Oni?

[illyx]

To start off, I know that's not the best title, but I'm not very creative.

Anyway, as I began to read deeper into Touhou stuff, something confused me. The way I see it, there appears to be some pretty big inconsistencies in the motives of the Oni when it comes to going underground and making that contract. Well, I have actually done a good bit of research, but there's probably some stuff I didn't think to look at. Hopefully you guys will be able to fill in the holes, because this is confusing.

First off, the reason they went underground is described in Perfect Memento:
"Unlike Humans who might resort to self-extermination, but because they were not too pleased with the way in which the societies of Gensokyo had become so carefree, they simply went to a different world that nobody knew of. Since then, contact of any kind with the Oni has ceased."
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Oni

Though this is worded poorly, it looks to me like... Essentially:
1. The Oni weren't like the Humans who would send exterminators to get rid of those who persecute them.
2. The Oni believed that most of Gensokyo was too carefree. This seems hypocritical to me. Oni seem to be the most carefree beings in Gensokyo. They party all the time, they don't care about excess violence and in fact they love it, they stay drunk 24/7, etc. So I really don't get what this is about.

And so they began to disappear from the surface world slowly, until the time of the formation of the Hakurei barrier. By that time, they were all underground.

However, they then made an agreement with the Youkai Sages.
"I promised not to let any Youkai from above down here. And then you all built a great city underground. But, in return I believe you promised to make sure the Evil Spirits underground would remain pacified."
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Subterranean_Animism/Translation/Reimu_and_Yukari%27s_Scenario#Stage_3
"We're even thankful for the Sages above ground. They won't let anyone come bother us here."
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Subterranean_Animism/Translation/Reimu_and_Suika%27s_Scenario#Stage_3
(for those who don't know who the Youkai Sages are, the only real mention of them other than here is in the Perfect Memento article on the Dragon, at least from what I can see)

Etc. Now doesn't it seem weird that the ones they wanted to keep out were the other Youkai?

Sure, it was the Humans who the Oni were interested in and would provoke into challenging them, and if the Humans lost they would be kidnapped. But then it was the Humans who resorted to trickery to fight back, something all Oni find despicable. It was the Humans who would send people to exterminate the Oni.
(note: for the above, see here for proof: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Oni )
And yet it was the Humans that were allowed underground. What did they even have against the other Youkai? Sure, as I said earlier, there was something about them being too "carefree" but that doesn't even make sense.

And another thing. A lot of people out there seem to have the misconception that the terms of the agreement are "everybody underground stays underground in return for having the youkai above ground stay above ground." We can clearly see this is not the case. Instead, it's the "Evil Spirits" that must be kept underground and pacified. It says nothing about the youkai underground being kept underground, despite how hated many of them are. In fact, we already know that Suika and Koishi have gone to the world above. For those wondering just what Evil Spirits are:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Evil_Spirit
Essentially, they're the ghosts that Rin Kaenbyou and the rest of her kind steal and control and such. The things that Rin allowed to escape through the geyser.

And another thing:
"Hoho. Well, since we're such good friends with Tengu, I'll look over it this time ... but on one condition."
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Subterranean_Animism/Translation/Reimu_and_Aya%27s_Scenario#Stage_3

Yeah, as you probably know the Tengu were once servants of the Oni, and the Oni had control of the mountain (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Encyclopedia:_Oni). Well, if there's one thing we know about Tengu, it's that they like to spread rumors and rely on manipulating intelligence and being roundabout about things (read the Perfect Memento article on Tengu if you don't believe me). We also know that Oni absolutely hate such things (the PM article on Oni backs me up on this as well). And now we see that not only do the Oni still consider the Tengu friends despite all of that, but Yuugi is actually going to overlook an assumed violation of their contract based partially on that fact.

The way I see it, if there's one race of Youkai the Oni would hate the most, it'd be the Tengu. Yet they like them. Sure, the Tengu don't seem to like the Oni as much (we know from http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Double_Spoiler:_Level_6_Spell_Cards that Tenma especially seems to have some kind of grudge against the Oni, among other things). But it remains the case that the Tengu don't seem to have been the basis for their grudge against Youkai from the world above.

And it does seem to me like it would be a grudge, because if they were just wanting to live peacefully down there... They chose a place most people simply never go to anyway, other than those who need a place to hide from their persecutors. Was there really a reason to go this far unless it was a grudge?

So yeah, if anyone has any answers... Please do share, and thanks in advance.

[Drake]

The PMiSS Oni article is difficult for me to translate, but there might be inconsistencies in there.

I'm going to bank on the fact that since the children of Are are indeed only humans, and likely based their knowledge on observations rather than first-hand experiences. Besides, to say an entire species hates another entire species is extraordinarily general.

I can't think very well right now so I can't provide more than that, though.

[Sabino]

2. The Oni believed that most of Gensokyo was too carefree. This seems hypocritical to me. Oni seem to be the most carefree beings in Gensokyo. They party all the time, they don't care about excess violence and in fact they love it, they stay drunk 24/7, etc. So I really don't get what this is about.

Carefree might not have been the best word to describe the relationship, but after the Onis dwindled in population, less people began to care about them. The Onis, in a sense, wanted attention.
If there was somebody that rivaled you, but the person suddenly became uninterested in you, how would you feel? -Pardon me for the poor analogy, but it does say in a section below that part that they had trusting relations due to the abductions and killings that they had.


For the thing about no Youkai going down underground was not what the Oni wanted, but I believe it was a contract to keep the power balance stable.
I don't have a source for this, but I have heard this quite a bunch of times.
As well as that, there also is an assumption of this linking to the next thing you brought up.

It says nothing about the youkai underground being kept underground, despite how hated many of them are.

Look at what Parsee says in Reimu& Suika's scenario.
She says that they were "sealed" there, and Yamame's theme state likewise (The "sealed Youkai" is an obvious hint, but also think about what "lost place" could mean if it was from Yamame and the gang's viewpoint.).
From the fact that only Koishi and Suika are the only ones that have been seen in Gensoukyou, I think there actually is something stopping most of them from coming out. -This could be connected to how none of the Youkai partners never went underground in person.
Also; interestingly enough, both the Tsuchigumo and Hashihime are regarded as a subcategory of Oni.

that Tenma especially seems to have some kind of grudge against the Oni, among other things). But it remains the case that the Tengu don't seem to have been the basis for their grudge against Youkai from the world above.

You can also interpret is as the Oni being quite allowing or they don't really care about the rulership of the mountain any more.
Another thing is that the Tengus built their own society over the heirarchy that the Onis created.
In other words, if the Oni were to ever come back to the mountains, the Tengus and Kappas will need to return to their previous positions, under the Oni.
It's like having a strict manager at your work moving to another shop/location in the branch.
You hope they never come back, because you like how your workplace is now a bit more laid back.
Although in the Oni's case, it probably wasn't that they were strict, but probably because they were too imposing of a race to have around. (Deducible from how Suika considers Onis on a different ground than all other Youkai.)