Author Topic: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Game Over, Town Wins]  (Read 113249 times)

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #450 on: July 16, 2011, 07:44:22 PM »
- Players flip with Role Name and Alignment, but not an explanation of their role. Any exceptions to this are caused by roles.
^Also this.

I flip perfectly normally if I don't do anything.

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #451 on: July 16, 2011, 07:46:54 PM »
Yes, I don't have much dirt on you since you haven't done enough to be pursued without a report of some kind.  I resent that you think I haven't considered your defenses.  I spent all of last night going over the possibility you could be town and it didn't add up.  There was something wrong with the way you went about all of yesterday, and you having visited UK last night along with the scum claim today only confirmed my doubts.

But even now, the way you go about attacking me doesn't convince me that you truly think I'm scum.  You're just trying to self preserve and it's awful.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #452 on: July 16, 2011, 07:54:06 PM »
I already said you were my second choice for a lynch at the start of the day. Regardless, I don't care if I'm not convincing you that I think you're scum, given that if you're scum you already know it's the truth anyway, and I think the last line of your post is just an attempt to discredit my opinion on you in the eyes of the other townies. Your negative opinion on me doesn't seem to flow very well at all and it pretty much makes me feel that something is up with your attacks, unless you have ~extreme tunnel vision~. I don't buy that somebody could be 100% sure a player is scum off of a Day 1 case of all things.

OOO

  • Taka! Kujaku! Condor!
  • TaJaDor
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #453 on: July 16, 2011, 08:06:00 PM »
Still rereading.
Yuan, I consider the whole UK being Nightkilled and thus, no longer whiteknighting Depore to be a null-tell. Anyone could point to UK having flipped town, and said that the NK wouldn't make sense for Depore!Scum. The fact that you're constantly pushing that bit to the forefront actually turns it from an insight into fullblown WiFoM. Therefore, I'm disregarding it.

I actually had a lot of rage aimed at the entire Just Wagon, especially at Orwen, but then I learned that Just Only have 6 votes on him. It took a bit of gear grinding, but yeah, I ended up working much harder to go to my happy place last night than I needed to. The fact that it hammered early does make Mala being an Alternate Scum wagon more likely.

Also, Question for Iffritas, though I'm not sure it will help much, but do you have a tendency to read the end of night phase change before posting walls of text written overnight?

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #454 on: July 16, 2011, 08:09:38 PM »
I was not "100% sure" you were scum off of day 1 but I am now that I have a fake fakeclaim and a you visiting UK last night.


Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #455 on: July 16, 2011, 08:22:21 PM »
Moonin: I don't edit my overnight walls when I post them unless I have a really big correction to make (like an overnight scum death), at which point I'm liable to start over from scratch. Otherwise, you wouldn't have seen any mention of Navarus, given that we got our results early and I already knew UK was dead.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #456 on: July 16, 2011, 08:23:44 PM »
(The reason that I do not do this is so that people know what my opinions were on dead players before they actually flipped.)

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #457 on: July 16, 2011, 08:25:14 PM »
Also, I have no intention of demasking myself, but if you know who I am (it's kind of obvious :x), then you could probably go back and check some old games to see that I am not lying about this for the sake of preserving myself. I can think of a few times where I have done so in the past.

OOO

  • Taka! Kujaku! Condor!
  • TaJaDor
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #458 on: July 16, 2011, 08:48:22 PM »
No, that's alright. I still have a lingering town read on you. I don't think scum Iffritas would take the time to fake adding in something on the nightkill. Even scum doing a giant wall of overnight would probably reduce the opinion of the previous night's kill to "[Redacted] Whelp, s/he was killed, so we're not lynching him/her :V".

The biggest thing on the wagon yesterday that frustrated my was Miya switching to Just, and solidifying the wagon on him. Even though it turned out to be a good thing. Especially since a One lynch, at the time, could have been just as serviceable as the Just lynch, and (IMO) Slightly better than the Mala lynch the Just-sympathizers had to work with by then. The wagon hop also came at a time where people were just starting to talk about alternative wagon choices.

I'm also picking the side that I am because this whole counterclaim thing seems like it was planned. Scum probably had a redirection role, and safe in the knowledge that almost everyone had a nightaction, the redirector could easily have moved Iffritas' action to Target the nightkill, then have the redirector claim that they tracked her targeting the nightkill, which would then end with a lot of confusion on town's part, and especially on Iffritas' part as well. The fact that Iffritas was redirected makes this very suspicious.

##Vote: Miya

Also, I think the vig should shoot anyways. There's not that much WiFoM involved because either one: History-Kun is telling the truth, or two: Scum are giving town their free extra-kill.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #459 on: July 16, 2011, 08:49:54 PM »
Oh hey, something I missed. Miya, you said I thought you were scum all game, but this looks like hyperbole to me. The only time I had a strong scum read on you pre-claim was at the start of today, and I can only think of one other time in which I actually attacked you. Why the misrep?

Cut by Moonin.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #460 on: July 16, 2011, 08:51:52 PM »
Hrm...I completely forgot about what Moonin brought up. It was something I had even thought about when initially reading the post after my death...

This is becoming more annoying. I'm going to play Crawl for a bit and then maybe throw myself at this. I'll have a post out before I go to bed this evening.

##Unvote so nothing stupid happens. Also, I'll remind you all L-1 is NOT SAFE.

OOO

  • Taka! Kujaku! Condor!
  • TaJaDor
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #461 on: July 16, 2011, 08:55:14 PM »
Whoops. Sorry, the L-x thing didn't occur to me. Still wanted to get my vote on the board, though.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #462 on: July 16, 2011, 09:00:18 PM »
Hey hey hey HEY no quickhammers while I'm still catching up. I do you all a fantastic favor and replace in for someone everyone wanted to hear from and then you go ahead and forget me~ ;_; SEE IF I EVER REPLACE IN FOR YOU JERKS EVER AGAIN

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #463 on: July 16, 2011, 09:07:35 PM »
Also something really quick!

Navarus: Since you're back from the grave and Just isn't, what were you going to talk about here? If you already addressed it and I Just haven't caught up that far then feel free to Just link to what you said or whatever.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #464 on: July 16, 2011, 09:16:02 PM »
I did address it. Yuan was my secret suspect. That still holds. Honestly, I was kind of hoping I WOULDN'T be NK'd because I know she'd do it if she thought I suspected her. But, I guess there were other things involved.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #465 on: July 16, 2011, 09:48:51 PM »
Gotcha, thanks. I did see it on the way by after asking you about it.

Anyway, basically caught up, have written up some stuff but not nearly enough that I am ready to post just yet. Shouldn't be too much longer, though; most of it will be wrapping my head around Miya/Iffrita and writing up the results. Muchas gracias for waiting, everyone~ <3

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #466 on: July 16, 2011, 09:56:04 PM »
Votecount the 24th

Mala (2): Orwen, Xix, Book of the Past
Miya (4): One, Book of the Past, Iffrita, Moonin
Moonin (1): Mala
Iffrita (2): Yuan, Navarus, Miya

Depore (0): Iffrita
Orwen (0): Mikhail

Not Voting: Depore, Navarus

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
You have about 44 hours until Night 2.

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #467 on: July 16, 2011, 10:01:43 PM »
##Unvote for now, but I think it's pretty clear where I stand.
Miya, you're awfully quiet. I want you to talk a bit about the other players. Who else would you want lynched besides Iffrita? Same question goes for Iffrita, but I already have some opinions from her.

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #468 on: July 16, 2011, 10:33:08 PM »
I also don't like the clears on Xix and Depore and want him to explain them.
Also this.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #469 on: July 16, 2011, 11:03:35 PM »
DEPORE'S OPINIONS: THE MOVIE: THE GAME: THE NOVEL

Chapter 1


So after replacing in and reading the thread I have come to the conclusion that replacing into Mafia games is for suckers and masochists. I'm rather dizzy after that deluge of words, so if there's anything anyone addressed to Oldepore that they want me to also address, as aggravating as I am sure this will be, please restate it one last time. HOWEVER do keep in mind that I am not a mind reader and I do not know what Oldepore's thoughts so most instances of asking me "why did Oldepore _______" will get ignored. Or maybe I'll steal an ASCII shrug from one of Just's posts if I'm entertained enough.

Something puzzling is Orwen's end of Day 1 behavior, which is irritating because I want to throw him in my town pool due to the rest of his play being fairly logical. (Editor's note: It looks like Mikhail addressed some of the details here but his logic dovetailed differently from mine and I like my conclusion a lot better so I'm just going to leave it uncut regardless.) He was pretty gung-ho on Mala and started not liking the Just wagon here, but then there is this line of reasoning for swinging over to Just and does look fairly reasonable. What he said about roles and alignments not being linked is true! The major problem is that it's not the reason Just's claim was provable as town (well, non-scum, at least). Just's claim was provable as non-scum because ScumJust being able to zap a vote from TownAnyone means some sort of LYLO or MYLO announcement would come a day earlier than expected due to N scum having N+1 votes and N+1 town having N votes. This has nothing to do with roles and alignments being tied together, it's sheer game mechanic mathematics. The numbers are also unbiased, and this is important because Orwen does not have an excuse for missing this - Just pointed it out himself before Orwen drew the false conclusion. I don't know about anyone else in this game, but if I'm suddenly suspicious of the counterwagon to my preferred lynch due to something of theirs seeming to contradict the rules, I'd be sure to read over the rest of their posts just to be sure I didn't miss anything important.

Given all this, I think Orwen was looking for a reason to swing to Just rather than legitimately suspecting him and found that line of Just's and used it again him. Her. Whatever. Maybe this is because he wanted to keep his top "scum read" around. Or possibly because of a Orwen/Mala pair with a side of bussing? Not too likely but it's not like Mala is the squeakiest cleanest townie in the game. Or maybe for some other reason that I can't really speculate because lolspeculatingscumreasons. Point it is looks terrible in a very scummy way.

I know all that isn't related to the CLAIM CONFLICT FAMILY DICHOTOMY WHOAMG we have going on right now but I spit on your dichotomies and then drink their milkshakes. And then address them anyway because I am normally a stand-up guy and I feel bad about the spitting. (The milkshake less so.) Splitting here - opinion on Miya v. Iffrita in next post. I wanted to put this out there first, though, just to make sure it gets highlighted.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #470 on: July 16, 2011, 11:05:36 PM »
Chapter 2: Electric Boogalore

So both Miya and Iffrita have pretty much botched most of the day regardless of their alignments. Miya trying to promote herself with Just's flip is bad and scummy for reasons other people have already mentioned. Not opening her day with an Iffrita vote after spending a lot of Day 1 pursuing Iffrita is bizarre and her explanation for it is inadequate because there was no reason she couldn't just plant her vote on Iffrita at the beginning and then move it away if she heard something she found satisfactory. On the flip side, Iffrita conceding to the role claim request is very appease-y, even with the explanation she's provided for it, and she's been playing more defensively than Miya has been. For all that Miya's attacks have been questionable, at least she's being proactive where Iffrita has felt more reactive.

I think I will have to ##Vote: Empress Iffrita, because Miya's botches lean a little more toward being overzealous townie botches while Iffrita's play leans a little bit more toward cornered scum.

*

On to other people.

Due to satisfactory content, I have no particular desire to pursue Book or Mikhail, though the latter is not at all due to his role (which is a null tell). (Shame on you all for going over 450 posts without one of you making the pun that they read Book as town, by the way.) I am also not interested in pursuing Moonin because I think the timing of his claim makes a lot more sense coming from town than from scum.

Xix I am not 100% sure on but I lean town. I think his Day 2 has been better than his Day 1 and I would not be surprised at all if this is because Day 2 did not start with a runaway train half-feuled by joke votes that brought him to L-1. Mikhail's comments about his #73 ring fairly true, but I think some of Xix's Day 1 behaviour, including that #73, could be chalked up to aggravation.

One I am willing to extend some leeway for being new because both he and Oldepore were making a bunch of newbie mistakes and I know Oldepore, at least, was making them as a townie.

Mala is unimpressive. I would have voted her over Just yesterday had I been in the game (for whatever that's worth) and I really do not like how she grilled Iffrita right after Iffrita's claim (which was actually good stuff), veered off and voted Moonin instead (which is made all the worse by her grilling being good), and has yet to comment since. Granted that last one could be chalked up to outside circumstances, but that doesn't make me like it any more.

Yuan...does anyone else get the feeling she's trying to be a game leader? Not necessarily someone that tries to drag town around by the nose toward all the wrong voting targets, but someone that tries to have more of a hand in the flow of the game than normal? I am naturally wary of these types, because it's a good position to take to avoid suspicion. If I'm the only one that sees this then I'll be glad to ignore it and move on, and as much as I don't get a striking town read from her I have to admit my read may be colored because I don't like her playstyle. Wouldn't put her below Mala, but still most likely wouldn't put her above One, and definitely wouldn't put her above Xix.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #471 on: July 17, 2011, 12:06:17 AM »
Also she is slightly audacious in "divining" every second.
You can call me and we can divine the future together if you're feeling lonely.
@Demon Navarus #404: "Moonin is town, quit voting town Mala. Why Moonin over Iffrita, who's been handed to you on a silver platter?" Because I still think that Moonin is scum and I was organizing my thoughts in regards to Empress Iffrita.
Empress Iffrita's #402 is all kinds of terrible. She tries to take it back in #403 but it's still pretty bad.

Moonin is still scum by the way. FORM AN OPINION. IF YOU DON'T MAN UP I'M GOING TO RETRACT MY DIVINATION OFFERS FROM YOU. My #262. What was bad about it. What wasn't bad about it. Your #296. What do you think about One? Who needed to be scum in order for Depore's scumslips to be actual scumslips? What WERE Depore's scumslips in the first place? Stop sitting on the fence. In your entire Day 2 activity you've forgotten completely about the three players that you suspected throughout Day 1 in order to join in the fun activities of Princess Miya vs. Empress Iffrita. Please update your reads on One, Depore and myself and try not to sit on the fence about all three of us this time.
@Depore: Do you have any reason right now to believe that the Book of the Past is aligned with town? Did you have a reason to believe that the Book of the Past was aligned with the town during Day 1? What do you think of the old Depore's Yuan case? What do you think of the fact that the old Depore dropped all three of her previous cases to go onto the Yuan case?
I will state again that I dislike Empress Iffrita. #439 "I thought trying to get a two-person voting block going would be a lot more useful, especially if it could push my preferred case." Please die. Her willingness to fullclaim when "pressured" by somebody that she thought was scum is terrible. She did not question what information that Princess Miya may or may not have had. Instead she claimed the entirety of her role as well as WHICH ability she used and WHO she used it on. To me this looks absolutely terrible. She adds information to her claim as she sees fit. For example she only claimed that her neighbourizing ability fails if the target dies AFTER Demon Navarus is resurrected. She adds the information that her hider thing only provides the bulletproof for a single night AFTER Yuan calls it out as an overpowered cop ability. She stops making any cases at this point and votes for Princess Miya on the basis of "you, not me" in #439.

Why do you people not see that Moonin is trying to kill us all? How can you trust a guy with a hood on?
##FoS Empress Iffrita

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #472 on: July 17, 2011, 12:10:10 AM »
The information being added later is highly suspicious because of how willing she was to divulge information at first. She was leaking all of her abilities, her target and which ability she used to us yet only added in important details after information appeared that made her claim look bad.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #473 on: July 17, 2011, 12:17:30 AM »
@Mala: Yeah, uh, all the information you accused me of adding on was there in the first place. It wasn't obvious, but you should have been able to tell that it was what I meant. I'll point out the specifics if necessary.

Also, Not Me Over Me isn't a scumtell at all, what the fuck. I intend to sum up everything I have on Miya into a hefty post later in the day, but as is I'm kind of tired of writing :words: so you'll have to wait. The only reason I'm making this post right now is because everything you're saying is aggravating as hell.

Telling me to "please die" over how I personally would choose to use a neighbor role in any given game regardless of whether or not I am actually a neighborizer in this one makes me rage as a person rather than a player because it is basically a personal attack on how I use power roles. You didn't even explain what was wrong with what I said. Ugh.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #474 on: July 17, 2011, 12:23:57 AM »
I have a highly negative opinion of those that attempt to form miniature voting blocks and can see them as nothing but scum-motivated. Please do tell me how you hinted that your bulletproof only lasted for a single night. #343 "I am quite sure you can figure out how that turned out. Ugh." seems to me as if you were unable to communicate, not that the communications completely failed to activate. It will be up to the rest of the town to decide on the neighbourizing point.

Kick Hopper

  • Kick Hopper
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #475 on: July 17, 2011, 12:30:41 AM »
Scum pushing for a miniature voting block once does not mean that only scum will ever push for a miniature voting block. If talking about how I would consider utilizing a neighborizer to create one earns me a "please die", then apparently I'm going to be scummy in your eyes every single time I roll neighborizer on this site.

If I had been told I succesfully communicated with UK before her death, I would have claimed it. I thought the overall tone of "and I am quite sure you can figure out how that turned out. Ugh." implied that it failed because of her death.

... In hindsight I can honestly see why somebody would misunderstand my hider claim considering that I explained it really poorly, but I thought it would at least be interpreted as how it should have been based on how a typical hider is only kill-immune on the nights they're targetting somebody (although my role isn't really that close to the description of a typical hider, I guess). That, and becoming permanently bulletproof by copping somebody is a pretty unorthodox and partially broken role. <_<

All of this is the fault of a lack of clarity on my part, and I apologize, but being imperfect does not make me lying scum trying to constantly revise a roleclaim.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #476 on: July 17, 2011, 12:37:44 AM »
I have believed your roleclaim to be false since before your revisions so it is a moot point.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #477 on: July 17, 2011, 01:27:08 AM »
I think Book is aligned with Town because I found myself nodding along with his(?) posts on both days as I read them. As far as I have seen, he(?)'s been level-headed and thought things out, and not done much of anything for me to think he's been ill intended. Do you think Book is scum (or was and no longer is, which is a pretty amazing conclusion to arrive at)? Point at something if so, because I don't remember seeing anything that stood out.

In terms of the Oldepore Yuan case, I think they were just excited to see what they thought was a factual slip. I think it was more silly newbie play, jumping at the chance to make a case that was founded on something concrete than the rather nebulous-to-a-newbie concept of scumhunting.

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #478 on: July 17, 2011, 01:30:56 AM »
I know Iffrita and Miya have both read the thread since I last posted  (I'M USING LAST ACTIVE TIMES OH NOES) so I know you're both ignoring me. Please talk about which other suspects you would have lynched apart from each other.

Also, I would appreciate it if all players would enter the phrase "Bard is cute" into the thread, like so, even if in a standalone post. I assure you it has a pro-town purpose.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Cavalier of the Abyss Mafia [Day 2]
« Reply #479 on: July 17, 2011, 01:32:30 AM »
@Depore: So there was no reason for the old Depore to announce that the Book of the Past was town in her opinion posts when all of her other opinions consisted of what she thought was bad about other people? What do you think about old Depore forgetting completely about her previous three cases after picking up the Yuan case?