Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87

[Aya Reiko]

1 and 3 are very important, 2 not so much so. ZUN can and has molded the plot around characters (how most of the SWR cast got involved, hisou as a whole, and even HM which was best about this had the mask of hope dropping into hell was basically an excuse for Koishi to make an appearance).

#1 isn't important either.  Nobody expected Ichirin in HM.

The sprites in HM look amazing and I was really surprised on how smooth they looked, but the amount of time that must have been put into those... uhg...
You think there might be a possibility of working with 3d models? Getting the models made is the hard part but after that all that's left is to create the animations which is a lot easier then with sprites. Guilty Gear Xrd recently came out and I thought those where sprites at first but are actually 3d models, think Tasofro might hit that route one day?

I wish they did for this game.  Check out some Crucis Fatal Fake vids and remember, that doujin game came out six years ago in 2008.  Why can't Tasofro at least match that in 2015?

[FearNagae]

3D (at least, on the level of Fatal Fake) is way easier to make than 2D (on the level of HM). But for some people, pixel art are just too beautiful to let go.

[Aya Reiko]

3D (at least, on the level of Fatal Fake) is way easier to make than 2D (on the level of HM). But for some people, pixel art are just too beautiful to let go.

I've heard something similar to that, particularly about Japanese devs.

I find it tends to be an albatross around the neck.  To be hung up on nostalgia never to realize their own potential.

[Maple]

Could people do a workaround?
If 3d is easier (1 model and then animations instead of various independent sprites), why not using filters to do a faux 2d? I know of cell shading, but what about making things intentionally pixel-y? This guy used filters (in ActionScript) to replicate 16-bit games. The source says something about altering the pixel size (this aplies to making pixelated images, not 16-bit ones).

The perfect crime, without victims. Sans old computers.

[FearNagae]

Could people do a workaround?
If 3d is easier (1 model and then animations instead of various independent sprites), why not using filters to do a faux 2d? I know of cell shading, but what about making things intentionally pixel-y? This guy used filters (in ActionScript) to replicate 16-bit games. The source says something about altering the pixel size (this aplies to making pixelated images, not 16-bit ones).

The perfect crime, without victims. Sans old computers.

Getting an image look pixelated is not the same as pixel art  !

It's an artist thingy, I also get very hyped from pixel arts. 

[ElGreko]

2D sprites are drawings, that's a different form of art than 3D modelling. I personally don't really like that much 3D renders and modelling, because it's much more "mathematical" than artistic.  (The fact that it is "easier" to create makes it less impressive too.) Some are really very nice, but you don't find that "little thing" you have with drawings, especially for fighting games.
So I really enjoy that some 2D games are still made, because they're the most enjoyable to watch, in my humble opinion.
And talking about artistic stuff, I really love the artistic direction of this new game, the interface, the musics, the artworks, etc...


By the way, regarding the specials attacks you do when you hold B or C, there are some little things (some are a little bit silly) I keep wondering about for each character:

Reimu:
[C] Gap attack throwing sotobas. (throws 1 if 1 orb, and then throws several ones when you get more)

I know she can manipulate boundaries and uses kekkais (kinda like Yukari), but opening an actual dimensional gap and throwing objects like Yukari does, it's rather surprising for a human (I mean, Yukari is a youkai (and one of the strongest known youkai, if not the strongest)).

? My question is: did she learn how to use Yukari's attacks (maybe she taught her?), or is it actually Yukari who intervenes in the fight by opening a gap to attack (as a helper) ?

Marisa:
[C] Summon-attack of random object with different effects.

I know the attacks are related to the folklore and myths (like her last word that I really love so much, it's awesome), so everything makes sense, but I just wonder how does she summon the objects?
? Making objects come from nowhere is Yukari's speciality, but what is the kind of power Marisa uses for this trick? I know it's stupid, but I'm still curious.

Kasen:
[Ｂ] Energy ball (rainbow colors) thrown. (the direction key used when releasing the button can change the direction and the range of the attack)

More technical question: The energy ball stays at the same place during all the match when you throw one, the new one will replace the older each time you use this attack, but the will still be an energy ball in the game, and I can't find what it does.
Once you throw it, if it hits the opponent, it deals damage, and if he doesn't, it stays like a decoration without hurting or draining energy. I tried to test the reaction of the characters by looking their life, spirit, or even the reaction of the occult ball, but I didn't notice anything.
? Does anyone knows what it does? Or maybe it actually doesn't do anything yet because it's still a trial and the additional effect will be added later?

[Polaris]

If you use Kasen's eagle as a projectile, it'll aim towards the rainbow thingy and use it as a pivot to home in towards the opponent.

[ElGreko]

Oh, of course! I wonder how I didn't notice it myself, I already noticed that Kanda went sometimes in other directions with some kind of ricochet but forgot to search why. Thanks for the info, Polaris.
                                                                ,Thank you!

[Fumi]

3D (at least, on the level of Fatal Fake) is way easier to make than 2D (on the level of HM). But for some people, pixel art are just too beautiful to let go.

Yeah, there is a certain charm to sprites and pixels. HM was gorgeous because of the sprite work. Personally I think Touhou looks better with 2D because it's something we were already used (like in Danmaku games) going 3D would be weird. But personally I always preffer sprites, like in Pok?mon, I kinda miss even the BW days with animated sprites instead of 3D models which at times look awful.

? My question is: did she learn how to use Yukari's attacks (maybe she taught her?), or is it actually Yukari who intervenes in the fight by opening a gap to attack (as a helper) ?

She is not using Yukari's power in any way. She just created rumors about "A shrine maiden who can summon stuff from portals", people began talking about that and Reimu gained these powers from people's rumors.

I know the attacks are related to the folklore and myths (like her last word that I really love so much, it's awesome), so everything makes sense, but I just wonder how does she summon the objects?
? Making objects come from nowhere is Yukari's speciality, but what is the kind of power Marisa uses for this trick? I know it's stupid, but I'm still curious.

Just like Reimu, Marisa began spreading rumors about "A witch who can call school myths" so taking into account the plot Marisa is using the power she herself created using people's rumors.

[Polaris]

More accurately, the rumors (urban legends) already existed--Reimu and co. simply adopted them in order to control them and make sure they didn't cause any trouble. Story here.

[game2011]

Safe bet is only 8 new characters.

Isn't that too low?  10.5 has 15 characters, so I expect more than 13.5.

[Phasm]

Isn't that too low?  10.5 has 15 characters, so I expect more than 13.5.

If ULIL is to HM as SWR is to IAMP then safe bet there are more characters. Kinda sad that the demo only has Reimu, Marisa and Kasen.

[Colticide]

If ULIL is to HM as SWR is to IAMP then safe bet there are more characters. Kinda sad that the demo only has Reimu, Marisa and Kasen.

ULiL was said to be a smaller project compared to HM, if I'm remembering right HM had a longer development time.

[Phasm]

ULiL was said to be a smaller project compared to HM, if I'm remembering right HM had a longer development time.

Making the engine itself must?ve been a nightmare... i actually like Hopeless Masquerade don't take it the wrong way. Since the engine was already made they just modified it, remove the popularity system and added the occult ball system. So since the engine is already made, Zun will probably add more characters than in HM. How many months will we wait until it's released?

[Kilgamayan]

Kinda sad that the demo only has Reimu, Marisa and Kasen.

SWR demo was Reimu/Marisa/Alice/Aya, HM demo was Reimu/Marisa/Ichirin. This is par for the course.

[Suspicious person]

SWR demo was Reimu/Marisa/Alice/Aya, HM demo was Reimu/Marisa/Ichirin. This is par for the course.

But Kasen have only 1 spell card for the demo, she is not be a "complete" character in the demo. How things are going to turn out at the release of the full version? I hope nobody'll end Kokoro'ed or have Koishi's PC [redacted] ability. (It's good that there's no set date for the release, hope that they'll take their time and make this into a great game)

About the roster, I think it's possible that we'll get less moves but more characters

(And about the new character... I see a pointy hat, a cape, a staff, it's obviously Gandalf chan)

[Maple]

Ignoring the HM cast, which characters have a moderate/high chance to become playable as per plot requirements?

Personally i'd hype for Seija. Her personality is comedy gold and ability would make for a good playstyle. Now she hasn't much reason to enter the scene and do things in this incident in particular, aside of generic desire to opposing things. Has she any chance?

[Fumi]

Isn't that too low?  10.5 has 15 characters, so I expect more than 13.5.

Reminder that SWR recycled the cast from IaMP and only added Aya, Reisen, Komachi, Iku and Tenshi

If ULiL were to follow this pattern then that would make it the HM cast plus Kasen and four other characters which I personally do not want, however if 10 characters just make it to ULil that would make Reimu, Marisa and Kasen plus 7 new characters which is better than 4.

[Phasm]

Well since one of the occult effects has a reference to the Moon Capital... there is a chance either Kaguya, Eirin or Reisen as well as maybe Mokou appear as playable characters. But maybe Yorihime as well.

[nyttyn]

Playable Yorihime is probably never going to happen, for the same reason playable Flandre is never going to happen - they just don't hold back, and the former doesn't even play by the spell card rules.

[ElGreko]

More accurately, the rumors (urban legends) already existed--Reimu and co. simply adopted them in order to control them and make sure they didn't cause any trouble. Story here.

Oh I see, so the explication to those weird things is on the story, thanks for the link!

Playable Yorihime is probably never going to happen, for the same reason playable Flandre is never going to happen - they just don't hold back, and the former doesn't even play by the spell card rules.

Yes, ZUN also said he made her OP on purpose, so "balancing" her for a fighting game would be strange...

For the people talking about Seiga and Mokou, I thought the same, they actually could be added in the game and they could have some very interesting exploitable techniques. It would be pretty cool.


Oh and for all the people who were speculating a few days ago about the new secret character, I don't know if someone already extracted the sprites but I was bored and made this the other day.
I edited a little bit to make the outline of the silhouette shape the clearest as possible.

[Tengukami]

Looks like the kobito with a cape on to me.

[Starxsword]

Personally i'd hype for Seija. Her personality is comedy gold and ability would make for a good playstyle. Now she hasn't much reason to enter the scene and do things in this incident in particular, aside of generic desire to opposing things. Has she any chance?

She's a stage 5 boss, so I would say the chances are pretty good. But then again Orin and Shou didn't make it...

Yes, ZUN also said he made her OP on purpose, so "balancing" her for a fighting game would be strange...

Fighting games are not the same as the main game shooters. But I don't see any story reason why Yorihime or Toyohime would get involved.
Also, What do you mean by "balancing" would be strange? It is the same reason why Cirno can beat Utsuho in the fighting games.

I'm hoping Kaguya can make it. I think she is the only stage 6 boss, outside of Kanako to not be in a fighting game.

[Phasm]

Oh I see, so the explication to those weird things is on the story, thanks for the link!
Yes, ZUN also said he made her OP on purpose, so "balancing" her for a fighting game would be strange...

For the people talking about Seiga and Mokou, I thought the same, they actually could be added in the game and they could have some very interesting exploitable techniques. It would be pretty cool.


Oh and for all the people who were speculating a few days ago about the new secret character, I don't know if someone already extracted the sprites but I was bored and made this the other day.
I edited a little bit to make the outline of the silhouette shape the clearest as possible.

?

It's safe to say that has the ability to manipulate and control Urban Legends. She seems to have a wand on her hands she has a cape similar to Sekibanki... by the way... what exactly tells us is the final boss? Maybe she is the 3rd stage boss for this game. Also, this is the first time i participate in the waiting of a Touhou fighting game. Do Zun and Twilight Frontier update the demo's to give it a little more content?

[Suspicious person]

I think the characters who might appear in this game are going to be those who are closer and accessible to the humans. I mean, it's not like the humans would pay attention to rumors about something or someone irrelevant to their daily life (ie: Flandre, Yuyuko, Shiki eiki, and... you get the idea), but pay attention to the rumors about people that they might run into frequently instead, and the characters titles should show what these regular humans talks about the characters (ie: Kasen: the hermit who listen to wishes).

With that said, here's a little speculation of mine regarding characters who might have a chance in getting in along with some pseudo title I made up (it should be okay if I am wrong, right? :derp:):
-Reisen (and rumors about a rabbit that sells medicine/ causes madness or something)
-Koishi (and rumors about an imaginary friend or something)
-Kokoro (and rumors about a noh performer or something)

And there should also be characters who'll try to exploit the rumors:
-Mamizou (actually, I'd like to see a human Mamizou as another character)
-Seija (c'mon, you can shove her up in any story and it'll still be legit
-Nitori (uh, she did use rumors in a mundane fashion in FS)

And characters who fit the criteria but have slim chances of getting in (+HM characters)
-Sekibanki
-Keine
-Alice
-Ran

Anyway, these are just random speculations. Gotta wait for the full thing to see. Also is it just me or time slow down whenever a Touhou game is announced?

[Koog]

I started to think of Sekibanki...

[Fumi]

Well since one of the occult effects has a reference to the Moon Capital... there is a chance either Kaguya, Eirin or Reisen as well as maybe Mokou appear as playable characters. But maybe Yorihime as well.

I don't see it happening, Shou's pagoda was an item in HM yet she didn't showed up. The occult ball just references to many mysterious places. Hmm, actually that sounds like a good idea, could this be a hint of what characters to appear? How many effects are?

I started to think of Sekibanki...

Nah, Sekibanki's cape around the neck area isn't that big, besides this character has a hat. She's probably a new character altogether,if we read the story's mode script Reimu does not notices this mysterious character, only feels their presence as something dark.

I think the characters that will make it are those that either plan to use the occult ball/urban legends to gain power or use the urban legends to make the village stay safe.

Whose fit that criteria?
-Evil intentions
Maybe Remilia
Nitori
Orin
Nue
Seiga
Mamizou?
Seija

-Good intentions
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Akyuu
Kosuzu
Keine
Mamizou?
Kokoro?
Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru

I was talking with a friend and we came up with the idea of playble Hatate, I know it sounds weird but it could be as Aya appeared in SWR and acted like a reporter. Hatate could use this chance to make a good article and win over Aya's newspaper by getting involved.

This is the roster I would like to see, but idk if it would be possible

Everyone from HM
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Kosuzu
Seiga
Keine/Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru
Hatate
Nue
new character

[Phasm]

I don't see it happening, Shou's pagoda was an item in HM yet she didn't showed up. The occult ball just references to many mysterious places. Hmm, actually that sounds like a good idea, could this be a hint of what characters to appear? How many effects are?

Nah, Sekibanki's cape around the neck area isn't that big, besides this character has a hat. She's probably a new character altogether,if we read the story's mode script Reimu does not notices this mysterious character, only feels their presence as something dark.

I think the characters that will make it are those that either plan to use the occult ball/urban legends to gain power or use the urban legends to make the village stay safe.

Whose fit that criteria?
-Evil intentions
Maybe Remilia
Nitori
Orin
Nue
Seiga
Mamizou?
Seija

-Good intentions
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Akyuu
Kosuzu
Keine
Mamizou?
Kokoro?
Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru

I was talking with a friend and we came up with the idea of playble Hatate, I know it sounds weird but it could be as Aya appeared in SWR and acted like a reporter. Hatate could use this chance to make a good article and win over Aya's newspaper by getting involved.

This is the roster I would like to see, but idk if it would be possible

Everyone from HM
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Kosuzu
Seiga
Keine/Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru
Hatate
Nue
new character

Also there is also a chance that has a servant like Remilia has Sakuya, Yuyuko has Youmu, Kaguya has Eirin which has Reisen and so on and so forth.

[Gpop]

I think the best example would be like in SWR it had Iku as a new character as well as the pre-boss before Tenshi.

[Phasm]

Before its first announcement with Twilight Frontier, there were only English words in its title. An "urban legend" refers to a modern folklore story, usually false, but believed by many regardless. "Limbo" in Catholic theology is an idea that there exists a separate, less "damning" afterlife for those who died in the friendship of God but still in original sin because Jesus had not made their entrance into heaven possible yet. The concept is controversial and is not an official doctrine of Catholicism. The word itself can also be more generally used to mean up-in-the-air or unfinished, as in the phrase "in limbo."

The inspiration for the name of the game: This could hint that the final boss might be another religionist we have never heard about.