Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Bunbunmaru News~ => Front Page Headlines => Topic started by: cuc on December 23, 2014, 07:10:02 AM

Title: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 23, 2014, 07:10:02 AM
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/141223_zpsbda9364b.png)

Touhou 14.5 has been properly revealed. It is another collaboration between Team Shanghai Alice and Twilight Frontier. A demo version of the game will be released at Twilight Frontier's booth シ-29a at Comiket 87 (Dec 29). The demo disc will cost 100 yen.

(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/th145logo_zps5bfe5ee9.jpg)


The game's title is: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. It will be a sequel to 2013's Touhou Shinkirou ~ Hopeless Masquerade.

The main title is probably pronounced "Touhou Shinhiroku". It is a pun on 神秘 "mysterious; occult", with the kanji 深 "deep" replacing the kanji 神 "divine; mystical", leaving the kanji 秘 "secret; hidden". Thus the title can be understood as "Oriental Record of Deep Mysteries" or "Oriental Record of Deep Secrets".

Official site:
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou145/index.html
(Unfortunately, due to some sort of IP blocking mechanism, you may need to access the site via a proxy if you are from China, Korea or Southeast Asia.)

Highlights of system requirements are:
- A multicore CPU 2GHz or above;
- A display device supporting the 1280x720 resolution;
- 200MB of hard drive space.

UPDATE 1:
A screenshot from the official blog (http://tasofro.net/diary/view/108) shows a fight in front of Kourindou:
(http://i.imgur.com/EDaVqyd.jpg)
The building to the left was not there in Kourindou's previous appearances. Has Rinnosuke gotten rich or something?

The jewels under the time countdown should be the "Occult Balls" mentioned in the Digi Game Expo flyer. Some say the time clock somewhat resembles the Dragon Radar, in keeping with the Dragon Ball reference.

The wooden strips shooting out of the gap are sotoba (http://haikutopics.blogspot.jp/2006/04/grave-marker-sotoba.html), Japanese grave markers. Wasn't this used to be Yukari's attack in SWR?

The demo version will feature some characters and the beginning of the Story Mode.

UPDATE 2:
Research: some sources of Rinnosuke's posters.
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3485574995

UDPATE 3: Release day
The poster:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/twittercomkukul_canstatus549373736176988160_zps9e43bd50.jpg)

The disc:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/twittercomhougastatus549388927853797376_zps6849b018.jpg)

UPDATE 4:
Controls:
Z - Melee; X - Shoot; C - Special; A - Spell; S - Flight.


Movement system comparison by Ninniku (https://twitter.com/ninnniku_), an artist and top-ranking Suwako player, with translation by monhan (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1153438.html#msg1153438):
Read from Left to Right

HM:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/con1_zps88c55dfd.jpg)
You can move upward and downward while dashing
The dash is the same, whether you're in the upper, middle, or lower part
You can maintain the same latitude while dashing.
You can still "jump" up and down even if you're in the upper or lower part

ULiL:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/con2_zpsdd6a67f3.jpg)
You cannot move upward and downward while dashing, instead pressing them will make you jump
The dash will be different depending on your latitude. You also cannot jump unless you're in the middle
Dashing will force you towards the middle. And since you cannot jump, it can't be braked(you can't stop the fall to the middle line).
Unless you use the flight button, jumping in the upper or lower part is not possible. But since the dash is not limited, you can make a zig-zag movement.


New game systems:
Each character has an Occult Special, released when possessing at least one Occult Ball by holding Special button.

There is a new "Fast-talk Declaration" system, which costs one Spell Gauge to interrupt the current action and declare your spell card, by pressing Spell button rapidly twice.

Kai Last Word: The "kai" here can be translated as "strange", "weird", "bizarre", "abnormal", etc.

Mystery Spot: similar to weather, these are the effects caused by the Occult Ball.
1. The Pyramids: Both side's Occult Specials are at maximum power.
2. Stonehenge: The playfield becomes gradually narrower.
3. Babel Tower: When touching the Occult Ball, the Ball can be used to attack the opponent
4. Yomotsu Hirasaka: Reduces stamina the closer one is to the stage center; all damage incurred during the effect period disappears when it ends
5. Nazca Ground Painting: Each time one touches the Occult Ball, one's stamina and Spell Gauge will be restored.
6. Hell Valley [a volcanic scenic spot in Hokkaido]: Turns the bottom of the screen into a damage zone; characters are harder to see.
7. Lunar Capital: Reduces bullet speed (some are not affected)

Reimu
神秘!結界の巫女
Mystery! The Shrine Maiden of Kekkai (Boundaries)

Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Gap Woman"
Gap woman is an urban legend already in existence in Edo era, which Yukari is partially based on, about a woman in red watching people through a gap.

Occult Special: "Gap of the Great Hakurei Boundary"

Kai Last Word: *There's a shrine maiden in the gap!*


Marisa
恐怖!学校の魔法使い
Horror! The School Magician

Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Seven Mysteries of the School"

Occult Special: True Horrors of the School (rotates through different objects)

Kai Last Word: *So great! Ms. Hanako of the Toilet!*


Kasen
脅威!願いを訊く仙人
Menance! The Hermit Who Listens to Wishes

Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Monkey's Paw"

4 or 6 + Special: 彭祖 Houso
Houso is Kasen's tiger, seen in WaHH, named after Peng Zu, a famous figure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_Zu) known for having lived 800 years in Chinese traditions.

8 + Special: 竿打 Kanda
Kanda is one of Kasen's eagles seen in WaHH. The name means "beaten by a bamboo stick", as he is named after a hermit in Japanese legend who flew too low and got beaten by children with a bamboo stick.

2 + Special: 務光 Mukou
Mukou is Kasen's Raijuu (thunder beast), adopted in WaHH. Named after Wuguang, an ancient sage mentioned in Zhuang Zi, who would rather drown himself than accept the throne of China.

As you can see, Kasen's pets are all named after figures in Taoist hermit lore.

Occult Special: "Inescapable Monkey's Paw" (keep pressing the button to extend the arm, can be controlled with up and down buttons)

Spell Card: Dragon Sign "Dragon's Growl"

Kai Last Word: *Monkey's Paw! Crush the enemy!*
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. demo to be released at Comiket 87
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on December 23, 2014, 07:49:46 AM
Excuse me whilst I update the ULiL page @ the wiki~~
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. demo to be released at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 23, 2014, 08:36:47 AM
Translation of the story:

Quote
Strange rumors are circulating the Human Village.

 "A dog with a human's face was rummaging the compost pile."
"Somebody saw an old woman selling humans' feet."

These pointless rumors have exploded, and driven the children into fear.
Unlike the youkai whose natural purpose is to attack humans, these rumors are both unsettling and impossible to discern the truths underneath.
Since there were no real victims, the adults have come to think of them as merely children's silly talks.

Of course, the girls are not afraid.
They know these to be the outside world's "urban legends" (made-up stories).

Urban legends have an interesting property.
As the circulating rumors change, the anomalies will change correspondingly.

Reimu and company have assumed the rumors that fit them, and treat the anomalies as their playthings.
As long as one can control the rumors without being afraid, the manifested anomalies can be rendered harmless.
More than that, they can be turned into powers of one's own.
The girls thought of controlling the urban legends by themselves as a necessary measure for keeping people from harm.

This had indeed been true. Until one night...

According to internet spoilers, the backstory to this game will be told in this month's Touhou Ibarakasen ~ Wild and Horned Hermit. Chapter 26.

Say hello to Mr. Manfaced Dog! I'd never thought the sad face of a middle manager going through midlife crisis would appear in Gensokyo.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/1419238200619_zps14ba7f61.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. demo to be released at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 23, 2014, 08:52:17 AM
And here's the speculation: Twilight Frontier's homepage image now shows the logo over Hakurei Shrine. This is the exactly same model as the one used in Hopeless Masquerade.

They are releasing a demo version first, indicating this to be a large-scale project, rather than say, a sidescroller. They've never sold demo discs separately for their sidescrollers.

In summary, this game will probably be a new fighting game, using the engine of assets of Hopeless Masquerade. The gameplay however will differ significantly from the relative failure of HM. To what degree remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. demo to be released at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on December 23, 2014, 09:41:35 AM
Every one is getting involved in this. Twilight Frontier, the girl behind Forbidden Scrollery for the promotional poster, WaHH having the backstory, all kinds of stuff.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. demo to be released at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 23, 2014, 12:32:10 PM
Our diligent Touhou news sources in Japan have been listening to D.N.A.'s Nae Radio (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/naeradi-dna) stream, which is still ongoing at the moment.

The stream confirmed (http://blog.livedoor.jp/tohomemory/archives/41958907.html) one thing:

ULiL will be a sequel to HM, rather than an expansion pack.

According to D.N.A., ZUN said (https://twitter.com/quuya/status/547344649619128320) this about the game: "it has become a very good game".
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 23, 2014, 12:37:39 PM
Pretty soon for another fighting game, don't you think?  Anyway, can't wait to see pics soon!

Character speculation, anyone?  Sekibanki, plz!

EDIT: I just realized...  Having various characters in the series playable makes for an ideal 20th anniversary game!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. demo to be released at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 23, 2014, 01:38:53 PM
Sweet =)

ULiL will be a sequel to HM, rather than an expansion pack.
Well..... so long as it doesn't play like HM did, I guess that's cool....... Otherwise, meh, I'll just wait for Touhou 15......

I guess we will know more soon so Im not going to speculate too much. Who knows it could turn out really good.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 01:55:24 PM
Well this is a very interesting. Being a sequel rather than an expansion, will this mean an entirely new cast of characters or an entirely new story but a lot of returning characters from HM coming back? I can't imagine Tasofro making an entirely new game and entire cast of characters after all the effort they put in the last one and in such a short time span. (the last big game, SWR, came out in 2008, with it's expansion, Hisoutensoku, coming out a year later).

I'd rather it'd be a reworked HM game, because HM was actually pretty good in a competitive sense (no RNG bullshit like soku/SWR had) but the biggest problem was lack of deep mix ups and such. The flying gameplay was good, but unfortunately not many people were willing to get used to a new gameplay style for fighters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 23, 2014, 01:57:46 PM
Flying fighting games aren't new, mind you, but they are rare.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 02:02:29 PM
In all honesty, because it's a sequel rather than an expansion, instead of being like the transition from SWR to Soku, it'd be more like IaMP to SWR. Similar looks, but different game overall (in terms of main mechanics). I expect it to be just like that. Also expect the HM cast to return, considering the short time span.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on December 23, 2014, 02:21:51 PM
I was hoping this would be a shmup by ZUN, but oh well. There's hope this will be good, but after 3 meh fighters I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on December 23, 2014, 02:29:32 PM
I'd rather it'd be a reworked HM game, because HM was actually pretty good in a competitive sense (no RNG bullshit like soku/SWR had) but the biggest problem was lack of deep mix ups and such. The flying gameplay was good, but unfortunately not many people were willing to get used to a new gameplay style for fighters.
I can relate, I had a hard time learning how to play that thing, and even when I did, I had nearly nobody to play with because only one or two of my friends were somewhat interested but quickly gave up considering you have to learn everything from scratch.

It's kinda nice to see another effort though, I certainly cannot say there is no hype in me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suikama on December 23, 2014, 02:57:30 PM
please dont forget meiling again tasofro >_>
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Zil on December 23, 2014, 02:59:12 PM
This is depressing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sakurei on December 23, 2014, 03:00:35 PM
You've got to be fucking kidding me. This is the most depressing piece of news I've heard all day. And this wasn't a good year.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 23, 2014, 03:33:43 PM
What's with all the sad faces?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 23, 2014, 03:40:03 PM
What's with all the sad faces?
HM sucked like Sanae at a truckstop?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 03:40:32 PM
HM sucked like Sanae at a truckstop?
So it was basically like soku then :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 23, 2014, 03:57:04 PM
HM sucked like Sanae at a truckstop?
Because this game will totally have the same gameplay as HM. 

Right, we live in a world where people jump to conclusions often...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 03:59:51 PM
It's like I said, people bash the game because they can't get used to a fighting game that feels different from the traditional grounded fighters.

I disliked Soku because of the amount of RNG it had that just made it completely unhealthy for a competitive fighter.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 23, 2014, 04:07:25 PM
Because this game will totally have the same gameplay as HM. 
Don't get me wrong, Im not saying it will. Im saying if it does, then this will be disappointing. =) It's way too soon to speculate right now -- it just seems like the likeliest of scenarios, that's all.

I wish theyd just go back to the earlier system (SWR/Soku), iron out the problems people had with it, and add more recent characters to the lineup, personally..... If the game turns out like that, Im totally stoked! But if it turns out like HM? Meh...... it would be disappointing to see another craptastic fighter from tasofro....

Well just have to wait and see. =)

Quote from: Gpop
It's like I said, people bash the game because they can't get used to a fighting game that feels different from the traditional grounded fighters.
Different is fine. When the changes work. To me, HM was just.... bad. =( Aerial combat, the short timer, the one-button-special-moves, the popularity system, etc. I just didn't find myself enjoying any of it. The only thing I felt it had going for it was being able to customize your moveset (soku could have used that instead of its oh-so-reliable card system/replacement moves....)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on December 23, 2014, 04:08:58 PM
It's like I said, people bash the game because they can't get used to a fighting game that feels different from the traditional grounded fighters.

I disliked Soku because of the amount of RNG it had that just made it completely unhealthy for a competitive fighter.
I'm with you on this one. Once I had the controls in hand, I found a ton of combos (which I got mostly from you actually) to learn and I had a lot of fun. Like any fighter, basically.

Unless you fully know how to play a game, I don't think you're quite qualified to say it sucks.

Heck, I had people say Smash sucks because it's all different from anything else. Then they tried it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 23, 2014, 04:11:00 PM
Unless you fully know how to play a game, I don't think you're quite qualified to say it sucks.
Isn't it more a matter of enjoyability? "Suck" is subjective -- if someone doesn't like something, they don't like it. No amount of "proving" them wrong or debating "why" their opinion is wrong will make any sense...... it still sucks to them.

Personally I gave HM several honest chances and it just..... never worked for me as something enjoyable. At all. No amount of telling me "you're not using your special moves right" or "no no, you don't get how the timer and popularity mechanics work, here, I'll explain it" will make the game more "enjoyable" for me.... (And yeah, I get how the mechanics work. Don't assume I don't just because I don't like the game. =) )
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 04:17:39 PM
Different is fine. When the changes work. To me, HM was just.... bad. =( Aerial combat, the short timer, the one-button-special-moves, the popularity system, etc. I just didn't find myself enjoying any of it. The only thing I felt it had going for it was being able to customize your moveset (soku could have used that instead of its oh-so-reliable card system/replacement moves....)
Aerial combat is fine, it just takes time to get used to. The timer is just like any other fighter. In fact in a lot of high level play timeouts don't happen that frequently. And the one-button special moves is kinda eh, I'll agree, but that's because of how you can't do 236 motions anymore without a ground, so it's been changed to Smash-like controls, which makes sense. Popularity system works better, and isn't RNG-based. Again, it's another mechanic that takes time to get used to.

Although, since it's a new game, I'm assuming it'll have an entirely new mechanic. Most fighters have their "gimmick" mechanic to make it different from it's predecessor (ie. SF2 was basic, SF3 had the parry system, and SF4 had the Focus system). In the touhou fighter's case, IaMP had the simple spell card casting system, SWR/Soku had the weather system, and HM had the popularity system. Considering this is an entirely new game, popularity won't be a thing anymore since it'll have to be replaced with an entirely new system, as most new fighters do, so you won't have to worry about popularity wins anymore, I would guess.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 23, 2014, 04:24:30 PM
Considering this is an entirely new game, popularity won't be a thing anymore since it'll have to be replaced with an entirely new system, as most new fighters do, so you won't have to worry about popularity wins anymore, I would guess.
To be honest this was one of the two things I disliked most about it (aerial combat being the other -- this isn't the first game like that Ive played and it's never, never been my thing.....). I really do look forward to what this next game will have, and there's just as much a chance of it being something great as anything really..... I suppose well just have to wait and see. =)

And now begins the long, impatient period of waiting for tasofro to release more details. =)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on December 23, 2014, 04:32:53 PM
I would wish for a slightly more lenient combo system because I suck at learning long combos (Blazblue is my hell), but eh, I can work with what we already have.

Isn't it more a matter of enjoyability? "Suck" is subjective -- if someone doesn't like something, they don't like it. No amount of "proving" them wrong or debating "why" their opinion is wrong will make any sense...... it still sucks to them.
Or you could just say you don't like it. I don't think declaring something sucks is nice to anybody who likes the thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 23, 2014, 04:36:08 PM
>lol its gonna suxxorz ballzorz
Apparently you guys missed ZUN's assurance. :V
According to D.N.A., ZUN said (https://twitter.com/quuya/status/547344649619128320) this about the game: "it has become a very good game".
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 04:38:23 PM
I would wish for a slightly more lenient combo system because I suck at learning long combos (Blazblue is my hell), but eh, I can work with what we already have.
Personally, the combo system is lenient enough as it is. The combo difficulty depends on each characters though. For example, Koishi is probably the easiest in terms of learning combos, while Ichirin requires box dashing to connect damaging combos properly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on December 23, 2014, 04:40:47 PM
Or you could just say you don't like it. I don't think declaring something sucks is nice to anybody who likes the thing.

This exactly. Personally I enjoyed HM a lot the cast was like a reboot of the fighting games (Which felt nice, because I was hoping for a game for this whole religious war thing), the aerial combat personally felt very good, felt very Touhou-ish, controls were nice and you could actually realize a character moveset very easily without complicated inputs (A friend of mine who hates complicated controls found this game very appealing)

I really didn't liked SWR/Soku (I even liked IaMP to an extent) and I was quite disappointed these were the only fighting games avaible, however I really dislike when people say "HM sucks" or stuff like "what a disappointment if it's like HM" I have to admit the popularity system could be a let down for most people but I really enjoyed the game so stop bashing it. You didn't like it? Okay, but really stop bashing.

On the topic of th14.5 btw I think if Tasofro said it's going to be a sequel rather than an expansion (Makes sense, the game is labeled as Th14.5, not 14.3 (heh) or 14.7) then they are probably making huge tweaks to the mechanics (If it's a fighter) because I'm sure they already know (Maybe in japan they didn't liked HM too, I don't know) that most people disliked the new mechanics, idk we don't really know much about this game.

But I hope that if it's a 20th anniversary game they add a lot of characters  ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 23, 2014, 04:48:29 PM
Ah, a HM-style sequel? Me gusta.

And I don't know what you people are complaining about. I prefer the mechanics of HM more than SWR/Hisotensoku, and definitely more than IaMP's wacky spell declare system. It's much easier to activate special attacks and spell cards with the HM system than the older games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 23, 2014, 04:56:16 PM
What the fuck? They're making a sequel to this shitty kusoge?

God dammit. The people who made IaMP are truly dead at this point. Looks like Tasofro would rather just crap out another kusoge and get that sweet 2hu fan money instead of making another legit fighting game. Uuuuugh.

Excuse me, I'm going to go watch some IaMP competitive play videos and cry over what could have been.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 23, 2014, 04:58:13 PM
I really didn't liked SWR/Soku (I even liked IaMP to an extent) and I was quite disappointed these were the only fighting games avaible, however I really dislike when people say "HM sucks" or stuff like "what a disappointment if it's like HM"
So, it's cool to be disappointed in SWR/Soku but not HM, because you like HM?

You can certainly have your own opinion about both of those, and that's perfectly fine and nobody can tell you you're wrong to feel that way, but you have to extend the same courtesy to others too. Some of us didn't like HM and we're just as allowed to consider the possibility of a new HM-like game disappointing as you were to feel disappointed in SWR/Soku being the only fighting games available at the time...... Just sayin'...... Peace.

Here's hoping that whatever they do with this one, we'll all be able to enjoy it. =)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hanzo K. on December 23, 2014, 05:01:08 PM
I sorta got used to the flying mechanics, though I still have general misgivings about how it was done rather than having been done at all. I mean Auto-Leveling, really? Free-move would've been a lot easier to get used to, I have to worry about the auto-leveler messing up my combos and specials whenever I try to adjust for the 'correction'.
And the one-button specials was actually quite refreshing in comparison to the other fighters, same goes for the customizable special sets.
The only things I didn't particularly like about HM were the shorter timer than SWR/Soku, and the popularity system.
I like deciding my wins by knockout, not some easy way out like 'timeout', or 'being more popular despite getting swung around the floor like an old mop'. I like things to have spice~!

Basically the gist of what I'm saying is 'it had some good stuff, and some not-so-good stuff, but was an alright enough game all the same'.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sakurei on December 23, 2014, 05:02:02 PM
Have you tried...you know...not being overly super sensitive when it comes to other people phrasing things? There is literally no difference in meaning between "it sucks" and "I dislike it", because both will always be the same subjective opinion of an individual, or in more rare cases, groups. Being offended at one, but not the other makes no sense, assuming the reasoning behind the two is the same. Of course, it's not cool saying things like "Everyone who likes xxx is dumb as shit", yes. But saying "xxx sucks, because (...)" should not be something where people go "omg, stop being a bully". People have a different way of phrasing things (e.g cursing a lot vs not cursing a lot) and I feel it's fairly patronizing towards people who were simply brought up in a cruder way than your sheltered self. Being nice towards each other is important, but nitpicking minor differences in phrasing is just ridiculous in my eyes.

20th anniversary isn't until 2016, assuming you take the first showing of HrtP as starting point, not the release, in which case it wouldn't be until 2017. And personally, I hope it's something that reuses a lot of old, good girls. Like Youmu and Alice.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on December 23, 2014, 05:06:57 PM
Everybody's complaining about how its a sequel to HM (well, almost everybody anyway, a fair few people),  but nobody's speculating stuff related to the new game itself. My guess is it'll keep the aerial fighting but take out the popularity. I think the flying could be a bit better, maybe make the stages one or two levels taller and make it so it doesn't force you to the middle.

The game itself is called Urban Legend in Limbo, so I'm curious what sort of urban legend stuff will be in it. Maybe we will see the return of Remilia's pet chupacabra?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on December 23, 2014, 05:07:44 PM
So, it's cool to be disappointed in SWR/Soku but not HM, because you like HM?

It's just my opinion but I'm not bashing about those games all the time, I mean, for being the only fighters avaible they were good but I didn't liked them too much.
When HM pops up with anyone who knows Touhou it's always the same "HM sucks" :V

I sorta got used to the flying mechanics, though I still have general misgivings about how it was done rather than having been done at all. I mean Auto-Leveling, really? Free-move would've been a lot easier to get used to, I have to worry about the auto-leveler messing up my combos and specials whenever I try to adjust for the 'correction'.
And the one-button specials was actually quite refreshing in comparison to the other fighters, same goes for the customizable special sets.
The only things I didn't particularly like about HM were the shorter timer than SWR/Soku, and the popularity system.
I like deciding my wins by knockout, not some easy way out like 'timeout', or 'being more popular despite getting swung around the floor like an old mop'. I like things to have spice~!

Basically the gist of what I'm saying is 'it had some good stuff, and some not-so-good stuff, but was an alright enough game all the same'.

Yeah, the auto-leveling was weird at first but I guess you get used to it, I still want to see how it would work without auto-leveling. Yeah, one button specials was the best addition, it felt like Smash in that way and I love the controls there because it's easier to know what you want to do, the timer was never of an issue to me but I understand that some heated battles could take more than the alocated time limit :<, there should be an option to change it though.

20th anniversary isn't until 2016, assuming you take the first showing of HrtP as starting point, not the release, in which case it wouldn't be until 2017. And personally, I hope it's something that reuses a lot of old, good girls. Like Youmu and Alice.

Oh, true :v just checked it out, got carried away and thought it was on 2015 but yeah. Still we don't know if ZUN will take into account when HRtP was finished or when it was displayed, anyway next year is an odd year and ZUN recently (?) only releases big games during odd years, idk maybe we could expect Th15 too?

And yeah :< I was hoping HM would receive an expansion this year to include some old girls, the cast of Touhou is so diverse it's hard to include everyone but hey this time it could be special.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on December 23, 2014, 05:23:16 PM
God dammit. The people who made IaMP are truly dead at this point. Looks like Tasofro would rather just crap out another kusoge and get that sweet 2hu fan money instead of making another legit fighting game. Uuuuugh.

I didn't check the staff rolls but the games released after IaMP were probably designed by different people. IaMP is so unorthodox though. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a beautiful accident.

20th anniversary isn't until 2016, assuming you take the first showing of HrtP as starting point, not the release, in which case it wouldn't be until 2017. And personally, I hope it's something that reuses a lot of old, good girls. Like Youmu and Alice.

The game was completed in 1995, which ZUN considers to be Touhou's birth year.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 23, 2014, 05:46:15 PM
Awful lot of complaining in here from people that were never going to buy this game anyway.

Most excited to see which familiar faces will return, as well as which new face(s?) we'll get. Probably not 67 new faces like HM, but who knows?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 23, 2014, 05:50:51 PM
Awful lot of complaining in here from people that were never going to buy this game anyway.

The only people who say this are fanboys who can't handle someone criticizing their favorite thing.

Sorry I hurt your fee-fees
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on December 23, 2014, 05:55:26 PM
Pushing aside some of the negativity (not that people don't have a right to complain, but the "boo suck"ing and "ugh shitty kusoge" is kind of killing my excitement), I'm interested in seeing how this will go. I enjoyed HM for what it was worth (shit AI and popularity systems could have been way better), so hopefully Tasofro will see what they fucked up on and make something new. Given it's a sequel there will most likely be a different system in play over the popularity system, and hopefully it will go over better.

CUT:

The only people who say this are fanboys who can't handle someone criticizing their favorite thing.

Sorry I hurt your fee-fees

I can feel the rudeness, it's that thick.

This might be educational. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 23, 2014, 06:02:58 PM
The only people who say this are fanboys who can't handle someone criticizing their favorite thing.

Sorry I hurt your fee-fees

Hey, no skin off my nose, the game's getting made and I'll be buying it regardless of what anyone else in the West thinks about it. But thanks for confirming that you can't handle the bantz, at least.

Anyway. Crosspost from Tumblr of curiosities about the screenshot:

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on December 23, 2014, 06:07:16 PM
Anyway. Crosspost from Tumblr of curiosities about the screenshot:

  • The mugshots are new, even though the sprites are the same. hungrybookworm pointed out that they're Moe Harukawa-style. Playable 'Suzu, please.
  • The character?s names are in Western order. Has Tasofro always done this? I know ZUN puts them in Japanese order, even when romanized.
  • The graphics at the bottom suggest a return to IaMP-style spellcards. Maybe the flame icons are a return to SWR/Soku-style danmaku energy?
  • I wonder what function the beads that circle the bottom of the clock will serve. Maybe another popularity-ish mechanic? The colors match that of the flame icon colors at the bottom.

There was a screenshot? I didn't see it linked on the site or here. Maybe I missed it?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on December 23, 2014, 06:09:14 PM
http://tasofro.net/diary/view/108
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on December 23, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
...Is Reimu shooting grave markers and a piano out of a gap?

Also hmm... that does kinda look like IaMP style bars at the bottom, but without the "this is how many times you can spam the card once you've declared it" thing. The numbers are probably something like "this is how much "charge" you have, and this is how much it takes to use the card" or something like that. Not quite sure, but maybe?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 23, 2014, 06:18:09 PM
Also hmm... that does kinda look like IaMP style bars at the bottom, but without the "this is how many times you can spam the card once you've declared it" thing. The numbers are probably something like "this is how much "charge" you have, and this is how much it takes to use the card" or something like that. Not quite sure, but maybe?

That's...not how the IaMP spell card bar worked. Your charge determined how long your declaration period went on for. You could use the card as much as you wanted as long as your declaration went on unless it was one of of those auto-drain cards.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on December 23, 2014, 06:23:43 PM
...Really? Huh. My memory's foggy, I have not touched IaMP in forever. Oh well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PurpleXCompleX on December 23, 2014, 06:36:41 PM
Well, this looks interesting, looking forward to it, whether it'll play like HM or not.

I wonder whats up with that falling piano next to Marisa.
Also you can finally choose a toilet as a profile icon!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 23, 2014, 06:50:19 PM
http://tasofro.net/diary/view/108
So...... yeah..... it's an HM-like game after all. Im not going to dismiss this one without giving it a shot for sure but I was hoping for something different..... =/ Oh well, it's still too early to judge it so let's stay positive! =)

The spellcard system looks interesting. And it seems like they've done away with the popularity system and increased the timer duration. So there's that -- it's good to see some of the improvements. On the down side, it doesn't look as though the unique character mechanics are present like they were in HM. Or maybe they're made less obvious? I don't see anything setting Reimu apart from Marisa in the HUD, apart from her spellcard meter being shorter for some reason. Maybe it's been standardized more and every character just uses the orbs under the timer in some way instead of having custom icons/meters/etc?

It looks like this one will have configurable movesets too (probably). I can just barely make out "profile 1" and "profile 2" next to the timer on either side of the screen so some setup-type stuff for the characters seems likely.

The background feels kind of empty without a crowd watching the fight. Oh well, I suppose that's to be expected if the game doesn't revolve around popularity.

Well then. I hope those of you who enjoyed HM will enjoy this one just as much! =)

(edit -- is that a TV near the bottom/middle? The kappa sure have been busy lately.....)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on December 23, 2014, 06:54:28 PM
The background feels kind of empty without a crowd watching the fight. Oh well, I suppose that's to be expected if the game doesn't revolve around popularity.
(http://i.imgur.com/miBAF4N.gif)
R.I.P
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on December 23, 2014, 07:07:30 PM
Hype get. Can already not wait to try out the demo.

I enjoyed the flow of battle in HM and am as happy as others that the popularity system and short timer seem to be gone.
Wonder what kind of story this will have. The background on the screenshot doesn't look very Gensokyo-ish - talking mainly about all those posters on the walls. Could we actually step outside the border in this game? The games logo seems to hint at something similar with what looks like a cityscape inside the spirit.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 07:11:43 PM
The only people who say this are fanboys who can't handle someone criticizing their favorite thing.

Sorry I hurt your fee-fees
Stop acting like a biased Melee player and move on. You're just putting yourself on a lower level than everyone else here.


Anyways, looking at the image I've noticed some other things:
- Everyone is limited to one spell card now. I like this change. It'll be like IaMP or SF4 Ultras (minus the new Ultra W).
- Timer is still around. This is good.
- orbs below the timer? What does it mean? My best guess is that it could possibly be like the GRD system in Under Night In-Birth?
- Reimu has much less meter than Marisa. Does that correspond to the spell card chosen? If so, is the meter for spirit or spell card fill?
- And speaking of, what's the flames about? If the other meter is for spell card usage, does the flames mean it's for spirit usage, or something else?
- Finally, no character-specific mechanics are shown, at least not in the image, and I'm glad about that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 23, 2014, 07:25:54 PM
Hopeless Masquerade had no characters in the background in initial shots either. They were added to later development builds, IIRC.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on December 23, 2014, 07:27:03 PM
Stop acting like a Melee tourneyfag and move on. You're just putting yourself on a lower level than everyone else here.

How is he acting like a "melee tourneyfag"? I don't think I understand.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 07:31:01 PM
How is he acting like a "melee tourneyfag"? I don't think I understand.
Like a lot of biased Melee players (not to be mistaken with other competitive Melee/Smash players) will bash any game that's not Melee or play like it. He's acting like this already except with IaMP, bashing ULIL before any gameplay is ever shown.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on December 23, 2014, 07:33:12 PM
(edit -- is that a TV near the bottom/middle? The kappa sure have been busy lately.....)

From what I can tell in the picture I think that's Kourindou, so the TV might be from there.

Assuming the "Spell power" meters are chargable, the different lengths might mean that Fantasy Seal charges faster than Master Spark (assuming those are the cards from the image). It also seem's they're both charged to 200%, so maybe it's like Perfect Freeze in Fairy Wars in how it works?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suwako Moriya on December 23, 2014, 08:08:27 PM
In all seriousness, can we please not use that term?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 23, 2014, 08:44:48 PM
In all seriousness, can we please not use that term?
My apologies. I'll go edit that term out then to something better.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quukii on December 23, 2014, 08:49:55 PM
Aw, I was hoping for 14.5 to be some sort of shmup. Oh well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: notext on December 23, 2014, 10:11:59 PM
It makes sense that they'd try and get some mileage out of the Hopeless Masquerade sprites, and given the negative reaction to HM it makes sense that they'd try and mix up the system a bit. Unless there's a bit more depth to how you get at your opponent and the overall feeling of movement is more fun though I probably won't be interested. I'd also be surprised if the popularity meter, or something like it, didn't make its way back in some form unless they've changed things pretty fundamentally so it's possible to crack open players who turtle.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on December 23, 2014, 10:26:29 PM
Everyone is limited to one spell card now. I like this change. It'll be like IaMP or SF4 Ultras (minus the new Ultra W).

I could never figure out how spellcards worked in IaMP. I liked it better with SWR/Hisoutensoku.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on December 23, 2014, 10:31:42 PM
...Is Reimu shooting grave markers and a piano out of a gap?

Looks like she's been taking lessons from Yukari!

Well, I'm excited now.  Can't wait to see exactly where they're going with the system.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on December 23, 2014, 10:49:28 PM
I'm still good with DDC and ISC these days, and a game like HM encourages expansion, which is a good thing. I like when he rolls with a theme through a couple games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on December 23, 2014, 10:57:03 PM
Quote
Reimu and company have assumed the rumors that fit them, and treat the anomalies as their playthings.
As long as one can control the rumors without being afraid, the manifested anomalies can be rendered harmless.
More than that, they can be turned into powers of one's own.
The girls thought of controlling the urban legends by themselves as a necessary measure for keeping people from harm.

I wonder if this will affect gameplay in any way. Maybe it's this games gimmick, like the weather in SWR and popularity in HM and whatnot.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on December 23, 2014, 11:04:03 PM
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/2e1b3a5453c539fe1db9416834d8b3b8/tumblr_nh1v7p1PZm1s8gq0go1_500.png)

For those that have not seen it. Glad to see we are using HM sprites! They looked very good.

Now let's see what is of interest here:
-Score is back from IaMP, it's been mising since soku.
-Indeed the setting doesn't look like it's Gensokyo, or we are outside the border of something huge stepped into Gensokyo (A building?)
-Reimu is definitely using a portal to attack with a piano and grave makers, maybe she is using the "legends" to summon stuff?
-The spell cards and the numbers might be something similar to IaMP, someone raised the posibility the spells need a recharge time, the health bars don't have another "bar" which was something we saw in IaMP and HM so the spells might be able to be used at any time

I'm taking a guess here but it looks like the new system might be based on using the urban legends, like if Reimu can "cast" a legend by telling rumors about it, then she will be able to use it to battle, but the same legend could be modified by another characters (ie: Marisa), that's what the orbs and flames could mean in the screenshot
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MewMewHeart on December 23, 2014, 11:29:27 PM
So... when's the who's gonna be in the game hype starts? I can't wait.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on December 23, 2014, 11:54:53 PM
So... when's the who's gonna be in the game hype starts? I can't wait.
I'd assume everyone from HM since they already have the resources. I also want to say (read: hoping for) Seija because of her recent relevance. If this is supposed to be the 20th anniversary game I'd guess some older characters, Sakuya, Yukari, Suika, etc. If it's not supposed to be something special I don't really know. Most of the important DDC characters would fit poorly in a fighter (Sukuna is the size of a thumb, Raiko has to lug around her drums).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Camilo113 on December 24, 2014, 12:02:37 AM
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/2e1b3a5453c539fe1db9416834d8b3b8/tumblr_nh1v7p1PZm1s8gq0go1_500.png)

For those that have not seen it. Glad to see we are using HM sprites! They looked very good.

Now let's see what is of interest here:
-Score is back from IaMP, it's been mising since soku.
-Indeed the setting doesn't look like it's Gensokyo, or we are outside the border of something huge stepped into Gensokyo (A building?)
-Reimu is definitely using a portal to attack with a piano and grave makers, maybe she is using the "legends" to summon stuff?
-The spell cards and the numbers might be something similar to IaMP, someone raised the posibility the spells need a recharge time, the health bars don't have another "bar" which was something we saw in IaMP and HM so the spells might be able to be used at any time

I'm taking a guess here but it looks like the new system might be based on using the urban legends, like if Reimu can "cast" a legend by telling rumors about it, then she will be able to use it to battle, but the same legend could be modified by another characters (ie: Marisa), that's what the orbs and flames could mean in the screenshot
The setting looks identical to Kourindou, and the about the gap; wasn't Yukari teaching some stuff to Reimu after PCB, that explains Reimu's later SC with Boundary or Barrier Sign, like Duplex Danmaku Barrier and some tricks Reimu can do in-game. Wouldn't surprise me if they finally made a SC were Reimu can open a gap to throw some objects.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on December 24, 2014, 12:08:41 AM
So... when's the who's gonna be in the game hype starts? I can't wait.

I say Remilia could make it in. Would make way for vampire stuff, and then she has that pet chupacabra too, which could be mentioned with the whole 'Urban Legend' thing.

I kind of want to say Sekibanki, and I'm not sure why. Rosalia and Luma type gameplay would probably fit her. I wonder if there'll be any characters other than Reimu and Marisa in the demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Soul Devour on December 24, 2014, 12:13:56 AM
So... when's the who's gonna be in the game hype starts? I can't wait.

Is this possibly the game Kasen finally becomes playable? I want to believe but...would she fit in?

Obviously urban legends means Mima is gonna make it in
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on December 24, 2014, 12:16:42 AM
about the gap; wasn't Yukari teaching some stuff to Reimu after PCB, that explains Reimu's later SC with Boundary or Barrier Sign, like Duplex Danmaku Barrier and some tricks Reimu can do in-game.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14800.msg1054643.html#msg1054643
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on December 24, 2014, 12:16:52 AM
Is this possibly the game Kasen finally becomes playable? I want to believe but...would she fit in?

Obviously urban legends means Mima is gonna make it in
This just in
Kasen is the new Mima.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 24, 2014, 12:39:45 AM
Aw, I was hoping for 14.5 to be some sort of shmup. Oh well.

Maybe 14.8. Maybe.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on December 24, 2014, 12:59:52 AM
14.8 will be a phantasmagoria game obvs.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 24, 2014, 01:05:45 AM
14.8 will be a phantasmagoria game obvs.

Maybe. Just Maybe.

B-but the pattern! What about the Phantasmagoria pattern?!? (lol jk)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 24, 2014, 01:19:57 AM
Goodness, I'm incredibly hyped for this. I guess I'm in the minority of people that liked Hopeless Masquerade, and would actually like a sequel.



Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 24, 2014, 01:42:35 AM
Did people really think they wouldn't ever make another HM sequel or something?  Practically every fighting game in existance has had its assets re-used.  Might as well save on the costs after all.

Besides, as pointed out, it could (and probably will) play insanely different from HM anyways akin to SWR compared to IAMP.  Not that that's necessarily a good thing, mind you, but at least it means things are up in the air rather than guaranteed to be bad!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MewMewHeart on December 24, 2014, 01:48:50 AM
I'm rooting for Sukuna, Kagerou, possibly Yuyuko, and... Tojiko *LAST CHOICE TOTES NOT IN LATER*
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 24, 2014, 02:04:48 AM
I'm rooting for Sukuna, Kagerou, possibly Yuyuko, and... Tojiko *LAST CHOICE TOTES NOT IN LATER*

To be honest, anyone who hasn't been in any of the fighters (or at least Hopeless Masquerade) will do for me.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on December 24, 2014, 02:06:45 AM
Goodness, I'm incredibly hyped for this. I guess I'm in the minority of people that liked Hopeless Masquerade, and would actually like a sequel.

You're not alone.

I just want Nue, is it that much?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on December 24, 2014, 02:09:40 AM
You know, you people were talking about how weird the stages themselves look, and how the stage itself seems to be Kourindou, and I was reminded of Arcana Heart suddenly. Like in Arcana Heart, the stages themselves look normal at first, but after you activate certain super mode mechanism, the stages change to include all sort of weird stuff. So maybe this has a similar deal to it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MewMewHeart on December 24, 2014, 02:19:27 AM
You know, you people were talking about how weird the stages themselves look, and how the stage itself seems to be Kourindou, and I was reminded of Arcana Heart suddenly. Like in Arcana Heart, the stages themselves look normal at first, but after you activate certain super mode mechanism, the stages change to include all sort of weird stuff. So maybe this has a similar deal to it.
I'm all for that gimick just so I can make a "I'M ON SHROOMS" or "I'M TRIPPIN BALLS MAN!" joke.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on December 24, 2014, 02:50:54 AM
Right so initially I was going to explode about how it's an HM sequel because I disliked HM for a variety of reasons but instead I'm going to try and keep my mind a bit more open until the demo itself actually drops. After all, Street Fighter 1 was garbage, but Street Fighter 2 pretty much invented the whole fighting game genre, right?


tl;dr As long as it's not a rehash of HM and its flawed systems I'll give it a shot.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 24, 2014, 02:53:37 AM
Having learnt my lesson from the HM threads (that the thread quickly become impossible for any newcomer to follow), I'll be updating the OP with new information until the next major ULiL discussion thread is opened.

Quote
A screenshot from the official blog (http://tasofro.net/diary/view/108) shows a fight in front of Kourindou:

The building to the left was not there in Kourindou's previous appearances. Has Rinnosuke gotten rich or something?

The jewels under the time countdown should be the "Occult Balls" mentioned in the Digi Game Expo flyer. Some say the time clock somewhat resembles the Dragon Radar, in keeping with the Dragon Ball reference. Looks like some sort of advantage system; probably the player with more Occult Balls wins when countdown ends.

The wooden strips shooting out of the gap are sotoba (http://haikutopics.blogspot.jp/2006/04/grave-marker-sotoba.html), Japanese grave markers. Wasn't this used to be Yukari's attack in SWR?

The demo version will feature some characters and the beginning of the Story Mode.

This is also a return of the given name + family name order: "Reimu Hakurei", "Marisa Kirisame". Ah, good old pre-MoF days.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 24, 2014, 03:03:54 AM
given name + family name order:"Kirisame Marisa"

I think you made a mistake here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 24, 2014, 03:18:32 AM
I'll just take a seat and watch people moan about another advantage system.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 24, 2014, 03:22:41 AM
I'll just take a seat and watch people moan about another advantage system.

Eh, I don't really care about that system. All I care about is the spell card system, and as long it is as easy to use as in HM, I'm happy.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 24, 2014, 03:55:52 AM
Site isn't working for me since yesterday...

Someone please post all the pics?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 24, 2014, 04:11:53 AM
Site isn't working for me since yesterday...

Someone please post all the pics?

Thanks in advance!
You are the first one to report this here. Where are you physically located?

The thing about Twilight Frontier is, their site had for many years blocked the Chinese IP address band with a 403 Forbidden message. Their site used to be still accessible in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

However, this time they've switched their blocking policy. Now the entirety of China, Taiwan and Hong Kong included, cannot access their site. Judging from your information, they've also blocked Southeast Asia?

I did considered this, so I've posted the screenshot in the OP. Now that you've asked, I've added the two images from Tasofro's site. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on December 24, 2014, 04:22:53 AM
Obviously urban legends means Mima is gonna make it in

At this point, she's practically become one

inb4 HURR DURR MIMA FOR FINAL BOSS
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 24, 2014, 04:24:27 AM
The thing about Twilight Frontier is, their site had for many years blocked the Chinese IP address band with a 403 Forbidden message. Their site used to be still accessible in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

However, this time they've switched their blocking policy. Now the entirety of China, Taiwan and Hong Kong included, cannot access their site. Judging from your information, they've also blocked Southeast Asia?
So why are they blocking these particular countries in the first place? Also, I'm in Indonesia and I can't seem to connect to their site too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 24, 2014, 04:37:50 AM
So why are they blocking these particular countries in the first place? Also, I'm in Indonesia and I can't seem to connect to their site too.

Good 'ol Japanese racism and xenophobia, of course! What else?

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 24, 2014, 04:45:39 AM
I can connect to tasofro normally from Indonesia. Perhaps their site was down due to traffic the moment you tried.

 Anyway... I can't wait.  :3 I hope they fixed what everyone hated from 13.5.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 24, 2014, 04:45:50 AM
You are the first one to report this here. Where are you physically located?
Thailand, but their sites worked for me in the past.

And as expected, someone is already screaming "Touhou is dead" because of this game already.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on December 24, 2014, 04:56:26 AM
What's this ado about Reimu having gaps? Are there any urban legends linked to that?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SirSlarty on December 24, 2014, 05:13:26 AM
I'm terrible at fighting-style games (don't understand them at all) therefore I don't really care about this new game unless it delves into more backstory of characters or introduces a new one.

Keine, Kosuzu and Kasen
as playable characters please.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 24, 2014, 05:52:08 AM
Keine

Totally agree! She seems she would be a great fit!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 24, 2014, 06:59:25 AM
One thing to look forward to in fighting games is that they showcase the girls' fighting styles in "clearer" ways, because in the shooting games, pretty much everything looks like energy projectiles, which doesn't really help in visualizing what exactly they're doing or shooting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on December 24, 2014, 09:46:35 AM
because in the shooting games, pretty much everything looks like energy projectiles, which doesn't really help in visualizing what exactly they're doing or shooting.

With a few exception, e.i Sakuya, Utsuho

I expect there'll be at least one or two characters other than Reimu and Marisa coming back from HM. I'm hoping for Koishi, though if the card have changed in such a way as to remove the 8 customizable slots then that might make it a bit harder.

I'm wondering, if the balls under the timer are something more like "who believes your rumors more than your opponents"?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 24, 2014, 10:08:35 AM
With a few exception, e.i Sakuya, Utsuho
Utsuho shoots energy balls, or balls of fire, so it's basically the same thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SacredWind on December 24, 2014, 12:06:10 PM
I saw "Touhou 14.5" and expected a nice christmas present. Instead I learn it's a sequel to the crapfest that was HM.... So disappointed... sooooo disappointed.... Sigh... -_- Thanks for nothing, Tasofro. Way to get my hopes up. Merry fucking christmas to you too...

Well... I hope someone enjoys it , at least. I know I won't. What's so complicated about this? Air-based fighters are terrible games. Ugh! No amount of "hur de hur hur spellcard system" or "magic fire thingie at the bottom of the screen" mechanics can change that. You can cover a turd in hot fudge and sprinkle marshmallows all over it but that's still a steaming pile of shit under all that interesting stuff - nobody's going to want to eat that!!

Fuck you Tasofro. From the depths of my heart. Fuck you hard.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 24, 2014, 12:21:15 PM
This coming from the guy with a HM avatar. :V
Look do I have to point to ZUN's quote (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1151232.html#msg1151232) again? Can't we just have faith in ZUN's assurance? 'Cause I'm getting real tired of all this negativity. Do I have to ask for a mod to clean up all the shitposting?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SacredWind on December 24, 2014, 12:37:22 PM
This coming from the guy with a HM avatar. :V
I like the artwork. There's that, at least. :)

Look do I have to point to ZUN's quote (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1151232.html#msg1151232) again? Can't we just have faith in ZUN's assurance?
Ok. This is probably going to come as a shock to you, but I think it needs to be said. Ready? Here goes...

ZUN is not god. The entire world is not going to share his opinion. He said the same thing about HM and it still turned out being a terrible, terrible smear on an otherwise great series of games. Of COURSE he's going to support this - Touhou is his franchise and he has nothing to gain by calling an official game "terrible".

'Cause I'm getting real tired of all this negativity. Do I have to ask for a mod to clean up all the shitposting?
So that's how things work around here? Shower every single game that comes out with positivity and love or be silenced? What is this, North Korea? -_- HM was CRAP of the highest caliber and it needs to be said. A horrible, horrible waste. That I actually imported and wasted my money on, unlike (let's be honest here people) the majority of people on this side of the world. All I ever hear about it are endorsements from apologists - nobody in their right mind liked it and nobody in their right mind should anyway.

Fuck this. It's christmas. I don't need this kind of disappointment. I have a family to be with. -_- Merry christmas to everyone, try not to let this kick in the balls by Tasofro bring you all down. Be with your loved ones - that's what matters...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on December 24, 2014, 12:37:56 PM
It's like I said, people bash the game because they can't get used to a fighting game that feels different from the traditional grounded fighters.

I disliked Soku because of the amount of RNG it had that just made it completely unhealthy for a competitive fighter.
And the AI really sucked in that game.  I hope they improve that this go around.

For 14.5, I also really hope they re-think story mode.  The quasi-arcade style they've been using for years is old and stale.  Perhaps Tasofro should borrow something from either original Melty Blood's playbook (branching paths based on player choices and/or fight results) or mimic Netherrealm's story mode system (a singular longer story with character-focused chapters).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on December 24, 2014, 12:42:55 PM
This coming from the guy with a HM avatar. :V
Look do I have to point to ZUN's quote (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1151232.html#msg1151232) again? Can't we just have faith in ZUN's assurance? 'Cause I'm getting real tired of all this negativity. Do I have to ask for a mod to clean up all the shitposting?

Negative opinions aren't shitposts. Sure people are overreacting a bit, but HM was pretty widely disliked so it's to be expected people will be disappointed to hear that they're making a sequel to it.

ZUN is also probably no fighting game specialist. Some games are fun to those who don't play games of that genre very often, but fail to entertain those who are more experienced. Nobody can really judge ULiL until they get to play it, but there's a good chance it will be one of these games.

I'm hoping they'll make this fun for everyone, not just for those who rarely play fighters, but like I said before I'm keeping my expectations low.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on December 24, 2014, 12:43:47 PM
Fuck this. It's christmas. I don't need this kind of disappointment. I have a family to be with. -_- Merry christmas to everyone, try not to let this kick in the balls by Tasofro bring you all down. Be with your loved ones - that's what matters...
Aren't you taking this a little bit too far? I thought it was a joke post at first.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 24, 2014, 12:49:28 PM
Negative opinions aren't shitposts. Sure people are overreacting a bit, but HM was pretty widely disliked so it's to be expected people will be disappointed to hear that they're making a sequel to it.

ZUN is also probably no fighting game specialist. Some games are fun to those who don't play games of that genre very often, but fail to entertain those who are more experienced. Nobody can really judge ULiL until they get to play it, but there's a good chance it will be one of these games.

I'm hoping they'll make this fun for everyone, not just for those who rarely play fighters, but like I said before I'm keeping my expectations low.
Really, it's the overreactions I'm getting tired of. Sure, the flight-based gameplay doesn't exactly facilitate high-low mixups, but I still appreciate the fact that they're trying something new. It just needs a fair bit of polish.
Also, I like Guilty Gear, I like BlazBlue, I like KoF, and also a fair bit of other quality fighting games. I also like HM. Am I insane? No. If I were, I'd be bottling it all up until I go nuclear here. There.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 24, 2014, 01:13:02 PM
Lol, I doubt people who bashed 13.5 actually understand why said game has dead community.

Stop with the shitpost- you know nothing about 14.5, it's not an expansion. It's probably as different as SWR is to IaMP.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Lightseeker on December 24, 2014, 01:17:16 PM
Fuck you Tasofro. From the depths of my heart. Fuck you hard.

Fuck this. It's christmas. I don't need this kind of disappointment. I have a family to be with. -_- Merry christmas to everyone, try not to let this kick in the balls by Tasofro bring you all down. Be with your loved ones - that's what matters...

Wow, aren't you taking this a little too personal? A game announcement supposedly ruins your Christmas? Seriously?

Lol, I doubt people who bashed 13.5 actually understand why said game has dead community.

Stop with the shitpost- you know nothing about 14.5, it's not an expansion. It's probably as different as SWR is to IaMP.

Care to elaborate on the actual reason?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on December 24, 2014, 01:27:26 PM
Yeah, there's a world of difference between legit criticism that actually makes points supported by an argument, and the kind of temper tantrum fuck-you-laden cries of entitlement from people who didn't get exactly what they wanted. And that's leaving aside how many of these folks weren't about to give ZUN their money anyway.

Make cogent points of criticism or stop bleating about your precious expectations that "ruined Christmas". You can do that on /jp/.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 24, 2014, 01:31:58 PM
I sense this thread eventually getting locked.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on December 24, 2014, 01:34:22 PM
I sense nothing of the sort. We're not going to lock something as major as a game-announcement thread on account of a few people arguing.

If anyone behaves in a mod-actionable fashion, they will be dealt with on an individual basis.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 24, 2014, 01:35:19 PM
Care to elaborate on the actual reason?

After questioning several players who played other fighters (IaMP/Soku/BB/SG/others), there's a lot of opinions as to why the game is disliked, but these are probably the majority of them:
- Comeback mechanics which rewards weaker players (spell bar should be increasing when you do something, not when you get hit by something- is what people wanted)
- Some of the mechanics are annoying (whiff cancels, spell declare duration, popularity, time, etc)
- Game turns into endurance contest (it's ridiculously difficult to damage anyone decent, this might be true for IaMP as well but IaMP doesn't have the rest of the problems)
- Game is rather slow
- Game is very limited
- Skill ceiling too short

Air only fights can lead to any mechanic if so wished, it's just that 13.5 did it bad. Now, I agree 13.5 was a failure but 14.5 is clearly not 13.5.
(We should also remember that some people doesn't even know why they dislike a game, they just dislike it and points wrong reasons like saying "air only fights making it kusoge".)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on December 24, 2014, 01:58:05 PM
Quote
I'm interested in seeing how this will go. I enjoyed HM for what it was worth (shit AI and popularity systems could have been way better), so hopefully Tasofro will see what they fucked up on and make something new. Given it's a sequel there will most likely be a different system in play over the popularity system, and hopefully it will go over better.

Well, let's hope the AI isn't so horrible. Not asking for Street Fighter level AI, but at least better than what was in Hopeless Masquerade.

@Urban Legend in Limbo Spell Card: I am guessing it is how quickly you can charge it. So Fantasy Seal only takes 800 energy to be useable and Master Spark takes 1500 energy to be usable. Kind of like in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, where you need X cards to activate the spell.
I wonder if the flames are the energy meter for special move consumption?
Orbs on top may be the Urban unique mechanic?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 24, 2014, 02:12:42 PM
Lol, I doubt people who bashed 13.5 actually understand why said game has dead community.
Don't worry. SWR had the exact same reaction when it first came out from the initial IaMP fanbase. Last I remember they also bashed soku when it was also announced.

And the AI really sucked in that game.  I hope they improve that this go around.
Tbh AI sucked in every Tasofro fighter. HM was one of the worst I've seen though.

- Comeback mechanics which rewards weaker players (spell bar should be increasing when you do something, not when you get hit by something- is what people wanted)
Unfortunately this is a trend in recent fighting games overall to help out newer players and also still give the losing players a chance. If anything, it's like Ultras in Street Fighter IV, as both requires you to take damage to build your Ultra/SpellCard meter. At least it isn't X-factor :V

Quote
- Some of the mechanics are annoying (whiff cancels, spell declare duration, popularity, time, etc)
I can agree with people disagreeing with the popularity thing. It's pretty annoying overall, but I liked that it wasn't RNG-based at least :V The timer is perfectly fine especially in high level, as time-outs don't happen that often, but it's the same as every other fighter minus Mahvel :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on December 24, 2014, 02:19:11 PM
Story mode was brought up, and in my opinion, I think they should keep individual character stories. Problem with one single story mode is that some characters can easily either get too much attention or too little attention. Branching paths might work, but only if they aren't just stupid to get.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on December 24, 2014, 02:32:36 PM
 
Really, it's the overreactions I'm getting tired of. Sure, the flight-based gameplay doesn't exactly facilitate high-low mixups, but I still appreciate the fact that they're trying something new. It just needs a fair bit of polish.
Also, I like Guilty Gear, I like BlazBlue, I like KoF, and also a fair bit of other quality fighting games. I also like HM. Am I insane? No. If I were, I'd be bottling it all up until I go nuclear here. There.

These games are pretty popular even among serious players, and also fairly easy to get into (except GG if your friends know how to play heh). It would be weird if you didn't like any of them even a tiny bit. :V

I don't know how well you play, how often you practice or if you play against good players, in any case you're entitled to have your own opinion, but one or a few unpopular opinions wont change what the majority thinks. Thinking a bit differently about something doesn't mean you're crazy. Everyone has their own unpopular opinions and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

Don't worry. SWR had the exact same reaction when it first came out from the initial IaMP fanbase. Last I remember they also bashed soku when it was also announced.

Eh, the general reaction to SWR from IaMP players has always been negative, and indeed some people didn't even bother trying it, but a good portion of the IaMP playerbase did give SWR a fair chance and some even played it for a few months before dropping it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 24, 2014, 02:37:49 PM
Unfortunately this is a trend in recent fighting games overall to help out newer players and also still give the losing players a chance. If anything, it's like Ultras in Street Fighter IV, as both requires you to take damage to build your Ultra/SpellCard meter. At least it isn't X-factor :V
Personally, I think comeback mechanics are okay as long as they don't hold the losing player's hand too firmly to the point of rewarding the player for "sucking". GGXrd's Hell Fire mode is probably a good example as it boosts your Overdrive damage but puts you at the risk of getting combo'd into an Instant Kill if the opponent is on match point. So essentially it gives you a chance to even the playing field, but it also has a risk factor attached to it.

I don't know how well you play, how often you practice or if you play against good players...
If I were to give you an idea...
- Actual pros
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
...and so on...
-
-
- me
-
-
- lolfilthycasul

Also I haven't been getting that much of a chance to practice because of blasted Win8.1 having issues with HM. One of these days I'm gonna move to a PC with Win7 after I get out of my current economical predicament.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 24, 2014, 02:54:37 PM
Personally, I don't really mind comeback mechanics and X-factors (I'd even say mixups are pretty much semi-RNG), but lack of character I really want to play and materials to learn really hurt my interest in HM.

Quote
The timer is perfectly fine especially in high level, as time-outs don't happen that often
It happens at least as often as in lower level play, probably more :(

Also, despite IaMP players' hate over Soku, I'm sure a lot of them plays it and Soku is still alive and kicking, unlike *cough* a certain hopeless game *cough*.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on December 24, 2014, 03:05:44 PM
Character Speculation:
 
All of HM characters
Satori, Orin and Utsuho( since Koishi is in HM )
Yukari
Yuyuko and Youmu ( since they are ghosts )
Flandre and Nue need to appear in more games
Mokou and Kaguya, Eirin and Reisen ( since they were planned for UNL )
Seija
Shinmyoumaru Sakuna
The Moriya Crew

I hope it has lots of characters
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 24, 2014, 03:11:21 PM
Personally, I think comeback mechanics are okay as long as they don't hold the losing player's hand too firmly to the point of rewarding the player for "sucking". GGXrd's Hell Fire mode is probably a good example as it boosts your Overdrive damage but puts you at the risk of getting combo'd into an Instant Kill if the opponent is on match point. So essentially it gives you a chance to even the playing field, but it also has a risk factor attached to it.

I'm okay with that kind of stuff yeah. There needs to be more risk involved with comeback mechanics. Unlike some comeback mechanics *cough*x-factor*cough*
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 24, 2014, 03:19:09 PM
Character Speculation:
 
All of HM characters
Satori, Orin and Utsuho( since Koishi is in HM )
Yukari
Yuyuko and Youmu ( since they are ghosts )
Flandre and Nue need to appear in more games
Mokou and Kaguya, Eirin and Reisen ( since they were planned for UNL )
Seija
Shinmyoumaru Sakuna
The Moriya Crew

I hope it has lots of characters

To be honest, I'm really hoping that the characters from HM don't make it in ULiL. I want to see a bunch of new characters in ULiL rather than eight of the characters being re-used from the previous fighter. I can understand Kokoro or Mamizou being re-used or something, but definitely not ALL of them.

Sure, it would be convenient for them because they would already have the sprites... I don't know, I won't really care THAT much if most of the characters would be re-used, all I'm saying is that I'm excited to see new characters being put in the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 24, 2014, 03:34:05 PM
Research: some sources of Rinnosuke's posters.
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3485574995

Some were pointed out by Japanese fans. For the rest, the poster used a clever method: by searching using the key words 昭和 看板 (Showa poster).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 24, 2014, 03:35:13 PM
I really hope Nue and Sukuna is getting in, I don't have a real favorite yet in 13.5. :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 24, 2014, 03:39:17 PM
To be honest, I'm really hoping that the characters from HP don't make it in ULiL. I want to see a bunch of new characters in ULiL rather than eight of the characters being re-used from the previous fighter. I can understand Kokoro or Mamizou being re-used or something, but definitely not ALL of them.
Personally, I see a 95.5% chance of all the HM characters making it into ULiL. The entire cast of IaMP did make it into SWR, which used pretty much the same sprites with minor touch-ups, didn't they?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 24, 2014, 03:46:17 PM
Personally, I see a 95.5% chance of all the HM characters making it into ULiL. The entire cast of IaMP did make it into SWR, which used pretty much the same sprites with minor touch-ups, didn't they?

Yeah, the chances are pretty high. But on the bright side, at least the HM cast would get gorgeous portraits drawn by Moe Harukawa (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure she's the artist for ULiL).

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 24, 2014, 04:48:57 PM
I saw "Touhou 14.5" and expected a nice christmas present. Instead I learn it's a sequel to the crapfest that was HM.... So disappointed... sooooo disappointed.... Sigh... -_- Thanks for nothing, Tasofro. Way to get my hopes up. Merry fucking christmas to you too...

Well... I hope someone enjoys it , at least. I know I won't. What's so complicated about this? Air-based fighters are terrible games. Ugh! No amount of "hur de hur hur spellcard system" or "magic fire thingie at the bottom of the screen" mechanics can change that. You can cover a turd in hot fudge and sprinkle marshmallows all over it but that's still a steaming pile of shit under all that interesting stuff - nobody's going to want to eat that!!

Fuck you Tasofro. From the depths of my heart. Fuck you hard.

Okay, I swear this game will have a ton of missed potential if the final boss isn't a Grinch youkai.

Personally, I see a 95.5% chance of all the HM characters making it into ULiL. The entire cast of IaMP did make it into SWR, which used pretty much the same sprites with minor touch-ups, didn't they?

Meiling didn't.  Not sure if she counts, though.

But yea, odds are pretty flarkin' good that all of the HM cast will make it in.  Or at the very least, most.  Not as much point to re-using your prior fighting game's assets if you aren't going to be re-using your prior fighting game's assets.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on December 24, 2014, 08:17:52 PM
A new air-only fighting game? Can't say I'm thrilled - a fair share of what made HM so kusoge was the aerial movement itself and the inherent problems it caused, notably:

-very slow gameflow in comparison to 12.3's fast-paced action due to the 8-way movement, floatiness, less bullets and difficulty at pinning down opponents

-popularity system - they *had* to somehow compensate for guard being nigh-impossible to break, so they WILL have to implement *some* heavy game-changing penalty for blocking in ULiL, lest everyone would just get a couple of hits and then turtle for the rest of the round (hope it's just some heavy weakening of guard durability as opposed to flat-out alternate win condition this time around though)

-jumping up and down necessitated getting rid of quarter-circle and DP motions, and subsequently the inclusion of the godawful 8-card direction decks from HM - having to take skills, spell cards, system cards, differences between skill directions AND faiths into consideration when building an 8-slot deck was far too much. I always ended up either never using half of the characters' options, never using system cards, not picking correct directional skills that turned out to be essential to the characters' gameplan after I've checked the wiki, being unable to set up both skills and faith that I wanted at once or being severely screwed by muscle memory when I tried to correct any of the above or to just experiment with options. Not to mention combo notation problems. Either set up fixed inputs like IaMP or SWR-style decks if you want me to play this.

Welp, luckily they can easily fix the lesser problems HM had - such as small roster, mere 3 spell cards per character, useless Last Words, poor code optimization or boring character mechanics (notably Koishi and Byakuren, who stick to a single skill 99% of the time from what I've seen on tournament vids - prolly due to their mechanics denying them the option to choose a correct skill for the situation on the fly).

Still, in my humble opinion most of the above need thorough adressing *in addition* to keeping the entire HM cast in and adding some popular characters such as Mima for this game to be remotely able to be a contender against Soku in the fanbase's eyes - *removing* characters from HM and replacing them with different ones instead of expanding the roster will be a deathblow to that end.

And the piano... welp, the randomness of it reeks to me of either SWRSoku's weather stupidity or HM's weird system cards. I just hope to god that's a minor option like the latter and not a central game mechanic. Then again, I'm not expecting anything this time around - I might even end up pleasantly suprised as opposed to HM's release.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on December 24, 2014, 08:32:06 PM
Yeah, there's a world of difference between legit criticism that actually makes points supported by an argument, and the kind of temper tantrum fuck-you-laden cries of entitlement from people who didn't get exactly what they wanted. And that's leaving aside how many of these folks weren't about to give ZUN their money anyway.

Make cogent points of criticism or stop bleating about your precious expectations that "ruined Christmas". You can do that on /jp/.
This. I stroll into the thread hoping for some discussion and well-written points of criticism, I come out thinking /r/leagueoflegends moved to MotK.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 24, 2014, 09:13:29 PM
Lol, I really hope, even with just 3 spells per character, spells that actually do something instead of just being reversal/combo move with different names.  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on December 24, 2014, 09:36:06 PM
Quote
Eh, the general reaction to SWR from IaMP players has always been negative, and indeed some people didn't even bother trying it, but a good portion of the IaMP playerbase did give SWR a fair chance and some even played it for a few months before dropping it.

Isn't that because you are separating between IaMP players and SWR players? I played IaMP and played SWR and I liked SWR more because of better controls and gameplay. I didn't like the spell card declaration system IaMP has. So, now I would fall under the SWR playerbase and not the IaMP playerbase?

@cast: I assume the Hopeless Masquerade cast will be there. I wonder who the new characters will be and how many they will introduce.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on December 24, 2014, 10:26:12 PM
Now that Nitori'and Byakuren are in, maybe there's hope for Mokou and Kaguya?

Quote
Meiling
Come to think of it, I wonder what it is that prompted Tasofro to bring Meiling back. Or was it that they wanted her in but needed a more convincing scenario and a more balanced moveset?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: sol35 on December 25, 2014, 12:33:58 AM
So Hopeless Mess gets a sequel huh? Oh well... I guess that's fine, some people liked it. More power to them, I guess. It just wasn't my thing. At least they seem to be fixing up a few of its problems so that's nice. I'm just going to sit this one out though. But I'm curious what the story will be about and what new character(s?) will be introduced. That could be interesting to see.

I was hoping this would be another shooter spinoff game like DS/GFW/StB/ISC or something though. Oh well. Maybe next one!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: not ZUNs wife on December 25, 2014, 01:15:14 AM
Sad to say, this is the first time I'm not excited about a new Touhou game. A "Touhou fighting game" was a fun novelty after transitioning to Windows, but by now like every second game is one of those, and fighting games aren't even my style. Still hoping to see a canon Touhou RPG as the new novelty thing, or at least more of those experimental bullet hells like StB, ISC, GFW...

Well, hate to complain about potentially good news, especially on Christmas. Hopefully some of you will play and enjoy this game in my stead! :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 25, 2014, 04:28:38 AM
Almost all, if not all of HM is likely to make it back.

Nitori will likely continue to be a douche, and fans of Nitori will still be divided into the MoF Nitori and SA/HM Nitori camps.

Keine's probably the most likely new inclusion (She's a school teacher, and a huge history buff. Urban legends (namely the seven horrors) play to both of her roles). Mokou and Keine are possible inclusions due to being on the cutting floor from SWR. Youmu scared of ghosts, so obvious pick, and by extension, Yuyuko. Someone from DDC'll likely make it in because DDC is new and shiny (my money's on sekibanki). Probably some random oddball pick too for fanserivce (maybe Yuugi?).

Newhu is very probably and is probably going to be universally liked (see suika, tenshi, iku, and kokoro).

Hopefully twilight frontier gets their shit together and the game isn't a horribly buggy mess at launch. They're using the same engine, so here's hoping.

Honestly people should just judge this game on its own merits instead of comparing it to SWR. Honestly, look at smash bros: smash 4 was built off the back of brawl instead of melee, and it's generally considered a pretty damn good game (competitively). Sure, ULiL won't be another SWR, and HM was frankly rather abysmal, but this game has a perfectly fine chance of being good (assuming that TF got their shit together).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 25, 2014, 04:42:01 AM
I would love to see Sekibanki in the game but of all the characters in DDC I'd say Kagerou or Raiko. Kagerou fits the role so well with her melee like spell cards, she's be so fun to play if it turns out like in my head. Raiko for the silly fact that a EX (technically 2 I guess.) has already been in HM so I'd love to see what she could do.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 25, 2014, 04:44:36 AM
True that Kagerou would be the 'obvious' pick from a gameplay standpoint, but ZUN usually prioritize whoever makes sense over gameplay mechanics. Then again who knows how big a say twilight frontier has in it (see: koifish's inclusion in HM, which was total fanservice).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 25, 2014, 05:27:01 AM
True that Kagerou would be the 'obvious' pick from a gameplay standpoint, but ZUN usually prioritize whoever makes sense over gameplay mechanics. Then again who knows how big a say twilight frontier has in it (see: koifish's inclusion in HM, which was total fanservice).

Koishi was the second most important person in the plot of HM? By contrast Futo and Ichirin had no role whatsoever.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 25, 2014, 05:29:18 AM
Koishi was the second most important person in the plot of HM? By contrast Futo and Ichirin had no role whatsoever.

So was the whole religion thing just a front that people used to take advantage of the issues? What was Koishi's role in it anyway?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on December 25, 2014, 06:01:11 AM
Mokou and Keine are possible inclusions due to being on the cutting floor from SWR.

It's for that reason that I'm hoping Wriggle gets in too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 25, 2014, 06:04:48 AM
So was the whole religion thing just a front that people used to take advantage of the issues? What was Koishi's role in it anyway?
She pretty much kickstarted the entire plot.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on December 25, 2014, 06:05:25 AM
Urban Legends? Can Nue make it plz? (I just want her for love of god.)
After that screenshot, I thought of Yukari.
Someone bring at least a person from the Moriya Shrine back.
Also, would like to see Mamizou (only because she was the only one I could combo with.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 25, 2014, 06:26:41 AM
She pretty much kickstarted the entire plot.

Wha-what!? Off to the wiki! (I'd prefer to play through it but I'm not there yet.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 25, 2014, 06:47:33 AM
She pretty much kickstarted the entire plot.
Yes and no. She didn't start it, although she was vital to the story. Hata no Kokoro dropped her mask into a fissure herself that let it fall into the underground, in which Koishi managed to find it herself (she didn't technically steal it). In the end she became important because she was unwilling to give back the original mask due to being emotionally attached to it (in the most literal way).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 25, 2014, 06:59:26 AM
Seeing people's opinions regarding HM keeps exceeding what I had in mind. The more I read through it, the more it surprises me.

To be honest, I'm really hoping that the characters from HM don't make it in ULiL. I want to see a bunch of new characters in ULiL rather than eight of the characters being re-used from the previous fighter. I can understand Kokoro or Mamizou being re-used or something, but definitely not ALL of them.

Sure, it would be convenient for them because they would already have the sprites... I don't know, I won't really care THAT much if most of the characters would be re-used, all I'm saying is that I'm excited to see new characters being put in the game.
So even if we get a lot of new characters, old or brand-new,  but also keeping the casts of HM, then it's not alright for you?
Though I'm expecting to see Yukari again because she's an urban legend in her own right, or adding the Prismrivers or Tsukumos

This is an ULiL discussion, right? Can we just start speculating on the game's story?

The prologue was in the 26th chapter of WaHH, with the man-faced dog. Haven't read it so I don't know how it ends, but it might be the same case as the Chupacabra.
But I have the suspicion that this might've been caused by one of the youma book in the Suzunaan. It would be kind of funny if the perpetrator is some famous urban legend book writer who sealed herself into her own book.


Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on December 25, 2014, 07:02:43 AM
Research: some sources of Rinnosuke's posters.
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3485574995

Some were pointed out by Japanese fans. For the rest, the poster used a clever method: by searching using the key words 昭和 看板 (Showa poster).

These kind of posters are weird, pretty kourindou indeed. Wonder if this time we will see more stuff that stepped from outside the border.
One thing I would like to see is a story mode that, like mentioned in earlier posts, could be different than the usual pseudo-arcade mode we get, I mean, for example some battles get a special gimmick in game.

Now that I think about it, the incident this time is related to controlling the urban legends but since these are easily modified, what if you get to do some pre-battle stuff? Like, you can add or remove details in your myth which (possibly) will change how you fight and etc. And what if even if you lose you can continue playing? Like you lose, but you only lose equipment or "legends", winning will let you gain additional equipment or stuff to use in battle?

Another thing it's bothering me is how is the cast gonna end? At least when HM was announced we already expected some of the cast, but this time it could be anyone. Will we see HM characters back? Since they said it is gonna be a new game then this game for individuality value would have a different cast (and for HM value too) because well, the HM characters have not much of a reason to get involved both story-wise and gameplay-wise (Some characters losing their special gimmick would be too plain, like Futo or Byakuren)

I have high hopes for this game, I loved HM so much and still if the Touhou's 10th anniversary is true (And taking into account ZUN said it was a good game), and ALSO the fact ZUN, Tasofro and Harukawa will be working on it then it's gonna be spectacular. Sure I love Danmaku games, I play them more than fighters (and I'm good at them) but I really like when a lot of characters get in one place, more on a fighter because we get to see more of them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 25, 2014, 07:20:33 AM
Yes and no. She didn't start it, although she was vital to the story. Hata no Kokoro dropped her mask into a fissure herself that let it fall into the underground, in which Koishi managed to find it herself (she didn't technically steal it). In the end she became important because she was unwilling to give back the original mask due to being emotionally attached to it (in the most literal way).

Is that why they are often paired up in artwork?
Koishi doesn't really have emotions because of what she did to her powers right? So her getting that mask must have been incredibly important for her I'm assuming.

Well for story in 14.5 obviously something is making these urban legends come to light making it an issue. With the story summary posted earlier with it saying something happened one day despite the girls keeping the urban legends under control. It's pretty easy to tell we are gonna get someone new who is connected with either controlling or manifesting these legends.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 25, 2014, 08:20:09 AM
Another thing it's bothering me is how is the cast gonna end? At least when HM was announced we already expected some of the cast, but this time it could be anyone. Will we see HM characters back? Since they said it is gonna be a new game then this game for individuality value would have a different cast (and for HM value too) because well, the HM characters have not much of a reason to get involved both story-wise and gameplay-wise (Some characters losing their special gimmick would be too plain, like Futo or Byakuren)

Since making sprites for a fighting game takes a lot of work, I think the odds of them not reusing most of the HM cast are pretty much zero. They might drop one or two, but I'd expect most of them to come back even if it doesn't make much sense. Remilia came back for SWR, for example, and her story was all about how she couldn't go outside and therefore couldn't interact with the plot in any way.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 25, 2014, 08:28:42 AM
Since making sprites for a fighting game takes a lot of work, I think the odds of them not reusing most of the HM cast are pretty much zero. They might drop one or two, but I'd expect most of them to come back even if it doesn't make much sense. Remilia came back for SWR, for example, and her story was all about how she couldn't go outside and therefore couldn't interact with the plot in any way.

Heck they might leave a few out in place for new ones but doing something like SWR and Soku and copy data to expand the roster for just mutiplayer.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 25, 2014, 08:55:50 AM
For people who don't want this game, I say you can just treat it as the next slightly expensive Touhou multimedia package, in the form of music, high definition artwork, character banter, and demonstrations of the characters' fighting styles.

Prediction-wise, I'm fairly satisfied with foreseeing the absence of Moriya in HM, and won't go crazy with prediction this time. My ideas are:

If HM is in major key, this game will be in minor key. Where HM's atmosphere is grandiose, bright and festive, ULiL's stages will be small, dark, and quiet.

The added characters will be connected to mundane horrors similar to urban legends. An example lineup: Hina (dolls and curses), Orin (corpse stealing), Kogasa (Boo!), Yoshika, Sekibanki.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 25, 2014, 09:03:39 AM
The added characters will be connected to mundane horrors similar to urban legends. An example lineup: Hina (dolls and curses), Orin (corpse stealing), Kogasa (Boo!), Yoshika, Sekibanki.

I would die of happiness if they where in, but I think I just say that about any character really lol. I just really want characters new in the fighting games to get updated art and story and see how they fight.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on December 25, 2014, 09:13:51 AM
Since making sprites for a fighting game takes a lot of work, I think the odds of them not reusing most of the HM cast are pretty much zero. They might drop one or two, but I'd expect most of them to come back even if it doesn't make much sense. Remilia came back for SWR, for example, and her story was all about how she couldn't go outside and therefore couldn't interact with the plot in any way.

Interesting, could be nice to see it that way, I would also love to see a story mode like SWR, in which everyone's story happened but in different time lapses (unlike in HM in which characters stories would go the order you unlocked them) because let me tell you I loved the HM cast.

For people who don't want this game, I say you can just treat it as the next slightly expensive Touhou multimedia package, in the form of music, high definition artwork, character banter, and demonstrations of the characters' fighting styles.

Yes, that's why I'm getting excited when any kind of media (games, CDs, books, manga) gets released, I simply love Touhou and anything will be accepted! I don't really understand why people are so negative about this, if they don't like the game they just don't play it and check out later story/music, etc...

If HM is in major key, this game will be in minor key. Where HM's atmosphere is grandiose, bright and festive, ULiL's stages will be small, dark, and quiet.

The added characters will be connected to mundane horrors similar to urban legends. An example lineup: Hina (dolls and curses), Orin (corpse stealing), Kogasa (Boo!), Yoshika, Sekibanki.

I was thinking the same, ULiL stages would be set in more small, quite enviroments, actually that's one of the things that excites me the most. Which kind of places will we see rendered in pseudo-3d?

Since ULiL is really youkai-ish I hope a lot of youkai make it to the game, I can see Seija, Shin, Sekibanki, Kogasa, Rumia or even the Prismrivers appearing. I also wonder which character will appear in the demo, back during HM we got Ichirin.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: notext on December 25, 2014, 11:36:28 AM
Possibly worth noting that only 3 existing Touhou characters were added from IaMP to SWR, plus two bosses, so I wouldn't expect more than 4 existing characters to make their way in. If they added in Parsee and Hina (references to whom were supposedly uncovered when digging through the HM code, although that could just be a nonsense rumour) plus two DDC characters (Kagerou is low hanging fruit, Sekibanki has potential, Seija and Shinmyoumaru could be very annoying boss-type characters) then that would be two characters from every main Touhou game from Mountain of Faith onwards, plus Mamizou, which seems to fit with HM's MO.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on December 25, 2014, 01:17:02 PM
Quote
Newhu is very probably and is probably going to be universally liked (see suika, tenshi, iku, and kokoro).

I don't know if Tenshi was universally liked, I get the feeling that some people don't like her.

Quote
The added characters will be connected to mundane horrors similar to urban legends. An example lineup: Hina (dolls and curses), Orin (corpse stealing), Kogasa (Boo!), Yoshika, Sekibanki.

Alice also deals with curses and stuff. There's also Kisume, but is that an urban legend?

Quote
Possibly worth noting that only 3 existing Touhou characters were added from IaMP to SWR, plus two bosses, so I wouldn't expect more than 4 existing characters to make their way in.

Yeah, let's hope they add more characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on December 25, 2014, 04:50:42 PM
I am going to guess that the new character for the game has the power to turn rumours to reality. A dangerous ability to have (just look at Persona 2).

Seija would also fit in, in the idea that the events start to change people's concept of what is real and what is lie.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 25, 2014, 09:02:15 PM
I'm going to be patient this time. When I predicted that Sukuna was going to appear last year was pretty random, so I'm not going to place any bets on who's going to appear  in UNiL compared to HM.

And guys, we only have three days until the demo!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 25, 2014, 09:07:35 PM
And guys, we only have three days until the demo!

I'm so excited for the demo! I'm practically drooling just thinking about it.  :getdown:

I wonder if the demo is going to feature Reimu and Marisa as the only playable characters, or a couple of others besides Reimu and Marisa?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 25, 2014, 09:09:23 PM
I'm so excited for the demo! I'm practically drooling just thinking about it.  :getdown:

I wonder if the demo is going to feature Reimu and Marisa as the only playable characters, or a couple of others besides Reimu and Marisa?

Maybe it's going to be like HM's demo, where Reimu and Marisa are playable, along with one or two other characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 25, 2014, 09:17:41 PM
Maybe it's going to be like HM's demo, where Reimu and Marisa are playable, along with one or two other characters.

Oh, that actually sounds very likely. If that's the case, then we'll find out who two of the characters are (besides Reimu and Marisa) in three days!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 25, 2014, 09:57:35 PM
Maybe it's going to be like HM's demo, where Reimu and Marisa are playable, along with one or two other characters.

The SWR demo had Alice and Aya while the HM demo had Ichirin. Part of the point of these demos is to show off a new character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 25, 2014, 10:35:33 PM
The SWR demo had Alice and Aya while the HM demo had Ichirin. Part of the point of these demos is to show off a new character.
Actually the SWR performance test only had Reimu, Marisa, and Aya, while the demo right before SWR's release included Alice, though feel free to correct on this because it's been a while since I last remember.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 25, 2014, 11:23:09 PM
Actually the SWR performance test only had Reimu, Marisa, and Aya, while the demo right before SWR's release included Alice, though feel free to correct on this because it's been a while since I last remember.

That sounds about right. I don't remember the particulars either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 25, 2014, 11:30:39 PM
Playable Kogasa would make everything forgiven for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 26, 2014, 04:04:44 AM
Plot-wise, I don't think everyone will return, because some of the characters don't strike me as someone who would want to obtain more power, like Byakuren and Koishi.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 26, 2014, 04:06:58 AM
Plot-wise, I don't think everyone will return, because some of the characters don't strike me as someone who would want to obtain more power, like Byakuren and Koishi.
Koishi could literally throw herself in any game if anything. All the reason she needs is, "while travelling around Gensokyo as usual, she found herself in the midst of the incident"

Actually, considering how Koishi lurks within the shadows a lot, she could become an urban legend herself because no one remembers her except for a select few, and so they only learn of her through rumors and such.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 26, 2014, 04:10:13 AM
Since WaHH is tied into this, I can see Kasen being playable.

The roster is more of a free-for-all this time around.  The last game was mostly restricted to characters associated with religions, but this time, anyone who wants more power can join.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 26, 2014, 06:04:28 AM
Plot-wise, I don't think everyone will return, because some of the characters don't strike me as someone who would want to obtain more power, like Byakuren and Koishi.
Well Byakuren might not, but would Miko? If so, then stopping her would be in Byakuren's best interest, I think.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 26, 2014, 06:57:04 AM
Plot-wise, I don't think everyone will return, because some of the characters don't strike me as someone who would want to obtain more power, like Byakuren and Koishi.

Byakuren loves power, she bragged about it in SoPM. "It's thanks to these youkai that I have so much power." Borrowing power from youkai is kinda her thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: DTM on December 26, 2014, 08:29:26 AM
Byakuren loves power, she bragged about it in SoPM. "It's thanks to these youkai that I have so much power." Borrowing power from youkai is kinda her thing.

Um... that sounds more like an explanation than pure bragging (Byakuren doesn't really strike as that type of character).

Anyways, if i comes to horrors and urban legends, Nue would be a likely character to appear, considering that she supposedly brings bad luck according to legend.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: notext on December 26, 2014, 09:05:15 AM
I would be quite surprised if any additional characters from UFO or Ten Desires were added, since those games are fairly well represented. I suspect the characters are likely to be added based on what they add to the game and to provide a broad selection of characters from different Touhou games first, and the story based on any general trends, rather than the other way around.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 26, 2014, 09:14:25 AM
Um... that sounds more like an explanation than pure bragging (Byakuren doesn't really strike as that type of character).

Anyways, if i comes to horrors and urban legends, Nue would be a likely character to appear, considering that she supposedly brings bad luck according to legend.

In context... I have no idea why she said something like that. Miko was insulting youkai, and her response was "but they gave me so much power!"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 26, 2014, 10:46:44 AM
In context... I have no idea why she said something like that. Miko was insulting youkai, and her response was "but they gave me so much power!"
That doesn't sound like she is bragging, but simply saying she got her powers from them.

Being a monk means to be humble and to detach yourself from desires such as power.  She would be a really bad example of a monk if she craves it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 26, 2014, 10:59:17 AM
That doesn't sound like she is bragging, but simply saying she got her powers from them.

Being a monk means to be humble and to detach yourself from desires such as power.  She would be a really bad example of a monk if she craves it.

You're completely ignoring the entirety of Byakuren's characterization if you think she's just "a good example of a monk". However, my point here is mostly that in context, what she said makes no sense at all. Why the heck would Miko care where she got her power? Frankly it sounds like she's trying to say youkai aren't evil because they give her power. IE: their moral value is related to them giving her power (specifically the power to be like a god or Buddha). So it can only make sense to say what she said if she's bragging. Not specifically about herself, although also that, but generally about the power of being a youkai.

Here's the quote I'[m talking about:

Quote from: Miko
I heard it was not just any temple, but a youkai temple full of youkai monks. A temple filled with such detestable, evil power...
Quote from: Byakuren
How rude. While it may be filled with youkai, those youkai are more sincere than humans. Just as humans can become hermits and celestials, youkai can become gods and Buddhas. My own power is also as vast as it is thanks to youkai.

You'll note that this does not address Miko's concern in any way, and in fact Miko's next line is:

Quote from: Miko
So you're a monk possessed by evil then.

So Byakuren associates power with virtue, but Miko doesn't. Ironic, isn't it? This was just supposed to be an off-hand joking comment, but my point is that Byakuren isn't entirely uninterested in these matters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 26, 2014, 12:25:06 PM
That "私の力も妖怪による処が大きいです。" part, actually sounds more like, "Most of my power are those of the Youkai".
So yeah, like game2011 said, she doesn't sound so much as bragging, but simply saying that's the source of some of her powers. A bit different, but still matters.
How you take it is up to you though. You may also see it as her just being honest.

As for the next line, yes, Miko is right. She was tempted by evil power. (By the way, that "possessed" is kinda wrong too, "tempted" is more like it. "邪に魅入られた僧侶")
No need to question that further.

Regarding motivation though, I'm not really sure where it was said that this incident attracts those who wants power, maybe somewhere in the prologue?
Nevertheless, Byakuren can join in simply to calm down and solve the incident, like she did in HM. This is also true for some other characters.

Though I'd love to see a playable Shou, Nue, Murasa, Kogasa, Seiga&Yoshika combi, etc; I guess it's better to have the casts of MoF and prior titles, to join with the casts of HM. Therefore we'll get a sizable roster, but still well balanced. Though I want 1 more from SA and anyone from the fighters is fine too. 
And another thing that also interests me, is character items.
That gap on the screenshot might be a Yukari item for all we know. It'd be interesting if we at least got more items to represent some of the characters that may not be included in the game. Though it'll be restricted only to some characters' due to the nature of their abilities.

Though one thing I kinda wish they add someday, is character support system or even straight out co-op. They've proven in HM that multiple characters on screen is possible after all. Just giving out ideas.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 26, 2014, 02:24:41 PM
At a random guess, I would say that maybe Sanae, Sakuya and Youmu will come back. Or not, but they're somewhat "main character-ish" so it's appropriate for them to show up anywhere. Youmu and Sakuya were also in shooting games somewhat recently. Other than that though, I wouldn't expect any of the important older characters like Remilia or Yukari. Like cuc said, this game feels more low-key than HM, so having the big players come out of the woodwork just seems totally inappropriate. For the same reason, I wouldn't expect anyone else from the Buddhist or Taoist factions. I would be very surprised if no one from DDC showed up.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 26, 2014, 03:03:21 PM
In today's end-of-year party stream, ZUN and Uni Akiyama said ULiL feels like an upgrade of HM. The controls have been tweaked to be less cumbersome. ZUN: "You can play it even if you never touched Shinkizakura" (his running joke about a typo of Touhou 13.5's name). So that's that.

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 26, 2014, 03:26:41 PM
Re: roster change, a topic from a few pages ago.

I got this from a Tasofro document that I promise you is not something I made up, even if I can't find the source now.

The thing about Meiling in IaMP is she was a special case, from a time when the Touhou canon was still being established. She was not planned for by ZUN;  Tasofro built her out of their own motivation, with little oversight by ZUN. Tasofro said you should treat her (inclusion and game design) in the game as basically non-canon; I think all ZUN did was writing her dialogue and skill names.

This would explain why her Soku version is the most ovettly different from IaMP of all characters. The Soku version would reflect ZUN's vision of the character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 26, 2014, 04:09:25 PM
Meiling was added due to her winning a Saimoe tournament iirc.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: LunaWillow on December 26, 2014, 05:06:36 PM
I'm one of the very few people that actually liked HM, so ULiL makes me happy too.  I hope that whole HM cast will made it (well, maybe without Nitori. I'll die if I'll need to beat her story mode again). Especially Kokoro and Futo. I also want Sekibanki and Keine to appear. And please, not Nue... I feel like she shoudn't be in this game. Kogasa too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 26, 2014, 05:24:32 PM
Personally, if there's anyone I want to see from DDC it'd be Kagerou, even if I can't really think of anything that could tie her into the plot. And if she has even a single reference to KoF13 Iori I'd main the shit outta her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 26, 2014, 06:19:37 PM
Personally, if there's anyone I want to see from DDC it'd be Kagerou, even if I can't really think of anything that could tie her into the plot. And if she has even a single reference to KoF13 Iori I'd main the shit outta her.

Unfortunately, the Iori Laugh is taken by Miko already
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on December 26, 2014, 07:42:50 PM
Re: roster change, a topic from a few pages ago.
The thing about Meiling in IaMP is she was a special case, from a time when the Touhou canon was still being established. She was not planned for by ZUN;  Tasofro built her out of their own motivation, with little oversight by ZUN.

That seems rather odd, considering Meiling is one character who'd fit a fighting game scene the most.

Quote
Tasofro said you should treat her (inclusion and game design) in the game as basically non-canon; I think all ZUN did was writing her dialogue and skill names.

Does this explain her story in Hisoutensoku then?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on December 26, 2014, 10:17:52 PM
Quote
That seems rather odd, considering Meiling is one character who'd fit a fighting game scene the most.

I think it is mainly because she isn't a stage 4+ boss. Outside of Cirno's inclusion in Hisoutensoku, all the fighting game characters have been stage 4+. Alice isn't in PCB, but she's EX in Mystic Square.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 26, 2014, 10:45:26 PM
Ichirin is stage 3, but yeah a lot of the playable fighting games characters are pulled from stage 4 to Extra. It makes sense however: those characters tend to be a lot more important, and more likely to get involved in future incidents where stage 1-3 characters almost always are just random girls Reimu and Marisa beat the shit out of while trying to find the real culprits for each incident  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 26, 2014, 11:34:47 PM
Not really sure what there is to even "not treat as canon" in the first place for Meiling in IamP given that she doesn't have a story mode.  At least what little storyline elements of her exist (the win quotes and skill names) were written by ZUN, though.

That seems rather odd, considering Meiling is one character who'd fit a fighting game scene the most.

Does this explain her story in Hisoutensoku then?

Meiling's a gate keeper.  She doesn't seem to get out very much.  ....like, ever, come to think about it.

Hisoutensoku's plot was one of the only ways Meiling could have a plot that wouldn't entail her leaving the grounds, really.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 27, 2014, 12:34:00 AM
Sakuya and Youmu have basically zero reason to leave their respective homes (especially since the SDM becomes a messy hellhole without Sakuya dedicating 72 hours a day to cleaning it) but they still keep showing up as playable.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on December 27, 2014, 01:17:18 AM
Quote
Sakuya and Youmu have basically zero reason to leave their respective homes (especially since the SDM becomes a messy hellhole without Sakuya dedicating 72 hours a day to cleaning it) but they still keep showing up as playable.

That seems like an exaggeration to me. Sakuya wanders around often enough doing miscellaneous tasks. You see her accompanying Remilia and by herself more than once in the mangas.
The same deal is true for Youmu. You also see her wander around often enough. By this I am not talking about just during the fighting games, but the mangas and other games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on December 27, 2014, 01:21:29 AM
Yeah, I think what Tiamat is getting at isn't who has or has not a reason to go anywhere, but who actually has, like, gone places and done things in canon.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 27, 2014, 01:24:26 AM
The other big difference is that, when compared to Sakuya and Youmu, Meiling's rank in the SDM is much lower than them. Sakuya and Youmu both act as the mistress's right hand lady, so if there's any problem they'd be the first to be sent out to figure out the problem.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on December 27, 2014, 05:14:13 AM
The other big difference is that, when compared to Sakuya and Youmu, Meiling's rank in the SDM is much lower than them. Sakuya and Youmu both act as the mistress's right hand lady, so if there's any problem they'd be the first to be sent out to figure out the problem.

Well in that case then shoudn't Ran for example or Reisen or Eirin do the same?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 27, 2014, 05:23:11 AM
ZUN just likes trolling us by making only Sanae, Sakuya, or Youmu playable alongside the main two. Still waiting on playable Shou or Futo, ZUN. They're stage 5 boss lackeys to some higher-stage boss too, ya know.

(I know it would never happen but damn it'd be awesome to have a STG 2hu game with Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Sanae, Youmu, Reisen, Shou, and Futo playable. I mean it would never happen because that's a fuckload of portraits to draw and a fuckload of dialogue to write, but damn it would amazing. Swap out Shou and Futo for Byakuren and Miko if you wish.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on December 27, 2014, 05:32:32 AM
I would welcome playable Futo in a shooter, in addition to Eirin and Sukuna. Especially Eirin. I think her shot types would be crazy, bacteria and pill bullets everywhere, some forward-focusing bomb from a giant arrow (?). With Marisa B from UFO's shot pattern. No idea why on that last one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on December 27, 2014, 05:44:32 AM
ZUN just likes trolling us by making only Sanae, Sakuya, or Youmu playable alongside the main two. Still waiting on playable Shou or Futo, ZUN. They're stage 5 boss lackeys to some higher-stage boss too, ya know.

(I know it would never happen but damn it'd be awesome to have a STG 2hu game with Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Sanae, Youmu, Reisen, Shou, and Futo playable. I mean it would never happen because that's a fuckload of portraits to draw and a fuckload of dialogue to write, but damn it would amazing. Swap out Shou and Futo for Byakuren and Miko if you wish.)

There's always the next "Phantasmagoria of ??"...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 27, 2014, 05:48:25 AM
Sakuya and Youmu go out in the canon all the time, not just in the shooter games but in the print works, too.  Sometimes of their own accord and sometimes because they were ordered to.

Meiling, when I think about it, has NEVER left the SDM in any print work or game.  My memory could be off but I can't think of a single case in the canon where she was not on SDM grounds, even as a cameo.

Ran is supposed to only act on Yukari's orders, which possibly limits what actions she can take. Of course, it's explicitly pointed out that she sometimes goes out on her own anyways (both in Perfect Cherry Blossom and BAiJR) but in general it's rare to see her out and about (but not unheard of) yet even rarer for her to take significant action on her own initiative (again, because she's not allowed to, unlike Sakuya and Youmu who appear to have a LOT of freedom).  It wouldn't be impossible for Ran though.

It's just Meiling who, again, I can't recall ever being off the SDM grounds in any official source.  I'm not saying she can't, but... there isn't any proof that she either can or will, either, what with her... well, never actually being seen off of them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 27, 2014, 05:53:55 AM
I would welcome playable Futo in a shooter, in addition to Eirin and Sukuna. Especially Eirin. I think her shot types would be crazy, bacteria and pill bullets everywhere, some forward-focusing bomb from a giant arrow (?). With Marisa B from UFO's shot pattern. No idea why on that last one.

I thought about Sukuna and Eirin, but the playable characters besides Marisa and Reimu are almost always stage 5 bosses: Sanae, Sakuya, and Youmu. That's why I picked Reisen, Futo, and Shou for my "Every Goddamn 2hu EverTM" cast.

There's always the next "Phantasmagoria of ??"...

Yeah, but I wanna see all these different characters interact with whatever new gaggle of girls ZUN comes up with.

[shoufanboyforlife]Also it would give Shou some popularity which she desperately needs [/shoufanboyforlife]
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Psyduckxoxo on December 27, 2014, 05:57:43 AM
great.... iam guessing that we have to wait for
a few more years before a good fighting game is
released. so diaspointed... :( sigh

Is anyone know if TF have other projects in the
works like are they planning to make other fighting
games with a different system than HM or is this all
we get until the next one in a few years?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: DTM on December 27, 2014, 06:07:50 AM
great.... iam guessing that we have to wait for
a few more years before a good fighting game is
released. so diaspointed... :( sigh

Is anyone know if TF have other projects in the
works like are they planning to make other fighting
games with a different system than HM or is this all
we get until the next one in a few years?

I can't believe you got early access to the game!  You think you can provide some gameplay footage for us?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 27, 2014, 06:10:59 AM
ZUN just likes trolling us by making only Sanae, Sakuya, or Youmu playable alongside the main two. Still waiting on playable Shou or Futo, ZUN. They're stage 5 boss lackeys to some higher-stage boss too, ya know.

The important thing isn't that they're lackeys, it's that they're part human. Youkai cause incidents, humans resolve them. I would never expect Shou or Orin or anyone full youkai to be playable alongside the main two in an ordinary shooting game. With their own side games like Aya or Seija, sure, maybe.

For reference, the youkai partners in IN weren't playable on their own, story wise. They just tagged along with their pet humans.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 27, 2014, 06:11:25 AM
Well in that case then shoudn't Ran for example or Reisen or Eirin do the same?
Reisen did appear in SWR though. Ran, however, isn't as free to act on her own compared to Youmu or Sakuya.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Psyduckxoxo on December 27, 2014, 06:11:39 AM
iam just asking a question there is no need to be rude :( i didnt like the style of HM and i just wanted to know if there was going to be something more `traditional' in planning because i dont keep up with TF often....

nevermind this was a mistake to ask, i see how things are here...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: DTM on December 27, 2014, 06:15:56 AM
iam just asking a question there is no need to be rude :( i didnt like the style of HM and i just wanted to know if there was going to be something more `traditional' in planning because i dont keep up with TF often....

nevermind this was a mistake to ask, i see how things are here...

I'm sorry for being rude (I'm just tired of people making judgements on a game that has yet to be released).  To answer your question, I don't think TF has anything traditional in the works for the near future.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on December 27, 2014, 06:21:23 AM
You didn't "just" ask a question. You said, and I literally quote:

iam guessing that we have to wait for
a few more years before a good fighting game is
released. so diaspointed... :(

In other words, you've made up your mind before the game's been released. Not "I don't see myself liking this if it's the same style as HM", but unequivocally "I guess this game is bad then". You don't get to type up things like this and then turn around and say other people are being rude or that "we" are just going to blindly praise TF in whatever they do just because you get criticized.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Psyduckxoxo on December 27, 2014, 06:30:32 AM
geez iam sorry i dont like air combat type fighting games i didnt know it was
forbidden here to feel that way but apparently it is. this place got really unfriendly.
just because i dont think the style of HM was good for me you jump down my throat
 and make a big deal out of my opinion being different from your own? what
happened to this place??? this is very elitist iam sorry i have a different opinion than
you people but you need to calm down and accept other people sometimes dont like
the things you like instead of attacking them!!!

coming here to ask about TF was a mistake. this place has become major
unfriendly... forget it. i never said anything, i never had a different opinion from
you, i never asked any simple question. now go ahead and nitpick every word
in my post and turn it into something personal or make assumptions about it...
thats apparently what this place has become.

just wonderful... just wonderful...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on December 27, 2014, 07:02:41 AM
Chill dude, you're still totally welcome here. I'm not "attacking" you by criticizing your post. I didn't like HM either and I don't have super high expectations for ULiL, so you'd be mistaken in thinking your opinion differs from mine at all. Even if it didn't, having an opinion isn't wrong. I didn't post because you have a different opinion, but because you presented it by saying it would be bad when all we have is "it's the HM engine" and a single screenshot, rather than just saying that you didn't like HM. Regardless, don't think that my posts represent the whole forum. That's silly, especially since this thread is full of people who disagree pretty vehemently.

To answer your question, it doesn't make much sense for them to be working on several games at once. That being said, we can't know what they're planning to do years down the road, either. This project might be of smaller scale than HM, and they might put out new works pretty soon. I don't see them making yet another completely new fighting game immediately after this, though.
Just look at the pattern of their previous major releases:

Immaterial and Missing Power (2004)
Super Marisa Land (2005)
Megamari (2006)
Patchucon (2007)
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody (2008)
Touhou Hisoutensoku (2009)
New Super Marisa Land (2010)
DynaMarisa 3D (2011)
Grief Syndrome (2011)
Satori's Emotional Education (2012)
Hopeless Masquerade (2013)
Shoot Shoot にとり (2014)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on December 27, 2014, 10:00:34 AM
There's always the next "Phantasmagoria of ??"...
Which, if ZUN sticks to 3 + 6n, will hopefully be the next game.

(And I'm really itching for a new, updated Phantasmagoria.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hatateru on December 27, 2014, 02:12:49 PM
Is it wrong that I'm more hyped for the story and new character(s) than the game itself?

I've never ever had any complaints with the games, but somehow getting new instalments and world building simply tickles me pink~
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Espadas on December 27, 2014, 02:45:13 PM
Read through the entire thread in one swoop and...... uh, guys? What's up with the angry posts? Shouldn't we simply be HAPPY that we are getting a new game?
I understand that to some being a sequel to HM might sound like bad news but at least wait until you TRY it before judging!

No one can know beforehand how a sequel will be compared to the original. 2 opposite examples:

Star Wars's first trilogy vs second trilogy (despite the enormous hype, and the fact that i LIKE the second trilogy, i freely admit that some parts are worse than the original)
Street Fighter 1 vs Street Fighter 2 (need to comment?  :V)

Quote
Is it wrong that I'm more hyped for the story and new character(s) than the game itself?
I've never ever had any complaints with the games, but somehow getting new instalments and world building simply tickles me pink~

While i'm more equal part interested in the story/character and the gameplay you are right. Some fights in the shooters (Yuyuko, Utsuho, Byakuren etc..) get a big boost in awesomeness just because of the background story or their characterization. Heck, Utsuho's fight lives off the fact that you are basically in Hell and avoiding THERMONUCLEAR NUKES from a crazed crow  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on December 27, 2014, 03:03:09 PM
Some fights in the shooters (Yuyuko, Utsuho, Byakuren etc..) get a big boost in awesomeness just because of the background story or their characterization. Heck, Utsuho's fight lives off the fact that you are basically in Hell and avoiding THERMONUCLEAR NUKES from a crazed crow  :D

And the music. The music always helps. I wonder if Reimu and Marisa (and any other returning characters) will keep their HM themes or get new ones.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SacredWind on December 27, 2014, 03:06:23 PM
Wow, this thread got angrily elitist in a hurry... -_-

Seriously guys, lighten up. This place is starting to look pretty bad....
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on December 27, 2014, 03:07:32 PM
just wonderful... just wonderful...

Wow, this thread got angrily elitist in a hurry... -_-

For some reason we need to have this conversation with the release of every game, sometimes multiple times per thread, but here it is again: Everyone is indeed allowed to have their own opinion, and that includes challenging the opinions of others. That's how freedom of speech works. Further, there is a world of difference between criticism and baseless, entitled whining, and the latter is a lot more likely to draw strong opinions from others than the former. Literally no one is saying that everyone is obligated to be super hyped about this game and can say nothing negative about it. You'll notice that people who made criticisms about what they found wrong about HM were absolutely allowed to express themselves without worry.

I mean sorry you were expecting your opinion to go unchallenged, but that's not a very realistic expectation to have in the first place. Calling people who disagree with you "elitist" isn't helping, either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SacredWind on December 27, 2014, 03:19:23 PM
I mean sorry you were expecting your opinion to go unchallenged, but that's not a very realistic expectation to have in the first place.
Calling people who disagree with you "elitist" isn't helping, either.
Seriously, there's a major difference between "challenging an opinion" and "angrily picking apart their post and chasing them away for not feeling the same way".

There does not seem to be much room for opinions in this thread judging by that earlier exchange. Last I checked, that's what elitism is. Clearly english wasn't the poor guy's first language and he got railed for asking "Oh hey, I didn't like HM, is Tasofro working on anything else?" I don't know how that's "being allowed to express oneself".

All I'm saying is, there's no need to pounce on people who aren't totally swept away by this announcement. Nor to defend that kind of behavior. Someone not liking HM isn't going to make Tasofro pull this game -- there's no reason to chase them away angrily like everyone needs to glorify this game or it won't get made.

Meh. I don't care. I'm just curious which characters will be in this. But seeing this kind of open hostility and seeing it defended leaves a sour taste in my mouth... -_-
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on December 27, 2014, 03:39:03 PM
Seriously, there's a major difference between "challenging an opinion" and "angrily picking apart their post and chasing them away for not feeling the same way".

There does not seem to be much room for opinions in this thread judging by that earlier exchange. Last I checked, that's what elitism is.

Wrong. Let me say it again: if you drop into a thread - like you did, for example, yelling "fuck you" and essentially accusing ZUN of ruining your Christmas - you're expressing a very strong opinion there. Expect a strong reaction from others, and either be ready to back it up or shrug and move on. Unless you don't want your opinions to ever be challenged, in which case I'm sorry to disappoint you but people disagree with each other around here.

All I'm saying is, there's no need to pounce on people who aren't totally swept away by this announcement. Nor to defend that kind of behavior. Someone not liking HM isn't going to make Tasofro pull this game -- there's no reason to chase them away angrily like everyone needs to glorify this game or it won't get made.

You're creating a false dilemma where none exists. Once again, literally no one is telling you that you can only have one opinion of this game. You're again ignoring the people who picked apart HM for all its terribleness, point by point, who were not at all "pounced on" as you put it. Why? Because they didn't come roaring into this throwing a temper tantrum but rather, they made great, cogent points.

Looking over this thread, I see people both hyped and underwhelmed about this game. The only people who seem to be upset about "elitism" are the people who were hoping to apparently just be able to make their howl of rage without any disagreement. And that's a shame, because it disrupts what could otherwise be a great discussion.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Espadas on December 27, 2014, 03:58:01 PM
SacredWind, just to show you what Tengukami is pointing out:

Quote
Don't get me wrong, Im not saying it will. Im saying if it does, then this will be disappointing. =) It's way too soon to speculate right now -- it just seems like the likeliest of scenarios, that's all.

I wish theyd just go back to the earlier system (SWR/Soku), iron out the problems people had with it, and add more recent characters to the lineup, personally..... If the game turns out like that, Im totally stoked! But if it turns out like HM? Meh...... it would be disappointing to see another craptastic fighter from tasofro....

Well just have to wait and see. =)


Different is fine. When the changes work. To me, HM was just.... bad. =( Aerial combat, the short timer, the one-button-special-moves, the popularity system, etc. I just didn't find myself enjoying any of it. The only thing I felt it had going for it was being able to customize your moveset (soku could have used that instead of its oh-so-reliable card system/replacement moves....)

Quote
I saw "Touhou 14.5" and expected a nice christmas present. Instead I learn it's a sequel to the crapfest that was HM.... So disappointed... sooooo disappointed.... Sigh... -_- Thanks for nothing, Tasofro. Way to get my hopes up. Merry fucking christmas to you too...

Fuck this. It's christmas. I don't need this kind of disappointment. I have a family to be with. -_- Merry christmas to everyone, try not to let this kick in the balls by Tasofro bring you all down.

Quote
The only people who say this are fanboys who can't handle someone criticizing their favorite thing.

Sorry I hurt your fee-fees

Do you see the differences? All 3 are negative posts about the new game, but the TONE is completely different.

The first one explain why he doesn't like it, the second one is basically a rant, the third is literally just for flame.
While the first one might get a civil response, the other 2 will NEVER get anything good as answer, because they are not good to begin with.

 ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 27, 2014, 04:10:11 PM
>Drake drops Tasofro's game list

You forgot Higurashi Daybreak (w/ expack), and another Ryukishi07 collaboration, Natsu no Kagerou, which is apparently the secret shame of Tasofro, since they only released a demo and never finished it.

>fighting game characters tend to be Stage 4+

That's mostly down to that ZUN sees Stage 1-3 (i.e. the demo) as a game's first half, Stage 4-6 as the second half. The second half tends to have actually important characters. But this is not an absolute rule, and "unimportant" characters like Ichirin and Nitori do get the spotlight possibly due to the variety they bring.

For IaMP, the one that actually stands out is Patchouli, the only one not playable in IN. Since according to the IN demo document (my favorite "key to understanding early Touhou" doc), ZUN laid the plan for IN's 8 playables when conceiving PCB, and Alice was introduced in PCB specifically so she can be Marisa's partner. This importance is the deciding factor that ensures her place in IaMP.

>The Tasofro site IP block

People have inquired Unabara about it, and he seemed surprised. Perhaps the IP block was pure ISP policy; in that case, there's hope they may ask the ISP to remove it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SacredWind on December 27, 2014, 04:15:08 PM
I fail to see what this has to do with the latest attack on what I'm assuming is now an ex-member.

Whatever. This is clearly one-sided so I'm not going to bother. It's sad to see what the fanbase has turned into, is all I'm saying. Enjoy your game and your "great discussion".
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on December 27, 2014, 04:20:31 PM
I'm amazed you consider any of that an attack (for real - calling any part of that brief exchange an attack or bullying is hyperbole at best and hugely unfair to those who responded), and a real shame you're dismissing and ignoring points explained to you in good faith, but rest assured the state of the fandom will survive this thread.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 27, 2014, 04:26:42 PM
Whatever. This is clearly one-sided so I'm not going to bother. It's sad to see what the fanbase has turned into, is all I'm saying. Enjoy your game and your "great discussion".
Can I offer advice? Just ignore this stuff. At this point all that mostly remains in this thread are supporters of the game and there's little room left for well-received opposing views. When the opinions of the majority center around the same thing, bullies emerge and stop seeing themselves as doing anything wrong anymore, sad to say. It's just human nature. Anyway, I'm just saying don't make one person's mistreatment into something personal or let it reflect on the state of the forums at large. Do like the rest of us: watch and see what the character roster and story will comprise of, then once your curiosity is satisfied just go on with your life like this game never happened. =) You're not going to fix the world's problems by getting yourself riled up over this issue..... you'll just make enemies.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on December 27, 2014, 04:28:08 PM
That's mostly down to that ZUN sees Stage 1-3 (i.e. the demo) as a game's first half, Stage 4-6 as the second half. The second half tends to have actually important characters. But this is not an absolute rule, and "unimportant" characters like Ichirin and Nitori do get the spotlight possibly due to the variety they bring.
I think the stage 1-3 characters all have changes to show up. It just depends on how they'll get involved in the story. Like how Wriggle was considered for Touhou Hisoutensoku.

I?m exited for this game. Definitely can?t wait for the new music! Even though HM feels young, the demo version already came out two years ago.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 27, 2014, 04:32:36 PM
Ahhh yep music I wish they could redo the miracle of SWR themes. I feel that SWR main theme and Tenshi's themes are really good, compared to HM and Kokoro's.

Kokoro's might sound nice at first but then IMO it's only because ZUN used nice instruments, her theme isn't really good for remixes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 27, 2014, 04:33:33 PM
Is it wrong that I'm more hyped for the story and new character(s) than the game itself?

I've never ever had any complaints with the games, but somehow getting new instalments and world building simply tickles me pink~

I'm this way for every new Touhou game.

Course, I'm more into RPGs than fighting or shooting games.

I think the stage 1-3 characters all have changes to show up. It just depends on how they'll get involved in the story. Like how Wriggle was considered for Touhou Hisoutensoku.

I?m exited for this game. Definitely can?t wait for the new music! Even though HM feels young, the demo version already came out two years ago.

Hisoutensoku in general was supposed to consider lots of early stage characters (kinda a shame that it only ended up with Cirno and Meilling out of that).

Hisoutensoku's story was also low-key to go along with that.  It was kinda a lower-deck episode in general compared to the stories of other games that are grander in scale (IE, most other games have stuff that influence or threatened to influence all of Gensokyo.  Or in UFO's case, delved behind the philosophy of it.  Hisoutensoku's storyline only influenced all of Gensokyo in the inflated imaginations of the protagonists :P).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 27, 2014, 04:39:26 PM
According to the IN demo doc, Wriggle is notable for being fairly strong (for such a low-tier character).

And re: ZUN's big "introduce teams for the third game" plan, the question I'm most curious about is if he had the plan when creating Rin Satsuki. If he did, who would be the partner? Could that partner be someone in EoSD?

It may take a few more years for us to know the answer.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Monkeypro257 on December 27, 2014, 09:01:50 PM
I don't usually post anymore, but I couldn't help but see Urban Legend in Limbo be a sequel to HM. I'm fairly disappointed in that, but I'm seeing high expectations in this new upcoming game! :D (I just hope some new returning chars. will appear or just new.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on December 27, 2014, 09:46:53 PM
>Drake drops Tasofro's game list

You forgot Higurashi Daybreak (w/ expack), and another Ryukishi07 collaboration, Natsu no Kagerou, which is apparently the secret shame of Tasofro, since they only released a demo and never finished it.
No I did that on purpose lol

Seriously, there's a major difference between "challenging an opinion" and "angrily picking apart their post and chasing them away for not feeling the same way".

There does not seem to be much room for opinions in this thread judging by that earlier exchange. Last I checked, that's what elitism is. Clearly english wasn't the poor guy's first language and he got railed for asking "Oh hey, I didn't like HM, is Tasofro working on anything else?" I don't know how that's "being allowed to express oneself".
excuse me did you even read my posts
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ILikeBulletZ on December 28, 2014, 01:44:43 AM
...


Another fighter?...


Well, I hope its at least NOT anything like HM. I honestly think that is the worst Touhou in existence, fighter or not.

But, seeing as it is indeed a sequel of sorts to HM...


Hope they at least make a fair amount (as in a LOT) of improvements to it. At least go back to the previous fighter?s style- I also don't really enjoy them all that much, but at least they show some potential and its OK for messing around from time to time!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Polaris on December 28, 2014, 02:40:27 AM
I really liked Hopeless Masquerade so I'm pretty excited for this game to come out. The graphics in HM are really pretty and it's really a step up from the earlier fighters. I liked the customization in it more than in SWR or 12.3 because of the Shinto/Buddhism/Taoism thing, since that added variety to the normal moves on top of the special moves, and I had a lot of fun changing the religion on each character to see what was different and how that would affect combos. I'm doubting that something like that will make a return due to the theme of ULiL being different, but the "using different urban legends" thing might prove to be interesting for customization.

I guess one of my biggest complaints with HM would be that it's easy to get bored with it after a while: the character roster felt limited, the AI was poor, and the netplay was iffy, so it was hard to play with others and it would get boring simply playing on your own. Of course, those are all obvious improvements to look for in ULiL: more characters are going to be added, and the AI and netplay will (hopefully) be better. The one thing I really want in ULiL is an arcade mode, since HM didn't have that. There's a surprising world of difference between beating everyone up one after another without interruptions and having to select a character in VS CPU mode between each battle.

I'm wondering if, as a sequel to HM, ULiL is just a sequel in spirit (same engine, similar gameplay) or if it's going to be a legit sequel in story, too, with HM somehow being the cause of the events in ULiL. Either way, I'm hoping that the entire HM character roster returns, and if it follows the same pattern as SWR, it'll have 3 existing characters and 2 new characters. The only one I'd really like to see again is Sanae, since in WaHH it was mentioned that she was getting restless after not taking part in HM/DDC, so it wouldn't be unnatural if she showed up now. No clue on the others.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 28, 2014, 02:45:00 AM
Considering how Shinkiroll was kind of a bust I hope we get a Shinhiroll out of this.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 28, 2014, 07:07:13 AM
Has anyone ever inquired Unabara about how derp HM netcode is :D ?
We really need Shinhiroll or whatever it is now, I hope someone who can cares enough to do this, because I haven't gotten anywhere with my lack of hacking skills...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: LunaWillow on December 28, 2014, 09:07:39 AM
I hope, that ULiL will improve story mode a little bit. After some time it was just boring. For most character it looked like: "beat some characters, then Mamizou, then Kokoro". Same goes with IaMP, with the exception of beating Yukari and Suika. In SWR, not every character fought Tenshi. Story modes were also on diffrent timelines - before the incident, long after the incident. That's what I liked about SWR. I hope ULiL will have it too. 

I wonder how will new character portraits/sprites look like. Especially newcomers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 28, 2014, 10:13:29 AM
Has anyone ever inquired Unabara about how derp HM netcode is :D ?
We really need Shinhiroll or whatever it is now, I hope someone who can cares enough to do this, because I haven't gotten anywhere with my lack of hacking skills...
Thing is, HM's netcode was made mostly for Japan only (and same with SWR and soku's original netcode). Considering how small Japan is compared to NA in general, and how their target audience is Japan only, it's understandable that it's pretty bad at far distances, however this netcode suffices more than enough within Japan itself.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 28, 2014, 10:22:27 AM
Thing is, HM's netcode was made mostly for Japan only (and same with SWR and soku's original netcode). Considering how small Japan is compared to NA in general, and how their target audience is Japan only, it's understandable that it's pretty bad at far distances, however this netcode suffices more than enough within Japan itself.

It's possible they might try and improve the netcode this time, I'm pretty sure Zun now knows how popular his game is around the world, that may get to Tasofro to make it better. I would assume so anyway. With the many changes Touhou offical and fanwork have seen in terms of digital releases to overseas attention, they might put more worth in the netcode. But I barely know what I'm talking about, just second hand info and observation.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on December 28, 2014, 10:51:09 AM
I think the reactions to this announcement can be summarized as either "Yay! More Touhou!" or "Oh god, not another Tasofro fighting game".  I kinda skew towards the latter, though in my case, I'm tiring of tasofro's formula. 

What I'd like to see in ULiL:

* An bigger roster ESPECIALLY AT LAUNCH.
-- Even for an indy dev, a roster of only 10 characters, 8 of which were initially playable, in this day and age is kinda pathetic.
--- (Lab Zero is excused because they were cranking graphics to ridiculous levels for a 2D game)

* More new characters THAT AREN'T END GAME BOSSES.
-- PFoV gave us Aya and Medicine, and re-introduced Yuuka.  Why can't tasofro ever do the same?

* Do something different with story mode.
-- Ever since IaMP, the formula has essentially been the same in terms of storytelling AND gameplay.
--- Story mode has always been arcade-like.  It's out-of-date and boring.  They should consider branching paths like original Melty Blood and/or a singular narrative like Injustice (chronological) or DOA5 (anachronistic).
--- Every stage in every game has been the same damn thing.  Fight opponent, then fight them again as they use "boss"-type spellcard with a pre-set pattern. Give us something new.

* Make a competent AI.
-- I highly doubt I'll ever play multi-player.  Give me SOMETHING so that this game has some replayability.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on December 28, 2014, 11:01:28 AM
* More new characters THAT AREN'T END GAME BOSSES.
-- PFoV gave us Aya and Medicine, and re-introduced Yuuka.  Why can't tasofro ever do the same?

Pretty sure that's not for tasofro to decide. New characters and story are after all still by ZUN. Sure, that opens the question of why ZUN doesn't want to add more new characters in the fighters, but I assume the pattern of letting existing characters that wouldn't appear again in any other way get some screentime is his preferred way with these games instead of creating many new ones.

Then again, I would say having two completely new characters like in SWR would be pretty great already.

Also, it's much easier to create more new characters for a game like PoFV than for a fighting game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 28, 2014, 12:57:12 PM
- PFoV gave us Aya
Aya first appeared in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red, so she's not really a new character in Touhou 9.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Peachems on December 28, 2014, 02:25:06 PM
As for ULiL, I'm mainly just excited for the characters and music. The biggest problems I had with HM were the popularity system and the central air gravity thing. I believe aerial fighters can be done better than that, so I hope ULiL will succeed in that, and it appears the popularity system has been changed as well.

When I look back, IaMP was my very first touhou game. When I replayed it a long while after having experienced SWR and soku, it felt incredibly clunky to me. Therefore, I hope this will also be the case with ULiL compared to HM, in that the movement feels a lot better.

As for characters, I'm hoping for a lot of playable youkai, most notably Orin, since she's a stage 5 boss that's a youkai and has never appeared playable as of yet (andbecausefavoritecharacter) and otherwise Wriggle, Yamame, Medicine, that kind of characters (maybe even Raiko as she is a tsukumogami) though Nue would be most logical I suppose, as her DS spellcards revolved around Urban legends a lot. Shou would be nice too since she hasn't appeared yet either though I can't really imagine a good reason for her.

We'll see! I'll probably be surprised to see any new character really. Before HM, I didn't like Futo one bit, but her HM aestetics and behaviour made me like her more.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on December 28, 2014, 04:05:55 PM
If Koishi returns as a playable character, i hope Satori or Orin and Utsuho are in it. But, please read this quote from the story:

" Reimu and company have assumed the rumors that fit them, and treat the anomalies as their playthings. As long as one can control the rumors without being afraid, the manifested anomalies can be rendered harmless. More than that, they can be turned into powers of one's own"

From this we can assume characters like Sekibanki will appear. Satori might appear when you take into consideration she is a feared sealed youkai, same for Koishi, Orin and Utsuho, but + for Orin because she steals corpses from cemitaries. I honestly think either Suika or Yuugi will appear, or a member of the 4 devas of the mountain never before seen! On another note, i hope the popularity system isn't in this game, i never understood it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 28, 2014, 05:05:25 PM
If Koishi returns as a playable character, i hope Satori or Orin and Utsuho are in it. But, please read this quote from the story:

" Reimu and company have assumed the rumors that fit them, and treat the anomalies as their playthings. As long as one can control the rumors without being afraid, the manifested anomalies can be rendered harmless. More than that, they can be turned into powers of one's own"

From this we can assume characters like Sekibanki will appear. Satori might appear when you take into consideration she is a feared sealed youkai, same for Koishi, Orin and Utsuho, but + for Orin because she steals corpses from cemitaries. I honestly think either Suika or Yuugi will appear, or a member of the 4 devas of the mountain never before seen! On another note, i hope the popularity system isn't in this game, i never understood it.

Those rumors don't deal with the girls themselves but if you read earlier it talks about the outside worlds urban legends and how the girls are aware of them since they are manifesting in gensokyo. Potential PC can use those legends as power, we could get sekibanki but not because of who she is but what she is doing with the rumors she has.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on December 28, 2014, 07:20:26 PM
Tomorow we will finally discover how the girls will use the urban legends! :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 28, 2014, 09:45:09 PM
* Do something different with story mode.
-- Ever since IaMP, the formula has essentially been the same in terms of storytelling AND gameplay.
--- Story mode has always been arcade-like.  It's out-of-date and boring.  They should consider branching paths like original Melty Blood and/or a singular narrative like Injustice (chronological) or DOA5 (anachronistic).
--- Every stage in every game has been the same damn thing.  Fight opponent, then fight them again as they use "boss"-type spellcard with a pre-set pattern. Give us something new.

I don't mind the boss spellcard system because it's supposed to be imitating the shooting games. That's kinda the whole point of the spellcard duels and ties the series together. I'd also greatly object to any kind of branching story system because this isn't a visual novel: there's a chronological set of events happening that I want to be able to keep track of. For example HM's plot, which is probably the best plot told within a Touhou game (not the manual), wouldn't have been possible with a branching storyline. I don't see how that would add anything meaningful.

What I wouldn't mind though is cutting out the ability to choose characters at the start. The whole "Futo's storyline" thing ruins it, imo. That just sort of draws things out by forcing everyone to fight nearly everyone else for no reason at all. It ends up being... filler I guess. A fighting game where they were willing to switch the playable character based on the plot and have more of the fights be interesting or relevant might be interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on December 28, 2014, 10:39:10 PM
Ahhh yep music I wish they could redo the miracle of SWR themes. I feel that SWR main theme and Tenshi's themes are really good, compared to HM and Kokoro's.

Kokoro's might sound nice at first but then IMO it's only because ZUN used nice instruments, her theme isn't really good for remixes.

That's enterely personal and related to ZUN as he makes the composing of such themes, but I think themes are more apreciated when you give them a meaning. At first I didn't liked Kokoro's theme but once you realize that such theme describes the entire despair she is irradiating to having lost her hope then it makes it a masterpiece. Just like Tenshi's theme became an avatar for all the tension every character had against her.

Speaking of the music, I was a bit disappointed HM didn't had more "ambient" music, like, if I remember correctly SWR OST had two discs, one of arranges for each character's theme and the other was the ambient music and special battles. I mean, if we can get something like Swift Battle or Demistify Feast that would be great, HM had only a few pieces and it made story mode so repetitive. Oh, and about story mode...

* Do something different with story mode.
-- Ever since IaMP, the formula has essentially been the same in terms of storytelling AND gameplay.
--- Story mode has always been arcade-like.  It's out-of-date and boring.  They should consider branching paths like original Melty Blood and/or a singular narrative like Injustice (chronological) or DOA5 (anachronistic).
--- Every stage in every game has been the same damn thing.  Fight opponent, then fight them again as they use "boss"-type spellcard with a pre-set pattern. Give us something new.

Yes, I agree. Tasofro has been re-using the same arcade mode formula, it's always the same, fight 4 opponents (Which could be Reimu/Marisa), fight a special opponent, fight a character that will appear on everyone's story mode then fight the new character.

What I loved from SWR is the story mode, for example in Aya's story mode the final fight is Reimu while on Remilia's it's Yukari, I'd love to see that not all characters meet up or end up fighting the same characters, differents lenghts are appreciated too because if I recall correctly Remilia and Tenshi had the most fights in their respective story modes. I think that would be nice, because most story modes for characters in HM that were not Koishi or the religious triad get boring and just become fillers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 29, 2014, 12:48:43 AM


* Do something different with story mode.
-- Ever since IaMP, the formula has essentially been the same in terms of storytelling AND gameplay.
--- Story mode has always been arcade-like.  It's out-of-date and boring.  They should consider branching paths like original Melty Blood and/or a singular narrative like Injustice (chronological) or DOA5 (anachronistic).
--- Every stage in every game has been the same damn thing.  Fight opponent, then fight them again as they use "boss"-type spellcard with a pre-set pattern. Give us something new.

Since Tasofro's games are kusoges already, and since they snuck by a bunch of random fanservice in to HM, they might as well go full-pandering and make a swimsuit/onsen bonus story after you beat all the main routes. I mean, they already gave Byakuren jiggle and Futo the shortest goddamn skirt in 2hu history

Okay but to get serious I'd like for the story to get more meat. I mean we're probably not gonna have Blazblue-level length here, but I'd like for each pre-battle fight to be more than just:

"Man what the hell be going on"
"Yo the fuck you doing here"
"I dunno lol"
"A'ight I guess we can beat the shit out of each other for no reason"
*FIGHT*
"Well that did absolutely nothing to help me"

For like three fights and THEN it becomes:

"I have accomplished literally nothing from this besides graitutiously assaulting random women"
"'Sup, oh and [INSERT_GRATUITOUS_INFODUMP_HERE]"
"Goddamn woman you expect me to read all that shit"
"Whatever let's just beat the hell out of each other"
*FIGHT*
*ENDING*

Like, I know that's how the shooting 2hu games go (first three stages have nothing to do with the plot, then all of a sudden the dialogue becomes thrice as long while the bosses talk the PC to death), but that doesn't mean they have to follow it...

They don't even need to hire VA's. Surely they can write more substantial dialogue scenes, it's not like they spend dev time actually testing and bugfixing the game as HM's glitch-ridden release shows :V

And since I'm on an ArcSysWorks kick here: I'd love to see some unique pre-battle animations for certain duels like Reimu vs Marisa or Miko vs Byakuren. And, even though this will NEVER happen, versus themes. Where's my kickass Byakuren vs Miko theme dammit  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 29, 2014, 01:31:57 AM
It was Kasen.
(http://mar.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419815868610.jpg)


Hype?  HYPE!!!
(Good news, eh, Clarste?)

Finally we will get her theme song.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on December 29, 2014, 01:32:24 AM
ALL OF MY MONEY
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Soul Devour on December 29, 2014, 01:37:25 AM
WOW

I AM HYPE

ULiL confirmed for GotY?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 29, 2014, 01:40:51 AM
Oh oh god please be real! Please let her be playable!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 29, 2014, 01:42:38 AM
I almost passed out from seeing that poster of Kasen.

ULiL, HERE I COME!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on December 29, 2014, 01:44:27 AM
https://twitter.com/kuroi_tansan/status/549375239042256896

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 29, 2014, 01:47:54 AM
https://twitter.com/kuroi_tansan/status/549375239042256896

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Was just about to post that.

I've never been this hyped before.  :getdown: :getdown: :getdown:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 29, 2014, 01:49:31 AM
https://twitter.com/kuroi_tansan/status/549375239042256896

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The post is deleted? Leaked info perhaps?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on December 29, 2014, 01:51:52 AM
You sure it's deleted? Still seems to be active to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 29, 2014, 01:54:55 AM
Quote
Sorry, that page doesn't exsist.

Damnit twitter always getting in my way. What's in the post?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 29, 2014, 01:55:45 AM
Damnit twitter always getting in my way. What's in the post?
(http://i.imgur.com/liyY8S5.png)
playabale kasen


aaaaaaa
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 29, 2014, 01:59:23 AM
茨木華扇 詮願いを訊く仙人
Ibaraki Kasen "Hermit who Listens to Wishes"

ZUN answer to the fans?
Why,  thank you.

Anyway, the versus screen makes it look like a poster, so maybe the characters have rumors for each their own?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 29, 2014, 02:02:37 AM
>Kasen
Nameless drill command normals or GTFO. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ILikeBulletZ on December 29, 2014, 02:12:47 AM
Since Tasofro's games are kusoges already, and since they snuck by a bunch of random fanservice in to HM, they might as well go full-pandering and make a swimsuit/onsen bonus story after you beat all the main routes. I mean, they already gave Byakuren jiggle and Futo the shortest goddamn skirt in 2hu history

Okay but to get serious I'd like for the story to get more meat. I mean we're probably not gonna have Blazblue-level length here, but I'd like for each pre-battle fight to be more than just:

"Man what the hell be going on"
"Yo the fuck you doing here"
"I dunno lol"
"A'ight I guess we can beat the shit out of each other for no reason"
*FIGHT*
"Well that did absolutely nothing to help me"

For like three fights and THEN it becomes:

"I have accomplished literally nothing from this besides graitutiously assaulting random women"
"'Sup, oh and [INSERT_GRATUITOUS_INFODUMP_HERE]"
"Goddamn woman you expect me to read all that shit"
"Whatever let's just beat the hell out of each other"
*FIGHT*
*ENDING*


I just wanted to say, this is the best summary of Touhou Plots that I have seen, AWESOME!!! LMAO.



And I literally don't know who this Kasen character is or anything but really, all I want is a decent, enjoyable fighting game...is that so much to ask for?

Plus I am a FILFTY CASUAL when it comes to fighter games not named Smash Bros... I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaay lower standards than most hardcore players, yet HM was a big fail even for me!....

I will try to appreciate this for what it is- an entire new game. But, its kinda hard to do when its obviously based of HM..

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Byxis on December 29, 2014, 02:19:48 AM
I just wanted to say, this is the best summary of Touhou Plots that I have seen, AWESOME!!! LMAO.



And I literally don't know who this Kasen character is or anything but really, all I want is a decent, enjoyable fighting game...is that so much to ask for?

Plus I am a FILFTY CASUAL when it comes to fighter games not named Smash Bros... I have waaaaaaaaaaaaaay lower standards than most hardcore players, yet HM was a big fail even for me!....

I will try to appreciate this for what it is- an entire new game. But, its kinda hard to do when its obviously based of HM..

I don't play Touhou Fighters either. I just get hyped for the music. Smash on the other hand...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on December 29, 2014, 02:32:20 AM
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv204993060

Stream is live now
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 29, 2014, 02:43:12 AM
Hoooh, an alternate Last Word with the Occult Ball? Seems story mode exclusive
Nah, cut that out.

>Kasen
Nameless drill command normals or GTFO. :V
Actually, she has a drill kick.
But, wow, Kasen brings out circus. And she knows Kung-Fu (Meiling BLOCKED?). Other most apparent one is her use of wind and even tornado. Her SC, Dragon's Growl, is making a dragon shaped wind from her hand and roars.
(http://sep.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419822087052.jpg)
LW is using the dragon arm after blowing them away with a tornado.
(http://aug.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419820464587.jpg)
(http://feb.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419820434872.jpg)
And her winpose is lecturing, just perfect.
(http://jan.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419823539556.png)
One thing I find weird is why is she using her bandaged "arm" like a whip(MASTER ASIA), pretty much showing that it's empty. Does it mean she's no longer hiding it?

Marisa's Last Word.... smacks you into the (ghost-infested) toilet and lock you up  :derp:
(http://svc.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419821686381.png)
(http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419821371415.png)
I think it's safe to say that each character from HM will have different LW, and now they're more comical


Anyway, enough with the characters, let's talk about the game and its elements, additions, changes, and stuff. Remember that this is only out of obersvation from the livestream. I probably misunderstood something or even missed it. And it's still only the trial version.

General stuffs
Gameplay is mostly unchanged, though it's quite noticeable that it's harder to combo now and for some reason guards became harder to break(Unless it's a string of really tight attacks or combos, it just won't break). And barrier guard(blue sphere) is still strong.
It seems that there are no longer red stun, only blue. However, it seems that unless you don't tech out of it(uncertain, since he's against AI) you will automatically get to blue stun state.
Color palette still there.
The fires in the lower middle of the screen is you spirit gauge, akin to Soku. It reduces as you shoot projectiles and use skills. Blocking doesn't seem to affect it though.
Each character only have one SC, out of 3 selection that you choose in the character select screen.
You still declare your spellcard, but I can't seem to notice any timer or the sort(probably just missed it), or it's the meter depleting. Also, SC no longer connects after the enemy is stunned, so keep an eye on the stun rates.

Special Gimmicks
Now is the ULiL exclusive Occult Ball System.
Every time someone makes a significant combo, wallslams, or stunned the opponent, some purple balls will come out and flies to the timer on top. It's not clear how much is needed, but at a certain time (60, 30, etc.) the Occult Ball will "activate" and starts a 10 seconds countdown before it triggers some kind of weather effect, kinda like in Soku.
During it, the occult ball will spawn into the battlefield and interact with the "anomalies". Not all of them affect the characters, but they all definitely affect the ball.
What I've seen:
They seem random, but I can't say for sure. Maybe character reliant or stage reliant.
Anyway, while it's active, your job is to get to the ball and touch it, giving you 1 point, which is showed around the ball. The maximum is 7 and you're competing with the opponent on who has more points. The winner will acquire the ball and the number of the ball can be seen under the timer. 1P is red and 2P is blue.
The one who has 7 of them, will be able to use the "怪ラストワード" (Strange Last Word?) that will finish the opponent no matter what if it lands. 

However, that only applies in normal matches. In Story Mode it functions differently.
After the opponent enters their spellcard mode like usual, an Occult Ball will appear among the opponent's attacks. What you do is the same, get close and grab it. Earn 7 and you can use the LW to end the fight.
Another thing, the Occult Balls seems to function like an item card when used. It'll summon one of the 7 Mysteries of school at random. Piano crashing, Painting shooting laser from the eyes, Statue running frantically...

New(?) Character Teaser
And for the last(or mid?) boss, we got a figure with an ominous dark aura, sounds haughty, and sports a cape.
(http://svf.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419821311593.png)
Miko got competition.
(http://jul.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419821595892.jpg)
Appearance wise, it seems to have a horn, or maybe a skeleton in her silhouette.
Or perhaps it's just Seija.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on December 29, 2014, 02:57:48 AM
THAT MARISA LAST WORD AHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 29, 2014, 03:00:29 AM
Holy fuck that char select screen has Persona 4 Arena's "BIG-ASS FLASHY LETTERS KANJI" style down near-perfectly. Please tell me the rest of the UI is that swag  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sedrife on December 29, 2014, 03:49:54 AM
The demo CD image is out.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5_ErVQCEAAfuWC.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 29, 2014, 03:55:39 AM
Holy fuck that char select screen has Persona 4 Arena's "BIG-ASS FLASHY LETTERS KANJI" style down near-perfectly. Please tell me the rest of the UI is that swag  :V
The main art motif of HM was "newspaper"; for ULiL, they are going full in with a Showa-era pop poster style. Showa-style fonts everywhere.

The character titles are in Showa tagline style:

Kasen
脅威!願いを訊く仙人
Menance! The Hermit Who Listens to Wishes
Kasen seems to utilize her own powers.

Reimu
神秘!結界の巫女
Mystery! The Shrine Maiden of Kekkai (Boundaries)
Reimu's power focuses on invoking secret domains of the world:
1. The Pyramids: Both side's Occult Special Attacks are enhanced to maximum power.
2. Stonehenge: The playfield becomes gradually narrower.
3. Babel Tower: Touching the Occult Ball causes it to attack the opponent (?)
4. Yomotsu Hirasaka: Reduces stamina the closer one is to the stage center [the penalty is much greater than Soku's Scorching Sun]
5. Nazca Ground Painting: When touching the Occult Ball, one's stamina will [cut off]
6. Hell Valley [a volcanic scenic spot in Hokkaido]: Turns the bottom of the screen into a damage zone.
7. Lunar Capital: Reduces bullet speed (affecting [cut off]

Marisa
恐怖!学校の魔法使い
Horror! The School Magician
Marisa's power comes from the schoolyard legends.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 29, 2014, 04:06:52 AM
Fluttery cape?

A pointy bit?

Game about spooky ghosts?

Mima confirmed.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on December 29, 2014, 04:10:50 AM
Holy fuck that char select screen has Persona 4 Arena's "BIG-ASS FLASHY LETTERS KANJI" style down near-perfectly. Please tell me the rest of the UI is that swag  :V

Great, now the Velvet Room remix is playing in my head. Also, YES for playable Kasen. I guess this means she'll finally get her own theme. Can't wait to hear it.

As for that silhouette, I can't even fathom a guess as to who it is. Maybe Wriggle? I dunno, I'm thinking they have the most random, unexpected character donning this badass looking cape.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on December 29, 2014, 04:15:57 AM
I'm amused, but not surprised that Marisa's power comes from schoolyard legends!

And yeah, quite happy to see Kasen in this.  Half because of the WAHH chapter, but half because it's just cool when sidestory characters get shown in official games (like the 3 Fairies having a role in Fairy Wars).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 29, 2014, 04:20:30 AM
Edit: never mind, the picture earlier didn't show up for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 29, 2014, 04:21:41 AM
I'm amused, but not surprised that Marisa's power comes from schoolyard legends!

And yeah, quite happy to see Kasen in this.  Half because of the WAHH chapter, but half because it's just cool when sidestory characters get shown in official games (like the 3 Fairies having a role in Fairy Wars).

I'm more hyped for the music in this, but Kasen being playable makes Kozuzu AFAIK the last print work character to not appear at all in a game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on December 29, 2014, 04:24:24 AM
I'm more hyped for the music in this, but Kasen being playable makes Kozuzu AFAIK the last print work character to not appear at all in a game.

Actually, Kosuzu's in the background of the Human Village stage in HM.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 29, 2014, 04:26:00 AM
I'm more hyped for the music in this, but Kasen being playable makes Kozuzu AFAIK the last print work character to not appear at all in a game.

(http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/0/01/Th135Kosuzu.png)
nah see shew as in HM, just as background. as did mofoin' rinnosuke (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:Th135Rinnosuke.png) which leaves akyuu, reisen (the not udogen inaba one), and the mary sue wonder sisters as the print work characters to not show up in a game
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 29, 2014, 04:31:04 AM
Akyuu, the Watatsuki Sisters, Reisen 2, Usami, Renko, and Tokiko haven't appeared in the games yet.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on December 29, 2014, 04:35:40 AM
Akyuu, the Watatsuki Sisters, Reisen 2, Usami, Renko, and Tokiko haven't appeared in the games yet.


Don't forget Maribel.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 29, 2014, 04:38:14 AM


Don't forget Maribel.
Mistakenly assumed that Usami and Renko are different people...  Should be Maribel and Renko...

Thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 29, 2014, 04:38:49 AM
As for that silhouette, I can't even fathom a guess as to who it is. Maybe Wriggle? I dunno, I'm thinking they have the most random, unexpected character donning this badass looking cape.
There's no guessing.... It's a new character. The main antagonist is always a new character. This, and the Phantasmagoria every x + yN game pattern, are the only patterns to hold up time and time again. =)

Seems my guess was right: every character does have a unique gimmick, it's just less in-your-face as it was in HM (ie, no unique meter/icons/whatever). Well... it doesn't make up for the floaty-air-fighting nonsense, for me, but it'll be interesting to see how the cast makes use of this. Neat, I guess. Any word on how spellcards are handled? (ie, IaMP-style, like others have guessed at?)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on December 29, 2014, 04:43:55 AM
There's no guessing.... It's a new character. The main antagonist is always a new character.

Oh, I didn't realize then that it was supposed to be the final boss. Nevermind.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 29, 2014, 04:50:58 AM
Honestly, the game seems pretty like poison for fighting game players. All the worst parts of HM and SWR together lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Soul Devour on December 29, 2014, 04:59:26 AM
Maybe it's like multiplying two negative numbers; you end up with something positive!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 29, 2014, 05:02:33 AM
Honestly, the game seems pretty like poison for fighting game players. All the worst parts of HM and SWR together lol.
Yeah I'm honestly not all that thrilled with the new BALLS system. I don't think people were too thrilled with the weather system in SWR already...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 29, 2014, 05:12:38 AM
The main art motif of HM was "newspaper"; for ULiL, they are going full in with a Showa-era pop poster style. Showa-style fonts everywhere.

The character titles are in Showa tagline style:

Kasen
脅威!願いを訊く仙人
Menance! The Hermit Who Listens to Wishes
Kasen seems to utilize her own powers.

Reimu
神秘!結界の巫女
Mystery! The Shrine Maiden of Kekkai (Boundaries)
Reimu's power focuses on invoking secret domains of the world:
1. The Pyramids: Both side's Occult Special Attacks are enhanced to maximum power.
2. Stonehenge: The playfield becomes gradually narrower.
3. Babel Tower: Touching the Occult Ball causes it to attack the opponent (?)
4. Yomotsu Hirasaka: Reduces stamina the closer one is to the stage center [the penalty is much greater than Soku's Scorching Sun]
5. Nazca Ground Painting: When touching the Occult Ball, one's stamina will [cut off]
6. Hell Valley [a volcanic scenic spot in Hokkaido]: Turns the bottom of the screen into a damage zone.
7. Lunar Capital: Reduces bullet speed (affecting [cut off]

Marisa
恐怖!学校の魔法使い
Horror! The School Magician
Marisa's power comes from the schoolyard legends.
Oh, then it seems my guess is wrong about the anomalies. So it's just exclusive to Reimu? Then I wonder how you can gather it with other characters?
Where did you get the text file?

Anyway, I'll just copy some of the updates from my previous post. Remember that it's merely an observation.


Hoooh, an alternate Last Word with the Occult Ball? Seems story mode exclusive
Nah, cut that out.

Anyway, enough with the characters, let's talk about the game and its elements, additions, changes, and stuff. Remember that this is only out of obersvation from the livestream. I probably misunderstood something or even missed it. And it's still only the trial version.

General stuffs
Gameplay is mostly unchanged, though it's quite noticeable that it's harder to combo now and for some reason guards became harder to break(Unless it's a string of really tight attacks or combos, it just won't break). And barrier guard(blue sphere) is still strong.
It seems that there are no longer red stun, only blue. However, it seems that unless you don't tech out of it(uncertain, since he's against AI) you will automatically get to blue stun state.
Color palette still there.
The fires in the lower middle of the screen is you spirit gauge, akin to Soku. It reduces as you shoot projectiles and use skills. Blocking doesn't seem to affect it though.
Each character only have one SC, out of 3 selection that you choose in the character select screen.
You still declare your spellcard, but I can't seem to notice any timer or the sort(probably just missed it), or it's the meter depleting. Also, SC no longer connects after the enemy is stunned, so keep an eye on the stun rates.

Special Gimmicks
Now is the ULiL exclusive Occult Ball System.
(http://oct.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419821291790.png)
Every time someone makes a significant combo, wallslams, or stunned the opponent, some purple balls will come out and flies to the timer on top. It's not clear how much is needed, but at a certain time (60, 30, etc.) the Occult Ball will "activate" and starts a 5 seconds countdown before it triggers some kind of weather effect, kinda like in Soku.
During it, the occult ball will spawn into the battlefield and interact with the "anomalies". Not all of them affect the characters, but they all definitely affect the ball.
What I've seen:
They seem random, but I can't say for sure. Maybe character reliant or stage reliant. (As of cuc's post it seems that it's Reimu-exclusive) Nope
Anyway, while it's active, your job is to get to the ball and touch it, giving you 1 point, which is showed around the ball. It also carries on between matches. The maximum is 7 and you're competing with the opponent on who has more points. The winner will acquire the ball and the number of the ball can be seen under the timer. 1P is red and 2P is blue.
The one who has 4 of them, will be able to use the "怪ラストワード" (Strange Last Word?), and the more balls you have, the stronger it becomes. At 7 it's almost twice as strong.

However, that only applies in normal matches. In Story Mode it functions differently.
After the opponent enters their spellcard mode like usual, an Occult Ball will appear among the opponent's attacks. What you do is the same, get close and grab it. Earn 7 and you can use the LW to end the fight.
Another thing, the Occult Balls seems to function like an item card when used. It'll summon one of the 7 Mysteries of school at random. Piano crashing, Painting shooting laser from the eyes, Statue running frantically... (Seems to be Marisa-exclusive)
(http://mar.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419820880507.png)



And like cuc said, it seems like a HM-based engine with IaMP like SC use and SWR/Soku Weather system. Whether it'll be great or not can only be said once you played it.
Overall, this seems interesting, but there are some things that I'll have to be picky with.
Guards too strong, that you wish there's a throwing attack.
The auto-stun seems annoying.
But at least the AI is somewhat better(?). They use spellcard for real this time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 29, 2014, 05:25:38 AM
The nico stream showed part of the text file, which I captured.

I was mistaken about Pyramids etc being Reimu's power. It's a new "Mystery Spot" system tied to Occult Balls, not Reimu-exclusive. In other words, it's the return of weather.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on December 29, 2014, 05:34:06 AM
Wow, this is so confusing...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 29, 2014, 05:42:26 AM
Oh, I see. So it's a system effect after all. But Marisa has a unique one, I wonder what Reimu and Kasen have?
We'll see. By the way, there's the day 1 patch as usual.

And the fans being the fans, they cannot help but notice this
(http://svd.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419821169951.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 29, 2014, 06:01:59 AM
And the fans being the fans, they cannot help but notice this
(http://svd.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419821169951.jpg)
Kogasa confirmed! =)
(Either that, or the lamp from A Christmas Story has entered Gensokyo. And been recolored.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sahuaro on December 29, 2014, 06:10:09 AM
Wow.. I was expecting IaMP mechanics (the spellcard one) but SWR?... why!?
I hope that at the very least, this time around these things are not as intrusive and disruptive as SWR weather was.

Also, nowhere exited about hearing that combos are harder yet blue-shield still stupidly strong. Why on earth would you make it harder to shield-break on an engine that already has a hard time breaking shields!? Thats one of the few things I condemn HM for... do we have grabs at least now? if not, what a retarded decision. Against the lack of mix-ups, only strong pressures make up for guards... people already complains about how hard it was to break shields and get into combos because of the rubber-band effect of air-figthing, now its only going to give them fodder...

Also, I dont like strange gimmicks in fg, however... given I understood nothing on how this one works still, I?ll give it the benefit of the doubt. As I said, so long as it is not as disruptive as SWR was.

Thank god it is the demo and not the final version. If they screw up here, they have time to fix it before the final release.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sedrife on December 29, 2014, 06:38:39 AM
Marisa is way too naughty in this game.

http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1419822240680.webm
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on December 29, 2014, 06:40:31 AM
>Weather

Told ya'll it was gonna be a kusoge  ::)

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 29, 2014, 06:41:58 AM
Just a shot in the dark, but i'm guessing they decided to port weather back for a chain of logic somewhat like this.

SWR = weather. SWR also = popular.

HM = no weather. HM also = no popular.

If you're tasfro, and you want to make up for the shitfest that was HM (assuming JP hated it too), what do you do? add in systems you know people like. who knows, maybe weather is really popular among the JP or something, but it was a core part of the fighter that was popular, so, again, not hard to see the logic.

and again this could be 100% wrong.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 29, 2014, 06:46:29 AM
Game is already torn apart by haters...

Do we even know how well 13.5 did in Japan?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: sol35 on December 29, 2014, 06:48:23 AM
Told ya'll it was gonna be a kusoge  ::)
Yet nobody listened..... :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 29, 2014, 06:54:30 AM
Yet nobody listened..... :(
Because not everybody are haters (like me). :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 29, 2014, 07:15:19 AM
Calm thy knee jerking. Honestly the occult ball system doesn't seem like weather now that I've had a chance to play with it. More so than anything else, it SEEMS to force aggressive play, and is undoubtedly an attempt to combat the floaty, guardy complaints people have about HM. I'm not sure how well the system will work out in practice, but messing around with it a bit, given that you get a bonkers benefit for getting (7 it seems?) occult balls, i'm guessing this 'alternate win condition' is going to force a lot more aggressive play, given that you can get a control point both from touching, AND from hitting the ball.

or who knows, guards might still be impossible to ever break.

edit: also seriously it's only out on the field for like 5~ish seconds at a time yall overreacting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 29, 2014, 07:47:31 AM
Honestly, if anyone even bother to discover, the game is really good outside some of the new stuffs which I can't really understand yet.
The movement mechanic and others have been improved greatly by adding highjumps and landcancels etc, the game are closer to Soku.

I haven't discovered anything like pushblocks/border escape to combat strong blockstrings (am I missing something?). Blockstrings currently look very nice in this game and people would most likely like it.

The remaining problems are whether the game would have enough skill curve to enjoy learning, I can't tell yet.

EDIT: It's closer to IaMP than to soku.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Polaris on December 29, 2014, 07:58:46 AM
Z is attack, X is projectile, C is special. If you hold C, you can use the occult skill. Reimu's occult skill is the gap, Marisa's is the school's mysteries, Kasen's is the monkey's paw. You need occult balls to use your occult skill, and if you get hit while you're using it then you'll lose an occult ball and your opponent gains one.

Occult balls appear every now and then, and there'll be a countdown when it's about to appear. There will also be a "Mystery Spot" (pyramids, Tower of Babel, etc.) that will affect you and the occult ball in some way (making the occult ball harder to obtain). The occult ball and Mystery Spot stay on for five seconds, and you have to touch it more than your opponent does to gain the occult ball. Touching it means your sprite must overlap, not hitting it with a projectile or anything.

Spell cards can be declared with A once your meter is filled. Press A again to use them. You can only use Last Words if you have four or more Occult Balls. Press A and C together after declaring to use.

Edit: fixing incorrect information
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on December 29, 2014, 08:16:22 AM
Man I can't stop brainstorming what this new antagonist could be up to. My guesses are that she uses rumors to become stronger; the more people believe in said rumors, the more they manifest and give her power.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 29, 2014, 08:21:40 AM
Making a really dumb claim here but I'm making the call on the new "Boss"; with Kasen's involment in this it got me thinking about something that's never been fully solved yet in the touhou lore, the Four devas. Suika and Yuugi are two of the four, but Kasen is just rumored to be one amongst people. The silhouette having a horn shape is whats really making me lean towards this but if Suika AND Yuugi are playable, I'm calling the boss to be the Fourth deva with an ability related to these rumors and legends.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on December 29, 2014, 08:36:07 AM
Kasen is finally playable, that's neat.

Marisa is way too naughty in this game.

http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1419822240680.webm
Hey, at least this was a girls cabin.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koneko on December 29, 2014, 08:50:12 AM
Hey, at least this was a girls cabin.

As if all the ghost in the girl's cabin are girls ;)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: iK on December 29, 2014, 09:24:21 AM

General stuffs
Gameplay is mostly unchanged, though it's quite noticeable that it's harder to combo now and for some reason guards became harder to break(Unless it's a string of really tight attacks or combos, it just won't break). And barrier guard(blue sphere) is still strong.

Glad for this. Getting guard crushed seemed to happen far too often in Hopeless Masquerade. It's adding injury to insult when you get to eat a combo from a crush in addition to taking a massive hit to popularity when blocking. Without the popularity system and with stronger blocks, it will hopefully be a nice change to be able to press back for two seconds and not lose the match for it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on December 29, 2014, 09:38:17 AM
And the fans being the fans, they cannot help but notice this
(http://svd.2chan.net/dec/55/src/1419821169951.jpg)
It is ok, that is what being fan is for. Otherwise it aint fan service. We all knew what happened to Byakuren. I am surprised they made Kasen modest where normally she is portrait plentyfull.

Time to polish up my fighting skills it seems. Been really long time I took the fighters serious.

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on December 29, 2014, 09:44:44 AM
So what do Reimu's and Kasen's Occult abilities do precisely?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Formless God on December 29, 2014, 10:50:42 AM
The game seems slightly faster than before from what I've seen
on Youtube's 360p30
.
I was hoping they'd ditch the floaty euroshmup gameplay, but eh.

And wow, Moe's art looked fine in monochrome but here it's just a badSekaiju.
Should've gone with the Fairy Wars artist.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 29, 2014, 11:07:32 AM
Should've gone with the Fairy Wars artist.
Matsukura's artstyle makes characters look plump, so I'll pass.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 29, 2014, 11:33:45 AM
So what do Reimu's and Kasen's Occult abilities do precisely?

The early reports were a misrepresentation: they don't have specific abilities. It's more like the weather in SWR, stuff just happens on its own. While that stuff is happening, you fight for control over the orb, and whoever gets more control absorbs it when it expires. Four orbs lets you do your Last Word.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on December 29, 2014, 11:42:37 AM
The early reports were a misrepresentation: they don't have specific abilities. It's more like the weather in SWR, stuff just happens on its own. While that stuff is happening, you fight for control over the orb, and whoever gets more control absorbs it when it expires. Four orbs lets you do your Last Word.

I didn't mean it quite like that. Like if Marisa summons bunch of school myths, then what kind of stuff can Reimu and Kasen do in regards to what they have? Like I really doubt that Reimu can only summon gravemarkers with her boundaries.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 29, 2014, 11:55:08 AM
I didn't mean it quite like that. Like if Marisa summons bunch of school myths, then what kind of stuff can Reimu and Kasen do in regards to what they have? Like I really doubt that Reimu can only summon gravemarkers with her boundaries.
Reimu can only summon gravemarkers out of the gap.
Kasen uses the monkey hand to grab you.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on December 29, 2014, 11:57:36 AM
I didn't mean it quite like that. Like if Marisa summons bunch of school myths, then what kind of stuff can Reimu and Kasen do in regards to what they have? Like I really doubt that Reimu can only summon gravemarkers with her boundaries.

Marisa doesn't summon a bunch of school myths, she just does the bathroom thing.

The only urban legend related skills the characters get is their Last Word, which you earn by collecting Occult Orbs. In fact, it's not even a real Last Word, they call it a Kai Last Word and instead of having a spellcard name it gets an excited sounding description, like a poster tagline. Marisa does the bathroom thing, Kasen uses the monkey's paw, etc.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Formless God on December 29, 2014, 12:24:21 PM
I played 10 rounds of Kasen. It might just be the character but physical combos are hard to pull off. You have to be very close and the pushback seems more obnoxious than before.

You can only touch the ball during an advantage.

Ball sounds cool on paper, but it's not even worth chasing after because of how floaty movement is in this game. You can just stay right where you are pressuring the shit out of your opponent so the ball ticks your color whenever it does decide to pass by your vicinity.

Effects are random. Yes, it is the weather system everybody longed for, how exciting. I got the black hole FOUR times in a row. Basically the "press A twice to win" mode.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on December 29, 2014, 01:06:47 PM
Are Reimu, Marisa and Kasen the only characters in the demo?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 29, 2014, 01:29:30 PM
Are Reimu, Marisa and Kasen the only characters in the demo?
Ah yes. It was confirmed from the stream and spoiler thread. Sorry that I forgot to add that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 29, 2014, 01:37:59 PM
I was hoping they'd ditch the floaty euroshmup gameplay, but eh.

The game can be considered to have a  "ground" now, with middle air being it. You can do some sort of highjump, landcancelling, etc.
I feel like the game is way closer to IaMP than any other touhou fighter ever.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on December 29, 2014, 02:02:53 PM
I tried out the demo. It's... passable, at best, but I don't know if I'll still feel that way once the novelty wears off. Still, they did make an effort to improve on HM. (Much of which wouldn't have been necessary if it hadn't been a floaty-fighter to begin with, but let's not beat a dead horse any further....)

- Dashing is a lot more fluid. In HM, it was easy to move forward instead of dashing without realizing it because of the startup. Now dashing is pretty much instantaneous.
- Characters stick to their lanes a lot more than in HM. There's still that floaty feel to switching lanes though. The horse may be mush at this point but this still makes me wish it were ground-based like, you know, every single memorable fighter in existence. =P
- The character selection screen felt a little.... meh. On one hand, you're shown all color options for your character in a "wheel" style instead of having to actually cycle through them to see what they look like but on the other hand you only see the currently-selected character. It's not like the other games, where you pick from a list. Seems like they could have just gone with the same thing for characters than for color options, I don't know why they didn't.... Oh well. It's a small thing.
- The game seems heavier on resources than HM. I had to set the "1/2 frame" option to get it to run fluidly but HM didn't give me that problem. Well -- it's just a demo so performance will probably be improved in the final release.
- Two buttons only to attack? It feels like they've over-simplified the fighting. I found myself mashing the same button over and over for the most part.... Maybe I'm missing something. I wasn't too sure how to do special moves either though. It seems to have less customization than HM but I haven't played with profiles yet.
- The AI uses spellcards now. Boy did it take them a while to get this right. SWR doesn't count because the AI never bothered to manage its cards or to use most of the ones available. =)
- The timer is generous enough to be able to enjoy a round instead of feeling pressured to win as fast as possible. And no more crap popularity mechanics! Though I doubt this is news to anyone....
- The new gimmick is..... meh. People hated SWR and Soku's weather effects so I'm not sure how well this will be received. I didn't see too much of it but it's basically the same thing only with more noticeable effects (eg, walls that actively push the characters together instead of river mist's counteractable pull effect).

I doubt I'll bother with the full game. I gave this one a shot and it was slightly better than what I thought it would be like. But just slightly. =) I think I'll stick to IaMP/Soku for now but after seeing Kasen included in the lineup I'm definitely keeping an eye on who'll be in the final game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on December 29, 2014, 02:17:08 PM
Away from my computer right now, and reading this thread is painful on the iPad.

None of these pictures aren't showing up, only 404 errors.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 29, 2014, 02:28:40 PM
Full text of Mystery Spots:

1. The Pyramids: Both side's Occult Specials are at maximum power.
2. Stonehenge: The playfield becomes gradually narrower.
3. Babel Tower: When touching the Occult Ball, the Ball can be used to attack the opponent
4. Yomotsu Hirasaka: Reduces stamina the closer one is to the stage center; all damage caused by this effect disappears when it ends
5. Nazca Ground Painting: Each time one touches the Occult Ball, one's stamina and Spell Gauge will be restored.
6. Hell Valley [a volcanic scenic spot in Hokkaido]: Turns the bottom of the screen into a damage zone; characters are harder to see.
7. Lunar Capital: Reduces bullet speed (some are not affected)


Each character has an Occult Special, released when possessing at least one Occult Balls by keep pressing the Special button.

There is a new "Fast-talk Declaration" system, which costs one Spell Gauge to interrupt the current action and declare your spell card, by pressing Spell button rapidly twice.

Kai Last Word: The "kai" here can be translated as "strange", "weird", "bizarre", "abnormal", etc.


Reimu:
Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Gap Woman"
Gap woman is an urban legend already in existence in Edo era, which Yukari is partially based on, about a woman in red watching people through a gap.

Occult Special: "Gap of the Great Hakurei Boundary"

Kai Last Word: *There's a shrine maiden in the gap!*


Marisa:
Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Seven Mysteries of the School"

Occult Special: True Horrors of the School (rotates through different objects)

Kai Last Word: *So great! Ms. Hanako of the Toilet!*


Kasen:
Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Monkey's Paw"

4 or 6 + Special: 彭祖 Houso
Houso is Kasen's tiger, seen in WaHH, named after Peng Zu, a famous figure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_Zu) known for having lived 800 years in Chinese traditions.

8 + Special: 竿打 Kanda
Kanda is one of Kasen's eagles seen in WaHH. The name means "beaten by a bamboo stick", as he is named after a hermit in Japanese legend who flew too low and got beaten by children with a bamboo stick.

2 + Special: 務光 Mukou
Mukou is Kasen's Raijuu (thunder beast), adopted in WaHH. Named after Wuguang, an ancient sage mentioned in Zhuang Zi, who would rather drown himself than accept the throne of China.

As you can see, Kasen's pets are all named after figures in Taoist hermit lore.

Occult Special: "Inescapable Monkey's Paw" (keep pressing the button to extend the arm, can be controlled with up and down buttons)

Spell Card: Dragon Sign "Dragon's Growl"

Kai Last Word: *Monkey's Paw! Crush the enemy!*
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 29, 2014, 02:51:16 PM
There is a new "Fast-talk Declaration" system, which costs one Spell Gauge to interrupt the current action and declare your spell card, by pressing Spell button rapidly twice.
Can anyone check if it's as good as GG's Roman Cancel combo potential-wise?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 29, 2014, 03:18:45 PM
Can anyone check if it's as good as GG's Roman Cancel combo potential-wise?

It is. It's a very strong move.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: homing curvy laser on December 29, 2014, 03:57:33 PM
Decided to pop up late to spread rumors.
That silhouette in stage 3 is none other than Sekibanki. Whether a normal fighter or final boss I have no idea (having a translation of Reimu's lines there would help, but well the game only came out a few hours ago so I will be patient), I refuse to see her being anyone else no matter what people say - round hair, huge ribbon, cool pose looking back, long fluttering cape. It's the Banki.

As for the weaher-like system with smash balls, uh, my opinion about them isn't complete yet, I'd have to see how they affect fights between two real people to be able to say anything... I'm not too favorable of random effects thanks to some typhoon-related traumas, but eh. And hopefully, the HM cast will be recycled as per Tasofro standards so we get Futo, Koishi and Kokoro drawn by Moe. (And one hermit means two hermits so we'll get the blue one too!)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 29, 2014, 04:19:09 PM
Sekibanki with long neck Dhalsim action would be freaky.  Which is exactly what she should be so that'd be cool, I think.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 29, 2014, 04:23:56 PM
Does it look like most or all of the themes this time will be brand new?  None of the two stage themes are remixed versions of old ones.  Also, in case some people haven't realized it yet, the title theme is a remix of 13.5's title theme.

Also, judging from the silhouette of the main villain, she sort of looks like she's wearing a cowboy hat.

EDIT: Just saw the post about her possibly being Sekibanki, and I think it may actually be possible.  She is accompanied by ghostly flames in 14 after all.  Hope it's true, because she's my favorite character in the series!  Now for a five month wait for new characters...

EDIT 2: Anyone remember the demo for 13.5 being data mined to discover all the non-boss characters in the game, but seemingly nobody believed the person who did this until the game was near release or released?  Wonder if this demo can be data mined too...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: LunaWillow on December 29, 2014, 05:00:58 PM
And hopefully, the HM cast will be recycled as per Tasofro standards so we get Futo, Koishi and Kokoro drawn by Moe. (And one hermit means two hermits so we'll get the blue one too!)
I hope so too!
I played demo. It was pretty fun. I don't think that character at the end is someone we've seen before - her hat look like diffrent  than any existing character with cape.
I tried out Kasen in versus mode. Reimu kicked my ass.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 29, 2014, 05:04:48 PM
I don't think that character at the end is someone we've seen before - her hat look like diffrent  than any existing character with cape.
Yeah, it's most likely a new character, though if you try to envision the supposed hat as a bow tie, then it does look like Sekibanki to some extent.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on December 29, 2014, 06:46:11 PM
EDIT 2: Anyone remember the demo for 13.5 being data mined to discover all the non-boss characters in the game, but seemingly nobody believed the person who did this until the game was released?  Wonder if this demo can be data mined too...

If Tasofro really wanted to keep the roster a secret, I bet they'd do things differently this time around. If this demo turns out to be mine-able like HM's, then it's safe to say that they want us to find out.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 29, 2014, 07:12:33 PM
If Tasofro really wanted to keep the roster a secret, I bet they'd do things differently this time around. If this demo turns out to be mine-able like HM's, then it's safe to say that they want us to find out.

Well, if I'm right, since the included icon folder (as images of such have been floating around the internet, since ichirin_face) is the same as HM's trial (all the way down to having ichirin's face icon in (ichirin confirmed), with the only change being kasen's face and the toilet being added), this demo should be mineable just like HM's was. Only time will tell if they fixed the oversight of leaving in references to the entire cast.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on December 29, 2014, 07:48:50 PM
So... I just played the trial and I must say I'm pleased. ^^

Kasen is totally Nakoruru on this game, by the way. Those who have played Samurai Showdown before will get the reference. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: DTM on December 29, 2014, 08:55:10 PM
I'm pleased too, even if it took 7 matches until I finally realized that the A,S,D, and C buttons actually do something (necesito English translation).

Also, while we are on the topic of data mining, did anyone manage to find a way to extract the BGMs of HM
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on December 30, 2014, 04:53:00 AM
Speaking of english translation... who will translate the full version?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 30, 2014, 05:05:00 AM
- Two buttons only to attack? It feels like they've over-simplified the fighting. I found myself mashing the same button over and over for the most part....
Four buttons, actually.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on December 30, 2014, 07:04:39 AM
Speaking of english translation... who will translate the full version?
CRAP refuses to touch HM because of technical reasons, so we'll probably have a situation where something gets posted to Nitori's garage, and then some people come together and patch it out.  =

Of course patching by tasfro needs to finish first so I wouldn't expect an english patch anytime soon after release. Maybe a few months after?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on December 30, 2014, 07:07:56 AM
Anyone else notice Kasen's stance is the crane stance?  And it fits with her animal-themed motif.

Ugh,  they're still doing the one round then fight "boss"-type spell cards system for storymode...  Can't they ever do anything new here?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on December 30, 2014, 07:31:28 AM
Anyone else notice Kasen's stance is the crane stance?  And it fits with her animal-themed motif.

Ugh,  they're still doing the one round then fight "boss"-type spell cards system for storymode...  Can't they ever do anything new here?

ZUN's always done the "one round then spell card" system for the main-line shooters and hasn't changed from that system in over a decade.  Maybe they want to do the same, I guess.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 30, 2014, 07:35:42 AM
CRAP refuses to touch HM because of technical reasons, so we'll probably have a situation where something gets posted to Nitori's garage, and then some people come together and patch it out.  =
Seeing as brliron did the patch for HM I assume he'll be able to do one for this with relative ease if the base engine is still the same.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on December 30, 2014, 09:01:02 AM
Anyone else notice Kasen's stance is the crane stance?  And it fits with her animal-themed motif.
On twitter someone compared it with Jam from Guilty Gear series.
https://twitter.com/akuryo24/status/549416227815174144/photo/1
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Stuffman on December 30, 2014, 09:02:04 AM
Four buttons, actually.

It could've been done with two, seeing how one button is for specials and one is exclusively for the spellcard. This game has the shortest movelists of any touhou fighter yet (counting multiple directions of the same bullet, Reimu has exactly 20 moves). It doesn't even have any customization anymore.

At this rate they'll be removing more content from HM than they added.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 30, 2014, 09:17:04 AM
This game has the shortest movelists of any touhou fighter yet

Disregarding skills/specials, it has more than 13.5. It doesn't have a lot more, but the addition of j5A alone are worth a ton in making the game interesting.

Though I'd wish they'd add a bit more to specials/spells, it's very limited right now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Stuffman on December 30, 2014, 09:39:57 AM
Disregarding skills/specials, it has more than 13.5. It doesn't have a lot more, but the addition of j5A alone are worth a ton in making the game interesting.

I stand corrected. I thought trading j5a for an entire bullet button was a raw deal, but after double-checking, HM's bullet options were even more limited than I thought they were. Jesus.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on December 30, 2014, 10:08:07 AM
I know speculating about Mima returning in every game is more of a joke at this point, but there is at least one thing that stuck out to me that could speak for such a possibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6eAVlb5m8U#t=0m30s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6eAVlb5m8U#t=0m30s) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjEDbaI2vA#t=7m25s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjEDbaI2vA#t=7m25s) look very much alike, taking into account the graphical possibilities of both games and I don't think any other character in the series has had such a pompous entry aside from her.

Also, Mima's hair could make her hat look like a jiangshi hat in shadow form - even ignoring the fact that Mima changed hats three times throughout SoEW alone.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: LunaWillow on December 30, 2014, 10:11:43 AM
I know speculating about Mima returning in every game is more of a joke at this point, but there is at least one thing that stuck out to me that could speak for such a possibility.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6eAVlb5m8U#t=0m30s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6eAVlb5m8U#t=0m30s) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjEDbaI2vA#t=7m25s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFjEDbaI2vA#t=7m25s) look very much alike, taking into account the graphical possibilities of both games and I don't think any other character in the series has had such a pompous entry aside from her.

Also, Mima's hair could make her hat look like a jiangshi hat in shadow form - even ignoring the fact that Mima changed hats three times throughout SoEW alone.
But that character has legs... Mima don't.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on December 30, 2014, 10:29:41 AM
But that character has legs... Mima don't.

In Mystic Square she does.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on December 30, 2014, 10:39:11 AM
Ah thank you for linking a video showing the boss, looking at a still image makes it hard to tell whats what and this is a much clearer image. I might retract my statement on it being the fourth deva.

Is that a sword I see in the silhouette?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 30, 2014, 10:44:07 AM
She's wearing a sombrero. Must be a Mexican storyteller.  :derp:
And the hat is her source of power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_symmetry_breaking#A_pedagogical_example:_the_Mexican_hat_potential)  :derp:

To be honest, is it really alright to talk about the gameplay like that here? Because I'm sure not all of us went to Comiket and bought one.
So it's kind of obvious how you "know" of said info, and I thought mentioning that is not allowed here...
If it's alright, though, then please carry on with the discussion.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on December 30, 2014, 12:24:53 PM
Did anyone notice that they use the Western naming order for the names?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 30, 2014, 01:06:25 PM
Did anyone notice that they use the Western naming order for the names?
It's noticeable since the first screenshot. I'd have joked they must have been consulting the English Touhou wiki, but honestly it's probably just Tasofro people doing what they like.

The change of movement system from 13.5 to 14.5, as illustrated (https://twitter.com/ninnniku_) by one of the best Suwako players.
HM:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/con1_zps88c55dfd.jpg)

ULiL:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/con2_zpsdd6a67f3.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 30, 2014, 01:54:08 PM
translation plox :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on December 30, 2014, 02:30:49 PM
ULiL tries to keep you around the center of the screen, HM lets you float awkwardly all over the place.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on December 30, 2014, 02:42:37 PM
It's more like HM lets you move around the screen more freely, while ULIL treats the center line more like a ground now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on December 30, 2014, 03:12:23 PM
So basically movement is much more streamlined now?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on December 30, 2014, 03:25:03 PM
Is that a sword I see in the silhouette?

Are you talking about the possible sword she's carrying on her back? I thought it was a sword at first, too, but if you look closely you'll see it's just her hands.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on December 30, 2014, 03:30:18 PM
(Though it's already clear enough from the picture... oh well)
Edited, cuc.

The change of movement system from 13.5 to 14.5, as illustrated (https://twitter.com/ninnniku_) by one of the best Suwako players.
Read from Left to Right

HM:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/con1_zps88c55dfd.jpg)
You can move upward and downward while dashing
The dash is the same, whether you're in the upper, middle, or lower part
You can maintain the same latitude while dashing.
You can still "jump" up and down even if you're in the upper or lower part

ULiL:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/con2_zpsdd6a67f3.jpg)
You cannot move upward and downward while dashing, instead pressing them will make you jump
The dash will be different depending on your latitude. You also cannot jump unless you're in the middle
Dashing will force you towards the middle. And since you cannot jump, it can't be braked(you can't stop the fall to the middle line).
Unless you use the flight button, jumping in the upper or lower part is not possible. But since the dash is not limited, you can make a zig-zag movement.

In short, it gives faster mobility, but less freedom compared to HM. Though it makes combat better, it also makes it harder for you to get to the Occult Ball.
I also think that it's thanks to the flight button now. Not every player can make a quick dash back in HM so that makes it easier. If HM had it, then it might prove to make the movement better.
The zig-zag move was already in HM, but since it's jumping, it's a bit slow. In ULiL you can do a shorter, faster one.

What I'm curious on is how this will fare with Byakuren and Koishi?
Will there be a diagonal teleport dash or hopping?
A quick, zig-zag teleport dashing... Interesting :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on December 30, 2014, 04:03:33 PM
Thanks for adding the text! I'll put it into the OP. (It's actually called the Flight button)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on December 30, 2014, 07:20:21 PM
So, when I 2C, Reimu puts out her little warp kick marker, but also sometimes instead she does her diagonal kick off the bottom of the screen and back up.  I've been unable to figure out the exact input for that.

However, more in general, is there a list of all the possible universal inputs per character?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suikama on December 30, 2014, 07:58:52 PM
So, when I 2C, Reimu puts out her little warp kick marker, but also sometimes instead she does her diagonal kick off the bottom of the screen and back up.  I've been unable to figure out the exact input for that.

However, more in general, is there a list of all the possible universal inputs per character?
I found more moves

Holding B does a different projectile

Holding C does another special as long as it's being held. I think you need glowy orb meter for this or something.

Up Down C or Down Up C does the Reimu dash
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on December 30, 2014, 08:27:56 PM
I found more moves

Holding B does a different projectile

Holding C does another special as long as it's being held. I think you need glowy orb meter for this or something.

Up Down C or Down Up C does the Reimu dash

Ah, interesting.  So (at least for Reimu), her moveset looks like this so far:

5A... (autocombo)
6A
8A
2A
66A
j.A

5B
6B
8B
2B
[B.] (damn post formatting)

5C
4/6C (or is it only 6C?)
8C
2C
28C
82C
[C] (Occult attack)

This is based off of memory from messing with the demo last night.  Is this right?  Is there a 66B move as well?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 30, 2014, 08:41:23 PM
Ah, interesting.  So (at least for Reimu), her moveset looks like this so far:

4A (does the same as 5a but doesn't turn into f5A)
5A... (autocombo)
6A
8A
2A
f.5A
66A
66B
j.A
j.6A

5B
6B
8B
2B
[B.] (damn post formatting)

5C
4/6C does the same
8C
2C
28C I don't think this exist
82C same as above
[C] (Occult attack)
j.5C

I added what I found there :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suikama on December 30, 2014, 08:45:47 PM
28/82C only seems to work for Reimu for whatever reason
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Neodymium on December 30, 2014, 09:16:54 PM
You don't have to input 28 or 82. You just have to input j.C above or below the center line for Reimu's diagonal dash attack.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on December 30, 2014, 09:18:50 PM
Ah, that makes sense.  So 2C and j.2C are equivalent (as are 8C and j.8C), but j.5C is its own thing.

And that's only for Reimu?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Neodymium on December 30, 2014, 09:32:25 PM
2C and 8C are still Reimu's Teleport and Ascension Kick  and there is no such thing as j.5C.

For j.C, jump in any direction, release jump, and then hit C and you should be able to do the dash attack.

If you do this with Marisa, she'll throw her bottle about half of the distance and for Kasen, nothing will happen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on December 31, 2014, 03:17:13 AM
Holding no direction is the same thing is stating 5.  And since you must be holding no direction to get the angle kick, it is appropriate to call it j.5C.

Although, the "j." terminology alone is somewhat insufficient for this game.  Since Reimu technically does two different moves between the top and bottom halves of the screen in j.5C, perhaps we could use t.5C and b.5C?

Reimu's third spell card is kind of hilarious.  Can't wait to see people find setups for it.

Edit: another point for my suggested nomenclature.  Marisa has a t.2A (with no b equivalent).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on December 31, 2014, 05:04:23 AM
Right, I should add j.5C into that list.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on December 31, 2014, 05:09:57 AM
Quote
Although, the "j." terminology alone is somewhat insufficient for this game.  Since Reimu technically does two different moves between the top and bottom halves of the screen in j.5C, perhaps we could use t.5C and b.5C?

Why use t (top), b(bottom) over u(up), d(down)?

EDIT: Oh yeah, anyone know about when the full version will come out?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on December 31, 2014, 06:01:20 AM
Why use t (top), b(bottom) over u(up), d(down)?

EDIT: Oh yeah, anyone know about when the full version will come out?

t and b popped into my head first. :)

Also I guess it's a bit less confusing.  Top and bottom are pretty unambiguous, whereas 8 means up, and u means up, but they mean different ups.  When speaking aloud, people occasionally (often?) state the full word, like "Use your jump C," or "Combo into close Slash," so I think the terminology should take that into account and make the full word versions simple as well.

But it honestly doesn't matter that much.

For those not in the know, you can charge partition your [B.]s and [C]s during other moves, so you could do 5A > [C] instead of 5A > (Some C move) > [C], which really increases their flexibility and usability.

Is there any point to Marisa being able to hold her [C]?  I haven't seen any noticeable difference.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on December 31, 2014, 06:52:06 AM
Oh yeah, anyone know about when the full version will come out?

I'm guessing next year's Summer Reitaisai?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on December 31, 2014, 09:46:06 AM
What is the input for Reimus Ying-Yang-toss? I assumed it's just holding B and any direction, but sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and sometimes she first uses the direction-B attack, followed by the Orb-toss without a pause in between.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on December 31, 2014, 10:18:15 AM
What is the input for Reimus Ying-Yang-toss? I assumed it's just holding B and any direction, but sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and sometimes she first uses the direction-B attack, followed by the Orb-toss without a pause in between.

That input is [B.] (hold B).  It doesn't matter what direction (though the direction will change how the orb is tossed once it's summoned).

If you simply hold B from the get-go, you will a B move (dictated by which direction you hold, just like normal) followed by the orb.  This is because the game will always do the first thing it can (this is pretty standard for fighting games).  If you don't want to use a B move, you can partition the charge in another move.  For example:

5A (hold B during the startup animation) > Orb (if you start holding B too late into the 5A, you will instead whiff cancel into 5B, and then into [B.])
Backdash (hold B during the backdash since you aren't allowed to attack during back dashes) > Orb

Note that you can quite literally hold the Orb infinitely (it shoots when you let go).  If you aren't seeing the Orb at all, it's likely you are not holding B long enough.  You need to be holding B after you finish your recovery frames from whatever move you've done before.  You need to be neutral while having held B for long enough.

I'm pretty certain skillful button charge partitioning will be pretty important for this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on December 31, 2014, 12:55:18 PM
Reimu full moveset with damage numbers.  Ignoring proration for now until we understand it better (though it looks at first glance to be a pretty standard "different values for proration and initial proration" system).
Spellcard individual damage counts may be slightly off.  Hard to test (though freezing proration to 100% in cheat engine suddenly popped into my mind).

My goal was to be comprehensive, not concise.  In most fighting games, there are pretty standard rules for "fallbacks".  That is, if your character doesn't have a 4A, pressing 4A will give you 5A, and things like that.  Until we fully understand how the fallback system of this game works, I've opted to test each of the 9 directions for each button input, just to be safe.  Once we do have that information, this could look much prettier (and therefore easier to comprehend).


=== Legend ===

"A": Melee attack
"B": Projectile attack
"C": Special attack
"D": Dash ("while dashing")
"4D": Backdash
"j.": While not on the middle plane ("grounded")
"t.": j., but only in the top half of the stage
"b.": j., but only in the bottom half of the stage
"c.": Must be close to the opponent
"f.": Must be far away from the opponent
{}: Optional
(*/*/*/...): Any of the delimited inputs are sufficient
() after damage: Total damage if all hits connect (prorated)
>: Followup input
x: Unknown number
[*.]: Button held
]*[: Button released

If not otherwise specified, any move may be done during a dash instantly (lagless cancelling of the dash).

Counterhits add damage.  It seems to mostly be a 20% increase across the board, though there are exceptions.  5C, for example, only gets a 10% increase, but Orb (another projectile), gets the full 20%.  More experimentation is needed.

All characters in the demo have 10000 health and take the same amount of damage.

Spellcards: Additional meter scales up to a 60% damage increase at 200% (100% meter = 100% damage, 150% meter = 130% damage, 200% meter = 160% damage).  Stacks multiplicatively with the counterhit bonus for 192% damage!

=== Reimu ===

Autocombo order: c.5A > c.5A > f.5A > 6A > (4/6)C (approx: 1396 out of corner, 1582 midscreen, 1879 into corner)

(4/c.5)A: 200
f.5A (also D5A, strangely): 400
6A: 650
{j.}(1/2/3)A: 600
{j.}(7/8/9)A: 600
j.(4/5)A: 400
j.6A: 600
D6A: 440

D5A lets you use f.5A up close!  Can easily be done by pianoing D~A as quick as you can.  It feels like even a 1 frame piano is sufficient to get the f.5A.

{j.}(4/5)B: 130 * 3 (321)
{j.}(1/2/3)B: Same as 5B, but angled down by 45 degrees
{j.}(7/8/9)B: Same as 5B, but angled up by 45 degrees
{j.}6B: 150 * 4 (501)
D6B: 660
[B.]: Summon orb
> ]B[: Release orb (800)
Holding directions will charge how the orb is fired.
4/5/6: Orb is shot straight forward
1/2/3: Orb is shot angled down by 60~ degrees
7/8/9: Orb is shot angled up by 60~ degrees

5C: 200 * 3 (510)
{j.}(4/6)C: (20 + 300) * 10 (998)
{j.}(1/2/3)C: 100 (places marker)
> {j.}(1/2/3)C: 400 * x (could personally only get 4 hits max for 1419)
{j.}(7/8/9)C: 700
t.5C: 400 + 600 (955)
b.5C: Same as t.5C, but mirrored across the ground plane
[C]: 150 * x (777 with max Occult Balls)
Occult attack.  Shots as many projectiles as Reimu has Occult Balls.  Cannot be used if you have 0 Occult Balls.

Spell Cards:

Fantasy Heaven: 350 * 7 (2079) (This math doesn't add up and I'm not sure why.  I'm getting an additional 3-4 points of damage near the end per ball.)

Pillar: 100 * 21 + 1200 (2838)

Orb: 100 * x (I've gotten up to 15 with the opponent jumping down into the corner)
> Any button (even declare and dash): 200 * x (Wide variety of hits)
THIS SPELLCARD IS BUGGED.  IF AT ANY POINT YOU PAUSE DURING THE MATCH, REIMU WILL ALWAYS AUTOMATICALLY RELEASE THE ORB THE FIRST FRAME SHE CAN.

I believe this is everything.  If I'm missing something, let me know!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 01, 2015, 01:42:06 PM
Some post-demo speculation on roster:

a. This is a general observation about ZUN's attitude I already had before the demo: the non-protagonist characters from the IaMP to Soku era will not be playable again.

Creating fighting game sprites is the most costly part of the development. Each new playable character means an additional large chunk of development cost.

If the chance to make fighting game sprites for a Touhou character is that precious, it makes sense to not use it twice on the same non-protagonist character. ZUN would've preferred giving the opportunity to characters that have never been featured in a fighting game.

b. Several HM characters are unlikely to make the cut to ULiL, or at least will not have their own Story Mode routes.

The story premise as seen in the demo puts severe restrictions on what the characters can do: each character will borrow the power of an urban legend through the Occult Balls. In the Story Mode, it seems each opponent will bring forth an Occult Ball and cast at least one "Weird Spell Card". The Story Mode's emphasis on the "gather seven Occult Balls" rumor, seems to indicate that the general story flow will involve something like the player character defeating 6 other Occult Ball owners and taking their Balls, then the boss showing up.

I think there are a few issues with connecting the HM characters to this premise. The religious characters are time-displaced ancient ascetics who are disconnected from urban life; unlike Reimu and Marisa, who have adopted the legends as their playthings, or Kasen, who wishes to take back her arm, it's hard to imagine the Taoists and Buddhists taking an interest in the vulgar (see the WaHH spoilers) power of the urban legends.

Gameplay-wise, aside from the random effects, ULiL has taken a back-to--basic approach, scaling back on the experiments of HM, removing customization, freeform flight, popularity and character-exclusive systems. The exclusive system-heavy characters of HM will need extensive reworking.

Having more than a dozen characters, each with their own story, music theme and stage (some stages may even have its own theme separate from character themes) would also be a lot of work in terms of writing, music and art. I think one reason SWR could have that many story routes and new music themes might be that its development took a real long time, which is not the case with ULiL.

Mamizou has good reasons to be in ULiL: she told Reimu and friends about manipulating urban legends with rumors in the first place. The other HM characters, I'm not so sure.

However, I do think there will be another game - say, Touhou 15.5 - that further builds upon ULiL. The HM characters should have a chance of appearing in that game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on January 01, 2015, 02:35:39 PM
The exclusive system-heavy characters of HM will need extensive reworking.

This is probably my biggest concern right now.  The character systems were one of the coolest parts about HM, and while some were just straight power (Reimu, Ichirin), some affected the gameplay significantly and felt like part of the character's identity (Futo, Byakuren).

I personally think we'll be getting every character from HM back, because the sprites are already there and ready to be used.  But I am worried that certain characters won't feel as cool, even though the base system appeals to me much more than HM's.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, crossup protection is still in place. :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 01, 2015, 05:23:51 PM
This is probably my biggest concern right now.  The character systems were one of the coolest parts about HM, and while some were just straight power (Reimu, Ichirin), some affected the gameplay significantly and felt like part of the character's identity (Futo, Byakuren).

I personally think we'll be getting every character from HM back, because the sprites are already there and ready to be used.  But I am worried that certain characters won't feel as cool, even though the base system appeals to me much more than HM's.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, crossup protection is still in place. :(

I believe it's not difficult to carry those abilities over for tasofro. :)

Though I wonder what "crossup protection" are you talking about?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on January 01, 2015, 05:58:41 PM
This is probably my biggest concern right now.  The character systems were one of the coolest parts about HM, and while some were just straight power (Reimu, Ichirin), some affected the gameplay significantly and felt like part of the character's identity (Futo, Byakuren).

While some character-specific systems were good, in the end some of them were too gimmicky that felt like they restricted a lot of the character's potential overall that prove to be more frustrating that good (ie. Byakuren, Koishi, Miko, etc).

Quote
Also, in case anyone was wondering, crossup protection is still in place. :(

This is not surprising. This isn't an HM/ULIL only thing. This is pretty common in anime fighters overall. Melty Blood has it as well and that's probably the most popular anime fighter out there (at least for it's time).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 01, 2015, 07:12:03 PM
I don't get what this crossup protection are you guys talking about. Is it about bullets hitting from behind can be blocked as long as you walk away from your opponent?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sahgren on January 01, 2015, 07:22:08 PM
More or less, yeah. Crossup protection tends to come in 2 different ways: The walking backwards animation makes you block everything, and you don't have to change which direction you're blocking in if you haven't fully recovered from blocking an attack. Both irregardless of what side of you your opponent is on. The first makes crossups in general harder to pull off, and the second prevents people from throwing out an attack that lasts a long time, then jumping back and forth over your head to force you to change which direction you're blocking while the attack is still going on.

Edit: And no offense, but you could've found the answer to this by Googling "crossup protection" and clicking on the non-Twitter results. There are a couple (http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8994-crossup-and-overhead-protection/?p=829846) different (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/game-engine-mechanics/wip-guide-to-learning-mbaa-%28as-an-sf-player%29/) entries (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYxlRteU338) that explain it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 01, 2015, 08:04:26 PM
Creating fighting game sprites is the most costly part of the development. Each new playable character means an additional large chunk of development cost.
And this is why next to no one does 2D anymore.  In this day and age, it is plain and simply cheaper and easier to go the 2.5D or 3D route.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on January 01, 2015, 08:44:56 PM
Well guys, I made a small combo video for Kasen after 2 days of experimenting with her (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi9tiJi-Ij8)

She's fun. If Koishi isn't in the game I might main her in the end, but again, I have to see what other characters are in the final game when in comes out.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 01, 2015, 09:03:46 PM
Edit: And no offense, but you could've found the answer to this by Googling "crossup protection" and clicking on the non-Twitter results. There are a couple (http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8994-crossup-and-overhead-protection/?p=829846) different (http://www.meltybread.com/forums/game-engine-mechanics/wip-guide-to-learning-mbaa-%28as-an-sf-player%29/) entries (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYxlRteU338) that explain it.

Lol. I know what "crossup protection" is, but I need to double check it because I don't see a reason for people to complain about it.
Crossups are still very potent, though maybe less from Soku.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on January 01, 2015, 11:39:29 PM
My mains in HM were Koishi, Mamizou and Nitori.
My main here is Marisa.
Here's hoping Mamizou to come back.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 02, 2015, 12:20:12 AM
I?ve noticed a patern here:

IAMP-HM
SWR-ULIL
UNL-

That would mean that ULIL will get an expansion like SWR had with UNL! HM had the begging of the flight battle system, ULIL will modify it like SWR did with IAMP so if Zun follows this pattern, then that would mean ULIL will get an expansion in the future!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 02, 2015, 01:07:21 AM
I?ve noticed a patern here:

IAMP-HM
SWR-ULIL
UNL-

That would mean that ULIL will get an expansion like SWR had with UNL! HM had the begging of the flight battle system, ULIL will modify it like SWR did with IAMP so if Zun follows this pattern, then that would mean ULIL will get an expansion in the future!

It might. Its hard to say that is a pattern as we only have the first gen fighter and starting on the second gen, once it happens at least twice or three times then yeah I'd say there is a pattern.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on January 02, 2015, 01:18:44 AM
So, uh, crossup protection may not be in the game.  I'm getting different results now that I was in my (admittedly sleep deprived) tests last night.

And by crossup protection, I want to be clear that I only mean the grace period where you can hold 6 to block if the enemy crosses you up.  I can't think of a game that requires you to block projectiles based on their position instead of the enemy character's, so to me that's not protection, that's just...blocking.

If this is true (it's remarkably hard to test without a second person to control blocking), then I'm pretty happy.

Tested with Reimu's 2C and 8C, both moves that have strong crossup potential.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 02, 2015, 01:37:35 AM
I?ve given it some thought and if HM characters other than the usual 2 are in the game... Zun would need to find or create Urban Legends for them. Honestly for characters like Kokoro it wouldn't be that hard, but for characters like Nitori... and like cuc said maybe the Buddists and Taoists probably woudn't be interested in Urban Legends. Characters like Sekibanki  and Orin might make it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 02, 2015, 02:56:23 AM
Well, its been done in Immaterial and Missing Power, it may be done here too. If it is really that tough to squeeze them in the story, why not just make it so that those character don't have a story arc and only appear in VS mode?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 02, 2015, 03:04:33 AM
Well, its been done in Immaterial and Missing Power, it may be done here too. If it is really that tough to squeeze them in the story, why not just make it so that those character don't have a story arc and only appear in VS mode?

With Meiling, and every character from UNL that isn't Sanae, Meiling and Cirno.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 02, 2015, 03:11:15 AM
Well, its been done in Immaterial and Missing Power, it may be done here too. If it is really that tough to squeeze them in the story, why not just make it so that those character don't have a story arc and only appear in VS mode?

Well the Issues I can see being that since the games movement and combat are different and if there are new characters (which Kasen is one), they most likely have to go through balancing and a whole bunch of stuff to get it to work. During the Skull girls kickstarter for a new character the devs explained how and why it's so difficult and expensive to make a new character to a roster.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 02, 2015, 03:53:34 AM
Well the Issues I can see being that since the games movement and combat are different and if there are new characters (which Kasen is one), they most likely have to go through balancing and a whole bunch of stuff to get it to work. During the Skull girls kickstarter for a new character the devs explained how and why it's so difficult and expensive to make a new character to a roster.

Safe bet is only 8 new characters. Actually I'm surprised they anounced a game so fast, asuming they begun development at least this year, since fighting games take a lot of time to be made. Skullgirls was an example, in Smash Sakurai explained it might take months to make a character, Mewtwo began development in Nov and probably will be finished on March, almost 5 months. Finally check out the guy here at the forums making Smash Touhou, it's been three months and Reimu is still in development.

Adding a character needs to meet various criteria namely 1-Being popular, 2-Being relevant to the story, 3-Being viable as a character. Adding a character by itself is important development for the game so it can't just be "we will add ie Rumia and other 15 characters", the character needs to be important because they are gonna be a few (Counting Reimu, Marisa, Kasen and new character leaves us with 6 free slots)

Now when it comes to HM characters I think it's mostly believed they will return, however maybe they are not. Well, even if they return they need to be tweaked to the new mechanics, need their own gimmicks, which special stays, remove their special gimmick from HM and new artwork (for dialog/char screen and last words, idk even if they are irrelevant to the story it will look weird to have half of the roster in alphes style) which will take a lot of work, it can be as time consuming as adding a new character. Besides I don't want HM characters to be forced into the plot, neither I want a mess of a story like PoFV was.

Most probably ZUN will focus on the plot rather on returning characters and since it's already going to be a lot of work to add new characters the best thing (At least for Tasofro) would be to leave them out instead of adding irrelevant characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 02, 2015, 04:20:49 AM
Safe bet is only 8 new characters. Actually I'm surprised they anounced a game so fast, asuming they begun development at least this year, since fighting games take a lot of time to be made. Skullgirls was an example, in Smash Sakurai explained it might take months to make a character, Mewtwo began development in Nov and probably will be finished on March, almost 5 months. Finally check out the guy here at the forums making Smash Touhou, it's been three months and Reimu is still in development.
Not sure how reliable this is, but according to Ed Boon in an interview about Injustice, a character takes only 6 weeks to make.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 02, 2015, 04:27:02 AM
Not sure how reliable this is, but according to Ed Boon on an interview about Injustice, a character takes only 6 weeks to make.

Ed boon is also insane as well. But he also has a larger team then lab 0 or tasofro.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on January 02, 2015, 05:38:40 AM
Quote
Adding a character needs to meet various criteria namely 1-Being popular, 2-Being relevant to the story, 3-Being viable as a character. Adding a character by itself is important development for the game so it can't just be "we will add ie Rumia and other 15 characters", the character needs to be important because they are gonna be a few (Counting Reimu, Marisa, Kasen and new character leaves us with 6 free slots)

1 and 3 are very important, 2 not so much so. ZUN can and has molded the plot around characters (how most of the SWR cast got involved, hisou as a whole, and even HM which was best about this had the mask of hope dropping into hell was basically an excuse for Koishi to make an appearance).

There also seems to be an additional criteria in which 'weaker' characters on the canon power scale don't get to make it into the fighters. Notice how the overwhelming majority of fighter characters are stage 4 or later - the only exceptions being Cirno, Nitori, and Meiling.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 02, 2015, 05:52:28 AM
There also seems to be an additional criteria in which 'weaker' characters on the canon power scale don't get to make it into the fighters. Notice how the overwhelming majority of fighter characters are stage 4 or later - the only exceptions being Cirno, Nitori, and Meiling.

I'd disagree, if we take the spell card rules from the shooters and look at how the fighting games are, they are nothing more then modified versions of the shooters. The rules can be made before the match on how it will go down and that's why even normal humans could technically win. If we look at some of the "weaker" ones all they would have to do is have the rules be you can only take so many hits, or some attacks can be considered two hits. It's all based on how you look at the rules, but even if we get say Rumia in a fighting game it could be done, but her personality and sheer laziness would discount her out of such games I feel.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 02, 2015, 06:31:46 AM
I should have put this in the earlier post (and maybe into every new game announcement post), but fandom popularity means nothing to ZUN. Fandom popularity only matters when your goal is to please the fans, which is emphatically never what ZUN has wanted to do. He makes what was interesting to himself, as far as his resources can allow him.

Safe bet is only 8 new characters
During HM's development, Tasofro said due to the higher resolution, making one HM character is harder than previous games. So...

Oh, you mean "only 8 characters in total"? Yeah, I was wondering about such a possibility.

In any case, I'm setting my expectation about the number of playable characters low, so that I may be pleasantly surprised by the actual game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 02, 2015, 06:53:58 AM
During HM's development, Tasofro said due to the higher resolution, making one HM character is harder than previous games. So...

The sprites in HM look amazing and I was really surprised on how smooth they looked, but the amount of time that must have been put into those... uhg...
You think there might be a possibility of working with 3d models? Getting the models made is the hard part but after that all that's left is to create the animations which is a lot easier then with sprites. Guilty Gear Xrd recently came out and I thought those where sprites at first but are actually 3d models, think Tasofro might hit that route one day?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on January 02, 2015, 07:52:51 AM
Too many people in Japan have toasters for computers at home. To get that GGXrd look the models need to be quite high poly and the shader effects needs to be precise, or else it will look like low budget anime CGI. A Touhou fighter would also have plenty of particle effects.

That doesn't mean a 3D Touhou fighter can't possibly happen, just don't expect it to look anywhere as good as GGXrd.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 02, 2015, 07:57:57 AM
Quote
I'd disagree, if we take the spell card rules from the shooters and look at how the fighting games are, they are nothing more then modified versions of the shooters. The rules can be made before the match on how it will go down and that's why even normal humans could technically win.

Yes, technically, they could win, but the odds are astronomically low. Kind of like what happens in Great Fairy Wars. Cirno is not going to beat Marisa.
Marisa has complained more than once in her Grimoire that Suika uses some shady attacks.
That said, none of this should have any relevance to if the character belongs in a story arc or not.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on January 02, 2015, 08:02:02 AM
Too many people in Japan have toasters for computers at home. To get that GGXrd look the models need to be quite high poly and the shader effects needs to be precise, or else it will look like low budget anime CGI. A Touhou fighter would also have plenty of particle effects.

That doesn't mean a 3D Touhou fighter can't possibly happen, just don't expect it to look anywhere as good as GGXrd.
Let's not forget the crapload of trickery used to make it "look" 2D, including emulating 2D errors and stuff. Would be pretty taxing on the system, I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 02, 2015, 09:45:02 AM
1 and 3 are very important, 2 not so much so. ZUN can and has molded the plot around characters (how most of the SWR cast got involved, hisou as a whole, and even HM which was best about this had the mask of hope dropping into hell was basically an excuse for Koishi to make an appearance).


True indeed, however the difference here radicates that Tenshi's incident caused trouble to everyone both the earthquake affecting the shrine and gathering temperaments. This time it's more complicated, I mean, I do want the HM cast back (I loved every one of them) but characters like Futo or Ichirin had no motive to use the Urban Legends. Miko and Byakuren could probably do but with what purpose? HM taught the religious figures to not be too greedy when it comes to controlling the village's feelings.

There also seems to be an additional criteria in which 'weaker' characters on the canon power scale don't get to make it into the fighters. Notice how the overwhelming majority of fighter characters are stage 4 or later - the only exceptions being Cirno, Nitori, and Meiling.

That's because most relevant characters appear from stage 4 onwards. Meiling appeared in IaMP because the team at Tasofro liked her very much for the game. Soku's story mode is a joke lmao so it has no relevance.

I should have put this in the earlier post (and maybe into every new game announcement post), but fandom popularity means nothing to ZUN. Fandom popularity only matters when your goal is to please the fans, which is emphatically never what ZUN has wanted to do. He makes what was interesting to himself, as far as his resources can allow him.

When I refered to popularity it was more or less like the character being used a lot in canon works, ie Yuyuko, Yukari, Remilia, etc... all these are important characters when compared to ie: Kyouko, Sekibanki, Hina, etc... so these are more likely to get in.

Oh, you mean "only 8 characters in total"? Yeah, I was wondering about such a possibility.

In any case, I'm setting my expectation about the number of playable characters low, so that I may be pleasantly surprised by the actual game.

No, I was refering to 8 new characters not featured in HM (One of them is Kasen though):
-Reimu
-Marisa
-Kasen
-Free slot for old char
-Free slot for old char
-Free slot for old char
-Free slot for old char
-Free slot for old char
-Boss character (new)

However like you mentioned Tasofro had trouble with the engine and were beginng from scratch. Something is for sure, they already got Reimu, Marisa and Kasen done, the mechanics ready and might reuse backgrounds (Human village?) so they could use more of that free time to work on a larger roster. If that were the case I would love to see at least one rep from each shoting game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 02, 2015, 10:52:21 AM
1 and 3 are very important, 2 not so much so. ZUN can and has molded the plot around characters (how most of the SWR cast got involved, hisou as a whole, and even HM which was best about this had the mask of hope dropping into hell was basically an excuse for Koishi to make an appearance).
#1 isn't important either.  Nobody expected Ichirin in HM.

The sprites in HM look amazing and I was really surprised on how smooth they looked, but the amount of time that must have been put into those... uhg...
You think there might be a possibility of working with 3d models? Getting the models made is the hard part but after that all that's left is to create the animations which is a lot easier then with sprites. Guilty Gear Xrd recently came out and I thought those where sprites at first but are actually 3d models, think Tasofro might hit that route one day?
I wish they did for this game.  Check out some Crucis Fatal Fake vids and remember, that doujin game came out six years ago in 2008.  Why can't Tasofro at least match that in 2015?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 02, 2015, 11:15:58 AM
3D (at least, on the level of Fatal Fake) is way easier to make than 2D (on the level of HM). But for some people, pixel art are just too beautiful to let go.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 03, 2015, 10:04:15 AM
3D (at least, on the level of Fatal Fake) is way easier to make than 2D (on the level of HM). But for some people, pixel art are just too beautiful to let go.
I've heard something similar to that, particularly about Japanese devs.

I find it tends to be an albatross around the neck.  To be hung up on nostalgia never to realize their own potential.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on January 03, 2015, 02:11:46 PM
Could people do a workaround?
If 3d is easier (1 model and then animations instead of various independent sprites), why not using filters to do a faux 2d? I know of cell shading, but what about making things intentionally pixel-y? This guy used (http://kupogames.com/2014/09/10/bh2-new-hovertank-and-filters/) filters (in ActionScript) to replicate 16-bit games. The source says something about altering the pixel size (this aplies to making pixelated images, not 16-bit ones).

The perfect crime, without victims. Sans old computers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 03, 2015, 03:02:24 PM
Could people do a workaround?
If 3d is easier (1 model and then animations instead of various independent sprites), why not using filters to do a faux 2d? I know of cell shading, but what about making things intentionally pixel-y? This guy used (http://kupogames.com/2014/09/10/bh2-new-hovertank-and-filters/) filters (in ActionScript) to replicate 16-bit games. The source says something about altering the pixel size (this aplies to making pixelated images, not 16-bit ones).

The perfect crime, without victims. Sans old computers.

Getting an image look pixelated is not the same as pixel art  !

It's an artist thingy, I also get very hyped from pixel arts.  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 03, 2015, 08:30:18 PM
2D sprites are drawings, that's a different form of art than 3D modelling. I personally don't really like that much 3D renders and modelling, because it's much more "mathematical" than artistic.  (The fact that it is "easier" to create makes it less impressive too.) Some are really very nice, but you don't find that "little thing" you have with drawings, especially for fighting games.
So I really enjoy that some 2D games are still made, because they're the most enjoyable to watch, in my humble opinion.
And talking about artistic stuff, I really love the artistic direction of this new game, the interface, the musics, the artworks, etc...


By the way, regarding the specials attacks you do when you hold B or C, there are some little things (some are a little bit silly) I keep wondering about for each character:

Reimu:
[C] Gap attack throwing sotobas. (throws 1 if 1 orb, and then throws several ones when you get more)

I know she can manipulate boundaries and uses kekkais (kinda like Yukari), but opening an actual dimensional gap and throwing objects like Yukari does, it's rather surprising for a human (I mean, Yukari is a youkai (and one of the strongest known youkai, if not the strongest)).

? My question is: did she learn how to use Yukari's attacks (maybe she taught her?), or is it actually Yukari who intervenes in the fight by opening a gap to attack (as a helper) ?

Marisa:
[C] Summon-attack of random object with different effects.

I know the attacks are related to the folklore and myths (like her last word that I really love so much, it's awesome), so everything makes sense, but I just wonder how does she summon the objects?
? Making objects come from nowhere is Yukari's speciality, but what is the kind of power Marisa uses for this trick? I know it's stupid, but I'm still curious.

Kasen:
[B] Energy ball (rainbow colors) thrown. (the direction key used when releasing the button can change the direction and the range of the attack)

More technical question: The energy ball stays at the same place during all the match when you throw one, the new one will replace the older each time you use this attack, but the will still be an energy ball in the game, and I can't find what it does.
Once you throw it, if it hits the opponent, it deals damage, and if he doesn't, it stays like a decoration without hurting or draining energy. I tried to test the reaction of the characters by looking their life, spirit, or even the reaction of the occult ball, but I didn't notice anything.
? Does anyone knows what it does? Or maybe it actually doesn't do anything yet because it's still a trial and the additional effect will be added later?



Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Polaris on January 03, 2015, 09:08:57 PM
If you use Kasen's eagle as a projectile, it'll aim towards the rainbow thingy and use it as a pivot to home in towards the opponent.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 03, 2015, 10:21:16 PM
Oh, of course! I wonder how I didn't notice it myself, I already noticed that Kanda went sometimes in other directions with some kind of ricochet but forgot to search why. Thanks for the info, Polaris.
                                                                ,Thank you!
(http://a.pomf.se/gtdoxh.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 04, 2015, 07:35:09 AM
3D (at least, on the level of Fatal Fake) is way easier to make than 2D (on the level of HM). But for some people, pixel art are just too beautiful to let go.

Yeah, there is a certain charm to sprites and pixels. HM was gorgeous because of the sprite work. Personally I think Touhou looks better with 2D because it's something we were already used (like in Danmaku games) going 3D would be weird. But personally I always preffer sprites, like in Pok?mon, I kinda miss even the BW days with animated sprites instead of 3D models which at times look awful.

? My question is: did she learn how to use Yukari's attacks (maybe she taught her?), or is it actually Yukari who intervenes in the fight by opening a gap to attack (as a helper) ?

She is not using Yukari's power in any way. She just created rumors about "A shrine maiden who can summon stuff from portals", people began talking about that and Reimu gained these powers from people's rumors.


I know the attacks are related to the folklore and myths (like her last word that I really love so much, it's awesome), so everything makes sense, but I just wonder how does she summon the objects?
? Making objects come from nowhere is Yukari's speciality, but what is the kind of power Marisa uses for this trick? I know it's stupid, but I'm still curious.

Just like Reimu, Marisa began spreading rumors about "A witch who can call school myths" so taking into account the plot Marisa is using the power she herself created using people's rumors.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Polaris on January 04, 2015, 07:44:20 AM
More accurately, the rumors (urban legends) already existed--Reimu and co. simply adopted them in order to control them and make sure they didn't cause any trouble. Story here. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1151211.html#msg1151211)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 04, 2015, 03:32:12 PM
Safe bet is only 8 new characters.
Isn't that too low?  10.5 has 15 characters, so I expect more than 13.5.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 04, 2015, 04:38:54 PM
Isn't that too low?  10.5 has 15 characters, so I expect more than 13.5.

If ULIL is to HM as SWR is to IAMP then safe bet there are more characters. Kinda sad that the demo only has Reimu, Marisa and Kasen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 04, 2015, 05:07:37 PM
If ULIL is to HM as SWR is to IAMP then safe bet there are more characters. Kinda sad that the demo only has Reimu, Marisa and Kasen.

ULiL was said to be a smaller project compared to HM, if I'm remembering right HM had a longer development time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 04, 2015, 05:18:30 PM
ULiL was said to be a smaller project compared to HM, if I'm remembering right HM had a longer development time.

Making the engine itself must?ve been a nightmare... i actually like Hopeless Masquerade don't take it the wrong way. Since the engine was already made they just modified it, remove the popularity system and added the occult ball system. So since the engine is already made, Zun will probably add more characters than in HM. How many months will we wait until it's released?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on January 04, 2015, 05:41:32 PM
Kinda sad that the demo only has Reimu, Marisa and Kasen.

SWR demo was Reimu/Marisa/Alice/Aya, HM demo was Reimu/Marisa/Ichirin. This is par for the course.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 04, 2015, 06:20:09 PM
SWR demo was Reimu/Marisa/Alice/Aya, HM demo was Reimu/Marisa/Ichirin. This is par for the course.

But Kasen have only 1 spell card for the demo, she is not be a "complete" character in the demo. How things are going to turn out at the release of the full version? I hope nobody'll end Kokoro'ed or have Koishi's PC [redacted] ability. (It's good that there's no set date for the release, hope that they'll take their time and make this into a great game)

About the roster, I think it's possible that we'll get less moves but more characters

(And about the new character... I see a pointy hat, a cape, a staff, it's obviously Gandalf chan)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on January 04, 2015, 06:23:05 PM
Ignoring the HM cast, which characters have a moderate/high chance to become playable as per plot requirements?

Personally i'd hype for Seija. Her personality is comedy gold and ability would make for a good playstyle. Now she hasn't much reason to enter the scene and do things in this incident in particular, aside of generic desire to opposing things. Has she any chance?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 04, 2015, 07:38:28 PM
Isn't that too low?  10.5 has 15 characters, so I expect more than 13.5.

Reminder that SWR recycled the cast from IaMP and only added Aya, Reisen, Komachi, Iku and Tenshi

If ULiL were to follow this pattern then that would make it the HM cast plus Kasen and four other characters which I personally do not want, however if 10 characters just make it to ULil that would make Reimu, Marisa and Kasen plus 7 new characters which is better than 4.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 04, 2015, 07:57:53 PM
Well since one of the occult effects has a reference to the Moon Capital... there is a chance either Kaguya, Eirin or Reisen as well as maybe Mokou appear as playable characters. But maybe Yorihime as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on January 04, 2015, 08:05:24 PM
Playable Yorihime is probably never going to happen, for the same reason playable Flandre is never going to happen - they just don't hold back, and the former doesn't even play by the spell card rules.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 04, 2015, 08:47:04 PM
More accurately, the rumors (urban legends) already existed--Reimu and co. simply adopted them in order to control them and make sure they didn't cause any trouble. Story here. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1151211.html#msg1151211)
Oh I see, so the explication to those weird things is on the story, thanks for the link!

Playable Yorihime is probably never going to happen, for the same reason playable Flandre is never going to happen - they just don't hold back, and the former doesn't even play by the spell card rules.
Yes, ZUN also said he made her OP on purpose, so "balancing" her for a fighting game would be strange...

For the people talking about Seiga and Mokou, I thought the same, they actually could be added in the game and they could have some very interesting exploitable techniques. It would be pretty cool.


Oh and for all the people who were speculating a few days ago about the new secret character, I don't know if someone already extracted the sprites but I was bored and made this the other day.
I edited a little bit to make the outline of the silhouette shape the clearest as possible.
(http://a.pomf.se/mxkcmn.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 04, 2015, 09:11:52 PM
Looks like the kobito with a cape on to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 04, 2015, 09:29:30 PM
Quote
Personally i'd hype for Seija. Her personality is comedy gold and ability would make for a good playstyle. Now she hasn't much reason to enter the scene and do things in this incident in particular, aside of generic desire to opposing things. Has she any chance?

She's a stage 5 boss, so I would say the chances are pretty good. But then again Orin and Shou didn't make it...

Quote
Yes, ZUN also said he made her OP on purpose, so "balancing" her for a fighting game would be strange...

Fighting games are not the same as the main game shooters. But I don't see any story reason why Yorihime or Toyohime would get involved.
Also, What do you mean by "balancing" would be strange? It is the same reason why Cirno can beat Utsuho in the fighting games.

I'm hoping Kaguya can make it. I think she is the only stage 6 boss, outside of Kanako to not be in a fighting game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 04, 2015, 09:43:15 PM
Oh I see, so the explication to those weird things is on the story, thanks for the link!
Yes, ZUN also said he made her OP on purpose, so "balancing" her for a fighting game would be strange...

For the people talking about Seiga and Mokou, I thought the same, they actually could be added in the game and they could have some very interesting exploitable techniques. It would be pretty cool.


Oh and for all the people who were speculating a few days ago about the new secret character, I don't know if someone already extracted the sprites but I was bored and made this the other day.
I edited a little bit to make the outline of the silhouette shape the clearest as possible.
(http://a.pomf.se/mxkcmn.gif)
?

It's safe to say that ??? has the ability to manipulate and control Urban Legends. She seems to have a wand on her hands she has a cape similar to Sekibanki... by the way... what exactly tells us ??? is the final boss? Maybe she is the 3rd stage boss for this game. Also, this is the first time i participate in the waiting of a Touhou fighting game. Do Zun and Twilight Frontier update the demo's to give it a little more content?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 04, 2015, 09:58:09 PM
I think the characters who might appear in this game are going to be those who are closer and accessible to the humans. I mean, it's not like the humans would pay attention to rumors about something or someone irrelevant to their daily life (ie: Flandre, Yuyuko, Shiki eiki, and... you get the idea), but pay attention to the rumors about people that they might run into frequently instead, and the characters titles should show what these regular humans talks about the characters (ie: Kasen: the hermit who listen to wishes).

With that said, here's a little speculation of mine regarding characters who might have a chance in getting in along with some pseudo title I made up (it should be okay if I am wrong, right? :derp:):
-Reisen (and rumors about a rabbit that sells medicine/ causes madness or something)
-Koishi (and rumors about an imaginary friend or something)
-Kokoro (and rumors about a noh performer or something)

And there should also be characters who'll try to exploit the rumors:
-Mamizou (actually, I'd like to see a human Mamizou as another character)
-Seija (c'mon, you can shove her up in any story and it'll still be legit
-Nitori (uh, she did use rumors in a mundane fashion in FS)

And characters who fit the criteria but have slim chances of getting in (+HM characters)
-Sekibanki
-Keine
-Alice
-Ran

Anyway, these are just random speculations. Gotta wait for the full thing to see. Also is it just me or time slow down whenever a Touhou game is announced?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on January 04, 2015, 09:58:16 PM
(http://a.pomf.se/mxkcmn.gif)
I started to think of Sekibanki...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 04, 2015, 10:21:35 PM
Well since one of the occult effects has a reference to the Moon Capital... there is a chance either Kaguya, Eirin or Reisen as well as maybe Mokou appear as playable characters. But maybe Yorihime as well.

I don't see it happening, Shou's pagoda was an item in HM yet she didn't showed up. The occult ball just references to many mysterious places. Hmm, actually that sounds like a good idea, could this be a hint of what characters to appear? How many effects are?

I started to think of Sekibanki...

Nah, Sekibanki's cape around the neck area isn't that big, besides this character has a hat. She's probably a new character altogether,if we read the story's mode script Reimu does not notices this mysterious character, only feels their presence as something dark.

I think the characters that will make it are those that either plan to use the occult ball/urban legends to gain power or use the urban legends to make the village stay safe.

Whose fit that criteria?
-Evil intentions
Maybe Remilia
Nitori
Orin
Nue
Seiga
Mamizou?
Seija

-Good intentions
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Akyuu
Kosuzu
Keine
Mamizou?
Kokoro?
Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru

I was talking with a friend and we came up with the idea of playble Hatate, I know it sounds weird but it could be as Aya appeared in SWR and acted like a reporter. Hatate could use this chance to make a good article and win over Aya's newspaper by getting involved.

This is the roster I would like to see, but idk if it would be possible

Everyone from HM
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Kosuzu
Seiga
Keine/Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru
Hatate
Nue
new character
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 04, 2015, 10:50:16 PM
I don't see it happening, Shou's pagoda was an item in HM yet she didn't showed up. The occult ball just references to many mysterious places. Hmm, actually that sounds like a good idea, could this be a hint of what characters to appear? How many effects are?

Nah, Sekibanki's cape around the neck area isn't that big, besides this character has a hat. She's probably a new character altogether,if we read the story's mode script Reimu does not notices this mysterious character, only feels their presence as something dark.

I think the characters that will make it are those that either plan to use the occult ball/urban legends to gain power or use the urban legends to make the village stay safe.

Whose fit that criteria?
-Evil intentions
Maybe Remilia
Nitori
Orin
Nue
Seiga
Mamizou?
Seija

-Good intentions
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Akyuu
Kosuzu
Keine
Mamizou?
Kokoro?
Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru

I was talking with a friend and we came up with the idea of playble Hatate, I know it sounds weird but it could be as Aya appeared in SWR and acted like a reporter. Hatate could use this chance to make a good article and win over Aya's newspaper by getting involved.

This is the roster I would like to see, but idk if it would be possible

Everyone from HM
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Kosuzu
Seiga
Keine/Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru
Hatate
Nue
new character

Also there is also a chance that ??? has a servant like Remilia has Sakuya, Yuyuko has Youmu, Kaguya has Eirin which has Reisen and so on and so forth.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on January 04, 2015, 11:03:39 PM
I think the best example would be like in SWR it had Iku as a new character as well as the pre-boss before Tenshi.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 04, 2015, 11:16:26 PM
Before its first announcement with Twilight Frontier, there were only English words in its title. An "urban legend" refers to a modern folklore story, usually false, but believed by many regardless. "Limbo" in Catholic theology is an idea that there exists a separate, less "damning" afterlife for those who died in the friendship of God but still in original sin because Jesus had not made their entrance into heaven possible yet. The concept is controversial and is not an official doctrine of Catholicism. The word itself can also be more generally used to mean up-in-the-air or unfinished, as in the phrase "in limbo."

The inspiration for the name of the game: This could hint that the final boss might be another religionist we have never heard about.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on January 04, 2015, 11:30:09 PM
I'm pretty sure it's just meant to reference the various urban legends being malleable and up for grabs.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 04, 2015, 11:44:04 PM
Quote
The word itself can also be more generally used to mean up-in-the-air or unfinished, as in the phrase "in limbo."

Probably just that. Yuyuko controls the Netherworld, which would be what you can call "limbo".
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 04, 2015, 11:45:18 PM
Quote
-Good intentions

Sekibanki

While she's not an evil character, she not a good one either. IIRC she really doesn't like anyone and keeps to herself, but being very cynical and prideful.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on January 05, 2015, 12:15:06 AM
While she's not an evil character, she not a good one either. IIRC she really doesn't like anyone and keeps to herself, but being very cynical and prideful.
I totally agree here. She just attacked because of the mallet. But she isn't a nice youkai either
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 05, 2015, 12:22:23 AM
I think the best example would be like in SWR it had Iku as a new character as well as the pre-boss before Tenshi.

Yeah, but only happened during SWR. Besides I-I kinda wanna see more slots for my fave characters ;-;

I'm pretty sure it's just meant to reference the various urban legends being malleable and up for grabs.

Yeah, this. I don't think there is too much for the name other than the story we already know

While she's not an evil character, she not a good one either. IIRC she really doesn't like anyone and keeps to herself, but being very cynical and prideful.

True indeed but well she could be interested mostly in protecting the youkai hiding in the village or something. Maybe there could also be "stray" characters like Nitori and Koishi (before we knew she has the mask of hope) which do not seek neither.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 05, 2015, 12:29:26 AM
True indeed but well she could be interested mostly in protecting the youkai hiding in the village or something. Maybe there could also be "stray" characters like Nitori and Koishi (before we knew she has the mask of hope) which do not seek neither.

Good point, we don't fully know everything about her yet except what we were given. I'd laugh if that shadow was her and she's was just messing around in DDC.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 05, 2015, 01:23:08 AM
I always figured there's a 50-50 chance "limbo" refers to Gensokyo, the place for things that have lost their usefulness. But there will probably be a twist nobody can foresee about this title.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 05, 2015, 02:17:36 AM
Looks like the kobito with a cape on to me.
I started to think of Sekibanki...

Lol, everyone see different things.
I'm sure I'm still wrong on many levels but I see something kinda like that:
(http://a.pomf.se/fzezet.png)
Done very quickly in less than 20min (using no model except the mysterious silhouette). It's only "conceptual".
(the absence of colors and details is made on purpose, since guessing them would be totally random)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on January 05, 2015, 02:49:14 AM
My gut feeling tells me that maybe someone from the SDM may show up since, y'know, they basically owe a Chupacabra now.   That's pretty much as far as urban legends go, yes?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 05, 2015, 06:25:03 PM
Just a thought I had about Mima finally returning in this game and being the character behind the silhouette we see in the demo, aside from general appearance similarity there's also a fact people didn't notice, the silhouette appeared in front of the Hakurei Shrine, and in PC-98 canon it was always said that Mima haunted the area around the Hakurei Shrine. Secondly, and this is probably just a small detail but the purple orb that spawns infront of Reimu and turns into the mysterious figure seems similar to how Mima appeared in stage 5 of Story of Eastern Wonderland, and with purple orbs around her before the battle begun. Probably just me over-analyzing things but I can't help but think it makes sense she'd appear in this game, she'd also fit well in the setting. Urban Legends = ghost stories, and Mima is an vengeful spirit to begin with, so it makes sense why she'd cause an incident like this. Not saying it's fact, but just my theory/prediction for her being in the game!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 05, 2015, 06:57:08 PM
This could hint that the final boss might be another religionist we have never heard about.
The whole religious thing should have been settled with HM so I don't expect anyone popping up anytime soon in the faith business, and exploiting rumors should feel pretty low grade for a major religious figure (they gotta have standards). Also, with the kind of clothes she wear, I  expect her to be more like a magician or something. Maybe she is related to the outside world in some way or another because of the un-gensokyo like rumors?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on January 06, 2015, 01:57:21 AM
So I found out that not only can you combo into Kasen's LW (through her Spell Card) but you can also KILL your opponent without any CH whatsoever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaorjd6Oweo)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Pirated on January 06, 2015, 02:10:59 AM
I was doing a little digging a found this (http://imgur.com/a/O0TeU).
Anyone have any idea why it's here? I'm assuming that ZUN just copy pasted the icon file of the HM into ULiL and added Kasen, but I could be wrong...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 06, 2015, 03:07:11 AM
Just a thought I had about Mima finally returning in this game and being the character behind the silhouette we see in the demo, aside from general appearance similarity there's also a fact people didn't notice, the silhouette appeared in front of the Hakurei Shrine, and in PC-98 canon it was always said that Mima haunted the area around the Hakurei Shrine. Secondly, and this is probably just a small detail but the purple orb that spawns infront of Reimu and turns into the mysterious figure seems similar to how Mima appeared in stage 5 of Story of Eastern Wonderland, and with purple orbs around her before the battle begun. Probably just me over-analyzing things but I can't help but think it makes sense she'd appear in this game, she'd also fit well in the setting. Urban Legends = ghost stories, and Mima is an vengeful spirit to begin with, so it makes sense why she'd cause an incident like this. Not saying it's fact, but just my theory/prediction for her being in the game!

It won't be Mima. In every fighting game they release, there is a new character, there is no way they'll recycle an old character for that, assuming the silhouette is the boss supposed to be the new char. (well, there is a chance the silhouette is a a sub-boss and some true boss will appear after, but it's not very likely to happen)
I'd still like to see Mima and some old characters like Konngara in any fighting game but it probably won't happen, and will never happen as a last boss.
And she appeared in front of the Hakurei shrine because there is only 2 stage available, so yes you're probably over-analyzing stuff, lol.

The whole religious thing should have been settled with HM so I don't expect anyone popping up anytime soon in the faith business, and exploiting rumors should feel pretty low grade for a major religious figure (they gotta have standards). Also, with the kind of clothes she wear, I  expect her to be more like a magician or something. Maybe she is related to the outside world in some way or another because of the un-gensokyo like rumors?
I agree with the fact it won't be religious any more. This is a new game with a new story.

I was doing a little digging a found this (http://imgur.com/a/O0TeU).
Anyone have any idea why it's here? I'm assuming that ZUN just copy pasted the icon file of the HM into ULiL and added Kasen, but I could be wrong...

Lol it's the standard icons, you even have the ibuki gourd (it was also in Shinkirou) and Suika was not a playable char. Icons are supposed to be various and numerous because it's a sort of customisation (you can still draw and create your own, by the way), so it's normal they add all they have in stock (you even have hisoutensoku's logo, lol).

Regarding Ichirin appearance, I still think the old cast could be added in the game anyway or in the next sequel at worst. (or maybe there will be a trick to play them (like for Hisouten->Hisoutensoku).)
(But some of Kasen's physical attacks oddly reminded me some of Ichirin's attacks...)
Anyway, let's just wait and see.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on January 06, 2015, 03:33:58 AM
So I found out that not only can you combo into Kasen's LW (through her Spell Card) but you can also KILL your opponent without any CH whatsoever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaorjd6Oweo)
Since the LW with 7 balls is supposed to be powerful, and getting 7 is not exactly easy especially in competitive play. And the LW at 4 balls is actually weaker than most spellcards.
I think that's quite fair, G.

Though I still don't really like all the SC to LW thing. Hope they won't make it too lean with the stun.
Another way they can do it is maybe to add another requirement to use the LW. Like one bar of meter for instance. So you cannot chain the two of them
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 06, 2015, 03:45:45 AM
I thought exactly the same. It's so hard to make and rare that it's perfectly balanced (that reminds me the >95% damage you could do on Hisoutensoku under certain conditions with some characters and specific decks). And the said combos are pretty cool.

What do SC and LW stand for btw?

But something I still wonder... There is no real penalty (except chip damage) when you block some attacks, except having less chance to catch the occult ball? Or is there something else?
In many games you can just hit on some blind spot when the other doesn't guard correctly, or break the guard (even for Shinkirou the game was removing some of your popularity if you blocked too much).
But for this one, is it just that you have less opportunities to catch the ball or is it something I didn't notice?  ???
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on January 06, 2015, 04:11:45 AM
I thought exactly the same. It's so hard to make and rare that it's perfectly balanced (that reminds me the >95% damage you could do on Hisoutensoku under certain conditions with some characters and specific decks). And the said combos are pretty cool.

What do SC and LW stand for btw?

But something I still wonder... There is no real penalty (except chip damage) when you block some attacks, except having less chance to catch the occult ball? Or is there something else?
In many games you can just hit on some blind spot when the other doesn't guard correctly, or break the guard (even for Shinkirou the game was removing some of your popularity if you blocked too much).
But for this one, is it just that you have less opportunities to catch the ball or is it something I didn't notice?  ???

SC = Spell Card
LW = Last Word

There is a guard break. Blocking too much will eventually break it, but the one in this game is an especially tough guard. Unless it's a really tight blockstring or SCs, don't expect it too break. And not to mention the pushback of the barrier guard.
It's something that I wish they'll nerf.
And blocking doesn't always make it harder for you to get the ball. In fact, you can use it to push away the opponent when the ball is behind you. Anyway, it all depends on how you use it.

Also, add some penalty to grazing. Really, I can just dash cancel up and down infinitely to graze through bullets and SC like Reimu's Barrier!
Maybe a graze limit can be a solution to that.
It's a bit unfair, when they finally managed to make the Story Mode SC a little bit more challenging than HM.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on January 06, 2015, 04:25:30 AM
There is no high-low mixup in this game (why, I have no idea; mixing up based on where on their hitbox you actually hit them--like Smash--would be interesting), yes. Which is one of the problems they imported from HM kappa #KusoToTheMax
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Branneg Xy on January 06, 2015, 07:21:44 AM
I don't see it happening, Shou's pagoda was an item in HM yet she didn't showed up. The occult ball just references to many mysterious places. Hmm, actually that sounds like a good idea, could this be a hint of what characters to appear? How many effects are?

Nah, Sekibanki's cape around the neck area isn't that big, besides this character has a hat. She's probably a new character altogether,if we read the story's mode script Reimu does not notices this mysterious character, only feels their presence as something dark.

I think the characters that will make it are those that either plan to use the occult ball/urban legends to gain power or use the urban legends to make the village stay safe.

Whose fit that criteria?
-Evil intentions
Maybe Remilia
Nitori
Orin
Nue
Seiga
Mamizou?
Seija

-Good intentions
Reimu
Marisa
Kasen
Akyuu
Kosuzu
Keine
Mamizou?
Kokoro?
Sekibanki
Shinmyoumaru
.....
Very Interesting initiative and criteria,yet there is one small zit:in the demo Marisa's persona is coming from HM/DDC/ISC and is showed  fitting under the "evil" intentions field;thought that has a nice change chance ,as nice as my hope about either Remilia, Sakuya, both or additional "Scarlet Denizens" being present.
If so , I am figuring Remilia would probably fit both categories and ultimately step into the "good" one where as Sakuya would probably be firm in the latter harboring some doubts.
Beautiful intuition for those who said high change for other servants and at least one unimplemented master to show up.

On Wakasagihime,those 3 repliest struck me and I checked the sources and my previous memories :     <  http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Wakasagihime> Official profile

"

Stage 1 Boss: Mermaid Living in Fresh Water

Wakasagihime

Species: Mermaid
Ability: Ability to grow in strength when underwater

A quiet and composed freshwater mermaid.
Normally a quietly living youkai that sings songs and picks up stones.
They are not an enemy of humans.

She was affected by the Miracle Mallet's magic power, became ferocious,
and was punished by Reimu and company.

She's behaving herself once again by now.

"

She does not seem nor neutral nor callous but well-meaning and quiet-living ;this is corroborated by zero corrections during Impossible Spell Card day 1 .
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 06, 2015, 08:24:23 AM
SC = Spell Card
LW = Last Word

There is a guard break. Blocking too much will eventually break it, but the one in this game is an especially tough guard. Unless it's a really tight blockstring or SCs, don't expect it too break. And not to mention the pushback of the barrier guard.
It's something that I wish they'll nerf.
And blocking doesn't always make it harder for you to get the ball. In fact, you can use it to push away the opponent when the ball is behind you. Anyway, it all depends on how you use it.

Also, add some penalty to grazing. Really, I can just dash cancel up and down infinitely to graze through bullets and SC like Reimu's Barrier!
Maybe a graze limit can be a solution to that.
It's a bit unfair, when they finally managed to make the Story Mode SC a little bit more challenging than HM.

Thanks for the explanation.

For the blocking system, I just tested it right now in vs 2p, there is actually a "sort of" guard crush, but it works only under several different conditions. Maybe I made some mistakes but here is what I noticed:

? Only works for bullets (attacks made with B or C). You can block any physical attacks forever...
? Only activates after 11-13 bullets received (multiple-hit bullets still count as 1).
? You have to do all of this in a very short time, it doesn't stack for the match... If you wait a few seconds more, everything will be back to 0 and you won't break anything...

This system sucks. I have no other word for this.
There is even any single indicator of the "life bar" of that pseudo-guard...  You can only look if the enemy is flashing in red and pray that the next attack would guard break him... It's so random you can't build any strategy on it.
And it's moreover so hard to make that it's almost non-existent.

You don't even receive any penalty when your guard is crushed, you're stunned for 1 second, and you don't lose anything, your guard is immediately back and brand new, and it's like nothing happened.

I even first thought there was some chip damage on every attack to balance the use of the guard but it's not even the case, for regular attacks, you can block without receiving any damage.
So, basically, if you guard you're almost invincible. So if someone hits first and guards the rest of the match he has a lot of chance to win, great... I hope they will fix that.

Well, let's not be so harsh, it's only a demo, a lot of things will change, I still love the game, especially the ambiance and the artistic direction.



And for all the people talking about the potential other characters that will be added, I personally think that most of the characters will be from th13 and th14, since the cast of Shinkirou was mostly from th12 and th13.

So I'd bet on Seiga (with/or Yoshika), Kogasa, Sekibanki, Kagerou, or Seija. (or maybe Wakasagihime since there is no ground for this game)
I'm sure that there will be at least 2 of those in the game.
(For the rest, let's see if they'll add Shinkirou's cast in this game or if they'll do like in Hisoutensoku with the Hisouten characters.)

(Ps: For the th12 characters, I'm surprised they never put Murasa, she would be a good fighting game character. Since they copied a lot of movements from other fighting game in hisoutensoku (Sakuya-Dio, Okuu-Souther, etc...), I thought they would copy May (Guilty Gear) to make Murasa, lol.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on January 06, 2015, 10:01:12 AM
So I found out that not only can you combo into Kasen's LW (through her Spell Card) but you can also KILL your opponent without any CH whatsoever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaorjd6Oweo)

Pretty interesting, but I'm guessing that the sheer power of spell card canceling will make 200% meter (160% power) spell cards incredibly rare in regular play.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 06, 2015, 12:33:44 PM
So I'd bet on Seiga (with/or Yoshika), Kogasa, Sekibanki, Kagerou, or Seija. (or maybe Wakasagihime since there is no ground for this game)



(Ps: For the th12 characters, I'm surprised they never put Murasa, she would be a good fighting game character. Since they copied a lot of movements from other fighting game in hisoutensoku (Sakuya-Dio, Okuu-Souther, etc...), I thought they would copy May (Guilty Gear) to make Murasa, lol.)

All great choices, we need more of all of them! Also this might sound dumb but I don't think Wakasagihime can fly. In both the games you fight her in she's in the water attacking you. Unless there's a part in the mangs that says other wise, I'd say she doesn't get around much.

I was thinking the same thing, I mean its so easy considering their weapons!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 06, 2015, 12:35:34 PM
All great choices, we need more of all of them! Also this might sound dumb but I don't think Wakasagihime can fly.
She's clearly above water when you fought her, so I'm sure she can fly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 06, 2015, 12:39:15 PM
She's clearly above water when you fought her, so I'm sure she can fly.

If you look at her sprite in game she has water ripples around her, she's half in water.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on January 06, 2015, 01:47:14 PM
Since the LW with 7 balls is supposed to be powerful, and getting 7 is not exactly easy especially in competitive play. And the LW at 4 balls is actually weaker than most spellcards.
I think that's quite fair, G.

Though I still don't really like all the SC to LW thing. Hope they won't make it too lean with the stun.
Another way they can do it is maybe to add another requirement to use the LW. Like one bar of meter for instance. So you cannot chain the two of them
Yeah but the video was mostly to show two things. First off, there are kill combos already (even though it'll probably never happen in a real match), and secondly, that you can land her LW this way. Kasen's LW is incredibly weak because you'll never land it in a real match against ANY player who knows what it does. The start up is slow, and it's blockable AND grazable. It doesn't even suck you in.

Pretty interesting, but I'm guessing that the sheer power of spell card canceling will make 200% meter (160% power) spell cards incredibly rare in regular play.
Actually, getting 200% meter isn't all that hard, I get it pretty frequently (or I just never use it that often.) It's getting a full bar of orbs to get that much damage out of the LW that's the problem.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 06, 2015, 05:46:07 PM
Just a thought I had about Mima finally returning in this game and being the character behind the silhouette we see in the demo, aside from general appearance similarity there's also a fact people didn't notice, the silhouette appeared in front of the Hakurei Shrine, and in PC-98 canon it was always said that Mima haunted the area around the Hakurei Shrine. Secondly, and this is probably just a small detail but the purple orb that spawns infront of Reimu and turns into the mysterious figure seems similar to how Mima appeared in stage 5 of Story of Eastern Wonderland, and with purple orbs around her before the battle begun. Probably just me over-analyzing things but I can't help but think it makes sense she'd appear in this game, she'd also fit well in the setting. Urban Legends = ghost stories, and Mima is an vengeful spirit to begin with, so it makes sense why she'd cause an incident like this. Not saying it's fact, but just my theory/prediction for her being in the game!

Honestly... you might be right! I mean if you look closely, you can see a wand in ? ? ? hands. The fact she has legs kinda debuts this theory... however when you take in consideration Reimu, Marisa, Yuuka and Alice all got redesigns due to becoming older and other reasons, this would mean she might receive a redesing. Also as you said Mima is told to haunt the Hakurei Shrine and judging about Reimu's reactions when ? ? ? appeared it might be her. Also + points for the story being a great and i mean GREAT oppurtonity for the charming evil spirit to return!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on January 06, 2015, 06:39:15 PM
Not that I think it's Mima (I'd be... surprised if it was, to say the least), but Mima has legs in some official depictions already, as pointed out earlier.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 06, 2015, 06:50:38 PM
I find the character too short to be Mima, though I'd really love to have that surprise.  :D
But I don't see any magic wands or sorts...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on January 06, 2015, 07:11:24 PM
If there's one thing we can all agree on, its this 'boss preview' has succeeded in generating a goodly amount of hype for ULiL.

The only thing I find strange is...well, why a final boss preview? Correct me if i'm wrong, but neither ZUN or TF have ever done so before - not even in HM, which didn't even have a story mode preview. Why the need to build up extra hype? Was HM just a total flop, and they're trying something new in a bid to bring back hype for ULiL? Seems really strange.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on January 06, 2015, 07:12:15 PM
What

The Final Boss has always been in silhouette on the CD jewel cases for the games except for EoSD
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 06, 2015, 07:35:26 PM
What

The Final Boss has always been in silhouette on the CD jewel cases for the games except for EoSD
I think he meant that ZUN's never shown a Final Boss silhouette in such a flashy way before, which I'd only see him doing if A. He wanted to troll the fans or B. Hype up a character that the fans were really going to love. I.E. MIMA
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on January 06, 2015, 09:10:06 PM
As per crazy speculation, i have a little, little, very little hope that Rin Satsuki will appear somewhere. Hasn't a fan asked ZUN in a recent event about this image (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:Th06Rin.jpg)? I don't remember clearly, but maybe he said it wasn't Satsuki but made commentary about the fans' interest.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on January 06, 2015, 09:15:32 PM
I think he meant that ZUN's never shown a Final Boss silhouette in such a flashy way before, which I'd only see him doing if A. He wanted to troll the fans or B. Hype up a character that the fans were really going to love. I.E. MIMA

Remember this is Tasofro'd game as well, and they do things a little differently than ZUN.

And for the guy above: Rin is gone. It sucks, I know, but ZUN had had literally 10+ games to introduce her in. I'd love for the main character duo to become a trio but it ain't happenin'.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 06, 2015, 10:07:41 PM
Honestly... you might be right! I mean if you look closely, you can see a wand in ? ? ? hands. The fact she has legs kinda debuts this theory... however when you take in consideration Reimu, Marisa, Yuuka and Alice all got redesigns due to becoming older and other reasons, this would mean she might receive a redesing. Also as you said Mima is told to haunt the Hakurei Shrine and judging about Reimu's reactions when ? ? ? appeared it might be her. Also + points for the story being a great and i mean GREAT oppurtonity for the charming evil spirit to return!

Someone on this thread mentioned the fact that if a returning character is the final boss then it would be a waste. I agree, Mima had her time, just like most characters and I would be really upset if we sacrified a new character for Mima. Don't get me wrong, Mima is awesome but... it would be really disappointing if she is the final boss and not someone new. Besides I don't see that happening being honest, ZUN would never do that, if Mima returns then it would be like just a playble character, kinda like what happened with Yuuka in PoFV.

If there's one thing we can all agree on, its this 'boss preview' has succeeded in generating a goodly amount of hype for ULiL.

The only thing I find strange is...well, why a final boss preview? Correct me if i'm wrong, but neither ZUN or TF have ever done so before - not even in HM, which didn't even have a story mode preview. Why the need to build up extra hype? Was HM just a total flop, and they're trying something new in a bid to bring back hype for ULiL? Seems really strange.

This is very strange, Tasofro has not done anything of the sorts in any game earlier. Could this be because this is Touhou's 20th anniversary? I also wonder how big this game will be or if ZUN will release another Danmaku game this year. So many questions.

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 06, 2015, 10:26:44 PM
Someone on this thread mentioned the fact that if a returning character is the final boss then it would be a waste. I agree, Mima had her time, just like most characters and I would be really upset if we sacrified a new character for Mima. Don't get me wrong, Mima is awesome but... it would be really disappointing if she is the final boss and not someone new. Besides I don't see that happening being honest, ZUN would never do that, if Mima returns then it would be like just a playble character, kinda like what happened with Yuuka in PoFV.

This is very strange, Tasofro has not done anything of the sorts in any game earlier. Could this be because this is Touhou's 20th anniversary? I also wonder how big this game will be or if ZUN will release another Danmaku game this year. So many questions.


Well, personally I don't see it as being a waste, bringing Mima back would make a lot of the fans happy and I do think she'd fit well in the Windows era, she'd also still be a pretty interesting character too for being Marisa's mentor, and for knowing a lot about the Hakurei Shrine's past and history. I wouldn't mind Mima just being a playable character at all either but with the plot of the game and all the things about her linking to this silhouette, I think it'd be most likely that she'd fit the role of a main antagonist.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on January 06, 2015, 10:55:03 PM
Well, personally I don't see it as being a waste, bringing Mima back would make a lot of the fans happy

ZUN doesn't give a the slightest damn what fans think. If he did, 2hu would have an official anime, an official artist who would draw the girls in swimsuits posing all over the latest Otaku magazines, and would oodles of yuri subtext so the yurifans can draw and write tons of sappy and mindless yurishit, while the subtext remains just muted enough so that otaku can still fantasize about dicking the girls.

ZUN doesn't like to re-use old stuff. It's a miracle that Reimu and Marisa weren't scrapped for new characters come the Windows era, and even then he completely overhauled their designs till they barely resembled their PC-98 counterparts.

Mima is gone, people. She's ain't comin' back. ZUN is a man who looks to the future, which is why we STILL get a big bunch of new characters every main game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 06, 2015, 11:33:01 PM
ZUN doesn't give a the slightest damn what fans think. If he did, 2hu would have an official anime, an official artist who would draw the girls in swimsuits posing all over the latest Otaku magazines, and would oodles of yuri subtext so the yurifans can draw and write tons of sappy and mindless yurishit, while the subtext remains just muted enough so that otaku can still fantasize about dicking the girls.

ZUN doesn't like to re-use old stuff. It's a miracle that Reimu and Marisa weren't scrapped for new characters come the Windows era, and even then he completely overhauled their designs till they barely resembled their PC-98 counterparts.

Mima is gone, people. She's ain't comin' back. ZUN is a man who looks to the future, which is why we STILL get a big bunch of new characters every main game.

Just turn it down a notch, you always get super angry about that stuff. I get it, you don't like Yuri. But many people don't either but they aren't freaking out about it. Its Japan, that stuff ain't going away.

You can't say for certain Mima is without a doubt gone. Zun isn't gonna shoehorn her in with no reason. It would be much better for her to show up out of no where with little reason much like Yuuka. That's much more surprising, the reacting people got when yuuka showed up in pofv must have been hype.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on January 06, 2015, 11:38:46 PM
(or maybe Wakasagihime since there is no ground for this game)
But doesn't Wakasagihime swim in DDC?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 06, 2015, 11:45:46 PM
Well, personally I don't see it as being a waste, bringing Mima back would make a lot of the fans happy and I do think she'd fit well in the Windows era, she'd also still be a pretty interesting character too for being Marisa's mentor, and for knowing a lot about the Hakurei Shrine's past and history. I wouldn't mind Mima just being a playable character at all either but with the plot of the game and all the things about her linking to this silhouette, I think it'd be most likely that she'd fit the role of a main antagonist.

Yeah but ZUN makes Touhou to not please fans. Yuuka returning was a key plot to PoFV (Kinda), so was Alice (He made her return so Marisa could get an ally during IN).

Mima has no plot reason to return, specially because the incident does not concerns her in any way. And he also does not take into account PC98 canon too seriously, so you can pretty much discard away any concept of PC98 era to return and be relevant in moden Touhou. Yeah a lot of people wanna see her back, and who knows, it might happen this time but just as a regular character, it would be too much for her to become the final boss,

And there is no way for her to fit this silhouette anyway,  besides she is a ghost and Mima is too iconic to receive a redesign.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 07, 2015, 12:20:29 AM
And there is no way for her to fit this silhouette anyway,  besides she is a ghost and Mima is too iconic to receive a redesign.

Very true. She did get a updated design in one of the music CDs but that's the closest we ever got. But she always has that pointy hat too. The shadow look to have a bow or a small bumpy hat on instead.

@#$% it! Rumia EX!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 07, 2015, 12:25:32 AM
Oh please. Mima isn't going to be in this game. She's going to be the main (alongside Futo and Tewi) in Touhou 15.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 07, 2015, 12:30:42 AM
Oh please. Mima isn't going to be in this game. She's going to be the main (alongside Futo and Tewi) in Touhou 15.

Isn't that the one that's said to have a shinki and Alice duo boss fight?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 07, 2015, 12:33:40 AM
Isn't that the one that's said to have a shinki and Alice duo boss fight?

And then they make out during Last Word.

Surprised ZUN was so candid about that on his blog when he shared all this information, to be honest. Maybe he was drunk.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on January 07, 2015, 12:33:56 AM
I thought it was agreed that she already returned in Ten Desires as a stage 1 midboss :V (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ten_Desires/Characters#Enemy_Characters)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on January 07, 2015, 12:46:41 AM
I thought it was agreed that she already returned in Ten Desires as a stage 1 midboss :V (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ten_Desires/Characters#Enemy_Characters)
A character as significant as Mima being a stage 1 midboss? Don't be ridiculous. That'd be about as absurd as, say, making Yuyuko a stage 1 boss. =/
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on January 07, 2015, 12:59:43 AM
Yeah. I was referring to moreso a final boss preview in the trial - which is basically unheard of.
Quote
Yeah but ZUN makes Touhou to not please fans.
While true, I also wouldn't go so far as to say he never plays to them either. All of the print works are basically fanservice, and it could easily be argued that the side games are pretty fanservicey too.

Quote
Could this be because this is Touhou's 20th anniversary? I also wonder how big this game will be or if ZUN will release another Danmaku game this year. So many questions.
I doubt it has any connection to that, though I would be surprised if ZUN doesn't do anything for 20th anniversary. Another Danmaku game would be great, and though it's pretty much out of the question, an 'all-stars' phantasmagoria would be amazing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Razzi Zadhna on January 07, 2015, 01:10:50 AM
Yeah. I was referring to moreso a final boss preview in the trial - which is basically unheard of. While true, I also wouldn't go so far as to say he never plays to them either. All of the print works are basically fanservice, and it could easily be argued that the side games are pretty fanservicey too.


But the print works are made to expand on the universe of Touhou in a way the shooters, being linear games with little text, cannot. And, oftentimes the print works go against what fans would expect or want, such as portraying Satori as an secluded girl who is hated by literally every other being in existence, Byakuren not being "Youkai Jesus" but rather a flawed and ideal-blinded hypocrite, Momiji hating Aya when everyone thought they were super-duper best buddies...

ZUN doesn't give a fuck about what his fans want. He's a true auteur, someone who does something for the sheer sake of doing it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 07, 2015, 01:54:45 AM
All great choices, we need more of all of them! Also this might sound dumb but I don't think Wakasagihime can fly. In both the games you fight her in she's in the water attacking you. Unless there's a part in the mangs that says other wise, I'd say she doesn't get around much.

I was thinking the same thing, I mean its so easy considering their weapons!

                                                         ,Great minds think alike.
(http://a.pomf.se/vylybd.png)


Honestly... you might be right! I mean if you look closely, you can see a wand in ? ? ? hands. The fact she has legs kinda debuts this theory... however when you take in consideration Reimu, Marisa, Yuuka and Alice all got redesigns due to becoming older and other reasons, this would mean she might receive a redesing. Also as you said Mima is told to haunt the Hakurei Shrine and judging about Reimu's reactions when ? ? ? appeared it might be her. Also + points for the story being a great and i mean GREAT oppurtonity for the charming evil spirit to return!

A wand in her hands?  :V
...wait, what??

↓ Where do you see a wand?  ↓
(http://a.pomf.se/mxkcmn.gif)
:X .
Anyway, the fighting games' final bosses are always new characters created specially for the game, and by looking at that silhouette, I'd say there is a lot of chance it's the final boss...  :colbert:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 07, 2015, 02:15:51 AM
Now that I can see that illustration in motion, I hereby declare that the final boss is going to be The Great Pumpkin.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 07, 2015, 02:24:24 AM
Lol, it's not the kobito with a cape anymore?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 07, 2015, 02:31:45 AM
Lol, it's not the kobito with a cape anymore?

OK let me amend that. The new final boss is either:

a) The Great Pumpkin, or
b) The kobito in a cape. And a sombrero.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Espadas on January 07, 2015, 03:19:05 AM
OK let me amend that. The new final boss is either:

a) The Great Pumpkin, or
b) The kobito in a cape. And a sombrero.

c) Freddy Mercury!

Long, cool cape = check
very famous but gradually forgotten = check
connected to urban legends = check

YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT TO BE TRUE.....  8)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on January 07, 2015, 03:42:05 AM
If her hat is any indication, it's most likely Senpaku Houren (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2jWRXWR6Sk&index=30&list=UU8aJ2ww14TsHe09r7mqSWzw). They both have capes, to boot!  ::)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 07, 2015, 04:11:43 AM
OK let me amend that. The new final boss is either:

a) The Great Pumpkin, or
b) The kobito in a cape. And a sombrero.

c) Freddy Mercury!
Long, cool cape = check
very famous but gradually forgotten = check
connected to urban legends = check
YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT TO BE TRUE.....  8)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/478654MarisaLaughByJon.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on January 07, 2015, 05:31:24 AM
Forgive me if somebody already pointed this out, but the story mode has been translated.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Urban_Legend_in_Limbo/Story/Demo_Scenario
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 07, 2015, 06:39:09 AM
Forgive me if somebody already pointed this out, but the story mode has been translated.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Urban_Legend_in_Limbo/Story/Demo_Scenario

Hmm interesting. Is Kasen holding back then in this game? Also now we have the part with the shadow translated... I'm curious about the occult aura.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on January 07, 2015, 06:47:47 AM
7TC7 had posted it a few pages ago, the hat shape looks like a jiangshi. Maybe Yoshika got enough flexibility training from Seiga.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 07, 2015, 07:06:22 AM
Kasen (and Marisa) should be holding back, it's just stage 1~2 anyway  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 07, 2015, 09:23:41 AM
Two thoughts...

1-
Would Yuugi fit in with the game's motif given her stated ability is "Wielding unexplainable phenomena"?

2-
Mima is kinda the ultimate urban legend of Touhou fandom, isn't she?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 07, 2015, 10:27:47 AM
7TC7 had posted it a few pages ago, the hat shape looks like a jiangshi. Maybe Yoshika got enough flexibility training from Seiga.

It's not, it's apparently a conical hat with a big visor (that would make it a cap, then) or with a squared brim in its periphery. It's not possible to tell which one, but by looking at how it moves (cfr. the gif quoted a few post above), it has an external located volume and doesn't have like a spontaneously broken symmetry form. I first thought the same though, but we need to look carefully.

(For Yoshika, if my memory is still good, you will anyway never ever see her with a traditional jiang-shi hat, so the question would not arise. ZUN originally wanted to make yoshika with a traditional jiang-shi hat (which is relatively normal for a jiang-shi), but didn't want people to think it was copied on some other famous jiang-shi characters (like hsien-ko) and he changed the design of the hat because of that. I don't know where I heard/read this story though, maybe someone can confirm it's true or not.)


Talking about that silhouette, here is a small update of what she could possibly look like (according to the exact shape of the silhouette):
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/529571th145.png)

.
.
.
(and here is one for Tengukami if he was right.... '-' )
Quote
(http://a.pomf.se/jgqjsp.png)


Two thoughts...
1-Would Yuugi fit in with the game's motif given her stated ability is "Wielding unexplainable phenomena"?
2-Mima is kinda the ultimate urban legend of Touhou fandom, isn't she?

I would love to see Yuugi in the game, she's amongst my 8 favourite chars (well, Kasen is here and she's potentially an oni too), but I don't think it will happen... Also, her abilities is due to the fact she's an oni, if you search all the "weird and unexplained phenomena", you could think about almost all the characters since a lot of them are Youkais (that comes from folklore or (urban or not) legends).
And I had the same reflexion for Mima being an "urban legend", but it's so meta to be considered, lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on January 07, 2015, 10:43:56 AM
I'd like to see Yuugi as a grapple-oriented character, but seeing how the game's designed that would make her kinda relatively broken compared to others, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on January 07, 2015, 10:57:54 AM

Talking about that silhouette, here is a small update of what she could possibly look like (according to the exact shape of the silhouette):
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/529571th145ByJon.png)

I kinda imagine the hat more shaped like this:

(http://puu.sh/ebJab/0bfa1699d7.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 07, 2015, 11:11:21 AM
I kinda imagine the hat more shaped like this:

(http://puu.sh/ebJab/0bfa1699d7.png)

Oh my. You opened my eyes. I really think you're right.
Something always bothered me and I couldn't tell what exactly all this time.

You're probably one of the first to look at it this way.
*applauses Quwanti*
(http://a.pomf.se/recznv.gif)
                                                             パチパチパチ
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Espadas on January 07, 2015, 11:15:45 AM
Talking about that silhouette, here is a small update of what she could possibly look like (according to the exact shape of the silhouette):
(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/529571th145ByJon.png)

For some reason that image reminds me of Yumemi.....

Tengukami's version had me laugh so hard i almost choked  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on January 07, 2015, 11:27:35 AM
I kinda imagine the hat more shaped like this:

(http://puu.sh/ebJab/0bfa1699d7.png)

Hunh, now she makes me think of Renko.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 07, 2015, 11:39:58 AM
I don't think the hat looks like that. If you see it in game the triangle looks like it has different line thickness (?) than the other part, making it feels like the triangle and the others are different thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 07, 2015, 11:41:34 AM
Quote
Hmm interesting. Is Kasen holding back then in this game? Also now we have the part with the shadow translated... I'm curious about the occult aura.

Yeah, she would be holding back, she is likely to be one of the 4 devas after all. She would be a final boss equivalent.

Quote
I'd like to see Yuugi as a grapple-oriented character, but seeing how the game's designed that would make her kinda relatively broken compared to others, wouldn't it?

Suika was a grapple-ish character. If they are going to implement grapple moves, its going to be like the ones you see in the older fighter games, IaMP, SWR, and Hisoutensoku.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 07, 2015, 11:46:09 AM
Hunh, now she makes me think of Renko.

Or Yuki has finally made her return! ... Naw...

I've been staring at the shadows just trying to come up with something but it's really well hidden, at first I though it was facing to the right but now it could be both ways. That damn head could be so many things, Zun uses silhouettes all the time on his covers so I find it silly how we get one in game and now theres so much talk about it. Talk about PR goodness.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on January 07, 2015, 11:56:07 AM
As the event takes place in Gensoukyo, Renko is hardly plausible here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on January 07, 2015, 11:59:52 AM
An hypothesis (not to be taken too seriously):

Causer of the incident (or a friend of hers) has some relation with Keine. Her power is hiding history and creating it in hakutaku form (full moon only), but her power isn't advanced (in IN, the player characters could remember the location and details of the Human Village, Yukari being herself could clearly see it).

Ms. Incident Causer did Something Particularly BadTM, Keine erased her history, but people could still remember fractions of her and then boom,  urban legends.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 07, 2015, 03:16:01 PM
If you look at her sprite in game she has water ripples around her, she's half in water.
Perhaps she's flying right above the surface, close enough to come in contact with it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: log(log(Rumia)) on January 07, 2015, 08:09:10 PM
Perhaps she's flying right above the surface, close enough to come in contact with it.

Her sprite in DDC has distortion and ripples from the waist down (i.e. her whole tail is submerged), so this seems unlikely.
(http://puu.sh/ecFrn/81cb0970c5.jpg) puush will do until I get a more reliable image hosting
It's a kind of strange pose (she's sitting...?) but I think it's supposed to look like she's floating, rather than hovering.

Then again, they could make underwater stages (it's probably not too much of a leap to go from aerial to submarine fights, maybe making movements a bit slower or somesuch) and apply the same restriction that Remilia had in IaMP/SWR/Hisoutensoku (can only fight on night or indoor stages). That'd also be a good excuse to include, say, Murasa. But... it seems kinda unlikely. Wakasagihime is stated explicitly not to have a combative personality (so no real motivation to get involved, unlike, say, Cirno in Hisoutensoku or Remilia in SWR) and she doesn't really have mobility (as stated, she doesn't have legs, for starters, and it's not clear if she can really fly, besides she seems to be quite weak out of water).

The backstory, however, mentions urban legends in relation to children. It might be a bit of a stretch, but maybe that'd be a good reason to include at least one character known for being childish to the roster, maybe propagating those rumors, for example. It could be Cirno, since she's already appeared in a fighter and has appeared in recent games (12.3-12.8-14-14.3) or Sukuna, since her mallet could actually have influence in a "urban legends becoming real" kind of incident. Just a bit of speculation for fun.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 07, 2015, 09:37:55 PM
Her sprite in DDC has distortion and ripples from the waist down (i.e. her whole tail is submerged), so this seems unlikely.
(http://puu.sh/ecFrn/81cb0970c5.jpg) puush will do until I get a more reliable image hosting
It's a kind of strange pose (she's sitting...?) but I think it's supposed to look like she's floating, rather than hovering.

Then again, they could make underwater stages (it's probably not too much of a leap to go from aerial to submarine fights, maybe making movements a bit slower or somesuch) and apply the same restriction that Remilia had in IaMP/SWR/Hisoutensoku (can only fight on night or indoor stages). That'd also be a good excuse to include, say, Murasa. But... it seems kinda unlikely. Wakasagihime is stated explicitly not to have a combative personality (so no real motivation to get involved, unlike, say, Cirno in Hisoutensoku or Remilia in SWR) and she doesn't really have mobility (as stated, she doesn't have legs, for starters, and it's not clear if she can really fly, besides she seems to be quite weak out of water).

The backstory, however, mentions urban legends in relation to children. It might be a bit of a stretch, but maybe that'd be a good reason to include at least one character known for being childish to the roster, maybe propagating those rumors, for example. It could be Cirno, since she's already appeared in a fighter and has appeared in recent games (12.3-12.8-14-14.3) or Sukuna, since her mallet could actually have influence in a "urban legends becoming real" kind of incident. Just a bit of speculation for fun.

I wouldn't be surprised Wakasagihime makes it into the game after hearing that. Also, we can expect Remilia  :V playable because of a popular rumor which has been mentioned here and i believe Youtube as well: Chupacabra ( or however it's pronounced ). Speaking of a playable Remilia, she would have the sunlight limitation in which she can only fight in x number of stages. Playable Shinmyoumaru Sakuna...  :V i would love to she how she would play like, i agree with you here honestly :) the Miracle Mallet has the potential to cause Urban Legends to become real. Here are my expectations for Touhou 14.5 Urban Legend in Limbo character roster:
 
Confirmed Characters: Reimu , Marisa, Kasen and ? ? ?

Possible Characters: All of HM cast, Wakasagihime, Seija, Seiga with or without Yoshika, Suika, Maybe Shinmyoumaru Sakuna, Remilia, Yuugi, Kaguya, Mokou, Eirin

But in terms in Urban Legend wise...

Confirmed Characters: Reimu, Marisa, Kasen and ? ? ?

Possible Characters: Yuugi and maybe Suika, all of HM cast, Remilia, Wakasagihime, Seiga with or without Yoshika, Seija and maybe Shinmyoumaru Sakuna, Eirin or Reisen or Medicine




Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 08, 2015, 04:04:22 AM
Her sprite in DDC has distortion and ripples from the waist down (i.e. her whole tail is submerged), so this seems unlikely.
(http://puu.sh/ecFrn/81cb0970c5.jpg) puush will do until I get a more reliable image hosting
It's a kind of strange pose (she's sitting...?) but I think it's supposed to look like she's floating, rather than hovering.
She does look like she's sitting on water, so I'd say she's flying with her tail underwater.  She gets stronger when in water after all, so it makes sense for her to keep a part of her body in water in order to have more power when fighting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 08, 2015, 04:33:59 AM
She does look like she's sitting on water, so I'd say she's flying with her tail underwater.  She gets stronger when in water after all, so it makes sense for her to keep a part of her body in water in order to have more power when fighting.

That would make her a weak character right? Anyway it would be too weird to see Wakasigihime flying, with her tail just flapping around, besides it's been already settled in this discussion that Wakasgihime is much more of a relaxed character, she has no reason to fight anyone, moreover she lives in the lake. What business she could have with the urban legends at the village? I don't think she is the kind of youkai that visits the village too often, she lives a rather easy life with no complications.

An hypothesis (not to be taken too seriously):

Causer of the incident (or a friend of hers) has some relation with Keine. Her power is hiding history and creating it in hakutaku form (full moon only), but her power isn't advanced (in IN, the player characters could remember the location and details of the Human Village, Yukari being herself could clearly see it).

Ms. Incident Causer did Something Particularly BadTM, Keine erased her history, but people could still remember fractions of her and then boom,  urban legends.

This sounds great, I actually expect Keine to appear, she during IN protects the village by making it disappear so we can say she watches over the village. And if someone is using the legends to cause mayhem well, I expect her to make a move
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 08, 2015, 05:04:31 AM
That would make her a weak character right? Anyway it would be too weird to see Wakasigihime flying, with her tail just flapping around, besides it's been already settled in this discussion that Wakasgihime is much more of a relaxed character, she has no reason to fight anyone, moreover she lives in the lake. What business she could have with the urban legends at the village? I don't think she is the kind of youkai that visits the village too often, she lives a rather easy life with no complications.
I wasn't saying I want her playable at all, but just claiming that she can fly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 08, 2015, 02:07:33 PM
That would make her a weak character right? Anyway it would be too weird to see Wakasigihime flying, with her tail just flapping around, besides it's been already settled in this discussion that Wakasgihime is much more of a relaxed character, she has no reason to fight anyone, moreover she lives in the lake. What business she could have with the urban legends at the village? I don't think she is the kind of youkai that visits the village too often, she lives a rather easy life with no complications.
Not that much weaker than Nitori or Cirno. Like someone mentioned previously, the actual strength of a char is not determining to be in a cast or not. But I won't really bet she'll be in the game yup, even if it's possible, it would be weird to have a flying mermaid in the game. But for the story, if Nitori made it in Shinkirou, anyone can make it, lol.

She does look like she's sitting on water, so I'd say she's flying with her tail underwater.  She gets stronger when in water after all, so it makes sense for her to keep a part of her body in water in order to have more power when fighting.
I think the same. Also, Marisa is supposed to be one of the only chars (if not the only one) who can't fly on their own. There is no reason Wakasagihime couldn't fly, even regarding the story, it wouldn't make sense.

Confirmed Characters: Reimu , Marisa, Kasen and ? ? ?
Possible Characters: All of HM cast, Wakasagihime, Seija, Seiga with or without Yoshika, Suika, Maybe Shinmyoumaru Sakuna, Remilia, Yuugi, Kaguya, Mokou, Eirin
But in terms in Urban Legend wise...
Confirmed Characters: Reimu, Marisa, Kasen and ? ? ?
Possible Characters: Yuugi and maybe Suika, all of HM cast, Remilia, Wakasagihime, Seiga with or without Yoshika, Seija and maybe Shinmyoumaru Sakuna, Eirin or Reisen or Medicine
Don't you mean "Characters I'd personally like to see in the game" ?   (I loled at "confirmed character: ? ? ?")
Also: Hisoutensoku cast is not to be expected.

[...] Playable Shinmyoumaru Sakuna...  :V  [...]

Possible Characters: All of HM cast, Wakasagihime, Seija, Seiga with or without Yoshika, Suika, Maybe Shinmyoumaru Sakuna, Remilia, Yuugi, Kaguya, Mokou, Eirin [...]

Possible Characters: Yuugi and maybe Suika, all of HM cast, Remilia, Wakasagihime, Seiga with or without Yoshika, Seija and maybe Shinmyoumaru Sakuna, Eirin or Reisen or Medicine
(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/286181Sakuna.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 08, 2015, 04:22:05 PM

I think the same. Also, Marisa is supposed to be one of the only chars (if not the only one) who can't fly on their own. There is no reason Wakasagihime couldn't fly, even regarding the story, it wouldn't make sense.
12.8 shows her flying without her broom.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 08, 2015, 05:07:35 PM
12.8 shows her flying without her broom.

I know. That's why I say she is supposed to. I still don't think that's relevant to her background and the fact she usually always need her broom to fly. Oh and I was also saying that to strengthen and defend what you first said, by the way...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 08, 2015, 05:10:42 PM
An hypothesis (not to be taken too seriously):

Causer of the incident (or a friend of hers) has some relation with Keine. Her power is hiding history and creating it in hakutaku form (full moon only), but her power isn't advanced (in IN, the player characters could remember the location and details of the Human Village, Yukari being herself could clearly see it).

Ms. Incident Causer did Something Particularly BadTM, Keine erased her history, but people could still remember fractions of her and then boom,  urban legends.
If it turns like that, then I'll be expecting 2 new characters (too optimistic, I know): the-hypotheticaly-related-to-Keine one and the one who is related to the occult balls: I can't find how to the balls and the weather-ish thing are related to the rumours

Not that much weaker than Nitori or Cirno. Like someone mentioned previously, the actual strength of a char is not determining to be in a cast or not. But I won't totally bet she'll be in the game yup, even if it's possible, it would be weird to have a flying mermaid in the game. But for the story, if Nitori made it in Shinkirou, anyone can make it, lol.
Well, If you think of Nitori's story as what was the non religious people's take on HM's incident, then it make a bit more sense. That or they just wanted to put at least one representative of each Touhou  non decimal games starting from MoF in HM.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 08, 2015, 05:23:17 PM
I think the same. Also, Marisa is supposed to be one of the only chars (if not the only one) who can't fly on their own. There is no reason Wakasagihime couldn't fly, even regarding the story, it wouldn't make sense.

I can't remember which book it was but Marisa needs no help to fly. The only reason why she uses a broom mostly it because she thinks a witch needs a broom. It doesn't help her fly what so ever.

Also regarding wakasagihime, I'm only going on what info we have, its been said that everyone in gensokyo can fly, but there are still many who don't. We've only seen her twice and both times were in water, until we actually see her flying or in zun says anything related, I can't just make up she is flying with out evidence.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 08, 2015, 05:59:18 PM
I can't remember which book it was but Marisa needs no help to fly. The only reason why she uses a broom mostly it because she thinks a witch needs a broom. It doesn't help her fly what so ever.

Interesting! (and strange!) If it's true, then I learned something. If you ever remember the book and have the time to PM me the reference, that would be nice of you, I have most of the books but didn't have the time to read a lot of them. I'll take a look when I can.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 08, 2015, 06:53:32 PM
Interesting! (and strange!) If it's true, then I learned something. If you ever remember the book and have the time to PM me the reference, that would be nice of you, I have most of the books but didn't have the time to read a lot of them. I'll take a look when I can.

When I went back I may have misread it at first, it's unconfirmed whether she needs the broom to fly or not.

Quote
Perfect Memento in Strict Sense states she uses the magic broom to ride around on because she believes it's an essential tool for a magician. It was originally a normal broom but sprouted leaves as a side effect of Marisa using it in magic rituals. Whether she actually needs her broom to fly or if it's just for show is unconfirmed.

My bad, It's been a while since I read PMiSS.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 08, 2015, 07:22:21 PM
Don't you mean "Characters I'd personally like to see in the game" ?   (I loled at "confirmed character: ? ? ?")
Also: Hisoutensoku cast is not to be expected.
(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/286181Sakuna.png)

The ? ? ? is the final boss.
Why the Hisoutensoku cast isn't to be expected?
Also if i had a saying in the character roster, which i obviously don't then pretty much everyone would be in it.
Also that Sakuya + Sakuna looks funny :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ElGreko on January 08, 2015, 07:49:18 PM
When I went back I may have misread it at first, it's unconfirmed whether she needs the broom to fly or not.

My bad, It's been a while since I read PMiSS.
It's alright, it actually makes more sense like this. Thanks to have checked by the way.

The ? ? ? is the final boss.
Why the Hisoutensoku cast isn't to be expected?
Also if i had a saying in the character roster, which i obviously don't then pretty much everyone would be in it.
I know you talked about the last boss, I just found funny to "confirm" something totally unknown, lol.
For the Hisoutensoku cast, it was mentioned several times in the thread and in some other threads as well, they give priority to the other characters, especially the recent ones, that's why you didn't see any "old" character in Shinkirou. And re-using characters who already appeared in fighting games are even less likely to happen.  After, anything can happen, of course, but it's highly improbable.

Also that Sakuya + Sakuna looks funny :)
It's actually what I imagined when you said Sakuna, since it looks like a mix between Sakuya and Sukuna.
By the way, it would be funny to imagine, combining the mallet's power and the time manipulation, lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kurtis on January 08, 2015, 09:53:21 PM
It's alright, it actually makes more sense like this. Thanks to have checked by the way.

When I went back I may have misread it at first, it's unconfirmed whether she needs the broom to fly or not.

My bad, It's been a while since I read PMiSS.

I don't know if this is any help or not, but this is a quote from the wiki:

"The Magic broom is a bamboo broom that Marisa uses to fly. It's an ordinary broom, but constant exposure to magic has caused a curious growth to begin. Although the bamboo is dead, leaves appear to be sprouting from the handle, independently from Marisa's magic. Although in the shooting games, it was only something to ride on, in the fighting games, it has become a weapon for striking, and a gun barrel from which to shoot danmaku from, thus serving various purposes. The broom and her magician-like clothing is typical for an actual magician."
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on January 09, 2015, 12:10:40 AM
If memory serves me I think it was in Flandre's article in some book, that said that basically everyone in Gensokyo is able to fly, so people like her just have wings for show.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on January 09, 2015, 01:54:01 AM
pointing out that marisa clearly had no broom in fairy wars
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 09, 2015, 01:58:17 AM
And whatever happened to that weird shepherd's crook thing she was sporting once? Was she forced to return it to the original owner?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 09, 2015, 02:09:37 AM
I don't know if this is any help or not, but this is a quote from the wiki:

"The Magic broom is a bamboo broom that Marisa uses to fly. It's an ordinary broom, but constant exposure to magic has caused a curious growth to begin. Although the bamboo is dead, leaves appear to be sprouting from the handle, independently from Marisa's magic. Although in the shooting games, it was only something to ride on, in the fighting games, it has become a weapon for striking, and a gun barrel from which to shoot danmaku from, thus serving various purposes. The broom and her magician-like clothing is typical for an actual magician."

There is much uncofirmed information about who can fly, but I have never read anyone can fly. Actually Marisa can fly on her own, not only taking into account 12.8 but Shinkirou as well (she can stay airbone while using her broom to fight) but that is purely speculation, since they are gameplay mechanics well, she could be needing that broom to fly, she is not Reimu (who can fly on her own)

Not that much weaker than Nitori or Cirno. Like someone mentioned previously, the actual strength of a char is not determining to be in a cast or not. But I won't really bet she'll be in the game yup, even if it's possible, it would be weird to have a flying mermaid in the game. But for the story, if Nitori made it in Shinkirou, anyone can make it, lol.

Nitori, diferently from Wakasagihime had a reason to be on Shinkirou and they were attributed to two factors 1-Being the fact she was there during the incident, she was running the stalls near the battles 2-She was tired of the whole religious stuff (but lately she used her own popularity to increase her sales)

There are some characters that would never be related to an incident, it's just forcing them into one it would be like during SWR saying Rynnosuke being there because he has weird stuff and a barometer could be what needed to predict the weather.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Monkeypro257 on January 09, 2015, 03:13:33 AM
I keep thinking that the secret char's sprite has her body facing away from the screen/Reimu while her head is facing toward the front?   ???  (I look at her feet, and her arms, but I can't make up for where her head is facing...) That hat still looks like a sombrero though...  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kirin no Sora on January 10, 2015, 03:28:20 AM
And for the guy above: Rin is gone. It sucks, I know, but ZUN had had literally 10+ games to introduce her in. I'd love for the main character duo to become a trio but it ain't happenin'.

From my point of view, since Rin Satsuki is a kirin, and not a human, she can't become a incident resolver for the most part, as all main characters in the shooters are human to some degree. Things like IN's Human/Non-human team up is likely the only way that she'll show up in the shooters.

This does not mean that she can't appear, though. Fighters and other games with decimal points in them are more flexible, and unlike the PC-98 group, she won't be hit with the question of "Where have you been all this time?", because she technically has not officially shown up yet in-universe, so her history is nonexistent and therefore free to be filled in with anything, really... So the chance for her to show up is actually higher than most of the PC-98 cast because of this.

Personally though, I would prefer that she show up in a manga instead, if only as a cameo in the background at the very least. That would confirm that she exists without actually saying anything about her, leaving her open ended, like so much of the rest of the setting. It would be perfect, in my point of view.

Apologies if this is interrupting anything, but I did want to point that out at the very least.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 10, 2015, 04:36:35 AM
This does not mean that she can't appear, though. Fighters and other games with decimal points in them are more flexible, and unlike the PC-98 group, she won't be hit with the question of "Where have you been all this time?", because she technically has not officially shown up yet in-universe, so her history is nonexistent and therefore free to be filled in with anything, really... So the chance for her to show up is actually higher than most of the PC-98 cast because of this.

Or, more likely, the chance is even lower than a PC-98 character showing up, because they at least existed at some point in the first place.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 10, 2015, 07:45:52 AM
Hello, I made a review and comparison video between 14.5 and 13.5 :) mainly for people who disliked 13.5.

Link here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tez3V-yUQw)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on January 10, 2015, 12:20:48 PM
From my point of view, since Rin Satsuki is a kirin, and not a human, she can't become a incident resolver for the most part, as all main characters in the shooters are human to some degree.
Hmm...... You sure about that? Mima and Yuuka in the PC-98 games weren't "human to some degree". Most of the cast in PoFV weren't "human to some degree". Nor the cast of previous fighting games (like you say, these games are more flexible, but they still take place in Gensokyo). Plus, fully non-human characters have often teamed up with human characters to resolve incident (IN, SA., often of their own volition.

I don't think "being human to some degree" is a requirement for this sort of thing. It's not like there's some invisible wall preventing a character from moving forward once they get near the cause of an incident, or something like that. Particularly if they're affected by the incident in question. It just seems like their motivation is more selfish than human and human-like characters's ('oh hey, this nonsense could be bad for me so I'd better beat up whoever's causing it!' or something like that).

That being said, I'd be surprised if ZUN planned on using Rin. Or even remembers her by this point. Sadly. =)

By the way, on the subject of PC-98 characters...... Wasn't there some licensing/copyright issue with Amusement Makers preventing him from reusing those characters? I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere but I can't remember where.....
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on January 10, 2015, 12:34:04 PM
Rather than an in-universe explanation for why humans are generally incident-solvers, it's more than ZUN prefers to use humans to solve incidents, and for youkai to cause them (or at most to help the humans resolve them). PoFV and fighters are exceptions largely due to being versus games. Subterranean Animism was even given special plot conveniences in order to have Reimu and Marisa go underground rather than the various youkai (mainly Patchouli and Yukari) doing anything themselves.


The whole "pc-98 copyright amusement makers" deal is total crap made up in order for people upset by other pc-98 characters not returning to then say it's because ZUN is forced to not have them show up, instead of having to deal with the reality of him simply choosing not to bring them back. You've probably read it before, since many people seem happy to throw it around, but it has no credibility whatsoever.

EDIT: To maybe clarify, I'm not saying this myth was purposefully constructed, but rather that some people suggested it somewhere and it spread due to the above, and at some point started to be presented as fact.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on January 10, 2015, 12:55:12 PM
The whole "pc-98 copyright amusement makers" deal is total crap made up in order for people upset by other pc-98 characters not returning to then say it's because ZUN is forced to not have them show up, instead of having to deal with the reality of him simply choosing not to bring them back. You've probably read it before, since many people seem happy to throw it around, but it has no credibility whatsoever.
Aha! Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure what the story behind that one was.....
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Soul Devour on January 10, 2015, 07:34:44 PM
Hmm...... You sure about that? Mima and Yuuka in the PC-98 games weren't "human to some degree". Most of the cast in PoFV weren't "human to some degree". Nor the cast of previous fighting games (like you say, these games are more flexible, but they still take place in Gensokyo). Plus, fully non-human characters have often teamed up with human characters to resolve incident (IN, SA., often of their own volition.

I don't think "being human to some degree" is a requirement for this sort of thing. It's not like there's some invisible wall preventing a character from moving forward once they get near the cause of an incident, or something like that. Particularly if they're affected by the incident in question. It just seems like their motivation is more selfish than human and human-like characters's ('oh hey, this nonsense could be bad for me so I'd better beat up whoever's causing it!' or something like that).

That being said, I'd be surprised if ZUN planned on using Rin. Or even remembers her by this point. Sadly. =)

By the way, on the subject of PC-98 characters...... Wasn't there some licensing/copyright issue with Amusement Makers preventing him from reusing those characters? I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere but I can't remember where.....

I'd like to point out that your two examples of non-humans being main characters in an integer game include a PC-98 game and a game where having playable youkai/fairies/etc is pretty required to have a decent sized roster for the type of game. For every single Windows game beyond PoFV, which is a special case, all the main characters have a human element to them. Youkai may tag along in various ways (IN and SA), but a full fledged youkai or fairy has never been a sole main character for the normal integer games. Until I see otherwise, I cannot believe that a youkai could be a solo main character outside of a Phantasmagoria game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 10, 2015, 08:00:31 PM
Are we excluding photog games, for whatever reason? If so, I'd still point out that you can solo as non-human in IN. They don't just "tag along". I mean, we got a half-ghost maining in TD already. I don't think youkai as a main is as totally out of the question as you say it is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 10, 2015, 08:52:32 PM
Are we excluding photog games, for whatever reason? If so, I'd still point out that you can solo as non-human in IN. They don't just "tag along". I mean, we got a half-ghost maining in TD already. I don't think youkai as a main is as totally out of the question as you say it is.

Things might go this way:

Main games: playable characters are more or less human (the youkai only assist them)
Decimal  shmup games: playable characters are NOT human
Decimal fighting games: playable characters are whoever ZUN wants to put in, the criteria followed by those who get in story mode vary

I think the PC 98 criteria for playable Touhou characters should be ignored as it is more or less irrelevant by now.

No idea how things goes for phantasmagoria games, though
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 10, 2015, 09:01:57 PM
No idea how things goes for phantasmagoria games, though

I think the phantasmagoria games are like, a Gensokyan free-for-all. The great anti-speciesist equalizers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 10, 2015, 09:13:44 PM
Spell Card Rules more or less says Humans are supposed to resolve incidents, while Youkai are supposed to cause incidents. This is likely why all main game Touhou have humans as incident resolvers. With the exception of PC-98, but I don't know the validity of using that as a pattern, since it was before Spell Card Rules.
Fighting games, side games, and Phantasmagoria games don't have this rule. So, really, anything goes when talking about a fighting game. Fighting games do tend higher stage bosses in them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 10, 2015, 10:08:36 PM
Wait, since when do photog and phantasmagoria games not abide the Spell Card Rules? StB and DS are like the essence of the Spell Card Rules.

I dunno, I'm starting to think there is no neat and tidy rule or system about what species can be playable, as much as we would like there to be one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 11, 2015, 01:39:18 AM
If we remember that the spell cards rules act like a duel in most cases, the way you fight could be changed before the fight begins to what we see in pofv, stb, and fighting games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 11, 2015, 03:05:33 AM
Quote
Wait, since when do photog and phantasmagoria games not abide the Spell Card Rules? StB and DS are like the essence of the Spell Card Rules.

They aren't incidents.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 11, 2015, 03:16:05 AM
If we remember that the spell cards rules act like a duel in most cases, the way you fight could be changed before the fight begins to what we see in pofv, stb, and fighting games.

Well with the fighting games, sure, as there is little danmaku involved, but is there any evidence the Spell Card Rules (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Draft_of_Spell_Card_Rules) are disregarded in phantasmagoria or photog games? I mean, the whole premise of the photog games rests upon the beauty of the danmaku, which is sorta crucial to the Spell Card Rules in the first place, and the phantasmagoria games certainly have their share as well. Absent anything saying "nope, Spell Card Rules don't apply here", I'm not seeing it, to be honest.

They aren't incidents.

The fighting games certainly were. PoFV was an incident, too. For the photog games, it's debatable -  Aya asking random youkai and humans to do their best could be an incident, in a sense, not to mention the arrival of Hatate and her whole rivalry thing in DS. I'd say ISC was probably breaking the Spell Card Rules in the service of a major incident to be resolved, but it sure opened the door for humans and youkai alike to be able to break that rule (if it indeed did - if it didn't, well, add that to the list of youkai-as-PC games where the rules still applied).

Again, I think we might be squinting really hard at the games trying to find a Human v. Youkai as playable character pattern where there isn't one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on January 11, 2015, 04:09:48 AM
I don't think there's a real restriction on what characters can be playable, no. I was talking specifically about the use of "incident resolvers", which is mostly about ZUN's preference to use certain characters for certain kinds of "incidents". He tends towards humans as those who "solve incidents" as a sort of general role in Gensokyo, but there's no in-universe reason why this would be the case. Trying to find a hard rule seems silly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on January 11, 2015, 04:32:55 AM
For every single Windows game beyond PoFV, which is a special case, all the main characters have a human element to them. Youkai may tag along in various ways (IN and SA), but a full fledged youkai or fairy has never been a sole main character for the normal integer games.
Sure, if you start imposing a whole bunch of conditions (must be after PoFV, must be the sole main character, must be fully youkai (ie, not-quite-human characters like Youmu (half-ghost) and Sanae (living god), and even Sakuya (whom Remilia says can no longer be considered human because of the time she's spent at the SDM) don't count), must be an integer game...) you can make any claim stick... That's kind of cheating though. =)

In IN, the devil team is led by Remilia with Sakuya merely tagging along ("Sakuya, I didn't really ask you to tag along." "What are you saying? I'm simply worried." etc..). Going out to punish those who stole away the moon (ie, resolving the Imperishable Night incident) is her initiative.

In SA, both human characters involved in SA pretty much ignore the incident at first ("Confused, the two girls wondered what to do about the geyser, so they decided to build a spa.", because... yeah. That sounds like a reasonable course of action. =) ) Then various youkai respond to the incident and take charge of the situation through the intermediate of Reimu or Marisa. Technically the latter two are the playable characters, but they're not the ones with the initiative to resolve the incident - youkai are.

In ISC, pretty much every youkai (of note) in Gensokyo heads out to deal with Seija. Only a small percentage of characters in that game are human. Not to mention the sole main character in the game is Seija. Sure, it's not an integer-game, but I really don't see why this matters - Gensokyo is Gensokyo. =P

Gonna have to agree with Tengukami on the whole "trying too hard to find a pattern where there's none" thing... ZUN will make a character playable if he wants to, not because past games unintentionally follow a trend or not.....
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 11, 2015, 05:43:17 AM
Well with the fighting games, sure, as there is little danmaku involved, but is there any evidence the Spell Card Rules (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Draft_of_Spell_Card_Rules) are disregarded in phantasmagoria or photog games? I mean, the whole premise of the photog games rests upon the beauty of the danmaku, which is sorta crucial to the Spell Card Rules in the first place, and the phantasmagoria games certainly have their share as well. Absent anything saying "nope, Spell Card Rules don't apply here", I'm not seeing it, to be honest.

Sorry I don't think I explained what I meant very well, I am saying the spell cards rules apply, but how they are acted out can change depending on the ones involved, like say limited flying or only certain amount of bombs used during the "match". PoFV has you being able to take multiple hit before you go down when normally it's OHKO (I know this is more gameplay mechanic but this can also translate into how the battle goes, and with the OHKO we already know that if Reimu looses in a incident she just try again till she wins.), and for StB and DS the "limits" of the battle are placed more on the player (Aya or Hatate).

I hope that makes sense, I'm seeing more and more my typing skills are poor when it comes to communication.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on January 11, 2015, 08:27:53 AM
I read someone's headcanon (not mine) saying that if you bring outside items that affect the opponent's attacks (ie. Aya's and Hatate's cameras, Seija's items), Spell Card rules are void and everything you do is legal and accepted. This doesn't apply to items that aid your own attacks (ie. Marisa's hakkeko, Youmu's blades, Nitori's gadgets).

I don't know if this idea has any canon support.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 11, 2015, 09:12:16 AM
I read someone's headcanon (not mine) saying that if you bring outside items that affect the opponent's attacks (ie. Aya's and Hatate's cameras, Seija's items), Spell Card rules are void and everything you do is legal and accepted. This doesn't apply to items that aid your own attacks (ie. Marisa's hakkeko, Youmu's blades, Nitori's gadgets).

I don't know if this idea has any canon support.

By no means no. Aya's and Hatate's cameras are a special case, I can't find any good evidence but it can be assumed that the camera can act like a hakkero and the viewfinder is a form of danmaku or something. It's really hard to say cause nothing from what I've read has said definitively what it is. (Might be best to not think about it too hard.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 11, 2015, 09:26:30 AM
Well with the fighting games, sure, as there is little danmaku involved
Fighting games respect spell card rules, they only feature more physical attacks

I'd say ISC was probably breaking the Spell Card Rules in the service of a major incident to be resolved, but it sure opened the door for humans and youkai alike to be able to break that rule
Dunno, spell cards rules were SUPPOSEDLY broken here, while in fact it's possible to clear all scenes without using any items, meaning that the spell cards rules is still technically respected, ISC just feature difficult spell cards

I read someone's headcanon (not mine) saying that if you bring outside items that affect the opponent's attacks (ie. Aya's and Hatate's cameras, Seija's items), Spell Card rules are void and everything you do is legal and accepted. This doesn't apply to items that aid your own attacks (ie. Marisa's hakkeko, Youmu's blades, Nitori's gadgets).
Now, that sound like cheating! Camera and bullet freeze are not spell cards but they can ruin the carefully elaborated pattern of spell cards and defeat the purpose of 50-50 chance of victory in spell card battles. Do STB, DS and GFW break more spell cards rules than ISC ever does :wat: ?(their ISCness is ISCer than how ISC is!)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 11, 2015, 12:40:10 PM
Gonna have to agree with Tengukami on the whole "trying too hard to find a pattern where there's none" thing... ZUN will make a character playable if he wants to, not because past games unintentionally follow a trend or not.....

I agree that in the end the only thing that controls who's playable and who's not is ZUN's whims, but I also think there's pretty strong evidence that he's not going to put a non-human lead in one of the mainline shooting games, unless it's another Phantasmagoria. From one perspective, yes, it looks like people have to keep adding all these disclaimers to make everything fit neatly, but it only looks that way because you're focusing on the details while ignoring the narrative themes of Gensokyo. Youkai cause incidents, humans resolve them. This is something they say over and over again in various side materials and manga, and plays out in the main games by always having humans involved in incident resolution. Is this a hard and fast unbreakable rule? Of course not, and in the end ZUN can do whatever he wants, but to me this is something that feels integral to the setting (from his perspective) and he's not going to change it on a whim.

Is PoFV an exception? Well, obviously, but given that it's an exception to pretty much every other "rule" of the main series Windows games (number of stages, number of bosses, basic gameplay mechanics, the stage/boss music division... just... everything), I don't think it's particularly meaningful to point out. You might as well say that because it's an exception (as well as StB and other non-main series games) we also have no reason to believe that the next main series game will probably have 6 stages and an extra stage. Which I personally would think is a pretty safe bet to make.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 11, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Is PoFV an exception? Well, obviously, but given that it's an exception to pretty much every other "rule" of the main series Windows games (number of stages, number of bosses, basic gameplay mechanics, the stage/boss music division... just... everything), I don't think it's particularly meaningful to point out. You might as well say that because it's an exception (as well as StB and other non-main series games) we also have no reason to believe that the next main series game will probably have 6 stages and an extra stage. Which I personally would think is a pretty safe bet to make.

But as has been pointed out, PoFV is not the only exception. We've seen youkai (or at least non-human/not-fully-human) people taking part in resolving incidents in a few Windows games, which is a bit more of an exception than which games have six stages.

I mean, I guess if you're saying human PCs are likely, well yeah - this is almost a truism. Non-humans involved in incident resolution is just not really super exceptional and far-fetched.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 11, 2015, 12:57:39 PM
But as has been pointed out, PoFV is not the only exception. We've seen youkai (or at least non-human/not-fully-human) people taking part in resolving incidents in a few Windows games, which is a bit more of an exception than which games have six stages.

I mean, I guess if you're saying human PCs are likely, well yeah - this is almost a truism. Non-humans involved in incident resolution is just not really super exceptional and far-fetched.

Non-humans have only participated in main integer windows games when they were part of a partner system (with a human). That's not a difficult thing to point out. Now, you could say that Remilia and Yuyuko were actually the ones leading Sakuya and Youmu around, but I don't think that really matters. Heck, the game included a human-youkai meter as a fundamental game mechanic. The fact that you could choose to play solo (after you beat the game, and the story acts like they're still there, and because of the meter system it ends up as sort of a challenge mode) doesn't strike me as at all meaningful.

When there have been no solo youkai protagonists in 6-14 (in a non spin-off, although I seriously don't see why I need to mention that the StB spin-off series is unlike the main series in many ways), I don't see why I can't say the idea is far-fetched. Throw in ZUN's "humans solve incidents" thing and the general philosophical tone of Gensokyo and all I have to say about it is that I'd happily bet you a hundred dollars that the next main series game won't have any solo youkai protagonists unless it's a phantasmagoria or otherwise different-from-usual thing. You can feel free to disagree with me in a discussion, but I'd still make that bet.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 11, 2015, 01:07:32 PM
Non-humans have only participated in main integer windows games when they were part of a partner system (with a human). That's not a difficult thing to point out. Now, you could say that Remilia and Yuyuko were actually the ones leading Sakuya and Youmu around, but I don't think that really matters. Heck, the game included a human-youkai meter as a fundamental game mechanic. The fact that you could choose to play solo (after you beat the game, and the story acts like they're still there, and because of the meter system it ends up as sort of a challenge mode) doesn't strike me as at all meaningful.

So TD doesn't count then? Or the solo players in IN ("not meaningful" without a reason is by itself not very meaningful)?

Yeah, this sounds like "under conditions X, Y and Z, only humans have resolved incidents".

I'd happily bet you a hundred dollars that the next main series game won't have any solo youkai protagonists unless it's a phantasmagoria or otherwise different-from-usual thing. You can feel free to disagree with me in a discussion, but I'd still make that bet.

"Otherwise different-from-unusual" sounds too broad for me to make that bet with you, but I really appreciate your permission to disagree! :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 11, 2015, 01:20:08 PM
So TD doesn't count then? Or the solo players in IN ("not meaningful" without a reason is by itself not very meaningful)?

TD had Reimu, Marisa, Sanae, and Youmu. Not sure how that's an exception, unless you're saying Youmu isn't human? That sort of thing might actually be the root of this disagreement, I suppose. Solo doesn't count in IN because the story acts as if it's not happening. So even when you play Solo Remilia, Sakuya's still hanging out somewhere offscreen, meaning that she's participating, even if Remilia does all the fighting herself. I mean,do we both agree that Yukari participates in SA, even if she never appears on-screen or fights?
"Otherwise different-from-unusual" sounds too broad for me to make that bet with you

Vertical scrolling shooting game with 6 stages and an Extra stage, with AI bosses that use spellcards at health intervals. Basically I kind of assume that ZUN actually means something when he numbers games with integers as opposed to decimals.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 11, 2015, 01:26:30 PM
Hm. Well, I think the basis of our disagreement is only over the degree of unlikeliness; not whether or not it's unlikely. So I'm good with simply agree to disagree here rather than dig in my heels over this.

At the very least I'm sure we can agree TH15 will be sidescrolling and feature playable Maribel and Renko.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 11, 2015, 01:32:59 PM
At the very least I'm sure we can agree TH15 will be sidescrolling and feature playable Maribel and Renko.

Of course.

But just for reference, why do you consider TD an exception? I won't argue with it or anything, I just want to know.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 11, 2015, 02:22:38 PM
Yeah, pretty much Youmu being half-ghost (I think including Sanae is a stretch; though a "living god" she is after all human). And I also think the solo peeps in IN being unlockable as opposed to there by default is iffy - plenty of youkai were unlockable in PoFV, too, and the individual non-humans in IN had their own personal stories in the game.

But, as I said, seems we only differ over a matter of degrees, so I won't be losing sleep over this. And though I don't have $100 to be throwing around over a wager, I'd be happy to make a friendly bet of some other form. Maybe a fanfic of reasonable, short length with the plot of the winner's choosing?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on January 11, 2015, 02:24:56 PM
Not every match in StB is an actual duel, I think. Some commentary by Aya implies that some of the photos were taken in secret, with the subject involved not even knowing Aya was there.  Commentary for other battles implies the subject was putting on a show at Aya's request, IIRC.  And commentary for others, as well as one of the fights with Reimu, indicates they're just trying to shoo Aya away.

IIRC.  Been a while since I read them and too lazy to go check again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 11, 2015, 02:34:40 PM
Yeah I think you're right about that. That's what I remember too though it's been ages since I opened StB.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 12, 2015, 01:31:28 AM
Things might go this way:

Main games: playable characters are more or less human (the youkai only assist them)
Decimal  shmup games: playable characters are NOT human
Decimal fighting games: playable characters are whoever ZUN wants to put in, the criteria followed by those who get in story mode vary

I think the PC 98 criteria for playable Touhou characters should be ignored as it is more or less irrelevant by now.

No idea how things goes for phantasmagoria games, though

All right, while this seems to be true there are many things we gotta take into consideration, first of all there are multiple ways to categorize an incident and it's related to the plot/type of game.

First there are the main incidents, which most of the time happen and can spell trouble if left unatended, these incidents tend to be solved by the main characters which are mostly human, like stated before there is a symbolism regarding that, humans solve incidents (most of the time) and youkai cause them.

Next come the incidents that although, do not pose a threat to Gensokyo affect many of it's residents incluiding youkai, for example SWR in which Tenshi placed a seal on most of the people from the cast or PoFV, where during the flower viewing many things happened which led to even youkai trying to figure out what is happening (although, in the end remember that no one solved this incident, not even Reimu)

PoFV was a special case because if you read the characters profiles not everyone wanted to solve the incident, for example Reisen was trying to find Tewi. This actually applies to many playble youkai in multiplayer games, for example in HM Koishi just wanted to be noticed. Rarely youkai want to solve incidents but they certainily do when they feel like it, that's the whole plot of SA youkai tried to solve an incident but they could not go underground on their own.

However I think it's mostly because ZUN wants to keep that previously stated "barrier" that youkai cause incidents and humans solve them, meaning that even if a youkai needs to solve an incident one way or another humans will be forced to solve it

The fighting games certainly were. PoFV was an incident, too. For the photog games, it's debatable -  Aya asking random youkai and humans to do their best could be an incident, in a sense, not to mention the arrival of Hatate and her whole rivalry thing in DS. I'd say ISC was probably breaking the Spell Card Rules in the service of a major incident to be resolved, but it sure opened the door for humans and youkai alike to be able to break that rule (if it indeed did - if it didn't, well, add that to the list of youkai-as-PC games where the rules still applied).

Again, I think we might be squinting really hard at the games trying to find a Human v. Youkai as playable character pattern where there isn't one.

It was not an incident because 1-It did not threatern Gensokyo safety 2-No one got affected by it. But Aya was a nuisance, right? Yeah, she was but that was part of Gensokyo daily life, incidents are out of the ordinary, even for Gensokyo. The rivalry between the tengus was not normal too, but it didn't affected anyone, just like Th12.8 was a conflict between the fairies it did not cause a real incident.

I would say that decimal games (that are not spin offs) are there to show us another side of Touhou, where an incident is not necessary to know that Danmaku is present in daily life.

Yeah, pretty much Youmu being half-ghost (I think including Sanae is a stretch; though a "living god" she is after all human). And I also think the solo peeps in IN being unlockable as opposed to there by default is iffy - plenty of youkai were unlockable in PoFV, too, and the individual non-humans in IN had their own personal stories in the game.

But, as I said, seems we only differ over a matter of degrees, so I won't be losing sleep over this. And though I don't have $100 to be throwing around over a wager, I'd be happy to make a friendly bet of some other form. Maybe a fanfic of reasonable, short length with the plot of the winner's choosing?

Yeah, Youmu is half human, I see what's Clarste point that in the end humans are the ones that solve incidents. But well, for the sake of the series ZUN does what is the best for the plot, I mean, he did a game based on the manga (FW) and with characters that we would never expect to be in a game.

What if for the next game youkai are now in danger or something and we get to use everyone but Reimu and Marisa? Anything could happen when it comes to ZUN, even if there is a formula, I actually don't think our predictions for ULiL can even be accurate.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 12, 2015, 04:52:41 AM
Quote
What if for the next game youkai are now in danger or something and we get to use everyone but Reimu and Marisa? Anything could happen when it comes to ZUN, even if there is a formula, I actually don't think our predictions for ULiL can even be accurate.

I feel the man thrives on making our predictions wrong, his brain works in ways we can't hope to imagine when it comes to the games. Maybe not to that extreme but I still like to think he just laughs at all of our attempts to analyze what little he gives us.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 12, 2015, 11:20:27 AM
I think that's pretty much the essence of it. We want to believe there are clear and strict rules about the Gensokyo universe, whether in terms of who can be playable or what even counts as an "incident" (a discussion I have never seen before, and possibly worth having even if it sounds a lot like some No True Scotsman stuff), these are just examples of the lengths we'll go to project order and regulation onto what are, ultimately, the narrative whims of one guy. A guy who, incidentally, seems to have no qualms with plot holes, contradictions, and inconsistency. And thankfully so! Gensokyo's magic is due in large part to there being guidelines, as opposed to strict and literal interpretations of rules. It's not orderly cut and dry, nor is it complete chaos. That can be frustrating, maybe, from a narrative perspective, but Gensokyo wouldn't be the same otherwise. It's a world of tendency over literalism. Which, I think, is a huge pary of its charm.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Polaris on January 12, 2015, 06:48:02 PM
"Youkai cause incidents and humans solve them" may as well be an explicit statement of the Humans vs Youkai playable character pattern, not to mention that Humans vs Youkai is one of the prevalent themes of Touhou itself. Adding the fact that the set of player characters in main series games has consistently been Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Youmu, and Sanae, all of whom are humans, I'd say this idea has more weight than just wild speculation. I don't know what you were intending, but it sounds incredibly condescending to me when you go and say "Oh, these guys are just trying to see a pattern when there isn't one!" while ultimately insisting on your own belief that there is no pattern. I'm fine with agreeing to have different beliefs, but this isn't it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 12, 2015, 07:14:34 PM
Not sure if you've read the examples already given of exceptions to that rule, but I think you at least misread me here. I'm actually trying to be diplomatic in pointing out, again, that there is indeed a tendency and likelihood of human over youkai PCs, as opposed to some unbreakable rule, especially as that rule has been conditionally and demonstrably broken (nor did I say anyone was engaging in "wild speculation", at all. Don't mischaracterize please).

Also, there's really no need for name-calling here. It's just Touhou, and has been a civil discussion at that. Until now, anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Polaris on January 12, 2015, 09:11:49 PM
Your method of diplomacy is condescending.
Again, I think we might be squinting really hard at the games trying to find a Human v. Youkai as playable character pattern where there isn't one.
We want to believe there are clear and strict rules about the Gensokyo universe (...) these are just examples of the lengths we'll go to project order and regulation onto what are, ultimately, the narrative whims of one guy.
Saying people are "squinting really hard to find a pattern where there isn't one" is condescending. Saying that people are "going to lengths" to point out a pattern that you ultimately disagree with is condescending. You're using the pronoun "we" as if you are the authority on anyone else here other than yourself.

And telling me "no name-calling" and "this had been a civil discussion until now" is also condescending and personally offends me, seeing as my post was perfectly civil, albeit with an irritated tone, and contained no name-calling whatsoever. Unless I'm not allowed to call you out for being condescending.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 12, 2015, 09:23:32 PM
You're deliberately mischaracterizing me and trying to start a fight, which you're not going to get. "I'm being civil except for the parts where I'm calling you condescending" is a joke. The point about the Human v Youkai tendency has long been conceded, so if being asked to be civil literally offends you, maybe you oughta step back and take some deep breaths.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Polaris on January 12, 2015, 09:35:48 PM
Look, I honestly have no idea where I'm being uncivil, and I had no intention of mischaracterizing you or starting a fight. (I never accused you of saying anything was "wild speculation"--I just used it as hyperbole in contrast to a theory that could actually hold water.) All I wanted to do was point out that you were being condescending and how uncool it was. Saying that I'm calling you names when I'm not is also uncool.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 12, 2015, 09:42:05 PM
Might be best to just get off this topic in general, while it still is part of speculation we are getting a bit off topic by broadening the topic to touhou as a whole. We should refocus on the current game and cool off just a bit, I really don't want to see people fight on here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on January 12, 2015, 09:54:51 PM
Yeah, you should settle this in a fighting game.

Like this one, when it's out.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 12, 2015, 11:50:21 PM
I'm done. My apologies to everyone for my stupidity here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 13, 2015, 05:09:20 AM
I'm done. My apologies to everyone for my stupidity here.

It's okay, actually I think even since the discussion started, when people were ranting over if this game was like HM and stuff like that, there has been a lot of carry-offs the main topic, we simply got carried away by "is this character going to be in", then to "not, because usually humans solve incidents" and like that.

Even in the past pages someone raised the topic of 3D graphics over 2D, that's fine. After all, I'm sure I'm not the only one who begins talking about a specific game and ends up on Touhou as a whole, still I agree we should leave the "youkai vs human" discussion for another topic and focus on the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 13, 2015, 06:23:22 AM
Alright let's keep discussion healthy and change topic :D

Let's go back and talk about characters maybe?

If we follow the pattern from 7.5 to 10.5, there's 3 characters being reintroduced and 2 brand new characters.
I'm trying to guess the 3; one is already taken by Kasen, next is probably Seija. But I can't tell yet who the third one is. (in 10.5 you get a character from each main game between 7.5 and 10.5 with exception to MoF because IIRC it was released around the same time as 10.5)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: farios on January 13, 2015, 06:40:38 AM
A user from 2chan (claimed) has discovered the character codes for apparently the whole version of the game from the .pak file of the trial, this is the screenshot (http://imgur.com/HBMo2kS) he posted.

Note that this is not official and i cannot confirm that this is real or fake or Tasofro just trolling us
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on January 13, 2015, 06:49:25 AM
A user from 2chan (claimed) has discovered the character codes for apparently the whole version of the game from the .pak file of the trial, this is the screenshot (http://imgur.com/HBMo2kS) he posted.

Note that this is not official and i cannot confirm that this is real or fake or Tasofro just trolling us
That is nice, but I've opened both pak files with hexprobe and there are no such lines. A PAK file is also a package file containing multiple files, so even if it would contain characters, it would be the character files or something but again, no such thing.

Besides the screenshot reads things like 'a TRAP' at the top (-11/10 trolling), sinmyoumaru (who is that?) and animreset2d (such code can be seen in the exe file).

Cute though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: farios on January 13, 2015, 07:06:24 AM
That is nice, but I've opened both pak files with hexprobe and there are no such lines. A PAK file is also a package file containing multiple files, so even if it would contain characters, it would be the character files or something but again, no such thing.

Besides the screenshot reads things like 'a TRAP' at the top (-11/10 trolling), sinmyoumaru (who is that?) and animreset2d (such code can be seen in the exe file).

Cute though.

The user claimed this is how he read the code:

Quote
ベクターでバイナリエディタのStirlingをDL
http://www.vector.co.jp/soft/win95/util/se079072.html

心綺楼体験版の.pakの中身を見る
mokouとかshinmyoumaruで検索

以上

This is the 2chan  (http://dec.2chan.net/55/res/4088123.htm)link btw
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on January 13, 2015, 07:44:50 AM
Now that seems more useful information. I might be horribly wrong with my previous post as these guys didn't use Hexeditor to check the data but a process analyser. Though one of them seems to claim Mokou / Shinmyoumaru are in one of the screenshots detected and in the other not. Though this 'Hanako' character is located.

I need to retry it myself with that procces analyser and changed format.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 13, 2015, 08:36:13 AM
Keep in mind that the cast of HM was revealed the same way, which either gives this credibility or means it's easier for a troll to fake credibility. Or for Tasofro to troll us.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 13, 2015, 08:44:26 AM
sinmyoumaru (who is that?) .
Shinmyoumaru.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 13, 2015, 08:50:29 AM
Shinmyoumaru.

I have a feeling that it was sarcasm for misspelling her name.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 13, 2015, 09:15:22 AM
Very coool, but that "a TRAP" at the top disturbs me a ton.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 13, 2015, 09:21:39 AM
>TRAP
Programming terminology for code that solves certain problems. Not a big deal.

>sinmyoumaru
But that's not a misspelling. If you are a native Japanese speaker, you are more used to writing in the Kunrei scheme (Sinmyōmaru) than the Hepburn scheme (Shinmyōmaru) which appears more natural to Westerners.

From my contact with the Chinese translation patch team, I can confirm this leak is legit. In the demo, files for these characters are referenced:

reimu
marisa
ichirin
miko
koishi
hijiri
kokoro
mamizou
nitori
futo
kasen
mokou
sinmyoumaru
hanako
neutral (presumably an empty file)

The caped shadow character's files are also named "hanako". This name could be only a codename. It doesn't mean the new character will actually be called Hanako, or be the Toilet Hanako.

Mokou is... you knew ZUN said he considered putting Wriggle, Nitori, Mokou and Kaguya in Soku, right? Nitori has been in HM. Mokou, Kaguya, and the moon saga as a whole matters too much to ZUN. There's no way they wouldn't be playable in a fighting game some day.

Also, have you heard of the snow storm that hit Japan in early 2014? During the storm, the Tasofro front page was updated with this image.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/m_zpsd98e46d2.png)

While all HM characters are in this list, I think it's still possible this is only legacy code from HM, and some characters may yet be removed. But I'd be happy if the opposite happens.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on January 13, 2015, 09:49:10 AM
(http://i.minus.com/iMYJOKpl3DBNy.gif)

Since it's only a demo, I'm guessing more characters would be a possibility.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on January 13, 2015, 09:52:59 AM
Hmm... 13 characters (3 new ones) and a boss (four new characters total) seems just about right for a fighting game sequel.  That's usually around how many new characters most 2D fighting game sequels got to my recollection.

Would be neat if more get added though (still would like playable Kogasa finally), but there weren't any new additions from the code leak in HM either IIRC.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on January 13, 2015, 09:57:02 AM
Mokou huh? Now I'm hoping for some Kyo or K' references, or even Sol Badguy references. One hell of a wishful thinking, I know. :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on January 13, 2015, 09:59:26 AM
neutral (presumably an empty file)


Could they see how big (speaking in kb or mb) are these files? That includes the one called neutral and the others. When it says "neutral" it could mean that is used multiple times in various places, i'm guessing it could have the most basic and universal aspects such as how movement works or the spell gauge.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 13, 2015, 10:09:00 AM
No, the "neutral" file is neither in HM nor in this demo, and there's no info on its file size. It's possible it will not actually be found in the full game.

The history of fighting game leaks, as far as I know:

Touhou 10.5 (2008)
First of all, Tasofro had been revealing the characters very slowly: only 9 characters (8 IaMP non-bosses + Aya) was known (http://blog.livedoor.jp/totty_surasura24s/archives/50999526.html) the day before release; the two IaMP bosses, Komachi and Udonge were only revealed (http://blog.livedoor.jp/totty_surasura24s/archives/51000483.html) on release day (May 25) - they weren't releasing it at a convention, so they can afford updating their site on the same day.

Apparently a Korean doujin shop leaked an image of the disc jacket's back side (which looks like this (http://thwiki.cc/%E6%96%87%E4%BB%B6:%E4%B8%9C%E6%96%B9%E7%BB%AF%E6%83%B3%E5%A4%A9cover4.jpg)), thus spoiling Komachi and Udonge. The only evidence I can find now is this third-hand record (http://sshiori.blog77.fc2.com/blog-entry-1532.html) showing that the leak takes place on May 23.

Touhou 12.3 (2009)
Tasofro released a Day One patch at midnight; the fans immediately found out (https://hawalog2.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/%E3%81%BE%E3%81%95%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AE%E5%89%8D%E6%97%A5%E3%83%91%E3%83%83%E3%83%81%EF%BC%9F%E8%A7%A3%E6%9E%90%E3%83%8D%E3%82%BF%E3%83%90%E3%83%AC%E7%A5%AD%E3%82%8A/) about "utsuho, suwako, namazu" from the patch. The mystery of "namazu" puzzled them.

Touhou 13.5 (2013)
In January, an American posted (https://www.facebook.com/letthewindsblow/posts/511272048893780) about the roster on her Facebook, and no one noticed. At the end of the official character reveal countdown, rumors of this post began to spread in the Western fandom. On the Japanese side, the spriter for Mamizou hinted at her inclusion on twitter.

On the release day (May 26), there's another midnight Day One patch, which was soon unpacked by Mauve. Some Japanese fans must have also been prepared, since information seems to be leaking when Reitaisai (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14795.msg978019.html#msg978019) was just starting.

Touhou 14.5 (2015)
In the night of Jan 12, a Japanese fan made unpacking tools for the game, and pondered aloud on twitter whether they should reveal the roster. The next day (Jan 13), someone on 2chan took a look at the game memory using a process viewer called "Rabbit-Ear Hurricane" (うさみみハリケーン).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on January 13, 2015, 10:11:07 AM
I stand corrected then, by far!

/me starts digging a hole.

Thanks Cuc for this info.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on January 13, 2015, 10:21:16 AM
Still, a part of me suspects that some of the entries might be fakes deliberately put in by Tasofro to mislead data miners. I think some companies used to do that in the past, though I can't really remember which.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: hungrybookworm on January 13, 2015, 10:21:46 AM
Please let this be real.

I want playable Shinmyoumaru. More badass Shinmyoumaru. Please tasofro, *falls to knees and bows repeatedly* please!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on January 13, 2015, 10:23:39 AM
If Shinmyoumaru is indeed real, then someone better do a combo video with Guren no Yumiya as the BGM sometime after release. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 13, 2015, 10:59:26 AM
Quote
ベクターでバイナリエディタのStirlingをDL
http://www.vector.co.jp/soft/win95/util/se079072.html

心綺楼体験版の.pakの中身を見る
mokouとかshinmyoumaruで検索
By the way, this 2chan post is a troll post. It says you can download a hex editor and find those strings in the .pak file, which is impossible.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on January 13, 2015, 11:24:52 AM
By the way, this 2chan post is a troll post. It says you can download a hex editor and find those strings in the .pak file, which is impossible.
That is indeed why I questioned initially because that isn't how it works :V I've scanned few of the screenshots and they were using process analysers.

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 13, 2015, 07:12:05 PM
o/ to everyone lurking who came here from the Touhou FB page.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 13, 2015, 08:30:04 PM
Please let this be real.

I want playable Shinmyoumaru. More badass Shinmyoumaru. Please tasofro, *falls to knees and bows repeatedly* please!

I would love to have a playable Shinmyoumaru Sakuna for a variety of reasons:

1- She is awesome
2- I would love to hear another version of Kobito of the Shining Needle
3- I?m interested in how she would play like and what rumor she would use
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 13, 2015, 08:37:40 PM
I would love to have a playable Shinmyoumaru Sakuna for a variety of reasons:

1- She is awesome
2- I would love to hear another version of Kobito of the Shining Needle
3- I?m interested in how she would play like and what rumor she would use

Shinmyoumaru would probably use old legends (like the Issun one) and yeah, I agree.

On the other side I AM SO HYPED, because Mokou is one of my favorite characters, it would be pretty cool to see her (and listen to arrangements of Reach for the Moon :v )

However, I'd be a bit disappointed is this ends up as the final roster. Think about it, most HM characters will get their moveset modified and some mechanics will look weird (FUTO NO), while the story would be... weird to still have them. Let the religious stuff end already, what got me hyped for DDC is that we were abanding that and getting to Touhou's "Old youkai in modern settings"

If there is remaining space for more characters, I'd love to see Seija, Hatate, Seiga, Nue and Keine.

Edit: whoopsie, I got more chars there. Then I only want Hatate, Keine and Nue :v
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on January 13, 2015, 09:04:36 PM
I would love to hear another version of Kobito of the Shining Needle

and listen to arrangements of Reach for the Moon

While it's very likely they will have their original themes rearranged, there exists the slight possibility that they will get completely new themes. One again, that's a slight, though not impossible, possibility.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Paz legalces on January 13, 2015, 09:30:08 PM
Hey guys, the folks over at Touhou patching community (THcrap) just contacted me and confirms that indeed those name lists code are real and existing within the gamefiles; as they have discovered this on the day the demo was out
They reported it here but it is in French so I guess we kinda overlooked that one:
http://www.touhou-online.net/actualites/79-news/latest-news/304-touhou145-demo-download
They looked into the game-code and did find the exact same name list reported here; and here is a translated excerpt provided by their leader:

Quote
In game files, next to names reimu, marisa and kasen, we sometimes find "hanako". Also, the script file which shows the scene just before "To be continue..." where we can see the shadow of the probably final boss, launchs a file called "hanako.csv". So it's probable that the final boss is a Hanako from toilets. More, it corresponds well to the story game, which is talking about urban legends.
Also, there is a file with binary data, this:
reimu........marisa........ichirin........miko........koishi........hijiri........kokoro........mamizou........nitori........futo........kasen........mokou........sinmyoumaru........hanako
(Each dot is a byte which doesn't correspond to any character)
Nothing is definitive as we aren't supposed to access those files, but it seems to be a list of characters which are actually planned for the complete version (we insist on the non-definitive term: some characters may well be removed before the game goes out for several reasons)"

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 13, 2015, 09:40:53 PM
While it's very likely they will have their original themes rearranged, there exists the slight possibility that they will get completely new themes. One again, that's a slight, though not impossible, possibility.

Old characters always get re-arranged themes, even if they get a new theme (Like Demistify Feast, which is Remi's and Yuyuko), it would be very weird for a character to get a new theme, again it's not just that I see the pattern but it would be silly, unless that character's new theme is composed by ZUN (Any new character themes are composed by ZUN, Futatsuiwa from Gensokyo, Wonderful Heaven, etc)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on January 13, 2015, 09:51:56 PM
You're probably right about that, now that I think about the previous fighters and what they did in terms of soundtracks.


On a different note, I'd hate* to see so many characters being re-used, especially ones that have little to do with the general plot of this upcoming game. I understand that creating all the character sprites and code takes time, but it would be nice if what has shown up so far is just a "subject-to-change" form of the game in development.

*to be taken lightly, e.g. as a figure of speech
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 13, 2015, 10:44:29 PM
Look over here: BREAKING NEWS UPDATE:
The folks over at Touhou-Online , the community in-charge of patching Touhou has just confirmed with me that the leaked name list within the game's codes that we have just reported 2 hours ago are indeed real and exist within the game file:
Or as per quoted from this French article of their community, translated into English (thanks Lunya) :
http://www.touhou-online.net/?/?/304-touhou145-demo-download
=====
"In game files, next to names reimu, marisa and kasen, we sometimes find "hanako". Also, the script file which shows the scene just before "To be continue..." where we can see the shadow of the probably final boss, launchs a file called "hanako.csv". So it's probable that the final boss is a Hanako from toilets. More, it corresponds well to the story game, which is talking about urban legends.
Also, there is a file with binary data, this:
reimu........marisa........ichirin........miko........koishi........hijiri........kokoro........mamizou........nitori........futo........kasen........mokou........sinmyoumaru........hanako
(Each dot is a byte which doesn't correspond to any character)
Nothing is definitive as we aren't supposed to access those files, but it seems to be a list of characters which are actually planned for the complete version (we insist on the non-definitive term: some characters may well be removed before the game goes out for several reasons)"
=====
So now we have patching community sources confirm that the codes and name lists are in-fact, very real. So the chances of us seeing familiar faces from Touhou 13.5 again (Yay Holy Hijiri) is... pretty dang fine right now, I have to say; and chances are we should certainly hope to see the addition of Mokou, Shinmyoumaru... and the Toilet Girl to the community of fighting 2hu soon folks
Thanks again Touhou-Online for the quick confirmation
Sauce: http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1448046
-ShameimaruNamusan-


Potencial characters whose name where found in the demo's files
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 13, 2015, 10:49:11 PM
I personally hope that list isn't definite, it'd be a waste to bring back all the HM cast, methinks.  I'd rather see a lot more new representatives that'd fit in with the game's context, like Nue. If that list is the definitive one though, I'm SERIOUSLY looking forward to Mokou and Shinmyoumaru.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on January 13, 2015, 10:55:54 PM
The optimist in me thinks that the leaked list is based off the HM cast, and that changes can be made to it at any time. However, I wouldn't be surprised if what we have here does end up as the final roster.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on January 13, 2015, 11:13:47 PM
I personally hope that list isn't definite, it'd be a waste to bring back all the HM cast, methinks.
It would also be a waste not to bring them back, since the sprites and the moves are already there. Might as well keep them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 13, 2015, 11:22:09 PM
I personally hope that list isn't definite, it'd be a waste to bring back all the HM cast, methinks.  I'd rather see a lot more new representatives that'd fit in with the game's context, like Nue. If that list is the definitive one though, I'm SERIOUSLY looking forward to Mokou and Shinmyoumaru.

I would love to have a playable Nue and also a playable Wakasagihime since those 2 are obvious in terms of Urban Legends. Apparently ? ? ? is called Hanako...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 13, 2015, 11:26:52 PM
However, I'd be a bit disappointed is this ends up as the final roster. Think about it, most HM characters will get their moveset modified and some mechanics will look weird (FUTO NO), while the story would be... weird to still have them. Let the religious stuff end already, what got me hyped for DDC is that we were abanding that and getting to Touhou's "Old youkai in modern settings"

Keep in mind that we don't actually know what the plot is at this point. Yeah, we have a little manual blurb about the premise, and a tiny preview of Story mode, but pretty much all Touhou games feature a mid-game twist that changes the premise entirely. We all assumed HM would be about the religious war when guessing characters (and some people still think that for some reason), and then it turned out to be about Kokoro going through an accelerated character arc with her youkai support group. I think the urban legend stuff is equally likely to be a misdirection of some sort, and maybe Futo's ULiL storyline will fit in even better than she did in HM (which she didn't, it was bad).

Regarding your huge list of characters you'd like to see, while I can completely understand that desire (I want EVERYONE), I think it's also a bit farfetched. This game is coming out relatively soon after HM, and even SWR only had 3 new characters, not counting the new bosses. Creating sprites is the most time intensive process for a game like this, so the choice isn't between "returning HM characters or more new characters", but instead between "returning HM characters or have less characters total". Cuc's idea of cutting out HM charcters for story reasons is plausible, but that does not come with having more new characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on January 13, 2015, 11:43:36 PM
I personally hope that list isn't definite, it'd be a waste to bring back all the HM cast, methinks.  I'd rather see a lot more new representatives that'd fit in with the game's context, like Nue.
I think there's a huge missed opportunity here, because it doesn't appear as though the urban legends are based on the character who control them so much as simply assigned more or less at random (Marisa and school urban legends? I'd see Keine doing that, but....).

The HM cast doesn't really seem to fit into this sort of thing as well as many other characters would, for the most part. IMO Kagerou would have made an awesome offense- and speed- oriented character - and werewolves connect up to the idea of urban legends quite well (then again, a lot of youkai/monsters/etc. do). On the other hand, as much as I like her, I'm not sure what Byakuren has to do with urban legends (maybe she'll connect up to some kind of buddhist folk tale? Seems like a weak tie-in to the game's theme.....) But, if the sprites are there, they may as well be used - I think it's best to look at it as "TF has time/money for 3-4 new playable characters, plus everyone who was already playable" instead of "TF has time/money for 3-4 new playable characters, and the ones from the previous game are going to be cut". The more the merrier!

I'm under the impression Hanako isn't the actual toilet-ghost so much as just a name - as in, it's probably coincidental. Marisa's last word would fit in oddly with something like that - what would using it against her result in? =) Then again, who knows - maybe Marisa will play a significant role in the storyline and it'll work out in some way. Nor is it like Hanako is the only toilet-related urban legend, for that matter.....
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 13, 2015, 11:51:30 PM
I think there's a huge missed opportunity here, because it doesn't appear as though the urban legends are based on the character who control them so much as simply assigned more or less at random (Marisa and school urban legends? I'd see Keine doing that, but....).

The HM cast doesn't really seem to fit into this sort of thing as well as many other characters would, for the most part. IMO Kagerou would have made an awesome offense- and speed- oriented character - and werewolves connect up to the idea of urban legends quite well (then again, a lot of youkai/monsters/etc. do). On the other hand, as much as I like her, I'm not sure what Byakuren has to do with urban legends (maybe she'll connect up to some kind of buddhist folk tale? Seems like a weak tie-in to the game's theme.....) But, if the sprites are there, they may as well be used - I think it's best to look at it as "TF has time/money for 3-4 new playable characters, plus everyone who was already playable" instead of "TF has time/money for 3-4 new playable characters, and the ones from the previous game are going to be cut". The more the merrier!

I'm under the impression Hanako isn't the actual toilet-ghost so much as just a name - as in, it's probably coincidental. Marisa's last word would fit in oddly with something like that - what would using it against her result in? =) Then again, who knows - maybe Marisa will play a significant role in the storyline and it'll work out in some way. Nor is it like Hanako is the only toilet-related urban legend, for that matter.....

Then again maybe some characters won't use Urban Legends. I mean in Hopeless Masquerade we had Nitori and Koishi who had absolutely nothing to do with the religious war so... maybe the religionists will try to put a stop to the Urban Legends or something... but i doubt Byakuren and Miko will use them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on January 13, 2015, 11:52:21 PM
Am I completely childish for being excited about the idea of a toilet ghost in a Touhou game? Or for giggling at the words "toilet ghost" themselves?

No? Good. Just checking.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on January 14, 2015, 12:02:00 AM
What if they want to pull out a Hisoutensoku?

The full HM cast is programmed in the full game, however they lack a story mode and can only be used by linking the game folders or downloading a .dat. But if that were the case, it doesn't make sense they added Mokou, Shinmyomaru and Hanako to the code but not others.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on January 14, 2015, 12:11:14 AM
What if they want to pull out a Hisoutensoku?

Then I'll buy both games and link them!

HM looked so boring that I didn't even bother with it, but if the product of the two games is a decent story mode and somewhere around 20 characters, I'll seriously consider getting them.

One can dream, right?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 14, 2015, 12:34:08 AM
Keep in mind that we don't actually know what the plot is at this point. Yeah, we have a little manual blurb about the premise, and a tiny preview of Story mode, but pretty much all Touhou games feature a mid-game twist that changes the premise entirely. We all assumed HM would be about the religious war when guessing characters (and some people still think that for some reason), and then it turned out to be about Kokoro going through an accelerated character arc with her youkai support group. I think the urban legend stuff is equally likely to be a misdirection of some sort, and maybe Futo's ULiL storyline will fit in even better than she did in HM (which she didn't, it was bad).
Ah, but the religious war was more than only a misdirection. HM is about beauty, art and empathy triumphing over petty ideological differences. While something unexpected will come down in ULiL, the story will still end up saying something that has to do with the nature of urban legends.

Re: the cast, I do think there are clever ways to accomodate the HM cast in the story - ZUN watched Taiwanese jiang shi movies as a child, where Taoist and Buddhist priests fight jiang shi in a modern urban environment, for crying out loud. That was likely one of his earlier exposures to some Taoist stuff. My worry has been that at this moment, because he's so busy raising his son, and he just doesn't care about the religious folks enough, he wouldn't spare more energy coming up with scenarios for them. I hope this worry to be unfounded.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 14, 2015, 12:43:58 AM
Ah, but the religious war was more than only a misdirection. HM is about beauty, art and empathy triumphing over petty ideological differences. While something unexpected will come down in ULiL, the story will still end up saying something that has to do with the nature of urban legends.

I suppose misdirection isn't quite the right word, but it's always about more than it appears at first. The explanation for the missing winter is a ghost who wants to bring life. The divine spirits were being attracted as a side effect of a great person waking up (also Taoists). And as you put it, HM was about people putting aside their ideological differences to a common purpose. Obviously there will be urban legends in ULiL's story, but it won't be limited to them.

Also Ichirin and Futo served no purpose in HM's story, less than Nitori and Koishi.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MewMewHeart on January 14, 2015, 01:03:49 AM
My friends on Skype are flipping their shit over Mokou while I'm the only one screaming like the Sukuna fan girl I am... also MY DREAM TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAM OF MIKO AND SUKUNA IN A FIGHTING GAME AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!  :getdown:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on January 14, 2015, 01:06:51 AM
About "X and Y serve no purpose", does TF have more control over who goes into the fighters? As in, they put in whoever they feel like putting in in addition to the plot-relevant characters? Or does ZUN supervise that to a certain extent? Seeing as how the fighting games have little connection to the main (integer) games, I feel a slight vibe of roster wiggle room on TF's end.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 14, 2015, 01:16:44 AM
About "X and Y serve no purpose", does TF have more control over who goes into the fighters? As in, they put in whoever they feel like putting in in addition to the plot-relevant characters? Or does ZUN supervise that to a certain extent? Seeing as how the fighting games have little connection to the main (integer) games, I feel a slight vibe of roster wiggle room on TF's end.

My understanding is that ZUN has complete control, since he's the one who has to write the story modes. The only exception we've seen is Meiling in IaMP, but they took her out for SWR. That said, I'm sure they could, like, talk to him and convince him to add a character that they have a cool idea for or something, but they won't be working around him secretly or anything. Ultimately though, the fighting games are mostly a chance to show off a bunch of characters in a different format, so I'm sure ZUN and Tasofro's goals align in portraying a wide variety of characters.

When I say "serves no purpose in the story" I simply mean that ZUN wanted to show off this character, but didn't have any good story for them. Like, Ichirin is clearly designed for this sort of thing. Honestly I wouldn't be all that surprised if ZUN was half-heartedly thinking about putting her in a fighting game when he first designed her. The point being that thinking solely in terms of who's related to the story is meaningless, since that's not how these games are being written.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on January 14, 2015, 01:25:39 AM
Thanks for the clarification.

I'm sure they could, like, talk to him and convince him to add a character that they have a cool idea for or something
And that's exactly what I meant by "roster wiggle room"

Ichirin is clearly designed for this sort of thing
So is Meiling. I always thought of her as the Touhou analogue of Chun-Li :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 14, 2015, 03:36:49 AM
Here's a thought: there's a tradition in Touhou fighting games. There are always two boss characters (the Catfish is not a full character and doesn't count). The bosses are most notable in that they are not featured on the official sites. Before release, they are officially spoiler territory. Until Soku, they are also the last two characters you face in Arcade Mode.

7.5: Yukari and Suika
10.5: Iku and Tenshi (the only game with the luxury of two all new bosses)
12.3: Utsuho and Suwako
13.5: Mamizou and Kokoro

It'll be interesting to see if ULiL breaks from the tradition. Or perhaps there's a fifth new character, after all.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TheTeff007 on January 14, 2015, 04:04:16 AM
I am excited to see Sukuna and Mokou in a Game, but slightly dissapointed that this game will only feature 4 new (well, 1 new character, 3 returning ones) characters...

Seems like too little, but then again, the graphics are quite bothersome to do, I guess.

If it indeed is Hanako-san, whatever her relationship could be with Marisa? Since her LW is an obvious reference to the Hanako-San myth. Heck, even the title of the spellcard is a blatant reference!

Quote
Here's a thought: there's a tradition in Touhou fighting games. There are always two boss characters (the Catfish is not a full character and doesn't count). The bosses are most notable in that they are not featured on the official sites. Before release, they are officially spoiler territory. Until Soku, they are also the last two characters you face in Arcade Mode.

7.5: Yukari and Suika
10.5: Iku and Tenshi (the only game with the luxury of two all new bosses)
12.3: Utsuho and Suwako
13.5: Mamizou and Kokoro

It'll be interesting to see if ULiL breaks from the tradition. Or perhaps there's a fifth new character, after all.

Counter Argumenting that Mamizou was indeed mentioned in the leak of that Facebook User, while she was not mentioned in the official site. Unless that neutral (?) spot belongs to that character, I doubt this game will do such a thing. Also, given that Kasen seems to know about the Occult Ball and all, what are the chances she herself is not the "Stage 5 Boss" of this game?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on January 14, 2015, 04:23:07 AM
So Mokou's gonna have her big break in a fighter, eh? So like her and Nitori, I wonder if this means Wriggle will get a spot?

Also, as far as this Hanako character goes, I wonder if she'll just be a normal character as opposed to a boss character? If she's named after the toilet ghost, which is  involved in Marisa's Strange Last Word, would she just be a character birthed from this new incident?

I dunno, I'd just find it nice to have 2 new characters for the price of one in another fighter.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 14, 2015, 04:32:07 AM
I'm still expecting the game to have 5, perhaps that "neutral" slot will get to be used.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 14, 2015, 04:37:36 AM
If we are to follow the "pattern" in 10.5, then it's all the characters from 7.5 (barring the Meiling DLC) plus five new characters, three of which are existing characters and two are brand new.  I said 2 brand new characters because if Hanako is only the penultimate boss, then it's likely that the final boss's name isn't in the demo.  If I remember correctly, Kokoro's name isn't in 13.5's demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 14, 2015, 04:47:26 AM
If we are to follow the "pattern" in 10.5, then it's all the characters from 7.5 (barring the Meiling DLC) plus five new characters, three of which are taken from existing medias and 2 are brand new.  I said 2 brand new because if Hanako is only the penultimate boss, then it's likely that the final boss's name isn't in the demo.  If I remember correctly, Kokoro's name isn't in 13.5's demo.

I'm betting for this.
Perhaps they intentionally hide the final boss character completely !!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on January 14, 2015, 04:51:23 AM
I'm also expecting the blank "neutral" pointer to be used, likely for the final boss. Having Hanako as the pre-final-boss could work, which further supports that idea.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on January 14, 2015, 05:41:12 AM
...I can't help but wonder is Tasofro is messing with everyone. Not that I'd be at all upset with the listed characters, but can you imagine doing Marisa's strange last word on Hanako? There are other reasons I'm doubtful but I'm not going to make a list of them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 14, 2015, 09:31:40 AM
What if they want to pull out a Hisoutensoku?

The full HM cast is programmed in the full game, however they lack a story mode and can only be used by linking the game folders or downloading a .dat. But if that were the case, it doesn't make sense they added Mokou, Shinmyomaru and Hanako to the code but not others.
I think that's exactly where they're going, minus the last bit due to the game mechanics being significantly changed.

My understanding is that ZUN has complete control, since he's the one who has to write the story modes. The only exception we've seen is Meiling in IaMP, but they took her out for SWR. That said, I'm sure they could, like, talk to him and convince him to add a character that they have a cool idea for or something, but they won't be working around him secretly or anything. Ultimately though, the fighting games are mostly a chance to show off a bunch of characters in a different format, so I'm sure ZUN and Tasofro's goals align in portraying a wide variety of characters.

When I say "serves no purpose in the story" I simply mean that ZUN wanted to show off this character, but didn't have any good story for them. Like, Ichirin is clearly designed for this sort of thing. Honestly I wouldn't be all that surprised if ZUN was half-heartedly thinking about putting her in a fighting game when he first designed her. The point being that thinking solely in terms of who's related to the story is meaningless, since that's not how these games are being written.
If true, part of me that dreads how this game will turn out will gain momentum.  IMHO, ZUN has not impressed me as a story writer.  The story in the danmaku games are really simple if you think about it, and most side materials usually has the story by someone else with ZUN overseeing it instead.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: farios on January 14, 2015, 09:59:18 AM
I think that's exactly where they're going, minus the last bit due to the game mechanics being significantly changed.
If true, part of me that dreads how this game will turn out will gain momentum.  IMHO, ZUN has not impressed me as a story writer.  The story in the danmaku games are really simple if you think about it, and most side materials usually has the story by someone else with ZUN overseeing it instead.

Ehh, you do realize that the main games consists of under 200 re-used dialogues right? My point is, of course it is simple because it was meant to be simple, it almost always follow the pattern:
 
Stage 6(A) boss caused an incident > MCs beats the crap out of A plus other boss who is either involved with A or just passing by > A introspects and all is well > Extra Story

I said almost because UFO does not follow the pattern, besides didn't ZUN writes the story for the side materials?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on January 14, 2015, 10:19:33 AM
most side materials usually has the story by someone else with ZUN overseeing it instead.

Where do people get this from? Writing the manga is ZUN's job.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on January 14, 2015, 11:16:01 AM
ZUN is actually a pretty decent writer. I mean, he's good enough to get so many people to buy into his tidbits of lore that he tosses out here and there and turn them into a massive sprawling enterprise of fan canon and doujin  :V

At any rate, they've stated ULiL is a full sequel, while Hisoutensoku was advertised as an expansion pack, so odds are good that the HM cast will have full story roles, and that you will not have to own both (Much like how you don't need to own MiAP to play as its cast in SWR). As for why Hanako's mentioned in the coding - likely because her sprite's in the game, and they referred to her by her name in the coding because they figured nobody'd dig through it (those assumptions people). Having only one new touhou isn't exactly unheard of, either - SWR's the only one that's had two newhus. MaIP also lacked any real "semi-final boss," so it's not impossible we might just have different stories this time around. Right that was Yukari, my bad.

That being said, this isn't actually the first time Hanako-san has been referred to by the games. Double Spoiler 12-6 "Hanako-san in the toilet." A nue spell card, so makes you wonder if she'll be shipped with Nue. And as for the concerns about the strangeness of using Marisa's Strange Last Word, it's likely that, assuming this is true, ZUN is treating the Hanako-san that is the hand in the toilet and the Hanako-san that is the girl in the bathroom stall as separate people (Which would still be rather strange but its own brand of strangeness).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 14, 2015, 11:50:34 AM
I see no real issues. If Sanae can use Suwako to beat down on Suwako, Marisa can use Hanako to beat down on Hanako. If assuming Hanako is a playable character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on January 14, 2015, 12:09:45 PM
I see no real issues. If Sanae can use Suwako to beat down on Suwako, Marisa can use Hanako to beat down on Hanako. If assuming Hanako is a playable character.
But there's a reason for that. Gods can make supposedly infinite copies of themselves(explained in SoPM article for either Suwako or Kanako). So the Suwako and Kanako that Sanae calls are copies.

And guys, honestly, she's just named Hanako. Doesn't mean she's the toilet ghost. Obviously, she's Yuuka in disguise.
I still hope for the sombrero wearing, El Mariachi
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 14, 2015, 12:12:19 PM
Or there are more than one Hanako.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 14, 2015, 01:09:26 PM
ZUN is actually a pretty decent writer. I mean, he's good enough to get so many people to buy into his tidbits of lore that he tosses out here and there and turn them into a massive sprawling enterprise of fan canon and doujin  :V

The manga aren't... the greatest thing ever or anything, but I really like his style in both PMiSS and SoPM. It's just fun reading those. And I needn't mention that CiLR is his masterpiece.

Anyway, fighting games tend to have bad storytelling because of the repetitiveness of giving each character a story mode. That's just... not good for storytelling. Pretty simple. So the storytelling will be bad unless they decide to depart from this model. That doesn't necessarily mean the story itself is bad, but eh. It's a fighting game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on January 14, 2015, 01:28:01 PM
If I'm honest with you people, something tells me that this Hanako person might not be the Hanako we are thinking about. Well, not directly. I just feel like there has to be more to this than have some ghost in the WC to be the final boss.

Though is Marisa's Last Word be in line with the myth where if you try to sit on a traditional toilet, a hand comes out of the toilet to grab you? Or is it the same tale, I don't know. Okay, the Marisa's Last Word makes direct reference to it. But hey, maybe they will change it later.

I am probably looking out for Mokou the most, simply to see where they are going with her character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on January 14, 2015, 01:46:50 PM
What if they want to pull out a Hisoutensoku?

The full HM cast is programmed in the full game, however they lack a story mode and can only be used by linking the game folders or downloading a .dat.
Highly unlikely considering ULIL is being treated as a full-fledged rather than an expansion, so expect every character to have a story like in SWR.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on January 14, 2015, 03:22:06 PM
Where do people get this from? Writing the manga is ZUN's job.

Maybe he just got it from Inaba of the Moon and Earth and extended it to all Touhou side works.  In truth, only Inaba wasn't written by ZUN.  IIRC all the others were 100% written by him, and Clarste even got a source in the first "ZUN Status" thread where other manga writers felt ZUN didn't give the manga writes (Moe, IIRC) enough freedom (the implication being that ZUN dictated even minor details, like background appearance cameos)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 14, 2015, 04:02:53 PM
What if they want to pull out a Hisoutensoku?

The full HM cast is programmed in the full game, however they lack a story mode and can only be used by linking the game folders or downloading a .dat. But if that were the case, it doesn't make sense they added Mokou, Shinmyomaru and Hanako to the code but not others.

Actually it looks like it's gonna be a SWR here, considering the low amount of characters, probably the religious arc is not over...

Anyway, fighting games tend to have bad storytelling because of the repetitiveness of giving each character a story mode. That's just... not good for storytelling. Pretty simple. So the storytelling will be bad unless they decide to depart from this model. That doesn't necessarily mean the story itself is bad, but eh. It's a fighting game.

SWR pulled this off pretty well, yes there was a lot of fighting and dull dialogue but somehow it worked, it managed to include all 15 characters without any alternate story or anything, it even did better than HM (All of HM's story modes took place, even if it doesn't look like it) and not all characters participated into the incident, take Remilia for example who was at her mansion to interrogate suspicious people or Aya, who was working on her newspaper and ended up fighting a pissed off Reimu.

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 14, 2015, 04:26:07 PM
SWR pulled this off pretty well, yes there was a lot of fighting and dull dialogue but somehow it worked, it managed to include all 15 characters without any alternate story or anything, it even did better than HM (All of HM's story modes took place, even if it doesn't look like it) and not all characters participated into the incident, take Remilia for example who was at her mansion to interrogate suspicious people or Aya, who was working on her newspaper and ended up fighting a pissed off Reimu.

Personally, I found SWR dreadfully dull because it was just a bunch of random people doing stuff. I guess it works as a sort of slice-of-life thing, but as a story I think it failed. I mean, yeah, it's cool to see Komachi telling fortunes or Remilia kidnapping people, but then I also had to sit through Reisen doing... I don't even know because I can't remember. And 12 other people doing... things? What I'm saying is that the disparate nature of it made it all totally unmemorable. It was like reading through BAiJR except I had to fight the same people over and over again. Repetitive fights can also bring a story down.

Also HM's story modes totally look like they all take place (except you Futo...!). You just have to do them in order and the story plays out in a pretty straightforward manner. The point being that no one actually managed to solve Kokoro's problem until Mamizou. You can also boil down each character's route to "what they did for Kokoro" which makes them easy to remember. I guess all the pre-Mamizou fights in each route being pointless is a flaw, although frankly fighting random people for no reason is what the first half of Touhou games is all about.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 14, 2015, 04:27:06 PM
In truth, only Inaba wasn't written by ZUN.
He still came up with story ideas, but he let the author have his freedom with the contents of the chapters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 14, 2015, 04:29:20 PM
He still came up with story ideas, but he let the author have his freedom with the contents of the chapters.

The explanation being that he chose the artist for their sense of humor, so telling them what jokes to make would defeat the point entirely.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on January 14, 2015, 05:14:58 PM
The explanation being that he chose the artist for their sense of humor, so telling them what jokes to make would defeat the point entirely.

Yea, I should have mentioned that.  That doesn't have much relevance to ZUN's writing ability, but it actually kinda irks me when people brush off the entirety of Inaba as entirely "not canon" when the skeleton of the plot was at least made in part by ZUN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 14, 2015, 06:16:53 PM
If Shinmyoumaru Sakuna is appearing as a playable character... the possibility that the Miracle Mallet is involved in the Urban Legends appearing in Gensokyo might not be farfetched.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 14, 2015, 06:56:44 PM
I like this idea of the silhouette being a pre-final-boss instead of the main antagonist, it'd give them an excuse to add 2 characters, possibly new or returning. Either way though I don't think the Hanako character will literally be a Hanako, it seems more like a nickname or something for an unfinished character slot to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 15, 2015, 04:54:47 AM
The explanation being that he chose the artist for their sense of humor, so telling them what jokes to make would defeat the point entirely.
What I mean is that he, like, says "Why not let this chapter be about this topic?" Then he lets the author do everything by himself after that.  Just coming up with a topic, that's all, no details or anything.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on January 15, 2015, 05:43:10 AM
Quote
Mokou

aaaaand this is officially the best fighter game
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 15, 2015, 06:35:08 AM
Quote
Actually it looks like it's gonna be a SWR here, considering the low amount of characters, probably the religious arc is not over...

There is no religious arc... It was finalized during Symposium of Mysticism.

Quote
Personally, I found SWR dreadfully dull because it was just a bunch of random people doing stuff. I guess it works as a sort of slice-of-life thing, but as a story  I think it failed.

Yeah, different tastes. I enjoyed Scarlet Weather Rhapsody's story layout, more so than Immaterial and Missing Power and Hisoutensoku, but Hisoutensoku wasn't a full game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 17, 2015, 05:50:39 PM
There is no religious arc... It was finalized during Symposium of Mysticism.

Yeah, different tastes. I enjoyed Scarlet Weather Rhapsody's story layout, more so than Immaterial and Missing Power and Hisoutensoku, but Hisoutensoku wasn't a full game.

Well since this is another fighting game, then that means the story, like the other games will have a timeline. I?m already going to say this, if Kokoro is playable, then maybe ? ? ? will be another enemy for her or maybe they know each other, since this is also a sequel for Hopeless Masquerade. I think Hanako will be a subordinate of the real final boss... i mean the translated dialogue implies the encounter with Reimu happens after stage 2 meaning it's stage 3 which means... it can't be the final boss.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 17, 2015, 06:43:33 PM
Well since this is another fighting game, then that means the story, like the other games will have a timeline. I?m already going to say this, if Kokoro is playable, then maybe ? ? ? will be another enemy for her or maybe they know each other, since this is also a sequel for Hopeless Masquerade. I think Hanako will be a subordinate of the real final boss... i mean the translated dialogue implies the encounter with Reimu happens after stage 2 meaning it's stage 3 which means... it can't be the final boss.

Don't look into that too hard, it is still just a demo. I may change once it's out.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 17, 2015, 10:06:45 PM
Quote
I?m already going to say this, if Kokoro is playable, then maybe ? ? ? will be another enemy for her or maybe they know each other, since this is also a sequel for Hopeless Masquerade. I think Hanako will be a subordinate of the real final boss... i mean the translated dialogue implies the encounter with Reimu happens after stage 2 meaning it's stage 3 which means... it can't be the final boss.

Well, if they called it a sequel, then, maybe. For Immaterial and Missing Power to Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, there are no relations between the final boss of IaMP and SWR. But I would think Hanako would not be the final boss either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 20, 2015, 07:45:40 PM
Thinking about it now, I'm a bit skeptical about how the rest of the HM cast would return, whilst it would be easy to bring them back since their sprites and moves are done and whatnot, wouldn't it be hard to relate them to urban legends with their last words and their occult phenomeon? I mean, I could see it happening with Koishi and Mamizou definitely, but the other characters it doesn't seem like it'd fit that well. Unless tasofro either thinks up appropriate urban legends to tie around each character or just instead gives them the same Last Words as in the previous game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 20, 2015, 08:46:50 PM
Thinking about it now, I'm a bit skeptical about how the rest of the HM cast would return, whilst it would be easy to bring them back since their sprites and moves are done and whatnot, wouldn't it be hard to relate them to urban legends with their last words and their occult phenomeon? I mean, I could see it happening with Koishi and Mamizou definitely, but the other characters it doesn't seem like it'd fit that well. Unless tasofro either thinks up appropriate urban legends to tie around each character or just instead gives them the same Last Words as in the previous game.
I think they'll return, but it'll be a situation similar to how Soku was to SWR;  You need the original game to have the full roster, otherwise the game will only have a pathetically small roster.  And the old characters won't have a storyline for themselves, nor will they be featured much.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 20, 2015, 08:51:04 PM
I think they'll return, but it'll be a situation similar to how Soku was to SWR;  You need the original game to have the full roster, otherwise the game will only have a pathetically small roster.  And the old characters won't have a storyline for themselves, nor will they be featured much.
I somewhat doubt that, personally I think the character names might be placeholders for different characters. It's been stated that ULiL will be a sequel, not an expansion so it'd seem a bit odd for the game to have only 5 storyline characters, as compared to Hopeless Masquerade where every character had a story path. Although the idea of a link between the two like in Soku and SWR sounds like it'll definitely be possible.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 20, 2015, 08:58:37 PM
Another thing to dread about this game;  Anyone else notice the backgrounds?

They're flat.  Completely and totally flat.  No animation or perspective tricks.  It's just a single, unchanging flat image.  I hope they're either placeholders or there's a very good reason for it in game, but my dread for this game goes up even higher.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 20, 2015, 09:04:51 PM
Another thing to dread about this game;  Anyone else notice the backgrounds?

They're flat.  Completely and totally flat.  No animation or perspective tricks.  It's just a single, unchanging flat image.  I hope they're either placeholders or there's a very good reason for it in game, but my dread for this game goes up even higher.

It's a demo, I doubt there won't be any life in the background, it did add some uniqueness to some stages, UNL, IaMP and SWR didn't really have any background features either though so I wouldn't be too upset about it. I'm more excited for the characters and the music than what's going on in the background though so meh.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 20, 2015, 10:08:04 PM
Also, another thing I thought of. If the mysterious silhouette doesn't turn out to be a returning character, I predict that it'll be a character based off of the urban legend of the  Aka Manto  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aka_Manto), because of how the Aka Manto is one of the few (If not only) figures in a Japanese urban legend to wear a/be related to a cape, like the silhouette.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 20, 2015, 11:51:59 PM
Also, another thing I thought of. If the mysterious silhouette doesn't turn out to be a returning character, I predict that it'll be a character based off of the urban legend of the  Aka Manto  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aka_Manto), because of how the Aka Manto is one of the few (If not only) figures in a Japanese urban legend to wear a/be related to a cape, like the silhouette.

Good point there! But i might be Hanako, since it was found on the game's rooster files the name Hanako so. But i think the final boss will either be inspired by the Aka Manto or Kuchisake-onna which are all 3 very popular Urban Legends of Japan.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on January 21, 2015, 12:02:21 AM
I think they'll return, but it'll be a situation similar to how Soku was to SWR;  You need the original game to have the full roster, otherwise the game will only have a pathetically small roster.  And the old characters won't have a storyline for themselves, nor will they be featured much.
Only works if ULiL was an expansion to HM, which it's not. This is treated more like how the entire roster from IaMP (minus Meiling because of special reasons) was brought to SWR anyways, as SWR was basically a sequel to IaMP in this sense. The HM characters will fit somehow, in a similar fashion as how IaMP characters managed to fit.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 21, 2015, 03:21:31 AM
Thinking about it now, I'm a bit skeptical about how the rest of the HM cast would return, whilst it would be easy to bring them back since their sprites and moves are done and whatnot, wouldn't it be hard to relate them to urban legends with their last words and their occult phenomeon? I mean, I could see it happening with Koishi and Mamizou definitely, but the other characters it doesn't seem like it'd fit that well. Unless tasofro either thinks up appropriate urban legends to tie around each character or just instead gives them the same Last Words as in the previous game.

They'd want to reuse their sprite if possible, like IaMP to SWR. It's not like Remi/etc had any real point in SWR story.

Another thing to dread about this game;  Anyone else notice the backgrounds?

They're flat.  Completely and totally flat.  No animation or perspective tricks.  It's just a single, unchanging flat image.  I hope they're either placeholders or there's a very good reason for it in game, but my dread for this game goes up even higher.

Are you sure your option is right :3 ? I have 3D animated background, though without characters dancing (as in HM spectators)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 21, 2015, 08:01:01 PM
They'd want to reuse their sprite if possible, like IaMP to SWR. It's not like Remi/etc had any real point in SWR story.

Are you sure your option is right :3 ? I have 3D animated background, though without characters dancing (as in HM spectators)

Story-wise I could see them being fitted in in some way, it wouldn't exactly be hard. The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.

Good point there! But i might be Hanako, since it was found on the game's rooster files the name Hanako so. But i think the final boss will either be inspired by the Aka Manto or Kuchisake-onna which are all 3 very popular Urban Legends of Japan.
On that subject, I thought of how a few urban legends might relate to some characters in the series who'd fit in with the game. Like if Sekibanki was part of the roster, her urban legend link would be of the Teke-Teke, well, a variation of it. And a character like Nue's urban legend link would be of the nure-onna because of the snake coiled around her arm. For characters like Mokou I'd imagine the urban legend link to be that of the Thunderbird one, not specifically native to japan though.

Please use the edit button if your post is the last one. There is no reason for double posting  :ohdear: -Hele
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 22, 2015, 05:44:09 PM
Story-wise I could see them being fitted in in some way, it wouldn't exactly be hard. The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.
Fair point,but if they are going to have their mechanism revised, get "occults" spells and get a brand new illustrtion for their LW, then it would be a waste not to give them a decent role in the story. Also, the characters themselves should not directly remind of some famous urban legend but exploit it (ie: Marisa and the seven wonders from school, which does not relate in any way to Marisa's magic powers). It would be great if HM's cast will be available for the vs mode but play no serious role in the story, and it would be even more great if the final roster features more characters than the ones who got data mined.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 23, 2015, 08:56:15 AM
It was pointed out to me, in the 2009 Nae Radio (http://nico2c.com/acq/viewthread.php?tid=5140) stream - the one where they talked about Soku, ZUN said both Hong Meiling and the Giant Catfish were originally planned for SWR, but they didn't have the time to implement.

That explains why the central elements of the Meiling storyline - catfish, earthquake, and a focus on SDM - would fit better with SWR.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on January 23, 2015, 03:59:20 PM
It was pointed out to me, in the 2009 Nae Radio (http://nico2c.com/acq/viewthread.php?tid=5140) stream - the one where they talked about Soku, ZUN said both Hong Meiling and the Giant Catfish were originally planned for SWR, but they didn't have the time to implement.

That explains why the central elements of the Meiling storyline - catfish, earthquake, and a focus on SDM - would fit better with SWR.

Oh yea, I forgot about that.  Taking that in to account, once could say they at least PLANNED for EVERY character from IaMP, even Meiling, to be in SWR.

It does seem to increase the likelihood that they're going to at least try to have every character from HM return for ULiU, but of course, like Meiling, they might run out of time/resources or whatever, too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 23, 2015, 05:19:33 PM
Oh yea, I forgot about that.  Taking that in to account, once could say they at least PLANNED for EVERY character from IaMP, even Meiling, to be in SWR.

It does seem to increase the likelihood that they're going to at least try to have every character from HM return for ULiU, but of course, like Meiling, they might run out of time/resources or whatever, too.
They will also need to think of a way to accomodate HM character into ULiL, especially the ones who heavily relied on their gimmicks (since there is none in ULiL) like Futo and Byakuren. I also want to see how the dash button is gonna work for Koishi and Byakuren.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on January 23, 2015, 07:31:34 PM

Story-wise I could see them being fitted in in some way, it wouldn't exactly be hard. The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.
On that subject, I thought of how a few urban legends might relate to some characters in the series who'd fit in with the game. Like if Sekibanki was part of the roster, her urban legend link would be of the Teke-Teke, well, a variation of it. And a character like Nue's urban legend link would be of the nure-onna because of the snake coiled around her arm. For characters like Mokou I'd imagine the urban legend link to be that of the Thunderbird one, not specifically native to japan though.

Please use the edit button if your post is the last one. There is no reason for double posting  :ohdear: -Hele

Well maybe the religionists want to put a stop to Urban Legends? I don't see Byakuren and Miko and Ichirin and Futo utilizing Urban Legends... now Koishi and Nitori as well as Mamizou and Kokoro... i
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 24, 2015, 06:30:50 AM
Quote
The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.

I don't think the characters need to be related to urban legends, they just need to learn how to use it for their own means. There shouldn't be any issues doing that for any of the characters.

Quote
They will also need to think of a way to accomodate HM character into ULiL, especially the ones who heavily relied on their gimmicks (since there is none in ULiL) like Futo and Byakuren. I also want to see how the dash button is gonna work for Koishi and Byakuren.

Isn't Kokoro the only character who's special that would need redoing? Since she can change faiths. The other characters don't do this. I can't imagine their gimmick needing too much of a change.
The other character from previous games with that equivalent is Tenshi, but weather system remained in Hisoutensoku, so no precedence on what happens if the stage gimmick does not match up with the character's special.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 24, 2015, 06:48:33 AM


Isn't Kokoro the only character who's special that would need redoing? Since she can change faiths.
Futo has a plate meter that her power is dependent on, Byakuren can only use spell cards a certain number of times before having to "charge" them, Mamizou will have to wait for her "leaf meter" to recover if some of her attacks get interrupted, etc.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 24, 2015, 04:20:35 PM
Also I wonder if the reason ZUN switched artists for ULiL was because there's already fan-made Alphes-style portraits of pretty much every character?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on January 24, 2015, 04:28:35 PM
Eh? What a weird assumption.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Colticide on January 24, 2015, 04:45:03 PM
Also I wonder if the reason ZUN switched artists for ULiL was because there's already fan-made Alphes-style portraits of pretty much every character?

Very doubtful, those picture were being made since IaMP, most likely the reason is to give it a fresh face really.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 24, 2015, 05:00:22 PM
Fair enough, either way it's going to be great to see Moe Harukawa do the artwork for the game, hopefully his portrait of Futo won't make her look 7 years old like in HM.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 24, 2015, 05:07:27 PM
Fair enough, either way it's going to be great to see Moe Harukawa do the artwork for the game, hopefully his portrait of Futo won't make her look 7 years old like in HM.
I'd also love to see manga-ish scenes for parts of the story mode. Especially for the ending. (btw, Moe Harukawa is a "She")
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on January 24, 2015, 05:42:51 PM
I'd also love to see manga-ish scenes for parts of the story mode. Especially for the ending. (btw, Moe Harukawa is a "She")
Those zoom-shots when the character got introduced were a nice touch.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 24, 2015, 06:10:58 PM
I'd also love to see manga-ish scenes for parts of the story mode. Especially for the ending. (btw, Moe Harukawa is a "She")
Manga-ish scenes for the story mode would be great, especially for the reveals of the main antagonist/antagonists or important characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on January 24, 2015, 06:52:01 PM

Story-wise I could see them being fitted in in some way, it wouldn't exactly be hard. The only problem I see with them returning is that they'd have to relate to some kind of occult phenomenon, which would be somewhat hard for characters who wouldn't relate to urban legends in any way.


Kasen does not use Urban Legends, she uses her normal powers, probably not every character will use them and those who use well, japan is very rich in myths, it could be anything. For example Reimu's Legend is that she uses boundaries to summon stuff.

Also I wonder if the reason ZUN switched artists for ULiL was because there's already fan-made Alphes-style portraits of pretty much every character?

I don't think that's the case but it's interesting to ask why ZUN changed the artwork? Maybe we will see some relation to the manga? Kasen's identity? Mamizou's intentions? Even the manga-ish close ups reference directly the manga. Moe's artwork and Kasen in? It's surprising to see elements of the two current mangas into a game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 24, 2015, 07:43:17 PM
Kasen does not use Urban Legends, she uses her normal powers, probably not every character will use them and those who use well, japan is very rich in myths, it could be anything. For example Reimu's Legend is that she uses boundaries to summon stuff.

Uh... Kasen uses the monkey's paw. All three characters only use the legends in their Last Word. Their normal movesets are all their normal powers. Perhaps there's been some confusion. For the same reason, it'd be incredibly easy to make up an urban legend for any arbitrary character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 24, 2015, 08:21:32 PM
Uh... Kasen uses the monkey's paw. All three characters only use the legends in their Last Word. Their normal movesets are all their normal powers. Perhaps there's been some confusion. For the same reason, it'd be incredibly easy to make up an urban legend for any arbitrary character.
I think an urban legend would have to relate to a character in some way to fit, it wouldn't make sense to give a character a random urban legend, and even then the urban legends in the demo aren't "Made up". Marisa's Last Word links to the Hanako-san in the toilet urban legend, Kasen's links to the Monkey's Paw and Reimu's links to the "Woman in the gap" urban legend. Whilst I can't argue much for Marisa's last word, Kasen's last word would fit her due to her link with animals, and Reimu's last word ~might~ fit her due to her partnership with Yukari in the previous games. Not saying it's fact, just my view on it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 24, 2015, 09:35:02 PM
I would link the monkey's paw to Kasen via her missing arm, but yeah, I have roughly the same feelings. They'll be connected when they can, but if not they'll just throw in something like Marisa's. They have to be in character, but that's a broad limitation rather than a narrow one.

I see it as pretty close to Mamizou turning people into animals in HM. It's not random, but it's more of a free association game than anything strict.

Edit: Kasen's title for the game says she grants wishes, which forms the rumor link, but I don't think that had anything to do with her before this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TheTeff007 on January 24, 2015, 09:55:13 PM
Doesn?t it says The Hermit that Listents to Wishes?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 25, 2015, 08:05:58 AM
Kasen's connection to the monkey's paw is her missing arm. It is important that she has an unfulfilled desire: to take back her arm, which makes her vulnerable to the temptation of anything that can fulfill wishes.

According to spoilers (I didn't mention this one), since the appearance of urban legends, Marisa has taken an interest in the rich legends surrounding schools.

Fair enough, either way it's going to be great to see Moe Harukawa do the artwork for the game, hopefully his portrait of Futo won't make her look 7 years old like in HM.
There might be a reason to that. It is possible that Futo is literally a bratty teenager. That would explain her stupidity, cowardice and rashness very well.

Time for already simplified obscure knowledge: (EDIT: also not entirely accurate)
The Mononobe clan is a priest clan. Ise Shrine, the shrine most important to the Japanese throne, is divided into the Inner Shrine for Amaterasu, and the Outer Shrine for the agriculture goddess Toyouke. In the Outer Shrine, there are girl priestesses, around 10 years old, called 物忌 monoimi "Abstinence", and there is one 大物忌 ohmonoimi "Great Abstinence", who is a Mononobe girl, responsible for offering food to the gods. The age of an ohmonoimi generally ranges from 9 to 14 years, as she will be replaced by the time of her first menstruation. Afterwards, she will remain celibate for her whole life.

What may trip you up is that Ohmonoimi is also another name for Toyouke. This definition of the word is much more widespread on the internet by comparison. I have no idea if the priestess is supposed to be a proxy of Toyouke.

Futo's last spell card and Overdrive card in TD are called 聖童女「大物忌正餐」 and 聖童女「太陽神の贄」. Their accurate translations might be Sacred Virgin "Ohmonoimi's Dinner" and Sacred Virgin "Offering to Sun God". 聖童女 "sacred little girl" or "sacred virgin" is a phrase coined by a folklorist to describe the ohmonoimi priestess. The "dinner" or "offering" itself refers to the Outer Shrine's daily ceremony of offering food to the gods, once in the morning, once in the evening.

In addition, Futo's dress is based on the ohmonoimi garb. People have pointed out it seems to be her not entirely successful result of adapting to fashions of the modern world.

I can't find the place where I saw a photo of a real life Ohmonoimi girl, but Futo's NicoNico Encyclopedia entry (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E7%89%A9%E9%83%A8%E5%B8%83%E9%83%BD) has a surprisingly good summary of related info. And here's the official Ise Shrine site on the dinner of gods (http://www.isejingu.or.jp/english/maturi/maturi3.htm).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 25, 2015, 09:50:45 AM
Kasen's connection to the monkey's paw is her missing arm. It is important that she has an unfulfilled desire: to take back her arm, which makes her vulnerable to the temptation of anything that can fulfill wishes.
From what you've said, I presume now that means the Urban Legends will have to link to the characters in some way? So they're not entirely random. I could see urban legends fitting some touhou characters quite easily, like Sekibanki having a connection to the Teke-Teke legend, or Nue having a connection to the Nure-onna.

According to spoilers (I didn't mention this one), since the appearance of urban legends, Marisa has taken an interest in the rich legends surrounding schools.
There might be a reason to that. It is possible that Futo is literally a bratty teenager. That would explain her stupidity, cowardice and rashness very well.

Time for already simplified obscure knowledge:
The Mononobe clan is a priest clan. Ise Shrine, the shrine most important to the Japanese throne, is divided into the Inner Shrine for Amaterasu, and the Outer Shrine for the agriculture goddess Toyouke. In the Outer Shrine, there are girl priestesses, around 10 years old, called 物忌 monoimi "Abstinence", and there is one 大物忌 ohmonoimi "Great Abstinence", who is a Mononobe girl, responsible for offering food to the gods. The age of an ohmonoimi generally ranges from 9 to 14 years, as she will be replaced by the time of her first menstruation. Afterwards, she will remain celibate for her whole life.

What may trip you up is that Ohmonoimi is also another name for Toyouke. This definition of the word is much more widespread on the internet by comparison. I have no idea if the priestess is supposed to be a proxy of Toyouke.

Futo's last spell card and Overdrive card in TD are called 聖童女「大物忌正餐」 and 聖童女「太陽神の贄」. Their accurate translations might be Sacred Virgin "Ohmonoimi's Dinner" and Sacred Virgin "Offering to Sun God". 聖童女 "sacred little girl" or "sacred virgin" is a phrase coined by a folklorist to describe the ohmonoimi priestess. The "dinner" or "offering" itself refers to the Outer Shrine's daily ceremony of offering food to the gods, once in the morning, once in the evening.

In addition, Futo's dress is based on the ohmonoimi garb. People have pointed out it seems to be her not entirely successful result of adapting to fashions of the modern world.

I can't find the place where I saw a photo of a real life Ohmonoimi girl, but Futo's NicoNico Encyclopedia entry (http://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E7%89%A9%E9%83%A8%E5%B8%83%E9%83%BD) has a surprisingly good summary of related info. And here's the official Ise Shrine site on the dinner of gods (http://www.isejingu.or.jp/english/maturi/maturi3.htm).
Color me surprised, I had no idea Futo was intentionally supposed to look young, that does indeed explain a lot. What a fascinating history check as well, looks like I have no reason to complain about how she looked now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 25, 2015, 10:47:52 AM
Quote
From what you've said, I presume now that means the Urban Legends will have to link to the characters in some way? So they're not entirely random. I could see urban legends fitting some touhou characters quite easily, like Sekibanki having a connection to the Teke-Teke legend, or Nue having a connection to the Nure-onna.

Sure, they will have a link, but that link can be made up. They can fit any Touhou characters, not just some. That specific Touhou character just needs to take interest in whatever legend is being used.
As you noticed, Marisa took an interest in school legends. She, herself, has no links to any school, nor was she known to have gone to school.
You can use the same type of pattern for any legend that another Touhou character may take interest in. If it seemingly fits them, then, yeah, that's great, but that part isn't a big deal.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 25, 2015, 06:00:51 PM
Sure, they will have a link, but that link can be made up. They can fit any Touhou characters, not just some. That specific Touhou character just needs to take interest in whatever legend is being used.
As you noticed, Marisa took an interest in school legends. She, herself, has no links to any school, nor was she known to have gone to school.
You can use the same type of pattern for any legend that another Touhou character may take interest in. If it seemingly fits them, then, yeah, that's great, but that part isn't a big deal.
I suppose so but it'd seem a bit odd and out of character for a character like Byakuren to take advantage of an urban legend, the same could be said for someone like Miko too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on January 25, 2015, 06:06:35 PM
I think Miko would take advantage of literally anything. That's just how I see her. I think it's easy enough to get Byakuren's attention too. Remember that "take advantage of" doesn't necessarily mean they have ulterior motives. Byakuren is currently "taking advantage of" all the youkai in her temple since her magic is contingent on youkai. Doesn't mean she doesn't honestly want to help them too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on January 26, 2015, 12:07:55 AM
Quote
I suppose so but it'd seem a bit odd and out of character for a character like Byakuren to take advantage of an urban legend, the same could be said for someone like Miko too.

Like what Clarste said, it isn't odd or out of character for either of them to take advantage of the Urban Legends. If you think it is out of character or odd, then, you are thinking too much into it, trying to make connections where one doesn't exist.
I believe both Byakuren and Miko will likely be in Urban Legend in Limbo. But how they are going to use the Urban Legends will remain to be seen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on January 26, 2015, 02:43:18 PM
Remember the leaks with Mokou, Shinmyoumaru and Hanako?

Today it crossed my mind that maybe Mokou appeared w/Keine in ISC as a little foreshadowing. She could have been included to give company to Kagerou in the Bamboo Forest day, but if that were the case, then why Keine? She lives in the Human village and ZUN could simply have given Kagerou and Mokou more cards to fill the level.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 27, 2015, 06:46:19 AM
Today it crossed my mind that maybe Mokou appeared w/Keine in ISC as a little foreshadowing.
ISC?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on January 27, 2015, 08:15:50 AM
ISC?

Thanks in advance!

Impossible Spell Card

And yeah, I had that notion, too. The two of them felt slightly random to be brought back in ISC, especially Keine, but if it was to ease Mokous way into this new game, it would make sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 31, 2015, 02:42:24 PM
I wonder anyway, when do you guys think Tasofro will release more info for the game? I wasn't here for when HM was getting hyped up for so I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 31, 2015, 03:02:07 PM
Going by how they released these fighting games in the past:

They will put up a free demo on their website in February or March, and announce the full version for Reitaisai 12 (May 10). A few days before Reitaisai, they will update the site with character profiles, and reveal a ZUN-designed jacket cover, with a silhouette that fuels speculation (perhaps not in this case.) The doujin stores will put up the game's product pages, which sometimes also contain new info.

Then the day before Reitaisai, they will release a Day One patch. Someone will dissect the patch and discover the game's secrets before Reitaisai even begins :-) .
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on January 31, 2015, 03:10:29 PM
Going by how they released these fighting games in the past:

They will put up a free demo on their website in February or March, and announce the full version for Reitaisai 12 (May 10). A few days before Reitaisai, they will update the site with character profiles, and reveal the game's ZUN-designed jacket cover, with a silhouette that fuels speculation (perhaps not in this case.) The doujin stores will put up the game's product pages, which sometimes also contains new info.

Then the day before Reitaisai, they will release a Day One patch. Someone will dissect the patch and discover some secret before Reitaisai even begins :-) .
Ah, so it looks like we'll be getting new info around May then? ;; Looks like now all we can do is wait!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on January 31, 2015, 04:04:14 PM
They will put up a free demo on their website in February or March

Why do you think it's February or March? I think it used to be around 1 month before the game, so April ?
Just wondering because I'm still in very high hype and it'd be amazing if I can have something in February/March  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on January 31, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
April then it is. My job in the recent years hasn't been kind to my memory.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on January 31, 2015, 04:09:07 PM
Ah, so it looks like we'll be getting new info around May then? ;; Looks like now all we can do is wait!
Long answer short: no new info until a week before release.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on January 31, 2015, 04:50:31 PM
Going by how they released these fighting games in the past:

They will put up a free demo on their website in February or March, and announce the full version for Reitaisai 12 (May 10). A few days before Reitaisai, they will update the site with character profiles, and reveal a ZUN-designed jacket cover, with a silhouette that fuels speculation (perhaps not in this case.) The doujin stores will put up the game's product pages, which sometimes also contain new info.

Then the day before Reitaisai, they will release a Day One patch. Someone will dissect the patch and discover the game's secrets before Reitaisai even begins :-) .
The period of misinformation and fake stuffs will also start around that period, haha. I remember seeing a Yamame done in Alphes's style and an Okuu pixel art around the time where misinformation was all around. Is this some sort of tradition for the fanbase ? *Prepares lots of grain of salt*

If they are going to do things like in HM's case, then Tasofro might also update their site with information and illustration about the new playable characters... it was like that 2 weeks before HM was released if I remember correctly... I wonder what they are going to do for ULiL's case.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on February 01, 2015, 09:40:03 AM
Is this some sort of tradition for the fanbase ?
More like a tradition for fighting games as a whole.  You should totally see how things were during SSB4's release...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Savory on February 01, 2015, 06:31:54 PM
Not to mention tons of accusations of the developers being trolls because of people jumping to conclusions or setting up extremely high expectations from nowhere.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on February 02, 2015, 03:53:20 AM
All I know is that if they put Kagerou in, I'd overflow with bliss.

Kagerou is by far my favorite from DDC, the second being Wakasagihime. All other characters from the game are pretty "meh" for me, but I do like Sekibanki some as well.

Kagerou may have better chances than Wakasagihime because I think a floating mermaid in a fighting game would be a bit clumsy.

What I really wanted was both of 'em there, but that's asking a little much. :V There are other characters who are more deserving of a spot in the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 02, 2015, 07:31:00 PM
Personal wishlist for the game's roster would be a complete roster of new characters which probably wont happen but oh well: Sekibanki, Nue, Seija, Shinmyoumaru, Mokou, Aya/Sanae and Yumemi/Mima. Whilst I know how abyssmal the chances of the latter ones getting in, it'd be my favorite 2hu ever if they brought either one of those back ;;
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on February 02, 2015, 08:22:11 PM
Seija has pretty high chances of getting in. She got her own game recently, and all danmaku playable characters got into some fighter already, except for Hatate. I can totally see Seija facing the opponent backwards on her idle animation and even going upside down sometimes.

Mokou is also a pretty popular character, and she'd fit very well on a fighting game. Not to mention Tasofro considered making her playable back then, so I'd say she has high chances as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 02, 2015, 09:03:02 PM
Seija has pretty high chances of getting in. She got her own game recently, and all danmaku playable characters got into some fighter already, except for Hatate. I can totally see Seija facing the opponent backwards on her idle animation and even going upside down sometimes.

Mokou is also a pretty popular character, and she'd fit very well on a fighting game. Not to mention Tasofro considered making her playable back then, so I'd say she has high chances as well.
From the leaks I think there's a pretty high chance of Mokou being confirmed, though I wouldn't bet on it. If Seija was in it I'd look forward to seeing her fighting style, and how she'd interract with the main villain of the game too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on February 02, 2015, 09:38:37 PM
From the leaks I think there's a pretty high chance of Mokou being confirmed, though I wouldn't bet on it. If Seija was in it I'd look forward to seeing her fighting style, and how she'd interract with the main villain of the game too.

I would love having Seija in the game as well, her personality has comedic potential and overall is interesting. In Unthinkable Nature Law, Mokou and Kaguya were planned to appear in the game, however were scrapped due to time constraints. If Mokou makes it, then i would say there is a chance for the Eternal Princess of the Moon to make an appearence as well which first of all i am hyped for Mokou because she will be fun and interesting to play as, as well as Kaguya, and it's a great oportunity to expand their personality... and if they appear... finally and offical Touhou Game where Kaguya and Mokou duke it out!!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 03, 2015, 06:58:10 PM
I would love having Seija in the game as well, her personality has comedic potential and overall is interesting. In Unthinkable Nature Law, Mokou and Kaguya were planned to appear in the game, however were scrapped due to time constraints. If Mokou makes it, then i would say there is a chance for the Eternal Princess of the Moon to make an appearence as well which first of all i am hyped for Mokou because she will be fun and interesting to play as, as well as Kaguya, and it's a great oportunity to expand their personality... and if they appear... finally and offical Touhou Game where Kaguya and Mokou duke it out!!!
Mokou vs Kaguya in a fighting game, that would be absolutely glorius. Also, on another note, I hope that the pre-battle themes are going to be as good as they were in SWR. From the 2nd battle's pre-battle theme, I'll presume they will be. I wonder if there'll be stage themes as well as character themes, or if the themes in the demo are actually the themes of Marisa and Kasen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on February 03, 2015, 07:33:20 PM
Mokou vs Kaguya in a fighting game, that would be absolutely glorius. Also, on another note, I hope that the pre-battle themes are going to be as good as they were in SWR. From the 2nd battle's pre-battle theme, I'll presume they will be. I wonder if there'll be stage themes as well as character themes, or if the themes in the demo are actually the themes of Marisa and Kasen.

Probably in SWR some characters battles in story mode didn't have the enemy's theme playing an example would be Reimu vs Komachi and i just have a feeling those aren't Marisa's and Kasen's themes i think they will do it like SWR.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 05, 2015, 06:54:31 AM
I wish Kaguya would get in. Maybe at least as an expansion for next year  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 06, 2015, 05:21:34 PM
Hmh, I still want to know what's up with the piano in the first screenshot we got of the game, that wasn't featured in the demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on February 06, 2015, 06:32:12 PM
Hmh, I still want to know what's up with the piano in the first screenshot we got of the game, that wasn't featured in the demo.
It's one of Marisa's special attacks.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dream Wanderer on February 08, 2015, 04:54:55 PM
So I was thinking about it, and it occurred to me that the Mary-san/three-legged Licca-chan rumors would be a perfect fit for Alice or Medicine if either of them were added as playable characters.

Also, I think Kasen might have a field day in this game considering how many of the classic Japanese urban legend monsters are onryō for her to crush. (Kuchisake-onna, Teke Teke, Kashima Reiko, Hikiko-san, etc.)

Oh and if the implementation of Marisa's school mysteries change before the final release, I hope they get to add references about some of the other ones to it if they can. (Things like the heartless anatomical model, the mirror that reflects terrifying things, and the 13th stair, among others.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on February 08, 2015, 06:44:01 PM
So I was thinking about it, and it occurred to me that the Mary-san/three-legged Licca-chan rumors would be a perfect fit for Alice or Medicine if either of them were added as playable characters.

Also, I think Kasen might have a field day in this game considering how many of the classic Japanese urban legend monsters are onryō for her to crush. (Kuchisake-onna, Teke Teke, Kashima Reiko, Hikiko-san, etc.)

Oh and if the implementation of Marisa's school mysteries change before the final release, I hope they get to add references about some of the other ones to it if they can. (Things like the heartless anatomical model, the mirror that reflects terrifying things, and the 13th stair, among others.)
Well, why not? Lots of thing can be added, we only received the demo. But as far as moveset goes, I don't think there'll be too much, I mean, SOME moves were brought directly from HM but not ALL of them instead. I think you shouldn't get your hopes too high on this one.

I like to think that ULiL is going to, compared to HM, feature more characters and a solid gameplay but give a restricted moveset instead... and the characters are likely to have "occult" spells that will have something to do with the rumours surrounding them (expecting the rumours not to be totaly related to the characters. Reimu using rumors that fits Yukari is rather dubious too...)

Speculations, speculations. Anyway, it'll be cool if there are more moves available than in the demo for the full version (and less bugs, for that matter).
(btw greetings, Mr (relatively) new member! Hope the ongoing dramas won't spoil your fun. Enjoy your stay!  :D)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dream Wanderer on February 08, 2015, 10:27:43 PM
Thanks for the welcome! ^_^

On the manner of occult spell cards, I?ve been considering about how they?re going to implement that system into the complete game when it goes live. Currently in the demo, they're used as spell cards by your opponents in story mode, similar to past fighting games. On the player side, traditional spell cards are chosen before the match similar to IaMP while a special occult ability is also available to each character that gets stronger the more occult balls are gathered. Because it?s fun to speculate and just cause I like thinking of cool ideas for abilities whether they?re implemented or not, I?ve been thinking how that system could expand in a more finished version of the title.

Since the details of urban legends can vary depending on the version of the story being told, and because every urban legend has different aspects to it, what if it was possible to select from a few different occult abilities that ownership of legends could convey to the characters? Here are a few examples of what I had in mind:

1. Reimu Hakurei
Legend: The Gap Woman
Description: The woman (or sometimes girl) from the gap is a spirit and urban legend derived from traditional Edo era folklore. She is said to live in the small gaps and cracks between furniture, doors, and drawers. If one day you meet her gaze she will ask you to play hide and seek. The second time you see her eyes in a gap you will be taken to another dimension. (or to Hell)

Reimu?s current ability that she gains from the legend is the ability to slice open gaps with her gohei and launch sotoba markers at her enemies similar to Yukari. Likewise, her last word drags them into the gap with her and binds them while she attacks them. That hide-and-seek element of the story though could be possibly made into an alternate regular ability that Reimu could use. The idea of peering eyes looking through gaps makes me think of another traditional ability of Yukari?s, her Laplace eyes that she summons to fire on her foes when she attacks them. What if Reimu could use an ability similar to this by making use of this aspect of the legend of the gap woman?

Other possible abilities could involve summoning ghastly arms out of the gaps to grab or attack an opponent, or some shadowy, terrifying representation of Yomi, Naraka, or Diyu to emerge.

2. Marisa Kirisame
Legend: The 7 Mysteries of the School
Description: It seems like every school in Japan is secretly the host to a gathering of seven mysterious and supernatural phenomena that pervade its halls and classrooms. A cultural occurrence that started as a way of letting the chill of fear chase away the heat of summer, the seven mysteries vary depending on the school that keeps them, often arising from weird events in the building?s history or just unusual rumors that spread among the students. As for why it was Marisa took interest in this legend, I think that it could be a reference to the idea of learning and its connection to magic. (Despite how much she downplays it, Marisa?s a magician that really does spend a lot of time reading and studying to keep up with Reimu?s natural talent and discover new spell cards to make, so I can imagine her liking a ghost story connected to institutions of knowledge. That and they're really cool and well-known, which I could also see as something that would fit Marisa?s tastes.)

Now that I?ve explained the concept with Reimu, an easy alternate ability for Marisa would be having different sets of the more well-known school mysteries in her arsenal that she could summon, or more powerful singular ones. Some of them could even have special effects, like a frightening mirror that could reflect attacks or even create an evil twin of her opponent that would attack them for a time, or a 13th stair step that could temporarily stop her challenger in place and interrupt them if they moved a certain distance. She could pelt her enemy with pencils and erasers, or use haunted art supplies to draw something scary to assist her. There?s a whole lot of possibility with her?

3. Kasen Ibaraki
Legend: The Monkey?s Paw
Description: This legend, which is often associated with the short story of the same name by English author W. W. Jacobs, is the tale of a severed monkey?s paw that grants its owner three wishes. However, to teach them not to interfere with fate, any wish they make with it will have some horrible drawback to it. The paw will twist the wish in some way into a form that will only cause its finder pain and sorrow. The wish-giving aspect of the paw is where Kasen?s title in the game comes from. Another thing I find interesting is that this is an urban legend that originated in the west, meaning that it?s quite possible that urban legends from around the world might make an appearance in ULiL (which could also be hinted at by the mystery spots being occult locations from around the planet.)

As for alternate abilities for Kasen, I can definitely see this wish-granting power implementable in some way. Perhaps she could make a wish to the monkey?s paw to improve a certain skill of hers or grant her an impressive benefit or buff of some kind in battle, but at the cost of an ability being made temporarily unusable or having to endure a period of reduced attack power/movement speed/guarding efficiency/etc. to make up for it. The paw could also be used for different melee attacks like slapping or slashing the enemy from a distance, or inflict some kind of harmful curse on the opponent. (This curse could possibly also be a detriment to Kasen later, as the opponent could get something that benefits them as well because of the paw?s twisting of the curse. A skillful player would have to be careful when choosing the right time to make a wish.)

Like I said these are all just some thoughts I had. I love urban legends and folklore in general, and it?s always enjoyable to see how they could be used in a gaming setting. Whatever ZUN, Moe, and the great minds at Twilight Frontier think up for it, I?m 100% positive that Urban Legend in Limbo will be a wonderful game and a great entry into the saga of the Touhou Project.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 09, 2015, 06:04:35 PM
Thanks for the welcome! ^_^

On the manner of occult spell cards, I?ve been considering about how they?re going to implement that system into the complete game when it goes live. Currently in the demo, they're used as spell cards by your opponents in story mode, similar to past fighting games. On the player side, traditional spell cards are chosen before the match similar to IaMP while a special occult ability is also available to each character that gets stronger the more occult balls are gathered. Because it?s fun to speculate and just cause I like thinking of cool ideas for abilities whether they?re implemented or not, I?ve been thinking how that system could expand in a more finished version of the title.

Since the details of urban legends can vary depending on the version of the story being told, and because every urban legend has different aspects to it, what if it was possible to select from a few different occult abilities that ownership of legends could convey to the characters? Here are a few examples of what I had in mind:

1. Reimu Hakurei
Legend: The Gap Woman
Description: The woman (or sometimes girl) from the gap is a spirit and urban legend derived from traditional Edo era folklore. She is said to live in the small gaps and cracks between furniture, doors, and drawers. If one day you meet her gaze she will ask you to play hide and seek. The second time you see her eyes in a gap you will be taken to another dimension. (or to Hell)

Reimu?s current ability that she gains from the legend is the ability to slice open gaps with her gohei and launch sotoba markers at her enemies similar to Yukari. Likewise, her last word drags them into the gap with her and binds them while she attacks them. That hide-and-seek element of the story though could be possibly made into an alternate regular ability that Reimu could use. The idea of peering eyes looking through gaps makes me think of another traditional ability of Yukari?s, her Laplace eyes that she summons to fire on her foes when she attacks them. What if Reimu could use an ability similar to this by making use of this aspect of the legend of the gap woman?

Other possible abilities could involve summoning ghastly arms out of the gaps to grab or attack an opponent, or some shadowy, terrifying representation of Yomi or Naraka to emerge.

2. Marisa Kirisame
Legend: The 7 Mysteries of the School
Description: It seems like every school in Japan is secretly the host to a gathering of seven mysterious and supernatural phenomena that pervade its halls and classrooms. A cultural occurrence that started as a way of letting the chill of fear chase away the heat of summer, the seven mysteries vary depending on the school that keeps them, often arising from weird events in the building?s history or just unusual rumors that spread among the students. As for why it was Marisa took interest in this legend, I think that it could be a reference to the idea of learning and its connection to magic. (Despite how much she downplays it, Marisa?s a magician that really does spend a lot of time reading and studying to keep up with Reimu?s natural talent and discover new spell cards to make, so I can imagine her liking a ghost story connected to institutions of knowledge. That and they're really cool and well-known, which I could also see as something that would fit Marisa?s tastes.)

Now that I?ve explained the concept with Reimu, an easy alternate ability for Marisa would be having different sets of the more well-known school mysteries in her arsenal that she could summon, or more powerful singular ones. Some of them could even have special effects, like a frightening mirror that could reflect attacks or even create an evil twin of her opponent that would attack them for a time, or a 13th stair step that could temporarily stop her challenger in place and interrupt them if they moved a certain distance. She could pelt her enemy with pencils and erasers, or use haunted art supplies to draw something scary to assist her. There?s a whole lot of possibility with her?

3. Kasen Iberaki
Legend: The Monkey?s Paw
Description: This legend, which is often associated with the short story of the same name by English author W. W. Jacobs, is the tale of a severed monkey?s paw that grants its owner three wishes. However, to teach them not to interfere with fate, any wish they make with it will have some horrible drawback to it. The paw will twist the wish in some way into a form that will only cause its finder pain and sorrow. The wish-giving aspect of the paw is where Kasen?s title in the game comes from. Another thing I find interesting is that this is an urban legend that originated in the west, meaning that it?s quite possible that urban legends from around the world might make an appearance in ULiL (which could also be hinted at by the mystery spots being occult locations from around the planet.)

As for alternate abilities for Kasen, I can definitely see this wish-granting power implementable in some way. Perhaps she could make a wish to the monkey?s paw to improve a certain skill of hers or grant her an impressive benefit or buff of some kind in battle, but at the cost of an ability being made temporarily unusable or having to endure a period of reduced attack power/movement speed/guarding efficiency/etc. to make up for it. The paw could also be used for different melee attacks like slapping or slashing the enemy from a distance, or inflict some kind of harmful curse on the opponent. (This curse could possibly also be a detriment to Kasen later, as the opponent could get something that benefits them as well because of the paw?s twisting of the curse. A skillful player would have to be careful when choosing the right time to make a wish.)

Like I said these are all just some thoughts I had. I love urban legends and folklore in general, and it?s always enjoyable to see how they could be used in a gaming setting. Whatever ZUN, Moe, and the great minds at Twilight Frontier think up for it, I?m 100% positive that Urban Legend in Limbo will be a wonderful game and a great entry into the saga of the Touhou Project.

You. I like you. It'd be amazing if those urban legend abilities could benefit the characters in other ways gameplay-wise, similar to the specific abilities characters in HM had.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Lishy1 on February 09, 2015, 11:08:58 PM
I've been super out of the loop since Touhou 13.

How good is the gameplay style of HM? How does it compare to Hisoutensoku? (One of my favourite fighting games)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aListers on February 10, 2015, 12:54:45 AM
Man, Marisa's last word just seems fucked up (for lack of a better term) to me as a guy who's known of (and admittedly been scared of) these urban legends for a long time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on February 10, 2015, 01:27:38 AM
Man, Marisa's last word just seems fucked up (for lack of a better term) to me as a guy who's known of (and admittedly been scared of) these urban legends for a long time.

[nsfw]https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1904588[/nsfw]

Sorry. Had to post this.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on February 10, 2015, 06:52:30 AM
I've been super out of the loop since Touhou 13.

How good is the gameplay style of HM? How does it compare to Hisoutensoku? (One of my favourite fighting games)
Personally, I like it, but it's generally agreed that it's probably the WORST Touhou game ever made, so expectations are currently low for this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 10, 2015, 07:50:07 AM
I've been super out of the loop since Touhou 13.

How good is the gameplay style of HM? How does it compare to Hisoutensoku? (One of my favourite fighting games)
I enjoyed the game a lot, personally. Although the enemy AI was pretty bad for the most part, I probably like it more because of the art style and last word mechanics, although I would probably not get into it competitively like I did in soku. ULiL I'll most likely give a try comp-wise though, seeing how they're fixing some of those mechanics.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on February 10, 2015, 11:01:24 AM
Not sure how good or bad it'll be as a game, but I'm more looking forward to the music and the new character : is she going to be a big addition like Kokoro was for Touhou fanworks ? Anyway, since there seems to be pre-battles themes, stages themes, and maybe the characters's actual themes, ULiL is likely going to have a lot of nice stuff to listen to. ZUN, why didn't you make Kasen's theme for the demo...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 10, 2015, 01:50:40 PM
14.5 is a way better game than 13.5/HM IMO
14.5 is like all of the fighters combined, 7.5 + 12.3 + 13.5, however it hardly brought back anything that annoyed people during 13.5 so we can say it only took the positives of it.

I've made some videos about it in my YT channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/FearNagae), you can check it out if you're interested. ;) (I haven't uploaded any PvP replays though)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 10, 2015, 03:15:51 PM
Not sure how good or bad it'll be as a game, but I'm more looking forward to the music and the new character : is she going to be a big addition like Kokoro was for Touhou fanworks ? Anyway, since there seems to be pre-battles themes, stages themes, and maybe the characters's actual themes, ULiL is likely going to have a lot of nice stuff to listen to. ZUN, why didn't you make Kasen's theme for the demo...
Is there any confirmation yet that the themes in the demo weren't Marisa and Kasen's actual themes respectively?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on February 10, 2015, 03:21:13 PM
They're the stages' themes and neither is by ZUN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 10, 2015, 04:59:27 PM
They're the stages' themes and neither is by ZUN.
Neat, the themes did feel more fitting for stages rather than characters to me to begin with. I wonder if Marisa will recieve a new theme or have a re-arrange of one of her existing ones. Dance of the Witches arrange please ;~;
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: zferolie on February 11, 2015, 04:40:17 PM
Wow I am just hearing about this haha. I enjoyed 13.5 but it did seem to be less of a normal fighter then the others. So this one will have some mechanics of the past fighters, combined with how 13.5 work? Like with a ground and faster gameplay.

I will miss the free flying, but this should make it a better fighter perhaps? Is there any word on returning characters? Will all the past ones show up?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on February 11, 2015, 05:20:36 PM
Wow I am just hearing about this haha. I enjoyed 13.5 but it did seem to be less of a normal fighter then the others. So this one will have some mechanics of the past fighters, combined with how 13.5 work? Like with a ground and faster gameplay.

I will miss the free flying, but this should make it a better fighter perhaps? Is there any word on returning characters? Will all the past ones show up?
The whole HM cast are expected to come back

And as far as wether this game'll be good or bad goes, there are only opinions flying around, so I'll go with Fear Nagae over there and say it could be better than HM that and the fact that I'm fantastically horribad at fighting games I actually have to rely on the good players's judgment to give an opinion  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: zferolie on February 11, 2015, 05:48:40 PM
The whole HM cast are expected to come back

And as far as wether this game'll be good or bad goes, there are only opinions flying around, so I'll go with Fear Nagae over there and say it could be better than HM that and the fact that I'm fantastically horribad at fighting games I actually have to rely on the good players's judgment to give an opinion  :3

Haha, I kinda suck at traditional fighters, Smash and 3d fighters I do better at. Still, I hope its good and brings something new to the fight game genre.

And I hope Tewi is playable :p
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 11, 2015, 06:37:50 PM
I doubt (and hope) The old cast don't return, well, not FULLY at least. A roster with more room for newcomers would be perfect to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on February 12, 2015, 07:04:10 AM
And as far as wether this game'll be good or bad goes, there are only opinions flying around, so I'll go with Fear Nagae over there and say it could be better than HM
The general consensus seems to be that even though it's better than 13.5, it's still a bad game overall.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 12, 2015, 02:38:51 PM
The general consensus seems to be that even though it's better than 13.5, it's still a bad game overall.

It's a consensus made by people who haven't tried it enough to notice that it is in no way similar to 13.5.
However unfortunately, that might really be the current "general" consensus.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: anthonyshu01 on February 12, 2015, 03:07:20 PM
The general consensus seems to be that even though it's better than 13.5, it's still a bad game overall.

what makes it a bad game?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Flandre5carlet on February 12, 2015, 03:34:24 PM
Not particularly looking forward to it as far as I'm concerned; I'm not very fond of fighting games in the first place, and the Touhou ones don't really change that. Plus it's based on 13.5.
I'm rather waiting for whenever we get a 14.8 announcement, and I hope it'll be something unique kind of like 12.8 was.

Maybe my dream of a bullet-cancelling based game with Flan as the playable character-
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on February 12, 2015, 04:22:39 PM
what makes it a bad game?
Actually, it's about why some people call it bad.

From the way it LOOKS (sprites, flight, some moves), ULiL immediately got compared to HM, which received a lot of criticism, and the people who bashed on HM pretty much expect all of the not-well-received parts of HM to appear in ULiL and immediately started saying that it'll be a bad game too... For example, ULiL already receive criticism because it's also a flying fighter like HM, while in fact, it have a "ground" and it's pretty much a ground based fighter where you can jump down if I may say... It's not possible to grasp the game's mechanism from the way it looks alone so maybe the criticism come from the fact that 1/ it LOOKS like HM 2/ it's a fighting game (opinion are divided on these) 3/ Bandwagoning with the people who say it'll be a bad game 4/ Legit reasons (ie : the new "weather system").

If there is something that can get acceptable criticism in this game, then it should be its gimmick, the new weather-ish system (because RNG. And the pause. Oh god the pause) and maybe some other points that actual pros at fighting games might point out...
Else, It's usually said that it have a more solid gameplay compared to HM, and the AI is truly superior compared to the older Touhou fighting games.

Anyway, that was just my two cents  :V I don't believe Tasofro won't learn from their mistakes in HM. It's not sure wether this game'll be good or bad, but it's certain that it's only heavily criticized (because of questionnable reasons too) if anything else.

Maybe my dream of a bullet-cancelling based game with Flan as the playable character-
Sorry to break it to you, but Medicine getting in the top 10 30 in the popularity polls is more realistic than that  :V I wanna see something that's neither shooter nor fighter for 14.8 but that would be less realistic than the Watatsuki sisters getting in the top 50...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on February 12, 2015, 07:02:41 PM
I wouldn't call it bad, but I would say certain things are concerning.

1. The weather/curse orbs system.

Obviously.  What is perhaps the worst part of this is that curse orbs are so intimately tied to gameplay that it would be problematic to just hack weather away.  I'll have to wait until whenever I can experience the game with other people in order to see what sort of effect it has on the game overall, but I can say right now I hate trying to get the Smash Ball.

2. Pressure/mixup.

The game has neither throws nor high/low mixup, which makes it hard to open people up.  I didn't play enough HM to understand how that really changed the game, but I imagine that I'll have to learn a good blockstring to even play the game at its most fundamental level.  I wish I knew why Tasafro was so against throws with regards to the Touhou fighting games, EFZ had them!

3. Removal of character abilities.

This one's pretty minor, but I thought the HM ones were cool, and I don't see much value in removing them (Reimu side-swapping, Marisa 3 star buildup, etc).  I do think all 3 characters in the demo feel good and complete, so I don't think they *need* them, but they would be nice.

-----

But there's also a lot of good things so far.  The game controls much better (partly due to the addition of a dedicated dash button) and is less floaty.  I'm one of those guys that actually prefers the lack of character customization over the previous game (Third Strike-style super picking is fine by me).  Perhaps the best thing is the removal of popularity and faith, both of which I hated.

So it's definitely got potential, but I do think weather/orbs as they exist now will prevent it from ever being a really good game, but it could be fun in doses.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Omegahugger on February 12, 2015, 07:04:35 PM
I just feel the need to point this out.....

Quote
For example, ULiL already receive criticism because it's also a flying fighter like HM, while in fact, it have a "ground" and it's pretty much a ground based fighter where you can jump down if I may say...

TF did tighten the movement to make it less floaty than HM but that doesn't change the fact there's no "ground" contrary to what you're saying. You can't duck. You can't use motions (QCF, HCB....) to key in moves because of the role up and down play. The dynamics of air-to-ground or ground-to-air are different because your opponent can be below you even when you're "standing on the ground" (which... you aren't). Ground-travelling moves like some of the ones in Soku can't exist (they'd just be regular projectiles). Throws can't exist (not that they did, except maybe a few special "grab" moves). So on.

ULiL has clearly-defined corridors but there's no "standing on the ground" involved at all nor can the mechanics be compared. It's still an air-based fighter (but it is an improvement over HM.....) no matter how you cut it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on February 12, 2015, 07:05:05 PM
Sorry to break it to you, but Medicine getting in the top 10 30 in the popularity polls is more realistic than that  :V I wanna see something that's neither shooter nor fighter for 14.8 but that would be less realistic than the Watatsuki sisters getting in the top 50...

Pick your poison (no pun intended):
Quote
Which of the following is the most probable event?
a) The return of Mima
b) The, err, "return" of Rin Satsuki
c) Playable Watatsuki Sisters.
d) The death of one of the main humans (ie. Reimu, Marisa, maybe Sakuya/Youmu/Sanae if you want a bigger selection pool)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on February 12, 2015, 07:17:20 PM
While each of those events are very, very unlikely, I'm going to go with (c) simply because that one looks like the most realistic of the four.

If (b), I'm going to the nearest gas station and buying a lottery ticket.

and I'm going to win the jackpot
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on February 12, 2015, 08:58:14 PM
*Correction*
Ooops. I guess "ground" was a bad way to put it, I think I'll use "the place where you go back to" from now on  :V what do you mean, it sound shounen-ish ?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 12, 2015, 10:09:31 PM
Pick your poison (no pun intended):
A or B. A man can dream.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on February 13, 2015, 12:56:37 AM
I wish I knew why Tasafro was so against throws with regards to the Touhou fighting games, EFZ had them!
Throwing (as a pillar of the fighting system, not just a few spell cards) seems to be a bad fit for the Touhou universe. I can imagine ZUN and Tasofro deciding to forego throws during IaMP's early development.

Nonetheless, it seems possible to me to implement throws in the current ULiL system in a way that does not break the lore (they don't have to grab the opponent using their own hands), if not for their current design philosophy that's so focused on simplification.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on February 13, 2015, 02:03:59 AM
That could be.  I'm not saying you need the "Attack > Throw > Block > Attack" cycle that many games have employed.  However, right now it's mostly just "Block > Everything", forcing people to rely on stagger pressure and baiting counterhits.  While I think that's fine sometimes, for it to be the full spectrum of pressure is limiting and kind of bland.

But we'll see how it evolves when the full game comes out.  Maybe blockstring guardbreaks are really strong?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 13, 2015, 02:46:25 AM
> 1. The weather/curse orbs system.
That's what I thought at first. And unlike the weathers in 12.3 these are completely random. However, I feel their effects are not as gamebreaking as weathers so I'll see how it works out later.

> 2. Pressure/mixup.
The game has BULLET/MELEE mixup, not high/low mixup for blockstrings. If you want of course there's more mixups opened like crossups (crossup protections has been removed in this game), and up/down movement mixup.

> 3. Removal of character abilities. / character customization
I admit this one is really annoying and limits creativity. If they want to remove skill customization at least make it so a skill has more than one version- similar to IaMP.
The way it is we have very limited skill/specials on our arsenal.

> "Block > Everything"
This is true for 13.5. However in 14.5 you have legit blockstring and pressure options. They probably aren't "really strong", but they certainly are dangerous.

> Throws
There's probably ways to implement throws without breaking the lore, but you need to understand that in 12.3/13.5/14.5 damage aren't free- they make it so people need to work to do damage and also possible to escape, throw would probably be hard to balance, as you can see in 12.3 throws are either really weak (Youmu's), really wacky (Utsuho's), or really difficult to land (spellcard throws like Suika's and Suwako's).

> but there's no "standing on the ground"
There is. This is where you do grounded move. This is where you highjump. This is where you landcancel. This is where you "fall" to after jumping. Okay you can't duck, or someone can go below you (which almost means the same as someone jumping above you anyway) but that doesn't mean there's no ground. You might even consider "jumping down" as some sort of mixture between jumping and crouching, as there's some moves that can only be done if you "jumped down". (Marisa 2b)

Overall I agree that these three are rather problematic but it's not as major as people think it is. If anything the one I disliked most were the 3rd, I hope they'd change something. Maybe assign a new button for specials aside from C.
Well, that's my opinions. Don't be too harsh on me  ::)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on February 13, 2015, 04:17:29 AM
To be honest, when I hear people say "I don't like/not good at playing flying fighting games", what do you compare it to anyway?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on February 13, 2015, 09:25:05 AM
I wouldn't call it bad, but I would say certain things are concerning.

1. The weather/curse orbs system.

Obviously.  What is perhaps the worst part of this is that curse orbs are so intimately tied to gameplay that it would be problematic to just hack weather away.  I'll have to wait until whenever I can experience the game with other people in order to see what sort of effect it has on the game overall, but I can say right now I hate trying to get the Smash Ball.

2. Pressure/mixup.

The game has neither throws nor high/low mixup, which makes it hard to open people up.  I didn't play enough HM to understand how that really changed the game, but I imagine that I'll have to learn a good blockstring to even play the game at its most fundamental level.  I wish I knew why Tasafro was so against throws with regards to the Touhou fighting games, EFZ had them!

3. Removal of character abilities.

This one's pretty minor, but I thought the HM ones were cool, and I don't see much value in removing them (Reimu side-swapping, Marisa 3 star buildup, etc).  I do think all 3 characters in the demo feel good and complete, so I don't think they *need* them, but they would be nice.

-----

But there's also a lot of good things so far.  The game controls much better (partly due to the addition of a dedicated dash button) and is less floaty.  I'm one of those guys that actually prefers the lack of character customization over the previous game (Third Strike-style super picking is fine by me).  Perhaps the best thing is the removal of popularity and faith, both of which I hated.

So it's definitely got potential, but I do think weather/orbs as they exist now will prevent it from ever being a really good game, but it could be fun in doses.
I'll add in my own; I've given up on TasoFro ever making a game on par with Melty Blood.  As in, a game I'd want to show to non-Touhou fans.  Melty Blood is the game that introduced me to Tsukihime (and, by proxy, the Nasuverse) and I know I'm not alone.  I'd like something in a similar vein but for the Touhou mythos instead.  In the decade since IaMP, TasoFro has not significantly grown as a developer and feel completely behind the times.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Flandre5carlet on February 13, 2015, 10:58:19 AM
Sorry to break it to you, but Medicine getting in the top 10 30 in the popularity polls is more realistic than that  :V I wanna see something that's neither shooter nor fighter for 14.8 but that would be less realistic than the Watatsuki sisters getting in the top 50...
Don't destroy my dreams, man. ;_;

To be honest, when I hear people say "I don't like/not good at playing flying fighting games", what do you compare it to anyway?
Personally I'm just not good at fighting games in general, whether they're flying or not. :U Be it Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Hokuto no Ken,... I'm just bad at every fighter I've played, and in turn that makes them pretty unenjoyable to play.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 13, 2015, 11:03:24 AM
I'll add in my own; I've given up on TasoFro ever making a game on par with Melty Blood.  As in, a game I'd want to show to non-Touhou fans.  Melty Blood is the game that introduced me to Tsukihime (and, by proxy, the Nasuverse) and I know I'm not alone.  I'd like something in a similar vein but for the Touhou mythos instead.  In the decade since IaMP, TasoFro has not significantly grown as a developer and feel completely behind the times.

I think that's pretty subjective- to me tasofro has grown up a lot since EFZ. They are making new kind of fighters, and they are improving. Though of course, I'd have my subjectivity as well and I'm going to exclude 13.5. EFZ to IaMP to SWR to soku looks like improvement, though I won't be so sure about 14.5.
I play melty blood etc and to be honest I'm going to stick and say 12.3 is my favorite fighters of all times, it's probably tasofro's masterpiece and most popular game as well- it's easy for newbies and yet offers massive depth and rewards people who learn more and practice more.

But of course it's subjective  ::)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on February 13, 2015, 11:48:53 AM
I'll add in my own; I've given up on TasoFro ever making a game on par with Melty Blood.  As in, a game I'd want to show to non-Touhou fans.  Melty Blood is the game that introduced me to Tsukihime (and, by proxy, the Nasuverse) and I know I'm not alone.  I'd like something in a similar vein but for the Touhou mythos instead.  In the decade since IaMP, TasoFro has not significantly grown as a developer and feel completely behind the times.
Same thing for me with Tsukihime actually, and I would love something like that, but I think they want to stick making something unique for their fighters, and Melty Blood is much closer to traditional fighting games. It has complicated mechanics, but it has a standard ABCD control and standard circle/SRK-based special moves. It's not that hard to adapt for someone who has been playing fighters like Street Fighter or BlazBlue.
13.5 decided to completely abandon that and go with directional normal and special moves. I'm fine with that as I'm open to different battle systems and I'm willing to train a bit to get used to it (I mean, I had a harder time adapting for Melee than I did for HM), but I can understand people got confused over it and were not appealed by the gameplay itself.

Of course, something unique is fine, but making it appealing to all kinds of players is another task. I'm not even sure that's their goal though... :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on February 13, 2015, 02:58:12 PM
I'll add in my own; I've given up on TasoFro ever making a game on par with Melty Blood.  As in, a game I'd want to show to non-Touhou fans.  Melty Blood is the game that introduced me to Tsukihime (and, by proxy, the Nasuverse) and I know I'm not alone.  I'd like something in a similar vein but for the Touhou mythos instead.  In the decade since IaMP, TasoFro has not significantly grown as a developer and feel completely behind the times.
tbf, I don't think ANY game will ever be on par with Melty Blood. No fighter that spawned from a bigger universe has ever gotten me into said universe, except Melty Blood. Hell, Melty Blood even got me into the Fate/Stay Night series as well. (I'm still waiting for a Fate fighter similar to Melty and developed by French Bread).

It also comes from the fact that Melty Blood was so good it was THE anime fighter for a long time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 15, 2015, 02:50:36 PM
Is it reasonable to presume just from the demo that there wont be any skillsets/abilities? Tasofro might just save them for the main game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 15, 2015, 03:49:06 PM
Is it reasonable to presume just from the demo that there wont be any skillsets/abilities? Tasofro might just save them for the main game.

It's possible, but at least, I find it pretty likely that they'd add one more button for skills/specials.

I'm not sure whether if I'll get the bingo this time but I had a ton of bingos for my predictions of 14.5 trial  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 15, 2015, 05:30:18 PM
I can't remember if HM had a demo at all, but from the ULiL demo I'd just guess they're saving the best for later.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on February 15, 2015, 06:01:59 PM
I can't remember if HM had a demo at all, but from the ULiL demo I'd just guess they're saving the best for later.
HM had a demo, and even had another web demo released around april 2013 with new moves (oooh, time sure flies fast)
Not sure wether Tasofro plans to do things the same way for ULiL, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 15, 2015, 06:30:08 PM
There's usually another demo around a month before the release.

So we can expect something coming this April!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on February 15, 2015, 06:33:36 PM
HM's first demo was very different from how the game originally came out.  Your last words had to be equiped in slots just like every other attack, and it was nearly impossible to declare+use spellcard when an opponent was stunned.  Stunning alone was already much harder. 

So yeah I'm pretty positive ULiL will be pretty different when the next demo comes out! 
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on February 15, 2015, 08:00:25 PM
HM's first demo was very different from how the game originally came out.  Your last words had to be equiped in slots just like every other attack, and it was nearly impossible to declare+use spellcard when an opponent was stunned.  Stunning alone was already much harder. 
Actually it was much easier. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXCrGQ9Duv8) The white stun was much longer than the full/web demo version, as you can see how I had enough time to dash half screen to the opponent, declare, and adjust before using it and still being able to confirm the combo (on top of SC damage remaining unscaled like a raw declare).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on February 18, 2015, 04:11:24 AM
Some changes I'm quite sure will be added, are the obvious complete SCs for Kasen and customizable skills on the C moves, akin to HM but you only have one button to customize.
I mean, Reimu and Marisa are fine, but is there anyone who can find a good use of Kasen's 2C? Aside from maybe, as an overhead, but it's too slow.
Though since the skills are incorporated to the dial As, I guess it won't happen. But I wish it will.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 18, 2015, 04:29:32 AM
Some changes I'm quite sure will be added, are the obvious complete SCs for Kasen and customizable skills on the C moves, akin to HM but you only have one button to customize.
I mean, Reimu and Marisa are fine, but is there anyone who can find a good use of Kasen's 2C? Aside from maybe, as an overhead, but it's too slow.
Though since the skills are incorporated to the dial As, I guess it won't happen. But I wish it will.

They'd add one more button for skills most likely.
Kasen's 2C creates that lightning in front of her which has decent hitbox, and aside from that is also a decent safe on block melee special
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on February 18, 2015, 04:56:25 AM
Actually it was much easier. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXCrGQ9Duv8) The white stun was much longer than the full/web demo version, as you can see how I had enough time to dash half screen to the opponent, declare, and adjust before using it and still being able to confirm the combo (on top of SC damage remaining unscaled like a raw declare).

Huh, funny!  Back when I tried the demo out there were like... one or two combos which I actually managed to pull of declaring and attacking.  Maybe it wasn't the very first demo, hm.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 18, 2015, 11:17:39 PM
I'm looking forward to playing the next demo as well, hoping to see more useful changes. Also I'm quite impressed with the bot AI in versus mode, never thought I'd get combo'd into a spellcard by Reimu.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on February 23, 2015, 10:04:13 AM
I noticed that too. Usually I play these games by beating up on a harmless punching-bag AI, but this time they can fight back a bit. Someone actually good at these sorts of games might not even notice, but it's quite an upgrade.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on February 23, 2015, 03:49:04 PM
I'm looking forward to playing the next demo as well, hoping to see more useful changes. Also I'm quite impressed with the bot AI in versus mode, never thought I'd get combo'd into a spellcard by Reimu.

Do we know if they'll put a free demo on their website as they did with HM?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 24, 2015, 06:09:02 PM
Do we know if they'll put a free demo on their website as they did with HM?

It has always been that way, so we can expect something coming in less than 2 months  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on February 24, 2015, 06:24:01 PM
"Something" like spell cards, new specials, a few changes in the mechanics, a new stage, and a new bgm, maybe ? I can totally see new "weathers" being added later too !
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on February 25, 2015, 08:33:41 AM
Spoiler from the new chapter of "Kosuzu's shady business".
http://imgur.com/a/bQYn0

It has not been confirmed that this chapter is connected to Touhou 14.5 - in fact the chapter is supposed to come out tomorrow (the street date is Feb 26, and it's Feb 25 in Japan now), but people are already getting excited. I'll make sure you know if this is unrelated.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 25, 2015, 04:13:05 PM
Spoiler from the new chapter of "Kosuzu's shady business".
http://imgur.com/a/bQYn0

It has not been confirmed that this chapter is connected to Touhou 14.5 - in fact the chapter is supposed to come out tomorrow (the street date is Feb 26, and it's Feb 25 in Japan now), but people are already getting excited. I'll make sure you know if this is unrelated.

It looks pretty likely to be related! The outfit that person wore looks pretty similar with the silhouetted character at the end of the demo story mode.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on February 25, 2015, 04:45:15 PM
Further spoilers indicate this may be another one-off story lol.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on February 25, 2015, 05:52:44 PM
An evil faced caped guy with sharp nose and ears? I am fine with this. Seems Suzunaan wants to end the monopoly of youkainess from lovely female characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 25, 2015, 07:55:10 PM
If that person turns out to be the character in the silhouette, calling it now, it's a disguise~
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on February 25, 2015, 08:29:38 PM
An evil faced caped guy with sharp nose and ears?

No. Thanks.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 25, 2015, 09:18:02 PM
I'm looking forward to reading the new chapter then to see if it holds anything related to the games, though I really doubt the character is genuinely the silhouette, I don't feel like ZUN would give it away that easily.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on February 25, 2015, 10:20:49 PM
I'm looking forward to reading the new chapter then to see if it holds anything related to the games, though I really doubt the character is genuinely the silhouette, I don't feel like ZUN would give it away that easily.

Indeed, that definitely would be anti-ZUN.  Not to mention the character is male and well... ZUN said himself sometime ago it'd feel off if he were to put a male boss in a Touhou game.

I remember when he considered putting an old man as UFO's final boss before eventually abandoning the idea.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 25, 2015, 10:32:26 PM
Indeed, that definitely would be anti-ZUN.  Not to mention the character is male and well... ZUN said himself sometime ago it'd feel off if he were to put a male boss in a Touhou game.

I remember when he considered putting an old man as UFO's final boss before eventually abandoning the idea.
I remember that as well, if I remember correctly the old man was supposed to be Myouren Hijiri. Either way, I doubt that character is the silhouette. If it is I stick by my theory that it'll probably be a disguise to look more menacing for the actual perpetrator herself if it actually is the figure behind the silhouette.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on February 26, 2015, 01:07:24 AM
I've now taken a look at the spoiler. This is a one-off story, unlikely to have anything to do with Touhou 14.5.

It is a very serious one, however.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TheTeff007 on February 26, 2015, 02:29:16 AM
Out of curiosity, what does the text reads in the third image?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on February 26, 2015, 04:14:57 AM
I think if it's not this character, at least the silhouetted character probably has something to do with him; probably his sister, or another person- same species. Their outfit seem to similar to be a coincidence.
This character is too tall for that silhouette anyway.
Out of curiosity, what does the text reads in the third image?

Ore wo jiyuu ni shite kurenai ka ?
Can you let me be free?

CMIIW  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on February 26, 2015, 04:26:45 AM
Maybe the silhouette is Kosozu using the guy's cape for some reason or another.

Except that it is still very clearly Mima
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Usamiko on February 26, 2015, 04:51:21 AM
I've seen the raws. Seemed like the standard "old evil youkai awakens, causes mayhem, then Reimu curbstomps."

Though since cuc said it's very serious, I'm still rather intrigued.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on February 26, 2015, 01:02:13 PM
Looking forward to a translation, though I do have a lurking suspicion the youkai-wizard guy probably will have something to do with the silhouette, though him actually BEING the silhouette seems unlikely for me. Also considering the chapter name was "An Ancient Evil Awakens" it might have something to do with ULiL's incident, or at least that's what I'm guessing. Can't read japanese so I'm just working from what I see visually. Inb4thesilhouetteisKosuzu
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TheTeff007 on February 26, 2015, 05:20:00 PM
I'm bound to believe that Kosuzu will appear in the game as fighter, mainly because
she was already possesed in a previous chapter, so that will allow this new character to use her to manifest herself
although it seems unlikely, but it could happen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Merraz on March 04, 2015, 07:15:19 PM
Anybody knows something about the release date for this game?

I really liked HM, didn't play the demo but I know I gonna love it lol
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on March 04, 2015, 07:31:01 PM
Anybody knows something about the release date for this game?

I really liked HM, didn't play the demo but I know I gonna love it lol
I think it'll be coming in May's Reitatsei, probably. Might get a demo in April though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Merraz on March 04, 2015, 08:03:20 PM
I think it'll be coming in May's Reitatsei, probably. Might get a demo in April though.
Hmm...  I see...

wow wow wow, wait, a demo?

There's not already a demo?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: LunaWillow on March 04, 2015, 08:26:01 PM
Hmm...  I see...

wow wow wow, wait, a demo?

There's not already a demo?
There is, but it's only early version of the game. Next one will be updated and will better show the full game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Merraz on March 04, 2015, 08:59:38 PM
Oh welp, At this rate we'll end up waiting for a third demo and DLC for all the characters in the final version lol

I don't like demos, Final version always ends being totally different to the demos ones!

Also, I haven't been reading the mangas lately, but did Shinmyoumaru already recovered her size? I've heard that she will be in this one (http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j443/MerrazHQ/zfna_zpse4fa4e74.png) (http://s1086.photobucket.com/user/MerrazHQ/media/zfna_zpse4fa4e74.png.html)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on March 04, 2015, 09:11:05 PM
She's small now, but IIRC, it's stated somewhere that she's "waiting for the mallet's power to return", which is presumably a convenient excuse for her to grow again whenever ZUN wants her in a game (like with DDC).  My memory could be off.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dream Wanderer on March 04, 2015, 10:08:24 PM
If Hanako becomes a playable character like the datamined character list may suggest, I wonder what her backstory is going to be? If she does, I could see her maybe being connected to an old, abandoned school that falls into Gensokyo from the outside world. (Similar to what was shown on the promotional poster for the game) If that's the case, a darkly lit classroom/hallway/bathroom could serve as her associated stage's location, and it makes me wonder what impact it's appearance could have on the story.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Merraz on March 04, 2015, 11:17:06 PM
If Hanako becomes a playable character like the datamined character list may suggest, I wonder what her backstory is going to be? If she does, I could see her maybe being connected to an old, abandoned school that falls into Gensokyo from the outside world. (Similar to what was shown on the promotional poster for the game) If that's the case, a darkly lit classroom/hallway/bathroom could serve as her associated stage's location, and it makes me wonder what impact it's appearance could have on the story.
Wow... an old abandoned school.... that sounds very creepy (http://bunbunmaru.freeforums.org/images/smilies/24-.jpg.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Marron on March 05, 2015, 12:20:09 AM
Oh yeah, an abandoned school, with Maribel and Renko exploring it while you fight hehe.  :toot: (Oh, btw, Maribel is able to go to Gensokyo more freely now ???)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on March 05, 2015, 12:04:27 PM
I'd like to see the final boss have a connection with the Illuminati. It would fit in well with the whole theme of urban legends.

A 2hu Beethoven would be great too
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on March 05, 2015, 01:41:37 PM
Also, I haven't been reading the mangas lately, but did Shinmyoumaru already recovered her size? I've heard that she will be in this one

Impossible Spell Card shows her with the same size she had in Double Dealing Character, so I'd assume yes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on March 05, 2015, 02:39:50 PM
If Hanako becomes a playable character like the datamined character list may suggest, I wonder what her backstory is going to be? If she does, I could see her maybe being connected to an old, abandoned school that falls into Gensokyo from the outside world. (Similar to what was shown on the promotional poster for the game) If that's the case, a darkly lit classroom/hallway/bathroom could serve as her associated stage's location, and it makes me wonder what impact it's appearance could have on the story.
Ah. We can't be sure of whether "Hanako"'ll be the name of the actual character or not. Besides, it'd seem pretty suspicious if Marisa somehow use her Hanako related occult LW against Hanako. But if it is, then either we get a character that'll be very vulgar in the fanworks or the actual urban legend Hanako with the usual ZUN twist.

An old school getting in Gensokyo sounds pretty likely, that and Marisa's sudden interest in school related urban legends ! ... If it happens to be like that, I hope her story mode won't be something like doing a test of courage in the abandonned school, that would be too simple  :V

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on March 08, 2015, 02:52:55 PM
Ah. We can't be sure of whether "Hanako"'ll be the name of the actual character or not. Besides, it'd seem pretty suspicious if Marisa somehow use her Hanako related occult LW against Hanako. But if it is, then either we get a character that'll be very vulgar in the fanworks or the actual urban legend Hanako with the usual ZUN twist.

An old school getting in Gensokyo sounds pretty likely, that and Marisa's sudden interest in school related urban legends ! ... If it happens to be like that, I hope her story mode won't be something like doing a test of courage in the abandonned school, that would be too simple  :V


Indeed, because of Marisa's last word, "Hanako" just seems like a nickname for the character, who knows, it might not even be the name of the main antagonist! PleasebanAkaManto-relatedvillainplease.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on March 09, 2015, 11:54:04 PM
Guys, guys! The silhouette girl got leaked!

Quote from: leak
(http://i.imgur.com/ZfvwUm5.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on March 10, 2015, 01:16:03 AM
Guys, guys! The silhouette girl got leaked!

Size 666 x 940 pixels.
Coincidence? I THINK NOT!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kaizaki on March 10, 2015, 02:30:52 AM
Where was this found?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on March 10, 2015, 02:42:06 AM
Where was this found?

danbooru :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on March 10, 2015, 03:20:30 AM
...Who does she remind me of? Maybe someone from DBZ, I honestly can't remember anyone from that show.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on March 10, 2015, 03:50:16 AM
http://dragonquest.wikia.com/wiki/Alena

personally i think it's amazing that you tied it to dbz since toriyama draws both series
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on March 10, 2015, 06:12:40 AM
http://dragonquest.wikia.com/wiki/Alena

Personally i think it's amazing that you tied it to dbz since toriyama draws both series

Lol I've never even played dragon quest. I think that says less about me and more about his character design.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on March 10, 2015, 07:00:57 PM
Guys, guys! The silhouette girl got leaked!

You almost had me there you...! On that note, reminds me of a picture someone drew on tumblr of how she thought the silhouette would look  like (http://currycheesecake.tumblr.com/image/109348090014). The design's based off the Aka Manto urban legend, I'd say it's a pretty neat interpretation of it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on March 10, 2015, 08:51:14 PM
... You know what ? If she actually throws her cape off,a lot of speculation'll get thrown along wih it ... (unlikely, but that would be fun)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on March 10, 2015, 09:00:35 PM
Guys, guys! The silhouette girl got leaked!

img (http://i.imgur.com/ZfvwUm5.png)
... You are a special kind of monster Well, it's as legit as Mima  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 07, 2015, 01:13:30 PM
Reitaisai is on May 10, so I think we can expect new info towards the end of April.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 07, 2015, 04:01:52 PM
We can expect the actual game's release on May 10th, right? Either way now I'm more excited for this month
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 11, 2015, 10:29:31 AM
Unabara tweeted the update in Tasofro's homepage for ULiL
http://tasofro.net/touhou145/index.html

Release date confirmed. Reitaisai 12, May 10th 2015.
New cover jacket with new character's silhouette.
Mokou (http://tasofro.net/touhou145/img/chara_04.jpg) and Shinmyoumaru (http://tasofro.net/touhou145/img/chara_05.jpg) confirmed
On another note, Mokou is officially flat as a board

Ya better start hyping. Also, I think it's safe to trust any gamecode hack to reveal the rosters from now on.

There's some fun details there, but wait a while before I put them here.
Also, Unabara said that they'll be updating the news periodically starting from now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on April 11, 2015, 10:42:06 AM
Moe's Shinmyoumaru is as cute as ever.

And the HM characters (or at least Miko and Byakuren), as expected.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on April 11, 2015, 11:03:47 AM
Quote from: http://tasofro.net/touhou145/chara.html
オカルト「人体自然発火現象」

炎を操る不死の人。身に纏う炎を駆使した格闘戦キャラ
フットワークが軽く、己の身を省みない接近戦こそ真骨頂

オカルトアタックは「人体自然発火」
使用すると体が青い炎で燃え上がり、
体力を犠牲に火力を増加する
オカルトアタック以外でも、
妹紅は自傷ダメージを受ける行動が多いので
体力回復必殺技であるリザレクションでフォローしよう
Occult "Spontaneous Human Combustion Phenomenon"

A fire-manipulating immortal. A character that fights hand-to-hand with their body wrapped in controllable flames.
Light on her feet, she doesn't hold back and fights in close combat without regard for her own body.

Her Occult Attack is "Spontaneous Human Combustion"
When used, her body bursts into blue flames, and at the cost of some health, her fire's power increases.
Even outside of her Occult Attack, Mokou uses many attacks that damage herself, so you should follow up with her health-restoring technique, "Resurrection".



im ded
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on April 11, 2015, 11:22:41 AM
Occult "Spontaneous Human Combustion Phenomenon"

It reminds me that in wahh 24 there was that dragon trained by Kasen that could cause "spontaneous human combustion" by covering itself in lightning and stricking them (not just humans actually, it could burn down anything). Probably just a coincidence, but...

Also, i don't know how they did for the others games outside of HM, but i find it weird that they revealed everyone so fast (implying HM cast is there by default). I'm probably expecting too much, but i hope there will be someone else in place of some from HM.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 11, 2015, 11:40:20 AM
I don't remember how it was before, so I dunno if there's anything new in the story preview.

So I'll start with Mokou and Shinmyoumaru's profile

Fujiwara no Mokou - Blaze! Human Inferno
Occult Name : "Spontaneous Human Combustion Phenomenon" (No explanation needed, I guess)
An immortal human that can manipulate fire. Melee-type character utilizing flames, clad all over her body.
With a light footwork, she fights on close combat without regards on her own body.
(http://tasofro.net/touhou145/img/sc04.jpg)
Her Occult attack is "Spontaneous Human Combustion".
Using it will start to kindle her body in blue flames. Increases attack power at the expense of reducing health. However, she also has several moves that will use up her health, so use her regeneration skill "Resurrection" as a follow-up for that.

Sukuna Shinmyoumaru - Fake! Inchling in Green
Occult Name : "Little Green Men" (Almost certianly Liliput or Leprechauns, but it may refer to Xiaoluren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaoluren))
An inchling fighting with Needle swordsmanship and a mysterious mallet. Tiny, but she compensates with dynamic attacks and reach using her whole body. A combatant that circles around her opponent using flurry of attacks.
(http://tasofro.net/touhou145/img/sc05.jpg)
Her Occult attack is "The Little Green Men Tumbled".
Call upon green inchlings that will sneak and float over the opponent. When the opponent shows their back to them, they'll strike with ruthless attacks.

Moe's Shinmyoumaru is as cute as ever.

And the HM characters (or at least Miko and Byakuren), as expected.
I didn't notice that at first  :V
Ehem, excuse me.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

EDIT: Half ninja'd by Drake   :derp:
Fixed from cuc's correction.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on April 11, 2015, 12:01:42 PM
it's ok you ninja'd my shinmyoumaru edit so we're even
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 11, 2015, 12:18:54 PM
Shinmyoumaru art is nice. Mokou art is eh. Her arms are a little thin. Nevertheless,  I'm excited that these two got confirmed.

I assume that Mokou playstyle is brute forcing while damaging herself while Shinmyoumaru is attacking from afar while hiding herself in the bowl.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 11, 2015, 12:25:31 PM
it's ok you ninja'd my shinmyoumaru edit so we're even
Not a problem. In fact, I realize that I mistranslated some parts for Mokou after seeing yours. Thank you.

Anyway, doesn't seem to be anything new from the texts so there's only the pictures left to speculate on.
Still, the new character's silhouette is huge, and it seems to be the same black figure from the demo, so I guess no mid/penultimate boss? Hopefully not.
(http://tasofro.net/touhou145/img/th145front.jpg)
 
Posting pictures here, in case their server got heavy
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 11, 2015, 12:29:54 PM
So, Mokou's basically a more close-range oriented Carmine (http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Under_Night_In-Birth/Carmine)? (Don't really know any other character who needs to spend HP to maintain pressure.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on April 11, 2015, 12:30:45 PM
The cover totally has Pac-Man in it  :V

Sukuna is funny in her cup. She also upgraded her head cup to a head plate.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Espadas on April 11, 2015, 12:40:36 PM
The cover totally has Pac-Man in it  :V

CANNOT UNSEEEEEEE  :V

I guess Mokou's playstyle could make her fights either shorter than usual (burning her hp faster) or actually longer with Resurrection....
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 11, 2015, 12:45:11 PM
So, Mokou's basically a more close-range oriented Carmine (http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Under_Night_In-Birth/Carmine)? (Don't really know any other character who needs to spend HP to maintain pressure.)

You're forgetting A.B.A?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 11, 2015, 12:50:21 PM
Oops. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on April 11, 2015, 01:02:56 PM
Increases attack power at the expense of reducing health. However, she also has several moves that will use up her health, so use her regeneration skill "Resurrection" as a follow-up for that.
So there's still some gimmick of sorts but less obvious ? Interesting. Hope her regeneration ability won't be something that get spamed a lot nor too "overpowered" though, also... feather danmaku ?.  It's been a decade but she finally got in a game, I bet we'll see few a "congratulations Moko-tan~" fanarts  later, haha

On a side note, the midget seems kinda big here, how tall is she supposed to be ?!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SerB18 on April 11, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
Although I was glad to see a DDC character to appear, I was still a little disappointed it wasn't Seija. I mean, sure she`s not my favorite character but I always wondered what Seija`s flipping abilities do in a fighting game. I haven`t played any character in a fighting game capable of flipping things up.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MewMewHeart on April 11, 2015, 01:15:55 PM
Sukuna is so adorable, also my friends are happy about Mokou being the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 11, 2015, 01:42:09 PM
Shinmyoumaru's Occult Attack is called "The Little Green Men Tumbled" 「緑の小人さんが転んだ」.

It is based on a children's game, "Daruma ga koron da" ("the Daruma doll tumbled"), which is the Japanese equivalent of "Red light, green light" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statues_%28game%29#Darumasan_ga_Koronda). Daruma doll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daruma_doll) is the Japanese tumbling doll.

Similar to the game, the opponent will got attacked by the little green men if she has her back turned to them, something like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MewMewHeart on April 11, 2015, 01:47:17 PM
Shinmyoumaru's Occult Attack is called "The Little Green Men Tumbled" 「緑の小人さんが転んだ」.

It is based on a children's game, "Daruma ga koron da" ("the Daruma doll tumbled"), which is the Japanese equivalent of "Red light, green light" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statues_%28game%29#Darumasan_ga_Koronda). Daruma doll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daruma_doll) is the Japanese tumbling doll.

Similar to the game, the opponent will got attacked by the little green men if she has her back turned to them, something like that.
Basically the Touhou version of boos?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 11, 2015, 01:58:46 PM
HELL YEAH, Mokou! And Shinmyoumaru looks really cute too~

It was about time for Mokou to show up on a fighter.
It's a shame she has no boobs, though.
:V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 11, 2015, 02:06:31 PM
Shinmyoumaru's Occult Attack is called "The Little Green Men Tumbled" 「緑の小人さんが転んだ」.

It is based on a children's game, "Daruma ga koron da" ("the Daruma doll tumbled"), which is the Japanese equivalent of "Red light, green light" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statues_%28game%29#Darumasan_ga_Koronda). Daruma doll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daruma_doll) is the Japanese tumbling doll.

Similar to the game, the opponent will got attacked by the little green men if she has her back turned to them, something like that.
Didn't realize that the attack texts is different. That explains how it works more clearly. Thanks, corrected my comment.

Basically Shinmyoumaru is a trap character with Zappa's ghosts but not random. She needs to move around left and right to make the opponent turned over so the green inchlings can attack. From how it sounds, it seems their attacks are unblockable.
The combo potential seems high, but needs a bit of getting used to
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 11, 2015, 02:17:48 PM
Even outside of her Occult Attack, Mokou uses many attacks that damage herself, so you should follow up with her health-restoring technique, "Resurrection".
Someone told me the loanword フォロー here should be understood as "to compensate/make up for". Not that this matters much.

Also according to dictionaries, the meaning of the word 眉唾 is closer to "dubious, sketchy, fishy", with an emphasis on being suspicious, and/or attention should be paid to separate the false from the true. I'm still unsure what it exactly signifies in Shinmyoumaru's title. Probably it's about the believability of little green alien stories.

(The word literally means "spit on the brows". Apparently the etymology is that a fox's disguise can be dispelled this way.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 11, 2015, 02:32:05 PM
RELEASE DATE YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

So if Mokou and Sukuna are confirmed, then we now know that the new character is gonna be Hanako, the toilet spirit.

Wonder how that would work, given Marisa's Strange Last Word.

But yeah, I'm excited now. Release date! May 10th! A mere 30 days from now!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 11, 2015, 02:50:52 PM
Oh by the way, a most important change.

Twilight Frontier's site no longer blocks Asian IPs. Took them long enough to fix that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on April 11, 2015, 03:46:22 PM
The cover totally has Pac-Man in it  :V
(http://i.imgur.com/MpJDxB2.jpg)
Colon vee is canon now.

Anyway, I'm kind of happy for this screenshot:
(http://i.imgur.com/gYfONhi.jpg)
It heavy implies that personal gimmicks are being axed. Along with decks propably being axed in favor of all specials being available all the time and spells being picked before battle, I might finally get to like Byakuren's and Koishi's playstyles and find them less boring if they get access to all their moves without having to prepare them (from the tournament replays of HM I've seen, everyone simply spams normals and pagoda as those two instead of actually putting their movesets to use, only sometimes going for Skanda and Radar/Catch and Rose respectively).

Now all I need is some nice guard system (preferably a simple guard break bar), maybe some actual midscreen pressure (not sure how that was handled in HM, but I can't quite picture corner carry hjc blockstrings from grounded fighters working in aerial ones if one can just jump downwards to escape, maybe someone's willing to clarify), good new characters and this might just rival 12.3 on my list of favorite fighters.

(http://i.imgur.com/rVgmsCO.jpg)
Badass  :V.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: N-Forza on April 11, 2015, 03:47:38 PM
Nice sleeves, Mokou.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on April 11, 2015, 04:10:53 PM
While Reimu, Marisa and Kasen look bit chubby (due to their facial structure) > Mokou and Shinmyoumaru look normal again. I guess some of the girls ate bit too much since HM :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 11, 2015, 04:29:41 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/EDaVqyd.jpg)

Wait a second, I just realized something.

Remember how the names are in Western order? We've had DDC confirmed for a Western release recently. Does this mean that ULiL is going to see one as well?

EDIT: Ah, so the latest images have the names in their original order again. Disregard what I said then.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on April 11, 2015, 04:48:33 PM
Wait a second, I just realized something.

Remember how the names are in Western order? We've had DDC confirmed for a Western release recently. Does this mean that ULiL is going to see one as well?

They've usually been like that. Ever since ZUN started putting romanized names in the games (PCB). It means nothing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 11, 2015, 04:50:56 PM
They've usually been like that. Ever since ZUN started putting romanized names in the games (PCB). It means nothing.

And even then, the latest images have the names back to "Kirisame Marisa" and "Hakurei Reimu", which for some reason I didn't notice until just now.

So yeah, I said nothing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 11, 2015, 05:20:26 PM
Any idea on what the last words for Mokou and Sukuna will be then?
OnanothernotewegotnewsearlierthanexpectedWOOOOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on April 11, 2015, 07:04:26 PM
While Reimu, Marisa and Kasen look bit chubby (due to their facial structure) > Mokou and Shinmyoumaru look normal again. I guess some of the girls ate bit too much since HM :V
We can also talk about how, Reimu has her hair magically grown in each fighting series...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on April 11, 2015, 08:41:15 PM
Just the fighting series, you say?  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on April 11, 2015, 09:18:32 PM
Just the fighting series, you say?  :V
Forbidden Scrollery too right? I haven't seen her anywhere else with long hair...
EDIT: Oh, UFO too...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on April 11, 2015, 09:27:35 PM
*high-pitched screaming*
Goddamn these news made my day!

Now if only Seiga also somehow gets in.......

Forbidden Scrollery too right? I haven't seen her anywhere else with long hair...
EDIT: Oh, UFO too...
And in PC-98. And in PoFV. And MoF.
Considering sometimes a whole year passes between games, it isn't too surprising her hair would change length between games.

On a side note, the midget seems kinda big here, how tall is she supposed to be ?!
She used the mallet to get big again, most certainly. She was waiting for it to recharge so she could do just that in FS.

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on April 11, 2015, 09:34:52 PM
And in PC-98. And in PoFV. And MoF.
Yeah. I knew about PC-98. Haven't noticed PoFV had long hair. And I forgot MoF...
*high-pitched screaming*
Goddamn these news made my day!

Now if only Seiga also somehow gets in.......
Sanae? Everybody forgets Sanae!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kirin no Sora on April 11, 2015, 09:40:07 PM
Sorry for being late for the Fujiwara hype train, but since the following came up...

On another note, Mokou is officially flat as a board

I would like to make a note on why that is...

I personally blame the Hourai Elixir as the reason for Mokou's flatness, as it prevented her body from experiencing puberty and all the effects that it would have, including chest size. After all, one dose of Hourai does "prevent one from growing up", and Mokou took all three, so it makes sense that she's flat. She grew in height because that's what her body was doing, and I don't think that the Hourai Elixir prevents growth in that way. But as for the proportions that grown women end up having compared to little girls, Mokou effectively missed out. Not saying that that's a negative for Mokou, just different.

Come to think of it, I imagine that a whole discussion could be made out of that, couldn't it?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on April 11, 2015, 10:21:34 PM
I personally blame the Hourai Elixir as the reason for Mokou's flatness, as it prevented her body from experiencing puberty and all the effects that it would have, including chest size. After all, one dose of Hourai does "prevent one from growing up", and Mokou took all three, so it makes sense that she's flat. She grew in height because that's what her body was doing, and I don't think that the Hourai Elixir prevents growth in that way. But as for the proportions that grown women end up having compared to little girls, Mokou effectively missed out. Not saying that that's a negative for Mokou, just different.
That, or, you know... she's a naturally flat chested woman.
Those exist.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on April 11, 2015, 10:36:16 PM
Forbidden Scrollery too right? I haven't seen her anywhere else with long hair...
EDIT: Oh, UFO too...
Like almost every game she had been having alternative length of hair, whether it be short, medium or long.



Mokou looks like she hardly cares in her introduction portrait and Shinmyoumaru is hyped/excited about this. I am digging this game for now, and need to get my hands on it at Reitaisai.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on April 11, 2015, 10:46:10 PM
Like almost every game she had been having alternative length of hair, whether it be short, medium or long.
There have to be some sort of hardcore hairdresser working behind the scenes
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on April 11, 2015, 11:13:22 PM
There have to be some sort of hardcore hairdresser working behind the scenes

I like thinking there are youkai hairdressers and tailors that give every girl pretty looks as games go by
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Lambda on April 12, 2015, 12:42:55 AM
I like thinking there are youkai hairdressers and tailors that give every girl pretty looks as games go by
they would totally be kamikiri (http://yokai.com/kamikiri/)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 12, 2015, 02:53:05 AM
By the way, considering that the AI isn't a total derp now, I hope there's gonna be an Arcade Mode.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on April 12, 2015, 03:12:26 AM
Well, this was a nice surprise!  Shinmyoumaru is extremely adorable!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Aya Reiko on April 12, 2015, 07:29:29 AM
That, or, you know... she's a naturally flat chested woman.
Those exist.
Or her choice of fashion isn't naturally conductive to showing off her figure.  At all.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 12, 2015, 01:04:36 PM
My friends did the thing they usually do.

(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/co1_zpsulcmvwjv.png)(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/co2_zps1w2dcnnx.png)

The cover art, aside from the logo, consist of three main layers: the character silhouette, decorative patterns, and a photo of a telecom tower. The combination of geometrically shaped holes on the patterns, shapes that are part of the patterns themselves, and some devious use of pallettes, has made the cover hard to read. It's easy to mistake some of the holes with the character silhouette.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 12, 2015, 01:16:00 PM
Huh, those kinda look like cards around her, is that of any significance (aside from spell cards)?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on April 12, 2015, 01:25:00 PM
Huh, those kinda look like cards around her, is that of any significance (aside from spell cards)?
Well, either spell cards (it's the spell card tsukumogami!) or ofuda like those used by Reimu.
Or maybe they are simple papers and the character's ability is to materialize things drawn on them, like that guy from jojo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: snowflake247 on April 12, 2015, 03:03:33 PM
Where's her other leg?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 12, 2015, 03:22:41 PM
Mmm, I'm going to take a wild guess and say those "cards" around her are playing cards that she utilizes in some way, maybe part of her ability or her danmaku? Maybe she'll be the youkai of cheating, I'm presuming because of her cape and her overly-flashy reveal that she'll be another character that might fit under the bill as a genuinely antagonistic touhou.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on April 12, 2015, 03:45:28 PM
I'm now getting the feel of a shady fortune teller from her. It surely would fit the occult theme and the cards could also hint in that direction.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on April 12, 2015, 03:52:22 PM
I'm now getting the feel of a shady fortune teller from her. It surely would fit the occult theme and the cards could also hint in that direction.

That would make sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Malyszeq on April 12, 2015, 04:15:18 PM
Or this:

Kyōrinrin - Possessed scrolls or papers.

(taken from Wiki)

A tsukumogami created from newspaper stories of unexplained phenomena (the papers it has in the silhoutte are alleged photographs of UFO's bigfoots, etc., and she can get the to become real.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 12, 2015, 06:06:11 PM
My friends did the thing they usually do.

(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/co1_zpsulcmvwjv.png)(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/co2_zps1w2dcnnx.png)

The cover art, aside from the logo, consist of three main layers: the character silhouette, decorative patterns, and a photo of a telecom tower. The combination of geometrically shaped holes on the patterns, shapes that are part of the patterns themselves, and some devious use of pallettes, has made the cover hard to read. It's easy to mistake some of the holes with the character silhouette.

Methinks she's going to be some sort of mix between several urban legends. I mean...
1) Her name is Hanako, like the toilet spirit (At least according to the data rip).
2) Assuming those square things are paper, they could be Aka Manto's red and blue paper.
3) She seems to have only one leg, which hints towards Keshima Reiko (even though that one lost both her legs).
I wish this could explain what's up with her strange turban-with-a-handle, though (Gozu, maybe?).

So I'm gonna assume our newhu is either that or a Kyorinrin, like Malyszeq said (Who knows, maybe she's even both!).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on April 12, 2015, 06:18:27 PM
Quote
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/co1_zpsulcmvwjv.png)(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/co2_zps1w2dcnnx.png)

From the right-upper part, i thought it may be those zig zag papers (shide), the ones on Reimu's gohei, Kanako's shimewara, and Tenshi's keystones. Not that there'd a high chance of it being the case if she were the 2evil4u character archetype.

About Mokou, can you imagine the difference in her being able to KO herself by using her own moves and being left with merely 1 hp?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Jonath on April 12, 2015, 09:01:00 PM
I'm surprised people aren't talking that much about Nue. Some have said her spellcards were references to Urban Legends. Well here we go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOmgTjn4Oc4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7fFxjstkDE

Ninja edit :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxStoWBHKsI
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on April 12, 2015, 09:27:40 PM
I thought the same Jonath, i can't believe Nue isn't involved at all in this. Maybe Hanako (the silhouette) is related to her and Mamizou in some way, and this would give Mami at least a single reason to be in the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on April 12, 2015, 11:25:39 PM
Remember there's usually a midboss before the boss...
Who do you think it will be?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 12, 2015, 11:35:01 PM
Actually if I'm right we saw Hanako and Boss in the names found in the files, that could mean there is another space for another character (although it's very unlikely it's Nue because instead of Hanako it would say Nue, as with every old character)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 13, 2015, 12:36:58 AM
Well, people are speculating on this too, about Nue possibly being in the game (source is Touhoumemory's blog (http://blog.livedoor.jp/tohomemory/archives/43598904.html))
(http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tohomemory/imgs/c/9/c9ad10b0.jpg)
It's thought to be a hidden reference to Nue's Danmaku X spellcard from DS. (B-But...that's Pacman!)
Also, there's her other SCs, like
Any of those ring a bell?

Either she's Nue in disguise(which is unlikely since Mamizou was listed with her name back in HM) or a separate character. Still, remember the "???" in the gamecode? Perhaps that is Nue fooling with our perception using her Seed of Non-Identification 

Unrelated, but I look forward to what this guy have in mind for the rest of ULiL's casts
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25793936
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TheTeff007 on April 13, 2015, 01:19:36 AM
Now that you mentioned it... it does make sense, considering how Nue has a Urban Legend status herself, unlike some of the other girls that reference them in their spellcards (if any, currently busy with some other things to remember from the top of my head)

I'm so excited to see her in the cast! It would have been slightly odd to have a cast of 14 instead of 15, going by previous games. Then again, it's not like ZUN has a pattern or something...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 13, 2015, 01:24:32 AM
It's sorta an elephant in the room thing, but the character profile showed that the main reason Mokou needs to Resurrect herself in a fight is because her body cannot withstand her own fire. If nothing else, the fighting games are the best opportunities to clarify the characters' fighting styles.

We got plenty of hints for Mokou's self-immolation in Touhou 14.3, but actually this was represented as early as The Wind Extra, the manga that comes with BAiJR.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kirin no Sora on April 13, 2015, 01:49:23 AM
That, or, you know... she's a naturally flat chested woman.
Those exist.
Or her choice of fashion isn't naturally conductive to showing off her figure.  At all.

Well, those are good alternative theories as to why Mokou is that way. But honestly, the reason that I said that was due to me trying to solve the fridge logic of Mokou being all grown up when she took the elixir as a child, in spite of the fact that the elixir is supposed to keep a person from growing up or old at all. I mean, if it was supposed to keep her from growing up at all, then shouldn't Mokou look no different then the day that she took the elixir? That kind of bothered me a bit, in all truth...

Oh, and sorry if this sort of thing is considered derailing the subject, I didn't mean to cause such issues. I'm just saying what I think is all...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on April 13, 2015, 02:12:17 AM
We don't know how old she was when she took the Elixir. We only know that she was "young", which's very vague. Also note that the drawing of her (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:CiLR_Mokou.png) from CiLR shows that she looked pretty much exactly the same before she drunk the Elixir as she does now; the only thing that changed is that her hair now reaches her feet and turned white.

Why her hair changed at all is unknown. Maybe the Elixir has a weird effect on humans, considering it was made for a Lunarian and all.

On another note, who here wanna bet that Mokou will have a Kaguya pallete?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 13, 2015, 02:59:57 AM
Also note that the drawing of her (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:CiLR_Mokou.png) from CiLR shows that she looked pretty much exactly the same before she drunk the Elixir as she does now; the only thing that changed is that her hair now reaches her feet and turned white.
Huh, she was flat as a board there too. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on April 13, 2015, 03:16:39 AM
Huh, she was flat as a board there too. :V
Every drawing of her in official works show her as being flat chested.

Incidentally, the same applies to Kaguya.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 13, 2015, 03:45:02 AM
And almost every other Touhou character.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on April 13, 2015, 06:51:12 AM
Mokou needs to Resurrect herself in a fight is because her body cannot withstand her own fire.
I always thoughts the amulets on her outfit / hair was in order to protect her from that. Well not sure if she has those amulets as pasties on her body :V

Then there is also her spell card, possessed by the phoenix.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: AJS on April 13, 2015, 06:58:32 AM
I always thoughts the amulets on her outfit / hair was in order to protect her from that. Well not sure if she has those amulets as pasties on her body :V

Then there is also her spell card, possessed by the phoenix.
I was going to mention that actually.  That, and the fact that her title in Shoot the Bullet was "Human Immune to Death by Fire"--now that she can take damage from fire, I'm sure someone's gonna be a smartass and self-KO Mokou with her ability. :V

If I had to take a guess as to some sort of explanation, I'd say that maybe the amulets come with a catch--she can't catch fire, but perhaps she's still vulnerable to the heat from the fire itself.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 13, 2015, 07:17:50 AM
Those only protects her hair and trousers from accidentally catching fire. She can generally keep fire away from her shirt, and when she "resurrects", she's regenerating her heavily burnt arms. That's my current reading based on her new portrait.

Re: "Human Immune to Death by Fire"

That's technically not an inaccurate translation, although the word "immune" is too neutral and doesn't fit the derisive, smartass tone of StB titles. The original is 焼死しない人间, probably better translated as "Human Who Won't Die from Burning" or "Human Who Can't Be Killed by Fire" - she may burn, but she won't die.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on April 13, 2015, 08:46:44 AM
Some silly things came into my mind: You know that makes Mokou in my book even more awesome. Because her body will regenerate / resurrect, you cannot resurrect the clothing.

But what about her hair? Is she using those amulets to avoid her hair from burning? So she doesn't resurrects bald? :V :V :V ?

I'll ask more about this I guess over at Addict Section.

Edit:

That reminds me by the way. In Defence of the Shrines 1, Mokou's ultimate would set her on fire and get phoenix wings. When the ability ended, she would keep on burning losing lots of HP and you would eventually die. Unless you used her other skill to resurrect.

It seems the Chinese devs were quite aware of Mokou's abilities and backfire.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on April 13, 2015, 11:09:07 AM
I always wondered why she never used amulets on her shirt, though
If she routinely sets herself on fire she's certainly burn it away, regardless on how careful she is with her other attacks.
Maybe it's already made from fireproof materials.

And almost every other Touhou character.
There are enough exceptions for this not to be a rule.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 13, 2015, 12:35:17 PM
Takoyaki Neko, the sprite artist for Shinmyoumaru has spoken (https://twitter.com/takoyakinekosan/status/587586780393648128/photo/1) about his contribution on twitter. He was the main sprite artist for Futo in HM.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 13, 2015, 12:52:12 PM
Some silly things came into my mind: You know that makes Mokou in my book even more awesome. Because her body will regenerate / resurrect, you cannot resurrect the clothing.

But what about her hair? Is she using those amulets to avoid her hair from burning? So she doesn't resurrects bald? :V :V :V ?

I'll ask more about this I guess over at Addict Section.

That is probably why her hair is white :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 13, 2015, 02:38:14 PM
Well, people are speculating on this too, about Nue possibly being in the game (source is Touhoumemory's blog (http://blog.livedoor.jp/tohomemory/archives/43598904.html))
(http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tohomemory/imgs/c/9/c9ad10b0.jpg)
It's thought to be a hidden reference to Nue's Danmaku X spellcard from DS. (B-But...that's Pacman!)
Also, there's her other SCs, like
  • Unidentified "Purple Mirror"
  • Unidentified "Red Cloak, Blue Cloak"
  • Unidentified "Hanako-san in the Toilet"
Any of those ring a bell?

Either she's Nue in disguise(which is unlikely since Mamizou was listed with her name back in HM) or a separate character. Still, remember the "???" in the gamecode? Perhaps that is Nue fooling with our perception using her Seed of Non-Identification 

Unrelated, but I look forward to what this guy have in mind for the rest of ULiL's casts
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25793936

To add to that theory, there's also another spellcard Nue uses in TD. Unkown "Youkai Orb of Unknown Mechanics". Remind you of anything? Considering Nue called Mamizou in for help in TD, I'm guessing if she has any ties with the antagonist, she'll be the one to have brought her into Gensokyo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 13, 2015, 03:25:39 PM
A batch of new screenshots at the Melonbooks site.

https://www.melonbooks.co.jp/detail/detail.php?product_id=123901
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: hungrybookworm on April 13, 2015, 03:32:22 PM
A batch of new screenshots at the Melonbooks site.

https://www.melonbooks.co.jp/detail/detail.php?product_id=123901
So I guess the big question is, are team HM getting a story mode too?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 13, 2015, 03:34:30 PM
And the entire HM cast got their own urban legends to boot, awesome. Also from the look of the Mokou/Sukuna screenshot, the castle of shining needles will be a stage too?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: DX5536 on April 13, 2015, 03:38:52 PM
A batch of new screenshots at the Melonbooks site.

https://www.melonbooks.co.jp/detail/detail.php?product_id=123901
Wait wut? Mamizou in office lady suits and use tentacle ? Unzan turns into a woman? Mokou-tan being badass like always?
Need to buy this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 13, 2015, 03:44:23 PM
A batch of new screenshots at the Melonbooks site.

https://www.melonbooks.co.jp/detail/detail.php?product_id=123901

Wow, those have been there since day one? I didn't think of checking it.
So those are their occult skills, huh... I can guess some of them, but let's just wait. That left us with Byakuren, Miko and Nitori's then.
Kokoro's adorable, though
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 13, 2015, 03:44:51 PM
Futo's legend: Banchou no Sarayashiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banch%C5%8D_Sarayashiki)

Ichirin: either Slit-mouth woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuchisake-onna), an old one, or Hasshaku-sama (http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E5%85%AB%E5%B0%BA%E6%A7%98), a new legend originating from 2ch.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on April 13, 2015, 03:56:41 PM
Futo still seems to have at least some sort of "plate counter". I'm glad.

And hello Mami.
(http://puu.sh/hcrrQ/038abe973a.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 13, 2015, 04:26:03 PM
Larger screenshots at Toranoana, with a new one showing Kasen's dragon, Mokou's bamboo forest stage, and a spell card:
不死「凱風快晴飛翔蹴」
Deathless "Flying Kick of South Wind, Clear Sky"


http://www.toranoana.jp/mailorder/article/04/0030/29/82/040030298262.html
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on April 13, 2015, 04:43:14 PM
Larger screenshots at Toranoana, with a new one showing Kasen's dragon, Mokou's bamboo forest stage, and a spell card:
不死「凱風快晴飛翔蹴」
Deathless "Flying Kick of South Wind, Clear Sky"


http://www.toranoana.jp/mailorder/article/04/0030/29/82/040030298262.html

Looks like they updated Kasens sprites from the demo (added the rose-vine-pattern on her dress). I assume this is the death of 1-frame-tiger.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: -NightLunya- on April 13, 2015, 05:17:24 PM
Mhhh.... guys...

Always following codes found by Brliron, our project administrator from Touhou-Online and who made, with help from some MoTK members, the english translation patch of Touhou 13.5 - Hopeless Masquerade...

In the game files, next to "reimu", "marisa" and "kasen" name, we sometimes find "hanako". Also, the script file describing the scene before the "To be continue" at the end of the demo, where we see the shadow of the probably final boss, it loads a file called "hanako.csv". It's so probable that the final boss is a Hanako from toilets.
And more, it corresponds well to the story game, as it's about urban legends.
Also, there is a file with binary data which have:
"reimu........marisa........ichirin........miko........koishi........hijiri........kokoro........mamizou........nitori........futo........kasen........mokou........sinmyoumaru........hanako"
(Each point is a byte which corresponds to no caracters)... the characters found in the demo (mokou, sinmyoumaru) are confirmed in the complete version, so hanako seems probable if we follow the logic.

In resume, following the game files, Hanako-san SHOULD be the final boss, according to the demo, as Mokou and Shinmyoumaru have been confirmed.
We don't say it's CONFIRMED, but it should be Hanako-san.

Proof (from Brliron):
ftp://touhou-online.net/temp/extra/(null).2388.csv

In this file, there are the following lines:
Quote
#フェイス画像参照の定義
,LoadImageDef,"data/event/pic/reimu.csv"
,LoadImageDef,"data/event/pic/hanako.csv"

Source:
http://www.touhou-online.net/actualites/79-news/latest-news/313-touhou145-sortira-bientot
Original source:
http://www.touhou-online.net/actualites/79-news/latest-news/304-touhou145-demo-download
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 13, 2015, 05:36:39 PM
Ohh, so some stages are getting a night/foggy version, it's actually very cool.

Also did someone noticed Koishi's phone thingy above her head? I'm glad the HM cast returns, we will get a rich cast with them back (Plus I loved HM) I wonder though if they will get new themes/arranges, it would be cool to listen to a new Kokoro theme
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ToyoRai on April 13, 2015, 05:58:05 PM
Also did someone noticed Koishi's phone thingy above her head?

I also noticed it. Maybe its a reference to Mary-san? I don't have a good source, but I believe its a story about a doll who got discarded, but then kept on calling her owner about where she was, escalating her calling her owner behind them and then killing them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Prime32 on April 13, 2015, 06:43:40 PM
Wait wut? Mamizou in office lady suits and use tentacle ?
The tentacle thing looks like a stereotypical Japanese depiction of an alien. I dunno, maybe she's meant to be one of the Men in Black?

Ichirin: either Slit-mouth woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuchisake-onna), an old one, or Hasshaku-sama (http://dic.pixiv.net/a/%E5%85%AB%E5%B0%BA%E6%A7%98), a new legend originating from 2ch.
Slit-mouth woman is the first thing I thought of after looking at Kokoro's grin attack (http://img.toranoana.jp/popup_img/04/0030/29/82/040030298262-5p.jpg). (Well either that or "Why so serious?")
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on April 13, 2015, 07:22:11 PM
U-Unzan ?! I'll assume Unzan is still the manly stubborn old man but only become like this whenever Ichirin uses her occult spells, my brain can't process this...

So I guess the big question is, are team HM getting a story mode too?
Now that they have their own occult stuff too, it is very likely. If the story mode is going to be like in the demo, where you don't even get to select your own character, we might get an extravagant story mode for this one. I hope so anyway.

Also, Kokoro practicing her expressions is adorable
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Raikaria on April 13, 2015, 09:39:02 PM
U-Unzan ?! I'll assume Unzan is still the manly stubborn old man but only become like this whenever Ichirin uses her occult spells, my brain can't process this...


Unzan is a shapeshifter. His power is to change shape and size at will. He's probobly even better at disguise than Mamizou [Who always has her tail; even if she can shrink it].

Unzan being able to take a feminine form isn't honestly that unexpected. He might even do that when he's not fighting simply to blend in.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 13, 2015, 09:46:32 PM
"reimu........marisa........ichirin........miko........koishi........hijiri........kokoro........mamizou........nitori........futo........kasen........mokou........sinmyoumaru........hanako"

So, there will be only 3 new characters in the game?

Sounds pretty disappointing considering both SWR and Soku introduced a total of 5 new characters each.

SWR: Aya, Reisen, Komachi, Iku, Tenshi.
Soku: Sanae, Cirno, Meiling, Utsuho, Suwako.

IaMP also started with 10 characters just like HM. (Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Alice, Patchouli, Youmu, Remilia, Yuyuko, Yukari and Suika). So, I just assumed we'd get at least 5 new characters on ULiL, judging from the pattern of the previous fighters.

(Yeah, I know Meiling was added to IaMP through an expansion patch, but she didn't even had Story Mode there, so...)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 13, 2015, 09:55:55 PM
So, there will be only 3 new characters in the game?

Sounds pretty disappointing considering both SWR and Soku introduced a total of 5 new characters each.

SWR: Aya, Reisen, Komachi, Iku, Tenshi.
Soku: Sanae, Cirno, Meiling, Utsuho, Suwako.

IaMP also started with 10 characters just like HM. (Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Alice, Patchouli, Youmu, Remilia, Yuyuko, Yukari and Suika). So, I just assumed we'd get at least 5 new characters on ULiL, judging from the pattern of the previous fighters.

(Yeah, I know Meiling was added to IaMP through an expansion patch, but she didn't even had Story Mode there, so...)
I honestly doubt the leaked roster revealed ALL the characters. My best guess is that we'll at least get 1 more character added, or 2 if we're lucky.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 13, 2015, 09:58:23 PM
I honestly doubt the leaked roster revealed ALL the characters. My best guess is that we'll at least get 1 more character added, or 2 if we're lucky.

If I were to choose 2... Nue and Kaguya would already be really good.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on April 13, 2015, 10:00:02 PM
Sounds pretty disappointing considering both SWR and Soku introduced a total of 5 new characters each.

Kasen, Mokou, Shinny, Hanako. If it turns out Hanako isn't the final boss that's 5 right there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 13, 2015, 10:02:34 PM
So, there will be only 3 new characters in the game?

Four. Kasen, Mokou, Shinmyoumaru and Hanako. Four.

I really doubt we'll get another character, quite frankly. And even if we do, it's probably going to be another all-new 2hu, the final boss. I mean, why would they go through all the effort of hiding this fifth character if it's going to be another veteran?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 13, 2015, 10:03:48 PM
If Hanako isn't the final boss of the game, I'm honestly wondering who/what it could be. Aside from that, I'd honestly love to see Seija in if only to see her antics and how interesting her fight style would be. Plus since Sukuna's in, it'd be satisfying to see her even the score between them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 13, 2015, 10:07:14 PM
Four. Kasen, Mokou, Shinmyoumaru and Hanako. Four.

I really doubt we'll get another character, quite frankly. And even if we do, it's probably going to be another all-new 2hu, the final boss. I mean, why would they go through all the effort of hiding this fifth character if it's going to be another veteran?

Sorry, I had completely forgotten about Kasen. :V

Well... Tasofro did hide Mamizou from HM's page, and she was a veteran. That's because she was the Midboss.

So I'm assuming they're not hiding only the Final Boss, but ALSO the Midboss. Which could very well be Nue. I can't think of anyone more fitting than her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 13, 2015, 10:25:00 PM
Sorry, I had completely forgotten about Kasen. :V

Well... Tasofro did hide Mamizou from HM's page, and she was a veteran. That's because she was the Midboss.

So I'm assuming they're not hiding only the Final Boss, but ALSO the Midboss. Which could very well be Nue. I can't think of anyone more fitting than her.

Makes sense. I wasn't around at the time of HM, so I wasn't aware of the Mamizou thing. So I guess they would go to those lengths to protect a veteran, huh.

Heh, now I'm all excited. Maybe there will be someone else!

But why would it be Nue? Mamizou already has aliens as her Urban Legend.

I'm betting it's Seija. You can't ruse me, ZUN!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on April 13, 2015, 10:34:31 PM
The more I think about it, the more I believe there is another character. I mean, as it stands we have no clear "penultimate" boss. What I mean is Suika had Yukari, Tenshi had Iku, Kokoro had Mamizou. It would be anti-climactic for the penultimate to be someone from the HM cast and Kasen was in the demo. I guess Mokou or Sukuna could be it but neither seem like the type for that to me. It could be Hanako, but that means we'll have be getting another new character anyways.

Secretly just wants Seija in a fighter
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TheTeff007 on April 13, 2015, 11:22:16 PM
Has anyone else noticed the triangles behind the flames at the bottom? They weren't there at the demo.

Wait...

...the round occult balls...

... the square icons ...

... the X like pattern in the timer...

Nue confirmed guys!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 14, 2015, 12:46:34 AM
Well... Tasofro did hide Mamizou from HM's page, and she was a veteran. That's because she was the Midboss.
I think it's more the fact that after that full cast leak someone got from the demo's code, it only revealed 4 characters, as opposed to when HM's full cast also got leaked through HM's demo code (but went completely under the radar as none of use either believed it or even noticed), and it included Mamizou and Kokoro as part of the cast already.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 14, 2015, 03:58:51 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/7qxtzGX.jpg)
(Source: Japanese forums)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 14, 2015, 04:28:45 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/7qxtzGX.jpg)
(Source: Japanese forums)
So I guess that means no pacman?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 14, 2015, 05:11:19 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/7qxtzGX.jpg)
(Source: Japanese forums)

I'm not a big supporter of Nue being in because we already got all the data from the demo but this makes me feel like

(http://i.imgur.com/skojY4P.jpg)

No, but really, maybe at Tasofro they knew someone will see the code or something and omited Nue, it would be likely for her to be in as the midboss like Mamizou did. And it would be cool anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on April 14, 2015, 05:30:23 AM
 People keep saying about data from the demo but wasn't the facebook post claiming Hanako would be the final boss end up being a hoax?  I remember people saying they datamined the demo and found nothing the guy supposedly did.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: vnt.firefly on April 14, 2015, 06:16:43 AM
For fun.

(http://i.imgur.com/xQ3mvrY.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on April 14, 2015, 06:24:32 AM
People keep saying about data from the demo but wasn't the facebook post claiming Hanako would be the final boss end up being a hoax?  I remember people saying they datamined the demo and found nothing the guy supposedly did.

I haven't heard that, but I'll keep my fingers crossed. That said, it did get Mokou and Shinmyoumaru right.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 14, 2015, 10:54:15 AM
The character increase from 7.5 to 10.5 wasn't a big one, so I guess we shouldn't expect much from this one either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 14, 2015, 12:53:06 PM
People keep saying about data from the demo but wasn't the facebook post claiming Hanako would be the final boss end up being a hoax?  I remember people saying they datamined the demo and found nothing the guy supposedly did.
I have not heard of this whatsoever, and even then, if the leak was supposedly "fake", they must've been pretty damn lucky to guess both Mokou and Sukuna correctly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: sekibanki on April 14, 2015, 03:07:00 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/7qxtzGX.jpg)
(Source: Japanese forums)

Those are also Suika's chain thingy shapes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 14, 2015, 03:11:21 PM
Anyone notice the Kyubey Martian in Mamizou's screenshot?

XD
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on April 14, 2015, 11:42:12 PM
Those are also Suika's chain thingy shapes.
Oh, forgot Suika has those shapes in her chains...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on April 15, 2015, 02:32:48 AM
Well, there's a star there, which isn't part of the "Circle, Triangle, Square" (http://www.idemitsu.co.jp/museum/collection/introduction/sengai/sengai03.html).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 15, 2015, 05:13:37 AM
There is a five-pointed star in Kokoro's buttons, representing Anger. However, her buttons contain a X-cross (Sadness), instead of a square. Some poster has suggested cards used in ESP tests (such as Zener cards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zener_cards)). As for me, I don't think these geometries represent anything in particular.

BTW, I think of the symbology of Kokoro's buttons is easy to read if you notice how emotions are interpreted in HM:

Anger is a five-pointed star, because it's aggressive. Joy is a triangle, because it's stable, symbolizing contentment with life. Pleasure is a circle, because a life seeking nothing but pleasure is directionless, like a ball that can't stay in one place (going by the description of Koishi's hat). Sadness is a X-cross, because it makes one retreat into oneself rather than opening up.

EDIT:
Another thing, Chabu, the main sprite artist for Mamizou in HM, said (https://twitter.com/irresolution/status/587639577021513728) he did Mamizou and Futo's new animations in ULiL. "No matter how you look at it, that thing in Mamizou's screenshot looks (https://twitter.com/irresolution/status/587640794728628224) just like the Metal Slug guy, isn't it?"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Juno Arieiv on April 15, 2015, 08:18:07 AM
It most definitely does look like Mars People Mamizou is throwing out there.

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111103201526/metalslug/images/b/b3/Mars_people_(cafe).gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 15, 2015, 08:40:36 AM
Mamizou's screenshot looks (https://twitter.com/irresolution/status/587640794728628224) just like the Metal Slug guy, isn't it?"
It most definitely does look like Mars People Mamizou is throwing out there.

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111103201526/metalslug/images/b/b3/Mars_people_(cafe).gif)

That's actually how the Japanese typically picture Martians.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 16, 2015, 02:40:15 AM
There is a five-pointed star in Kokoro's buttons, representing Anger. However, her buttons contain a X-cross (Sadness), instead of a square. Some poster has suggested cards used in ESP tests (such as Zener cards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zener_cards)). As for me, I don't think these geometries represent anything in particular.

BTW, I think of the symbology of Kokoro's buttons is easy to read if you notice how emotions are interpreted in HM:

Anger is a five-pointed star, because it's aggressive. Joy is a triangle, because it's stable, symbolizing contentment with life. Pleasure is a circle, because a life seeking nothing but pleasure is directionless, like a ball that can't stay in one place (going by the description of Koishi's hat). Sadness is a X-cross, because it makes one retreat into oneself rather than opening up.

EDIT:
Another thing, Chabu, the main sprite artist for Mamizou in HM, said (https://twitter.com/irresolution/status/587639577021513728) he did Mamizou and Futo's new animations in ULiL. "No matter how you look at it, that thing in Mamizou's screenshot looks (https://twitter.com/irresolution/status/587640794728628224) just like the Metal Slug guy, isn't it?"

Oh, there was something like that? Nice analysis though regarding the reason behind Kokoro's designs.

About Mami, someone said to me that the suit references the Men in Black, that was itself an urban legend back then. That's the connection with the alien Martian.

Anyway, here's a few more things I have in mind about ULiL:

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 16, 2015, 05:43:04 AM
Things I find notable are: the show focuses on unique or unexplained phenomenons, uses the "xxxxx! yyyyy" form for titles, and they are written with big, yellow texts. Seems to be in line with how the visuals in ULiL seems to portray the style of old Japanese TV shows.
The "XXX! YYYYYYY" format used to be fairly common. I think ULiL is using them for a more generic "1980s shlock horror" ambience. For that matter, so does this TV show, which only started airing in 1997.

Quote
I've looked back on the HM roster leak post on FB (https://www2.facebook.com/letthewindsblow/posts/511272048893780?__mref=message), and just as I thought, Kokoro's name wasn't listed there. If it works the same, it's likely that the true last boss isn't listed in ULiL's too, which means that Hanako is probably the mid-boss, and there should be 2 new characters.
However, that doesn't explain this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1177074.html#msg1177074). Either it means that ULiL demo doesn't work the same like HM and there's only 1 new character, or the dark figure is the actual final boss, but she's not Hanako. Only that she's using Hanako's appearance(which loads her sprite data) and later become the reason we fight Hanako again. But then, why is she on the cover...ugh, I guess I'm overthinking this...
The HM leak was based on references to pause menu image files, which happens to refer to Kokoro as "boss".

On the other hand, the ULiL leak was based on references to script files of playable characters. The only thing aside from "hanako" and known characters is "neutral", which... sounds more like the name of a blank file. In addition, the silhouette character's file name is "hanako".
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on April 16, 2015, 06:04:43 AM
4. Some characters gimmick seems to be intact, like Futo's plate count(albeit modified) over her spellcard meter as mentioned before, and I noticed that Nitori also have a new green/blue meter, supposedly to show her water energy stock. The rest aren't as apparent, so who knows whether they still have it or not, because Reimu and Marisa lose theirs.[/li][/list]
There's one for Mokou too, I think : if you look at her health bar, you can see that there are white colored parts instead of the typically blue colored ones. It should be safe to presume that she'll use up her blue health bar for her skils, will regenerate up to the white health bar with her regeneration skill, and will only get KOed when the white bar is empty... maybe.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 16, 2015, 06:15:18 AM
Surprise, surprise. The JBOX website has the screenshots at a much more readable size.
http://www.jbox.com/product/TF031JP

My comments:
* Look at the seams between sprites on Kasen's dragon. They made it look that much more like a cardboard cutout.
* The artist who did the English name graphics simply copied ZUN's inconsistent spellings (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Characters/Spelling_discrepancies) from the main games. So Mamizou's surname is written as "Hutatsuiwa", same as in TD. A more proper spelling should be either "Futatsuiwa" (Hepburn format) or "Hutatuiwa" (Kunrei format); this is neither. Yet Futo is "Futo" not "Huto", again because that's how TD spelt it.
* Then there's "Hatano Kokoro". I don't think ZUN was responsible for that.



Apparently the game's main title is pronounced "Shinpiroku" rather than "Shinhiroku". For example, that's how the store March Rabbit's (http://www.3-get.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3358) English page wrote it. The word 深秘 "profound secrets; profound and esoteric", in addition to being a pun on 神秘 shinpi "mystery" here, is also a real word that can be pronounced either shinpi or shinhi, and shinpi seems more common. It's still a word you are unlikely to encounter unless you study Vajrayana Buddhism.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 16, 2015, 07:07:40 AM
There's one for Mokou too, I think : if you look at her health bar, you can see that there are white colored parts instead of the typically blue colored ones. It should be safe to presume that she'll use up her blue health bar for her skils, will regenerate up to the white health bar with her regeneration skill, and will only get KOed when the white bar is empty... maybe.
Indeed, that seems to be it. But I don't think that you'll need to deplete the white bar to make her go down, instead, I think it will function akin to the red health bar in Melty Blood. So the white bar is simply the maximum health Mokou can regenerate to at a certain time, and it will decrease as she keeps taking damage/chip damage. Depleting the normal blue health bar is enough to put her down.

At least, that's how I think it might work.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 16, 2015, 03:11:07 PM
Off-topic, but here's hoping that Touhou 15 is being made and will be announced later this month if there will be a demo this Reitaisai!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on April 16, 2015, 04:05:55 PM
Likewise, I highly hope for Touhou 15 and new Phantasmagoria, considering that we had another 5 main games since the last one and it's the 20th anniversary (PoFV was released on 10th).

If ZUN's going to announce it, there's not much time left though. If I'm not mistaken, the shortest period between announcement and demo at Reitaisai was 15 days (DDC). 23 days left until next Reitaisai as of now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: notext on April 16, 2015, 07:13:30 PM
I'm assuming that there'll be a 14.8 before there's a Touhou 15. I'm prepared to be wrong though!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: snowflake247 on April 16, 2015, 10:19:03 PM
I'm assuming that there'll be a 14.8 before there's a Touhou 15. I'm prepared to be wrong though!
I'm pretty sure there will be, if it follows the pattern of 12.3, 12.5, and 12.8, which are 12.25, 12.50, and 12.75 rounded to one decimal place. Back when ISC came out, some people spotted this pattern, and were speculating that 14.3 might be 14.33 instead of 14.25, so the next one would be 14.66, or (rounded) 14.7, leaving only 2 games between 14 and 15. Since ULiL is 14.5 instead of 14.7, though, this pretty much guarantees there being a 14.8. (I forget who originally spotted the rounded decimal pattern, sorry  :blush:)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on April 16, 2015, 10:58:07 PM
That's possible too, but this doesn't mean he *has* to follow this pattern to a tee and make a spin-off just for the sake of filling the last third of the numeral. Especially since GFW was previously hinted at. Not to mention another spin-off coming on the heels of ISC and ULiL would be disappointing for a 20th anniversary (then again, so would be getting only  ULiL). And I don't think there ever was a three-year gap between two main titles (UFO to TD was only 2 years), so I have big hope that the next week will bring us a new and glorious announcement.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 16, 2015, 11:07:59 PM
It's not like the order the games are released in matters too much. As far as I know, IaMP (7.5) was released later than IN (8 ) was.

EDIT: Darnit, that emoticon wasn't there before.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 17, 2015, 12:23:41 AM
It's not like the order the games are released in matters too much. As far as I know, IaMP (7.5) was released later than IN (8) was.
Doesn't the story of IaMP take place between that of PCB and IN?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 17, 2015, 01:17:02 AM
Doesn't the story of IaMP take place between that of PCB and IN?

Yup. What I'm saying is that ZUN could release Touhou 15 this year and then release 14.8 at some point afterwards if he wanted to. He did it once (again, 8 getting released before 7.5), so, if it came down to it, what's stopping him from just doing it again?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fastest Thing Alive on April 17, 2015, 08:38:10 AM
Maybe there'll be both 14.8 and 15. That's not out of the question or anything, is it?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on April 17, 2015, 01:33:51 PM
Maybe there'll be both 14.8 and 15. That's not out of the question or anything, is it?

The problem is everyone wants is a main game for the 20th anniversary. For that to happen, ZUN would need to release 14.5, 14.8, and 15 all in one year, or release 14.8 after 15. Both seem really unlikely.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on April 17, 2015, 02:36:24 PM
The problem is everyone wants is a main game for the 20th anniversary. For that to happen, ZUN would need to release 14.5, 14.8, and 15 all in one year, or release 14.8 after 15. Both seem really unlikely.

Which is a strange thing to want, because a non-main game like 14.8 could potentially be a much bigger and better fitting game for an anniversary than a main game. Mind, I have no idea what kind of game it would be or could be, but not being restricted to 6 or 7 stages would help already in making it more special.

14.8 could also potentially just be a smaller game like Fairy Wars and not even get a demo, with 15 getting a demo in summer and full release at winter comiket.

There is a lot of possibilities for what could happen, but I'm pretty sure we'll find out pretty soon as I doubt that ZUN won't have anything at all for Reitaisai.

Also, I thought it was announced that there would be more News for ULiL? Or is this happening at a weekly basis?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on April 17, 2015, 08:26:25 PM
Yea, for an anniversary, which is usually to celebrate the past of something (I feel, at least), I think it'd be more fitting if ZUN made a Touhou game with a ton of old Touhou characters rather than a new one where only Marisa, Reimu, and Sanae/Youmu/Sakuya return.  If ZUN was to do a Touhou like that which had like, 15+ different Touhou characters (a Phantasmagoria, for example.  Or a fighting game, but we're already getting THAT, obviously), a 14.8 would be the place to do it than a 15.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 23, 2015, 11:21:18 AM
The game has gone gold ("master up" in Japanese venacular). That is to say, the game development is done, and the master disc has been completed and is ready for mass production.

http://tasofro.net/diary/view/110
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plastic Vortex on April 23, 2015, 01:56:41 PM
I'm excited to see Moe Harukawa's rendition of Koishi. Also going to try to play as her, now that she doesn't have the gimmic going on. :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 23, 2015, 02:20:03 PM
I'm excited to see Moe Harukawa's rendition of Koishi. Also going to try to play as her, now that she doesn't have the gimmic going on. :D
I second this for both of the statements here. I'm actually very curious as to how she'll play now, especially since her B moves in HM were really good by themselves, so I can only imagine them nerfing those sort of moves a bit if you can use them on command now (especially the lightbulb range)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 25, 2015, 02:21:25 AM
According to twitter information, you can see an official trailer of the game at today's NicoNico Super Conference event.

The trailer features, among other things, Harukawa-drawn portraits of all returning characters, and what appears to be ZUN's Kasen theme.

It's safe to say we should expect to see the trailer this evening.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on April 25, 2015, 02:30:35 AM
finally, people might stop using rumble temple as a temporary kasen theme
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: farios on April 25, 2015, 03:38:38 AM
Some footage of the new characters (Mokou, Shinmyoumaru, Kasen) taken from Chou Nico Nico conference

http://blog.livedoor.jp/tohomemory/archives/43766670.html

And finally, Koishi new cutin
(http://i.imgur.com/hMeW0MX.png) (http://imgur.com/hMeW0MX)
thank you very much Harukawa-sensei

EDIT: Koishi footage
https://twitter.com/dosukoiland/status/591794889014120448/video/1
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 25, 2015, 03:56:08 AM
Ichirin (http://p.twipple.jp/jou3w)
Hijiri (https://twitter.com/sincos_minazuki/status/591811382917529600)
More pics for HM characters here (https://twitter.com/mr_orima)

Music arrangers:
Reimu: Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly by Comp (Buta Otome)
Marisa: Love-colored Master Spark by oiko
Ichirin: ShavaDava (Sound CYCLONE)
Hijiri: NYO (Silver Forest)
Futo: Tai no Kobone (Azure&Sands)
Miko: Taka (CROW'SCLAW)
Nitori:  Yuuyu
Koishi: Kishida (Kishida Kyoudan)
Mamizou: Futatsuiwa of Gensokyo by Shuzou (Sekken'ya)
Kokoro: Dobu Usagi (dBu music)
Mokou: ziki_7
Shinmyoumaru: Akiyama Uni

Kasen's theme:
華狭間のバトルフィールド, Composed by ZUN
"Battlefield of Hanahazama" (temporary translation)

華狭間, lit. "flowery interstitial space" (狭間 can also mean "ravine" and "arrow/gun slits in a fortification"), likely pronounced "hanahazama", is not an existent word. But most people's first reaction upon seeing the title would be the Battle of Okehazama, which was the battle that first established Oda Nobunaga's place as a great warlord.



Shinmyoumaru's spell cards:
釣符「可爱い太公望」
Fishing Sign "Adorable Taigong Wang"

小槌「伝说の椀飯振舞」
Mallet "Lavish Banquet of Legends"



Character titles:

Ichirin's title:
驚愕!長身の入道使い
Astonishing! The Tall Nyudou Handler

Hijiri's title:
極速!ライダー僧侶
Extreme Speed! The Rider Monk

Futo's title:
番町!皿を割る尸解仙
Banchou! The Plate-Breaking Shikaisen

Miko's title:
怪奇!二色マント魔人
Bizzare! The Fiend in Two-colored Mantle

Nitori's title:
太古!三畳紀の河童
From Time Immemorial! The Triassic Kappa

Koishi's title:
本怖!貴方の後ろにいるよ
True Horror! Right Behind You

Mamizou's title:
侵略せよ!宇宙妖怪狸
Invade! The Youkai Tanuki from Space

Kokoro's title:
戦慄せよ!悪夢の能面女
Shiver! The Noh Mask Woman of Nightmare
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 25, 2015, 04:20:57 AM
Mokou and Kasen's videos only have sound for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on April 25, 2015, 04:47:58 AM
Mokou and Kasen's videos only have sound for me.
Yep. Same here...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 25, 2015, 05:13:58 AM
Updated the post with twitter info.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 25, 2015, 05:34:53 AM
Yay, a new theme for the returning characters.

The ULiL's art is better than HM's art on many levels too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 25, 2015, 05:46:30 AM
Didn't see this soon enough this morning. What a great news.
Nice to see that we now know about the current character's titles, hinting a little more to their occult attacks.
Funny that I expected Miko to use the "Red mantle, Blue mantle"(it was almost so obvious), but didn't see that coming from Hijiri.
I speculated that it'll probably have to do with speed, but the first one that came to my mind was the "Jet Babaa(or Turbo Baa-chan (https://www.google.com/search?q=%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%9C%E3%81%B0%E3%81%82%E3%81%A1%E3%82%83%E3%82%93&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8))", which would be hilarious, but there's Skanda for that. And here we got the Headless Rider(probably). I certainly don't mind more of Kamen Rider White Lotus (http://seiga.nicovideo.jp/seiga/im3868991).
Koishi is likely Merry-san, and Kokoro is Kuchisake-onna after all. But what's that with Nitori? So it's dinosaur urban legend?

Anyway, things I note:

Not related to this update, but after seeing what we can for now, I really think Reimu has the worst occult attack.
Hideously slow startup and recovery, grazeable, not that damaging. The only chance I can see it's being used is probably after a wall slam(and has to be across the stage too so you have time to use it).
Marisa is decent if you got the piano, and Kasen's arguably the most useful and a core to most of her damaging combos.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 25, 2015, 05:52:45 AM
Jet Babaa is still very likely, and seems a better fit for Hijiri.

Koishi should be Satoru-kun (http://okaruto.tumblr.com/post/45836919176/satoru-kun).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plastic Vortex on April 25, 2015, 06:49:44 AM
Loving the art and the music so far!  :D

I'm guessing that the old spellcards and moves would be kept?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 25, 2015, 07:17:09 AM
Is there anywhere else to see the videos?  Two of them are not working properly for me...

And still bummed about most of the cast being old characters...  Most of them don't look like they fit into the story.  Let's hope Hanako and the final boss, assuming there is one and that Hanako isn't the final boss, are interesting enough to make up for it!  Hoping for an expansion pack like 12.3 in the future too!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 25, 2015, 07:42:14 AM
I use Google Chrome to watch and it works properly for me.

I would say ULiL looks like a remake of HM more than a sequel. Seeing how the game mechanics are better made and using old characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 25, 2015, 07:57:05 AM
The change between 7.5 and 10.5 isn't that drastic, so I guess they're copying the same formula here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 25, 2015, 10:09:49 AM
Updated the previous page's post again with some musician info.

My video upload (probably slow outside of China)
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1gd5uIun
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on April 25, 2015, 10:47:37 AM
I use Google Chrome to watch and it works properly for me.

I would say ULiL looks like a remake of HM more than a sequel. Seeing how the game mechanics are better made and using old characters.

Isn't it just to HM what SWR was to IaMP? It's even adding the same number of new characters, not counting the bosses. Reusing the sprites you've already made is just common sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 25, 2015, 10:50:12 AM
Updated the previous page's post again with some musician info.

My video upload (probably slow outside of China)
http://pan.baidu.com/s/1gd5uIun
Thanks!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 25, 2015, 10:54:06 AM
So, the Touhou all stars soundtrack lineup. How do you like it? According to ZUN in today's livestream, they invited other musicians because Akiyama Uni has run out of ideas after HM.

"Koishi fans will be shocked by her new portrait and heavy metal theme!" I heard people say.

Reimu: Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly by Comp (Buta Otome)
Marisa: Love-colored Master Spark by oiko
Ichirin: ShavaDava (Sound CYCLONE)
Hijiri: NYO (Silver Forest)
Futo: Tai no Kobone (Azure&Sands)
Miko: Taka (CROW'SCLAW)
Nitori:  Yuuyu
Koishi: Kishida (Kishida Kyoudan)
Mamizou: Futatsuiwa of Gensokyo by Shuzou (Sekken'ya)
Kokoro: Dobu Usagi (dBu music)
Mokou: ziki_7
Shinmyoumaru: Akiyama Uni
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: microfolk on April 25, 2015, 11:28:06 AM
So, the Touhou all stars soundtrack lineup. How do you like it? According to ZUN in today's livestream, they invited other musicians because Akiyama Uni has run out of ideas after HM.

"Koishi fans will be shocked by her new portrait and heavy metal theme!" I heard people say.

Reimu: Buta Otome
Marisa: ?
Ichirin: ShavaDava (Sound CYCLONE)
Hijiri: NYO (Silver Forest)
Futo: Tai no Kobone (Azure&Sands)
Miko: Taka (CROW'SCLAW)
Nitori:  Yuuyu
Koishi: Kishida (Kishida Kyoudan)
Mamizou: Shuzou (Sekken'ya)
Kokoro: Dobu Usagi (dBu music)
Mokou: ziki_7
Shinmyoumaru: Akiyama Uni

I'm crying tears of joy since ziki_7 is going to arrange Mokou's theme. And there is also Sasara. AND TAINOKOBONE
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 25, 2015, 11:58:23 AM
I'm crying tears of joy since ziki_7 is going to arrange Mokou's theme.
Did a quick search on the guy. I'm not really sure if techno's gonna work with Mokou, but since my search wasn't that comprehensive, can you give me an example of their work which makes them a good choice for Mokou?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 25, 2015, 12:00:41 PM
Whoa, that's a who's who of names there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on April 25, 2015, 12:15:27 PM
Butaotome? Yes please!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: farios on April 25, 2015, 12:29:20 PM
Footage of HM PV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m0ubTz3yQ4
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on April 25, 2015, 12:46:42 PM
Even all the stages came back...

I don't actually have anything against all characters and such coming back, but if they were all to be brought back, it's best to have a large amount of new contents to make things feel new.

Oh well, it's the gameplay that matters, right?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 25, 2015, 01:31:44 PM
Footage of HM PV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m0ubTz3yQ4
Thank you very much for showing it to us.

*sees Byakuren using Indra and Garuda in succession*
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!!!

Actually, looking closer now, Byakuren does have chanting/charges, but modified.
This time it seems to function like a stock charges for all moves, not independent like in HM. Meaning she can use different skills as long as she has enough stock, which take the form of floating orbs. From the second one, with the 2 glowing orbs around her, she can use two skills in a row. And it seems like she can store quite a lot. Judging by the angles, she can have as much as 5. So 1 for every move, or some costs 2 or more. Anyway, this expands her potential by a lot, since she can also cancel those skills into each other. It's like Order Sol.
The losses is probably no more buffs, but I still think this is great.

She still retain her flash step dash, so that's good. What's even better is that when she dash through her opponent, she automatically turns, facing towards the enemy for an attack. This will make her even more agile and a nice move to land a combo. Now to see her "Rider" occult skill. Looking forward to what it can bring into her arsenal.
One thing though, I still don't understand what the beads move does in the first part. It doesn't seem to be her [6]A, so maybe not an attack. Chanting? But she doesn't gain any charges either, and the old chanting move is still there. Wonder what it does?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plastic Vortex on April 25, 2015, 01:36:09 PM
My comments on the music (shown in the PV, in order):
Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly is my favorite Reimu theme. Buta-Otome did the right thing. ;v;
Not too sure about what I feel about Jazzy Love Coloured Master Spark.
Traditional Old Man and the Stylish Girl would sound great at a cafe.
Ooh speedy arrange of Emotional Skyscraper.
I can't hear Legend of the Great Gods at all.  :ohdear:
I honestly prefer the True Administrator in HM. It'll probably grow on me later.  :V
Nitori's theme is pretty cool.
Heavy Metal Koishi. That is all.  :getdown:
Would have preferred a Futatsuiwa from Gensokyo arrange but this is fine too.
This sounds like the first Lost Emotion arrange from Youtube. I approve.  BV
That flute though.
I like this arrange of Little Princess very much. Can't describe why.
ZUNpet galore.



Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 25, 2015, 01:52:36 PM
Footage of HM PV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m0ubTz3yQ4

It seems that old characters retained most of their old mechanics. Kinda curious to see how that'll work without something to notify them, especially with characters like Koishi.

But hey, looks like Koishi's lightbulb is back <3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: microfolk on April 25, 2015, 01:59:44 PM
Did a quick search on the guy. I'm not really sure if techno's gonna work with Mokou, but since my search wasn't that comprehensive, can you give me an example of their work which makes them a good choice for Mokou?

It's not that I think ziki_7 is the perfect fit for Mokou, it's the fact I love their works and I can only be happy to having them arranges one of my favourite theme for one of my favourite characters. : P And from what little we can listen to in the video I've already fallen in love with the flute heh.

But really if you're interested I'd reccomend this track (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZBH5EO-1Lg) or this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPCgJJY1r1Q) or this (which is actually one of my favourite arrangements ever) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCtmwhLMFXM). I don't even like their techno stuff that much but as you can listen their works are varied and in my opinion absolutely stunning. I'm just happy they've got a chance to work in an official touhou game!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: BATMANDANCEPARTY on April 25, 2015, 02:15:54 PM
You chose a fantastic track to be your top fave micro, that one probably is the best by ziki (in my opinion)

In other news, according to the PV it looks like Reimu has a new attack and Nitoris Kappa Wave is instant gratification.
Though I'm extremely curious as to why Nitori's title is what it is.... her LW better have some kind of robo-tyrannosaurus rex mauling the opponent if she's truly going full-on-Triassic 

Either way I can't wait to get into her grove once the game comes
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 25, 2015, 02:32:46 PM
I'm seriously in love with how jazzy Nitori and Futo's themes sound, as well as how badass Kokoro's theme will be. God, top the character themes off with how we're getting stage themes and pre-battle themes, this soundtrack will be AMAZING. Also REALLY happy they decided to let doujin-artists compose music tracks for the game, I was worried at first that they'd just recycle the HM character's themes back in ULiL.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Mach131 on April 25, 2015, 02:40:21 PM
Miko's new mechanic looks cool, it's like she can choose what color to make her cape whenever she grabs the opponent (with her occult special?). I wonder what the benefit of the blue cape will be, though.
Also, I noticed that in each character's combo portion of the trailer the occult ball timer was frozen. It's probably just practice mode, but it would stil be nice if there was an option to do that in normal matches...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 25, 2015, 03:00:52 PM
Would have preferred a Futatsuiwa from Gensokyo arrange but this is fine too.
It is in fact a Futatsuiwa from Gensokyo arrange.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 25, 2015, 03:38:09 PM
The change between 7.5 and 10.5 isn't that drastic

Pffft. Please refrain from commenting on things you don't quite understand. These two games had like only 3 or 4 things in common with each other, they're like games made by different companies.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 25, 2015, 03:53:30 PM
Pffft. Please refrain from commenting on things you don't quite understand. These two games had like only 3 or 4 things in common with each other, they're like games made by different companies.
yeah, IaMP and SWR have almost nothing in common other than reusing the same sprites. Statements to the contrary are totally off the wall; None of the meters are the same, movement is handled differently, the entire cancel system is wrong, the method of handling supers is different, the balancing of startup/attack/recovery was different and skewed towards higher risk on uncanceled moves, weather of course, etc etc. It is very much similar to the transition from Soku to HM, for those who played IaMP regularly.

The changes made here are far less drastic than they were there. Overall looking like positive changes but wtf why occult balls ugh.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 25, 2015, 04:13:32 PM
tbh the change from 13.5 - 14.5 is pretty drastic change in my eyes.
It's almost 7.5 - 10.5 level of difference, there's close to zero things kept other than sprites. (supers, meter, movement, pressure, etc)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on April 25, 2015, 04:13:48 PM
Pffft. Please refrain from commenting on things you don't quite understand. These two games had like only 3 or 4 things in common with each other, they're like games made by different companies.

Maybe they meant 10.5 to 12.3.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 25, 2015, 05:43:09 PM
The changes made here are far less drastic than they were there. Overall looking like positive changes but wtf why occult balls ugh.

Occult balls is seriously the only thing I'm not looking forward to. It's way too unhealthy for competitive play especially since it seems to be random, and smash ball chasing is not fun.

Maybe they meant 10.5 to 12.3.
Not at all, 10.5 to 12.3 was basically just an expansion, most of the stuff was relatively intact, just with more moves/SCs and characters/stages. ULiL's mechanics are completely different from HM, the only thing it retained really was that it's still airborne and the sprites, but movement and everything is drastically different.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on April 25, 2015, 05:53:15 PM
Occult balls is seriously the only thing I'm not looking forward to. It's way too unhealthy for competitive play especially since it seems to be random, and smash ball chasing is not fun.

It seems to be a mechanic intended to break up defensive play. That being said, it's not like touhou games aren't unfamiliar with unhealthy mechanics (IaMP's projectile favortism, SWR's weather and card system, HM's...well, a lot of things.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 25, 2015, 06:08:32 PM
(IaMP's projectile favortism, SWR's weather and card system, HM's...well, a lot of things.)

IaMP was fine, SWR/Soku had a couple weather that was dumb but it had a cycle so it wasn't random at least, but the deck system was still RNG so that was completely unhealthy. HM was also fine from a competitive standpoint, it's actually almost as healthy as IaMP. Popularity wasn't random at least, it just wasn't completely perfect in terms of how popularity gain and loss was handled. It's problem was the floaty movement that turned off a lot of players who are too used to ground-based fighters.

ULiL might fall into the SWR/Soku category in the end, minus the RNG deck system (thank god).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: KrackoCloud on April 25, 2015, 06:23:49 PM
I wasn't really hyped for ULIL until I saw all these screenshots and videos. The music sounds really good so far!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on April 25, 2015, 07:24:29 PM
Okay, so we're basically getting 4 characters, keeping the mechanism from the demo more or less intact, and have music made by other circles ? I like it.

I still have some reservations about the occult orbs thing, I hope it'll somehow be possible to turn it off in one way or another in the game and get them by, dunno, beating the hell out off the other person... I hope...

Also :
Futo: Tai no Kobone (Azure&Sands)

Azure&Sands

Azure&Sands
Th-THEY... ARE... ALIVE ! Pretty sure they are not well known, but it's one of my favorite touhou circle  :] Working with others circles was a pretty damn great idea. Now if ZUN'll make the next game with a new circle...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 25, 2015, 07:45:17 PM
I'm glad that everyone is happy about ULiL right now! ...Err, at least, happier than before. ;w; (also! I apologize if I do something wrong post-wise. Please let me know if I am; i'm really new here.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 25, 2015, 07:59:20 PM
ULiL might fall into the SWR/Soku category in the end, minus the RNG deck system (thank god).

Deck system can be outdone with smart deck design/cycling and weather almost never really bothers anyone who notices it.
Now I hope they don't keep the completely random occult events, would be really nice.

Please refrain from calling it "Competitively Unhealthy", RNG in a game should be competitively unhealthy when RNG causes skill difference to matter less, which is not the case. (it certainly is not perfect but it's not bad either)
I'd even go so far as to say wrongblocks/reads/mixups are quite similar to RNG. And then there's this thing about we have no clue what the opponent's skills/spells setup in HM is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Jana on April 25, 2015, 08:03:47 PM
But really if you're interested I'd reccomend this track (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZBH5EO-1Lg) or this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPCgJJY1r1Q) or this (which is actually one of my favourite arrangements ever) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCtmwhLMFXM). I don't even like their techno stuff that much but as you can listen their works are varied and in my opinion absolutely stunning. I'm just happy they've got a chance to work in an official touhou game!

I'm personally a fan of this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9nX59uGR94).

I didn't play the full release of the last fighter, but I might give this one a shot. The flying movement is a bit much to get used to but I guess that's supposed to be the point of making a Touhou fighter now, instead of one where they're ground-based.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: LunaWillow on April 25, 2015, 08:36:01 PM
I'm personaly going to wait with listening themes until I'll get the game. Altough heavy metal Hartmann's Youkai Girl sounds cool!

Anyway, I did a quick doodle of Koishi as Satoru-kun. (http://pre06.deviantart.net/ec42/th/pre/i/2015/115/5/d/right_behind_you____by_luna_willow27-d8r0you.jpg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 25, 2015, 08:46:17 PM
I'm personaly going to wait with listening themes until I'll get the game. Altough heavy metal Hartmann's Youkai Girl sounds cool!

Anyway, I did a quick doodle of Koishi as Satoru-kun. (http://pre06.deviantart.net/ec42/th/pre/i/2015/115/5/d/right_behind_you____by_luna_willow27-d8r0you.jpg)

I really like your art! I think the Satoru-kun legend fits Koishi perfectly. I hope that's what they did for her, to be honest... ;w;"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 25, 2015, 09:21:06 PM
Deck system can be outdone with smart deck design/cycling and weather almost never really bothers anyone who notices it.
Now I hope they don't keep the completely random occult events, would be really nice.

Please refrain from calling it "Competitively Unhealthy", RNG in a game should be competitively unhealthy when RNG causes skill difference to matter less, which is not the case. (it certainly is not perfect but it's not bad either)
I'd even go so far as to say wrongblocks/reads/mixups are quite similar to RNG. And then there's this thing about we have no clue what the opponent's skills/spells setup in HM is.
Deck system's problem is it accomplished exactly the same basic things as a groove system. The results were the same as any other game with alternate versions of the same char: Strong chars choose things to strengthen their game, middling chars choose things to cover up their weaknesses, weak chars choose whatever because it doesn't actually matter. To me, the deck system is absolutely superfluous and does little to affect matchup balance. I don't believe in 'personal playstyle' here, because everyone has their own quirks, but if you're serious about being competitive in anything you play the game that is, not the game you want to play.

The card draws being random was cute but, honestly, all it did was distract from fighting the opponent, so you could not focus on what it was you wanted to do unless the game wanted to let you at that junction. Weather was more controllable and less of an issue, but honestly it only mattered when one player wanted a weather and the other didn't, and the cycle showed that it was possible to get it. Most notably it was Typhoon that affected matches. For such an integral system it really just didn't add a whole lot to the game other than more things to memorize, on the whole, and could have been done in a more consistent fashion without sacrificing anything.

RNG is a thing that's perfectly fine in competitive games if they are done at the user's request; that is, if a player wants to gamble on a chance, let them. Environmental or systematic randomness simply downplays the player's choices in favor of the game's own, and that is something a lot of more serious players will object to. I'm honestly really disappointed that Tasofro still happens to think this is the way to make matches more interesting, what with the Mystery Spot effects, because I pretty much resolutely feel it simply says the game thinks that the players are not interesting enough on their own. I totally think that sort of randomness is fine for a single player game, to keep the player on his toes, which is why I play a billion roguelikes. Just doesn't fit with a versus game, to me.

Wrongblocks/reads are not RNG, because humans are never truly random. They are unpredictable, of which there is a huge difference in how you approach them. Nobody lacks patterns, not the strongest players, nor the weakest. It isn't uncommon to watch heavy swings in match momentum be dictated entirely by carefully watching for them and how the strategies shift into each other with time. There's a huge skill wall around the middle levels of ability where people can't break forward because they can't recognize or realize this; where players who are not necessarily more technically proficient move further along because they simply make more of the right choices at the right times.

Hidden information is a tricky subject with fighting games since for so long we've gotten used to our true hidden information being our input buffer, whereas more games are experimenting with that now as simpler inputs are taking hold, allowing more free usage of specials at any given juncture.

IaMP grognard here will tell you the real problem with SWR/Soku, from day one, wasn't the random stuff but its godawful cancel system making footsies extremely constrained. All these movement options and you have fewer practical ones at any given juncture than you did in IaMP, sucked. More to learn in terms of what everything does and how to react to it, less to actually do in terms of meaningful tactical options and player expressiveness. My impression of the newer Astra-style games is that they still disallow fast movement cancels but the recovery times are much shorter, which generally makes it not quite as risky to throw something out carelessly as it was in Soku. So, potential is there, at the very least.

Do think it's kinda funny that each game has fewer projectiles than the last, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 25, 2015, 09:45:18 PM
Wooow, Miko's theme... got more rad. In HM it was majestic and serene but now it's RAD like her. I also like Reimu's theme a lot, Koishi's one is fitting for her too... somehow and OH GOD, Byakuren's theme! Seriously, I'm not a big fan of her theme but damn, that was awesome, I overall like the music from ULiL more than HM because it sounds less "lazy", it's actually good to see we have a lot of invited artists.

From the looks of it, most character gimmicks are returning but are not that evident, I really wonder what Miko's one does, it looks like she can change her cape colors and if you look closely during Kokoro's teaser you can see she changes the color of her skirt to melancholy, I don't know what to think because gimmicks give characters their own uniqueness but I really wanted to see how everyone would play without relying on them.

Finally, well the release date is getting closer, I wonder if we will actually get 2 more characters including the silhouette girl, from the looks of it ULiL will look really good, it's like good ol' SWR which in my opinion is one of the best fighters, we got a dense cast, A COMPLEX WELL ELABORATED STORY MODE and some cool looking spell cards. I'm not that much into the competitive scene but I can say I never liked the deck system in SWR, weather wasn't that annoying but I think the occult balls stuff will be an issue here, it might be too centralizing to get them because they are the only way to execute a last word.

Oh man, I am so excited, MIKO LOOKS SO FABULOUS with her and Mokou in, I am more than happy
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on April 25, 2015, 10:43:47 PM
So far it looks like the game will be great! However i will speak for myself about the controls... for air based fighters i got used to HM control scheme, and while the move customization is no longer present, everyone's moveset is larger but i have a lot of problems controling characters in the demo. But it's probably temporary since i thought the controls in HM were bad but i got used to them. I am going to have fun with Mokou and Shinmyoumaru ( hopefully Kaguya will also get in ). Speaking of the Lunatic Princess of the Moon, if she doesn't appear in ULIL she might appear in the next air based fighter, since she and Mokou were planned for UNL ( as well as i think Nitori ) so in HM Nitori was added, ULIL Mokou so if she doesn't appear as well with Mokou then she might appear in the next one ( it would be such a missed opportunity not to have these 2 immortal achnemesis duke it out ). Also the new character  Hanako i think will be a subordinate of the final boss or a penultime boss and the final boss will be a Youkai of Urban Legends and i think get's a lot of inspiration from Aka Manto, the cape, the cards ( red papper, blue papper ) and it would make sense for Aka Manto and Hanako to know each other since they are both related to school and public bathrooms.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 25, 2015, 10:58:11 PM
I have to say at this point I'm at a loss for who the culprit might be now, I thought it would be the Aka Manto but now that spot's been taken up by Miko.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 25, 2015, 11:45:12 PM
RNG is a thing that's perfectly fine in competitive games if they are done at the user's request; that is, if a player wants to gamble on a chance, let them. Environmental or systematic randomness simply downplays the player's choices in favor of the game's own, and that is something a lot of more serious players will object to. I'm honestly really disappointed that Tasofro still happens to think this is the way to make matches more interesting, what with the Mystery Spot effects, because I pretty much resolutely feel it simply says the game thinks that the players are not interesting enough on their own. I totally think that sort of randomness is fine for a single player game, to keep the player on his toes, which is why I play a billion roguelikes. Just doesn't fit with a versus game, to me.

Yeah RNG Is fine if it's something like, say, a single character mechanic and not a major game mechanic. That way players can choose to risk RNG or not (ie. Phoenix Wright in UMvC3). But that bolded text is one of the reasons why I can't accept it in Soku. Mauve explained it better than me. That's why it's unhealthy and why HM is, from a systematic standpoint, is much healthier for competitive play that SWR/Soku.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 25, 2015, 11:58:15 PM
If there's an option to turn off the random effects - even if it's only in versus mode - this game would be perfect. I agree that systematic randomness takes a lot of the competitiveness out of a fighter, and to be honest an option like that should be fairly trivial to implement.

If the initial release doesn't have such an option I seriously hope there will be a patch that adds it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 26, 2015, 12:33:16 AM
Personally think the random stuff in SWR/Soku is a not that big a deal at best, but okay. It's obnoxious and could just as easily be done with non-randomized systems, but it doesn't really cripple the game, it's just kinda dumb/pandering. Definitely don't agree with people who just want to mod them out of the game, because they are still integral systems and important to the overall design of the match flow(weather, for example, is manipulated in the same way you get point items for bombs in IaMP). Meters are pacing mechanics, they exist for a very specific reason.

Either way, if it's multiplayer, and you want to play seriously/be taken seriously, you play the game you are given from what authority is respected by the playing community, most often the original developer. If the Western community decides it wants to play a different version than the one everyone else is playing would be a great way to never be taken seriously by those playing Standard Version, and if you're okay with that go ahead.

HM's problem is mostly that it had a really bad start, seriously the early versions play completely awful and are boring in every way. For awhile every other week they'd release a patch heavily retooling one system or another, but nobody really wanted to go back to it after either being turned off initially or after the umpteenth game-overhauling patch that made them relearn their stuff. It did get better, overall, but I think they were wise to just clean the slate and do them all at once instead of continuing to iterate in public. Definitely a side effect of them releasing the game way before it was actually ready.

edit: There is also a sneaking suspicion I have that the removal of deck systems is Tasofro's way of saying that they want to take it to the arcades. We'll see.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plastic Vortex on April 26, 2015, 12:51:24 AM
Hmm, I just realized something.

Why is it that in the PV, while Kasen is fighting Mokou, the background changes to the Lunar Capital (月の都) once the timer counts down to 0. Maybe its just Mokou's relation to the moon (Kaguya etc.) or perhaps it's a new character stage?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TheTeff007 on April 26, 2015, 12:57:45 AM
Hmm, I just realized something.

Why is it that in the PV, while Kasen is fighting Mokou, the background changes to the Lunar Capital (月の都) once the timer counts down to 0. Maybe its just Mokou's relation to the moon (Kaguya etc.) or perhaps it's a new character stage?

That's one of the Mystery Spots activated by the Occult Ball... I cannot recall it's effect while on stage, though
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 26, 2015, 01:28:27 AM
Definitely don't agree with people who just want to mod them out of the game, because they are still integral systems and important to the overall design of the match flow...
I'm not saying that other people should mod the game. I'm just saying that it would be a bonus if Tasofro themselves put something like that in, since I think it'll make the game more attractive to certain groups of players. Honestly I'm fine with what the game has now, but there are people who probably disagree with me on that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on April 26, 2015, 03:06:37 AM
I play fightings mainly in story modes, and for story mode occult balls are very nice, on the level of UFOs nice. And I think the same goes for most players, doesn't it?

And music is good)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 26, 2015, 03:50:33 AM
@mauve
I agree with you.
I am fully aware that SWR/Soku isn't the perfect game or anything, and how it turned off a portion of IaMP players. I am mainly slightly upset at the word "Competitively Unhealthy" (which is not yours). The skill ceiling of the game is not similar to standard fighters, but it's still there. "Competitively Unhealthy" is not supposed to be an acceptable word.
I agree with your arguments, and I fully appreciate your post. Thank you.

@GPop
I can't seem to agree with yours. Sorry, to me a slight not-really-gamebreaking RNG that can be outdone does not equal to competitive unhealthiness or anything. But I guess I shouldn't derail this thread anymore just because I am slightly upset for having the game I play being called out.  :) Thank you for your arguments.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 26, 2015, 04:03:43 AM
Apparently the arranger of Marisa's "Love-colored Master Spark" is oiko, who like ziki_7, is a collaborator with Tasofro.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 26, 2015, 04:54:47 AM
Yeah don't mind me, I tend to get a bit rambly when it comes to matters of fighting game design and theory haha.

Honestly I think I'd be a lot more interested in this game if not for the Mystery Spot thing, moreso than I got for their last few games, but we'll see how it ends up being in the final version. (if there's no actual free web demo I'm so not bothering though.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 26, 2015, 04:58:30 AM
I play fightings mainly in story modes, and for story mode occult balls are very nice, on the level of UFOs nice. And I think the same goes for most players, doesn't it?

And music is good)

I forgot about their role in story mode, which sounds interesting, I wonder what kind of story mode we will get, I'm hoping we could get one like SWR but if there is more to it, like investigating a character you choose, well that would be really cool.

I don't like when fighter games discussions get too technical, sure it's about the game but at this moment everything is speculation, specially about the gameplay I think we should be all happy because ULiL in the end turned out better of what we expected.

Let's focus on important matters like, anyone actually heard Legend of the Great Gods in Futo's arrangement?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 26, 2015, 05:13:15 AM
if there's no actual free web demo I'm so not bothering though.
I'm guessing the free web demo will come out after Reitaisai.

I agree that their long-term goal might be getting an official arcade version out. ZUN did say it'd be a good thing if Touhou can attract more people to the arcades. That surely beats making a Touhou anime, both in probability and potential benefits.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 26, 2015, 05:33:59 AM
I play fightings mainly in story modes, and for story mode occult balls are very nice, on the level of UFOs nice. And I think the same goes for most players, doesn't it?
According to the results of 2009's annual Touhou poll in Japan (http://thwiki.info/th/vote6/result_anq.html), section 5, of the people who had responded having owned SWR, 35.88% responded as having never played multiplayer, 24.02% responded as having never played multiplayer online. So the majority are in it for single player or playing with friends only, or can't stand online play, and that's fine.

These sorts of things are just not what I'm looking for in these games, you know? Just means I should look somewhere else, really, because Tasofro clearly likes this direction and a lot of Touhou fans do as well.

I remember UFOs being kind of a divisive mechanic too, despite basically just being Psikyo powerups in a ZUN game.

I'm guessing the free web demo will come out after Reitaisai.

I agree that their long-term goal might be getting an official arcade version out. ZUN did say it'd be a good thing if Touhou can attract more people to the arcades. That surely beats making a Touhou anime, both in probability and potential benefits.
Touhou anime is so far off from the direction ZUN's been leaning the past few years. Surrounding himself with more and more indie game people? Showing more interest in the West? Yeah, he's becoming enamored with "Indie" gaming as a thing, and I can't say I'm either surprised or blame him.

Interesting times are afoot but I can't help but feel like he's missed the window of opportunity by a few years, and dragging his feet on getting it out here isn't helping.

edit: ah, finally hit that magical 10 post count that lets me be a normal human being. would have had it years ago if my account hadn't been purged (for the second time!!!) along with all the other sub-10-post accounts. this is a very silly way of authing people
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on April 26, 2015, 08:21:56 AM
Given that Kasen is here and Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom (probably) has something with the moon, maybe it is time i should binge-read the touhou mangas. Is there a recommended order? I guess that, chronologically, the moon sage is the first, but what about FS and WaHW?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 26, 2015, 08:49:05 AM
WaHH for 15~ chapters, then it goes alongside FS.
If you're going to read SSiB, then you may as well  try CiLR.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 26, 2015, 10:06:20 AM
Yeah don't mind me, I tend to get a bit rambly when it comes to matters of fighting game design and theory haha.

Honestly I think I'd be a lot more interested in this game if not for the Mystery Spot thing, moreso than I got for their last few games, but we'll see how it ends up being in the final version. (if there's no actual free web demo I'm so not bothering though.)

Heheh I can get pretty rambly too when it concerns several games.

I can tell the mystery spot is being a huge turn off there, I wish they'd make it somewhat controllable as in SWR. And unfortunately I'm in doubt whether they'll be releasing another demo but yeah we'll see.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on April 26, 2015, 10:26:08 AM
While I too am feeling iffy on the occult balls mechanic, which really concerns me is how 1-dimensional defense is in ULIL.  Without throws or high-low, holding back beats everything.  It makes me think approaches will devolve into safe moves that lead to block strings that break guard most of the time (or the scrubby counter-hit fishing wonderland that will likely dominate for a few months).  While I didn't like the system at all, it did seem like Popularity countered turtling pretty hard.  I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Monothemeerp on April 26, 2015, 01:39:11 PM
While I too am feeling iffy on the occult balls mechanic, which really concerns me is how 1-dimensional defense is in ULIL.  Without throws or high-low, holding back beats everything.  It makes me think approaches will devolve into safe moves that lead to block strings that break guard most of the time (or the scrubby counter-hit fishing wonderland that will likely dominate for a few months).  While I didn't like the system at all, it did seem like Popularity countered turtling pretty hard.  I guess we'll see.

I'm kinda iffy on that aspect too, honestly. The Occult Balls are obviously there to work against defensive play but I dunno... it seems weird to me.

I also hope that you can turn the timer off. I'm not a big fan of winning by timeout etc., feels kinda boring. I'm not against it because it is a legit way to win, just really dry.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 26, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
The mixup lies in bullet-melee. Pressure and crushes seem to be quite strong in comparison to HM and probably soku as well, so I doubt we'll see a lot of turtling here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 26, 2015, 04:50:31 PM
TBH people worry too much about the mixup game too much. What matters is how hard it is to get into that situation; if you can avoid the mixups all day _and_ they're not very strong, that's a problem. Most anime games are hard to get pinned down but you get stuck into RPS shenanigans once you finally get there, so I can see why players focus on it, but there's also the opposite situation where if you're forced to be aggressive to avoid getting into that situation, the mixup game doesn't have to be particularly deep or interesting, because they already lost midscreen.

Win by timeout is a pressuring thing, to prevent you from just waiting all day for the 'right time' to do something. In SWR/Soku/IaMP, meter build was such that if you sat around doing nothing, your opponent would be the one gaining all the meter (in Soku, by whiffing. In IaMP, by patiently grazing forever.) and that would backfire on you pretty hard. Seriously, as a Reimu player I had to give up being defensive solely because I kept having matches that went very well up right until I ran into 7~9 stocks of Sakuya's World. That ain't winnable! Timeout's just codifying that sort of thing and letting them give you a different reason to get moving. Not necessarily better, but it's there.

Also if they're targeting arcades they need one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: AJS on April 26, 2015, 06:19:38 PM
I also hope that you can turn the timer off. I'm not a big fan of winning by timeout etc., feels kinda boring. I'm not against it because it is a legit way to win, just really dry.
I feel the same way, and I always wished you could shut off the timer in HM.  But here, the Occult Balls actually solve that issue since each appearance of one freezes the timer while it's active.  In a way, it somewhat prolongs the match.  I can't remember ever winning or losing a match in the demo via time-out.  They also would seem to discourage defensive play since a more aggressive opponent will be able to get the balls more easily, and thus pepper you with stronger and stronger occult attacks.

The one thing I'm concerned about is FPS.  I doubt I'm alone on this, but in the demo the occult field effects would cause massive slowdown.  I seem to recall Tasofro fixed some of the FPS issues plaguing HM in the demo before the final release, but the lag caused by occult balls was rather pronounced.  I seriously hope they do something about that, or my enjoyment of the game will be a lot lower.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 26, 2015, 07:44:21 PM
The one thing I'm concerned about is FPS.
Unfortunately the demo haven't allowed the player to halve the fps yet (there's an option for it but it's not doing anything), but the full game should have it. Would help a lot.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 27, 2015, 12:44:47 AM
Unfortunately the demo haven't allowed the player to halve the fps yet (there's an option for it but it's not doing anything), but the full game should have it. Would help a lot.

Yeah I agree to be honest. I could barely play HM due to the FPS lag. Didn't ZUN at one point say that HM was meant for higher-end computers? (or was that about DDC? I get some aspects confused sometimes, sorry.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on April 27, 2015, 01:19:47 AM
Yeah I agree to be honest. I could barely play HM due to the FPS lag. Didn't ZUN at one point say that HM was meant for higher-end computers? (or was that about DDC? I get some aspects confused sometimes, sorry.)

Both are best on high-end computers, HM especially. DDC only really requires it for the higher resolutions.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Katierou on April 27, 2015, 02:06:10 AM
(http://i60.tinypic.com/dlgklc.jpg)

NAM-UNZAN!!

Ichirin seems to be using Unzan to make Byakuren's scroll pattern. I wonder if we'll see a Byakuren-style attack as a result (I suppose Unzan could recite things, just as Byakuren's scroll auto-recites).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 27, 2015, 03:33:59 AM
Both are best on high-end computers, HM especially. DDC only really requires it for the higher resolutions.

Ohhh okay then. Thanks for answering! I'll have to keep that in mind then.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 27, 2015, 05:17:32 AM
Both are best on high-end computers, HM especially. DDC only really requires it for the higher resolutions.

Even a toaster can handle both games. You don't need a high-end computer or anything even close to that, you need an actual video card.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on April 27, 2015, 12:21:26 PM
The PV has been uploaded to youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-us2yE0s4
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 27, 2015, 12:35:13 PM
They also updated their website. You may need to force a refresh if the images are showing up weird (they changed the files names on a couple of them).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 27, 2015, 01:32:13 PM
Even a toaster can handle both games. You don't need a high-end computer or anything even close to that, you need an actual video card.

Ahh sorry, I forgot the difference on that for a second. I always get these type of concepts mixed up. ;w;"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 27, 2015, 02:07:47 PM
Ichirin & Unzan:
Occult Name: Hasshaku-sama (The Eight-Foot Tall Lady)
A brute force character with an all-overwhelming companion, Unzan. That is her.
Whatever disadvantages she faces, she can blow them away with a punch.

This time, she has acquired a spell that unleashes the power of Hasshaku-sama, entrapping the opponent in a closed space of curses.

Hijiri:
Occult Name: Turbo Babaa (Turbo Granny)
A character specializing in melee and close-up techniques, as if hand-to-hand combat is itself a pillar of her faith.
Her chanting system has functioned as a handicap on her, requiring special attacks to be prepared beforehand.
But in this game, she may freely choose which special attack to use, as long as she has chanting charges remaining. In addition, by prolonging her chanting, multiple charges can be stored.

Her Occult Attack "Silver Skyway" allows her to gallop back-and-forth through the sky at will.

Futo:
Occult Name: Banchou Sarayashiki

A technical character that shoots plates as her danmaku, and utilizes the plates deployed on screen as media for certain special attacks.
Positioning is crucial to Feng Shui. That is why her footwork is among the fastest.

Her Occult Attack is "Okiku Uppercut", which is strengthened by the number of plates she has broken. When the number reaches nine, its true value becomes apparent.

Miko:
Occult Name: Red Mantle, Blue Mantle

A jack-of-all-trades character who excels at both melee and projectiles.
Yet this is only a facade concealing her true power.

When hit by her Occult Attack "Red or Blue, Which Do You Want", the opponent will be forced to choose between red and blue, with red enhancing her melee attacks, and blue enhancing her projectiles.
Striking the oppoent with these enhancements in effect, this is where she truly shines.

Nitori:
Occult Name: Nessie, the Loch Ness Monster

This time, even Nitori has been drawn into the ball ruckus. Without sparing another thought for business, she entered the arena with her Occult Ball-powered invention, the Nessie.

Once deployed, the Nessie acts as an independent turret that provides fire support. It is however a double-edged sword, as she would lose the Occult Ball when its energy runs out.
How to make the most of it is all up to her.

Koishi:
Occult Name: Ms. Merry's Phone Call

A character with a never-seen-before feature: her attacks are readied unconsciously, then released automatically.
Using the ability thoughtlessly will bring her own demise, yet when properly managed, her counterattacks can be triggered faster than one can react.

Her Occult Attack is "I'm Coming to You, Right Now". She makes a phone call to the opponent nearby; when it hits, she will teleport and attack the opponent from behind.
Every time she makes a call, her signal range is expanded, until the opponent has nowhere to run.

Mamizou:
Occult Name: M.I.B.

She can grab her obake-danuki underlings to throw at the opponent.
However, the obake-danuki will retreat if they get hit.
So she must fight with deliberate restrain on her underlings' excesses.

Her Occult Attack is "Alien Capsule". She can deploy capsules containing her underlings, ready for surprise attacks at any moment.

Kokoro:
Occult Name: Kuchisake-onna (Slit-mouthed Woman)

An emotionally unstable character who can switch her mood with special attacks, changing the properties of her projectiles and other attacks with dizzying frequency.

Her Occult Attack "Aesthetic Counterattack" is an all-purpose counter technique that retaliates all opponent attacks, useable only once each round.
After one successful use, it will be replaced by a projectile attack composed of a blade of spiritual qi.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 27, 2015, 02:20:48 PM
The PV has been uploaded to youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-us2yE0s4
Great now I can finally make out Futo's theme in her arrange, looking MUCH forward to the soundtrack from just these few glimpses already <3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on April 27, 2015, 02:32:08 PM
The PV has been uploaded to youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-us2yE0s4
Okay, so :
-Timer gets to freeze ?
-No pause whenever the mystery spot activates
-Nitori's meter charges by itself ?
-Futo's plate meter reset when she uses her occult spell ?
-Futo became a grown-up
-Miko loses her fabulous pose
-Harukawa sensei's rendition of Mamizou and Miko are gorgeous
-Kasen's dragon shoot a big ball of water ?
-Shinmyoumaru is immune to centrifugal force and is muscular enough to lift the mallet with one hand

Two weeks left. Hope there is some surprise that they didn't show in this PV
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 27, 2015, 02:38:32 PM
It seems that Reimu gets a new music theme, which is awesome.

Sadly, Miko's theme is less epic than before.

-Timer gets to freeze ?

It might be the practice mode. In the PV, you can see that the characters all get full Occult ball meter, Spirit meter and Health during the 2nd scene which they activate Spell Cards.

Unfortunately, The PV stops after the Spell card ends before we can see the "Health reverts back to full cuz it's practice mode" in order to prove as such.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on April 27, 2015, 03:02:49 PM
Since ZUN went and extended his hand towards fanworks, I hope he goes to the logical conclusion and introduces voice acting into the next fighting game. It would be quite a treat to know how the girls are supposed to sound like in the head of the Priest  :V .
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 27, 2015, 03:04:17 PM
Is there a more specific English fighting game terminology for 当身技, other than "counterattack"? You know, like Howard Geese's techniques.

The returning character profiles are all translated, with tolerable quality.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 27, 2015, 03:18:02 PM
> Loch Ness Monster
> Men in Black

Oh ZUN, you absolute card.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on April 27, 2015, 03:34:26 PM
Ichirin & Unzan:
Occult Name: Hasshaku-sama (The Eight-Foot Tall Lady)
A power-type character with an all-overwhelming companion, Unzan.
That's who she is.
Whatever disadvantages she faces, she can blow them away with a punch.

This time, she has acquired a spell that unleashes the power of Hasshaku-sama, entrapping the opponent in a closed space of curses.

Hijiri:
Occult Name: Turbo Babaa (Turbo Granny)
A character specializing in melee and close-up techniques, as if hand-to-hand combat is itself a pillar of her faith.
Her chanting system has acted as a handicap on her, requiring special attacks to be prepared beforehand.
In this game, she may freely choose which special attack to use, as long as she has chanting charges. In addition, by prolonging her chanting, multiple charges can be stored.

Her Occult Attack "Silver Skyway" allows her to gallop back-and-forth in the air at will.

Futo:
Occult Name: Banchou Sarayashiki

A technical character that controls a danmaku of plates, and utilizes the plates currently deployed on screen as media for her unique special attacks.
Locations are crucial to Feng Shui, that's why the speed of her footwork is in the fastest class.

Her Occult Attack is "Okiku Uppercut", which is enhanced by the number of plates she has shattered. Its true value becomes apparent when nine plates have been broken.

Miko:
Occult Name: Red Mantle, Blue Mantle

An all-purpose character who excels at both melee and projectiles.
Yet this is only a facade concealing her true identity.

When hit by her Occult Attack "Red or Blue, Which Do You Want", her opponent will be forced to choose between red and blue, with red enhancing her melee, and blue enhancing her projectiles.
To strike the oppoent in these enhanced states, this is her true role.

My analisys on the characters Urban Legends

Miko's Urban Legend:

So apparently Miko's Urban Legend is based off of Aka Manto... fitting considering Miko's cape can change color according to the amount of believers she has.

For those who don't know Aka Manto is a being that lurks in public bathrooms of any kind, if you sit on a toilet usually on the last stall, a misteryous voice will ask you:
Red papper, or Blue papper

If you answer red, he will cut you on the spot ( like literally cut you like that food that was cut by that Sonic 2 cardradige in the add for Sonic 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N16_VT4v9z8 ) and your clothes will be painted with your blood.

If you answer Blue he will choke you like Homer does to Bart until you die and your face becomes blue.

If you answer any other color or something stupid, you will be dragged into the underworld. The only way to escape is to say no papper.

Ichirin and Unzan's Urban Legend:

Ichirin and Unzan's Urban Legend as her title says is based off of the 8 Foot-Tall Lady or Hachishakusama, i don't have that much information on her, but i know she was very tall woman who abducted children, she wore a long white dress and makes a sound like:

Po...Po...Po

Kokoro's Urban Legend:

Kokoro's Urban Legend is based off of Kushisake-onna or in english, the slit-mouth woman

Kushisake-onna habits dimly lit streets and alleys, she was a beautiful lady who one time her husband who was a samurai slit her mouth and killed her, now she is a vengeful spirit who kills children, once one enconters her, she will ask:

Am i beautiful?

If you answer yes she will reveal her true face, and ask you:

What about now?

If you scream in terror or say no she will cut your mouth from ear to ear so you look just like her, say yes and she will leave you be, only to follow you home and brutally slauther you. The only way to say:

You look normal

or

You look average

In which case Kushisake-onna will be confused and that's you cue to flee, however you only have a limited amount of time to do so.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 27, 2015, 04:01:45 PM
Is there a more specific English fighting game terminology for 当身技, other than "counterattack"? You know, like Howard Geese's techniques.

Most people just call them counters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 27, 2015, 04:33:07 PM
Most people just call them counters.
Counters or catch counters, typically.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 27, 2015, 04:44:16 PM
Hey, my guess is right. Both the chanting mechanic and the Jet Babaa. Incoming flood of BBA jokes, since people are having a blast over it in Japanese threads. :V
Some people are complaining that this seems to be a nod to the BBA jokes from Tasofro and ZUN, and isn't taken too well, but I actually think this can be a good thing for Hijiri's image.
Since it's mentioned that the girls pick their own urban legends, this means that Hijiri chose this one herself, showing that she's aware of what it means to her and doesn't mind accepting it. So she won't fuss over old age or stuff, making the BBA jokes less effective. (Not like it'll stop anyone, but you know...)
In a way, calling her a granny or BBA or such now will be answered with a heartfelt, gentle smile. Further cementing how mature her character is in canon.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2afk6mo.jpg)

Still, I'm wondering what's the "Rider" is all about now. Something like this?
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2eojl0p.jpg)
Seems about right.

But on a serious note, hers is the only one that I haven't understand yet. The profile focus more on the modified chanting mechanic, while there's still no picture of her occult attack, and the explanation doesn't give much either, since everyone can fly already. What makes hers different? Galloping through the sky? Trekking through the sky?  Maybe it's a jab to Air Gear's Sky Road?
So she'll have unmatched mobility compared to the others or something?

> Loch Ness Monster
> Men in Black

Oh ZUN, you absolute card.
Got a bingo on Nitori's Loch Ness as well, so I'm quite happy.
And Kilga, that's a mistake there. It's Mamizou in Black
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 27, 2015, 04:59:13 PM
Google indicates "Silver Skyway" is a Ridge Racer stage, so that's that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: BATMANDANCEPARTY on April 27, 2015, 05:07:23 PM
But on a serious note, hers is the only one that I haven't understand yet. The profile focus more on the modified chanting mechanic, while there's still no picture of her occult attack, and the explanation doesn't give much either, since everyone can fly already. What makes hers different? Galloping through the sky? Trekking through the sky?  Maybe it's a jab to Air Gear's Sky Road?
So she'll have unmatched mobility compared to the others or something?
I think her occult "attack" is when she has the prayer beads around her (similar looking to her 66[A] in HM) and she can move at whatever angle she wants. Very briefly at the 1:17-1:20 mark you see her on the top of the screen, goes to the middle with her beads around her (what I assume is the occult skill), and then she makes a dead stop. It happens again at around 1:22-1:25 where she kind of prolongs her back dash. Maybe thats the "gallop back and forth in the air at will" hiji has now

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: UTW on April 27, 2015, 06:20:36 PM
Given that Kasen is here and Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom (probably) has something with the moon, maybe it is time i should binge-read the touhou mangas. Is there a recommended order? I guess that, chronologically, the moon sage is the first, but what about FS and WaHW?

I wrote this a few months ago elsewhere, which covers all the print material, with additional info edited in just now...

Quote
Eastern and Little Nature Deity -> Strange and Bright Nature Deity 1, (Imperishable Night) -> Silent Sinner -> Lunatic Runagate (don't skip this, it provides much needed context and background) -> Inaba x2, Curiosities of Lotus Asia (chapters were originally released from, like, PCB through MoF, although none cross over), Bohemian Archive/ZUN's story from Seasonal Dream Vision -> (Phantasmagoria of Flower VIew), SaBND 2-3 -> (Great Fairy War), Perfect Memento, Oriental Sacred Place 1-3, Grimoire of Marisa, 1st half of Wild and Horned Hermit, Symposium of Post-mysticism, Forbidden Scrollery + recent Wild and Horned Hermit (DDC+HM happen halfway through both...you'll know when you see it).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on April 27, 2015, 06:23:45 PM
The PV has been uploaded to youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m-us2yE0s4

This is so awesome!

Gameplay aside, what about the music? I really like Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly, Emotional Skyscraper, Shoutoku Legend, Hartmann's Youkai Girl (though these three in HM were just gorgeous), Futatsuiwa from Gensokyo and Little Princess. On the other hand, Love-coloured MS and Immortal Smoke are a bit "meh".

Also, is it just me, or there are traces of Rumble Temple in Kasen's theme? XD
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 27, 2015, 06:40:53 PM
It's just you.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on April 27, 2015, 08:00:27 PM
That small part of Battlefield of Hanahazama   we get to hear *is* quite similiar in style to Rumble Temple  to me though. It's somewhat of a shame that ZUN went with fanmade arranges for every other character, yet didn't try to include the one fanmade theme that people associate with Kasen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 27, 2015, 08:24:20 PM
That small part of Battlefield of Hanahazama   we get to hear *is* quite similiar in style to Rumble Temple  to me though. It's somewhat of a shame that ZUN went with fanmade arranges for every other character, yet didn't try to include the one fanmade theme that people associate with Kasen.
To be fair, I'd have LOVED to see Rumble Temple be made Kasen's official theme, but I'm looking forward to hearing her canon theme too. Knowing ZUN, it'll probably be great.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FLASH on April 27, 2015, 09:24:37 PM
hmm i'm having very mixed feelings about this... it's so un-ZUN like to suddenly take fanwork into official games like this, something he repeatedly said over the years he'd always avoid cause he didn't want to give unfair appraisal to some circles and not others...
this is actually the biggest surprise in anything relating to this game as far as i'm concerned.

then again it's not like most of the music of the fighting games was done by him anyway, but at least those were artists employed by Tasofro, specifically for the game, not people who already do Touhou arranges on their own...
i guess i don't mind so much if those are themes the circles made SPECIFICALY for this game? but that's still strange...

it seems with this one, because of the many artists, they tried to put in for a little bit of everyone's taste as far as genres of music goes... as a result for me this OST feels pretty disjointed, more like a compilation of songs than a consistent OST of one game, with recurring feels and themes trhoughout the different songs, which makes the whole thing feel a bit weird but maybe that's just me.  :V

it makes it pretty Hit & Miss too, as a result: you're bound to like at least one song, but also pretty assured you're gonna hate some too, which is unfortunate...
i dunno i really like Mamizou, Miko and Sukuna's themes and now i look forward to listening the full version for example, but there are also a few in there i hated including the one for my favourite character.  :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on April 27, 2015, 09:51:13 PM
These arranges are made specifically for the game, of course.

as a result for me this OST feels pretty disjointed, more like a compilation of songs than a consistent OST of one game

It has always been this way) Themes are part of a character, not of a plot, after all.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on April 27, 2015, 10:24:43 PM
It is also worth noting that the game has some new themes to hold the image of the game together, even with all these thematically different songs in the OST, especially in cases of the story, where the characters personal theme might not be appropriate, similar to SWR. The demo has already given us two of these (I think) and if any of them are as good as Ridiculous Game, I'm totally fine with it.

Personally, I like everything I've heard and seen in the trailer. Byakuren's theme is kinda different from what I'd expect from her, but everyone else's seem very well fitting. Can't wait to hear it all in its full glory.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on April 27, 2015, 11:39:56 PM
both use trumpets

clearly hanahazama is rumble temple
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 27, 2015, 11:58:54 PM
Hahaha, I was about to post a longer reply detailing how these two tracks are nothing alike but I think that sums it up pretty well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 28, 2015, 12:56:03 AM
When hit by her Occult Attack "Red or Blue, Which Do You Want", the opponent will be forced to choose between red and blue, with red enhancing her melee attacks, and blue enhancing her projectiles.

Wha? So, the opponent is the one who chooses the buff that Miko gets? First time I've heard of such a mechanic, and this is in a fighting game, of all things.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aListers on April 28, 2015, 01:07:12 AM
I'm kind of disappointed that my country's most famous monster didn't appear in Touhou as an actual youkai (I'll still hope though) but I should really be proud right now. My country has invented many things so I guess it fits. That and it's an invention by Nitori, the first touhou character I ever met in a dream and my main in HM, so when I fight I can be patriotic and proud at the same time. If my country gets mentioned then I'm taking a screenshot.

Nonetheless, I actually enjoyed HM so I'll probably enjoy this. The themes themselves make me excited and I've been watching the dub of Ghost stories for a laugh which has made me even more hyped for this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on April 28, 2015, 01:37:31 AM
Wha? So, the opponent is the one who chooses the buff that Miko gets? First time I've heard of such a mechanic, and this is in a fighting game, of all things.
I'm torn between thinking it's a really iffy mechanic for a fighting game but an amazingly fitting choice for Miko as a character. "As an extension of my grace, I will let you choose how you would prefer me to beat you", or something of the sort.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 28, 2015, 02:43:01 AM
Actually a mechanic like that is totally fine, but the choice taken would probably skew heavily one way or another. Closest thing I can think of would be "choose a card" type, like Dorothy from AH3 has, except that's more of a guessing game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on April 28, 2015, 02:51:24 AM
detailing how these two tracks are nothing alike

Okay, okay, I give up. It was half-joke anyway)

my country's most famous monster

I'm waiting for my country's monsters too. Probably won't happen though, as they are not very famous.

"As an extension of my grace, I will let you choose how you would prefer me to beat you"

And that is how awesome Miko is!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 28, 2015, 04:27:41 AM
The tracks has similar instruments, yes.  ;)
I think it's quite similar, not in notation, but the feel is there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shadowlupus on April 28, 2015, 04:47:26 AM
Here's what I have something in mind for Miko's Occult.

Suppose that Miko has less health than the (player's) opponent (cuz the computer opponent will likely to instantly select either of it.)

If Miko's (player) opponent decide not to choose either of them and stall until the timer runs low and they win because they have more health, wouldn't it be a little disadvantageous?

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 28, 2015, 04:52:54 AM
Wha? So, the opponent is the one who chooses the buff that Miko gets? First time I've heard of such a mechanic, and this is in a fighting game, of all things.
I also find that gimmick interesting, especially since it's being faithful to the original legend(though you cannot answer any other colors :derp:).
Since both of them are buffs, either one should be a good boost if they're as good as her old Red Mantle. Like mauve said, it may skew things somewhat(depending on which play style the user is comfortable with), but since Miko is pretty well-balanced in general, I think it won't be much of a problem.
I'm actually more worried about how useful it will be though, since the boost duration is very brief. Only 5 seconds in real life, not game timer, and that is very short. Using it to end a combo will make you lose time while the enemy is stunned. And even when it didn't stun the opponent, you need the Fast Declaration Cancel(FDC, heh GG) to follow up the wall-slam. The video showcasing it wasn't bad, but I wonder how you can maximize its potential.
Although, that may not be an issue if the duration increases as you gain more occult balls, but we don't know about that yet. Perhaps when you have 3+ balls it'll be more reliable.

Anyway, this gimmick left out the penalty from the last one, so it should level her game and make it more fair now.

Here's what I have something in mind for Miko's Occult.

Suppose that Miko has less health than the (player's) opponent (cuz the computer opponent will likely to instantly select either of it.)

If Miko's (player) opponent decide not to choose either of them and stall until the timer runs low and they win because they have more health, wouldn't it be a little disadvantageous?
I don't think that'll be a problem unless it's in the very last seconds. The default choice is Blue Mantle, and I think you can't exactly confirm it. It will automatically chose the color in around 2 seconds, and I think that's how it'll always be.

In the case you described, the Miko player shouldn't even try to attempt it since going straight-up to combo should be more reliable.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on April 28, 2015, 08:39:55 AM
I am really pleased with how this game is turning out from what I have seen so far. From my personal experience from the Touhou fighting games, HM was simply a game that I ran through all the characters story mode with, unlocked Kokoro... and haven't really played since. Without any real features that made you want to continue playing (such as arcade mode, unlocking character spell cards etc) I simply lost interest in it and went back to playing Soku since that game had more game replaying value and overall polish to it.

I will send a prayer to the Hakurei god that UliL is more like Soku.

Still, since it's only a matter of time now until UliL is released at this coming Reitasai, I think it's time now to have that important talk that the English speaking touhou community has when a new game is about to be released. Douse anybody here have any plans or intentions to attempted a translation patch of UliL once the full game is released? Lets face it, it's a touhou community tradition to dive into the code of the game and turn the Japanese into English. I personally find myself just as hyped for English translation patches by the community as the actual games themselves.

I want to make a quick shout out to brliron for his great efforts on translating HM and also Gensokyo.org staff for their previous translations from years ago on the older games. My thanks to you is infinite and you truly are Hakurei gods in my eyes!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on April 28, 2015, 10:13:14 AM
The "choose how you'll die" bit is the whole point of the red cape, blue cape legend though. If would be odder if the opponent didn't have the choice.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: RaiTo on April 28, 2015, 11:35:26 AM
Just checked out the character drawing styles. THAT mamizou is so cute! And Ichirin looks like Levy from fairy tail!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ~Shin Kuroi~ on April 28, 2015, 01:24:12 PM
Just checked out the character drawing styles. THAT mamizou is so cute! And Ichirin looks like Levy from fairy tail!

Ahh now that you mention it she kind of does ^^;

I personally really like Koishi and Kokoro's the best. I think it really brings out their personalities... er, ironically.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 28, 2015, 03:08:16 PM
There is an unverified rumor that the Reitaisai livestream at Super Conference also mentioned Cool & Create's participation in the ULiL soundtrack. If true, this could mean the existence of another returning character as the penultimate boss. I'm still wait for a confirmation from someone who watched the stream.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on April 28, 2015, 04:03:50 PM
There is an unverified rumor that the Reitaisai livestream at Super Conference also mentioned Cool & Create's participation in the ULiL soundtrack. If true, this could mean the existence of another returning character as the penultimate boss. I'm still wait for a confirmation from someone who watched the stream.

It's Urban Legend in Limbo- all rumors are true.
#ItsSeija

I like this art much much more than any of Alphes's, but from the bits I heard I prefer Hopeless Masquerade's OST to this one. I really want to hear the rest of Kasen's theme if only to find bits of Rumble Temple in it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 28, 2015, 04:43:24 PM
There is an unverified rumor that the Reitaisai livestream at Super Conference also mentioned Cool & Create's participation in the ULiL soundtrack. If true, this could mean the existence of another returning character as the penultimate boss. I'm still wait for a confirmation from someone who watched the stream.
Oh lord, hopefully it's true. A penultimate boss would fit very nicely, I can't see it being anyone other than Nue or Seija though since both would fit in with the incident like a charm.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 28, 2015, 05:03:29 PM
It would be weird to have a roster of 14 so it's very likely there will be a penultimate boss, well I hope, because if ULiL is following SWR then it would make sense. I personally don't know what would be better, a returning character is always welcome on the fighters because it will boost it's popularity, we will see it in action and  an official arrangement of her theme. But a new character would be apreciated, although it's not always a good thing, from what I see, at least Iku wasn't that popular or Tenshi (Well, Tenshi was somehow popular but I always see negative comments about her  :ohdear: but she is still one of my faves)

I am really pleased with how this game is turning out from what I have seen so far. From my personal experience from the Touhou fighting games, HM was simply a game that I ran through all the characters story mode with, unlocked Kokoro... and haven't really played since. Without any real features that made you want to continue playing (such as arcade mode, unlocking character spell cards etc) I simply lost interest in it and went back to playing Soku since that game had more game replaying value and overall polish to it.

I will send a prayer to the Hakurei god that UliL is more like Soku.

I don't think ULiL is following Soku, nor it will become like Soku, being honest Soku was just an expansion of SWR that ended up adding joke characters to the roster, the incident presented and the story were not relevant to the story of Gensokyo (Since ZUN was very vague about it, I think we can't know which story of the 3 characters was canonical), it just added more popular characters, "patched" SWR and added new spell cards. If ULiL will be similar to something, it will be SWR which in my opinion is a better game than Soku (it has less characters but the story, music and setting made it awesome)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 28, 2015, 05:05:32 PM
There is an unverified rumor that the Reitaisai livestream at Super Conference also mentioned Cool & Create's participation in the ULiL soundtrack. If true, this could mean the existence of another returning character as the penultimate boss. I'm still wait for a confirmation from someone who watched the stream.

I'd honestly be extremely surprised if there were no penultimate boss on this game. All fighters so far had one, so it makes no sense for only ULiL to be different.

That said, I'm pretty sure it will be either Nue or Seija, But I'm more inclined towards the latter because it'd be really weird for Sukuna to be on the game and not Seija. I mean, she was the mastermind of th14, the one that triggered the incident. And she got her own game recently as well. Sukuna was just tricked by her and... yeah, that's pretty much it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on April 28, 2015, 05:26:09 PM
With the possible Nue/Seija thing, personally I would lean towards Nue over Seija, because as much as Seija has ties to TH14 and Shinmyonmaru and everything, Nue has a stronger connection to urban legends (one of her spellcards in Double Spoiler was even a reference to Hanako, another a reference to the red paper, blue paper legend), and being, well, a nue, makes her more in line with the whole thematic of the game.

Granted it's just rumors, so to be honest I don't think either character may be in at all, but points for hoping.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 28, 2015, 05:41:52 PM
or... or... it could be Flan ! Remember all the stages are night ?!

It would be weird to have a roster of 14 so it's very likely there will be a penultimate boss, well I hope, because if ULiL is following SWR then it would make sense. I personally don't know what would be better, a returning character is always welcome on the fighters because it will boost it's popularity, we will see it in action and  an official arrangement of her theme. But a new character would be apreciated, although it's not always a good thing, from what I see, at least Iku wasn't that popular or Tenshi (Well, Tenshi was somehow popular but I always see negative comments about her  :ohdear: but she is still one of my faves)

I don't think ULiL is following Soku, nor it will become like Soku, being honest Soku was just an expansion of SWR that ended up adding joke characters to the roster, the incident presented and the story were not relevant to the story of Gensokyo (Since ZUN was very vague about it, I think we can't know which story of the 3 characters was canonical), it just added more popular characters, "patched" SWR and added new spell cards. If ULiL will be similar to something, it will be SWR which in my opinion is a better game than Soku (it has less characters but the story, music and setting made it awesome)

- Iku is quite popular (not youmu/reisen tier popular, but higher than shou etc IIRC) in the annual votes.
- The characters added in soku aren't joke characters  :ohdear: (unless you mean plot-wise)

Though I think a returning character would be cool for now, it will boost game popularity yeah  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on April 28, 2015, 05:58:17 PM
I didn't think i'd say this, but i don't like almost any of the tracks for the game. Only Miko's and the one in the demo while fighting Kasen i find good :\
About the penultimate boss: if there's one, Nue would fit very well given her relations to urban legends, and the symbols in the cover are apparently taken from her SC, but maybe she would be too obvious?

I am also eager to see how ULiL is related to LoLK. I'm so hyped :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 28, 2015, 06:25:44 PM

- Iku is quite popular (not youmu/reisen tier popular, but higher than shou etc IIRC) in the annual votes.
- The characters added in soku aren't joke characters  :ohdear: (unless you mean plot-wise)

Though I think a returning character would be cool for now, it will boost game popularity yeah  :D

I have had trouble seeing fans that love Iku, I mean, she is not hated like Tenshi but the fans love other characters more and well, yeah I mean it plotwise, the plot for Soku is anyway a kind of a joke. I think someone said the three characters with a story mode in Soku was mostly for laughs, with Cirno battling Goliath Doll, Meiling dreaming and Sanae battling casually with Suwako after everything was solved.

I think Nue is more likely for our surprise character, it would make sense considering how related she is to the urban legends but seeing now that everyone is using her Spell Cards as their Occult Power, Nue will only be left with her own myth, the Nue, a chimera or something.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 28, 2015, 06:30:09 PM
On one hand, Nue is the obvious choice. On the other, that would be four Buddhists in the game compared to two Taoists, and I don't know if ZUN would do that. Frankly I'd be more inclined to say "new character" if anything.

(It won't be Seija, or at least, it won't be Seija because of the theme. Seija isn't a 'trickster' because of urban legends, she's a 'trickster' because she's an asshole.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on April 28, 2015, 06:40:29 PM
Nue's not really a Buddhist, though. She just lives there. Same with Koishi being a laywoman of the temple and Mamizou being there. They don't actually represent the religion like Byakuren or Ichirin do. They just sort of live there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on April 28, 2015, 06:47:30 PM
I have had trouble seeing fans that love Iku, I mean, she is not hated like Tenshi but the fans love other characters more and well, yeah I mean it plotwise, the plot for Soku is anyway a kind of a joke. I think someone said the three characters with a story mode in Soku was mostly for laughs, with Cirno battling Goliath Doll, Meiling dreaming and Sanae battling casually with Suwako after everything was solved.

I think Nue is more likely for our surprise character, it would make sense considering how related she is to the urban legends but seeing now that everyone is using her Spell Cards as their Occult Power, Nue will only be left with her own myth, the Nue, a chimera or something.
If anything I think Nue's occult power would be the Jersey Devil, it'd fit her pretty well. 
On one hand, Nue is the obvious choice. On the other, that would be four Buddhists in the game compared to two Taoists, and I don't know if ZUN would do that. Frankly I'd be more inclined to say "new character" if anything.

(It won't be Seija, or at least, it won't be Seija because of the theme. Seija isn't a 'trickster' because of urban legends, she's a 'trickster' because she's an asshole.)
It seems plausible to me for Seija to take up an urban legend to further bolster her being an asshole, plus it seems like a good chance for Sukuna to get her own back against Seija story-wise.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 28, 2015, 07:31:26 PM
Frankly I'd be more inclined to say "new character" if anything.

It could be a new character as well. Iku was a non-veteran penultimate boss after all.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 28, 2015, 07:41:58 PM
It could be a new character as well. Iku was a non-veteran penultimate boss after all.

If the rumor is true, then the fifth character will most definitely not be a new character. Each time a new character appeared in one of the fighters, she had a song composed by ZUN. This is true for all the fighting games up to now, and I don't see why it would be any different for ULiL.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on April 28, 2015, 07:54:55 PM
Think about this everyone, Seija has a reverse mindset to everyone in Gensokyo, what i mean is:

Everyone wants and is using Urban Legends, that means Seija doesn't want to use Urban Legends in any way.

I am more inclined for Nue, for the same reasons other users have mentione:

1: Her connection to Urban Legends being a Chimera and her spellcards
2: Her relationship with Mamizou
3: She just seems like one to use Urban Legends

On the other hand it would be a complete waste of an opportunity to have Kaguya duke it out with Mokou, maybe at the time of the demo she wasn't in the game's character dat. or is meant to be a secret.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 28, 2015, 08:03:03 PM
I have no idea why anyone liked Alphes's art style in the first place, it's so bland and boring. The linework was nice but the coloring really didn't fit. New art is much better and more fitting to the Touhou feel ZUN gives, though it doesn't match the new sprites as well.

Though, I do sorta buy the "they hired an Alphes imitator" rumor for HM honestly, because the proportions generally just didn't look like his work and there's some really strange errors like Marisa's arm being shorter than her torso in her cutin.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 28, 2015, 08:25:29 PM
I have no idea why anyone liked Alphes's art style in the first place, it's so bland and boring. The linework was nice but the coloring really didn't fit. New art is much better and more fitting to the Touhou feel ZUN gives, though it doesn't match the new sprites as well.

^ This. I never really liked his art either, it's pretty boring.

Moe Harukawa's art is much superior. I'd say she is clearly the best official artist so far.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 28, 2015, 08:45:36 PM
I have no idea why anyone liked Alphes's art style in the first place, it's so bland and boring. The linework was nice but the coloring really didn't fit. New art is much better and more fitting to the Touhou feel ZUN gives, though it doesn't match the new sprites as well.

Though, I do sorta buy the "they hired an Alphes imitator" rumor for HM honestly, because the proportions generally just didn't look like his work and there's some really strange errors like Marisa's arm being shorter than her torso in her cutin.

That's right, I really dislike when everyone uses his art for anything, besides I think it looked refreshing the first time in IaMP but then after that it became too repetitive, I think almost everyone has the same face in HM

Ah yes, if the rumor is true then it will be a veteran, well not to drift too far but... if the game we are getting after this one is related to the moon and ZUN said we will get spoilers for ULiL in LoLK... could it be her chance to enter the fray?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: BATMANDANCEPARTY on April 28, 2015, 08:57:39 PM
*inb4 kogasa shats on everyones expectations and she's the character you have to love now*

Hate to keep beating a dead horse but I REALLY hope Nue would be the penult' boss
I can just envision how fun her attacks would be if they were implemented in a fighter
Not to mention that mean lookin' pitchfork she has, I want to see that in action
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on April 28, 2015, 09:04:51 PM
The way Alphes colors looks like a photoshop accident turned into an "artstyle"... Super gimmicky. Then he went way overboard with that odd shadowing of his in 13.5 which just looks silly and forced. Futo's portrait in particular looks like a mess.
The way he draws isn't very different from generic anime if you ignore the coloring.

I hate it when people use the art of his imitators in danmakufu scrips. These are drawn worse and look even more boring. Most of them make the characters look like they're made of plastic bags too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 28, 2015, 09:19:42 PM
I hate it when people use the art of his imitators in danmakufu scrips. These are drawn worse and look even more boring. Most of them make the characters look like they're made of plastic bags too.

some artist called Kaoru drew a crapload of those portraits, and they all look awful. It's like they're not even trying anymore.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 28, 2015, 09:58:27 PM
The way Alphes colors looks like a photoshop accident turned into an "artstyle"... Super gimmicky. Then he went way overboard with that odd shadowing of his in 13.5 which just looks silly and forced. Futo's portrait in particular looks like a mess.
The way he draws isn't very different from generic anime if you ignore the coloring.

I hate it when people use the art of his imitators in danmakufu scrips. These are drawn worse and look even more boring. Most of them make the characters look like they're made of plastic bags too.

I hate it too, I do Danmakufu and I preffer more ZUN's official art, although sometimes you get lucky enough to find artists that mimic ZUN's style. That way I found a Kokoro to use in a script <3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FLASH on April 28, 2015, 10:04:26 PM
Moe Harukawa's art is much superior. I'd say she is clearly the best official artist so far.

whoever drew Silent Sinner in blue i liked the best.
he/she's kinda generic i guess, but keeping it simple works very well with touhou i feel and resonates well with the ZUNart (simple in trait and apearance, and not overly stylized, but great attention to details if you look carefuly).


Moe i generally like a lot, but some characters just randomly look wrong to me in her style for some reason (example: ultra-slim malnutrition Mokou... or Marisa and her big single fringe of hair on her forhead gets me OCD, i just want to grab a scissor and cut that off! lol  :derp: )
sometimes too i find she can go a bit overboard with the Massive, round, sparkling eyes (even by manga art standards i mean).

as long as it's not Alphes though :p gonna agree with everyone here; never liked this style much, never understood why anyone liked it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 28, 2015, 10:12:57 PM
That's true. Moe Harukawa is by no means perfect, but I still prefer her over the other official artists.

they should just hire banpai akira to do the portraits (lolno)
:V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on April 28, 2015, 10:48:51 PM
ultra-slim malnutrition Mokou
She's a hobo who literally and regularly starves herself to death because she can't be assed to eat

I think Moe's depiction of her is one of the most accurate portrayal of the character ever, tbqh
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on April 28, 2015, 11:04:53 PM
It pleases me greatly that we now actually have a visual of Mokou straight-up incinerating herself.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 29, 2015, 12:06:31 AM
I hate it when people use the art of his imitators in danmakufu scrips. These are drawn worse and look even more boring. Most of them make the characters look like they're made of plastic bags too.

Does anyone use Dairi's art? I actually like their alphes imitation style.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on April 29, 2015, 12:19:08 AM
I've seen it used very rarely, but I've personally always preferred it to kaoru and other Alphes-style artworks. The fact that dairi has been also making a lot of "battle-style" artworks and "defeated" artworks makes it fairly usable for Danmakufu scripts.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ps on April 29, 2015, 01:31:04 AM
whoever drew Silent Sinner in blue i liked the best.
That would be Aki Eda.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 29, 2015, 01:45:30 AM
The sprite artist Chabo tweeted (https://twitter.com/irresolution/status/592672523763978240): Mamizou's capsule-throwing animation shown in her official site screenshot is an unused asset from HM.

By the way, Mamizou's alien capsules are modeled after gashapon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gashapon) capsules. The pokeballs were probably inspired by the gashapon balls, not the other way around.

Dobu Usagi (dBu music) mentioned (https://twitter.com/dobuusagi/status/592746868041457664) that while he was greatly humbled by the honor of contributing to an official game, it's interesting that the other guest musicians all have some connections to the Flowering Night live concert, an experience he never had. (Needless to say, that's partially because dBu only makes instrumental arranges, although oiko and ziki_7's music has also been featured at Flowering Night.)

The "document" I mentioned about IaMP Meiling being heavily non-canon turns out to be an old Tasofro (https://web.archive.org/web/20120309095802/http://tasofro.net/cgi-bin/diary/diary200506.html) diary entry.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on April 29, 2015, 01:55:02 AM
*inb4 kogasa shats on everyones expectations and she's the character you have to love now*
Yes plz.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 29, 2015, 02:04:27 AM
IMO Aki Eda's weakness is that she cannot draw adequate expressions for anything less than kindness and sincerity, not even to mention the darker aspects of the emotional spectrum, which account for a significant part of SSiB.

On the other hand, if nothing else, Alphes certainly was good at drawing mischievous and smug faces. Until HM, that is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on April 29, 2015, 02:25:58 AM
Aki Eda's only method of conveying any dark expression is just to shade the top half of everyone's faces
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 29, 2015, 02:30:55 AM
ultra-slim malnutrition Mokou
According to an image from the magazine version of CiLR, Mokou was born lanky (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:CiLR_Mokou.png), and her frame has stayed the same over the thousand years.

We should also note that Harukawa was not a Touhou fan before becoming an official artist. She had no preconception of what the characters look like, and must design them based on consultations with ZUN, a task she seems to take very seriously. As a result, her designs have a better chance of being accurate to ZUN's vision than some other artists. She also drew Udonge taller than normal villagers, as it should be.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 29, 2015, 03:39:13 AM
I sort of liked Alphes' but the HM portraits is just disaster to me, sort of glad Harukawa took the place haha.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on April 29, 2015, 04:41:45 AM
Penultimate boss will almost certainly be veteran. First, one more arrange for this game which will proably be her theme, and second, including Kasen, there are already two newcomers.

List of prime suspects imo: Nue, Yukari, Yuugi, Reisen, Kaguya. First two are obvious, third - may be the last boss is the fourth Deva or something like that and last two - from the line about spoilers in LoLK.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Formless God on April 29, 2015, 04:51:17 AM
alphes is only good when he's doing album covers; as for Moe every time I look at her art some other artist's name pop up in my head. Shit's generic in a very uncanny way. Not that I mind playing as Nepgear in a 2whos fighting game or anything.

The only good official artists are ZUN, Hirasaka (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Strange_and_Bright_Nature_Deity) and Matsukura (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Eastern_and_Little_Nature_Deity).

The way he draws isn't very different from generic anime if you ignore what makes it different from generic anime.
no shit
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on April 29, 2015, 05:55:32 AM
Nue's not really a Buddhist, though. She just lives there. Same with Koishi being a laywoman of the temple and Mamizou being there. They don't actually represent the religion like Byakuren or Ichirin do. They just sort of live there.

I don't think Mamizou even lives at the temple. Ichirin doesn't recognize her in HM, and even goes so far as the say that no one at the temples uses techniques like Mamizou's. It's unclear if Byakuren recognizes her or not. And whenever Mamizu shows up in later works she's always off doing her own thing.

The simplest explanation is just that she never accepted Nue's invitation.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on April 29, 2015, 05:58:46 AM
Quote
List of prime suspects imo: Nue, Yukari, Yuugi, Reisen, Kaguya. First two are obvious, third - may be the last boss is the fourth Deva or something like that and last two - from the line about spoilers in LoLK.

Kind of an odd list... Nue and Kaguya seem okay, but I don't think Reisen, Yuugi, or Yukari make sense.
I will throw in Tewi as a guess, since she seems like another possible candidate.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: BATMANDANCEPARTY on April 29, 2015, 06:09:07 AM
Thinking about it now, it'd be pretty cool to see yuugi duke it out
Her title is "The So-Called Unexplainable Phenomenon" and her power is to wield unexplainable phenomena (whatever that means) so I won't put her out of speculation completely
Thats a char I'd definitely love to see actualized
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 29, 2015, 07:06:46 AM
I don't think Mamizou even lives at the temple. Ichirin doesn't recognize her in HM, and even goes so far as the say that no one at the temples uses techniques like Mamizou's. It's unclear if Byakuren recognizes her or not. And whenever Mamizu shows up in later works she's always off doing her own thing.

The simplest explanation is just that she never accepted Nue's invitation.
Prologue of TD Extra and Youmu's Extra story shows that Mamizou took an interest in the temple at least, and even rested there a few times.
About that part with Ichirin, she honestly thought FakeMami was Byakuren untill it is made clear from the technique she used(but she didn't know she was Mamizou, till she undo her transformation). However, this doesn't mean that Ichirin doesn't know Mamizou, since right after that Ichirin got mad at Mamizou for faking herself as Byakuren. So, she knew about Mamizou and her abilities, but haven't exactly experienced it first hand. She also knows that Mami is a friend of Nue from her VS win quotes. However, this probably means the she's not close to her.

As for Byakuren, she recognized her real identity right after they fight, even before Mamizou undo her transformation. This pretty much means she knows her quite well, although never fought each other before since Byakuren compliments Mamizou's transformation abilities. Seeing how they interact with each other, I get the feeling of them being "allies". Not seeing each other as enemies, but not so close to say they're in the same group.

So Mamizou doesn't exactly practices Buddhism, nor represents them, but I imagine she stays around there from time to time.
Nue however, seems to be taking the disciplines.  Just a guess since she's really getting along well with everyone in that second time the Myouren Temple crew got a spotlight in Forbidden Scrollery.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on April 29, 2015, 07:43:14 AM
I don't think it's clear whether Byakuren recognized Mamizou in particular, or just recognized a tanuki transformation in general. It's not like Mamizou is the only tanuki in Gensokyo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on April 29, 2015, 07:49:14 AM
Quote
alphes is only good when he's doing album covers; as for Moe every time I look at her art some other artist's name pop up in my head. Shit's generic in a very uncanny way. Not that I mind playing as Nepgear in a 2whos fighting game or anything.

... But I like Alphes art!  :ohdear:

The only complaint that I had about his artwork in HM was that it took a little getting used to when he drew character eyelashes as the same color as their hair. Apart from that, all good in my opinion.

Let us not forget one of the prime aspects of why Touhou is as popular as it is... artistic interpretation. Thousands of artists from around the world give their own artistic spin and style to what the characters look like in their own works. That is the beauty of Touhou art, nobody is more right or wrong in how the characters look. All you need to do is include the character costume in the art and boom!... that's Koishi, thats Byakuren, that's Reimu etc.

Alphes art is not more "inferior" than Moe Harukawa's, Aya Azuma, Nemu Matsukura, Aki Eda etc. The variety of different art styles is what makes Touhou such a fantastic place for artists of all different types to come together and make something unique but still undeniably Touhou in the eyes of everyone else. This is what has fostered 450,000 Touhou artworks on Danbooru, lack of set structures and allowance of artistic liberties.

Still, with a lack of set structure on character design that Touhou has comes one small downside. Alot of you might disagree with me on this and that's a good, healthy thing to do as this is my own opinion. Touhou characters are defined by what they wear, not by their physical appearance. For example, in artwork when Yuuka Kazami has no clothes on or in an alternate costume... I can bearly tell that that's her. She needs to wear that trademark plaid dress for her to be identified as Yuuka. View any artwork where the characters are gender swapped to see what I mean. Manrisa anyone?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kaizaki on April 29, 2015, 08:05:54 AM
It wouldn't be too surprising if the penultimate character is Kaguya. In most of Mokou's relevant (non-cameo and speaking) canon appearances, the other is either mentioned or present, e.g., IN, HM, her official profile, BAiJR interview, CiLR chapter. (Do their Soku non-appearance count? And the reverse isn't true.) They seem to go together as a pair.

Edit: I contradicted myself with HM (cameo, non-speaking), but my point stands.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 29, 2015, 11:31:09 AM
I don't think it's clear whether Byakuren recognized Mamizou in particular, or just recognized a tanuki transformation in general. It's not like Mamizou is the only tanuki in Gensokyo.
Well, that's just how I feel when I see their conversation in here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Lf7mNCRPEeM#t=1098).
Byakuren's calmness and way of talking, coupled with how she didn't seem surprised at all that it was Mamizou. She was only surprised of how good her transformation capability is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on April 29, 2015, 12:30:48 PM
Well, that's just how I feel when I see their conversation in here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Lf7mNCRPEeM#t=1098).
Byakuren's calmness and way of talking, coupled with how she didn't seem surprised at all that it was Mamizou. She was only surprised of how good her transformation capability is.

Well, I don't think it shows she doesn't recognize, I just don't think it's clear evidence one way or another. She never says "Oh, it's you, Mamizou" or anything like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 29, 2015, 03:59:49 PM
Well, I don't think it shows she doesn't recognize, I just don't think it's clear evidence one way or another. She never says "Oh, it's you, Mamizou" or anything like that.
That's the point.
Precisely because she didn't do or say anything along that line, it gave me the impression that she deduced Mamizou's identity after the fight.
It's not a clear evidence, but I think that helps making people lean towards her recognizing Mamizou, rather than not.

Anyway, all these don't certainly mean she's a member of the Myouren Temple, but she's probably a regular visitor.

As for the addition of Nue, I think being Buddhist or not doesn't really matter, since it's not the main focus now.
But if you meant it as the "group", then I also certainly won't mind if a certain blue hermit joins the party. Both for the excitement of seeing how she'll play in this incident, and the joy of beating her up.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on April 29, 2015, 04:37:30 PM
The "document" I mentioned about IaMP Meiling being heavily non-canon turns out to be an old Tasofro (https://web.archive.org/web/20120309095802/http://tasofro.net/cgi-bin/diary/diary200506.html) diary entry.
There's some interesting stuff on that old diary in general, not including them spending way too much money on MtG cards. Some of the 2007/2008 entries are about the design of SWR and their approach to the decisions they made. More or less confirmed that they had felt players would sit around doing nothing too often, so weather was added as a way of forcing the situation. Apparently it originally had no aspect of luck or randomness associated with it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on April 29, 2015, 04:41:29 PM
I'm seeing more and more portrait art posted on danbooru and have to be honest that some of the characters look good with the artwork change but others not. Marisa looks bit chubby and out of style imo and Byakuren entirely weird. On the other hand Futo and Miko look great like Ichirin etc too. Oh well, just have to deal with it then.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 29, 2015, 04:48:59 PM
and Byakuren entirely weird.

why?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: UTW on April 29, 2015, 11:52:34 PM
I prefer Aya Azuma to Moe Harukawa, but it's not a very significant difference to me. I liked Makoto Hirasaka too. He was very well suited to the Three Fairies series. But Aya and Moe are extremely competent and, it seems to me, the most well rounded of the regulars. alphes was fine for what he was. He didn't need to do much more than that. Until HM, anyway. No idea what happened there since his art from not long before that looked a lot better. Aki Eda just couldn't draw emotion and action scenes for the life of her. She has like 3-4 faces. She did fine with the slice of life, at least.

If we get a returning character to go with the rumors, I see Sanae, Reisen, Komachi, Kaguya, Yukari, Kogasa, Nue, Suika, Seija, and Seiga as the greatest possibilities. I know I'm casting a wide net. Anyway, Sanae and Reisen are being thrust back into the spotlight, though I can't really see a way to tie them in, especially in a potentially penultimate character role, though I still see greater reason for them to be involved than Sakuya. Komachi (Or Eiki? That would be cool) *could* be interested in this type of incident. Kaguya has the Mokou connection. Yukari often has an interest in incidents or could be an instigator (she brought in the hobgoblins, after all). The rest are known as mischievous tricksters or who have been known to incorporate urban legend imagery who could be tied to the incident. But at least in the case of Seija, who has the Shinmyoumaru connection, I think another game could be a little much. Seiga is a bit of wishful thinking, but she does have a match plotwise in Kasen.

Thinking about it now, it'd be pretty cool to see yuugi duke it out
Her title is "The So-Called Unexplainable Phenomenon" and her power is to wield unexplainable phenomena (whatever that means) so I won't put her out of speculation completely
Thats a char I'd definitely love to see actualized

Well, this is kind of a mistranslation, as I recall. We've never actually seen her do anything with her power, which is based on an idiom by Confucius, or something, and has a rather simplified translation. It would be awesome if she showed up, of course. Maybe she wants to draw Kasen out? But based on what she's done, her power is seemingly only there to explain her unexplainable strength, since just saying "Strength" is rather boring. That's not to say she couldn't receive further development. I would love to see her, but I just don't think it's too likely.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 30, 2015, 12:06:25 AM
why?

Maybe it's because now she seems smaller, in a lot of ways. She consists of more hair, making her looks slimmer/smaller in comparison, and the prayer beads also become gigantic.
Color-wise, the purple part of her hair is more dominant than in any other pictures.
It's not exactly bad, but if you asked me what I find odd/different about it, then there you go. I don't know if it's just me though(of course, the skirt tucking hand is absolutely fine in my book).
As for alphes' version, the only iffy part was her right hand that looks a bit too small because of the lacking sense of depth. Other than that, it is superior in my opinion.

Personally though, I think Miko has the worst portrait in ULiL compared to HM. She doesn't look majestic at all. Some even go as far as saying she looks like a slut, mostly because of the hands.
Only her normal portrait though, her SC portrait is fine.

In general, quite a lot of people complaining about the current art have problems with the round face, big eyes, and a syndrome of same face. It's what makes Moe's style unique, but I do can see where they come from, looking at several of those portraits.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 30, 2015, 12:47:17 AM
An element I forgot to mention: Shinmyoumaru has some fishing-based attacks. This is because the Japanese word hari "needle" can also mean "hook", especially fishing hooks.

Her only projectiles shown in the PV are koban gold coins created by Miracle Mallet, falling in a parabolic arc. You can see one of the coins hit Kasen at 4:20. Just judging by the video, she has an even greater melee bias than Youmu.

Re: artwork
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/Touhou/hands_zpsq6fyjdtq.jpg)
You can always mock Harukawa's incapability to draw hands, knees or feet.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 30, 2015, 12:53:00 AM
Was the new episode of Forbidden Scrollery released yet? Last one had us on a cliffhanger regarding the urban legend of Kokkuri-san, so I'm thinking there may be some hints (or stuff like that) in the upcoming chapter.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 30, 2015, 01:20:13 AM
Was the new episode of Forbidden Scrollery released yet? Last one had us on a cliffhanger regarding the urban legend of Kokkuri-san, so I'm thinking there may be some hints (or stuff like that) in the upcoming chapter.
It's out in Japan for less than a week. Judging from spoilers and reader comments, it might have set up a little something for ULiL, but there is zero substantial anything as a story in itself. Itsuari (Five Ants), the guy who predicted "Hata" as the boss of HM, straight called it "worst chapter ever" (in the history of Touhou manga?).

Speaking of Itsuari, the day ULiL was announced, he made a random guess based on nothing but the idea it is a sequel to HM and well, the appearance of toilets in Harukawa's flyer. Zeami, the master of Noh theatre famously wrote:
Quote
「秘すれば花なり。秘せずは花なるべからず。」
"If it is hidden, it is the Flower. If it is not hidden, it cannot be the Flower."
("The Flower" in Zeami's writing refers to Grace, the aesthetic heart of art.)

The kanji 秘 "hidden; secret; esoteric; mystery" in the title reminded him of the quote, so he gave the new character a speculative name of "Hanako" (Flower-daughter), also the name of the toilet ghost.

I'm not sure the ULiL character will have anything to do with aesthetics (Kokoro seems to have that position occupied), but his theories are pretty high-quality.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 30, 2015, 01:21:27 AM
Was the new episode of Forbidden Scrollery released yet? Last one had us on a cliffhanger regarding the urban legend of Kokkuri-san, so I'm thinking there may be some hints (or stuff like that) in the upcoming chapter.
Last one as in chapter 26 about the Oujia board with Rinnosuke, that they use to do Kokkuri-san?
Chapter 27 continues with the game, strange things happen, and Kosuzu ponders again about going to "that other side". People think it raises even more death flags.

Otherwise, look at cuc's post



Speaking of Itsuari, the day ULiL was announced, he made a random guess based on nothing but the idea it is a sequel to HM. Zeami, the master of Noh theatre famously wrote: ("The Flower" in Zeami's writing refers to Grace, the aesthetic heart of art.)

The kanji 秘 "mystery; secret; esoteric" in the title reminded him of the quote, so he gave the new character a speculative name of "Hanako" (Flower-daughter).

I'm not sure the ULiL character will have anything to do with aesthetics (Kokoro seems to have that position occupied), but that was an uncanny coincidence.

Inb4, rivalry between the flower youkais.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 30, 2015, 01:30:41 AM
Chapter 27 continues with the game, strange things happen
Not much of a spoiler: nothing happened, not even the usual Suzunaan shenanigans.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on April 30, 2015, 01:45:32 AM
Speaking of Itsuari, the day ULiL was announced, he made a random guess based on nothing but the idea it is a sequel to HM and well, the appearance of toilets as a player icon. Zeami, the master of Noh theatre famously wrote: ("The Flower" in Zeami's writing refers to Grace, the aesthetic heart of art.)

The kanji 秘 "hidden; secret; esoteric; mystery" in the title reminded him of the quote, so he gave the new character a speculative name of "Hanako" (Flower-daughter), also the name of the toilet ghost.

I'm not sure the ULiL character will have anything to do with aesthetics (Kokoro seems to have that position occupied), but his theories are pretty high-quality.

I didn't even consider that. Like, at all. Maybe this Hanako girl has nothing to do with the urban legends That would explain her name, and why she has that name despite Marisa having Hanako of the toilet. That seems really likely to me, actually.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on April 30, 2015, 01:51:41 AM
Not much of a spoiler: nothing happened, not even the usual Suzunaan shenanigans.
I was referring to the Kokkuri-san game, and more ReiMari.
Though since I haven't read it, there may be nothing significant there after all.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on April 30, 2015, 03:00:36 AM
If we get a returning character to go with the rumors, I see Sanae, Reisen, Komachi, Kaguya, Yukari, Kogasa, Nue, Suika, Seija, and Seiga as the greatest possibilities. I know I'm casting a wide net. Anyway, Sanae and Reisen are being thrust back into the spotlight, though I can't really see a way to tie them in, especially in a potentially penultimate character role, though I still see greater reason for them to be involved than Sakuya. Komachi (Or Eiki? That would be cool) *could* be interested in this type of incident. Kaguya has the Mokou connection. Yukari often has an interest in incidents or could be an instigator (she brought in the hobgoblins, after all). The rest are known as mischievous tricksters or who have been known to incorporate urban legend imagery who could be tied to the incident. But at least in the case of Seija, who has the Shinmyoumaru connection, I think another game could be a little much. Seiga is a bit of wishful thinking, but she does have a match plotwise in Kasen.

I would remove anyone from the list who's already appeared in SWR or Soku. It just seems to me like ZUN would find it a waste to draw new sprites for a character who's already had their time in the spotlight. No one but Reimu or Marisa is so important to the story that they would deserve such a treatment.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 30, 2015, 03:13:52 AM
I would remove anyone from the list who's already appeared in SWR or Soku. It just seems to me like ZUN would find it a waste to draw new sprites for a character who's already had their time in the spotlight. No one but Reimu or Marisa is so important to the story that they would deserve such a treatment.

ZUN does not draw the sprites but you are right, I think he mostly does not want to add previous characters from SWR/Soku (Besides our protagonists) because he is focusing on the post-MoF arc, meaning he wants to give more weight to newer characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on April 30, 2015, 03:13:18 PM
Yea, it was somewhat implied with HM, but with ULiL its pretty much a given.  All the characters besides Reimu and Marisa are the newer ones with the exception of Mokou, but Mokou's so underutilized (in everything besides her one CiLR chapter) that she might as well be new (sure, she isn't at Flandre or Yuuka levels, but its possible those two are that way because ZUN doesn't want to utilize them much for whatever reason, unlike Mokou whom he clearly likes despite not having her show up much because she got her own CiLR chapter.  One which had no relevance to the overall plot so ZUN purposefully went out of his way to write it).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on April 30, 2015, 03:23:48 PM
Yea, it was somewhat implied with HM, but with ULiL its pretty much a given.  All the characters besides Reimu and Marisa are the newer ones with the exception of Mokou, but Mokou's so underutilized (in everything besides her one CiLR chapter) that she might as well be new (sure, she isn't at Flandre or Yuuka levels, but its possible those two are that way because ZUN doesn't want to utilize them much for whatever reason, unlike Mokou whom he clearly likes despite not having her show up much because she got her own CiLR chapter.  One which had no relevance to the overall plot so ZUN purposefully went out of his way to write it).

Mokou never appeared on the fighters so she as Kaguya or Ran for example, were candidates for a surprise character, this is a pattern we have never seen before. (During SWR we just received Aya, Komachi and Reisen who were relatively new and everyone appearing after IaMP, except Reisen but storywise she had still not meet anyone from the original cast)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 01, 2015, 01:55:38 AM
caught up on this today. I'm fine with the art honestly, though if those remixes in the compilation videos are the actual ingame music then I miss U2. mokou's theme is dope though.

btw, is it ever stated how much creative control ZUN has over the fighters and how much of it is tasofro? cuz some stuff in previous fighters seems OOC for him (eg, mamizou's titty intro) or like a weird interpretation of the girls' abilities (eg, mamizou's transformation super). I guess what I'm saying is that Mamizou is weird. still curious
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 01, 2015, 02:10:54 AM
caught up on this today. I'm fine with the art honestly, though if those remixes in the compilation videos are the actual ingame music then I miss U2. mokou's theme is dope though.

btw, is it ever stated how much creative control ZUN has over the fighters and how much of it is tasofro? cuz some stuff in previous fighters seems OOC for him (eg, mamizou's titty intro) or like a weird interpretation of the girls' abilities (eg, mamizou's transformation super). I guess what I'm saying is that Mamizou is weird. still curious
He has considerable control - he wrote all the stories, everything lore-related must be filtered through him, and he can make game design suggestions. E.g. he vetoed using Momiji as Aya's assist attack in SWR, saying they are not on good terms. The teapot super was definitely ZUN-approved, as it was concurrent with the appearance of the teapot legend in the FS Vol. 1 omake story.

With that said, the development of HM seemed shockingly haphazard even for Tasofro, and I suspect ZUN didn't have time to actually play the game until much later. Otherwise, why would something as fundamental to the game's theme as the correspondence between the emotions and religions be changed by a patch half a year post-launch?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 01, 2015, 02:15:01 AM
ohh no I mean the super where she transforms people into animals, which seems odd when her profile said if she tries to disguise a creature as another it's easily seen through, meaning it wouldn't alter their ability to attack

what's the source on him vetoing a momiji assist? would be interested in reading about SWR and HM development if it's translated anywhere
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 01, 2015, 02:40:41 AM
I think the transformation only lasting a few seconds is enough to show it is limited.

From a creator perspective, shouldn't the transformation super be one of the first things you think about when you've got an animal shapeshifter on hand? It is the best chance to comment on your characters using animal motif shorthands.

The Momiji veto's source was a tweet (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/142885545809420288) by Tasofro's Unabara. As discussed in the thread, there was some information on Tasofro's old diary (https://web.archive.org/web/20110719142729/http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/diary/). The majority of info on SWR and Soku came from an internet stream (audio recording (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10791530); a recap (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10791530) in Japanese; a translation (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Interview_on_Nae_Radio_%28September_2009%29) of the recap).

An interview (http://ch.nicovideo.jp/indies-game/blomaga/ar346768) with Unabara.

For more recent games, development info pretty much all comes from the developers' tweets.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 01, 2015, 02:54:15 AM
I think the transformation only lasting a few seconds is enough to show it is limited.
I would say it's moreso for gameplay balance rather than possible canonicity, in terms of how long it lasts.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 01, 2015, 02:58:49 AM
I would say it's moreso for gameplay balance rather than possible canonicity, in terms of how long it lasts.
And spell card battles are a game with balance considerations in-universe too. If ever represented in shooting game terms, the transformation will probably be similar to Shinmyoumaru's "you grow bigger": a survival card with restrictions on player movement.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on May 01, 2015, 05:39:35 AM
Quote
No one but Reimu or Marisa is so important to the story that they would deserve such a treatment.

I'm influenced by that Sanae song, where she's sort of an urban legend, but I think Sanae fits the 7 schools mystery so very much. But yeah, I don't think she will appear.

Quote
I would say it's moreso for gameplay balance rather than possible canonicity, in terms of how long it lasts.

Its kind of meta, but yeah, what cuc said. Any spell card the users create would have limits. Whether or not the user has such a limit is another discussion entirely.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 01, 2015, 08:23:01 AM
I know I'm seriously late to the party, but when I saw Shinmyoumaru in the character roster, I practically jumped out of my seat with excitement. Now I'm abnormally hyped for ULiL, knowing that my favourite character is now playable.

I'm looking forward to hearing U2 Akiyama arrange her theme.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on May 02, 2015, 10:14:41 PM
Quote
("The Flower" in Zeami's writing refers to Grace, the aesthetic heart of art.)

The kanji 秘 "hidden; secret; esoteric; mystery" in the title reminded him of the quote, so he gave the new character a speculative name of "Hanako" (Flower-daughter), also the name of the toilet ghost.

I wasn't thinking about this. But this makes me guess maybe the final boss is that Udonge plant that Kaguya has around her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 03, 2015, 01:39:42 AM
Itsuari also considered the possibility that the Occult Balls are the jewels of the Jeweled Branch (i.e. the Udonge plant), thus the plant is fulfilling its mission to sow discord on the earth, and leading the story into LoLK. (By the way, Itsuari is a mad, mad fan of Bougetsushou, so he will doggedly try to connect everything back to the moon saga, beyond what is sensible.)

Kaguya as the midboss, the Udonge plant as the new character. The main issue is that making use of early plot elements like that is too insular, too much like fanfiction-thinking, while ZUN generally always prefer to create new elements based on new inspirations.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 03, 2015, 03:26:04 PM
The web demo is released. And...

Quote
ZUN: However, Tasogare's server is having trouble breathing.

The server is all busted at the moment.

EDIT:
My download isn't finished, but I can already compare the manual.txt files for changes. Some of these changes might be clarifications rather than design changes. Hasty translations w/ dubious terminology:

The manual now differentiates between normal moving up & down and rushing up and down (Flight + direction, can be performed once before returning to center).

Dashes can be performed twice before returning to center.

Melee strings can be modified by direction keys.

Occult Attacks are now performed by Melee + Shoot.

Three comeback options:
* Comeback: when being blown away, press any action button or 4 + any button.
* Beatdown Avoidance: at the center, before becoming beaten down, press 4 + any button.
* Move-and-rise: when beaten down, press 4 or 6.

Kasen's dragon is called 黄帝 Koutei, a.k.a. Huang Di, the Yellow Emperor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Emperor), China's greatest mythical ruler, also considered an exemplar Taoist in Taoist lore.

Kasen's two other spell cards are:
Wrapping Sign "Prosthetic Arm Proteus"
Eagle Sign "Hawk Beacon"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Formless God on May 03, 2015, 04:35:18 PM
Is Kasen's song in it? This is incredibly important.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 03, 2015, 04:45:30 PM
I like how they didn't have enough sense to put up mirrors this time, like they usually do.

"5 hours remain"

Tasofro's own Twitter states that apparently it has trouble running on some NVidia hardware and they are giving the fantastically bad advice of modifying your driver install to fix it. Really guys?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 03, 2015, 05:24:23 PM
Tasofro's own Twitter states that apparently it has trouble running on some NVidia hardware and they are giving the fantastically bad advice of modifying your driver install to fix it. Really guys?

lolwut

I have NVidia, no way I'm modifying things just to make a game run. If they screwed up, then it's their responsibility to fix the bug, not our responsibility to adapt our hardware to their bugged stuff.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 03, 2015, 05:35:25 PM
They put a mirror but it seems like it's doing worse than the original link atm  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 03, 2015, 05:42:31 PM
None of the download links work for me. Since this is a publicly available demo, is it okay if someone uploads it to a cloud storage service like Dropbox or Google Drive?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Jonath on May 03, 2015, 06:36:24 PM
Okay I hope I can put a link there. One of my friends reuploaded the game on mediafire so that people don't end up having too much problems with the original mirrors.
This is the trial so hopefully this is ok ? Feel free to delete my post if not. (I'm so sorry in that case).

http://www.mediafire.com/download/exzr2sr7xnqrp21/th145_trial.zip
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 03, 2015, 06:40:05 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/PFbPFFM.jpg)

FIFTEEN SLOTS
THE RUMOURS WERE TRUE
THERE'S AN UNREVEALED VETERAN
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Formless God on May 03, 2015, 06:47:09 PM
muh bones
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 03, 2015, 06:50:45 PM
Either Nue or Seija. ...or maybe Kaguya. Oh boy, just 1 week to go! I can barely wait!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: notext on May 03, 2015, 07:14:05 PM
That screenshot really highlights the sameface, doesn't it. Presumably one of those slots would need to be a random select in any case?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 03, 2015, 07:26:44 PM
So... I downloaded the new trial but it's not even working here. When I double click the .exe, nothing happens at all.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 03, 2015, 07:43:41 PM
So... I downloaded the new trial but it's not even working here. When I double click the .exe, nothing happens at all.
Try verifying the .zip file to see if the MD5 hash matches the one on Tasofro's site. The demo worked fine for me, even with the language set to English.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: fsvgm777 on May 03, 2015, 07:52:50 PM
The web trial doesn't run at all on the nVidia GPU for me. However, it does run on integrated Intel graphics (which inevitably means it runs really slow).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 03, 2015, 08:11:06 PM
THERE'S AN UNREVEALED VETERAN

It could also be a totally new penultimate boss character like Iku was.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Jonath on May 03, 2015, 08:20:24 PM
The solution for enabling the game with an nVidia GPU is to rename the folder C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\coprocmanager into something else
I had to do that, had the same problem before (not able to launch the game)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Berzul on May 03, 2015, 08:20:33 PM
And Touhou came to this.... DLC Slots!
..
....

But for real, I wonder if I didn't read or if they would require to copy data over the last game to unlock all the characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gilde on May 03, 2015, 08:23:59 PM
The stage-select menu now displays the music titles as well. The default Hakurei Shrine BGM is "Seven-Orb Collection Showdown" (七玉蒐集ショウダウン), and the default Kourindou BGM is "Occult ? la Carte" (オカルトアラカルト). Both are by Akiyama Uni.

Kasen's first new spell card, "Prosthetic Arm Proteus", is a grab move that emits a tornado of bandages diagonally down. Should the opponent get caught in them, Kasen flings them across the screen. Her second card, "Hawk Beacon", creates a rainbow beacon like the ones from her charged projectile attack. With this powered-up beacon on screen, her up special (firing Kanda at any beacons present) will create an additional explosion of bullets. The powered-up beacon will remain on screen until it's been used four times.
edit: Video of the new cards: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26173688

She also has a new neutral special move that summons Manzairaku, the giant seal from WaHH chapter 22. He(?) bounces a beach ball off his nose; if you perform the move again before the ball falls, he can bounce it multiple times across the screen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Formless God on May 03, 2015, 08:27:02 PM
But for real, I wonder if I didn't read or if they would require to copy data over the last game to unlock all the characters.
why would you do that it's a demo
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 03, 2015, 08:31:17 PM
And Touhou came to this.... DLC Slots!
..
....

But for real, I wonder if I didn't read or if they would require to copy data over the last game to unlock all the characters.
I would have no problem with DLC characters. DLC that adds completely new content to games is perfectly fine, unlike certain developers and their obvious money-grabbing practices. And to answer your question, I'm pretty sure ULiL is a standalone game.



The solution for enabling the game with an nVidia GPU is to rename the folder C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\coprocmanager into something else
I had to do that, had the same problem before (not able to launch the game)
A command script can easily solve this:

Code: [Select]

rename "C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\coprocmanager" "C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\coprocmanager_"
(address of ULiL goes here)
rename "C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\coprocmanager_" "C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\coprocmanager"


Confirmed to be working on my laptop. Until they patch this, that would be the most painless way to play it. You can probably add some IF statements to detect 32/64 bit configurations, but this should do it for most people.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 03, 2015, 08:37:21 PM
It could also be a totally new penultimate boss character like Iku was.

I doubt that. The rumour that gave us the hint that there may be a fifteenth character was that Twilight Frontier confirmed the participation of Cool&Create, who have no songs in the trailer. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1181010.html#msg1181010) So, the mystery veteran will have a song by Cool&Create, not by ZUN. Which means that the mystery veteran will be a returning character, given that ZUN always composes the theme songs for new characters himself. This is true for Suika in IaMP, for Iku and Tenshi in SWR, for the final boss in Hisoutensoku and for Kokoro in HM, and I can't see why it wouldn't be true now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Jonath on May 03, 2015, 08:39:10 PM
Hey by the way, about that supposed penultimate boss, perhaps the name has been added into the game ? Someone should check the memory trace of an execution in order to find if one has been added (I would do it myself but I don't have any about how to do it).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 03, 2015, 09:15:20 PM
Doing some investigation as to why it's not running into wine, pretty sure I know why it's not working on some nvidia setups now. There's a startup anti-hacking check to make sure that all the dlls are contained within the windows system directory and not elsewhere, so If you have a hex editor, here's a thing to try on th145.exe:

At address 00257e16, you will see
Code: [Select]
0f 83 d8 00 00 00change this to
Code: [Select]
e9 d9 00 00 00 90
If this fixes that, I'm gonna die of laughter.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: fsvgm777 on May 03, 2015, 09:22:20 PM
At address 00257e16, you will see
Code: [Select]
0f 83 d8 00 00 00change this to
Code: [Select]
e9 d9 00 00 00 90
If this fixes that, I'm gonna die of laughter.
Get ready to die of laughter, because that actually fixed it for me.

(I couldn't even rename the directory Tasofro specified, because many other programs are using the DLLs in it)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 03, 2015, 09:32:14 PM
way to go, tasofro.

Still doesn't quite work on wine but that gets past the startup for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 03, 2015, 09:36:34 PM
At address 00257e16, you will see
Code: [Select]
0f 83 d8 00 00 00change this to
Code: [Select]
e9 d9 00 00 00 90
If this fixes that, I'm gonna die of laughter.

lol, it worked for me as well

Thank you, sir. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: fsvgm777 on May 03, 2015, 09:36:56 PM
Actually, it's not quite fixed for me, since selecting Story Mode, Vs Com or Vs Player causes the game to close itself (crash?).

Sorry for the false hope.


EDIT: It was because I copied the score.dat and system.dat from the previous trial to the web trial. Nevermind, the game works properly now after removing them.

(I guess that's what happens when you're awake late at night)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 03, 2015, 09:46:32 PM
THERE'S AN UNREVEALED VETERAN

Actually, now that I think about it more...

I hate to disappoint, but could not one of those slots be reserved for the "random" choice? Hopeless Masquerade had it, and pretty much any regular fighter has it too.

I can't find a way to select the character at random on ULiL, so... if that is true, then that means no returning veteran.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 03, 2015, 09:54:49 PM
Actually, now that I think about it more...

I hate to disappoint, but could not one of those slots be reserved for the "random" choice? Hopeless Masquerade had it, and pretty much any regular fighter has it too.

I can't find a way to select the character at random on ULiL, so... if that is true, then that means no returning veteran.

Those boxes are usually in the center of the character selection screen, which here is occupied by Kasen.

And besides, Hisoutensoku didn't have a random choice box either - you selected a random character by pressing A. They could do the same thing here for the full version.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 03, 2015, 10:09:20 PM
Those boxes are usually in the center of the character selection screen, which here is occupied by Kasen.

And besides, Hisoutensoku didn't have a random choice box either - you selected a random character by pressing A. They could do the same thing here for the full version.

Oh. It's been a long while since I last touched Soku so I don't even remember anymore.

That's good to hear, I guess I can stop worrying now. XD
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 03, 2015, 10:13:55 PM
Hey by the way, about that supposed penultimate boss, perhaps the name has been added into the game ? Someone should check the memory trace of an execution in order to find if one has been added (I would do it myself but I don't have any about how to do it).
th145.pak appears to be encrypted, so any chance of scraping information from there seems futile. Using Process Explorer's "printable strings scan" on the game executable as well as RAM pages reveals random bits of C/C++ code, generic message tables (in English!), as well as parameters used to compile the game. Since this is just a trial, I'd expect them to remove references to things that would be in the retail version of the game, unless they wanted us to find out.

As much as we'd all like to uncover this "secret" character, let's keep in mind that the game will be released in exactly a week. Those who can't contain the hype can dive deeper into the void of code, but at this point I'm content with waiting ;p
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 03, 2015, 10:17:18 PM
th145.pak appears to be encrypted, so any chance of scraping information from there seems futile. Using Process Explorer's "printable strings scan" on the game executable as well as RAM pages reveals random bits of C/C++ code, generic message tables (in English!), as well as parameters used to compile the game. Since this is just a trial, I'd expect them to remove references to things that would be in the retail version of the game, unless they wanted us to find out.

Well, apparently they failed to remove the references in the previous trial versions, leading the early reveal of Nitori, Koishi, Mamizou for HM, and Mokou and Shinmyoumaru for ULiL. If they left all those in by accident, it seems kind odd that they'd go out of their way to remove another one. Unless they learned of the leaks recently and fixed their mistake.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 03, 2015, 10:20:06 PM
Code: [Select]
0f 83 d8 00 00 00change this to
Code: [Select]
e9 d9 00 00 00 90
rofl "eh just skip it and jump"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: BATMANDANCEPARTY on May 03, 2015, 10:24:09 PM
I don't have nVidia but the demo didn't work for me either

BUT

The hex edit on the exe worked its magic and I can play it properly so the fix presented earlier should hopefully work for others too
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 03, 2015, 10:26:56 PM
rofl "eh just skip it and jump"
hey, it works!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 03, 2015, 10:33:06 PM
Well, apparently they failed to remove the references in the previous trial versions, leading the early reveal of Nitori, Koishi, Mamizou for HM, and Mokou and Shinmyoumaru for ULiL. If they left all those in by accident, it seems kind odd that they'd go out of their way to remove another one. Unless they learned of the leaks recently and fixed their mistake.
Keep in mind that this is very shallow analysis, combined with the fact that I'm only looking for strings in English. It's highly likely that a lot of the gibberish I saw in the memory dump is actually SHIFT_JIS encoded text, which might be what we're looking for. I tried opening the ~500MB trace with Word (what I usually use to read non-Unicode stuff), but it just crashes with an Out of Memory error after reading less than half of the file.



Doing some investigation as to why it's not running into wine, pretty sure I know why it's not working on some nvidia setups now. There's a startup anti-hacking check to make sure that all the dlls are contained within the windows system directory and not elsewhere, so If you have a hex editor, here's a thing to try on th145.exe:

At address 00257e16, you will see
Code: [Select]
0f 83 d8 00 00 00change this to
Code: [Select]
e9 d9 00 00 00 90
If this fixes that, I'm gonna die of laughter.

Would this be considered a day -7 patch? :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 03, 2015, 10:37:29 PM
So, what's the input for the occult special now? Holding C doesn't seem to launch it. (EDIT: So Melee+Shot it is).
Still, holy shit. Everyone got their bullets multiplied to the point it finally looks like a danmaku-based fighter again AND everyone got a cool charge shot with their danmaku button  :*
Also Kasen has dragon and seal specials and two new spell cards, Marisa's star shower and uppercut aren't ground-restricted anymore (tornado is now a back input) and her bottles make stars spread and Reimu got her old instant teleport back instead of the dimensional hole from HM.  :getdown:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on May 03, 2015, 11:31:05 PM
Yeah, game looks a lot better than the first demo. Even the Occult Ball mechanic seems to have been tweaked for the better. I can't pinpoint it, but if feel like the ball just doesn't fly around as randomly as before, probably aiming for whoever is doing damage right now? The Mystery Spots don't seem to distract that much from the action either. Also, was it always possible to steal Occult Balls by attacking someone while they use their Occult Attack, because that's totally a thing that happened multiple times right now but I don't remember it from the first demo. It's like punching the Smash Ball out of someone in ... well, Smash.

Characters feel a lot more polished in general. I actually feel in control of Kasen now, whereas I had no idea what I was doing with her in he first demo - still don't know how to shot Eagle, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Soul Devour on May 03, 2015, 11:54:45 PM
I think the biggest question is 'Is the tiger still 1-Frame?'. Please tell me it is, I'm begging you.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 03, 2015, 11:56:33 PM
I replayed story mode today to see if there was anyting diferent, i didn't find anything diferrent, i wanted to see if a few of the others were in the game like Mokou, apparently not -_-"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gondolin on May 04, 2015, 12:02:45 AM
Definitely liking the changes that I've been able to test so far- feels very different from the original demo, imo. I'm a fan of Reimu's new C attack particularly.


Has anyone else been having issues with the demo thinking you have a controller attached when you don't? That's what I've narrowed down the issue to- it seems to think a controller is connected and that it's stuck pushing up(making menu navigation extremely difficult). One odd aspect of this is it's not like I had a controller connected and then disconnected it- I don't even have one I can use. I've even tried pulling out all unnecessary peripherals to see if it was confusing one of those as a controller to no avail. Story mode plays fine though, as it only accepts input from 1P, which is my keyboard, but anything outside of that is nigh inaccessible.
It also seems to not want to launch through AppLocale- though it's entirely possible that that's a different issue entirely.

edit: Turns out it was some software installed alongside freetracknoir. That it was running on startup was odd though, but at least it's resolved. Guess it's on to finding a way to disable it when playing ULiL so I don't have to reinstall whenever I want to play some Elite: Dangerous.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 04, 2015, 12:08:26 AM
Why would there be? It's just a web release of the demo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gilde on May 04, 2015, 12:28:53 AM
Characters feel a lot more polished in general. I actually feel in control of Kasen now, whereas I had no idea what I was doing with her in he first demo - still don't know how to shot Eagle, though.
Using either a regular melee attack or a regular projectile while riding Kanda will trigger the special attack. Melee makes him swoop while still holding Kasen, projectile throws him at the opponent (+ ricochet off any rainbow orbs from Kasen's charged projectile).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on May 04, 2015, 12:42:17 AM
I replayed story mode today to see if there was anyting diferent, i didn't find anything diferrent, i wanted to see if a few of the others were in the game like Mokou, apparently not -_-"

The shadow at the end now activel repells Reimu, so that's something, right? I found it pretty cool at least. I hope she's completely invulnerable all the time. Kasens Spells feel slightly changed, too, but it could just be different difficulties throwing me off.

Tiger still looks pretty 1-frame, but it's really hard to tell in the middle of a fight.

And thanks gilde for the Eagle tips.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 04, 2015, 12:50:29 AM
I little testing and I already find something funny about it.
While you're holding your charge shot, you'll enter what I'd like to call "glide state". In this state, your animation is like the usual left and right movement, but you can actually change altitude, like when opponent use their spellcard in story mode. It provides you with better mobility than your dash, and I'm pretty sure it'll be useful for chasing the occult ball.
Either this is a bug or not, I wouldn't know. It looks weird though  :V
 
As for the rest:
You can no longer do infinite dash, so no more zig-zag movement. I guess this is where Byakuren's Occult came to play, huh
So they chose to just revamped the movesets instead of adding customization in the end, huh. A bit unfortunate, but it's alright. Instead we got denser and more bullet counts.
The charge shot is more like Soku now, and there's a second, more powerful version and probably extra projectiles. The normal charge shot is also available faster, as soon as you start holding the Y button, which makes it faster to use.
Kasen has some new normals (the elbow drill), and animation change for the 6Y.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on May 04, 2015, 01:48:02 AM
First time playing anything ULiL related, and coming from a HM player comboing feels so... clunky.

I've been having a real hard time considering heavy and light attacks are now both together in the same key.  I've been playing Marisa and to be honest the biggest downside for me is how weird it feels to use her dive melee attack ( down + Z in HM).  From what I've understood you have to go up a bit and THEN the skill becomes usable.  Really strange.

You guys got any tips for a HM player trying to adapt?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kaizaki on May 04, 2015, 02:04:35 AM
*Awkwardly continues with the character theory, despite having only a week left, while the rest try out the demo.*

[...] This makes me guess maybe the final boss is that Udonge plant that Kaguya has around her.
Itsuari also considered the possibility that the Occult Balls are the jewels of the Jeweled Branch (i.e. the Udonge plant), thus the plant is fulfilling its mission to sow discord on the earth, and leading the story into LoLK. [...]
Kaguya as the midboss, the Udonge plant as the new character. [...]
The stage-select menu now displays the music titles as well. The default Hakurei Shrine BGM is "Seven-Orb Collection Showdown" (七玉蒐集ショウダウン). [...]
Doesn't the Udonge have seven jewels?

Oh, it has seven-coloured jewels.

I'm not sure the ULiL character will have anything to do with aesthetics. [...]
If it is the plant, then we have wabi-sabi as a possible link.

Thinking about it, having the Jeweled Branch as a plot element partly explains Mokou's participation. Wasn't it the Impossible Request assigned to her father?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on May 04, 2015, 02:22:03 AM
Obviously the seven jewels are the Dragon Balls.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on May 04, 2015, 04:12:43 AM
Anyone having trouble binding gamepad buttons?

I can navigate the menus with POV hat input as well as OK/Cancel with button 1/2, but when I go into the key config, and I select a button to set, the game just soft locks.  No button presses, on my gamepad or on my keyboard, will set anything, and I'm stuck there.

I had this problem with the previous demo as well, so I ended up just using xpadder to override it.  Would like to see if I can fix it now though.

Edit: So, did some more experimentation, and I found that if you hold a button through unfocusing and refocusing the window (like through, say, minimizing and restoring), it will finish the binding process.  For keyboard, you bind correctly, but for gamepad, no matter what I do, the current key binds to -X axis.  So, still stuck.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 04, 2015, 09:25:55 AM
The shadow at the end now activel repells Reimu, so that's something, right? I found it pretty cool at least. I hope she's completely invulnerable all the time. Kasens Spells feel slightly changed, too, but it could just be different difficulties throwing me off.

Tiger still looks pretty 1-frame, but it's really hard to tell in the middle of a fight.

And thanks gilde for the Eagle tips.


Yeah i saw her repelling her which is a neat detail :)

Do any of you guys notice the game has gotten a little bit slower?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 04, 2015, 10:02:57 AM
There's 4 things I can tell when we talk about "game being slower":

1) ground dash/neutral height dash speed
This is nerfed and your grounddash has slower startup, however accelerates.

2) Vertical movement (after jump)
The vertical movement distance is reduced. It might look like you're moving slower, but you only move shorter, not slower.

3) Forward flight/airdash/non neutral dash speed
This is not nerfed. In term of horizontal speed it is pretty much same. However because flight used to move you slightly diagonally (decrease in altitude) it looks like you were faster back then.

4) Instant airdash (IAD)
IAD j5a covers less distance due to your character falling earlier when you do this. (A slight mechanic change) Won't exactly say we're being slower.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 04, 2015, 10:25:12 AM
I feel like the game itself runs slower. Like, the framerate. It's not jagged though, so I was wondering if they just slowed the game down overall.

...or maybe that's just my computer.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on May 04, 2015, 10:45:46 AM
Also, it looks like you can only dash up/down twice before you "rest" at the middle line again.  This is different from before where you could infinitely dash up, down, up, down, etc to zigzag across the battlefield quickly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on May 04, 2015, 11:03:28 AM
At address 00257e16, you will see
Code: [Select]
0f 83 d8 00 00 00change this to
Code: [Select]
e9 d9 00 00 00 90
I don't have NVIDIA, and after this change game now can run with applocale, but still crush, when I go to Story mode/vs Com/vs Player. What I did wrong?

(Sorry for my bad English)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gargamesh on May 04, 2015, 11:11:29 AM
I'm sorry for interrupting the discussion, I am a noob when it comes to techie stuff, and I don't know anything about Hex, can someone go and please link the modified exe. file? I've tried everything and it doesn't even work, and I'm not even using NVidia.

Sorry if I came off as rude in someway.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 04, 2015, 11:14:08 AM
However i seem to be able to perform combos a little bit easier. Also it was a much needed improvement to have the occult attacks at the punch and shoot button. However what are the button combinations for the Occult Last Words?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 04, 2015, 11:51:33 AM
I'm sorry for interrupting the discussion, I am a noob when it comes to techie stuff, and I don't know anything about Hex, can someone go and please link the modified exe. file?
You are welcome! HERE (http://1drv.ms/1DZC7u3)


Even D.N.A. run into problems with th145.exe; he had to make the program an exception in MacType. I look forward to ZUN being unable to launch the game himself.

>music
You can bring up the pause menu during dialog scenes to see the names of dialog themes. The two themes (both by Akiyama) are called:
ボールのある日常 An Everyday Life with Balls
顕現した伝承の形 The Legend's Shape Emerges

Tasofro are unironically masters at naming games and songs.

In other news, the "Seven-Orb Collection Showdown" name caught my attention. Mamizou's fake alien pokeballs are in the shape of gacha capsules. "Gather seven occult balls, and your wish will come true." I'm detecting hints of a thoroughline.

That screenshot really highlights the sameface, doesn't it.
Harukawa has her deficiencies, and these portraits are honestly not her best work. However, "sameface" is not the right criticism for her. She has actually made a valiant effort to make all the named characters' faces and eyes different. Even in this screenshot, Marisa's face appears chubbier than Reimu's.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on May 04, 2015, 12:00:14 PM
Harukawa has her deficiencies, and these portraits are honestly not her best work. However, "sameface" is not the right criticism for her. She has actually made a valiant effort to make every named character's faces and eyes look different. At least in my eyes, a combination of factors make the face of Harukawa's Marisa appear chubbier than Reimu's.
I think the pose is the biggest flaw here. A few characters tilt their head slightly in the exact same way.

Also, Futo looks really great. I like those big blue eyes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gargamesh on May 04, 2015, 12:24:36 PM
Many thanks for the exe, however, it regrettably still doesn't work, I don't know what I did  wrong, I'm using Intel HD Graphics 3000 (yes, I know, it's a toaster), however it was able to run the previous trial released at comiket. *sigh, guess here's just hoping that the full ver. doesn't have this problem.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 04, 2015, 01:15:01 PM
Many thanks for the exe, however, it regrettably still doesn't work, I don't know what I did  wrong, I'm using Intel HD Graphics 3000 (yes, I know, it's a toaster), however it was able to run the previous trial released at comiket. *sigh, guess here's just hoping that the full ver. doesn't have this problem.

Did you modify the contents of the folder in any way? Some other person posted earlier that it broke because they were trying to use their data from the previous trial.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gargamesh on May 04, 2015, 01:46:46 PM
I have not, the contents are the ones from the one I downloaded. Unless of course, you claim that the Mediafire link for the trial one user has posted here is broken, otherwise, I haven't done anything wrong.    ???
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 04, 2015, 01:57:35 PM
Well, that's the one that worked for me, so that rules that out. If you really care, you might want to try hex-editing it yourself (it's not that hard, I'd never done it before either, so I just googled "free hex editor" and did what the post said).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 04, 2015, 01:59:50 PM
I feel like the game itself runs slower. Like, the framerate. It's not jagged though, so I was wondering if they just slowed the game down overall.

...or maybe that's just my computer.

Have you tried changing the last 4 options in the config menu so that they look like this (http://i.imgur.com/pHI9ADn.png)? It's what I did and the game runs buttery smooth now. Several people on 4chan also confirmed an improvement when they used this configuration.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 04, 2015, 02:09:00 PM
I have not, the contents are the ones from the one I downloaded. Unless of course, you claim that the Mediafire link for the trial one user has posted here is broken, otherwise, I haven't done anything wrong.    ???
                 

Did you delete the original trials files and put the new one in the folder where they were? If you did then no problem. Dont overwrite the original files with the new ones.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 04, 2015, 02:32:24 PM
What Manzairaku can do:
https://vine.co/v/eZABmTH7VHv
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 04, 2015, 03:02:06 PM
What Manzairaku can do:
https://vine.co/v/eZABmTH7VHv
I was about to post that as well.

It may be slow and that isn't really practical, but damn if it isn't adorable
(http://livedoor.4.blogimg.jp/coleblog/imgs/2/e/2e47e8f3.gif)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MrNoobomnenie on May 04, 2015, 03:41:25 PM
I was used a new .exe, and Story Mode was launched! But when I beat Marisa, game crushed again, and then stop working. Is that a demo problems, or something wrong with my computer?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Slotheno on May 04, 2015, 07:18:14 PM
Hi everybody, I'm Jonath's friend who uploaded the game.

I decided to reupload it again, this time with the little fix for Nvidia that "mauve" made (aka, the fix cuc posted earlier)


Here's the link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/9n8cznzpe9y8289/th145_trial.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/9n8cznzpe9y8289/th145_trial.rar)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 04, 2015, 07:45:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Jzw4xmO.png)

If anyone ever wanted to know what each option in the config menu of ULiL did, here's something I made out of boredom.

Remember to keep that Vsync off AT ALL TIMES.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 04, 2015, 08:14:16 PM
They use spellcards! Computer in vs mode actually uses spellcards!

Can anyone post controls list? Thanks!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gargamesh on May 04, 2015, 08:38:22 PM
Many thanks for trying to help guys, I've tried putting it in compatibility mode, and it somehow made the exe run... although that's about it, it runs, but the game doesn't actually open. The window appears, but it's all black and instantly closes after 5 seconds.

Oh well, I'm just gonna hope May 10 is going to fix everything.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 04, 2015, 08:50:02 PM
Can anyone post controls list? Thanks!

That would be helpful. I can't figure out what the "S" key do and they're not explaining it on touhou wiki.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tomion on May 04, 2015, 09:11:23 PM
if anyone wonders or can confirm that - the keys for the occult last words are spellcard+heavy attack.
seems to work for me but that's just from a quick vs comp try and dont have too much time to test it further.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: BATMANDANCEPARTY on May 04, 2015, 09:20:05 PM
controls

Z = Melee
X = Shots
C = Special attacks
A = Spell Declaration
S = Dash

[X](hold X) = Charged special Shot
C+A = Occult last word
Double Tap A during a combo = Quick spell declaration (cancels current animation and declares spell)

Oh yeah
Z+X = Occult Attack
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 04, 2015, 09:55:07 PM
Thanks!

So, S is for movement only and D is unused? Also, how to make different melee attacks? I can't understand when Marisa will swing her broom and when she will snap a star to start basic ZZZZ combo.

Charged shots are cool, but really hard to make. Well, that's how it should be)

How many occult balls do you need to perform an attack / last word?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 04, 2015, 09:58:19 PM
So, S is for movement only and D is unused? Also, how to make different melee attacks? I can't understand when Marisa will swing her broom and when she will snap a star to start basic ZZZZ combo.

Range. Jabs only happen at close range.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 04, 2015, 10:36:09 PM
This new demo feels great so far, but I can't help but notice that little added bit to the end of the storymode where the silhouette counters Reimu instead. From the sound effect and color I'm taking a guess that's some form of lightning/electricity magic she used?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 04, 2015, 10:54:42 PM
Range. Jabs only happen at close range.

Thanks!

that's some form of lightning/electricity magic she used?

Probably just some usual explosion. Everyone is capable of that)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: AnOtakuGamer on May 04, 2015, 10:59:18 PM
Oh god that's the best fighting game so far imo.
The occult ball effects don't bother gameplay as SWR/Soku's weather effects, the gameplay doesn't have lots of complex shit like in HM and i can understand what is going on unlike on IaMP.
Totally waiting for the full version
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on May 04, 2015, 11:25:16 PM
From what I saw you can also do jabs in any range with <- Z, but still feels a bit strange to do it. 
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Washy on May 04, 2015, 11:53:10 PM
From what I saw you can also do jabs in any range with <- Z, but still feels a bit strange to do it.
It's mimicking Soku's control scheme, which I prefer more due to the fact that there is a dash button now instead of only double tapping.

However I haven't found any 236x style moves, nor does there seem to be the presence of any deck customization.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on May 05, 2015, 12:55:48 AM
It's mimicking Soku's control scheme, which I prefer more due to the fact that there is a dash button now instead of only double tapping.

However I haven't found any 236x style moves, nor does there seem to be the presence of any deck customization.

Special moves seem to be with the C button now.  Marisa's uppercut for example is 2C now instead of 22X. 
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 05, 2015, 01:15:25 AM
Unlike previous fighting games, the demo only comes with a single user profile. To play two player vs. mode on the same computer, you are better off creating at least a second profile (3rd option in the Profile menu), then assign it a new control setting (1st option in the Profile menu).

To select profiles at the character select screen, press C to open the profile window. In this window, for both players, the 1st option selects a profile, and the 2nd option is control setting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 05, 2015, 03:40:37 PM
Just asking, but has someone already tried extracting the PAK files using Riatre's tools for HM.
Curious~
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Jonath on May 05, 2015, 09:59:48 PM
I don't think so. As I said a bit before, I would be interested as well ^^
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 05, 2015, 10:09:36 PM
Personally i would rather wait until the game is released, because, well there's only 8 days left until we figure out the who, the what and the why about the 15th character and who is the misteryous sillouhete ( by the way excuse my english )
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 05, 2015, 10:17:01 PM
Yes, let's just wait, guys. Just a few days to go. :)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 05, 2015, 10:34:48 PM
Also has someone already been assigned to translation Urban Legend in Limbo yet?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 05, 2015, 11:34:35 PM
Also has someone already been assigned to translation Urban Legend in Limbo yet?

Well, lots of people will (hopefully) try and help to translate the game.  :derp:
The hype is killing me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: shockdude on May 05, 2015, 11:50:37 PM
Just asking, but has someone already tried extracting the PAK files using Riatre's tools for HM.
Curious~
Riatre's th135arc doesn't seem to do anything with th145.pak.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 06, 2015, 12:27:14 AM
Also has someone already been assigned to translation Urban Legend in Limbo yet?

No one gets "assigned" to translating anything unless they're getting paid. Please have a little more respect for our translators than this.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 06, 2015, 01:21:08 AM
Also has someone already been assigned to translation Urban Legend in Limbo yet?
No one, but brliron did say after HM's english patch release that he's interested in tackling ULiL as well, if the data management in the game works the same way.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 06, 2015, 01:33:46 AM
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but I'm pretty sure Reimu starts with an Occult Orb in the new demo... And I don't think she talks to Marisa about mushrooms either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 06, 2015, 01:46:37 AM
and here the thread moves into translator burnout reason #1: "it's not even out yet, but who's translating it???!?"

I've seen some people do that so long I'd think they'd be better off just learning basic Japanese because it's not really that hard...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on May 06, 2015, 01:53:09 AM
I've seen some people do that so long I'd think they'd be better off just learning basic Japanese because it's not really that hard...

That's pretty much why I took the whole DoD thing into my own hands, because otherwise people were probably not going to give that a shot until there was some form of a patch, and it's also why I just decided to play the other Strawberry Bose games in Japanese, since I have enough game-related Japanese knowledge to carry me through.

On that note, yeah, it's kinda rude to ask if someone's "assigned" to a translation job. For something like Touhou, translation work's sort of a thankless job that translators use their free time on. I think some people forget that, but I've been around some of the more recent translation projects enough to know that it really is a lot of work that people are doing. For nothing in return. Normally people get paid for this. Just think about it like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 06, 2015, 01:59:46 AM
I got some real stories about the translations for SWR/Soku. There's real reasons they took awhile, and not just because I absolutely hated working on them, because the hacking was finished long before the TL itself was 'cause I wanted to get them over with and move on.

I had actually done preliminary work on Hopeless before deciding that I did not want to go through that for a game I wasn't interested in yet again.

Outside of the big official ones, mostly my choice of games to work on was very much "This is cool, I want more people to play this." see also Maristice. Disappointed I never got to push out a Daiundousai translation...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 06, 2015, 02:04:58 AM
Looking at it again, the new demo also changes how occult spell cards work in story too. Before you had to touch the orb to fill the meter around it like you would chasing it around. Now you just have to touch it enough to reduce the meter at the top of the screen to 0.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on May 06, 2015, 02:22:32 AM
I remember reading your readme on the tools for SWR and Soku. I could feel the agony in those words and can only imagine how difficult it was to actually hack into. @_@;
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on May 06, 2015, 03:02:44 AM
This is 100% the reason why basically all of my programming projects have had some sort of "make translation easy" thing going on ...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 06, 2015, 10:25:49 AM
After playing quite a bit, I have to say: they made huge AI improvement. Compter's moves actually make sence now, they use spellcards, and overall it's more interesting to play vs com. In HM, hard com was nothing. Here, hard is... well, hard. Thank you, Tasofro)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 06, 2015, 11:12:44 AM
No one gets "assigned" to translating anything unless they're getting paid. Please have a little more respect for our translators than this.

Sorry sometimes i pharase things in somewhat incorrent manners, sorry.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: N-Forza on May 06, 2015, 01:33:24 PM
I would love to focus more time on the translations but between my real job and my side business, that doesn't leave me with a lot of extra time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on May 06, 2015, 02:26:03 PM
After playing quite a bit, I have to say: they made huge AI improvement. Compter's moves actually make sence now, they use spellcards, and overall it's more interesting to play vs com. In HM, hard com was nothing. Here, hard is... well, hard. Thank you, Tasofro)
Lunatic AI is good. But, sometimes when I corner them they just won't attack...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 06, 2015, 02:35:48 PM
Lunatic AI is good. But, sometimes when I corner them they just won't attack...

I've seen that quite a bit with Kasen's AI, though the Lunatic Reimu AI sometimes just destroys in the corner if you ler her.

Does anyone know what the laser effect that can appear with the occult ball does? I'm fairly convinced it does nothing, the rest I already have a good grasp of what they do. I'm glad though that I haven't seen too much interruption regarding the occult balls unlike some of SWR/Soku's weather effects. Very much looking forward to the full game.

Oh, and me and a friend tested the current network mode. While we had a bit of latency issues ( mostly one of our faults most likely ), we didn't have any issues with desynch that we'd sometimes get with HM, even for a demo it feels like the network play has improved.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 06, 2015, 03:28:19 PM
From the wiki:

The 7 Mystery Spot effects are:

Pyramids: Both players' Occult Attacks are at max power.
Stonehenge: The stage's left/right walls narrow.
Tower of Babel: Touching the Occult Ball's capture field briefly turns it into a projectile that can hit the opponent.
Yomotsu Hirasaka: Steadily turns both players' life bars white faster the closer they are to the center of the stage. White life counts as damage but when the Mystery Spot ends it turns back into normal health. Large Occult Ball capture field.
Nazca Lines: Touching the Occult Ball's capture field restores a small amount of life and 100 spell power.
Hell Valley: Fogs the bottom of the screen and slowly damages players in that area.
Lunar Capital: Slows down most projectile attacks.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 06, 2015, 06:48:24 PM
For the record, the laser triangle in the background gives the Pyramids effect (occult attack max level). No idea in hell how it should quality as pyramids though. Could there be a mistranslation?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 06, 2015, 09:53:46 PM
Looking at it again, the new demo also changes how occult spell cards work in story too. Before you had to touch the orb to fill the meter around it like you would chasing it around. Now you just have to touch it enough to reduce the meter at the top of the screen to 0.

This in my opinion is one of the many things that Urban Legend in Limbo has improved upon from the early demo, before it was monotonous to actually do any sort of damage in the Occult Spellcards, but now its pretty straightforward like it was breaking spellcards in Hisoutensoku. It seems Twilight Frontier also improved the controls, at least to me it feels different in a positive way. On the topic of art, Reimu looks adorable <3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 07, 2015, 01:15:58 AM
For the record, the laser triangle in the background gives the Pyramids effect (occult attack max level). No idea in hell how it should quality as pyramids though. Could there be a mistranslation?
In the mathematical definition, anything with a "polygon base" and "triangular sides that meet in a vortex" is a pyramid.

Representation-wise, a square with two diagonals would just look like a cross at the center, and a square at the edges. What it wouldn't look like is a pyramid. I'm not sure a different representation would look cooler - the current effect does get that sense of pseudosecientific energy nailed.

Then there's also Keine's first spell card:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Spell_Cards/Stage_3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 07, 2015, 01:23:15 AM
Oh, is that what each location does? None of them seem too annoying except for Stonehenge and maybe Lunar Capital. But I don't think anything will be as annoying as River Mist...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 07, 2015, 04:20:43 AM
Having played the web trial, finally (and netplay, too, which was surprisingly good if not for the fact that I manage to have 30~ FPS... local, even!), I can safely say that I am incredibly hyped for Urban Legend in Limbo. It feels like an improvement over HM to me and all of the mechanics aren't too bad and pretty fun. The timer issue is no longer a concern of mine because occult orbs appear so frequently it's fine, really.

Anyway, I love it. Can't wait for the full game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tomion on May 07, 2015, 07:41:15 AM
I know all the places of the occults effects except Nazca Lines and Yomotsu Hirasaka.
Anyone know something about these?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on May 07, 2015, 07:44:08 AM
I know about the Nazca lines. Basically there's a region in South America (I think in Peru or close by) where there are these flat plains. When viewed from above, there are lines literally carved into the ground which make large pictographs. No one's really sure who made them or why, but they're apparently very old and subject to the whole "ancient astronomers" theory.

Edit: On research, the Yomotsu Hirasaka is the slope leading to the underworld, which Izanagi traveled through to retrieve Izanami.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 07, 2015, 03:38:26 PM
The cool thing about the Nazca lines is that no one even realized they were there until airplanes started flying over the area. So whoever made them was drawing pictures that they wouldn't even be able to see. It's one of those "wonders of the ancient world" kinda things, like Stonehenge.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tomion on May 07, 2015, 03:54:45 PM
after a small wiki lookup I actually knew these but not the name XD
these are really cool actually.
and aaaah I should've known considering I played P4 and that made me interested in japanese folklore much more >W<
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 07, 2015, 04:41:43 PM
I'm pretty sure Yomotsu Hirasaka is actually the name of P4's final dungeon, so you really should have known that one.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on May 07, 2015, 04:46:08 PM
I'm pretty sure Yomotsu Hirasaka is actually the name of P4's final dungeon, so you really should have known that one.
Wasn't Yomotsu Hirasaka the name of the way that lead into the netherworld / yomi that Izanagi passed through to go take his wife back in japanese folklore ?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 07, 2015, 05:14:16 PM
Wasn't Yomotsu Hirasaka the name of the way that lead into the netherworld / yomi that Izanagi passed through to go take his wife back in japanese folklore ?

Yes, which is why it's the name of the final dungeon in P4.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tomion on May 07, 2015, 06:43:49 PM
last I played P4 was a loooooooooooooong time ago so I just had a familiar feeling that I've seen the name before.
still kinda confused about Nazca's effect..doesnt seems to be fitting for the area.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 07, 2015, 07:08:22 PM
Yomotsu Hirasaka: Steadily turns both players' life bars white faster the closer they are to the center of the stage. White life counts as damage but when the Mystery Spot ends it turns back into normal health. Large Occult Ball capture field.

What's the point of this occult effect if the health from both parties will be recovered after the effect?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 07, 2015, 07:15:25 PM
My guess would be that if one player is already hurt they might be in danger of instantly losing by being hit while at low effective health. Thereby forcing them to play more cautiously while the effect is going on.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 07, 2015, 07:18:54 PM
What's the point of this occult effect if the health from both parties will be recovered after the effect?
I'm guessing the point is that it's easier to KO the opponent while the Mystery Spot is in effect. If you can keep your opponent close to the center of the stage and unload attacks it would be advantageous.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 07, 2015, 07:25:46 PM
It may not be as effective now, but I remember that back in the first demo it can suck away your full health in seconds.
As explained by the others, it's purpose is to make a pseudo sudden death match, which forces you to either be defensive or go in for a counterattack. I quite like it, but since it's not as deadly now, you won't need to be too cautious.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 07, 2015, 07:59:01 PM
Idk if that's how it should be, but while Yomotsu Hirasaka is in effect, all damage turns life white. When Mystery Spot ends, all damage dealt heals, including damage dealt by players. In other words, it's pointless attacking, you should chase the ball instead. Or just Master Spark your opponent, but that always works)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 08, 2015, 12:36:01 AM
I know all the places of the occults effects except Nazca Lines and Yomotsu Hirasaka.
Anyone know something about these?
The funniest one is Hell Valley (Jigokudani), because according to wikipedia, there are at least FOUR tourist attractions called "Hell Valley" in Japan. The Hokkaido one (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9C%B0%E7%8D%84%E8%B0%B7) is a large volcanic crater, and the Nagano one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigokudani_Monkey_Park) is a geyser zone famous for monkeys bathing in hot springs. The Toyama one (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9C%B0%E7%8D%84%E8%B0%B7%E6%B8%A9%E6%B3%89_%28%E5%AF%8C%E5%B1%B1%E7%9C%8C%29) is notable for recent (http://www.ettoday.net/news/20141126/430853.htm) volcanic activities, such as outpouring of volcanic gases. There's a fourth one, but it apparently isn't important enough to warrant a wikipedia entry.

Considering the Hell Valley mystery spot is themed on volcanic gases, it may be a reference to the Toyama Jigokudani, but the more famous Hokkaido Jigokudani also emits volcanic gases.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 08, 2015, 01:21:37 AM
After playing quite a bit, I have to say: they made huge AI improvement. Compter's moves actually make sence now, they use spellcards, and overall it's more interesting to play vs com. In HM, hard com was nothing. Here, hard is... well, hard. Thank you, Tasofro)
This is mostly because there's no more custom decks. Whenever customization is involved, Tasofro doesn't know how to program the AI to use that specific deck you assign them, so they usually just...not use them at all. Now that every character has a set moveset, it's much easier for them to program them to use that since it never changes. I'm actually surprised they also adapt to the spell cards you choose for them as well.

Anyways, I made a quick simple combo video for Reimu after playing around with her for a day. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LadMqLq3EM) I really like her atm. However, I still plan on using Koishi in the end even if it kills me :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 08, 2015, 01:30:18 AM
Quote
Anyways, I made a quick simple combo video for Reimu after playing around with her for a day.

Oh yeah, you can just activate your spell card to cut out ending lag. That's going to take a bit to get adjusted since HM trained me to use spell cards asap or risk not being popular,,,
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on May 08, 2015, 01:56:36 AM
Anyways, I made a quick simple combo video for Reimu after playing around with her for a day. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LadMqLq3EM) I really like her atm. However, I still plan on using Koishi in the end even if it kills me :V
Doing combos in this game just looks and feels really satisfying. Nearly everything combos into something.

Can't wait to do this with Futo!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 08, 2015, 03:47:06 AM
I can't remember if this was mentioned or noticed, but Mokou's gimmick seems similar to the Yomotsu Hirasaka effect. She takes white damage when she does a melee attack that turns blue whenever she resurrects.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on May 08, 2015, 05:11:23 AM
Did Reimu lose her ability to set the end point for her warp, or did I just forget the input?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 08, 2015, 05:32:06 AM
Quote
Did Reimu lose her ability to set the end point for her warp, or did I just forget the input?

No, she just teleports and kicks now, no warp point required.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 08, 2015, 07:30:15 AM
This is mostly because there's no more custom decks. Whenever customization is involved, Tasofro doesn't know how to program the AI to use that specific deck you assign them, so they usually just...not use them at all. Now that every character has a set moveset, it's much easier for them to program them to use that since it never changes. I'm actually surprised they also adapt to the spell cards you choose for them as well.
Still, they're now awfully weak to charge shots, and never uses their occult attacks. All in all, they're still a fairly decent moving dummy.
Though I like that they seem to have a sense to chase the occult ball, or at least prevent you from getting it.

Anyways, I made a quick simple combo video for Reimu after playing around with her for a day. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LadMqLq3EM) I really like her atm. However, I still plan on using Koishi in the end even if it kills me :V
But what about Kasen?  :ohdear:

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 08, 2015, 07:43:22 AM
Quote
Though I like that they seem to have a sense to chase the occult ball, or at least prevent you from getting it.

I've noticed that, if anything I feel like they get more aggressive when an occult ball is out to stop you from getting it. But I wonder if they were to get 4 (or maybe 7) if they would try using their last words?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 08, 2015, 01:19:21 PM
I've noticed that, if anything I feel like they get more aggressive when an occult ball is out to stop you from getting it. But I wonder if they were to get 4 (or maybe 7) if they would try using their last words?

They don't use it, at least with 4, 5 and 6 balls. Maybe they will in the full game though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 08, 2015, 05:03:36 PM
I really hope they let us set a different single button for last words in the full version. In the heat of battle I have a really hard time pressing two buttons at the same time...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tomion on May 08, 2015, 07:00:17 PM
I really hope they let us set a different single button for last words in the full version. In the heat of battle I have a really hard time pressing two buttons at the same time...
isnt that the same as pressing an attack and an arrow direction?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 08, 2015, 07:26:53 PM
It is different, you can hold the arrow and then press the attack anytime later.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 08, 2015, 07:47:20 PM
Quote
isnt that the same as pressing an attack and an arrow direction?
For me it's more that last words require multiple button presses with the same hand. I tend to get my fingers tangled up and since I use my pinky for z and a, it's a bit confusing to get both my pinky and index finger to get to two different buttons and hit them at the same time. I usually end up doing a strong bullet or activating my normal spell card...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 09, 2015, 02:45:13 AM
Meanwhile, Marisa's Master Spark damage output is really dumb (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4FEJI2Zms)

You could probably find some easy kill combos with it but I'm too lazy to explore anymore with her atm.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 09, 2015, 02:53:10 AM
I just realized that the release date is John Wilkes Booth's birthday.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 09, 2015, 07:25:48 AM
Meanwhile, Marisa's Master Spark damage output is really dumb (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4FEJI2Zms)

You could probably find some easy kill combos with it but I'm too lazy to explore anymore with her atm.

Well, MS costs 1500 spell points and is easily avoidable if done wrong. Also, it has a blind spot directly in front of Marisa. And finally, it is Master Spark)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 09, 2015, 08:12:12 AM
Well, if a Spellcard misses then you're certainly doing it wrong. I doubt anyone would fire a Master Spark without assuring that it will land.

Anyway, I made a cheapass, lazy combo for Marisa (http://youtu.be/RHGxlVEB9_0). Pardon the video quality. Probably due to wrong settings
Not quite a 10k, but close, and arguably the easiest one I've did. Maybe possible with piano, but I'm still not used with it.

However, the point of that video is to show how cheap Marisa's 4C is.
It has very high proration (a measly 5% reduce), NO stun rate, and you can chain it up to 5 times by timing the button presses. Though 4 is enough, since you need 1 spirit gauge for your follow-up BnB combos. It also connects from a jA, though spamming the 4C too much will limit the enemy after the j2A, so no MS.

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on May 09, 2015, 08:20:55 AM
However, the point of that video is to show how cheap Marisa's 4C is.
It has very high proration (a measly 5% reduce), NO stun rate, and you can chain it up to 5 times by timing the button presses. Though 4 is enough, since you need 1 spirit gauge for your follow-up BnB combos. It also connects from a jA, though spamming the 4C too much will limit the enemy after the j2A, so no MS.
...What were they thinking?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on May 09, 2015, 12:59:38 PM
Not long now guys until a new era of Touhou fighting is among us. Not long now until release day!  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on May 09, 2015, 03:25:40 PM
Meanwhile, Marisa's Master Spark damage output is really dumb (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4FEJI2Zms)

You could probably find some easy kill combos with it but I'm too lazy to explore anymore with her atm.

Just found one.  It probably won't ever be used in actual play.  You use Marisa's charged shot (X I guess?) from afar, and then dash towards the opponent while the blast flies.  When it hits them you wait for the wallslam, then combo like the one you've done in your video but without the first hit on air. 

When testing with characters with full health though, I've noticed that sometimes this combo actually doesn't make a 100% kill, but instead leaves the person with, let's say, 99%?  Low enough hp that a single Z jab kills them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 09, 2015, 03:50:22 PM
Marisa's overcharged shot consists of pure win and awesomeness. Not only it deals huge damage and leaves projectile trail, it deals damage slowly and you can actually strike opponents while they are being hit and locked.

Unrelated, are there any guard crushing moves? How to use them?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on May 09, 2015, 05:29:22 PM
Well, if a Spellcard misses then you're certainly doing it wrong. I doubt anyone would fire a Master Spark without assuring that it will land.

Anyway, I made a cheapass, lazy combo for Marisa (http://youtu.be/RHGxlVEB9_0). Pardon the video quality. Probably due to wrong settings
Not quite a 10k, but close, and arguably the easiest one I've did. Maybe possible with piano, but I'm still not used with it.

However, the point of that video is to show how cheap Marisa's 4C is.
It has very high proration (a measly 5% reduce), NO stun rate, and you can chain it up to 5 times by timing the button presses. Though 4 is enough, since you need 1 spirit gauge for your follow-up BnB combos. It also connects from a jA, though spamming the 4C too much will limit the enemy after the j2A, so no MS.

I like how ZUN is starting to implement more shooter elements into the fighters. Like Marisa being bugged/OP.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 09, 2015, 05:31:47 PM
I like how ZUN is starting to implement more shooter elements into the fighters. Like Marisa being bugged/OP.

Well Marisa's fighting style is Danmaku is power so it's only natural.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 09, 2015, 06:00:26 PM
HM is like the only Touhou vs where Marisa isn't really good...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 09, 2015, 07:27:03 PM
HM is like the only Touhou vs where Marisa isn't really good...


Actually, she is high/top tier in HM's latest patch. She's up there with Mamizou, Kokoro, and Ichirin.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 09, 2015, 07:36:25 PM
Actually, she is high/top tier in HM's latest patch. She's up there with Mamizou, Kokoro, and Ichirin.
That's what I get for not keeping up, then! Marisa is thus always high tier.

In IaMP she had the bonus of being both top tier and The Remilia Killer, only having slight trouble with Sakuya. There was a joke going around with HM that her feet were too strong, so she wasn't allowed to use them in fights anymore.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 09, 2015, 07:43:58 PM
Ehh she wasn't that impressive in soku if we exclude the advantage of being easy to learn/pick up.  ;)

Aaaand brace yourself the game is coming in less than 12 hours !
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: BATMANDANCEPARTY on May 09, 2015, 08:14:34 PM
Hype train a rollin'

Cheers to the very near future 
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 09, 2015, 08:20:13 PM
Aaaand brace yourself the game is coming in less than 12 hours !
[HYPE INTENSIFIES]

I wonder who this mysterious new boss is going to be.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 09, 2015, 09:45:07 PM
I thought it was coming out in May 12 x surprised emoticon which i don't know how to do x

But all the more better!!!

Finally we shall find out who is ? ? ? and who is the hidden 15th character!

It's strange it's like the game was just anounced yestarday... time really flies.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Giratina93 on May 09, 2015, 09:53:26 PM
It does feel like yesterday when this was announced. Man, time flies when your schedule's all filled up with finals and watching the demo gameplay  :V

Can't wait to hear those new remixed themes, as well as whatever new theme(s) come out for our new characters.

This hype train... has no breaks.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on May 09, 2015, 10:00:31 PM
Can't believe it's been two years since HM and about nine hours until ULiL... yer all sure you don't want to throw a last guess about the 15th character ? a character whose theme would fit Cool & Create's style...

The hype train's engines are going to explode at this rate
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin on May 09, 2015, 10:09:58 PM
I thought it was coming out in May 10 x surprised emoticon which i don't know how to do x

But all the more better!!!

Finally we shall find out who is ? ? ? and who is the hidden 15th character!

It's strange it's like the game was just anounced yestarday... time really flies.
Well, this very minute it's 7 in the morning on May 10 in Japan, so ...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 09, 2015, 10:18:53 PM
What time does Reiteisai start I wonder?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 09, 2015, 10:19:04 PM
At which time is Reiteisai, because i'm sort of new to the schedule.

Well in terms of the 15th character, to me it's one of these:

Kaguya
Nue
Kogasa
Yukari
Sanae
Kanako
Orin
Kagerou

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 09, 2015, 10:23:53 PM
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20150510T1030&p0=248&fg1=ff605a&fg2=ff605a&msg=Reitaisai&csz=1

IT'S THE FIIIINAAAAL COUNTDOOOWN
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on May 09, 2015, 10:37:27 PM
I'm convinced it's either Seija or Nue. On the other hand I think there's a lot of evidence for the final boss being the Udonge plant, and if that's the case than I'd guess the midboss is Kaguya.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 09, 2015, 10:51:38 PM
There's a downloadable update on their site, is that for the game or for the demo?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 09, 2015, 10:52:45 PM
It's for the full game and it shouldn't be applied to the trial version.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 09, 2015, 10:57:15 PM
I'm convinced it's either Seija or Nue. On the other hand I think there's a lot of evidence for the final boss being the Udonge plant, and if that's the case than I'd guess the midboss is Kaguya.

What is the Udonge Plant?

Also about Seija the only way she might not appear because of her opposite personality, a lot of the heavy's of Gensokyo use Urban Legends and want to use them, right? Seija, while others think it's cool, Seija thinks it's lame and will not use them.

That is unless something else happens that makes the heroine's want to stop the Urban Legends. At which case Seija will try to stop the heroine's, however that is quite unlikely as people like Koishi, Nitori and Shinmyoumaru probably won't want to do that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: nyttyn on May 09, 2015, 11:29:07 PM
I think it's more likely to be a flat out new character than a returning vet, honestly. Cool & Create was probably just that one album that got mentioned.

Insofar as whom the 15th slot might be, though, my fringe guess's on Motoori. Not entirely all new, but I think she'd be the most likely 'mid-boss' as well as instigator of the incident, having obtained books of urban legends from the outside world. She could use her books to fight, summoning youkai puppeteer-style. Perhaps a bit of a stretch.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 09, 2015, 11:57:20 PM
Sorry folks, none of the reliable people can verify the Cool & Create rumor. It seems highly unlikely now.

There was a joke going around with HM that her feet were too strong, so she wasn't allowed to use them in fights anymore.
But Marisa can still butt people with her bottom, which I think most would agree is what matters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on May 10, 2015, 12:09:52 AM
Lol I never knew I had 12 hours of difference with Japan :P
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: MewMewHeart on May 10, 2015, 12:18:37 AM
BUT I'M NOT READY FOR IT YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!  :colonveeplusalpha:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on May 10, 2015, 12:21:08 AM
BUT I'M NOT READY FOR IT YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!  :colonveeplusalpha:
You must always be ready my friend. :P
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plastic Vortex on May 10, 2015, 12:23:15 AM
As a GMT+8 person. It's gonna be here soon. ^^

Too bad I have a school trip today. Oh well.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 10, 2015, 12:31:04 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/lmTXYHF.jpg)

Unabara tweeted (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/597193490838130689): the 1.01 patch has added an auto-updater to the game. This is a new attempt for them.

The discs. (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/597192113575440384)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 10, 2015, 12:31:46 AM
One hour seems so long >_<
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on May 10, 2015, 12:35:16 AM
UGH, I JUST CAN'T CONTAIN MY HYPE!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 10, 2015, 12:40:14 AM
Actually, she is high/top tier in HM's latest patch. She's up there with Mamizou, Kokoro, and Ichirin.

Which tier lists? Is it the western one?
Last one I remember from a Japanese veteran was Kokoro on top, followed closely by a tie between Byakuren and Mamizou. Then Ichirin, below that Marisa, then Futo, Reimu and Nitori.
Though this is just opinion. Miko and Koishi got lower tiers, since not many can utilize them well.

Still, though Marisa wasn't high tiers, her range, dense and fast bullets, and high damage output have always been there as her main points.
I just think that some changes this time in ULiL can use some nerfing.

But Marisa can still butt people with her bottom, which I think most people would agree is what matters.

Her butt is more useful now, compared to her other normals, which is saying a lot.



The discs. (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/597192113575440384)

Whoa, whoa. Different silhouette? So the previous one wasn't the last boss?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 10, 2015, 12:41:07 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/lmTXYHF.jpg)

Unabara tweeted (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/597193490838130689): the 1.01 patch has added an auto-updater to the game. This is a new attempt for them.

The discs. (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/597192113575440384)
Okay I just realized this but on the game's disc cover, does the silhouette look different to you or is it just me? Like, MUCH more different?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 10, 2015, 12:44:16 AM
Okay I just realized this but on the game's disc cover, does the silhouette look different to you or is it just me? Like, MUCH more different?
Hmm... Doesn't look too different for me.

Also, dat Mokou.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2015, 12:48:26 AM
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:Th145front.jpg

Looks the same to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 10, 2015, 12:49:01 AM
Okay I just realized this but on the game's disc cover, does the silhouette look different to you or is it just me? Like, MUCH more different?
No, I noticed that right away.
This one has wide sleeves, and bubble skirt like Kokoro.
Any idea who has those among the veterans?
Kaguya has the sleeves, but certainly not the skirt. And I don't remember anyone other than Kokoro having that.

Is it really a new character?

EDIT:
Ah, stupid me. I saw it flipped 90 degrees :v
Nope, nevermind. Same silhouette
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 10, 2015, 12:50:26 AM
No, I noticed that right away.
This one has wide sleeves, and bubble skirt like Kokoro.
Any idea who has those among the veterans?
Kaguya has the sleeves, but certainly not the skirt. And I don't remember anyone other than Kokoro having that.

Is it really a new character?
Well, I just realized I was looking at it from the wrong angle but that looks eerily a lot like a character design, weird...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Metaflare on May 10, 2015, 12:54:32 AM
It's the exact same silhouette you guys
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 10, 2015, 01:05:28 AM
Which tier lists? Is it the western one?
Last one I remember from a Japanese veteran was Kokoro on top, followed closely by a tie between Byakuren and Mamizou. Then Ichirin, below that Marisa, then Futo, Reimu and Nitori.
Though this is just opinion. Miko and Koishi got lower tiers, since not many can utilize them well.
Yeah the western guys (aka #shinkirou) all agree Marisa is top tier. Her damage output, dense bullets, mobility, and partly her placements in the JP tourneys made up believe she's high or top. Her 5a also had quite a bit of reach.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on May 10, 2015, 01:06:02 AM
Yeah, it doesn't look any different. It's probably just the angle of the picture that makes it seem different.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 10, 2015, 01:58:44 AM
Live stream of the Full ULiL Story Mode (http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv220719979?ref=ser&zroute=search&keyword=%E6%B7%B1%E7%A7%98%E9%8C%B2)

That's all I'll put here this time.
Meanwhile, I'm going to my church, so enjoy yourselves. Hopefully I won't be too distracted until I return home

If you missed it, the story mode of demo became the prologue and that is unchanged. Then after that you do each character story mode, starting with Reimu and Marisa, then Kasen.

Shrine destroyed again :V
Yeah. That is something that HM didn't have.

WTF!!!??
USAMI Not-RENKO
Bait
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 02:11:54 AM
宇佐見菫子 Usami Sumireko.
念力「サイコプロージョン」 (Psychokinesis "Psychoplosion")
念力 「テレキネシス 不法投棄 」 (Psychokinesis "Telekinesis - Unlawful Dumping")
「現し世のオカルティシャン」 ("Present-World Occultist")
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 10, 2015, 02:14:18 AM
Usami Sumireko.
Hahaha, they were just so noisy there, I misheard it.
Still, this is too much. Damn that stage is cool

That doesn't mean they're not related, especially seeing the design and same family name

Also, no 15th fighter. It is for a Random button.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on May 10, 2015, 02:19:21 AM
That was a pretty awesome cape!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 02:19:42 AM
Yeah that much is pretty obvious, even supposing it will never be explicitly said anywhere


Also, confirmed random slot roflllllllll get wrecked hopefuls

To copy from last page:
宇佐見菫子 Usami Sumireko.
念力「サイコプロージョン」 (Psychokinesis "Psychoplosion")
念力 「テレキネシス 不法投棄 」 (Psychokinesis "Telekinesis - Unlawful Dumping")
「現し世のオカルティシャン」 ("Present-World Occultist")
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 10, 2015, 02:26:58 AM
Yeah that much is pretty obvious, even supposing it will never be explicitly said anywhere


Also, confirmed random slot roflllllllll get wrecked hopefuls

She looks like your average witch, but her ability rolls around telekinesis or mind power(Esper?). The ending can't be shown for now, so it'll be something to look forward to later. Though 5 stages is a bit short....
And it'll probably be made more clear in her final story mode anyway.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 10, 2015, 02:27:09 AM
Okay, were it not for the awesome final stage and theme, this is pretty much an all-around disappointment for me  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Giratina93 on May 10, 2015, 02:28:37 AM
SO wait... if that's Renko in the FABULOUS cape and magical powers... then what the heck happened to Maribel? Hopefully translations of the text can reveal a bit of that  :V

And random battler: Destroyer of dreams and hopes. 
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 02:31:09 AM
It isn't Renko. Reminder that Gensokyo matches with the present day, while Sealing Club is in the future
really liking sumireko's theme

volcano kick jesus christ
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: utsuho on May 10, 2015, 02:39:19 AM
It isn't Renko. Reminder that Gensokyo matches with the present day, while Sealing Club is in the future

She's probably her mother or older sister. Kind of hoping for mother, we already have plenty of sisters
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 02:41:18 AM
Sumireko's title says she's the first president of the Sealing Club. Oh baby.

Also, the inside of her cape is covered in runes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2015, 02:42:19 AM
Link to the current stream please?  Can't seem to find it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on May 10, 2015, 02:42:50 AM
Sumireko's title says she's the first president of the Sealing Club. Oh baby.

Also, the inside of her cape is covered in runes.

And the design makes more sense knowing that's what it's supposed to be.  The whole thing was shining brightly during the fight.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 10, 2015, 02:46:57 AM
Anyone got a pic of the new character yet?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: zero_breaker on May 10, 2015, 02:49:19 AM
Anyone got a pic of the new character yet?
Just a quick screencap
(http://i.prntscr.com/df24abab59f6434f849908143bc327e5.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 10, 2015, 02:51:16 AM
Anyone got a pic of the new character yet?

http://imgur.com/qUE76fe
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: The Dratini Farmer on May 10, 2015, 02:52:32 AM
[This is a really interesting development. I wonder if that means more stories about them are on the horizon.]
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 10, 2015, 02:53:27 AM
Link to the current stream please?  Can't seem to find it.
Just refresh this page again and again.
http://live.nicovideo.jp/search?keyword=深秘録
The stream is only 30 minutes each time, so you have to look for them frequently.

Well, I have my fill to satisfy the hype, next is waiting for Byakuren and the others.



Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 02:54:53 AM
Cool, she's holding Zener cards which go with her psychic/ESP theme.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shizzo on May 10, 2015, 02:55:19 AM
Just refresh this page again and again.http://.ive.nicovideo.jp/search?keyword=深秘録
The stream is only 30 minutes each time, so you have to look for them frequently.

Well, I have my fill to satisfy the hype, next is waiting for Byakuren and the others.
Thank you! 

On a sidenote, someone in 4chan is posting pictures of LoLK's character select. 

sadly I've to say that it feels like Zun's artstyle's quality is slightly decreasing with Reimu.  Marisa looks cute though!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fulisha of Light on May 10, 2015, 03:01:26 AM
http://imgur.com/qUE76fe

Thank you~
Is that perhaps a new member of the Sealing Club?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on May 10, 2015, 03:02:33 AM
I actually realized that some of the runes on her cloak resemble the ones in SaGa Frontier.  Couldn't name individual ones that match up, but they do look familiar.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 10, 2015, 03:08:07 AM
宇佐見菫子 Usami Sumireko.
念力「サイコプロージョン」 (Psychokinesis "Psychoplosion")
念力 「テレキネシス 不法投棄 」 (Psychokinesis "Telekinesis - Unlawful Dumping")
「現し世のオカルティシャン」 ("Present-World Occultist")

Guys, about all that...

I ran the name of our "final boss" through a translator, and as I suspected, her first name means "violet child". That's going to throw up serious Renko x Maribel signs all over the place, since it could be speculated that this girl could maybe be from the future and is the future kid of Renko and Maribel. And the fact that she's the first president of the Sealing Club could just be her(knowingly or not) creating a Stable Time Loop, laying the tracks for Renko and Maribel in the future by forming the club in the first place...

It's only something that I'm throwing out there, and if the dialogue contradicts it, I won't be surprised. Still, until that point...

Also, she has skulls floating around her, which does not help(it is said somewhere that the Sealing Club is a group of necromancers), so there's that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 10, 2015, 03:12:06 AM
more likely she's just violet because it's a yukari allusion
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Validon98 on May 10, 2015, 03:13:57 AM
To be honest, I wasn't expecting a traditional Western-style occultist as the new character, despite this game being about the occult in general, neither did I expect the Sealing Club to be related to this somehow. So does that mean that there was a Sealing Club before Renko and Maribel formed it in their time, or did they get inspired by Sumireko, or... damn, this is a bit of a twist on what I figured would be the case in all of this.

Still, a psychic/occultist, this is a pretty interesting addition. I'm interested in seeing what the translated story will be. Sadly not watching the stream at the moment, but still, I'm interesting in seeing what this is about.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 03:14:30 AM
I actually realized that some of the runes on her cloak resemble the ones in SaGa Frontier.  Couldn't name individual ones that match up, but they do look familiar.

Which ones? They mostly look like Celtic runes to me. Also, I spy a hexagram or Star of David. Combined with the Zener cards I mentioned earlier and that she uses ESP, Sumireko appears to have a Western feel to her (despite the name). Fits rather well with Maribel, don't you think?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on May 10, 2015, 03:18:40 AM
Which ones? They mostly look like Celtic runes to me. Also, I spy a hexagram or Star of David. Combined with the Zener cards I mentioned earlier and that she uses ESP, Sumireko appears to have a Western feel to her (despite the name). Fits rather well with Maribel, don't you think?

I can't say for sure, since I just recognize them but don't know what they mean...that and I usually do the Arcane quest in SaGa Frontier instead.  But it wouldn't surprise me if they were Celtic runes.

A western theme like Maribel would fit really well...she already shares a surname with Renko, this makes her connect to the other Sealing Club member we knew of before her!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 10, 2015, 03:25:39 AM
I'm sure someone's going to upload the stream to YouTube sooner than we all think...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Skullbelly on May 10, 2015, 03:39:53 AM
Wow, her cape completely one ups Miko's. I'm sorry crown prince you're still cool

From the look of the city background, does the final stage take place in the outside world?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 10, 2015, 03:42:19 AM
Another thing that I noticed... The stage that you meet her at... Those are tall buildings and streets, right?

The final stage is in the Outside World! Meaning that there's going to be a danmaku fight in the outside world!

This is actually bigger than it sounds, because it means that if anyone notices the danmaku fight(and given the nature of such fights, who wouldn't?), that would kind of let people know that people and fights like this are a thing(broken masquerade, anyone?), presuming that people don't already know this already(maybe the government knows and will cover it up or something?). Think about it for a minute...

Edit: Gah! I've been ninja'd!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 10, 2015, 03:53:32 AM
at most it would be forgotten about and cause an urban legend

HENCE THE NAME
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on May 10, 2015, 03:55:39 AM
From what little I understand, Kasen managed to break the Hakurei Barrier in ULiL. So Usami is probably fought in the outside world. LoLK is what happens after Kasen screwed everything up.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 04:19:10 AM
Which ones? They mostly look like Celtic runes to me. Also, I spy a hexagram or Star of David. Combined with the Zener cards I mentioned earlier and that she uses ESP, Sumireko appears to have a Western feel to her (despite the name). Fits rather well with Maribel, don't you think?

I missed it the first time because I thought it was another skull, but the object to her left seems to be a crystal ball.

She's likely wearing a magician's cape too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Xarizzar on May 10, 2015, 04:34:58 AM
Indeed, with the new character being like that, there are going to be a lot of theories about the Sealing Club.

By the way, can someone remind me where (official source) it's mentioned that the Sealing Club is from the future? I forgot, sorry :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 10, 2015, 04:40:24 AM
From what little I understand, Kasen managed to break the Hakurei Barrier in ULiL. So Usami is probably fought in the outside world. LoLK is what happens after Kasen screwed everything up.

So it's Kasen's fault, then.

Should we add "Because Kasen broke something" to the list of forbidden templates now?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on May 10, 2015, 04:43:56 AM
Indeed, with the new character being like that, there are going to be a lot of theories about the Sealing Club.

By the way, can someone remind me where (official source) it's mentioned that the Sealing Club is from the future? I forgot, sorry :(

Actually, now that you mention it, I don't think it's ever explicitly stated. They live in a world similar to ours but slightly more advanced. It's implied that it's our future because of certain events, a similarity to the Seihou world, and a similarity to Yumemi's world, but I don't think Merry's world is ever outright said to be in the future.

By the way, I hate this type of spoiler box.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: UTW on May 10, 2015, 04:44:04 AM
That there's "only" three returnees and a newcomer character, especially after many of us hyped another returning character, I understand the disappointment from a gameplay perspective. But plotwise it should be anything but. Apparently going to the Outside, meeting Sumireko, getting more on the Sealing Club especially since she looks like Renko's ancestor? It's all heavy stuff.

From what little I understand, Kasen managed to break the Hakurei Barrier in ULiL. So Usami is probably fought in the outside world. LoLK is what happens after Kasen screwed everything up.

It's been teased in the manga, but after thinking about it a little after Sumireko's revelation, that's when I had the idea that Kasen may be involved to this extent.

If so, that's suddenly a big moment for Kasen, as well. I just wonder who actually knows what she did.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 10, 2015, 04:46:23 AM
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
LITERALLY A THING IN THIS NEW TOUHOU PROJECT VIDEO GAME
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Giratina93 on May 10, 2015, 04:47:57 AM
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
!!!!BYAKUREN RIDES A FUCKING MOTORCYCLE!!!!
LITERALLY A THING IN THIS NEW TOUHOU PROJECT VIDEO GAME

Wait. I need to see this. Got a link or something?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Xarizzar on May 10, 2015, 04:49:41 AM
Actually, now that you mention it, I don't think it's ever explicitly stated. They live in a world similar to ours but slightly more advanced. It's implied that it's our future because of certain events, a similarity to the Seihou world, and a similarity to Yumemi's world, but I don't think Merry's world is ever outright said to be in the future.
The only thing that is stated is that they live in a world that knows not of Gensokyo. Not necessarily in a world that has no connection to it. Perhaps there IS chance that it is the "human world", the other side of the Hakurei barrier. Which is why I'm asking. All I know about "them" are from those cameo appearances and the music CD, where nothing of the sort is stated, other than what I said about "a world that knows not of Gensokyo".
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 10, 2015, 04:50:58 AM
Wait. I need to see this. Got a link or something?
http://i.imgur.com/daWaa2R.png
http://i.imgur.com/le5tE6l.jpg
http://36.media.tumblr.com/7d38fb5bb25e23dd24f3a453875ecb01/tumblr_inline_no4ag2t1SM1swi65m_500.png
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Thaws on May 10, 2015, 04:53:53 AM
http://i.imgur.com/daWaa2R.png
http://i.imgur.com/le5tE6l.jpg
http://36.media.tumblr.com/7d38fb5bb25e23dd24f3a453875ecb01/tumblr_inline_no4ag2t1SM1swi65m_500.png

The chat:
"Oi! Duel already!" (common joke comment on yugioh 5D's videos where characters seems to race or fight on motorcycles more often than playing card games)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Giratina93 on May 10, 2015, 04:54:31 AM
http://i.imgur.com/daWaa2R.png
http://i.imgur.com/le5tE6l.jpg
http://36.media.tumblr.com/7d38fb5bb25e23dd24f3a453875ecb01/tumblr_inline_no4ag2t1SM1swi65m_500.png

The day the Buddhist monk that was sealed for a thousand years starts riding motorcycles...

I think I hear Shinki laughing her ass off back in Makai. This is glorious.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on May 10, 2015, 04:57:09 AM
And I didn't think much could top Mokou self destructing and resurrecting to attack her enemy.  Byakuren on a motorcycle!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 10, 2015, 05:04:59 AM
Danmaku on motorcycle!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 10, 2015, 05:09:09 AM
Danmaku on motorcycle!!
YES! Surely nothing can go wrong with that! After all, we've already seen card games on motorcycles!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 10, 2015, 06:06:19 AM
As a pleb who can't get the game for a few days, how is the music in the full game?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 10, 2015, 06:06:41 AM
I think that I'm more surprised that it's Hijiri Byakuren who is riding than anything...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 10, 2015, 06:38:52 AM
Anything interesting that Shinmyoumaru does ingame?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: teefa85 on May 10, 2015, 06:41:35 AM
AHAHAHA!!!  Sumireko has a win pose where she takes a selfie!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on May 10, 2015, 07:32:14 AM
IIRC (it's been a long time), Maribel and Renko were explicitly stated to be in the outside world "in the near future" in one of the previous fan translations of one of their stories (I think it was retrospective 50 minutes.  I could be wrong)

Later on, however, the translation was updated and that explicit mention was gone.  *shrug*  Hell if I know what the case actually was.  I can't read Japanese.

At any rate, assuming that's the case (and there's more than enough evidence that they're in the future of SOMETHING in their stories, explicit mention or not), and with Sumireko being stated to be the FIRST Sealing Club president (thereby preceding any latter members, including Maribel and Renko), the likely relationship for her is that she's an ancestor of Renko's or something (mother or grandmother or who knows.  Doesn't have to be direct.  Could be a distant aunt)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 10, 2015, 07:46:08 AM
Any news on Hanako?

Thanks in advance!

EDIT:
Just read that the 15th slot is for the random button, so Hanako doesn't exist, I guess...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 10, 2015, 08:11:53 AM
Any news on the fix similiar as Mauve provided before (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1182306.html#msg1182306). Just like before I applied it to a demo, I cannot launch the full version with applocale and it slows down pretty badly on character select screen. But the hex values are different this time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Xarizzar on May 10, 2015, 08:15:25 AM
IIRC (it's been a long time), Maribel and Renko were explicitly stated to be in the outside world "in the near future" in one of the previous fan translations of one of their stories (I think it was retrospective 50 minutes.  I could be wrong)

Later on, however, the translation was updated and that explicit mention was gone.  *shrug*  Hell if I know what the case actually was.  I can't read Japanese.

At any rate, assuming that's the case (and there's more than enough evidence that they're in the future of SOMETHING in their stories, explicit mention or not), and with Sumireko being stated to be the FIRST Sealing Club president (thereby preceding any latter members, including Maribel and Renko), the likely relationship for her is that she's an ancestor of Renko's or something (mother or grandmother or who knows.  Doesn't have to be direct.  Could be a distant aunt)
I would love to see that evidence (About the future) if it's an official source, especially if it proves it, and not just suggests it (because there are a lot of different facts that suggest a lot that are not necessarily true). Because info on Sumireko can differ depending on it. Because aside from this new game's info, and the info on those two, we know nothing about the "outside" world.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 10, 2015, 08:32:28 AM
Any news on the fix similiar as Mauve provided before (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17762.msg1182306.html#msg1182306). Just like before I applied it to a demo, I cannot launch the full version with applocale and it slows down pretty badly on character select screen. But the hex values are different this time.

Same thing, but the address is now 3D7E4A.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 10, 2015, 08:49:47 AM
Besides the overwhelming plethora of implicit evidence of the future through various advances in technology and ZUN's thoughts about what the future holds in general (which is a massive overarching theme throughout the works), we have some more explicit mentions to historical things that currently exist rather than merely stuff we'd think of as futuristic, which includes Mt Fuji having been extinguished and designated as a World Heritage Site, and cars being touted as an outdated mode of transportation. They also talk about Stephen Hawking in the past sense, so there's that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 10, 2015, 08:50:37 AM
Perhaps this might be relevant to bring up again...

Guys, about all that...

I ran the name of our "final boss" through a translator, and as I suspected, her first name means "violet child". That's going to throw up serious Renko x Maribel signs all over the place, since it could be speculated that this girl could maybe be from the future and is the future kid of Renko and Maribel. And the fact that she's the first president of the Sealing Club could just be her(knowingly or not) creating a Stable Time Loop, laying the tracks for Renko and Maribel in the future by forming the club in the first place...

It's only something that I'm throwing out there, and if the dialogue contradicts it, I won't be surprised. Still, until that point...

Also, she has skulls floating around her, which does not help(it is said somewhere that the Sealing Club is a group of necromancers), so there's that.

I believe that this will likely lead to an arc involving the Outside World somehow.

I also do recall that there was a point in one of the stories involving Renko and Maribel where Maribel suggests that they take a trip to the moon via her own "special method"... (It's one of the things that lead to people thinking that Maribel = Yukari, since Yukari made a gap to the moon via the moon's reflection, which is implied to be what Maribel did to travel to the moon with Renko), which is why the long shot sort of logic of "this girl must be from the future and is the child of Renko and Maribel" may end up coming up at some point, as I can't be the only one who's come to such an unusual set of conclusions.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 10, 2015, 09:25:42 AM
so do kasen and "hanako" not have specific themes, or are their themes just prostituted to other characters for whatever reason? haven't bothered to play the game to find out. i'm diggin the candid friend remix though
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 10, 2015, 09:27:15 AM
Same thing, but the address is now 3D7E4A.
Didn't really change anything except now an error pops up. Could you do it and maybe provide the .exe file itself, please? Or double check at least?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 10, 2015, 09:46:28 AM
They also talk about Stephen Hawking in the past sense, so there's that.

GODDAMMIT NOOOOOOOOOO ;_;

So...Maribel and Renko live approximately 10-20 years after the present day? If my memory serves me correctly, they are said to be university students. So that means they're young children as of the present day...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on May 10, 2015, 10:38:30 AM
"this girl must be from the future and is the child of Renko and Maribel"
Wait, how does that work ?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tsalop on May 10, 2015, 11:33:01 AM
Okay... What I have played so far, it is rather nice fighting game but only problem is that it seems to randomly crash when opponent declares a spellcard.
Also Kokoro has a creepy smile behind her mask.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 10, 2015, 11:56:01 AM
For those who do not want to deal with the tedium of completing every story, a file with unlocked
Sumireko
:
https://mega.co.nz/#!olJHmKxb!hRGdKZ3wL0dQzpnxKgwXkWmD81ezcrnP4VIKb7FbWp0 (https://mega.co.nz/#!olJHmKxb!hRGdKZ3wL0dQzpnxKgwXkWmD81ezcrnP4VIKb7FbWp0)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FLASH on May 10, 2015, 12:16:38 PM
Holy **** what?! an outside world fight?! :getdown: with buildings in a city and all?! Never in a Thousand years did i expect to see that in a Touhou Game WOW !
Plot Wise this looks like this game (and LOLK if their story is related) might be some heavy **** even in regards to the whole touhou universe in general, damn! :O

I really love
Sumireko's
Theme! Very Elegant, Mysterious and Beautiful!

thought number 1:
i bet People in the Outside World WILL have seen the Danmaku Fight, but they'll all come to think it was just a Mass Hallucination or something or not be trusted by the others, and that's the real "Urban Legend in Limbo" the game is named after!  :D

thought number 2:

our little Usami Sumireko here Could well be Maribel's ancestor instead, have anyone thought about that? Maribel come from a Bloodline of Mysticysts/ People who can see the Supernatural, this fit very well with Sumireko. And it's not said Anywhere Maribel and Renko aren't related; they could well be cousins or something no?
(Sumireko whould be a Direct ancestor to Maribel, and just an Aunt or something to Renko ?? thus being the OG Sealing club member, and related to Both its 2 later members we already know...? )

it's just an idea of course, i'm not even so convinced myself lol Hopefully Her story reveals or at least Hints at something though!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 10, 2015, 12:23:48 PM
You guys were probably hyped a bit too much if this comes as disappointment) Nice gameplay, good music, interesting story (not that I can read it though) and some fun spells (
Byakuren on motorcycle FTW
). Expectations met 99%)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Lightseeker on May 10, 2015, 12:43:14 PM
Kokoro's Last Word is like a jumpscare.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 10, 2015, 12:52:36 PM
Quote
Anyone have any idea on what Nitori's Last Word does?
From what I could figure out, you have to be pretty close for it to trigger and then she has Nessie shoot mouth lasers at the enemy!

But I think this game is really fun, combos are kind of beyond me at this point but Koishi is still adorable  :V
Her Last Word definitely has to be my favorite and her story spell card honestly kind of scared me first time seeing it...

Byakuren is now Wario now though. The most entertaining thing ever is watching her ride back and forth on her motorcycle  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 10, 2015, 01:09:15 PM
You guys were probably hyped a bit too much if this comes as disappointment
Well,
the roster could be a bit bigger and use more new faces.  It's smaller than 10.5...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Algo on May 10, 2015, 01:14:53 PM
Can anyone translate config menu, please? Thank you (http://blog-imgs-47.fc2.com/k/i/n/kinginsan/suika001.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tsalop on May 10, 2015, 01:48:21 PM
You're wizard Harry... (http://s21.postimg.org/6wepucmc7/Untitled.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 10, 2015, 01:49:36 PM
What's everyone think of the music? Favorite for me has to be Byakuren's because it's just so fitting with her and her occult skill  :D
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tsalop on May 10, 2015, 01:50:19 PM
My attempt to beat the game with Marisa... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uVuql-PppM)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 10, 2015, 02:02:37 PM
What's everyone think of the music? Favorite for me has to be Byakuren's because it's just so fitting with her and her occult skill  :D

Well from the little time i?ve had with the game, i have to say the music is great!

Some of the best are Kasen's theme, and the final boss theme

It is a shame that the 15th slot was a measly random select -_-"
Even though i don't understand anything in the story, the game is great!

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: N-Forza on May 10, 2015, 02:18:48 PM
If I weren't dead-tired, I'd dive into translating this right away. The spoilers are tantalizing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on May 10, 2015, 02:49:48 PM
Hm... from her character profile (on the wiki) I get the feeling that we're never going to see Sumire again, or at least not in Gensokyo. Anyone care to correct me (hopeful)?

I'm honestly not fond of the final boss theme. It's a pretty decent theme in it's own right but it's too far from what I think of as a ZUN song. Maybe it'll grow on me. The rest of the music is great, though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 10, 2015, 03:03:44 PM
how're HM players finding this game stacks up compared to HM? what're the biggest changes for better or worse? i dropped HM pretty early so i never got to see what the game became (nevermind that I'm awful at fightans in the first place) but i'd be interested
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 03:21:00 PM
Hm... from her character profile (on the wiki) I get the feeling that we're never going to see Sumire again, or at least not in Gensokyo. Anyone care to correct me (hopeful)?

Sumireko Usami's profile: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Sumireko_Usami

Yeah, I don't think we'll see her in Gensokyo. But I'm hoping that she gets mentioned in WaHH and maybe FS, even if it's a veiled reference. Considering Kasen's involvement, it's not unlikely.

A possible interaction with Merry and Renko, maybe? Earlier discussions have been about them living in the future, but there's also the possibility of parallel timelines/dimensions, e.g., Yukari and Sumireko are Merry and Renko in another timeline.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 10, 2015, 03:36:01 PM
I find it hilarious that ZUN went into great detail to
put "high school girl" as Sumireko's species.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 10, 2015, 04:03:46 PM
how're HM players finding this game stacks up compared to HM? what're the biggest changes for better or worse? i dropped HM pretty early so i never got to see what the game became (nevermind that I'm awful at fightans in the first place) but i'd be interested
We like how it feels more refined as a fighting game in general. However, the way combos work now is a bit off-putting in terms of how little hitstun there is now compared to HM.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on May 10, 2015, 04:06:27 PM
I find it hilarious that ZUN went into great detail to
put "high school girl" as Sumireko's species.
Not university student like Renko ?

A possible interaction with Merry and Renko, maybe? Earlier discussions have been about them living in the future, but there's also the possibility of parallel timelines/dimensions, e.g., Yukari and Sumireko are Merry and Renko in another timeline.[/spoiler]
Interestingly enough, Yukari and Merry never met each other for now ; seeing how Renko and
Sumireko
are related... maybe a music CD story'll elaborate on this someday ? *hopeful, hopeful*

Unless Sumireko is actually Renko's magical girl form, now that'd be a development
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Lightseeker on May 10, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
Anyone know what urban legend is Byakuren's occult attack based on?
I do not know of any stories that involve a woman riding a bike.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 10, 2015, 04:22:44 PM
By the way, what did the day 1 patch change?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 10, 2015, 04:36:39 PM
By the way, what did the day 1 patch change?
I heard it adds auto-patching capabilities.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gargamesh on May 10, 2015, 04:43:04 PM
I don't know what Tasofro did, but even with the fixes the users here posted, it seems my computer has deemed it unrunnable.

Oh well, I regrettably will pass from ULiL even though I want to play so badly. My God, another disadvantage of being poor and the inability to get a better laptop. :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ryan5011 on May 10, 2015, 05:00:57 PM
You're wizard Harry... (http://tinyurl.com/ktbl94g)

When I try to view it, I get a message saying my client doesn't have permission to view this :c Can you fix this/post translated screenshots?

EDIT: Just gonna say this now, netplay is still bad, not sure if it was as bad as HM's since I never found anyone to play with, but it's still kinda laggy, and a match where I had almost no lag, had a small delay...I'm hoping someone makes a ULiLRoll or something  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 10, 2015, 05:31:29 PM
Hm... from her character profile (on the wiki) I get the feeling that we're never going to see Sumire again, or at least not in Gensokyo. Anyone care to correct me (hopeful)?

And stuffs from others...
Actually...
She does came back and visit Gensoukyo, Maribel-style, through a dream. In the ending, she is returned to the outside world and the barrier got restored. However, later on she showed up in Gensoukyo, much to Reimu's surprise. Sumireko explains that whenever she sleeps, her mind/spirit transferred into Gensoukyo. She became quite popular with the other denizens of Gensoukyo since she tell them stories about the Outside World. Sumireko herself now spends almost half her day sleeping so she can visit Gensoukyo.
In a sense, no. She won't return to Gensoukyo, but she can still interact with the others. Though this opens up more room for speculation about her origins and what we presume, relations to the members of the Sealing Club that we know before. Rather tricky here, but let's save that for later.

Another thing, I also see how ULiL connects to LoLK now.
The Occult Balls are actually called "Power Stones" that Sumireko used to connect the Outside World with Gensoukyo. However, as you can see in her profile, and in the ending, one of the stone was a bit odd. That stone is the "Lunar Capital" power stone. Apparently, someone from inside of Gensoukyo messed around with it, causing the Urban Legend to leak into Gensoukyo, and they didn't even find it in the ending.

I'm not exactly sure since I think I need to redo them again, but I think the power stone can negate certain thing from being prevented entry by the Great Hakurei Barrier. If this is true though, we'll have some company if LoLK demo is an indication. One of them is probably the culprit who took the stone as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tsalop on May 10, 2015, 06:05:19 PM
When I try to view it, I get a message saying my client doesn't have permission to view this :c Can you fix this/post translated screenshots?

EDIT: Just gonna say this now, netplay is still bad, not sure if it was as bad as HM's since I never found anyone to play with, but it's still kinda laggy, and a match where I had almost no lag, had a small delay...I'm hoping someone makes a ULiLRoll or something  :ohdear:

Fixed the link... (http://s21.postimg.org/6wepucmc7/Untitled.png)

EDIT: What is Sumireko supposed to be doing when you are fighting her as Reimu for the last time? There was a flashing eye icon but for some reason nothing seemed to happen that would hurt Reimu.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Kaizaki on May 10, 2015, 06:13:43 PM
Actually...
She does came back and visit Gensoukyo, Maribel-style, through a dream. In the ending, she is returned to the outside world and the barrier got restored. However, later on she showed up in Gensoukyo, much to Reimu's surprise. Sumireko explains that whenever she sleeps, her mind/spirit transferred into Gensoukyo. She became quite popular with the other denizens of Gensoukyo since she tell them stories about the Outside World. Sumireko herself now spends almost half her day sleeping so she can visit Gensoukyo.
In a sense, no. She won't return to Gensoukyo, but she can still interact with the others. Though this opens up more room for speculation about her origins and what we presume, relations to the members of the Sealing Club that we know before. Rather tricky here, but let's save that for later.

Another thing, I also see how ULiL connects to LoLK now.
The Occult Balls are actually called "Power Stones" that Sumireko used to connect the Outside World with Gensoukyo. However, as you can see in her profile, and in the ending, one of the stone was a bit odd. That stone is the "Lunar Capital" power stone. Apparently, someone from inside of Gensoukyo messed around with it, causing the Urban Legend to leak into Gensoukyo, and they didn't even find it in the ending.

I'm not exactly sure since I think I need to redo them again, but I think the power stone can negate certain thing from being prevented entry by the Great Hakurei Barrier. If this is true though, we'll have some company if LoLK demo is an indication. One of them is probably the culprit who took the stone as well.

That's very interesting. Thank you.

As for the Lunar Capital stone, so it wasn't Kasen who tampered with it / broke the Barrier then? (I can't recall where I read this.)

I have a theory that the stone was also used to break the boundary between dreams and waking life. That can explain Sumireko's visits and Doremy's reaction to seeing Reimu in her physical body.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: the old guy on May 10, 2015, 06:23:48 PM
Actually, now that you mention it, I don't think it's ever explicitly stated. They live in a world similar to ours but slightly more advanced. It's implied that it's our future because of certain events, a similarity to the Seihou world, and a similarity to Yumemi's world, but I don't think Merry's world is ever outright said to be in the future./spoiler]
IDK about that,
being a world were "the smiles of children are rare", and the bamboo shots, makes it sound like a dystopian future to me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 10, 2015, 06:26:00 PM
I'm hoping someone makes a ULiLRoll or something  :ohdear:
Surprisingly, the built-in PPTP VPN server that comes with Windows 7/8 actually works quite well for this. I tried playing the demo with a friend across the city I live in, and it feels like local gameplay. There's little to no lag at all. The initial connection setup is a bit complicated, but the end result is pretty nice. Someone should try hosting this way across states (or even countries) to see if the latency is acceptable.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 10, 2015, 06:32:12 PM
Kind of related to what monhan said, but if I read it right and my Japanese isn't horrible...
Kasen explains to Mokou simply collecting the seven occult balls leads to the outside world being opened

but I may have missed something  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tsalop on May 10, 2015, 06:47:06 PM
Here is a small video of the last words that I made. (http://youtu.be/NbhynY0cRPQ)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ezsembler on May 10, 2015, 06:54:00 PM
hello, guys, anyone know where to get arts from game?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on May 10, 2015, 07:20:30 PM
IDK about that,
being a world were "the smiles of children are rare", and the bamboo shots, makes it sound like a dystopian future to me.
That's what I said... it's heavily implied to be in the future. I just don't think it's ever been outright stated which is what the question was about.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ryan5011 on May 10, 2015, 08:06:56 PM
hello, guys, anyone know where to get arts from game?

If you mean the character artwork, they're on the character listing page over at touhouwiki
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: zellking on May 10, 2015, 08:25:56 PM
the koishi changes confuse me, has anyone got the hang of her?
The automatic use of her moves seem even crazier and her run changes just make me miss everything
am i just bad at this  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 10, 2015, 08:37:59 PM
Koishi's changes seem to have been made to fit her urban legend. When she disappears during her dash she reappears shortly right behind your opponent so there's a specific timing to get down if you want to hit the enemy right as you teleport behind them.
Her other moves can actually be triggered by inputting the command a second time so they don't have to be counters now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: zellking on May 10, 2015, 08:52:04 PM
Koishi's changes seem to have been made to fit her urban legend. When she disappears during her dash she reappears shortly right behind your opponent so there's a specific timing to get down if you want to hit the enemy right as you teleport behind them.
Her other moves can actually be triggered by inputting the command a second time so they don't have to be counters now.
I was thinking that her change was related to that, still awkward to have your skills trigger whenever you try to dodge in story mode ^^
I was wondering how i was forcefully casting her skills, nice to know its just a simple case of repressing the buttons
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 10, 2015, 09:14:54 PM
Please tell me I'm not the only one who can't stop imaging a really awesome anime with Byakuren's new theme blaring in the background and her with her hair blowing in the wind and
taking command of the streets/skies with her motorcycle :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 10, 2015, 09:23:10 PM
>there's no fifteenth character
Oh well, who cares. Game is all kinds of fantastic and that's good enough for me!

Story-wise, tho -
Excuse me if I'm missing something (I'm still processing all the new lore), but was the hole that Kasen punched through the Hakurei Barrier the one responsible for the appearance of the Lunarians? IN said stuff about them not being able to enter Gensokyo because of the barrier, yet LoLK shows them there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on May 10, 2015, 09:52:39 PM
Mamizou seems to crash the game for me sometimes. Once while playing as her (while charging her bullet attack) and twice now while fighting her in story mode during her (I think first) spellcard, that also uses those UFO bullets. I could beat her a few times and I also managed to finish her story, so it doesn't happen all the time, but third times enough to let me ask here, if I'm alone with this problem.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HotGarbage on May 10, 2015, 10:09:06 PM
Mamizou seems to crash the game for me sometimes. Once while playing as her (while charging her bullet attack) and twice now while fighting her in story mode during her (I think first) spellcard, that also uses those UFO bullets. I could beat her a few times and I also managed to finish her story, so it doesn't happen all the time, but third times enough to let me ask here, if I'm alone with this problem.
I've seen others bring up this same issue, so it's not just you. IIRC one suggested that changing their difficulty from normal to hard fixed the problem? Can't test that myself as I've not yet played the game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on May 10, 2015, 10:09:17 PM
>there's no fifteenth character
Oh well, who cares. Game is all kinds of fantastic and that's good enough for me!

Story-wise, tho -
Excuse me if I'm missing something (I'm still processing all the new lore), but was the hole that Kasen punched through the Hakurei Barrier the one responsible for the appearance of the Lunarians? IN said stuff about them not being able to enter Gensokyo because of the barrier, yet LoLK shows them there.

That part of Imperishable Night has been retconned by Silent Sinner in Blue, Cage in Lunatic Runagate, and Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth. I am pretty sure the barrier could never prevent Lunarians from entering Gensokyo.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 10, 2015, 10:49:02 PM
That part of Imperishable Night has been retconned by Silent Sinner in Blue, Cage in Lunatic Runagate, and Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth. I am pretty sure the barrier could never prevent Lunarians from entering Gensokyo.

Then why are they entering Gensokyo now? And how is the Lunar Capital occult ball related to that? Or is all of that stuff still unknown?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 11, 2015, 01:15:50 AM
Were there any character omakes by chance? I'm curious how they explained Koishi's and Kokoro's reasons for fighting this time.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 11, 2015, 01:16:52 AM
I'm hoping for some tutorials or whatever soon because I have no idea WTF I'm doing with Mokou. :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 11, 2015, 02:09:50 AM
After practicing all the characters, I still don't get how Ichirin's Occult Attack works ._.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: UTW on May 11, 2015, 02:36:12 AM
Then why are they entering Gensokyo now? And how is the Lunar Capital occult ball related to that? Or is all of that stuff still unknown?

I believe the barrier does prevent them from coming in. However, to someone like Toyohime, it's no big thing, since she has the ability to link the Earth and Moon and travel between them. Or something. Reisen II also arrived with the help of the Lunar Veil. So it's no big deal entering Gensokyo if you have the means. But what I'm getting from LoLK is that there's someone else on the Moon who wants to wreak havoc in Gensokyo, but doesn't have the means or cooperation of Toyohime (TOTAL speculation).

That's why they apparently needed to interfere with Sumireko and enable her to break the barrier. But what I'm getting about Kasen's part is that she was actively trying to break the barrier from the other side, anyway. I think.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on May 11, 2015, 02:37:02 AM
This just happened.
http://puu.sh/hIWME/4f5d01d6a6.jpg

Not sure what I did but it I ended up "controlling" Byakuren as wel, while she simultaneously flew up and down. After I pushed her to the wall we both went into oblivion.
After doing some attacks she popped from the left side of the screen. Simple reentering the battle fixes it, obviously. But still.  :V

(has to do something with refreshing the field with F1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3t1c49QN_U

After practicing all the characters, I still don't get how Ichirin's Occult Attack works ._.
Throw the opponent to the other side of the screen and activate, I suppose.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fujiwario on May 11, 2015, 02:45:03 AM
So, I've never got super into HM, but Mokou is the game now so I'm getting into the game.
Is there anywhere I can get a tutorial as to mechanics? Written, video anything works.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 11, 2015, 02:53:42 AM
So, I've never got super into HM, but Mokou is the game now so I'm getting into the game.
Is there anywhere I can get a tutorial as to mechanics? Written, video anything works.
The game just came out, and the gameplay is pretty significanlty different from HM despite both being airborne. A lot of people are still trying to figure out how some mechanics work exactly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 11, 2015, 03:08:22 AM
So, I've never got super into HM, but Mokou is the game now so I'm getting into the game.
Is there anywhere I can get a tutorial as to mechanics? Written, video anything works.

Well, basic stuff on Mokou:
Her attacks deal a lot of damage, but most of them deal some damage to herself too. This damage is not permanent though, and her 5C skill is rebirth: she explodes in a column of fire, dealing nice damage, and resurrects in a few seconds with all self-inflicted damage gone. Her occult attack greatly increases her power, but quickly reduses her health, occult ends on rebirth (or getting hit).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 11, 2015, 04:12:57 AM
Throw the opponent to the other side of the screen and activate, I suppose.

That's her Last Word, sadly.
I meant her Z + X attack.

Also, Sumireko is really fun to play with~
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ezsembler on May 11, 2015, 04:15:31 AM
If you mean the character artwork, they're on the character listing page over at touhouwiki
i haven't found from 14.5
would be nice, if anyone could find sprites of
usami
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 11, 2015, 04:17:26 AM
Still feel that the roster is a wasted potential.  Number wouldn't have been an issue if they used more new characters who are more associated with urban legends (Aya, Hatate, Sanae, Kogasa, etc.) instead of bringing back characters who don't look like they fit the theme of the game...

Here's hoping for a 12.3-style update!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Patorikku on May 11, 2015, 05:26:18 AM
So, I've never got super into HM, but Mokou is the game now so I'm getting into the game.
Is there anywhere I can get a tutorial as to mechanics? Written, video anything works.
Valar's got the gist of what Mokou's mechanics are all about. I'll try and point out some specific stuff I noticed while I spent all day putting together as many reliable combos as possible for Mokou gave Mokou a quick test run.

First of all, Mokou's major gimmick is in fact her Resurrection game. Mokou's heavy melee attacks, (8Z/6Z/2Z) her forward and charged projectiles, and her forward, up and down specials (6C, 8C and 2C respectively) will decrease her blue health bar by a small percentage, and replace it with white health, which can be recovered back by using her 5C, Resurrection. An important thing to note about Resurrection is that its recovery time is EXTENSIVE. You can't do anything until Mokou's back at neutral height unless you declare a spellcard right after jumping out of the ball of fire. This leaves you wide open for punishment if you use Resurrection without thinking. As a sidenote, 4C doesn't take away any health and gives you great distance from the opponent, so it's a phenomenal spacing tool.

Mokou's Occult mode will increase the damage each of her attacks do, as well as increase the knockback on her heavier melee moves and boost the number of projectiles she fires off in any of her projectile attacks, while decreasing her blue health and turning it to white health passively as a result of being in this mode. It can be turned off at any time by using the occult function again after at least three seconds, but this method of turning off her Occult mode will leave her doing nothing for a full second, so if you plan on doing that, make some distance. Otherwise, just plan out using your Resurrection to get back any health you've lost. An important thing to note is that some combos may not work the same way in Occult mode as they would in Mokou's regular mode. Moves that require the opponent to be quite close to Mokou when she finishes an attack (8Z to 5C) can whiff entirely due to the increased knockback, and combos that require the use of projectiles can drop prematurely due to the extra stun provided by the increased projectile count. Keep that in mind and test your combos both in and out of Occult mode.

I have a few day 1 combos too. Mostly midscreen combos. A is melee button, B is projectile, and C is special. (which is already conveniently on C) jc = "jump" cancel, and moves with j. in front of the input are specific moves pulled off mid-jump.

Code: [Select]
4AAA 2A 2B 3jc j.6A 4C - Stun 100 - Damage 2296/3033 - Pushes the opponent into the corner, and since it ends on 4C, doesn?t require a lot of health loss. My personal go-to combo.

4AAA 2A 2B 3jc j.5A 8C - Stun 96/100 - Damage 2036/2718 - Offers the same distance as ? j.6A 4C, but puts you above the opponent, and will not stun in normal mode, and does less damage overall.

4AAA 8A 8C - Stun 80 - Damage 1691/2113 - Gives you plenty of distance above the opponent. WAIT FOR THE SECOND HIT OF 8A.

4AAA 8A 5C - Stun 48/NO DON?T - Damage 1626/STAHP(!!!) - DO NOT DO THIS WITH OCCULT ACTIVE. 8A has more knockback toward the corner in Occult mode, and Resurrection will completely whiff if you use it. Even then, this is not 100% safe for resurrecting. If you REALLY need to recover, and you feel you?ll gain more than you?ll lose if you screw it up, get that dial A confirm and go for it. Again, wait for the second hit.

2A 5C - Stun 56/56 - Damage 1411/1548 - Get RIGHT up in your enemy?s face for this one. Safer than the above, but it does require you to be hugging the opponent in order to pull this off reliably, so be careful with it.

That's what I've got so far. Still working on spellcard confirms and what exactly the hell I'm meant to be doing with her amulet card...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tsalop on May 11, 2015, 05:47:54 AM
I am not sure how much do you know about Sumireko as I can not read Japanese, but I was thinking about the popular theories of Sumireko being from parallel world or alternative timeline as she is as well the first president of sealing club... Personally I don't think it is impossible for Sumireko and Renko to exists in same world at the same time as Renko is university student and Sumireko is high schooler: They can be still both the first presidents for that club but in a different school.





Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 11, 2015, 06:08:25 AM
I am not sure how much do you know about Sumireko as I can not read Japanese, but I was thinking about the popular theories of Sumireko being from parallel world or alternative timeline as she is as well the first president of sealing club... Personally I don't think it is impossible for Sumireko and Renko to exists in same world at the same time as Renko is university student and Sumireko is high schooler: They can be still both the first presidents for that club but in a different school.

This might actually work.
Throwing in my thought, what if
Sumireko is actually Renko in another universe?
Might by a wild idea, but it might work~

Continuing from the theories of Sumireko being the ancestor of Renko, well, that can work.
It says in the wiki that Renko lives at Kyoto in the near future.
Dunno what album it was stated in, though.
Instead of ancestor, though, something like a close relative might do.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tsalop on May 11, 2015, 07:19:32 AM
Instead of ancestor, though, something like a close relative might do.

Yeah, that is possible. For my theory I was thinking that if they don't know each other they might be cousins.
Personally I have many cousins that I have only heard by name once or twice so that kind of relation might work in this case as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 11, 2015, 07:52:52 AM
Does Kasen's AI bug out for anyone? ( Or any other character, only happened to me on Kasen ). I was in a match with her as Miko, and sometime through the battle she began to go extremely defensive and not attack at all, just blocking. This is on Lunatic difficulty too, so it must be some kind of bug.

Anyways ULiL is so much better than HM in my opinion. I was a bit skeptic with the whole concrete movesets, but after playing around I quite like them actually. Huge improvement with the movement, lots of changes to characters, and the new ones are pretty fun as well. I really like Miko's changes especially, her occult move is one of my favorites, though nothing can really beat Byakuren on a motorcycle, haha. ULiL really lived up to my expectations at least, can't wait to get some games set up with my friends.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on May 11, 2015, 08:12:22 AM
Quote
Then why are they entering Gensokyo now? And how is the Lunar Capital occult ball related to that? Or is all of that stuff still unknown?

You have to play Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom for that answer. But Lunarians were always able to enter Gensokyo.

Quote
Yeah, that is possible. For my theory I was thinking that if they don't know each other they might be cousins.
Personally I have many cousins that I have only heard by name once or twice so that kind of relation might work in this case as well.

Merry and Renko are from the future. Sumireko is in the present. Since Sumireko and Renko have the last same last name, Usami, they are most likely related. Maybe Sumireko is Renko's ancestor or something.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Margatron on May 11, 2015, 08:23:01 AM
Does Kasen's AI bug out for anyone? ( Or any other character, only happened to me on Kasen ). I was in a match with her as Miko, and sometime through the battle she began to go extremely defensive and not attack at all, just blocking. This is on Lunatic difficulty too, so it must be some kind of bug.

Haven't played much AI in the official release, but in the web demo earlier, Kasen stopped attacking whenever she activated a spell card. So that might be why.
Anyway, 14.5 and 15demo both have a ton of bugs right now...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on May 11, 2015, 08:30:44 AM
Does Kasen's AI bug out for anyone? ( Or any other character, only happened to me on Kasen ). I was in a match with her as Miko, and sometime through the battle she began to go extremely defensive and not attack at all, just blocking. This is on Lunatic difficulty too, so it must be some kind of bug.

As far as I know, it's after she activates her top-most spellcard. She doesn't know what to do with it and just starts flying around.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 11, 2015, 08:35:37 AM
As far as I know, it's after she activates her top-most spellcard. She doesn't know what to do with it and just starts flying around.

Ah, alright then, I'll have to make sure that spellcard isn't selected for now. I was worried there was a bug with Miko's occult move or something.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Reu on May 11, 2015, 09:17:02 AM
Then why are they entering Gensokyo now? And how is the Lunar Capital occult ball related to that? Or is all of that stuff still unknown?

Personally I think there's mutiny going on. And you're likely going to end up helping Toyohime and Yorihime.
There's no way they would allow any mindless violence to go on, and they're perfectly content with letting earth stay as it is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Xarizzar on May 11, 2015, 09:56:23 AM
Merry and Renko are from the future. Sumireko is in the present. Since Sumireko and Renko have the last same last name, Usami, they are most likely related. Maybe Sumireko is Renko's ancestor or something.
Indeed, it has been proven that they're in a future. The future of our world, that is (or at least, what ZUN believes to be the future of our world). Everyone, please forgive me once again if I've missed anything important, but could it not be that the outside world that "Gensokyo is connected to" is the same world of those two, despite it being proven to be a future of something? Actually, how much info do we have on the outside world, counting the info of ULiL? In ULiL, I believe they only thing that is shown are skyscrapers/buildings. Do we have anything that adds to, or contradicts the info on the music CDs or any other precious source of information?

Once again, please forgive me if I missed anything, but the beautiful world of Gensokyo is large, and I have not examined the story enough times to know every single detail about it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 11, 2015, 10:32:12 AM
IIRC Kasen said she's opening a hole to 130 years ago?

Not sure, can't read the runes :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 11, 2015, 10:52:31 AM
Indeed, it has been proven that they're in a future. The future of our world, that is (or at least, what ZUN believes to be the future of our world). Everyone, please forgive me once again if I've missed anything important, but could it not be that the outside world that "Gensokyo is connected to" is the same world of those two, despite it being proven to be a future of something? Actually, how much info do we have on the outside world, counting the info of ULiL? In ULiL, I believe they only thing that is shown are skyscrapers/buildings. Do we have anything that adds to, or contradicts the info on the music CDs or any other precious source of information?

Once again, please forgive me if I missed anything, but the beautiful world of Gensokyo is large, and I have not examined the story enough times to know every single detail about it.
The current works follow our world fairly closely and refer to modern stuff. Previously we've had things like Rinnosuke finding an iPod and Yukari calling a Game Boy an old model. CoLA in particular had a number of references. Miko coming to Gensokyo was a direct consequence of ZUN hearing about scholars debating the existence of Prince Shoutoku, and in SoPM Kanako talks about the status of the Outside World in a modern sense. She mentions remote controls. Another common example is the supposed huge increase in souls 60 years before PoFV, which would have been 1945.

One reference most people probably weren't aware of was in the Shogi article in SoPM, which was set all the way back in Season 78, which was approximately 1963. It talks about "post-war reconstruction" and "rapid economic growth", which is referring to Japan's skyrocketing economy during the 1950~60s.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on May 11, 2015, 11:12:51 AM
IIRC Kasen said she's opening a hole to 130 years ago?

Not sure, can't read the runes :(

Marisa's Story is already translated on the wiki. I think the 130 years old thing that's beeing opened is the barrier and not that what's behind the barrier is 130 years in the past.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: UTW on May 11, 2015, 11:18:25 AM
Indeed, it has been proven that they're in a future. The future of our world, that is (or at least, what ZUN believes to be the future of our world). Everyone, please forgive me once again if I've missed anything important, but could it not be that the outside world that "Gensokyo is connected to" is the same world of those two, despite it being proven to be a future of something? Actually, how much info do we have on the outside world, counting the info of ULiL? In ULiL, I believe they only thing that is shown are skyscrapers/buildings. Do we have anything that adds to, or contradicts the info on the music CDs or any other precious source of information?

Once again, please forgive me if I missed anything, but the beautiful world of Gensokyo is large, and I have not examined the story enough times to know every single detail about it.

I'm going to link you to something I wrote on reddit concerning this topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/35g9px/discussion_reitaisai_12_discussion_thread/cr4bqgp

Your theory is possible, but I don't personally think so. I think most theories are accurate. Renko and Mari are indeed from an unspecified future. However, I don't believe their time is linked to "current" Gensokyo. I believe Sumireko's world (and consequently Sanae's...I wonder if Sumireko knows of Sanae's mysterious disappearance? I wish they would meet) to be "current" and is linked to "current" Gensokyo. I think they run more or less concurrent. My reasoning is that the Moriyas don't make mention of anything like what Renko and Mari experiences and are fairly knowledgeable of what was current before they entered. They are modern. There's also all the fairly modern junk that falls through and comes to Gensokyo. So I think anything that comes through the barrier comes from a concurrent normal world.

The question remains of how the Sealing Club are able to come through and seemingly arrive at various points in time. Particularly the past. And not just their past, but Gensokyo's past. SInce as I recall a note or something of Maribel's becomes lost in the past, for instance. There's something causing this gap or dilation to occur. Who knows what it is, but perhaps, at some point, something happens between now and the Sealing Club's time so that the two worlds are no longer in sync. Though this barrier incursion in ULiL would seem to do it. Well, it's just my theory, anyway. And thinking about it, if this is the case, then Sumireko having a hand in breaking through must have been necessary for Maribel to visit at the points she did, creating a loop, maybe? Hmm.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: UTW on May 11, 2015, 11:20:09 AM
Double post, dunno how this happened.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Xarizzar on May 11, 2015, 11:24:54 AM
The current works follow our world fairly closely and refer to modern stuff. Previously we've had things like Rinnosuke finding an iPod and Yukari calling a Game Boy an old model. CoLA in particular had a number of references. Miko coming to Gensokyo was a direct consequence of ZUN hearing about scholars debating the existence of Prince Shoutoku, and in SoPM Kanako talks about the status of the Outside World in a modern sense. She mentions remote controls. Another common example is the supposed huge increase in souls 60 years before PoFV, which would have been 1945.

One reference most people probably weren't aware of was in the Shogi article in SoPM, which was set all the way back in Season 78, which was approximately 1963. It talks about "post-war reconstruction" and "rapid economic growth", which is referring to Japan's skyrocketing economy during the 1950~60s.
I'm not quite sure how valid the items CoLA are as proof. I mean, those would be obsolete in the future too. Although I do seem to be remembering that items appear in Muenzuka (?) shortly after they become obsolete.

@UTW: Thank you for replying, but please do keep in mind that I'm asking questions to clear up any possible confusions, not theorizing. My questions and the basis/subjects of my theories are very different.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 11, 2015, 02:51:58 PM
I don't know what Tasofro did, but even with the fixes the users here posted, it seems my computer has deemed it unrunnable.

Oh well, I regrettably will pass from ULiL even though I want to play so badly. My God, another disadvantage of being poor and the inability to get a better laptop. :( :( :( :(
Have you done anything with your Antivirus yet? One of the issue is because of the antivirus.
If possible, show us what error you're having all this time.

Is there anywhere I can get a tutorial as to mechanics? Written, video anything works.
Can anyone translate config menu, please? Thank you (http://blog-imgs-47.fc2.com/k/i/n/kinginsan/suika001.png)
I'm hoping for some tutorials or whatever soon because I have no idea WTF I'm doing with Mokou. :derp:

If you guys still need it, I found someone who made a guide to the game's systems and mechanics. Credits to the original writer/uploader.
http://pastebin.com/6jdvjhSs
Though it was for the web demo version, so I'll add some changes for the full version of ULiL.


Touhou 14.5 - Urban Legend in Limbo
Web demo and latest patch can be found on Tasofro's site: http://tasofro.net/touhou145/

Contents
[1.] What is this?
[2.] Settings guide
[3.] Basic gameplay and Controls overview
[4.] The Occult Ball, Mystery Spots
[5.] Practice mode
[6.] Network play
[7.] FAQ, troubleshooting


[1.] What is this?
Touhou 14.5 Urban Legend in Limbo, abbreviated as ULiL, is the fifth fighting game spinoff in the Touhou series and the sequel to Touhou 13.5 Hopeless Masquerade. It features the original cast of 13.5 along with four (currently known) new characters. It also features redone movement and control, new gameplay mechanics and a community-made soundtrack with help of many popular doujin circles. The game revolves around japanese myths, and each character has attacks and a Last Word (ultra technique) that revolve around a particular myth.

[2.] Settings guide
From the main menu are Story Mode, Vs Com, Vs Player, Vs Network, Practice, Replay, Musicroom, Profile and Config.
Under Profile you will find options to tweak your profile's name, icon and controls. If you like, you can make a custom icon-- simply create a 32x32 bitmap and save it in the game's icon folder, located in the folder where you unzipped the game.
A translation of the profile menu can be found here: http://i.imgur.com/m3smMIY.jpg

Under Config you'll find various options to the game's sound and display.
A translation can be found here: http://i.imgur.com/3KpIvua.png
Some additions for the Full game are:
Save Replay  - Save all ; Disable ; Ask me everytime
Save Replay (Vs Network) - Save all ; Matches only ; Spectating only ; Disable

Generally you'll want to keep Vsync off. This game, and Hopeless Masquerade, have horribly implemented Vsync that causes the game to chug. If either player has it on during netplay, it will slow the game down for both players.
If you're playing on a low end PC and you find that you can't get decent frames, try changing background quality to low.

[3.] Basic gameplay and Controls

Gameplay in Urban Legend in Limbo is similar in many respects to most conventional fighting games except for movement because of the lack of physical ground. Players attack each other with various abilities that reduce the health of the other player.
When one player's health reaches 0 or the timer runs out, the round will end. When a player's health reaches 0, the other player will receive a round point. In the event of the timer running out, the player with the most remaining health will win. If both players have the same amount of health, the player with the most occult balls will win. If both players have the same amount of health and occult balls, the round will result in a draw.
Matches are decided in a best 2 out of 3 format. The first player to reach two round points wins.

--Game modes--
In Story Mode, the player will move through a series of stages where they fight against an AI controlled opponent for several rounds. The first round will usually play like a normal match, but during the following rounds the AI character will gain access to various special attacks called spellcards and become immune to hitstun. Some stages even have the opponent use it right away and consists of only spellcards. During 2nd and later spellcards, an occult ball or more will sometimes appear either next to the AI opponent or within their attack. If you touch the border around it, you will deal damage to the opponent's super armor (as indicated by the pink bar near the timer), eventually making them dizzy for a few seconds and removing their super armor.
You cannot capture occult balls in Story Mode, and Mystery Spot effects will not occur. You are, however, given a set amount of occult balls at the start of each match. It will increase as you go through each stage, taking your opponent's ball.

Vs Com pits the player against an AI controlled character with a choice of four difficulties: Easy, Normal, Hard and Lunatic. The player chooses his character and spellcard, and the AI's character and spellcard.
Vs Player allows two players to play locally.
Vs Network allows for two players to play over the internet.

--Basic controls--
Character movement will be represented using the button placement found on the numpad of a typical PC keyboard.
7 8 9
4 5 6
1 2 3
6 denotes the forward button and 4 denotes the backward button. Standing still, or not pressing any direction at all, is represented by the 5 button. These directions reverse when standing on the right side of the screen, but to avoid confusion we will always assume you are on the left side of the screen. 8 represents up and 2 represents down.
The numbers 7, 9, 1 and 3 denote diagonal directions and can be performed by pressing two directional buttons together. For example, pressing 8 and 6 together will result in 9.

Aside from directions, ULiL has four buttons used for attacks and one button used for movement. All controls can be re-bound in the profile menu, and keyboard and gamepad controls may be bound indepedently.

A (default key Z) - Pressing this button executes a melee attack. Standing still while pressing it will cause a different attack depending on your distance from your opponent. Point blank attacks standing still are referred to as 5a while distant attacks are referred to as f5a. f5a tends to have a larger hitbox.
When standing next to the enemy player and hitting 5a repeatedly you will execute a short combo. The first two hits are light melee attacks. The third is a nondirectional heavy melee attack. The fourth hit is a directional heavy melee attack and holding a direction when it is executed will change it accordingly. The fifth hit is another directional melee attack and, again, will change when holding a direction. They're some of your skill attacks, and in case of Byakuren and Koishi, need no setup beforehand.
You can also perform a single heavy melee attack by pressing a direction (2/6/8) as you press A. These attacks mostly have different properties compared to the ones in the previous combo. 4a will force you to use 5a even if you're not close to the opponent. Depending on your position, some of these attacks may change, so take note.


B (default key X) - This button is used for danmaku. Reimu's needles, Marisa's stars, Kasen's hadoukens for example. Holding this button down briefly and releasing it will perform another attack. Holding it down longer will create a more powerful version of the charged B attack. This is denoted by the glowing blue aura behind your character while charging, and the second 'stage' of charge is denoted by a more intense aura. The only way to cancel out of a charged ability is to backdash with 44 or fire the projectile.

C (default key C) - This button is used for special attacks, and has various effects. For Reimu, pressing it while standing still will cause her to dash around the screen. Kasen uses to command her animals, etc. Some special attacks may require you to mash the button(Ichirin's and Nitori's 5c), can be charged (Byakuren's 6c, Sumireko's 5c), and can also change depending on your position. Test them out to see the different properties.

Using B or C moves (otherwise known as spirit attacks) requires Spirit, denoted by the flames at the bottom of the screen. You have six spirit flames by default, and they are consumed when a spirit attack is executed and recharge when not using them for a few seconds. When you run out, you must wait for at least one spirit flame to recharge to use another spirit attack.

D (default key A) - This button activates spellcards, which can be used when your special meter is charged at least to the initial threshold. You can charge it by firing danmaku and hitting with attacks and how much charge you have is indicated at the bottom of the screen next to your chosen spellcard. To use a spellcard, you need to first declare it by hitting the button once, and then activate it by pressing it again. The spellcard does more damage the more charge you have, and can be charged far beyond the initial use requirement. When you declare a spellcard, you stop accruing spellpower until you use the spellcard. Also, pre-declared spellcards will deal more damage than spellcards that are declared and used instantly.
Each character has 3 different spellcards, and you can only use one at a time. You choose your spellcard on the character select screen, after choosing your character.
In story mode, dying while not using the spellcard after declaring will deplete your meters, so pay attention.

Dash (default key S) - Pressing this key while holding a direction will cause your character to move forward quickly, and fly while jumping.  On 'ground,' pressing 66 will result in the same effect, but while jumping, the dash button will cause you to continually fly while 66 or 44 will perform a short dash in the air and then you will fall back to the center. You can dash twice in mid air before you are forced to fall. Pressing dash and 8 together in the air will cause a double jump. Pressing A or B while dashing will cause a dash attack.

You can also now see the list of special attacks that your character has on the pause menu during fights. It usually gives you info on additional things it can do if it has it.

--Directional attacks--
Holding a direction while pressing A, B or C will cause different attacks and generally are used for attacking up or down.
Pressing A while pressing up, down, or forward will execute a melee attack in that direction.
Pressing B while holding up (otherwise referred to as 8b) will usually cause you to shoot your danmaku up, for example.
However, pressing a direction while pressing C will usually result in a different special attack, for example Kasen's 8c commands her eagle.

--Jumping--
In Urban Legend in Limbo, there is no physical ground and both characters are constantly in flight. Dissimilar to the previous game, Hopeless Masquerade, the center of the screen acts as the default plane characters fight on and is referred to as the 'ground.' Pressing 8 will cause your character to fly upward and then fall back down. Pressing 2 will cause your character to fly downward and then rise back to the center. This is referred to as 'jumping' and attacks performed while jumping will be referred to with a j in front of them, for example j5a. The A button performs different attacks while jumping, but B and C act as normal.


--Blocking--
Holding the opposite direction when being attacked will cause your character to block. When you block an attack, a blue hexagon shield will appear to protect you. As you get hit, the shield will gradually turn red. If all the hexagons turn red, the shield will break and you will be momentarily stunned.
When blocking melee attacks, you take no damage, but when blocking spirit attacks and spellcards you take a small amount of chip damage.
You can also push back your opponent by pressing C while blocking, but the amount of time you remain blocking before you can act again (aka blockstun) is increased compared to blocking normally.


[4.] The Occult Ball, Occult attacks, Mystery Spot

Periodically during play, a countdown will appear in the middle of the screen. When it reaches 0, an occult ball will spawn and a mystery spot will trigger.
Touching the occult ball will mark it with a color. Player 1 marks the ball with red, player 2 with blue. At the end of the mystery spot, whoever has the most marks on the ball will receive it and it will be added to the occult ball meter next to the timer as either red or blue. Occult balls are used to activate occult attacks and Weird Last Words.

To activate an occult attack, gather at least one occult ball and press A and B together. Some characters have only one attack, while others cycle through different variations of their occult attack. After using an occult attack, you will glow with a purple aura briefly. If you are attacked during this time, there is a chance your occult ball will be stolen by the other player.

To activate a Weird Last Word, gather at least four occult balls and press C and Spellcard together. Generally you need to be point blank to hit with it, and it can be blocked. If it hits, a special animation will play and significant damage will be dealt, at least 4k and all the way up to 8k if you can manage to gather 7 occult balls. Hit or miss, all of your occult balls will be consumed.

There are seven different mystery spot effects that trigger when an occult ball spawns.
Pyramids: Both players' Occult Attacks are at max power.
Stonehenge: The stage's left/right walls narrow.
Tower of Babel: Touching the Occult Ball's capture field briefly turns it into a projectile that can hit the opponent.
Yomotsu Hirasaka: Steadily turns both players' life bars white faster the closer they are to the center of the stage. White life counts as damage, and damaging your opponent with attacks will also add to the white life, but when the Mystery Spot ends it turns back into normal health. Meaning that your attacks won't count unless you finish the opponent. Large Occult Ball capture field.
Nazca Lines: Touching the Occult Ball's capture field restores a small amount of life and 100 spell power.
Hell Valley: Fogs the bottom of the screen and slowly damages players in that area.
Lunar Capital: Slows down most projectile attacks.

[5.] Practice mode

By the full version, the game now have a proper practice mode.

The menu consists of 4 tabs: Player 1, Player 2, Setting, and Macro

Player menu tab allows you to set:
Health Gauge: Sets maximum health for this player in 10% increments. Changes between 100%, 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50%, 40%, 30%, 20%, and 10%.
Spirit Gauge: Sets spirit power for this player. Changes between always 5, 4, 3, 2, or 1 flame, and normal in-game behavior.
Occult Ball: Sets the amount of possessed Occult Balls.
Guard Durability: Sets maximum spirit for this player in 20% increments. Changes between 100%, 80%, 60%, 40%, 20%, and 0%.
Spellcard Gauge: Sets spell power for this player. Changes between always 2 bar, 1.5 bar, 1 bar, 0.5 bar, empty and normal in-game behavior.
Position: Changes the starting position when you reset the practice(F1). Dummy will also position themselves to the point set here.
Special Gauge: Sets the state of some characters' gimmick. Not everyone has it.

Setting menu allows you to set:
Mystery Spot: Forces a Mystery Spot to appear. Mystery Spots is set to not appear by default.
Player 2 Control: Changes the behavior, from: dummy, jump up, jump down, COM, and 2P.
Computer AI: Changes the difficulty, from: Easy Normal, Hard, and Lunatic.
Counter: Forces counter to occur. Changes between random, always, and disable.
Guard: Changes auto-blocking for Player 2. Changes between no auto-block, random, first strike only, and normal auto-block.
Guard: Changes auto-Barrier Guard for Player 2. Changes between no auto-block, random, and auto-Barrier Guard.
Recovery: Changes the direction between back, forward, and random.

Macro menu allows you to set:
Macro Select: Set the slot you want to use for recording or replaying.
Macro Record: Record the movement
Macro Replay: Replays the movement you recorded, and repeat it with a reset.

Reset practice mode (F1)
Return to game
Return to character select screen
Return to title

[6.] Network play

Under Vs Network you will find options to host and join network games. A full translation of this will be available later.

The top option will host a game, second option manually input the IP and port numbers of the host you want to join, third option lets you select among the host that you've joined before, and the fourth option connects to a game from the copied IP&Port from the clipboard. If you receive a message with no options when you attempt to connect, the connection has failed. If you receive a message with an option when you attempt to connect, you are given the option to close the connection or spectate, spectate being the second option.
If you wish to leave a game after joining, you need to hold B for a few seconds on the character select screen.

To host this game you need an open port, default port 10800. Since everyone uses a different router, specific instructions on how to port forward are not particularly helpful. Use http://portforward.com and look up your individual device, and then how to port forward a simple game like Half-Life, but port forward the port 10800 instead of whatever numbers they give you.

This game does not have a rollcaster. As such, we are at the mercy of japanese network programming. However, so long as you play with someone in your general part of the world, you should have a playable game. Even someone a few hundred miles away from you could feasibly work so long as you both have a good connection.
Another tip is, especially when hosting, to play with an ethernet connection. Playing on wireless is prone to be a bit laggier than a direct ethernet connection.
Unfortunately, playing outside your country (or even with someone who's just on the other side of your country) will usually result in a game of turn based ULiL.

[7.] FAQ and troubleshooting

Q. Isn't this just HM2? I thought that game sucked and that's why no one plays it.
A. No. It runs on the same engine as HM and uses many of the same assets. However, it is a completely redesigned game from controls to gameplay to systems. Gone is the floaty flight that HM had, along with popularity and the strict timer. If you hated HM, give this a try. While a rollcaster will still be necessary for international and long distance play, the netplay is also slightly better implemented here and there's a bit more leeway in how far away you can be from someone and still have a playable game.



That's the system basics I guess. If you meant for general fighting tips, then maybe someone else more capable can explain it.

Still feel that the roster is a wasted potential.  Number wouldn't have been an issue if they used more new characters who are more associated with urban legends (Aya, Hatate, Sanae, Kogasa, etc.) instead of bringing back characters who don't look like they fit the theme of the game...

Here's hoping for a 12.3-style update!
At this point, you sound like you just don't want to see the cast of HM returning in this game, even if you said otherwise.

What would be a waste, is if they didn't make use of the existing assets. And even then, they made drastic changes to how they all play, so in my opinion HM won't be obsolete. Right now, there are some that have a hard time keeping up with the others, but they still have the potential.
More character is always welcome, but I'd rather have a decent balanced game.

Anyway, regarding translations, where should we start?
Marisa's story is already translated, but not the rest. I'd like to know how they got the Japanese script though. Was it manually typed or extracted from the game? Because that'll make things easier.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 11, 2015, 03:08:16 PM
I don't think anyone posted a translation of this yet, so I compared the config page of HM to ULiL and created this (http://i.imgur.com/3Mhm6qz.png).
Seriously though, what does Ichirin's Z+X attack do?  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on May 11, 2015, 03:39:00 PM
This turned out to be a great addition to the Touhou fighting games. I'm looking forward to adding this one to my hard drive once a 1.0 English patch comes out.  :D

One thing is still a mystery now that the dust of the full release is slowly settling. Why are Mokou's sleeves all chopped up in this game? Are there any hints of this in her dialogue anywhere?

It's not that important really but I remembered alot of people where going "eh?" when the first screen shots of her where released.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on May 11, 2015, 03:49:10 PM
I'm not quite sure how valid the items CoLA are as proof. I mean, those would be obsolete in the future too. Although I do seem to be remembering that items appear in Muenzuka (?) shortly after they become obsolete.

@UTW: Thank you for replying, but please do keep in mind that I'm asking questions to clear up any possible confusions, not theorizing. My questions and the basis/subjects of my theories are very different.

Some magazines from the outside world flow into Gensokyo in Forbidden Scrollery.  THey mention the fall of the Berlin Wall.  In addition, the Apollo Project is mentioned in Imperishable Night's backstory, as is the Chiange project in Silent Sinner in Blue.

Wild and Horned Hermit also had that seal that made its way to Japan (an actual event in real life) show up in Gensokyo, too.

All of these are events that happened in the real world (your world, my world, whatever).  Therefore odds are pretty good "the outside world" and "the real world" (that you and I are from) are one and the same.


Likewise, Maribel and Renko's stories mention several real world events and figures.  Steven Hawking was already brought up, but it's also mentioned in Magical Astronomy that the Greenwhich Observatory was built in the 17th century, which is, again, when it was built in our world.



If Maribel and Renko are from an alternate/concurrent/whatever dimension, and if Gensokyo's outside world is a different alternate/concurrent/whatever dimension, and our own real world is an alternate/concurrent/whatever dimension, I find it awfully suspect that all of them have yet to mention any contradicting historical events.  Why wasn't the Greenwhich observatory in Maribel's time built in the 15th century instead of the 17th?  Why wasn't the Apollo Project in Gensokyo's outside world named the Prometheus project instead?  Why is Stephen Hawking known in Maribel's world?  Why does Maribel's world ALSO have a Tokyo and a Mt. Fuji?  Why did Gensokyo's outside world also have a seal that made its way to Japan just like our real world?  Why does Maribel's world have the exact same legends about the moon that Gensokyo has?  They all coincidentally happen to be (or happen to be named) exactly what they are in our real world.

So, yea, pretty darn sure they're all the same.  Even the future of Maribel's world is stuff that ZUN basically said in his commentary that he believes will be the future of our world (the synthetic bamboo stalks in his commentary he also specifically chalks up to "scientific progress", by the way.  If it were an alternate dimension, he would have said something to that effect, instead, I'd think)

Either that or they're the most friggin' LAZY alternate dimensions/whatevers EVER because they're all THE SAME, right down to their historic events and legends.

About the only things really contradicting our past compared to everything else is that Prince Shotoku is a girl.  Even then that's implied to be either a historical recording error or some other strange shenanigan (one that doesn't involve Gensokyo's outside world being different from our real world) because it's explicitly shown in Sanae's ending that the outside world of Gensokyo's history recorded Prince Shotoko as a guy, just like our real world.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: AJS on May 11, 2015, 03:52:30 PM
Seriously though, what does Ichirin's Z+X attack do?  :derp:
It creates a sphere of purple energy around your opponent's current location.  If they leave it before it dissipates, or before they hit you to cancel it, they'll get zapped.  Great for trolling opponents who like to move around a lot ;)

On that note, for anyone who hasn't figured it out, Nitori's Z+X is actually really fun to mess around with once you know what you're doing.  The first press activates the Nessie robot.  Forward+Z+X and backward+Z+X maneuvers it, and down+Z+X puts it away.  While it's out, the battery icon above Nitori's spell bar slowly drains, but loses a sizable chunk of charge every time it automatically fires on the opponent.  If you don't put the robot away before it drains completely, you'll lose an Occult ball to the opponent.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 11, 2015, 04:01:56 PM
It creates a sphere of purple energy around your opponent's current location.  If they leave it before it dissipates, or before they hit you to cancel it, they'll get zapped.  Great for trolling opponents who like to move around a lot ;)

Oh, cool! o3o
Thanks for the info~
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gargamesh on May 11, 2015, 04:32:53 PM
Have you done anything with your Antivirus yet? One of the issue is because of the antivirus.
If possible, show us what error you're having all this time.

That's the thing, I can't.  There's nothing. Even with the patched exe all I get is a window opening to the black void which then closes immediately.

Btw, I don't think this is an issue since I can run HM and the first demo of ULiL, but does it have to do with my OS being 32bit?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on May 11, 2015, 04:58:40 PM
Some stuff I found with Shinmyoumaru, if people are interested :

5AAA 8A 8B 9C (1636, 50 stun)
5AAAA 4C (2136, 100 stun) - Corner only
5AAA 2A 4C 2C (2008 damage, 100 stun)
5AAAA [6B] 2C (2046 damage, 100 stun)
5AAAA [6B] 6C 2C (2281 damage, 100 stun) -  Only works around the center of the field, else the 6C will whiff.
All of these can be done after a j.A, for like around 400 more damage.

Her DashB is acting super weird with some characters for some reasons. The move normally had 7 hits with the last hit sending the opponent towards the wall. All characters get hit only 6 times and get launched except :
Miko - 7 hits
Marisa - 6 hits, LAST HIT DOESN'T LAUNCH GG HITBOXES
Mamizou - 5 hits
Shinmyoumaru - 7 hits

6C DashB (1651 damage, 100 stun) - Only way I could make all the hits of her DashB connect against every character.

Her Adorable Tai Gong Wang does tons of damage in the corner and is not really hard to combo into, and you can even hit the opponent after it, though I think a single hit is enough to limit, so the best to do is just 2C. I tried to use her charged 5B but there's just not enough time. Last Word works perfectly afterwards though.

Some examples :

5AAAA [6B] 6C D 2C (5378 damage, 100 stun)
j.A 5AAAA [6B] 6C D 2C (5711 damage, 100 stun)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 11, 2015, 05:02:04 PM
Please correct Yomotsu Hirasaka description: not only it turns players' health white, but it also causes any damage dealt during Mystery Spot turn health white. That means if you don't  defeat your opponent during event, all health will return exactly as it was at the beginning of the Spot (and Mokou will receive a bit of extra healing XD).

I have a question on Koishi: her dash teleports her behind her opponent, but she will face wrong direction. How to make her turn quickly  to strike opponent from behind immediately?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 11, 2015, 05:03:53 PM
i've already gotten two PMs about this, so i'll just make it clear

i'm not updating that nvidia-fix from a few pages back because i don't have the game and i'm not getting it, taking a pass on this one

thanks
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 11, 2015, 05:07:04 PM
I have a question on Koishi: her dash teleports her behind her opponent, but she will face wrong direction. How to make her turn quickly  to strike opponent from behind immediately?

What I ended up doing is using her occult attack as a first hit, then followed up from that, since Koishi's occult attack hits all around her. Of course this requires an occult ball to do, which means you can't do this at the start of a round. Though I'm not a very good Koishi player, I haven't thouroughly experimented with her moveset.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 11, 2015, 05:36:33 PM
I have a question on Koishi: her dash teleports her behind her opponent, but she will face wrong direction. How to make her turn quickly  to strike opponent from behind immediately?
From what I've tested, not much outside of A+B. Maybe a quick tri-dash over the opponent but I've yet to test it myself
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 11, 2015, 05:43:45 PM
I don't think anyone posted a translation of this yet, so I compared the config page of HM to ULiL and created this (http://i.imgur.com/3Mhm6qz.png).
Seriously though, what does Ichirin's Z+X attack do?  :derp:

Well Ichirin summons the 8 Feet Tall Lady, to create a sort of occult barrier around the opponent, if the opponent touches the limit of the barrier then they will be damaged, you can also use it for distancing Ichirin from the opponent.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 11, 2015, 07:33:52 PM
From what I've tested, not much outside of A+B. Maybe a quick tri-dash over the opponent but I've yet to test it myself

How about stop and wait a couple frames to recover and just do 5a?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 11, 2015, 07:41:41 PM
How about stop and wait a couple frames to recover and just do 5a?

Then opponent will turn too, and at least can block, or even do her own 5A. Waiting still in melee - not the best idea, I thnk.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 11, 2015, 08:10:59 PM
You have to play Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom for that answer. But Lunarians were always able to enter Gensokyo.

I've played the game and I've read the wiki's translations of Reimu's and Reisen's scenarios and neither of them say why the moon is invading now rather than, say, a year or two ago. It's very likely related to the Lunar Capital power stone that Sumireko had (and that Marisa stole), but the scenarios don't say what the exact relationship between the two is, either.

Unless you mean that I have to wait for the full game, in which case, well, I reached the same conclusion.

I did get to learn from Reisen's scenario that the Dream World is apparently a path that the rabbits use to travel between the moon and Gensokyo, so that's pretty neat.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gilde on May 11, 2015, 08:51:42 PM
Mamizou's animal card is the gift that keeps on giving.

(http://i.imgur.com/ck3cHUn.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on May 11, 2015, 09:11:55 PM
So, from what I played, RNG bulls**t doesn't feel as terrible as in Soku, but man, they should make it a little less opaque and visible because some of them take the whole screen. At one point my friend and I had to stop to check where we were.

Also, timer flashing in the middle of the screen is really distracting.

Other than that, I'm having fun so far. Shinmyoumaru is adorbs. :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: TresserT on May 11, 2015, 09:39:00 PM
Mamizou's animal card is the gift that keeps on giving.

(http://i.imgur.com/ck3cHUn.png)

That's... a bakebake...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 11, 2015, 09:42:17 PM
Mamizou's animal card is the gift that keeps on giving.
Huh, I hadn't seen those from Mamizou yet. Is there one for each character or just those four? Kasen-snake is pretty great.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gilde on May 11, 2015, 10:22:58 PM
Huh, I hadn't seen those from Mamizou yet. Is there one for each character or just those four? Kasen-snake is pretty great.

Here's a video of the transformations for the characters from HM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10zpc9krSQs
I think I can safely say it's my favorite thing in the whole game. (...aside from the part where you proceed to beat them up. ・A・)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 11, 2015, 10:46:02 PM
Anyway, I was right. ULiL is amazing. My favorite fighting game, Hisoutensoku was getting boring after having played it with a friend for pretty much 3 years straight. Love it. The story is neat too (even if it's still in japanese).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on May 11, 2015, 11:15:38 PM
there an irc channel for this? obviously people are on rizon but idk if ppirc folks are just using sokumaidens or what. nothing ULiL-related shows up using /list.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sahuaro on May 12, 2015, 12:06:29 AM
Im glad to see much more acceptance of this game than poor HM had, altough some was justified, most of it felt more like the typical hate becase X is not Y... like how smash Brawl wasnt like Melee and so on.

I?ve been doing some testing myself and oh boy if this gameplay is much more different than HM?s. So many changes in so many areas, specially on the floatiness ones. Like for example, you can only and strictly only do dash attacks as long as you are on ground (mid height) of the stage. Also, no matter what, as soon as your reach the ground all 5A moves you do get auto-cancelled.

You might want to try sokumaidens (https://webchat.ppirc.net/?channels=sokumaidens), its like the general Irc site for touhou figthing games.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 12, 2015, 12:47:13 AM
Hey guys, I made a Day 1 Koishi Combo video for this game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xieO81oPZs)

It was surprisingly a lot more fun than I thought :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 12, 2015, 12:49:15 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/nu2dZIb.png)

Updated that thing I made earlier. Now you can see what everything does in the Config menu.

Again, remember to keep Vsync off AT ALL TIMES.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 12, 2015, 12:55:53 AM
Im glad to see much more acceptance of this game than poor HM had, altough some was justified, most of it felt more like the typical hate becase X is not Y... like how smash Brawl wasnt like Melee and so on.
at launch Hopeless was bad in pretty much every conceivable way; if anything all the games' faults were used to justify an overall low interest level.

I still don't like the thick-edged anime style they switched to for the sprites, though. It's ugly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 12, 2015, 02:32:50 AM
Just beat Koishi's story and
Koishi with a cellphone is so cute :3

But some of the dialogue seemed really interesting especially for her. I couldn't tell if she just wanted to scare people or if she didn't want the legend of Merry to be forgotten... makes me wonder if she chose Merry because she can magically appear behind people or because she is a "forgotten doll" and connects with that.

The ending said something about true terror but I haven't learned enough kanji to know what. I just know Satori said the outside world is the scariest of worlds :ohdear:

Random thought: but maybe Koishi's fascination with phones is her way of showing she wants to actually communicate with others?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 12, 2015, 03:58:37 AM
Meant to mention this earlier but I'd gladly help translating. I'm still learning the language but I feel I could understand a fair bit of the text,
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Freeze-Ex on May 12, 2015, 04:54:03 AM
Just finished playing the story mode. The story was quite interesting and I like how it connects to TH 15.
I hope there would be a roll software for ULiL tho  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 12, 2015, 05:08:49 AM
Quick update about the whole spellcard bug with Kasen. I tested against each of her spellcards, and it seems that only the middle one works properly. The top and bottom ones will cause Kasen to only block and dash once they're declared, so if you are playing with Kasen as the AI, make sure you set her spellcard to the middle one if you don't want her AI to bug out. Just a bit of warning for those who don't know.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 12, 2015, 05:13:36 AM
There seem to be some character-specificness going on in the combos here. For example, Mokou's j.5A 4AAA 8A(1 hit) 6B 6CCC (dial this shit like it's MKX) seems to work on Reimu and Byakuren but doesn't on Sukuna for some reason as far as I tested. Of course, my execution isn't exactly great but I can do that one consistently enough.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: winter_hotaru on May 12, 2015, 07:57:21 AM
I know not many are hyped for Miko as I did but I made a little combo video for her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7YWIpEPO2g&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 12, 2015, 11:07:38 AM
I know not many are hyped for Miko as I did but I made a little combo video for her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7YWIpEPO2g&feature=youtu.be

Now don't say that. I'm happy for all the cast of the game, and certainly don't mind seeing more of what they can do.
That's actually really nice! Guess Miko doesn't play too differently from HM.

I want to make one for Byakuren, but I think my laptop can't handle recording and making a video for it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Washy on May 12, 2015, 12:03:40 PM
There seem to be some character-specificness going on in the combos here. For example, Mokou's j.5A 4AAA 8A(1 hit) 6B 6CCC (dial this shit like it's MKX) seems to work on Reimu and Byakuren but doesn't on Sukuna for some reason as far as I tested. Of course, my execution isn't exactly great but I can do that one consistently enough.
Not only that, Mokou's basic 6AAAA only connects to characters that lean forward enough when being hit, otherwise to characters like Koishi and Kokoro it won't connect.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: commandercool on May 12, 2015, 01:15:04 PM
Mokou seems to have serious reach problems with her A moves, from the very little messing around with her I've done so far. The hitboxes of most of them barely seem to go past her sprite. She's going to take some figuring out and getting used to, but I like her. I like everybody so far actually, nobody seems not fun to pkay with.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on May 12, 2015, 01:33:38 PM
I was good with Koishi and Futo in HM but now they both feel nigh unplayable :S To my surprise I actually just learned how to play Nitori instead and I might go for Sukuna next. I'm also interested in Kokoro, and maybe Marisa... I haven't gotten around to it much so I've got lots of testing to do!

Is there a wiki of any sort for data on ULiL (as in, data about the character's movesets and/or combos, which the touhou wiki has never really been used for) or any plans for there to be one somewhere in the non-distant future?

edit:Kokoro is too crazy for me, I'll definitely dabble in Sukuna, Marisa and Futo maybe after there's combos out for 'em I can copy. :T
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: LunaWillow on May 12, 2015, 01:36:44 PM
Ah, Moe Harukawa~ I love her style! I hope she'll be drawing for fightning spinoffs from now on... It's just my small wish, though.
I'm a little bit sad dBu made a rock remix of Lost Emotion. His non-rocky songs are amazing, as proven by Serenade in midnight sun and Scherzo of Fairy Wars. That's too bad...
Sumireko's theme is amazing! I love it~ Figthning games last bossess always have good music.
Can't wait to play it myself~
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 12, 2015, 02:03:26 PM
Is there a wiki of any sort for data on ULiL (as in, data about the character's movesets and/or combos, which the touhou wiki has never really been used for) or any plans for there to be one somewhere in the non-distant future?
http://shinpiroku.koumakan.jp/

It's still very much a WIP as the game just came out but any help would be great
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on May 12, 2015, 02:07:16 PM
I was good with Koishi and Futo in HM but now they both feel nigh unplayable :S To my surprise I actually just learned how to play Nitori instead and I might go for Sukuna next. I'm also interested in Kokoro, and maybe Marisa... I haven't gotten around to it much so I've got lots of testing to do!

Exactly the same with Futo. Its quite difficult for me to get some nice combo's.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Shadowlupus on May 12, 2015, 02:24:27 PM
Fun Fact:  You can press up or down during the credit roll scene to make your character fly up or down. It stops at a certain height though.

Also, I found a bug in Ichrin's Story Mode. When I fought Miko's first Occult Spell, sometimes she just flew away to the top of the screen so I could not hit her until I lost a life and she went back down.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 12, 2015, 02:31:14 PM
By the way, I haven't experimented with it much but I think Mokou's LW is about as YOLO as going for instant kills in the Guilty Gear XX games. Anyone know any possible situations where it might be useful or safe?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 12, 2015, 02:38:36 PM
By the way, I haven't experimented with it much but I think Mokou's LW is about as YOLO as going for instant kills in the Guilty Gear XX games. Anyone know any possible situations where it might be useful or safe?
After a guard break.  :V
And even then, I'm not exactly sure if it'll make it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on May 12, 2015, 02:44:02 PM
Some Day 1 stuff with Shinmyoumaru (http://youtu.be/Gy2621n8DrU), if people wanna see.

I wanted to upload this earlier, but my computer crashed hard all of a sudden when I plugged my arcade stick. And then I tried Lossless compression in OBS which Premiere didn't like at all. Whatever. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 12, 2015, 04:48:17 PM
Is there a way to control which school legend Marisa uses? I feel like there should be but I don't think there is.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 12, 2015, 04:50:17 PM
Exactly the same with Futo. Its quite difficult for me to get some nice combo's.

I think that with Futo you dont really need combos, just shoot your opponent from a distance and avoid close combat. Really, her 5c is so good)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 12, 2015, 04:58:10 PM
The only thing i dislike so far is the fact that stages look empty , i mean the saffari you fight Mamizou in, looks sooooo empty as well as the village of lost emotion.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 12, 2015, 05:03:17 PM
Is there a way to control which school legend Marisa uses? I feel like there should be but I don't think there is.

Marisa's school legend goes in set turns.
Piano>Painting>Statue>Basketball>Piano....
You can only plan it ahead before using it

http://shinpiroku.koumakan.jp/

It's still very much a WIP as the game just came out but any help would be great
How to contribute though when we can't freely edit it?
Should we just post the combos and such elsewhere, like here?

The only thing i dislike so far is the fact that stages look empty , i mean the saffari you fight Mamizou in, looks sooooo empty as well as the village of lost emotion.
Since you're comparing it to the spectators in HM, then that's obvious. They won't be able to change much even if they can redo the stages.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 12, 2015, 05:29:39 PM
How to contribute though when we can't freely edit it?
Should we just post the combos and such elsewhere, like here?
You have to talk to I believe Freudian in #shinkirou at irc.rizon.net. He's the one that creates accounts for the wiki.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 12, 2015, 05:44:16 PM
Oh, Kasen's story translation is out.

Well, in her dialogue with
Sumireko she called Kasen a youkai, and our hermit didn't deny it. Probably because she just didn't care about what a girl from the Outside thinks, but still, a nice touch.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on May 12, 2015, 06:30:13 PM
Oh, Kasen's story translation is out.

Well, in her dialogue with
Sumireko she called Kasen a youkai, and our hermit didn't deny it. Probably because she just didn't care about what a girl from the Outside thinks, but still, a nice touch.
Including stuff that's been said in written works, it's -heavily- implied Kasen is an oni.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dude on May 12, 2015, 06:31:49 PM
So apparently having a ufo and a rabbit out at the same time with mamizou crashes the game :V

...meaning I can't beat her in story mode :<
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 12, 2015, 07:03:59 PM
Including stuff that's been said in written works, it's -heavily- implied Kasen is an oni.

I know) It's just that she always denied this before.

So apparently having a ufo and a rabbit out at the same time with mamizou crashes the game :V

Mamizou crashed game for me once too, but restarting helped.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: the old guy on May 12, 2015, 07:41:05 PM
Including stuff that's been said in written works, it's -heavily- implied Kasen is an oni.
The cats technically out of the bag already,
a editorial text in WAHH Chapter 21 (http://hungry0bookworm.tumblr.com/post/89564151796/touhou-ibarakasen-wild-and-horned-hermit-chapter) slipped that Kasen is an oni.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on May 12, 2015, 07:52:23 PM
The main point is that, in-story, it is quite clear Kasen has always seen herself as a youkai despite denying the fact to so many others.  In her conversation with Semireko, she really really seems to be rolling with it.  She doesn't deny it at all and begins discussing everything with Sumireko from a youkai's point of view. Likely as pointed out, this is because there's no point to her keeping up the masquerade with an outside human.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 12, 2015, 07:55:28 PM
Could someone explain how Mami's occult skill works please? I throw the capsule and then what?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Margatron on May 12, 2015, 10:38:55 PM
Could someone explain how Mami's occult skill works please? I throw the capsule and then what?

Press 6 + (A+B) to activate the monster ball - oh excuse me I meant the capsule.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gilde on May 12, 2015, 11:01:39 PM
Could someone explain how Mami's occult skill works please? I throw the capsule and then what?

Pressing A+B like usual throws a capsule; pressing A+B while holding forward activates any capsules present.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 12, 2015, 11:48:42 PM
Some spoilers:

http://hungry0bookworm.tumblr.com/post/118812719761/supraliminally-reblogged-your-post-bursts-into
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: spazzmahtazz on May 13, 2015, 12:14:48 AM
I'm having trouble opening the exe, sadly :( can anyone help me fix this? i really want to play this game. ahh.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 13, 2015, 01:22:50 AM
Quote
Press 6 + (A+B) to activate the monster ball - oh excuse me I meant the capsule.
Quote
Pressing A+B like usual throws a capsule; pressing A+B while holding forward activates any capsules present.
Ah ok, thank you. I would always throw my pokeball but then I wondered how to release the power that's inside :3

Quote
Some spoilers:

http://hungry0bookworm.tumblr.com/post/118812719761/supraliminally-reblogged-your-post-bursts-into

No! They didn't tell me why Koishi and Kokoro were fighting. Their stories sounded like journeys of self discovery from what Japanese I could understand.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Your Everyday NEET on May 13, 2015, 01:23:40 AM
Quote
- Turbo Granny gave me so much trouble I kept throwing myself right at the motorcycle gfhdhjgfg
I lost two lives thanks to that piece of crap. Her weakness is right at the freaking center or behind the motorcycle and it's also not grazeable. Once you get the hang of it though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2015, 03:57:05 AM
No! They didn't tell me why Koishi and Kokoro were fighting. Their stories sounded like journeys of self discovery from what Japanese I could understand.

Er... not really.
They're both just playing around with their urban legends. Koishi is trying to scare people, but it doesn't work too well since most people in Gensokyo have no idea what a phone is. Eventually she wanders to where Mamizou and Kasen are enacting their plan, and accidentally attacks the final boss.

Kokoro's a bit more interesting, since she seems to have been damaged and seriously believes that she's the kuchisake-onna. Her mask was scratched along the mouth, which I guess is sort of like brain damage for her. Once she realizes this, she goes to look for Miko, so she can get her mask repaired, but Miko is busy with her own plan and doesn't have time for her.

So basically they're both kids who get in the way while the adults are working.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 13, 2015, 04:18:56 AM
Quote
They're both just playing around with their urban legends. Koishi is trying to scare people, but it doesn't work too well since most people in Gensokyo have no idea what a phone is. Eventually she wanders to where Mamizou and Kasen are enacting their plan, and accidentally attacks the final boss.

Kokoro's a bit more interesting, since she seems to have been damaged and seriously believes that she's the kuchisake-onna. Her mask was scratched along the mouth, which I guess is sort of like brain damage for her. Once she realizes this, she goes to look for Miko, so she can get her mask repaired, but Miko is busy with her own plan and doesn't have time for her.

So basically they're both kids who get in the way while the adults are working.
I don't know, I still kind of feel like Koishi's story is a huge step in her trying to connect with people that I kind of theorized in an earlier post. And I find Kokoro's both fascinating and a bit sad really. Even though she may be trying to find her own sense of youkai-ness this shows that her masks are still an essential part of her and directly influence what she may be doing or feeling. I don't know, maybe I just expected her to be an independent tsukumogami that controlled 66 other tsukumogami...

And this was just a random thought, but what if
Sumireko, through some paranormal events, is split into Renko and Maribel/Yukari?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: the old guy on May 13, 2015, 07:02:42 AM
You know, i hope that
Sumireko
means that Yukari will make a return in a future game, since shes strangely fallen off the grid in recent games (Other than that one chapter of WAHH, where she probably made a bare faced half-lie towrds Kasen, and SA), and with Mokou being in this game, its not unthinkable that she'll make a come back in the near future IMO.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on May 13, 2015, 08:51:54 AM
Quote
You know, i hope that
Sumireko
means that Yukari will make a return in a future game, since shes strangely fallen off the grid in recent games (Other than that one chapter of WAHH, where she probably made a bare faced half-lie towrds Kasen, and SA), and with Mokou being in this game, its not unthinkable that she'll make a come back in the near future IMO.
I was just thinking about that and I feel like Yukari is practically required to make an appearance now. I mean,
the border to the outside world being broken seems like it should be a big deal to her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: WenYang on May 13, 2015, 10:15:20 AM
You know, i hope that
Sumireko
means that Yukari will make a return in a future game, since shes strangely fallen off the grid in recent games (Other than that one chapter of WAHH, where she probably made a bare faced half-lie towrds Kasen, and SA), and with Mokou being in this game, its not unthinkable that she'll make a come back in the near future IMO.

Lie? What lie?

I'd be more surprised if Yukari ISN'T feeding the youkai in gensokyo via outside world humans. Those Youkais need to eat too, y'know.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 13, 2015, 11:29:19 AM
So am I the only one that thinks that Sumireko's theme sounds a tiiiny bit like Greenwich in the Sky at some parts? Which is quite fitting, of course.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 13, 2015, 12:31:20 PM
I'd be more surprised if Yukari ISN'T feeding the youkai in gensokyo via outside world humans. Those Youkais need to eat too, y'know.
They don't need to actually eat humans  though. If one does so, it's just them being picky or cruel enough to consume fellow sapient species:

Quote from: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Youkai (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Youkai)
*Youkai have longer lifespans than humans. *Youkai have stronger bodies than humans, so even if they're split into five parts, they heal right away. *Youkai are more easily affected by belief than humans, and as a result spiritual damage can cause fatal wounds. *Youkai generally do not move in groups. *Youkai only think of themselves. Youkai are the most dangerous enemies to humans. However, since they are rather varied, one must be informed of each of their traits before heading out to exterminate them.

Potential Harm
Kidnapping, Prededation, Livestock Theft, Crop Theft
Humans have no greater enemy than youkai. Youkai attack humans for food. However, most do not attack when they are full and satisfied. If the human population drops, youkai will face trouble as well. They do not eat only humans, but animals, birds, fish, vegetables, fruits, alcohol and other things humans normally eat. Still, they consider humans a delicacy above all else. They steal crops and livestock as well. This is also serious problem.

Countermeasures
Unless one thoroughly trains in fighting against them, youkai extermination is difficult. Youkai have a history of being physically stronger than humans, and trying to fight them may quickly end up as feeding them. However, the reason most youkai attack humans is because they need prey. That's why one should offer something else to eat in place of themselves. Offering a cow will save you from being attacked for a while. There are many that have a strong sense of duty, and will befriend those who do not turn against them.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 13, 2015, 12:56:51 PM
I think that humans Yukari spirits away serve not as actual food, but as "food for thought", youkais feed on their fear and realization that all those horror stories and legends were true. And after a while Yukari returns them to Outside, where they will probably end up in retreat or, if they are lucky, forget about this nightmare.

Also youkai actually did eat humans, but not after establishing of Hakurei Barrier and especially not after establishing Spell Card rules.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on May 13, 2015, 01:58:39 PM
They don't need to actually eat humans  though. If one does so, it's just them being picky or cruel enough to consume fellow sapient species:
They are *meant* to be cruel human-eaters. Most of them at least.

And after a while Yukari returns them to Outside, where they will probably end up in retreat or, if they are lucky, forget about this nightmare.

Also youkai actually did eat humans, but not after establishing of Hakurei Barrier and especially not after establishing Spell Card rules.

Actually, Akyuu pretty much says that outsiders ending in Gensokyo are left alone without being helped, unless they manage to reach the village and settle there or ask for help to the Hakurei shrine maiden, but most of them get eaten because they aren't able to recognize a youkai (and even if they could, escaping would be basically impossible). Even PCB prologue says that almost noone manages to get back to their world.
Because honestly, why should Yukari bother to return them to the outside herself? She isn't a nice person to begin with (not for humans), and i see no reason for her to worry if a human from outside gets killed/eaten. They aren't important.

The SC rules only protect the villagers, not *every* human in existence. It's known that youkai go on hunting trips in the outside world to hunt humans, and the vampires of the SDM are known to feed on humans too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 13, 2015, 02:45:55 PM
*sound of realizing* Ah, I would really like to chat about that and everything, but this is a thread for ULiL) We probably strayed a bit too much.

Also, some more spoilers: http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/118817504901/urban-legend-in-limbo
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 13, 2015, 03:19:50 PM
To people who know the plot clearly: do all the characters actually fit into the plot properly and not look like they are forced into it for the sake of filling up the roster without having to create too many new characters?

Yeah, I'm still salty about the roster... :(

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on May 13, 2015, 03:40:01 PM
not look like they are forced into it for the sake of filling up the roster without having to create too many new characters?
it'd be a pretty big waste to -not- reuse all the assets they'd already made, so
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 13, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
Nothing wrong with reusing assets, but that isn't really an excuse to make little new contents.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on May 13, 2015, 04:36:00 PM
Nothing wrong with reusing assets, but that isn't really an excuse to make little new contents.
It's pretty much the exact same thing that happened between IaMP and SWR. It was to be expected.

And being salty about the roster doesn't make much sense, considering the way the previous figthers went. ULiL added 4 characters. SWR added 5 (and removed Meiling). Considering the sprite resolution of the current games (which are quite higher than the ones in IaMP/SWR/HST), it's surprising that they managed to make 4 fully new characters in addition to making new sprites for existing characters at all, really.

Unless you meant that a character you wanted didn't appear. In which case, join the club :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 13, 2015, 04:47:07 PM
This game is very different from HM and 2D fighting game sequels rarely have more than 4~6 new characters. Stop complaining.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 13, 2015, 04:55:34 PM
At leats it's not like Guilty Gear Xrd where the roster got cut down because custom-shaded-every-frame faux-2D 3D is really frakkin' hard. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: commandercool on May 13, 2015, 06:00:51 PM
Played a bunch of matches last night. Everyone I forced to play with me liked it, even people who hated HM.

We have a few questions though.

-What is the "future" stat on each super?

-What exactly does the black hole weather/event do?

-What exactly are the requirements to use a Last Word? We worked out that you need a certain number of balls (four?) but that's it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 13, 2015, 06:06:37 PM
-What exactly does the black hole weather/event do?

It drains your health and creates "white" health, similar to Mokou's white health. It drains your regular health faster the closer you are to the center. If both players survive, at the end of the event both players will have their white health return to blue. However, if one player dies (blue health drained), then they lose the round.

Quote
-What exactly are the requirements to use a Last Word? We worked out that you need a certain number of balls (four?) but that's it.
Hit the spell card button and C at the same time, have at least 4 occult balls, and be in the neutral line for it to activate. The more occult balls you have, the more damage it does.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 13, 2015, 07:02:39 PM

-What is the "future" stat on each super?


I'm fairly certain the future stat is the duration of the spellcards after casting. Ones like Marisa's satellite shield has a high future stat due to it staying out while you can still fight, while her dash has a lower future stat due to it being done fairly soon after casting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 13, 2015, 07:05:47 PM
To people who know the plot clearly: do all the characters actually fit into the plot properly and not look like they are forced into it for the sake of filling up the roster without having to create too many new characters?

Most of them are irrelevant. The religious cast has this little mini-conflict about how to handle the orbs, but that only shows up in Miko and Byakuren's routes so Ichirin and Futo are still irrelevant (they were irrelevant in HM too, so nothing changes there). People like Mokou, Shinmyoumaru, and Ichirin are just gathering the orbs without much thought. Some of the others just have their own problems that are tangentially related to the orbs. Overall, I'd say the plot is closer to SWR style than the other games: a bunch of characters doing their own thing and one major plot thread you can follow by doing certain people's routes.

I'd say the only necessary plot-related people are Reimu, Marisa, Kasen, Miko, Mamizou, and Sumireko.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 13, 2015, 07:07:38 PM
Played a bunch of matches last night. Everyone I forced to play with me liked it, even people who hated HM.

We have a few questions though.

-What is the "future" stat on each super?


It indicates how long is the duration, and the effect of that particular spellcard. Whether it's the attack hitbox, or the long startup and recovery.
This is why SCs like Marisa's Blazing Star, Byakuren's Three Thousand Worlds, Kasen's Dragon Growl, Sumireko's 3D Printed Gun, and all of Mokou's have low Future stats. They only stay on screen for a short time.
In contrast, Reimu's Yin Yang Ball, Marisa's Satellite Illusion, Kasen's  Hawk Beacon, Byakuren's Mahavairocana and Buddha Chop(due to the slooow startup), Futo's Bad Omen, Nitori's Bubble Gun, and Shinmyoumaru's Issun Boshi all have high Future stats because they stay active for quite a long time.

And about the LW, I find it quite a shame that you can only do it on the middle ground. I think that's one thing that I'd like to change.

Unrelated, but I found a neat trick.
Apparently, Byakuren can activate her Mahavairocana counter without being attacked by the opponent. Just throw a Vajra bullet, and try to catch it while you prepare the counter. The bounced Vajra actually counts as a hit, which activates the SC counter. This is certainly exploitable. Probably gonna use it more now.
Here's a video of a guy who shows how it's done (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru9PoKt66yk&feature=youtu.be).

Most of them are irrelevant. The religious cast has this little mini-conflict about how to handle the orbs, but that only shows up in Miko and Byakuren's routes so Ichirin and Futo are still irrelevant (they were irrelevant in HM too, so nothing changes there). People like Mokou, Shinmyoumaru, and Ichirin are just gathering the orbs without much thought. Some of the others just have their own problems that are tangentially related to the orbs. Overall, I'd say the plot is closer to SWR style than the other games: a bunch of characters doing their own thing and one major plot thread you can follow by doing certain people's routes.

I'd say the only necessary plot-related people are Reimu, Marisa, Kasen, Miko, Mamizou, and Sumireko.

Yeah, if it's specifically dealing with Sumireko, then only some of them did much. But if it's about how to handle the ball and knowing the nature of this Urban Legend phenomenon, then the others also plays their part. Even though those that only did their own stuff may not have a lot of impact to the incident, they still can mean something to themselves depending on how you interpret it. I especially liked how Koishi's now confirmed to return to Chireiden and interact with Satori. That's a great progress!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Patorikku on May 13, 2015, 07:36:54 PM
-What is the "future" stat on each super?
From what I can determine from each of the spellcards with a high future stat opposed to the lower future stats, it's mostly how long the spellcard is active when it's used, or how long it takes for the effect of the card to take place. Spellcards with next to immediate effects have a much lower future stat, while something like Futo's curse bubble thing or Marisa's Orreries Sun that dishes its effect much later or can take on their intended effect longer will have a larger future stat.

Nevermind, listen to the guy above me. Instead, lemme offer some of my Week 1 knowledge on playing Mokou for all y'all fellow Mokou players.

- When in occult mode, you can use 6B > 6CCC as either a combo of its own, as part of any combo that already uses that sequence, or as a competent blockstring after omitting the second last and/or last 6C. Occult mode gives 6B a piercing effect that allows the large fireball projectile to blast right past the opponent after its initial hit and continue to explode into the firebirds as it would if it hadn't immediately connected outside of occult mode. 6C can help abuse this by keeping the opponent level enough to get struck with all of 6B's projectiles while still smacking them silly.

- j.5A is a fantastic addition to most midscreen jab combos, and will typically add anywhere from 300 - 500 damage to the overall combo. For example, a BnB discovered by seodah of r/touhou, both with and without j.5A:
Code: [Select]
(4)AAA > 2A > 2B > 3jc > j.5A > j.6A > 4C - Stun 100 - Damage 2458
j.5A > (4)AAA > 2A > 2B > 3jc > j.5A > j.6A > 4C - Stun 100 - Damage 2821
The latter's damage will also reach 3.6k damage when the full string is done in occult mode.

- Mokou's third spellcard, the amulet spread, is basically a suppression attack. Its chip damage is enormous in comparison to most other spellcards whereas its regular damage leaves a lot to be desired, but it can also come out much more often than Mokou's other spellcards. If your opponent is recovering from a combo or is stuck in a blockstring, use this card as oki or to extend the blockstring to rack up chip damage in the corner. Be advised, though, that the amulets will do white damage to Mokou if she touches them.

- If you have a combo that uses the 6B > 6CCC string in occult mode, declare a spellcard right as the first 6C hit comes out, and dish out another 6B > 6CCC string. Hell, just do that combo raw if you get a 6B hit confirm. The damage from an occult mode 6B > 6C > D > 6B > 6CCC combo is 3.7k with full stun. As well, below is an actual combo, both with and without j.5A using said declare cancel. Please note the combo can be done without the declare cancel by simply continuing the 6C string beforehand. Please also note that the third 6C hit will always whiff in occult, which makes the combo unsafe, but it still remains severely damaging.
Code: [Select]
(4)AAA > 8A(1) > 6B > 6C > D > 6B > 6CC(C) - Damage 2546/3732
j.5A > (4)AAA > 8A(1) > 6B > 6C > D > 6B > 6CC(C) - Damage 2960/4296

EDIT: Tildes were replaced with proper notation because I am a derp.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 13, 2015, 09:09:32 PM
Jesus, I know the terminology for the fighting game moves, but that is rather complex. Explain like I'm five, for the noobs and I?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on May 13, 2015, 09:55:43 PM
http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Notation

That should be clear, however we seem to be using ~ not as a piano motion, but rather as a "this is your last hit of your autocombo".  I'm not quite sure why, but hey.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: the old guy on May 13, 2015, 10:07:38 PM
Lie? What lie?

I'd be more surprised if Yukari ISN'T feeding the youkai in gensokyo via outside world humans. Those Youkais need to eat too, y'know.

I wasn't saying that Youkai eating humans and Yukari feeding them was a lie, that is OBVIOUSLY canon, i was talking about when Yukari implied to Kasen in that chapter that humans are purely in Gensokyo for the benefit of the Youkai ("Youkai have to get their food from somewhere") and that the Zashiki-Warashi were spying on the human village to make them easier to eat or something like that, i think that was a "Bare-Faced Half-Lie" for reasons that Tiamat (This forums Grand Scholar of Anything Yukari Yakumo.) and others explained well in this thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17575.msg1140397.html#msg1140397) (Basically, Yukari was trying make Kasen act more "Youkai-like").

There is also the factor that Yukari sort of stated that the Yashiki-Warashi were spying on the human village because it makes them easier to hunt, which is think is a OUT RIGHT LIE because it is canonically stated that the village is under protection from the Youkai.

THAT is what i was talking about.
(Personally i think they were spying on the village to make sure that the Human's don't start a revolution against the Youkai and try to destroy Gensokyo, like the Enigmatic History Society wants to do.)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Patorikku on May 13, 2015, 10:08:13 PM
http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Notation

That should be clear, however we seem to be using ~ not as a piano motion, but rather as a "this is your last hit of your autocombo".  I'm not quite sure why, but hey.
I think I got that from the combo listings for UNIEL's Byakuya on mizuumi. Is that what's going on with those? No wonder I'm always dropping those combos. :V

Yeah, I'll edit that post up and put in some proper notation to avoid confusion. My bad.  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Hawk on May 13, 2015, 10:21:25 PM
I dunno, I've seen ~ be used both for pianoing and for longer-than-normal delays.  The FGC doesn't seem too consistent about it.

But either way, the autocombo finisher is neither of those.  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on May 13, 2015, 11:42:37 PM
There is also the factor that Yukari sort of stated that the Yashiki-Warashi were spying on the human village because it makes them easier to hunt
What? That's not at all the reason she gave as to why the Yashiki-Warashi's are there.

(Personally i think they were spying on the village to make sure that the Human's don't start a revolution against the Youkai and try to destroy Gensokyo, like the Enigmatic History Society wants to do.)
THIS is exactly why they are there. As Yukari herself says on page 19:

Quote from: Yukari
[The Yashiki-Warashi] watch over the Human Village. In other words, spies. When humans gather, they start thinking of doing bad things. So we need to watch over them to see that those kinds of people don't appear.
That comment about filling youkai stomachs most likely refers to humans from the outside world, considering that Yukari then mentions that the Yashiki-Warashis being called on the Outside takes precedence over their jobs of watching the village. Kasen muses on that and seems to be on track to figure out what exactly Yukari is going for, but then Yukari stops her and says the "getting enough food to fill the stomachs of its youkai from somewhere" line.

Nowhere in this is implied that the humans from the village are possible targets as a food source.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 14, 2015, 12:15:19 AM
Unrelated, but I found a neat trick.
Apparently, Byakuren can activate her Mahavairocana counter without being attacked by the opponent. Just throw a Vajra bullet, and try to catch it while you prepare the counter. The bounced Vajra actually counts as a hit, which activates the SC counter. This is certainly exploitable. Probably gonna use it more now.
Here's a video of a guy who shows how it's done (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru9PoKt66yk&feature=youtu.be).
Unabara noticed (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/598425938703986688) people's discovery of the combo. It seems the combo is intentionally designed.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 14, 2015, 01:40:32 AM
Unabara noticed (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/598425938703986688) people's discovery of the combo. It seems the combo is intentionally designed.

Yeah, I read his tweet too. Hopefully it is intentional and not a bug, 'cause I'm loving it
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 14, 2015, 03:27:39 AM
Okay, after a few days of playing this game on netplay on stuff, I can safely assume that I don't like this game. I would go into detail but I'll do that tomorrow. I got work, but atm the short version is that the weather ball occult system is almost as bad as I feared.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sahuaro on May 14, 2015, 04:21:09 AM
How Gpop? I feel they are less instrusive than SWR weathers were... still not great but deffnly less chaotic
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 14, 2015, 04:30:36 AM
Okay, after a few days of playing this game on netplay on stuff, I can safely assume that I don't like this game. I would go into detail but I'll do that tomorrow. I got work, but atm the short version is that the weather ball occult system is almost as bad as I feared.

I can see that they may cause slight annoyance, but the most distracting one is when you try to chase the ball instead. Not the effects.
Still, I'd like to hear you elaborate on that and hear your reasons.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2015, 06:24:14 AM
It's pretty much the exact same thing that happened between IaMP and SWR. It was to be expected.
10.5 at least added one extra character, so it wouldn't have hurt to add one more to this game.  Adding only four feels like a step back.

I just feel like there are some other characters that can take advantage of urban legends more, like Kogasa (constantly trying to surprise people), Aya (gatherer of news and rumors), Sanae (urban legends are more well known in the outside world), etc.  It feels like a wasted potential to not use such characters.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on May 14, 2015, 06:29:50 AM
If we are talking about Urban Legends, the characters fit them well. But that is unrelated to the plot.

I also feel that Sanae should have been in this game, since High School mysteries is really right in her field. And her interaction with Sumireko would be interesting. But I was almost certain she won't be, because she is an existing fighting game character.

That said, the character interactions are interesting. You get to see more character associations than in the past games. At least that is how it feels like.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2015, 07:08:30 AM
If we are talking about Urban Legends, the characters fit them well. But that is unrelated to the plot.

I also feel that Sanae should have been in this game, since High School mysteries is really right in her field. And her interaction with Sumireko would be interesting. But I was almost certain she won't be, because she is an existing fighting game character.

That said, the character interactions are interesting. You get to see more character associations than in the past games. At least that is how it feels like.
I feel like some of the current urban legends can fit well with some other characters.  For example, Aya goes well with the Turbo Granny one, since speed is her thing.  Sekibanki goes well with the red and blue toilet papers one, since that one involves head-related fatalities, and she's all about "losing her head." Her cape is even red and blue.  Hasshaku can go along with Sanae, since it involves buses, and being from the outside world...  Yeah...

Don't get why Ichirin's UL is Hasshaku and also Marisa's UL, though...

Let's hope there will be a 12.3-style expansion pack that satisfies things.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Darkness1 on May 14, 2015, 07:24:37 AM
I always thought Nue would be a new character for this game, since she even got spellcards based on the urban legends.

Also, this one might be a "dumb" question, but for someone not too familiar with all the characters, what is the symbolism for the newer Mamizou transformations? Like Sukuna being an oyster, Sumireko a ghost etc.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2015, 07:41:45 AM
I always thought Nue would be a new character for this game, since she even got spellcards based on the urban legends.

Also, this one might be a "dumb" question, but for someone not too familiar with all the characters, what is the symbolism for the newer Mamizou transformations? Like Sukuna being an oyster, Sumireko a ghost etc.
I don't think there's really a symbolism for the transformations in the first place.  Some have, but not all.  Some like Byakuren becoming a mouse, Koishi becoming a cat, and Futo becoming a chicken are pretty random.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 14, 2015, 07:49:29 AM
Shinmyoumaru being an oyster is obviously just because she's sitting in a bowl.

Regarding who would make better use of urban legends, I think that's completely missing the point. The story isn't about who can use urban legends the best. And HM wasn't about the religious war either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 14, 2015, 08:07:12 AM
In fact, I don't think Mokou even uses one at all, she just does her own thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tomion on May 14, 2015, 08:44:22 AM
In fact, I don't think Mokou even uses one at all, she just does her own thing.
Some girls just wanna see the world burns.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Lightseeker on May 14, 2015, 09:19:10 AM
For example, Aya goes well with the Turbo Granny one, since speed is her thing.
The "granny" part doesn't fit her though.

In fact, I don't think Mokou even uses one at all, she just does her own thing.
She does. Her urban legend is based on spontaneous human combustion.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 14, 2015, 10:08:26 AM
She does. Her urban legend is based on spontaneous human combustion.
Huh, never considered that. It seemed a bit too general for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on May 14, 2015, 10:26:32 AM


Don't get why Ichirin's UL is Hasshaku and also Marisa's UL, though...

Ichirin's Urban Legend is that she uses "very tall youkai" (the urban legend of every character is described in their game title).
This is because Hasshaku-sama's trait is that she's really tall, and nyuudou like Unzan also become gradually taller as humans try to see their face (hence his named ability of growing in size at will), usually killing them when they succeed. In DS is explained that they do this because they are really shy and don't like their face being seen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2015, 10:28:58 AM
The "granny" part doesn't fit her though.
At least the speed part does.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 14, 2015, 10:42:28 AM
It's like what Clarste said there. The point of the story is not the urban legend, it's about an outsider wanting to get into Gensoukyo. The urban legend itself is just a side effect, which plays a role of a usable plot point. Same thing with the popularity contest and all the religious stuff are just pretext, when the main focus is how to restore Kokoro's control of emotion.

What urban legend got in and who's using it, does not matter much. Even so, that doesn't mean popularity and urban legend can't be the focus of other characters' story.

And about the Mokou thing, there's an explanation for that actually. In Byakuren's story mode, she noticed that Mokou is unaware that she's holding an occult herself. So she didn't pick that urban legend, like Byakuren for example, it just came to her because of the Occult Ball. It shows that the occult power is something uncontrolable and unknown, which is the reason Byakuren gather them to seal it. The odd nature of the balls happens in other story arc too.
The Occult Ball power to "teleport" things are teased in Byakuren's and Miko's story and ending, and with Miko, shows that it can only connect between 2 worlds(thus it won't function in Senkai so it stays where Miko puts them, whereas it teleported the Buddha statue where Byakuren sealed it in her temple. Byakuren also speculates that it will also affect living beings.)
Go to Ichirin's ending, where she's transported to the Outside World, it shows the actual effect of the Occult Ball and how being in the Outside World affects her.
So even though the others may not do something direct about Sumireko, their part in the story helps us unveil the nature of this Occult Ball and, you know, make the story more complete instead of having to explain them all with just a few characters story arc. Not to mention those who knew about the balls true purpose refused to explain it clearly.

Of course, there are those like Koishi and Kokoro where their story is essentialy about themselves, the urban legend is simply something motivate it. I like their development in this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on May 14, 2015, 11:08:34 AM
Can anyone translate the VS Network menu, if it isn't already somewhere? A short explanation on how to use it would also be appreciated. I haven't played netplay since SWR and am kinda interested in getting back into it with ULiL.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on May 14, 2015, 11:24:23 AM
10.5 at least added one extra character, so it wouldn't have hurt to add one more to this game.  Adding only four feels like a step back.
Like I said, this is likely because of the sprite resolution used. HM/ULiL sprites are far more detailed than previous ones, so it takes longer to make them. And a 14 character roster is a good enough selection. A single less character is a really silly thing to complain about, considering that this is not a giant company with a ton of resources at their disposal.

And about the characters that you feel that should've made in... Well, clastre already gave a good explanation for that
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 14, 2015, 11:52:54 AM
The fighting game wiki has the interfaces translated (http://shinpiroku.koumakan.jp/wiki/Netplay).

I don't think there's really a symbolism for the transformations in the first place.  Some have, but not all.  Some like Byakuren becoming a mouse, Koishi becoming a cat, and Futo becoming a chicken are pretty random.
The transformations reflect Mamizou's impression of the characters. Koishi becoming a cat is obvious: a cat is her own master, coming and going at will, not subject to anyone's orders. Sumireko has tried hard to make herself a spooky kid no one wants to be friends with. For Kasen, I think Mamizou finds her sneaky, made more dangerous by her inconspicuous and helpful appearance.

I had already explained Futo becoming a chicken: the chicken is the sacred animal of the Mononobe family shrine. More importantly, Futo is a big coward.

Plenty of people pointed out why Mokou becomes the fire rat: the fire rat robe was one of Kaguya's seven requests.

Hijiri becoming a mouse is the only one that's not readily apparent. It might be a reference to the iron rat monk (http://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/04/08/tesso-the-iron-rat/) legend, mentioned in last year's Forbidden Scrollery. ZUN's favorite writer, Kyogoku Natsuhiko also wrote a novel based on the legend.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 14, 2015, 02:03:25 PM
Unrelated, but I found a neat trick.
Apparently, Byakuren can activate her Mahavairocana counter without being attacked by the opponent. Just throw a Vajra bullet, and try to catch it while you prepare the counter. The bounced Vajra actually counts as a hit, which activates the SC counter. This is certainly exploitable. Probably gonna use it more now.
Here's a video of a guy who shows how it's done (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru9PoKt66yk&feature=youtu.be).

I did this in practice mode, but I only got to far 1 or 2 prongs.
Around 5.3k Damage for one, and 5.5 Damage for 2.
I don't get how the uploader got to fire 3 prongs...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 14, 2015, 02:14:12 PM
I did this in practice mode, but I only got to far 1 or 2 prongs.
Around 5.3k Damage for one, and 5.5 Damage for 2.
I don't get how the uploader got to fire 3 prongs...

...catch 2 vajras prior to throwing them again?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2015, 03:25:26 PM
So basically, the reason for the roster is this: it's too much work to create new characters for a small-scaled company that has to release the game in a rather short amount of time.

Right?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on May 14, 2015, 03:28:25 PM
So basically, the reason for the roster is this: it's too much work to create new characters for a small-scaled company that has to release the game in a rather short amount of time.

Right?
It seems the most likely reason to me, yes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2015, 03:45:53 PM
It seems the most likely reason to me, yes.
Gotta deal with it and wait for the possible expansion pack, then.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 14, 2015, 04:04:35 PM
So basically, the reason for the roster is this: it's too much work to create new characters for a small-scaled company that has to release the game in a rather short amount of time.

Right?

Did you ignore my post? 4 new characters is the ~average~ number of new characters for a ~2D fighting game sequel~, ~regardless of the size of the company~. You've been doing little more than complain about new characters for months and it's starting to get annoying.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 14, 2015, 04:11:49 PM
So after messing around with Miko trying to figure out combos, there's one thing regarding the cape I don't understand. What determines the direction Miko throws the opponent? It doesn't seem like I can control it, is that up to the enemy as well? There have been times ( mainly near the edge ) where I follow up with a spellcard cancel -> laser, but miss because it throws them against the nearby wall, and then vice-versa when I try to use close range as a follow up but it throws them against the far wall and I miss the chance to use a laser.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2015, 04:30:23 PM
You've been doing little more than complain about new characters for months and it's starting to get annoying.
Better than Sakurei complaining about the death of the series, at least.

If my complains annoy you, then you should seriously stay away from gaming forums such as GameFaqs.  My complains are very tame compared to the death threats to developers, threats of boycotting, lengthy rants, angry shouting, etc. you find in those sites.  I usually don't express my complaints to other people.  I really only do so if it's something that really annoys or disappoints me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 14, 2015, 04:32:57 PM
Better than Sakurei complaining about the death of the series, at least.
what
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 14, 2015, 04:35:26 PM
what
The last good Touhou game to her is apparently 12.8.  She's been saying negative things about the series ever since, as you can see in 14.3 and 15's threads.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 14, 2015, 05:25:36 PM
So after messing around with Miko trying to figure out combos, there's one thing regarding the cape I don't understand. What determines the direction Miko throws the opponent? It doesn't seem like I can control it, is that up to the enemy as well? There have been times ( mainly near the edge ) where I follow up with a spellcard cancel -> laser, but miss because it throws them against the nearby wall, and then vice-versa when I try to use close range as a follow up but it throws them against the far wall and I miss the chance to use a laser.
Bassically the direction Miko throws the enemy is the oposite direction of the colour of the cape, here is an example:

http://postimg.org/image/864d1qxl9/

Here you can see the way the colours of the cape are facing

http://postimg.org/image/ov5sxnu6l/

Miko chose Blue

http://postimg.org/image/bi2nv1pcd/

Miko chose Red

The capes basically go the opposite direction they are facing
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 14, 2015, 06:00:31 PM
Huh, I guess I really didn't notice that. Kinda feel silly now, haha.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 14, 2015, 06:10:53 PM
The last good Touhou game to her is apparently 12.8.  She's been saying negative things about the series ever since, as you can see in 14.3 and 15's threads.
Oh I misread it as Sakurai so I was totally confused at first. Now I remember her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on May 14, 2015, 06:21:17 PM
If my complains annoy you, then you should seriously stay away from gaming forums such as GameFaqs.  My complains are very tame compared to the death threats to developers, threats of boycotting, lengthy rants, angry shouting, etc. you find in those sites.

But we're not on GameFAQs, we're on MotK. If you're this annoyed to the point where other folks are telling you to cool it, maybe step away from the thread for a while. Everyone will feel better.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: the old guy on May 14, 2015, 09:04:50 PM
What? That's not at all the reason she gave as to why the Yashiki-Warashi's are there.
THIS is exactly why they are there. As Yukari herself says on page 19:
That comment about filling youkai stomachs most likely refers to humans from the outside world, considering that Yukari then mentions that the Yashiki-Warashis being called on the Outside takes precedence over their jobs of watching the village. Kasen muses on that and seems to be on track to figure out what exactly Yukari is going for, but then Yukari stops her and says the "getting enough food to fill the stomachs of its youkai from somewhere" line.

Nowhere in this is implied that the humans from the village are possible targets as a food source.

Oh.
Oops, guess i was getting that line mixed up with another one she said. And i misunderstanded the "enough food to fill blah blah blah" line as well.
That said, i still do think that Yukari kind of lied a little to Kasen when she implied that the humans where only there for the Youkai.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sedrife on May 14, 2015, 09:47:57 PM
Oh.
Oops, guess i was getting that line mixed up with another one she said. And i misunderstanded the "enough food to fill blah blah blah" line as well.
That said, i still do think that Yukari kind of lied a little to Kasen when she implied that the humans where only there for the Youkai.

TH14.5 left me convinced that once you land in Gensokyo, if you are not strong enough to survive the youkais, you are dead.  End of story.  It does not matter whether it's human from outside world with no talents, or humans from Gensokyo village who's stupid enough to roam around the night.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on May 14, 2015, 10:46:14 PM
...catch 2 vajras prior to throwing them again?

Well that works~
Didn't know you could catch 'em...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 15, 2015, 03:40:07 AM
Did you ignore my post? 4 new characters is the ~average~ number of new characters for a ~2D fighting game sequel~, ~regardless of the size of the company~. You've been doing little more than complain about new characters for months and it's starting to get annoying.
To answer your question: I think I have or maybe not, but whatever the case is, you didn't say why they only make a few characters for 2D games.  Yes, I know high quality sprites are harder and more time consuming to make than 3D models, but it's not like its impossible to create a lot if one is given a lot of time.  There is no golden rule saying that one can only create a limited amount of new characters per game for sequels using the same engine after all.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on May 15, 2015, 06:08:45 AM
Quote
I feel like some of the current urban legends can fit well with some other characters.  For example, Aya goes well with the Turbo Granny one, since speed is her thing.  Sekibanki goes well with the red and blue toilet papers one, since that one involves head-related fatalities, and she's all about "losing her head." Her cape is even red and blue.  Hasshaku can go along with Sanae, since it involves buses, and being from the outside world...  Yeah...

Don't get why Ichirin's UL is Hasshaku and also Marisa's UL, though...

It fits the characters in Urban Legend in Limbo.
You can't argue that Byakuren doesn't fit Turbo Granny.
You also can't argue that Sekibanki fits better than Miko, since Red/Blue is Miko's thing in Hopeless Masquerade. There are other characters with red/blue deal, like Chen, but Miko is previously playable and is the most obvious.
Ichirin's thing is that she's big, and thus the 8 foot lady legend. She even has a big vs small thing going with Shinmyomaru.

Marisa is the one with a somewhat random urban legend, which fits Sanae more, but Marisa is relevant to the story.

Quote
Some like Byakuren becoming a mouse, Koishi becoming a cat, and Futo becoming a chicken are pretty random.

Futo being a chicken is not all that random. She has a thing with overreacting with her fears. She burns temples to the ground because she fears them.

Quote
Yes, I know high quality sprites are harder and more time consuming to make than 3D models, but it's not like its impossible to create a lot if one is given a lot of time.  There is no golden rule saying that one can only create a limited amount of new characters per game for sequels using the same engine after all.

And what makes you think time is something the creators have?
In either case, the legends themselves make as much sense for these Touhou characters as for other Touhou characters. It isn't like the other Touhou characters somehow have a stake in the urban legends.

It is also ridiculous to believe the characters wouldn't be re-used. That doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on May 15, 2015, 07:54:32 AM
TH14.5 left me convinced that once you land in Gensokyo, if you are not strong enough to survive the youkais, you are dead.  End of story.  It does not matter whether it's human from outside world with no talents, or humans from Gensokyo village who's stupid enough to roam around the night.

Akyu says in the Outsider article in PMiSS that most outsiders in Gensokyo are basically sitting ducks, and in the Hakurei Shrine article she says it generally takes luck for them to reach the Hakurei Shrine  (where they can then escape) without being eaten.

Pretty sure those from the Gensokyo village are marginally safe even when roaming around at night though (but it'd still be stupid of them to do that).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 15, 2015, 08:00:40 AM
It is also ridiculous to believe the characters wouldn't be re-used. That doesn't make any sense.
I don't think I ever said that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on May 15, 2015, 08:21:37 AM
whatever the case is, you didn't say why they only make a few characters for 2D games.
Because they've deemed some number of characters as reasonable to make for a certain project scope and deadline, and it's deemed unreasonable to go for any more. It's literally that simple.

Yes, I know high quality sprites are harder and more time consuming to make than 3D models, but it's not like its impossible to create a lot if one is given a lot of time.  There is no golden rule saying that one can only create a limited amount of new characters per game for sequels using the same engine after all.
"Yes I know characters are hard to make, but they can, so why don't they make twenty new characters? I don't get it"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on May 15, 2015, 08:50:29 AM
Rewinding back to the earlier fighting games to recall some memories: People have been complaining/whining about wanting Mokou to appear in the fighting games. She appears.  >> "Why is the character roster so small"

We're terribly sorry that Tasofro didn't create all 100+ Touhou characters for your fighting game pleasures. I will go personally scold them now for this.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 15, 2015, 09:13:02 AM
Because they've deemed some number of characters as reasonable to make for a certain project scope and deadline, and it's deemed unreasonable to go for any more. It's literally that simple.
"Yes I know characters are hard to make, but they can, so why don't they make twenty new characters? I don't get it"
And it's like I said before: time is one issue.

If they were, like, given an entire year or two to make the game, I'm sure there will be more than just 4 new characters.  Not necessarily 10, mind you.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 15, 2015, 09:14:32 AM
They probably have an expansion on mind coming in a year or something, and thus some of the works would be reserved until then.
Maybe

Also, with your logic they took 4 years to make HM (and created 9 + 1 undone character from that).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Helepolis on May 15, 2015, 09:19:06 AM
And it's like I said before: time is one issue.

If they were, like, given an entire year or two to make the game, I'm sure there will be more than just 4 new characters.  Not necessarily 10, mind you.
I don't understand your tenacity for outputting a tunnel-vision mindset regarding the character roster.

You tell me, why would they take 2 years to make the game, just to increase the character roster? What added value would that contribute to you (since obviously this is your own greedy opinion) or the game itself?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: hind on May 15, 2015, 09:59:21 AM
Ehhh... I read through the pages of the forum, so I apologize in advance if I didn't notice someone asking this but... what's up with the .exe file not responding when clicked on? I've tried everything, from the patch to making sure DirectX is up to date. At the moment I'm updating Nvidia, though I'm sure that's not the problem. A lot of people have been having this problem, has anyone found a fix for it? :o
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 15, 2015, 10:19:04 AM
Over at Touhou wiki, translation for every single story mode has been completed, all that's left is basically the versus mode scripts.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Urban_Legend_in_Limbo/Translation
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on May 15, 2015, 10:23:12 AM
Ehhh... I read through the pages of the forum, so I apologize in advance if I didn't notice someone asking this but... what's up with the .exe file not responding when clicked on? I've tried everything, from the patch to making sure DirectX is up to date. At the moment I'm updating Nvidia, though I'm sure that's not the problem. A lot of people have been having this problem, has anyone found a fix for it? :o
The problem for me was AVG. I fixed the issue by disabling it temporarily, so you could try to launch the game after disabling the antivirus (I've also tried to make an exception for ULiL, but that din't work)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tengukami on May 15, 2015, 10:50:30 AM
game2011, before you respond, check your personal messages please.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 15, 2015, 11:47:11 AM
Yeah, I read his tweet too. Hopefully it is intentional and not a bug, 'cause I'm loving it
More (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/599047777738366976) from Unabara: they discovered the Mahavairocana combo shortly before going gold (finalizing the master disc). They unanimously agreed it is a fun trick that should stay. However, they may have to balance Mahavairocana around the trick in the future.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: game2011 on May 15, 2015, 01:25:24 PM
game2011, before you respond, check your personal messages please.
It's going to continue through PMs from now on, then.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 15, 2015, 01:57:46 PM
Over at Touhou wiki, translation for every single story mode has been completed, all that's left is basically the versus mode scripts.

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Urban_Legend_in_Limbo/Translation

Hooray! And they are all so interesting) Now we need endings translation to fully understand the whole story of the game.

Edit: ah, there are still a lot of untranslated story modes. Wrote this only after reading most plot-important ones.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: N-Forza on May 15, 2015, 02:30:48 PM
Ichirin's thing is that she's big, and thus the 8 foot lady legend. She even has a big vs small thing going with Shinmyomaru.
Wouldn't that
"big" part be better attributed to Unzan though? I mean, Ichirin doesn't seem all that different in size to the others.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on May 15, 2015, 02:59:39 PM
I thought i didn't like the music, but it turns out they are pretty good while playing.

Also, i found a little bug. If you get Ko'd during Sumireko's last spell, she gets stuck and stops firing lasers at you, making it super easy to defeat her (it happened to me in Mamizou's scenario).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 15, 2015, 03:09:52 PM
Looks like they released patch 1.02, however Tasofro's website is down atm.

raw patch notes are here:
http://pastebin.com/hD9VDSfg
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on May 15, 2015, 03:14:39 PM
That said, i still do think that Yukari kind of lied a little to Kasen when she implied that the humans where only there for the Youkai.
That might actually make sense : outside of Gensokyo, there are already humans but the scientific knowledge and explanations are not quite youkai friendly, while Gensokyo keeps outside world science and common sense outside, allowing the youkai to exist thanks to the humans fearing them. If you think of it this way, the human village is essentially an Youkai incubator : Youkai NEEDS human, so there HAD to be humans in Gensokyo for Youkai to exist, so it seems correct to me that humans are only there for the Youkai.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 15, 2015, 03:22:04 PM
That might actually make sense : outside of Gensokyo, there are already humans but the scientific knowledge and explanations are not quite youkai friendly, while Gensokyo keeps outside world science and common sense outside, allowing the youkai to exist thanks to the humans fearing them. If you think of it this way, the human village is essentially an Youkai incubator : Youkai NEEDS human, so there HAD to be humans in Gensokyo for Youkai to exist, so it seems correct to me that humans are only there for the Youkai.

No need for guessing, it's directly said so in SoPm)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 15, 2015, 03:34:27 PM
raw patch notes are here:
http://pastebin.com/hD9VDSfg
Can anyone give us a rough summary of it at least?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 15, 2015, 03:43:13 PM
Can anyone give us a rough summary of it at least?
Mostly bugfixes, like for story mode crash, character bugs and inconsistent damage, etc.

Currently translating them now. In the mean time, you can watch Usamimi Kokoro doing Caramelldansen (https://twitter.com/migelfutosi/status/599205829275881472).

EDIT:
Sorry for taking so long. Here it is, http://pastebin.com/imiAAjic
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ozzter on May 15, 2015, 04:28:49 PM
Just read through the notes, didn't look like anything too major. Like monhan said, mostly bug fixes and damage tweaks. Bigger ones I saw were a few self damage changes with Mokou, and that I think it said something about the healing being only a portion now instead of full. Most of the other's were kind minor tweaks and such. Sukuna's occult attack is ungrazeable now though, that'll be something I'll forget about. If I actually knew the skill names I would post it, but also I'm not super confident with my Japanese.

I'll leave it up to someone else to give a more thourough list of the translated changes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 15, 2015, 04:29:12 PM
Hooray! And they are all so interesting) Now we need endings translation to fully understand the whole story of the game.

Edit: ah, there are still a lot of untranslated story modes. Wrote this only after reading most plot-important ones.

Yeah, I did the plot important ones first. Sorry for confusing you.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suwako Moriya on May 15, 2015, 04:38:01 PM
Wouldn't that
"big" part be better attributed to Unzan though? I mean, Ichirin doesn't seem all that different in size to the others.

Byakurenvy makes her wear that figure-hiding dress for a reason :winky:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 15, 2015, 07:52:26 PM
http://tasofro.net/touhou145/

Tasofro's page is up now. Patch your game, everybody.

Is there a translation of the changelog yet? All I could get out of Google Translate was that the timer now stops when a Last Word is in progress.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 15, 2015, 08:36:38 PM
http://tasofro.net/touhou145/

Tasofro's page is up now. Patch your game, everybody.

Is there a translation of the changelog yet? All I could get out of Google Translate was that the timer now stops when a Last Word is in progress.

The download link is still down for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 15, 2015, 08:45:40 PM
Try using the updater.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 15, 2015, 08:50:02 PM
The download link is still down for me.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/bcsk7jih7ee5ac6/th145_update_102.exe

Also, you guys might want to wait until 1.03, as Tasofro introduced a stupid bug with this patch. When you resurrect as Mokou, you gain blue health as well as WHITE health. Which means you can repeatedly resurrect and recover all of your health like that.

EDIT: 1.02b released. Use the auto-updater to get it. As expected, it fixes Mokou's Resurrection.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Lukesky180 on May 15, 2015, 11:59:08 PM
Woot, that was fast :>
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spencer on May 16, 2015, 01:08:15 AM
When I was playing ULiL I noticed that Marisa seemed to be the most OP out of the 3 in the story quests.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 16, 2015, 01:46:32 AM
/put on my fake-as-tanuki-cash old school hat

The most surprising feature of ULiL is the return of mirroring battle taunts between the protagonist and the boss before the final battle.

In EoSD we had:
Quote
Remilia: Looks like it's going to be a fun night.
Reimu: Looks like it's going to be a long night.

Remilia: Looks like it's going to be a hot night.
Marisa: Looks like it's going to be a cool night.

In PCB:
Quote
Reimu: You can go back underneath these blossoms, ghost of spring!
Yuyuko: You can sleep underneath these blossoms, red-white butterfly!

Marisa: Take back this unlively spring, dead young lady!
Yuyuko: Take away this pitiful morsel of spring, black mage!

Sakuya: The flower-viewings shall commence on the earth, corpse of the princess!
Yuyuko: I shall make you watch the seal undone, dog of the devil!

Now we have:
Quote
Sumireko: The Human World's final night will be
Reimu: Gensokyo's first night will be
Sumireko: Etched into the depths of your genes!
Reimu: Etched until you're sick of the nightmares!

I can do all kinds of reading too much into this (lol Sumireko playable in a main game). but the point is, this was interesting.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sahuaro on May 16, 2015, 02:05:31 AM
I'm still waiting for Tasofro to buff Miko. On more testing I feel she might fall on the weak side of the tiers... she seems to have several shortcomings this iteration, specially when it comes to her new cape mecanic. Seriously, the cape buff is so short-lived its both funny and sad at the same time.

I agree with the statement that Marisa might be too good for her own sake again...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ChronaSE on May 16, 2015, 04:47:37 AM
I felt bad about the amount of bullying Sumireko got during the events. Gensokyo isn't that friendly I guess. On the other hand i'm quite worried about her character in general, being an occultist and all feels like she doesn't have much friends thus why she enjoys being in Gensokyo while sleeping.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 16, 2015, 05:22:24 AM
I felt bad about the amount of bullying Sumireko got during the events. Gensokyo isn't that friendly I guess. On the other hand i'm quite worried about her character in general, being an occultist and all feels like she doesn't have much friends thus why she enjoys being in Gensokyo while sleeping.

Honestly, I like what they're doing with the new characters in both this game and HM. The final boss is defined as "the person who gets beat up by everyone else at the end of story mode", so instead of trying to pretend that they're some super-awesome person who's losing on purpose or whatever, the story just roles with it and makes them someone who who gets bullied by everyone else.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: CyberAngel on May 16, 2015, 12:58:04 PM
I felt bad about the amount of bullying Sumireko got during the events. Gensokyo isn't that friendly I guess.

She's essentially like each and every self-insert OC in existence. And Gensokyo isn't anyone's personal playground.

That said, her character initialy scared me away from this game's story, but I like how it went by the end.

On the other hand i'm quite worried about her character in general, being an occultist and all feels like she doesn't have much friends thus why she enjoys being in Gensokyo while sleeping.

Read her profile. It's true.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 18, 2015, 02:52:07 AM
some pretty hilarious stuff making the rounds on my jp feed

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26281138 high speed byakuren
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26276443 boss char vs mokou restun loop
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 18, 2015, 05:35:27 AM
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26281138 high speed byakuren
Oh my god, turbo granny overload :getdown:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 18, 2015, 06:51:50 AM
In more things that need patching news, Japanese fans have pointed out what appears to be some misplaced dialogue in the final route.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/coleblog/archives/52028681.html

The current text is:
Quote
    華扇「は?霊夢(あなた)が何でここに?
        例の奴はもうすぐ幻想郷に戻るのに」
    霊夢「悠長に待っていられない事態が発生したの
        今すぐにそいつに会わせて」
    華扇「駄目よ。貴方は今、一時的だけど正式な手順を踏んで幻想郷に来ている
        その状態で人間と闘ったら外の世界で目立たない訳が無いわ」
Here Kasen is saying Sumireko is (or ought to be) going back to Gensokyo, and Reimu is temporarily entering Gensokyo "in the proper way", which makes no sense.

A more logical flow would be:
Quote
    華扇「は?霊夢(あなた)が何でここに?
        例の奴は今、一時的だけど正式な手順を踏んで幻想郷に来ている
        その状態で人間と闘ったら外の世界で目立たない訳が無いわ」
    霊夢「悠長に待っていられない事態が発生したの
        今すぐにそいつに会わせて」
    華扇「駄目よ。貴方はもうすぐ幻想郷に戻るのに」

They had already notified Tasofro of the issue.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 18, 2015, 07:14:20 AM
In more things that need patching news, Japanese fans have pointed out what appears to be some misplaced dialogue in the final route.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/coleblog/archives/52028681.html

The current text is:Here Kasen is saying Sumireko has gone back to Gensokyo, and Reimu is temporarily entering Gensokyo "in the proper way", which makes no sense.

A more logical flow would be:
They had already notified Tasofro of the issue.

Hmm, while the second part certainly doesn't make much sense the way it is now, I sort of figured that the first part was supposed to be referring to Sumireko bouncing back. After all, she used the balls to escape Gensokyo, and for everyone else that's just temporary. She specifically says this in her route. She's still technically "stuck" in Gensokyo, and Kasen needs Reimu to be waiting there to capture her when she bounces back. I'm not sure why Reimu bouncing back would matter at all in this situation: even if Reimu runs out of time to complete her goal, that's not really Kasen's problem, and I'm not sure Reimu would bounce back at all since she didn't use the orbs.

Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding everything.

Edit: I thought もうすぐ means Sumireko is right about to go back to Gensokyo, not that she already has. Also it's not past tense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on May 18, 2015, 09:19:35 AM
Quote
The most surprising feature of ULiL is the return of mirroring battle taunts between the protagonist and the boss before the final battle.

NOSTALGIAAAA!!!  :getdown:

Now for something, completely different.

Has anybody been able to figure out if the coding structure for this game is similar to that of HM's? Just so that we know how difficult it may be to put up a translation patch. If it's the same as HM, the groundwork is already set!  :D

P.S Koishi's final smash will be a challenge to translate, since it's actually part of the final smash animation. Would that be possible to hack into?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 18, 2015, 02:31:01 PM
Ahem, I only just realized that Sumireko is wearing a Quimbaya airplane (just google it, or "Quimbaya artifact") pendant. Those pre-Columbian artifacts were a famous "evidence" for ancient astronauts, even though they were simply stylized fish. (For example, see Ancient Aliens Debunked (http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/references-and-transcripts/tolima-fighter-jets/))

It's ironic that according to her vs. mode dialogue, Sumireko does not believe we have any chance of meeting intelligent aliens, meaning the pendant is only part of her spooky occultist getup, not something she believes.

It's doubly ironic that non-alien ancient astronauts do exist in the Touhou universe, in the form of the Lunarians, who might be manipulating Sumireko, and whose powers Sumireko have tapped into with her last word.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Starxsword on May 19, 2015, 06:14:20 AM
I would argue that Lunarians aren't aliens. The only alien are the moon rabbits which I assume lived on the moon all this time. Lunarians are just humans who travelled to the moon way back in the past and is now living there.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 19, 2015, 10:48:32 AM
Twilight Frontier finally released (https://twitter.com/tasofro/status/600608339609788417) a downloadable version of the 1.02b patch.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Minato-chan on May 19, 2015, 01:02:02 PM
Playism Release a poll for new Touhou derivatives including games like Touhouvania,Adventures of Scarlet Curiosity,Urban Legend in Limbo,New Super Marisa Land,Touhou Sky Arena and The Nightmare of Rebellion

I comment in the poll for GGPO in ULiL

http://playism-games.com/article/touhou-derivatives-what-would-you-like-to-see (http://playism-games.com/article/touhou-derivatives-what-would-you-like-to-see)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 19, 2015, 01:41:56 PM
Can you please translate updater.exe? Thanks!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sagus on May 19, 2015, 03:39:34 PM
I'm having a weird problem where the game refuses to start at all; does anyone know any fix for this?

Never mind, got it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 20, 2015, 12:48:23 AM
Here's a generic patcher for the non-starting problem caused by Tasofro's DLL anti-hacking, and makes the game run on Windows XP. It should be applicable on future versions of the game.
Made by: 八重雾中渡
http://1drv.ms/1LjpXkq

Run it in the same directory as th145.exe, and a new th145_fix.exe will be generated.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 20, 2015, 03:40:13 AM
@cuc Do we have to re-patch it after every update or not?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 20, 2015, 07:17:12 AM
@cuc Do we have to re-patch it after every update or not?
Yes, after each update you should delete the patched .exe and run the patcher again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 22, 2015, 01:08:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJwlRQDqBW8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJwlRQDqBW8)
Holy shit Tasofro. Guess the border between the guard being too hard and too easy to break is thin enough that a 700 meter card that breaks 3 hexes is a bad idea.

On a side note, is there a translation of endings available somewhere on the net in any shape or form?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 22, 2015, 02:08:29 PM
There's some interesting stuff on that old diary in general, not including them spending way too much money on MtG cards. Some of the 2007/2008 entries are about the design of SWR and their approach to the decisions they made. More or less confirmed that they had felt players would sit around doing nothing too often, so weather was added as a way of forcing the situation. Apparently it originally had no aspect of luck or randomness associated with it.
I was looking for the source where they said Yukari's train spell card was originally supposed to drop an airplane or a satellite.

The source turns out to be a report (http://cookienuts.exblog.jp/13813868/) on 2010's post-Summer Comiket Nae Radio. This is the same source where ZUN said "Lily Black" was simply Lily White cosplaying as the judge.

Also from the report: ZUN came up with SWR's weathers. NKZ: "When he first told us about it, our heads were full of question marks."

That's it. Every time you see a Touhou fighting game become a playground for some lore-dependent ideas that are wacky for wacky's sake - weathers, Suwako, occult balls - the blame probably lies with ZUN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 22, 2015, 02:21:53 PM
But was it his idea to add this stuff to VS mode?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on May 22, 2015, 03:45:34 PM
Quote
and makes the game run on Windows XP.

For someone who is as old school as I am that who haven't even bothered to upgrade to a newer OS yet... YES!!!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Failure McFailFace on May 22, 2015, 04:16:11 PM
For someone who is as old school as I am that who haven't even bothered to upgrade to a newer OS yet... YES!!!

XP isn't supported anymore by Microsoft. You really need to update.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tiamat on May 22, 2015, 07:35:15 PM
That's it. Every time you see a Touhou fighting game become a playground for some lore-dependent ideas that are wacky for wacky's sake - weathers, Suwako, occult balls - the blame probably lies with ZUN.

IIRC, Suwako's flying animation in Hisoutensoku wasn't ZUN's idea, though (but of course he rolled with it after being shown it).  My memory could be off.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on May 23, 2015, 05:03:33 PM
Tasfro... ZUN's indirect counsel advisers.

Seriously though, I like the ideas that Tasfro put in their games. When I was waiting for the last few days before ULiL was released, I was a little worried about what they would do to Byakuren with her "turbo baba" urban legend. It could have quite easily become lame if it wasn't handled well (imagine a feeble looking Byakuren plotting along on a scooter).

Nope! Tasfro made her a leather-clad motor head on a bad ass motorcycle. Well played Tasfro!

Byakuren really is the character that is full of suprises. 8)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 24, 2015, 03:34:32 AM
So is Byakuren a motorbike granny or OJ Simpson?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on May 24, 2015, 03:08:05 PM
Quote
OJ Simpson

Lol wut?  :]
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on May 24, 2015, 07:59:24 PM
After a hell of a lot of play time, local tournaments and translation reading I honestly think this is the best touhou fighter in the series. It's easy to pick up and play, the revamped fighting style feels a lot more fun and less complicated than the others as well. It might just be me but I think through the dialogue, story and character art the game also has a lot more charm to it than the other fighters, it feels more like a classic touhou experience since all the characters feel much more, well, characterized I think? Oh, that and that the soundtrack is absolute bliss in my opinion! So yeah, hands down favorite spin-off and touhou fighter for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: commandercool on May 24, 2015, 10:04:28 PM
Played a bunch more games over the last couple weeks.

People seem to be tending to gravitate toward Marisa because she's so strong and easy to use. Byakuren and Koishi are relatively untouched because they seem to have a significantly higher learning curve than everyone else.

I still haven't quite figured out how to safely move around with Mokou, but her damage is nuts. Mamizou and Kasen may be my favorites right now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 25, 2015, 12:02:47 AM
Koishi

j.5a j.5a j.5a j.5a j.5a j.5a

Just keep doing that because of it's ridiculously wide hitbox.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 25, 2015, 06:59:52 AM
Lol wut?  :]
If my memory serves me correctly, earlier on this thread it has been mentioned that Byakuren's motorcycle Last Word references OJ Simpson on a high-speed chase with the police. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 25, 2015, 08:04:01 AM
who could forget the oj simpson bike chase urban legend
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: the old guy on May 25, 2015, 08:08:05 AM
If my memory serves me correctly, earlier on this thread it has been mentioned that Byakuren's motorcycle Last Word references OJ Simpson on a high-speed chase with the police. I could be wrong though.
Um... you could just go back a few pages.
But i will explain anyways, as someone who was involved in that conversion. Basically Tengukami posted a Photoshop of Byakuren in OJ Simpson's place, and then i asked what the Last Word was referencing, and she thought that i was asking what the Photoshop was parodying, so she said OJ Simpson.

BTW, the Last Word's referencing a Japanese urban myth known as "Turbo Granny".

Edit: Also, this is kind of unrelated to what we are talking about, but i am glad that O.J.'s in jail now, i hope he doesn't get parole.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Abraham Lincoln on May 25, 2015, 02:24:29 PM
For some reason I thought Sumireko was a tanuki like Mamizou when I first saw her design.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 26, 2015, 10:14:46 AM
Patch 1.03 has been released, containing some general gameplay tweaks.

This time, Tasofro has also added an env_check.exe tool that checks whether your system has any DLL that prevents the game from running. This is going to help the tech-unsavvy players... how? Let them delete files whose purposes they don't understand?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 26, 2015, 10:28:05 AM
>env_check.exe
Well, I am most certainly not touching that with a 10-foot pole. Messing with system DLLs is always a bad idea.

By the way, does the patcher you posted still work on 1.03, cuc?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: AbdulGalaxia on May 26, 2015, 12:19:41 PM
I was playing this game for a while now and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nru4UWIlkw4 this happened, It's really nothing special, but i wonder if tasfro gonna fix it or not. i hope they don't its kind of funny in a sense.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 26, 2015, 01:11:54 PM
The only non-gameplay change in v1.03 is they added a camera flash to Sumireko's selfie victory animation. The story script errors (there is at least one more error) should not be fixed.
>env_check.exe
Well, I am most certainly not touching that with a 10-foot pole. Messing with system DLLs is always a bad idea.
Relax, the program doesn't do anything other than give you the paths of the files th145.exe won't like.

Indeed, the patcher still works. However, here is Patcher 1.1, which has removed one further check from the program, and should prevent some other cases of the game crashing.
http://1drv.ms/1Kx7rrl
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 26, 2015, 01:28:18 PM
Yeah, I still prefer messing with the game to make it work with the computer over messing with the computer to make it work with the game. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 26, 2015, 01:58:40 PM
So here's a thing I found with Koishi right before 1.03 happened. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB8b5gHHJ80)

Basically, in 1.02b at least, there was an odd quirk that the opponent can't dash or jump out of meaty projectiles if they are recovering from a regular wallslam (or at least, it was a quirk for Nitori's 5aa6a 2c). When I made this video I didn't know about this until now, however I was told this so this might actually be a thing.

Fortunately this doesn't work anymore as the patch nerfed guard crushes. Opponents that were recently crushed will get a temporary extra hex, and spell cards will only do half as much hex damage if it isn't at full/double power. Also the wallslam recovery glitch was fixed :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: winter_hotaru on May 26, 2015, 02:17:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mahFjmdEB_Y&feature=youtu.be

I've been liking this spellcard since HM

and they made it even stronger in ULiL
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on May 26, 2015, 05:13:02 PM
env_check are you kidding me

why the fuck are they doubling down on this?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on May 26, 2015, 05:17:32 PM
They're japanese developers
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 26, 2015, 05:33:41 PM
Oh, so 1.03 has been released.

So... what were the changes? Was it only bugfixes again? I tried to check the changelog with Google Translate and I'm getting worse results than I thought I would.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on May 26, 2015, 10:36:52 PM
Sumireko's basic melee hitboxes are DEFINITELY bigger. Her hip smack has actual normal, usable range now! It's a miracle.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Monothemeerp on May 27, 2015, 04:52:04 AM
env_check are you kidding me

why the fuck are they doubling down on this?
I literally got a virus warning for env_check when I ran the updater. That... thing really is no good.

Sumireko's basic melee hitboxes are DEFINITELY bigger. Her hip smack has actual normal, usable range now! It's a miracle.

YES! Absolute yes. I can finally hit melees now without standing right in front of my sandsack of choice.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 27, 2015, 05:13:10 AM
I literally got a virus warning for env_check when I ran the updater. That... thing really is no good.
At least you didn't get a virus warning for the updater itself.

That aside, I finally got the game in the mail today (thanks N-Forza!), and it's actually pretty fun. The playstyle was a bit difficult to grasp at first, but now it doesn't seem as daunting as when I played the demo version. As someone who has only seen videos and reviews of the previous fighters I'm in no position to make serious comparisons, but I can safely say that ULiL is an excellent game. The artwork and musical score are done very well, and the product as a whole gives a sense of professionalism. The only wish I have regarding the game is that Tasofro releases an expansion pack to this as their next product a la Hisoutensoku.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 27, 2015, 12:51:25 PM
So here's a thing I found with Koishi right before 1.03 happened. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB8b5gHHJ80)

Basically, in 1.02b at least, there was an odd quirk that the opponent can't dash or jump out of meaty projectiles if they are recovering from a regular wallslam (or at least, it was a quirk for Nitori's 5aa6a 2c). When I made this video I didn't know about this until now, however I was told this so this might actually be a thing.

Fortunately this doesn't work anymore as the patch nerfed guard crushes. Opponents that were recently crushed will get a temporary extra hex, and spell cards will only do half as much hex damage if it isn't at full/double power. Also the wallslam recovery glitch was fixed :V
So before I updated the game I confirmed that this was indeed an infinite and the wallslam recovery was a thing in 1.02b. Thankfully it's been removed so don't worry guys :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 27, 2015, 04:07:44 PM
Can someone please translate endings? Stories feel so incomplete without them(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 27, 2015, 05:42:48 PM
Can someone please translate endings? Stories feel so incomplete without them.
This, so much. Sumireko seems like an extremely interesting character and I really would like to know her personality inside-out already. I'm starting to worry that people refuse to translate the endings because the ones with Mokou and Sumireko could attract "yurifaggots", as /jp/ defines them  :ohdear:.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: UTW on May 27, 2015, 06:48:24 PM
This, so much. Sumireko seems like an extremely interesting character and I really would like to know her personality inside-out already. I'm starting to worry that people refuse to translate the endings because the ones with Mokou and Sumireko could attract "yurifaggots", as /jp/ defines them  :ohdear:.

That's not the reason, the community is simply averse to posting endings translated or not because of ZUN's old request not to do so. There used to be an endings wiki at wikkii.com I believe but it's dead now. Besides that, ULiL translation seems to be stalled (based on the wiki).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 27, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
I thought that it was deliberate, considering the rest of the story being long since translated. And outright refusing to post endings instead of properly spoilertagging them to avoid people accidentally spoiling themselves (as was likely ZUN's intention) hurts the part of fandom that's interested in canon badly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 27, 2015, 07:51:16 PM
That's not the reason, the community is simply averse to posting endings translated or not because of ZUN's old request not to do so. There used to be an endings wiki at wikkii.com I believe but it's dead now. Besides that, ULiL translation seems to be stalled (based on the wiki).

What about the versus scripts? Only Reimu, Marisa and Kasen have their scripts translated
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gilde on May 27, 2015, 08:44:17 PM
The actual text itself is probably a no-no, but I can post some summaries of the endings in a bit if people want to know what happens?

What about the versus scripts? Only Reimu, Marisa and Kasen have their scripts translated
I recently found all the versus text posted on Radical Discovery (http://radical-d.extrem.ne.jp/toho/serihu/sinpi00.htm (http://radical-d.extrem.ne.jp/toho/serihu/sinpi00.htm)), so I'll get to adding that to the wiki soonish. Some of it's more interesting than I expected!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 27, 2015, 10:05:24 PM
The actual text itself is probably a no-no, but I can post some summaries of the endings in a bit if people want to know what happens?
That's certainly better than nothing, even if a summary doesn't hold value in a canon dispute as opposed to the actual text (as it's colored by interpretation and in the worst cases can become or cause headcanon).

That doesn't make the idea of not translating the endings any less flawed though - summarizing the endings is not any less of a spoiler than the text itself and even if you really  want to hold to the idea that a spoiler warning is not enough for an intelligent reader to avoid being spoiled and that taking care of their enjoyment from getting to the endings for them takes priority over providing canon material for disputes, the point is still moot as even finishing all the story modes as intended won't let a foreigner enjoy the endings. A stellar example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater caused by what I perceive as misunderstanding of ZUN's intentions, as he certainly didn't take foreigners into account when he made that statement - and current games are made for them, among other fans. To add insult to injury, the english patch will be released long after LoLK's full version, which will additionally impair the western fans' understanding of the story of LoLK  as well, as the storylines of both games are connected.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 27, 2015, 10:48:21 PM
the english patch will be released long after LoLK's full version, which will additionally impair the western fans' understanding of the story of LoLK  as well, as the storylines of both games are connected.
Is it possible to translate the text in-memory without modifying game data? Something similar to thcrap? I've been using a debugging tool to capture text from the game and send them to online translation services, and something tells me there's a way to intercept and modify text generated by the game during run-time.

One of the reasons the patch will be delayed is probably because the game is still being updated, and updates usually break patches. However, it's unlikely that updates change the text (menus, story, etc...). What I have in mind is a simple search-and-replace table containing original Japanese text and their English equivalents. I haven't tried implementing any of this, but from what it seems it shouldn't be that hard to do. There's no decryption or disassembly needed, which should stay on the legal side in terms of unauthorized modifications and such.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gilde on May 27, 2015, 11:48:41 PM
Ending summariiiiies! Getcher' ending summaries here.

Posting them directly in the thread would take up way too much space, so, Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/5HGbu2PK

(Also please don't hesitate to correct me if I got any details wrong)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 28, 2015, 08:02:58 AM
Thanks a lot! They are even more interesting then I thought)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on May 28, 2015, 10:39:56 AM
This is hella interesting, thank you!

Also, Ichirin's script:

Ichirin:
"Turbo Granny"...?
"Granny"? Pfft, heh heh.


Hag jokes are official now :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on May 29, 2015, 02:12:38 AM
Well, thank you very much. I was kind of interested in how Sumireko would
beg for being untied and released back to the Outside World
, and her words to Mokou, but I suppose this will have to do.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Valar on May 29, 2015, 03:37:58 PM
Interrresting. I think that vs scripts imply that Sunireko, when she visits Gensokyo while asleep, is almost comletly there, able to fight and be harmed.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on May 29, 2015, 06:28:00 PM
Well, thank you very much. I was kind of interested in how Sumireko would
beg for being untied and released back to the Outside World
, and her words to Mokou, but I suppose this will have to do.

Sumireko hardly has any dialog in that scene.
She just cries while everyone else talks about what to do with her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 29, 2015, 11:51:34 PM
I have found a new glitch in this version. It's a minor one but it's there:

When the characters finish the fight introductions the player can move around a bit.

Tested with Kokoro, Sumeriko, Miko.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on May 30, 2015, 12:22:41 AM
When the characters finish the fight introductions the player can move around a bit.
In the earlier TH fighters this was a feature, so there's a good chance it's on purpose.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on May 30, 2015, 12:28:33 AM
I have found a new glitch in this version. It's a minor one but it's there:

When the characters finish the fight introductions the player can move around a bit.

Tested with Kokoro, Sumeriko, Miko.
Tasofro released 1.03b and took that away. It was indeed a minor glitch but a cool one at that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 30, 2015, 01:39:51 AM
Some numbers, courtesy of Nanashi and his Tenco online record-keeping system.

The recent statistics of ULiL:
(http://i.imgur.com/rE27HOX.jpg)
No. of Accounts: 535
Total no. of player-character pairs: 929
No. of game outcomes: 25420
No. of reported games (for reference only): 74479

Table headers: Character / No. of players / No. of games / Victory rate


Here's the ratio of daily average games played on weekends to daily average games played on workdays over the years, showing the Touhou fighting games' playerbase - or at very least, the userbase of Tenco - maturing.
(http://i.imgur.com/voGa7DR.png)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 30, 2015, 08:13:42 AM
Okay, 1.03b changed something in env_check and now Avira's flagging it as a virus. Jeez Tasofro, I like you, I really do, but what the shit? lol
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 30, 2015, 01:12:59 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/voGa7DR.png)

How do we read this one :o ?

Year and... 1.27 ? 27 games on weekend?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on May 30, 2015, 02:05:53 PM
How do we read this one :o ?

Year and... 1.27 ? 27 games on weekend?
Probably for every game played on a working day, there were 27 on the weekend.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 30, 2015, 02:36:45 PM
Probably for every game played on a working day, there were 27 on the weekend.
For every game played on a week day, there were 1.27 games played on Saturday or Sunday. Unless I also read it wrong lol.

The general trend of the ratio is to increase over the years, especially since 2011. This indicates a larger portion of the players have become working adults who are more likely to play during weekends. It also likely means the influx of young, school or college age players has slowed down.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 30, 2015, 02:41:56 PM
By the way, can I just delete env_check? Not exactly keen on Avira nagging me every time I turn my laptop on.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on May 30, 2015, 06:55:57 PM
By the way, can I just delete env_check? Not exactly keen on Avira nagging me every time I turn my laptop on.
It should be okay. All env_check does is tell you the files the game doesn't like. You'll still need to patch th145.exe if it complains or flat-out doesn't run, and I haven't heard of any problems playing the game without env_check.

Some numbers, courtesy of Nanashi and his Tenco online record-keeping system.

The recent statistics of ULiL:
(http://i.imgur.com/rE27HOX.jpg)
No. of Accounts: 535
Total no. of player-character pairs: 929
No. of game outcomes: 25420
No. of reported games (for reference only): 74479

Table headers: Character / No. of players / No. of games / Victory rate
Marisa confirmed top-tier :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on May 30, 2015, 07:00:23 PM
Has anybody noticed that in VS battles, Mokou even in Lunatic is no trouble to beat? I hope they update the A.I. so that she uses ressurection more often, since right now...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Koog on June 03, 2015, 12:33:56 AM
Has anybody noticed that in VS battles, Mokou even in Lunatic is no trouble to beat? I hope they update the A.I. so that she uses ressurection more often, since right now...
I thought the AI suddenly got worse. Because I beat her with Koishi pretty easily...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Phasm on June 03, 2015, 01:32:54 PM
I thought the AI suddenly got worse. Because I beat her with Koishi pretty easily...

Mokou seems to use the attacks that drain her health, pretty often, and usually you can beat Mokou, without seeing a single ressurection.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on June 04, 2015, 07:11:41 AM
Is it just me, or is Tasofro's site down again?
I can't get 1.03b even with the updater
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on June 04, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
Is it just me, or is Tasofro's site down again?
I can't get 1.03b even with the updater
Nope, not just you. Can't open the site either.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on June 04, 2015, 01:11:31 PM
Is it just me, or is Tasofro's site down again?
I can't get 1.03b even with the updater
Nope, not just you. Can't open the site either.
Probably just you two because I can access the website just fine.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on June 04, 2015, 01:26:32 PM
Huh. I think I might have an idea what may be wrong...
What area do you live in, Gamer251?

EDIT: Managed to open it after connecting through a proxy. Yup, it's that problem again.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on June 04, 2015, 05:28:40 PM
Can't be accessed from Indonesia.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gamer251 on June 05, 2015, 01:24:59 PM
The site is blocked again for most Asian countries, isn't it?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on June 05, 2015, 01:28:54 PM
Yep, you'll have to connect through a proxy or VPN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sahuaro on June 05, 2015, 06:39:10 PM
So, Miko still shit tier?

*checks tenco*

Yup
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on June 06, 2015, 12:51:15 AM
wow I just realized the part before the guitar solo in the remix of Mamizou's theme is actually 1:27 from Futatsuiwa from Gensokyo

reminder that all the people who don't like her theme in this game have terrible taste

E: oh probably cuz it's a remix of that and not her original theme... now I feel dumb but anyway Mamizou has the best themes, haters ain't shit, etc
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on June 07, 2015, 07:46:05 PM
passing along since one of the jp iamp crew's been linking it around

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26405232 recent netplay tournament finals
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26436691 semifinals
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on June 08, 2015, 02:54:43 AM
passing along since one of the jp iamp crew's been linking it around
as much marisa as I expected after seeing the character roster

It's neat to see what people who actually know what they're doing use for combos and blockstrings, though. Sukuna's needle loop is funny, and I totally didn't expect some of Marisa's stuff to chain together like that. The video pretty much only had Marisa/Sukuna/Mokou/Ichirin, though ;_; And one Miko. Since it was semifinals, I shouldn't expect to see a big variety, I suppose. If I want to see jp play I should actually look for jp play instead of hoping it'll drop into my lap like this >:V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on June 08, 2015, 02:57:35 AM
Are Shinmyoumaru's specials actually that bad? Because that tournament player seems to use literally none of them other than the bait and just mashes melee to combo and melee + needles to pressure. :derp:
Well, other than that and Miko looking dangerously close to a punching bag, this is awesome. Is there any more noteworthy 1.03b jp tournament footage?

Oh, and just accidentally, if anyone has that video with all timeout loss poses, please share. I'm sure I saw it somewhere, but cannot find it again for the life of me.  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on June 08, 2015, 04:07:01 AM
Are Shinmyoumaru's specials actually that bad? Because that tournament player seems to use literally none of them other than the bait and just mashes melee to combo and melee + needles to pressure. :derp:
Well, other than that and Miko looking dangerously close to a punching bag, this is awesome. Is there any more noteworthy 1.03b jp tournament footage?

Oh, and just accidentally, if anyone has that video with all timeout loss poses, please share. I'm sure I saw it somewhere, but cannot find it again for the life of me.  :derp:

The second ULiL tournament:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26418583
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26418679

Facebook : http://on.fb.me/1RWRL1E
Original Nico video : http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26281780
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on June 08, 2015, 04:53:12 AM
If I want to see jp play I should actually look for jp play instead of hoping it'll drop into my lap like this >:V
rest of the tournament's here (http://www.nicovideo.jp/search/%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%E6%B7%B1%E7%A7%98%E9%8C%B2%20%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%E9%9D%9E%E8%90%83%E5%8A%87)

if you just want general tournament footage, this link should do (http://www.nicovideo.jp/search/%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%E6%B7%B1%E7%A7%98%E9%8C%B2+%E5%A4%A7%E4%BC%9A?sort=f&order=d) but there isn't much up yet.

game's more interesting than soku was to me, at least
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: CyberAngel on June 12, 2015, 04:14:30 PM
Hmm, let's see... Completely unnecessary cape? Check. Lives in outside world? Check. Came to Gensokyo for unreasonably selfish reasons? Check. Kept coming after being defeated? Check.

Sumireko is Yumemi.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on June 12, 2015, 07:06:21 PM
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHQ881TWIAIKMyq.png:large)

See: Damage.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Reu on June 12, 2015, 11:19:55 PM
Hmm, let's see... Completely unnecessary cape? Check. Lives in outside world? Check. Came to Gensokyo for unreasonably selfish reasons? Check. Kept coming after being defeated? Check.

Sumireko is Yumemi.
Wait, how is Yumemi coming to Gensokyo to prove magic exists and to integrate it into the outside world selfish?
Technically speaking she put her own life at risk with the unknown to introduce a new/forgotten force.
That's borderline selfless.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on June 13, 2015, 02:03:41 AM
Well, she kind of came to take revenge on the colleagues that made fun of her, and she made up the whole "granting a wish" plot to gather a bunch of magical people and kidnap something magical (Reimu) to take back to the outside, which is pretty selfish, and also similar to Sumireko using the Occult Balls to bring magical people outside to her.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Reu on June 13, 2015, 04:01:10 AM
Well, she kind of came to take revenge on the colleagues that made fun of her, and she made up the whole "granting a wish" plot to gather a bunch of magical people and kidnap something magical (Reimu) to take back to the outside, which is pretty selfish, and also similar to Sumireko using the Occult Balls to bring magical people outside to her.

She never made up the granting a wish thing though, She kept her promise.
Chiyuri was the one who spread misinformation, promising presents which really wasn't apart of the plan at all.
The whole point was to prove people wrong yes, but in her defense she did this so she'd have irrefutable evidence, hence her wanting to bring them back with her.
They not only denied her theory they practically made a joke out of her.
I'm pretty sure once she studied enough and proved her point she would've sent them back.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Drake on June 13, 2015, 06:23:26 AM
None of that makes her actions not selfish, though? Do you understand that she was trying to kidnap people, intended to drag them back while unconscious if they lost and gave people a wager to come back outside that she wouldn't let them reject anyways? How is saying that the wish-granting scheme wasn't her idea any sort of defense? If that wasn't even part of the plan, clearly the only thing she really did have planned was to take people by force from the beginning.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Reu on June 13, 2015, 07:03:12 AM
None of that makes her actions not selfish, though? Do you understand that she was trying to kidnap people, intended to drag them back while unconscious if they lost and gave people a wager to come back outside that she wouldn't let them reject anyways? How is saying that the wish-granting scheme wasn't her idea any sort of defense? If that wasn't even part of the plan, clearly the only thing she really did have planned was to take people by force from the beginning.
It's no different from taking a new species in for examination when it comes down to it, remember that this is all for science and knowledge.

But yes, by it not being her idea it's not exactly her fault these things occurred, it's actually Chiyuri's fault.
She just ran with it once she realized a prime specimen is right in her face, on her ship and ready to go.

Though maybe we're just looking at things differently.

And I could be wrong but her main intention anyways was supposed to be inviting people to experiment,
if this is really the case then it's really just their fault if they go to the ship if things go as planned.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on June 14, 2015, 09:13:55 PM
So I made a second Koishi combo video, this one being smaller but it does feature a kill combo! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9MaHdXUlDM)

Also, when will the thread move to HME? Seeing that the game is released and it's mostly used for discussion now I figured it should be moved there now :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: csslayer on June 15, 2015, 06:11:29 AM
Doing some investigation as to why it's not running into wine, pretty sure I know why it's not working on some nvidia setups now. There's a startup anti-hacking check to make sure that all the dlls are contained within the windows system directory and not elsewhere, so If you have a hex editor, here's a thing to try on th145.exe:

At address 00257e16, you will see
Code: [Select]
0f 83 d8 00 00 00change this to
Code: [Select]
e9 d9 00 00 00 90
If this fixes that, I'm gonna die of laughter.

Unfortunately I didn't see anything similar....  the only match I found is at 257bxx, it just crashes after I tried to do the same thing.. Is there a specific version of th145 to make it work?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Suspicious person on June 15, 2015, 03:13:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qD5j3CctTA

Buta otome already made a vocal arrange of Sumireko's theme

Just sharing  :3
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on June 15, 2015, 03:32:34 PM
Unfortunately I didn't see anything similar....  the only match I found is at 257bxx, it just crashes after I tried to do the same thing.. Is there a specific version of th145 to make it work?
Try using this: http://1drv.ms/1Kx7rrl
Run it in the same directory as th145.exe, and a new th145_fix.exe will be generated.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on June 15, 2015, 05:53:18 PM
Does anyone actually use the occult skills pretty regularly? They all seem really cool but only a few seem practical for actual battles.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on June 15, 2015, 06:28:32 PM
Miko's occult is crucial to her game and Kasen's a great combo finished. Byakuren's is useful in pressure. Nitori's can shift the momentum in her favor easily and Kokoro's seems solid. Sumireko's non-Mystery Spot occult attack (the homing balls) also looks great, but it's highly risky because of the 2 ball loss on hit.

Futo's occasionally useful for finishing combos and spacing, I think. and I heard Koishi's supposedly very good. The rest feel borderline useless though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on June 15, 2015, 07:26:43 PM
I like Sukuna's, but then again, I didn't see it getting much use in the tournament videos I watched IIRC. Mokou's is also good because it's More Damage To Stuff You Already Do, but it's not exactly a move.

Sumireko's feels useless to me. You're stuck in place forever and the attack takes so long to shoot out that the opponent should easily be able to graze through it, with no pressure potential. It only happens when I misinput, which is actually a botheringly often occurance when I try to quickly cancel a heavy into 8B. The occult laser can be nice when the stars align, although it's nothing too special. At least you can't lose occult balls if you get hit when using it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on June 17, 2015, 08:00:20 PM
Sukuna's is a great one for momentum, with her tiny hit box you can pretty much dash around as much as you want and get hits,  good way to pressure the opponent. Aside from that, Miko's, Mokou's and Kokoro's have been the most useful for me.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on June 18, 2015, 06:01:18 AM
The only ones whose occults I haven't been using are Mamizou's, Ichirin's, Reimu's, Marisa's, Sukuna's, and Usami's.

The rest were very useful.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: rg on July 11, 2015, 11:29:43 PM
Miko's occult is crucial to her game and Kasen's a great combo finished. Byakuren's is useful in pressure. Nitori's can shift the momentum in her favor easily and Kokoro's seems solid. Sumireko's non-Mystery Spot occult attack (the homing balls) also looks great, but it's highly risky because of the 2 ball loss on hit.

Futo's occasionally useful for finishing combos and spacing, I think. and I heard Koishi's supposedly very good. The rest feel borderline useless though.

Marisa's cycles through different attacks, but most of them have uses. Piano is good for combos, Portrait is good for locking down opponent's movements and can lock them in blockstun, and the other two are decent projectiles that can catch opponents off guard.

Sumireko's Mystery Spot occult attack is good for keeping opponents away from the occult ball, and stops it from moving for a second.

Ichirin's is decent for trapping an opponent.

Mokou's just straight up increases her damage, which is always a plus.

Shinmyoumaru's and Mamizou's are good for pressure.

The only occult attack that I would consider to be completely useless is Byakuren's. Way too much risk involved in using it, you're better off just holding on to your orbs until you can get a Last Word off.

 
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Komeiji11 on July 15, 2015, 09:08:16 AM
How's progress on the English patch? I have a friend who I might have gotten interested in the world of Touhou through this game but that language is indeed a barrier and although I get the general gist of things its hard to explain things when we get together..

And could someone explain how online works? I'm not too techy so trying to get involved in that is a bit puzzling and overwhelming for me, especially in a language I'm still learning....
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on July 15, 2015, 10:41:43 AM
Don't expect any english patch until we know for certain that there will be no more big updates in the future usually. Otherwise these patches can screw up the english patches themselves.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on July 15, 2015, 07:15:20 PM
Unabara tweeted about a new blog post, which mentions an upcoming new version (v1.10).

Link (http://tasofro.net/diary/view/112)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on July 17, 2015, 05:27:14 AM
They're buffing Occult Attacks overall, tweaking power spot effects, and doing character balance. Nothing's set in stone yet, so he can't give a release date.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Berzul on July 26, 2015, 02:12:22 PM
Well isn't this a soundtrack http://d-stage.com/shop/detail.php?seq=69019 ? One Kanji is different...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on July 26, 2015, 02:28:58 PM
That cover is amazing. More reason to get that soundtrack.

Tracklist found here:
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou145/cd.html

Obviously, U2 is arranging both ZUN-made themes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on July 27, 2015, 05:07:05 PM
Oooooh! Another music CD to add to the Touhou lineup. It's been awhile since anything grazed by ZUN has reached CD form. I hope ZUN releases something after Neo-traditionalism of Japan but this will do.

We have a wiki entry for the CD. Looks Promising!

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Urban_Legend_in_Limbo_OST

Lets take a look at that cover art... Oh Sumireko is looking pretty awesome in that clubroom, hey wait whats that on the OH MY GOD IS THAT A GUN ON THE SCHOOL CHAIR TO HER LEFT? IS THAT IN THE GAME? WHY WOULD SHE HAVE THAT!?!?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on July 27, 2015, 05:26:47 PM
hey wait whats that on the OH MY GOD IS THAT A GUN ON THE SCHOOL CHAIR TO HER LEFT? IS THAT IN THE GAME? WHY WOULD SHE HAVE THAT!?!?

Yes it is, it's one of her spell cards she can use.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on July 27, 2015, 05:57:36 PM
Quote
Yes it is, it's one of her spell cards she can use.

...Huh... I never saw it in any of the playthroughs that I watched on Youtube of her.

(waiting patiently for english patch)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on July 28, 2015, 12:23:25 AM
Gun Sign "3D Printer Gun"
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on July 28, 2015, 07:04:03 AM
1.10 came out.

have they gotten rid of the crap that prevents the game from running on normal people's computers yet
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on July 28, 2015, 07:10:35 AM
Well, at the very least they seem to have stopped including env_check.

EDIT: Tried running it through AppLocale, and the answer to that is a resounding nope. Not even after patching it using the tool cuc shared.

EDIT2: So what is this new purple occult aura thingy?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Algo on July 28, 2015, 02:59:52 PM
Can anyone say what new in 1.10 patch, please?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: rjagda on July 28, 2015, 06:50:14 PM
I'm sure there are folks parsing through the patch notes and spreading the info when they can. In the meantime, you can run the patch notes through google translate to get some rough idea if you can't wait.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Python on July 28, 2015, 07:17:01 PM
Oh goodness, there's a thread for discussing this game? Good, because I have some questions that I'd like to be cleared up. Starting with Occult Attacks. They're fancy and all, but it occurred to me that some just...don't do anything at all. Or so it seems.

For instance, Mamizou's. She throws a Pok?ball that looks like it's going to do something, but...it doesn't. It seems to deal damage when it hits an opponent while thrown but...nothing else happens. What's the deal with this?

Same goes for Kokoro's. She puts on a mask and...that's it. She doesn't do anything else, but I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong again.

Next one is Miko's. In practice play, I was able to determine the direction (color) I want to throw my enemy to, however I can't do this in Story Mode. Why? And also, is there a difference between choosing the red cape and the blue cape?

Then Shinmyoumaru's. She summons those green alien men who then proceed to just sit in place. Sometimes, they charge at the opponent, but I couldn't figure out how to forcefully move them.


Another thing is when I clear Reimu's second story mode on Normal (not sure about higher difficulties), I get the trophy and everything is fine. Until I close the game and reopen it. ULiL pretends like I never beat it. But it doesn't end there. I have a silver trophy on most scenarios on Normal. I can also get the golden one if I beat those scenarios without dying. But they reset to silver as if I never beat them after closing and reopening the game. Why?

If someone could answer these questions, I'd be very grateful, because...as great as ULiL is...I can't really make sense of it. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on July 28, 2015, 08:18:49 PM
Oh goodness, there's a thread for discussing this game? Good, because I have some questions that I'd like to be cleared up. Starting with Occult Attacks. They're fancy and all, but it occurred to me that some just...don't do anything at all. Or so it seems.

For instance, Mamizou's. She throws a Pok?ball that looks like it's going to do something, but...it doesn't. It seems to deal damage when it hits an opponent while thrown but...nothing else happens. What's the deal with this?

Same goes for Kokoro's. She puts on a mask and...that's it. She doesn't do anything else, but I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong again.

Next one is Miko's. In practice play, I was able to determine the direction (color) I want to throw my enemy to, however I can't do this in Story Mode. Why? And also, is there a difference between choosing the red cape and the blue cape?

Then Shinmyoumaru's. She summons those green alien men who then proceed to just sit in place. Sometimes, they charge at the opponent, but I couldn't figure out how to forcefully move them.


Another thing is when I clear Reimu's second story mode on Normal (not sure about higher difficulties), I get the trophy and everything is fine. Until I close the game and reopen it. ULiL pretends like I never beat it. But it doesn't end there. I have a silver trophy on most scenarios on Normal. I can also get the golden one if I beat those scenarios without dying. But they reset to silver as if I never beat them after closing and reopening the game. Why?

If someone could answer these questions, I'd be very grateful, because...as great as ULiL is...I can't really make sense of it. :V
For Mamizou's occult ability, when you throw the ball, press Z+X+left or right again and the ball should open. Kokoro's stand-still occult ability is a counter, if someone attacks you whilst she's doing the pose she counters back. For Miko, iirc the red cape gives you a physical damage buff and the blue cape gives you a danmaku damage buff, on every mode except practice it's the caught player that chooses which cape you have. For Shinmyoumaru's occult ability you're supposed to go behind the opposing player for the green men to attack them. Dunno about the story mode thing though.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: KegMinami on July 28, 2015, 10:47:17 PM
1.10 came out.

have they gotten rid of the crap that prevents the game from running on normal people's computers yet

There WAS a fix for that. Unfortunately, I tried opening the game after updating, and it wouldn't open. Then I tried to perform the same fix as last time to find that the game's code is apparently different. Sadly, I have no idea what to do this go around.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on July 29, 2015, 12:52:38 AM
I broke through their guard
she tries to push me away, I crush her
like the heretic taoist she was
she didn't want to hear the world of Koishism
so I broke through her door
AND PREACHED (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bPRDMrmfF8)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on July 29, 2015, 06:45:42 AM
Does anyone have a solution for th145.exe / th145-patch.exe not working :( ?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Patorikku on July 29, 2015, 07:05:34 AM
Does anyone have a solution for th145.exe / th145-patch.exe not working :( ?
Would you perchance have th145.exe in a folder with several Japanese characters? Try renaming the folder and exempting any of those letters. I know it sounds silly, but apparently plenty of people fixed their game with it on Windows 8 and such. I guess more recent versions of Windows just freak out when foreign characters are in the path name.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on July 29, 2015, 12:24:03 PM
Patorikku:The thing is, this is with people whose games worked before 1.10, and the game is known to have a stupid reason for not starting related to where nvidia gfx drivers are located. (As in, the game runs a DRM-related check that has nothing to do with actual game pirating and decides it doesn't feel like loading for arbitrary reasons.)

In other news, key Sumireko combo for v1.10; 8A -> Occult Attack -> Jump Up -> 3D Printer Gun. You need at least 3 occult balls for this to be fast enough, but just sliding up under your opponent and casting 8A tends to catch people unsure of which side to block, so it's not hard to confirm hits, and at max spell power... this does 5.6k~ damage. Combos into printer gun otherwise need to start on ground level and only deal like 4k damage AFAIK, so that's a really important combo even if it requires 3 balls.

...except I just glanced at the wiki and it turns out since the last time I looked, someone put up a 3D Printer Gun combo starting with 8A that doesn't even need the occult. ;_; At least this one has about 600 more damage...? Dang. Welllll that's good to know. But yeah, 1.10 has a lot of tweaks that make many character's combo potential a bit different.

edit:Sumireko in general can slide her occult into a few combos, some even at any ball count, to eke out some more damage than you could get otherwise. It seems more damage efficient than her other moves.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on July 29, 2015, 01:00:33 PM
Either way, the tool cuc shared that removed these checks needs updating, it seems. Where is cuc, anyway?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on July 29, 2015, 05:20:59 PM
yeah i refuse to deal with tasofro if they're going to do this crap. not worth encouraging them even by patching it out manually, this is 100% not okay.

apparently they've confirmed the game is blowing up on vista and they apparently didn't test this. good shit guys.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on July 30, 2015, 03:57:26 PM
By the way, any of you guys figured out yet just what the heck 深秘的 might mean on the OST album? :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plubio on July 31, 2015, 02:39:23 AM
By the way, any of you guys figured out yet just what the heck 深秘的 might mean on the OST album? :V

Well, aren't the first two kanjis ( 深秘 ) part of "Shinpiroku" ( 深秘録 )? iirc, "Shinpiroku" means "Record of Deep Mysteries", and 深秘的 is "fukahiteki" isn't it?
深 alone means "depth" and 秘 "secret".... Mmm. 秘的 (hiteki) means something like "confidential", maybe? I guess we can translate it as "Confidential Deep Secrets"?  "Mysterious Deep Secrets"? I couldn't say at all, sorry (my Japanese is not the best one around, gonna improve it in the future tho. Please, correct me if I'm wrong).

---

By the way, tested the game on Windows 10.
I could patch and open the game without any fix (I'm using a Nvidia card).
Yet the game runs at 05-10 fps (it worked at 60 on Windows 8.1 if you're wondering).

Goddamn Tasofro.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on July 31, 2015, 02:48:53 AM
By the way, tested the game on Windows 10.
I could patch and open the game without any fix (I'm using a Nvidia card).
Yet the game runs at 05-10 fps (it worked at 60 on Windows 8.1 if you're wondering).

Goddamn Tasofro.
Oh wow, if I really have to use Win10 at some point, I will most definitely dual-boot with Win7 at least. lol
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plubio on July 31, 2015, 03:29:31 AM
Nevermind, I restarted the computer and everything's working as it should.
Maybe it was something about drivers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plubio on July 31, 2015, 03:32:12 AM
Well, aren't the first two kanjis ( 深秘 ) part of "Shinpiroku" ( 深秘録 )? iirc, "Shinpiroku" means "Record of Deep Mysteries", and 深秘的 is "fukahiteki" isn't it?
深 alone means "depth" and 秘 "secret".... Mmm. 秘的 (hiteki) means something like "confidential", maybe? I guess we can translate it as "Confidential Deep Secrets"?  "Mysterious Deep Secrets"? I couldn't say at all, sorry (my Japanese is not the best one around, gonna improve it in the future tho. Please, correct me if I'm wrong).

---

By the way, tested the game on Windows 10.
I could patch and open the game without any fix (I'm using a Nvidia card).
Yet the game runs at 05-10 fps (it worked at 60 on Windows 8.1 if you're wondering).

Goddamn Tasofro.

EDIT: after a restart everything's working as it should.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Honoakari on July 31, 2015, 06:37:19 AM
Quote from: Plubio
Well, aren't the first two kanjis ( 深秘 ) part of "Shinpiroku" ( 深秘録 )? iirc, "Shinpiroku" means "Record of Deep Mysteries", and 深秘的 is "fukahiteki" isn't it?
深 alone means "depth" and 秘 "secret".... Mmm. 秘的 (hiteki) means something like "confidential", maybe? I guess we can translate it as "Confidential Deep Secrets"?  "Mysterious Deep Secrets"? I couldn't say at all, sorry (my Japanese is not the best one around, gonna improve it in the future tho. Please, correct me if I'm wrong).

深秘 (shinpi) is an obvious pun on 神秘 (shinpi)... So the whole thing becomes "shinpi-teki".

There is a rule which says that on- readings and kun- readings normally do not mix together when two or more kanji form a word. So unless you're really sure that they do mix, you should turn everything in either on- or kun-.

And then we also have 的 (teki), a suffix commonly used to transform nouns into adjectives (in this case, the noun is "shinpi"). It appears in either "on-teki" or "on-on-teki"constructions, the latter being the case here...

As for the translation, 神秘 means "mystery" and 深秘 would mean "deep secret". But since the latter is a pun,  you could very well take the easy way and translate 深秘的 as just "mysterious" (case in which the pun would be lost in the translation; but then again, the same thing would happen even if you translated it as "deeply secretive" or some other similar thing - being based on homophony, the pun simply doesn't work in English).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on August 02, 2015, 05:45:28 PM
A lot of the tweaks may be minor, but I'm really digging it (as a Sumireko player), I can consistently wreck my friend's Mokou now. His Kasen is still quite difficult though... her beacon spellcard just puts out so much pressure it's hard to do much whilst it's onscreen due to tiny bullets everywhere x.x And it's only 700 casting cost so it's almost always out
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Doki-Doki on August 02, 2015, 08:38:21 PM
I wonder, since ULiL seems to fair well better as a HM sequel rather than an expansion pack, do you think we'll be getting a ULiL expansion in a year or two? I mean, adding in a few more extra characters couldn't hurt the game competitively.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on August 03, 2015, 12:16:11 AM
A lot of the tweaks may be minor, but I'm really digging it (as a Sumireko player), I can consistently wreck my friend's Mokou now. His Kasen is still quite difficult though... her beacon spellcard just puts out so much pressure it's hard to do much whilst it's onscreen due to tiny bullets everywhere x.x And it's only 700 casting cost so it's almost always out

I wouldn't call the changes minor, this is the first big balance patch they came out with and some characters had some very important changes. For me, most notable are Koishi changes because she can finally use her melee attacks on command.

This is huge because this opens up A LOT of options for both confirms and pressure. Of course, because of this, the initial moves have been nerfed (so don't worry about the lightbulb, it's relatively smaller on the initial input. However, the second input is probably the same as before, but also adds a counterhit no matter what, which is hilarious, but honestly Koishi needed all the buffs from piss-poor bottom tier that she was.

Expect a combo video pretty soon :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on August 03, 2015, 01:57:55 AM
Oh yeah, I noticed that on Koishi, it's huge. I might actually consider trying to learn her now; she was just so horrendously awkward to try to use for me due to how much her gimmick held her back that I couldn't be bothered.\

Miko's also a lot better because her cape buffs last... I dunno how long, but a lot longer. Maybe until the enemy knocks you down? (I don't play Miko either, so...)

What I meant more is that Sumireko's changes are minor, but my sentence flow was garbage so it didn't look like it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on August 03, 2015, 02:57:29 AM
Miko's also a lot better because her cape buffs last... I dunno how long, but a lot longer. Maybe until the enemy knocks you down? (I don't play Miko either, so...)
It lasts until the opponent gets the next occult ball.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on August 04, 2015, 06:33:18 PM
1.11 is out. Seems like it's just bug fixes atm (ie. it fixes Sumireko's alt clothes glitch), however I can't read moonspeak so I can't say.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ranmilia on August 05, 2015, 12:45:54 AM
My experience:
1.03 and earlier:  Game doesn't launch normally, but the fixpatch makes it work.
1.10: Game does not launch at all, even with fixpatch.
1.11 Game launches normally.

So, good job, some of the DRM or whatever nonsense was going on seems to have been fixed.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on August 05, 2015, 01:06:17 AM
AppLocale still doesn't work though. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: KegMinami on August 05, 2015, 05:03:19 PM
Shoot. Still can't seem to get it running, even with 1.11.

In the meantime, any major changes to Mamizou I should know of?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ezsembler on August 05, 2015, 05:19:49 PM
however I can't read moonspeak so I can't say.
Looks like none knows jp and can't translate patch notes.
Does anyone knows where to get translated pn? Except promt and etc.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Sahuaro on August 05, 2015, 09:13:58 PM
Miko is indeed much better now. I am not alone if her normals were buffed but overall she feels much better now mainly because of the cape actually being usable now instead of forcing you to rush with it because of how short it lasted before. As of right now I am making some combo list to share... will do once I have it finished. Would make a video but I dont have the means to do so xD...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ZellBell on August 06, 2015, 09:45:34 AM
Not that I'm an expert on the touhou fighting games (or japanese for that matter...), but 1.11 does mostly seem to be bug fixes-  :o

- aesthetic changes with the spell change effect, mysterious spot, occult aura, popups etc. (the mysterious spot name popup is shorter and becomes transparent faster)
- fixed crashing on windows vista ( :V)
- fixed a bug from changing the time on the pc
- lots of fixes in regards to network play, including battle statistics, lobby and opponent pairing, being able to save replay even when online match is interrupted
- being able to change window size using ctl-alt-[1-4]
- fixed some problems with colour changes
- fixed Mamizou's capsule opening motion not scaling when in high-air or low-air

Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with the game to figure out what other changes are, minor corrections to Byakuren's and Mokou's moves, but they don't seem to be gamebreaking
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on August 06, 2015, 01:55:04 PM
Well, I certainly am digging Sumireko's occult being useful, Shinmyoumaru's 6C stab being useful, Futo's arrows spreading into multiple ones on plates and her Gate spell card being useful on 4-5 plates, Byakuren karate chop spell card being useful and Koishi's melee being on-demand. I'm waiting warmly for the full changelog because it also feels easier to jump cancel into j.5A with Futo, so theme might be some hitstun increase on [В] and 8C arrow involved.  :3

What I don't like is the loss of not one, but all occult balls when hit during that purple aura after using the occult special attacks once. I understand buffing the occult specials themselves, but making them all-or-nothing attacks pretty much kills what should be a crucial part of the characters' movesets, especially since the aura doesn't go away. What was Tasofro thinking?

On the other hand, it's nice to see Tasofro actually patch the startup problems, the window resize is sweet and the matchmaking lobby got me extremely interested. Hope there will be a translation patch soon, especially since that would also fix the applocale problem.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on August 06, 2015, 02:43:07 PM
What I don't like is the loss of not one, but all occult balls when hit during that purple aura after using the occult special attacks once. I understand buffing the occult specials themselves, but making them all-or-nothing attacks pretty much kills what should be a crucial part of the characters' movesets, especially since the aura doesn't go away. What was Tasofro thinking?
You get all your occult balls back on a regular basis now (I know one trigger is when occult spots end, too lazy to notice the others) so it's not too bad.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on August 06, 2015, 03:13:02 PM
So I made another Koishi combo video utilizing her 1.10/1.11 changes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaH7DROAAZ0)

Koishi is very fun now :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on August 06, 2015, 04:17:48 PM
On the other hand, it's nice to see Tasofro actually patch the startup problems, the window resize is sweet and the matchmaking lobby got me extremely interested. Hope there will be a translation patch soon, especially since that would also fix the applocale problem.
Really, Tasofro should consider removing the system checks altogether because seriously why is it even there it's not even an anti-piracy countermeasure for crying out loud
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Ezsembler on August 06, 2015, 05:10:44 PM

What I don't like is the loss of not one, but all occult balls when hit during that purple aura after using the occult special attacks once
The new occult system much better and adds more balance in game. Now it resets the occult level if you were hit and disables reusing at some seconds. 
At my point Kokoro's first hit is slow and she needs occult counter which earlier she could use one time per round and gets not such useful daggers.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on August 06, 2015, 05:34:12 PM
Really, Tasofro should consider removing the system checks altogether because seriously why is it even there it's not even an anti-piracy countermeasure for crying out loud
someone there has a real bone to pick with modders imo
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on August 07, 2015, 04:29:01 PM
Quote
someone there has a real bone to pick with modders imo

Seems the Japanese Touhou community might be pushing Tasfro to keep us damn, dirty gaijin's out of them registry files.  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on August 08, 2015, 01:23:23 AM
someone there has a real bone to pick with modders imo

Skimming the game files, there seems to be a user agreement requiring people not to mod the game in any way. You have to agree to their terms before you can use their online matchmaking service (which honestly I can't recall if they've ever mentioned before, but the menus are in the game files). It seems that they're worried about cheating.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: snowflake247 on August 08, 2015, 04:59:06 AM
Would something like an English-language patch (when it eventually gets released) be considered "modding the game"?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on August 08, 2015, 06:24:01 AM
Technically it is since you are modifying something inside the game.

...Which brings us to another question: Why check for things that are outside the game, anyway?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on August 08, 2015, 11:54:12 AM
Would something like an English-language patch (when it eventually gets released) be considered "modding the game"?
Depends of whether it's a static patch or something similar to thcrap. The former is considered to be modding since you're changing the game's files, while the latter is not since you aren't touching the game's files at all. However, it seems that this is exactly what Tasofro is going after, which is why the game has problems with certain graphics drivers. This reminds me of Nexon and their anti-hack checks and makes me wonder whether Tasofro intended for this game to be played "competitively", especially with all the character balancing and changes.

I'm guessing that unless the anti-hack checks are removed, we won't even get an in-memory English patch. If they're that against modding, then I guess we're either going to accept it or dive deep into the code.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plubio on August 08, 2015, 07:03:26 PM
I miss the Arcade Mode.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dahel on August 09, 2015, 12:24:43 PM
As bad as the "nope, we won't let you translate our game " thing is, IMO 14.5 doesn't need the translation patch as bad as 12.3 and 135.5 where you had a lot more stuff going on (mostly, character customization).
Yes, it's bad news for people who wants a translation of the story mode and the menus. but at least you don't need to search what each card does and how does the religion works on a wiki that hasn't been updated for weeks, or months
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Clarste on August 09, 2015, 11:17:10 PM
Some people seem to be taking this as "never mod our game in any way", so I'd just like to point out that they only require you to sign the agreement if you want to use their online matchmaking service (which I don't think even exists yet, they just added the agreement to the game files in 1.10). So if you're not using their non-existent service that's probably only usable in Japan anyway, they aren't saying anything one way or another.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Minato-chan on August 10, 2015, 02:41:57 AM
Someone can translate the network menu of 1.11 version
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on August 10, 2015, 06:56:34 AM
Technically it is since you are modifying something inside the game.

...Which brings us to another question: Why check for things that are outside the game, anyway?
Because whoever did it doesn't understand how mods are made. Or cheats. What they did will stop casual people but that's about it.

So let's talk fighting games and netplay and how 'cheats' work. It's a peer to peer connection, meaning the two clients are directly connected, and the only game information that is transferred is input data. If any input data is modified on one side only, the game desyncs and becomes unplayable. If any game data is changed on one side only, the game desyncs and becomes unplayable. If their coding isn't deterministic, the game desyncs and becomes unplayable. So the most you can do is macros, which, honestly, don't even need to link into the program. So they can't be after that.

If they're worried about stats being manipulated for their online matching thingamabob, well, they better figure it out on the server side, because, again, you don't even need to modify the game for that. You can just catch the packets that it sends before they get to the server. You probably don't even need the game for this. Whoops.

So, quite frankly, their protection is either misguided or it is specifically targeting modders.

Not that it'll stop anyone determined enough.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on August 10, 2015, 07:35:28 AM
I think their code guy was just really bored.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on August 10, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
Perhaps there can be something done with online matchmaking so that people who play the English patch version can only play against other people who have the English patch version while those who have the Japanese base game can play against the Japanese base game players.

This could bypass any problems with desyncs in game data for online play and possibly be a work around for the online matchmaking feature for that user agreement.

Or, the English patch can be for everything except the online play... Online fighting game players are pretty hardcore people anyway who would barely look at menus and have everything memorized if they don't speak Japanese... Well I'm just assuming anyway.

Quote
I miss the Arcade Mode.

Me too : (
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Romantique Tp on August 10, 2015, 07:08:04 PM
You could just keep both .exes.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on August 17, 2015, 10:20:49 PM
Hey, I might be a bit off-topic, but I wanted to mention that this site (http://www.eufgci.com/) recently opened up. It's basically a hub for lobbies on a variety of fighting games (including Hisoutensoku and ULiL), so people can create lobbies and find players more easily. It was created with Europe in mind, but the whole world can use it.

While this might seem less reliable than IRC for immediate play, it may also help finding other players, and lobbies are also a nice thing to have. It has Twitter support so you can get notified when people create lobbies. Besides, if any of you plays any of the other games present on the site, that might be of some interest for you.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dream Wanderer on August 18, 2015, 03:48:46 AM
I've been wondering, has anyone made any progress on finding a way around the new issue that was introduced with the 1.10/1.11 patches? (The one that's still preventing some people with Nvidia systems from accessing their .exe's and playing the game.) I'm unsure whether the problem can be fixed with a hex edit similar to the great workaround made last time, or if it's something else that needs investigating. (Has anyone managed to find a code pattern similar to last time? It may not be the same numbers.) I wish I could come up with more possible ways to find a solution and help everyone.  :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on August 20, 2015, 12:53:40 PM
Re: Twilight Frontier's attitude

Their instruction manuals have included a "Disclaimer" section for some time (e.g. the one (http://thwiki.cc/%E6%96%87%E4%BB%B6:%E4%B8%9C%E6%96%B9%E7%BB%AF%E6%83%B3%E5%A4%A9booklet3.jpg) from SWR). The Disclaimer says:
Quote
It is forbidden to analyze the data of this software, such as decompiling its program, etc.

They never liked people modding their games.


has anyone made any progress on finding a way around the new issue that was introduced with the 1.10/1.11 patches?
I've asked the author of the patcher to write a new one that works with 1.11. This time it's a launcher:
http://1drv.ms/1J6yOpF

Put the files in the game folder. Every time you start the game, just run th145launch.exe.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on August 20, 2015, 01:08:04 PM
I've asked the author of the patcher to write a new one that works with 1.11. This time it's a launcher:
http://1drv.ms/1J6yOpF

Put the files in the game folder. Every time you start the game, just run th145launch.exe.
I tried downloading it with Firefox and Chrome, but both blocked it saying it's a virus for some reason. Any way to get around this?

EDIT: Never mind, turns out I can unblock it on Firefox.

EDIT2: There's slowdown on certain spots when I launch it through AppLocale, but other than that looks like it works fine.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on August 20, 2015, 01:24:02 PM
For locale issues, you can also try Locale Emulator. Unlike other similar tools, this one is being regularly updated.
http://xupefei.github.io/Locale-Emulator/
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on August 20, 2015, 01:39:04 PM
By the way, is there any reason the author had to switch from simple patching to DLL hooking?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on August 20, 2015, 03:53:03 PM
The DLL hook is less prone to changes. As long as the protection scheme remains the same, the new launcher should always work.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on August 20, 2015, 04:19:06 PM
I see. Wonder if brliron can find a way to integrate that to the translation patch?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: KegMinami on August 20, 2015, 08:15:37 PM

I've asked the author of the patcher to write a new one that works with 1.11. This time it's a launcher:
http://1drv.ms/1J6yOpF

Put the files in the game folder. Every time you start the game, just run th145launch.exe.

Wow, this actually works for me. Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dream Wanderer on August 24, 2015, 02:35:41 AM
Thank you so much for the link cuc!  You and the creator of this launcher have made myself and many others I'm certain a great deal happier.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Quwanti on August 27, 2015, 07:19:52 PM
So what exactly is this in-game Lobby thing. I doubt I'll get a connection from it, but I'm still interested in how it works.
Well, I somewhat got it figured out, as I got a connection with 300~1400 ping.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on August 30, 2015, 02:54:13 PM
So what exactly is this in-game Lobby thing. I doubt I'll get a connection from it, but I'm still interested in how it works.
Well, I somewhat got it figured out, as I got a connection with 300~1400 ping.

It's basically a random matchmaking with someone else doing the same thing, most likely from japan.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: KegMinami on August 30, 2015, 04:23:48 PM
So what exactly is this in-game Lobby thing. I doubt I'll get a connection from it, but I'm still interested in how it works.
Well, I somewhat got it figured out, as I got a connection with 300~1400 ping.

Can you give me some hints as to how it works? I'm a little clueless...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Tessiro on September 01, 2015, 03:35:40 AM
Hey guys! There's gonna be a little tourney for this game for NA players this week on the 5th, at http://challonge.com/uliltourney2 (http://challonge.com/uliltourney2). I hope you'll be able to join us.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on September 18, 2015, 02:18:42 PM
Anyone has the translated profiles? They are untranslated in the wiki, but i remember seeing them translated here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: winter_hotaru on September 23, 2015, 05:01:17 PM
I made a bit of a video on Miko-sama

Well, It's my first time doing the video in this format, so there's a lot of minor errors here and there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb1Bv1lhaFg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb1Bv1lhaFg)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: shockdude on November 04, 2015, 04:21:02 PM
So apparently a standalone English patch for this game has been in development for a while. Anyone else heard of it?
A download link for the latest release candidate (th145e-RC2 as of this post) is available on thpatch.net's facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/touhoupatchcenter
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Lukesky180 on November 05, 2015, 04:17:10 AM
So apparently a standalone English patch for this game has been in development for a while. Anyone else heard of it?
A download link for the latest release candidate (th145e-RC2 as of this post) is available on thpatch.net's facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/touhoupatchcenter
Yep, it's been in the works for some time now.

The latest release has pretty much everything translated, they're working on ironing out the kinks in formatting and stuff right now.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on November 13, 2015, 05:19:56 PM
*sigh* I remember when he worked on the standalone patch for HM and every so often he posted here on Shrinemaiden.org of his progress and we all gave him feedback on his design choices... good times.  :)

Is there a link to anything where we can see his progress with his patch? Like a blog, a Facebook page or something like that? I would hate for it to be all behind closed doors over at the patch center.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Your Everyday NEET on November 14, 2015, 03:44:38 PM
Is there a link to anything where we can see his progress with his patch? Like a blog, a Facebook page or something like that? I would hate for it to be all behind closed doors over at the patch center.
He gave the progress itself in the readme files within the patch flies itself
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on November 15, 2015, 10:40:36 AM
Ahh, that nice to hear...

But, uh, where exactly douse he host those patch files? I heard it was on Facebook or something but I don't have Facebook.  :derp:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Your Everyday NEET on November 15, 2015, 03:37:00 PM
Ahh, that nice to hear...

But, uh, where exactly douse he host those patch files? I heard it was on Facebook or something but I don't have Facebook.  :derp:
Facebook. I don't Facebook as well, but that doesn't stop me from downloading it.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on February 07, 2016, 05:13:26 AM
(Twitter: 1 (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/692755535486021632), 2 (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/695711149371707392), 3 (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/695720776490573824))

Tasofro update: The long, long-awaited patch 1.20 will be released (http://tasofro.net/diary/view/120) on Feb 9.

Changes to Barrier Guarding 1 (video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy2pIwPU9g4))

- You will be able to input the barrier guard command during a hit-stop frame.
- This is to prevent cases when you couldn't use barrier guard due to frequent hit-stop frames caused by a multi-hit attack.

Changes to Barrier Guarding 2 (video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd3r7aNlSCk))

- Previously when shooting at a barrier defense, the shooter will only be pushed back a limited total distance.
- This limit has been removed; now each shot will push the attacker back a little.

New mechanic: 割り込み宣言 Interrupt Declaration (video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2NYgAzJJdE))

- During a block stun, press the Spell button twice to do an interrupt declaration.
- An interrupt declaration always costs 1000 spell gauge.
- It cannot be used during the opponent's spell card animation.

Judging from the video, an interrupt declaration can bounce the opponent away, so it is quite similar to the old bombing mechanic.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on February 07, 2016, 03:43:31 PM
Oh boy, so pushblock is getting buffed (looks like in a similar fashion to HM's pushblock mechanic now), and we have guard bursts?

RIP Sukuna's guardcrush setup lol
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on February 08, 2016, 03:09:01 PM
Can't say I'm thrilled  :derp:. This is gonna make cross-ups/unders and stagger pressure even more viable compared to going for guard crush.
For instance, I can already see Reimu going for the full meter pillar crush setup and getting repelled right after quick declaration, wasting 1200 meter and possibly even letting the defending Marisa cast 400-meter skittles due to frame advantage lol. And Sumireko guaranteed wakeup damage from gun crush is still gonna be a thing, bomb declaration or not :V.

Well, I at least hope for some individual tweaks in addition to the new mechanics. Would be nice to get Kokoro's permament occult knives back, now that her crush setup can be interrupted.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on February 08, 2016, 05:23:51 PM
Calling for brliron, brliron please standby for update. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on February 11, 2016, 01:38:36 PM
I'm wondering, are these guarding changes and "Interrupt Declaration" features something that people have been demanding from TasFro to implement for a long time? To me it seems like very tiny changes that won't really change much in the long run. Did they really spend all this time after all the hype for this game died down to simply fine tune the guarding mechanic? I really was sure that TasFro were finished developing ULiL since I didn't hear any announcements for further version updates back in 2015. But hey, I am both surprised and thankful at the same time that they haven't simply released it and forgot about it.

Team Occult only just released the English Patch for v1.00 too a little while ago! I bet the team is going to be annoyed to have to go over all their work again to have their patch work with v1.20... if they even intend to do so. If team Occult isn't going to bother with overhauling their hard worked patch simply so we can have fancier guarding then honestly, I am okay with that. I am quite happy with my English patched v1.00 and if team Occult doesn't feel like its worth overhauling their patch to accommodate these small changes, I will shed no tears over it.

I don't think all that patch work on v1.00 has gone to waste though... not by a long shot. Hopefully it is only a matter of copying and pasting their already created code for the previous version and making some minor tweaks to it. Hey, it could be worse. We might be having to deal with a BRAND NEW CHARACTER to translate, code and have team Occult spend sleepless nights over.  :V 
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on February 11, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
Considering that Interrupt Declaration is almost like the Burst mechanic from ArcSys games, I'd say that can be a pretty big game-changer. As for why it took this long, it probably took 'em a lot of testing to finally get it right. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on February 11, 2016, 04:35:42 PM
I don't think they originally planned the guard burst mechanic. It's most likely just a response to a few characters (Sukuna, Kokoro) having guaranteed guard-crush set ups so the pushblock mechanic and burst would prevent that, considering how powerful offense is in this game.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on February 12, 2016, 02:37:06 PM
update 1.21 also out
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on February 12, 2016, 02:43:46 PM
What's changed this time?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on February 12, 2016, 06:21:11 PM
Quote
update 1.21 also out

Daaaammn son, there just pumping them out all of a sudden!

Any news on the changes?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on February 12, 2016, 11:10:39 PM
What's changed this time?

Any news on the changes?

Just bug fixes, as expected from a patch coming out this quickly.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ☆ Hinalyte on February 26, 2016, 06:03:50 AM
I wish there are mirrors of those update patches, because I can't access their site.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: shockdude on February 26, 2016, 07:33:37 PM
I wish there are mirrors of those update patches, because I can't access their site.
Are you able to download from this direct link? http://tasofro.net:8080/arc/th145_update_121b.exe
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on February 26, 2016, 08:01:01 PM
Wasn't there the autopatcher?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ☆ Hinalyte on February 28, 2016, 03:18:21 AM
Are you able to download from this direct link? http://tasofro.net:8080/arc/th145_update_121b.exe
Sadly nope.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on February 28, 2016, 03:57:38 AM
You know what, I'll just go ahead and mirror it here. (https://mega.nz/#!3Z8gULJR!CjqXGzatEv13YAPT6B-XMqDi6hzkzNpbEB0orxJhpY8) Next time though, I'd recommend VPN Gate (http://www.vpngate.net/en/) if you really can't afford a paid VPN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on March 04, 2016, 01:29:21 PM
Tasofro diary updated (http://tasofro.net/diary/view/121).

- Version 1.22 will be released on Mar 7;
- The ranked match test will begin with 1.22, including server-side recording of player profile and history;
- The lobby rooms Easty to Freedom will be closed until Version 1.30;
- Player records will be reset upon the release of 1.30;
- IP address-based games are still available.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on March 09, 2016, 12:45:13 PM
Is there a changelog for the new update, because the game feels different. Faster, for one thing. And I also feel like I see minor differences in characters, but I can't really put my figner on anything. Where Mamizous Pokeballs always color coded?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on March 09, 2016, 04:59:52 PM
Is there a changelog for the new update, because the game feels different. Faster, for one thing. And I also feel like I see minor differences in characters, but I can't really put my figner on anything. Where Mamizous Pokeballs always color coded?

A lot of the changes occurred in the 1.20 patch. You can see the full translated patchlist here
http://pastebin.com/raw/sniE28W9
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on March 09, 2016, 05:34:16 PM
A lot of the changes occurred in the 1.20 patch. You can see the full translated patchlist here
http://pastebin.com/raw/sniE28W9
Huh, I should get around to testing if Mokou's LW is still pure YOLO sometime.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on March 09, 2016, 06:12:40 PM
Huh, I should get around to testing if Mokou's LW is still pure YOLO sometime.

it's much easier to combo into 6aaa > 6CC > SS (SC Cancel) > LW that's for sure.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on March 10, 2016, 05:15:42 PM
Welp, the game's now exiting itself after a while for whatever reason on my end, even with the DLL hook launcher. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on March 10, 2016, 05:33:06 PM
A lot of the changes occurred in the 1.20 patch. You can see the full translated patchlist here
http://pastebin.com/raw/sniE28W9

Ah, thank you for that. I mostly kept playing the English patched version until trying out the lobbies and didn't notice the changes sooner that way.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Fumi on March 12, 2016, 06:26:49 PM
I tried to update but before the update can be installed it throws an error and doesn't install.

Anyone got this issue? I'm using the eng patch btw.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on March 14, 2016, 10:29:43 AM
Has it even been confirmed that the English patch works with this update?

Perhaps Fumi, the English patch exe has been so heavily modified by Team Occult that the auto patcher won't recognize it?

Just my speculation, hopefully some clarification on this will come soon.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on March 14, 2016, 02:56:16 PM
The english patch works entirely separate from the unpatched game, so it won't affect the updater. You'll still have both 1.22b and the english patch 1.11 as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on March 15, 2016, 12:12:23 AM
Assuming you didn't like, decide to overwrite the original exe with the english one.

You'll have to use the japanese exe to play the updated version, the english exe will not be 1.22.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on March 15, 2016, 07:24:16 AM
Ahh, I see. I thought that there might have been a risk of a desync with the English exe and the original exe if one got updated and not the other.

So when you update the Japanese base game to 1.22, the English exe is still the previous version since they are separate entities that don't function off of each other... huh.

Well, as a filthy gaijin that has never touch the original exe I'll just stick to playing my currently outdated English exe until somebody finishes updating the English patch to a new version.  :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on March 19, 2016, 10:09:49 PM
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I've spotted a "Use UPnP" option in the VS Network menu. Does anyone know what it does?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on March 20, 2016, 02:52:36 AM
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I've spotted a "Use UPnP" option in the VS Network menu. Does anyone know what it does?
If your router supports UPnP the game can automatically set up port forwarding without you having to do it manually.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gargamesh on March 21, 2016, 03:58:27 AM
I need help. I am using windows 10, when I open the game it runs fine, but after a while it just closes without any proper explanation/prompt. This only happens to the Jap ver and not the Eng Patch, please  help! :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on March 21, 2016, 04:01:03 AM
Yeah, that also happened to me on Win8, no idea why it happened either, and the DLL hook launcher didn't help too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on March 24, 2016, 09:44:53 AM
Yeah, that also happened to me on Win8, no idea why it happened either, and the DLL hook launcher didn't help too.
I really should have come back to the thread sooner.

Since patch 1.21b, Tasofro has added an IP check. When you launch the game, it will attempt to connect to their server. If the server detects your IP to be from a blocked region (i.e. China, Taiwan, and some other Southeast Asia countries), the game will boot you out after a minute or two.

There are the usual solutions:
- Do not upgrade to the newest version. Version 1.21 (no "b") is the last one without the check.
- If you want to upgrade, deal with the launch check with whichever method you prefer: turning on VPN, blocking the game in your firewall, or turning off your internet connection. After the check is over, you can play the game as long as you don't attempt connecting the official lobby.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on March 24, 2016, 11:17:12 AM
If the server detects your IP to be from a blocked region (i.e. China, Taiwan, and some other Southeast Asia countries), the game will boot you out after a minute or two.
ಠ_ಠ
Really, Tasofro? Couldn't they just make it so that online multiplayer is disabled if that's the case?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: CrystalCreation on March 24, 2016, 05:17:06 PM
When you launch the game, it will attempt to connect to their server. If the server detects your IP to be from a blocked region (i.e. China, Taiwan, and some other Southeast Asia countries), the game will boot you out after a minute or two.

What's the point of blocking certain countries anyway? Don't tell me the guys at Tasofro are racists.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: shockdude on March 24, 2016, 06:43:12 PM
What's the point of blocking certain countries anyway? Don't tell me the guys at Tasofro are racists.
lots of foreign players trying to connect to a server in Japan --> really laggy games for everyone.
Would've been much nicer to simply prevent foreign connections to the server instead of completely killing the game, though.
It could also be the game crashing without an error message but I dunno.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: CrystalCreation on March 24, 2016, 07:41:57 PM
lots of foreign players trying to connect to a server in Japan --> really laggy games for everyone.

I figured there must be a different reason than the one in initially feared. But wouldn?t playing from any non-Japanese country have the same effect? So is there any logical explanation why some regions are blocked and others aren?t? I haven?t tried online mode myself so I don?t really know how it works.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: shockdude on March 24, 2016, 07:58:50 PM
I figured there must be a different reason than the one in initially feared. But wouldn?t playing from any non-Japanese country have the same effect? So is there any logical explanation why some regions are blocked and others aren?t? I haven?t tried online mode myself so I don?t really know how it works.
oh I just noticed the part where there's a specific list of blocked countries. Welp.
Do we know what the full list of countries is? Is it just Asian countries?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: N-Forza on March 25, 2016, 03:49:00 AM
I get the feeling they're trying to cut back on players who run pirated/downloaded copies, but it does seem weird to restrict it like that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on March 25, 2016, 03:53:15 AM
Man, just like the anti-hack stuff they're going at this in all the wrong ways. I mean, it's just like what cuc pointed out. I could just use a VPN, though the free ones usually have shit speed (what I have is pretty much a d20 roll).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on March 29, 2016, 10:54:13 AM
Quote
Since patch 1.21b, Tasofro has added an IP check. When you launch the game, it will attempt to connect to their server. If the server detects your IP to be from a blocked region (i.e. China, Taiwan, and some other Southeast Asia countries), the game will boot you out after a minute or two.

This is probably a stupid question, but douse this IP booting affect only the multiplayer or douse it affect the single player as well? If it affects single player then that is just downright unfair DRM practice that really goes against ZUN's wish for Touhou to be enjoyed by all.

Please don't join the dark side TasFro, along with EA and Konami!  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on March 29, 2016, 01:00:36 PM
This is probably a stupid question, but douse this IP booting affect only the multiplayer or douse it affect the single player as well? If it affects single player then that is just downright unfair DRM practice that really goes against ZUN's wish for Touhou to be enjoyed by all.

Please don't join the dark side TasFro, along with EA and Konami!  :ohdear:

I'm getting this message, whenever I try to click on any of the options in VS network: http://i.imgur.com/aopU868.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/aopU868.jpg)
I assume that is the one, telling me I'm blocked from the network because of my IP. (I am in Europe, so I wonder what they actually have on their banlist).

I've played VS CPU for half an hour now and it didn't boot me, so I guess it's only VS Network that's borked. A shame, since I was finally getting into that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on March 29, 2016, 01:17:14 PM
That's probably just a generic error message, I get booted out of the game even on practice mode for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: N-Forza on March 29, 2016, 02:11:01 PM
It says your user ID isn't eligible and to make a new one, so it's probably generic, although it's hard to tell.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: gargamesh on March 29, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
Many thanks everyone! Got a VPN and the game's kicking like it's new!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on March 30, 2016, 05:19:51 AM
The way ranked matchmaking is supposed to work, you first enable the lobby (γ版), then select 使用プロファイルの選択, which registers your profile at the official server, and assigns a User ID to your profile (tied to your computer hardware). Use 対戦待ちホストを検索して接続 to search for opponents. Additionally, even matches you played by connecting via IP will have their results uploaded to the official server.

Given the reputation of the game's net code, it's probably not a good idea to attempt searching for lobby opponents if you are not located in Japan?

There are 10 ranks, from Easy to Extra+.
(http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/mw1024/be8f9ff3gw1f1oilxm574j20jx027jrd.jpg)

I'm getting this message, whenever I try to click on any of the options in VS network: http://i.imgur.com/aopU868.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/aopU868.jpg)
It says "ERROR: Invalid User ID. Please make a new profile."

Reads like your profile has been damaged? What does your User ID (ユーザーID) look like? Are you seriously unable to even connect via IP?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: 7TC7 on March 30, 2016, 08:52:03 AM
It says "ERROR: Invalid User ID. Please remake your profile."

Reads like your profile has been damaged? What does your User ID (ユーザーID) look like? Are you seriously unable to even connect via IP?

Yes, it showed that message whenever I selected any of the options in VS Network. And it randomly took control away from me and sent my cursor back down to Quit (didn't select it, however). Was kinda creeped out at that point.
After what N-Forza said, I just went to profiles and made a new one (kept the old one, though, because I have no idea what is even connected to your profile, aside from button configurations, and didn't wanna loose any kind of progress). Everything works again with the new one, but I have no idea how the old one got damaged.

(http://i.imgur.com/ZKma85y.png)
Here are the two, old at the top, new at the bottom, but I doubt there can be anything inferred from just that.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on March 30, 2016, 01:18:55 PM
Yes, it showed that message whenever I selected any of the options in VS Network. And it randomly took control away from me and sent my cursor back down to Quit (didn't select it, however). Was kinda creeped out at that point.
After what N-Forza said, I just went to profiles and made a new one (kept the old one, though, because I have no idea what is even connected to your profile, aside from button configurations, and didn't wanna loose any kind of progress). Everything works again with the new one, but I have no idea how the old one got damaged.
Another possibility is that your previous User ID got banned. However I haven't been paying attention to reports since the matchmaking test started, so I don't know if there are other example of people being banned, or what are the possible conditions for that to happen.
Title: Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
Post by: cuc on April 18, 2016, 01:43:49 PM
Patch 1.30 with balance changes, bug fixes and rank match improvements. (I haven't succeeded in downloading the file as of the posting.)

Two big improvements:

1. Barrier Guard is now performed by pressing back + Flight (instead of Special) when blocking, avoiding the confusion between Barrier Guard and special attack;

2. You can now spectate random online matches.
Title: Re: Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
Post by: Quwanti on April 18, 2016, 02:56:34 PM
Patch 1.30 with balance changes, bug fixes and rank match improvements. (I haven't succeeded in downloading the file as of the posting.)

Two big improvements:

1. Barrier Guard is now performed by pressing back + Flight (instead of Special) when blocking, avoiding the confusion between Barrier Guard and special attack;

2. You can now spectate random online matches.
Patch notes. (http://pastebin.com/dJ0qXvCW)
Title: Re: Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 18, 2016, 03:21:21 PM
IP check auto-boot still in place?
Title: Re: Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
Post by: Critz on April 18, 2016, 05:06:56 PM
Huh, now I'll actually remember pushblock is a thing. And spectating random matches seems somewhat amusing too.

Waiting warmly for translated patch notes.

EDIT: Woah, what the hell. Mamizou's 4C is now solely a counter hit, and a fast one to boot. Marisa's j5A got changed into some kind of slap, which is not surprising considering how obnoxiously huge that thing was. And Ichirin is no longer pushed back when pounding the opponent into a wall with 5CCCCCC, woo.
Title: Re: Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
Post by: Serela on April 18, 2016, 10:17:50 PM
Marisa's j5a nerf has ruined all of the combos I used along with taking away one of the main methods for getting in. Dear god why. Suddenly I have no idea how I'm supposed to play her anymore D:
Title: Re: Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
Post by: Plubio on April 18, 2016, 11:10:18 PM
62.1% winrate Marisa, never forget.
I guess that now that the game's getting a PS4 port they're triying to balance it a bit more, into a more healthy/competitive stage? Not sure but.

Buff Miko even more ty xoxo
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 19, 2016, 09:39:31 AM
According to Unabara (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/722129560788021248) and Edelweiss's leader Nal (1 (https://twitter.com/nal_ew/status/722224148844417025), 2 (https://twitter.com/nal_ew/status/722225974381686784)), with the 1.30 patch, they have replaced this game's special effects engine with a new one. The new engine is written by Edelweiss from scratch for their own yet to be released new game. Unabara had thanked Nal and another developer, Nyahhoi-ya's Takahashi Mizushima (http://nyahhoiya.com/) for their assistance on special effects.

Needless to say, asking for help from Edelweiss, who have always been supportive of doujin development, and have shown their technical proficiency — including porting their Astebreed to PS4, is one more step in gearing up for the PS4 port.

But for now, the reality is, the prettier special effects have made the game run slower for everyone, and introduced new bugs. For me, the game also freezes past the splash screen.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 19, 2016, 11:16:44 AM
But for now, the reality is, the prettier special effects have made the game run slower for everyone, and introduced new bugs. For me, the game also freezes past the splash screen.
ayy lmao :getdown:

Seriously though Tasofro, get your shit together.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on April 19, 2016, 12:52:11 PM
B-B-But I could barely get the game to run at a stable frame-rate on my current English patched version. I had to window that bad boy!

Rest in Pepperoni Half-Grand  :X
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 19, 2016, 01:13:35 PM
I guess that now that the game's getting a PS4 port they're triying to balance it a bit more, into a more healthy/competitive stage? Not sure but.
They've been doing that all the time, not just because it's getting a PS4 port or anything. The only thing is that whenever Tasofro sees an issue of something being too strong, they found either roundabout ways of nerfing it, or just nerf it to all hell and make it useless. They're not known for the best balance changes :V

Meanwhile, Koishi does a little hop if she does 8A in neutral and also extended the hitbox to her head. This makes it actually possible to connect from beside the opponent now for better combo abilities. They also gave her the ability to cancel confirmed A moves into A storage now, which could lead to interesting pressure abilities.

Also, this tech isn't new or exclusive to 1.30, but I decided to show it anyways since I originally uploaded it to show another Koishi player about her double cross up :V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tXRYG0TNSs
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 19, 2016, 02:26:01 PM
After more extensive testing, I'm beginning to suspect that most of 1.30's new "bugs" are related to stricter protection schemes, which may now be causing problems to even Japanese players. They seem to have replaced the auto-boot with freezing; the game simply freezes when I'm not connected to the internet; it may also do the IP-check frequently instead of only at startup.

If you are experiencing the problems, and simply want to play a stable version instead of dealing with their escalating schemes, patch 1.21 is here:
Download (https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=E04D86FB0C8F489C!210&authkey=!AFPCntEP3SUR158&ithint=file%2cexe)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Serela on April 19, 2016, 02:31:14 PM
Why is tasofro so crazy????? Why do they care so much?

Also, Sumireko's 8C has become so, so much more useful. It's angled far more to the right instead of flying almost straight down, making it a vastly more useful bullet to just throw out as pressure (something she didn't have a lot of options for before imo), ontop of having ridiculous damage, good chip and spirit damage, etc. It also means I have to pay more attention to my spirit... I'm running out pretty often now which is bad for capitalizing on my hits :T
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 19, 2016, 02:41:00 PM
Speaking of which, how's the guy that made the patcher and the DLL hook launcher doing, cuc?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 19, 2016, 02:51:19 PM
... This game is a mess. I have no clue what they're possibly thinking anymore.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on April 19, 2016, 07:24:35 PM
Can confirm the game freezes after the initial loading screen if not connected to the internet. I can't see an universe in which this was a good idea for DRM.

Beyond that, I haven't experienced any new bugs or graphical issues besides Sumireko's uniform going back to its base green color during her Last Word. Actually, the game runs a bit smoother now: It goes to 50 FPS in the Outside World stage when before it only went to 40, and every other stage stays at 60 FPS at all times.

But this is just me, of course. Hopefully they fix whatever is causing issues with the majority of the players and tone their zany DRM schemes down a notch.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 19, 2016, 10:14:56 PM
Can confirm the game freezes after the initial loading screen if not connected to the internet. I can't see an universe in which this was a good idea for DRM.
This isn't even DRM. If that was the case they'd have you make an account or otherwise verify that you purchased the game. What this looks like is Tasofro attempting to prevent non-Japanese players from playing online with their "lobby" feature. However, if that was the case the game would just prevent you from using the lobby if it detects your IP as non-Japanese.

Upon startup, once the title music begins to play, the game connects to flets-st1180.kamome.or.jp on TCP port 8888, followed by TCP port 443. Very few data is sent through these sessions. If for whatever reason these connections can't be made or are terminated prematurely, the game will freeze shortly afterward. This means that an internet connection and access to the aforementioned server is required to play the game, whether it's single-player or IP-based player-to-player.

This behavior seems more like regional lockout, since regions that are on a blacklist won't be allowed to play the game at all. Perhaps it's some form of anti-piracy measure targeting regions with high piracy rates? Regardless, many people can personally confirm that the game works from U.S.-based IP addresses, though I still wouldn't recommend using the online lobby due to the game explicitly stating that the feature is to be used by players in Japan only.


Addendum: The launcher that patches the game to ignore DLL hooks such as the one used by nVidia hybrid graphics still works with this latest version.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 19, 2016, 11:26:42 PM
Again, I maintain the position that they could've just disabled the online multiplayer if the connection can't be made. At most this is an inconvenience that's more annoying than it has any right to be.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plubio on April 20, 2016, 12:32:01 AM
So what if you did buy the game and you're playing outside Japan?
This is bullshit.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: aUsernameIsFineToo on April 20, 2016, 12:49:39 AM
So what if you did buy the game and you're playing outside Japan?
This is bullshit.
I agree. It's like buying a DVD overseas only to return home and find out it doesn't play on your DVD player (which is exactly what regional lockout is). Hopefully the game can be tricked into working or even better, have the region check patched out.

Does the game not work for you even with an internet connection?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 20, 2016, 01:48:06 AM
Three letters: VPN.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 20, 2016, 05:06:57 AM
Three letters: VPN.
Not a good solution if you wanna play against others with that added latency.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 20, 2016, 05:55:05 AM
This isn't even DRM. If that was the case they'd have you make an account or otherwise verify that you purchased the game. What this looks like is Tasofro attempting to prevent non-Japanese players from playing online with their "lobby" feature. However, if that was the case the game would just prevent you from using the lobby if it detects your IP as non-Japanese.

Upon startup, once the title music begins to play, the game connects to flets-st1180.kamome.or.jp on TCP port 8888, followed by TCP port 443. Very few data is sent through these sessions. If for whatever reason these connections can't be made or are terminated prematurely, the game will freeze shortly afterward. This means that an internet connection and access to the aforementioned server is required to play the game, whether it's single-player or IP-based player-to-player.

This behavior seems more like regional lockout, since regions that are on a blacklist won't be allowed to play the game at all. Perhaps it's some form of anti-piracy measure targeting regions with high piracy rates? Regardless, many people can personally confirm that the game works from U.S.-based IP addresses, though I still wouldn't recommend using the online lobby due to the game explicitly stating that the feature is to be used by players in Japan only.


Addendum: The launcher that patches the game to ignore DLL hooks such as the one used by nVidia hybrid graphics still works with this latest version.

CMIIW but I recall unabara saying they don't have any idea about IPs being unable to connect to their site. I think this block is similar. For one, in Indonesia, not all IPs are blocked- just some players who happen to be unable to access tasofro's site gets this freezes/crash.

This isn't even a region block anymore if that is the case. Not to mention, ZUN would probably get pretty pissed if tasofro does such thing.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 20, 2016, 08:10:37 AM
Not a good solution if you wanna play against others with that added latency.
Still better than having the game freeze on you just because you had the misfortune of living somewhere that can't connect to Tasofro's server, at any rate. Of course, better alternatives would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on April 20, 2016, 11:27:00 AM
They're not going to fix this aren't they?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on April 20, 2016, 01:37:44 PM
More evidence is collecting with these actions that TasFro is indeed racist.

They KNOW that Touhou is popular outside of Japan with ZUN going to conventions in America for crying out loud!  >:(

Fuck DRM
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: N-Forza on April 20, 2016, 02:16:29 PM
Can everyone just chill out? If Tasofro was racist, they certainly wouldn't have sold me the 8 copies of ULiL I bought last year, nor would they have asked me how the players liked it.

They're probably being a little over-zealous with the online lockout, but I don't think they're stopping anyone from at least doing local play.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 20, 2016, 02:21:06 PM
They're probably being a little over-zealous with the online lockout, but I don't think they're stopping anyone from at least doing local play.
Has anyone asked Tasofro to sort this out, at the very least?

By the way, for the record I'm attributing this more to poor programming practices rather than outright malicious intent.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on April 20, 2016, 03:40:41 PM
Quote
for the record I'm attributing this more to poor programming practices rather than outright malicious intent.

After dealing with DRM crap from Steam, EA, Ubisoft and a host of other game developers, It saddens me to see that even doujin circles are trying to get in on this awful trend. If TasFro is so concerned with keeping their multiplayer lag free then there are many other better ways to go about rectifying that problem than just downright stopping people from playing the game... especially those who *bought* the disk in front of them but had to fly back home away from Japan.

It's not the first time that a game company has screwed over their loyal customers. Anybody remember the Payday 2 backstabbing when the company who made it said "we will never add micro-transactions to the game, never!" and then later on they did anyway? Companies need to be held accountable for their actions!

TasFro has to at least make a statement saying if this is an accidental fault or if they are deliberately trying to stop westerners from playing the game. Couldn't they at least do something as simple as that so that we don't try and guess what their intentions are?

I mean, bloody hell, couldn't they are least use offshore servers or something to put the pressure off of the Japan only community and lag? Anything is better than locking people who PAID for the game out of their purchased product.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on April 20, 2016, 03:52:32 PM
I checked this thread yesterday, learned about the IP block, and decided to take a look at it.
And so I made a crack for that: http://www.mediafire.com/download/5a96dv4rr9vrv0g/th145_130_no_ip_block.zip
Some notes:
- I'm not in a blocked region, so I could only test by disconnecting from internet.
- I didn't test the netplay.
- I don't understand what I made. Without internet connection, the game was stuck in a loop, I changed an instruction to make it go out of the loop (JGE -> JMP). I don't know what that loop was doing. I might have completely broken the netplay. And as I said above, I didn't test the netplay.
- Due to a bug in th145arc, some textures fail to load, and are replaced with white or black squares. Make a dash and you'll see. Fixed
- It is based on the English patch, and so it have a lot of cracks from the english patch. If the English patch works for your nvidia card, this should work too. And it should work on XP (despite a font problem).
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 20, 2016, 03:59:36 PM
- Due to a bug in th145arc, some textures fail to load, and are replaced with white or black squares. Make a dash and you'll see.
They also recently switched to a new VFX engine, could that have anything to do with that?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on April 20, 2016, 04:17:30 PM
I don't think so, th145arc only replaces files, it should not be concerned with the graphic engine. Plus, I've already had this bug with the HM patch: http://i.imgur.com/RToWSjp.jpg
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 20, 2016, 04:23:16 PM
Huh. Did you manage to resolve the one in HM though?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on April 20, 2016, 04:27:47 PM
No, I've been able to avoid it by not unpacking/repacking th145.pak, thanks to Riatre computing the original RSA key used for encrypting the archives. To get around it the same way, we'd need to not unpack/repack th145.pak and th145b.pak, and so we'd need to add a 3rd archive. I'm working on it.

Edit: fixed. I updated the download link above.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on April 23, 2016, 12:50:50 PM
One of patch 1.30's bigger tweaks is changing the property of Kasen's Occult Attack from projectile to melee. The next day Tasofro released patch 1.31 to roll back this change. Then they realised this patch's "fix" of an incorrect behavior when bouncing from stage edges would crash the game, and immediately released patch 1.31b.

BTW, unlike patches of the 1.2x period, which continued to use the 1.11 executable, patch 1.31b has a different .exe file from 1.30.

I wonder if we'll see any more patches in the weeks before they show ULiL for PS4 at Reitaisai.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 23, 2016, 02:59:07 PM
One of patch 1.30's bigger tweaks is changing the property of Kasen's Occult Attack from projectile to melee. The next day Tasofro released patch 1.31 to roll back this change. Then they realised this patch's "fix" of a bug about incorrect behavior when bouncing from stage edges would crash the game, and immediately released patch 1.31b.
:getdown:
Good fucking God Tasofro, your programmers are pretty lol. Really, I like you guys, but this is just hilariously bad. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Plubio on April 23, 2016, 07:42:19 PM
Ignoring programming affairs (it's kinda sad tbh....):

Quote
One of patch 1.30's bigger tweaks is changing the property of Kasen's Occult Attack from projectile to melee.

Who thought this would be a good balance idea?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on April 24, 2016, 01:31:48 AM
I'm gonna echo Gpop's statement that Tasofro doesn't exactly make the smartest balance changes. :V
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 07, 2016, 12:12:04 PM
It seems like they admitted that the whole game freeze thing is a bug now. (The IP block thing is also not intentional in the first place).
I assume this is caused by the in-game update checker they implemented since 1.30 (or 1.22?).

Though, they should have announced it...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 07, 2016, 05:02:12 PM
Well, at the very least they admitted it was a mistake.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: ZM on May 08, 2016, 04:29:30 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/4A0rZ4w.jpg)

Whoa.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on May 08, 2016, 04:49:41 AM
Huh, wonder if her story's gonna take place after LoLK or before.

Anyway, is she gonna be purely console-exclusive (*cough*Astebreed*cough*) or a timed exclusive?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 08, 2016, 04:53:14 AM
Unless Tasofro announces Reisen for the PC version, please keep this thread focused on PC, and discuss the news in the PS4 thread from now on, thanks :-)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on May 08, 2016, 02:43:32 PM
It seems like they admitted that the whole game freeze thing is a bug now. (The IP block thing is also not intentional in the first place).
I assume this is caused by the in-game update checker they implemented since 1.30 (or 1.22?).

Though, they should have announced it...
I almost forgot. Are you talking about this post (http://tasofro.net/support_forum/viewtopic.php?id=382) on their support forum?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 08, 2016, 03:11:34 PM
I almost forgot. Are you talking about this post (http://tasofro.net/support_forum/viewtopic.php?id=382) on their support forum?

Well... that wasn't where I figured it out, I was merely looking for reports about it on their twitter. But I guess the above thread also means the same thing?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 09, 2016, 03:45:20 AM
To clarify, cuc, Fear meant this tweet (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/726137211834392576) where someone mentioned about the crashing. Then Unabara replied that he confirmed it as a bug.
This was back on April 30th

But still:
Quote
"インターネット接続が無い状態だと同様のタイミングでゲーム止まる不具合を確認できました"

"We've confirmed a bug that there are certain times where, if you don't have an internet connection, the game will crash/freeze."

At least they also acknowledged that needing internet is also a bug. This is a good step towards fixing the latest problems.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on May 09, 2016, 06:51:39 AM
Quote
We've confirmed a bug that there are certain times where, if you don't have an internet connection, the game will crash/freeze.

Hmmm... the thing I'm thinking of here is that they haven't actually acknowledged if IP address lockouts are actually a part of this problem or not. They said it was only if you don't have an internet connection, not if your IP address is outside of Japan.

The possibility of them actually having a Gaijin lockout that was intentional is still there unless they say that was a bug as well.  :ohdear:
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on May 09, 2016, 08:12:19 AM
I guess in its current state, the game needs internet because it needs to contact tasofro's servers (even if I don't know why it needs to). And when the game freezes, that's because it can't reach tasofro's servers.
And within regions where tasofro's IP is blocked, the game can't reach tasofro's servers, and so the game freezes.

But yes, we can't exclude the fact that the IP block was intentional, and the game freezing without an internet connection may be only a side effect of this IP block.
Maybe we will see in the next update. They may fix that, and if they do something like keeping the connection but checking if the computer have internet before doing so, the possibility that this is an IP block will still be there.

On another note, tasofro seems to have stopped releasing updates for now, so we'll work on updating the english patch for the new game version. And I'll update the thing I made to remove the IP block as well.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 09, 2016, 10:54:23 AM
Hmmm... the thing I'm thinking of here is that they haven't actually acknowledged if IP address lockouts are actually a part of this problem or not. They said it was only if you don't have an internet connection, not if your IP address is outside of Japan.

The possibility of them actually having a Gaijin lockout that was intentional is still there unless they say that was a bug as well.  :ohdear:

I guess in its current state, the game needs internet because it needs to contact tasofro's servers (even if I don't know why it needs to). And when the game freezes, that's because it can't reach tasofro's servers.
And within regions where tasofro's IP is blocked, the game can't reach tasofro's servers, and so the game freezes.

But yes, we can't exclude the fact that the IP block was intentional, and the game freezing without an internet connection may be only a side effect of this IP block.
Maybe we will see in the next update. They may fix that, and if they do something like keeping the connection but checking if the computer have internet before doing so, the possibility that this is an IP block will still be there.

On another note, tasofro seems to have stopped releasing updates for now, so we'll work on updating the english patch for the new game version. And I'll update the thing I made to remove the IP block as well.

This one is an older problem. I can't cite resource, but as far as I recall they admitted that their server provider blocks some IP (and they can't really do anything about it).

In the first place, it's not exactly a "region" block. For one, some people from my country can't access it, while some others (majority) can.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: monhan on May 09, 2016, 12:41:39 PM
This one is an older problem. I can't cite resource, but as far as I recall they admitted that their server provider blocks some IP (and they can't really do anything about it).

In the first place, it's not exactly a "region" block. For one, some people from my country can't access it, while some others (majority) can.

Not to mention that the same thing is happening on the Japanese side as well, so that kicked the "blocking gaijin" theory out the window.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: HalfGrand on May 09, 2016, 05:17:09 PM
Quote
This one is an older problem. I can't cite resource, but as far as I recall they admitted that their server provider blocks some IP (and they can't really do anything about it).

Ahhh, so it's the company that hosts their servers that blocks certain IP's and it isn't a deliberate effort on TasFro's front to keep us gaijin's out. Gotcha. Perhaps since they are a small doujin circle, they could only afford cheap server options for the game and one of those ways that the server provider keeps their costs down is by blocking IP's from long distances that would be resource intensive to those servers?

The plot thickens!  :V

Quote
On another note, tasofro seems to have stopped releasing updates for now, so we'll work on updating the english patch for the new game version. And I'll update the thing I made to remove the IP block as well.

Brliron you glorious guy, show TasFro how it's done for great justice!  :D

But wait, what about the whole potential update where TasFro might add Reisen as a fighter in the PC version? I mean, it hasn't been announced as concrete yet but that will mean another whole story branch for Reisen to be added if it is announced for the PC version. Is it worth updating the English patch yet if something like that is potentially on its way in the future?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on May 09, 2016, 09:35:45 PM
I think Reisen on PC won't happen soon. It don't think it will happen before the PS4 release, and I'm quite sure the PS4 release won't happen anytime soon.
On the other hand, updating the patch won't take that much time. Well, translating all the Reisen-related stuff would take some time, but the things to translate between 1.11 and 1.31b are close to none. And on the technical side, we don't need months to update the patch. Well, we didn't do it because it still takes some hours, and we didn't want to waste these hours while the updates were coming every week.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: FearNagae on May 10, 2016, 05:40:02 AM
I think Reisen on PC won't happen soon. It don't think it will happen before the PS4 release, and I'm quite sure the PS4 release won't happen anytime soon.
On the other hand, updating the patch won't take that much time. Well, translating all the Reisen-related stuff would take some time, but the things to translate between 1.11 and 1.31b are close to none. And on the technical side, we don't need months to update the patch. Well, we didn't do it because it still takes some hours, and we didn't want to waste these hours while the updates were coming every week.

Thank you! Your IP block removed version is a huge help. It also seems to work in the latest version.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on May 11, 2016, 09:44:54 AM
New version of the no ip block patch. This one is based on v1.31b, so it may contain some changes tasofro made between v1.30 and v1.31b that weren't changed when using the old no ip block patch.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/597euqbj6jkcqw9/th145_131b_no_ip_block.zip
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: shockdude on May 12, 2016, 08:37:26 AM
On another note, tasofro seems to have stopped releasing updates for now, so we'll work on updating the english patch for the new game version. And I'll update the thing I made to remove the IP block as well.
Cool, looking forward to it!
In addition to the 1.31b update, are there any other changes or bugfixes that we can expect in the new English patch? I know the 1.11e patch currently has a minor text alignment bug in the Story character select and the 2P side of the Versus character select; the title of the first spellcard is a bit too far to the right.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: N-Forza on May 12, 2016, 01:47:47 PM
I talked with someone from TasoFro recently and they told me they didn't do any kind of banning for connecting from foreign countries. It was a matter of lag, where if your connection was below a certain threshold, then you were disconnected, simple as that. I forgot to ask about needing to make new accounts, but they did mention that they banned only as a security concern, what with that bug that could be used maliciously a while back.

I might not have understood everything 100% but I'm at least 80% certain they are not purposefully trying to harsh on foreigners. If more countries were closer to Japan where the majority of the playerbase is, it wouldn't be as pronounced. Although as was mentioned before, the disconnecting was experienced by a bunch of Japanese players too.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on May 17, 2016, 09:54:20 AM
In addition to the 1.31b update, are there any other changes or bugfixes that we can expect in the new English patch? I know the 1.11e patch currently has a minor text alignment bug in the Story character select and the 2P side of the Versus character select; the title of the first spellcard is a bit too far to the right.
Oops, I forgot to answer to that.
Yes, why not. But in order to fix these bugs, we need to be aware of them. For example, I didn't know about this bug, and while I could have seen it for 2P side in VS mode, I don't think I would have found it by myself in story mode.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Splashman on May 20, 2016, 08:31:26 PM
English patch updated to v1.31 (unofficial release). (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19122.msg1258938.html#msg1258938)
This one comes with a network mode fix by brlrion, but I haven't been able to test it myself. Please report any bugs and oddities in the thread.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: SuperVehicle-001 on May 22, 2016, 12:53:34 AM
English patch updated to v1.31 (unofficial release). (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19122.msg1258938.html#msg1258938)

Unofficial? Is it not finished yet or something?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: XvSpitFirevX on May 30, 2016, 06:45:48 PM
When I see "Unofficial" I see that it means "Fan-Made".
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on June 18, 2016, 08:49:45 AM
Unabara: (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/743860821843841024) If nothing goes wrong, patch 1.32 will be live on June 21.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: cuc on June 21, 2016, 09:45:36 AM
Patch 1.32 is live. The startup crash is gone. No balance changes.

There are some bug fixes:
AI no longer fall into a state of moving in one direction repeatedly;
story mode double KO no longer crash the game;
the Lunar Capital's projectile slowdown effect no longer disappears first.

As well as changes to Practice mode behavior:
the dummy now only returns to its designated horizontal location only after being hit or guarding;
the dummy will move to the designated horizontal location before repeating the automatic upward or downward movement.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on June 27, 2016, 09:17:42 PM
The game seems to work without an internet connection now. Does it work as well in a region unable to connect to tasofro's servers?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Leon゠Helsing on June 29, 2016, 05:23:53 AM
Works fine here.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: RoamerB on February 28, 2017, 12:49:10 PM
Just a note that there's now a new patch on the tasofro site: ver.1.40 beta.
I'm not entirely sure what's this about since I haven't applied it yet...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: brliron on February 28, 2017, 11:24:46 PM
Mostly bugfixes and balancing, it seems.
And a few sentences in story mode were changed.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Splashman on March 01, 2017, 10:33:59 PM
I found this in 1.40b: https://imgur.com/a/lHsXA

(http://i.imgur.com/zgh3aHS.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/RMH3WiH.png)
弾速が遅くなる程度の怪奇
低所に危険が満ちる程度の怪奇
門に近寄るほど死が迫る程度の怪奇
ボールに癒しのパワーが宿る程度の怪奇
ボールに天罰のパワーが宿る程度の怪奇
戦場が狭くなっていく程度の怪奇
オカルトアタック使い放題になる程度の怪奇
 
Bizarreness: Bullet speed slows down
Bizarreness: Lower places get dangerous
Bizarreness: The closer one gets to the gate, death approaches?
Bizarreness: Healing power lies in the balls
Bizarreness: Heavenly punishment lies in the balls
Bizarreness: The battlefield gets narrower
Bizarreness: Use as many occult attacks as you like


What. Do. You. Think?

Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: RoamerB on March 01, 2017, 11:32:43 PM
I found this in 1.40b: https://imgur.com/a/lHsXA

(http://i.imgur.com/zgh3aHS.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/RMH3WiH.png)
弾速が遅くなる程度の怪奇
低所に危険が満ちる程度の怪奇
門に近寄るほど死が迫る程度の怪奇
ボールに癒しのパワーが宿る程度の怪奇
ボールに天罰のパワーが宿る程度の怪奇
戦場が狭くなっていく程度の怪奇
オカルトアタック使い放題になる程度の怪奇
 
Bizarreness: Bullet speed slows down
Bizarreness: Lower places get dangerous
Bizarreness: The closer one gets to the gate, death approaches?
Bizarreness: Healing power lies in the balls
Bizarreness: Heavenly punishment lies in the balls
Bizarreness: The battlefield gets narrower
Bizarreness: Use as many occult attacks as you like


What. Do. You. Think?

The text is the descriptions for each Ocullt Ball effect originaly seen in the PS4 version and now added to the PC one. The Mokou sprites are originaly used in the PS4 version for her last attack in Reisen's story and might suggest her eventual addition to the PC version.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Splashman on March 02, 2017, 12:57:41 AM
That's what I assumed.
Now, it doesn't have to prove anything that Reisen's gonna show up on PC, but it still is interesting that they'd (carelessly or intentionally) leave PS4 assets in there. Unfortunately they're non-indexed files, so we don't have their proper files names.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: RoamerB on March 02, 2017, 01:03:02 AM
At the very least, we have video evidence of the Occult Ball texts from footage of ver1.40beta:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2R1S3uGhq8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2R1S3uGhq8)
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Splashman on March 02, 2017, 01:18:58 AM
Yeah, I just confirmed it myself.
(http://i.imgur.com/rmqKWrF.png)

Looks like we still have some patching to do...
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: mauve on March 11, 2017, 08:39:46 PM
it amazes me that tasofro continues to break their own game
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: RoamerB on March 12, 2017, 05:25:06 PM
it amazes me that tasofro continues to break their own game
Please elaborate.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: hazerddex on March 16, 2017, 03:49:14 AM
The text is the descriptions for each Ocullt Ball effect originaly seen in the PS4 version and now added to the PC one. The Mokou sprites are originaly used in the PS4 version for her last attack in Reisen's story and might suggest her eventual addition to the PC version.
that good news if true
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on March 31, 2017, 07:05:26 PM
Patch 1.40 released!
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Critz on March 31, 2017, 07:33:46 PM
Aaaaand, it's nothing. What's the point?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: PK on March 31, 2017, 08:33:13 PM
For real? Did they really change nothing at all?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Splashman on March 31, 2017, 10:27:13 PM
Of course they changed stuff, but it's all balancing and nothing obvious:
https://pastebin.com/E8vZ5at1
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Dream Traveler on April 28, 2017, 02:25:20 AM
A few major things were changed. While playing I noticed that Koishi's occult attack now rings and increases it's radius automatically without having to activate it. Kokoro's occult attack also received an adjustment so now you only have to counter once to put her in knife throwing mode and it lasts the whole match instead of until you get hit again. (Additionally, depending on the number of occult balls you have the knives will become other sharp weapons commonly associated with Kuchisake-onna like scissors and sickles.) They're might be other changes as well.

Also, has anyone had any problems getting the original .exe to run after the latest ver. 1.41 update? I've tested it and it seems to be a problem with the current version of Team Occult's English patch. It works fine until I apply the patch to the files.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: hazerddex on April 29, 2017, 03:14:43 AM
whats in update 1.41 that we just got?
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Gpop on April 29, 2017, 06:00:23 AM
whats in update 1.41 that we just got?
it seems to be mostly fixes on the lobby/matchmaking issues that popped up in the 1.40 patch. Nothing else really new.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: hazerddex on April 29, 2017, 06:23:11 AM
it seems to be mostly fixes on the lobby/matchmaking issues that popped up in the 1.40 patch. Nothing else really new.
so no resen :(
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Spotty Len on April 29, 2017, 08:48:33 AM
You can safely assume we won't get Reisen in ULiL, they said the PC version was final and they are most likely focusing on AoCF.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: CrestedPeak9 on May 01, 2017, 12:59:00 PM
Uh, is it just me, or did the newest update screw something up? The game won't launch now, and it doesn't appear to have a crash log.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: jhun on May 01, 2017, 04:38:39 PM
From what I remembered, Lunatic AI just got very hard.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Maple on June 09, 2017, 10:44:03 PM
I have a notice. The English wiki has pages on this game, but lacks screenshots from the PS4-exclusive content. I could fill it myself like i did with the PC version, but i don't have a PS4 and lol no PS4 emulation.
I didn't check much about it but i don't think it's very advanced and my computer is rather weak anyway.

So, because i can't get my hands on the game, i request someone to either edit the wiki themself or give me the images so i can upload them.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87
Post by: Splashman on July 04, 2017, 06:28:11 PM
Heads up: ULiL 1.41 is now compatible with thcrap.

Full translation support will still take a while, but we're getting there.