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Excluding ending screens and/or ending dialogues, all other spoilers are okay to post. Thank you for cooperating until this moment.
- Make sure you're aware of the forum rules.
- Have a drink (non-alcohol if you're underaged!!) and enjoy!
Bugs, patches, news, other information from ZUN will be listed here:
- Current known version is 1.00 Comiket C92 release.
- Confirmed bug: Easy Difficulty - Stage 5 - Spell Cards #5 and #6 are bugged. Finishing off Satono will not capture the card but continue it and if you next take down Mai, the game will crash. To capture the card, you're forced to take down Mai first. This doesn't seem to be the case for Lunatic mode. Other difficulties are unknown.
Touhou 16 「東方天空璋 ～ Hidden Star in Four Seasons」
(http://i.imgur.com/zPfaprj.png)
Introduction
It is summer! No wait, it is autumn? Winter? S-spring!? What is happening? Touhou 16 is happening! Dear Touhou fans, ZUN has blessed us yet again with a brand new danmaku game. Some people might have forgotten about it, but it has been over two years since the release of Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom. We've already been informed quite a lot about this game by our hard working fans and forum members. So definitely a shout out to you for providing information, translations, tracking news and more. My gratitude is endless. All right! Let us see what ZUN has provided us this time?
Gensoukyou's seasons are out of control! The fairies are running rampant. This has yet another incident which needs to be resolved! Swiftly! "Isn't it kind of hot you bastard"
- Arrow keys - controll directional movement of your character.
- Z button - Fires your main shot.
- X button - Declares and fires your spell card. Or simply 'bomb'.
- Shift - Your movement becomes slower and your hitbox will appear.
- C button - Releases your season depending on your season gauge.
C button!? As if pressing X wasn't hard enough for many people. Now you have another button. And what the hell is this season thing anyway? Read on!
The Four Seasonal Player Characters
(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_002a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_002.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_003a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_003.png)
(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_004a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_004.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_005a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_005.png)
Four girls have decided to set out to get to the bottom of this incident. Wait a second. what happened to their looks? Is this because of the seasons being out of control?
※ Hakurei Reimu - The Hakurei Shrine area seems to be in full spring, with cherry blossoms blooming. She is wearing her usual clothes. My god, the size of that Gohei could poke your eye out from the entrance of the shrine yard
※ Cirno - Our cheerful fairy seems to have gotten a tan. Well, it is summer technically in Gensoukyo. Isn't she cute with that sun flower as ribbon?
※ Shameimaru Aya - The tengu reporter has been writing furiously about this incident. She is dressed in autumn colours because Youkai mountain is experiencing autumn. Autumn!! not fall!!
※ Kirisame Marisa - The Forest of Magic is fully covered in snow. Marisa trying to keep her warm with. It seems Perfect Cherry Blossom all over again. Wait, Marisa-san, aren't those latex gloves?
We already know from the trail version that each girl comes with her own main shot using Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter. Next to your main shot you can select a sub weapon. Your sub weapon isn't directly available at start. Neither you will get it if you press shift (focus mode). In order to power it up, you need to collect season items. Too complicated already? Do not worry. Everything will be explained. For those interested, here is a list of Kanji to help you out with the seasons:
※ 春 - (Haru) Spring - Green - Reimu
※ 夏 - (Natsu) Summer - Aqua - Cirno
※ 秋 - (Aki) Autumn - Red - Aya
※ 冬 - (Fuyu) Winter - Blue - Marisa
(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_006a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_006.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_007a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_007.png)
Example screenshot: Reimu's main shot is spring 夏 and supporting with winter 冬. In the second screen you can see little snow flakes, these are season items.
For some girls in this game, focussing doesn't necessary changes your shot type. For example: Sanae's unfocussed shot was frog bombs and homing snake shots in focussed mode. For some girls, focussing in this game will usually provide a tighter or more direct shot with your familiars. Keep in mind that none of this applies for your sub weapon.
| Girl ――――― | Main shot ――――― | Familiar shot ――――― | Focus mode ――――― | Bomb ――――― |
| Reimu | Straight amulets | Homing flower pletals | Concentrate on target | Fantasy Seal Blossom |
| Cirno | Ice spikes | Scattering ice shards | Decrease scattering | Sun Flower Pinwheel |
| Aya | Wind slashes | Spread wind shots | Piercing wind shots | Hurricane |
| Marisa | Magic missile | Spread frozen laser | Straight lasers | Master Spark Frozen |
Player Spell Cards (bomb)
※ Reimu's Yin Yang balls have turned into flowers. They will follow her while rotating around her, doing damage and shortly after homing in on enemies and exploding. Very flowerful.
※ When bombing with Cirno, a pin wheel will appear at her last location. Cirno can freely move while the pin wheel clears bullets and does damage.
※ Aya's spell card is most weirdest out of the four. A continuous gust of wind will appear at her last location doing damage. The most interesting thing is its behaviour. If you move left and bomb, the wind will slowly move towards the left. If you weren't moving, the wind gust won't move either.
※ When it comes to Marisa, you know that ZUN will deliver her a fitting effect for her bomb. Behold, 「Master Spark Frozen」. ZUN, I forgive you for giving Marisa a dull face in the previous game
Sub weapon and release effects
As mentioned in the introduction, the C button will release your season. You collect season items by shooting at enemies or bosses. Each season has its unique item appearance: pink flower petal, green leaf, red maple leaf, and blue snow flake. Depending on the level of your season, you will get ① more support familiars and ② exluding Cirno, a greater effect when releasing it. Oh and by the way, releasing your season does not render you immune. I made this mistake by rushing into Nemuno as Cirno while using my season and she turned me into shaved ice.
※ Spring: supports with mini yin yangs firing homing flower petals. When released, instantly clears bullets within a radius. The higher the level, the bigger the radius. At maximum level, the entire screen is covered.
※ Summer: supports with mini ice diamonds firing ice shards in a spread pattern. When released, creates a stationary ice circle with a fixed size and fixed duration clearing bullets and doing damage for its duration. Each usage costs ~90% of your current season gauge.
※ Autumn: supports with mini crows shooting wind slashes. When released, creates a brown fixed size circle which follows the player while giving increased movement. Bullets within are cleared and damage is done to enemies.
※ Winter: supports with mini hakkeros shooting straight lasers. When released, creates a stationary ice circle. The higher the level, the bigger the circle and longer the duration.
Most interesting to note about it is Cirno's and Marisa's season release. For Cirno, the circle has a fixed size and duration, regardless of your season level. Each usage depletes around 90% of your season gauge. Marisa on the other hand starts with a small circle and short duration and significantly increases size and duration.
The Girls Causing Trouble
(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_f_07.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_f_01.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_f_08.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_f_03.png)(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_f_09.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_f_05.png)
Music, sound, look and feel
The moment you start the game you're welcomed by Reimu and her very long gohei. I personally think Shinmyoumaru's powers had some effect on that. The music kicks in and it sounds very cheerful and bright. Only after being exposed to the game several times, you can start to feel that the music takes you through the glory of four seasons. Based on the earlier games, ZUN is definitely trying to deliver us new dynamic menus and colourful images. But what ever he does, he always keeps the core Touhou elements in there; such as the difficulty selection. Also nice touch with the large character silhouette in the background.
Right, let us roll with one of our heroines! You're immediately thrown into the first stage where the action immediately begins. No time to view the beautiful background (which is improving with each game). Thankfully I am playing Easy Mode so I have plenty of time and space to take note of a lot of details. And those details are all over the place. If you paid attention in the trial version, you're transitioning between seasons. A beautiful mountain view in stage two coloured in beautiful autumn colours, as if it is Mountain of Faith all over again. Mysterious and dark shrine area, full of blooming cherry blossoms. The hot summer skies and evergreen fields. Hence Marisa''s opening line where she is complaining and swearing became famous. And many fans love her for that. Speaking of love for Marisa. Did you know ZUN gave her a new Master Spark? Master Spark Frozen. FROZEN!!.
(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_0141a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_0141.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_016a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_016.png)
(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_015a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_015.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_017a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_017.png)
Sorry Cirno, even if your sunflower pinwheel looks very cool, you cannot surpass the flashy Master Spark Frozen.
Each stage also has its own fitting sound track and enemies. Green fairies in the summer stage, pink dark fairies during spring and ice blue fairies, throwing cold danmaku at you in the fourth stage where finally a cheerful but quite skilled opponent awaits you. During this battle, you'll be surprised by her talents and spell cards. I definitely got surprised and again turned into shaved ice. And as if that wasn't enough, in the next stage, even on easy mode, the difficulty seems to suddenly spike up. During my battle with Satono and Mai, I really wanted to stick that leaf and bamboo stick they're holding in their back doors for not letting me take screenshots in peace. Oh, and did I mention the major smug this game contains? You don't believe me do you?
(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_011a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_011.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_012a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_012.png)
How about you two take those things you're holding and sho-(ry
(http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_019a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_019.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_020a.png) (http://www.taihou.nl/th16/th16_020.png)
Battle of the smug. Girls are now Trashtalking, please watch warmly.
All in all, I would say: Impressive smug faces girls. But the true smug of LoLK cannot be surpassed. CHANG'E, ARE YOU LOOKING!?
Conclusion
I seriously cannot stop wondering how ZUN always seem to "1up" his game when it comes to beauty. At some point you're wondering when he is going to stop producing these games. But guessing from the story line, the character development, the resolved incidents and of course the music, we can definitely expect a few more releases in the future.
Of course there are some things to be said about the game mechanics he implemented. First of all, it seems we've returned back to the plain get-x-score-for-the-next-extend. Bombs are still collected through bomb pieces. In comparison to the previous shooter, LoLK had the unique Point Device system which fit with the story line. In HSiFS, the story line is somewhat straight forward. The main focus seems to be on season items and you're encouraged to utilize it in order to make your life easier through out the higher difficulties. Sadly, I cannot tell whether this adds an interesting dimension to scoring or not.
All in all ZUN has taken the season theme very seriously and is reflecting it from stages one to four. We're offered beautiful images, introduction a new "house hold" (with very very interesting stories). Take my advice: Launch the game in Easy mode and go explore. Listen. Look. Feel. Did you notice Nemuno's sword gleaming during her attacks? Did you notice the fairies slowly appearing from the cold fog in stage four? Did your pupils dilate each time Okina launched a spell card? Did you complain and swear about the weather?
Touhou is more than just a bullet hell shooter in my opinion. It is a story to tell, a movie to see, a book read, a music CD to listen. And lately also, with much surprise, an even more wider spreading culture.
なんだよ楽しいじゃねーか、このヤロー
--Helepolis
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ZUN posted (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DG6HtzdUQAAYtdE.jpg:orig) a view of his booth.
Side sash description:
桜を見ながら西瓜をわり、紅葉を見ながら鍋をつつく
こんな季節に誰がした！
イレギュラーでシーズナルなシューティング幻想！
Viewing cherry blossoms while cutting up watermelons; gazing at red leaves while picking up food from hotpots.
Who could have caused such a season!?
An IRREGULARLY SEASONAL Shooting Fantasy!
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*shaking with anticipation* :o
Also, isn't the newest episode of Hifuu Club Activity Record also on the way?
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The countdown begins. Looks like I'm gonna have something to look forward to seeing soon. I'm interested in both the characters and how the other stages are like in a visual and gameplay perspective.
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New screenshot from, presumably, the back of the game's case showing a new boss' pattern (can't really make much of the sprite, as always)
http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1502414741401.jpg
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One thing to notice about the screenshot is that it seems that
the bug involving Winter options hasn't been fixed, though this screenshot might've been taken before it was.
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The following text is considering a spoiler as it speculates about images on the back of the game's case that show content we have not yet seen.
I downloaded that image and zoomed in on the boss. From my perspective, she looks like she has big, empty eyes and is holding onto some kind of sunhat on her head. (Could be totally wrong, it's like assigning shapes to clouds.) My current guess is some kind of ghost or zombie with a spooky design. Of course, I'm looking at a heavily pixelated image that is also partially covered by Marisa's shots, so I'm probably wrong.
Yuki-onna though?
Meanwhile, the spell card background looks like some kind of spiraling dragon. I like the design. Also, what's with that attack? Is it just random dodging yellow talismans? I guess we'll have to wait.
-Post edited a couple of times to add more speculation, and finally edited to include the pre-spoiler text-
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Here's a shot of the back of the CD case, with the aforementioned boss screenshot and a screenshot of one of the new stages in the corner:
http://i.4cdn.org/jp/1502416168130.png
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The following text is considered a spoiler, as it speculates content from the back of the game case that shows off areas of the game we have not yet seen.
(I'm just going to label my spoilers so that people can know whether they should hover over them or not.)
That picture makes the (presumably) stage 4 boss look even more like a zombie. Also, I am not looking forward to dodging those winter fairy ice walls. I can barely dodge things coming from one direction, thank you.
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Meanwhile, the spell card background looks like some kind of spiraling dragon. I like the design. Also, what's with that attack? Is it just random dodging yellow talismans? I guess we'll have to wait.
My guess is that the spiraling things spawn bullets in place which start flying outward after a second or two, so by the time the bullets get to you, they'll all be clumped together in a near-wall. Good thing I'm not a no-release player.
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Ohhhhh daaaang someone on Weibo already got their hands on a copy and posted all the bosses. This is the fastest it's happened in years, I think.
Link here. (http://s.weibo.com/weibo/%25E5%25A4%25A9%25E7%25A9%25BA%25E7%2592%258B?topnav=1&wvr=6&b=1)
Stage 4 boss is a jizo statue magician, Stage 5 bosses are Matarajin's servants, Stage 6 and EX boss is Matarajin. I can't read Chinese for beans but apparently the Matarajin lady is one of Gensokyo's sages? I also dunno how the characters' names are read but the kanji are posted there too.
edit: (hardly a spoiler -->) ...ZUN was right about the art from Stage 4 on looking a little wonky :V
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Aaaaand we still ended up with only 4 characters, assuming that the final boss is indeed also the EX boss.
And what's so creepy about stage 4 boss?
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Ohhhhh daaaang someone on Weibo already got their hands on a copy and posted all the bosses. This is the fastest it's happened in years, I think. Link here. (http://s.weibo.com/weibo/%25E5%25A4%25A9%25E7%25A9%25BA%25E7%2592%258B?topnav=1&wvr=6&b=1)
Stage 4 boss is a jizo statue magician, Stage 5 bosses are Matarajin's servants, Stage 6 and EX boss is Matarajin. I can't read Chinese for beans but apparently the Matarajin lady is one of Gensokyo's sages? I also dunno how the characters' names are read but the kanji are posted there too.
seems like that prediction was correct
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And what's so creepy about stage 4 boss?
There was never anything 'creepy' about the bosses; basically ZUN said on a stream that the game's story may be kinda weird and curveball-ey compared to what most people might be expecting. Some western fans misinterpreted his phrasing as saying 'ooo it's gonna be grimdaaaark' which, nah
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I think they're fake. If you look closely at the bottom right of
http://ww2.sinaimg.cn/bmiddle/be8f9ff3ly1fifkdfzmmij20rs0p0h1u.jpg
's face,
it's a bit jagged. ZUN wouldn't let that slide. Also, the "effects" wouldn't be a solid color.
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The following text is considered a spoiler as it is speculating about the boss sprites.
Whoa. Yes, this betrayed my expectations, because it's exactly what we expected. Was that ZUN being meta or just all a misunderstanding? First of all, the stage 4 boss isn't creepy, which I am content with. She honestly looks a little boring, design-wise... like an ordinary priest or noble, idk. It probably makes sense though. Second, I expected the two side figures to be very serious and stern, for some reason. Turns out they're prancing around with bamboo. Huh. Finally, the final boss being the EX boss... is disappointing, to be honest. Also, for some reason I expected the final boss to have some kind of "come at me!" pose. Guess not. It all looks a lot less... serious... than I was expecting. Huh. Guess we'll have to wait for the actual story to see how this rolls.
Any idea what the weird mirror and/or frame are? Neither of them look like a scepter.
Edit: these are almost assuredly real.
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Names and abilities for the bosses in the above posts:
Narumi Yatadera, ability to use magic (mainly life control magic). Satono Nishida (the pink one), ability to draw out mental energy via her dancing. Mai Teireida (green one), ability to draw out life energy via her dancing. Okina Matara, ability to create a door on the back of anything? I think? Don't quote me on any of these right now
Also there's screenshots starting to roll in from the coolier uploader. (Look, don't touch; some jokester started uploading joke screens back in LoLK's case): http://coolier.dip.jp/th_up4/ (http://coolier.dip.jp/th_up4/)
edit: The bosses are definitely real. Mai's the Stage 4 midboss and pops in for the pre-boss conversation. The dialogue portraits look waaaay better at full resolution imo.
Probably in a minute or two I'll be busy transcribing stuff from screenshots and won't be able to keep up w/ posting here but O Well
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Oh god, the designs are many kinds of amazing as usual. Can't wait to give the game a spin for the music.
And as a cosplayer, why Zun why
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Wait, MAI comes back?!
EDIT: Oops, you mean the new Mai character, not PC-98 Mai. I only have myself to blame for this sense of betrayal.
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please stop
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Wait, MAI comes back?! From PC-98?! This is big news!
I dunno if you're joking or not but I mean Mai as in Mai Teireida, the green Matarajin servant. Speaking of whom, she pops up and basically just sics Narumi on you like 'hey your powers are like supercharged right now, go get her' and Narumi's like OH MAN IS THAT REIMU??? IM GONNA FITE HER i don't know if she even notices that mai is there lol
edit: Whoops your edit pre-empted me, sorry
edit 2: Bah the coolier uploader crapped out on me. I may have made a mistake in providing the link to the uhhh wow, 129 people currently viewing this thread. Or maybe my internet's just finicky. Either way, whoopsy
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False alarm, there are no PC-98 characters returning.
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I'm not sure how to completely feel yet until I hear what the story's about.:ohdear: I feel rather disappointed atm though, I was expecting something entirely out of left field.
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Stage 5 boss and Stage 6 themes are pretty sick
The final boss changes locales to the previous stages after every card
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The final boss changes locales to the previous stages after every card
Ohhhhh that sounds so stylish. Based on this and some of the dialogue I've seen so far (i got cut off but im reopening the coolier uploader now after restarting my comp) I'm expecting the 'weird curveball some-people-might-not-like-it' thing ZUN talked about means that the final boss is Actually A Bigtime Dramatic Plot Lady for once??? hmmmMmmMm
e: n/m on the coolier thing it's still not workin. o well ( .w.)
e2: vvvv I HUNGER FOR LIVESTREAM!! TO NICOVIDEO I GO
e3: on second thought i wanna see the stages in order so i'll wait for one of the upcoming ones to start
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I'm watching a livestream of a Lunatic run. I'll be posting details as it plays. SPOILERS OBV
STAGE 4: White Blizzard Out of Season
-Not in the Forest of Magic. Apparently in the sky?
-Many enemy fairies need to die since they WILL travekl to the bottom
-Whoops missed the midboss typing this LOL
-Bamboo chick is really animated
-Goddamn yes the statue girl's theme
-Nonspell: Amulet lanes you need to cross through
-Spell 1: Yellow amulets spawn increasingly close to you and twist
-Missed spell 2
-Spell 3: Rising fireball bullet clusters that fall back down
STAGE 5: Into Crazy Backdoor
-Really weird dimension literally full of doors. So the S6 boss's power is literal? The post-midboss background effects show that the doors open into the other stage backgrounds/season locations?
-Really nice, somber stage theme
-Works kind of like Stage 4's fairies with the waves you need to kill before you get sniped by aimed bullets from the bottom of the screen, except with lasers as well
-Midboss: Fast AF crisscrossing green amulets oh jesus
-Post midboss fairies flood the screen with blue bullets, so you NEED to use releases here or die.
-Other big fairies fly in across the screen doing the same.
-Bosses: Bamboo chick shoots fast crisscrossing amulets, non-bamboo girl shoots slower creeping ones
-Missed spell 1
-Spell 2: green bullets creep from the top of the screen and scatter in semirandom directions
-Spell 3: Same, but also turn into aimed arrowhead backshots when they hit the bottom of the screen
-Spell 4: Curvy lasers and amulets
STAGE 6: Hidden Star in Four Seasons
-Stage BGM is in katakana and is super spooky sounding
-Multiple death fairies with charge effects who spew resources when dead
-Background is really cool; black void as you approach opening doors into other dimensions
-S6 boss is super cool looking with her sprite!!
-Nonspell: volleys of kunai bullets (think Hecatia) the kunais per spell are colored after each of the serasons, apparently
-Her cool S6 boss thing is that the doors open into other backgrounds per spell; we go through the Spring (S1) Autumn (S2) Spring (S3) Winter (S4) stage backgrounds.
-Spell 2: Fireballs from all directions
-Nonspell 3 is literally BOWAP wtf
-Spell 3: Same as S3 final spell, but fireballs turn into aimed bullets at the top
-Spell 4 Dark bullets which lighten up when approaching you
-Spell 5: Falling bullets from the sides bounce back upwards into gravity bullets
-Final spell: Remember that one boss from the 199X games with the lasers that constrict your space? It's that plus with thick bullet rings, then other bullets as the boss's health goes down
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Eternity
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I heard during the last spell of Stage 6 releases are disabled.
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Eternity
Was it really fixed or left as "Etarnity" (and various other inconsistencies)
?
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Easy 1cc seems to unlock Extra
"Fifth season" predictions were entirely true as well! -> EX Stage
You get a Fifth subweapon, it shoots behind you. And appropriately for those paying attention, the release itself is like Summer but it also moves backwards lol
EX gives so many extends
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Interesting! And is the Ex boss really the Last few bosses together?
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No, it's just Okina. Mai and Satono are a duo as midboss
Woahhhhh the EX final card is cool as heck
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Won't be general spoilers but people who do have it, how difficult is the entire game compared to its predecessors? Like would you consider it an easier or more difficult game in the series despite just being out?
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The guy who was posting screenshots for the 2ch thread I'm reading continued posting them with imgur links and im Very Excited For This
LMAO OKINA'S FINAL CARD IS YOUR OWN SUBWEAPON, SHE STEALS IT and text pops up on the screen saying 'face the strongest enemy of all...thy own sub-season!!!' it's so cheesy??
I'm inferring that the game's regular ending is basically 'you can't beat her using regular seasons!! she's invincible!! retreat!!' and then you fight her with season #5 in the extra stage, i'm so twelve years old for this
edit: WAIT SHE STEALS ALL YOUR POWER ITEMS TOO. I FINALLY GET WHAT ZUN MEANT BY 'YOU'LL FEEL BAD AT THE END OF IT' LMAO
the final boss pulls your cool subweapon out from under you and you have to use a really weird one for the extra stage, and even if you get the good ending you haven't beaten the final boss in-universe until you clear said extra stage.... oh my god.... no wonder lmao
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Once again confirming Eternity's name has been fixed. Meanwhile, Narumi's lifebar text says "Naruko" instead lmao
oh my god this music is good
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oh my god, the extra stage isn't an extra stage it's a:
REVENGING STAGE (http://i.imgur.com/ubmyizH.jpg)
[/b][/size][/i]
I love this, I love this, this is so needlessly chunibyou dramatic by touhou standards, im so twelve for this
edit: i retract an earlier statement about the Doyō subweapon being weird, it is weird (shoots exclusively behind you) but apparently most of the enemies in the extra stage come from behind you, so
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Cause of death: Laughing way too much at R E V E N G I N G S T A G E
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Videos are up on Nicoooooooooooo
The 'thing in common' that the stage 1~4 bosses have is that they're all usually 'hidden'. A totally unremarkable fairy, a mountain hermit, a shrine guardian who normally tries to work unseen, and a jizo statue who lives alone in the forest. (Some JP people also theorized that they have "symbols of divine worlds and/or the afterlife" in common as foreshadowing for Matarajin's whole 'world beyond' thing, which a jizo character fits in with quite nicely.)
They also literally have doors on their backs. Like, stuck on there. Ew. Mai forgets to close the one on Narumi's back when making her exit and Reimu just jumps on in there
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The 'thing in common' that the stage 1~4 bosses have is that they're all usually 'hidden'. A totally unremarkable fairy, a mountain hermit, a shrine guardian who normally tries to work unseen, and a jizo statue who lives alone in the forest. (Some JP people also theorized that they have "symbols of divine worlds and/or the afterlife" in common as foreshadowing for Matarajin's whole 'world beyond' thing, which a jizo character fits in with quite nicely.)
Oh hey my theory was actually right! Cool!
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Wait, what? Am I correct in assuming there is no new extra character this time around? Damn...
Also any news on spell practice? Last words, etc?
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I haven't watch any videos, but from the descriptions and images, the flavor for this game is right down my alley.
The ability to create doors to back of anything, a door dimension with nothing but ominous floating doors, and "REVENGING STAGE". This is genius.
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Lmaooooo the final boss's final card is basically a scripted unwinnable fight, you're stripped of all your options and have to use only your regular lil' forward shot so unless you're a super player you'll either time the thing out or run the clock down to 10 seconds or so. No wonder ZUN said the game's aftertaste was gonna be grooooooooosss, hahahahaaaaa
edit: to clarify, I Actually Do Love This
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Anyone noticed how the entire plot of Touhou Tenkuushou ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons is basically a Whole Plot Reference (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WholePlotReference) to Len'en Mugenri ~ Evanescent Existence?
I was just joking around when I said in the original topic:
That said, I wonder if ZUN is aware of JynX and the Len'En series?
After the revel of the full version, I guess ZUN really is aware of JynX and Len'En, after all
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It really isn't. I don't really know how you're making that connection.
Anyways the final card differences are pretty interesting:
Spring: Walls and large bullets possibly meant to mimic Reimu's walls and yinyangs?
Summer: Haven't seen because nobody uses Summer lmao
Fall: Aya's bouncing patterns such as in StB's Cleansed Crystal Judgement and her cards in DS lmao
Winter: Straight lasers firing down while she moves across the screen like an old STG
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Summer is giant icicle eternal meek, but she moves around the screen in a circle. Think Byakuren's last non, but she doesn't go quite so far down. The last phase adds aimed bullets.
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It's just Summers being Summers, Drake. Nothing to see here.
Anyway, the new characters and all of the plot details are pretty sweet, I think HSiFS might just be a step up from LoLK in a couple places.
Also, the final boss joining the likes of Vile, Ramirez, Jetstream Sam and every other famous at-first-hopeless boss battle with that last card, is going to be quite the talk of the town for a good while.
...Speaking of Okina and her powers, also looking forward to the possible mixture of jokesters who will make probable fan art/animations involving parodies the Scooby-Doo Door Gag.... maybe. If it doesn't happen, well, sometimes these things aren't meant to be, y'know?
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I'm so, so glad that cuc already did all the heavy lifting with Matarajin research for us, because I'd be taking waaay longer to translate otherwise. Thank you so so so much, cuc.
Cirno's scenario is hilarious because Satono's like "mai wtf why did you bring a rando fairy in here" and instead of passing their test, Cirno straight-up fails it, and they just leave her there while they go get scolded by Okina, and Cirno just sits there for a minute before deciding to wreck the place. I can't wait to see Cirno's EX dialogue just to see Okina being flabbergasted at the rando fairy somehow barging in again with the perfect counterattack for her season-door gimmick lmao
edit: Marisa's dialogue with Narumi is adorable. "You're that magic jizo girl, aren'tcha?" "And you're the magic human girl, aren't you?"
...Uh, but her name's written as Naruko in Marisa's dialogue, too. With furigana and everything. Either it's a nickname for her, or ZUN made a huuuuge oversight.
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Wait, you're saying there are two different graphics? Or that her name is written 成美^なるこ in dialogue? The latter could be an error in not changing her in-development name but the former would have implications
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Wait, you're saying there are two different graphics? Or that her name is written 成美^なるこ in dialogue? The latter could be an error in not changing her in-development name but the former would have implications
See here. (http://www.dotup.org/uploda/www.dotup.org1335025.jpg) It's the latter, so it's probably an in-development name
yeah
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It really isn't. I don't really know how you're making that connection.
Len'en Mugenri ~ Evanescent Existence plot: Senri Tsurubami warps the entire cast member into Mugenri, and have them fight each other to see who's the most suitable to replace him(?) while he's away on a vacation. Basically a very violent job interview that none of the main cast are even aware of, and held without their permission.
Touhou Tenkuushou ~ Hidden Star in Four Seasons plot: Matara sets up the game's incident to see who's going to try and solve it (in this case the heroines), and see if they are worthy of working for her. A violent job interview held without the heroine's permission, and they aren't even aware of it until they meet her in person.
See the similarity? Both games had their main culprit basically hold a very violent job interview to see if the protagonists are worthy of a job with them. Both "interviews" are held without the protagonists permission and their being aware of it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTWBcoKiTWQ
gg 1cc!
Also Aunn is cute in Reimu's ending.
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See the similarity?
That is a really, really tenuous similarity. If anything, ZUN has clearly lifted Drake's Black Squares of Death (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRbjelU4ILs).
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Quick question, but what's the race of the stage 5 bosses? Thanks in advance!
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Quick question, but what's the race of the stage 5 bosses? Thanks in advance!
Species: Human (?)
question mark included
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Sweet, I already found a glitch.
In Spell Practice, for Stage 5 - Spellcard 4, on Normal difficulty (possibly others), killing the boss (pink one- Satono, I think) will not result in the card ending, though bullets will stop spawning. I think that this is because of the green one showing up at the beginning, and then running off-screen. After the pink one is dead, homing bullets head towards the upper right corner where the green one went. There's no way to kill the green one, so it is impossible to capture this card in spell bonus. I'm not sure how this plays in the real game, since I failed to capture it then, but I'll go into stage practice and see if it does.
EDIT: The spell works perfectly fine in spell practice. Killing the boss ends the card. In hindsight, capturing it has nothing to do with it- you just need to kill the boss. Still though, ZUN, fix yo game. This seems like an amateur mistake, especially considering that it works fine for at least spellcard 1 in stage practice. (I haven't unlocked 2/3 yet, okay? I do like how you pick your spellcards based on who you shoot down, though.)
Also, about the Len'en EE comparisons:
The "winter" spell card for the final boss is very similar to a card from the Stage 1 boss of EE. Large black bullets swarm the whole screen, but they regain their color and shrink a bit when they get close to you.
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Speaking of comparisons
Part of the melody of the Ex boss theme really reminded me of Heavenly Gathering of Clouds' Ex Boss theme too. Quite a coincidence!
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Now that people are playing the game, a quick 'n dirty update on background info. Continuing from the last thread (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20728.msg1354940.html#msg1354940). UPDATE: Slightly edited, spoiler markers removed.
Jizō:
You can find info on Jizō statues everywhere, so let's focus on the writing on Narumi's scarf: 畢竟成佛 (JP: hikkyō jōbutsu), "ultimate attainment of Buddhahood", the last of the 28 benefits of worshipping Jizō.
What does the writings on her hat mean? Sorry, no one has yet to figure out. See the wiki (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Narumi_Yatadera#Design).
Narumi's surname, Yatadera (http://www.yatadera.or.jp/languages/en.html) is a temple that houses Japan's oldest Jizō statue, famous for its hydrangea flowers.
Tokoyo Kami:
常世 Tokoyo, "the World of Constancy" (https://books.google.com/books?id=QRUZiQ_XawkC&pg=PA429&lpg=PA429&dq=tokoyo+constancy&source=bl&ots=hoMv_8ESTV&sig=pe6o5SH2hGz9IAIGHdGg0BOzdmY&hl=zh-CN&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTpLL_o8_VAhXBE5QKHVkVAG0Q6AEIMTAC#v=onepage&q=tokoyo%20constancy&f=false) is a basic concept in Shintoism, forming a dichtomy with Utsutsuyo - the reality, the waking world. It is the land of immortality beyond the sea where the gods (and/or the deceased) live, unlike the mortal island the ancient Japanese inhabited. It can also be interpreted darkly as 常夜 "Forever Night", which would be the same thing as Yomi, the dreary land of the dead.
(Also, the English wikipedia page of Tokoyo is about a story of highly questionable reliability from a 1900 English book. Ignore it.)
20 years after the death of Prince Shoutoku, our old friend Hata no Kawakatsu, the legendary inventor of noh, discovered (https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=HSTRQh71raMC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=hata+kawakatsu+tokoyo&source=bl&ots=RDI48zbQBV&sig=ivp3shbLsrGM77WpeP3CAbaZyNo&hl=zh-CN&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjz9bX1pc_VAhUGGpQKHTlTBH8Q6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=hata%20kawakatsu%20tokoyo&f=false) a cult that worshipped a swallowtail caterpillar as "Tokoyo Kami". He killed the founder, putting an end to this cult.
Yep, should've written about this earlier, but it hadn't come up once in the years since Kokoro's debut, so I never expected the script to directly call it out.
Matara-jin:
First of all, I forgot to explain that "ushirodo" literally means "back entrance" (of the hall of worship), though the word is only used in the specific temple architecture context: a place where the temple's "real founding patron", rather than the god open to public worship, is located.
Okina:
The Hata clan worships Matara-jin as an 翁面 okina-men (http://db2.the-noh.com/edic/2013/02/matarajin.html), an old man's mask in noh theater, claiming it to be a manifestation of Hata no Kawakatsu.
However, our character's name is written 隠岐奈, sharing two kanji with Oki Islands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oki_Islands), a place for exiles. The key kanji here is 隠 "hidden", probably as Touhou's traditional name drop, where one or more kanji from the game title appears in character names, except this time the name drop occurs with the English subtitle. Of course, there are many hidden things relevant to the story, such as the idol of Matara-jin, or the paradise of Gensokyo.
God of sericulture:
The most important thing about the Hata clan isn't that they supposedly invented noh, or they called themselves descedants of China's first emperor Qin Shi Huang, who migrated into Japan in 3rd century CE. It's that they were said to have brought sericulture and silk-weaving into Japan. Referenced by Okina's 3rd Extra Stage spell card, 秘儀「弾幕の玉繭」 Secret Ritual "Danmaku Double Cocoon". 玉繭 tamamayu ("jade cocoon"? "globular cocoon"?) refers to a double cocoon, which is formed by two silkworms.
宿神 shuku-jin, or god of discriminated peoples:
In the character profile, ZUN used the word 被差別民 (hisabetsu-min), which is essentially a Japanese translation of "discriminated people", a politically correct term. A word you more likely see in English reportage is "buraku-min" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin). These words refer to the many outcast groups in Japan, who still suffer from discrimination to the modern day. In the Middle Ages, they lived by working in occupations considered unclean to normal peasants: butchery, leatherworking, street cleaning, and nomadic performers - see the connection?
Shuku (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%99), written 夙 or 宿 ("shelter"), was a medieval term for outcasts. Their patron gods are known as "shuku-jin", which were a jumble of many strands of faiths.
Earth mother:
Coming back to the topic of Tantric weirdness, etymologically, the name of "Matara" should have come from the Sanskrit mātaraḥ, which is the plural of matar "mother[/i]. This gives rise to the theory that Matara-jin is actually female, and her true identity is similar to motherly demon-goddesses like Hariti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hariti) (read the story; it's a popular one among Buddhists). Also, academics argued his two servants represent sexual intercourse?
God of hindrance:
As a demon, Matara-jin can also be a harmful source of spiritual "hindrance" that keeps people from wisdom, i.e. the kleshas we touched on before. This aspect seems to equate him with the tantric god Vinayaka, better known as Ganesha (however, Ganesha is often said to be a destroyer of hindrance). Black magic. The nomadic outcasts were probably going to need it?
EDIT: Also see this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,20979.msg1357670.html#msg1357670).
Bacchanalian festival:
In Kyoto, the Hata has a clan temple founded by Kawakatsu, the Kōryu-ji (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dry%C5%AB-ji). The temple's "Cow Festival" (http://goinjapanesque.com/05055/), considered among "the Three Strange Festivals of Kyoto", held in Matara-jin's name, has always amazed scholars with its unusual rituals, from dances that seem to imitate sex, to the farcial "Tengu Intimidation" 天狗怖し (Tengu Odoshi) that's said to drive away obnoxious tengu.
無縁 muen:
Originally a Buddhist term meaning "without (karmic) connection", and referring to the dead strangers who has no local social ties in Gensokyo's "Muenzuka", this word has been adopted by modern historians to describe historic groups who were outside the normal hierarchical structures, which include the outcasts and nomadic performers. The word appears in Okina's 8th Extra Stage spell card, 秘儀「無縁の芸能者」 Secret Ritual "Performers Without Social Ties".
Conclusion:
Over time, any gods, monsters, and historical figures whose popularity has lived on would inevitably pick up a ton of miscellaneous lore. The Japanese aristocracy was also a small place where everyone was related to everyone. All that means is if you want to see connection between them, you can always find one. But like any writer, when creating Touhou, ZUN only chooses some of the most important lore about a figure, the core that makes the legend what it is, to base his character on.
However, the mystery of Matara-jin is that the god has no such core - he/she is nothing but a collection of these mythical flotsam. And this very chaotic nature becomes the feature of HSiFS's story.
I actually think ZUN has chosen a core identity to focus on - the shuku-jin role of Matara-jin, making her a patron of Gensokyo's outcasts. But there is still no emotionally moving backstory like we had with most main entries, and he soldiered ahead with the absence of one.
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Also, about the Len'en EE comparisons:
The "winter" spell card for the final boss is very similar to a card from the Stage 1 boss of EE. Large black bullets swarm the whole screen, but they regain their color and shrink a bit when they get close to you.
And again, how do we know Len'en didn't steal this from Drake, hm? Drake was first to do this.
Nothing further, your honor.
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Also, yet ANOTHER potential EE connection:
One of the Extra stage boss cards resemble Disguised Tsurubami's spinning-around card from Stage 3. Two cards from Okina? This is getting out of hand.
EDIT: Also, another glitch!
In Stage 5, Spellcard 6 (tested on Normal Spell Practice), if you shoot down the pink one, she'll just vanish and the card will continue. If you shoot down the green one, the card will end.
I would test this with Spellcard 5 as well, but I'm not good enough to capture that one, so...
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Just finished watching the game on Youtube. Really looking forward to playing this one, it looks great. Stage 5 and 6 boss themes are really good, but the Extra stage and boss themes blow everything else in the game out of the water. The late-game backgrounds are really good, as well -- fantastically creepy with the theme of
doors / windows opening onto everywhere
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Edit: Decided to input more thoughts
Thoughts:
Narumi is adorable and i fail to understand the creepiness behind her other than the fact she has slightly big ears... and her theme is pretty good not to mention her spellcard attacks were tough....
Not really fond of Satono and Mai nor their theme but their spellcard attacks were pretty neat... in a way
Okina taking away my power + sub shot was a bit of a screw over since i couldn't capture her spellcard but eventually did in spell practice and i can hardly take her seriously because in my mind i imagine her as a little sister of junko but with a superiority complex
It was a bit disappointing knowing there wasn't a new extra stage boss and okina ended up being that extra stage boss. However i find her EX portrait more favorable than her Stage 6 / Final stage potrait
The Themes of: Etanity, Nemuno, Aunn, Narumi, Extra stage and Okina's Remixed EX theme are my favorites. Overall favorite theme being etanity's
Expectations i had:
Yuki (or mai) or letty being in the winter stage as a Midboss (despite yuki's powers being fire she did appear as a boss alongside mai in Makai's frozen world)
Yuuka appearing as an extra stage boss (because of the whole "Flower Master of the Four Seasons" title she has) or at cirno's good ending
Mima appearing
a season-esque boss
despite me yammering all about this the game's pretty good
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Just finished watching the game on Youtube. Really looking forward to playing this one, it looks great. Stage 5 and 6 boss themes are really good, but the Extra stage and boss themes blow everything else in the game out of the water. The late-game backgrounds are really good, as well -- fantastically creepy with the theme of doors / windows opening onto everywhere
Good to see someone else appreciating the extra tracks. Those were the ones that stood out to me on a first listen, though the others are growing on me too since they fit very well in game. More importantly though I really like the danmaku in this game. TD was a real letdown in terms of danmaku aesthetics and DDC wasn't too hot either. LoLK had some really good stuff but also had Junko (Hecatia minus her Spirit World spells and Clownpiece's spells looked pretty bad too). This one seems to be consistently pretty from start to end.
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"back entrance"
I can already tell what the first wave of doujins with this character will be about.
Also, this game's story raises SO many new questions... Hope to see new characters in WaHH soon or something.
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I can already tell what the first wave of doujins with this character will be about.
( ͡? ͜ʖ ͡?)
EDIT
Clarste translated the character profiles:
http://clarste.tumblr.com/post/164063890796/maybe-im-super-late-on-this-but-here-are-my
Obviously, following the link is SPOILERS.
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Also, this game's story raises SO many new questions... Hope to see new characters in WaHH soon or something.
Boy do I agree with you there. Like this bit in the character profile of our final boss, as translated by Clarste:
"Not only that, she?s also one of the sages who created modern Gensokyo. She bears the duty of protecting Gensokyo from the outside world, as well as preserving the balance of Gensokyo from any mysterious lifeforce or spiritual power seeking to secretly gain control of it, no matter where the threat comes from. She normally relies on her hands (Mai and Satono)."
Reading this I'm like "whoah, hang on", and thinking about the retcon possibilities that may arise from this. But even if there's no retcon, it still opens up a lot of possibilities regarding our understanding of how Gensokyo is "administrated", as it were.
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Has anybody mentioned that after
Cirno beat the extra boss, Matara said that apparently Eternity is a god? (Not joking)
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So does anyone have idea
why does Okina have a mirror? Does it hold any importance?
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Interesting thing about stage 4 boss. The way she appears strongly reminds me of
how you use Jizo statues in 14.3. You could say the midboss character used her as a substitution to take your attack in her stead!
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Small question regarding the shot types:
Is there any reason not to use autumn?
Compared to the others, autumn seems to be the best by far. Winter might offer a small increase in focused damage but the difference is small and focus damage isn't always possible. Summer might have multiple uses but the area and duration is pathetic, just like the spread damage. And lastly, spring, which increases the area with each level up to a screen clear. It's usability still pales compared to autumn from what i've seen due to needing a high level for anyworthy effect. the homing shots are nice though.
Maybe I just don't see the use of the others but autumn seems to be the way to go for survivability and score.
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Small question regarding the shot types:
Is there any reason not to use autumn?
Probably because it's dangerous? I hate using it at the demo, if you screw up you can die pretty easily.
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Small question regarding the shot types: Is there any reason not to use autumn?
No, not really.
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Autumn has the best release but the worst sub options. They don't do all that much damage or improve spread, and you can't even shotgun with them. In comparison, the winter sub options give you a pretty large damage boost and the summer sub options give you a pretty good range boost, with the added bonus of being hard to lose all of them. Spring is ???
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I just played a Lunatic blind run, the trial stages were easy (I played 'em before) but the rest is brutal.
How hard is the Extra?
Which would be the best shotype?
I'm lovin' this game! I hope THCRAP translates the remaining half of the game soon.
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I just played a Lunatic blind run, the trial stages were easy (I played 'em before) but the rest is brutal.
How hard is the Extra?
Which would be the best shotype?
I'm lovin' this game! I hope THCRAP translates the remaining half of the game soon.
Extra is not very hard (probably around UFO Extra level). You move around a lot, so Reimu is the best imo.
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Another stage 4 boss observation.
Her hat does make her look a bit mushroom-like, so she really fits the Forest of Magic.
Also, she's unexpectedly adorable. Almost as much as Aunn. inb4 Marisa adopts her
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So does anyone have idea why does Okina have a mirror? Does it hold any importance?
It's a mystery. Matara-jin is depicted holding a drum in his hand, and has no association with mirror in the original lore. Could be a ZUNism, like a symbol of the back side.
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From what I'm assuming from the profile information,
she and Marisa already know each other in some passing fashion, maybe.
Also, Ammy, I wouldn't say these new developments really retcon anything in particular, it's just that we've only really known Reimu's family and Yukari were part ofgensokyo's creation; which would mean Okina has ANOTHER "hidden" thing about her and her involvement is only being brought up now. Kind of conjecture, though, honestly, and unlike some people *coughsummerscough* I will freely admit it is only that.
cuc: That IS a drum, actually. One of those small, flat, handheld ones. it just looks like a mirror because of the perspective, and I've already seen fanartists draw it as such.
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The first thing I thought of was a drum, but it does look like a mirror because of the shiny lines on it
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Three factors: the reflection lines are too pronounced; the drum has a cylindrical shell, but it's depicted as a solid rim of pure black, making it harder to notice; there is another texture on the drum surface, which makes it weird and confusing.
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It is a drum, probably one with a shiny surface.
Also, Narumi's profile calls a golem as well, which is one kind of character I wish to see in the series. Not a big fan of her hairstyle, but nice to have a wish granted regardless!
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I read Reimu's scenario and basically the final boss' goal is
causing an incident for the sake of causing an incident
?
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I read Reimu's scenario and basically the final boss' goal is causing an incident for the sake of causing an incident
?
Final boss wants a new assistant, so she messes up the weather to see who can resolve it and be worthy of being her assistant.
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Final boss wants a new assistant, so she messes up the weather to see who can resolve it and be worthy of being her assistant.
Exceeeept... when you beat Extra she apparently says that was just a ruse.
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I read Reimu's scenario and basically the final boss' goal is causing an incident for the sake of causing an incident
?
I may be wrong, but i think she caused this incident to see how it would get resolved, to " test out " how incidents were dealed with in gensokyo.
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New glitch!
In Spell Card Practice EX-1 to EX-3, if you kill the green girl with a release before the spell card starts, the spell card doesn't even start, so you skip a spell card in Spell Card Practice.
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God of hindrance:
As a demon, Matara-jin can also be a harmful source of spiritual "hindrance" that keeps people from wisdom, i.e. the kleshas we touched on before. Black magic. The nomadic outcasts were probably going to need it?
So she's also a demon of some kind? Could this have something to do with her door having very similar signs as Byakuren's scroll from Makai?
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Opening post has been updated with game details and report! Feel free to correct where I a made mistakes. Also help with the spell card names or familiar shots or main shots is welcome. The only one I could read was Master Spark Frozen :V
Due to no spoiler mode, I haven't posted any more screenshots than necessary. Also clicking on the portraits is at own risk.
No Spoiler mode will be lifted tomorrow at the end of Comiket C92's 3rd day. I can assume by then people are here and there exposed to materials on various websites. Until then, please keep using the spoiler tag. You're all doing a super job. I am a happy Siege Engine. My thanks to you all!
Once spoilers are allowed, I will post more screenshots and details for the report.
--Helepolis
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A lot of the information you want is on the wiki. (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hidden_Star_in_Four_Seasons/Translation) (Warning: spoilers).
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Also, Ammy, I wouldn't say these new developments really retcon anything in particular, it's just that we've only really known Reimu's family and Yukari were part of gensokyo's creation; which would mean Okina has ANOTHER "hidden" thing about her and her involvement is only being brought up now. Kind of conjecture, though, honestly, and unlike some people *coughsummerscough* I will freely admit it is only that.
Yeah the more I'm reading the more I'm seeing that as Yukari is forever the Great Mystery Lady in Gensokyo, there really shouldn't be any retcon going on now that it's been revealed she and Okina are tight. Yukari has all kinds of plates spinning behind the scenes, and this is just another aspect of her largely hidden life.
Also I love our new character designs. Yes, even Junko 2.0
, as I've seen some people call her.
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Funny enough, Okina is the only one of the new full version characters who I really really like. The rest don't really stand out to me, though I don't dislike them.
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Junko 2.0
, as I've seen some people call her.
Something I like about Okina
is that she's basically Yukari 2.0, if you ask me. Like, "if ZUN made a character nowadays that served a similar role in the story as Yukari, this is what that character would be."
I think it's pretty neat.
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Agree. Really wondering where he's going to take her because there's no way we won't be seeing her a lot more in future works.
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Something I like about Okina
is that she's basically Yukari 2.0, if you ask me. Like, "if ZUN made a character nowadays that served a similar role in the story as Yukari, this is what that character would be."
I think it's pretty neat.
Okina's development is going to be really interesting, I hope. This can give rise to expanding on origin stories or Gensokyo's daily functions. It has a lot of potential.
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So she's also a demon of some kind? Could this have something to do with her door having very similar signs as Byakuren's scroll from Makai?
A rakshasa or yaksha demon
in the Buddhist sense, maybe.
Not mentioned in my last post, but more significant to HSiFS's story, is that under the umbrella of "hindrance", Matara-jin is also argued to contain a strand of origin with the tengu (brought up in Aya's story),
as "path-blocking gods" 塞の神 "Sai no Kami" or "Sae no Kami", which is what Aya's 塞符 (for many years translated "Cork Sign", now changed to "Blockade Sign" on the wiki) in MoF came from.
Also known as Dōsojin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C5%8Dsojin), they are primitive gods who keep misfortune and evil out of village borders. I'm not too keen with wikipedia saying that Dōsojin "fused" with Sai no Kami in later tellings, since primitive worship of Sai no Kami/Dōsojin must necessarily have existed far earlier than the carefully pruned creation myth in history books.
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adfadfasdfadfaaadfdav
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You'd better delete that post unless you want to take a week-long vacation...
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R.I.P. ZUN's grandmother. (1922 ~ 2017). ZUN dedicated TH16's omake text to his memories growing up with his Grandmother at Nagano. It really shows how her passing hit him hard, and how she has been a big influence over him and Touhou.
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Okina's development is going to be really interesting, I hope. This can give rise to expanding on origin stories or Gensokyo's daily functions. It has a lot of potential.
Especially if ZUN is more than happy to explore her characters even further with these options:
1. Publishing a brand new book in a similar vein to Symposium of Post Mysticism that hold any important information in second Modern Windows era games, from Double Dealing Character to Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom. Yes, that's also including some interquel games like Hopeless Masquerade and Urban Legend in Limbo.
2. A brand new chapter of Wild and Horned Hermit that explores the relationship between Kasen and Okina.
In terms of personality, her profile mention this: "She shows no mercy to those who act rudely to her, and grants blessings to those who treat her with reverence. Fearsome as an enemy and reliable as an ally, she's the classic example of a god." It is possible her personality is a hybrid between Kasen and Yukari: a jovial, easygoing, and understanding person towards her allies and those who respects her which she believes they deserve her respect based on their beliefs and actions, but towards her enemies, she's quite ruthless and vicious, especially if she is provoked. Judging by her dialog in Reimu's extra, it seems Reimu have her respect before the fight ensues. It is possible that Okina will become another mentor to Reimu (and to the lesser extent Marisa) in the future, especially when dealing with outsiders.
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You'd better delete that post unless you want to take a week-long vacation...
???
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???
This is relevant. (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8185.0.html)
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I don't think an error on trying to open the game is really a piracy-centric problem, though.
Meanwhile, the game seems really fun! Unfortunately it still feels like autumn is way better than the other seasons as long as you don't ram into enemies. But, I did a run with Spring and it was really fun to clear the screen at once and get tons of PIV. Wonder what score runs will look like for all the different seasons. It's worth noting that the PIV gain per cancelled bullet goes up drastically with season level- even if you clear the same number of bullets, it seems like you could get 10k PIV from a lv6 release or next to nothing from a lv1 release.
Also it seems that the thcrap patch already features 100% translation! I didn't read most of it but it seems to be quality as far as I looked, unlike LoLK where for a week the endings were machine translated garbage.
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I read a handful of the Thcrap translations and man. What a read!
part of me can't help but feel upset for the stage 5 bosses though? It feels like Okina treats them quite poorly, uses them as tools and, even if the whole idea of getting new servants was a lie, it's still kind of sucky she'd just casually toss them away for others.
... Oh god, it's like DDC's plot all over again!
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I actually got the same impression but for entirely opposite reasons. Their profile says they were originally humans, but due to Okina's influence they're beginning to lose their humanity. It seemed to me less that Okina's throwing them away and more that she really can't afford to keep them around without it being dangerous to them.
Of course, Okina didn't care about replacing them in the first place and was perfectly happy continuing to use them. So like I said, same impression but for opposite reasons.
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I actually got the same impression but for entirely opposite reasons. Their profile says they were originally humans, but due to Okina's influence they're beginning to lose their humanity. It seemed to me less that Okina's throwing them away and more that she really can't afford to keep them around without it being dangerous to them.
Of course, Okina didn't care about replacing them in the first place and was perfectly happy continuing to use them. So like I said, same impression but for opposite reasons.
Yeah, it's hard to tell for sure if her initial idea of replacing them would be out of pity/mercy, or simply because they've outlived their usefulness.
Sucks that despite being two characters for the price of one, Okina more or less takes all of the spotlight for herself and manages to make her character feel like 5 while their characters feel like 0.5. All things said, that's fitting for 'back dancers' who aren't usually noticed.
I hope that in some future works they get a bit more of their individuality (even as a duo) shown!
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I don't think an error on trying to open the game is really a piracy-centric problem, though.
Yeah, from what I can tell, seems to be the usual "forgot to install files from the DirectX Redistributable Package" kind of deal.
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I am only one who though this when meeting the 4th boss?
It is Rika in disguise: https://tsalop.deviantart.com/art/Divine-tanker-girl-Rika-698516539
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Excluding endings, all other form of spoilers or discussion is okay!
Do not forget that we also have Touhou Addict Recovery Center (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/board,1.0.html) for your discussion of Touhou.
Have a nice day!
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Meanwhile, the game seems really fun! Unfortunately it still feels like autumn is way better than the other seasons as long as you don't ram into enemies.
RIP me, that is literally the reason why autumn is my worst season. As a non-scorer Spring was definitely the easiest to use for survivability :P
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so it seems like this oversight from the demo is still in the game. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WihaRCjRNNE)
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so it seems like this oversight from the demo is still in the game. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WihaRCjRNNE)
Hah. That IS funny- but the first phase is the pathetically easy phase anyway.
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Interesting thing:
ZUN forgot to lock the resources in spell practice so you may get the certain score and luckily get the life and then miss and then you can get bombs!Amazing!
Video on Bilibili (Chinese) (https://www.bilibili.com/video/av13279318/)
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so it seems like this oversight from the demo is still in the game. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WihaRCjRNNE)
Interesting thing: ZUN forgot to lock the resources in spell practice so you may get the certain score and luckily get the life and then miss and then you can get bombs!Amazing!
Video on Bilibili (Chinese) (https://www.bilibili.com/video/av13279318/)
Nice. Always fun to see silly bugs and oversights like these.
Speaking of which, did this Winter DPS bug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CYtlcfOxwM) get fixed or no?
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Did some really scrubby damage testing versus Stage 4 boss' first spellcard, which I can dodge with fairly minimal interference from bullets. The timer is 30 seconds, time listed is what's on the clock at clear time. This is with Summer in positions where no summer bullets hit the boss.
Reimu: 13.2 seconds (aka, she took about 17 seconds to clear the card)
Aya: 12.5 seconds (17.5 clear)
Marisa: 15 seconds (15 clear)
Cirno varies due to spread shot.
9 seconds, 21 clear (max distance)
12 seconds, 18 clear (mid distance that you're most likely to be at in general situations)
14.5 seconds, 15.5 clear (a couple character lengths away)
16 seconds, 14 clear (shotgun tier, some summer bullets hitting admittedly)
For non-Cirno shots, winter lets you clear about 2 seconds faster, Spring is 1.5 seconds faster, and autumn is inbetween those two if you move to the side a bit for Aya or Reimu (marisa would lose laser hits to do this). Keep in mind spell practice mode is lv3 season, not max. Still, it seems that the damage difference isn't significant between seasons unless you're at max level- granted, they have much different areas of hitting, and summer is... yeah.
I speculate that Reimu with ONLY her homing shots would take about 35 seconds to clear the card, meaning that pretty close (or exactly?) half of her damage is homing. Spring deals a negligible amount of homing damage by itself, and only brings speculated clear time down to like 32- of course, this is only lv3 spring, though.
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Very useful information. I like Spring for stages, primarily, and for the massive clearance you from activating it. I don't count on it for dealing with bosses. Guess I'll be exploring other seasons!
Also, even though I find the music in this one not as catchy, the exception there would be Okina's theme, which I've been whistling and humming for the past couple days now.
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Yeah, Spring is fun and those big clears are really satisfying, but on bosses it quickly becomes a Summer without the low season cost, so it's not quite so good for survival. Winter might have potential for dropping ontop of bosses at the least, but I dunno about it yet... might be good. Summer seems good for lots of small pops to survive, although I've died a bunch trying to treat it like a bomb- you can't keep moving or you'll just ram the bullet two inches away.
Autumn is like the strong points of all three seasons combined. You get summer's shield, it lasts a long time like Winter, it follows you so you can run about without dying like Spring, and ontop of that the duration is pretty decent even at lv1 to clear out bullets and earn breathing room... and get enough season items back to cast it again and again. Of course, then you tackle a big fairy and kill yourself, so the main thing is learning your limits.
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Tfw ZUN gives a new character the same name as a PC-98 and all of your hope that ZUN cares about PC-98 is destroyed...
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Tfw ZUN gives a new character the same name as a PC-98 and all of your hope that ZUN cares about PC-98 is destroyed...
They are not the same. One is called マイ and the other is called 丁礼田 舞
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As an aside, (most people might already know this), the sages were mentioned as early as Perfect Memento in the Sixth Sense, where Akyu on several occasions remarks it's thanks to them (and more specifically, their creating of the barrier) that Gensokyo is the paradise it is, today. For the longest time, despite sages being plural, the only confirmed one was Yukari (implied in PMiSS, confirmed in Reimu & Yukari's dialogue with Yuugi in SA. "Sages" was plural there, too).
Many years later, (WAHH spoilers) Kasen was finally confirmed to be one in a recent Wild and Horned Hermit chapter while she was talking with Yukari (although it was indirectly shown before that in Urban Legend in Limbo when Kasen went through the Hakurei barrier "in the name of the sage". Back then Refuge in Audacity took place and no one really noticed). By the present day, however, Kasen is no longer directly working with Yukari (which is something Yukari seems genuinely sad about).
So Okina being a sage who's duty is to protect Gensokyo isn't really a retcon at all. Just a really really reeeeeeaaaally freakishly long call-back.
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So Okina being a sage who's duty is to protect Gensokyo isn't really a retcon at all. Just a really really reeeeeeaaaally freakishly long call-back.
I'm surprised people even considered the retcon, as it was pretty much confirmed explicity in ULiL and WaHH that there were multiple sages and since it was a topic that have been brought a lot recently, it feels kinda expected that we finally see another sage.
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That's nothing. The real shock is that all three sages dress similarly, with a "tabard" from ceremonial Chinese robes over a frilly (hence purely Western) skirt.
Child servants being treated badly
Probably a continuation of the "post-Bubble corporate life sucks" theme, which is front and center in LoLK, and features in Kyouko's interview in Alternative Facts. At least that's what Japanese players felt. They were rather dismayed at the suggestion that even in Gensokyo you have to do a laborious job interview with a demanding boss.
And if you beat HSiFS on Lunatic, you get Okina commend you worthy of being her underling in the final "thanks for playing" message
.
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I really like the fact
that during the stage 5 bossfight the opponent you face in the first two spellcards depends on whoever you beat down first during the preceding nonspells
and that Okina literally takes away all your options in her final spell and uses them against you
.
The music, visuals and danmaku design in this game are absolutely amazing, I'm personally particularly mesmerized by stages 5-6.
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Tengukami has given permission to non-ending spoilers :)
I really like the fact that during the stage 5 bossfight the opponent you face in the first two spellcards depends whoever you beat down first during the preceding nonspells
And the 3rd card "Behind Festival" is a combination of the two servants' individual 2nd cards.
However, at least Satano does not end the game when shot down in spell practice mode. The mode is quite buggy.
I don't think an error on trying to open the game is really a piracy-centric problem, though.
Players with keen eyes should have noticed - error message on DirectX DLLs does not necessarily have to do with piracy, since you can get this by directly copying game files from the disc without running the installer, bypassing your normal DirectX update.
OTOH, I recall in the last thread somebody mentioned "UTF-8" text files in the Reitaisai demo. Have you seen such files in the final game? *wink* *wink*
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That's nothing. The real shock is that all three sages dress similarly, with a "tabard" from ceremonial Chinese robes over a frilly (hence purely Western) skirt.
Yea, at first I thought that was just a coincidence with Kasen, but now with Okino I'm starting to think that all the sages dress like that. Something to look out for in future characters, I suppose, although I guess maybe even ZUN considers the matter public knowledge now since he didn't bother keeping Okino's status as a sage secret at all, what with it being flat out stated in her profile.
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Just a little precaution for those who haven't played and/or seen the game yet ;)
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So, have we figured out what is the "Jade Scepter of the Skies"?
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And the 3rd card "Behind Festival" is a combination of the two servants' individual 2nd cards.
Cool too that if you beat one of them during Behind Festival with the bug, their respective danmaku stops showing (If you beat Mai the stars stop falling down for example). It's cute to see that their entities have been programmed to each have their 'contribution' in the spellcard, as opposed to them just being there and the bullets coming out of nowhere.
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So, have we figured out what is the "Jade Scepter of the Skies"?
It's never once stated in game, but we already inferred it in the last thread. It's the handle of the Big Dipper, pointing at a different direction for each season. It's more accurately the "Jade Ladle Handle in the Sky".
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Regarding the endings:
So, all endings are bad endings?
In Marisas case the 1CC ending and continue ending are basically the same with the 1CC one being more elaborate. No wonder Zun made the extra easier this time around when it is basically required to get the story. I Haven't had the chance to play through the game with the others, which I will do today, but I expect something similar.
Also, Marisa was unaware that she run away? What? How does that happen? :V
I don't really like this. It kinda feels like the way as in other older games, where the developers intended you to lose even if you win. Congratulations, you beat the final boss: You lose. In LoLK it was almost impossible to get the good ending as a no miss run was required (if you don't take drugs that is). It still bugs me but I get it, as the PDM wouldn't have any purpose otherwise. But now you can't "win" as things are only settled in the extra. Might be me being narrow-minded but I prefer the extra to be an addition to the story. Something "extra" to reveal additional information. Not an integral part of the story.
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The players have a door on their back just like the first 4 bosses (as a side note, your season options are meant to represent that door). That door gives them extra power, lets them go to Okina's place, and (most importantly here) it can be used to quickly teleport away a la Yukari's gaps. Since Okina controls these doors, she's actually the one who teleports the player away at the end of stage 6. So they didn't really run away. In extra, the hero brings a door that leads to nowhere instead, and since the door doesn't have an "other side" Okina can't teleport them away.
This time, Extra really is a stage 7- the true final boss, a continuation of the main story. In that sense, the endings aren't meant to resolve anything, they're meant to lead directly into the next stage. Personally I think it's really cool, but not everyone would like that I guess.
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I think tying your enjoyment of a clear to how much the game pats you on the back is missing the point of clearing at all. You didn't actually lose just because the game's story tells you that your character failed. LoLK doesn't even call the no-miss ending the "good" ending.
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Probably a continuation of the "post-Bubble corporate life sucks" theme, which is front and center in LoLK, and features in Kyouko's interview in Alternative Facts. At least that's what Japanese players felt. They were rather dismayed at the suggestion that even in Gensokyo you have to do a laborious job interview with a demanding boss.
And if you beat HSiFS on Lunatic, you get Okina commend you worthy of being her underling in the final "thanks for playing" message
.
So, clearly I need to read the written works more. If I had been doing so, the idea of retconning would have never occurred to me.
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It's never once stated in game, but we already inferred it in the last thread. It's the handle of the Big Dipper, pointing at a different direction for each season. It's more accurately the "Jade Ladle Handle in the Sky".
Good point.
Also, clarifying, in Cirno's extra stage, it's Eternity who made her collect the Doyou season, right? Does this mean Eternity is actually smarter than she lets on?
Or it's just the fact that she's (formerly) an enemy god if Matara somehow caused Cirno, who went through her backdoor, somehow collected the proper season to fight Matara?
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Either Eternity's actually way smarter than what we initially thought or quite literally the planets aligned and Cirno hit a lottery's worth of luck by re-entering Okina's realm at the exact moment she's in the Doyou state, thus giving her the 5th season that all of the other player characters worked so hard to come up with.
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The players have a door on their back just like the first 4 bosses (as a side note, your season options are meant to represent that door). That door gives them extra power, lets them go to Okina's place, and (most importantly here) it can be used to quickly teleport away a la Yukari's gaps. Since Okina controls these doors, she's actually the one who teleports the player away at the end of stage 6. So they didn't really run away. In extra, the hero brings a door that leads to nowhere instead, and since the door doesn't have an "other side" Okina can't teleport them away.
I get the first point. Its the reasons why our heroines had no chance of winning on their first run. The dialogue doesn't make any sense to me though. Okina stating that Marisa ran away in the final test when she was sending her away. Marisa says that she just vanished but gives in to Okinas explanation that she indeed did run away. Of course its a minor point but its weird how the dialogue is set up.Edit: Nevermind. I played through the other character stories and I got my answers.
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So, clearly I need to read the written works more. If I had been doing so, the idea of retconning would have never occurred to me.
The sages were brought up in-game in Subterranean Animism, but it was years ago in an off-hand "blink and you'll miss it moment" only on Reimu-Yukari's route (which is one route out of a whopping six) at their conversation with Yuugi (Yukari is annoyed at the denizons of the underground apparently breaking the deal, making Yuugi recall that deal was the one the sages made with them long ago).
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Did someone in this topic say, no one ever uses summer? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNbq-qNclB0)
It's arguably the best for survival. Second best if you know how to utilize autumn to the maximum, but I suck at using autumn, so...
Winter is nerfed hard sadly. It's only good for no release runs. Spring I don't even know what it's good for.
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Yep, noticed that too. While it does nothing for your damage, the ability to minibomb multiple times is pretty useful. Especially as you get your used level back most of the time. Additonally it's a lot less risky than autumn, as you don't tend run into enemies. Well, I do at least. :V
Winter can be pretty strong if you use the bug letting all levels shoot instead of just one. Though I don't know what was intended, having only one or all lasers shoot. Having only one laser shoot on level 6 feels like the weakest of all suboptions. All lasers activated on level 6 melt about everything and feels pretty OP. But then again, Autumn and Summer feel quite OP too.
Spring feels like the most reasonable suboption. Its useful but can't really be abused. It's like the way it meant to be and right on spot regarding balance. Now if summer and autumn weren't as great as they are, you would actually have a reason to use spring.
How do you rate Okinas last spells in terms of difficulty? I really struggle with autumn. The other options are pretty tame compared to it and while I have to deathbomb here and there I don't lose near as many lives as in autumn.
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While it does nothing for your damage
excuse me
summer release deals a CRAPTON. like, more than current winter. probably highest out of the four. the little sub-options seem to deal slightly more than in the demo too, i've noticed.
final card? winter has the easiest, autumn isn't terribly bad either but it's pretty hard to get used to. summer is annoyingly painful. i think spring is the hardest of the four.
by the way, all lasers firing at once for winter is a bug. it's not meant to do that, only one is meant to fire at a time. each level has a stronger laser than the previous.
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What's the status quo with the Winter lasers? Do they work properly now (one laser at a time), or do lasers stack until you stop shooting?
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What's the status quo with the Winter lasers? Do they work properly now (one laser at a time), or do lasers stack until you stop shooting?
they stack until you stop shooting. this is forced whenever you gain a new laser option, or when dialogue appears.
i also cleared extra, pretty easy, not proud of it though. i have a nice meme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97EPfJdXVzA)
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excuse me
summer release deals a CRAPTON. like, more than current winter. probably highest out of the four. the little sub-options seem to deal slightly more than in the demo too, i've noticed.
I didn't meant the direct release on the boss. That is broken as hell. I mean the spread damage itself is near useless in bossfights as those little shards spread all over the place and do minimal damage.
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Yeah summer's the weakest option in terms of shot damage for sure. All the others are pretty good to where I'd exclusively worry about the release and not the shot.
I haven't been able to play a lot because work, does summer even do anything noticable in stages if you're playing like, aya or marisa and have low range?
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I've only played the Lunatic versions of Okina's finals, but my difficulty order would be: Spring > Summer >>> Fall ~= Winter. Granted, if you're not as good with micrododging and/or managing the aimed bullets while going through the arrowheads, then Fall might be a tier above Winter, but not by too much imo.
Speaking of which, Okina is quickly becoming one of my favorite final boss fights in the series. I feel like ZUN made an effort to make her fight completely the opposite style of Junko's - whereas Junko didn't bother with flashy attacks and tried to just straight-up kill you, Okina wants to demonstrate her godly powers by being as flashy as possible, while still killing you over and over lol. And I think she's much better off for it. Her patterns have so many cool ideas and designs, and none of them are really that trivial, even if their difficulty can vary noticeably, meaning you have to constantly remain on your toes. This essentially makes her fight feel much more engaging from a gameplay perspective compared to Junko's. Then there's the general atmosphere of it all, with you traveling through back doors into each of the seasons in sequence, and the music - dear god the music. I can't get enough of this boss fight, I tell ya. Anyone else feel the same way?
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^
I wholeheartedly agree. ZUN's absolutely nailed the concept of her stage 6 iteration and executed it almost perfectly. The cycle through the seasons throughout her battle combined with her theme literally sends chills all over me, I'm not joking. Then there's her final spell based on the player's sub-season, which adds even more uniqueness to her already unique battle. Only thing that's kinda lacking is that her second throughout the fifth nonspells do appear to be somewhat generic, but are compensated with said concept that ZUN implemented. On top of that, the visual presentation of HSiFS is absolutely top notch, and I can hardly stop listening to the themes from stage 4 to EX since the full release came out.
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Yo, there's already a video with maxed-out score. Yes, it uses that character with that season.
Part one: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31753276
Part two: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31753527
Better quality on yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdEvj5RFdFI&hd=1
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I don't know how you all feel about mods, but if you find the season items too transparent for your liking, someone made a mod (http://www.mediafire.com/file/ppw15oc884z0w3p/Touhou+16-+Season+Item+Transparency+Mod+%28Namu%29.zip) that makes them less transparent.
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Speaking of which, Okina is quickly becoming one of my favorite final boss fights in the series. I feel like ZUN made an effort to make her fight completely the opposite style of Junko's - whereas Junko didn't bother with flashy attacks and tried to just straight-up kill you, Okina wants to demonstrate her godly powers by being as flashy as possible, while still killing you over and over lol. And I think she's much better off for it. Her patterns have so many cool ideas and designs, and none of them are really that trivial, even if their difficulty can vary noticeably, meaning you have to constantly remain on your toes. This essentially makes her fight feel much more engaging from a gameplay perspective compared to Junko's. Then there's the general atmosphere of it all, with you traveling through back doors into each of the seasons in sequence, and the music - dear god the music. I can't get enough of this boss fight, I tell ya. Anyone else feel the same way?
I have pretty mixed feelings about this. Okina's entire fight feels more like a piece of art than a video game, which isn't necessarily a good thing. I feel like ZUN was focused a lot on the overall atmosphere than the individual patterns. Like, her nons are awesome the first time I saw them just because of the coolness of flying between the previous stages. But after the initial "wow" value, I find them to be some of the blandest in the series... I'm not sure if I like this or not. Junko's nons were awful admittedly but her spells were all pretty fun to dodge, where Okina's stuff is more fun to look at.
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I just wanted to throw my thoughts about HSiFS somewhere in this topic.
I think this game is better than LoLK in some aspects. The music seems more atmospheric (especially Okina's themes along with 6th stage theme and extra stage theme - I think they're amazing), I've gotten more into the game's plot and characters. I like the new sub season mechanic too, although it can be abused (summer, for example). The game has become slightly easier, which (for me) is a better thing. LoLK was too difficult.
The idea of placing the true final boss in the extra stage isn't bad, but despite that I'd prefer that extra told a new, related to the main plot story like in the previous games. In terms of drawings, I especially like Reimu's portraits. ZUN's skills certainly improved.
I'd say that ZUN didn't fail at making the game fun. HSiFS doesn't have any truly troubling game mechanics, thanks to which it became much simpler. I still wouldn't recommend it for beginners, though. We've got better candidates.
And something slightly off topic...
I doubt Okina will make an appearance in Antinomy of Common Flowers, as, after all, it's 15.5 and not 16.5, but if she will appear in a fighter someday I bet her story will be intriguing. She reminds me slightly of Yuuka and Yukari, which should make some interesting dialogues.
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I don't know how you all feel about mods, but if you find the season items too transparent for your liking, someone made a mod (http://www.mediafire.com/file/ppw15oc884z0w3p/Touhou+16-+Season+Item+Transparency+Mod+%28Namu%29.zip) that makes them less transparent.
Just wanted to clarify: this mod actually enables you to adjust the transparency of the season bullets from 0% to 90%. To my knowledge this only works with thcrap, but it's worth it. 50% transparency is a lot less distracting, and having switched from Aya/Spring to Aya/Summer (and wow what a difference going with summer makes, for dealing with tight spots that used to be a choice between clipdeath or deathbombing), things have markedly improved.
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What's the reason for Matara to chase the protagonists out after stage 6 ?
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Yo, there's already a video with maxed-out score. Yes, it uses that character with that season.
Part one: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31753276
Part two: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31753527
Better quality on yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdEvj5RFdFI&hd=1
Aya is truly living up to her name as being fastest Tengu reporter. I lost track of her a lot of times during the run. Very amusing and interesting at the same time.
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After listening a bit more carefully, I think the melody from Satono and Mai's theme is actually a variation on the melody from the stage 1 theme despite sounding completely different. Maybe that's why I found it instantly catchy. God knows how many times I listened to the stage 1 theme while resetting in the demo. Now I'm wondering how many other musical connections there are in this game.
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May I say that this game's plot is quite possibly the most touhou-like touhou game plot in recent years ? Like, the incident is about the abnormal weather and some rampant fairies ... the big bad's motives is a freaking
job interview and some showing off
. So yeah, you may turn off that "touhou is getting darker and edgier" alarm, gentlemen ... our silly motives are back :V ... for now ...
I doubt Okina will make an appearance in Antinomy of Common Flowers, as, after all, it's 15.5 and not 16.5, but if she will appear in a fighter someday I bet her story will be intriguing. She reminds me slightly of Yuuka and Yukari, which should make some interesting dialogues.
It would be pretty swell - but really, really, REALLY unlikely - if 15.5 won't be 15.5 but instead be 16.5, and some of the new characters get shoved in the game . EXTREMELY unlikely, but that'd be pretty cool and, hey, one can dream. If there's something new characters need, it's interaction, and the fighters managed to fulfill that pretty well. Otherwise, an Aya book could possibly manage that as well.
Regarding the new characters, personally I'm looking forward to the next SCoOW's interview section (if it's gonna be about HSiFS) and VFiS since its nature and lifeforce themes seems to be a pretty good fit with what happens in the incident this time. I'd be cool if Eternity somehow managed to sweep the rug from under Clownpiece, although pretty unlikely, haha.
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Y'know, after thinking a bit back on the game I've come to a pretty funny conclusion: If Reimu's accepted Eternity's help at stage 1, she'd've potentially gotten in the Door World right away, and the game would've end up having basically 3 stages.
That being said, I wonder if Nemuno was affected by Okina's door-thing? Sure the Youkai mountain was hit by it, but Nemuno seemed pretty calm despite everyone's going berserk, she only fought the protagonists because they were invading her territory.
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Yo, there's already a video with maxed-out score. Yes, it uses that character with that season.
Part one: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31753276
Part two: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31753527
Better quality on yt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdEvj5RFdFI&hd=1
I will never tire of watching TAS runs.
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May I say that this game's plot is quite possibly the most touhou-like touhou game plot in recent years ?
Let's see, TD was about spirits appearing everywhere and everyone thinking it had to do with a ghost outbreak, in the end it was just an old saint waking up which isn't that dark.
DDC was about a youkai and tsukumogami rebellion to overthrow society which ultimately failed, it isn't dark but it's big.
LoLK was about the lunarians invading gensoko and ending life as we know there just because someone who is very mad wants revenge. Everyone suspected it would be edgy, it sorta was and also big.
So yeah, HSiFS felt more old Touhou like, with incidents more tied to nature and annoyances, this game kinda reminded me of PCB and PoFV.
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PCB distinguishes itself, for me, for having the most convoluted batshit explanation story of any of the other games. Even red mists and false moons are easier to get your head around. I love that HSiFS does return to Touhou's essence, in a way, of having a lighter and relatively more straightforward explanation story than the more recent games (although religious conflict and revolution are fine topics, too.)
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Winter gets no love ;_;
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I love winter tho
because I'm a Marisa player lol
Thoughts on how difficult the game is? Feels like it's easier than DDC due to the release mechanics.
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HSiFS boss rush for ver 1.00a, demonstration (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFijfPNky4E)
have fun
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I love winter tho
because I'm a Marisa player lol
Thoughts on how difficult the game is? Feels like it's easier than DDC due to the release mechanics.
Oh nice, same~
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Yesterday I couldn't even finish the extra and today I finish it with 6 lives remaining. My ability to play touhou is so damn incosistent. :V
Well, I got it with Marisa first so I have 3 others to finish it again. Some Spellcards were pretty hard due to me having difficulty keeping Okina in my line of fire. Should be easier with Reimu and her homing petals.
The extra shows me again how I keep struggeling with patterns in which projectiles keep coming from both sides or were I dodge bullets coming from behind.
Now I gotta calm down again. Getting that far got my heart rate up and my hands shaking.
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Dat "but I refuse" line from Marisa
It only took a few decades but ZUN finally found a way to shove his favorite line from JJBA in touhou lol
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HSiFS boss rush for ver 1.00a, demonstration (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFijfPNky4E)
have fun
I have been waiting this... Thanks a lot.
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It may be too soon to tell... But, is it me, or are the new characters just not resonating with anyone?
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I really don't get that impression. Seems to me people have plenty of things to say about Okina, for example, and are excited about the implications she brings.
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It may be too soon to tell... But, is it me, or are the new characters just not resonating with anyone?
I kinda feel that way. I was kinda expecting to be surprised, but I don't feel very invested in any of them. Like, I expected something different because of the comment in the last thread that something would be off with the boss(es), but then all of a sudden it turns out to be a mistranslation/misinterpretation mentioned right after the game came out and I feel...disappointed I guess? ???
Maybe it's because what the final boss ended up being was on the mark, but I don't really feel wowed by anything in this game. Narumi is cute though.
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I'm actually really impressed by the new characters since I think they have the most story potential out of all the recent games so far. Okina's connection to the story is pretty obvious, what with her being a youkai sage. I'd be surprised if Larva didn't appear in the fairies manga, and Naruko can be added to Marisa and Alice to make a "Forest of Magic magicians" group, so something interesting could occur there. I'd say even Nemuno adds something to the mountain youkai society previously dominated by kappa and tengu (although I don't really expect much to come from it) and Aunn can easily appear at any shrine scene and it wouldn't be weird.
Compare that to the Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom characters, where most of the characters get shuttled back off to non-Gensokyo worlds and we never see them again. In particular I think Junko's the only final boss where the girls didn't sit down and have tea with her after everything was over, so she feels really distant compared to the other game bosses. And I don't think the Double Dealing Character characters have had manga appearances, either, except for I think Shinmyoumaru in Forbidden Scrollery (and I can't even remember what she was there for).
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While I like the storyline and character-relationship connections of most of them (not just Okina. Pretty much all of them besides the backup dancers are connected to someone in some way) and am excited for the direction the overall Touhou storyline seems to be going in, the character designs of the individual characters themselves aren't particularly intriguing to me. But then, that goes for most Touhou characters for me, really. I do find Narumi appealing for some reason though even if her character design seems kinda plain. Maybe it's just the pose and hairstyle *shrug*
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After playing this game a bit more, I'm finding I really like playing as Cirno/Summer. Being able to breeze through stages, and constantly being able to shotgun spam level 5s and 6s on bosses is extremely useful. I'm not getting a low score either.
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Marisa actually being good is probably my favorite thing about HSiFS. I really hope she keeps those awesome high-power lasers in future games.
1CC'd HSiFS Normal and Extra. Fall is overpowered but fun. Extra took a while due to silly deaths.
The music reminds me of his recent music CDs. The main melodies are as good as always, but imo the instruments aren't mixed well and blend together too much. This causes the tracks to occasionally feel like ambient chords and noise.
Characters are cool, looking forward to seeing them in future works.
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The music reminds me of his recent music CDs. The main melodies are as good as always, but imo the instruments aren't mixed well and blend together too much. This causes the tracks to occasionally feel like ambient chords and noise.
I absolutely love tracks like The Concealed Four Seasons, though I'm not a big fan of the instrumentation. But this is why I'm really looking forward to when music circles get their hands on these songs. We're gonna see some goooood arranges, I think~
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Marisa actually being good is probably my favorite thing about HSiFS. I really hope she keeps those awesome high-power lasers in future games.
She's good but there's a pretty obvious flaw in her shot. You know how all her lasers bunch together when focused? Well, her two outer lasers are slightly tilted, and that tilt is enough to make one or both of them unable to hit the boss at a distance. Meaning, you'll need to go up closer in order to hit with all four at once.
It's annoying and I wish something was done about this. I don't like only being able to hit things with 2-3 lasers from down below!
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She's good but there's a pretty obvious flaw in her shot. You know how all her lasers bunch together when focused? Well, her two outer lasers are slightly tilted, and that tilt is enough to make one or both of them unable to hit the boss at a distance. Meaning, you'll need to go up closer in order to hit with all four at once.
It's annoying and I wish something was done about this. I don't like only being able to hit things with 2-3 lasers from down below!
Huh, I never noticed that. Good to know, ty.
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Huh, the Marisa laser thing is.. actually true. At least the final boss' fat hitbox as usual gives you full power all the time. I did damage test, and... with all four lasers hitting, the power is pretty facemelting. Time for damage test #2. I realized if I pop summer I can consistently clear with zero movement without impacting damage at all, making the times 100% consistent and reliable; the kind of thing I'd put in a damage comparison thread. Still done on Stage 4 boss first card.
Marisa hitting with X lasers (Lower times are better aka kills card faster; I'm now using the numbers it displays at the end when you clear the card)
4: 13.36 to clear
3: 14.75
2: 15.53 (At bottom of the screen; the two outer lasers seem to partially hit)
2: 16.63 (At spawning point in spell practice; this is higher up, so why?? This is also the result for 2 laser unfocused; they're truly missing at this range when focused.)
If I move up/down slightly it goes between the two different numbers for 2. I can't tell you what's going on; the laser hitboxes seem to be weird. Use the laser color to tell if you're hitting your outer lasers properly or not; they will darken significantly when they're hitting. Once you get within roughly half a screen distance they -do- reliably hit for full damage; otherwise go for 3 lasers opposed to trying to fully center yourself.
Reimu:17.50 (no difference when unfocused)
Aya:18.33 (focus)
Aya:18.58 (unfocus 3/5 streams hitting)
Aya:14.73 (unfocus shotgun)
Cirno w/X icicles out of 12 (All icicles do identical damage- unfocus does not affect their damage either)
2: 22.18
4: 18.86
6: 15.53
9: 14.21
12: Possible on the final boss, and even realistic to use in actual play on a few of her attacks. Slightly weaker than 4 laser Marisa, but less easy to use.
You can do 12 on the extra boss too, but there's notably less safespace before death hugs occur. At high level season you should be side-shotting her instead for the back options.
2 option icicles are inside the base shot at max power, making it the minimum- I blast some summer releases at the start to minimize damage interference on shotguns. 9 was slightly messy to attempt- I did a ton of retries to make this mostly accurate, move away slightly when I have to release for survival to avoid hitting with it, etc, and a teeny bit of summer bullets were hitting.
Marisa with 4 lasers is LITERALLY about 37% stronger than Aya and 31% stronger than Reimu, which is actually pretty big. She's still a good chunk stronger without, but the 2 laser sweetspot is totally weird. As a curiosity- with Lv3 Winter the 4 laser cleartime goes to 12.96, which is only .4 seconds faster (Since lv6 winter exists though, as well as the thing where you fire all lasers upon gaining options 'til they vanish, well...) Cirno is painful when you have to sit at max distance but she's perfectly good at any other ranges (certainly better than MoF ReimuC), ontop of her great bomb (both for life scoring and survival) and good range she's a really solid shot... but there'll be those attacks where your damage is just gonna suck eggs and there's not a lot to do about it. She's amazing in Extra, though, and she can side shotgun with the extra season and do crazy damage.
Meanwhile Aya is the scoring utility shot. She does have some extra speed (making her slightly better with the crazy fall season!) and piercing but, man is she weak considering she's got no range. Piercing helps keep her from lagging behind too hard with stuff like the circles of ying-yangs that spawn mid-screen in a lot of stages and she can PoC slightly easier, but it doesn't -really- do much. At least she's more relevant for non-scoring play than DDC's SakuyaB.
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It may be too soon to tell... But, is it me, or are the new characters just not resonating with anyone?
Mai is my waifu. :*
That's all you need to know.
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Mai is my waifu. :*
That's all you need to know.
Good taste.
By the way, for those who are not yet informed, zizi, a Chinese player, is the first to do a lunatic perfect (LNNN). (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/345307449693044747/349125634917924864/-782d19704b74acad.png)
Surprised noone noticed...
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I always figured the Marisa laser thing was on purpose. I also figured "Naruko" was on purpose, as a minor joke. The Mai Spell Practice bugs probably exist because they depend on Satono's existence somehow. Remember that in Spell Practice, you're always defeating the boss. Likely, As far as I know, no other boss in the Windows games works like this (two distinct bosses, with bars that are linked to each other, fought at once), so I'm perfectly willing to give ZUN some slack here. Likely, it'll be fixed in an update, he usually fixes stuff like that.
Now:
The Lenen "community" is completely fucked, that is not up for debate. They're obsessive and there are far too many of them. Where do they keep coming from? That aside, pretty much everyone in the Touhou community was like Summers ten years ago, and I was there to see it for myself.
The game has overt Lenen jabs. I find it extremely difficult to believe that ZUN simply ignores the few high-profile Touhou-like fangames (as opposed to unassociated non-STGs that just happen to use Touhou characters), and I get the feeling he appreciates these games more than the unassociated kind (especially when they're being released for free or for print price instead of trying to gain some big profit). I have no idea why anyone would even hypothetically assign "some gaijin" (Drake) credit for an idea that has nothing to do with what we see in this game (SoD).
There are two ideas that are clearly taken from Lenen, behaving in very similar or near identical ways. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, too.
-The entire Release system is basically Flash Bombs, and to my knowledge no game in the STG sphere was doing anything like Flash Bombs before Mugenri and Tasouken appeared on the scene. Obviously, there are changes to make them unique, and they likely won't appear outside of this game (because ZUN doesn't really keep game systems around while JynX largely iterates). You even charge them with grazing! Grazing doesn't even do anything in this game except charge the releases. Even HellSinker doesn't have a Flash Bomb-type weapon anywhere as far as I know, and that game has just about everything you'd ever want in STG. The actual Releases themselves are modified Maiden Pits (admittedly, a small circle around your character is an obvious choice for a mechanic like this), and the Summer release is basically a stockable, slightly larger Maiden Pit. He even put in a final attack gimmick involving Releases (albeit in reverse), just like how Tasouken requires you to use Flash Bombs for the Tasouken card. This is significant because none of the other Touhou games do final boss/attack game system gimmicks except for Eiyashou night advancing (a huge stretch at best), and no other Touhou game does any other game system gimmick at all except Yoshika creating and eating spirits (which is a really bizarre idea and execution, and does not happen anywhere else in the game). Um, and I think Nue does something with the UFOs? I don't remember. Junko has different dialogue if you play Legacy or never retry. Look, I'm clearly grasping at straws here.
-Black Snowman works exactly like Kurohebi's Mugenri kuro bullets, and I'd be completely unsurprised if "kuro_bullet" appears in the code somewhere. I can't think of a single game that would even want to pull a trick like that, and I get the feeling ZUN toned it down because he felt the idea itself just went too far. It's even worse in Teneisenki, where Kurohebi becomes harder than a number of later bosses because reversing the effect is a hundred times more difficult.
I couldn't care less about "plot" crap. Tenkuushou plays out basically 0% like Mugenri, not sure where people are getting that idea. Matara did not impersonate anyone, nor did she suck anyone into a weird alternate dimension to play a silly game. The only similarity is in the "employment" bit, and Tsurubami deceived people into thinking it'd be a real prize, while Matara is using the employment bit itself as the real deceit. It'd also be exceptionally dumb to think that Matara is supposed to be a Suzumi reference, when it's much more so a reference to the "normal version" PC-98 games all featuring a character as the stage boss of two stages (because none of the other Windows games do that). By the way, where's (Windows) Yuka in Tenkuushou? Master of four seasons and all that? Seems weird to have Aya and Cirno but no Yuka. I guess this was covered months ago, but I never really played or followed the trial (because endless hype is boring). I guess ZUN wanted to avoid people getting the impression that Yuka might be in with the sages? But really, this glaring omission just leaves me with more questions...
You're not just asking me to believe that ZUN ignored the last four years of history and a number of high profile (by doujin standards) titles. You're also asking me to believe that ZUN ended up at multiple conclusions that a very recent Touhou-like game ended up at, conclusions that basically no other game was doing. Seriously, the only other Touhou-like game with a mechanic like that is Suishouguu, released just a few years ago, and it doesn't work like Flash Bombs/Releases at all.
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I don't really understand why anyone would be "underwhelmed" by this game outside of difficulty. It sounds to me like those people have no idea what they wanted. Reused boss? I get the feeling the PC-98 fetishists (of which there are too many) are saying that. Creepy mountain hermit? A koma inu??? A jizo turned magic-user, never mind her actually powerful ability, is just bizarre, even if she seems "plain". Crazy back dancers!!!! And then there's god-emperor Matara-jin on her throne, with her Smaug-ness. (I am MATARA! I kill when I wish!) Nearly all the characters are so totally fucked, only poor little Eternity Larva makes any "sense". Reading up on their unique situation tells me this is some "weird" take on a Kishinjou-type event. Then you have the doors, and... yeah. The soundtrack is so very different from even Kanjuuden somehow. ZUN said he wanted a curveball while also returning to his roots, and he actually completely delivered on both accounts, I think. Nothing "grimdark" about it, more Yukari/classic-style horror (very different things).
As for my thoughts, I like it a bit more than Kishinjou or Kanjuuden (let's not talk about Shinreibyou). Per above, Matara is a grade-A badass, and we really needed a tough old final boss who's super chill, because we haven't had one in a pretty long time (returning to his roots!). Even Yukari doesn't sit on a throne like some god-emperor (she'd probably find it stuffy, wouldn't she?).
This is the best soundtrack he has ever done. EVER. Oh my GOD, this is phenomenal. I was largely meh about the last few soundtracks (barring a specific few songs), and then here comes this.
Having selectable seasons will always be a really big mistake. The seasons should have been each character's unique abilities, and could have even tied into normal firepower similar to Hujinroku/Chireiden; since they're separate from regular bombs, this makes much more sense.
Matara could have had a different outfit for Extra, but that's not a big deal. The Full season really should have had a different graphic for the shot though, it just reuses the Magic Missile graphic. I mean, he drew new bullets for Reimu and Marisa and all, why not here...?
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Bonus points for Matara's first theme clearly being based on Necro-Fantasy/-Fantasia; I like to call it Back-Fantasia. Then I read up on the translation, and found that she's a sage, a buddy of Yukari's, and a very Yukari-like character in general. I thought it was just cool, but it's probably intentional! However, her second theme is totally different, it doesn't sound like Necro at all. It has a bit meant to resemble a bit from her main theme, but that's it.
I get the feeling she's actually a youkai that became a god. Like Yukari, her entire existence is mostly made of mysteries. Her relationship with Yukari is probably a bit like Marisa and Alice's (the canon one, not the silly fanon one), or something; different existences, but pretty similar lives, and they probably bicker like old frenemies.
Her ability is clearly more "permanent". Yukari creates and destroys gaps as she pleases. We never hear about a "dimension of random gaps", but here is a dimension of random doors. Actual physical doors right on people's backs? Yukari would probably find that too grotesque.
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Finally, regarding something from the end of the previous thread: people need to be careful of how they view "elitism" so. It's one thing to appreciate new fans, but it's another to act like you know so much about the series when you simply don't. It's always been a BIG problem with Touhou in particular, especially when it comes to anything even remotely gameplay related. A lot of the actual honest-to-goodness elitists accuse me of this all the time, yeesh.
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I read a handful of the Thcrap translations and man. What a read!
part of me can't help but feel upset for the stage 5 bosses though? It feels like Okina treats them quite poorly, uses them as tools and, even if the whole idea of getting new servants was a lie, it's still kind of sucky she'd just casually toss them away for others.
... Oh god, it's like DDC's plot all over again!
This is over a week old, but am I the only one who never got the impression that Okina was lying about her motivations? She had other motivations too, sure, but that doesn't mean that her stated ones were lies. She was simply trying to kill 2 (3?) birds with one stone. Heck, her profile specifically talks about how the truth behind her many faces is that she's all of them at once. She has no hidden "true" self, she just has a bunch of different selves that combine together in chaotic harmony. She's supposed to be "the hidden god who hides nothing," so why is everyone assuming that she was lying about anything?
I also got the impression that she genuinely wants to free her servants out of pity, but it isn't her topmost priority, and either way she needs to find a suitable replacement first.
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It's been a while since I wrote that post, but I recall reading somewhere (not sure if during her Extra dialogue or one of her profiles) that she was just pretending to be looking for servants.
Granted, I also remember her being quite serious and insistant about having Cirno (and iirc Marisa too) becoming one of her new servants. So yeah, it's a bit ambiguous but I can quite certainly agree on you that she was probably trying to accomplish a few goals at once.
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It's been a while since I wrote that post, but I recall reading somewhere (not sure if during her Extra dialogue or one of her profiles) that she was just pretending to be looking for servants.
Granted, I also remember her being quite serious and insistant about having Cirno (and iirc Marisa too) becoming one of her new servants. So yeah, it's a bit ambiguous but I can quite certainly agree on you that she was probably trying to accomplish a few goals at once.
Yeah, looks like in Reimu's Extra she pretty explicitl calls it a lie. The one Extra I hadn't read all that closely... But still, it's clear in both Marisa and Cirno's that she's interested.
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Yeah, looks like in Reimu's Extra she pretty explicitly calls it a lie. The one Extra I hadn't read all that closely... But still, it's clear in both Marisa and Cirno's that she's interested.
From a quick read, it looks like she called it a lie right when Reimu was absent (as she was talking to herself), so we could take that at the truth. At the same time, maybe her interest in Marisa and Cirno stems from genuine interest after witnessing their potential.
Sorta like "I originally didn't want to replace them, but didn't expect such an interesting candidate to appear, so maybe I could give it a try".
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I interpreted it as "I do need to replace them sooner or later, but this incident really has nothing to do with that. I just used that reason as an excuse to show off." With Reimu's story she admits she was just using it as an excuse and that it wasn't her real goal. But with Marisa and Cirno's stories, she actually did find someone to replace them with, even if it was originally just an excuse.