Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87

[monhan]

To be honest, when I hear people say "I don't like/not good at playing flying fighting games", what do you compare it to anyway?

[Aya Reiko]

I wouldn't call it bad, but I would say certain things are concerning.

1. The weather/curse orbs system.

Obviously.  What is perhaps the worst part of this is that curse orbs are so intimately tied to gameplay that it would be problematic to just hack weather away.  I'll have to wait until whenever I can experience the game with other people in order to see what sort of effect it has on the game overall, but I can say right now I hate trying to get the Smash Ball.

2. Pressure/mixup.

The game has neither throws nor high/low mixup, which makes it hard to open people up.  I didn't play enough HM to understand how that really changed the game, but I imagine that I'll have to learn a good blockstring to even play the game at its most fundamental level.  I wish I knew why Tasafro was so against throws with regards to the Touhou fighting games, EFZ had them!

3. Removal of character abilities.

This one's pretty minor, but I thought the HM ones were cool, and I don't see much value in removing them (Reimu side-swapping, Marisa 3 star buildup, etc).  I do think all 3 characters in the demo feel good and complete, so I don't think they *need* them, but they would be nice.

-----

But there's also a lot of good things so far.  The game controls much better (partly due to the addition of a dedicated dash button) and is less floaty.  I'm one of those guys that actually prefers the lack of character customization over the previous game (Third Strike-style super picking is fine by me).  Perhaps the best thing is the removal of popularity and faith, both of which I hated.

So it's definitely got potential, but I do think weather/orbs as they exist now will prevent it from ever being a really good game, but it could be fun in doses.

I'll add in my own; I've given up on TasoFro ever making a game on par with Melty Blood.  As in, a game I'd want to show to non-Touhou fans.  Melty Blood is the game that introduced me to Tsukihime (and, by proxy, the Nasuverse) and I know I'm not alone.  I'd like something in a similar vein but for the Touhou mythos instead.  In the decade since IaMP, TasoFro has not significantly grown as a developer and feel completely behind the times.

[Flandre5carlet]

Sorry to break it to you, but Medicine getting in the top 10 30 in the popularity polls is more realistic than that  :V I wanna see something that's neither shooter nor fighter for 14.8 but that would be less realistic than the Watatsuki sisters getting in the top 50...

Don't destroy my dreams, man. ;_;

To be honest, when I hear people say "I don't like/not good at playing flying fighting games", what do you compare it to anyway?

Personally I'm just not good at fighting games in general, whether they're flying or not. :U Be it Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Hokuto no Ken,... I'm just bad at every fighter I've played, and in turn that makes them pretty unenjoyable to play.

[FearNagae]

I'll add in my own; I've given up on TasoFro ever making a game on par with Melty Blood.  As in, a game I'd want to show to non-Touhou fans.  Melty Blood is the game that introduced me to Tsukihime (and, by proxy, the Nasuverse) and I know I'm not alone.  I'd like something in a similar vein but for the Touhou mythos instead.  In the decade since IaMP, TasoFro has not significantly grown as a developer and feel completely behind the times.

I think that's pretty subjective- to me tasofro has grown up a lot since EFZ. They are making new kind of fighters, and they are improving. Though of course, I'd have my subjectivity as well and I'm going to exclude 13.5. EFZ to IaMP to SWR to soku looks like improvement, though I won't be so sure about 14.5.
I play melty blood etc and to be honest I'm going to stick and say 12.3 is my favorite fighters of all times, it's probably tasofro's masterpiece and most popular game as well- it's easy for newbies and yet offers massive depth and rewards people who learn more and practice more.

But of course it's subjective 

[Spotty Len]

I'll add in my own; I've given up on TasoFro ever making a game on par with Melty Blood.  As in, a game I'd want to show to non-Touhou fans.  Melty Blood is the game that introduced me to Tsukihime (and, by proxy, the Nasuverse) and I know I'm not alone.  I'd like something in a similar vein but for the Touhou mythos instead.  In the decade since IaMP, TasoFro has not significantly grown as a developer and feel completely behind the times.

Same thing for me with Tsukihime actually, and I would love something like that, but I think they want to stick making something unique for their fighters, and Melty Blood is much closer to traditional fighting games. It has complicated mechanics, but it has a standard ABCD control and standard circle/SRK-based special moves. It's not that hard to adapt for someone who has been playing fighters like Street Fighter or BlazBlue.
13.5 decided to completely abandon that and go with directional normal and special moves. I'm fine with that as I'm open to different battle systems and I'm willing to train a bit to get used to it (I mean, I had a harder time adapting for Melee than I did for HM), but I can understand people got confused over it and were not appealed by the gameplay itself.

Of course, something unique is fine, but making it appealing to all kinds of players is another task. I'm not even sure that's their goal though... :V

[Gpop]

I'll add in my own; I've given up on TasoFro ever making a game on par with Melty Blood.  As in, a game I'd want to show to non-Touhou fans.  Melty Blood is the game that introduced me to Tsukihime (and, by proxy, the Nasuverse) and I know I'm not alone.  I'd like something in a similar vein but for the Touhou mythos instead.  In the decade since IaMP, TasoFro has not significantly grown as a developer and feel completely behind the times.

tbf, I don't think ANY game will ever be on par with Melty Blood. No fighter that spawned from a bigger universe has ever gotten me into said universe, except Melty Blood. Hell, Melty Blood even got me into the Fate/Stay Night series as well. (I'm still waiting for a Fate fighter similar to Melty and developed by French Bread).

It also comes from the fact that Melty Blood was so good it was THE anime fighter for a long time.

[Doki-Doki]

Is it reasonable to presume just from the demo that there wont be any skillsets/abilities? Tasofro might just save them for the main game.

[FearNagae]

Is it reasonable to presume just from the demo that there wont be any skillsets/abilities? Tasofro might just save them for the main game.

It's possible, but at least, I find it pretty likely that they'd add one more button for skills/specials.

I'm not sure whether if I'll get the bingo this time but I had a ton of bingos for my predictions of 14.5 trial  :derp:

[Doki-Doki]

I can't remember if HM had a demo at all, but from the ULiL demo I'd just guess they're saving the best for later.

[Suspicious person]

I can't remember if HM had a demo at all, but from the ULiL demo I'd just guess they're saving the best for later.

HM had a demo, and even had another web demo released around april 2013 with new moves (oooh, time sure flies fast)
Not sure wether Tasofro plans to do things the same way for ULiL, though.

[FearNagae]

There's usually another demo around a month before the release.

So we can expect something coming this April!

[Shizzo]

HM's first demo was very different from how the game originally came out.  Your last words had to be equiped in slots just like every other attack, and it was nearly impossible to declare+use spellcard when an opponent was stunned.  Stunning alone was already much harder. 

So yeah I'm pretty positive ULiL will be pretty different when the next demo comes out! 

[Gpop]

HM's first demo was very different from how the game originally came out.  Your last words had to be equiped in slots just like every other attack, and it was nearly impossible to declare+use spellcard when an opponent was stunned.  Stunning alone was already much harder. 

Actually it was much easier. The white stun was much longer than the full/web demo version, as you can see how I had enough time to dash half screen to the opponent, declare, and adjust before using it and still being able to confirm the combo (on top of SC damage remaining unscaled like a raw declare).

[monhan]

Some changes I'm quite sure will be added, are the obvious complete SCs for Kasen and customizable skills on the C moves, akin to HM but you only have one button to customize.
I mean, Reimu and Marisa are fine, but is there anyone who can find a good use of Kasen's 2C? Aside from maybe, as an overhead, but it's too slow.
Though since the skills are incorporated to the dial As, I guess it won't happen. But I wish it will.

[FearNagae]

Some changes I'm quite sure will be added, are the obvious complete SCs for Kasen and customizable skills on the C moves, akin to HM but you only have one button to customize.
I mean, Reimu and Marisa are fine, but is there anyone who can find a good use of Kasen's 2C? Aside from maybe, as an overhead, but it's too slow.
Though since the skills are incorporated to the dial As, I guess it won't happen. But I wish it will.

They'd add one more button for skills most likely.
Kasen's 2C creates that lightning in front of her which has decent hitbox, and aside from that is also a decent safe on block melee special

[Shizzo]

Actually it was much easier. The white stun was much longer than the full/web demo version, as you can see how I had enough time to dash half screen to the opponent, declare, and adjust before using it and still being able to confirm the combo (on top of SC damage remaining unscaled like a raw declare).

Huh, funny!  Back when I tried the demo out there were like... one or two combos which I actually managed to pull of declaring and attacking.  Maybe it wasn't the very first demo, hm.

[Doki-Doki]

I'm looking forward to playing the next demo as well, hoping to see more useful changes. Also I'm quite impressed with the bot AI in versus mode, never thought I'd get combo'd into a spellcard by Reimu.

[Clarste]

I noticed that too. Usually I play these games by beating up on a harmless punching-bag AI, but this time they can fight back a bit. Someone actually good at these sorts of games might not even notice, but it's quite an upgrade.

[Maple]

I'm looking forward to playing the next demo as well, hoping to see more useful changes. Also I'm quite impressed with the bot AI in versus mode, never thought I'd get combo'd into a spellcard by Reimu.

Do we know if they'll put a free demo on their website as they did with HM?

[FearNagae]

Do we know if they'll put a free demo on their website as they did with HM?

It has always been that way, so we can expect something coming in less than 2 months  :derp:

[Suspicious person]

"Something" like spell cards, new specials, a few changes in the mechanics, a new stage, and a new bgm, maybe ? I can totally see new "weathers" being added later too !

[cuc]

Spoiler from the new chapter of "Kosuzu's shady business".
http://imgur.com/a/bQYn0

It has not been confirmed that this chapter is connected to Touhou 14.5 - in fact the chapter is supposed to come out tomorrow (the street date is Feb 26, and it's Feb 25 in Japan now), but people are already getting excited. I'll make sure you know if this is unrelated.

[FearNagae]

Spoiler from the new chapter of "Kosuzu's shady business".
http://imgur.com/a/bQYn0

It has not been confirmed that this chapter is connected to Touhou 14.5 - in fact the chapter is supposed to come out tomorrow (the street date is Feb 26, and it's Feb 25 in Japan now), but people are already getting excited. I'll make sure you know if this is unrelated.

It looks pretty likely to be related! The outfit that person wore looks pretty similar with the silhouetted character at the end of the demo story mode.

[cuc]

Further spoilers indicate this may be another one-off story lol.

[Suspicious person]

An evil faced caped guy with sharp nose and ears? I am fine with this. Seems Suzunaan wants to end the monopoly of youkainess from lovely female characters.

[Doki-Doki]

If that person turns out to be the character in the silhouette, calling it now, it's a disguise~

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

An evil faced caped guy with sharp nose and ears?

No. Thanks.

[Doki-Doki]

I'm looking forward to reading the new chapter then to see if it holds anything related to the games, though I really doubt the character is genuinely the silhouette, I don't feel like ZUN would give it away that easily.

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

I'm looking forward to reading the new chapter then to see if it holds anything related to the games, though I really doubt the character is genuinely the silhouette, I don't feel like ZUN would give it away that easily.

Indeed, that definitely would be anti-ZUN.  Not to mention the character is male and well... ZUN said himself sometime ago it'd feel off if he were to put a male boss in a Touhou game.

I remember when he considered putting an old man as UFO's final boss before eventually abandoning the idea.

[Doki-Doki]

Indeed, that definitely would be anti-ZUN.  Not to mention the character is male and well... ZUN said himself sometime ago it'd feel off if he were to put a male boss in a Touhou game.

I remember when he considered putting an old man as UFO's final boss before eventually abandoning the idea.

I remember that as well, if I remember correctly the old man was supposed to be Myouren Hijiri. Either way, I doubt that character is the silhouette. If it is I stick by my theory that it'll probably be a disguise to look more menacing for the actual perpetrator herself if it actually is the figure behind the silhouette.