Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Hakurei Shrine~ => Rika and Nitori's Garage Experiments => Topic started by: Azure Lazuline on December 16, 2010, 02:58:35 AM

Title: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 16, 2010, 02:58:35 AM
Pictures speak louder than words, so I'll skip the introductions.

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/1-1.jpg)

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/2-1.jpg)

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/3-1.jpg) (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/4-1.jpg)

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/5-1.jpg) (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/6-1.jpg)

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/7-1.jpg) (http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/8-1.jpg)

(http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq111/Azure777/AWC1/9-1.jpg)

Download Page (http://bulletforge.org/u/azure/p/another-worlds-chaos/v/05-high-quality-music)
Also has more information and some other downloads, like just the soundtrack.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Schezo on December 16, 2010, 03:01:46 AM
Here I come to post on how awesome this is!

I'll leave feedback once I play it with all the shot types.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Chronojet ⚙ Dragon on December 16, 2010, 03:03:10 AM
So that's where "Azu*rai" went.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Naut on December 16, 2010, 03:24:55 AM
I'm curious as to what you changed from private to open beta. Anything we should look for?
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 16, 2010, 04:01:57 AM
Bug fixes, interface improvements (like the high score display, and your "cleared" status displaying on the results screen), a few changes to the danmaku (mostly in stage 2), and a few secret things added. Nothing earth-shattering, but it's a decent amount of changes.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Demonbman on December 16, 2010, 05:54:06 AM
EEEEEE! Awesome!
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Foremoster on December 16, 2010, 10:30:37 AM
Wow

Ⓘ Ⓗⓐⓓ ⓢⓔⓘⓩⓤⓡⓔⓢ ⓣⓘⓜⓔⓢ
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Kylesky on December 16, 2010, 02:40:49 PM
Pure awesome... (but I think it's a bit hard... only my opinion though :V)
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on December 16, 2010, 04:43:42 PM
Haven't played much and therefore only a single complaint:

Raibys' weapon switching feels slippy. I'd prefer having it like with MarisaB in SA where you have to push Shot and Focus for the shottype to switch.

Otherwise, yeah, can't add anything more to what the rest said concerning its awesomeness.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: DgBarca on December 16, 2010, 05:06:10 PM
"This kinda sounds like Strawberry Crisis!!"
*Strawberry attak*
OH MY GAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWD

Well, since the difficulty is not the same as in touhou, I played in "Planet".
The difficulty curse is kind of strange, some spell cards looks impossible when you faces them for the first time (like yukari's portals)

But seriously this is AMAZING, so shiny-*
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Schezo on December 16, 2010, 05:36:28 PM
 :ohdear: I got an error right before the second boss fight.  I was Lymia on easy.

Although I did make it to stage 3 with Raibys and you some awesome spellcards on that fight.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Infy♫ on December 16, 2010, 06:04:34 PM
doesnt seem like the gameplay/danmaku can compete with the graphics :/
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Schezo on December 16, 2010, 06:38:10 PM
Hmm that may be it because I've tried it a few more times and it didn't come back. Strange.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Jaimers on December 16, 2010, 08:26:02 PM
I'm really digging this so far, good job.

There seems to be something odd in the tutorial though. After the streaming tutorial Meteo's dialogue seems off if you choose the bottom option. He'll say the "impressive" lines and continues fighting you even though he says he's done.
I'm not fond of MarisaB's setup in SA but Raibys' weapon switching is just fine as it is for me.

Oh and as requested.  :V
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 16, 2010, 09:12:13 PM
For future reference: "I got an error" is not useful at all. Take a screenshot of the error window or copy it or something.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on December 16, 2010, 10:59:12 PM
I'm not fond of MarisaB's setup in SA but Raibys' weapon switching is just fine as it is for me.

I tend to tap Shift a lot in certain situations, that's why using it and it only for switching around weapons doesn't really feel like I have control over it. Maybe using C for the weapon change would be a good alternative.

Also
OMG KISUME CAMEO
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: WriggleNightbug on December 17, 2010, 12:01:01 AM
I remember re-watching the stage 1 video a few times and from that I never could've been able to predicted how much of a twist I was in for XD this is pretty amazing!

So I was like "Stage 1 is just how I remembered seeing it only with better danmaku for ender, and the stage 2 mid-boss sound-system guy is the cutest thing ever! and OH MAH GAWD Kisume! and then the words "Border of gensokyo" comes onscreen and im like .... WOOoooooo~ NO WAI!"

So yeah that was pretty fun and challenging XD it amazing what you've done with effects
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Chronojet ⚙ Dragon on December 17, 2010, 12:11:41 AM
and the stage 2 mid-boss sound-system guy is the cutest thing ever

:V
You would have caught the picture I put up on #danmakufu. It should be floating around somewhere. (http://b.imagehost.org/0551/not_a_boom_box.png)

Also. How does
Road to Makai
work? I can never actually capture it.
(Bomb spam is cruise control for cool. Yeah!)
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Bitz on December 17, 2010, 12:36:47 AM
Presentation is definitely great. I'm almost afraid of the effects, because they're just as good, if not better, than the effects in my own danmaku game.

The main issue I see with AWC, however, would be the fact that it's almost impossible to get past the presentation "layer" and rate the other aspects of the game - e.g., danmaku, gameplay, story, etc. From what I gather, the story is essentially "It's just a normal day, but not really, because there are evil things! Let's go blow them up! Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE EVIL" ? or, the equivalent of no story. This is unsurprising and almost expected, actually, but I can't really complain because Touhou's storylines are pretty bad too.

The gameplay system, that is, those weird symbol things, and filling up those various card-looking things on the right, is overdone and superficial. When there are five (?) types of whatevertheyares, and danmaku's flying around everywhere, there's no time to think "oh gosh I don't REALLY need a bullet clear right now" or soforth. The player doesn't really get a choice, really, because it's a huge flarghing blob of magic or technodynamic energy or whatnot and it's really hard to not gather; although in honesty, I really can't see anyone going "I don't need a bullet clear or item magnet or extra bomb." Henceforth, the gameplay system is simply a facade, that yields absolutely no requirement for any extra strategy at all, aside from the usual "RUN AND GRAB ITEMS" attitude that pervades all danmaku games; whereas PCB's cherry system requires strategic timing of borders, or MoF's faith system requires meticulous item-grabbing adroitness, or UFO's UFO system (derp) requires memorization and precise timing, AWC's symbolthingy system adds nothing to the gameplay at all.

Another concern with the gameplay is switching shottypes. Having a billion shottypes that can be switched between is not necessarily a good thing. Granted, put in the right context, the ability to change shottypes could be a great addition to a game, maybe its selling point. However, that game would have to be built around switching shottypes, not just shove it in as some sort of "extra" thing that adds to the shininess. At least AWC makes it simple: "Stage? Use the biggest spread shot. Boss? Use the focused shot." That's a no-brainer. I must admit that I haven't played enough of this game to truly criticize the shot-switching system, though; I haven't exposed myself to the nuances of the stages enough to be able to say with certainty that the shot-switching system is good or unnecessary. Using shift to switch shots is just plain annoying, by the way. At some points it leaves the player completely at the mercy of the game whether they have a focused or spread shot.

Danmaku - well, there's not much I can say about the danmaku. I felt there was a lot more "raw" danmaku than strategic danmaku, in the sense that memorization wouldn't be very helpful. Of course, it's questionable whether this is intentional or not, or more importantly, whether this is a virtue or a flaw. UFO, after all, is infamous for having lots of "raw" danmaku.

My overall impression is that AWC hides underneath a mask ? layers of fancy shiny magical effects, layers of an ostentatious attitude that pierces into every other aspect of the game: gameplay, danmaku, etc. It's going to take time to peel away at these layers, but eventually, these layers will be removed, and AWC's true colors will be exposed.

Summary
Story: 4/10 ? A story without a story. A world without a background. Zzz...
Gameplay: 6/10 ? Danmaku is not memorable, yet not bad. Most gameplay mechanics are unnecessary and ostentatious.
Presentation: 9/10 ? Awesome graphics, music, effects, everything. Scares the hell out of Bitzeralisis.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 17, 2010, 01:05:59 AM
All story complaints: Remember, this is less than half the game. Since when does Touhou have any story in the first three stages? The emphasis is on funny/cool dialogue and characters, not events. It's the same here. Also, the world actually has a lot of backstory and more characters (http://raibys.deviantart.com/), but I don't want to put all of it in the game - I'm going to make more games that take place in this world, so I'll put the deep story in a genre that it makes more sense in, not a linear shooter.

All shot switching complaints: Use a different character, then.

Quote
Henceforth, the gameplay system is simply a facade, that yields absolutely no requirement for any extra strategy at all, aside from the usual "RUN AND GRAB ITEMS" attitude that pervades all danmaku games; whereas PCB's cherry system requires strategic timing of borders, or MoF's faith system requires meticulous item-grabbing adroitness, or UFO's UFO system (derp) requires memorization and precise timing, AWC's symbolthingy system adds nothing to the gameplay at all.

I don't see how it's really different than "I shouldn't grab this border until later." You can either plan it out or you can just go with what you get. I don't want a super-complicated system, and I don't want it to be impossible to do score runs without planning out the exact item route. I'm aiming this more towards casual players than score players, and I want score to mostly represent how good you're doing in general rather than how good you are at scoring, if that makes sense.

I'm glad the overall reaction is really positive, though. I wasn't expecting everyone to love this, since I'm straying quite a bit from normal Touhou danmaku/gameplay (there's already 12+ of those, why make another one?), but I'm actually getting more positive feedback than I expected. I know my danmaku design could use a bit of work, but I'm personally happy with it.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Bitz on December 17, 2010, 01:34:00 AM
I don't see how it's really different than "I shouldn't grab this border until later." You can either plan it out or you can just go with what you get. I don't want a super-complicated system, and I don't want it to be impossible to do score runs without planning out the exact item route. I'm aiming this more towards casual players than score players, and I want score to mostly represent how good you're doing in general rather than how good you are at scoring, if that makes sense.

A border can be well-timed: delaying it could actually benefit the character. On the other hand, there is no such thing as a "well-timed extra life," although I suppose a "well-timed" bullet clear or item-magnet could make some sense. Generally, however, your game's screen is filled with enemies and bullets, and there are few opportunities where a bullet-clear would NOT be "well-timed." Item magnets would be useless during the high-health enemy parts, but as I said, most of the time the screen is filled with enemies and, henceforth, items.

I think what I'm really pointing out is that this whole game is just really, really showy. My criticisms are currently being subjectively influenced, I believe, so please excuse me if I'm being overly harsh.

Edit: Oh, by the way, is the middle character the only one with shot-switching? Based on everybody's complaints, I almost thought for a moment there that ALL the characters had shot-switching. My bad.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Chronojet ⚙ Dragon on December 17, 2010, 02:06:26 AM
Edit: Oh, by the way, is the middle character the only one with shot-switching? Based on everybody's complaints, I almost thought for a moment there that ALL the characters had shot-switching. My bad.

Nhimor has pseudo-shot-switching.
I mean, you can position your options one-by-one by tapping the shot button so you have a "new" shot type.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Raibys on December 17, 2010, 03:33:06 AM
Story: 4/10 ? A story without a story. A world without a background. Zzz...

Well, about you saying it's "a world without a background"... The characters and story are all from a universe and storyline I have been working on for years at this point; it's something I want to eventually make into a game and/or TV show eventually. (Azure already linked my deviantart account though, so that might have already been somewhat evident) This game is simply a sort of crossover of my world and concepts with those of Touhou. I as of late have even been working on a sort of encyclopedia for my universe where I've been organizing the sheer amount of characters, places, and just overall general...stuff I have made. It's far from presentable right now, though, and in this demo all this is not necessarily apparent I suppose.

Anyway, I also think your expectations story-wise are a bit unrealistic. I mean, it's a 3-stage danmaku demo, not an RPG. It's not like story was ever a huge focus in particular in danmaku in the first place, mostly due to the fact that, quite frankly, the danmaku format is not exactly the best medium for creating a story-intensive epic. Of course, that isn't to say that there *isn't* a real story to this game, because trust me, there is. But again, this is a demo, so I don't really think the fact that the "point" to the story not being apparent yet  can really be that worth criticizing.

*shrug*

But yeah, I have been inactive here lately, but in case anyone here doesn't know/remember me, I'm the other person who's been working on this project (though of course, we all know Azure is the more talented one out of us two , ehehe...), so I too appreciate all the feedback (whether positive or critical) everyone's been giving. ^_^;
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Bitz on December 17, 2010, 06:27:21 AM
I concede. I shouldn't be criticizing the story, and am sincerely sorry if I accidentally hurt your feelings (the word "years" especially had a profound effect on me, because I too have been working on a world for quite a while (though I couldn't possibly imagine it being a TV show)).
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Stuffman on December 17, 2010, 11:09:34 AM
I'm playing this a whole bunch and trying to gather my thoughts on it, until I have something more substantial to say here are a few thoughts:
- The dialogue is surprisingly entertaining.
- Lymia needs a buff I think, Ender can do nine Vorpal Blades before she can finish him, while Raibys and Nhimor can both capture it in just under six (with red mode and all options hitting, respectively). So that means she is only doing around 65% of their optimum damage which is pretty bad.
- On that note, Nhimor doesn't need the four bombs, he's a beast.
- I actually agree with Bitz somewhat about the item system, while I like the concept of the pseudo-chaining thing (which, by the way, again does not work in Lymia's favor because she doesn't have a way to do pinpoint damage), you don't really have a choice of what items you get to grab, it's just a matter of what comes your way. Compare it to say, UFO, where you get to choose what color of UFO you want; if you're going to have a resource management system there needs to be more choice involved than simply deciding whether to activate something now or later. I don't think the system needs to be scrapped but I'm not quite sure what should be done with it at the moment.
- The bullet clear in particular seems questionable, since when you need it most (i.e. fuckton of bullets onscreen) you don't have the freedom to go grab it. It also doesn't help that it's difficult to judge how much energy the item will give you based on it's size.
- As a side note, I played the tutorial specifically to find out what each item type does and Meteo was like "lol figure it out yourself". This would be nice information to share :V
- The game is extremely noisy visually, with all the shiny stuff onscreen and EVERYTHING being rainbow-colored it can be easy to lose track of what's going on. I'm not sure what specific examples I could give at the moment, but I think it's important that enemy bullets need to strongly contrast with everything else onscreen.
- Meteo as secret playable character plz
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: KomeijiKoishi on December 17, 2010, 03:08:45 PM
All shot switching complaints: Use a different character, then.

Sadly, Raibys is still the character I like playing the most.

Maybe I just have to live with it.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Iryan on December 17, 2010, 03:42:06 PM
The experienced disappointment with the story in comparison to touhou despite it not actually being worse than them is easily explained by the fact that with the touhou games you usually have quite a bit of preexisting knowledge through general forum chit-chat and buildup by ZUN, which obviously was not really very possible with AWC, as well as the fact that most of us play the official games before there is an English patch, so there is no dialogue for us to care about on our first playthroughs, as well as the fact that with the regular games we already know several of the characters and other info about the setting.

Though I still think that just because ZUN doesn't weave the story well into the games, that does not mean that it isn't possible. But since you said you wanted to redo the dialogue of at least Raibys' scenario, I am pretty confident that you two will be able to improve on this.  :3
Title: Mongo
Post by: Infy♫ on December 17, 2010, 04:08:32 PM
I think the story should at least be made a little more clear in the dialogue.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Suikama on December 17, 2010, 05:36:01 PM
Bullet clears need to happen more often. I always get them right before the boss durdurdur :getdown:
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 17, 2010, 05:50:56 PM
Lymia needing a buff: Remember that she has homing shots and chain-lightning, so she hits many more enemies than anyone else at the expense of being weaker against single targets. She is also the fluffiest, which gives her a distinct advantage, as well as having some of the best bombs. I'll consider increasing her damage, though.

Nhimor having four bombs actually doesn't change much. That just means three extra bombs over the course of the game, just to offset him being the hardest to use character. His bombs are still the weakest overall, even though his unfocused bomb has extremely cute sound effects.

As for the items, I'm not 100% satisfied with it either. I think the item effects could be better, but I like it overall. Maybe if the effects were more useful to plan ahead of time, it would be more interesting. Also, nobody seems to be taking into account that, even while the items you get are semi-fixed, it really depends on what enemies you choose to kill and your strategy for each wave. It's not like in Touhou where you'll always kill every enemy. Also, as evidenced by the latest post, there are times when you shouldn't get them, which is why I gave them a slower drop speed - you can get all the other items without unintentionally triggering the effect if it won't be useful. Perhaps I just need more waves of enemies that have different drops for each side of the screen, so choosing which one to get is more pronounced?
If anyone has ideas for other effects that don't include invincibility, tell me.

Also, like I said before, I don't want a complicated item system. The UFO system seems to detract a lot from the game in my opinion, having to plan out everything beforehand and rewarding memorization. MoF's Faith system is similar, though not as bad (except screwing over your score if you die even once, which is horrible). I mean, I like complicated systems, but I just wouldn't want one in this game.

More story talk: I think it's more important to have distinct characters and funny dialogue than it is to have a complex story. I'm glad so many people are interested in it though, and I'll have the remaining stages focus more on that - so far, the characters have only fought minor enemies, but the big guys are coming up pretty soon.
Also, Iryan, we already did.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Momiji on December 17, 2010, 07:21:03 PM
Danmakufu.  Enough said, sorry.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: CK Crash on December 17, 2010, 07:26:58 PM
Danmakufu.  Enough said, sorry.
why would you post this in a forum that's 90% dmf
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 17, 2010, 07:28:38 PM
I queried him about it, he got mad that DMF is Windows-only and he's running Linux. Not worth posting about in my opinion, so don't discuss this further.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Momiji on December 17, 2010, 07:29:05 PM
why would you post this in a forum that's 90% dmf
I was hoping to play it...   ?  I heard there were fuzzy things, and I like fuzzy things.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Raibys on December 17, 2010, 07:40:04 PM
About the story and characters: Azure and I just talked this morning, and we've come up with a few ideas to help make next release have a bit more background going for each of the characters and the general scenario and stuff. It will include accessible "profiles" +artwork of the people that show up in the game (kind of like the ones ZUN includes in his games, but most likely more in depth) as well as perhaps some information about the world that the playable characters and the Cybers come from, and what the Cybers...do and why. Also, as stated before, when there is more game to be played, more story will come up. Overload is strong, but is still far from the strongest or most important Cyber, so...yeah.

As it is, we're considering putting up some profiles+artwork separately as I prepare them, so you'll probably get to see at least some of this stuff pretty soon actually. ^_^;
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: KrackoCloud on December 17, 2010, 09:11:11 PM
The danmaku has a distinct style is very refreshing! But the patterns are pretty hard to read in this game, especially in those cards with unactivated/aesthetic lasers.
I like the music, and the item system is nice. I wish there was another playable character with a straightforward shottype. It's a bit frustrating to not be able to use two of the characters, and thus be forced to use a spread/homing-type character.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 17, 2010, 09:36:21 PM
You can use any Danmakufu player script you want, although it won't save high scores. The full version will have more player characters though, including a straight shooter. I just prioritized these three characters because in my opinion, weird shot types are more fun. Besides, they're not that hard to use if you practice for a while. If you just want to mess around and learn how to use a character without worrying about dying, just turn on unlimited lives in the options menu.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Stuffman on December 17, 2010, 09:43:56 PM
I wish there was another playable character with a straightforward shottype. It's a bit frustrating to not be able to use two of the characters, and thus be forced to use a spread/homing-type character.

Raibys and Nhimor aren't really so difficult if you just play with them for a while and get used to them.

Raibys - use yellow mode during stages. It turns into blue mode when you focus which is pretty good DPS, then you can rotate back to yellow once you're clear. Use red for bosses if you have a clear shot, black is also good against certain cards if you don't want to stay under the boss.

Nhimor - the trick to using his options is to place them based on what you're doing, not what the enemies are doing. If I have time to set up I like to drop all four options in a horizontal line and move to the center, then focus and move them around, gives good coverage like Reimu C in MoF. When you're moving to the side of the screen, drop the options behind you, that way you keep that half of the screen clear so it's easier to get out. During bosses just drop all four options on yourself and focus fire, it has very good DPS.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Bitz on December 17, 2010, 10:05:00 PM
Okay, I'm playing through the game more seriously now ? so I'll type up some of my thoughts as I play.

Lymia's shot really is pretty weak. The slight stage advantage is not worth the boss disadvantage. In fact, there might not be a stage advantage at all, because many enemies have too much health for Lymia to kill before they fly off the screen. I can use Nihmor's shot as kind of a straight-forward if I just tap Shift+Shot every once in a while.
The stage enemies in Stage 3 have a lot more health than previous enemies. I can't seem to kill any of them before they go off-screen.

My overall impression of the danmaku is that there's just too much going on at once. Each individual aspect of the danmaku is creative, but by forcing many of these aspects together into the same pattern, they all try to overpower each other until what comes out is just a chaotic mess. If the danmaku is somewhat redesigned, I can see it becoming much more sensible and fun to play. Stage danmaku also feels the same way: I noticed that there was a LACK of repetition, which made it a lot more dynamic but also confusing at the same time.

The characters seem really one-dimensional. Ender's all like "I will use my Cyber-ness and weapons to kill you," and Empegh is very "I AM NOT LOUD WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HURRRR" and Overload's just generically evil, if you know what I mean. The stage 3 midboss, well, she might be a deeper character. And Yukari's just Yukari. I only read Nhimor's dialogue, but the impression I'm getting of him is that he's a giant color-changing single-celled thingy with no detectable sense of consequence. He just wants to see explosions and kiss girls, and doesn't even understand why a random stranger would refuse to be kissed by a giant blob.

Another thing I noticed is that there are a LOT of specialized bullets, or bullets that are only used in one specific pattern and not others. This is bad if it is overdone, and especially if it is done without any good reason. For example, Empegh's second spell has those big rainbowy squares, which I somewhat questioned, because people usually imagine sound waves in the shape of crescents, not squares. The rice-bullets with circles around them feel unnecessary, as if they're just there for the sake of being there.

Score and PV items look reaaaaally boring in comparison to all the other shiny graphics.

How did you do the scrolling-rainbow effect on the Capture Bonuses? I've been trying to do something similar in OpenGL but I haven't found a simple way to do it for complex masks yet.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 17, 2010, 10:19:58 PM
Lymia being underpowered again: I didn't want the "simple" character to end up the best (IN border team), so I intentionally made her a bit weaker... looks like I overdid it.

Too much going on: Mostly a style choice, but I'll keep it in mind.

One-dimensional characters: No need to repeat the same counter-arguments over and over, so just read the last page of replies.

Specialized bullets: Another style choice. A lot of the bullets will be used more evenly, since again, this is only the first few stages. I had crescent bullets for Empegh's attack, like the one right before it, but I didn't like how it looked at all, so I switched it out for something else. As for the "rice bullets with circles" being there just for the sake of it, you can say the exact same thing about ZUN's circled bullets.
I just like a lot of variety in general, as should be painfully obvious by now.

Score items being boring: Super-flashy rainbow score items would get in the way. The items are boring on purpose since otherwise they would be distracting or overpower the bullets, though maybe I could make them slightly animated or something. Also, it's refreshing for someone to say "this isn't shiny enough" rather than "AAAH, TOO SHINY."

Scrolling rainbows: Effect object with a strip of vertices (about ten), then setting the color for each one and having it scroll. It would be really easy if your color system used HSV rather than RGB, so I made a pseudo-converter for that purpose.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: KrackoCloud on December 17, 2010, 11:08:15 PM
Oh, one thing. After a boss attack ends, the bullets fade away rather slowly. It's pretty distracting/disorienting. It might be better to make them fade more quickly?
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Jaimers on December 17, 2010, 11:31:24 PM
Just to let you know, you get a script error everytime you want to practice spellcard 19 in boss practice.

Also, 2/2 on That One Card.  :V

1/100 on "Labyrinth of the Mind" though. I find this easily the hardest thing in the game so far, everything else didn't take more than 15 attempts.   @_@
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 17, 2010, 11:41:25 PM
Bullets fading more quickly: It's either that or instantly disappearing, since I'm using Danmakufu's built-in bullet clear since it's global. It shouldn't be much of a problem since there's usually a few seconds between spell cards anyway.

Error message: Now why didn't any of my testers (or me) discover that? I'm obviously fixing that for next release, but I don't think it's a big enough deal to make another release just for that. If anyone really wants to practice that attack, I could send a fixed file, though.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Bitz on December 18, 2010, 01:24:24 AM
When I said the score items looked boring, I meant that they look very similar to the default danmakufu items, not that they weren't seizuretastic enough. The similarity to Touhou's items bothered me because while everything else seemed heavily stylized, here were some Touhou-style items, looking really out of place.

Edit: IDDYEA HAS NO PANTS
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Raibys on December 18, 2010, 02:05:52 AM
Yeah, she finds them overrated or something. (http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/278/e/5/iddyea_the_dream_angel_by_raibys-d3063vl.jpg)
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Zengar Zombolt on December 18, 2010, 11:52:50 PM
This is the shiniest DMF creation ever. Your computer must be angry at you for typing ADD so much times.
Anyways, only one complaint. Those soul/whatever items are somewhat... odd, as in I have no idea when I'm getting one and when I'm not. Is there a chance that you can make those items a little bit more... defined? I'm not sure if I'm wording it correctly.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on December 19, 2010, 01:35:15 AM
You mean you don't know when you collect one or not? I could probably have a better disappearing animation or sound if that's the case. Until then, you can just keep an eye above your character, which will display numbers when you collect one. If you mean the hitbox isn't well-defined enough, there's nothing I can really do about that, since I really like the current graphics. Hopefully it's not too much of a problem.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Bitz on December 19, 2010, 02:42:04 AM
The swirly things' hitboxes are a bit hard to discern. They're pretty large, though, and most people would underestimate their size, I believe. This is a good thing, because instead of rushing up to collect one of those items and finding that they actually aren't close enough and took a risk of dying for nothing, they'll collect the item before they think they will and get more time than they expected to retreat back to safety.

The sound effect and disappearing effect for those items are pretty obvious to me. I don't see much of a problem with them.
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Naut on February 03, 2011, 08:09:41 AM
Thread revival.

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apAZZicR2Ac).

Some stuff:

</late>

Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Paper Conan on February 03, 2011, 09:57:13 PM
Wow. I just saw Naut's upload and all I have to say is.... "wow"
The art isn't that good (but then again ZUN's art is meh) (you actually grow used to it after a while), but the gameplay, graphics, animation, music.... everything @_@

I highly recommend this game to be sold (as long as you have ZUN's permission). I just..... love........ it......
Please finish this project. I don't think I can "wait warmly while the girls prepare"....... for that long.

I LOVE YOU....

 :getdown:
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Ordinary Neumann on February 04, 2011, 03:35:37 AM
Easily the best Danmakufu game I've ever played (Barring maybe CTC).
Title: Re: Another World's Chaos (3-stage demo release)
Post by: Azure Lazuline on February 11, 2011, 06:00:26 AM
History not working correctly sometimes: people should have told me back during actual beta testing. I knew I screwed up at least one, even though I double-checked it all, but too late for that...

Visual cue for the boss low on health: Check the enemy marker. It changes color and flashes faster when the boss is low on health.  I'll add an additional effect to make it more obvious, if you want.

Focused speed: Personal preference, really. When I had Raibys's focused speed low, I found that I was forced to unfocus sometimes to dodge things that shouldn't really require it, which can be pretty limiting for something like Frost Form (which you never seem to use anyway, so it probably wouldn't matter to you). I tried to find a balance, and I'll probably lower it by 0.5, but it's staying somewhat high.

Effect blindness: Yeah, I'll cut down on it. Yumemi seems to be the only one that multiple people complain about, though.

Too many lives: Remember that you also die more often, since lives aren't linked to bombs, so having tons of lives isn't as much as it seems. I mean, in the video you posted, you were still pretty short on lives by the end... Also, the only things that drop pink are the bosses (and one or two individual stage enemies), and bosses drop slightly more if you capture an attack.

I'm trying to go for a "high difficulty but lots of lives" method of balancing, rather than "low difficulty and few lives", for multiple reasons. It makes each mistake less of a blow on your overall performance but requires the same amount of skill overall (same logic for the new bomb system), plus playing through lower stages is more fun when you're trying to capture things you haven't before (as opposed to Touhou, where if you reach the final boss and play through again, the first half of the game will probably be extremely easy with no real challenge).

Art: I'd rather focus on the important things instead of something you see just in dialogue. At least there's more variety in the poses.

Selling the game: it's going to stay free. It wouldn't feel right selling something that's inspired and based on someone else's work.

I love you: I love you too.