonin
First post: third vote on Xix's wagon with no reasoning. Opportunistic much? Second post: Random comment at Xix that doesn't impact gameplay in any way. Active lurking much? Third post: One liner vote on One. Fourth on the wagon. Opportunistic much?
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And I don't like the wagon on One at all.
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Elaborate, Mala? About your opinions on One. One's lack of explanation is disturbing.
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I'm reading One as derptown. Call me naive if you want but I'm sticking with this read for now.
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##Unvote, Vote One
That vote was awful. Why Xix over Moonin?
I could also ask you why "Not" Moonin?.
But to answer your question...
I chose Xix over the fact that even though he had votes on him, he mostly ignored them and tried to drive attention to another person, though this concide with the fact that I had assumed the votes on Xix were actually serious votes, and not joke.
Regarding One... eh. I initially thought I had a fairly strong town read on him, but the way he awkwardly prioritized his cases on Moomin and Xix so that he could place Xix on L-1 then completely brushed me aside when I pointed it out doesn't look that great to me. Want to see him explain why he wanted Xix gone over Moomin originally, and whether that still holds up or not now that Xix has responded.
I had initial not understood the meaning of L-2 till Demon Navarus's "L-1"
As I commented to Demon Navarus's question. I Assumed that the votes of Xix we're serious.
I can't say I still want him dead. But the vote I assume would do better staying on Xix.
@One:"The most suspicious would really...well I don't have any solid reasons but I would find Moonin and Xix and well...people with no posts that may apply to the discussion in either a positive or negative manner"
I know you thought you worded it wrong but what did you actually mean by this sentence?
Intersects with the Above
But to be more detailed, I mean't a case in where one person was getting voted on by many. Yet that one person ignores the votes on him, and attempts to drive attempt to another.
One: Super cool waffle there one-san! 57 And then we have some content that isn't just an unsure blab... which consists of putting Xix at L-1 when your case really isn't that solid... Tsk tsk. You are now a lot more scummy.
As with Above.
One: I think One needs to put a whole lot more content in his posts. He should also think his words out a bit more
otherwise they become confusing.
It hard to decipher hidden words in words as fast as you all, and I might not even be deciphering them at all.
I find you suspicious for putting Xix at L-1 simply because he couldn't think of a better way to respond to a case that I never even made.
I find you suspicious for once again posting One-Liners. As well as the fact that you assumed that I fully understand what I was doing.
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I never expressed suspicion of Moonin. You did.
So, you're going to continue voting Xix even though you're saying you don't want him dead? Huh?
Finally, why are Moonin's "one liners" suspicious? So far, they've felt like concise reasoning for votes. Maybe I'm missing something?
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Although I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to read over, and think about what's been posted so far, there are two posts that caught my eye particularly and reveals clear-cut intent.
Lords and Ladies of the hight court, please let me direct your attention to Sage Orwan's post #74 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675833.html#msg675833)
I have just had the pleasure of reading the Book's post. You are now one of my scared town reads. My hands are indeed spoiled, I shall release you from my grasp. ##Unvote
My opinion on Mala's divinations is that they were not something scummy at all, and I am surprised that that semi-joke reason has turned into a worry of Orwen's for such a WIFOMy objection that role's and characters need not match... Otherwise on this particular point I must defer to the knowledgeble Book. Why are you still voting Mala when you find One suspcious and possibly scummy... and please clarify what you were thinking when you said you didn't like her wagon when at the moment you are the only one voting her?.
Otherwise your post is an overblown case on lackluster posters which presents no new insights, while simply waffling on Xix.
I am quite sure that the intent of your post is to push a One lynch from the sidelines while padding your post with obversations on Mala (with no conclusions) with a pointless call to the lurkers to post.
I think you are Scum. ##Vote Sage Orwen
There is another reason I particularly didn't enjoy reading that Waffle on Xix. It is because you the waffle involved the considerations of other people voting Xix and not just on Xix himself. You called Xix a hypocrite, and that should be enough for you. Why mitagate that feeling by pointing out that lurkers voted for him, and that lurkers are bad. That should not mean that Xix looks more like a townie.
Because I think Xix is scum as well (my 2nd choice). His post #73 seemed like he was only giving half-assed observations AFTER he thought he should be giving them. (He should have stated those anyway when he voted Moon, because he obviously thought there was scum intent from Mala and Iffrita)
I'm quite fine with his lynch as well
Also I have no time right now, but I consider One derp and not a priority.
My only other town read besides Book is Iffrita.
Good day
That claim says nothing much... sorry.
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I never expressed suspicion of Moonin. You did.
So, you're going to continue voting Xix even though you're saying you don't want him dead? Huh?
Finally, why are Moonin's "one liners" suspicious? So far, they've felt like concise reasoning for votes. Maybe I'm missing something?
The one liners are suspicious because even if could convey slight information with it, it still doesn't explain much about his decisions of voting. So far every single one of his posts are either just votes or one liners, which does not give as much information as he should be giving.
I personally wouldn't care if anyone died!, so long as Depore is alive I shall give everything too her!(No not really)
The vote is better off staying on Xix due to the fact no one else has evidence of concrete scum, nor does Xix have concrete evidence of Town. As well as the fact that changing my vote many times in one day is really not a good thing for the players.
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Why me?
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Why not you? (?･ω･`) One and Moon-kun are fighting so why do you think they're both scummy for it?
Don't know what an UncertainKitten is suposed to mean to me Nav-tan~☆ I don't think it's a misrep when you brought up the possibility of Mala clarifying it again. What did you expect her to say? ┐( ?∀? )┌ But your vote looks good on One-scum. More votes on One please.
Just cause I'm a curious One what exactly do you want Moonin to eludicate on? Your words say you want to change your vote but your vote says Xix Xix Xix~☆ Your reasoning that no one has evidence of concrete scum leaves out a tiny detail. Neither do you! Unless you're his buddy. Thanks for Day 2~☆
Xix-kun stopped being manly and started flailing like a little girl. We can't be together like this.
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Xix's attack was shoddy overall and basically utilized reasoning that
Wow, I just realized that I never finished the sentence and somehow missed it while proofreading. Why does nobody ever point these things out to me?
But ~AS I WAS SAYING~, Xix's attack was shoddy overall and basically utilized reasoning that was attacking something closer to a null tell than a scum tell.
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I am not withholding or dressing up insight.
If you have a problem with conciseness, I could always pad out my post with faked rage, unbearably smug statements, and random buzzwords.
Every Vote after Iffrita's is bad. Depore, Mala, and One's votes were made in poor judgement.
Depore's voted on Xix's tone, which is not a factor in determining alignment. The added reason of being guilty of hypocrisy does not sound like an actual reason for voting, but rather a casting of suspicion used to bolster her case.
Mala does not provide reasoning for his vote. He merely states that Xix's actions feel scum motivated. I looked back, but did not see anything in his posting beforehand other than casual observations of what Depore put into her case. I gave a slight pass for unvoting when Xix was at L-1, but he states in the voting post that he does not like the wagon being half from random votes. If you had felt this way, you should not have been voting him in the first place.
One, at surface level, looked the worse. He believed both sides of the argument between me and Xix equally suspicious, but threw weight behind the one who had the largest wagon. However, I do believe he is telling the truth that he did not intend to put Xix at L-1. Town and Scum equally would not want the bandwagon to go through like that because he would be the most suspicious person. This is a waste of effort, regardless of what his alignment is. I am relegating One's actions to a null-tell.
This said, I apologize to One. Depore and Mala are much worse with regards to opportunism on the Xix wagon.
##Unvote: One
##Vote: Depore
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While I'm here, I want to point out that I'm disliking how Mala suddenly took a completely unexplained turn away from the Xix wagon after unvoting to attack the person her previous top scum suspect was voting. I desire an explanation for this behavior, since if Xix turns out to be town then that would look like a pretty convenient way for Mala to move herself off the inevitable townie lynch, and if Xix is scum like I am expecting, then... well. I don't think her switch towards Moonin meshes very well with her past opinions.
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Moonin's post made me realize the players I had as my two alternate suspects in my #87 were the first two people to vote Xix seriously... hm. I strongly believe that Xix's play has been blatantly terribad so far and am surprised people have been giving him passes, but the way the other players jumped onto his wagon is starting to make me doubt myself.
Blargh. I'll think this over more tomorrow.
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Moonin's post made me realize the players I had as my two alternate suspects in my #87 were the first two people to vote Xix seriously... hm. I strongly believe that Xix's play has been blatantly terribad so far and am surprised people have been giving him passes, but the way the other players jumped onto his wagon is starting to make me doubt myself.
Blargh. I'll think this over more tomorrow.
Bad play is not indicative of alignment, only skill.
The pass I give to Xix is due solely to the bad intentions I feel from the serious votes placed on his wagon.
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Did you actually read my second case about Xix? There were more arguments in there.
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I switched to Moonin because I decided that I dislike him (Moonin is male right? The picture is somewhat ambiguous.) the most right now.
His first post was a random vote onto the second largest wagon at the time. His second post is a comment for Xix to be nicer when content to discuss was beginning to appear. His third (and fourth but I'm counting them as the same thing) post involves him jumping onto the One wagon due to One's placing of Xix to L-1. I don't like any of this.
Now to deal with my part in the whole Xix voting mess: When I placed my vote on him we still had roughly two days left during which we can vote and argue and be of good cheer. I had considered FoS'ing him then but believed that voting regularly would have been fine since my vote placed him at L-2 and I thought that the random voters would either move their vote or come in to provide actual reasoning for their votes.
@Moonin saying I didn't provide reasoning for my vote onto Xix: You say yourself that I gave my observations and thought that they were probably scum motivated. What more do you want? In addition may I ask how I used Depore's case when I posted before her? Unless I've misinterpreted "other than casual observations of what Depore put into her case."
As for my switch from Xix to Moonin? All I can say that it's D1 and there isn't all that much content to go by and so my reads are subject to change. Right now I dislike Xix, Moonin, and Just.
And now that we've touched on the subject of Just, I want to ask him something. What do you think of Demon Navarus right now? And what do you mean by "Xix-kun stopped being manly and started flailing like a little girl. We can't be together like this."? Finally, does your case on One involve anything outside of his neutral stance?
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The number of people who have called me "town" based on my opening post is a little irritating. >_> Also, the next person who spells "hypocrisy" as "hypocracy" gets a dictionary in the face. It happened last game too.
This post is mostly clarification questions since I'm tired oh god look at the time.
Alright, I read Mala, and I'm pretty unimpressed. Call it keeping your cards close, but I'm not seeing anything that stands out (which is a bad thing). Moonin and Iffrita have already covered her actions around the Xix vote, and there's not much else to see in her ISO. There's the later switch to Moonin, which is a bit abrupt, but understandable - I didn't like Moonin's #90 either, but he has rectified that. I'd like for Mala to elaborate on the rest of her ~opinions~.
And then Mala cuts me and looks a lot better to me now wow that was a complete waste of time. I'll read her again in the morning.
Just, care to share anything with us on the rest of the players? You seem rather tight-lipped on anyone save One.
Moonin, regardless of the votes on him, what do you think of Xix? Also, why Depore over Mala?
Navarus, what did you like about Orwen's post?
Depore, are you going to get your opinions post out or what? I've been waiting~ #86 doesn't count because you're just describing what people are doing without giving your opinion on them. Let's take the Xix point, for instance. You say Xix shows bad reasoning, low content (but wait the second post had content!), and aggressiveness (ok if in character). Do you think these make Xix scummy, and why?
One, there's no such thing as concrete evidence in Mafia, unless you count scum knowing who the other scum are. Vote changing in itself is not scummy if the vote changes are valid. If you are town, you should elaborate on why your vote is best placed on Xix, i.e. why is he the scummiest player? If you don't think Xix is the scummiest, then change your vote. Continuing to not provide opinions and make proper use of your vote looks bad, and scummy at worst.
Xix should come in and make an updated opinions post, except make it readable this time and skip the IIOA.
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Ah, I see Orwen is holding on to his vote on Mala, but his reasoning is incredibly weak. First half of the first paragraph is irrelevant. As I read it, his case boils down to, ~role speculation~ and this gem:Please point out this defence.
All in all, it's a rather weak case, and I found the rest of post #74 to be rather fluffy. There are points to be made on Mala (which I will touch on in my next post), but Orwen declines to mention any of these points.
But aren't you the only person on the Mala wagon?
In any case,
##Unvote
##Vote:Orwen
More in a few hours.
I apologize for the typos. The sentence should read "I'm also really not liking the wagon on Xix, nor I'm I fond of Mala's vote." instead of
"I'm also really not liking the wagon on Xix, nor I'm I fond of Mala's."
The first post Navarus made in this game defends Depore with:
Derpore is town.
This is a view that Navarus has maintained throughout the game (although it did not come up much early game), so I found it suspicious that Mala voted Navarus for defending Mala while not bringing up Navarus's unsubstantiated town read on Depore.
Sage mah dear, Can you clarify this stuff for me please~? Do you not think Xix is scum? Or do you just think the wagon formed on him is a bad one with bad reasoning and if he is still scummy to you, why is he scum? It may just be that you posted without looking at Xix's resonse but these opinions seem outdated now can you update them?
Xix is suspicious to me, but the wagon that formed on him was terrible. The first half of it was joke votes, and the second half was 1-liner excuses for vote parking. He's voting his only apparent scum read, Moonin, for lack of content. By itself that isn't bad, but Xix hasn't told us which other players he's suspicious of, and what about their content he finds suspicious. Xix needs to tell us who he's suspicious of in addition to Moonin and why.
As for my switch from Xix to Moonin? All I can say that it's D1 and there isn't all that much content to go by and so my reads are subject to change. Right now I dislike Xix, Moonin, and Just.
Mala, while I understand your reason for voting for Moonin, I don't I understand your reason for unvoting Xix. What do you think of Xix's 73? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) The way you've told us that you dislike all three of Xix, Just, and Moonin while moving your vote around freely gives you a lot of flexibility while not forcing you to commit to your reads, which I also find suspicious.
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Hmm, alright, I suppose that makes some sense. I'll sleep on it and put out a more substantial response when I wake up.
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##Unvote
I'm gonna take a moment to re-read everything.
Also to avoid dictionary bashing, "hypocrisy"
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Regarding Demon Navarus' defence of Depore: I tend to disregard anything said in the RVS and Demon Navarus calling Depore town was something that I wasn't paying attention to. But since you've brought it to my attention I'm now curious.
@Demon Navarus: You've mentioned Depore twice. Both times you have called him town. The second time you specifically singled out Depore as town that needed to post more. Why Depore? Why not any of the other lurkers? Why do both you and One love Depore instead of me?!
As for unvoting Xix: I did it because he had been placed at L-1. As for Xix's #79, I don't like it all that much. The entire post consists of Xix defending himself and commenting on a few people with no real content.
@Xix 79: "Mala's 29 does indeed feel like a strange unnecessary push for a wagon. And some role-playing" And? What do you think that says about me?
"Depore: Yeah, this is the person you should be voting for Noah Iffrita, with the reasoning you're using on me. Me, jumping on to an easy wagon? A person who had NO VOTES?!?! Seriously, jumping on to the only wagon without explaining a reason?" And? What do you think of Depore for doing this?
"One: I was giving you a pass for being a newbie, but what is this? You want me to defend against RANDOM VOTES?!" And? Are you still giving One a pass for being a newb?
"Oh look, reasonable posts. Wait, you want me to claim because I'm at L-1 when 1/3rd of those are random votes? Good job, trying to get me to reveal my role. There should be no reason why I'm even at L-1 in the first place." And? Are you trying to call Demon Navarus out for rolefishing here or are you just calling bs on the wagon that formed on you?
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Why do both you and One love Depore instead of me?!
Because I'm special.
These are my current opinions as the other ones were just quick opinions:
Xix: Could do with some more posts. Low content in some posts. Not-so-good reasoning. Attempt to deflect attacks. Bit aggressive. Slightly Scummy.
The unneccesary attack to what I now think was a jokevote seemed very scummy. Then he actually tried to deflect the attacks onto me when he could've made a proper defense case for himself. After recent posts he seems to have calmed down a bit and seems less scummy to me. But I still think he is a bit scummy.
One:Low content in some posts. Can be confusing. Not the best reasoning. Kinda scummy or as Mala said "derptown".
I think One needs to re-think what he posts as he seems to get a bit confused sometimes. Although that statement that he made about keeping me alive to give me things makes me think he's trying to make you guys think I'm his scumbuddy (He did say "no not really" but I'm still suspicious).
Moonin: Still could do with some more posts. Getting better with reasoning and content. Leaning towards town now. First post stirred up alot of trouble because it had no reasons at all, but that was possibly a jokevote. The actual content he has posted now seems very town to me.
Book of the Past: Good scumhunting. Good reasoning. Good content(better than most with only 2 posts). Town.
Because the attention to detail is used very well in their scum hunting. And he is covering many people instead of one. Possibly trying to find all the scum on day one and lynch them all one-by-one. I would also like the Book of the Past to post their opinions. Short Sweet and Simple.
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Unvote; Vote: Empress Iffritya
Why was Moonllin an easier target than... say.. Xix?
How was Xix's vote any more opportunistic than yours?
Furthermore, how do you explain the blatant rolefishing in your opening post?
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Oh, ALSO. If Iffrita flips scum, Moon is likely the partner. The proxy defense of Moon by attacking his voter is noted.
To be honest, I don't see the case on Xix and the fact that the wagon soared to L-1(L-2 really, but the FoS was like a Pseudo L-1) makes me more than a little unnerved about that lynch today.
Other good lynches today include One and Sage Orwen.
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@Mod: Can we have a votecount and deadline update? If I have to deal with Plurality lynches, I want to at least know how much time I have to work with. Thanks~!
I don't want any accidental lynches on town.
Speaking of town:
Book of the Past is looking VERY town. As is Demon.
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Your right, I totally contradicted myself. Goes to show what I would know.
I find Moonin suspicious for the short and vague response on Xix voting on him, he did not attempt to defend and just shrugs it off like it mean't nothing.
I find Xix suspicious due to the fact even though he had 3 votes on him at the time, he does not have a case in which he defends himself, but instead focuses on Moonin.
Therefore I have decided :
##Vote Xix
Actually, I could REALLY get behind a One lynch today.
Look at this post where he votes Xix.
His reasoning is that Xix is scum because instead of defending himself (something scum would be interested in doing) he continues to HUNT SCUM (something town should be doing.)
Now, this is a case of "Not sure if scum or just wrong", but it doesn't LOOK like someone can make this kind of mistake accidentally...
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Why me?
-twitch-
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Oh, and Prophet Mala's defense of One is noted. The vote for Moonin is interesting.
This is clearly not a 100% thing, but looking at interactions...
Moonin/Iffrita and One/Mala are potential scum pairings. Obviously there's gonna be more than 2 scum. There's probably a third player who is just lurking and distancing.
Maybe Depore? Maybe Sage Orwen?
I'm down for ANY of the following lynches today:
Iffrita
Sage
One
Mala
Depore(this is here because of a bad gut feeling I have, plus I'm conditioned to have the "Why my Fry me" in my system at all times SOOOO yeah. Let me read closer into Depore before I make this official)
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Another thing I find weird: Demon Navarus seems somewhat overdedicated in defending me. Why is that?
##Unvote
##Vote Demon Navarus
There's something not quite right about this post. Normally, questioning the people who read you as town is a pretty town thing to do...
But this felt really forced, and considering that she dropped it after not much longer, I feel like this is a type of maneuver that scum would pull to try and appear more town.
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Don't know what an UncertainKitten is supposed to mean to me Nav-tan~☆ I don't think it's a misrep when you brought up the possibility of Mala clarifying it again. What did you expect her to say? ┐( ?∀? )┌ But your vote looks good on One-scum. More votes on One please.
Just cause I'm a curious One what exactly do you want Moonin to eludicate on? Your words say you want to change your vote but your vote says Xix Xix Xix~☆ Your reasoning that no one has evidence of concrete scum leaves out a tiny detail. Neither do you! Unless you're his buddy. Thanks for Day 2~☆
Can't argue with that, but it does not mean you need concrete evidence to vote either,
Sorry just reread it, totally phrased it wrong...
I meant everyone had an equal chance to be scum. So I believed that changing or dropping my vote at the time may be worse then just keeping it on Xix.
One, there's no such thing as concrete evidence in Mafia, unless you count scum knowing who the other scum are. Vote changing in itself is not scummy if the vote changes are valid. If you are town, you should elaborate on why your vote is best placed on Xix, i.e. why is he the scummiest player? If you don't think Xix is the scummiest, then change your vote. Continuing to not provide opinions and make proper use of your vote looks bad, and scummy at worst.
I'm personally more of a "I think after post" which is bad. But when I try to think during posts, I kinda go blank.
...now I just feel like I'm making excuses...
If having a vote without good enough reasoning bother you so much,
##Unvote
His reasoning is that Xix is scum because instead of defending himself (something scum would be interested in doing) he continues to HUNT SCUM (something town should be doing.)
Now, this is a case of "Not sure if scum or just wrong", but it doesn't LOOK like someone can make this kind of mistake accidentally...
I'll keep that in mind.
Hm...I feel like I've only been defending all game...
Also, "Mob Mentality". Keep it in mind.
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Votecount the Seventh - Buy One get One free :V
One (2): Yuan, Just, Navarus, Moonin
Mala (1): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Xix (1): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One
Orwen (2): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Moonin (2): Xix, Mala
Iffrita (2): Miya, Yuan
Depore (1): Moonin
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Yuan (0): Orwen
Just (0): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Depore, One
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 34 hours and 10 minutes until Night 1.
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Unvote; Vote: One
His last post is a ball of appeasement and not really explaining why he did anything. Just... "Oh Yeah, Right."
I don't like it.
Furthermore, this "Everyone had an equal chance to be scum, so moving my vote would be BAD!" is just crap anyway.
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Unvote; Vote: One
His last post is a ball of appeasement and not really explaining why he did anything. Just... "Oh Yeah, Right."
I don't like it.
Furthermore, this "Everyone had an equal chance to be scum, so moving my vote would be BAD!" is just crap anyway.
Eh? really I thought it sounded nice.
But wouldn't leaving a empty vote around without using it be worse? after all if you keep unvoting and voting, it could be considered opportunistic
O and well...balls of appeasments...hm...
Oh and if not moving vote is so Bad then moving it over 5 times in a single day is great?
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Eh? really I thought it sounded nice.
But wouldn't leaving a empty vote around without using it be worse? after all if you keep unvoting and voting, it could be considered opportunistic
O and well...balls of appeasments...hm...
Oh and if not moving vote is so Bad then moving it over 5 times in a single day is great?
Only scum cares about appearances. Town hunts and votes for scum.
Further, I believe I have voted 3 times today not "over 5". (First as an RVS for you, then switching to Iffrita, then back to you because you were being terribad)
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Oh right, EBWOP:
That last question is really loaded. I don't like how you're asking it. It has to do with the fact that you're taking a black/white stance on voting patterns, when in reality there is no... 100% "this is town, this is scum" way to vote. It's all about the intent behind the votes that are placed, and why they are there.
Just like intent behind questions being asked, and the answers given to them.
The fact that you're trying to box me into absolutes is unnerving for me.
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Only scum cares about appearances. Town hunts and votes for scum.
Further, I believe I have voted 3 times today not "over 5". (First as an RVS for you, then switching to Iffrita, then back to you because you were being terribad)
If appearances are for scum, then what about lurkers? towniest towns who just watch?
Oh right, EBWOP:
That last question is really loaded. I don't like how you're asking it. It has to do with the fact that you're taking a black/white stance on voting patterns, when in reality there is no... 100% "this is town, this is scum" way to vote. It's all about the intent behind the votes that are placed, and why they are there.
Just like intent behind questions being asked, and the answers given to them.
The fact that you're trying to box me into absolutes is unnerving for me.
So thats the problem huh, black and white, Eiki is nice and all, but even I don't like pure white or black, I personally like gray more.
But personally I'm more of a insecure person, so I think my confidence in new stuff is quite horribad.
Oh and Where the hell is Princess Miya she only has 1 confirmation post, 1 RVS post, 1 post of seriousness. I would like for her to get those post counts in.
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Unvote; Vote: One
His last post is a ball of appeasement and not really explaining why he did anything. Just... "Oh Yeah, Right."
I don't like it.
Furthermore, this "Everyone had an equal chance to be scum, so moving my vote would be BAD!" is just crap anyway.
What you mean by "I don't like it.? elaborate more please.
Also please explain why not moving my vote is such a bad idea?
You only said you didnt vote 5 times, but you did not answer my question.
And if your vote is because "I don't like it", why choose me over the others that you didnt like?
Tell me why you swapped so quickly from Empress Iffrita to me from just a *ball of appeasement.* with the reason that "I don't like it".
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I'm still curious as to why you mentioned me in that post earlier.
So you might want to get around to answering that One.
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I'm still curious as to why you mentioned me in that post earlier.
So you might want to get around to answering that One.
Ah, well...I was attempted at role playing, but it seem it completely backfired.
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Ah, I see.
It's really confusing when you don't know the theme.
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What you mean by "I don't like it.? elaborate more please.
Also please explain why not moving my vote is such a bad idea?
You only said you didnt vote 5 times, but you did not answer my question.
And if your vote is because "I don't like it", why choose me over the others that you didnt like?
Tell me why you swapped so quickly from Empress Iffrita to me from just a *ball of appeasement.* with the reason that "I don't like it".
In order:
1) I explained why I didn't like it in the sentence before. Appeasement on your part makes it scummy.
2) It's not that you didn't move your vote. It's the reason you gave for not moving it.
3)I have explained why I don't like you. And I believe you to be more scummy than the other people I have outlined. Your vote for Xix + your recent posts are the biggest reasons.
4) I still want Empress to answer my questions, and I am no less suspicious of her at this point in time. HOWEVER, you were more suspicious. And I vote the person I feel is most likely to be scum.
Further, that last question is called "deflection" where you try to direct me back onto another target. It's another form of "Why Me?" or "Why not them?" and it's a major scum tell. Thank you for solidifying my read even further.
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Obviously there's gonna be more than 2 scum.
How exactly would you know that? Could it be that you're part of the scum team and know who everybody is? This seems pretty scummy to me.
##Vote:Yuan
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How exactly would you know that? Could it be that you're part of the scum team and know who everybody is? This seems pretty scummy to me.
##Vote:Yuan
Oh cool, you ARE scum!
There are 13 people in this game. You HONESTLY THINK there's only going to be 2 scum?
Further, you seem to be attacking me for a minor point like this... rather than focusing on the majority of my content?
I mean, not only is the point I made there COMMON SENSE, but your attacking it like it is some kind of scum slip reads as if you are scum desperately trying to find something to attack me with.
Also, this could easily be read as a defense for your scum buddy One.
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Oh...where to start...
One's...I'm not sure what to even say. First, why is changing your vote not a good thing? If your mind has changed, shouldn't your vote change as well? Secondly, why are you so indifferent to someone dying? Don't you want to lynch scum? That apathy just feels so AWFUL. If I misunderstood this, please elucidate. Finally, there is a use for extremely concise reasoning and voting, and now is a good time to use it. I do hope Moonin eventually posts more, but as it stands, I'm happy with him.
Did Depore really just say "Why me?"...who was that even too?
Just: Fair enough about the first, it was just regarding my experience. However, bringing up the possibility was only in the sense that I wanted Mala to clarify if she felt clarification was needed, which I figured she wouldn't. I do not feel I did the same thing as Iffrita, which you appear to be accusing me of. There's a notable lack of pressure voting Mala from me, first of all, and second of all I'm not *demanding* a clarification of the original post. Therefore, yes, you misrepped me.
Hell, while I'm here, just gonna put out there that Just is scum. Been getting a bad feeling from him since his first rather light responses and he hasn't done anything to improve them. After this post I'll see about making a better case than "bad feeling".
@Book: I liked Orwen's post when I read the part where he found putting Xix at L-1 so suspicious. I liked the pressure placed on those on the Xix wagon, given how quickly it spawned. I thought he had an interesting point on Mala, albeit one I didn't agree with.
@Orwen: Now now, quit assuming everything I do is completely unsubstantiated. I just feel no need to explain town reads since at best it gives scum a list of ~*~behavior to emulate~*~ and at worst creates a situation where I have to use a ~*~rigid set of tells~*~ to determine anyone town when it really doesn't work like that.
@Mala: See answer to Orwen. I have reasons to believe Depore is town from his first post.
@Depore: Could you fence sit and report any more? I don't want to know WHAT they did, I want to know why it's scummy. The explanation of actions does not explain the results. Connect the dots for me, please?
@Yuan: Good to see you. Wondering why Orwen is a good lynch. Following you on One though.
...hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I knew that was coming from SOMEONE (the *twitch* at why me)
@One: No, everyone DOESN'T have an equal chance of being scum. There are behavioral tells all over the place. To rely on probability is sheer LAZINESS. Do some analysis. Tell us why someone is more likely scum than someone else. Quit hiding behind math because mafia is not a game of math! ...and now you're UNVOTING XIX?
Look, reread the game, and tell us three people you think are most likely to be scum, and WHY. Vote one of them. Now.
@One: Lurkers don't exist D1. The fact you're thinking of pressuring lurkers D1 is very much doin it rong.
@Depore: 13 player game. 2 scum would allow town 5 mislynches and only require 2 lynches to win. That would be unbalanced. I get the impression you're new at this, which is fine. Just do what I asked earlier and you'll be fine.
AND I'M CAUGHT UP! Creating a case on Just now!
@La- Yuan: No, he's just a new player. Why does being a new player make him scum, Yuan?
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Hello Demon Kitten!
I don't think town has the LUXURY to assume new player =/= scum.
I mean, the last anonymafia should provide tantamount evidence to why this is important~.
Further, I have outlined why I think he is scum. Even if he is new to this game, the scum intent is still there. I mean... look at the vote on Xix?
I'll show you the post that has me worried about Sage.
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I apologize for the typos. The sentence should read "I'm also really not liking the wagon on Xix, nor I'm I fond of Mala's vote." instead of
"I'm also really not liking the wagon on Xix, nor I'm I fond of Mala's."
The first post Navarus made in this game defends Depore with:
This is a view that Navarus has maintained throughout the game (although it did not come up much early game), so I found it suspicious that Mala voted Navarus for defending Mala while not bringing up Navarus's unsubstantiated town read on Depore.
Xix is suspicious to me, but the wagon that formed on him was terrible. The first half of it was joke votes, and the second half was 1-liner excuses for vote parking. He's voting his only apparent scum read, Moonin, for lack of content. By itself that isn't bad, but Xix hasn't told us which other players he's suspicious of, and what about their content he finds suspicious. Xix needs to tell us who he's suspicious of in addition to Moonin and why.
Mala, while I understand your reason for voting for Moonin, I don't I understand your reason for unvoting Xix. What do you think of Xix's 73? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) The way you've told us that you dislike all three of Xix, Just, and Moonin while moving your vote around freely gives you a lot of flexibility while not forcing you to commit to your reads, which I also find suspicious.
This post Demon. There's no real... logical reasoning behind why I don't like it. I just get a bad vibe from it. It's more of an IGMEOY than an FoS really. I should have made that clearer.
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I think everyone misunderstood my "Why me?" comment.
It was directed at One for randomly pairing up him and myself for no apparent reason.
I had no idea he was trying to roleplay.
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Well, the first three posts have me noticing the distinct difference between concise reasoning and no reasoning. Just is fulfilling the latter. His fourth post I've already addressed as being misrepalicious. And his final post is more pressure on One. The case on Just revolves around what's LACKING from his ISO.
The first would be analysis of any player not named One.
The second would be any feelings on the current events on the game at the times of his posts.
It reads like he's pursuing an agenda that's unrelated to the going ons of the actual game.
So, I'm actually finding this a lot worse than One. I'm getting part Derp part Scum vibes from One. I'm getting extremely bad feelings from Just and none of them are explained by Derp.
##Unvote
##Vote Just
##FoS: One
This doesn't take you off the hook, One. I want you to answer everything I asked you in my big post.
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I think everyone misunderstood my "Why me?" comment.
It was directed at One for randomly pairing up him and myself for no apparent reason.
I had no idea he was trying to roleplay.
Even still, that's a scummy reaction.
"Why are you pairing yourself with ME? Why not XYZ other player?"
I don't want to get into mafia theory, because not everyone agrees with me on this particular tell, but if you push me to go into it, I will.
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Also I am still a bit new to this game. I'm sorry for that, I probably should've worked that out by now.
##Unvote
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@Depore: Thanks for elucidating that.
@Yuan: Show me Depore's scum intent. I'm not seeing it. When you were a new player in MHM, you still showed you understood mafia. Depore hasn't even shown that. But either way, Depore isn't town because he's new, the case on him just falls apart when you realize he's a new player. I'm kind of unnerved by the fact you found his comment about the number of scum scummy. Do you really need to throw everything and the kitchen sink at someone? I guess I'd appreciate a concise showing of Depore's scum intent. Don't try to throw every scrap you can find on him at it. Just post your strongest points, and the posts that support said points.
As for Orwen, his post prior to that had some logical reasoning, I think. Further, I follow his post fairly well, and it feels like a good follow up to his prior post. Fair enough that you have your eye on him.
@Cut by Yuan: Suffice it to say I disagree about the scum intent of Why Me in this case. Do you have any other points on Depore besides that?
@Everyone unvoting: For the love of Christ WHY?
@Depore: Are you going to answer my request in my big post?
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...actually, no, it's not fair enough. I forgot you said that "he'd be a good lynch". Why is it just IGMEOY now?
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Yeah I'm getting on the case just need to make it good enough.
Also kitchen sinks do hurt you know.
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Sadly, I must go away for an hour or two. Don't let Yuan scare you too much while I'm gone~
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...actually, no, it's not fair enough. I forgot you said that "he'd be a good lynch". Why is it just IGMEOY now?
I have a bad feeling about him. He WOULDN'T be a bad lynch. There are better lynches though. It's day 1. I'm willing to accept anyone I have qualms about as a "good lynch". Just as long as it isn't someone I have a town read on. For example: Anyone wanting to lynch Book of the Past gets slapped.
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"Sadly, I must go away for an hour or two. Don't let Yuan scare you too much while I'm gone~"
I'll try...
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Sadly, I must go away for an hour or two. Don't let Yuan scare you too much while I'm gone~
Yes, I'm the scary one~.
I'll outline what I can of the Depore problems while you're gone. A LOT of it has to do with the Why Me thing, but there's also potential for a defense of One?
I know you don't hold the same beliefs I do about the Why Me tell; so I'll do what I can for you ^-^
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I'll think of a case tomorrow as I should go to bed now.
Ugh, my brain is starting to hurt.
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Dead posts are dead.
In order:
1) I explained why I didn't like it in the sentence before. Appeasement on your part makes it scummy.
2) It's not that you didn't move your vote. It's the reason you gave for not moving it.
3)I have explained why I don't like you. And I believe you to be more scummy than the other people I have outlined. Your vote for Xix + your recent posts are the biggest reasons.
4) I still want Empress to answer my questions, and I am no less suspicious of her at this point in time. HOWEVER, you were more suspicious. And I vote the person I feel is most likely to be scum.
Further, that last question is called "deflection" where you try to direct me back onto another target. It's another form of "Why Me?" or "Why not them?" and it's a major scum tell. Thank you for solidifying my read even further.
I have already explained my reason for Xix at the time, as well as the fact that even most of them were joked I had "Mob Mentality" in effect as well.
as for Demon Navarus's post...eh...
I hate math...thats all I can really say for the probability part, and for the scum part...well its harder than I thought. I'm actually more biased then I orginally thought I was.
Also : analysis depends in the person is majorly biases or not, if they are it could be completely wrong and throw the game off by false information.
Scum wise:
I'm reading One as derptown. Call me naive if you want but I'm sticking with this read for now.
I personally wonder why you are defending me so much, not that I didn't like the help. It makes me wonder why you would defend me when I likely have nothing for you to benefit with, after all I don't have much contents or scum opinions for anyone. It makes me wonder if you actually trying to keep me alive so you can get an easy wagon on me later?
@Yuan: Even with all your posts, you still don't really explain how appeasement means scummy, If I'm really such a high scum target, are you sure its alright to not explain every detail?
@Just : While its nice and all your giving me so much attention, I really wonder why your so focused on me. There are other wagons with about the same votes on me. Yet latest posts have all been attacking me. All your attacks on me makes me wonder whats going on in your head to really ignore most of the others around us...please don't tell me that its because you love me either.
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So you want me to explain MAFIA THEORY to you now? Good Lord.
Appeasement is scummy because it's a way for scum to try and deflect and avoid suspicion. Scum has clear motivation to do it.
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Votecount the Eighth
One (2): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan
Mala (1): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Xix (1): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One
Orwen (2): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Moonin (2): Xix, Mala
Iffrita (1): Miya, Yuan
Depore (1): Moonin
Just (1): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus
Yuan (0): Orwen, Depore
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Depore, One
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 31 hours and 45 minutes until Night 1.
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@Demon: The only thing outside of the "Why Me" is the vote that he placed on me.
He tried to attack me for an apparent scum slip, ignoring all my other posts. Do I need to explain why that is scummy?
Further, the attack on me could have a secondary purpose of defecting attention off of One.
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I hate math...thats all I can really say for the probability part, and for the scum part...well its harder than I thought. I'm actually more biased then I orginally thought I was.
Also : analysis depends in the person is majorly biases or not, if they are it could be completely wrong and throw the game off by false information.
OK, seriously, what the hell does this even mean? It's word salad that has syntax errors out the ass and makes absolutely no damn sense. Please rephrase this in English, not...whatever that is.
Secondly, if you answered Yuan's questions already, can you link back to where you did so?
Thirdly, It Makes Me Wonder statements are not analysis. It's too soft. Say what you mean. Tell us why it's scummy. You did ok on Mala, ending with the theory she's keeping you alive to wagon you later. That's not GOOD logic, but it's still something concrete that says "This is why I think X is scum"
However, it's unclear whether you think Yuan and Just are scum. You talk about what they've done, but why do you think they've done it. Is Yuan scummy? Why? Is Just scummy? Why?
@Yuan: Just gonna say I disagree with your case. Depore can defend against it herself. Speaking of Depore...
@Depore: We're down to about 30ish hours in the day. You don't have the luxury of posting cases tomorrow. Do it now, please.
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Demon, what's your opinion of Empress?
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So far? Early town read, haven't paid her as much mind. I think I do need to reread her at this point, since I might have missed something. The rolefishing thing didn't actually condemn her in my mind, I just wanted to see what her reasoning was. I sort of followed it but disagreed.
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I did that Depore re-read. I originally thought her vote on Xix was stronger than Xix's vote on Moonin but after looking into her post again it's fairly obvious this was not the case. Blaming it on tunnel vision (because tunnel vision is a good scapegoat for one's own idiocy). Anyway.
##Unvote
##Vote Depore
Depore's initial vote on Xix actually looks a lot like something I would expect from newbscum: she aggressively voted somebody who looked like a potential major wagon, but her vote contains significant padding (the accusations of aggression and hypocrisy) and fails to actually explain how her target's behavior is scummy. Newbscum can't easily analyze for scum intent because they have no experience scumhunting and already know who is scum anyway, and Depore's jump on Xix seems to have this exact problem.
Moving on from Depore's initial post, I'm finding myself strongly disliking her #88 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675911.html#msg675911), if only because of how much leeway it gave her. At the time, Xix, One and Moonin were all notable targets, and this post just gave Depore the chance to attack either one of them should the Xix wagon die out. Given that One and Moonin were fairly easy to attack, it doesn't particularly look like original scumhunting, either. Considering that Depore dropped her suspicion on Moonin (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676034.html#msg676034) after he posted some content and stopped looking like an easy target, I'm fairly confident her intent from the beginning was to jump on the players who would likely not take much effort to lynch.
I'll concede that I was probably wrong on Xix, if only because a second look at Depore's vote makes me feel like the Xix wagon was a construct being used by scum for an earlygame push. If I turn out to be wrong on Depore I'll probably reconsider. Xix still needs to post some better content, though. I will rage if we end up letting him coast by on all the passes we're giving him.
Other stuff:
Regarding One... eh. I've been reading a lot of his posts, and I can't seem to judge them as anything other than derptown earnesty. I don't believe appeasement is a scumtell when used by newbies, either. It's closer to null. It really feels like One is being lynched for being a weaker player rather than lynching scum. See Depore for an example of what I believe newbscum would actually be doing.
@Navarus: I like the Just case. The thought that he was acting rather ignorant/survivalist crossed my mind last night and I actually still feel this way, so I'd be willing to switch to him. Actually, I think he's a better D1 lynch than most targets today (One, Moonin, Orwen), but I don't consider him to be worse than Depore.
@Yuan: As far as I know, I already explained everything you're asking, or at least made posts where I did so in the process of talking about other things. I'll give links if necessary. While I'm at it, though, I'll say that I thought Moonin looked fairly townie at the time Xix attacked him. Pushing somebody to 3 votes during the RVS with no written is the kind of thing a townie would want to do to draw unnecessary attention and get discussion going, not scum. I felt Xix's vote on Moonin had scum motivation when I initially attacked him.
As for the other content, why the hell are you throwing scum pairings around on day 1? That's ridiculous and a very easy way for scum to set up unnecessary connections between players that further their own agendas. It'd be nice if we didn't get ahead of ourselves. I am glad you're at least considering Depore, however. Is there any specific reason you prefer to lynch One over her at this point, though?
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I see absolutely no issues with Iffrita, Yuan. Why do you suspect her?
Cut by Iffrita: Hrm...I'm kind of in a tough spot here. I think Depore is town (though she needs to fulfill my request ASAP). However, I honestly follow the logic in voting her. To counter this wagon would basically be saying "Screw you all, my gut is so much better than your logic". That doesn't seem like it'd go well. I have read the case on her and see where you're coming from, I just see a lot of potential newbtown. I think I'll gain the best discernment from a real list of suspicions from her.
I would prefer a Just lynch at this point, I feel. Even over One, especially over Depore.
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Well, I did a quick re-read of Just and I'm finding myself even less pleased with his content than I remembered. I can't tell who he thinks is scum other than One, and this is Not A Good Thing to me considering that I have been considering One to be an obvious derptown target throughout the day. Everything else he has posted looks like a bunch of side comments wrapped in RP smugness, which does not reflect on him very well at all. I know it's D1, but I would expect something more substantial by now. I can't see any townie intent in his posts and it just looks like he's trying to coast.
I like my Depore case too much to switch so soon, but I think Just is my second choice for a lynch now. Mala is a distant third.
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OK, seriously, what the hell does this even mean? It's word salad that has syntax errors out the ass and makes absolutely no damn sense. Please rephrase this in English, not...whatever that is.
Secondly, if you answered Yuan's questions already, can you link back to where you did so?
Thirdly, It Makes Me Wonder statements are not analysis. It's too soft. Say what you mean. Tell us why it's scummy. You did ok on Mala, ending with the theory she's keeping you alive to wagon you later. That's not GOOD logic, but it's still something concrete that says "This is why I think X is scum"
However, it's unclear whether you think Yuan and Just are scum. You talk about what they've done, but why do you think they've done it. Is Yuan scummy? Why? Is Just scummy? Why?
You can likely ignore that part due to brain scrambling...I think I was starting to bullshit like every time I write a History essay.
One again I wish to note watch for a Princess Miya post,
For the Just reasoning. He has attacked me multiple times by purely reversing my words, he practicalled looked at me like easy prey, which is likely. He pretty much ignored the discussion and practically focused in on me, there were a few wagons around, yet he continues to only assault mine. I consider that ...well...never really used this word much but..."scummy."!
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Err replace Just with Yuan
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EBWOP : ##Vote Yuan
To solidify my point.
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EBWODP ##Vote Yuan
Sigh...mistakes mistakes mistakes...
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Where did everybody go? I seem to recall it getting a lot more active around this time yesterday. I want opinions on Depore and Just.
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It sure would be nice if Xix, Moonin and Just were around and posting.
lolD1scumpairs.
Just I see as strange. Probably scummy. It really would be nice if he were around since I had a few questions for him in #109. I hoped that I could have gotten a quick answer but it would seem as though Just doesn't want to play with us and now my points were used by Demon Navarus in #137 and #141.
As for One I still think that he's derptown and I don't see anything special about Sage Orwen.
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A quick CTRL+F through your posting history shows that you have never given any sort of opinion about Depore. Give one.
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Depore? I would prefer other lynches at this point.
I do however also find her #115 disconcerting. After stating that she finds Moonin to be scummy for unknown reasons she calls his "content" post as really townie. The "content" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) that I'd still like some questions answered (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676029.html#msg676029) (It should actually read @Xix #73.) about. It seems like Depore simply got scared off by the size of the post instead of really looking at the content. (of which half comes from a liberal use of the enter key and large size font while announcing how many times he had been cut.)
Actually Depore is just as bad as Xix, Moonin and Just.
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Where did everybody go? I seem to recall it getting a lot more active around this time yesterday. I want opinions on Depore and Just.
In my Depore reread, I notice that her scum reads seem mostly based on content first, followed by quality of reasoning. For example:
Because I'm special.
These are my current opinions as the other ones were just quick opinions:
Xix: Could do with some more posts. Low content in some posts. Not-so-good reasoning. Attempt to deflect attacks. Bit aggressive. Slightly Scummy.
The unneccesary attack to what I now think was a jokevote seemed very scummy. Then he actually tried to deflect the attacks onto me when he could've made a proper defense case for himself. After recent posts he seems to have calmed down a bit and seems less scummy to me. But I still think he is a bit scummy.
One:Low content in some posts. Can be confusing. Not the best reasoning. Kinda scummy or as Mala said "derptown".
I think One needs to re-think what he posts as he seems to get a bit confused sometimes. Although that statement that he made about keeping me alive to give me things makes me think he's trying to make you guys think I'm his scumbuddy (He did say "no not really" but I'm still suspicious).
Moonin: Still could do with some more posts. Getting better with reasoning and content. Leaning towards town now. First post stirred up alot of trouble because it had no reasons at all, but that was possibly a jokevote. The actual content he has posted now seems very town to me.
Book of the Past: Good scumhunting. Good reasoning. Good content(better than most with only 2 posts). Town.
Because the attention to detail is used very well in their scum hunting. And he is covering many people instead of one. Possibly trying to find all the scum on day one and lynch them all one-by-one. I would also like the Book of the Past to post their opinions. Short Sweet and Simple.
Depore seems consistent - She is using these same tells whenever she discusses who she finds suspicious or scummy, and she is judging all the players by the same set of criteria. That is, she considers good content and quality of reasoning to be town, and poor content and low quality of reasoning to be scummy. Her hesitation to vote is also consistent with the players she found scummiest adding content to the discussion. I would like her to vote and I would like her read on Just. I consider consistency fairly pro-town, and as a result, I have a slight derptown/newtown read on her right now.
My first glance of Just made me think most of his suspicious play was a result of roleplaying, so I didn't think much of it at the time. I was also expecting him to post more content later. But even ignoring the gut read I get from him playing the Just character, his content needs work, ASAP. I too would like his reads on players other than One, but I would also like him to update his case on One. I find him suspicious largely due to a need for more content.
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Votecount the Ninth - Day 1 Is 2/3rds Done 4
One (2): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan
Mala (1): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Orwen (2): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Moonin (2): Xix, Mala
Iffrita (1): Miya, Yuan
Depore (2): Moonin, Iffrita
Just (1): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus
Yuan (1): Orwen, Depore, One
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Xix (0): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One
Not Voting: Depore
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 24 hours until Night 1.
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You have about 24 hours until Night 1.
And yet we have no majority whatsoever.
What gives? The lynches I'd be okay with right now are on Depore, Just and Mala. Maaaybe Xix too. A lot of people seem to agree Just looks bad, are we going to have to resort to piling on him just so we don't have a 3-player lynch wagon? That would be stupid, even if Just does look like scum. One, Just, Depore, Orwen, Mala, and Moonin are all notable targets at this point, so I think people should start indicating which of those players they think are the best picks. I'm honestly confused about what direction this D1 is progressing in.
Xix and Just need to post already, they've both been focal points of the discussion to some extent and yet they lack good content or opinions. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is scum anticipating a lynch and lurking in hopes that the big bad scary townies will go away if they do.
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Nav-tan doesn't want to play nice anymore. ヽ(；▽；)ノ I haven't been nodding and saying who sounds town when I post. If you're interested I can say it. It's not a good idea~☆ Your gut and I don't get along at all. I got the feeling you were skimming my posts when you didn't notice my unvote meaning Xix wasn't at L-1 when you told him to claim. That doesn't fly with you thinking I was scum all along~☆ You didn't answer why I was an interesting wagon to Xix's counterwagon and not the other way around. I think your suspicion is a reaction to the subtle prodding I've been giving you. I hope you change your mind again~☆
Depore and One immediately stuck me as scum. Depore is a fat-free wafer bar. No content no calories. That chainsaw onto Yuan for One-scum was horrible. Sadly Yuan already pointed this out but what can you do. ლ(?ロ?ლ) One-scum is still scum and you're writing him off too easily. His responses to Yuan have been mudslinging (5 unvotes?) and fluff while eschewing defending himself in lieu of trying to turn suspicion onto lurkers. What about Princess Miya? It's a random name thrown out to get us looking at anyone but him.
Since you're all so eager I'll let you have this while I keep reading. ☆〜（ゝ。∂）
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Hrm...One's post still doesn't address why he thinks Just is scummy, so I'd appreciate that.
@Orwen: Um...actually, consistency is pretty easily faked by scum, and in fact is more likely to come from them. They're the ones double checking their posts so they don't get voted. That said that's a theory argument.
Out of the "notable targets", I will only fully support lynches on Just and One. Mala and Moonin are pretty damn town and I will not be voting them today for anything short of a scum claim. Orwen I have as neutral leaning town, so I suppose I'd place a vote on him if it was a desperately needed lynch situation. I don't think that will happen. Depore, I've told you how I feel on. I'll put her in the same boat as Orwen, only voting in case of desperation.
Iffrita, what do you think of Xix's wagon completely disappearing? I'd have expected at least one or two votes on him still at this point. Actually, I pose this question to everyone. What do you think happened?
@Just: I was going by whoever said he was at L-2, IIRC. As for not answering you, quite honestly it wasn't a question worth answering. It was filler material that was at best noise. Your attack on Depore is interesting, particularly since he's a viable lynch now. A shame you never mentioned him before. At least you're keeping your One suspicion.
So then, do you think I'm actually scum, or are you going to poke me until you find something you think you can get away with attacking :3?
tl;dr Just is still scum who MAY have realized the seriousness of his situation. Kill him with fire, please.
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Also I would LOVE a Princess Miya post but I'm not holding my breath.
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I checked the votecounts around that time just now.
Adding blatant lying to your resume, Just? What a great showing~
Votecount WITH YOUR VOTE REMOVED (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675788.html#msg675788)
Vote Four (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675790.html#msg675790)
Vote Five (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675791.html#msg675791)
VOTE SIX AND LYNCH MINUS FUKKIN ONE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675809.html#msg675809)
Post asking to claim, less than one minute AFTER Mala's unvote, who still was intending to vote Xix, still keeping him at effectively L-1 without the risk of quicklynch (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675812.html#msg675812)
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Xix's wagon? You mean the illusion created by a bunch of people capitalizing on my D1 case and voting Xix for weaker reasons? I'm not surprised it dissipated at all. Ever since my re-read this morning I've been feeling like I was the only person with a sizable case on Xix who actually voted him.
Granted, I don't think Xix looks super townie, especially due to the completely lack of any posts from him. But I'm less interested in his lynch now that Moonin has touched my heart and shown me the light I realize the problem with Depore's vote on him. If you want to know whether or not I would vote with a Xix wagon if one suddenly sprung up again, then it mainly depends on which players I would be voting alongside.
I want to hear from Miya too, actually. I took a second look at her post and noticed that the way she attacked One and Moonin looked an awful lot like she was setting up some later jumps onto easy targets. It'd be neat to see another Mikhail post as well.
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Can't make a big post now, but first:
##Unvote
##Vote:Just
Orwen is still pretty meh, but at least I have some idea of where he stands, and there's no way he's getting lynched today anyway. Just still declining to provide content of note strikes me as far worse.
I'd also love to support a lynch on Xix. Xix, where'd you go?
I'm leaning town on Depore but he needs to post more and get those cases out instead of focusing on the same 4 damn people.
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...who's Mikhail?
/me looks at player list
...uh, yeah! That'd be nice.
Anyway, as for the Xix wagon, or illusion as you call it, usually L-1 wagons have one or two lingerers. It's completely gone. I don't know what it means. I wonder what other people think it means. Still, I appreciate your answer.
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I meant "leaning scum on Depore," sorry. The blatant buddying is also a plus.
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The Xix wagon had two jokevotes on it. At most it was a wagon of 4 people.
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Well, Mala is a technical lingerer. She still evidently suspects Xix, but is parking her vote on Moonin instead for... some reason. I don't really understand why she thinks Moonin is worse than Xix.
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I'm not sure I get it either! Is that where she stands right now? She should elucidate this because Moonin is pretty awesome in my book!
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Also, while I'm at it, I'm going to respond to Just by saying that I've never really understood how talking about your town reads is "bad". Scum consider more than "who is the least likely to get lynched" when going on the nightkill, and even if it is a deciding factor, scum is perfectly capable of figuring out who town doesn't want nuked from orbit without being told anyway.
This might be more of a postgame discussion thing, though.
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About Xix-kun flailing like a little girl. Xix-kun's response to being put to L-1 (or L-2 for people who read unvotes) was large and bolded panic. In response to being asked for opinions he throws suspicion on everyone? ??? And keeps his vote on Moonin. There's no order of suspicion and I'm surprised Nav-tan didn't address the suspicions towards him that Xix-kun voiced. Nav-tan just said okay and moved his vote. Why did the rest of Xix-kun's wagon unvote him after that post again?
On a related note Nav-tan have you noticed Iffri-chan is trailing your heels nodding along with how bad I am?
What gives? The lynches I'd be okay with right now are on Depore, Just and Mala. Maaaybe Xix too. A lot of people seem to agree Just looks bad, are we going to have to resort to piling on him just so we don't have a 3-player lynch wagon?
A lot of people seem to agree Depore looks bad. Why are you asking people to pile on me instead of the person you're voting for?
I think you're uncertain, Nav-tan. And you appear to be right and I'm the one who can't read votecounts. Sorry about that. ┐('～`；)┌ That doesn't explain where his wagon went. I don't think you're considerable today. I responded directly to Depore to answer her why me question. Anyone I haven't been talking to is uninteresting to me. Until I do! Then they are~☆
I have no idea what the Book is accusing me of since I was still writing. Can you explain what content you want? And if I missed questions from someone do repeat.. There's alot of words to get through.
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I seemed to recall a lot of people thinking Depore looked town, not scummy. The only people who really seemed to be willing to lynch her at that point were Mala and Yuan. There was more of a majority on you, so you were the easiest example to use for what I was saying (which wasn't even telling people to pile on you anyway, stop using selective quotations please).
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Can't help it if I'm so blatantly right, Just~. Iffri hasn't really been following me all that much. She agrees with me on you, but is still voting Depore, someone who's lynch I do not support. Doesn't seem to be trailing my heels there. If she were buddy following me, I'd expect her to be voting with me right now.
Secondly, as for Xix, I don't remember him questioning me, but moving my vote wasn't in response to him. Remember, I never actually voted Xix. I was voting Orwen, who responded acceptably to my post. Rereading Xix's post, his poke at me seems completely uninspired and uninteresting. I think by that point I was leaning derptown anyway due to the magic of votes piling on Xix for no apparent reason.
You're still a day late and a dollar short. I don't even find your "content" that interesting. Curious to see what the next installment will say.
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Just, I want you to talk more about your suspicions. You've talked about Xix and Navarus. Are they scum or town? Would you vote for them? Do you think Iffrita is scum?
Your previous post could be summarized as "One is still scum, Depore is waffling and is One's scum buddy for lolchainsaw."
So go get that reread done and then we'll see.
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In short I want to see One-scum and his best buddy Depore dead. Followed by Xix-kun followed by.. wait let me check who Mikhail is. No he looks fine. His case on Orwen isn't as interesting without Xix-kun dying first. So there it is~☆
Okay then. The Book, Yuan and Moonin are town. Nav-tan is being pro-town and if I didn't disagree with his reads he would be on their level. Mikhail is wafer-town. Orwen and Mala are on the border of town and scum. You're scummy.
Cut by something this answers I guess.
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Before I respond, who is the "you" in that post directed towards, Just?
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That clears up a few things. So why One over Depore or Xix?
Seeing as you touched on everyone else, I'm also interested in what you think of Miya, despite her having only one post.
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Orwen, could you summarize your Mala case, and tell us who else you want lynched? It's not very clear.
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Depore could be scum without One-scum. It would make more sense as a pair but on her own Depore has contributed nothing. Is unvoting and leaving the thread the new towntell these days? Nav-tan seems to think so for both Depore and One. Too scummy to be scum is so meta to the meta. ┐( ?∀? )┌ One-scum over Xix-kun is more active lurking over not being here. One over Depore is GUT! versus Gut! One has more emphasis.
Iffri-chan it is addressed to you of course. It won't make you want to hang me any less but I wouldn't lie to you~☆ You can call it selective quoting. I don't believe it misrepresented what you said. Quoting more then you need to is so fluffy~☆
Miya was suposed to be wafer town like Mikhail.
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I don't think One is town, remember? Depore is pissing me off because I'm giving her lots of protection and she's repaying me with awful. Protection doesn't come free you little asdghalifdbvahfebvasdjgbnhaulfibv >=[!
Could you provide concise cases on your scum reads, Just? If you have done so, link back and save us both typing.
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So apparently, I'm scum because you either didn't read my entire post or read it but didn't comprehend the point I was trying to make in it. GDI
What I was trying to say that the most likely possibility seemed to be everyone jumping on you at the end of the day (because, you know, you seemed to be the most likely target for something like that), and how that was a bad thing that we don't want the day to end in. If I had used Depore as my example it would have made no sense because she is my preferred lynch target right now.
If I wanted you lynched more than I wanted Depore lynched, I would have swung the wagons by now. I can't effectively push for a Depore lynch by pressing her right now because she hasn't posted anything since I switched my vote to her. I already know where most people stand on her, what else am I supposed to be doing to meet your apparent criteria for how townies are supposed to push their main case?
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This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676029.html#msg676029)
Nothing
Get to that later
Get to that later
Call it rolefishing, but it is both. The fact that I got to L-1 in the first place is ridiculous, when the first 3 votes were random votes, one person actually made a case, and the last 3 votes were just obvious wagon hops. Look at their reasons for voting me.
##Vote:Xix
Your lack of good reason and aggressive language are very suspicious to me. You shouldn't vote other people for something you are guilty of too. Very Scummy behaviour.
Difficult doesn't mean impossible. In regards to Xix how come you're comparing him to One? I think I'd like to see Xix go more than Demon Navarus though since I can see his actions as being more scum motivated.
##Unvote
##Vote Xix
I find Xix suspicious due to the fact even though he had 3 votes on him at the time, he does not have a case in which he defends himself, but instead focuses on Moonin.
Therefore I have decided :
##Vote Xix
The first one doesn't explain why it's scummy, the second doesn't even try listing a reason, and the third is obviously bad to everyone. This wagon was ridiculous and there was no reason why I should have to claim so early. But I'll let that go for now until I do a propoer read of the head of the Demon clan.
Oh, and you say your post 54 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675754.html#msg675754) you had suspicions of me, then why did you not state it then? That post is just IIoA.
For the blatant wagon hops, I find the last three to vote me suspicious.
PROPHET MALA: You say you see Just as scummy, yet you STILL have yet to provide reasons. Sure, you may say that "now my points were used by Demon Navarus in #137 and #141.", but you never had any points at all! The only thing you mentioned about Just is RVS and asking simple questions. No opinions, nothing. Stop looking like you're in the wagon while being off the wagon. You look scummy for trying to set up opportunities to jump on to Just if he gets popular. Also, your reasons for voting Moonin seem pretty damn vague. You're voting him because you dislike him the most. What the hell is that supposed to mean?! Scummy behavior here.
Moonin, you're cool for now. When you get back to Oska, can you punch him in the face for me? Also, I think I killed him because I lost my precious thing. If anyone has it, can you please return it?
##Unvote
Wise Man Owen/Orwen (Damn you inconsistent sub groups) doesn't really seem that bad to me, so he is not getting lynched.
Just seems okay to me right now because of his new posts. People who wanted Just to post, what do you think now?
Depore... looks... really... REALLY confused, so... I'll just leave her alone for now. Still slightly suspicious.
Turns out I found Princess Yuan's transport. Ehhhh... I gotta say, her playstyle still makes me cringe, but as much as I wouldn't like to say this her content isn't that bad outside of the scumpairing. And delaying her reasoning.
##Vote: Mala
Tch, these 26 cuts I received chasing that fake carriage.
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Demon, did you see my post about how Iffrita called Xix's vote on Moonlin "pushing an easy target"?
I question the validity of Moonlin as an "easy target" firstly.
I then question if it is not true to say that Iffrita's vote was "pushing an easy target" of Xix? (Who's wagon soared to L-2 VERY fast.)
That was my problem with Iffrita. Do you not understand that? I'm not sure I can make this any more clear.
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Well, Moonin was a pretty easy target at the time. Xix was also hypocritical. Iffrita's vote post was fairly solid. What you're making clear relies on assumptions I don't share. Sorry!
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Also, has anyone looked at One's vote for me?
It LITERALLY states "Yuan called me scum" as the reason for why I am scum. That and he accuses me of "misrepresentation" which is a total lie. I have done EVERYTHING I can to avoid doing that. I am taking every measure to ensure I understand your intent.
One is acting like caught scum who is flailing and trying to discredit my case.
P-Edit: Well it seems like we're going to agree to disagree then Demon. I still think you're a strong town read for me though, so that at least is good.
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@Xix: Just's returning posts don't make me feel better about him, no. However, I think I might possibly have an overall negative view of them because getting attacked over a misrep pushes my buttons, especially when it's fairly obvious Just knows he's misrepping me. I find it somewhat likely he only started making the posts because of my suggestion that one of you and him was scum trying to lurk out the day, which gives me the impression of frightened scum.
Still, most of what I dislike about Just is mainly just the impressions I get from the way he has been acting, and it's not nearly concrete as my Depore case. I definitely think there's something worth looking to in the way he seemed to be coasting by voting the obv newbtown for two thirds of the day, but it's not as bad as Depore's original push for a Xix wagon.
I think it's weird that you find the last three wagon hops on you suspicious, but then never actually posted an opinion on One and chose to give Depore a pass. Leaving people alone when you think they're suspicious is not townie behavior, even they come off as "confused". What do you feel about the case I made on Depore when I switched my vote to her?
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@Yuan: Your point on One is noted. Just is still a better lynch. What do you think of Just, Yuan?
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Anyone I haven't been talking to is uninteresting to me. Until I do! Then they are~☆
This sentence sounds to me that you just don't want to voice your opinions for other people. Why? As I think now would be a good time to do something like that.
*hint**hint*
And geez everyone, I go to sleep and wake up finding everyone yelling at me to post. I'm sorry I have to sleep and read up on what happened while I was asleep.
And about contributing nothing, this is my first time ever playing mafia. I still don't have a good idea of what o look for, what to post and all the likes. SO you can't really bame me for messing up something I can't do/do well.
And sorry NavarusT_T I wish I could help more.
6cuts.
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@Depore: ... :/
Just already posted his opinions several posts ago. Grasping at straws, much?
What's your opinion on Just, anyway? You just posted something to make him look bad, but I don't recall you ever attacking him. This could be somewhat vital in helping me decide if I actually want you dead less, I suppose.
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Also, I'm not braining good on Xix's post. I *think* I don't like it but that might just be me generally disliking the lurking magic going on.
@Depore: S'ok, fix it now. Just reread the game, and post an analysis of who you think is scum and why. Don't tell us what they did, tell us why you think they did it. Use only what you feel to be your strongest points. Trying to throw everything and the kitchen sink at someone only discredits you. Don't flip flop on whether someone is scum or town. Just say outright "I think they are scum because X, Y, Z" or "I have a neutral read of them at this time" Things like that. Don't go "This was townie, but THAT was scummy, so I'm not sure what to think" and leave it at that. I kind of figured you were knew, I was just a little irritated at you going away before analyzing. But you're back now.
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Just reads as a mild town read right now, IIRC. I liked his posting on Page 8.
Do you have reason to believe just is scum, Demon?
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Votecount the Tenth - Fuxdamnit stop it with the pink Kiro
One (2): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan
Mala (2): One, Orwen, Iffrita, Xix
Orwen (1): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Moonin (1): Xix, Mala
Iffrita (1): Miya, Yuan
Depore (2): Moonin, Iffrita
Just (2): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus, Book of the Past
Yuan (1): Orwen, Depore, One
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Xix (0): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One
Not Voting: Depore
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 22 hours until Night 1.
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Sure. His early D1 posting is awful (focusing on one player and poking at another isn't exactly the height of protown activity) and his posting now doesn't really make it much better. His main case on Iffrita is a pile of misrep (though I'm sure you're going to disagree with me). His list of reads appears to be mostly unexplained, most of them being drawn from popular opinion. I mean, seriously, show me an opinion of his that isn't misrep or hasn't been expressed before. I see pretty much zero.
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Waaait a minute.
Yuan, you mentioned something about plurality lynches earlier, didn't you?
I just re-read the OP, and unless I misread it, we need a majority to get a lynch in this game. Am I misunderstanding something here? I had been operating under the assumption this game ran on plurality lynches until now. Maybe I'm just an idiot.
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Huh, I actually never checked the rules myself because I prefer to assume we always need a majority lynch. Did Yuan actually say something like that?
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I'm pointing this out because it means our situation is even worse than I thought. We need 7 to lynch... and none of the main cases have more than 2 votes. Augh.
Also, she made that comment here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676089.html#msg676089). I'm wondering what she was trying to get at now. Maybe I just can't process the OP properly.
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I was assuming that D1 was a plurality lynch? That seems to be the norm on this site...
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I wasn't trying to get at anything. I thought that D1 Plurality lynch was the norm on this site. I did not read the OP. Am I mistaken?
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It tends to differ from game to game. The OP says that this game has majority lynches on all days.
A plurality lynch actually sounds nice about now considering that nobody seems to want to agree on a case at all. I'm still holding out in hopes more people will consider Depore. Xix should respond to me about that~
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You're reading the OP right. It says a lack of majority lynch will mean No Lynch. I actually didn't notice that. If I had to guess, Yuan was remembering how last game here went.
So, yeah, I know what you mean. I'll be around before deadline tomorrow, at least (This time for real, because it's like 6 PM for me), so I can switch if necessary, though naturally I'd prefer it not be and we kill Just with fire.
@Yuan: I'm not sure I'd say it's the norm. The past few games have been...interesting with regards to that. But I mean, if you're going to talk about the deadline, you probably should have checked the rules.
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Then why are we fighting Nav-tan? （￣□￣；）I thought what I just said about them was clear. You want to make me write essays for you? Can I just unvote and leave until Day 2 like everyone else? Your protecting Depore is likely why she doesn't feel the need to play with the rest of us. Is this my reward for replying to your accusations? I'll make something concisely telling you about my accusations. I'll not be dapper if you reply to it with nothing more then how interesting it is.
I believe I read it differently then Iffri-chan. I don't want the day to end like that either~☆ Finding more problems with Depore would be a good start. I'm not against it. One is worse then Depore. Depore's playstyle, if we can call it that, is her cutting me to post like an utter derp. （?-?*) I changed my mind. That's too lone player to be scum. I don't think an entire team would miss something I answered already. Xix-kun wins points with me for not bandwagon hopping but I'd like him to tell me what about my content he liked. Now I'm forced to compose on more neutral reads. More tests for Grandpa Nav-tan! ヽ(；▽；)ノ
Nav-tan is just grumpy. I don't really have a case on Iffri-chan. Just a bad feeling that seems to have been misunderstanding. We do need a majority Iffri-chan and I don't think I'm willing to lynch Depore now.
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I'm asking for the opposite of essays. Just a couple sentences on all your scum suspects, and any links you want to throw at me to support your claims. And fair enough, I'll try to give you something in depth, but don't expect me to provide defenses for those you're attacking.
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That's my bad then. I'm sorry if I've misled anyone (I've certainly misled myself >.>)
P-Edit: Demon, ask yourself. Does that last post look like scum trying to avoid a lynch? Or does it look like frustrated town looking to try and prove they are town?
It looks a lot like the interactions between you and I in the last game.
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I disagree. But we'll see if he comes up with anything interesting when he posts his cases. As for interactions between you and I last game, you were town and refused to answer the questions posed to you. Just seems to be complying quite easily with my requests. So the situations aren't really the same at all. Interesting you'd make that comparison though.
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Public Service Announcement: The mod would like to remind everyone to read the rules because Bard plays by different rules. ;_; It'd make me very sad if I had to take punitive actions for things that could've been avoided.
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I disagree. But we'll see if he comes up with anything interesting when he posts his cases. As for interactions between you and I last game, you were town and refused to answer the questions posed to you. Just seems to be complying quite easily with my requests. So the situations aren't really the same at all. Interesting you'd make that comparison though.
I did answer your questions, thank you. You and Bard just decided it was LOLTUNNEL time.
Anyway, this game isn't about that one. I just read Just as town.
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That's fine. Fits well really.
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Orwen, could you summarize your Mala case, and tell us who else you want lynched? It's not very clear.
Sure thing! First, the Mala case.
Mala's first serious vote was on Navarus, because she found his defense of her scummy. At that time, I found it suspicious that she didn't mention Navarus's claim that Depore was town when claiming Navarus was scummy for defending Mala. She has since explained that she wasn't really paying attention to it since it was during the RVS. However, her votes concerning Xix and Moonin is several kinds of strange.
For starters, I don't like her Xix voting patterns. I understand why she unvoted Xix (to take him away from L-1), but I'm unclear about how Moonin is currently worse. In fact, I would like her to take a second look at Moonin's content post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676005.html#msg676005) and tell us what she thinks of Moonin from it; while she did press Moonin, she did not tell us her opinion of the post, which came after her vote on Moonin. However, I know she disliked Xix's first content post, which came before her vote on Moonin:
As for unvoting Xix: I did it because he had been placed at L-1. As for Xix's #79, I don't like it all that much. The entire post consists of Xix defending himself and commenting on a few people with no real content.
Furthermore:
Depore? I would prefer other lynches at this point.
I do however also find her #115 disconcerting. After stating that she finds Moonin to be scummy for unknown reasons she calls his "content" post as really townie. The "content" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) that I'd still like some questions answered (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676029.html#msg676029) (It should actually read @Xix #73.) about. It seems like Depore simply got scared off by the size of the post instead of really looking at the content. (of which half comes from a liberal use of the enter key and large size font while announcing how many times he had been cut.)
Actually Depore is just as bad as Xix, Moonin and Just.
Between the beginning of the post and the end, she goes from Depore not being a high priority to being just as bad as her other three scum picks. In fact, one of my greatest concerns about her play stems from this: She has freely gone from Xix to Moonin with relatively little explanation, and she's giving herself a lot of flexibility by stating that her reads are about equal. She doesn't seem to be very committed to her reads, instead allowing them to be as flexible as she needs them to be. Thus, I think she's likely to be scum. Of these reads, the one she's explained the least is her Just read, and I would like her to expand it in light of Just's recent posts.
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Finding more problems with Depore would be a good start.
I don't really know why my case needs more meat to it. I could throw off a shotgun attack nitpicking at everything Depore has posted, but that's just going to subtract from the overall worth of my case.
I think Depore is scum because she made an opportunistic vote on Xix that failed to actually explain why Xix is scum, and I think that this is something newbscum trying to start a townie wagon would do. Adding to this is her choice to throw out slight suspicion towards equally easy targets such as One and Moonin, then retract it when they post substantial content (like she did towards Moonin). She's basically looking for easy cases to jump on.
Anything else I could add to my points would just be padding, really. These are the points that I see the most scum intent in coming from Depore.
Can you explain why you think One is worse than Depore? His play is bad, but I believe Moonin put it best when he said that bad play is only indicative of skill. I don't see the type of scummy motivation coming from him that I can easily see coming from Depore.
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Is that at me or Just, Iffrita?
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That's towards Just. I was quoting him, after all.
Though, I would appreciate it if most people supporting the One lynch explain why they think he has more scum intent than Depore does. The reason I never particularly asked you about this, Nav, is because I figured the main reason you were giving Depore passes was because of personal reads that I wouldn't really expect to change.
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That's basically it. Though oddly enough, my thing about One is that I feel his L-1 vote on Xix was super opportunistic in the newbscum way that you seem to find Depore scum. Hence why I was wondering if you wanted a further answer from me.
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I expect you to vote for someone else~☆ I'm allergic to fire~☆ And I always try to answer reasonable requests~☆
Stop fighting with Yuan-town for disagreeing with you when you're wrong. You should be checking other people as well as I.
Your case needs more to it Iffri-chan if other members of town aren't taking it. Admittedly Depore's return post has her throwing suspicion at me conveniently when I'm a hot topic. Everyone wants a little of me (*?∀?)=3 But it strikes me as town trying to fit in amongst all the loud voices. Why is Depore worse then One? Her play is bad, but I can see more scummy motivation coming from One.
One
is Chitose obvious scum
Decided to get neutral when the game got serious. His statement about how neutral players are suspicious while trying to stay neutral is why I voted him in the first place. Staring at this post again http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2722 brings back my original lynching feelings. He's spent more posts telling us theories on how to get information then actually giving us information. I can summarize his posts as not voting or voting someone he states he does not think is scum followed by lurkers being the scummiest followed by not reading the lurker content followed by voting Yuan for attacking him. That's his reason. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676346.html#msg676346 Why isn't he dead yet? (ＴAＴ)
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Princess Miya has been prodded.
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Oh, I have my list of reads already. You're here though, so why not question you?
Is One your only remaining case? I'll admit it's fairly solid though. I'll ruminate on it a little.
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I must admit that I'm embarrassed that I forgot about One. Unfortunately, I'm taking a trip to Thanatos for a while, so I'll post back in a few hours when I arrive.
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@Nav: Actually, that's the part of the One case I find to be the most agreeable. It really becomes a toss up over which position you think newbscum would be more likely to make. I believe Depore looks scummier because she seemed to go for the early point on the wagon where she would have a larger chance of blending in, which makes sense as something that would be combined with her opportunism. As for One, I don't think this is One's first game, but even if it is, I think that the contents of the RVS would be enough for him to realize that late votes on wagons look rather iffy. Scum!One would be drawing unnecessary attention to himself by placing Xix at so many votes, and I think he would have actually gone for Moonin instead, seeing as he was clearly in the place where he could do so. The awkward prioritization looks like a derp mistake to me.
Additionally, One's case on Xix seems like he was looking for scum intent to me, even though the case itself made no sense. Depore doesn't have this luxury. I realize this is just an interpretation argument, but I hope you can at least understand my side better from what I'm explaining.
@Just: I expect to be lambasted for this, but I believe that completely neutrality tends to a null tell when seen in weaker players. I've seen enough newbtowns who actually have inward struggles trying to figure out who they think is scum that I find it difficult to think otherwise. I think aggressive attempts to start wagons like what Depore tried are a lot more indicative of newbscum status than not being able to form opinions.
The hypocrisy doesn't really bug me because I don't see how it's scummy hypocrisy. I know you seem to believe he's scum by his own logic, but if you read into One's post and suspicions then it starts to seem a little like he's focusing more on lurking than actual neutrality, only failing to properly explain himself.
The One case as a whole feels rather mechanical to me. It's like people are automatically jumping him for what they know to be bad play, without actually thinking about whether or not newbscum would want to make these bad plays here and why they would actually do so. This is a very good way to get bad townies lynched for being bad at the game. The only point about One which I feel holds any water is the way he jumped on Xix, and even then, I feel Depore's jump on Xix is a lot more worthy of scrutiny.
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Ugh...you know what? I'm going to do something stupid.
I'm going to stick on Just, despite the fact my brain is demanding he's town. It wants to agree with the case on One. But my gut is screaming at me that Just has to be scum. I really hate throwing such a move out there because it's literally something you can't defend against. It's demotivating. I'm trying to get AWAY from that sort of behavior. But it's what I have.
...what makes this worse is the fact that if I push bullheadedly forward with Just scum, I'm going to have to either accept One is newbtown, or that Just has been bussing him all of D1. To be honest, I'm not really willing to do an in depth analysis of which is more likely until I have one of their flips. But I will say that my inclination is to pull off of One a bit and put him in the desperation lynch pile, effectively making the only lynch with my full support Just.
So...that's my stance. I figured it'd be better than getting into a situation where I'm making non genuine cases and such.
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EBWOP: Of course I will switch to the leading wagon to secure a lynch at deadline (Assuming it's not one of my strong town reads like Moonin. I will fight hard for a counterwagon)
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Perhaps. I'm checking my list twice.
Since they both only have one post reading Mikhail and Miya is quickest.
Miya
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675876.html#msg675876
An annoying observation about Miya. She names suspicious behaviour in four different players and then votes Iffri-chan for holding onto suspicion on Mala after unvoting her. It's a defense of Mala disguised by waiting until the unvote to defend her. I don't know why this looked good the first time I read it. I would lynch her just for this~☆
Mikhail
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675937.html#msg675937
Mikhail makes a vote on Orwen by defending Mala from him is there an echo in here? ┐(￣ー￣)┌ A fundamental difference is his post is an actual case on his suspect combined with a town read. He adds a new point (Xix-kun's waffling) to the case and states his secondary suspect along with his read on One. Strikingly town.
Nav-tan shouldn't make this into a two person choice. It's not the last hour. Forcing me to have more then one scum read while trying to force my lynch as your ONLY SCUM READ is hypocritical.
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You're not my only scum read, but I have reasons for holding back one of mine at this time. I know it seems weird and kind of bad, but link this post tomorrow (if we're both alive). I feel that you or One flipping will help me figure out a third scum read. I feel stronger on my scum read on you, because I trust my gut more than my head. That could be foolish, but I'll try it for now.
As for a two person choice, my main reason for that is because I really don't have scummy vibes from the other four on the table.
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My my, the time goes by. And time lost cannot be regained unfortunately.
I am not sure if I will be here by deadline tomorrow, so I will list the players I would vote for.
Xix (#1 choice now)
Orwen (#2)
Depore (#3)
One (#4)
I have strong town reads on Book #1, Yuan #2, Iffrita #3, Just #4, Miya #5 in that order. Anyone I didn't mention I lean as neutral.
I am firmly against a Just lynch and would much rather vote my #1 and #2 scum choice over my #3 and #4 and below. I can not go into specifics at the moment, but I am not inspired by Xix's lastest post which continues to impress upon me retrograde scum hunting.
I at least understand more of Orwen's case on Mala (and it made sense reading it), which is why I downgraded him, although I am not clearing him.
About my town reads: I find myself agreeing with MOST of the opinions of Yuan, Book, Iffrita, and Just. I agree with their reasoning, and many of their conclusions. Most importantly, I think their intent is town. I believe Miya to be town because of a rare town-meta exhibited by this player, as well as okish logic and what I believe is town intent.
##Unvote
##Vote: Xix
I would like to see this wagon gain momentum once more. As much as I believe Чшч ещ иу ысгь Ш ерштл ерфе Чшч шы еру иуые днтср ащк штащкьфешщт фы цуддю
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I'm the only one you're willing to vote for. That makes me your only scum read. Anything you say otherwise is lacking the only proof that matters. Your vote. I feel like your excuse for getting another scum read isn't a good enough reason give up and accept a stupid Day 1 town lynch. Forget you. Huddle in the corner and wait for the day to be over then. I'll be over here actually trying to find the scum.
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I don't think lynching you would be stupid. But it's fine to not continue our debate. At this point my thing is gut. If we have anything to discuss it'll be opinions of other players.
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I don't like the concept of lynching based on information like Mikhail and Navarus are suddenly suggesting, though I'm not particularly faulting them for it since they're treating it as a bonus rather than using it to attack their non-scum reads. Still, I want to know how Navarus thinks Just's death will help her find a third scum suspect, when from my point of view, Just has actually had very few "telling" interactions with the current unknowns of the game.
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Suggesting is the wrong term, really. More like... implying? Mentioning? I don't know.
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Just has been a fairly polarizing player. While his own play has been holding his cards fairly close to the chest, the discussion generated about Just has some telling things going on. I'll also admit Just's lynch will help me more directly get a read on One's alignment, though admittedly I need to do a reread to figure out which way I'll swing there. I'd prefer to save that for after having a flip. Rereads tend to sap my will to play the game, and I'd rather keep myself at 100% during the mafia days (Yeah, I know, something new I'm trying) I'm aware of the disadvantage being I could potentially die tonight.
One has also been a polarizing player, and also has ties to other players he's originated. From an information standpoint, he's a better lynch. I just can't honestly say my scum read on him is stronger than my read on Just.
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My Non-Mala reads:
I'm willing to lynch Xix. While he hasn't done anything I found particularly scummy, he hasn't done anything I found particularly good either. His first content post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) was almost entirely reactionary, and while his case on Mala in his second content post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676470.html#msg676470) is fairly good, I would appreciate more depth in his other reads. I would like to know if there are any players other than Mala he would be willing to lynch and why, and I would like to know why he changed his mind on Moonin. I'm having a hard time seeing where he's coming from, which makes him suspicious.
I don't find Moonin particularly suspicious, and I would oppose his lynch at this time. While brief and infrequent, the posts he does make (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676005.html#msg676005) have brought up quite a few good points. I would like to see him post more frequently though.
While I am having some trouble parsing the content of Just's posts through the ~☆, I'm noticing he's bringing up a lot of original points on One and a few on Depore as well. I've gotten a neutral read on him now that he's posted; I wouldn't oppose his lynch, but I'm not particularly in favor of it either.
Depore and One are very hard players for me to judge properly, and the strangest thing about them is how divided town is about them. We have Just and Demon Navarus on one side thinking Depore is more town, and Moonin and Iffrita on the other thinking One is better. Frankly, they're both somewhat suspicious. They both had bad votes on Xix, and they both had no vote out for half the day. I found Depore has been consistent in her reasoning, which while as Navarus pointed out is not as good a town tell as I might like, it is better than One's vote for Yuan.
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Before I turn in for the night:
Mala, Miya, One, and Depore:
Moonin, Ifrita, and Yuan are unlikely to be lynched today. We need to start compromising if we're going to get a lynch, bringing our votes together until we have a player that the majority of us would be satisfied seeing lynched.
Of Mala, Just, One, Depore, and Xix, which would you each be willing to vote for, and which would you like to see lynched the most?
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Silence! I'm a princess I can spell however the bleep I- (ok I'll get it right from now on)
85 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675892.html#msg675892). Xix at the time read to me as flailing derp town. The cases that made him a wagon were also super terrible, Ms. book. It made me question the motives of the wagoners since bad cases on one of my town reads was just... bad.
Mother's 87 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675906.html#msg675906). Hmm, fair enough. You are the ONLY person with a case though~ The fact that his wagon has now dissolved into thin air only further cements my read of derp town with a bunch of bad cases on him that caused Xix to explode!~
I like how you think you can have it both ways on some people though. Scum is perfectly capable of making "decent cases" and I do not intend to clear Iffrita for being able fo do that! ufu <3 The having it both ways that she has been displaying is outwieghing everything else she's done that people seem to think she looks good for~
Mommy is #1 scum, but no one wants to lynch her with me. I'm watching you!~
One had the worst easy jump onto Xix in my opinion and I'm even furthered to believe this after his 97 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675932.html#msg675932). After his explaination for his Xix case, which apparently doesn't exist, I'm still not buying he legitamitly was voting Xix because he thought Xix was scum.
Now he starts BSing reasons. 123 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676098.html#msg676098) mob mentality... you're dropping Xix completely because his wagon is disapating and you've realized it was a terrible case with a terrible wagon? ufu It's almost like you're making excuses or somethi-
Oh wait you are!
129 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676111.html#msg676111) classic example of scummy deflection. Your post basically went, "yeah but what about MIYA! She only posted once!" Yeah... and are you not taking the content of my post into account when you say that, since quality is much better than quantity. Whole ordeal is just defense, he's making no attempt to try and find scum during that entire spat with Yuan, so consequently it's scummy.
##Unvote:
##Vote: One
Moonin's 104 was good and I don't find him suspicious now.
Depore: I don't want to pursue right now because she shows conviction behind he actions. Even if what she's doing is wrong and silly at times, I can see earnest new townie intent in her actions because at least she's trying to pursue something. When she makes the little remarks about Yuan here, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676143.html#msg676143)she shows enough conviction that makes me believe she has town intent even if the vote on Yuan is silly~ So the cases people are trying to make on Depore, I'm not buying it.
Just~
First your wrong point about me defending Mala. Look again. My suspicion of the Empress was not because she "held onto suspicions of Mala," that's a rediculous misrep. I voted her because her reasoning on Mala was strange and not making sense the way I read it. That coupled with her hypocrisy about Depore and Xix made me vote her so thank you for that~ 87 did clear up Iffrita's thought process for me about Mala though.
Speaking of misreps, you seem to be good at them 137 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676148.html#msg676148).
Why it takes you constant poking and prodding by the other players to get you to speak about people and more poking to get you to say if they are scummy or not is something I do not like about you. Scummy don't like.
Bet that I will get behind this lynch.
Mikhail! Have you seen through my guise already!? D:
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Uh...what?
Miya, I have no idea what's going on in your post. I'll ask this before I head to bed though. Did you mean to link my post when accusing Just of misrep? Or, uh, did you mean to start a new section on me and got sidetracked somewhere? I'm kind of confused here...
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Miya, I have no idea what you're trying to say you suspect me for. Elaborate, please.
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Why don't you something new Nav-tan~☆ Instead of lynching for information let's lynch scummy players for being scum~☆
I think I figured out why a wagon hasn't formed. No one wants to be third~☆ And cut by the princess has taking the leap. I keep being told I'm misrepresenting. Words have different interpretations. It did look to me like you waited until Iffri-chan moved her vote from Mala to attack her. I maintain that everything I've pointed out is what I believe to be true~☆ Besides my points on you what do you think of what I've actually said? We seem to share alot of opinions.
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Votecount the Eleventh - I <3 u too Bard
One (3): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan, Miya
Mala (2): One, Orwen, Iffrita, Xix
Moonin (1): Xix, Mala
Depore (2): Moonin, Iffrita
Just (2): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus, Book of the Past
Yuan (1): Orwen, Depore, One
Xix (1): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One, Mikhail
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Orwen (0): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Iffrita (0): Miya, Yuan
Not Voting: Depore
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 18 hours and 20 minutes until Night 1.
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@Miya: Oh wait. I think I can kind of tell what you're saying, actually.
It seems more like you're attacking my apparent methods of scumhunting without checking how they are applied or whether or not they actually fit in with your case. I had more reasons for my vote on Xix than him simply "voting an easy target" that would make the same case invalid if used on my Xix vote. You're thinking of Depore's case, not mine. Beyond that, I disagree that Xix was as easy of a target as Moonin, and I even described why Moonin was a bad target when I explained my case. I kind of think that there's more to your case on me than meets the eye which I can't really defend myself against (ie, gut), because otherwise I can't imagine you'd be pushing me as your top scum pick when your case on One seems more substantial.
The Depore point in your first post I can't really defend against other than by saying that I was tunneled on Xix hard at the time.
I still feel the One case is mechanical and am not happy that it is the first case to take a push over 2 votes. Some Depore votes would be nice about now. It bugs me that Miya is giving Depore a pass for having conviction when aggressive newbscum are obviously going to have conviction, otherwise they wouldn't be aggressive. ... That, and I disagree her conviction is truly there in all situations. Even though she maintains an appearance of having a consistent case on Xix, her vote lacks the conviction she has with her cases. Note how easily she was shaken off of Yuan, despite her initial aggressiveness.
Actually, now that I look at it again, Depore's entire Yuan unvote could easily be interpreted as newbscum trying to avoid pissing off a player she judged as being volatile and likely to get on her case in reaction. I'm not okay with it.
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Iffrita's idea just above: No, I'm accusing you of sitting on the fence on things you can easily swing either way on and these are what make me think that.
Moonin's post made me realize the players I had as my two alternate suspects in my #87 were the first two people to vote Xix seriously... hm. I strongly believe that Xix's play has been blatantly terribad so far and am surprised people have been giving him passes, but the way the other players jumped onto his wagon is starting to make me doubt myself.
I'll concede that I was probably wrong on Xix, if only because a second look at Depore's vote makes me feel like the Xix wagon was a construct being used by scum for an earlygame push. If I turn out to be wrong on Depore I'll probably reconsider. Xix still needs to post some better content, though. I will rage if we end up letting him coast by on all the passes we're giving him.
You either were wrong, or you weren't and watching you do this multiple times is making me see scum intent in you.
I still feel the One case is mechanical
What does this mean?
As for this thing: "Speaking of misreps, you seem to be good at them 137." That was supposed to be edited out so pretend it isn't there because it's stupid.
Just, we do have the same opinions about things. But to get them out of you was like pulling teeth and that's what concerned me and makes me think you are scummy.
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The reason that the first post happened in the middle of the day was because Moonin's post made me realize I was probably being too unwilling to consider other possibilities regarding my Xix case. Which I'm pretty sure I was, seeing how my stances are now fairly different. In #106 I was about to go to sleep but wanted to give the town some sort of notion that I was reconsidering, as to help people understand my thought process if I did indeed choose to drop my Xix tunneling the following morning.
Where is the scum intent in the second post coming from? The problem with saying that I was either wrong or I wasn't is that I have no way of telling which is the case until flips come into play. I'm not sure why you think I have clairvoyance as to everyone's alignments, unless you built up that case already under the assumption I was scum. There still seem to be communication difficulties here.
I already explained why I dislike the One case in my #234.
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Shortened version of the defense of my #106: I realized Moonin had a point about the Xix wagon, but still wanted to believe my side held water. I was about to go to bed and didn't have the time to re-read, so I made a post implying I was reconsidering to tell everybody that I intended to sleep on it.
I don't this was really fence-sitting so much as laying out my thought process somewhat. I might have written out my post poorly when I made it, though.
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You're all ungrateful. I feel no incentive to finish writing about Xix Mala and Orwen before sleep claims me. Short story being I would vote Mala over Xix and save Orwen to tomorrow. I'm annoyed Mala joined the callouts on Xix-kun and myself then disappeared right after my posts appeared. Not interested in my answers? Her suspicions are all the wagons with her vote being on none of them. Lol? （ ?∀｀）
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Votecount the Twelfth
One (3): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan, Miya
Mala (2): One, Orwen, Iffrita, Xix
Moonin (1): Xix, Mala
Depore (2): Moonin, Iffrita
Just (2): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus, Book of the Past
Yuan (1): Orwen, Depore, One
Xix (1): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One, Mikhail
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Orwen (0): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Iffrita (0): Miya, Yuan
Not Voting: Depore
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 16 hours until Night 1.
Moonin has been prodded. 5 out of 13 players have now received prods. I am growing annoyed.
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Cutting myself, wheeee.
Just, if you do have opinions on Xix, Mala, and Orwen, I highly suggest you share them, or at least give a short summary. My main issue with you is that you are pushing a case and vote on someone I think is more than likely town (One), when I think you have pretty good cases on other people that you could be voting for. I'll expand more on this in a bit.
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In particular, what makes you think that One is newbscum, as opposed to newbtown? I find the overall complete lack of opinion to be more frustratingly bad than scummy. If One was scum, he would at least have buddies who would give him something to work with. It's not like you're all pillars of towniness here.
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I just gave you an opinion on one of those. Xix is the same reason as before. He has two jokevotes before his flailing panic. Yes I know his vote on Moonin seemed like an attempt to be serious. Wasn't serious enough for me~☆ Orwen just isn't interesting when I glance over him. He seems logical. Regarding One I'm not going to unvote scum doing scummy things because of pressure from other town when I haven't seen One in ages. Who else would you vote for Book? I have no idea why you think he's town still. He's tried to form an opinion with votes a few times. See his current vote on Yuan. Which you agree with?
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I'm not a fan of the vote on Yuan, but I can see where it's coming from.
I do realize that One's disappearing act looks quite horrible, and I really wish he would get in here and bloody post something so I can see if my read is still justified.
As for who else I'll vote for, I'll get to that in a bit. I'm probably going to be switching to Xix in my next big post because the thing is, aside from your vote on One, I'm mostly agreeing with the rest of your opinions.
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Figures I'd come back to enough posts to fill a second gen pokedex.
It'll probably be 5 hours before I finish reading, and another hour before I can post something helpful. By then, I'll be heading for bed.
For now, Still leaning Depore or Mala, but my case is probably outdated.
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Ugh. Fine I don't want to argue about it anymore. If One-scum posts something decent I'll switch. This would have the added benefit of denying Nav-tan of both his flips and letting him feel my frustration. (?･ω･`)
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Forgot to address this:
He's tried to form an opinion with votes a few times.
Right, he has, and they've been pretty weak votes overall. But I think they look earnest, like he's trying to look for scum intent and is just being miserably bad at it. This is clearly a point of disagreement.
Cut by Just, sure, fine by me. If One fails to impress with his next post I might even change my mind, woohoo. Anyway, my original point was that it felt like you were giving up in #253 (or stalling, as it may be), and I like my fellow players to be active debaters. :3 Stay and talk with us!
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I've been... divining a little too much and I'm tired.
People appear to be wondering about why I switched to Moonin after dropping Xix. I dropped my vote after Xix was placed at L-1 and decided that instead of leaving my vote floating around on nobody it would be better to place it on Moonin to try to get a response out of him.
What do I dislike about Moonin, some of you ask? His first vote was a late random vote or so it would appear, anyway. His vote was placed onto Xix, who had the second most votes at the time. He proceeded to continue to vote Xix and, when questioned by Xix about his lack of content, he simply responded with a statement asking Xix to be more gentle with his words. His next post is where he jumps onto One's wagon with a good point involving One's suspicion of Xix being founded on the inability to defend himself from random votes. In #104 he states that he feels like giving Xix a pass due to the "bad intentions" he feels from the votes on the wagon. These bad intentions, I assume, belong to myself and Depore. He says that he regards One's action as a null tell because he believes that One did not mean to place Xix at L-1. What he appears forget though, is that he had been accusing One of having a bad case one Xix. Moonin then proceeded to switch to Depore. Note that this occurs only after several people have questioned Depore's motives.
After his first series of posts, he was questioned about his lack of content to which he replies that he is simply being concise and that he is not withholding information from us. Yet in the previous posts he fails to mention anything about the players outside of who he is voting for. Every post of his from the second post onwards had been in the midst of serious discussion and there were far more people participating than simply One. His most recent post is not very helpful either, hopefully when he returns he will have something more to say.
In summation, I believe that Moonin backtracked (is this the right term for it?) on his stance on One and has been voting opportunistically whilst contributing little to the discussion.
As for Just: His first serious vote was an easy case on One. Despite the fact that he raised valid points on other players at the time, he went for the easy vote and camped there. He does not bother to put any further effort into his One case. He simply tells people that One should be lynched instead whilst poking and prodding several other people.
Depore hasn't said anything of note since I posted #169 and so my case remains the same.
I will not be around for the deadline and so, if I am unable to get a wagon on Moonin started before I must take my leave, I will switch my vote to Just as it appears as though the most likely lynch for today will be either myself, One, Depore or Just and I believe that Just has the highest likelihood of flipping scum.
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Cut by Mala. Why Moonin over everyone else? What do you think of his Depore vote? Also, what do you think of Just's recent content?
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Because
he refuses to aid me with my divination I think his actions are the scummiest.
There isn't much I can say about Moonin's vote on Depore. After placing his vote on her he hasn't said much at all. I find it strange how he seems to acknowledge that Depore has a case, yet words his paragraph about Depore to make it seem as though the only reason she voted for Xix was because she disliked Xix's tone.
In regards to Just's more recent posts I'll admit that they look solid. However, the stars tell me that Just is likely to be scum, so I'll believe in them for the time being.
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Orwen's latest posts give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Enough to drop him for today.
I realize a lot of what I don't like about Depore are the repeated (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676161.html#msg676161) promises (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676478.html#msg676478) to deliver content without actually delivering. Being a new player and being unsure of yourself is okay, but not having opinions is not. Stop playing the newbie card and get in here and make cases (this applies to One too, by the way). Anyway, I'm not sure how to explain it, but I get more scum intent out of Depore's posting than from One's. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676034.html#msg676034)is waffly in terms of scum reads. Depore is more typographically elegant, but hell, I can get more opinions out of One's posts than Depore's. I'll try to clarify this later, but I'd appreciate if people who are comparing the two would read them side by side; I want to see where people agree and disagree.
@Depore: Depore, could you share your updated scum reads? Don't worry too much about making your cases good enough or being the paragon of scumhunting; as long as what you post makes sense and is decently logical, it should be fine. Otherwise, not providing cases looks like scum stalling.
I could probably support a wagon on Depore, but I want him to post first.
I dislike how Mala has kept her vote parked on Moonin for the longest time, but her recent explanations seems valid enough that I'd only grudgingly support her lynch (say if One was the only counterwagon and I still had a town read on One). The Just point raises an eyebrow, but eh whatever. I'm going to reread her again tomorrow after Moonin posts. Ah, I almost forgot. What do you think of Xix?
I don't like Xix's follow-up post. Is this all you have to offer, after all this time? The content in that post is the case on Mala, and I don't get the same intent from it as I do from say, Orwen's post. It looks like nitpicking at wording. I'd like for Xix to respond to Mala, and I want to see how his case has evolved. The rest of the post reads as filler and padding.
Just is looking better now, but she should still keep talking.
##Unvote
##Vote:Xix
As another note, something about Miya feels off, but I'm not sure what it is yet. Something to do with conviction blah blah. I'll reread her tomorrow when I'm not dead tired.
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Actually, Mala, here's a better question. In the likely event that neither Moonin or Just will be lynched, whose lynch would you support?
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Xix? I love the guy. He's so helpful when it comes to divining.
I would prefer to see Depore lynched over Xix. Xix is starting to look better with his more recent post but his early game still consists mostly of... very little.
The main thing that I dislike about him is that a lot of his content is simply answering other's questions and defending himself.
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O Miya, I was using the power of the moon!
Anyway, I'm glad the Xix wagon is being reanimated, but unfortunately I won't be around until 2-3 hours after the deadline from this point forward.
I kept flip-flopping on my Mala read from could be town---could be scum and back again.
Since Orwen is safe for today, and his recent posts are better (I haven't yet considered their full implications yet), I'd vote
Xin #1
Depore #2
One #3
Well Since I am leaving soon to start the next camp day (GOOOOOO CHESSS!) I can only pray Xix gets some more votes. I find it odd that some of the same people that voted him are now protecting him. Xix = Shadoweh aBGM D1 early wagon 2.0 (I wonder how Just would feel about that).
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@Book of the Past: I have no idea who you want my opinions for. So suggest someone. Also if you have a basic layout of what you want answered then that'll help since I obviously can't make cases very well (it is my first time).
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Depore could be scum without One-scum. It would make more sense as a pair but on her own Depore has contributed nothing. Is unvoting and leaving the thread the new towntell these days? Nav-tan seems to think so for both Depore and One. Too scummy to be scum is so meta to the meta. ┐( ?∀? )┌ One-scum over Xix-kun is more active lurking over not being here. One over Depore is GUT! versus Gut! One has more emphasis.
Also leaving the thread...without a vote...I was...well actually I don't even know what time you are talking about. I had a vote before I left last time I checked, and the part about active lurking...that was just leaving the browser on while gaming...problem?
Also s your saying "Gut" is also something you need to find scum?
Also if active lurking (leaving the browser on while I play other games) is so bad, then why is not being here better?
You can also answer me this is leaving the Browser on While I Game a Horrible Idea?
Is it a Bad Idea to Leave the Browser on just to get back faster when I'm done with a game?
I believe I read it differently then Iffri-chan. I don't want the day to end like that either~☆ Finding more problems with Depore would be a good start. I'm not against it. One is worse then Depore. Depore's playstyle, if we can call it that, is her cutting me to post like an utter derp. （?-?*) I changed my mind. That's too lone player to be scum. I don't think an entire team would miss something I answered already. Xix-kun wins points with me for not bandwagon hopping but I'd like him to tell me what about my content he liked. Now I'm forced to compose on more neutral reads. More tests for Grandpa Nav-tan! ヽ(；▽；)ノ
If we go by what your saying, shouldn't "Depore's playstyle" also fit to throw you off?.
If we go by what your saying, should not changing your votes to wagons also a better idea?
Points? Bandwagon?
I expect you to vote for someone else~☆ I'm allergic to fire~☆ And I always try to answer reasonable requests~☆
Stop fighting with Yuan-town for disagreeing with you when you're wrong. You should be checking other people as well as I.
Your case needs more to it Iffri-chan if other members of town aren't taking it. Admittedly Depore's return post has her throwing suspicion at me conveniently when I'm a hot topic. Everyone wants a little of me (*?∀?)=3 But it strikes me as town trying to fit in amongst all the loud voices. Why is Depore worse then One? Her play is bad, but I can see more scummy motivation coming from One.
One
is Chitose obvious scum
Decided to get neutral when the game got serious. His statement about how neutral players are suspicious while trying to stay neutral is why I voted him in the first place. Staring at this post again http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2722 brings back my original lynching feelings. He's spent more posts telling us theories on how to get information then actually giving us information. I can summarize his posts as not voting or voting someone he states he does not think is scum followed by lurkers being the scummiest followed by not reading the lurker content followed by voting Yuan for attacking him. That's his reason. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676346.html#msg676346 Why isn't he dead yet? (ＴAＴ)
This is something that makes me feel more sad, your assuming that I knew how to play this well.
Even still, are you trying to say lurkers are not likely to be scum?
I just gave you an opinion on one of those. Xix is the same reason as before. He has two jokevotes before his flailing panic. Yes I know his vote on Moonin seemed like an attempt to be serious. Wasn't serious enough for me~☆ Orwen just isn't interesting when I glance over him. He seems logical. Regarding One I'm not going to unvote scum doing scummy things because of pressure from other town when I haven't seen One in ages. Who else would you vote for Book? I have no idea why you think he's town still. He's tried to form an opinion with votes a few times. See his current vote on Yuan. Which you agree with?
You haven't seen me in ages because I left the forum on and went to play other games that would distract me somewhat from mafia, and even I need sleep.
Also, has anyone looked at One's vote for me?
It LITERALLY states "Yuan called me scum" as the reason for why I am scum. That and he accuses me of "misrepresentation" which is a total lie. I have done EVERYTHING I can to avoid doing that. I am taking every measure to ensure I understand your intent.
One is acting like caught scum who is flailing and trying to discredit my case.
I don't think i put misrepresentation in there...are you starting to assume things to much...?
@Just: You continuously try to drag people into your wagon even when you don't post reasons, I also find the fact that your vote stayed on me and not anyone else, throughout the game on your 2nd vote. It makes me wonder why are you so aggressive against my actions, yet you show not as much for anyone else.
@Yuan I find the fact that no one besides me attempted a bad light on Yuan alittle...as others have said..."unnerving".
Everyone has flaws. I shudder at the about the effort your putting in.
Still I forgive you, after all looking for information and pressuring someone is the same thing for this game,
I shall take fire once again afterall apparently "Town does not care about appearances".
##Unvote
##Vote Just
While I can forgive Yuan for having multiple opinions, From what I read on you Just, it looks like your mostly ignoring other targets, and have much less of opinions on others. I would like for you to clearly state once again in your words, why I would have a higher priority then some others. I wish for you to make an opinion on you assume to be scum.
Even if I am theres the chance I am contradicting myself, Make more opinions on who you find scummy.
If you can do this it shows you actually been reading, but it also shows you've been blowing most of every else's opinions off.
But if you can't then it shows that you only focused on me from the start.
In light there will always be darkness...
I wish luck to all.
Oh and please remind me again if I missed something completely.
Oh before I completely forget about this post since I forgot about it.
So you want me to explain MAFIA THEORY to you now? Good Lord.
Appeasement is scummy because it's a way for scum to try and deflect and avoid suspicion. Scum has clear motivation to do it.
This is really insulting to me about the way you said this, your completely assuming that I know how to play mafia completely.
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Depore:
Of Mala, Just, One, Depore, and Xix, which would you each be willing to vote for, and which would you like to see lynched the most?
You should place your vote on whichever viable lynch you think is the most likely to be scum. It would also be helpful to tell us which of these five players you would and would not be willing to lynch, with your reasons for each.
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Votecount the Thirteenth
One (3): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan, Miya
Mala (2): One, Orwen, Iffrita, Xix
Moonin (1): Xix, Mala
Depore (2): Moonin, Iffrita
Just (2): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus, Book of the Past, One
Xix (2): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One, Mikhail, Book of the Past
Yuan (0): Orwen, Depore, One
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Orwen (0): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Iffrita (0): Miya, Yuan
Not Voting: Depore
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 10 hours and 30ish15 minutes until Night 1.
Play nice.
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I can't stay here any longer, the urge to divine the future is far too strong. But before I go to engage in some divination:
##Unvote
##Vote Just
If any of you want to help me with my divination feel free to visit.
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@ Orwen:
I think I'm the best lynch target by far lol no.
Frankly, I'm so confused about who to vote and why. But there was one person who I thought of that had my exact reason tossed around a few times...
##Vote:Just
My main reason for voting you was because I thought you were only focusing on one person (later on it was two) while at the same time, trying to avoid having to give some more opinions out. A general townie would have more opinions, right? Your comment "I only post on the people I find interesting. If I don't post on them, Then they're uninteresting to me, till I do post on them, then they are!" (not exact wording, doing from memory) seemed to back my theory up a bit more.
Your targets also seemed to be really easy targets at the time (noticed how you suddenly started pairing me with One after I started looking scummy). I wasn't originally going to post this since I thought I should try and support my case more but now that I see some more people with the same opinion I think it's probably safe for me to use it. Go ahead and lynch me for this reason if you want but a least I'll know that I did the best I could and that I obviously suck at Mafia.
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I can't stay here any longer, the urge to divine the future is far too strong. But before I go to engage in some divination:
##Unvote
##Vote Just
If any of you want to help me with my divination feel free to visit.
The Fuck is this?
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You can likely ignore that part due to brain scrambling...I think I was starting to bullshit like every time I write a History essay.
One again I wish to note watch for a Princess Miya post,
For the Just Yuan reasoning. She has attacked me multiple times by purely reversing my words, he practicalled looked at me like easy prey, which is likely. He pretty much ignored the discussion and practically focused in on me, there were a few wagons around, yet he continues to only assault mine. I consider that ...well...never really used this word much but..."scummy."!
Reversing your words= Misreping.
So yes, you did accuse me of misrepresentation One. And you're lying. So there we are :3
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Reversing your words= Misreping.
So yes, you did accuse me of misrepresentation One. And you're lying. So there we are :3
oh...learn something new everyday. I'm wrong your right. Can I hit myself now?
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Depore and One:
Start talking about each other and Mala. You two and Mala have wagoned together twice this day 1, and both of you need to state your reads on each other. Town is very divided on which of you two is the better lynch; and it's not clear what you think of each other.
The reason I have such a hard time judging Depore and One is because they are very similar, very suspicious (although derp) players. They both voted Xix at around the same time, took their votes off of Xix around the same time, and now they're both voting for Just together, propelling the Just wagon forward. They both need to tell us what their reads on each other are.
I'm very annoyed that Xix hasn't posted content recently; in his last post he promised content in a few hours. Moonin is taking quite a bit longer than the 5 hours he promised himself, but he's not a priority. And I don't think Mala was paying attention to Just's recent activity at all, or at least she didn't mention what she found scummy about Just's recent posts - It seems like her case on Just was based only on his first two content posts.
I may have trouble being around for deadline. If Mala doesn't become a viable lynch, I'll probably switch to One over Depore in about four hours, but it depends on what the two say about each other. I would not mind a Xix lynch since he hasn't gotten back to us and the little content he has is mediocre. But in light of three of the players I find suspicious jumping onto Just together, I do have some reservations about a Just lynch I did not have before.
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Votecount the Thirteenth
One (3): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan, Miya
Mala (2): One, Orwen, Iffrita, Xix
Depore (2): Moonin, Iffrita
Just (4): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus, Book of the Past, One, Mala, Depore
Xix (2): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One, Mikhail, Book of the Past
Yuan (0): Orwen, Depore, One
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Orwen (0): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Iffrita (0): Miya, Yuan
Moonin (0): Xix, Mala
Not Voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 7 hours until Night 1.
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You can! How am I suposed to stop linking you to Depore when she follows you like that? ლ(?ロ?ლ) You asked One so here is when you left the thread without a vote. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676098.html#msg676098 Your vote was absent for nine hours. Active lurking isn't you being here without posting. It means making posts with no content that relates to the game. I'm not assuming you know how to play well. My assumption is you don't know what to say! Your points on me are misunderstandings of what I'm saying. I don't appreciate the comment about my lack of opinions. Read back through my posts. Tell me if you really think I haven't given a clear opinion right now. I really don't want to vote for you anymore. Stop making it so difficult! (Ｔ▽Ｔ)
I am however not pushing this any further. Despite that I think Miya will turn to me as a second option.
##Vote:Just
My main reason for voting you was because I thought you were only focusing on one person (later on it was two) while at the same time, trying to avoid having to give some more opinions out. A general townie would have more opinions, right? Your comment "I only post on the people I find interesting. If I don't post on them, Then they're uninteresting to me, till I do post on them, then they are!" (not exact wording, doing from memory) seemed to back my theory up a bit more.
Your targets also seemed to be really easy targets at the time (noticed how you suddenly started pairing me with One after I started looking scummy). I wasn't originally going to post this since I thought I should try and support my case more but now that I see some more people with the same opinion I think it's probably safe for me to use it. Go ahead and lynch me for this reason if you want but a least I'll know that I did the best I could and that I obviously suck at Mafia.
Depore isn't reading my posts. Voting me for my lack of opinions without noticing my opinion that you shouldn't be lynched today? What's wrong with you?（?-?*) I'm pairing you with One because you keep following him like this! Take a stand on your own. Vote someone that isn't the easiest wagon at the time!
In regards to Mala. How did you go from this post here http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676729.html#msg676729 to voting for Just? That's not cool. You just slipped onto my wagon like a snake. I can't tolerate someone else emulating my powers. (*?∀?)=3 But really that was horrible. Your vote has been parked until you picked up on the easy wagon rush.
Three of the easy targets have jumped on me. Right now I'm willing to jump right back on any of them.
##Unvote
##Vote: Xix
I want to see another wagon pick up now. I'm willing to abandon One to make this happen but I want to see his vote leave my side. If any of my favored supporters have a better idea I will take it.
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In regards to Just's more recent posts I'll admit that they look solid. However, the stars tell me that Just is likely to be scum, so I'll believe in them for the time being.
I can't stay here any longer, the urge to divine the future is far too strong. But before I go to engage in some divination:
##Unvote
##Vote Just
If any of you want to help me with my divination feel free to visit.
Mala, explain.
I'll be back at deadline; no time for this now.
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@Book of the Past: I have no idea who you want my opinions for. So suggest someone. Also if you have a basic layout of what you want answered then that'll help since I obviously can't make cases very well (it is my first time).
I'm not telling you who to write opinions on. Orwen and Navarus gave you some nice advice; follow it.
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Whoops I edited out my reasons for voting Xix-kun! Let me fix that. To quote myself earlier.
Xix
About Xix-kun flailing like a little girl. Xix-kun's response to being put to L-1 was large and bolded panic. In response to being asked for opinions he throws suspicion on everyone and keeps his vote on Moonin. There's no order of suspicion in his flailing. His return post is more outrage at being wagoned for no reason and attacking his attackers. Without addressing personally the one that looks bad to everyone.
Actually reading Xix-kun's post http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2724 Shows something odd. The three wagon jumpers onto him have done the exact same move onto me just now. :S I changed my mind. I want one of them to go. Sorry Book but that hop was just worse to me. Will you compromise on a Mala or One lynch?
##Unvote
##Vote: Mala
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Short story being I would vote Mala over Xix and save Orwen to tomorrow. I'm annoyed Mala joined the callouts on Xix-kun and myself then disappeared right after my posts appeared. Not interested in my answers? Her suspicions are all the wagons with her vote being on none of them. Lol? （ ?∀｀）
And I was just about to point this out to you. :3
I might go for a Mala lynch. I really don't like this wagon jump. I'll have to get back on this later.
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I don't have time to make a full post responding to everything that has just happened. As for the wagon hopping, I'll admit it looks weird as hell. But is it necessarily scum motivated? Are you going to tell me that all three scum are coordinating their wagon jumps? If anything, it's just an amusing pattern. I'd look more into it if Just flipped town.
That said...my Depore read is going downhill fast. I still WANT to say she's town, but she's ignored me telling her how to make a good post at least twice. She's completely ignored any of the other viable wagons. And just because I'm sure Iffrita will point this out, Depore has done this same exact thing before, on the Xix wagon. The opportunistic voting under the guise of derp feels very very awful. I do not think Depore scum makes Just scum impossible
I will support either lynch at this point. I'll be going out for a while but I should be back three hours before deadline, if I have it right. For now, parking on Just since he's the leading wagon.
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Nav-tan your proposal is absurb. You as much admitted you just don't want to let go of me. If Depore were my ally she would have voted for One instead of pushing me ahead. There's too much agreement with my hanging to be town intended don't you think? ┐(￣ー￣)┌ Perhaps not all three. At least one is likely scum riding the waves.
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You can! How am I suposed to stop linking you to Depore when she follows you like that? ლ(?ロ?ლ) You asked One so here is when you left the thread without a vote. http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676098.html#msg676098 Your vote was absent for nine hours. Active lurking isn't you being here without posting. It means making posts with no content that relates to the game. I'm not assuming you know how to play well. My assumption is you don't know what to say! Your points on me are misunderstandings of what I'm saying. I don't appreciate the comment about my lack of opinions. Read back through my posts. Tell me if you really think I haven't given a clear opinion right now. I really don't want to vote for you anymore. Stop making it so difficult! (Ｔ▽Ｔ)
I want to see another wagon pick up now. I'm willing to abandon One to make this happen but I want to see his vote leave my side. If any of my favored supporters have a better idea I will take it.
Ah, I was talking about after you made that post, I had a vote a bit before you made that post about me leaving without a post, my wrong assumption on that part.
I also thank you for the clarification on the active lurking part.
Huh, mostly misunderstanding eh...
On the note of this, when I had decided to go for broke, you decided your willing to abandon me for another wagon...?
What trickery is this! Stay on Me! Come on! I thought you loved me!
@Just: But messing around aside, I wish to know just why you are so willing to abandon the wagon on me, are you truly so scared by the wagon on you that you wish to push it on someone else? But the idea is, You were so sure I was scum afterall you posted multiple times One-scum and such titles, yet when you skin is in danger you are willing to abandon the wagon on me. I find this really suspicious, are you sure you yourself are not scum?
@Prophet Mala: Why the quick decision? I believe we still had a bit of time left to decide, so why the vote on Just so quickly after I decided to go for broke?
It makes me wonder what your thinking if you thought people will ignore that type of Vote.
@Depore: Demon Navarus has been defending you all game, find something to repay Demon Navarus that will truly help him/her find scum, cause at the rate you are going, well I have no idea, it just won't end well if you don't find a way to repay Demon Navarus for his/her Protection of you.
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Let me check my role pm.
Yes I'm certain I'm not scum myself. ლ(?ロ?ლ)
If you'd been paying attention perhaps you would have noticed I was awaiting your arrival to determine if I thought my tunneling was overbearing. I still believe you suspicious with Depore. You have noticed your fellow wagonees have followed you to my side. Are they not suspicious? Do you truly feel comfortable pushing me with them? Or do you simply not care and wish to start your mafia career by driving this wagon home just as I've taken your claims to be new and not understand how you're interpreting me incorrectly seriously? I don't think you'll vote for either of your block members simply because they've placated you with agreement votes.
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One, she's a new player. Swing voting on to you could have been accidental. After all, it makes sense to bus your buddies if they look like they're getting lynched, which the blitz on you gave the illusion of.
Two, assuming her allies had daytalk, a swing vote could have been encouraged to look better later. This is, admittedly, less likely because losing a scum D1 would be shooting yourself in the foot pretty badly to town cred someone like...well, Depore.
Three, assuming her allies had daytalk, she did that before they could stop her.
There ARE possibilities where Depore can be scum with you. I don't think it's as absurd as you're trying to pain it.
Also, the fact that there's so much agreement on your wagon but it's like pulling teeth to get anyone to vote it is kind of an indicator that you're scum. Sure, you're at four votes now but it took there being 12 hours to deadline for that to be a thing. Yet so many people seem to think you look bad. It's odd
Hrm, while we're on this, if you think there is one scum on your wagon, what do you think is going on with the voting block of randomness?
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It isn't odd for a member of town commonly suspected to get piled on at the end of the day when votes can be excused as the last minute pile-on. Unless odd means a scenario that's been repeated continuously. （ ?ー｀）It is absurb. She was part of the blitz and there was an hour before her vote for me to insist she pick up another wagon.
The likeliest scenarios in my mind are either One-scum deciding to reverse the wagon onto his loudest pursuer while Mala voted me over happenstance or One-derp making what he surely thinks is a brilliant case against my perceived mistakes while Mala leaves her vote safely parked third on the wagon and leaves for greener pastures. In both cases Depore is simply derp leaping onto the wagon for the sake of leaping onto the wagon.
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Hey. I said I would vote for this even though I would prefer a One lynch but yaknow 4 hours or something to deadline.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Just
L-2 consider claiming now Just.
I shall be back in a few hours for more talk~
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So hey, I see that the two leading wagons at this point are my second and third choices. Fun.
I'd be more willing to jump on Just than Mala. I think that Just's sudden willingness to take out Mala and Xix looks odd considering that he has been on One for the majority of the day. It comes off like he doesn't care whether we lynch the player he thinks is scum or not so long as we don't lynch him. This would be more acceptable if we had entered a Not Me Over Me situation, but with the way the votes are spread, it makes little sense for Just not to stick to his guns at this point. I don't think that there is too much agreement on his wagon like he says and it seems like he used that as a blatant attempt to dissuade people from him by appealing to paranoia. I have an easier time seeing Mala as town than Just at this point.
Mala's presence has become really weak as the day has passed by, and this bugs me a little. I would appreciate it if she engaged in discussion more tomorrow. I don't think her end-of-day vote was weird, though. From what I gather, she voted the wagon she liked that had the most support because she wouldn't be here at deadline. This does not seem odd to me. It does bug me that she never had any clear-cut opinions involving which of her targets she wanted lynched the most, but since she's gone we can't actually press her on that right now. Ugh. I think her flexibility looks bad but not bad enough to put her over Just's weird late-day wagon flexibility and overall survivalist play.
Also, Just, why are you defending yourself against support for a Just/Depore pairing? If you're town, you should know that these theories aren't true in the first place and that it would be a waste of time to counter suggested scumpairings during D1 of all things. This bugs me. If Depore was lynched and flipped scum I could see why you would, but that is currently not the case.
I will most likely be around at deadline.
Cut by Miya making any chances of a non-Just wagon completely impossible. Welp.
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Oh for gods sake.
I claim to be confirmable town. I can control a vote at the beginning of every day, effectively making me a double voter that if scum could force a hammer during LYLO. I'd rather not get into the rest of my powers unless you people insist on being more stubborn then you are.
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I haven't seen any controllable votes today.
Also, it's entirely possible for scum to just have a voting ability that gets turned off for LYLO. I think clearing people with voting abilities in a role madness game is a bit premature.
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Also, I want to express annoyance towards Miya for pretty much abruptly cutting off any chance I could have possibly had at getting Depore lynched today (unless people decide to pile off of Just now). Navarus seemed to be considering, so...
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I underestimated my ability to procrastinate. Don't worry though, I was able to use my ungodly procrastination skills to put off sleeping as well. Unfortunately, I'll crash after this and won't be able to make it for deadline.
First, Defense.
I voted Xix because I like competing bandwagons. I wish there were more competing bandwagons. Then we could have had all 7 townies who were here all day discussing more than four scum.
Also, yes, I backtracked on One. I was voting him for something I later considered a null-tell. I was wrong, I realized I was wrong, I took measures to correct myself. Is this scummy?
Second, Clearification~
I missed Depore's second argument. I'm assuming it's post 86. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675897.html#msg675897) Measuring for bad/low content that early in the game is useless, since you could throw it to all but paragons of townies and have it stick very well. The rest of the comment on Xix seems to actually be setting up for backtrack by inserting how somewhat town he might possibly be.
@Mala: When I said you noted casual observations, I was saying that Depore actually seemed to be parroting you. I also disagreed with what I saw in Depore's post with the vote, and when I noticed the similarities in logic, I disapproved your vote just the same as I disapproved Depore's. I picked Depore ahead of Mala because of this parrot. It might also have to do with subconcious reasons, like having looked at Depore first, but I felt She was worse than Mala when I voted.
Someone asked what I would think of Xix if not for the wagon. The answer is nothing. If the wagon never happened, I either would have kept my vote, or lost interest and moved my vote on whatever other basis there would have been at the time. There's no point to the hypothetical of how I feel without the wagon, since without the wagon, there'd be nothing to feel.
Lastly, Suspicions.
I don't see the case on Just at all. The only case I would consider bandwagoning for is Nava-chan's case. And that's a lie, because I would never bandwagon a case that was mostly "My gut is aching so hard" Unless I had a cop result that Nava-chan was town. If people could restate their cases clearly, that would help.
One and Depore are both deflecting a lot. Depore is more obvious, but then again, that's because she's new. I'm starting to dislike One again, since I'm not catching many posts where he's actually being suspicious of people.
Depore Specifically, has made movements that make me certain she's making a few scumslips, but most of it is based on certain people being scum, so I'll wait until we have a few under our belt before going in depth.
I don't like Depore's method of rating people early on. Rating people based on activity and content is too impersonal. It's over analytical to the point where it excludes town effort. It even seems to exclude fake-town effort. It's also got the triple scumvote-bait of being hard to poke holes into, being a place to put and keep a rather easy vote and pushing the largest suspicions onto people who aren't likely to flip, thereby stalling the chance of getting a serious eyeing.
As for Mala, I don't enjoy the fact that She's pushing a half-bad case on me. I am going to let it slide, because while it is half-bad, it's also half-not-bad, and I can't exactly pick out if it's town making an earnest case, or scum pushing as many of my flaws into the light as possible. Aside from the case on me, I don't see anything too bad. I will note that the case on me does fit the last two parts of why I disagreed with Depore's scumhunting method, so it's safe to say that Mala is at least two thirds as bad as Depore is.
Everyone else is either Null or Town, and simultaneously not under fire.
I was sold on the One case Yuan made, and was planning to switch to him in this post, but reading it over again, my strongest feeling is still that Depore is acting in scum self-interest. I'll try to stay up a little more and gauge the reaction to my post, since I could go either way between the two of them.
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It's not turned off for LYLO, that's partly why it's confirmable. There would be a warning a day earlier then there should be. I can't do it until the night phase. Whispers in the dark you know~☆ If you let me live it's not hard to prove, I would say who would be voting who if it couldn't be spoiled by nasty nightkill interuptions.
I don't think it's paranoia when so many wagoners have listed me as a tertiary lynch, Iffri-chan. I can already feel the bricks falling. I changed my mind about Xix-kun. He was suffering from the same situation I find myself in. He was simply fortunate enough to have it happen earlier. Another lynch isn't impossible but it would require someone like say, you, to move or for the other town to pick a wagon that isn't me. Trust Just damnit. ヽ(；▽；)ノ At this point all the wagons are Not Me over Me.
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I dislike Just because his play has felt overly focused on survival. Until he was pressed to post more opinions, he basically got away with tunneling on One while lacking any other solid opinions for the first two-thirds of the day, and the low content + low activity made me feel that he was trying to fly under town's radar. I think the content that was posted when he did return is too little too late, and his recent posts, such as what I pointed out in my #292 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676884.html#msg676884), has only served to increase my belief that his play has been self-centered.
Also, I don't think we should be clearing people for having extra votes. I have seen role madness set-ups with scum voting powers in them before, so it's not completely improbable. I don't like how Just tried to get away with claiming confirmable town on an extra vote alone.
Cut by Just: The only wagon I'd support over you right now is Depore's, but you seem to be completely uninterested in her lynch, so.
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Votecount the Fiftheenth
One (1): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan, Miya
Mala (3): One, Orwen, Iffrita, Xix, Just
Depore (2): Moonin, Iffrita
Just (5): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus, Book of the Past, One, Mala, Depore, Miya
Xix (2): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One, Mikhail, Book of the Past
Yuan (0): Orwen, Depore, One
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Orwen (0): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Iffrita (0): Miya, Yuan
Moonin (0): Xix, Mala
Not Voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 4 hours and 49 minutes until Night 1.
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Wait a minute.
I just realized that what Just is doing with his confirmable overnight vote claim is incredibly similar to The Comedian's fakeclaim from Mafia History.
He's trying to use the promise of becoming self-confirmed to survive the day and last one night phase longer, most likely netting scum a mislynch in the process.
Color me convinced on scum!Just unless somebody can point out a flaw with my theory. I don't want to put him at L-1 when we still have five or so hours left, however.
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A Lot of people focused more on survival than they should have. One, for example, put a lot of effort into waving away the case against himself by admiting most of it was true, and then shrugging it off apologetically. He did this to the point where I don't even recall seeing him make a case on anyone besides Yuan.
I'm starting to really dislike the wagon on Just.
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Incidentally knowing that Miya would turn on me like that unvoting One was not in my best interests if I was just looking for a new place to go. I really do think that Mala's hop was horrible. Yes I'm interested in surviving, I wanted to surprise you all with my confirmability instead of being forced to out myself like this. I have never seen a game with scum voting powers that give them additional votes.
Look, I really hate voting for derp players that are just being derp. I didn't see One as that kind of derp before. If Depore is seriously the only thing that is worse then me then I'll switch, I'm going to be here until the day ends anyways.
The flaw in your theory is that unlike the Comedian I ACTUALLY HAVE THIS POWER. Innocent Child would be a lie and what did I tell you about lying?
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No, seriously, that would be a stupid claim if I were just trying to survive. Why wouldn't I claim to be a cop if I had something I couldn't prove tomorrow? Either situation would be a Day 2 quicklynch with cop being much more precious. Stop being paranoid and realize that there has never been a double voting scum on this forum! Likely because it would be too swingy!
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Fuck it.
Let me re-read Mala again to see if there's any way I could possibly want her lynched over Just.
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Also, is UK still around? I want her opinion on Just's claim.
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Here's an opinion on the claim.
Just is not lying.
Scum being lynched day one will have no qualms about lying at this point to get the wagon off of him.
Also, I might as well stick around until deadline since I got roped into doing more awake stuff randomly.
I would seriously rather get a wagon onto someone who's likely not town soon, but considering there are only three people around, I'm starting to get worried.
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Moonin: Who would you consider to be "likely not town"? The point you rose about Just's claim actually makes a lot of sense, especially considering that the lack of people around meant that scum!Just had a lot of leeway to think up a chaotic fakeclaim unlikely to be countered. So... I guess I'm not sold on scum!Just anymore. Welp.
The problem is that the only person I could imagine lynching at this juncture other than Just or Depore would be Mala, and Mala isn't even around to claim. I don't think we have the manpower to get a Depore lynch at this point, which is pretty terrible considering she's the only player I'd actually feel safe about lynching at this point. @_@ Auuugh.
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The case on me right now is tunneling gut, OMGUS misreps, here's my vote brb later, voting because yay other people agree with me and a lurker that can't get their preferred lynch. IE this wagon is crap and I will be so angry if you lynch Just over this. Look at him! Look at his cute face! How can you lynch that? :< My only regret will be not being able to hug myself.
I really wish I could agree against Depore but I really, really can't get past how DollS-like her play is at this point. I know Book is going to be back. I believe Yuan will be around before deadline. Can we please consolidate on another choice instead of leaving me as the only option like this?
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I really wish I could agree against Depore but I really, really can't get past how DollS-like her play is at this point.
Pretty sure you're talking about the wrong newbie there.
I'm still ISOing Mala and I'm noticing some interesting things. We might be able to compromise on her lynch, but I want Moonin's opinion as well since he's around right now.
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Incidentally I've decided I suck hardcore at this 'try to stay under the radar and not be so pro-town so scum don't kill the good power roles' thing. Never again. It's not like I get nightkilled anyways. ┐( ?∀? )┌ No, Depore looks like DollS to me, if DollS had even less of an idea how to play mafia.
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My list of people who are likely not town mostly consist of people whom One, Depore, and Mala haven't voted for, and have been voted by. Which reminds me that my list seems to not be taking bussing into account, but that's advanced theory crafting best left later days.
I do feel the constraints of the wagons. I admit, of the three, Mala is my weakest scum read. Considering that I doubt all three scum would jump on the same wagon at the same time, even given Depore's disposition, I don't feel a good chance coming from Mala's lynch either.
Remember town, Scum are winning right now because you're not making strong wagons. This is a mess of votes, and you all need to pick up after yourselves.
Cut: As I've said, any of my three reads I'll be willing to switch to.
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Even if Book and Yuan return, that's still only five people, and we'd have barely enough votes to move the wagon to ... Mala. Which brings me up to the same page Iffrita is on.
Oh well, something is better than nothing.
##Unvote: Depore
##Vote: Mala
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I was going to get a drink, but then I realized the reason I'm still up isn't because of the game, but because I'm expecting to drive someone home soon.
This is officially the worst Deadline I've had the displeasure of worrying over.
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New points I realized from my Mala ISO:
- I only just realized this, but half of her alternate suspects were only added to her list because people prodded her for opinions on them. Given that she then went on to place her vote on Just, that seems a lot like she's banking off of the cases of other people. I don't like this.
- I actually take back what I said about Mala's vote on Just being AOK earlier. Look at how non-concrete his initial Just attack is. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676390.html#msg676390). You leave your vote on somebody who is solidly scummy, not somebody who is "strange, probably scummy". Even though she did later make a stronger case on Just, it was waffled back on but left around through gut, as I believe Book of the Past already pointed out.
- So... both Mala's Xix vote and her Just vote were really opportunistic wagon hops. Actually, now that I put more thought into it, Mala is fairly close to being a wordier Depore. Both make weak jumps onto incoming wagons around the same time in their lifespan, and both have thrown out names to possibly jump on later. Given how much scrutiny I have put Depore under this game, I'm fine taking out Mala. She lacks the newbscum intent I can read off of Depore, but her actions still seem worth attacking.
##Unvote
##Vote Prophet Mala
Let's see where this goes.
Cut by Moonin switching to Mala as well. Hopefully this will work out.
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Votecount the 16th
One (1): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan, Miya
Mala (5): One, Orwen, Iffrita, Xix, Just, Moonin, Ifrita
Just (5): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus, Book of the Past, One, Mala, Depore, Miya
Xix (2): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One, Mikhail, Book of the Past
Depore (0): Moonin, Iffrita
Yuan (0): Orwen, Depore, One
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Orwen (0): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Iffrita (0): Miya, Yuan
Moonin (0): Xix, Mala
Not Voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 3 hours and 45 minutes until Night 1.
Mod Note from Bard: the previous votecount contained an error and did not feature Just's vote for Mala. This has been corrected.
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Shouldn't Mala have 5 votes, not 4?
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I count as a person too (Ｔ▽Ｔ)
One please don't be silent after the attention drifted away from you. Now is the time to post! For JUSTice!
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...GDI
Just, here's the problem I have with your role claim. You said that you can confirm you are town through your role. However, In the very first post on the game, Bardiche told us that roles and alignments are not linked. Which means either scum can have a power that will let them use additional votes, OR you are lying about your role.
Which wouldn't actually make sense because roles and alignments aren't linked, and thus you'd have no reason to lie about your role if you were scum.
GDI.
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And then I realized scum would lie about their role if it was to buy themselves a day.
##Unvote
##Vote Just
This doesn't mean I think Mala is town.
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That's hammer. Shut up.
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I can't believe that just happened. Bard is going to murder me :ohdear: I'M SORRY JUST
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The crowd that had gathered fell quiet finally. A few looked curiously from one to the other. They knew that some of them were not out for the best of Chaos, but they couldn't quite decide who.
Finally someone's voice rose out from the crowd.
"Chaos? The Night? Oh, come now! That isn't interesting at all!" The boy grinned brightly at the others.
"What do you mean, Just?" It was a question all thought, but none dared voice but one.
Just simply smiled at everyone, but when he was met with glares instead, shrugged and backed off.
"What I mean is," he began, slowly, "that I don't care for a moment what happens to the lot of you." When everyone was still quiet, Just sighed and shook his head. "Perhaps I should start introductions anew. Hello, I am Ouroboros, Serpent of Knowledge. I don't care about all you people and your problems.
"The only thing I care about is that delicious ecstasy of confusion, despair, anticipation and the world as you know it crashing down onto your pathetic little head." He still smiled brightly. "Now, are we clear? This was interesting. For a while. It no longer is."
Before any could raise a shout, Just swung his arms up. A large axe gleamed brightly in his hands and then... with a large flash, the boy disappeared from sight, leaving nothing behind.
-----
On Day 1, the collective lynched Just, the Bright Youth. Just was actually Ouroboros, Serpent of Knowledge.
The Night Phase has begun. You have 24 hours to send in your actions, after which I will no longer accept any submissions.
As an additional note, after consultation with people, I have come to the conclusion that this game contains too little activity for its amount of players. As such, starting from D2, I will shorten the Day and move the deadline when I determine there is too much lurk going on. Lurking will now actively harm Town.
The alternative is a mass of prods, of which I am not fond. So there you have it.
Again, Night phase has begun. You have 24 hours to send in your actions, after which you will be treated as not having acted at all.
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Please note that Night Phase means SHUT UP unless a role or ability specifically permits otherwise. I will not warn again.
EDIT: There were no errors in counting the votes, so stop asking. Thanks.
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The results of all Night Actions have been sent. If you received no confirmation for success or failure, please PM me.
The Day Phase will resume in 5 hours.
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[20:00] <Inaba_Tewi> if all the actions are in and we're ready then let's open up
[20:01] <Inaba_Tewi> no point waiting when they're raring to go
This makes a surprising amount of sense.
---
As day broke, the people gathered in the main hall of the castle again. After all, there were still enemies to Chaos to be found, as the great prophet had prophesised.
But it was soon enough that they noticed one of their number missing. Everyone hurried to his room, but it was already too late.
Demon Navarus sat slumped in his chair, his face grave, the knife in his chest glimmering brightly.
Demon Navarus, Lord of Demons, has been killed overnight.
The Day Phase has now commenced. You have 72 hours to reach a conclusion. As mentioned before, excessive lurking will result in a reduction of time for the deadline. Time lost cannot be regained. Prods will still be sent out, and modkills when reasonable will still occur.
Not Voting: Everyone!
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have 72 hours until Night 2.
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Since the scum team likely had no way of knowing Just's alignment, I will be treating the Just wagon in the same way I would normally treat an ordinary townie wagon.
Orwen I can't particularly fault. I'm under the impression that whatever was going on with the Just wagon that caused a premature hammer, he was entirely unaware of it. I don't think his statements about the claim were entirely unjustified since I had a similar thought process, so I believe he looks the best out of the later hops on Just's wagon and I would not be interested in pursuing him today. Navarus is another Just voter who I do not feel is worth lynching today, as I find that his overall D1 conduct does not match how scum would be expected to play.
Miya's late-day actions are downright outrageous. Assuming that there was scum among the players with wagons only maintaining two votes, I can see major scum motivation in her turning Just into the de facto lynch and outing his claim while other lynches were still being considered. She essentially had the biggest hand in the end-of-day clusterfuck we experienced and her Just vote was possibly the most anti-town move that has been pulled so far. It essentially forced a dichotomy consisting of Just and whoever town could muster up the voting strength to create a wagon out of, which is horrible.
The trio of One / Mala / Depore is difficult to analyze because all three of them jumped on two notable wagons around the same time. A situation where all three scum jump on one wagon at once in a short time frame would imply major scum incompetence, which I would prefer not to assume. Out of the three of them, I believe that One looks the towniest, so I will choose not to aggress him for now. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676533.html#msg676533) provides an explanation for my distaste of the case on One's actions pending his Just vote, and I actually feel capable of observing town intent in One's vote on Just. The way he pressed her for a response reads like townie conviction to my eyes, and he actually made a fairly strong point against Just here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676871.html#msg676871). Out of the three players who rode both the Xix wagon and the Just lynch, I feel that One actually had the most believable case on Just, as well as the fairest intent.
Judging Mala and Depore side by side is amusing because of how conveniently similar their voting patterns are. However, I think I'm going to have to stick with my guns and continue to attack Depore, for her voting pattern seems to capitalize on the actions and votes of other players significantly more than Mala's does. My past analysis of Depore's vote on Xix can be observed here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676250.html#msg676250), but now that we have a full day's worth of content to look back on, I would like to add that Depore's attacks on other players often seem to take advantage of the circumstances. Not only did her Xix vote pop up as soon as the town's attention shifted to a potential Xix wagon according to comments from me, Navarus and Mala, but her vote on Just popped up right after One and Mala had tied up the Just wagon with the One wagon, at a time where the Just wagon had more support thanks to my lingering suspicion of him. Not only is this opportunistic as hell, but it gets especially interesting when one realizes that that Depore didn't even dedicate so much as a line of her post to the One wagon, despite previously leaning scummy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675911.html#msg675911) on One earlier in the day (at a time where overall townie suspicion was suddenly starting to lean towards One, too! I'm not going to place this in the "One pushing Xix to L-1 was weird and you can't blame anybody for suspecting him" category because Depore's opinion had nothing to do with that). The disconnection in opinions here furthers my belief that Depore is scum flowing with the winds of change in the town's overall collective opinion, and is more than enough to push her to the top of my suspect list once more.
##Vote Depore
As for Mala, the amount of new charges I have against her is fairly insignificant, but I would like to defer everyone to the post I made at the end of Day 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676932.html#msg676932), since I believe those points still hold water following Just's flip (if not more). Considering the way she utilized the death of the Xix wagon to spread out her options and slowly gain a wider array of choices to jump to for deadline, I can see scum intent in the way she conveniently managed to push the flipped non-scum wagon without having to put any effort into actually keeping up an offense against Just throughout the day. I would be accepting of a Mala lynch, but would not actually prefer it over Depore, whose scummy intentions come off as both more plentiful and more transparent.
In closing, I continue to support a Depore lynch the most, but could see myself agreeing to the death of one of Miya or Mala if I can't obtain my preferred outcome for the day. It should also be noted that I would most likely lynch Miya over Mala if it came down to those two choices.
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So let me get this striaght Empress... you think Depore!scum was responsible for the Demon kill?
Demon being the person who White Knighted and swore up and down to her grave that Depore was town?
:S
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Navarus was probably one of the best kills regardless of whether she was clearing scum or not. This game is lurky as hell, and not only was Navarus the biggest talker, but nobody really suspected her to be scum, either. Killing off the active players in a game with several lurkers is a good way for scum to stifle activity.
Also, note that Navarus showed signs of irritation towards Depore at the end of the day, so it was possible she was going to turn her reads around anyway. I can see why you would maybe doubt my case based on the kill, but I don't think that offing Navarus would be as much of a loss for scum!Depore as you seem to claim.
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Well, considering that without Demon's protection Depore could have been in a lot more trouble yesterday than what occured... I don't think that scum Depore would kill her.
I mean, you don't kill someone for being WRONG about their reads. Generally, UK must have been right about SOMETHING for her to get killed. I'm going to look through her top scum reads again, and see which is the most likely candidate. It's a good place to start.
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Morning everyone! Sorry about ending yesterday early.
I went back and checked Mala's posts from prior to her vote on Just. Her initial case was based on Just's early content. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676710.html#msg676710) As far as I can tell from her following post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676720.html#msg676720), it seems like after recognizing this, her Just read becomes almost entirely based on gut at the time of her vote. She has said she thinks Xix is town now, but her reads on One and Depore were both lacking as well. She has brought up One a lot but has never stated a read on him, and this was her only case on Depore:
Depore? I would prefer other lynches at this point.
I do however also find her #115 disconcerting. After stating that she finds Moonin to be scummy for unknown reasons she calls his "content" post as really townie. The "content" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) that I'd still like some questions answered (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676029.html#msg676029) (It should actually read @Xix #73.) about. It seems like Depore simply got scared off by the size of the post instead of really looking at the content. (of which half comes from a liberal use of the enter key and large size font while announcing how many times he had been cut.)
Actually Depore is just as bad as Xix, Moonin and Just.
I would like Mala's current reads on One and Depore, since the three are so connected. I still find Mala scummy.
##Vote Mala
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There aren't that many corpses here... I wonder where the people are hiding.
One: Ehhhhh, his early game just says obviously new!derp, and I can look at that as derptown, since he has right intentions despite having no idea what he's doing. Although that might just be bias on my side from knowing who is on the other side of his coin. He's looking slightly townie on my side since he's putting effort towards the later parts, but I want results from him or the read can flip fast.
Depore: Ughhh. She's the exact OPPOSITE of One. She started off like knowing how to play the game, then fell off into derp derp derp. There's such a big difference between her early game and her current game that it's just very unnatural. Otherwise, still waiting on those opinions. And I don't like how she's declaring that she's a newbie over and over again. Looks like she's trying to appease to get people off her. Leaning towards scum.
Mala: Nothing's changed.
##Vote Mala
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
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Well, considering that without Demon's protection Depore could have been in a lot more trouble yesterday than what occured... I don't think that scum Depore would kill her.
I mean, you don't kill someone for being WRONG about their reads. Generally, UK must have been right about SOMETHING for her to get killed. I'm going to look through her top scum reads again, and see which is the most likely candidate. It's a good place to start.
On the note of that, the main reason Demon Navarus voted Just over me was "Gut feelings", other then that, it would seem I was the 2nd scum read, since he was bought by your claim.
@Yuan: I wish to know what your opinion of me is now that Just is a proven 3rd party.
@On the note of Xix. His last post
I must admit that I'm embarrassed that I forgot about One. Unfortunately, I'm taking a trip to Thanatos for a while, so I'll post back in a few hours when I arrive.
From July 13, 2011, 07:53:48 pm
To July 14, 2011, 02:13:57 pm
That is way past a few hour difference, I wish to ask why he did not make a post between these times. I find it suspicious that he claimed to post within a few hours, and had over a few hours, and did not act on what he has said.
On this note again, I hope you did not forget me for the fact that I am new, because while it helps me, its really a insult.
@If Depore was scum, she would keep Demon Navarus alive, due to the fact that Demon Navarus has continuously defended her. Even when there was a possible wagon on Depore, Demon Navarus still defended Depore.
@Empress Iffrita : On the note of "Trio", I think its strange that of the trio, you decide Depore is better now, is the main reason you decide you want to lynch Depore now, due to the fact that Demon Navarus is dead? You claim Depore and Prophet Mala have similiar styles, yet when Demon Navarus was alive you chose Prophet Mala over Depore.
I find it strange that this night kill might have been made for sake of either betting on Yuan getting me lynched, or getting Depore lynched due to the fact that with Demon Navarus gone, Depore only has herself to rely on, and from what people have seen, she is not doing a great job.
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One: The only reason I switched to Mala at the end of D1 was because there was no way the Depore lynch was happening. If you pay attention to my posts, you'll realize that Depore was my primary suspect for the latter half of D1.
I wrote up my case on Depore overnight, before I learned of Navarus' death. Navarus' death has no effect on my case.
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@One: My opinion of you doesn't change based on a third party lynch. As town, you should treat a third party lynch as a town lynch when trying to make connections to scum. The scum had no idea Just was a third party scum. They probably thought he was town.
My read on you changes in no way as a result of the Just lynch.
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Mala: Nothing's changed.
##Vote Mala
Would you mind expanding on that Xix?
If you mean that your previous arguments still stand I understand, but I would like to know your read on her more recent posts, like her 262 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676710.html#msg676710) in which she makes her arguments against Moonin and Just, up through her vote on Just in 273 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676790.html#msg676790). Even if your case remains the same, could you explain how her recent actions further the case you made here? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676470.html#msg676470) Not having anything to add to your Mala case in light of her recent posts makes you somewhat suspicious.
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I was going to have fun divining all night last night my time was cut short. My apologies if I sound irritated but when something as important as divining gets taken away from you...
For those of you asking about my abrupt switch to Just before I left to perform some divinations for the night: Was it really so abrupt? I had stated in my previous post that if I could not get a wagon on Moonin going that I would switch to Just before leaving as I could not be around for the deadline.
I can't help but read One as derptown and I doubt this will change any time soon.
Regarding Depore: I don't believe that my point in #169 was ever addressed so I'll reiterate them here. Your switch from Moonin to not Moonin was absolutely terrible. You claim that after Moonin posted some "content" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) he looked a lot more townie. All I can say about that is what content? How did that post make him any more townie? And your #115. I don't get it. Why do you mention Book of the Past out of the blue and state how townie it looks? Throughout the entire game you have been placing your suspicions of whichever person and simply didn't mention anyone else. Except for the Book of the Past. Why do you feel the need to state how much you love that Book of the Past? Why don't you love me instead? And when stating your love for that Book of the Past you didn't even really explain it. You simply stated its behavior as "good" and left it at that. The exact same thing also happened in your quick opinion post (#86). After your opinion post in #115 where you added in the Book of the Past being super townie for whatever reason you dropped all of your cases to vote for Yuan stating that it is likely for there to be more than two scum. When called out about this you simply unvoted and didn't go back to any of your cases. Instead you simply spent the rest of the day saying nothing before jumping onto the Just bandwagon. I find that this is really weird.
As for Moonin: I would like to believe that my case from #262 still stands. He addressed these points in #296 with "it is half-bad, it's also not half-bad". May I kindly inquire so as to what you found bad about my case?
I am now going to go perform the divination that I missed last night. If any of you feel like assisting me with my divination, just come visit.
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Votecount the 17th - First For Day 2
Depore (1): Iffrita
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix
Not Voting: Everyone else
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 65 hours until Night 2.
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All my time not voting yesterday was spent trying and failing at making cases. I only jumped on the Just wagon for the reason I had because I saw it getting tossed around more and I thought it safer than doing it earlier for the same reason.
@Iffrita: I was trying to make a case on One but I couldn't really do it well. But I must admit he is starting to look better to me. Probably derptown now.
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Mala - Your switch to Just didn't have any backing behind it. While you did say you would switch to Just, your case on Just was that he went with an easy case against One and didn't show any effort, both of which Just resolved with his more recent posts. When this was pointed out to you, you responded to it with:
In regards to Just's more recent posts I'll admit that they look solid. However, the stars tell me that Just is likely to be scum, so I'll believe in them for the time being.
You didn't show us the scum intent in Just's recent posts; heck you even recognized them as good. Instead, you changed your read to a gut read and voted him anyway. I find that scummy.
All my time not voting yesterday was spent trying and failing at making cases. I only jumped on the Just wagon for the reason I had because I saw it getting tossed around more and I thought it safer than doing it earlier for the same reason.
@Iffrita: I was trying to make a case on One but I couldn't really do it well. But I must admit he is starting to look better to me. Probably derptown now.
Depore: Please answer Mala's questions.
Also, please make cases. When telling us your scum reads, tell us which player you found suspicious, show us what they did that was suspicious (preferably, which post they did it in as well), and then tell us exactly how what the player did was scum motivated. Find actions that you find weird or strange, and press the other players on those actions. I think you are new to this game, and I'm having a hard time telling if you are inexperienced town or inexperienced scum. You're recent posts have had little content and your votes haven't had the backing they need. Currently, I find you very suspicious.
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Will post tomorrow, spent a few hours reading the thread, but my priorites are Mala, Depore, Xix, and Orwen.
Depore is quickly becoming my first choice.
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Firstly mommy dearest, 5 hours to deadline and I'm the only one who makes a wagon in the first place, on Just with a swing vote, making his wagon a possiblity. So, I did better by making a wagon in the first place otherwise it would have just shortened the time to the end of the day and upped the scramble everyone had by delaying it, possibly even making a choas no lynch. I obviously wasn't getting a One lynch. You cannot be as black and white as you're trying to imply about me wanting to lynch a scum, (3rd party is scum btw) for being scummy. So no, my vote was not as bad as if Just flipped town since he was scum.
What is downright outrageous, (or isn't) is that I have reason to believe you are scum!
Full claim now, Empress Iffrita.
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No change from the votecount that is 5 posts above this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677747.html#msg677747).
You have about 60 hours left in the Day.
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Who cares if you lynched a third party? The scum team didn't know she was a third party. From the scum's PoV, she might as well have been a townie. Stop trying to earn undeserved cred.
Anyway, I am a Faithful Empress, which is kind of like an oddball jack of all trades. I have a one-shot neighborizer (gain outside communication with the target for the following day phase), a one-shot... hider thing? not sure what to call it (I target a player, if they're town I become bulletproof, if they're scum then it does nothing), and a one-shot jailer (roleblock + protect). I attempted to neighborize Moonin last night, as he seemed fairly townie and I felt communication with him could potentially be helpful in pushing for a Depore lynch today. However, I was redirected to UK, and I am quite sure you can figure out how that turned out. Ugh.
Given that a UK/Moonin bus makes little sense as far as I am concerned, it seems likely to me that I was targeted by some sort of hijacker. I'm puzzled as to why the hell scum would think I was a PR worth redirecting, though, since I made no breadcrumbs after I figured my role could just be confirmed through the neighborizer. If this was the fault of a townie action, it would be appreciated if somebody could actually speak up about why they did it now that I've tipped my hand.
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You didn't show us the scum intent in Just's recent posts; heck you even recognized them as good. Instead, you changed your read to a gut read and voted him anyway. I find that scummy.
I can't say anything about that other than that my divination told me that Just was likely to be plotting against us and I decided to trust in the stars.
Depore continuing to say very little annoys me. Her complete drop of all three of her cases in order to go for the Yuan case annoys me ("How do you know there are more than 2 scum?"). Randomly pronouncing the Book of the Past as townie twice in a situation where nobody has any real suspicions about the Book of the Past annoys me.
So Depore. You've stated that one of your big targets (One) is now looking derptown to you. You say in your latest post that you jumped onto the Just wagon simply because the wagon was there. You have not mentioned Xix or myself since #115 which was an expansion on your thoughts in #86. Opinions. You had best start forming some.
And come over to my place in an hour so we can divine the future together. It won't hurt, I promise.
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One thing that I find very strange about Empress Iffrita. Empress Iffrita has been stating her suspicion of Princess Miya for a while now. Yet when Princess Miya said that she knew something about Empress Iffrita that would out her as scum Empress Iffrita responded immediately with a roleclaim. To me it looks like Empress Iffrita was a little too willing to divulge her role and I wonder if that is because it's a scum fakeclaim.
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I don't know what kind of information she has, but at this point I don't think scum would make a roleclaim at the start of D2 just to cast doubt on me. I really don't see what was wrong with responding to her request to fullclaim.
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Mala, your on Depore is really confusing me, because you're mixing up me and Moonin somehow.
Not to mention that even if it weren't mixed up, I don't really see a case on Depore at all. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676400.html#msg676400"case"[/url)
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Dammit, I'm really off this game aren't I. Exact same post, fixed.
Mala, your "case" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676400.html#msg676400) on Depore is really confusing me, because you're mixing up me and Moonin somehow.
Not to mention that even if it weren't mixed up, I don't really see a case on Depore at all.
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You have stated that you could see Princess Miya as having "major scum motivation in her turning Just into the de facto lynch" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677519.html#msg677519). That "It should also be noted that I would most likely lynch Miya over Mala if it came down to those two choices." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677519.html#msg677519). That "Also, I want to express annoyance towards Miya for pretty much abruptly cutting off any chance I could have possibly had at getting Depore lynched today" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676893.html#msg676893). That "It bugs me that Miya is giving Depore a pass for having conviction when aggressive newbscum are obviously going to have conviction, otherwise they wouldn't be aggressive. ... That, and I disagree her conviction is truly there in all situations." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676626.html#msg676626). That "I want to hear from Miya too, actually. I took a second look at her post and noticed that the way she attacked One and Moonin looked an awful lot like she was setting up some later jumps onto easy targets." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676433.html#msg676433).
In other words you've been thinking that Miya was scum all throughout the game yet you immediately respond to her accusation that she had evidence of you being scum with a fullclaim. Even though most people were passing you off as townie.
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...
Let's be honest here. Do you think scum is going to claim that they have potentially lethal information on somebody at the start of day 2? It would most likely just turn major suspicion towards the theoretical scum Miya after my lynch, and Miya was not exactly a major focus of townie suspicion at the start of this day either.
I don't know what kind of information she has, but I can't see why scum would bother claiming at this juncture, so I'm giving her a pass for now.
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The "@Xix #73" thing was a fix that was for my #114 as I wrote "@Xix #79" in #114.
How did that mixup even happen? Performing as many divinations as I do can result in an unclear mind at times. I will retract that point. However I believe that my other points in #344 still stand. And that invitation to divine the future with me is open to anyone. Just call me.
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@Empress Iffrita: And where did Princess Miya claim exactly? She has only stated that she found some information that could out you and that you should fullclaim. When you say that you are "giving her a pass for now" do you mean to say that you are dropping your previous accusations against Princess Miya?
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I still begrudge her actions, but I don't think she's worth pursuing at this point due to the nature of her call-out.
If she was scum attempting an early D2 rolefish on me, she'd most likely get caught on it pretty quickly when it turned out she didn't have any interesting information to reveal.
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Votecount the 18th
Depore (1): Iffrita
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix
Not Voting: Everyone else
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 58 hours until Night 2.
Depore has requested a replacement. If I find no replacement before the end of the Day, Depore shall be modkilled.
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What... But... GAH WHY CAN'T WE EVER HAVE A FULL GAME?!
Anyways, Mala's case on Just is seems to be a pretty rehash on what most of the cases on him have said, and even then doesn't explain why he's scummy. As fall as I can tell, the case is that he was tunneling straight at One, even though he was talking about others[/url, which even she admits. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676544.html#msg676544)
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As for another person, I find
the incestuous Mikhail as a suspicious persons.
His voting post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676551.html#msg676551) on me didn't update any case on me, he just went on to tell people to pile on my wagon. Even then, he didn't bother to explain any of his reads other than his town reads.
(Oh hey I finally did the linking part right)
And if what I suspect is true, then Miya's asking for a claim and Iffrita's claim are believable to me. This doesn't indicate anything for alignment, as roles are not related to alignment at all.
And finally, I'll be pretty busy tomorrow since I found a trail on Nex's whereabouts, so I'm going to go KILL that bastard!
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Also, Maya I'll concede that I agree with your 344 post, and I'll admit that i completely missed it when I posted 347.
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This game gives me a headache. I think I'm getting Bard syndrome already; it's all the mod's fault. People lurking out and posting only a few times a day is making rereads really annoying.
Depore is my top pick for scum. Looking back at her repeated promises to produce a case, instead of producing something that she hinted she was working on she just jumps on the popular wagon (Just) with reasons other people had already produced. I don't feel like elaborating right now, but I would later if asked. As for night kill choice (responding to Yuan here), Navarus was suspicious enough of Depore at the end of the day to want to (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676861.html#msg676861) vote for her (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676876.html#msg676876). I would vote for Depore right now, but she's getting herself replaced or modkilled so ಠ_ಠ.
Reading over Mala again, I understand the Just vote somewhat as a last ditch switch from Moonin, but I dislike it because it seems to be "gut" dressed up in flavor. I see that you still suspect Moonin for reasons stated yesterday. But oh, where's your vote? Would you vote for Moonin, Depore or even Iffrita? Holding back your vote looks scummy. I'd also like for you to update your Moonin case here in light of end of day actions. You're currently my top suspect other than Depore.
##Vote:Mala
Xix, do you suspect anyone out of those three people (and Mikhail)? I'd like for you to not just disappear for half the day again.
Miya popping in just to give a half-assed defence of herself and ask for a claim isn't making me think well of her. Miya, explain your town reads on Xix and Depore and post an updated case.
One, who do you think is scum? I can't see a clear suspicion in your latest post.
Iffrita, is there anyone off the wagon that you would consider lynching?
Remember town, Scum are winning right now because you're not making strong wagons. This is a mess of votes, and you all need to pick up after yourselves.
Moonin, what would you prescribe as medicine for this affliction? Surely more active posting on your side would be helpful, would it not?
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I really don't see what was wrong with responding to her request to fullclaim.
I don't like the way you fullclaimed because Miya is hardly the epitome of towniness, and you bashed her in the same post that you spilled your role. It's not like Miya gave justification for asking for a full claim.
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tl;dr I'd vig half the players in the game BECAUSE I CAN'T GET A READ ON NON-POSTERS.
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Will post tomorrow, spent a few hours reading the thread, but my priorites are Mala, Depore, Xix, and Orwen.
Depore is quickly becoming my first choice.
If you don't post tomorrow I will shank you.
Yuan, you're still pursuing One today? Could you post an updated case with a vote?
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Firstly mommy dearest, 5 hours to deadline and I'm the only one who makes a wagon in the first place, on Just with a swing vote, making his wagon a possiblity. So, I did better by making a wagon in the first place otherwise it would have just shortened the time to the end of the day and upped the scramble everyone had by delaying it, possibly even making a choas no lynch. I obviously wasn't getting a One lynch. You cannot be as black and white as you're trying to imply about me wanting to lynch a scum, (3rd party is scum btw) for being scummy. So no, my vote was not as bad as if Just flipped town since he was scum.
What is downright outrageous, (or isn't) is that I have reason to believe you are scum!
Full claim now, Empress Iffrita.
I wish to know if you are going to continue your pursue for my lynch, or are you going to purse Mala's lynch which as of the moment is at 3 votes, including your vote.
You say that 3rd Party is (scummy) yet considering what I've been told, 3rd parties are not known by scum, therefore to be treated like a townie lynch. Yet your talking about the opposite.
Its nice to know that you claim to have found scum, yet There Was Post about it, if you were town you should have laid down a vote as well immediately stating the reason why you found her as scum. I find the fact you asked for a fullclaim instead of just laying down your reasons highly suspicious.
##Vote Miya
Unless you state the reasons for your asking Empress Iffrita for fullclaim + the reasons you find your scummy, I won't be changing my vote.
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err "There was NO reason in it", sorry about the typo.
Also Miya, if you were so certain that Empress Iffrita was scum, Where Was The Vote?
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Can you people not see that I'm busy with my divination? Do you not understand how rude it is for you to be disturbing me?
I currently dislike Depore, Moonin and Empress Iffrita. I believe #344 sums up my thoughts on why Depore is trying to kill us all.
My dislike of Empress Iffrita stems from her willingness to claim after Princess Miya claims that she has information on her despite the fact that Empress Iffrita believes Princess Miya to be scummy. In addition I dislike her claim.
As for Moonin: I'm waiting for him to answer what he thought was "half bad" and "half not bad' about my #262. That statement was a complete fencesit and I dislike him for making it. His #296 has some content. Or does it? Ignoring his defense and clarification sections. Moonin tells us in the suspicions section that... What does he tell us? He disliked One before finding that his read on One was null before deciding that he's STARTING to dislike One again. Depore has been making scumslips but only if certain other people are scum. He doesn't even tell us WHICH people need to be scum for Depore's scumslips to be actual scumslips. As for me, I am making a half bad and half not bad case on him according to Moonin. Never mind telling the town what part is bad and what part is not. Moonin is sitting on the fence for all three of his suspicions. Since then Moonin has not said much.
##Vote Moonin
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Let's be honest here. Do you think scum is going to claim that they have potentially lethal information on somebody at the start of day 2?
but I can't see why scum would bother claiming at this juncture, so I'm giving her a pass for now.
Do you like placing all this wine in front of me? Wine sure is helpful with my divination.
Miya was not exactly a major focus of townie suspicion at the start of this day either.
The important part is that YOU were suspicious of Princess Miya.
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##Unvote
Mala makes a lot of sense. I need to look over something. You're all scum.
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One, what do you think of Yuan? You seemed to suspect her before; are you dropping her?
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One, what do you think of Yuan? You seemed to suspect her before; are you dropping her?
Its due to the fact that I don't have much to really suspect her of at the moment, the only case at the time that I could claim was her attacking me, at the moment, I'd say shes a town.
Though I have to ask,
@Yuan: Why did you not place your vote back on me?, You were pretty sold on the case that I was scum. You also said that your case never changed, did you forget to vote? or did you have a reason to not vote me.
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Alright. Depore is pretty much the only concrete scum read I have right now. I'd vote her, but again, she's getting replaced/modkilled.
One makes a good point on Miya though. Iffrita was one of Miya's top scum reads through Day 1. If Miya apparently had reason to think Iffrita was scum today, why not add a vote to go along with his suspicions? I also don't like the clears on Xix and Depore and want him to explain them.
##Vote: Princess Miya
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EBWOP: Reason enough to ask for a fullclaim, at least. Which means it must have been a pretty damn good reason.
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One makes a good point on Miya though. Iffrita was one of Miya's top scum reads through Day 1. If Miya apparently had reason to think Iffrita was scum today, why not add a vote to go along with his suspicions? I also don't like the clears on Xix and Depore and want him to explain them.
For Depore at the moment, the past information will become irrelevant once she is modkilled or replaced, therefore I decide to not saying anything about her until she is replaced, and even then I can only use the information the new Depore posts up.
For Xix: Opinion of him is kinda blank, I really don't know what to think about him actually. I'm finding it hard to read his intent, because from what it seems, he does not have a target now other then Depore, and even then thats only "Leaning towards scum".
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Uh, that was aimed at Miya actually, but it's okay if you answer too.
@One
Give an opinion on Depore anyway. If Depore is replaced, his past actions will still be relevant.
Also, it looks like you haven't actually read Xix. Read over him again and you'll quickly see what's wrong with your statement on him.
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Uh, that was aimed at Miya actually, but it's okay if you answer too.
@One
Give an opinion on Depore anyway. If Depore is replaced, his past actions will still be relevant.
Also, it looks like you haven't actually read Xix. Read over him again and you'll quickly see what's wrong with your statement on him.
Hm, well for Depore she really has not given town or scum much information, she mostly just attempted to follow up on the largest wagon, she did not even claim about scum read throughout the game. Plus her post of
All my time not voting yesterday was spent trying and failing at making cases. I only jumped on the Just wagon for the reason I had because I saw it getting tossed around more and I thought it safer than doing it earlier for the same reason.
Safer does not mean its safe, jumping on the wagon for this reason really doesn't make her look good. It makes her look worse due to the fact that her jump on the wagon can be called opportunistic.
Since she probably is not going to be coming back, I can't ask the New Depore what I want answered by the Old Depore.
I also believe in the fact that she overabused her "Newbie Status".
@Xix: eh...Well if we go back into the Past, oh wait I just noticed how even when Xix
Also, Maya I'll concede that I agree with your 344 post, and I'll admit that i completely missed it when I posted 347.
This should have led to Depore being a higher scum status for him, yet he does not unvote Mala and go for Depore, I want to question why he did not. Regarding his thoughts through out day one, he did not have a serious opinion of me. I wish to determine why.
Though at the moment I am probably not seeing what your seeing Book of the Past, I will likely need more posts before I can decide about Xix.
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You've stepped up your play today significantly One, it's frightful. Is someone coaching you? :V
Jokes aside, I see what you mean about Xix now, although I interpret his actions differently.
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Votecount the 19th
Depore (1): Iffrita
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (2): One, Book of the Past
Moonin (1): Mala
Not Voting: Everyone else
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 5452 hours until Night 2.
The deadline was shortened by 2 hours.
Effective immediately, Depore has been replaced. You may address concerns regarding this to me directly or in-thread, whichever is more convenient for you.
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Oh, that was quick. I'll have to wait for the new Depore to make an opening post before I can see if I'll switch back to him.
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Its due to the fact that I don't have much to really suspect her of at the moment, the only case at the time that I could claim was her attacking me, at the moment, I'd say shes a town.
Though I have to ask,
@Yuan: Why did you not place your vote back on me?, You were pretty sold on the case that I was scum. You also said that your case never changed, did you forget to vote? or did you have a reason to not vote me.
I thought I voted you in my first post today...
Apparently not.
Doesn't even matter anymore though One. I still think you look bad, but Empress' LOLJOAT claim needs attention.
Unvote; Vote: Empress
So let's see here. In a 13 player game, you have a 1 shot neighborizer, a 1 shot BP and a 1 shot jailer?
Let's analyze this:
First off, the 1 shot BP is ALSO a weak cop. Not even a WEAK Cop. It functions as a cop with BENEFITS. I find it hard to believe.
Secondly, the neighborizer claim is terribad. The fact that it WOULD be provable... but you conveniently got redirected to UK. So now it's no longer provable? ALSO, why would you use that power before your cop/bp combo?
Further, I have role related reasons to know that the one-shot Jailor claim is almost certainly false .
So yeah, claim is terribad.
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Are you positive on the Jailor claim being false, Yuan?
You do make some good points on the claim, as I hadn't really been taking the implications into consideration. Iffrita has looked fine to me so far (though this may be because our reads coincide), but I suppose I'll give her a reread.
Miya still needs to explain herself though.
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Are you positive on the Jailor claim being false, Yuan?
You do make some good points on the claim, as I hadn't really been taking the implications into consideration. Iffrita has looked fine to me so far (though this may be because our reads coincide), but I suppose I'll give her a reread.
Miya still needs to explain herself though.
I can never be 100% positive, because that would require me outguessing the mod.
I don't want to elucidate, because it's role related, but I will if required/pushed.
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And yes, Miya if you would elucidate on your end this could be a lot easier to understand.
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I can never be 100% positive, because that would require me outguessing the mod.
I don't want to elucidate, because it's role related, but I will if required/pushed.
Alright, I see.
I actually have a hunch about Miya, but I'll let her talk first.
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I've finished a few ISO rereads, and for one reason or another it's hard to establish concrete reads for my scum choices.
Anyway,
Depore:
Her most noticible and scummy problem is that while she bases her town and scum reads off of people based on their content posts and reasoning, she rarely (and really never) goes beyond that. That is, she really doesn't let us know why and what parts of people's posts she finds scummy. The best she could do was a weak Xix case relying Xix's Moonin vote and a Just case that while true, was established opinion. Secondly, her voting power was largely wasted yesterday and that obfuscates town objectively passing judgement. It's scummy. Irregardless, she would be my #2-#3 choice of scum.
Xix:
nothing has changed
I had him pinged scum more from gut, because of a precieved lack of scum hunting, and insufficeint effort exhibited when asked to do so. Those feelings have not gone away, however, and I don't find Xix's convictions against Mala that convincing. My read on Xix is more shaky now, partly because his posts are hard to read. I would ask him to please clearly explain why he thinks Mala is scum. #2-#3 choice of scum
Mala:
Like a fish, her read is slippery. Like Depore, her voting history leaves much to be desired, and is one of the reasons I have a hard time reading her. Also, her thoughts flow into one another too much, which make her posts hard to read. I find that her explainations of her actions ring true however (those that explain her internal monologues). I haven't invested the energy required to make a stronger read of her, but I'd put her at #4 scum. Also she is slightly audacious in "divining" every second.
Orwen:
I can read your posts clearly! But I sense a huge disconnect between your vote of Mala, and hammering Just. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676843.html#msg676843) specifically. You had qualms about a Just lynch before (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676567.html#msg676567) as well. Of all the reasons to switch votes, you used WIFOM on a claim. "Scum can lie about claims! to let them live an extra day!" It's funny. Did you ever ask Mala to claim? I think not. Futhermore you have been waffling on a few town's preferred D1 lynches. I.e, on One, Depore, and Xix. Your reads on them were always fluid enough that I am sure you would have no trouble changing to vote one of them seeing as how fast you voted Just even though he was less of a priority then any of them. I have trouble understanding how you think Mala is bad for making a case on Just (even if it is not 100% original) when your own reason for voting Just was much weaker. You always thought Mala was bad from the get-go, increasing my suspciousions that you are disconnected when it comes to presenting a case for scum!Mala. You are my #1 Scum read. ##Vote: Sage Orwen
Anyway about Miya/Iffrita. It would be so nice to have UK here to clarify things, wouldn't it? Man, that would be nice. O WAIT! I think I can do it! My role shall be fulfilled, I can revive only once, and my target will die once more at the beginning of the next day. Now shall I be silent, with only one other grace, if you have more questions of me I will be certain to be around the next day.
Demon from the underground,
Town has need for you to be around,
To tell them who has sinned,
To tell them who is lying,
To tell them who is spying,
To tell them who is dying.
##Evocate Demon Navarus
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Votecount the 20th
Depore (1): Iffrita
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (2): One, Book of the Past
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (1): Yuan
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Everyone else!
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 49 hours until Night 2.
Demon Navarus has returned to the game.
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...
So wait. This will confirm Empress' claim! IF UK truly was neighborized last night by Empress she will have access to that QT now.
If UK doesn't have access to that QT, Empress is conf. scum.
If Uk DOES have access, than Empress' claim is real (but confirmed role=/= confirmed alignment so Empress can still be scum)
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@Bardiche: You missed Mikhail's vote on Sage Orwen.
@Yuan: Agreed.
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@One: Corrected.
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NeoDepore, checking in. I'll need a chance to properly catch up on the game, but with less than 400 posts that shouldn't be too tall a task :)
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@UK: Have you been neighborized? Your first post back should answer this question. It is the most important one.
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Fortunately for y'all I've been kind of following the game. Iffirita is right that the Just wagon counts as town for the sake of voting analysis. People arguing that look interestin'
Now then, I have no neighbor QT with Iffrita
At first I was on Iffrita's side in this whole business, since after all, it's possible Bard using weird action resolution. That said, I still got my night results last night, despite dying. Since I'm only alive for a day, I can tell you that I had two abilities. I can Corpsehunt, which reveals the abilities of a dead player, or I can Weak Track. The Weak track tells me if my target targetted anyone.
Just's abilities were as follows: Every night, he tracks all players in the game. This ability cannot be roleblocked. He's also able to choose someone's vote to move to a target of his liking
I feel that Iffrita is our best lynch today. Now let me catch up to see if there is anything specific I want to address. I also might throw a case out there.
P-Edit: Yuan: Hold your damn horses, christ.
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Hrm. Actually, before I do that, I'm going to retract what I said about Iffrita. She's a *possible* lynch, but I need to think about if she's the *best* lynch.
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...
Why would the revived UK have quicktopic access? That makes no sense and doesn't mesh with the flavor I received at all. I didn't get a quicktopic with the dead UK that she couldn't post in, so why would the live UK suddenly be able to talk to me?
RE: Book, I still thought it was unnecessary for her to take townie cred she didn't earn. I apologize if I was somewhat abrasive towards Miya, but I am still rather irritated over the was yesterday ended, and the fact that she was trying to say she should be acknowledged as townie for what she did is ughhh.
As for you question, I would prefer to focus on the Just wagon for now, but Yuan bugs me a little because I can't remember anything she has done and I have no idea who she would want to vote outside of role shenanigans. That's not much of a scum read, though, but it's the closest thing I could throw out there.
Cut by UK. Pretty much what I expected.
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Why would revived UK have quick topic access?
Do you suddenly UNBECOME a neighbor when you die? No?
Further, UK RECEIVED RESULTS FROM HER ABILITY, DESPITE DYING.
So it would stand to reason that if you were truly a neighborizer, then UK would be informed she is a neighbor, and then that she died.
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Also, Yuan, my hider thing doesn't really work as an effective cop, because I'm not actually told whether or not I became bulletproof or not. The bulletproof only lasts a night, so the only way my target is getting cleared is if I actually draw a kill that night and survive it. It's pretty situational and not really reliable for learning the target's alignment.
I thought using the neighborizer early would be a good idea because town lacks direction at this point and I thought that being able to communicate with Moonin could help organize a Depore lynch, and even if he changed his opinions on Depore suddenly, he felt town enough that I thought discussing things with him in private could still at least be beneficial. I didn't want to use my neighborizer late in the game because I figured out-of-thread communication would be less valuable then due to the lower headcount.
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Iffrita - You claim to have submitted a neighborizor action towards Moonin. What where you informed was the result of this action?
Try to be precise.
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...
Why would the revived UK have quicktopic access? That makes no sense and doesn't mesh with the flavor I received at all. I didn't get a quicktopic with the dead UK that she couldn't post in, so why would the live UK suddenly be able to talk to me?
RE: Book, I still thought it was unnecessary for her to take townie cred she didn't earn. I apologize if I was somewhat abrasive towards Miya, but I am still rather irritated over the was yesterday ended, and the fact that she was trying to say she should be acknowledged as townie for what she did is ughhh.
As for you question, I would prefer to focus on the Just wagon for now, but Yuan bugs me a little because I can't remember anything she has done and I have no idea who she would want to vote outside of role shenanigans. That's not much of a scum read, though, but it's the closest thing I could throw out there.
Cut by UK. Pretty much what I expected.
The bolded reads like you are trying to find SOMETHING to pin on me, desperately, to save yourself.
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Orwen: The PM said that I lost my bearings and entered UK's room instead by mistake, but she had already been knifed when I entered her room and I wasn't able to contact her (because she was dead).
Cut by Yuan. If I wanted to do that I would be attacking Miya.
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@UK: Do you seriously think that you would fail to receive notification that you were neighborized, but you DID receive your action result? (despite DYING)
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Votecount the 21th
Depore (1): Iffrita
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (2): One, Book of the Past
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (1): Yuan
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Everyone else!
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 48 hours until Night 2.
Moonin has narrowly avoided prod.
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Orwen: The PM said that I lost my bearings and entered UK's room instead by mistake, but she had already been knifed when I entered her room and I wasn't able to contact her (because she was dead).
Cut by Yuan. If I wanted to do that I would be attacking Miya.
@Mod: What kind of action resolution are you using?
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Okay, I know I'm late, but I will catch up quickly. However, there are a few things I can toss out that may help
Talk the town in circles some more shed light on what happened last night.
I roleclaim full-time Neighborizer. Last night, I targeted UK, but my role specifically states that I lose connection with the target if they die. The message I received was just a generic sounding "Your action failed." and no quicktopic was made.
Cut by Mod Prodding me: I'm not sure if I should really be forward with this, but I need to send something out now.
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@Mod: What kind of action resolution are you using?
(http://boonce.org/up/himitsu.jpg)
Hi~ mi~ tsu~ ♥
Players, please cease attempting to get role-specific information from me. I will not give you any beyond what you need to know.
@Moonin: Noted. Prod retracted, deadline restored by 3 hours. I will update the votecount accordingly.
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... Well then.
Does anybody in this game have a full-time role similiar to the Hider I mentioned? That could possibly explain a lot. I will be mildly irritated if my role only existed to get me into a claim conflict.
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... On second thought, don't answer that. I'm a derp.
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Well, start of day Yuan gives me bad vibes. Interestin' you'd argue that Depore wouldn't kill me. I'll note that the mafia tend to be a team, not a sole person, so Depore wouldn't have the sole say. Second, judging by what a damned lurkfest this game became with me dead, I'd think more experienced scum would override Depore if she DID want to keep me alive. I'll also note it's interesting how quickly you want to perpetuate my reads now despite your behavior yesterday regarding my reads. (I will grant I only get a half point on Just)
Sage Orwen: Are you confirming a double voter claim there? Because that was something I desperately wanted to ask. Ending the day like that was kinda scummy!
Xix: Why do you make a case on Depore and vote Mala again? Seems convenient.
Depore: So you basically were just doing what you thought you could get away with? Interestin'! (Oh, right, you replaced out. Hope to see a good post from you)
Orwen: Didn't I do the same thing and flip town, with regards to Just? (Your points on Mala)
Miya's pressure and Iffrita's response implies Tracker claim. Given Just and my own abilities, I find this exceedingly strange. But I find the Iffrita response even MORE strange. It's kind of tough to decide here. I'll also admit Miya's insistence that her vote on Just was as if she votes scum is interesting.
@Iffrita: Proof of role is not proof of alignment. I've busted out D2 scum tracker claims (as a scum tracker) when I thought I caught someone I could frame. That's the beautiful part of tracker. The information is JUST uncertain enough so that you can get someone mislynched on it without getting lynched yourself. I'm curious why you aren't considering this.
@Book: Depore is your top pick for scum. You voted Mala. Why? What makes Mala different from me, given the case revolves around her GUT =D!
One's got a good point on Miya. Honestly, they BOTH look awful in this shenaniganery.
Moonin is town, quit voting town Mala. Why Moonin over Iffrita, who's been handed to you on a silver platter?
Yuan's claim makes things even more interestin'. It doesn't help I've had scum vibes from her since D1 (OH LOOK MY SECRET SUSPECT REVEALED). You all want that case, by the way? I could write one up now, it'd be fairly easy.
@Iffrita: Well, it's really a matter of how the mod handles things. Unless the action is roleblocked, usually you get a QT, because the neighborize resolves first, and then no one to talk in it. The fact that my action resolved heavily implies that your action should have resolved as well. So it doesn't look good.
@Yuan: Been thinkin' about that, really.
Basically, one of Yuan and Iffrita is scum. If Iffrita is town, Miya is likely scum. Don't go woohooing into it but I think there's enough behavioral evidence to make it possible.
...what the hell, am I REALLY that damn popular? Did EVERYONE just target me last night?
Anyway, with Moonin's claim, I feel a lot more comfortable with ##Vote Iffrita. It's less that he's "counterclaiming" her and more the fact that Iffrita should have been informed of the same thing and has not brought that up at all.
Mod Note: Removed deadspacing.
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Iffrita -
1. You lost your bearings
2. You entered UK's room by mistake
3. She was already knifed when you entered
4. You were not able to contact her
That is precisely the facts the content of your PM informed you of? I don't want to get on a bad lynch by mistake, so if there is any part of this that varies from how your night action was resolved, tell us now.
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If Miya was a tracker, wouldn't she have been told that I was redirected? Granted, I don't know how the mod handles redirects with trackers. I had assumed she was an Insane Cop or something. :s
UK, what should I have been informed of? My PM wasn't as generic as Moonin claimed his was, but I don't know how I can actually give off a good idea of how flavorful it was without getting modkilled. Bleh.
Basically it was something like "You got confused and entered UK's room instead. Your action failed because UK is dead."
Cut by Orwen. Half of that was just me flowering up the post. <_< I didn't know I was supposed to paraphrase my PM, just explain what it told me. It was still more flavorful than Moonin's, however.
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Paraphrase what you think is relevant and run it past the mod. Hrm...
Thinking on it, my role PM is rather flavorful too. I don't generically Gravedig and Weak Track at all. Further, the result has flavor in it as well.
Hrm...Now I'm doubting MOONIN'S claim. But that would mean that scum are throwing themselves at you so you die, and that's weird too given how Border of Life and Death you are at the moment.
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UK, I'd LOVE~ to see your case on me.
Further, once you died you were a confirmed townie. Confirmed townies reads may not always be CORRECT, but they can atleast be trusted to be from a town persepective. Given that I respect your reads enough to consider that you can't be 100% wrong (and that you got Just!SK), I don't see why it would be weird for me to give more credence to your reads?
We may have disagreed, but that doesn't I was going to totally ignore your reads. That's what scum does.
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If Miya was a tracker, wouldn't she have been told that I was redirected? Granted, I don't know how the mod handles redirects with trackers. I had assumed she was an Insane Cop or something. :s
You claim to have visited the person who died last night. Why would you assume this?
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Moonin's claim supports me more than it hurts me, I would think.
I think he's telling the truth and that Bard's flavor is just somewhat inconsistent. :shrug:
Cut by Yuan: Like I said, I thought she would know that I was redirected if she tracked me. I guess this might not have been the case?
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Just found it interesting. Considering it was your opening contribution and you didn't really add much beyond that, it was just adding to the fire. Really, my problem with you yesterday is that every one of your scum suspects was pretty obviously derp. You felt like you were easy target hunting FAR more than you were scumhunting. I'll try to get a more detailed case out before the day ends, but I'm not going to be able to get you lynched today, I don't think. It feels a lot like it's down to Iffrita or Miya, both of which have points against them.
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It would make sense from a Modding perspective, that if you were going to make a full-role game, you'd do as much as you could to make the setup obtuse enough that anyone stupid enough to use roleclaims as a measure of alignment would be directly shooting the town in the foot. This is what Serpentarius did with his game a while back. Besides, My role is useless enough that having another one shot neighborizer isn't as broken as it sounds at first. The mysterious redirect, if not a scum ability, would just be another measure of the town not accidentally making themselves super powerful by having Iffrita, Me, and UK suddenly becoming a Mason group/town voting block overnight.
Of course, I'm just throwing flimsy justifications around, but this is all still as valid as everyone calling Just Scum because Town wouldn't have double vote powers. In other words, I'm still holding the town read I had on her yesterday.
Cut: I don't think comparing flavor is going to make this angle any better guys. My flavor implies that I don't have to leave my room when I use my role, therefore, I didn't get told that I stumbled over a corpse with a knifewound.
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... Actually, that makes no sense flavorwise, now that I think about it, so I suppose her being a Tracker makes sense. I'm just used to Trackers seeing through redirects.
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Yeah, sorry about throwing a flavor argument out there, that was silly. Even the inconsistency is something I've done intentionally as a mod. It just bugs me because Bard seems to REALLY prize his flavor. Still, everything else stands between Miya and Iffrita. Hrm...
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Oh, Yuan, changed your feelings on whether Depore would let me die or not? Or are you going to disagree with my assessment?
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Triple posting is town.
I want Miya to explain why she didn't immediately vote Iffrita, and I don't think it'd be unwise for her to fullclaim her role/results at this juncture. The latter I am willing to drop with a convincing argument.
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Also, why should this day become Miya vs Iffrita? I still feel it's possible for the argument to be town/town. Granted, if Miya really is a tracker then I'd be a lot less unwilling to hang her (the Cop assumption was the reason I was suddenly trusting of her), since scum!Tracker is a genuine possibility.
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Just found it interesting. Considering it was your opening contribution and you didn't really add much beyond that, it was just adding to the fire. Really, my problem with you yesterday is that every one of your scum suspects was pretty obviously derp. You felt like you were easy target hunting FAR more than you were scumhunting. I'll try to get a more detailed case out before the day ends, but I'm not going to be able to get you lynched today, I don't think. It feels a lot like it's down to Iffrita or Miya, both of which have points against them.
Fair Enough UK, and I did realize this. But I also gave reasons for my reads based on intent (besides Depore which was totally gut/Why Me, and I think that scum tell applies to newb scum as much as it does any other kind. Though, I stand by my reasoning that Depore's scum team would not kill you, because you were the only thing seperating him from the gallows.)
It's not really pushing easy targets when these players legitimately HAVE SCUM INTENT.
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Oh, Yuan, changed your feelings on whether Depore would let me die or not? Or are you going to disagree with my assessment?
No, I think that Depore is MORE LIKELY (but not confirmed) town by your death for the reason explained above.
I agree that there are other reasons for killing you, so that might need to be considered.
But Iffrita wasn't getting Depore lynched today. Not after you (as confirmed town) spent all of yesterday basically advocating his towniness.
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Except they didn't, but whatevs, I'll tear it apart in full sometime.
Iffrita: Well, we have a soft 1 v. 1 between you and Miya. This isn't going to go away. Miya elucidating MAY change the situation, but in the end, I feel BOTH of you are sketchy enough so there's scum here, and I'd rather not give up the 50/50. Though I DO plan to give you a nice list of suspects and thoughts before I die again outside of the 1 v. 1 I see.
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To answer Navarus, I voted Just because I thought his role claim was scummy. If he was telling the truth about his role and using it to show that he had to be town, then his defense was crap because the mod told us that role and alignment are independent, and thus, he was stalling with a role that scum could have just as easily as town. If he was lying, he was lying to buy himself a day, which is scummy. Either way, it flipped my stomach to see him stall his lynch like that. Although I did not want to end the day early with my vote, and I did not expect it to be a hammer.
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UK: Why do you feel that I am sketchy? Is it just because of the claim shenanigans, or do you have complaints about my play that I can possibly defend myself against?
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That's what I wanted to hear, Orwen
All right y'all, if you're town and you made Just get hammered at L-1, spit it out! Now's your only chance to claim a double vote or a hated townie maker or what have you and NOT GET SHANKED ON SIGHT.
@Iffrita: It's basically the claim shenanigans, really. Hell, I was siding with you at first when I was passively reading. It's just Mala has pointed out a LOT of weirdnesses with regards to how you handled things. I'll probably need to reread the situation after Miya responds.
@Yuan: So essentially you disagree with me that the other reasons I would be killed would override Depore's desires, were she scum? Not much I can say to change your mind. I don't think you're thinking it through.
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@Book: Depore is your top pick for scum. You voted Mala. Why? What makes Mala different from me, given the case revolves around her GUT =D!
You started the bandwagon and were the first one to pressure Just. Mala jumped on later after leaving her vote parked on Moonin for most of the latter half of the day, called Just's later content solid, and then voted him anyway.
In any case, I found Mala's justification of her actions to make sense enough for me to not consider her a priority for today.
(The only reason I didn't vote Depore is because I want to wait for his replacement to check in).
There's a whirlwind of posts and I'm getting lost in all the softclaims. BRB.
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OK where do I even fucking begin?! Ufufufu~
##Vote: Empress Iffrita
I asked for a roleclaim from her because Empress Iffrita visited Demon Navarus last night! The Demon Navarus who was the night kill? The very same.
So first off we have the excellent points (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677876.html#msg677876) raised by Mala. She had been saying I was scummy all game, the fact that she fakeclaimed at the drop of a hat when I mentioned I have something to damn her is already crazy. I was expecting more resistance.
Now for the fakeclaim oh boy.
First we have the standard scum fakeclaiming doc part. Just to add in more importance it's a roleblock combo.
Then we have the neighborizor and it is really wierd how she used it. She chose Moonin. Moonin already seemed to agree with her, so it would have made more sense to nieghborize someone who didn't agree with her and try to convice them otherwise.
Then the other part is that, THIS WAS A CONFIRMABLE ACTION. UK should have got it, the fact she didn't just further damns her into oblivion.
And now we have the bulletproof claim. You know what is really super convient about this claim? SHE NOW HAS A REASON TO BE ALIVE THE REST OF THE GAME! As scum she wants that.
More stuff to damn her is that she knows she did it. Yuan just caught her (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678121.html#msg678121) slipping because she has an idea of what I'm about to claim and is trying to pass it off as she thinks I'm a cop.
So I would appreciate if we could all lynch Empress Iffrita today~
The reason I did not immediately vote her is because this is role madness and if she could come up with a good reason that flowed well with everything I would consider letting the result not mean as much as it does now.
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So you're claiming tracker in a game with a confirmed weak tracker and an omnitracker third party. Expected as much. Also interesting that your case on her is basically parroting what everyone else said. I also disagree with your neighbor logic, because I use neighboring to have someone to back me up and discuss things with, and someone who agrees with me usually works well for that. But that's not important.
Hrm...well, I'll admit my inclination is against Iffrita still, despite all that. I'll reread the situation sometime today since I've basically been mafiaing for the past damn hour.
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You tracked her to the nightkill and didn't vote her, even though you thought she was scum before? :wat:
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...oh, and that. Where did Miya find Iffrita scum before? I missed that.
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If you want me to full claim I must but I am not just a tracker tracker, I'm nerfed.
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She made several points against her on D1, including a vote.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2721
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@UK: My original opinion of Depore yesterday was that he was scum. I kept that opinion through the night until you died.
I switched my thought because I thought scum would LOVE to have someone white knighting one of their own, especially if he was one of their weaker players. Personally, I see the fact that you were killed over someone obv town like Book of the Past or Mikhail as proof of this. There were certainly reasons to kill you outside of the one I'm giving. (See: The post count today) But I think Mafia with Depore on their team would have dealt with you another day. That's my opinion.
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If you want me to full claim I must but I am not just a tracker tracker, I'm nerfed.
I think you're probably telling the truth about your claim. But it could be either a town or a scum claim.
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Votecount the 22nd
Depore (1): Iffrita
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (2): One, Book of the Past
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (3): Yuan, Navarus, Miya
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Everyone else!
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 47 hours until Night 2.
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@Yuan: hahahahahaha, so you're implying that I wasn't obvtown? Oh God that's a hilarious joke. Further, you're implying Mikhail WAS obvtown? Hell, he was calculated inaction personified. I was going to wail into him today, honestly. Then he turned out to be reviver. Still could be scum, but I see no reason to pursue this right now. I may still make a token case on him for you all to launchpad off of if you need him dead. I'll cede that I expected were I NOT killed, it would have been Book or Iffrita. But, I still can't believe you'd say what you did with a straight face, seriously.
I do agree that Miya is PROBABLY truthful about the claim. Just that it doesn't make her town by default.
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I think you're probably telling the truth about your claim. But it could be either a town or a scum claim.
If she's telling the truth about her claim, does that not all but confirm that@Yuan: hahahahahaha, so you're implying that I wasn't obvtown? Oh God that's a hilarious joke. Further, you're implying Mikhail WAS obvtown? Hell, he was calculated inaction personified. I was going to wail into him today, honestly. Then he turned out to be reviver. Still could be scum, but I see no reason to pursue this right now. I may still make a token case on him for you all to launchpad off of if you need him dead. I'll cede that I expected were I NOT killed, it would have been Book or Iffrita. But, I still can't believe you'd say what you did with a straight face, seriously.
I do agree that Miya is PROBABLY truthful about the claim. Just that it doesn't make her town by default.
Not implying you weren't obv town. I believe I called you one of my stronger town reads yesterday.
I just think that Book was much more obvious town.
And we can't seem to agree on anything this game, can we? >.>
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Whatever, agreeing to disagree on these points. They don't necessarily make you scummy, they're just bad logic (to me). It's kind of noisy to argue them.
If she's telling the truth, that doesn't eliminate the possibility Iffrita is telling the truth as well. And I had a stronger town read on Iffrita than I ever did Miya. So you can understand why I'm trying to think this through. I'm going to not look at this for a few hours.
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If she's telling the truth about her claim, does that not all but confirm that
Not sure what this means, but to clarify, Miya could be a scum tracker, who tracked Iffrita to Navarus and saw a chance to throw suspicion on her. Hence why I'm so wary about the lack of a vote.
Well, I reckon we could probably settle this Iffrita/Miya thing today.
How do you guys feel about a double day? :toot:
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Oh awesome, I wrote a new post over top of the other post I was writing >.>
EBWOP: I meant to say, if she's being truthful about her claim, doesn't it all but confirm that Empress was being SUPER SHIFTY when she dropped her claiim and then was all like "OH I THINK IT MIGHT BE INSANE COP"?
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@UK: This is only speculation, but I think Just was a hated townie by default. Note how desperate she* seemed to move the votes away from her. I think she knew that another vote would have hammered her.
*Can I just start calling Just a she without getting glares for it? You have no idea how many typed I have typed the wrong pronoun for the character and felt annoyed when I had to go back and fix it.
Cut by Miya.
I didn't attempt to talk to somebody I could convince about my opinions because people tend not to listen to me in Mafia, like, ever. Note that I never convinced anybody with my Depore case yesterday. <_< I thought trying to get a two-person voting block going would be a lot more useful, especially if it could push my preferred case.
That said, I'm not sure why you're claiming UK should have been neighborized by me when Moonin neighborized UK as well and nothing happened. Did you not read the thread?
I'm only bulletproof on one night, and only if I target town! I don't think it gives me a reason to be alive for the rest of the game. Given that the scum team most likely has a hijacker, they could very easily negate my bulletproof by redirecting me to scum if they think I'm going to hide on the night they kill me.
##Unvote
##Vote Princess Miya since I guess it's coming down to this, and there's no way I'm getting Depore offed today now that she has a replacement and we've entered a claim conflict involving unrelated players. The lack of resistance was because I thought Miya was most likely an insane cop for reasons that I already went over, but I can see why scum!Tracker!Miya would claim in an attempt to remove me from play.
I wasn't exactly an obvious target today, and offing somebody unexpected today rather than a more predictable town lynchee would allow the more likely mislynches to live later into the game, making a scum win easier. Furthermore, a lot of Miya's actual case on me seems recycled from other posts, and some if it isn't even valid anymore, which makes me wonder if she is even reading the thread. Miya does not really have any non-role-related reasons to lynch me, either, and that's not something I'm fond of, because if she is scum then it means that she can possibly get me mislynched without having to write up a proper analysis of my D1 actions that explains why I'm scummy.
I'll re-read the thread in a bit (read: when I feel up to it, I've been arguing over role shenanigans for the past hour or so and it's tiring) to see if I can come up with a stronger case on Miya than what I have already gone over.
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Oh awesome, I wrote a new post over top of the other post I was writing >.>
EBWOP: I meant to say, if she's being truthful about her claim, doesn't it all but confirm that Empress was being SUPER SHIFTY when she dropped her claiim and then was all like "OH I THINK IT MIGHT BE INSANE COP"?
They're both really shifty. I'm not going to make a conclusion until I get a reread done later tonight.
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@UK and Book: No, that's not what I meant, though I see where you drew it from. Sorry for the confusion.
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@Book:
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/ValetVisuals/Random/chenwhat2.jpg)
Sure, if you got that, let's do it.
@Empress: I can confirm that's not the case on Just. If she was a hated townie, she did not know about it. I know all her abilities.
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Partial claim: I have a one-shot dayvig ability. Unfortunately it also has some bastardly side effects...like making me a death miller. :ohdear:
I'm going to decide whether or not I'm going to use it later. In the meanwhile I want Iffrita and Miya to talk as much as they can~
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Christ that is an awful awful claim. But, as long as the vig is town directed, it shouldn't be TOO much of a problem...
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...Except when I made cases on you and voted you for being scum yesterday, so GJ misreppin'.
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Christ that is an awful awful claim. But, as long as the vig is town directed, it shouldn't be TOO much of a problem...
I know right? :ohdear:
Which is why Bard is a complete bastard.
To be honest, I'm perfectly fine with not using it. It removes the WIFOM aspect that will inevitably surface.
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Partial claim: I have a one-shot dayvig ability. Unfortunately it also has some bastardly side effects...like making me a death miller. :ohdear:
I'm going to decide whether or not I'm going to use it later. In the meanwhile I want Iffrita and Miya to talk as much as they can~
Wait, WHAT?
That contradicts rule #6 - The mod's word is the truth...
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Your case was unbelievably flimsy, though! I defended it against twice and you never really gave my defense posts proper consideration. You just kind of brushed them aside, with the exception of the explanation of my Mala thought process. I don't think you genuinely have much dirt on me, and it's rather weird you kept considering me to be your #1 suspects when your other cases were actually stronger.
Unless it was an excuse for scum!you to track me last night?
also, book what the fuck
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In which case the mod is a lying bastard and I will complain in the post-game.
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- Players flip with Role Name and Alignment, but not an explanation of their role. Any exceptions to this are caused by roles.
^Also this.
I flip perfectly normally if I don't do anything.
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Yes, I don't have much dirt on you since you haven't done enough to be pursued without a report of some kind. I resent that you think I haven't considered your defenses. I spent all of last night going over the possibility you could be town and it didn't add up. There was something wrong with the way you went about all of yesterday, and you having visited UK last night along with the scum claim today only confirmed my doubts.
But even now, the way you go about attacking me doesn't convince me that you truly think I'm scum. You're just trying to self preserve and it's awful.
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I already said you were my second choice for a lynch at the start of the day. Regardless, I don't care if I'm not convincing you that I think you're scum, given that if you're scum you already know it's the truth anyway, and I think the last line of your post is just an attempt to discredit my opinion on you in the eyes of the other townies. Your negative opinion on me doesn't seem to flow very well at all and it pretty much makes me feel that something is up with your attacks, unless you have ~extreme tunnel vision~. I don't buy that somebody could be 100% sure a player is scum off of a Day 1 case of all things.
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Still rereading.
Yuan, I consider the whole UK being Nightkilled and thus, no longer whiteknighting Depore to be a null-tell. Anyone could point to UK having flipped town, and said that the NK wouldn't make sense for Depore!Scum. The fact that you're constantly pushing that bit to the forefront actually turns it from an insight into fullblown WiFoM. Therefore, I'm disregarding it.
I actually had a lot of rage aimed at the entire Just Wagon, especially at Orwen, but then I learned that Just Only have 6 votes on him. It took a bit of gear grinding, but yeah, I ended up working much harder to go to my happy place last night than I needed to. The fact that it hammered early does make Mala being an Alternate Scum wagon more likely.
Also, Question for Iffritas, though I'm not sure it will help much, but do you have a tendency to read the end of night phase change before posting walls of text written overnight?
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I was not "100% sure" you were scum off of day 1 but I am now that I have a fake fakeclaim and a you visiting UK last night.
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Moonin: I don't edit my overnight walls when I post them unless I have a really big correction to make (like an overnight scum death), at which point I'm liable to start over from scratch. Otherwise, you wouldn't have seen any mention of Navarus, given that we got our results early and I already knew UK was dead.
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(The reason that I do not do this is so that people know what my opinions were on dead players before they actually flipped.)
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Also, I have no intention of demasking myself, but if you know who I am (it's kind of obvious :x), then you could probably go back and check some old games to see that I am not lying about this for the sake of preserving myself. I can think of a few times where I have done so in the past.
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No, that's alright. I still have a lingering town read on you. I don't think scum Iffritas would take the time to fake adding in something on the nightkill. Even scum doing a giant wall of overnight would probably reduce the opinion of the previous night's kill to "[Redacted] Whelp, s/he was killed, so we're not lynching him/her :V".
The biggest thing on the wagon yesterday that frustrated my was Miya switching to Just, and solidifying the wagon on him. Even though it turned out to be a good thing. Especially since a One lynch, at the time, could have been just as serviceable as the Just lynch, and (IMO) Slightly better than the Mala lynch the Just-sympathizers had to work with by then. The wagon hop also came at a time where people were just starting to talk about alternative wagon choices.
I'm also picking the side that I am because this whole counterclaim thing seems like it was planned. Scum probably had a redirection role, and safe in the knowledge that almost everyone had a nightaction, the redirector could easily have moved Iffritas' action to Target the nightkill, then have the redirector claim that they tracked her targeting the nightkill, which would then end with a lot of confusion on town's part, and especially on Iffritas' part as well. The fact that Iffritas was redirected makes this very suspicious.
##Vote: Miya
Also, I think the vig should shoot anyways. There's not that much WiFoM involved because either one: History-Kun is telling the truth, or two: Scum are giving town their free extra-kill.
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Oh hey, something I missed. Miya, you said I thought you were scum all game, but this looks like hyperbole to me. The only time I had a strong scum read on you pre-claim was at the start of today, and I can only think of one other time in which I actually attacked you. Why the misrep?
Cut by Moonin.
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Hrm...I completely forgot about what Moonin brought up. It was something I had even thought about when initially reading the post after my death...
This is becoming more annoying. I'm going to play Crawl for a bit and then maybe throw myself at this. I'll have a post out before I go to bed this evening.
##Unvote so nothing stupid happens. Also, I'll remind you all L-1 is NOT SAFE.
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Whoops. Sorry, the L-x thing didn't occur to me. Still wanted to get my vote on the board, though.
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Hey hey hey HEY no quickhammers while I'm still catching up. I do you all a fantastic favor and replace in for someone everyone wanted to hear from and then you go ahead and forget me~ ;_; SEE IF I EVER REPLACE IN FOR YOU JERKS EVER AGAIN
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Also something really quick!
Navarus: Since you're back from the grave and Just isn't, what were you going to talk about here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676548.html#msg676548)? If you already addressed it and I Just haven't caught up that far then feel free to Just link to what you said or whatever.
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I did address it. Yuan was my secret suspect. That still holds. Honestly, I was kind of hoping I WOULDN'T be NK'd because I know she'd do it if she thought I suspected her. But, I guess there were other things involved.
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Gotcha, thanks. I did see it on the way by after asking you about it.
Anyway, basically caught up, have written up some stuff but not nearly enough that I am ready to post just yet. Shouldn't be too much longer, though; most of it will be wrapping my head around Miya/Iffrita and writing up the results. Muchas gracias for waiting, everyone~ <3
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Votecount the 24th
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (2): Yuan, Navarus, Miya
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Depore, Navarus
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 44 hours until Night 2.
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##Unvote for now, but I think it's pretty clear where I stand.
Miya, you're awfully quiet. I want you to talk a bit about the other players. Who else would you want lynched besides Iffrita? Same question goes for Iffrita, but I already have some opinions from her.
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I also don't like the clears on Xix and Depore and want him to explain them.
Also this.
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DEPORE'S OPINIONS: THE MOVIE: THE GAME: THE NOVEL
Chapter 1
So after replacing in and reading the thread I have come to the conclusion that replacing into Mafia games is for suckers and masochists. I'm rather dizzy after that deluge of words, so if there's anything anyone addressed to Oldepore that they want me to also address, as aggravating as I am sure this will be, please restate it one last time. HOWEVER do keep in mind that I am not a mind reader and I do not know what Oldepore's thoughts so most instances of asking me "why did Oldepore _______" will get ignored. Or maybe I'll steal an ASCII shrug from one of Just's posts if I'm entertained enough.
Something puzzling is Orwen's end of Day 1 behavior, which is irritating because I want to throw him in my town pool due to the rest of his play being fairly logical. (Editor's note: It looks like Mikhail addressed some of the details here but his logic dovetailed differently from mine and I like my conclusion a lot better so I'm just going to leave it uncut regardless.) He was pretty gung-ho on Mala and started not liking the Just wagon here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676843.html#msg676843), but then there is this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676948.html#msg676948) line of reasoning for swinging over to Just and does look fairly reasonable. What he said about roles and alignments not being linked is true! The major problem is that it's not the reason Just's claim was provable as town (well, non-scum, at least). Just's claim was provable as non-scum because ScumJust being able to zap a vote from TownAnyone means some sort of LYLO or MYLO announcement would come a day earlier than expected due to N scum having N+1 votes and N+1 town having N votes. This has nothing to do with roles and alignments being tied together, it's sheer game mechanic mathematics. The numbers are also unbiased, and this is important because Orwen does not have an excuse for missing this - Just pointed it out himself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676898.html#msg676898) before Orwen drew the false conclusion. I don't know about anyone else in this game, but if I'm suddenly suspicious of the counterwagon to my preferred lynch due to something of theirs seeming to contradict the rules, I'd be sure to read over the rest of their posts just to be sure I didn't miss anything important.
Given all this, I think Orwen was looking for a reason to swing to Just rather than legitimately suspecting him and found that line of Just's and used it again him. Her. Whatever. Maybe this is because he wanted to keep his top "scum read" around. Or possibly because of a Orwen/Mala pair with a side of bussing? Not too likely but it's not like Mala is the squeakiest cleanest townie in the game. Or maybe for some other reason that I can't really speculate because lolspeculatingscumreasons. Point it is looks terrible in a very scummy way.
I know all that isn't related to the CLAIM CONFLICT FAMILY DICHOTOMY WHOAMG we have going on right now but I spit on your dichotomies and then drink their milkshakes. And then address them anyway because I am normally a stand-up guy and I feel bad about the spitting. (The milkshake less so.) Splitting here - opinion on Miya v. Iffrita in next post. I wanted to put this out there first, though, just to make sure it gets highlighted.
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Chapter 2: Electric Boogalore
So both Miya and Iffrita have pretty much botched most of the day regardless of their alignments. Miya trying to promote herself with Just's flip is bad and scummy for reasons other people have already mentioned. Not opening her day with an Iffrita vote after spending a lot of Day 1 pursuing Iffrita is bizarre and her explanation for it is inadequate because there was no reason she couldn't just plant her vote on Iffrita at the beginning and then move it away if she heard something she found satisfactory. On the flip side, Iffrita conceding to the role claim request is very appease-y, even with the explanation she's provided for it, and she's been playing more defensively than Miya has been. For all that Miya's attacks have been questionable, at least she's being proactive where Iffrita has felt more reactive.
I think I will have to ##Vote: Empress Iffrita, because Miya's botches lean a little more toward being overzealous townie botches while Iffrita's play leans a little bit more toward cornered scum.
*
On to other people.
Due to satisfactory content, I have no particular desire to pursue Book or Mikhail, though the latter is not at all due to his role (which is a null tell). (Shame on you all for going over 450 posts without one of you making the pun that they read Book as town, by the way.) I am also not interested in pursuing Moonin because I think the timing of his claim makes a lot more sense coming from town than from scum.
Xix I am not 100% sure on but I lean town. I think his Day 2 has been better than his Day 1 and I would not be surprised at all if this is because Day 2 did not start with a runaway train half-feuled by joke votes that brought him to L-1. Mikhail's comments about his #73 ring fairly true, but I think some of Xix's Day 1 behaviour, including that #73, could be chalked up to aggravation.
One I am willing to extend some leeway for being new because both he and Oldepore were making a bunch of newbie mistakes and I know Oldepore, at least, was making them as a townie.
Mala is unimpressive. I would have voted her over Just yesterday had I been in the game (for whatever that's worth) and I really do not like how she grilled Iffrita right after Iffrita's claim (which was actually good stuff), veered off and voted Moonin instead (which is made all the worse by her grilling being good), and has yet to comment since. Granted that last one could be chalked up to outside circumstances, but that doesn't make me like it any more.
Yuan...does anyone else get the feeling she's trying to be a game leader? Not necessarily someone that tries to drag town around by the nose toward all the wrong voting targets, but someone that tries to have more of a hand in the flow of the game than normal? I am naturally wary of these types, because it's a good position to take to avoid suspicion. If I'm the only one that sees this then I'll be glad to ignore it and move on, and as much as I don't get a striking town read from her I have to admit my read may be colored because I don't like her playstyle. Wouldn't put her below Mala, but still most likely wouldn't put her above One, and definitely wouldn't put her above Xix.
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Also she is slightly audacious in "divining" every second.
You can call me and we can divine the future together if you're feeling lonely.
@Demon Navarus #404: "Moonin is town, quit voting town Mala. Why Moonin over Iffrita, who's been handed to you on a silver platter?" Because I still think that Moonin is scum and I was organizing my thoughts in regards to Empress Iffrita.
Empress Iffrita's #402 is all kinds of terrible. She tries to take it back in #403 but it's still pretty bad.
Moonin is still scum by the way. FORM AN OPINION. IF YOU DON'T MAN UP I'M GOING TO RETRACT MY DIVINATION OFFERS FROM YOU. My #262. What was bad about it. What wasn't bad about it. Your #296. What do you think about One? Who needed to be scum in order for Depore's scumslips to be actual scumslips? What WERE Depore's scumslips in the first place? Stop sitting on the fence. In your entire Day 2 activity you've forgotten completely about the three players that you suspected throughout Day 1 in order to join in the fun activities of Princess Miya vs. Empress Iffrita. Please update your reads on One, Depore and myself and try not to sit on the fence about all three of us this time.
@Depore: Do you have any reason right now to believe that the Book of the Past is aligned with town? Did you have a reason to believe that the Book of the Past was aligned with the town during Day 1? What do you think of the old Depore's Yuan case? What do you think of the fact that the old Depore dropped all three of her previous cases to go onto the Yuan case?
I will state again that I dislike Empress Iffrita. #439 "I thought trying to get a two-person voting block going would be a lot more useful, especially if it could push my preferred case." Please die. Her willingness to fullclaim when "pressured" by somebody that she thought was scum is terrible. She did not question what information that Princess Miya may or may not have had. Instead she claimed the entirety of her role as well as WHICH ability she used and WHO she used it on. To me this looks absolutely terrible. She adds information to her claim as she sees fit. For example she only claimed that her neighbourizing ability fails if the target dies AFTER Demon Navarus is resurrected. She adds the information that her hider thing only provides the bulletproof for a single night AFTER Yuan calls it out as an overpowered cop ability. She stops making any cases at this point and votes for Princess Miya on the basis of "you, not me" in #439.
Why do you people not see that Moonin is trying to kill us all? How can you trust a guy with a hood on?
##FoS Empress Iffrita
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The information being added later is highly suspicious because of how willing she was to divulge information at first. She was leaking all of her abilities, her target and which ability she used to us yet only added in important details after information appeared that made her claim look bad.
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@Mala: Yeah, uh, all the information you accused me of adding on was there in the first place. It wasn't obvious, but you should have been able to tell that it was what I meant. I'll point out the specifics if necessary.
Also, Not Me Over Me isn't a scumtell at all, what the fuck. I intend to sum up everything I have on Miya into a hefty post later in the day, but as is I'm kind of tired of writing :words: so you'll have to wait. The only reason I'm making this post right now is because everything you're saying is aggravating as hell.
Telling me to "please die" over how I personally would choose to use a neighbor role in any given game regardless of whether or not I am actually a neighborizer in this one makes me rage as a person rather than a player because it is basically a personal attack on how I use power roles. You didn't even explain what was wrong with what I said. Ugh.
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I have a highly negative opinion of those that attempt to form miniature voting blocks and can see them as nothing but scum-motivated. Please do tell me how you hinted that your bulletproof only lasted for a single night. #343 "I am quite sure you can figure out how that turned out. Ugh." seems to me as if you were unable to communicate, not that the communications completely failed to activate. It will be up to the rest of the town to decide on the neighbourizing point.
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Scum pushing for a miniature voting block once does not mean that only scum will ever push for a miniature voting block. If talking about how I would consider utilizing a neighborizer to create one earns me a "please die", then apparently I'm going to be scummy in your eyes every single time I roll neighborizer on this site.
If I had been told I succesfully communicated with UK before her death, I would have claimed it. I thought the overall tone of "and I am quite sure you can figure out how that turned out. Ugh." implied that it failed because of her death.
... In hindsight I can honestly see why somebody would misunderstand my hider claim considering that I explained it really poorly, but I thought it would at least be interpreted as how it should have been based on how a typical hider is only kill-immune on the nights they're targetting somebody (although my role isn't really that close to the description of a typical hider, I guess). That, and becoming permanently bulletproof by copping somebody is a pretty unorthodox and partially broken role. <_<
All of this is the fault of a lack of clarity on my part, and I apologize, but being imperfect does not make me lying scum trying to constantly revise a roleclaim.
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I have believed your roleclaim to be false since before your revisions so it is a moot point.
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I think Book is aligned with Town because I found myself nodding along with his(?) posts on both days as I read them. As far as I have seen, he(?)'s been level-headed and thought things out, and not done much of anything for me to think he's been ill intended. Do you think Book is scum (or was and no longer is, which is a pretty amazing conclusion to arrive at)? Point at something if so, because I don't remember seeing anything that stood out.
In terms of the Oldepore Yuan case, I think they were just excited to see what they thought was a factual slip. I think it was more silly newbie play, jumping at the chance to make a case that was founded on something concrete than the rather nebulous-to-a-newbie concept of scumhunting.
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I know Iffrita and Miya have both read the thread since I last posted (I'M USING LAST ACTIVE TIMES OH NOES) so I know you're both ignoring me. Please talk about which other suspects you would have lynched apart from each other.
Also, I would appreciate it if all players would enter the phrase "Bard is cute" into the thread, like so, even if in a standalone post. I assure you it has a pro-town purpose.
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@Depore: So there was no reason for the old Depore to announce that the Book of the Past was town in her opinion posts when all of her other opinions consisted of what she thought was bad about other people? What do you think about old Depore forgetting completely about her previous three cases after picking up the Yuan case?
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@Book of the Post: Why should I do any favors for you when I can't even use you for divination?
Or can I?
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EBWOP: Book of the Past not Book of the Post.
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Eh, why not.
"Bard is cute"
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@Book of the Post: Why should I do any favors for you when I can't even use you for divination? Or can I?
I'll tell if if you type it in. ;)
It has to do with my vig power.
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Orwen, could you enlighten us on your position in this Iffrita/Miya debacle?
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Bard is cute.
If only I could convince him to assist with my divination...
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Votecount the 25th
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (3): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Navarus
Bard Is Cute (3)
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 40 hours until Night 2.
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@Book: I don't like your caginess regarding the effects of what you're asking us to do. If you explain its pro-town purpose, then I will most likely say the magic words without hesitation.
I previously would have been down with a Depore lynch (of course), but an initial glance at her replacement's content makes me think that it's good stuff, so I'm not too sure about that now. I haven't done any in-depth post analysis at all (including of newDepore's post) since I've saving that for when I actually write up a stronger Miya case, though. I don't feel like actually writing :words: as is and I'm actually somewhat busy right now. But apparently checking the thread in my anon account means I have infinite time on my hands and means I'm obligated to reply to everyone's post, so okay. (Seriously, the only reason I bothered responding to Mala's post earlier is because it made me rage.)
I'm also perfectly fine lynching for Mala, for the reasons I mentioned in my opening post. ... Actually, everything I'm saying right now is stuff that was in my opening post. Why do you feel that I need to repeat myself? My opinions have not really changed too much beyond Miya taking the front spot now. More on that later like I said, I've actually done a little bit of my re-read already and am already noticing some issues that I missed previously.
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Also, really, I'm not going to be make any more early responses to posts that try to goad me into replying ASAP using online times of all things. I often have time to pop in and check recent posts in Mafia, but not the time or mental strength to analyze things and post a bunch of :words: on my thoughts.
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@Book: I don't like your caginess regarding the effects of what you're asking us to do. If you explain its pro-town purpose, then I will most likely say the magic words without hesitation.
If you want me to be that blunt, saying that phrase will make people valid targets for my vig shot.
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Well then.
"Bard is cute"
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Bard is cute. Not as cute as me, but hey, who is?
@Mala: I don't know why he thought it necessary to declare Book townie. Maybe he wanted to get an opinion out that wasn't negative? Like you said, all of her other stated opinions were.
If there's more to the whole "switch to Yuan" thing beyond being overzealous newbie I don't know what it is. I don't pretend to know why newbies do strange things. We've had newbies here vote for people without providing any reasoning and then retract those votes stating they forgot why they cast them in the first place.
Also that is totally not an opinion on Book or a link to any of Book's posts that made you feel bad about him like I asked of you. Also not cool getting cold shouldered by Iffrita and Orwen. I don't like being ignored. ;_;
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Also, really, I'm not going to be make any more early responses to posts that try to goad me into replying ASAP using online times of all things. I often have time to pop in and check recent posts in Mafia, but not the time or mental strength to analyze things and post a bunch of :words: on my thoughts.
No, I understand. I was just looking for a quick overview of where you stand to help me with something. The question was more aimed at Miya anyway, who has yet to say anything on anyone except you.
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@Depore: I don't have a bad feeling about the Book of the Past. The reason I was asking was because one thing I disliked about old Depore was the fact that she randomly inserted her opinion that he was town aligned when all of her other opinions were suspicions of various people.
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Oh, okay. Sorry I can't be more of a help than this in that regard. Believe me, I'm fairly baffled by it myself.
As long as you're here, though, since Orwen's been pressing you for a decent length of time in this game, what do you think of what I pointed out in #469? I'll go ahead and assume you disagree with the pairing idea (>_>) but I'm curious to hear what you have to think beyond that.
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Orwen, could you enlighten us on your position in this Iffrita/Miya debacle?
Sure thing, Book!
I think Miya is a tracker. She may have been a lucky scum tracker, but it seems more likely that she is a town tracker, since her tracking is based on players she has shown suspicion on. Which bothers me because otherwise, I would have preferred her lynch over Iffrita's lynch. Iffrita's content is far better, and she makes lots of interesting cases on lots of players.
Iffrita is more likely to be lying than Miya about her role. Iffrita is also one of the towniest players here. Had Miya not tracked her last night, I wouldn't have even considered and Iffrita lynch. I'll need to reread her thoroughly and I'm still thinking it all through.
Back in my 405 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678114.html#msg678114), I reconfirmed the contents of the mod PM Iffrita told us she received last night. At the time (and a little bit now), she said she was told that she visited UK's room. This bothers me, because UK technically isn't a player (in spite of claiming) - Demon Navarus is the player. Her PM should have said she stumbled into Demon Navarus's room. That's why I needed so much precision from Iffrita.
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If I have to pick between Iffrita and Miya, Iffrita is more likely to be scum.
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I really hope I'm not missing anything important because that post I was going to make tonight isn't going to happen until tomorrow morning. I'm hanging out with friends and we're likely to get slightly drunk watching movies, which basically means I'll be in no shape to post since my name isn't Shadoweh (I'M KIDDING PLEASE DON'T SHANK ME :ohdear:)
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So, on the one hand, reading Book's thing about the saying stuff bugs the shit out of me. On the other, I've thought of him as protown so...hmm...
Against my better judgement
Bard is Cute
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Oh, reading is awesome and triple posting is town. I get the impression you'll probably not be shooting me.
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Votecount the 26th
Mala (2): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (3): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Navarus
Bard Is Cute (6)
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 35 hours until Night 2.
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Bah, what a damn busy day this was.
##Unvote while I get caught up.
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You know what, fuck it. I'm tired from today, it's fucking late at night, anything I read is going through my head, and the brightness hurts my eyes. I'm going to sleep and post tomorrow.
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Although if my head did remember one thing, Bard is cute
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@Depore #494: Your #469? I don't really get it. You're trying to say that it Just's role was provable as a non-scum role based on the fact that LYLO/MYLO would come sooner? There are so many holes in this theory. How do you know for certain that LYLO/MYLO would be called a day earlier? How would we even know when LYLO/MYLO should be on us? You would need to keep Just alive until whenever LYLO/MYLO occured. What if there was a different third party that could speed up LYLO/MYLO if Just were aligned with town? What about any other roles that may have come into effect? However I do believe that Sage Orwen's switch to Just looked strange but for different reasons.
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Votecount the 27th
Mala (1): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (3): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Navarus, Xix
Bard Is Cute (6)
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 26 hours until Night 2.
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I don't think my stance is changing before deadline.
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Bardiche is Cute.
Where'd the wagon that piled on me the day before go, and does no one agree with Yuan, on yesterday's case on me?
or is it a much lesser priority then the current wagons? Where'd the pressure go!!!!
@Role Claim:I'm unable to help in this part, due to the fact that I do not understand the importance of role powers.
@Demon Navarus: I need your opinion of me now while you are still alive.
@Mikhail: Other then being "Derp" to you, I wish to know your opinion of me, that is not summerized in One Word.
@Yuan: With the wagons going on at the moment, and your case on me having not changed, am I truly a lesser priority then Empress Iffrita?
@Prophet Mala: With all your invitations to people to "divine" are you subtly trying to say you have a neighborizing role as well? If not, I'd appreciate you stop the role playing because it will likely throw the game off.
@Xix: I think you not posting before going to sleep is not well received. If your going to wait for tommorrow I hope that you have a good nice post about the game for town advantage.
@On the note of votes, am I the only one that noticed that Mikhail's vote did not count towards Sage Orwen's vote count?
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Yuan and One, could you both post "Bard is cute," like so? "Bardiche" doesn't count.
Anyway, I've looked over Iffrita and Miya. While I don't like how Iffrita's claim came out, she's been pretty clear on her stances since then, and her previous activity was pro-town. Miya still hasn't dropped in despite having only the claim on D2, and I'm still waiting for an explanation on D1 clears.
Miya should get in here ASAP. I want to resolve this Iffrita/Miya situation because it's clear we're all just sitting around waiting.
Mikhail is interesting! :3 Notice the number of players alive~
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Where'd the wagon that piled on me the day before go, and does no one agree with Yuan, on yesterday's case on me?
or is it a much lesser priority then the current wagons? Where'd the pressure go!!!!
I'm not sure if this is supposed to be confusion or a taunt. Do you want a wagon on you?
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huh, I assumed the full name counted...
"Bard is Cute"
I'm not sure if this is supposed to be confusion or a taunt. Do you want a wagon on you?
Well I had a wagon on me in day one, with a max of 4 votes, then every left the wagon for Mala or Just.
Well, its kind of a reminder, due to the fact that I'm starting to feel ignored. >.>
Plus, I'm starting to miss that pressure...makes me work harder.
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Yuan and One, could you both post "Bard is cute," like so? "Bardiche" doesn't count.
Mikhail is interesting! :3 Notice the number of players alive~
I know its a good thing to have options open, But I'm finding you alittle 2 pushy about saying what is needed to be said to day-vig...but if it was just a correction then thats fine. But why did you specifically ask about Yuan saying it when, there were others who have yet to say it?...
Also for your Mikhail thing...Me No understand.
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...i give up
Bard is cute
god damn exactness
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Votecount the I Refuse To Keep Track
Mala (1): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (3): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Not Voting: Navarus, Xix
Bard Is Cute (7) - LYNCHED
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 25 23 hours and 30 minutes until Night 2.
Bard's cuteness has been lynched. Now only grumpy Bard remains. And grumpy Bard docks two hours from your deadline.
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Bard's cuteness has been lynched. Now only grumpy Bard remains. And grumpy Bard docks two hours from your deadline.
>_> I hope that's just flavor for time deduction for this game's horrible activity.
Mikhail isn't in the game right now.
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I know its a good thing to have options open, But I'm finding you alittle 2 pushy about saying what is needed to be said to day-vig...but if it was just a correction then thats fine. But why did you specifically ask about Yuan saying it when, there were others who have yet to say it?...
I asked Yuan because she popped in without saying it. I don't consider her a priority though. The person I'm waiting for has yet to grace us with his presence.
Also
[12:49:35] <Bardiche> It is flavour.
[12:49:39] <Bardiche> You may quote that.
Troll mods. >_>
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Oh, that's actually game related? I'm sorry Book.
Bard is cute.
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All right, so, I'm finally awake. Was up later than I expected last night. I'll be rereading from the start of the day and possibly ISOing Miya and Iffrita if I can't come to a conclusion from the claimsterfuck we have going on.
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Oh God both claims were SO SO awful.
Look, Iffrita, you claimed as if you knew you had been tracked. If you were just worried about an insane cop, you probably wouldn't have thrown in your targetting. I find it incredibly hard to believe that a Tracker ~*~never occurred to you~*~
Miya, I'm going to ISO you and probably find a lot of Iffrita hate. You have at least 50% of a linchpin on her and you...bait her into fullclaiming and don't push it with a vote? Seriously?
Argh, I want to vote both killed and mangled. They can both be scum, right?
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I considered the possibility that both were scum and rejected it. Neither of the two were shaping up the be the primary lynch wagons for today; I don't see why scum would deliberately draw attention to themselves. Unless it's a really stupid gambit.
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@Book: I know, I know. I really tried to work it. The closest I could get was Miya being superbussed so Iffrita gets super town cred, and they both fucked it up incredibly hard. And you're right, that's absolutely illogical. Iffrita seems like the type of person who would oppose such a dumb plan anyway.
I'll admit that rereading Iffrita gives me weird gut tingles against her, but that could be bias. Like...she's there and everything but I guess I feel like she uses a lot of padding with her posts?
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Um...another point I'll note is that Iffrita, after Miya's claim, basically was treating her as town. "Oh you must be an insane cop" sort of things. Why the blazes did she change from MIYA IS SCUM PLEASE DIE AFTER DEPORE to that? It's flimsy, but it honestly feels like she KNEW Miya was town, and is appealing to her that way in hopes of getting Miya off of her caught self. The change makes no sense given both that roles are not related to alignment AND that the claim was more tailored for a tracker result than a supposed insane cop result...
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Miya's ISO is incredibly flimsy but her actions flow SLIGHTLY better than Iffrita's. While early on, Miya had an Iffrita case, she dropped it in favor of one. What makes this interesting is I'm wondering why she tracked Iffrita over One. Also, Miya, do you think One is still scum?
Anyway, I'm perfectly ok with Iffrita being shot or lynched. Her inconsistencies and apparent bargaining with the cop weigh far worse than Miya's excitedness.
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I agree that Iffrita's claim seemed to be tailored to fit a Tracker result and that her Miya clear was completely out of the blue. I like her position in the entire claim situation less than Miya's, but Miya really really feels like she's trying to lurk out the day, WHICH IS WHY I WANT HER TO POST.
As for the padding point, I'm not sure but I think that's just a playstyle quirk.
Eh, I guess I'm okay with Iffrita getting shot I suppose if that's what the majority wants. I would still prefer to shoot Miya. Either way, Miya needs to post.
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Ah, One! What do you think of Iffrita and Miya? With or without the claim situation.
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@Mala: I think some of your concerns can be addressed with something very simple. Shame on myself for not doing it sooner (and shame on Just for not doing it on Day 1 to further drive the point home).
@Mod: Will potential/real LYLOs and MYLOs be announced?
If LYLOs and MYLOs get announced then we would have recieved an announcement a day sooner than expected due to the algebra I cited earlier unless Bard is a tremendous asshole mod. The existence of other roles causing speed-ups in *YLO announcements will be discovered in the massclaim that will almost invariably follow an early *YLO announcement, because everyone is going to want to know what the hell is going on.
Leaving Just alive would have been necessary, yes. There are occasionally claims where this is the best course of action. Beloved Princess, for example.
Now, even though I think all of your concerns are quite addressable (as demonstrated above), they are still reasonable concerns. Ask yourself why Orwen did not consider any of these concerns with Just's claim, instead opting to cite something far less relevant to Just's justification (Justification?) to excuse changing his vote. Like I said before,
I don't know about anyone else in this game, but if I'm suddenly suspicious of the counterwagon to my preferred lynch due to something of theirs seeming to contradict the rules, I'd be sure to read over the rest of their posts just to be sure I didn't miss anything important.
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I'm here.
I find it possible that Miya is pushing her post back as long as possible so that she doesn't have to say "Bard is cute" and become a viable dayvig target, forcing Book to target me. This worries me.
I'm writing up an actual case on Miya right now, for whatever that's worth. The recent posts have given me the impression that everybody only cares about the post-claim actions when deciding who to vote for, but if people actually listen to me, then that'd be excellent~
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@Depore: The big problem with your math is it would require us to let someone who had been rather scummy acting to live to lylo. That would be incredibly foolish. Letting her "prove her claim" would have been ludicrous, since even the proof of the claim would have put us in a situation where we had left a possible scum alive to lylo, AND to control a vote. That was simply unacceptable. (Though it turns out that she just moved a vote at the start of the day, it didn't actually *stick*. That wasn't exactly clear though, now was it?)
@Iffrita: I weighed your pre claim actions as well. The best I can say about my feelings on them were that they felt hollow. I'm not sure how to elaborate that because I don't entirely understand it myself. It's basically a gut read with slight reasoning.
Still, looking forward to the case on Miya. Don't forget to post other suspicions before we make a decision, though (you probably already have, just reiterating them all in one post and putting your strongest points out there would be about the most pro town thing you could do)
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##Unvote
My gut is screaming at me loudly over Xix right now, more so than any other player. He wasn't around yesterday's crucial juncture when we were making the end of day wagons, and after about 36 hours of Miya v. Iffrita we still have no idea where he stands on them. I don't like his promises of getting back to us with content after he made the same promise at the end of day 1 either, it could be hours still until we get content out of him. I'm tired of giving his lurking a free pass, and he hasn't said anything that made me feel particularly good about him.
##Vote: Xix
I agree that Miya needs to post now. Her lurking today and her early lack of a vote on Iffrita looks terrible. While I think she's more likely to be town than Iffrita, it bothers me a lot because Miya's play is far more suspicious than Iffrita's, and under normal circumstances I would prefer a Miya lynch. The things that bother me about Iffrita's claim are mostly minor slips or omissions - Had Iffrita told us no quick topic was created, we wouldn't have needed Mikhail to use his power to bring Navarus back, and there was also the minor slip where she said she visited UK last night instead of Navarus. Small errors and omissions like that make me think she is more likely to be scum than Miya. Which is a pity, because her old content was really good. I would really like for Iffrita to post updated reads based on recent posts, rather than referring us back to her opener for the day. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678362.html#msg678362) Iffrita will be my preferred lynch at deadline of the two.
-cut-
I look forward to it, Iffrita.
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Orwen: Your vote is very interesting. Anyway, how is visiting UK instead of Navarus a slip? I claimed who I was in my first post. Secondly, I think Mikhail bringing me back was logical, though it might have been a bit early. That said, she couldn't have known that I'd be able to be revived, unless Mikhail were scum (which has it's own points against her).
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Orwen: Your vote is very interesting. Anyway, how is visiting UK instead of Navarus a slip? I claimed who I was in my first post. Secondly, I think Mikhail bringing me back was logical, though it might have been a bit early. That said, she couldn't have known that I'd be able to be revived, unless Mikhail were scum (which has it's own points against her).
It's not so much a slip, as something that bothered me. I asked her for the content of the post concerning her night action, and I asked her to clarify it, because the night action response pm would never have said she visited UK's room, it would have said she visited Navarus's room. I'm actually a little surprised it said she visited anyone's room at all, since Moonin said his only told him that he failed, and it didn't tell him who he failed to neighborize.
It's more accurate to say Iffrita is more likely to be lying about her role than Miya, and thus more likely to be scum than Miya, than to say I think Iffrita is scum.
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Fair enough. I agree that it does need to be distinguished that Iffrita is likely lying about her role, and this doesn't necessarily MEAN she's scum. It's just incredibly likely given there's a HUGE scum motivation for lying about her role in this situation.
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I'm not lying about my role. :shrug: I don't know what I would have to lie about in this situation.
Huge post is almost done, but needs to be proofread. Expect it soon~
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So hey, let's talk about why Miya is classic lurkscum.
Miya #83 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675876.html#msg675876)
The amount of "you are suspicious" paragraphs thrown out here without any real clear priorities here are incredibly disconcerting in hindsight. Considering the way Miya's D1 activity levels panned out, I think that this was the action of lurkscum attempting to test the waters - when she returned, she would be able to observe how D1 had panned out, and pick a target that meshed well with the current status of the day while looking suspicious. Voting an unlikely target (me) gave her the ability to not look like a blatant wagon jumper early in the day, making it significantly more difficult for players to pin anything on her first serious post. I feel that Miya was basically using her #83 to coast by until her next post. People tend not to LALu on D1, so the only charge that could be used to bring attention to her would not actually earn her any votes.
Miya #244 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676602.html#msg676602)
More blatant setting up. Due to the nature of her #83 she was pretty much free to pick and choose which of the easy targets she mentioned earlier that she could jump on to, and she went for the two wagons with the most support at the time. One's wagon had two votes plus slight support from UK, who had previously claimed that One's flip would assist her even though she backed off of his wagon, while Just's wagon had two votes plus support from me. Both of these wagons had obvious enough cases that they were likely to gain more voters as well. The whole post was basically Miya cheering on the two wagons with the most promise of taking off while neglecting the case on her "#1 scum" (me), which makes me wonder if Miya ever truly had me as her main case in the first place. Due to the massively tied nature of that point in the day, there was still time to push her case on me and possibly open the other players' eyes up to it if it were reasonable, but she chose to give in and attack the wagons instead while neglecting to push her case on me. Playing town requires you to actually convince players that you're right about who you think is scum, and Miya made no effort to actually do this. I think that the case on me was an illusion coming from scum!Miya due to the lack of conviction she had. It was only an excuse for her to avoid looking like she was wagon jumping early in the day, and also to later attempt to hang me in a claim conflict.
Miya #291. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676881.html#msg676881) Oh boy.
I'm not going to mince words here. This post is absolutely terrible giving the circumstances of the day, and the fact that she later tried to actually claim townie cred over it because Just flipped third party is ridiculous. It also continues the trend started in post #244 of Miya failing to actually push for her preferred lynches like a townie would and instead giving into the largest wagons, which fits in quite well with scum's agenda. Indeed, scum doesn't care which players get lynched earlygame so long as the lynched players are not them. They have no real reason to care about their "main cases" beyond attempting to look townie. On D1, Miya acted as if she was lazy scum avoiding pushing her cases because she knew she could just get away with setting up hops to the big wagons and letting town do her work for her.
Aside from this, the way that Miya essentially forced Just to be the the day's lynch while people were discussing other options and she herself was considering other players as scum is awful. I would not be particularly surprised if she was covering for a member of the scum team who was being pushed as an alternate option to Just at that point. Given that Miya said she'd be back for deadline, she doesn't even have the excuse that it was her last chance to get a serious vote out before deadline.
Miya #341 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677834.html#msg677834)
I'm pretty sure that just about everybody has attacked Miya's failure to actually vote me in this post at this point, but nobody has actually thought about why scum!Miya would actually do so, so allow me to take a crack at it.
My theory is that scum!Miya wanted leeway in case my night action was easily provable. Scum knew that I ended up targeting UK last night, either through a hijacker or tracker, but they had no way of knowing what my night action actually did. If it was proven that my action was not the nightkill, then not only would scum!Miya be incapable of attacking me over this for the rest of the day, but I would probably end up becoming cleared, since scum tend not to target the players who are getting nightkilled. I think that Miya realized this and her scum nature caused her to leave her vote blank, since she knew I was town and that this was a very real possibility anyway.
While we're on the subject of this post, I think her misguided attempt to claim some townie cred was likely so she could look better if the Miya/Iffrita spat did indeed happen and the other townies bought into it. The timing there looks pretty bad to me.
Everything after her initial accusation is just blatant lurkscum play. She's putting off her posts for as long as possible watching me trip over myself and letting town clean up for her. There's no real pro-active scumhunting or pressure against me, she's just relying on the rest of the players doing her dirty work for her without actually having to get too involved in the scuffle. Seriously, look at this post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678139.html#msg678139) Almost all the points are parroted off of other players or inaccurate due to misrepping or hyperbole. She is not even pushing an actual case on me beyond ~ROLE SHENANIGANS~ anymore, which is a very easy way for scum to get players lynched without actually having to play the game and scumhunt to look town. Her actual case on me was ditched when she gave in to delicious wagonhops even though she could have attempted to push it further.
Really, Miya in general is basically an excellent example of scum deciding to lurk everything out while letting town do all the work for her. She uses her rare posts to set up room for late-day wagon jumps after town trips over itself and makes the actual cases. Not only is this scummy behavior, but it's also pretty much one of the most effective ways to play scum, and it bugs me to no end that everybody is letting her get away with it. If you don't believe me, then just look at the way this entire day has played out. How much of it is Miya pushing for her fabled ~SCUM IFFRITA LYNCH~, and how much of it is Miya sitting back while other players pile on me over derp mistakes I made, allowing her to get away with not actually doing anything? Also, her smarmy attitude is really annoying and makes me want to take QUALITY parenting lessons from Rosa. So yeah, Miya needs to be sentenced to death today.
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Other things!
@Neo Deporela: uh, why are you voting me again? Of course I'm going to end up being more reactive while Miya acts more proactive, those are our roles in the current situation. If I had suspicious role information on Miya, then she would have likely been the reactive one instead. Furthermore, I disagree that Miya has ever truly been as "proactive" as you say - she failed to actually vote me in her opening post, and after she voted me her only posts were responding to my attacks on her before she dropped off the face of the earth again The rest of your content looks pretty solid compared to Oldepore's, but your stance on the Miya/Iffrita scuffle seems rather flimsy to me.
@UK: I had considered a tracker, but then I assumed that the tracker would have been told my initial intent of targeting Moonin and that I was redirected. A watcher would have seen the person who actually did the nightkill, so a cop was the only real possibility I could think of barring a complete oddball role. Except I guess Bard doesn't use trackers that way.
@Orwen: It said Demon Navarus in the flavor, obviously. I said UK because it made the post easier to type, and also decreases my chances of the mod thinking I'm getting too close to modkill territory. They're the exact same person anyway, I'm not sure why you're looking into this. Also, I want to shank you for the amount of "Iffrita would be town if it wasn't for role shenanigans" you're posting, because role shenanigans are not a replacement for scumhunting. Augh.
My alternate picks for scum right now are Depore, whose D1 was basically a goldmine of scum intent as old!Depore basically followed the collective of opinion of the overall town on who to lynch, and Mala, who used the prodding from other players about her opinions to slowly increase her amount of end-of-D1 wagon jumps before popping out of activity altogether and hopping on the Just wagon despite not even having an opinion on Just before she was asked to.
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Ah, One! What do you think of Iffrita and Miya? With or without the claim situation.
@Miya: I actually need her to post again, her end day post was
Hey. I said I would vote for this even though I would prefer a One lynch but yaknow 4 hours or something to deadline.
I shall be back in a few hours for more talk~
Her starting post for the day did not even have a mention of me, even when she prefered a wagon on me in Day 1. Why did she just ignore me, even if she found a more worthy target, she did not even point out she remembered the wagon on me. I find this strange, since she claimed that she prefered a Lynch on me over Just, yet did not start the day with her belief on wanting me lynched. This is really suspicious, she did not even state a reason why she seems to be ignoring the fact that she wanted me Lynched in Day 1. Its as if you don't care if I get lynched or not. I do not find enough of a reason to unvote Miya.
@Iffrita: I find her quick claim really suspicious, I personally think she have hid her role alittle longer to find more information in why Miya wanted her to claim. While there is the possibility that Iffrita claimed due to the fact that she had nothing to lose.
Such a quick claim to someone who is mostly hiding around is not a good idea.
I attempted to neighborize Moonin last night, as he seemed fairly townie and I felt communication with him could potentially be helpful in pushing for a Depore lynch today. However, I was redirected to UK, and I am quite sure you can figure out how that turned out. Ugh.
Althought this post is kind of questioning. Theres the possibility Empress neighborizing to Moonin actually followed Moonin to UK, but even then its kind of suspicious how she was able to enter the room, while Moonin failed.
I'm still not exactly sure of power roles still, no one really answered me about the importance of them.
Orwen: The PM said that I lost my bearings and entered UK's room instead by mistake, but she had already been knifed when I entered her room and I wasn't able to contact her (because she was dead).
Her typing it out shows that she did not copy and paste the notice word for word, and seems to have typed it out. If you have the notice, whats the harm in copy and pasting it word for word. I find this highly suspicious as well, due to the fact that it felt as if she thought it up instead of rephrasing it.
Though I likely can not really rely on this, due to the fact that as I've said before. I do Not Understand The Importance of Power Roles. As well as the fact that UK getting or not getting it is at the Mod's Whims.
I feel forgotten and left in a ditch.
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Votecount the I Refuse To Keep Track + 1
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (3): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore
Xix (1): Orwen
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Mala (0): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Not Voting: Navarus, Xix
Bard Is Cute ( 8 )
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 19 hours and 30 minutes until Night 2.
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Princess Miya has been prodded.
@Mod: Will potential/real LYLOs and MYLOs be announced?
I'll let Bard answer this question. I'm not aware of his policy for this game.
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##Unvote
##Vote Empress Iffrita
Why can't you see that Moonin is scum? Do you not believe in the power of my divination?
My divinations tell me that you're all scum. I have to take my leave in order to perform these divinations but I should be back and posting after several hours of divining. My ability to divine may be sped up of you decide to assist me with my divinations. You all know where to find me.
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His content is acceptable when he posts, and his points are logical. I do wish he would give opinions about people outside of Miya and myself, though. I don't think his lurking has the same intent that I think Miya's does.
I don't know why you're singling me out when you seem to be the only one who actually thinks that Moonin is scum.
Did you completely ignore my case on Miya, or do you just not agree with it? I will be reasonably angry if I spent all that time researching into Miya's posts and writing about why she is scum only for nobody to actually consider my post.
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Haven't really processed the Miya case yet, should do so sometime today.
@Mala: I got my own divinationin'. Moonin's 100% town, and voting him is awful. Did you have a case or something because I don't remember one. Anyway, Mooni is town because GUT =D! :dwi:
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@Empress Iffrita #537: I'm asking everyone why they can't see that Moonin is scum. In regards to your #533 I don't have the time to parse it right now. I should be able to before the day ends though.
@Demon Navarus #538:Moonin is still scum by the way. FORM AN OPINION. IF YOU DON'T MAN UP I'M GOING TO RETRACT MY DIVINATION OFFERS FROM YOU. My #262. What was bad about it. What wasn't bad about it. Your #296. What do you think about One? Who needed to be scum in order for Depore's scumslips to be actual scumslips? What WERE Depore's scumslips in the first place? Stop sitting on the fence. In your entire Day 2 activity you've forgotten completely about the three players that you suspected throughout Day 1 in order to join in the fun activities of Princess Miya vs. Empress Iffrita. Please update your reads on One, Depore and myself and try not to sit on the fence about all three of us this time.
Why do you people not see that Moonin is trying to kill us all? How can you trust a guy with a hood on?
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Gone for real this time.
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Also!
If you were just worried about an insane cop, you probably wouldn't have thrown in your targetting.
I forgot to reply to this. I claimed my N1 target because it seemed like a convenient time to tell town about the potential Hijacker. I didn't want to claim being hijacked at the start of the day because that would confirm to scum that they hit somebody with an active night action (that, and I thought there might have been some really weird town redirecting role doing something, since my D1 play didn't exactly fit a threatening power role's). Since I ended up having to reveal my role anyway, I didn't have to worry about that anymore.
I think the way I went about talking about my target in my claimpost makes it fairly evident that I wanted to get the possibility of a hijacker out there, rather than that I thought I was tracked. Note how a third or so of the post was basically me pondering over why I got redirected.
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Moonin has been prodded.
How deadline will be affected by the recent prods will be determined by Bardiche. But keep in mind it probably will be affected.
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Bard is cute.
I'm going to go ahead and stick with the theory that since Iffritas is town without role shenanigans, and since Miya is scum barring role shenanigans, then, not taking role shenanigans into account, Iffritas is town and Miya is scum.
Q.E.D.
Cut: I'd like to know what the case on me is, as well. I trust UK's gut on this.
The Case on Miya is actually very insightful. It explains a lot behind the bad feeling I have behind her playstyle.
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Bleh, this is the second time in a row that I've been prodded while I was making a post. Should I just ask for a 30 hour prod time?
Regardless, rereading through the Miya-call out and the Iffritas' fullclaim, I don't really see how iffritas would be lying about her role. A lot of Iffritas' fumbling around, and the amount of detail she gives, I'm incline to thinking that she's telling the truth, as disjointing and strange as that truth is. Meanwhile Miya doesn't even vote despite strong scum suspicion, then waits for a day for everyone else to make the case on Iffritas. Even with my schedual, if I had role information that strongly implied someone was scum, I'd be spending a lot more time here, ISOing that person and yelling my case up and down the street. One's point that Miya has completely dropped him and voted Just, without even following up on her case on One helps prove the idea that Miya doesn't really care about lynching scum.
At this point, I realize that it sounds like I'm just using everyone else's insights to add to my own confirmation bias. I don't like halfassing posts like this, but I really don't see how anyone's going to pull out any magic insights from the Just wagon that don't involve this Miya Vs. Iffritas case today.
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There's nothing to say about Miya that hasn't been said yet because she refuses to play with us~ This day is getting stale.
So, an ultimatum. If Miya doesn't post within the hour, I'll vig her when I get back. The "Bard is cute" thing was a bluff to get her to post, but it looks like she's happy with lurking into oblivion so Bard will take more hours off our playtime.
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Eh, make that three hours.
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The "Bard is cute" thing was a bluff to get her to post, but it looks like she's happy with lurking into oblivion so Bard will take more hours off our playtime.
I still like my theory that she was pushing off posting "Bard is cute" as long as possible to see if she could force you to waste your dayvig on me, since for all she knew, she would not be a viable target if she never said the magic words.
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I admit that Miya's lurking is sad and I would not have my feelings hurt if she ate a bullet. My gut says Iffrita is the droid we're looking for, but I'll admit the facts can point towards Miya being scum on general behavior.
Miya, if you are at all town, FUCKING POST ALREADY. First, tell us why the hell you AREN'T posting. As clearly as possible. If you have to unmask yourself, so fucking be it. You're pretty much dead unless you have some damn good showing coming up. If you're scum just keep lurking so you DIE.
Moonin, have you posted your thoughts on anyone besides Miya and Iffrita? I'd be interested in who you suspect besides them.
I will say that what I got from Iffrita's claim post was that she expected she was in trouble for targetting me, even if a redirector was supposedly involved.
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Given what a lurkfest this has become, I suppose I better do my reread in full. I don't plan to do my point by point thing, just try to post a concise set of conclusions. I'll post all my thoughts when I'm done. Should take about an hour.
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Might as well ask for a fullclaim from Miya as well. Miya, fullclaim and post.
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Votecount the HAHAHA TONIGHT WENT WELL
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Iffrita (4): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore, Mala
Xix (1): Orwen
Moonin (0): Mala
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Mala (0): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Not Voting: Navarus, Xix
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 19 15 hours and 40 minutes until Night 2.
I am in an extremely pleasant mood tonight, so I'll only dock four hours for the two prods that have been sent out. I will remind players incapacitated by illness, parental units and a giant monster prowling the streets to send the mods a PM so we can be appropriately made aware of the situation. Doing so may actually absolve you of being prodded once, so it is probably A Good Idea. Unless you like short days.
Mod Note: Despite it not being mentioned in the initial rules, quoting the mod is a big no-no unless specifically permitted by the mod. In this case, any PMs sent forth by the mod may not be quoted unless the mod in question specifically permitted it.
Mod Answer: LyLo, MyLo will be announced. Potential LyLo/MyLo will not be. In a LyLo situation, it is guaranteed that lynching a Town-aligned player will end the game in favour of a non-Town-aligned team or entity. It is guaranteed that in MyLo, the same situation as LyLo applies, but not lynching is guaranteed to permit Town another Day.
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Iffrita (3): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore, Mala
Shouldn't that be four votes, not three?
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Argh...I'm literally having no luck rereading this game unbiasedly. I'm just going to state now it's Yuan/Orwen/Iffrita. You can shoot Miya if you want, but I'd vastly prefer it if you just shot Iffrita. Much as I DESPISE Miya's LOL I'M GOING TO LURK AT A CRITICAL FUCKING MOMENT BECAUSE I'M AWESOME behavior, I don't feel she's scum. I'll continue rereading, but odds are it will be confirmation biasy cases on the three I named. And you know what? I don't think I actually care anymore. Even if I'm confirmation biasy, the scummy stuff will still be there for you all to analyze, so I might as well make it easy for you to find.
For now, the cases on all three are GUT =D!
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EBWOP: I know I said earlier Yuan can't be scum with Iffrita. I'm going back on that. I may flop again as I reread. What are you gonna do about it?
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Fuck, I have to go out shopping since my dad fucking slept all day. GO DAD, WAY TO BE A FAILURE.
I really hate interrupting my train of thought like this.
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To be honest, I ... really don't have anything. My most suspicious targets outside of Miya are Xix, Depore, Orwen, and maybe Mala and Mikhail. This list is one part process of elimination, and three parts gut, but if you need a list to double check who I plan on rereading after the flip, here it is.
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@Depore: The big problem with your math is it would require us to let someone who had been rather scummy acting to live to lylo. That would be incredibly foolish. Letting her "prove her claim" would have been ludicrous, since even the proof of the claim would have put us in a situation where we had left a possible scum alive to lylo, AND to control a vote. That was simply unacceptable. (Though it turns out that she just moved a vote at the start of the day, it didn't actually *stick*. That wasn't exactly clear though, now was it?)
@Navarus: I don't think it would have been "incredibly fooliosh" to let Just live at least one or two more days because I think the Just wagon itself was "incredibly foolish" and that people probably would have noticed this by now if today didn't quickly become focused on the family infighting. Have you gone back over it yourself? Miya has the only really passable reasoning for her vote and even then the timing of her delayed switch is pretty opportunistic.
- As near as I can tell you yourself admitted your vote had no logical backing, only gut feeling (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676538.html#msg676538).
- One and Oldepore appear to cast votes in the name of newbie OMGUS and in Oldepore's case at least it seems to be paired with a side of not reading Just's posts properly.
- Mala says he "does not bother to put any further effort into his One case" despite the fact that he re-established and updated it here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676523.html#msg676523), then follows up by admitting his later posts have been solid but 'stars tell me that Just is likely to be scum' (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676720.html#msg676720). Really? This is acceptable? It's basically more gut, except trying to hide the gut behind flavor.
- And then there's Orwen's switch which is based on reasoning that wasn't applicable to Just's claim, which I've already mentioned.
Of course, this is another reasonable concern, and it's yet another reasonable concern Orwen didn't express, either at the time or at any point today since I first pointed all this out despite the fact that he's posted a couple of times since then. (For all that this seems like preaching to the choir given Orwen is one of your three picks.) STOP IGNORING ME ORWEN ;_;
@Iffrita: I realize proactive vs. reactive makes sense given she came out first, but it still feels to me like you've been playing today with the mindset of trying to make people happy, as well as a bit of damage control which I believe others have pointed out already. Obviously defenses against accusations are going to be naturally supportive of oneself but even then there's still a tone of appeasment and putting out fires.
The case against Miya's Day 1 doesn't do a whole lot to pursuade me because honestly I'd be firmly in your camp if we just ignored Day 2 altogether. :V
Miya's prolonged absence has not gone unnoticed here, by the way.
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Oh shoot I meant to delete that quote out because i only had it in there for handy reference. OH WELL
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Oh! It's actually good I left it in there because I forgot to address the role thing at the end.
Even with the non-stick mechanic of the vote ScumJust still could have used it to rush with buddies. Unless it has to be used at Hour 0 of the day, I guess, but that seems kind of completey worthless as a power.
But this is all discussing details that detract from the overall point that Orwen paid no attention to Just's justification for their claim and instead slapping down faulty reasoning for disagreeing with it.
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Ok so you want my explaination for lurking like a mofo. I got food poisoning! I was incapacitated last night, all of this morning and this afternoon wasn't a joyride either.
So I'm not just playing this, "Imma lurk oh ho ho!" or, "I'll just lurk and hold off saying "Bard is cute" bwa ha ha!" I would like anything but that since this is such a critical time for me to be active as a claimed power role vs. scum.
So if you would be generous enough to give me a few more hours. (1 or 2) I can post and respond to everything, I just want to let you all see this.
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Depore: You know what letting him live one or two more days would have done? PROVED THAT HE COULD MOVE VOTES. That doesn't mean shit, and in fact if we're going to game things, vote moving is actually a kind of scummy power! But powers aren't related to alignment so basically whatever argument you're having falls apart. It wouldn't have proven that he was unable to move them in LYLO, which is about the ONLY way his power would have been PROVABLY not a scum power. And I'm pretty sure he said that sooooooooo
@Miya: Thank you, that was helpful to hear. How well are you feeling now?
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Oh for Chrissake Miya. You had better respond to everything ASAP. There's only about 13 hours left till deadline. It's a good thing Bard seems to corroborate your story.
I suppose I'll go reread Iffrita again.
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Incidentally, Book, with Miya's reasonable explanation for her absence, I'd appreciate it if you started shooting Iffrita soon.
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EBWOP: You cut me as I posted that. Sure, reread her, that'd probably be best. But I feel *significantly* better about both my logic and my gut for Iffrita scum.
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Should I go ahead and do it? I'll admit Iffrita is shady enough to take a vig in the face, and I wouldn't mind vigging her in about half an hour.
Cut: Yeah.
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If you're going to shoot her in a half hour, I'm not going to finish my reread until I have her flip. It'd be wasteful to come to conclusions with my current strong biases only to find out one of my assumptions was completely wrong. Though so far I don't have too much that's connected, which is good since calling an entire scum team D2 with no mafia lynch is kind of awful unless it's purely individual tells
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@Moonin #556: Hate. I am retracting all offers to assist with my divination from you. I want to see your lynch tomorrow. My #262 still has not been addressed. My #471 has not been addressed. His entire activity through Day 2 has been... What was his activity? He claimed neighbourizer out of the blue. In his #458 he votes for Princess Miya due to her jumping onto the Just wagon and Conspiracy Theories: The Role Madness Edition. He follows this up with his #543 where he states that Princess Miya looks scummy and that Empress Iffrita looks townie if you don't take role shenanigans into account. THEN WHAT ARE YOU USING FOR YOUR BASIS? His next post #544 contains his case on Princess Miya which looks like it's copied from everybody else. This is because it is and he admits so himself. You say that you're unable to pull any magical insights on Princess Miya YET YOU CLAIMED THAT YOUR CASE ON HER REVOLVED AROUND EVERYTHING THAT WASN'T ROLES. EVERYTHING YOU SAID IN #544 WAS OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS ON THE CLAIMS. Why do you have a town read on Empress Iffrita? Why do you have a scum read on Princess Miya? Why do you find Xix suspicious? Why do you find Depore suspicious? Why do you find Sage Orwen suspicious? Why do you find me suspicious? Why do you find Mikhael suspicious? Why have you gone from giving Xix a pass (#104) to finding him suspicious again? Why have I dropped from being one of your three top suspicions (#296) to only maybe scummy? Why has One dropped completely from your suspicions? What happened to the suspicions of One that you were BEGINNING to regain?
I am in support of Empress Iffrita being shot. Should I bother addressing her #433 or wait until she has been shot to do so? And perhaps we can lynch Moonin afterwards?
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The only problem with Iffrita scum is that it basically shreds all my reads to pieces. Anyway, lemme get back on this.
Cut by Mala, yeah, go ahead and address whatever that is.
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We'll be lynching Yuan or Orwen after Iffrita scum flips. I have the most AWESOME CASE on Orwen coming, and I'm sure you all will be satisfied with my conclusion =3. I'll admit that I'm less sure on Yuan if Iffrita flips scum because I do remember which interactions caused me to consider it unlikely. I'll need to reexamine them.
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I would actually prefer that we don't shoot anyone until Xix gets back here and tells us his reads on Iffrita and Miya.
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I'm pretty sure Xix is going to lurk out regardless. I've been waiting for long enough and this game has gone fucking nowhere.
I'd appreciate it if Miya gave some opinions before the shot though.
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So basically I wrote up that case on Miya for no reason?
I'm a bit irritated that you are seriously considering shooting me over "I'll admit Iffrita is shady". You should be shooting scum, not a person who you think looks shady. And I already wrote a huge fucking post about why Miya is scum. But people like ignoring me, so welp. <_<
Are you even considering whether I'm a better target than Miya or not, or are you just shooting me because I "look shady"? That's fucked up. If people still don't at least consider looking into my Miya case after I flip town and she actually gets away with this bullshit, then I will rage hard postgame.
UK, who would you lynch following a town!Iffrita flip?
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Likely Miya, then Orwen. My Orwen findings so far (and they're still early), have been fairly independent of your flip. I might even propose Orwen dies first, but I admittedly feel that you flipping town would damn Miya beyond redemption.
I would presume "looks shady" means the same thing as "looks scummy", because honestly you do. I say GUT =D but your post claim behavior, which should not be discounted, reads a LOT like trying to appease the "cop" (or tracker in this case), because you know she has her number. I'm sticking to that. I'm glad Book is willing to go along with me.
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-_-
I've already explained why I dislike the way your claim came out and yes, I do think it's scummy.
I also think Miya looks pretty bad. Oh goddammit. I can postpone until Miya posts. MIYA, POST SOMETHING.
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:shrug:
Looks shady has different connotations to me. I always thought it dealt with gut rather than actual provable scumminess.
I think Miya's post-claim antics have been at least equally bad in comparision to mine. If she is not lynched to hell and back after my flip, then I will seriously have no words for this town.
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Miya, can you give an ETA on a post answering questions posed towards you? I'll admit that I think vigging sooner rather than later would be more advantageous, Book. In fact, the vig probably should have happened with at least 24 hours left in the day, but I can understand why that might have been bad. Still, the more time we have to work with the flip, the better off we are.
@Iffrita: Assuming you're town, of course. Sure, I'll push the Miya lynch through for you if you somehow flip town. I doubt this will be an eventuality I need to seriously consider.
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Iffrita, a question for you. What made you stop supporting the Just wagon at the end of day 1?
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@Empress Iffrita #433: Don't worry for I know that at least I have read this post and I do agree with most of the points raised against Princess Miya in it. If you were to flip town then I would definitely be in support of a Princess Miya lynch. However a lot of my dislike of you is how you readily you went along with Princess Miya's request to fullclaim. In addition to that I believe it to be a fakeclaim and a townie has no need for such a fakeclaim.
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OK while it's about halfway~ done I can probably finish the post in what... an hour?
No, I'm so sure Iffrita is scum that I will not blame a soul if you quicklynch me/ vig me/ anything if she flips town. (Hint: She's not)
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Can you post the first half right now?
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@UK: The smugness is completely unnecessary, moreso given that you're wrong. <_<
@Book: Well, her posts at the end of the day started "feeling like something scum wouldn't say" to me, which started making me doubt myself somewhat. I have no real idea how to explain that. What actually convinced me enough to switch was Moonin's post about Just at least claiming something confirmable. I realized that scum!Just probably would have had a lot more to gain from claiming a power that would result in a counterclaim. Scum would most likely not have too much to gain from claiming something confirmable in a game where the mod says that roles are unrelated to alignment. I also suddenly figured that stalling to keep Just alive for another night would not be too useful when her confirmable action was, as far as I knew at the time, placing a vote on somebody. Why do you ask?
The "I think Iffrita was fakeclaiming" claims are REALLY BUGGING ME because I have no idea how to refute them when I don't know why people think my claim was fake. All I can respond with is a reaffirmation that I posted my genuine role, because as you said, town has no reason to fakeclaim.
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What do you think, Book? If Miya finishes in an hour, that kind of has me rereading rather later than I'd hope...
@Iffrita: Sorry if you're offended. It's how I raise my motivation by ramping up my confirmation bias. Given it will be dispelled either way soon I feel safe doing this. As for the fakeclaim accusations, my advice would be (in general) just to acknowledge that these aren't accusations you can fight, even if they are wrong, and drop them. Letting them get to you just makes you less effective, regardless of alignment.
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Depore: You know what letting him live one or two more days would have done? PROVED THAT HE COULD MOVE VOTES. That doesn't mean shit, and in fact if we're going to game things, vote moving is actually a kind of scummy power! But powers aren't related to alignment so basically whatever argument you're having falls apart.
I don't recall ever trying to "game things" or arguing that powers are related to alignment? Are you implying I did these things or am I just misreading this ??? I only pointed out that Orwen used something completely irrelevant to Just's justification to switch from his top scum read to a confirmed non-scum. Do you disagree with this assessment of Orwen's approach to the end of the day? If so, why?
Iffrita's recent posts look more "let me live!" than "kill that guy!", which doesn't do much to endear me to her.
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Unless you mean running the numbers is "gaming things" in which case I strongly disagree that working with objective numbers is the same as trying to guess alignments based on roleclaims.
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I haven't reread it yet. That said, you're right, I'm getting caught up in the wrong argument, I apologize. I felt like you were proposing that we should have let Just live, which I don't feel would have been wise. It still was irrelevant.
I'll probably end up agreeing with your point on Orwen if I understand it properly.
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@Depore #583: #504 "You're trying to say that it Just's role was provable as a non-scum role based on the fact that LYLO/MYLO would come sooner?" I'm still wondering how we would even know whether or not we were meant to be in a proper LYLO/MYLO in the first place?
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@Iffrita: I'm looking at your end of day actions and I was just wondering why you abruptly switched away from Just. I think your explanation makes sense though.
@Navarus: If Miya is going to finish in an hour, I think the extra info from that post is worth waiting for.
It doesn't help that both of you are tossing out AtE like confetti.
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EBWOP: "You" referring to Miya and Iffrita.
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Fair enough. But don't let that hour become 2 hours...then 4 hours...then deadline.
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Yeah, if he stalls past the hour he's given, I intend to either vig him or get him lynched.
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It doesn't help that both of you are tossing out AtE like confetti.
Well obviously I'm going to be irritated if I feel like people disregarded the giant case I spent a significant portion of time writing up. <_<
This is just personal irritation, though. I'd be complaining regardless of alignment, though, because why the fuck does everybody ignore me in Mafia games.
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Might not necessarily be stalling. But I get your point.
@Iffrita: I'm sorry about that. I'm not trying to ignore you. I've been going over this situation again and again and I haven't seen anything that changes my mind.
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I'm mainly talking to Book, who came from nowhere with "yeah, I'm going to shoot Iffrita because she's shady" without even commenting on my Miya case. It come off like he's disregarding Miya as a potential target entirely unless she lurks out.
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That's a good observation I might want to look into if you do flip town.
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No, I read the Miya case, and I basically agree that Miya is the epitome of lurkscum.
As for why I suspect you, I don't think you realize how horrible your claim looks. It's hard to explain, but it just radiates sleaze.
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Oh, yay, I just learned something dismaying! I'll have more details in a bit, though it's probably obvious to anyone who has been paying attention (you know, the way I completely haven't or I would have realized this a lot sooner)
It doesn't cast anything new into the Iffrita/Miya mess though, it's just something I feel bad for neglecting because I missed it.
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All right.
So, first off, I have a neighborhood QT with Mikhail. You'll notice he hasn't posted today. He tells me that he's not ALLOWED to post after he revives someone. I missed him saying this earlier since he told me a lot of things about his role at once as well as things relevant to me. His role is actually really complex, but I see no reason to full claim it.
What he wants me to post now is: "The only things I feel strongly about is that Orwen is Scum, Xix can't be trusted to play for a town win con, Depore seems town, of Miya/Iffrita I think Iffrita is more likely the scum and should be shot."
I'll admit Mikhail influenced me to take a second look at Orwen. The thing he's saying about Xix has some interesting support, and is not a reference to his play skill (which has been rather bad)
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Of interesting note is that Mikhail is no longer in the votecounts, so that corrobates his story.
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Votecount of Votecounts
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Iffrita (4): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore, Mala
Xix (1): Orwen
Moonin (0): Mala
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Mala (0): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Not Voting: Navarus, Xix
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 12 hours and 40 minutes until Night 2.
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You know, I hadn't thought about it before, but I just realized that if I assume 3 scum then a town flip on both Iffrita and Miya with a vig shot on one would put us into MyLo.
Which is a problem because I don't have particularly strong scum reads on either of them. Heck, that's why I'm voting Xix.
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OH HEY GUYS, A BIRDIE TOLD ME I SHOULD ASK
Does shooting someone reset the votecount?
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That birdie had better not be a player or non-player.
Yes, if the amount of votes changes during the Day, the votecount is Reset.
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It wasn't. Well, it wasn't an illegal conversation, I should say.
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All right. Book, you might want to shoot ASAP with that knowledge. We need a majority to lynch and it will take 5 or 6 votes to lynch, I can't tell which without Mikhail existing anymore.
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All right. Book, you might want to shoot ASAP with that knowledge. We need a majority to lynch and it will take 5 or 6 votes to lynch, I can't tell which without Mikhail existing anymore.
On this note, I believe you took his place as a voter.
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>_>
I really want Miya to post, because I don't want the infamy of having passed over lurkscum to shoot someone who looked fairly town all of D1.
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...derp, of course. It's still 11 alive. It would be 12 if Mikhail still counted. Ok. WE'RE GOING TO NEED 6 TO LYNCH!
We need to get our asses together and decided on something. If Iffrita is town, it's a no brainer. But guess what? Odds are she's not town. We need to decide who's dying before if Iffrita is scum. I vote Orwen. I'll ISO him to add to the case.
@Book: God, I'll take the damn responsibility for being wrong. I'm pushing you to shoot ASAP, so if Iffrita flips town, it's my fault. You have shown that you want to think this through and no one can blame you for being wrong, ok?
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One makes a good point on Miya though. Iffrita was one of Miya's top scum reads through Day 1. If Miya apparently had reason to think Iffrita was scum today, why not add a vote to go along with his suspicions? I also don't like the clears on Xix and Depore and want him to explain them.
OK first of all, no One has a horrible point.
Think about it. I had thought hard and did it the best to my ability to be fair to Empress, give her a chance to explain herself if she could come up with a really good reason for having done what she did last night I may have been able to be convinced that she could be town. By not immediately voting her as scum would have without giving her a chance of explaination, I thought that what I was doing was the best way to go about it since when what she responded with became utter bullshit, I could vote and address that as such as well.
As for the clears on Xix and Depore. Xix really read to me as extremely frusterated townie when he got pushed to L-1 in the first 1/3 of the day with his responses and refer to this. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676602.html#msg676602) I already have said that people were making horrid cases on him with the exception of Empress who had a semi decent one but that no longer matters since she is scum and dropped it in favor of a weaker Depore case which was: Xix case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675906.html#msg675906), Depore Case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676250.html#msg676250). That's scummy on it's own. And when I also have another scum read pursuing someone I think is town (ONE) I think what it was was just the easy day 1 mislynch wagon to scum that failed and scum had to abort. I still think One is scum and that will come later in the post.
Depore clear was pretty basic too I swear I explained it. I once again refer back to this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676602.html#msg676602) since at the time, while she wasn't my most glowing and vibrant town read she still read more as a new town rather than new scum. By that time I already knew something was odd about Iffrita so I had to consider, Would scum really super bus each other like that on day 1 when prefered scum play is to start off with a mislynch? Fuck no. That would be stupid so that's also where part of my clear of her comes from.
Moonin: Why in the motherfucking hell is Iffrita's post claims behaviour not being considered by you?! HRRRRR I'm going to get you next post but you are scummy now.
More Family Feud.
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678300.html#msg678300) has so much wrong with just what the fuck?
First, she agrees that scum have used neighborizers in the past to make scummy voting blocks but leaves out that yes, my dear, it is a scummy action to me, regardless of what you think.
Implying stuff in a FULLCLAIM is bad, when you need to be as clear as you possibly can so there can be no misunderstandings that you can roll with later.
Then he takes a stab at the fact that, "yes the role I claimed is total bullshit. <_<"
Last line: Except when you are lying scum, because that's what you've been doing all day.
Hi One! Your 507 rolefish is noted.
Demon 522: If you can recall~ (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676602.html#msg676602) Iffrita was teh #1 scumz for reasons I couldn't put my finger but I still have to give her benefit of the doubt on the track, not starting the day busting out with a vote. Yes, One is still scum especially since Empress is, see next.
524 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678887.html#msg678887): I dislike you book for implying it's ok for someone to leave out a MAJOR part of today and what their opinions of us can be based off of.
Family Feud nothing, this is like Family brawl
Her case on me !!! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678962.html#msg678962)
First up, One, Moonin, Depore and You Empress where the only people I was throwing suspicion at in that post.
You can replace "voting an unlikely target (me)" with, someone I thought was scummy and showing my suspicions as such.
OH busted by: "I feel that Miya was basically using her #83 to coast by until her next post." You're right, there was no scum hunting or attemts to gain information to further help me catch the scum at all in that post, my bad. (No, wtf have you read it?)
Next blurb about my 244: Really, I fucking use my power that catches scum last night ON YOU. YES YOU. NOT ONE, YOU. And you have the nerve to say, it makes you wonder if I really think you are my number one scum. What?!?
Why do you think I claimed today. I was fairly sure you were scum but there is nothing solid enough that wouldn't be considered a conspiracy theory to catch you with. If I thought I could make a case on you yesterday that would make people lynch you, I would have done it. If I thought I could do today making a case on you that people would believe without a report, don't you fucking think I would have and made my self a less likely night kill since now I'm an outed power role that catches scum? Please.
291: Deadline was how long away? The trend I saw and the way I executed this action shows my thought process, "I also think this guy is scum, people have been whoo hooing the fuck off all day and I still can see no solid consolidation of ideas. I'll make the person I think is scum a wagon, since the other ones aren't happening given how long it takes for anything to take off all day." That's about all I can say about that, yes it looks terribad because I didn't get more words in edgewise before the hammer that was from L-2.
Your crack at 341 is bullshit but thanks for trying though.
No, I was doing my best to be fair and just on the slight chance you were a townie with a verifiable action but you aren't. I would not be incapable of attacking you regardless of alignment even if your power was verifiable though since if I still thought you were scum later I would have pursued it and that goes back to my explaination of why I claimed my power in the first place. (read 244 response)
Everything about me being lurkscum is take as you will about my illness claim so yeah.
I got to 533 so take this and run with it.
Next post incoming.
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There, a Miya post. She's still rereading but that's a good chunk of it >=[!
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You're not going to be alive tomorrow to take responsibility for it!
Also shooting will not only make me a death miller (which encompasses investigations while I'm alive as well) but it'll change my name.
Cut: Reading now.
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Alright, here's my problem with shooting Miya and lynching the Iffrita - I don't think either of them are particularly likely to be scum. If I go by Iffrita's play, then I would never go after her lynch. I also agree with her 533 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678962.html#msg678962), I just don't necessarily think Miya is scum if Iffrita flips town. I've considered the possibility that Iffrita was redirected by Miya and decided it seems too ballsy to try a case on redirecting a player that might not even have a night action, so Miya was definitely a tracker.
If Miya is actually a tracker, then I thought she is probably a town tracker; going with a case she had yesterday for the basis of her track makes sense. Iffrita's reasoning that scum Miya wanted leeway, however, was not something I considered at the time.
- 7 cuts -
Reading.
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What I mean to say is that BOOK CANNOT BE BLAMED FOR SHOOTING IFFRITA BECAUSE I'M URGING HIM TO DO IT. You also said the "infamy", which means that regardless of whether I live or not, I'm still the one that will take all the shit for it in postgame, ok? I'm confident I won't be wrong.
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Haven't read Miya's post yet, but:
I've considered the possibility that Iffrita was redirected by Miya and decided it seems too ballsy to try a case on redirecting a player that might not even have a night action, so Miya was definitely a tracker.
This is where the leeway comes in. She never claimed to be a tracker in her first post, just that she had reason to believe I was scum. She could have changed her story to anything she wanted, such as a cop or whatever.
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524 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678887.html#msg678887): I dislike you book for implying it's ok for someone to leave out a MAJOR part of today and what their opinions of us can be based off of.
This was in response to the following:
@Role Claim:I'm unable to help in this part, due to the fact that I do not understand the importance of role powers.
Still reading.
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Same foes for you too ya know, if you had said something outragous like "I visited Yuan," you would have been lying, so are you saying I should have claimed tracker in my first post to make your job as a fakeclaimer easier?
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Book - If there is any chance you are shooting Miya, we need her role claim. Otherwise, it can wait until after Iffrita's flip.
Are you considering shooting Miya at this time?
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Fine then. Miya, please roleclaim.
@Navarus: The reason why it's so important to me that I get this vig shot right is that regardless of what happens I am going to be flipping as scum when/if I die. I do not want to give scum the pleasure of working off my "scum" flip. Getting this shot right will help to allay that.
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Unless I'm about to take a bullet for real, I would appreciate it if I could hold off on the fullclaiming now.
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@Book: I understand what you're saying. As far as I'm concerned, your actions speak for themselves though. You've claimed several times you'd be "flipping scum". So anyone arguing with your flip as evidence will look immensely suspect. Particularly if you get NK'd. I doubt you're going to be lynched anytime soon.
Delaying much longer would make you scummier.
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What I meant is that if I don't fullclaim today I will be much more useful but if you ask me again I will.
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I see no need for a fullclaim unless Iffrita flips town. Book has the final decision though, I guess.
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Is there any more information you can give without fullclaiming?
Iffrita: Last words please.
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- Miya needs to die.
- Depore has been doing a good job of just barely skirting the issue of the family feud throughout the day.
- Mala's stance on my wagon is sketchy. I don't like how she ended up doing most of the work for Miya in terms of pressuring me, given that I think one of the main reasons Miya is scum is because she was letting the other players lynch the townies for her.
And that's about it. I don't have any suspects that I haven't already mentioned before, sorry.
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ALL RIGHT! My BEAUTIFUL ORWEN CASE IS COMPLETE!
Post 31 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675332.html#msg675332): GUT =D!
Post 74: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675833.html#msg675833) I just realized what's wrong with this post. It's a case on Mala that doesn't actually say a damn thing about why she's scummy. It reports on her actions, dresses it up a little, and then says she's scum. This is supposedly enough to keep his vote on Mala despite the everything else.
I'm also really not liking the wagon on Xix, nor I'm I fond of Mala's.
Mala's Wagon or Mala's Vote. This could look very bad and I wish I had questioned it before.
The follow up is pretty much the spreading around of suspicion everyone accused Xix of. Interesting.
Post 222: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676516.html#msg676516) The case on Mala is really bad at first, and Orwen has not really expressed suspicions outside of Mala. For a bit he was poking Xix, but even that has gone away. It reminds me a little of Just except with more town reads mixed in. The furthermore is decent, but I don't feel it's strong. I'd need to check Mala to corrobate whether she has this supposed flexibility.
Post 242: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676567.html#msg676567) Well, he had to be pressed for these, but what's notable is outside of Xix, the entire thing is a fencesit. "I wouldn't mind seeing Moonin lynched." "I think both Depore and One are scummy but maybe they are town" "I wouldn't oppose or favor Just's lynch." Even the case on Xix opens with:
I'm willing to lynch Xix. While he hasn't done anything I found particularly scummy, he hasn't doneO anything I found particularly good either.
Post 318: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676948.html#msg676948) I only cite this for NewDepore's sake. This sounds exactly like the logic I was proposing. The only thing not mentioned is the fact that it's the "this can be done in LYLO" thing that was awful.
Post 330: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677654.html#msg677654) OK, you know what? This heavily implies Orwen knew the day would end with his vote. He later denies this. I think this post alone is enough to make me want to kill him with fire. I didn't give it much thought earlier when I pressed him about it, but, no, seriously, why would you say that, Orwen?
Post 335: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677739.html#msg677739) Query, do you think Mala and Xix could be scum together?
Post 339: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677790.html#msg677790) The end of this post is just weird. It's strongly like coaching Depore. The difference between what I did and what Orwen is doing here is that I was doing it while considering her town. He's doing it while he's saying he's very suspicious of her. It feels like he's pleading for her to make good content so he doesn't have to back up his suspicions of her with a vote. Also interesting is the pressure to answer questions from someone he considers scum. Did you think at that time Mala and Depore could be scum together?
Post 421: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678134.html#msg678134) This is the post that makes 330 awful, for reference.
Next few posts are basically questions that *look* townie but honestly add nothing to the table. It looks like fluff.
Post 528: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678922.html#msg678922) This is also a pretty awful post. The random switch to Xix and sudden fencesitting on Miya and Iffrita is pretty much how he could be scum with Iffrita. (He can still be scum with Miya as well).
Post 570: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679227.html#msg679227) This is bad for stalling the vig. In fact, posts stalling the vig in general are slightly scummier now that we know the votecount is reset on a vigging. But the reason is especially interesting. The newfound obsession with Xix to the exclusion of the lynches that are actually going to happen is bad. It allows him to easily avoid giving an opinion on any more developments in MiyaxIffrita.
There are a lot of words and I honestly wanted to avoid PBPA, but the basics of it are that Orwen, outside of Mala (who he never had that strong a case on), has been fencesitting on just about everyone he has ever mentioned. Now that he's committed to Xix, he's done it at a time where it's completely unlikely to happen. I'm actually kind of wondering if XIX is his buddy, not Yuan. Basically, Orwen has looked pretty but the meat of his posts is very lacking.
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Umm, I already told (?) you that I am somewhat of a tracker and that is indeed what I did last night. That much for sure that you can all know but I would like to hold off on the rest~
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ALSO! If Miya somehow ends up being town of all things, then Depore looks a lot worse. Only lightly touching the issue without getting their hands too dirty is how I imagine scum would react to a town/town claim conflict.
Cut twice but I wanna get this out before I get shot.
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Also, Iffrita, Orwen has been doing the same thing. Why not mention him?
@Iffrita: Orwen also looks significantly more awful, not that he needs help with that.
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I kind of forgot about Orwen. He hasn't had much of a presence today.
I think Depore's D1 was worse, but if something crazy happens like Miya flipping town, then I think all the people who looked like they were trying to avoid the conflict should be put under heavy scrutiny. This goes for Xix as well.
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Also, I haven't read your case yet. I'm in a rush to post these things because I would rather not get cut by my death.
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I am feeling Xix more as well through Orwen's interactions (I KNOW, BAD NAVVY, WORKING OFF SCUM PAIRS). I'll have to compare him to Yuan though.
@Iffrita: I understand. The thing at the end summarizes most of it
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Navarus earned the ire of the mods and has been struck down by lightning. His modkill resets the votecount an--
Wait, wrong post. I meant to post this.
Votecount of Votecounts
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Iffrita (4): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore, Mala
Xix (1): Orwen
Moonin (0): Mala
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Mala (0): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Not Voting: Navarus, Xix
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 12 hours until Night 2.
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Mikhail is effectively a non player. I guess on the off chance he comes back, I feel he's townie.
-
You know what? Iffrita's posting is feeling a lot like a townie trying to get that last opinion out.
Miya: Fullclaim please.
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@ Demon Navarus - I'll be responding to you case on me tonight, but I would like your read on Mikhail. You have a ton of vital information on him that town doesn't have, and I would like to hear your read on him.
-
You have a quick topic with him, and you've mention it when making your reads. I'd like something more concrete than that, since you are a confirmed townie, and the only townie here that has any real information on him.
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If I'm wrong about Miya, I expect to take the full blame for it.
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That was kind of the vibe I was getting too but...you do realize she has nothing to lose doing this as scum, right? And everything to gain?
@Orwen: Responded to above you. Also, I'm holding that post against you since it reads a lot like "SHIT, she's on to me. Distract, distract!" As for more concrete stuff, his reads have flowed rather well, I've told you where he's currently at.
@Book: You're wrong about her. Just listen to me!
-
My read on Miya is because she's been posting like she expects to be confirmed town from this debacle! I doubt that scum would do that unless she's SUPERBUSSING Iffrita, which would make no sense!
-
@Navarus: Did you read Miya's latest post? Personally, I thought it was rather lackluster.
Cut. Omfg. Alright, let me think about it. I'll vig in 5 minutes because I want to be over with this already.
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Miya: Last words from you too. Don't claim if you don't want to, but I want :words: from you.
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Fair enough. But I'm OFFICIALLY putting UK protection on Miya. I don't want her lynched or shot and I have no idea how I'll enforce this but I'll defend anything you throw at her.
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Oh my God
Hi I'm just a silly little Child~
But don't mistake me, I'm royalty!
I have the powers that I can either start off with a track or a watch and then I MUST alternate between them. I figured I would track n1 someone I thought was scum (ha) and try to figure out who the next nightkill would be after how scum chose the n1 kill with my watch for night 2.
If I wasn't nerfed like I previously mentioned I would be spamming the shit out of watch, which I consider the more powerful tool, especially now that it is a bit moot for me to effectivly use it tonight since now the scum know I have watch too.
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My read on Miya is because she's been posting like she expects to be confirmed town from this debacle! I doubt that scum would do that unless she's SUPERBUSSING Iffrita, which would make no sense!
Wait, what? What do you mean by that? I'm honestly not seeing it.
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OK, you see how I've been posting? For much of today, there was a lot less motivation then I had earlier, with a hint of smugness. I'm getting that vibe from Miya. She has that smugness and a certainty that she'll be OK as long as Iffrita is killed. If I had more time I'd throw examples at you but we NEED to resolve this.
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Cut by claim. Hmm.
Thoughts on other players, Miya?
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That would, however, be extraordinarily helpful, Miya. Don't be like Depore and make me waste my presence here!
-
OK, you see how I've been posting? For much of today, there was a lot less motivation then I had earlier, with a hint of smugness. I'm getting that vibe from Miya. She has that smugness and a certainty that she'll be OK as long as Iffrita is killed. If I had more time I'd throw examples at you but we NEED to resolve this.
Alright, I think I know what you mean. Waiting on Miya before I decide.
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Votecount of F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Iffrita (4): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore, Mala
Xix (1): Orwen
Moonin (0): Mala
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Mala (0): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Not Voting: Navarus, Xix
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 11 hours and 40 minutes until Night 2.
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My big post felt lackluster?
OK last words:
-watch fucking ONE. Empress defended him like a mofo day 1 and I would link back now but I can't
-Xix I'm not too sure on right now so watch him
-Yuan does NOT feel like Mai from the other anon mafia and I've been seeing her as town, take that as you will
-I agree there is something wrong with Sage but I don't know what yet.
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ლ(?ロ?ლ) ლ(?ロ?ლ) ლ(?ロ?ლ) ლ(?ロ?ლ) ლ(?ロ?ლ) ლ(?ロ?ლ)
That is about the waffliest last opinions post ever.
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Ugh.
I really didn't want to do this because I didn't think scum needed to know, and especially after talking about not "gaming things", but part of the reason I think Iffrita is lying is because I think Moonin's neighborization failure was due to being roleblocked rather than because UK died. I say this because Oldepore tried to take an action last night on someone that didn't die and was blocked, and the block message was flavorless, like Moonin's.
Again, hate gaming things, but I've had a hard time ignoring this.
-
Depore: You do realize that Moonin's role says communication will cut off if his neighbor dies, right?
-
redux
-one is scum
-Xix is no longer a town read
-Yuan is a town read
-Sage is scummy
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It's about what I'd expect from who I think Miya is. But I shouldn't use evidence like that.
@Depore: That's not really gaming, that's using your role. Also, I was in the wrong when I said that, sorry.
Though are you proposing there are two roleblockers in the game?
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Miya: Opinion on Depore please. I find her your most likely partner if you are scum.
-
Also, calling a Miya/Depore scumteam now. Depore would have been the hardest person for a wagon to form on when Miya voted Just during D1 (because both people voting Depore were going to be around for deadline), and Miya denounced the Depore case at the same time she voted for One. The way that Depore just essentially rushed in to save Miya makes me fairly confident about this.
Cut by like 3 people.
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(i.e. I think this means Iffrita's block flavor is made up because I think the roleclaim, or at least the action claim, is made up)
Cut: Moonin said his action failed, not that he lost a connection.
Cut again: UK, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a town roleblocker and a scum roleblocker.
-
Third pick, if I had to guess, would be an oddball player not having much of a presence in the game, like Orwen or Yuan.
-
Also Christ how are people apparently claiming three different neighborization roles in this game.
-
Mala is another option for third, forgot
-
At least we all can agree on Orwen, right =D?
@Book: Well, at least you know Mihkail's is legit since I'm, yanno, confirmed town. And it's a function of his revive so.
-
Also, note how Miya said she had a case on Moonin coming up in her big post but there's no mention of him in her last words.
-
Waiting on Miya's opinion~
Navarus, do you still support an Iffrita vig over Miya?
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I didn't claim a neighborization role. I'm not revealing anything other than the fact that Oldepore took an action last night and got blocked. No one needs to know any more.
-
I've come this far, so yes. And honestly, if she's town, we've basically caught two scum for how MiyaxDepore seems to be going. Honestly, I feel that Miya is suffering from a lack of typographical elegance at this point.
-
...
...
Ok, I can't tell you, if you can find probable cause to pursue her I implore you to do, don't stop just because I flip town.
I still think she's town.
Personally I'm scared now, I would prefer if UK protection didn't hold Book to endgame since the scum flip from her is making me think she is just a scum vig. I mean it's not the fact that she's shooting me, it's that it feels like she's waiting as long as possible to shoot a townie.
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Votecount of "Need a Votecount on Page 23"
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Iffrita (4): Yuan, Navarus, Miya, Depore, Mala
Xix (1): Orwen
Moonin (0): Mala
Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail
Mala (0): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Not Voting: Navarus, Xix
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 11 hours and 10 minutes until Night 2.
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@Depore (The neighborization roles are Iffrita, Navarus, and Moonin).
Cut by Miya. ... No, fuck you.
-
Book: Oh, sorry. Been focused on something else but trying to keep track of this too.
And that just ended anyway, so!
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Well, I won't be around to enforce it for long anyway. My protection to Book only extends to things regarding his vig shot. If you find dirt on him otherwise, have at it.
Also, I apologize if you feel insulted by my saying you lack typographical elegance, Miya. I mean that in the sense that you're under a lot of pressure and it's hard to post well.
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No, fuck you my dear for implying that I would lie about getting sick just to AtE earlier.
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No, I understand what you meant no hard feelings UK.
-
Oh fuck you all. I'm taking a long break from mafia after this,
UK, I'm trusting you on this. If I'm wrong about this please chew me out in the post-game.
##Chronicle Empress Iffrita
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Bleh.
You had all better lynch Miya ASAP. <_<
-
I guess we'll see what happens, though the bah post makes my heart plummet. I'm sorry if I was wrong.
-
You're not~
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Stop changing my avatar and post the results fuxdammit. :V
-
Usually scum have no reason to lie after the command is submitted. Her reaction seems townie. I got overconfident, probably. But it's best to wait for the flip.
-
Oh, you're the new Book, aren't you?
-
The collective stood, arguing and discussing over who was least supportive of Chaos, and who deserved to be tied to a noose and sentenced to life in Thanatos.
Then suddenly, all voices fell quiet. An ominous light glimmered in their midst... and it was an energy they all knew and feared.
Where had previously been the Book, passionately arguing its love for bardiches and how adorably cute they were (a sentiment a few begrudgingly mirrored), stood now a young child.
But this child was none other than Caladbolg, the ruler of all Chaos over even the Regis.
"You all think this is some kind of game?" His question went unanswered. Caladbolg hung his head.
A deathly tension was in the air, and none dared speak. None but Caladbolg.
"I see. So that's how it is. You will remain silent even as I show myself? Even as I condemn you, you will not speak?!" His voice raised into a furious yelling.
Then, suddenly, he lifted a palm. He snapped his fingers. And laughed.
A great maelstrom of energy blasted into the collective, causing various members to duck away or shield themselves.
The only one who did not... was Empress Iffrita. She stared wide-eyed at the beams of energy shooting about. The beams of energy destroying the castle. The beams of energy that seemed to aim for her, missing her only by an inch.
But I... above all, I am the Empress of Chaos! She could not stand and watch this unfold. The Empress moved. The only sound was that of surging energy, and the clacking of Iffrita's heels on the marble floor.
There was no hesitation. No more pause. "Though I tried to destroy Chaos, I only wished to rebuild," she mumbled, her words causing eyes already wide to go even wider. "But I shall not stand for such wholesome destruction!"
Caladbolg cared little. Caladbolg simply laughed as his rays continued to whirl around her.
"I engage now the duties attributed my rank." Iffrita raised an artifact of magical strength. It surged. A blinding flash.
When everyone could see again, Iffrita stood silent as a statue. Then she crumbled, and her crumbs crumbled, until she was nothing more and had disappeared forever. In her final act, she remembered what she lived for. If only she had applied that to the rest of her life.
Caladbolg erased the existence known as Empress Iffrita, the Faithful Empress.
The votecount has been reset.
You have 11 hours until Night 2.
Book of the Past has been killed.
Caladbolg has replaced Book of the Past.
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FUCK YES
UK, I'm sorry for everything.
Also, I officially suck at mafia.
-
OH GOD DAMN YOU BARD TROLLING MY ASS!
FUCK YES! UK GUT WINS FUCKING AGAIN!
##Vote Orwen
Let's go, get this show on the road!
@Book: You don't suck, it was a tough decision. I wasn't as sure as I was acting. I'm glad you trusted me. We can win this.
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Sorry, I forgot the part where I was Death Miller when I posted my fakeclaim.
(genuine bah post now)
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Oh, and yeah, I'm Book. :V
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Screw you Iffrita. :V
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##Vote: Sage Orwen
Yep.
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Alright, I'll be back in a few hours. Taking a break from this for a bit.
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Hrm...I'm in a tough spot here. I need to go to bed soonish (one or two hours). I will likely be up an hour before deadline, but I'm not sure I can get the thoughts I want to get out out there. A reread feels honestly torturous at this juncture.
My calls based on memory right now are Orwen scum, Yuan/Xix scum. Miya is pretty close to confirmed town, as is Book. They're not COMPLETELY confirmed, but they're good enough so you'll want to think seriously before putting out a big case on them.
@Calad: I wish I could. My heart is practically exploding here.
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##Vote Xix
Question: Would you like me to fullclaim now?
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Hrm...Depends. You're at L-4 if I have the count right (10 alive, 6 to lynch). But, you're basically the strongest wagon right now and the longer I have to analyze your claim the better. I don't know of any other strong candidates. Anyone else want to volunteer?
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Votecount of I Should Dock 5 Hours For Making Me Revise Flavour Twice
Orwen (2): Navarus, Depore
Xix (1): Orwen
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 11 hours until Night 2.
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Miya - town
Book - town
Mikhail - town, probably, judging by the way he ressurected Orwen to dig up dirt on Iffrita.
Xix - I think he's scum. He's an incredibly notable non-presence, which is a liability to town time wise due to his heavy lurking, and he has no opinions out about the events of the past 48 hours. The few posts he does have out are mediocre at best. I think he would also be a viable lynch, Navarus.
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You have about 10 minutes until Night 2.
WAIT A MINUTE!
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While I'm thinking about it, in terms of other people, that flip makes me feel a bit better about Mala and a bit worse about One, due to presence and wagon placement. As much as the Miya and Iffrita wagons were different from normal wagons after the decision was left to a vig shot.
Last post for a while. Might not be back before deadline, it depends on how timings shake out. At the most, I won't be around for more than a few minutes, and that'll come in about 7 hours. (Yay sleeptime running toward deadlines.)
Cut by a post that says 10 minutes to deadline that I'm hoping is a mistake. D:
STOP CUTTING ME YOU JERKS
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Whoops, I meant 10 hours.
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What happened to your Mala suspicion, Orwen?
@Bard: IT WAS 11 HOURS 15 MINUTES AGO!
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Mala's been hinting at an ability that activates when she's targeted. Now that I think about it, I want that ability tested now. Moonin claims to have a neighborizor which he could do it with, and Miya has a watcher. I actually like her a lot more now than the day began, and Moonin a bit less. Furthermore, Mala really pushed for the Iffrita lynch when she didn't need to, and her cases have been improving, so I don't want to go after her at this time.
-
Anyway, I've posted my case on Orwen here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679340.html#msg679340). I ask a couple questions in it too. I wouldn't mind him responding to it. I'd also appreciate it if you decide to vote him, you try to add something. That said, I'd really rather just have a lynch ASAP so we don't end up losing our momentum due to deadline fail.
I'll reread Xix and Yuan, though I honestly am feeling Yuan a lot less with the Iffrita flip. She basically counterclaimed Iffrita before Iffrita was completely doomed (though I'll need to check that)
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Oh, a teaser! When I was doing my reread I found these under Iffrita:
Post 64: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675800.html#msg675800) I point out this post in particular since my confirmation bias says that she knew that L-2 would be dangerous for town. Interesting, ne?
Post 69: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675819.html#msg675819)This gives me awful gut vibes with a potential tie to Xix as a bonus.
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To answer your questions:
I apologized for ending the day early because when I made my vote, I didn't realize I would end the day early. I thought it was only L-1.
It's possible for Mala and Xix to be scum together, but when I think about it I'm not sure that scum buddy Mala would push scum buddy Xix to L-2. If Xix is scum, Mala is less likely to be scum.
It is possible for Mala and Depore to be scum together, but I don't have a scum read on Depore. In fact, at the time I wanted Depore to quash my doubts about her; I got the impression that she was new town. It was for reasons related to my role that are no longer applicable in light of the Iffrita flip.
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I'M DRUNK.
COHERENT THOUGHTS, NOT FORMING.
SO UM, BLATANT SHEEPING OF OBV TOWN UK.
Vote: Orwen
11 HOURS UNTIL LYNCH MEANS I'M NOT GONNA BE AWAKE AT DEDLINE
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Screw it, fullclaiming. Yuan, stick around long enough to decide whether or not you believe the claim.
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WORDS WRODOS WORDS?
MORE WORDS?>
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Post 73: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) The most interesting thing about this post is the reliance on Iffrita to avoid claiming.
Post 89: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675916.html#msg675916) Query: Was Moonin worse than every voter on your wagon? Why?
Post 196: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676470.html#msg676470) Query: Do you still find Moonin Town? Mala scum? Anyone else on your wagon scum?
Post 331: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677670.html#msg677670) I know damn well I asked this before but don't recall getting an answer. Why Mala over Depore?
Post 348/349: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677873.html#msg677873) This 16 posts later after you're "leaning scummy" on Depore is really freaky and inconsistent. Why do you not see a case on Depore but think she's scummy?
Post 356: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677900.html#msg677900) Am I correct in assuming this says that Miya and Iffrita are both town? And that you took them at their word?
And fluff for the rest. Xix, I want to see a post from you detailing reactions to what the hell just happened, and answering each one of these questions. I lean scum but it's still fixable.
Cut by Orwen: I don't believe you on one, but I don't think you could make me think otherwise. For two, all right. And for three, with Iffrita's flip do you think Depore is scum?
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Also, reading Yuan next. I know you're busy but it looks really awful that you're unable to contribute anything beyond sheeping now. Not much I can do about that with the drunkenness though.
-
Also, reading Yuan next. I know you're busy but it looks really awful that you're unable to contribute anything beyond sheeping now. Not much I can do about that with the drunkenness though.
WAZZAT? CONTRUBUTE?
WELL, I WOULD IF, YOU KNOW, THE WORDS MADE SENSE.
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Once per night, I can send my fans to hinder another player's night actions. This includes night kills. Last night I sent them after Depore. I didn't want to block Mala if she had a power that could be confirmed, and I had a gut feeling about Depore I wanted to quash. Since there was a night kill, that means Depore didn't commit it. Obviously this means significantly less now that we found the scum that did the night kill.
As an alternative, I can instead talk at night. This is instead of the roleblock, and as a condition I am forbidden to talk about my non-night talk powers at night, or else I lose all my powers and I start the day with a vote on me from my fans.
-
JESUS FUCK HOW DO YOU HAVE 54 POSTS!? YOU ONLY POST LIKE THREE HOURS OUT OF EVERY DAY!
Post 116: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676086.html#msg676086) Oh, ok, Yuan isn't scum.
No, I'm mostly serious. I'll still read but that's enough to raise my opinion of her considerably.
Yuan, do you still think Moon is Iffrita's partner? Also, do you still think One or Orwen is Iffrita's partner? Also, why the fuck do your first posts look suspiciously similar to the logic I'm toting now? WERE YOU RIGHT BEFORE IT WAS COOL D:?
Do you think Depore and Mala are still scum?
(Yeah, I know, these aren't likely to get answered until D3, but I think they'll be helpful)
Post 377: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678053.html#msg678053) So, yeah, Yuan is town if you didn't believe me before.
She's the FIRST VOTE on Iffrita when the Miya wagon was gaining steam.
Also, she has points on Depore that make Depore more likely town (if we really needed to ask)
@Orwen: We do not know if Iffrita did the NK
While she was tracked to me, she could have done the action she said she did, or any other myriad of role actions. It IS likely she killed me though.
So basically you're a roleblocker/Night talker. Not very impressive either way.
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DON'T BELIEVE IT.
SOWWY~
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^ I MEAN TEH CLAIM
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Iffrita was seen by Miya going to Navarus's house AND she flipped scum. Are you suggesting the possibility that two scum visited you last night, Navarus?
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DON'T BELIEVE IT.
SOWWY~
You know that Depore has confirmed that she was roleblocked last night, right?
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Iffrita was seen by Miya going to Navarus's house AND she flipped scum. Are you suggesting the possibility that two scum visited you last night, Navarus?
THIS SOUNDS LIEK AN ATTACK, DESINGEDS TO DEFLECT ATTENTIOKN.
DID UYO FROGET THAT UK IS CONFRIMED TOWN?
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THIS SOUNDS LIEK AN ATTACK, DESINGEDS TO DEFLECT ATTENTIOKN.
DID UYO FROGET THAT UK IS CONFRIMED TOWN?
I did not forget that UK is confirmed town. I am pointing out that it is highly unlikely two scum would visit UK in one night if one of the scum performed the night kill.
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Hrm...I'm going to mostly stop posting for tonight, unless something REALLY important comes up. I'll try to be up tomorrow to enforce any wagons I need to but it'll be rough.
I leave you all with a list.
Towniest Town to Ever Town:
Demon Navarus
Town:
Caladbolg
Yuan
Princess Miya
Mikhail (not that he counts much)
Probably Town:
Depore
Prophet Mala
Neutral:
One
Moonin
Probably Scum:
Sage Orwen
Xix
I post these not with full UK certainty but just my general thoughts from the Iffrita flip, my memories, and my ISOs. The best thing you all can do is not blindly sheep anyone but to do full analyses yourself. The ONLY way you're going to lose in this situation is apathy, and this town has a lot of lurkers. DON'T LET YOURSELVES LURK THIS GAME TO A LOSS! No Townies have been lynched or vigged. If I'm right about Orwen, we'll be keeping that record up. DON'T LET THE SCUM SLIP PAST YOU WHILE YOU'RE PATTING YOURSELVES ON THE BACK. You can have a perfect game if you want it. I want you ALL to make sure you push yourselves to grab it. If I hadn't picked up my motivation, Miya would be dead right now. You can see how important effort is. Now put in your own, everyone.
@Orwen: Roleblock + kill. Protect Remover + kill (it's a role I've seen before). Role Cop + kill. tl;dr, there are a LOT of possibilities.
Mod: Can you confirm if scum can use a power and kill at the same time? (I expect they can but you never know. I also don't expect to actually get answered but worth a shot)
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Not sure how long I can stick around here. Divination is very taxing and when one devotes her life to it, one must be ready to respond to the call at any time.
I still dislike Moonin for reasons that I stated in #567. There isn't much else I can say about Moonin other than the fact that he is still not posting ANY opinions at all.
Sage Orwen's profiling of roles has been noted. I will post my thoughts on Sage Orwen at a later time. (It should still be before deadline unless it gets reduced even more)
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Yeah, I'm unhappy with Moonin too. What he did put out there...well, I thought it was good. While I'm here flagrantly breaking my promise, I'll ISO him. Should be short.
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Mod: Can you confirm if scum can use a power and kill at the same time? (I expect they can but you never know. I also don't expect to actually get answered but worth a shot)
We cannot give you a yes or no answer to this question.
(worth a shot)
orz
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To answer Navarus: I don't like the nature of new Depore's attack on me on the basis of my vote switch, and I don't like Old Depore's lack of content. Suspicious.
Current reads:
Orwen - town
Mikhail - town
Book - town
Miya - town
One - Neutral
Mala - neutral
Depore - suspicious
Moonin - suspicious
Yuan - suspicious
Xix - scummy
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To answer Navarus: I don't like the nature of new Depore's attack on me on the basis of my vote switch, and I don't like Old Depore's lack of content. Suspicious.
Current reads:
Orwen - town
Mikhail - town
Book - town
Miya - town
One - Neutral
Mala - neutral
Depore - suspicious
Moonin - suspicious
Yuan - suspicious
Xix - scummy
NICFE READS SUCM
HOW LOMNG IT TOAKE UOU TO FAKE THOSE?
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...That doesn't even make sense. What do you mean, fake my reads?
I EAMN YOU MADE THEM UP.
YUR SSCUM.
SCUJM DOESN'T NEED TO ROEAD THE GAME, THEY POST FAKE TUEADS.
I'VESA NOT SEEN A LICK OF JSUTIFICATION FROM YOU FOR UR RADS~
Kiro's Edit: Fixed some real/anon account mixups.
-
NICFE READS SUCM
HOW LOMNG IT TOAKE UOU TO FAKE THOSE?
...That doesn't even make sense. What do you mean, fake my reads?
-
I EAMN YOU MADE THEM UP.
YUR SSCUM.
SCUJM DOESN'T NEED TO ROEAD THE GAME, THEY POST FAKE TUEADS.
I'VESA NOT SEEN A LICK OF JSUTIFICATION FROM YOU FOR UR RADS~
My town reads are for obvious reasons, and as for the players I find suspicious: I've explained my Mala read. Xix has no content, in spite of promising it repeatedly, I actually can't remember anything from you today besides role speculation. Moonin isn't around at all, and was on the wrong end on Iffrita. And I don't like Depore's attack against me on the basis of my vote switch, and found early game Depore to be very weak on content.
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My town reads are for obvious reasons, and as for the players I find suspicious: I've explained my Mala read. Xix has no content, in spite of promising it repeatedly, I actually can't remember anything from you today besides role speculation. Moonin isn't around at all, and was on the wrong end on Iffrita. And I don't like Depore's attack against me on the basis of my vote switch, and found early game Depore to be very weak on content.
THAT'S CUASE YOU'RENONT READOINIG~
WANA KNOW WHY YPIR:E NOT REAINDG?
CAUSE YOU':RE SCUM.
BUT YOU ALRKEYADT KNEW THAT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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THAT'S CUASE YOU'RENONT READOINIG~
WANA KNOW WHY YPIR:E NOT REAINDG?
CAUSE YOU':RE SCUM.
BUT YOU ALRKEYADT KNEW THAT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let me rephrase that - you haven't contributed anything of value today, besides role speculation. Obvious points about a town book read, a vote for Iffrita, and almost nothing on the other players.
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Post 104 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676005.html#msg676005): I'm less saying this is scummy and more bringing it to everyone's attention. He drops One, votes Depore (who's probs town), and supports Iffrita.
And that's a lie, because I would never bandwagon a case that was mostly "My gut is aching so hard" Unless I had a cop result that Nava-chan was town. If people could restate their cases clearly, that would help.
WHAT ABOUT NOW =D? WILL YOU BANDWAGON WITH ME TO SWEET VICTORY =D?
Post 296 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676897.html#msg676897): Uh, the suspicions part of this post looks like Orwen's Guide to Playing Mafia 101. This post was proposing Depore+One+Mala, right?
Post 400: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678106.html#msg678106) I just remembered this. This looks good at first, it's "counterclaiming" scum...then...
Post 412: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678124.html#msg678124) And this post proposes Iffrita is town (Me and UK and Iffrita mason/town voting block). So why did you claim?
So, I could have sworn Iffrita ran with Moonin's claim at one point saying it SUPPORTED her, but I can't find it right now. If anyone can find this, consider it part of my case.
Post 458: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678199.html#msg678199) This is weird in that it goes in two different directions at once. It says Iffrita is probably town, votes Miya, and then proposes they could both be scum. I hate this post immensely. Oh, it also put Miya to L-2.
OK. You can put Moonin in a bad neutral. His posting D2 has been lackluster and strongly Pro Iffrita for ???
I want him to contribute before deadline.
@Orwen cut: What about Depore's interactions with Iffrita? Why is Yuan suspicious despite not only voting Iffrita out of nowhere yesterday but ALSO literally being the first on her wagon today and sticking to it? She even counterclaimed Iffrita. I don't feel your reads are at ALL considering Iffrita's flip, and I find that really odd for you, especially knowing who you are.
You seem to be throwing dirt on everyone attacking you that's not me. That's interesting itself.
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Yeah, yanno what? Orwen's attempt to copy UK Tactics feels REALLY ungenuine. Kill with fire pl0x.
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@Navarus - Feeling really flustered right now. I did not expect scum Iffrita, and to be honest, I have absolutely no idea what I think of everyone in light of Iffrita's flip yet. I usually have more time to process these things - one of the many benefits of having a night phase between scum lynches. I need to reprocess them with the new information in mind.
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Yeah, yanno what? Orwen's attempt to copy UK Tactics feels REALLY ungenuine. Kill with fire pl0x.
Wait, what? You attack the people that target you?
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Because I totally know how to switch accounts, honest:
Usually. This game I didn't and look at that, I actually caught scum.
But last game I was all over PX and Dormio mostly for calling me scum. Hell, I even attacked Kiro for it. It's pretty much become a joke that voting UK is the easiest way to get her to suspect you.
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[20:34] * Bardiche (Quit: ##Chronicle: Shadomeh, also reduce deadline by two hours for that, Kiro.)
[20:34] <Kiro> sure thing boss
Disclaimer: I'm not actually reducing deadline.
Votecount of Co-Mod Disobeying Bard's Quit Message
Orwen (3): Navarus, Depore, Yuan
Xix (1): Orwen
Not Voting: Caladbolg, Moonin, Xix, Mala, Miya, One
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 9 hours until Night 2.
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I'm going to bed. I'll be back in time (assuming the deadline is 8 and a half hours away).
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What the fuck. I get back from spending some time (two days :\) with my family (I should spend less time on the computer, but :V) and I find scum dead and a
new replaced character. Getting to answering.
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Post 73: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675832.html#msg675832) The most interesting thing about this post is the reliance on Iffrita to avoid claiming.
Post 89: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675916.html#msg675916) Query: Was Moonin worse than every voter on your wagon? Why?
Post 196: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676470.html#msg676470) Query: Do you still find Moonin Town? Mala scum? Anyone else on your wagon scum?
Post 331: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677670.html#msg677670) I know damn well I asked this before but don't recall getting an answer. Why Mala over Depore?
Post 348/349: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677873.html#msg677873) This 16 posts later after you're "leaning scummy" on Depore is really freaky and inconsistent. Why do you not see a case on Depore but think she's scummy?
Post 356: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677900.html#msg677900) Am I correct in assuming this says that Miya and Iffrita are both town? And that you took them at their word?
And fluff for the rest. Xix, I want to see a post from you detailing reactions to what the hell just happened, and answering each one of these questions. I lean scum but it's still fixable.
Cut by Orwen: I don't believe you on one, but I don't think you could make me think otherwise. For two, all right. And for three, with Iffrita's flip do you think Depore is scum?
Answers first.
1) That was me posting on what I thought of the posts that cut me as I read them
2) Moonin is still my best choice, since he still has yet to speak of anything, despite the fact that he was here when I voted for him. Active lurking, maybe?
3) Lemme read their posts and get really caught up.
4) My case was on Mala was on her D1 activities, and she didn't look better to me with the flips at the time. Depore promised content, so I was waiting for something from her. Then promptly got rewarded with a replacement.
5) Mala was telling Depore to reply to her case that I linked. I looked at that post and she went from "Depore? Not a priority. :words: Nvm, she's scum", but nothing that looked like a case. I was just informing her that the "case" that she was using against Depore wasn't much a case at all.
6) I fully expected Miya to claim Tracker, so Iffrita's claim taken at face value was believable. Also, posts made at 1:30 in the morning, I should really stop doing that.
Meanwhile, let me catch my bearings with what happened. Also, I'm done messing around with my family so SLEEPLESS NIGHT GO! I'LL BE HERE FOR HOURS!!!!!
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Fantastic~ <3 (look, my cute deminour came back!!!)
Can you tell us who is scum and why? Ufu
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These are Iffrita's only interactions with Orwen.
Where he goes from, he can't particularly fault (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677519.html#msg677519)
to
I forgot about him (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679348.html#msg679348)
to
Miya's buddy could be an arbitray player like Orwen (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679391.html#msg679391)
because I don't know if you know this but Yuan is really town.
Which leaves me with the conclusion that his last ditch effort to distance from his buddy was that above. Pairing him with an an oddball that looks really townie in hindsite was an extremely easy move to make them look like an easy pair of townies that we shouldn't touch. I can so get on this lynch.
##Vote: Sage Orwin
Simply because,
A. the manpower to lynch One or Moonin does not look likely with the way this game has been going
B. Orwin looks really suspicious to me with his whole play and doesn't feel right (yay ufu, Miya gut)
C. We do not need a God damn nl to end this day and I do not trust myself to wake up on time with an illness, (imagine)
D. UK's wonderful case is agreeable.
If I get up on time I will try to get One and Moonin reads out,
Remember that One was defended by Iffrita all day 1.
Moonin didn't even want to consider post claim shenanigans, which made up a lot of Iffrita's scum play if you missed it. Right down to the end she still thought I could be town which is lolwut? But she flipped scum so I'll take it with a grain of salt~
(btw These weren't in my last words because I was aoifsgjqhnpoirehg there's a gun pointed at my head and I forgot Moonin!!!)
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##Vote Moonin
From what I read from Iffrita's and Moonin's posts, they had absolutely no interaction at all. The only connection between the two would be during the claims, and that would be Moonin claiming and trying to use it to clear Iffrita. When that failed, he then said Iffrita was Town barring role shenanigans.
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Hi, I'm back.
Mala's been hinting at an ability that activates when she's targeted. Now that I think about it, I want that ability tested now.
What.
I'm also not liking Orwen's reasoning for roleblocking Depore instead of Mala. The reasoning for not blocking Mala applies just as well to Depore.
Anyway, rereading now. Immediate suspects are Orwen and Xix IIRC.
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Xix, it looks like Orwen is the likely lynch for today. What's your opinion on him?
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Oh, and I'd like to extend an apology to Miya. :V
I think you're most likely town now, but you can imagine what I thought when you looked like you were pulling the same M.O. you've always pulled as scum.
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##Vote Moonin
Again, my case still stands. I have no idea how many times I've stated this and I his inability and/or unwillingness for the whole game to answer me assists my case.
Regarding Sage Orwen: I haven't reread him yet, I plan to do so soon hopefully, but I do dislike his emphasis on roles and find it hard to argue with Demon Navarus' case. I will likely switch to Sage Orwen in order to secure a lynch.
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Using PoE from a quick skim.
Yuan was early on Iffrita on both days during periods of time when she wasn't under much suspicion, so she's most likely town.
Miya is town barring a really really stupid scum gambit.
Mala was the first person to grill Iffrita on her claim on D2, and she was also Iffrita's last minute push for a wagon on D1, so she's probably town.
Depore was Iffrita's One True D1 case, and she's been posting good content D2, so I lean town on her.
Looking at the other four now.
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Things about Sage Orwen I should say if I'm going to express willingness to jump onto his wagon if I can't have my Moonin lynch: @Demon Navarus #624: Sage Orwen said in #111 that it was my vote. In #73 you say that you don't like the fact that I'm performing divinations and use this as a valid reason to keep your vote on me. You have claimed to be a roleblocker. You have said that you don't like me and probably my ability. You did not roleblock me. You drop your beloved case on me to go after Xix in #528 in favor of gut. In the middle of the Princess Miya vs. Empress Iffrita argument. You have not updated your case on me at all since #339. You have, however, continued to call me suspicious and want my role tested for god knows what reason despite the fact that you don't even know what my role is. Nice try to fish a claim out of me. In fact you have no cases on anyone right now. #723 You explained your read on me in #339. A lot has happened since then. When did you ever express suspicion of Moonin again? And now Moonin is among your top scumpicks. Most of your reads seem rather outdated there.
My annoyance at One is growing. How am I supposed to read you as derptown if you decide that lurking through important revelations is the best course of action?
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In fact Sage Orwen has been casually trying to fish out my role since #73.
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I found Iffrita to be town before all the role claiming.
Owen/Orwen, his obsession with me is just... huh? His case on me is disappearing for 48 hours, which I'll concede to, but family time > computer is my excuse on that, and otherwise he finds me a mediocre player, and is completely convinced I'm scum. Also, his reads go from Maya town but suspicious, Iffrita lying scum but town (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678398.html#msg678398) to the same thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678922.html#msg678922), saying either of them can be either alignment, to trying to delaying (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679227.html#msg679227) the vig (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679289.html#msg679289), then finally to trying to (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679305.html#msg679305) get Miya shot (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679314.html#msg679314).
And this, from his early game
And I somewhat agree with Navarus; it would be best for town for Xix to give his claim while giving town enough time to turn his wagon around if we believe it.
He claimed Roleblocker, if he were a scum roleblocker, this looks like a pretty inconspicuous way to get me to claim to see if I were worthy of being blocked.
He's scum, and I would have been voting for him earlier but that would have put him at L-1.
Bah, cut by Mala twice.
If people want me to claim, then I shall.
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I'm gonna go shower and go to sleep in about 30 minutes. It looks like the Moonin lynch isn't happening, so I'll switch my vote to Orwen then since I'm not sacrificing a ton of sleep again just to see some bullshit happen at deadline. Anything you want to ask of me, you got 20 minutes to do it and I'll get to it.
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First, I'm voting not me over me.
##Unvote
##Vote Moonin
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@Mala - A lot has changed. Frankly though, I don't care for role fishing. If you are going to ask players to visit you since early on day 1 in nearly every post, don't be surprised if I draw the conclusion that it's role related.
There were a few reasons I didn't roleblock you.
1. If I was successful and a night kill happened, then I would know that you did not perform the kill and I would have to drop you because you wouldn't be the most likely scum anymore, probabilistically (since you could not be the scum that performed the kill.
2. I can't be the player that visits you, because I don't technically visit anyone. I send my fans to visit people and hinder them.
3. Divination, or whatever you've been hinting at since early day 1, sounds like an information role. I would rather try to avoid blocking it, in case you came back the next day with information that would prove you were town.
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You said that Moonin was among your top scumpicks didn't you? So your vote should be more than simply a "not me over me" right?
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It is late and I'm pretty much not going to be able to ISO people. I sorta skimmed people.
And now I'm remembering that Iffrita was one of the first people to start a serious case on Xix. Call me naive, but I'm putting him at neutral leaning scum for now. Xix's lack of content sorta damns himself really, but it looks to me as more bad than scummy at this point. Still want him to talk though. Answer my question!
Moonin's logic is convoluted, and I don't understand why he, as scum, would counterclaim Iffrita's ability with a full neighborizer...and then clear Iffrita as town. I suppose one possibility is that he was trying to fish for a "hider" with Iffrita, but eh. I can understand some of the arguments he makes on D2 because I was making similar arguments regarding scum!Miya over scum!Iffrita. Anyway, it looks Iffrita was trying to buddy to Moonin. Neutral leaning scum, but a lighter shade of scum than Xix. Boy, this sure would be easier if Moonin would post.
Orwen read would go here but hell, I'll just throw in my D1 case, add in his neutrality during the Miya/Iffrita scuffle, and piggyback off everyone else's cases! :toot:
Actually, there's one problem I have with the Orwen case. Orwen spent a lot of time talking about how Iffrita should have visited "Demon Navarus's" room instead of "UK"'s room. I don't really see how this fits as part of scum-scum interaction. It's a relatively minor point though, and it doesn't really make up for everything else.
Alright, Iffrita pretty much defended One all game, to the point of calling him "obv newbtown (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676476.html#msg676476)" at one point. One is ehhhhhh. He was pretty neutral throughout the whole Iffrita/Miya business. In any case, he's probably scum just by process of elimination. One also makes sense as a buddy with Orwen and Iffrita. This is extremely irritating for me because I've been spending all game defending One, which is argh.
Last of all, I want to share that I know through other aspects of my role that at the end of Night 1, there existed a role with powers equivalent to a Tracker in the game. >_> Now that two roles have apparently come out with Tracker powers, I don't really know what to think, and I'm not sure if the Tracker is supposed to be Navarus or Miya. Anyway, I just thought I'd share it.
If I'm still alive tomorrow I'll be able to get actual rereads out.
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Wait. Wait. Wait. Put all the divination on hold. Are you really saying what I think you're saying in #748?
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You are saying that you didn't roleblock me because you didn't want to risk the chance that you might turn me into confirmed town.
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Also, I'm pretty sure Mr. Orwen here is obsessed with roles regardless of alignment.
Cut by Mala with a really open ended question.
Also, I'm not going to be around at deadline. I'll put in my support for the Orwen lynch (pretend I voted him) but I'm not voting just yet because I have to go sleep soon, and I don't know if L-1 is safe yet. Are enough people going to be around at deadline?
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No, seriously. Are you seriously saying that you did not roleblock me because you did not want to run the risk that I might not perform the roleblock and that it would be harder for you to make a case on me if this happened?
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EBWOP: Ah, I see. Yeah, I noticed that too.
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I will be around for today's deadline.
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Xix, it looks like Orwen is the likely lynch for today. What's your opinion on him?
This question?
He's scum, and I would have been voting for him earlier but that would have put him at L-1.
Wait... what just happened?
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Anyways
[03:36] <Xix> @choose sleep or stay
[03:36] <EX-Keine-tan> I choose...sleep! ^_^V
So that's sleep time for me.
##Unvote
##Vote: Orwen
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There were a few reasons I didn't roleblock you.
1. If I was successful and a night kill happened, then I would know that you did not perform the kill and I would have to drop you because you wouldn't be the most likely scum anymore, probabilistically (since you could not be the scum that performed the kill.
This happened.
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#754: It should read: "I might not perform the nightkill". Sage Orwen's statement has made me lose my mind temporarily.
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Also, I didn't express suspicions of Moonin before because I didn't have suspicions of Moonin. I only started having any suspicion of him at all in light of Iffrita's flip, due largely to how much he's been supporting Iffrita and attacking Miya.
-cut-
Yes. I'm a roleblocker. It's my job to keep tab of roles, so as to determine which players to target and which players not to target.
@Mala - I cannot confirm town with my roleblock. I can only confirm that you personally did not perform the night kill, or if you did, that you are the scum that performed the night kill. Players that I check are less likely to be scum if they did not perform the kill, so it makes more sense for me to go after players that I want to confirm did not do the kill or am not very sure about rather than players I intend to go all out on the very next day.
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Are you serious? You are saying that NOT stopping a potential nightkill so that you can make a case is pro-town.
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You are a roleblocker. You can stop the nightkill. You said you thought I was scum. Therefore you could have stopped a nightkill or a scum role if you were right. Is this not enough reason to block me? In fact you take it one step further and say that you did not block me FOR these reasons.
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This is my first time with a roleblock. I wasn't exactly going to ask "What's the best way to use a roleblock" on the first day of the game.
EDIT:
You are a roleblocker. You can stop the nightkill. You said you thought I was scum. Therefore you could have stopped a nightkill or a scum role if you were right. Is this not enough reason to block me? In fact you take it one step further and say that you did not block me FOR these reasons.
What?
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I'm sorry but this logic has simply blown my mind away. Much more than any divination I've performed up to this point. I think I need a moment to collect myself.
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Okay. Since you are here and posting let me lead you through this step by step. I just want you to answer my questions.
Question 1: You thought I was scum? Yes or no.
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Finalized list goes something like this:
Yuan>Miya>>Mala>Depore>>>>Moonin>Xix>>One>Orwen
-razor leaf-
Ehh...Orwen, I'm not following how a roleblock on Depore confirms her more than a roleblock on Mala. Is this what you're saying?
I've been thinking over why Orwen would block Depore in any case. It makes sense as a scum move if Iffrita was going to pursue Depore D2.
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@Caladbolg: Where does Mikhael go in that list?
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Look, I thought that if you were town, your role would probably be verified that night because of how much hinting you've been doing about your role. That's the reason I didn't block you.
@ Mala
1. Yes.
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Question 2: Everybody in this game has a power role. Yes or no?
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2. Yes
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Question 3: You believed that I was scum. If you were correct this would mean that I had a pro-scum power role. Yes or no?
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3. No. Roles and alignments are not linked.
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Derp, forgot about Mikhail since he isn't on the player list. Mikhail goes right after Miya. I found him pro-town before the revive, and the revive itself was pro-town. In addition I've been agreeing with him a lot.
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Question 4: Scum would use their power role in a way that would most benefit the scum team. Yes or no?
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4. Yes.
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Question 5: Your roleblock allows you to stop a nightkill from being performed. Yes or no?
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5. Yes
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Question 6: You had the potential to stop a power role being used in scum's favor and/or a nightkill, yet you decided not to roleblock who you thought was scum as, if a nightkill had still occurred, it would have been supposedly harder for you to push a lynch on the roleblocked scum. Yes or no?
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Forgot to answer this.
This question?
Yeah, you cut me with it.
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Not just harder. I wouldn't have been able to do it. The odds of them being scum would have gone from 3/10 to 2/9, and I'd have to build new cases so as to go after the most likely scum, while still disliking the player I blocked.
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So you are saying that it is a bad thing to look at different people? And how does it become impossible? And how can you say with certainty that there are three scum, especially when there was a vote moving third party around.
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I fail to see how the odds of the person you roleblock being scum changes. Also, you claim to have roleblocked Depore. You seemed to have no problems in trying to push a case on her.
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Mostly a guess, by the number of players. I doubt there would be 4 scum and a third party. And I've never even played a game with only 2 scum on this site.
It's not a bad thing to look at other people. I don't want to drop a case though simply because a player that I want lynched is a little less likely to be scum for reasons that I won't be able to back up without admitting to blocking them. But I would not be able to push the case when I know that they did not perform the night kill.
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Your logic confounds me so much.
Bonus Question: You have stated that you found Depore to be scummy throughout Day 2. You claim to have roleblocked Depore on Night 1. A nightkilled occurred during Night 1. How were you able to continue stating your suspicions of Depore, despite knowing that she did not perform the night kill?
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I have no problems pushing a case on her now that I know Iffrita targetted UK. Anyway, probability.
With 11 players, there are 10 players that could be scum (since I'm town). 3 of them are scum. Thus, 3/10.
If I know player X did not perform the night kill, then X is not scum A. He can only be scum B or C. Thus, scum A is one of the other 10. Thus, the odds of X being scum is reduced to 2/9, which means I should go after the other targets that still have about a 3/10 chance of being scum instead.
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What.
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Your logic confounds me so much.
Bonus Question: You have stated that you found Depore to be scummy throughout Day 2. You claim to have roleblocked Depore on Night 1. A nightkilled occurred during Night 1. How were you able to continue stating your suspicions of Depore, despite knowing that she did not perform the night kill?
Less likely doesn't mean not scum. Note that towards the beginning of the day I asked her to make cases, and told her how to make them. That was because I wanted her to stop playing so suspiciously, since I knew she didn't do the night kill and I wanted to try to clear her. I only started seriously considering her again after when I realized scum A was probably Iffrita, which means now everyone including her has the 2/9 chance of being scum.
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#788 "Less likely doesn't mean not scum." Exactly my point. Why would you not roleblock who you thought was scum? I would still like for you to answer Question 6.
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In addition, your hypothetical scenario relies on the scum you pick being the scum that performs the nightkill. Even if you did manage to pick out a scum, it would only be a 1/3 chance that they were the actual scum performing the nightkill. (1/3 assuming your assumption of 3 scum is correct.)
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So I will state it again. Why would any townie not want to block the role of and a potential nightkill from somebody that they thought was scum?
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Question 6: You had the potential to stop a power role being used in scum's favor and/or a nightkill, yet you decided not to roleblock who you thought was scum as, if a nightkill had still occurred, it would have been supposedly harder for you to push a lynch on the roleblocked scum. Yes or no?
It would be no more difficult for me to push a case on roleblocked scum than on non-roleblocked scum. However, the odds of a roleblocked scum being scum are significantly lower, to the point where I am not willing to push the lynch of a player that was roleblocked on a day when a nightkill happened in spite of the roleblock.
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And you are ruling out all other possible roles that could potentially stop a nightkill? For example, the traditional doctor. And you are admitting it yourself, your motivation for not roleblocking somebody that you thought was scum was because you wanted to keep pushing a case on them.
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Because if you think that they are scum, you should keep pushing a case on them anyway.
2/9 is not much lower than 3/10. And Mafia is not a game that is completely random.
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In other words, I would not be able to pursue the case. I would rather roleblock someone I find suspicious so as to prove that they did not do the night kill and reduce my suspicion (and hopefully catch a scum), than to target my main suspect, and find out that he did not perform the night kill, which would force me to change my read of him from scummy to suspicious. Especially since there are more than one scum, and I could be giving an actual scum a free pass simply because he didn't perform the nightkill himself.
I am not ruling out all possible roles that could stop a night kill, so much as I was not concerning myself with them when I was making my selections.
And 2/9 is significantly lower than 3/10. It's less than 75% of 3/10
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Okay. I finally figured out a way to word what was bugging me so much. Look if you roleblocked somebody else and the nightkill occurred WHAT IS GIVING THEM A CLEAR? WHAT STOPS THEM FROM BEING ONE OF THE SCUM THAT DID NOT PERFORM THE NIGHTKILL? IN FACT, IF YOU WANT TO GO BY PURE PROBABILITY, IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT YOU'LL BLOCK SCUM THAT DID NOT PERFORM THE NIGHTKILL THAN REGULAR SCUM.
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#796 "IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT YOU'LL BLOCK SCUM THAT DID NOT PERFORM THE NIGHTKILL THAN REGULAR SCUM." It should read "than scum that performed the nightkill."
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Caladbolg, you're still around right? What do you think of this mess because I don't get it at all.
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Your logic is correct. I am more likely to block the scum that did not perform the night kill than the scum that performed the night kill. However, any player that I block on a night with a kill is also significantly less likely to be scum.
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Here's the important part though. By not blocking who you think is most likely to be scum you are making it more likely for yourself to block a townie. And if you block a townie that means that you are stopping an ability from being used for pro-town reasons.
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Here's the important part though. By not blocking who you think is most likely to be scum you are making it more likely for yourself to block a townie. And if you block a townie that means that you are stopping an ability from being used for pro-town reasons.
True, but I am also verifying that they did not perform the night kill, which is evidence in their favor.
That is the reason I targeted a player I was suspicious of, rather than the player I found scummiest.
-
Though to be fair, if I had more role information at the time I probably would have targetted someone that didn't look light they had any night ability at all.
-
Just a warning; I will not be able to answer many questions after 50 minutes from now. If you have any last minute things you want to ask, it would be a good idea to do so now.
-
I have no problems pushing a case on her now that I know Iffrita targetted UK. Anyway, probability.
With 11 players, there are 10 players that could be scum (since I'm town). 3 of them are scum. Thus, 3/10.
If I know player X did not perform the night kill, then X is not scum A. He can only be scum B or C. Thus, scum A is one of the other 10. Thus, the odds of X being scum is reduced to 2/9, which means I should go after the other targets that still have about a 3/10 chance of being scum instead.
...Probability...you know what happened last time I talked about probability? Someone telling me to kinda throw it out the window. You can't rely on probability in Mafia games.
Also from what I seen to be seeing from your post, your saying your Roleblock of Depore, gave her townie-creds?
Do I see something wrong with this?
You say she was given townie creds, yet you only display it to town when it suits you. Shouldn't these kind of information be asap?
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...Probability...you know what happened last time I talked about probability? Someone telling me to kinda throw it out the window. You can't rely on probability in Mafia games.
Also from what I seen to be seeing from your post, your saying your Roleblock of Depore, gave her townie-creds?
Do I see something wrong with this?
You say she was given townie creds, yet you only display it to town when it suits you. Shouldn't these kind of information be asap?
Not a chance unless one of us is about to be lynched.
Revealing that information earlier in the day would have revealed that my role can block kills. There was no way I was revealing that my role could block kills unless I needed to. Heck, even hinting a role based reason for not wanting a Depore lynch would have been a bad idea.
-
Screw this, drunk people don't lie, UK has been right so far,
Lets throw logic out the window shall we,
Time to be the One who takes fire to be the One who sets Sage Orwen on L-1
##Vote Sage Orwen
Regrets should have no place in this world.
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##Vote: Sage Orwen
I could have sworn I thought I said Iffritas was town day one, but then again, I might not have said that because I didn't want to just make a post listing all of the people who are town. Speaking of which, I'm taking Mikhail off of the list I made for UK.
I'm going to be inciting a lot of anger tomorrow, I know, but you'll all have 24 hours to cool down, right? Besides, i still think Orwen has a good chance of being scum.
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Day 2 has ended.
Sage Orwen the Reknown Sage has been lynched.
Demon Navarus has disappeared.
Mikhail has returned.
It is now Night 2. You have 24 hours to send actions to the 3 mods.
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Sigh. Since it wasn't obvious, I'll state it here now.
A hammer ends the Day. A mod does not need to tell you that you need to shut up after a hammer, you may assume you must shut up after a hammer because the Day phase has ended. I have therefore edited the main post to include this note:
A HAMMER ENDS THE DAY PHASE. That means shut up once someone's been voted to Lynch.
For clarification: Yes, this means that there are no circumstances under which someone could possibly require L+2 to be lynched. That's just silly.
-
All Night Actions received. No revisions to Night Actions will be accepted. Resolving them now.
Starting the Day soon, too. It'll start at 72 hours as normal.
-
Day breaks as usual, and the collective reconvenes in the main hall.
They count their numbers, and realise that someone is missing. Not just anyone, but a certain, lecherous Prophet...! As they head to their room, it looks like someone wanted to assist her divinations, but mistook her method of acquiring them by blasting a hole through her body.
During Night 2, someone attacked and killed Prophet Mala, the Divination Prophet.
---
Votecount of the Third Day - Watch Out For The Moon!
Not Voting: Bloody everyone
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are 72 hours until Night 3.
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Oh, and Prophet Mala's defense of One is noted. The vote for Moonin is interesting.
This is clearly not a 100% thing, but looking at interactions...
Moonin/Iffrita and One/Mala are potential scum pairings. Obviously there's gonna be more than 2 scum. There's probably a third player who is just lurking and distancing.
Maybe Depore? Maybe Sage Orwen?
I'm down for ANY of the following lynches today:
Iffrita
Sage
One
Mala
Depore(this is here because of a bad gut feeling I have, plus I'm conditioned to have the "Why my Fry me" in my system at all times SOOOO yeah. Let me read closer into Depore before I make this official)
Vote: Moonin
A few reasons:
1) Day 1 interactions with Empress and her voting Paterns in Day 2 (preferred Miya!town lynch)
2) Day 2 interactions with Mala, making this kill very likely to come from her.
Also, while his claim doesn't make him scum, IT DOES NOT MAKE HIM TOWN AT ALL. Neighborizer is an INCREDIBLE power in the hands of scum, especially since it is a confirmable power to claim.
Confirmed role =/= confirmed alignment. Anyone trying to make that argument will be questioned severely.
-
In other words, I'm sticking with my D1 reads.
Mala is town, so I'm backing off One for today. I still think hate how he's played so far, and I'm NOT WILLING to give him the "derptown" pass you all gave ME last anonymafia. Remember that? Yeah.
But for today, I'm willing to hold out and see if his play can improve. Moonin is the lynch for today.
-
Oh, and I'll be looking through the two previous days to find potential Moonin partners.
-
Obvious scumpects for the day are Xix, One, and Moonin.
I will only make a quick post next morning, with a more substantial one the next night (24 hours from now).
For now, I want to know who Moonin targetted (at least so we know his role is confirmable). And I believe Miya should tell us who she watched last night.
I will look through Iffrita's content some other time for the clues needed. I also need to reread One.... and Moonin... those people that I didn't pay much attention to until now. I wonder why.
I must say I'm surprised Orwen wasn't scum. UK said in our QT that the Orwen-Mala Spat made Orwen look town but that it was better to get his lynch. Her Gut really is impressive!
I'm quite exhausted now from soccer... after chess.
-
And I believe Miya should tell us who she watched last night.
Mikhail, really? Really?
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I'm still not sold on Moonin scum, even after his siding with Iffrita. I have an easier time justifying the neighborization claim timing with him as town than as scum, I'm still inclined to think he got hit with a roleblock given what's been said which gives him a little bit more leeway with me, and looking through his posting history, I just couldn't bring myself to agree with Mala's assessment about his constantly lacking an opinion, as much as I now know it was genuinely what she thought.
So instead I think I will do this.
##Vote: Xix
His game-long lacking content has been documented before, but knowing Iffrita was scum and Miya is very likely town, there is also his actions after Miya's initial claim, with this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677900.html#msg677900) standing out in particular. Assuming Miya to be town (which I think is a pretty safe assumption), scum would have known something was up the instant she made her initial declaration, and would have needed to start planning out how to deal with it immediately. Take a look at this:
And if what I suspect is true, then Miya's asking for a claim and Iffrita's claim are believable to me. This doesn't indicate anything for alignment, as roles are not related to alignment at all.
This really, really reads like scum still trying to plan for how to deal with the Miya situation, but not wanting to get caught with their pants down by being around when the initial claim happened but not saying anything at all. He doesn't elaborate on what he suspects, he throws in the easy line about how the claim does nothing for alignment (as much as Orwen's flip makes this slightly harder to really rub in, it's still unhelpful noise), and there's no real elaboration on anything. It comes off as flustered scum just putting a couple of lines out there so they look like they're analyzing the situation, as opposed to town intrigued by the conflict and wanting to get to the bottom of it (see Mala's grilling for a good example of this).
The post also comes after several instances of Xix focusing on other things, which I find odd as I'd think what had just happened would have been jarring enough to focus on quicker than he did, or to write more than he did about it.
His absensce from most of the rest of the day doesn't help at all, obviously.
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GOD, HOW MANY ROLEBLOCKERS ARE IN THIS GAME?!
Moonin, is your neighborizer one shot? If not, someone claim being neighborized by him
Assuming that Orwen didn't lie and there are no hidden abilities of his, and assuming that Iffrita didn't lie, then there's TOO MANY GOD DAMN ROLE BLOCKERS IN THIS GAME. Yes, I claim being roleblocked last night.
@Depore: I was certain that Miya was going to claim one of tracker/watcher. I wasn't going to outright say it, since that might give her ideas if she was scum.
-
assuming that Iffrita didn't lie,
...
...
Where the hell have you been?
She is SCUM. Scum lie.
Why would you think she was telling the truth?
-
...
...
Where the hell have you been?
She is SCUM. Scum lie.
Why would you think she was telling the truth?
You can pretty much throw this in the pile with Mikhail's LOLWATCHER comment.
People are NOT paying attention to this game... or scum is feigning it.
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EBWOP: The above post was referring to the comment made by Xix about Iffrita; not about Miya's post.
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OH, that reminds me though.
@Miya: Do you have information for us?
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O yeah... Sorry I was brain-dead (and still am)
Tell us who you watched! LATER. at your discretion. ^_^
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O yeah... Sorry I was brain-dead (and still am)
Tell us who you watched! LATER. at your discretion. ^_^
...
What.
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I'll put it this way. If you watched Mala.. then I'm sure you will say something. I trust Miya can make her own judgements.
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I'll put it this way. If you watched Mala.. then I'm sure you will say something. I trust Miya can make her own judgements.
WATCHED.
SHE CLAIMED TRACKER.
WHAT?
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Just because scum have a reason to lie doesn't mean they don't tell the truth. That said, I was just referring to her jailkeeper part of her role. Yes, she was most likely lying about her role, but there is a chance she wasn't. Either way, this is all balance issues and I will bring them to the mod after I see the entire set up.
That said,
##Vote Mikhail
His only post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678067.html#msg678067) to explain his scum reads. Who are they? The flipped Townie, two people who are almost certainly townie, and me, who is town. He has been breathing down my neck and Orwen's forever, being the most adamant in getting Orwen lynched. And the possibility of him bussing Iffrita for town credit is pretty damn possible, since he revived UK RIGHT AFTER YUAN CAUGHT IFFRITA ON HER CLAIM.
Moonin is still my other suspect.
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Immediate thoughts are that Moonin is townier than One and Xix for reasons that will be explained (mostly because I believe Iffrita/Moonin interactions fit scum/town interactions better than scum/scum). Leaning towards a Xix vote atm.
Inner voices silent in the dark abyss of the mind
State your name and purpose so that information I may find
-HM01-
Go read his claim again, Yuan.
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:|
That doesn't really address my issue with what you said very much, Xix. It's basically the least relevant part of my case and does nothing to alleviate my concerns that it reads like scum scrambling to contribute while trying to think of a plan for how to deal with the sudden unexpected situation.
On the flip side, the roleblock claim is...I want to ask why you'd be roleblocked, but I'd also have to ask why Moonin was roleblocked on Night 1. Is it possible we have two town roleblockers? Neither of those targets seem to make much sense coming from scum. That would knock over one of my Moonin supports, though I still lean town on him independent of roleblock shenanigans, so.
I suspect I will have to give One a once-over tomorrow, since the other four living options don't really interest me in terms of pursuit right now. Even if Mikhail's response to Miya just now was a bit odd.
Cut by Yuan: Actually, she claimed alternating Tracker/Watcher and theoretically was on Watch last night (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679374.html#msg679374). What's this about people not paying attention to the game? <_<
Cut by Xix with a Mikhail case. Will read momentarily.
-
Or the ex-book can steal my thunder.
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Mikhail, who do you suspect more out of the three?
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Xix case on Mikhail is eh. It is interesting that two of his four reads have now flipped town (and I know I'm town), but it seems like a cheap shot to emphasize that it was his "only post to explain his scum reads" when he was removed from the game for the day after the summon. >_>
The rest of the case is something Mikhail should defend for himself.
-
Anyway, I'm outtie, because work won't drive itself to me tomorrow morning.
-
Xix, what happened to your Moonin case?
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EBWOP: Oh nvm I can't read.
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I want whoever roleblocked me to claim it. I will claim how that will help us find scum, but that comes after someone claims to have roleblocked me.
Indeed, he was removed from the game for the day. But what stopped him from explaining his scum reads on D1? Which is my previous case on him.
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Votecount of the Third Dawn
Moonin (1): Yuan
Xix (1): Depore
Mikhail (1): Xix
Not Voting: Mikhail, Miya, Xix, Caladbolg, Moonin
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are 68 hours until Night 3.
Whatever it is you want to tell others, I trust you can do so with mutual respect and understanding. Hostilities are pass?.
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Hey cool, I'll be eating my words then now.
I haven't seen an alternating role in a mafia game in AGES. That's REALLY helpful.
@Miya: I'd like to hear your results in your next post please.
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I want whoever roleblocked me to claim it. I will claim how that will help us find scum, but that comes after someone claims to have roleblocked me.
Indeed, he was removed from the game for the day. But what stopped him from explaining his scum reads on D1? Which is my previous case on him.
Well, let us investigate the evidence here.
Iffrita claims a ridiculous role D1.
I counter claim part of it.
Moonin claims Neighborizer. I don't cc that.
So there's only two options left, either I cc'd that incredibly complex obviously fake hider thing.
OR
I cc'd the Jailer.
What do YOU think it was?
(Hint: It's the Jailer. I jailed you last night. The jail power protects you from kills, but also blocks your actions)
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Well, then either you are scum (UGGGGGGGGGGGH, I DO NOT REALLY WANT TO CONSIDER THIS), or the mod gave town three roleblocking abilities. I am a conditional roleblocker, and can roleblock under certain conditions.
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Well, then either you are scum (UGGGGGGGGGGGH, I DO NOT REALLY WANT TO CONSIDER THIS), or the mod gave town three roleblocking abilities. I am a conditional roleblocker, and can roleblock under certain conditions.
I'm a jailer.
I'm different from a roleblocker.
What this LIKELY means, is that there is NO DOCTOR in this setup. I'm the only protective role.
Also, don't try to outguess the mod please. The setup is balanced, so if town needs three RBs, it's likely because we NEED THREE RBs.
The other option is that you're scum.
Which is it?
-
(BTW, the correct answer there is to go with your gut and not try and play "let's guess the mod")
-
I think you need to full claim Xix. There's a reason you have a "conditional" on your RB, obviously.
Also, to add to the suspicion that I am the only protective role in the game: I can self target with my jailing ability. Which means it basically works like a self protect.
-
I'll full claim if somebody else asks for it, since there's plenty of time left.
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Well, regardless of role shenanigans I have a LIGHT town read on Xix due to there being a kill last night.
I thought that if Xix was scum he'd be the one to send the kill.
@Xix: Outside of your ridiculous "LET'S IGNORE OUR SCUMREADS AND SCUMHUNT USING THE SETUP SPECULATION", who are your top 3 scum reads? Who are your top two reads?
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EBWOP: Two should be *town there
-
Oh, and Updated reads list time:
TOWN
Book (you know who I mean)
Miya
-------
Xix
Mikhail
Depore
-------
One
Moonin
SCUM
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Hmm this is extremely interesting, but damn ya'll, I can't keep selective information away from you for nothing.
One, I have reason to believe you are scum. If so, you can claim it now and save us all the trouble~
Just lay down and die like a good scum since probably your most powerful partner is already down for the count. ufu
Either way I want a FULL claim from him and Xix. Now please.
-
Hmm this is extremely interesting, but damn ya'll, I can't keep selective information away from you for nothing.
One, I have reason to believe you are scum. If so, you can claim it now and save us all the trouble~
Just lay down and die like a good scum since probably your most powerful partner is already down for the count. ufu
Either way I want a FULL claim from him and Xix. Now please.
Unvote; Vote: One
Let's DO THIS.
-
Alright, since two of my 3 highest town reads have asked for a full claim, here it is.
I am Xix, the main character and I have an Unsealed Evil in me. I am also missing my heart. My ability is that I Roleblock anyone who targets me. The catch is that there are certain people who can bypass my roleblock. In addition, the mod really loves his wine because he mentioned that something might happen to me if I survive three nights without having my heart returned to me.
-
...
And what returns your heart to you?
-
Hell if I know, try asking the mod maybe.
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Shit.
See, Xix has a demon living inside him? And his heart can leave him... But if it is away too long... Then the demon escapes.
I have no idea what that implies, and it's flavor spec so it's not WORTH a whole lot.
But it's something to consider.
-
In other words... I think the demon in Xix's chest will escape if he lives through N3.
-
...
So he converts to scum after 3 days? wut?
Either way I want One to get his slap happy self in here and full claim thank you.
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Oh right, I forgot to mention that my ability was not activated during Night 1, and the mod didn't tell me who roleblocked me N2, just that I was roleblocked.
Anyways, my top two scum picks are pretty obvious. I'll get to rereading and get a 3rd suspect.
-
...
So he converts to scum after 3 days? wut?
Either way I want One to get his slap happy self in here and full claim thank you.
Can't assume that. Don't think that's balanced/balancable.
I think if anything, one of 3 things happens:
1) he gains a new power, helpful for town <----- we want this
2) He becomes anti town, likely an ITP
3) He dies.
Those are my guesses. If anyone in the town has a HEART they can give to Xix, TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT.
-
Hmm Mikhal and Moonin was it?
I would rather see your Moonin case than you searching for a 3 suspect Xix.
Hmm, right, I see Yuan.
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Votecount of the Herp Derp Buga Boogoloo Lolololol
Xix (1): Depore
Mikhail (1): Xix
One (1): Yuan
Moonin (0): Yuan
Not Voting: Mikhail, Miya, One, Caladbolg, Moonin
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are 66 hours until Night 3.
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Uhhh...
Case on him based on Iffrita's interactions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679585.html#msg679585)
And he still has yet to even notice Mala's case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679222.html#msg679222) exists on him, and since she is deceased and confirmed townie, I'm gonna be adopting the case.
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Hmm this is extremely interesting, but damn ya'll, I can't keep selective information away from you for nothing.
One, I have reason to believe you are scum. If so, you can claim it now and save us all the trouble~
Just lay down and die like a good scum since probably your most powerful partner is already down for the count. ufu
Either way I want a FULL claim from him and Xix. Now please.
Herp, I hate the fact that you assumed the fact you were the only defensive role in the game Yuan,
My Role is the fact that I can choose a target at night, where I can defend against attacks, using this ability to block NightKills
kills me instead.
I also have the ability to use this in the Day.
-
I have only a little time (1/2 hour) to check in here.
One and Moonin have only recently come unto my radar, and I had strong feelings about Xix Scum coming into the day. One, who did you target last night with your "bodyguard" role.
There is something I'd rather bring up.
Can't assume that. Don't think that's balanced/balancable.
I think if anything, one of 3 things happens:
1) he gains a new power, helpful for town <----- we want this
2) He becomes anti town, likely an ITP
3) He dies.
Those are my guesses. If anyone in the town has a HEART they can give to Xix, TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT.
I'm thinking 2), if this is not the case already. I have role-related reasons to believe this, and whatever the case. After night 3, I will be personally be afraid of dying... not from scum... but from Xix, based on his earlier "claim". I don't want to tell everyone why I feel this way JUST yet.
Also I don't have a Heart to give. Although I would expect that I'd be the one to give something like that to Xix.. considering our personal relationship.
I doubt this will work, but "I give Xix his heart"
Now. Xix your vote on me is a little ridiculous. Yuan ccing Jailer was not what caught Iffrita. I revived UK to see if Iffrita had neighborized her. Even after UK came back and pushed for a Iffrita vig, this town was still debating whether to shoot Miya or Iffrita. It is hard to see you as town at this juncture. It's possible that you are a 4th party.
I have yet to do a reread of One and Moonin. But on general principles One is likely to be scum based on Iffrita's defending of him, and the scrutiny that fell on Just for voting him D1. Futhermore, I don't remember One giving any concrete opinions yesterday.
Moonin, is just a natural target for today. His opinions have been minimal this game. His Neighborizer claim yesterday may have been a way to cover for Iffrita. I am not suspcious of anyone else besides Xix, Moonin, and One.
I will probably vote One after a reread of the three of them.
Please at least wait until 11:00 tonight EST.
Hopefully Moonin will post in the interim.
-
I have only a little time (1/2 hour) to check in here.
One and Moonin have only recently come unto my radar, and I had strong feelings about Xix Scum coming into the day. One, who did you target last night with your "bodyguard" role.
Bodyguard...? I think its more fitting to call it a substitute or Body Double.
Night 1 > Book of the Past
Night 2 > Princess Miya
No losses here.
Anymore questions?
-
Oh one thing I forgot to mention, It seems scum didn't deem Princess Miya's roleclaim dangerous enough to kill her.
From what I know, her role should have been extremely dangerous for scum, yet scum decides Prophet Mala is a better choice.
This is definitely questionable.
-
One just claimed an impossible role, if I'm reading Miya correctly.
I assuming Miya watched Mala last night, and saw One visit her.
If this is true, then One's claim is fake because Mala died last night. If his claim was real, HE would have been the one to die.
So, he's fake claiming.
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One just claimed an impossible role, if I'm reading Miya correctly.
I assuming Miya watched Mala last night, and saw One visit her.
If this is true, then One's claim is fake because Mala died last night. If his claim was real, HE would have been the one to die.
So, he's fake claiming.
Wait what are you talking about? reread please
> Night 2 Princess Miya
-
Yeah. I think that's false.
I think Miya is claiming that she watched MALA and saw you go there.
If she watched herself, then you're off the hook for today.
-
@Miya: Please come and claim your FULL result.
This will decide whether I lynch Moonin or One today.
-
/me looks at all the claims.
One, who's scum?
I'd be down for a One lynch today. I have yet to reread him again, but Iffrita/One scum makes more sense than Iffrita/Xix scum from D1, and I dislike their D2s equally. The only thing bothering me is why Mala was killed last night, but that's night kill WIFOM.
If you have time to blab out there.
Why not post in here?
Grace us with your presence.
Entering the last two words in the title name.
-
Although Miya, if you had reason to believe One was scum, why not claim it at the start of the day?
-
Votecount of Still Herp Derp Buga Boogoloo
Xix (1): Depore
Mikhail (1): Xix
One (1): Yuan
Moonin (0): Yuan
Not Voting: Mikhail, Miya, One, Caladbolg, Moonin
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are 57 hours until Night 3.
-
Man, it's been ... how many games since I've come under heavy fire? I guess I should go ahead and post my Thought Stream.
One is notable for being on Just's, Miya's, and Orwen's wagons when they were hot. It's also worth noting that One's vote on Orwen was the hammer, which means my vote was useless.
I don't think everyone on the scumteam would have thrown their support for Miya's lynch so hard, considering the vig, and the fact that the Miya wagon would eventually come under heavy suspicion since it was only a matter of time before Iffritas' lynch. so assuming One is scum, that would limit the list to Yuan, Depore, Xix, and Mikhail. Of the four, I think Xix is the most suspicious. I really don't like the fact that he was away for the entire Miya/Iffritas discussion. I at least made sure I made my opinion on the debate well known, even if I was wrong.
For Depore, Iffritas tries to throw a lot of Dirt (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679339.html#msg679339) onto Depore, and even goes so far as to pull out If Miya is Town, Then Lynch Depore (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679344.html#msg679344). This makes me think Depore is likely to not be scum with Iffritas.
Additionally, The switch onto Orwen is explained in NeoDepore's first content post of the game. It was Depore's strongest read, so seeing this consistency does make me think Depore is town. I don't see how Iffritas saw that Depore was taking a laidback style, or why her style was any worse than Xix's. I think the push was just an attempt to slide in another town lynch before her own.
I still want to ISO Yuan and Miktail before we go any further. My strongest non-One suspicion is on Xix, but I still don't want to let anything surprise me. I'm stopping now, because I'm kind of hungry, and this post is three hours in the making and still only half-done.
-
Man, it's been ... how many games since I've come under heavy fire? I guess I should go ahead and post my Thought Stream.
One is notable for being on Just's, Miya's, and Orwen's wagons when they were hot. It's also worth noting that One's vote on Orwen was the hammer, which means my vote was useless.
I don't think everyone on the scumteam would have thrown their support for Miya's lynch so hard, considering the vig, and the fact that the Miya wagon would eventually come under heavy suspicion since it was only a matter of time before Iffritas' lynch. so assuming One is scum, that would limit the list to Yuan, Depore, Xix, and Mikhail. Of the four, I think Xix is the most suspicious. I really don't like the fact that he was away for the entire Miya/Iffritas discussion. I at least made sure I made my opinion on the debate well known, even if I was wrong.
For Depore, Iffritas tries to throw a lot of Dirt (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679339.html#msg679339) onto Depore, and even goes so far as to pull out If Miya is Town, Then Lynch Depore (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679344.html#msg679344). This makes me think Depore is likely to not be scum with Iffritas.
Additionally, The switch onto Orwen is explained in NeoDepore's first content post of the game. It was Depore's strongest read, so seeing this consistency does make me think Depore is town. I don't see how Iffritas saw that Depore was taking a laidback style, or why her style was any worse than Xix's. I think the push was just an attempt to slide in another town lynch before her own.
I still want to ISO Yuan and Miktail before we go any further. My strongest non-One suspicion is on Xix, but I still don't want to let anything surprise me. I'm stopping now, because I'm kind of hungry, and this post is three hours in the making and still only half-done.
Neighborizer. What happened to it?
Further, who's your top 3 scum suspects?
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I received a one-way QT last night from someone I assume is Moonin.
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"Assume" because the other person is apparently not allowed to reveal their name.
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Neighborizer. What happened to it?
Further, who's your top 3 scum suspects?
1. ^^^
2. One, Xix, and Mikhail, in that order.
I'm putting faith into Miya's role, but if it turns out she doesn't have anything conclusive, I will do an ISO on One.
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Bah. I remembered something that makes One-scum less likely. Something to do with identities. I'll need to go find the exact post.
One, who's scum?
Still waiting on this btw.
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OK calm down everyone that was a gambit to test One.
And he passed.
I'm not willing to pursue him today over people like Xix and Moonin, I'll iso them to see which is worse.
He made an extremely good decision but he can still be scum because I self watched and he was the only one to visit me. Yay...
But his claim makes sense now with what he is though I'll try to see if I can detirmine what scum could have done to me last night that had no obvious effect, since I know nothing happened besides me just being targeted by One. This does not mean he can't be scum, just that role shenanigans say that I don't want him dead today if he's telling the truth.
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EBWOP: And he probably didn't do the nightkill unless scum can use actions and kill but meh.
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Lets see...(Attempting to skip RVS)
Mala: Moonin > Just > Moonin > FoS Iffrita > Day 2 Iffrita > Moonin > NKed. (Town)
Xix: Mala > Day 2 Mala > Moonin > Orwen > Mikhail.
Mikhail: Orwen > Xix > ???
Yuan: One > Iffrita > One > Day 2 Iffrita > (Drunk) Orwen > Moonin > One.
Miya: Iffrita > One > Just > Day 2 Iffrita > Orwen.
Depore: (Skipping to New) Iffrita > Orwen > Xix.
Moonin: One > Depore > Mala > Day 2 Miya > Orwen.
Iffrita: Mala > Xix > Depore > Mala > Day 2 Depore > Miya > Vigged (Scum)
Orwen: Mala > Just > Day 2 Mala > Xix > Xix > Moonin. Lynched (Town)
Caladbolg: Orwen > Just > Xix > Day 2 Mala > Miya.
One: Xix > Yuan > Just > Day 2 Miya > Orwen.
Navarus: Orwen > One > Dead (Town) > Day 2 Revived > Iffrita > Orwen.
Just vote patterns you don't have to mind this.
Unvote; Vote: One
Let's DO THIS.
Jumping the easy case now Yuan?
##Vote Yuan
@Yuan: You said yourself that you've never seen an alternating Role.
Yet you still believed in Miya, and immediated jumped me, when Miya declared that she has reason to claim me as scum. You seem alittle to willing to do that.
Ever since your case on me in day one, I believe you've been completely following popular opinion, as well as completely relying on others to do your work. You yourself have not fished for information. Why do I find your actions completely different from day 1?
If your basing everything on Day 1 then, I find that you have scum intent due to the fact that you are not making new information.
You call me opportunistic, yet right now your seeming pretty opportunistic when the fact someone has dirt on me popped out and declared it. I'll ask you what I've asked Just, Are you sure you are not scum yourself?
This might seem aggressive, but I seriously find your information to be lacking if your basing your Opinions completely on Day 1.
Your assumption that you had the ONLY protection role makes me baffled.
In a game where EVERYONE has a Power role, you assumed that your the only person in the game that possesses that 1 protection role?
The fact that your immediately denied my claim of having a protective role makes me believe you have scummy intent.
What this LIKELY means, is that there is NO DOCTOR in this setup. I'm the only protective role.
Are you sure you are not saying this to actually stay alive till the end?
Afterall who else besides scum want the so called "ONLY PROTECTIVE ROLE" dead?
TO declare this out means that your NOT afraid of getting nightkilled.
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Votecount of Fuxdamnit Can't Post In Yellow With This Forum Skin
Xix (1): Depore
Mikhail (1): Xix
One (1): Yuan
Yuan (1):One
Moonin (0): Yuan
Not Voting: Mikhail, Miya, Caladbolg, Moonin
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are 50.5 hours until Night 3.
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Haven't parsed the above case yet.
One, I can't remember if you said this before, but is this your first game of mafia?
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EBWOP: Also, what do you think of other players, like say, Xix and Moonin?
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Votecount of Dormio Shut Your Dog Up
Xix (1): Depore
Mikhail (1): Xix
One (1): Yuan
Yuan (1):One
Moonin (0): Yuan
Not Voting: Mikhail, Miya, Caladbolg, Moonin
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are 46 hours until Night 3.
Changing deadlines like a boss.
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One, I can't remember if you said this before, but is this your first game of mafia?
This is a question with a one-word answer. Please respond, because it's actually important to me in determining your alignment.
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Haven't parsed the above case yet.
One, I can't remember if you said this before, but is this your first game of mafia?
I never really declared yet, but yes this is my 1st game.
EBWOP: Also, what do you think of other players, like say, Xix and Moonin?
Our posts can be linked in where that we have not voted Empress Iffrita.
Moonin has truthfully claimed his role (this is assuming the Anon QT was from Moonin to Caladbolg) This makes me lean him towards town.
Xix, is a flight risk, since we do not know what happens when night 3 passes. We have to decide if we are willing to gamble letting Xix live till 3rd or not.
I personally think Not, after all "Unsealed Evil". Could be anything from being scum to ending the game right off the bat. Theres also the fact that he can be using this to Extend his Time. But this might be a bit to paranoid. This makes me lean towards 3rd party, after all his role seems completely for self preserving. That is...assuming he did not lie about it. If not 3rd, then its well...I don't know.
Man, From what I learned this mafia game,
I really don't focus on people that don't attack me V.V; .
This is a question with a one-word answer. Please respond, because it's actually important to me in determining your alignment.
Ah sorry, was trying to add onto that with an answer to your 2nd
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Oh, okay. I think One is town then. No, seriously. Not because he's new, but because of the conclusions that follow. I'll explain soon.
@One: Okay, so you think Yuan is scum. Do you think anyone could be scum with/in place of her?
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Depore, would you consider lynching non-Xix? Who?
Yuan, would you consider claiming your N1 target?
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Oh, okay. I think One is town then. No, seriously. Not because he's new, but because of the conclusions that follow. I'll explain soon.
@One: Okay, so you think Yuan is scum. Do you think anyone could be scum with/in place of her?
I do want to ask where Moonin's other half of his post is, but I suppose he must be mentally tired so I can drop that.
I agree with Moonin on the fact that Xix, disappearing for the whole Iffrita/Miya case is really suspicious.
There is also the fact that Xix's claim can be considered a post to extend his life, and not put as much suspicion on him.
So I believe that, at the moment Xix has a likely chance of being a scum.
Since his apparent role, "roleblocks" people that target him, with exceptions (Most likely 3rd Party Just) there is an unlikely chance he would be found as scum, outside of a lynch. Which makes him suspicious in my eyes. That is, if we believe his role claim.
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Home now. I've been able to psuedo-follow the game while out all day but never with enough time to think about the game, much less post. Sorry for the small posting window for me.
Ex-Book: Mikhail, by process of elimination (which I'll go over in a moment). I'd also be willing to entertain Yuan and Moonin but it would take a lot for me to do so, based on my general recollection of their presence and play (I haven't had time to look in-depth at any of them today). I should preface the rest of this post by saying that I think entertaining the idea of double-action scum is a terribad idea. I've only recall ever seeing it once on this site, and there's a very good reason for that related to how absurdly powerful it is for scum.
Now then. Assuming double-action scum is impossible, it's noteworthy that finding a scumpair amongst the "obvious suspects", Xix, One and Moonin, is practically impossible. One has claimed to be roleblocked, and the other two have claimed night actions that went through. All three of these claims have been substantiated by outside sources (Xix by Yuan, One by Miya, Moonin by you). If there's a scumpair amongst those three, where'd the kill come from? The only reasonable explanation would be a third party kill with Xix getting stopped from going on the NK, but I don't like going "but maybe third party!" if I don't have to, and you're asking me about who non-Xix votes I'd cast anyway, so. I'm not interested in pursuing you or Miya, and if One is scum I can't imagine what he would have been doing to Miya last night. This leaves Mikhail, not having reread his Day 1 yet (which I think I will need to do given his Day 3 hasn't been all that impressive thus far).
Speaking of One, I'll have to go over Yuan's Day 1 to find anything in his Yuan case I'd support. There's a lot of stuff in there that I raise an eyebrow at, and the entire case seems to disregard Yuan's counteractions to Iffrita, but again, letting people defend themselves.
Goddamnit why am I going back to reading Day 1 AGAIN ;_;
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@Depore: No, that's fine. I just wanted to clear something up. I don't think Moonin or One are scum even with the absence of role shenanigans, which means that either you, Mikhail, or Yuan is the remaining partner.
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Now then. Assuming double-action scum is impossible, it's noteworthy that finding a scumpair amongst the "obvious suspects", Xix, One and Moonin, is practically impossible. One has claimed to be roleblocked, and the other two have claimed night actions that went through. All three of these claims have been substantiated by outside sources (Xix by Yuan, One by Miya, Moonin by you). If there's a scumpair amongst those three, where'd the kill come from? The only reasonable explanation would be a third party kill with Xix getting stopped from going on the NK, but I don't like going "but maybe third party!" if I don't have to, and you're asking me about who non-Xix votes I'd cast anyway, so. I'm not interested in pursuing you or Miya, and if One is scum I can't imagine what he would have been doing to Miya last night. This leaves Mikhail, not having reread his Day 1 yet (which I think I will need to do given his Day 3 hasn't been all that impressive thus far).
Depore I never claimed roleblock.
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Sorry, I meant Xix, not you.
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Alright, since two of my 3 highest town reads have asked for a full claim, here it is.
I am Xix, the main character and I have an Unsealed Evil in me. I am also missing my heart. My ability is that I Roleblock anyone who targets me. The catch is that there are certain people who can bypass my roleblock. In addition, the mod really loves his wine because he mentioned that something might happen to me if I survive three nights without having my heart returned to me.
I cc'd the Jailer.
What do YOU think it was?
(Hint: It's the Jailer. I jailed you last night. The jail power protects you from kills, but also blocks your actions)
Yuan's post is about roleblocking Xix, yet...someone explain to me how you roleblock a person who roleblocks people who target him?
...Like seriously...whos roleblock goes 1st?
This is seriously confusing.
If we are to believe Xix's claim, then shouldn't his role counter roleblock Yuan's?
How does Xix get roleblocked in the 1st place, if his role ability is to beable to roleblock people who target him?
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The catch is that there are certain people who can bypass my roleblock.
PEOPLE. I DON'T KNOW WHO CAN BYPASS IT, BUT APPARENTLY YUAN CAN.
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PEOPLE. I DON'T KNOW WHO CAN BYPASS IT, BUT APPARENTLY YUAN CAN.
On this note then, I have to ask, Does Your Role Power Apply during the Day?
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Tucking in a Read on Mikhail before bed, so that I wouldn't otherwise have to notify the mods that I'm sleepy.
His logic is internally consistent. That's all there really is to say on the matter. My Read of Mikhail is, at this point, entirely dependent on whether Xix flips Scum or town. Xix has shot ahead in terms of most scummy with Miya's Recent Revelations, so I'm leaning Town for Mikhail.
so far, this makes it Xix < Yuan = One < Mikhail < Depore.
Bleh, I feel like I wasted the entire day.
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Wait a minute. Xix, you claimed to receive a message from the mods that you were roleblocked? Despite your ability being passive? And with a message that doesn't seem to match up with what Moonin/Depore claimed (need confirmation on this)?
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Unvote; Vote: Moonin
Kay, so One is town then. Thanks Miya.
One, it's not an opportunistic vote when the CLAIMED and PROVEN Watcher/Tracker says that they have a guilty result on you. That's called trusting power role results.
RE: My N1 action
I jailed Mala night one. If you remember from my original post, she was one of my suspects, but not many people suspected her? I thought if she was scum, she'd be a likely candidate for sending the kill.
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Indeed, my ability is passive. It only roleblocks during the night. I got a message on D2 stating that my ability was not activated, and D3 I got a message saying I tried to roleblock someone but got roleblocked first.
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Tucking in a Read on Mikhail before bed, so that I wouldn't otherwise have to notify the mods that I'm sleepy.
His logic is internally consistent. That's all there really is to say on the matter. My Read of Mikhail is, at this point, entirely dependent on whether Xix flips Scum or town. Xix has shot ahead in terms of most scummy with Miya's Recent Revelations, so I'm leaning Town for Mikhail.
so far, this makes it Xix < Yuan = One < Mikhail < Depore.
Bleh, I feel like I wasted the entire day.
Does anyone else think like this is Moonin setting up lynches?
Oh, my read on Mikhail depends on Xix! So, if Xix is scum, Mikhail is town~! (Implying that if Xix is town, Mikhail is scum).
Setting up lynches in a row like that is scummy, btw. (For those of you whose first game it is)
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At least Mikhail has had the decency to make rereading him easier by removing himself from the game for an entire day and not posting much when actually around. ヽ(￣▽￣)ノ
The word I'd use when reading over Mikhail's entire posting history is "uninspiring". There isn't a lot of anything in it, really. There's some content, but the content-per-living-day ratio is pretty unimpressive. I'm also noticing that, while he had been gung-ho on Xix on Day 1, he's held back on Xix today, despite Xix being his top read for a while and often being close behind Orwen (I presume the Depore suspicions have vanished along with Oldepore since he hasn't mentioned me since). He didn't even mention Xix in his opening post beyond naming him the list of obvious choices - I'd think someone that had been unable to post for almost an entire game day would have had something, anything to say about their top read at their first opportunity to post again.
It's also pretty convenient that he's suspicious of all three of the easy choices despite not having reread two of them. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg680375.html#msg680375) That line about Moonin just screams filler, too. What on earth does "Moonin, is just a natural target for today." mean? He's suspcious because he's an easy target?
Yeah, not liking this a lot.
Cut by Yuan criticizing Moonin for lining up lynches...while apparently trying to line up Xix and Mikhail lynches herself? Uh. You wanna explain yourself on that one?
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Speaking of which, Moonin, die. Confirmed role =/= Town role. You've been PRETTY DAMN LACKLUSTER in explaining why your scumreads are your scumreads. You only explain town reads, and that doesn't help, it just looks more like fluff. In addition, CONFIRMED TOWNIE MALA had THIS CASE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679222.html#msg679222) on you, and you just went and ignored it completely. YOU'VE HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO ANSWER. Die scum, you don't belong in this world!
##Unvote
##Vote: Moonin
Grrr two cuts.
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Also, One: I get the feeling that your vote for me is entirely based upon my voting for you.
I've had you as a scum read all game, and recently have weeded off of you.
When I heard that Miya had a result that was "confirming" you as scum, I was ready to roll. I always will follow the town tracker/watcher until they are wrong.
Your claim and target, being confirmed by Miya, makes you town again in my eyes, and so I unvoted.
Please stop tunneling on town, and look outside your blind voting.
What's your read on Moonin?
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At least Mikhail has had the decency to make rereading him easier by removing himself from the game for an entire day and not posting much when actually around. ヽ(￣▽￣)ノ
The word I'd use when reading over Mikhail's entire posting history is "uninspiring". There isn't a lot of anything in it, really. There's some content, but the content-per-living-day ratio is pretty unimpressive. I'm also noticing that, while he had been gung-ho on Xix on Day 1, he's held back on Xix today, despite Xix being his top read for a while and often being close behind Orwen (I presume the Depore suspicions have vanished along with Oldepore since he hasn't mentioned me since). He didn't even mention Xix in his opening post beyond naming him the list of obvious choices - I'd think someone that had been unable to post for almost an entire game day would have had something, anything to say about their top read at their first opportunity to post again.
It's also pretty convenient that he's suspicious of all three of the easy choices despite not having reread two of them. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg680375.html#msg680375) That line about Moonin just screams filler, too. What on earth does "Moonin, is just a natural target for today." mean? He's suspcious because he's an easy target?
Yeah, not liking this a lot.
Cut by Yuan criticizing Moonin for lining up lynches...while apparently trying to line up Xix and Mikhail lynches herself? Uh. You wanna explain yourself on that one?
When did I try to line up Xix/Mikhail lynches myself? I was explaining what Moonin was doing in HIS post. Derp.
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Oh, I see what you're seeing Depore. There should be "" marks around the second line. It was me paraphrasing what was going on in his post.
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@Yuan: Oh. That makes a lot more sense. I thought those were your opinions when I read that, sorry. ヽ(?ー｀)ﾉ
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Yeah, that's what I thought too. Since we're here though, what do you think of me and Mikhail?
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Yeah, that's what I thought too. Since we're here though, what do you think of me and Mikhail?
I think that's your likely town. I suspected you going into last night, but my RB on you + a kill happening last night makes me think better of you.
Plus, I get a good town vibe from you today.
My only worry with YOU is that you might turn into an ITP tonight, which would be BAD.
Mikhail has got me PARANOID.
I mean, reviving UK is a town thing to do.
But I mean, scum could easily have that power to look protown. And why did he use it so EARLY in the game? If it was only 1 shot, why wouldn't you wait until LATER in the game to use it, when more people are dead, and they have greater insight to offer?
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Votecount of Pink Text Withdrawl -_-
Xix (1): Depore
Yuan (1):One
Moonin (2): Yuan, Xix
One (0): Yuan
Mikhail (0): Xix
Not Voting: Mikhail, Miya, Caladbolg, Moonin
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are 41 hours until Night 3.
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Also, One: I get the feeling that your vote for me is entirely based upon my voting for you.
I've had you as a scum read all game, and recently have weeded off of you.
When I heard that Miya had a result that was "confirming" you as scum, I was ready to roll. I always will follow the town tracker/watcher until they are wrong.
Your claim and target, being confirmed by Miya, makes you town again in my eyes, and so I unvoted.
Please stop tunneling on town, and look outside your blind voting.
What's your read on Moonin?
@Yuan: Why do I get the feeling that while your giving me good advice, I still find you to be kind of controlling my actions to base around your logic?
As for your question.
@Moonin: I personally think should be leaning towards town, his actions of truthful claim, (which is still an assumption due to anon). But is still on a track to scummy.
Tucking in a Read on Mikhail before bed, so that I wouldn't otherwise have to notify the mods that I'm sleepy.
His logic is internally consistent. That's all there really is to say on the matter. My Read of Mikhail is, at this point, entirely dependent on whether Xix flips Scum or town. Xix has shot ahead in terms of most scummy with Miya's Recent Revelations, so I'm leaning Town for Mikhail.
so far, this makes it Xix < Yuan = One < Mikhail < Depore.
Bleh, I feel like I wasted the entire day.
For the fact of Yuan supposely being Equal to Me is a bit of surprise to me it does not make sense.
As for the "Xix has shot ahead in terms of most scummy".
I do not see his conviction that Xix is likely scum, after all he did not vote for who he believes to be "scummiest" now.
Why would that be I do not know, but from what I've learned so far in playing Mafia, to not vote for who you believe to be scummiest is strange and extremely questionable.
So I ask of Thee, why did you not vote for Xix, when you believe he is currently the scummiest?
If you believe Mikhail's logic is internally consistent, its even more reason for you to show your belief in that Xix is scum.
Also, you keep saying your read of XX depends XX flips town or scum.
If your so willing for a flip, why did you not add your vote to the list?
At the moment I will not change my vote to attack you, since it will leave you at L-2, We have quite a bit of time left, and we need all the time we can get with the deadline getting pushed closer.
However, at the moment I am quite willing to lynch on you.
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A smile on my face,
A gleam in my eye,
##Vote: Moonin
So, I reread day one, with Iffrita, Moonin, Xix, and One....
Iffrita had posts that originally attacked Xix for attacking the easy target of Moonin. The only thing she ever said directly to Moonin was a prod to ask for more posts. Not that she ever commented on them even when Moonin posted. Additionally Iffrita only had semi-positive things to talk about with Moonin, like... opinions expressing interests in lynching Depore, but nothing more serious. Iffrita had plenty of time to cast suspicion on Xix and One, regardless if it was bussing or not, but never ever, did she care about Moonin in the slightest. Moonin's Day 1 activity was not only minimal, but also arbitrary. His vote of Depore only came after expressing equal if not more suspicsion of Mala. It's true he voted Mala later, but by then She was a viable lynch. I think this is a classic case of seeing what sticks.
About One: His content and posts seem indepedant of other's (and Iffrita's) so he's more town than Moonin. With Miya's result, he should not be lynched today.
About Xix. I think... I was wrong. He does look a lot more town, in the same way Orwen looked more town at the VERY VERY end of Day2.
I haven't had much time.. so sorry about that. BUT ALSO THIS JUST IN!
Someone has given me the power to renew my ability to revive!
HERE IT COMES!
Prophet of chaos, I summon thy spirit Ho!
##Evocate Prophet Mala
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Votecount of Revivals Everywhere
Xix (1): Depore
Yuan (1):One
Moonin (2): Yuan, Xix, Mikhail
One (0): Yuan
Mikhail (0): Xix
Not Voting: Prophet Mala, Miya, Caladbolg, Moonin
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are about 40 hours until Night 3.
Prophet Mala has returned to the game.
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##Vote Yuan
##FoS Moonin
You are all scum. I counterclaim Yuan, I am the jailer. I will be back later.
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Mala, am I right in assuming that you jailed Moonin N1?
Because none of these night actions are adding up.
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Huh. Well then.
##Unvote: Xix
##Vote: Yuan
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On Night 1 I attempted to jail Empress Iffrita. My action failed. On Night 2 I successfully jailed Mikhael. I need to go now, but I have a lot of things to say when I return. I must make up for all that time I wasted being dead and not performing my divination.
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@One: I will admit to trying to direct you a bit. You're new to the game, and I have been convinced you were scum this whole game.
The recent events of your Claim and Miya's watcher confirming it makes me think you're town. (Which admittedly throws me for some loops).
So, now under the impression that you are town. And knowing that I am town, I know that you're simply being misguided and... well... wrong?
So I see NO ISSUES with me as town trying to help you as town avoid making newbie mistakes.
And you yourself admit that my advice seems like "good advice". That's because it is. It's coming from a protown motivation of helping you understand why the things you are saying are wrong. (I originally thought they were just scum driven, but now that I see otherwise I don't think town can afford to have you continue on this track).
If you feel this is scummy of me, I will stop. I can certainly see why you would be worried. But try to see what my INTENT behind this action is. That's where true scum hunting can be found. Not in the actions of players, but the INTENT of their actions.
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Um, you counter claim it Mala?
My role is PROVEN. I'm CLEARLY not lying about it.
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So all this means is that the town has a roleblocker and 2 jailers.
... and a reflexive roleblocker...
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Oh fucking shit son. So Demon was right about something being off about Yuan...
##Vote: Yuan
You know those isos I've been talking about? Well they are coming along but not tonight because day 1 is a cluster bleep, tomorrow morning I swear. :ohdear: From what I remember going over I do not think Yuan/Moonin scumteam is impossible.
The only thing that is proven about your role is that you roleblock...
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##Unvote
If you quicklynch Yuan I will be extremely angry at all of you.
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Because I have many things I need to say and not nearly enough time to say it all. If you cut my time even shorter, know that you will feel my wrath in the post-game.
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Oh fucking shit son. So Demon was right about something being off about Yuan...
##Vote: Yuan
You know those isos I've been talking about? Well they are coming along but not tonight because day 1 is a cluster bleep, tomorrow morning I swear. :ohdear: From what I remember going over I do not think Yuan/Moonin scumteam is impossible.
The only thing that is proven about your role is that you roleblock...
Yeah, exactly.
I have proven that I can roleblock.
So I'm either a roleblocker or a jailer.
In either case, I'm not lying about my role.
SO, how does this make me scum>?
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Oh my... L-1 I apologize.
##Unvote:
FOS: Yuan
Making me go back again and reread Yuan now.
I swear One unvoted earlier. >_>
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@Yuan: It would seem to suggest you're a scum roleblocker. Unless Mala's role is a significant deviation from the traditional Jailer, and given how she voted you immediately I kinda doubt it is.
Or if there's two Jailers I guess but not seeing that as likely.
@Miya: Mala already pulled off and made it L-2. :V
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Though I guess with the way Day 1 ended even L-2 isn't something to be completely secure in.
Argh, I needed to go to bed a half hour ago.
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@Yuan: It would seem to suggest you're a scum roleblocker. Unless Mala's role is a significant deviation from the traditional Jailer, and given how she voted you immediately I kinda doubt it is.
Or if there's two Jailers I guess but not seeing that as likely.
@Miya: Mala already pulled off and made it L-2. :V
So you're going to lynch me based on outguessing the mod's setup?
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zzz.
Well if Yuan is scum, then this was superbus mafia, Xix is probably town (though this is an uncertainty), and Depore is likely partner based on stuff I haven't said in thread yet.
Mikhail is basically confirmed town now btw.
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Although why the hell would Yuan counterclaim Iffrita? >_>
I guess if the scum team thought her claim was that bad and decided to superbus her, but...
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Yes, Iffrita's claim was 9 kinds of bad for reasons all over day 2. Keep that in mind so bussing was probably going on then.
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What. The. Hell. Just happened?!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Although why the hell would Yuan counterclaim Iffrita? >_>
I guess if the scum team thought her claim was that bad and decided to superbus her, but...
DING DING DING.
Why the hell would I do that as scum? It makes NO SENSE.
You guys are going to lynch ME over obv scum Moonin... because someone ELSE claimed jailer.
Yes, I understand the townjailer/scum jailer stigma.
But this is how town loses games. By questioning the mod. The mod OBVIOUSLY had a reason for putting these in the game. Very likely scum is not roleblockable.
Think about it, Xix's role almost CONFIRMS that. "Some people can get through my roleblock"
That's the OTHER ROLEBLOCKERS and THE SCUM.
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Votecount of Oh, There's Activity Again
Yuan (2): One, Mala, Depore, Miya
Moonin (2): Yuan, Xix, Mikhail
One (0): Yuan
Mikhail (0): Xix
Xix (0): Depore
Not Voting: Miya, Caladbolg, Moonin, Mala
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are about 39 hours and 40 mins until Night 3.
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I'd like to point out the post where Depore voted Iffrita (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678252.html#msg678252) again.
I thought it was a bullshit reason then (how was Miya supposed to be an overzealous townie when she was lurking the day away) and it looks weak enough in hindsight to be a bus post. Also note the waffly paragraph on Yuan, and the lack of mentions of her today.
All this is working off Moonin town, so I'm going to actually have to reread him again to see if that still holds. Moonin isn't helping by being absent for most of today.
Cut by Yuan. I'm going to wait for Mala to return before making any concrete conclusions. But 2 town jailers is pretty unlikely. Note that Mala hasn't actually claimed her role yet.
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Actually, thinking over it, Yuan/Xix makes sense too. Okay, let me actually read them.
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Ugh, I have no idea how to interpret the way things are going on here. I WANT A MIKHAIL FULL CLAIM.
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Mikhail isn't alive right now you derp. Have you not been reading the thread?
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I'd just like to say that Moonin's QT has 2 posts from him, and neither of them contain any reads. What the hell, Moonin.
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EBWOP: I still think he fits lazy town more than scum though. >_>
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Don't you know that Mikhail should have a QT with them? Demon Navarus did Mikhail's claim for him, so why can't Mala full claim?
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Oh, right. Well, we have to wait for Mala then.
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Although why do you want a Mikhail full claim?
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This town would be making a huge mistake to lynch me at this juncture.
Based on role mechanics/setup, which is all done by mod.
You have NO IDEA what powers the scum could have.
Lynch based on SCUM INTENT and scum reads. Not this "LET'S OUTGUESS THE MOD LOL" stuff.
Moonin is still the best lynch.
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He claimed one shot reviver. Suddenly SOMEONE gave him the ability to use his power again. This seems a little TOO damn situational. Not to mention that he is removed from the game at this point, choosing a time when he was coming under fire. I'm still suspicious from him, so I want a full claim.
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Another thing is that the wagon on Yuan is pretty damn ridiculous. Just because Yuan was counterclaimed doesn't make her scum, and Yuan was a high town target for you guys. Seriously?
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It's more the fact that Mala claims to have counterclaimed Yuan's exact role, making the possibility that they are both town extremely unlikely.
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That. And we know for a fact Mala is town. So~ Words from Mala will be really good.
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I am a jailer. I forcefully commute my target, which also makes them unable to act during that night. This means that any and all other actions performed against my target will fail that night. I am able to target myself with this ability, but I am told that there will be a downside to doing so. I do not believe Yuan's claim. I have my reasons for this and I will post them in a few hours. Moonin is still scum. I will post the reasons for this in a few hours. I have a QT with Mikhael. I believe One's claim.
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Caladbolg #930: Here's a fun fact. Moonin did not specifically counterclaim Empress Iffrita's jailer claim. Yuan only stated that she had reasons to believe that the Jailer part of Empress Iffrita's claim was false. Extremely vague wording. I will post more about this in a few hours.
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To elaborate on the Yuan being vague thing, I think that she is the scum rolecop/roleblocker. More on this later.
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Uh ok. Could you expand on what "forcefully commute" means; is that just flavor? Also, full claim if you haven't already (and answer PX's questions about Mikhail).
Yuan needs to fullclaim as well.
Also this is unrelated but why the hell did you choose to target who you targeted?
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Oh crap sorry. -_-
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Err, I meant Xix. Don't know where that PX thing came from. (Mods if you could edit that, that would be great, otherwise whatever).
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As for One, I don't think this is One's first game, but even if it is, I think that the contents of the RVS would be enough for him to realize that late votes on wagons look rather iffy.
I really wish I could agree against Depore but I really, really can't get past how DollS-like her play is at this point.
Pretty sure you're talking about the wrong newbie there.
Hey guys this is why One is town. I know the player playing Iffrita prides herself on her ability to identify anonymous players. It looks like, for all intents and purposes, Iffrita thought One was DollS! The problem is that One is not DollS! Q.E.D.
If you want a more standard case, I read One as town beforehand, and I think that Iffrita's defense of one reads more like scum whiteknighting a townie than scum tying herself to a scumbuddy. I will expand on this later when I'm not feeling like I'm going to throw up.
As for Moonin, it looks like Iffrita was trying to use his logic to springboard off on a Mala lynch D1. In addition, his stance on the D2 fiasco was logical and clear, even if he did end up on the wrong side. I lean town on him. I'll need to look over interactions again.
I realize the above cases are crap, but it's the best I can come up right now with without undue exertion. I still don't like Xix, but I'm bound to believe Yuan's claim that she roleblocked Xix, which basically clears him as likely town if Yuan is scum.
So basically I'm going to reread Depore.
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And I forget that Yuan could easily be lying if she's scum.
Okay, scratch that entire Xix paragraph.
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@Caladbolg #952: I have already claimed in full. Every night I pick a target. Said target becomes action immune for the night but they are also roleblocked as a consequence.
@Xix #941: "so why can't Mala full claim?" I said that I didn't have the time and that I would explain everything when I did have the time.
Why do you people not understand that Moonin is scum? I believe that One is town. I believe that Mikhael is town. I am leaning town on Xix and Princess Miya and Caladbolg. Moonin and Yuan are scum.
Moonin: Do something, scum. There's this thing called an OPINION. It's a really townie thing to have but you STILL lack one. I would also like for you to address my points against you in #93, #109, #262, #336, #364, #471, #567 and #741. Moonin claimed that he was a neighbourizer. It looked like a counterclaim to Empress Iffrita's neighbourizer charge on her JoaT. But if it's one way, it's hardly a neighbourizer at all. I like how you failed to mention this and how you tried to defend her reason for why the neighbourizing of UK failed.
When Yuan first stated that she had reason to disbelieve Empress Iffrita's claim of jailer as part of her JoaT in #377 ("Further, I have role related reasons to know that the one-shot Jailor claim is almost certainly false .") I thought it was because she was a rolecop and had rolecopped me and therefore knew that there was another jailer in the game. Note how she did not mention this aspect again. Naturally she claims to be a jailer AFTER I die. I believe that she was caught out by Mikhael's evoke today.
##Vote Yuan
I want to see Yuan and Moonin both killed and mangled.
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And Mikhael would like to note that Xix's #937 sounds like unnecessary fishing and weird.
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@Caladbook: Overzealous in method, not in post count. Day 2 Miya, when she posted, looked like she stumbling all over herself out of overeagerness.
@Mala: If Yuan/Moonin is your proposed scumpair, who do you think killed you?
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I think that Yuan was the one that killed me. Why?
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Even though Yuan claimed to roleblock Xix, Xix confirmed that he was roleblocked, and no one else has claimed to have targeted Xix with a roleblocking action?
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I suppose that's true though I haven't actually given much thought to the identity of my killer.
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It's more a question of "Yuan targeted Xix, Moonin targeted Caladbook, so which had the time to kill anyone if they're a scumpair" than asking you to speculate who might have killed you.
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I believe that Demon Navarus asked the mods earlier about whether or not scum were allowed to perform a kill in addition to their abilities. If I recall correctly we did not receive a response but we cannot rule out the possibility. I will try to post again later but right now I need to go perform as much divination as I can.
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Votecount of Because We Need It On Every Page
Yuan (3): One, Mala, Depore, Miya, Mala
Moonin (2): Yuan, Xix, Mikhail
One (0): Yuan
Mikhail (0): Xix
Xix (0): Depore
Not Voting: Miya, Caladbolg, Moonin
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are about 33 hours until Night 3.
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Oh, my read on Mikhail depends on Xix! So, if Xix is scum, Mikhail is town~! (Implying that if Xix is town, Mikhail is scum).
That's exactly what I'm implying.
The major case against Mikhail is that he's been holding four major scum reads, three of which are town, the other is Xix. If Mikhail is Scum, than his gameplan was to maintain these reads, and spend as little possible time in the game while supporting town making their decisions. His role effectively makes him a super cheerleader by having him give his position away temporarily to a townie, and since it's his role, we can't use that to determine if he's scum or town. All that's left is to grade him on the stuff he posted himself, and from that, all there is is four mostly unchanging yet building reads, that we know are anywhere between 3/4 wrong and 4/4 wrong. 3/4 wrong is a standard hit percentage for town to make when guessing, so the scumminess comes from the last 1.
So I ask of Thee, why did you not vote for Xix, when you believe he is currently the scummiest?
Because I still had two rereads left, and considering my current scummiest had an if, then statement attached to Mikhail, who is slightly above Null (Null being One and Yuan), I decided not to leave a vote until I at least had been sure. Granted, even though I'm trying to justify it, it is a stupid thing to do since not having a vote out always leads to being calling you scum for being anti-town.
Regardless, I think the likelihood of a Xix; Yuan partnership has greatly increased with Mala's revival. This pairing easily gets around the Scum action limit (if there is one) By Yuan's target simply being a lie.
##Vote: Xix
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##Unvote
##Vote Moonin
I'd much rather see this lynch than Yuan's at this point. I still have to organize my thoughts regarding Yuan but I don't think I'll be able to do this today.
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I've thought about it, and yeah, I'm not as apprehensive of my lynch as I was a little while ago. I don't see how Mikhail as scum would bother using the second revival if he was given it. One doesn't look bad, and between him and Miya, I don't see how One would be scum. I'm sure everyone who's town is holding the top three suspects at Me, Xix, and Yuan, and since we have a mislynch, town should still be able to win with me out of the way.
I'm sorry that I'm so frustratingly slow with my reads.
I still have to organize my thoughts regarding Yuan but I don't think I'll be able to do this today.
Today meaning in game, or today meaning before you go to bed? Because you won't be able to post after phase change.
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Or I can go beyond the impossible and get this post out there.
One, Mikhael, Princess Miya, and Caladbolg are probably town. This leaves the interesting part. From least scummiest to scummiest:
Depore: I highly dislike Depore's #469. Oldepore had rather bad play but most of the new Depore's posts have made sense. A reread is required in the near future.
Xix: I need a reread on him. I have been disliking the wagons on him and the like, as well as Empress Iffrita's singling out of Xix in #628.
Yuan: I highly dislike her #849. She seems far too eager to jump on wagons just like how she admitted that she was sheeping to Demon Navarus' Sage Orwen case. In addition I believe that the timing of her claim reeks of opportunism. She did wait until I was dead to clarify that the reason for her dislike of Empress Iffrita's was that she was a jailer.
Moonin: I would also like for you to address my points against you in #93, #109, #262, #336, #364, #471, #567, #741 and #957. Your refusal to even acknowledge that my posts exist has been noted. I also like the reasoning you had for voting for Sage Orwen at the end of Day 2... Wait. What reasoning? Just die already, scum.
@Xix: You've fullclaimed so allow me to ask you about your earlier crumbs. Do you really want Nex dead?
@Moonin #968: "I'm sure everyone who's town is holding the top three suspects at Me, Xix, and Yuan, and since we have a mislynch, town should still be able to win with me out of the way." "I'm sorry that I'm so frustratingly slow with my reads." This reeks of appeal to emotion or something like that. I've been asking you for you opinions since Day 1, you've had plenty of time.
If Moonin flips scum and Yuan does not, my suspicions of Mikhael will increase significantly.
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@Mod: If I am lynched, does Mikhael die?
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Appeal to Emotion is not a scumtell.
93: First case is opportunism and active lurking. Everything is opportunism, and as I've said before, I've stated everything needed on my Case on Xix and One when I random voted them (which was nothing, and the wagon onto Xix for bad reasoning, respectively).
109: I already answered this one. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676897.html#msg676897) I was saying the Depore was parroting you. That's why I voted her over you at that time.
262: Everyone had a bad case on Xix, not just One. I put One ahead of everyone because he was L-1, but considering the L-1 thing a nulltell, that made me back off a little on him. The only person that seemed to have had a good case on Xix was iffritas, and that was probably because she was the only one on the wagon who knew Xix was scum for certain.
336: The main bad points about the case is that a large part of it consists of me encouraging bandwagons to move forward, which is actually something that's pro-town. Even if you make the argument that I'm faking pro-town movement on the bandwagons, it's still not so much "opportunism" as you said. Opportunism implies that I was voting Xix to lynch right out from the starting gate.
364: He disliked One before finding that his read on One was null before deciding that he's STARTING to dislike One again. Depore has been making scumslips but only if certain other people are scum. He doesn't even tell us WHICH people need to be scum for Depore's scumslips to be actual scumslips.
Okay, this is my bad. What I was getting at was that I was seeing Oldepore as a newbie-scum follow the leader mindset. Oldepore was using a fomulaic method of scumhunting to the point that it seemed to be easily faked. Also, I saw the Depore was clinging pretty heavily to One's vote, and supporting it. I was very wary of the Just wagon, because of the One, Depore, Mala trio, I figured you were the only townie. I had a One/Depore scumtheory in mind that banked on One being Scum, and Depore being really derpy.
471: This is just an update, which I covered all above. Yes, I did sort of forget about One and Depore, but Depore had a replacement by the time I posted, and everyone was ignoring One anyway. Okay, yeah, I derped up hard when it came to dealing with Iffritas vs Miya, in more ways than one.
567: The only thing I could answer to in this post was where my Town read from Iffritas came from. It was a lingering memory from day one, from the case on Xix in which I said Iffritas was the only townie on the wagon because she was the only one who had a real case on Xix. In retrospect, that was again probably only the case because they were scum together, but it left a strong impression in my mind, and I stuck to that impression.
741: I do have an answer to why I've ignored your case on me: It's because I think you're town. I've thought you were town since the wagon failure between you and Just. Though, that was because I also thought Miya was scum at the time, but still. You were town, I am town, therefore, you are town, and wrong, therefore, i ignored you.
957: I was caught off guard between my read on Iffritas, and the role shenanigans. All of the flimfy justification I came up with was based around "Iffritas is town, claimed partially my role, and partially the role Yuan claimed to have had, this is how the setup must work." My justifications all turned out bad because all of them assumed Iffritas town, which was not true.
Also, If Mikhail and I are scumpartners, then what is the value of bringing back the person most suspicious of me from the dead when Mikhail could easily have just plodded along pretending he can't?
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Keep in mind that the weakneses of my role, and the fact that it was intended to be anonymous, and the Iffritas' claim seemed to be for communcation purposes made me think that even though our roles did the same thing, they were for two entirely different purposes. This is why I stilled believed Iffritas even though I CCed her.
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@One: I will admit to trying to direct you a bit. You're new to the game, and I have been convinced you were scum this whole game.
The recent events of your Claim and Miya's watcher confirming it makes me think you're town. (Which admittedly throws me for some loops).
So, now under the impression that you are town. And knowing that I am town, I know that you're simply being misguided and... well... wrong?
So I see NO ISSUES with me as town trying to help you as town avoid making newbie mistakes.
And you yourself admit that my advice seems like "good advice". That's because it is. It's coming from a protown motivation of helping you understand why the things you are saying are wrong. (I originally thought they were just scum driven, but now that I see otherwise I don't think town can afford to have you continue on this track).
If you feel this is scummy of me, I will stop. I can certainly see why you would be worried. But try to see what my INTENT behind this action is. That's where true scum hunting can be found. Not in the actions of players, but the INTENT of their actions.
Whats this suppose to be, appeasement?
"I see NO ISSUES with me as town trying to help you as town avoid making newbie mistakes."
You say you won't give me the newbie treatment. Yet your willing to help me avoid newbie mistakes.
You assumed I was scum throughout the game, yet now you say you were helping a "townie"
Why in the world would town supposely HELP her strongest SCUM read?
His last post is a ball of appeasement and not really explaining why he did anything. Just... "Oh Yeah, Right."
I don't like it.
Furthermore, this "Everyone had an equal chance to be scum, so moving my vote would be BAD!" is just crap anyway.
This is utter denial and not even a reason to tell me why its crap. How is this helping me?
This
So you want me to explain MAFIA THEORY to you now? Good Lord.
Appeasement is scummy because it's a way for scum to try and deflect and avoid suspicion. Scum has clear motivation to do it.
Your post is a ball of appeasement as well, just like Just when he was willing to drop me to kill someone else. So following this means, You are scum, and want the attention off you as fast as possible. Since I was the one who mainly had targets on you, you also wanted me lynched as fast as possible. Afterall, the ones you targeted hardest were the ones who voted on you. To think you had such a heavy case on me early game and now your completely willing to drop even, with apparent APPEASEMENT.
WHY would a townie help her strongest scum read? This is more of a indirect control of my actions to base it upon your logic.
Also the fact that you claimed the EXACT same role as a Deceased Townie makes it even worse!
I will not change my vote, Yuan is officially my strongest scum read. I shall state again,
What Kind Of Town Helps Her Strongest Scum Read?!
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Votecount of Off To Work
Yuan (2): One, Mala, Depore, Miya, Mala
Moonin (3): Yuan, Xix, Mikhail, Mala
Xix (1): Depore, Moonin
One (0): Yuan
Mikhail (0): Xix
Not Voting: Miya, Caladbolg
With 8 alive, you require 5 to lynch.
There are about 28 hours and 45 minutes until Night 3.
@Mod: If I am lynched, does Mikhael die?
That is role specific information that we will not answer.
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You're not my strongest scum read anymore One. You're being a fucking idiot.
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Whatever it is you want to tell others, I trust you can do so with mutual respect and understanding. Hostilities are pass?.
No chances here.
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You're not my strongest scum read anymore One. You're being a fucking idiot.
Are you disgreading my other points?
Plus, whats this? Meaningless agression?
Save this for after the game.
Is this suppose to make me want to lynch you any less?
If so, its definitely not working.
Also, If you are town you should have not been worried about getting killed.
To go from reason to immediate aggression. This makes it even more scummy.
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I'd also like to say this.
Mala, your ability means that ALL abilities targeting your target fail?
My ability only stops kills and roleblocks my target. Any actions going out fail, but only kills going in fail.
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Are you disgreading my other points?
Plus, whats this? Meaningless agression?
Save this for after the game.
Is this suppose to make me want to lynch you any less?
If so, its definitely not working.
Also, If you are town you should have not been worried about getting killed.
To go from reason to immediate aggression. This makes it even more scummy.
You had other points?
Your entire case on me is that I was voting you, and then I tried to defend myself and show you that you were wrong.
In other words, you have NOTHING.
Tell me, why does scum vote Iffrita D1 and D2, and lynch Iffrita over Miya from the GET GO on D2?
Why does scum counterclaim Ifffrita?
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You had other points?
Your entire case on me is that I was voting you, and then I tried to defend myself and show you that you were wrong.
In other words, you have NOTHING.
Tell me, why does scum vote Iffrita D1 and D2, and lynch Iffrita over Miya from the GET GO on D2?
Why does scum counterclaim Ifffrita?
Bussing
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Hyper Bussing, indeed. :roll:
Had I been scum, I could have easily pushed the lynch or kill onto Miya that day. She was REALLY suspected.
Instead, I was voting Iffrita since the start of the day.
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You also completely ignored my point about appeasement.
The fact that you completely forgot about your own words, and used appeasement to get me off your back itself is scummy.
WIFOM
You could have done it for the sake of looking more townie.
There is also the fact that if you went for Miya and she flipped town, you will lose all your town creds.
The fact that you attacked Iffrita from the start can be considered that you knew she was a scum and that voting her was a way to earn more town creds as well when she flips.
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You also completely ignored my point about appeasement.
The fact that you completely forgot about your own words, and used appeasement to get me off your back itself is scummy.
WIFOM
You could have done it for the sake of looking more townie.
There is also the fact that if you went for Miya and she flipped town, you will lose all your town creds.
The fact that you attacked Iffrita from the start can be considered that you knew she was a scum and that voting her was a way to earn more town creds as well when she flips.
You still don't understand Appeasement.
I'm not appeasing you. I'm telling you ~KINDLY~ that you're a fucking idiot who doesn't know what he is doing.
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Warnings aren't meant to be ignored. Especially if they were just a few posts ago. Carry on for now whilst a decision is being made.
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Warnings aren't meant to be ignored. Especially if they were just a few posts ago. Carry on for now whilst a decision is being made.
Oh, that was at me? >.>
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Yuan, the Barrier Master has been modkilled.
Vote count is reset. Continue as before.
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...Okay...
Yuan: Scum
Yuan: claimed role for Xix
Yuan: Not much of a saying on Xix at all. Pretty much ignored Xix all game.
##Vote Xix
With Yuan flipping scum, I find Xix to have the highest likely chance of being Scum.
Yuan claimed to have role blocked Xix, Xix's so called role, did not counter.
Therefore the exceptions can be considered scum. Surviving N3 is now likely to scum. Therefore Xix is scum.
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Re##Vote: Xix
This should make it Seven alive, two mislynches, four needed to vote, and L-2 for Xix.
Bad Karma indeed.
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##Vote Moonin
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Seriously Mala? You went ahead and voted Moonin over the person you counter-claimed?
Anyway, I think Xix is the last scum. Depore is secondary choice. Moonin is still town. I'll need time to read Yuan/Iffrita/? interactions first, so don't you derps dare quickhammer.
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Votecount of Something Relevant To Situation Here Lol
Xix (2): One, Moonin
Moonin (1): Xix
Not Voting: Miya, Depore, Mala, Caladbolg
With 7 alive, you require 4 to lynch.
There are about 23 hours until Night 3.
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Stuff like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676088.html#msg676088)makes me think Moonin is town. There's also a lot of defense of Xix in the early game. I'm not sure how I missed this before. I'm still wary about Depore, because he seems to occupy that cherished Neutral spot in Yuan's reads, but I don't know if it's as bad as her proxy defense of Xix. IIRC, Iffrita was also semi-defending Xix by attacking the people on his wagon by the end of the day.
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I'm just going to stand by that Yuan is known as bussing scum.
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Okay Xix. In the case that Moonin dies and flips town, who would you pursue afterwards?
Not currently game related:
Also Mala, I just realized that two people seemingly claimed jailer powers on D2 (Iffrita and Yuan) and you didn't say anything at the time? :V
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Although actually I just realized that if Iffrita's JoaT fakeclaim contained her buddy's jailer, it might not be too much of a stretch that she would include her buddy's neighborizer power as well (because it's an anonymous neighborizer).
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EBWOP: Although in that case I'm not sure what the hell she was trying to get out of her fakeclaim.
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At the time I believed that Yuan was going to claim being a rolecop and so I wanted to wait and see what Yuan would do. I didn't expect to be killed that night.
##FoS Moonin
I will reread the game in a couple of hours. Suspicions of Mikhael dropped with Yuan's scumflip.
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My switch between Yuan and Moonin: I wanted both of them dead and it is true that I had to organize my thoughts some more in regards to Yuan. In hindsight though it is my bad.
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Oh hi.
##FoS: Xix instead of a vote because I'm going to be going back out very soon and I would rather not have any accidental hammers regardless of their likelihood.
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Ok so
##FOS: Xix, will probably vote near deadline
Both Xix and Yuan have placed pressure on Moonin at various points of the game. Iffrita spent the whole game making connections with him and the way scum played it out (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676088.html#msg676088) looks almost like they were setting him up for a mislynch.
However I have not gone over Depore extensively but I shall now.
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Depore Yuan interactions day 1 start about here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676143.html#msg676143)
Yuan's response (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676146.html#msg676146) feels more like setup and lynch the weaker player because of a silly mistake than bussing. I don't think scum would be ballsy enough to super bus each other that much, that early in the game since she keeps going on here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676149.html#msg676149) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676155.html#msg676155), especially when it was a bad case since it appeared to be more newbie mistake than scummy intent as she was trying to rectify.
Then the point that it could be a deflection of One (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676194.html#msg676194). Since I'm writing One off as town at this jecture, I really think this was scum trying to mislynch and not bus.
Empress Iffrita comes in brandishing support for her scum buddy only to further my read as Depore town and pushes this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676250.html#msg676250) and her scum read on Depore for the rest of her time alive. Then Yadda yadda yadda, she pushes Depore onto others. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676393.html#msg676393)
Really wants this baby (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676893.html#msg676893) to go through
Just the fact that both scum were pushing for a Depore lynch from DAY ONE when optimal play is to mislynch a townie makes me think, yeah she is town.
I would think the scum team would say something to her as to not draw attention to herself as she has done as shown in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676779.html#msg676779)
More indepth Xix:
Empress still defends here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676425.html#msg676425) as she would prefer her mislynches over her partner.
Remember how she dropped her stronger case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg675852.html#msg675852) on Xix for a weaker Depore one?
This now looks a helluva lot worse considering her flip, just more defense towards her partner in an indirect way, since she was much more blatant in her defense of One. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676626.html#msg676626)
This was mostly day 1 stuff, stay tuned for part day 2!
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Yeah, so, I'm basically set on Xix at this point. I think One, Miya and Moonin are all impossibilities based on rolestuffs confirmed by other players. If it's not Xix then it's Mikhail.
Mala, would you be especially irked by a Xix lynch, given you'll be silenced the instant it comes to be? If not I'll throw a vote down and be done with it.
Also, in sitting here without much to discuss and wondering what to do, I remembered this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg680984.html#msg680984) and not fully addressing it here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg681138.html#msg681138) due to still being half-asleep and getting ready for work! Don't forget that there was also this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679384.html#msg679384) aspect to my vote. The original vote post doesn't look like much, but I didn't want to mention the roleblocking stuffs and most of the good points were taken, so that vote post was me finding what little extra I could.
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You guys seem pretty damn adamant on lynching me at this point, so why the hell are we stalling? Nobody is talking about anything, and there's pretty much no way for me to change your mind. Get on to it!
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Is that right? You have nothing to say in your defense?
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You guys are going to lynch me because Iffrita "defended" me and Yuan's claim along with mine. What do you expect me to do?
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Xix: You could start by giving your reads, like you haven't really been doing since D1.
Pretty much agree that Depore is unlikely to be scum because it would require a hard bus, but a hard bus is not as unlikely as it seems, due to what we know of Yuan/Iffrita interactions. Also I'm paranoid because I know NeoDepore to be a skilled player as scum. :V In any case, it's not relevant if Xix is scum. Still, I'd like a few more hours to get a Depore reread in and post my opinions, then we can hammer or whatever.
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Hey man, this is my first game ever.
Ttlly srs. (?･ω･`)
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What's left to do? Everyone besides Mala FoSed or Voted Xix, All ties from the flipped scum lead to Xix being the last scum buddy while everyone else except maybe Mikhail is town.
Well, I'm not trying to rush people, but I need something to post anyway.
My read of Depore town has remained unchanged from my last posts. So has my reads between Xix and Mikhail, with Xix being more likely scum than Mikhail.
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You know where I stand, Mikhail and Moonin.
That said, if we're going to stall, I still want Mikhail's full claim ASAP, before someone else dies, and Moonin's.
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Votecount of Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard!!!!!!!!!!!
Xix (2): One, Moonin
Moonin (1): Xix
Not Voting: Miya, Depore, Mala, Caladbolg
With 7 alive, you require 4 to lynch.
There are about 12 hours until Night 3.
Because, y'know, you don't need this much time to discuss, right?
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My apologies for the late response, I did not expect it to be so hard to stop divining once I had started.
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We lost 5 hours on the clock why again? :ohdear:
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@Xix: #969 "@Xix: You've fullclaimed so allow me to ask you about your earlier crumbs. Do you really want Nex dead?" This is a question that I am still curious about. Your attempts to fish for roles when dying has been noted.
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I will support a Xix lynch today. If Xix is not scum, then I believe that either Depore or Moonin are likely to be scum.
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You have more things you want to grace us with Mala?
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I am currently trying to organize my thoughts. Divination takes a rather large toll on both the body and mind.
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Wtf are you talking about, Nex isn't a player. Read Cavalier of the Abyss.
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So does this mean that you are not after Nex? I know almost nothing of the flavor, I would like an explicit answer.
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One word: Roleplaying.
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I don't actually think that I'll be able to post any more coherent thoughts today. I'm sorry.
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Mikhael would like to note that Xix's claim of roleplaying is weird.
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I am willing to see the day end with Xix's lynch if everybody else is.
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Going to bed.
##Vote: Xix
L-1.
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FINALLY
I HATE EVERYTHING
##VOTE XIX
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HAMMER SHUT UP!
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Day 3 has ended.
Xix, the Unsealed Evil has been lynched.
Prophet Mala has disappeared.
Mikhail has returned to the game.
It is now Night 3. You have 24 hours to submit actions to the 3 mods. Also for the heck of it, you can also submit anonymafia guesses as well.
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Resolving Night Actions.
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All Night Actions resolved.
The collective gathered in the morning to find that One's body had been strung up to the cathedral roof and was dangling over their heads. Obviously, he's dead.
On Night 3, One, the Mercenary, was bereft of life.
----
Votecount of F-F-F-F-Fourth Day!
Not Voting: Everyone!
With 5 alive, you require 3 to lynch!
Day 4 ends in 72 hours.
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Everyone will now state who they targeted last night. Go.
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Any particular order?
In any case, I don't have any targeted night actions.
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As long as everybody claims. Also. Everyone voice their opinion on if they think scum can use active night abilities AND nightkill or not.
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I don't think the mod ever clarified on that, did he?
I'm inclined to think "no," but past experience with role shenanigans has led me to believe that relying on that when you don't know the setup is like shooting yourself in the foot before going to work because you think your friend will give you a ride like he usually does.
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Also I think I have information that might clear [REDACTED] but that can come after target claims.
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No more night actions here. Couldn't/Didn't target anyone last night.
Knowing Bard and with presumably a 3-scum setup in a game of 13, I would be extremely surprised (and a little bit annoyed) by double-night-action scum, and will only really entertain it if other outstanding information logically forces it.
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I want an answer from Depore if she renewed my ability to revive before full claiming
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I'll need to fullclaim before I can answer Miya.
I have three different abilities.
First, I can Psycholink once per night. This is the ability I used on Caladbolg. The quicktopic is still active, even though I don't use it for anything.
Secondly, Once per game, during the day, I can mindread. This is the exact same thing as psycho linking, except the target sends messages instead. I cannot use this ability on the same person I have a Psycholink with. Caladbolg can confirm that I've claimed these abilities before.
My third ability, is that once per night, instead of making a psycholink, I can choose to eat a person's dreams. If I do so, I learn what their biggest wish is. I didn't think this to be a useful investigating role until night 2, after it was demanded that I psycholink with someone to prove my role. I discounted it because it sounded like pure flavor. I didn't get the chance to use it until last night.
As for the result: One's biggest wish was to bake a wonderful pie. A shame, too, since I would have loved to tasted it.
As for the role/kill thing, I doubt it's possible to do both at once, but I can't say for certain. My role does specifically prevent me from taking two actions at once, though.
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Mikhail: I didn't do any such thing.
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Wait.
Moonin, why did you try to prove your role by targeting the player most likely to get killed (due to both their role the general positive opinion of them) and thus, in dying, not be able to confirm what you say is true?
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*due to both their role AND the general positive opinion of them
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Derp.
As for Moonin, I can confirm that the first two abilities were claimed, but the third ability is wtf.
I didn't think this to be a useful investigating role until night 2, after it was demanded that I psycholink with someone to prove my role.
Uhh...demanded by who? >_>
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I thought Miya was the target most likely to be killed Night 2. Also, I didn't want to pick anyone who was scum since they would be able to make up all sorts of things I didn't actually say to use against me, or the town.
Cut: It was demanded by UK, though if I remember it was because Mikhail wanted it. The posts aren't up anymore since the conversation happened after my L+1 and therefore, according to Bard, didn't happen in the first place.
Yeah, my third ability is pretty what. It was pretty much incidental. I wasn't going to claim it, but then it happened that I targeted the guy who died.
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Did you think One was town when you targeted him?
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And if I'm parsing this correctly, you initially claimed your ability after the L+1 when UK was there?
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I didn't know what to think actually. I sent in the action after preparing to go to bed, and after I learned that the game hadn't ended. If it's any consolation, I do regret not picking Mikhail for my target.
And no, the role target conversation was in relation to my neighborizer/the quicktopic I made with you. I had claimed to be neighborizer early on in day 2, and UK asked me to claim a target who would then confirm I could use the role. I claimed I would pick you.
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@Depore: just checking.
I'm pretty sure Depore should full claim now anyway.
So yeah full claim.
Broken Role and Scum Raging at Mod incoming.
I can Revive, you all know that.
Perhaps you didn't know that I can revive everyday. I lied, so scum wouldn't NK me, since I thought reviving the NK each day was more important than any other possible role. The person I revive shares a QT with me. After the day phase ends, the spirit (read person revived) goes back to the grave. If my target dies within the day by some targetted ability, I die also. After I revive I can't post or vote, or do my other allowed action
I am also an innocent child role, wherein I can reveal myself as Regis Nex, King of all Chaos. I was only disguised as Mikhail. As much as the Mod would love to change my avatar, There is no reason for me to ever proclaim, because I become a treestump, unable to revive or vote, but also untargettable by votes and abilities.
At the moment I recieved a message saying I can no longer revive anyone except One.
So yeah, I can revive One anytime during today.
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Popping in to say Mikhail is confirmed town as per my role.
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Also I think this is where Miya claims her result from last night.
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I would have thought that was obvious at this point considering I revived twice to help kill scum... (though Yuan got modkilled I'm sure town would have lynched her anyway)
How does your role function in that regard?
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Everyone will now state who they targeted last night. Go.
Then Miya does that thing you said.
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O wait, I think I get it... Derp... me, silly Bard, indirectly trolling me.
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Hasn't everyone claimed night actions already?
How does your role function in that regard?
I have an Informed Townie role. I can explain further if you want, but I know that a treestump exists.
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No. Living - Target Night 3
03. Caladbolg - No one
04. Mikhail - No one
05. Moonin - One
07. Depore - No one
10. Princess Miya - ???
i believe everyone has stated their targets already.
Pre-edit: heh, that list looks silly.
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Or I could wait on the nonexistent extra person :V
Depore is clear. She did not visit anyone last night or do anything.
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Oh.. Why did you think it was me Day 3?
Also that means that message from the mod wasn't sent by you. Bastard Mod shenanigans perhaps. If I were to revive One, it's possible (but unlikely) he targetted the scum and the scum killed him. E.G it's still possible his target is scum.
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Alright...
So.
Is there any reason not to chop off Moonin's telepathic head?
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Zzz.
I want to actually reread him first. And cry because my scum reads were way off this game.
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Bard, you bastard mod, you gave me the wrong PM. I've been trying to help town all along because of this mess-up.
@Miya: Why did you want everyone to claim who they targeted before you?
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Moonin, are you claiming scum?
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Actually, I can't believe I'm asking this question.
##Vote:Moonin
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No. If you read carefully, I claimed that Bard gave me a town role.
There's very obviously scum shenanigans going on here. Mikhail and Depore are confirmed, I don't think the last scum is Caladbolg, which leaves either me, the most likely option, or Miya, who started the whole thing on Iffritas. This would mean that scum planned on hard bussing during day two to give Miya infinite town cred, and Yuan some cred. This would have also meant that Caladbolg couldn't have shot wrong. It's possible scum!Caladbolg shot Iffritas after seeing how badly she handled the claim, but the way Caladbolg handled the way today has progressed, with the clearing of Mikhail makes him seem very town sourced.
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##Unvote
Oh fine let me actually read the game.
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You realize Miya just completely cleared Depore?
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Yes, I do, which means Depore isn't the last scum, since if Miya is town, she'd be telling the truth, and if Miya is scum, then that doesn't leave any slots left for Depore.
you're going to be just as confused as I am tomorrow.
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Mikhail and Depore are confirmed,
I understand your Depore point but why is Mikhail confirmed again?
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Mikhail is confirmed through my role. I'll explain in a few hours once HAHA STOP IT DAMMIT ON IRC.
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Votecount of #irseamafia Is Way Fun! (gj Bard!)
Moonin (0): Caladbolg
Not Voting: Caladbolg, Mikhail, Moonin, Depore, Miya
With 5 alive, you require 3 to lynch!
Day 4 ends in about 66 hours.
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Ugh, Mafia is bad for my sleep schedual, I just normalized YESTERDAY, please don't ask me to stay up until 3 in the morning making cases on people, why am I doing this, I'm going to be lynched before my case is taken seriously anyway.
Miya lazily hops off One and onto Just (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg676881.html#msg676881) This doesn't mean as much, since One wasn't scum, but it did solidify a town lynch (give or take a third party). It also let Miya tuck away the One suspicion until a later date when it could be worked on or dropped if One started doing well.
The initial suspicion against Iffritas (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg677834.html#msg677834) but the fact the vote took so long, and the case was copy and paste from everyone else who did the work for her. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678139.html#msg678139) This still feels like lazyscum waiting for the case to be made. Scum, if hardbussing, would want to have a large hand in catching the scum they are bussing. I notice Miya gives shoutouts to Mala, and Yuan, giving both of them a share of the town credit.
Opinions: One is Scum, Xix is not town, Yuan is town, Orwen is likely scum. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679386.html#msg679386) Later votes Orwen due to having the largest bandwagon (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679572.html#msg679572)
Votes Yuan after the jailer claim from Mala. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg680961.html#msg680961) Interesting thing to note that she jumped right on Yuan without even asking any questions, and tries to get in a half-hearted implication against Yuan.
Post justifying Xix's lynch. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg681622.html#msg681622)
everything outside of the case against Iffritas is barebones. All of her cases outside of Iffritas so far have been town, and she tries to give Yuan a large town clear for helping bag Iffritas. basically, scum play for day two was to give some role-source heavy bussing against Iffritas, which would then give Yuan and Miya enough of a town clear to ride out the rest of the game. Yuan turned sour when Mikhail popped up and revived the actual jailkeeper, but Miya's been able to just lay low.
Whoever is left alive in the threeway, please keep an eye on her.
That's all I have for now. I need to go to sleep.
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Caladbolg,
you are an informed townie dayvig death miller. How long have you known that there was a treestump in this game? Also what did the information tell more precisely besides "treestump."
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Ok you know why my vote that didn't happen immediatly was NOT bad like everyone and their dog is saying?
Because it let me gage how Iffrita would react without pressure.
And she folded like a house of cards with an immediate claim. HMMM
I hate how everyone is just boiling my case on Iffrita down to stealing everyone else's ideas but what are you gonna do?
Next is last will comments which is what, exactly? What are you trying to say by linking them?
Orwin: That close to deadline and I was picking up strange vibes from him. Yeah I would much rather have a lynch than a no lynch and risk us not having the manpower at deadline to get one.
Jailor who was proven town comes back and cc's someone. Role heave shenanigans but I thought it was valid non the less.
And what about my explaination for a Xix lynch? I consolidated my thoughts on why I was going to vote him since quick reread was just comments from the post above and Fos'ed him. That all made sense to me and came out so you could see my opinions on why I why thinking Xix scum.
I'm going to need some links and citation to where "I tried to give Yuan a large town clear."
The lack of a vote for you, which can be a legitamite point this time seeing as how you don't have a report to clear with, only solidifies my opinion that you spent that post BSing a case on me and then chose not to vote me for it because it's so bad.
Do you really think I'm scum and that I just won't go through? If so and you are town, which means Book scum, then why not vote and solidify opinions instead of whoo hoo and not even try to prevent your lynch and get someone who could be scum?
##Vote: Moonin
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Moonin I understand your arguement, but could the bussing argument apply to then Book as well? If I remember correctly, Book wanted to shoot Miya, but then shot Iffrita. Both claimed roles that helped kill scum.
It's true of course that Book was more active, but Book's reads where just as wrong (as were mine).
Miya never had to claim Tracker/Watcher to SUPERBUS Iffrita. But the dayvig ability was something of an obvious must use, or risk being rolecopped and denouced.
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I'll check the thread tomorrow morningYAWN....
Remember I can always revive One to confirm his target
Also I don't see why Scum couldn't have double action, as Yuan tried to deny this idea. It's WIFOM, I know, but why bother trying to post it if she wasn't trying to mislead town?
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Right, so in addition to my bastard vig I am an Informed Townie in that I have several "Orbs" I can open at night to reveal information about players in the game. I can open one Orb per night, and I am told each of these Orbs are connected to specific players. There were 4 Orbs to begin with. Orbs break by themselves when their corresponding players die, and in that case I do not receive any information.
N1 I was told there was a tracker role in the game.
N2 I was told there was a treestump or equivalent in the game who could be trusted to be working for Chaos. I was debating claiming this on D3 but Xix had to self-hammer like an idiot before I could decide.
N3 I was told there was a neighboriser in the game.
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Moonin I understand your arguement, but could the bussing argument apply to then Book as well? If I remember correctly, Book wanted to shoot Miya, but then shot Iffrita. Both claimed roles that helped kill scum.
Could you explain the latter part of this paragraph?
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Oh, and my last orb broke when Yuan died.
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Oh, and yeah, I'd appreciate it if people didn't hammer Moonin before I finish my rereads.
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Ah ok. That explains that.
At one point I thought that the 3rd scum was a rolecop because of the coincidence of the cc from Mala. Also a scum dayvig would have good reason to claim and shoot when the town is divided between two people. Of course it would be optimal to shoot town, which is what you just may have done if UK wasn't so adamant about shooting Iffrita. But in the case a scum dayvig shoots scum, their town cred is substantial anyway.
Also the clears given are different in Value. Depore looked 2nd scummiest apart from Moonin. I was looking a lot more town.
Certainly Moonin should be the lynch for today, but I will have to compare you and Miya... tomorrow. Again... YAWN.
(I just hope Bard doesn't troll me by Modkill if I revive one) :ohdear:
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I'd like to point out that I was on track to shoot Miya for much of D2, and I honestly don't think people would have blamed me if I did. Also, I think that if I were scum, getting rid of the tracker/watcher would be worth more than the mini boost in townie cred I would get from shooting a person who the majority of town wanted to lynch, but that's WIFOM.
But if Miya is scum, I don't see the value in her clearing Depore, when her vs Depore is a much easier match than her vs me. >_>
A One revive might be worth it near the end of the day to get any information that he might have.
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Then why say the first paragraph?
"I'd like to say... BUT... It's bad"
Yeah...
Scum me doesn't make sense. You heard it here if Moonin flips town. (Which, really?)
One revive may be worth it but I doubt he'll know who killed him even if he says his protect was on me, it can still be debunked and won't hold all that well.
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Then why say the first paragraph?
Gut. :V
Also, if it weren't for role shenanigans and flips, I would have a scum read on you and a town read on Moonin. It's okay, we have all day to read. Miya, I'd also like for you to read and post what you think about a "case" on me today.
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One revive may be worth it but I doubt he'll know who killed him even if he says his protect was on me, it can still be debunked and won't hold all that well.
Yeah. I just want to see if he protected someone other than you. Unlikely, but you never know.
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Today?!?!
:V
Oh God the :effort: :comedycentral:
(I'll get right on that tomorrow)
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Yeah, I meant game day, not real-time day. :V
I'm sure as hell not going to finish this tonight.
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Yeah. I just want to see if he protected someone other than you. Unlikely, but you never know.
And I realize this doesn't matter at all due to reasoning Mikhail already gave earlier.
Shows me right for posting late at night.
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Regardless, I think the likelihood of a Xix; Yuan partnership has greatly increased with Mala's revival. This pairing easily gets around the Scum action limit (if there is one) By Yuan's target simply being a lie.
##Vote: Xix
Yuan is scum per Mala. Vote: Xix. ???
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I'm leaving soon for camp, but shouldn't Depore claim. I mean there could be a gimmick in her role since (I thought anyway) that she was the obvious one that Miya would track.
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Votecount of Still Sky Blue Standard
Moonin (1): Caladbolg, Miya
Not Voting: Caladbolg, Mikhail, Moonin, Depore
With 5 alive, you require 3 to lynch!
Day 4 ends in about 49 43 hours and 40 minutes.
6 hour deadline cut.
Bard Edit: Let's make that six hours instead bro. :D
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I dislike diminishing deadlines based on less-than-24-hours lacking activity because some of us are working overtime during the day and have various other commitments. >_>
Anyway, I sadly have nothing new to bring to the table. I am (well, was) a 1-shot Commuter, and I used it on N2 after my ego got the better of me - figured a combination of my activity surrounding the Iffrita kill and my not trying to hide my identity would net me some negative attention. (At least Oldepore getting RBed N1 saved it for me.)
I'm not sure where I sit on Moonin at this point, largely because I still don't really want to give up the double-night-action thing, but I don't know why he would have thought Miya the most likely to die when One had just claimed bodyguard who had targeted Miya N2 since it seems logical that he probably did it N3 as well. (Though why no one else pointed this out in the meantime is unknown to me.)
Mikhail's out, so my other options are Miya and Caladbook, where Miya wins the role shenanigans battle but Caladbook wins the looking townie battle. I'll want to go over both of them when I next have the free time, but that isn't looking likely for the next couple of hours, because it's bloody hot up here and air-conditioned dinner is basically a must tonight.
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No blame for misreading, but I thought Miya was going to die on night 2, before One claimed what his role was.
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As did I. But keep in mind Yuan showed surprise near the start of the day when I revealed I was a watcher combo.
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I'm not sure I'm parsing that sentence correctly Okay I've figured out where the confusion came from. You initially mentioned thinking Miya would die on Night 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg682319.html#msg682319). What I asked about is why you targeted the bodyguard, the person statistically most likely to die because they can redirect NKs to themselves if they guard correctly, on Night 3, like you seemed to be claiming here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg682305.html#msg682305) when you talk about "last night" on Day 4. Day 4's "last night" would be Night 3 and not Night 2.
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This almost feels like the aBGM Day 5 situation. I have to agree that role shenanigens make Miya the greater of two goods if compared to Book, and that is more important imo.
So I really don't have much to add at the moment. I will get some paper and a pen and write down actions through the game to see if I'm missing anything.
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Damn, Depore's role was quite useless. Question for Miya, pretending scum has double-actions (as I suspect), do you think your track result may have been skewed if Depore were to NK and commute the same night? Or would your action fail?
Anyway, activity is stalling regardless of outside commitments, (I for one am getting a little apathetic), so instead of Bard toying around with a bardiche slashing hours off deadline, I'm going speed things up a bit and revive one.
What's your favorite dessert One? Mine is good old fashioned chocolate cake.
Bard please don't kill me for this!
##Evocate One
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Desert? Should I ask the Mod for that? Because flavor wise, I believe my Wish should have been to have Depore Love me instead!
Btw...why Pie?
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You know the drill by now.
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One has returned to the game.
Votecount of ARGH YOU IMPULSIVE PLAYERS!!!
Moonin (1): Caladbolg, Miya
Not Voting: Caladbolg, One, Moonin, Depore
With 5 alive, you require 3 to lynch!
Day 4 ends in about 38 hours and 20 minutes.
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Though even then, that depends on the fact of flavour meaning something.
@Mod: Does Flavouring Mean anything?
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Ze flavour, it means nothing.
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Yay, I'm finished with [REDACTED] and now I have time to read this.
So these are the claimed roles then?
03. Caladbolg - Death Miller One-Shot Vig Informed Townie
04. Mikhail - Reviver Treestump
05. Moonin - Weird Neighborizer
07. Depore - One-Shot Commuter
10. Princess Miya - Tracker/Watcher
01. Just - Vote Manipulate + Track all players in game every night
09. Demon Navarus - Weak tracker + Corpse rolecop
02. Empress Iffrita - ?
12. Sage Orwen - Roleblocking nighttalker
08. Prophet Mala - Jailer
06. Xix - Unsealed Evil - Reflexive roleblocker + ?
11. One - Mercenary - Bodyguard
13. Yuan - A roleblocking ability + ?
Depore, your role seems a bit out of place. :derp:
Question for Miya, pretending scum has double-actions (as I suspect), do you think your track result may have been skewed if Depore were to NK and commute the same night?
Don't trackers usually follow their targets to all their targets?
One, claim all information you have.
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EBWOP: @Mikhail, this (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Ninja)is a much simpler answer to your query, but it makes about as much sense in this setup as the one-shot commuter.
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Sure~ Apparently if I say what I know, its pretty much confirmed Town Victory.
I did not mention this, but I will now
For my Role Ability,
Defending someone Twice in a row,
Shall show the Alignment of the Target.
In Which I have used,
To Determine the Align, of a Certain Princess,
In Which she is Now,
A Confirmed Townie~
Yay~
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Well then. Screw you Moonin. :V
Should we just end the day then?
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Actually, Moonin, do you have anything to say?
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Well then. Screw you Moonin. :V
Should we just end the day then?
You certain you want to hammer at this moment?
I kinda like being alive.
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I'm not actually going to hammer yet. I want to get my rereads done.
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EBWOP: Because in the case that Depore is ninja scum, I don't trust you people not to lynch me in LYLO. :V
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Ah. Read the whole ending of day 2. Pay attention to it. Look.
Do you still hold to this idea (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678867.html#msg678867) that Iffrita/Miya family feud was town vs. scum or are you going to push that entire day and the like as an EXTREMELY stupid scum gambit that deliberately drew attention to someone who was being read high town by most?
Starts with teetering to want to shoot me (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678878.html#msg678878) and Demon constantly has to push (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679306.html#msg679306) for Iffrita's shot all day because that is the only reason she did not shoot me over Iffrita. Yeah, taking out tracker and then having to lynch scum would have been more optimal but I think scum were fearing the amount of shit Navarus would give Book if they did not go with what she was ranting and raving about. She kept trying to do me in up to the point where it got really ridiculous (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679398.html#msg679398) with Nav.
Then my 666 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679401.html#msg679401) held a legitamite concern about UK protection not going to Book if she shot me, a townie and her miller ordeal and all she had to answer to that was:
... No, fuck you. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679405.html#msg679405)
...But this is all if MOONIN is flipping town (which, really? Seriously?! :colonveeplusalpha: )
So I would love you all to jump on his case and kill him when you're ready~
Thank you ONE~ :* Take that hat off so I can kiss you on ze cheek :V
And Mikhail, Depore did not leave to do anything last night or visit anyone so no, I do not think duo actions would have skewed it.
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Depore
Didn't you read my thing on Depore?
Both role and play shenanigans say she's town. >.>
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Do you still hold to this idea (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678867.html#msg678867) that Iffrita/Miya family feud was town vs. scum or are you going to push that entire day and the like as an EXTREMELY stupid scum gambit that deliberately drew attention to someone who was being read high town by most?
Eh, what?
Starts with teetering to want to shoot me (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678878.html#msg678878) and Demon constantly has to push (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679306.html#msg679306) for Iffrita's shot all day because that is the only reason she did not shoot me over Iffrita. Yeah, taking out tracker and then having to lynch scum would have been more optimal but I think scum were fearing the amount of shit Navarus would give Book if they did not go with what she was ranting and raving about. She kept trying to do me in up to the point where it got really ridiculous (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679398.html#msg679398) with Nav.
Miya, go read that part of D2 again, and look at yourself. You looked horrible.
Then my 666 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679401.html#msg679401) held a legitamite concern about UK protection not going to Book if she shot me, a townie and her miller ordeal and all she had to answer to that was:
... No, fuck you. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg679405.html#msg679405)
I still hold by that sentiment if you think I would go to the lengths to claim death miller vig and draw everyone's attention on to myself when I could just claim vig and be done with it.
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Didn't you read my thing on Depore?
Both role and play shenanigans say she's town. >.>
I read it and responded to it way back when, remember?
The reason why I'm holding off on hammering Moonin is that if for some godforsaken reason he flips town, you'll all going to quicklynch me and lose the game tomorrow. So I want to reread him at least one more time and compare him with the only other possibility.
Also it would be great if Moonin would post.
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EBWOP: The reread shouldn't take too long anyway. I'll be done with it a few hours.
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Alright, before we get all antsy and at each others throats before we have to, I want Moonin to flip Fuxdammit.
But why not claim miller if you're flipping scum? It causes a lot of parinoia and could demoralize if town had to second guess at your interactions with everyone be they town or scum instead of having a confirmed scum flip to work with.
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Oh, I know some scum like to gambit and claim miller or whatnot (death miller is something else entirely but I've personally never seen one in play).
You'll just have to take my word that I'm not one of them. If you know who I am you know what my scum playstyle is like. :V
Anyway, reread, etc.
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I just looked over Depore, Moonin, Iffrita, and Yuan, and here's what I concluded in my half-conscious state.
Depore interactions with scum were minimal, but Moonin's actions were even more minimal. If Depore was scum, she was being hard bussed, while if Moonin was scum, his scum buddies only lightly prodded and poked at him from time to time, even defending him against others.
Moonin has just not been here most of the time. OldDepore was newbscummy, while NeoDepore is mostly logical and reasonable.
Moonin claimed visiting the nightkill N3 with an ability he hadn't claimed before (correct me if I'm wrong on this point). Moonin scum would imply double action scum because of N2, when Yuan was confirmed to have targeted Xix and Moonin was confirmed to have targeted me.
Depore claimed a One-Shot Commuter Role (a claim which I do not like, because I don't think it fits in with the rest of the claims). Meanwhile, Miya tracking Depore and finding nothing means that if Depore is scum, she is at least partially immune to trackers.
I think in all of the above Moonin scum makes more sense than Depore scum. So I expect I will be voting Moonin. I want to hear from both Moonin and Depore following latest developments.
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Bwa ha ha
So One claims that Miya is confirmed town, and suddenly Caladbolg starts trying to set up for a Depore mislynch for tomorrow.
Thank you One, this pie certainly is delicious.
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My thoughts on the latest developments are that you are oddly concerned about my role.
Also, I'm curious - do you think Miya could possibly be scum after One's claim? If so, why leave her out to compare Moonin and myself? If not, why are you taking One's claim about Miya at face value and not Miya's claim about me?
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Votecount of It's A Beautiful Morning! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrwhfhncPfM)
Moonin (1): Caladbolg, Miya
Not Voting: Caladbolg, One, Moonin, Depore
With 5 alive, you require 3 to lynch!
Day 4 ends in about 24 hours.
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Mikhail and I've agreed that.
Moonin Shall be the 1st Sacrifice.
##Vote Moonin.
This game is getting so lackluster for me that Ending it faster is better.
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##Vote Moonin
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If One's okay with it, I guess I am, too.
I don't think I'm going to manage enough effort to make a case on Caladbolg today anyway. Not that there's be much point since we have more clears than suspects left.
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Mikhail: Depore do you have anything left to claim, because nows the time to do it.
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Depore, I don't believe your claim. I just realized that a mafia ninja would be a great role to have in a game where a third party can track all players at once.
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Bwa ha ha
So One claims that Miya is confirmed town, and suddenly Caladbolg starts trying to set up for a Depore mislynch for tomorrow.
Thank you One, this pie certainly is delicious.
If you're town, I'm going to rage at you in the postgame for this.
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Also, I'm curious - do you think Miya could possibly be scum after One's claim? If so, why leave her out to compare Moonin and myself? If not, why are you taking One's claim about Miya at face value and not Miya's claim about me?
I don't know the nature of One's clear on Miya, but it sounds like a pseudo-investigative role. Miya scum would imply Miya is a Godfather and has likely been making up his results. Unless you think he's a Godfather Tracker/Watcher.
I've explained why I don't like your claim. I also think you're more likely to be scum than Miya.
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Not that there's be much point since we have more clears than suspects left.
If you want to let arrogance be your downfall, so be it. I can't help you if you don't want to play the game.
In other words, no. Get the hell in here and make a case on me if you think I'm scum.
One, unvote Moonin for now.
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So Moonin, about this "third ability," why didn't you claim it earlier?
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Also, I'm curious - do you think Miya could possibly be scum after One's claim?
Possible, but unlikely enough that I don't think she's scum. Do you think she's scum? What about Moonin? What about me?
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If you want to let arrogance be your downfall, so be it. I can't help you if you don't want to play the game.
In other words, no. Get the hell in here and make a case on me if you think I'm scum.
One, unvote Moonin for now.
##Unvote Moonin
>.>
Damn your Pride Caladbolg!
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You don't like my claim because it "doesn't fit in with the rest of the roles", which is nothing but gaming the setup. And wrong to boot, since I was not talking about this earlier when I looked like a reasonable NK choice, but if you're scum trying to set me up as a mislynch then you're not going to kill me anyway. Using that Commuter shot turned me Bulletproof.
Also, if you're going to try to press the ninja point, why did Iffrita target Navarus on Night 1? Seems like scum would stay the hell away from their NK targets if they had a ninja available for their kills just to be sure they could avoid the kind of implication Day 2 brought.
Cut: I do not think Maya is scum. I would only ever consider voting her if you and Moonin were the next two deaths and the game kept going. I'm actually starting to think you're scum ahead of Moonin, what with the above two things as well as your paranoia about being quicklynched on Day 5. Do you really not think whoever is alive that day won't want to think things through carefully?
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Also Maya is meant to be Miya. Damned autocorrect.
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Ponder this.
Why did I catch Iffrita if scum had a ninja to hide their targeting?
I'll wait.
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Or I get cut to making that point. :V
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I don't know the nature of One's clear on Miya, but it sounds like a pseudo-investigative role. Miya scum would imply Miya is a Godfather and has likely been making up his results. Unless you think he's a Godfather Tracker/Watcher.
I've explained why I don't like your claim. I also think you're more likely to be scum than Miya.
You confirmed with your own role (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg682412.html#msg682412) that there was a Tracker in this game, and if it's anyone, it's Princess Miya. the only option for Miyascum would have to be tracker/watcher switch combo with godfather added. Which, seems like a weird and unlikely combo to me. The only other possibility would be that One is insane, but I don't think that's likely either because One was only likely to get one alignment all game before he died (What with having twice the chance of dying each night than a normal townie to begin with). I think it's safe to take One's claim at face value.
Also, Depore and Miya's point holds true above, so that's still puts us in a 3-2 clear suspect ratio, in favor of town.
I already said, the reason I didn't claim it was because it sounded like a silly, for fun thing. I'm still not certain if the results I get mean anything.
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Do you really not think whoever is alive that day won't want to think things through carefully?
Yes. Look through the archives on this board.
Cut by a whole bunch of people with points that all make sense. Okay, so I should have thought that out more clearly then.
Also, Depore and Miya's point holds true above, so that's still puts us in a 3-2 clear suspect ratio, in favor of town.
You're claiming to be town. I know I'm town. If you flip town, and people decide to lynch me because "hey he's the only suspect left" I'm going to be pissed.
I don't care at this point anymore. Either Moonin is scum and is trying to WIFOM me out the ass, or I'm cooked tomorrow, in which case I give up. Also I'm sure the entire graveyard +mod QT is laughing at me right now.
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##Vote:Moonin
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Votecount of 20/20 Vision
Moonin (2): Caladbolg, Miya, One, Caladbolg
Not Voting: One, Moonin, Depore
With 5 alive, you require 3 to lynch!
Day 4 ends in about 20 hours and 20 minutes.
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##Vote Moonin
Its Hammer Time!
I Liked Living.
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HAMMER SHUT UP!
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Moonin, Oski's Servant was lynched.
You have 24 hours to send in your actions.
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Results are in!
Princess Miya was killed overnight!
It is now LYLO and the final game day.
You have 72 hours to finish the game up.
3 alive means 2 to lynch.
Godspeed.
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So just to be sure, Caladbook, that orb really told you the treestump role "could be trusted to work for Chaos"? In no uncertain terms?
This seems fairly cut-and-dry if so.
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My profirm command does confirm me as absolutely innocent
So from my standpoint, that flavor makes sense
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Might as well try this.
##Evocate Princess Miya
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Votecount of fo tnuocetoV
Not Voting: Caladbolg, Mikhail, Depore
With 3 alive, you require 2 to lynch!
Day 5 ends in about 70 hours and 30 minutes.
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That sucks. I got a message that I couldn't revive anybody today in Lylo... I gotta go. I'll sleep on it.
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So just to be sure, Caladbook, that orb really told you the treestump role "could be trusted to work for Chaos"? In no uncertain terms?
I know that there is a role that can prove its innocence beyond a doubt, and can be trusted to be acting for Chaos. Mikhail claimed that role, and I trust that Bard wouldn't give such a role to scum.
This seems fairly cut-and-dry if so.
Yep! You're scum. Allow me to write up a case~
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Let's start with the horrible horrible One-Shot Commuter turned One-Shot Bulletproof-Making Commuter fakeclaim.
Ugh.
I really didn't want to do this because I didn't think scum needed to know, and especially after talking about not "gaming things", but part of the reason I think Iffrita is lying is because I think Moonin's neighborization failure was due to being roleblocked rather than because UK died. I say this because Oldepore tried to take an action last night on someone that didn't die and was blocked, and the block message was flavorless, like Moonin's.
Again, hate gaming things, but I've had a hard time ignoring this.
I say this because Oldepore tried to take an action last night on someone that didn't die and was blocked, and the block message was flavorless, like Moonin's.
I say this because Oldepore tried to take an action last night on someone that didn't die and was blocked
Oldepore tried to take an action last night on someone
Because Commuter is totally a targetted action on someone, right? ::)
I have so much more to say, but this was so bad I had to point it out.
As for why I immediately thought "Ninja!" when he claimed commuter, well, it's not like it hasn't been done before (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3006206#p3006206). I still have to mull over what exactly happened N1 though. It's clear that Iffrita performed the NK N1. So I think the "untrackable" part of his role must be limited somehow.
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Oh, shoot, I had forgotten I had said that, back when I was setting up the cop fakeclaim.
##Vote: Depore
This setup doesn't deserve a proper ending. Let's just finish the game up and move on to the next one.
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##Vote:Depore
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TOWN WINS
I LOVE YOU ALL
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I will at least take pride in getting this far in what was an unbelievably god-awful situation.
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You did incredibly well. :3
I learned a lot from this game.
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I did too.
Though mostly that I'm not ever going to participate in any role madness game again where any of these three mods have had any sort of hand in the setup. >_>
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Depore the Legendary Weapon was lynched.
Town wins.
I know some players may have issues with the setup. Let's keep postgame discussion civil. I will get the setup details posted after a little bit.
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Oh yeah.
I'm sorry, Shadoweh. I wanted to win this game for you and your terrible D1 wagon. Alas. ;_;
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Good game.
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:toot:
My arms are completely numb from the exhilaration.
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IT'S OKAY KILGA YOU ARE STILL THE WINNER OF MY HEART ;-;
I mean who is this Just guy, I have never met them before!
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Wow I thought Depore was Serela the whole time, and huh what just solidified my opinions here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10183.msg678962.html#msg678962) ;_;
Kind of :| at the role shenanigans but I guess it was interesting regardless.
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Don't quit, Conqy! You were my favorite town player this game!
Also complaints about scum's loss to role shenanigans etc. To be fair, though, I think all four of us played pretty well despite the loss~ J.O.B. did fairly well for somebody who rolled scum on his first game, notably. Or at least that's what I thought.
I'll start signups for my game in a bit! :> Currently busy TF2ing, though. I need the anon passwords, btw.
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You know, I JUST have this feeling that Shadoweh is taking her loss JUST a bit harder than she should.
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Well, on the one hand, this was my BEST GAME EVER.
I had 2/3 scum AND the third party. I regret dropping Yuan D2, but I picked her back up immediately D3. TOO BAD I WAS DEAD!
Here's my thoughts QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/XftfhtjcZfD
On the other the set up was so town sided it hurt D:.
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http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/J5U658stSEKFL
Enjoy Dormio rambling for ~170 posts.
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Good game everyone.
Boy was that hard. It's hard to play like a town if you haven't even been one before.
I had to stop because I was losing so much sleep.
It's really hard for me to give reasons, since I can't even give good reasons IRL.
Also Dormio, I was so tempted to say "I'm a potato" just to mess wih you guys.
And thanks Kilga for mentoring me and replacing me.
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Don't worry, you played fine for your first game. :)
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Yay!
Shall I post the Scum QT? I still have the link.
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WHY DID YOU ALL LYNCH ME OVER DORMIO?! DON'T YOU KNOW HE IS THE SCUM? ;-;
This game was very anti-me. After finding out how I was suposed to win, I was disheartened that I had no actual control over my true win condition. (Spoiler: I was suposed to be alive on Day 7) I have also learned that I don't have a tone down switch and if I'm not bulletproof third party I should just kill myself. ;_;
Just's Huggyland! (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/iJcQcNXMcpAY) IGNORE THE RANTING ABOUT THE HAMMERER. HATE
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Yeah, I'd like the scum and graveyard QTs. :V
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K!
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/Dt6ZTQiRdi5Rr
Enjoy me being an idiot and being bored.
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http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/Dt6ZTQiRdi5Rr
"I know Iffrita and Miya have both read the thread since I last posted (I'M USING LAST ACTIVE TIMES OH NOES) so I know you're both ignoring me. Please talk about which other suspects you would have lynched apart from each other."
Is it possible to stop the last active times of anon accounts from being read to prevent these things from happening? <_<
Sadly, no. That would have to be disabled forum-wide, and we're not going to do that just for Mafia.
I'll have a word about it in postgame, since it seems to be a growing trend.
[01:19:02] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Ooh, other annoying thing this game.
[01:19:10] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> People using online times against each other.
[01:19:58] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Last Active times are super lame reasons to suspect people. There are way too many potential extenuating circumstances.
If I see this in the future I will start rolling up newspapers and smacking heads. Stop it. >:|
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http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/6M2eWC4hpMRi
Graveyard for the people that are feeling fantastic and still alive.
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I find it funny that Mala was town and that I actually did roleblock scum night 1, in spite of my logic being absolutely horrendous (as pointed out multiple times before my lynch).
I claim Orwen, by the way.
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Role Setup (abridged form because the role PMs are not entirely evident as to what the full roles are)
Town
- Book of the Past/Caladbolg (Conquerer): 1-shot Dayvig. Pierces all protections (One) and not roleblockable. Would change to Caladbolg and become Death Miller. At night, he can pick between certain orbs to find out that certain roles exist in the game.
- Mikhail/Regis Nex (ActionDan): Multi-shot reviver during the Day. Disabled during LYLO. Also a self-proclaim ability that turns him into Regis Nex and a Treestump. If Evocate is used during the Day cycle and he or his revived target is killed in that cycle, he will not Treestump. Will Treestump otherwise.
- Moonin (Zakeri): Modified Neighborizer
- Xix (PX): When targetted with a Night Action, he counter roleblocks the person. This makes him unkillable by Depore and Iffrita. Only Yuan, Caladbolg's vig, and lynching can kill Xix. The heart thing was a red herring.
- Prophet Mala (Dormio): Town Commuter (protects, roleblocks and makes action immune). This also differs from a traditional Jailer in that if she uses it on herself, 50/50 chance she succeeds or loses her power permenantly with a new power being able to post a 100 word anonymous announcement every Day/Night cycle.
- Demon Navarus (UncertainKitten): Can send a message at Night to a player which also serves as tracking that player. Can rolecop dead players.
- Princess Miya (Schezo with K4U mentor hydra): Alternating Tracker/Watcher
- One (Hero999): Bodyguard. If he protects someone two nights in a row, he gets a Sane Cop result. He would have found Book of the Past as green, Caladbolg as red. Also can bodyguard during the Day instead, but would have been effectively useless since Caladbolg's vig had priority.
- Sage Orwen (capt.h): Roleblocker and/or able to talk in the thread at Night. If he reveals his powers during Night Talk, he will receive one anonymous vote every Day for the rest of the game.
Scum
- Empress Iffrita (huh what): When going on the NK, she is kill-immune. Otherwise, flavor cop. Also, has 1 Self-Governor shot. Mod will reveal she self-governed if it occurred. Does not work in LYLO.
- Depore (J.O.B with Kilga mentor hydra/Kilgamayan): When going on the NK, she is untrackable (a ninja). Otherwise, can shadow a player and make that person immune to investigative roles.
- Yuan (Lady Lambdadelta with Dorian G. as observer hydra): When going on the NK, immune to investigations. Otherwise, is a Jailer. Has the highest roleblock priority in the game. She is also roleblock immune which allows her to NK Xix.
ITP
- Just (Shadoweh): Third Party Survivor, Omni-Tracker (tracks everyone at Night, roleblock immune), Can move a vote at Day Start. Auto Day 7 win-con (Just wins, everyone else loses) Just is also hated (lynched at L-1).
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I got 7/9. Thought Hero was Helepolis and thought Xix was Hourai (for some reason).
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and thought Xix was Hourai (for some reason).
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3388/thunamused.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/thunamused.png/)
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(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3388/thunamused.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/thunamused.png/)
Don't mind me, I was just being a major derp. <_< I kind of assumed that PX wasn't playing.
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Oh yeah.
I told you all Moonin was town.
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I wrote an ENTIRE WALL telling everybody why One was the derp newbtown and why Depore was the overly opportunistic newbscum.
And nobody listened.
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: P
Also you guys bussing me was annoying.
Although it did help in late game.
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Thanks for setting up my mislynch guys.
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I wouldn't have set up your mislynch if I had seen your new avatar. That's right up there with K4U on the "too cute to kill" list.
This post will probaby look hilarious when you change it in a month or so.
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Town
- Book of the Past/Caladbolg (Conquerer): 1-shot Dayvig. Would change to Caladbolg and become Death Miller. At night, he can pick between certain orbs to find out that certain roles exist in the game.
6) If a mod says it is true, it is true. If we deem you are violating a rule, written or not, you are violating a rule and we will act accordingly.
???
Death millers are contraversal because for a death miller to be a role, should the death miller be killed at some point in the game a mod would be forced to lie to the players about the alignment of the death miller.
I actually like the idea of a death miller, but it contradicts rule 6.
EDIT: Even with that, this was probably my favorite setup yet.
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Actually I was thinking about changing my avatar today. But I decided to wait a bit longer.
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Night Actions (which Shadoweh would have seen most of, but she JUST couldn't handle it)
Night 1:
- Iffrita submits Night Kill on Navarus (success)
- Depore submits Cop Immunity on Iffrita (fails)
- Yuan submits Jailkeep on Mala (success)
- Miya submits Track on Iffrita (success)
- Orwen submits Roleblock on Depore (success)
- Book of the Past breaks red Orb (learns there is a Tracker)
- Mala submits Commute on Iffrita (fails due to Yuan)
- Navarus submits CorpseHunt on Just (success)
- One submits Bodyguard on Book of the Past (success)
- Moonin submits Psycholink (Night Neighborize) on Navarus (fails to establish due to NK)
EDIT: Roleblock priority puts Yuan highest, so no block on Iffri-chan~
Night 2:
- Depore submits Night Kill on Mala (success)
- Yuan submits Jailkeep on Xix (success)
- Xix is notified he tried to roleblock someone and was roleblocked.
- Caladbolg breaks green Orb (learns there is a Town-aligned Treestump)
- Mala submits Commute on Mikhail (success)
- One submits Bodyguard on Miya (success)
- Miya submits Watch on herself (sees One)
- Moonin submits Psycholink (Night Neighborize) on Caladbolg (success)
Night 3:
- Depore submits Night Kill on One (success)
- Moonin submits DreamEat on One (success, gets non-sensical reply from Bard)
- Miya submits Track on Depore (does not see Depore due to ninja)
- Caladbolg breaks yellow orb (learns there is a Neighborizer)
- One submits Bodyguard on Miya (success and gets Town result on Miya)
Night 4:
- Depore submits Night Kill on Miya (success)
capt.h: It was a Day Vig, so it's up to the Day Vig to tell everyone he was a Death Miller. We did not think there would be any complaints about that.
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This set up was really, really town sided. I'm kind of impressed we got to 3 person lylo.
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Alright, the basics are all there. I will let Bard provide his comments about the setup and game first.
Do note, if people yell at Bard only, I will be extremely pissed. The co-mods rightfully deserve blame as well.
UK: I will withhold commenting on that until Bard states his thoughts first.
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I looked upon the setup and thought 'DotS balance' :V
Yes it was town favoured, but seeing as you got to such an endgame because of tripping over the roles, it sorta worked out as intended.
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This set up was really, really town sided. I'm kind of impressed we got to 3 person lylo.
I don't think it was too town sided myself.
While there were a lot of powerful town roles, there was only one even-day cop (while the other roles were useful they didn't exactly confirm scum by themselves), and on the Wiki Xix's role is considered a liability for town. Scum also had a lot of immunities on their side, should they choose to use it, and their roleblock was the highest priotiy in the game.
Mind you, I'm thinking of the typical 1 goon, 1 scum roleblocker, 1 doc, and 1 cop as the ideal level of balance for mafia.
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I have no real intention of yelling at anybody. :shrug: I didn't like the set-up's balance, but I thought it was interesting and I wouldn't actually consider raging at the actual mod over a set-up unless they actually made it ridiculously slanted on purpose.
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Additional note:
Night 3 was a pre-determined event: a cleansing of corpses. This removed all of the dead people from Mikhail's ##Evocate list, Navarus' Corpsehunt, etc. At that point, Mikhail's only possible ##Evocate target at Day 4 was One.
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Why was I never given the deadguy quicktopic, then? That's more rage-worthy than anything else that happened in this game.
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Was this a town-only graveyard?
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It had Shadoweh, so no.
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Shadoweh was scum-lite. She got lynched D1, JUST like a good ITP. :3
Edit: Oh that's what you said.
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;_; Stoooop iiiiiit noooo go vote someone else guys cmon guuuuuys
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I think we simply forgot to give you the link.
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<04:37:34> "PX_": Looks like Shadoweh got her...
<04:37:37> "PX_": *shades*
<04:37:40> "Dormio": JUST DESSERTS
<04:37:41> "PX_": :V
<04:37:56> "PX_": YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH (http://mirrors.rit.edu/instantCSI/)
8)
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^_^
If it's any consolation to my god-awful town reads, I would have voted Depore without Conq's catch on Gut alone.
Why couldn't I revive Miya again?
Mod interference?
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Wouldn't it have pretty much caused you to win?
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I don't think it was too town sided myself.
While there were a lot of powerful town roles, there was only one even-day cop (while the other roles were useful they didn't exactly confirm scum by themselves), and on the Wiki Xix's role is considered a liability for town. Scum also had a lot of immunities on their side, should they choose to use it, and their roleblock was the highest priotiy in the game.
Mind you, I'm thinking of the typical 1 goon, 1 scum roleblocker, 1 doc, and 1 cop as the ideal level of balance for mafia.
You underestimate the power of a dead confirmed townie coming back not only once, but every day. You don't NEED a bunch of investigative roles for a town sided game. Also, do you REALLY think Xix's role was anti town? Do you *not* remember Diavolo? Xix had a third of that. Even a third is pretty damn powerful. Just think if *I* had had that role.
The scum had immunities that only tended to go into affect while they were killing.
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Kiro 1189 makes me feel slightly better.
Also, I'm not intending to yell at anyone about this. Sorry if it seemed that way...
@Mikhail: I actually kind of figured you would. When I saw you Evocate Miya I was like "GOD NO WHYYYYYYYYYYY!" because unless she self watched she was probably going to choo choo into Caladbook (Though if this is untrue, please correct me).
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Keep in mind that if Yuan hadn't been modkilled, she'd have needed to be lynched.
This would've put the game into 4p LyLo with Moonin still alive and Miya's result still appearing to clear Depore. Town likely would've lost in that situation. (Derp, never mind, I miscounted) In any case, considering ABGoM also came down to only one more unconfirmed player than the number of lynches the town had, I'm not inclined to consider this too ridiculous.
You underestimate the power of a dead confirmed townie coming back not only once, but every day.
And this is why I was kind of hoping that Mikhail was scum. That would've been hilarious.
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If Yuan was lynched Xix would have been tracked, not me.
I don't know how people would have reacted the next day, but I wouldn't have had the credit I got otherwise.
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If there is one thing I don't like about mafia it would have to be the activity.
There is generally little action in early game, and if you slip up bad enough there will be alot of posts pressuring you, plus the amount of cuts can become too big like that time Dormio had over 100 cuts (I think).
Also lol 1 cut.
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Dormio gets his cuts by leaving the browser open for 8 hours.
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Silly Dormio, potatoes don't get that many cuts.
They get more.
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I'll admit the thought had occurred to me Serp. Several times. But, no, I could tell he was town after the revives.
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[01:19:02] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Ooh, other annoying thing this game.
[01:19:10] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> People using online times against each other.
[01:19:58] <Reisen-Udongein-Inaba> Last Active times are super lame reasons to suspect people. There are way too many potential extenuating circumstances.
If I see this in the future I will start rolling up newspapers and smacking heads. Stop it. >:|
I think I ranted about this in the hydra QT for a minute. But yeah.
Anyways, 2/3 scum track even if 1 didn't work for diddly I'm glad I could use a town PR and not FUBAR it. :V
I learned quite a lot from this game. It was fun but I think I'm taking a break for a while :<
Schezo4U (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/wpugHCMHx7Ex)
Though I didn't submit a watch before I bit the dust because I figured I was going to :V Not sure who I would have chose.
JOB did well for his first game.
If I had pulled my meta this game I'm not sure how I would feel but I don't know with how this game got to 3-way. Yes it was town sided though.
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I think the main reason I made IffritaxMiya a 1 v. 1 was because they were BOTH awful looking. One of them essentially had to be scum. While the situation wasn't *objectively* a 1 v. 1, I feel in this situation, it *was* a 1 v. 1. If that makes any sense at all.
Anyway, K4U is pretty awesome at mafiers :V.
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Kilga did a good job to get himself into Lylo.
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So did my DreamEat do anything besides make it look like I was fakeclaiming the nightkill? It's not mentioned in my role, and all the nightaction list says is "Given a silly reply."
What I like about this game was that the scum turned out to be, up until the time they were decisively caught, the last people I ever suspected. No, wait, I don't like that, actually. Even though it's funny, my confidence is completely shot. I shouldn't have even joined this game, should I?
plus the amount of cuts can become too big like that time Dormio had over 100 cuts (I think).
You could leave the browser open for a week, yet nothing will top my being cut by my own lynch, approximately one hour into the day.
This does explain why Miya felt like lurkerscum to me what with being both a lurker, and a scum. But yeah, I did so bad this game, it's not even funny. I feel like I'm the sole reason we even got to lylo, and the game turned around pretty quickly when I did die.
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I think I did pretty bad, Quite bad, yes quite bad...
Though I'm happy I survived till NK, I still feel useless.
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I think I did pretty bad, Quite bad, yes quite bad...
Though I'm happy I survived till NK, I still feel useless.
Maybe earlygame, but your competence slowly increased as the game went on. I don't think you were that bad of a newbie.
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Both the newbies did really well, IMO. I never felt once like "Oh God I want you dead regardless of alignment", which is pretty good.
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Oh you darn Zak~
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So here is the Dorian doesn't read nor writes in QTs unless it's unavoidable QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/9HbnR65tRsDnx). Enjoy!^^
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So, thoughts on the game.
First of all. It should be noted Kiro actually objected the role, but I ignored it, so any complaints regarding this rule should be mine and mine alone. :V Although I appreciate Kiro willingly taking the blame for it. I had some longer spiel here but I don't think people'd appropriately understand the main point so scrapping that etc.
Secondly... I feel Town was lucky, or scum was just unlucky; having Iffrita tracked N1, Caladbolg shooting Iffrita instead of Miya and Yuan getting modkilled put their chances into jeopardy greatly. Could scum have won despite Mikhail? I feel they could. Naturally, I also feel that if Mikhail had not been in the game, D2 would've looked mighty different, and it effectively rendered the NK null. I'd considered Iffrita's self-governing power, Yuan's roleblock immunity in a setup with three town roleblockers and Depore's track immunity in a game where Miya was the only reliable Town-aligned Tracker to be quite scum-slanted but obviously, derpBard etc.
Third. I think hydras should not be permitted again. Of the three hydras I had to warn two about their conduct, as the hydra players in question were not acting in a mentor capacity, but moreso in a capacity of "here, let me help you play the game by doing your work for you"; this was not the intention of hydras, and thus I will never play in a game where there are hydras, as it gives an unfair advantage to any one player beyond role shens.
Well, that's mostly it. I'm disappointed mostly with myself for Mikhail's role and how it turned into an absolute failure (no revive at LYLO was a planned aspect of the role to prevent functional lynch immunity by reviving the towniest town ever), but I suppose the game was enjoyable for what it was worth.
I won't be releasing the mod QT to the public, or any of the QTs: people may release those at their own behest.
As a final note, to those people who were massively displeased with the setup: stop acting as if Pesco, Kiro and I will repeat a mistake as this. We overlooked a critical aspect, and yes, I deserve blame for not fixing it or heeding the opinions of the co-mods properly, but I feel it to be out-of-proportion to assume that any of the mods involved in this game would permit such an unbalancing feature to exist again in a game.
We're already aware the setup had some faults in it, but all I hear is "mikhail so OP". If it was just one role, and a specific aspect of the role (multi-shot use), you can rest assured future spins of powerful roles would be examined closer.
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This game won't be counted towards clearing LLD's first Yellow. The Yellow received this game will stay on record for 2 games on top of the one remaining.
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In regards to me objecting to the role, I did, but I felt I wasn't forceful enough. I spent about 2 QT posts talking about that when I spent more on other aspects of the setup. I was also moderately convinced after Bard's reply that it wouldn't be as big of a deal since I thought Scum would only have to deal with a confirmed Townie's opinions (not as damning) and I forgot about a confirmed Townie's counterclaiming (very damning). It was thought Scum could just kill Mikhail off, but we underestimated how difficult it would have been given game circumstances. So I still think I dropped the ball as well in my co-mod duty.
Secondly... I feel Town was lucky, or scum was just unlucky; having Iffrita tracked N1, Caladbolg shooting Iffrita instead of Miya and Yuan getting modkilled put their chances into jeopardy greatly. Could scum have won despite Mikhail? I feel they could. Naturally, I also feel that if Mikhail had not been in the game, D2 would've looked mighty different, and it effectively rendered the NK null. I'd considered Iffrita's self-governing power, Yuan's roleblock immunity in a setup with three town roleblockers and Depore's track immunity in a game where Miya was the only reliable Town-aligned Tracker to be quite scum-slanted but obviously, derpBard etc.
I agree with all of the above. In a game where everyone has a significant non-Vanilla role, I still think Bard put together something very good balance-wise barring the multi-shottage of Mikhail. My opinion is that without Just, it would be pretty even. With Just, it was tilted towards Town at the start and possibly towards Scum at the end if Scum were steamrolling. Overall, it favored Town, but certain events having gone a different way could have shifted things heavily. Caladbolg's vig worked for Town in the best way possible by shooting Iffrita before the Self-Governor. Otherwise, Town goes into a push with Caladbolg vigging her the following Day. Depore's N3 NK also served its function. Town also indirectly hurt themselves by lynching Just Day 1. And Yuan's mistake of Jailing Mala instead of Miya would have resulted in a completely different Day 2 (no NK, no Track on Iffrita). Such a change might have actually served Scum better this game. A swingy game, but that's role madness for you.
I don't think it's fair to say the ScumTeam were put into a trap with their roles. Their synergy is really good all around and when they were discussing what to do N1 and with the game setup relatively unknown, there were obvious benefits to having any of the 3 go out to NK. If it had been structured so that only Depore had some kind of special immunity, then you might all be arguing that Town was trapped into chasing people who had visited slain targets while the Scum laughs in the QT. Which could have very well happened anyways. Once again, it's not really an issue of balance, but of luck or swinginess and that's what you can expect when you sign up for role madness.
Why couldn't I revive Miya again?
Mod interference?
It was always intended that you couldn't revive during LYLO. It just wasn't put in your role PM as a hidden aspect of your role.
So did my DreamEat do anything besides make it look like I was fakeclaiming the nightkill? It's not mentioned in my role, and all the nightaction list says is "Given a silly reply."
I actually don't know the answer to this. Your role PM says, "You may DreamEat someone to learn more about their dreams and ambitions." I had assumed it would function as a weak Cop or Flavor Cop, but the pie thing really doesn't mean anything for the game setup so that's why I wrote what I wrote in the Night Action list. Bard handled all the Night Actions resolutions.
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Once again, it's not really an issue of balance, but of luck or swinginess and that's what you can expect when you sign up for role madness.
This depends on the mod, both in terms of how good they are at general setup balance and how far they're willing to go with roles. I don't think it's something a role madness mod should resign themselves to, I think it's something they should actively try to avoid.
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I don't mind swinginess, and honestly, I think this set up suffered from the same thing Jojo's did. A good set up broken in half by one role.
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the game does feel like it could have gone either way. any number of things could have happened to make this a scum win. The important thing to note about town role balance is that there will be a certain point where adding more roles inherently messed up the town's chances, due to roles stomping all over each other, and having an overall increased dependance on them. town are naturally more inclined to believe "This is information the mod gave me." over "This is what i think might have happened."
Also, that's what I figured would happen with my role, but then I got the pie thing and was even more confused/disappointed. It did tell me I had a good feeling about One, but I couldn't tell if it was just because of One's alignment, or more flavor. I completely discounted it when One then claimed every-other-night cop, which shot any chance of my dreameat being anything.
Cut: The Original Moriya Shrine Mafia suffered from broken role syndrome as well, It's a very easy trap to fall into when you're making up new roles.
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Right, ze DreamEat, it did nothing. It'd get a joke result no matter who you'd DreamEat. I assumed you would not want to switch PsychoLinks EVERY NIGHT, and decided to offer an option to do something else if you weren't doing anything anyway.
Also, honourary award to Huh What for guessing almost all players correctly. :V
Regarding Kilga, I think it's a difference in How To Mod a Proper Game that we'll probably never settle. I think a game is most fun and exciting if it can swing either way repeatedly, although I clearly failed in that regard here with Mikhail de-motivating the scum team too much. Of course, given that four players actively took steps to spite me with deliberate intention is telling of how frustrating the setup must have been for those involved, but it was equally frustrating to the mods to realise their error and be slammed for it during the past two or three Days of the game.
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My problem with swinginess is that it means the game is being decided less by the players and more by the role PMs. I guess if people prefer that, then more power to them, but I like to maximize the effect skill has on the outcome of a game, and I've found one of the best ways, if not THE best way, to do that is by minimizing the effect luck has on the outcome of the game.
A game is a lot more satisfying to me when I win on my own merits or lose on my own mistakes, things I can control, than when I win or lose on outside circumstances and things I can't control. It makes me feel like it was actually me playing the game, and validates the effort I put into playing more.
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Dormio gets his cuts by leaving the browser open for 8 hours.
It was 120 cuts because I went to play a game of DotS.
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I will release my QTs shortly. We had fun.
For what it's worth let me step in here and say that this game wasn't all LOL ROLES OP. Both town and scum displayed great skill this game, and most importantly, this town was paranoid. I really don't think scum are giving this aspect of the game more credit. This town never once suspended disbelief and in turn this restricted what Scum could get away with saying. On the flip-side, everyone felt the pressure. Even I did with my oh-so-op role.
About my role, I'm a little surprised scum didn't kill me off right-away. (Then again Mala did protect me N2). Was my role broken? Perhaps. But it certainly wasn't an auto-win. Shadoweh literally killed one scum and caught the other BY HERSELF. Mala needed to CC which wasn't forced, UK's revival only strengthened the case for HW scum only a little bit. One confirmed Miya as town even though Schezo was looking like confirmed town already (it helped a lot of course).
I think town did a fanastic job this game, with people getting superb gut reads regularly. (me not included)
So good job town!
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I was surprised by the fact that I wasn't rolecopped on N1.
When Yuan claimed jailer, I thought that they knew what my role in the game was.
My jailer looks scummier than Yuan's. (Full action immunity whee)
Turns out they didn't, and as Kiro said, it was really bad luck that I was confirmed town when I counterclaimed Yuan.
Also in regards to being roleblocked N1, in my rants about divination, my first post on D2 had be going on about how I was interrupted during the night.
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I do definitely agree with Dan that both sides played fairly competently this game. It made things interesting.
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My OTP's
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/G5VWFGLh7M6 (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/G5VWFGLh7M6)
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/4VESGQmZYkkKc (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/4VESGQmZYkkKc)
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/W72LffcjbFyu (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/W72LffcjbFyu)
I really wanted Moonin to be scum so that perhaps maybe Bard would let me revive everyone during fake-Lylo.
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General Rule of Balancing: For every power, there needs to be an equal and opposite counter balancing power.
If the Scum's NK is going to be crippled, you need to give them a power to counter it. In this case, giving the scum a x-shot obliteration power (when they kill, the kill is strongarm and cannot fail + the player they kill is mutilated beyond revival) would have helped enormously. X is an integer matching the number of reviver shots Mikhail has.
This helps the scum fight the 3 (count them 3) RBers and the reviver, but also keeps the powers of town intact, depending on how effectively scum uses their power/how well town uses theirs. It's a skill thing then, with both sides equal.
It's hard to do this sometimes, when you feel like you're over powering a certain team/ you want to give EVERYONE a power.
I don't think Bard should be blamed for the setup... it's certainly interesting... but I think that people should follow the above rule beyond any other, when balancing a game. There are other things to consider obviously, but this rule is a good way to prevent game breaking scenarios and powers.
[/mytwocents]
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That's something I realized a while ago and promptly forgot in Jojo's :P. About roles countering roles.
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An interesting idea that. However that would really be annoying for me, I would have been forced to revive town mislynches... after they claimed everything and died anyway. My role would be really useless...
Reading the QTs, I guess everyone is assuming I could use my summon as a meat shield, but that is not the case (I think). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have been voted for regardless if I summoned that day.
Edit: Then Again I might as well have revived Shadoweh for the lolz.
P.SEdit: Not really, I wouldn't have outed my role so easily.
PPS-Edit: Actually I would have no good reason to revive town mislynches anyway. Ya, I'd be useless.
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Reading the QTs, I guess everyone is assuming I could use my summon as a meat shield, but that is not the case (I think). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have been voted for regardless if I summoned that day.
No, you couldn't be voted. The flavor as explained to me by Bard is that you are channeling your spirit through the dead player. In essence, it was a player swap for the Day and was properly reflected in the votecounts. Otherwise, the game would have "increased" by a player and affected the number of people required to lynch unfairly.
It was thought the less you played and relied more on your revived Townie, the more suspicious you individually might be. However, that did not come true at all as your revived players hurt the Scum in a variety of ways and you did it every Day which just screams to players that you're probably Town. It could have been a huge WIFOM going into LYLO, but Caladbolg happened to break the orb that stated you were a Town aligned Treestump as well. Even if you were a single shot reviver, you were definitely one of the strongest Town roles.
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In that case, I was just clearly not paying attention.
I still am not sure why scum didn't attempt to kill me night 2 and beyond, and I was wondering where that Xix case on me came from.
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Part of it was because you claimed your role properly - as far as we knew, you were well and truly out of charges. Part of it was because the results of your Mala resurrection was sheer dumb luck and you were still a potential mislynch candidate before the second of three investigative roles popped up with your orb. After that happened you still weren't touchable because it was too much of a risk that Miya would watch you and get really suspicious when she saw you die without being targeted.
Which, incidentally, eliminates most of the advantage of the only actually useful NK powerup in this game. Whoever said scum weren't put into a trap with their roles (Kiro?), keep in mind that one scum was given a power that worked as a fake claim except for the fact that another townie also had that power, and two of the three scum had NK powerups that strongly suggested roles that didn't exist. Expecting scum to realize all of these things in time to do anything about it is a little absurd.
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Even in a game with no roles, the result of the game will still be based on lucky role PMs - namely, which players get sent a town role PM, and which players get sent a scum role PM. No matter how skilled you are, you still have to play with the team that you've been dealt, and this is a community where some players are overwhelmingly more likely to get lynched than others.
The purpose of roles is to add enough unknown factors that all players have to shake up their play a bit, reacting to unexpected things over the course of the game. They also give individual players (especially townies) a chance to have a disproportionate effect on the outcome of the game, depending on whether they use their roles wisely - even if only one of the top four skilled players in the game is on the town's side, he should still have his chance to tip the scales in his faction's favor, rather than just getting sidelined N1. Picking who to cop or who to roleblock isn't "random." It's based on the tells that scum and town power roles give, and it's as much a part of the game as the voting is.
In turn, the point of role madness is to give more players that chance of singlehandedly putting their team in a good position. This by definition means that the game will be swingy, but I don't think this is a bad thing. All that's important is that active roles require skill to use in proportion to the effect they have on the game, and for sufficiently powerful roles, the other team should have a countermeasure to either potentially counter the role completely, or to make it unreliable. Within those limits, all that's really important is that each side has a roughly equal chance of winning.
Though, in role madness games in particular, I think it's especially important for scum to have guaranteed fakeclaims, if not even more extra information about the setup. A role madness LyLo massclaim is hard enough for scum without forcing them to outguess the mod, and giving the informed minority extra information can also be a balancing factor.
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Kilga: Well, in regards to the setup, no Town night vig and a weak Cop is probably not something anyone expected this game. But for the Scum Team, whether the mods are being bastardy for making the 3 Scum each immune to a standard type of Night Action without really including 2 of them on the Town side is up for debate.
The Scum Team design clearly had an optimal way of play (which was extremely strong) that Bard tried to mask by giving them multiple possibilities. However, choosing any of the other options didn't make them truly gimped except for Depore's non-NK ability. Normally Scum don't have to think about who goes out to kill because there's usually a Vanilla Goon that does it. Here, they had to choose. Barring the fact that Depore's secondary ability had no real use this game, was this tri-immunity setup leading Scum down the wrong path or unfair in your opinion?
Apologies to the Scum Team in regards to the Mala and Yuan thing. That shouldn't have happened.
I think wondering about the better alternatives that could be thought up for some of the existing roles (making a Town Night Vig and a Scum Hitman shot, making only one Jailer/Commuter exist, etc.) is wishful thinking in regards to the past game. When I was asked to co-mod, Bard actually had everything prepped up from a while ago. I wouldn't say things were set in stone, but on the other hand, all the roles had been defined and because of that, I wasn't inclined to change an entire role, only to offer suggestions to tweak it. Now that we ran it once, there were certain inefficiencies with things and they all seemed to be slanted against Scum rather than Town, but this setup was still kept in Bard's vision and we now have examples of things that can work and things that should be avoided when possible.
Serp: I see your point about the fakeclaims, but it's not quite as simple as having the mod provide the fakeclaims and the Scum can just use them blindly. In this game, Iffrita could have used her flavor cop role as a fakeclaim, but because she was caught looking at the killed Townie-looking Navarus, the flavor cop fakeclaim or anything else the mod could have provided might have been useless. On the other hand, after seeing Depore's situation (Kilga was out of standard claim options and was considering to claim a Cop variant on Day 4 right when Mikhail would have Evocated One which would have kept Hina spinning for the Scum Team forever), that definitely deserves some attention. After seeing this game, I think the mod should prep something in full role madness, but at the same time, Scum should never expect what they're provided is a crutch for all situations.
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Edit: Then Again I might as well have revived Shadoweh for the lolz.
:< IT COULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD IDEA BRO! Except that I liked Depore and she was the last scum so I probably would have told you to lynch Miya for being the Scum. >.> Or posted only in lyrical form. Maybe even claimed to auto-win if the day ended so you got lynched. I mean trust me! :D
Hey Schezo how's it feel to actually be townie for once? I felt the same way as Zak, every scum revelation was like a kick in the teeth of shock. If there's anything this game proves it's that Scum can look like Town. Schezo did really well this game suspicions wise from the get-go. You thought you were trying to kill me from the start you jerk. :<
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Kill who from the start >.>
You mean how did it feel to be a semi sane townie for once. I once again have not figured it out but there was something different. :V
Stop making cracks at forever scum, he'll be back next time except with more sanity. (Oh God :ohdear:)
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[21:54] <Schezo> I think Empress is Shadoweh :V
>:<
EDIT:
[00:23] <Schezo> Shadoweh using acivity times again was just hrrrrrn
[00:23] <Kitten4u> I would have told you later, but I didn't want any backtracking accusations
[00:23] <Kitten4u> I was wrong about the book actually. Shadoweh was Just. :V
[00:24] <Kitten4u> So you got to kill her
[00:24] <Schezo> oh... well then
[00:24] <Schezo> ahh now it feels good~
I WILL DESTROY YOU >:<
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I have no idea how anybody could read me as Shadoweh.
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I have no idea how anybody could read me as Shadoweh.
Personally, I thought you were K4U.
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The only person I bothered guessing at all this game was Navarus.
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Oh right, setup comments.
Objectively, looking at the three scum powers, Iffrita's flavour cop looks the weakest and makes her seem like the mafia goon of the group, despite how her kill power is the reddest of herrings. A Framer seems powerful when one of your other partners gains immunity to investigations as well, making a cop a likely part of the setup. Come Night 1 I would likely have wanted to use the powers the same way the scum team did.
Just looking at the setup, I'm disapointed that I had no control over my own true win condition. Just's ability to win the game was based on luck and the probability of town stopping nightkills, falling into Iffrita's trap despite the dayvig put in to counter her, and there being no modkills or drop-outs. My role was neat and I'm highly disapointed in myself for not living long enough to see it in action, but as a conceptual guideline people should have to work towards their conditions to win instead of hoping the game plays itself out right.
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That's kinda where skill comes in. Can you play a tight enough game to keep securing the right lynches and not get killed along the way.
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considering one of the harder parts of the game is for the uninformed majority to figure out what the right lynches are in the first place, asking an uninformed minority to combine right lynches, wrong lynches, and more importantly, no lynches (which are hard enough to pull off in their own right) in equal amounts seems kind of unfair in comparison.
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Having almost perfect night actions information gives you a lot to work with.
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Irrelevant. My tracking could not have told me that I needed to get town to lynch Iffrita. It could not have gotten the scum to nightkill with a roleblocked member or attack a doctor'd target. I'm saying that it was impossible for me to affect the win condition I was suposed to be playing for.
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the best Shadoweh could have hoped to do, even if she survived day one, was pretty much be counterclaimed by Schezo.
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Or she could have just gone for the secondary win. :shrug: If I had received the role PM, I would have immediately assumed that the primary win condition was a bastard gag and just played like an ordinary survivor, given the number of players in the game and the likelihood of at least one vig.
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So did I at first, but Bard assured me it was possible and asked that I play for the primary win condition. My role pm says the same thing. (apparently the original Just wasn't a Survivor at all!) My complaint isn't that it was impossible, the setup makes it -very- likely to have a Day 7, it was just out of my control completely.
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You were never in control :smug:
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Shadoweh JUST couldn't handle how awesome her role was.
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can't you guys stop the puns for even ONE minute?
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[08:18] <Naganohara_dorMio> @choose post more JUST or don't
[08:18] <@Keine-tan> Naganohara_dorMio: I choose...don't! ^_^V
[08:18] <Naganohara_dorMio> fffffffffff-
[08:19] <~Pesco> JUST do it
Besides, we're JUST kidding around.
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Shadoweh should JUST give in and make this her new avatar.
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5305/nikejustdoit.th.jpg) (http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5305/nikejustdoit.jpg)
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Shadoweh should JUST give in and make this her new avatar.
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5305/nikejustdoit.th.jpg) (http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5305/nikejustdoit.jpg)
Almost.
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SO.
MUCH.
HATE.
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You JUST need to embrace your new self.
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can't you guys stop the puns for even ONE minute?
YUANna start a fight over this? Cause I got all sorts of MALAdictions to throw at you...
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I would bring the popcorn, but I have no idea where orwen you two are going to fight.
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I'll take you on any time, anywhere under the MOONIN sun! My wit's too sharp, and it'll NAVARUSt.
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If you guys were going to fight, you could have told MIYA'know. I would have brought some popcorn.
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I get the impression PX'd BOOK it, DEPORE thing.
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Don't worry, the Show's still going, so throw off your XIX and sit back.
Give me the MIKHAIL keep you all entertained.
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MALAughing is not stopping.
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I must admit I'm EMPRESSed by the IFFRIT All of you are putting into this.
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Everybody around MIYAgrees.
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Look, YUAN me agree XIX is DEPORE behaviour. You all JUST need to NIX it before NAVARUS can remember why we started. IFFRITA up to MIYA, I'd MIKHAIL on each of your ears. I don't know how ORWEN you caught this MALAdy, maybe it's the full MOONIN the sky, but ONE more pun and I'll throw the BOOK at you all.
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I think that Shadoweh is trying JUST a little too hard, there.
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I don't think Dormio tried hard enough. No pun intended.
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I think that Shadoweh is trying JUST a little too hard, there.
It's only one post. Let's just CALADBOLGus and continue on our way.
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I know Shadoweh, you're JUST trying too hard. IFFRITAim you try too hard, you're killing kittens!
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If we keep provoking her, she might try again.
I can only imagine what pun barREGIS NEX.
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In all honesty, though, these puns got old rather quickly. You could even say they are now...
8)
OF THE PAST.
/me is dayvigged.
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CAUSE IFFRITAIM WE TOUCH, I GET THIS FEELING
AND IFFRITAIM WE XIX, OSKIWEAR I COULD FLY
/me is dayvigged.
Relevant:
Throne tainted red with the blood of a queen.
The delight of ending a life so serene.
Contrast death's scarlet with the virility of green.
Open the emerald orb to see the unseen.
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I think we've milked everything out of this thread that we possibly can.
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I take it YUAN to stop?