Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87

[monhan]

Personally, if there's anyone I want to see from DDC it'd be Kagerou, even if I can't really think of anything that could tie her into the plot. And if she has even a single reference to KoF13 Iori I'd main the shit outta her.

Unfortunately, the Iori Laugh is taken by Miko already

[Savory]

Re: roster change, a topic from a few pages ago.
The thing about Meiling in IaMP is she was a special case, from a time when the Touhou canon was still being established. She was not planned for by ZUN;  Tasofro built her out of their own motivation, with little oversight by ZUN.

That seems rather odd, considering Meiling is one character who'd fit a fighting game scene the most.

Tasofro said you should treat her (inclusion and game design) in the game as basically non-canon; I think all ZUN did was writing her dialogue and skill names.

Does this explain her story in Hisoutensoku then?

[Starxsword]

That seems rather odd, considering Meiling is one character who'd fit a fighting game scene the most.

I think it is mainly because she isn't a stage 4+ boss. Outside of Cirno's inclusion in Hisoutensoku, all the fighting game characters have been stage 4+. Alice isn't in PCB, but she's EX in Mystic Square.

[Razzi Zadhna]

Ichirin is stage 3, but yeah a lot of the playable fighting games characters are pulled from stage 4 to Extra. It makes sense however: those characters tend to be a lot more important, and more likely to get involved in future incidents where stage 1-3 characters almost always are just random girls Reimu and Marisa beat the shit out of while trying to find the real culprits for each incident  :V

[Tiamat]

Not really sure what there is to even "not treat as canon" in the first place for Meiling in IamP given that she doesn't have a story mode.  At least what little storyline elements of her exist (the win quotes and skill names) were written by ZUN, though.

That seems rather odd, considering Meiling is one character who'd fit a fighting game scene the most.

Does this explain her story in Hisoutensoku then?

Meiling's a gate keeper.  She doesn't seem to get out very much.  ....like, ever, come to think about it.

Hisoutensoku's plot was one of the only ways Meiling could have a plot that wouldn't entail her leaving the grounds, really.

[Razzi Zadhna]

Sakuya and Youmu have basically zero reason to leave their respective homes (especially since the SDM becomes a messy hellhole without Sakuya dedicating 72 hours a day to cleaning it) but they still keep showing up as playable.

[Starxsword]

Sakuya and Youmu have basically zero reason to leave their respective homes (especially since the SDM becomes a messy hellhole without Sakuya dedicating 72 hours a day to cleaning it) but they still keep showing up as playable.

That seems like an exaggeration to me. Sakuya wanders around often enough doing miscellaneous tasks. You see her accompanying Remilia and by herself more than once in the mangas.
The same deal is true for Youmu. You also see her wander around often enough. By this I am not talking about just during the fighting games, but the mangas and other games.

[Tengukami]

Yeah, I think what Tiamat is getting at isn't who has or has not a reason to go anywhere, but who actually has, like, gone places and done things in canon.

[Gpop]

The other big difference is that, when compared to Sakuya and Youmu, Meiling's rank in the SDM is much lower than them. Sakuya and Youmu both act as the mistress's right hand lady, so if there's any problem they'd be the first to be sent out to figure out the problem.

[Phasm]

The other big difference is that, when compared to Sakuya and Youmu, Meiling's rank in the SDM is much lower than them. Sakuya and Youmu both act as the mistress's right hand lady, so if there's any problem they'd be the first to be sent out to figure out the problem.

Well in that case then shoudn't Ran for example or Reisen or Eirin do the same?

[Razzi Zadhna]

ZUN just likes trolling us by making only Sanae, Sakuya, or Youmu playable alongside the main two. Still waiting on playable Shou or Futo, ZUN. They're stage 5 boss lackeys to some higher-stage boss too, ya know.

(I know it would never happen but damn it'd be awesome to have a STG 2hu game with Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Sanae, Youmu, Reisen, Shou, and Futo playable. I mean it would never happen because that's a fuckload of portraits to draw and a fuckload of dialogue to write, but damn it would amazing. Swap out Shou and Futo for Byakuren and Miko if you wish.)

[Tengukami]

I would welcome playable Futo in a shooter, in addition to Eirin and Sukuna. Especially Eirin. I think her shot types would be crazy, bacteria and pill bullets everywhere, some forward-focusing bomb from a giant arrow (?). With Marisa B from UFO's shot pattern. No idea why on that last one.

[aUsernameIsFineToo]

ZUN just likes trolling us by making only Sanae, Sakuya, or Youmu playable alongside the main two. Still waiting on playable Shou or Futo, ZUN. They're stage 5 boss lackeys to some higher-stage boss too, ya know.

(I know it would never happen but damn it'd be awesome to have a STG 2hu game with Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Sanae, Youmu, Reisen, Shou, and Futo playable. I mean it would never happen because that's a fuckload of portraits to draw and a fuckload of dialogue to write, but damn it would amazing. Swap out Shou and Futo for Byakuren and Miko if you wish.)

There's always the next "Phantasmagoria of ??"...

[Tiamat]

Sakuya and Youmu go out in the canon all the time, not just in the shooter games but in the print works, too.  Sometimes of their own accord and sometimes because they were ordered to.

Meiling, when I think about it, has NEVER left the SDM in any print work or game.  My memory could be off but I can't think of a single case in the canon where she was not on SDM grounds, even as a cameo.

Ran is supposed to only act on Yukari's orders, which possibly limits what actions she can take. Of course, it's explicitly pointed out that she sometimes goes out on her own anyways (both in Perfect Cherry Blossom and BAiJR) but in general it's rare to see her out and about (but not unheard of) yet even rarer for her to take significant action on her own initiative (again, because she's not allowed to, unlike Sakuya and Youmu who appear to have a LOT of freedom).  It wouldn't be impossible for Ran though.

It's just Meiling who, again, I can't recall ever being off the SDM grounds in any official source.  I'm not saying she can't, but... there isn't any proof that she either can or will, either, what with her... well, never actually being seen off of them.

[Razzi Zadhna]

I would welcome playable Futo in a shooter, in addition to Eirin and Sukuna. Especially Eirin. I think her shot types would be crazy, bacteria and pill bullets everywhere, some forward-focusing bomb from a giant arrow (?). With Marisa B from UFO's shot pattern. No idea why on that last one.

I thought about Sukuna and Eirin, but the playable characters besides Marisa and Reimu are almost always stage 5 bosses: Sanae, Sakuya, and Youmu. That's why I picked Reisen, Futo, and Shou for my "Every Goddamn 2hu Ever^TM" cast.

There's always the next "Phantasmagoria of ??"...

Yeah, but I wanna see all these different characters interact with whatever new gaggle of girls ZUN comes up with.

[shoufanboyforlife]Also it would give Shou some popularity which she desperately needs [/shoufanboyforlife]

[Psyduckxoxo]

great.... iam guessing that we have to wait for
a few more years before a good fighting game is
released. so diaspointed... sigh

Is anyone know if TF have other projects in the
works like are they planning to make other fighting
games with a different system than HM or is this all
we get until the next one in a few years?

[DTM]

great.... iam guessing that we have to wait for
a few more years before a good fighting game is
released. so diaspointed... sigh

Is anyone know if TF have other projects in the
works like are they planning to make other fighting
games with a different system than HM or is this all
we get until the next one in a few years?

I can't believe you got early access to the game!  You think you can provide some gameplay footage for us?

[Clarste]

ZUN just likes trolling us by making only Sanae, Sakuya, or Youmu playable alongside the main two. Still waiting on playable Shou or Futo, ZUN. They're stage 5 boss lackeys to some higher-stage boss too, ya know.

The important thing isn't that they're lackeys, it's that they're part human. Youkai cause incidents, humans resolve them. I would never expect Shou or Orin or anyone full youkai to be playable alongside the main two in an ordinary shooting game. With their own side games like Aya or Seija, sure, maybe.

For reference, the youkai partners in IN weren't playable on their own, story wise. They just tagged along with their pet humans.

[Gpop]

Well in that case then shoudn't Ran for example or Reisen or Eirin do the same?

Reisen did appear in SWR though. Ran, however, isn't as free to act on her own compared to Youmu or Sakuya.

[Psyduckxoxo]

iam just asking a question there is no need to be rude i didnt like the style of HM and i just wanted to know if there was going to be something more `traditional' in planning because i dont keep up with TF often....

nevermind this was a mistake to ask, i see how things are here...

[DTM]

iam just asking a question there is no need to be rude i didnt like the style of HM and i just wanted to know if there was going to be something more `traditional' in planning because i dont keep up with TF often....

nevermind this was a mistake to ask, i see how things are here...

I'm sorry for being rude (I'm just tired of people making judgements on a game that has yet to be released).  To answer your question, I don't think TF has anything traditional in the works for the near future.

[Drake]

You didn't "just" ask a question. You said, and I literally quote:

iam guessing that we have to wait for
a few more years before a good fighting game is
released. so diaspointed...

In other words, you've made up your mind before the game's been released. Not "I don't see myself liking this if it's the same style as HM", but unequivocally "I guess this game is bad then". You don't get to type up things like this and then turn around and say other people are being rude or that "we" are just going to blindly praise TF in whatever they do just because you get criticized.

[Psyduckxoxo]

geez iam sorry i dont like air combat type fighting games i didnt know it was
forbidden here to feel that way but apparently it is. this place got really unfriendly.
just because i dont think the style of HM was good for me you jump down my throat
 and make a big deal out of my opinion being different from your own? what
happened to this place??? this is very elitist iam sorry i have a different opinion than
you people but you need to calm down and accept other people sometimes dont like
the things you like instead of attacking them!!!

coming here to ask about TF was a mistake. this place has become major
unfriendly... forget it. i never said anything, i never had a different opinion from
you, i never asked any simple question. now go ahead and nitpick every word
in my post and turn it into something personal or make assumptions about it...
thats apparently what this place has become.

just wonderful... just wonderful...

[Drake]

Chill dude, you're still totally welcome here. I'm not "attacking" you by criticizing your post. I didn't like HM either and I don't have super high expectations for ULiL, so you'd be mistaken in thinking your opinion differs from mine at all. Even if it didn't, having an opinion isn't wrong. I didn't post because you have a different opinion, but because you presented it by saying it would be bad when all we have is "it's the HM engine" and a single screenshot, rather than just saying that you didn't like HM. Regardless, don't think that my posts represent the whole forum. That's silly, especially since this thread is full of people who disagree pretty vehemently.

To answer your question, it doesn't make much sense for them to be working on several games at once. That being said, we can't know what they're planning to do years down the road, either. This project might be of smaller scale than HM, and they might put out new works pretty soon. I don't see them making yet another completely new fighting game immediately after this, though.
Just look at the pattern of their previous major releases:

Immaterial and Missing Power (2004)
Super Marisa Land (2005)
Megamari (2006)
Patchucon (2007)
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody (2008)
Touhou Hisoutensoku (2009)
New Super Marisa Land (2010)
DynaMarisa 3D (2011)
Grief Syndrome (2011)
Satori's Emotional Education (2012)
Hopeless Masquerade (2013)
Shoot Shoot にとり (2014)

[Aba Matindesu!]

There's always the next "Phantasmagoria of ??"...

Which, if ZUN sticks to 3 + 6n, will hopefully be the next game.

(And I'm really itching for a new, updated Phantasmagoria.)

[Hatateru]

Is it wrong that I'm more hyped for the story and new character(s) than the game itself?

I've never ever had any complaints with the games, but somehow getting new instalments and world building simply tickles me pink~

[Espadas]

Read through the entire thread in one swoop and...... uh, guys? What's up with the angry posts? Shouldn't we simply be HAPPY that we are getting a new game?
I understand that to some being a sequel to HM might sound like bad news but at least wait until you TRY it before judging!

No one can know beforehand how a sequel will be compared to the original. 2 opposite examples:

Star Wars's first trilogy vs second trilogy (despite the enormous hype, and the fact that i LIKE the second trilogy, i freely admit that some parts are worse than the original)
Street Fighter 1 vs Street Fighter 2 (need to comment?  :V)

Is it wrong that I'm more hyped for the story and new character(s) than the game itself?
I've never ever had any complaints with the games, but somehow getting new instalments and world building simply tickles me pink~

While i'm more equal part interested in the story/character and the gameplay you are right. Some fights in the shooters (Yuyuko, Utsuho, Byakuren etc..) get a big boost in awesomeness just because of the background story or their characterization. Heck, Utsuho's fight lives off the fact that you are basically in Hell and avoiding THERMONUCLEAR NUKES from a crazed crow 

[Fastest Thing Alive]

Some fights in the shooters (Yuyuko, Utsuho, Byakuren etc..) get a big boost in awesomeness just because of the background story or their characterization. Heck, Utsuho's fight lives off the fact that you are basically in Hell and avoiding THERMONUCLEAR NUKES from a crazed crow 

And the music. The music always helps. I wonder if Reimu and Marisa (and any other returning characters) will keep their HM themes or get new ones.

[SacredWind]

Wow, this thread got angrily elitist in a hurry... -_-

Seriously guys, lighten up. This place is starting to look pretty bad....

[Tengukami]

just wonderful... just wonderful...

Wow, this thread got angrily elitist in a hurry... -_-

For some reason we need to have this conversation with the release of every game, sometimes multiple times per thread, but here it is again: Everyone is indeed allowed to have their own opinion, and that includes challenging the opinions of others. That's how freedom of speech works. Further, there is a world of difference between criticism and baseless, entitled whining, and the latter is a lot more likely to draw strong opinions from others than the former. Literally no one is saying that everyone is obligated to be super hyped about this game and can say nothing negative about it. You'll notice that people who made criticisms about what they found wrong about HM were absolutely allowed to express themselves without worry.

I mean sorry you were expecting your opinion to go unchallenged, but that's not a very realistic expectation to have in the first place. Calling people who disagree with you "elitist" isn't helping, either.