Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 17F (Read 169324 times)

elminster1372 · « **Reply #690 on:** June 05, 2018, 04:02:52 PM »

Quote from: Libra on June 05, 2018, 02:33:53 PM

While Yukari doesn't provide as much damage in one single spellcard, her Shikigami Ran+ has a very low delay when Ran and Chen are also on the front (7500) which is her strong point imo, this restriction is also lifted once she awakens (where she gets the full benefit even if they are in the back). For comparison, Shikigami Ran+ with the full boost deals about half the damage Patchouli does when she uses Grand Incantation boosted Start of Heavenly Demise, while having 4 times less delay. That said, its worth noting that if you're not gonna use the whole Yakumo Clan, there's much better options for DPS, Yukari's leveling rate and library costs are both terrible so her raw stats aren't that good.

Ofc, forgot to mention that, but none of the Yakumo clan members are worth using unless you use the whole family (though really, very few "family chars" in this game are worth using unless you use the whole family...). But I'd say that the comparison you made between Yukari and Patchouli is even more in favor of Yukari than your example suggests. Because not only does Yukari have much lower delay, but everytime it's her turn, she buffs herself up and debuffs all the enemies as well - not to mention her passive support like Border of Power and Magic. Oh, and she's also pretty bulky herself, for such a good attacker. So yeah, there's a lot of good which can be said about Yukari as a PHY attacker.

Arcvasti · « **Reply #691 on:** June 05, 2018, 05:07:50 PM »

Yeah, the Extra Attack nerfs were a bit much. It's probably for the better that, say, Sakuya can't kill any enemy in the game with lucky enough procs, but I think that'd be better achieved by just not letting it proc off of itself. Not working as well for subclass spells is the final nail in the coffin since all the subclass spells you'd actually want to use are weaker now.

The thing is, Sakuya just lost a LOT of power. She used to rely a lot on Extra Attack + subclass spells for enemies that resist WND/DRK and now both of those options are substantially worse. And if she decides to use Perfect Square, then there's a decent chance she'll cast it again and lose 8 MP for no actual benefit.

The Extra Attack rework idea I have would to have it always proc on every fourth action. It also wouldn't activate for any spellcards that cost more then 10 MP. This neatly solves the RNG problem, stops Extra Attack from working with the unique subclass skills and makes Sakuya not waste time repeatedly Private Squaring. Yuuka's concentration ability might have to bypass the 10 MP thing somehow, for her Extra Attack Master Spark gimmick to work.

RE: Chen:

Chen is a frigging goddess of damage in Plus Disc even without her fellow Yakumos. Pheonix Spread Wings has a ludicrous formula even before it's boosted by 30% by Warrior and she can easiliy maintain near 100% ATK buffs with ease. And her fast levelling rate let's her get her excellent Awakening skills early while also getting the ATK boost upgrades. Plus Instant Attack provides a huge amount of utility, although the new TP loss nerf lessens that somewhat. Chen has the best TP out of all of the Instant Attackers anyways, so she's probably the best for doing cheesy stuff with it. Solo Chen is probably not worth it in the main game, or especially postgame, since she just struggles so hard against enemies with high defense, which are annoyingly common there.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #692 on:** June 05, 2018, 05:44:39 PM »

Quote from: elminster1372 on June 05, 2018, 11:19:29 AM

I honestly dunno what 3peso's rationale for nerfing Extra Attack was, tbh - at the very least, I've not seen anybody complaining about it on this thread (unlike, say, Maintenance)

Seems that it's considered a problem area with JP players, judging from comments on the BBS link on the JP wiki.

Quote from: Xarizzar on June 05, 2018, 01:18:17 PM

Also, is Chen even remotely useful? I haven't read many good things on her. I wonder if I can rep someone in my party with her, if I knew how to actually use her. Cause I really do want to make Yukari as overpowered as LonelyGaruga has made Tenshi.

Ah, well, to do that you'd have to plan your entire party around taking advantage of Yukari, and to a lesser extent the Yakumo Clan as a whole. Like, I'll give a quick rundown of my party and the roles.

-Keine: MT buffer for when I want to attack with both Iku and Tenshi (considering replacing her)
-Momiji: Instant Attack character, 20% Flying racial damage bonus, 50% ACC bonus for high EVA targets or low ACC attacks like Explosive Flame Sword
-Rumia: MT healer, 20% Human racial damage bonus, can apply all status/debuffs post-Awakening with excellent delay
-Aya: Guaranteed first turn, provides buffs before the boss acts, occasionally Divine Grandson's Advent for getting the finishing hit on a boss before it can act
-Mystia: Secondary Instant Attack character for IA Healer or other strategies that involve using a spell card with Momiji, provides debuffs on successful evasion from the back
-Satori: 24% elemental weakness damage bonus, secondary user for buffs from Iku or other characters
-Reisen: MND debuffer for Iku's Celestial Maiden's Blow, can apply all debuffs with high accuracy (her usefulness has been really low recently)
-Sanae: 30% SPI element damage bonus, 20% Youkai racial damage bonus (39% post-Awakening, Super Youkai Buster is 16%), ST healer and all-stat buffer, small MP recovery post-Awakening
-Miko: Passive 8% buff increase from the backline, miscellaneous damage dealing/tanking with Maintenance clone (considering replacing her)
-Akyuu: 50% MT Boost post-Awakening, 16% elemental weakness damage bonus (stacks with Satori), ~~90%~~ 81% rate resurrection tank with no delay, can grant 1-hit invincibility on dead turns or to protect Tenshi from powerful attacks

Basically everyone besides Reisen helps Tenshi, and Reisen can still activate Ninja's skills or debuff a boss to make it slower and less damaging. Some of the characters are also useful as secondary attackers, like Momiji (Rabies Bite, subclass spells), Rumia (Moonlight Ray), Reisen (Mind Starmine, Discarder), and Miko to a lesser extent (I've only used Dragon God's Power with her because Tenshi needed Murakumo's Blessing for the fight). I used to use Eiki instead of Miko, for bosses that Tenshi and Iku both had a hard time against (namely Shredding Amnisieri).

Anyway, you can basically divide character selection into two groups.

1) Characters that help Yukari (and the other Yakumo Clan members) deal damage, take damage, and otherwise support them in combat
2) Characters that fill gaps in their offensive abilities and/or take advantage of their supporting abilities

At least, that's how I would go about it.

General_Milky · « **Reply #693 on:** June 05, 2018, 06:42:25 PM »

I'm mixed on the patch, but the biggest disappointment for me is the one everyone here seems to agree with; Extra Attack. Maybe I was just never clued into its broken applications, but it never seemed all that great to me, and with its most recent changes now it only makes those characters weaker in every situation that wasn't "abusive." If these changes stick, I can't really say I'd even think about using ANY of the Extra Attackers without pre-planning to baby their MP with gems.

Subclass spellcards having their costs increased also doesn't make much sense to me. I get that it makes them harder to subclass tweak any old character into hitting any element effectively, but at the same time, simply bumping up the costs doesn't actually fix that past the maingame. All this change did, as far as I can see, is limit subclasses earlygame and make players rely more on each character's personal kit instead unless they're desperate, which is... oooookaaaay? I don't know.

Pretty much everything else seems good, though. Except for maybe that Dragon God attack being overnerfed, but I am pretty glad to see it changed from the "one size fits all win button" it could be before now. Just might have gone TOO hard on it. If next patch rolls back or at least lessens the Extra Attack gutting, I'm pretty happy with this. ...Not that it fully means much to me, as I'm not playing it either way until a translation patch is up, and considering 3peso's already talking about next patch, I have a strong feeling the translation team isn't going to bother right yet.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #694 on:** June 05, 2018, 07:01:49 PM »

Thank goodness Tomes of Reincarnation can now be bought. And I think I'll wait for elminster1372 to show their setup and damage, as I'm also a fan and a user (albeit her not being in any of my videos) of "Maribel".

And thank you all for your input on Chen

nyttyn · « **Reply #695 on:** June 06, 2018, 07:59:13 AM »

3peso should probably just bite the bullet already and make extra attack more likely but prevent it from chaining.

The nerf itself is probably just targeted at Yuuka post awakening, since you have a 1 in 3 shot at getting a bonus master spark every time which, with good rng, is kinda ow. But changing it so that you can't get a second extra attack would probably fix that abuse case whilst keeping the skill itself in its intended purpose (maybe change it to 20/40% or 25/50%). It'd be kind of a shame to lose out on the occasional jackpot of 2-3+ chains in a row but ultimately it's probably not healthy for the game to leave it like that.

Also why such a huge akyuu nerf ow. That feels particularly brutal in conjunction with nerfing subclasses. Was she really that big of an issue, especially post subclass nerfs?

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #696 on:** June 06, 2018, 08:38:18 AM »

Super Incantation probably warranted a nerf (and that nerf might be an acceptable level), as it dealt some amazing damage with Start of Heavenly Demise and other strong subclass spells, but the nerf to Dragon God's Breath was all that was really needed among all the subclass nerfs. Nerfing Power of the Child of Miare wasn't really necessary either. The TP cost increase is fine, between TP Boost and Tokugawa Statue she has enough TP for 4 revivals, but nerfing the rate just makes it more RNG-dependent. That's really something I'd rather the game have less of. 90% was reliable enough, but 81% is pushing it. Make the TP cost 20 if that's what it takes to balance a 100% rate.

I'll admit though, I don't even use Power of the Child of Miare that much because Regalia + Medicine of Life makes her durable enough to generally be able to take 2-3 hits from average power attacks without any HP level bonuses, so I can't complain too much since it's not like it actually significantly affects using her, or at least, the way I would use her. Especially since she can just give herself invincibility if she's being used as a "tank". But it really wasn't a necessary nerf.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #697 on:** June 06, 2018, 08:50:55 AM »

(Yukari dmg output) spoilers: https://i.gyazo.com/dbb6ebd443ca89d2d616f2cd6fd300d3.png

That's... not half bad actually. Herb of Awakening, full magic buff, Enchant - Florite, Awakened Transcendant Yukari, Yakumo Family buff. Thank you, everyone. Now, to find some use for Chen. She is really squishy so I'll have to put some thought into it. Is Gambler viable for her?

Although, I still think I'll use tank Yukari for

Spoiler:

.

Libra · « **Reply #698 on:** June 06, 2018, 10:28:34 AM »

TBH, given that one of the suggestions was to decrease RNG, yet 3peso added the new Chen skill which gives you a 30% chance to lose stacks when allies take turns, I suppose RNG is just something that 3peso doesn't want to change, can't really agree with that, but I guess its just how he prefers it.

I feel like preventing Extra Attack from chaining would definitely be a step in the right direction; if the nerf is targeted against high powered subclass spells, then having the Extra procc deal less damage (40% of the original damage, for example) for subclass spells could be applied too, though the problem is probably just the unique subclass spellcards, Southern Cross and Execution are not really that strong in comparison.

I personally never felt that Yuuka's Master Spark was that powerful, simply because its MP efficiency is absolutely terrible.

Nyxnyx · « **Reply #699 on:** June 06, 2018, 01:18:03 PM »

Is the english patch from before compatible with 1.104a? I'm guessing no but just to be sure. It's still very useful for side-by-side comparison for item usage, awakening etc.

RegalStar · « **Reply #700 on:** June 06, 2018, 04:15:48 PM »

Quote from: Libra on June 06, 2018, 10:28:34 AM

I feel like preventing Extra Attack from chaining would definitely be a step in the right direction

Given how his solution for Yuuka's awakening locking the game when concentrating was "make concentrate not trigger Extra Attack at all", I don't think he has figured out how to make Extra Attack not chaining when he doesn't want it to.

MewMewHeart · « **Reply #701 on:** June 06, 2018, 10:30:43 PM »

Just fought Miko and um survived thanks to Strategist Byakuren and Enchanter Sanae for saving lives. I might keep Miko in my party, but oh god those skills are kinda good well good, but Imma have to see.

Rinnie · « **Reply #702 on:** June 07, 2018, 10:18:23 PM »

Hi everyone!

I have problems understanding Japanese (also bear with me, English isn't my first language either), and I don't seem to be able to solve the puzzle on 30 Floor (the very first section to the north). No matter how I use the orbs, all the passages are blocked by color barriers. There is some message appears when I enter red orb room, it contains number 30, so maybe it has relevance to some trick used in order to get to locked passages?

I also can't seem to reach some of the bosses on 29th Floor, I can reach only

Spoiler:

. There are rocks to other bosses, do they require something special from me? Perhaps beating some Endless Corridor bosses or something like that?

Also, I am new user on this forum, I am very happy to meet you all

Serela · « **Reply #703 on:** June 08, 2018, 06:44:39 AM »

Apparently in the plus disk final plot boss fight,

Spoiler:

they get a massive stat increase. MFW Renko picks it up (lol wut) and only has ~2000 MAG but Galaxy Stop does over 2mil and outdamages all my nukers. WELP RENKO. YOU GO GIRL.

Quote from: Xarizzar on June 05, 2018, 07:01:49 PM

And I think I'll wait for elminster1372 to show their setup and damage, as I'm also a fan and a user (albeit her not being in any of my videos) of "Maribel".

Maribel was so underwhelming in normal game, but after awakening she's amazing, I love it. She absolutely demolishes random battles the second you awaken her, especially. I just have enhancer Renko plop the enhancer atk/mag buff on for cheap and she blows the battles up with irresistible, unmissable damage, often one-shotting almost all enemies. Vision Sharing rocks too, but I just love how Liberated Abilities gets! Even for bosses with Grand Incantation.

Love most of the changes. I really want to see what kind of numbers Kokoro's passive stat change does now. Extra Attack will probably get tweaked again, it's a strange skill but most of the users weren't broken anyway. Re:Maintennance, I think Miko's version should stay the same (it's a different skill name anyway) but Nitori's should get a heavy nerf because Nitori is already not that bad WITHOUT maintenance, and Super Scope especially was dumb-strong and needed the nerf. Miko on the other hand, is very meh until she gets the highest class equipment and a bunch of base stat boosts, so she's fair. (She's pretty dang good after that...)

It's also kind of fascinating to see that he seriously did implement at -least- half of LonelyGaruga's suggested changes. There's no way that's a coincidence. Huh, maybe I should have gotten in on that!

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #704 on:** June 08, 2018, 08:16:29 AM »

Oh, when you put it like that, I guess 3peso did implement a lot of the things I suggested, even if there were a lot of things that, uh...weren't (those subclass nerfs). Maybe I should try writing up another e-mail then. Responses to the update (definitely starting out with a big thank you for the Keystone Formation buff!), more bugs that have been found, more balance changes, that kind of thing.

elminster1372 · « **Reply #705 on:** June 08, 2018, 12:17:14 PM »

I'm still hoping that Koishi gets Kinship Boost (I still can't fathom why she doesn't have it), and that Suwako's Earth Creation is eventually changed (why would I want to place Suwako in the tank slot??)

Xarizzar · « **Reply #706 on:** June 08, 2018, 01:37:07 PM »

spoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HBmuOrpku4

Spoiler:

. I was sleepy when I made this video so mistakes were made

I also beat

Spoiler:

. Video will be up later.

zeroxtime62 · « **Reply #707 on:** June 08, 2018, 01:47:03 PM »

I don't see Maintenance as the issue with Nitori. Overheating is the problem for her excessive damage output and is what I think either needs to be nerfed or removed from her skill set altogether, possibly being replaced with a different skill that provides less damage increase but still encourages the player to have her sit on the field for multiple turns such as Fighting Spirit.

Serela · « **Reply #708 on:** June 08, 2018, 02:49:40 PM »

Overheatless Nitori would still be kinda obscene... buuuuuut it's true that it's massive damage boost really increases the problem, so it's removal would help a lot. (Replacing it with Fighting Spirit wouldn't exactly help though, considering that she's still, yes, ridiculously durable and strong from maintennance :VV)

I mean, I guess anyone with 2 scourges would have pretty obscene attack, so it's not purely her fault she's been a monster in my current game... XDD (Although, yes, goddamn nitori with 2 scourges wiping everything off the face of the earth. Maribel -still- is better at randoms than her though)

Quote from: elminster1372 on June 08, 2018, 12:17:14 PM

I'm still hoping that Koishi gets Kinship Boost (I still can't fathom why she doesn't have it), and that Suwako's Earth Creation is eventually changed (why would I want to place Suwako in the tank slot??)

The entire point of the skill is to showcase Suwako's unorthodox nature- and it's not really that crazy, because Suwako is supposed to be the kind of character to swap in and immediately swap out after dropping a nuke. Her awakening only further enforces this; even in Plus if you pump HP for durability, she wants to swap back out to charge her double damage passive. And her other passive fullheals her on swapout. So, yeah. :V She's intended to be put in that slot for as little time as physically possible, at which point it starts to make sense. Stacking damage boosts on glass cannons gets pretty insane...

Re:Subclass nerfs, in the end, they're only supposed to be supplementary skills, so while I don't think there's really any need to increase their mp cost so drastically, it's sort of whatever. I don't have the Dragon Breath class yet but it sounded like it's formula was obscenely huge before, but losing 40% damage also sounds pretty crazy...

Oomph, there's a lot of new move testing and wiki updating to do! Wind God Fan, Man of Qi Worries about the Earth, Super Scope, Dragon Breath, Kokoro mask power... and all the new passive skill tweaks. I'm holding off on updating to the new version until the translation patch is ported, though.

zeroxtime62 · « **Reply #709 on:** June 08, 2018, 03:07:56 PM »

I do agree Fighting Spirit could still be problematic so having no additional damage increasing skill might be the best option. With Cold Damage+, Nitori's Kappa's Illusionary Waterfall is slightly weaker than Miko's Halo of the Guse Kannon at full buffs with neither of them using awakening skills against 100 cold/spirit affinity enemies that have non-existent defense/mind stats, assuming they're at the same level and library investment while both using 3x 800% stat equipment and tokugawa statues. Of course it's not the ideal scenario since leveling rates are a thing and "optimal" equipment isn't the same benefit between attack and magic but I think it does at least make Nitori seem a bit more reasonable.

elminster1372 · « **Reply #710 on:** June 08, 2018, 04:18:21 PM »

Quote from: Serela on June 08, 2018, 02:49:40 PM

The entire point of the skill is to showcase Suwako's unorthodox nature- and it's not really that crazy, because Suwako is supposed to be the kind of character to swap in and immediately swap out after dropping a nuke. Her awakening only further enforces this; even in Plus if you pump HP for durability, she wants to swap back out to charge her double damage passive. And her other passive fullheals her on swapout. So, yeah. :V She's intended to be put in that slot for as little time as physically possible, at which point it starts to make sense. Stacking damage boosts on glass cannons gets pretty insane...

The problem is, "glass cannon swapping" doesn't really work all that well past level 1000 or so. At that point, you just want to have your characters sit there and fire away, since speed bars charge so fast that you lose much more time swapping than you would pre-PD content. Mind you, Suwako's dmg is prolly still competitive even without those boosts, but it still sorta saddens me how they become completely useless in the lategame...

Serela · « **Reply #711 on:** June 08, 2018, 04:41:06 PM »

Okay, that's a fair criticism. Swapping doesn't work that well when characters get over 2k atb in one go. That kind of breaks Suwako in general, though; even if her damage is stellar, she's not exactly a great stay-in-attacker option. Once I reach that point there'll be no reason not to use Akyuu over Rinnosuke...

IIRC someone said 3peso was bothered by speed scaling as well, but it's hard to fix at this point. The only way that's realistic for game content that's already been released, is to just throttle the effect of the Speed stat so ATB doesn't scale up as fast. So long as enemies work off the same spd value and not a plain dev-friendly "this many ticks per turn", it would globally reduce everything's SPD and there'd be no pain. Speed buffs might need to be tweaked to work directly off ATB, though, if they don't already. Otherwise it's a SPD buff nerf too, but that might not be that terrible.

Late infinite corridor would still reach obscene speed values, probably, but there's nothing to do about that. Only a static speed stat like how Evasion works could avoid such an outcome, and that's a "if there's a next game" tier suggestion.

As an aside, I've updated the first two character pages in the wiki with the new passives and slightly tweaked reviews. I'm not 100% sure where/how Cirno and Rumia's new awakening buffs are in, so I just mentioned them in the review.

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #712 on:** June 08, 2018, 05:34:26 PM »

Quote from: elminster1372 on June 08, 2018, 04:18:21 PM

The problem is, "glass cannon swapping" doesn't really work all that well past level 1000 or so. At that point, you just want to have your characters sit there and fire away, since speed bars charge so fast that you lose much more time swapping than you would pre-PD content. Mind you, Suwako's dmg is prolly still competitive even without those boosts, but it still sorta saddens me how they become completely useless in the lategame...

Glass cannons don't work out, but with some defensive investment to take a hit Suwako should be able to sit on the leftmost slot for bosses that don't have superpower attacks. As long as she can take one hit and you have an Instant Attack character, she can be switched in and out to refresh her HP with minimal ATB loss. Rumia doesn't have much more HP than Suwako, and I don't have any issues with her tanking 2-3 hits from most single-target attacks, so Suwako should be able to do something similar. I'm considering trying that out with her because of her +30% NTR damage skill making her great support with Tenshi, but Suwako doesn't really have anything to offer for support besides that, so I think it might just be more impractical than what I'm already doing. This would mainly be useful for bosses with no weakness, since if I wanted a second attacker for NTR weak bosses I could just use Satori. Suwako is only 30% compared to Satori's 24%, and Satori can buff herself and/or Tenshi with Iku's Thundercloud Stickleback.

Of course, if you build Suwako with a split in offense and defense in order to take advantage of Ability to Create Earth, then you're losing damage either way (although you're probably gaining more damage this way). The only really practical way to wring out the maximum amount of damage Suwako can output is to take advantage of Kero Kero Hibernation and only switch Suwako in when it's safe, like after a ~2500 delay attack, while other characters do the primary damage output. Which amusingly fits her role in the Moriya group rather well.

Quote from: Serela on June 08, 2018, 04:41:06 PM

Okay, that's a fair criticism. Swapping doesn't work that well when characters get over 2k atb in one go. That kind of breaks Suwako in general, though; even if her damage is stellar, she's not exactly a great stay-in-attacker option. Once I reach that point there'll be no reason not to use Akyuu over Rinnosuke...

Which reminds me, here's how ATB accumulation currently looks. Level 1,123 Tenshi w/ 1,200 library level, SPD Second Boost, and Tokugawa Statue with no other SPD investment gets 1,501 ATB per tick (2,147 with 100% SPD buff). Tenshi's around bottom 5 for SPD, only characters like Patchouli, Yuuka, and Yuyuko are slower. Level 1,191 Rumia with the same conditions gets 1,738 ATB per tick. Max SPD in level bonuses on level 1,191 Akyuu with 1x Machine God Lucifer (otherwise the same conditions as above) gets 2,603 ATB per tick. Level 1152 Iku with the same conditions as Akyuu gets 2,915 ATB per tick. Level 1,137 Aya with 3x Long Sword "Ringil", Mega SPD Boost, and max SPD buff gets 4,819 ATB per tick. ATB accumulation at this point in the game is roughly twice as fast as it was back in the level 540 range, where Tenshi had about 725-750 ATB per tick under the same circumstances (idr how much exactly). Basically, 1,500-2,000 ATB per tick is fairly normal.

Regarding the Awakening changes, Cirno's SPD debuff damage increase is on the skill Avenge the Tomboy, while Rumia's base MAG growth boost is on Youkai who Lurks in Darkness.

Libra · « **Reply #713 on:** June 08, 2018, 05:54:42 PM »

Quote from: Serela on June 08, 2018, 04:41:06 PM

As an aside, I've updated the first two character pages in the wiki with the new passives and slightly tweaked reviews. I'm not 100% sure where/how Cirno and Rumia's new awakening buffs are in, so I just mentioned them in the review.

Just looked through it, Marisa's awakening passives got changed 2 patches ago, now Custom Mode gives a 25% damage bonus while Charge Mode can stack up to 25 but gives a 4% boost per stack instead.

Serela · « **Reply #714 on:** June 08, 2018, 09:14:00 PM »

Thanks, that change slipped by me! I also added Rumia/Cirno's abilities more correctly, assuming All-Covering Robe of Darkness grants 12 magic in one level and still maxes at one? I added a note that White Album powers up now, but I've been too lazy to apply the patch in a separate install and test data to see how much. Still curious about Kokoro's new mask power but not enough to overcome immense laziness. If it, say, doubled, she'd personally gain 50% stat boost from her masks... or tank and apply 20% debuffs to enemies. Her buffs/debuffs are actually large enough to possibly consider a Healer tank Kokoro.

I'll get to the other pages, uh, eventually. For now I'll explore 28F.

Re:People talking about Tank Komachi, I think Mokou blows her out of the water in postgame. 20% base regen, nearly the same HP after base stat tweaks, Sheer Force and an offense debuff, Fighting Spirit for 25% damage reduction and it doesn't wear off on swap out... she just does Komachi's job -better-. Also enables offensive Keine which I think should be pretty potent. I'd be running it if I didn't already have all my tank slots accounted for.

edit:Updated C.Page 7 with Kokoro and Akyuu's tweaks, still need numbers on Man of Qi and Kokoro masks. Character pages 3 through 6 still un-changed.

Libra · « **Reply #715 on:** June 08, 2018, 09:52:51 PM »

Quote from: Serela on June 08, 2018, 09:14:00 PM

Thanks, that change slipped by me! I also added Rumia/Cirno's abilities more correctly, assuming All-Covering Robe of Darkness grants 12 magic in one level and still maxes at one? I added a note that White Album powers up now, but I've been too lazy to apply the patch in a separate install and test data to see how much. Still curious about Kokoro's new mask power but not enough to overcome immense laziness. If it, say, doubled, she'd personally gain 50% stat boost from her masks... or tank and apply 20% debuffs to enemies. Her buffs/debuffs are actually large enough to possibly consider a Healer tank Kokoro.

I'll get to the other pages, uh, eventually. For now I'll explore 28F.

Re:People talking about Tank Komachi, I think Mokou blows her out of the water in postgame. 20% base regen, nearly the same HP after base stat tweaks, Sheer Force and an offense debuff, Fighting Spirit for 25% damage reduction and it doesn't wear off on swap out... she just does Komachi's job -better-. Also enables offensive Keine which I think should be pretty potent. I'd be running it if I didn't already have all my tank slots accounted for.

Rumia's new MAG boost is in Youkai who Lurks in the Darkness (I got it wrong in the post from a few days ago), it grants a 1.2 boost per level. Cirno's new additional damage is an added effect of Avenge the Tomboy, her White Album now maxes at +70%DEF/MND, so I assume it should be 45%+5% per level.

I personally agree that Mokou is better, simply because in late PD a bunch of bosses like using extremely powerful single target nukes that are basically gonna kill your tank no matter what, so having Resurrection is nice. Sheer Force Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse is also not too shabby, the effect is small, but with its high infliction rate you can debuff some resistant bosses and Mokou is fast enough to stack it up, so its basically an easily maintained -10~20% ATK/MAG debuff.

Xarizzar · « **Reply #716 on:** June 08, 2018, 09:57:24 PM »

I haven't really used Mokou in the late game, but I've never really had any problems with Komachi getting KO'd, except maybe (

)

Spoiler:

. Speaking of which, here's my clear on the

Spoiler:

: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFs1UJBQB2Q

LonelyGaruga · « **Reply #717 on:** June 08, 2018, 10:24:52 PM »

Congrats on that! That leaves

Spoiler:

then?

Xarizzar · « **Reply #718 on:** June 08, 2018, 10:26:13 PM »

And the Infinite Corridor bosses, though I probably won't be uploading videos of the easy ones.

zeroxtime62 · « **Reply #719 on:** June 08, 2018, 10:27:48 PM »

Komachi does have one small trait going for her over her other fellow tanks, void resistance. I'm not sure how much it comes into play for surviving attacks that the others wouldn't but I think it could potentially give her a small niche to fill.