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Thread 1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.0.html)
Thread 2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4614.0.html)
Thread 3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5049.0.html)
Thread 4 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.0.html)
Thread 5 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6744.0.html)
Thread 6 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.0.html)
Thread 7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9136.0.html)
Thread 8 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11564.0.html)
Thread 9 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13990.0.html)
Thread 10 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15170.0.html)
Thread 11 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.0.html)
Translation Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html)
English Wiki
LoT 1 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou)
LoT 2 (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2)
MoonJapanese Wiki
LoT 1 (http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/)
LoT 2 (http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2)
LoT 1 Patches and other downloads
Ver 2.04 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/mzdgl54mxmi/thLabyrinth_ver2.04.zip)
Ver 2.06B patch (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DA1DGQZC) Dead link. HALP.
Ver 3.01 patch (http://www.mediafire.com/download/ahccqhixp7d1n9p/thLabyrinth_ver3.01.zip)
English Patch for Ver 3.01 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/71x2aghm3dco808/Labyrinth+of+Touhou+Special+Disk+English+Patch.zip)
Cheat Engine chart (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg356800.html#msg356800)
Cheat table for Special Disc on Win XP (Cheat list ver: 8th June 2010) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6229.msg377088.html#msg377088)
Suggested builds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,7188.msg589521.html#msg589521)
Offline database (http://www.mediafire.com/download/w5jig4q58hlmy3z/Labyrinth+DataBase.rar)
LoT 2 Patches and other downloads
Start game with all characters (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.msg1017162.html#msg1017162)
Ver 1.202 (http://firestorage.jp/download/0584ab67e6fae363810686ef8648a4c7e09e4c0a)
Ver 1.203 (http://firestorage.jp/download/7814f97d45779c2c977b514c0db479fae8e926d8)
Image packs
Squidtentacle's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j)
chripy's pack (http://www.mediafire.com/download/pc8dovp81cj8u8z/CharaGraph.rar)
Pandaology's pack (https://www.mediafire.com/?pdk5l7dc8vy9z)
Developer's site: http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/ (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/)
Main page : http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/THL2/top.htm)
Done. Mostly. :toot:
Wow that's tedious.
There is some weird (probably BP related with my luck) condition to get Maribel
. Last time, I had her by now. This time, she won't appear. I have all other characters recruited, I've beaten the Boss Rush, the first two Renko
bosses and I've beaten all but two of the Strengthen Bosses.
It's not Yukari BP, unless she needs more than 500.
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There is some weird (probably BP related with my luck) condition to get Maribel
. Last time, I had her by now. This time, she won't appear. I have all other characters recruited, I've beaten the Boss Rush, the first two Renko
bosses and I've beaten all but two of the Strengthen Bosses.
It's not Yukari BP, unless she needs more than 500.
Try clearing the strengthen boss rush? :V
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I'm honestly at a loss at what I'm supposed to do against
Shredding Amnesieri
Like others have mentioned, I can't find a way to out damage it's regeneration and deal with its insanely fast speed. I've inflicted a 50% SPD debuff along with Heavy and it still moves at blazing speeds, even with my own characters having 50+% buff in SPD. There must be something I'm overlooking other than just flat out grinding....
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I'm honestly at a loss at what I'm supposed to do against Shredding Amnesieri
Like others have mentioned, I can't find a way to out damage it's regeneration and deal with its insanely fast speed. I've inflicted a 50% SPD debuff along with Heavy and it still moves at blazing speeds, even with my own characters having 50+% buff in SPD. There must be something I'm overlooking other than just flat out grinding....
Don't know about you all, but I was over leveled. Just use a combination of Yukari, Yuugi, Sanae, Aya and Byakuren to get Yuugi with around 80k ATK stat and max buff then just kill the boss without much problem...
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Just use a combination of Yukari, Yuugi, Sanae, Aya and Byakuren to get Yuugi with around 80k ATK stat and max buff then just kill the boss without much problem...
Sighs... "Just use my exact same set up and you'll be fine."
That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for strategies, and I'm also avoiding grinding some more as I'm already 20 levels above the challenge level.
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Sighs... "Just use my exact same set up and you'll be fine."
That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for strategies, and I'm also avoiding grinding some more as I'm already 20 levels above the challenge level.
That wasn't what I meant. Anyway, if you're looking for strategies, did you check the previous thread last page? There is a screenshot of it's bestiary page and people were suggesting Eiki.
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Shredding is a nightmare and, as much as I hate to admit it, is pretty close to impossible at challenge level. I was close to 40 or 50 levels over when I finally beat it.
But making yourself as resistant to Dark as possible helps. It cuts the damage from his health reduce slash. Reallocating your level up bonus for speed helps, too. You almost have to use either Eiki or Kaguya, as they are the only ones who can effectively hurt him; he's weak to Spirit and they both have a defensive ignoring Spirit nuke. While he doesn't have a pattern, per say, he is most likely going to use the health reduction, but he also has a cold nuke (that does literally nothing, its a free turn to heal/buff) and another Dark row attack (this one hurts).
After he falls below half, his strategy changes. He stops using the health reduction, and starts actually fighting. He gains a new move that is the health reduce, but its one target and its very powerful. Your best bet is to buff Eiki/Kaguya (or both) and do everything you can to keep them alive.
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Or you can use the Yuyuko, Aya and Satori combination, unless I'm forgetting they bestiary symbols, which is most probably the case right now... What does that dark red triangle in Shock mean again?
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Or you can use the Yuyuko, Aya and Satori combination, unless I'm forgetting they bestiary symbols, which is most probably the case right now... What does that dark red triangle in Shock mean again?
Red = weak against, blue = strong against.
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Ah yes, that seems to be the case, but what about the triangles and the circles?
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Ah yes, that seems to be the case, but what about the triangles and the circles?
They are for how weak/strong against, not too sure the actual values though, maybe someone else here might have more info.
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Are there any other places to get the item "Costume - Ninja Head". I've been farming on 20F for a little too long already considering I find the monster that drops it maybe 1/50 fights and it's a 2.5% drop...yea. Any ideas other than praying to RNGesus?
EDIT: Forget all my original post, got the Ninja head very next mermaid I fought. Now a new problem.
I'm missing 2 items that afaik are only from boss drops, The Black Goddess of Fertility, and one of the 20F guards. Mirror i think it was. Can i get these drops when fighting the V2 battles?
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Triangle means it's weak to it. I think really weak would be X though? I'm not sure if red circles are even a thing (as far as I'm aware it's red triangles or blue circles, but I'm rusty on LoT2 stuff)
Anyway, since it's so fast, having a shock weakness would make sense. Perhaps you could throw a shock-inducing main equipment on a fast attacker and see how that works out. Those items have weak effects, though, so perhaps... ooh, Orin's Cat's Walk? I think the accessory's ailment chance stacks on moves that already possess it, too. If it's weak enough to Shock, Rin might be able to practically shut down the fight, considering how fast and mp-cheap the move is, and that she has Extra Attack.
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Here's it's page. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29297294/Labyrinth%20of%20Touhou%202/Shredding%20Amnesier.png) Pulled from the previous thread.
It's not weak to shock, it resists it somewhat. Could still work, though, but I wouldn't count on it.
I keep forgetting about Yuyuko's ATB manipulation. She probably won't be able to do much damage, but she is an option based on that. One of these playthroughs, I might actually use her.
For resistances, dark red X is super weak, X is weak, Triangle is kinda weak, circle is kinda resistant, double circle is very resistant and star is pretty much immune.
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Hmm... By the way, do all strengthened bosses have the same drops as the normal ones?
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No, the Strengthen Bosses have no drops.
Also, Eiki is no longer a plant. She's Human now. Just a random thing I noticed going through the bestiary.
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Alright, then there is no point in doing them at the challenge level, right? And I assume the Strengthened Boss Rush has no drops either?
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You still get the Stat Gems for doing it at level. And there the whole challenge of beating it at recommended. Victory feels hollow when you just super overlevel and smash through it with no difficulty.
Except Shredding and the two 20F Strengthen Bosses. They deserve it.
Not sure about the rush, though. I haven't beaten it yet.
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About Shredding Amnesieri...
I remember when I've beaten him it was on my first encounter at lv122 Kaguya had 10 MP MAG SPD gems and 200 MAG/SPD level.
Just loaded my 1.1x save after the last boss to fight him again.
Now trying lv122 without gems and every stats lv100 like everyone.
The more the battle last the faster he gets.
At some point he's so fast at 7500 ATB I lose to his 6xxx ATB (can't put safely a glass canon he will get a turn even if switched right after his turn, like 100xx vs 1000x) with -50% SPD DBF (thanks Hina... but I need more).
So it's a luck-based damage race or a trick lies undiscovered.
Also tried Rin with Cat's Walk, Extra attack and the SHK main-equip with Reisen on the front to reduce his ailments resistances.
He very rarely gets shocked, less than 1/10.
Didn't try anyone outside of Kaguya and Eiki yet.
Hope some can deal good damage to rush him and allow to take risks but from what I've read...
You still get the Stat Gems for doing it at level. And there the whole challenge of beating it at recommended. Victory feels hollow when you just super overlevel and smash through it with no difficulty.
Except Shredding and the two 20F Strengthen Bosses. They deserve it.
Not sure about the rush, though. I haven't beaten it yet.
The only Strengthen Bosses close to him would be the Glowing Azure Giant well seeing how our teams are different I can't really judge.
The Strengthen Boss Rush is not hard, but tedious.
The hardest bosses are the 2 wasps because you can't afford risks, I had to make a semi tank/damage dealer.
Once I defeated them, everything has gone as planned, the battle took me 1 hour (retries not included ;_;).
I'm missing 2 items that afaik are only from boss drops, The Black Goddess of Fertility, and one of the 20F guards. Mirror i think it was. Can i get these drops when fighting the V2 battles?
There's no unique sub-equip in the page 5 except the last one you can't miss, you will find them later in some chests can't tell you where though.
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You still get the Stat Gems for doing it at level. And there the whole challenge of beating it at recommended. Victory feels hollow when you just super overlevel and smash through it with no difficulty.
Except Shredding and the two 20F Strengthen Bosses. They deserve it.
The gems are a little tempting, but it's not like I'm too overleveled. I can be overleveled enough to have a fun fight. Although that's hardly how I roll in RPGs, in this case I wanted to beat them fairly quickly so I can play the other new bosses, which I'm hoping are fun, not just luck-needing battles(without grinding).
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Would it be a fair fight considering that I've finished everything in 1.202 then going back to 1.201 to make Shredding respawn and defeating it with everything I have in 1.202 except changing the lowering the current party level to the challenge level or do I need to do something else?
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Defeating everything at level and below to get the Stat Gems is really one of the more reliable ways to get them, and getting them throughout the game is always nice, especially on Hard Mode where you're forced to be at level anyways, so you'll always be getting them. Granted, they don't provide a massive boost (they boost growth by 0.2 each, which unless you have a high level and multipliers isn't too much), they're not necessary, but hey, it's something.
Speaking of Hard Mode, still going through my Hard Mode run. The Magatama and the Mirror on 12F were annoying, and yet Tenshi I still beat on my first try thanks to debuffs, Heavy, and Hina. After finishing this I'm probably going to try a Team 9 synergy run and see how far I get before I get overwhelmed. At the very least some of the difficulty is overridden by the fact I can focus all of my money on their stats and overgrind if things go south since I am not masochistic enough to try a synergy run on Hard Mode.
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I gave Kaguya 10 MP MAG and SPD gems it felt like I could kill every boss with her, as long as they don't resist to MYS/NTR/SPI else Yuugi with 10 MP ATK SPD if they resist.
... or Eiki.
They really make a difference between "recommended level with gems" against "recommended level without gems".
But we don't need as much as we can get through the entire game.
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I'm starting to think that it's time for me to get back to starting that Hard Mode run I claimed I was going to a while back. Guess I'll need to rebuild the team.
And shouldn't we have a link to the translation thread in the first post? It just seems like a convenient thing to have.
Edit: Also, the ver. 1.202 link in the first post doesn't work.
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Try it now, should be fixed.
E: Derped about the translation thread. Link added.
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I've noticed a spelling error in Satori's surname in the English patch, it says Komeji instead of Komeiji.
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Just confirming here, but the fourth scroll you need for Byakuren is a random drop on 14F, right? I want to try to get her and Yuuka (maybe even Flandre if I'm high enough level), but since I never got her in my first run, well...
EDIT: Aaaaaaaaand I just got it. Whew. That was kind of annoying, although it did level everyone around three or so times, so I can't exactly complain.
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Just confirming here, but the fourth scroll you need for Byakuren is a random drop on 14F, right? I want to try to get her and Yuuka (maybe even Flandre if I'm high enough level), but since I never got her in my first run, well...
Yes, that's correct.
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Would it be a fair fight considering that I've finished everything in 1.202 then going back to 1.201 to make Shredding respawn and defeating it with everything I have in 1.202 except changing the lowering the current party level to the challenge level?
So I did this, Suika has around 63k ATK stat, Yuugi has around 59k ATK stat. Both of them with buff were able to deal more damage than Shredding's regen.
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That wasn't what I meant. Anyway, if you're looking for strategies, did you check the previous thread last page? There is a screenshot of it's bestiary page and people were suggesting Eiki.
My bad then. It certainly sounded like that's what you meant to me.
So basically in the end, I just have to play better since I already use both Eiki and Kaguya regularly as part of my main team (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69830990/Stuffs/Team.PNG).
I also don't know about the rest of you but since the 1.151 patch until the most recent patches, I've just been killing the final boss over and over again to get the stat gems. It drops one per run, which isn't stellar, but its basically an infinite source of stat gems, other than HP MP and TP increasing stat gems which it doesn't seem to drop.
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My bad then. It certainly sounded like that's what you meant to me.
So basically in the end, I just have to play better since I already use both Eiki and Kaguya regularly as part of my main team (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69830990/Stuffs/Team.PNG).
I also don't know about the rest of you but since the 1.151 patch until the most recent patches, I've just been killing the final boss over and over again to get the stat gems. It drops one per run, which isn't stellar, but its basically an infinite source of stat gems, other than HP MP and TP increasing stat gems which it doesn't seem to drop.
Maybe pump some hp into your damage dealers might help? Even from leveling down, my Suika and Yuugi had at least 10k+ hp and the boss is cutting away hp at minimum of 3k+.
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Shredding is a nightmare and, as much as I hate to admit it, is pretty close to impossible at challenge level. I was close to 40 or 50 levels over when I finally beat it.
But making yourself as resistant to Dark as possible helps. It cuts the damage from his health reduce slash. Reallocating your level up bonus for speed helps, too. You almost have to use either Eiki or Kaguya, as they are the only ones who can effectively hurt him; he's weak to Spirit and they both have a defensive ignoring Spirit nuke. While he doesn't have a pattern, per say, he is most likely going to use the health reduction, but he also has a cold nuke (that does literally nothing, its a free turn to heal/buff) and another Dark row attack (this one hurts).
After he falls below half, his strategy changes. He stops using the health reduction, and starts actually fighting. He gains a new move that is the health reduce, but its one target and its very powerful. Your best bet is to buff Eiki/Kaguya (or both) and do everything you can to keep them alive.
Looks l just have to farm more stat gems. I also can't wait until I get Byakuren up to a level where giving her a subclass can actually be useful possible. I've noticed that with the Strategist's Inspiration Plan ability, Byakuren can stay topped off at 100% buffs. I initially considered giving her the Transcendent subclass but since I haven't been using her offensively, that seems less useful.
Edit: I just noticed that they nerfed Komachi's HP... T.T
Also, version 1.203 is out. I also just noticed that Maribel has the only non elemental attack in the game. Not sure how useful that may be yet but that key trait certainly made her a lot more appealing to me than her LoT1 counter part.
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Maribel has the only non elemental attack in the game. Not sure how useful that may be yet but that key trait certainly made her a lot more appealing to me than her LoT1 counter part.
Maribel is actually really strong in this one. Her non-elemental move has a good bit of power to it, she has a party heal and her second move has a high chance of shock. If you use her and Renko both, she gets HP and MP regen on top of it. I put her in to try her last playthrough and never took her out.
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Maribel is actually really strong in this one. Her non-elemental move has a good bit of power to it, she has a party heal and her second move has a high chance of shock. If you use her and Renko both, she gets HP and MP regen on top of it. I put her in to try her last playthrough and never took her out.
I'm going to assume you meant a party wide "buff" that's not really a buff, instead of a party heal but regardless, her abilities look absolutely great, specifically Ability to See The Boundaries. Treating enemy buffs as if they were debuffs could potentially mean that enemies can be "debuffed" past 50% which sounds amazing. Even if their "debuff" is still capped at 50% by technicality, that's still great on bosses that like to buff themselves. Ability to Slightly Fiddle with Boundaries is also very nice and Rapid Charge gives me a reason to actually invest in Grand Incantation (I never invested in it before since I tend to be fond of glass cannons that shouldn't be out for more than a turn).
She's certainly someone I need to try whenever I finally get through the post game content and finish my synergy run, which will be finished after defeating the Final Boss (I don't even want to attempt using my Synergy team in the post game, save for maybe the first boss rush.)
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I'm going to assume you meant a party wide "buff" that's not really a buff, instead of a party heal but regardless
When you level it up, it heals too. The wiki doesn't say this for some reason!
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Annnnnnd I finally beat the final boss on Hard Mode. Whew! It mostly involved spamming Leaning Iron Mountain with Byakuren, Suika, and Remilia until it died. Holy crap that was a bitch and a half but I finally did it. And now I can try to kick it's ass with my full strength, do the postgame stuff, plus I can start my Team Nine synergy run (which is going to probably suck but hey, I'm up for a challenge with this game)!
Edit: ...Is it just me, or is the fact that the Boss Rush does not include Touhou bosses and ends at the Magatama of the High Gods... disappointing? I would have liked it to go from the beginning to the end with every boss like in the first game, but... well... okay then, if you say so.
Second Edit: Okay, uh... anyone know what this event does or is? Do I need BP for it, or...?
(http://puu.sh/5Tloh.jpg)
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This is the event that will disappear after you beat the super-bosses on 16F, 17F, and 18F. After you defeat them, that event won't be blocking your way.
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As in the Strengthen Bosses? Alright then. I just have to get a high enough level to beat them all... I was able to beat the 16F FOE before the final boss, but when I so much as attempted the extra area or any of the Strengthen Bosses... yeesh.
In other news, the Baka Brigade is going strong. Just getting the first level of Team 9 on everyone is amazing. I have slightly more hope for being able to do this. ^^;
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As in the Strengthen Bosses? Alright then. I just have to get a high enough level to beat them all... I was able to beat the 16F FOE before the final boss, but when I so much as attempted the extra area or any of the Strengthen Bosses... yeesh.
Not really, you need to defeat those 3 special bosses, which will also require you to defeat the 12 strengthen bosses, which require you to defeat the boss rush on the east side of 20F.
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Oh, the Deformed Bosses. Right. I'm trying to figure out the correct order to do everything in and apparently it's Boss Rush, Strengthen Bosses, Extra Areas/Deformed Bosses, Strengthen Boss Rush, 21F Bosses, Strengthen Final Boss. That about right?
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Oh, the Deformed Bosses. Right. I'm trying to figure out the correct order to do everything in and apparently it's Boss Rush, Strengthen Bosses, Extra Areas/Deformed Bosses, Strengthen Boss Rush, 21F Bosses, Strengthen Final Boss. That about right?
Seems to be right, except there is no boss or any monster at 21F, currently it's just there to make strengthen final boss appear.
Edit: You do need to fight 4 bosses in those extra areas to unblock those rocks at 21F though.
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Not to ask a dumb question, but can someone point me to the 1.203 english patch please if they can?
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Not to ask a dumb question, but can someone point me to the 1.203 english patch please if they can?
Translation Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.msg1055710.html#msg1055710)
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Translation Thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.msg1055710.html#msg1055710)
Thanks Jax! Now I need to finish the game and kill the final boss.
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On a separate note, anyone interested in starting to add some new stuff to the wiki, like the new content and the stat formulas? I can add some stuff but not really anything related to the postgame.
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On a separate note, anyone interested in starting to add some new stuff to the wiki, like the new content and the stat formulas? I can add some stuff but not really anything related to the postgame.
Once I kill the last Strengthen boss, which I'm doing as I type this, I'll start on the extra bosses. Expect the three Deformed bosses sometime tomorrow.
On the note of Strengthen Bosses, I don't think we really need to make another guide for them. With the exception of the Magatama, they are the exact same, just a higher level.
E: Condition to recruit Maribel is to have Renko. Can I get someone to confirm or deny before I put it on the wiki? I know I had Maribel earlier last game, but that was a previous version, so getting her before Renko may have been a glitch.
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I've already changed the 21F name on the wiki since people seem to like the one suggested in the translation thread, and I'll add the stat related stuff in a similar way to how it was done on the LoT1 page, since I found it. I'll also add a "postgame" page for the boss rush, etc. I won't be able to add everything since I'm not that far in the postgame, but I can at least set up the bare bones.
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E: Condition to recruit Maribel is to have Renko. Can I get someone to confirm or deny before I put it on the wiki? I know I had Maribel earlier last game, but that was a previous version, so getting her before Renko may have been a glitch.
Can't help since that time I already have Renko and only found Maribel while randomly wandering around, need someone without Renko to keep checking 11F for Maribel's event.
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On a separate note, anyone interested in starting to add some new stuff to the wiki, like the new content and the stat formulas? I can add some stuff but not really anything related to the postgame.
Before that, we should actually write a guide for the final boss first.
I had planned to do it once I finished my synergy run, since I would have had to beat it without using too many characters that are considered top tier. This way, I could have objective views on the final boss and write a proper guide. That, and the fact that I was already over leveled, and didn't want to go through the trouble of fiddling with the level unification and Voile to get a proper feel for final boss.
I think it should be a priority over post game content.
Edit:
Maybe I'm overlooking something pretty obvious, but I honestly can't figure out what "floor" is referring to in the stat formula:
The final values of each stat are calculated as follows:
HP/ ATK/ MAG/ DEF/ MND = floor(floor(Base Value) * Multiplier)
SPD = floor(floor(Base Value) * Multiplier) + 100
What it seems to be is a nested function but then what exactly is the "floor" function calculating?
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The floor function is just rounding to the lowest integer.
Also I see your point on the final boss. I can note down the phases and such, but as for actual strategy I think I'd leave that for someone who is better at... strategizing. I mean, for Hard Mode I basically had Byakuren, Suika, and Remilia plug away at it with Leaning Iron Mountain until it died.
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Before that, we should actually write a guide for the final boss first.
I had planned to do it once I finished my synergy run, since I would have had to beat it without using too many characters that are considered top tier. This way, I could have objective views on the final boss and write a proper guide. That, and the fact that I was already over leveled, and didn't want to go through the trouble of fiddling with the level unification and Voile to get a proper feel for final boss.
I think it should be a priority over post game content.
What I forgot to add to this was, "Since the new patch, I've been too busy going through the post game content to finish my synergy run."
The floor function is just rounding to the lowest integer.
Also I see your point on the final boss. I can note down the phases and such, but as for actual strategy I think I'd leave that for someone who is better at... strategizing. I mean, for Hard Mode I basically had Byakuren, Suika, and Remilia plug away at it with Leaning Iron Mountain until it died.
I'm not exactly much better, at least for this particular fight. I tend to just have Kaguya spam Swallow's Cowrie Shell. Everyone else is there to support her, either through buffing, debuffing the boss, healing or inflicting Poison / Heavy.
There obviously should be some strategy involved, seeing as the boss uses World Shaking Military Rule, as well as Great Calamity and Great Ruin at specific HP thresholds, but I couldn't be bothered to mess around with my main file to actually develop one.
And aside from me whining about how lazy I am, I've also noticed that the final boss has had some of its behavior patterns changed since 1.151 so even if I really wanted to, I'd still have to figure out whats different.
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I'll get the final boss, too, while I'm writing the Deformed and Extra bosses' stuff.
I just need someone to get the money and experience from the Deformed guys. I, in my fatigue last night, forgot that you can't see it from the bestiary and forgot to write down Staring Igmaruji's XP/money. I also need someone who is that far to check what Aria-Singing Toruastory gimmick/strategy was. I remember he had percentage based regen, but the fight went by so fast, I don't remember if he did any statuses, if he buffed or anything like that. I wasn't overleveled, so maybe this fight is just easy.
E: Whew, Deformed Bosses and final boss are done for now. I'm also dropping the final bosses Drops. All bosses drop gems and training manuals when defeated at the challenge level, so it's unusual that he's the only one with the gems listed.
E2: First extra boss down. I just put it on the floor its on (11F), similar to how the Bloodstain Bosses are with the first game. Wow, I didn't notice his main nuke was non-elemental the first time...
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The Ame-no-Murakumo has gem drops listed because he drops one of them randomly when defeated, regardless of level.
EDIT: On another note... I swear these recommended levels for the Strengthen bosses are way too low. I only managed to beat the one on 1F through a bit of luck and Flandre with Lavatein and Gambler. The one on 3F... holy crap, that thing is fast and overall just aaaaaaaagh.
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EDIT: On another note... I swear these recommended levels for the Strengthen bosses are way too low. I only managed to beat the one on 1F through a bit of luck and Flandre with Lavatein and Gambler. The one on 3F... holy crap, that thing is fast and overall just aaaaaaaagh.
For the one on 1F, I just stalled while spamming DTH inflicting spells. It's one of the few bosses that doesn't have immunity to DTH. I'll tell you right now that the one on 3F is much worse than its paralyzing counter part on 4F. In fact, its the worse Strengthen boss yet until you reach Strengthen Memorized Knowledge in my opinion.
Speaking of Strengthen Great Intellect, just freaking spent the last hour meticulously switching my characters just to get one attack in before having to switch them out to avoid Ether Flare. It can kill Komachi in one hit with a 100% MAG buff so I also had to meticulously switch in someone to debuff its MAG as well as its SPD... I am NOT looking forward to the Strengthen Boss Rush holy crap...
The Ame-no-Murakumo has gem drops listed because he drops one of them randomly when defeated, regardless of level.
All bosses drop at least one gem regardless of level. Having never actually beaten a boss at challenge level, I can only assume that they drop more gems when fought at challenge level.
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Oh, really? In that case... I think I'm going to skip that one until later, then come back to it because that speed is just... argh.
In brighter news, made it to 4F with the Baka Brigade. So far, not too bad, not too bad.
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For the one on 1F, I just stalled while spamming DTH inflicting spells. It's one of the few bosses that doesn't have immunity to DTH. I'll tell you right now that the one on 3F is much worse than its paralyzing counter part on 4F. In fact, its the worse Strengthen boss yet until you reach Strengthen Great Intellect in my opinion.
Speaking of Strengthen Great Intellect, just freaking spent the last hour meticulously switching my characters just to get one attack in before having to switch them out to avoid Ether Flare. It can kill Komachi in one hit with a 100% MAG buff so I also had to meticulously switch in someone to debuff its MAG as well as its SPD... I am NOT looking forward to the Strengthen Boss Rush holy crap...All bosses drop at least one gem regardless of level. Having never actually beaten a boss at challenge level, I can only assume that they drop more gems when fought at challenge level.
Actually, the strengthen boss rush might be easier depending on how you play it, since all new bosses will start with 0 action bar(except that 1 time those 3 orbs somehow didn't all start from 0, might have been a bug) and you get to keep your buffs and current action bar, just need to make sure your front line characters are not in bad shape.
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Been awhile since I played, but I plugged in the new update to check it out a bit. Ended up making past the 88 achievements or whatever needed to get past a rock I couldn't previously go past on 20F so I'll check that out next time I play.
Probably a silly question forthcoming here...but was I just crazy, or did the requirements for getting past a rock in the northwest part of 20F change? Part of me feels like it was something around the lines of needing 2m yen stashed up or whatever to get past it in the past. Now it required 24 of something which I had.
Also...is there's supposed to be nowhere to move after taking either staircase past those 12F rocks I couldn't get past in the version I previously played (Ver 1.150 I think I last played, maybe 1.151. Want to say they were by the main boss of that floor)? Because it allowed me to get past the rocks when I went to examine them after applying the latest update, then I went up the staircases and found myself in an empty void, unable to move unless I went back to town. Seemed like there were events and so on there so...maybe I didn't add everything provided by the latest update? I dunno.
Anyways, looks like I get to grind to take on these new bosses that appeared because they all more or less wiped my party in record time (Levels around 125-145 right now, complete estimate).
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The 20F rock requires 240000 money or more.
As for the 12F rocks, there should be something there, not an empty space. You sure you're up to v1.203?
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240000 eh? Guess that'd explain it.
And yeah, I'm at 1.203 for sure. I know I go past either rock on 12F, head to the staircase on either side, take it, and I end up in what's essentially a void. I can see the stairs I just took next to me. I think I even saw some events in the void, but I can't move and have to warp back to town. I'll see if I actually added everything from the patch download when I play a bit tonight. If not, I can provide a pic of my minor predicament tomorrow.
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If you didn't add the data folder, that would be your problem. The data folder is what contains the files that determine where you can actually walk in the dungeon.
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Oh yup, that would be my problem, heh. I know I didn't add that from the recent patch. That's what I get for being in a rush to update. Many thanks for the help.
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Alright, I got as much of the postgame stuff down as possible based on what I remember and what I've gotten so far. I won't be able to do much more, I'll be without internet until New Years.
Also, holy crap, Divas are broken. I killed the cookies by poisoning them, then locking down their turns with Mystia as a Diva. Her Instant Attack let me switch her out then back in to get the turn delay off at any time. The first one summoned the others, and that's all that happened. It was a long and very boring battle.
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Uh, hello :V
The Poisonous Wasp, Glowing Azure Giant and Memorized Knowledge stand out as being particularly difficult
I'd like to say that The Poisonous Wasp and Memorized Knowledge can be permanently stunlocked by Orin. Same goes for 14F extra area boss. Despite his super blazing speed he didn't even get a single turn, because Orin goes first anyway. Also, Yuuka basically solo'd Staring Igmaruji. 100k+ damage per flower shot, extra attack and he couldn't do anything to her at all.
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Uh, hello :VI'd like to say that The Poisonous Wasp and Memorized Knowledge can be permanently stunlocked by Orin. Same goes for 14F extra area boss. Despite his super blazing speed he didn't even get a single turn, because Orin goes first anyway. Also, Yuuka basically solo'd Staring Igmaruji. 100k+ damage per flower shot, extra attack and he couldn't do anything to her at all.
I'm interested in hearing how Memorized Knowledge can be stunlocked by Orin. It is immune to all status ailments except debuffs so how was it stunlocked? I could see that being the case with the Wasp since it is relatively weak to Shock.
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I'm interested in hearing how Memorized Knowledge can be stunlocked by Orin. It is immune to all status ailments except debuffs so how was it stunlocked? I could see that being the case with the Wasp since it is relatively weak to Shock.
He is NOT immune to shock (game's bestiary shows neutral resistance, and he is actually very weak to Silence. The normal version is indeed immune to everything, but not the strengthen version.) and he is slow enough for Orin with a shock item to somewhat reliably inflict it. At least it gave me plenty of time to smash him with Flan. He would have finally gotten his first turn after Flan's, but he didn't live long enough for that :V You can also bring Sakuya with Private Square to give Orin even more time to trigger it, but I didn't need it.
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He is NOT immune to shock (game's bestiary shows neutral resistance, and he is actually very weak to Silence. The normal version is indeed immune to everything, but not the strengthen version.) and he is slow enough for Orin with a shock item to somewhat reliably inflict it. At least it gave me plenty of time to smash him with Flan. He would have finally gotten his first turn after Flan's, but he didn't live long enough for that :V You can also bring Sakuya with Private Square to give Orin even more time to trigger it, but I didn't need it.
I didn't realize there were separate entries for the Strengthen versions....
Should've double checked the bestiary before running my mouth.
On the note of Strengthen Bosses, I don't think we really need to make another guide for them. With the exception of the Magatama, they are the exact same, just a higher level.
Since its just been proven that the Strengthen versions aren't just the regular versions with higher stats, we might want to reconsider making a separate guide for them.
It would make sense, considering that for most of the bosses, your capabilities were limited to the characters available at the time.
Take Evil Nut Eater for example. It had been susceptible to DTH all along but obviously, you wouldn't have had access to DTH when you fought it the first time.
Also, holy crap, Divas are broken. I killed the cookies by poisoning them, then locking down their turns with Mystia as a Diva. Her Instant Attack let me switch her out then back in to get the turn delay off at any time. The first one summoned the others, and that's all that happened. It was a long and very boring battle.
I've been busy attempting that strategy without the use of a Diva. I got very close to succeeding, but then Wriggle went and killed the first one using Poison Touch doing 1 damage....
Edit: I re-attempted the strategy just now, making sure to take off Poison Touch and Edokko God of Death from Komachi, and got to the point where they all had 1 HP. The problem? Only my supports were alive and they couldn't manage to deal the 1 point of damage to finish them off T.T
Edit2: Holy hell that took awhile... Now is the music that was playing unique only to that boss or can I expect to hear it again? If it was unique, I'd like to be able to extract the sound track somehow.
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Welp, meant to edit my last post instead of posting again...
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Sooo I defeated (kinda) the Strengthen Final Boss. I've tried beating it normally a few times, but then I went "Why am I even trying", used every single of my reset books (I didn't touch only Sanae, Aya and Hina, because I needed them) and put every single point into Flan's attack (also using all the stat/skill gems). And then there were none. :3
There's one problem though - I still don't have the 7th subequip at page 6, column 1. I have every other item, but not that.
And I have no idea how it's even possible to get to a certain area (near the stairs to 8F) in the extra part of 9F, it seems unreachable (maybe it's a bug? There are two items in that area, but no stairways, portals, holes or whatever).
About the cookies - I didn't use poison at all (well, Alice poisoned them once, but that didn't do much). Since they're weak to nature, Yuuka ate through their HP fairly fast with Beauty of Nature, and selectively reduced some cookies' HP with flower shot, and then I just finished them all off with Laevateinn :V That wasn't that long, although I failed once due to that annoying HP=1 move.
I imagine using both Poison and Yuuka for this fight is an nice idea though, since Beauty of Nature powers up status effects. Might make this fight go a lot faster.
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About the cookies - I didn't use poison at all (well, Alice poisoned them once, but that didn't do much). Since they're weak to nature, Yuuka ate through their HP fairly fast with Beauty of Nature, and selectively reduced some cookies' HP with flower shot, and then I just finished them all off with Laevateinn :V That wasn't that long, although I failed once due to that annoying HP=1 move.
I imagine using both Poison and Yuuka for this fight is an nice idea though, since Beauty of Nature powers up status effects. Might make this fight go a lot faster.
Can't wait until I actually start a NG+ after all this... Like I've said before, there's so many characters that I need to try seriously to see how they fit with my play style.
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There's one problem though - I still don't have the 7th subequip at page 6, column 1. I have every other item, but not that.
And I have no idea how it's even possible to get to a certain area (near the stairs to 8F) in the extra part of 9F, it seems unreachable (maybe it's a bug? There are two items in that area, but no stairways, portals, holes or whatever).
You can only get that item via crafting AFAIK and yes it's currently not possible to get to that part of 9F extra (hopefully this means there will be more content updates in the future).
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Can't wait until I actually start a NG+ after all this... Like I've said before, there's so many characters that I need to try seriously to see how they fit with my play style.
From my experience, I can say at least that Sakuya, Yuuka and Hina are freaking awesome. I didn't use Hina until postgame, but then I did and she's amazing.
Sakuya is an ultimate trash mob clearer, there is no contest IMO - she's fast, powerful, pierces defense, inflicts paralysis, attacks multiple times and has 100% accuracy with Soul Sculpture. She's still good in boss fights, because of speed buff and Private Square which can be a lifesaver in the right situation.
Yuuka is a tank, damage dealer, emergency healer (due to extra attack, Reflowering can trigger multiple times and thus it usually heals much more than 10%. It once healed 70% and it saved the fight because Reimu had no MP just at that time) which regenerates HP and MP and basically always stays at 80-100% allstat buffs, if you throw just one Sanae buff at her. If you make her a Hexer, she'll also be able to debuff (and debuff a lot due to extra attack) and deal damage (some serious damage to Dark-weak enemies) at the same time. Sorcerer Yuuka is better damage-wise if you have a dedicated debuffer like Hina, however.
There's also Flan, who is, well, Flan :V. Gambler Flan deals so much damage, oh my god. Like, several million damage.
I can also mention Aya, but I think everyone already knows what's so good about her.
Other characters were not as impressive, but are also good. This game is much better balanced than the first, everyone is very useful in their own way.
You can only get that item via crafting AFAIK and yes it's currently not possible to get to that part of 9F extra (hopefully this means there will be more content updates in the future).
No, it's not that item. I know about the crafted one (it's also the best thing ever for Flan due to chance of double damage. Double that million or two!), I have it.
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No, it's not that item. I know about the crafted one (it's also the best thing ever for Flan due to chance of double damage. Double that million or two!), I have it.
Both the chance to do double damage and chance to receive 0 damage items can only be gotten via crafting AFAIK...
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Both the chance to do double damage and chance to receive 0 damage items can only be gotten via crafting AFAIK...
Well, that one I do not have indeed, but it does not appear to be anywhere in the crafting menu. How do you get the recipe?
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Well, that one I do not have indeed, but it does not appear to be anywhere in the crafting menu. How do you get the recipe?
I'm not sure how getting those recipes thing work, but the item should be on the left side at the very bottom of the list (note: not sure about everyone else, but I have 83 items that I can craft, so after pressing up once, I need to press down once to see the 83rd item, which is the one you are looking for).
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I'm not sure how getting those recipes thing work, but the item should be on the left side at the very bottom of the list (note: not sure about everyone else, but I have 83 items that I can craft, so after pressing up once, I need to press down once to see the 83rd item, which is the one you are looking for).
Oh, lol, thank you, it was hiding there all along :V That's some weird GUI fail, you can't get it to show unless you're exactly on 81st item and you press down. Pressing up on 1st item moves you to 81, pressing down on 82 moves you to 2nd item.
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Can someone please post the raw character images for Renko and Maribel? I need it to finish the last piece of the LoT1 custom portraits.
No, I can't just use the PNG file on the wiki that has no transparency, that's just ridiculous.
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Can someone please post the raw character images for Renko and Maribel? I need it to finish the last piece of the LoT1 custom portraits.
No, I can't just use the PNG file on the wiki that has no transparency, that's just ridiculous.
https://www.mediafire.com/?z8s0dzkh8s0nw8k
All images are in there, extracted by Qaz from patch 1.151 (it still has Renko and Maribel with full and small portraits)
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So I just had a weird idea of making
Yuuka a monk
. Let's just say that worked well.
I actually killed the Strenghten Final Boss legitimately using her. No, not killed, BRUTALLY MURDERED. Oh wow. That compensates for all of her weaknesses, speed and, most importantly, lets her pierce defence. And her ATK is actually higher than MAG. That might as well be the best build for her. :V
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So I just had a weird idea of making Yuuka a monk
. Let's just say that worked well.
I actually killed the Strenghten Final Boss legitimately using her. No, not killed, BRUTALLY MURDERED. Oh wow. That compensates for all of her weaknesses, speed and, most importantly, lets her pierce defence. And her ATK is actually higher than MAG. That might as well be the best build for her. :V
This. Just this.
Yuuka's high ATK is indeed put to good use via the Monk's spellcards, especially since she has Extra Attack backing her up, and can become much faster in a hurry via a fully leveled up Puncturing Thrust(in addition to giving Yuuka an option against Nature resistant foes), Dexterity Training, being good as it is on anyone, is almost godly on Yuuka(Flower Shot with 72% post gauge, Reflowering of Gensokyo with 40% post gauge, and Beauty of Nature with 50% post gauge), and Body Revitalization combines with Majesty to boost Yuuka's stats by 10% with a 4% HP heal every turn(even if she simply uses Concentrate for that turn). Plus the fact that Yuuka's biggest weakness is her TP, which the subclass deals with fairly well.
If I had one gripe about the "Flower Master of Four Seasons" in this game, it would be about her unique special skill, Flowers do not Wither in Gensokyo. If only they would fix it so that it would restore the lower of either her HP or MP, rather than the wonkyness that it is now... Oh well.
Of course, this is coming from the same guy that would state things like "Why the hell does Cirno even have White Album, anyway?" and "Eirin's Hourai Elixir doesn't improve from leveling up why?"
, then go on to say something like "If only the game makers would have White Album give Cirno a offensive buff as well, so the spell can actually be useful..." or "Couldn't they give Hourai Elixir the power to revive people that improves in effectiveness from leveling up?"
, so...
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Well, the TP issue is easy to deal with using stat gems, they give plenty of that, but any additional TP sure help.
About Cirno, her defensive stats aren't THAT awful, with some a lot of investment you can turn her into a tank. And that might even make some sense if the only thing you need from her is speed debuff or paralysis.
But, hey, Hina is a tank without much investment and can debuff not only speed, but every stat instead. :V
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Um... the final boss just dropped Orujasu Shamshir...
I'm going to try to reproduce it but I'm pretty sure he's not supposed to drop anything (Unless you happen to be fighting the Strengthen version which I wasn't).
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So, got cooking on exploring the new areas a couple days ago. The extra stuff in 13F, from what I could explore, didn't amount to much more than some treasure and enemies that were doing quite a number on my team.
Then check out the extra areas of 11F and 10F, mapping both completely. 9F, if that's the floor I'm thinking of, had a rock requiring 48 of something I couldn't get past, then more wandering to find a boss fight next to a waypoint....
Cookies. I got my ass kicked by COOKIES. That's a thing indeed.
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Then check out the extra areas of 11F and 10F, mapping both completely. 9F, if that's the floor I'm thinking of, had a rock requiring 48 of something I couldn't get past, then more wandering to find a boss fight next to a waypoint....
You need all 48 characters recruited to get pass that rock.
(Unless you happen to be fighting the Strengthen version which I wasn't).
It doesn't drop any items (other than those usual stat gems), the Godly Katana is actually added to your inventory after the first time you defeated the strengthen version.
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So, got cooking on exploring the new areas a couple days ago. The extra stuff in 13F, from what I could explore, didn't amount to much more than some treasure and enemies that were doing quite a number on my team.
Then check out the extra areas of 11F and 10F, mapping both completely. 9F, if that's the floor I'm thinking of, had a rock requiring 48 of something I couldn't get past, then more wandering to find a boss fight next to a waypoint....
Cookies. I got my ass kicked by COOKIES. That's a thing indeed.
You should work on defeating the Strengthen bosses first. They make up a majority of the requirements to get past rocks in the extra areas. I'm at the moment, stuck on the last two Strengthen bosses, namely the 20F Magatama and Mirror bosses...
Speaking of which, Toruastory was a joke compared to Shredding. As for the guide on the fight, its basically like the final boss for me. I was far too overleveled to properly gauge what actions I needed to take. One thing I will say is that Toruastory's regeneration isn't based on current health. It just flat out regenerates less and less each turn for some unknown reason (I didn't damage it for several turns due to my focus being rebuffing my team and the amount regenerated clearly decreases without any action on my part)
It doesn't drop any items (other than those usual stat gems), the Godly Katana is actually added to your inventory after the first time you defeated the strengthen version.
That's what I thought, so I'm wondering how I randomly got another Orujasu Shamshir while fighting it. So far, I haven't been able to reproduce it but I'll keep trying. I needed more Stat gems anyway. I'll also take back what I said earlier about the final boss not dropping HP TP and MP gems. Seems like I was just unlucky.
Edit: Just poked around in the character pages and noticed a distinct lack of Cold attacks like the first game. Seems like the creators just plain don't like the Cold element...
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I'm at the moment, stuck on the last two Strengthen bosses, namely the 20F Magatama and Mirror bosses...
That strengthen mirror boss is hateful, it has some sort of resist on everything except being weak to silence.
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About Cirno, her defensive stats aren't THAT awful, with some a lot of investment you can turn her into a tank. And that might even make some sense if the only thing you need from her is speed debuff or paralysis.
But, hey, Hina is a tank without much investment and can debuff not only speed, but every stat instead. :V
Well, Cirno does seem to have the fastest level up rate this time around(unless the rate for Chen is faster still, no one seems to of listed Chen's level up rate yet), so something tells me that you have to level her up more than most characters to get a similar level of stats from her.
Given that thought, it would seem like Cirno would be most suited to using the Transcendant subclass, as the boosts from that class would become more effective for her because of her fast leveling up(if my guess about the boosts from Body Reinforcement are correct, then maxing out said skill with raise her HP, ATK, DEF, MAG, MND, and SPD growth rate by 3.0 per level, plus the 0.3 growth rate gained from just having the Transcendant subclass), turning her into, well...
Growth rates before Transcendant:
HP: 10.2
ATK: 9.8
DEF: 6.8
MAG: 9.8
MND: 5.4
SPD: 9.4
Growth rates after Transcendant:
HP: 13.5
ATK: 13.1
DEF: 10.1
MAG: 13.1
MND: 8.7
SPD: 12.7
And this is before you add her Speed Boost Skill or anything else to the mix with her rapid leveling. "Strongest Fairy" indeed.
As for Hina, all that's needed for her is to stick a Hexer subclass with Hexer's Conversion turned on, and her Biorhythm of the Misfortune God becomes a powerful means to restore all of her HP and MP, on top of her usual Misfortune Reversal buffing her up, making her into a very effective Mind tank.
Also, for the sake of actually being able to quote the technical stuff from the previous LoT2 thread(the stuff that isn't already on the wiki, at any rate), I'm posting this stuff here, from Validon98's post(and I'm forced to learn how to make a table from scratch, since I can't see the format of the code that was used to make the blasted thing, grumble grumble)...
Subclass Growth Rate Boosts
| HP | ATK | MAG | DEF | MND | SPD | MP | TP |
| Guardian | 0.8 | - | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | 4 |
| Monk | - | - | - | - | - | 0.6 | - | 6 |
| Warrior | 0.6 | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | 4 |
| Sorcerer | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | 2 | 2 |
| Healer | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | - |
| Enhancer | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | - |
| Hexer | - | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | 3 | 3 |
| Toxicologist | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | - | 2 | 4 |
| Magician | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | 0.2 | 6 | - |
| Pharmacologist | 0.8 | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | 4 |
| Strategist | - | - | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | 2 | 4 |
| Gambler | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | - |
| Diva | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | 1.0 | - | 4 |
| Transcendant | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | - | - |
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I'm not sure if anyone already knew this, or if it was already the case, but Hexer's Conversion now has only a third of its effect only on Hina.
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Well, Cirno does seem to have the fastest level up rate this time around(unless the rate for Chen is faster still, no one seems to of listed Chen's level up rate yet), so something tells me that you have to level her up more than most characters to get a similar level of stats from her.
Chen's is faster, my Chen is level 206, while Cirno is only 201.
So I just maxed out all Cirno's stat skills, gave her all 10 of all stat gems and a Transcendant subclass. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Her DEF growth becomes on par with Tenshi's, while having faster levelups. :V
Well, Rinnosuke is better for that kind of investment, his stats become pretty monstrous if you give him that, but who needs Rinnosuke anyway
That strengthen mirror boss is hateful, it has some sort of resist on everything except being weak to silence.
That boss is painful, I found the Magatama to be much easier this time around. At least you can damage that one, while mirror can only be harmed by Eiki pretty much (and she inficts silence which, combined with debuffs, actually allows other characters to damage it, but that doesn't last for long).
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Chen's is faster, my Chen is level 206, while Cirno is only 201.
So I just maxed out all Cirno's stat skills, gave her all 10 of all stat gems and a Transcendant subclass. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. Her DEF growth becomes on par with Tenshi's, while having faster levelups. :V
Well, Rinnosuke is better for that kind of investment, his stats become pretty monstrous if you give him that, but who needs Rinnosuke anyway
I'm tempted to actually use Rinnosuke and see just how far into late game do I need to be for him to be useful. Obviously going to need to slap Warrior / Sorcerer on him so he can at least attack, but with high boosts costing more, he won't become relevant until late game when you have the skill points to level them. Something to think about after my third run through of the game...
That boss is painful, I found the Magatama to be much easier this time around. At least you can damage that one, while mirror can only be harmed by Eiki pretty much (and she inficts silence which, combined with debuffs, actually allows other characters to damage it, but that doesn't last for long).
I don't even care that Eiki is the only one who can damage it, I have issues with even surviving the damned thing. It's multi-target Fire and Cold nukes hurt even my tanks with full defensive buffs on and 200+ resistance... and it has Half Moon Slash (multi-target HP to half), if I recall, which makes relying on Komachi to tank is much more of a hassle than it usually is.
I'm fine with long dragged out fights but when the boss can take out Wriggle and Byakuren (both of which are specced to tank) in two hits, I think I have a problem.
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I don't even care that Eiki is the only one who can damage it, I have issues with even surviving the damned thing. It's multi-target Fire and Cold nukes hurt even my tanks with full defensive buffs on and 200+ resistance... and it has Half Moon Slash (multi-target HP to half), if I recall, which makes relying on Komachi to tank is much more of a hassle than it usually is.
In my experience, once it reaches around 50% HP, its nukes get way, way more powerful. Before that they are not that dangerous and Reimu with barrier and healing can neutralize them.
You really need to rush to kill it once it gets past this point, but because it's so hard to damage, it becomes a serious problem. You really need luck with this one, if it uses its nuke twice in a row you're screwed, if it doesn't you may have a chance. :V
Speaking of luck, I won this fight basically by Flower Shot repeating TEN times while the mirror had silence status on it (thank you, extra attack). I don't think I could have managed it without that. So yeah.
I think this mirror might be the hardest boss in the whole game, even the Strengthen Final Boss is not that hard. Where else could you find an enemy with super-high defence, super-high damage and no elemental vulnerabilities whatsoever (and it's not even NEUTRAL like the final boss, it RESISTS everything).
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I think this mirror might be the hardest boss in the whole game, even the Strengthen Final Boss is not that hard. Where else could you find an enemy with super-high defence, super-high damage and no elemental vulnerabilities whatsoever (and it's not even NEUTRAL like the final boss, it RESISTS everything).
Those emerald nuts at 8F and 9F extra area has something to say, that god damn high DEF and MND (somehow only some characters' DEF and MND ignoring skill works, while some doesn't, might be a bug), if this strengthen mirror boss has that kind of DEF and MND along with those 16F extra nut eater's SPD. :ohdear:
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Those emerald nuts at 8F and 9F extra area has something to say, that god damn high DEF and MND (somehow only some characters' DEF and MND ignoring skill works, while some doesn't, might be a bug), if this strengthen mirror boss has that kind of DEF and MND along with those 16F extra nut eater's SPD. :ohdear:
It's probably a bug but I just interpret those Nuts as immune to all Magic damage. But they sure are annoying as hell. I usually end up just poisoning them then having someone do the 1 damage needed to kill them, if Eiki is out of MP / back in Gensokyo.
In my experience, once it reaches around 50% HP, its nukes get way, way more powerful. Before that they are not that dangerous and Reimu with barrier and healing can neutralize them.
You really need to rush to kill it once it gets past this point, but because it's so hard to damage, it becomes a serious problem. You really need luck with this one, if it uses its nuke twice in a row you're screwed, if it doesn't you may have a chance. :V
Speaking of luck, I won this fight basically by Flower Shot repeating TEN times while the mirror had silence status on it (thank you, extra attack). I don't think I could have managed it without that. So yeah.
I'm likely going to just return to exploring the extra areas. I can sort of grind as I go kind of thing, since my main reason for wanting to beat the 20F Strengthen Bosses was to get to fight Staring Igamaruji, which was to get Renko, which was to get Maribel, so I can get past the rock that needed all 48 characters.
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Those emerald nuts at 8F and 9F extra area has something to say, that god damn high DEF and MND (somehow only some characters' DEF and MND ignoring skill works, while some doesn't, might be a bug), if this strengthen mirror boss has that kind of DEF and MND along with those 16F extra nut eater's SPD. :ohdear:
They're not really that high, -50% debuff against +100% buffs makes them pretty vulnerable, Yuuka did around 200k damage to everyone per Beauty of Nature. And they don't do that much damage. Still, those cookies are definitely the hardest of the 4 extra bosses, pretty much because the other three are just trivial. Well, the 16F one seems hard until you realise that he gets weaker with less crystals alive and you can rush-nuke them (Flan's Laevateinn + Marisa's Master Spark were enough to wipe every crystal except the fire one, and the fire one is the least troublesome one since it has fairly low defense and it just does damage and nothing else), making him very very easy
.
This is far, far lower than mirror's DEF/MND, since even -50% defense debuffs against +100% attack buffs are not guaranteed to pierce their defence.[/s]
Oh, you're about the regular enemies. I don't know, Sakuya murders them alright. The nut eaters are a pain, I employed super-over-speeded Renko (Maintenance is awesome) just to Galaxy Stop them to hell :V
And the mirror isn't very fast (at least something that's not totally ridiculous about this boss), the magatama, however, is, and it regens, but the regen is weak and it's vulnerable to dark *insert Flandre laugh*
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Ya, I know Sakuya and Eiki works, I was shocked that my Monk sub class Suika and Yuugi used the DEF ignoring skill and did 0 damage, I mean they had at least 98k ATK. :V
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Ya, I know Sakuya and Eiki works, I was shocked that my Monk sub class Suika and Yuugi used the DEF ignoring skill and did 0 damage, I mean they had at least 98k ATK. :V
I just tried it, it did 0 damage too.
It's a Nature skill, they have a star resistance there, maybe they are just COMPLETELY immune to nature? While it does pierce DEF/MND, it doesn't pierce affinity, so just maybe that's the reason :V
Same goes for physical, they also have a star resist and every other element deals at least SOME damage, but nature and physical always deal 0.
Oh wait, no, physical-elemental Misdirection still does some (a very low amount, but still) damage, so maybe it's just nature.
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I just tried it, it did 0 damage too.
It's a Nature skill, they have a star resistance there, maybe they are just COMPLETELY immune to nature? While it does pierce DEF/MND, it doesn't pierce affinity, so just maybe that's the reason :V
Same goes for physical, they also have a star resist and every other element deals at least SOME damage, but nature and physical always deal 0.
Oh wait, no, physical-elemental Misdirection still does some (a very low amount, but still) damage, so maybe it's just nature.
Looks like 98k ATK stat is not enough to cover a star resist for those Nuts. :ohdear:
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Looks like 98k ATK stat is not enough to cover a star resist for those Nuts. :ohdear:
If they have some kind of -1 resist which just nullifies all damage, no amount of ATK may be enough :V
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If they have some kind of -1 resist which just nullifies all damage, no amount of ATK may be enough :V
Just tested again, needed like 50% ATK buff and some DEF debuff on them to do decent damage, damn these Nuts are tough. :o
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So, can someone tell me how I can get past this boulder on F17, to get to that boss which is possibly
one of the 3 bosses to get Renko
?
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/6223/y1s3.png
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So, can someone tell me how I can get past this boulder on F17, to get to that boss which is possibly one of the 3 bosses to get Renko
?
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/6223/y1s3.png
You need to beat 6 strengthen bosses.
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For some reason i cannot reach the stairs in the 5F level. I have defeated the Siren, but 3 explanation points are blocking my way.
Someone help me please :(
(I know you guys already at higher floors but i started playing just recently)
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For some reason i cannot reach the stairs in the 5F level. I have defeated the Siren, but 3 explanation points are blocking my way.
Someone help me please :(
(I know you guys already at higher floors but i started playing just recently)
Did you recruit Minoriko yet? Because you need her to bypass a certain barrier on that floor.
-
Has someone found 12 Stones Of Awakening? I only found 3. Sorry for bad English, I'm Argentinian :3
-
For some reason i cannot reach the stairs in the 5F level. I have defeated the Siren, but 3 explanation points are blocking my way.
Someone help me please :(
(I know you guys already at higher floors but i started playing just recently)
You have to start Satori's quest and kill the boss on 5F, it's an event that involves Rin. After defeating it you can go through those explanation points, I know it because it happened to me.
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You have to start Satori's quest and kill the boss on 5F, it's an event that involves Rin. After defeating it you can go through those explanation points, I know it because it happened to me.
Thanks for helping me! ^.^
There is just one little problem left. I have no event left in 5F, and i cant find Satori anywhere. But i remember that i had a Rin-event in the past, in previous floors. :(
Did you recruit Minoriko yet? Because you need her to bypass a certain barrier on that floor.
I think i already recuited every possible character up to 4F including Minoriko, also explored the whole level except the part where the stairs, which i cannot reach.
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Has someone found 12 Stones Of Awakening? I only found 3. Sorry for bad English, I'm Argentinian :3
They're not hard to miss at all, but you can get some of them only from the extra areas, which (I'm pretty sure) require you to beat the final boss. If you have beaten the game and have access to the extra areas and have only 3 stones in total, I'd suggest going back to collect all the treasures you missed ;)
Unless of course you mean you have missed 3 and have the other 10. Then I'd say beat the final boss and start looking at the extra areas.
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Ten can be found before the final boss, the last two are in the extra areas, on 11F and 10F, IIRC.
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Thanks for helping me! ^.^
There is just one little problem left. I have no event left in 5F, and i cant find Satori anywhere. But i remember that i had a Rin-event in the past, in previous floors.
There are some stairs that lead to section in 4F with an event with Satori in it, it starts the events of recruiting Satori, Rin and Utsuho. Later, a boss event on 5F and 6F, which involve Rin and Utsuho respectively. Defeating the 5F boss let's you move on to the rest of the floor.
Ten can be found before the final boss, the last two are in the extra areas, on 11F and 10F, IIRC.
I've already defeated the final boss, and I've found a stone of awakening on the extra area of 11F, I've got another question, how do I go through the rock on 11F extra area that blocks the way to the rest of the floor.
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There's a blue switch in the southwest. Flip that and you'll be able to get back the rock.
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Ten can be found before the final boss, the last two are in the extra areas, on 11F and 10F, IIRC.
So, that means that the Jewel of Greater Awakening is accessible now, which would allow for everyone to have a subclass to work with.
Does anyone have said item already?
Also, although this is kinda unrelated, is anyone going to finish putting in the data for the level up rate of the remaining characters? (I can name Chen, Nitori, and Parsee as characters that don't even have numbers listed in that area, and that's just on the first page of recruitable characters.) I figure that I should point that out, since we have had plenty of time to find out about said rates and all...
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I have the Jewel of Greater Awakening. SUBCLASSES FOR EVERYONE!
Although, it seems as if what it essentially does is make it so that you don't use up Stones when you give out subclasses. This actually means that resetting someone will actually give you back Stones you never used, which... just means you'll have a steadily increasing Stone supply if you reset and switch out subclasses often. ^^;
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Found two more 10F extra 11F (I was more interested in getting Eirin/Reisen and go through the stairs).
Now, I've found 5 of 12. Someone remembers in which floors have you found Stones of Awakening?
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Also, although this is kinda unrelated, is anyone going to finish putting in the data for the level up rate of the remaining characters? (I can name Chen, Nitori, and Parsee as characters that don't even have numbers listed in that area, and that's just on the first page of recruitable characters.) I figure that I should point that out, since we have had plenty of time to find out about said rates and all...
I've never known how level up rates were calculated and never bothered to figure it out since it didn't matter to me. To reiterate from an earlier discussion about LoT1, I honestly think caring about level up rates is bogus in a game where you grind so much. Although LoT2 was much better about it, there was still some grinding involved.
That said though, I'm pretty sure the level up rates were taken from the Japanese wiki.
-
I, too, have the jewel of greater awakening. After you get all 12 stones, when you give a subclass to someone, the number of stones you have left just stops decreasing, which is amazing.
Also, about the grinding topic... Well, if you make a balanced team and learn well its strategy, I can assure you, you can complete the main storyline with no grinding that is worth mentioning in a jRPG that is hard, with few exceptions, like Memorized Knowledge in which you need a character to keep inflicting Shock on it, or you can just use Mokou or Kasen
. I'm pretty sure Atlus has made some very good jRPGs in which you need more grinding than that. But then, the grinding in LoT1 is just unbearable. After total 230+ hours of playing that game, I'll give it that.
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This actually means that resetting someone will actually give you back Stones you never used, which... just means you'll have a steadily increasing Stone supply if you reset and switch out subclasses often. ^^;
Not really, it'll stop increasing once it hits 12.
But then, the grinding in LoT1 is just unbearable.
Eh, I didn't grind at all until the final boss AFAIR. Well, I might have, but it was minimal enough that I don't even remember it.
Same goes for LoT 2. Actually, after I got Yuuka I just breezed through the rest of the game until the extra part obviously. She pretty much pwned every single boss by herself. I mean, my tactic of beating the Dragon/Azure Giant/Yuyuko/Taur Magician/20F mirror/magatama - flower shot, flower shot, flower shot, flower shot (repeat as many times as needed), it dies :V The Final Boss is pretty similar, but it's Hexer's defence debuff instead of flower shot.
What IS (well, was) unbearable is grinding for Iron to make Kusanagi in GoS.
Also, Losing is Fun
, and by grinding you're avoiding that, that's no good. Barely winning by flawless strategy/luck is very awesome. Most midgame bosses are like that. Sadly, that doesn't last for long. :V
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I'm going to concede a little bit in that level up rates matter more in LoT2 since faster levels means more skill points you can spend earlier. That said though, I still think its not enough to actually take level up rates into consideration when forming a team.
Been exploring the extra areas and I'm not excited about 14F extra area having holes. It doesn't seem like its going to get complicated but I never really liked the gimmick.
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Been exploring the extra areas and I'm not excited about 14F extra area having holes. It doesn't seem like its going to get complicated but I never really liked the gimmick.
I find holes better than needing the correct temperature one, less thinking. :V
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In lot1 I remember grinding for 18F (lv90) and 20F (lv120) bosses but the latter was faster and more rewarding, forgot about post-game I only did it once and I won't do it again.
In lot2 since I got slow level up rate characters I grinded until everyone in my party reach the recommended level but the kill streak system keep it entertaining.
I wouldn't play lot1 again because it lacks level down and bonus stats reset.
The temperature system of 13-14F is fun ! I took a piece of paper and barely drew the map with orbs and barriers while enjoying the bgm (which sadly reset after every random encounter).
14F Extra is just boring there are holes and you just get into every of them until the map is complete.
It's just tedious.
Also something extremely annoying is when you have to go back to normal 14F and set a certain temperature to make an orb spawn, how are we supposed to discover that (thanks to the guy here -though I don't remember who and am actually to lazy to check- saying he got his answer on jp bbs I had to check there too since jp wiki is/was not updated), next spoiler telling you which ?C are needed it might helps.
14F 72?C
15F 54?C
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Also something extremely annoying is when you have to go back to normal 14F and set a certain temperature to make an orb spawn, how are we supposed to discover that (thanks to the guy here -though I don't remember who and am actually to lazy to check- saying he got his answer on jp bbs I had to check there too since jp wiki is/was not updated), next spoiler telling you which ?C are needed it might helps.
14F 72?C
15F 54?C
That would be me (it's not a direct answer from the link to the forum on jap wiki, but it did allow me to confirm my thought was correct) and IIRC it's just the 2 orbs near the 14F center-west checkpoint not the temperature (somehow can't get it to work again in 1.203 and that annoying 14F extra checkpoint disappearing bug when you reset the floor's temperature got fixed too, someone else will have to check it).
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https://www.mediafire.com/?z8s0dzkh8s0nw8k
All images are in there, extracted by Qaz from patch 1.151 (it still has Renko and Maribel with full and small portraits)
Thanks, m8
Here's the full thing if anyone wants.
(http://www.mediafire.com/download/5pnxoh24gv504rb/LoT2+CharaGraph+for+LoT1.rar)
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Thanks, m8
Here's the full thing if anyone wants.
(http://www.mediafire.com/download/5pnxoh24gv504rb/LoT2+CharaGraph+for+LoT1.rar)
I guess I should consider remaking my LoT1 CharaGraph using LoT2 art myself.
I just now realized that all of LoT1 characters have returned in LoT2.
Edit: Phew, that took awhile. Anyways, the reason why I didn't just use yours is that a lot of the characters were cut off by the stats on the right side of the screen in the status window. That and I tend to be very particular about how I want things to look.
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Is there already an English patch for LoT2? I don't really want to start playing it if I can't read anything.
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Is there already an English patch for LoT2? I don't really want to start playing it if I can't read anything.
You can follow http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html).
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Yo, everyone. If anyone cares about level up rates info for the remaining characters from the JP wiki and is too lazy to look there themselves, well... (I'm putting everything under a spoiler tag for the sake of spoilers...)
Chen: 42
Nitori: 53
Parsee: 54
Wriggle: 52
Kaguya: 71
Mokou: 61
Nazrin: 60
Hina: 51
Orin: 58
Satori: 68
Yuugi: 64
Suika: 69
Kanako: 69
Tenshi: 62
Yuyuko: 64
Yukari: 67
Eiki: 60
Renko and Maribel are not listed at this time...
There you go.
Note that if this info is inaccurate for any reason, then it isn't my fault that it is so. Blame the JP wiki for being out of date.
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*sigh* So, I am an idiot for forgetting(If it was mentioned) or not knowing that the Strengthened
Golden Orb of Reverse Time
, or any of them have now full resistance to Death... Never again try to use instant death on bosses... Lesson learned...
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*sigh* So, I am an idiot for forgetting(If it was mentioned) or not knowing that the Strengthened Golden Orb of Reverse Time
, or any of them have now full resistance to Death... Never again try to use instant death on bosses... Lesson learned...
They're bosses so I just assume they're always immune to Death. Pretty sure it was never mentioned whether or not they were vulnerable to Death.
I really shouldn't have been able to beat them the way I did.
I forgot that the Golden Orb of Reverse Time and Golden Orb of Canopy both explode for ~80k damage when they're the only orbs left. Completely lucked out with Aya evading the blast.
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I forgot that the Golden Orb of Reverse Time and Golden Orb of Canopy both explode for ~80k damage when they're the only orbs left. Completely lucked out with Aya evading the blast.
Explosion is based on their current hp, after the first explosion, they are left with 1 hp, if they use explosion again without any form of gaining hp, they will do 1 damage (this also applies for any other mobs you meet throughout the game).
-
They're bosses so I just assume they're always immune to Death. Pretty sure it was never mentioned whether or not they were vulnerable to Death.
Bad assuming then, one of the normal ones was not. The first boss and one of these bees weren't too resistant to death.
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Bad assuming then, one of the normal ones was not. The first boss and one of these bees weren't too resistant to death.
Those two were some of the first bosses so it didn't matter that they weren't immune to Death. Even their Strengthen versions weren't that hard to require capitalizing it, though I certainly abused it for the Evil Nut Eater. If there was some challenging boss (*coughs* Shredding Amneseri) that wasn't immune to Death and I assumed so, then it would have been a bad assumption.
It was the Paralyzing Wasp not the Poisoning Wasp, which is why the Strengthen version of the paralyzing one is a joke compared to the poisoning one.
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You just said what I tried to say in my previous post. lol.
That aside, what's with that new update on the official site? There is no new patch, but... Something about a trial of a "幻想紀行" on Comiket 85...
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You just said what I tried to say in my previous post. lol.
That aside, what's with that new update on the official site? There is no new patch, but... Something about a trial of a "幻想紀行" on Comiket 85...
It's the trial for another game they are making with CUBE TYPE http://www.cubetype.com/ (it's the down right image on the top 4 images). It's an action RPG that looks to be more like Youyou Kengeki Musou (dat 3D Youmu game (which btw, the 3D Remilia demo they made for C84 was amazing, I'm looking forward to the full version)).
I think the only thing they are selling for LoT2 is just the full version of it, with the most recent patch (the Append Disk, as they call it)
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You just said what I tried to say in my previous post. lol.
Mind if I ask you to clarify? I'm having trouble understanding your thought process.
(If you don't feel like it or whatever, just ignore this.)
Sequence of events as I understand it:
- You mentioned bosses and whether or not some were immune Death.
- I said I assumed they were all immune.
- You said that it was a bad assumption, since there were some bosses that weren't immune.
- I said that its not a bad assumption because those bosses weren't particularly difficult.
So what exactly were you trying to say in your previous post(s)? None of them sound like what my posts are saying O.O
I think the only thing they are selling for LoT2 is just the full version of it, with the most recent patch (the Append Disk, as they call it)
Do you think its safe to assume that 1.203 is the final patch unless they make a "Plus Disk" for LoT2 then?
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Hello, it's been a while and due to being busy with other stuff I haven't looked much into LoT2 at all yet.
Is the game completely translated already?
There's no link to an english patch on the wiki page, so I guess it isn't? Is it still being worked on?
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Hello, it's been a while and due to being busy with other stuff I haven't looked much into LoT2 at all yet.
Is the game completely translated already?
There's no link to an english patch on the wiki page, so I guess it isn't? Is it still being worked on?
The English patch is still currently being worked on, though there is a partial patch that has most things translated except the story and a few new items and events from the newest patch.
You can follow the translation thread here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html)
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So, I'm trying to get Achievement 38, the one which requires you to defeat all FOEs before one respawns. I've defeated the FOEs: 1 on Floor 2, 1 on Floor 3, 1 on Floor 4, 2 on Floor 5(one of them is 8 eyed serpent which is also on Floor 4), 1 on floor 7, 1 on floor 8, 2 on floor 10, 1 on floor 15 and 1 on floor 16. Am I missing something here or must I find someway to fight
Yuugi
as well...?
-
No, you're missing one on 17F.
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By the way is this ( http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6885/g74y.png ) the complete map for the 9F, including the extra area? Because looking at the files on the data folder, it seems there is more walkable area, however it looks like it is inaccessible... At least directly. So I'm asking this to confirm. Is it accessible now and I've missed something or is what I've found possibly for a later patch?
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By the way is this ( http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6885/g74y.png ) the complete map for the 9F, including the extra area? Because looking at the files on the data folder, it seems there is more walkable area, however it looks like it is inaccessible... At least directly. So I'm asking this to confirm. Is it accessible now and I've missed something or is what I've found possibly for a later patch?
It's not accessible right now. They might have plans with it for a later patch, or might decide to do nothing with it (kinda like the 22F that was in the txt dump in 1.151, but got dumped in the most recent patch)
Do you think its safe to assume that 1.203 is the final patch unless they make a "Plus Disk" for LoT2 then?
They will maybe get a few more for bug fixes? but in terms of big content patches, I don't think we'll be seeing another one, at least, not in the next few months, unless they announce something on their website (because they are also working on another game, so they have to concentrate their efforts there too)
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Patches 1.2+ are the plus disk of LoT2, as kuilfrayt said. It is the "Append Disk". Only this time they were wise enough to make a free patch for the people who bought the game.
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No, it isn't.
The developers planned to release a Append Disk for Comiket 85, but they didn't have enough time to make one after releasing a big-content patch in December.
So they tried to make a trial version of the Append Disk for Comiket, but they didn't have enough time to make that, too.
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Isn't Great Catastrophe supposed to target the MP of every member of your party and not just the frontline? Staring Igmaruji just used it and it only took away MP from the frontline...
Edit: Same thing happened with Great Calamity but with HP. Did they change this in the most recent patch? 0.0
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No, it isn't.
The developers planned to release a Append Disk for Comiket 85, but they didn't have enough time to make one after releasing a big-content patch in December.
So they tried to make a trial version of the Append Disk for Comiket, but they didn't have enough time to make that, too.
Oh my, I guess I read that wrong then. So we should expect more content soon then
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Um... the final boss just dropped Orujasu Shamshir...
I'm going to try to reproduce it but I'm pretty sure he's not supposed to drop anything (Unless you happen to be fighting the Strengthen version which I wasn't).
It doesn't drop any items (other than those usual stat gems), the Godly Katana is actually added to your inventory after the first time you defeated the strengthen version.
That's what I thought, so I'm wondering how I randomly got another Orujasu Shamshir while fighting it. So far, I haven't been able to reproduce it but I'll keep trying. I needed more Stat gems anyway. I'll also take back what I said earlier about the final boss not dropping HP TP and MP gems. Seems like I was just unlucky.
I'm an idiot, the Guardian Statues of Heaven were the ones that dropped the Orujasu Shamshir.
Isn't Great Catastrophe supposed to target the MP of every member of your party and not just the frontline? Staring Igmaruji just used it and it only took away MP from the frontline...
Edit: Same thing happened with Great Calamity but with HP. Did they change this in the most recent patch? 0.0
It seems the moves the final boss uses are different than Great Catastrophe and Great Calamity. The version the final boss uses indeed targets everyone. The fact that the move wasn't translated should have clued me into the fact that it might be a new move.
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It seems the moves the final boss uses are different than Great Catastrophe and Great Calamity. The version the final boss uses indeed targets everyone. The fact that the move wasn't translated should have clued me into the fact that it might be a new move.
Then, the version of those attacks that every other boss has been using is supposed to only target the entire frontline, and not the people in reserve?
That sounds like a real lightening up on the difficulty in that case, not that I'm complaining.
Edit: Since I just found out that leaving a table in a set of quotes makes it impossible to quote properly, and I have two things to say. One is this information:
Level up Rates for the Characters that don't have them listed on the Touhou wiki, but are listed in the JP wiki...
Chen: 42
Nitori: 53
Parsee: 54
Wriggle: 52
Kaguya: 71
Mokou: 61
Nazrin: 60
Hina: 51
Orin: 58
Satori: 68
Yuugi: 64
Suika: 69
Kanako: 69
Tenshi: 62
Yuyuko: 64
Yukari: 67
Eiki: 60
Renko and Maribel are not listed at this time...
Subclass Growth Rate Boosts
| HP | ATK | MAG | DEF | MND | SPD | MP | TP |
| Guardian | 0.8 | - | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | 4 |
| Monk | - | - | - | - | - | 0.6 | - | 6 |
| Warrior | 0.6 | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | 4 |
| Sorcerer | - | - | 0.4 | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | 2 |
| Healer | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | - |
| Enhancer | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | - |
| Hexer | - | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | 3 | 3 |
| Toxicologist | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | - | 2 | 4 |
| Magician | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | 0.2 | 6 | - |
| Pharmacologist | 0.8 | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | 4 |
| Strategist | - | - | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | 2 | 4 |
| Gambler | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | - |
| Diva | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | 1.0 | - | 4 |
| Transcendant | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | - | - |
And two is a question. How do I input any of this info into the LoT2 Touhou wiki?
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Then, the version of those attacks that every other boss has been using is supposed to only target the entire frontline, and not the people in reserve?
That sounds like a real lightening up on the difficulty in that case, not that I'm complaining.
Edit: Since I just found out that leaving a table in a set of quotes makes it impossible to quote properly, and I have two things to say. One is this information:
Level up Rates for the Characters that don't have them listed on the Touhou wiki, but are listed in the JP wiki...
Subclass Growth Rate Boosts
And two is a question. How do I input any of this info into the LoT2 Touhou wiki?
Putting the individual level rates for the characters should be really easy and I could (and probably should) go do it right now.
For the subclass information, that should go on the subclasses page but I have no idea how to format it...
Edit: I wish I knew the rating scale for level up difficulties. Might take longer than I expected, since I'm going to have to take note of everyone's level up difficulty value and make an educated guess at how they're ranked (F, E, D, C, B, A, S).
Edit2: Came up with a relatively arbitrary distribution of level up difficulty ranks. I'd like some input before I put these up on the wiki. I tried to make it somewhat like a bell curve.
S Rank A Rank B Rank C Rank
Chen 42 Hina Kagiyama 51 Parsee Mizuhashi 54 Alice Margatroid 59
Cirno 44 Hong Meiling 52 Reisen Udongein 56 Keine Kamishirasawa 59
Minoriko Aki 48 Reimu Hakurei 52 Rinnosuke Morichika 56 Aya Shameimaru 60
Mystia Lorelei 49 Rumia 52 Momiji Inubashiri 57 Eiki Shiki Yamaxanadu 60
Kogasa Tatara 50 Wriggle Nightbug 52 Maribel Hearn 57 Marisa Kirisame 60
Renko Usami 50 Nitori Kawashiro 53 Iku Nagae 58 Nazrin 60
Rin Kaenbyou 58 Sakuya Izayoi 60
Sanae Kochiya 58 Youmu Konpaku 60
Eirin Yagokoro 61
Fujiwara no Mokou 61
Kasen Ibaraki 61
Tenshi Hinanawi 62
D Rank E Rank F Rank
Komachi Onozuka 64 Satori Komeiji 68 Byakuren Hijiri 70
Yuugi Hoshiguma 64 Flandre Scarlet 69 Utsuho Reiuji 70
Yuyuko Saigyouji 64 Kanako Yasaka 69 Kaguya Houraisan 71
Ran Yakumo 67 Suika Ibuki 69 Patchouli Knowledge 71
Yukari Yakumo 67 Suwako Moriya 69
Yuuka Kazami 67 Remilia Scarlet 69
Looking at the list, I'm thinking that I could probably Bump Satori up to D rank to make it look more like a bell curve. Of course, I could just keep things as they are and wait until Renko and Maribel get their Level Up Difficulty calculated, since that could change some things. Never mind, my list was missing Yuuka.
Edit3: Does anyone know if characters in your party get more experience than characters left in Gensokyo? (Aside from obvious skill bonuses that affect experience gain.) I figure we could estimate Renko's and Maribel's
Level Up Difficulty by comparing them to the other characters.
Edit3.5: Never mind, I forgot that I can just compare them to other characters that have been left in Gensokyo. I've added them to the list with my estimate.
Edit4: Not really related but I just thought of a reason why I should care about Level Up Difficulty (at least in the context of LoT2). If you have a high Level Up Difficulty, each level has more impact on your overall stats. The whole point of characters like Cirno is that they get less stat gain per level but more levels to compensate. So if you're doing a Hardmode run where level caps matter, you should be playing with some of the slower leveling characters.
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I don't personally think that a bell shaped curve in level up rates is going to matter much...
But otherwise, go right ahead and throw that info in.
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I decided to run through all the characters and readjust their stat growths, affinities and their ratings, and resistances and their ratings.
While using the Level Unification and Level Down Character functions, I ran into this:
[attach=1]
Imagine my surprise when I thought Kasen somehow had a base ATK of 372. Turns out both functions are still buggy as they don't properly take away Skill Points and Level Up Bonuses at times.
I don't personally think that a bell shaped curve in level up rates is going to matter much...
But otherwise, go right ahead and throw that info in.
I just figured I'd stick to the standard. It was my understanding that most rating systems adhere to a bell curve. I'll likely end up making bell curves for stat growth ratings as well, after I finish adjusting them.
Edit: Just noticing that so far (I've done the first two character pages) everyone has been buffed for the most part. I particularly noticed that Cirno, while getting slightly debuffed in HP, had everything else buffed and 24 more base EVA. Looks like they're trying to make the baka more viable. However, due to affinity changes Cirno now has the worst weighted total affinity.
Ouch, Hina took a huge hit to her SPI affinity...
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I decided to run through all the characters and readjust their stat growths, affinities and their ratings, and resistances and their ratings.
While using the Level Unification and Level Down Character functions, I ran into this:
[attach=1]
Imagine my surprise when I thought Kasen somehow had a base ATK of 372. Turns out both functions are still buggy as they don't properly take away Skill Points and Level Up Bonuses at times.
I don't know if I would call this "buggy", but more "not made to work like that". The way I see it (and maybe that's just because I'm not great at programming), but having the program memorize every skill/bonus points you spend, in the order they are spent, might be too complex for the game. The way they could've done it would have been to reset your skill/bonus points allocation every time you level down a character, but that would get annoying after a while, the management in Hard Mode would become way too long and bothersome in my opinion.
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Yeah, more or less you still get a minor bonus from overleveling via an extra few skill points and level up bonuses to allocate to stats. When it was bugged was when it was first introduced, and didn't calculate the numbers properly at all, making it so repeatedly unifying the party level up and down gave the characters infinitely increasing points to use >>
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I don't know if I would call this "buggy", but more "not made to work like that". The way I see it (and maybe that's just because I'm not great at programming), but having the program memorize every skill/bonus points you spend, in the order they are spent, might be too complex for the game. The way they could've done it would have been to reset your skill/bonus points allocation every time you level down a character, but that would get annoying after a while, the management in Hard Mode would become way too long and bothersome in my opinion.
I could see how challenging it would be for the program to work the way I imagined it.
I'm not exactly stellar in programming myself (evident by the fact that I hadn't considered the technical limitations the game might have).
It's not hard to fix the problem using in game methods, just bothersome to do so. I have to manually take away the level up bonuses and use the Magic Library's Skill Reset function (after the character's been leveled down to 1) to get the proper number of Skill Points. Doing this a few times already irks me but since I've started already, I'll follow through and finish the rest of the characters.
Not quite related but having a limited number of Tomes of Reincarnation is also a bother, since I suddenly remembered that status ups from the Magic Library affect a stat's growth rate.
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Not quite related but having a limited number of Tomes of Reincarnation is also a bother, since I suddenly remembered that status ups from the Magic Library affect a stat's growth rate.
I really wish there was a way to get some more, so we could try other group composition, and it would've been nice as well if they kept the boss rushes and the extra zone bosses to have other challenges after you're done with the game.
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I really wish there was a way to get some more, so we could try other group composition, and it would've been nice as well if they kept the boss rushes and the extra zone bosses to have other challenges after you're done with the game.
Wait, you mean they took those out?
There's a limited number of the item "Tome of Reincarnation"?
That's harsh, and ultimately quite silly. Couldn't they create a reusable item with the same function, like with the Stone of Awakening?
It would make things much easier in the long run...
Also, how in blazes is anyone going to get Maribel and Renko without those places?
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However, due to affinity changes Cirno now has the worst weighted total affinity.
Ouch, Hina took a huge hit to her SPI affinity...
I stand corrected. Flandre
took an even bigger hit to her SPI affinity and now has the absolute worst weighted total affinity at a measly 8.
Mainly directed at Wymar, but I'm going to have to raise the constant back up to 13 to account for this. Seems she has the same reduction to the constant even with the new affinities.
Wait, you mean they took those out?
Also, how in blazes is anyone going to get Maribel and Renko without those places?
Kuilfrayt meant that the boss rushes and the extra zone bosses don't respawn after being killed, not that they were taken out of the game completely.
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@jaxter: ...Since when did Magic Library levels affect the stat growth? It affects the multiplier, but not the actual growth value itself. Only gems, skills, certain equips, and subclasses do that.
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@jaxter: ...Since when did Magic Library levels affect the stat growth? It affects the multiplier, but not the actual growth value itself. Only gems, skills, certain equips, and subclasses do that.
Well derp, I incorrectly remembered the stat formulas T.T
In any case I finished going through and updating everything awhile ago. I'll need to do a once over, just to make sure I didn't make any silly arithmetic mistakes and to change the weighted totals to account for the new formula. I also need to go to the character talk page and update everyone's base stats, affinities and resistances. Then maybe figure out how to include this into the subclass page:
Subclass Growth Rate Boosts
| HP | ATK | MAG | DEF | MND | SPD | MP | TP |
| Guardian | 0.8 | - | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | 4 |
| Monk | - | - | - | - | - | 0.6 | - | 6 |
| Warrior | 0.6 | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | 4 |
| Sorcerer | - | - | 0.4 | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | 2 |
| Healer | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | - |
| Enhancer | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | - |
| Hexer | - | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | 3 | 3 |
| Toxicologist | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | - | 2 | 4 |
| Magician | - | - | - | - | 0.4 | 0.2 | 6 | - |
| Pharmacologist | 0.8 | - | - | - | 0.4 | - | 2 | 4 |
| Strategist | - | - | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | 2 | 4 |
| Gambler | - | 0.4 | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | - |
| Diva | 0.4 | - | - | - | - | 1.0 | - | 4 |
| Transcendant | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | 0.3 | - | - |
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I stand corrected. Flandre
took an even bigger hit to her SPI affinity and now has the absolute worst weighted total affinity at a measly 8.
I think that's to make it easier to activate Vampiric Wrath, although I still think that it's dumb to give that sort of skill to a glass cannon, though. If it wasn't for the fact that she already had six skills already, I would recommend that this skill be given to Remi instead of Flandre(I'd be tempted to swap out Adversity for it, despite the fact that you can inflict Heavy on yourself reliably with Curse of Vlad Tepes(note that Meiling can cure Poison and Paralysis with Healer, but not Heavy) to activate it without it affecting your fighting too much, as Remi is designed to take hits in the first place).
Kuilfrayt meant that the boss rushes and the extra zone bosses don't respawn after being killed, not that they were taken out of the game completely.
Oh, I see. That's a shame.
...to be honest, I wish that they would make said boss rushes respawnable, and add a new boss somewhere else that increases in level every time you beat it and it respawns, like **WINNER** from the first game, but with less "lol, you die because I feel like you die" sort of cheapness.
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Anyone got/know the track of the extra bosses fights?
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Hey guys, I got a question of sorts.
Remember when I stated this in a post?
Of course, this is coming from the same guy that would state things like "Why the hell does Cirno even have White Album, anyway?" and "Eirin's Hourai Elixir doesn't improve from leveling up why?"
, then go on to say something like "If only the game makers would have White Album give Cirno a offensive buff as well, so the spell can actually be useful..." or "Couldn't they give Hourai Elixir the power to revive people that improves in effectiveness from leveling up?"
, so...
Well, the truth is that I have several dozens of opinions and thought like this, but I'm worried that putting up such opinions(which would pretty much be a set of long winded rants with a LOT of nit picking in various places) would not be taken very well, due to the fact that I fear that it would be considered spam or something, which is why I haven't say much of anything in that direction.
So, my question is whether or not said thoughts can be posted here. That's all.
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White Album is (vaguely?) relevant in Team (9) setups. ...I guess. Actually, now that I look at her stats, at least after the latest rebalance, she's not irredeemably glassy. Huh. A defense build on her to make her not fall over while debuffing boss SPD actually wouldn't be a completely terrible idea, and with team (9) bonuses she could actually maybe be a passable tank.
Hourai Elixir being able to revive would be kind of ridiculous. Eirin would be OP if she could -revive- people. Anyway, it's not the only skill in the game that's pointless to level up, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing- although they probably should have made skills like that max at lv1, but whatever.
Anyway, as long as it's on-topic and you don't start clogging up the thread (e.g. posting about it over and over and over or anything else that's blatantly not-cool), I don't see why you wouldn't be able to talk about it.
I haven't played ThLaby2 in forever and I never beat it >>; I took a break at 13f and oops never went back
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...so, as long as it doesn't offend people, that it's about LoT2 and isn't stretched out across several posts, it's okay?
Well, that's good to hear. (Also, isn't Eirin and the Hourai Elixir
supposed to be put between spoilers? Figured that I should mention that...)
Anyway, I actually had a thought from that, and I figure that I should ask it as an opinion. Would having a mid-battle revival spell at all be considered a game breaker?
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Anyway, I actually had a thought from that, and I figure that I should ask it as an opinion. Would having a mid-battle revival spell at all be considered a game breaker?
Beyond broken unless there's sufficient drawbacks for the spell. Kind of like how Rinnosuke's World Shaking Military Rule in LoT1 takes away all his TP after use, making him dead weight on the frontline.
...so, as long as it doesn't offend people, that it's about LoT2 and isn't stretched out across several posts, it's okay?
Well, that's good to hear. (Also, isn't Eirin and the Hourai Elixir
supposed to be put between spoilers? Figured that I should mention that...)
Edit: I see no reason why we can't discuss grievances we have with the game, though to that end, I don't have many. I guess just keep the discussion ... civil (I know that's not the word I'm looking for but I can't think of a more appropriate one).
I just don't like how some skills seemingly have no benefit from leveling up. Aya's Advent Post spell has no benefits past the first level up. Eirin and the Hourai Elixir
is another example. Magic Filling from the Magician class is another example and is the most frustrating to me, since I use Magician so much.
The Healer's Prayer of Good Health spell also irritates me because of how it doesn't explain which addition ailments it can heal and at what levels. Though this can be solved through vigorous testing, which I'm not willing to do quite yet since I hardly ever use it anyway.
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Well, that's good to hear. (Also, isn't Eirin and the Hourai Elixir
supposed to be put between spoilers? Figured that I should mention that...)
Anyway, I actually had a thought from that, and I figure that I should ask it as an opinion. Would having a mid-battle revival spell at all be considered a game breaker?
I think I'll have to agree with Jaxter and Serela on this one. The game seems to be largely balanced around the 12 character party limit. Losses are the process of running out of characters over time until you have no way to keep going. Having a character that artificially ups that character limit by resurrecting people would have to be balanced around an enormous drawback or the bosses all being capable of insta-gibbing your entire front line.
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Beyond broken unless there's sufficient drawbacks for the spell. Kind of like how Rinnosuke's World Shaking Military Rule in LoT1 takes away all his TP after use, making him dead weight on the frontline.
If a drawback is required, then why not have the spell deduct some TP(for the sake of argument, maybe 7 or 8 TP per revival) from the receiver of the spell and just have it not work on the target if they don't have enough TP? That would limit how many times you can do so for any character, but still be useful for the sake of boss battles, which is where you would normally be in need of such a spell.
And personally, I didn't think that World Shaking Military Rule was balanced at all in the first game. I mean, for it's "once per battle" cost, it didn't even buff SPD(which would make it more useful), so...
Another thought: Would a spell that would do one of the following be considered OP:
1. Raise Elemental Resistance(eight elements means eight separate buffs, said spell doesn't have to raise all of them) by a percentage.
2. A buff that reduces damage from the next attack that the target receives.
3. A buff that give a HP regen for as long as it is maintained(like Magic Filling, but for HP).
Sorry if this is a lot to ask, guys. I really don't mean to pester like this...
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If a drawback is required, then why not have the spell deduct some TP(for the sake of argument, maybe 7 or 8 TP per revival) from the receiver of the spell and just have it not work on the target if they don't have enough TP? That would limit how many times you can do so for any character, but still be useful for the sake of boss battles, which is where you would normally be in need of such a spell.
And personally, I didn't think that World Shaking Military Rule was balanced at all in the first game. I mean, for it's "once per battle" cost, it didn't even buff SPD(which would make it more useful), so...
Another thought: Would a spell that would do one of the following be considered OP:
1. Raise Elemental Resistance(eight elements means eight separate buffs, said spell doesn't have to raise all of them) by a percentage.
2. A buff that reduces damage from the next attack that the target receives.
3. A buff that give a HP regen for as long as it is maintained(like Magic Filling, but for HP).
Sorry if this is a lot to ask, guys. I really don't mean to pester like this...
TP as a draw back in LoT2 is laughable (I'm just stating things bluntly. I have nothing against your ideas themselves). What you suggested isn't a drawback but a limitation. Just like all the other TP affecting spells, this would only limit how often you can use said effect.
Some examples of drawbacks:
Flandre
's stronger spell consume MP from everyone on the frontline as well as lowering the timebar of everyone else on the frontline. Not to mention that her strongest spell also debuffs the frontline in addition to the other drawbacks.
Renko
's buff spell consumes 33% HP from everyone on the frontline and empties her own timebar. And her offensive option lowers the timebar of everyone else on the frontline by 20%.
Maribel
's self buff consumes a ton of her HP even when its maxed.
I haven't personally used Rinnosuke in LoT1 but I can see that spell being used for 20F encounters as well as 30F encounters. It seems to be intended for clearing (Strong) trash and not for boss battles, which I think is absolutely stupid since boss battles are what you prepare for but I digress.
1. No, it would actually be pretty interesting but the game would have to be re balanced. (Its not game breaking but it is skewing things in the players favor a bit too much).
2. Also interesting since it could be the compliment to that one Phamacologist's spell. Practicality is an entirely different story though. I guess you can put it on a character thats a bit more on the frail side in the hopes that if / when they do get hit, the spell might save them.
3. Broken. Its not hard maintaining Magic Filling since that subclass typically goes on supports who should be built to take hits anyway and the same would apply should this exist.
Komachi is such a great tank because she can take pretty much any hit (save for the HP to 1 spell) and be self sufficient thanks to her innate HP regeneration. Since she's self sufficient (its what made Meiling such an all around great tank in LoT1), you can give her a subclass with spells to further aid the team.
I went with Healer obviously for even more HP regen and the subclass spells speak for themselves. I know some people give her a more offensive role with Monk, though since Komachi is fine without the 4% bonus from Monk and Healer, she could be any subclass.
Even if she gets hit with an HP to 1 spell, she can just use Prayer of Recovery on herself (with its amazing scaling) to be right back in shape for tanking. Now imagine Komachi with even more HP regen thanks to that HP regen spell.
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TP as a draw back in LoT2 is laughable (I'm just stating things bluntly. I have nothing against your ideas themselves). What you suggested isn't a drawback but a limitation. Just like all the other TP affecting spells, this would only limits how often you can use said effect.
Some examples of drawbacks:
Flandre
's stronger spell consume MP from everyone on the frontline as well as lowering the timebar of everyone else on the frontline. Not to mention that her strongest spell also debuffs the frontline in addition to the other drawbacks.
Renko
's buff spell consumes 33% HP from everyone on the frontline and empties her own timebar. And her offensive option lowers the timebar of everyone else on the frontline by 20%.
Maribel
's self buff consumes a ton of her HP even when its maxed.
So, HP cost from self or others, timebar depletion from others, MP cost from others, and debuffing self or others...
Let's see:
Raise Dead
MP cost: 20
Post use Gauge: 0%
Revives target ally with (SLv)% HP(cannot be affected by skills like Efficient Treatment). Revived ally timebar is set at 0%.
Other effects: Requires 3 TP from user and 7 TP from target ally to actually be able to take effect. Target ally's MP is set to 0.
Does that work, or is that still too broken?
1. No, it would actually be pretty interesting but the game would have to be re balanced. (Its not game breaking but it is skewing things in the players favor a bit too much).
I suppose that that would be very true, especially since said resistances would make all the difference on certain characters (Kaguya, Komachi, every fricking tank other than Komachi, etc.), and being able to buff that would probably make the game too easy.
As a aside, this was actually something I came up with as a way to make Sanae's Miracle Fruit spell card stand out more(adding a 15% buff to all elemental resistance at level 1, +3% per level up, 27% at max level). Something tells me that that's still way too much, though.
2. Also interesting since it could be the compliment to that one Phamacologist's spell. Practicality is an entirely different story though. I guess you can put it on a character thats a bit more on the frail side in the hopes that if / when they do get hit, the spell might save them.
Glad that this isn't considered as a game breaker. :)
And really, I thought of this precisely because I felt that the "Damage Boost" spell needed a counterpart in terms of defense. In fact, I could actually see this spell as part of the Pharmacologist subclass because of it(36% damage reduction at max level? Yes, please).
3. Broken. Its not hard maintaining Magic Filling since that subclass typically goes on supports who should be built to take hits anyway and the same would apply should this exist.
Well, normally I would try to say something to that, but...
Komachi is such a great tank because she can take hits and be self sufficient thanks to her innate regeneration. Since she's self sufficient, you can give her a subclass with spells to further aid the team (I went with Healer obviously for even more HP regen and the subclass spells speak for themselves. I know some people give her a more offensive role with Monk, though since Komachi is fine without the 4% bonus from Monk and Healer, she could be any subclass). Even if she gets hit with an HP to 1 spell, she can just use Prayer of Recovery on herself (with its amazing scaling) to be right back in shape for tanking. Now imagine Komachi with even more HP regen thanks to that HP regen spell.
...this example essentially shut that plan down flat. Sigh.
On an unrelated note(not to mention to change the subject), is Mystia's Mysterious Song spell card still bugged to not heal at all?
Also, why did they make Satori's spell card copying ability access them at Lv0 and not Lv1? I feel like they did so for the sole purpose of making her unable to use Aya's Guidepost for the Advent of the Divine Grandson spell card, as if it would break the game if they did let her copy it...
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I cut this out from my last post since I didn't realize you replied to it while I was editing it:
@ #2
Actually, scratch what I said about practicality. This would make switching in attackers a smaller risk, which kind of makes the game lose some of its appeal. I personally feel that the main attraction of the Labyrinth of Touhou games (and I guess by extension Etrian Odyssey games as well) is party management. How you go about handling various obstacles (in the form of bosses obviously) with your hand chosen roster of 12 is what makes the game fun.
This is why I started my synergy run of the game. In a normal play through of the game, I would stick to my chosen 12 (after most of the characters have been unlocked) for the rest of the game, rarely dropping characters once I've found my 12 (I ended up dropping Satori for Renko but I think that's different since Renko wasn't available until recently
).
With a synergy run, I'm forcing myself to play with a predetermined 12 through out the whole game, and learning how to make those 12 characters work for me is part of the fun. Which is why I want to finish Post game content soon with my main initial play through, so I can finish my synergy run, so I can start another new game with the rest of the characters I haven't ever tried even in LoT1.
Will be writing my thoughts on your response later Kirin, too busy with something right now to give your post the proper attention.
Edit:
So, HP cost from self or others, timebar depletion from others, MP cost from others, and debuffing self or others...
Let's see:
Raise Dead
MP cost: 20
Post use Gauge: 0%
Revives target ally with (SLv)% HP(cannot be affected by skills like Efficient Treatment). Revived ally timebar is set at 0%.
Other effects: Requires 3 TP from user and 7 TP from target ally to actually be able to take effect. Target ally's MP is set to 0.
Does that work, or is that still too broken?
Lets just get this out of the way:
The more I think about having a revival spell in this game, the more I'm reminded of my long winded explanation of why reducing the risk of switching in characters is bad. One could argue that you could do the same with Ran
and her buff spells and they would make a good point. Then again, the fact that you managed to get the damage reduction spell onto a squishy without the squishy dying is good decision making and should be rewarded. Clearly, I'm still on the fence about this.
Anyway, in regards to the proposed spell:
That all sounds great except LoT2 isn't like other RPGs where the dead is actually still on screen with their status and everything. It's great using TP values as a limitation but I think it'd be weird having to have another menu showing who's dead and their TP values. There's also the issue of access to this spell. If it's in a subclass (highly likely if it existed) whats to stop everyone from being this subclass (other than an arbitrary "Only one character can have this subclass" or something which completely breaks the standard for subclasses.
For the record, I think we're going a bit too in depth about a spell that's not even in the game.
On an unrelated note(not to mention to change the subject), is Mystia's Mysterious Song spell card still bugged to not heal at all?
Also, why did they make Satori's spell card copying ability access them at Lv0 and not Lv1? I feel like they did so for the sole purpose of making her unable to use Aya's Guidepost for the Advent of the Divine Grandson spell card, as if it would break the game if they did let her copy it...
No idea if Mysterious Song is bugged or not. Mystia is someone I haven't tried at all. I've said a lot about using different team compositions but LoT1 was pretty unforgiving when you pick... less than stellar characters. I didn't branch out too far because of this, aside from dropping Wriggle during post game and bringing in Kaguya for the amazing MND ignoring properties.
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that if Satori were to copy spells at Lv1, she would become just too good. Most spells are already great at just Lv1.
I see Satori being built five ways:
- As another ATK character
- As another MAG character
- As a support character kind of like Aya (focusing on HP, SPD and EVA, using affinities to mitigate damage should she happen to actually get hit)
- As a typical support character built to take hits
- As a composite character, raising both ATK and MAG
1, 2 and 3 are fine. 4 is probably not possible given her terrible defensive growth rates and 5 is the worse of both 1 and 2. You don't do nearly as much damage as a dedicated ATK / MAG character and you're beyond squishy. I guess if you're copying composite spells, that might be a different story but...meh.
I personally picked 5 for some reason, thinking that I could actually raise two stats to be relevant. Looking back on it, I would probably raise her as an ATK character so she can copy Eiki's Last Judgement Spell
effectively.
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Lets just get this out of the way:
The more I think about having a revival spell in this game, the more I'm reminded of my long winded explanation of why reducing the risk of switching in characters is bad. One could argue that you could do the same with Ran
and her buff spells and they would make a good point. Then again, the fact that you managed to get the damage reduction spell onto a squishy without the squishy dying is good decision making and should be rewarded. Clearly, I'm still on the fence about this.
No surprise there.
Anyway, in regards to the proposed spell:
That all sounds great except LoT2 isn't like other RPGs where the dead is actually still on screen with their status and everything. It's great using TP values as a limitation but I think it'd be weird having to have another menu showing who's dead and their TP values. There's also the issue of access to this spell. If it's in a subclass (highly likely if it existed) whats to stop everyone from being this subclass (other than an arbitrary "Only one character can have this subclass" or something which completely breaks the standard for subclasses.
I would actually fix the first part by not having the dead not be on screen with said values presents. As for the second...
Rinnosuke would be a good character to hold on to such a spell, since he has no attack spells to start with. Still, the very existence of a revival spell period will flat out require a major overhaul in the balance in the game itself, so...
For the record, I think we're going a bit too in depth about a spell that's not even in the game.
True enough. I'll drop the subject altogether, then.
No idea if Mysterious Song is bugged or not. Mystia is someone I haven't tried at all. I've said a lot about using different team compositions but LoT1 was pretty unforgiving when you pick... less than stellar characters. I didn't branch out too far because of this, aside from dropping Wriggle during post game and bringing in Kaguya for the amazing MND ignoring properties.
Curious, since Mystia was considered as a great character to use in LoT1(even though you could only get her during the post game), so unless you simply didn't bother to use her in the first game either, then...
Actually, I have no idea how to complete that sentence without sounding like a jerk, so I won't.
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that if Satori were to copy spells at Lv1, she would become just too good. Most spells are already great at just Lv1.
...and what's the difference between Lv1 and Lv0 in terms of spell card levels? Besides, she can't raise their strength by raising said level either way, so it wouldn't change how it operates...
I see Satori being built five ways:
- As another ATK character
- As another MAG character
- As a support character kind of like Aya (focusing on HP, SPD and EVA, using affinities to mitigate damage should she happen to actually get hit)
- As a typical support character built to take hits
- As a composite character, raising both ATK and MAG
1, 2 and 3 are fine. 4 is probably not possible given her terrible defensive growth rates and 5 is the worse of both 1 and 2. You don't do nearly as much damage as a dedicated ATK / MAG character and you're beyond squishy. I guess if you're copying composite spells, that might be a different story but...meh.
I personally picked 5 for some reason, thinking that I could actually raise two stats to be relevant. Looking back on it, I would probably raise her as an ATK character so she can copy Eiki's Last Judgement Spell
effectively.
Okay, the fact that you turned Satori into a composite glass cannon isn't a bad thing. You just need to do the following to make her more effective:
1. Boost her SPD. This is important, as her ability to do anything depends on this stat as much as her ATK and MAG. You can use the Magic Library, or power her up with Stat Gems.
2. Get an effective switcher for her, as this can and will help her a lot(her Small MP Recovery skill is nothing to sneeze at). Rinnosuke and Orin would make for great choices in that department(the former reducing the time before she can act after switching her in to almost nothing, and the latter being good at pulling switches and attacking at the same time, and gives a boost to Satori's stats via the "Palace of the Earth Spirits Party" skill to boot)...
3. Pick up a subclass that boosts her SPD and/or offensive power. Monk works to let her hit faster than others via Dexterity Training, while Gambler becomes useful if you truly don't care about her defense. Then, of course, there's Transcendant. which is anything but a bad choice for boosting everything at once.
Overall, it's possible to do as you intend to do with her, it just takes a bit of effort to do so.
...and now I'm going to go and nap for a bit.
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Satori's Small MP Recovery and other mp recovery methods along with Yukari's Spiriting Away...
...how high can Satori's MP realistically get, again?
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Curious, since Mystia was considered as a great character to use in LoT1(even though you could only get her during the post game), so unless you simply didn't bother to use her in the first game either, then...
Actually, I have no idea how to complete that sentence without sounding like a jerk, so I won't.
I don't like speedsters like Chen, Aya, Orin (at least in LoT1) and Mystia really felt like just another speedster but with Mysterious Song as what defines her. She had Poison and Paralysis but since she wasn't good at either of them (not to mention Poison being bad in post game which is when you get her anyway), I didn't give her a try.
...and what's the difference between Lv1 and Lv0 in terms of spell card levels? Besides, she can't raise their strength by raising said level either way, so it wouldn't change how it operates...
The same difference between Lv1 and Lv2 spell cards. Lv 0 spell cards are just weaker (deals less damage, buffs less, debuffs less, etc etc).
Okay, the fact that you turned Satori into a composite glass cannon isn't a bad thing. You just need to do the following to make her more effective:
1. Boost her SPD. This is important, as her ability to do anything depends on this stat as much as her ATK and MAG. You can use the Magic Library, or power her up with Stat Gems.
2. Get an effective switcher for her, as this can and will help her a lot(her Small MP Recovery skill is nothing to sneeze at). Rinnosuke and Orin would make for great choices in that department(the former reducing the time before she can act after switching her in to almost nothing, and the latter being good at pulling switches and attacking at the same time, and gives a boost to Satori's stats via the "Palace of the Earth Spirits Party" skill to boot)...
3. Pick up a subclass that boosts her SPD and/or offensive power. Monk works to let her hit faster than others via Dexterity Training, while Gambler becomes useful if you truly don't care about her defense. Then, of course, there's Transcendant. which is anything but a bad choice for boosting everything at once.
Overall, it's possible to do as you intend to do with her, it just takes a bit of effort to do so.
...and now I'm going to go and nap for a bit.
I've done all of that and her damage still falls short for me to bother switching her in and out when I could do the same with a dedicated MAG / ATK user and do more damage. Towards the end of the game, she was just a second Reimu to me and allowed for a quick double cast of Hakurei Barrier / Exorcising Border. Once I had Byakuren
, Satori saw even less use. I still kept her since I had already invested quite a bit on her but when I got Renko
which can do what I wanted to do with Satori, she was dropped. When I do decide to use her again, she'll probably be another ATK user.
Satori's Small MP Recovery and other mp recovery methods along with Yukari's Spiriting Away...
...how high can Satori's MP realistically get, again?
Well into the 50s I believe with equipment and Magician. Don't forget though, they changed Yukari's Spiriting Away
spell so that its like Marisa's Master Spark. It has a base requirement but it consumes all MP.
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I don't like speedsters like Chen, Aya, Orin (at least in LoT1) and Mystia really felt like just another speedster but with Mysterious Song as what defines her. She had Poison and Paralysis but since she wasn't good at either of them (not to mention Poison being bad in post game which is when you get her anyway), I didn't give her a try.
Not very true; Mystia's Paralysis was stronger then most characters, and was all-target and significantly damaging to boot, making it glorious for random battles. Well, Midnight Chorus Master's par didn't last long, but that was in exchange for higher damage and no element. Mystia was a very powerful character in random battles.
In bosses, she was generally more limited to spamming Ill Starred Dive with it's low cooldown- this is a pretty good source of damage still, albiet not impressive, but still pretty respectable even compared to the good boss nukers of the game. So, you took her more for randoms, but she still worked out in bosses. By the time you hit postgame, Mysterious Song is practically useless, because anyone staying out for hits should already be nigh-immune to all those pesky status effects.
...it'd be valid to gambit trying to hit PAR on the slightly vulnerable bosses by spamming poisonous moth dance though, given that in postgame it lasts a -really- long time
But yeah, anyway, there's really no good reason to build Satori for ATK -and- MAG at the same time, because then both categories suffer in power too much. Now, it's fine to boost both library levels and switch between the builds as necessary... (although as you get close to endgame you'd probably want to pick one over the other since then the library starts getting costly, but with a solidified party of 12 by then you'd probably be able to choose one over the other)
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Not very true; Mystia's Paralysis was stronger then most characters, and was all-target and significantly damaging to boot, making it glorious for random battles. Well, Midnight Chorus Master's par didn't last long, but that was in exchange for higher damage and no element. Mystia was a very powerful character in random battles.
In bosses, she was generally more limited to spamming Ill Starred Dive with it's low cooldown- this is a pretty good source of damage still, albiet not impressive, but still pretty respectable even compared to the good boss nukers of the game. So, you took her more for randoms, but she still worked out in bosses. By the time you hit postgame, Mysterious Song is practically useless, because anyone staying out for hits should already be nigh-immune to all those pesky status effects.
...it'd be valid to gambit trying to hit PAR on the slightly vulnerable bosses by spamming poisonous moth dance though, given that in postgame it lasts a -really- long time
So you just confirmed that she's just another speedster with some utility in randoms. I'm glad I didn't even bother trying her in the first game. I couldn't care less how effective said character was in helping clear trash, and since you said that she's limited to spamming a short delay spell in boss battles, she's not for me. If I wanted to inflict PAR in boss battles, Renko and Suwako can do it so much better (Renko massively debuffing SPD and Suwako actually doing damage).
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I probably made her sound a little worse in boss battles then she is, but in the end she's nothing special in a boss either so w/e. But since I brought it up, she's inbetween the frail and durable side (mostly because overall durability of everyone goes up in plus) so in my experience she could reliably take one hit from non-nuke attacks, her naturally very high status resists aren't as special in Plus but still free up her equipment slots, and as long as she can stay out for a few casts Ill-Starred Dive is actually a pretty worthy damage option.
...but yeah, she's not all that special in bosses so for someone not caring about randoms she's pretty eh. I'd never take a character just for ease of clearing randoms, but she's still pretty good on bosses so it's not much of a sacrifice- but she can't actually cross the line into being notably good for bosses so yeah
In other news though, I wouldn't really agree Orin is a speedster, anyway; Cat's Walk is fast but you'd definitely only use it if you needed some switching micromanagement, and Blazing Wheel's "low delay" of 35% is only in comparison to how most good nukes in that game are 0% (or on a slow character). With the offense stats buffed up to get past composite attack's initial wall of enemy defenses, Blazing Wheel does pretty comparable damage to most nukes without any leaving her out to spam it, along with her having a decent MND stat and being able to easily sweep randoms with her speed and Blazing Wheel (and having a non-elemental multihit option when needed). Orin's a pretty solid character
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In other news though, I wouldn't really agree Orin is a speedster, anyway; Cat's Walk is fast but you'd definitely only use it if you needed some switching micromanagement, and Blazing Wheel's "low delay" of 35% is only in comparison to how most good nukes in that game are 0% (or on a slow character). With the offense stats buffed up to get past composite attack's initial wall of enemy defenses, Blazing Wheel does pretty comparable damage to most nukes without any leaving her out to spam it, along with her having a decent MND stat and being able to easily sweep randoms with her speed and Blazing Wheel (and having a non-elemental multihit option when needed). Orin's a pretty solid character
...and when comparing her LoT1 and LoT2 selves, it looks like Orin was rebalanced a bit...
Cat's Walk: Unchanged, save for becoming Physical element and the ability to inflict SHK, so it's been improved slightly?
Vengeful Cannibal Spirit: Composite attack that now only targets DEF,element type changed from Spirit to Dark, inflicts Terror instead of Poison, still inflicts a DEF debuff, and has a post use gauge of 60% instead of 32%. Definitely improved.
Needle Mountain of a Former Hell: A row attack instead of all attack, is still based on ATK, can now debuff DEF, is Physical element and now has a post use gauge of 52% instead of 30%. Improved, although I must ask if it still posesses the low DEF influence that it had in the first game.
Blazing Wheel: Composite attack that now only targets MND, is still Fire element, and now has a post use gauge of 0% instead of 35%. I can't really say if this is improved, nerfed, or just rebalanced. :wat:
As for whether she's supposed to be a speedster or not, I would flat out say that she feels more like what you said, Serela: a quick sweeper of floor trash with good options to use during boss fights, like Vengeful Cannibal Spirit. Also, as she has Extra Attack as a skill, that only makes her even better at sweeping, and since her ATK and MAG are good, she can take up any offensive subclass with spell cards in it and be able to make good use of them(Monk stands out as Dexterity Training should theoretically make Cat's Walk at 100% post use gauge, combined with Body Revitalization to make every Cat's Walk stronger, meaning that Orin could pull a Chen and slam an enemy repeatedly until her MP is all gone and then switch out).
Speaking of Chen, would her having Piercing Attack as a skill be a game breaker or something, because I see no reason for her to not have that skill(plus it would make her more different from Orin because of the fact that Chen's Flight of Idaten DPS would be able to become reliable against a single target, like oh say, Tenshi)...
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well technically I was talking about LoT1 Orin, but LoT2 doesn't seem tooooo different apart from some buffs and added switching support :V
I haven't used LoT2 orin yet so can't opinion about it. Extra Attack is just glorious though, with any amount of luck.
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Monk stands out as Dexterity Training should theoretically make Cat's Walk at 100% post use gauge
Dexterity Training doesn't work that way. It reduces timebar consumption by 10%, not reduces all timebar consumption by 1000. So instead of consuming 1200 and leaving Chen at 88% of her timebar (8800) after use, Flight of Idaten would consume 1080, leaving Chen with 89.20% of her timebar (8920). Dexterity Training is really only useful to people who have huge delay spells and would stay out after attacking (Kanako and Alice come to mind since they're beefier than the average MAG user and have fairly long delays. I'm sure you could come up with an example for an ATK user, but I tend to favour MAG attackers over ATK attackers so I can't name anyone off the top of my head).
Speaking of Chen, would her having Piercing Attack as a skill be a game breaker or something, because I see no reason for her to not have that skill(plus it would make her more different from Orin because of the fact that Chen's Flight of Idaten DPS would be able to become reliable against a single target, like oh say, Tenshi)...
I can't say since I've never used Chen seriously.
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Dexterity Training doesn't work that way. It reduces timebar consumption by 10%, not reduces all timebar consumption by 1000. So instead of consuming 1200 and leaving Chen at 88% of her timebar (8800) after use, Flight of Idaten would consume 1080, leaving Chen with 89.20% of her timebar (8920). Dexterity Training is really only useful to people who have huge delay spells and would stay out after attacking (Kanako and Alice come to mind since they're beefier than the average MAG user and have fairly long delays. I'm sure you could come up with an example for an ATK user, but I tend to favour MAG attackers over ATK attackers so I can't name anyone off the top of my head).
I... Oh. :o :o :o :o :o
That actually changes a lot about how I view that skill. (I'll presume that it only reduces an action's TBC(time bar consumption) by 1000 if said action's post use gauge is at 0%) I'm glad that you told me that.
Oh, and the two onis
would be good examples of ATK based attackers, just so you know.
On a related note, does anyone know if Suika's Oni Binding skill is working or not? And is there really such a thing as an Oni type of enemy?
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On a related note, does anyone know if Suika's Oni Binding skill is working or not? And is there really such a thing as an Oni type of enemy?
It does now yes. The PAR effect is around 1500 for normal enemies and around 2500 for Oni-type enemies (at lvl 3). You can check their type in the bestiary (oozes, sword devil, cats, demon ghosts are a few of them)
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Hello everyone! Let's just begin by saying that I really love the Touhou Labyrinths. (Though 2 is really doing it for me, I love all the polish in it so much).
I've recently started playing, so I really cannot put any input into all the wonderful postgame-y stuff going on around here, but- If any of you were wondering for some reason. Or never got the chance to find out. Because I really should have noticed earlier but only did in the middle of a boss fight.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2vx1rtd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxfgxj.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/xds104.jpg
Never put a First Aid Kit on Maintenance Nitori aaaaaaaa
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Needle Mountain of a Former Hell: A row attack instead of all attack, is still based on ATK, can now debuff DEF, is Physical element and now has a post use gauge of 52% instead of 30%. Improved, although I must ask if it still posesses the low DEF influence that it had in the first game.
It seems to - it deals very good damage even in post-game... Unlike Blazing Wheel which does nothing. :V
That actually changes a lot about how I view that skill. (I'll presume that it only reduces an action's TBC(time bar consumption) by 1000 if said action's post use gauge is at 0%) I'm glad that you told me that.
That's why I found Warrior to be better on Chen than Monk. Row attack strengthening is a very good thing for her. She doesn't need any speed, she's good at that already, while damage is very welcome.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2vx1rtd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxfgxj.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/xds104.jpg
LOL.
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It seems to - it deals very good damage even in post-game... Unlike Blazing Wheel which does nothing. :V
Then I can easily say that that spell has been buffed from the first game.
That's why I found Warrior to be better on Chen than Monk. Row attack strengthening is a very good thing for her. She doesn't need any speed, she's good at that already, while damage is very welcome.
And if we follow that line of logic and what you had said before, then Row Attack Strengthening would do well on Orin as well, for most of the same reasons.
I've recently started playing, so I really cannot put any input into all the wonderful postgame-y stuff going on around here, but- If any of you were wondering for some reason. Or never got the chance to find out. Because I really should have noticed earlier but only did in the middle of a boss fight.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2vx1rtd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxfgxj.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/xds104.jpg
Never put a First Aid Kit on Maintenance Nitori aaaaaaaa
what.
...anyway, which boss were you fighting when you took those pictures?
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On an unrelated note, would it be asking for too much for Meiling to be granted the Easygoing and Firm Defense skills? Considering that her specialty as a tank is the ability to self-heal and stuff, I wouldn't think that these skills would be bad for her to have...
And is her "The Gatekeeper that likes to Nap" skill still bugged, or does it actually increase her speed now?
Also, please tell me if my ranting becomes annoying, so that I'll know when to stop.
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Well how many of the good tanking skills do you expect her to have at once?
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http://i41.tinypic.com/2vx1rtd.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxfgxj.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/xds104.jpg
Never put a First Aid Kit on Maintenance Nitori aaaaaaaa
You're also on a dated version where they might have fixed this. I'd imagine that they fixed it so that you couldn't have negative HP recovery.
Edit: Just tested it and you indeed can't have negative HP recovery. It stops at 1 if you give her First Aid Kit. Here's the link to the latest patch (http://firestorage.jp/download/7814f97d45779c2c977b514c0db479fae8e926d8) and here's a link to the latest translation patch (https://www.mediafire.com/?w2drzv9vw855zzf)On an unrelated note, would it be asking for too much for Meiling to be granted the Easygoing and Firm Defense skills? Considering that her specialty as a tank is the ability to self-heal and stuff, I wouldn't think that these skills would be bad for her to have...
Yes because Meiling is fine as is. I'd say that her self heal could use a little buffing but she functions as she did in LoT1 otherwise.
And is her "The Gatekeeper that likes to Nap" skill still bugged, or does it actually increase her speed now?[/spoiler]
Also, please tell me if my ranting becomes annoying, so that I'll know when to stop.
Her skill actually increases SPD since patch 1.51 I noticed it when I was progressing in my synergy run.
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And if we follow that line of logic and what you had said before, then Row Attack Strengthening would do well on Orin as well, for most of the same reasons.
Yeah, but Orin benefits from Dexterity Training a bit more generally. And I used her mostly for Cat's Walk and with that you can't have enough speed. :3 SPAM THAT SHOCK. Plunging down enemy ATB from 9000 all the way to 500 is fun :V
Yes because Meiling is fine as is. I'd say that her self heal could use a little buffing but she functions as she did in LoT1 otherwise.
I found her a bit disappointing as a tank, but I guess that's because Komachi is so amazing. :V
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what.
...anyway, which boss were you fighting when you took those pictures?
That was one of my (more unsuccessful) attempts at 9F Tenshi
. You can see the top of her head poking out :V Partially failed because negative-HP Nitori falls over in one hit, and she happened to be my monk for the fight...
You're also on a dated version where they might have fixed this. I'd imagine that they fixed it so that you couldn't have negative HP recovery.
Edit: Just tested it and you indeed can't have negative HP recovery. It stops at 1 if you give her First Aid Kit. Here's the link to the latest patch and here's a link to the latest translation patch
Haha, oh I'm glad they fixed that. Yeah, I only found the higher level patch existed after I reached 10F. Figures.
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It seems to - it deals very good damage even in post-game... Unlike Blazing Wheel which does nothing. :V
That's why I found Warrior to be better on Chen than Monk. Row attack strengthening is a very good thing for her. She doesn't need any speed, she's good at that already, while damage is very welcome.
I can't imagine using anything but Gambler on Chen, it feels like it was made for her and Patchouli. Admittedly the increased MP costs kind of force her to use a God's Emblem because her base MP is so bad but she can usually get a buff + 3 Idatens which is all the time she should usually be in for anyways, and she regenerates it all crazy fast.
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I can't imagine using anything but Gambler on Chen, it feels like it was made for her and Patchouli. Admittedly the increased MP costs kind of force her to use a God's Emblem because her base MP is so bad but she can usually get a buff + 3 Idatens which is all the time she should usually be in for anyways, and she regenerates it all crazy fast.
Nah, Gambler is made for Flan. ;) I mean, you don't even care for increased MP cost since everything that is not a boss dies after one attack, and there's still enough MP to kill bosses, since you still just need a few attacks and it's dead. Well, if you invest heavily into Flan's attack, it should be enough to OHKO most bosses as well. :V
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Playing through LoT 1 again and I had something happen that I haven't experienced before:
I beat Maribel on 20F, unleashed the Bloodstained Seals on 1F, then went and beat Master Light Wings and Beast of Centaurea.
Then on 9F - Hibachi wasn't there.
Confused I went to 20F and Bloody Papa wasn't there either.
I can't break the final seal on 1F because not all smaller seals are broken yet.
I do have 2 stars, otherwise I wouldn't even be able to reach the places where they're supposed to be. Am I missing a condition for them to show up? I've played though the game several times already but this is the first time that the 3rd and 4th Bloodstaned Seal bosses didn't show up immediately after beating Maribel.
Edit: Beating Maribel again fixed the problem. The 3rd and 4th Bloodstained Seal bosses are probably set to not spawn before postgame and the trigger for them spawning seems to be defeating Maribel. In this playthrough I only unleashed the big seal on 1F that let's the other seals spawn after defeating Maribel.
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Quick question, guys. The bugs that are listed in the wiki under the Bugs section...
How many of those are still present in the current version of the game? I'm asking so that what is bugged and what isn't can be listed here, in the event that someone can get to updating the wiki with more current info.
Also, do the skills "Ability to Create Heaven" and "Ability to Create Earth" still require that Kanako and Suwako be on the rightmost and leftmost respectively instead of the the other way around? Or are those skills simply entirely nonfunctional?
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Quick question, guys. The bugs that are listed in the wiki under the Bugs section...
How many of those are still present in the current version of the game? I'm asking so that what is bugged and what isn't can be listed here, in the event that someone can get to updating the wiki with more current info.
Some are fixed, some are not. I've written notes and comments on them so feel free to edit it better and remove/add stuff from what I've wrote.
Also, do the skills "Ability to Create Heaven" and "Ability to Create Earth" still require that Kanako and Suwako be on the rightmost and leftmost respectively instead of the the other way around? Or are those skills simply entirely nonfunctional?
The spell are working with Suwako on the leftmost and Kanako on the rightmost
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Some are fixed, some are not. I've written notes and comments on them so feel free to edit it better and remove/add stuff from what I've wrote.
I'm doubting the fact that Meiling's
skill is bugged. I remember her being slower than other members when she didn't have the skill but faster when she was. This was of course in 1.151 and while its possible that they broke the skill again with the latest patch, I honestly doubt they did.
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I'm doubting the fact that Meiling's
skill is bugged. I remember her being slower than other members when she didn't have the skill but faster when she was. This was of course in 1.51 and while its possible that they broke the skill again with the latest patch, I honestly doubt they did.
Well I tested her speed when she alone, on another spot than first with 3 others, and with 3 members of the SDM, and it didn't change at all, but you can try any of them to see if they changed and I just messed up. I know that the jp wiki doesn't list them anymore, so maybe it's just my save that's corrupted.
Edit: Took some screenshots to show the bug: http://imgur.com/a/Yu822. The frame of reference is Marisa being the fastest and always going at the same speed (10278). You can see that Meiling SPD doesn't change at all no matter the circumstances (8892). So either my save is bugged, or they messed up.
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The spell are working with Suwako on the leftmost and Kanako on the rightmost
A. That kinda needed a spoiler.
B. Why?!? Just... why? It plays completely against their strengths and weaknesses(one's a tank, the other's a glass cannon, and the skills are asking to put the tank in the back and the glass cannon up front? WTF?), which make absolutely no sense at all.
If they could just fix the skills so that it activates when Kanako is up front and Suwako is in the back, then it would make more sense, yes?
Edit: I have a question about the download link to the 1.203 patch of LoT2. Just so we're clear, this link is just the patch, not the full game, yes?
2nd Edit: Checked on the main page, my compy only sees gibberish. Which link in there is to get to page where I can buy and download the game itself? (I'm presuming that I'll have to actually pay money for it, which isn't a problem for me.)
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To buy the game, go here:
http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852
There's a guide to buying from melonbooks.com somewhere. But it's pretty easy; you can sign up using your pixiv account, and the shopping cart is pretty straight forward.
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Passive skills only activate when the conditions are met when someone takes a turn, and is activated until someone takes a turn when the conditions are not met.
It works as expected when it modifies anything other than speed, but when it modifies speed, things might work strangely.
What I wrote back in http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15431.msg1022101.html#msg1022101
Marisa's MAlice cannon activates when someone in the front row receives a turn while the condition is satisfied.
It deactivates when someone in the front row receives a turn while the condition isn't satisfied.
Which results in bizarre behavior when you switch in or out the other character, or at the start of battle
I think it goes the same for all passive skills. Although only SPD-related skills really matter.
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To buy the game, go here:
http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852
There's a guide to buying from melonbooks.com somewhere. But it's pretty easy; you can sign up using your pixiv account, and the shopping cart is pretty straight forward.
Um...
I don't have a pixiv account, actually... Do I need it to use melonbooks.com?
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Passive skills only activate when the conditions are met when someone takes a turn, and is activated until someone takes a turn when the conditions are not met.
It works as expected when it modifies anything other than speed, but when it modifies speed, things might work strangely.
It did another try for Gatekeeper: http://imgur.com/a/3Unmw
This is at Youmu's second action turn, and the ATB value for Meiling with and without the skill is the same. It should've been activated since its when someone takes a turn, and only Meiling is suppose to have a SPD increase, but it doesn't seem to have done anything.
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Hey everyone. I've heard LoT2 is out. I tried downloading it. Running it, and It apparently failed. When I run it. A black window opens up, and in the next second it closes. What do I do now? Help Me, Eirin~
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What you downloaded is probably just a patch. The problem can be fixed by purchasing the game, available from the site mentioned below.
To buy the game, go here:
http://www.melonbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=IT0000165852
There's a guide to buying from melonbooks.com somewhere. But it's pretty easy; you can sign up using your pixiv account, and the shopping cart is pretty straight forward.
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Um...
I don't have a pixiv account, actually... Do I need it to use melonbooks.com?
Need to ask, because I really want to know the answer here...
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Need to ask, because I really want to know the answer here...
How to Melonbooks --> http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc
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How to Melonbooks --> http://imgur.com/a/qA3Dc
*checks and read instructions*
...thanks, kuilfrayt. Although I was unaware that it was possible to get a physical copy of the game(good to know that that is an option), I do appreciate the info.
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*checks and read instructions*
...thanks, kuilfrayt. Although I was unaware that it was possible to get a physical copy of the game(good to know that that is an option), I do appreciate the info.
It's a bit harder to get a physical copy from those website, since most of them don't ship overseas, I asked N-Forza to buy one for me when it came out at C84.
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Well, I thank you anyway for the assist, kuilfrayt.
On an unrelated note, I had a thought for how to add the stat boosts that the subclasses give into the description for ____'s Knowledge(the blank being the name of the subclass) skill that each subclass has. Take a look...
"While the user remains a Guardian, HP(0.8), TP(4), Defense(0.4), Mind(0.4), and Physical Affinity are slightly increased."
...and tell me what you think.
Edit: Also, has anyone ever tested Iku's "Heavenly Maiden's Blow" skill yet? Because its effect of making a 50% Mind debuff count as a 100% Mind debuff would make it a rather amazing skill, if situational, for dealing damage(giving Iku the Hexer subclass would be excellent to aid in that front, given that the spells in it draw on Magic for dealing damage)...
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Well, I thank you anyway for the assist, kuilfrayt.
On an unrelated note, I had a thought for how to add the stat boosts that the subclasses give into the description for ____'s Knowledge(the blank being the name of the subclass) skill that each subclass has. Take a look...
"While the user remains a Guardian, HP( 0.8 ), TP( 4 ), Defense( 0.4 ), Mind( 0.4 ), and Physical Affinity are slightly increased."
...and tell me what you think.
Edit: Also, has anyone ever tested Iku's "Heavenly Maiden's Blow" skill yet? Because its effect of making a 50% Mind debuff count as a 100% Mind debuff would make it a rather amazing skill, if situational, for dealing damage(giving Iku the Hexer subclass would be excellent to aid in that front, given that the spells in it draw on Magic for dealing damage)...
If you're talking about changing the description in game, I feel that leaving it as is would be the best. If you're talking about what to put on the wiki, I feel like the statement needs to be more clear that its affecting the growth values for stats that aren't TP and MP. And while we're at it, we might as well also calculate how much affinity is increased.
I haven't tested yet, and probably won't since I'm going to be building her as a support when I replay the game.
Unrelated but I've made zero progress into post game content for the last two weeks. School's being a pain.
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Blah, notifications fail me. And the site not updating with the new patches made me miss out on them. Oh well least I can enjoy them now. Too bad I lost my good file with my Hard Mode playthrough. :(
Oh well, starting anew. I think they might of buffed some of the earlier enemies, especially on the 5th floor since I noticed two of the enemies are dodging a lot more than they used to.
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Oh hey, so I was gone for some time due to studying, now I can finally play this (and NOR) again :3
So how is the translation's progress? Did my crappy images ever get worked on ?
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Guys, quick question about the Enhancer subclass.
Is the buff triggered by the "Heart of Compassion" skill able to benefit from the "Enhancer's Strengthening" skill? Because if it can, then that would be very good to know about(36% DEF and MND buff anytime you use a healing spell on someone? Yes, please.).
Also, has anyone bothered to test out Sanae's offensive spells, and how effective they are, if at all? I want to think that her "Moses's Miracle" spellcard can be made useful due to its ability to work well against High MND enemies(Row Attack Strengthening from Sorcerer could help in improving damage), while her "Night with Bright Guest Stars" spellcard can be useful due to the fact that it does not miss and that Sanae has a personal skill(Power of The Living God) that can increase its power a bit(I'll presume that said skill increases Spirit Damage the way that Magic Training increases Mystic damage: by the formula of (SLv*20)% more damage). She can also use the Sorcerer's spellcards("Penetrator"(Wind) and "Aspiration Purge"(Mystic)) to increase her elemental coverage in terms of damage.
And I just realized something about Sanae's healing spell: that it cure all ailments except Heavy. Does leveling it up allow it to cure Heavy at some point? Because it would be nice if it could, as that would make it Hourai Elixir's equal in curing ailments, but with a key difference between them(Sanae's heal can be strengthened using her stats, skill, and spellcard leveling, Eirin's heal stays at 50% HP in healing because it can't benefit from her stats, skills("Devoted Care" being the exception, boosting to 75% HP if curing an ailment), or spellcard leveling), giving Sanae a reason to boost her MAG stat(not to mention that her Miracle Fruits spellcard can help Sanae herself more if her stats are higher to begin with).
And as a thought about said character, if I could ask for one thing to add to her, it would be to give her back her "Nine Syllable Stabs" spellcard from the first game, but with the effect that the "Night with Bright Guest Stars" spellcard had in that same game: the ability to debuff the enemy's evasion stat. It would help her to stand out a bit better, if only to help others hit their mark more easily...
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I was too busy using Sanae for support to test her offense cards. (How long are we going to keep spoilering all the characters, is it really still necessary) In this game, Miracle Fruit is soooooo much better than the previous, and her heal is easier to use as well. Sanae's offense is perfectly suitable for randoms if you're so inclined just like every other character since you can switch boosted stats (although buffing up a slightly slower partner with Fruits is still perfectly viable in randoms so you don't have to buildswitch) but I doubt it's good enough to seriously consider on bosses over investing in her defenses. Maybe if the boss was weak to SPI? She's more important for supporting the team in bossfights... but you could maybe pull a good offensive Sanae against a SPI-weak boss.
Also, the enhancer skill increases a buff by 16% of it's original value multiplicatively, it doesn't add 16% on. Yeah, kind of disappointing. I'm not sure whether or not it effects that, because the difference wasn't large enough for me to have it as a high priority skill. The buffing heals are the best thing about the class, followed by healing buffs- although being able to slap an offense buff on anyone isn't half bad either. But when you have the points for it, yeah, it's still considerable to eke just a bit more oomph from your buffs.
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Oh hey, so I was gone for some time due to studying, now I can finally play this (and NOR) again :3
So how is the translation's progress? Did my crappy images ever get worked on ?
No clue on both questions since there hasn't been updates in awhile. I'm just going to assume that life happened and they'll get back to it whenever they can.
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So I'm stuck on the 12F bosses,
the Magatama and the Mirror. The Magatama just seems to attack too fast and hit too hard for me to mount an offensive, and I've got some Mind tanks (Minoriko, Parsee), and some heavy hitters (Patchy, Kaguya, Rumia, and fully debuffed-buffed Hina) lined up for the Mirror, but then it pulls out physical attacks and wipes the party.
Would anyone happen to have any advice for these two fights?
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I was too busy using Sanae for support to test her offense cards. (How long are we going to keep spoilering all the characters, is it really still necessary) In this game, Miracle Fruit is soooooo much better than the previous, and her heal is easier to use as well. Sanae's offense is perfectly suitable for randoms if you're so inclined just like every other character since you can switch boosted stats (although buffing up a slightly slower partner with Fruits is still perfectly viable in randoms so you don't have to buildswitch) but I doubt it's good enough to seriously consider on bosses over investing in her defenses. Maybe if the boss was weak to SPI? She's more important for supporting the team in bossfights... but you could maybe pull a good offensive Sanae against a SPI-weak boss.
I never said that her SPI element spellcard would be for bosses(I actually would see that spell as something to clear floor trash, since it doesn't miss). I would consider using her CLD element spellcard for fighting solo bosses, since it's supposed to be good against high MND enemies, and Sorcerer can and will boost it up by 30% with "Row Attack Strengthening". In a way, she would be played like a watered down version of Kanako offensively, but with support cards to more than make up for her lack of power. Also, that's why I'm thinking that Sorcerer won't really interfere with a support build for Sanae, since all of the stats that the subclass boosts helps towards things that she either already is strong in(MAG, MND), or that she would be happy to have more of anyway(MP, TP), so all that the subclass would really do is to give her a larger range of options to work with offensively.
Also, the enhancer skill increases a buff by 16% of it's original value multiplicatively, it doesn't add 16% on. Yeah, kind of disappointing. I'm not sure whether or not it effects that, because the difference wasn't large enough for me to have it as a high priority skill. The buffing heals are the best thing about the class, followed by healing buffs- although being able to slap an offense buff on anyone isn't half bad either. But when you have the points for it, yeah, it's still considerable to eke just a bit more oomph from your buffs.
what.
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Oh, for crying out loud! Why?!? Just... why?
If it's like that, then why couldn't they of given it a max level of 3 instead of 2(for reference, a max level of 3 would make it a 24% increase)? That way, it would be at least remotely useful...
And no, I don't think that it being like that just so the Pharmacologist's "Placebo Effect" spellcard can look more useful is a good reason for them to leave it like that...
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So I'm stuck on the 12F bosses, the Magatama and the Mirror. The Magatama just seems to attack too fast and hit too hard for me to mount an offensive, and I've got some Mind tanks (Minoriko, Parsee), and some heavy hitters (Patchy, Kaguya, Rumia, and fully debuffed-buffed Hina) lined up for the Mirror, but then it pulls out physical attacks and wipes the party.
Would anyone happen to have any advice for these two fights?
Overall, those bosses don't have more going on than making certain that you know how to kit up to protect against their elements and effectively swap characters to avoid deaths. So some general advice: From floor 10ish onward you're going to want to start dumping some level up stats into every character's Speed. The bosses are only going to keep getting faster, and not having the bosses go twice as often as you is more important than having higher stats in everything else. Don't be afraid to redistribute your current level up bonuses if you don't feel like grinding. Though grinding until you can just muscle through is certainly an option. :V
Don't be afraid to use the wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2) to figure out what elements the bosses use and are weak to. Load up you tanks/supports with resistances to those elements and prioritize attackers that take advantage of their weaknesses.
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So I'm stuck on the 12F bosses, the Magatama and the Mirror. The Magatama just seems to attack too fast and hit too hard for me to mount an offensive, and I've got some Mind tanks (Minoriko, Parsee), and some heavy hitters (Patchy, Kaguya, Rumia, and fully debuffed-buffed Hina) lined up for the Mirror, but then it pulls out physical attacks and wipes the party.
Oh man, I was stuck at that just about a week ago! :V
Back then I was fighting with... less information than I'd have liked (I even forgot whether their attacks ran on Attack or Magic, really. That wasn't in the wiki description *cries*)
For the mirror, I think back then I brute forced my way through by keeping up heavy defensive buffs, to the point that Kaguya didn't die from the mystic status effect attack (which the mirror used at the most inconvenient times). They were almost always healed up, especially with healer tanks in the front slot. Swallow's Cowrie Shell was buffed as much as possible on each cast. Then I kept pounding at them with Kaguya and Patchy in the back row (alternating with Leaning Iron Mountain Monks when I saw fit) until it managed to wipe Kaguya. By then she'd had already done a sizeable amount of damage, so I brought in the secondary damage dealers in her slot and continued wailing on the boss. I didn't have any magicians for whatever reason, so when it sucked away everyone's MP I stalled with tanks and healers etc. while the remaining people charged in the back. (Patchy had an Emergency Charge, so she owned everyone). If I knew it was using Mind attacks I may have brought Parsee and co, huh... basically I just went at it like any average boss, which is to beat the tar out of it before it does that to you. *cough*last Tenshi fight
You should probably keep those Mind tanks in, though, and especially a magician with good MP regen, to maybe have an easier time than me? Not to mention for some reason I thought Silent Selene was better to use than Princess Undine, asksdjdls it could have been so much faster. I didn't have much trouble in keeping normal tanks alive though, either. If your Mind tanks are dying too frequently try 'normal' tanks like Komachi, Mokou etc. and see if they make it easier.
For the Magatama it felt a bit easier, actually, even with half a team of squishy magicians. Sanae almost always out to cure the Black Universe victims, and I tried to keep Komachi in the back in case it decided to use the HP-cutting attack and I had to heal _that_ back up. I brought Kasen, Rumia and Sakuya as the Dark-attackers for this encounter (along with regulars like Nitori etc.), but Sakuya unluckily died pretty fast. Kasen could survive the attacks quite well with prompt healing, and I could mostly get Sanae and Aya fast enough to switch out anyone needing to be switched out, buff, or heal. Kasen was the main star and was always Miracle Fruit'd asap. When it cut everyone's HP, I went with a more sluggish pace instead of trying to kamikaze at the boss 'cos Kasen was either out of MP or dead or something. Both Reimu and Satori healed whenever necessary while I took it out.
That's all I remember for now~
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Oh man, I was stuck at that just about a week ago! :V
Back then I was fighting with... less information than I'd have liked (I even forgot whether their attacks ran on Attack or Magic, really. That wasn't in the wiki description *cries*)
For the mirror, I think back then I brute forced my way through by keeping up heavy defensive buffs, to the point that Kaguya didn't die from the mystic status effect attack (which the mirror used at the most inconvenient times). They were almost always healed up, especially with healer tanks in the front slot. Swallow's Cowrie Shell was buffed as much as possible on each cast. Then I kept pounding at them with Kaguya and Patchy in the back row (alternating with Leaning Iron Mountain Monks when I saw fit) until it managed to wipe Kaguya. By then she'd had already done a sizeable amount of damage, so I brought in the secondary damage dealers in her slot and continued wailing on the boss. I didn't have any magicians for whatever reason, so when it sucked away everyone's MP I stalled with tanks and healers etc. while the remaining people charged in the back. (Patchy had an Emergency Charge, so she owned everyone). If I knew it was using Mind attacks I may have brought Parsee and co, huh... basically I just went at it like any average boss, which is to beat the tar out of it before it does that to you. *cough*last Tenshi fight
You should probably keep those Mind tanks in, though, and especially a magician with good MP regen, to maybe have an easier time than me? Not to mention for some reason I thought Silent Selene was better to use than Princess Undine, asksdjdls it could have been so much faster. I didn't have much trouble in keeping normal tanks alive though, either. If your Mind tanks are dying too frequently try 'normal' tanks like Komachi, Mokou etc. and see if they make it easier.
For the Magatama it felt a bit easier, actually, even with half a team of squishy magicians. Sanae almost always out to cure the Black Universe victims, and I tried to keep Komachi in the back in case it decided to use the HP-cutting attack and I had to heal _that_ back up. I brought Kasen, Rumia and Sakuya as the Dark-attackers for this encounter (along with regulars like Nitori etc.), but Sakuya unluckily died pretty fast. Kasen could survive the attacks quite well with prompt healing, and I could mostly get Sanae and Aya fast enough to switch out anyone needing to be switched out, buff, or heal. Kasen was the main star and was always Miracle Fruit'd asap. When it cut everyone's HP, I went with a more sluggish pace instead of trying to kamikaze at the boss 'cos Kasen was either out of MP or dead or something. Both Reimu and Satori healed whenever necessary while I took it out.
That's all I remember for now~
I don't know what this business about normal tanks versus MND tanks is all about. My tanks just have high DEF and MND and if they're lopsided, I use Voile and equipment to fix that.
But disregarding that, your tactics and strategies were pretty well thought out.
And I forgot who mentioned about not having to spoiler stuff anymore (too lazy to check right now as I'm busy doing something else), but there's still new players coming into the thread. So yeah we should keep spoilering, even though its getting kind of annoying to do so.
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Question, guys...
How does one get Maribel and Renko to carry over into New Game Plus?
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Question, guys...
How does one get Maribel and Renko to carry over into New Game Plus?
I don't think you can actually do that. You might be able to after you beat Strengthen Ame no Murakamo but thats purely speculation since I'm not even close to being able to challenge him
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Question, guys...
How does one get Maribel and Renko to carry over into New Game Plus?
I don't think you can actually do that. You might be able to after you beat Strengthen Ame no Murakamo but thats purely speculation since I'm not even close to being able to challenge him
It's once you defeat the Strenghten Ame-no-Murakumo and get the "true" ending
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I got another question.
What enemies qualifies as an "Other" type (basically, the type of creatures that would be affected by Rinnosuke's "Knowledge of Weird Creatures" skill), and when's the earliest time when you likely run into one of them?
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I got another question.
What enemies qualifies as an "Other" type (basically, the type of creatures that would be affected by Rinnosuke's "Knowledge of Weird Creatures" skill), and when's the earliest time when you likely run into one of them?
All kedamas and oozes are classified as Others and those are found on pretty much each floors, there's a few other enemies here and there, but those are the most recognizable and most often seen. The only bosses which have that type are the Black Goddess, the Golden Orb, and their Strengthen counterparts, as well as all extra bosses (the weird alien-looking ones)
Also, for those worried about it, the translation project is not dead, I'm still working on it, just at a slower pace (translation for school > translation for this project)
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All kedamas and oozes are classified as Others and those are found on pretty much each floors, there's a few other enemies here and there, but those are the most recognizable and most often seen. The only bosses which have that type are the Black Goddess, the Golden Orb, and their Strengthen counterparts, as well as all extra bosses (the weird alien-looking ones)
So, that means that it's kinda useful in both random fights and against certain bosses, and is actually worth having in the post game as well. That's good to know.
Okay, I have yet another question, one that has been bugging me for a while. What enemies drop the item "Great Tree's Leaf", since it's needed for recruiting a certain character? I get the feeling that the plant like humanoid enemy is one of them, so I'm trying to confirm whether it's true or not...
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Quite a few enemies.
Kuron Nut
Forest Fairy
Ferocious Stump
Forest Thief
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Also, for those worried about it, the translation project is not dead, I'm still working on it, just at a slower pace (translation for school > translation for this project)
Don't worry about it. I haven't touched the game since the end of winter break due to school. Charity work is great, but if it means making your own life a mess, its not worth it.
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Quite a few enemies.
Kuron Nut
Forest Fairy
Ferocious Stump
Forest Thief
Thanks for the names, Axel.
I have a duet of a question about Cirno, and it's kind of a theoretical sort of thing...
1. If Cirno had either the skill "Arm-twisting" or "Final Blow", would that make her OP?
2. If Cirno's "White Album" spell could buff her attack and magic in addition to what it already does, would it make her more viable for attacking foes for damage? (Theory behind this comes from the idea that Reisen has mediocre stats, but has a fast all stats buff to make up for that, allowing her to hit hard. I would think that Cirno could benefit from something similar for the sake of being able to do damage)
Edit: Did this topic just go into a state of torpor or something?
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Edit: Did this topic just go into a state of torpor or something?
Not really, its only been 3 days since the last post. You could say that about the translation thread though.
I have a duet of a question about Cirno, and it's kind of a theoretical sort of thing...
1. If Cirno had either the skill "Arm-twisting" or "Final Blow", would that make her OP?
2. If Cirno's "White Album" spell could buff her attack and magic in addition to what it already does, would it make her more viable for attacking foes for damage? (Theory behind this comes from the idea that Reisen has mediocre stats, but has a fast all stats buff to make up for that, allowing her to hit hard. I would think that Cirno could benefit from something similar for the sake of being able to do damage)
1. No because neither of them benefit her very much. Maybe Arm-twisting, but Final Blow definitely not. Debuffs for all intents and purposes do not count as status ailments so Cirno could only depend on Diamond Blizzard for Paralysis. Its post use and its MP cost makes it not very viable to keep spamming.
2. That was true for her in LoT1 but her stats in LoT2 aren't mediocre imo. I've almost never used her buff in my synergy run and she still did more than enough damage. That said, it would make Cirno more viable for offense.
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Not really, its only been 3 days since the last post. You could say that about the translation thread though.
...sorry about me being impatient and all that...
1. No because neither of them benefit her very much. Maybe Arm-twisting, but Final Blow definitely not. Debuffs for all intents and purposes do not count as status ailments so Cirno could only depend on Diamond Blizzard for Paralysis. Its post use and its MP cost makes it not very viable to keep spamming.
Final Blow doesn't consider debuffs as status ailments, huh? Ouch.
As for Arm-Twisting, it's mainly for making it easier to land her debuffs and Paralysis.
As a afterthought of a question, would Impact Attack be good, bad, or too much on Cirno? Because her dealing out Shock in addition to what she already does would be surprisingly helpful, I would think...
2. That was true for her in LoT1 but her stats in LoT2 aren't mediocre imo. I've almost never used her buff in my synergy run and she still did more than enough damage. That said, it would make her my viable for offense.
First thing is the fact that I'm actually quite certain that the "Team 9" skill is meant to allow her to become a viable damage dealer, not to mention that part of me thinks that optimal set up for "Team 9" would be as follows(presuming that the "Team 9" skill for all members is maxed out):
First slot: Wriggle
Second slot: Cirno
Third slot: Mystia
Fourth slot: Rumia
(If you feel differently, then please do correct me on this)
The second thing is... well...
That said, it would make her my viable for offense.
"make her my viable for offense"? Could you clarify on that sentence?
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Cirno's White Album would probably land her in Tank territory for team 9. With her stat buffs in recent patches, she's not irredeemably squishy. It would be important even if she wasn't The Tank though, because if you're using team 9 she's going to have to stay out for hits regardless.
Wriggle has notably more HP and some more MND, but her DEF actually is barely any higher. You could subclass someone as Enhancer, though... which would probably be important for the ⑨ team managing to do much without switching someone out for a buffer.
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"make her my viable for offense"? Could you clarify on that sentence?
I kind of wrote the post in a rush and didn't notice my typo.
What I meant to say was that it would "make her more viable for offense". I already edited my post to reflect this but I guess I edited after you started typing your reply to me.
And just to clarify, when I wrote "her" in my second point, I'm referring to Reisen and her Grand Patriot's Elixir
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Cirno's White Album would probably land her in Tank territory for team 9. With her stat buffs in recent patches, she's not irredeemably squishy. It would be important even if she wasn't The Tank though, because if you're using team 9 she's going to have to stay out for hits regardless.
Wriggle has notably more HP and some more MND, but her DEF actually is barely any higher. You could subclass someone as Enhancer, though... which would probably be important for the ⑨ team managing to do much without switching someone out for a buffer.
Wriggle would probably be most suited for Enhancer in that set up. Mystia and Rumia need to be dedicated attackers and Cirno is most definitely relegated to being a Tank. She doesn't lose her ability to debuff SPD and paralyze, combined with her defensive self buff makes her perfect for this.
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Wriggle would probably be most suited for Enhancer in that set up. Mystia and Rumia need to be dedicated attackers and Cirno is most definitely relegated to being a Tank. She doesn't lose her ability to debuff SPD and paralyze, combined with her defensive self buff makes her perfect for this.
Actually, I would have to kind of disagree there, jaxter. Enhancer would actually work more for Cirno if she's going to be the tank, as that subclass would give her the ability to self-heal with her defensive buff, and the buff spells within the subclass would allow her to heal others as well, making her into a "sort of like Meiling, with better attack spells". Also, I still feel that Wriggle should be the tank of Team ⑨, if only because of her higher HP and MND(you can always give her Healer if you want her to be self sustaining, given that Wriggle doesn't have a self-buff like Cirno, and Poison only needs to be applied every once in a while to be effective(and can be backed up further by Mystia, if necessary), so she'll have both the time and the MP remaining to do healing without affecting her offensive power(unless you really do want to use her Poison as a indirect nuke, which would mean that you would need Toxicologist on her instead)), and more importantly, very good status resistance(better than most of the early floor characters(200 on Poison and Paralysis, and 66 on everything else? Yes, please!), which is why people often develop her as a poison dealing tank in the first place, since poison only depends on her level in order to be effective), which helps because you can focus on other things in terms of equips(and you can always improve her innate resistances if you can find the item that gives the "Ailment Boost" skill).
Ironically, the fact that Cirno is not irredeemably squishy is why I would put her in Slot 2, because she can take a hit somewhat if built up well, and her main use(disabling enemies) only requires that she have a good SPD stat to make optimal use of it.
Actually, this brings up an important question(two, really): if you could choose a subclass for each member of Team ⑨ to make optimal usage of the "Team ⑨" skill, which one would it be, and why?
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Actually, this brings up an important question(two, really): if you could choose a subclass for each member of Team ⑨ to make optimal usage of the "Team ⑨" skill, which one would it be, and why?
Didn't think about Healer on Wriggle. I just thought that Wriggle often has nothing to do when the enemy is already poisoned / can't be poisoned, so I gave her a buffing role.
The 16% healing on White Album does sound nice but Cirno is mostly going to be spending her MP on herself or the enemy. She can't really make use of the spells that come with Enhancer (specifically the ATK and MAG buffing one) because of this, and thus won't be throwing around 16% heals as often as Wriggle would.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to give Healer to Cirno and Enhancer to Wriggle.
Rumia should get Sorcerer mainly for the Penetrator spell, though I have a sneaking suspicion that Aspiration Surge will do more damage than Moonlight Ray and more magic damage doesn't hurt, while Mystia has more options imo.
Monk Mystia, Warrior Mystia or Gambler Mystia would work well.
Monk for access to Leaning Iron Mountain (Nature). She would also get boosts to SPD and EVA which she benefits from greatly and extra ACC doesn't hurt (though Ill Starred Dive already has +20 to ACC).
Warrior for the same reason as why Rumia gets Sorcerer. Explosive Flame Sword and Iai Slash are both great spells to have(Fire and Physical).
Gambler Mystia because Ill Starred Dive would only ramp up to 4 MP making it still spammable even with double MP costs and she gets a boost to ATK and EVA.
Gambler would also be the cheapest out of the three to reap the most benefit from skill point wise. Even though you get access to Gambler pretty much at the start of end game, skill point costs still matter because you'd have to decide which personal skills to leave out to make room for subclass skills.
It would be 32 points for Gambler, 92 points for Warrior (Unless you're not getting Iai Slash in which case it'd be 55 points), and 80 points for Monk (Unless you're not getting Puncturing Thrust in which case it'd be 55 points). These are only accounting for the most useful skills (No point in getting Row Attack Strengthening if you're not going to be getting Iai Slash, and no point in getting Making Normal Attacks Whole imo).
I personally would pick between Warrior and Monk, switching based on the current obstacle to be dealt with (Warrior for floor trash, Monk for bosses, unless the boss resists Nature / floor trash resists Physical). Gambler isn't my style.
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I don't know so much about optimal usage of them, but in my pseudo-NG+ run, they've been my floor trash and boss battle lead party since the start. Couldn't be happier with their overall performance, as they were almost never hard pressed to deal with randoms. That said, my setups for them have fluctuated from floor to floor to suit my needs, so I'll list some of the subclasses I felt worked well. Note that they are NOT the only people I use, so I'm not aiming for a 4-member team review here (I feel that would make Hard Mode insurmountable of a challenge).
Wriggle
Easily the best of the quartet. Stuck to Guardian early on for the improved defenses and damage reduction. Having an additional group-wide defense buff at the start of battles cushioned those times when I just couldn't outspeed something on the floor I was on. That said, hands down, I have not regretted making her a Strategist. Everything about Surprise Attack is glorious: an early Wriggle turn is an enemy party that dies to the fight command because of poison, An early Mystia turn is either a great MP restoration chance, early PSN or PAR chance, or just a quick nuke with Midnight Chorus Master. Early Cirno turns mean the enemy never gets to go. Early Rumia turns sadly don't mean as much, but because she's got such good recovery on her attack cards, she generally gets to go twice before anyone else (my own Puppet Top). Universally, any early turn means immediate Team 9 buffs, which can be a key player in killing some game enders before their apocalyptic turns. On the downside, I feel Strategist Wriggle tends to have some dead turns on bosses when she's incapable of or just not needed to perform dedicated switching.
Mystia
Mystia served me as a mix of nuke and MP battery for the most part. Early on, she used Monk to get preemptive turns and used that in conjunction with Iyashikei to help keep MP levels high on dungeon outings. Still perfectly usable for damage, as Midnight Chorus Master is pretty much unmatched by the other Team 9 members, and Poisonous Moth's Dark Dance still wins the award for best disabling spell in my book. That said, I've been using her as a Magician. Might seem odd, but with free Strategist turns every so often, chances for free spells, and access to Magic Transfer and Iyashikei, she's quite effective at clearing encounters or using non-threatening enemies to get everyone back in top shape. In boss fights, she's always gotten a lot of flack from me. I find it impossible to switch her into anything because of her frailty, and she does almost no damage for me. Monk with the defense piercing card might be a good swap for that, but I admit I've almost always had something in my back ranks to deal with whatever bosses stop Mystia cold.
Cirno
Probably the hardest to place here because of how often I've had her be dead weight. Cirno really lives and dies by her ability to disable things. For randoms, she's just fine. Serviceable damage, exceptionally fast, capable of disabling heavy threats for the most part. That said, for randoms, I've been using Transcendent just to make her a better slot 2. For bosses, I generally make her whichever offensive class offers a spellcard that hits weaknesses; her naturally composite nature works to her advantage here. For recent example, making her a Monk made the 20F West waypoint boss an absolute cakewalk after being walled several times in a row by it.
Rumia
Sorceror. I've tried a few things, like Enhancer, Healer, and Magician, but she just doesn't have the turns for these sorts of jobs. She's an amazing multi-target healer. She's one of my strongest sustained damage dealer with Moonlight Ray, and appreciates the small bit of elemental diversity in Penetrator. She still manages a respectable MND almost on par with Wriggle despite less investment. She definitely also appreciates the MAG buffs from Magic Beating and Mind Assault. Gambler might make for an interesting choice, given her fairly low MP costs and quite good initial damage output, but I've always found her pretty sturdy and I wouldn't want to throw that out for some impressive-in-practice boosts to her damage.
-
So I've been trying to beat
the mirror
, thanks in part to the advice here, and nothing's worked so far.
Basically, it seems like the mirror keeps getting stronger as the fight goes on - I'm not sure if it's my imagination or if it's just buffs/debuffs or something (although I've been using the Hinatactic of self-debuffing skill + debuff -> buff skill, so it'd have to be on the mirror's side), but it always ends up being able to overkill my frontline and thus wipe me out in one hit.
I'm not really sure what to do at this point, so is there anything I could do besides trying to grind more?
-
I hated that fight and its complement on the other side of the floor. They were the first and only time when I had to break from my usual 12 party members to make it through. That said, it's been a while so I can only provide a passing gloss over what I did.
Kanako
was my MVP. Tossed her in the last slot and let her skills do all the supportive work while she nailed the boss's weakness as fast as she could. I had Kaguya as a sort of backup, for her ability to pierce defenses and bring yet another of the boss's weaknesses, but she bit the dust quite early in the fight.
That said, my main strategy was Wriggle and Komachi maintaining slot 1 while swapping in heals and defensive buffs to buy the frontline time. My farside nuke wracked up damage and buffs through Majesty, and seemed perfectly safe with all the support spells being flung around. Reimu, Keine and Iku
sped up the buff process for her. I can't recall if Kogasa's MND debuffs were worth my time or not, but given that I was only aiming to hit one of its defenses, I'm guessing she might have helped. Hina, who I subbed in for the other side's fight, didn't perform well at all here because of how much I needed my front line to be in perfect shape.
I know at the very least, once it hits the Great Calamity threshold that it does indeed get some stat increases, notably to speed. My stall tactics seemed pretty sound up until that point, but with nobody able to sling spells around at a whim, it's good to make sure you can complete the damage race after you get it to about 33%. Thankfully, between Majesty, Last Moment's Latent Energy, Strong Faith
, and Ability to Create Heaven
, I never once had issues with Kanako
maintaining her output.
That said, if you didn't recruit her yet...well, I don't have any relevant strategies for you. She was the lynchpin for me.
Quick Edit: I just realized that I still have my save from that floor, before both of those bosses. If you can't use my listed strategy, I can attempt to whip up another one with whoever you do have access to.
-
So I just got access to this game, I'm currently on floor 9 grinding for that level 37 boss fight.
Still, I'm pretty sure I've done all of Chen's events for recruiting Ran
, I just went through every floor to double check and I didn't find a single missing event other than what I assume are BP events (and none of them seem to be connected to Chen in any way), despite this, I've looked through floor 9 and no new boss icon, what gives? Should be noted I forgot an event in the fourth floor so I had to double back and get it.
Also, I'm assuming version 1.151 is not the newest version, because that's what I managed to get from the developer's site, if it's not, could any of you give me a link to the newest version?
Also, Iku is just as broken as she was in the first game, only now she seems to have severe MP problems, Nitori is just as stupid as she was before.
-
Do anyone know if I have to have a Credit Card to purchase from Melonbooks? Or can I do it with a UK Visa Debit Card?
-
So I just got access to this game, I'm currently on floor 9 grinding for that level 37 boss fight.
Still, I'm pretty sure I've done all of Chen's events for recruiting Ran
, I just went through every floor to double check and I didn't find a single missing event other than what I assume are BP events (and none of them seem to be connected to Chen in any way), despite this, I've looked through floor 9 and no new boss icon, what gives? Should be noted I forgot an event in the fourth floor so I had to double back and get it.
Also, I'm assuming version 1.151 is not the newest version, because that's what I managed to get from the developer's site, if it's not, could any of you give me a link to the newest version?
Have you had Chen in your party to gain BP? She does need 200 BP in total to unlock the boss fight. The events leading up to it may not necessarily show Chen in them to require her BP to be high enough to complete them. Other than that, I don't know what the problem could be.
There's a link to a download for the latest version of the game in the first post of the thread.
Edit: A link to the 1.203 translation patch can be found here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.msg1059220.html#msg1059220).
Do anyone know if I have to have a Credit Card to purchase from Melonbooks? Or can I do it with a UK Visa Debit Card?
I don't have any experience with UK Debit Cards and any difference they may have with cards in the US, but I recall my USA Debit Card worked fine.
-
Ah, thank you, also, I'm pretty sure my Chen doesn't have enough BP because I almost never used her, unless BP works differently in the second game? If so, anybody knows how it works so I can cheat engine my way through it?
@edit
waitaminute you can actually check BP in the second game? Holy shit this is godly.
-
waitaminute you can actually check BP in the second game? Holy shit this is godly.
This. Is this actually possible in the second game?
-
Yup
http://i.imgur.com/NIHSwTN.png
-
What does Silence do to enemies, after all?
-
What does Silence do to enemies, after all?
Reduces their Magic and Mind apparently.
-
Alright, thank you.
A few more questions: Is there any point to farming FOEs? Aside from achievements and such.
Also, anybody has any tips to floor 10? It's the start of the desert strata which probably means that orin
won't be as effective of a trash cleaner as she was being in the jungle strata. Note: I haven't actually tried it I'm stopping for now.
Also, have this picture of (http://puu.sh/6QwzH)Tenshi
paralyzing my Reimu at 9999 ATB[/url].
And I've heard about a "Jewel of Great Awakening", what is the difference between that and the regular Jewel of Awakening?
Funny moment of the day: Orin
procs Extra Attack... 8 times in a row. Unfortunately it was in a concentrate but hell that would've been AWESOME if it was in a boss fight.
-
Yup
http://i.imgur.com/NIHSwTN.png
Hooray!
By the way, has anyone noticed that Marisa has some seriously long hair in her portrait?
-
That seems to be a habit of this artist. Hair is either shoulder or knee length.
A few more questions: Is there any point to farming FOEs? Aside from achievements and such.
Also, anybody has any tips to floor 10? It's the start of the desert strata which probably means that orin
won't be as effective of a trash cleaner as she was being in the jungle strata. Note: I haven't actually tried it I'm stopping for now.
And I've heard about a "Jewel of Great Awakening", what is the difference between that and the regular Jewel of Awakening?
You need to beat 30 FOE to recruit Flandre
.
Nature and Cold worked particularly well throughout the entire desert strata for my runs.
I'm fairly certain the Great Awakening never gets used up, so you can just throw a subclass on everybody.
-
Alright, thank you.
A few more questions: Is there any point to farming FOEs? Aside from achievements and such.
Early F.O.Es give decent experience when you can fight them, and they also tend to have good/decent items as well for that point in the game, like the GetItUp V. That is, if you're willing to try and farm them.
-
A UK debit card is indeed sufficient to purchase from Melonbooks.
In other news the base game is v1.130 can I go straight to patch 1.203 or do I need to update in stages? Also how do I add the Translation patch?
-
A UK debit card is indeed sufficient to purchase from Melonbooks.
In other news the base game is v1.130 can I go straight to patch 1.203 or do I need to update in stages? Also how do I add the Translation patch?
You should be able to patch straight through to 1.203.
The translation patch is simply a matter of copying over the executable and running that. You'll need to get the translated image files from the first post of the translation thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.0.html) as well though.
-
Patching straight through works fine and thanks for the information about the image files.
In other news Rumia is amazing! My main DPS against the F.O.Es on 2nd and 3rd floors. In the latter case Dark Side of the Moon was the only thing that could deal any damage to it because of mind piercing. With buffing from Keine and speed and mind debuffs from Cirno and Kogasa(probably unneeded) respectively it went down to spamming of DSotM at level 9. It did oneshot anyone it hit however and I was terrified Chen was gonna fight me afterwords.
-
So I've beaten
the mirror
- thanks for the advice, everyone - and now I've got to deal with the magatama
.
This time around I've got some solid tanks (Momiji and Youmu - turns out that with skills, levelup bonuses, and equipment, the halfghost is a surprisingly solid wall), but my main issue is being unable to do enough damage before the HP-reduction and multi-target attacks whittle me down.
I've got Kasen, Sakuya
, and Rumia to switch in and out as main damage dealers, as well as Nitori and ]Utsuho
to nuke; anyone else who would be good to bring along?
-
If you're just looking for character suggestions: The magatama is weak to Dark, so
Reisen
pulls double duty with both debuffing and damage. Orin does too with a bit less emphasis on the debuffing.
-
I'm kinda guilty of making this account just to ask this, but can someone please direct me to the v1.203 download? I've spend 3 hours now looking for it, and I can't find it :<
-
I'm kinda guilty of making this account just to ask this, but can someone please direct me to the v1.203 download? I've spend 3 hours now looking for it, and I can't find it :<
The newest patch is on the developer's homepage, but not yet in the section of LoT2. If you're on the main site (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/ (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/)), scroll down a little until you see the December 19th blogpost. That's where the two links are.
Oh, a direct download mirror is also in here, on page 1 of the thread...
-
The newest patch is on the developer's homepage, but not yet in the section of LoT2. If you're on the main site (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/ (http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/)), scroll down a little until you see the December 19th blogpost. That's where the two links are.
Oh, a direct download mirror is also in here, on page 1 of the thread...
I am so stupid for not seeing those mirrors at the first page :V
Thank you sincerely :3
-
excuse me
how can i pass this rock ? i dont understand ... work 88 times?
http://imageshack.com/a/img543/9819/2xmu.png
thank you ^_^
-
Get 88 or more achievements I believe that one means.
Clearing floor 5 now at lv16 and Komachi and Kogasa just destroyed that fire crystal. With high fire resistance and the Edokko God of Death on Komachi and Forgotten Item on Kogasa damage piled up everyone time someone else charged in but was unable to switch out and got killed while Kogasa seemed reliably able to inflict Terror despite it's resistance so kept herself buffed and used little MP. Poison wouldn't stick and Wriggle got one-shotted however so it was a long fight.
Went back to the shrine afterwards and realised that I had three levels of exp stocked up. I keep forgetting to go back there.
Does anyone know what chance the Main equips that inflict ailment have? Silence on Youmu hits almost every time against a variety of enemies and yet I've never seem Heavy hit anyone - Aya has this one if it matters.
-
excuse me
how can i pass this rock ? i dont understand ... work 88 times?
http://imageshack.com/a/img543/9819/2xmu.png
thank you ^_^
If I remember correctly, it was stated that you have to create 88 items at Nitori's for that one. The wording is just as obscure in Japanese, so it isn't just a translation misstep.
-
So I'm on the 12th floor and I'm really having a problem with the Shining Mirror. This is my first playthrough of the game, and I never played LoT1 before. Now putting that information aside, I noticed that at the beginning of the battle, the mirror is doing basically no damage after I buff up Koma's and Meiling's mind with Reimu's and Keine's defense buffs. In fact, some attacks deal 0 damage. This is when they have about 70%+ Mind. However, I'm not sure if it's when I get the boss to half HP, or after a certain amount of turns, it just suddenly does loads of damage. Even with 100% Mind Koma and Meiling are taking 1000+ damage from it's AoE physical attack, and they're resistant too! And don't forget about the Ancient Curse, oh god. I'm playing at the recommended level too. Any advice that can be given?
(And since this is my first run, I'm pretty sure I've done some stupid things already.)
-
Aaaaagh.. I think I got myself stuck on 17F..
(http://i.imgur.com/1QN7rpK.png)
Heeeelp ;A;
-
Well, I managed to beat the Shining Mirror finally. I just had to switch Meiling for Parsee. Meiling just doesn't have good enough dark and mystic resistance to deal with that thing. Even if you try to mintage it with items, she'll have no shock resistance. So switching to Parsee meant much more mind, already very dark and mystic resistance, and I just gotta simply fix her shock resistance. I also had to use Sakuya and Aya's speed buffs more. Those speed buffs really helped near the end when the mirror destroyed everyone's mana. Just had to allow Kaguya enough time to replenish her mana, then switched her in and out to use her Swallow's Shell or whatever it's called. Did about 10k per hit, got rid of it. Now off to the Magatama.
But since this is a help thread, I do have another question.
What do all the statuses do the bosses/enemies exactly? Besides the obvious ones like poison, paralysis, and shock.
-
What do all the statuses do the bosses/enemies exactly? Besides the obvious ones like poison, paralysis, and shock.
If I recall correctly, SIL lowers MAG and MND, HVY lowers AGI(spd) and TRR lowers ATK and DEF. I think Poison and Paralysis also reduced some stats, but not sure which.
Edit; Holy heck, Just encountered a Golden Mushroom
on 17F. Are there any more of these? What do they do?
-
Aaaaagh.. I think I got myself stuck on 17F..
(http://i.imgur.com/ESZLA6b.png)
Gets you straight where you need to be, without any more teleport-choices afterwards.
-
Thank you for helping me once again, Gesh.
-
Is it worth attempting to beat Tenshi on 6F? I'm lv22 so obviously I can't pierce her defences even when fully debuffed and she's one-shotting my characters. She has some great drops but are any of them uniqueworth the hideous amount of grinding it'd take to survive long enough for poison to do its job?
-
The Weekly Item Discovery Den and Small Discount Sets will be lost forever, but those just give extra 1.6% drop rate on items and a 1% discount. Personally, I'd say those aren't worth it. It's ultimately up to you though; you'll need to get into the mid 30s at least to have a shot and 40+ if you don't want to rely on luck.
-
6F Tenshi will still drop 3 items if you manage to deal some damage before she runs away (about half of her HP, I think).
The other drops you can get when you defeat her is powerful, but you can get them in infinite quantities in later floors.
-
so the boss rush didnt spawn on client with english patch ....
my client with english patch is 1.151
do we have english patch for 1.203 ?
sorry for my bad english
-
It takes a bit of digging, but you can find the 1.203 English patch in this thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15439.msg1059220.html#msg1059220).
-
I've got a couple of questions. One is just that I'm not entirely sure mine patched right. I ran the patch as is recommended, but when I start up the game, it still has the previous version at the top of the window? It reads 1.151 on startup.
Also, does anyone have any tips on how to make poor Youmu work? I pump everything I can into her attack and try to use her as a 2nd slot off tank but she never does as much damage as nearly anyone else, even when buffed.
It sounds like there's some post-game content now, too, so I guess that's what to get started on after beating the final boss?
-
1. I've got a couple of questions. One is just that I'm not entirely sure mine patched right. I ran the patch as is recommended, but when I start up the game, it still has the previous version at the top of the window? It reads 1.151 on startup.
2. Also, does anyone have any tips on how to make poor Youmu work? I pump everything I can into her attack and try to use her as a 2nd slot off tank but she never does as much damage as nearly anyone else, even when buffed.
3. It sounds like there's some post-game content now, too, so I guess that's what to get started on after beating the final boss?
1. Did you update both the Japanese version and English version up to 1.203? I'm not too certain about how the English patch works, but it may require you to have the Japanese version up to date as well. Mine currently reads as 1.203 on both.
2. If you're specializing Youmu in offence, you're going to want to switch her to the back line and re-switch her to the front line at your soonest possible convenience after she attacks. Youmu's fast, but not fast enough to make up for her high delay attacks. Swapping her out and in lets her get in more hits by resetting her timebar to 7500.
3. Might as well.
-
Hello everyone, i'm here to have help for a.. little problem with the text, i don't know if i'm the only one, or i'm missing a font, but.. Simply put, text are too long and get cut off.
... Or to explain in a single image :
http://puu.sh/729e9.jpg
And it's happen for a lot of skills, achievement, and some item. That kinda annoying.
But i guess i'm missing a font? I didn't found it in the english patch folder. Can someone help me please?
Thanks you.
( I know i've alerdy posted this in the translation project, but if it's annoy some people, then i'll delete this post. )
-
The translation patch is in a fairly rough state, so it's just like that. Nothing to really do about it.
-
The translation patch is in a fairly rough state, so it's just like that. Nothing to really do about it.
Aww, well, thanks for the awnser. :3
I wish the best for the translation project. :3
-
guys ... i really need some help with 15F strengthen boss glowing azure giant ...
he buff all his stats to 100% on first turn -_- (even raisen with hexer cant remove that 100% stats in 2 turn before he kill all my front line)
he kill everymember of my team in 1 hit except komachi ...
do i need to use tenshi to remove that buff first ?
thx
i already defeat Shredding Amnesieri, Aria-Singing Toruastory + all strenghthen boss except 15F 18F and 20F -_-
-
Right, finally got this thing going.
-
Finally beat
Alice
. Lv 25 and it was a horribly hard fight. Her boss self is worse than her regular self for attacking defence and mind. Unfortunately none of my major sweepers have enough def/mind to take a hit like that, or three if some dolls
survive before switching them out again for tanks. That's the problem I had, none of my tanks are also sweepers and they can only tank def or mnd meaning if there's a magic doll
I can't kill in time my physical tank dies.
Kasen was a god send in this fight, her multi-target nature spell could two-shot magical dolls
and she has a powerful wind nuke as well as guts so can survive. Aya ensured Wriggle could poison her before she was killed and Gods Slash of Karma Wind is indeed Godly, as is Djinn Gust. Defence buffs were less usefull as I still couldn't take a hit with anyone but Komachi stacked with affinity. Also everyone seems weak to fire, everyone! Is there any way I could have made that fight less torturous on myself?
On the other side of the map we have the Great Tree
, seriously screw that guy, took forever to navigate around him for the final stone as he kept killing me. On to floor 8!
-
Finally beat Alice
. Lv 25 and it was a horribly hard fight. Her boss self is worse than her regular self for attacking defence and mind. Unfortunately none of my major sweepers have enough def/mind to take a hit like that, or three if some dolls
survive before switching them out again for tanks. That's the problem I had, none of my tanks are also sweepers and they can only tank def or mnd meaning if there's a magic doll
I can't kill in time my physical tank dies.
Kasen was a god send in this fight, her multi-target nature spell could two-shot magical dolls
and she has a powerful wind nuke as well as guts so can survive. Aya ensured Wriggle could poison her before she was killed and Gods Slash of Karma Wind is indeed Godly, as is Djinn Gust. Defence buffs were less usefull as I still couldn't take a hit with anyone but Komachi stacked with affinity. Also everyone seems weak to fire, everyone! Is there any way I could have made that fight less torturous on myself?
On the other side of the map we have the Great Tree
, seriously screw that guy, took forever to navigate around him for the final stone as he kept killing me. On to floor 8!
Fighting at the recommended level might have helped...The wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Dungeons/7F#Alice_Margatroid)
-
Stumbleing through.
Beat Floor 1, recruited everyone except Parsee there [At least I think I have. I can't find anymore events]. And now I'm stuck at some Giant Boar thing which is suddenly a 4 level jump. I presume grinding is required, although as I failed to beat it Kasen joined.
I have no clue what I'm doing.
Also despite being the same level, Marisa having some equipment, and both being pure MAG builds, Rumia's Moonlight Ray is actually hitting harder than Marisa's Magic Missiles. Wat. I thought it took a while for Rumia's EXP curve + ratios to kick in and give her good damage in LoT1, but she's got pretty cool damage now already.
Also I am highly tempted to just run through the game with a single party focused around Rumia. Because I'm me. Kogasa+Rumia already seems like a pretty cool combo because Kogasa has the MND debuff which buffs up Moonlight Ray indirectly. Of course I have no clue what I'm doing yet especially since half the game is still Japanese so I don't know who comes when. I just got Cirno.
Also WOW the art is a buttload better in this game.
Edit:
Looking at the characters on the wiki and these 'skills' and 'subclasses' I can see the game is a lot more mechanically complex than before.
I am also incredibly tempted to make a hilarious 'Self-Debuff-Buff' team using Hina and Parsee as cornerstones. Hina debuffs everyone, but in turn buffs herself because of Misfortune Reversal. Meanwhile Parsee powers up due to Ability to Manipulate Jealousy. I guess the slot 1 tank here would be Komachi, because she doesn't really use stats, she just uses HP [And she has 0 Debuff resistance], and the 4th slot could be a rotational slot of nukers and debuffers, including the self-debuffing Utusho.
Or I could use Rumia as a main nuker, bearing in mind her massive debuff resist, and the fact her Dark Side of the Moon is powered up by Parsee's 'Flames of Jealousy' skill. Of course this is probobly far from being the most efficient trash-clearing party, and probobly sucks as soon as it runs into anything immune to Dark.
I always like running debuffs in games where they're good. More than buffs. I don't know why :/
-
One of the nicer things about LoT2 is that there doesn't seem to be any characters that are really "bad". If you feel like trying something, go for it.
-
Also despite being the same level, Marisa having some equipment, and both being pure MAG builds, Rumia's Moonlight Ray is actually hitting harder than Marisa's Magic Missiles. Wat. I thought it took a while for Rumia's EXP curve + ratios to kick in and give her good damage in LoT1, but she's got pretty cool damage now already.
At least in the case of LoT1, Moonlight Ray has a really high MAG multiplier compared to Magic Missile but factors in more of the enemies' MND making Marisa do more damage against enemies with higher MND. This is kind of the reason why Rumia tends to fall off.
That said, I don't know the damage calculation formula for LoT2 so it could be for other reasons.
-
At least in the case of LoT1, Moonlight Ray has a really high MAG multiplier compared to Magic Missile but factors in more of the enemies' MND making Marisa do more damage against enemies with higher MND. This is kind of the reason why Rumia tends to fall off.
That said, I don't know the damage calculation formula for LoT2 so it could be for other reasons.
No, in LoT 1 it was usually said she 'ramped up'. Probobly because she can completely ignore MND with Dark Side of the Moon. Also Demaration.
One of the nicer things about LoT2 is that there doesn't seem to be any characters that are really "bad". If you feel like trying something, go for it.
Well none of them were really 'bad' in LoT1. Except maybe Kanako and Utusho, but even she had use in the way that she had the only big single-target CLD nuke, and Utusho could work with support.
There were more 'broken' characters in Lot1 than 'bad ones. [Meiling was absurd, Iku was stupid, Nitori's nuke was dumb...]. Which makes me a little worried about Iku when I see she has ANOTHER attack now which lets her Stickleback herself and then go mental.
Also I kinda stumbled into a boss with a Lv 9 icon right next to a relay point so I decided to fight it at average level 7.
I beat Kaguya at average level 7, first try. Now I'm onto Floor 3.
-
So trying to go over the character list in the game and see who's required to beat the game. I think on the list is about 20 characters out of the total group. Besides the starting 4, gonna spoil all the other names.
Reimu
Marisa
Rinnosuke
Keine
Youmu
Minoriko
Cirno?[Might be able to skip the event, I'd need to go back to that part]
Komachi
Hina
Rin
Utsuho
Satori
Iku
Remilia
Sakuya
Kanako
Suwako
Tenshi
Yuyuko
Yukari
Not sure if I'm missing anyone or added someone I shouldn't of. Kanako and Suwako
aren't listed as required on the wiki but I think they are since I remember a rock on the 12th floor that required both I believe.
-
Possible Essential-Characters-Only team out of the lot? There's a few synergy teams you could pull off and the builds are likely going to be defense oriented.
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Possible Essential-Characters-Only team out of the lot? There's a few synergy teams you could pull off and the builds are likely going to be defense oriented.
More like speedrun routing. Only off-essentials I am thinking/planning to grab was Momiji(Early Physical tank/damage dealer), Nitori(Maintenance can be a really OP skill), Kasen(She's a early game crutch character that can do really well even in the late game), Aya (Strat should be obvious, and would reduce any grinding I'd need endgame), and maybe Reisen(Lowering Debuff resistance can really help, but I'm going to have to see if it's even worth it).
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No, in LoT 1 it was usually said she 'ramped up'. Probobly because she can completely ignore MND with Dark Side of the Moon. Also Demaration.
Uh what?
"Finally, while Dark Side of the Moon is your first completely defense-ignoring spell, it has very low damage output between its low formula and Rumia's low MAG, and while generally useless, can prove highly useful against a select few enemies. "
I really have no idea why anyone would think Rumia ramped up. Her Moonlight Ray gets worse and worse since enemy defenses skyrocket towards the end game. And as the wiki's character description for her aptly put it, Dark Side of the Moon is hardly ever worth using.
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LoT1 rumia is pretty bad, until postgame where she -does- ramp up because Demarcation actually becomes good at healing. Moonlight Ray does roughly as much as a nuke should do (a little less, but a negligible amount less) at that point as well, but apart from the Shiki fight where she hits weakness, you really only take her as Backup Reimu.
DSoTM is hard to use ever, apart from tinking off everything's last bit of HP early in the game. It's too weak to adequately damage the nigh-invulnerable enemies even if you really twink Rumia up, although if you used Iku in tandem it'd probably work since Rumia is slow enough for you to get Iku moving first.
LoT2 Rumia is pretty good though, her moveset is much more usable in general situations (DSoTM and Demarcation have better numbers and don't rely on scaling) and a large amount of bosses are susceptible to her Humanoid damage boost. IIRC she's a little more durable vs. magic now as well.
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Went to 21F and got a crash thrown in my face.. I forgot saving after beating the final boss too.
;A;
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Where are all the Stones of Awakening? Are any of them in the Extra areas of the endgame? Trying to get the Stone of Greater Awakening (Heard that you could get it after getting all Stones of Awakening?), but I currently only have 9 ???
I need to learn how to use spoilers, I guess :V
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I think 1 or 2 of them were added to the new areas in the latest patch.
Since I have an excuse to post, does anyone know which patch version added Hard mode?
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Version 1.140 added Hard Mode. Says the changelog.
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Hmm, okay, I'll go look for it, thanks. By the way, the Stone of Greater Awakening allows you to give everyone a subclass?
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Yeah, if you give a subclass it won't be consumed so it can be used infinitely.
On another note, I hate Flower Divers. 8th floor is kicking my ass, I blame Tenshi. Her boss fight only required cannon fodder so I didn't grind to recommended level and was thus under levelled for 7th bosses. Beat them by luck and now regular encounters on 8th floor are able to kill me in two turns without Royal Flare or something.
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IIRC Recommended level for the first Tenshi fight is "way overleveled". You're not supposed to grind up to that point.
Touhou Labyrinth just throws killer random battles at you, more or less!
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Hello, it's me again! I'm quite a bit further in the game than last time, hahaha.
This time around, I need help fighting Yuuka
on 8F. I'm several levels above challenge level, and yet I still can't keep up with the healing + damage from Gensokyo's Reflowering.
I have Minoriko tanking and Patchy
in the fourth slot, with Alice
, Youmu, Nitori (if she ever survives), and Remilia
as major damage dealers. Anyone else I should look to?
If it helps, I've recruited everyone except Yukari, Flandre, Shikieiki, and Yuuka (obv)
so far.
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Well, I was very overleveled when I smashed Yuuka; a few levels above the challenge level is too hard, I guess. (for me, anyway.)
As for the characters, maybe you could use Kanako (Power may be too weak though). Also, as Yuuka has no resistance to Shock, you may want to use Rin with the SHK increasing main equip and Extra Attack, along with speed equips. If you really want to, you can go get Flandre and Laevateinn Yuuka (Make sure to find a safe moment for her first!). Mokou can work as well. (?) Anyway, this is my opinion; just try trial and error.
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The ver 1202 patch link in the OP is broken :<
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So I just tried to Cheat Engine my way to victory against the
Ame-No-Murakumo fight on 12F, after Tenshi
It
runs away after a couple of turns so I guess they expected someone to do that.
-
I've waited and waited... can't.. imma just take what I can get now and try touhou laby2 now with an incomplete patch. Not complaining about the length or anything, anything at all is wonderful, I just adore the game and need to play it naooo.
anyway. I was hoping finding the newest english translation patch supported official japanese patch would be described and stuff in the op but doesn't seem to be the case. that's not why I'm posting though, while doing that I noticed
"LoT 1 Patches and other downloads
Ver 2.04 patch
Ver 2.06B patch Dead link. HALP."
I actually have a zip file of the 2.06 patch, but it's the official patch, not the translation patch, is that's what is wanted? I'm not sure? I also have 3.01 patch, and the english version of 3.01 if that's needed.
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I've waited and waited... can't.. imma just take what I can get now and try touhou laby2 now with an incomplete patch. Not complaining about the length or anything, anything at all is wonderful, I just adore the game and need to play it naooo.
anyway. I was hoping finding the newest english translation patch supported official japanese patch would be described and stuff in the op but doesn't seem to be the case. that's not why I'm posting though, while doing that I noticed
I actually have a zip file of the 2.06 patch, but it's the official patch, not the translation patch, is that's what is wanted? I'm not sure? I also have 3.01 patch, and the english version of 3.01 if that's needed.
An english patch for 2.06b was never made, so yes, I'm pretty sure they're looking for the official patch.
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Ahh, i cant remember, ill try and upload it as soon as im at my pc.
edit: okies here it is:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/wqghv7ego3me8qm/thLabyrinth_ver2.06.zip
new edit: playing the game, about to face final boss on floor 3, but I remember asking this during demo days and nobody could answer... is there any way to play this in fullscreen? the default screen is too small, and manually resizing it gives noticeable pixels... qq.
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Ahh, i cant remember, ill try and upload it as soon as im at my pc.
edit: okies here it is:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/wqghv7ego3me8qm/thLabyrinth_ver2.06.zip
new edit: playing the game, about to face final boss on floor 3, but I remember asking this during demo days and nobody could answer... is there any way to play this in fullscreen? the default screen is too small, and manually resizing it gives noticeable pixels... qq.
If full screen existed, it would basically function the same as if you were manually resizing it. I fail to see what the difference would be other than black bars covering whats left of the screen (Unless your resolution just happens to match the game's).
I didn't notice any quality drops upon manually resizing the window though O.O
Just realized that not everyone has the same resolution I do, as yours might be much larger than mine. I still think being able to manually resize it is good enough as opposed to LoT1's window.
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I assure you it most certainly is not. Ive never seen a window game with a fullscreen option get all pixelated to the same extent as this one does when resizing it... Plus i have a widescreen so i literally cannot resize it to fit my screen horizontally.
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Anyone else have a problem where the game no longer recognises their save files? I have four files used and the game tells me every file is blank. Also for some reason the sound doesn't work anymore, no matter what I do in the options menu.
It's not a huge problem, I was only on floor 8 but if there's a solution anyone knows it would be really helpful.
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Hmm, i havent touched the game for a long time and it still seems to see my saves. I havent actually tried loading them though.
I noticed the patch came with a save folder or something, i just copied all that over carless if it removed my old saves or not. Maybe if you dont do that it wont recognize the oldies? I dunno.
Anyway im just at tenshi the first time in my new game and im actually grinding it out in hopes of getting lewt. That said it seems like youmu is frickin' awful in this game. I ranked up her slash of eternity more than i have any other character's attack nukes, and she STILL hits for absolutely underwhelming damage with it considering its mp and delay.
For example she often hits bosses with it for 800-900 only with it, unless they are tanky like blue orchid, where she hits for 0.
Meanwhile kogasa can often hit for 2k or so, rumia 2-4k, even reimu can hit harder after a concentrate (her high speed and lower delay makes a concentrate + orb attack about the same slowness, not that i dont switch youmu out). Even a single attack from aya or chen's spam nukes are compareable... And yes, i spent all of youmu's level ups on atk.
That said i love aya now, chen doesnt seem quite as deadly as in lot1, but still fine (she seems better at trash though). Reimu's fantasy seal and orb attacks seem actually potent... Shes 100% mind too, if built for attack i rekon she'd actually be an offensive monster. Marisa's magi missle seems better, but her master spark less so (mostly because characters dont seem to charge mp in reserve NEARLY as fast as they did in lot1).
Im thinking of dumping youmu for yuugi, she has failed to seem satisfactory, let alone good on a single boss so far.
Kogasa on the other hand seems kinda like a more offensive remilia (lot1 remi), with aoe, and less dependancy of self buffing before dealing good damage. Not as tanky, but still tough enough to take a hit from most bosses (by most pretty much every boss other than yuugi so far).
As for difficulty, ive faced every boss at their challenge issues with little challenge. Im only on floor 6 though so i wont complain. That 7-eyed serpent though seemed far far more difficult than the bosses before and after. I think it needs some toning down because i cant imagine doing an under level run (below the challenge levels) and not being brickwalled by it. If it attacked the front row with its big chomp more reliably that'd be one thing but that thing picks off at my rear just as often as the front!
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The ver 1202 patch link in the OP is broken :<
It's late but it should be fixed now.
I actually have a zip file of the 2.06 patch, but it's the official patch, not the translation patch, is that's what is wanted? I'm not sure? I also have 3.01 patch, and the english version of 3.01 if that's needed.
All three of those would be greatly appreciated.
It's been awhile, but life's been...weird lately.
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3.01 patch : http://www.mediafire.com/download/ahccqhixp7d1n9p/thLabyrinth_ver3.01.zip
english v3: http://www.mediafire.com/download/71x2aghm3dco808/Labyrinth+of+Touhou+Special+Disk+English+Patch.zip
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I assure you it most certainly is not. Ive never seen a window game with a fullscreen option get all pixelated to the same extent as this one does when resizing it... Plus i have a widescreen so i literally cannot resize it to fit my screen horizontally.
I just resize it so the height of the window matches my screen and that is good enough for me. I still don't see the pixelated issue you see, but that's probably due to different screen resolutions more than anything. I honestly doubt there's something inherently different between our two copies that causes this.
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So I noticed Kogasa's "arm twisting" skill says that enemy status ailment resistance is reduced for the purposes of applying ailments. This obviously increases her chance of applying terror along with the ability to surprise humans or whatever that skill is called.
However it got me thinking that if I wore primary gear that adds ailments to attacks like the sword of singing delusion, maybe she can (sometimes) apply silence to bosses that are normally completely immune?
Is there a death-applying item?
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Is there a death-applying item?
IIRC, there is.
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So I noticed Kogasa's "arm twisting" skill says that enemy status ailment resistance is reduced for the purposes of applying ailments. This obviously increases her chance of applying terror along with the ability to surprise humans or whatever that skill is called.
However it got me thinking that if I wore primary gear that adds ailments to attacks like the sword of singing delusion, maybe she can (sometimes) apply silence to bosses that are normally completely immune?
Is there a death-applying item?
Can't believe I haven't tried this along with Reisen's
Intense Vertigo skill.
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So I just tried to Cheat Engine my way to victory against the Ame-No-Murakumo fight on 12F, after Tenshi
It
runs away after a couple of turns so I guess they expected someone to do that.
Cheat harder!! It's definitely possible to beat it, hence why it drops something. Same thing happens though if you manage to kill him.
Can't believe I haven't tried this along with Reisen's
Intense Vertigo skill.
I've tried this one someone who had a complete resistance to debuffs, and can say it does indeed work.
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So I noticed Kogasa's "arm twisting" skill says that enemy status ailment resistance is reduced for the purposes of applying ailments. This obviously increases her chance of applying terror along with the ability to surprise humans or whatever that skill is called.
However it got me thinking that if I wore primary gear that adds ailments to attacks like the sword of singing delusion, maybe she can (sometimes) apply silence to bosses that are normally completely immune?
Is there a death-applying item?
If Arm-Twisting can do that, then it would justify the 15 skill points cost. It also brings to mind that anyone with that skill will be able to use the spells from the Toxicologist subclass to great effect. This is why I would nickname a Toxicologist Marisa as "Black Mage Marisa", as she would be able to use five different elements(as opposed to just Mystic spells otherwise), and can wreak havoc by dealing out status ailments in addition to dealing somewhat decent damage, due to her high Magic stat.
Can't believe I haven't tried this along with Reisen's
Intense Vertigo skill.
Again, I would want to point out that giving Reisen
the Toxicologist subclass would be quite useful, as those spells, combined with her own, would allow her to cast every status ailment in the game. Plus, Reisen's self buff, Grand Patriot's Elixir, and her "People of the Moon" skill would both allow for the chance for those spells to actually do some damage as well.
On an unrelated note, I had a thought about Meiling's Natural skill(when Meiling is being healed, said heal is increased by 33% per level, max level 2), and came to a question. Would it make Meiling broken if the max level of her Natural skill was raised to 3?
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On an unrelated note, I had a thought about Meiling's Natural skill(when Meiling is being healed, said heal is increased by 33% per level, max level 2), and came to a question. Would it make Meiling broken if the max level of her Natural skill was raised to 3?
I would guess so considering that her selling trait is being self-sufficient.
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I would guess so considering that her selling trait is being self-sufficient.
I remember that someone somewhere commented that Meiling's ability to heal herself was a little lacking, so I figured that since her Natural skill is the key skill for her self-sufficiency, that it could be boosted a bit to help on that. (33% x SLv is the formula for Natural, meaning that Level 2 is 66% and Level 3 is 99%)
I had suggested earlier that perhaps her having the Firm Defense(Buff in DEF and MND every time you take damage) and Easygoing(HP Heal when using Concentrate) skill would be good, and people stated that it would likely make her too good.
That being the case, perhaps a suggestion of Impact Attack(All attacks can now inflict shock) and Dexterity(whenever a ATT or MAG debuff is applied to the skill holder, it is treated as a buff instead) would be better, and not OP? The former skill would give Meiling a reason to use her attack spells, while the latter causes any attempt at weakening Meiling's offensive stats to backfire, boosting them instead(And to clarify on how that matters, remember that her healing spells run off of her ATK stat).
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So after a long time of putting it off, I resumed my Team 9 synergy run. I FINALLY just got past 6F Tenshi at Wriggle 30. It's a shame I couldn't beat her for the item, but I think that would be difficult to pull off with Team 9 without grinding even more, all things considered.
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So I'm gonna use the spoilers here because I dunno if I should or not.
So I just beat the game, my team was Guardian Komachi (Main Tank/Semi-Debuffer), Warrior Meiling (2ndary Tank/Semi-healer/Chip away), Diva Aya (Lead speedy), Enchanter Reimu (Main buffer/healer) in the front line. I had Hina (Main Debuffer/Semi damage outputter), Eirin (Overhealer/Semi-tank), Reisen (Damage output/Debuffer), Sorcerer Marisa (KILL THE GOLEMS) Eiki (Damage Output/Semi-debuffer) Kasen (Damage Output/Semi Debuffer) Tenshi (KILL THE BUFFS/Another tank) and Flandre (Last Resort) in the reserve. It worked out nicely. I just hated it when Ama no Murakumo buffed itself. It's very annoying. Not to mention that Tenshi's Sword of Scarlet Perception doesn't always remove all buffs, and I have it maxed out too. Eh at least I won.
Anyway, I beat the game, and I dunno what to do next. Do I fight that lazy foe on the 16th floor and stuff starts happening after that?
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So I'm gonna use the spoilers here because I dunno if I should or not.
So I just beat the game, my team was Guardian Komachi (Main Tank/Semi-Debuffer), Warrior Meiling (2ndary Tank/Semi-healer/Chip away), Diva Aya (Lead speedy), Enchanter Reimu (Main buffer/healer) in the front line. I had Hina (Main Debuffer/Semi damage outputter), Eirin (Overhealer/Semi-tank), Reisen (Damage output/Debuffer), Sorcerer Marisa (KILL THE GOLEMS) Eiki (Damage Output/Semi-debuffer) Kasen (Damage Output/Semi Debuffer) Tenshi (KILL THE BUFFS/Another tank) and Flandre (Last Resort) in the reserve. It worked out nicely. I just hated it when Ama no Murakumo buffed itself. It's very annoying. Not to mention that Tenshi's Sword of Scarlet Perception doesn't always remove all buffs, and I have it maxed out too. Eh at least I won.
Anyway, I beat the game, and I dunno what to do next. Do I fight that lazy foe on the 16th floor and stuff starts happening after that?
I believe the order is Boss Rush, Strengthen Bosses, Extra Bosses, the bosses on 16F, 17F, 18F. I can't find the post where someone answered this question already.
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My theory that drop rate increases based off of the comparison between party level and enemy level just pretty much confirmed when I got so flooded by Toadstoolsheds after that plant boss on 7F that I didn't even get the stat boosting gems from it. At least they sell for a good price. :V
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I believe the order is Boss Rush, Strengthen Bosses, Extra Bosses, the bosses on 16F, 17F, 18F. I can't find the post where someone answered this question already.
So where do I find the Boss Rush?
:EDIT:
Turns out I needed to update my English patch to 1.203, that's why many things weren't appearing when they should have. Now I see the two boss rushes on each side of the 20th floor, and also see the stair case to the 21th floor.
Either way, what bosses will I fight during the boss rushes?
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this game has a ng+ like the first right? where I can keep the hwole party and reset exp/skill levels/equipment?
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Yup! That's how I started my Team 9 run. ^^;
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My theory that drop rate increases based off of the comparison between party level and enemy level just pretty much confirmed when I got so flooded by Toadstoolsheds after that plant boss on 7F that I didn't even get the stat boosting gems from it. At least they sell for a good price. :V
That is only due to the fact that the minions the boss summons have a chance to drop that item, and throughout the course of the fight, you'll have killed so many of the minions that you got that many items. This does nothing to prove that drop rate increases based off party level versus enemy level.So where do I find the Boss Rush?
:EDIT:
Turns out I needed to update my English patch to 1.203, that's why many things weren't appearing when they should have. Now I see the two boss rushes on each side of the 20th floor, and also see the stair case to the 21th floor.
Either way, what bosses will I fight during the boss rushes?
You fight all the bosses you've encountered thus far, not including Touhou character bosses.
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Blah, figuring out which characters to dump to add new ones i want is painful. I need patch cuz she's patchy, i wanted china cuz she owned in lot1 but fact is momiji is actually doing great. She can self heal but she is sturdier than china, and +hit to party is a nice plus.
I also chucked yuugi out for alice, which was painful. I didnt wan alice more in of itself. But im not as impressed with marisa this game as i was the last. Her master spark just doesnt seem as powerful (nitori's super scope aleays does more actually), AND she seems to take WAY longer to charge her mp up to use it again when in reserve. But im sticking it out so brought alice for malice cannon since i might not take marisa again.
I dont know who ill boot for remi/flan. Bleh.
I hope kanako is better this time around (she wasnt bad but she was boring) and yuyu too. Yuyu wasnt bad the first game minus the fact she could only deal spirit damage, but between that and her not shining until super late cuz mp... She just wasnt practical beyond trash more often than not.
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Momiji has base defense stats of 119/68/48 (HP/Def/Mind), while Meiling is 130/53/48. Thing is, I can prolly agree that Momiji can take physical hits better than Meiling, however, Momiji's abilities are purely offensive. Whilst Meiling's abilities are for the most part defensive. Meiling can sustain herself unlike Momiji, gives defense auras every time she gets a turn, a low ATB attack skill, a moderate damage physical skill, single target ally/self heal, and a powerful self heal. Not to mention that one of her abilities makes her more tanky if she's not in the 1st attack slot, so in a way, Meiling is meant to be a 2nd slot tank. Another thing is that her heals scale very well with her damage, so she can be able to do moderate damage while also being able to sustain damage very easily. Cause of this, this in a way makes Meiling a better tank than Momiji. Momiji is prolly better off going an attacking role. Or a bulky attacker role at least. One problem with Meiling is her sub 100 physical resistance (which is prolly why you notice her not taking hits as well as her). Which I find pretty stupid. She also has a lack of shock and debuff resistance. If you're gonna use Meiling, you're gonna have to go to the Magic library and invest in her Physical resistance, or give her a Tome of Enlightenment - Resistance and boost her resistances. (I did both actually) After that she should be just fine. If you give Meiling subclass warrior, it can really help out her sustaining and damage. She gets attack buffs from normal attacking the enemy (which is something you'll prolly do most of the time during bosses), making her next attacks stronger and increasing her heal strength.
I never played LoT1, so I dunno how great Marisa is in comparison to the last game.
From what I hear, Kanako is real good in this game. Yuyuko seems fine too. She did real good when I was using her against randoms on the 16-18th floors. Yuyuko has 2 spirit, and 2 dark attacks now. So uh, yeah.
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Blah, figuring out which characters to dump to add new ones i want is painful. I need patch cuz she's patchy, i wanted china cuz she owned in lot1 but fact is momiji is actually doing great. She can self heal but she is sturdier than china, and +hit to party is a nice plus.
I also chucked yuugi out for alice, which was painful. I didnt wan alice more in of itself. But im not as impressed with marisa this game as i was the last. Her master spark just doesnt seem as powerful (nitori's super scope aleays does more actually), AND she seems to take WAY longer to charge her mp up to use it again when in reserve. But im sticking it out so brought alice for malice cannon since i might not take marisa again.
I dont know who ill boot for remi/flan. Bleh.
I hope kanako is better this time around (she wasnt bad but she was boring) and yuyu too. Yuyu wasnt bad the first game minus the fact she could only deal spirit damage, but between that and her not shining until super late cuz mp... She just wasnt practical beyond trash more often than not.
Not sure if they fixed Momiji's skill that increases ACC, since there's really no way to check it. Meiling was my ultimate tank in the end, she was so boosted that even the last boss of the extra part could barely put a dent on her, but that's Meiling for you, she was OP in LoT1, and she is still OP here.
Kanako is meh imo, her skills aren't anything special, she can be useful since she has 4 different elements with her spells, so she's versatile.
I really loved Yuyuko, she was my primary SPI damage dealer, dealt with trash very easily because of her high DTH chance, and was able to manipulate the flow of battle against bosses because she was able to reduce their ATB bar. However, she lost some utility with that at the end though, because bosses just filled their bar so fast, it wasn't doing much at that point. Some of her spells were changed to DRK too, so she's not just a one-trick pony now.
I kept Marisa all the way because Master Spark actually hit multiple target instead of just one with Nitori's Super Scope 3D. It's hard to compare their damage since I never used Nitori, but Marisa has a lot more skills to increase her damage (MP boost, MAG boost, Arm-twisting, Sudden Impulse, Magic Training, which all benefit her MS), while Nitori needed to stay on the field and build up with Overheating to be more useful, and her boost skill didn't benefit her damage at all. Marisa also had a better growth on MAG than Nitori did on ATK. I never bothered with Alice for MAlice Cannon, because it only increased Marisa's SPD, and I had Aya at the start of the fight to boost her up.
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I kept Marisa all the way because Master Spark actually hit multiple target instead of just one with Nitori's Super Scope 3D. It's hard to compare their damage since I never used Nitori, but Marisa has a lot more skills to increase her damage (MP boost, MAG boost, Arm-twisting, Sudden Impulse, Magic Training, which all benefit her MS), while Nitori needed to stay on the field and build up with Overheating to be more useful, and her boost skill didn't benefit her damage at all. Marisa also had a better growth on MAG than Nitori did on ATK. I never bothered with Alice for MAlice Cannon, because it only increased Marisa's SPD, and I had Aya at the start of the fight to boost her up.
Well Nitori has the whole ability that doubles her bonuses from main/sub equipments. Which is just plain incredible. She can reach incredible hits in stats with it, oh my god. With the right items, she can be a bulky nuker with incredible resistances all at once. Rinnosuke with max high resistance tier resistances. She is really good, I swear. Marisa is also really good too, if you give her the sorcerer subclass, she does even better. She won't have to rely on concentrating so much if she gets it. Plus, Master Spark is just incredible. Does loads of damage even to bosses with high mystic resist. Master Spark is an absolute must when you fight Ama no Murakumo. When 3rd phase comes and Ama no Murakumo summons the golems, switch to Marisa immediately and spark. It's guaranteed to kill them. At least it was for me. Marisa had 10900~ ish magic, with 19% bonus magic due to sorcerer passive, but I'm sure it would even without the +19% magic.
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Man, i want the spell formulas for this game so bad. They arent even up on the jp wiki qq.
How were they discovered for the first game? I know they were included in that special disk extra but they were up on the jp (and later english before special disk too iirc) wiki before that.
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Man, i want the spell formulas for this game so bad. They arent even up on the jp wiki qq.
How were they discovered for the first game? I know they were included in that special disk extra but they were up on the jp (and later english before special disk too iirc) wiki before that.
Someone probably just disassembled the game and figured it out from there.
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Learning of the formulas would help soooo much. That way you can theory craft and stuff.
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Yeah, pretty sure youmu's sucks.. I mean her slash of eternity at rank 4 (back when I was still cruising floor 4 and 5, so rank 4 is high) would hit for like 1-2k only...0 if a tanky boss. meanwhile kogasa would hit the same amount with her middle attack, which is fairly spammable, and pretty average in terms of nukeage...and had half the delay, and caused terror, and caused mnd down. AND kogasa had better stats in general (youmu had better defense iirc but her level rate was much slower so not really).
Rumia's nuke seems extremely potent now... it was already a great formula in LoT1, but her unimpressive magic caused it to be meh overall (but made it good if you spoiled her a bit in terms of skillups and magic growth), but now... now it's absolutely devastating...does like 3/4 of a master spark! AND she seems somewhat tankier than lot1 to boot.
But yeah, I understand marisa has arm twisting now, so master spark works on all bosses. and is multihit..not sure how good that is, so far multihit is virtually useless for bosses as it was for LoT1 (they just aren't common enough to be a selling point). But even despite that, I've never seen master spark hit for more than 12k... Nitori's superscope has hit for 70-something k.... I almost never see it hit for less than 35k. I'm on floor 8 btw.
That said marisa seems better at simply spamming magic missle on bosses than before (prob the arm-twisting).
Not complaining or anything, just observerving. I'll prob spout my "final" opinions on each character much later. I hope tao-hao laby 2 gets an expansion with a database thingie like 1 did eventually.
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I don't really agree with you. She's kind of weak through early and mid game, but around 13-16th floorish Youmu becomes fairly strong. That may be because of buffs I gave her. When you're
trying to recruit Yuyuko, she's one of the best people for the fight. She does really good too. Ironically.
The thing I don't like about Youmu is how expensive her spells are. (At least she has improved concentrate) I think as far as base stats, Youmu's skills deal mediocre damage, but when she gets buffed, her damage goes up a whole lot compared to [insert other person] getting buffed.
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For some reason I decided that perhaps I should try the first game again, except this time with a random team of 12. And my results were...
Sanae
Iku
Wriggle
Reimu
Nitori
Aya
Eiki
Suika
Yuuka
Suwako
Reisen
Komachi
I got a good variety, but the main problem I see is that I don't really have a decent tank besides Komachi. She's great to an extent, but she's not the best for absolutely nulling damage.
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Whilst it's a questionable idea and potentially costs you a powerful attacker (depending on how you set it up), Nitori's Maintenance and self-buff can make her a good tank... I think? Part of it admittedly is that she can get a godly amount of affinity which works really well on bosses that only use one or two elements.
edit:Oh, oh wait, you mean the FIRST game. FIRST game. Right. Komachi isn't going to work as a tank in that one at all. You have to heal her -constantly- or she falls over. Yuuka has alright DEF and whilst normally you could use her as a second-slot tank with a MAG build to spam flower shot, you might have to build her full-def and cry as she becomes mostly useless for anything other than soaking damage.
You might want to reroll, though. Apart from lacking a tank your team almost looks kinda super-standard. It'd still be cool if you haven't used most of those characters much, I suppose, but having Reimu/Iku and one of the single target healers, you've got OP-Nitori and Reisen for covering all the debuffing bases, several other good nukers and Wriggle's PSN is godly maingame (albiet it's more likely you haven't enjoyed that perk), yeah. If you just switched one of them with Meiling it'd be a completely standard party with the addition of a plus-disk character or two- something you'd be likely to end up with making a party normally whilst going for having a Really Good Party.
...completely up to you though of course! Your only good general-purpose tanks being DEF-build Yuuka and Wriggle (probably Aya too since those are tanks that will go down sooner or later and she can spamswitch and spd buff) may be sufficient to introduce struggle for your party and make the run interesting, especially if you haven't used most of these characters for an extended period of time. Reimu and Iku will be great tanks when you need worry about MND only (this happens more than you might think) and Yuugi is there for the like, one boss that only uses DEF attacks :V
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Decided to reroll, this time banning a bunch of chars from the RNG pool for the sake of picking chars who aren't either super nukers or super tanks, but without denying healing or other support possibilities. In that case, I get...
Maribel
Keine
Alice
Mystia
Wriggle
Komachi
Kanako
Youmu
Suwako
Aya
Utsuho
Chen
...For the purposes of not entirely denying myself healing, I'm going to replace Utsuho with Sanae. That should be good, I guess?
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Wriggle can first slot tank if you put in the effort. I think your second roll is a harder set than the first one because you lack a burst damage nuker. The first roll has Iku/Nitori combo, Reisen that Parallaxel sang praises about and Reimu for the all round solidness. The second roll has pretty much the same selection for tanks but no healer or outstanding buffer.
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I did the second roll solely for it to BE harder. I mean, I did it because Serela kind of made me realize it wouldn't have been too much harder besides the fact I lacked a super tank (and yes, I know Wriggle can play tank, I've known that forever), so I banned super nukers like Nitori, etc, then when I got no healers in that roll I swapped out Utsuho for Sanae because I am not running without a healer.
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IMO you should replace for Reimu and not Sanae. That party has more semi-durable options and introduces Keine who can tank alright, but Sanae's support is hampered by how terribly slow it is, plus it's expensive and Sanae isn't as durable as Reimu or Minoriko. Minoriko would be a compromise since it's cheaper, faster, and tankier, even if it's not multi-target like Reimu.
Also what do you mean Pesco? That party has Youmu and Suwako (and chen maybekindasorta? If she can stay out long enough). Nitori's better but that's only because she got buffed to OP tier in the Special Disk, and there's still has Keine for offense buffing at least. Wriggle outputs damage with the best of them too, until Plus.
although yeah it's harder, but the first party was almost as good as a traditionally designed one apart from lack of meiling
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Ehh, I already started, but for the hell of it and for the sake of being random and putting my trust in RNGs that hate me, let's ask Chatzy!
(http://puu.sh/7zdUn.png)
...Minoriko it is! Sorry Sanae, you managed to get a couple levels... and in the end I haven't really used you for anything, so it's not like it matters beyond putting a little bit of skill points into you.
EDIT: Also yeah, to be fair, the second roll had me banning a lot of commonly used characters (yes,including Reimu) to make it a bit more interesting and challenging. The first roll is more akin to a traditional party because I had no bans on that roll, and then I changed my mind afterwards.
Also I forgot how annoying early game was with SP. Using late-game and Plus Disk chars isn't helping matters either. Oh well, it won't last forever. ^^;
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Even with a "proper" early game team floor 2 is a pain imo... My least fave floor until the one with that damn binary teleporter switch and the fish sword things that 1-2shot people with slash dive before even fast characters can move.
That said ive been thinking of maybe on my next playthru, to make the ultimate tank team. Tanky charcters only. I'm thinking of just highering the 12 with something along the lines of whoever has the higest sum of 0.3(hp) + 0.8(mnd) + 1.0(def).
Maybe i should fact affinities too but i think thatll be too much work for little difference.
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Blech. Due to some mess ups I lost my save file. Would anyone with an endgame save be able to send me it for some note taking? Mainly need it for the bestiary.
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Blech. Due to some mess ups I lost my save file. Would anyone with an endgame save be able to send me it for some note taking? Mainly need it for the bestiary.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/e2sbahik74a0vr9/save1.rar
Has everything unlocked
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/e2sbahik74a0vr9/save1.rar
Has everything unlocked
Thank you! :)
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For Thlaby 2, I'm on the 8th floor and in the southeasternish corner there's an event with utsuho.. do I need battlepoints with her?
Also is there a "you need this many battle points for each character" guide somewhere?
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For Thlaby 2, I'm on the 8th floor and in the southeasternish corner there's an event with utsuho.. do I need battlepoints with her?
Also is there a "you need this many battle points for each character" guide somewhere?
I believe you need points for both Minoriko and Okuu to clear that event. There isn't a guide but the BP requirements are towards character recruitment so if you want to spoil yourself, look at the character pages for LoT2.
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For Thlaby 2, I'm on the 8th floor and in the southeasternish corner there's an event with utsuho.. do I need battlepoints with her?
Also is there a "you need this many battle points for each character" guide somewhere?
Just the wiki on the Character's page. And yes you do. Here are all of the Character ones and who they require. In spoilers
Ran: Chen [50-100-150-200]. 4F-9F
Flan: Remilia, Meiling, Patchy, and Sakuya [300 BP each]
Yuuka: 3F (Minoriko 100 BP); 5F (Wriggle 120 BP); 8F (Utsuho 120 BP and Minoriko 200 BP); 10F (Nitori 150 BP and Minoriko 300 BP); 13F (Cirno 200 BP and Minoriko 400 BP)
Shikieiki: Komachi [400]
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Thanks... blah stupid utsuho.
Seems like the enemies on these jungle floors give crap exp.. I mean I've been getting the same amount since 4f/5f ffs. Not that I actually need levels, I'm already too far ahead cuz I wanted to kill tenshi but still.
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Thanks... blah stupid utsuho.
Seems like the enemies on these jungle floors give crap exp.. I mean I've been getting the same amount since 4f/5f ffs. Not that I actually need levels, I'm already too far ahead cuz I wanted to kill tenshi but still.
Do you have Nazrin, by chance? Because she can increase that amount quite a bit when she's killing stuff. And if experience isn't what you're after, then she can help in grinding for items(good for equips and stuff that makes good equips) and gold(massive Voile point boosting is a go, particularly useful for raising Elemental resistances to at least neutral(100), if not for half damage(200), without equipment) as well.
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No, but im aware, and you could just as easily use her on the floor 4-6 enemies, fact is jungle enemies still give crap exp relative to the water enemies in relation to dungeon depth =p
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What about the items and gold that they drop? Perhaps the crappy exp is because of what items and/or how much gold they drop. It would also explain Nazrin in a nutshell, because the enemies aren't for the exp, but for the drops and gold. If they drop a lot of materials, check out what you can craft with them, for it could just be that you can make some really useful equips from the stuff.
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I am sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but I downloaded the 1.203 patch for labyrinth of touhou 2 and when i try to start it up it gives me a black window and shuts down a few seconds later. Is there a file I am missing?
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not sure, but you didn't get the english 1.203 patch without updating the japanese files first did you?
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I'm kind of getting back into LoT2's post-game. Yesterday,
I became the Cookie Monster and ate all of the Cookies. Wriggle for poison and Hina for -50% debuffs on everything are what made it manageable. I know some people hate that encounter due to luck being a factor more than with most others, but man, is it fun with how tense it is. Barely made it too, Kasen killed the last Cookie just in time with a normal attack, as she was out of MP. It's really a fight where you haven't won until the very moment you've won, no matter how well it goes.
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I kinda doubt it, but hey, you never know... do the enhancer sub class passives which enhance buffs or add heals to buffs affect reserve row members for ran's buff all 12 spells? Edit: nm I guess it does, just noticed the wiki said the hp is halfed as well, herp...wow, that's amazing.. it actually works, zounds.
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I kinda doubt it, but hey, you never know... do the enhancer sub class passives which enhance buffs or add heals to buffs affect reserve row members for ran's buff all 12 spells? Edit: nm I guess it does, just noticed the wiki said the hp is halfed as well, herp...wow, that's amazing.. it actually works, zounds.
And that is what makes Enhancer Ran
so awesome.
Well, that and the fact that she can supercharge Chen by Concentrating... Makes me think about the Yakumo Family skill and how it seems to have quite the synergy.
By the by, which subclass do you guys think work best with:
A. Yukari
B. Yuyuko
C. Eiki
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Qq, seems like patchy got nerfed. Her spells seem far less powerful than lot1. For example, her royal flare isnt even outdamaging asteroid belt or fantasy seal, and her silent selene, even ranked up for me, isnt outdamaging magic missle, rumia's nuke, or alice's.
Furthermore even in lot1, she could survive physical row attacks in the far right without much issue, but this time around bosses often 1 shot her with their group attacks, they didnt so that in lot1 unless it was needle parade, arrow rain, etc.
Im expecting remilia to stink compared to how she was too qq.
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Qq, seems like patchy got nerfed. Her spells seem far less powerful than lot1. For example, her royal flare isnt even outdamaging asteroid belt or fantasy seal, and her silent selene, even ranked up for me, isnt outdamaging magic missle, rumia's nuke, or alice's.
Furthermore even in lot1, she could survive physical row attacks in the far right without much issue, but this time around bosses often 1 shot her with their group attacks, they didnt so that in lot1 unless it was needle parade, arrow rain, etc.
Im expecting remilia to stink compared to how she was too qq.
Didn't play LoT1 before, but how did you compare those spells damage? I mean you have to consider their skills, stats, damage formula, type vs enemy's elemental affinities, enemy's defense and mind. :V
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Qq, seems like patchy got nerfed. Her spells seem far less powerful than lot1. For example, her royal flare isnt even outdamaging asteroid belt or fantasy seal, and her silent selene, even ranked up for me, isnt outdamaging magic missle, rumia's nuke, or alice's.
Furthermore even in lot1, she could survive physical row attacks in the far right without much issue, but this time around bosses often 1 shot her with their group attacks, they didnt so that in lot1 unless it was needle parade, arrow rain, etc.
Im expecting remilia to stink compared to how she was too qq.
In my opinion, Patchy did indeed get nerfed, but not as much as I initially thought. You just need to take into consideration that the skill system affects damage output as well, and that making full use of it probably will get you close to how Patchy was in LoT1.
Group attacks (Otherwise generally referred to as multi-target attacks) =/= Row attacks (For you programmers out there, in my daze of sleepiness, I almost wrote != instead). Needle Parade and Arrow Rain were multi-target attacks I believe so it makes sense.
Remilia is actually pretty decent, though she's not nearly as good of an offtank as she used to be.
And that is what makes Enhancer Ran
so awesome.
Well, that and the fact that she can supercharge Chen by Concentrating... Makes me think about the Yakumo Family skill and how it seems to have quite the synergy.
By the by, which subclass do you guys think work best with:
A. Yukari
B. Yuyuko
C. Eiki
A: Magician, without a doubt. That free cast could mean the world, plus Magician will help her recover MP faster. Not sure how much use Magic Transfer will be to her though.
B: Sorcerer / Magician. The damage route for more raw damage or the utility route for more MP to be useful.
C: Warrior / Gambler (without High Risk, High Reward). She's best suited for damage and more of it.
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Didn't play LoT1 before, but how did you compare those spells damage? I mean you have to consider their skills, stats, damage formula, type vs enemy's elemental affinities, enemy's defense and mind.
Umm, yeah. duh. Basically when LoT1 was hot and new people criticized me for factoring in TOO much stuff in addition to the obvious, such as skill point inflation being different for each character, and synergy with the other 11 members.
I didn't mention the Variables because I'm speaking generally, Patchy will do inferior damage to other magic nukes. Specifically, I'm calling out the damage formulas.. They are hidden this time around, but they certainly seem to have been nerfed hard for patchy this time around (or they were left the same and most of everyone else's were buffed). For example, in LoT1, I could spend all my level up bonuses on her mnd, not even her magic, and her royal flare would blow the socks off every other aoe trash nuke in the game unless they were resistant to fire. Even on enemies weak to other elements, it was often better to just royal flare their ass, guaranteed ownage... drawback was she was slow and squishy as @%#%@#..
Silent Selene was as good a boss nuke as royal flare was aoe.....Quite probably one of the best in the game inferior only to nitori's cannon, eiki's judgement, yuugi's KOi3, and youmu's slash of eternity (which also seems feeble in lot2)...That's assuming elemental affinities being neutral, and physcal/magic defenses on the enemy being compareable. Now it does less damage than magic missle resistances or not, and if there ARE resistances, marisa ignores them, and patchy does not.
What's even worse is patchy levels up slower, so you think she'd inherantly be better if you unify everyone's levels. But no, even though I'm unifying levels for the boss encounters, and even though patchy has more exp under her belt (since more expensive levels), she still hits less hard than all my magic nukes, on any boss, regardless of affinities, or what have you...and I spent her level up bonuses on magic this time around too =/.
Subclasses and whatever are not relevant currently since She has none for me atm, and so does her competition (I gave enhancer to raymoo and ran, and sentinel to momiji), any benefits they offer her will affect the others as well. Oh yeah, and some characters I'm comparing her to have skills they have yet to learn that increase their damage for certain situations, I already got hers because there are few, and the leftovers revolve around weird things like giving others mp, resisting elements that you just used, etc.
In my opinion, Patchy did indeed get nerfed, but not as much as I initially thought. You just need to take into consideration that the skill system affects damage output as well, and that making full use of it probably will get you close to how Patchy was in LoT1.
What, but she has very few skills that increase damage, and all of them combined don't hold a candle to ones other characters may have alone like arm-twisting, or maintenance, or whatever. I bet even Magical training does more.
Group attacks (Otherwise generally referred to as multi-target attacks) =/= Row attacks (For you programmers out there, in my daze of sleepiness, I almost wrote != instead). Needle Parade and Arrow Rain were multi-target attacks I believe so it makes sense.
I know, that's my point... group attacks were rare and predictable in lot1. Which is why she was so easy to keep alive even without switching her out. My point is in LoT2 that isn't the case because either a: All those "weak" attacks like magic wind or whatever in LoT2 are now group and not row and are owning her on virtually every boss... or b: Now she's so much squishier (or the enemies stronger), that even though she's on the far end of the row attack, it's still owning her.
point is it's almost like every boss has needle parade or arrow rain as far as patchy as concerned, what I mean is they have a spell that will simply smoke her ass, in LoT1, only the extreme few bosses with true-group aoe physical attacks (rare) could do so, and almost all of them were predictable (hibachi twins did it every 7 turns, tenshi/youmu would focus first, etc...only boss I really recall being unpredictable like this were some post-game rematch bosses like chinaV2).
Anyway, that person asking questions about what subclass for each character. I cannot say since I haven't touched any of them (aside form that one floor 3 boss fight which doesn't count).
However, one possibility (remote I know), is if you are using Yuyu for her shock/ atb bar deleting features... maybe monk for her.. simply so she can spam them faster and faster and reduce boss bars better... obviously it's a bad spec for her for general purposes, but if you're using her specifically for that (no clue if that's even viable or not in 2, it wouldn't be in 1 without some over leveling), monk is the way to go =P.
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What, but she has very few skills that increase damage, and all of them combined don't hold a candle to ones other characters may have alone like arm-twisting, or maintenance, or whatever. I bet even Magical training does more.
What? She and Marisa both have 3 damage increasing skills each:
Grand Incantation, Girl of Knowledge and Shade, and Residents of the Scarlet Devil Mansion for Patchy
VS
Magic Training, Arm Twisting and Main Character Marisa for Marisa.
Girl of Knowledge and Shade is comparable to Arm Twisting.
Residents of the Scarlet Devil Mansion and Main Character Marisa are both situational (more so for Marisa but whatever) and thus are comparable.
The only questionable thing is how much Magic Training is affecting MYS damage VS Grand Incantation's end result of doing 1.2x damage each turn.
Maintenance is probably really good, but I haven't used Nitori so I don't know exactly how good. Maybe her stats are subpar enough that Maintenance isn't as overpowered as it sounds, I don't know.
I know, that's my point... group attacks were rare and predictable in lot1. Which is why she was so easy to keep alive even without switching her out. My point is in LoT2 that isn't the case because either a: All those "weak" attacks like magic wind or whatever in LoT2 are now group and not row and are owning her on virtually every boss... or b: Now she's so much squishier (or the enemies stronger), that even though she's on the far end of the row attack, it's still owning her.
point is it's almost like every boss has needle parade or arrow rain as far as patchy as concerned, what I mean is they have a spell that will simply smoke her ass, in LoT1, only the extreme few bosses with true-group aoe physical attacks (rare) could do so, and almost all of them were predictable (hibachi twins did it every 7 turns, tenshi/youmu would focus first, etc...only boss I really recall being unpredictable like this were some post-game rematch bosses like chinaV2).
Just because the bosses are "stronger" (I actually felt like they were weaker this time around, at least until post game) doesn't mean that should be a point against Patchy. She's fragile as hell, as is Marisa so Patchy not being able to take hits like she used to in LoT1 is a moot point imo. No squishy characters could take hits like they used to in LoT1, unless of course they're no longer squishy (ahem Mokou).
EDIT: I don't know what you're talking about, Silent Selene has consistently been out damaging Magic Missle, according to my tests. No equips on either girl, Voile stats nearly identical, all level up bonuses spent on MAG, both spells are level 1, Marisa with Magic Training and Arm Twisting, which Patchy has Girl of Knowledge and Shade and Grand Incantation.
I didn't even make use of Grand Incantation, her flat damage is already out damaging Marisa. I haven't tried Royal Flare vs Asteroid Belt, but I'd wager that I'd get the same result.
Also, I don't know about you, but characters in my 4th slot generally don't stick around after their attack has been used so Patchy becoming more like glass doesn't mean much imo. To me, Grand Incantation is high risk, high reward, and so more often than not, I don't make use of it unless for some reason, there's a safe time for Patchy to concentrate.
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If Patchouli being a glass cannon is a problem, would it make sense to raise her mind? That sort of tactic worked for Minoriko, and Grand Incantation(max level of this skill multiplies the effect of a attack or healing spell by 2.4) can make up for the lack of damage somewhat, can't it(pretend that she's a magically inclined mix between Youmu(concentrate being used for best results) and Yuugi (Slow, good stats rock, bad stats flat out suck), both on offense and defense)? Also, about her defensive skill "Patchy's Philosopher Stone", two questions:
1. Does the spell that triggers it have to be a spell that does damage to enemies? If not, then the elements in the support based subclasses become important, because she can use said spells to her advantage.
2. Does using Concentrate dispel the effect of said skill? Because if it doesn't, then you can safely use concentrate as long as you can safely predict what elements the enemy is using at the moment.
In other words, I think that the idea behind her defensive skill is to predict your opponent's moves and plan accordingly. There are bosses that mostly rely on one element, and Patchouli can turn that against them by casting the right spell to become resistant, concentrate for a turn, and then blast the opponent to dust.
Given the nature of that style of defense, however, having a dedicated switcher on hand(Aya(fast and "free turn spell"), Rinnosuke(Can be built to be tough and fast, and switch in anyone with a timebar of 9100 out of 10000), and Yukari("free turn for everyone" spell and a skill that's a godsend for anyone that's good against one type of attack(attack or magic) but weak to the other) are good choices for this, I think) would help immensely.
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If Patchouli being a glass cannon is a problem, would it make sense to raise her mind? That sort of tactic worked for Minoriko, and Grand Incantation(max level of this skill multiplies the effect of a attack or healing spell by 2.4) can make up for the lack of damage somewhat, can't it(pretend that she's a magically inclined mix between Youmu(concentrate being used for best results) and Yuugi (Slow, good stats rock, bad stats flat out suck), both on offense and defense)? Also, about her defensive skill "Patchy's Philosopher Stone", two questions:
1. Does the spell that triggers it have to be a spell that does damage to enemies? If not, then the elements in the support based subclasses become important, because she can use said spells to her advantage.
2. Does using Concentrate dispel the effect of said skill? Because if it doesn't, then you can safely use concentrate as long as you can safely predict what elements the enemy is using at the moment.
In other words, I think that the idea behind her defensive skill is to predict your opponent's moves and plan accordingly. There are bosses that mostly rely on one element, and Patchouli can turn that against them by casting the right spell to become resistant, concentrate for a turn, and then blast the opponent to dust.
Given the nature of that style of defense, however, having a dedicated switcher on hand(Aya(fast and "free turn spell"), Rinnosuke(Can be built to be tough and fast, and switch in anyone with a timebar of 9100 out of 10000), and Yukari("free turn for everyone" spell and a skill that's a godsend for anyone that's good against one type of attack(attack or magic) but weak to the other) are good choices for this, I think) would help immensely.
Using concentrate gives Pache extra Physical resistance. :V
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Using concentrate gives Pache extra Physical resistance. :V
And, as you can guess from this, all support spells will indeed also function for it. :V
Sadly I don't think -70% physical can save her with that abysmal def/hp and her base physical resist already nearly doubling damage taken. If you threw some physical resisting accessories on her, -maybe-, (two could get her final damage taken to roughly 10%) but is it really worth it at that point? XD
edit:Actually... if you gave her a First Aid Kit, Patchouli's HP will nearly -double-. (6.8 to 11.2 base HP value; for reference Reimu has 12.4) She may be able to do some tanking work, at that point, if you're careful.
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Sadly I don't think -70% physical can save her with that abysmal def/hp and her base physical resist already nearly doubling damage taken. If you threw some physical resisting accessories on her, -maybe-, (two could get her final damage taken to roughly 10%) but is it really worth it at that point? XD
So, Voile doesn't count as an option to fix her weaknesses? I would think that, as a rule, it would make sense to boost all "under 100" resistances to 100 for all characters via the Library. Expensive it may be, but that's what Nazrin is for.
edit:Actually... if you gave her a First Aid Kit, Patchouli's HP will nearly -double-. (6.8 to 11.2 base HP value; for reference Reimu has 12.4) She may be able to do some tanking work, at that point, if you're careful.
That, and some boosting from the Library should help in that. Hell, isn't boosting the speed of everyone via Voile spending a needed tactic to help characters to keep up with enemies at some point?
And, as you can guess from this, all support spells will indeed also function for it. :V
That's good. That could help if used right.
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im bit embarrased to make an account only for this but anyone knows how to get past this rock? (https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10155024_10201062963491164_825964730_n.jpg) thanks
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Voile boosts aren't god. Resistance boosts are not as abusable as they were in LoT1 and you can't just fix Patchouli's low HP. (Although first aid kit sure goes a long way, holy crap)
That being said, I haven't hit endgame so I don't know how the price/effect scales there, but it still seems like you shouldn't be able to really fix those things even then (And you definitely can't beforehand, especially on Hard Mode where you literally just can't) It helps, of course, but.
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I cannot seem to find the event of Flandre after meeting the requirements to actually see the event as said in the wiki (One that needed Mokou and Kaguya so an event will appear in 12F) I am worried, or is there a path from 13F that leads to 12F with the event with it? I just wanted to start 13F with Flandre on the team already.
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im bit embarrased to make an account only for this but anyone knows how to get past this rock? (https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10155024_10201062963491164_825964730_n.jpg) thanks
You need 116 Sub Equipments to get past it
I cannot seem to find the event of Flandre after meeting the requirements to actually see the event as said in the wiki (One that needed Mokou and Kaguya so an event will appear in 12F) I am worried, or is there a path from 13F that leads to 12F with the event with it? I just wanted to start 13F with Flandre on the team already.
You don't need to find another path, it is behind here. You just need to play with the switches to get past the block.
(http://imgur.com/84q5xNk.jpg)
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When I first used Patchy, her attacks seem kind of lack luster to me also. But eventually after some investment, Patchy became a godly elemental nuke. I also invested a lot in Patchy's Mind, and she has godly mind, and from what I experienced with Parsee, another character with godly mind (Patchy's mind is nearly as high as Parsee'), if you used her against a magic boss, she'd be taking 0 damage, especially so since she SHOULD be in the final slot. (Parsee was taking 0 damage in the 2nd slot). So yeah, Patchy is definitely fine with magic bosses.
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I did my own testing, and yeah, seems silent selene hits mystic-neutral enemies for like. 15-20% more damage than magic missle. I guess I was mistaken since I wasn't factoring in the fact that marisa would always have better +mag buffs in battle thanks to concentration...still though, that is with equal levels, no equipment, a higher silent slene rank, and the fact hat patchy is way slower (so magic missle still probably does better dps if not higher numbers per burst), and way more squishy to anything with any physical attacks whatsoever. However that was still with equal level, which is an unfair advantage for patchy since she levels slower.
Yeah I know she can magic tank, she always could, I was qqing that it seems that every boss now has some kind of group physical attack, making her mincemeat to it, whereas before most did not. As for grand incantation, she's just too slow and too squishy now (now that every boss seems to smoke her with some kinda group physical if I leave her out) to utilize it.
And library stats aren't an argument. They increase stats by a %, so bad stats will be increased by less actual value...for more skillpoints I might add (generally, not always, but generally characters who are bad at a stat will have to pay more to raise it a rank in the library, speaking of which, marisa also needs less gold to increase her mag than patchy, it's very slight though, like 7% cheaper or something). You can, and should spend them on stats that ARE useable to get better returns for less. The amount of skillpoints needed to buff patchy's defense and hp to actually survive physical attacks that would kill her would quite simply debilitate your overall party growth too much, like buffing yuugi's mnd, or whatever.
Elemental resistances are slightly different since you get increased returns the lower the affinities are, so pouring lots of points into a really bad affinity will often result in huge differences.
As for first aid, that goes along the lines of skillpoint stats like hp up skill, and mag up skill. These are actually better on bad stats than good ones (unlike the library), because adding 1 to 5 is more significant than adding 1 to 20, it adds, doesn't use a %. Most of the items that do these things have penalties like -5mp or whatever though, which is obviously a major issue for early game, but is way more manageable later on. In addition, the benefits given via these items do NOT decrease in value later on.
Bottom line is I'm still convinced patchy isn't good this time around.. she isn't a glass cannon, she's glass meh. Slow, no hp, no utility (don't say subclass, anyone can have subclasses, and the ones that have utility generally don't benefit from sky-high mag), slow leveling, and I was comparing her to marisa's magic missle, which is HARDLY "cannon" tier nuke, it is in fact my DEFINITIVE "ok" tier nuke. AS for mnd tanking, yeah, I'm thinking of just replacing patchy with parsee in a future playthru, I'll play her to the end though just cuz I always used her in LoT1 and playing LoT2 without using her until the end would just be wron (same with remi, but I still haven't gotten her).
BTW, it seems that characters charge mp really really slow when they are in the reserve. Does this seem to speed up later on in the game? I can practically kill a half-dead boss and see someone in my reserve has the same mp as when I put them in the back (before boss half-dead). Kinda makes me value those "get x* skill level times more sp when charging" skills alot!
Also, Tenshi the 2nd was a brutal fight for me, by far the hardest...Actually the only fight that was remotely hard so far this playthru aside from the first time I had to kill that 9 eye'd horror or whatever it was called FOE on the 4th floor...
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I did my own testing, and yeah, seems silent selene hits mystic-neutral enemies for like. 15-20% more damage than magic missle. I guess I was mistaken since I wasn't factoring in the fact that marisa would always have better +mag buffs in battle thanks to concentration...still though, that is with equal levels, no equipment, a higher silent slene rank, and the fact hat patchy is way slower (so magic missle still probably does better dps if not higher numbers per burst), and way more squishy to anything with any physical attacks whatsoever. However that was still with equal level, which is an unfair advantage for patchy since she levels slower.
Yeah I know she can magic tank, she always could, I was qqing that it seems that every boss now has some kind of group physical attack, making her mincemeat to it, whereas before most did not. As for grand incantation, she's just too slow and too squishy now (now that every boss seems to smoke her with some kinda group physical if I leave her out) to utilize it.
And library stats aren't an argument. They increase stats by a %, so bad stats will be increased by less actual value...for more skillpoints I might add (generally, not always, but generally characters who are bad at a stat will have to pay more to raise it a rank in the library, speaking of which, marisa also needs less gold to increase her mag than patchy, it's very slight though, like 7% cheaper or something). You can, and should spend them on stats that ARE useable to get better returns for less. The amount of skillpoints needed to buff patchy's defense and hp to actually survive physical attacks that would kill her would quite simply debilitate your overall party growth too much, like buffing yuugi's mnd, or whatever.
Elemental resistances are slightly different since you get increased returns the lower the affinities are, so pouring lots of points into a really bad affinity will often result in huge differences.
As for first aid, that goes along the lines of skillpoint stats like hp up skill, and mag up skill. These are actually better on bad stats than good ones (unlike the library), because adding 1 to 5 is more significant than adding 1 to 20, it adds, doesn't use a %. Most of the items that do these things have penalties like -5mp or whatever though, which is obviously a major issue for early game, but is way more manageable later on. In addition, the benefits given via these items do NOT decrease in value later on.
Bottom line is I'm still convinced patchy isn't good this time around.. she isn't a glass cannon, she's glass meh. Slow, no hp, no utility (don't say subclass, anyone can have subclasses, and the ones that have utility generally don't benefit from sky-high mag), slow leveling, and I was comparing her to marisa's magic missle, which is HARDLY "cannon" tier nuke, it is in fact my DEFINITIVE "ok" tier nuke. AS for mnd tanking, yeah, I'm thinking of just replacing patchy with parsee in a future playthru, I'll play her to the end though just cuz I always used her in LoT1 and playing LoT2 without using her until the end would just be wron (same with remi, but I still haven't gotten her).
Can her speed, at least, be remedied by Voile?
And I do actually think that the least that one should aim for is 150-200 minimum for all elemental resistance(200 resist reduces damage by half, unless I'm mistaken), provided that said resist isn't innately higher than that from the start.
Also, you said that stat up skills are better for bad stats? Then perhaps a Speed Boost can help with her slowness, and HP Boost granting her a chance to take a hit, yes?
On a related note, does anyone know where the best place to get the various Boost skill Books? Or are those actually finite in number?
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Bottom line is I'm still convinced patchy isn't good this time around.. she isn't a glass cannon, she's glass meh. Slow, no hp, no utility (don't say subclass, anyone can have subclasses, and the ones that have utility generally don't benefit from sky-high mag), slow leveling, and I was comparing her to marisa's magic missle, which is HARDLY "cannon" tier nuke, it is in fact my DEFINITIVE "ok" tier nuke. AS for mnd tanking, yeah, I'm thinking of just replacing patchy with parsee in a future playthru, I'll play her to the end though just cuz I always used her in LoT1 and playing LoT2 without using her until the end would just be wron (same with remi, but I still haven't gotten her).
BTW, it seems that characters charge mp really really slow when they are in the reserve. Does this seem to speed up later on in the game? I can practically kill a half-dead boss and see someone in my reserve has the same mp as when I put them in the back (before boss half-dead). Kinda makes me value those "get x* skill level times more sp when charging" skills alot!
Also, Tenshi the 2nd was a brutal fight for me, by far the hardest...Actually the only fight that was remotely hard so far this playthru aside from the first time I had to kill that 9 eye'd horror or whatever it was called FOE on the 4th floor...
Well yeah, during early-mid game Patchy is pretty... risky. Like really. Beware though that not ever boss has a row physical attack. The only bosses that have row physical attacks are the ones that high attack are primarily physical attackers. (Until you fight things like Alice) There will be magic damage bosses later game that Patchy can shine in. Also, I wouldn't call Magic Missile a nuke. It's an attack with solid damage and okish ATB afterwards, combined with Marisa's high speed and high magic it will be racking up lots of damage. Patchy on the other hand, all of her attacks are nukes. They do a lot more damage than what Marisa could do with Magic missile (without concentration) after 3 hits. You see, the thing about Patchy is that she's really not supposed to be a stay in character, though she can definitely stay in during magic bosses. If you fight a physical boss, you switch her in and out immediately. (And honestly, I don't even wanna use Patchy at all during a physical boss fight.) Patchy does get a lot better late game though. Just like Rinnosuke. (You've been giving him tomes right?) iirc, Patchy and Kaguya have the hardest leveling difficulty.
Well I heard there was a glitch where a character's mp/hp recovery rate isn't always consistent. Maybe that might be why. Other than that, it is fairly slow. When late game comes, people start moving really fast (Especially Aya, that freaking Aya) so their recovery rate goes up a lot faster, though it'll never be fast enough. Around end game, the fastest reserve healers will likely be Kaguya, Minoriko, Eirin (That desire to rest!) Aya, (gotta go fast!) amongst other characters.
Yeah, Tenshi is very very annoying. Wait until you fight her 3rd battle. It's even more annoying, oh my god. I seriously recommend you using Hina. Hina is so good during the 2nd and 3rd battles. Cause she debuffs all of her stats, saving you a lot of trouble and damage and pain and tears and frustration and dignity, then you can switch in like Yuugi or Alice to apply heavy (I prefer Yuugi, cause she can apply heavy and silence which are both needed for defeating her.) Iirc, Tenshi still isn't completely immune to poison during the 3rd fight, so try using Wriggle. (If you don't believe me, use http://www.en.touhouwiki.net) There will be an even more annoying boss after Tenshi when you get to the 12th floor. After that you run into some more bosses, from which around this time bosses should be a breeze, until you get to the final 3 floors. Then things start become unforgiving.
@ Kirin no Sora
Yes, 200 resists does reduce damage by half, but sometimes it's not enough. D: So you gotta boost more defenses and stuff with items.
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@ Kirin no Sora
Yes, 200 resists does reduce damage by half, but sometimes it's not enough. D: So you gotta boost more defenses and stuff with items.
I meant that one should boost resistances to 200 via Voile and maybe the various Boost skills(if available) to serve as a base line, so that the items that you use for resistance boosting and stuff is made more effective(by boosting, you do mean equips, right?).
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That's what I meant.
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BTW, it seems that characters charge mp really really slow when they are in the reserve. Does this seem to speed up later on in the game? I can practically kill a half-dead boss and see someone in my reserve has the same mp as when I put them in the back (before boss half-dead). Kinda makes me value those "get x* skill level times more sp when charging" skills alot!
Its all relative to the character's speed, so yes it does speed up later on. Their MP recovery stat is the amount of MP recovered whenever they receive a turn while in reserve, so with frequent switches and good tactics, your active characters would receive a lot more turns, so your scenario isn't that surprising. I can believe that they recover slowly, but I find it hard to believe that they didn't recover any MP at all for the second half of the boss fight (unless of course you were just exaggerating a little, in which case ignore this last sentence).
I pretty much always get the skills that aid with MP recovery. They fit too perfectly with my play style. And Desire to Rest is so good for Kaguya since you should be switching her in and out anyway.
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Nah, there have been times people have gotten no mp for ridiculous lengths of time. Last time was alice, she had no mp and i wanted to heavy tenshi again so reserve time for her (didnt want her to die from a random death hit which was a constant threat since i had like 2-3 diff haracters that passively buff my party like aya does to speed, nothing i could do about it pretty much aside from not having em out. But i never did get to heavy in the time kogasa got tenshi's mnd to -50% and i chipped away with rumia and someone all the while alice is chilling there like a slacker getting no mp.
Guess its just the bug cuz come to think of it, ran and reimu never seem to have issues getting mp back in reserve and i often spend theirs quite fast during bosses.
And i just say "nuke" for any spell that is meant as an attack. Mmo gaming habit i guess.
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http://puu.sh/7J03R.jpg
There is still no event there. I am pretty sure I haven't accessed the event in this area too.
Checking the wiki...
To recruit Flandre,
>Have both Mokou and Kaguya recruited to make her first event on 12F appear.
>Have more than 60 achievements to pass through the rock on the right side.
>Each Scarlet Devil Mansion character must have 300 BP (Marisa does not need any BP) and you must kill 30 FOEs before you can fight her.
I have recruited Mokou and Kaguya already, but there is still no event in this area. I already can pass through the rock since I did the achievements, and there is no sign of her too there. Is there something I am doing wrong? I also have killed 30 FOEs (since achievement got unlocked) and I am sure I did a BP run on the SDM cast (assuming that I get 2 BP per battle, but in which case if they are up front they actually get 3, which makes it so sure that they got 300 BP already). I can't progress since I really want her recruited.
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http://puu.sh/7J03R.jpg
There is still no event there. I am pretty sure I haven't accessed the event in this area too.
Checking the wiki...
To recruit Flandre,
>Have both Mokou and Kaguya recruited to make her first event on 12F appear.
>Have more than 60 achievements to pass through the rock on the right side.
>Each Scarlet Devil Mansion character must have 300 BP (Marisa does not need any BP) and you must kill 30 FOEs before you can fight her.
I have recruited Mokou and Kaguya already, but there is still no event in this area. I already can pass through the rock since I did the achievements, and there is no sign of her too there. Is there something I am doing wrong? I also have killed 30 FOEs (since achievement got unlocked) and I am sure I did a BP run on the SDM cast (assuming that I get 2 BP per battle, but in which case if they are up front they actually get 3, which makes it so sure that they got 300 BP already). I can't progress since I really want her recruited.
Not sure if I quoted correctly since I'm new here... There's something on the Wiki not mentioned. On the 11th floor you have to find an event with her in the North East section.
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Well Ran and Reimu do have really good MP recoveries (especially Ran). Like I said before, it was mentioned on the wiki that were was a recovery bug.
And for the Flandre recruitment, there is a tile you must touch before you can meet Flandre, There a multiple ones.
10th floor (http://i.imgur.com/CbpNKSr.png)
11th floor (http://i.imgur.com/HCcEHE8.png)
12th floor (http://i.imgur.com/m7bBW9W.png)
JP wiki has all the cool stuff like maps and stuff, but ya gotta know Japanese and stuff.
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http://puu.sh/7J03R.jpg
There is still no event there. I am pretty sure I haven't accessed the event in this area too.
Checking the wiki...
To recruit Flandre,
>Have both Mokou and Kaguya recruited to make her first event on 12F appear.
>Have more than 60 achievements to pass through the rock on the right side.
>Each Scarlet Devil Mansion character must have 300 BP (Marisa does not need any BP) and you must kill 30 FOEs before you can fight her.
I have recruited Mokou and Kaguya already, but there is still no event in this area. I already can pass through the rock since I did the achievements, and there is no sign of her too there. Is there something I am doing wrong? I also have killed 30 FOEs (since achievement got unlocked) and I am sure I did a BP run on the SDM cast (assuming that I get 2 BP per battle, but in which case if they are up front they actually get 3, which makes it so sure that they got 300 BP already). I can't progress since I really want her recruited.
You can actually check how much BP each character has you know. I doubt that was the issue though since it seems you're missing the event itself.
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Hey, since when were those parts of the menu translated? Was there another English patch I missed?
EDIT: Never mind, I answered my own question by looking back at the translation thread.
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I might be blind, but i seem to be unable to find those newest patch-files since they don't seem to be linked in the opening post.
Could you (or someone else) tell me on which page they are?
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They're on page 11, I believe. There is a further updated .txt on page 12, but it hasn't been inserted into the game yet (and unfortunately I don't know how to insert it, because if the tools used to do that are the ones I'm thinking of, then I have no idea how to work them properly).
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As someone guilty of being an awkward Hina-fanboy :derp:, a little question sparked my mind recently: To anyone who understands a bit of Japanese, what is the motivation of Hina for attacking your party on 5F? Pretty curious, as Hina isn't a character Doujin-developers can easily boss-ify in their games. There's few reasons for her to pick fights or for that matter, even leave her territory. So what exactly is she doing in the Great Tree?
Thanks in advance!
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As someone guilty of being an awkward Hina-fanboy :derp:, a little question sparked my mind recently: To anyone who understands a bit of Japanese, what is the motivation of Hina for attacking your party on 5F? Pretty curious, as Hina isn't a character Doujin-developers can easily boss-ify in their games. There's few reasons for her to pick fights or for that matter, even leave her territory. So what exactly is she doing in the Great Tree?
Thanks in advance!
So, from what I could tell, Hina is in the Great Tree because of her role and wants to gather misfortune and despair from humans that would come in the tree out of curiosity and get trapped. She blocks the way of the party because she feels the place higher up is too dangerous and doesn't want humans to go through (I don't know if it's because Hina wants to help people or because she wants more misfortune since people are going to keep living), and because our heroines need to investigate further, they decide to force their way through. (I just did a very quick read through it, so it might not be exact, but that's the jist of it)
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So, from what I could tell, Hina is in the Great Tree because of her role and wants to gather misfortune and despair from humans that would come in the tree out of curiosity and get trapped. She blocks the way of the party because she feels the place higher up is too dangerous and doesn't want humans to go through (I don't know if it's because Hina wants to help people or because she wants more misfortune since people are going to keep living), and because our heroines need to investigate further, they decide to force their way through. (I just did a very quick read through it, so it might not be exact, but that's the jist of it)
Neat, thanks! That sticks very close to lore, in that it is pretty much the same as what she did in Touhou 10 and what Reimu/Marisa did in reaction. With the difference that it was about Youkai Mountain and its new gods back then.
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So, from what I could tell, Hina is in the Great Tree because of her role and wants to gather misfortune and despair from humans that would come in the tree out of curiosity and get trapped. She blocks the way of the party because she feels the place higher up is too dangerous and doesn't want humans to go through (I don't know if it's because Hina wants to help people or because she wants more misfortune since people are going to keep living), and because our heroines need to investigate further, they decide to force their way through. (I just did a very quick read through it, so it might not be exact, but that's the jist of it)
I can agree. That's pretty much how it goes.
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At first I thought this is like that one floor from LoT1 but I actually cannot move but only turn around on the spot.
(http://i.imgur.com/q2Biue8.jpg)
I've defeated the strengthened bossrush and recruited both Mari and Renko so everything else is done.
Is there something I'm missing or do I have to reinstall?
Same thing happens with the untranslated version and patch is 1.203.
Okay, reinstalling fixed it. Whatever that was.
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I think if you want the SDM members to shine (as more than just "alright" party members) you need to be using several of them in your party of 12.
Team 9 works well separately due to having status/support purposes (apart from Mystia) but the sheer numbers from the team 9 bonus makes this kinda apply to them, too. I mean, dang, 24% stat bonus from just one other member out with them? Then you add buffs and it's even bigger of a difference.
I think I'm finally going to try to get back into this game. I stopped at 13f one day and never got around to starting the game again.
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I think if you want the SDM members to shine (as more than just "alright" party members) you need to be using several of them in your party of 12.
Team 9 works well separately due to having status/support purposes (apart from Mystia) but the sheer numbers from the team 9 bonus makes this kinda apply to them, too. I mean, dang, 24% stat bonus from just one other member out with them? Then you add buffs and it's even bigger of a difference.
I think I'm finally going to try to get back into this game. I stopped at 13f one day and never got around to starting the game again.
13th floor huh? Well get ready for a puzzle.
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I powered through it all, but man, bosses are getting really hard at this point. Need to reorganize my party; my library levels are still in the 20s, too...
I've also noticed this game seems like one where you definitely want to be switching in key characters for certain bosses. There's just no way around it as far as I can tell, at least in Hard Mode where you're not allowed to overlevel (which would be a pain to do anyway). Glowing Azure Giant just one-shots everyone and stunlocks Mokou to death, and I hear this happens again later in the fight; Tenshi or characters with Eyes That Percieve Reality are required it seems.
By the way, did Rinnosuke's item/gold passives change so he must be in the front 4 for them to work? I need to know if I should bother switching his points back when I'm not using him as a real character on boss fights, or not.
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I powered through it all, but man, bosses are getting really hard at this point. Need to reorganize my party; my library levels are still in the 20s, too...
I've also noticed this game seems like one where you definitely want to be switching in key characters for certain bosses. There's just no way around it as far as I can tell, at least in Hard Mode where you're not allowed to overlevel (which would be a pain to do anyway). Glowing Azure Giant just one-shots everyone and stunlocks Mokou to death, and I hear this happens again later in the fight; Tenshi or characters with Eyes That Percieve Reality are required it seems.
By the way, did Rinnosuke's item/gold passives change so he must be in the front 4 for them to work? I need to know if I should bother switching his points back when I'm not using him as a real character on boss fights, or not.
I don't think he needs to be in the frontline for it to work. It works when he's in the reserve.
Also, when I found Azure Giant I didn't need characters with "eyes that perceive reality", all I did was use Tenshi to knock off the buffs and it worked out just fine. I also had Aya in the front line to speed her up when the time came. I'm not completely sure how "eye that perceive reality" passive works besides making buffs not appearing like they were there, there might be more to it I guess? I also really recommend Komachi being a tank for this fight, or anyone with really high physical resistance (especially Komachi). She takes Rasetsu fist no prob.
EDIT
The main key to the Azure Giant fight is proper switching and team management. You gotta be on it.
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Keep in mind I said "or" :V You need one or the other or the entire team just falls over to attacks dealing three times their HP.
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I think if you want the SDM members to shine (as more than just "alright" party members) you need to be using several of them in your party of 12.
I accounted for this when I mentioned that making full use of character skills would get Patchy closer to how she was to LoT1, but Ghaleon was comparing her as a standalone character so I did just that. If anything, my synergy run showed me how powerful those kinds of skills are.
Having all SDM characters on the front line makes Patchy and Sakuya wreck face, and Remilia is no slouch either. Eientei characters makes Kaguya shine like no other, and Reisen becomes strong even without her self buff. Marisa gets a nice SPD buff from Alice and Alice gets a nice MAG buff from Marisa. The only synergy group that I haven't really been able to make full use of is Moriya Shrine. I've never really needed to make use of Suwako as a Nature nuke since I have Kaguya nor have I really made use of her Physical nuke since I have Remilia. And building her MAG is not useful since my team already has enough MAG based attackers.
Anyway, long story short, synergy skills are really strong. And all this talking finally made me stop my anime marathon and get back to finishing up post game content.
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I dumped cootie-suke like a hot potato because in my playthru/version..he DID need to be in the front 4 for his stuff to work. eff... that.. *dumped*.
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I accounted for this when I mentioned that making full use of character skills would get Patchy closer to how she was to LoT1, but Ghaleon was comparing her as a standalone character so I did just that. If anything, my synergy run showed me how powerful those kinds of skills are.
Having all SDM characters on the front line makes Patchy and Sakuya wreck face, and Remilia is no slouch either. Eientei characters makes Kaguya shine like no other, and Reisen becomes strong even without her self buff. Marisa gets a nice SPD buff from Alice and Alice gets a nice MAG buff from Marisa. The only synergy group that I haven't really been able to make full use of is Moriya Shrine. I've never really needed to make use of Suwako as a Nature nuke since I have Kaguya nor have I really made use of her Physical nuke since I have Remilia. And building her MAG is not useful since my team already has enough MAG based attackers.
Anyway, long story short, synergy skills are really strong. And all this talking finally made me stop my anime marathon and get back to finishing up post game content.
And I still think of the fact that the game makers gave Suwako and Kanako each one skill that goes completely against their playstyles and whatnot, and I still get annoyed by it.
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And I still think of the fact that the game makers gave Suwako and Kanako each one skill that goes completely against their playstyles and whatnot, and I still get annoyed by it.
At least you can make use of Suwako's skill by just switching out your tank when its safe for her to nuke something. Kanako's is literally useless since she should never be in the 4th slot anyway so she can make use of her bulkiness. I always thought this was a bug but I guess they actually meant for them to be this way.
Anyways, so I'm at the 14th Floor's Extra Area boss. What... the... hell.... am I supposed to do?
So for those of you who've played LoT1, I'm getting major Eiki boss fight vibes from this one. Except there's no tanking the instant kill move and there's no pattern to when it will use it. Komachi, with 363 Dark resistance (which means she only takes ~28% damage from Dark attacks), still takes 300k+ damage from the move. Even if I go all out with HP equips and Dark resistance, there's no way to reduce the damage low enough to a point where Komachi can tank it. So I'm just throwing characters into the first and second slot as they get wiped.
I realize that this whole fight is essentially a damage race but Kaguya being the only that can do reliable damage ain't cutting it. I've kept its SPD debuffed to 50% and the thing still moves ridiculously fast. I've been using Aya along with good switches and I just can't dish out enough damage before it wipes me out. Is there anything else I'm forgetting to do to make this fight easier on myself?
I've tried for the past hour and I'm going to take a break before I have a go at it again.
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Yuuka does a number on it if you're lucky with extra attack and Suika as well since both have their respective execute passives as it seems to get faster the lower its health drops (but I guess you've already figured that it's weak to nature) and it is very vulnerable to shock so full speed Orin should be able to keep it in check somewhat.
Or have Mokou with Resurrection and one of the two (?) with Guts in the first two slots and hope they proc it all the time and it is nice with its targeting.
If you have none of those you can always pick your fastest two characters, give them the Shock Main equip and pray.
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Yuuka does a number on it if you're lucky with extra attack and Suika as well since both have their respective execute passives as it seems to get faster the lower its health drops (but I guess you've already figured that it's weak to nature) and it is very vulnerable to shock so full speed Orin should be able to keep it in check somewhat.
Or have Mokou with Resurrection and one of the two (?) with Guts in the first two slots and hope they proc it all the time and it is nice with its targeting.
If you have none of those you can always pick your fastest two characters, give them the Shock Main equip and pray.
I gave Kaguya the item that sometimes makes the user deal double damage and prayed to the RNG. Also having Eiki and Renko
throw out Shock every now and then helped. Won this fight on pure luck... but oh well. I'd rather do that than cheese my way through with Diva.
Looking at the Bestiary, its also weak to Cold but its not like I had anyone that could have taken advantage of that.
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Kanako's is literally useless since she should never be in the 4th slot anyway so she can make use of her bulkiness.
Kanako -can- be decently durable, but if you don't encourage that in her build then she becomes frail enough that it doesn't really matter. Unless you really pushed her tankiness for some reason I don't see why you would ever put her in slot 2, and slot 3/4 aren't terribly different IMO now that LoT1-style row attacks are much rarer. (Suwako's is too weird to even bother with, poor Suwako, she doesn't seem much good this time around, unless Long-Arm-Long-Leg can do better than I thought with KeroKeroPower)
Also, Ghaleon, I'm still using Rinnosuke because high boosts are godly when maxed. It takes 30 points to max one, but it sends that stat higher than anyone else in your party probably has, so once you've got some levels he can be a stellar tank (and it just keeps getting better the more you have)
Just picked up Yuuka, she's vastly easier after the 1.20x patches. I remember before my party just got utterly destroyed by her even though they had basically the exact same library levels and equipment on. (She still wasn't easy, though, for sure) That or I'm stupid and never got my buffs up last time I guess. Man, Nitori's maintennance is too good, pump those resistances girl.
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So I decided to look in one of the LoT2 notepads and noticed that one of the descriptions said "Master Spark", and by the description, it implied that it was Yuuka's.
(http://i.imgur.com/lCom2Av.png)
Does Yuuka have a secret Master Spark skill that's unlockable? Or is this just leftover text for a skill that was never fully implemented?
EDIT
It's true, Rinnosuke gets godly stats with high boost. Though, you won't really be getting enough points to max out stats until basically late and post game. He is a decent tank during the early mid games though. Seriously though, high boost is godly. You should try high boost resistance, his resistances look so delicious, oh my god.
http://i.imgur.com/Wm7THFh.png
Right now I'm working on high boost in attack.
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So I decided to look in one of the LoT2 notepads and noticed that one of the descriptions said "Master Spark", and by the description, it implied that it was Yuuka's.
(http://i.imgur.com/lCom2Av.png)
Does Yuuka have a secret Master Spark skill that's unlockable? Or is this just leftover text for a skill that was never fully implemented?
It's a leftover, there is quite a lot of leftover stuff, though most of it disappeared with the new 1.2 patch.
There used to be a 22nd floor, a way to use a "Akyuu-sealed persuasion manual" to enlist a character in party (maybe hinting that they had Akyuu as a potential party member at some point), a way to upgrade your equipment, and more that were cut out in the end.
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I went and beat the 16th Floor's Extra Area boss after a couple of tries and I moved on to the Strengthen Final Boss. Not asking for advice since I haven't tried the fight enough times yet, just some comments though I'll probably need advice in the near future.
So basically, lets give the final boss every annoying move you've seen the post game bosses use.
Remove all buffs? Check.
Switch around your frontline randomly? Check.
Shredding Amnesiari's move that damages max HP? Check.
Along with some new moves like healing every ally to full HP, and removing all status ailments and debuffs from allies. Man this is going to take a lot of learning...
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So I've beaten the first boss rush (the recommended levels are actually too high, it's way easier then what it made it seem) and now I see the strengthened bosses. What do I try to do first? What's a good place to grind levels post game?
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Postgame grinding for me has just been the 20F pseudo-FOEs. Not even the enemies in the Extra sections will give you comparable experience.
As for which ones to do, do them in whatever order you want, really, just be careful. They're tough. :V
*is reminded he hasn't finished post-game, and wonders if he should be doing that over doing his Team 9 run*
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So I've beaten the first boss rush (the recommended levels are actually too high, it's way easier then what it made it seem) and now I see the strengthened bosses. What do I try to do first? What's a good place to grind levels post game?
The 20F area with the final boss in it is pretty much the only place you should be grinding. That said, you probably don't need to unless you're somehow under leveled for what you should do next. Exploring the extra areas should give you all the levels you need. You should be fighting every encounter you get in Labyrinth of Touhou anyway.
1. Go and beat the Strengthened Bosses. They'll be in the same locations as when you fought their original forms.
2. After that, you alternate between exploring the extra areas starting from 12F and challenging the 3 bosses needed to recruit Renko, which then allows you to recruit Maribel
.
3. From there you'll be basically grinding to beat the extra area bosses, which will open on the Strengthened Final Boss.
After you beat all the Strengthened Bosses, the Strengthened Boss rush becomes available but you probably shouldn't attempt it until you're basically ready for the Strengthen Final Boss.
I just realized that I probably should start writing some boss fight notes for the 14th floor and 16th floor extra area bosses. I noticed that they weren't on the wiki when I was having trouble with them.
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I am having a bit of problem of late. This occurs infrequently but what happens is that the screen of the entire game. However the game is still taking place since I still hear the cursor sound when I his select, cancel or the arrow key. I am wondering if anyone else ran into this problem before.
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I am having a bit of problem of late. This occurs infrequently but what happens is that the screen of the entire game. However the game is still taking place since I still hear the cursor sound when I his select, cancel or the arrow key. I am wondering if anyone else ran into this problem before.
The screen of the entire game... Disco dances? Turns negative? Becomes ecchi 18+ during work hours?
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My apologies, it seems that part of my text got deleted for some reason. Here is what I mean to say.
I am having a bit of problem of late. This occurs infrequently but what happens is that the screen of the entire game freezes. However the game did not freeze and is still taking place since I still hear the cursor sound when I his select, cancel or the arrow key. I am wondering if anyone else ran into this problem before.
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If you were playing any other game i would suggest trying alt-enter to switch to full screen and back again but thats disabled in dis game =(
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I went and beat the 16th Floor's Extra Area boss after a couple of tries and I moved on to the Strengthen Final Boss. Not asking for advice since I haven't tried the fight enough times yet, just some comments though I'll probably need advice in the near future.
So basically, lets give the final boss every annoying move you've seen the post game bosses use.
Remove all buffs? Check.
Switch around your frontline randomly? Check.
Shredding Amnesiari's move that damages max HP? Check.
Along with some new moves like healing every ally to full HP, and removing all status ailments and debuffs from allies. Man this is going to take a lot of learning...
I remember the final strengthen boss being a doom, but I don't remember the strategy since I'm now playing DoD Damn Xia
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Hey guys! I just had a quick question.. The Special Disk cheat table that I downloaded doesn't seem to work for me. I booted everything up and changed the addresses to "00010000" and what not, but the value is still shown as "??" and I can't activate anything or change the value. Does anybody know the solution for this? Also, if this has been answered before, I'm sorry for not looking hard enough.
Thanks in advance :)
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Hey guys! I just had a quick question.. The Special Disk cheat table that I downloaded doesn't seem to work for me. I booted everything up and changed the addresses to "00010000" and what not, but the value is still shown as "??" and I can't activate anything or change the value. Does anybody know the solution for this? Also, if this has been answered before, I'm sorry for not looking hard enough.
Thanks in advance :)
You dont change them TO 0010000, you ADD that to what their address is.
That said it might not work still, iirc special disk borked up the cheat tables. You have to make your own. Use the tutorial, touhou labyrinth doesnt seem to use pointers though so you can stop at that point.
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You dont change them TO 0010000, you ADD that to what their address is.
That said it might not work still, iirc special disk borked up the cheat tables. You have to make your own. Use the tutorial, touhou labyrinth doesnt seem to use pointers though so you can stop at that point.
The tutorial helped quite a bit. I've got everything figured out except item addresses. How would I go about getting to those?
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Equipping an item will reduce the count by 1, de-equipping it will then raise it by 1.
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Each item is 00000040 "away" from its neighbors too. So lets say you want to adjust the 8th item in page 5 but dont have any, but have the 5th item in page 5, you can find the address for that via how qaz mentioned, and then get the 8th item by adding 000000c0 to the address.
I think i was 00000040 anyway, might be off om that.
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I dumped cootie-suke like a hot potato because in my playthru/version..he DID need to be in the front 4 for his stuff to work. eff... that.. *dumped*.
By stuff you mean....?
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The gold/item drop boosts.
They changed them at some point.
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Ouch....
Well that means I gotta do some route changing.
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They doubled the strength of them at the same time, though.
Of course, after he reaches a decent level, it's too tempting to use everything else he has instead. Efficient Formation Change, atk/mag debuffs each time he takes a turn, and all of his godly high boosts are all just such amazing skills- and he also really desires some kind of actual skill to use on turns he doesn't switch as his naturals are wimpsauce without leveling.
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About cookies i know also there was a loot at 100% on v1.200, down to 0% at v1.201 (seems to be a good item, but i don't know which one)
I started new game +, i beat the boss rush esilly, but the next step... I am still killed by F11 minions (party lv 130-140) they are lv 108/110, 2 sand storm down 3 of 4... (and i am on v1.203 btw)
And i will not say about F1 boss ~~ (i should maybe switch tanks from Tenshi to Kami-- Byakuren ~ )
But it's nice ~~ i went from F1 to F20 with a front line : tank / mage / mage / solo target , now seems i should boost HP/DEF for several characters to be safe and don't play like a full attack mode.
Remain me LoT 1 now, far better to try and build a strategy than going full attack and win ~
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The gold/item drop boosts.
They changed them at some point.
They doubled the strength of them at the same time, though.
Hold the phone, Serela. Are you saying that he can boost your chances of getting items by 80% now? Because his skill let him reach 40% at max level before hand...
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Huh? Oh, I thought it was 20% and 10% before... I guess I'm just bad at remembering.
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Hum, i checked my inventory and i maybe missed some of them :O
Or maybe we can't have all of them yet ? I still hope for a special disk as LoT 1 (10 more floors and evolutive boss like **WINNER** ?)
Finally i found a easy way to take half strengthen bosses in this game... Overpower Gambler Flandre + Maximum speed/dodge Aya... Spam & Win ~
I know now why dodge don't work in LoT1 (but just why simply don't remove it ?! )
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Sorry if this gets asked a lot, but how is the english translation coming along?
It's still being worked on, right?
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Sorry if this gets asked a lot, but how is the english translation coming along?
It's still being worked on, right?
Also, for those worried about it, the translation project is not dead, I'm still working on it, just at a slower pace (translation for school > translation for this project)
its been about two months since that was posted, though that doesn't mean much if he's in a semester based system. I'd offer to help myself, but I'm also in a tough situation with school.
[attach=1]
"Another university's take on their 'CPE 357' " (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ7HP7fpnW8)
The year listed for the "lowdown" link is off since the class is using the same structure it did last year. The professor just didn't bother changing it.
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"Another university's take on their 'CPE 357' " (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ7HP7fpnW8)
The year listed for the "lowdown" link is off since the class is using the same structure it did last year. The professor just didn't bother changing it.
Thanks for the laugh. So many pointers xD Anyway, assuming that he is in a semester-type system, we should probably wait until summer. Also, there should be more updates about the game itself soon(Once they stop working on that other game, I guess).
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I was skimming through the character list and their skills and such, trying to think up team ideas, variations, stuff to freshen things up a bit. I was looking over Rumia, having a small laugh over how her use was much like in Laby1, then I noticed one of her passives. "Piercing Attack 2 5 Against enemies with extremely high defenses, some defense-ignoring damage will still go through." on this page here. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Characters/Characters_2)
Now, does anyone have a solid idea on the specifics of what that means? Does Rumia have to 0 out normally for it to kick in? Is it always in effect and the results are simply more pronounced against mega defensive enemies? Does the effect grow stronger the higher the enemy defense are compared to her offense? Does it make her attacks have better defense piercing? Or does it take a % of what damage was lost due to enemy defenses and deal that to the enemy?
There are numerous ways to read the description of the skill, that I am left wondering how exactly it works. It could be awesome, it could be trash, it could be merely okay, and that all depends on how the skill actually works x.x
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I've always assumed that it ignores a percentage of the opponent's defensive stats, most obviously MND in Rumia's case.
Speaking of Rumia, I've finished my Team 9 run and have been doing the postgame with them. I've already gotten the Boss Rush and two of the Strengthen Bosses down, and I've been exploring the extra areas. While I've been doing that, I've realized something: The Page 6 sub equipment isn't on the wiki. Also, I swore that the postgame stuff gameplay wise had been translated. I mean I saw the translated lines for it in the translation thread, but they haven't been put into the game yet it seems. Is that possible to do yet, or...?
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The Japanese wiki says the skill increases minimum damage to 20*(SLv)% attack power.
As in, if Rumia can deal 500 damage to a MND-less enemy, she can still deal 200 damage to a enemy with 500000 MND.
Is this game reasonably beatable by using only the mandatory characters?
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Ha, Team 9 managed to do what my Hard Mode party could not: Beat Shredding Amnesieri. My strategy was more or less buffing up Gambler Rumia massively with Pharmacologist Mystia and an Enhancer Cirno, and then just spamming Moonlight Ray until it died. With max buffs, she could deal like half a million damage per Moonlight Ray. It was quite a sight to see.
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Ha, Team 9 managed to do what my Hard Mode party could not: Beat Shredding Amnesieri. My strategy was more or less buffing up Gambler Rumia massively with Pharmacologist Mystia and an Enhancer Cirno, and then just spamming Moonlight Ray until it died. With max buffs, she could deal like half a million damage per Moonlight Ray. It was quite a sight to see.
Also beat Shredding yesterday and Rumia helped a lot. It was in a bit of a different way, though: I built her most of the way HP (she reached an impressive 17k with a First Aid Kit) with a few inklings of speed. I gave her Strategist-subclass with 10 ranks in Ironclad Strategy. That together with her ability to reduce incoming dark-damage noticeably kept everyone healthy and gave me the time I needed to set up my offense.
Mine might not have had the Team 9 bonus, but I've got to say, Rumia, weak-looking on paper, but man does she always surprise in how useful she can be.
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So, I have reached the final boss! Unfortunately it's been squashing my team - I can't even seem to do any good damage other than Dark Side of the Moon's piercing and Super Scope 3D's sheer overkill damage. Basically, I dunno if I need to invest more skill points, grind more, or just change up my team/subclasses, so advice would be appreciated!
For reference, the team I've tried using is Reimu, Monk Youmu, Healer Komachi, Kasen, Aya, Hina, Rumia, Pharmacologist Minoriko, Gambler Nitori, Sorcerer Patchouli, Flandre, and Tenshi
, and average level is 108. I can provide more specifics if wanted.
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It has a good chance to be inflicted with Terror, Silence and Heavy which cuts its defenses quite handily it is also only immune to
Mystic and Spirit
.
A good combination of damage dealers would be Kogasa & Parsee who can inflict both Terror and Silence and abuse its elemental properties (And also put a heavy Mind debuff on it reliably) if you have them/are willing to grind them up.
Otherwise you could bring Komachi's Avici to max level so that you can use that for debuffing and Kasen should be good in that regard as well.
Basically the strategy is to debuff it so that you can damage it. And get some Spirit resistance.
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So, I have reached the final boss! Unfortunately it's been squashing my team - I can't even seem to do any good damage other than Dark Side of the Moon's piercing and Super Scope 3D's sheer overkill damage. Basically, I dunno if I need to invest more skill points, grind more, or just change up my team/subclasses, so advice would be appreciated!
For reference, the team I've tried using is Reimu, Monk Youmu, Healer Komachi, Kasen, Aya, Hina, Rumia, Pharmacologist Minoriko, Gambler Nitori, Sorcerer Patchouli, Flandre, and Tenshi
, and average level is 108. I can provide more specifics if wanted.
Could look into bringing in Reisen and Kaguya
for this fight. The former's debuffing and elemental abuse helps immensely, while the latter's MND piercing ignoring
is a god send. Also, the latter could pull double duty in debuffing as well if she's not able to do damage.
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Hello, guys. I just had a thought concerning one of Aya's spellcards. Specifically, the "give a character a instant turn" spell. I recalled how upgrading it would only allow it to increase the timebar above 10000, and realized how that could play out as a good thing if it was programmed a certain way.
What if it were programmed so that the equation for the timebar were written as: 10000 + ((SLv-1)*2500)
If it were programmed that way, then there would be a damn good reason to level it up, because...
A) It would decrease the delay of normally high delay spells(presuming that use of spells actually subtract a set number from the timebar, rather than set the timebar to a certain number).
B) At maximum level, it would give two turns to the recipient instead of one.
I would presume that such a upgrade would be kinda broken, so if it is, maybe it could be remedied by the following:
MP Cost = SLv + 3
That would make the spell cost 4 MP at the start, and end up costing 8 MP, when fully powered up. Would that do, or would it still be broken, presuming that it was considered broken in the first place?
If I actually talked about this spell before and how it could be made better or something like that, then I apologize for bringing it up again.
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Still doing postgame with Team 9. Almost done exploring the extra areas that I can without finishing off the rest of the Strengthen and Deformed Bosses (I've got only four of the Strengthen bosses left and the last Deformed boss left). I got to Doughy Demon "C," and holy crap that boss music. Also holy crap that boss. I'm pretty sure I can do it, though. I mean I'm like... around in the 150s in terms of levels, and it's Team 9 with max boosts so I just need to throw Diva around and watch the boss get poisoned to death while it's unable to really do anything about it.
EDIT: Yeah, that was a relatively simple, if tedious fight. Well, the strategy works, so I can't complain. :V
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Picking this up again after putting it down for quite a long time and I am wondering a few things. What achievements are bugged or not working as of the current update?
I am normally a huge miser and don't actually spend money to pump stats- I tended not to do that in the first game as well. But I am pretty sure I have spent more than 2000 by now and that hasn't unlocked. The 255 one triggered but the 2000 one hasn't even when I test it by blowing 4000 on somebody in one sitting. I haven't tried it without the 1.203 partial patch and still no results.
Similarly were 12 stones of awakening ever actually put in? Last time I checked, which was a long time ago, it was quite impossible to get that cheevo and the great stone that comes with it.
Normally I wouldn't care about achievements but the swag that comes from them has proven to be useful, so I actually care now.
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There are twelve Stones of Awakening, but the last couple are in the postgame only extra areas. The achievement is possible to get.
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Good to know that was implemented.
The point spending ones are bugging me now because there is no way the second one is triggering at 2000 like the description says, more 20,000 or something- I have to pump all my money into it (only 29K as of just getting to floor 11) to trigger it.
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Good to know that was implemented.
The point spending ones are bugging me now because there is no way the second one is triggering at 2000 like the description says, more 20,000 or something- I have to pump all my money into it (only 29K as of just getting to floor 11) to trigger it.
It's not 2000 money spent on skill points, it's 2000 skill points bought. No matter how much you're spending on any given skill point, it only adds 1 to the count.
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Ooooooh. Okay that explains it. I was just misunderstanding the description. Good to know. Thank you
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Well, I've done everything in the postgame with Team 9 except beat the Strengthen Boss Rush, beat the Strengthen Ame-no-Murakumo, and getting that sub equipment that needs "Light Needles" to make.
Does anyone know how to get Light Needles? I have the Dragon's Mane I need for it, but I've never encountered Light Needles before.
EDIT: Okay, Strengthen Boss Rush beaten and still no Light Needles. I am sad but happy at the same time. Yay ambivalence! :V
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Quick question... Has anyone made a translation of the LoT2 Bestiary for the Touhou Wiki yet?
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Does anyone know how to get Light Needles? I have the Dragon's Mane I need for it, but I've never encountered Light Needles before.
I had to look for those, too. Golems from 20F West or East (but not Depths) have 'em if I recall correctly. If not them, it was another monster from the same region. Bestiary should tell you for sure, now that that piece of info narrows it down for you.
Droprate isn't terrific, but you should get one after maybe 10-15 minutes.
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I had to look for those, too. Golems from 20F West or East (but not Depths) have 'em if I recall correctly. If not them, it was another monster from the same region. Bestiary should tell you for sure, now that that piece of info narrows it down for you.
Droprate isn't terrific, but you should get one after maybe 10-15 minutes.
I just checked the bestiary and yeah, it's the Guardians of Heaven that drop them. Right, I'll have to take the time to grab those really quickly so I can make the next-to-last sub equip sans the one dropped by the Strengthen Ame-no-Murakumo.
Speaking of which, damn, even with Team 9 all around level 200 or so, he's a pain in the ass after the first phase of the fight. So that means just more grinding... which I don't mind, seeing as today in order to deal with the rest of the bosses, I had to grind up like thirty or forty levels from around level 150-160. :V
EDIT: And he's down. Well that was actually easier than I thought after having to do the grinding and such. Nevertheless, it's done, My Team 9 run is officially over. After doing that, I had a bunch of ideas for doing a variety of things for my next challenge run, such as not only another synergy run, but just an overall "themed" run, such as the initial party only, or the four "elite" characters story-wise (Yukari, Yuyuko, Byakuren, and Eiki only), but in the end I decided for my next run, I'm doing Yakumo Family... while also doing Sealing Club at the same time. It's going to be interesting either way. ^^;
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Hello, guys. I just had a thought concerning one of Aya's spellcards. Specifically, the "give a character a instant turn" spell. I recalled how upgrading it would only allow it to increase the timebar above 10000, and realized how that could play out as a good thing if it was programmed a certain way.
What if it were programmed so that the equation for the timebar were written as: 10000 + ((SLv-1)*2500)
If it were programmed that way, then there would be a damn good reason to level it up, because...
A) It would decrease the delay of normally high delay spells(presuming that use of spells actually subtract a set number from the timebar, rather than set the timebar to a certain number).
B) At maximum level, it would give two turns to the recipient instead of one.
I would presume that such a upgrade would be kinda broken, so if it is, maybe it could be remedied by the following:
MP Cost = SLv + 3
That would make the spell cost 4 MP at the start, and end up costing 8 MP, when fully powered up. Would that do, or would it still be broken, presuming that it was considered broken in the first place?
If I actually talked about this spell before and how it could be made better or something like that, then I apologize for bringing it up again.
Use of spells sets the timebar at a specific number. They don't subtract from the timebar.
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Use of spells sets the timebar at a specific number. They don't subtract from the timebar.
Oh, really? That's a pity.
Although, if that's the case, then how does having a timebar of 20000 allow for having two turns?
Also, on an unrelated note, I filled in the recruitment requirements for Maribel
on the Touhou Wiki, since the postgame part of the Dungeon section already has the info present. I figured that it should be filled in for completeness's sake.
Back onto my thoughts on spellcards, I'm fairly certain that I've talked about this before, but...
I personally think that Eirin's Hourai Elixir should of had an additional, beneficial secondary effect that appears once you start leveling up the spell(Maribel has a similar thing happen in one of her spellcards). What benefit, you might ask? Well, I was thinking that since Eirin's healing spell cost 4 MP, why not have it restore some MP to the recipent? 1 MP restore for every level above 1, for a maximum of 4 MP recovered(meaning that if Eirin were to use the spell on herself, then it would effectively be free healing, which works because of the fact that it doesn't heal in the same way as all other healing spells). Would giving it that effect make it OP?
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Aya's turn-give spellcard is already OP, it doesn't need to be even stronger.
Eirin's Hourai Elixir -already- has a secondary effect; it cures all status effects and debuffs in addition to healing 50% of hp. Granted, Sanae can already do this and in most cases has better healing (plus an awesome buff with a different skill), but Eirin's got the Healing Limit Breaker and other various tools so I think that's fine. Healer Eirin can overheal for obscene amounts and use Elixir when you need the status/debuff curing effects. She's already got special things that only she can do with healing and seems pretty fine to me.
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OOOOOOOOH
(http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/image/index/diary/14_04_23.jpg)
They are making a Special Disk for LoT2. It seems this was planned for this past winter Comi, but they didn't have enough time to finish everything they wanted, so hopefully we'll have it for this Reitaisai, otherwise it will probably be for the Summer Comiket
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*checks the developer's page*
...OH HEY SO A PLUS DISK WILL BE HAPPENING YAY.
EDIT: Based off of the little bit I could read thanks to Google Translate, it says something about an infinite floor dungeon or something? Could someone translate the notes for what they're saying about the append disk?
http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/
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Oh, SHOU I'll kill everyone in one hit with curvy lasers!!! I'm wishing for Nue, Mima, Yamame, Letty, Prismriver Sisters, Kokoro, Seiga, Futo, Miko, Meddy, Hatate and Koishi!!
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I was actually about to post about the special disk, but I guess it's already been mentioned.
yes Shou, LET IT BE, LET IT BE. I'd also want Koishi too.
One thing I wanted to mention is that in a way, I'm glad the strengthen bosses don't involve the touhou characters. Cause that would mean you'd have to fight strengthened Tenshi... *shivers* OH THE HORROR.
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Maybe CharaGraph will also be used in the Plus Disk. By the way someone should edit the wiki...
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Seems like there are some info on Shou on the website, anyone can roughly translate? :V
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...a Plus Disk for this game is coming?
Mwahahahhahahahahhahhahaha!!!
...sorry, couldn't help that. But that could mean that some new characters could show up for this...
Seems like there are some info on Shou on the website, anyone can roughly translate? :V
Like maybe Shou, for example. I was a bit bewildered by the fact that Nazrin was there with Byakuren, but no one else from the Myouren Temple. I guess we now know why they didn't show up, because they were going to be added in the Plus Disk.
Personally, I would ask for the rest of the cast from UFO, Mamizou(Tanuki's too damn popular to not show up), Shizuha Aki(sister of Minoriko), Akyuu(remember that she was cut from the normal game, so it may be possible for her to be recruited via the Plus Disk), and Koishi.
Adding Miko and the others from TD would be possible, but I wouldn't feel bad if they didn't show up.
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The fact that this developer was preparing a Plus Disk for Labyrinth of Touhou 2 was quite well known since 2013 December.
Abbreviated version of the newest entry, April 23rd.
First part of the article describes 'An example of what happens when a person who doesn't know when to stop makes a game.'
Something like
1. Let's make a Plus Disk. Wanted to make 12 extra floors, but winter is coming soon, so let's just make 10 extra floors.
2. Let's add powerful skills to buff up every character.
3. Let's also add an endless dungeon for people who completely beat the game.
4. It is already winter, so let's reduce it to 8 extra floors and remove the new skills.
5. Couldn't make it in time anyway, so let's make 12 extra floors again.
6. Let's add new floors as the player beats more bosses and goes further into the endless dungeon.
7. Will need more floors than expected.
Toramaru Shou
High DEF, MND, HP and SPD. Defensive capabilities somewhat similar to Remilia.
Has rather low offensive capabilities, but with her skill 'Vaiśravaṇa/Bishamonten's Rage', she gets a 'Rage Counter', which increases every time she is hit and increases her attack.
Also, when she uses 'Aura of Justice', which slightly increases all stats of the front members, she will use up her Rage Counter for increased stat increase.
She also has a passive skill that increases EXP, drop rate, and money, and she also has a all-target attack that does what Nazrin's spells do put altogether.
The developer also plans to make boss battles with all 48 characters and the new characters, since many people wished for it when the Plus Disk for Labyrinth of Touhou 1 came out.
Too awesome. Although all characters are too awesome in their own ways. And it looks like they will be even more awesome when the Plus Disk comes.
Some people will have to wait much more than they originally expected, but it looks like the Plus Disk will be very very grand-scale.
Here is where I wish the translators good luck.
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The fact that this developer was preparing a Plus Disk for Labyrinth of Touhou 2 was quite well known since 2013 December.
Abbreviated version of the newest entry, April 23rd.
First part of the article describes 'An example of what happens when a person who doesn't know when to stop makes a game.'
Something like
1. Let's make a Plus Disk. Wanted to make 12 extra floors, but winter is coming soon, so let's just make 10 extra floors.
2. Let's add powerful skills to buff up every character.
3. Let's also add an endless dungeon for people who completely beat the game.
4. It is already winter, so let's reduce it to 8 extra floors and remove the new skills.
5. Couldn't make it in time anyway, so let's make 12 extra floors again.
6. Let's add new floors as the player beats more bosses and goes further into the endless dungeon.
7. Will need more floors than expected.
Toramaru Shou
High DEF, MND, HP and SPD. Defensive capabilities somewhat similar to Remilia.
Has rather low offensive capabilities, but with her skill 'Vaiśravaṇa/Bishamonten's Rage', she gets a 'Rage Counter', which increases every time she is hit and increases her attack.
Also, when she uses 'Aura of Justice', which slightly increases all stats of the front members, she will use up her Rage Counter for increased stat increase.
She also has a passive skill that increases EXP, drop rate, and money, and she also has a all-target attack that does what Nazrin's spells do put altogether.
The developer also plans to make boss battles with all 48 characters and the new characters, since many people wished for it when the Plus Disk for Labyrinth of Touhou 1 came out.
Too awesome. Although all characters are too awesome in their own ways. And it looks like they will be even more awesome when the Plus Disk comes.
Some people will have to wait much more than they originally expected, but it looks like the Plus Disk will be very very grand-scale.
Here is where I wish the translators good luck.
Interesting, thanks for translating.
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Aww yeah, an expansion! I'm especially happy about the new skills that will be added, if I understood that article right. My party is ~160 in levels and already characters like Rumia have fully developed their skill-trees. There's just something missing if you can take almost every single one with you :(.
Oh, SHOU I'll kill everyone in one hit with curvy lasers!!! I'm wishing for Nue, Mima, Yamame, Letty, Prismriver Sisters, Kokoro, Seiga, Futo, Miko, Meddy, Hatate and Koishi!!
She may not have many fans, but given how few high-damage attackers with good cold-spells seem to exist, I think Letty would fit into the game really nicely. I guess the best one when it comes to that right now is Kanako?
One thing I wanted to mention is that in a way, I'm glad the strengthen bosses don't involve the touhou characters. Cause that would mean you'd have to fight strengthened Tenshi... *shivers* OH THE HORROR.
Sounds like you haven't fought all of them yet, because there's some that are everything Tenshi, except far worse :V. The ones I mean are the Strengthen Magatama and Mirror, beat them this week and relied exclusively on defense-bypassing characters. I decided so after a fully buffed Nitori achieved a measly 76k-hit on a massively-debuffed Mirror with her 3D Scope. No thanks to that!
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unlimited floor mode?! Suddenly immortality will be my life's goal, cuz no way heaven is better =P
I hope +disc comes with a database too.
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It does sound like something that would be a bit difficult to balance. Wriggles for LoT plus disk contents for example. Though alternatively, it is just a fun mode and balance is just out of the window.
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unlimited floor mode?! Suddenly immortality will be my life's goal, cuz no way heaven is better =P
I guess that you'll be seeking some Hourai Elixir then, won't you Ghaleon? :D
She may not have many fans, but given how few high-damage attackers with good cold-spells seem to exist, I think Letty would fit into the game really nicely.
Sounds like a plan, albeit with one question for me to ask: how does one keep the Yuki-Onna from becoming a Cirno clone? Any thoughts on how she can be unique without overshadowing the ice fairy?
Also, as a aside from the "things that I wish that they could add to the game, but I seriously doubt that it'll ever happen" department, would I be considered a bad person to want to wish for more types of status ailments? I mention the following as my thoughts on the matter:
Blind: Reduces accuracy and evasion severely, thus making it harder to hit others and easier to be hit.
Confusion: When performing any action other than a Form Change, a 50% chance of misfire may occur, causing damage to the user instead. Damage is calculated based on the stats linked to the spell used. If spell has no such thing, it defaults to the stats used for the Attack command. On enemies, it causes them to take damage with each action that they take.
Yeah, I know that it sounds jerkish, but I feel that a lot of characters can benefit from having these ailments available as options for their spells and whatnot...
I also have a gameplay question about Soul Eater
: I recall that someone on this forum said that Shock shuts it down and makes it easy. Is this true?
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Sounds like a plan, albeit with one question for me to ask: how does one keep the Yuki-Onna from becoming a Cirno clone? Any thoughts on how she can be unique without overshadowing the ice fairy?
Stat having decent hp, good def, and even better mind with mags being primary. Speed being a little slow. Average leveling rate
Spell card that deals bonus damage according to the strength of the speed debuff on the target.
Spell card that deals bonus damage according to the strength of the enemy's def and mnd. Has a chance to dispel said buffs.
Spell card that deals low damage but can turn speed buffs into debuff.
Passive that debuff enemies speed per turn.
If an enemy she attacks has a def or mind buff, have her damage calculate as if they do not have it.
If she has a speed debuff, calculate it as if it is a buff.
Summary: This essentially makes her an ice mage that specialize in attacking enemies that buff themselves. While she would be good at hitting enemies that are slowed, she herself only has her passive to provide that (outside of enemies buffing their speed). Her slow speed makes it harder to reliably apply slows without extra help as well as make it so that she won't be able to counter both def/mind and slow at the same time. In a sense, she is almost an anti-thesis of Cirno.
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Finally, more info on the expansion. This is very interesting. I can't wait to see what goods the new characters will have(And the characters themselves ._.). But an infinite floor dungeon, that sounds hard to make.
For now, I should decide whether or not I'll transfer my save...
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A lot of endless dungeon type has to do with random generator a formula scaling abilities, at least from the games that I have played with endless levels.
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All the updates sound really cool. So from it sounds like, Shou is a sort of mage tank?
Besides the obvious Koishi, I'd also wanna see Futo, Miko, Seiga and Tojiko. I'd imagine Miko being a fast physical attacker using mostly spirit/mystic/physical attacks, Futo also being a mixed attacks using a mixed bundle of attacks, Tojiko being a fast wind/spirit mage and Seiga a despicable (in a good way) dark/spirit mage.
I wonder what Koishi would be... some sort of unorthodox mage? Not sure.
Add Strawberry Scientist pls
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A lot of endless dungeon type has to do with random generator a formula scaling abilities, at least from the games that I have played with endless levels.
In this game, enemies actually have a Level, so that's probably how most of it would be handled in terms of reaching true endlessness; just increasing the level of the things you encounter.
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All the updates sound really cool. So from it sounds like, Shou is a sort of mage tank?
Besides the obvious Koishi, I'd also wanna see Futo, Miko, Seiga and Tojiko. I'd imagine Miko being a fast physical attacker using mostly spirit/mystic/physical attacks, Futo also being a mixed attacks using a mixed bundle of attacks, Tojiko being a fast wind/spirit mage and Seiga a despicable (in a good way) dark/spirit mage.
I wonder what Koishi would be... some sort of unorthodox mage? Not sure.
Add Strawberry Scientist pls
Koishi and Miko are a MUST, Futo would be an interesting option, while Seiga is great! And Tojiko may have few spells...
Mima-sama, Shinki-sama are you there?
Confusion: When performing any action other than a Form Change, a 50% chance of misfire may occur, causing damage to the user instead. Damage is calculated based on the stats linked to the spell used. If spell has no such thing, it defaults to the stats used for the Attack command. On enemies, it causes them to take damage with each action that they take.
I'm thinking of Mamizou and Nue would be good options for this.
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Not saying she will be this, but if I were to design a game like this and add koishi...I'd make her a status-ailment inflicting character who is special because she ignores ailment resistances cuz of her manipulate subconscious thing. It'd be not op because her actual ailments wouldn't have 100% success rate or anything. Or maybe they did but she only ignores half their resistance, etc, and by half I don't mean 100% resistance = 0% x 2 = 0%.. but 100% turns to 50%...Naturally insta death or whatever would be excluded.
That said I hope the +disc kinda fixes some characters being pretty much straight up inferior to others directly... I'm not talking about tier inferior. I'm talking about stuff like...like...brain fart...girl with a golem bandage arm thing... basically being remilia only better in virtually every way minus SDM passives. I can't remember all of them but there were a couple others IIRC.
btw people said hatate... is she confirmed for being added or is that just speculation? I ALWAYS WANTED hatate in some fan games! She's in touhou pocket wars 2nd but I'm not really interested in that game, plus she sucks in it anyway.
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girl with a golem bandage arm thing
Kasen Ibaraki and her immaterial arm.
I remember someone else mentioned that Parsee was better than Patchy (and took the reign for being the best magic tank to boot) aside from being attack oriented and not having SDM passive. Someone else mentioned Minoriko tapering off later on though I haven't really gone that far to experience it myself.
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Not saying she will be this, but if I were to design a game like this and add koishi...I'd make her a status-ailment inflicting character who is special because she ignores ailment resistances cuz of her manipulate subconscious thing. It'd be not op because her actual ailments wouldn't have 100% success rate or anything. Or maybe they did but she only ignores half their resistance, etc, and by half I don't mean 100% resistance = 0% x 2 = 0%.. but 100% turns to 50%...Naturally insta death or whatever would be excluded.
That said I hope the +disc kinda fixes some characters being pretty much straight up inferior to others directly... I'm not talking about tier inferior. I'm talking about stuff like...like...brain fart...girl with a golem bandage arm thing... basically being remilia only better in virtually every way minus SDM passives. I can't remember all of them but there were a couple others IIRC.
btw people said hatate... is she confirmed for being added or is that just speculation? I ALWAYS WANTED hatate in some fan games! She's in touhou pocket wars 2nd but I'm not really interested in that game, plus she sucks in it anyway.
I would agree with you on Kasen. I barely had any reason to use Remi except against a certain boss where she excel in destroying, but Kasen buffs herself without hurting herself, array of moves instead of just one physical move, bulky, and stuff. I think Remi should get a buff.
Hatate would be great, Gotta have that classy tengu.
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It was me. I love Hatate since I started playing photography games, and I definitely want her on a game like this!
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oh so you are just like me and want to see her in moar fangames.
photography. what a shallow reason. *I* am a true fan and want her cuz of her twintails! (this is a joke, do not hate me...for this at least).
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I thoroughly support the superior Tengu. (*shot)
I'd imagine Hatate would be quick, not as fast as Aya obv, and would specialize in buff control. Ya know, like copying buffs or debuffs, or doing it in a fashion that's similar to taking photos. Like say, insert person has buffs, you take a picture of it, now those buff conditions are saved or somethin like that. Maybe have natural strategist abilities. Having some wind and mystic attacks. Other Tengu things, being classy.
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She's one of the characters I really want, others are Nue and Kokoro.
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I can already imagine Kokoro having a small set of moves and one that switches their aspect ala switching mask with a short cooldown. Sounds likes a potentially cool gimmick character.
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And now I must interject about a few things:
Letty: I would love to see her show up, but with Murasa being part of Byakuren's group, well...
Kokoro: I kind of see her as a "too new" sort of character to show up. That said, if she does show, then maybe that will all but guarantee that Miko and/or Mamizou will show up in this game as well.
Hatate: Hm... That's a coinflip in my view, but if she was in the game, well... I have no clue how she'll play.
Nue: If she shows up, I won't be surprised.
Remilia: Three things...
1. Replace Adversity skill with Arm Twisting, to increase effectiveness of attacks against resistant foes(especially Tenshi)
2. Make "Spear the Gungnir" more effective by raising its accuracy(easier to hit with and easier to deal critical hits) and its defense piercing power(Less and less of the Enemy's DEF will be taken into account when dealing damage) via leveling up the card
3. Two additional spells: A Self-buff that allows Remi to restore health equal to a portion of the damage that she deals for a certain number of turns, with said buff's duration increasing with leveling the spell up; and a somewhat weak attack spell that attacks all enemies, but also inflicts Heavy and a EVA debuff, so that the enemies are easier to hit and land crits on.
Since Remi already has good Attack stats, improving her chances to crit and allowing her to ignore a good deal of an enemy's elemental resistance will make her better on offense, while the two new spell give her some options that help her and others to hit harder and faster, and even give her a unique self sustaining ability.
Kanako and Suwako: Fix those blasted "Ability to Create Heaven" and "Ability to Create Earth" skills to actually fit their playstyles, damn it! And unless it already does so, would it be so hard to have it also reduce the amount of damage taken as well? Kanako is supposed to take hits anyway, and Suwako can use it to survive hits. Also, I would swap out Suwako's "Agility" for the "Guts" skill, so that she can can a chance to survive the unexpected, and then bounce back with her "Native God of Earth" skill, provided that she has the TP for it.
Meiling: I still think that "Easygoing" and "Firm Defense" would fit her best, as being self sustaining is her selling point as a tank, and if she's taking hits like a tank, I see no reason why she can't gain DEF and MND by doing her job as a gate guard tank. Still, if it's too much, then maybe "Heart of Patience" and "Dexterity(this is the one that treats Attack and Magic debuffs as buffs, right?)"?
And I'm going to stop here for now because I've been up too long... (I apologize for being whiny like that...)
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Remilia: Points 1 and 2 are fine, but Remilia doesn't need additional spells imo. The developers need to imitate what they managed to do in LoT1: Make Remilia's kit really simple but surprisingly effective. The reason why she's kind of meh compared to Kasen is because she essentially saw no change from LoT1. Sure a few skills that kind of give Remilia more power, but these skills are not nearly enough considering how everyone else was improved from LoT1. I stuck with Remilia all through out LoT1 because she was that effective despite having only two spells (granted I haven't tried the final boss of the plus disk with her and my team but its only a matter of time before everyone's stats are worthy of an attempt).
Suwako getting the Guts skill? No bueno.
She's a glass cannon just like all the other glass cannons. She shouldn't be able to survive a hit period. Either rely on Evasion or good switching skills to keep her alive. I know that Guts is chance based just like Evasion, but it doesn't fit with how she's meant to be played. A frail character doesn't magically take a lethal blow and survive. A sturdy character like Kasen and Meiling on the other hand, could reasonably do this and survive just on sheer will power and this fits thematically with their character type.
About Aya's free turn spell:
It doesn't really give characters two free turns. Its just everyone interprets it that way because ideally, you'd switch your nuker in so that she manages to get her turn just before Aya's, she unleashes her nuke, Aya gives her another turn, she nukes again.
Also, just reminding everyone that the only benefit to leveling up her spell is when the character gets to act. If you keep the spell at level 1, the character would have her time bar set to 10000, which probably means she'll get her turn after other characters who charged their time bar normally. Leveling up Aya's spell to 2 would set the receiver's time bar to 20000, which guarantees that the recipient always act immediately after Aya.
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Woops, meant to edit my last post instead of making another post.
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Would it be bad to give Remi Encounter with a Formidable Foe? The reason for this is to give me some strong incentive to have her be much more reliable against bosses as that was her main strength (as well as her staying power) in LoT 1.
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I like remi, and i still do t have her yet in lot2, but assuming she is remotely as survivable in it as lot1... Giving her a hp drain to her normal attacks would be broken. Consider her being a defense build instead of offense in terms of level up bonuses if you still arent convinced.
She'd basically be like china only with much better mitigation, slightly less hp, actually good damage, good speed (for switching), able to self heal more often (both cuz speed, and cuz spear is more mana efficient, and cuz she recovers sp with a focus super fast), and... Unable to heal others.
Now you may argue her self heal with attacks wouldnt be large like china's. but as long as it was significant enough to bring up at all, 'd be crazy good because defense build remi who can self buff her def and mnd (and both being good at base to boot), she pretty much takes 0s more than anyone who isnt tenshi or magic boss vs mnd patchy (or parsee now).
Of course... Maybe her defenses arent as good in lot2 i dunno.
And kasen has pretty much better stats across the board, the same kind of spells (and others), levels faster iirc... Lawl. Basically kasen is what remi should be if this game had class upgrades =\
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We don't know how much characters they are going to add, but my guess would be 12 to bring the roster to a nice round 60. My line-up would be (other than Shou): Mamizou, Nue (I vote for some sort of random elements to make her as weird as possible), Kokoro (interactions with masks like you said), Toyosatomimi and Futo (to have our Taoist team), Ichirin (with some form of interaction with Unzan), Koishi, Yamame (would be like Hina, just for ailments instead of debuffs), Akyuu, Tewi (since she's an earth rabbit, she'll be completly different from Reisen, and we can get a Eientei full group), and 1 more.
I don't see them adding Letty (too similar to Cirno), the Prismriver sisters (unless they put all three in one, since they are pretty much all the exact same), Shizuka (too similar to Minoriko), Medicine (would be the same role as Wriggle, just not as a tank), anyone from PC-98 (we haven't gotten any from the previous game or any hints in this one, sorry Mima and Shiki fans) or anyone from the 14th game (the game is too recent, maybe we could get Seija, cause she was really popular). The three fairies of light would have to all be in if they decide to add them, it wouldn't make sense to only have 1, and they all have different abilities and spellcards, not like the Prismrivers. I'm still on the fence about Hatate, she has potential, but it could be easy to see her as filling the same role as Aya, and thus, have no use other than being a reskin of another character.
Also, with them adding new skills, I want a way to get Keine into Hakutaku form, that would be a fun gimmick, or anything that would be stance/form changes for characters
3. Two additional spells: A Self-buff that allows Remi to restore health equal to a portion of the damage that she deals for a certain number of turns, with said buff's duration increasing with leveling the spell up
I don't think she needs more spells, but how about a Vampirism skill instead? Heals everytime she deals damage or something like that. A skill for both her and her sister, would kinda make sense for them, since you know, they are vampires after all
About Aya's free turn spell:
It doesn't really give characters two free turns. Its just everyone interprets it that way because ideally, you'd switch your nuker in so that she manages to get her turn just before Aya's, she unleashes her nuke, Aya gives her another turn, she nukes again.
Also, just reminding everyone that the only benefit to leveling up her spell is when the character gets to act. If you keep the spell at level 1, the character would have her time bar set to 10000, which probably means she'll get her turn after other characters who charged their time bar normally. Leveling up Aya's spell to 2 would set the receiver's time bar to 20000, which guarantees that the recipient always act immediately after Aya.
Not only that, but some skills that activate when the characters gets a turn sometimes have the condition that their ATB bar needs to be higher than 10000 to activate (First Aid from the Healer subclass for example), so it does benefit from giving it 1 more level, but more leveling it higher than that doesn't have much point.
In other news, I'm in vacation! No school this summer, so my schedule should look like this:
1. Work
2. Study japanese
3. Finally finish translating this goddamn game
So look forward to it!
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Akyuu has got high chances to appear, Koishi must be in the game, Yamame, Nue and Mamizou would be great options Yamame and Koishi would complete the undregriund group, Miko and Futo are extremely greqt options I'm already thinking some of their skills, Ichirin WOW, Imagine the effects of her spells, Kokoro I WANT HER, Tewi, uf! Tewi is hard chances are either low or high, as for the extra slot It's hard to decide between Hatate and Letty, but I choose Hatate, I've got Patchy for cold spells, if only one of the three fairies of light, it should be Sunny.
Great! Back to work with translation, hope you fix the Chen bug and the level unification bug.
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Is the expansion likely to be released as a huge patch? Or is it more likely to be a separate thing I'd have to buy again?
I ask because I didn't know about LoT1 until way after the Special Disk was out so I got that.
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Okay, here we go...
Remilia: Points 1 and 2 are fine, but Remilia doesn't need additional spells imo. The developers need to imitate what they managed to do in LoT1: Make Remilia's kit really simple but surprisingly effective. The reason why she's kind of meh compared to Kasen is because she essentially saw no change from LoT1. Sure a few skills that kind of give Remilia more power, but these skills are not nearly enough considering how everyone else was improved from LoT1. I stuck with Remilia all through out LoT1 because she was that effective despite having only two spells (granted I haven't tried the final boss of the plus disk with her and my team but its only a matter of time before everyone's stats are worthy of an attempt).
And the fact that Remilia was good throughout LoT1 despite having only one attack spell is pretty much why I suggested new spells. The second attack spell, in particular, would help out a lot, as it's designed for support more than pure offense.
I like remi, and i still do t have her yet in lot2, but assuming she is remotely as survivable in it as lot1... Giving her a hp drain to her normal attacks would be broken. Consider her being a defense build instead of offense in terms of level up bonuses if you still arent convinced.
She'd basically be like china only with much better mitigation, slightly less hp, actually good damage, good speed (for switching), able to self heal more often (both cuz speed, and cuz spear is more mana efficient, and cuz she recovers sp with a focus super fast), and... Unable to heal others.
Now you may argue her self heal with attacks wouldnt be large like china's. but as long as it was significant enough to bring up at all, 'd be crazy good because defense build remi who can self buff her def and mnd (and both being good at base to boot), she pretty much takes 0s more than anyone who isnt tenshi or magic boss vs mnd patchy (or parsee now).
Of course... Maybe her defenses arent as good in lot2 i dunno.
And kasen has pretty much better stats across the board, the same kind of spells (and others), levels faster iirc... Lawl. Basically kasen is what remi should be if this game had class upgrades =\
A. I suppose that means that a HP draining buff is as bad as a HP regen buff...
B. Exactly. Something tells me that Kasen is supposed to be the NEW Remilia, while poor Remi has been left up a creek without a paddle, which is why I suggested new spells. The second attack spell(I would call it Miserable Fate, by the way, after one of her spellcards in the fighting games), again, is what I suggest to allow Remi to stay in the game, as it works in making her into a Critical Hit Class, either with a Spear The Gungnir, or by binding the enemy in chains with Miserable Fate, so she(and everyone else) can smash everyone in the face, and hard.
Suwako getting the Guts skill? No bueno.
She's a glass cannon just like all the other glass cannons. She shouldn't be able to survive a hit period. Either rely on Evasion or good switching skills to keep her alive. I know that Guts is chance based just like Evasion, but it doesn't fit with how she's meant to be played. A frail character doesn't magically take a lethal blow and survive. A sturdy character like Kasen and Meiling on the other hand, could reasonably do this and survive just on sheer will power and this fits thematically with their character type.
jaxter, what is Suwako's current EVA? And even if they improved that, the reason Guts would be there in the first place is to work in tandem with her "Native God of Earth" skill as an emergency measure that other glass cannons don't have(to put it simply, I see this as a skill combo unique to Suwako). Otherwise, why would she even have the "power to recover fully by switching out and using up 1 TP" skill at all? I mean, how much TP does Suwako have in the first place? 11 TP to bounce back to full health is not cheap by any means, so it isn't like she would be able to tank hits like Kasen or Meiling, especially since you only get a fifty/fifty shot at it each time.
About Aya's free turn spell:
It doesn't really give characters two free turns. Its just everyone interprets it that way because ideally, you'd switch your nuker in so that she manages to get her turn just before Aya's, she unleashes her nuke, Aya gives her another turn, she nukes again.
I wish to ask this, then: how does her "Teachings of Gensokyo's Fastest" skill give her two free turns at the start of every fight?
Also, just reminding everyone that the only benefit to leveling up her spell is when the character gets to act. If you keep the spell at level 1, the character would have her time bar set to 10000, which probably means she'll get her turn after other characters who charged their time bar normally. Leveling up Aya's spell to 2 would set the receiver's time bar to 20000, which guarantees that the recipient always act immediately after Aya.
...wait, so my suggestion before would of been a nerf? ...that's very bizarre.
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I'm quite sure the Plus Disk is something you'll have to buy again.
The developer might also separately sell a disk with both contents for the combined price.
Aya almost always gets two turns with that skill because Aya is too fast.
After she uses her first turn, she can refill her timebar fast enough so that she can act again before anyone else.
It doesn't matter whether the skill sets her timebar to 20000, 10001, or even 99999.
For example, with a Lv. 100 Chen and a Lv. 8 Aya, Chen will get a turn before Aya's second if Aya used something like Focus on her first turn.
And it's not like every single skill should be useful to everyone who has it.
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To pick up on the Kasen/Remilia discussion:
So Kasen has better stats and more spells.
The question is: Does Remilia in LoT2 actually feel too weak (compared to all characters) or is Kasen just too good?
Remilia's stats still seem very high, like in LoT1, Kasen's are just even higher. If Remilia isn't too weak in the grand scheme of things and Kasen is even better than her then the obvious solution would be to tone down Kasen's stats a bit instead of buffing Remilia, otherwise you'd end up with 2 characters that are "too good".
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Remi doesn't seem bad to me on paper (although perhaps a little bit underpowered due to being to jack-of-all-trades statwise and lacking in attack variety), but then you factor in she's part of the SDM and it gets a lot better.
When you use all of the SDM members in your party, it makes a big difference to their usefulness, I imagine. Sakuya is pretty alright either way if you -just- want Lunar Clock but she's not terribly tanky (not more than you could get from most characters in defense builds) or much good of an attacker solo. And Patch is probably usable if you build her well. But really, I think you need to use -all- the SDM members for them to actually be good, but then they should be really good.
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Nah i never said/thought remi looks bad, just that kasen makes her obsolete. Though i dont have remi yet, she just might be bad too. For example, jut looking on paper for patchy, she seems to be mostly the same deal as in lot1, which i thought she was great in. But i DO have her in lot2, and the bottom line is for me... Shes bad. Her spell formulas are not as potent, her nukes do NOT seem to be strong enough to compensate for her horribad speed like they kinda did in lot1... And worst of all, being an effective mnd tank seems far less important because seemingly every boss i fight now can do significant ( to patchy, as in 1 shot her) physical damage to the far right now, unlike before where none of the bosses did unless they had needle parade or arrow rain (which few did).
Granted i havent tried her with stacking sdm party members but i never liked sakuya's moveset to begin with, and as i said patchy can just die in one shot from virtually every boss now... I cant imagine the sdm buff is very good with just china and remi... Oh yeah, flan.... Shes not exactly someone with stayin power either.
That said, MAYBE (doubt it though) remi is actually better than kasn if her spear formula rocks some serious $@???.
I really wish we saw spell formulas qq.
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if her spear formula rocks some serious $@???.
I think Spear is indeed much better in LoT2 than in LoT1, though it's obviously still not some kind of super-nuke now.
Nah i never said/thought remi looks bad, just that kasen makes her obsolete.
"Obsolete" isn't the word I would use here. Kasen seems to outclass her, but that's not really a reason to not use her.
Using one of the two doesn't stop you from using the other one too. There might be benefits in using both.
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I will note that, according to the wiki, Remilia actually has the 2nd highest HP growth of the game losing only to Komachi by 20%. Kasen is 9th. This means Remi can be a 1st slot tank and, unlike Komachi, she has strong def (5th and 20% above average) and decent mnd (5% above average). Furthermore, with her high speed 4th fastest, losing to Rin, Chen, and Aya, allows her to be a fast attacker and switcher as well. If you give her the monk profession, this allows her to use her even higher speed and puncturing thrust as a turn delay. Beat down allows her to use the monk's Making Normal Attacks Whole to her advantage for random trash. I also like her personal skill set more than Kasen).
That being said, Kasen is more versatile being able to utilize more elements without professions (leaving her free to use another profession), her buff not requiring Meiling or a healer (and being faster), higher mind than Remi, have better leveling, and ailment resistance) in addition to being available much earlier and thus getting off a better start.
Finally, as someone said, there isn't a rule that you can't use both lightning bruisers.
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Aya almost always gets two turns with that skill because Aya is too fast.
After she uses her first turn, she can refill her timebar fast enough so that she can act again before anyone else.
It doesn't matter whether the skill sets her timebar to 20000, 10001, or even 99999.
For example, with a Lv. 100 Chen and a Lv. 8 Aya, Chen will get a turn before Aya's second if Aya used something like Focus on her first turn.
And again, that confuses me, because if a skill is going to push up the time bar like that, then why 20000? It really is confusing that they don't simply make it so that the spells and other actions of all the characters simply subtract from the timebar. I mean, the Shock status ailment(halves timebar), Yuyuko's spells, and the Diva subclass are all proof that the game can do that, so why is everything else set like it is?
And it's not like every single skill should be useful to everyone who has it.
Sungho, I'll presume that you did not mean Suwako's "Native God of Earth" skill, because if you did, I would flat out say it: If a character has a skill that isn't useful to them, then why do they have it? I would kind of understand if it was something simple and plain like Agility(more about that below), but a character with a skill that allows for a complete recovery of HP should have a situation where she can use it, especially if the name of the skill is thematically appropriate for the character.
Also, I just realized that Suwako and Kanako both have enough room for two more skills,, so I'll say what's on my mind and think of what could fit there...
Suwako: Seeing as Agility is probably there as a thing to keep Suwako from being slowed down by enemies, and Suwako is not someone who can benefit from this unless she's hit by something, I see it as a sign that you're supposed to swap her out if she takes any damage at all, so that she doesn't take two hits on the field. That said, I'll leave Agility alone, and just advise that Guts and Beat Down be added to her skill set. The former is as I said before, to make a skill combo with her unique skill "Native God of Earth", and the latter is mainly for when you use her multi-target spells to deal with floor trash, so that she doesn't run dry on MP so quickly while you go exploring.
Kanako: Ah yes, the other goddess of Moriya Shrine. I have looked into her skill set, and I can easily recommend two things to aid her further: Encounter with a Formidable Foe, and To Increase One's Fighting Spirit. The former aids Kanako in boss battles, where this skill, plus the Majesty skill, will really help in ramping up Kanako's stats in a fight. The latter is in tune with her durability, as it grants her more offensive and defensive power with each passing turn. Of course, were her "Ability to Create Heaven" skill able to reduce damage taken as well as it's normal effect of increasing damage dealt, she would become almost unstoppable... (Would she be OP if it was all added up together like that? If so, then I would have to recommend something else, but what?)
And that is all that I have for now.
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It really is confusing that they don't simply make it so that the spells and other actions of all the characters simply subtract from the timebar.
Because things are more balanced and scale better this way.
In general, you often seem to suggest things that power characters up a lot. Most of the time though, these characters don't actually need to get powered up. Suwako is a good glass cannon as she is (even if most of her abilities aren't very relevant, which I do admit is a little strange and probably could use some tweaking) at least until compared to Flandre, who is a difficult to unlock character. And Kanako seems about fine as-is, with alright durability for an offense character and a good nuke of uncommon nuke element that debuffs atk+mag together, and a second nuke for coverage. She also already has a skillset that is entirely useful; none of her skills are unrelevant, like most of Suwako's are.
...actually, I think Guts on Suwako actually would be pretty nice switch for one of her skills, I have to admit. But yeah Kanako is fine.
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Because things are more balanced and scale better this way.
In general, you often seem to suggest things that power characters up a lot. Most of the time though, these characters don't actually need to get powered up. Suwako is a good glass cannon as she is (even if most of her abilities aren't very relevant, which I do admit is a little strange and probably could use some tweaking) at least until compared to Flandre, who is a difficult to unlock character. And Kanako seems about fine as-is, with alright durability for an offense character and a good nuke of uncommon nuke element that debuffs atk+mag together, and a second nuke for coverage. She also already has a skillset that is entirely useful; none of her skills are unrelevant, like most of Suwako's are.
...actually, I think Guts on Suwako actually would be pretty nice switch for one of her skills, I have to admit. But yeah Kanako is fine.
Sadly, this sort of thing is kind of a habit of mine, since my nature in games is to play it safe, rather than risk it all, so I do apologize for that, Serela.
If Kanako's fine as is, then so be it. The truth being that something tells me that she kinda has everything that she needs, something that I cannot say for Suwako.
Quick question: Would adding Beat Down as well for Suwako be too much, because I remember that it doesn't increase in power with how many enemies you kill as the same time, so it would be used much in the same way as with Flandre(only more so, because Suwako doesn't use as much MP as Flandre, but still more than the skill can actually restore).
Also, exactly how it is that things scale better by setting the timebar to the same number, rather than subtracting from the timebar? As I recall, the timebar lets you act when you reach 10000 or higher(how the system can't catch the timebar at exactly 10000 every time, with some guidelines as to deal with what order people go in if they have a tie, is also a point of confusion in my opinion, since a computer program should have no problems whatsoever in doing this, regardless of what computer is running it), so subtracting by a set number, rather than setting the timebar directly, shouldn't really affect how it functions in game.
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So I've been trying to take out the Strengthen Bosses, and it's rough going. My team is generally in the high 120s-low 140s, but I've generally been unable to put up any kind of good offense/got shredded before getting to do anything. The only ones I've been able to kill so far are the Nut Eater and Paralyzing Wasp with instadeath and the
Black Goddess
with Nitori/Aya/Yukari. Does anyone have any advice for taking on the other nine? Advice for specific ones would be very appreciated.
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I like remi, and i still do t have her yet in lot2, but assuming she is remotely as survivable in it as lot1... Giving her a hp drain to her normal attacks would be broken. Consider her being a defense build instead of offense in terms of level up bonuses if you still arent convinced.
She'd basically be like china only with much better mitigation, slightly less hp, actual good damage, good speed (for switching), able to self heal more often (both cuz speed, and cuz spear is more mana efficient, and cuz she recovers sp with a focus super fast), and... Unable to heal others.
Now you may argue her self heal with attacks wouldnt be large like china's. but as long as it was significant enough to bring up at all, 'd be crazy good because defense build remi who can self buff her def and mnd (and both being good at base to boot), she pretty much takes 0s more than anyone who isnt tenshi or magic boss vs mnd patchy (or parsee now).
Of course... Maybe her defenses arent as good in lot2 i dunno.
From what I remember seeing on an earlier post, her defenses aren't as good in LoT2. Meiling is much more tanky than Remi due to her ability to sustain herself and has actual passives that make her a tank. Remi (who actually has better slight better HP and DEF growth, and better MND growth, and better overall resistances) Does not tank passives and no way of sustaining herself. Remi is meant to be a fast bulky DPS attacker. If you made her a tank, she wouldn't do so well. She doesn't really have the qualities of a tank, but like I said before, bulky DPS. Making her a tank would mean you'd have to sacrifice her speed, and power. Sure she'd end up being faster and maybe hit harder (Don't underestimate Meiling's mountain breaker, it actually hits quite hard for having low atk), but what would set her apart from other tanks? Does she sustain herself really well from getting hurt? Like she gets nuked and refill herself to full kind of hurt? (and unless Remi is Aya fast, she ain't gonna be spearing enough to fill herself to full) Can heal others? A big HP stat with regeneration stat? Can apply debuffs and/or ailments? She applies ailments to herself so that's about it. That curse of Vlad Tepes is probably the thing that would not make her a tank. She applies poison and paralysis to herself. Sure Tenshi has stat of enlightenment which applies heavy and paralysis, but she doesn't poison herself. That kind of defeats the purpose of being a tank. Kasen has a lower HP growth but higher DEF and MND growth than Meiling, but are you gonna use her as a tank? No, she's gonna be a bulky DPS. Not saying it's impossible, with the right support she could be a good tank but, why would you use her as a tank when you have other specifically designed tanks who can support themselves without that much need for help? Point is, a lifesteal passive wouldn't make Meiling useless (if that what was you were implying)
Also, I see no reason to nerf Aya. She's fine the way she is. Sure she can move twice or even three times before everyone else, is that a bad thing? Her offensive potential isn't exactly that high, and she's mono-wind too. Plus, she'd run out of mana really fast too. (I've experienced that a few times) I think Suwako does need some tweaking, fix some of her passives. Beat Down actually sounds cool imo. Guts Suwako doesn't sound very Suwakoish. Maybe something similar to it?
Also, I beileve Kokoro would be too new to be put in LoT2. HM didn't come out that long ago. She would certainly be cool though with her mask concept.
I don't think Kasen is "too good". She just outclasses Remi. Remi needs to have a niche that seperates her from Kasen. I remember reading earlier about making Spear ignore defense, that seems like a good alternative. Also maybe get rid of the paralysis part of Curse of Vlad Tepes, I know it's a very good buff and all, but getting poisoned and paralyzed? Not a good combo. I think it's worth and all but still. Just one of the other, or a different ailment would be good. Maybe Poison and Heavy? Having one more spell wouldn't be too bad imo. Misreable Fate seems like the likely choice. But maybe one more spell might make her too good... hm.
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I was thinking replacing Last Fortress with Eyes that Perceive Reality (When ____ attacks or is attacked by an enemy with stat buffs, damage is calculated as if enemy's buffs are non-existant) and Mental Concentration with Piercing Attack(Against enemies with extremely high defenses, some defense-ignoring damage will still go through. ) , making her attacks very reliable regardless if enemies buff themselves and/or have ridiculously high def. I was thinking Encounter with a Formidable Foe but combined with majesty might cause her to constantly passively self-buff herself out of control.
Speaking of comparing Remilia to Meiling, I'm going to see what happen if I make Remilia a healer and see how that goes (current profession is monk). I'll report back after the results. It's not the craziest idea that I thought of.
Edit 1: Question, aside from the stat up and boss level restriction, what else is different about hard mode?
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I was thinking replacing Last Fortress with Eyes that Perceive Reality (When ____ attacks or is attacked by an enemy with stat buffs, damage is calculated as if enemy's buffs are non-existant) and Mental Concentration with Piercing Attack(Against enemies with extremely high defenses, some defense-ignoring damage will still go through. ) , making her attacks very reliable regardless if enemies buff themselves and/or have ridiculously high def. I was thinking Encounter with a Formidable Foe but combined with majesty might cause her to constantly passively self-buff herself out of control.
Speaking of comparing Remilia to Meiling, I'm going to see what happen if I make Remilia a healer and see how that goes (current profession is monk). I'll report back after the results. It's not the craziest idea that I thought of.
I like the replacing Last Fortress being replaced idea, but not Mental Concentration. Mental Concentration synergizes with her Majesty passive, allowing her to stay in and then sustain her mana while buffing her every stat every turn. Maybe replace Last Fortress with Piercing attack instead. I mean, Last Fortress is nice and all vs. those really evil bosses that kill everything (like certain strengthened/extra bosses), but piercing attack is more useful at all points of the game. Though Last Fortress just sounds really cool for Remi. (You killed my gatekeeper, my maid, my magician, and my sister, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH ME BEFORE YOU TAKE THIS MANSION) Eyes that perceive reality sounds nice and all, but it doesn't seem like a Remi skill imo. Maybe it's better than what I think. Also, I think there is someone with Majesty and Encounter with a formidable opponent, was it Yuuka? Or maybe it's actually no one, I don't remember.
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Correct, Yuuka has both except for the fact that she's tied with being the 5th slowest and does not have a self-buff spellcard so is not able to take advantage of it as heavily even with a fast delay flower shot. Remi has a decent delay on Gungnir and make herself very fast with monk and piercing thrust (not Aya speed, not THAT fast, but definitely hits harder).
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Correct, Yuuka has both except for the fact that she's tied with being the 5th slowest and does not have a self-buff spellcard so is not able to take advantage of it as heavily even with a fast delay flower shot.
Yuuka actually does take advantage of "Encounter with a formidable foe" in a big way since she has Extra Attack. She is usually able to keep her buffs at around 70% or so without a tactician on the field.
But about Remi: She does work really well in a team that has some more SDM characters but lacks utility. This makes it so that you have to construct situations around using her during bossfights but successfully doing so doesn't really pay of too much since, i.e. the Yakumo's just wreck everything if you get Ran to first buff everyone a little bit, then take out Chen and Yukari, let Ran concentrate to buff Chen and then have her and Yukari go to town with Shikigami+ and Flight of Idaten.
Remi isn't weak or anything but rather impractical to use and everything she does right now has somebody else who can do it as well or better than her.
A decent and thematically fitting buff for her could be that for Remilia (and only for her) the SDM bonus is still active at half strength for members that are in the team but not active. This way you could reasonably have all 5 and play Patchouli and Flan in the hit & run style that they need to be played in. It would also open up more possible ways to build Sakuya since right now she is pushed into the supporting/bulky niche to be able to provide the SDM buff since everyone else bar Meiling and Remilia herself isn't capable of staying in.
So I've been trying to take out the Strengthen Bosses, (...)
Another one that is rather easy to beat would be the "Memorized Knowledge" but only if you have someone that is capable of a) surviving its attack and b) fast enough to switch in and out two characters before it attacks again.
Someone like Komachi would work. (iirc Parsee doesn't since what it uses is somewhat Mind piercing). In the end this strategy requires only 3 people of which 1 is the one taking the hit, 1 has to heal her up and a 3rd one deals damage. I can recommend Rumia with Demarcation or about anyone with strong physical Dark/Physical moves. You'll have to try out a little to figure out the timing for when you have to switch out again and how often you can attack.
That Plant thing that was originally around Meiling (Jungle's Demonic Eye) is also rather manageable if you have enough damageoutput to regularly kill its spawns. If not then don't bother because they will just heal it up and wreck your team. Utsuho does number on it and can take its hits well enough.
Don't bother with the Magatama & Mirror for now. They are evil.
The rest I don't remember too well so I can't really say anything about those. What always helps is to just repeatedly try the fight, see what attacks the boss uses and equip the proper resistances.
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Wow.... 48 characters in one huge boss battle ?
Can't wait to start over from scratch and use various characters instead of only the op ones aha.
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If you made her a tank, she wouldn't do so well. She doesn't really have the qualities of a tank, but like I said before, bulky DPS. Does she sustain herself really well from getting hurt? Like she gets nuked and refill herself to full kind of hurt? (and unless Remi is Aya fast, she ain't gonna be spearing enough to fill herself to full) Can heal others? A big HP stat with regeneration stat? Can apply debuffs and/or ailments? She applies ailments to herself so that's about it. That curse of Vlad Tepes is probably the thing that would not make her a tank. She applies poison and paralysis to herself.
I think you're massively underrating Curse of Vlad Tepes as a defensive buff here.
If I'm not mistaken you can still prevent the self inflicted poison with decent posion resistance in LoT2 and having your tanks highly resistant to status is beneficial anyway. Then it becomes a great ability for tanking. Remilia naturally has very high defensive stats and buffing those up with Curse of Vlad Tepes makes her really durable. You don't need the hp recovery other tanks might have when you take considerably less damage than they do in the first place.
Though I mostly agree that she's meant as a bulky dps and also better at that role.
I'm also still unsure if buffing Remilia wouldn't make her too good in boss battles. Her usefulness is very limited in random encounters, but it was like that in LoT1 too. Shes meant for boss battles and that's where she shines. She has high stats and her passives (like majesty) and selfbuff amplify those already high stats. Once she reaches a certain point she's very durable and deals good damage very fast and often due to her high speed and Spears reasonable delay.
If you buff her stats or Spear's formula she might end up handily outclassing Kasen instead, at least in bossbattles. Though I guess that might not necessarily be a bad thing since Remilia's usefulness would still mostly be limited to boss battles. If she's only useful for one thing she should be one of the best choices for that.
I'm also against giving her a multitarget attack, that would make Remilia and Kasen just too similar. Diversity is good.
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Thats my point, like i said, *if* she comes across as tanky as she was in lot1, maintaining her defensive buff up will mean she WILL take 0s most of the time from bosses, a which point what DOES china have over her i she could self-heal with her attack?
Incidentally everyone said how bad she was as a def build in lot1 but i preferred her that way, and completed the gMe numerous times with her often being mvp at level ranges lower than the norm. Note i didnt use her as a first slot tank, but a nuke still. But one that can always be out fighting that doesnt even need heals in slot 2 unless the boss uses something that is generally meant to 1shot anybody remotely less tanky than tank build reimu (pretty sure everyone mader like that but whatever).
Someone said by making her a monk is good and puncturing thrust hits harder and faster... This is actually auite disturbing. Basically gung's formula must not be very good at all it a subclass nuke that focuses on speed over power out-does it. Even if it was a power oriented class spear should fare better imo given ITS HER ONLY DAMN ATTACK AND IS SINGLE TARGET. I mean if you have only 1 attack in the game and everyone else has up to 5 wouldnt you expect it to be good? Like... Better than something everyone else can get anyway in addition to theirs? Gosh.
I agree about not wanting a multi target though.
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@ Nerv-Faktor I was never underrating her Curse of Vlad Tepes as a defensive buff. I never mentioned that she couldn't take hits. I was just pointing out her lack of utility. Which is something that (I believe) every tanky character should have. If they have no utility, then their damage should make up A LOT for it. From which, Remi might be able to do so.
@ Ghaleon Meiling has a defense buffing aura, gets bonus damage reduction from being in the 2nd slot (and speed that doesn't work for some reason), heals herself very well (and it scales with her damage), can heal/cleric others, does fairly moderate amount of damage, has a very low cost + atb usage spell for [insert tactics]. I haven't played LoT1, but from what you were saying, Remi sounds like she was "too" tanky. I think it would just depend on the bosses you're up against really. If the boss has really high armor, Remi would probably only be able to scratch it barely, and then not really contribute except for being a fast switcher and tanking hits really well. This is why I don't think Remi would outclass Meiling in tanking. In that same boss fight, Meiling can heal herself, cleric + heal others, and use her brilliant light gem in order to switch people quickly and such while taking hits just as well as her esp. with an Enchanter Reimu on the side.
If Remi got a buff to her Spear, I believe it would make her really good in boss battles, but I don't think it'd make her outclass Kasen. Like, it'd be kind of a 50/50 thing depending on the boss. Does the boss have moderate/low armor and is weak to wind/dark/nature? Does the boss have low terror/paralysis/debuff resistance? Use Kasen. Does the boss have really high armor, weak to physical attacks, and has high atb usage attacks? Use Remi. (Assuming her Spear got defense ignoring properties or if she got piercing attack) That's at least how I think it would be.
Yeah, maybe she doesn't need a multi target spell. Maybe a 2nd single target spell? Or just make tweaks to her spear and/or passive skills?
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Puncturing Thrust actually does a bit less damage than Gungnir, element assuming neutral for both. I did 13k with Gungnir and 10k with Puncturing Thrust to a Crimson Beast in the temperature puzzle area which would equate to similar DPS. However, thrust also constantly augments your speed and considering Remilia gets stronger with every turn with Majesty and SDM, this synergizes with her pretty well. What is worrisome is that she can be able to buff herself decently by spamming Thrust up to her Curse of Vlad Tepes and that spell card doesn't buff speed. (now that I think about it, why does Kasen's spellcard also buff her speed and remi's doesn't?)
One thing I did note about thrust vs gungnir is that thrust is less effective on enemies with higher def. In a subsequential battle vs Yukari. I did twice as much damage to her with Gungnir than with thrust so the latter is probably just going to be a ramping up attack.
Going to retry the battle with Healer remi next. Actually just finished. Geez, Remi is healing for 6k and enough to even give Komachi a huge recovery. Now if Remi specced into HP she is pretty damn tough.
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Im actually thinking of strategist remi because that passive will reduce how fast vlad wears off, and majesty will be able to stack higher (it wesrs off like normal buffs right? Im not sure).
But yeah i wasnt really wanting monk myself cuz fast attacks makes her vlad buff wear off sooner, so i was thinking warrior for similar reasons too. Different element to work with, more general power, etc
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(now that I think about it, why does Kasen's spellcard also buff her speed and remi's doesn't?)
It might be due to the boss battle you have in LoT2 Where if you kill Sakuya first, Remi buffs all her stats except speed, while if you kill Remi first, Sakuya only maxes her out her speed. A sort of contrast I guess?
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Im actually thinking of strategist remi because that passive will reduce how fast vlad wears off, and majesty will be able to stack higher (it wesrs off like normal buffs right? Im not sure).
But yeah i wasnt really wanting monk myself cuz fast attacks makes her vlad buff wear off sooner, so i was thinking warrior for similar reasons too. Different element to work with, more general power, etc
That might be more sound than monk. I already spec'ed her out on monk and into healer and put her into healer since her HP is pretty stellar and can serve as a secondary tank if needed or be a very solid second rank attacker/healer.
And yes, Majesty is a buff.
It might be due to the boss battle you have in LoT2 Where if you kill Sakuya first, Remi buffs all her stats except speed, while if you kill Remi first, Sakuya only maxes her out her speed. A sort of contrast I guess?
Is the game implying that you should keep those two together? I wonder.
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Is the game implying that you should keep those two together? I wonder.
Well, the game DOES give you a passive skill that buffs their stats when they're together... >:V
Sakuya can be pretty amusing when she feels like extra attacking Lunar Clock several times. Since I found out that without other SDM members her offense is pretty meh, I specced her as a tank and gave her Enhancer so Lunar Clock extra attack shenanigans turns into a party heal. Now it's even more amusing! (The subclass buffs are decent utility sometimes.) I wonder how nice Killing Doll might become with it's formula if you had a big SDM bonus on her, though.
Also, Yuuka was brought up earlier; having both Majesty and Encounter With a Formidable Foe and Extra Attack makes her pretty amusing, too, as she casts Flower Shot 4 times and is then heavily buffed up and it never wears off. Plus it makes her two multitarget skill's special effects more noteworthy if you manage to proc Extra with them... but unreliable. It takes both the help of her self-buffing and some special attention to equips/stats to make her able to take a strong hit decently enough to be able to stay in, though.
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Well, the game DOES give you a passive skill that buffs their stats when they're together... >:V
Sakuya can be pretty amusing when she feels like extra attacking Lunar Clock several times. Since I found out that without other SDM members her offense is pretty meh, I specced her as a tank and gave her Enhancer so Lunar Clock extra attack shenanigans turns into a party heal. Now it's even more amusing! (The subclass buffs are decent utility sometimes.) I wonder how nice Killing Doll might become with it's formula if you had a big SDM bonus on her, though.
From the previous game, Killing Doll was pretty powerful if she was fulled buffed and it didn't had any SDM bonus. If they kept the same kit for it where it has a huge attack and opponent defense modifier, then I would assume the same here.
Also, Yuuka was brought up earlier; having both Majesty and Encounter With a Formidable Foe and Extra Attack makes her pretty amusing, too, as she casts Flower Shot 4 times and is then heavily buffed up and it never wears off. Plus it makes her two multitarget skill's special effects more noteworthy if you manage to proc Extra with them... but unreliable. It takes both the help of her self-buffing and some special attention to equips/stats to make her able to take a strong hit decently enough to be able to stay in, though.
Wait, so Encounter with a Formidible Foe, Majesty, and Flowers do not Wither in Gensokyo will multi-proc with extra attack?
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So far taking a few notes speedrunning this. This is what I got so far.
http://pastebin.com/FAPgd028
Mainly covers Floor 1 with a very brief runthrough of Floor 2. I need to look at a few more things through, so I might do an edit to Floor 1 to grab the Great Tree Leaf Bundle for Minoriko.
On another note, what is the trigger to start crafting in Nitori's shop? If it's Kogasa then...
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Speedrunning the game was best in the version with the bugged Unify function where you gained infinite levelup bonuses and skill points B)
DodgingRain:I'm not sure how many of them stack with Yuuka's Extra Attack, but at the least, Formidable Foe does. Maybe sometime I should actually pay attention. Her damage does rise up pretty fast with the multiple procs... anyway, Sakuya's Killing Doll really has trouble actually piercing through the DEF of many bosses in this game enough to become a worthy use of your time and effort; and on many bosses where it would work alright, they resist DRK. Due to it's formula though, it's damage might spike sharply with 20~30% bonus attack from SDM. Might be better in the later parts of the game compared to where I am, too.
Although, in ThLaby1, it was only... passable-tier as a low-delay boss attack in comparison to other characters, with consideration of using The World. Since Sakuya wasn't too frail and had Lunar Clock, though, those helped a little; it wasn't completely terrible of an idea to use her for offense, but she just didn't output the damage most other characters could. The worst part for her was probably that SPD scaled pretty badly (so her speed buffs stop being worth a slot in the party, and eventually even the effort it took to use and upkeep them), and she was also supposed to have a niche use in Soul Sculpture ignoring enemy evasion.
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So far taking a few notes speedrunning this. This is what I got so far.
http://pastebin.com/FAPgd028
Mainly covers Floor 1 with a very brief runthrough of Floor 2. I need to look at a few more things through, so I might do an edit to Floor 1 to grab the Great Tree Leaf Bundle for Minoriko.
On another note, what is the trigger to start crafting in Nitori's shop? If it's Kogasa then...
I don't quite remember, but I think it was reaching the 3rd floor.
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I don't quite remember, but I think it was reaching the 3rd floor.
Hit the 3rd floor but it's not showing up. Might mess around a bit and see.
Edit: Figured it out. You unlock it by beating the FOE on Floor 2. Might have to grab the Fairy Soul material, but it unlocked immediately after I beat it.
Edit 2: Nope don't need to grab it. I might grab the Training Manual though since I can use it on someone.
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Wait, so Encounter with a Formidible Foe, Majesty, and Flowers do not Wither in Gensokyo will multi-proc with extra attack?
Each new hit that procs from extra attack calculates the damage again with the new buffs that you get from "Encounter with a formidable foe" and also readjusts the damage gained from "Tormenting Nature". Additionally the heal from Reflowering will proc each time with extra attack and the ailment increase from Beauty of Nature as well.
"Majesty" and "Flowers do not Wither" are unaffected as those are counted per turn taken not attack performed.
So, all in all her kit brings out an incredible synergie with itself which makes her really strong in the later parts of the game. (But maybe you shouldn't take me as a reference since I put about 10 times the money into raising her stats that into anyone else and gave her the best equipment I have. :V)
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God! Easily bet Yukari in new game+ when Rin and Yuuka hitted her with extra attack 8 times in a row
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Hit the 3rd floor but it's not showing up. Might mess around a bit and see.
Edit: Figured it out. You unlock it by beating the FOE on Floor 2. Might have to grab the Fairy Soul material, but it unlocked immediately after I beat it.
Edit 2: Nope don't need to grab it. I might grab the Training Manual though since I can use it on someone.
Has this been written into the wiki? Or does it still say that you have to beat Komachi or something like that?
Personally, if you can access the item crafting before Komachi, that means that, provided the right materials are accessible, you can make some stuff that can resist instant death, which would make an otherwise messy fight a whole lot easier. Oh, and you get Nitori, who can act as a powerful nuke with a few levels and the right equipment.
The whole Remilia debate: I'll simply quote something from myself to act as a basis for me to start from...
Remilia: Three things...
1. Replace Adversity skill with Arm Twisting, to increase effectiveness of attacks against resistant foes(especially Tenshi)
2. Make "Spear the Gungnir" more effective by raising its accuracy(easier to hit with and easier to deal critical hits) and its defense piercing power(Less and less of the Enemy's DEF will be taken into account when dealing damage) via leveling up the card
This is what I said would be a good idea to help her out, and I still stand by it, as Spear the Gungnir is her main attack, and should become able to punch holes in even the toughest foes.
As for "Miserable Fate", I was the one who suggested that move, and I decided that it would be a low power multi-target move with the ability to both inflict Heavy and a EVA debuff(the latter of which no one else can do) because it serves to give her a utility spell that has synergy with her other spells(lowering EVA increases the chance for critical hits) and skills(Arm Twisting makes it easier to land ailments and debuffs, Impact Attack adds Shock to the spell, granting a chance to slow down a crowd of foes), and makes it different from Suika's, Yuugi's, and yes, Kasen's ailment dealing spells because it is a multi-target spell, which would make Miserable Fate somewhat more akin to Alice's Tripwire, if anything. It doesn't take from her "bulky DPS" character status, merely gives her a move to set up enemies for more damaging blows(read: Every Nuker character in the game and then some), and this, plus the rest that I had suggested, would make her into a "Critical Hit Class" type of character, which would make her unique from Kasen.
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The whole Remilia debate: I'll simply quote something from myself to act as a basis for me to start from...
This is what I said would be a good idea to help her out, and I still stand by it, as Spear the Gungnir is her main attack, and should become able to punch holes in even the toughest foes.
As for "Miserable Fate", I was the one who suggested that move, and I decided that it would be a low power multi-target move with the ability to both inflict Heavy and a EVA debuff(the latter of which no one else can do) because it serves to give her a utility spell that has synergy with her other spells(lowering EVA increases the chance for critical hits) and skills(Arm Twisting makes it easier to land ailments and debuffs, Impact Attack adds Shock to the spell, granting a chance to slow down a crowd of foes), and makes it different from Suika's, Yuugi's, and yes, Kasen's ailment dealing spells because it is a multi-target spell, which would make Miserable Fate somewhat more akin to Alice's Tripwire, if anything. It doesn't take from her "bulky DPS" character status, merely gives her a move to set up enemies for more damaging blows(read: Every Nuker character in the game and then some), and this, plus the rest that I had suggested, would make her into a "Critical Hit Class" type of character, which would make her unique from Kasen.
That actually sounds like a good idea.
Also, you could access Nitori before the Koma battle, but I don't think you could any death resistant items yet, but you did get some death resistance items from looking around and stuff.
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Has this been written into the wiki? Or does it still say that you have to beat Komachi or something like that?
Personally, if you can access the item crafting before Komachi, that means that, provided the right materials are accessible, you can make some stuff that can resist instant death, which would make an otherwise messy fight a whole lot easier. Oh, and you get Nitori, who can act as a powerful nuke with a few levels and the right equipment.
I might be able to do it just with the 1 Sorrow of Oiran I pick up on Floor 3. As a bit of a test run I managed to get her down about halfway. However I was using Youmu to tank since she has higher death resistance, and I figured she might be able to take a shot or too. Well I was quite wrong on that front, So I gave her the Purple Metallic Armor, first hit she takes not only did the exact amount of HP she had, but also was a Death proc. Chances are I'm just going to need maybe 1 level or 2. Minoriko is going to be the savior for this fight thanks to Komachi's Nature weakness, so Kasen is mainly going to be an ATK and SPD debuff to help weaken Komachi.
I can only make 3 items right now, so while doing a bit of grinding on 3F, I can grab the materials on the floor and see if I can get anything.
For the Crafting thing, I know I saw it there a long time ago, but the only 2 instances I saw didn't really mention specifics on when it's unlocked.
Also, you could access Nitori before the Koma battle, but I don't think you could any death resistant items yet, but you did get some death resistance items from looking around and stuff.
You might be able to get all but 1 Material for the Sorrow Oiran, but I haven't bothered checking to see if that 1 Material can be grabbed on any of the floors. I just know enemies won't drop it.
Trying to debate if I should grab Wriggle or not. A number of bosses and even FOEs that I need to fight are weak to poison, so it could come in handy. Outside those fights though she doesn't seem like she could be..too useful. At the same time, fighting those 2 bosses to get her could get me some much needed exp and even items.
Edit: Forget, what are the Iron Scrap event things for?
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Edit: Forget, what are the Iron Scrap event things for?
Recruiting Nazrin.
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Good, no need to do those events then.
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From my exp playing this game, 60 death resistance is enough to prevent instant death, so Youmu doesn't need anymore death resistance. For the Koma fight, the thing I did was tempoarily change some of her attack bonus points and put it into her defense, and also invested a big amount of money into her defense and HP. I gave Sorrow of Oiran to basically anymore who didn't have 60+ death resistance and was gonna stay out most of the time (AKA, not Rinnosuke, Reimu, Youmu, Kasen) Yeah, Minoriko will be a savior definitely.
[I actually don't think I had Kasen at that point, I think I got her on the 5th floor. Which floor was it where Alice's 2nd doll appeared?]
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Alice's second doll appears at 4th floor.
I think Nazrin should be useful, she can give rare drops, and she is required to recruit Byakuren later, and you'll definitely want Byakuren on your team.
Also I'm wandering why Kaguya and Remi and Sakuya attack you?
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Alice's second doll appears at 4th floor.
I think Nazrin should be useful, she can give rare drops, and she is required to recruit Byakuren later, and you'll definitely want Byakuren on your team.
Also I'm wandering why Kaguya and Remi and Sakuya attack you?
Kaguya fights you cause she's bored.
Remi/Sakuya fight you cause they felt like it.
This is at least what I remember when I was barely understanding the Japanese dialogue.
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Thing is with Nazrin is she'd only be good for that 20% drop increase, which wouldn't serve as much help. Her attacks are single target so there's no point using those when I'm fighting normal floor monsters, and bosses will be more about hard hitting attacks and debuffs, both of which...she doesn't really do.
Also Byakuren won't be needed, especially once I get the Diva subclass. I can see why, what with her getting buffs per turn and even being able to copy them, but that won't help if she rarely ever gets a turn.
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iirc Axel is planning a speedrun, so yeah, you would only do what's absolutely necessary to finish the game quickly. If nothing else, Byakuren would require grabbing 400 BP on a character that isn't particularly useful. (In a normal game she's fine but speedruns generally mean Really Underleveled where you -have- to have a really good strategy to win) That's not counting the time to go to all of Nazrin's events and then to all of Byakuren's scrolls and back in the heat maze to where Byakuren is, later.
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Well I did a bit of grinding as both an attempt to gather materials and fight Komachi. No way I can get Nitori before her unless I get really lucky with Item Drops, which so far I haven't been. Thankful Minoriko's recruitment doesn't use up the 3 leaves...But in the process of grinding, I decided to just walk around 3F to grab all the materials about. The battles did take a while, so maybe it'd be best to start with Floor 2 to grab the items there since you can probably 1 shot the enemies and get around the same amount of exp, then move onto Floor 3 to get the materials there once I can deal enough damage. In the process, this means I can change around some of the exploring parts to get items and combine them into one thing.
I think with this I can push the FOE fight a bit further back so I can make it faster, though I should still do it before Komachi due to the amount of EXP I gain, plus the Source of Magic is still really nice.
I should also note I'm an idiot and didn't get the 3F warp point near Komachi when I went through it the first time. I'll need to remind myself to get it in the notes.
One thing I forgot to address
From my exp playing this game, 60 death resistance is enough to prevent instant death, so Youmu doesn't need anymore death resistance.
It's not. I said it earlier that even with Youmu's base Death resistance, she can still be hit with a Death proc.
I think one problem I might have with this is how I put points into characters, mainly cause I'm doing things like putting level up points into DEF for both Reimu and Keine, mainly because I'm using them for buffing, but this is mainly because that's what I did when I normally play. Maybe for a speedrun it works, especially since that DEF/MND buff from Hakurei Barrier is really useful, and the ATK/MAG buffs from Keine help with Kasen rolling over a few bosses here. Though once I hit Hina, Kasen is gonna have to take a seat in the back for a bit.
Speaking of Keine, considering a number of changes to certain Skills only working when the character is on the frontline, I'm curious as to whether Historian's Teaching Whip was one of them. If not, this will help out quite immensely and make Keine stay in my party for....most of the game maybe.
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I cant remember what boss but I recall my youmu being death'd by some early game boss even AFTER i added an additional 15 dth resist or so.
Im lucky like that though. You know the "jinxed" trait in fallout? Thats me when it comes to game rng =p.
Getting back in the mood for 2 again though. Wasnt bored per say but dark souls 2 came out, and ftl's expansion, and, and, and.
I better finish at least one playthru of 2 before trails in the sky comes out on stream. I really wanna ng+ but must finish a normal game first qq.
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Got another quick question for those of us who are adept at japanese. I'm very close to the end of postgame and have just beaten
The Fallen One Culex and his Amazing Crystals
. I got an item from the battle that might be incredibly useful, but since I don't understand its special effects, I don't know who I should give it to:
(http://i.imgur.com/VSHrtup.png)
The +100 are death-resistance, you can tell from the stat-table. But what do the +20% something and -20% something mean?
Thank you in advance!
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It increases damage dealt by 20% and reduces damage taken by 20% (and gives +100 death resist as you already figured out).
The flavor text seems to say something about it being an accessory dropped by some kind of boss that gives +/- 5 damage dealt/taken.
Seems to originate from Final Fantasy.
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It's not. I said it earlier that even with Youmu's base Death resistance, she can still be hit with a Death proc.
You got really unlucky, either that or Koma's instant death chance during her boss fight are really high. 60 points on a resistance is honestly good enough to stop 80-95% of incoming ailments at least from my exp. There have been some instances where Reimu or someone with 60 paralysis resistance got paralyzed even with 60 paralysis resistance but it still didn't happen most of the time. Usually death has a low chance of happening compared to other ailments so 60 death resistance is a lot more effective than 60 paralysis resistance but... In your case, you got really unlucky.
I know 60 death resistance was enough to prevent instant death from Yuyuko and Ama no Murakumo
.
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Maybe, but you are right in that I don't need the Sorrow of Oiran for Youmu to resist it. I gave her a Light Crystal instead to give her a bit more HP, and the 20 DTH resist it has makes it perfect to withstand the long battle. I can throw the Sorrow of Oiran on Minoriko to make her have a better resist than 0.
Rinnosuke is also going to be key in this fight with Selective Formation Change. I managed to beat Komachi while using it, but I wasn't looking at his HP and he died at some point, so I need to make use of him healing. Kasen's also going to have to use Higekiri's Cursed Arm despite Komachi's resistance to Dark mainly just for the ATK and SPD debuffs it has. Diving Waltz of the Raijuu might have a MND debuff and the ability to inflict Paralysis, but it's no good if the Paralysis doesn't proc often enough and Komachi still hurts like a truck.
And with an Average Party Level of 8, I can take out Kaguya and Alice's Doll easily so I can get a nice chunk of EXP and loot. I haven't tried the 3F FOE yet but I'm going to in a moment.
Edit: Golem one shots everyone, so not possible right now.
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You got really unlucky, either that or Koma's instant death chance during her boss fight are really high. 60 points on a resistance is honestly good enough to stop 80-95% of incoming ailments at least from my exp. There have been some instances where Reimu or someone with 60 paralysis resistance got paralyzed even with 60 paralysis resistance but it still didn't happen most of the time. Usually death has a low chance of happening compared to other ailments so 60 death resistance is a lot more effective than 60 paralysis resistance but... In your case, you got really unlucky.
I know 60 death resistance was enough to prevent instant death from Yuyuko and Ama no Murakumo
.
So, that would mean that Wriggle would be very good at resisting instant death from the get go, and given that she's tanky from the start, she can be absurdly useful at dealing with status ailment dealing foes...
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Aside from the part where if a boss has even a moderately powerful magic nuke she goes down faster than a cartoon piano.
I never used her much in lot1 to begin with but slash of eternity WAS a good nuke for its sp fost and delay. But in lot2 it is meh tier at best, often doing 0s to bosses with merely good defense. Im not talkin tenshi or whatever, just above average.
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Was said attack tested as a Lv 1 attack or on all levels? Because maybe leveling said attack up could help in that, if it hasn't been tested that way...
Also, why couldn't they give Youmu a stronger version of the Cooling Down skill, instead of the Mental Concentration skill that she has now? I could even give it a name and everything(note that I would replace Mental Concentration with this skill):
Skill: Konpaku Dual Focus
Skill Point Cost : 18
Max Level: 1
Effect: When Youmu uses Concentrate, the MP recovered in this way is doubled.
It is stronger because unlike Cooling Down, you don't need to be at full HP for it to work, and it completely emulates the unique ability that she had in the first game, rather than her possessing a weakened version of it as she does now. And if recovering MP at that level is considered a bad thing, please do remember that there are moves that completely deplete MP, so Youmu can use this to restore her MP fast from such a blow, ready to fight again after a quick Concentrate(Guardian class sounds really good for this strategy, what with the skill that lets you set the timebar to 7000 instead of 5000). She could even be useful as a mana battery if you use her with the Magician class(Magic Transfer is 10 MP when first made available, which is trivial to one who burns that much MP on one attack, especially if she has this skill), so that everyone can refuel. My only concern would be her speed, but that can be fix with some tweaking at Voile and a Speed Boost Tome, so...
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Updated my notes up to Komachi's defeat.
http://pastebin.com/FAPgd028
Since I haven't started Wriggle's events, I probably should and see how well I do against Komachi afterwards, especially if I gain a level up from it. Otherwise I think I might have a solid strat for the fight, though I need to test some other things as well.
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So, that would mean that Wriggle would be very good at resisting instant death from the get go, and given that she's tanky from the start, she can be absurdly useful at dealing with status ailment dealing foes...
Yeah she can most certainly can.
And also, Youmu just has a weak early game. Her damage really comes out around mid-late game, and especially when she get boosts. Like, I noticed Youmu's damage coming out at around the Yuyuko battle (ironically).
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You got really unlucky, either that or Koma's instant death chance during her boss fight are really high. 60 points on a resistance is honestly good enough to stop 80-95% of incoming ailments at least from my exp. There have been some instances where Reimu or someone with 60 paralysis resistance got paralyzed even with 60 paralysis resistance but it still didn't happen most of the time. Usually death has a low chance of happening compared to other ailments so 60 death resistance is a lot more effective than 60 paralysis resistance but... In your case, you got really unlucky.
I know 60 death resistance was enough to prevent instant death from Yuyuko and Ama no Murakumo
.
I'm quite sure I remembered fighting one of the 4 extra area boss that just instant death my Suika who had 100 death resist at least.
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I'm quite sure I remembered fighting one of the 4 extra area boss that just instant death my Suika who had 100 death resist at least.
Considering that that was one of the extra bosses that did so, and I'm willing to believe that the extra boss's instant death attack is stronger at inflicting instant death than Komachi, who is an early game boss that is your first major exposure to said status ailment.
Also, a few things:
Wriggle: If I was to do anything about her, it would be giving her a skill that "adds poison to all attacks, if spell already inflicts poison, then it's effect is increased". I am aware that someone has a skill that does this already, but it's name makes it suitable only to Eirin(the current possessor of said skill "Pharmacist's Poison Mixing"), and not Wriggle. Perhaps a renaming of said skill would help in this regard? Also, I would replace Copious Vaccine(as her "Drug of Abuse" skill already reduces Poison damage towards allies) with Arm Twisting, as it would help her to inflict the Poison ailment more reliably(which is the whole point, really).
Kaguya: Firstly, why is "Robe of the Fire Rat" a skill? I mean, why would it be a bad thing to keep in spellcard form, like this...
Robe of the Fire Rat - Patient Mind
Fire Magic Attack spell
Targets all enemies
MP Cost: 6
Post Gauge use: 34%
Special Effect: Gives Kaguya a defensive version of the "Boost" status, thereby negating a portion of the next attack that would deal damage to her. This effect can be increased by leveling up the spell, making the spell into a sort of "instant shielding" against normally difficult to survive attacks, and while still dealing damage herself.
Additionally, since Kaguya has three spaces(Counting the removal of Robe of the Fire Rat from the skill section), I would add "Maintenance" and "Arm Twisting", at minimum. The former skill following the theme of "rare item collecter", as it will let her make the most of whatever she's equipped with(not to mention that she can a very slow leveling rate, so it's not as though it would break the game wide open if she had it), and the latter is for the fact that "Nation of the Noble Moon" does not cover elemental affinities. Of course, I could think of this skill instead of Arm Twisting...
Skill: Red Stone of Aja (yes, she actually does have a card based on this very stone)
Skill Point Cost: 5
Max Level: 2
As long as Kaguya is on the front line, all elemental damage dealt to enemies is increased somewhat.(Essentially the equal and opposite of Eiki's "Cleansed Crystal Mirror" skill)
Would that be better?
Mokou: I have said it once, and I will say it again. Give this girl "Arm Twisting", damn it! There are a lot of foes that resist Fire, and "Arm Twisting" is the one skill that would help in dealing with that problem.
Mystia: Seeing as one of her powers in canon is "control over winged birds and insects", I see no reason why Mystia shouldn't have a skill that lets her do more damage to Flying type enemies. Also, Beat Down sounds like a good thing to have.
...sorry for my rant, everyone. I just wanted to let all that out of my head. If it's too much, please tell me, and I'll stop.
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Kaguya: Firstly, why is "Robe of the Fire Rat" a skill? I mean, why would it be a bad thing to keep in spellcard form, like this...
Robe of the Fire Rat - Patient Mind
Fire Magic Attack spell
Targets all enemies
MP Cost: 6
Post Gauge use: 34%
Special Effect: Gives Kaguya a defensive version of the "Boost" status, thereby negating a portion of the next attack that would deal damage to her. This effect can be increased by leveling up the spell, making the spell into a sort of "instant shielding" against normally difficult to survive attacks, and while still dealing damage herself.
Additionally, since Kaguya has three spaces(Counting the removal of Robe of the Fire Rat from the skill section), I would add "Maintenance" and "Arm Twisting", at minimum. The former skill following the theme of "rare item collecter", as it will let her make the most of whatever she's equipped with(not to mention that she can a very slow leveling rate, so it's not as though it would break the game wide open if she had it), and the latter is for the fact that "Nation of the Noble Moon" does not cover elemental affinities. Of course, I could think of this skill instead of Arm Twisting...
Skill: Red Stone of Aja (yes, she actually does have a card based on this very stone)
Skill Point Cost: 5
Max Level: 2
As long as Kaguya is on the front line, all elemental damage dealt to enemies is increased somewhat.(Essentially the equal and opposite of Eiki's "Cleansed Crystal Mirror" skill)
Would that be better?
Mokou: I have said it once, and I will say it again. Give this girl "Arm Twisting", damn it! There are a lot of foes that resist Fire, and "Arm Twisting" is the one skill that would help in dealing with that problem.
Mystia: Seeing as one of her powers in canon is "control over winged birds and insects", I see no reason why Mystia shouldn't have a skill that lets her do more damage to Flying type enemies. Also, Beat Down sounds like a good thing to have.
...sorry for my rant, everyone. I just wanted to let all that out of my head. If it's too much, please tell me, and I'll stop.
You really like the skill arm twisting hehehe.
In all honestly, Maintenance would probably make Kaguya OP. Considering Kaguya already has one of the high MAG and MND growths in the game, Maintenance (although renamed Rare Item Collector) would be... broken on her. You also have to consider that Kaguya has the best overall elemental resistances in the game (every element except physical is over 100) and giving her maintenance... oh my god. Nitori is already very good with maintenance, becoming a bulky speedy attacker nuke thingy, and putting maintenance on Kaguya would just... break her, I swear. With the right items she would have EVEN HIGHER elemental resistances, sky high Magic and Mind and MP, moderate speed, HP and Defense, and just so strong. Plus if you gave Robe of the Fire Rat and Stone of Aja along with "Rare Item Collector" and Arm Twisting, She would just be the best mage in the game hands down. Mystic, Spirit, Nature, Fire attacks, ignoring 90% of Mind, ignoring some elemental resistances, quick back seat recovery, and "rare item collector", that's just broken. Kaguya is honestly fine the way she is. She's already quite strong now. (Kaguya may be my fav Touhou, but I don't want her broken.)
Arm Twisting would probably be a good idea for Mokou, that really would fix her prob.
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You want to add arm-twisting to Kaguya's existing ability to basically ignore defense? So, in other words, she'd have entirely nigh-irresistible attacks. That's just silly :P Maintennance would also make her OP, yes. The characters with it have pretty meh stats and become amazing as it is, already.
I don't use Kaguya so I don't -know- how good she is, but it seems like once you can overcome her mp barrier she'd already be solid...
Basically what I'm getting at is, suggesting improvements that make characters much better, is out of place if the character is already good. The suggestions for Wriggle and Mystia are less out of place though, yeah. Arm-twisting doesn't sound very character fitting for Wriggle, but it'd make sense on Mokou... although Mokou already has a pretty amazing skillset and several things to help her damage, and she does possess a WND spell with cool offense debuffs (albiet it's probably not that good offensively on bosses; not that I've ever built her offensively because she's a godly tank)
Honestly, even with arm-twisting, if a boss resists fire it just wouldn't be worth using Mokou as a nuker in the first place, so it'd be a moot addition. On Marisa it matters more because A.She has no purpose but damage, and B.Master Spark is silly (and she doesn't even have a single other element in her arsenal, like Mokou's wind spell that can be used for randoms at the least in an offense build) and Kogasa's terror infliction is already pretty insignificant even -with- armtwisting, so it really needs it to not be totally pointless. Utsuho is pretty meh so arm-twisting helps her not be garbage in half the battles even for people who do attempt using her. Wriggle is mono-nature and relies on poison even still, so it'd be a good idea on her, but it doesn't make much sense in-character.
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You want to add arm-twisting to Kaguya's existing ability to basically ignore defense? So, in other words, she'd have entirely nigh-irresistible attacks. That's just silly :P Maintennance would also make her OP, yes. The characters with it have pretty meh stats and become amazing as it is, already.
I don't use Kaguya so I don't -know- how good she is, but it seems like once you can overcome her mp barrier she'd already be solid...
Yeah, Kaguya is very good at what she does. I find her a lot more useful than Patchy (they have the same leveling difficulty too) She's faster, isn't as frail, and seemingly hits harder than Patchy thanks to her ignore 90% of mind passive. Like, in every situation I could justify using Patchy, I could also justify using Kaguya (or someone else), and she would do better at it. In all honestly, Patchy is just too dang crippled. Bad HP, bad Defense, Bad physical resistance, horrible speed, horrible ailment resistance, it's just terrible. Sure she has the highest MAG growth and 2nd highest MND growth, she can still take damage from high Mag attacks and get paralyzed, poisoned, etc.
Yuugi is almost a physical equivilent of Patchy, except she isn't frail. Lowest MND growth (I think), but her resistances are fine, she has the highest DEF growth and nice HP, and 2nd highest ATK growth (for some reason), and ok ailment resistance. I can justify using her more because at least her terrible MND is easier to handle than Patchy's terrible DEF and PHY resistance. Plus she's faster, making her easier to do her thing and switch her out. Also the ability to apply heavy/paralysis and a super physical nuke.
I gave Patchy the subclass magician and I have yet to effectively use her that way, that may be due to how paranoid I am of using her. She probably is a good magician, but I'm just too scared to use her. Halp. D:
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Yeah, Kaguya is very good at what she does. I find her a lot more useful than Patchy (they have the same leveling difficulty too) She's faster, isn't as frail, and seemingly hits harder than Patchy thanks to her ignore 90% of mind passive. Like, in every situation I could justify using Patchy, I could also justify using Kaguya (or someone else), and she would do better at it. In all honestly, Patchy is just too dang crippled. Bad HP, bad Defense, Bad physical resistance, horrible speed, horrible ailment resistance, it's just terrible. Sure she has the highest MAG growth and 2nd highest MND growth, she can still take damage from high Mag attacks and get paralyzed, poisoned, etc.
Yuugi is almost a physical equivilent of Patchy, except she isn't frail. Lowest MND growth (I think), but her resistances are fine, she has the highest DEF growth and nice HP, and 2nd highest ATK growth (for some reason), and ok ailment resistance. I can justify using her more because at least her terrible MND is easier to handle than Patchy's terrible DEF and PHY resistance. Plus she's faster, making her easier to do her thing and switch her out. Also the ability to apply heavy/paralysis and a super physical nuke.
I gave Patchy the subclass magician and I have yet to effectively use her that way, that may be due to how paranoid I am of using her. She probably is a good magician, but I'm just too scared to use her. Halp. D:
Well, this is my Pache after I beat the game.:V
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Yeah, Kaguya is very good at what she does. I find her a lot more useful than Patchy (they have the same leveling difficulty too) She's faster, isn't as frail, and seemingly hits harder than Patchy thanks to her ignore 90% of mind passive. Like, in every situation I could justify using Patchy, I could also justify using Kaguya (or someone else), and she would do better at it. In all honestly, Patchy is just too dang crippled. Bad HP, bad Defense, Bad physical resistance, horrible speed, horrible ailment resistance, it's just terrible. Sure she has the highest MAG growth and 2nd highest MND growth, she can still take damage from high Mag attacks and get paralyzed, poisoned, etc.
Yuugi is almost a physical equivilent of Patchy, except she isn't frail. Lowest MND growth (I think), but her resistances are fine, she has the highest DEF growth and nice HP, and 2nd highest ATK growth (for some reason), and ok ailment resistance. I can justify using her more because at least her terrible MND is easier to handle than Patchy's terrible DEF and PHY resistance. Plus she's faster, making her easier to do her thing and switch her out. Also the ability to apply heavy/paralysis and a super physical nuke.
I gave Patchy the subclass magician and I have yet to effectively use her that way, that may be due to how paranoid I am of using her. She probably is a good magician, but I'm just too scared to use her. Halp. D:
Actually it is Momiji that has the highest def growth, beating Yuugi by 0.4.
The lowest mind belong to Chen at 3.4, followed by Flandre and Komachi at 4. Yuugi is 4.8.
Maybe make Patchy a transcendent? Don't think Patchy needs magician class because she also has no MP problems and too slow to really utilize the spellcards it provides.
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Patchy in lot1 was one of my fave characters, and her stats were pretty much exactly the same.
I was very eager to get her in lot2, but when i did... I was like damn she sucks! As ive said numerous times, her low hp and def in lot2 is far more crippling in 2 than 1 because nearly every boss in lot2 is capable of hitting the back character for decent physical damage. I don mean row attacks, but flat out true multi targets which were rare as fuu in lot1... Making patchy ALWAYS gambling for survival.
Thats not all though, her actual damage is sub par too. Yes her magic is still high, but the formulas on her attacks seem pretty gimp. Ive had her deal 0s to some bosses on too many occasions, when in lot1 her silent selene was often one of the spells you would expect to do good damage to enemies with where eveyone else was doing 0s... Even royal flare which didnt have a piercing formula could simply power thru enemy defenses quite well thru sheer force. For example those helbermeres or wtf they were called took 0s from virtually everything but defense ignore attacks, megawatt cannon, master spark, ko in 3, slash of eternity, minoruke's leaf thing, silent selene and royal flare... Maybe a few i forgot, not many though. Aside from minoruke's leaf attack though, all those attacks listed were full bar high mp cost nukes. And while royal flare was a full bar nuke, its mp cost wasnt high, and it hit every enemy. And silent selene only ate half a bar.
Now she does 0s to enemies just as easily as your average attacker.
Of course there is the sdm passive argument. But im still dubious it can help that much, and it still wont solve her problem of being subject to fatal physical damage far more often.
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I was going to say if you use concentrate+nuke combo but seeing that Patchy can't survive out very long, being out on the field isn't viable and if she actually needs SDM bonus to be viable, something is wrong. I'm mostly using her now to get BP to get
Flandre
(although her event is missing despite me having 300 BP on each of the other SDM household and I thought have thought I was hunting FOEs to extinction...
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You might of missed one of the events on a previous floor. Someone had that issue once too.
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Actually it is Momiji that has the highest def growth, beating Yuugi by 0.4.
The lowest mind belong to Chen at 3.4, followed by Flandre and Komachi at 4. Yuugi is 4.8.
Maybe make Patchy a transcendent? Don't think Patchy needs magician class because she also has no MP problems and too slow to really utilize the spellcards it provides.
http://i.imgur.com/ypEabda.png
Patchy has the lowest, HP, ATK, DEF, and SPD growth...
Seriously, too many negatives. Her highest MAG growth and 2nd MND growth just cannot make up for her other bad stats. The extremes are just too unbalanced.
Transcendent is not a subclass for Patchy. Transcendent is meant for those well rounded characters (Kasen), and well... Patchy is far from well rounded. You don't take magician because you have mana problems, you take magician so that everyone doesn't run out of mana. Since Patchy has such a huge manapool, she can just spam mana to everyone else. Yeah, she is pretty slow, but maybe with the right support (cough Aya) she can used well maybe.
Also about the Flandre events, I had posted something about it before...
http://i.imgur.com/CbpNKSr.png (10th floor event)
http://i.imgur.com/HCcEHE8.png (11th floor event)
http://i.imgur.com/m7bBW9W.png (12th floor event)
This should be of some use to you.
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Actually i disagree. Transcendant looks like the best choice for patchy IMO. Magician... I dont know the game enough yet to determine for that. The theory that patchy has mp to spare is true, she would indeed be one o the best candidates for a magician yes. But Im assuming mp issues become a near non-issue late game like in lot1, but i could be wrong.
Now simply having the worst stats in 3 catagories doesnt mean transcendant is bad, plus attack doesnt even matter since she doesnt use it at all.
But if a character has 10 hp and 10 magic and 10 speed 10 def/mnd and they buff them all by 20%, they gain 10 useful stat points. Now patchy in comparison would have like 4 hp, 4 spd, 20 magic, 4 def, 20 mnd. Though her mnd and magic would be the only tats which seem to get a decent gain, they do so for twice as much, making it pretty even.
Furthermore, speed is an odd stat with decreasing returns, so patchy in fact would gain a MORE significant benefit to buffing her speed than other characters.
Sorcerer would look like a possible choice for her too but im not so sure if magical beating would work with concentration at all (or grand incantstion, whatever its called). Not to mention having her survive for many turns in the front is difficult.
However , her mag is sky high, and yet her damage seems undershelming already. If her spell formulas are truly bad, maybe the sorcerer ones are better? Plus maybe her regular "attack" command will own with her? I have no idea how good those powered up attack passives are. But if they are good at all, then it should be ridiculous on patchy.
Incidentally imma complain about it again. This game effing NEEDS to display the formulas for spells and attacks. I dont understand why game designers make these games tha demand their players to crunch numbers so much and hide the formulas that these numbers actually are USED for.
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http://i.imgur.com/ypEabda.png
That's odd. I have Momiji at 12.8 with the info from the touhou wiki. Is that erroneous? Where did you get your info from?
And the reason why I did not make Patchy a magician is the reason why I made Aya one.
Patchy would barely be able to take enough turns to refill a lot and that massive mags would be wasted especially considering that refill and transfer isn't based on any stats that I know of aside from speed.
That being said, Aya takes several turns before her party members, or even bosses do, letting me fill up on allies MP quickly when needed. Even if you aren't going to use her as a support, Aya tends to use MP ridiculously fast not because of the mana cost of her spellcards but because she takes so many turns and this passive, along with a chance to not use MP allows her to spam Peerless Wind God much more casually.
Related question: Can extra attack proc subclass spell cards?
Unrelated question: Aside from boss level restriction and stat-up restriction, what is different about hard mode compare to normal?
Edit: Flandre:Yeah it seems I forgot to snag the f12 event that was hiding behind the barrier. Thanks. Also used Patchy in the fight vs Flandre. Concentration + Princess Undine took a massive 30% of her HP! Unfortunate I was stupid and forgot to put a first aid kit on Patchy and she died at 2/3 of the fight who would have survived with it.
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Actually i disagree. Transcendant looks like the best choice for patchy IMO. Magician... I dont know the game enough yet to determine for that. The theory that patchy has mp to spare is true, she would indeed be one o the best candidates for a magician yes. But Im assuming mp issues become a near non-issue late game like in lot1, but i could be wrong.
Now simply having the worst stats in 3 catagories doesnt mean transcendant is bad, plus attack doesnt even matter since she doesnt use it at all.
But if a character has 10 hp and 10 magic and 10 speed 10 def/mnd and they buff them all by 20%, they gain 10 useful stat points. Now patchy in comparison would have like 4 hp, 4 spd, 20 magic, 4 def, 20 mnd. Though her mnd and magic would be the only tats which seem to get a decent gain, they do so for twice as much, making it pretty even.
Furthermore, speed is an odd stat with decreasing returns, so patchy in fact would gain a MORE significant benefit to buffing her speed than other characters.
Incidentally imma complain about it again. This game effing NEEDS to display the formulas for spells and attacks. I dont understand why game designers make these games tha demand their players to crunch numbers so much and hide the formulas that these numbers actually are USED for.
I know ATK doesn't matter, which is why I was actually gonna omit it, but decided to put it back in the post.
From what I know, Transcendent increases every stat growth (except ACC, EVA, etc) by 0.3 or 30%.
Now the growth rate formula would be Lvl 1 Stat + (Growth Rate x Level) x [ 1 + Subclass Stat Growth Increase]
I don't know the speed formula though.
When doing this, be sure not to count level 1. For example, if you calculate [Insert Character's] HP stat at level 39, for level you put 38.
These are Patchy's Level 1 stats
HP - 52
MP - 28
ATK - 14
DEF - 16
MAG - 86
MND - 87
SPD - 101
Here are her level 100 stats
HP - 646
MP - 40
ATK - 212
DEF - 254
MAG - 1689
MND - 1730
SPD - [635.6 (I know that's wrong)]
With Transcendent
HP - 836
ATK - 275.6
DEF - 330
MAG - 2196
MND - 2249
SPD - [826 (Again, Help me)]
I guess Transcendent would be good on Patchy.
Yeah, the game SERIOUSLY needs to display the formulas. I think everyone here agrees on that. Like, in League of Legends they display the parameter formulas for skills and stuff, and I'm sure other RPGs do the same. (Can't think of one atm, kind of brain farting) It would really be a big help, definitely. If we had it it could be easier to justify [insert person] with this subclass and such.
@ Dodging_Rain I got it from the Japanese Touhou Labyrinth Wiki.
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Lot1 showed you skill formulas (albeit after special disk, though the jpn wiki had that data before the special disk, and lot2's jpn wiki does not).
Nearly every rouge-like game does, often in a "6D6" format or whatever, elsword will say "skill does 4500% damage", etc.
Many many games give you the exact figures of damage for the spells/skills. Though it is a fairly recent trend (kinda became semi-standard since MMOs became a thing). That said regardless of it bein a standard or not games tended not to be pro make the user number crunch (which i actually like) until after that same era of time. Seeing some games adopt PART of that new trend drives me nuts.
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Speedrunning the game was best in the version with the bugged Unify function where you gained infinite levelup bonuses and skill points B)
Figure I'd come back to this.
Which version was this? If it was 1.140 then...ooh boy. That will make for some interesting shenanigans.
And how did it work specifically?
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I never did it myself but iirc you would simply level down your level'd up characters and they would keep their level ip bonus stat of your choice thing, and you could double them up by leveling up again, then triple by down leveling to 1 and leveling up again etc.
Personally it was such a game breaking exploit i dont see the purpose of abusing it for a speed run over straight up cheat engine cheating =/.
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Simply put, Glitches and Exploits are fair game, but things like Cheat Engine are banned.
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Yeah i understand but that was a particularly nasty glitch, one that was fixed in a future version. How is that any different than playing an early build with only 3 floors and saying you beat the whole game after just 3 floors cuz thats all that version had?
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Difference is in the patch version. If I were to do a speedrun on an early build that only had 3 floors, then the speedrun would only apply to that patch version. So if I were to do a run on on 1.203, and then one on 1.40, they would be 2 completely separate runs due to how different they are, both in terms of content and even bugs/glitches.
Edit: Looking over a number of the bestiary entries for mandatory bosses, and I laugh at how Iku is Human, Youkai, Aquatic, and Flyer. I can target 3 of those with skills. It's kinda funny.
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You really like the skill arm twisting hehehe.
In all honestly, Maintenance would probably make Kaguya OP. Considering Kaguya already has one of the high MAG and MND growths in the game, Maintenance (although renamed Rare Item Collector) would be... broken on her. You also have to consider that Kaguya has the best overall elemental resistances in the game (every element except physical is over 100) and giving her maintenance... oh my god. Nitori is already very good with maintenance, becoming a bulky speedy attacker nuke thingy, and putting maintenance on Kaguya would just... break her, I swear. With the right items she would have EVEN HIGHER elemental resistances, sky high Magic and Mind and MP, moderate speed, HP and Defense, and just so strong. Plus if you gave Robe of the Fire Rat and Stone of Aja along with "Rare Item Collector" and Arm Twisting, She would just be the best mage in the game hands down. Mystic, Spirit, Nature, Fire attacks, ignoring 90% of Mind, ignoring some elemental resistances, quick back seat recovery, and "rare item collector", that's just broken. Kaguya is honestly fine the way she is. She's already quite strong now. (Kaguya may be my fav Touhou, but I don't want her broken.)
Okay, let's start.
1. I wanted to replace Robe of the Fire as a skill with Red Stone of Aja, mainly so that she would give a minor boost to everyone while in battle(it's not supposed to be as strong a boost as what the mono-element boosting skills(Magic Training, Blazing, etc.) would offer).
And yes, I actually do like Arm Twisting, considering that it's one of the better skills in the game. If it's considered broken on Kaguya, then maybe...
Related question: Does Easygoing increase how much you heal while in reserve? Because I could see it fitting Kaguya somewhat, if only thematically...
Also, do you think that my "Robe of the Fire Rat" as a spell was OP? I would like to know your thoughts on that.
You want to add arm-twisting to Kaguya's existing ability to basically ignore defense? So, in other words, she'd have entirely nigh-irresistible attacks. That's just silly :P Maintennance would also make her OP, yes. The characters with it have pretty meh stats and become amazing as it is, already.
2. I honestly wasn't aware of how Powerful said skill was, actually. I simply saw the skill as a sort of a "this skill fits Kaguya's theme of using rare items, so it's good" thing.
Basically what I'm getting at is, suggesting improvements that make characters much better, is out of place if the character is already good. The suggestions for Wriggle and Mystia are less out of place though, yeah. Arm-twisting doesn't sound very character fitting for Wriggle, but it'd make sense on Mokou... although Mokou already has a pretty amazing skillset and several things to help her damage, and she does possess a WND spell with cool offense debuffs (albiet it's probably not that good offensively on bosses; not that I've ever built her offensively because she's a godly tank)
Honestly, even with arm-twisting, if a boss resists fire it just wouldn't be worth using Mokou as a nuker in the first place, so it'd be a moot addition. On Marisa it matters more because A.She has no purpose but damage, and B.Master Spark is silly (and she doesn't even have a single other element in her arsenal, like Mokou's wind spell that can be used for randoms at the least in an offense build) and Kogasa's terror infliction is already pretty insignificant even -with- armtwisting, so it really needs it to not be totally pointless. Utsuho is pretty meh so arm-twisting helps her not be garbage in half the battles even for people who do attempt using her. Wriggle is mono-nature and relies on poison even still, so it'd be a good idea on her, but it doesn't make much sense in-character.
3. Serela, the sheer fact that fire element is resisted as often as it is is the reason for it, not to mention the fact that the side effect of her wind spell(ATK and MAG debuffs) would be easier to land with said skill, so it helps a bit as a skill that makes her able to try to deal damage while being the tank that she is.
4. Unrelated to my posts, but related to the "Patchouli is weak as crap" argument: did you guys test her spell when they were at maximum level, or just at starting levels? I know that it's a stupid question, but it would be nice to clear that up before continuing the debate, so that it's not a factor in all this.
5. Also, as for Wriggle, I honestly couldn't figure out anything that that would help her in inflicting poison, other than my suggestion of a skill that "would inflict Poison with all her attacks and increase the strength of the Poison for those attack that already do", so it was a matter of mechanics more than flavor.
6. I know that I think that I've said this before in some way, but has anyone tested the Sorcerer subclass on Sanae? Given it's perk of boosting row attacks, I could see it helping her actually do some form of damage with her CLD element spell, the spells in there give her access to WND and MYS as attack elements(which is strangely appropriate, given that this is Sanae that we're talking about), and the stat boosts that the subclass gives can only help her, regardless of her build(as if she has more than one).
Also, as a related comment on her, would giving Sanae the "Grand Incantation" skill make her OP? I know that it would fit her thematically, given that her power of miracles requires time and stuff like that for a stronger effect in canon, so this skill would kind of emulate that. The skill itself would make her attack spells viable for offensive purposes and give her healing spell a powerful boost(Although I still don't get why it can't cure Heavy. It should, in my opinion, since it isn't like it would make her OP or anything to be able to do so), so she can be seen for more than her "Miracle Fruit" spell. Just charge up and then cast. Not the same as the other healers, but good enough, yes?
That's all I got for now...
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The attack "Robe of the Fire Rat" wouldn't be OP on Kaguya, but a nice edition I guess. The point I was makin before is that "Rare Item Collector" and Arm Twisting would make her OP.
Also, there wasn't exactly an argument stating that Patchy was weak as crap (Only one person was really saying her skills were doing no damage), I was just pointing out how fragile she is. Just way too fragile, geez. I mean, it makes sense, but considering that Patchy was in a game like IaMP/SWRS makes me think that her defenses could at least be brought up a bit more ya know. I know that magicians tend to be frailer than the average human (and Patchy is anemic, has asthma, barely moves at all) but they could just give her a bit more reasonable defense at least. Or keep her defense as is and up her Physical resistance. That would help even more than buffing her defense. Ya know, just cover it up by saying "She's using defense magic".
Also, I don't think Grand Incarnation would make Sanae OP. Would buff her offensive potential. Reimu has this skill and well... I never really made us of it cause I only use her as a support. So why not the other Miko have this skill too?
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Sanae doesn't really have any business being in an offense build in the first place IMO, it's okay for randoms but miracle fruits is glorious (probably a better use of her turn even in randoms than attacking, unless she's slow) and her heal skill is pretty good with it's additional effects.
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Also, there wasn't exactly an argument stating that Patchy was weak as crap (Only one person was really saying her skills were doing no damage), I was just pointing out how fragile she is. Just way too fragile, geez. I mean, it makes sense, but considering that Patchy was in a game like IaMP/SWRS makes me think that her defenses could at least be brought up a bit more ya know. I know that magicians tend to be frailer than the average human (and Patchy is anemic, has asthma, barely moves at all) but they could just give her a bit more reasonable defense at least. Or keep her defense as is and up her Physical resistance. That would help even more than buffing her defense. Ya know, just cover it up by saying "She's using defense magic".
Or they could at least leave her Physical Resist at 100, so that it's neutral.
Also, they could make it so that her "Passive Philosopher Stone" skill can work like this:
Skill Point Cost: 9
Max Level: 3
Effect: Whenever Patchouli uses a spell with an element, if an enemy attacks her with the same element as the one she used before, the damage received will be reduced by (SLv * 30)%. This effect can apply to up to 3 different elements at the same time, with the next newest element overwriting the oldest one in turn.
Not enough? Too much? Tell me what you think...
Sanae doesn't really have any business being in an offense build in the first place IMO, it's okay for randoms but miracle fruits is glorious (probably a better use of her turn even in randoms than attacking, unless she's slow) and her heal skill is pretty good with it's additional effects.
And this is why I want to add "Grand Incantation", so that she doesn't need to be in an offensive build to become better at healing, or be able to do something in a fight. And advising towards the use of the Sorcerer subclass doesn't hurt a defensive build at all. In fact, it could be said that it's because "Miracle Fruit" is so good that she can make use of the Sorcerer subclass: because you don't need to improve it outside of leveling it up, so you have options in what you want her to do. And I would wager that she could hit hard enough to justify using the subclass's skills, given that the Wiki states that her "Moses's Miracle" CLD spell is good against high MND enemies, and good CLD element spells are hard to come by in the first place.
And as before, it confuses me as to why Sanae can't cure Heavy with her "Yasaka's Divine Wind" spell. It's like they needed to do so just to make her heal different from the others in that way, when there really is no point in doing so. Really, is it asking a lot to give her that one little thing?
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About stats, with growth values from the character's status screen in-game.
The chart uses 1/10th of that value.
Base
HP = (Lv+6)*(Baseline Value)/10 + 10
ATK, MAG, DEF, MND = (Lv+4)*(Baseline Value)/10 + 4
SPD = (Lv+10)*(Baseline Value)/320
All rounded down,
Final
Base * ( 1+ (Equipment bonuses) + 0.03*(Lv-up bonuses) + 0.02*(Library bonuses) )
Rounded down.
SPD gets another 100 added to final value.
Since subclass bonuses add to growth value, percentage-wise, weaker stats benefit more from them.
The bonus itself doesn't mean anything more than "0.3*(1+bonuses) additional points per level".
Momiji, as of version 1.203, has higher DEF than Yuugi.
The game explicitly states the values, so you should check them before trying to reference any wiki. If you do have the game.
About useless skills being still there :
Of course, game developers don't plan on making useless skills, unless it is some kind of horrible joke.
It's just that, they become useless while the developer adds more to the game.
Also, it's not like there will be any benefits from removing skills, even if it is useless. (Except for the translators)
Something about this thread reminds me of mafia, for some odd reason.
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OK, so yesterday I finally thought it was a good time to do a 3 hour grinding, so... After that, I managed to finally beat
The Guardian of the Great Crystals, which was the last extra boss(for me)
. I was a little overleveled. If I wasn't, this would have probably been a tough fight. So after that, I fought the Stronger version of the Sword of Heaven's Gathering Clouds/Ame-no-Murakumo, which you can't damage before it gets its first turn, in which it levels up to level 170. lol. I didn't grind between my fight with that Guardian, and I beat the sword in my first try(which may mean that I was still overleveled(?)). Even though the sword has a lot(if not all) of the attacks of the Extra bosses, I believe it's not as menacing as the Extra bosses themselves. The strategy is easy to figure out, in my opinion. So it wasn't that hard of a fight... If you don't try it at level 100, that is.
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Having trouble figuring out how to beat Maribel ver 2. Specifically the third add. The wiki says, "and the replacement for Staring Igmaruji is effectively immune to non-defense ignoring attacks, unless it is charging for Rankain." But I'm not really sure what it means by charging for Rankain. It's used a skill called Rankain, that buffs MAG + MND. I don't have anyone that ignores defense completely, and none of my skills are touching him. I would rather not have to swap in a character I'm not using. Any advice?
Never mind, got it.
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OK, so yesterday I finally thought it was a good time to do a 3 hour grinding, so... After that, I managed to finally beat The Guardian of the Great Crystals, which was the last extra boss(for me)
. I was a little overleveled. If I wasn't, this would have probably been a tough fight. So after that, I fought the Stronger version of the Sword of Heaven's Gathering Clouds/Ame-no-Murakumo, which you can't damage before it gets its first turn, in which it levels up to level 170. lol. I didn't grind between my fight with that Guardian, and I beat the sword in my first try(which may mean that I was still overleveled(?)). Even though the sword has a lot(if not all) of the attacks of the Extra bosses, I believe it's not as menacing as the Extra bosses themselves. The strategy is easy to figure out, in my opinion. So it wasn't that hard of a fight... If you don't try it at level 100, that is.
Mind posting your party level? Mine was around 200 and there are people who are more overleveled than me.
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Party level was just a little above 200. What matters most is skill level, I believe. Which was 210 on me. I will try to post a video on YT where I try beating him at challenge level...
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About stats, with growth values from the character's status screen in-game.
The chart uses 1/10th of that value.
Base
HP = (Lv+6)*(Baseline Value)/10 + 10
ATK, MAG, DEF, MND = (Lv+4)*(Baseline Value)/10 + 4
SPD = (Lv+10)*(Baseline Value)/320
All rounded down,
Final
Base * ( 1+ (Equipment bonuses) + 0.03*(Lv-up bonuses) + 0.02*(Library bonuses) )
Rounded down.
SPD gets another 100 added to final value.
Since subclass bonuses add to growth value, percentage-wise, weaker stats benefit more from them.
The bonus itself doesn't mean anything more than "0.3*(1+bonuses) additional points per level".
Momiji, as of version 1.203, has higher DEF than Yuugi.
The game explicitly states the values, so you should check them before trying to reference any wiki. If you do have the game.
Thanks for the math, but since when did the game explicitly state the values? Where in the game does it say this? Where is the more accurate info?
The wiki is behind I guess, those parameters show growth for 1.150, but not 1.203, so I assumed there wasn't a change that affect of growth rates between those patches.
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those figures were always known, and are more or less the same as lot1, and you can just figure them out by looking at your stats grow with each level and skill level and such.
spell formulas are not so simple to figure out by looking because you don't know enemy defenses either. That and there is a + or - 10% factor added to every hit as well.
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If you want to check the growth rates, open the menu, select ステータス確認, then press X twice.
It will show the growth rate, factoring in equipment, subclasses, passive skills, and stat-boosting orbs, and all those things.
The screen also shows Lv-up bonus distribution, number of orbs used, battle points, leftover Lv-up bonus and skill points, and number of Training Manuals used.
The Lv-Up bonus gave 4% for each point before, but it was changed to 3% with patch 1.200 .
Is there an infinite amount of Tome of Reincarnations in this game?
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And as before, it confuses me as to why Sanae can't cure Heavy with her "Yasaka's Divine Wind" spell. It's like they needed to do so just to make her heal different from the others in that way, when there really is no point in doing so. Really, is it asking a lot to give her that one little thing?
IIRC I think it actually did heal Heavy in my experience, but I could be misremembering. Don't take my word on whether it heals it or not too hard, but I think it did? That's something that very easily could have been missed in wiki updating.
Also, Miracle Fruits being so good is more of an encouragement in lines of "Sanae should be defensive so she doesn't fall over while casting Miracle Fruits" and that she's more offensively effective using Miracle Fruits than she is in actually trying to use damaging spells herself. Boosting an effective attacker's power, durability, and speed is much more useful than trying to make Sanae cover buffing -and- attacking, which will only make her okay-ish at both instead of great at one.
Thanks for the math, but since when did the game explicitly state the values? Where in the game does it say this? Where is the more accurate info?
The wiki is behind I guess, those parameters show growth for 1.150, but not 1.203, so I assumed there wasn't a change that affect of growth rates between those patches.
The values are in the Various Info or whatever section of your character's stats menu, where you can see what their battle points value is and stuff. I haven't actually played in awhile or I'd give more explicit directions to it. Also, the reason it's different in 1.203 is that character's stat values themselves had some rebalancing; Cirno has a lot more def, for example.
cut by sungho with good directions
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IIRC I think it actually did heal Heavy in my experience, but I could be misremembering. Don't take my word on whether it heals it or not too hard, but I think it did? That's something that very easily could have been missed in wiki updating.
Also, Miracle Fruits being so good is more of an encouragement in lines of "Sanae should be defensive so she doesn't fall over while casting Miracle Fruits" and that she's more offensively effective using Miracle Fruits than she is in actually trying to use damaging spells herself. Boosting an effective attacker's power, durability, and speed is much more useful than trying to make Sanae cover buffing -and- attacking, which will only make her okay-ish at both instead of great at one.
Okay, I'll respond to this as follows...
1. So, it's currently unknown as to whether or not it cures Heavy, then. That's rather curious.
2. So, what about her healing spell? Is it considered a "just there" sort of spell, or is it actually useful to use? A defensive build would serve well for a healer as much as for a buffer, Serela.
Besides that, if anything, that would make "Grand Incantation" even more valuable to her, as with a defensive build, she can survive a few stray hits while using Concentrate, then casting a boosted heal or attack, so she can do something when she's not buffing up people with "Miracle Fruit".
Related question, does using a spell that does no damage or healing, like Great Hakurei Border, cause the Boost from "Great Incantation" to vanish? Because, if not, then it would be possible to combine the two powers and really have an effect on Sanae's other spells.
I'm not saying that Sanae should be built as an attacker, defensive build is fine. I'm just saying that Sorcerer is something that won't interfere with a defensive build statwise(More Magic, Mind, MP and TP are always good for a mage, regardless of her build, and the skills can somewhat make up for the lack of attack strength in her spells, particularly her CLD spell), and the spells within would give options in the rare case that Sanae doesn't need to buff.
Also, if her buff is so good, would it be a bad idea for her to buff herself, so that she can act quicker, and survive tougher hits? I would think that strengthening the buffer with their own buff would make sense, right?
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If you want to check the growth rates, open the menu, select ステータス確認, then press X twice.
It will show the growth rate, factoring in equipment, subclasses, passive skills, and stat-boosting orbs, and all those things.
The screen also shows Lv-up bonus distribution, number of orbs used, battle points, leftover Lv-up bonus and skill points, and number of Training Manuals used.
The Lv-Up bonus gave 4% for each point before, but it was changed to 3% with patch 1.200 .
Is there an infinite amount of Tome of Reincarnations in this game?
Oh, I know about that page. So where on that page does it show growth rates? All I see is baseline value, Lvl bonus/skill points, etc. Unless baseline value has to do with the growth rate? Sorry I'm blind.
Also, I remember hearing from someone that Tomes of Reincarnation were finite.
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1. So, it's currently unknown as to whether or not it cures Heavy, then. That's rather curious.
Actually it does, I just tested it twice. [/quote]
2. So, what about her healing spell? Is it considered a "just there" sort of spell, or is it actually useful to use? A defensive build would serve well for a healer as much as for a buffer, Serela.
It seems to be a buffed up Meiling Healer and will heal up nicely on anyone that isn't named Komachi or Remilia though the delay is a little prohibiting.
Besides that, if anything, that would make "Grand Incantation" even more valuable to her, as with a defensive build, she can survive a few stray hits while using Concentrate, then casting a boosted heal or attack, so she can do something when she's not buffing up people with "Miracle Fruit".
Related question, does using a spell that does no damage or healing, like Great Hakurei Border, cause the Boost from "Great Incantation" to vanish? Because, if not, then it would be possible to combine the two powers and really have an effect on Sanae's other spells.
Great incantation will be triggered on any spellcards including those that heal or has no numerical damage value. From my experiments, only healing and damage spells are boosted. Buffs, Mp restore (magician), and other effect doesn't seem to be affected.
I'm not saying that Sanae should be built as an attacker, defensive build is fine. I'm just saying that Sorcerer is something that won't interfere with a defensive build statwise(More Magic, Mind, MP and TP are always good for a mage, regardless of her build, and the skills can somewhat make up for the lack of attack strength in her spells, particularly her CLD spell), and the spells within would give options in the rare case that Sanae doesn't need to buff.
Also, if her buff is so good, would it be a bad idea for her to buff herself, so that she can act quicker, and survive tougher hits? I would think that strengthening the buffer with their own buff would make sense, right?
Considering that a fully leveled Miracle Fruit buffs 42% to all stats (48% with enhancer), it's not a bad idea especially if you play her as a strategist (or have Strategist Byakuren nearby). Her survivability seems to be stronger than in the previous game and beats out Reimu slightly statwise though her leveling growth is somewhat slower than the red-white so a full defensive Sanae can be respectively durable.
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Although it is a bit weird, Baseline Value is the growth rate.
It was called Growth Value in older versions, from the descriptions of main equipments.
But it was all changed to Baseline Value since people could ask questions like "is it more beneficial if the character equips this before leveling up?" .
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Actually it does, I just tested it twice.
Does it cure it from the get go? Or do you have to level it up to get it to do so?
It seems to be a buffed up Meiling Healer and will heal up nicely on anyone that isn't named Komachi or Remilia though the delay is a little prohibiting.
Well, considering that the delay for the healing spell was a problem in the first game, it's no surprise that it's still a problem now.
Great incantation will be triggered on any spellcards including those that heal or has no numerical damage value. From my experiments, only healing and damage spells are boosted. Buffs, Mp restore (magician), and other effect doesn't seem to be affected.
So, the Boost effect is expended regardless of the spell used. That's a pity.
Considering that a fully leveled Miracle Fruit buffs 42% to all stats (48% with enhancer), it's not a bad idea especially if you play her as a strategist (or have Strategist Byakuren nearby). Her survivability seems to be stronger than in the previous game and beats out Reimu slightly statwise though her leveling growth is somewhat slower than the red-white so a full defensive Sanae can be respectively durable.
Strategist, hm? Interesting thought, although Sanae being said class means that she has to stay out in the front line for the whole fight to maximize the potential of said skills...
Personally, as I have said before about her, I see Sanae as a "Jill of All Trades" sort of character(which actually makes sense, considering that her "cast herd" skill, "Grateful Believers of Moriya Shrine", teams her up with a tanky mage(Kanako) and a glass cannon(Suwako), so she's the only support character in that group), meaning that she can become whatever you want her to be, as long as you develop her properly. I had also stated that Sanae could be seen as a weaker version of Kanako, trading attack power for healing and buffing options. And honestly, I can see her using almost any subclass with little difficulty(Warrior(Attack based), Diva(not fast enough), and Gambler(just no) are the only ones that would be pointless for her to have), which is why I actually thought that Sorcerer would be useful to her. It helps in case you want to give her some attack strength and variety for her spells without sacrificing her defenses, healing, or buffing, making her more well rounded for whatever she needs to do.
Come to think of it, considering their skill sets, I would actually put Reimu in whatever slot isn't filled by the Moriya Trio when the three of them are out, seeing as she can give group based heals and defensive buffs, and her attack spells(presuming that you'll ever use them at this point, as I would of flat out wished that they hadn't taken her Evil Sealing Circle spell away) can be strengthened by Sanae's "Power of the Living God" skill.
Related question to the above: how powerful is the Paralysis proc on Reimu's Yin Yang Orb when fully leveled up? It would be nice to know, to be honest.
Speaking about Reimu, like I said, why did they remove her Evil Sealing Circle spell at all? Unless it was to make Cirno look like a more viable option, but that still doesn't explain the Paralysis proc on the Yin Yang Orb spell when leveled up.
I'm going to just say what I think should of been done with her attack spells and her skills:
Yin Yang Orb: Personally, I would flat out of given the spell a Shock proc, rather than Paralysis. The reason would be simple...
Evil Sealing Circle: ...because I would give back this spell to Reimu, complete with its Paralysis proc, which would be powered up via leveling up the spell.
Persuasion Needle(New spell that I thought up): Row based, Spirit element, Composite attack spell, ignore some of the enemies DEF and MND and leveling it up would allow it to ignore more and more of the enemy's defenses. Formula is not strong, but the defense piercing aspect would more than make up for that, maybe...
Fantasy Seal: Okay, to be clear, I would make it so that it had at least a +60 accuracy to it from the get go(given that this move is a homing attack in the canon games), and have said accuracy go up as you level up the spell(+30 accuracy per level sounds good to me), so that it would as least be able to not miss when it's used. Granted, I know that the formula means that its damage output will likely drop like a stone as she is being built defensively, but at least until then, she'll have an attack that allows her to hit dodgy foes.
Healing spell(kind of forgot the name): If it isn't a Composite Spell, then I would change it to be so. Otherwise, it's fine.
Great Hakurei Border: No Change, it needs no improvement, really.
Now for the Skills:
Final Prayer: Odd that it restores only HP, and maxing it out restores all HP to the front line. I doubt that it needs improvement, but if it wouldn't be too much to ask, could this skill be made to restore the MP of the front line as well? Since this skill requires that Reimu be defeated to activate, it doesn't sound like it would be too much, would it?
Hakurei Guardian: I may not be an expert of the game or anything, but a chance of restoring 1 MP after battle? Seriously? I would rewrite it as this:
Skill Cost: 7
Max Level: 2
At the end of each battle, each character on the frontline has a (SLv * 35)% chance of restoring (SLv * 10)% MP(minimum 1 MP). This skill works even if Reimu is in reserve.
Unless I'm mistaken, the cost for the skill has been raised, but given the nature of the skill as it is now, it shouldn't be too costly for the effect that it gives, and said skill will be useful for more than early game, given that the MP restore is based on percentage instead of a flat number.
That's all I got for now. I hope that I haven't done the whole "wanting to make someone OP" thing again...
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Her heal is still useful in a defensive build, yeah. And in my experience, she doesn't even need to buff herself for it to be perfectly sufficient in healing HP; at least, when we're talking about non-HP-intensive characters; but, this might change in endgame due to scaling? In LoT1 scaling made heals more and more effective as the game progressed though, so- it's funny how in the end of LoT1 Meiling's Healer becomes a decent heal and Rumia makes a comeback as a capable character with the rarity of MT healing and an alright nuke, after originally... honestly being pretty terrible once other options are available.
You -can- buff herself, and it does boost her speed/healing power so it's not half bad if you aren't using Sakuya or something already (which I am but obviously a lot of people aren't) but the defense buffs are the most important and you're probably already covering those a lot with MT spells due to how important they are, but yeah, it's certainly there. Having her use the first buff on herself when switched in at the start to get her durability/speed going isn't a half bad idea when there isn't the likes of Reimu about.
About increasing the power of her attacks even in defensive builds with Sorceror... in a defense build Sanae won't even be able to tickle enemies (unless you have surprisingly good equipment on her for some reason), and she can't get much benefit from Sorcerer on her support powers since a lot of them only trigger on attacks; you can get better things elsewhere. Not even with Moses Miracle. An offense build is only worth considering if the boss is going to be notably weak against her elements and you have enough support elsewhere in your team already and could use the elemental coverage.
Reimu's Evil Sealing Circle was probably removed because MT paralysis is very powerful in random battles, and Reimu was already such a good character... and it helped make the likes of Cirno pretty terrible because there was so many better options. In this game Cirno is pretty alright, especially since they went and buffed her stats up in a rebalance. I used her until my team got too tight and I had to get really picky, and I did slightly regret seeing her go.
It's funny that you bring up making Reimu a good offense option because I'm probably going to have to build her in offense for randoms for the purple stratum. I barely even have SINGLE target moves that damage half of these enemies, and not a single MT one...
Hakurei Guardian is fine as it as because, quite honestly, a 66% chance of restoring 1 mp to the front row after every battle is pretty good, especially when you have one or two attack skills finishing a whole battle in many cases, and they probably only cost 3~5 mp. 20% of mp after every battle? Most characters would practically never run out of mp!
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@Kirin no Sora. It was at level 1. I tested it twice.
@SerelaDivine Aya's Divine Grandson Advent + Kaguya's Buddha's Stone Bowl allows me to get through those field type.
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If I had Kaguya I certainly wouldn't be having an issue with these guys. I might have forgotten about Kanako's wnd nuke working for it, though, which would be helpful, so thanks!
edit:Oh oops that's just Aya's fill-the-timebar skill, I thought it was a WND attack. Yeah I'll just have to build Reimu... and probably Sanae too (el oh el, but I really really need a MT spi attack so yeah) for offense builds for these randoms.
Oh wait, it's Light now, not spirit, right? Oh whatever.
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You can go back to get Kaguya at 10F later on. Even then, there's Yuyuko's Ghastly Dream. I had used Reimu myself for trash clearing on that floor if Kaguya isn't available, mainly needing to switch her directly out for Desire to Rest on MP issues. However, Wind is an acceptable element in that area with also considering that Pangu Gems are the only enemy there being resistant to spirit is also weak to wind.
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Yeah, evil sealing circle was just one of 3 different spells reimu had to make her crucial to nearly every team. Having 3 spells all with near-irreplaceable utility on one character who wasnt squishy or slow to boot is pretty nuts, thats why i think it was removed.
Her 1mp thing, i think its important to recognize that i works even if reimu is in the back. I personally dont have it yet, nor so i plan to unless i run out of good stuff to spend skillpoints on, but it doesnt look like a complete toss away skill to me.
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I just had my ass handed to me by 20f floor mirror that has beating out even my tanks with relative easy, much less anything that isn't a tank. So I came up with a crazy idea of making Nitori a carry due to her skill set from Maintenance, Cooldown, and Overheating. So I invested money into her stats, gave her First Aid Kit, Cinderforge and 2 Title of Grand Master Breaker, and made her a transcendent. The result was one freakishly scary Kappa that had 66% hp of Komachi with a Megasphere, take less damage than Tenshi, faster than Aya, and was throwing out Cold/Nature nuke spellcards every 1-2 turns or Super Scope 3D every 2-3 other turns.
(http://i.imgur.com/SIsRbS3.png)
Granted this picture was taken a while after I beaten mirror and promptly 1-2 shotting mooks in boss clothing part of floor 20 a lot of time but you can see how much power she had.
Edit: And I just realized that attack command counts towards Overheat. And promptly killing Demonic Hell's Slurping Worm just by autoattacking.
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I just had my ass handed to me by 20f floor mirror that has beating out even my tanks with relative easy, much less anything that isn't a tank. So I came up with a crazy idea of making Nitori a carry due to her skill set from Maintenance, Cooldown, and Overheating. So I invested money into her stats, gave her First Aid Kit, Cinderforge and 2 Title of Grand Master Breaker, and made her a transcendent. The result was one freakishly scary Kappa that had 66% hp of Komachi with a Megasphere, take less damage than Tenshi, faster than Aya, and was throwing out Cold/Nature nuke spellcards every 1-2 turns or Super Scope 3D every 2-3 other turns.
(http://i.imgur.com/SIsRbS3.png)
Granted this picture was taken a while after I beaten mirror and promptly 1-2 shotting mooks in boss clothing part of floor 20 a lot of time but you can see how much power she had.
Edit: And I just realized that attack command counts towards Overheat. And promptly killing Demonic Hell's Slurping Worm just by autoattacking.
...and this explains why you guys said that giving Kaguya the "Maintenance" skill would make her OP.
I mean, ouch...
Her heal is still useful in a defensive build, yeah. And in my experience, she doesn't even need to buff herself for it to be perfectly sufficient in healing HP; at least, when we're talking about non-HP-intensive characters; but, this might change in endgame due to scaling? In LoT1 scaling made heals more and more effective as the game progressed though, so- it's funny how in the end of LoT1 Meiling's Healer becomes a decent heal and Rumia makes a comeback as a capable character with the rarity of MT healing and an alright nuke, after originally... honestly being pretty terrible once other options are available.
Hm... You do have a point there.
You -can- buff herself, and it does boost her speed/healing power so it's not half bad if you aren't using Sakuya or something already (which I am but obviously a lot of people aren't) but the defense buffs are the most important and you're probably already covering those a lot with MT spells due to how important they are, but yeah, it's certainly there. Having her use the first buff on herself when switched in at the start to get her durability/speed going isn't a half bad idea when there isn't the likes of Reimu about.
Reimu's buff is a strong one, yes. But, combining the two buffs would keep Sanae even safer.
Either that, or she could buff Reimu, and let her heal. But I wager that's what most people do when both mikos are on the field.
About increasing the power of her attacks even in defensive builds with Sorceror... in a defense build Sanae won't even be able to tickle enemies (unless you have surprisingly good equipment on her for some reason), and she can't get much benefit from Sorcerer on her support powers since a lot of them only trigger on attacks; you can get better things elsewhere. Not even with Moses Miracle. An offense build is only worth considering if the boss is going to be notably weak against her elements and you have enough support elsewhere in your team already and could use the elemental coverage.
*reads the subclass section again...*
...and the only time I can think of that happening is against a CLD weak enemy, which few characters have. But, given that Kanako is a better option due to "Beautiful Spring like Suiga", well...
Reimu's Evil Sealing Circle was probably removed because MT paralysis is very powerful in random battles, and Reimu was already such a good character... and it helped make the likes of Cirno pretty terrible because there was so many better options. In this game Cirno is pretty alright, especially since they went and buffed her stats up in a rebalance. I used her until my team got too tight and I had to get really picky, and I did slightly regret seeing her go.
...I should of thought as much. Although I suppose that the fact that Yin Yang Orb can do a Paralysis proc by leveling it up is a compromise, perhaps?
Related question: I know that I asked before, but what is the strength of said Paralysis proc on that move? It might be useful in terms of whether said move is useful for that purpose, at least...
It's funny that you bring up making Reimu a good offense option because I'm probably going to have to build her in offense for randoms for the purple stratum. I barely even have SINGLE target moves that damage half of these enemies, and not a single MT one...
Said stratum is that tough? Wow...
Hakurei Guardian is fine as it as because, quite honestly, a 66% chance of restoring 1 mp to the front row after every battle is pretty good, especially when you have one or two attack skills finishing a whole battle in many cases, and they probably only cost 3~5 mp. 20% of mp after every battle? Most characters would practically never run out of mp!
1. 70% of it triggering... Which probably doesn't help my case here.
2. If 20% is too much, well... Hm...
I still have trouble see 1 MP as helpful, to be honest, especially if it has a 1 out of 3 chance of not happening. But, if it works, well...
If I had Kaguya I certainly wouldn't be having an issue with these guys. I might have forgotten about Kanako's wnd nuke working for it, though, which would be helpful, so thanks!
edit:Oh oops that's just Aya's fill-the-timebar skill, I thought it was a WND attack. Yeah I'll just have to build Reimu... and probably Sanae too (el oh el, but I really really need a MT spi attack so yeah) for offense builds for these randoms.
Oh wait, it's Light now, not spirit, right? Oh whatever.
Wait, is it called "Spirit" or "Light"? Because if it's the latter, then the wiki is in for a major rewrite...
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The enemies in that stratum has a pretty hefty boost to HP and those that aren't has some weird factor that makes them hard to kill (ghost of malice and void assassin namely). I have Aya ,Kaguya, and Sakuya along with a Diva Rumia with TP items to deal with the annoyingness of that group.
And no, it's not light, it's still spirit.
More on Nitori hijinks. I just defeated Ame-no-Murakumo
using the same strategy as above with a variance putting youkai shattering axe instead of first aid kit and autoattack while initially deals 1 digit until you start factoring (strategist) Byakuren throwing buffs on her, (Enhancer) Reimu concentrate+heal to keep everyone alive, (Magician) Aya giving everyone extra turn and MP refills, and (Hexer) Hina coming in to debuff it so that it is soft enough for Nitori to deal massive damage. Who knew attack could become so ridiculous? I think I broke the game.
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More on Nitori hijinks. I just defeated Ame-no-Murakumo
using the same strategy as above with a variance putting youkai shattering axe instead of first aid kit and autoattack while initially deals 1 digit until you start factoring (strategist) Byakuren throwing buffs on her, (Enhancer) Reimu concentrate+heal to keep everyone alive, (Magician) Aya giving everyone extra turn and MP refills, and (Hexer) Hina coming in to debuff it so that it is soft enough for Nitori to deal massive damage. Who knew attack could become so ridiculous? I think I broke the game.
Yeah, Nitori is great ain't she? I basically gave Nitori all those same items and invested not as much as you did though I am about as fast (mind you, Aya was still faster, about 380 speed yo) and oh god the resistances looked delicious.
(http://i.imgur.com/aJPv17m.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/McwRAJy.png)
Enemies that have drops don't drop anything with drop rate bonus 100%. Only in Gensokyo everybody...
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Hm... What's a good subclass for Eiki?
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If you're feeling lucky, go for Gambler.
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Id pick monk for her. Contrary to what the wiki says she is not particularly squishy (her def stats and hp are pretty close to reimu's), and while most people think otherwise, she actually benefits from damage buffs LESS than other nukes who do not ignore defense. I mean the more an attack pierces defense, the less be efit it gains from a buff.
For example if you ignore defense and raise attack by double, your damage will only double. If 30% of your attack is mitigated by defense and your attack doubles, instead of doing 70% damage you will do 170%. If you are awful at poercing defense on a nuke spell (killing doll a great example), and 70% of your attack is mitigated (its often more but whatever), your 30% damage becomes 130%, more than quadruple.
Similarly hsing this logic, ive always made eiki/kaggy mnd builds over attack/magic since itnworks in reverse... the less attack you have, te less your damage suffers due to a greater % being nommed by enemy defenses and while kaggy was still squishy vs physical, eiki's respectable def and hp combined with her now high mnd made her a pretty decent tanky bruiser.
That said i would make mine a monk cuz it will help her with atb bar woes, make her faster (which is always nice on characters who are beefy enough to stay out for hits intentionally). Majesty too would benefit from speed. Last she'll get a couple new attscks that will not be so brutal on her timegauge which will help if you wanna delay her just a bit before a buff or something. Or if you wanna smack someone for not neccesarrily omgwtfbbq!1 damage.
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@Xarizzar95. I think the increase isn't directly added to the drop rate increased by that percentage. For example, if I had a 4.5% chance of dropping a mithril hammer and drop rate bonus of 100%, the chances increase to 9%. Also, I don't have the tranlation on the reward page, did I miss an update?
@ZXNova Why Experimental MIRV? She's going to miss like crazy.
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@Xarizzar95. I think the increase isn't directly added to the drop rate increased by that percentage. For example, if I had a 4.5% chance of dropping a mithril hammer and drop rate bonus of 100%, the chances increase to 9%. Also, I don't have the tranlation on the reward page, did I miss an update?
@ZXNova Why Experimental MIRV? She's going to miss like crazy.
She has tome of accuracy maxed out, so I think she should fine.
EDIT
Herp, I was looking at the wrong person. It was Iku who had maxed accuracy. (Blind)
I still have a tome of accuracy though, so I could give it to her. Usually I give her a God Emblem, but I decided to give her an Experimental MIRV this time just to experiment. *shot
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I dont have that result screen either... Me want.
Also can someone give me an "aha!" Moment for toxologist please? Seems like a pretty lame subclass since all the ailments it gives are weak. Plus none of them even apply multiple ailments like some characters can do effing naturally.
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I dont have that result screen either... Me want.
Also can someone give me an "aha!" Moment for toxologist please? Seems like a pretty lame subclass since all the ailments it gives are weak. Plus none of them even apply multiple ailments like some characters can do effing naturally.
Toxicologist is good on Wriggle. Buffs her chances of landing poison, strengthens it, and also gives her more statuses to apply. It's really nice on her.
EDIT
Ok, I don't like Experimental MIRV on Nitori anymore, she just missed exteeeeeend arrrrrrm 4x in a row.
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@Xarizzar95. I think the increase isn't directly added to the drop rate increased by that percentage.
And I totally forgot about that. Never miiiind :p
As for Yuuka, I use a sorcerer Yuuka. Has served me well. It's also a matter of preference and feels ;) Monk, Sorcerer and (if you're feeling lucky, ) Gambler should be really good for her. If you want the best results, you should test it out yourself to see what suits your team and strategy best. If you're still unsure, you can post your team ;)
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oh yeah, when do I unlock ng+? After I beat the main story boss? or after I complete all the post game content? And speaking of post game content, does any of it require as insane a grind as winner in laby1? How about serpent of chaos? Even THAT was too much imo.
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You can unlock NG+ after you beat the Final Boss V1 for the first time. The post game content requires a lot of grinding, but in no way that can be compared with the grinding done in the 30th floor of LoT1, IMO...
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Toxicologist is good on Wriggle. Buffs her chances of landing poison, strengthens it, and also gives her more statuses to apply. It's really nice on her.
Toxo doesn't increase the chance of landing an ailment, just makes it stronger. Decreasing ailment resist is a Reisen personal skill.
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Toxo doesn't increase the chance of landing an ailment, just makes it stronger. Decreasing ailment resist is a Reisen personal skill.
Oh sorry, my point still stands though.
And the status strengthening is no joke. I gave Wriggle toxicologist, and she has maxed out poison and it lasts for a very long time. I mean very long.
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And speaking of ailments, I have two question on that subject:
1. I know that I have said this before, and I'm fairly certain that this won't ever happen in this game, but would it be strange of me to want Blind and Confusion as status ailments in this game? I'll post the stuff that I wrote about these two again...
Also, as a aside from the "things that I wish that they could add to the game, but I seriously doubt that it'll ever happen" department, would I be considered a bad person to want to wish for more types of status ailments? I mention the following as my thoughts on the matter:
Blind: Reduces accuracy and evasion severely, thus making it harder to hit others and easier to be hit.
Confusion: When performing any action other than a Form Change, a 50% chance of misfire may occur, causing damage to the user instead. Damage is calculated based on the stats linked to the spell used. If spell has no such thing, it defaults to the stats used for the Attack command. On enemies, it causes them to take damage with each action that they take.
Yeah, I know that it sounds jerkish, but I feel that a lot of characters can benefit from having these ailments available as options for their spells and whatnot...
My reasoning for these two ailments still stands, as I feel that said ailments would fit some characters better than the ones that they inflict now(the biggest offender of this, as far as I can tell, is Mystia, since Blind and Confusion would work much better for her thematically than Silence(both in inflicting said ailments and in curing them)). What do you guys think?
2. I remember that sometime ago, I had suggested a buff that would work as a defensive counterpart to the "Boost" effect, reducing damage by a certain amount against one hit. Now, I'm suggesting an ailment version of said defensive buff. My reasoning is simple, most ailment have a number next to them, indicating how long it will last. To explain how this will work, here's the spell, placed on a subclass:
Ailment Guard
Buff spell
Skill cost: 5
Max Level: 5
MP cost: 8
Post use gauge: 50%
Effect: This spell creates a buff called "Ailment Guard X" where X will be (SLv * 10000). When a status ailment would normally be inflicted on the person with this status effect, the strength of said effect, indicated by its number, will be subtracted from the number on the "Ailment Guard" status instead. If said number is not enough to deplete the "Ailment Guard" to zero, then it is negated. If the "Ailment Guard" is depleted and there is still something left over, then that is inflicted as normal. If multiple ailments are inflicted at the same time, It deals with them in the following order:
Poison, Paralysis, Shock(amount of time that would of been removed from the timebar would be depleted from the "Ailment Guard" instead), Silence, Heavy, Terror(if I was to put in the ailments that I wished that were in there, I would put Blind before Shock, and Confusion after Shock in this formula, but I digress...)
This buff will not stop debuffs(you can counter that in so many ways that it's not even funny), nor will it prevent instant death(no number to diminish, it either lands or doesn't, so "Ailment Guard" can't stop it).
So, is this idea good? Or is it too OP? Please, I would like to know the answer...
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Meiling uses Healer.
Meiling is confused!
Meiling hurts herself in confusion!
Reimu uses Exorcising Border.
Reimu is confused!
Reimu hurts herself in confusion!
In short , confusion is very crippling as not only will a misfire cause a crucial spell card to not fire, causing you to lose a character and perhaps the battle but if a healer gets confused, it is very difficult for them to remove it on themselves.
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Doubt anybody still cares but name of boss on xx floor spoilers within.
I have never liked confuse in any rpg ever. Blind would be ok I guess but in reality I'm sure every boss would be near, if not completely immune, except for maybe a gimmick boss or two that nearly require it. I doubt it will happen though, not just for fun reasons (it will not be for most of us), but the status menus will have to be reworked for it.
Defense boost, yes. I just fought tenshi on 12f, and her 1/3 hp threshold nukes could 1shot everyone in my party who wasn't momiji, kogasa, and remi. There wasn't a 4th who could survive it. Even kogasa died anyway cuz it nuked her for half her health which I didn't have at the time (I was expecting the boss to focus first but she didn't. blah).
Anyway, speaking of 12f. I did the first mirror boss and I was like hot damn, this is the most annoying stupid boss in the game since Tenshi#2! Virtually everyone in my group hit it for 0 except rumia's dark side of the moon, patchy, master spark, and 3d cannon. Rumia would barely dent the boss, and after the boss ate all my mp, the others take ages to get enough mp back to use their respective nukes.. blah.
then I do the next boss, which was even WORSE... more hp, also took 0s from most of my party (well actually many COULD hurt it...for like 1k), moved faster, could basically 1shot half my party at whim with its aoe physical attack, could effectively 1shot my tanks by dropping their hp to 1 then using a nuke (you'd think a move that drops your hp to 1 would have a decent delay so you have a chance to switch them out or heal them or something. but no.. the boss only goes to 7000 atb and is faster than aya... yaaaaa)... oh and its "cut your hp by half" move CAN kill you if you have 1hp.. blah. I'm like, ok now THIS is the worst boss since Tenshi#2!
Then I get to Tenshi... I nearly cried...and found she was easy this time. word. yeah she could 1shot some of my dudes at her 33% and 66%.. and her violent motherland could 1shot my squishies, but other than that she wasn't very mean at all, and while nobody could barely touch her but rumia, one single dark side of the moon would smack her for like 10% of her max health! With her def buff at 50%, and her hp reduced to 1 at whatever low %, and the fact rumia isn't too slow (dark side has low delay), I could pretty much spam it on her with impunity after the first couple. If I didn't have rumia (or other defense ignore nukers...she's my only one though), It would have been another story I guess.
Still though, I rekon she's a dirt-easy boss in general if you aren't anal about meeting the challenge level requirement thing like I am. Speaking of which, they are actually getting to be kinda high now to the point where I can actually be below it with characters like patchy/remi/ran once I bump into them.
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Odd, I didn't had too much problems with either of the 12f but might be because I had a buffed Yuugi punching down the mirror with Supernatural Phenomenon. Magatama didn't seem to make so much of an impression on me either. Then I solo'ed Tenshi with Hina...
This was all while on hard mode restriction.
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Hard mode doesnt do anything but make sure your level isnt over the bonus level thing right? Kinda self imposing that anyway.
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Hard mode makes it so that you cannot fight bosses without anyone over the challenge level (you'd have to reduce levels, of course), and it also makes it so that you cannot raise the level of any stat at Patchy's library more than 1.2 times the level of the character whose stat is being raised.
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True hard mode is to play the game without using any subclasses.
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Sounds like a self imposed challenge to consider, yes?
Meiling uses Healer.
Meiling is confused!
Meiling hurts herself in confusion!
Reimu uses Exorcising Border.
Reimu is confused!
Reimu hurts herself in confusion!
In short , confusion is very crippling as not only will a misfire cause a crucial spell card to not fire, causing you to lose a character and perhaps the battle but if a healer gets confused, it is very difficult for them to remove it on themselves.
Well, that would be the point, wouldn't it?
I have never liked confuse in any rpg ever. Blind would be ok I guess but in reality I'm sure every boss would be near, if not completely immune, except for maybe a gimmick boss or two that nearly require it. I doubt it will happen though, not just for fun reasons (it will not be for most of us), but the status menus will have to be reworked for it.
Reworking the system to accommodate these two ailments is part of why I consider said thought as "won't ever be added for this game, but is interesting to think about".
Come to think of it, Blind and Confusion could be considered the most devastating status ailments to be hit with(outside of Instant Death, of course), which kind of says a lot about how something so simple, so prevalent in other games as common status effects, could become so terrifying during a boss fight in Labyrinth of Touhou 2...
In fact, if a sort of "Bad Breath" attack was to be created and used by a boss, then even without Blind and Confusion joining in, such a move could become rather messy to deal with...
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Except there are such moves already. Take eiki for example... Didnt komachi also use one? Prob more im not aware of.
And yeah, sounds like hard mode is already what im already doing since i want the bonus items from bosses. Skill levels are just that naturally.
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True hard mode is to play the game without using any subclasses.
Oh so I how I normally play the game until I get to the final boss where I actually feel alright spending skill points on subclasses unless the character is Eirin then I say BRING IN THE HEALER SUBCLASS.
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I pretty much subclassed all my haracters that scream "make me this sub" and had 2 stones of awakening. I wanted a healer sub because i had nobody (who i currently use for my party) who could cure remi of her self-inflicted status ailments. I ended up choosing aya, partially because she had skillpoints to spare, partially because she could swap in and cure remi faster than anyone, plus her attack stat isnt a slouch so she could hopefully cure decently well eventually too (dunno yet since i didnt get cure for her yet).
In any case, im actually thinking its a good fit for her... Sounds really odd though, healer is one of the last things i would expect her to be =p.
Anyway, so far ive noticed that patchy, youmu, and kaggy all seem to have taken some noticeable nerfs in this game. Marisa took a slightly smaller nerf (asteroid belt no longer pierces defenses and smokes trash as well, nor does she seem to be super quick anymore, last, mana regeneration when switched out speeds seem way slower than in laby 1, making her swap in master spark swap out routine far less effective... Oh and master spark isnt even as powerful. It hit tenshi for 0... 0... Nitori still hit her for like 8k though with 3d scope. And her mnd was in fact lower than her def). Magicl missle on the other hand seems like it pierces pretty well like asteroid belt used to.
Cirno seemed more useful, rumia seems flat out good now (and i dont mean late game only), and aya seems far more bruiserey now than before too... Dodging well is an obvious plus too, as is having kaggy's old stone bowl effect too. Aya is great now, and she wasn even less than average before imo.
I have a feeling kanako is good for more than just a good cold nuke too now but didnt try her at all.
What characters do you guys think seem to have moved up or down in the ranks, and why?
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Kanako was mostly dead weight outside of her cold nuke in 1 since she was a little bit more robust but lacked the offensive power and ended up not being able to take major hits or deal proper damage.
Yuuka was hugely buffed with her skillset that greatly synergizes with itself. Even though she spells she has are the same as in 1 (and missing the multitarget masterspark) and even though they still do the same she can actually make use of her utility thanks to her staying power and extra-attack (Didn't stop me from having her in my party in LoT1 too.)
Keine is no longer obsolete (what she did was done better by other people in 1) but I didn't really use her too much.
Even though many people say that Okuu isn't really good she does become rather useful later on if you build her somewhat robust so that she can stack her overheat and fighting spirit charges. If you give her enough HP she becomes kinda Komachi-esque having low defenses (thanks to her self-debuffing) but enough HP to take hits and even her damage is alright.
In 1 she just killed herself. :V
Other characters also got kind of better but not as noticable as these from the ones I've used.
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Anyway, so far ive noticed that patchy, youmu, and kaggy all seem to have taken some noticeable nerfs in this game. Marisa took a slightly smaller nerf (asteroid belt no longer pierces defenses and smokes trash as well, nor does she seem to be super quick anymore, last, mana regeneration when switched out speeds seem way slower than in laby 1, making her swap in master spark swap out routine far less effective... Oh and master spark isnt even as powerful. It hit tenshi for 0... 0... Nitori still hit her for like 8k though with 3d scope. And her mnd was in fact lower than her def). Magicl missle on the other hand seems like it pierces pretty well like asteroid belt used to.
I have also noticed that Youmu's attacks aren't that powerful. I did need a powerful physical attacker, and I some people I know from this forum were saying that she was really really good, but for some reason, I couldn't get her to deal much damage as an attacker. I don't know, maybe I've used her "incorrectly"? I gave her the Warrior subclass and kept raising her attack, and still when she was fully buffed, her "Slash of Eternity" didn't really as much damage as I had expected. I don't know, really. Maybe because I use broken characters like Suika, Yuugi, Kaguya, Yuuka and Shiki Eiki?
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Confusion is an absolute nono. I'm serious about that. I hate confusion with all my heart. Blind would be kind of annoying, and honestly don't think it would be necessary.
Yeah, when I first fought Mirror it killed me so hard. I think I died like 20 times to that thing. Mainly cause after losing a certain amount of HP, Mirror gets faster and starts hitting harder, which really annoyed me. So I had to change up my strategy. Basically when Mirror gets faster and stronger, I have to start spamming attacks immediately. Just go all out until it uses super mana depletion. Afterwards I have to quickly restore mana and try to stall the best way I can so that Kaguya can start spamming Swallow's Corie Shell, and/or Hina gets enough mana to start debuffing. Was an annoying battle and precision was greatly needed, but that's how I eventually beat it.
Magatama wasn't as bad imo. Even though it used an attack that took everyone's HP down to 1, It wasn't as defensive and didn't hit as hard. So all I had to do is make sure Reimu or Minoriko/Eirin was still alive so that they could heal everyone and heal Komachi/Meiling. Also debuffing them with Hina. Did I ever tell you how amazing Hina is?
And ofc 3rd Tenshi... Aaaaaaaaaaa, so many horrible memories. The various times I'm trying to buff and switch out someone and then Tenshi is just spamming VIOLENT MOTHERLAND over and over and over and over, basically messing up Reimu's heals, and just being very very annoying. Hina is just trying to debuff Tenshi, but Tenshi still hits fairly hard with -50% Atk, stupid violent motherland. Me trying to switch out Yuugi/Alice to apply a silence/heavy so that I can use Kasen/Reisen/Hina to use their darkness attacks to scratch Tenshi... Oh my god.
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The Mirror and the Magatama held me up for like a month combined. I just kept getting squashed by them both for one reason or another - the mirror kept overpowering me with moves and the magatama went too fast, especially with black universe. (So glad the 20f version ditched it)
3rd Tenshi turned out to be hilariously easy in my experience by spamming Giga Flare/Dark Side of the Moon/Hourai Barrage over and over. Too bad she lost her 9F resistances to those :V
As for Youmu, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of her by making her a combination attacker/defender rather than a raw attack. Her skills of HP regeneration and statboosts with max MP honestly feel a lot more defensively oriented, and by making her a monk they can be combined with monk passive boosts to be even better.
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Sakuya, between piercing attack and extra attack, seems a lot stronger now than her LoT1 counterpart especially if the RNG smiles upon you. Actually anyone with extra attack will notice a larger offensive boost.
This one is more cotroversial but I think Rinnosuke may become more versatile with his high boost on whatever you want him to be which at least is not a one-trick wonder.
Aya seems more solid than before and pretty damn versatile with her speed matching well with a lot of the subclasses. And than her instant turn saves me more times than I could bother to keep track.
And then there is Nitori with Maintenance, Overheat, and Cooldown.
Yukari has taken a huge nerf due to Spiriting Away now taking all of your MP but that fix was warranted since it was a game-breaker in LoT1.
Patchouli has it pretty hard since a lot more enemies now has multi-target that target def and unless you have Aya, she pulls out her nukes way too slow due to the fact that enemies are going to be faster than many of your members now.
It's not that Wriggle is bad but she has less uses in LoT2 during the normal game since more bosses are poison resistant than the previous. I haven't done enough post game to gauge her properly post-game.
@Ghaleon, Healer Aya isn't too farfetch, I mean I made Aya a Magician which is even odder.
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Patchouli has it pretty hard since a lot more enemies now has multi-target that target def and unless you have Aya, she pulls out her nukes way too slow due to the fact that enemies are going to be faster than many of your members now.
@Ghaleon, Healer Aya isn't too farfetch, I mean I made Aya a Magician which is even odder.
I wouldn't exactly say that every boss has a multi-hitting attack that targets your defense, it's the fact that physical is an element of attack, and Patchy only has 60 resistance to it. So even with her sky high mind, there will probably be a magic boss who uses a physical attack that attacks your mind, and Patchy can't take that.
Oh yeah, I should also probably mention the Ran and Alice boss fights. Those two bosses have magic attacks that attack your defense, so I guess there's an example of an "unorthodox magic boss", I think there are other magic bosses like that too.
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Pretty sure there are more bosses with multi attacks that target defense over mnd moreso than physical.
The thing is even if an attack does physical damage but is mitigated by mnd, patchy should take it well because resistance penalties are calculated AFTER defense/mnd reduction. So 0 will stay 0, and 100 will be 140.
Instead she is routinely taking hits for 1kish in the back from attacks that are flearly targetting defense because everyone elsw with high mnd and low defense like rumia, minoruke, marisa, etc also get blown sky high by them.
Speaking of magician, im thinking of making minoruke my magician. Her mp pool is high, she gets a ton back via concentrate if needed, and is pretty darn fast herself now
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Minoriko's mp pool flows disturbingly fast, her 7mp spell is affordable even at the very beginning. Passively buffing MAG for the party is cool, and she's still a great mnd tank, so she can get some extra support from a subclass and have usefulness for the whole game; if you want a Magician she's an awesome choice.
Kaguya was nerfed, but she was OP in the first game. She would have been a solid character -without- ignoring all mnd for no reason, now she still does it but it's more balanced and she's limited by MP until you can manage to patch it up with equipment. After you get that equipment, I imagine she's pretty awesome, but I'm not using her so I wouldn't be sure.
Yukari is a pretty great tank in this game, her healing passive is really effective and she spreads her def/mnd manipulation passive to the whole front row which can be really good, along with having a copy of Reimu's def/mnd party buff. I... I actually couldn't get her to die against the 19F boss, and had to quit the game in order to start over. She just wouldn't die.
Sakuya is better because SPD scales better, at least for more of the game than it used to. I dunno, if you aren't running the whole SDM team she doesn't seem that good for attacking; but Extra Attack plus Lunar Clock and Enhancer subclass for more buffs (since they'll multicast) and having healing buffs is really selling it for me.
Kanako is pretty good in this game once you can get her stats up and rolling. Sanae is much better now too and Suwako is a good glass cannon gambler so you can run the Moriyas pretty effectively.
Cirno is actually worth considering to use now, as MT Paralysis and intense speed debuffs are now rarities, and she passively debuffs speed as well. She's more durable (she was buffed in 1.20x) and she can actually deal alright damage unlike in Laby1. With Rumia also being a surprisingly great character, you've got incentive to lug Wriggle around and throw in Mystia so you can take advantage of their ridiculous team bonus. Wriggle isn't bad if the boss doesn't resist poison, but she was better in Laby1... I wonder how poison damage scales lategame here.
And Rinnosuke... is actually a VERY potent character after you get the points for it. ALL of his high boosts are extremely powerful and turn the stat in question to something completely top-of-the-line even compared to the best, and he gets efficient formation change and ATK/MAG debuffs from taking a turn. The hardest part is just deciding what to do, and what subclass will be good enough with minimum points invested to get some skill for him to scrub around with while he godtanks and debuffs by simply existing. He's a pretty good character around lv60, in postgame content it must be simply ridiculous...
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This is a weird question, but if anyone has a patch for Labyrinth 2 v1.200 exactly (only the patch of course, I know not to ask for the actual game), could I get a link for it? I'm kinda obsessive about holding on to as many versions of a game as possible due to a curiosity of assorted glitches/version differences, and I realized I missed this one when it was available.
Edit: Another round of smarter searching and I managed to find it, so this can be ignored.
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This is a weird question, but if anyone has a patch for Labyrinth 2 v1.200 exactly (only the patch of course, I know not to ask for the actual game), could I get a link for it? I'm kinda obsessive about holding on to as many versions of a game as possible due to a curiosity of assorted glitches/version differences, and I realized I missed this one when it was available.
Edit: Another round of smarter searching and I managed to find it, so this can be ignored.
I looked and had it too.. BAWWW
Just for that you must answer that question not asked (but supported) by me regarding the translation patch with the updated victory screen!
edit: So I'm using remilia and not kasen despite my balance complaints mostly because remi is the closest thing to a "waifu" I have in touhou (tied with patchy and flan...refer to my avatar for the actual closest thing to a waifu I have), but partially because I refuse to use kasen to obsoleteificate remi and haven't lost 12 times yet (I spent 1 on 12f mirror, 2 on 12 magatama, and 3 on Tenshi #2)...and....and...I decided they (all 1 of the devs) indirectly nerfed her via giving virtually no items in the game with poison AND par resist. I don't think I have a single one with even MINOR amounts of both STILL except for the occasional +10/20 to absolutely everything type items.
I'm starting to think even in post game, having someone to cure remi from her own damn buff is going to be required to make use of it. Whereas before I could basically scrap that worry at approximately 13f. Granted I'm only at 13f now, but not only am I not done worrying about it, but I'm like "damn....I don't have a single item that does both yet". NOR do I have one that resists even just one of them but provides meaningful stat boosts in traditional stats as well.. just poison resist ring, par resist ring, etc.
My point is... DA GAME DEV IS A SDM TRAITOR!!! He clearly gave preferential treatment to the SDM last game and and.... I thought we here kindered spirits, and and *sniffle*, and and... *BAWWWWWW*.
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It'd be worth exploring how realistic it'd be to plan for Remi to actually get inflicted by one of her statuses, and skill her as a Toxicologist for the passive that converts her ailment into hp/mp regen. She also has Adversity to increase her damage while inflicted, which, since she does it to herself, is relevant.
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her poison and par ALWAYS land EVERY time for me...which you may think is good. but even if she gets buffed from par...she's still effing par'd.. good luck doing damage without moving before curing it first!...as for poison, it drops her hp from full to omgwtf omgomg imma die! in no time flat. If I was willing to sacrifice survivability for damage, I think gambler would not only provide more damage, but would actually be safer (taking 2x damage isn't as bad as going from 2nd highest hp to 1 in seconds).
that said, I don't even consider gambler a good sub for her.
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It'd be worth exploring how realistic it'd be to plan for Remi to actually get inflicted by one of her statuses, and skill her as a Toxicologist for the passive that converts her ailment into hp/mp regen. She also has Adversity to increase her damage while inflicted, which, since she does it to herself, is relevant.
I actually never thought about that. Seems like a cool idea.
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Heavy doesn't stay on her long enough, paralyze is obviously no good, and poison deals more damage to her than she can recover as well as put her in a precarious situation until you get a lot more HP post game to utilize it.
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So uhh...on 14f, the memorized knowledge boss 1shots my entire party...no exceptions... my entire party. my best tanks at 100% +mnd? 1snot. patchy? yep, momiji? yep, remi? yep, marisa? yep... no exceptions.. I COULD decide to not use level unification to reach the bonus level but otherwise everyone gets 1shot...sad thing is I tend to spec defensive builds on my characters MORE than virtually everyone else.... In short, this is a stupid as fuck piece of shit boss fight worse than what the designer proved themself capable of with touhou laby 1.
yeah I'm sure some guy or two will state hurr it was easy you're a moron or whatever but despite that I'm not lying. Yeah I know I can put mystic resist gear on my very best mnd-resist characters e, but that's only a select few. Even if it's possible given certain circumstances, the whole design of this boss is not only far more stupid than a poorly designed rpg like those of modern FF games, but beyond that beyond imagination given how miraculously good I thought laby 1 was.
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Yes, that boss is sort of stupid. Just wait for V2 later. :V (Well, it's not much different...)
How I did it: Sacrificed all but 3 people: 1 to take the hit and switch around, 1 to deal damage, 1 to heal
The way it works just isn't much fun. You move along a list of given commands since the boss does the same and forces you to follow up or rather be ahead. No variations or anything, makes it quite boring and longwinded
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Question: Does the strength of the ailments inflicted on Remi via "Curse of Vlad Tepes" decrease when you level up the spell? Because maybe that could help you out.
Is it not possible to increase one's resistance to both Poison and Paralysis to the point that said ailments are unable to stick via said buff? If one must prioritize which one is to be halted first, I would suggest Paralysis, as there is an option to dealing with the damage that Poison delivers...
Said option happens to be Wriggle, whose skill set can reduce the damage that Poison deals to allies(she has two skills that do this, meaning that she can slow the damage down enough for Remi to not die from the Poison), plus she can gain strength from any Poison that Remi is under in the first place.
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I was able to beatt Memorized Knowledge with having Komachi and Hina loaded with mystic affinty gear and HP and Aya with full built speed. Komachi can survive a flare easily, Hina can survive it as she is fully "debuffed" while debuffing Memorized Knowledge's stats. Aya is for her extra turn and getting out of there when it is about to use its attack. Nitori helps a lot in this regards by nuking it down while Chen can tear it a new one.
Edit: I am thoroughly convinced that Strengthed Mirror Magatama, and the twin wisps have a speed of 1000 as they are able to keep up with Cirno who has slightly above that.
Edit 2: Scratch that. Those wasps has quite a lot more if being debuffed at -21% still allows them to keep up with Cirno!
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So uhh...on 14f, the memorized knowledge boss 1shots my entire party...no exceptions... my entire party. my best tanks at 100% +mnd? 1snot. patchy? yep, momiji? yep, remi? yep, marisa? yep... no exceptions.. I COULD decide to not use level unification to reach the bonus level but otherwise everyone gets 1shot...sad thing is I tend to spec defensive builds on my characters MORE than virtually everyone else.... In short, this is a stupid as fuck piece of shit boss fight worse than what the designer proved themself capable of with touhou laby 1.
yeah I'm sure some guy or two will state hurr it was easy you're a moron or whatever but despite that I'm not lying. Yeah I know I can put mystic resist gear on my very best mnd-resist characters e, but that's only a select few. Even if it's possible given certain circumstances, the whole design of this boss is not only far more stupid than a poorly designed rpg like those of modern FF games, but beyond that beyond imagination given how miraculously good I thought laby 1 was.
The thing I used was Hina, Komachi, Aya, and Tenshi in the front line at first. Koma and Hina with Mystic Resist to survive flare and debuff, and Tenshi to knock off the buffs (with maxed out Scarlet Perception) so that Koma and Hina can truly debuff it. Even though Tenshi's Scarlet Perception sometimes doesn't act right, I can use Aya to use Divine Grandson's Advent to put her back at full ATB to use it again.
Yeah, Memorized Knowledge is pretty dumb. Especially since Tenshi's Scarlet Perception doesn't always act right. I found it slightly annoying, but it isn't the worst. The giant blue oni was worse. From what I heard, the strengthened memorized knowledge (and giant blue oni) are really difficult. One of the hardest strengthened bosses.
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From what I heard, the strengthened memorized knowledge (and giant blue oni) are really difficult. One of the hardest strengthened bosses.
It turns out the Strengthen Memorized Knowledge can be hit with shock, so you can always try locking it down with that? That's what I did, at least. (Took several tries, though...) Don't have any advice on the giant, though - haven't beaten that one yet.
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Haven't done any actual progress the past few days in my run, but was doing some future ideas.
1: Getting Wriggle is definite. She'll help a lot against Hina since I can't inflict Ailments or Debuffs on her except Poison (Unless something was changed so she reacts to Poison). Hina's gimmick make Kasen worthless, so I lose out on the power she brings here.
2: Since I plan on farming FOEs for some decent quick exp, I'll probably be able to kill at least 10, meaning I can grab Yuugi. Since I can wait till I can sufficiently beat her fast enough, I might grab her. KOitS might be worth using, especially since there are some Physical weak bosses on the later floors and she has the highest ATK stat growth.
3: Knew this for months, but THANK GOD I CAN SKIP THE FLOOR 4 FOE!!! Seriously screw that guy
4: Since I put Kaguya in the mix for a fight, I might think about throwing Mokou in as well. With this, I can grab Mokou on 5F and then grab Reisen
on 7F. The debuffs will help out, especially after I get Broken Aya.
5: Back to point 1, I might be able to grab Parsee as well, which will help against Hina. And give me a Mind tank as well.
6: I forget when I get my first Stone of Awakening. I need to look at the maps, but if I get it before Hina, I can make Wriggle's Poison more potent. If not, it's not a major loss.
7: Trying to look at possible Skills to get and Subclasses to use on characters I will/may get. So far I made a Pastebin for this specifically, It can be found here http://pastebin.com/7Dcw1eZW
8: If my money gain is enough, I might be able to grab Suika. In normal play, I've managed to 1 shot Sakuya with her. I doubt I can get that in a speedrun, but I can at least deal a large enough amount of damage to cripple her. Even then, she can still output a lot of damage on Wind/Nature weak enemies.
9: A number of the characters I will be grabbing I'm not entirely sure what to do with, mainly Satori, Kanako, and Suwako
. Others I have an idea of what to do with them, but I'm not entirely sure how useful they'll be, like Tenshi, Yuyuko, and Yukari
10: Thanks to an awesome guy, they've given me 1.40 and 1.50 so I can check out the Hard Mode Boss Skip glitch, and the Unification glitch respectively. This won't be for a while though.
Are spoilers still necessary?
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Are spoilers still necessary?
Other than maybe the extra part after you've beaten the normal Ame-no-Murakumo, and even then, probably not worth it. The only spoiler that will really be necessary will be for the Plus Disk when people start playing it.
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Hina helped me bring that guy's buff down but I needed Aya + Hina combo to get that working.
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Wait what. How to skip floor 4 foe?
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Ok so I never used this type item before but how do the growth eggs and shoes of happiness work. Do they go for just that character or does it increase exp for everyone and do the characters need to be in the front line.
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I believe only the one wearing it receieves bonus xp.
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Wait what. How to skip floor 4 foe?
There's a specific path you can take to go around it. I did it once and nearly shouted in glee cause I didn't want to fight it. I haven't tried it lately but I'm going to try and remember it.
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Wait what. How to skip floor 4 foe?
(http://imgur.com/fHjyBQD.jpg)
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(http://imgur.com/fHjyBQD.jpg)
Yeah, I remember having to find that path by myself. It was very intense. My heart was pounding and I almost felt like crying when that FOE was coming closer and closer. Then when I finally got around it I was so happy. Wasn't that hard honestly. But still... sp00k.
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I could have sworn i tried that but the foe would get to me before i even left that bottom narrow area, but thanks!
Infidentally i just remembered tht im pretty sure thats the very creature i was talking about earlier who successfully insta-deathed my youmu WITH a death resist item.
Wanna play but busy, but not happy about memorizd knowledge. I realize I can use different pary members with mysti resist gear or whatever, but im anal about not changing my party of twelve for the purpose of one boss/floor. I also dont like dramatically rearraging the items i use but looks like i have no choice. I can prob slap my absolute best mnd/mystic resist gear on like alice and minoruke and just 2 girl the boss. Maybe patchy but i dunno if the boss is vulnerable to mnd-targeting spells.
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I could have sworn i tried that but the foe would get to me before i even left that bottom narrow area, but thanks!
Infidentally i just remembered tht im pretty sure thats the very creature i was talking about earlier who successfully insta-deathed my youmu WITH a death resist item.
Wanna play but busy, but not happy about memorizd knowledge. I realize I can use different pary members with mysti resist gear or whatever, but im anal about not changing my party of twelve for the purpose of one boss/floor. I also dont like dramatically rearraging the items i use but looks like i have no choice. I can prob slap my absolute best mnd/mystic resist gear on like alice and minoruke and just 2 girl the boss. Maybe patchy but i dunno if the boss is vulnerable to mnd-targeting spells.
It is vulnerable to mind attacking spells, but it has a lower defense so... However you wanna do it.
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I could have sworn i tried that but the foe would get to me before i even left that bottom narrow area, but thanks!
Infidentally i just remembered tht im pretty sure thats the very creature i was talking about earlier who successfully insta-deathed my youmu WITH a death resist item.
Wanna play but busy, but not happy about memorizd knowledge. I realize I can use different pary members with mysti resist gear or whatever, but im anal about not changing my party of twelve for the purpose of one boss/floor. I also dont like dramatically rearraging the items i use but looks like i have no choice. I can prob slap my absolute best mnd/mystic resist gear on like alice and minoruke and just 2 girl the boss. Maybe patchy but i dunno if the boss is vulnerable to mnd-targeting spells.
I had something similar happened to me. I had my Komachi (116 death resist) getting death'ed by Eiki once.
Also, you mostly need the mystic gear on Komachi and anyone else you are planning to stay to weather Ether Flare. Everyone else you can switch out. Now that I think of it, has anyone had an attack that flattened Komachi in one hit regardless of affinity stacking?
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Komachi isnt in my 12 and like i said i dont like using charcters just for 1 fight/floor unless absolutely neccesary. Yes im aware that makes fight like eiki much harder =p.
But im thinking ill just treat knowledge the same way as as i beat keedamageddon or wtf its name was from the first game. Patchy isnt taking 0 from knowledge even with reimu buffs but is just barely dying by it and maybe if i just focus all her gear on m d exclusively she can (better if alice could since her attack is a def over mnd one)
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I had something similar happened to me. I had my Komachi (116 death resist) getting death'ed by Eiki once.
Also, you mostly need the mystic gear on Komachi and anyone else you are planning to stay to weather Ether Flare. Everyone else you can switch out. Now that I think of it, has anyone had an attack that flattened Komachi in one hit regardless of affinity stacking?
Are you meaning 116 extra resist? Cause Komachi has a base death resist of 160. If you do mean extra resist, you sir are very very unlucky. In fact you're already very unlucky just getting insta death with a character with a natural death resist over 60.
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Yeah I meant 160 (somehow I rolled a natural 1 on my numpad accuracy check). Still...it's freaking Komachi getting Death'ed near the start of the battle. Needless to say I had to reattempt that fight again. And someone thought they were unlucky with their Fallout jinx perk. I didn't even know that you can get death'ed with that resistance. I was tempted to try again and see if Yuyuko would get hit as well.
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Well I'm very surprised myself. I never got instant death before with someone with 60 or more death resistance. But seriously? Komachi? A SHINIGAMI? GETTING INSTA KILLED? wat
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Well I'm very surprised myself. I never got instant death before with someone with 60 or more death resistance. But seriously? Komachi? A SHINIGAMI? GETTING INSTA KILLED? wat
I blame Kogasa.
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Well I'm very surprised myself. I never got instant death before with someone with 60 or more death resistance. But seriously? Komachi? A SHINIGAMI? GETTING INSTA KILLED? wat
I blame Kogasa.
Why her? She's not to blame for Eiki being so broken...
And considering that this is Eiki that we're talking about, I can honestly believe that if anyone can Insta-death Komachi, it's her.
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surprised
Although, to be fair, it is Komachi's boss after all.
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Why her? She's not to blame for Eiki being so broken...
And considering that this is Eiki that we're talking about, I can honestly believe that if anyone can Insta-death Komachi, it's her.
Well yeah, it's Eiki. Lord Enma of Paradise. Strongest Touhou character, what do ya expect?
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Well this is getting annoying. A lot of the mooks in the post game area has such high defense or mind that they either no-sell either Nitori or Kaguya. One enemy in the jungle stratum no-sell BOTH, forcing me to use Wriggles + cherry tap to deal with it.
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Why surprising?
"Cuz kogasa" was a better response. Y U edit out. Whyyy! =p
Edit: no-sell? Wtf that expression come from?
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A "no sell" just means that there was like no effect. See:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoSell
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Well this is getting annoying. A lot of the mooks in the post game area has such high defense or mind that they either no-sell either Nitori or Kaguya. One enemy in the jungle stratum no-sell BOTH, forcing me to use Wriggles + cherry tap to deal with it.
Ah, yes, I remember those guys too. Annoying at the beginning, however they should be fine fairly soon if you don't skip battles.
Also, for some reason, that page they've made for LoT2 still hasn't been updated(Provides link to the way too old 1.151 patch), even though they updated the banner button in their main page... Am I missing something here?
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So I tried using my best mnd gear, and making starworld bracelets and stacking em on various characters of hp, mnd and both...nothing worked...so I had to give marisa the boot for tenshi to scarlet sword, which even at rank 5, and rank 2 scarlet perception or wtf it is that raises its chances of success by 40%, failed like 3/ths of the time for me. Basically I compensated by making my tenshi pure speed build with speed equipment and having aya out there to speed her up and grandson/father wtf it's called her in case she failed to unbuff the boss twice in a row (giving her a 3rd try). Despite this, fight took me like 5 tries before tenshi was able to unbuff the boss more than once.
Incidentally using magic nukers like patchy doesn't work very well. royal flare and silent selene do 0 (I was expecting silent to suck cuz it's mystic and the boss is obviously mystic oriented). Her other spells would do like 2-6k only... though it's odd that royal flare hits for 0 when the others hit harder, it USED to punch thru defenses better than all her other spells (other than selene), but now it clearly does not.
Now I have kasen, I feel so ashamed =P.
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Memorized Knowledge, right? I was lucky since I was using Mokou who resurrect tanks it like a pro, I'm not really sure how else you can deal with it apart from Mokou or Komachi tanking hits.
Debuffing it's speed is important, but even with Tenshi it probably deals too much damage on ether flares, and Tenshi really isn't the most reliable. While it's annoying to bring in someone just for a specific boss, I'd recommend pulling in Mokou (she really needs no equipment or anything, just her Resurrection passive and maybe a tp boost item) and making sure you have a form of speed debuff. It's weak to dark/physical and you really need to use def-targetting attacks, not mind. (Amusingly Kasen does debuff it's speed with a strong dark-based def-targetting attack... but unless you actually want kasen that's not a huge deal)
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Minoruke/patchy could ALMOST survive its nukes even at 100% mag when I give them my best mnd/mystic resist gear, but not at level 55. blah. That said I didn't do anything special to kill it other than replace marisa with speed Tenshi just for that one fight, between making sure it was not buffed, and making sure reimu/patchy/minoruke had high defense buffs (from reimu), its damage was manageable (minoruke in particular took 0s, patchy would too if I made her mnd like I liked to sometimes in lot1 but her nukes just seem to do 0s so often this time around I need effing mag qq)...simply getting scarlet sword to dispell the buff in time was the only difficulty.
But yeah memorized knowledge. I hear that making maps for these 3 floors is important, but I hate doing that. Incidentally I never needed one for the iron maze, though I do "cheat" by looking at the teleporter codes for that "binary" floor. I'm thinking I'll have to cheat and look at all the hole fall thingies because I have afeeling some treasures are only found by falling thru specific holes, but falling thru each and every one to see would be tedious as @%#%@.
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Generally you can just remember where on the previous floor there are big gapes of unexplored area, and then look for a hole above you.
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Koma can definitely survive the mystic flare with about 2 star world bracelet. Honestly, all I did was use Aya, Divine Grandson Advent on Tenshi in the beginning, use maxed scarlet perception and knock off the 100% mag. You could also use Hina (Hina is your most consistent bet) to debuff it immediately so that when it does boost it's mag, it'll be less than 100%. Gotta do some precision ATB tactics, but when done correctly, you can either 1. Debuff Memorized Knowledge's Mag to less than 100% once or twice with Hina. 2. Manage to knock off it's 100% mag and then debuff it's other stats. Assuming you're using Aya, Tenshi, and Hina. If you're using Koma, it becomes easier to debuff. Oh yeah, I just thought about this on the top of my head, maybe you could use Cirno to debuff it's speed a butt load.
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Yeah I wasn't using any of those characters at all though sooo yeah. I mean I know I could, and I know they would have helped, but like I said about anal about replacing characters.
I can't remember why I'm not using hina though, she was actually one of the characters I was looking forward to trying the most in this game, as I would hatate if she was out. I voted for her for TPW Evo+ for example. I think it's because I wanted to play with her so much that I wanted to wait for ng+ so I could play her from start to finish instead of just 3/4 of the game only , without dooming myself to forcing myself to try her two games in a row if I didn't like her or something.
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I have a great question now!
Which subclass fits better for EVERY single character?
I'm asking this since I'm going for a NG+ with Renko and Mari.
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That is one hell of a question and I don't think there is an all-encompassing subclass for every character. Heck there may be times when you actually want to switch subclass in the middle of your run.
As for Renko and Maribel. I am starting to pump up their stats but hasn't utilize them yet. One thing with Renko though is that both her attack and mag are pretty poor so a lot of the classes that require scaling based on those power would not work well for her (healing and damage classes). However, due to maintenance, she has the potential to become ridiculously tanky. Her HP is pretty strong and while her def is average and mind is subpar. Remember my picture with a super Nitori that excels in so many fields? Well, Renko has better defensive stats and does not need to focus on her att or mag at all so she can essentially focus on having tank and speed items. That's not all, her Sealing Club bonus while Maribel is on the field gives her an additional 24% bonus to all of her stats and she can regenerate 12% of that if she takes a turn after someone else (in comparison, Komachi only gets 10%).
As for her spellcard, it's pretty flaky from what I can see, both of them having strategic drawback. I am going to see if enhancer can mitigrate the self-damage.
I can't really judge Maribel yet on observation but I will get back to you on that.
Here are characters that I do have set on subclasses:
Nitori- Transcendent. Strength her all over the field and even further when augmented by maintenance.
Reimu- Enhancer. Gives her spellcard a mean to fulfill both roles at once though while prioritizing the one that is important.
Byakuren- Strategist. Has great staying power, lets her maintain both her buffs (to 100%) and keep the one she buffs longer.
Aya- Formerly Magician. Currently Diva. Magician is due to to reduce the amount of mana she needs to use while spamming Peerless Wind God, and her speed allows her to not only distribute speed buff but also mana if she finds herself where she cannot hurt something very effectively (desert stratum). Diva is to capitalize on her speed as well as emphasize her turn manipulation role. Magician isn't needed so much now since my character doesn't have as much of a mana problem as they used to.
Nazrin- Gambler. She needs power to be able to kill enemies in one hit so she can get the next turn.
Komachi- Healer. Ironic that a Shinigami is a healer. It's mostly to to make her self-sufficient as I can turn her respectable attack into healing for herself or allies (well mostly herself).
Yuuka- Monk. Helps with her issue with her bad speed as well as slow turns. It also gives her att based spellcards since she has a freakishly huge attack growth for someone that only uses mag spellcards. Not to mention ramping up speed rapidly with procing extra attack on puncturing thrust and that is on top of her Encounter with a Formidable foe.
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Started to do some streaming of my speedrun progress. Today I did the Komachi battle up to Floor 6 Tenshi.
Hina was definitely the major hurdle though. Took me a while just to beat her. Came close at one point but I took a risk I shouldn't have. Making Wriggle tanky for that fight along with Poison stacking is the way to go.
For those who may want to watch the archived footage, you can find it here.
http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman/b/528604353
It's about 5 hours long.
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So today I explored some 12f-15f, beat yuyu, thought she was a joke, then realized I forgot to level down to 60 (I was at like remi 61 and everyone else higher cuz level faster but patchy who was also 61), leveled down to 60, and was still easy, yay. I thought she'd be a pain by deathing people with 100 resist but she didn't.
Then I went to the shining giant boss. It started the fight by using its aoe after its turn 1 buff, then proceeded to ratsetsu fist me like effing 9 times in a row.. was pretty effing hairy. Once I managed to survive that it wasn't a problem, not even after 50% because by then I had some def buffs up and it didn't spam ratsetsu fist more than twice in a row. Incidentally it seemed to miss occasionally, which says something cuz my Momiji only has like 40 dodge or something to that effect. I imagine if you crank up your tank's dodge for that fight you can do pretty well.
Then I remembered yuuka which I haven't bothered to do cuz those damn bushes. Found out I finally unlocked the last bush, set my level to 52 (oops, guess I forgot for a long time), and...she was way harder than wiki stated. Her heal nuke would heal for 25.4k or something like that. not 15k, furthermore it would buff all her stats by like 8% as well...and yeah, she spammed the ever living @#%@%# out of it sometimes. She also seemed to have some kind of physical attack that she liked tossing at my back. 1shot a few characters with it. Fortunately she couldn't do anything to reimu, momiji, remi, and minoruke (alice was somehow 1shot as well even with def buffs, hurr), so I just kept patiently pegging away at her hoping she'd stop healing herself for long enough, eventually she did and I had a pre-buffed up nitori and patchy to take care of her at the last stretch.
Now I'll have to deal with yukari/flan soon... eeek. They were always more trouble for me in lot1 than other people. I was always a cootie-suke is easy kinda guy.
edit: flan was no trouble, yukari took awhile but didn't even kill one person..but ended up dropping nothing other than the 2 gems for being level 66. So I reset and tried again and got a star of elle-whatever, cool, I'll take it. I tried to do eiki too but I don't have BP with komachi.. ARGH I HATE FARMING BP. At least you can see how many you have this time.
Also, am I supposed to have figured out how to get to the top leftish corner on 15 yet? The one with the dragon foe? I can't seem to figure out how to get to it, but the foe is such a joke I can't help but think I'm actually supposed to be there.
edit: nm, found out how to get to it, thought I jumped down that hole already and it dumped me off at the switch which modifies the temperature by 15.
Seems like the trash on floor 16 is way harder than previous ones, IIRC trash started getting much nastier much faster like 16 is for me now on floor 13 or 14 in lot1. I wish it didn't have those effing cubes still though. God they're annoying. I have nothing that can deal with them but rumia and it's a pain switching her in, dealing with a cube, and switching her back out before the next fight every damn time I see an effing cube.
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The Fire Stratrum was actually easy though I suspect it is because they are letting you focus more on the puzzle rather than random encounter. It helps a lot if you have a cold AoE to take care of the floor (Patchy). The cube isn't too much of a problem since I had an alternative sweeper in the form of Sakuya whose has piercing attack and one shot the cubes while being able to clear out the other enemies (some are weak to wind even). So I guess that run Memorized Knowledge gave you the most trouble but the others were relatively easy in comparison (for reference, Yukari gave me a little trouble and lost about 4-5 to her). Also,, is it me or is the fact that you fought previous bosses in the past makes it easier this interval because they use similiar tactics last game?
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Its easier for sure in general but i think the biggest contributing factor is simply i know the inner mechanics of lot in general. When inplayed lot1 for the first time i was quite new, there was no wiki, and actually other than trance i dint think anyone else who spoke english beat it, and trance wasnt any help anyway cuz he LIKES overgrinding so any experiences he had with the game was not neccesarily viable at minimal levels (though we didnt know what minimal was back then, point is we (well I) still didnt go out of our way to grind up the yinyang).
Plus i kinda self handicap myself. I juuust made alice a hexxer because other than her trip wire, my entire party that i pretty much refuse to alter has no form of debuffing. I have no source of poison, par (well reimu can with yinyang orb later but i didnt skill i up yet), etc. alot of the "proper" strategies for bosses are not options for me so i just have to beat them via traditional means. The only real thing i do differently because of lot1 knowledge is prepare for near death focus 1shot phases.
That said mu general traditional playstyle is defined based on my knowledge of lot mechAnics regardless of boss patterns, which is to say my appreciation for tanky stats on even nuke characters and spamming reimu defense buffs accompanied by some via ran (i do her attack buff too), etc.
Is there some option to see the name of enemy attacks? I cant see em.
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Alright it has been way too long since I last played through main game so how many stones of awakening are there in main game I assume 11 but I am not sure anymore because I feel like I missed a stone of awakening for main game. I know you get 1 in postgame but I dont know if like one of the main game stone of awakenings where moved post game also.
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IIRC there were 10 in the main game, and you get the last two in the postgame.
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Seeing how messed up Maintenance is on Nitori, I went and see how it is on Renko.
(http://i.imgur.com/LrfiKgi.png)
Dat evade and HP. That's not even putting on items that are found post-game either.
For the record, I tried to see what happened if you build her more offensively despite having less than 6.0 growth on att and mag.
(http://i.imgur.com/hTQtgs1.png)
Well it's respectable enough though not enough to be a dedicated damage dealer (Galaxy Stop didn't really give me impressive numbers either). Doesn't help that, aside from Sealing Club, she doesn't really have much personal skills to boost her damage.
Edit: More news on Renko. Giving her the enhancer subclass and putting points into Heart of Prayers (heals when buffing) does reduce the damage that the frontline takes by healing them after the damage is deal from 33% to 17% while enhancer strengthening pushes the buff strength from 44% to 51%.
Total result is 17% HP front-line for 51% frontline buff which you can heal up almost completely with another enhancer with a party buff (ex. Reimu, Keine, Yukari, Ran) or Mari's Homemade Barrier (seriously, there's so much synergy between the two).
Conclusion: Enhancer is a pretty good role for her.
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Enhancer is just a good subclass in general. I mean most of the subclasses kinda require the character using it to have certain things to really utilize the subclass. But enhancer is just really good for any class that can buff.
anyway, 16f trash.. blargh... my problem is almost all of them have just a little bit too much hp to nuke down in time before an attack. kinda like bronze golems in lot1, it's like they all are bronze golems in that regard (minus their 1shotting everything).
Also, there's some red event thing where yukari yaps at me and I can't proceed, whatzat?
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Quick question about the "Easygoing" skill: does do the "regenerate hp at double speed when in the back row" thing? Because if it doesn't, then someone needs to change the info on the wiki to reflect this...
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I can't believe I actually was able to come back to the thread to see 5 new pages since I last visited.
Anyway, here's my current post game team:
Byakuren - Tanky Support - Strategist for obvious reasons.
Renko - Bulky Support - Enchanter for obvious reasons.
Aya - Evade Support - Monk because I specced her entirely for SPD and EVA and practically everything about Monk benefits her in that regard. She used to be a good source of Wind damage for me before the game decided they were having none of that.
Alice - Bulky Mage - Transcendent because she had so many points that I didn't know what to do with and it adds to her Bulky Mage role. She's my only other source of DEF targeting damage other than Eiki.
Wriggle - Tanky Support - Pharmacologist to give her something useful to do when bosses resist Poison. Even when they don't, Wriggle generally has more than enough MP to make full use of Herb of Excitement.
Minoriko - Bulky Support - Magician because she's a giant freaking battery when she's a Magician. Boss takes away all MP? A quick concentrate and Magic Transfer gets everyone up and running thanks to Rapid Charge OR several strategic Form Changes will get her enough MP to throw Magic Transfer around a couple of times thanks to Desire to Rest.
Reimu - Bulky Support - Enchanter for obvious reasons. She doesn't see nearly as much use anymore thanks to Renko though.
Kaguya - Glass Cannon Mage - Sorcerer for debatable reasons. I don't agree with Ghaleon's concept of buffs being less useful on DEF / MND piercing characters. I see the logic behind it but I'd rather have the raw damage of 200% (doubled from 100%) than the mitigated damage of 130% (~quadrupled from 30%). They're glass cannons anyway, so while you could feasibly have them take a hit or two, I feel like you're playing them wrong without going for raw damage. Plus having a Wind elemental attack in her arsenal is also nice. (Gambler doesn't have enough perks for me to use it instead. It also makes Kaguya's MP problems even more pronounced.)
Marisa - Glass Cannon Mage - Sorcerer for debatable reasons. I realize that the way I've been using Marisa, she's more suited for Gambler. But this would require me giving her MP equips just to be able to use Master Spark at the doubled cost and I'd rather have the option of casting Master Spark early without having to wait for her MP to fill all the way.
Sanae - Bulky Support - Magician because no other subclass really suited what I wanted to do with her. Miracle Fruit basically becomes obsolete once I use it to get Byakuren to 100% / use Renko instead, so her being a Magician gives her another purpose.
Eiki - Glass Cannon Warrior - Warrior for the same reasons I mentioned for Kaguya. Also, having two more types of elemental damage for when enemies resist Spirit is nice.
Komachi - Tank - Healer for obvious reasons.
I haven't done the Strengthen Boss Rush
nor Strengthen Ame no Murakamo
. The former is due to the fact that Strengthen Memorized Knowledge is a piece of shit and the latter is due to the fact that I'm farming the normal for stat gems (at 1 per run, seemingly drops all types except for MP and TP).
Also, there's some red event thing where yukari yaps at me and I can't proceed, whatzat?
Post game stuff. Have fun trying to beat the Postgame bosses at challenge level because I honestly have no freaking clue how to even attempt some of them at challenge level.
Also, why do you call Minoriko "Minoruke"? Just curious, as I've yet to see that nickname used for her elsewhere.
EDIT: I recently edited the characters roles to better reflect what they were, after I realized that I thought like this:
In case anyone's wondering, (I highly doubt people can't figure this out if they were actually wondering but anyway) in terms of survivability:
Tank > Tanky >= Bulky > Frail / Glass Cannon
(Tanky is greater than or equal to Bulky, since I'm sure some people use the terms interchangeably to mean the same thing).
This edit is largely cosmetic, but I like coming back and making my posts "better" in case new people come to the thread.
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Byakuren - Tanky Support - Strategist for obvious reasons.
Not sure... same reasons as why I say remi is mine? super good at self buffing and reducing the loss of it is extra extra good on her (in additon to having at least 1 strategist in general is good, but better off having it with the bonus mentioned than without...combined with the fact of the character being kinda "there" often regularly anyway so you get to buff your group more often as well.
Those are obvious reasons to me but in my experience with other people playing games like this, they don't actually think that way. They prefer "%s added to bigger stats is always better!" which..isn't incorrect per say, but it can be misleading sometimes.
Aya - Evade Support - Monk because I specced her entirely for SPD and EVA and practically everything about Monk benefits her in that regard. She used to be a good source of Wind damage for me before the game decided they were having none of that.
I made mine a healer cuz regardless of enemy wnd resist, her atk+spd provides good "offense per second" for heals, Evasion also helps in pretty much all situations. Do you not need a healer? well don't make her one. I felt like I wasn't having TOO many healers then thought who would be the best, chose her.. if you ahve too many ignore ofc but may be worth considering if you get a chance to try again!
Alice - Beefy Mage - Transcendent because she had so many points that I didn't know what to do with and it adds to her Beefy Mage role. She's my only other source of DEF targeting damage other than Eiki.
And Aya minus your problem with wnd resist (or whatever it is causing your problems with aya). That said I don't know transcendent at all yet, don't have one yet (not far enough), however I think I read somewhere that it buffs your characters' base stats much like the skillups and the special gems...as in they add a flat amount * level... as in more significant benefit to those who are LOW in those stats than those high (adding 1 to 5 is a bigger deal than adding 1 to 15). I don't know if these mechanics are correct or not (wiki, please be more complete like in lot1 qq), but if they are having "good in everything" stats to begin with, it may in fact affect them less so than others...that said. I'm not saying transcend is a bad choice. I mean if you wish to help her offense and defense it's not like anything else does better.
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Kaguya - Glass Cannon Mage - Sorcerer for debatable reasons. I don't agree with Ghaleon's concept of buffs being less useful on DEF / MND piercing characters. I see the logic behind it but I'd rather have the raw damage of 200% (doubled from 100%) than the mitigated damage of 130% (~quadrupled from 30%). They're glass cannons anyway, so while you could feasibly have them take a hit or two, I feel like you're playing them wrong without going for raw damage. (Gambler doesn't have enough perks for me to use it instead. It also makes Kaguya's MP problems even more pronounced.)
not saying you can't disagree, but I have a feeling that you're disagreeing with something I never said. What I SAID was blah blah blah I think you really did understand. What I think you misunderstood though is I never actually said that said classes that amplify the attacks of characters who ignore defenses are poor choices all the time. I just said they don't affect those characters as much as they do others, so consider other possibilities before you blindly (and by you I don't mean the person I'm quoting but general players) think sorcerer = best choice for mag nuke, warrior = best choice for atk nuke.
I honestly don't see another class that demands use from kaggy soo... yeah. I don't disagree with your choice sooo..I don't think you can disagree with mine? =P.
Now eiki on the other hand, I said monk, and I stick by my claim. I don't think "foolish idiot making eiki a warrior, what an effing noob" (no I'm not suggesting you were that offensive either I'm just having fun here =P ), but monks are kind of an odd class where that they are not pure physical like sorcerer is pure magical and warrior pure physical, they do in fact favor physical nukes over magical...I still think your eiki would be better as a monk. Now I said it like a dozen times, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I don't know/understand stuff yet (lot2 mechanics are still full of unknown variables so yeah, I have no shame saying such). But assuming everything is the same as lot1, I think that while warrior is indeed a better class for eiki than most of everything else (unless you used for something other than judgment spam...judgment is so amazing though, why would you do otherwise! =P ), I think monk is the exception for her. Because as I mentioned, the warrior attack buffs on her don't actually affect her as much as they could others, and the monk buffs affect her as well, by a very competitive amount (in additon to helping her other stats, which are NOT bad unlike what the wiki says)
Marisa - Glass Cannon Mage - Sorcerer for debatable reasons. I realize that the way I've been using Marisa, she's more suited for Gambler. But this would require me giving her MP equips just to be able to use Master Spark at the doubled cost and I'd rather have the option of casting Master Spark early without having to wait for her MP to fill all the way.
I agree, I kinda think gambler has too extreme drawbacks to its benefits. Especially now in lot2 where getting mp when outside the front 4 using focus/concentrate seems so much slower.
Eiki - Glass Cannon Warrior - Warrior for the same reasons I mentioned for Kaguya. Also, having two more types of elemental damage for when enemies resist Spirit is nice.
blah blah monk blah has more than just spirit too blah.
Also, why do you call Minoriko "Minoruke"? Just curious, as I've yet to see that nickname used for her elsewhere.
...
because I suck with names...and cuz after all these years...nobody else has corrected me, and..uhh...I suck with names.. like...aot. and... *RUNS AWAY CRYING*
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OK I think I figured the reason why some of my characters have not been performing very well in the post dungeon of late, elemental affinity. It seems that the game expect you to have 200 affinity by the time you get there. This probably explains why I been dealing 0 damage to some enemies. This is going to be expensive.
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I agree with many of the thing said by jaxter, but there are some things I question and just feel like saying.
Byakuren - Tanky Support
I honestly never thought of her as a tanky support. But I can see why someone would do that. She certainly has the potential for it. However, imo, Byakuren is more of a Bulky Offensive support. I gave Byakuren Monk because Byakuren is a Monk (drunk). Also the regen, bonus speed, the skills, ATB reduction, etc.
Tanky Support Wriggle - Pharamcologist huh? Never thought about that. I should try it.
Glass Cannon Mage Kaguya - I wouldn't exactly call Kaguya "glass cannon" She has very high mind, so I would rather call her bulky mind mage. I was always confused on what subclass to give her. It's difficult to choose for someone like her.
Gambler Marisa - That honestly makes so much sense.
Glass Cannon Warrior Eiki - Another character I have a hard time thinking of a subclass for.
@Kirin no Sora - It does do that.
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Also, why do you call Minoriko "Minoruke"? Just curious, as I've yet to see that nickname used for her elsewhere.
I was wondering that, too..
...
because I suck with names...and cuz after all these years...nobody else has corrected me, and..uhh...I suck with names.. like...aot. and... *RUNS AWAY CRYING*
...and now I'm glad that I didn't ask.
Note about Transcendent: If the stat boosting is per level, then it would benefit fast levelers(Chen, Rumia, Kogasa, Minoriko, Cirno) more than slow ones(Patchouli). In fact, part of me wants to think that characters like Chen can benefit from said sub-class more than things like Warrior in late-game/post-game because of the high levels that you would have by then. 3.3 stat up on HP, ATT, DEF, MAG, MND, and SPD(does it boost SPD? I don't remember...) per level on Chen, the fastest leveler in the game? Yes, please!
Also worth asking: Does the party level still depend of the average of the levels of the party members, or was that changed?
Sanae - Tanky Support - Magician because no other subclass really suited what I wanted to do with her. Miracle Fruit basically becomes obsolete once I use it to get Byakuren to 100% / use Renko instead, so her being a Magician gives her another purpose.
And this is why I would ask for one of three things for her:
1. Give her back her "Nine Syllable Stabs" spell, with the effect that her "Night with Bright Guest Stars"(is that the name, can't seem to remember...) spell's effect from LoT1 had(that would be a 50% EVA debuff, which was useless in that game due to EVA being nonfunctional). As for elements, I would switch her "Night with Bright Guest Stars" spell to MYS, and make this spell SPI element. Granted, if this was combined with my idea of Remi getting a new spell that causes Heavy and a EVA debuff, it would kinda weaken the effect of the idea of the EVA debuff somewhat, but in Sanae's case, this would help her in being a party oriented support character.
2. Give "Miracle Fruit" the power to buff EVA, since there is no one who can do so with a spell. This makes it so that her buff is still useful, even after you get Byakuren(since Byakuren's skill set doesn't help in maintaining EVA).
3. Make her "Moses Miracle" spell more effective by causing it to ignore more and more of the enemy's MND. That way, she'll actually have a more useful offensive option.
On a side note, did anyone write in the wiki that Sanae's heal spell can cure Heavy? Figured that I should ask that...
OK I think I figured the reason why some of my characters have not been performing very well in the post dungeon of late, elemental affinity. It seems that the game expect you to have 200 affinity by the time you get there. This probably explains why I been dealing 0 damage to some enemies. This is going to be expensive.
Wait. Elemental affinity affects offense now? I thought that it only helped in defense.
Glass Cannon Mage Kaguya - I wouldn't exactly call Kaguya "glass cannon" She has very high mind, so I would rather call her bulky mind mage. I was always confused on what subclass to give her. It's difficult to choose for someone like her.
Most offensive mages tend to have high MND, so Kaguya isn't an exception due to that. What makes her special is her affinities, which is the best in the whole game. In fact, the best way to increase her defenses is to raise them up as much as much as you can, which is why people argue that Patchouli is worse than her as a mage.
Of course, as for my thoughts on how to improve Patchouli's defenses:
Also, they could make it so that her "Passive Philosopher Stone" skill can work like this:
Skill Point Cost: 9
Max Level: 3
Effect: Whenever Patchouli uses a spell with an element, if an enemy attacks her with the same element as the one she used before, the damage received will be reduced by (SLv * 30)%. This effect can apply to up to 3 different elements at the same time, with the next newest element overwriting the oldest one in turn.
If I recall correctly, a 90% reduction in damage would be rather useful in actually surviving a hit, and the fact that it registers up to three different elements at the same time means that you can protect yourself and cast a different spell without losing that protection. Since Patchouli is frail as she is, such a defense would be helpful, yes?
@Kirin no Sora - It does do that.
Ah. So then, Easygoing would have quite the profound effect if someone like Meiling had it, which is why you guys said that it would make her OP(even though I still disagree with that, but to each their own...)
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From what I've tested in version 1.203, Easygoing doesn't regenerate HP at double speed in the back row.
It also doesn't say that anywhere in the description.
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Note about Transcendent: If the stat boosting is per level, then it would benefit fast levelers(Chen, Rumia, Kogasa, Minoriko, Cirno) more than slow ones(Patchouli). In fact, part of me wants to think that characters like Chen can benefit from said sub-class more than things like Warrior in late-game/post-game because of the high levels that you would have by then. 3.3 stat up on HP, ATT, DEF, MAG, MND, and SPD(does it boost SPD? I don't remember...) per level on Chen, the fastest leveler in the game? Yes, please!
Where did everyone get the idea that it adds 0.3 + 3.0 to the growth on the wiki? From what I seen, it adds an initial 3 to the baseline value, then 10 more for Body Reinforcement.
Before/after transcendant and body reinforcement.
(http://i.imgur.com/BBn76QR.png)(http://i.imgur.com/DSIyS99.png)
Note that every value is increase by 13
Also worth asking: Does the party level still depend of the average of the levels of the party members, or was that changed?
Seems to be.
On a side note, did anyone write in the wiki that Sanae's heal spell can cure Heavy? Figured that I should ask that...
I would be willing to do so but it seems to be a hassle to get verified
Wait. Elemental affinity affects offense now? I thought that it only helped in defense.
Odd. I thought the damage increase while I was upping her elemental cold but I guess I was mistaken, my apologies.
Most offensive mages tend to have high MND, so Kaguya isn't an exception due to that. What makes her special is her affinities, which is the best in the whole game. In fact, the best way to increase her defenses is to raise them up as much as much as you can, which is why people argue that Patchouli is worse than her as a mage.
Of course don't forget to stick a first aid kit to bulk up her health even further.
Of course, as for my thoughts on how to improve Patchouli's defenses:
If I recall correctly, a 90% reduction in damage would be rather useful in actually surviving a hit, and the fact that it registers up to three different elements at the same time means that you can protect yourself and cast a different spell without losing that protection. Since Patchouli is frail as she is, such a defense would be helpful, yes?
If you mean her skill, Passive Philosopher's Stone, that's 70%. Something to note is that it does not cover spirit, dark, and physical because of her lacking the correct spell element and her affinity to those is poor as well and I seen plenty of def targeting multi-attack with those elements.
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Party level is the highest leveled member in your party, not an average.
Affinities only effect resistances.
Chen isn't better with transcendent than others because she's still going to be glass, so she really doesn't benefit from the overall increases; she's better off with a pure damage class like Warrior or Gambler (monk could have it's uses)
Patchouli's Philosopher's Stone will cover physical when she uses Concentrate, which could synergize with her Grand Incantation skill. But it's still questionable if she'd live through a physical even then, even with a first aid kit, considering her rock-bottom defense. (-70% is a lot though so maybe she'd be fine after all, with a first aid kit)
Easygoing has a different description in the latest translation patch than it does on the wiki. With how the patch effort handles lines that were changed, the description ingame is more likely to be the accurate one. Renko can heal herself a massive amount with Concentrate if you use a main equip for it... but she's got plenty of tempting main equip choices.
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Party level is average level in Normal mode, highest level in Hard mode.
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Even if you do somehow manage to take care of Chen's stat problems in terms of survivability, she also has the worst aiment resistant AND elemental affinity total. The creators of the game went out of their way to tell us, she's not meant take any hits.
Also, not sure about this but it feels like Maribel plays like a hybrid Reimu + Patchy. Anyone else has experience with her give me more insight?
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@ Kirin no Sora - OH wait sorry, I'm thinking of an ability with a similar effect but a different name. (Desire to Rest). Sorry I'm dumb. Also, I know about the resistance thing on Kaguya. They are just so good man. Though, I honesty see no reason to compare Kaguya to Patchy, they don't seem like the types of comparing. If you do compare them, Kaguya is just gonna win in the end hands down. There will be some situations where Patchy may be better in, so no worries. I think every character in this game has a justification for being used at some point (even late game).
Also, if Easygoing were to be on Meiling, I really do believe it'd make her OP. I use it her all the time, and if she had to ability to regenerate HP while concentrating while also having a powerful self heal and a decent heal/status removal, she would be the master healer. Now give her a healer subclass and she's broke. No one will die, not on Meiling's base! Meiling got super nuked and isn't fast enough to use her heal? Switch her out. Heal super fast, come back out.
EDIT
What do you think of Monk Rin?
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Not sure... same reasons as why I say remi is mine? super good at self buffing and reducing the loss of it is extra extra good on her (in additon to having at least 1 strategist in general is good, but better off having it with the bonus mentioned than without...combined with the fact of the character being kinda "there" often regularly anyway so you get to buff your group more often as well.
Those are exactly the reasons why she's a Strategist.
Those are obvious reasons to me but in my experience with other people playing games like this, they don't actually think that way. They prefer "%s added to bigger stats is always better!" which..isn't incorrect per say, but it can be misleading sometimes.
I guess I gave people a bit too much credit then if that's the case.
not saying you can't disagree, but I have a feeling that you're disagreeing with something I never said. What I SAID was blah blah blah I think you really did understand. What I think you misunderstood though is I never actually said that said classes that amplify the attacks of characters who ignore defenses are poor choices all the time. I just said they don't affect those characters as much as they do others, so consider other possibilities before you blindly (and by you I don't mean the person I'm quoting but general players) think sorcerer = best choice for mag nuke, warrior = best choice for atk nuke.
I honestly don't see another class that demands use from kaggy soo... yeah. I don't disagree with your choice sooo..I don't think you can disagree with mine? =P.
I guess I just misinterpreted what you said. I made the connection that since buffs are less effective on piercing characters, a subclass that essentially buffs a specific stat (ATK for Warrior, MAG for Sorcerer) would fall under the category of being less than optimal, by your logic.
Now eiki on the other hand, I said monk, and I stick by my claim. I don't think "foolish idiot making eiki a warrior, what an effing noob" (no I'm not suggesting you were that offensive either I'm just having fun here =P ), but monks are kind of an odd class where that they are not pure physical like sorcerer is pure magical and warrior pure physical, they do in fact favor physical nukes over magical...I still think your eiki would be better as a monk. Now I said it like a dozen times, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I don't know/understand stuff yet (lot2 mechanics are still full of unknown variables so yeah, I have no shame saying such). But assuming everything is the same as lot1, I think that while warrior is indeed a better class for eiki than most of everything else (unless you used for something other than judgment spam...judgment is so amazing though, why would you do otherwise! =P ), I think monk is the exception for her. Because as I mentioned, the warrior attack buffs on her don't actually affect her as much as they could others, and the monk buffs affect her as well, by a very competitive amount (in additon to helping her other stats, which are NOT bad unlike what the wiki says)
.
.
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blah blah monk blah has more than just spirit too blah.
The way I play her is that I swap her in for an attack and swap her back out.
Monk Eiki doesn't appeal to me because the reduction in ATB consumption is wasted since she's not staying in after she attacks anyway.
The EVA boost from Monk's Knowledge is also wasted since she's not supposed to take a hit with the way I play her and Body Revitalization is wasted since she's not out for more than one turn anyway. Body Revitalization also works best on characters who take turns often and Eiki isn't exactly one of the faster characters. Also who takes the most turns other than the fastest in Gensokyo? (Rhetorical Question, just in case that didn't get across through text)
I realize that the buffs would still stay on her, but in my opinion, Body Revitalization works best when said skill holder is actively in battle potentially taking hits. My Aya has equipment for HP and Elemental Affinities as well as SPD and EVA, so that if she DOES take a hit, she might still survive.
And while Monk also has two additional elements with useful side effects, the way I play Eiki just does not mesh with her being a Monk.I agree with many of the thing said by jaxter, but there are some things I question and just feel like saying.
Byakuren - Tanky Support
I honestly never thought of her as a tanky support. But I can see why someone would do that. She certainly has the potential for it. However, imo, Byakuren is more of a Bulky Offensive support. I gave Byakuren Monk because Byakuren is a Monk (drunk). Also the regen, bonus speed, the skills, ATB reduction, etc.
My initial thought after getting Byakuren was to make her into the best offensive character ever with decent bulk. After speccing her for attacking however, I felt she played more like Alice in the damage department. She wasn't doing the amazing damage I was expecting, so I instead turned her into a support which has proven to be highly effective for my play style. Offensive Support Byakuren could easily work since 3 out of her 4 offensive options inflict useful side effects and Skanda's Legs is a good self SPD boost while also attacking, but I just didn't need her for that.
Monk Byakuren would definitely suit that style, since her delays are decently large to make use of the ATB reduction (which I'll remind everyone that it decreases consumption by 10%, not a flat 1000.) and Body Revitalization just adds to what Byakuren already does naturally.Where did everyone get the idea that it adds 0.3 + 3.0 to the growth on the wiki? From what I seen, it adds an initial 3 to the baseline value, then 10 more for Body Reinforcement.
Before/after transcendant and body reinforcement.
(http://i.imgur.com/BBn76QR.png)(http://i.imgur.com/DSIyS99.png)
Note that every value is increase by 13
The numbers on that page of the game is misleading. Your actual stat growth is 1/10th of the baseline value.
Transcendent adds .3 to the stat growths of HP, ATK, DEF, MAG, MND, SPD due to Transcendent's Knowledge (meaning it'd add 3 to the baseline value)
and adds .1 for each point put into Body Reinforcement (meaning it'd add 1 to the baseline value)
I'm actually more surprised and curious about where you pulled the 0.3 + 3.0 from.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Touhou_2/Gameplay#Base_Stats_and_Stat_Formulas
Also, to answer question of whether or not Sanae's spell cures Heavy:
[attach=1]
I've updated the wiki to reflect this.
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Finally beat the post-game yesterday evening. I agree with Xarizzar from a while ago that while the Strengthen Final Boss requires higher numbers to beat, his strategy is far easier to figure out than that of
Culex's and a few others
. So yeah, I'm done. 104 achievables. I'm already looking forward to my challenge run, exploring characters like Rinnosuke, Momiji, Ran, Sanae and others that I've immediately shoved aside for whatever reason.
Also, not sure about this but it feels like Maribel plays like a hybrid Reimu + Patchy. Anyone else has experience with her give me more insight?
I've had her around whereever she would be remotely useful during post-game. I wouldn't reduce her to just being a hybridization of others. Very few characters have the shake-ailment linked to a somewhat powerful attack. Her self-buffs may be the best in my opinion, even with the HP-reduction. Her Homemade Barrier I've only used very rarely, the healing is not too strong and I'd rather have Pharmacologists target dedicated attackers with a superior boost than the whole group. Most of the time, I only have one good attacker active anyway, not wanting to risk losing several at a time and all.
Her biggest niche I'd say is the skill where she calculates buffs as debuffs. It helped me a lot against the Root of Magic
. That one was such a pain!
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I thought maribel was a god-awful character in lot1. But now she looks effing amazing. her defenses are better than reimu's, and she doesn't level up that much slower either, her self buff is obviously good, especially since it doesn't decay as fast for her. Oh and she's got like the only void element attack in the game (though I guess it's not that big a deal since so many characters have arm twisting).
And yeah, that buff reversal thing is probably flat out game-breaking for certain bosses. I mean I imagine she could basically solo any boss that buffs itself to 100% regularly.
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Hmmm... I wonder if Monk could be a good subclass on Yuugi. I know for certain Warrior is probably the best class for her, but I also wonder about Monk...
EDIT
Where can I get more stat gems?
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Monk is pretty decent on Yuugi especially if you use her as someone that stays on the field and helps with her issue with her speed and long delay on KOI3S nuke as well as good constant damage from Supernatural Phenomenon though note that her speed will still not be stellar. Before floor 16, it also allows her to be good at sweeping trash as well. It also gives her an option to combat against enemies that are virtually immune to physical damage (though using Yuugi against such a foe may be questionable).
You can farm the normal final boss for gems. It's a little annoying since you cannot skip the ending cut-scene.
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Aw... really? I have to fight the final boss over and over again to get more gems :|
Anyway, just fought the strengthened evil nut eater, this boss is quite annoying. Komachi was not doing such a good job tanking in this one. However, I did just discover how freaking tanky Wriggle is. She was tanking a lot better than Komachi for this fight. (Likely due to her high resistances and nature resistance) I'm so glad to have her as tank, she really put in a lot of work before being ko'd unfortunately. Poisoning a lot things, using poison touch to counter attack, and using paralyzing incense (that was the biggest help). After Wriggle died I switched to Komachi and had Remi switched out by now with Scarlet Devil Mansion+Last Fortress+Majesty+Curse of Vlad Tepes and ready to spear this chipmunk, but then Komachi used Narrow Confines of Avici and inflicted death on the evil nut eater... which was completely unexpected and quite reliving, though I could have handled it just fine without it. It just really really shortened the annoying battle. Thank you based Komachi.
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Aw... really? I have to fight the final boss over and over again to get more gems[/b] :|
Anyway, just fought the strengthened evil nut eater, this boss is quite annoying. Komachi was not doing such a good job tanking in this one. However, I did just discover how freaking tanky Wriggle is. She was tanking a lot better than Komachi for this fight. (Likely due to her high resistances and nature resistance) I'm so glad to have her as tank, she really put in a lot of work before being ko'd unfortunately. Poisoning a lot things, using poison touch to counter attack, and using paralyzing incense (that was the biggest help). After Wriggle died I switched to Komachi and had Remi switched out by now with Scarlet Devil Mansion+Last Fortress+Majesty+Curse of Vlad Tepes and ready to spear this chipmunk, but then Komachi used Narrow Confines of Avici and inflicted death on the evil nut eater... which was completely unexpected and quite reliving, though I could have handled it just fine without it. It just really really shortened the annoying battle. Thank you based Komachi.
Yeah, I've been doing that for awhile. My goal is to get every to max out on gems before attempting the Strengthen Boss Rush (Strengthen Memorized Knowledge still gives me crap).
And yeah, the Evil Nuts Eater was one of the few Strengthen Bosses that were vulnerable to Death. I think one of the Wasps was the other one that was vulnerable to Death but my memory escapes me.
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Finally beat the post-game yesterday evening. I agree with Xarizzar from a while ago that while the Strengthen Final Boss requires higher numbers to beat, his strategy is far easier to figure out than that of Culex's and a few others
. So yeah, I'm done. 104 achievables. I'm already looking forward to my challenge run, exploring characters like Rinnosuke, Momiji, Ran, Sanae and others that I've immediately shoved aside for whatever reason.
Actually, I think I also argued that I needed higher levels for the Guardian of the Great Crystals
rather than the Strengthened Blade of Heaven's Gathering Clouds
. Still haven't tried to do that lvl 100 attempt though.
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If you mean her skill, Passive Philosopher's Stone, that's 70%. Something to note is that it does not cover spirit, dark, and physical because of her lacking the correct spell element and her affinity to those is poor as well and I seen plenty of def targeting multi-attack with those elements.
Actually, I wasn't referring to the skill as it is now. I was referring to how it could be improved so that Patchouli can survive one hit. I even quoted myself to show what said improvement to the skill would be.
Also, they could make it so that her "Passive Philosopher Stone" skill can work like this:
Skill Point Cost: 9
Max Level: 3
Effect: Whenever Patchouli uses a spell with an element, if an enemy attacks her with the same element as the one she used before, the damage received will be reduced by (SLv * 30)%. This effect can apply to up to 3 different elements at the same time, with the next newest element overwriting the oldest one in turn.
...hm. The more I think about it, the more that I want to rewrite it as "when Patchouli uses or is affected by a spell(including spells cast by allies), she gains a "Element Guard X" status, where X is the element of the spell that she used/was affected by. If an enemy attacks Patchouli with the same element as said "Element Guard", the damage received will be reduced by (SLv * 30)%. Patchouli can have up to three different "Element Guard" status at the same time(and they must be different, no having two of the same element), with the next newest element overwriting the oldest one in turn", so you can have allies cast a spell on her, and the element of said spell would trigger it, creating a defense for her before an enemy can flatten her. The reason that I would call for a 90% reduction in damage is because she's too squishy to not be in need of this sort of defense, and 10% can still be lethal via damage if her defenses aren't built up enough. Plus, she has terrible ailment resistance, so that will still be something to watch out for when using her.
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Streaming a bit of my speedrun progress now at http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman. Feel free to come in and give advice/support.
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Wow, I originally thought the max hp cutting boss was the worst thing but oh my god I hate this strengthen mirror at floor 20. You can barely damage it and it has high resistances on top of it and it does loads of damage back at you. You can debuff it but I'm having an issue in actually damaging it. Any ideas I could do before I throw my laptop out the window. Like I looked at my old save and realized it has a little less resistance to physical but is there any main strategy to this thing or is it time to play the buff and debuff game and hope enemy rng doesnt destroy me.
Edit: Nevermind I beat it with the power of GAMBLER YUUGI being buffed and stuff. Also debuffing the enemy
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Finished streaming. I didn't do too much though. Mostly just fighting Kracken, Blue Orchid, and Tenshi. Also Iku, but I'll get to that.
Kracken is pretty easy. Any damage it could of done is gone since I beat Hina and explored 6F.
Blue Orchid on the other hand...well it can't really kill me, but I have trouble killing him. Took a while before I could sufficiently hurt him.
Tenshi is...well I didn't bother trying to get any item drops. It's just a matter of not wasting time.
Shortly after I fought Mokou to get Reisen. Note to self: Don't kill Mokou before she resurrects. I nearly Game Over'd but Komachi managed to survive. Went through 7F to realize I can't really stand up to the normal battles. Went straight to 8F, got Relay for Iku grabbed 2 items(Hero Medal and Big Bang Wagonizer) before setting up for Iku.
Now Iku....I need to grind a bit now. I keep getting to around the halfway point thanks to Wriggle's poison, but after she buffs herself, she just overpowers me. And it doesn't help that she has decent evasion too. Even Parsee with Healer stacking Mind couldn't survive(She has less than 400 HP. Iku did over 700).
So pretty much I need to grind and grab some items. I might have to fight the Wind Stone to get the +100 Wind Resistance item. Interestingly enough though, Wriggle alone can probably solo this fight with a Mind Tank setup + Healer. I just need to be able to survive past the halfway point.
So yeah. Party is around 19-21 for a Challenge Level 29 boss, so I'm going to hit around 24 first before reattempting anymore fights.
I also lazied my notes in the middle of the stream, so I need to re-type them up for everything I did today.
Now pardon me, DFO is calling my name.
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just touched 19f and am going to zizz-land now. note that the wiki lies about the 18f boss, forward time can res its allies even if only one is defeated...Despite that little hiccup, I killed it on my first attempt at an even greater self-imposed handicap than meeting the challenge level... my skill levels haven't been touched since 15f and are about 50-60 for stats that are good for my characters, others left at much lower, 1, or resistances which are I forget.. like 10-20 I think?
I'm trying to reach the 1m achievement before beating the game... practical or useful? nope, but I want to challenge myself for one, and 2, feel the "oomph" if and when I reach 1m and spend them all at once.. (heh heh heh). (I'm at 500k now btw, prob 550k-600k if I sold osme of the duplicate gear I got from 18f)
the trash on 18f was a total bish btw, maybec uz the skill point thing. haven't seen 19f trash yet.
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I did the 1m yen achievement after I am able to comfortably mash floor 20b mini-boss mooks (and also because I didn't had Super Kappa during the time). Floor 19 is rather nasty to grind at due to those very speedy tops hitting your troops hard. That and I got my first game-over when i got triple Ether-flared by those floating "eyeballs" of light. Not even Komachi was left standing after that.
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I'm pretty new at this game (just played a month ago) and I'm still confused with organizing stat of each members. Is there anyone who mind to give me a description for that (ex: What should I do for Reimu? Maximizing it's HP, MAG or SPD?)?
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Characters who play more of a supporting role should concentrate on their defensive stat, either DEF or MND (since you can freely move your levelup bonuses, which one isn't too important) and eventually you might consider putting a few of the points into HP since the return might start looking good. At the start of the game you might want almost everyone to invest in MAG or ATK since you have limited party members and -need- offense, though. Keep in mind healing spells mostly use ATK+MAG combined, but a few (I think Reimu's and Minoriko's) only use MAG, so if you're not healing enough...
Late in the game, in random battles, you might decide there's no choice but to put a lot of levels in speed so enemies don't all go before you and destroy your party. I just hit 19f and the randoms are getting overwhelming.
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I'm pretty new at this game (just played a month ago) and I'm still confused with organizing stat of each members. Is there anyone who mind to give me a description for that (ex: What should I do for Reimu? Maximizing it's HP, MAG or SPD?)?
Depending on the character, someone like Reimu should be investing most of her level bonus points into her HP, MND, and DEF, and the rest being in MAG/SPD.
Someone like Minoriko should probably invest more in SPD because Minoriko is quite fast, but of course you invest in your defensive stats first.
Lot2 is quite flexible with how you build a character, so you might wanna try out somethings. (Beware, you have a finite amount of Tome of Reincarnations in this game, so if you wanna test things you might not want to save, or at least create a second save file.) Of course you don't wanna try out some blatantly stupid things like Warrior Marisa, or Guardian Patchy (lol).
Also @ Serela, I thought all of Reimu's spells were composite.
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(Beware, you have a finite amount of Tome of Reincarnations in this game, so if you wanna test things you might not want to save, or at least create a second save file.)
Also @ Serela, I thought all of Reimu's spells were composite.
Reimu's attacks are composite, but I think her heal might be magic-only. It'd probably be clear if I just READ IT'S DESCRIPTION but I'm lazy.
You can infinitely reassign skill points and levelup bonuses for free, so you can mess with builds. You can't reassign the special stat boost gems, training manuals, or library-bought levels without using a Tome of Reincarnation, but if you buy 10~20 library levels in stats early in the game the money lost is basically nothing later on anyway.
Keep in mind you can either make a character do damage, OR make it be a tank. You can make offense characters durable, and it's a good idea, but if you want to actually make them a tank/support then later in the game (which becomes necessary for characters whose job isn't attacking) this means they -will- deal 0~1 damage, so spreading out levelup bonuses all over the place isn't a good idea. It probably works alright early in the game, but.
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Doing a bit more progress now. Grabbing some items, leveling up a bit, and gonna try to beat Iku now.
http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman/
Edit:
Finished. I didn't need to do much grinding at all actually, just get some more items I missed on Floor 7 and 8. Also fought the Wind Crystal for the Card Ruler of the Heavens so I can have more Wind Resistance. Wriggle was able to tank and survive nicely. Barely survived though when Iku started using her physical attack, but Poison helped secure the kill.
Made a return trip to 2F and 3F to kill the FOEs after, then went to 4 and 5 to fight the Serpents and Siren. Both are beatable before Iku I'm sure, and I think their drops may be good(Didn't get them though, may farm them in the future).
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Depending on the character, someone like Reimu should be investing most of her level bonus points into her HP, MND, and DEF, and the rest being in MAG/SPD.
Someone like Minoriko should probably invest more in SPD because Minoriko is quite fast, but of course you invest in your defensive stats first.
Lot2 is quite flexible with how you build a character, so you might wanna try out somethings. (Beware, you have a finite amount of Tome of Reincarnations in this game, so if you wanna test things you might not want to save, or at least create a second save file.) Of course you don't wanna try out some blatantly stupid things like Warrior Marisa, or Guardian Patchy (lol). .
I'm confused while organizing characters with mid-high stats (like Byakuren, she has versatile stats, but I don't know what to do) and also Support. :|
And just asking, is it possible for us to complete level of all skills for all characters? (Except if the character learn Tomes for other skills)
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@ kiddo_san Those kind of characters, it's really up to you. I personally prefer her as a bulky offensive support, others may have her as a tanky support.
Also, by how much does resistances get lowered with Reisen's "intense vertigo"?
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I'm confused while organizing characters with mid-high stats (like Byakuren, she has versatile stats, but I don't know what to do) and also Support. :|
And just asking, is it possible for us to complete level of all skills for all characters? (Except if the character learn Tomes for other skills)
Either pick to focus on her support or for using her as an attacker. If she's support, ignore her atk/mag stats (her passives to buff them are still useful due to her buff-copy moves)
What to do if you're going to use her as a bulky attacker is harder since she still enjoys her passable durability, but you need to at least heavily favor her ATK or MAG (only pick one! Even if she has a composite attack, her non-composite skills will be terrible if you don't mostly choose one or the other with levelup bonuses) if she's going to do enough damage to be worth using offensively.
Anyway, there is no level cap, so yes, eventually you can fully level all skills. I think the current postgame content ends somewhere around lv200, but I haven't done it myself, and the expansion will take things further. Still, I don't think anyone other than Rinnosuke and Byakuren can spend that many points if you tried.
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part of how you should spec your characters also depends on your other characters that you use too. For example, IMO there should be no doubt that you should spec remi for def/mnd if you have absolutely no tanky characters except maybe 1 single tank in your entire group...but if you have several like a tank, reimu, byakuren, kanako, etc...then there's not much need, so you may want to consider atk-remi instead.
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I'm confused while organizing characters with mid-high stats (like Byakuren, she has versatile stats, but I don't know what to do) and also Support. :|
It's based on how you want to balance your team, with healers, buffers, debuffers, tanks, and attackers. For one thing, you're definitely going to need a pure tank of some sort or multiple bulky characters to compensate for the lack of a tank. Some would argue that you need more bulk than that, but that's really up to the player's play style.
But following this, if the need for bulk, survivability, and buffing is already satisfied, then someone like Byakuren should probably be built like ZXNova's Byakuren (Bulky Offensive Support). This would let her deal damage as well as apply the myriad of debuffs and statuses that her offensive spells come with.
In case anyone's wondering, (I highly doubt people can't figure this out if they were actually wondering but anyway) in terms of survivability:
Tank > Tanky >= Bulky > Frail / Glass Cannon
(Tanky is greater than or equal to Bulky, since I'm sure some people use the terms interchangeably to mean the same thing).
I really have trouble describing my thought process on the fly, unless asked about a specific aspect of it, since most of this team stuff building comes naturally to me. I'll never say that my team or any team for that matter is the best, since it also largely depends on the player's play style.
There are some instances where a player's play style makes the game more difficult than it needs to be (like Ghaleon's policy of not swapping out his chosen 12 just for a specific boss fight) but that's their choice since they get more enjoyment out of the game for whatever reason (like getting more challenge for example). I myself don't like switching up my characters too much after deciding on a team of 12, unless I felt like a different character can accomplish the role I wanted better.
An example in my case would be me swapping out Satori, which I loved dearly for her spellcard copying, for Renko because at the point of the game I was in, Satori was not able to deal damage to a satisfactory amount. She was mostly just a second source of Reimu's Hakurei Barrier / Exorcising Border without the defensive stats Reimu had. Renko's buff however, was just as strong as Reimu's Hakurei Barrier defensively but it also buffed both ATK and MAG. This meant I could leave the group buffing to Renko while saving Reimu just for the group heal, which means I don't have to risk losing two characters when things get hairy and I need to heal.
I started with 5 Support / Tank characters and 7 Attacking characters and slowly transitioned into the team I have now which consists of 8 Support / Tank characters and 4 Attacking characters. This was due to the fact that I felt like I needed more and more survivability as I neared end game, so I added some bulkier characters / rearranged some from an attacking role to a supporting role as I went on.
And just asking, is it possible for us to complete level of all skills for all characters? (Except if the character learn Tomes for other skills)
Yes, you can max all skills for all characters. It just depends on the characters skill set as for when you can max everything. Some characters have more costly skills / more skills than others so the level at which they can have max everything differs. For example, Alice needs to be level 178 to max all her base skills without the use of Training Manuals.
(She was the one that was the easiest for me to count up since I basically maxed everything I wanted on her base skills. This is why I gave her Transcendent subclass [which needs 46 points to max] to make use of her excess skill points that I wasn't using.)
This is obviously quite far into the game so before you reach that point, you should be prioritizing the skills the mean the most to you. Outside of support characters, I generally never level up the character's spells until I've gotten all the passives that I want. I know that leveling up most attacking skills would increase damage output, but I don't know by how much, so I can't reasonably weigh how much leveling up that attacking skill is worth compared to leveling up a passive.
On a separate note, I like how two simple questions has me going off on tangents about various topics, some of which aren't even necessary in answering the OP's question.
Also on a separate note, I think the Palace of Earth Spirits Synergy group is highly awkward. None of the characters in the group are really suited to be built for staying power, so its hard trying to make use of their synergy passive.
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Speaking of Synergy abilities, I'm trying to think if any would even be worth investing in. So far only ones I can make use of at the moment is Team 9 and Together with Mokou/Keine, and I don't use the partner characters for those.
I'm actually wondering if I'm ignoring some possible potential in my team as well...Hmm.
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Speaking of Synergy abilities, I'm trying to think if any would even be worth investing in.
Most of them are good if you use at least 3 members involved in the team, although it's true that Earth Spirits is hard since none of them are exactly tanky. It's a flat bonus to your stats, so if you were at 100% buffs for example, a 16% bonus (most teams give 16% for one partner out) means you'd have 32% higher stats from your base; and that's really significant when it comes to defense and speed.
Team 9 is crazy but Wriggle is the only significantly durable member. If you get them out though, the sheer bonus size itself probably adds a lot to their survival. Cirno's self-buff isn't so useless after all.
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I've never been so confused before while playing a game :|
But thanks all for the advices!
I saw a pict in a thread about LoT2 which displayed the 6th page of Sub Equipment; is it true? I checked my game and wiki, and all said it's only 5 page for Sub Equipment :|
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Some other synergy team I notice is SDM with (Meiling, Remi, or Sakuya, with Patchy or Flan coming in for hit and run), Sealing Club with (Renko and Maribel, both whom aren't slacking in survivability and Renko can almost be Komachi-like without the lacking of def/mind), and (Yakumo Family with Yukari and Ran with Chen's hit and run).
The main downside with synergy group is if one dies or is forced to switch out, the others are weakened. Personally, I mostly invest in Synergy skill is if I notice I use said group more often.
Back to the subject. One final thing you should note is subclasses complimenting or making up something that you are lacking. For example, if you have a somewhat lack of heals in your group and you have someone Remi or Komachi on the field, you can opt to make them a healer subclass as even when built defensively, they still have pretty good attack with some investment so they can keep someone, most likely themselves, in good shape. On the flipside, Hong Meiling, as a tank, can be defender to strengthen her ability as a tank by making her more durable as well as draw aggro from the enemies.
It's a lot to take in so may want to start simple first and have your attackers do damage with some HP, your support going full survivability and your glass cannnons go all damage (you should switch them out before the enemy gets a turn).
And yeah there is a 6th page sub-equipment but the items are untranslated.
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The 6th page of sub-equipment only shows up after you beat the final boss, it's all postgame-level equipment.
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I really have a thing for bulky attacks, so the way I built my Meiling is as a tanky attacker healer thingy. Cause her heals scale with her attack, you can invest a lot more into her attack while also investing a bit in her defenses. Then when you get buffs on her, then she becomes a fairly decent attacker, especially with Warrior subclass. I invested a lot in Meiling and made her really good.
Also, imo, of all the teams with synergy passives, the most viable one is probably the Yakumo Family/Eientei/Moriya Crew. Three people, one of them is really tanky, and has a lot of potential. Yakumo Family more so than Eientei/Moriya Crew imo. Some synergy passives don't make much sense to me like the Iku+Tenshi one. Really, shouldn't the buffs received be switched around? The Mokou+Keine passive makes sense I guess. Finally, the SDM passive seems a bit hard to work around, but seems overall doable. (You may have to make Remi more tanky)
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Out of all the Synergy groups the Yakumo Family is unarguably the strongest. They not only have their Synergy Skill like the other groups but Ran and Chen have specific Synergy with Ran being capable of buffing Chen to almost maximum by concentrating once and Yukari's "Shikigami Ran Yakumo+" becoming ridiculously strong if all three are on the field.
All of this stacks and makes them able to wreck any boss prior to post game that doesn't heavily resist physical in a few turns once you've got the setup (and maybe Yuugi with her increasing general physical damage dealt).
In LoT1 most made Yukari rather tanky/bulky with her providing the turn-manipulation support and that mindset seemed to have carried over to LoT2 (at least until it got heavily nerfed) but her offense is nothing to laugh at and she doesn't even become too frail while taking heavy chunks out of bosses and providing good trash clear.
The other ones are nice and can work but do not offer any further synergy apart from the standard skill.
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Uuurrgggghhhh. Going from 19f to 20f is a difficult transition. If you die on 20f, you have to redo all the switches on 19f to manage to get back there... and the relay points on 20f are really far away, and the randoms are scary, plus if a Truth-Seeing Eye appears you just game overed, no questions asked.
Whyyyyy.
There's also the part where, even though I only have the other half of 20f left to explore, I'm 10~15 levels below the challenge level for the boss. Ouch. I'm not leveling up particularly fast and it'll only get slower.
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Uuurrgggghhhh. Going from 19f to 20f is a difficult transition. If you die on 20f, you have to redo all the switches on 19f to manage to get back there... and the relay points on 20f are really far away, and the randoms are scary, plus if a Truth-Seeing Eye appears you just game overed, no questions asked.
Whyyyyy.
There's also the part where, even though I only have the other half of 20f left to explore, I'm 10~15 levels below the challenge level for the boss. Ouch. I'm not leveling up particularly fast and it'll only get slower.
Look this is what I did. I got chen and aya and use them as to run away till I got to both check points at floor 20. like dont have both out at the same time but use aya first for currentied runs and Chen needs to be fast and and as evasive as possible. This is all I can say to make things a little bit easier now if you excuse me I'm gonna look and laugh at my old save data for the amount of grinding I did to get past 249 for everyone.
Edit: btw put alot tp on them but that is probably a given.
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I did a similar thing to Prinny, except by that time I had invested a lot of gold into Eiki/Byakuren, and could OHKO the Ether Flare eye thingy. So I basically had no fear at that point (though those speed drills were really annoying).
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I ended up just clearing it out the normal way (Nitori+Kasen's nature alltargets with a buff from Enhancer Sakuya cleared out most randoms, guardians of heaven are an insta-run though) and now the only irritating part is grinding up like 15 levels. I haven't done grinding in this game until now! I did 5 of them and figured I'd do more later.
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Recently beat the Strengthen Boss Rush. I'm still pissed that I had to throw away 3 characters due to Strengthen Memorized Knowledge, but what I was more pissed about (and completely forgot about) was how annoying the Strengthen Mirror and Strengthen Magatama are. The Mirror was especially annoying, as it managed to take out most of my team. At one point, I was left with just Byakuren, Minoriko, Renko and Marisa, and was forced to charge up Master Sparks to deal any sort of damage. Due to a mistake, Byakuren got knocked out in the midst of the Master Spark charging and I seriously thought I was going to have to redo the entire boss rush, but somehow, Renko was able to tank well enough in her place. Tried the Strengthen Final Boss. Once I lost Komachi to a Black Universe > Some other attack, I was just desperately struggling against the inevitable. I lacked my dedicated tank and one by one, everyone just got whittled down by the max HP attack.
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OK 14f post disk boss isn't too bad as it is
mostly a damage race before that thing kills off all of your members one by one with an attack that will kill anyone guarantee (6 digit dark damage and can DEATH Yuyuko herself).
However, floor 16 I did not expect to end up fighting Culex
of all people.
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Yeah, this 19f trash when I haven't spent a skillpoint for 5 floors is purdy brutal....hearing that reaching 20f wont be safe is scary. qq.
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I have a question.
(http://i.imgur.com/EmrnD7B.png?1)
The bottom item allows the user to deal 20% more damage and take 20% less damage. Would maintenance double that to 40%? Also would Transcendant stack additively or diminishingly?
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I have a question.
(http://i.imgur.com/EmrnD7B.png?1)
The bottom item allows the user to deal 20% more damage and take 20% less damage. Would maintenance double that to 40%? Also would Transcendant stack additively or diminishingly?
The item is called Crystal Charm, and yes, I believe that would be the case.
EDIT
I notice that Yuugi gets a huge damage buff from just gaining 10% more atk. So I use knock out in 3 steps on semi-foe tree with 12% bonus atk, does 83000~ damage. Next turn, she has 21% atk, does knock out in three steps again, now it's dealing 150000 damage. Geez Yuugi, blow stuff up much. So I'm guessing buffs would really benefit her then, huh.
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Finally got around starting Labyrinth 2~ Thank you for all the translation notes! I hope the project finishes all the way, like Labyrinth 1. :3
I started blind for a while to see how far I could get... only to get destroyed by the first FOE. :ohdear:
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Welcome to the land of Lot2. Where FOEs are scary mofos who make you cringe in your bed at night, and every enemy has a physical attack to kill your mages. Please enjoy your stay.
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Does anyone else utilize tactics that involve super-charging one character (ex. Nitori, Yuuka, Yukari, Aya) that their actions are a large contribution to your victories?
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Welp, I've taken the plunge into the 2nd labyrinth. So far I've made it into the 5th floor and oh my god what a pain in the face was Komachi. I think I was down to 2 characters when Youmu used her NTR spell to finish the fight. Tough times.
Somehow, back line MP recovery feels nerfed compared to LoT1. It's recovering MP once every time the ATB gauge fills, no?
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I'm not sure if it back-rank MP recovery is nerfed as more it is that you get much less max MP in comparison to spellcard cost than the previous game. And yes, each time a character has their action meter filled, they will recover MP equal to the MP recovery stat. Some characters has skills that allows them to recovery MP faster while in the back-rank.
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Does anyone else utilize tactics that involve super-charging one character (ex. Nitori, Yuuka, Yukari, Aya) that their actions are a large contribution to your victories?
Maybe (http://i.imgur.com/XP1VjLq.jpg) :derp:
The rest of my party is at 100/150 skilllvl and lvl50 for all resistances. :V
And MP regeneration while in the back line gets much better once you reach later stages of the game.
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Does anyone else utilize tactics that involve super-charging one character (ex. Nitori, Yuuka, Yukari, Aya) that their actions are a large contribution to your victories?
That's kind of my main strategy. I get Sanae and super charge Byakuren, then she passes on buffs to everyone else I feel would need the buffs. It also cause of this strategy that Meiling is a tanky attacker healer thingy. She really does some good damage with buffs, and mountain breaker already does some considerably good damage for a tank.
Depending on who I'm fightan, I will also go the debuff route as well. Get yo Hina or Reisen and start debuffing away. Debuff and super charge. I usually give my Meiling a Ribbon so she doesn't get affected by debuffs, Byakuren has very high debuff resist (also with the help of items), and Komachi... I have to give her debuff resistance. I usually just let her be and not worry about her gettin debuffed so much.
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I was actually further thru 19f than I thought... Actually I was mostly done it...didn't expect to reach the stairs and have nothin gelse to explore at only half of it explored. So yeah, got to 20f, and was doing ok for the most part, but then came across some all-seeing eye or something, which proceeded to oneshot my entire party before anyone could move (which as it so happens had my remi and patchy in the group at the time, which is my fastest (sans aya), AND my tankiest (mnd for patchy,composite for remi).
So I wasn't sure how close I was to the next beacon thing so I gave up and spent all 550k of my skillpoints....
19f trash is a total joke now lol, 20f wasn't much worse, came across another eye again, and killed IT before IT moved (and its companions), lawl. Just to emphasize how much spending my skillpoints mattered... my patchy went from 140 speed to 182 (I focused on upgrading everyone's speed and main attack stat first, now I'm working on hp and defenses for bosses).
I'm at the beacon now, and both of 19 and 20f are fully explored (before first boss), but I'm only level 80 and the boss is 87...the enemies don't even give nearly as much experience as they did in lot1 for 20f so this is gonna be awhile qq.
Is there a mini-boss only area with loaded exp before the final final boss like lot1? I kinda liked that.
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There is one right before the boss, just like in LoT1. Full of pseudo-bosses. They are much weaker this time around though.
I remember having some problems with a few of them in lot1 but not this time.
And the feeling of spending a huge amount of skillpoints at once is really nice indeed.
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I'm pretty... confused now.
I thought that recruiting Wriggle was enough to make Mokou appear next to the switch on 4F, but there's nothing there.
Does she not appear at all, if I pressed the switch before talking to Eirin on 2F?
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I'm pretty... confused now.
I thought that recruiting Wriggle was enough to make Mokou appear next to the switch on 4F, but there's nothing there.
Does she not appear at all, if I pressed the switch before talking to Eirin on 2F?
To recruit Mokou, you must first fight Kaguya. After you fight Kaguya (on floor 2 I think) Mokou should appear on the 4th floor.
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To recruit Mokou, you must first fight Kaguya. After you fight Kaguya (on floor 2 I think) Mokou should appear on the 4th floor.
Oh, but I did that back when I was finishing up that floor.
This is near where she should appear, no? (http://puu.sh/8UqIi.jpg)
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You must talk to Reisen on 3F
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Oh, that sorta fixed my problem. Many thanks!
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Uh, guys? Should we start a new LoT2 topic thingie, or is this one still not maxed out on space yet? (Sorry that that sounds strange, but I don't know how to phrase it...)
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I think it's at post #1000 where we start needing to make a new topic.
Anyway I just beat the mirror boss on 20f.. took 2 tries..haven't needed more than one try to beat a boss since the mirror/magatama combo earlier..
In any case, the first try I kept getting blasted by some kind of attack (didn't see the name) that seemed to nearly 1shot my physical and mental tanks alike...Then I saw the boss do it very early in the fight in my 2nd attempt and it hardly hit for anything. I'm wondering if the boss is like baal avatar in lot1 where it has a hidden strength increase as the fight goes on.
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I think it's at post #1000 where we start needing to make a new topic.
Anyway I just beat the mirror boss on 20f.. took 2 tries..haven't needed more than one try to beat a boss since the mirror/magatama combo earlier..
In any case, the first try I kept getting blasted by some kind of attack (didn't see the name) that seemed to nearly 1shot my physical and mental tanks alike...Then I saw the boss do it very early in the fight in my 2nd attempt and it hardly hit for anything. I'm wondering if the boss is like baal avatar in lot1 where it has a hidden strength increase as the fight goes on.
The woes of the mirror. Everyone always has a problem with mirror, but no one seems to have a prob with magatama.
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Magatama was worse than the mirror on 12f or whatever it was but yeah. total cake on 20f.
At final boss now...Seems like a luck fest tbh.. why? well it can ratsetsu fist the back, it does NOT need to reach phase 3 to do world shaking military rule...oh and it loves spamming great tree descends from heaven for me.. like half the time it does that effing move, and nope, I'm not completely immune to paralyze and death for my whole party, not to mention it 1shots half of them as well. That and it takes 0s from pretty much everyone in my party except those who cannot possibly survive a ratsetsu fist, which he just loves using on them even in the back.
That said, it also seems completely immune to attack/spd debuffs, but never ever resists mnd/def.. go figure... of course it uses fist on my debuffer too.
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Magatama was worse than the mirror on 12f or whatever it was but yeah. total cake on 20f.
At final boss now...Seems like a luck fest tbh.. why? well it can ratsetsu fist the back, it does NOT need to reach phase 3 to do world shaking military rule...oh and it loves spamming great tree descends from heaven for me.. like half the time it does that effing move, and nope, I'm not completely immune to paralyze and death for my whole party, not to mention it 1shots half of them as well. That and it takes 0s from pretty much everyone in my party except those who cannot possibly survive a ratsetsu fist, which he just loves using on them even in the back.
That said, it also seems completely immune to attack/spd debuffs, but never ever resists mnd/def.. go figure... of course it uses fist on my debuffer too.
It's vulnerable to SPD debuffs, but good luck trying to debuff it's ATK / MAG. I've never had it use Rasetsu Fist on any of my back row characters o.o
Great Tree spam is annoying as hell though as you've experienced. When I first beat it, Kaguya was the only person able to damage it so I just had her spam Swallow's Cowrie Shell while the rest of my front line were healer's and tanks that were immune to Death and Paralysis. Timing the Form Changes to pull this off took forever, as one bad Form Change basically forced me to restart the fight.
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Does anyone else utilize tactics that involve super-charging one character (ex. Nitori, Yuuka, Yukari, Aya) that their actions are a large contribution to your victories?
Pretty much. I have something like 1 main tank, Rinnosuke as a secondary tank, Aya, and then my damage dealer. Usually it goes something along the lines of Damage Dealer uses best attack, main tank switches them out, Rinnosuke brings them in, and repeat. Exceptions of course if a lot of MP is needed, like Master Spark or Super Scope 3D, where I wait for their MP to recover with Elixir of Mages.
Need to map out floor 9. But ugh...lazy...
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Need to map out floor 9. But ugh...lazy...
http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/133.html
View at your own risk.
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Strategy for High Magatama:Gambler Flandre, boss wastes almost all turns with scripted non-lethal moves
Strategy for High Mirror:Gambler Suwako, you actually have to have a line of MND tanks but who cares when you're doing a third of the boss's hp per strike
gambling glass cannons hitting weakness is el oh el
In other news from end-20F drops I officially have too many Wash Basin Sets to even use, I never thought this day would come.
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It's vulnerable to SPD debuffs, but good luck trying to debuff it's ATK / MAG. I've never had it use Rasetsu Fist on any of my back row characters o.o
Great Tree spam is annoying as hell though as you've experienced. When I first beat it, Kaguya was the only person able to damage it so I just had her spam Swallow's Cowrie Shell while the rest of my front line were healer's and tanks that were immune to Death and Paralysis. Timing the Form Changes to pull this off took forever, as one bad Form Change basically forced me to restart the fight.
I've actually had Ama no Murakumo Rasetsu Fist my back row. (Reimu, Hina, and Eirin a few times) and fortunately, they were able to survive (though almost barely in the case of Eirin). I gave Reimu and Hina a lot physical resistance so they lived just fine. I actually had no prob debuffing it with Hina, I managed to debuff it's ATK/MAG, Komachi was literally just a switcher character, while Meiling healed/cleric'd herself and others, while also doing a good amount of damage if I could manage to get an attack buff on her. Basically my main attackers for the fight were Hina (yes Hina), Reisen, and Kasen. I had Eiki and Flandre as back up (and would sometimes use them if I didn't feel like using Kasen or if Kasen was near death). Kept Marisa to spark the golems during the last phase, then went on a damage race to kill it fast cause 3rd phase is annoying as heck. I managed to kill the sword thanks to Kasen having guts (though I did still have a Flandre and Eiki in the back line, still ya know, guts OP)
And yes, Great Tree spam is very very annoying, even with ATK/MAG debuffs. I have to constantly switch Reimu back out to heal people back up, or switch Eirin out to heal Komachi.
And also, Magatama on 12th floor wasn't that bad either (at least for me). It was easy (well not easy) compared to mirror on the 12th floor. Due to the fact magatama can actually be damaged, and doesn't hit as hard.
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Oh, by the way.
The subclasses that buff your stats each turn will stack with Extra Attack. It's hilarious. Sorcerer Yuuka, combining it with Fight With A Formidible Foe (and keeping it up with Majesty, which I never paid attention to see if it stacks as well or not) will get her MAG maxed out all by herself ridiculously fast if you manage to proc Extra at all. Or you can go Monk for the all-around boosts, but Yuuka really needed some elemental variety so I didn't do that (Sakuya/Orin could consider it more)
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Oh, by the way.
The subclasses that buff your stats each turn will stack with Extra Attack. It's hilarious. Sorcerer Yuuka, combining it with Fight With A Formidible Foe (and keeping it up with Majesty, which I never paid attention to see if it stacks as well or not) will get her MAG maxed out all by herself ridiculously fast if you manage to proc Extra at all. Or you can go Monk for the all-around boosts, but Yuuka really needed some elemental variety so I didn't do that (Sakuya/Orin could consider it more)
Seeing as how high Yuuka's Attack is, I would consider monk. Hey, maybe someone could go Warrior Yuuka huh?
(That doesn't sound right at all)
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http://www54.atwiki.jp/thlabyroth2/pages/133.html
View at your own risk.
Not what I meant. I mean paths using the map from the wiki.
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Seeing as how high Yuuka's Attack is, I would consider monk. Hey, maybe someone could go Warrior Yuuka huh?
I never even thought about that, because Yuuka has a pointlessly competent Attack stat in LoT1.
Probably best to stick with a magic build, but yep, Yuuka would make a good user for Explosive Flame Sword or Leaning Iron Mountain. (I originally just said Monk just because of it's passive boosts, which would bring Yuuka to Byakuren tier selfbuffing when Extra Attack didn't even trigger) But yeah, just in general, with a little luck on Extra Attack and some investment into her defenses, Yuuka is crazy good, and subclasses can fix her monoelemental issues. Being able to switch to an atk build is just more amusing versatility :V
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blah, I think imma have to just totally rework my entire spec/gear for the final boss... just take away all level up bonuses to attack stats and pour them on defenses for all my characters who 0 the boss even with full buffs (which is like 9 out of 12), as well as completely re-arrange my gear on all my characters. I hate doing this cuz it's a pain to figure out how I like it for generall all-purpose use again (the gear more than the level up bonuses).
and I've tried like 20 times to debuff the boss' speed, has yet to work once. def/mnd can consistently get debuffed but nothing else, but even def/mnd debuffing seems pointless since boss just spams his stupid ground shaking military cheat codes.
Also someone said that nitori got nerfed from lot1, I disagree. I think she's even more broken now =/. For now her self buff is actually worth using, her passives are some of the best, and 3d cannon seems even more powerful than megawatt cannon. It often does more than double the damage with just 50% buffs over a marisa 100% mag buffed full mp master spark assuming neutral to fire. Plus due to maint, she isn't even squishy anymore... she's not really tanky either, but not squish, just kinda... not bad tier (for both def and mnd mind you, her hp don't suck either).
I guess yeah I can do the boss if I try the throw all my eggs in the nitori/rumia/kosasa basket and build everyone else for def/spd (cept marisa who will master spark the adds).
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blah, I think imma have to just totally rework my entire spec/gear for the final boss... just take away all level up bonuses to attack stats and pour them on defenses for all my characters who 0 the boss even with full buffs (which is like 9 out of 12), as well as completely re-arrange my gear on all my characters. I hate doing this cuz it's a pain to figure out how I like it for generall all-purpose use again (the gear more than the level up bonuses).
and I've tried like 20 times to debuff the boss' speed, has yet to work once. def/mnd can consistently get debuffed but nothing else, but even def/mnd debuffing seems pointless since boss just spams his stupid ground shaking military cheat codes.
Also someone said that nitori got nerfed from lot1, I disagree. I think she's even more broken now =/. For now her self buff is actually worth using, her passives are some of the best, and 3d cannon seems even more powerful than megawatt cannon. It often does more than double the damage with just 50% buffs over a marisa 100% mag buffed full mp master spark assuming neutral to fire. Plus due to maint, she isn't even squishy anymore... she's not really tanky either, but not squish, just kinda... not bad tier (for both def and mnd mind you, her hp don't suck either).
I guess yeah I can do the boss if I try the throw all my eggs in the nitori/rumia/kosasa basket and build everyone else for def/spd (cept marisa who will master spark the adds).
I think you're trying to say bulky attacker.
Yeah, I had to do the same thing. Rearrange all my items for the bosses. I basically had to give items with death resistance to the people who were going to be staying out a lot of the time. I had to sacrifice some tankiness too, was worth it though. Cause the spamming of that death attack man, so annoying.
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Nitori's specialty for becoming tanky IMO is using stuff like Star of Elendil and Grand Master Breaker to pump up all of her affinities and resistances to silly amounts (whilst still supporting her normal stats to a passable level) If you actually devoted to it, she could probably be amusingly durable in a full ATK build (First Aid Kit, Megasphere, 2 Grand Master Breaker), but since Super Scope takes so much mp anyway... may as well let some others share in that valuable equipment. I'm going to be so smug with Renko's Maintennance once I get her though.
but even def/mnd debuffing seems pointless since boss just spams his stupid ground shaking military cheat codes.
Man I wish I actually used anyone who had "Eyes that Perceive Reality" like Momiji or Satori. I'm looking forward to trying out Maribel in postgame though with her hilarious version of it.
I'm currently at the "grind up for the final boss" stage before I actually take it on, but I'll be having to deal with it soon. Maybe I can Flancheese it though, since it's weak to dark...?
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I had to do some admustment for the final boss myself but not as much as you did. Mostly readjusting Aya to a tankier build (50% HP/speed) and give her spirit resist so she can survive to throw out more free turns and MP, mostly to give Reimu free turns to Great Incantation -> Exorcising Border. A funny thing is that Nitori end up being ridicuously tanky when I got to him to the point where I put her on the left most side, sparing my needing a tank that doesn't has high damage and giving me room for more bulky supports, mostly a debuff immune Byakuren and Hina combo ) to skew the stats in my favor; while I did manage to debuff att/mag/sped once, the bastard used World Shaking Militlary Rule two turns afterwards. It helps that Nitori having an Orb of Earthin so that she reaches max MP in one single charge; 36 Mp per concentration is nothing to sneeze about especially when overheating 3d cannon comes into play eating much of it.
The side danger with this strategy is that if the battle takes too long, the amount of MP needed for 3d gun will exceed Nitori's max MP and you will need to switch her around to reset Overheat. On the otherhand, if you want to supercharge Overheat fast, just use the attack command which adds to the Overheat counter (bug?).
And I believe that her nuke did get nerfed formula-wise but Nitori herself got a huge buff due to her skills. Before it was Nitori with so-so stats with ridiculous damage formula, now it is excellent Nitori with great damage formula. The only problem is that Super-Kappa doesn't come into play until you start getting strong equipments.
On another topic, I had thought about making Flan Warrior to make use of her excellent att for safe options for her while perhaps being able to stay in the field to large HP. Then I take a look at her mind stat, ouch. OK no problem, I will try to make it up with element affinity. Then I take a look at her 4 huge holes in her elemental defense, damn it!
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On another topic, I had thought about making Flan Warrior to make use of her excellent att for safe options for her while perhaps being able to stay in the field to large HP. Then I take a look at her mind stat, ouch. OK no problem, I will try to make it up with element affinity. Then I take a look at her 4 huge holes in her elemental defense, damn it!
I'm not so sure about that. Warrior seems like a subclass meant for people who would be staying in most of the time. And well, Flandre is kind of a hit and run character. Although she has a butt load of HP, I really don't believe she'll be able to utilize Warrior to her full potential. She benefits a lot more from Gambler.
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I wouldn't say warrior favors people who stay out given its 10% damage bonus when hp is full feature.
monk is more stayey imo since they self buff and heal over time.
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I wouldn't say warrior favors people who stay out given its 10% damage bonus when hp is full feature.
monk is more stayey imo since they self buff and heal over time.
So you're saying because of that one skill that comes with warrior it's not a stay in subclass? I really don't think that's the case at all. After all, there's another skill that buffs your attack every turn if you attacked an enemy the last turn. So wouldn't that imply staying in? Not to mention Warrior increases HP, TP, ATK, and DEF. So wouldn't you think it's a subclass for an stay in attacker?
Monk is more of a stay in subclass yeah, but Warrior also seems to be for those who stay in too.
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I'm not so sure about that. Warrior seems like a subclass meant for people who would be staying in most of the time. And well, Flandre is kind of a hit and run character. Although she has a butt load of HP, I really don't believe she'll be able to utilize Warrior to her full potential. She benefits a lot more from Gambler.
Unfortunately, that would mean that the "Vampiric Wrath" skill would be rendered useless. And I have to ask at this point: why does Flandre, of all people, have a skill like that? I could think of a much better skill for her, truth be told. I forget what the name of it is, but Yuugi had a skill that increased her attack power the less health she had, so why can't Flandre have something like that? That would have some synergy with her "Starbow Break" spell, since she can lower her own health and thus increase her strength with each strike. It would be risky, but it would make more sense than "Vampiric Wrath" does now(Hell, you could call the "Less HP = More Damage to Enemy" skill the name "Vampiric Wrath" when it's on Flandre, and it would make perfect sense).
Monk is more of a stay in subclass yeah, but Warrior also seems to be for those who stay in too.
Personally, I would think that Monk is for those who want have more flexibility in whether said character is to stay in or will swap out, given its emphasis on speed and accuracy. You can go either way with it.
Quick question: how many bosses are resistant to Cold element spells, as compared to the other elements that said bosses could possibly resist? Because since Cold element spells are the hardest to get in the game(other than the few characters who have it naturally, you can only get such a thing from the Toxicologist subclass(one of the reasons why I sing more than a few praises about it)), so...
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And I have to ask at this point: why does Flandre, of all people, have a skill like that? I could think of a much better skill for her, truth be told. I forget what the name of it is, but
I don't know, because it's extremely unlikely she'd ever survive such an attack.
Anyway, the entire reason someone equated Warrior to Stay In Flandre is because it gives her a good attack that doesn't kill your ATB bar or your HP count or anything like that, like Flandre's normal skillset. Warrior does not benefit staying in to any significant degree; 8% attack buff after attacking is just as good on someone you're switching out after each attack. It's possibly better since it's harder to buff someone who's rarely out.
But, anyway, Flandre really is best suited to Gambler. She's unlikely to survive most attacks unless she evades them in the first place, and doubled damage from the subclass is more than worth the doubled mp cost. Many bosses can be slaughtered with her in this kind of build.
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The reason why I was thinking of utlizing warrior as a possible stay-in feature is because of her large HP pool and total affinity, but turns out those affinities are highly specialized with her two weakest causing her to take triple damage unless she has a 2 Title of Grand Master Breakers and a Crystal Charm (which I prefer to give to Nitori). Also vampiric wrath requires Flan to get hit by something that she is weak against, the same ones that she has !!!32!!! elemental affinity in two areas (64 is the 3rd and 4th lowest).
While Warrior gives more survivability, one also has to consider the benefit both of them gives. Monk is notably to simply shorten attacks cooldown in both speed and percentage reduction and accuracy can't exactly be ignored if you have a spellcard that has crap accuracy such as KO in 3 steps or Throwing Ame-no-Tajikarao, and while warrior gives tankier stats, it also benefits some that gets switch out regardless due to delay post time being 0 (Last Judgement).
On another topic again, does anyone know a way how to empty a party slot when changing your party in Gensoyko? I want to do some test with one character and the time required to have other characters use concentrate so not to mess it up increases testing time required.
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On another topic again, does anyone know a way how to empty a party slot when changing your party in Gensoyko? I want to do some test with one character and the time required to have other characters use concentrate so not to mess it up increases testing time required.
Use the A key when at the part where you pick who to switch with, and it will remove the character and give you an empty slot
I wonder how much accuracy Monk actually gives?
Anyway, Flandre's mnd is tissue-tier even if her fix her affinities, so trying to make her live is a lost cause. She still wouldn't be anywhere near durable if you made her reliably able to take a hit, so there's not much of a point- the damage reward from going full glass cannon instead is humongous.
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So you're saying because of that one skill that comes with warrior it's not a stay in subclass?
No, I said I wouldn't say that it IS a stay in subclass...I mean I don't really think whether a character is "stay in" or not is the major determining factor in which it should be made a warrior or not.
Anyway beat boss using the all defense but my 3 people who can hit for more than 0 strategy...I dunno.. given how long the boss took to kill, it felt kinda underwhelming. I just don't like that playstyle, kinda felt like a puzzle/gimmick boss when it's done via centering your entire strategy around so few characters.
Boss took extra extra long too cuz patchy was one of my characters who I'd swap in to take a hit (cuz she takes 0s from virtually everything that boss has other than ratsetsu fist and that eat your mp for hp thing...and it's basic attack but I didn't use her for phase 1)...and well, boss ate all her mp and healed itself for effing 280k.. sigh, there goes 20 minutes. Did that to alice too. Fortunately because she's my hexer her mp wasn't full, but boss still healed for like 120k.
Is there a handy-dandy english guide for how to get past each rock? the one in the mid east of 20f for example, jpn wiki translates it to something like "discover 88 species"..which I took to mean find 88 different monsters in your enemy database thing, but I had like 94 or something (not counting foes and bosses too) and it still barred my path.. Then there's the ones that say something about a Tough spirit must be defeated first...I'd assume that's the final boss itself but I thought those 2 rocks at the bottom of 9f (or was it 12f?) required that.
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I wonder how much accuracy Monk actually gives?
12 Accuracy.
Cheat engine showed me everyone starts with 100 Accuracy. Putting Monk on increased to 112 so yeah.
Edit: On that note, Strategist is also 12.
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oh it's 88 achievements on the 20th floor thing.. do the ones at 94+ count? not sure cuz it's shaded differently.
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I'm ashamed to admit that it took me 15 retries to defeat Hina, and only on the last one it ocurred to me that MAAAAYBE, Parsee would be pretty much perfect for the fight. Why did I take so long?
On the other hand, quick question. Are all of Patchy's stones weak to DRK (and TRR by the way)? Because Kasen+Parsee really did short work out of the Water one.
Oh! I also got my first Awakening stone, and rushed to give it to Marisa. By now she kinda needs it, since Nitori's constantly outdamaging her and that shit ain't fly.
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I'm ashamed to admit that it took me 15 retries to defeat Hina, and only on the last one it ocurred to me that MAAAAYBE, Parsee would be pretty much perfect for the fight. Why did I take so long?
On the other hand, quick question. Are all of Patchy's stones weak to DRK (and TRR by the way)? Because Kasen+Parsee really did short work out of the Water one.
Oh! I also got my first Awakening stone, and rushed to give it to Marisa. By now she kinda needs it, since Nitori's constantly outdamaging her and that shit ain't fly.
Something to note is vs Hina is that you should avoid putting her at negative stat with debuff or she will buff herself severely next turn. The other thing is that terror, silence, and heavy also causes her to buff herself and rmove said ailments, You will find these factors true with Hina as a player character too as she thrives will them especially debuffs.
Not sure if they the phiolsopher stones ware weak to darkness, but they were not hard and I just use the element opposite to them to win.
Parsee is pretty much relegated to tank duty as Hina is resistant to dark but her immunity to debuff and high mind allows her to sit in front and switch. As for weakness, She is weak to spirit and neutral to everything else not mention and only Klomachi and Reimu could use those attacks (with the latter not really best for damage role).
Severeal people here mention that Marisa's Master Spark seems to fall off too quickly; in cintrast, Nitori seems to be a staple source of damage especially late game.
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Yeah i used marisa from start to finish in my playthru and master spark was extremely underwhelming. And weould often hi for 0 on tanky bosses. 3d cannon would always outdo it by heaps, uses less mp too, and without iverheat.
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Something strange happened in the NG+ run that I started today. When I first loaded the save I made with it, I gained achievements number 97 and 98, the ones you get for defeating the bosses for
recruiting Maribel and Renko
.
To anyone who's beaten postgame and started NG+: Has that happened to you as well? It makes me wonder if those bosses will actually be there once I'm that far into the game :wat:.
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I started ng+ and did not get that achievement, note I never even did those bosses in my original game yet. I imagine you have?
I've noticed that recruitment events are still around in general despite having the characters in my party (like needing 3 manga meat for rumia). Was there some kind of penalty or goody I'm going to miss out if I don't bother with some of them (ones involving BP basically).
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I got those achievements when I started a NG+ and already beat the respective bosses.
You need to recruit some characters such as Youmu to proceed. Even if you already have her in her party you cannot get past the ice rock on F1 for example. (At least I couldn't). Characters that are needed to pass certain challenge rocks (e.g. Minoriko) do not need to be recruited again.
One thing I've noticed about Flan (whom I've never used in both 1 & 2 but randomly rolled into my last slot since I couldn't decide whom to choose from the ones I've not used yet :V) is that she absolutely wrecks everything on the early floors.
She two shot Youmu on lvl4 without targeting a weakness,
was capable of taking out most of the Hp of that FOE on floor 2 right after that
and where some characters dealt 2 digit damage she dished out more than a thousand against trash mobs.
Feels quite silly.
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Yeah i used marisa from start to finish in my playthru and master spark was extremely underwhelming. And weould often hi for 0 on tanky bosses. 3d cannon would always outdo it by heaps, uses less mp too, and without iverheat.
Well imo, Marisa needs sorcerer class. Also, once you give her Arm Twisting, her damage should be a lot better. One thing I don't like is the way Sudden Impulse sounds, I mean, I haven't leveled it up, but the whole idea of "more damage, but less consistent" just bothers me. How good is this skill anyway?
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Well imo, Marisa needs sorcerer class. Also, once you give her Arm Twisting, her damage should be a lot better. One thing I don't like is the way Sudden Impulse sounds, I mean, I haven't leveled it up, but the whole idea of "more damage, but less consistent" just bothers me. How good is this skill anyway?
Arm twisting was the first thing i got her. Sudden impulse sounded unimpressive for me too so didnt get. And she was a sorcerer.
I found that her magic missle was pretty decent but master spark just didnt have damage that justified its cost and delay over other power numes like 3d cannon, koi3, etc... Though slash of eternity was even more underwhelming. I dumped youmu wuite early to know how it fAred late game though.
Also patchy for whatever reason seemed to go from suck to not bad at the end. She never even got her subclass for me. Not sure what caused it. Maybe he spells got alot more oomph from lvl4 to lvl5 than they did lvl1 to lvl4?
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Arm twisting was the first thing i got her. Sudden impulse sounded unimpressive for me too so didnt get. And she was a sorcerer.
I found that her magic missle was pretty decent but master spark just didnt have damage that justified its cost and delay over other power numes like 3d cannon, koi3, etc... Though slash of eternity was even more underwhelming. I dumped youmu wuite early to know how it fAred late game though.
Also patchy for whatever reason seemed to go from suck to not bad at the end. She never even got her subclass for me. Not sure what caused it. Maybe he spells got alot more oomph from lvl4 to lvl5 than they did lvl1 to lvl4?
I'm guessing that's the case. Her spells must start off with a weak formula, but leveling them makes the formula a whole lot stronger.
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*shudders*
LoT 1's 17F is evil. I beat 16F finally, but almost everything on 17 can and will wreck me frighteningly quickly.
Should I just try to dash to 18F, or grind on 16 for a bit til I can more reliably kill stuff on 17?
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A lot of people think 17f is really hard, I don't really understand. There's no treasure on that floor though, so it's fine to run past if you want to. I'd give you battle advice instead but it's been years since I played lot1, even though I played it like 3 times. I think one of the enemies was immune to magic so you used physical instead?
Just keep in mind 18f's randoms aren't exactly easy either. They're a different kind of hard though (no one ever really complained about them but so many people complained about 17f)
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17f is brutal hard if your team lacks some decent multi target physical attacks like nitori, aya, kanako. If this is the source of your woes, then 18f IS easier, and 17f isnt worth the trouble.
Do nkte though that one of the angel girls can drop something amazing. I forget, angel healer could drop a star of ellindel? Something like that.
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Angel girls? You mean the Sky Fairy in floor 19? She drops Forbiddin Tablets. It's the Truth-Seeing Eyes that drop Star of Elendils. Also I think Sakuya is pretty good on floor 17 iirc.
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They were talking about Touhou Labyrinth 1 actually.
Alice/Wriggle (if it's an atk wriggle at least) are also good multitarget physicals, really anyone in an offense build with one is fine
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Ah, ok, so basically leave the mages at home for that floor and go physical for most things? Sounds cool to me. I seem to recall Narrow Confines being good against those magic immune things, too, though I only ever faced those once. It's the Conceptions and Gold Knights/Sorceresses and Dimensions that get me mosy. So...basically most of the floor. I think I didread about something dropping Stars of Elendil though, so it'll be worth revisiting if I do item grinding later.
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Aaaah, that Yuugi fight. So hard. So tight. So... RNG-like. Every once in a while Yuugi would target the last two slots and screw the whole fight over.
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Aaaah, that Yuugi fight. So hard. So tight. So... RNG-like. Every once in a while Yuugi would target the last two slots and screw the whole fight over.
She does? I'm thinking you're not refering to Knock out in Three Steps. Otherwise yeah. If it's Knock out in Three Steps, I'd be very surprised.
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Knockout in 3 steps. doen't but her regular attack before that stage does and can KO anything easily. You can kind of call it Knockout in one step since regular attacks are 3 times faster.
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Ok, how can I beat that strengthened Memorized Knowledge on the 14th floor anyway ?
After the buffing turn, he just one-shots everything I have, including 40k Komachi. Guess my MYS res isn't high enough ?
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are you sticking to a specific party or? If not you can use characters with guts to hopefully survive and witch others out after.. you can also try to have a full mnd-build (use the level up bonuses) parsee or patchy to maybe take 0 from the nuke (stack mnd, not mys resist in that case). Parsee prob better cuz her mnd is higher, and her attacks are mitigated by enemy def instead of mnd, which I think the boss has much less of.
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Not sure about this since I didn't utilize this technique but I think it is possible to have Reisen + Aya (extra turn) debuff it while Orin spam Cat's Walk to shock it (Reisen's Vertigo helps). You'll probably need a magician as well since Orin and Reisen is going to run out of mana fast from all the spamming.
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Haaah, my first hurdle has appeared...
I'm seriously trying to defeat Tenshi
in 6F to get the drops... I can manage to get her to 1/4 HP using Wriggle poison spam + Heavy item, maxed-out atk Yuugi, maxed-out mag Marisa, Hina debuffs, and Mokou's revival tanking.
I feel like I just need more numbers...
EDIT: challenge surpassed! It took quite a bit of RNG, but nuking the boss with all my might provided results. :3 Now onward, to 7F and beyond~
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Ok, how can I beat that strengthened Memorized Knowledge on the 14th floor anyway ?
After the buffing turn, he just one-shots everything I have, including 40k Komachi. Guess my MYS res isn't high enough ?
Bring in Mokou since she won't die (you don't have to invest into her apart from her resurrection passive) and go from there. If it's still weak to debuffs, debuffing speed is incredibly important. Plus that'd give you time to try to get Tenshi to take off the buff, if you still can't handle it. I haven't fought it yet.
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Haaah, my first hurdle has appeared...
I'm seriously trying to defeat Tenshi
in 6F to get the drops... I can manage to get her to 1/4 HP using Wriggle poison spam + Heavy item, maxed-out atk Yuugi, maxed-out mag Marisa, Hina debuffs, and Mokou's revival tanking.
I feel like I just need more numbers...
EDIT: challenge surpassed! It took quite a bit of RNG, but nuking the boss with all my might provided results. :3 Now onward, to 7F and beyond~
You sir, deserve an internet.
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You sir, deserve an internet.
Honestly, why couldn't the game makers just make an achievement for that?
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Im just about to start floor 4 on my ng+... Looking forward to tenshi #1 actually because im pretty sure my party is better suited to it this time. My lineup is:
Reimu: (i just cant live without good def buffs and didnt want yukari since my lineup lacked healers)
Remi,patchy,china,sakuya: gonna see just how much sdm buff helps. Plus now that sakuya can pierce defenses well she'll be a LOT more useful than in lot1
Ran: i like party buffs too much, i prob should have dumped her though since i seemed to have picked up alot of characters with buffs and/or majesty
Nitori: didnt want her per say but i felt i needed her as a "just in case" character that i know can carry a group thru any boss in terms of kill past defenses
Byakuren: i plan on playing lots in this save so her late game worth after investing tons of skillpoints will be more practical since ill actually level enough fo get em
Eiki: my fave def ignore character
Kasen: just to compare to remi, with and without sdm buff. Currently her top dark nuke seems op as fuu... I mean its formula is stupid good. For example, that wasp boss on 3f that is weak to physical and dark? Took 300 from remi, and 1000 from kasen, and i gave remi better atk gear too.
Hina: wanted to try her all along, but waited for my ng+ game cuz i want to see her in post game too
Parsee: seeing how she compares to patchy.
Note that so far my parsee is having no luck at ALL applying terror to bosses with EITHER of her terror inflicting spells. I often try both like 4 times each on a boss and fail to inflict it once. My kogasa on the other hand almost always landed terror. The nuke she has that only works after a terror seems good but doesnt seem good enough to carry her into op status like people claim unless you have a better source of terror than parsee herself (or simply are more lucky).
Im too scared to use hina much still atm. Waiting to get her dbf reduction on ally skill before i start debuffing everyone, gear would be nice too but ill try before that point.
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Parsee is kind of an all or nothing character in that she deals either craptons or no damage at all, depending on if the enemy is either vulnerable to terror or at least physical so that the box works.
But together with Kogasa (whom is capable of inflicting terror much more reliably because of Arm Twisting) she performs quite nicely.
I kind of put together a party that has no defense ignoring capabilities at all and aside from Sanae no real heals (There's Yuuka, as always and newcomer Maribel but their healing capabilities will only be noticeable much later on) but whatever it will probably work out. :V
First 4 floors were a breeze thanks to op Flan twoshotting everything (or oneshotting Alice's dolls...).
Even Mokou was silly easy (not thanks to Flan though) for some reason. She normally is much more problematic. Was probably the synergy of Suika's and Iku's wind nukes that dealt up to 5k damage in one shot.
I'll see how this setup fares against Tenshi. Probably not so well though.
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Yeah there is always the healer subclass but im not sure if it will be as good on anyone as it was for aya in my first playthru. Her atk is high enough that her heals cure a crapton, and her speed is crazy high so she can both spam them, AND switch in and emergency heal someone before the boss' next move. Plus her evasion is so good that shed rarely have to sorry about healing herself.
That said i forgot abou china as a healer without subclass. In lot1 she easnt much o a healer at all for hp curing capabilities unless she was healing patchy or kaggy (with their pathetic hp making china's puny heals to be significant). However sofar in this game her heal seems pretty effing good, 1mp, fast delay, and heals half as much as colourful rain (as opped to like 1/8 as much as before)
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Yeah there is always the healer subclass but im not sure if it will be as good on anyone as it was for aya in my first playthru. Her atk is high enough that her heals cure a crapton, and her speed is crazy high so she can both spam them, AND switch in and emergency heal someone before the boss' next move. Plus her evasion is so good that shed rarely have to sorry about healing herself.
That said i forgot abou china as a healer without subclass. In lot1 she easnt much o a healer at all for hp curing capabilities unless she was healing patchy or kaggy (with their pathetic hp making china's puny heals to be significant). However sofar in this game her heal seems pretty effing good, 1mp, fast delay, and heals half as much as colourful rain (as opped to like 1/8 as much as before)
Yeah, Meiling's heal is quite strong considering how much MP you waste. And if you get some attack buffs from like say Sanae or Byakuren, her heal becomes super strong, with low delay and low MP consumption.
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Kogasa can actually inflict Terror pretty alright once you learn all the abilities. Kasen is much better on bosses that aren't resistant... but Kogasa can land it decently on bosses that have even star resist, IIRC. It syncs well with Parsee, yeah. I know someone who ran Kogasa as a tank to support Parsee; Easygoing and Heart of Patience does kinda work alright with a support subclass... although, her HP/MND are only passable enough to just make it work out well? At least her DEF is pretty nice.
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I forget, what are all the things Terror can do?
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Makes you lose 1 MP per turn taken or slightly reduces enemy stats. The only enemy I know of that takes advantage of terror is floor 16 dream eater.
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There are several bosses that inflict it but most are the kind that have a chance of simply inflicting absolutely everything.
That said the stat reduction on enemies when you successfully inflict terror on them seems so minor that the simple + or - 10% is more significant... in other words I've seen cases where some hits after terror hit me harder than before, and same for the other way around (me hitting them).
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I've never used terror to actually do anything to enemies, it just seems to have too minor of an effect. Using it for Kogasa's self-buff skill, however, makes it awesomely awesome. Kogasa, Kasen and Parsee really do make a fantastic combination, especially if you give Kasen and Parsee that terror-inflicting thingy to boost their chances.
Is anything actually immune to status ailments? The star resist seems to be imperfect if you've got a high enough proc chance so is there anyway to make sure whether it will or won't work?
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Beat the strengthened Memorized Knowledge :DDD.
I used Aya to give Cirno first turn and debuff the thing's speed, Reisen to debuff it's defense and Orin to SHK-locking (Gave her the Great Hammer, Cat Walk is so cheap, repeat so many times that the boss will always get shocked before it can even buff itself).
After getting everything to -50%, I switched Flan, Remilia and Nitori in for the pummeling while Orin keep shocking the thing. It never got a turn so I didn't even have to reapply the debuff :o
This reminds me of how better some of the boss fights in this game are, not just fighting big numbers with bigger numbers.
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There are several bosses that inflict it but most are the kind that have a chance of simply inflicting absolutely everything.
That said the stat reduction on enemies when you successfully inflict terror on them seems so minor that the simple + or - 10% is more significant... in other words I've seen cases where some hits after terror hit me harder than before, and same for the other way around (me hitting them).
And the reason that the game makers couldn't make it so that it could act as though it was a -10% debuff in everything is... why?
...although, I do wonder if maybe it affects something else as well, like how well you could land other ailments like Shock...
Kogasa can actually inflict Terror pretty alright once you learn all the abilities. Kasen is much better on bosses that aren't resistant... but Kogasa can land it decently on bosses that have even star resist, IIRC. It syncs well with Parsee, yeah. I know someone who ran Kogasa as a tank to support Parsee; Easygoing and Heart of Patience does kinda work alright with a support subclass... although, her HP/MND are only passable enough to just make it work out well? At least her DEF is pretty nice.
...the fact that Kogasa can inflict Terror on enemies that possess Star level resistance proves to me that Arm Twisting is very effective in assisting people in inflicting status ailments(the fact that she has a skill that increases her ability to inflict Terror makes it even better).
That said, this is why I had stated before that some people would be better with Arm Twisting, like Cirno. In fact, if Cirno were granted the Arm-Twisting and Impact Attack skills, all it would really do is enhance her theme of "slowing the enemy to a crawl" by both make said debuffs and Paralysis more effective, and by giving her another way to do so via inflicting Shock.
As a related question in regards to ailments: does leveling up Wriggle's spellcards strengthen the poison that she inflicts with them? Because if so, then that would explain why she didn't get a skill to power up her ability to poison: because said 'skill' is already in the spellcards themselves.
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Beat the strengthened Memorized Knowledge :DDD.
I used Aya to give Cirno first turn and debuff the thing's speed, Reisen to debuff it's defense and Orin to SHK-locking (Gave her the Great Hammer, Cat Walk is so cheap, repeat so many times that the boss will always get shocked before it can even buff itself).
After getting everything to -50%, I switched Flan, Remilia and Nitori in for the pummeling while Orin keep shocking the thing. It never got a turn so I didn't even have to reapply the debuff :o
This reminds me of how better some of the boss fights in this game are, not just fighting big numbers with bigger numbers.
The shock method isn't going to work for most of the other bosses other than Soul Eater and it is reasonably fast
. However, expect to grind your teeth when fighting Mirror.
And the reason that the game makers couldn't make it so that it could act as though it was a -10% debuff in everything is... why?
For terror inflicted on enemies, I think it simply acts separate from debuffs particularly when interacting with some characters that are strengthened by them or terror in particularly.
As a related question in regards to ailments: does leveling up Wriggle's spellcards strengthen the poison that she inflicts with them? Because if so, then that would explain why she didn't get a skill to power up her ability to poison: because said 'skill' is already in the spellcards themselves.
I tested this out and for some strange reason, Wriggles's comet on earth always inflict 40kish poison regardless of everything. I am trying to figure out what determines the damage of the poison.
Edit: OK this is interesting. A level 1 Wriggles that spent on 0 points on anything has poison visibly dropping a floor 2 boss in mook clothing at the same speed as if she hits a floor 4 mook. I can confirm that toxo increases the duration but doesn't seem to have a visible effect on DoT. Leveling her spellcard doesn't seem to change that either. Reapplying poison on an enemy already poison seems to increase the duration by a fraction of what it normally would. I suspect poison damage scales with the enemy's max health.
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I suspect poison damage scales with the enemy's max health.
That'd do odd things with certain bosses...
Maybe I should test sometime.
I would have assumed damage scaled with level, but maybe they thought that was too unreliable in large scaling after LoT1? Wriggle was amazing in that game, but then in the 70+ level gap to reaching plus disk, poison became completely useless, dealing practically no damage.
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It have more to do with that LoT1 speed scales entirely too fast (at least until you hit the upper limits) compare to poison and the fact that poison deals set damage over time (and probably the reason why they set poison they way it is now).
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And Alice get! \o/
Is it normal that while Patchy's recommended for the fight, I got way more mileage out of Kasen? Seriously, she's way too good.
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And Alice get! \o/
Is it normal that while Patchy's recommended for the fight, I got way more mileage out of Kasen? Seriously, she's way too good.
Yeah, Kasen is a powerful jack of all trades kind of character. But that also might be to due to Patchy not being particularly strong early/mid game. Once you get some more levels and level up her attack skills, she will begin doing some serious damage but... Patchy is still very slow and has wet tissue paper tier defenses. So it really depends on the situation.
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Thinking about doing another run but with another carry (the one putting out the numbers) with some unconventional choices). Here are the candidates:
- Ran
- Byakuren
- Okuu
- Yukari
- Kogasa
- Sakuya
Ones I won't do.
- Nitori (just done her)
- Kasen (too obvious of a choice)
- Yuuka (think a lot of people already done her)
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Must be hard to get good damage from Okuu 'cause I believe she needs to stack Overheat/Fighting spirit but looking at her post-use gauge spells delay and survivability...
I once tried to pump her up with gems and skill points the outcome was terrible I gave up after the 2nd turns, keeping her longer might not be possible against some bosses.
So I would say Sakuya.
From my experience she's a good random encounters sweeper but I didn't try further because I rely on her speed buff otherwise.
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Thinking about doing another run but with another carry (the one putting out the numbers) with some unconventional choices). Here are the candidates:
- Ran
- Byakuren
- Okuu
- Yukari
- Kogasa
- Sakuya
Ones I won't do.
- Nitori (just done her)
- Kasen (too obvious of a choice)
- Yuuka (think a lot of people already done her)
I vote Ran.
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Try Okuu and/or the Yakumo family (can't really see Yukari dishing out too much damage without Ran and Chen. Her only proper nuke is Shikigami+ and it falls off hard once even one of the two dies and if you pick Ran and/or Yukari you might as well pick up lil Chen as well. But the three together really wreck everything.)
Okuu has massive mana problems early on with overheat though and really only starts to shine once she has enough skillpoints to get her entire kit up and running.
Her damage does become good and she also gets quite tanky in the later stages if you get her to stack her stuff. Careful though with balancing the overheat and then picking a good moment to switch her out and back in.
On another note: Flan is still silly and twoshot Hina with lvl5 Laevateinn.
Edit: You're all typing way too fast at such a late hour...
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I tested this out and for some strange reason, Wriggles's comet on earth always inflict 40kish poison regardless of everything. I am trying to figure out what determines the damage of the poison.
Edit: OK this is interesting. A level 1 Wriggles that spent on 0 points on anything has poison visibly dropping a floor 2 boss in mook clothing at the same speed as if she hits a floor 4 mook. I can confirm that toxo increases the duration but doesn't seem to have a visible effect on DoT. Leveling her spellcard doesn't seem to change that either. Reapplying poison on an enemy already poison seems to increase the duration by a fraction of what it normally would. I suspect poison damage scales with the enemy's max health.
So, leveling up the spellcard doesn't affect the poison effect in any way? That's bizzare. Does that mean that leveling it up only increases the damage that it would deal directly(as in "damage that is instant and not DoT")?
Wait a second. I recall that Wriggle's "Nightbug Tornado" spellcard is supposed to deal more damage if the enemy is poisoned. Maybe that spell and the other spells operate on that principle and the leveling up affects that?(If that's true, I would call it a bad idea, given how Wriggle isn't supposed to be used for direct damage in the first place)
That'd do odd things with certain bosses...
Which bosses are we talking about, if I can ask?
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I've lost my save with all characters unlocked at lvl 1 for LoT, can anyone help a guy out?
EDIT: Never mind, went back a few threads and it was in the OP. I'll see myself out.
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I haven't used one from the op for some time, you may wanna make sure it's not bugged out so that everyone has the same elemental affinities, I seem to recall that was an issue. if it is I can see if I have mine which was fixed.
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Hmmm. Been debating trying a Gambler Satori after I beat the final boss. In postgame she can have the max mp for "Small MP Recovery" to really shine, and won't have a large mp detriment on ally skills, and Gambler would give her the means to turn any strong move into a real nuke. Honestly, with a main equip to boost max mp, she'd probably have very few mp troubles even as Gambler, and Trauma Recollection+flexibility with weakness hitting would help her be useful against any boss. The question is if it's worth dropping Flan...
As for Byakuren Carry, she does have the self-buff stuff keeping her going, but in my experience her actual attacks aren't quite as strong as you might think. The main advantage is just that she has a variety and they carry debuffs/statuses, and that she's in general a good character with her passives, but... I think other people are better suited, other than Byakuren's durability getting boosted by having permanently high buffs. Sakuya Carry would depend on SDM to really work, but if you were doing Sakuya Carry you'd probably use them all already anyway.
Yukari actually -would- be a pretty cool carry, since she has -very- good passives like Border of Strength/Witchcraft and her regeneration passive (and majesty) and a good team passive. Ran is a useful support to have boosted with her and then Chen is... huh, Ran buffing her evasion, I wonder how useful 200+ evasion is?
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My alice had like 140 evasion and it was nice but there are attacks that seem to be unavoidable every time.
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12F is cleared and good! I'm making pleasant progress-- though I have to admit, I saw a 40k Nitori blast on
12F's Tenshi
and wondered if I'm leveling too fast...
Nah :P
I have to admit, the new soundtrack starting at 13F is pretty cool!
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As for Byakuren Carry, she does have the self-buff stuff keeping her going, but in my experience her actual attacks aren't quite as strong as you might think. The main advantage is just that she has a variety and they carry debuffs/statuses, and that she's in general a good character with her passives, but... I think other people are better suited, other than Byakuren's durability getting boosted by having permanently high buffs.
Yeah, from my EXP Byakuren isn't exactly a "carry". She's simply a bulky offensive support. Able to switch up between attacking and supporting with buffs, but doesn't quite hit hard enough to "carry". She does do quite a bit of damage, but not enough to be a main carry, especially since you're gonna be trying to switch between supporting with buffs and attacking, you'll end up running out of mp.
About the evasion, my Aya has 183 evasion and it works out quite well, however, there is that one attack that just hits you once in a while. Which is why it is very good thing to give Aya HP investment.
@ Trickster-kun You're probably not leveling too fast. Are the bosses becoming to easy and boring for you? If they are you should probably slow down.
And yeah, 13-15 floor soundtrack is really nice, but imo, I liked 16-18 floor the best. Though 19-21th floor is also really great.
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Let's just say that LoT2 has some of the best movement musics.
So far I have the following approvals.
1 Sakuya
2 Okuu
2 Yukari
@Trickster. Nitori can genuinely hit that hard especially if you spec'ed her on gambler and put maintenance'd pure attack items on her.
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I actually liked most of lot1s music more... Though i do enjoy the dungeon music of 1-3f quite a bit.
19-21f is also good but kinda anticlimatic. I mean the song itself sounds like its constantly building up to some epic climax but... Doesnt. Still sounds good though.
Honestly though, lot1 had a new track for every floor and they didnt repeat until post game indont think, boss music had more variety too. Lot2s music isnt bad per say but it was something i favor for lot1 (original, i didnt like the special disk tracklist very much).
And nitori doesnt need a subclass OR favored equipment to do good damage. She's op enough to be op even with average gear and other classes like monk/warrior. Due to overheat and 3d cannon costing a fortune im not sure if id like gambler for her at all, with monk you can "warm up" overheat with that cheap fast wind attack then 3d cannon without spending too much mp, andthen 3d cannon again if you like. The nature defense pierce move is also alot of help for tanky trash you dont wanna overkill too (like those golem type enemies on 20f)
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Nitori can't really fire her 3d gun with the double mp passive for a while even with MP gear though some may like the augmented damage and overheat doesn't come int play if you play her as a hit-and-run style. The time to recharge the MP however... you think it may be better to just use Flandre for that purpose?
Also, no mention of f16-18?! Dat orchestra piece.
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Nitori can't really fire her 3d gun with the double mp passive for a while even with MP gear though some may like the augmented damage and overheat doesn't come int play if you play her as a hit-and-run style. The time to recharge the MP however... you think it may be better to just use Flandre for that purpose?
Also, no mention of f16-18?! Dat orchestra piece.
Gambler on Nitori seems kind of... anti- whatever the word is. With the help of maintenance, Nitori becomes a fast bulky nuker thing. Giving her gambler would greatly increase her damage yeah, but now you're taking 2x damage despite your incredible resistances and defenses gained from the items you have in your possession... Feels wasted. Not saying it wouldn't work, but I don't like the idea.
@ Dodging_Rain I did mention 16-18 floor, I just said I liked that one the best. :V
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Nitori isn't a good gambler for the same reason Marisa isn't; her nuke already costs a ton of mp. Nitori can arguably handle it better with maxed Cooling Down and a Yogurt Doll, but that would mean staying out to pull off a concentrate while in a full gambler build, and if you have to do that you could have just double Scope'd in a normal build anyway.
e:actually it'd be really damn hard to get enough mp to cast spark once as marisa gambler in the first place
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Nitori isn't a good gambler for the same reason Marisa isn't; her nuke already costs a ton of mp. Nitori can arguably handle it better with maxed Cooling Down and a Yogurt Doll, but that would mean staying out to pull off a concentrate while in a full gambler build, and if you have to do that you could have just double Scope'd in a normal build anyway.
e:actually it'd be really damn hard to get enough mp to cast spark once as marisa gambler in the first place
You would need at least 52 to pull it off :|
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That means tons of magic gems...
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I don't mean to bring up stuff like this repetitively, but I have have a question about this in particular...
That said, this is why I had stated before that some people would be better with Arm Twisting, like Cirno. In fact, if Cirno were granted the Arm-Twisting and Impact Attack skills, all it would really do is enhance her theme of "slowing the enemy to a crawl" by both make said debuffs and Paralysis more effective, and by giving her another way to do so via inflicting Shock.
My question is this: would giving Cirno those two skills that I had mentioned make her OP?
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Assuming it was as effective as kogasa's arm twisting in making her able to terror and mnd debuff virtually everything, yes... She could -50% speed everything easily, AND she has her aoe paralize ro boot.
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Well, Cirno more or less relies completely on her ability to stop foes in their tracks as her one forte, so it doesn't sound OP to me, to be honest. I mean, when debuffing speed and landing a AOE Paralysis spell are essentially the only thing that said character is good for, then it would sense to make her as effective at doing so as possible. Cirno isn't going to be dealing anything in terms of direct damage, and her White Album spell is only good for her if she were in a fully defensive build. I even thought of Impact Attack as a means to give Cirno another way to slow down foes, via a delay in their timebars.
Also, Kogasa has a skill that boosts her ability to inflict Terror, so that also factors into her ability to reliably deal said status ailment. Cirno, on the other hand, has no such help from another skill for either of her disabling abilities. Inflicting Terror is Kogasa's "shtick", just as disabling foes is Cirno's.
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-50% SPD debuffs on bosses is extremely debilitating. Also, Cirno's damage was actually pretty good when I was using her through at least half the game, she'd wipe randoms a decent amount of the time. (This is -without- 9 team)
Cirno doesn't need to be made stronger because if you use her as 9 Team then she's already really strong. It's like a 96% bonus to all stats (and a lower one to spd) when they're all fielded, and she had a lot of her stats increased in the newer versions. Honestly, I'm looking at the final boss, and debating just pumping the entire 9 Team to max allowed library levels (I'm in Hard Mode) and then Tome of Reincarnation'ing it all off after I beat the boss. They probably aren't so amazing to just solo it at challenge level though...
On a more serious note, I actually might do something along those lines with the entire Eientei Team and perhaps Rumia. Nitori can barely hurt the final boss with fully buffed Super Scope and I can't just solo it with Flandre, and all my other attackers do 0 at full buffs BEFORE he uses World Shaking Military Rule (kasen, yuuka, kanako, and then byaku is about to be switched to full support tank). Kaguya has 90% defense ignore and the other two have 50% ignore with a DRK attack to hit weakness. Basically my entire roster of characters intended for damage are completely useless in this fight, and it'd be quite difficult even if they weren't, so... (I might go ahead and pump nitori into a full tank build since I think that should work well)
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Kogasa gets a bonus to terror yes but not to -mnd debuffing, and arm twisting makes it so she can make the final boss, with high dbf resist, go from 100% mnd buff after focus, to -30% in one hit... Cirno would be able to effectively half any boss' activity (or more if they started out speed buffed) at will. And if you think she is useless for everything but that, why NOT build her defensively? I mean reimu is good for nothing but def buffs and aoe heal, and shes regarded as one of the games best.. Fast aoe piercing paralize and guaranteed maximum slowdown would actually be even better. There are no reliable ways to slow many bosses in the game, and cirno is already the best at it. If you amplified it enough so ut could always land on dbf immune enemies (like kogasa can seemingly -mnd anything every time) her big slow, you basically have a single character that will DOUBLE the effectiveness of all 12 of your party (since they take half as many hits, can deal double between each one, stack debuffs twice as much, etc).
As for final boss... Yeah its kinda a dumb boss imo. I basically just respecced my entire party of 12 full mnd/def/spd... I got rid of all attack stats on everyone since nobody had a hope of denting the boss. Then i just nitori'd him to death slowly. Took like 20 scopes or so iirc. In addition to rumia/kogasa's hits. I just would keep momiji and remi in slot 1 and 2 the entire fight spamming attack (cuz only 30% delay) until they were needed to switch oneone. Having 2 full time switchers who do nothing else enabled me to sneak nitori in for a nuke or focus and swap out safely every time. Also, because my entire roster was respecced for defense i didnt have a hard time keeping everyone healthy aside from insta deaths from falling tree or back row ratsetsu fist/mp eating heal nuke thing.
Sounds slow and was but it goes by faster than you would think when you just focus on nitori nuke, nitori charge, and have 2 full time switchers who are always at 70% or higher action bar.
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The damage formula seems that it seems could use some work. It feels like if the character in question isn't a dedicated DPS/nuker or has a mean to bypass def/mind, they stand a chance to deal 0 damage and even then, many still do. I remember someone mentioned that when their Yuugi got a 14% att buff, she was suddenly dealing 100% more damage. It gets worse when you go into the extra dungeon contents and have mooks taking 0 damage. I mentioned one taking 0 damage from both attack and magic spellcards with only poison the only way to actually bring it down low enough to cherry tap it.
All in all, it kind of forces me to bring along a def/mind bypass character (Kaguya, Sakuya) or someone that might hits hard enough to go through (Nitori, Flandre)
Against the normal final boss, I actually had to charge up overheat several levels by using the attack command. Otherwise Nitori would barely scratch it even with 100% att buff (for reference, all of my characters were level 100) if Hina or Byakuren hasn't debuffed its def. But once you get overheat stacks going, it deals a lot more damage where I can see a significant chunk of the boss's health meter drop.
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Having cleared Winner yet again, I decided to go full-on randomized party in LoT1. The RNG gods gave me (followed by how I intend to build them):
Remilia (HP/DEF/MND)
Reimu (MND/MAG)
Wriggle (HP/DEF/MND)
Rumia (MAG)
Mokou (MAG/mnd/def)
Inaba (MAG)
Utsuho (MAG)
Suwako (ATT)
Flan (ATT)
Eiki (ATT)
Suika (ATT/MND)
Cirno (SPD?/HP?)
I have an absurdly high amount of damage, debuff, paralyze etc. I can cure status/debuffs with suika. I have good defensive buffs, and half-decent heals between Rumia and Reimu. I don't have a single non-selftargetted damage buff, which kind of sucks. How screwed am I? I think I'm really going to have to rely on having my swaps be on-point, as most of my damage dealers are going to be squishy no matter what I do to them. I think a LOT of my skill points are going to go into making Remilia/Reimu/Suika/Mokou defensive enough to take hits without dying.
I'm not really sure what to do with Cirno, I have no experience with her (as well as a few of my other characters, but they're more straight-forward) and I was thinking SPD just to rock out those -SPD attacks as much as possible, and get in swaps. Any suggestions there?
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I think a LOT of my skill points are going to go into making Remilia/Reimu/Suika/Mokou defensive enough to take hits without dying.
That should probably read Remilia/Reimu/Suika/Wriggle instead.
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Before I start ranting about the LoT1 stuff- oops, I haven't had Maintenance learned on Nitori. Whoooooooooooooops. Okay, final boss is more doable now. I just got instagibbed by fully buffed Start of Heavenly Demise though the moment before I won, so lame.
Don't spend levelup bonuses on HP in LoT1, ever. Not even for Komachi (who is far far better in an atk build and doesn't lose much tankiness unless you're bringing her in once in the entire game- for the Shikieiki fight). Tanks should always go for def or mnd over that. In LoT1, at least.
You got a lot of glass cannons, ouch. You'll need to capitalize on the ones out of them that can be built to actually take hits.
I'm honestly not sure what you want out of Cirno. As long as she can go first in random battles (which can be accomplished with spd+ gear in most cases) she's fine in SPD. An ATK build will make her nicer in randoms but isn't going to matter on a boss, especially without buffs to improve her composite attacks to "okay against cld-weak boss" tier. You can build her for HP (I know I just said not to) and hope her to be able to take single hits in boss fights, or use all the levelup bonuses on MND and pray it achieves a similar effect but I'm not sure how well that would work. Since you have Reisen AND Suika she won't even be much special in bosses, but it can't be helped.
Suika is probably your best offensive smasher due to actually being able to buff her ATK, and Utsuho might not be total garbage (although oh god her sp costs why) but you actually should probably rather try to capitalize some on Suika's passable mnd instead since you already have so many glass cannons, basically half your team.
Mokou is hard since she doesn't really have any durability to speak of until the end part of the game (and plus disk if you do that) and isn't terribly good offensively either. If you sacrifice too much offense for defense she won't even be worth attacking with.
Also, don't spend any of Reimu's levelup bonuses in MAG. Not worth it, tweak it with skillpoints/gear as necessary. And on that note... given Remilia/Wriggle are your first two slots basically all of the time, you'll really want to tweak Wriggle to be able to handle it.
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And on that note... given Remilia/Wriggle are your first two slots basically all of the time, you'll really want to tweak Wriggle to be able to handle it.
Remilia/Wriggle are going to be planted to slot 1/2, with Suika + Mokou + Reimu as my back up hit takers. I guess for Cirno I will pump her MND and hope for the best. She does have that self buff spell that gives her DEF/MND. I'd like to get her to at least, "Doesnt' always die when caught out by bosses mid-level AoE" tier.
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Back to ThLaby2. Upon realizing how easily I can mass buff my party after Byakuren can pick up all five of her self-buff passives, plus that it'll only get easier once I grab Renko in post game, and I have tank Yukari for def/mnd party buff support even before then... I went ahead and just traded Reimu for Rumia since I seriously only need the multi-heal. Rumia's heal scales much more easily in this game, and she actually has pretty good MND. It hurts how pathetic her HP is... but she can afford a full mag build and still be able to take a magic hit if I give her a First Aid Kit or Megasphere (dear god megasphere is nuts), meaning that she can utilize her useful attacks as well.
Plus I like Rumia. I didn't really want her in my party before due to my plans, but now she fits in perfectly. <3
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Back to ThLaby2. Upon realizing how easily I can mass buff my party after Byakuren can pick up all five of her self-buff passives, plus that it'll only get easier once I grab Renko in post game, and I have tank Yukari for def/mnd party buff support even before then... I went ahead and just traded Reimu for Rumia since I seriously only need the multi-heal. Rumia's heal scales much more easily in this game, and she actually has pretty good MND. It hurts how pathetic her HP is... but she can afford a full mag build and still be able to take a magic hit if I give her a First Aid Kit or Megasphere (dear god megasphere is nuts), meaning that she can utilize her useful attacks as well.
Plus I like Rumia. I didn't really want her in my party before due to my plans, but now she fits in perfectly. <3
Fine! I'll play LoT2 instead of this RNG party in LoT1. How bad is it not having any of the events translated? Am I going to have to play with the wiki open constantly?
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Fine! I'll play LoT2 instead of this RNG party in LoT1. How bad is it not having any of the events translated? Am I going to have to play with the wiki open constantly?
Woah, there are ppl who isn't playing with the wiki opened constantly ?
Anyhow, just follow the wiki and continue exploring to 100% the game. 13-18F are the puzzle levels. Granted they are not TouLab1's Failsafe lock tier but you can get real headaches without any help ( I'm kinda amazed that I cleared the area before the info popping on the wiki :V ).
Hmmm, if you pump Satori's MAG high and field her with Komachi, you'll have a SPI nuke that has a reasonable cooldown, hits harder than Yuyuko's and debuffs at the same time. Same goes for other characters with lackluster stats to support their damaging skills :getdown: :getdown:
Aaaaand Strengthened Canopy Orb will self-destruct, dealing 6 gorillion damage to your party if it is the only enemy left. Very nice.
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Kogasa gets a bonus to terror yes but not to -mnd debuffing, and arm twisting makes it so she can make the final boss, with high dbf resist, go from 100% mnd buff after focus, to -30% in one hit... Cirno would be able to effectively half any boss' activity (or more if they started out speed buffed) at will. And if you think she is useless for everything but that, why NOT build her defensively? I mean reimu is good for nothing but def buffs and aoe heal, and shes regarded as one of the games best.. Fast aoe piercing paralize and guaranteed maximum slowdown would actually be even better. There are no reliable ways to slow many bosses in the game, and cirno is already the best at it. If you amplified it enough so ut could always land on dbf immune enemies (like kogasa can seemingly -mnd anything every time) her big slow, you basically have a single character that will DOUBLE the effectiveness of all 12 of your party (since they take half as many hits, can deal double between each one, stack debuffs twice as much, etc).
You know, when you put like that, it really makes me think that Arm-Twisting is one of the strongest skills in the entire game, if it can unbalance everything just from letting the wrong characters have it. Makes me think that said skill would be insanely good on anyone who can inflict status ailments or debuffs(which leads to the conclusion that I made long ago that Arm-Twisting + Toxicologist spells and skills = Good status ailment dealer)...
-50% SPD debuffs on bosses is extremely debilitating. Also, Cirno's damage was actually pretty good when I was using her through at least half the game, she'd wipe randoms a decent amount of the time. (This is -without- 9 team)
Cirno doesn't need to be made stronger because if you use her as 9 Team then she's already really strong. It's like a 96% bonus to all stats (and a lower one to spd) when they're all fielded, and she had a lot of her stats increased in the newer versions. Honestly, I'm looking at the final boss, and debating just pumping the entire 9 Team to max allowed library levels (I'm in Hard Mode) and then Tome of Reincarnation'ing it all off after I beat the boss. They probably aren't so amazing to just solo it at challenge level though...
And this leads to me realizing that I don't know crap about how team skills or the characters themselves work... Sigh.
Still, the fact that I can ask if something is OP or not is helpful. Thanks for your opinions, guys.
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For the challenges on the bosses, does it go by the 'average level' seen at the top-right of the menu? By that I mean, if I have a fast levelling character who is level 8, while the challenge is level 6, but the average is still 6, am I cool?
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Aaaaand Strengthened Canopy Orb will self-destruct, dealing 6 gorillion damage to your party if it is the only enemy left. Very nice.
The damage is based on it's current hp.
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For the challenges on the bosses, does it go by the 'average level' seen at the top-right of the menu?
It takes the average of your party.
Which is rather silly later on as you can just kick everyone but 1 and have that character be at a level 12 times higher than the challenge and be to high to even take damage from the boss.
But this does not apply for hardmode. There it takes the level of the highest character.
I've read quite a bit about Flan in this thread here now and up to floor 8 she is ridiculous in terms of damage output. Does that stay that way? Will she still twoshot bosses that are weak to dark and/or fire?
Would be silly if so. (Or maybe I never used any of the heavy nukers and am not used to taking out big chunks of health in one hit instead of dealing steady damage.)
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I've read quite a bit about Flan in this thread here now and up to floor 8 she is ridiculous in terms of damage output. Does that stay that way? Will she still twoshot bosses that are weak to dark and/or fire?
Would be silly if so. (Or maybe I never used any of the heavy nukers and am not used to taking out big chunks of health in one hit instead of dealing steady damage.)
What do you think ?
She's still the same monster we all know and love from 1, except this time even more ridiculous. She'll absolutely rekt anything and anyone that isn't resistant to Dark (And Fire, but you don't wanna use more than 1 L?vatein per battle). You can spec her into Warrior if you want to use her in grinds.
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Yes, Flan will return to broke status after you pick up Gambler. She can one-shot one of the Three Orbs (granted it's one of the frailest ones, but it's also the most dangerous) and she facewipes the 20F Magatama. The only reason she doesn't break the final boss is because it's HP count is enormous and it regenerates it repeatedly.
Other glass cannons as Gamblers can get similar results to bosses weak to their nuke, though, admittedly- I had Suwako facewipe the 20F Mirror because it was too annoying, and she did a very good Flandre impression. When you're only considering Flan's Starbow Break (and not her random-wiping moves with their downsides) Suwako can pretty much serve as an alternate elemental Flan; none of Suwako's other moves are any good, either, unless you switch to MAG for fighting randoms or desperately need PAR for some reason. Unless you're using moriya synergy and not the SDM, though, Flan's damage without elements considered is a little higher. I suppose if you handled Suwako carefully, someone using Yuuka (or leaning iron mountains) could get a big damage increase from Kero Kero Power, but she's irredeemably glassy, so.
Satori could make a very interesting gambler and building her max mp would make Small MP Recovery extremely synergistic with gambler mp costs, but you'd have to deal with the awkwardness of her moveset availability. The variety she's capable of, making up for lower spellcard level with Trauma Recollection, and having unending mp due to her passives would make it a pretty worthy choice though; just dump 10 MP gems on her (I have 30+ by final boss time) and maybe an MP boost main equip and she should have enough to regain as much as 10(!) mp on each swapout, rendering even her boosted gambler recollection mp costs trivial. Also she ignores def/mnd buffs I guess, that's important on bosses that like selfbuffing.
Fine! I'll play LoT2 instead of this RNG party in LoT1.
That's not quite what I meant ;_; Although that's certainly a pretty good course of action after beating the first game :3 Anyway, I had little trouble playing through the game without using the wiki for anything other than having an easier time comparing the characters to eachother and seeing which I wanted to use, which you can do ingame too anyway. Well, nevermind, there's a BP events related to recruiting people that you can't really tell in JP. The only inconvenience for me, which even the wiki can't solve, is a lot of the later stones blocking your way aren't translated OR on the wiki, so I just kind of have to guess. Admittedly that's usually not too hard, but, still...
tl;dr Unless a boss is kicking your ass and you want advice, just use the subclass/characters sections of the wiki as a convenience tool to help decide how you'd like to build your party. (And how to unlock said characters)
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Never really considered Suwako.
Maybe I'll swap Flan out for her. Will definitely do that. Beyond her attack-buff each turn Flan doesn't really offer any utility to my party
(even the attackbuff is kinda wasted since I don't have too many physical attackers and they wouldn't be in together with her)
and I'm not really a fan of that.
I also have both the rest of the Moriya party and Yuuka so that could be nice.
The drawbacks of Flandre's attacks always made me not take her in, back in LoT1 as well.
Having Mari for Dark and copied spells from Mokou & Hina for Fire also covers the elements that Flan has.
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These 13-14-15F gimmicks are really testing my patience...
... I was wondering what the empty slots in my party were, and I completely skipped out on Mystia. xD Then I was lucky enough to get the last item for Byakuren, so GET.
I've progressed in this puzzle quite a bit, to the point where I'm actually out and about walking in 15F, but I'm postponing that part since I'm preparing for the battle against Flan: 30 FOEs done, 60+ achievements done, all I need is the SDM BP count to unlock the fight. Trash mobs, here I come~
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Hello! I have a question.
I've been playing LoT2 (just finished floor 17) and completely forgot to recruit Yuuka. I went back and finished the chain of events up to 8F (with the Utsuho BP requirement), but the 10F one hasn't appeared at all for some reason. The Japanese wiki says it's supposed to be in the southeast but my map doesn't display any exclamation marks besides the warps and a rock.
Is there anything else I should have done, or is this a bug? Any help would be appreciated.
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I think the bulk of the temperature puzzle are in floor 13-14 with floor 15 making a smaller part of it and being a bit more straight forward. Also floor 13-15 is pretty nice place to grind especially considering the next strategy 16-18 gets pretty nasty later on.
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Is there a way to make the fight against Magatama on 12F any easier? I had no trouble against the Mirror -Patchi could tank its attacks and hit it for ~20k with a fully buffed Princess Undine :V-, but Magatama gets ridiculously fast after using Great Ruin. My strategy basically is buffing Nitori, switch her for Hina, debuff Magatama, switch Nitori back and Super Scope for ~44k. But it always kills me when it's about to die. So I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, being really unlucky or I just need to grind some more levels.
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I've been playing LoT2 (just finished floor 17) and completely forgot to recruit Yuuka. I went back and finished the chain of events up to 8F (with the Utsuho BP requirement), but the 10F one hasn't appeared at all for some reason.
Is it possible you just happened to already have the required BP for that one when you first found it, and so already cleared it? If you have no idea you can just try to walk over to the bushes where Yuuka is. They should still be there... I think... but then they all clear out as you poke them since you already did the events. Or maybe they're just already gone, I don't remember.
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Flandre certainly does a buttload of damage, but eh, don't really like her though. I guess it's my inner hipster.
Too busily grinding for strengthened kraken right now. And not to long ago, I started to farm for gems. Here comes the long ride... weeeeeee.
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The reason why gambler flan is so good is because the side effects of gambler mean virtually nothing to her because she's slready squishy as fuu and dont wanna get hit, and the things that make her nukes so expensive arent the mp cost, but their side effects, which gambler leaves alone.
And yeah arm twisting is remarkable, and must be given to characters carefully. Imagind if kasen, remilia, alice, of any charcter eith high all around stats and a decen attack had maintnence. I dont know about toxologist cuz ive never ised one but their ailments are described as weak. So im not sure they would really be amazing even if application was easy. "Weak" might be an understatement though so who knows. Though maybe itd be good on a hexer too. I mean i dont know if arm twisting is SUPPOSED to amplify stat debuffs or not but seeing kogasa's mnd debuff make a resistant boss go from +100% to the negatives in one hi make me think its a possibility.
Naturally arm twisting would be most broken on characters like reisen, eiki, komachi, or someone with a debuff everything.
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I kind of wonder now how useful PAR or SHK would be on an Arm Twisting character using either the main equip and/or toxicologist skills.
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Is it possible you just happened to already have the required BP for that one when you first found it, and so already cleared it? If you have no idea you can just try to walk over to the bushes where Yuuka is. They should still be there... I think... but then they all clear out as you poke them since you already did the events. Or maybe they're just already gone, I don't remember.
Thank you! I couldn't go past the bushes before but I went back and found another Minoriko event on 3F that I somehow missed, and the bushes cleared out. It's very strange that the 10F and 13F events didn't show up at all, but I had Cirno and Minoriko out during normal enemy-clearing so maybe they just don't appear if you have enough BP?
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I kind of wonder now how useful PAR or SHK would be on an Arm Twisting character using either the main equip and/or toxicologist skills.
Well actually i tried putting a taser and giant hammer on kogasa and truth be told thei activation rate was still absolute carp. I dont know if arm twisting doesnt affect ailments very much, or if those items are just really really bad at what they do naturally. Maybe they dont have a % chance to apply afflictions on attacks, maybethey only have like a 5% chance of even TRYING to apply them before it is then given a chance to be resisted?
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The activation on the primary equipment for cause ailments is pretty low that I don't really count on it happening even in random encounters. I am not certain what effects it would have on a character that already has that effect (giving the terror inducing equipment in Kogasa) nor do I know if the rate is improved with maintenance.
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I don't remember Alice being this hard.
All of her row attacks just straight up kill anyone with less than 1000 health it seems. Playing the game underleveled just got way harder.
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Lower than the challenge thing? I imagine being much lower than those is problematic at times since like half my cast would hit many bosses for 0 and others would get oneshot from aoe physical attacks l.
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Lower than the challenge thing? I imagine being much lower than those is problematic at times since like half my cast would hit many bosses for 0 and others would get oneshot from aoe physical attacks l.
I'm aiming for one level below the CL for the encounter each time. So far it's been so good, but Alice has hit me with a wall, and I'd also rather not grind money to use in patche's stat enchantments since that defeats the purpose sort of.
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I'm aiming for one level below the CL for the encounter each time. So far it's been so good, but Alice has hit me with a wall, and I'd also rather not grind money to use in patche's stat enchantments since that defeats the purpose sort of.
Yeah I have no idea why the hard mode requirement for that is your level X 1.2 for each stat, that's way super high. I guess that figure was designed for the old version in mind where skillpoints were much less expensive.
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So I'm finally playing this.
And I started in Hard Mode.
I may have made a huge mistake.
Iku wrecks me like no one else. Her "I'm less than half health so I'm going to BZZZT your party over and over until they die!" is something I'm not sure I can handle. I can make Patchy immune to basically all of her attacks except that (and I guess the physical one she uses really rarely). She also dodges like half of everything I throw at her which is mildly frustrating. I've been trying the "Poison and wait it out" strategy but that falls apart when her damage becomes obscene.
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Playing this again nothing surprise me until I look at the items I got after beating the evil nut eater :
Evil Spirit's Soul, Gekiken Rye Bread, Energy Gem, Affection Gem, 3 Tanned Hide, no Scarlet Light.
... 3 Tanned Hide ?
https://db.tt/PgacP8B0
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The other tanned hides is from the summons.
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It has summons, Leerius!
Anyway, I'm on the final boss still, and... it seems the final phase is always "Summon -> World Shaking Military Rule -> Start of Heavenly Demise" and Heavenly Demise just utterly destroys my team. Characters that easily took Tree Descending From Heaven when the boss was buffed up, just fall over :/ I've done this a few times and it seems like the only way I'd be safe is if I managed to get Flan to do double Starbow Break before Heavenly Demise goes off so that I can just off him. (Nitori's surely to be the one sending him into that phase so she'll not have the mp in time; maybe at that point though I should try to pull out Flan for the last phase-changing hit instead...)
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Heavenly Demise is a Spirit attack so that might help but I think what needs to be done is to try to knock it off with Tenshi's sword or attempt to debuff it with Hina or Reisen. I was able to take it on fighting it (barely) because I had Reimu (and strategist Byakuren) on the front line which causes all of my vanguard to take less damage from it altogether.
Also, why are the items not translated in that screenshot?
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I beat it with a Flandre super rushdown.
And now I get to enjoy getting my ass handed to me by all these strengthen bosses aaaaaaa. If only you could unlock Renko/Mari before beating every single one... in Hard Mode the mandatory level restriction is lifted after you beat the final boss, right? I don't think I care enough to bother anymore XD
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Yeah, after beating the final boss, it no longer restricts you level-wise. Not that it matters as the stat up cap in the Voile Library is pretty high.
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And yeah arm twisting is remarkable, and must be given to characters carefully. Imagind if kasen, remilia, alice, of any charcter eith high all around stats and a decen attack had maintnence. I dont know about toxologist cuz ive never ised one but their ailments are described as weak. So im not sure they would really be amazing even if application was easy. "Weak" might be an understatement though so who knows. Though maybe itd be good on a hexer too. I mean i dont know if arm twisting is SUPPOSED to amplify stat debuffs or not but seeing kogasa's mnd debuff make a resistant boss go from +100% to the negatives in one hi make me think its a possibility.
Naturally arm twisting would be most broken on characters like reisen, eiki, komachi, or someone with a debuff everything.
So, from what I'm hearing, Arm-Twisting and Maintenance are two of the best skills in the entire game...
A question: What do you guys think are the best 10 skills in the entire game of LoT2?
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After a much needed break, gonna map out Floor 9 tonight and do some more routing. Trying to decide how to handle Tenshi instead of just using Poison. like I did with Iku, though chances are I might have to resort to that. I doubt I can make Wriggle tank Tenshi's attacks though. Never used Team 9 but if I'm reading it right, I'll get the buffs even if it's just Wriggle, so that will help. Might have to return Momiji to being a Physical tank for this fight as well.
Already afraid of how I'm going to deal with 10-12F...
Edit: Actually, looking at data for the fight with Remilia and Sakuya, I noticed that Sakuya doesn't have Full Immunity to Death, but quite a high resistance. If anything, with Reisen's Intense Vertigo, and maybe Komachi's The Shinigami's Work with Short Life Expectancy, I MIGHT be able to make that fight more bearable.
Doubt it, but anyone have a save before the fight? Might be worth checking out since I have no idea when I'll get to them.
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You won't get the the buffs from synergy skills if there's only one character.
I wish that I could reset and assign skill points in the same menu.
At least it is better than pre-1.150, where assigning Lv-up bonuses, assigning skill points, and a single option to reset both at once were in all different menus.
It was rather inconsiderate.
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You won't get the the buffs from synergy skills if there's only one character.
....DAMMIT WIKI FOR YOUR WORDING!! (http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/jtv_user_pictures/chansub-global-emoticon-680b6b3887ef0d17-21x28.png)
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....DAMMIT WIKI FOR YOUR WORDING!! (http://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/jtv_user_pictures/chansub-global-emoticon-680b6b3887ef0d17-21x28.png)
????? The wiki says it right, at the least on most of them (I checked a few to make sure). It says "excluding herself" or something similar for each team skill description.
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????? The wiki says it right, at the least on most of them (I checked a few to make sure). It says "excluding herself" or something similar for each team skill description.
Axel confirmed idiot. A little sleep made me realize what I read wrong. @_@
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So, from what I'm hearing, Arm-Twisting and Maintenance are two of the best skills in the entire game...
A question: What do you guys think are the best 10 skills in the entire game of LoT2?
Maintenance
Extra Attack
Arm Twisting
Intense Vertigo
Overheat
Byakuren's 14% buff per turn.
To increase one's fighting spirit
Free-Spirited and Uninhibited Oni/Tormenting Nature
Ability to See the Boundaries
Royal People of the Noble Moon
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Its difficult to say really since many skills have unknown numbers attached. For example piercing attack migh be straight up better than royal moon blah blah depending on how muh pierces and such. I also dont know how much last fortress buffs by, could go on. I think maribel's ability to see boundries might be #1 though, and i feel majesty is in fact far better than byakuren's buffs. I mean having them all together owns yes, and byakuren being able to transfer them to others is great to, but in of themself, if i could have majesty or one of those buffs on other characters, id take majesty. Note though that the mag or atk buff might be a better choice for pure glass cannons like flan or whatever but that again is dependant on the character.
So i just beat hina in my current game and boy was it messy. Most of my cast cant help but apply some kinda debuff with their attacks but remi and niroti, but both were pretty weak to fire so i couldnt have em out for very long, particularly cuz that was te spell hina decided to toss at me like 2/3 of the time for te entire fight. I accidently silenced her with parsee by using small box (argh), then she buffed herself. So i whilped out byakuren to use her big spirit nuke, thinking the debuff wouldnt matter cuz hina already had buffs to "block" the debuffs. But it turns out that one of the stats ended up debuffed just a bit again, so hina buffed again (didnt reverse it, treated it like silence or terror or something and buffed all again instead). Argh. I beat her first try but it was really effing messy.
Incidently kraken wasnt too bad but it killed my china before i could even move a single character. Nuked her for like 400 twice before my first move, qq. Killed dem 8 eye serpent foes too, though the first stone of awakening was behind the 2nd, doh. Tried to get a 50 retreat achievement too but ran out of tp at escape #47 doh. I could have calculated it in advance but it was more like i ran twice anyway to scrag a foe at full everything and was like might as well put my 2 runs to use. Didnt work out though. Having a meteor drive will be nice for tenshi though.
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A new patch was released, it has the rest of the menus, changed skills, rocks, items, etc. stuff that don't include the story, other than the intro. You guys can find it in the OP of the translation thread.
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For example piercing attack migh be straight up better than royal moon blah blah depending on how muh pierces and such
It doesn't go through a lot. It will take care of those gelatin/slime things on the red/purple stratum that are nigh-invincible but have almost no hp, though.
Most of my cast cant help but apply some kinda debuff with their attacks but remi and niroti, but both were pretty weak to fire so i couldnt have em out for very long
Because of Maintenance, Nitori can patch up an affinity into a strong point pretty easily!
I accidently silenced her with parsee by using small box (argh)
huh
did Parsee have the main equip that inflicts SIL or something...? I think you probably just said the wrong move here
Anyway yeah, Ability to See The Boundaries can be pretty hilarious.
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I thought Alice was hard, F9 Tenshi is a nightmare. Almost wish I'd recruited Reisen instead of Kags now.
Any tips for the fight other than Weakness: poison?
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Poercing attack wasnt an example that i thought was indeed an example of not obviously better, but an example of having unknown #s causing difficulty to determine without actually trying everything out.
Maint is indeed good for insta high resist, but i sas not expecting a tough time with hina for the reasons i mentioned and didnt bother. And parsee landed silence cuz i didnt bother making sure her main item wasnt something like a sword of singing delusion =p
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I thought Alice was hard, F9 Tenshi is a nightmare. Almost wish I'd recruited Reisen instead of Kags now.
Any tips for the fight other than Weakness: poison?
From my experience in the fight not too long ago, what I did was:
-Bring Hina into the active party, and put some debuff resists on the rest of the party. Start with Aya, then have Hina debuff Tenshi 2-3 times. Since Tenshi will explode anyone with buffs, you can actually 'bait' her attack into the tank (Mokou or Komachi, really). I used Rinnosuke and Sanae for this, since I maxed out their Speed to be fast buffers/switchers.
-For offense, you might have to rely on RNG a bit, because what I did was bring in my nukers for just one buff, then switch them back out. I was able to hold the line long enough to stack Nitori, Suika and Yuugi to about ~60-70%, then since Tenshi's stats were kept down due to Hina, I was hitting moderately hard-- not at the same level of other bosses, of course, but you're shredding a little over 50k HP. You also get a few free shots when she Focuses, I guess.
Best of luck! :)
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Leaning Iron Mountain (monk subclass attack) works pretty well on 9F Tenshi, too. You need to max it so it ignores as much def as possible, though.
Forcing Tenshi to "explode" (lol) the person who has good buffs and is specially set up to take the attack is also a pretty great idea, it's what I did. But it depends on actually having a character with enough stats to pull it off (Or Mokou who can revive a few times if something goes wrong). Guardian Subclass is nifty to trying to pull it off due to it's self-buff (and/or various damage mitigations) and just having Reimu onfield can significantly reduce the damage taken too with Armored Ying Yang Orb.
I'm not sure if I was even debuffing her that time, though, so having atk/spd debuffs would surely make it way easier >_>;
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I thought Alice was hard, F9 Tenshi is a nightmare. Almost wish I'd recruited Reisen instead of Kags now.
Any tips for the fight other than Weakness: poison?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLSvZIdPVkE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLSvZIdPVkE)
I'll just post this video I saw again. :V
The strengthen part starts at 9mins.
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Yeah that monk leaning iron mountain attack is *good* for a subclass nuke. It doesnt just pierce defense well, but its damage is flat out respectable even on low defense enemies, and the delay is pretty standard.
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-video-
This was somewhat helpful, but he's really overleveled the CL for the encounter and I'm trying to go through the game at or 1 level below the CL.
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This was somewhat helpful, but he's really overleveled the CL for the encounter and I'm trying to go through the game at or 1 level below the CL.
Ya, just hoping it gives you some ideas, also bringing someone that can apply Heavy helps, not sure if Heavy still lowers defense.
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I actually went the debuff route personally since I cannot really reliably buff my characters without not risk getting a sword to the face, not to mention I had to do character reset so that some characters don't passively buff others on their turn (Aya's passive speed buff). Having Komachi + Minoriko also helps draw aggro from Tenshi as well.
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If someone else got the sword to the face, it means that the tank wasn't buffed enough.
The boss will always attack the left-most person with enough buffs(total of buffs is more than around 100%) if there is at least one person who has enough buffs.
Also beat the strengthened 9F boss with the Monk Momiji + Instant Attack trick. Took about almost an hour.
Thankfully got all 3 item drops, even when there was only 45% chance of that happening, with Nazrin and Rinnosuke.
Should've used Nazrin's Rare Metal Detector, but Poison didn't seem to work anymore, so I got lazy.
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After being beaten to a pulp repeatedly by the Magatama on floor 12 cause 10 of my teammembers were not capable of dealing damage to it (with one of them not being able to take a single hit) and I lacked healing I've replaced Satori with Rumia again.
She is basically a perfect fit in my party, providing Mystic and Dark damage of the piercing kind and having a group heal.
And I like Rumia. :V
But more importantly: I've run through floors 13 to 15 for a third time now and only just got the idea to make a proper map of them. I like maps.
And since I noticed that there is just a text-guide on the wiki, here they are:
If you either don't want to really bother with it again when playing for a second or more time or if you don't like this kind of puzzle or are just kinda sorta stuck, here are my maps that display which are the temperature-switches, how they modify it and which temperature is required for the different gates. They also show which holes lead to where.
Beware though: There's also the Post-game parts of the floors on those.
Floor 13 (http://i.imgur.com/Xa20SdH.jpg)
Floor 14 (http://i.imgur.com/IQy9BDB.jpg)
Floor 15 (http://i.imgur.com/449xCMw.jpg)
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Okay, I know that this may sound like a stupid question, but is the Diva subclass still as broken as all hell?
Also, is "Tome of Reincarnation" something that the game is still limited in number on, or have they remedied that?
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Okay, I know that this may sound like a stupid question, but is the Diva subclass still as broken as all hell?
Yup
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Hello everyone I'm back from the dead (not). My internet died, so I'm at the library. (۶ૈ ᵒ̌ Дᵒ̌)۶ૈ=͟͟͞͞ ⌨
Anyway, was basically grinding for gems on Ama no Murakumo, got a bunch so far. Need to grind more... Don't think there will ever be enough gem grinding though. I finally figured out a trick to defeat the sword in it's second phase without having to go through all the hassling stuff. Hyper buff Flandre, Reisen, and Kasen, wait for Kusanagi to do Great tree that descends from the sky, make sure everyone has at an ATB level of 9000 or more when it happens, then switch em out (along with Aya to increase everyone's speed) and just blow him up.
Also, why is Diva subclass to borked? I gave Aya Diva class, and it seems pretty funny.
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Yeah why broken. Seems that even "slow" bosses move faster than most of my party so killing everyone's action bar equally doesnt seem like it really gains me anything. I mean i can see how its good to speed i up or slow down if the boss' is near full and yours are not but thats hardly a game breaking scenario.
Now i you were overlevel and were faster than bosses that would be another story but that is rarely the case imo.
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Actually you can essentially make the boss not be able to act at all. Simply have one character invest everything in speed and nothing else and make them a Diva. Then have Aya just be as faster than your target by investing in speed only as well (which should be easier). For this example, I was using Cirno as a Diva so that her constant turn can potentially debuff the enemy's speed and if she gets a turn where the enemy has less than 7000 turn meter left, she can throw an icicle fall to potentially drop its speed down by 50%. Then it is a matter of "dance of the snail" + concentrate until it is Aya's turn whom also buffs allies speed. She uses her turn to give a free turn to someone else that is most likely constantly have their turn meter below 5000 due to constantly being moved back. With your turn being buff and enemy team being debuff in terms of speed, you can essentially constantly do this not allowing enemies to act at all. For best result, have Reisen on the front line for Intense Vertigo. The downside of this strategy is that it is very boring, in both ways that it is time consuming and that there isn't any excitement in defeating bosses this way.
Something to note is that the strengthened wasps are EXTREMELY fast and will outpace your fastest character regardless (I think they have 1300 speed) and debuffing them is rather difficult as well.
Protip: If you are farming gems, have just the necessary characters that you are going to use at full level while everyone else is at level 1 so that your average level is at or below 100. This gives you an additional gem or a training manual.
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It's pretty much like this.
Put all of Aya's level up boosts into her Speed Stat. Give her 3 Sub equips that raise this as much as possible, and for her Main equip, give her either Elixir of Mages, Orb of Earithin, or Yogurt Doll.
Give her Diva Subclass, put Skill points into SPD Boost, Dance of the Snail, and Teachings of Gensokyo's Fastest. For extra effect, add in Tengu's Wind for a passive speed boost.
Once a battle starts, Aya is at 10000 ATB. Everyone else will usually be at 5000. Dance of the Snail and you drop everyone to 0. Except Aya, who will be at 7500 due to post use. This means the boss needs to go from nothing to full for a turn, while Aya only needs 2500. Aya will most likely get the next turn, and once she does, you can see how much ATB the enemy gained and then go from there. With proper setups on other party members, they may even be able to get a turn before the boss, especially if Aya has Tengu Wind on, she's getting her turns faster and faster to where the 4000 post-use from Guidepost for the Advent of the Divine Grandson might not mean much to Aya. Now inflict Debuffs on the enemy, mainly Speed, and they'll most likely never get a turn while you can give allies turns thanks to Speed Buffs + Divine Grandson.
Can't say I've tried this on post-game bosses though Except Strengthened Final Boss
, but considering how ridiculously fast Aya was when I tried it [(Nearly 2000 Speed at level 228[Blame the person who gave me the save]) to the point where I could Concentrate 2 times in a row and still get a turn, I'm guessing this might work on most of them at least.
Could also try Dodging's idea as well of making someone else the Diva, Just make sure they can recover 4+ MP per Concentrate, more if you plan to use them for attacking.
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And now, for my reply to the fact that the Diva subclass is broken, which is in fact an idea as to how to fix the subclass as a whole:
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Spells:
Spell name: Swift Samba
Former name: Rhythm Dance
Old MP Cost: 4
Old Skill Point Cost: 3 per level
Old post-use Gauge: 75%
New MP Cost: 7
New Skill Point Cost: 5 per level
New post-use Gauge: 50%
Spell name: Minuet of Snail
Former name: Dance of the Cochlea
Old MP Cost: 4
Old Skill Point Cost: 3 per level
Old post-use Gauge: 75%
New MP Cost: 7
New Skill Point Cost: 5 per level
New post-use Gauge: 50%
Reason for changes: I'll be honest and say that I'm hoping that this will be enough of a nerf to make it so that it's not such a game breaker anymore, but not enough of a nerf to make these spells completely useless. Is this enough, or too much?
Skills:
Diva's Knowledge: Same as before, no change.
Song of Delight
Cost: 7
Max Level: 4
Effect: When the skill holder performs an action, everyone on the front line gain a (SLv)% buff to ATK, DEF, MAG, MND, and SPD.
Reason for change: In all honesty, I have no idea why this skill is part of the Diva's skill set at all. Makes me think that the developers simply put the skills that they had no other place to stick to onto this sub class(I personally think that the Strategist should be the one to have the EXP Up skill). Anyways, the new effect is effectively a watered down, yet more expensive version of Majesty, except that it's for the entire front line. Something tells me that this skill is OP in its current form, though...
Soothing Lullaby(formerly called Silent Melody): Same as before, no change.
Reason for change: "Silent Melody" is essentially an oxymoron, so the name change is written to imply that you're putting the enemy to sleep, and thus sneaking past them while they're taking a nap. To make sense, in other words.
Restful Melody (replacing Chime of Good Fortune)
Cost: 10
Max Level: 2
Effect: Makes the Rest command in the menu use less TP per use. This skill does not stack with other Divas possessing the same skill, and only the highest level of the skill will apply.
Reason for skill change: Again, I don't understand why this sub class even has this skill, and it doesn't even have the excuse of it being a skill that's exclusive to the Diva itself, as the Magician has the same skill under a different name. As for the new skill, it's a unique skill that doesn't affect you during battle, but outside battle, much like Soothing Lullaby, and making the Rest command less costly would allow for longer treks into the dungeon(even though this is one of the last classes that you'll get, so...), and help in getting longer winning streaks, which is kind of like having a EXP, Gold, and item drop boost all in one, if done correctly.
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And that's all that I have to say about it. What do you guys think of my idea?
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haven't used it so my opinion may be off but I think the class itself is really pretty crappy unless you use it with those extreme circumstances making it broken. Rather than nerf it so chances of being useable in that broken fashion is harder (and make it even less useful in every other situation as well). I'd think it' dbe better to actually buff the spells it gives in most ways... but debuff the enemy with something that has no resistance. like that "boost" buff or whatever, basically you cannot diva-ificate an enemy again unless their diva debuff thingie falls below a certain % again, perhaps 50? doesn't matter, wont happen anyway. But that IMO would prevent it from being abused in the way that it can be, without gimping its use in more traditional situations.
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Wow, floors 13-15 are great. Map traversal finally became a thing I needed to think about. I wish it had happened earlier.
As an aside, I whipped up a script to tell me all my characters' BP values. Figured it wouldn't hurt to share. Requires Python 3.3, but could probably be backported with little trouble. Just stick it in the your save folder (save/save1, for example) and run it from the command line. Note: will spoil the character roster--if that's important to you.
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Or you could just do this :P
http://i.imgur.com/O7Gy9LA.png
But if anything, this makes it so we don't need to do that so it's nice either way.
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Oh wow I didn't even know that screen existed.
Derp.
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Yeah, figures why that skill class is borked.
I really don't think Diva needs to be rebalanced, it seems fine as it is. It's good if you're trying to grind, have a team with a Diva, Keine, and Nazrin and look at all the exp you get for everyone! So I don't agree with the most of your changes @ Kirin no Sora.
Changing the name of Silent Melody to Soothing Lullaby makes more sense.
Also, having an ability that makes the rest command cost less TP is also very useful. Have a Diva and Chen and look at how little TP you lose! (When you run or rest)
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haven't used it so my opinion may be off but I think the class itself is really pretty crappy unless you use it with those extreme circumstances making it broken. Rather than nerf it so chances of being useable in that broken fashion is harder (and make it even less useful in every other situation as well). I'd think it' dbe better to actually buff the spells it gives in most ways... but debuff the enemy with something that has no resistance. like that "boost" buff or whatever, basically you cannot diva-ificate an enemy again unless their diva debuff thingie falls below a certain % again, perhaps 50? doesn't matter, wont happen anyway. But that IMO would prevent it from being abused in the way that it can be, without gimping its use in more traditional situations.
A buff for said spells, rather than a nerf, is a better idea? Hm...
Bearing in mind that these spells affect everyone on the field, I actually consider the Diva sub class as the "Hina Kagiyama" of the sub classes. That's to say that it runs on it's gimmick which seems, well, 'gimmicky' at first glance, but is in fact insanely powerful when properly set up. And as I figure it, nerfing how much it can reduce or increase the time bar won't help because messing with that messes up the gimmick.
Personally, I don't think that the Diva's spells are crappy at all if they can make a game breaker when combined with some fast characters, Ghaleon.
Yeah, figures why that skill class is borked.
I really don't think Diva needs to be rebalanced, it seems fine as it is. It's good if you're trying to grind, have a team with a Diva, Keine, and Nazrin and look at all the exp you get for everyone! So I don't agree with the most of your changes @ Kirin no Sora.
Changing the name of Silent Melody to Soothing Lullaby makes more sense.
Also, having an ability that makes the rest command cost less TP is also very useful. Have a Diva and Chen and look at how little TP you lose! (When you run or rest)
The EXP boost skill is okay on the Diva? I would of thought that the Strategist would be better suited for such a skill, seeing as you need the character out in the front to have any of said sub classes's other skills to work(also, you get the Strategist sub class sooner, so there will be more opportunity to make use of it during the main game).
I'm glad that you like the Restful Melody skill that I had thought up, and I'm glad that you think that Soothing Lullaby makes more sense. Thanks.
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Personally I think one of the issues is the Post Use Gauge for Dance of the Snail. 7500 is just way too high when you're lowering everyone's ATB by a full 5000 points(If Max level). Lowering it to about 2500 on Post Use would be better imo. This still allows a bit of ATB manipulation but doesn't break the game, just delays the enemy's turn.
I was going to include a small buff for it on the Player side, but then I thought that might be too much.
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Just hit 17F.
On the one hand, I can appreciate that they toned down the floor complexity from LoT 1. Fire stratum was fun, but most of the temperature puzzles were localized to a single area--you never had to set up multiple floors/areas at once to get somewhere. Purple stratum has "directional" warps, so it's very easy to understand a path at a glance. Both of these things meant I never had to write anything down or make a map.
But it still leaves me kind of wanting. 10F-12F in LoT 1 were amazing, and there hasn't been anything even remotely similar so far. Teleporter mazes (like 18F) were lame, but at least they gave floors character. I literally don't remember the layouts of any floors before fire stratum in LoT 2. They were just boring walk-a-thons.
LoT 2's dungeon design just seems so bland, even as they improved pretty much every other aspect of the game.
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The floors will keep going up in complexity, but I still don't really think you'll be much more satisfied than you are right now.
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Actually, thinking about 10F-12F in LoT 1...there have been a distinct lack of true multipart bosses. I think only the Remilia/Sakuya battle actually is? There are a plethora of "summoner" bosses though.
I hope some of the Touhou boss fights coming in the special disk are multipart: Marisa+Reimu, Moriya crew, Aya+Momiji, etc.
Edit: Team ⑨ fight would be incredible.
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Not really sure what you mean by multipart since the final boss is one, komachi is one, kaggy was one, pretty sure there were more. and entei was NOT a multipart boss in lot1 aside from killing one unlocking the power nuke for the other (cept reisen).
In any case, There are features in lot1 that were "better" than lot2. I prefer the music in 1, which is of course a matter of taste, but even if you do not there was more variety of music. More boss songs, a new bgm after every floor instead of every 3. A Diff song for each menu in the town, etc.
The floor exploration was also more advanced because not only were they 1 way walls, but the game was capable of having 2 spots on a grid separate from each other via a wall, lot2 cannot separate 2 explorable areas without having a full gap in between, so it isn't as capable of seeming nearly as maze-like.
I also felt that despite lot2 having 2 kinds of equipment you can wear, lot1 definitely had more variety and gaps in power in equipment. I also didn't keep count but I think lot1 had more bosses per floor on average as well.
Lot2 is still great and fun and I love it but it definitely did make some sacrifices in certain areas for sure imo.
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I think there's a pretty significant difference between bosses with different phases vs bosses with distinct parts. LoT 1 Eientei was absolutely a multipart boss. There were 3 different targets with different moves and resistances, that each had a different ATB bar. That's a completely different dynamic than 1 target.
Vanilla LoT 1 music remains my favorite. Special disk music and LoT 2 music are both similar grades of "okay but not as good" for me.
LoT 1's one-way paths are sort of emulated by warps, but not to the same extent.
I think LoT 2 has fewer bosses because some of them were "replaced" with FOEs. That said I think the FOE concept sort of fell flat for me (at least so far). FOEs in EO were interesting because they had unique movement patterns, and they could join battles in progress already if you took too long. LoT 2 FOEs basically just sit still until you get close, which essentially just makes them normal bosses that you can't retry on.
Also FOEs should've appeared on your map. Seriously.
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Time for multi-part FOEs.
When extra disk comes out, if they were gonna add more Touhou character bosses, I'd expect a lot of them to be multi-part. Eientei, Moriya... oh god, imagine fighting the whole SDM crew at once. *shivers*
And yeah, Diva being like the "Hina" subclass makes a lot of sense. Seems unintuitive but is actually quite powerful. Hina can even debuff through "star" level debuff resistance, which is silly.
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Imagine if Hina had arm twisting and/or intense vertigo...
Not sure if this is the case, but did LoT 1 added some things after their release? (not counting + disc)
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Not sure if this is the case, but did LoT 1 added some things after their release? (not counting + disc)
Quite honestly, I'm not sure anyone played LoT1 early enough to answer you. I think Plus Disk was already out when the english patch was finished, and even then, the versions where EVA worked were basically mythical, unattainable things to anyone. And it wasn't so popular to us before then.
e:Yeah, the first thread about the game on MotK was after the jap wiki already had all the info about Plus Disk up, and that was before the english patch was a thing. You'd need to find someone who lives in japan and bought the game before Plus Disk came out.
e:I'm stupid, the english patch was out already at the time
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From my memory, evasion worked partially in my first playthrough, which was 2.03 I think. It's been a long time, but I know basic attacks could miss, and that might've been it. No idea about 1.xx.
uhh, patch 2.06 gave Nitori's linear megawatt cannon a HUGE boost, catapulting her to her top-tier position. It might've also been FIR originally, but became non-elemental. The same patch also added NG+.
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I'm pretty sure Megawatt was only boosted in Special Disk; I know I tried to use her seriously some in Plus but Megawatt just wasn't all that good back then.
Unless 2.06 came out really, really late? We had to use a hacked file for NG+ anyway to avoid borked resistances, so I don't remember much about the official one.
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I thought megawatt was buffed separately from the plus disc myself. Also, it may have been a plus disc addition but what about the floor 20 enemies dropping their stuff at 5% for the first drop instead of 1%?
Back to music, yeah I meant I liked vanilla lot1 music. I actually disliked special disc music. Even if you count FOEs, I think lot1 still had more bosses, and yeah, the whole foe mechanic in lot2 was a bust imo. When they first said it would have FOEs I was really excited, but they really don't behave any differently than bosses in EO... they just camp one square until you get in range then they go towards you, then go back to their original position if you leave that "range". Except maybe the taur demon...not sure about that one. It kinda seemed like a normal foe but I swear its spawn poisiton was random or something, I dunno.
Arm twisting on hina might actually be bad because it might make it so she debuffs the rest of your party despite their own resistances too=P
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Back to music, yeah I meant I liked vanilla lot1 music. I actually disliked special disc music.
Vanilla LoT1 music was incredibly hype, and really went a lot towards making the game shine.
Special Disc music was highly meh with one or two exceptions that were alright. It's annoying that it didn't save your music choice option and always set to special disk music on startup.
That's part of the reason LoT2 isn't as hype, along with overall not-quite-as-interesting floor exploration and more subdued attack animations. Also a ton of the battle animations are flashy enough to make my eyes hurt, but that might be due to my monitor, which is bright even at lowest settings... (in LoT1 it was only a problem with like, Kaguya's Hourai Jewel)
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trash battles aren't as balanced in lot2 either imo. like in lot1 trash battles were more or less more and more difficult after every floor, and after you reach floor 13 each battle is exciting based on its challenge unless you were currently using a top tier trash cleaner in your group at that moment like flan, mystia, etc. Exceptions were those effing shadowcats on floor 2 which are balanced to be on floor 31 or something (yes I know it doesn't exist), slash diving zord fishes on 13f (the floor as a whole is actually easier than previous ones imo minus the chance of those fish), and 17f if you do not have a good fast aoe physical nuke when those gems appear.... Even the minibosses on 20f in lot1 were more exciting, both for potential loot drops, and challenge, and reward. Given the fact that you only lose 10tp when a character loses all their hp instead of being sent back to town in lot2, I think they should have been made alot more challenging a lot sooner than... I forget what floor it was where they finally started being a threat. 16f or 17f I believe.
However I do notice that most floors seem to have rarespawn trash enemies that are far more powerful but don't quite qualify as minibosses either. like on 4f there are 2 knights, one is level 12 and another 24 iirc, obviously I'm talking about the level 24 one, and 6f has sharks, and as a rare spawn there's some metal coloured shark. I don't really remember lot1 having this except for perhaps the solar demons on 19f.
It's really strange. lot2 is both more and less polished. I think the developer made some great advancements in terms of character customization, subclasses, acheivements that actually matter, etc. But in doing so he lost the ability to spend as much time/effort balancing the game from start to finish as effing masterfully (imo) as he did the first time. I wonder if it was that, or if 1 was just a crazy fluke on his part in that regard.
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All the characters are also a lot stronger in LoT2 and being able to freely switch levelup bonuses makes them MUCH more versatile; that might make doing randoms to be challenging, but not overwhelming, harder.
Although yes, you can pretty much just wipe almost all the randoms until you run into stuff like "jeez they resist like, everything" which is just plain annoying. The enemies on the last few floors being hard also seems a lot to be attributed to a resistance to actually spending your money on skills... because dang, those achievements for stockpiling it.
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I was always amazed at how static the setup for grinding in 20F was back in Labyrinth 1 because of just how efficient it was:
-Rinnosuke / Nitori / Flandre / Yukari
-Turn manipulation in that same order
-World Shaking Military Rule / Cannon / Starbow / Spiriting Away / Sword / Cannon / Laevateinn
-Get hueg exp/skills/everything
-Repeat
I hope the 20F fights in Labyrinth 2 aren't as static, because of the smaller MP pool... but we shall see. I'm at the 16-17F section with the full roster. :3
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If/when we do get an expansion-type update for LoT2, are there any characters from TD or DDC you'd like to be added?
I was thinking Miko would be an appropriate character for carrying World-Shaking Military Rule now that Rinnosuke doesn't have it, and that could be pretty fun. (Potentially overpowered since you can switch out characters with low TP in 2)
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I want hatate, despite her not being in either of those 2 games you have listed. I don't know why she's pretty much ignored by the fanbase compared to tenshi/suika/other Touhou #.x games. I understand newer characters are often less common in games than older ones but she's not THAT new anymore, and she's still rare as fuu.
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Didn't have to be TD or DDC, anyone who got left out could potentially be added. Hatate seems hard since she doesn't have any "real" [non-photo] spell cards, though, so her case is somewhat understandable.
You're right about her being ignored in doujinsoft for the most part though, what's up with that?
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Yeah, though Hina was probably even more maddeningly rare for her age until the TPW evo + vote thing. Her popularity seems to be much higher now though thankfully. Not sure what caused it, I always thought she was pretty cool myself.
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I'm pretty sure Megawatt was only boosted in Special Disk; I know I tried to use her seriously some in Plus but Megawatt just wasn't all that good back then.
Unless 2.06 came out really, really late? We had to use a hacked file for NG+ anyway to avoid borked resistances, so I don't remember much about the official one.
Pretty sure it was 2.06, not special disk.
For clarification, the English patch was for 2.04. 2.06 was never supported since it was kinda buggy (or something).
I thought megawatt was buffed separately from the plus disc myself. Also, it may have been a plus disc addition but what about the floor 20 enemies dropping their stuff at 5% for the first drop instead of 1%?
Back to music, yeah I meant I liked vanilla lot1 music. I actually disliked special disc music. Even if you count FOEs, I think lot1 still had more bosses, and yeah, the whole foe mechanic in lot2 was a bust imo. When they first said it would have FOEs I was really excited, but they really don't behave any differently than bosses in EO... they just camp one square until you get in range then they go towards you, then go back to their original position if you leave that "range". Except maybe the taur demon...not sure about that one. It kinda seemed like a normal foe but I swear its spawn poisiton was random or something, I dunno.
Arm twisting on hina might actually be bad because it might make it so she debuffs the rest of your party despite their own resistances too=P
The 1% -> 5% mechanic was special disk.
Regarding the music, I just want to remind everyone that LoT1's original music was freely available. That's why Rinnosuke's boss music was also used in Cosmic Break. It's also why it had absolutely nothing to do with touhou. Presumably LoT1 earned him enough money/success to get touhou-specific music in the special disk.
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Regarding the music, I just want to remind everyone that LoT1's original music was freely available. That's why Rinnosuke's boss music was also used in Cosmic Break. It's also why it had absolutely nothing to do with touhou. Presumably LoT1 earned him enough money/success to get touhou-specific music in the special disk.
I remember hearing the generic boss battle theme and post-battle themes in a few episodes of Kamen Rider Decade.
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Yeah and some boss fights like youmu's was also used in hollow world of god.
I cant believe dark a liar was free though
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Wow, 18F has both a real teleporter maze and a multipart boss. This is why I shouldn't be allowed to use words.
Hit 20F last night. I'm pretty sure 18F still has better grinding for now. I'm kinda feeling like I should swap out Kogasa at some point--she used to be important for sweeping trash, but I've been using Sakuya, Lord Queen Goddess of Garbage. It's amazing how much better she is than in LoT 1.
Edit: Character list for expansion? Well, assuming they're adding 12, I think every shmup playable character, final boss, and extra boss should have representation. This forces:
1. Miko
2. Koishi
3. Nue
4. Hatate
5. Sukuna
6. Raiko
7. Seija
8. Mamizou
And then based on my own preferences:
9. Akyuu
10. Futo
11. Kokoro
12. Shou (okay not really but this one's confirmed)
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I'm kinda feeling like I should swap out Kogasa at some point--she used to be important for sweeping trash, but I've been using Sakuya, Lord Queen Goddess of Garbage.
She can work pretty well on the final boss I... THINK...? Assuming you can actually make her deal any damage through the guy's defense. If not, well, you can build her as a tank, because arm-twisting on MND is still really important for any magic attacks, because goddamn his def/mnd count is stupid. And then terror on the side is okay I guess, at least if you have anyone on the team enabled by statuses.
She's good on one of the bosses you're about to have to fight, too. DRK is a pretty nice element in this game.
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Except maybe the taur demon...not sure about that one. It kinda seemed like a normal foe but I swear its spawn poisiton was random or something, I dunno.
As far as I can tell, the taur magician on 17F does have a set spawn point. It's just got a ridiculous range, something like "the entire south half of the floor", which is why it keeps chasing you in completely unrelated areas.
Also, personally, I'm not really betting on DDC characters being in - the full version of it only came out at the same time LoT2 itself did. Seems like it'd be a bit early to add them in, is all.
Really hoping for TD characters, though, especially Miko. Honestly, I'd say Miko (for TD rep and final boss rep), Koishi (extra boss + HM playable + Palace of the Earth Spirits), and Akyuu (hints at her being playable + that'd mean no NPCs) would be the three I'm really hoping for, with a variety of other characters lower on my priority list.
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9. Akyuu
How would you go about unlocking her?
Save over 100 times?
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I'd imagine it'd be a BP condition, since she *used* to show your highest BP character in LoT 1.
Something like "hit 1500 BP with any character".
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I really don't believe DDC characters should be in the game. It's a bit too early, imo. TD on the hand, I'm good with.
As I've said before, the characters I'd want are Koishi, Hatate, Miko, Futo, and Tojiko. Maybe Seiga/Yoshika/Mamizou could be added. (Poor Kyouko)
If Kyouko were to be added, I'd imagine her to be a support mystia type of thing.
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I also agree that it's a bit too early to see DDC chars, though it would be nice to see something like Seija reversing ATB gauges or Sukuna overstacking MP the same way Eirin overheals. :V
Hypothetically, let's say more chars are added to the next expansion/game or whatev. What would their roles be, you think? If Miko was introduced I think she would be a single-target dmg dealer, or Shou Futo being trash-clearers, or Koishi and Nue being some kind of support chars (like Nue changing element resists or such).
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If he is in fact adding 12, it's extremely likely characters from both TD and DDC will make the cut, since he'd have to start dredging the relative bottom of the barrel in fan popularity from older games to fill slots from unrepresented older characters in some cases, and even with the more popular ones, it might be a bit hard to find them a role either mechanically or story-wise.
The missing older characters:
EoSD - None
PCB - Letty, Lyrica/Merlin/Lunasa, Lily White
IN - None, I think
PoFV - Medicine
MoF - Shizuha
SA - Yamame, Kisume, Koishi
UFO - Ichirin, Minamitsu, Shou (already confirmed), Nue
DS - Hatate
GFW - Three Fairies of Light
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If he is in fact adding 12, it's extremely likely characters from both TD and DDC will make the cut, since he'd have to start dredging the relative bottom of the barrel in fan popularity from older games to fill slots from unrepresented older characters in some cases, and even with the more popular ones, it might be a bit hard to find them a role either mechanically or story-wise.
The missing older characters:
EoSD - None
PCB - Letty, Lyrica/Merlin/Lunasa, Lily White
IN - None, I think
PoFV - Medicine
MoF - Shizuha
SA - Yamame, Kisume, Koishi
UFO - Ichirin, Minamitsu, Shou (already confirmed), Nue
DS - Hatate
GFW - Three Fairies of Light
Daiyousei, Koakuma and Tewi would like to have a word with you. :V
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I have always been good at forgetting midbosses :(
(Yeah, you're correct. Although all three pretty much fall into a very ??? space as far as a mechanical role goes.)
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I can see Tewi being implemented if critical hits become a thing in the next Labyrinth. :3
The bad about it is that, like evasion, it works both ways... :ohdear:
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You also forgot mima as the periodic midboss in UFO. I KID I KID DONT SHOOT.
I dont expect midbosses to be included but i think the guy is so close to having a full cast otherwise that he should do it... Dont forget hatate though or else ill cry!
Medicine would be an easy addition too imo since she clearly would fit in the greatly lacking poison application role with wriggle.
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How would she differentiate herself from Wriggle, though? I imagine that she'd be more like the Toxicologist role, using different poisons to inflict different statuses...
But then, what would make her different from Toxicologists :V
By the way, how does one get to 9F of the extra areas? I want to battle the extra boss there, but I don't know how to get there. Does it have something to do with the rocks on 11F?
Also, these rocks: http://i.imgur.com/MGVt2Pf.png How to get past them?
What if Koishi has a skill that makes them invincible until their turn, but inflicts some debuff or something and has a low post-use gauge? ( Manipulating subconscious to make it seem as if they weren't there or something ) It would fail if the user is the only one left on the team.
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Go up the stairs and activate the right-most green circle.
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9f rocks require a variety of things. Mostly bp on several characters iirc. Check out the wiki for how to receuit yuuka to see.
11f rocks, dont remember which they are.
And there are countless ways medecine could be different. Having the same role doesnt really mean much. I mean china and momiji and tenshi are all tanks but they are plenty different. Medecine might debuff stats as well as cause psn. Or she might be less (or more but prob less) tanky, perhaps her poison is less potent but also has arm twisting enabling her to poison vietually anything. Theres just too many possibiliies to list. I just want another top tier psn user who has something different to offer if wriggle doesnt seem like a good fit for your current party setup.
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Oh, so the green circles work like that. Thanks.
When I said "rocks on 11F", I meant the circles :blush:
Sorry for causing confusion lols.
Also, I see what you mean.
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Something I can actually see Koishi do as a gimmick is suddenly performing one of her spellcards at random each 10k time bar and having her other personal skills revolve around that.
Not sure about this but it seems they aren't particularly using Koakuma or Daiyousei because they aren't exactly officially named characters as more they are fan-named.
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Oh man...
Well, I was getting frustrated with the sigil bosses on 20F, so I thought I'd try this whole "Diva" thing people have been talking about.
So I beat them both without them getting to move. Then I beat the slurping worm at level 95 without it getting to move. Then I beat the final boss (at the same level) without it getting to move. And then I beat the boss rush with only 1 of the bosses getting to move because I'm an idiot.
Holy shit. Nothing has ever been more broken in these games. Forget banning Kasen or Nitori--they're small fry compared to the wrath that is Diva Aya.
That said, this is my opportunity to actually use the broken things, since I certainly won't allow myself to once I start whatever run I'm going to do next. So whatever.
Entering 21F asserts and crashes. I assume I've done something terrible with patching, but I copied over all the files, so I'm not sure what.
Time to grind!
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http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/
(http://i.imgur.com/FjHaFvJ.png)
Futo has been confirmed for Append Disk!
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1. YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
2. She's far less loli than her official representation in Hopeless Masquerade would imply. :(
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Translation of the blog post
(http://i.imgur.com/FjHaFvJ.png)
Monotobe no Futo
Futo-chan
She has high Attack, Defense and Speed, but the rest is lower, she is suited to be a Middle to Rear Guard attacker.
Her abilities aren't as strong as Hijiri, but
after she learns the ability [Stacked Pile of Poisonous Plates], every time she uses a spell in battle
her [Eighty Sake Cup] will increases its stack by 1.
For every stack of her [Eighty Sake Cup],
she will deal more damage and take reduce damage.
Using Concentrate will consume a stack to restore herself
and give her attacks various ailment effects. (not sure about this)
In addition, when she learns the skill [邇藝速日命に捧ぐ神事の皿],
she will gain the ability [Recover MP for every stack of Eighty Sake Cup,
and gain increased damage reduction, and will go down to 1 HP if hit by a fatal attack].
And with the skill [大物主大神に捧ぐ神事の皿], she will gain the effect
[Recover HP for every stack on Eighty Sake Cup, and gain increased damage dealt]
However, she will only be able to benefit from [邇藝速日命に捧ぐ神事の皿] or
[大物主大神に捧ぐ神事の皿] at a time.
What Futo-chan will be will depend on your party composition.
(We'll translate the skill names once we have the game)
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Apparently she seems to have an altered version of Fighting Spirit except it will be consumed when you use concentrate to restore her HP(?) as an emergency charge while the stacks can either increase HP regeneration per turn + damage or MP + guts. From the description of her stats, she seems like a moderate survivability or a semi-glass cannon of a sort, at least initially.
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It should be noted Futo should use her own spells to increase the stack, instead of something like subclass spells.
By accumulating "Eighty Sake Cups", Futo can do various things such as :
Dealing more damage, reducing received damage by using up a stack, using up all stacks to heal herself when she Concentrates,
changing single-target attacks to all-target attacks, or increasing the number of status ailments she inflicts with spells.
Usually, the Japanese language don't really differentiate between plural and single, so the last 2 could mean slightly different things.
The two skills should be
Ritual Plate offered to Nigihayahi no Mitoko
Ritual Plate offered to Oomononushi no Ookami
Nigihayahi no Mitoko said to be the founder of the Mononobe clan who descended from the skies, riding the Ame no Iwafune.
I can't really find the relation between Oomononushi and Futo, if there is one.
This god is the same god that appears in the legend of the White Hare of Inaba, if it is supposed to mean anything. Probably nothing.
I don't really like Japanese gods. They are headaches.
And her abilities aren't as strong as Shou's.
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YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, Futo is in Lot2 expansion, weeee!
And this Futo art is a million times better than HM art, honestly. I don't like her HM art at all.
@ Ghaleon Oh pls, we all know that was Nue. *disapproving stare*
Also, since people are talkin about LoT2 possible character ideas, I decided to just make a paste of my ideas. http://pastebin.com/X555WiL1
A lot easier that way.
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The two skills should be
Ritual Plate offered to Nigihayahi no Mitoko
Ritual Plate offered to Oomononushi no Ookami
Nigihayahi no Mitoko said to be the founder of the Mononobe clan who descended from the skies, riding the Ame no Iwafune.
I can't really find the relation between Oomononushi and Futo, if there is one.
This god is the same god that appears in the legend of the White Hare of Inaba, if it is supposed to mean anything. Probably nothing.
The only link I see is that Oomononushi is a Shinto deity and the Mononobe clan was a Shinto clan as well.
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@ Ghaleon Oh pls, we all know that was Nue. *disapproving stare*
Every new Touhou game MUST have some crazy nutjob mima conspiracy theorist, since this thread seems to have none, it looks like I have to step up to be that person.
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Every new Touhou game MUST have some crazy nutjob mima conspiracy theorist, since this thread seems to have none, it looks like I have to step up to be that person.
But what about Shinki?
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"Oomononushi's Dinner" was Futo's last spell card on all difficulties in TD. Dunno about other connections, of course.
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"Oomononushi's Dinner" was Futo's last spell card on all difficulties in TD. Dunno about other connections, of course.
The spellcard is named Oomonoimi (大物忌) while this skill is Oomononushi (大物主). It doesn't seem to be an alternative title either.
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Huh.
My Gambler Flan just killed herself with Starbow Break.
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That happens when Flandre has exactly the same amount of HP she is going to lose. Small bug.
The bug can be reproduced quite easily by having Flandre shoot Lv.5 Starbow Break 5 times, with her max HP being a multiple of 5.
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Interesting.
Is there any way to farm Kanenoki Kabans, Small Discount Sets, or Weekly Item Discovery Dens? I've beaten it and I only have 5, 10, and 9 respectively.
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Sorry but what was the name of that group that provided most (all? doubt it) of Lot1s free music? I wanna check out their stuff and potentially use it myself for something.
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There is a chart in the Japanese wiki.
http://www19.atwiki.jp/th_maze/pages/108.html
SHW : http://shw.in/
煉獄庭園 : www.rengoku-teien.com/
音の社 : http://www.otonomori.info/
KMF : http://www.kazamit.com/
ASOBEAT : http://www.yonao.com/asobeat/
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yay thanks!
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Yay, a birthday gift, Futo confirmed!
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Translation of the blog post
(http://i.imgur.com/FjHaFvJ.png)
Monotobe no Futo
Futo-chan
She has high Attack, Defense and Speed, but the rest is lower, she is suited to be a Middle to Rear Guard attacker.
Her abilities aren't as strong as Hijiri, but
after she learns the ability [Stacked Pile of Poisonous Plates], every time she uses a spell in battle
her [Eighty Sake Cup] will increases its stack by 1.
For every stack of her [Eighty Sake Cup],
she will deal more damage and take reduce damage.
Using Concentrate will consume a stack to restore herself
and give her attacks various ailment effects. (not sure about this)
In addition, when she learns the skill [邇藝速日命に捧ぐ神事の皿],
she will gain the ability [Recover MP for every stack of Eighty Sake Cup,
and gain increased damage reduction, and will go down to 1 HP if hit by a fatal attack].
And with the skill [大物主大神に捧ぐ神事の皿], she will gain the effect
[Recover HP for every stack on Eighty Sake Cup, and gain increased damage dealt]
However, she will only be able to benefit from [邇藝速日命に捧ぐ神事の皿] or
[大物主大神に捧ぐ神事の皿] at a time.
What Futo-chan will be will depend on your party composition.
(We'll translate the skill names once we have the game)
You guys, you do know that if this girl is here, then Miko is obviously going to show up. I would actually be surprised if she didn't(and it could be that you would have to fight her as a boss, too).
Also, this increases the chances of a certain tanuki appearing as well, given that she came from the same game and that she's a popular character overall. Again, I would be surprised if she didn't show up.
The spellcard is named Oomonoimi (大物忌) while this skill is Oomononushi (大物主). It doesn't seem to be an alternative title either.
Maybe the game makers made an error in their writing or research of the character...
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Shou and futo are probably like the 2 least interesting possible characters to be added from their respective games for me =P. But yeah, as someone pointed out 12 is enough that there's generally most of all of them to be added regardless so I'm not gonna complain unless hatate gets excluded completely again.
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Personally, I would want the other Aki sister to be included in all this. I mean, it can't be hard to do so, seeing as "Falling Leaves of Madness" from the first game was Shizuha's spell, not Minoriko's(which is why the names were changed in LoT2), and she could be made as a naturally evasive nature mage(or bruiser, if I remember the comments for her "Falling Blast" spellcard from DS correctly) who can make everyone else more evasive as well.
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I was playing a new save file and I accidentally saved it in my main save file which I spent 70+ hours on :(
I am sad, very sad.
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I was playing a new save file and I accidentally saved it in my main save file which I spent 70+ hours on :(
I am sad, very sad.
That's a sad thing indeed. But at least there's something to be learned from it: Always keep a backup of your save-folder!
On another note: I've finally found out how exactly the "HP recovery" stat works, at least in conjunction with "Easygoing":
The amount of Recovery-stat you have gets doubled and the result is the amount of %-HP that is recovered upon concentrating.
It's really quite silly with Renko, who reached 25k HP at around lvl100 with 30 recovery stat for me. She's basically a sponge now that wrings itself out over and over again.
Lacks MP-recovery though and can't do much else this way. :V But I've also noticed that she and Mari aren't quite as good as I thought from reading about them here.
I've started post-game now and Mari is still really squishy (which is to be expected, but she can at least take Mystic, Dark and Spirit reasonably well for an offensive character) and doesn't really deal a whole lot of damage.
She's good at healing though, so that's a plus. But I also have Hina who can just debuff everything to hell and back, no matter the resistance so Mari's buff-flipping passive is not really all that useful to me.
Renko is kinda meh for me as well, considering that I always have Hina out which makes me reluctant to use Charge too much and Galaxy Stop seems to fail more often than not to do anything but reduce my own ATB.
This might also all just be caused by the fact that my core party of Hina, Yuuka, Moriya Clan and Rumia is just too good. (Or I just can't bother with changing my setup which consists of Hina in the left slot, who tanks everything thanks to Hexer-subclass giving passive recovery and being at effectively +100% all the time, Yuuka in second to left who tanks everything else that gets thrown out, deals consistently high damage and has good utility and the rightmost slot for Kanako 90% of the time with Suwako, Sanae, Rumia and Suika switching through the remaining one.
I'll see how everything works out now in post-game.
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Maribel I haven't gotten exactly good usage of myself yet though probably due to Nitori still overshadowing her and her stats not fully developed though her damage is starting to come nicely.
On the other hand, Renko was immediately useful to me thanks to her skill set. Maintenance is the main one and because that you won't be using her for offensive purposes, she can be give purely defensive gears making her extremely tanky. Also she has natural regeneration when she has Maribel on the field (not unlike Komachi) and can heal herself with concentration (not unlike Meiling) plus her presense gives ailment resistance to everyone else. Charge is actually a pretty strong party buff and enhancer improves on it while reducing the charge damage infliction. This is particularly important when you have two bosses' minion that can dispel everyone's buffs.
And with Futo being confirmed, that would mean TD's door are open. Not sure about HM and DDC though.
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I think Kokoro has high chances but DDC characters don't have any chances.
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Kokoro isn't as new as the DDC, but she herself is somewhat new. So Kokoro is kind of borderline, if get what I mean.
I really don't see Shizuha or Kisume being added at all.
Letty is a weird one, but unlikely (same goes for Yamame), Koishi is a possible choice, and Miko seems really likely at this point. Maybe some other UFO characters (Minamitsu maybe?)
And of all the TD characters that could be added, I see Miko and Mamizou being the most likely.
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It's worth considering lot2 already has some oddball characters we wouldn't have guessed be added if they weren't int he game already such as momiji and kasen.
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My brother loves Shou (and also her song) so he's already satisfied, but I need to see Hatate and Nue to be happy (Yes, Futo is not the only one I need to satisfy me).
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...and I believe that we are about to hit the topic post limit. Figured that I should point this out.
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So, the final sub gear on page 5...should I have gotten that after I beat the final boss? Or is it after the strengthen version?
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So I was thinking about if some characters were put in the plus disk (Not including those already confirmed obviously)
I only thought of spellcards and stat growths, skills would be a lot of effort for just speculation
So, anyway (I dont know how to spoiler pls halp)
Letty Whiterock
HP: B- ATK: E DEF: B- MAG: B MND: E SPD: E EVA: E
Spells - All spells use mag
Cold Sign: Cold Snap
Multi target weak cold damage, decent chance to inflict shock. Leveling up increases shock chance
Winter Sign: Flower Wither Away
Multi target weak nature damage, debuff to attack, magic and speed. Leveling increases debuff percentage
Mystic Sign: Table Turning
Multi target medium mystic damage, lowers timebar by 1/2 for random encounters, 1/8 for bosses. Leveling increases damage
White Sign: Undulation Ray
Single target strong cold damage, no extra effects. Leveling increases damage, lvl5 adds a chance to shock
Hatate Himekaidou
HP: E ATK: B+ DEF: D- MAG: E MND: D- SPD: A EVA: A+ (Better than Chen/Aya)
Spells: All spells use atk
Continuous Shooting "Rapid Shot"
Single target medium wind damage,can't miss. Levelling increases damage
Far-sightedness "Tengu Psychography"
Single target medium dark damage, lowers mind and magic. Levelling increases debuff percentage
Photography "Full Panoramic Shot"
Single target medium spirit damage, lowers attack and defence. Levelling increases debuff percentage
Photography "Secluded Paparazzi"
Single target medium wind damage, lowers speed. Levelling greatly increases debuff percentage
Tewi Inaba
HP: B- ATK: B DEF: B- MAG: C MND: B SPD: C+ EVA: C-
Spells: all spells are composite except ancient duper which is atk only
Ancient Duper
Row target high phys damage, low chance of small para. Levelling increases para chance.
Runaway Rabbit "Fluster Escape"
Multi target low phys damage, high chance of med para. Levelling increases damage
Rabbit Sign "Great Fortune Crest"
Single target healing spell that buffs defensive stats. Levelling increases buff
Medicine Melancholy
HP: D ATK: E DEF: D MAG: B MND: C SPD: B EVA: B
Spells: All use mag
Poison Sign "Nerve Poison"
Multi target medium nature damage, high chance of weak para. Levelling increases effect
Poison Sign "Melancholy Poison"
Same as nerve poison except inflicts silence and terror
Fog Sign "Gassing Garden"
Same as nerve poison except inflicts heavy
Poison Sign "Poison Breath"
Same as nerve poison except inflicts poison
Confusion "Into Delirium"
Single target high dark damage, medium chance of shock,levelling increases effect.
Ichirin Kumoi
HP: B ATK: A DEF: B MAG: E MND: B SPD: D EVA: 0 forever
Spells: All use atk
Iron Fist "An Unarguable Youkai Punch"
Single target high phys damage, high chance of shock. Levelling increases damage
Lightning "Electrified Nyuudou"
Single target high wind damage. Most accurate of ichirin's spells. Levelling decreases delay (Reduces delay by 1000 per level)
Fist Sign "Wind-Killing Confession"
Multi target high phys damage. Levelling increases damage
Barrage "King Kraken Strike"
Row target high cold damage. Levelling increases damage
Rage "Calamity Scolding Scorch"
Self max atk buff, debuffs speed and mind. Levelling decreases debuff percentages
Minamitsu Murasa
HP: A (Below komachi but still pretty high), ATK: D DEF: B MAG: E MND: B+ SPD: Slightly slower than patchy EVA: D
Spells: All composite
Ghost "Sinker Ghost"
Single target low cold damage, greatly reduces speed. Levelling increases debuff %
Flood "Venus of the Bilge"
Multi target healing spell, not that fab for healing but cures ailments. levelling increases healing
Harbor Sign "Phantom Ship Harbor"
Multi target low dark damage, completely bypasses defences
Well that's all for now :P
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So, the final sub gear on page 5...should I have gotten that after I beat the final boss? Or is it after the strengthen version?
That's after the strengthened version.
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Strengthen final boss complete.
And I still don't have the 3000 battles achievement. Oh well, not gonna worry about it. Now I need to decide if I'm going to do my random run next, or my Team 9 run.
Choices...
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Hello again!
I beat the final boss on floor 20F, but I'm a little confused on where to start the post-game. The only thing that appears to have changed is getting an achievement (assuming the final boss always stays there like Maribel/Winner in LoT1 and I didn't glitch the game somehow). There's supposed to be a Boss Rush on Floor 20, but nothing appeared on my map? Was there something else I had to do?
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The boss rush is through the rock to the NE of the Depths waypoint.
You are also now able to pass by the rocks just SW of the final boss, which lead to the stairs to 21F. There's not really much you can do there now though.
On 12F, you can now pass through some rocks you couldn't before.
On 16F-18F, there's a subquest to get the last two characters. Once again, rocks lead the way.
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I think you need to recruit everyone else aside from Renko and Maribel before the boss rush appears. After the boss rush, you can fight stregthened versions of non-character bosses that are found at their respective area. I think you will also fight the deformed bosses (Maribel's summons from LoT1).
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I think the boss rush 20 levels higher than the final boss is the first/easiest thing to do. after that not sure.. strengthen bosses? The extra floors found from 12f are doable but pretty rough.
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The extra floors found from 12f are doable but pretty rough.
Oh wow I wasn't even aware of these. I totally forgot about those rocks. I should try these out since I already ground up to like lv13x >_>; (It's not so bad when half your characters oneshot the encounters... and you start getting almost double exp from battle chains)
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Well yeah i mean they are prettyrough at level 100 =p
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Even if they're recent, DDC characters might have some potential in terms of Spellcards and Skillsets.
Well the ones I can think of wouldn't work, but I'm sure there's something. Just give me Raiko at least. Party? Hell no! Raiko will be so good she'll march at the beat of her own drum!
I regret nothing.
Murasa would be nice. Dropping anchors on enemies sounds fun already.
Oh and Mima. Show some PC-98 some love devs.
AND GENJI!! HE CAN BE THE NEW TANK!!!
Now excuse me while I let myself out.
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Decided to do a Team 9 run.
Pretty sure I need to beat 6F Tenshi.
Edit: Uhhh...I just loaded my finished save to check Tenshi's bestiary entry, and when I loaded my Team 9 save, it gave me both Deformed Boss achievements. And now, even when I close out and reload from scratch, it still gives me the achievements, as though loading my old save irrevocably changed something.
Anyone know which file houses the achievements?
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Well yeah i mean they are prettyrough at level 100 =p
Oh, I was talking about grinding on 20f to gain tons of levels being not too bad! Since I've been doing that and then dropping two people to lv1 to cheese most of the strengthened bosses >_> I did a few of them fairly, and then went "YEAH I don't feel like changing up my party for these, cheese time."
Not to mention a few of them just seem obscene at the challenge level.
e:These extra floors are very difficult to handle simply from battle to battle even now... were you using Kaguya to wipe them all or something
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I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but does the enhancer's percentage heal skill when buffed work with ran's super fast arithmetic skill?
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No kaggy. Just was fighting them like bosses kinda where i would buff and stuff. I didnt complete them though i just went right, explored most of the area to grab all the treasures then decided i was doing the wrong postgame content first.
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I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but does the enhancer's percentage heal skill when buffed work with ran's super fast arithmetic skill?
From what I read, it works at regularly with the vanguard and half efficiency for the reserves.
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The boss rush is through the rock to the NE of the Depths waypoint.
You are also now able to pass by the rocks just SW of the final boss, which lead to the stairs to 21F. There's not really much you can do there now though.
On 12F, you can now pass through some rocks you couldn't before.
On 16F-18F, there's a subquest to get the last two characters. Once again, rocks lead the way.
Thank you for answering! However, I'm not sure where these rocks on 20F are? Here's a picture of my map:
(http://i.imgur.com/R9mYwFz.jpg)
The only rock that hasn't been passed through is the 88 achievement one, and nothing new has appeared. I have all characters besides Maribel and Renko.
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Rocks on 12f not 20f
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No, there are rocks on 20F (as well as 12F). My guess is that you're not fully up to date. Remember that the translation patch will list you as 1.203(?) even if you haven't patched up to there yet.
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@ Kirin no Sora I personally would rather have Hatate be a magic attacker than physical attacker.
Axel Ryman Anything but Mima pls. It must be Yumemi, the superior PC-98. YOU ALL KNOW SCIENCE IS TRUE POWER.
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No, there are rocks on 20F (as well as 12F). My guess is that you're not fully up to date. Remember that the translation patch will list you as 1.203(?) even if you haven't patched up to there yet.
Well you see... I can see on your map that you have already explored beyond both the 20f rocks so err. Yeah
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Well you see... I can see on your map that you have already explored beyond both the 20f rocks so err. Yeah
You never saw my map.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/9u807n.png)
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Sorry to be a bother but can I still ask LoT1 questions here?
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Yes you can.
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I don't understand how you're supposed to do the postgame magatama/mirror fights. Mirror resists everything on not-kaguya that can get through it's def/mnd (which flandre still can't pull off herself at max buffs, 40 levels overleveled) and I've only just become able to even hope of doing the magatama, but I have to manage to land several def debuffs in a row (which it heavily resists) and then hope the fight goes well because it's certainly not won yet.
Do I really have to just give up and use Kaguya? That seems like a really lame solution. Even with Shikieki I think the Mirror resists, although maybe she'd be fine due to sheer power? (I'm not using her, but I might mega-pump her for this and then reincarnation it off, if she can allow me to do both bosses. I know I'll have to pull out Tenshi for the strengthened Azure Giant and Memorized Knowledge)
You never saw my map.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/9u807n.png)
And the answer is...
...yes, you passed through all the 20f rocks already. I'm not sure what you're confused about.
Sorry to be a bother but can I still ask LoT1 questions here?
'course!
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...yes, you passed through all the 20f rocks already. I'm not sure what you're confused about.
suzushinayuriko asked where the 20F rocks were. I was showing them. That's all there is to it.
Regarding those bosses, you should just go ahead and ignore the challenge levels period. They're entirely irrelevant. You just need to grind more.
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This might be a bit odd but I'm about to get the game from Melonbooks DL and I see that I can buy the normal, + and special disk. The + is cheaper so I'm guessing it's just an update expansion, but the special disk is a bit more then the normal version. Do I have to buy all three or can I just buy the special disk and have all the content?
Second question, I watched a few lets plays, and played the demo (not all the way but just enough to know, I REALLY WANNA PLAY!) and seen that you gain skill points after each battle and can use those points to increase characters stats. What would be a good way to use those points? Should I avoid giving points to someone who doesn't use that stat like Remilia and Mag? (Although I see that Curse gives Mag a 60% boost but no attacks that use it as a damage modifier.) (Oh I already know about EVA, made that mistake in the demo.)
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Special disk has everything alone. Yes do not spend skillpoints on stats that are not used. Suggested use of skillpoints is to divide them relatively evenly amongst your cast since the increasing cost punishes you for spoiling one character too much.
Dont neglect very minor stats though like patchy def and hp and such... Its not wise to spend as many points into those stats as others but halfway thru the game when pumping a stat you are using costs 1000s, even if the return is small, boosting patchy's low defense for just 5-100 skillpoints will be a good deal!
Also dont spend points on speed for the first floor or two, it wont bump it up at all until you start seeing your speed naturally grow on its own a few points after a dozen or so levels.
Also dont spend levelup bonuses on sp ever, prov not hp either for anyone other than komachi.
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suzushinayuriko asked where the 20F rocks were. I was showing them. That's all there is to it.
Oh I mixed up who was asking, sorry!
Also ugh, I need to grind even more? This might be lazy of me because in one trip (admittedly a long trip) in 20f I can get the exp for like 11 more levelups due to the power of battle win chains, but... I'm already nearly immune to the boss's attacks, it's just that their def/mnd are unsurmountably high. I could chip at the mirror with Rumia but I'd probably lose her to an accident in the painfully dumb amount of time it'd take. At least Flan and Nitori are getting through the def barrier on Magatama some so I can see a light at the end of the tunnel there. I feel bad for it but I'll probably just have to throw a buttload of yen into their ATK stats (which are already heavily pumped) and make them carry even longer; my other attackers haven't been relevant outside of random battles since like... fighting Yukari on 15f. It's depressing, but too many bosses just have stupid amounts of def/mnd and Nitori in full atk build is still a great tank because lol maintennance so it's so easy to make her pull all the offensive weight.
@Colticide:You only need to buy the Special Disk. (I recommend usually toggling the music to the original versions though, which you can do at Akyu's) And yes, characters with magical attacks have no use for ATK and vice versa. Best way to spend skillpoints is to concentrate on their most important stats and only boost the others to as much as is cheap; glass cannon characters need their ATK or MAG far more than other stats, Cirno mostly only needs to go before enemies so she can paralyze them, your support characters need lots of HP/DEF/MND so they can survive attacks, and average attackers need just enough defenses to survive stray hits going their way. Similarly, don't worry too much about leveling affinities until they start getting pretty cheap, although fixing up weaknesses is a little more important when it's not prohibitively expensive. But yeah, like Ghaleon said, level stats up when the cost is really cheap; even Patchouli can use the pathetic boost to her HP and she can survive physical row attacks in the back with just a little DEF.
The levelup bonuses are more of a worry because you can never reassign them in the first game, and messing up with the skillpoints isn't a big deal because a few floors later the wasted points add up to almost nothing; with the experience level bonuses generally you should just pick the character's most important stat and devote every single levelup bonus to that one only (a character meant for support will always want def or mnd, not mag to boost heals or anything like that; do that with equips because later the heals will be strong without a mag build) Some characters for tanking might be better off splitting it between def/mnd evenly, though, and in rare cases you might consider a tankier attacker to take a few levels in def or mnd (although I personally don't think it's worth it)
Also dont spend levelup bonuses on sp ever, prov not hp either for anyone other than komachi.
Building Komachi for HP in LoT1 really isn't worth it IMO, she's a fairly decent attacker in an ATK build and since she takes boatloads of damage from things even squishies take 0 from, she can't tank no matter how much HP she has and it's hard to upkeep heals on her. In a normal build she still has the HP sponge to take a hit or two like a champ, she's better off being able to actually hit things along with it.
also it's funny but her cld attacks can deal okay damage against the huge amount of fir weak bosses, which is an economical alternative to her SPI nuke
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Special disk has everything alone. Yes do not spend skillpoints on stats that are not used. Suggested use of skillpoints is to divide them relatively evenly amongst your cast since the increasing cost punishes you for spoiling one character too much.
Dont neglect very minor stats though like patchy def and hp and such... Its not wise to spend as many points into those stats as others but halfway thru the game when pumping a stat you are using costs 1000s, even if the return is small, boosting patchy's low defense for just 5-100 skillpoints will be a good deal!
Also dont spend points on speed for the first floor or two, it wont bump it up at all until you start seeing your speed naturally grow on its own a few points after a dozen or so levels.
Also dont spend levelup bonuses on sp ever, prov not hp either for anyone other than komachi.
Don't stats gain bonuses as you level up if you have points invested? I had Sakuya with a boost to her HP (I'll explain why in a bit) and when I leveled up later down the line I made a whole 100 extra hp from that.
I can see the speed being an issue but with Sakuya a few levels into spd and a level or two she already gets a few speed points to use.
When I was on the demo I gave Reimu and Marisa SP bonus and I'd say it made healing a DEF buffing and I had access to master spark super early.
I found an old list I did a while back and using the Wiki page on the game made a list of characters best stats and focused on those (like in pokemon and EVs).
EX: Remilia
HP (S)
ATK (S)* (Since she has a lot of S rank skills I when with the one I would use in the long run, Meiling replaces her as the tank and over time Remi will use just ATK anyway and supports her spells modifier as well.)
DEF (S)
MND (B)
SPD (S)
Would a set up like this be ok?
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Also ugh, I need to grind even more? This might be lazy of me because in one trip (admittedly a long trip) in 20f I can get the exp for like 11 more levelups due to the power of battle win chains, but... I'm already nearly immune to the boss's attacks, it's just that their def/mnd are unsurmountably high. I could chip at the mirror with Rumia but I'd probably lose her to an accident in the painfully dumb amount of time it'd take. At least Flan and Nitori are getting through the def barrier on Magatama some so I can see a light at the end of the tunnel there. I feel bad for it but I'll probably just have to throw a buttload of yen into their ATK stats (which are already heavily pumped) and make them carry even longer; my other attackers haven't been relevant outside of random battles since like... fighting Yukari on 15f. It's depressing, but too many bosses just have stupid amounts of def/mnd and Nitori in full atk build is still a great tank because lol maintennance so it's so easy to make her pull all the offensive weight.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. It's insane how many bosses just take 0 damage from things throughout the game. DEF/MND values on bosses are just, in general, astronomically too high, even before postgame.
Kasen's super good against Magatama. She can quite literally punch through its defenses.
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Kasen's super good against Magatama. She can quite literally punch through its defenses.
Even Nitori's super scope is barely getting through at max buffs (and if the buff falls below like 70% she hits 1s again), by the time Kasen can damage it I can probably just slaughter it using Flandre instead. Between Nitori being several times tankier and stronger than Kasen or Kanako or Yuuka, and a glass cannon assistant to punch a whole in some bosses, I really question what use my other attackers are worth :/ I've been debating benching them for more glass and having just one bulky attacker on the side instead of three or four since most of the time they really just can't do anything at all.
When I was on the demo I gave Reimu and Marisa SP bonus and I'd say it made healing a DEF buffing and I had access to master spark super early.
It's nice at first, but it quickly becomes less important... and then later in the game, it'll really suck to not have the extra MAG or defensive power. The farther you get, the more of an impact your levelup bonuses have; and this is a game where damage formulas just directly subtract defense from the potential damage, so a little ATK or DEF can be the difference between large damage or a big fat zero. This is also why it's not worth using levelup bonuses on HP, because it's better to just stop the damage with DEF or MND (although it's certainly important in skill point levelups)
The stats don't exactly gain extra bonuses as you level up by having points invested; they kind of do, but it's just a matter of... it's like putting on equipment? The stat will be higher, yes, because you have a bonus applied to it. But it doesn't matter when or how that bonus comes around- it's increasing the same amount per level either way, it's just the end result will be bigger if you have those special bonuses allocated to it.
You don't need to worry about making special lists like that; just pick a stat for the character to use the LevelUp bonus on, and favor their important stats a bit more than the others in the library. You should get a feel for it before long, and if you mess anything up in the first several floors, well... you'll be making that many skillpoints in just a battle or two later in the game, so it's fine.
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It's nice at first, but it quickly becomes less important... and then later in the game, it'll really suck to not have the extra MAG or defensive power. The farther you get, the more of an impact your levelup bonuses have; and this is a game where damage formulas just directly subtract defense from the potential damage, so a little ATK or DEF can be the difference between large damage or a big fat zero. This is also why it's not worth using levelup bonuses on HP, because it's better to just stop the damage with DEF or MND (although it's certainly important in skill point levelups)
The stats don't exactly gain extra bonuses as you level up by having points invested; they kind of do, but it's just a matter of... it's like putting on equipment? The stat will be higher, yes, because you have a bonus applied to it. But it doesn't matter when or how that bonus comes around- it's increasing the same amount per level either way, it's just the end result will be bigger if you have those special bonuses allocated to it.
You don't need to worry about making special lists like that; just pick a stat for the character to use the LevelUp bonus on, and favor their important stats a bit more than the others in the library. You should get a feel for it before long, and if you mess anything up in the first several floors, well... you'll be making that many skillpoints in just a battle or two later in the game, so it's fine.
So on level up's do the sup stats and at the library do the important ones? I can't remember where or what but I think I ended up fighting Yuugi at some point and the team I used got DESTROYED, no chance was given.
OK so the skill points act like a permanent equip, so lets say you have a lvl 2 atk skill, that would add something like 2% to your base atk stat when you level up. (as a example if that makes sense.)
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OK so the skill points act like a permanent equip, so lets say you have a lvl 2 atk skill, that would add something like 2% to your base atk stat when you level up. (as a example if that makes sense.)
Yes. This is actually more literal of an example than you'd think, because the bonus is the same type equipment gives; later in the game your equipment bonus will not be nearly as large as you'd think, because you have a huge increase from skill points already; although it still matters due to subtraction formulas, plus equipment affinities and status resists are important. Levelup bonuses work a similar way, but the increase will still be -GIGANTIC- late in the game, like "this stat would have been literally half as high if I hadn't used all my levelup bonuses on it" by the time you're reaching the end of the main game. It's the difference between your attacks doing no damage or huge numbers, and your buffers/healers taking 0 or just falling over when they get hit and forcing you to gain 20 more levels to beat the boss.
So on level up's do the sup stats and at the library do the important ones?
No, on level ups just pick the single most important stat (either def or mnd, or their higher offense stat) and go all-in, per character. At the library boost their important ones more (which you'll get a feel for what stat needs more investment as you play), and raise the rest to whatever is still cheap, since even your non-durable characters like being able to take a weaker hit and your healers still need some mag and/or atk to heal with.
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don't spend level up bonuses on sp, just don't. late in the game you're swimming in sp and if you ever run out it's because of djinn storm or destroy magic or something, and because you can never get your level up bonuses back, they're wasted points if you spend it on sp, you can use skillup points on sp instead.
and sakuya (or whoever) getting 1 speed after a few level ups and some skillpoints spent on speed doesn't really prove much. she likely would have gotten a point or two without the skillpoints anyway. The point is speed goes up so slowly early in the game, that you would have to invest way too many skillpoints into it to even make a noticeable difference (3 extra points is 3% faster, not a big deal), if you spent your skillpoints in somewhere else instead like atk or def, you could make noticeably larger amounts of damage, or survive hits that may have 1shot you (perhaps this is why yuugi crushed you...though by that point int he game spending decent skillpoints in speed is not only acceptable, but encouraged).
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Well, it seems that no matter what I try, I can't fix this weird achievements bug. The 20000 excess skillpoints doesn't really amount to all that much, but if this prevents me from fighting the Renko bosses I'll be livid.
Edit: Actually I'll just hex the skillpoints out of my save. At least that works.
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@ Kirin no Sora I personally would rather have Hatate be a magic attacker than physical attacker.
Hate to say it, but I'm the wrong guy. I didn't write that.
That said, however...
So I was thinking about if some characters were put in the plus disk (Not including those already confirmed obviously)
I only thought of spellcards and stat growths, skills would be a lot of effort for just speculation
So, anyway (I dont know how to spoiler pls halp)
Letty Whiterock
HP: B- ATK: E DEF: B- MAG: B MND: E SPD: E EVA: E
Spells - All spells use mag
Cold Sign: Cold Snap
Multi target weak cold damage, decent chance to inflict shock. Leveling up increases shock chance
Winter Sign: Flower Wither Away
Multi target weak nature damage, debuff to attack, magic and speed. Leveling increases debuff percentage
Mystic Sign: Table Turning
Multi target medium mystic damage, lowers timebar by 1/2 for random encounters, 1/8 for bosses. Leveling increases damage
White Sign: Undulation Ray
Single target strong cold damage, no extra effects. Leveling increases damage, lvl5 adds a chance to shock
Hatate Himekaidou
HP: E ATK: B+ DEF: D- MAG: E MND: D- SPD: A EVA: A+ (Better than Chen/Aya)
Spells: All spells use atk
Continuous Shooting "Rapid Shot"
Single target medium wind damage,can't miss. Levelling increases damage
Far-sightedness "Tengu Psychography"
Single target medium dark damage, lowers mind and magic. Levelling increases debuff percentage
Photography "Full Panoramic Shot"
Single target medium spirit damage, lowers attack and defence. Levelling increases debuff percentage
Photography "Secluded Paparazzi"
Single target medium wind damage, lowers speed. Levelling greatly increases debuff percentage
Tewi Inaba
HP: B- ATK: B DEF: B- MAG: C MND: B SPD: C+ EVA: C-
Spells: all spells are composite except ancient duper which is atk only
Ancient Duper
Row target high phys damage, low chance of small para. Levelling increases para chance.
Runaway Rabbit "Fluster Escape"
Multi target low phys damage, high chance of med para. Levelling increases damage
Rabbit Sign "Great Fortune Crest"
Single target healing spell that buffs defensive stats. Levelling increases buff
Medicine Melancholy
HP: D ATK: E DEF: D MAG: B MND: C SPD: B EVA: B
Spells: All use mag
Poison Sign "Nerve Poison"
Multi target medium nature damage, high chance of weak para. Levelling increases effect
Poison Sign "Melancholy Poison"
Same as nerve poison except inflicts silence and terror
Fog Sign "Gassing Garden"
Same as nerve poison except inflicts heavy
Poison Sign "Poison Breath"
Same as nerve poison except inflicts poison
Confusion "Into Delirium"
Single target high dark damage, medium chance of shock,levelling increases effect.
Ichirin Kumoi
HP: B ATK: A DEF: B MAG: E MND: B SPD: D EVA: 0 forever
Spells: All use atk
Iron Fist "An Unarguable Youkai Punch"
Single target high phys damage, high chance of shock. Levelling increases damage
Lightning "Electrified Nyuudou"
Single target high wind damage. Most accurate of ichirin's spells. Levelling decreases delay (Reduces delay by 1000 per level)
Fist Sign "Wind-Killing Confession"
Multi target high phys damage. Levelling increases damage
Barrage "King Kraken Strike"
Row target high cold damage. Levelling increases damage
Rage "Calamity Scolding Scorch"
Self max atk buff, debuffs speed and mind. Levelling decreases debuff percentages
Minamitsu Murasa
HP: A (Below komachi but still pretty high), ATK: D DEF: B MAG: E MND: B+ SPD: Slightly slower than patchy EVA: D
Spells: All composite
Ghost "Sinker Ghost"
Single target low cold damage, greatly reduces speed. Levelling increases debuff %
Flood "Venus of the Bilge"
Multi target healing spell, not that fab for healing but cures ailments. levelling increases healing
Harbor Sign "Phantom Ship Harbor"
Multi target low dark damage, completely bypasses defences
Well that's all for now :P
As much as I want to figure out how viable these are, all that I'm coming up with is "Not enough information" for most of them. That, and I think that I'll need time to even do a detailed train of thinking towards what I think of them, which will end up taking me days...
Edit: I just realized that my post is the 999th post, meaning that we need to continue this on a new thread...
2nd Edit: Done. See you guys there.