東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade (TH13.5) - Discussion

[TheTeff007]

Regarding the playable characters that might appear in the demo, how many characters appeared in the Demo of SWR? (And IaMP and Soku, for that matter?)

[violumi]

I really, really, really want to see Reimu's shine god be in a game.

Spoiler:

IT'S MIMA.

Spoiler:

I've always wanted to see Reimu's god, she it would probably be short-tempered.

[Hinacle]

Regarding the playable characters that might appear in the demo, how many characters appeared in the Demo of SWR? (And IaMP and Soku, for that matter?)

I think it was 4 characters in the demos.

[shadowbringer]

personal opinions, etc.

- the "dizzied" state seems to me like the equivalent to knocked-down states in other fighting games; I think that (if there's already damage scaling in combos) being comboed while knocked down wouldn't be much of an issue as people think, especially if there's either damage penalty on knocked-down characters (some fighting games have these), guts (the less health the character has, more damage is reduced) or less untech time (compared to non-off-the-ground combos
- as for the complaints about IaMP's declaration mechanic, first, it's very possible to deplete the opponent's hp before needing to declare (even if the opponent has declared), as long as you create enough opportunities to damage your opponent (I find the game fun even if I don't do bnbs consistently; the bullet-melee-graze mechanic compensates for that, at least for me), and has good enough positioning (sure, someone who knows bnbs will have to create less attack opportunities than someone who doesn't, but I think people worry too much about not being able to combo, even against opponents on the same level as themselves). Second, as one becomes more familiar with the opportunities for declaring, the "declaration minigame" becomes more fun; just try to gauge your opponent's damage potential (for example, if you know he/she doesn't do a bnb that would kill you, you can save your declaration for later than you would have to) and try to avoid doing a raw declaration (instead, try to plan ahead and knock your opponent down or hit him/her somewhere on the screen that gives you enough distance/time to declare; see if your opponent has a fast bullet or super, etc..)
- maybe there's more to "character building" than just super selection (even though super selection does change a character's gameplay considerably); lack of decks may just mean that you don't fill the card hands as you fill the super gauge (like in SWR/Soku)
- liked the trailer, however I'd like to see some more danmaku -- hope that it doesn't get the "story-mode only" treatment. Also there's an apparent lack of graze-melee-bullet RPS.

[Stuffman]

There's probably an equivalent of OTG moves in the game.

Marisa only had a little bit of life left when she got hit, so it might not do that much damage.

[Gpop]

Regarding the playable characters that might appear in the demo, how many characters appeared in the Demo of SWR? (And IaMP and Soku, for that matter?)

4 in all of them.

IaMP had Reimu, Marisa, Alice, and Youmu I believe

SWR had Reimu, Marisa, Alice, and Aya

Dunno if UNL had one

So by this pattern it's safe to assume that it'll most likely be Reimu, Marisa, Alice, some fourth popular character :V

[Stuffman]

So by this pattern it's safe to assume that it'll most likely be Reimu, Marisa, Alice, some fourth popular character :V

Alice might not be in this time, though.

...Oh god.



Why does the strong possibility of Alice not being in the game make me so uncomfortable

[Tsalop]

Alice might not be in this time, though.

...Oh god.



Why does the strong possibility of Alice not being in the game make me so uncomfortable

Alice is the semifinal boss...  She went on rampage as no one remembers Shinki.
Also as this game is more like teh STGs, there will be Extra mode where we fight Mima.
In that mode Mima will reclaim her position as the true goddess of Hakurei.

[Clarste]

Hey, to pick a precedent worse than "eight million", King James' Bible translated "three and four times" literally, which means "many times" in Hebrew, even when it only sounds like "a few times" to English ears.

Of course that's not a fair comparison, since KJV Bible prioritized textual accurancy above anything else. But "eight million" is also much less confusing.

By your logic, many things called "eight" or "nine" in Chinese / Japanese should also be translated as "many" or "all", because that's the meaning of "eight" or "nine" here. As a casual fan of linguistics, I find such language flavors worth preserving, especially and more importantly, when it can be easily understood by English speakers.

I also chose to not translate it as literally as "Speaker for the Eight Million", since not clarifying it as "gods", now that would actually confuse people.

But OK, "Speaker for the Milliard Gods" then it is.

Observations I received:
If the long-haired woman really is Kaguya, then the man near her should be Iwakasa, the man Mokou killed.

Since that gray figure is Nio, the tree beside him might be a peach tree. They together signify heaven.

It's not even pronounced the same way as "Eight Million". It's a completely separate word that happens to be spelled the same for some vaguely interesting linguistic reasons. However, because it means something completely different, such a translation is actually wrong. I usually see it translated as "The Myriad Gods" because "yaoyoruzu" happens to mean "myriad". That's like... not even a hard translation.

[Tsalop]

I wonder whether there'll be extra-mode.

[iK]

I wonder what faction Yuuka will be representing.

[Kilgamayan]

Yuuka represents the "killyoudead" faction.

[Tsalop]

Yuuka represents the "killyoudead" faction.

Nah... She has learnt a lesson from Medi and thus formed the "Sunflower Liberation Army".
Now she is spreading the wonderfull message of not to touch her sunflowers.

BTW: Wriggle is the high priestess of SLA.

[game2011]

Reimu, Marisa, Byakuren, and Miko in the demo will be nice.  If the roster really is determined by the plot, then Alice will most likely get the boot, as I don't see her fitting into the plot, unless it involves her wanting to get people to remember Shinki, but we all know that has no chance of happening.

BTW, am I the only one here hoping that those two fairy maids will have names and become actual characters, even if minor ones?

[cuc]

It's not even pronounced the same way as "Eight Million". It's a completely separate word that happens to be spelled the same for some vaguely interesting linguistic reasons. However, because it means something completely different, such a translation is actually wrong. I usually see it translated as "The Myriad Gods" because "yaoyoruzu" happens to mean "myriad". That's like... not even a hard translation.

You've learnt about on-yomi (pronouncing kanji using a sound originating from medieval Chinese) and kun-yomi (pronouncing with the equivalent "native" Japanese word), right?

Happyaku-man is on-yomi, and ya-o-yorozu is kun-yomi. Just look up "yorozu", and think about the "ya" in 3 certain young Touhou girls' names.

About whether it's a good idea to translate "eight million", here's a more fitting example:

 Chinese, Japanese, and a few other languages have the word "Ten Thousand Things" i.e. "everything there is". For several times I've seen translations of Chinese text, or Westerner-penned fiction that is going for a Chinese flavor, use "Ten Thousand Things" instead of "everything in the world". This makes me, a native Chinese speaker, feel rather awkward, but apparently those Western writers find it to be good lingustic color.

[Kilgamayan]

Alice

get the boot

Tee hee.

[Alicirno]

It'd be great to see Byakuren's superhuman Physical abilities to actually be used, other than in her own narcissistic spell card, of course. I'm also curious to see how Miko would play. I can't think of many styles for her other than "use object in hand and hit stuff". Maybe she'd be similar to Sanae and have summons? (Suwako/Kanako -> Futo/Tojiko, based on Chaotic Dance)

As for Alice, she'd only be involved if Marisa gets her to be involved.

[AJS]

I'm pretty sure Sanae will be there, representing Team Moriya, as one of the four characters unveiled in the demo.  I'm willing to bet that the other plot-important characters will be saved for later, and the fourth character will probably be like one of those characters in SWR who's only there for fanservice. 

I'm going to place my bet on Kogasa.

[Hinacle]

I'm pretty sure Sanae will be there, representing Team Moriya, as one of the four characters unveiled in the demo.  I'm willing to bet that the other plot-important characters will be saved for later, and the fourth character will probably be like one of those characters in SWR who's only there for fanservice. 

I'm going to place my bet on Kogasa.

Nooooooo, Koishi needs to be the fanservice~  I can actually picture her wondering into a random fight.

[Kosachi]

Nooooooo, Koishi needs to be the fanservice~  I can actually picture her wondering into a random fight.

Worst part is that she could proabably walk obliviously into a fight and likely still destroy everyone else

[Phlegeth]

Or maybe it'll be Kasen.  Her name starts with a K too.

[Clarste]

You've learnt about on-yomi (pronouncing kanji using a sound originating from medieval Chinese) and kun-yomi (pronouncing with the equivalent "native" Japanese word), right?

Happyaku-man is on-yomi, and ya-o-yorozu is kun-yomi. Just look up "yorozu", and think about the "ya" in 3 certain young Touhou girls' names.

About whether it's a good idea to translate "eight million", here's a more fitting example:

 Chinese, Japanese, and a few other languages have the word "Ten Thousand Things" i.e. "everything there is". For several times I've seen translations of Chinese text, or Westerner-penned fiction that is going for a Chinese flavor, use "Ten Thousand Things" instead of "everything in the world". This makes me, a native Chinese speaker, feel rather awkward, but apparently those Western writers find it to be good lingustic color.

I understand that its pronunciation isn't completely random or anything, but that's also never how a Japanese person would say "8 million". There is no linguistic confusion.

[cuc]

(Sorry for mistakenly posting an unfinished message. This has been fixed.)

It's not "not random", it's literally "eight million" in "native" Japanese.

"Ya" as the number "eight" is still in daily usage (hitotsu, futatsu, mitsu... yattsu). "Ya-o" as "eight hundred" can be seen in the everyday word 八百屋 yaoya (literally "house of eight hundred"), meaning "greengrocer, seller of vegetables and fruits". "Yorozu" (ten thousand) is no longer in common usage, but just as any sufficiently educated English speaker knows the words "thee" "thou" "ye", a Japanese speaker can recognize "yorozu".

I think I can now return to the argument that if 万物 can be translated by professional scholars and writers as "Ten Thousand Things", then "ya-o-yorozu no kami" can be translated as "Eight Million Gods".

[Tiamat]

Nooooooo, Koishi needs to be the fanservice~  I can actually picture her wondering into a random fight.

To be honest, I'm not sure how Koishi is supposed to function in a battle/goal/storyline that's based significantly on audience appeal. If anything, she seems kinda like its anti-thesis...

[Prime32]

To be honest, I'm not sure how Koishi is supposed to function in a battle/goal/storyline that's based significantly on audience appeal. If anything, she seems kinda like its anti-thesis...

Koishi is the new Suwako?

[game2011]

Koishi is the new Suwako?

Suwako is still involved in 12.3's plot, even if not having her own story mode, unless you meant something else...

[Tiamat]

Koishi is the new Suwako?

I... don't understand the analogy here ^^;


What I'm saying is that Koishi by nature is a youkai that isn't noticed by anyone. So how is she supposed to win the hearts and minds and faith of the human village (the storyline of Hopeless Masquerade, to the point where it's a game mechanic) when no one knows she's there in the first place?

Although I suppose that could be her story. IE, by winning the faith of human beings, they all start acknowledging that she exists.  Seems a bit... out there to me, though.

[Ikari]

I think no one is serious here xD Koishi just seems funny in perspective because unlike any factions, she wouldn't even have a goal; She'd waltz in, beat up people and happily walk away while twirling.

[AnonymousPondScum]

She'd waltz in, beat up people and happily walk away while twirling.

Ikari, even with Touhou having an actual plot arc now, I don't think you realize how little that narrows it down. :V

[Gpop]

Koishi can be the walking irony of the game :V