Author Topic: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Game Over, Town Wins]  (Read 113146 times)

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #150 on: July 13, 2011, 03:29:44 PM »
Sadly, I must go away for an hour or two. Don't let Yuan scare you too much while I'm gone~

Yes, I'm the scary one~.
 
I'll outline what I can of the Depore problems while you're gone. A LOT of it has to do with the Why Me thing, but there's also potential for a defense of One?
 
I know you don't hold the same beliefs I do about the Why Me tell; so I'll do what I can for you ^-^

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #151 on: July 13, 2011, 03:48:04 PM »
I'll think of a case tomorrow as I should go to bed now.
Ugh, my brain is starting to hurt.

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #152 on: July 13, 2011, 04:03:55 PM »
Dead posts are dead.

In order:
 
1) I explained why I didn't like it in the sentence before. Appeasement on your part makes it scummy.
2) It's not that you didn't move your vote. It's the reason you gave for not moving it.
3)I have explained why I don't like you. And I believe you to be more scummy than the other people I have outlined. Your vote for Xix + your recent posts are the biggest reasons.
4) I still want Empress to answer my questions, and I am no less suspicious of her at this point in time. HOWEVER, you were more suspicious. And I vote the person I feel is most likely to be scum.
 
Further, that last question is called "deflection" where you try to direct me back onto another target. It's another form of "Why Me?" or "Why not them?" and it's a major scum tell. Thank you for solidifying my read even further.

I have already explained my reason for Xix at the time, as well as the fact that even most of them were joked I had "Mob Mentality" in effect as well.

as for Demon Navarus's post...eh...

I hate math...thats all I can really say for the probability part, and for the scum part...well its harder than I thought. I'm actually more biased then I orginally thought I was.
Also : analysis depends in the person is majorly biases or not, if they are it could be completely wrong and throw the game off by false information.
Scum wise:
I'm reading One as derptown. Call me naive if you want but I'm sticking with this read for now.
I personally wonder why you are defending me so much, not that I didn't like the help. It makes me wonder why you would defend me when I likely have nothing for you to benefit with, after all I don't have much contents or scum opinions for anyone. It makes me wonder if you actually trying to keep me alive so you can get an easy wagon on me later?

@Yuan: Even with all your posts, you still don't really explain how appeasement means scummy, If I'm really such a high scum target, are you sure its alright to not explain every detail?

@Just : While its nice and all your giving me so much attention, I really wonder why your so focused on me. There are other wagons with about the same votes on me. Yet latest posts have all been attacking me. All your attacks on me makes me wonder whats going on in your head to really ignore most of the others around us...please don't tell me that its because you love me either.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #153 on: July 13, 2011, 04:11:09 PM »
So you want me to explain MAFIA THEORY to you now? Good Lord.
 
Appeasement is scummy because it's a way for scum to try and deflect and avoid suspicion. Scum has clear motivation to do it.

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #154 on: July 13, 2011, 04:12:43 PM »
Votecount the Eighth

One (2): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan
Mala (1): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Xix (1): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One
Orwen (2): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Moonin (2): Xix, Mala
Iffrita (1): Miya, Yuan
Depore (1): Moonin
Just (1): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus

Yuan (0): Orwen, Depore
Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail

Not Voting: Depore, One

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 31 hours and 45 minutes until Night 1.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #155 on: July 13, 2011, 04:12:59 PM »
@Demon: The only thing outside of the "Why Me" is the vote that he placed on me.
 
He tried to attack me for an apparent scum slip, ignoring all my other posts. Do I need to explain why that is scummy?
 
Further, the attack on me could have a secondary purpose of defecting attention off of One.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #156 on: July 13, 2011, 05:12:55 PM »
Quote from: One
I hate math...thats all I can really say for the probability part, and for the scum part...well its harder than I thought. I'm actually more biased then I orginally thought I was.
Also : analysis depends in the person is majorly biases or not, if they are it could be completely wrong and throw the game off by false information.

OK, seriously, what the hell does this even mean? It's word salad that has syntax errors out the ass and makes absolutely no damn sense. Please rephrase this in English, not...whatever that is.

Secondly, if you answered Yuan's questions already, can you link back to where you did so?

Thirdly, It Makes Me Wonder statements are not analysis. It's too soft. Say what you mean. Tell us why it's scummy. You did ok on Mala, ending with the theory she's keeping you alive to wagon you later. That's not GOOD logic, but it's still something concrete that says "This is why I think X is scum"

However, it's unclear whether you think Yuan and Just are scum. You talk about what they've done, but why do you think they've done it. Is Yuan scummy? Why? Is Just scummy? Why?

@Yuan: Just gonna say I disagree with your case. Depore can defend against it herself. Speaking of Depore...

@Depore: We're down to about 30ish hours in the day. You don't have the luxury of posting cases tomorrow. Do it now, please.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #157 on: July 13, 2011, 05:15:10 PM »
Demon, what's your opinion of Empress?

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #158 on: July 13, 2011, 05:33:01 PM »
So far? Early town read, haven't paid her as much mind. I think I do need to reread her at this point, since I might have missed something. The rolefishing thing didn't actually condemn her in my mind, I just wanted to see what her reasoning was. I sort of followed it but disagreed.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #159 on: July 13, 2011, 06:14:14 PM »
I did that Depore re-read. I originally thought her vote on Xix was stronger than Xix's vote on Moonin but after looking into her post again it's fairly obvious this was not the case. Blaming it on tunnel vision (because tunnel vision is a good scapegoat for one's own idiocy). Anyway.
##Unvote
##Vote Depore
Depore's initial vote on Xix actually looks a lot like something I would expect from newbscum: she aggressively voted somebody who looked like a potential major wagon, but her vote contains significant padding (the accusations of aggression and hypocrisy) and fails to actually explain how her target's behavior is scummy. Newbscum can't easily analyze for scum intent because they have no experience scumhunting and already know who is scum anyway, and Depore's jump on Xix seems to have this exact problem.

Moving on from Depore's initial post, I'm finding myself strongly disliking her #88, if only because of how much leeway it gave her. At the time, Xix, One and Moonin were all notable targets, and this post just gave Depore the chance to attack either one of them should the Xix wagon die out. Given that One and Moonin were fairly easy to attack, it doesn't particularly look like original scumhunting, either. Considering that Depore dropped her suspicion on Moonin after he posted some content and stopped looking like an easy target, I'm fairly confident her intent from the beginning was to jump on the players who would likely not take much effort to lynch.

I'll concede that I was probably wrong on Xix, if only because a second look at Depore's vote makes me feel like the Xix wagon was a construct being used by scum for an earlygame push. If I turn out to be wrong on Depore I'll probably reconsider. Xix still needs to post some better content, though. I will rage if we end up letting him coast by on all the passes we're giving him.


Other stuff:
Regarding One... eh. I've been reading a lot of his posts, and I can't seem to judge them as anything other than derptown earnesty. I don't believe appeasement is a scumtell when used by newbies, either. It's closer to null. It really feels like One is being lynched for being a weaker player rather than lynching scum. See Depore for an example of what I believe newbscum would actually be doing.

@Navarus: I like the Just case. The thought that he was acting rather ignorant/survivalist crossed my mind last night and I actually still feel this way, so I'd be willing to switch to him. Actually, I think he's a better D1 lynch than most targets today (One, Moonin, Orwen), but I don't consider him to be worse than Depore.

@Yuan: As far as I know, I already explained everything you're asking, or at least made posts where I did so in the process of talking about other things. I'll give links if necessary. While I'm at it, though, I'll say that I thought Moonin looked fairly townie at the time Xix attacked him. Pushing somebody to 3 votes during the RVS with no written is the kind of thing a townie would want to do to draw unnecessary attention and get discussion going, not scum. I felt Xix's vote on Moonin had scum motivation when I initially attacked him.

As for the other content, why the hell are you throwing scum pairings around on day 1? That's ridiculous and a very easy way for scum to set up unnecessary connections between players that further their own agendas. It'd be nice if we didn't get ahead of ourselves. I am glad you're at least considering Depore, however. Is there any specific reason you prefer to lynch One over her at this point, though?

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #160 on: July 13, 2011, 06:21:26 PM »
I see absolutely no issues with Iffrita, Yuan. Why do you suspect her?

Cut by Iffrita: Hrm...I'm kind of in a tough spot here. I think Depore is town (though she needs to fulfill my request ASAP). However, I honestly follow the logic in voting her. To counter this wagon would basically be saying "Screw you all, my gut is so much better than your logic". That doesn't seem like it'd go well. I have read the case on her and see where you're coming from, I just see a lot of potential newbtown. I think I'll gain the best discernment from a real list of suspicions from her.

I would prefer a Just lynch at this point, I feel. Even over One, especially over Depore.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #161 on: July 13, 2011, 07:35:52 PM »
Well, I did a quick re-read of Just and I'm finding myself even less pleased with his content than I remembered. I can't tell who he thinks is scum other than One, and this is Not A Good Thing to me considering that I have been considering One to be an obvious derptown target throughout the day. Everything else he has posted looks like a bunch of side comments wrapped in RP smugness, which does not reflect on him very well at all. I know it's D1, but I would expect something more substantial by now. I can't see any townie intent in his posts and it just looks like he's trying to coast.

I like my Depore case too much to switch so soon, but I think Just is my second choice for a lynch now. Mala is a distant third.

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #162 on: July 13, 2011, 09:50:36 PM »
OK, seriously, what the hell does this even mean? It's word salad that has syntax errors out the ass and makes absolutely no damn sense. Please rephrase this in English, not...whatever that is.

Secondly, if you answered Yuan's questions already, can you link back to where you did so?

Thirdly, It Makes Me Wonder statements are not analysis. It's too soft. Say what you mean. Tell us why it's scummy. You did ok on Mala, ending with the theory she's keeping you alive to wagon you later. That's not GOOD logic, but it's still something concrete that says "This is why I think X is scum"

However, it's unclear whether you think Yuan and Just are scum. You talk about what they've done, but why do you think they've done it. Is Yuan scummy? Why? Is Just scummy? Why?

You can likely ignore that part due to brain scrambling...I think I was starting to bullshit like every time I write a History essay.

One again I wish to note watch for a Princess Miya post,

For the Just reasoning. He has attacked me multiple times by purely reversing my words, he practicalled looked at me like easy prey, which is likely. He pretty much ignored the discussion and practically focused in on me, there were a few wagons around, yet he continues to only assault mine. I consider that ...well...never really used this word much but..."scummy."!

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #163 on: July 13, 2011, 09:55:06 PM »
Err replace Just with Yuan

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #164 on: July 13, 2011, 10:12:30 PM »
EBWOP : ##Vote Yuan
To solidify my point.

DiEnd

  • DiEnd
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #165 on: July 13, 2011, 10:13:50 PM »
EBWODP ##Vote Yuan

Sigh...mistakes mistakes mistakes...

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #166 on: July 13, 2011, 10:40:18 PM »
Where did everybody go? I seem to recall it getting a lot more active around this time yesterday. I want opinions on Depore and Just.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #167 on: July 13, 2011, 10:49:16 PM »
It sure would be nice if Xix, Moonin and Just were around and posting.

lolD1scumpairs.
Just I see as strange. Probably scummy. It really would be nice if he were around since I had a few questions for him in #109. I hoped that I could have gotten a quick answer but it would seem as though Just doesn't want to play with us and now my points were used by Demon Navarus in #137 and #141.
As for One I still think that he's derptown and I don't see anything special about Sage Orwen.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #168 on: July 13, 2011, 10:52:14 PM »
A quick CTRL+F through your posting history shows that you have never given any sort of opinion about Depore. Give one.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #169 on: July 13, 2011, 11:10:22 PM »
Depore? I would prefer other lynches at this point.
I do however also find her #115 disconcerting. After stating that she finds Moonin to be scummy for unknown reasons she calls his "content" post as really townie. The "content" that I'd still like some questions answered (It should actually read @Xix #73.) about. It seems like Depore simply got scared off by the size of the post instead of really looking at the content. (of which half comes from a liberal use of the enter key and large size font while announcing how many times he had been cut.)
Actually Depore is just as bad as Xix, Moonin and Just.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #170 on: July 13, 2011, 11:41:21 PM »
Where did everybody go? I seem to recall it getting a lot more active around this time yesterday. I want opinions on Depore and Just.

In my Depore reread, I notice that her scum reads seem mostly based on content first, followed by quality of reasoning. For example:

Because I'm special.

These are my current opinions as the other ones were just quick opinions:

Xix: Could do with some more posts. Low content in some posts. Not-so-good reasoning. Attempt to deflect attacks. Bit aggressive. Slightly Scummy.
The unneccesary attack to what I now think was a jokevote seemed very scummy. Then he actually tried to deflect the attacks onto me when he could've made a proper defense case for himself. After recent posts he seems to have calmed down a bit and seems less scummy to me. But I still think he is a bit scummy.

One:Low content in some posts. Can be confusing. Not the best reasoning. Kinda scummy or as Mala said "derptown".
I think One needs to re-think what he posts as he seems to get a bit confused sometimes. Although that statement that he made about keeping me alive to give me things makes me think he's trying to make you guys think I'm his scumbuddy (He did say "no not really" but I'm still suspicious).

Moonin: Still could do with some more posts. Getting better with reasoning and content. Leaning towards town now. First post stirred up alot of trouble because it had no reasons at all, but that was possibly a jokevote. The actual content he has posted now seems very town to me.

Book of the Past: Good scumhunting. Good reasoning. Good content(better than most with only 2 posts). Town.
Because the attention to detail is used very well in their scum hunting. And he is covering many people instead of one. Possibly trying to find all the scum on day one and lynch them all one-by-one. I would also like the Book of the Past to post their opinions. Short Sweet and Simple.

Depore seems consistent - She is using these same tells whenever she discusses who she finds suspicious or scummy, and she is judging all the players by the same set of criteria. That is, she considers good content and quality of reasoning to be town, and poor content and low quality of reasoning to be scummy. Her hesitation to vote is also consistent with the players she found scummiest adding content to the discussion. I would like her to vote and I would like her read on Just. I consider consistency fairly pro-town, and as a result, I have a slight derptown/newtown read on her right now.

My first glance of Just made me think most of his suspicious play was a result of roleplaying, so I didn't think much of it at the time. I was also expecting him to post more content later. But even ignoring the gut read I get from him playing the Just character, his content needs work, ASAP. I too would like his reads on players other than One, but I would also like him to update his case on One. I find him suspicious largely due to a need for more content.

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #171 on: July 13, 2011, 11:53:43 PM »
Votecount the Ninth - Day 1 Is 2/3rds Done 4

One (2): Yuan, Just, Moonin, Yuan
Mala (1): One, Orwen, Iffrita
Orwen (2): Navarus, Book of the Past, Mikhail
Moonin (2): Xix, Mala
Iffrita (1): Miya, Yuan
Depore (2): Moonin, Iffrita
Just (1): Book of the Past, Mala, Xix, Navarus
Yuan (1): Orwen, Depore, One

Navarus (0): Depore, Mala
Book of the Past (0): Mikhail
Xix (0): Miya, Just, Moonin, Iffrita, Depore, Mala, One

Not Voting: Depore

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
You have about 24 hours until Night 1.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #172 on: July 14, 2011, 12:00:30 AM »
You have about 24 hours until Night 1.
And yet we have no majority whatsoever.

What gives? The lynches I'd be okay with right now are on Depore, Just and Mala. Maaaybe Xix too. A lot of people seem to agree Just looks bad, are we going to have to resort to piling on him just so we don't have a 3-player lynch wagon? That would be stupid, even if Just does look like scum. One, Just, Depore, Orwen, Mala, and Moonin are all notable targets at this point, so I think people should start indicating which of those players they think are the best picks. I'm honestly confused about what direction this D1 is progressing in.

Xix and Just need to post already, they've both been focal points of the discussion to some extent and yet they lack good content or opinions. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is scum anticipating a lynch and lurking in hopes that the big bad scary townies will go away if they do.

Punch Hopper

  • Punch Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #173 on: July 14, 2011, 12:05:43 AM »
Nav-tan doesn't want to play nice anymore. ヽ(;▽;)ノ I haven't been nodding and saying who sounds town when I post. If you're interested I can say it. It's not a good idea~☆ Your gut and I don't get along at all. I got the feeling you were skimming my posts when you didn't notice my unvote meaning Xix wasn't at L-1 when you told him to claim. That doesn't fly with you thinking I was scum all along~☆ You didn't answer why I was an interesting wagon to Xix's counterwagon and not the other way around. I think your suspicion is a reaction to the subtle prodding I've been giving you. I hope you change your mind again~☆

Depore and One immediately stuck me as scum. Depore is a fat-free wafer bar. No content no calories. That chainsaw onto Yuan for One-scum was horrible. Sadly Yuan already pointed this out but what can you do. ლ(?ロ?ლ) One-scum is still scum and you're writing him off too easily. His responses to Yuan have been mudslinging (5 unvotes?) and fluff while eschewing defending himself in lieu of trying to turn suspicion onto lurkers. What about Princess Miya? It's a random name thrown out to get us looking at anyone but him.

Since you're all so eager I'll let you have this while I keep reading. ☆〜(ゝ。∂)

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #174 on: July 14, 2011, 12:12:46 AM »
Hrm...One's post still doesn't address why he thinks Just is scummy, so I'd appreciate that.

@Orwen: Um...actually, consistency is pretty easily faked by scum, and in fact is more likely to come from them. They're the ones double checking their posts so they don't get voted. That said that's a theory argument.

Out of the "notable targets", I will only fully support lynches on Just and One. Mala and Moonin are pretty damn town and I will not be voting them today for anything short of a scum claim. Orwen I have as neutral leaning town, so I suppose I'd place a vote on him if it was a desperately needed lynch situation. I don't think that will happen. Depore, I've told you how I feel on. I'll put her in the same boat as Orwen, only voting in case of desperation.

Iffrita, what do you think of Xix's wagon completely disappearing? I'd have expected at least one or two votes on him still at this point. Actually, I pose this question to everyone. What do you think happened?

@Just: I was going by whoever said he was at L-2, IIRC. As for not answering you, quite honestly it wasn't a question worth answering. It was filler material that was at best noise. Your attack on Depore is interesting, particularly since he's a viable lynch now. A shame you never mentioned him before. At least you're keeping your One suspicion.

So then, do you think I'm actually scum, or are you going to poke me until you find something you think you can get away with attacking :3?

tl;dr Just is still scum who MAY have realized the seriousness of his situation. Kill him with fire, please.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #175 on: July 14, 2011, 12:15:12 AM »
Also I would LOVE a Princess Miya post but I'm not holding my breath.


Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #177 on: July 14, 2011, 12:21:32 AM »
Xix's wagon? You mean the illusion created by a bunch of people capitalizing on my D1 case and voting Xix for weaker reasons? I'm not surprised it dissipated at all. Ever since my re-read this morning I've been feeling like I was the only person with a sizable case on Xix who actually voted him.

Granted, I don't think Xix looks super townie, especially due to the completely lack of any posts from him. But I'm less interested in his lynch now that Moonin has touched my heart and shown me the light I realize the problem with Depore's vote on him. If you want to know whether or not I would vote with a Xix wagon if one suddenly sprung up again, then it mainly depends on which players I would be voting alongside.

I want to hear from Miya too, actually. I took a second look at her post and noticed that the way she attacked One and Moonin looked an awful lot like she was setting up some later jumps onto easy targets. It'd be neat to see another Mikhail post as well.

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #178 on: July 14, 2011, 12:21:41 AM »
Can't make a big post now, but first:

##Unvote
##Vote:Just


Orwen is still pretty meh, but at least I have some idea of where he stands, and there's no way he's getting lynched today anyway. Just still declining to provide content of note strikes me as far worse.
I'd also love to support a lynch on Xix. Xix, where'd you go?

I'm leaning town on Depore but he needs to post more and get those cases out instead of focusing on the same 4 damn people.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 1]
« Reply #179 on: July 14, 2011, 12:23:37 AM »
...who's Mikhail?

* Demon Navarus looks at player list

...uh, yeah! That'd be nice.

Anyway, as for the Xix wagon, or illusion as you call it, usually L-1 wagons have one or two lingerers. It's completely gone. I don't know what it means. I wonder what other people think it means. Still, I appreciate your answer.