Path of Radiance Mafia -Game Over-

[Shadoweh]

I was going to ask why you weren't voting Dormio. My only thoughts about Dormio being scum relate to how he's voting me, but it wouldn't be the first time town or scum. Bardiche is still the townest, though Affinity is the same huggable level as you. Everything I've said about Rawr looking scummy is my honest opinion. I'm open to the idea of outright bandwagoning him because I think he's worse then Serela at this point. I tried to outline what I disliked about Serela in my previous post, it feels to me like he's trying to support my lynch without supporting it. And I've said what I hate about Pesco. Do you need clarification on something about him? :s He's being more political.

IS anyone interested in a Rawr wagon? If there's support for it this late I'll jump on it right now. It's a little late and I'm a little in danger of being lynched to try random new things again.

[Affinity]

The link is HW's case on Serela, not Shadoweh's. See what she says in her voteswitch post

When Shadoweh said she was sheeping to HW, I had the impression that she was using huhwhat's reasons as part of her reasons.  Each reason can only be original once after all, but I've feeling we are seeing things differently.

no i actually didnt hop the actiondan wagon. i would think its desperate scum because i dont think someone who is town would go around saying "i could easily lynch xxx even though i mention that the case is pretty weak". Im really all for lynching shadoweh actiondan or dormio, but shadoweh caught my attention the most when she switched her "i want dan lynched" to "I think serela will be lynched" and then bringing up how easily she could get me lynched.

Sorry about the first part; I messed you up with Trickysticks.  In any case, what you raised on the tone of Shadoweh is somewhat subjective, so I guess we can agree to disagree on that. Why was Shadoweh's 'voteswitch and desperation' scummier than Dormio's 'insistence on the past' at that time?  Your vote still seems to be the most jumpish out of the four, I have to say; most of your reasons in your votepost seems copied from others and you didn't seem to consider other candidates in your judgement.

And I would prefer Shadoweh over the others.

How?  What changed your mind about Dan for example?

===

The upshot of all of this is that the general impression of a person not scumhunting gives other people a reason not to scumhunt by jumping on said person; it all depends who was on the scene first, and that guy is probably a townie.  Too many people claim that they are scumhunting D1 when in fact they are merely jumping onto the wagons of people who are weak for the plainest of reasons (e.g Dan has no vote, Serela is waffling, Shadoweh has no content etc.); what I feel matters more is a person's justification of his choice to vote for one wagon over the other, which Serela and Shadoweh have done decently in.  rawr had a relatively wide range of opinions at least, and I can understand his thought processes behind his vote on Dormio, so despite me disapproving his Shadoweh vote I'm quite fine regarding him.  Dormio is my choice for D1's lynch due to him vote-parking on Conq with reasons no one cared about until the Shadoweh wagon arose, and his failure to articulate why Shadoweh instead of Serela and Dan; I don't have a clear mark on his opinions, which seem fabricated for each stage of the day.

I'm not happy with lynching Serela or Shadoweh, but if it boils down to a race between the two I would prefer to go for Serela due to his somewhat weaker Dan vote (and unvote!).

PX, are you disregarding the Shadoweh wagon solely due to the speed at which it came up?  Why Serela over Shadoweh?

[Bardiche]

Bardiche is still the townest, though Affinity is the same huggable level as you.

See, this is why I don't want your feelings known. I don't care you're hugging Affinity behind my back, treating my love like you would the left-overs from two weeks ago from the Chinese take-away!

On a serious note, though, I don't care for your opinion re: Pesco. Your last post re: Serela isn't nearly as solid on your stance as you think. You have a vote down on Serela but there's a lot of mess inbetween. Condense, if you would, the reasons you're voting Serela. What gives you those feelings about/for him?

[Bardiche]

Affinity's latest post is superb and I feel he's the least scummy to me at present: I'd take a bullet for him.

[PX]

PX, are you disregarding the Shadoweh wagon solely due to the speed at which it came up?  Why Serela over Shadoweh?

No, not the speed of the wagon. Just how everyone at the time was keeping other options, then suddenly they all simultaneously focus on Shadoweh and nothing else. It just doesn't seem natural. As for Serela

Maybe I'll magically see a case on Conq or Shadoweh while I reread them and the Shadoweh wagon, but :C

This looks like he's trying to find a case to use to justify his vote (when he does)

And my town read of Bard just got even more solidified

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Affinity: I'm not voting Serela for waffling.

I think him voting Dan for "not scumhunting" when Dan had more original content than Serela even after the post where Serela gave his reads is a scummy double-standard on his part. There's also what I said about Serela focusing on current topics looking more like trying to fill a content criteria than anything else.

As is, I haven't been given a reason to move my vote because he still hasn't truly produced anything since I attacked him, making it difficult to either further my case or reconsider based on what else I see from him.

You and Bard are making me want to sheep re-read Dormio, though.

[WHMZakeri]

made it up to about 130 posts before suffering from information overload.

Bardiche and Shadoweh are both Town. Which means at least one of them is scum. Unfortunately, I can't tell which one of them is is because they're both town.

Pesco is town because Brometa. I'm a little uncertain what Action Dan did that made his vote on NeoSerela worse than Shadoweh's complete lack of effort, though since her complete turnaround in 131 I feel any answer to that question would be muddled.

Dormio is town because he's been attempting to pursue his main suspects, even though the targets of his attacks are questionable choices.

More people need to make stream of concious posts. Huh what was complete scum material, lynch now, gg, up until his posts 94-98. I love that series of posts because of it, I swear by stream of concious posting because it makes the person's thought transparent and allows the player to think on his own at the same time.  His admitting he had no case on Conq, and insisting on not pursuing Conq because of it makes me feel he's town.

What little I saw of NeoSerela was null leaning town. I imagine it either got worse, or as standard for day one, people are spinning it into something worse than it really is. Everyone seems to be grasping for straws, if Affinity's 200 means anything.

Also, ##Unvote: ActionDan since I trust Schezo's word over everyone else's.

I, personally, have only witnessed three acts of scumminess this game. HW's switch to Conqueror (clearified somewhat by claiming to be cut by other two casemakers and by reaction to own case in post 98) Shadoweh (rectified by post 131) and Trickysticks (Judging from Shadoweh's last post is still lurking the day out.]

##Vote: Trickysticks.

[Dr Rawr]

I did read your posts, i cant qoute or pick out everything you say do to phone being bad. But now that i got a computer let me poke out a case for you.

Shadoweh

Posts #131, you mention how useless my case and posts are. You post how this is reason to vote for me along with my newbyness. Also reading your post i actually cant seem to find the reason you voted for dan in the first place besides his "style" of posting(which you dont explain why) and his lack there of.

#137 i dont like this posts, ill get on this later

#164 you dont give any case on your vote for serela or any actual reason

#all your other posts

none of which include any reason for voting for serela or explaining your vote for action dan. Not to mention you fence sit on me the whole time, probably thinking you can bring up some kind of rawr wagon going, at least until your lasts posts just blatantly asking if anyone is interested for one. If in any of your posts you give an actual reason for your votes, im sorry but could you actually go and explain them. With that i now do think youre scum, you fence sit on me for no apparent reason bedsides my "flailing around", you DONT give any reason on any of your votes, and im pretty sure some of your answers to some of pescos question were "its subjective to think some one is acting like a good player" and "its subjective to think on how people scum hunt", which i do admit is a good way to avoid those questions, but please explain how your unreasoned votes are a form of scum hunting?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Hmm

Shadoweh: What makes you think Rawr has buddies?

[PX]

Okay, after some food, I clarify that I am voting Serela for not looking for scum, but looking for people that look easy to lynch based on other people.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Okay, after some food, I clarify that I am voting Serela for not looking for scum, but looking for people that look easy to lynch based on other people.

You know, I could swear that Shadoweh said something to that effect too. :V

Anyway, I'm back and failingtrying to make another post.

[Dr Rawr]

dormio could you point that post out where shadoweh said something like that, i feel like shadoweh has but cant find it 

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Did a re-read of some of the later pages (and skimmed the earlier ones for Dormio reasons) to look into the major targets, since I haven't paid the Dormio wagon much thought until now, and find myself having stuff to say about Shadoweh.

I'm finding myself more willing to switch to Shadoweh now. I think she's proving Pesco's case on her by keeping her vote down on Serela when she evidently takes more issue with DrRawr and Pesco himself. It's not like there's only five hours left in the day, so there's still time for her to attempt to wagon her actual scumspects, and if she doesn't even bother voting the wagons she wants to go through and trying to convince her fellow players to do the same then she's not playing town. The obvious explanation for this would be that Serela still has potential as a counterwagon.

Ever since he switched to Conq, Dormio has been pro-active from my PoV, and he looks townie as a result. People saying his Conq vote was a votepark looks like a misrep to me, because he was assertively pushing for Conq when he preferred the lynch, it's just that nobody listened to him. I'm not buying the "Dormio is interested in Shadoweh, but doesn't think she's scum" case because the post where he voted her made me think he was agreeing with Pesco and tacking on his own points, which shouldn't be any worse than Shadoweh sheeping me on Serela. The only thing that strikes me as "off" about him is his willingness to wagon Shadoweh when Conq was the second Shadoweh voter. I'd like him to talk about how his stance on Conq is holding up right now.

I like both Serela and Shadoweh as lynches, which feels weird given the voting layout. Serela still looks the scummiest to me but Shadoweh's involvement with the wagon is starting to make me paranoid about voting him over her.

However, it should be noted at this point I'm starting to worry Serela is abusing his meta. His... "awkward" playstyle was discussed a lot over break, and given his recent posts, it doesn't look like he's trying to improve at all even though I would expect him to be doing so this game. This doesn't sit right with me.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Certainly.

As for voteparking, no, I believe Serela has a decent chance of being lynched today. I've not voted for anyone I think is a lost cause.

Well, here we have something. By lost cause, she means someone that she knows that she can't get lynched, like Pesco.
I mean, you know, despite saying over and over again how scummy she finds Pesco, she has yet to even threaten him with a vote.

I forgot about the vote on you. That's the only one that doesn't count.

Okay.

There's also this thing.

Rawr is a newbie and would be easy to lynch if I felt inclined to push it.

Do you really believe that?

Are you implying Dan was somehow not a wagon? My point stands.

Your point that, what? You only vote people that you think are easy to lynch? :V

As far as I can see, Shadoweh's only response to this has been:

Of course I do. Rawr was doing some flaily things that looked suspicious. The fact that he isn't being pushed makes me more suspicious then his own actions. You were the one arguing I was voting for nothing. My votes are placed where I think suspicion should pick up.

In which she states that, yes, she believes that Rawr should have been easy for her to push a lynch on.

Anyway, making another poast.

And cut by HW while I'm at it.

[Dr Rawr]

Is that really a reason to vote for serela? because you think he will get lynched today?

[Shadoweh]

Bard, making me giggle isn't conductive to my scumhunting.. well maybe it is. I'm better at this when I've calmed down.
Cases are scummy, and to me the proof is in the wagon that rose on me. More to the point. I'm saying alot of words, and the more words someone puts out the easier it is to make a case on them. I fully believe my wagon is huge because I went hyperactive. It's related to why I thought the early day cases were garbage because they were only based around the people talking back then, especially huh what.

Sheeping huh what was a joke.

Can we please lynch Rawr seriously. Okay. Rawr, what you're doing right now is called information instead of analysis. Especially your copying of my post 131, you don't actually say how any of what you're saying is a reason to vote me or think I'm scum, you're just repeating things I said. But since you say I had no reason for voting Serela I'm going to go back and see if I did. *reads* I said I didn't like his bandwagon hop. That sounds like a 'reason' to me.

Okay, this isn't going anywhere. I did actually try to get through this without doing this, but..
Sigh. I really am bad at hiding this killing intent. As much fun as this is I think I'm going to let you all in on the joke and why I'm not particularily interested in talking to Pesco. Or threatening him with a vote. I have something much better.

Given that you don't have a vig,

This is why I make fun of you when you claim to be able to read me. What makes you think I don't have a vig? I've been really blatant about how I'm planning to kill you tonight. The question in itself is bad. It's rolefishing. You have no way to know whether that's true or not, and any answer I give you in that direction tells you about my role, not my alignment. It's just sitting there, begging to be refuted.

Oh, it's probably why I'm not 'scumhunting as hard'. Talk is cheap when you've got an axe in your face. So get the hell off me. Unfortunately I can't threaten to daykill everyone on my wagon this time, but anyone that wants Pesco to live through the night should give me a really super special awesome reason.

[Shadoweh]

P.S. Dormio if you roleblock me again I will punch you in the gut I swear.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Did Shadoweh just claim vig?
I think she just claimed vig.
##Prick Shadoweh

(Still writing that post stop cutting me.)

[Serela]

edit:None of this post is actually relevant to this specific game we are playing. tbh it'd have more place being said postgame, but then it'd be sort of late for immediate things.

However, it should be noted at this point I'm starting to worry Serela is abusing his meta. His... "awkward" playstyle was discussed a lot over break, and given his recent posts, it doesn't look like he's trying to improve at all even though I would expect him to be doing so this game. This doesn't sit right with me.

I think this is more of a problem with how I scumhunt then how much effort I put into the game. This bothers me because, while adopting a different style of scumhunting is much better in terms of being able to make content and pick a target, I personally feel like I would not be actually finding scum quite as well as finding targets, in addition to the fact that I quite simply cannot concentrate on things and keep thoughts in order long enough to pull off the more investigatey and evaluating playstyle versus "This player does not feel like town to me!".

Making cases is something that comes after I figure out the person is bad. Sometimes the stuff that makes them feel bad to me is case-worthy in itself, sometimes it just doesn't work out that way and I'm stranded with "This person is scum, I just can't explain -why-."

And the fact that my, admittedly lazy, and rather quirky and case-deprived method of scumhunting, has actually been working out really well in terms of identifying scum does not help any effort towards trying to do a different way. Despite the fact that after I figure it out I tend to not be able to convince anyone due to my lack of real content.

It's funny though, because then I flip scum and suddenly I seem to actually be able to function somewhat well as a mafia player (At least for short periods of time, or AT LEAST IN COMPARISON TO TOWN!SERELA.), probably having something to do with -having- to use the other playstyle as obviously I know everyone else is town and not scum. I figure at least part of the reason is because that I no longer have to worry about the accuracy rate of this scumhunting method, as, I'm scum in such a case.

Maybe if I pretended I was scum and was trying to fabricate cases on townies I'd get somewhere. But that feels wrong and I think my chances of actually hitting a scum would be much lower :C

It might be better if I just didn't play, but it's still a fun game for me, even if I'm a bother to other people with how useless my playstyle tends to be in terms of ACTUALLY HELPING TOWN.

edit:Shadoweh got a vig again oh man

[Serela]

I should have said "fakeedit" or "ninja:" or something. Those aren't actual edits, they were added in before the actual post was done.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Why would I want Shadoweh lynched over the other potential wagons?
First of all, I can't be the only one that dislikes how Shadoweh has pretty much said flat out that she's voted for the people she has because she thought that they would be relatively easy for her to lynch, can I?
Secondly, why not Dan? Well my major qualm with him was that he wasn't posting. He's given a reason for it, and replaced out. I'd like to see more posts from Zakeri and stuff, though.
Thirdly, why not Serela, Tricksy, or the other lurkers? Unfortunately, I don't really believe in voting for people purely for lurking. Though I will express my dislike however much I want. And I will note, however, that I'm rather agitated by the lack of content from Serela and Tricksy.
I do not like this AtE that I've been cut by, either.

Warning - while you were typing 9 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
:/
I guess I need to make a new post or something.

[Bardiche]

Serela, if you wonder if you need to post it, chances are you shouldn't. We're not interested in how you find Mafia a difficult game to play, we're interested in who you think are scum and whatnot. So... tell us who's scum! I think it's starting to annoy me how you keep flailing over how difficult you find the game. We get it, now play. The point of "Mafia" as a Townie is not to catch scum alone, it's to convince the rest of town too. If you recognise you have a failing in that last regard, then work to improve it rather than sit there and go "^_^ Lol I'm so bad at this whee".

Dormio what did you just do.

Dormio, your first point seems like a stretch: I recognise Shadoweh said she'd have an easy time lynching Rawr (a sentiment I disagree with), but I did not see her say she only voted for people that would be easy to get lynched. Link me to the specific statement that lead you to that thought?

Can you state, in bullet-points and clear language, what makes you feel she is scum and why?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

...

Serela, if you have the time to write a WoT about your playstyle then you have the time to read the thread and post concrete opinions. :l

@Shadoweh: :frustration:

You are not UK. You shouldn't shoot Pesco tonight because it's selfish and fucking retarded when you could be using your vig to give us a second lynch or something that actually helps the town. If you want Pesco dead, then do it the townie way and push a case (or just a wagon full of sheep, since you buy into the "cases are scummy" shit <_____<) on him instead and consult your townbuddies on it. If he doesn't get lynched then go ahead and shoot him, since then we'll at least have something to analyze, which is a lot better than what will happen if we let you live today and you take matters into your own hands.

Or we could just lynch you because you're playing Serial Killer (or even scum nightvig) instead of town. I think that would solve everybody's problems right now.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I'd like him to talk about how his stance on Conq is holding up right now.

To be honest, I think that a lot of my dislike of Conq stems from his refusal to answer me, either through ignoring me or redirecting it.
His later content has been agreeable enough to me, not that there is all that much of it. However, this does not change that I disliked him for his earlier activity, nor that I still dislike him for ignoring me.

TOO MANY POSTS NEED TO ADDRESS EVERYTHING AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

which is a lot better than what will happen if we let you live today

This means "live today while ignoring Pesco", if it wasn't obvious.

If you want an actual opinion on you shooting Pesco that isn't just me scolding you out of frustration with the way you're playing vig, I don't support it since I've been reading Pesco as null-leaning-town the entire day, and nobody's trying to change my mind.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Firstly, I'll address the following in this post:

Dormio what did you just do.

Just referring to Zombie Apocalypse mafia, where I roleblocked Shadoweh via ##Prick.

[Bardiche]

Also, why did you feel the need to mention how you never let off on Shadoweh when you voted Conqueror?


Cut by HW. Except by taking sovereign right to shoot, she takes full responsibility for the action. Having everyone decide the target instead of taking sovereign right is not "the townie way" to do it. Your proposed way is more beneficial to a Scum Vig than to a Town Vig.

[Shadoweh]

Kill the zombies by shooting them in the head!
They can't lynch you if you make them dead
Kill the zombies, kill the zombies!

I am no longer interested in playing games for survival. I would have preferred to get through just one day so I could dance onto of X's corpse tomorrow instead of claiming now, but whatever.  Having a vig makes me feel like a serial killer, I shouldn't blame you for treating me like one.

Easy to lynch doesn't take the place of 'and thinks they are scummy'. There is no one I am willing to vote for that I'm not suspicious of. I'd forgotten that your scum meta also adores jumping on my back. Why are you still voting me, are you counter-claiming or do you like the idea of lynching vigilanties?

Huh what: >_> What in my previous behaviour gave you this delusion I would give my vigilante shot to the town at large, remembering that the town at large forced me not to shoot the scum that we lost the game to? Tell me why Pesco isn't scum if you don't want him to die.

[Dr Rawr]

My reasons arent reason? huh

fine ill make a post not quoting you at all

I think you are scum because you dont scum hunt, you dont add any reason to your votes(i still cant find where you said that and you never explained your vote on actiondan), you at first avoid questions about your lack of scum hunting, you dont vote for the people you dislike the most(which leads to your lack of any cases). Now youre saying you didnt scum hunt at all because you can kill anyone you want. I cant tell if thats complete laziness, selfishness, or scum but im going for scum.

Now i dont care if you think these arent reason or this isnt an analysis. if you dont like how i posted my reasons or still dont think this is an analysis dwi this is my first game.

[Schezo]

Votecount: FRUSTRATED edition

Voting:
Serela (3): Huh What, Shadoweh, PX
Zakeri (1): Trickysticks
Dormio (2): Affinity, Bardiche
Shadoweh (4): Pesco, Conq, Dormio, nurse rawr (L-3)
Trickysticks (1): Zakeri

Not Voting: BT, Serela

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Shadoweh is at L-3

Deadline for day 1 is ~23.5 hours. (watch timer here)

Trickysticks has been prodded.