Author Topic: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87  (Read 807933 times)

Drake

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I'm pretty sure it's just meant to reference the various urban legends being malleable and up for grabs.

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Quote
The word itself can also be more generally used to mean up-in-the-air or unfinished, as in the phrase "in limbo."

Probably just that. Yuyuko controls the Netherworld, which would be what you can call "limbo".

Colticide

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Quote
-Good intentions

Sekibanki

While she's not an evil character, she not a good one either. IIRC she really doesn't like anyone and keeps to herself, but being very cynical and prideful.
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Koog

  • I live to protect those dear to me,
  • as a good friend would.
While she's not an evil character, she not a good one either. IIRC she really doesn't like anyone and keeps to herself, but being very cynical and prideful.
I totally agree here. She just attacked because of the mallet. But she isn't a nice youkai either
Mwahahahahha!

Fumi

  • Dragon of Seven Colors
  • Disaster in Takamagahara
I think the best example would be like in SWR it had Iku as a new character as well as the pre-boss before Tenshi.

Yeah, but only happened during SWR. Besides I-I kinda wanna see more slots for my fave characters ;-;

I'm pretty sure it's just meant to reference the various urban legends being malleable and up for grabs.

Yeah, this. I don't think there is too much for the name other than the story we already know

While she's not an evil character, she not a good one either. IIRC she really doesn't like anyone and keeps to herself, but being very cynical and prideful.

True indeed but well she could be interested mostly in protecting the youkai hiding in the village or something. Maybe there could also be "stray" characters like Nitori and Koishi (before we knew she has the mask of hope) which do not seek neither.

Colticide

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True indeed but well she could be interested mostly in protecting the youkai hiding in the village or something. Maybe there could also be "stray" characters like Nitori and Koishi (before we knew she has the mask of hope) which do not seek neither.

Good point, we don't fully know everything about her yet except what we were given. I'd laugh if that shadow was her and she's was just messing around in DDC.
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cuc

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I always figured there's a 50-50 chance "limbo" refers to Gensokyo, the place for things that have lost their usefulness. But there will probably be a twist nobody can foresee about this title.
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ElGreko

  • 私だ。エルグレコ。
  • 南無三
Looks like the kobito with a cape on to me.
I started to think of Sekibanki...

Lol, everyone see different things.
I'm sure I'm still wrong on many levels but I see something kinda like that:

Done very quickly in less than 20min (using no model except the mysterious silhouette). It's only "conceptual".
(the absence of colors and details is made on purpose, since guessing them would be totally random)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 08:40:04 PM by ElGreko »

My gut feeling tells me that maybe someone from the SDM may show up since, y'know, they basically owe a Chupacabra now.   That's pretty much as far as urban legends go, yes?

Doki-Doki

  • Oki-Dokie!
  • Ooh, scary, scary!
Just a thought I had about Mima finally returning in this game and being the character behind the silhouette we see in the demo, aside from general appearance similarity there's also a fact people didn't notice, the silhouette appeared in front of the Hakurei Shrine, and in PC-98 canon it was always said that Mima haunted the area around the Hakurei Shrine. Secondly, and this is probably just a small detail but the purple orb that spawns infront of Reimu and turns into the mysterious figure seems similar to how Mima appeared in stage 5 of Story of Eastern Wonderland, and with purple orbs around her before the battle begun. Probably just me over-analyzing things but I can't help but think it makes sense she'd appear in this game, she'd also fit well in the setting. Urban Legends = ghost stories, and Mima is an vengeful spirit to begin with, so it makes sense why she'd cause an incident like this. Not saying it's fact, but just my theory/prediction for her being in the game!

Suspicious person

  • Just a humble wanderer
  • How suspicious~
This could hint that the final boss might be another religionist we have never heard about.
The whole religious thing should have been settled with HM so I don't expect anyone popping up anytime soon in the faith business, and exploiting rumors should feel pretty low grade for a major religious figure (they gotta have standards). Also, with the kind of clothes she wear, I  expect her to be more like a magician or something. Maybe she is related to the outside world in some way or another because of the un-gensokyo like rumors?


Pirated

  • Fairy of Average Intelljence
  • Touhou... that's an anime, right?
I was doing a little digging a found this.
Anyone have any idea why it's here? I'm assuming that ZUN just copy pasted the icon file of the HM into ULiL and added Kasen, but I could be wrong...

1cc N: PoDD, LLS, MS, PoFV
1cc H: You're joking, right?

ElGreko

  • 私だ。エルグレコ。
  • 南無三
Just a thought I had about Mima finally returning in this game and being the character behind the silhouette we see in the demo, aside from general appearance similarity there's also a fact people didn't notice, the silhouette appeared in front of the Hakurei Shrine, and in PC-98 canon it was always said that Mima haunted the area around the Hakurei Shrine. Secondly, and this is probably just a small detail but the purple orb that spawns infront of Reimu and turns into the mysterious figure seems similar to how Mima appeared in stage 5 of Story of Eastern Wonderland, and with purple orbs around her before the battle begun. Probably just me over-analyzing things but I can't help but think it makes sense she'd appear in this game, she'd also fit well in the setting. Urban Legends = ghost stories, and Mima is an vengeful spirit to begin with, so it makes sense why she'd cause an incident like this. Not saying it's fact, but just my theory/prediction for her being in the game!

It won't be Mima. In every fighting game they release, there is a new character, there is no way they'll recycle an old character for that, assuming the silhouette is the boss supposed to be the new char. (well, there is a chance the silhouette is a a sub-boss and some true boss will appear after, but it's not very likely to happen)
I'd still like to see Mima and some old characters like Konngara in any fighting game but it probably won't happen, and will never happen as a last boss.
And she appeared in front of the Hakurei shrine because there is only 2 stage available, so yes you're probably over-analyzing stuff, lol.

The whole religious thing should have been settled with HM so I don't expect anyone popping up anytime soon in the faith business, and exploiting rumors should feel pretty low grade for a major religious figure (they gotta have standards). Also, with the kind of clothes she wear, I  expect her to be more like a magician or something. Maybe she is related to the outside world in some way or another because of the un-gensokyo like rumors?
I agree with the fact it won't be religious any more. This is a new game with a new story.

I was doing a little digging a found this.
Anyone have any idea why it's here? I'm assuming that ZUN just copy pasted the icon file of the HM into ULiL and added Kasen, but I could be wrong...

Lol it's the standard icons, you even have the ibuki gourd (it was also in Shinkirou) and Suika was not a playable char. Icons are supposed to be various and numerous because it's a sort of customisation (you can still draw and create your own, by the way), so it's normal they add all they have in stock (you even have hisoutensoku's logo, lol).

Regarding Ichirin appearance, I still think the old cast could be added in the game anyway or in the next sequel at worst. (or maybe there will be a trick to play them (like for Hisouten->Hisoutensoku).)
(But some of Kasen's physical attacks oddly reminded me some of Ichirin's attacks...)
Anyway, let's just wait and see.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 04:15:51 AM by ElGreko »

So I found out that not only can you combo into Kasen's LW (through her Spell Card) but you can also KILL your opponent without any CH whatsoever
Since the LW with 7 balls is supposed to be powerful, and getting 7 is not exactly easy especially in competitive play. And the LW at 4 balls is actually weaker than most spellcards.
I think that's quite fair, G.

Though I still don't really like all the SC to LW thing. Hope they won't make it too lean with the stun.
Another way they can do it is maybe to add another requirement to use the LW. Like one bar of meter for instance. So you cannot chain the two of them
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 04:16:30 AM by monhan »

ElGreko

  • 私だ。エルグレコ。
  • 南無三
I thought exactly the same. It's so hard to make and rare that it's perfectly balanced (that reminds me the >95% damage you could do on Hisoutensoku under certain conditions with some characters and specific decks). And the said combos are pretty cool.

What do SC and LW stand for btw?

But something I still wonder... There is no real penalty (except chip damage) when you block some attacks, except having less chance to catch the occult ball? Or is there something else?
In many games you can just hit on some blind spot when the other doesn't guard correctly, or break the guard (even for Shinkirou the game was removing some of your popularity if you blocked too much).
But for this one, is it just that you have less opportunities to catch the ball or is it something I didn't notice?  ???
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 03:56:40 AM by ElGreko »

I thought exactly the same. It's so hard to make and rare that it's perfectly balanced (that reminds me the >95% damage you could do on Hisoutensoku under certain conditions with some characters and specific decks). And the said combos are pretty cool.

What do SC and LW stand for btw?

But something I still wonder... There is no real penalty (except chip damage) when you block some attacks, except having less chance to catch the occult ball? Or is there something else?
In many games you can just hit on some blind spot when the other doesn't guard correctly, or break the guard (even for Shinkirou the game was removing some of your popularity if you blocked too much).
But for this one, is it just that you have less opportunities to catch the ball or is it something I didn't notice?  ???

SC = Spell Card
LW = Last Word

There is a guard break. Blocking too much will eventually break it, but the one in this game is an especially tough guard. Unless it's a really tight blockstring or SCs, don't expect it too break. And not to mention the pushback of the barrier guard.
It's something that I wish they'll nerf.
And blocking doesn't always make it harder for you to get the ball. In fact, you can use it to push away the opponent when the ball is behind you. Anyway, it all depends on how you use it.

Also, add some penalty to grazing. Really, I can just dash cancel up and down infinitely to graze through bullets and SC like Reimu's Barrier!
Maybe a graze limit can be a solution to that.
It's a bit unfair, when they finally managed to make the Story Mode SC a little bit more challenging than HM.

Razzi Zadhna

  • bye chagen
There is no high-low mixup in this game (why, I have no idea; mixing up based on where on their hitbox you actually hit them--like Smash--would be interesting), yes. Which is one of the problems they imported from HM kappa #KusoToTheMax

Branneg Xy

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I don't see it happening, Shou's pagoda was an item in HM yet she didn't showed up. The occult ball just references to many mysterious places. Hmm, actually that sounds like a good idea, could this be a hint of what characters to appear? How many effects are?

Nah, Sekibanki's cape around the neck area isn't that big, besides this character has a hat. She's probably a new character altogether,if we read the story's mode script Reimu does not notices this mysterious character, only feels their presence as something dark.

I think the characters that will make it are those that either plan to use the occult ball/urban legends to gain power or use the urban legends to make the village stay safe.

Whose fit that criteria?
-Evil intentions
Maybe Remilia
Nitori
Orin
Nue
Seiga
Mamizou?
Seija

-Good intentions
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Akyuu
Kosuzu
Keine
Mamizou?
Kokoro?
Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru
.....
Very Interesting initiative and criteria,yet there is one small zit:in the demo Marisa's persona is coming from HM/DDC/ISC and is showed  fitting under the "evil" intentions field;thought that has a nice change chance ,as nice as my hope about either Remilia, Sakuya, both or additional "Scarlet Denizens" being present.
If so , I am figuring Remilia would probably fit both categories and ultimately step into the "good" one where as Sakuya would probably be firm in the latter harboring some doubts.
Beautiful intuition for those who said high change for other servants and at least one unimplemented master to show up.

On Wakasagihime,those 3 repliest struck me and I checked the sources and my previous memories :     <  http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Wakasagihime> Official profile

"

Stage 1 Boss: Mermaid Living in Fresh Water

Wakasagihime

Species: Mermaid
Ability: Ability to grow in strength when underwater

A quiet and composed freshwater mermaid.
Normally a quietly living youkai that sings songs and picks up stones.
They are not an enemy of humans.

She was affected by the Miracle Mallet's magic power, became ferocious,
and was punished by Reimu and company.

She's behaving herself once again by now.

"

She does not seem nor neutral nor callous but well-meaning and quiet-living ;this is corroborated by zero corrections during Impossible Spell Card day 1 .
^^^^ http://www.miyasuke.net/flash/yuyugohan.html  " 西行寺幽々子の強奪!!隣の晩御飯 " ->>>
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( Possibilities of ENGrish ) ^^^^ .

ElGreko

  • 私だ。エルグレコ。
  • 南無三
SC = Spell Card
LW = Last Word

There is a guard break. Blocking too much will eventually break it, but the one in this game is an especially tough guard. Unless it's a really tight blockstring or SCs, don't expect it too break. And not to mention the pushback of the barrier guard.
It's something that I wish they'll nerf.
And blocking doesn't always make it harder for you to get the ball. In fact, you can use it to push away the opponent when the ball is behind you. Anyway, it all depends on how you use it.

Also, add some penalty to grazing. Really, I can just dash cancel up and down infinitely to graze through bullets and SC like Reimu's Barrier!
Maybe a graze limit can be a solution to that.
It's a bit unfair, when they finally managed to make the Story Mode SC a little bit more challenging than HM.

Thanks for the explanation.

For the blocking system, I just tested it right now in vs 2p, there is actually a "sort of" guard crush, but it works only under several different conditions. Maybe I made some mistakes but here is what I noticed:

? Only works for bullets (attacks made with B or C). You can block any physical attacks forever...
? Only activates after 11-13 bullets received (multiple-hit bullets still count as 1).
? You have to do all of this in a very short time, it doesn't stack for the match... If you wait a few seconds more, everything will be back to 0 and you won't break anything...

This system sucks. I have no other word for this.
There is even any single indicator of the "life bar" of that pseudo-guard...  You can only look if the enemy is flashing in red and pray that the next attack would guard break him... It's so random you can't build any strategy on it.
And it's moreover so hard to make that it's almost non-existent.

You don't even receive any penalty when your guard is crushed, you're stunned for 1 second, and you don't lose anything, your guard is immediately back and brand new, and it's like nothing happened.

I even first thought there was some chip damage on every attack to balance the use of the guard but it's not even the case, for regular attacks, you can block without receiving any damage.
So, basically, if you guard you're almost invincible. So if someone hits first and guards the rest of the match he has a lot of chance to win, great... I hope they will fix that.

Well, let's not be so harsh, it's only a demo, a lot of things will change, I still love the game, especially the ambiance and the artistic direction.



And for all the people talking about the potential other characters that will be added, I personally think that most of the characters will be from th13 and th14, since the cast of Shinkirou was mostly from th12 and th13.

So I'd bet on Seiga (with/or Yoshika), Kogasa, Sekibanki, Kagerou, or Seija. (or maybe Wakasagihime since there is no ground for this game)
I'm sure that there will be at least 2 of those in the game.
(For the rest, let's see if they'll add Shinkirou's cast in this game or if they'll do like in Hisoutensoku with the Hisouten characters.)

(Ps: For the th12 characters, I'm surprised they never put Murasa, she would be a good fighting game character. Since they copied a lot of movements from other fighting game in hisoutensoku (Sakuya-Dio, Okuu-Souther, etc...), I thought they would copy May (Guilty Gear) to make Murasa, lol.)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 08:31:36 AM by ElGreko »

Hawk

  • Babababa~
So I found out that not only can you combo into Kasen's LW (through her Spell Card) but you can also KILL your opponent without any CH whatsoever

Pretty interesting, but I'm guessing that the sheer power of spell card canceling will make 200% meter (160% power) spell cards incredibly rare in regular play.

Colticide

  • Awoo!~
  • *
So I'd bet on Seiga (with/or Yoshika), Kogasa, Sekibanki, Kagerou, or Seija. (or maybe Wakasagihime since there is no ground for this game)



(Ps: For the th12 characters, I'm surprised they never put Murasa, she would be a good fighting game character. Since they copied a lot of movements from other fighting game in hisoutensoku (Sakuya-Dio, Okuu-Souther, etc...), I thought they would copy May (Guilty Gear) to make Murasa, lol.)

All great choices, we need more of all of them! Also this might sound dumb but I don't think Wakasagihime can fly. In both the games you fight her in she's in the water attacking you. Unless there's a part in the mangs that says other wise, I'd say she doesn't get around much.

I was thinking the same thing, I mean its so easy considering their weapons!
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game2011

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All great choices, we need more of all of them! Also this might sound dumb but I don't think Wakasagihime can fly.
She's clearly above water when you fought her, so I'm sure she can fly.

Colticide

  • Awoo!~
  • *
She's clearly above water when you fought her, so I'm sure she can fly.

If you look at her sprite in game she has water ripples around her, she's half in water.
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Gpop

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Since the LW with 7 balls is supposed to be powerful, and getting 7 is not exactly easy especially in competitive play. And the LW at 4 balls is actually weaker than most spellcards.
I think that's quite fair, G.

Though I still don't really like all the SC to LW thing. Hope they won't make it too lean with the stun.
Another way they can do it is maybe to add another requirement to use the LW. Like one bar of meter for instance. So you cannot chain the two of them
Yeah but the video was mostly to show two things. First off, there are kill combos already (even though it'll probably never happen in a real match), and secondly, that you can land her LW this way. Kasen's LW is incredibly weak because you'll never land it in a real match against ANY player who knows what it does. The start up is slow, and it's blockable AND grazable. It doesn't even suck you in.

Pretty interesting, but I'm guessing that the sheer power of spell card canceling will make 200% meter (160% power) spell cards incredibly rare in regular play.
Actually, getting 200% meter isn't all that hard, I get it pretty frequently (or I just never use it that often.) It's getting a full bar of orbs to get that much damage out of the LW that's the problem.

Just a thought I had about Mima finally returning in this game and being the character behind the silhouette we see in the demo, aside from general appearance similarity there's also a fact people didn't notice, the silhouette appeared in front of the Hakurei Shrine, and in PC-98 canon it was always said that Mima haunted the area around the Hakurei Shrine. Secondly, and this is probably just a small detail but the purple orb that spawns infront of Reimu and turns into the mysterious figure seems similar to how Mima appeared in stage 5 of Story of Eastern Wonderland, and with purple orbs around her before the battle begun. Probably just me over-analyzing things but I can't help but think it makes sense she'd appear in this game, she'd also fit well in the setting. Urban Legends = ghost stories, and Mima is an vengeful spirit to begin with, so it makes sense why she'd cause an incident like this. Not saying it's fact, but just my theory/prediction for her being in the game!

Honestly... you might be right! I mean if you look closely, you can see a wand in ? ? ? hands. The fact she has legs kinda debuts this theory... however when you take in consideration Reimu, Marisa, Yuuka and Alice all got redesigns due to becoming older and other reasons, this would mean she might receive a redesing. Also as you said Mima is told to haunt the Hakurei Shrine and judging about Reimu's reactions when ? ? ? appeared it might be her. Also + points for the story being a great and i mean GREAT oppurtonity for the charming evil spirit to return!
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Not that I think it's Mima (I'd be... surprised if it was, to say the least), but Mima has legs in some official depictions already, as pointed out earlier.

FearNagae

  • Hisouten/soku Enthusiast
I find the character too short to be Mima, though I'd really love to have that surprise.  :D
But I don't see any magic wands or sorts...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 07:03:50 PM by FearNagae »

nyttyn

  • Drill baby drill!
If there's one thing we can all agree on, its this 'boss preview' has succeeded in generating a goodly amount of hype for ULiL.

The only thing I find strange is...well, why a final boss preview? Correct me if i'm wrong, but neither ZUN or TF have ever done so before - not even in HM, which didn't even have a story mode preview. Why the need to build up extra hype? Was HM just a total flop, and they're trying something new in a bid to bring back hype for ULiL? Seems really strange.

Razzi Zadhna

  • bye chagen
What

The Final Boss has always been in silhouette on the CD jewel cases for the games except for EoSD