Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Hakurei Shrine~ => Touhou Addict Recovery Center => Topic started by: Dollywitch on July 23, 2009, 03:25:11 PM
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I've noticed that from a few comments I've been reading on this forum. Feel free to move this to a more general area as it comments on fandoms in general. I'll probably become a lot less popular after this but I need to get it off my chest.
Recently, I brought up anime and Touhou on the 2fort2furious forum(a popular TF2 sever). They made fun of me for it, but there was a particular turning point in the argument when this place came up, and I said "ah actually they're not so bad at all, in fact there's some people that would agree with you about some of the fans". They made Shrine Maiden to be full of the kind of people that draw Wriggle x Yukkuri Yukari etc. and they percieved my response as being in support of that. They also attacked Weeabootique which I've also seen some here doing(it's not THAT bad).
After that I get posts like "Wow, you're the worst person ever". They proved themselves to be one of the nastiest, irrational bunch of people I've encountered over a while, all because I basically didn't accept that all Touhou fans were all perverted idiots. Their primary "evidence" for this was crossposting the Yukkuri article on the Touhou wiki, and further tore into me for even trying to "defend it". It was automatically wrong for trying to defend something, this was a consistant theme, they didn't think they actually had to read my posts and debunk my points.
Of course, no argument is really automatically wrong except this one, but the attitude people have towards anime fans, and now Touhou fans apparently, is that irrational hatred is always logical.
But I start seeing hints of that same kind of attitude in a lot of people around here. I don't think those people are vicious sociopaths like the 2F2F crowd, but it's still something I'm wary of.
Now there are certain kinds of Weeaboo I'm not too fond of, you might have seen me refer to the "Kingdom Hearts" style Weeaboo. There's nothing wrong with that game, or all it's fans, but I've found that it has one of the higher rates of the fluffy, ES SO KAWAII xD nonsense especially since it's combining the "Nerdy fangirl" elements of both western(disney/cute cartoons in general) and eastern culture(final fantasy etc.). However, unlike 2fort2furious, that doesn't mean I tear them apart. Some people don't understand this. I have a friend who fits this description on the surface but isn't really all that annoying at all.
Just because something annoys you, doesn't mean. Have you seen what an unbelievable shithole the Transformers community is because some people can't accept that some fans don't like the new movies? Again, it started with annoying fans, unable to let go of the original and denying any changes. All of a sudden, these people were outnumbered by vicious Internet Tough Guys who are taking a moral highground that can't logically exist.
Yes, it's kind of annoying. That doesn't mean you should form a militia the size of the internet to tear them down. They're just fans. Whereas these people, the 2fort2furious crowd too(who are, as I pointed out, just another kind of nerd, appreciating similra Rofl so Random xD cartoony action, and should stick by their fellow nerds), are becoming something much worse. Annoying fans are sometimes thoughtless of others, but relatively innocent. What the 2F2F guys were doing were both playing at a "tough guy" image intolerant of this "fluffy" fandom, but also created abstract standards for behaviour nothing to do with any logical system of ethics. They're glorifying schoolyard bully ethics and acting like it makes them more mature.
And that's what both causes that stupid rivarly between western vidya geek and weeaboo geek, and destroys fanbases.
Now, I'm really really worried that's what's happening with Touhou fandom. I'm relatively new to it, but I see a lot of the initial signs.
What I'm saying is that all the unbelievable crap in the Touhou fandom, yes, it is annoying, it is something I'll speak out against, but you don't have to care. The minute people start creating abstract standards for "a better fan", "a more mature fan", or contrast one fanbase to another, that's when it all falls apart. People aren't at fault for being fanboys. "Fault" should mean something wrong, with a demonstratable intentional negative effect. Not only is it nor part of any noteworthy ethical system, it's not something that can logically fit in one.
In this day and age, geeks should have a lot more power than they do. But what you see is geeks cannibalising each other even if the mainstream doesn't, setting these elaborate standards. I think it's probably something that happens in a lot of minorities too - you get a lot of segregation in some areas between a "proper" gay guy and a silly one. And you know, it's great to point this out as people can often become "fanboys" of their own status. I think overly camp gay guys are probably being ridiculous. But does that mean I should be an ass to them? No! It's not going to help the problem.
Now I know there's one or two people that mark themselves as outspoken, and I'm not trying to offend you personally, not naming names. I'm not just talking about being "outspoken", but about something that I do see as happening in the near future that will make it surprisingly difficult just to enjoy the fucking comics and games. Do we really have to take all these terrible Doujins seriously? No. Chances are, we're taking it much more seriously than the authors. I find it ironic people keep blasting ZUN for commitment to consistancy but them act like the Doujin authors are really "into" their work. Chances are ZUN does really care about his characters and stories. This is another artefact of the fractured fandom - people identify the flaws and start blasting the thing they love, again as if it makes them more "Mature" to accept it. Transformers again, the G1 cartoon was cheesy as hell, so obviously people aren't going to shut up about it(and ignore the comic).
Of course, NOT taking things seriously can cause problems too - another staple of the internet tough guy/"better fan" is to insist people should not care about certain things. But you'll always find they'll take something much more abstract far too seriously. There are some things, like you know, being a nice guy and other people being nice too, you absolutely should take seriously. And people will take changes to the thing they love seriously too. But the fans themselves? This is a crazy idea and never works.
People need to learn to understand other people, and read what they have to say, and not make certain people to be "not worth" your time. Instead of saying, Oh ho ho, Touhou fandom is such shit, I'm such a better fan, actually try and see why people are making some of this unbelievable garbage to begin with and reason WHAT these people are doing wrong and what they can do to make the fandom better; because otherwise I can guarantee you will become a problem many times in order worse. I posted a very nice explanation for some of this in the PC98 thread and I feel it was flat out ignored. I understand why people don't like "Gaiafag"ish behaviour. But they're just people acting silly and they won't grow up if you set a worse example for them; either they be a "friendly" weeaboo or a self righteous prick. Stop with the "us" and "them".
Don't forget, at the end of the day; you're all nerds.
Take it easy.
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Internet arguments are serious business.
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Internet arguments are serious business.
You probably missed the bit I added in just now -
Of course, NOT taking things seriously can cause problems too - another staple of the internet tough guy/"better fan" is to insist people should not care about certain things. But you'll always find they'll take something much more abstract far too seriously. There are some things, like you know, being a nice guy and other people being nice too, you absolutely should take seriously. And people will take changes to the thing they love seriously too. But the fans themselves? This is a crazy idea and never works.
And it is true. INTERNET: SERIOUS BUSINESS types always take something too seriously, just the wrong things entirely.
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I really can't say I see the same thing you do. Then again, I started becoming alittle more active in this community after coming from what has to be the most polarized fanbase I've ever seen in my life, and the Touhou fanbase isn't even near that from my point of view.
The only thing I can think of that might be near that area you mentioned is some YouTubers who RRRAAAAGGGEEEE!!! at people for asking "What is an anime is this?", but that's YouTube, a group of kids who excel at finding anything to complain about >.>;. Sounds like your fanbase is that combined with some 4channers who only believe what trolls and memes speak of.
I feel confident though that the only people that this place pushes out are those you mention, elitists who live for trying to separate and tier people and berate those of less skill or plays different modes.
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guys why can't we all just... take it easy
*writes frikkin novel about how the fandom should be*
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I kinda get what you're saying but I feel like you're just sprinkling dust in the wind. Such things are inevitable in any social circle and in the internet more than anything. The web brought about a whole new way of blind-relationships. When you log on you're no one. Asides from my sister, for instance, none of you know bloody shit about me. At most some might know what I study from reading some of my other posts but that's probably it. You don't my face, you don't know what I think, what I am like and that distance between people induces a lot of "fuck this shit". Because you don't know me and you know I don't know you you don't have to give a shit about what I think or about what I feel and respect becomes a more and more distant concept.
Then you take this environment with anonymity and without respect and throw in a bunch of over-exalted fans. It's inevitable. The circles quickly form in forums, boards, communities and there's a whole different kind of peer pressure. There's the always present need of establishing oneself as an individual or establishing a community as a "people". With the lack of personal boundaries these acts of self affirmation quickly turn to destruction and attack of everything that has not a direct influence in what your community represents, because having enemies is the quickest way you can set yourself apart from the rest of the world.
Of course that is a whole way of acting that is VERY VERY STUPID. But more and more I learn that people are amazingly stupid and the more people you have the more stupid they become. So the internet is populated almost exclusively by people that are complete retards on the large majority of their "cyber-lives" (and then every once in a while they'll play good boy and suck up to the people from whatever clan/community they want to belong to).
Regarding Touhou fandom I never hid it. I find the vast majority of it to be really stupid and I don't want anything to do with that. As Ark once pointed out I'm a traditionalist bastard and don't take well to... things. I am also a fan and, as such, am obviously unsatisfied with ZUN at points of his work but I believe that is proof that I like this cause otherwise I would look, say "yay" and not give a shit.
I think the answer to both things is self policing cause it's not like there's much you can do except not become a retarded yourself, and try to keep SOME measure of respect. Even I have kept inside tolerable boundaries in here despite shameless trolling every once in a while. So I guess there's not much you can do about your problems than holding on and taking it easy yourself u.u. Those people are likely retards anyway.
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(http://i28.tinypic.com/2znmrsm.jpg)
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<big mofo essay>
Don't forget, at the end of the day; you're all nerds.
Take it easy.
I don't consider myself as a nerd as I don't go 24/7 around with Touhou in my mind. I do consider myself as an addict. Addicts are not perse nerds.
Besides your essay, seriously. What are you trying to achieve anyway? I normally read such posts but the discussion of Touhou fandom is seriously becoming annoying.
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I really can't say I see the same thing you do. Then again, I started becoming alittle more active in this community after coming from what has to be the most polarized fanbase I've ever seen in my life, and the Touhou fanbase isn't even near that from my point of view.
The only thing I can think of that might be near that area you mentioned is some YouTubers who RRRAAAAGGGEEEE!!! at people for asking "What is an anime is this?", but that's YouTube, a group of kids who excel at finding anything to complain about >.>;. Sounds like your fanbase is that combined with some 4channers who only believe what trolls and memes speak of.
I feel confident though that the only people that this place pushes out are those you mention, elitists who live for trying to separate and tier people and berate those of less skill or plays different modes.
See, I'm not saying it's happening now.
I'm saying that it's going to happen in the near future.
It's like I'm identifying symptoms of HIV and warning you of the AIDs. I've just seen this happen a retarded amount of times now in just about every fandom.
Besides your essay, seriously. What are you trying to achieve anyway? I normally read such posts but the discussion of Touhou fandom is seriously becoming annoying.
Well really you don't have to read threads that are obviously about it. Another thing I dislike about internet culture is that apparently talking about a problem either makes it worse, or makes it exist if it doesn't, when the exact opposite is true in real life. Talking about "drama" is not necessarily the same as adding to it. If this was true half the world would be nuked by now.
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The Touhou Fandom has rapidly deteriorated to shit over the last few years, end of discussion.
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NEWS FLASH!!!
PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET ARGUE, BLOW SHIT OUT OF PROPORTION. STAY TUNED FOR MORE!
NEWS FLASH!!!
(http://i29.tinypic.com/j0a553.jpg)
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I really can't say I see the same thing you do. Then again, I started becoming alittle more active in this community after coming from what has to be the most polarized fanbase I've ever seen in my life, and the Touhou fanbase isn't even near that from my point of view.
The only thing I can think of that might be near that area you mentioned is some YouTubers who RRRAAAAGGGEEEE!!! at people for asking "What is an anime is this?", but that's YouTube, a group of kids who excel at finding anything to complain about >.>;. Sounds like your fanbase is that combined with some 4channers who only believe what trolls and memes speak of.
I feel confident though that the only people that this place pushes out are those you mention, elitists who live for trying to separate and tier people and berate those of less skill or plays different modes.
See, I'm not saying it's happening now.
I'm saying that it's going to happen in the near future.
It's like I'm identifying symptoms of HIV and warning you of the AIDs. I've just seen this happen a retarded amount of times now in just about every fandom.
Umm, my arguement was I'm not even seeing this "HIV" state you mention. Or is it this Canon vs Fanon thing you're referring to?
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It's really more a matter of recognizing that there are people who are faggots and people who are not faggots. You talk about the fanbase as if it's a single monolithic thing, but individual people should be able to not associate with those they don't like. And the suggestion that you can turn annoying idiots into people who are actually bearable by being friendly to them is pretty damn stupid.
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It's really more a matter of recognizing that there are people who are faggots and people who are not faggots. You talk about the fanbase as if it's a single monolithic thing, but individual people should be able to not associate with those they don't like. And the suggestion that you can turn annoying idiots into people who are actually bearable by being friendly to them is pretty damn stupid.
/thread
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I think the point he's trying to make is that:
-a lot of people(gamers, mostly) who know others who are really into anime, manga,etc. think that by just liking anime, they are into hentai/yaoi/yuri/ecchi/stupid shit. Therefore, they bash anyone they come into contact with that likes anime, without hearing any arguments.
-same goes for Touhou fans. From the outside, a lot of people see it as a bunch of nerdy people who like Yukkuris and super-deformed drawings of the characters, and that the whole series is actually like that.
And for that, I have to thank 2ch and 4chan.
Also: Your reference to kingdom hearts 2 fans is spot on. Damn Organization 13 and their wiles to make preteen girls dress up like them and hump each other(i have seen this happen). It's absolutely revolting. And it really kills a "normal" persons view on the anime culture as a whole.
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-same goes for Touhou fans. From the outside, a lot of people see it as a bunch of nerdy people who like Yukkuris and super-deformed drawings of the characters, and that the whole series is actually like that.
Sure, I think everyone knows this though. What's to be done? Ignore morons, educate the genuinely confused. Not much else you can do apart from this except for rage at your monitor.
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It's really more a matter of recognizing that there are people who are faggots and people who are not faggots. You talk about the fanbase as if it's a single monolithic thing, but individual people should be able to not associate with those they don't like. And the suggestion that you can turn annoying idiots into people who are actually bearable by being friendly to them is pretty damn stupid.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/VileLasagna/iamwithstupid.gif)
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Ok, so I'm reading this as either:
A. Vocal fans will tear the fanbase apart with elitism.
B. Fanbase will be destroyed by raids.
I've seen people try to be elitist before here, they get left in the cold. You're suggesting that we'll quit doing that. Why? Raids though, ever since the Habbo raids, it's become a fact of the internet. We'll deal with it. :)
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Do we take Touhou fandumb too seriously?
We shouldn't. But we do.
And...
The Touhou Fandom has rapidly deteriorated to shit over the last few years, end of discussion.
QFT
Although most of my rage comes form me not being able to tolerate stupid and seeing others just sit down and take what fandumb makes like it was crack (and thus become crack-heads).
Your effort to help bring Touhou's fandumb into a peaceful conformity is noble, and I respect that. But I'm afraid my faith in your efforts is dangerously low my friend. People will NOT change. They never have, they never will.
You tell them to stop shooting the Rhinos because they're dying out or some shit, and they go back and shoot it anyway. You warn them that the Earth's really fucked up and we need to save it, and look at that, people still litter and dump shit everywhere they want to. You let them know to stop having babies when they're fucking 16 (15 whatever), and would you believe they still spread legs and fuck like rabbits.
Respectively, Fans don't care if what they create is shit, nor will fans change their ways. It's because they're idiots and can't see what they're doing is shit. Worst of all, they don't want to listen to other folks who tell them what they're doing is shitty and that it's hopeless to support it.
I, for one, don't have the patience to deal with stupid, so I say to hell with them. They can go die in a fire for all I care. The best way for a fanbase to stay away from the shit we're dealing with is for it to never get popular in the first place, because once something gets popular, the retards start coming in and fucking shit up like the disease they are.
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It's really more a matter of recognizing that there are people who are faggots and people who are not faggots. You talk about the fanbase as if it's a single monolithic thing, but individual people should be able to not associate with those they don't like. And the suggestion that you can turn annoying idiots into people who are actually bearable by being friendly to them is pretty damn stupid.
This is just the "Us" and "Them" mentality I was talking about. I'm not saying you can solve the problem by being nice to them, I'm saying you're making it much worse by not doing so. When you act like a dick to them, they're going to take a look at themselves, take a look at you, and prefer to be the annoying weeaboos because frankly it's much better. You're not presenting them with a good alternative.
You can solve the problem by setting a good example. Don't like Touhou fan fiction? Write your own, or find someone you know is a good writer and get them into it. If the Touhou fandom isn't up to your expectations, take real measures to make it better instead of taking it out on people that have done nothing wrong.
I've seen people try to be elitist before here, they get left in the cold. You're suggesting that we'll quit doing that. Why? Raids though, ever since the Habbo raids, it's become a fact of the internet. We'll deal with it. :)
Really? Ever been to a Transformers board. Or a toy collector board. Anytime someone can be percieved as being too geeky, someone will be determined to prove they're not by acting like a huge asshole to anyone that is.
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This thread.
That is all.
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There's nothing wrong with this thread. There's nothing wrong with talking about problems or potential problems. People hold that talking about "drama" causes more "drama" when the exact opposite is true in real life, nothing ever gets resolved by ignoring it.
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(http://j.photos.cx/CGWnEX-0cd.gif)
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This thread.
That is all.
Same as losing THE GAME.
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I've seen people try to be elitist before here, they get left in the cold. You're suggesting that we'll quit doing that. Why? Raids though, ever since the Habbo raids, it's become a fact of the internet. We'll deal with it. :)
Really? Ever been to a Transformers board. Or a toy collector board. Anytime someone can be percieved as being too geeky, someone will be determined to prove they're not by acting like a huge asshole to anyone that is.
Umm... what? Because someone in some unrelated board gets trolled, we going to get trolled even though we discourage it and kick those who try to troll? The game I just quit has two groups of people that are in a civil war and are willing to do to lengths such as hacking others and trying to expose as much private information that they can get their hands on to insult and smear the other side with. By your suggestion, we're going to do the same by virtue that it was done somewhere else.
That's like saying my neighbor's house is deteriorating because they don't take care of it, so my house will deteriorate, too. Doesn't matter I try to take care of it.
Do you see what I'm trying to get at here?
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People argue over the internet because they don't have to deal with the other party in person. They just love to bash random people even if their argument is valid or not, but all they prove is that they are just all immature idiots who think they are cool. Even if people cosplay, like yaoi, or act weaboo, insulting them to no end can be the most immature thing ever. But this is the internet, logic and reason doesn't exist.
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TF2 fanbase ragging on the Wriggle on Yukari yuri when they draw Spy on Sniper Yaoi?
TF2 fans have no room to talk...
Great game btw.
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People argue over the internet because they don't have to deal with the other party in person. They just love to bash random people even if their argument is valid or not, but all they prove is that they are just all immature idiots who think they are cool. Even if people cosplay, like yaoi, or act weaboo, insulting them to no end can be the most immature thing ever. But this is the internet, logic and reason doesn't exist.
Sorry, but this point is pretty much moot. It really is.
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There's nothing wrong with this thread. There's nothing wrong with talking about problems or potential problems. People hold that talking about "drama" causes more "drama" when the exact opposite is true in real life, nothing ever gets resolved by ignoring it.
In some cases. In this case, there is and always has been one solution to this non-problem - ignore the idiots. They can't be reasoned with, they certainly can't be shouted down, either, because they thrive on it. The only thing you can really do is report them to a mod and/or ignore them. This is pretty basic stuff.
I'm sorry, but this seems like a pretty pointless thread overall. You've discovered there are idiots on the internet. Alright. Sorry you think the "fanbase" has the equivalent of HIV, but as was said earlier, the fanbase isn't some monolithic entity. And if you think that most Touhou fans are, in fact, idiots, well, no one's holding a gun to your head forcing you to associate with anyone online.
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In some cases. In this case, there is and always has been one solution to this non-problem - ignore the idiots.
Tries that, it just end in the idiots keep on trashing you when he have a chance. I don't mind them continue doing it, but it is my reputation and people's view of me being trashed, eventually everyone will believe I am a xxx or xxxxxxxxxxxx.
The only thing you can really do is report them to a mod and/or ignore them. This is pretty basic stuff.
When one are smart enough to minimize it to calling you stupid, retarded every 15 posts in a way(or other ways) that won't give the mod enough reason to stop him or when it is not in forum.
no one's holding a gun to your head forcing you to associate with anyone online.
Yea sure, let's give up something important to you since some jerk happen to associate or integrated into it.
Sorry, Ignore failed me, and I had gave up too much to give it up again.
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I don't take the fandom that seriously, since anyone who does that is pretty silly. It doesn't matter what you do or where you go, there will be people who have never played the games and think fanon is canon. However, what someone said back somewhere is true: It's stupid to treat the fanbase like one big unit. I used to think most fans were all the same, but I've learned that many are quite likable (hugs you all <3).
And if nothing else, at least it's not as bad as the Fire Emblem fanbase. *shudders*
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In some cases. In this case, there is and always has been one solution to this non-problem - ignore the idiots.
Tries that, it just end in the idiots keep on trashing you when he have a chance. I don't mind them continue doing it, but it is my reputation and people's view of me being trashed, eventually everyone will believe I am a xxx or xxxxxxxxxxxx.
The only thing you can really do is report them to a mod and/or ignore them. This is pretty basic stuff.
When one are smart enough to minimize it to calling you stupid, retarded every 15 posts in a way(or other ways) that won't give the mod enough reason to stop him or when it is not in forum.
no one's holding a gun to your head forcing you to associate with anyone online.
Yea sure, let's give up something important to you since some jerk happen to associate or integrated into it.
Sorry, Ignore failed me, and I had gave up too much to give it up again.
I don't really know what to tell you in terms of dealing with trolls apart from "report/ignore them". But I do want to clarify that I'm not suggesting if you're being trolled you should leave a forum. What I was responding to here was the judgement that Touhou fandom has HIV, has turned to shit, etc. If a person really feels this way, why stick around in it? If I went to my neighborhood bar and it slowly became an Applebee's or TGI Fridays, I could keep going, every weekend, and complain about how awful it is or I could ... find another bar. Freedom of choice is nice like that.
I admire your desire to want to keep things on a higher plane, and I like to think MoTK is devoid of the kind of inanity you'll find on some other Touhou-related forums. This is due in part to the userbase and also to active moderation. But don't make the mistake of seeing the fanbase as Borg. This here is a nicer corner of the fanbase. Don't let the cretins on some other forums spoil the whole thing for you.
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This thread.
That is all.
Same as losing THE GAME.
You bitch.
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I'm confused, I don't really see a whole lot of idiot fans, though I'm a new fan myself I admit. Are we talking about new fans that actually create doujins and remix music and art about Touhou or something? I wouldn't really know anything about that, I'm a fan of the games.
I don't really care for anime, though I admit that there are probably some out there that I would actually enjoy watching, probably more than some people in the world that label themselves anime fans. I simply have just chosen to not spend my free time trying out something new on watching anime rather than trying something new that I KNOW I'll enjoy (such as new games).
I'm a bit of a jaded soul here, but people are saying the internet is full of idiots, but I honestly don't really think it's any worse than humanity as a whole. Arguing on the internet really isn't any more stupid than arguing with someone that isn't directly related to you irl. But generally when I find myself arguing over the internet, my goal isn't meant to try and convince the other party that I'm right and they are wrong, but more so to point out that I'm right and they are wrong to 3rd parties that aren't really decided about the subject.
I suppose I'm rambling on randomly but really the op's post is a bit odd itself. Regardless of if you think someone is stupid or wrong or whatever though, I find alot of people have a very hard time maintaining any level of objectivity however. For example if someone you perceive to be an idiot says something, it's generally automatically assumed to be idiotic and wrong, regardless of what it says...Which in itself is dumb.
In the end however we are talking about fans over fictional entertainment. It's almost a matter of liking one color over another (speaking of which why do more people paint their cars 60s puke green, puke brown, puke orange, than something like purple? whyyy >=P ). Just enjoy the fact that there are more fans about something you appreciate, since it only supports the production levels of future products.
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It's really more a matter of recognizing that there are people who are faggots and people who are not faggots. You talk about the fanbase as if it's a single monolithic thing, but individual people should be able to not associate with those they don't like. And the suggestion that you can turn annoying idiots into people who are actually bearable by being friendly to them is pretty damn stupid.
This is just the "Us" and "Them" mentality I was talking about. I'm not saying you can solve the problem by being nice to them, I'm saying you're making it much worse by not doing so. When you act like a dick to them, they're going to take a look at themselves, take a look at you, and prefer to be the annoying weeaboos because frankly it's much better. You're not presenting them with a good alternative.
You can solve the problem by setting a good example. Don't like Touhou fan fiction? Write your own, or find someone you know is a good writer and get them into it. If the Touhou fandom isn't up to your expectations, take real measures to make it better instead of taking it out on people that have done nothing wrong.
You're kidding, right? I think you're the one taking Touhou too seriously. I'm saying I can both like Touhou and not associate with the Touhou fans who happen to be shitheads (I'm not mean to them or nice to them, I just ignore them.) You're saying I have to associate with these people because... why? "Fandom" is a retarded idea, honestly. I don't define myself by my enjoyment of Touhou and its related works any more than I do my enjoyment of baseball or drinking or listening to Chopin.
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CHOPIN SUX
LISZT 4 LYFE BISHES
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Note that I argue with people even if they're incredibly stupid/delusional/arrogant just because I'm insane like that.
Also note that even if the Touhou fandom isn't entirely monolithic, we have the right amount of people for us to have only a few different places where groups of similar tastes, attitudes and opinions gather together. Whether it be /jp/, Poosh, DStyle, Shrinemaiden, Walfas, [and other japanese communities that I do not visit], these groups are how people attribute the idea of the entire Touhou fandom being similar. People who aren't interested in a subject obviously won't spend huge amounts of time in a place where the subject is talked about, and also won't spend any extra time finding other places that have differing opinions from the rest of the fans. And as such we label. Just thinking in a microcosm for a second, check the "Unread Posts" link at the top of the page. You will check certain threads for new posts and some you won't, just because you aren't that interested. It works the same, except for the fact that you see the same people elsewhere and you get a feel for their personality anyways. It's just that when others see the side in Touhou fandom where there's just a shitload of porn and perverts (which there are, you can't deny), they look away and keep that judgment. And for a fandom whose fame comes from doujin works, it's obvious to see how people can't see anything but.
stuf
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Sounds like something a Chopin fan would say.
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I do like Chopin, but many of them are too scattered for my liking. I also like some of Liszt. Feux Follets hell yeah.
Speaking of which I'm currently practicing Suwa Foughten Field.
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At these kind of moments (such as this thread now) I thank god there is NO anime of Touhou and I hope it never ever happens.
Else we would have massive outbreak of threads.
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Also note that even if the Touhou fandom isn't entirely monolithic, we have the right amount of people for us to have only a few different places where groups of similar tastes, attitudes and opinions gather together. Whether it be /jp/, Poosh, DStyle, Shrinemaiden, Walfas, [and other japanese communities that I do not visit], these groups are how people attribute the idea of the entire Touhou fandom being similar.
Sure, but that doesn't mean people necessarily have the same or even similar attitudes or opinions on everything. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much petty rivalry between /jp/ and pooshlmer etc. But naturally people who aren't fans will see it that way whether or not it's true.
Sounds like something a Chopin fan would say.
Shut up you Liszt lover.
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Speaking of which I'm currently practicing Suwa Foughten Field.
The godess Kanako will be very pleased with your faith. Join Moriya!
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Also note that even if the Touhou fandom isn't entirely monolithic, we have the right amount of people for us to have only a few different places where groups of similar tastes, attitudes and opinions gather together. Whether it be /jp/, Poosh, DStyle, Shrinemaiden, Walfas, [and other japanese communities that I do not visit], these groups are how people attribute the idea of the entire Touhou fandom being similar.
Sure, but that doesn't mean people necessarily have the same or even similar attitudes or opinions on everything. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much petty rivalry between /jp/ and pooshlmer etc. But naturally people who aren't fans will see it that way whether or not it's true.
Sounds like something a Chopin fan would say.
I thought the rivalry was from /jp/ gettin trolled by some idiot using Touhou pictures more than different tastes. /b/ doesn't seem to mind Touhou so much, well the little of it that was posted there at the time. >.>; /a/ doesn't like Touhou neither, but I'm sure it's more from that troll than them not liking the series.
(Umm...why was my post sandwiched into that quote I made?)
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Also note that even if the Touhou fandom isn't entirely monolithic, we have the right amount of people for us to have only a few different places where groups of similar tastes, attitudes and opinions gather together. Whether it be /jp/, Poosh, DStyle, Shrinemaiden, Walfas, [and other japanese communities that I do not visit], these groups are how people attribute the idea of the entire Touhou fandom being similar.
Sure, but that doesn't mean people necessarily have the same or even similar attitudes or opinions on everything. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much petty rivalry between /jp/ and pooshlmer etc. But naturally people who aren't fans will see it that way whether or not it's true.
Well yeah. I meant it as the different groups have different opinions, which is why Poosh and /jp/ naturally don't get along (even though picking apart 4chan takes a hell of a lot more thought, whatever). The point was that other people who aren't involved with Touhou don't see the difference, or even check the different groups to begin with. In reality the span between the different groups is extraordinarily large (partly due to the lack of canon material).
but wait that's what you're saying too though
i hate it when people reiterate what you're saying in a quote it makes it feel like an argument
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I thought the rivalry was from /jp/ gettin trolled by some idiot using Touhou pictures more than different tastes. /b/ doesn't seem to mind Touhou so much, well the little of it that was posted there at the time. >.>; /a/ doesn't like Touhou neither, but I'm sure it's more from that troll than them not liking the series.
My understanding was that /jp/ is the split-off part of /a/ that likes Touhou and visual novels and stuff like that, so that makes sense. As for the rivalry thing, who knows. SERIOUS BUSINESS and all that.
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Also note that even if the Touhou fandom isn't entirely monolithic, we have the right amount of people for us to have only a few different places where groups of similar tastes, attitudes and opinions gather together. Whether it be /jp/, Poosh, DStyle, Shrinemaiden, Walfas, [and other japanese communities that I do not visit], these groups are how people attribute the idea of the entire Touhou fandom being similar.
Sure, but that doesn't mean people necessarily have the same or even similar attitudes or opinions on everything. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much petty rivalry between /jp/ and pooshlmer etc. But naturally people who aren't fans will see it that way whether or not it's true.
Well yeah. I meant it as the different groups have different opinions, which is why Poosh and /jp/ naturally don't get along (even though picking apart 4chan takes a hell of a lot more thought, whatever). The point was that other people who aren't involved with Touhou don't see the difference, or even check the different groups to begin with. In reality the span between the different groups is extraordinarily large (partly due to the lack of canon material).
but wait that's what you're saying too though
i hate it when people reiterate what you're saying in a quote it makes it feel like an argument
I see that now, sorry about that. I thought we were disagreeing at first.
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agh please don't make me psychoanalyze the relations between poosh and /jp/
i'm begging you
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It's probably a waste of time anyway, unless you like analyzing silly Internet fights
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You know who else liked to analyze fights?
That's right.
Adolf Hitler.
/godwined
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oh no i am a nazi
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oh no i am a nazi
Drake Xvs OMEGA JEWS
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oh no i am a nazi
There's a little Hitler in all of us.
Mine lives in my pancreas.
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I am not uu-, but with that flaw aside I'm pretty impressed with his contribution.
The Touhou Fandom has rapidly deteriorated to shit over the last few years, end of discussion.
I think I've read (and occasionally said) the same thing virtually everywhere I've gone on the Internet. *sheds single tear for everyone I've ever known, everywhere*
The very definition of Touhou fanon is that it shouldn't be taken seriously, and that doing so will only make you look goofy (see: Suika's density manipulation explained through real-world physics). The people who are in the Touhou community are having fun in whatever way floats their respective boats, and even if people think it's juvenile - sometimes it is! - let them have their fun. Beneath everything else, entertainment is the whole point, after all.
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Actually a lot of the time we only try explaining things that are impossible just because we know it's impossible to explain. Like you said, entertainment. Except I'm totally inverting what you're saying.
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In some cases. In this case, there is and always has been one solution to this non-problem - ignore the idiots. They can't be reasoned with, they certainly can't be shouted down, either, because they thrive on it. The only thing you can really do is report them to a mod and/or ignore them. This is pretty basic stuff.
I'm sorry, but this seems like a pretty pointless thread overall. You've discovered there are idiots on the internet. Alright. Sorry you think the "fanbase" has the equivalent of HIV, but as was said earlier, the fanbase isn't some monolithic entity. And if you think that most Touhou fans are, in fact, idiots, well, no one's holding a gun to your head forcing you to associate with anyone online.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/VileLasagna/iamwithstupid.gif)
Although I DO think that most Touhou fans are idiots. Always try to keep myself open for positive surprises but not really expecting them often.
Also @shinyjam:
[seriousmode]
Ignoring them is really the best option most of the time, if not roll with it. A troll's objective is to incite anger in the its potential victims. If the troll fails to do it he is very likely to seek more gullible targets and, if his actions were taken light-heartedly and in a "haha, lol" mood said troll might even move on to become a decent member of the community he once tried to troll.
[/seriousmode]
LOL PHAIL, NEWB!
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There's nothing wrong with this thread. There's nothing wrong with talking about problems or potential problems. People hold that talking about "drama" causes more "drama" when the exact opposite is true in real life, nothing ever gets resolved by ignoring it.
In some cases. In this case, there is and always has been one solution to this non-problem - ignore the idiots. They can't be reasoned with, they certainly can't be shouted down, either, because they thrive on it. The only thing you can really do is report them to a mod and/or ignore them. This is pretty basic stuff.
I'm sorry, but this seems like a pretty pointless thread overall. You've discovered there are idiots on the internet. Alright. Sorry you think the "fanbase" has the equivalent of HIV, but as was said earlier, the fanbase isn't some monolithic entity. And if you think that most Touhou fans are, in fact, idiots, well, no one's holding a gun to your head forcing you to associate with anyone online.
Modern "trolls" keep going regardless of whether you ignore them or not because they're so convinced they're getting an IRL reaction regardless. You know Chris-Chan didn't react to Encyclopedia Dramatica for about 8 months, but they kept at him until they drove him insane.
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It's really more a matter of recognizing that there are people who are faggots and people who are not faggots. You talk about the fanbase as if it's a single monolithic thing, but individual people should be able to not associate with those they don't like. And the suggestion that you can turn annoying idiots into people who are actually bearable by being friendly to them is pretty damn stupid.
This is just the "Us" and "Them" mentality I was talking about. I'm not saying you can solve the problem by being nice to them, I'm saying you're making it much worse by not doing so. When you act like a dick to them, they're going to take a look at themselves, take a look at you, and prefer to be the annoying weeaboos because frankly it's much better. You're not presenting them with a good alternative.
You can solve the problem by setting a good example. Don't like Touhou fan fiction? Write your own, or find someone you know is a good writer and get them into it. If the Touhou fandom isn't up to your expectations, take real measures to make it better instead of taking it out on people that have done nothing wrong.
You're kidding, right? I think you're the one taking Touhou too seriously. I'm saying I can both like Touhou and not associate with the Touhou fans who happen to be shitheads (I'm not mean to them or nice to them, I just ignore them.) You're saying I have to associate with these people because... why? "Fandom" is a retarded idea, honestly. I don't define myself by my enjoyment of Touhou and its related works any more than I do my enjoyment of baseball or drinking or listening to Chopin.
It's not whether or not you actively associate them, it's your caustic attitude towards them that doesn't help.
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Modern "trolls" keep going regardless of whether you ignore them or not because they're so convinced they're getting an IRL reaction regardless. You know Chris-Chan didn't react to Encyclopedia Dramatica for about 8 months, but they kept at him until they drove him insane.
Very wrong. I remember quite well seeing the original thread in /v/ when they first started trolling him. It started with a person in 4chan's /v/ talking with him, I don't remember the specifics, but his reaction towards learning about the thread was what helped spark them to continue. They wrote an ED article and he created an account to try and modify said page. They fed off of that and continued. and et cetra. That 8 months that he didn't mess with ED, him and the trolls were going at it at other places, action and reaction.
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It's not whether or not you actively associate with them, it's your witty attitude towards them that doesn't help.
That doesn't help what, exactly?
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You know Chris-Chan didn't react to Encyclopedia Dramatica for about 8 months, but they kept at him until they drove him insane.
I haven't clicked on ED since 2006, so I'll take your word for it. Still, I think there's wisdom in what VileLasagna said about laughing off troll abuse. Sometimes the troll ends up being decent, sometimes they just move on. It sucks when you're singled out for special treatment from one of them, definitely, and if the moderators aren't doing their job at whatever forum this happening then I don't know what to tell you, really. I have, though, walked away from one or two forums that I felt had deteriorated into pits of fail, and found that - surprise! - the internet is a pretty big place and you can find better homes out there.
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I think this thread is a lot worse than anything the rest of the fanbase has ever done.
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the effect has pretty much turned into the cause by now
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I think this thread is a lot worse than anything the rest of the fanbase has ever done.
the effect has pretty much turned into the cause by now
Yes and yes.
There's a special board for this thread, and it rhymes with "cash brap".
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the effect has pretty much turned into the cause by now
an ever-vomiting ouroboros of :words: and stupid
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the effect has pretty much turned into the cause by now
an ever-vomiting ouroboros of :words: and stupid
....kinda off topic but I recognize your name and I was like wtf have I seen that name. Then it hit me that you were always posting pictures of dizzy on the seiken densetsu 3 forums on gamefaqs or something.. I think. Or at least the person who I THINK is you did. I'm curious am I correct? >=P.
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Geeze, I've never seen a forum thread grow or die so quickly. Is this common here?
I feel so long as something isn't harmful to others, anybody should have the freedom to like or do whatever they want without needing to meet abnormal expectations. Unsavory people have nothing to do with fandom, it's too loose of an association. Being a fan does not make you automatically a part of any community, so expectations should be low if any. No harm, no foul basically.
That being said, I'm fairly certain that having certain expectancies of people in general is fairly common in all social structures. Flaming, trolling and spam are more or less universally despised within all web communities. I can also certainly see how people wouldn't want to wade through mountains of morons and garbage just to get to a handful of people and things if anything. It'd be very annoying. What constitutes tastefulness can very subjective thing though varying from individual to individual, so it's a bit hard to say what's what exactly.
As far as the subject of blame assignment goes, I feel that minor transgressions and nonissues should be forgiven. However by no means does simply not intending harm mean none has been caused. I believe people are responsible for their carelessness regardless of intent. If they weren't, ignorance of rules and regulations would be just cause to ignore them and accidents.
In the end it all boils down to what can reasonably expected of people. It's all very touchy and depends upon the exact social structure and circumstance. To simplify manners however, if people lack tactfulness and civility then they can certainly expect to be rejected by others, fandom or not.
Stereotypes are fun for a little playful teasing, but by no means should one seriously judge an individual for their fandom. The fact of the matter is that judging people based upon generalities discounts individuality and free will, which quite simply isn't cool.
As far as manners of likes and dislikes go however, it's more or less simply personal. I'm sure we've all enjoyed some things and griped about others. This isn't a manner of taking things too seriously as it is a manner of preference. If something is disliked by somebody, they naturally think it's stupid. Sometimes this can be applied to what does and doesn't constitute artistic greatness which consequently brings into question the judgment of others. I'm a bit guilty of this myself, though to be fair, I think most people are this way to degrees. Do you and another person like the same song? Why not check out their album collection and see if there's something else you like. If you think somebody is poorly dressed, would you take fashion advice from them? Sometimes as taste can be a manner of judgment, behind their backs, I've personally thought "Anybody who likes X is stupid because X is stupid" in general terms. On the other hand, I've never actually judged any particular individual on it, at least not seriously. It's just unaimed general griping, nothing serious.
Anyway, if the thread should die, my vote isn't to trash gap it but to throw it in Cirno's Perfect Math Class. It'd be an ironically fitting demise for a thread about the evils of being too serious, that had become too serious itself, to be thrown to the lions of playful silliness to be cannibalized. Don't you think? I think so anyway. I'd personally like to see what happens. ^_^⑨ = Thumbs Down.
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Flaming, trolling and spam are more or less universally despised within all web communities.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Geeze, I've never seen a forum thread grow or die so quickly. Is this common here?
Not on this board anyway, despite my best efforts to derail this thread into a classical pianist flame war. I even threw in a Godwin. Nothing short of locking it up seemed capable of ending this ... what was the point of this anyway? "People on the internet are mean to me"? Or "the Touhou fandom has but one face and it is a stupid, stupid face"?
Buncha Chopin-lovin' Hitlers.
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Flaming, trolling and spam are more or less universally despised within all web communities.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
You're not thinking about web communities; you're thinking about abominations. :P
Geeze, I've never seen a forum thread grow or die so quickly. Is this common here?
Not on this board anyway, despite my best efforts to derail this thread into a classical pianist flame war. I even threw in a Godwin. Nothing short of locking it up seemed capable of ending this ... what was the point of this anyway? "People on the internet are mean to me"? Or "the Touhou fandom has but one face and it is a stupid, stupid face"?
Buncha Chopin-lovin' Hitlers.
Ah, thanks for answering, it's quite appreciated. As for the main topic, I believe the lowest common denominator is "Elitists suck." It's kinda hard to tell as the original post seemed to shift gear about halfway through though.
Also, parts of the original post, especially the opening line seem to reference the Touhou is NOT an Anime (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1080.0) topic. That might just be me reading too deeply into it though, as I spent perhaps a little too much time in that thread... So, uh, yeah... Take that as you will...
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If someone trolls the heck out of you for liking Touhou and cites a bad point about the series' fandom, just cite a good one and then ignore them if they don't take the hint that 'while 90% of everything is crap, there's 10% worth dying for', then just ignore them.
And if you can't ignore them, then do what the masters do and just act politely towards them -- eventually, they'll either tire, die out, give up, or end up looking like an idiot or jackass themselves.
It's simple zen logic.
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You know who else liked Touhou? HITLER. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNaMlqaXw3Q&feature=channel_page)
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You know who else liked Touhou? HITLER. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNaMlqaXw3Q&feature=channel_page)
That was.....so epic....
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You know who else liked Touhou? HITLER. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNaMlqaXw3Q&feature=channel_page)
As many of these Downfall parodies as I've seen, I still laughed heartily at "No, mein Fuhrer, Sanae is a good girl!"
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You know who else liked Touhou? HITLER. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNaMlqaXw3Q&feature=channel_page)
Thread win - Case closed.
( OH god, I never laughed so hard lately , brilliant )
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You know who else liked Touhou? HITLER. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNaMlqaXw3Q&feature=channel_page)
Ah, I never laughed so hard.
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(feel free to rage about this)
touhou is not a anime. people may say its LIKE an anime game becuse of the way the girls are drawn. well thats how i wold think of it =/.
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It is the way IOSYS etc draws them. Not ZUN. If you would show people mere picture of ingame portraits of one of the girls, I am sure anime is NOT the first thing to pop in their minds.
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It might be the second thing to pop into their minds. Because, you know. (ry
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Way too much stuff in here to read. I read the first post and some.
I'm always puzzled how people manage to bring up all these HUGE arguments and crap from just minor points or basically nothing at all.
The following statements are pretty much facts:
-------------------------------------------------
1. Just about < 95% of Youtube comments and/or users are down right stupid and/or made of flaming/trolling/hate/etc.
2. FFS Any kind of fandom, be it Final Fantasy or Touhou or whatever is meant to be fun. And there is no reason to start a war over minor points such as if a character's personality isn't the same as in a doujin. Come on we all know it's just stupid to argue about. Some people like the fanmade personalities and some don't, so just drop it.
3. If things about Touhou were so batshit serious, ZUN would probably not let anyone produce their doujin pieces. By only mentioning him in the credits.
4. One of the major arguments always seem to come up about the "What anime is this" thing. Instead of just bashing people to bits, is it so damn hard to just explain that the anime is unofficial and that it's a shooter game? That would just end the discussion at that time, instead of starting an ongoing flamewar.
5. Purists should calm down, (see point 2). Because there is no reason to flame people about stuff just because it doesn't follow the Original storyline and/or character personalities or whatever. If the original is your preference and you don't like unofficial things, then fine. Stick with it, but you don't have to mash it in everyones face just to make a point.
I could probably make this list longer than a freaking bible, but people should get it by now anyway.
It can pretty much be summed up with:
Stop bashing crap for no good reasons. If someone asks what "anime" it is, just explain instead of hitting RRRAGE mode, and just take it easy.
Geez people always overreact so much.
And now I'll be away from the computer for a while.
If this post don't make you go RAGE mode or start a flamewar, give yourself a pat on the back for having become a better person. =)
I will be back later.
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Oh look, another Chopintard chimes in.
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Also: how did this thread suddenly become the "what anime is this" thread?
I so confuse!
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Also: how did this thread suddenly become the "what anime is this" thread?
I so confuse!
Good ol' Getting-Off-Topic-Ability of the Maidens of the Kaleidoscope.
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Modern "trolls" keep going regardless of whether you ignore them or not because they're so convinced they're getting an IRL reaction regardless. You know Chris-Chan didn't react to Encyclopedia Dramatica for about 8 months, but they kept at him until they drove him insane.
Very wrong. I remember quite well seeing the original thread in /v/ when they first started trolling him. It started with a person in 4chan's /v/ talking with him, I don't remember the specifics, but his reaction towards learning about the thread was what helped spark them to continue. They wrote an ED article and he created an account to try and modify said page. They fed off of that and continued. and et cetra. That 8 months that he didn't mess with ED, him and the trolls were going at it at other places, action and reaction.
Chris Chan at least had enough sense to stay the hell away from ED itself for the longest time. The people on /v/ and the ones on ED weren't necessarily the same. /v/ treated him as a folly whereas ED had a much more sadistic viewpoint.
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Please post all "touhou is not anime" complaint in Touhou is not anime (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=1080.0) topic, we don't need another one and is best to not add any unnecessary fuel to this topic...America needs all the fuel it can gets... :V
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I think this thread is a lot worse than anything the rest of the fanbase has ever done.
the effect has pretty much turned into the cause by now
I think this thread is a lot worse than anything the rest of the fanbase has ever done.
the effect has pretty much turned into the cause by now
Yes and yes.
There's a special board for this thread, and it rhymes with "cash brap".
Honestly it's replies like this that make threads "shit" to begin with. My basic point was that it's heavily in how you react to it, and if you act like even talking about something being horrible is horrible in of itself. These kind of replies are exactly the sort the 2F2F thread got initially.
These replies reek of the "Better nerd" crap I was talking about. There's nothing wrong with my posts in this thread. You can agree or disagree. But making patronising comments like this that don't really say anything are the only truly objectional content in this thread. The insistance that even talking about problems called problems has zero foundation in reality but is very popular online because it's easier than sitting down trying to understand anything.
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We're saying that you're taking people taking the Touhou fanbase too seriously too seriously.
Everything that needs to be said has been said, and now you're just kind of trying to make fire out of ashes. We know this and we've figured that this thread is only going to get worse as more is being put into it.
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We're saying that you're taking people taking the Touhou fanbase too seriously too seriously.
But I gave a reason why that's something that should be taken seriously. I made it clear I don't think nothing should be taken seriously. What I'm talking about is getting too upset over doujin stuff and having this idea of "inferior fans". This attitude in of itself, I think is something people need to be serious about, because any community I've seen that's been "Laid back" about people acting like this falls apart. It's elitism, and elitism only grows while ignored. It doesn't really have to either, it doesn't happen to everyone fandom or community, just near on most.
I'm really upset with some of the replies. I only meant well by the post and if it was too much drama for you, you didn't have to reply. I wish people would realise it's the snide, one line replies that make things crappy. People seem to presume that because a post is long, it must be nonsense. Which is nonsense. I'd prefer to hang out with the "fanon" types even though I've made fun of them, cringed at some of the WAIFU type threads here, and laughed at some jokes directed at them, if they're at least nice.
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if you act like even talking about something being horrible is horrible in of itself.
nothing bad can ever come of talking about praaaaaawblems, that's why I always make a point of telling my friends I don't think they pay enough attention to me, or that such and such's girlfriend is really driving us apart
nope, no self-fulfilling prophecies here, nosirree
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if you act like even talking about something being horrible is horrible in of itself.
nothing bad can ever come of talking about praaaaaawblems, that's why I always make a point of telling my friends I don't think they pay enough attention to me, or that such and such's girlfriend is really driving us apart
nope, no self-fulfilling prophecies here, nosirree
This is an example of a "wrong" reply.
Actually, it is good to discuss problems. You're just using poor social standards and poor examples to back up your case. This is how adults actually do things believe it or not. I think people are starting to become massive dicks for no good reasons. I explained why. This is a good way of doing things. Yours is not.
If you genuinely don't feel like you're getting enough attention, then yes you should bring that up. Or if someone's girlfriend is driving you apart, then there are times when you should bring that up. It's a kind of cost/benefit analysis. If it's going to cause more harm than good, then it might be a bad idea.
But threads like this don't need to drive people apart like "Oh your girlfriend is causing troubles for us...". So the point isn't really relevant at all.
You can't solve any problem if you don't talk about it, and reach some kind of solution or consensus. Sometimes with problems all you have to do IS talk about it, if people are people dicks, then sometimes someone just needs to point out it. But then people get arrogant and defensive and say how much it doesn't matter, that it's DRAMA, etc., these are defense mechanisms.
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Seriously Rosie Rune, you are taking Touhou fanbase who take it too seriously who take it too serious WAY too serious. You are making it sound like a frikken crusade now. What the hell.
And discussions are useful when solutions flow out of them, in this case there is none of use and oh yea: NEWS FLASH: You cannot fix over thousands of corrupted/badly informed brains. Unless you are a world leader. NEWS FLASH 2: You are not.
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Seriously Rosie Rune, you are taking Touhou fanbase who take it too seriously who take it too serious WAY too serious. You are making it sound like a frikken crusade now. What the hell.
And discussions are useful when solutions flow out of them, in this case there is none of use and oh yea: NEWS FLASH: You cannot fix over thousands of corrupted/badly informed brains. Unless you are a world leader. NEWS FLASH 2: You are not.
But here's the thing, many of the people are that are exactly what I'm talking about are saying this. So if they can recognise the problem, then yes they can change their mindset.
And actually, you can fix over thousands of corrupted/badly informed brains just as one random guy can lead to those brains becoming corrupted/badly informed. Memetics goes both ways. If some cool guy here reads this thread and decides to being an ass to the doujin writer fan types, then people will jump on that bandwagon like wildfire. There are actually tons of positive social trends, you just don't notice them.
However if said Cool Guy comes in and sees everyone saying Shut the Fuck Up to this thread, it's not going to have that effect.
Heck the entire Doujin circle exists as a social contract which we'd view as impossible in the west. There's no real impossible in terms of "changing minds" except what you make up your mind is possible/impossible.
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But I gave a reason why that's something that should be taken seriously. I made it clear I don't think nothing should be taken seriously.
Yes. Alright. But I don't think you've been reading our replies very well if you're still talking about the same damn subject you have been for the past three pages.
What I'm talking about is getting too upset over doujin stuff and having this idea of "inferior fans". This attitude in of itself, I think is something people need to be serious about, because any community I've seen that's been "Laid back" about people acting like this falls apart.
No. This is false. Just because a community is laid-back about arrogant attitudes doesn't mean it will fall to shit. It can, but it can also fall to shit if you're doing what you're doing right now and taking everything in like it's your life's mission to resolve everyone's problems.
It's elitism, and elitism only grows while ignored. It doesn't really have to either, it doesn't happen to everyone fandom or community, just near on most.
Spoilers: Touhou has had an elitist fanbase for a long time. This is why we're all separated into those groups I talked about. Because there's so many interpretations, this is going to happen. There's no avoiding it.
I'm really upset with some of the replies. I only meant well by the post and if it was too much drama for you, you didn't have to reply.
I hate attitudes like this. "You don't have to reply if you don't like it lol". You're being a hypocrite right now, talking about how we need to take this seriously yet are fine with people ignoring you for being too laid-back about it. I for one am damn pleased with the responses from this thread and I don't think it could have gotten much better than what he got. Unfortunately, your consistent arguing is making it an annoyance.
I wish people would realise it's the snide, one line replies that make things crappy. People seem to presume that because a post is long, it must be nonsense. Which is nonsense.
You're nonsense. Yeah, you see what I did there? A one-liner. I don't think anyone presumes that because a post is long it's nonsense. In fact, most long posts are anything but and everybody realizes it. It's just a pain to read when you say the same thing over and over again that could be condensed into something shorter. Yeah, a big paragraph can contain more information than a short one, but just because it can, doesn't mean it does. A short post can be nonsense, and long posts can be nonsense.
I'd prefer to hang out with the "fanon" types even though I've made fun of them, cringed at some of the WAIFU type threads here, and laughed at some jokes directed at them, if they're at least nice.
Good for you. Once again, you're treating the sections of people as an entire entity rather than individuals. You yourself have your likes, and other people have theirs. Just because two people like the same thing doesn't mean they have much in common at all. It also doesn't necessarily mean that they're "nice". I actually like a few of Walfas' comics, but it doesn't mean that I like the rest of them, or him as a person, or any of his fans. I hate most of his fans to pieces. "Nice" people can be found anywhere, but just because they're part of a group doesn't mean they're "nice" people or "mean" people.
This is an example of a "wrong" reply.
No, it's an example of you don't want to see in your thread. He's right; talking about problems can definitely lead into more disastrous situations than if you left it alone.
Actually, it is good to discuss problems. You're just using poor social standards and poor examples to back up your case. This is how adults actually do things believe it or not. I think people are starting to become massive dicks for no good reasons. I explained why. This is a good way of doing things. Yours is not.
Jesus Christ now you're just telling him he's immature because you don't think the way he does. This is not how adults do things. This is how some people do things. Some adults do, some "non-adults" do, you do, hell, I do. Socials standards are poor. People suck. Not everyone's going to have the same attitude, which is what you're trying to say in the first place.
If you genuinely don't feel like you're getting enough attention, then yes you should bring that up. Or if someone's girlfriend is driving you apart, then there are times when you should bring that up. It's a kind of cost/benefit analysis. If it's going to cause more harm than good, then it might be a bad idea.
So in other words you're half-contradicting your previous statement and saying that "ok maybe sometimes it's a bad thing so you're kind of right".
But threads like this don't need to drive people apart like "Oh your girlfriend is causing troubles for us...". So the point isn't really relevant at all.
No, it isn't, but he was using the example to counter your argument, of which you entirely avoided and instead just labeled it "wrong".
You can't solve any problem if you don't talk about it, and reach some kind of solution or consensus. Sometimes with problems all you have to do IS talk about it, if people are people dicks, then sometimes someone just needs to point out it. But then people get arrogant and defensive and say how much it doesn't matter, that it's DRAMA, etc., these are defense mechanisms.
They're as much of a defense mechanism as you're putting up to our statements. People don't like to be wrong. If you try to prove them wrong, they'll argue. Yes, in some cases, problems are solved by actions. Problems can also solve themselves if ignored and there are just problems that don't need solving.
I'm not even going to bother with the last one, it's full of holes.
I don't think you realize that your attitude towards this is making people dislike you. If not anyone else, at least me. Yes, you think that this is a serious problem. Many of us think it's a serious problem. But it happens, and no one cares enough to do anything about it. For the love of god, shut up already.
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Seriously Rosie Rune, you are taking Touhou fanbase who take it too seriously who take it too serious WAY too serious. You are making it sound like a frikken crusade now. What the hell.
And discussions are useful when solutions flow out of them, in this case there is none of use and oh yea: NEWS FLASH: You cannot fix over thousands of corrupted/badly informed brains. Unless you are a world leader. NEWS FLASH 2: You are not.
But here's the thing, many of the people are that are exactly what I'm talking about are saying this. So if they can recognise the problem, then yes they can change their mindset.
And actually, you can fix over thousands of corrupted/badly informed brains just as one random guy can lead to those brains becoming corrupted/badly informed. Memetics goes both ways. If some cool guy here reads this thread and decides to being an ass to the doujin writer fan types, then people will jump on that bandwagon like wildfire. There are actually tons of positive social trends, you just don't notice them.
However if said Cool Guy comes in and sees everyone saying Shut the Fuck Up to this thread, it's not going to have that effect.
Heck the entire Doujin circle exists as a social contract which we'd view as impossible in the west. There's no real impossible in terms of "changing minds" except what you make up your mind is possible/impossible.
Let's just face this. It's a lost cause. Just seeing how people started bitching after my last post truly shows it.
I was merely stating that all fanbases worldwide are pretty much taking things too far/serious, and yet people just accuse me of being offtopic when this is pretty much the entire problem.
It will most likely be a very long time before people realise how things really are. If they ever do.
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Rosie Rune you are like those three apes: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. You "bla bla" alot but do not accept the facts given tons of times.
And you didn't get the point. Stop posting please, you are only making more fun of yourself. The percentage of me taking you serious is 0.00000000000.
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No. This is false. Just because a community is laid-back about arrogant attitudes doesn't mean it will fall to shit. It can, but it can also fall to shit if you're doing what you're doing right now and taking everything in like it's your life's mission to resolve everyone's problems.
This is ludicrous. All I'm doing is pointing out the problems. When has this led to a community falling apart?
Spoilers: Touhou has had an elitist fanbase for a long time. This is why we're all separated into those groups I talked about. Because there's so many interpretations, this is going to happen. There's no avoiding it.
Groups of fans doesn't mean "elitism". In any fandom people are going to flock towards certain views or aspects of their material they focus on. The elitism occurs when one declares itself BETTER than another for poor reasons.
I hate attitudes like this. "You don't have to reply if you don't like it lol". You're being a hypocrite right now, talking about how we need to take this seriously yet are fine with people ignoring you for being too laid-back about it. I for one am damn pleased with the responses from this thread and I don't think it could have gotten much better than what he got. Unfortunately, your consistent arguing is making it an annoyance.
What exactly do you hope these replies achieve? I don't think you're thinking this true. Shooting someone down for taking a stance against elitism sets a horrible precedent.
It's just a pain to read when you say the same thing over and over again that could be condensed into something shorter. Yeah, a big paragraph can contain more information than a short one, but just because it can, doesn't mean it does.
That's not really fair as I'm not able to make short posts. It's an obsessive compulsive thing.
No, it's an example of you don't want to see in your thread. He's right; talking about problems can definitely lead into more disastrous situations than if you left it alone.
How does that occur here? It can only possibly occur if people decide that's what to happen. It's all in how people react.
Honestly, can you imagine a community where when people point out potential problems, they actually sit down and take interest,
or just ignore it? That's a better community.
The replies you seem to think are marvellous are just a defense mechanism.
Jesus Christ now you're just telling him he's immature because you don't think the way he does.
I told him his example was crap because it is crap. He didn't actually provide any reasoning as to how that applies in this situation. There's no "Personal awkwardness" involved here.
No, it isn't, but he was using the example to counter your argument, of which you entirely avoided and instead just labeled it "wrong".
No, I pointed out how it doesn't apply. Also examples don't "counter" arguments. Simply saying that there are some times when talking about problems may be awkward does not prove this one is. Generally, yes you should. It's being anal.
He has a point if he can prove how talking about people being elitists can make the problem worse. So far, nobody has provided any reasoning or evidence to back that up.
I don't think you realize that your attitude towards this is making people dislike you. If not anyone else, at least me. Yes, you think that this is a serious problem. Many of us think it's a serious problem. But it happens, and no one cares enough to do anything about it. For the love of god, shut up already.
Then that's part of the problem. If you want me to shut up so much, then just don't read the thread. It will have precisely the same effect for you.
Rosie Rune you are like those three apes: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. You "bla bla" alot but do not accept the facts given tons of times.
What "facts" were given exactly?
And you didn't get the point. Stop posting please, you are only making more fun of yourself. The percentage of me taking you serious is 0.00000000000.
It seems to me you're closer to the hear no evil, see no evil idea. You think if you plug your ears and everyone ignores the fact that there are assholes, it will somehow lead to less "evil" than the alternative I'm presenting.
These posts really don't help. When you make someone feel like shit for the posts they make about something they see as a serious problem, there's no turning back. But it's impossible to reason with you. I just wish you could read your posts from the outside.
The thing is, that the replies to this thread prove that I was more right than I thought.
People are "hating" me just for pointing things like this out, and a groupthink mentality is starting to form. There's no reason to hate me over this. I don't particularly "hate" anyone in this thread.
It's precisely the "Better fan" mentality I'm talking about. A BETTER fan doesn't worry about shit like elitism! That's not really a fair context for how someone is a "better" fan.
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and everyone ignores the fact that there are assholes, it will somehow lead to less "evil" than the alternative I'm presenting.
Oh my god do you even read your own words?
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Has it ever occurred to you that people might be blowing you off with snide bon mots not because you dare to stand up against the elitist superstructure, but because you are being so obtuse, incoherent and needlessly verbose as to put Timecube to shame?
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ITT Rosie Rune goes from Serious Business to silly drama whore
I almost feel like I should hand over my premium troll hat, but I'm still not entirely convinced that this is for the lulz instead of true baaawwww'ing
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Honestly it's replies like this that make threads "shit" to begin with. ... These replies reek of the "Better nerd" crap I was talking about. There's nothing wrong with my posts in this thread. You can agree or disagree. But making patronising comments like this that don't really say anything are the only truly objectional content in this thread. The insistance that even talking about problems called problems has zero foundation in reality but is very popular online because it's easier than sitting down trying to understand anything.
No, what made this thread crap was posting a 500-word complaint about ... what? People are mean on the internet? You're unhappy with some of the fanbase? Welcome to the Internets. Yeah, jerks on the webs are "problems". We deal with it in a variety of ways - active moderation, mockery, yawning in the direction of trolls and so forth. We all know this.
So some people had some lighthearted fun with the topic. Lighten up already, sheesh. You're not going to "fix" the internet. Move on and enjoy yourself.
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and everyone ignores the fact that there are assholes, it will somehow lead to less "evil" than the alternative I'm presenting.
Oh my god do you even read your own words?
Take your own suggestion maybe.
Rosie Rune you are like those three apes: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. You "bla bla" alot but do not accept the facts given tons of times.
And you didn't get the point. Stop posting please, you are only making more fun of yourself. The percentage of me taking you serious is 0.00000000000.
This is not an example of a worthwhile post.
I don't see the point in continuing this thread, but for different reasons to everyone else here. I think the cancer's already set in. Maybe the guy warning me about Shrinemaiden didn't mean the doujin fans, but this...
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Here's a word of advice:
When starting a thread railing against elitism, try and avoid passing judgment calls like "this isn't a worthwhile post" or "this is a wrong reply".
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Oh my god do you even read your own words?
Take your own suggestion maybe.
We all know this.
-Hele
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Man, I'm feeling lonely now. How do I not get ignored? Both serious discussion and provocative truths disguised as trolling seemed to have hit adblock.
:(
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Here's a word of advice:
When starting a thread railing against elitism, try and avoid passing judgment calls like "this isn't a worthwhile post" or "this is a wrong reply".
No, see, I'm all for having standards. The thing is I don't think "negative" standards should be applied to people just because they're vaguely annoying. I think "negative" standards should be applied to people who get the kind of cocky attitudes in this thread.
I mean people didn't have to react that way. If I was saying something inappropriate, then people could have reacted to that better. At best there's two sides to this. It's this kind of mentality that there's more of us, we don't have to admit to being wrong, that makes the whole thing impossible.
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Man, I'm feeling lonely now. How do I not get ignored? Both serious discussion and provocative truths disguised as trolling seemed to have hit adblock.
:(
Oh hey man what's up.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/oh1g79.png)
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(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/VileLasagna/ramboflower.jpg)
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I have been utterly defeated. I am now going to post pictures.
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6871/5021799.png)
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Modern "trolls" keep going regardless of whether you ignore them or not because they're so convinced they're getting an IRL reaction regardless. You know Chris-Chan didn't react to Encyclopedia Dramatica for about 8 months, but they kept at him until they drove him insane.
Very wrong. I remember quite well seeing the original thread in /v/ when they first started trolling him. It started with a person in 4chan's /v/ talking with him, I don't remember the specifics, but his reaction towards learning about the thread was what helped spark them to continue. They wrote an ED article and he created an account to try and modify said page. They fed off of that and continued. and et cetra. That 8 months that he didn't mess with ED, him and the trolls were going at it at other places, action and reaction.
Chris Chan at least had enough sense to stay the hell away from ED itself for the longest time. The people on /v/ and the ones on ED weren't necessarily the same. /v/ treated him as a folly whereas ED had a much more sadistic viewpoint.
o.0; Chris Chan tried editing his own ED not even a week or so after the events of /v/ and the formation of the Ed page... and wound up giving the trolls some AAA grade material. That ED page doesn't really display everything that happened well, don't take it's timeline seriously.
And this thread is making my head hurt. Between you using a double standard to look at the same troll group as different people and different fans being the same to grading the content of people's posts, I'm having a hard time buying this isn't just old-school trolling in action.
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I have been utterly defeated. I am now going to post pictures.
Not yet, give me a sec.....
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/VileLasagna/sailorwing.jpg)
There. NOW you've been defeated XD
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(http://j.photos.cx/europe-map-80b.jpg)
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Oh it's gonna be that kinda party is it? Alright then.
(http://i28.tinypic.com/30bcr9v.jpg)
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The placement of that ship in relation to the blue man's groin is impeccable.
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The placement of that ship in relation to the blue man's groin is impeccable.
That's Desslar Sohtoh ... and I never even noticed the placement of Yamato before just now. I'd always been too busy looking at Yuki Mori (just to the left of the ship), my first childhood crush.
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You know who else liked Touhou? HITLER. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNaMlqaXw3Q&feature=channel_page)
I returned to this thread to post something but then I saw this and forgot everything else. Ever.
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Well I guess things been calmed down, so is appropriate to post this.
(http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/w/why_so_serious_cat-12947.jpg)
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(http://users.fulladsl.be/spb11947/personal/figs/cartoons/mito.jpg)
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Was this a Canadian thing Drake? Because the only other person I knew who watched Space Pirate Mito was Canadian. She was also a fan of this:
(http://i25.tinypic.com/qrnmfa.jpg)
I watched the entire CD boxset with her and it was ... pretty girly. Had a great opening theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d81pYiS4ec8), too.
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Space Pirate Captain Harlock != Space Pirate Mito
Harlock is much more badass.
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SUDDENLY, TVTROPES!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Touhou
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MemeticMutation
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Narm
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/CrowningMomentOfAwesomefrom=Main.CrowningMomentOfAwesome
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.CaptainHarlock
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Troll
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Troll2
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GirlsLove
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GundamWing
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SailorMoon
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/CrowningMusicOfAwesome?from=Main.CrowningMusicOfAwesome
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Space Pirate Captain Harlock != Space Pirate Mito
Harlock is much more badass.
I never watched either - I just remember her saying she used to watch some anime with a space pirate, who had an eyepatch, brooded a lot and liked to drink wine. No wine in that pic, but he does seem pretty broody.
Also:
I'm so shojo I shit sparkles
I'd buy a car just to have this as a bumper sticker.
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Reminds me of.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc110/Cadmas/1115154550.jpg)
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Candy Candy was pretty cool actually. Orphan girl goes on adventures, in pursuit of her one true prince. Enjoy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inxfzGothHo)
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This thread :|
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This thread :|
... has gone to the only possible direction left open by its creator.
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This thread :|
... has gone to the only possible direction left open by its creator.
And the best direction available.
Might Gaine, how I miss thee...
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Lighten up, Francis.
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This guy is nuttier than candy bar shit.
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Well, this is going nowhere. Whiterock Shot.