Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87

[Helepolis]

I'm seeing more and more portrait art posted on danbooru and have to be honest that some of the characters look good with the artwork change but others not. Marisa looks bit chubby and out of style imo and Byakuren entirely weird. On the other hand Futo and Miko look great like Ichirin etc too. Oh well, just have to deal with it then.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

and Byakuren entirely weird.

why?

[UTW]

I prefer Aya Azuma to Moe Harukawa, but it's not a very significant difference to me. I liked Makoto Hirasaka too. He was very well suited to the Three Fairies series. But Aya and Moe are extremely competent and, it seems to me, the most well rounded of the regulars. alphes was fine for what he was. He didn't need to do much more than that. Until HM, anyway. No idea what happened there since his art from not long before that looked a lot better. Aki Eda just couldn't draw emotion and action scenes for the life of her. She has like 3-4 faces. She did fine with the slice of life, at least.

If we get a returning character to go with the rumors, I see Sanae, Reisen, Komachi, Kaguya, Yukari, Kogasa, Nue, Suika, Seija, and Seiga as the greatest possibilities. I know I'm casting a wide net. Anyway, Sanae and Reisen are being thrust back into the spotlight, though I can't really see a way to tie them in, especially in a potentially penultimate character role, though I still see greater reason for them to be involved than Sakuya. Komachi (Or Eiki? That would be cool) *could* be interested in this type of incident. Kaguya has the Mokou connection. Yukari often has an interest in incidents or could be an instigator (she brought in the hobgoblins, after all). The rest are known as mischievous tricksters or who have been known to incorporate urban legend imagery who could be tied to the incident. But at least in the case of Seija, who has the Shinmyoumaru connection, I think another game could be a little much. Seiga is a bit of wishful thinking, but she does have a match plotwise in Kasen.

Thinking about it now, it'd be pretty cool to see yuugi duke it out
Her title is "The So-Called Unexplainable Phenomenon" and her power is to wield unexplainable phenomena (whatever that means) so I won't put her out of speculation completely
Thats a char I'd definitely love to see actualized

Well, this is kind of a mistranslation, as I recall. We've never actually seen her do anything with her power, which is based on an idiom by Confucius, or something, and has a rather simplified translation. It would be awesome if she showed up, of course. Maybe she wants to draw Kasen out? But based on what she's done, her power is seemingly only there to explain her unexplainable strength, since just saying "Strength" is rather boring. That's not to say she couldn't receive further development. I would love to see her, but I just don't think it's too likely.

[monhan]

why?

Maybe it's because now she seems smaller, in a lot of ways. She consists of more hair, making her looks slimmer/smaller in comparison, and the prayer beads also become gigantic.
Color-wise, the purple part of her hair is more dominant than in any other pictures.
It's not exactly bad, but if you asked me what I find odd/different about it, then there you go. I don't know if it's just me though(of course, the skirt tucking hand is absolutely fine in my book).
As for alphes' version, the only iffy part was her right hand that looks a bit too small because of the lacking sense of depth. Other than that, it is superior in my opinion.

Personally though, I think Miko has the worst portrait in ULiL compared to HM. She doesn't look majestic at all. Some even go as far as saying she looks like a slut, mostly because of the hands.
Only her normal portrait though, her SC portrait is fine.

In general, quite a lot of people complaining about the current art have problems with the round face, big eyes, and a syndrome of same face. It's what makes Moe's style unique, but I do can see where they come from, looking at several of those portraits.

[cuc]

An element I forgot to mention: Shinmyoumaru has some fishing-based attacks. This is because the Japanese word hari "needle" can also mean "hook", especially fishing hooks.

Her only projectiles shown in the PV are koban gold coins created by Miracle Mallet, falling in a parabolic arc. You can see one of the coins hit Kasen at 4:20. Just judging by the video, she has an even greater melee bias than Youmu.

Re: artwork

You can always mock Harukawa's incapability to draw hands, knees or feet.

[SuperVehicle-001]

Was the new episode of Forbidden Scrollery released yet? Last one had us on a cliffhanger regarding the urban legend of Kokkuri-san, so I'm thinking there may be some hints (or stuff like that) in the upcoming chapter.

[cuc]

Was the new episode of Forbidden Scrollery released yet? Last one had us on a cliffhanger regarding the urban legend of Kokkuri-san, so I'm thinking there may be some hints (or stuff like that) in the upcoming chapter.

It's out in Japan for less than a week. Judging from spoilers and reader comments, it might have set up a little something for ULiL, but there is zero substantial anything as a story in itself. Itsuari (Five Ants), the guy who predicted "Hata" as the boss of HM, straight called it "worst chapter ever" (in the history of Touhou manga?).

Speaking of Itsuari, the day ULiL was announced, he made a random guess based on nothing but the idea it is a sequel to HM and well, the appearance of toilets in Harukawa's flyer. Zeami, the master of Noh theatre famously wrote:

「秘すれば花なり。秘せずは花なるべからず。」
"If it is hidden, it is the Flower. If it is not hidden, it cannot be the Flower."

("The Flower" in Zeami's writing refers to Grace, the aesthetic heart of art.)

The kanji 秘 "hidden; secret; esoteric; mystery" in the title reminded him of the quote, so he gave the new character a speculative name of "Hanako" (Flower-daughter), also the name of the toilet ghost.

I'm not sure the ULiL character will have anything to do with aesthetics (Kokoro seems to have that position occupied), but his theories are pretty high-quality.

[monhan]

Was the new episode of Forbidden Scrollery released yet? Last one had us on a cliffhanger regarding the urban legend of Kokkuri-san, so I'm thinking there may be some hints (or stuff like that) in the upcoming chapter.

Last one as in chapter 26 about the Oujia board with Rinnosuke, that they use to do Kokkuri-san?
Chapter 27 continues with the game, strange things happen, and Kosuzu ponders again about going to "that other side". People think it raises even more death flags.

Otherwise, look at cuc's post

Speaking of Itsuari, the day ULiL was announced, he made a random guess based on nothing but the idea it is a sequel to HM. Zeami, the master of Noh theatre famously wrote: ("The Flower" in Zeami's writing refers to Grace, the aesthetic heart of art.)

The kanji 秘 "mystery; secret; esoteric" in the title reminded him of the quote, so he gave the new character a speculative name of "Hanako" (Flower-daughter).

I'm not sure the ULiL character will have anything to do with aesthetics (Kokoro seems to have that position occupied), but that was an uncanny coincidence.

Inb4, rivalry between the flower youkais.

[cuc]

Chapter 27 continues with the game, strange things happen

Not much of a spoiler: nothing happened, not even the usual Suzunaan shenanigans.

[TresserT]

Speaking of Itsuari, the day ULiL was announced, he made a random guess based on nothing but the idea it is a sequel to HM and well, the appearance of toilets as a player icon. Zeami, the master of Noh theatre famously wrote: ("The Flower" in Zeami's writing refers to Grace, the aesthetic heart of art.)

The kanji 秘 "hidden; secret; esoteric; mystery" in the title reminded him of the quote, so he gave the new character a speculative name of "Hanako" (Flower-daughter), also the name of the toilet ghost.

I'm not sure the ULiL character will have anything to do with aesthetics (Kokoro seems to have that position occupied), but his theories are pretty high-quality.

I didn't even consider that. Like, at all. Maybe this Hanako girl has nothing to do with the urban legends That would explain her name, and why she has that name despite Marisa having Hanako of the toilet. That seems really likely to me, actually.

[monhan]

Not much of a spoiler: nothing happened, not even the usual Suzunaan shenanigans.

I was referring to the Kokkuri-san game, and more ReiMari.
Though since I haven't read it, there may be nothing significant there after all.

[Clarste]

If we get a returning character to go with the rumors, I see Sanae, Reisen, Komachi, Kaguya, Yukari, Kogasa, Nue, Suika, Seija, and Seiga as the greatest possibilities. I know I'm casting a wide net. Anyway, Sanae and Reisen are being thrust back into the spotlight, though I can't really see a way to tie them in, especially in a potentially penultimate character role, though I still see greater reason for them to be involved than Sakuya. Komachi (Or Eiki? That would be cool) *could* be interested in this type of incident. Kaguya has the Mokou connection. Yukari often has an interest in incidents or could be an instigator (she brought in the hobgoblins, after all). The rest are known as mischievous tricksters or who have been known to incorporate urban legend imagery who could be tied to the incident. But at least in the case of Seija, who has the Shinmyoumaru connection, I think another game could be a little much. Seiga is a bit of wishful thinking, but she does have a match plotwise in Kasen.

I would remove anyone from the list who's already appeared in SWR or Soku. It just seems to me like ZUN would find it a waste to draw new sprites for a character who's already had their time in the spotlight. No one but Reimu or Marisa is so important to the story that they would deserve such a treatment.

[Fumi]

I would remove anyone from the list who's already appeared in SWR or Soku. It just seems to me like ZUN would find it a waste to draw new sprites for a character who's already had their time in the spotlight. No one but Reimu or Marisa is so important to the story that they would deserve such a treatment.

ZUN does not draw the sprites but you are right, I think he mostly does not want to add previous characters from SWR/Soku (Besides our protagonists) because he is focusing on the post-MoF arc, meaning he wants to give more weight to newer characters.

[Tiamat]

Yea, it was somewhat implied with HM, but with ULiL its pretty much a given.  All the characters besides Reimu and Marisa are the newer ones with the exception of Mokou, but Mokou's so underutilized (in everything besides her one CiLR chapter) that she might as well be new (sure, she isn't at Flandre or Yuuka levels, but its possible those two are that way because ZUN doesn't want to utilize them much for whatever reason, unlike Mokou whom he clearly likes despite not having her show up much because she got her own CiLR chapter.  One which had no relevance to the overall plot so ZUN purposefully went out of his way to write it).

[Fumi]

Yea, it was somewhat implied with HM, but with ULiL its pretty much a given.  All the characters besides Reimu and Marisa are the newer ones with the exception of Mokou, but Mokou's so underutilized (in everything besides her one CiLR chapter) that she might as well be new (sure, she isn't at Flandre or Yuuka levels, but its possible those two are that way because ZUN doesn't want to utilize them much for whatever reason, unlike Mokou whom he clearly likes despite not having her show up much because she got her own CiLR chapter.  One which had no relevance to the overall plot so ZUN purposefully went out of his way to write it).

Mokou never appeared on the fighters so she as Kaguya or Ran for example, were candidates for a surprise character, this is a pattern we have never seen before. (During SWR we just received Aya, Komachi and Reisen who were relatively new and everyone appearing after IaMP, except Reisen but storywise she had still not meet anyone from the original cast)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

caught up on this today. I'm fine with the art honestly, though if those remixes in the compilation videos are the actual ingame music then I miss U2. mokou's theme is dope though.

btw, is it ever stated how much creative control ZUN has over the fighters and how much of it is tasofro? cuz some stuff in previous fighters seems OOC for him (eg, mamizou's titty intro) or like a weird interpretation of the girls' abilities (eg, mamizou's transformation super). I guess what I'm saying is that Mamizou is weird. still curious

[cuc]

caught up on this today. I'm fine with the art honestly, though if those remixes in the compilation videos are the actual ingame music then I miss U2. mokou's theme is dope though.

btw, is it ever stated how much creative control ZUN has over the fighters and how much of it is tasofro? cuz some stuff in previous fighters seems OOC for him (eg, mamizou's titty intro) or like a weird interpretation of the girls' abilities (eg, mamizou's transformation super). I guess what I'm saying is that Mamizou is weird. still curious

He has considerable control - he wrote all the stories, everything lore-related must be filtered through him, and he can make game design suggestions. E.g. he vetoed using Momiji as Aya's assist attack in SWR, saying they are not on good terms. The teapot super was definitely ZUN-approved, as it was concurrent with the appearance of the teapot legend in the FS Vol. 1 omake story.

With that said, the development of HM seemed shockingly haphazard even for Tasofro, and I suspect ZUN didn't have time to actually play the game until much later. Otherwise, why would something as fundamental to the game's theme as the correspondence between the emotions and religions be changed by a patch half a year post-launch?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

ohh no I mean the super where she transforms people into animals, which seems odd when her profile said if she tries to disguise a creature as another it's easily seen through, meaning it wouldn't alter their ability to attack

what's the source on him vetoing a momiji assist? would be interested in reading about SWR and HM development if it's translated anywhere

[cuc]

I think the transformation only lasting a few seconds is enough to show it is limited.

From a creator perspective, shouldn't the transformation super be one of the first things you think about when you've got an animal shapeshifter on hand? It is the best chance to comment on your characters using animal motif shorthands.

The Momiji veto's source was a tweet by Tasofro's Unabara. As discussed in the thread, there was some information on Tasofro's old diary. The majority of info on SWR and Soku came from an internet stream (audio recording; a recap in Japanese; a translation of the recap).

An interview with Unabara.

For more recent games, development info pretty much all comes from the developers' tweets.

[Gpop]

I think the transformation only lasting a few seconds is enough to show it is limited.

I would say it's moreso for gameplay balance rather than possible canonicity, in terms of how long it lasts.

[cuc]

I would say it's moreso for gameplay balance rather than possible canonicity, in terms of how long it lasts.

And spell card battles are a game with balance considerations in-universe too. If ever represented in shooting game terms, the transformation will probably be similar to Shinmyoumaru's "you grow bigger": a survival card with restrictions on player movement.

[Starxsword]

No one but Reimu or Marisa is so important to the story that they would deserve such a treatment.

I'm influenced by that Sanae song, where she's sort of an urban legend, but I think Sanae fits the 7 schools mystery so very much. But yeah, I don't think she will appear.

I would say it's moreso for gameplay balance rather than possible canonicity, in terms of how long it lasts.

Its kind of meta, but yeah, what cuc said. Any spell card the users create would have limits. Whether or not the user has such a limit is another discussion entirely.

[Abraham Lincoln]

I know I'm seriously late to the party, but when I saw Shinmyoumaru in the character roster, I practically jumped out of my seat with excitement. Now I'm abnormally hyped for ULiL, knowing that my favourite character is now playable.

I'm looking forward to hearing U2 Akiyama arrange her theme.  :V

[Starxsword]

("The Flower" in Zeami's writing refers to Grace, the aesthetic heart of art.)

The kanji 秘 "hidden; secret; esoteric; mystery" in the title reminded him of the quote, so he gave the new character a speculative name of "Hanako" (Flower-daughter), also the name of the toilet ghost.

I wasn't thinking about this. But this makes me guess maybe the final boss is that Udonge plant that Kaguya has around her.

[cuc]

Itsuari also considered the possibility that the Occult Balls are the jewels of the Jeweled Branch (i.e. the Udonge plant), thus the plant is fulfilling its mission to sow discord on the earth, and leading the story into LoLK. (By the way, Itsuari is a mad, mad fan of Bougetsushou, so he will doggedly try to connect everything back to the moon saga, beyond what is sensible.)

Kaguya as the midboss, the Udonge plant as the new character. The main issue is that making use of early plot elements like that is too insular, too much like fanfiction-thinking, while ZUN generally always prefer to create new elements based on new inspirations.

[cuc]

The web demo is released. And...

ZUN: However, Tasogare's server is having trouble breathing.

The server is all busted at the moment.

EDIT:
My download isn't finished, but I can already compare the manual.txt files for changes. Some of these changes might be clarifications rather than design changes. Hasty translations w/ dubious terminology:

The manual now differentiates between normal moving up & down and rushing up and down (Flight + direction, can be performed once before returning to center).

Dashes can be performed twice before returning to center.

Melee strings can be modified by direction keys.

Occult Attacks are now performed by Melee + Shoot.

Three comeback options:
* Comeback: when being blown away, press any action button or 4 + any button.
* Beatdown Avoidance: at the center, before becoming beaten down, press 4 + any button.
* Move-and-rise: when beaten down, press 4 or 6.

Kasen's dragon is called 黄帝 Koutei, a.k.a. Huang Di, the Yellow Emperor, China's greatest mythical ruler, also considered an exemplar Taoist in Taoist lore.

Kasen's two other spell cards are:
Wrapping Sign "Prosthetic Arm Proteus"
Eagle Sign "Hawk Beacon"

[Formless God]

Is Kasen's song in it? This is incredibly important.

[mauve]

I like how they didn't have enough sense to put up mirrors this time, like they usually do.

"5 hours remain"

Tasofro's own Twitter states that apparently it has trouble running on some NVidia hardware and they are giving the fantastically bad advice of modifying your driver install to fix it. Really guys?

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

Tasofro's own Twitter states that apparently it has trouble running on some NVidia hardware and they are giving the fantastically bad advice of modifying your driver install to fix it. Really guys?

lolwut

I have NVidia, no way I'm modifying things just to make a game run. If they screwed up, then it's their responsibility to fix the bug, not our responsibility to adapt our hardware to their bugged stuff.

[FearNagae]

They put a mirror but it seems like it's doing worse than the original link atm  :derp: